# Hive beetles should be gone, but they are thriving!



## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

My hive beetles overwintered with my girls last year. I'm sure they are trying to do the same this year, which is why I will squish every one that I can find when I do an inspection. I did just refresh the diatomaceous earth on my bottom board (under the screened bottom board), and noticed quite a few dead ones down there the next day. I had just done a full inspection and powdered sugar shake on the hive because it was 78 degrees here in VA and I wanted to do some mite control while there was no brood. Maybe that riled up the hive so that they booted the beetles out.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Mine stay thru the winter, of course it's rarely below freezing here for any length of time. I've got Freeman beetle traps on all but two, and will have them on those two when spring arrives. 
If you've only got two hives, you should consider it. Losing a hive is a major loss when you only have two. thou I'm surprised you have them at all up there. I would think the larva in the ground could not possible survive the winter. Thou I have no idea how long the adults can live and lay eggs. 
good luck!


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

ruthiesbees said:


> My hive beetles overwintered with my girls last year. I'm sure they are trying to do the same this year, which is why I will squish every one that I can find when I do an inspection. I did just refresh the diatomaceous earth on my bottom board (under the screened bottom board), and noticed quite a few dead ones down there the next day. I had just done a full inspection and powdered sugar shake on the hive because it was 78 degrees here in VA and I wanted to do some mite control while there was no brood. Maybe that riled up the hive so that they booted the beetles out.


I have noticed that if I do a powdered sugar shake, and then put fresh oil in the trap, it catches a ton of beetles. I think the angry bees take it out on the beetles and a lot get driven into the trap.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Put the hives in full sun and the SHB's hate it. Leave them in the shade and they'll head there like college kids to a tapped keg, especially as Fall advances. SHB populations drop dramatically when they're in full sun. Where they go? No idea but at the most I'll see a dozen in a single hive. Normally I see none. Hives in the shade I'd see 40-50 on a bad day. Nucs in the shade? They'll overrun them. Full sun, 5-6 but normally none.


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

That is a good question. I've been meaning to ask about the life cycle of the SHB. I bought some beetle traps awhile back but didn't know if it was worth putting them in for the winter. Next warm day I'm home I put them in. Some folks have said cider vinegar attracts them but I guess I will go with oil so I don't have to open the hive unnecessarily.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

They will be fairly inactive just as the bees are. The only reason they can be active is the bees are keeping them warm but it's not optimal conditions to 'thrive'.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

these have worked good for me:

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/product/DC-685.html

i fill them about 30% full with cheap vegetable oil spiked with a little rotten banana juice and apple cider vinegar. one trap in each box, positioned between the outside frame and the first one in, alternating left and right sides coming up the stack.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

They probably won't be a problem at this point because the larvae have to go to ground to pupate so unless the weather fools the adults into thinking it's spring they probably won't lay any eggs because the ground is too cold. In theory. And I don't really know how cold is too cold, so I could be wrong. Anyway I always see them in hives until winter starts in earnest.

And pn the other hand I saw a weeping cherry tree in full bloom a couple of days ago.

Good thing climate change isn't real or things might get really weird.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

>Hive beetles should be gone, but they are thriving! <

>At what temperature do these little buggers die off? <

SHB are from Africa. They like heat. They peak about August. The two above sentences implies the keeper expects the SHB to die off in winter. Wrong. Like bees, they will reduce their numbers and live in the cluster til spring. You do not eliminate SHB, you MANAGE them. 

My hives only get 3 or 4 hours of sun in the summer. I do not have a SHB problem. Where I live has forced me to learn correct management techniques.

It is noted most replying to this thread live in colder states,excepting the lady from Florida.

Do not go elephant hunting with a BB gun. Nor do you use those tinker toys that you put between the frames. Yes, you use cider vinegar as bait in the tinker toys. The Lady from Isle of Wright is going down the right path.


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

Mr. Dog I'm looking at a winter solution. As Ruth does I do use diatomaceous earth but put around and under my hives in the summer and have an oil pan under the screen bottom board in the summer as well. A little diatomaceous earth on the bottom board this time of year surely might help. No one thing may be that magic bullet but a combination of 3 or 4 might do the trick. It's a learning process and every year is different.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

photobiker said:


> Mr. Dog I'm looking at a winter solution. As Ruth does I do use diatomaceous earth but put around and under my hives in the summer and have an oil pan under the screen bottom board in the summer as well. A little diatomaceous earth on the bottom board this time of year surely might help. No one thing may be that magic bullet but a combination of 3 or 4 might do the trick. It's a learning process and every year is different.


Try that powder sugar shake next weekend when it's to be 70, and put the DE on the bottom board, and then tell us what happens


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

Ummm, maybe try the DE under your screened bottom board. If you have a solid bottom board, don't dump DE on it. It will shred the bees just like it does to every thing else.
Sky


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Sky said:


> Ummm, maybe try the DE under your screened bottom board. If you have a solid bottom board, don't dump DE on it. It will shred the bees just like it does to every thing else.
> Sky


That is correct. solid IPM board under the screened bottom gets the diatomaceous earth. If the bees roll in the DE, they can die. Although I have seen quite a few get into it and fly out alive. I guess it all depends whether or not they can get the stuff off of them in a timely manner. (Thank you for the clarification, Sky)


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

NewBeeLady said:


> At what temperature do these little buggers die off? What temps can they stand?


See this page on SHB ...
http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agric...ases/bees/small-hive-beetle-a-beekeeping-pest

Part of that page:


> Research conducted by the NSW Department of Environment and Primary Industries (Levot et al, 2005) found that all SHB life-cycle stages were susceptible to cold temperature. The minimum exposure times needed to disinfest boxes of empty stored comb were 6 hours in a freezer (temperature of minus 8.6ºF to minus 7.6ºF) or 12 days in a refrigerated cold room (temperature of 33.8ºF to 48.2ºF).


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

Swifter dry pads will trap them. Then freezer them boogers. I put in zip bags to transport


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

D Coates said:


> Put the hives in full sun and the SHB's hate it. Leave them in the shade and they'll head there like college kids to a tapped keg, especially as Fall advances. SHB populations drop dramatically when they're in full sun. Where they go? No idea but at the most I'll see a dozen in a single hive. Normally I see none. Hives in the shade I'd see 40-50 on a bad day. Nucs in the shade? They'll overrun them. Full sun, 5-6 but normally none.


I suspect there is more to it then just sun, my hives are in full sun and I've never seen so many SHB as I did this year. I finally decided to put freeman beetle traps under everything, including nucs. Perhaps it's the amount of rain or humidity we get in Florida, but full sun was no protection. I went to the freeman beetle traps when I saw about 50 shb when I took the cover of about half my hives. most of these hives had handiwipes and beetle jails in them already. They couldn't keep up with the expansion of the SHB. The freeman beetle traps are expensive, but the SHB population steadily declined in every hive I put them on.

A sugar shake and fresh tray of oil really wiped them out. I had one queen timing box, that was being overrun, I put a Freeman beetle trap under it, came back 4 hours later and the trap had over 100 SHB in it.

Now I simply don't take the chance, every box I build, gets a Freeman trap.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I usually see a constant dribble of dead hive beetles on the sticky board in my hives all winter. I've learned to keep empty comb off of them as empty comb collects thousands of hive beetles hiding out waiting to slip down and lay eggs. 

Full sun in the morning helps, I suspect because it the woodenware gets quite warm, and the beetles cook when they hide in the gap between end bars and frames where the bees tend to herd them. Traps help too.

I've seen very few this year, even in my shaded hive, so as always in beekeeping, everything is local. I was over-run a couple years ago and lost a nuc to them, horrible mess. Won't repeat the mistake of too much drawn comb in a weak hive again! 

Peter


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I use DE in the mulch under the hives and oil trays under the bottom boards. Jim Tew talked about using microfiber cloth over the top frames in his article in Bee Culture or ABJ. (I mix them up)


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## Bee Nut (Oct 10, 2015)

I'm surprised that more folks haven't found the freeman beetle traps. We've used them for a few years now and have had great success. While you may see a beetle or two; when any eggs hatch the larvea drop to the bottom of the hive to find their way to dirt where they pupate. Instead they fall into a pan of used cooking grease and die. This process disrupts the life cycle of the beetles and consequently they cannot gain in numbers. So simple. Other screened bottom boards have a lip on the edges where the freeman has no lip for the beetles to hide. Beware of imitations. I'm sure there are good ones out there but there is a difference in those I've purchased.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Bee Nut said:


> I'm surprised that more folks haven't found the freeman beetle traps. We've used them for a few years now and have had great success. While you may see a beetle or two; when any eggs hatch the larvea drop to the bottom of the hive to find their way to dirt where they pupate. Instead they fall into a pan of used cooking grease and die. This process disrupts the life cycle of the beetles and consequently they cannot gain in numbers. So simple. Other screened bottom boards have a lip on the edges where the freeman has no lip for the beetles to hide. Beware of imitations. I'm sure there are good ones out there but there is a difference in those I've purchased.


Bee nut have you tried mineral oil? My used or clean vegetable oil gets rancid fast in the summer heat. Mineral oil cost more, but I don't have to change it nearly as often and it never smells bad.
You can find it pretty cheaply by the gallon on the web.


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## Bee Nut (Oct 10, 2015)

I have not tried it. We change it about every 6 weeks or so because of the amount of debris. Hasn't been an issue for us-yet.


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## scorpionmain (Apr 17, 2012)

I have never understood the "Full Sun" recommendation that's pushed on here.
This claim just don't make sense to me.
These beetles are endemic to the sub-Saharan region of Africa. 
I am pretty sure they can deal with Sun & heat just fine.
Maybe the larva get dried up before they get into the soil when in Full Sun if you don't have anything growing around your hives, but if there is a leaf of grass or something to cast a small shadow the chances are pretty slim that they will be dried out.
They are a secondary pest much like wax moths. Hives with to much space, over-supering, or weak hives have issues with them. 

My hives have always been in the shade. KY is full of hills, hollars, and trees. It's hard to escape the shade and I have never seen but one or two beetles in my hives.
I run my hives tight. Solid bottom boards with reduced entrances all year (top & bottom entrances) and keep the bees consolidated.
Never had the need for all these gadgets & traps.
Or maybe I am just lucky... I dunno but I doubt it. Not been lucky in avoiding mites. 
P.S.
I hope I haven't just jinked myself.


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## beegineer (Jul 5, 2011)

Yes , freeman beetle traps are a Hive saver for small hive beetles.I hate them little suckers . They probably wont hurt your hive this winter , but come spring I would put some freeman bottom boards on. Some people are going back to solid bottom board's but not me.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

we hit - 17 deg last winter they overwintered in the cluster just fine.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Most if not all of the small hive beetles in my hives were killed off when I treated my hives with oxalic acid vapor. In one case a wax moth larva was killed by the vapor.


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## Mszczuj (Dec 28, 2015)

What is DE?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

DE = Diatomaceous Earth

DE can kill many insects by acting as an abrasive on the softer joints in their exoskeleton. If you use DE, one needs to keep the bees and the DE separated - often a screen is used for that.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

scorpionmain said:


> I have never understood the "Full Sun" recommendation that's pushed on here.
> This claim just don't make sense to me.
> These beetles are endemic to the sub-Saharan region of Africa.
> I am pretty sure they can deal with Sun & heat just fine.


You're curious why it's recommended, but you've never tried it? "Pretty sure" but you're willing to dismiss it outright yet it costs you nothing but a few hives moved into the sun to try/prove it for yourself. SHB's may like heat just fine but beehives are normally in trees. Trees inherently have shade. What do SHB's do when you open a hive? They fly off or run for darkness. Maybe they like shade? The only SHB's I've got in any serious numbers is the 5 deep OB hive in my office. It's full shade 100% of the time so I have to keep it really strong to keep the SHB's in check.

Yes, you still have to have good strong hives and manage them properly but for those who have SHB troubles I speak from experience. Put your hives in full sun to reduce SHB numbers (assuming the hive has strong numbers and a good queen). It's no skin off my nose either way, nor do I really care how it works. But, I waste no time nor money bothering with SHB's and this is how I handle them.


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