# Smoking with thyme



## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

I can't speak for the others, but I've tried smoking with tobacco, and it hasn't had any detectable effect on the mites. If you closed the hive up with some smouldering tobacco in it, and left it, that might work, but simple smoking doesn't seem to.


----------



## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

Had not thought of that one - I have Thyme and peppermint in my herb garden - just need to add some lemongrass and can realy make the bees happy to be robbed.


----------



## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I use Staghorn Sumac in my smoker and have found no help for controling the mites but it seems to calm the more agressive hives when I have to use smoke.
I'll have to experiment with the walnut leaves as I have 20 to 30 black walnut trees at home.
Clint


----------



## Lesli St. Clair (Jan 3, 2005)

I can't say what effect there was on mites, but I often add a handful or sage or another herb to my smoker, more for my olfactory pleasure than anything else. Last year was my first year, so there are no hard numbers on mites in my colonies. I was doing drone brood frames and sugar shakes. Never found a mite in a sugar shake, and only 5 in a full, two-sided frame of drone brood. 

So far, the colony is coming through the winter fine.


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

My bees seem to like rosemary.


----------



## YBCute (Oct 18, 2004)

I'd try pizzia and a beer if it would help. Sumac seems to have an amount of oil in it. Then it goes right back to FGMO, oil. I also picked a large amount last fall. Wrap it up inside some cotton cloth. Along with what ever else is on the ground around me. I use FGMO also and checked almost 90 colonies today. All are doing fine but there is still 6 weeks to go for winter.14 degrees outside with sun on the colonies and the stupid russians are all over the front of the hives.


----------



## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I've tried sumac last fall with EXCELLENT mite knock down, two or three times the amount of FGMO (plain, no thymol). 

With sumac, I loaded the going smoker with staghorn seed heads. They tend to burn a little fast, and a little hot. The smoke is tinged with yellow and it STINKS. My bees do not care for it and will soon be evacuating the hive.

Mites dropping on a sticky board will increase. What the real mechanism that creates this increase is up for grabs.  Is it the smoke, or is it the ingredients that we smoke? One might presume that ANY smoke would move the bees around, and the movement of bees would dislodge the mites. Any thoughts out there?

I heard one person suggest that fogging plain water in a burgess fogger (they're made for water soluble insecticides) is also helpful.

I don't know, not having tried fogging plain water, but it sure would prevent residues!

Which to me raises the real question, is it the ACTION of fogging that contributes to the increased mite fall more than the SUBSTANCE that is fogged?

No doubt there are some substances believed to decrease the mites, i.e. thymol. But I also wonder if the presence of the fog/smoke doesn't also play a role.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The Burgess fogger is made for oil soluble insecticides disolved in FGMO. I think you'd just get steam, if it even works. Steam cleaning the bees will probably kill the mites. It will probably kill the bees too.









Some of the "studies" on the Sumac and other smokes was comparing one with the other, so it doesn't seem to be just smoke. It's possible the Sumac has oils in it that act like the FGMO does in the sense that it puts a very thin coating on that the bees groom and grooming gets the mites off.


----------



## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

If the bees are leaving the hive when smoked with sumac then your smoke is too hot.
Clint


----------



## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Thanks, clinton. No doubt smoke is plenty hot. Going down the line with the smoker treating the hives really gets the fire going.

But the smoke is quite acrid. Even I don't like hanging around the bee yard after smoking the sumac.

Again, my experience is limited. By counting the mites before and after, and comparing sumac to some non-sumac treated and untreated hives, I was impressed.


----------



## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I do have to admit that standing up wind is a great help. Try putting in some green grass or leaves with the sumac to cool down the smoke.
Clint


----------



## east_stingray (Feb 8, 2005)

I can't believe that russians were outside the hives in 14 degree weather.


----------



## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

So if it is the contents of the sumac and not just the smoke is what knocks down the mites. can we soak sumac in FGMO run it in a blender and strain it then fog???


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Let us know how it works.


----------



## thekeeper (Nov 24, 2004)

Has anyone tried smoking with sumac and sealing off hive like with oa to see if that helpss with the mite drop.
Also can beleive russians are out in 14 degrees.Usually means not efficient circulation of fresh air.Air go stail they will leave or die I would check on fresh air circulation if they are in overwintering conditions.


----------



## The Honey House (May 10, 2000)

Celsius 14 is approximately Fahrenheit 57


----------



## thekeeper (Nov 24, 2004)

Da he ment Fahrenheit. Russians like the cooler weather.I live in MN russian live just fine thru winter.They come out when its 10*F just is their make up i guess.


----------



## The Honey House (May 10, 2000)

I very seriously doubt that any honey bee, regardless of race, would be out flying around at 14 degrees Fahrenheit(negative 10 C). I have heard that the Russian bee does favor slightly cooler weather as does certain strains of Carniolans but there is no way (under normal circumstances) they will be free flying. Solar heating of the hive in late winter may cause a few to wander about on the landing board. Maybe if you went up and kick the heck out of the hive you'd get a few to come out but other than that, they'll be staying clustered inside. Da

ve V


----------



## Jason Groppel (Jul 17, 2003)

I don't think they said any were flying, but still...10*, that seems hard to believe.
Maybe they were those new HSRB (hybrid suicidal Russian bees). I lived in Missouri for 9 years so I guess I would say, "show me". 
As to the mite drop, by watching how the mites and bees react in an observation hive, I have learned much about why mites drop. From the few observations I have made with FGMO and regular wood / leaf / paper smoke, I noticed the bees become very active and some mites even begin to travel upon the combs and since they are not the most tenacious on the combs, they will get knocked off or fall off in the scurry and sudden gush of wind created by the thousands of bee wings. It is amazing how fast those little wings can make the smoke move out!
Jason


----------



## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>since they are not the most tenacious on the combs, they will get knocked off or fall off in the scurry and sudden gush of wind created by the thousands of bee wings

From what I've seen of mites in my hives those little critters seem to be quite adept getting around on the edge of combs or on bees. I've picked up bees that have had a mite on it and tried dislodging the mite with a piece of straw or small stick. They hang on quite well and will scurry all over the bee when I try to poke them off. But you say the bees blow them off when they try fanning the smoke?


----------



## Lesli St. Clair (Jan 3, 2005)

I have to wonder whether FGMO and other treatments of that type simply increase grooming, which knocks off mites--in addition to smothering a few. 

If you sprayed sugar syrup all over the bees, I'll bet that would knock a few mites off, too.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sugar syrup MIGHT. Powdered sugar will. I'd rather not get them all wet and sticky.


----------



## Lesli St. Clair (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm going to blast my packages with powdered sugar this spring before I hive them. Since I had nucs last year, I couldn't observe the bees much before hiving them. Should be interesting to watch them through the mesh for a bit. 

Since I'm picking them up in Ohio and bringing them back to NY in my car, can anyone suggest bee friendly music? Do you think they'd prefer classical, or maybe country?


----------



## GreenMountainRose (Sep 6, 2004)

Flight of the Bumblebee??? The Bee Gees??

How do other people pre-treat packages for mites when they first get them? I was wondering how much time they need to "recover" from a treatment before spraying them with sugar syrup to hive them? 


Vaughan Stevie Ray - Honey Bee Song Lyrics

Like a queen bee's honey....Your as sweet as can be
I'm the king baby....Buzz with me
Dive in your hive....And into your life
Tell me little baby that you'll buzz me all the time


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How do other people pre-treat packages for mites when they first get them?

I don't. But the powdered sugar is the most appealing followed by Oxalic Acid. But you could do the Oxalic after they are hived but before they cap any brood.

> I was wondering how much time they need to "recover" from a treatment before spraying them with sugar syrup to hive them? 

That probably depends on the treatment, but the sugar, I'd go ahead and hive them. But I've never spayed them with sugar syrup. I certainly wouldn't after treating them with powdered sugar.

The first thing I do as SOON as I get a package is feed them. Get some syrup on the side of the screen for them to eat. I've even put honey right on the side. If they've been fed they will hive fairly nicely. Full bees want to cluster somewhere. Hungry bees want to sting you.


----------



## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

>How do other people pre-treat packages for mites when they first get them?>

I used oxalic last year, one dose evaporated in the entrance about 5 days after hiving them. All three did very well last year, so I'm going to do the same this year.

I'm not sure it's actually helping, but as long as it doesn't hurt, it's tough for me to pass up a broodless period.


----------



## jaydee (Oct 12, 2004)

Is this just regular powdered sugar like you buy at Grocery store or is it a specific type?

James


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Regular powdered sugar.


----------



## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

In reply to the tobacco smoke for mite it works well for knock down but keep this in mind. What Knocks the mites down is the nicotine which is a deadly poison. Nicotine will also knock down and/or kill bees so proceed with caution. Staghorn Sumac Fruit Clusters (dried) work well in smokers although I know nothing about the mite aspect. Stay away from varieties with white berry (fruit)clusters.


----------

