# What the heck is mowing our wax foundation like a lawn mower mows the lawn?



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The hives need a mouseguard.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The hives need more bees to safeguard the precious combs. The winter cold lately with frosty 
nights will make them brittle too. If no mouse then reduced your hive entrance a bit. Mine are still at
2 bees space now. Or you can protect these empty frames somewhere inside the house.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> The hives need a mouseguard.


Yep, unfortunately I do know exactly what caused that too.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

+1 on the "it's mice".


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the clarity. Well, I am kinda happy it wasn't wax moth or the beetle.

At this time I can't set out mouse poison or traps because I have our sheep out in this area too. I will need to fence in the hives before taking care of the mice challenge.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

A little hardware cloth is less work than a fence, more effective and works today. Can't say that it would keep out the sheep though.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

You don't have to poison them, not that I'm against killing mice or rats or lots of things, but it's easier to put mouse guards on the hives in the fall.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Here is a pic of the mouseguards I use, in winter they get nailed on the front of the hive, the entrance slot is cut just high enough for a bee but keeps out mice, helps the bees deal with robbing bees also.

As per Saltybee, hardware cloth of the right guage, or any number of other things can be used.

It is good beekeeping to apply some sort of entrance guard in fall, the entrance should not be left wide open.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

OT, that's the biggest ugliest dead queen bee I've ever seen.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Ha . It's a NZ insect known as a weta. Almost certainly tried to enter the hive thinking it would be a place to hide but got overwhelmed by the bees. This one is the female of the species as seen by it's ovipositor.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Here's the mouse guard some of us use.....


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

If you don't have hardware cloth, just take some brads and nail them across the entrance reducer opening every 3/8". Make the heads level with the top of the entrance reducer board. Bees can get through but mice can't.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Soar, the reason that I'm good at ID'ing mouse damage is because I apparently have an oasis for mice and EVEN TODAY found a hive with all comb ruined. It was a dead out that I left on the stand and thought I had the hive closed up where a mouse couldn't get into it. Wrong. Ten deep frames and 10 mediums ruined. I think I've gotten to the age that I need a checklist.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yup, one stupid litle mouse can sure wreak havock and do some expensive damage!


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Yup, one stupid litle mouse can sure wreak havock and do some expensive damage!


The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

At school, I was required to learn that poem by heart, and questions on it were in an important exam.


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

Thanks again everyone for your input.

The best laid schemes of mice and men often go awry....so true...

Well, I counted 8 hives today that the mice managed to make go awry...so my best laid scheme of a nice apiary has been temporarily messed up.

I have the 1/2 inch hardware wire...and hope to install some this next week.

In the mean time, I have made do with what I had: Poison for mice placed temporarily under the hives for tonight only...and please do not ask me what type of poison I used...I will not say...there are far too many green peace, sierra club, save the earth liberal wackos at Beesource...and they like to use fear and intimidation if you do not subscribe to their form of insanity...

No apologies, I have chosen to fight back against these mice...they really ate a lot of wax...

And besides, the poem does say something about bait, grief and pain. I have decided the mice will experience the grief and pain...not me!

Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim’rous beastie, 
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie! 
Thou need na start awa sae hasty, 
Wi’ bickerin brattle! 
I wad be laith to rin an’ chase thee 
Wi’ murd’ring pattle! 

I’m truly sorry Man’s dominion 
Has broken Nature’s social union, 
An’ justifies that ill opinion, 
Which makes thee startle, 
At me, thy poor, earth-born companion, 
An’ fellow-mortal! 

I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve; 
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live! 
A daimen-icker in a thrave 
’S a sma’ request: 
I’ll get a blessin wi’ the lave, 
An’ never miss ’t! 

Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin! 
It’s silly wa’s the win’s are strewin! 
An’ naething, now, to big a new ane, 
O’ foggage green! 
An’ bleak December’s winds ensuin, 
Baith snell an’ keen! 

Thou saw the fields laid bare an’ waste, 
An’ weary Winter comin fast, 
An’ cozie here, beneath the blast, 
Thou thought to dwell, 
Till crash! the cruel coulter past 
Out thro’ thy cell. 

That wee-bit heap o’ leaves an’ stibble 
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble! 
Now thou’s turn’d out, for a’ thy trouble, 
But house or hald, 
To thole the Winter’s sleety dribble, 
An’ cranreuch cauld! 

But Mousie, thou art no thy-lane, 
In proving foresight may be vain: 
The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men 
Gang aft agley, 
An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain, 
For promis’d joy! 

Still, thou art blest, compar’d wi’ me! 
The present only toucheth thee: 
But Och! I backward cast my e’e, 
On prospects drear! 
An’ forward tho’ I canna see, 
I guess an’ fear!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Peace is good, even if it is green. Hopefully none of the mice will take there final poisoned breath in the hives


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

We have had a major problem with rats and mice ever since the removal of 37 feral cats. Our neighbor fed 30-40 cats for years, then suddenly, packed up and moved one day. It was awful. Starving desperate cats everywhere. It got so bad that if we were having a barbecue and went into the house for something, then came right back out, the meat on the barbecue would be gone!

After the cats were removed, a massive influx of mice and rats. We killed over 40 rats and hundreds of mice last year alone. I am thinking to bring in some domesticated cats that have good ability to catch, kill, and eat the rodents. Anyone have a good suggestion as to which species of cat would work best?


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## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

Only put the mouse guards in place when it's warm enough to fly. When bees are clustered, mice enter. When they become active mice leave. You don't want to lock them in your hives.


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## Wosiewose (Oct 31, 2015)

soarwitheagles said:


> I am thinking to bring in some domesticated cats that have good ability to catch, kill, and eat the rodents. Anyone have a good suggestion as to which species of cat would work best?


Just MHO, but I think any species of cat would do a great job so long as they'd had some hunting lessons from mama kitty. In other words... if you can find some outdoor cats who were raised on a farm, they have a better chance of knowing what to do and how to do it, than pampered house cats (like my two little darlings, lol). Not that a house cat can't catch mice, but farm cats generally have more experience and are really efficient at it.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Really, trying to trap or poison all the mice and shrews is a big undertaking. Go and have a look in a mirror and you will see the problem That is the one that left the welcome mat out for the mice to come in! Put mouse guards on early in the fall.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

soarwitheagles said:


> We have had a major problem with rats and mice ever since the removal of 37 feral cats. Our neighbor fed 30-40 cats for years, then suddenly, packed up and moved one day. It was awful. Starving desperate cats everywhere. It got so bad that if we were having a barbecue and went into the house for something, then came right back out, the meat on the barbecue would be gone!
> 
> After the cats were removed, a massive influx of mice and rats. We killed over 40 rats and hundreds of mice last year alone. I am thinking to bring in some domesticated cats that have good ability to catch, kill, and eat the rodents. Anyone have a good suggestion as to which species of cat would work best?


I'm over-run with mice and rats here too. I was letting my cats help, but, we have some things here that like to eat cats, so that didn't work out so well. I don't try to run the ferals off, and though the neighbors encourage people to shoot the fox that keeps killing their chickens, when I see him here I leave him alone, because I see him hunting the mice and rats. I have a couple of harriers and a kestrel that come every summer, and they help.

I also taught the dog to catch and kill them, but it's more like a game to her and they breed faster than she can get them. I have my eye on a new .22 revolver to load up with shot shells to take out the ones I scare up when I'm mowing.

On a side note- I inadvertently left some drawn frames on the porch, mixed in with some never-used frames, and something has really chewed the bejabbers out of them, some are completely unusable now. I think it was bigger than a mouse.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

On a side note- I inadvertently left some drawn frames on the porch said:


> Red or grey squirrel.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Riverderwent said:


> The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
> Gang aft a-gley.


“I don't know if you know the meaning of the word ‘agley’, Kipper, but that, to put it in a nutshell, is the way things have ganged.” Wooster (P.G. Wodehouse)


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Most breeds of cat will work if they are kept mildly hungry. :thumbsup:


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Soar, how clean an area do you have the hives in? You said mice moved in when cats moved out. We don't have any cats at all. I have bees in 3 places on our farm. Some behind my house, some in a pasture beside our pond and some behind a hay barn. The hives at my house have not had any problems with mice. The other two locations have. My point being, if these hives are in your yard, how much undergrowth is around them? Mice have to have cover to stay away from natural predators. If you have grown up grass or something around the hives, the only way to prevent mice problems is mouse guards.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

To keep mice out of hives, sort it properly by using mouseguards.

If a large mouse population needs eradicating use rat bait, a cat or two won't do it. Maybe 40 cats will but that's not really practicle for most of us.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> To keep mice out of hives, sort it properly by using mouseguards.
> 
> If a large mouse population needs eradicating use rat bait, a cat or two won't do it. Maybe 40 cats will but that's not really practicle for most of us.


Forty cats or one fox. Coyotes move in, foxes and cats disappear. Rather have the fox.


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

Some awesome ideas again. Thank you gentlemen.

Here's some answers to your questions:

Have kept bees here for a few years [3-4?], but never had a problem with any mice hitting the hives...not even one. This is the first year we have experienced it. So when I looked in the mirror, I realized it is not my fault. Hint, hint.

For the first couple of years, allowed the grass to grow all around the hives. Being in the most dangerous of all fire zones, decided not a good idea...esp. with all the smoker usage. Last summer I took our tractor and scraped everything clean, it was simply way too dangerous when using fire every time.

Each year here is different. Example: during the drought, massive invasion of possibly millions of earwigs for years. Last year with the good rains, now we have tens of thousands of frogs. Earwig problem is solved.

Two years ago had several kits of foxes. Sneaky little animals. Some of our neighbors have a special dislike for foxes. I saw a number of them mounted on fences or nearby bridges...no apologies from them at all!

Then had a massive invasion of possums. Someone I know trapped every one of them alive and relocated them alive...and no, I will not say who because of our sierra club, green party, peta [or is it pita] psychos, and other twisted people who love and value animals more than humans.

I also know of a person that live traps the rats uninjured, then chills them so they are a little slow, and then uses them for target practice. Personally, I think it is a wonderful idea. Honing his shooting skills and eliminating pests all in one shot. I kind a like that.

Last year we had a problem with a mountain lion taking sheep and calves. 13 month old critter that brought tears to several locals and they were not tears of joy.

And now, my favorite part...a very special thank you to the person that enlightened me about mice strategies...they attack and steal when the bees are clustered, but not when the bees are active...dang, if only I would have know that sooner. Thank you for sharing your insights...

My choice of solution: I will make and install the 0.5" hardware cloth on all hives in the fall, then remove them when the bees are flying again on a consistent basis [March].

Good day to all!


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

soarwitheagles said:


> Some awesome ideas again. Thank you gentlemen.
> 
> 
> My choice of solution: I will make and install the 0.5" hardware cloth on all hives in the fall, then remove them when the bees are flying again on a consistent basis [March].
> ...


You do not have to wait for consistent flying weather. If you could pull the frame for the photo you should be able to tip up the hive body and look to see if they are in it (usually in the hive without the cluster) then put the cloth on. They are going to run for it as soon as you tip it up. If it was wax they would have chewed a nice hole in it and had a nest in there (and peed on everything).


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

As a commercial, waiting for good weather only to install mouseguards was not an option. So we did lock the odd mouse in, as evidenced by the propolised mummies we would find next spring. 

I think they must die pretty quick once locked in because of the number of them that had no mouse damage to the combs. I suspect the mouse panics once it realises it cannot get out, which attracts attention from the bees, bringing about a swift death for the mouse.

I also once had a co worker who took some kind of misplaced pleasure in placing various creatures from mice to lizards to whatever, above the queen excluder so he could later look at the mummy. He kept his little fetish secret but I figured it out one day when I saw him furtively head for a specific hive and then go, "hey look what I found!" After seeing him do the same thing several times over the next few weeks I knew it was deliberate although I never told him I knew.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks OT.
Cancer has left me with no desire to kill without a purpose. I have no quarrel with a field mouse, a lawnmower and a guard will keep it that way.
Mice in a house or rats in a barn require poison, clean kill is not going to get it done. That's a job not a joy. 
I take responsibility for the damage to whatever eats what I poisoned, not that my awareness does them much good.


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

Salty Bee,

So sorry to hear about your cancer and hope you will be 100% healed of it.

I must be 100% honest...I have ongoing quarrels with field mice and rats.

Rats and mice are major disease carriers. Three years ago, I came home, picked up an open bag of nuts in the Ag building, and devoured it...not knowing mice had been in it and left large amounts of feces within. I became real sick. Needless to say, several days later, after going to the doctor for blood work, the county health department called me and informed me they were informed by the hospital that I had contracted some weird disease and that by law they were required to contact me and ask real specific questions...

Next, 40+ rats invaded our chicken coup. At first, we could not understand why there were large holes in our chickens...then we discovered the rats were actually taking chunks of chicken torso on a daily basis. They were not happy with stealing hundreds of pounds of chicken feed.

Mice and rats both leave feces all over in our different buildings...so yeah, I have a quarrel with mice and rats...the good news is we are presently winning every battle with these varmints and will continue to win.

But, back to the bees...

Here is a pic of our nucs from last year. You can see there is not much grass for the mice to hide in...but we are surrounded 360 degrees by forest...


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## thesecurityeagle (Jun 21, 2016)

Brad Bee said:


> Soar, the reason that I'm good at ID'ing mouse damage is because I apparently have an oasis for mice and EVEN TODAY found a hive with all comb ruined. It was a dead out that I left on the stand and thought I had the hive closed up where a mouse couldn't get into it. Wrong. Ten deep frames and 10 mediums ruined. I think I've gotten to the age that I need a checklist.


And a few hungry cats.....


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## herbhome (Oct 18, 2015)

Some years ago I had a goat dairy that was overrun with mice. A neighbor lent me a mechanical trap and in about a week it had caught at least a hundred. I think this is the same model but it was 35 years ago. Could be different. Scroll down about 2/3 of the way down the page.

http://www.bayexco.com/rodent-control-products


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

1/2 inch mesh won't keep mice out... better look to 1/4 inch.


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