# Jumbo depth frames in an 8 frame box?



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Has anyone run 11 1/4" deep frames in an 8 frame wide box? 
I have them in 10 and 12 frame boxes and just to make for more sorting, mismatching and confusion am thinking of making a few.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

With your ever increasing dementia and hoarding tendencies do you really think that’s a good idea?:scratch:









I’m not sure you even know where you are in this photo


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I cant imagine lifting one of those extra deep frames out of a box especially if it was full of honey and you were running 7 of them in an 8 frame box inch: 

However, I might consider running 5 of them in a modified nuc  :lookout:


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

rwurster said:


> I cant imagine lifting one of those extra deep frames out of a box especially if it was full of honey and you were running 7 of them in an 8 frame box. However, I might consider running 5 of them in a modified nuc  :lookout:


They would be for brood frames only. I would use mediums for honey supers.

I put a deep box on an all 8 frame medium hive and the bees immediately moved the brood nest into the deep. Makes me wonder about that whole all mediums theory.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I'm not on board with the medium theory either. I have run all mediums before but it was to get mediums drawn. I run all 8 frame deep equipment and on average I get 10 - 12 frames of brood. I bet your 8 frame boxes with extra deep frames would work well for the entire brood nest. No top bar/bottom bars for the queen to transit to get to the rest of the brood nest. Interesting concept.


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## Wolftrainer (May 24, 2009)

I put a deep and medium 8 frame box together and made my own frames with small cell wax foundation. I put 9 frames 1" 1/4" spacing with room to spare. I only need 1 box to over winter in Iowa no lifting of boxes. It worked so well for me I have 15 in use. The bees make holes where they want and the queen does not have to cross any wood frames or spaces. To inspect I do not lift any boxes just frames. 
My frames inside measure 17" X 14 5/8". There is 2142 square inches of comb in my box and 1890 square inches of comb in a Dadant jumbo. My boxes are for brood only I use mediums for honey supers.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

I've been running 8 frame medium boxes. I limit the broodnest to 6 over 6 with a QX and follower boards. They kept it full of brood and pollen with the honey pushed out until the fall. I took out the QX and will be looking at what they do in the Spring.

My desire to go to extra-deep brood frames is held back by the ability to move frames wherever needed.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Yeah the only thing holding me back from some custom deep frames is interchangability. I do the same thing Wolftrainer except I run double deep 8s for brood nest and then super with mediums. I also super with deeps when I run out of mediums which to be honest isn't too bad.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I do have to admit that I’ve noticed over the years that my hives with at least one deep brood box seems to do better than all mediums.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Has anyone run 11 1/4" deep frames in an 8 frame wide box? 

I have.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

odfrank said:


> They would be for brood frames only. I would use mediums for honey supers.
> 
> I put a deep box on an all 8 frame medium hive and the* bees immediately moved the brood nest into the deep*. Makes me wonder about that whole all mediums theory.


Me too wonder, but try this.


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

I have built 4 brood deep boxes to install 1-1/4" width that are 12" deep and some are 12-1/4". These are all foundationless with 3 skewers for guides. 1 thing that I like about it is the bees draw straight comb with the skewers as well as the queen laying in the cells with the skewers. I use shish ka bob bamboo 12" long skewers.







Skewers are $1.00 for qty: 100 Length 12"


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## clong (Apr 6, 2015)

About the skewers: 

What is the diameter?
Where do you purchase them?


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

odfrank said:


> I put a deep box on an all 8 frame medium hive and the bees immediately moved the brood nest into the deep. Makes me wonder about that whole all mediums theory.


When I started beekeeping again three years ago after a few years off I started with all 8 frame gear To save my back. Last summer I put an 8 frame deep on top of an 8 frame medium on two of my hives and on both the bees moved into it and the queens never layed another egg in the medium.

I've got ten more 8 frame deeps made from Advantech sitting in my garage for next year.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Yes, having a lot of experience with Jumbo frames, I am more convinced that the all 8 frame mediums setup is almost as wrong a direction as small cell. I just bought 8 frame deeps for one client I setup on all mediums and will forge forward on moving them into deep brood chambers.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Since I have the shop to make my own frames, I have been thinking about building one set of custom jumbo frames that are 12-3/4" to go into two of my existing medium stacked boxes. In terms of area that gives me 27% more comb area than what I have in two medium-8 boxes but with large areas for better laying patterns. The extra-jumbo frames might be enough space to keep all the brood on the lower frames, and I think the bigger frames will result in better laying patterns.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Please make 8 for me. A buddy who promised me those never came through even though I gave him top and bottom bars.
Oliver



JConnolly said:


> Since I have the shop to make my own frames, I have been thinking about building one set of custom jumbo frames that are 12-3/4" to go into two of my existing medium stacked boxes. In terms of area that gives me 27% more comb area than what I have in two medium-8 boxes but with large areas for better laying patterns. The extra-jumbo frames might be enough space to keep all the brood on the lower frames, and I think the bigger frames will result in better laying patterns.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Will do, if I realistically get around to it. I have another shop project underway right now for the wife, one I've been promising to do for years, so it'll be late winter before I can even think of doing it. 

But anything to add to your sorting, mismatching, and confusion  See why I think I'm done experimenting with pretty Warre boxes.

I found from experience that making frames was a royal PITA, especially the top bars so specifically what I was thinking of making was just extra long side bars that I would attach to purchased Mann Lake top and bottom bars. My jig is set up to match the Mann Lake bars. Once set up it will be pretty easy to make an extra set of long sides that you can attach to your top and bottom bars. Is that OK? 

It looks like such a set of frames in two stacked 8 frame boxes will have a comb area that is almost the same as 10 jumbo frames. Dadant wrote on page 12 of his book that 1890 sq. was the area he found was needed. This set up falls short by ~156 sq inches. I'm thinking it will still be large enough for the brood nest, although smaller than two Langstroth deeps, but I have no experience with jumbo frames yet so truthfully I don't know what I'm talking about, its just a wild [crazy] guess.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

odfrank said:


> Please make 8 for me. A buddy who promised me those never came through even though I gave him top and bottom bars.
> Oliver


Me too! This is exactly what I've been thinking. I use Acorn foundation and was thinking of pinning it in the top (or bottom). The ML frames are my standard. I just can't get decent cost effective wood.

Another delay on my side is the desire for uniform equipment. But, if it makes a huge difference it would be worth it.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

JConnolly said:


> Will do, if I realistically get around to it. I have another shop project underway right now for the wife, one I've been promising to do for years, so it'll be late winter before I can even think of doing it.
> 
> But anything to add to your sorting, mismatching, and confusion  See why I think I'm done experimenting with pretty Warre boxes.
> 
> ...



Have you given any more consideration to making the extra deep Dadant frame modifications?

I have a couple of sets of standard dadant depth 11 1/4" frames with wired wax and just started assembling some that are the 12 3/4" ones that will fit in two medium depth boxes stacked. I want to see how they get drawn out and if that extra size is manageable. Plastic foundation takes one full sheet and just shy of half of another sheet. If you cut off the two thinned edges you can get a horizontal joint that matches up cell pattern quite well. A couple of tabs glued each side to the endbar should locate the splice quite well. They wont be going in my extractor!


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

There are some neat ideas here. But if I did it, I'd just wire, coat with beeswax, and let the bees draw the comb. (my days of foundationless deeps without wires or 40lb fishing line have ended)


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Gypsi said:


> There are some neat ideas here. But if I did it, I'd just wire, coat with beeswax, and let the bees draw the comb. (my days of foundationless deeps without wires or 40lb fishing line have ended)


Foundationless with reinforcing wire or monofiliament would be cheap and easy. I plan to get them drawn out in stacked nuc boxes; I find they draw comb nicer in narrow and tall configuration but have never tried the extra deep frames. I should have entertainment value if nothing else. 

I want to try wintering in extra deep single brood configuration. Single box of standard depth is do able but they need often need feeding in the spring. It is a long winter here with dandelions not in full bloom till third week in may.


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## rail (Apr 1, 2011)

I use Jumbo eight frame brood chambers and medium supers with great success in the Carolinas. I like the extra room for the queen to lay without crossing chambers. I’ve tried eight, ten and twelve frame Jumbo hives and in the Carolinas the eight frame works best! I modify deep chambers to Jumbo by adding additional wood to the bottom of hive body. I purchase frames from Thorne Beekeeping in England, great customer service. Foundation is purchased from Dadant. It’s been a learning curve and a treasure hunt for frames and foundation but it is worth it! Can’t believe the USA beekeepers moved away from Jumbo. Still prominent in England...


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

odfrank said:


> They would be for brood frames only. I would use mediums for honey supers.
> 
> I put a deep box on an all 8 frame medium hive and the bees immediately moved the brood nest into the deep. Makes me wonder about that whole all mediums theory.


odfrank, I was thinking of a similar plot but run the frames the short way so that my 8 frame mediums can all be supers. so best guess 13 wide 20ish inches deep, as many as the standard lang would hold. go with single brood box but very deep, then supers with the standard lang medium frames. figured doing split would be easier with more frames, lighter, easier to mix in some stores frames and brood frames. I could set it on top of an over winter hive and let them move up and then remove the bottom and let them keep the new style unit.
GG


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