# Chinese black bees for TF beekeeping in Cold climates (Varroa & Tropilaelaps mites)



## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

I learned about the Chinese black bees from this post from GregB on the forum some time ago:


GregB said:


> While searching for the Chinese-side information relevant to the "Russian" bees, I found various papers of interest. Certainly some of the Chinese bees are originating in Russia, like the "Chinese black bees".
> 
> It is a worthwhile topic to study.
> Here are a couple links:
> ...


The Chinese black bees are said to be resistant to Varroa mites:

_"Further, a population of pure breeding black honeybees, A. m. mellifera, displayed a high degree of resistance to Varroa. No Varroa mites or Deformed wing virus could be detected in any examined bee colonies. This finding suggests that a population of pure breeding Chinese black honeybees possess some natural resistance to Varroa and indicated the need or importance for the conservation of the black honeybees in China."

"One striking finding from this study was the observation of a particular group of the black honey bees from the apiary in Xinjiang 3, which were exclusively clustered together with A. m. mellifera (GenBank KF274637) in the phylogenetic tree. The tactics that the beekeeper had performed over a decade for keeping pure breeding black bee populations include strictly geographic and reproductive isolation to prevent hybridization with any other subspecies and selective breeding of local bees. In 2013, a heavy Varroa mite infestation in Xinyuan County led to the losses of 85% of honey bee colonies in this region. As a result, in autumn 2013 and spring 2014, led by the local government, two large-scale applications of controlling Varroa mites with chemical pesticides were conducted. The beekeeper who owns this apiary in the location of Xinjiang-3 claimed he had never had a problem with the mites of any kind and had never treated his hives for Varroa mites or other pests over the past decade. The routine apiary inspection by local government did not identify a case of Varroa infestation in this apiary in the past. In agreement with results of local apiary inspectors, our inspection of adult workers by sticking board and drone brood by opening capped cells of ten bee colonies in this geographic zone did not detect any Varroa mite infestation."
(https://www.researchgate.net/public...ites_and_pathogens_in_Chinese_black_honeybees)_

*Tropilaelaps* mites were found on the Chinese black bees in Xinjiang, western China. This probably means the Chinese black bees have built resistance to even the Tropilaelaps mites since the Chinese black bees were still alive and well.

Climate of Urumqi where the Chinese black bees are:









Here is a quote from the article about the Chinese black bee's cold hardiness:

_ "Compared with other A. mellifera subspecies,
Chinese black honeybees are characterized by their
large body size, resistance to disease, adaptability
to cool, high-elevation ecological zones, tendency
to fly at lower temperatures and ability to forage utilizing sporadic nectar sources (Peng et al. 2012). It
has been reported that Chinese black honeybees
could overwinter safely at temperatures as low as
−32 to 35 °C which would be lethal to most of
A. mellifera. They can also fly in temperatures about
8 °C when most bees stop foraging for nectar and
pollen (Peng et al. 2009)."_


It says in the article that the Chinese black bees from western China are Apis mellifera mellifera, but that could be outdated. I know there is a new subspecies related to the German black bee (Apis mellifera mellifera) in that same area of western China:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_sinisxinyuan



The Chinese black bees are protected by China. So I guess it is unlikely that China would allow selling of Chinese black bee semen or queens. But if the tropilaelaps mites spreads around the world, there could be some interest in these Chinese black bees for Tropilaelaps resistance.


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

There could also be the benefit of being able to easily see how drone flooding works because the bees are black. Mixing of commercial Italian bee genetics would be obvious when there is light coloration that turns up in the colonies of open mated production queens.

_"Honey bee abdominal pigmentation is one of the most recognisable traits and it is often used by beekeepers as an indicator of M-lineage subspecies purity. However, this approach may negatively impact population diversity and is futile if there is no association between tergite colour patterns and the genetic background. To assess whether this trait can be used as a proxy for introgression proportions in M-lineage subspecies, we genotyped, with highly informative SNP assays, A. m. mellifera and A. m. iberiensis individuals displaying four different colour phenotypes. The SNP data detected highly introgressed bees exhibiting a black phenotype and, at the same time, pure or marginally introgressed bees with yellow banding patterns, in both subspecies. Despite these observations, contrary to A. m. iberiensis, in A. m. mellifera, introgression proportions revealed to be a significant predictor of abdominal pigmentation. Therefore, abdominal pigmentation could be used by A. m. mellifera conservationists to guide colony selection when genetic tools are unavailable. "_
(Can introgression in M-lineage honey bees be detected by abdominal colour patterns? - Apidologie)


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

HaplozygousNut said:


> The tactics that the beekeeper had performed over a decade for keeping pure breeding black bee populations include strictly geographic and reproductive isolation





> The identiﬁcation of a geo- graphically isolated population of A. m. mellifera at one speciﬁc apiary (Xinjiang 3) indicated tha A. m. mellifera populations still existed in Chinaand demonstrated a successful preservation ofgenetic integrity of pure breeding bee population





HaplozygousNut said:


> The routine apiary inspection by local government did not identify a case of Varroa infestation in this apiary in the past. In agreement with results of local apiary inspectors, our inspection of adult workers by sticking board and drone brood by opening capped cells of ten bee colonies in this geographic zone did not detect any Varroa mite infestation."


no varroa do to geographic isolation = no problem?


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

msl said:


> no varroa do to geographic isolation = no problem?


From the referenced study:

_Chinese black honeybee samples were collected from major black honeybee conservational areas in the Xinjiang, Heilongjiang and Jilin Provinces between June and July in 2014. Honey bee samples (A. m. ligustica) maintained in an apiary of the Institute of Apicultural Research, CAAS, Beijing were also collected serving as a control group in the present study.

All the bee colonies were applied the same approaches for monitoring and treating Varroa mite populations by the same apiary inspectors.

The comparison of Varroa infestation between Chinese black bees colonies and A. m. ligustica colonies over a 25-month period based on the information provided by local apiary inspectors showed that the number of mite dropping in Chinese black honeybee colonies was signiﬁcantly lower than in A. m. ligustica colonies (P= 0·0001) through the entire observational period. Each year, the peak diﬀerences were observed between July and September. For both Chinese black honeybee and A. m. ligustica colonies, the level of Varroa infestation was relatively lower in months from January to May than in months from June to December. Our study suggests that A. m. mellifera has an advantage over other subspecies for better resistance against Varroa mites._


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

To be fair - the location "Xinjiang 3" seems to be isolated indeed (per the report).
Those magic #s they have are most likely the baseline of the truly isolated case (not truly, ultimately resistant bee).

Still, difference between the Black bees and the Italian bees is significant - nothing to sniff at.
It is real.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

GregB said:


> Those magic #s they have are most likely the baseline of the truly isolated case (not truly, ultimately resistant bee).


But if they have varroa mites, isn't it safe to say that the only thing that isolation affords them is the ability to develop a local genetic balance that allows for the mitigation of mite population growth which is the definition of resistant?


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregB said:


> To be fair - the location "Xinjiang 3" seems to be isolated indeed (per the report).
> Those magic #s they have are most likely the baseline of the truly isolated case (not truly, ultimately resistant bee).
> 
> Still, difference between the Black bees and the Italian bees is significant - nothing to sniff at.
> It is real.


Isolation means nada when the mites arrive.
looks at Australia, Mite free untill...............
once they have them then is is how fast do they spread, what the bees do and the hive mortality.
Can't have a "few" mites and call it isolation driven. none to a time point then some yes that is isolation.
some to some with no lots is not isolation caused.
unless they have lots of sunflowers 

of course IMO

GG


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

msl said:


> no varroa do to geographic isolation = no problem?


I am not sure. I assumed Varroa was spread all across the world. And Varroa was found at least near the region where the Chinese black bees were. The Chinese black bees are in the mountains if I remember correctly, so that might cause some isolation from Varroa's spread.

But one of those Chinese black bee apiaries, Xinjiang 3, did have some Tropilaelaps mites. So that apiary was not isolated enough to stop the spread of Tropilaelaps mites. Unless those Tropilaelaps mites are native to the Chinese black bee there from back a long time ago during an ice age when the Chinese black bees were thought to have a larger range that maybe could have allowed them to clash in range with Asian honeybees? Asian honeybees and Giant honeybees are native Tropilaelaps's host.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> Isolation means nada when the mites arrive.
> ..........
> of course IMO
> 
> GG


Of course, the isolation means nothing - as a way to protect your bees from mites.
I would not care to get those bees - they would be sus at my place if they never seen a live mite yet.

The study, basically, documents a place in very remote North-West China where the mites just never made it yet.

However, the bees in the North-East China are, pretty much, the same old Russian bees.
Same population - just across the border.
These are awash in mites and should be rather good.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> But if they have varroa mites, isn't it safe to say that the only thing that isolation affords them is the ability to develop a local genetic balance that allows for the mitigation of mite population growth which is the definition of resistant?


I am afraid, Russ, that specific population just never seen the mites *yet*.
Look it up on the map.
That is a very remote, hard place - no one cares to even be there.
The bees ended up there only because some hardline Russian religious sects escaped from Russia into that cold desert - Xinjiang province.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregB said:


> The study, basically, documents a place in very remote North-West China where the mites just never made it yet.


the blue line is not All zeros there were several times mites were counted, just low numbers.
9 different counts look above Zero
unless I am missing something.

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

HaplozygousNut said:


> I am not sure. I assumed Varroa was spread all across the world. And Varroa was found at least near the region where the Chinese black bees were. The Chinese black bees are in the mountains if I remember correctly, so that might cause some isolation from Varroa's spread.
> 
> *But one of those Chinese black bee apiaries, Xinjiang 3, did have some Tropilaelaps mites. * So that apiary was not isolated enough to stop the spread of Tropilaelaps mites. Unless those Tropilaelaps mites are native to the Chinese black bee there from back a long time ago during an ice age when the Chinese black bees were thought to have a larger range that maybe could have allowed them to clash in range with Asian honeybees?


Haplo - look *carefully.*
You are stating wrong facts now 
Truly isolated place had no mites of any kind reported - the location Xinjiang-3.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> *the blue line is not All zeros there were several times mites were counted, just low numbers.*
> 9 different counts look above Zero
> unless I am missing something.
> 
> GG


At such low counts I am risking calling this falsely counted *bee lice* (not varroa).
Bee lice are usually present in low numbers - harmless bugs at that.

Not surprised a bit - the varroa counters may not even know what the bee louse is.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

GregB said:


> At such low counts I am risking calling this falsely counted *bee lice* (not varroa).


They call that crawfishing down here where I'm from...


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

GregB said:


> Haplo - look *carefully.*
> You are stating wrong facts now
> Truly isolated place had no mites of any kind reported - the location Xinjiang-3.
> View attachment 72574


Oops. Sorry about that. I appreciate the correction. I misread 2 as 3.

Quote:
_"The infestation of Tropilaelaps was detected in one apiary in Xinjiang-2 but not in any other of the inspected apiaries"_


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> They call that catfishing down here where I'm from...


A matter of fact - I never seen a correction to the varroa counts based on the bee lice count incorporated into the #s.

It could be a serious issue - and yet no one ever talks about it, as if the bee lice don't exist.
Good question.

bee louse - Braula coeca Nitzsch (ufl.edu)


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Quick check.

As a matter of fact - the Russian sources even talk of bee lice treatments.
There is such a thing as braulosys (unsure if this is correct term ?) that these lice supposedly cause.
Entire apiaries may go thru treatment and quarantine.

And there you have it - the entire issue of the bee lice infestation (potentially significant!) is totally overlooked while being well known and documented (but of course forgotten and/or ignored and/or lost in translation, so to speak).

Then this thing may overlay with the varroa.
What a mess. 
And no one talks about it. 

Back to the Old World research.
Translate/read for yourself:
Браулез. Лечение пчел от браул (пчелиных вшей) (kupi-uley.ru)


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

its worth it to note all the other "black bee" apiary's were being treated, suggesting they are not TF stocks


> While no Varroa was detected in any examined bee
> hives maintained in Xinjiang-3, which never treated
> for Varroa mites, the percentage of Varroa infestation
> in bee hives kept in Xinjiang-1 (black AMM)ranged from 1 to 75%
> ...


and that mite levels increased as a funtion of time


> . Beehivesthat were maintained in one apiary of the Xinjiang
> Province (Xinjiang-1) did not treat for mites in the
> past 6 months had the highest count of Varroa miteson the sticky board


and of corse 


> Varroa infestation between any of Chinese black
> honeybee hives maintained in the National Nature
> Reserves in the Xinjiang, Heilongjiang and Jilin
> Provinces and the bee hives of subspecies
> ...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

msl said:


> its worth it to note all the other "black bee" apiary's were being treated, *suggesting they are not TF stocks*
> and that mite levels increased as a funtion of time
> and of corse


Right, those papers never suggested there is TF-directed work in China.
I have not noticed any indication of that.
But they do have good material to work with IF anyone cares.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregB said:


> harmless bugs at that.


The more I read about the bee lice, the more I am unsure.
Heavy lice infestations supposedly do have significant negative impact.

Regardless, I was not able to find good sources on the actually observed bee lice numbers and how they manifested.
And regardless, even if small the bee lice counts could be skewing the varroa counts - possibility is there.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

GregB said:


> But they do have good material to work with IF anyone cares.


I don't see the study showing that.......there is just not enuff there

my take is they took the china equilivant of almond bees (likly a royal jelly strain) and put it up against the local AMM. and then they tracked the mite fall on treated Hives
not superizing the bees that had undergone strong selection for a single economic trait and performance under treatemnts faired poorly

what we don't have in this study is the ability to compare performance vs outher restiance stocks
we have acess to good bees here in the US....








A New Strain of Virus Discovered in China Specific to the Parasitic Mite Varroa destructor Poses a Potential Threat to Honey Bees


The ectoparasitic mite, Varroa destructor, feeds directly on honey bees and serves as a vector for transmitting viruses among them. The Varroa mite causes relatively little damage to its natural host, the Eastern honey bee (Apis cerana) but it is the ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov





but the grass is always greener on the outher side of the fence.... especially if the ouhter side is a "can't have"....
"if only we could get X" becomes the foucse, and the "reason" for failure

and lasty, (as I often point out) importing bees means moving pathogens








A New Strain of Virus Discovered in China Specific to the Parasitic Mite Varroa destructor Poses a Potential Threat to Honey Bees


The ectoparasitic mite, Varroa destructor, feeds directly on honey bees and serves as a vector for transmitting viruses among them. The Varroa mite causes relatively little damage to its natural host, the Eastern honey bee (Apis cerana) but it is the ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

msl said:


> .............
> we have acess to good bees here in the US....
> 
> 
> ...


Not arguing.
We do, in fact, have plenty of good bees right here and now.
No need to be chasing far and wide.
They are already here.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

next one is scary.... (speaking tothe OP not greag)
they are in a very col area, does this mean they have developed a cold hardy (read survives extended brood breaks) tropilaelaps? 
another mite vectored virus is one thing, but imagine the impact of tropilaeaps loose mainland US 
I can't think of any bee genetics worth that risk... we have seen beekeepers make that mistake time and time again with varoa


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

msl said:


> next one is scary.... (speaking tothe OP not greag)
> *they are in a very col area, does this mean they have developed a cold hardy (read survives extended brood breaks) tropilaelaps?*
> another mite vectored virus is one thing, but imagine the impact of tropilaeaps loose mainland US
> I can't think of any bee genetics worth that risk... we have seen beekeepers make that mistake time and time again with varoa


I doubt it, MSL - about the cold-hardy tropi mite.

Pretty much the tropi can be imported anywhere for one season - until the cold season break.
No matter how cold - if someone imports the bees - look for problems.
Yet another scary reason to stop the bee imports.

Once no more brood - they should starve.
Of course, until some crazy almond bees keep brooding thru the winter.
Of course, the southern US regions are a sitting duck.

BTW - a proposed treatment against the tropi is forced brood break/formic acid over the bloodless colony.
Yet another reason to learn how to cage the queens.


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