# Moving down into the next box



## bnm1000

My bees have filled up the top box with comb, in fact, they filled the top box quite quickly. However, they don't seem to be going down into the bottom box - I have been expecting them to start drawing comb in the bottom box for a couple of weeks. the hive is real active, and seems to be doing well.

Any ideas? Do I just sit back and wait - or should I do anything to encourage them to build comb in the lower box.

Thanks!


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## Bush_84

Any chance you could shift a small piece of comb into the lower box? If there is no flow on feeding would help, but of something is flowering forego the feeding.

Edit- I am having a similar issue. Moving a comb down is your best bet to get them to move down. As I am in the main flow right now I supered with a seed comb above.


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## [email protected]

Why not just reverse the boxes. This works fine for thousands of beekeepers and millions of hives.


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## gmcharlie

if you have a screened bottom board its to light for them down there. swap boxs and let them move up, or split them and put some frames in each box.


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## Bush_84

Remember that we are in the warre forum. Nadiring is a fundamental concept of warre hives. I am not against supering a warre but you have to decide how you want to keep bees. Typically in warre hives comb isn't easily movable. So simply splitting the comb between two boxes may not be an easy task. You could simply put a box on top, but again you have to decide how you want to manage your warres. If you put an empty box on top you will likely lose any chance at removing combs. If you seed that box with a comb, the bees will be more likely to draw comb as you desire them to. If you want to stay closer to the warre philosophy you would do nothing. If you want to do something, but stay as close to warre principals as you can then I would put some comb into the lower box.


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## bnm1000

Okay - I wimped out.... This is my first ever hive. I went out and started taking the hive apart - then added a box to the top because I wasn't sure I wanted to disassemble the entire hive by myself and put another box on the bottom. i was hesitant to take the main box off and set it on the ground with all of the bees zooming around!

I do wonder if the light coming in from the screen bottom is what is keeping them from moving to the lower box. I think I might go out this weekend and put some poster board underneath the screen.


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## rationalanimal

I just ran in to this problem myself. The top box was full to the bottom with comb and bees, but even with short foundation starter strips on the bars in the lower box (which have lead to perfectly straight comb above) they would not move down. Given their population I was afraid they might swarm. I used a custom hive tool my extremely tallented wife forged for me to free up the bracing on one bar and moved it down. Within a few hours 1/3 of the lower box was filled with busy bees building new comb on the starter strips. I think the biggest risk to this maneuver is damaging the queen. I had a 1 in 8 chance of her being on the bar I was working with and even going slowly the hive tool could cause collateral damage. I REALY hope to avoid doing this again. This is my first year with a Warre is I didn't see another option. In the future, when harvesting I plan to leave a couple of inches of drawn comb on each bar, and use that to seed the boxes as I nader them- as I have seen recommended on this forum.


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## Bush_84

Another option is to just do this routinely as a part of your management strategy. It will require you to open the hive, but it should work. What you'd do is shift a comb down into a lower box before things get fully drawn out. When the box is fully drawn, it's hard to do. If you do it before things get fully drawn, it should be easy. I have done just that in the past. Just find a medium sized comb that hasn't attached to the sides yet. May also get easier with time if you extract some.


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## Kelbor

I too have/am having similar issues....If given the choice, which combs would you move down (comb number one and eight being the ones on the sides)?


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## Bush_84

Whichever comb you can get out. It will most likely be one on the edges.


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## A. S. Templeton

[email protected] said:


> Why not just reverse the boxes. This works fine for thousands of beekeepers and millions of hives.


With frames, maybe. With a Warré, putting empties on top risks construction of Tower of Babel comb (built upward from top bars) -- you don't want to go there!

Try priming subinserted boxes' topbars with beeswax strips (see youtube) or known-disease free comb.


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## Michael Blewett

I did the exact same thing last week, and was VERY sorry I did. They started building comb on top of the top bars of the bottom box AND joined it to the seed comb I had attached to one of the top bars of the supered box. yesterday I had to go in and shave off everything they had done in the last week and it was an awful mess with tons of very angry bees. The worst thing was that numerous bees were killed. Warre is non-invasive for a reason, which is a lesson I (and the bees) have learned the hard way. I'll try to insert a pic of what they had done.


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## Bush_84

You should have let them finish it off, fill it with honey, and harvest it. Who cares how they build comb if you are just going to harvest it. I have supered my foundationless Lang with a single comb and every single comb came out ok.


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## bnm1000

Oh great.....My bees have been frantically building from both the top and bottom of the upper box now. I am hoping that since they are going so strong that I can just hang tight and maybe they will just connect it all the way and I can cut the comb with a fishing wire from the bottom of the upper box when I harvest the box at a later date. 

Like most lessons, it seems that I have to learn them the hard way.


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## Beethinking

To avoid the issue of them sitting in one box to perpetuity, I have begun adding boxes on top and the bottom of my Warre hives. When adding on top it is critical that you move at least one comb upward from the box below (or have some on hand) so that they don't build the "Tower of Babel" that A.S. Templeton was describing. It's not foolproof, but it seems to minimize it. I also move a comb down when nadiring. This way they can go whichever direction they'd like. 

Matt


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## Alleybeez

Hey GMCHARLIE I just caught your comment on the light from the screened bottom. I had not heard that before. Can you expand on it any?



gmcharlie said:


> if you have a screened bottom board its to light for them down there. swap boxs and let them move up, or split them and put some frames in each box.


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## HoneyintheRox

gmcharlie said:


> if you have a screened bottom board its to light for them down there. swap boxs and let them move up, or split them and put some frames in each box.


I'm having a similar issue - do you think adding a third box to darken the second one would help? Or maybe lemongrass oil? Or some combination of both?


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## Bush_84

Or maybe a bottom board/slatted rack?


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## bbrowncods

Did Warre address this issue in his writtings? It seems as if the bees just don't naturally move into the bottom box without some assistance.


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## Beethinking

Strong colonies/large swarms tend to move down without issue. Weaker colonies/smaller swarms tend to be slower or need some coaxing. Warre recommended populating with more bees than the typical 3lb package, so maybe that's part of challenge.


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## Zonker

Seems like the moving down is the major topic of concern in the Warre world. Its weird that Mr. Warre didn't address the problem in his book


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## Maryland Beekeeper

I wonder if thinner TB's would help ?


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## Bubbles

The problem I see with thinner TB's is that it might not be strong enough to hold the combs that are built on them. I toyed with that idea but chickened out of it.


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## praxis178

I'd be inclined to make the topbars into actual frames. Leave the frames foundationless (Warre does mention doing this for ease of extraction and for keeping the drawn comb which is very useful), but being fully framed they are much easier to move and inspect as and when wanted.

Yes building the full frames is harder than just making a topbar, and some would say if you're going to that length why not just go the next step and use a Lang hive, but I think the pay off might be worth it. Note I don't keep Warres (one is on the drawing board for spring) so don't say this from experience, just book smarts.


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## Bubbles

I learned from another forum to build "ladders" to place in the empty boxes and the bees will gladly move up or down. I tried that last year and it worked. I used 2 halves of a foundation nailed between half topbars for my ladder since I have no access to old comb.


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## odfrank

I took my scroll saw to some medium depth brood frames to make bait combs for my new Warre's. Easy way to cut it to length and cut in the frame lug.


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## Zonker

I'm lost. Do the ladders hang in the lower empty box?


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## praxis178

Sure looks that way, they kinda look like they fill the role of a frame of empty drawn comb.... Would that be how they work?


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## Bubbles

Taken on 6-29-12

I hung the ladders in an empty box and placed it on top of the original hive box as a super. Four days later, I took a picture of the bees' work on the ladders through the window. It was a little humid in there but you can tell the black foundation is covered with white comb. Two weeks after that, they got busy building a third comb from the middle top bar. I was really impressed with how fast the bees could work when they put their mind to it.








Taken on 7-14-12


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## Bush_84

You can do both. Use this box to go above or below. I plan o doing both.


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## Chris Danz

I have melted comb down and painted it on triangle shaped top bars before I nadir the box. The bees moved down quickly. This was after I had another nadir box in which I had been waiting for them to start building comb, but they wouldn't. I made a box to fit on top of a Warre box, but it was sized for langstroth frames, which is what the bees come on. They wouldn't move down into the Warre box until I painted the top bars of the 2nd box I nadired with beeswax. I put that one on top of the original Warre box and they finally moved down. I was able to get some wax on the first box's top bars but I wasn't able to check it as fall came on quickly. I have seen the bees a few times this winter and they seem to be doing well. This is my first beehive. Maybe you could try that method.


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## Bush_84

So you would melt comb down to pain it on top bars? Why not just put the comb in the bottom box?


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## Chris Danz

The wax wasn't in comb form. it was crushed.


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## beeman2009

Have you tried using some LGO rubbed inside the box? :scratch: Works great in bait hives for catching swarms. Just a thought.


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## Bush_84

Chris Danz said:


> The wax wasn't in comb form. it was crushed.


Ok that makes sense. I extracted my combs this year and all held up fine. So I will be using drawn comb this year, which is a huge benefit. I will not have any false floor problems with drawn comb available.


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## BernhardHeuvel

bnm1000 said:


> ... don't seem to be going down into the bottom box


Need nectar flow or feeding.
Use bait combs or bait foundation.
Super instead of nadiring if theyinsist on staying in one box. 

Don't wait, you need several boxes of comb for proper wintering.
































































Bernhard


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## Zonker

I love concept but I worry that the stamped foundation is drone sized. I think I'm going to tire it but put the ladder on the edges where the bees would normally do the drone cells.


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## Solarbeez

Well I've finally got my single box bees to expand, although I'm risking the "Tower of Babel" scenario. I didn't want to add someone else's comb and I couldn't separate the old brood box comb, so I used some old comb from a failed queenless hive that swarmed late in the season. I shot some video here... http://solarbeez.com/2013/03/27/warre-worries-waning/
I think when it gets time to separate the boxes I'll use Ubernerd's hive lift to jack up the box just a bit and see-saw a cheese wire through the bottom of the attached comb...anybody ever do this? Successfully?
Pat


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## beeman2009

rationalanimal said:


> I used a custom hive tool my extremely tallented wife forged for me to free up the bracing on one bar and moved it down.


Could you post a pic of this custom hive tool? I know I'm late, but I just found this ( rainy day reading ).


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## gmcharlie

Alleybeez said:


> Hey GMCHARLIE I just caught your comment on the light from the screened bottom. I had not heard that before. Can you expand on it any?



Sorry for the delay... Yes it seems quite often teh queens will not lay near the sreened bottom boards. I have heard its the light, and also references to the inability to control humidity and temp near the screen. no matter the reason, I am 100% sure its true. I cannot keep a queen in the bottom box with a SBB. if I try excluders the hive dwindles..... Now others will argue, so I am just reporting on what I see in my area in IL


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## antiemm

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum.... Lots of great information here! 
I was having the same problem getting my bees to move down into the bottom box. I recently saw in a few of Phil Chandler's videos that he was using wood chips and other organic matter in the bottom of some of his hives as an experiment in creating habitat for beneficial critters that normally exist in feral hives. 
I built a screened bottom "sump" of sorts with an entrance notched at the top and filled it with wood chips and pine needles. I am waiting to see if this might encourage them to use at least part of the bottom box????? I am hoping this will solve the light issue and still provide some ventilation without it being too breezy to keep warm. It may also absorb excess moisture if needed. I live near Seattle so excess moisture is always an issue. We'll see.?
I tried to insert some pictures but it's not working ; (


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## Darb

The Warre Store posted this on their Facebook page... 

*Although your bees will likely build out the upper hive body in no time (often only a week or so), they will not immediately follow-up by building out the lower one. Folks sometimes become concerned that the bees are not moving down as quickly as they think they should, but here's why: Your bees will not build more comb than they can protect and cover. Once they've built out the top box and the queen has laid all of that comb up with brood, the bees will cover and care for that brood until it emerges. Once there is a larger bee population (about a month after the initial installation), construction will begin in the lower body. Don't get impatient and don't switch the hive body positions, putting the upper below the lower. This seems to be a popular thing to do, but if you do this with a Warre top-bar hive, the bees will likely build upward into the top box and cause a real mess. If you're using a modified hive with foundation, you can change the box positions without this concern, but it isn't necessary and may not speed things up much anyway.*


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## alchemybees

I'm a total beginner, this is my first season with bees and I have them in 2 warre hives. During one inspection the top box had 6 bars built with the middle 4 already attached to the sides. I took a smaller outside bar out and moved it down a box. The bees continued building the top box and by the time they were working on bar 8, they were already working on the smaller one I'd moved down. Since then they've started two more next to it in box 2 (from the top). When that box gets 75% built, I'll probably move a small unattached comb piece down again.

My second hive was started from a local swarm and is a bit behind. But earlier in the week I did the same thing in their hive. They do use that small comb piece as a ladder and should start working on it again in a couple of more weeks.


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## Ricky Bee

Here's what I think is happening, as I have experienced with my Warre as well as my Langstroths:

The colony starts on installation with a limited number of workers to build comb, forage, nurse the brood, etc. They will build enough comb for the queen to lay in and for storage of nectar and pollen. The population will decline initially until the hatch-out rate exceeds the mortality rate of the older bees. It doesn't make sense for them to make more comb than they need to fill their current needs, since they can only keep a limited amount of brood warm. Once the first brood cycle emerges, you will see a dramatic increase in population, and you also will see the beginning of rapid expansion of comb, but it still may not extend into the second box. Now the queen has much more room to lay in for the next brood cycle, and the population will again increase dramatically in another three weeks along with another expansion of comb. When they need the space to expand into the second box is really just a matter of the starting population. They do not need any encouragement to expand into the second box. It's all a matter of population and how much brood they can tend to and keep warm with the existing population. They will expand into the next box when they are ready.

Ricky


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## Zonker

Finally a reasonable explaination. Makes total sense. Thanks Ricky.


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## Darb

Warre Store posted again on this subject:

*I think the biggest myth in beekeeping is that "bees like to move up" when building their nest. This is absolutely false! Bees absolutely do NOT prefer to move upward and if given the option, will always start building their combs at the top of a space and move down! In Langstroth beekeeping, the bees are FORCED to move upward by starting with only one hive body and then adding to the top of the hive after that first body is mostly built out. If you start a Langstroth hive with two boxes stacked, the bees will build out the top box first and then move downward. This is the natural way they work. It IS true that bees HATE to have vacant space above the brood nest, so when an empty box is added to the top of a hive they will (usually-not always) work diligently to fill it.*


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## BernhardHeuvel

Best is to try and see yourself. My way is: nadir in the first year, super in the second year. It is the best way to get decent, healthy and strong colonies. At least in my region. (All beekeeping is local.)


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## BeekeepingIsGood

Hi Bernhard, can you explain why you feel it's better to super in the second year? Is it a matter of established colonies being better able to handle the air space above the brood nest? Or does a space above the brood nest encourage an established hive comfortable on it's comb to make new comb?


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## BernhardHeuvel

In the first year the bees establish a nest. That is not the case in the second year. The nest is established and there is no other worry than foraging for honey, increasing brood and multiplying by swarming. So in the first year it works pretty well to nadir the new boxes. Under some circumstances this can be true in the second year, too. If the bees winter on an unestablished nest, say because the nest has been started late in the season, they go down pretty well with wintered wax builders. (Skeppists do this by shaking bees at the end of Octobre.) Or if the Spring flow is really bad. No flow, not much building. A nadired box prevents the bees from swarming. The combs build in a nadired box in Spring with a weak flow are useless, most of the time. Lots of drone comb and combs with wider cells than normal. No good for any brood and you seldomly find brood in it. I use such boxes to super when the main flow hits, so the cells get used for storing honey in them.

Bees like to store honey overhead, simple as that. So if there is no interest in building the brood nest downwards, there certainly is an interest to increase the honey comb space above the broodnest. The good thing about supering is, that you prevent the broodnest from backflooding with nectar. So you keep the queen on laying eggs, so swarm tendencies are low. That is especially true for older queens. Young vigirous queens lay eggs at a fast rate, outrunning the incoming nectar most of the times. Older queens can't keep the pace. Supering helps in both cases.

If your main flow is late in summer, than you can nadir, let them swarm early (or do splits by the boxes) and increase hive numbers before the flow. Where I live there is a Spring flow only. Very early. Supering helps in this case.

All beekeeping is local and one has to try different things, working out the optimum. As a rule of thumb and it works pretty well in many locations: First year nadiring, second year supering.

Try to super first with drawn comb. You can use half-finished boxes from the bottom, not finished last summer for example. Once it depopulates when clustering for winter I take those boxes and store them during winter just to super them next Spring. After they took the super I super again the next one. Can be starter strips with some sort of ladder.

I suppose in a natural setting the bees fill any cavaties with lots and lots of comb. A lot of comb space seems most natural to me. Bees entering a cavity fill it with comb in the first year. Another swarm may enter the same cavity and fill it with more comb. And so on. So in the end there are huge combs.

Bees can buffer incoming nectar in empty combs that I call buffer space. Temporary storing space. The broodnest can increase while the honey stores get refilled for the next winter. (Also note that the water content is reduced, so for 1 part of honey four parts of nectar must be stored temporarily.)

In a manmade bee hive the space is very limited and backfilling of the broodnest occurs quickly. That is a manmade problem. (Since we can't transport full tree trunks...we have to use smaller hives.)

This calls for manmade - called it unnatural if you like - solutions like supering. In my experience in my location it helps the hives thriving. I get a honey harvest, strong hives. Nadiring only produced no harvests, barely enough winter stores for the bees (often I had to feed) and weakened hives with health problems. Of course a lot depends on the nectar flow situation where you live. Mine is Spring flow and nothing after.

Nadir in the first year of establishment of the hive and super in the following years. Give it a go.


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## Connie1

Is it recommended to move 2 drawn frames from the bottom brood box into the top (newly added) brood chamber to entice them 'up' there? And when should I stop feeding them? Our weather here NE continues to be cool bet 60-70F.


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## Solarbeez

Hi Cacklewack,
I think these are your hive kits I bought last year. I had some problems getting the bees to go into the next box also. I didn't want to use foundation and I didn't have much comb...so I built some cedar "t-posts", melted wax on them and used a few precious pieces of comb 'welded' to the t-posts. It worked so well, I've now got a honey bound problem which I will fix in a couple of days. I took some photos to illustrate.
http://solarbeez.com/2013/06/19/honey-bound/
I like your hive kits and added the second Warre (the one on the right) this year.


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## Solarbeez

After reading about the "Tower of Babel" problem, I realized that was ME in spades. I had finally got the bees to move, but it was always UP. They would start building upward to connect comb to the t-post ladders I had built. Not cool. I knew I would have to deal with it sooner or later, but thanks to Bernhard I think I managed it by using a thin stainless-steel wire tied onto two broom stick pieces of wood and 'sawing it back and forth.' Very little damage to the bees or the comb. The hardest part was cracking the boxes apart to slip the wire between.
I took some pictures and video to illustrate.
http://solarbeez.com/2013/06/26/fixing-the-honey-bound-problem/
I was tempted to harvest that beautiful honeycomb, but held off. If the bees fill the empty box during this blackberry nectar flow, I'll harvest the top box. If not, that'll be their winter stores.


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## Hopsbees27

To DARB, I wouldn't be too quick to accept the explanation you posted from the Warre Store. I say this because if you removed the top bars from the lower boxes the bees will continue to build. If the Warre store quote was accurate then the bees would stop building with or without the lower top bars in place. I believe the reason they stop building is because they perceive the top bars in the lower boxes to be the floor of the hive. Many of the solutions presented here like moving comb, or building "bridge" like solarbeez described is a much better solution.


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## BeekeepingIsGood

I don't think they see it as a floor, I think they see it as an obstruction. It gets in the way of their ability to keep everything tight together.

In my experience they do move down to the next box but it takes them longer. If there is eggs or honey in the box below they seem to build egg or honey combs right beside it instantly. 

Lots of bees hang out in a empty bottom box and pass through it to go to the entrance. It might be a matter of the young comb building bees are a bit shy to travel over obstructions?


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## Hopsbees27

@Beekeeping is good - whether it's a floor or obstruction is almost a matter of semantics. The result is the same. The bees don't move down into the successive boxes as rapidly as (we think) they should. 

Your statement _"In my experience they do move down to the next box but it takes them longer" _ actually identifies the crux of this thread. Why does it take them longer? More importantly, what can we do to eliminate this apparent reticence to build in successive boxes (aside from removing the top bars as described above)??


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## BeekeepingIsGood

Hopsbees27 said:


> @Beekeeping is good - whether it's a floor or obstruction is almost a matter of semantics. The result is the same.


It's an important distinction. The result might be the same but the solution, if any, might be different.


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## AkDan

something I learned this year. pull a small piece of comb while you still can. early after hiving before its attached to anything but one bar, keep in a safe place and when nadering, you can easily add this as one of the bars. Now if I could only figure out how to pick up 4 boxes, alone, to nader!


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## DrDwilliams

I've returned to beekeeping after 30 years when I kept bees for an FFA project for a few years. Decided to go the Warre route. I installed a BeeWeaver package in April. In early May, to encourage my bees to move into the second box, I moved a couple of frames down. But when adding the third box, everything was propolized down tight and so I just nadired the box.

I read this thread back in late May when I noticed that my bees had not moved down into the third box. So I closed the screened bottom. They were pretty aggressive that day, and since I'd been checking them pretty much bi-weekly, I decided to quit messing with them and let them do their business. 

Now it's August and I noticed what I thought was some comb being built down onto the bottom. I decided it might would be a good idea to add a fourth box. Since it is so hard to look and see what's going on, I put my little video camera in the box that I set the hive one when adding a box.

After adding the fourth box and getting everything cleaned up, I went in and watched the video - much to my surprise and chagrin, the third box has no comb in it. Yikes - here it is middle of August and I'm now worried about them not having enough stores for winter. The hive felt like >50 pounds lifting it - but only two boxes. 

Now I have two boxes drawn on top and two empty on the bottom. Am I in trouble?


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## ckohl

DrDWilliams, I don't believe you are in any trouble at all. I am attaching a picture from one of our Warre's that I took on March 9th 2013. The colony was hived from a small swarm on Father's Day of last year (2012). It failed to fill even one box by autumn. We were certain that this colony and one just like it were doomed. Clearly there were not enough honey stores, bees, etc... We were delighted to find that we were dead wrong about how much the bees need to survive winter. Specifically the prolonged cold, miserable winter we just experienced here in Northeast Pennsylvania - a winter that provided frost on Memorial Day weekend before finally letting go. Both of these hives have expanded rapidly this year and are doing just fine. The other 8 Warre hives in our apiary all came through the winter as well. I don't believe you have anything to worry about. We have had Warre hives since 2009. We have seen multiple hives overwinter on 1 box of stores, and the aforementioned 2 hives over wintered on far less. Good luck! Chris - Sweet Valley Hives

P.s. windows in the boxes are an incredible upgrade for answering the "what's going on in there" question.


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## BernhardHeuvel

DrDwilliams said:


> ... not moved down ...were pretty aggressive that day, ...lifting it - but only two boxes.


Just guessing, but it seems the colony requeened by themselves. Supersedure. Or swarming.

Lifting: I never lift more than one box. So I dismantle the hive, turn the boxes upside down (like a skep) and have a brilliant view on what is going on. You also put the boxes on their side for a detailled and decent inspection. 

This way (this a German Warré beekeeper):










That colony was started in June 2013.


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## JasonERD

I made a split in to a warre on June 15th. They filled the top box nicely, but haven't moved into the second box yet. I am guessing that they might have swarmed, so I am hoping that they will start building when the fall flow gets going. I am going to try to inspect as best I can today to see if they have a queen that is laying. I just hope they can store enough to make it through the winter.


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## DrDwilliams

CKOHL, That's encouraging. Thanks.


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## DrDwilliams

BernhardHeuvel,

Thanks for the tip on dismantling and turning the boxes over or on their side - that helps a lot. And for the picture - wow!

DW


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## JasonERD

JasonERD said:


> I made a split in to a warre on June 15th. They filled the top box nicely, but haven't moved into the second box yet. I am guessing that they might have swarmed, so I am hoping that they will start building when the fall flow gets going. I am going to try to inspect as best I can today to see if they have a queen that is laying. I just hope they can store enough to make it through the winter.


I looks like my hive swarmed, probably when I was on vacation... no wonder they aren't moving down right now.. They have barely enough bees to cover the comb they have.

They are capping the last of the worker brood now, so I think it will be a few weeks before they have a laying queen again. hopefully then they will build at least the second box for the winter.


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## DrDwilliams

sorry to hear that.


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## Solarbeez

Is anything wrong with getting the bees to build upward in a Warre? 
I have had great success in getting the bees to move upward using these 'ladders.'
http://solarbeez.com/2014/04/23/moving-up-the-ladder-of-success-in-my-warre-hive/
My question is...is this the right thing to do? I think Bernhard said to nadir the first year, super the second year. This hive came from a swarm from my log hive on April 17, 2013. I used two boxes to over winter. I didn't take any honey from it, but I 'caved in' and fed a dry sugar mixture two times starting late October.

Last year my first Warre hive became honeybound... http://solarbeez.com/2013/06/19/honey-bound/ under similar circumstances. I had added ladders, they built up fast, then stopped. Maybe it wasn't a honey bound problem, but a problem with the queen after they swarmed May 12, 2013. Maybe the new queen was weak. In any case the hive got robbed out in late July because of a lack of bees to defend it.
Am I headed to that result now by supering? The main nectar flow will be blackberries blossoms, starting sometime in May or so. I have to admit that supering is what I'd rather do because the comb is so white and they fill it with honey, but I don't want to do it at the expense of the bees.


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## BeekeepingIsGood

I go both ways depending one what I think they could use more. Sometimes I've probably been wrong, but I don't think there is much risk if you have a strong colony that seems reluctant to move down. The yahoo warré group is full of people talking about having difficulty getting them to move down. 

From a warré purist point of view, putting an empty box on top disturbs the natural make up of the hive, but the way I see it there are circumstances where it's better to put a box on top.


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## Solarbeez

In my other Warre, I just put a swarm into a three box hive about 10 days ago. Originally it was supposed to be two boxes, but when I was dumping the swarm into the top of the two boxes, I used an empty Warre box to keep the bees from spilling over the side. I decided just to add bars to that box, so now they are building from box #3 downward. Incidentally, I provided ladders for all three boxes. The bees are producing gobs of comb in the top box and they have already started building downward into the middle box. I guess it works both ways.


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## BeekeepingIsGood

Swarms can build like crazy. If you keep your combs movable, you can always just move a comb or two up or down to inspire them the move. If you have enough bees to keep the brood warm, and a nectar flow to support comb building, nothing will get them to move faster than a comb full of brood in a new box.


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