# Big Rig Transporting to Maine blueberries goes over



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Get in there and offer to help clean up


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

Apparently around 6pm last night, reports states they used water to disperse them and most were lost. Locals in the area that had traps set up may be surprised this morning. They did find 3 local beekeepers in the area to offer advice and any help. About 60 miles north of me.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Was this in a Newspaper article? I don't recognize the equipment. It almost looks like a tarp and not a net. I enlarged the photo as much as I could but couldn't tell.

It would take more than water to deal w/ all of those bees. Cutting the straps and handling each and every box and pallet by hand is what it would take. A crew of at least 6 well suited beekeepers.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/21/bee-swarm-shuts-down-i-95-on-ramp_n_5362476.html


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

On our local TV news, but yes in the news papers/articles. http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...ng-Live-Bees-Overturns-on-I-95-260027591.html here's one of them


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

This is so sad to see and not the first time I have herd of semi's carrrying bees being involved in an accident.

Just a shame for the loss of all those bees.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

What a huge loss for the hive owner and a shame for the bees, not to mention the driver and passengers who were badly stung. I wonder if the owner is a member here?

It looks like alot of the hives tipped over mostly intact. If the workers could have righted them, they would have been fine and could be saved. Such cool thinking and methodical work would be in short supply with 450 hives tipped over in a busy public location, though.


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## Millenia (Apr 8, 2014)

If it were cows or horses, everybody would care about the well-being of the animals, even if they were headed to slaughter. With bees on their way to do good things for the environment, nobody cares about the bees. Very sad to me.


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## Bob J (Feb 25, 2013)

Really hate to see this..... Feel so bad for the bees and the owner....


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

shinbone said:


> What a huge loss for the hive owner and a shame for the bees, not to mention the driver and passengers who were badly stung. I wonder if the owner is a member here?
> 
> It looks like alot of the hives tipped over mostly intact. If the workers could have righted them, they would have been fine and could be saved. Such cool thinking and methodical work would be in short supply with 450 hives tipped over in a busy public location, though.


I don't think we should assume that bees weren't saved. Even after what reporters reported. I have been to a roll over, once. We cut the straps and removed the net as much as possible and took hives and pallets apart and reassembled them as best we could so they could be reloaded once the truck was righted. It's a big job, but it's doable.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I haven't seen a 'bee truck' rollover, but lots of other truck rollovers. Usually a second similar truck is brought in and the cargo is reloaded on the upright truck. If it is a box van type trailer, the cargo transfer needs to happen before the rolled trailer can be uprighted. Often this is a hand labor job, but sometimes laborers may restack product on pallets on the ground that are then forklifted into the upright trailer. 

I don't see how it would be possible to load product back on the uprighted trailer. At the very least the DOT/troopers would insist on a very thorough mechanical _inspection _before that trailer could be used again. It could very well be impounded until liability issues are determined.

Even if the bees themselves are not salvageable, the hives themselves will have to be hauled away - you can't just leave the crap at the side of the road.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The one pic I've seen shows the trailer rolled against a guardrail, and not completely over. Many hives tumbled but it looks like most are still stacked. The problem is a the number of POd bees on the loose. If the ones flying can be calmed down or disbursed, and the truck rolled upright so it is safe to work on, likely the remaining hives can be righted.

Our local bee club has a good swarm alert system, with about 40 participants. Response to swarms is usually under an hour. I think it should be possible to include "mass casualty" responses, but it would be a big help if an emergency response plan were in place, with a "Memorandum of Understanding" in place with the local emergency response officials. They need to know who to call, and know they can count on a response.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't think we should assume that bees weren't saved.


No assumption. The newspaper article stated:

"_Beekeepers advised police not to attempt to round them up but to disperse them with water. Video of the scene shows firefighters spraying the wreck._"


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Then they used more than just water. Because that won't kill bees. It might get them off of the road, but it takes more than that to kill them. Besides, why would you try to disperse bees that are in hives when you are going to have to man handle those hives anyway? I wish I had been there.


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## Satch (Aug 15, 2012)

Probably put a little soap in the water unfortunately. Instant bee killer.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm going to be guessing here but wouldn't the spraying water simply disperse the bees already flying and encourage those still in hives to remain there? 

How on earth would the police "round up" flying bees anyway? With a big butterfly net?

Wayne


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## AstroZomBEE (Aug 1, 2006)

I don't recognize the equipment, colors, or netting myself. I do know that Harvey's Honey was on hand to help ferry away the equipment.


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## oldiron56 (Mar 9, 2009)

http://www.delawareonline.com/story...rrying-bees-overturns-on-95-on-ramp/9348173/# ........... It was pretty bad seeing all those bees in the air, and dripping off of the guard railing. most of the boxes were still together. We cut the straps and the wrecker slid the trailer and tractor forward and away. Harveys Honey brought a flatbed and fork lift and hand loaded. I told the firemen to spray the clusters on the guard rail, and mist the air, knocked alot to the ground. The hives were fully packed with bees, the guard rail shredded at least 75 hives. The bees were very agressive, cops were getting stung 400 feet away. I only had 1 extra veil with me. I was on the way to our bee meeting when I got the call from state police. I got there first, just WOW. I`m the short one in the video. Mark nailed it, that`s exactly how it went. DENRC wanted to spray them down with soapy water and kill what they could. I talked to SP, he called his supervisor , put a stop to that. I just got a phone call from one of the other keepers that came later. He said he over heard DENRC guy mention putting straw on the load and setting on fire, now this is a truck that is leaking fuel across the road and running into a creek through the woods. He told the guy from Harveys he only had 2 hours to load what he can, then they were gonna spray them with soap. Imagine that !,,,,,,,, Pete


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## juzzerbee (Apr 17, 2012)

Nice start to the report****SWARM ATTACK**** That's about as accurate as the 2 day forecast is on my local news station!!
I got to wondering last time this was a story in the news.....what do you think the cost is to insure that trailer of bees? juzzer


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

oldiron56 said:


> Harveys Honey brought a flatbed and fork lift and hand loaded. . . .
> 
> . . . He told the guy from Harveys he only had 2 hours to load what he can, then they were gonna spray them with soap.


It sounds like some of the hives were saved. Anyone know how many?


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

oldiron....I'd be out there today putting every empty hive I had in those woods! Gonna put some baited hives out??? Sad story for the bees. Could be a bonus for you, though!


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## oldiron56 (Mar 9, 2009)

Bees In Miami said:


> oldiron....I'd be out there today putting every empty hive I had in those woods! Gonna put some baited hives out??? Sad story for the bees. Could be a bonus for you, though!


 Those bees were mad, we don`t need that kind . I`d have to put a queen in those boxes in the woods and or brood. Their Queens got smooshed. I went back today and got a bunch of boxes full of frames. they sprayed them with AFFF foam. I got them home and hosed them real good. I wonder what is in that foam MSDS, any one know ? ,,,,,,Pete


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Mixing the bees up together and all that drama surely got the bees to defensive mode. If they were in their hives with their queens they may have been gentle bees. That scene was a mess. I'm glad that you were there to help Pete. Nicely done!!!!

Is this the MSDS 

www.naffco.com/MSDS/MSDS_FOAM_FIRE_EXTINGUISHERS.pdf


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

oldiron56 said:


> Those bees were mad, we don`t need that kind . I`d have to put a queen in those boxes in the woods and or brood. Their Queens got smooshed. I went back today and got a bunch of boxes full of frames. they sprayed them with AFFF foam. I got them home and hosed them real good. I wonder what is in that foam MSDS, any one know ? ,,,,,,Pete


I think firefighting foam is an animal tissue byproduct. At least it used to be.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I heard that the owners name is Ives. Not Tim Ives.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Do truckers that are not beekeepers often move bees? I figure you would want to have a bee suit at least when hauling them.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

There are different kinds of truckers who truck bees. Some sit in the truck. Most of the ones I have worked with do have their own suit and gloves. Some have smokers too. One guy, last Fall, had a beekeeper w/ him. The trucker stayed in the truck and the beekeeper helped me w/ the nets and straps and spread boards.

In the case illustrated in this Thread there is a trucker and two 20 year old individuals. I wonder if the trucker was hauling workers for the beekeeper. Either way, it's awfully hard to get a beesuit on while the semi is laying on its side or against a guardrail.


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## oldiron56 (Mar 9, 2009)

Virginiawolf, thank you, that`s it,. We were thinking the same thing about bee suits,,,,,,,,Pete


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Thank you for explaining that Mark. I always imagined that the driver of the truck with bees on it is the beekeeper that owns the bees. This article got me thinking more in depth on it and I wondered if that wasn't always the case. 

I agree that getting a bee suit on would not be easy in this instance. Car accidents will put you into shock even if you aren't drastically injured. I hope that these folks are all okay and can get things back to normal asap.

The beekeepers and people that came to help are heroes.

oldiron 56 yeah like how you could you fix anything with the load without a beesuit? but if the load doesn't have issues then it may be just no big deal to move them with no special equipment. Maybe the bee suits were in the compartments on the side and there was no getting to them. Safety first get out of the truck. Car/truck wrecks are scary. To get stung on top of that couldn't help.


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> I heard that the owners name is Ives. Not Tim Ives.



The hives came from Pollination Inc., truck was an independent. They eventually saved approx. 1/2 of the hives, cause of rollover stated as inadequate strapping and the load shifted during making the turn causing the rollover. Maine will get close to 80,000 hives sent up for blueberries.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

virginiawolf said:


> Thank you for explaining that Mark. I always imagined that the driver of the truck with bees on it is the beekeeper that owns the bees. This article got me thinking more in depth on it and I wondered if that wasn't always the case.


I think I am safe saying that of all of the loads of hives moved around the country on semitractor trailers rarely are the drivers the owners. Only a few outfits own hives and semis to move them on. And they still contract out to other haulers too.

Any trucker who trucks bees aught to have their own suit. Just like they have their own gloves and rain gear when they work other kinds of loads. Who knows where the suits were stored in the case being discussed. Could have been anywhere.

The articles and the newscasts said that the trucker and passengers were hospitalized because they were stung 50 to 100 times. "Hospitalized" and "sent to the hospital" are two different things in my mind. I well imagine that they were taken as a precaution more so than that they needed medical attention beyond observation. Not that I know, of course.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

"cause of rollover stated as inadequate strapping and the load shifted during making the turn causing the rollover"
Sounds unlikely to me. If that was the case the load would fall off, not tip the whole rig.
Do you think the driver learned anything from all of this? Like.... SLOW DOWN when turning?


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

Mr.Beeman said:


> "cause of rollover stated as inadequate strapping and the load shifted during making the turn causing the rollover"
> Sounds unlikely to me. If that was the case the load would fall off, not tip the whole rig.
> Do you think the driver learned anything from all of this? Like.... SLOW DOWN when turning?


In Delaware, the driver of the truck, Adolpho Guerra, 55, of Miami, and two passengers were taken to Christiana Hospital with minor injuries from the crash and 50 to 100 stings each, police said. Public safety officials said the men climbed out of the truck and ran down the road, covered with bees. There were also reports of passers-by also being stung, according to The Wilmington News Journal in Delaware.

Police eventually charged Guerra with failing to properly secure the load, which allowed the hives to shift to one side as the truck turned.

Steven Eisele, who owns Pollination US, said his company had been shipping bees for 20 years without any accidents. “This was our first incident,” he said.

The bees were being moved by Odilia’s Express Inc. of Miami Beach

For the best description and information of the incident found so far: 
http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/...aded_to_Maine_farms_crashes_in_Delaware_.html


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Pete,
What kind of load boards/spreader boards were holding the load? From the photos I see in the links it doesn't look like there were any or only just a few. So I can easily see load shift as the cause of the roll over. Taking the corner too fast shifts the load to a degree causing the trailer to tip and then the tractor goes too.

Early in my dealing w/ loading beehives on semis life I was unloading my own load and only working one side. I had most of the load off of one side when I noticed the trailer leaning to the still loaded side. I set some pallets back on the deck on the side I was working and went to the other side and unloaded that side. Could have been exciting. Could have been a mess.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Wait till dark? Humm that's when you get lots of stings...bees crawl find holes to get inside your bee suit you didn't know existed. Light the smokers put on a good bee suit and go to work restacking the hives in daylight! Using a pump up sprayer of sugar water would help but a firehouse..no way.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Seems to me that the beekeepers that came to the scene deserve great praise. Volunteers like these are a great asset. I hope Mr. Eisele at least sends his thank yous. 

Well done Pete and the others not known by name.

The Emergency Bee Response Crew should be Delaware's Beekeeper of the Year.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

So many loads of bees to move this time of year and so few good experienced drivers. As far as securing the load is concerned I think the beekeeper needs to take a degree of responsibility though I have always maintained that the driver has the primary responsibility for seeing that his load is secure, also straps need to be checked periodically for tension during transit. I don't like to see a load leave our loading yard with fewer than 12 straps plus secure cross strapping of the front and back rows. Unfortunately the quality of drivers I deal has gotten worse in recent years but beekeepers can get desperate when their bees need moved and I am as guilty as the next guy of taking whoever you can get with the only stipulation being that they have plenty of straps to secure the load. It's hard to find drivers that even have a bee suit. I own an extra bee suit for each set of nets for the driver to use while moving our bees. To me that is a no brainier.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Sounds unlikely to me. If that was the case the load would fall off, not tip the whole rig.


I dissagree. There is a jerk affect. The load shifts at some break away force but then it comes to the end of of the ropes (straps) which were undoubtedly loose. That stops the movement which results in a huge jerk force to the trailer. If the load was strapped tighter so it didn't shift the driver could actually go faster around a curve without flipping over. If the load shifts and it could be just two inches its a goner. Jim hit the nail on the head. Assuming the straps didn't break before the load shifted my guess would be that they weren't tight enough. That is something an inexperienced trucker may not have a feel for until he has had his first close call.

No matter how careful you are at loading the trailer there will be debris on the bottom of the pallets. Maybe even little stones. Just a short way down the road the debris gets ground off or pounded into the pallet and now the load is loose. The straps need tightening. All those beehives on top of each other will surely compact. And then there is the integrity of the hives themselves. Some of those hives are bound to be old and in some state of decay. The condition of the equipment should be on the beekeepers mind if you are going to ship large quantities long distances. They are your bees at risk.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

With regard to a poorly strapped load being partly responsible for a rollover, consider that while some flatbed / dropdeck trailers have wood beds, others have aluminum beds.










With a somewhat slippery bed like this, if _loose _straps allow the pallets to shift to one side, (partially overhanging the trailer edge, but not fallen off) the trailer will be unbalanced. If the driver is unaware that the load has shifted, then taking another curve too fast may turn out to have very unpleasant consequences.


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

Sad story! Hopefully this will be a wake up call to truckers carrying bees. Too bad the bees had to pay the price.

Hope a load like this is insured.

Thanks to the responding beekeepers! Just another example how beekeepers are heroes.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> I dissagree. There is a jerk affect. The load shifts at some break away force but then it comes to the end of of the ropes (straps) which were undoubtedly loose. That stops the movement which results in a huge jerk force to the trailer. If the load was strapped tighter so it didn't shift the driver could actually go faster around a curve without flipping over. If the load shifts and it could be just two inches its a goner. Jim hit the nail on the head. Assuming the straps didn't break before the load shifted my guess would be that they weren't tight enough. That is something an inexperienced trucker may not have a feel for until he has had his first close call.
> 
> No matter how careful you are at loading the trailer there will be debris on the bottom of the pallets. Maybe even little stones. Just a short way down the road the debris gets ground off or pounded into the pallet and now the load is loose. The straps need tightening. All those beehives on top of each other will surely compact. And then there is the integrity of the hives themselves. Some of those hives are bound to be old and in some state of decay. The condition of the equipment should be on the beekeepers mind if you are going to ship large quantities long distances. They are your bees at risk.


Brian, stop using your imagination. There are plenty of folks w/ plenty of real world experience on this Forum. Little stones on the bottom of pallets coming out of FL?

I have no reason to expect any straps to break when a semi loaded w/ beehives falls over. Those straps are rated at 10,000 lbs. The two inch ones anyway. And there isn't any way that the hives under those individual straps weighs 10,000 lbs or can apply that much force on that strap.

I do agree that the straps may well have not been as tight as they should have been and should have been checked whenever the trucker stopped for fuel or rest.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Apparently the driver had been charged with an un secure load. I imagine the beekeeper who owns the hives was the one who tied them down though.

Am I seeing this wrong? Are they hives in three deep? How could they get 450 three deep hives on a semi trailer ?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Graham, those aluminum decks aren't smooth. They are actually quite rough. Intentionally built so things don't slide on the deck. What I think happened was some of the pallets higher up in the load shifted, not the ones on the deck.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> So many loads of bees to move this time of year and so few good experienced drivers. As far as securing the load is concerned I think the beekeeper needs to take a degree of responsibility though I have always maintained that the driver has the primary responsibility for seeing that his load is secure, also straps need to be checked periodically for tension during transit. I don't like to see a load leave our loading yard with fewer than 12 straps plus secure cross strapping of the front and back rows.


I am talking about 4" nylon straps here. 2" straps work well for cross straps on the front and back but are a bit undersized for securing an 8' + high stack of pallets


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ian said:


> Apparently the driver had been charged with an un secure load.


Of course it was an unsecure load. It was laying on the side of the road while still attached to the trailer. The driver is responsible for what is on his truck. My trucker makes sure that there are enough straps and that they are tight to his satisfaction, even if I do help him strap the load. Ken straps each of the 17 rows and cross straps the front and back, 21 straps. Most of them are the 4" ones.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> With regard to a poorly strapped load being partly responsible for a rollover, consider that while some flatbed / dropdeck trailers have wood beds, others have aluminum beds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, those trailers are not slick at all. As Mark pointed out it's virtually impossible for the hives on the deck to shift. The aluminum has a gritty finish that is very difficult for things to slide on. It's the upper hives that shift and cause the imbalance.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> I am talking about 4" nylon straps here. 2" straps work well for cross straps on the front and back but are a bit undersized for securing an 8' + high stack of pallets


I haven't paid attention to the weight rating on those 4" wide straps Jim. What is that rating? 20,000 lbs?

I guess I missed the detail that this was a drop deck trailer. I didn't look that close. But, that may be how they got that many hives on.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> I haven't paid attention to the weight rating on those 4" wide straps Jim. What is that rating? 20,000 lbs?


Don't know but they ain't gonna break. I'm betting Graham will give us the specs.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have seen broken straps on the side of the highway. And that doesn't happen from stress placed on the strap by the load it is holding down. It happens when the end of the strap is loose and gets under a wheel which pulls it so tight it breaks.

Straps should be inspected by the driver and worn ones discarded. That's just routine. If the driver doesn't do it, Inspectors at weigh stations will find them sometimes and ticket the driver. Un less they allow him to replace it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Of course it was an unsecure load.


As it was reported ....


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Rightfully charged. What else would they charge him for? Littering?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Loads do slide on trailer decks, but Mark's scenario may be correct. Not beehives, but certainly shifted ...









Note that not only has the load shifted on the deck, but also the upper part has shifted more than the lower portion sitting directly on the deck.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> I have no reason to expect any straps to break when a semi loaded w/ beehives falls over. Those straps are rated at 10,000 lbs. The two inch ones anyway. And there isn't any way that the hives under those individual straps weighs 10,000 lbs or can apply that much force on that strap.


Mark do you think an 8 pound sledge hammer imparts an 8 pound force on a stake in the ground when you hit it? It could be a 100-180 pound jerk force depending on how hard the ground is and who is swinging the hammer. Energy is dependent on acceleration or de-acceleration in this case. The straps are woven, probably nylon today and stretch like crazy which actually is a help. There is no doubt in my mind that a guard rail could slice them like rubber bands under tension.

They should be checked after the second toll both and the stop recorded in the drivers log book.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Rightfully charged.


I agree. Bet that beekeeper wishes he stacked those hive a bit tighter. Does insurance cover the cost if the driver is negligent ?

And are those three deep?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Yes, it's important to get hives tight.......and also to strap them. 

http://s470.photobucket.com/user/jimlyon/media/2013 Texas/1400765962_zpscc39c841.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

This happened really recently to ummmm, errrr, a guy I know. Guess he thought he could get by with repositioning his truck about 100 feet without bothering with straps.....at least that's what he told me.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't know what insurance covers, really. I don't want to find out. Maybe I should have asked my Insurance Agent who just called me because he heard that a semi rolled over here in NY. I don't know that one did though. I think someone may have told him about the one in DE and the story got mixed up.

The trucker's insurance and the beekeeper's insurance, according to my Agent.


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## Ink (Feb 12, 2014)

Load shifting is a very dangerous and very real thing that happens in truck transportation. I don't care how rough of a deck a flatbed has, unless there are 2-3" spikes coming out, that load will slide around. Straps stretch and loosen at times. Sometimes too tight, you hit the right bump and they crush your load a little and loosen up. Too loose and you're off to a bad start anyway.

And by the looks of the trailer, it wasn't a dropped deck or low boy / landol or anything. Just a regular flatbed. Those are high to begin with and you start staking heavy hives just a shift of a couple inches can change the center of gravity drastically. Hit the wrong bump and you're in a carnival ride !

How do I know? 20+ years specializing in repairing only large commercial vehicle accidents.  Though I am sure any truck driver can add more insight than I can.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> Yes, it's important to get hives tight.......and also to strap them.
> 
> http://s470.photobucket.com/user/jimlyon/media/2013 Texas/1400765962_zpscc39c841.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
> 
> This happened really recently to ummmm, errrr, a guy I know. Guess he thought he could get by with repositioning his truck about 100 feet without bothering with straps.....at least that's what he told me.


Wow, dejavu all over again. Yup, that'll happen. What's that saying? "For the want of a horse the war was lost." or something. I try to get away w/ all sorts of things which come around to bight me you know where. I bet he will try that again, ya think?

Coulda been worse.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ink said:


> How do I know? 20+ years specializing in repairing only large commercial vehicle accidents.


Not to be too critical of others, but, was that load properly secured to begin with? I didn't see what I would call load boards or spread boards and these hives didn't seem to be 6 to a pallet. Anybody on site have anything to say about that?


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

Another good reason for having 6 hives per pallet. Every hive gets a strap and there are no gaps side to side. No v-boards needed. 48 foot load-12 pallets-24 straps-all tight, not just snug as they have to be when 4 to the pallet to keep from tipping hives


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Thermwood said:


> Another good reason for having 6 hives per pallet. Every hive gets a strap and there are no gaps side to side. No v-boards needed. 48 foot load-12 pallets-24 straps-all tight, not just snug as they have to be when 4 to the pallet to keep from tipping hives


Nice well secured load for sure. Your point is well taken though the problem of not being able to tighten your pallets with four ways is completely eliminated when laying 2x6's on top of each row. The bottom line is loads need to be properly secured and when they are, loads will not shift regardless of which configuration you use.


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## oldiron56 (Mar 9, 2009)

The truck driver kicked the wind shield out and they went running down the hiway. Mark no spreaders just straps still attatched we had to cut them for the wrecker to pull the whole rig forward and away so they can right it. I lent a suit to the tow guy and he still took some hits. The water was the ticket, calmed them down a lot.A lot of the boxes were old and the crush factor might have helped to loosen the straps. The migratory lids were smooth also, no front or back cleats. Another beek Carl Roberts climbed in the cab to get the bill of laden to find out who owned the bees. Another beek Paul Dill called them and lined up Harveys to collect the bees for free. Harveys done a good job had a crew there with a rollback and a fork lift. The driver was avoiding the toll on 95. get off before the state line the get back on, costly .Dr Debbie Delaney came to the sceen and talked to the powers that be and got the crew the time to load what ever is salvaged. DENRC wanted them destroyed, so they could clean up the fuel spill. Another beek from our club took pics, I don`t know how to post hem here so I`ll send them to one of you as an e mail you can post them ,,,,Pete


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Spread boards could of helped. Spending $75.00 could have helped too. I have heard that Tolls on 95 for semis is steep compared to 4 wheelers. Seems like such costs would be figured in to the trucking bill. Not that someone wouldn't have tried to avoid the toll anyway.

I knew you had to cut the straps, because there were no ratchets showing on the side of the trailer that was up.

What I notice when I strap my F-450 load using load board or 2X6s is that the side that has the ratchet strap can be tight and the other side not or not as much. Because the ratchet is pulling down on the strap as well as applying tension to the strap. I some times think about running another strap back across the load to pull down on the other side across the board.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian and Ink, perhaps you could delve into the physics of strap test weights? I know I don't know all there is to know. In my mind a set of straps under the conditions in this case should not have broken, unless they were cut by the guardrail as the trailer laid over on it.

In my mind the semi was probably traveling at 25 to 35 or maybe 40 miles per hour and the driver noticing what was happening did what he could to stop it tipping over by slowing down as quickly as he could. I could see this all happening quite quickly yet almost seeming to be in slow motion.

Isn't a strap or a rope or a fishing line strongest under tension than it is in a quick jerk or snap?


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## oldiron56 (Mar 9, 2009)

If someone emails me at [email protected] I have pics of the cleanup,I will forward them, ,,,,,,,,,Pete


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Pete, did this happen in Franklin Co, DE? My Insurance Agent called me wondering if I knew about a bee spill in Franklin Co.,NY and he and I figured that the person who told him got things mixed up. But maybe there isn't a Franklin Co, DE.


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## oldiron56 (Mar 9, 2009)

It was in New Castle County,,,,,,,Pete


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I used to do material testing, and I've had straps break.

Every camlock strap I've ever had break (3 so far?) did so when going around a right angle corner, usually on a wooden crate. Each one was also old, and being used to strap a crate to a hand truck (not the intended use).

I tested some 1/2" nylon rope used as aircraft tie-downs. I believe the stated strength, new, is about 6000 lbs breaking load, and we verified this on new rope. We also tested various pieces that had been out in the weather. It is white when new, but the longer it is exposed to sunlight and weather, the greyer it becomes. It also loses strength. A year takes away about half the strength. The piece the investigation was focussed on was very grey and down to about 1000 lbs breaking load. A plane was destroyed when it broke during a windstorm.

The question might not be the rated strength of the straps, but the deteriorated condition, and the failure probably occurred at an edge.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Any idea why none of the straps on the bee truck broke?


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Photos of the wreck from oldiron56:


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Do you think the driver learned anything from all of this? Like.... SLOW DOWN when turning?


Not that it will help him much; I don't imagine truck drivers' job prospects are very sunny after rolling over a customer's load.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What the next guy doesn't know won't hurt the drivers prospects. Depending on how independent he is. I hope the trucker learned a number of things.
1. Make sure the load is secure.
2. Check the straps when stopping for fuel, food, and sleep.
3. Don't try to avoid tolls just to save some money.
4. Make sure the load hasn't shifted before getting on the on ramp to the highway.
5. Strap each row using load boards of some sort.
6. Use a beesuit and gloves.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> Any idea why none of the straps on the bee truck broke?


Just a guess, but the investigators will figure it out. Maybe the load was properly secured and only "shifted" as a result of the accident. If the driver took the ramp too fast, it wouldn't be the *first* time that has happened, or the last. If the truck had a working black box, that should come out. I've got a dashcam that records g forces ... even that would catch excessive lateral acceleration.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Isn't a strap or a rope or a fishing line strongest under tension than it is in a quick jerk or snap?


Let me try to verbalize in the hopes of making it clearer.

These straps undoubtedly have a rating which is a working strength, maybe 1/2 or 1/3 the breaking strength. That is so you have a factor of safety. Like what was said the strap will deteriorate with age and use. OSHA will make you replace straps that are used on cranes on timely basis. I don't know if there is any organization checking on truckers.
A strap or a fishing line's strength is what it is. It doesn't get any stronger but a quick jerk or a snap instantaneously increases the force drastically. I tried to give you a visualization with pounding a stake in with a hammer. A fish will jerk heck out of a line and it is the fisherman's skill along with the type of fishing pole that will smooth out the jerk below the lines limit.

As I said, I suspect the strap didn't break. It got loose, the load shifted it came to the end of the rope and the jerk rolled it over. Once the load moved a fraction of an inch there is nothing the driver can do. Was the driver going too fast, did some of the boxes or pallets crush or was the load loose to begin with? Hard to say from my armchair.

Mark, Without having a roller on the edge of the strap, or a big radius on the end of the boards you want to use the tension will be highest on the side you draw it down until you shake a little going down the high way. That is why I say check the load on the second toll both. You don't want to wait for a rest area. It might be hours before you get tired in the beginning of a trip. City roads and country roads will have enough shake to loosen the straps.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Phoebee said:


> I've got a dashcam that records g forces ... even that would catch excessive lateral acceleration.


got a make and model and a recommendation, I have been looking for a good one but when I read the comments about each, I talk myself out of them. thanks


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

melliferal said:


> Not that it will help him much; I don't imagine truck drivers' job prospects are very sunny after rolling over a customer's load.


Nope... An accident like this is a career ender. Not because nobody will hire him, but because nobody can afford to insure him.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> got a make and model and a recommendation, I have been looking for a good one but when I read the comments about each, I talk myself out of them. thanks


What does this unit do for you?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> What does this unit do for you?


a dashcam, the kinds I have been looking at take pictures day and night, record the time, your speed, and you gps location. In an accident they can be used as evidence, also good to get other peoples lic. plates if needed, they also record sound, so like the next time you get stopped, you could let us listen to the conversation with the cop.

In my case, returning from delivering honey last year, about 300 ft from my driveway a guy speeding around the corner on the wrong side of the road, I managed to move the truck over far enough but he clipped my brand new trailer, took out both tires. He started to take off but I jumped out and got his lic #, called the cops, he admitted that he was on the wrong side of the road, the cop said and I quote "you know you could tell me the trailer was across the center line and it was his fault" nice NY cop. I went home got the camera, took pictures of the tires on the trailer, wheels bent so that they couldn't possible hold air, then went back and took pictures of where the wheels dug into the tar with a tape measure in the picture showing that My tires were 4 feet on my side of the center line. When I called his insurance co, they said there was some dispute as to who was at fault in the accident, I sent them my pictures and collected the money for the damage. Now getting it fixed was a whole other experience as the trailer has an aluminum frame that no one up here would look at, had to drive the trailer to N.H. and they inspected it.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> What does this unit do for you?


as an aside, Just once I want to video some of the bikers that ride 3 abreast down the road, and wont move over and give you the finger and get a cop to give them a ticket for violation of the law. My wants are very small in life:scratch:


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Photos of the wreck from oldiron56:<<

Wow and yikes... I can feel those crawlers from here!!!


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

wildbranch2007 said:


> got a make and model and a recommendation, I have been looking for a good one but when I read the comments about each, I talk myself out of them. thanks


Here's one NEGATIVE recommendation ... there's a really cheap one which I last saw for around $21: It is best used as a dummy camera. It hideously unreliable and the lens deteriorates in sunlight within 3 months.

The one we use now works better, but has some quirks. It occasionally gets in a "boot loop" when the car is started ... turn it off for 2 minutes and start it again. Instead of coming with a lousy manual with incomplete instructions in bad English like the first camera, it comes with NO MANUAL AT ALL!. There are some YouTube videos showing how it works (but with no words). It has three impact sensitivity levels: Too Sensitive, WAY Too Sensitive, and Just Plain Nuts. But it is holding up and makes excellent HD video. The problem is that most of the early models are not "name brand". None of the reputable camera companies or auto product companies were making them, and the market in Russia was driving the development. My good one has a Panasonic camera element but the rest of it is a mystery. I paid $180 for it. 

Just scanning the availability, it looks like some name brands are getting into the market now, including Cobra, Garmin, and Magellan. This is a BIG change from last year, so any recommendation I make on what I bought is last year's news. I'd stay away from mystery brands and don't expect much for less than $150.

I am collecting a series of clips for which the caption will be: 'IDIOT DRIVER. PUBLIC ROAD. DO NOT ATTEMPT."

A clip of me avoiding a skunk shows a Y-axis acceleration of about 1/4 g as I swerved.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> What does this unit do for you?


Our motive for getting one is a neighbor who accused another neighbor of running them off the road. Specifically, a woman in an SUV accused a man on an ATV of forcing her off the 1-lane association driveway and on to the shoulder. These false accusations became a habit with her, so several of us have gone to dashcams in self defense.

Police use them to document that they use correct procedure. Truckers use them in case some 4-wheeler cuts them off and slams on the brakes.  In Russia, there is a cottage industry of causing a wreck so you can get money out of the other guy. But the side effect is that you are collecting evidence against YOU if you are driving poorly, so hopefully it makes you a better driver.

And then there was the bald eagle that swooped over the hood of the car one day ....


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Phoebee said:


> Just scanning the availability, it looks like some name brands are getting into the market now, including Cobra, Garmin, and Magellan. This is a BIG change from last year, so any recommendation I make on what I bought is last year's news. I'd stay away from mystery brands and don't expect much for less than $150.


thanks I was looking at the garmin and a couple of others, I had found one that seemed the best but didn't bookmark it and can't remember what it was called.


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## oldiron56 (Mar 9, 2009)

You were right Mark there were 2x6 on top I didn`t see. I asked Carl today and he said there were. Also I was told at the site that Harveys were getting the bees for free, that wasn`t the case, they took them to a holding yard and the owner took them from there to Maine last night they arrived there today to assess the damage. That was in our paper today,,,,,,,,,,,Pete


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