# Polar Vortex states



## Shawl (Mar 31, 2014)

Minnesota had the 10th coldest winter on record and the coldest since 1936. My hives (new California packages installed April 2013) were wiped out. I need to find a better location. A location that gets early morning sun so the bees get going earlier in the day. I was too concerned about siting my hives to be protected from the north wind and so nestled them up against a shelter belt. The other change for 2014 is to attempt to produce overwintering nucs (thanks to Adrian Q. for filling me in on the details over breakfast this winter). I can't sustain this hobby (when I retire) by buying package bees every year. So, if I am able to start a nuc in June, I will purchase a queen produced locally.
Scott in the St. Croix Valley


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm a little further south but we had plenty of below zero temps. I lost 22% but all my bees are from swarms I caught or colonies removed, no California queens or packages.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Here in western Massachusetts we have a long and cold winter. I have been keeping bees for several years and always over estimate how much honey the bees need for winter. I never extract deep frames. I save all of them for winter feeding and nuc production. This winter the hives started with about 80-100 pounds of honey. I stared moving frames to the cluster in January. By early march I had to add multiple capped frames per hive. Just completed my first inspection this past Sunday. I had to emergency feed syrup.

The bees consumed 120+ pounds of honey this winter. The first nectar is just now being foraged.


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

Here in western michigan one of the coldest ever on record and second snowiest ever. I myself lost 3 of 11 full size colonies, all to dysentery like symptoms. I also lost 4 of 5 nucs that just didn't have enough food or size to get through the very cold below zero nights. Amazingly they consumed near almost the entire honey stores. Easily 120 lbs + of sugar consumed. . I wintered in 4 mediums and put sugar cakes and scrubs sugar on newsprint in all the hives. I have just started goin through the survivors and very little honey left! Luckily we're starting to get some forage so they should be ok

Many in our local club were complete losses so I am feeling pretty lucky

The nuc that made it wasn't a huge cluster but is from a very frugal line of carnis


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

We are a bit south of you, but it has been an unusually cold and long winter -- typically the local farmers have corn six inches tall by this time, and no one has been in the fields at all yet. Winter wheat just greened up a couple weeks ago.

I had to feed my hive in February, they were very light, and my brother lost his in January (probably mites or protein starvation, they had plenty of honey).

My supplier of nucs in Indianapolis lost 90% of his hives and all but one overwintering nuc, never happened to him before. Brutal winter.

Next year I plan to feed them up more just in case -- I can always remove capped honey/syrup and use it for making splits if I need to, that's much better than having to feed them in the winter, I don't like opening up the hives. I may use quilt boxes too rather than just in inner and outer cover.

Peter


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## MNbees (May 27, 2013)

Duluth,MN coldest place possible this winter. i wrapped my hives with shrink wrap last week in october 2013. never looked at them again until yesterday and they look awesome. wintered in 3 deeps. 4th deep above screen was filled with paper towels. They still had lots of honey left.
over 60 days below zero


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## drtoddh (Mar 31, 2013)

Ohio: losses in be club in SE Ohio were close to 50 %. I have 5 dbl deeps , 4 dbl 5 frame nucs and one indoor obs hive. I lost one nuc so I am thrilled. Neighbor lost all their hives. One large hive was on the verge of collapse after the last cold spell. I had to put it in a nuc box. It looks more like a split. Was going to combine it but w all the losses here I think I can grow it back out. None of my hives look as good as last year as far as numbers of bees at this time. Too cold for too long here.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The general report from Wisconsin is "Bad", but not as bad as it could have been. If the yard had made a moderate surplus, it will recover with splits. Those that had bad forage, help will be needed. Any marginal hives where doomed.

Crazy Roland


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm northern NY, and have lived and farmed here for a quarter century. This has been the longest and most sustained cold winter in my experience. Never has it started so early in December with deep cold, and stayed so deeply cold _continuously_; sort of like four months of January. My plants outside are delayed at least three weeks from recent years and two weeks off the longstanding norms.

And I picked this winter as my first one to keep bees! Though I've had bees living, unmanaged, in my barns for almost as long as I've been here - until the winter of 2012-2013. They mysteriously disappeared sometime in the late winter last year. When three new swarns took up residence late in the Spring I had them cut-out and hived. Last Fall I decided my goal was to simply to keep them alive through the upcoming winter - to just do better than my barn. Even as I insulated, quilt-boxed and wrapped them up, I had no idea what they would be facing.

But luckily I found BeeSource, and more importantly, Lauri, I read the recipe you generously posted for making sugar bricks and made some for my hives. I put the first ones in on December 22nd and restocked steadily all winter. Day after tomorrow it will finally be in the 60s, so I will have my first chance to open and really examine the hives, but I am sure that they survived due in large part to your sugar brick recipe. (I know they're doing OK because at the last restock point it was warm enough to take off the quilt box - briefly - and peer in at all those lovely bees brimming up in every seam. All well nurtured by your wonderful bricks through this long awful winter - and even now through these interminable weeks of waiting for the delayed start to the plants' growing season, when it's still too cold for syrup feeding.

So Polar Vortex: Be ****ed! My bees laughed merrily all winter, snuggly-wrapped up in their blankets and with a constant feast of Lauri's Magnificent Sugar Cookies to see them through the cold. Thank you, Lauri!

Enjambres


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

In a hard winter here I lost 7 out of 23. Everyone lost I can honestly say were queen failure or operator error. The ones strong and heavy going in survived if their queen wasn't failing going into winter. My purchased queens were not good last spring. I have queens ordered for spring but I will not be requeening any colony that wintered well and will follow mel Dissellkoens methodology with them for sure. I am going to requeen the dinks coming out of winter not counting five surviving nucs taken in to winter that were less than strong. I am starting to get good classes or orienting bees on warm less windy days now. Nice fuzzy little bees. I heard a report of bees bringing in brown pollen today. Three days ago, I had some carrying a white shiny dot in their pollen baskets I have never seen before. It looked like milk frankly and I am a quarter mile from a dairy barn.


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

I guess it pays to rear your best Queens from Survivor stock.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

psfred said:


> We are a bit south of you, but it has been an unusually cold and long winter -- typically the local farmers have corn six inches tall by this time, and no one has been in the fields at all yet. Winter wheat just greened up a couple weeks ago.
> r


Seriously fred, corn 6 inches tall at beginning of april. Thats a stretch, We are just about normal in Louisville. Winter was coldest in 25 years, all my hives made it. I fed in late fall. Just started a few splits, maple flow was great, really got them going.


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## Buzzsaw2012 (Feb 1, 2012)

I lost both my hives , both started as packages last year , both were doing well .
between the 2 hives i had 14 frames that still had patches of honey and pollen on them, and about 1/3 their sugar block on top.
hive 1 = 2 deeps was completely packed with bees top to bottom when i cleaned it out.
hive 2 = 1 deep had a cluster the size of about 8" around.
found the queen in both the dead outs , but also found no sign of brood in any stage.

I'm going to try indoor wintering this year. at least it will get them out of the wind and hopefully keep their outside air temp. higher.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Lost 1 out of 8 hives, future changes will consist of Earlier fall mite intervention and adding winter insulation wraps.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I had heavy losses in one county - tolerable losses in the county to the immediate south. I will be increasing the height of my hive stands (the hives in the northern county are about 3.5" off the ground) and keeping more colonies in triple deeps. The one colony in a triple deep in the northern county survived winter well and appears to be very strong.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Bees have wintered well here. Dead and weak production colonies amount to a little less than 10%, with no starvation yet. 15% losses in the nuc yards with some starvation. Nice clusters and most have enough feed remaining for now. Light colonies are getting a slab of fondant because I can't get to the yards to feed syrup. For the last two weeks its been snowshoes and a toboggan. Just yesterday I finally got my jeep into three yards…blasting through snowbanks is way fun…when you get through.  Off to VA for the weekend so maybe the snow will be gone or soft enough to start unwrapping when I get back, and some proper feed on those that need it.


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

Coldest and snowiest winter on record here. As of today, the maple in my yard is budded but not blooming yet. Hives are doing good - the doubles and singles made it. I lost the 4 frame nucs. That was my first winter trying to overwinter nucs. Not sure if I am going to try them again. I was able to crack the covers off on 3/31.

Here is a pic of one of my singles:









Here is one of the doubles:









I haven't been able to assess the brood status, yet.


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## OBee (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm in east central Minnesota and I just got through my first year of beekeeping. We still have knee deep snow around in much of the area. Five of the six hives made it through January where I lost one. I lost one in early March. I lost one in late March despite them still having honey and a pollen patty added to the last 3 hive. I have 2 hives remaining and they are going gang busters. One is Carniolans and the other was originally Carniolan but re-queened with a MN Hygienic queen early August last year. Of the hives that were lost, 3 were Italians and the hives. The one lost in late March was a Carniolan. I feel the March losses were from one of the few warm days (40 degrees) where they broke cluster. I looked last week and found them on honey but in 6 different clusters in the upper boxes. The tops were insulated, and moisture boards on and vented the covers. We have a 3 days of warm weather between 55 and 70 but next week it's back to highs in the 40's and low in the 30's and rain/snow mix predicted. Being the 2 remaining colonies survived and are hardy here in MN I hope to learn to make queens from them this year and possibly requeening later this summer for 8 Italian nucs I have coming. The 16 other colonies I have coming are Hygienic and Carniolans. BTW I did a mite count and treated in early October last year during a warm spell. I though I did things right but apparently I still did something wrong to lose 4 colonies.


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## dweber85rc (Nov 25, 2013)

Also in east central men and lost both of my hives in mid January. They were both from the same package 2 lb package I got in the spring of 13. Built up super fast and was able to split in July. I figured the split would not make it. Surprised the other one didn't make it though.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

merince, here is a good idea that someone else here on BS came up with for helping keep nucs warmer during the winter, perhaps this is something you could try if you wanted to give wintering nucs another try.

It amounts to 3/4" foam pipe insulation placed between the nucs so they can share each others heat, between each hive place 2 pieces vertical front and back, and 2 pieces horizontal top and bottom making sure they intersect well while pushing the hives together, and you could have more than 2 hives slid together. 

These pipe insulation tubes can be found at local lumber yards and they allow the hive covers to be removed individually as needed. The first attached picture is the 2 ea. 5 frame nucs with pipe insulation that I brought through this past winter and they did very well. In the second picture I wrapped them both in a shipping blanket for extra protection against the wind, I have recently removed this insulation.....Hope this helps.....


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

WWW, thank you for the suggestion.

I did insulate the nucs, 2 per pack with the same insulation that I put on the doubles and the singles. I will have nucs again - I'll be raising queens. Just not sure if I want them to go into winter as 4 frames or let them build up to a single (10 frames). Seems like the singles build up to a good critical mass. I won't make this decision until further into the season.


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

14 survivors out of 28 double-deep (or greater) colonies going into winter. Wrapped all of them with tarpaper, and have at least 1" of foam insulation between the top covers. Dead-outs mostly small clusters... although 3 starve-outs. Central NY saw a weak fall flow... which is partly to blame, I guess. This is in and around Syracuse, NY.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Brutal winter here this year, lost 2 hives to starvation, and one of my singles had a 'half dead' starve out where the bulk of the colony died on one end of the box but the queen and some workers made it to the other side of the box (on a sunny day perhaps) and are raising brood now. I caught a lucky break on that single.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Yeah it was a tough one but the bees and the chickens were laying up a storm. I got one dink so if it doesn't show signs of improvement then I will give the rest of the honey I took off last fall to the two hives that are going strong. Next week is suppose to be a heat wave.

I also got to decide whether I will split or not. If I don't I will have to pull honey in the late spring or summer. Something I have never done and not looking forward to it.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Bees wintered well here too . A cold and long winter too for Virgina. Out of about 40 colonies, Zero dead outs, weak and not really worth keeping = 10%. I have wise and kind beekeepers to thank for this. As well as good queen sources, multiple mite assessment(s) and corresponding treatment(s), fall feeding and a great live in box lifter to help me get it done. I did feed fondant to most in Jan. and Feb. Wide variation on honey stores left- some plenty, others not so much. Some Spring feeding of liquid syrup to nucs.

Well truth be told- 4 I did not get into- as it was nearly dusk when I finally got out there. Took off shims left over from winter fondant and they were each exploding with bees and burr comb, so I am going to assume they are queen right. Plopped supers on and left.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Don't know about you all, but I'm staying in today! It's 16 degrees in SC...... we're not used to that!


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

snl said:


> Don't know about you all, but I'm staying in today! It's 16 degrees in SC...... we're not used to that!


Any idea if fruit trees are being damaged or other effects?


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## IsedHooah (Jan 13, 2015)

-23 wind chill today in my area..... but at least it will be sunny :waiting: Never hated winter until I started keeping bees!


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

-2 this morning in southern VA. I've yet to buy my established hives from a gentleman I met thru association. I'm so scared they won't make it :/


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

Waiting for the maple sap to flow!!! Then I get my first nuc of bees in may!


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

27 below F. here this morning. Been way more than a month since it has been up near freezing. Still have a few bees flying out into the snow from each hive so that is promising. Has only been a bit below historical cold but not as many warmer breaks. Could be another month before the first cleansing flights so can't count my losses for a while yet.


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

8 below F here this morning on the Blue Ridge Parkway in Southwest Virginia.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Broke numerous record lows this winter. We have been averaging double digit below zero every night. Daytime hugs have been 20 or less since Christmas. We have been getting 1-2 feet of snow a week since late January. Hive losses are only at 4% so far.

I don't know about all of you.....the bees and I have had enough of winter.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I clearly did not leave my bees with enough honey. It was assumed that they were queenless and going to die anyway. The first part of winter was very mild and my plan was working but now winter is endless and I am sure my bees are toast. My wife reminds me I say this every year.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Starting to plan for 3 deeps for wintering. I have about half my hives in this set up right now. Bees are still in the middle box with a full fox of honey above them. I like not having to worry about stores in winter. Had enough of trudging through 3 feet of snow.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael B said:


> Had enough of trudging through 3 feet of snow.


This will be a good year to buy bees because what you buy locally will be survivors.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Acebird said:


> This will be a good year to buy bees because what you buy locally will be survivors.


I'm only at 4% losses so far. Need the next 6 weeks to be kind. I'm planning a very large expansion this year on hope to graft off of these survivors.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael don't count your chickens. We lost three this winter in a couple of weeks and they are not eating. Not a good sign.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> Michael don't count your chickens. We lost three this winter in a couple of weeks and they are not eating. Not a good sign.


If I'm not mistaken I thought you lost all but one hive in August or September because on October 5th you started this thread : http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304285-Acebirds-one-hive

Seems like you're now claiming to have retroactive winter losses....


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

BeeCurious said:


> Seems like you're now claiming to have retroactive winter losses....


I think Ace is thinking about applying for ELAP


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Acebird said:


> This will be a good year to buy bees because what you buy locally will be survivors.


That would be correct, except I believe anyone with survivors will be _keeping _every last bee to make up for their pwn losses. Might make for good breeder queen selection though-all things being equal of course. (Can't really select from a Larger colony or one that had special treatment or prep over others)


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

We've been getting "Alberta Clippers" in Colorado for at least 5 decades. Now we have to put up with Polar Vortex's too???  

A kind of typical winter here, but 7 for 7 so far.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> But maybe you're actually talking about chickens, it's really hard to tell at times.


Yes I was speaking about the chickens we lost.


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## lucasjack83 (Jun 12, 2013)

Out of six hives I'n down to three. I lost one early to robbing and a colony collaspe. The other two I lost during the cold this winter and I found that one of those two was weak going into the winter and di not fare well over the summer either. However I have lost the third due truly to the cold snap this last week. two weeks ago I was feeding them and the colony was extremely small and surprisingly weak, especially considering she produced four supers of honey during the summer. So I checked on them yesterday which was the first break in the weather we had and they were froze out. I live in the Appalachians of western North Carolina and we have had a very cold november and february with a normal december and above normal january.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Here is what some of my NY hives look like.

https://www.facebook.com/mark.berni...0205094892546494.1073741877.1069161207&type=3


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Here is what some of my NY hives look like.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/mark.berni...0205094892546494.1073741877.1069161207&type=3


how can I view your pics if I don't play facebook?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Don't they come up if you click on the Link?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

no. your facebook title page comes up. no pics


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Shoot

How about now?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...92546494.1073741877.1069161207&type=3&theater


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Really Mark?" 5-15 2010 pic?


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

I lost the hive that I was trying to rescue. I didn't have the time to do a thorough inspection, but it appears that they really didn't get in to the sugar blocks that I added. There were several bees standing on comb & top bars (frozen in time) but I haven't checked the bottom board to see how many bees were actually in the hive. I'm suspicious that they may not have had the numbers to keep to keep themselves warm. Weak hive to start?

It's been a lot colder here (SW Pennsylvania) this winter- well below normal. I really hate to say this but maybe this was a blessing in disguise. I felt going into this that I may be putting effort into this for nothing, but I believed that it was my responsibility to at least try. They were a mess to begin with- I never really had solid proof of their health and I would have destroyed a lot of comb trying to transfer them. This week or coming weekend, I'll make it a point to take a real good look at them and get some pictures. I'll post them in a new thread for some input.


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## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm six for six alive. One nuc looks real weak. I have some super strong hives and some not so much. The big ones are going to try to swarm and I haven't been very good at derailing that so the question is do I go the lazy route and try to catches them when they start making cells. Or do I step it up and manage them for production and graft from the strong queens. Either way I need some new queens because my nucs are fisty and I don't want that around kids. What did I learn? August nucs are they way to go.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Margot1d>>those big hives are going to go through some food next month, make sure they have enough. March is tough on colonies here.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Brace yourselves - 'looks like the next PV is headed east from here. Yes, that's us on the national news. 13" of the light & fluffy snow that we get when it's really cold. 3 more feet and I _may_ need to sweep the upper entrances


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## m1ke05 (Jul 16, 2014)

2 of 2 still alive here in western NY. I will be happy if both make it all the way but I suspect one will not.


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## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

clyderoad said:


> Margot1d>>those big hives are going to go through some food next month, make sure they have enough. March is tough on colonies here.


They all feel heavy. I have two frames of honey that I tried to put on the nucs but the top frames were full except for the one or two on the inside wall which were half full. I will keep an eye on them. Thanks!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

R u sure they aren't frozen down?


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## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

I think I lifted them sqkcrk, but I'm not 100%. I'll check again. Here is one of the clusters the other was bigger. They all have sugar on them which they have not eaten much of.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Set it on top of them so they can get it. Then they will eat it. And don't be so stingy with it.


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

15* belooooooooow zero. 
Hope the bees are cuddling.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

-19 this morning. Getting ridiculous.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Michael B said:


> -19 this morning. Getting ridiculous.


Dang, I'd hate to see your utility (heating) bill!!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I had a fuel oil delivery a cpl days ago. A little over 200 gallons. Close to $700.00 worth of fuel. Our monthly Bill all year round is $350.00, this year. I expect it will be going up.

Temps were almost 30 degrees F here today. Got the Bobcat back. Now it has a Block Heater Plug.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> I had a fuel oil delivery a cpl days ago. A little over 200 gallons. Close to $700.00 worth of fuel. Our monthly Bill all year round is $350.00, this year. I expect it will be going up.
> 
> Temps were almost 30 degrees F here today. Got the Bobcat back. Now it has a Block Heater Plug.


Why? My heat bill for the entire winter is < 700 bucks.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Really.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes sir.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What do you heat your house with? Maybe your house is newer than mine.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

According to the house inspector i should have six more inches of insulation in my attic for this zone. My house is fairly well insulated as its 16 years old.

I use anthracite coal to heat my house. Less mess than wood, much easier than wood, and diesel is meant for trucks not homes


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My house is 10 times the age of your house and in serious need of improved insulation. It's on the list. Strangely even though the remodeling has cut down on the amount of wind that blows through the walls the floors are colder now then they were before.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

If you want i can point you to a place that sells used foam board insulation. Cut with a knife and install.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You make it sound so simple, yet you don't know my house.  Insulation should have been installed before the floor was raised. I don't know why we or our contractor didn't see that before the job was done. Now, I believe, insulation will have to be blown in under the floor. Which will most likely mean boring holes through the exterior walls.

I'm going to get the Aeon Heating and Cooling people who insulated my new building to come by and look things over.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Interesting. Are you talking ground level floor or upstairs floor?


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

snl said:


> Dang, I'd hate to see your utility (heating) bill!!!


I own 25 acres of forest. I burn about 10-15 cords of wood a year. This year I have burned 13+ cords. I only have 1 cord of seasoned wood left. In the pasture I have about 20 cord in log length ready to be bucked and split for next year. The oil furnace comes on at night. I live in a old farm house that is drafty and cold. Without the wood I would spend $3000+ in oil.

You know what's crazy? This morning it was 3° and it felt warm!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> Interesting. Are you talking ground level floor or upstairs floor?


My ground floor. It used to be at a couple of different levels from one end of the house to the other and now it is level from one end to the other. As is the ceiling now too.

The outer walls of our house were planks w/out any insulation value beyond their thickness. Now we have insulated studded walls inside those plank walls. On the main floor, the ground floor. All of which sits on a stone foundation above an uninsulated and unheated cellar.

Did I mention this house was built in 1860? It's an old farm house.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

In the news this morning our average temp for upstate ny in feb is 9.4 degrees. will be coldest on record. at least our bees are in sc but its been cold there also. snow yesterday. hard winter this year. late splits this yr.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Gee that must have cost a bunch of money leveling out your house. Some well built homes from that era would be nice to have once renovated. I couldnt imagine burning 13 cord of firewood to heat my house in the winter. Im hoping once i have my new shop and honey house built i only go thru 1400 a year in coal. Though i have also been considering solar panels and electric heat


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Our monthly Bill all year round is $350.00, this year. I expect it will be going up.


Wow Mark do you have a big house? That is about what mine is for a duplex that I own in New York Mills, 3000 sq ft. Maybe you burn fuel to heat space for your business. And yes, you can expect the price of oil to increase. We had our short free ride.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

BMAC said:


> I use anthracite coal to heat my house. Less mess than wood, much easier than wood, and diesel is meant for trucks not homes


same here, i did add r30 above the r30 already in the attic. How good has your coal been the last few years? mine has gone down hill rapidly.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> On the main floor, the ground floor. All of which sits on a stone foundation above an uninsulated and unheated cellar.
> 
> Did I mention this house was built in 1860? It's an old farm house.


instead of insulating the ground floor, you should look at a coal stove and heat your cellar and pipe the heat upstairs. If you don't have a fire place they have direct vents that will go right through the walls. Only restriction I found was a max length on the direct vent pipe of 10 feet. If I had to rely on the propane, I would go bankrupt, and my drive way is so steep, they deliver in Nov. and never will come up it again till april, mayby. First year I lived here we were down to 10% of a 1000lb tank by spring, even showers were getting short.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> All of which sits on a stone foundation above an uninsulated and unheated cellar.
> 
> Did I mention this house was built in 1860? It's an old farm house.


It is expensive but spray foam is your best solution. Basement have a dirt floor? Both my houses are over 150 years old so we are in the same era. Both of my houses have heated cellars due to heat lose from the boiler or furnaces.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Mike if you heat the basement it will burn more fuel. No way around that.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

wildbranch2007 said:


> same here, i did add r30 above the r30 already in the attic. How good has your coal been the last few years? mine has gone down hill rapidly.


Mike this is my first year with coal. I have heard from my coal dealer quality of bulk coal has crashed over the last two years. The coal i am buying is from blashak coal mine and comes in neat tidy 40lbs bags. I really have no comparison. I do like using coal. I bought a new stove that heats up to 4000 sq foot home and in our 2500 sq ft home we only go thru about 40 lbs a day in these single digit days. A little bit more on the windy days but maybe by 10 lbs. most days evenings in 20 and 30s it seems like we go thru a bag every day and a half.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Mike if you heat the basement it will burn more fuel. No way around that.


I would insulate the floor and wear socks. If its a finished basement with insulation then a heated basement is the way to go


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Acebird said:


> Mike if you heat the basement it will burn more fuel. No way around that.


the coal stove I have has a blower, you use insulated pipe to get the heat up stairs, the stove itself heats the cellar warmer than no heat at all, so no extra fuel as your thermostat is upstairs, also helps to keep pipes from freezing.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

BMAC said:


> Mike this is my first year with coal. I have heard from my coal dealer quality of bulk coal has crashed over the last two years. The coal i am buying is from blashak coal mine and comes in neat tidy 40lbs bags. I really have no comparison. I do like using coal. I bought a new stove that heats up to 4000 sq foot home and in our 2500 sq ft home we only go thru about 40 lbs a day in these single digit days. A little bit more on the windy days but maybe by 10 lbs. most days evenings in 20 and 30s it seems like we go thru a bag every day and a half.


did the dealer say why the quality crashed? Mine said that the Chinese started buying up all the coal about 3-4 years ago, so they ship the good stuff over there, and we get the scraps. I got a ton 2 years ago that was so bad, I spread it on the driveway to fill in the ruts. couldn't keep it burning. actually I've heard of blashak coal it's rated very good, none around here.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

wildbranch2007 said:


> the coal stove I have has a blower, you use insulated pipe to get the heat up stairs, the stove itself heats the cellar warmer than no heat at all, so no extra fuel as your thermostat is upstairs, also helps to keep pipes from freezing.


LOL, Mike you are kidding yourself. If you put the stove in the living room or kitchen you will burn less coal.


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

BMAC said:


> Mike this is my first year with coal. I have heard from my coal dealer quality of bulk coal has crashed over the last two years. The coal i am buying is from blashak coal mine and comes in neat tidy 40lbs bags. I really have no comparison. I do like using coal. I bought a new stove that heats up to 4000 sq foot home and in our 2500 sq ft home we only go thru about 40 lbs a day in these single digit days. A little bit more on the windy days but maybe by 10 lbs. most days evenings in 20 and 30s it seems like we go thru a bag every day and a half.


I never understood why stove manufacturers list how many sq feet the stove will heat. Does it heat 4000 sq feet in Green Bay, WI or Jacksonville, FL? Where was it tested that it heated that amount of sq feet? lol


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

wildbranch2007 said:


> did the dealer say why the quality crashed? Mine said that the Chinese started buying up all the coal about 3-4 years ago, so they ship the good stuff over there, and we get the scraps. I got a ton 2 years ago that was so bad, I spread it on the driveway to fill in the ruts. couldn't keep it burning. actually I've heard of blashak coal it's rated very good, none around here.


pm me if you want to try some. I am very happy with it. No my dealer didnt state why the quality crashed. He just mentioned there is alot of other junk in it. Too bad china isnt buying bituminous coal.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Eddie Honey said:


> I never understood why stove manufacturers list how many sq feet the stove will heat. Does it heat 4000 sq feet in Green Bay, WI or Jacksonville, FL? Where was it tested that it heated that amount of sq feet? lol


 the stove is built in Ashland Ohio and these stoves are constantly tested every winter thru out upstate NY and Ohio. Im not a stove manufacturer or stove expert, but if its been rated i have to trust the manufacturer follows a stove rating standard. If i am to guess i would say the stoves rating has to do with BTU output. I certainly can give you the address of the company that made the stove if you want to send them a letter and ask. After using it thru the -15 degree temps this winter and my house easily stayed 72-75 degrees on those days is proof its good enough for my house.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Acebird said:


> LOL, Mike you are kidding yourself. If you put the stove in the living room or kitchen you will burn less coal.


and your wife will shoot you


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

here you go mark, look at the q+a section for why you should use the diesel additives, block heater is nice, but if the fuel gels, still won't start.

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5496_fb_SummerWinterDieselConditioner.htm


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

BMAC;1226215 but if its been rated i have to trust the manufacturer follows a stove rating standard. If i am to guess i would say the stoves rating has to do with BTU output. [/QUOTE said:


> I can testify to the fact that my stove is rated for less sq footage than my house, largest size I could get at the time with a direct vent on top so that I could make the 10ft length,
> when it gets down to around 10 F, I get great efficiency as the stove is running at 100% all of the time, my blower motor hasn't shut off since somewhere around the beginning of Jan.  Bmac thanks for the offer for the coal, but since I can't get it around here easily I will have to pass. I have found one place that has coal from two different mines, one is good but dirty, the other not so good, only problem is the owner know's what he has, none of his sons do, so I have to take my chances.


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## jrhoto (Mar 2, 2009)

We heat with an outdoor furnace and burn hardwood,we have used almost a tandem truck load of oak and hickory ,this furnace cuts way down on electric bills and heats our hot water.We have 6 more inches of snow this morning.

poor valley bee farm


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> Does it heat 4000 sq feet in Green Bay, WI or Jacksonville, FL? 

...and is that an old frame farmhouse with no insulation or a house with two foot thick brick walls or a house with 6" of insulation?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

jrhoto said:


> We heat with an outdoor furnace and burn hardwood,we have used almost a tandem truck load of oak and hickory ,this furnace cuts way down on electric bills and heats our hot water.We have 6 more inches of snow this morning.


I had one at my previous house for 15 years, used to go through 10 real cords a year, but was wonderful except when I had to go load it during a snow storm. Wood around me is too expensive compared to where I lived, so went with the coal. To go along with BMAC's avg temp for the month of Feb being the coldest since 1900, we have the second highest total for snow fall ever in Feb. and I thought last year was a pain in the bottom line


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

We used the outside boiler before. Very unhappy with that stove. Very wasteful of wood. Glad we no longer have it


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Let's get back to beekeeping. If you want to talk heating, wood stoves, fuel cost, etc., go to Tailgater.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, today in my area of East TN, the weather warmed up,:thumbsup: most of the snow has melted,:thumbsup::thumbsup: and while walking by my hives I noticed they appeared to be be engaged in so-called 'cleansing flights'.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Barry said:


> Let's get back to beekeeping. If you want to talk heating, wood stoves, fuel cost, etc., go to Tailgater.


too much danger over there:lookout:


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Well, today in my area of East TN, the weather warmed up,:thumbsup: most of the snow has melted,:thumbsup::thumbsup: and while walking by my hives I noticed they appeared to be be engaged in so-called 'cleansing flights'.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Winter doesn't usually bother me, but I snow shoe'd up to the hives at the house yesterday, 12 hives, only six were high enough above the snow that I could get down low enough to listen and see if they were still alive, 6 out of 6 making noise, but as yours are doing clensing flights, mine have been finding any opening and using that to go, the outside of the hives are really disgusting, hope the inside's are in better shape. Wed is scheduled to get up to 40!!


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

This coming Wednesday in SC....................... 80 wonderful degrees! Almost time for splits.............


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

last year was called the polar vortex, what the heck does that make this year.

Monthly Degree Day Comparison (Station: NYMA View Map)
Base Year (2014)	Comparison Year (2015)	Comparison Percentages
Month	HDD	CDD	TDD	HDD	CDD	TDD	HDD	CDD	TDD
January	1234	0	1234	1315	0	1315	6% 6%
February	1086	0	1086	1363	0	1363	25% 25%

sorry can't get them to stay lined up


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is one way ...

```
Monthly Degree Day Comparison (Station: NYMA View Map)

2014            2015
Base Year 	Comparison Year 	Comparison Percentages
Month	HDD	CDD	TDD	HDD	CDD	TDD	HDD	CDD	TDD
January	1234	0	1234	1315	0	1315	6%	6%
February	1086	0	1086	1363	0	1363	25%	25%
```

That was done with the "Code" button on the "Go Advanced" menu.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here is one way ...
> 
> That was done with the "Code" button on the "Go Advanced" menu.


thanks Rader, now if I only remember next time


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

wildbranch2007 said:


> Winter doesn't usually bother me, but I snow shoe'd up to the hives...as yours are doing clensing flights, mine have been finding any opening and using that to go, *the outside of the hives are really disgusting*, hope the inside's are in better shape.


My snowshoes have been getting used too. I would never have thought I'd own any, never had a desire to, but they have become a necessity, as has a big plastic sled/boggin.

The hives that I think are Italians are getting really nasty, seems they are less inclined to fly and just hang their butts out the top entrance and let loose. The Carniolans do a lot better, they'll get out and fly even when temps have only been in the teens. One of the Carni hives had splatters the size of a quarter around it, by far the biggest I've seen, they must have been really desperate.


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## lcweitz (Mar 4, 2015)

Things in Philadelphia, PA have been pretty rough.

I joined the forum to see if I could get advice on dealing with the polar vortex. 

I've been keeping bees here for 5 years, and the last two have been demoralizing due to wild and unusual temperature fluctuations. Every winter we leave each hive about 60lbs of honey, plenty of pollen, and start feeding in February to boost brood. Last winter one hive survived and we made 3 splits, bought another nuc and made splits when that hive was booming. We went into this winter strong, and now all our hives are dead. 

When I lifted the top of the hives off, thousands of dead bees fell out. There have been around 5 days when daytime temps reach 60f and sunny, dropping to below freezing an hour before sunset. 

Do I just lock my girls in the hive until April? I'm getting a bit desperate here...


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

was there any honey left, did you treat for mites, do you leave top ventilation for your hives, did you find any brood being raised when you checked out the hive, if so pull some out and let us know what it looks like. I'm not sure about Phily for the 60 lbs, someone else will have to answer that, but if all the dead bees are on top they may have run out of stores.
for next year there are some threads showing how to make blocks of sugar to put on the top of the hives. did you start feeding in Feb. this year? With all the cold you could end up with to much moisture in the hive and they drown when it warms up, was there a lot of water in the hive.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mike, you asked all my questions.


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## lcweitz (Mar 4, 2015)

Thanks for the quick response and good questions. There was brood being raised, plenty of honey and pollen in all hives, there was good ventilation, no mold, no condensation. No mites were present when we winterized in November, no signs of mites now. We usually start with the sugar water in February to stimulate brood to build up the numbers for spring nectar flow. We've had 3 years of outstanding success prior to the winter of '13-'14. I'll crack open the brood cells and see what's in there, as per your request.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

lcweitz said:


> No mites were present when we winterized in November, no signs of mites now. .


How do you know? Did you test? Did you treat?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

lcweitz said:


> We usually start with the sugar water in February to stimulate brood to build up the numbers for spring nectar flow.


I don't see why you have to stimulate the bees to build brood in February. They know when the proper time is to do it if you don't feed.  If you leave them enough honey you don't have to do anything in winter. That I know.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Acebird said:


> I don't see why you have to stimulate the bees to build brood in February. They know when the proper time is to do it if you don't feed. If you leave them enough honey you don't have to do anything in winter.


 or in the Spring......

Ace, for once I agree with you!


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

lcweitz said:


> We usually start with the sugar water in February to stimulate brood to build up the numbers for spring nectar flow. We've had 3 years of outstanding success prior to the winter of '13-'14.


I don't put the syrup to them until I see them bringing back plenty of pollen. I don't give them pollen or sub. When ma nature says it's time, when the maples and poplars start budding, then I'll give 'em the syrup to stimulate.



acebird said:


> If you leave them enough honey you don't have to do anything in winter. That I know.


Sometimes it's hard to know what is "enough". Mother Nature can be a real *****. What was enough one year may not be enough the next. I usually leave at least one full deep, this year, that may not have been enough.


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## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

Any one want to make a bet that this weekend is the end of the longest winter in memory for NYS. It looks like it going to be 40+ from then on........we'll see.........sure hope so! We have to get through the next two days of slush first though!


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## lcweitz (Mar 4, 2015)

That's great to know! Next time I'll try to go without supplemental feeding. I'm just going by what has worked in the past, and how I was taught by other beekeepers. It's good to know that other folks have had success using other methods.


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## lcweitz (Mar 4, 2015)

Yes, we tested in the autumn. All was clear.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> What was enough one year may not be enough the next.


Where I live there is little concern for too much so "enough" means worst case. I don't think it is "enough" that is the problem in most cases. I think most people will leave "enough" for worst cases but the colony dwindles in numbers (multiple reasons) and can't get to what is there. There is a growing desire to over winter nucs and these are most affected in a really bad winter.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Margot1d said:


> We have to get through the next two days of slush first though!


When you just about live in NJ it is slush but half way up the state it is still snow and ice and tug hill hasn't given up yet so bring your snow mobiles. I know you guys had it real rough this year.


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