# How to attach strip of foundation to frames



## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

If you have wedged topbars, you can pin it in with the wedge, or you can pour a bead of wax in and set the strip in it. You could also use popsicle sticks or something else you may have around.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

There is a tool made expecially for this, I think Dadant sells them. Called a "Wax Tube Fastener"

See the following Blog post and video about how to use:

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-use-wax-tube-fastener_26.html

Linda has lots of good information on her blog, look around while you are there.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'd rather use wood strips. But when I have used wax strips I've used the Wax Tube Fastener. It used to only be available from Walter T. Kelley, but now Dadant has it as well as some others. It used to be called the "Van Deusen Wax Tube Fastener" after the inventor.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/WaxTubeFastener.JPG

For just a few you can get by with a table spoon that has been bent to have a spout and scooping and pouring small amounts of beeswax with that.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

When I use starter strips of beeswax foundation, or even sheets of beeswax foundation, I prefer grooved top bars, so I fasten the beeswax foundation strip or sheet into the top groove by holding the frame upside-down and using a cheap paintbrush dipped in molten beeswax, I dab the liquid beeswax into the groove, around the foundation, it fills the groove between the beeswax foundation and the wood of the top bar, I do both sides and let it thoroughly cool down before turning it right-side-up. This has worked very well.


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## MoisesFromL.A (Jun 13, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> I'd rather use wood strips. But when I have used wax strips I've used the Wax Tube Fastener. It used to only be available from Walter T. Kelley, but now Dadant has it as well as some others. It used to be called the "Van Deusen Wax Tube Fastener" after the inventor.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/images/WaxTubeFastener.JPG
> 
> For just a few you can get by with a table spoon that has been bent to have a spout and scooping and pouring small amounts of beeswax with that.


I read from your website that foundation strips were fine and since my father use to do the same I was going that route. Now that you say to use the wood strips , I was curious about using popsicles stick and using a glue gun to set them in the groove. What do yall say about that?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The strips of wax foundation work fine. The strips of wood (popscicle sticks etc.) work as well but last longer. You only have to put them in once.


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## MoisesFromL.A (Jun 13, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> The strips of wax foundation work fine. The strips of wood (popscicle sticks etc.) work as well but last longer. You only have to put them in once.


Would using a glue gun be fine ? Do I need 1 popsicle stick in the middle or a couple across the top? Thanks for the responses :thumbsup:


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I tried the hot melt glue. The humidity inside the hive quickly caused it to fail. I cannot explain why, but the hot melt glue does not work on wooden bee equipment inside beehives.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

That would seem reasonable Joseph as the hot melt does not actually penetrate the timber just sits on the surface. So moisture would undermine it.

However, for my mating nucs which are natural comb, I attach wax foundation strips with hot melt glue, actually faster than using melted wax. Maybe the glue fails in time I don't know. But it does last long enough for the bees to build comb and get it attached in it's own right, so even if the glue fails the comb is still attached. I only use a few small drops of glue so the bees can attach most of the comb direct to the timber without relying on the glue, just in case it eventually fails.


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## MoisesFromL.A (Jun 13, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I tried the hot melt glue. The humidity inside the hive quickly caused it to fail. I cannot explain why, but the hot melt glue does not work on wooden bee equipment inside beehives.


Thanks...Thats the answer I was looking for. Wasnt sure if the glue would bond well.


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## MoisesFromL.A (Jun 13, 2011)

PAHunter62 said:


> There is a tool made expecially for this, I think Dadant sells them. Called a "Wax Tube Fastener"
> 
> See the following Blog post and video about how to use:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the video. Think I could use a syringe to substitue the fastener?


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

I have used the wax tub fastener. It worked well. With that said, I later converted to just using wood strips glued into a grooved top bar. Last year I painted the strip and top bar with wax. This year I plan to just install the wood strip and take them to the hive. To me it's all about my time and taking an approach that will last.


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## MoisesFromL.A (Jun 13, 2011)

PAHunter62 said:


> I have used the wax tub fastener. It worked well. With that said, I later converted to just using wood strips glued into a grooved top bar. Last year I painted the strip and top bar with wax. This year I plan to just install the wood strip and take them to the hive. To me it's all about my time and taking an approach that will last.


What type of glue do you use?


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## Desert Viking Ranch (Mar 1, 2011)

I like to try and keep things simple. I cut an approximately 2 inch wide strip about 6 inches long (the width of medium foundation), fold it in half lengthwise, pop it into the top bar groove and touch over it briefly on both sides with my propane torch. Melts the foundation wax in the groove enough to hold while the bees use it as a guide - soon after they have completely encompassed it with their own comb and everything attaches nicely. :thumbsup: 

This year however, I decided to go with wedge top bars, flipped sideways as a wooden guide.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

MoisesFromL.A said:


> What type of glue do you use?


Same as I use for everything else, a little titebond III.


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

MoisesFromL.A said:


> Do I need 1 popsicle stick in the middle or a couple across the top? :thumbsup:


I have the same question.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

I put them all the way across. Well, in truth, I use three because that's what fits, but from what I've heard, long topbars can result in the ends of the comb curving as if to encircle the brood nest. I don't have any top bar hives but I've seen it done.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

MoisesFromL.A said:


> Think I could use a syringe to substitue the fastener?


I used a childs medicine syringe and it worked pretty well. Sometimes the tube fills up and solidifies a bit but you just work in some hot wax and you're good. I did order the fastener this year but as I said the syringe works pretty well.

~Matt


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm going to use Popsicle sticks glued into the groove. I was thinking of using silicon window seal (the kind in a tube with a gun) Are there glues that I should not use due to toxicity or other reasons? Also, I find that some of my grooves are wider and/or deeper than others. How much effort should I put into keeping the sticks at right angles to the bar? What is the least amount the stick should protrude?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't know how well they can attach to silicone. My gut feeling is it is a bad idea...


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## topdog17 (Apr 6, 2009)

Here are the strips I used and it works very well. I use wedged top bar and just put the strip in and nail the wedge up against it. So far so good. :thumbsup:


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> I don't know how well they can attach to silicone. My gut feeling is it is a bad idea...


What kind of glue would you use?


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## lakebilly (Aug 3, 2009)

Do you think these frames are rigid enough to put in an extractor?


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## topdog17 (Apr 6, 2009)

Some say you can but they probably need to be reinforced with wire. I use the whole sheet of foundation in any supers I may want to extract. The strips and the wedges turn on their side only go into the 2 bottom deeps for the brood nest. I do not use a queen excluder so sometimes she will drop a few eggs in the 3rd box but they will usually fill it with honey and then some hopefully.


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## MoisesFromL.A (Jun 13, 2011)

buzz abbott said:


> What is the least amount the stick should protrude?


1/4" I think That's what I've read. 

Great pics topdog17:thumbsup:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What kind of glue would you use? 

If I'm doing wood strips I rip them on my table saw to fit the groove and I glue them in with exterior carpenter's glue (Both Elmer's and Titebond make similar products).


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## lakebilly (Aug 3, 2009)

Michael,

Do you coat the guide w/wax?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Do you coat the guide w/wax? 

I do not. I used to. Sometimes the wax I put on would come off. And they didn't follow any better or worse. Without the wax they attach the comb much better than you can attach the wax.

As to extracting, I extract them whenever the wax is mature enough to be strong enough and it's attached at least a little on all four sides. If it's soft and white, I use it for cut comb, as I always need some anyway.

All of this, including wiring, extracting, waxing etc. are covered here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm


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## Tillie (Apr 26, 2006)

I've always found that in the honey frames, the bees attach the comb firmly and completely on all four sides. When using foundationless frames, they often leave the bottom of the comb unattached in the brood box, but in honey frames that doesn't happen. I harvest with crush and strain, but with the comb attached on all four sides, the frames should go into the extractor as easily as any other honey frame.

Linda T in Atlanta


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

topdog in that first pic is that a drone layer hive? or do you notice they make more drone comb when left to there own design


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>they often leave the bottom of the comb unattached in the brood box

That's so when they dance the others can feel the vibrations.


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