# Plastic foundation cell size ?



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The PermaComb is 5.1mm and is fully drawn. This measurment is arrived at by allowing for differences in cell wall thickness on PermaComb and on natural drawn cells since the walls are already there.

The Pierco mediums are about 5.35mm. Pierco Deeps are 5.25mm. RiteCell is 5.4mm Those are the only ones I know of. I'd go with the PermaComb if you're going mediums. I'm going to get some packages today and put them on wax coated PermaComb which comes to about 4.95mm.

You could just give them the 4.9mm plastic. I think they will do fine with it, even if it isn't perfectly drawn out.


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## Dee A. Lusby (Oct 4, 2000)

You wrote:I currently am using Pierco deep foundation in my brood boxes, but I run 1 1/2 brood chambers, 1 deep and 1 medium. My question is ,does anyone make a medium foundation in plastic with the same cell size or smaller than the pierco deeps?

Reply:
SHM is making 4.9mm small cell plastic foundation that Dadant sells and has been advertising in ABJ since March Issue.

You further wrote:
I could cut the deeps down or just use 4.9 plastic. I plan to work into all 4.9 foundation and am using the smallest plastic foundation as a 1st regression. Thanks to anyone with any thoughts on this. 

Reply:
The SHM small cell plastic 4.9 will work for both first and second regression as it is cleanable by culling and melting down any worng drawn comb. Why buy twice when you can just buy once.

I myself don't know of any permacomb small cell foundation that is made properly for the bees by any other manufacturer, but guess some will try to fill the need as popularity grows. So be careful.

Regards,

Dee A. Lusby


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

No, PermaComb is not made for small cell. It just happens to be smaller cell size than most. My measuremts are 5.1mm cell size when allowing for the thicker walls. When I wax coat it it comes to 4.95mm. It is a lot of work and requires a bit of careful manipulation to get a consistent coat of wax on it. But they can't misdraw it.


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## Rickert Apiaries (Jan 1, 2003)

Thanks for your reply's,after some thought and too much procrastination I will probably start using 4.9 plastic as Dee states , it can be scraped clean and used again for a second regression.
The initial cost seemed high at first but after some thought, it's no more than any one chemical teatment one might use, not to mention additional work having to build and replace frames in the future.


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## briancady413 (Dec 8, 2003)

Michael Bush:

On waxing plastic drawn comb, could Sunoil, alcohol or ammonia help spray wax, etc. on, then evaporate?

Sunoil is a perhaps-misremembered name for a dormant oil for fruit tree spraying which is, as I remember, non-toxic and light enough to evaporate within a week.

Ammonia (slightly toxic, and quite irritating, but natural), and Alcohol ( flammable, pretty safe for all but alcoholics)
can both help oils form emulsions with water-based solution, I beleive.

Brian Cady


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>On waxing plastic drawn comb, could Sunoil, alcohol or ammonia help spray wax, etc. on, then evaporate?

I know nothing about it.

>Sunoil is a perhaps-misremembered name for a dormant oil for fruit tree spraying which is, as I remember, non-toxic and light enough to evaporate within a week.

My guess is that it will lower the viscocity of the wax and the coating will be thinner. I actually need it to be slightly thicker. My target was 4.9mm and I only got 4.95mm. Maybe if it was cool it might be the same viscocity as hot wax. I don't know enough about it to say.

>Ammonia (slightly toxic, and quite irritating, but natural), and Alcohol ( flammable, pretty safe for all but alcoholics)
can both help oils form emulsions with water-based solution, I beleive.

The alcohol would entirely evaporate fairly quickly, but how would you get it to disolve the wax? You can't heat it or it will evaporate the alcohol? Maybe if the wax set in the alcohol long enough it might dissolve, but I'd need to end up with a reasonable viscous solution, so there would have to be a lot of wax and not much alcohol.

My guess is that it won't work.

I wish I knew more about how the plastic foundation people coat theirs. They spray it on somehow. I'm not sure if it could work for what I want, because I need to complete coat the inside of the cell wall and spray is directional. How do I hit the sides of all of the wall?


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited December 23, 2003).]


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