# ways to melt cappings



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I was wondering if there was an alternative way to melt cappings rather than using a solar melter? I know there are plans on making solar melters but I am not the handiest person and I do lack the "put this together with this" concept.

I was wondering if there were any alternative ways to melt cappings and render out the wax

or a place that I can buy a wax melter.


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

I was not impressed with my solar melter. HHB suggests they do not recover wax that well. So I started with using a double boiler. Took a while to get it too melt. Used a little bit of water in the mix. Most of it got run through my honey filter (the double metal screen that fits over a bucket) to filter things out. It worked great for the first batch but things went a lot slower on the second, either from cooler air temp or too much residual wax and slumgum slowing things down. First wax looked good. Second batch was darker, might have been some of the wax I started with. SOme of the wax got left in the double boiler and with some scraping came out fairly clean also.

In order to be used for candles, it would need to be heated and filtered once more, but it cleaned up 5 years worth of fax pretty well.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Chef, You can go this route, 
http://go.netgrab.com/secure/kelleystore/asp/product.asp?product=156

Or you can buy a large plastic cat litter box at wal-mart, staple wire over the opening in the lid, invert the lid and lay your wax on the wire. Lay a piece of plain glass on top.
Crude, but effective wax melter.


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## Propolis30 (Aug 25, 2005)

I only have 6 hives so I don't have much wax to melt. I wash and save all the large glass pickle jars when we're done with them. Then I put 3 layers of window screen (fiberglass or metal) over the opening and tie it around the rim with a wire. I push it down into the jar about 3" first so it will hold a little wax. Then I fill the jar with about 1" of water and put as many wax cappings as I can into the top. I set it in the over and turn it to about 200 until it's melted. Then I put more wax in and repeat until I'm done. I just turn the oven off and leave it overnight. All the trash should drop to the bottom and be left in the water. In the morning I put the jar in a brown paper bag and give it a good wack on the concrete to break the jar. Then I remove the hocky puck of wax and throw the bag away. Very crude method but very cheap. Just using what I have around the house as most beekeepers do.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I do like the double boiler method as it does not require sunlight as the solar melter does and you can do it in the house.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Please don't put wax in the oven. It melts easily enough with other methods. Put the wax in a womans stocking and rinse in cold water. Put the whole stocking in a water bath. When it melts remove the stocking and the crap it contains. Wax cools on top of the water.

Heres a caution. If you heat wax in a pot and for some reason have to stop the wax hardens. If you then put that pot on the stove to heat it, guess what happens.? It explodes! Wax begins to liquify next to the heat but is capped in by what's above it. Pressure builds and you are redoing the cieling.

Dickm


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## MikeGillmore (Nov 15, 2005)

Dick,

Thanks for the tip.... sounds like someone learned this from experience. I would have never thought about that happening. 
You may have just saved my marriage!
Thank you.

Mike

Dick wrote: "Heres a caution. If you heat wax in a pot and for some reason have to stop the wax hardens. If you then put that pot on the stove to heat it, guess what happens.? It explodes! Wax begins to liquify next to the heat but is capped in by what's above it. Pressure builds and you are redoing the cieling."


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

> Put the wax in a womans stocking and rinse in cold water.





> You may have just saved my marriage!


Didn't do much for my marriage. 

dickm, you gotta realize that some of us are a little s-l-o-w, and literalists to boot. When giving us directions, you need to specify exactly where those stockings must be (and more importantly where they MUSTN'T be) before ya start stuffing 'em with wax. She's a pretty good sport, but she also packs a wicked left hook...


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I thought I heard a coyote howling tonight.
Now I understand why.


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## Jackbee (Aug 26, 2005)

Does anyone consider the current cost of energy when using gas, weather bottled or pipelined, as fuel, or, electric power to heat anything? In any case the fuel cost is passed on to the consumer. 

THE ENERGY IS NOT CHEAP ANYMORE!!!!

Making solar powered wax melters attractive. The point being that for melting wax, using purchased energy, the return may be so little versus the cost of energy that melting wax would be not worth while in small amounts.
I really dunno about melting bees wax per se, having not yet done it, but I do read, and, pay my utility bills, wondering how I could be charged so much for seemingly so little usage.

Talk about sticka shok!!!


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## Jerry Simmons (Nov 19, 2005)

Get one of those square pans you would make a cake in. Place screen wire over the top of it and place your wax over that. Then place an aquarium up-side down in direct sun. Works fairly well. I have noticed direct sun on wax melts it faster than wax inside a black metal pot with a lid on it.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I've been using a crock pot to melt wax in this fall. After melting I strain it through an old sweat shirt into a loaf pan. I do this outside, so my wax melting is over for the winter.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Coyote,
You made me laugh out loud. OK fellas . Remove the stocking carefully. Take to another room. Look back. Change your mind and say "to hell with wax today." 

I learned the stocking thing at a workshop attended mostly by women. I noted that I'd have to go incognito to purchase stockings as I was unmarried. Someone suggested that I ask some of the ladies to save their old stockings for me. I replied that many of the group were already looking at me in a funny way. I better pass.

Dickm


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

is using an electric crock pot the safest method? Would you add a little water to it and let it melt and seperate? And than pull the wax off?

Dick M: in your caution, is that why you use a double boiler and not a direct pot on the stove?


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Chef Issac,
>>>>> use a double boiler and not a direct pot on the stove? <<<<<

You betcha. I think wax melts in the 140s. If you heat it like it was a pot of beans it could catch fire easily. The double boiler could be a coffee can in a larger pot of water. I think it's better to dedicate 1 pot to wax than to try to get it clean. Not aluminum or iron. I'm actually looking for an old crock pot at flea markets.

Dickm


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## Irsqu911 (Nov 14, 2005)

I honestly have never worked with beeswax...yet. But all one really has to do is some basic chemistry to find out...First I looked up the MSDS sheet on beeswax.

Freezing/melting point =144-149 degrees f.

Flash point (the minimum tempature at which something gives off enough gasses to "flash" or catch fire) is 470 f.

Auto ingition temp 520 f.

Specific Gravity is .95

and insoluable in water.

Water boils at 212 f. and holds this temp unless under pressure

So...
a double boiler will work fine and if used correctly it would be impossable for the wax to catch fire. 

Or...
you could put the wax in a pot add water and raise the temp until all the wax has melted. It should rise to the top and when the whole batch has cooled it should form a solid on the top of the water. If the MSDS is correct, and it should be as is regulated by federal government (huh, is that saying much?).


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

One can learn a lot by reading. I wouldn't believe all of it though. The conclusion that wax is safe below 400% is erroneous, I think. It doesn't need to flash to burn. Liquid wax will ignite easily. It's good in candles. I haven't worked with it all that much but I know it has danger.

Dickm


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Just be careful. Flashpoints are one thing; open flames, electric range elements, spills, popping water, etc are another. 

"Beekeeper Burns Own House Down" is a lousy headline, and you risk having a picture of yourself watching it published in yer local newsrag. Probably wouldn't hurt to have fire extinguisher handy whenever you work with hot wax in the house. (I'm not paranoid, oil and natural gas well fires give ya a distinct respect for spewing flammables)


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## Irsqu911 (Nov 14, 2005)

First, Liquids dont burn, only gasses burn. Liquid gasoline does not burn unless it is above its flash point... which is something like -50f. or something like that. So it will burn readily at ambient (normal indoor/outdoor) temperatures. If its below that temp you can toss a match on it and it will go out (very much like diesel at ambient tempters. Diesel does not give off enough vapors to ignite (its flash point) until its in the range of 145f (+ or - 15f as I am going by memory). That is one reason a diesel engine must have its plugs warm before it will start. 

Think of wax as diesel with a different temperature range. its a solid until 144-149f and does not give off vapors. From 149 to 489f it gives off progressively more vapors, however not enough to sustain combustion until 490f at which point when exposed to a ignition source it will flash and free burn (self-sustained combustion). If not exposed to a ignition source and the temperature continues to rise to 520f the product will spontaneously combust into flames and continue to free burn.

Since beeswax is a flammable substance with three states of matter (solid, liquid, gas) like gasoline, diesel, hydrogen, fryer oil at McDonalds, it could, in theory, be used in an internal combustion engine. IF the temperature settings where set correctly. Now I digress

SO, back to the double boiler. Using water H2O as the boiling liquid. It reaches its boiling point at 212f and there until all the liquid is consumed into vapors (Steam) the Vapors are 212f and not a single degree higher. Beeswax gives off enough vapors to sustain combustion at 490f, anything under this is NOT enough to ignite, flash, puff or even fart. You could probably toss a match in the melted wax with the water boiling under it and it will go out. Havent tried it but I believe the proven science behind it. 

Did I say it was safe? Nope, of course its dangerousits hot, you could get burned. The product has an MSDS so the government has decided it was dangerous enough to classify. But, you can melt beeswax in a double boiler EVEN OVER AN OPEN FLAME gas stove with no threat of combustion. 

To answer the Candle bit. 

A candle is wax in a totally different environment it is a stick or log of beeswax with a readily flammable solid stuck in itthe wick. The Wick is made of ?? Cotton probably and has a very low ignition point and ignites readily when exposed to a flame source a match. 
The burning wick heats the wax above 149f and it melts, now it is a small pool of liquid under the flame provided by the wick. It climbs in temperature from 149f to 489f as it is drawn up the hot wick and into the flame where it reaches 469f and ignites propitiating the flame.sustained combustion. This process can be called a simple form of PYROLISIS. All substances that are combustible must go thru the stages of pyrolisis to burn
Take a match, light it and stick it head first into the pool of wax under the wick/flame. It goes out. Why? The liquid wax is not giving off enough vapors to sustain combustion. Simple. 
Add water to the wick. It goes out, why? It didnt smother it, it didnt remove the fuel, it didnt stop the chemical process that causes fireit dropped the temperature to about 212 or lower (depending on the amount of water) which is below the point where beeswax cannot sustain combustion and the flame went out. 
Again, yes you can melt beeswax with a double boiler using water as a buffer product even over a open flame with firm knowledge it will not burst into flames and singe your eyebrows. I suggest you wear oven mitts because yes its hot and can burn you. (your flesh begins to go thru the phases of pyrolisis)

Recap
I wouldn't believe all of it though. The conclusion that wax is safe below 400% is erroneous, I think.
--um, I never said that

It doesn't need to flash to burn.
--It needs to reach its flashpoint to burn, so umyes. 

Liquid wax will ignite easily

--As long as its >489f, sure I agree with that. 

It's good in candles

--Its great in candles.

I haven't worked with it all that much but I know it has danger

--I havent worked with it at all. But I guarantee everything I said above is true.

[ December 02, 2005, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Irsqu911 ]


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

> ....--I havent worked with it at all. But I guarantee everything I said above is true.


Well there ya have it. A great post with the information and science behind it. That's what makes this board the best. Thanks.


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## Irsqu911 (Nov 14, 2005)

I just reread my post and it sounds a little strong. I dont want it to sound rude or overly agressive. sorry if it does. 
just wanted to toss out the facts as knowledge is victory


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Heres some interesting (and probably useless) information from the Cogshall and Morse book Beeswax. In the books preface its authors give some precautions:

Everyone should be aware that there are dangers which should be understood and avoided..... An open flame should never be used.....Bees wax itself contains some water, and when this water reaches the boiling point the wax foams suddenly...., etc.

Then they write this little piece if trivia:

Still, a gas flame directed against the vertical side of a block of beeswax will not ignite the wax, provided the melted wax can flow down the block and away from the flame. Why is tis true? Because, although beeswax is combustible, it must become very hot to burn. Beeswax has a flash point range of 490 to 524ºF (254 to 274ºC), and at this temperature it will flare up (flash) and burn fiercely.


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## Irsqu911 (Nov 14, 2005)

Water in the wax is interesting. I bet its simmular to cooking bacon, it pops and sizzles because the grease (oils) heat up past 212 and the water quickly vaporizes. 

I still think a novel idea is to just drop it the wax into a pot of water, heat til its melted and then let cool. As the specific gravity is less then 1 it should form a block on top of the water that can be lifted out. Just like my greasy stew I put in the fridge overnight. I will try it next year and let you know

Heres a question for you hive experts. When you talk about the wax melting in hot weather, do you mean it melts and drips. Or, it deforms and the comb fails under its own weight? Dripping would mean an internal hive temp of about 145f!!


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

IRSQU911,
I think this is a case of where you are right and I am wrong. Thank you for the guidance.

However.

There are people of all skills here and I still say Be careful with wax. I'm going to be less scared of it than I was. BTW how hot would it get in a pan on an open flame? Where does it boil?

Dickm


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## Irsqu911 (Nov 14, 2005)

I am guessing it could get quite hot. mass vs btu inpingment..blah blah. 
beeswax has a Sp Gravity of .95 (less than water) so it should, in theory (i dunno this for sure) heat and cool faster then water by about 5% so it might heat faster and hotter then you expect.
If you where to heat it over direct heat (flame or electric) It would be dangerous. If the wax was boiling that would put it well past 490f and about as dangerous as dropping a turkey into a very hot turkey fryer!! You could try to use a cooking thermometer and regulate the temp by heat control. The end product would be a thinner, hotter wax that would probably pour easyer. But safety dictates using another control besides a thermometer. IE the water, which gives a guaranteed ceiling temp of 212f. 
As for vaporized (boiled wax), I belive it would act and look simmular to steam and condense on something cool and rapidly turn back into a solid. 
If you have been around boiling oil, you kinda get that ominous feeling. I think the beeswax would be....ominouser! ? 
But, I know nothing of bees...yet


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I still think a novel idea is to just drop it the wax into a pot of water, heat til its melted and then let cool.

Thats the normal method.

I melt the cappings FIRST (in a double boiler) and steal the honey off the bottom and then put water in to get it cleaner and melt it again and filter it through some cheescloth (water and all) into a container to make a block.

>As the specific gravity is less then 1 it should form a block on top of the water that can be lifted out.

Lifted? Kind of. Its often attached to the sides somewhere but usually pulls loose from contraction somewhere also.

>Heres a question for you hive experts. When you talk about the wax melting in hot weather, do you mean it melts and drips. Or, it deforms and the comb fails under its own weight?

Usually it deforms and the comb fails under it's weight. I haven't seen wax running out of a hive but I don't live in the far South or the Desert. But I HAVE seen combs that I layed on top of a hive in the summer melt right off of the comb.

>Dripping would mean an internal hive temp of about 145f!! 

The sun gets pretty hot in some climates. My attic is often well above that here in the North.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

That's basically how I process my cappings. After they drain as best they can, I fill a large stock pot with the cappings and pour water over it all. Then I put it on the wood burner until it all melts. After it cools the wax forms a block floating on top of the water, though it's pretty dirty at this point. Then I take several of these blocks and melt them down in a double boiler arrangement (the stock pot inside a boiling canner) and pour it though strainer cloth.

-Tim


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## Irsqu911 (Nov 14, 2005)

You guys could have said that 10 posts ago and saved me a lot of typing...lol

Getting off the subject a little, is letting the comb drain as best it can almost as good as using an extractor, if one wants to save the comb. Mash and strain seems the other best option.

Second, do you recycle the honey water from the washed caps? Have heard both ways about feeding honey back to the bees.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Getting off the subject a little, is letting the comb drain as best it can almost as good as using an extractor, if one wants to save the comb.

I tried it years ago and never had any luck getting the honey out. The surface tension of the honey combined with the vacuum effect and the viscocity keep it in there pretty well. Maybe some honeys are thinner than the kind I was trying it on, but I never had any luck uncapping and draining comb.

>Mash and strain seems the other best option.

That works very well. I did it for 26 years.

>Second, do you recycle the honey water from the washed caps?

I melt the caps without water first and after it solidifies, pull the wax off the top and use that honey for cooking or baking or candy or bee feed.

After that there isn't enough honey in the second processing to mess with trying to feed it, although if you put it out the bees seem to like it for a water supply.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I figure the honey water is too cooked and not really suitable for bee use, at least right before the winter. It tends to be very dark and have a bit of a burnt smell to it. It does however make excellent bait for yellow jacket traps. I really don't think I loose too much honey in it though, I let the uncapping tank drain in a warm room for several days after I'm done extracting.

-Tim


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I use an old crock pot with 2 cups of water in it and I put the cappings in it to melt no poping and no overheating. When all melted I turn it off and let cool then when cooled I take out the wax cake and dump out the water. I add 2 more cups of water and the wax cake and melt again. When liquid I strain all into a wax mold water and all and let cool. Now I have reasonably clean wax to use as I need. With only 10 hives this works good for me. Just do not try and use the crock pot for cooking food again.
Clint


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

I use the "clintonbemrose-crock-pot" method too.
Except, on the 2nd melt-down, I put the cake in a stainlees steel pet food dish (cat or dog dish will work







), melt and pour through "window wire" screen to filter. Finished cake is almost "pure".


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