# Bee Vacuum Please



## Huntingstoneboy (Feb 10, 2013)

I would add more holes...reducing pressure....you want to barely pull the bees off the comb. I use a similar set-up with a hose that has ridges. I have very few dead bees when I vacuum. In fact if or when i see the queen I intentionally suck her up so I know where she is.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have tried several over the years and now use nothing but a Robo/Bushkill style. I only use a bucket vac now for tiny swarms or bee messes. I have both a ten frame and eight frame Bushkill. For the price they charge you can not build one as nice yourself for the cost, unless you consider your time worthless. I can sell my time for $60 and $75 an hour. If I tried making the vac myself, it would cost me $1000 in lost time. 
It treats the bees gently as long as you use low flow, and places the bees right into their future home. Combining the vac'ed bees with their cutout brood is seamless. The recommended Ridgid vac is also multi use. I use the blower many more hours for clearing supers than sucking up cutouts and use the vac for cleaning up my shop.


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## SDiver40 (Apr 14, 2013)

I made one out of a single deep and a small super. Mostly scrap lumber I had laying around. I use my shop vac for suction. Works like a charm.


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## wcnewby (Sep 28, 2014)

I have thought about making one of these... when I thought I was going to find a feral hive. That never happened, but I still put some thought into it. Smooth bore hose, like they use for pool pumps seemed a good answer. You could make the very end flexible. I also thought of setting up a frame, covered in panty hose, that they would hit when they went into the container. I'm guessing it is the hard stop more than the tumbling that kills them. You could set up a window on the top of your container that has a sliding cover so you can regulate how hard it sucks through the hose. So, it would be a super type box. You make a cover out of plexi-glass for it so that you can hook a vacuum up to it. The hole is screened so the bees don't go into the vacuum. You have a window with the sliding panel, and on the end of the box you attach your pool hose suction line. The first frame would be a panty hose net for them to bounce off of. When you turn the vac on, if the super is sealed, there would then be a low pressure in the super which would be relieved through the smooth bore pool hose. You could see how hard the bees are getting sucked in by looking through the top...


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

So simple to make. The top (on right) has a suction reducing gate on the rear. Just hook a vac hose to the top hole and vac. The frames can be removed or left in to allow more ventillation depending on exterior temps.
Most beekeepers make a mistake of having too long of a lead hose from the cutout to the box. This will surely do the bees in. Mine is only 10' long. My vac hose however is 20' long which means I can have all the noise from the vac away from us rather than right under our feet. Soooo much more enjoyable.
This system also allows you to place the cutout frames on top, pull the shim slightly and allow the bees to move up. The next day remove the vac and place the hive on a bottom board.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

I have one constructed with 5 gallon pails as well. I had terrible issues the first time used, likely 1/3 bee dead. Second time had about 1/5 of bees dead. Made adjustments each time and last 3 uses I might have had maybe 20 bees dead. The issues I had at first is I wanted it to suck up bees really well and had way to much suction. Also didn't realize how much heat they could generate. 

I now can barely suck up the bees into the bucket. With the suction on now, quite a few bees hold on to the comb as I pass over, that little suction is present. I also have a piece of cloth in the bucket to cushion where they exit the hose. Instead of hitting the side of the bucket they hit cloth. 

I have several round vent holes with screen on them that allows the bees to suck some air through the bucket. These screened in vents are covered with painter's tape during use and when bucket is full I mist the bees on the screen really well. This adds some cooling to the bucket.

The biggest advantages of buckets over wooden vacuum systems is the cost (my buckets are free), ease of handling, and the speed which I can build a new one. I can easily have several containers on site and if I ever hit that massive cut out I am ready (I passed on a cut out that had 4 hives this summer, 2 which filled a double deep). I can carry two buckets by handle in one hand without an issues. Lastly I can make a temporary one is about 5 minutes. Permanent one in 15 minutes due to using silicon to hold the screen in place on it has to sit overnight to cure. 

The biggest disadvantage is:.... Gettting the bees into the hive box. I have seen several of those bee vac setups and it would be wonderful to get home and not have to deal with dumping 2 or 3 buckets of bees into a hive. Bees everywhere, mad, worrying about the queen missing the hive during the dumping... Usually is dark thirty when I have finished. Just this extra step alone make me want to construct a wooden design vacuum. Until then, I have the blue vacuum bee buckets on stand by. 

But the bee vacuum - set the box on the super with combs and just remove in the morning. .... Makes me want to build one, but that is down the road a bit.

Good Luck


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Note that there are Bee Vac plans and photos in the _Build-It-Yourself_ area:

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/bee-vac/


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## tonysea (Jan 22, 2014)

A few months ago i had a colony at work that needed removed,with advice from folks here i ended up trying a trapout,it went nowhere,patience is not my strong point. I built a bucket vac with a power head from home depot,i cut a 2 inch hole in the bucket and screened on the inside. i could control the pressure by duct taping the hole from the outside, with barely any vacuum i captured just about everyone and cut out all the comb by hand,i did put some newspaper inside the bucket when removing so the bees wouldnt take a hit entering and wouldn't rattle around inside...needless to say they are doing great,i couldn't be happier with the way it performed


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

I built one after watching this video, first time I used it I didn't have any dead bees at all. I scavenged an old shop vac from the dump and have mounted the motor directly on top so I don't have to lug a vaccum around. I think one of the reasons for low bee mortality is because the bottom landing board is slanted so when the bees hit it they don't stop suddenly. Also there is no need to dump the bees after because they are already in a hive body.
Colino
http://youtu.be/922gkjV3iqA


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>what to stay away from?

Yes. Stay away from Bee vacs...  that's what I would do.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

I purchased some 2 inch clear suction hose/air seeder hose. It is smooth inside and it is easy to see how fast the bees are travelling because it is clear. You can see how fast the bees are being sucked and slow air flow down accordingly by opening regulator.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Michael Bush said:


> >what to stay away from? Yes. Stay away from Bee vacs...  that's what I would do.


I think it is a shame when one of the most respected bee gurus of our era speaks out against a method or piece of equipment merely because he has failed to master it's use, thereby misguiding those less experienced beekeepers who hang on his every word. 

Nine of the hives in this row were started late in this year's swarm season by vacuuming swarms right onto combs and into a box. Note that several of these hives have two colonies using division screens. These are only about 1/3 of what I vacuumed this season, the rest are at other sites. I have watched recent videos on Beesource of cutouts that would have been completed in a fraction of the time, immediately controlling all bees, without the use of chemicals and avoiding a night time pickup call, with the judicious use of a vac. 

Remember, 900+ followers of Jim Jones drank the CoolAid, don't hang of every word of every Guru.


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## Leather Jim (Jun 30, 2013)

I


odfrank said:


> I have tried several over the years and now use nothing but a Robo/Bushkill style. I only use a bucket vac now for tiny swarms or bee messes. I have both a ten frame and eight frame Bushkill. For the price they charge you can not build one as nice yourself for the cost, unless you consider your time worthless. I can sell my time for $60 and $75 an hour. If I tried making the vac myself, it would cost me $1000 in lost time.
> It treats the bees gently as long as you use low flow, and places the bees right into their future home. Combining the vac'ed bees with their cutout brood is seamless. The recommended Ridgid vac is also multi use. I use the blower many more hours for clearing supers than sucking up cutouts and use the vac for cleaning up my shop.


👍👍👍
This system works great.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I think it is a shame when one of the most respected bee gurus of our era speaks out against a method or piece of equipment merely because he has failed to master it's use, thereby misguiding those less experienced beekeepers who hang on his every word. 

I guess I don't see the point of the vacuum. I have had and have made and have used many over the years. Sometimes it worked well. Sometimes it killed a lot of bees. There seem to be many variables, not the least of which is the weather. They overheat very quickly. Perhaps you are right. I have never mastered it. It always seemed like a way to avoid simply working with the bees and resulted in dead bees in the process. I'm glad it works better for you. I find just doing my cutout and waiting for dark has a lot less variables and a lot more reliable outcome and a lot less dead bees. The vacuum just seems like a brute force method with not so reliable of a result.

Yes, I've made dampers, played with various hoses and various things to catch the bees in. Perhaps there is some magic combination that I haven't seen.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Have you ever used the Bushkill vac?


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

I went along on a removal last week in Boca Raton with Sierra and Al from the Palm Beach County Beekeepers Assoc. They used the system that Al makes using wooden hive boxes and a Rigid vacuum. There is a suction regulator and a ridged hose. There is a video for making that set up on the Palm Beach County Beekeepers website.

The hive was huge, open air, hanging in a tree. It took about an hour to gently vacuum the combs and I was really surprised to see how few dead there were when we hived the bees. Maybe ten? Even the queen went through the hose (Al sucked her up not Sierra lol) and lived to tell. Al told me he tests the suction against his cheek and knows how it should feel and adjusts accordingly.

The whole experience was very gentle, clean and easy. The equipment worked beautifully. I thought it was a little loud but then realized that the pool was being vacuumed behind the house at the same time. The homeowners came to watch and took a huge piece of honeycomb into the house.

I took some really nice video and photos with my phone but haven't figured out how to get them posted here. I can send them in a text or email them.


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## BeeGora (Oct 22, 2013)

odfrank said:


> I think it is a shame when one of the most respected bee gurus of our era speaks out against a method or piece of equipment merely because he has failed to master it's use, thereby misguiding those less experienced beekeepers who hang on his every word.


Why is that a shame? Isn't he entitled to voice his opinion?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Recently there was a quote by Sqkcrk on another thread that I found extremely useful, concerning advise for anyone working with the many aspects of beekeeping.

To quote Sqkcrk, quote, "Nothing someone else ever said, kept me from doing something I want to do. It shouldn't you either." unquote. Everyone has an opinion, everyone has a method. It may work, It may not. But, it is your decision. 

To bee or not to bee. It is up to you. 

cchoganjr


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Have you ever used the Bushkill vac?

No. When I was a newbee and scared of a lot of bees in the air, a vacuum seemed like a good idea. Now I can't say I care much about the bees in the air, but I do care about the dead ones in the vacuum... so after decades of experiments I just quite using the vacuums. I have two right now. Both are adjustable and I have always adjusted them to the minimum suction that will still work.  It's not that they never work well. Sometimes they do. It's just a disaster when they don't and I don't see any reason to risk it.

I can't say the name "Bushkill" sounds too appealing to me... people are always beating around the bush or, worse, beating the bushes but that's a bit much...


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I think in someways a Bushkill type vac is more gentle than knocking a swarm down into a nuc box. The "magic" is in controlling the air suction velocity. I've gotten so use to mine that I keep my suction door locked in the same position unless I add more hose. 

I honestly don't know how anyone does cutouts without a vac. I'm spoiled using mine and would never do one without it.

It's nice to have the colony immediately go into the hive box they will start out in. I've carpeted the bottom board landing area on my vac for extra cushion.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Maybe I am yellow, but with the temperament of some of the bees I have seen, not sure I want 5 to 10 K swarming around me while I attempt a cutout without a vacuum. Two first tries were around very defensive bees that stayed aggressive after being disturbed. 

That was enough so built a vac cause 3 strikes and you are out. 

Would be fun now I am not that nervous around them to do it with someone who knows what to do with mad bees and no vacuum. Sometimes just little tricks make it easy, but learning those tricks are tough.


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## Huntingstoneboy (Feb 10, 2013)

Done 40+ cutouts to date.....wouldn't consider doing the job without my vaccum!


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## allniter (Aug 22, 2011)

CHARLIE B ---I use EGG shell rubber bed pads that the hospital use -real soft -in side my VAC works real well --like U say the SUCTION is the real trick ---and of course when it is extra hot U got to watch the temp on the BEES


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>I can't say the name "Bushkill" sounds too appealing to me... people are always beating around the bush or, worse, beating the bushes but that's a bit much...

So it is a psychiatric problem, the name of the vac stirs a deep seated fear. I can understand that. I don't like the name either, bees in a bush...kill. I can see that if it was called an Oliver North Vac, or Frankenstein vac, I might have doubts about it also. 

They are also called Robo vacs. Make one, call it that and give it a chance. It will change your opinion on bee vacs. 

As to carpeting the inside of a Robo vac, I don't think that is a good idea. Better yet make it smoother. The bees land on a smooth sloped ramp and slide up onto the combs. A carpet won't help that.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Michael Bush said:


> Both are adjustable and I have always adjusted them to the minimum suction that will still work. It's not that they never work well. Sometimes they do. It's just a disaster when they don't and I don't see any reason to risk it.


That's too bad. I wouldn't waste time with those either if I didn't get consistent positive results. I can be gentle, or very aggressive when the situation demands it, and not have any significant amount of dead bees in the vac hive.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Why would anyone object to telling a newbee the pros and cons of using or not using a bee vac. I have always believed more information is better than just giving one method or procedure.

Lost in this discussion would be the additional equipment a newbee would need for a successful vac operation. For instance, electric source, long extension cord, DC/AC inverter for the bee truck, or, perhaps a generator. I rarely do cutouts any more, (Just don't have the time), but the three I did this year, I took the bee vac, the DC/AC invertor, and the generator, but, found I could cut the combs with the bees on it faster than getting the equipment set up, so they were not used. There are advantages to leaving the nurse bees on the brood comb. And, better chance of not injuring the queen.

I like to hear all sides of a discussion. One size does not fit all. 

Just my 2cts worth, and that may be overpriced.

cchoganjr


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> I like to hear all sides of a discussion. One size does not fit all.
> 
> Just my 2cts worth, and that may be overpriced.
> 
> cchoganjr


Without the "hear " part it is just an argument, AKA politics.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> As to carpeting the inside of a Robo vac, I don't think that is a good idea. Better yet make it smoother. The bees land on a smooth sloped ramp and slide up onto the combs. A carpet won't help that.


The carpet is at the very back wall of my bottom board where my angled ramp ends you dufus.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

This is going to be a loooooong winter. lol


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Mr Beeman.... If we could only incorporate foundation/foundationless: treatment/no treatment; intervention/non intervention into this thread, it could hold us until April 2015.

Saltybee... I totally agree. Too often it is trying to hard sell a point of view, rather than presenting differing opinions and procedures.

cchoganjr


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Cleo,

You're going to have to do your part to keep us entertained until Spring. Ollie and I are doing our best to stir it up but you need to help. Stop being so open minded and understanding.


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## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

Here's another consideration when building or buying a bee vac. It's a tool. Tools come in different sizes and styles, and will work good or bad depending on the situation. Having a vac that sucks the bees straight into hive boxes might be handly for an easily reachable swarm. But wait until your swarm is 40' feet up in a Ponderosa Pine and six feet out on a branch. For this I use a very small shop vac running through a five gallon bucket. Anything larger or heavier just wouldn't work that far up in a tree.


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## Cub (Feb 14, 2013)

I have ~28 cutouts under my belt now, and the vac is a great tool in most situations. Several of the ones I did this year were fairly easy and no vac was needed, or would have really even helped. Some of the more difficult ones that are not readily accessible make a great case for the bee vac. 

The vac that I have found most favorable is the bucket style. Rather than two buckets, I like the screen cage inside. Keeping the suction light is the key to a low kill number. The one I use is shown in the attached photos. The Robo/Bushkill style would be handy for not having to dump bees after the removal, but this setup has worked perfectly for me, and is probably a fourth of the weight.

J


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Cub.. I have never used the bucket style, mine is the type that has baskets inside and they are rather small. A big colony will use 3 to 5 baskets. The obvious disadvantage to mine is that the cages have to be dumped into a hive. If I were going to do lots of cut outs I would go to the vacs that put them in hive as you go, or the 5 gallon bucket concept you use.

Now, the reason for my response. If you do not plan to use your vac for a few days, would it be a good idea to cut a hole in a bottom board just slightly smaller than the 5 gallon bucket, slide a thin piece of metal or plywood over the bucket as you remove the top, and then sit the hive on the vac bucket and let the bees move up into the hive rather than dumping them into a hive. Maybe remove your screen cage and just place in a dark place and sit the hive on top of the screen cage and let them move up.

Charlie... There are still a lot of serious thoughts about bee vacs yet to be discussed. There will be time for folly later on. It will be a long Winter. (HA!!!)

cchoganjr


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

BlackForestBees said:


> Having a vac that sucks the bees straight into hive boxes might be handly for an easily reachable swarm. But wait until your swarm is 40' feet up in a Ponderosa Pine and six feet out on a branch. For this I use a very small shop vac running through a five gallon bucket. Anything larger or heavier just wouldn't work that far up in a tree.
> View attachment 14104
> View attachment 14105


You know you can buy smooth bore swimming pool hose at any length as long as you have a Beevac motor like mine that's up the the challenge. I have a 30ft hose now but you could easily get a 40 footer if you wanted. That way your only holding a hose 40 ft up and not a bucket vac.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

That swarm (40' up) was a loooong way up. I may have let them go. I won't even ask how you managed to capture them.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

BlackForestBees said:


> For this I use a very small shop vac running through a five gallon bucket.


For that, I'd be walking away from the job. Some swarms are just meant to be free.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Charlie B said:


> That way your only holding a hose 40 ft up and not a bucket vac.


You bet! Why hold a vac and hose when you only need to hold a hose?


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## flhultra (Jun 14, 2013)

Bushkill Bee Vac.
throw away their cut out shim the holes are to big, to many heads get stuck.
replace with (heavy screen wire) plenty of air flow and no stuck heads.
hundreds killed first time less than a dozen each use after screen in place.
also use a small super below the hive body(wire not wax in frames so they can hang and climb) makes more volume for large cutouts.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I always use two mediums.


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## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

Mr.Beeman said:


> That swarm (40' up) was a loooong way up. I may have let them go. I won't even ask how you managed to capture them.


Wasn't hard. Climbed up with bee vac, sucked them into two buckets, and brought them down and rehived them. Colony is doing great.

It wasn't that I wanted them, I just didn't want them! You see, the tree is about 50 yards from the house. We were doing construction on my house and there were a lot of wonderful open spots into the attic and other perfect places for them to move to. Getting them out of the tree seemed easier than cutting them back out of my house!

I should mention that I have a lot of experience rock climbing so no fear of heights and I was in a climbing harness and tied off, so no risk of falling either.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

RoboVac (aka bushkill Vac) gets my vote. 

Relatively cheap to buy (or make one on your own), compatible with standard langstroth equipment, adjustable suction, flexibility in size, easy transport without overheating. Your new bees are easy to set into a permanent spot with minimum of shuffling of boxes. A lot of thought went into its design. 

The only thing I'd change is to add one of those plastic, rectangular, hose connectors JP the beeman is using now in that new (high priced) beeVac from Colorado.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>plastic, rectangular, hose connectors JP the beeman is using now

Please expound on this.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

odfrank, you can see the black plastic adaptor for the hose built into the box in this ebay ad. HTH


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## knute (Mar 10, 2013)

odfrank said:


> >plastic, rectangular, hose connectors JP the beeman is using now
> 
> Please expound on this.


Got me curious too, so clickety, clickety, google and here's a link to a picture of the rectangular connector on a Colorado Bee Rescue vac (the one JP the Bee Man helped design). 

http://coloradobeerescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/IMG_1732.jpg

I'm not sure what advantage this connector offers over the simple round hose port on the Bushkill vac?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

There is none, just looks cooler. It's an outty instead on an inny!


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

It looks like there is a sliding door to lock the bees in. That is an advantage for me. It may also allow use of two different sized hoses. I have one big and long hose and several smaller hoses for easy situations. But thats just me.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

My Robo vac has a sliding door as well. Here it is on the top.

http://www.beesource.com/imgs/barry/bvac4.jpg

I have the same thing on the bottom where the "line in" hose goes.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Still, My vote goes to the robovac.


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## Cub (Feb 14, 2013)

>>>Now, the reason for my response. If you do not plan to use your vac for a few days, would it be a good idea to cut a hole in a bottom board just slightly smaller than the 5 gallon bucket, slide a thin piece of metal or plywood over the bucket as you remove the top, and then sit the hive on the vac bucket and let the bees move up into the hive rather than dumping them into a hive. Maybe remove your screen cage and just place in a dark place and sit the hive on top of the screen cage and let them move up.


Cleo,
I have done something similar many times. If the queen is caged, I place her in the hive box and place the bee vac in front, leaned up to the entrance. They have marched right in every time so far, at least by the next morning. 

Also, I see that Barry has a hive body setup with a long hose that works perfectly. At the time I built this most recent version, hose length was a concern of mine, and lifting the vac up to where the bees were was my reason for going as lightweight as possible.

J


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Here's a pic of my home made Bushkill. The little door on top is the "magic".


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Charlie B's homemade Bushkill with "little door on top"


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## rsderrick (May 7, 2006)

knute said:


> Got me curious too, so clickety, clickety, google and here's a link to a picture of the rectangular connector on a Colorado Bee Rescue vac (the one JP the Bee Man helped design).
> 
> http://coloradobeerescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/IMG_1732.jpg
> 
> I'm not sure what advantage this connector offers over the simple round hose port on the Bushkill vac?


I like this beevac as well. I love the simplicity! I'm going to order one for next year for sure.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> Here's a pic of my home made Bushkill. The little door on top is the "magic".


How can we trust the advice of a man who can't even post a picture right side up?

Thanks, dynemd, for babysitting the little fella. I try to keep an eye on him here near Frisco, but he tends to get away from me.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Thanks dynemd!


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