# Honey Launding.....again



## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

I may have missed where someone posted this but here it is again.
How do we stand a chance. I ran across this article while doing some marketing. I contacted a broker agency who said they couldn't help me as they already represented another honey company. They didn't name names but I have to wonder who and where the honey comes from.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/394053_honey30.asp


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Why do you have to wonder? You should know by now where it comes from!


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Yeah...notice that the barrels were marked to ship to Sue Bee...but they continue to claim they don't buy it...oh wait...TRY not to buy it. What a bunch of crooks. Sorry Sue Bee COOP guys who are caught in the middle...but it's obvious your organization is being run by a bunch of..shall I say in Huser's own words... "Bamboozlers"

"There, according to Indian Customs reports, the honey marked "for re-export purposes" was accepted by Apis India Natural Products. *The drums still contained instructions from the Chinese company, saying the load was to be shipped to America's biggest and oldest honey cooperative -- Iowa-based Sue Bee Honey*. Two containers of the honey reportedly were shipped to Norfolk, Va., and three more went to Jacksonville, Fla.; all were later routed to Iowa.

*"We do not buy Chinese honey," said Sue Bee Vice President Bill Huser. Then he quickly added: "We're trying not to buy Chinese honey. Someone could be trying to bamboozle us."*

Huser, who's in charge of quality control, said 40 percent of the cooperative's 60 million pounds of honey packed each year is imported. But Sue Bee boasts an in-house laboratory that Huser claims is used to put foreign honey through a number of tests, including checks for antibiotic residue.

Those tests have found chloramphenicol-laced honey, he said. "It's still out there, yeah. ... We find it once a month or so."

*The tainted honey is returned to the supplier, said Huser, who concedes it could find its way back into the pipeline.

"There's definitely a likelihood that it's being sold to someone else," he said.*


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## ga.beeman (Mar 29, 2009)

glad someone feels the same way I do


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

I'm trying, trying really, really hard to understand why Sue Bee doesn't alert Customs when they find contaminated honey from China! Instead, they ship it back to the broker or wholesaler to be sent out again to some other packer. "We're trying not to buy Chinese honey." Sure, I believe you, because I know you're just trying to help the U.S. consumer and U.S. beekeepers.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Remember my post months ago.....exactly what I said. Honey come into Jacksonville port and Norfolk bound for Sue Bee. Sue has always been corrupt and its my opinion that sue members have their heads in the sand and to fire their officers/directors and start al lover with new management. Make Sue represent its memebers and market their good honey instead of runing it with Chinese and other contaminated honey.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

fish_stix said:


> I'm trying, trying really, really hard to understand why Sue Bee doesn't alert Customs


How do you prove Sue Bee didn't contaminate it. The Chinese will say it was good honey when it left their posession.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Let's apply some logic here. If Sue Bee turned the funny honey over to the authorities, like a responsible party would do, the importer would get burned, and Sue would not get as much cheep honey. The logical conclusion is that Sue loves their money more than their image, they want that cheap funny honey to cheat their customers.

Roland


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Roland said:


> The logical conclusion is that Sue loves their money more than their image, they want that cheap funny honey to cheat their customers.
> 
> Roland


It would appear that they also may not care about a quality product that won't harm their customers. :no:


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Hi again

I think we need to rename the title of this thread. It's not new, it's the same old info, quotes, and article that was dated November 30, 2008. The numbers in this old article shows Sue Bee imported about a 9% of the total honey imported 2 years ago. 

Can we comment on the other 91% of honey imported (260 million pounds) to the USA? I never see any comments on the practices of the vast majority of honey importers, only Sue Bee. I want to hear the rest of the story.

THIS ARTICLE AND ARGUMENT IS 2 YEARS OLD. 

We as an industry have to make sure the USA imports only safe and pure honey. We need to be sure all duties and tariffs are enforced, stop transshipment . I re-read the article and pulled out some quotes that show what it takes to hunt down the criminals in this world. Sue Bee can't run investigations of this size. ICE must make this a priority, or we will be stuck with the system from 2008 "keep your own nose clean".

THIS ARTICLE AND ARGUMENT IS 2 YEARS OLD. 

....a five-month Seattle P-I investigation has found.

... investigators were seizing his business records, passport, phone logs, photographs, Rolodexes, mail and computer files -- almost anything that could be copied or hauled away.

"honey producers and brokers, here and overseas, say they often warn Immigration and Customs Enforcement of specific incoming tainted shipments, and are IGNORED"

For three months, federal agents pursued the case. Computer databases were searched, informants and witnesses questioned, company records seized.


THIS ARTICLE AND ARGUMENT IS 2 YEARS OLD. 

Lets get some current information so we can all help move the discussion forward


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Please read the article. It's old news, but it clearly states Sue Bee tests honey to be safe and pure even after it has been cleared by customs. The article also states Sue Bee refuses to purchase honey that doesn't pass the tests.

The only accusation made by the article is that Sue Bee ended up with honey that had been shipped around the globe by an exporter who wanted to avoid a duty or tariff. Read my earlier post to see the things the federal agents had to do to implicate bad exporters. No fault was ever leveled against Sue Bee in the article.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Ryan, I think you are missing the point which is that Sue Bee obviously is importing Chinese Honey (as indicated by the labeling leaving China that it was to be sent to Sue Bee and that when they do discover bad honey they just "return it", not notify ICE or anyone else and "know" that it will probably be sold again into the system. But like you said, this has all been discussed before. The sad thing is that Sue Bee still hasn't changed it's position nor practices with regards to importing honey.


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

...a five-month Seattle P-I investigation has found.

... investigators were seizing his business records, passport, phone logs, photographs, Rolodexes, mail and computer files -- almost anything that could be copied or hauled away.

For three months, federal agents pursued the case. Computer databases were searched, informants and witnesses questioned, company records seized.

================================================

The point is, after federal agents did a massive investigation they found honey had been laundered and USA importers (including Sue Bee) had been fooled. 

The Point is, it was not "OBVIOUS" at the time it happened and some of the people who did it may do some jail time. 

Somehow people read into the article that Sue Bee was the group that was targeted by the investigation. Sue Bee was cited as a victim who has an in house lab to be sure it's honey is pure and safe, no matter where it came from.

MY POINT IS
Some read this article and somehow come away saying they Sue is selling funny honey that is unsafe. The exact opposite of what the words in the article say.

dont forget my favorite quote from The 2 year old article 
"honey producers and brokers, here and overseas, say they often warn Immigration and Customs Enforcement of specific incoming tainted shipments, and are IGNORED"


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

I need information

The numbers in the article show Sue Bee accounted for about 9% of all imports in 2008. (a good chunk of it comes directly from Canadian producers that we all know and love)

Can we comment on the other 91% of honey imported (260 million pounds) to the USA? I never see any comments on the practices of the vast majority of honey importers, only Sue Bee. 

I want to hear the rest of the story. Lets talk about the management practices of the guys who import rest of the honey.


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Let me get ahead of the curve.

If you have a plan that gets rid of import price pressure on my honey, but still allows me to buy goods that have to compete with import prices, then you are my best friend. 


If you like $3.00 fuel better than $11.00 fuel then we are stuck letting in the clean, pure honey at actual production costs.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

Ryan, you obviously have a dog in this fight so to speak. The point of starting this thread was to just point out the problem with importing honey in general. Particualarly cheap honey. Walmarts sells a 5 pound container of light honey (cant name names)for $9.94. (1.98/lb) and current light honey prices for U.S. honey are about $1.65/lb. That leaves .33 cents for marketing, distribution, retailer and producer profit. Seems extremly tight even with a million pounds packed a year I am not sure the numbers would work out. On the other hand if your only paying .85 cents per pound. The packers making bank.
My personal problem is that the consumer believes that the lowest price they see, like these at walmart, IS the price of honey. So when we small guys try sell to retailers, in their mind the price should be competative with walmart. They think we are robbing them. When actually we are selling high quality honey at a fair price. Most of us can't afford a massive education campaign to educate the public on what they are buying and even if we could people may decide to steer clear of honey all together.(this happened several years ago as I recall)
If it imports didn't exsist, or were cut to a nominal number the current price of light domestic honey would be on the order of 2.20/lb.
I am not an idealistic hippie, I know where there is a buck to be made it will be made and as this global economy continues stagnate there are more and more coyotes looking for scraps.More and more individuals that can turn a coin by turning a label.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

Ryan are you saying that your honey quality is as bad as some of the import honey, or are you saying all honey is the same so deal with it?


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Hi nice to hear from you simplyhoney

I don't really have a dog. Just feel the need to call out those who read an article then claim it means the exact opposite of the words printed on the page.

I really do want to know what importer does do a better job than Sue Bee. Some claim they are problem, but never have I seen anyone list a company or individual that does a more ethical job. All I see is "Sue isn't perfect and if they just stopped importing honey things would get better". Show me who is better and I'll believe. 

I'm not too sure the price of honey would only get to $2.20 if imports stopped. Your talking about 60% of the total supply.

I agree about the prices at the store. But having Sue Bee stop importing honey does nothing but cause that price to go even lower. And the standards would not go up.

This is 'My dog in the fight'
Keep your focus. I write here to force a discussion. Name the best importers of honey in the USA. Lets have the discussion. The industry needs to stay focused on the true problem. We can compete and the price disparity will be reduced if the imported honey is guaranteed pure, clean and not 'dumped' on the USA market. Keep the pressure on ICE and the FDA to make sure the USA beekeepers get a fair chance. 

My guess is that Sue Bee is the best. But I only think that because no one has thrown out any other names. I'm happy to be wrong.


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Sorry I'm so slow

I have really nice honey. And I understand that If an import comes in that is the same quality I will be forced by consumers to get close to their price. If the import is lower quality I'll get a premium. 

If honey is not a differentiated product, I can not compete. Thankfully some of the honey buyers in this country (both packers and consumers) still know about the different kinds of honey. The more we differentiate our product the less impact low price competitors have on our prices. Some of the bulk markets are "all honey is the same, deal with it" Kinda depends on what we are talking about.

Does that answer the question?


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

ryan said:


> Hi nice to hear from you simplyhoney
> 
> I don't really have a dog. Just feel the need to call out those who read an article then claim it means the exact opposite of the words printed on the page.


From Ryan "Hi Woodside. I'm a Sue member." post number 60 from thread SueBee pros/Cons. 

Ryan, I think this is what Simplyhoney was meaning when he asked if you had a dog in the fight.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

A lot of consumers buy based on price. They have only so many food dollars to spend also. Add to that that they don't know there is low quality and high quality honey so they think they are comparing apples to apples. Based on the quantity of cheap honey sold in the USA, I would say the majority just don't know what they are buying so the price is the deciding factor.


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Yes, I don't think anyone has forgotten that thread. I've been and not been a Sue member. Currently I am a member.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Bottomline is this: SUE BEE KNOWS DANG WELL THEY ARE IMPORTING chinese honey andthey dontcare as longa s they dontget caught!!! Then they play stupid....problemis most of us arent that stupid to believe them!


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

"Currently I am a member. " this would be your dog it the fight, Ryan.


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