# Apivar



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It looks like buying 10 to 49 Apivar 50 packs a colony treatment would run you $4.68 per brood chamber. Seems a bit pricey, but is it if it works well? Less mess and safer to handle than MAQS. And MAQS aren't all that less in cost per recommended treatment.

What do you commercial guys think? I'm thinking about installing them in colonies in the south in April so I can take them out well before honey supers need to go on in NY.

Maybe this time of year OA dribble is the way to go?


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## Jon B (Apr 24, 2013)

I used them last year and they worked great. I recommend leaving them in the hives about eight weeks.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

I've used Apivar a number of times and have always been satisfied with the performance... I've heard from a number of sources that the full 56 day treatment is important though as it has little to no cell penetration.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Maybe this time of year OA dribble is the way to go?


Mark, I think you missed the window for this. I'm betting that they are brooding up big time.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Poss bull, poss bull, Dan.

Are they approved for use in SC and NY?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

One reason ( out of many ) I switched to single hive body management was to increase the efficacy of the Apivar treatment. I will treat the single hive body with two strips. Cheaper treatment than in doubles and the bees are forced onto the strips.
Apivar is a good mite treatment.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Maybe this time of year OA dribble is the way to go?


Mark, you've missed the boat on OA dribble. It does destroy some brood and doesn't do a thing for the mites in the brood ... where many are breeding if you have em. OAV is too time consuming for a commercial guy this time of year as you'd have to do it multiple times to catch the mites as they are emerging with the brood. Apivar is good way to go..... but as you said, costly.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Allen Dick is just discussing this on his diary at honeybeeworld.com


sqkcrk said:


> It looks like buying 10 to 49 Apivar 50 packs a colony treatment would run you $4.68 per brood chamber. Seems a bit pricey, but is it if it works well? Less mess and safer to handle than MAQS. And MAQS aren't all that less in cost per recommended treatment.
> 
> What do you commercial guys think? I'm thinking about installing them in colonies in the south in April so I can take them out well before honey supers need to go on in NY.
> 
> Maybe this time of year OA dribble is the way to go?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And what does he write?


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## mdadams1 (Apr 17, 2012)

If you applied apivar in September could you consume the honey this spring?

Mike Adams


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What honey?


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## mdadams1 (Apr 17, 2012)

I saved all of my honey last fall for the bees and their is some left...

Mike A


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

I am going to vaporize OA tommorow. I'll see how it works.


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## red (Jan 15, 2013)

I made 45 splits on march 7th. I put two stips per single deep box. When I did the splits I could see mites, and lots of them on the bees. I checked on march 22nd for my queen take and didn't see any mites. I hope to do a mite test as soon as the weather straightens up.


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

I was seeing way more mites then I have before on bees and drone brood this spring. im thinking of doin oa dribble on the new splits that I made from a cell and 2-3 frms brood. the new queen will just have started laying and the old brood should be mostly hatched. im mostly worried about hurting the bees that are left that have to live until the new queens brood starts hatching. and I want the temps to not be so hot and things are heating up in tx. 

why do you say it is to much work to do a dribble for a commercial. it seems like a commercial is in his hives every week so you just carry the sprayer and give them a dribble every time your in the yard this spring. between checking for queen right, feed and adding supers, it seems like you could easily put a dribble on every hive once a week. but can the bees handle that?

im saving that expensive apivar treatment for august when you really need the silver bullet. it seems like for me if you split them down and requeen with a cell it buys you a good amount of time but if you don't treat when the honey is pulled in early august, you can kiss them good by.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

mnbeekeeper said:


> why do you say it is to much work to do a dribble for a commercial.


I'm not sure who said it was too much work for a commercial. From everything I've seen, it is the treatment of choice by commercials during periods of broodlessness. Inexpensive, effective and easy to do.

Edit: I see the too much work comment. It was in reference to periods where there is brood and would require multiple treatments.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

beemandan said:


> I'm not sure who said it was too much work for a commercial.


I mentioned that OAV was too time consuming this time of year (due to the need for multiple treatments to treat mites coming out with emerging brood.) 
Dribbling and OAV only kill phoretic mites. Dribbling hurts brood, OAV does not)...but again OAV this time of year would require multiple treatments....too time consuming for a commercial ..


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Too much work for a commercial outfit to do OA vaporization, not dribble. That's what was said.


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

Ian said:


> One reason ( out of many ) I switched to single hive body management was to increase the efficacy of the Apivar treatment. I will treat the single hive body with two strips. Cheaper treatment than in doubles and the bees are forced onto the strips.
> Apivar is a good mite treatment.


I used 2 in my singles last fall and it worked great. Trying to decide what to alternate with when they get back from CA. Any suggestions?


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

ok, so what are you going to do mark??


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Chip Euliss said:


> I used 2 in my singles last fall and it worked great. Trying to decide what to alternate with when they get back from CA. Any suggestions?


Like Mark suggested, OA during your broodless period will work. I have not started OA treatments but considering it this spring as I put the bees out.
and the only reason why I am considering an alternative treatments it to bring in somekind of treatment rotation.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ian I would caution you to approach an OA dribble in the spring. This is definitely a task for the boss. Bees coming out of the building are old and tired and OA dribble essentially tires them out. I understand the need to use an alternative treatment but...

One season in the fall, I had one foreign employee who probably applied more than the recommended dosage ( I can't keep watching them all the time, cause I got work to do) and come next spring the line of pallets he did were pretty much wiped out. So instead of bees on the ground I had inprints on the grass of where the pallets used to be. I cannot be sure but I think he overdosed them. He is no longer with us.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

hmmmmm.......

soon as I get a great idea in my head, I hear a story like that which put me back into that "I dont know what to think" area...


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

Ian said:


> Like Mark suggested, OA during your broodless period will work. I have not started OA treatments but considering it this spring as I put the bees out.
> and the only reason why I am considering an alternative treatments it to bring in somekind of treatment rotation.


When I get my bees back from CA, they are wall-to-wall brood (6-8 frames of brood out of 9 frames), so OA may not be the best in my situation since it works by contact. I've used apiguard in the spring and it seems to work ok but I'd try MAQS if I could find the 'recipe' for singles versus doubles. I may just cut the recommendation by half and see how it works on a handfull of hives before I treat them all.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> $4.68 per brood chamber


9.36/colony. To me thts money. Spring+fall= 2 trtments=a whopping $18.72!!

paint Stick of traz in the entrance keeps mites down for 40 cents/ hive x 3 spring= $1.20. Then a fall oa dribble and good nutriton in the fall seals it up. But of course its no longer appropriate to mention such treatments now adays even thou it has worked well for the last 12 years.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

RAK said:


> 9.36/colony. To me thts money. Spring+fall= 2 trtments=a whopping $18.72!!
> 
> paint Stick of traz in the entrance keeps mites down for 40 cents/ hive x 3 spring= $1.20. Then a fall oa dribble and good nutriton in the fall seals it up. But of course its no longer appropriate to mention such treatments now adays even thou it has worked well for the last 12 years.


Amitraz can be quite toxic. Do you simply dip a paint stuck in Amitraz or dribble on a fixed amount and leave it in the entrance for how long? Mitaban is liquid Amitraz.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mnbeekeeper said:


> ok, so what are you going to do mark??


I'm gonna buy and use Apivar strips. Ordering them today.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

RAK said:


> 9.36/colony. To me thts money. Spring+fall= 2 trtments=a whopping $18.72!!
> 
> paint Stick of traz in the entrance keeps mites down for 40 cents/ hive x 3 spring= $1.20. Then a fall oa dribble and good nutriton in the fall seals it up. But of course its no longer appropriate to mention such treatments now adays even thou it has worked well for the last 12 years.


I don't use the same treatment material Spring and Fall. That builds mite resistance to the material.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

jean-marc said:


> Ian I would caution you to approach an OA dribble in the spring. This is definitely a task for the boss. Bees coming out of the building are old and tired and OA dribble essentially tires them out. I understand the need to use an alternative treatment but...
> 
> One season in the fall, I had one foreign employee who probably applied more than the recommended dosage ( I can't keep watching them all the time, cause I got work to do) and come next spring the line of pallets he did were pretty much wiped out. So instead of bees on the ground I had inprints on the grass of where the pallets used to be. I cannot be sure but I think he overdosed them. He is no longer with us.
> 
> Jean-Marc


I believe I remember that time. I was there with you and said employee. I remember later on you told me that you knew the pallets you did, the pallets I did, and the pallets he did. I think he had a lot on his mind that day because I remember you also had that plump young red head out untying and tying up the pallet covers and every time she bent over half her butt was showing. 

That being said, you had shown me the proper way to administer the OA dribble. It's helped keep the mites at bay. I like the apivar though. I think after a treatment with apivar you could almost go through the whole year with out using anything else. 

I wonder though, If I'm treating in late summer early fall with apivar in my double broodnests, is it still advisable to put 2 strips in the top? It doesn't make much sense since the top box is all honey. I would think that 2 strips in the bottom box, where the last of the brood is being reared, would be sufficient rather than 4 strips per double.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The label says to use 1 strip for 5 frames of brood(FoB) or less, to use 2 strips for 6 to 10 FoB, 3 strips for 11 to 15 FoB, and 4 strips for greater than 16 FoB.


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## chickenia (Apr 13, 2012)

I had surgery last early summer, and didn't get to do too much with my hives. I know it was late to be putting Apivar or any kind of treatment on the hives in October but I had a kind friend to come on a warm day and put Apivar on them. In less that the recommended time, the weather turned COLD, and couldn't get into the hives to take out the strips. They were taken off this early spring and not a mite to be found. I have four hives that were treated, and three VSH hives added. Would it be good to rotate treatment with Apiguard or do another this fall with Apivar>Thanks so much!!!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

treat is your threshold is met, but as you say, no mites found in the spring, so Im guessing the levels will be low by fall


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## chickenia (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm sorry....are you saying, rotate Apivar with Apiguard this fall?????


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not a safe assumption to make Ian. Just because one doesn't find any when they check in the Spring, however they check, that doesn't mean there are Zero mites in the hive. Just that they were not detected. Check again the same way and you might find one or two.

By Fall, three or four months later, those mites have gone through as many brood cycles as the bees have and you can have a level detrimental to the colony's ability to last the Winter. 

So, if you don't treat unless you determine that the mite load warrants it the only way to know whether that level has been met is to check again early enough that a treatment can be applied.


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

I have been very impressed with Apivar and the colonies I treated last fall still have no mites on them. Just checked today. However, some folks have been trying to convince me to use an Australian medication, and given the cost, it might be worth it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How do you check? What method?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Not a safe assumption to make Ian. Just because one doesn't find any when they check in the Spring, however they check, that doesn't mean there are Zero mites in the hive.


I agree. Im assuming the hive is being tested correctly
I assumed because usually when there is a very low mite pop in the spring, they cnat muster any devastating levels by fall, assuming that the testing method was accurate.

I use a shaker, and survey many hives. I like this method of testing as it seems to be gather enough information from the hives to form an accurate picture. 

When I usually treat in the spring with Apivar, I usually dont treat the following fall.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

chickenia, what kind of testing are you doing when determining "no mites"?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I get these Apis mixed up. Apigaurd is the gel, right? Apivar is the strip? Apilife var is a wafer?

I used the strips starting in late March and leaving them in until after apple pollination was over. a little longer than the prescribed time. I haven't check any myself, but an Apiary Inspector checked some and found mites. I forget how many in each sample, but the average was 9. That's more than I have had when I didn't treat in the Spring. what's up w/ that?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

i dont like the sound of that...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Me neither. Thought about checking each hive and treating the bad ones, but then figured that mites would get around and balance the load throughout anyway. So, they will be treated when honey comes off in about 6 weeks.


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> I get these Apis mixed up. Apigaurd is the gel, right? Apivar is the strip? Apilife var is a wafer?
> 
> I used the strips starting in late March and leaving them in until after apple pollination was over. a little longer than the prescribed time. I haven't check any myself, but an Apiary Inspector checked some and found mites. I forget how many in each sample, but the average was 9. That's more than I have had when I didn't treat in the Spring. what's up w/ that?


9 mites on a 300 bee count mite shake is the economic threshold for treatment. If that's the average, then you have a few mite farms out there. You're going to want to be prompt with your fall treatment if you plan on waiting until the honey is off.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I agree. Does this data indicate something? Like the treatment wasn't effective? Or they picked up motes some how after the treatment was removed?

It is possible that those hives were not treated, but I don't think so. More likely they were not given the right strip dosage.


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## chickenia (Apr 13, 2012)

The IPM board, plus, I do scratch off some of the drone brood and see if there are any mites in the drone cells. I just don't want to use the same thing continuously and develop resistance to Apivar. I didn't use ANY mite treatment this spring because of finding no mites at that time. The hives have been healthy and producing this summer, but I don't want to wait so late this year to "put them to bed"  Being it has been a year since using Apivar only once, could I use Apivar without them getting used to it already, OR would Apiguard do as well to interchange with? THanks


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Recommendations I hear are that rotating materials is the best way to avoid resistance.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

pleasantvalley said:


> then you have a few mite farms out there.


Ah yes Mark, of course. I never thought of it. Your hives are probably bringing back mites from other yards. I use to be plagued with that a few years ago, when my neighbour sold his bees to an inexperienced beekeeper, who believed into this whole "control the mites with breeding" thing. My outer yards were always hammered with mite counts, and high losses, which were brought back into the mix of my operation continually. The problem was I did not understand what was happening...
His bees died three years in a row, he went bankrupt, and all of a sudden my mite counts straightened out and my treatments worked as planned.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah, I did lease some bees to another beekeeper for pollination. I did wonder what troubles that might bring me. Maybe that's where they came from. Though the strips were still in place during pollination and up until less than a week before the sample was taken.

I aught to do some sampling of my own. I keep telling myself.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

It's a good thing your treating


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