# Lemongrass oil to syrup ratio



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

It has a very mixed reputation for safety, like all essential oils. It can also encourage robbing, which is the last thing a nuc needs. Personally, I don't use it. You can't go wrong with plain sugar syrup which in warm weather does not need enhancement to be taken up readily.

Enj.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Yeah. Lemongrass will call the robbers. Syrup is taken as far as temps are 50ish and up.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

EOs attract robbers. Probably the worst thing you can do to a nuc.

EOs also damage the bee's flora, making them more vulnerable to diseases like AFB and EFB.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My reasons for not using it would be robbing, confusing the colony with artificial pheromones, and killing off the microbes in the bees' guts.

IF you insist on using it, you can't just add it to the syrup. It will not dissolve, being an oil and syrup being a solution in water. You will need some kind of emulsifier. You can add essential oils to honey and let them set for a month or so and they will dissolve in the honey which will emulsify them. You can use lecithin. Honey Bee Healthy uses sodium lauryl sulfate. If you don't use an emulsifier then the oil will float to the top and be in concentrations that can kill bees.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

don't bother. if they are hungry they will take the syrup. use lmo in bait traps only. and even then only a drop or two.


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## Outdoor N8 (Aug 7, 2015)

I currently use Lemongrass oil and Wintergreen in my syrup. I have not had any problems with robbing, but I actively work my entrances.
MB is correct in oil and water do not mix and you will need to find a work-around that suits you.

I would highly encourage you to learn what the LD50 is for ANY essential oil you think about using.
Not all EO are made/processed the same.

Initially, I started feeding EO due to the W Virginia study on it's effects on varroa. Now, it is more of a marker. If my honey ever has a mint smell/taste when uncapping, it is not nectar but syrup, and would be fraudulent of me to present it as Honey.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Outdoor N8 said:


> I would highly encourage you to learn what the LD50 is for ANY essential oil you think about using.
> Not all EO are made/processed the same.


If the LD50 is a sufficient dose to kill 50 percent of a population, at what dose does it decrease bee longevity and increase bee mortality?

Food coloring might be a better marker, EOs evaporate away very quickly.


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## Outdoor N8 (Aug 7, 2015)

Even water has an LD50.....


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## StingerMcStung (Apr 27, 2015)

Outdoor N8 said:


> I currently use Lemongrass oil and Wintergreen in my syrup. I have not had any problems with robbing, but I actively work my entrances.
> MB is correct in oil and water do not mix and you will need to find a work-around that suits you.
> 
> I would highly encourage you to learn what the LD50 is for ANY essential oil you think about using.
> ...


Okay, so the question was ratio of LGO in syrup . . . needs emulsifier, great info that I hadn't considered. Without, asking how one determines the LD-50 for each specific race of honey bee. 

What LGO ratio to syrup and what emulsifier are you using? (sorry, encryption makes my head hurt  )


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

The most common emulsifier most people use is lecithin. You will find one of the many recipes for measurement / ratios here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?252307-Honey-B-Healthy-Recipe


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## StingerMcStung (Apr 27, 2015)

dudelt said:


> The most common emulsifier most people use is lecithin. You will find one of the many recipes for measurement / ratios here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?252307-Honey-B-Healthy-Recipe


Thank you! 

Since this thread was started in 2011, has anyone tweaked it so it needs less or is a simpler mix?

It occurred to me in my post to OutdoorN8, that perhaps I'm breaking some beekeeper code asking for sacred info that is only earned via dead-outs; in which case my apologies for noobie bluntness. 

I'm just trying to prepare to keep these bees alive as best as I can learn before they arrive.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

StingerMcStung said:


> I'm just trying to prepare to keep these bees alive as best as I can learn before they arrive.


Then you might want to stay away from EOs? Especially if you just want to flavor syrup.

Here the toxicity of 150 different EOs, and toxicity levels to adults and brood;

https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00891579/document


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## StingerMcStung (Apr 27, 2015)

Flower, I (now) understand that at certain levels EO's become toxic, just like Oxalic and formic acid do. 

But if used at proper dosages they seem to increase the bees' survival percentages. To what extent and as to whether it's worth messing with apparently depends on the beekeeper. Which makes it confusing to someone just starting.

Perhaps it's something to dabble with later when a loss could be more easily absorbed.

Thanks for all the replies.


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## Outdoor N8 (Aug 7, 2015)

PM sent


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Have made HBH using the EO's, some sunflower lecithin capsules that I cut open and squeezed the guts out of, and a blender.
Use a garage sale blender because once you use it for this...that's all it is good for. 

Avoided robbing by feeding from inside the colonies using baggies on top of the frames. Made shims.

If a colony gets weak it will get robbed , really fast if it's been fed HBH. 
Keep em strong!


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## StingerMcStung (Apr 27, 2015)

aunt betty said:


> If a colony gets weak it will get robbed , really fast if it's been fed HBH.
> Keep em strong!


So using it on a 5 frame nuc, with a reduced one or two bee wide entrance, wouldn't be a good idea?


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

StingerMcStung said:


> But if used at proper dosages they seem to increase the bees' survival percentages.


What's a proper dosage? What are you treating? 

What studies do you have that show increase survival percentages?


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## StingerMcStung (Apr 27, 2015)

FlowerPlanter said:


> What's a proper dosage? What are you treating?
> 
> What studies do you have that show increase survival percentages?


You're right Flower, the percentage was from local beekeepers and couldn't be used to substantiate any survival rates. I should have qualified the statement or have simply not made it.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

The reason most EOs are used in the first place is to do something good for the bees. Here's something that is good for your bees and scientific studies that show the benefits;

http://www.jas.org.pl/Impact-of-pol...lands-and-brood-area-in-honey-bees,0,158.html

http://www.jas.org.pl/Improvement-o...mentation-of-probiotic-preparations,0,76.html

www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3896/IBRA.1.51.3.07

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022191010000831


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## StingerMcStung (Apr 27, 2015)

FlowerPlanter said:


> The reason most EOs are used in the first place is to do something good for the bees. Here's something that is good for your bees and scientific studies that show the benefits;
> 
> http://www.jas.org.pl/Impact-of-pol...lands-and-brood-area-in-honey-bees,0,158.html
> 
> ...


Thanks FlowerPlanter, although the 3rd link threw a phishing error for me?

I understand the importance and value of studies and research and did more than I ever hope to do again, but IMO studies are limited by design and scope and they have to be that way to be practically carried out and duplicated.

That being said, I feel long term experience from people with decades, if not generations of working with bees is equally valuable. They might not be able to cite a study because there hasn't been one done that duplicates their unique set of variables (or climate,) yet I wouldn't discount their personal observations. Some may not know the 'why' but they know 'it works' for them.

I appreciate your posts as well as the non-cited 'personal experience' ones. I guess every new beekeeper collects and discards different management techniques until they become uniquely their own.

Thanks, Mark


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

4 drops of lemongrass oil per 1 gal. of sugar syrup. Never used emusifiers but mixed in a blender with 1/4 cup of water on low for 3 minutes. Used Eos for 10 years never lost a colony do to their use but had colonies thrive better than using standard treatments. Been treatment free for 13 yrs. and no longer use EOs. You can also add 1 drop of tea tree oil for use as a brood stimulant.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

The first summer I had bees, I guess I didn't have enough to do .... I mixed small amounts of EO in a blender, then added that to my syrup. ( per the FatBeeMan's podcast interview on somdbeekeeper.com/ )
One hive in particular robbed out the other hives, I now only use LGO in bait hives.

I would suggest that you not use LGO, and that you install robbing screens from the very start.
When your hives get robbed out in August, it is hard to recover before winter, even in Alabama.

But of course, there are many posters here who use EO's successfully, and recommend them.
What ever you choose, Good Luck with your bees. ... CE


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