# questions about swarms and swarm traps.......



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

At least one study I have read concluded that 40 liters was an optimum size for a swarm trap. That is approximately a 10 frame deep.

I have some TBH swarm traps. Last year I placed 5 around the property and caught 1 swarm. They didn't seem to have any problem with my bars and have turned into a fine hive.

I have all my traps out now. Here, dandelions, henbit and deadnettle are currently blooming, although its still somewhat cold. 

Last year 4 of my traps were on legs, about 30" off the ground. None of those caught anything. The successful trap was sitting on a pair of homemade L-brackets ratchet strapped to a tree, about 7 ft off the ground. This year I now have 7 traps mounted to tree trunks, and 2 still on legs.

The newer traps are Lang medium bodies with a temporary 3" extension screwed on to make the trap about 40 liters. My Lang equipment is all mediums.

Here is some bedtime reading for you: 
http://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

There are a ton of post on this forum about this, but here it goes.

Some people say that you should use a box the size of 10 frame deep, as it is close to 40 liters. About 40 years a go Tom Seeley (sp?) did a study and he found that on some island in NY that bees preferred 40 liters over 10 liters and 100 liter boxes. So if you are choosing between 10, 40 and 100 liters, go with 40. A bunch of folks use 5 frame nucs. Probably the best philosophy is to use a box that you could also use as a in your apiary. I think it is Odfrank that says small traps get small swarms, large traps get large swarms.

If you want to go with mediums, you could make a larger hive and stick in medium frames. This would give you volume without having to make a two deep nuc. As long as you check often you won't get into too much trouble. Let it go too long and you will need to do a cutout. 

I would start hanging them soon. Swarm season varies based on location. You probably have a month before prime swarms, but if you are like me it is better to have them hung early instead of way late. Idea location would be in places you would expect bees! If you know of feral hives in an area it would be good to be with a half mile of that. Otherwise pick places along the edge of woods, along fence lines, near water sources, etc. 

I'm hanging 16 top bar bait hives this spring. I'm not sure of the best size so I have some that are one foot long, and the other half are 16 inches long. I'm hedging my bets though and I'm putting out 5 lang nucs and maybe to 10 frame deep boxes. If I get any swarms at all I will post them on the forum.


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

thanks soo much guys !!!!!! ill vary the sizes between what i have now and medium boxes. maybe a deep if i have enough of this cutout wood left.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

There was another thread that discussed putting two 5 frame nuc boxes together. Same Cubic space, just tall. (like a tree trunk?) The thought was it appealed to swarms more. Can't say myself. I happen to have several extra nucs and plan on doing this. 
http://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf Link to the seely paper on swarm traps. Good info.
Rick


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I would love to see Seeleys work done again today. That was done well before the whole mite and CCD conditions of today. Any grad students need a study?


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Probably a good thing he did it before. I can only imagine trying to do that study today.


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## stevedc (Feb 24, 2012)

http://breeze.cce.cornell.edu/p92tkzw3pu8/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal Tom Seeley Seminar.


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

Yep - the sooner you get your traps out now, the better. Our "swarm season" starts about the 1st week in April here in the Salt Lake City area, but I just posted some video of a bunch of scouts already checking out one of my bait hives just yesterday...the scouts are already looking, so I want to give them every chance that I can to get them to move on in before they find something else to move into first!


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

mtndewluvr said:


> , so I want to give them every chance that I can to get them to move on in before they find something else to move into first!


 My thoughts as well 
Rick


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## Origonhives (Jun 13, 2012)

Will a swarm trap encourage a nearby hive to swarm? I have three hives and plan to put out a trap for a fourth. How far away should I put the trap from working hives?encourage a nearby hive to swarm? I have three hives and plan to put out a trap for a fourth. How far away should I put the trap from working hives?


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

The trap will not encourage a hive to swarm.(I've never heard of it anyway) There are conditions/circumstances that come together to generate a hive to swarm. Numerous threads on that subject. A search will link you to them. Different bee keepers have different experiences and therefore answers. I'll share mine. I have set swarm boxes up, at least four, with in 50 to 100 yards of my hives. Single deeps with old comb and lemon grass oil. Bees would go in and out, check them out. I thought for sure, one would move in. I had them land too high up in a tree for me to reach, then took off. I have never caught one of my own swarms. My advise/suggestion,,,from my experience, is to set your traps several hundred yards away, maybe more than one, and different distances. Cover different bases so to speak. There is a link here I think, to the paper by tom Seely on swarm boxes. Best size, location, etc. After that, it is cross your fingers Bees will do what bees do. 
Best
Rick


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Last year the swarms came early, but it looks like they will be later this year. Last year, warmer than normal, this year colder than normal. Good thing, I only have a third of my traps out so far.


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

im soooooo behind. im also behind in the amount of boxes we need to build. UGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH !

starting of my first SERIOUS beekeeping year bad


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