# You don't know til you look



## GregB

AR1 said:


> ....I also spotted a varroa mite, placed right on the bee's back. I looked for others but didn't spot any, but it's a bad sign when you see them like that....
> 
> ........... A few bees had malformed wings......


So, AR, as suspected the next winter will be worse for you.
This past winter was a lucky one.
Time to make some decisions about what your goals and the strategies are.


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## AR1

GregV said:


> So, AR, as suspected the next winter will be worse for you.
> This past winter was a lucky one.
> Time to make some decisions about what your goals and the strategies are.


Very likely so. My plan is mostly unchanged. Split like crazy as early as possible and split again if possible. Long brood breaks. 

I'll watch for drone activity and keep an eye on my swarm traps around the yard for scouting activity. I don't like to deep dive in the hives for queen cells, but those signs will be clues that splitting time is here. The big hive will be very soon I suspect. I had planned to use that hive for making some honey this year, but the sight of that mite has leaned me towards removing the queen and giving it a good, long brood break, with that queen (the original queen from last year's swarm trap) used to make expansion queens.

I purchased oxalic acid last year but didn't need it...this year may be very different. Those few with stunted wings were only in one hive, but the way mites travel around if there's a virus in in one hive it'll be in all of them soon. I'm taking some to another location. Maybe tomorrow.


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## GregB

AR, I think for you it would be a good idea to bring in some known TF line to prop up your stock.
A single queen even.
I don't claim to own such stock but we can talk it over come June.


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## honeyhartbees

The deformed wings suggests that tou SHOULD have used the OA kast year.


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## AR1

honeyhartbees said:


> The deformed wings suggests that tou SHOULD have used the OA kast year.


Yes, quite possibly so. However, alcohol tested and found not one mite.


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## crofter

AR1 said:


> Yes, quite possibly so. However, alcohol tested and found not one mite.


When was the alcohol shake done. Just wondering if you could have been inundated late with outside mites. It can take 2 or 3 rounds of brood raised mite free to get rid of pre-existing virus levels.


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## AR1

crofter said:


> When was the alcohol shake done. Just wondering if you could have been inundated late with outside mites. It can take 2 or 3 rounds of brood raised mite free to get rid of pre-existing virus levels.


That's a very real possibility. Also, not every split was alcohol washed, and at this point I have no memory of which was or not. So I really can't claim that that hive was alcohol washed.


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## AR1

Put a medium on top of the big hive. Saw a few bees buzzing the bait hive. 

Placed a swarm trap at my dad's farm. Have not caught one there in 4 years trying. AFAIK no neighbors keep bees, but there are wooded areas scattered all around in every direction. The honeybees I see on the flowers there must be coming in from somewhere...


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## AR1

Finally saw drones flying from the big hive. Also lots of scouts busy with one of the bait hives. They look like my own bees, very dark in color.

I hate to do splits this early since I don't believe there are enough drones flying from other hives. Earliest I have caught swarms here is end of May. My two other hives have no drones yet. Keep an eye on them. If the big hive did swarm there is a good chance they'll go to my own trap so nothing lost.


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## Saltybee

Go three high now rather than splitting now. Screw a couple of scraps to the top box to put your five frames on as the third box if you don't have the standard box.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I hate to do splits this early since I don't believe there are enough drones flying from other hives. Earliest I have caught swarms here is end of May.


AR1:

I apologize that I am just now seeing your thread- I am sorry to hear about your dead-out, but in my humble opinion 3 out of 4 is not bad- particularly considering that you made some splits to get to 4 last year.

While I cannot presume to speak about your local conditions, I know that 'swarm season' started a full three weeks earlier here than it did last year, so depending on what you are seeing this may portend eminent swarms in your area over the next week or so.

I am interested in continuing to read about your progress, so please do keep us posted.

Best of luck to you with your trapping efforts- and the idea to have a remote yard or two makes good sense to me...


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## AR1

Thanks Litsinger. Agree, 3/4 is fine. 2 were nucs, one a single ten deep, so I'm happy. 

I looked again in the weaker hive and found little brood other than drone, and a single queen cup, open with a larvae in it. That hive has dwindled just since I last looked. Did not see the queen. 
I grabbed a frame full of capped and open brood and stuck it in with the hanging bees. Hope it helps.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I grabbed a frame full of capped and open brood and stuck it in with the hanging bees. Hope it helps.


I hope so too. I always struggle knowing whether a hive is too far gone, and what resources best serve their needs if I decide they're worth intervention. 

Playing a little armchair quarterback, I might have been tempted to dump the nurse bees in without the brood frame given how early it is in the season (in your locale), but you may have made exactly the best move...

Any swarm reports from up in your area yet? I suppose the next week or so will be slow with this cold front moving through.


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## AR1

Painting the top of my very first swarm trap I ever made, that caught my very first swarm. As I was painting it a bee went in the front door! My bait hive a few feet away is also getting a little attention the last few days. Lots of drones and heaps of capped drone comb. Getting close to swarm season in my back yard.

I did a walk-away split. Took one of two deeps and set it up 50 feet away with grass stuffed in the entrance. Took them about an hour to make a hole and start coming out. Fortunately it was grey and rainy so I suspect not many bees returned to the mother hive. Maybe some of the foragers will reorient to the new location, maybe not. 

Did not find the queen so I won't know for a while where she is, but lots of brood in both boxes. Hopefully get some nice queen cells and can make some splits.

No signs of wrinkled wings in any of the 3 (now 4) hives. I need to cut out some of the drone comb and take a look for mites.


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## AR1

Bees were pissy today, probably because I messed with them yesterday splitting the hive. I was putting in the garden, a few feet from the hive and they buzzed my pretty hard, one sting. That's very unusual for these bees.

Planted lettuce, rocket, zucchini, bitter melon, onions, parsley, sunflowers, tobacco and several types of wildflowers.
Did a booboo. I had two containers of saved seeds and mixed them. They looked identical and I thought both were cantaloupe. Only then I saw the label on one said cucumber. So I'll plant lots of them and hope I get at least some of both!


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Did a booboo. I had two containers of saved seeds and mixed them. They looked identical and I thought both were cantaloupe. Only then I saw the label on one said cucumber. So I'll plant lots of them and hope I get at least some of both!


That's one way of adding a little excitement to gardening. Glad to read that your hives are off and running and strong enough to start splits.

Best of luck to you this year.

Russ


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## AR1

The split last week appears successful. One split is full of eggs, the other has queen cells. Spotted two open queen cells, but the bees were clustering so thickly there may have been a few more. 

Another hive, that had been broodless and was given a frame of brood, now has a few queen cells, so it may be saved.

The fourth, a 5-frame, I saw the queen and lots of eggs. Pretty brown with no stripes. It isn't a strong hive though, with only three frames covered in bees, and not thickly. I suppose it has had trouble covering enough brood with workers so is building slowly. Next spring I will leave the insulated top on another month. 

Cut out some drone comb. Found one mite in maybe a dozen drone larvae checked. No other signs of disease in any of the hives. A few small beetles which were not SHBs!


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## Litsinger

AR1:

Glad to read that you had a successful split and have hopefully been able to salvage the weak hive.

I understand that you are planning to make more increase this year via splitting? When will you look to make your next round of divides?


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## AR1

Wonder if I am not seeing an insecticide kill. Lots of bees outside near the hive resting on plants, looking dopey. Some dead. It's the season for my lawn care neighbors to be out killing things. Farms not far away too. Bad timing, since this hive is between queens.

The other hives look Okay.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Wonder if I am not seeing an insecticide kill. Lots of bees outside near the hive resting on plants, looking dopey. Some dead. It's the season for my lawn care neighbors to be out killing things. Farms not far away too. Bad timing, since this hive is between queens.
> 
> The other hives look Okay.


Indeed, many idiots will do their chem treatments of the ornamental plants just about now.
For example, look at this - https://www.amazon.com/Compare-N-Save-Systemic-Shrub-Insect-Drench/dp/B00ARKS5QO
If this is applied to a blooming or pre-blooming ornamental tree - the pollinators will get the hit.


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## AR1

It looked like maybe a hundred bees crawling about, clumped together trying to groom each other. Pretty dopey as I said, but still perfectly capable of stinging! Not many dead ones, yet. 

I cleaned all the old frames and boxes out of my garage. Lots of bees scouting. I suspect looking to swarm, as there are also quite a few in and out of the traps in my yard. I hauled all the boxes out beside the house and have them set up as a giant bait hive, with lots of size options for them to choose from. They immediately started scouting that too, and a lot fewer in the garage.

No idea which hive is planning to swarm. The biggest, most populated has no queen right now, and plenty of space. The others also are not overpopulated. In the middle of a school project right now so no time to do a deep dive or a split. Since they seem to like my bait hives I'll just leave them alone the next few days. Hopefully they will either swarm to my bait hive or not swarm at all until next week when I have more time. Not ideal.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Hopefully they will either swarm to my bait hive or not swarm at all until next week when I have more time. Not ideal.


I'm pulling for you- hopefully they take you up on the swarm trap buffet. Maybe this possible pesticide problem you are experiencing turns out to be sub-lethal?


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## Trin

Have you considered swapping hive locations. Later in the day, with a weak hive or split, move it to the position of the strong hive and the strong to the weak hive location. This would add a fair amount of field bees to the weak hive.

Also with the math of "found one mite in a dozen drone brood cappings" means you probably do have a mite load of +5 to +8-9 per 100 bees. (Taking into account that varroa prefer drone brood.) I would treat asap. Checking a dozen cells is kind of thin knowledge. If you don't want to do an alcohol wash then at least do a sugar roll. Dopey behavior is probably either pesticide poisoning or virus related. Considering the deformed wing and presence of varroa I would at least treat for varroa that pass on viruses to bees. I lost all 7 hives last winter to varroa. I wasn't doing the management, leaving it to others who lacked experience. Won't make that mistake again. Some of the hives were very strong. Those are the hives that often collapse first because of varroa. Drones will crash any home they want. Moving between hives and apiaries. How come the male species always gets blamed for home wrecking?


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## AR1

Trin said:


> Have you considered swapping hive locations. Later in the day, with a weak hive or split, move it to the position of the strong hive and the strong to the weak hive location. This would add a fair amount of field bees to the weak hive.
> 
> Also with the math of "found one mite in a dozen drone brood cappings" means you probably do have a mite load of +5 to +8-9 per 100 bees. (Taking into account that varroa prefer drone brood.) I would treat asap. Checking a dozen cells is kind of thin knowledge. If you don't want to do an alcohol wash then at least do a sugar roll. Dopey behavior is probably either pesticide poisoning or virus related. Considering the deformed wing and presence of varroa I would at least treat for varroa that pass on viruses to bees. I lost all 7 hives last winter to varroa. I wasn't doing the management, leaving it to others who lacked experience. Won't make that mistake again. Some of the hives were very strong. Those are the hives that often collapse first because of varroa. Drones will crash any home they want. Moving between hives and apiaries. How come the male species always gets blamed for home wrecking?


Thanks Trin. All good points. Fortunately I have not seen any wing problems since that one time. Yes, I do need to do a closer check for mites. I did alcohol washes last year, and plan to again this. What I should have done is cut all that drone brood off rather than just a chunk.

Have not seen a repeat of the dopey behavior or any more bees out on the ground. The hive appears very active otherwise. Perhaps a point source like a fruit tree that had been sprayed, and only a number of bees got caught.

I do plan on doing a rearrangement of box placement this week, so the weaker hives should benefit.


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## AR1

Had a decision to make. Take an afternoon nap (prior to doing my night shift job) or play with the bees. Decided to play with the bees. It was fun, but I was dragging by end of shift! I often go 24 hours without sleep and it usually isn't a big deal, but last night was a long one. We were so busy I didn't even have time to make a pot of coffee, so that was bad!! I got to work and was immediately told 'you're the boss tonight'. I am somewhat unfamiliar with the paperwork involved as this is not normally my job. Fortunately very good staff, who require very minimal direction. 

Anyway, I took the hive I had split which had made some capped queen cells and split it into two 5-frame deep nucs, placed them side-by-side near where the hive had been. I figured the bees would sort themselves out into nearly equal numbers and it appears so. Both entrances very active.

That hive was split on the 13th of May, so the queens should be hatching around the 29th or so. 

Now to decide what to do with the split that got the queen. It has really bulked up numbers since it had a lot of capped brood when split, and the queen appears to be laying a lot so numbers should keep going up. I put a medium on top of the deep they were in to give them something to do while I think about it. I'll probably split it again fairly soon, but am also thinking I want to keep it intact for a while since I may be needing frames of brood if any of the nucs needs a boost, or if one of the new nucs fails to get a new queen. 

The garden is doing well. I 'plant' most of my garden using the broadcast method. Take handfuls of seeds and throw them all over then lightly scratch the surface with a rake. It always works great, but I never know where things will grow. The lettuce seed heads I saved last fall I just shook out all over the place, and now I have what looks like ten thousand baby lettuce coming up. The tobacco multiple tens of thousands! In a space of 20 by 20 feet. On top of that lots of wild flower seeds, parsley, sunflowers, etc. Plus volunteer tomatoes coming up from last year. Lots of thinning to do in a few weeks. Treat the veggies like weeds and they actually can outcompete most of the weeds! I do plant the stuff my wife wants around the edges in nice rows. She does NOT like my gardening techniques. Looks messy.


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## AR1

Since the split yesterday, no scouts into the bait hives. So probably the queenless hive with the queen cells was doing the scouting. The nucs are full of bees, so if they requeen properly then swarm odds go up quickly. None of the others look likely to swarm soon.

I keep hoping for a swarm from outside my yard, but no scouts at all.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Had a decision to make. Take an afternoon nap (prior to doing my night shift job) or play with the bees. Decided to play with the bees.


Been up against this decision before too- seems like the bees win out more often than not...

Glad to read that your splits are doing well and the issue of the dopey bees seems to have cleared.

Hopefully you get some swarm trap action soon- good luck.

Russ


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Been up against this decision before too- seems like the bees win out more often than not...
> 
> Glad to read that your splits are doing well and the issue of the dopey bees seems to have cleared.
> 
> Hopefully you get some swarm trap action soon- good luck.
> 
> Russ


I keep reading about swarms all around me, most recently, posted here on Beesource, in Chicago which is directly east of me, and GregV has seen swarms 90 miles NORTH of me. I feel sad and neglected and rejected...

I need to call my brother. His house has a hole in the siding that has had bees most years for the past 20 years. Swarm trap on his porch since February.


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## Litsinger

Hopefully your brother's place yields a good warm or two.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> .....and GregV has seen swarms 90 miles NORTH of me. I feel sad and neglected and rejected....


And caught.


But none by the traps yet, the last I checked.

Fingers crossed for you, AR.
The season is still young.


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## AR1

So apparently all it required was a little self-pity and whining. Back yard bees swarmed just now, pics to follow. Surprised that the swarm issued from the nuc I split just two days ago! Is there a queen? A virgin? My delightful daughter is home for the week and took pics. Got her right up on the stepladder too. 

I was sitting at my upstairs desk, avoiding working on a paper I'm writing for a class when I saw bees swirling. No way, I thought, but I went out and got gear ready. The whole process took maybe 20 minutes from first notice to box. 

They landed in the same little crab apple tree that a swarm landed in last summer, from the same hive location. I've been considering cutting that tree out. It just won another year of life!


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> .......They landed in the same little crab apple tree that a swarm landed in last summer, from the same hive location. I've been considering cutting that tree out. It just won another year of life!


Keep that darn tree!
LOL

PS: I crossed the fingers for you - worked.


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## AR1

GregV said:


> PS: I crossed the fingers for you - worked.


Saved by the cross, again.

That crab apple is a volunteer, from seeds from our backyard apple. Occasionally a volunteer will have good apples, so my plan was to leave it until it made apples and decide then whether to keep it or cut it. There are a bunch more that will probably flower next year. Unfortunately I don't need a tree right where this one is, but as you say, it's a keeper. Maybe just trim it back.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Saved by the cross, again.
> 
> That crab apple is a volunteer, from seeds from our backyard apple. Occasionally a volunteer will have good apples, so my plan was to leave it until it made apples and decide then whether to keep it or cut it. There are a bunch more that will probably flower next year. Unfortunately I don't need a tree right where this one is, but as you say, it's a keeper. Maybe just trim it back.


Graft onto that apple tree.
Easy to do.
Then you have both - good apples and the swarm catcher, all in one.


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## Trin

So your plan is to have a trap near your hives to catch your own swarms? I can see the practicality of that. I try to keep them from swarming. Trying the OSBN management this year.

I've only seen 2 swarms, both on the same day, in 25 years, near my house. Hiving those bees is what got me started. I heard of and saw several other swarms that year, but it seems fairly rare year to year. 

I mention it around that I will come and get swarms. 

I tried 5 swarm traps last year with no success. Last year the folks managing our hives had 3-4 swarms from them and caught them all. The previous year we lost one swarm from our best hive. It was a half filled long hive so it caught me by surprise. I thought that with lots of space the bees wouldn't be inclined to swarm.


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## AR1

I am in suburbia, so keeping a few bait hives just seems like a good thing to do to keep my neighbors from being pestered by swarms. So far I have had two, caught both. Also one attempted swarm failed when the queen couldn't fly due to damaged wings. I found her next to the hive but lost her before I could get her back.


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## AR1




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## AR1

Been a long time since I posted pics. I had forgotten how annoying a process it is.


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## AR1

Trin said:


> Also with the math of "found one mite in a dozen drone brood cappings" means you probably do have a mite load of +5 to +8-9 per 100 bees. (Taking into account that varroa prefer drone brood.)


Went back in that hive and sliced off a whole strip of drone comb, from the bottom of a medium frame I put in a deep for that purpose. Not one mite found, so happy about that. There are two of those frames, but the queen was walking on the second one so rather than mess with her I put it back in. Maybe another day.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Been a long time since I posted pics. I had forgotten how annoying a process it is.


Tip: 
- reduce the resolution prior to attaching;
- I simply opening the image in the Paint (if on Windows) reduce the size by *50%* - save;
- the reduced image will attach to BS correctly.


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## Trin

Had a panicked son tell me today that 100's of bees were in my woodworking shop. I did have a stack of boxes with deeps and shallow comb frames near the inside door to the shop. The bees were crawling all over the fluorescent lights. Opened a window and turned off the lights. I then moved the frames outside and let the bees have at them. 

So I was puzzled to see quite a few bees orienting to a stack of lumber in the main shop. Underneath was a forgotten swarm trap with lots of bees going in and out. Now I am wondering, are they attracted by the lure and comb frame inside or.....do I have a hive preparing to swarm. ?? Going to rain soon so maybe tomorrow I will recheck the hives. I did a simple box bottom check on the strong hive after finding nothing queen cup wise in the upper brood box with 1-1/2 frames needing some comb drawn. Probably should have pulled the bottom frames as well. Added 2 honey supers today to give them something to do. Added second brood deep to the other hive. Hived these bees April 24th.

I'm beginning to see that my Winter months will be spent on equipment builds.


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## AR1

Trin said:


> .
> 
> I'm beginning to see that my Winter months will be spent on equipment builds.


A good problem to have. 

Sounds like a swarm coming. Move that box outside, or leave it there with the shop door open. Once the swarm is inside move it somewhere.


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## AR1

To sum it up:
4 of 4 hives survived winter, 1 two deep, 3 nucs. One nuc then died in April. 75% survival. 
Two deep was split in two.
The queenless split made two queen cells and was then split into two nucs. One of those nucs swarmed 2 days later.
A nuc that survived winter is now (apparently) laying worker. I have decided to leave it alone and let it run dry. Eventually when it is dead I will use the nice clean frames with stores as resources for more nucs. 

So:
Queenright confirmed=2
One hive is a ten-deep with a medium on top and a very active queen.
One nuc is verified to have a laying queen.

Not queenright or not confirmed=4
Two nucs are recent splits and do not have laying queens yet (and may not have queens at all).
One nuc is a swarm from a nuc. No queen verified but it acts as if a queen is present. Probably a virgin.
One nuc is probably laying worker.

No large hives.


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## Saltybee

Saltybee said:


> Go three high now rather than splitting now. Screw a couple of scraps to the top box to put your five frames on as the third box if you don't have the standard box.


You can make queens early, but that is just impatience. My long distance guess is the failed nucs were late or very early splits.
Make use of your LW bees. Place inside or shake a couple of the frames onto your strong hive, a couple of days later the rest of the frames and remove the box.

Do a Ray Marler split. Take the queen away to a nuc for a day or two and then put her back below an excluder with the QCs above..


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## JWPalmer

I think Salybee's advice to shake them INTO a strong hive is the way to go. Doing a normal shakeout while you have nucs with virgin queens could result in the laying workers being accepted into those nucs IMO.


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## Saltybee

JW 
Thank you for filling out my post. Much clearer, though I meant at the door.


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## AR1

Aaaaaand, two more swarms today at 3 PM. I was asleep, tonight being a work night. Wife wakes me up, swarm in the peach tree. No, she says 2 swarms in the peach tree. Sure enough there were, one small. Shook one and brushed the other into boxes. Appears to have got the queens. More virgins? Anyway, from 3 overwintered to now 8.


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## AR1

Not sure I understand the advice to shake a laying worker hive into a good hive. Seems like unnecessary risk of getting a dead queen. If I just leave them alone they will eventually dwindle to nothing while maintaining a nuc full of good comb and even storing some honey and pollen. It isn't enough good bees to help a strong colony and too many bad bees to risk putting in a weak colony.


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## Saltybee

AR1 said:


> It isn't enough good bees to help a strong colony and too many bad bees to risk putting in a weak colony.


Hence the advice to not put them into a weak colony.


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## JWPalmer

I did my very first shake out yesterday. In the past, I have done as you were suggesting, just let them die out. And, I have let several dozen die out in the past. Now I needed the equipment (nucs) and shook them out out in front of another hive that was very strong. Helped maybe that it was the next hive over. Bees were clustered on the hive stand for about an hour but they had it all sorted out by the time I was done working in the beeyard.


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## AR1

JWPalmer said:


> I did my very first shake out yesterday. In the past, I have done as you were suggesting, just let them die out. And, I have let several dozen die out in the past. Now I needed the equipment (nucs) and shook them out out in front of another hive that was very strong. Helped maybe that it was the next hive over. Bees were clustered on the hive stand for about an hour but they had it all sorted out by the time I was done working in the beeyard.


The laying workers are not foragers, so they shouldn't easily return to the original hive location. I wonder if simply moving the hive a distance away and putting a bait hive to collect the foragers at the original location wouldn't work to separate the sheep from the goats.


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## JWPalmer

AR1 said:


> The laying workers are not foragers, so they shouldn't easily return to the original hive location.


 I do not know that to be true or not. Do you have anything to support it?


> I wonder if simply moving the hive a distance away and putting a bait hive to collect the foragers at the original location wouldn't work to separate the sheep from the goats.


 Sounds like it would work, but instead of a bait hive, just move the target hive to the old location. If one were doing a queenright split where the foragers were going to fly back to the parent hive, this might be a good way of obtaining a foraging workforce quickly. Time for a little experiment.


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## AR1

JWPalmer said:


> I do not know that to be true or not. Do you have anything to support it? Sounds like it would work, but instead of a bait hive, just move the target hive to the old location. If one were doing a queenright split where the foragers were going to fly back to the parent hive, this might be a good way of obtaining a foraging workforce quickly. Time for a little experiment.


No evidence, just speculation. I doubt a bee would both lay eggs and forage, but I don't know. My problem is I have nowhere to dump bees that wouldn't annoy my suburban neighbors. So, if the layers don't forage, just moving the layer hive should force the bees to separate. A big if and should in there, I'll admit. I think that is worth a try, and worth spending a frame of eggs.


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## JWPalmer

Yeah, I still have a hive that is either drone layer or laying worker. Have not see a queen so I suspect LW. Will be doing summer nucs soon and will give the swapped hive thing a try.


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## Saltybee

It is not the foragers that have the highest value. There are plenty of normal worker bees in the mix of LWs. Let alone honey, comb and boxes.
If you do not want to shake remove a couple of frames of brood and place them with bees in another hive. A frame in each outer position will cause not problem at all. Repeat after a day or two. Do a flyback split with only brood frames and nurse bees from a QR hive left in place is an option. Cuts your problem in half with no effort other than lugging a hive.

The window screen trick between hives just placing the LW over another works. Inner cover or empty spacers are a twist that may make sense depending upon relative strength of the hives.

All methods of a quiet shakeout.


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## AR1

https://archive.org/search.php?query=honeybee&page=4


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## AR1

Found a queen in one split, so happy. Put a frame of brood in another that didn't appear to have a queen, it was from a tiny afterswarm.


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## Litsinger

Sounds like you are off and running now, AR1. Best of success in your continued expansion efforts.


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Sounds like you are off and running now, AR1. Best of success in your continued expansion efforts.


It's been a good year so far. No real complaints. I'd be out there playing with the bees now but my neighbor is having a pool party. I'm careful not to pop tops if anyone is in sight or hearing.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I'm careful not to pop tops if anyone is in sight or hearing.


Makes good sense to me- flying under the radar has always served me well.


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Makes good sense to me- flying under the radar has always served me well.


This is the neighbor with three yappy dogs that charge the fence every time we go in the back yard. In the past my wife has 'joked' about me working the bees when the dogs are out...

In other news, I got home from work and found my live trap for chipmunks had caught another, this is # 6 this year. They destroy the strawberries so I trap them and release them at the farm. Cute little buggers but I love my strawberries. I wonder if they survive at the farm. Pretty vulnerable without holes to dive in, and dad's cats are good hunters.

Dug into my new nucs this morning and was very happy to find 4 of 5 have queens. One I just saw eggs and a tiny bit of capped brood, so she's in there somewhere. Those were small to very small swarms, so I wasn't confident they even had virgins in them, but they were smarter than me. 

The 5th nuc appears queenless, but completely packed with bees, and the frame of brood I gave them is mostly hatched out, with no queen cells. I may take a frame out and replace it with another frame of brood, or on second thought do a newspaper combine with one of the other nucs. That would give me one decent-sized hive rather than having 2 weak nucs. 

It's funny how each hive has it's own personality. I split a hive this spring into two nucs and they are sitting side by side. One half I can open and remove frames and do a complete inspection without smoke. They barely buzz me. It's twin sister is much more aggressive. Even with smoke, lots or a little, They are all over my hands and arms, and diving my face. I did a no-smoke inspection today and it didn't go well. I am sure Texas beekeepers would laugh at me for considering this a 'hot' hive, but compared to my others, it is.

Now that I know they have queens, it is time to move one or two of the new nucs to my dad's farm.


----------



## LAlldredge

AR1 said:


> I did a no-smoke inspection today and it didn't go well. I am sure Texas beekeepers would laugh at me for considering this a 'hot' hive, but compared to my others, it is.
> 
> Now that I know they have queens, it is time to move one or two of the new nucs to my dad's farm.


Here's an idea you might want to try- using flour sack cloths (purchased in the kitchen area) as cover cloths. I saw this demonstrated by Scott Hendricks on YouTube who uses cover cloths all the time. He uses a different material then I do but the use is the same. I cover all but the area I'm inspecting (like a surgeon doing surgery). And boxes set aside have a cloth over the top so they aren't exposed to the light and predation. The effect is like using smoke without using smoke. It keeps the bees down in the box and calm. They aren't worried about being exposed. I need to use a little smoke on that hive even still but the mood of that hive is not as intimidating to me anymore. Frames are set aside in a quiet box painted black on the inside. Everyone is calmer, most importantly the beekeeper.


----------



## AR1

LAlldredge said:


> Here's an idea you might want to try- using flour sack cloths (purchased in the kitchen area) as cover cloths... Everyone is calmer, most importantly the beekeeper.


I tried that once and it seemed to work. Just have not gotten around to doing it regularly. I used an old tee-shirt.
The pulled frames go into a nuc box next to the hive on the ground. They never cause problems. It's the actual hive I am working that gets feisty.


----------



## AR1

So yesterday I found what I 'thought' was a queenless nuc. I had given them a frame of brood a while back and it appeared it didn't take. 

I was looking in the nuc again today and I don't know what I was doing yesterday, maybe I missed a frame, but there are six nice capped queen cells in that nuc, all on the lower edge of one frame. What to do with 6 cells? I don't have enough bees in the other hives to do another split right now. I suppose I could try to put in one or two in the laying worker hive, but everything I have heard says that's probably fruitless.

My 'big' hive has a couple of uncapped queen cells too. I was planning to do lots of splits this year, but this is getting ridiculous.


----------



## JWPalmer

AR1, I have had some success with placing a frame of brood with a capped queen cell into a LW hive and having it take on the first round. You could even place the cell on a frame donated by another hive. What do you have to lose?


----------



## AR1

JWPalmer said:


> AR1, I have had some success with placing a frame of brood with a capped queen cell into a LW hive and having it take on the first round. You could even place the cell on a frame donated by another hive. What do you have to lose?


Nothing really, as you say. If the weather is nice tomorrow I may give it a try. The cells are attached to plastic foundation, not hanging from the bottom so I'll have to be careful. Maybe use a razor blade.


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## AR1

Mr Palmer I went ahead and tried it. In fact on close count there were TEN queen cells, several quite small. I cut out three, two successfully, and placed them in a frame from a different hive that also had some eggs and young brood. Took that and another frame full of bees and put them in the laying worker hive, after heavy smoke.

Took a young nuc verified queen-right and put it at my dad's farm. Have gotten good honey crops from there in past years. Will probably put another nuc there in a few days. 

Also took a double nuc and placed the frames in a ten-deep with a medium on top. They were filling the nucs nicely and lots of capped brood so should occupy the medium without much trouble.

I spent the winter making nuc boxes, and now I am running out of frames.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I spent the winter making nuc boxes, and now I am running out of frames.


Good problem to have- way to go, AR1.

Russ


----------



## AR1

Bought a box of medium frames 2 days ago. Good thing I did. I got home from work this morning and went to bed. At 2 O'clock PM my wife woke me up, the bees are swarming. By the time I got out there it was too late to figure out which hive swarmed but there are only two real possibilities. I think it was the same queen that came to me in a swarm last spring. I saw an open, occupied queen cell last time I looked in that hive, and I had not looked at all the frames so there could have been some more mature cells.

They perched about 5 inches off the ground at the base of a little apple tree. I tucked a box under them and shook them in. There they are now. So I am down to about a dozen unused frames now, counting what's left in my swarm traps.

I am giving a nuc to a boy this week, son of a co-worker, who has had bees since last year. He lost his bees this winter and bought some more this spring. His bees swarmed last week too, and he lost the swarm. Not sure what he has left. He seems enthusiastic. Nice to encourage enthusiasm.

This year roundup:
A. 4 overwintered. One then died in April. 3 hives.
B. One went laying worker. Gave it 2 queen cells and a frame of brood last week. One queen cell looks good as of today. Hope they don't kill her.
C. Split one and the splits swarmed and were caught, and today the main hive swarmed, so now at 7 from one. One of these is at dad's farm and one is going as a gift.
D. One overwintered nuc is now in a ten-deep with a medium on top. Appears to be doing well.

Total: 9 hives, from 4 that overwintered. 6 of these are in nucs. It's crazy. No way I expected the May splits/swarms to multiply like this.

I need to get these inspected, so I can legally sell a nuc and afford to buy frames! I would sell one if someone requested, but I won't go looking for buyers without the inspection.


----------



## AR1

Got home from work this morning and met two high school boys there to pick up a nuc. Seem like good kids, a co-worker's boys. Put a bottom on the nuc and wrapped it with a rubber strap to hold it together and popped it in their trunk. Steel wool in the entrances, but there were bees escaping out the edges. Guessing the trunk was full of mad bees when they got home. 

This nuc was from a split that swarmed. Verified a laying queen and it is filled with bees. Hope they have fun with it.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Guessing the trunk was full of mad bees when they got home.


That would be humorous to watch unfold... On a serious note, this was a good gesture. Nice to see your generosity.

Russ


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> That would be humorous to watch unfold... On a serious note, this was a good gesture. Nice to see your generosity.
> 
> Russ


I got my bees for free, no more than the cost of the boxes and frames they came in, from a relative. Just passing along a little. This kid got bees and a cheap 5-frame nuc from me, and I will get 5 frames back from his mom. I gave one up last year and will probably continue to do so as my population admits.


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## AR1

Hadn't had time last week to peek in any hives, but yesterday afternoon I finally got into a few.

The bad: I had one overwintered nuc go laying worker this spring. Mr. Palmer convinced me to try adding a queen cell, and it worked! Nice pattern of capped brood on one frame. However...There was one short frame, to encourage the bees to build drone comb and it had a nice long section of nearly mature drones. I cut it out and dug out a few dozen nearly hatched drones. About half had mites, many of them had multiple mites. Many of the mite-infested had undeveloped wings. I have not seen any worker bees with bad wings since I saw two early in the spring. So, in the morning today I will be going back in and scouring that hive for drone cells. Gonna clean out every drone cell. I feel sorry for the new, young queen I stuck in that infected hive. Time to make up some OA. Not magic mite-resistant bees :-(

In better news, the big swarm I got (from my own hive) has a laying queen and they are building comb like crazy. Crazy comb that is. Happy you are working, but hey gals, those frames are there for a reason! The hive they came out of has 6 capped queen cells, on several frames. I took one frame with a QC and a frame with lots of capped brood and put it into a nuc. Compressed the original hive back to a single deep. It has lots of capped brood so should repopulate quickly. Very few drone cells in this hive, and it's getting a nice laying break so, hopefully low mites.

Next up, to really dig into all the nucs and make sure they have queens. Also go into every hive and cut out drone comb and check for mites. Time to do some alcohol washes too. That laying worker hive is a wake-up call.

So far nearly everything is going to plan. Keep the hives small to encourage reproduction and split for increase. A couple of the nucs look ready for expansion into a 10-deep. I was hoping to have one big hive for honey, but unless the fall is really good it probably won't be much.


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## AR1

I went into that hive and pulled two frames completely out. They were spotted throughout with drones laid in worker comb. What a sorry lot, never saw the like. Small, even the ones starting to chew their way out. Some had more than one drone trying to occupy the same cell. Some appeared to be facing down into the cell! Some, obviously very immature were trying to chew out, I suppose because the cells were too small, and I think maybe the worker bees were trying to remove them.

There was one drone cell in the frame laid by the new queen. Killed that one too. Then I replaced the drone-filled frames with two clean frames and tossed the drone frames in the grass for the ants to clean up. Eventually I'll use them, maybe spray bleach on them first though.

Huge difference between the drones laid in worker cells and those laid in actual drone cells. 

The whole process, from starting the smoker to scraping out the drone larvae took maybe 30 minutes. I think a person with just a few hives might be able to control varroa just by completely, 100% removing all drone brood.

I re-hived the whole thing in a clean box with a narrow entrance. I read that smoke stuns varroa and makes them fall to the floor. So I figure it couldn't hurt to give the bees a new, varroa-free box too.

Right now I have no good resource hive. Only one is big enough to steal any brood at all, and that one not much. Big drawback of my plan this year.

Too sleepy to do any more work, off to bed soon.


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## AR1

Thinking about that worker laying hive. Yes, it looks like I 'saved' it by adding a queen cell. But at what cost? The hive is badly infested with mites and has wrinkled wing virus. Will the new queen be able to correct the problems? I think that if I were a bigger operation, I'd be better to just kill the hive. Not spread mites and virus to my other hives. 

It was worth it to learn how to correct laying worker, and fun to experiment. Once. Why was the hive laying worker? The queen died. It has disease and parasites. Back in Ag college the professor told us that if one plant is sick, it's better to rouge it out and burn it than to try to save it. If a cow has tuberculosis they don't try to cure it, they just kill it to get it out of the population and not infect other cows. Did this hive just have bad luck, a bad beekeeper, or was it genetically inferior stock? If it's just genetics, the new queen may be all it needs.

I had hives that were badly mite and virus infested in the past. They died in spite of treatment, and they dragged down my healthy hives too and those hives died later, in spite of treatment. I would have been better off isolating or killing those bad hives rather than trying to save them.

This hive may do well, with its new, young queen and no drone brood to breed huge mite populations in. I will take it tomorrow and put it at the farm, far away from my other hives. It will live or die there without dragging down other hives. I'll keep on removing all drone brood for another few cycles. But I don't think I will attempt to rescue another LW hive unless it's a split that failed to requeen, so not disease or mites.


----------



## AR1

Thinking about 'treatment-free' beekeeping and what it means. My goal is TF, but I have treated in the past and will do so again. I have used Apivar and will probably use OA this year.

But what is a TF apiary? Is it an apiary where 100% of the hives are TF (however you define TF)? Or could it be an apiary where most of the hives are TF but a few of the hives are treated? 

My reason for thinking about this is that, so far this year I am TF except for drone culling. But, I find myself without any big, strong, industrious hives either to make honey or to use as resource hives for bolstering my nucs.

Between splits and swarms this year I have gone from 2 hives that wintered with strong queens to 9 hives. None large. All but one appear healthy and active and are growing. But there is no hive strong enough to supply more than a few frames of brood in case of need. My TF style is small hives, frequent splits and long brood breaks and drone-culling. No magic bees that magically remain mite-free because they are so genetically superior. The drawbacks are poor honey production and perpetually smaller, weaker hives, always trying to rebuild. 

So, not being religious about TF, I wonder if I shouldn't experiment with one or two hives. Isolate them, treat the heck out of them, and use them as resources for building my apiary numbers. TF apiaries crash every few years. Some people have better luck or better systems or are better beekeepers and their TF apiaries don't crash, but reading on this forum for several years, it appears that most TF apiaries crash every 2-3-4 years. It happened to me when I only had a few hives. The susceptible bees drag down the good bees and they all die the next fall or winter.

Wondering what other TF people think about this idea? Anyone tried it? Practical objections? Philosophical objections?


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## AR1

Checked my last two nucs. One I wasn't 100% sure had a queen, but it does, brown with black tail, and has lots of capped brood. There were a few drone cells and I killed them. Moved the hive into a 10-deep so they can expand when all that brood hatches. Narrow entrance.

The second one is a younger nuc. Seems to have a good queen, lots of brood. Has not filled the frames yet with comb so still room to grow. Moved it about ten feet onto a platform to make it easier to handle. It was on a pallet on the ground before. Killed a dozen drone cells. Saw one mite, on the comb, it ducked into an empty cell. Otherwise the bees look very healthy. 

So, two of 9 hives are queenless right now but both have a bunch of queen cells. 4 are in ten-deeps and the others in 5-nucs.


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## Tigger19687

What kind of platform did you put them on ? 
Just curious


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## AR1

Tigger19687 said:


> What kind of platform did you put them on ?
> Just curious


A low table made of 2X4s I slapped together a few years ago. About 2 feet tall.


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## GregB

I moved my comments under my own topic in the TF area (no need for them in the General forum).

AR, mb you want your thread moved; consider.


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## AR1

Checked out my biggest colony, one deep with a medium. This was an overwintered nuc, and I believe it has not swarmed this year. Piles of capped brood including in the upper box. Looking forward to a surge in bee numbers as this group hatches. No plan to split this one as it is the only full-sized hive I have. In all the brood there was only maybe a dozen drone cells. Killed them. But there was a whole one side of a frame completely drawn out in drone cells, brand new comb, so I wonder what they are planning! With no drones I am hoping there are few mites. I cut a lot of drone comb out of this hive in the Spring. A few queen cups but none with larvae, so no immediate swarm plans.

No signs of mites or other problems. Zero small hive beetles this year for some reason, in any hive. Also very few moths, even in comb left in traps. I saw one in a pile of comb in the garage.

A few days ago I moved two hives. A small nuc went into the location of a nuc stuffed with bees. Not surprisingly, the small nuc is now stuffed with bees. The loser still appears to be Okay with numbers as it is later in the hatching cycle so the lost bees should be replaced soon.

Next step is to check the two queenless hives and see what happened to the queen cells. I'll have to check the calendar to see when to expect laying. Thinking about it, there are actually 3 possibly queenless hives, not two.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> But what is a TF apiary?


AR1:

My apologies for not responding to some of your more recent posts in a more timely fashion- I have been reading your posts but traveling extensively for work has left me little time to sit down at the computer and respond.

For me personally, I have approached my TF experiment having two main guiding principles:

1. I am free to define success and failure in my apiary and also to experiment with any management choice that I feel might help further my goals. Conversely, I am free to let anyone else keep bees the way they see fit and listen and learn from everyone, even if they are going down a different management path than I am.

2. Follow the 'Golden Rule'- If I observe consequences of my management choices that will likely impact my neighbor's operations, I need to take steps to limit the 'collateral damage' of my management. While there are many opinions on what this looks like, for me it means at minimum to prevent wholesale robbing and reserves the right to euthanize colonies which are beyond recovery.

So at least from my perspective, you get to set the agenda for your apiary- and I'll look forward to reading about your results and learning what I can.

All that said, squarepeg gave a great definition of TF several years ago that seems very balanced and reasonable to me:

_"Any post advocating the use of treatments, according to the forum definition of treatment will be considered off topic and shall be moved to another forum or deleted by a moderator, unless it is employed as part of a plan in becoming treatment free."

this allows for the contingency that there may be those who might consider treatments as a stop gap measure to save a colony which has not been able to 'do it on it's own', and prevent the loss of time, money, and a live colony of bees.

tf 'mindset' has been brought up in another thread. to some, this mindset is seen to include being prepared to allow colonies to perish as part of the tf process. i see nothing wrong with this, and i have always felt that all beekeepers should be able to make their own management decisions as they so feel moved to do so, (within the constraints of applicable laws and in a way that doesn't threaten nearby colonies kept by others and/or feral colonies).

what often appears to be the case is that beginning beekeepers have made the decision to go tf without understanding that this may involve losing colonies in what can potentially become a disappointing and expensive process.

it makes perfect sense to me for someone to do whatever is necessary to save a colony in the short term and while attempting to come up with measures that will lead to their bees being able to be kept off treatments, but to the hard core this 'mindset' flys against theirs and they dismiss it.

*bottom line: don't be constrained by this or that definition and make your choices based on what it is you feel is appropriate for you, your circumstances, and your goals.*"_


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## gww

quote from russ


> _*bottom line: don't be constrained by this or that definition and make your choices based on what it is you feel is appropriate for you, your circumstances, and your goals.*"_


x2
I would add, you are the one doing the work and so you get to decide how you want to do it. I am such a copy cat and so I try and look at what every one does and then decide what part of that I am capable and willing to also do. Every one has to deal with their situations. Many time, work schedules, space constraints and starting position and starting knowledge have a big impact. The only thing I really learned first year was several ways to feed a hive. I wanted to learn more but am a slow learner. I read a lot but find it is still a process to put things into practice. Some do this faster then others but in the end actually doing something gets you further then just thinking of things you could do. Take the good with the bad and be proud of where you are and improve if you can. My two cents.

I had a friend give me advice. This friend knows more then me and I do not discount his advice but, and a big but, I am still the one that has to do it all. I am the one that has to purchase stuff if that is what the advice calls for. So in the end, I so value advice given with my best interest in mind and want that advice badly but hope that if I do not listen that it does not shut down the advice or is not taken badly that I don't always follow it. In the end, I do what I do cause I am the one doing it and it is my best for my situation.

So, My opinion, if you are doing stuff, the rest will come sometimes slowly and sometimes fast but it will come. Not doing anything at all gets you no where.
Cheers
gww


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## Litsinger

gww said:


> quote from russ


To give credit where credit is due, this quote is actually from squarepeg... but I think it is a great and balanced approach to TF.


----------



## AR1

Thanks guys. My beekeeping goal is to have fun. Chemical treatments are not fun. Honey is fun. Watching bees flying around is fun. Opening beehives and pulling frames and looking at the bees is fun. Getting stung is not fun. 

I got a real sting today, first this year. I had several light stings through gloves but this one was on my ear. That hurt! Had to have my wife scrape off the stinger. No swelling, and it made me forget my throbbing headache, so that was good! I was done and picking up my gear, took off my hat and veil. Bad idea. 

Pulled a frame of honey, first this year. 

Dug into a nuc looking for a queen and found her! Very happy since this was a split that swarmed out their queen soon after the split. No eggs yet, and they are about out of worker brood. Just some drone brood about ready to hatch. Killed it all. Saw not one mite in the drone brood but wasn't looking very hard. Saw a beetle, maybe a SHB but if so it was the biggest I have ever seen. Killed it.

Funny thing in that nuc, more drones than I have ever seen in one place. One frame, one whole side was nothing but packed assembled drones. They must have had a huge drone hatch recently. This nuc I have left alone much more than any other hive, since I knew it had swarmed out the queen and it had queen cells. I did not trim drone brood on this one earlier since I didn't want to disturb the requeen process.

Got into another queenless hive, post swarm. Queen cells cut open but no visible queen nor new eggs. It's early, so probably no problem. I grabbed a frame of larvae and eggs from another hive and put it in, just in case. Funny, the frame I swapped was from the newly hived swarm from that same hive, so they are all sisters anyway. The swarm is doing great, good queen with lots of brood.


----------



## AR1

Got into two hives and added a frame of brood and bees to each, since there didn't appear to be queens present. 

No signs of DWV in 4 hives I looked in today, but did spot a mite each in the two queenless hives. No new brood so they are all outside on bees, I suppose. Only a little brood left in these hives, so they should be fairly clean of mites by the time they make queens. Very little drone brood, maybe a few I missed squashing. Still, a big jump in numbers from last year, when I literally found zero mites even with alcohol washes. 

8 of 9 hives have either swarmed or been split and have new queens. The sole remainer was a new queen last July and overwintered in a nuc. That one at least needs an alcohol wash and wouldn't miss sacrificing a few hundred bees. With the heavy bearding it would be easy to tap them into a container, but I wonder if bearding bees are representative. I almost pulled that queen into a nuc to get a new hive and give that hive a brood break, but decided to leave it alone and watch how the mite situation plays out. If it looks like building, I'll pull her in late July. Besides, I am short on equipment. Not enough frames. The local Farm & Fleet is all out and hasn't restocked in a few weeks.

A thought. Smoke makes mites fall off the bees. So, if you smoke a hive before extracting bees for an alcohol wash, are you missing a lot of mites?

I don't do bottom board counts, but those of you who do, try smoking half the hives and not smoking the other half and see if there is a huge difference in mite fall. Might be able to remove a source of error.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> AR1:
> 
> My apologies for not responding to some of your more recent posts in a more timely fashion- I have been reading your posts but traveling extensively for work has left me little time to sit down at the computer and respond.
> 
> For me personally, I have approached my TF experiment having two main guiding principles:
> 
> 1. I am free to define success and failure in my apiary and also to experiment with any management choice that I feel might help further my goals. Conversely, I am free to let anyone else keep bees the way they see fit...
> 
> 2. Follow the 'Golden Rule'- If I observe consequences of my management choices that will likely impact my neighbor's operations, I need to take steps to limit the 'collateral damage' of my management...[/B][/U]"[/I]


No apologies necessary! 

Agree with your points. 

These days, advocating freedom is getting dangerous! Can't have people thinking for themselves or they might disagree with me...


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> A thought. Smoke makes mites fall off the bees. So, if you smoke a hive before extracting bees for an alcohol wash, are you missing a lot of mites?


AR1: 

There is actually an interesting discussion going on over on Bee-L right now dealing with this issue- thread is entitled: 

'sensitive Varroa sampling - early detection'

https://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A0=bee-l


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> These days, advocating freedom is getting dangerous! Can't have people thinking for themselves or they might disagree with me...


Unfortunately all too true, AR1...


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> .....A thought. Smoke makes mites fall off the bees. So, if you smoke a hive before extracting bees for an alcohol wash, are you missing a lot of mites?
> 
> I don't do bottom board counts, but those of you who do, try smoking half the hives and not smoking the other half and see if there is a huge difference in mite fall. Might be able to remove a source of error.


I would discriminate the smokes.
I read/watched testimonials where people swear they control their mites by horseradish smoke.
The horseradish smoke just might have some impact.
In fact, it is advised to be very careful with horseradish smoke and not inhale it in any circumstance (appears to be a very strong irritant).
This is only one example.
So it depends on what is in your smoker.

Am going to HiVee for groceries tonight and will pickup a dry horse radish root (I have seen they have it).
Want to experiment with my mite-infested resource hive and smoke it just to see how it might look and feel like.
I need those bees for my mating projects and now thinking I want to destroy all the drone brood before they hatch and might just give them some horseradish smoke too for jollies. This resource unit is pretty much to be sliced and diced in any way I want now that I have it.


----------



## GregB

GregV said:


> I would discriminate the smokes......


BTW, common Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) also deserves a look.


> Tansy is an effective insecticide and is highly toxic to arthropods.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tansy
Administering is simple drying the flowers and then using them in the smoker.
People do it too.
As I was reading about the horseradish, tansy also came up.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> BTW, common Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) also deserves a look.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tansy
> Administering is simple drying the flowers and then using them in the smoker.
> People do it too.
> As I was reading about the horseradish, tansy also came up.


I have a horseradish plant in my garden...but sounds nasty to use, so I'll skip that one.

I use tobacco leaves. It makes a very pleasant-smelling smoke and doesn't seem to hurt the bees. A small number of studies say it causes mite drop, and apparently early in the mite war it was used as a control measure. I imagine that if it really worked well it would still be used. The studies I saw were from Holland and Pakistan and India, and one in SW USA. 

Tobacco is very easy to grow. In fact it is nearly a weed and grows every year in my garden. I just avoid weeding a few and let them grow. Save a few seed heads and scatter them around in the spring. Anyone wants seeds I can mail you some.


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## AR1

Visited the bees at my dad's farm. A small swarm from a nuc this spring. Now up to 5 frames of bees and looks good. As all my bees this year, lots of crazy comb. Don't know what the girls are thinking this year. It's like a redecorating fad around here. Dropped off a small jar of honey for dad. He says it'll be eaten soon so I'll have to pull another frame for him. He's 90 and has always had a large sweet tooth. 

Checked my only trap in the woods. I was busy this spring and got very few traps out. 'Caught' a large ant colony. They were putting their larvae in the cells! I pulled the two frames of comb and knocked out the larvae. Need the frames.


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## AR1

Today I opened a hive that had swarmed and failed to requeen. It got a frame of young brood a while back but has still not requeened. On that frame today I found a patch of drone brood and cut it out and opened each cell. Lots of mites. Some cells had zero, others as many as 5 mites. The worker brood I checked had zero that I saw. I put another frame with young brood in hoping they get the idea and make some queen cells. Time will tell. At any rate this hive will have a much longer than 30 day brood break, very few hatching drones the whole time, so should end up with low mite numbers.

Later this month I plan to pull the queens from the strongest hives and put them in nucs, with the usual frames of brood, honey and pollen. After she has started to lay in the nuc I'll pull the original anchor brood frame and force them to make or clear comb before she can lay again. All of my hives but one have already had one brood break this year. 7 out of 9 have new queens this year. The double brood break worked well for me last year. Hopefully will work again in addition to drone culling. 

I have no confidence that these are magic bees that can survive mites without intervention. The numbers of mites I am seeing in drone brood suggests these are not highly hygienic bees that will find and remove infected brood.


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## AR1

Impulse grabbed me by the throat yesterday. I was looking into my 'biggest' hive and considering adding another medium super between the top super, which has brood, and the bottom deep. I was all set to put that box in between, with a queen excluder, in order to have queen cells made in the top box, as an experiment. If it worked I would then use any queen cells to either make splits or in queenless hives.

But, the whole plan went out the window when I spotted the queen on a frame of brood in the top box. I put it in a nuc with a frame of honey and some drawn comb and a lot of bees. I had been debating with myself what to do with that hive and now it's done, almost without thought. Ah, well.

The bottom box should produce a nice crop of queen cells, after all.

Now here is a question. If you have 2 hives side by side, very close together, and one hive has a queen and the other is queenless, will the queenright hive draw bees into it from the queenless hive?


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## Saltybee

ill the queenright hive draw bees into it from the queenless hive? almost always


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> .....Now here is a question. If you have 2 hives side by side, very close together, and one hive has a queen and the other is queenless, will the queenright hive draw bees into it from the queenless hive?


So they say.
But I will qualify.
If the queen-less hive was failing and had all kinds of trouble and no brood - may be so indeed (rats are jumping the ship).
If the queen-less hive is healthy and full of brood - why should they jump the ship?


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## AR1

GregV said:


> If the queen-less hive is healthy and full of brood - why should they jump the ship?


Foragers drift a lot into nearby hives. If one has a nice homey queen smell and the other doesn't, I suspect the drift will trend towards the hive with the queen. The two hives were one hive until a few days ago, so they are all closely related and were all in the same hive together.

I pulled the frames from a packed nuc and put them in a ten-deep today. Just in time I think. Lots of queen cells forming, though they are not inhabited yet. One looked like it might have jelly but it was hard to see. Did not see the queen so I hope she got moved. I put the nuc back in place so all the lost bees will have a place to go, and the queen in case she didn't get transferred. Took the new hive to my dad's farm. Two there now. 

That nuc had lots of drone brood that I cut out. It was late so I didn't try to get all of them. A storm was coming in and I didn't have time to open all the drone cells, but those I did looked very clean and good.

Tally: 10 hives, plus one more given away. 4 are 5-frame nucs, 5 are in single 10-frame deeps, one is in a 10-frame deep with a medium on top. One is for sure queenless since I just stole away the queen, another may be queenless.

I need to move a few more to my dad's farm. I have too many in my suburban back yard, even if my neighbors have not complained.

Getting good flow now, all are putting away honey and lots of nectar-filled frames. A nice rain tonight, just in time!


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## AR1

Not one single SHB this year! What's up with that?


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## AR1

Nice day, with a short, hard thunderstorm. It's been a good July so far and the flow is still going strong. 

I scraped a frame of honey today and had corn bread with comb honey and butter, with wild blackberries. That's good food for me.

Off to my niece's house today in the afternoon with a box of bees. She has 4 little kids who want to have bees.


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## AR1

A small disappointment. I went looking for a strong nuc to take to my niece. First checked the nuc that was laying worker, had got a queen and had normal brood. Now it is back to laying worker. I pulled out some nice clean frames with a little honey, pollen and nectar and no brood, and stuck in a few moldy frames for them to clean up. I figure to get some good out of them. 

So I left it and went to the next nuc. It looked fine and I transferred all 5 frames to a ten-deep. Lots of nice brood and some honey. Trimmed off some drone comb though there wasn't any capped drone larvae. Just a precaution. Did not see the queen. Looked in the bottom of the nuc box and there she was. Caught her and transferred her to the new hive. Put in the clean frames I stole from the laying worker nuc and closed it up. Off to visit my niece next.


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## AR1

Have all but one out of nucs and into 10-deep hives. Down to 6 in my back yard and two at the farm. 

Had a lot of fun at my niece's house. 4 kids, 7 on down. The littlest gave my leg a hug. Cute kids. I got a tour of the garden, the toad house (no visible toads), various bugs and worms. No problem transferring the bees, no stings. After a few minutes to calm down the kids and the bees, I popped the top and let them look at the bees. Advised mom to buy some Apivar.


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## AR1

Checked the 2 hives at my dad's place. Pulled a few frames, lots of brood in various stages and lots of new comb, so looks good. Cut off a chunk of drone comb maybe 3" X 3" to check for mites. Found two. The remaining drone larvae looked very good. Bees are covering most of the available frames but the end frames are not built up yet. Will need another box on each soon, since the weather has been excellent and no signs of a July dearth this year. Regular rains followed by sunny days, very nice.

Have not decided on a plan for these hives yet, build up or keep small, or split again near the end of July. I think if I leave them alone mites will build up fast in the fall.

Probably will move at least two more hives there in the coming weeks, maybe more.

Squashed a small hive beetle the other day. First of the season. Not sure why this year is so few. Maybe because my neighbors have fewer hives imported from the south? Possibly also because my hives are more packed with bees this year.


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## AR1

On 7/6 I split my biggest hive, pulled the queen and 5 frames onto a nuc. Today is 12 days later. I have a possibly queenless hive so I wanted to find a queen cell to put in. Opened up the 12-day split hive to look for queen cells and right off found a frame with 2, so that got moved into the queenless hive.

Not sure if that hive is really queenless though. It has gotten 2 frames of brood already. I did see a few new eggs so I guess there is a queen in there, but on the off chance it was laying worker I put the queen cells in. At any rate the frame of brood will bulk the hive up. I looked very carefully for a queen but didn't find her. I need to buy a marking pen.

But the surprise, a good one, was that I spotted a queen in the hive that was split 12 days ago! Surprised she had not destroyed the other queen cells yet. They must have had a queen cell already well along the way when I did my split. That's a relief. 
There was one frame in there that was mostly drone brood, pretty mature, so I pulled that. It had quite a bit of nectar and honey as well so I cut out the honey and left the frame outside for the bees to clean up the nectar. Once it's drier I'll check for mites. The few I opened looked fine.

I had thought to let the laying worker hive go extinct, but since I had plenty of queen cells to play with, they also got a frame with 2 cells. Who knows, it might take this time. They had done me the favor of cleaning up two frames of moldy old comb, so even laying workers are slightly useful.

The other 3 hives, from swarms this spring, look okay. The biggest swarm is filling ten deep frames, so it got a medium on top. The other two are still working to fill so other than verifying brood got left alone. Dug out a few drone cells. No mites found in that small sample. 

I am about to the point of deciding not to do any more splits this year. Originally had planned to do a big split in late July and shoot for 15 colonies, mostly nucs going into winter. But none of my current colonies are really large enough to warrant the splitting. But if I don't then they will miss the double brood break that worked so well last year. Maybe I will split a couple of them, for luck.


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## Saltybee

Surprised she had not destroyed the other queen cells yet

She may have killed them without the bees tearing them open yet. Seems to me like that hatch to kill window varies more than commonly thought. Still worth an extra check in a few days to make sure those cells actually hatch. you don't want to be waiting for a dead queen to start laying.


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## AR1

Saltybee said:


> Surprised she had not destroyed the other queen cells yet
> 
> She may have killed them without the bees tearing them open yet. Seems to me like that hatch to kill window varies more than commonly thought. Still worth an extra check in a few days to make sure those cells actually hatch. you don't want to be waiting for a dead queen to start laying.


My thought is that these other queen cells were a later batch, started when I did my split. The queen must be very young, but possible a few weeks older than these cells. When she cut her way out and piped her challenge, they were too young to reply so went unnoticed. Possibly smell different at that age too. She would find them eventually.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> .........
> I am about to the point of deciding not to do any more splits this year. Originally had planned to do a big split in late July and shoot for 15 colonies, mostly nucs going into winter. But none of my current colonies are really large enough to warrant the splitting. *But if I don't then they will miss the double brood break that worked so well last year.* Maybe I will split a couple of them, for luck.


Split.
Then combine back later.

This double-brood break deserves a look as a tool of keeping alive non-resistant bees.
Now being mid-July, I am planning to pull the queens aside from the biggest swarms on hand and make *asymmetric *no-brood splits.
Benefits: 
1)keeping the originals as strong as possible and have them work on the crop while queen-less (making the splits even give you neither here nor there);
2)the pulled-aside queen contingent will receive a short-brood break and will have a smaller fraction of the mite population - some mite slow-down; important detail - this contingent will be of the shook young bees and needs support (feeding/food frames and some ready pre-drawn frames) to continue the brood generation 
3)the original queen keeps working and so, effectively, the population production does not stop for the original hive (it is just done *outside *of it)
4)when the original hive approaches to the self-requeening point after the proper brood-break - optionally plug in a different queen 
5)later in the season - recombine back the newly re-queened original hive and the split with the old queen (however you handle the old queen - up to you - but ideally the new queen should take over)
6)effectively you had your brood-break AND still have some crop for bees/yourself AND kept the # of the hives stable


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## AR1

GregV said:


> Split.
> Then combine back later.
> 
> This double-brood break deserves a look as a tool of keeping alive non-resistant bees.
> Now being mid-July, I am planning to pull the queens aside from the biggest swarms on hand and make *asymmetric *no-brood splits.
> Benefits:
> 1)keeping the originals as strong as possible and have them work on the crop while queen-less (making the splits even give you neither here nor there);
> 2)the pulled-aside queen contingent will receive a short-brood break and will have a smaller fraction of the mite population - some mite slow-down; important detail - this contingent will be of the shook young bees and needs support (feeding/food frames and some ready pre-drawn frames) to continue the brood generation
> 3)the original queen keeps working and so, effectively, the population production does not stop for the original hive (it is just done *outside *of it)
> 4)when the original hive approaches to the self-requeening point after the proper brood-break - optionally plug in a different queen
> 5)later in the season - recombine back the newly re-queened original hive and the split with the old queen (however you handle the old queen - up to you - but ideally the new queen should take over)
> 6)effectively you had your brood-break AND still have some crop for bees/yourself AND kept the # of the hives stable


It's a thought worth thinking about. I have a little time left.

Checked the bees at dad's. Look real good. Lots of new comb and honey. Not as many bees as I expected though so no new boxes added. One has nothing but crazy comb. My fault, I was short on frames so gave them all medium frames in a large box. The lower edges are going all over. 

Weather has been unusually good. Today started sunny, then a short, hard rain, and now sunny again. No loss of flow that I can tell this July.


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## AR1

Scraped and strained a frame of honey. 3lbs 4oz of honey.

The drone comb cut out yesterday has very few mites. Not gonna say zero mites, but I did not see one. This is drone comb from the hive that had not been split this year, but it had all drone comb removed several times.


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## Litsinger

AR1:

Glad to read that things continue to progress in your apiary- I am also glad to read that you are making good return on your sweat equity investment.

I'll look forward to reading how your season rounds-out.

Russ


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## AR1

On 7/6 I split my biggest hive, pulled the queen and 5 frames onto a nuc, leaving the great majority of the brood and bees in the original hive. 12 days later I found a big new queen in that hive, and some capped queen cells. I had intended to use these queens for splits, but ended up putting frames with queen cells in a couple of hives that were queenless.

On July 20th that hive swarmed, a biggish swarm that landed low in a peach tree. Scrapped them into a box and there they are today. The original drop into the box didn't get the queen. I was pretty sure she wasn't inside because the bees didn't quickly enter. I looked around and finally found her in front of the hive, after a couple of tries I caught her and put her in the top and eventually the bees went inside.

I think this was a late hatched queen and not the one I found earlier. She seemed rather smaller and slim. Probably a late hatching virgin. 

I think I am done for this summer. I am out of time and equipment. Too much else going on in life to spend a lot of time doing a second set of splits, much as I would like to.


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## AR1

Oh, the 'swarm lure' didn't work. It's a sock filled with old comb and sprinkled with lemon grass oil, about 5 feet off the ground in a small tree, in hopes that any swarms would land there and be easy to catch. They chose a low tree about 20 feet away.


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## AR1

As of July 20 all my hives have either swarmed, been split, or are the result of those swarms. Only one has not had a long brood break. 12 live colonies total (ten under my control). 

Next step is to go into each hive and remove all drone brood. If I am not going to be doing more splits (forced brood breaks), I won't need the drones. If I am not doing more splits (double brood breaks), I need to do something else to control fall mites. 

I do not know if just drone control will be enough to control mites. It appears to be working, since I am no longer finding mites in recently cut out drone brood. It's a numbers game. Mites reproduce in worker brood, but much less successfully than in drone brood. 

Short-term goal: Get through late fall queen right and low mites.

Mid-term goal: Overwinter live colonies.

Longer-term goal: Split like crazy next spring. Set up a larger rural yard and leave them alone for a season and see how they handle mites without intervention, while maintaining the home yard with more intensive interventions, expecting a high loss rate in the rural yard that will have to be made up.


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## AR1

Did a thorough inspection of two hives I hadn't been in recently, looked at all frames. Both hives are in single deeps and both have a few frames not yet built up with comb. Found both queens, one slim and smaller and the other large and fat. Both have brown abdomens and black thoraxes. Both hives have large amounts of capped brood and much smaller areas of eggs. Not much uncapped larvae. Not much honey stored.

I cleaned out the drone brood, very little of it, maybe 20 cells between both hives. Found not one mite on the ones I was able to extract from the cells.

No hive beetles! Very happy this year, have only seen 2 or 3 all year.

The weather this year has been nearly ideal. Frequent rains mean not much of a dearth. Bees are all over my melons and zucchini flowers. Lots of days in the 90s in July, but the last few nights have been in the 50s.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I cleaned out the drone brood, very little of it, maybe 20 cells between both hives. Found not one mite on the ones I was able to extract from the cells.
> 
> No hive beetles! Very happy this year, have only seen 2 or 3 all year.
> 
> The weather this year has been nearly ideal. Frequent rains mean not much of a dearth. Bees are all over my melons and zucchini flowers. Lots of days in the 90s in July, but the last few nights have been in the 50s.


Sounds promising, AR1. Looks like your drone trapping is paying off. I noticed you had a couple of swarms recently too- how many does that make for you this season?

It has surprisingly been a quiet SHB season here in Western Kentucky as well. I am seeing some, but no more than a few or a half-dozen in any hive I am into.

We too have been the beneficiaries of a long, protracted spring followed by a warm and wet Summer. All in all, it has been a great bee year thus far,

Enjoy the updates- keep up the good work.

Russ


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Sounds promising, AR1. Looks like your drone trapping is paying off. I noticed you had a couple of swarms recently too- how many does that make for you this season?
> 
> 
> Russ


5. I had all but one of my hives in one 10-deep or one 5-deep nuc in May. Part of the plan was to keep them smaller and encourage swarms. 

That part of it obviously worked. Now a second thought. A swarm from a small hive will be even smaller. If you want a swarm that is big enough to build up quickly then the home hive needs to be bigger.

Swarms were May 27 and 30 (two swarms), June 14 and July 20.


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## AR1

Opened up the two hives at the farm for a deep dive. 

Hive one had a small amount of drone comb mixed in with the worker brood. I just scratched across the tops and squashed it without removing it. Got most of it and was not able to evaluate mites. Bees looked good. Lots of brood in nice patterns. Almost boring, except for all the cross comb.

Hive two was a different story. Lots and lots of drone comb hanging below medium frames in a deep box. I scrapped off drone comb from 4 frame's lower edges. Drones of all ages. I was a bit late as a large patch had already emerged. 

What was interesting was that the younger drone larvae had very few mites. I started with that and was getting a bit smug, until I moved on to older drones, almost ready to emerge or actually in the process of emerging. A LOT of dead drones with multiple mites present. Also a lot of good, healthy-looking drones ready to emerge. What I suspect happened is the queen started laying drone eggs and all the mites crowded in as soon as the brood was available. So the first laid drones were overloaded with mites and the later drones laid had very few. 

This tells me that if I intend to use drone culling to control mites, I have to be on top of things and not wait too late to cut out the comb. That patch that was already emerged was probably thick with mites. The small amount of worker comb appeared free of mites, but I didn't remove enough to really say. Drone culling clearly has limits. With 10 hives I am about at my limit, or even a bit over.

The other fun thing in this hive was that they appear to have reproduction on the brain. Not only all those many drones, but also at least 6 queen cells. One I damaged while cutting out the drone comb, didn't even see it until I was dissecting it for mites. I harvested 4 and left two. There were also a couple of uncapped queen cells with jelly. Time to get a bunch of swarm traps up there. 

The queen cells came home with me and went into two queenless hives. One was that poor, sad drone laying worker hive. It got a frame of eggs and bees, and two queen cells. 

The other was a hive that had swarmed out her queen then not requeened. I found queen cells starting on a frame of eggs I gave them, and there is a very nice capped queen cell there. I added the two queen cells just as a precaution.

It is a bit late for swarms here, but what the heck? At worst they can be combined with another hive.


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## AR1

Robbers!!! The poor, sad laying worker hive is tussling at the front entrance with some bees. They appear to be handling it Okay and the entrance is tiny. I'll block it off a bit more later today. 

That hive has actually been fairly useful. Obviously not holding its own with no queen, but it is making honey and gathering pollen. I have stolen frames to use in other hives and replaced them with the moldiest frames I had laying around, and they cleaned them right up.


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## AR1

Laid an old shirt over the entrance to block the flow of bees. It didn't appear there were many successfully getting in. Standing on the sidelines were a couple of yellow jackets, apparently calmly waiting their turns.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> That hive has actually been fairly useful.


Yep. As long they are working - make good use of them.


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## AR1

Well well. That laying worker hive now has a queen who is laying eggs! I was pretty shocked and had really given up on it. I suppose I had better stop stealing their resources. 

They were being robbed, or maybe just starting to be robbed since it didn't look too bad. I laid an old shirt across the entrance and that seems to have taken care of the problem. No more yellow jackets at the entrance either.

A few days ago looked into all the hives. Lots of pollen but none have much honey. More of a dearth than I had thought? The last few weeks have been dry, which is normal around here this season. But when I opened the hives today there were no attempts at robbing. Saw one small hive beetle, no moths, no mites. The small drone comb was mite-free but it was hard to see much since they were in the middle of a frame covered with bees.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Well well. That laying worker hive now has a queen who is laying eggs!.......


This season I have been playing these "queen raising" games.
Pretty much tired of trying to determine what the heck is going on.
One day the queen is nowhere to be found; next time she is there; next time I see two queens side by side..
All kinds of things are going on - if one is to look.
Pretty crazy.
Still don't really know what I got on hand.
Too many queens, very little certainty who is bad and who is good and why that one is not still laying since long ago (or maybe I need to upgrade my glasses).


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## AR1

GregV said:


> This season I have been playing these "queen raising" games.
> Pretty much tired of trying to determine what the heck is going on.
> One day the queen is nowhere to be found; next time she is there; next time I see two queens side by side..
> All kinds of things are going on - if one is to look.
> Pretty crazy.
> Still don't really know what I got on hand.
> Too many queens, very little certainty who is bad and who is good and why that one is not still laying since long ago (or maybe I need to upgrade my glasses).


It's all good fun. Hopefully in a month more will be clarified. Certainly winter will weed out the stock.

I harass the bees more than I should, opening and doing whole-hive inspections. Sometimes see a queen and sometimes not. For that laying worker hive I actually took a frame and walked out into the full sun to convince myself I was seeing eggs in a decent pattern and not just random drone larvae. This was after seeing some normal-looking capped brood and thinking 'hmmm'. Found the queen on the next frame. She is smaller but any queen is better than none in this case. She will be 3rd-4th generation from the founding queen, I believe. I may give them a frame of brood to bulk them up. 

These bees seem to guard the entrances quite well, and I have seen them catching and flying away with SHBs. Some odd behavior I will post a pic of tonight...


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## AR1

What you are seeing is bearding. But why? I can understand if it's a hot day some hives will beard. But these two, particularly the red one, beard all the time, every day. The only time they are NOT bearding is during the middle of the day when many are out foraging. But go out there in the morning, in the evening, on cool nights, and there they are covering the front six bees deep and a foot square. I thought maybe they were just jam-packed in with bees, but I opened the hive and they really only cover 6 frames fully and a bit on the others. Not overpopulated at all. What's up with that?


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> View attachment 57911
> View attachment 57913
> 
> 
> What you are seeing is bearding. But why? ......What's up with that?


My my theory (as I recently complained of similar "lazy" bees) - this is about the generational dis-balance in the workforce.

What you observe is TOO MANY young bees.
So many of them - there are out of work.

They don't forage yet; but also not needed inside - hence just get out of the house to free up space.
I think this is a sign of wrong bee for your location - unused bee-force is costly to maintain and yet they bringing nothing to the table.
Ideal bee colony has good balance at all times over the season and so ALL bees are working at all times.
The colony will shrink at proper time and grow at proper time.
The bees tuned properly for the location are much more efficient in resource intake/resource usage over the season - which is what you want if to make a good crop.

These pics I posted before - well balanced hive vs. poorly balanced hive (standing 10 steps from each other).
By the time these excess bees will start foraging, the flow will be largely over.
I hope they might hit some goldenrod IF there is any flow (but we have drought conditions).


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## AR1

That makes sense, BUT, they have been doing this all summer. I was concerned that they were overpopulated and going to swarm late, but when I checked there were not all that many bees inside, multiple unused frames. They have been hanging out outside the hive for months now. 

I just went back and took another pic at 10:00PM. It's cool outside, black night. Why are they outdoors?


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## AR1

Another bit of behavior I wonder about. Saw it again today. Suddenly there where hundreds of frantic bees in the air swirling around one hive, rushing in and out, acting excited. I see this now and then in different hives. It resembles swarming behavior, but less dense clouds of bees. After ten or twenty minutes they all go back inside and things calm down. I suspected robbing but there was no sign of defensive behavior.

This I suspect is the result of a large hatch, lots of young bees all hatched at about the same time, and they all get the idea to go outside and play, doing their orientation flights together. It's a bit nerve-wracking, waiting for the swarm that doesn't come.


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## Gino45

AR1 said:


> Another bit of behavior I wonder about. Saw it again today. Suddenly there where hundreds of frantic bees in the air swirling around one hive, rushing in and out, acting excited.
> 
> In the afternoon, the young bees will be making their test flights, typically around 2.
> 
> For a hive that is hanging out I have learned to tip over 90 degress, pull off the bottom board and inspect both it and the brood box from underneath. This inspection will quickly reveal if the hive has 'issues' that may not be seen from above.


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## AR1

Gino45 said:


> AR1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For a hive that is hanging out I have learned to tip over 90 degress, pull off the bottom board and inspect both it and the brood box from underneath. This inspection will quickly reveal if the hive has 'issues' that may not be seen from above.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't on this hive. It has a permanent bottom board screwed on. I have however done a full inspection of every frame. No beetles, no swarm cells, decent brood patterns. I'm fuddled.
Click to expand...


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## Gino45

AR1 said:


> Gino45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't on this hive. It has a permanent bottom board screwed on. I have however done a full inspection of every frame. No beetles, no swarm cells, decent brood patterns. I'm fuddled.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to be a critic; however, I'm not impressed by the available entrance. For one it's not wide enough. If you aren't going to change out the bottom (I would), at the very least you could provide a top entrance of slide back the second or 3rd box to make an entrance. Guaranteed that the bees will use it.
> 
> I used to have nailed on bottoms back when I had mean as hell bees and I moved 3 high deeps into the honey flow by throwing them on the truck. No more though, as the 'mean' bees have become quite domesticated. If I moved 3 deeps now, I break them down. Not a problem to do this with my bees now.
Click to expand...


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## AR1

The yellow box has a fairly small entrance, but the red one, which is the one that really beards all the time, has two entrances, plenty of space. Both were originally swarm traps that have been pressed into use because I got too many swarms this year for my number of boxes. I like permanent bottoms and narrow entrances on the swarm traps. Normally the narrow entrances don't cause any problems and I don't see more bearding than on hives with full length entrances.


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## AR1

Taking Gino45's comments to heart, I added mediums above the two hives that like to beard, and put a shim under the lid to give them more ventilation and a way out of the hive at the top. Still bearding. It's fun to watch. 

Two hives appear queenless. One has had trouble all summer after it swarmed in June. I put a strong nuc on top of it with 2 layers of newspaper. This is my first year having this kind of problems with hives not making or keeping queens.

The other had a queen a few weeks ago. I will leave it a few days and then go looking for the queen again. If I still can't find her and see no non-drone brood she will get a newspaper combine too. This was a strong hive that was making honey, then it swarmed in July and has had trouble since, though it did make a queen. Now it is way down in numbers and apparently has no queen, and has no honey or nectar stored. All the other hives have some honey and nectar stored. I wonder if they didn't swarm again?

Is it safe to do a newspaper combine with a laying worker hive? I suspect not. I searched the forums for a good, comprehensive post on laying worker problems and solutions, but didn't find one. If anyone knows where one is could you post the link, please? That would be a good thing to make a sticky.


----------



## AR1

A portion of my harvest today. Sweet corn, green and purple beans, mint, zucchini, tomatoes, bitter melon, cantaloupe, peach, okra. The watermelon was picked yesterday, and I also consumed apples from the tree and grapes from the vine, and chewed tobacco. 

Most of that was grown from seeds saved and planted. Even the peach. I did buy some zucchini seeds this spring. The sweetcorn is a cross of purchased sweetcorn seed years ago and colored 'indian' corn so it is all sorts of odd colors. Took a few years to get a good, sweet variety but have not had a bad one these last few years.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> View attachment 58051
> 
> 
> A portion of my harvest today..........


Good deal!
This year I am really hitting on the green beans, because they freeze great AND kids eat them.
I strategically planted my climber green bees around July 4th - so to avoid the Japanese beetles.
Was a good decision.
There is at least another month of the green bean season yet.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Good deal!
> This year I am really hitting on the green beans, because they freeze great AND kids eat them.
> I strategically planted my climber green bees around July 4th - so to avoid the Japanese beetles.
> Was a good decision.
> There is at least another month of the green bean season yet.


I am about to plant my fall crop of green beans. Usually can get a second season in but it's a little late this year. 

My wife counts things. Recently we have been counting how many separate foods we eat each meal that we grew ourselves. I believe the final count was 14, including tiny amounts of spices and flavorings.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I am about to plant my fall crop of green beans. Usually can get a second season in but it's a little late this year.
> 
> My wife counts things. Recently we have been counting how many separate foods we eat each meal that we grew ourselves. I believe the final count was 14, including tiny amounts of spices and flavorings.


A little late for the fall crop of the bush beans (unless get lucky - never know).
This is why I like the pole beans - these will crop non-stop until frost now.
Still have lots of bush beans too because these don't get as much Japanese beetle damage.


----------



## AR1

So I tried to make 'blue shop towel OA' yesterday. I guess the water wasn't hot enough, it didn't dissolve. So the mess is sitting in a pan in the garage waiting until I have time to reheat it and try again. I figure to OA half or somewhat more than half the colonies, and leave a few to soldier on untreated, to see if they survive winter. I have two isolated colonies that would not mite-bomb any others, mine or the neighbors. Should have done this a month ago, but with work and classes, was too frazzled to think of other things. On my last class for a BSN (nursing).

Did a newspaper combine last week. No time to check on them. I need to pop the top and make sure they didn't kill the queen. 

The cantaloupes went crazy this year. We have been eating 4-5 every day, and been giving away lots to the neighbors. Nice flavor. Saving seeds. I had a spectacularly delicious melon a few years ago and replanted seeds from it. They look strange, slightly elongated, and smooth greenish skins, with firm flesh. The watermelons have been good too. They love the hot, dry weather.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I figure to OA half or somewhat more than half the colonies, and leave a few to soldier on untreated, to see if they survive winter.


AR1:

Enjoying the updates. If you don't mind me asking, what are you going to use as your 'go-no-go' threshold to determine whether a particular hive gets OA?


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> AR1:
> 
> Enjoying the updates. If you don't mind me asking, what are you going to use as your 'go-no-go' threshold to determine whether a particular hive gets OA?


Not that organized! Have not even done an alcohol mite count yet. They all have mites, so they all could stand a treatment. Last winter went too well, with no treatments. It is more along the lines of insurance.


----------



## AR1

Remember those bearding bees? Still at it. I came home this morning at about 8 o'clock. It stormed overnight and was still raining. I went back and checked. Yep. Still at it. Not nearly as many, but what are they thinking about? They were wet, and all lined up perfectly vertically in rows. I thought they might be dead from the cold and wet, but I poked them and they moved.


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## AR1

Placed shop towels on two hives. Will watch a few days to see how the bees respond before placing on more. Randy Oliver has said that some beekeepers report bee deaths after placement. Contaminated ingredients?


----------



## AR1

The blue shop towels are in three hives. No signs of unusual activity or abnormal numbers of dead bees. So I will put some in a few more hives.

One hive had lots of dead bees all around it (not a hive with shop towels) hundreds at least of dead bees. Also lots of fighting with yellow jackets with some obviously getting inside. I closed off the entrance to a few inches and the yellow jackets are no longer attacking the front entrance. They are still working the ground, picking up dead bees. There were a lot of immature bees being cleaned out for a few days. I wonder if that was yellow jacket activity killing them or if it is the worker bees cleaning up a problem. I have since put blue shop towels in that hive too, in case it is a mite problem.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> The blue shop towels are in three hives.....


What is your recipe AR?

I suspect I got at least one worthless hive that I may be better of using it as bee resource in spring time (doubt they even make it).

No payback from these slackers after the entire summer - all they had as of a couple of weeks ago - 12 frames of brood and zero stores (bone dry).
But if I spend the time and sugar feeding them slackers, maybe I should experiment on them to get at least some utility out.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> What is your recipe AR?
> 
> I suspect I got at least one worthless hive that I may be better of using it as bee resource in spring time (doubt they even make it).
> 
> No payback from these slackers after the entire summer - all they had as of a couple of weeks ago - 12 frames of brood and zero stores (bone dry).
> But if I spend the time and sugar feeding them slackers, maybe I should experiment on them to get at least some utility out.


I used the recipe Randy Oliver posted:
For 10 towels 120 grams oxalic crystals, 100 ml water, 130 ml glycerine.
The water needs to be quite warm in order to dissolve the oxalix. Once dissolved, add warm glycerine. After the towels cool they are distictly moist and only a small amount of the oxalic recrystalizes.

Few of my hives have more than a little honey. No harvest this fall. Time to buy more sugar.


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## AR1

Small, weak hive badly pestered by yellow jackets. None of the others seem bothered but all entrances reduced.

On that small hive even a one-bee entrance hole was not helping. Population of bees had sunk too much. I finally used steel wool to completely block the entrance. Came back the next day and the yellow jackets had pulled the steel wool apart enough to get in! I packed a thicker layer in to completely block the entrance, and gave the bees some moist sugar to eat. Probably useless. Just trying to keep them alive until I have tome to combine them with another hive. Yellow jackets now cluster along the edges trying to get in, makes it very easy to squash 4-5-6 at a time. 

Weather is now distinctly cool, 40s-50s at night, with 60s-low 70s in the day. Lots of pollen coming in still. Garden still going strong, but the cantaloupes are about done, bugs getting to them, and rotting on the ground. It was an excellent year for cantaloupes. Watermelons grew great, but turned out a bit bland. Picked several today, hoping they might have ripened a bit more. 

My last class prior to getting my degree finishes in a week and a half. I calculated that if I get a 30% on my final paper, I can still pass the class and graduate...that's my level of enthusiasm.
So looking forward to having time! My hospital is going bankrupt (so they say, the CEO is still getting his 6 million/year salary), so I may have LOTS of time coming up! It's nice to be nearing retirement age and having a bit of money saved. I don't mind losing my job at this stage of life. A nurse can always find work, and a few weeks or months applying for jobs would be a much-needed vacation.


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## Chicago_ks

AR1 said:


> My last class prior to getting my degree finishes in a week and a half. I calculated that if I get a 30% on my final paper, I can still pass the class and graduate...that's my level of enthusiasm.


I got a chuckle from this. All the stress and work seem to peek right about the end. I'm sure you'll do better than 30%.
ks


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## Saltybee

Congrats AR1


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## Litsinger

Saltybee said:


> Congrats AR1


Agreed- quite an accomplishment. Congratulations on completing the degree and I do hope you are able to look for possible new employment on your own terms rather than under the reality of no job.


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Agreed- quite an accomplishment. Congratulations on completing the degree and I do hope you are able to look for possible new employment on your own terms rather than under the reality of no job.


Completely on my own terms now. They could fire my *** tomorrow and I don't care.


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## AR1

Down to 6 hives in my back yard and two at the farm, plus two given away to friends. So my year of increase is fairly successful considering how little time I had to devote to bees this year, from 4 overwintered to 10 surviving now. Very interested to see what winter brings. This rest of this fall will be devoted to building boxes, so I have enough for one on top of each hive to overwinter, stuffed full of insulation.

Lots of pollen coming in. The weather has been pretty good, cool nights and daytime temps in the 60s-70s. The bees are very active even in the cool mornings. We get frost usually in October, occasionally in late September but not this year it appears.

No signs of yellow jackets excessively pestering the bees. The few I see get immediately mobbed and chased away. They look dejected and are not trying hard to get in. I found a fun way to kill yellow jackets. I had left out some caked sugar and noticed yellow jackets and other wasps thick on it. No bees. So I started carrying a fly swatter with me and a few quick whacks gets a handful every time. The element of danger increases the fun.

I passed my last class in nursing school for my BSN. Graduation date is in November.


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## Saltybee

Caked sugar will cut down on robbing. The first hunters find the sugar to be an easier target than hives and seem to settle for easy over plentiful.


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## Boondocks

I'm a retired RN. The nice thing about nursing is the choice of specialties you can try out. I worked in a teaching hospital the last 20 years, always something interesting going on. I worked in adult medicine, adult surgery, post-anesthesia unit, drug study coordinator, pediatric clinic, pediatric medicine, PICU, and utilization review all at the same big hospital. 
Some nurses worked from home doing work for medical insurance companies, workers comp, and UR. Also traveling nurses are making great money these days due to the coronavirus. Some nurses I worked with traveled to San Antonio, TX back in the 2000's when they had a shortage of nurses and were making $60-75/hr working in a ICU. 
When will you take the nursing board exam? 

Anyway it looks like the warm weather is taking a break this week, after today's rain here in Georgia it will actually be cool and dry for the next two weeks. Yay!

I use wax moth traps and they really pull in the wasps, yellow jackets, hornets and those big horseflies as well as the moths. 
1 cup water, 1 cup sugar, 1 cup cider vinegar, one cut up banana peel. Drill a one inch hole in a plastic bottle just below the curve of the neck. Hang them up within a few feet of the hives.


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## AR1

Boondocks said:


> I'm a retired RN. The nice thing about nursing is the choice of specialties you can try out. I worked in a teaching hospital the last 20 years, always something interesting going on. I worked in adult medicine, adult surgery, post-anesthesia unit, drug study coordinator, pediatric clinic, pediatric medicine, PICU, and utilization review all at the same big hospital.
> Some nurses worked from home doing work for medical insurance companies, workers comp, and UR. Also traveling nurses are making great money these days due to the coronavirus. Some nurses I worked with traveled to San Antonio, TX back in the 2000's when they had a shortage of nurses and were making $60-75/hr working in a ICU.
> When will you take the nursing board exam?
> 
> Anyway it looks like the warm weather is taking a break this week, after today's rain here in Georgia it will actually be cool and dry for the next two weeks. Yay!
> 
> I use wax moth traps and they really pull in the wasps, yellow jackets, hornets and those big horseflies as well as the moths.
> 1 cup water, 1 cup sugar, 1 cup cider vinegar, one cut up banana peel. Drill a one inch hole in a plastic bottle just below the curve of the neck. Hang them up within a few feet of the hives.


Sounds like you had a good career! I am already licensed, started with an ADN 5 years ago, hospitals wants everyone to get a BSN so I went. I am in cardiac telemetry/stroke, currently working on the step-down ICU. Spent all spring and summer working the corona virus unit. Thankfully that is done, at least for now. 

I tried a wasp trap last year and didn't catch much. Maybe try again if they start getting bad again. They did nearly kill one little hive, that I ended up combining.


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## Litsinger

Congratulations on securing your BSN, AR1. Best of success to you in your career endeavors going forward.


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## AR1

90% of effort is spent on the weakest 10% of hives. 

If I had 100 hives I would probably just let it die.

Yellow jackets back pestering one hive. I noticed that they fly a lot earlier in the morning and in much cooler weather than bees, so I think that is when they get started getting inside hives, when the guard bees are chilled and dopey. Cut entrances back to one bee hole and a narrow gap between boxes. Tomorrow will open it up to see how much is left.

Had a corona patient last two nights at work. Fortunately not serious and already on the mend. I am always a hypochondriac for a day or two after a corona patient.


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## AR1

You don't know till you look! Of the hives at home none have much honey, a few partial frames at best. Time to buy some sugar. All appear queen right and have small patches of brood. One hive, strong all year, I had to reduce to a 5-frame nuc. They got badly hurt a month or so ago in a war with yellow jackets. Now they have a tiny slot for an entrance and fill the space. Every hive seems to have a few hive beetles, but they don't seem to be reproducing. All I have seen are large adults, no small ones.

The 2 hives at the farm look much better. Full of bees with honey stores. 

Garden is almost done. Picked the last watermelons, still good and not overripe. Harvested some dried beans and sweetcorn for next year's seed. Still some lettuce, and that may last another month if the freeze isn't too hard. A few tomatoes and greens. Not a bad year considering nothing got planted before mid-June.


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## AR1

First frost was on October 4th. Very light frost, only a few zucchini leaves dead.

Lots of pollen going in, and the hives are very active.


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## gww

Same here, sweet potatoes.








I know, bad picture. Frost asters and smart weed still being worked hard by the bees.
Cheers
gww


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## AR1

Pretty much how the zucchinis look, maybe not quite that toasted. It didn't even touch the tomatoes so it must have been a very light frost.

I have tried sweet potatoes, but the woodchucks and deer like them too much. I'd shoot the chucks, they live under the barn foundation and I am afraid they will cause structural damage eventually, but they are too wary and fast for me. Heck, I'd shoot the deer too, but first day of hunting season they are gone like smoke. You can see a whole herd of them every day all summer, but as soon as the first arrow flies, no sign of them.


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## GregB

My zucchinis are gone. Froze.
Ditto tomatoes. Harvested some green.
Managed to cover the pole green beans - just got frost bitten but survived.
And now we will have weeks of warm weather yet, just for shame.
At least I expect to harvest more green beans. Still a good crop in progress.
Good thing I have plenty of cool weather veg still going - kale, chard, beets, green onions.


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## AR1

I am always a bit sad when the summer crops are done. We are eating a watermelon a day (small ones, but still) but as soon as the melons in the garage are done, that's it. Got lots of good seeds for next spring planting...

I have been posting like this, with dates, to help my poor memory.


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## AR1

Weather report says temps down to 25F and snow coming up later this week. Time to harvest what may be the last tomatoes, and get some insulation on top the hives. 

I searched the garden today and found two more watermelons hiding in the weeds at the edge! Happy me.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> ..... get some insulation on top the hives......


I, in fact, took insulation off everywhere.
A layer of burlap is all they get until later in the season.


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## AR1

GregV said:


> I, in fact, took insulation off everywhere.
> A layer of burlap is all they get until later in the season.


Interesting to see what happens. I suspect if they have plenty of food, the insulation is unnecessary. My hives are all pretty light though.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Interesting to see what happens. I suspect if they have plenty of food, the insulation is unnecessary. My hives are all pretty light though.


Not about food, AR.
This is about setting up the cluster strategically before the winter - in the bottom; and keeping it there as long as possible.

September/October - I plugged all entrances but the very bottoms - this is to pull the nests down.
This is how my hives will stay until significant snow hits (then will open some top hole for emergency ventilation/exit).








Now as it is getting cool and cold, I want the bees stay low.
Insulating on the top will pull the bees up - they are no fools and shift to the warmest parts as soon as the cold hits.
Entering the winter at the very top is sub-optimal as they never go down again.


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## Litsinger

GregV said:


> This is about setting up the cluster strategically before the winter - in the bottom; and keeping it there as long as possible.
> 
> ...
> 
> Insulating on the top will pull the bees up - they are no fools and shift to the warmest parts as soon as the cold hits.
> Entering the winter at the very top is sub-optimal as they never go down again.


GregV:

Good feedback- while I don't know too much, my experience to-date suggests you are on to something here.

How's everything looking for you going into colder weather?


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## AR1

GregV said:


> Not about food, AR.
> This is about setting up the cluster strategically before the winter - in the bottom; and keeping it there as long as possible.
> 
> Now as it is getting cool and cold, I want the bees stay low.
> Insulating on the top will pull the bees up - they are no fools and shift to the warmest parts as soon as the cold hits.
> Entering the winter at the very top is sub-optimal as they never go down again.


Yes, makes sense if the hive has stores. Mine are light enough that I will start feeding on top very soon.


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## GregB

Got it. 
No stores - no matter.
You want them high.


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## GregB

Litsinger said:


> GregV:
> 
> Good feedback- while I don't know too much, my experience to-date suggests you are on to something here.
> 
> How's everything looking for you going into colder weather?


Will report soon on the latest.


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## AR1

Fun with yellow jackets! 
Bad this year, seriously weakening several of my hives, even with entrances pinched back to narrow slits. 

We have been eating a lot of watermelon recently, and the rinds go into the garden. Turns out yellow jackets LOVE watermelon rind. For several days I have been checking the garden garbage pile every few hours and stomping on clusters of yellow jackets. Probably got a hundred by now. I got a board and have been crushing the singletons with it. It's a mesmerizing activity, hard to stop once you start, and so satisfying. 

Oddly, they don't go in the trap I made, with watermelon inside. Maybe got two total.


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## AR1

Learn something new every year. This year it was how useless it is to try to fix a laying worker colony. I think back to the frames of brood wasted and the queen cells placed. They did finally accept a queen, just in time to get swarmed by yellow jackets. I eventually combined the last remnants with a stronger colony.

Also, how bad yellow jackets can be. In the past have never had these kinds of problems. Of my 6 back yard colonies, 4 are currently under assault and appear weak. I have closely watched the process and noted a few things. 

Yellow jackets can fly in much colder, windier weather than honey bees. 40 degrees is fine weather for them. They start flying early on cold mornings and invade the hives when the guard bees are slow and stupid. 

Yellow jackets start by killing off the guard bees. Once those are destroyed, they have free access to the hive regardless of how many bees are in the hive. It's a very quick trip downhill for a hive after the guards are dead.

Once the guards are gone, it doesn't matter how small/narrow the entrances are. The yellow jackets will penetrate the hive through a one-bee-sized entrance. Reducing the entrance to a tiny crack is something you do before the yellow jackets get bad.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Also, how bad yellow jackets can be.


While I've not dealt with this, it sure does sound like a difficult problem. Hopefully this year is an anomaly and not a regular occurrence for you.

Best of luck to you in getting your colonies set-up for Winter.

Russ


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> While I've not dealt with this, it sure does sound like a difficult problem. Hopefully this year is an anomaly and not a regular occurrence for you.
> 
> Best of luck to you in getting your colonies set-up for Winter.
> 
> Russ


A month ago I wasn't worried about winter. I had 8 reasonably healthy colonies and figured with some sugar blocks even the ones light on honey would be Okay, like last year. Now I have at best 4 decently strong colonies. We will see...


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I used the recipe Randy Oliver posted:
> For 10 towels 120 grams oxalic crystals, 100 ml water, 130 ml glycerine.
> The water needs to be quite warm in order to dissolve the oxalix. Once dissolved, add warm glycerine. After the towels cool they are distictly moist and only a small amount of the oxalic recrystalizes.
> 
> Few of my hives have more than a little honey. No harvest this fall. Time to buy more sugar.


Here is a guy who experimented with a similar method (OA + glycerine), except he just used paper board cut to strips (instead of the towels).




And the treatment results. 
It works.


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## AR1

Looked into my hives today, handed out some sugar cakes. 

One dead, three very weak, lots of dead yellow jackets inside the hives. They fought hard but the YJs were just too much for them. The dead one was my original queen that came in a swarm last year, so at least 2 years old and probably 3. The dead one and the 3 weak ones were all strong a few months ago, and very active until a few weeks ago when the YJs got too busy. Doubtless mites also played a significant role, but these hives had gotten oxalic acid towels. No signs of wing virus in any of these hives all year.

All but one have insulated boxes on top. That last one will get a box in a few days when I get time. Weather into the 20s at night the next few days. Will think about and probably combine the weak hives into one.

Can't blame weather this year, it has been just about perfect all year. Next year, assuming any survivors, I will work on spring elimination of YJ queens, and try earlier mite suppression with oxalic acid. Was late with it this year.

Need to check my 2 hives at the farm. They don't get looked into very often, other than to crack the top and peek in. They also need insulated boxed on top, and maybe sugar.

Very disappointing fall, as I now expect several of these very weak hives to fail.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> .................
> Very disappointing fall, as I now expect several of these very weak hives to fail.


Why not dump the projected failures together?

Pretty soon I need to do a round and see where mine are standing (been a while).
I think I will experiment with dumping together some of my projected low value dead-outs.
What is there to loose?
They normally die of the above average attrition and then freeze to death - I figure if I dump together 3 or 4 zombie hives, they might actually make it? (queens are of low value anyway).


----------



## AR1

Yes, that is my thought. Combine all the weak ones together. Or, two weak ones added to one stronger one.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Or, two weak ones added to one stronger one.


Here is where good to know the mite counts.
I would not combine high-mite failures to a strong low-mite unit.

If I don't know the counts, I would not risk a strong unit.
But even then, who is to tell IF that strong unit will still be strong the next 1-2 months.
I have a very strong unit (as of 2-3 weeks ago!) - an actual mite dump. 
Will not be surprised if I find them "absconded" on my next check.


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## AR1

40 degrees, wasps flying. Honey bees out in a protected, sunny location, other hives no activity.


----------



## AR1

Bees were out flying today and surprised to see no yellow jackets. From external activity it appears 3 hives are doing Okay.

Spent the afternoon outdoors in the nice weather. Mowed up leaves and buried them in the garden. Dig a trench 2-3 feet deep, dump in leaves until full, then cap with an inch or two of dirt. Repeat. By spring the mounds will have pretty much sunk back to ground level. A 3' layer of leaves ends up a 1" layer of leaves by next fall. Been doing this for nearly a decade and the soil is finally starting to look like topsoil. The builder strip-mined the topsoil so it is nothing but hard clay on my lawn.

Found a spoon. It must have got dumped out with the kitchen garbage sometime in the last few years. I felt like Schliemann digging up Troy.


----------



## JWPalmer

AR1 said:


> Found a spoon. It must have got dumped out with the kitchen garbage sometime in the last few years.


Had the same thing happen to me.


----------



## AR1

Opened up another presumed dead hive. Yep. A few lethargic bees left. Lots of dead yellow jackets on the floor. Also some small hive beetles and mites. Not as many mites on the floor as I had expected. There is some capped brood left, so I will open those up and see how badly infected the final generation was. This hive had oxalic acid towels on, so mites may not have been a major part of their doom, but the brood will tell more. Surprised to see some capped honey and lots of nectar-filled comb.

The bees at the farm appeared active today, lots of activity at the entrances. As soon as I get some sugar cakes hardened I will add insulated tops and set them up for winter. Temps were up to 70 today! Harvested lettuce and greens today.


----------



## Trin

AR1 said:


> Bees were out flying today and surprised to see no yellow jackets. From external activity it appears 3 hives are doing Okay.
> 
> Spent the afternoon outdoors in the nice weather. Mowed up leaves and buried them in the garden. Dig a trench 2-3 feet deep, dump in leaves until full, then cap with an inch or two of dirt. Repeat. By spring the mounds will have pretty much sunk back to ground level. A 3' layer of leaves ends up a 1" layer of leaves by next fall. Been doing this for nearly a decade and the soil is finally starting to look like topsoil. The builder strip-mined the topsoil so it is nothing but hard clay on my lawn.
> 
> Found a spoon. It must have got dumped out with the kitchen garbage sometime in the last few years. I felt like Schliemann digging up Troy.


Just a suggestion; I also have a garden that was mostly clay with poor topsoil....when I moved in a long time ago. I had a compost pile going adding maple leaves in the fall, and kept putting that in the garden. The big change in soil happened when I tilled in a fair amount of sand. The sand helped disperse the clay. I now have 12-16 inches of good topsoil. At least I can't till deep enough to see clay anymore. I also tilled in a fair amount of charcoal from burning wood, and ash from the same. The charcoal boosts microbe populations.


----------



## AR1

Trin said:


> Just a suggestion; I also have a garden that was mostly clay with poor topsoil....when I moved in a long time ago. I had a compost pile going adding maple leaves in the fall, and kept putting that in the garden. The big change in soil happened when I tilled in a fair amount of sand. The sand helped disperse the clay. I now have 12-16 inches of good topsoil. At least I can't till deep enough to see clay anymore. I also tilled in a fair amount of charcoal from burning wood, and ash from the same. The charcoal boosts microbe populations.


I also use a lot of charcoal/ash from the fireplace. We burn most nights from Nov-March. Also I recycle all the kitchen waste and a lot of our paper waste. It all adds up. I should get a load of sand, but have not gotten around to it. Been thinking about that for a few years. 

It has been very warm this last week. This morning I even used the air conditioning in the car while driving home from work! In November! Some years it is feet deep in snow at this time. The bees seem happy, still gathering pollen from somewhere. Yellow Jackets still around but in smaller numbers. They seem dopy now and I easily smashed several with my finger this morning. Harvested a small amount of honey from a dead hive.


----------



## AR1

Down to 4 hives alive. Opened up one that had been badly harassed by yellow jackets to find it lifeless. In a very similar pattern to the other dead one, there were only a tiny number of dead bees in the hive, a few dozen, and no queen to be found. However, there was, in both hives, a patch of dead brood centered in the frame where the dead bees were. 

What I suspect happened is that the yellow jackets killed and carried off many of the young bees, until eventually there were not enough left keep the hive going. There was a small amount of honey left in both hives, and signs that the YJs were gnawing at it. Several dead YJs in both hives. Ultimately unsuccessful but happy to see they put up a fight.

Both hives had shop towel oxalic acid, and I found few mites on the floors. The bees appeared healthy with no wrinkled wings. Mites may have been what weakened the hives enough to leave them vulnerable to YJs, but don't appear to be what killed them. 

Popped the tops on two living hives, just to verify they are alive, did not dig in deeply to see how well-populated they are. At this point it doesn't matter. They will live or not and not much will make a difference. Both have some sugar cake and will get more later. Both have insulation on top. I got a covid vaccination from one hive, so that's good. ;-). Found a very large living yellow jacket under the insulation on one hive. A queen, hibernating for the winter? She chose badly!


----------



## Litsinger

AR1:

I am sincerely sorry to hear about your bee woes. While I see yellowjackets around hives around here, it sounds like you are dealing with a full-on assault. Based on your trapping and entrance-modification efforts this year, do you feel like you have a good control strategy for next year?


----------



## AR1

It was far in excess of anything I have seen in prior years. Once I did have YJs attack a hive, but that was a hive that was also being robbed by honeybees, and it stopped after I added a chimney entrance and closed off the main entrance. This year they literally pulled out the steel wool I used to block the entrance! 

I tried a trap, baited with watermelon, but only caught a few. Partly the problem was my own fault. Large numbers of YJs were attracted to my back yard by all the fruit and melon rinds in the garbage. From there it was only a short flight to the beehives. 

I plan to investigate spring YJ queen trapping, hoping that may help. I think it was a rare chance event this year: good weather allowed high YJ survival, small, weak bee colonies after too much swarming, and I left other YJ food sources nearby.

So...back down to 4 hives. Now to hope at least one survives winter!


----------



## Tigger19687

I found the YJs here like cheap red wine mixed with few drops of dish soap and Balogna that sat in the fridge a week too long. But they really like 1 bottle and when I put out 2 more it wasn't as effective.


----------



## AR1

Getting chilly finally, lots of frosty nights in the 20s (just under zero C) and cool 30s-40s daytime. Still seeing the occasional bee flying, not many. 

Got the fireplace going yesterday, first time this year. Spent a few hours sitting with my feet near the fire, gluing Mann Lake frames together. 

Free time has been spent cleaning up a large oak that fell across my dad's driveway. Lots of chainsaw and splitting work, that will be the firewood for next winter. Word gets around, and a couple of my old schoolmates showed up to score "free" firewood. All they had to do was saw and split and carry and load it onto a trailer. I was glad to see them. It was far more tree than I needed, and they spent a day cleaning up and burning the trash as well as getting their wood. A good deal for me, my dad, and them.

Sadly, a live cedar was blown down in the same storm. That tree looked much the same when I was a kid 50 years ago, just a bit thicker trunk. I think it might have lived as long again but for one wild storm. Looking forward to cutting the stump flat and counting the rings.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Got the fireplace going yesterday, first time this year.


You certainly held out a lot longer than we did. We've had the wood burner going for about a month now, at least in the mornings and in the evenings.

Glad to see you were able to share the bounty of your big oak with neighbors and friends- it is hard to beat good seasoned oak on a frigid evening.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Russ


----------



## JWPalmer

I am a bit envious of you both. My Buck stove is worn out and leaks air so bad that I cant keep a fire going for more than a few hours before it burns out, even with the vents and damper completely closed. Fire wood I cut and split years ago is rotting away. Had to switch to propane which is convenient, but just not the same. Nights here in VA have been in the mid 20's Daytime temps have been 40's but this weekend is supposed to get to 60. Woohoo. Still need to insulate a hive that only has 1/4" plywood for the side walls (my swarm trap that has a colony living in it at my work).

AR1, several months ago my son was awarded a Daisey and is now a charge in the cardiac unit at one of the larger HCA hospitals here in Richmond. Next month he is moving to cardiac ICU. He has been a nurse for just 1-1/2 years, but was an EMT for about nine years before he went to nursing school. I am pretty proud.


----------



## AR1

JWPalmer said:


> I am a bit envious of you both. My Buck stove is worn out and leaks air so bad that I cant keep a fire going for more than a few hours before it burns out, even with the vents and damper completely closed. Fire wood I cut and split years ago is rotting away. Had to switch to propane which is convenient, but just not the same. Nights here in VA have been in the mid 20's Daytime temps have been 40's but this weekend is supposed to get to 60. Woohoo. Still need to insulate a hive that only has 1/4" plywood for the side walls (my swarm trap that has a colony living in it at my work).
> 
> AR1, several months ago my son was awarded a Daisey and is now a charge in the cardiac unit at one of the larger HCA hospitals here in Richmond. Next month he is moving to cardiac ICU. He has been a nurse for just 1-1/2 years, but was an EMT for about nine years before he went to nursing school. I am pretty proud.


Several of my colleagues were EMTs before becoming nurses. Their skills are out of this world. It is sad that EMTs are not paid in proportion to their skills.

I plan to move from cardiac to step-down ICU soon. I have been off and on working step-down this whole year and like the environment. These are some hard-core, crabby old nurses who take no ****. Love them. My current cardiac team is so young I feel like I am back on a college campus. So cute, but not where I am at.

The warm weather has been nice, I can see bees flying. Have not opened any hives in a while but proof they are hanging on. In front of one hive there is animal scat that is nothing but bee parts. I think the possum that lives under the shed is picking out the dead ones from the entrance.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> You certainly held out a lot longer than we did. We've had the wood burner going for about a month now, at least in the mornings and in the evenings.
> 
> Glad to see you were able to share the bounty of your big oak with neighbors and friends- it is hard to beat good seasoned oak on a frigid evening.
> 
> Merry Christmas to you and your family.
> 
> Russ


Very late this year. Usually start about Nov first. I was busy. I was glad to get the oak...I can split it easily with an axe. The ash I cut last year was so tough I just chunked it with the chainsaw. Worse than elm.

My daughters plan to be home for Christmas!


----------



## Litsinger

JWPalmer said:


> I am a bit envious of you both. My Buck stove is worn out and leaks air so bad that I cant keep a fire going for more than a few hours before it burns out, even with the vents and damper completely closed.


We upgraded to a high-efficiency glass-front unit a few years ago. It took some getting used to, but it certainly affords much more precise draft control.

If you like wood culture, a book I highly recommend is 'Norwegian Wood'. It is as much a philosophical tome as it is a book about the nuts-and-bolts of felling, seasoning, splitting and burning wood- and it has great pictures too.

Burning a little black cherry tonight-


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I was glad to get the oak...I can split it easily with an axe. The ash I cut last year was so tough I just chunked it with the chainsaw. Worse than elm.


I do understand this. I also split mine manually and just recently finished splitting some elm and ash last week. 

A fellow recently asked me if I could financially justify the amount of time I spend preparing and burning wood. Without hesitation I made him aware that being out in the woodlot, having the opportunity to work up a sweat and clear my mind was worth far more to me than the resultant stack of stored sunlight.

Glad to hear you'll have your family in for Christmas.

Russ


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> I do understand this. I also split mine manually and just recently finished splitting some elm and ash last week.
> 
> A fellow recently asked me if I could financially justify the amount of time I spend preparing and burning wood. Without hesitation I made him aware that being out in the woodlot, having the opportunity to work up a sweat and clear my mind was worth far more to me than the resultant stack of stored sunlight.
> 
> Glad to hear you'll have your family in for Christmas.
> 
> Russ


Exactly. No financial justification for my garden, bees, or firewood. I could be going to work overtime and make piles more money if I gave up my hobbies. But life is for living.


----------



## JWPalmer

AR1 said:


> ...But life is for living.


Amen to that. Took me way too many years to figure it out.


----------



## AR1

Making sugar cakes tonight. Putting together frames, in front of the fireplace. 

Somehow work scheduled me for 7 days off in a row! I can get a few things done. My daughter is driving up from Texas in a few days, so I need to clean out the garage so she has a place to park the car out of the snow and cold.

I got my first dose of the Covid vaccine today at 0700. So far not even a sore shoulder.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I got my first dose of the Covid vaccine today at 0700. So far not even a sore shoulder.


AR, who is the manufacturer of your shot?


----------



## AR1

Pfizer, the only one available in the US right now. My hospital got 1800 doses. Second dose is in 21 days.


----------



## AR1

No side effects whatsoever after one day.


----------



## AR1

Made 8 pounds of sugar cake today. 5 oz of apple cider vinegar to one 4lb bag, pressed down in a cake pan and heated in the oven for an hour at 180 degrees. It hardened nicely, though my wife mentioned the strong smell of vinegar in the house.

Went to my dad's house to chain saw some oak and visited the 2 hives while there. Both alive. Laid a sugar cake on top of each, directly under the insulation. That worked well last year. They had eaten quite a bit of the sugar they got last month.

I was surprised at how moist the insulation felt. I plan to add another batt of insulation in each box so the box is completely full.


----------



## AR1

Got nice presents for Christmas. Medium frames from daughter #2, heirloom seeds from daughter #1. My kids know me.


----------



## Tigger19687

AR1 said:


> Got nice presents for Christmas. Medium frames from daughter #2, heirloom seeds from daughter #1. My kids know me.


Oh man Wish my kids were like that !
At least they know if I am not in the house I am pestering the Bees


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> No side effects whatsoever after one day.


ARI
Question, I am trying to get the straight answer on.
Is the COVID Vaccine a 1 and done or is it an annual? I know you need the 2 doses at 21 day break, but have heard the idea is the same as the flu shots you get one every year due to the antibodies needing bosting every year.

Do you have any input on that?

GG


----------



## AR1

Unknown at this time. We won't know for several years, until we start seeing reinfections of people who have had covid once, or, we don't see reinfections.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> Unknown at this time. We won't know for several years, until we start seeing reinfections of people who have had covid once, or, we don't see reinfections.


ok thanks

I see news of it morphing and have heard there are several variants so like the flu the "vaccine" would need to track that somewhat..

GG


----------



## Kevinf

Moderna rolled out in Portland last week and has a 28 day wait (+/- several days) for the second dose. I will note that having "side effects" such as body ache, fatigue, etc. is not a bad thing. It is just a sign that your body is mounting an immune response which is good.


----------



## AR1

I have heard that theory too, no idea if it is true or not. I rarely have any reaction to any vaccines.


----------



## Tigger19687

Hope you don't have a shellfish allergy....


----------



## AR1

Bringing in a load of firewood from the back yard, I notice several bees on top of the snow. What are they doing out, it hasn't been over the low 30s in weeks. So I pick up a few to take inside and get a close look at. 15 minutes later they are flying around my bedroom. About half are still alive. Silly things.

Got my second dose of the covid vaccine today. No side effects yet.


----------



## AR1

Update on vaccine side effects. After the second day I developed sore muscles, a low fever and just generally felt like crap. Looking back on it, I had similar effects 3-4 days after the first dose, which I thought was a cold. I had not associated it with the vaccine because the reaction was delayed a few days. If I had to describe it, I would say it is similar to a mild flu.


----------



## crofter

AR1 said:


> Update on vaccine side effects. After the second day I developed sore muscles, a low fever and just generally felt like crap. Looking back on it, I had similar effects 3-4 days after the first dose, which I thought was a cold. I had not associated it with the vaccine because the reaction was delayed a few days. If I had to describe it, I would say it is similar to a mild flu.


It will be a few months yet before they get around to me. It is good to know what to expect. If you didn't feel any after effects it might make you wonder whether or not the vaccine "took".


----------



## AR1

Cheap at the cost I paid! I have taken care of too many covid patients whose symptoms were far worse, and it didn't stop for weeks. Just thank God I don't work ICU, where we send the ones we think are going to die.


----------



## AR1

It's alive! It was a nice still sunny day so I cracked open the two hives at my dad's farm. I listened with the stethoscope and heard nothing, and the recent snowstorm had completely blocked both entrances, so I wasn't happy. The first was dead, sadly, still with plenty of sugar and a bit of honey left, The second looks good, lots of very active bees. I even got a sting! So I took the remaining sugar block from the dead one and put it in the live one. 

It has been a fairly mild, dry winter so far. Only a few days under zero F, and that only for part of the day. Not very many days even under 10 degrees.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> It has been a fairly mild, dry winter so far.


Same here, AR1. How are the colonies at your home yard faring?


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Same here, AR1. How are the colonies at your home yard faring?


Hard to say. It has been cold enough that I have not opened them recently. I suspect one is dead and one alive. I am hoping for a day above freezing so I can check them. I see the weather forecast is for temps above freezing on Thursday so I may get in then. After that temps are supposed to drop to -16 (-26C) on Friday and stay below zero for several days. This will be the first really cold weather we have had this winter. I think it got down to zero (-17C) one night a few weeks ago.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> This will be the first really cold weather we have had this winter.


Looks like all of us in the Midwest and Midsouth are going to get hit with this cold snap. Might last long enough for the pond to ice over and get a little skating in...


----------



## AR1

Back yard bees gone! One looked like it had a good size population, but it appears they were trying to protect brood and got trapped away from their stores and starved. The other not sure about. Dead bees piled at the front, and only a small cluster at the back of the hive. Too much cold air flow? No signs of wrinkled wings, but I did see a few dead mites here and there, and a few hive beetles.

Both had honey stores left, and both had been eating the sugar blocks. Down to one live one.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Down to one live one.


I am sorry to read this, AR1. I know it is disappointing to lose them...

I do hope your remaining colony pulls through and you have something to work from this Spring.

Have a great evening. 

Russ


----------



## AR1

I got a few pounds of honey off them, so that's nice. 

The traps will be out. I plan to use oxalic acid this spring.


----------



## AR1

I think it is time to recap of last year.
I started with 3 live hives and built up via swarms and splits to 12 hives. 2 hives were donated so I was working with 10 hives. 

They had ongoing problems with a laying worker hive that took several tries to requeen with brood frames and queen cells added. It was a net loss because I could have used the same resources to make a clean, healthy split or to have let the donor hives build up stronger. Plan for the future: Let LW hives dwindle while using them to make a bit of honey.

I had a plan last year, to make lots of splits, keep the hives small and full of bees. It worked, but had some downsides. One was excess swarming. Predictable, but I ended up with too many weak hives. Small hives make small swarms that are unable to defend themselves. In the late summer and fall the yellow jackets decimated one hive after another.

Plan in 2020 was to do treatment free but to have long brood breaks and drone culling to control mites. I wrote about that in this thread:








How long a brood break is sufficient to break mite cycle


The factor to consider is the drone cycle. From egg to emergence of a drone is 24-25 days. Most mites are in drone brood. Suppose you do a simple split. One half has a queen and all goes on as usual. No mite break. The queenless half however has several different paths. If it must make a queen...




www.beesource.com





While none of my hives showed any signs of being mite bombed, no wrinkled wings, no malformed bees, no larvae being dragged out of the hive, still 9 of 10 hives are dead. Pretty much an expected result for a TF yard every few years. I can blame the yellow jackets, and they were the obvious cause of several hive deaths as well as weakening the remainder. Would treated hives have done better? Two survived the YJ attacks and survived into winter and then died. One had oxalic acid (shop towels) and the other didn't. The one current survivor is in a separate yard that was not molested by YJs.

So, either I am a TF idiot (best bet) or just had bad luck with the yellow jackets last year exacerbated by a plan that left too many hives small and vulnerable.

How about 2021? Assuming the one survives...let it grow until mid May, pull the queen into a nuc and let the main hive produce queen cells, then break those down into nucs. Trap a few swarms...? Go on from there as conditions warrant.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> While none of my hives showed any signs of being mite bombed, no wrinkled wings, no malformed bees, no larvae being dragged out of the hive, still 9 of 10 hives are dead


Pretty much my observation too.
With one exception (my #1) there were no obvious issues.
Of course I posted my mite counts where several units had low enough September mite #s to give me hope - they still died.
Pretty much most units had very viable clusters aroung T-Giving until they abruptly just dropped en mass off around XMas.

I collected good samples from most all hives for wing measurements and post-mortem alcohol washes to see what comes out of that.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Pretty much my observation too.
> With one exception (my #1) there were no obvious issues.
> Of course I posted my mite counts where several units had low enough September mite #s to give me hope - they still died.
> Pretty much most units had very viable clusters aroung T-Giving until they abruptly just dropped en mass off around XMas.
> 
> I collected good samples from most all hives for wing measurements and post-mortem alcohol washes to see what comes out of that.


Mite #s boom as the hive contracts for winter. Maybe that was it. I saw a few mites on the board, but not the large numbers that I have seen in a hive dying of mites. Mites are always a drag on the colony and may be a root cause of death even when it was not the proximate cause.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Mite #s boom as the hive contracts for winter. Maybe that was it. I saw a few mites on the board, but not the large numbers that I have seen in a hive dying of mites. Mites are always a drag on the colony and may be a root cause of death even when it was not the proximate cause.


The local TF breader I talk to regularly says (and he knows what he says) - pretty much everything with late summer mite #s above 2-3% is a walking dead. 
Pretty much what it is.


----------



## AR1

Supposed to hit -21 F (-29C) here in a few days. Snowing now too.

Which makes me wonder how Julani is doing.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Supposed to hit -21 F (-29C) here in a few days. Snowing now too.
> 
> Which makes me wonder how Julani is doing.


Juhani is doing just fine - studying some Russian bees I guess as of recently.


----------



## AR1

Weather report has upped the ante, now predicting -33 F (-36C) for Sunday.

That's just...


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Weather report has upped the ante, now predicting -33 F (-36C) for Sunday.
> 
> That's just...


Where are you seeing -36C?


----------



## Tigger19687

I don't want to live where you all are, N.E. is just perfect thank you very much


----------



## HaplozygousNut

GregV said:


> Where are you seeing -36C?
> 
> 
> View attachment 62002


Hmmm... that's strange. This is what I got on Google for this weeks forecast in Madison, WI. Are you getting the "wind-chill" forecast or the actual temperature forecast? I know a couple years ago a couple people at our Church from near Winnipeg Canada said that they were getting -30s in Winnipeg, and when I checked it was actually -10s the lowest nights... they were looking at the "wind-chill" forecast.


----------



## GregB

HaplozygousNut said:


> Hmmm... that's strange.


Of course, you clearly default to F. 

Well, I default to C.
I default to wunderground.com as my main weather station.
I found it trustworthy as it closely matches what I see on my own thermometer.
Which, btw, matches Google too.


----------



## JWPalmer

Greg, that weather report is exactly the reason the wife and I sold our 43 acres in Crivitz, which we bought while still living in Florida, and stopped going north when we got to Virginia.


----------



## GregB

JWPalmer said:


> Greg, that weather report is exactly the reason the wife and I sold our 43 acres in Crivitz, which we bought while still living in Florida, and stopped going north when we got to Virginia.


LOL
We in fact spent one summer week vacationing in Crivitz, in some cheap resort.
Fine place in summer (considering we can not even swim in our own city lakes anymore - too polluted).
But right now I don't care to drive all way up there to ski or something.
We got plenty of snow as it is right here and now - great skiing.
We are running out of space to put snow away anymore - but this is not unusual.
Why everyone talks of the NE as if something crazy is happening? What is the big deal again?


----------



## AR1

Not sure. That page now doesn't read any where near that low. Did I misread or read the wind chill number?


----------



## cfalls

I somewhat doubt yellow jackets were the main or root cause of your losses. I could be wrong, but I think strong healthy colonies usually defend themselves against yellow jackets just fine. The colonies may have already been weakened by something invisible -- viruses, bacteria, nosema, tracheal mites, or even pesticides (unlikely). It's unfortunate that our honeybee's biggest problems are caused by their smallest pathogens, often leaving us guessing which was to blame.

If you'd like to get a better idea, you could send a sample to the Bee Lab in Beltsville, MD. They can't tell whether it was yellow jackets or not, but they can at least rule out a few of the more common suspects.

Anyway, better luck next time.


----------



## AR1

cfalls said:


> I somewhat doubt yellow jackets were the main or root cause of your losses. I could be wrong, but I think strong healthy colonies usually defend themselves against yellow jackets just fine. The colonies may have already been weakened by something invisible -- viruses, bacteria, nosema, tracheal mites, or even pesticides (unlikely). It's unfortunate that our honeybee's biggest problems are caused by their smallest pathogens, often leaving us guessing which was to blame.
> 
> If you'd like to get a better idea, you could send a sample to the Bee Lab in Beltsville, MD. They can't tell whether it was yellow jackets or not, but they can at least rule out a few of the more common suspects.
> 
> Anyway, better luck next time.


Yes. They were weakened by excessive splitting and swarming into too small colonies. The first hive to be attacked was one that had been weak all year. It was a laying worker hive I tried to save. It did eventually get a queen, but never really built up well. The yellow jackets pestered that hive to the point I had to close it up completely. From there they moved from one hive to the next. 

I noted that yellow jackets attack early on cold mornings when the guard bees are very sluggish. I watched the YJs grabbing and killing guard bees. After that they were able to simply walk into the hives unopposed. When I opened the dead colonies I found quite a few dead YJs on the floors, so the bees were killing some inside the colonies as well as fighting at the entrances.


----------



## AR1

Weather has been in the 30-low 40s the last few days, a welcome change. I peeked into my last hive and it appears bustling. They will need a sugar cake soon.

Had lunch with my 91-year-old dad and his cute, younger girlfriend (she is 85). They both mentioned that their fathers had had bees.


----------



## JWPalmer

GregV said:


> LOL
> We in fact spent one summer week vacationing in Crivitz, in some cheap resort.
> Fine place in summer (considering we can not even swim in our own city lakes anymore - too polluted).


I hear ya. FYI, Shaffer's Park closed a few years ago and the property I think has been sold. The wife's family has been having their family reunion there for several years and the closing caused some problems for us. Peshtigo River is still fun to raft when the flowage is open. Her Grandpa's farm was on the river just south of town. Our property was by the airport.


----------



## AR1

40s today and bees were flying. Nice to see. I put a sugar block on top.


----------



## AR1

High 40s but no bees flying. Popped the top and saw them under the sugar block. 
25th anniversary yesterday.
'Planted' lettuce today. It's way too early, but it'll sprout and frost won't kill it. I've had young lettuce sprouts survive under the snow all winter. I don't bother making a perfect bed for lettuce any more, it doesn't need it. I just take last year's seeds and scatter them over the soil surface. Don't even rake them in. The problem is usually too many grow so I spend more time pulling excess lettuce sprouts.
Scattered some tobacco seeds around too. Frost will kill tobacco, but enough will survive.
Weather is supposed to be in the 50s today!


----------



## gww

AR1
Sounds a lot like my last few days except I have not spread any of the tobbaco seed you sent me yet. Good to hear how you handle it. My wife has been in the garden for the last two day. My bees are flying and I am about 20 degrees higher than you and maple is in bloom. I did bait my traps already.
Good luck this year.
Cheers
gww


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> 25th anniversary yesterday.


Congratulations on the anniversary, AR1. Quite a milestone. Here's to 25 more.


----------



## AR1

60s today and bees were flying. Quite a bit of pollen coming in which surprised me. Dark yellow, almost orange, and light yellow. I am guessing maple, elm, or willow. The willow in my back yard is not flowering yet, but possibly the willows by the creek a half-mile away are. Very happy to see pollen coming with all that implies about a laying queen present. Wish I knew what plant it is, so I could post it on the 'Post your bloom dates' forum. I should take an amble in the woods and see if I can't find out.

Funny, there was a lot of sugar being hauled out of the hive from the lower entrance. What was funny was it looked like other bees were harvesting it and taking it back inside.

Spent much of the day splitting and stacking firewood from the oak that went down at my dad's last fall. I have about 2 years supply laid up now, with about one pickup load left to collect and haul.


----------



## AR1

Annnnd...now it is 32 degrees with 2 inches of snow on the ground. Next few days are supposed to be chilly with low temps a few degrees under freezing. I decided to leave the top insulation on later this year. Last year I think I took it off too early and slowed down growth in the weaker hives.


----------



## AR1

By the way, if you want tobacco seeds let me know, I can mail it.


----------



## AR1

Latest task is using my belt sander to trim the outside edges of some of my boxes. When I built them I controlled for the inside space, but not the outside, so they are of somewhat different widths and lengths depending on my source for the wood. I built most of my telescoping tops a little oversize knowing this, and they fit fine, but I also purchased a few from a carpenter, who used exact measurements. Those don't fit some of my wider boxes. 

The thicker wood I got from an old barn, built over 100 years ago. It is some very heavy, hard type of pine, and is a true one inch thick.

Garden is started. Lettuce, rocket, onions and shallots sprouting outside, and tobacco inside. Weather prediction for this week is high 20s to high 50s. Bees were flying yesterday when I checked. Temp was 40 at that time.


----------



## gww

Before I got a planer, I built the same with only worrying about inside. Even some to the tops I built only fit some hives though I compensated for most of them. It is easier to use standard 3/4 inch boards and speeds up the process cause you don't have to deal with math and building one off and can put permanent marks down for cut off boards.
The bees don't seem to care though.
Cheers
gww


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> When I built them I controlled for the inside space, but not the outside, so they are of somewhat different widths and lengths depending on my source for the wood.


Similarly, this is one of my big gripes about 8-frame equipment- even when you buy equipment you can still have a similar problem. Hopefully you are able to get all you stuff close enough to make it completely interchangeable. I can imagine it would be frustrating to come in need of a telescoping top in a pinch only to find it doesn't fit.


----------



## AR1

No, the bees don't care. I do like the sturdiness of the 1 inch boards though. When I ran out of telescoping tops I just used flat pieces of plywood. With a weight on top they worked fine.

I have not seen a single bee flying yet that was not in front of my own hive.


----------



## AR1

Deep dive into youtube 'how to trap yellowjackets' videos tonight.


----------



## AR1

In the 50s-60 today and the bees are flying. Lots of pollen. I put three boxes of frames out for them to clean up the bits and drabs of honey. They seemed to like it.


----------



## AR1

Nice Easter, visited family for the first time in a year. Most of us have been vaccinated by now. Picked up a dead out hive from my niece. It had plenty of honey so I gave a frame to the kids and took the rest home to feed my bees. I'll just let them clean it out.

Next nice day I am cracking open my lone living hive for an inspection.


----------



## AR1

Yellow jacket trap I will make tonight.

Opened the hive top yesterday morning. They look okay. No signs of wing problems, active movements. Cloudy and rainy so little outside activity. They are still interested in the sugar cake. Not great numbers, three seams of bees. No drones noted. I did not pull frames, not wanting to disturb brooding. With the amount of pollen going in I am sure there is brood. I left the insulation on top to help keep the brood going.

This is a messed up hive. It was a late swarm last summer and I had very little equipment so I used my last two medium boxes and my last few remaining frames, some deep and some medium, so there is weird comb hanging off the bottoms of all the frames. Not sure how I am going to correct this without destroying lots of bees and brood. I may just put a deep on top and wait for them to start some brood up there and then make a split with it. At least that way I will have a second hive in case things go wrong rehiving this one into proper equipment.Mid May when swarm season is approaching?

Weather report is cool and rainy this whole next week with possibilities for snow one night, lows right at freezing, highs in the 50s.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Not sure how I am going to correct this without destroying lots of bees and brood.


I enjoy watching FBM videos- he has a lot of resourceful hacks that he has come up with over the years, and I like how he seems to have a knack for making do with whatever he has laying-around. Reminds me a lot of the folks I knew growing up who lived through the Great Depression.

I'm not sure what your short-range goals are, but I suppose one thing you could consider doing with your wonky comb once the weather is reliably warm in your area is plan on laying eyes on the queen and move these boxes systematically up above a queen excluder and then plan on harvesting them as supers later in the year. That way you could C/S the odd bits at the bottom and then run the frames through your extractor. Just one thought...


----------



## AR1

Short range goal is to make a couple of splits.


----------



## JWPalmer

You can make splits with the medium frames with the extra comb hanging off the bottom. I have several frames that look lile that. All the brood will have emerged before the queen is mated. You can remove them a week after she emerges and clean them up.


----------



## AR1

JWPalmer said:


> You can make splits with the medium frames with the extra comb hanging off the bottom. I have several frames that look lile that. All the brood will have emerged before the queen is mated. You can remove them a week after she emerges and clean them up.


It's not just hanging off the bottom. It's hanging off and wonky shapes. so they won't be easy to pull out the normal way. What I am thinking is to take the whole unit, two mediums, and tip it upside down, lay it flat on it's back and then take off the medium that is now on top. That will let me slice the wonky parts off and maybe rubber band them into new frames if they have enough brood in them to be worth saving.


----------



## AR1

Crushed and strained a few pounds of honey yesterday, from tag ends of dead hives. Surprised that over half of the honey was completely crystallized in the comb. Never had much of that before. Can the bees even eat that stuff? 

Cold and rainy. Planned to burn a brushpile on the garden. Nope. Too wet. Did harvest the first garden greens though, nice addition to the diet.


----------



## AR1

Hive is building up. 3 seams of bees last time I checked, now 4 good seams and expanding into the outer frames.

Chilly here. It was 49 degrees when I checked them and a few bees were flying but not large numbers. There is plenty of natural nectar, and the bees are ignoring the remains of the sugar block, no bees at all on it. Also appear to be ignoring the deadout hives which still have quite a bit of honey in them. Weather report for the coming week is chilly in the low thirties with snow predicted for several days and no days in the 60s until late in the week. I am impatiently waiting for the opportunity to put another hive body on top.

Feeling sad that Mr Palmer will not be commenting on this thread, given the good advice and encouragement he had often given me here.


----------



## AR1

Sunny and chilly today, a good day to mow the lawn, first time this year. I also murdered dandelions in the front yard. Wife hates them. The back yard remains a bee haven, lots of yellow blooms and violets. A few peach blossoms, plum in full bloom, and apples look ready to pop in a few days. We never did get the predicted snow and the frost was very mild this morning. Weather report remains cool with a few wet days coming up, but predicts 80 degrees on April 27th. I'll believe that when it happens. We are 2 weeks earlier than last year on most blooms, but pretty close to on target compared to other years.


----------



## AR1

Got the garden planted too. Mostly wildflowers, my daughter gave me seeds for Christmas, and some lettuce, greens and parsley. I also scattered tobacco seeds in with the flowers.


----------



## AR1

First litter of kittens (outdoor barn cats), and first bumble bee of the season seen yesterday. 
Bees appear active and lots of pollen going in. Some of the bees appear dopey and there was a handful of dead bees on the ground. Local farmers applying insecticide? Hopefully not a big problem but I am checking them again today.

Still have not seen a single honey bee anywhere but in front of my own hive. Not a one on any of the flowers in my back yard and no activity in my deadout hives, which have some leftover honey in them. One month from expected swarm season...


----------



## AR1

Cool today low 50s but bees active, lots of pollen. Did not open the hive. It's supposed to get up to 70s tomorrow and 80s the next day, so will peek in then.
Pretty beat. Last three days spent chain sawing, splitting by hand, loading, hauling, unloading and stacking firewood. Got about 2 years worth stacked in the back yard. If gas prices go through the roof (as I expect) we at least won't freeze. 

I am also expecting a big stock market 'correction' as they call it, or a bust as we folks call it, and a lot of inflation, probably this year, devolving into 1970s style stagflation (if we are lucky). We already have 1960s style street riots and cities burning, so why not the rest of the package? Blame Trump, the Repubs, Biden and the Dems, even-handedly.


----------



## AR1

I went through the Post your bloom dates forum for Illinois. I have been posting there off and on since 2017. Wish now I had made it a habit. It looks like swarms start 1-2 weeks after wild raspberry blooms here.

I saw my first honeybee of the season today that was not from my hive. I have seen no bees on my apple, peach or plum flowers or on the dandelions.


----------



## AR1

85 degrees! Nice to switch to iced tea. Bees in my garage, checking out the old comb. No action in my swarm traps yet. Swarms here start late May, but this year has been running earlier than last year according to the bloom. Hoping for warm weather and lots of swarms!

Bees in my sole hive look happy, very actively collecting pollen and slowly expanding into the frames. No drones yet.

I pulled out a few frames on the sides that are not yet in use and saw a mess. It appears that the bees at some point decided that simply building comb along the bottoms of the frames wasn't stylish enough, so they are putting up neat rows of comb at a 90 degree angle off the bottom edges. I hope to split around May 15th, and will try to get all the bees hived into correctly fitting boxes. Not looking forward to the mess of cutting the weird comb out and rubber banding it into frames.


----------



## AR1

Simple approaches for environmental and mechanical management of the Varroa mite, Varroa destructor Anderson and Trueman (Parasitiformes: Varroidae), on the honey bee, Apis mellifera L. (Hymenoptera: Apidae) in Egypt - Egyptian Journal of Biological Pest Control


Background Varroa mite, Varroa destructor Anderson and Trueman (Parasitiformes: Varroidae), is an ectoparasitic mite of the honey bee, Apis mellifera L. (Hymenoptera: Apidae), with a great economic importance. It is the major deadlock of apiculture development all over the world. Results This...




link.springer.com





Interesting article suggesting that enforced darkness, keeping bees a few days in a dark room, increases grooming and reduces mite levels.


----------



## AR1

Another using tobacco smoke which they claim helps. Unfortunately just the abstract so no details.





How to access research remotely


How to access research remotely




www.cabdirect.org


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

AR1 said:


> I pulled out a few frames on the sides that are not yet in use and saw a mess. It appears that the bees at some point decided that simply building comb along the bottoms of the frames wasn't stylish enough, so they are putting up neat rows of comb at a 90 degree angle off the bottom edges.


Little buggers. I spent some time last week scraping frames down to the foundation because they they made funky rows all down it, long parallel mounds.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Interesting article suggesting that enforced darkness, keeping bees a few days in a dark room, increases grooming and reduces mite levels.


AR1:

This is an interesting study- it reminded me of Kefuss' early work on photoperiod influencing flight activity and brood rearing- seems logical it would impact other hive activities (including grooming) as well:

The Influence of Photoperiod on the Flight Activity of Honeybees (1970)
Influence of Photoperiod on the Behaviour and Brood-Rearing Activities of Honeybees in a Flight Room (1978)


----------



## AR1

Got out a couple of swarm traps, one a 5 frame and one a deep with a medium on top, filled with used frames, and a drop of lemon grass in each. Along with my dead outs that makes 5 traps in my yard and on my porch. Still have not seen one drone in my hive, but the weather is 60s to 80 daytimes, 40s-50s at night. Need to bait a few at my dad's woods.

So far my yellow jacket traps have caught zero. I dumped them out and will try rebaiting.


----------



## AR1

Yellow Jacket trap still zero. Is it possible that something I read on the internet is untrue? Unpossible!

I tipped my hive over to get a look at the underside. No queen cells yet, and still not seeing any drones. Swarm season is not here yet. But the bees look good. They are in 2 mediums and appear to be filling 8 medium frames on the lower box and 5 on the upper. No smoke, and they barely responded to being tipped over. A few buzzed me hard but none attempted to sting.

Put out 2 swarm traps at dad's farm, at the edge of the woods about 100 yards from my hive. Plus there are two deadouts in the yard, so plenty of opportunities. I should put at least one more on the far side of the woods.


----------



## gww

ar1
You have enough traps on your property. You should remove one or two and find some relative or some one who is a couple of miles away from you to bug to let you put one up on them. The places I put more then one trap all traps seem to get looked at till one is finally picked by the bees. My opinion is spreading them thinner offers more opportunity. Don't get my wrong, I have several places where I have more then one trap cause I had more traps then places to put them. Good luck with your trapping.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> ar1
> You have enough traps on your property. You should remove one or two and find some relative or some one who is a couple of miles away from you to bug to let you put one up on them. The places I put more then one trap all traps seem to get looked at till one is finally picked by the bees. My opinion is spreading them thinner offers more opportunity. Don't get my wrong, I have several places where I have more then one trap cause I had more traps then places to put them. Good luck with your trapping.
> Cheers
> gww


Mainly, I am lazy and also antisocial. I know there are too many traps in my back yard... I don't like talking to people to get permission to place traps. I have considered putting them on the edges of some local forest preserves and along roads, probably my best bet. But I'd have to paint them some obscure colors. They are all red or blue or yellow now.


----------



## gww

Ar1
The benefit of it being on other places is they can call if they see a bee at the entrance then you can just bait when you drive by or are in the area and so fewer trips. However, I doubt you are more anti social then me. I talk well and probably too much when around people but feel no compunction to make an effort to be around any one and mostly just stay home. I do this to extreme compared to anyone I know.

I also have the same independent streak to extreme and it is one of the reasons I did not treat to begin with and went foundationless. I could do everything except the lemon grass oil on my own involving no one and buying nothing.

I was not being bossy but trying to help with ideals which I am sure you have thought of already and in fact your response triggers something in my memory that I might have already had this discussion with you.
Good luck this year. Plus, Thanks again for the tobacco seed which I still have not spread cause I have not worked up any ground with a tiller yet.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Ar1
> The benefit of it being on other places is they can call if they see a bee at the entrance then you can just bait when you drive by or are in the area and so fewer trips. However, I doubt you are more anti social then me. I talk well and probably too much when around people but feel no compunction to make an effort to be around any one and mostly just stay home. I do this to extreme compared to anyone I know.
> 
> I also have the same independent streak to extreme and it is one of the reasons I did not treat to begin with and went foundationless. I could do everything except the lemon grass oil on my own involving no one and buying nothing.
> 
> I was not being bossy but trying to help with ideals which I am sure you have thought of already and in fact your response triggers something in my memory that I might have already had this discussion with you.
> Good luck this year. Plus, Thanks again for the tobacco seed which I still have not spread cause I have not worked up any ground with a tiller yet.
> Cheers
> gww


Thanks. No need to apologize for anything, nothing sounded bossy, just good advice.

Tobacco doesn't particularly need tilled dirt. Any bare patch will do. Or a pot with some dirt. Just sprinkle the seeds on top and water occasionally, or leave outdoors for rain.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> So far my yellow jacket traps have caught zero. I dumped them out and will try rebaiting.


I am never concerned of wasps and YJs at this time a year.
Remember - there are only single queens of these species at the moment.
A single queen can never prevent a swarm bees from entering and can not chase away scouts.
Maybe in about a month from today.
But regardless I never had issues; maybe once in all my trapping I tossed a little wasp nest.

If anything, I get invaded by black forest ants in some spots.


----------



## gww

I have about ten empty hives sitting around. I get tons of what I think are red wolf wasp. Could be wrong on the name but what I am not wrong on is that they do take a bee here and their and the wasp always wins. They sit at the entrance of the hive and remind me of a video I saw of the asian hornet. The bees don't pay too much mind to them and sorta dodge them but the wasp will still get some. When they get to the point where they start intimidating me, I take a little squirt bottle with some dish soap and water and take a few of them out. Works pretty good when it is a little cooler and they gather a bit on the out side of the entrance of the hive body they live in. Never get them all but knock them back a bit and it makes me feel better.

I have seen scouts check out traps that the wasp are in and you will see the same dodging behavior by the bee and the wasp will try and grab them going by but it does not stop the bees from looking. 

I had a bunch of yellow jackets build a nest in the gap in the roof of my warre hive. On that one, I waited till cold weather and then flipped the top where they were exposed more to the atmosphere. They have not rebuilt thankfully.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

Did I time travel back 2 months? Frost warning for tonight. High temps in the 50s for the next several days. Fire in the fireplace, wool socks, stocking cap and hoodie.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Did I time travel back 2 months? Frost warning for tonight. High temps in the 50s for the next several days. Fire in the fireplace, wool socks, stocking cap and hoodie.


Heck, most every day it is just too cold to enjoy working outdoors. 
It is doable, but it is NOT enjoyable. 
Maybe good for the swarm buildup though! ..........(IF you on the catching side, LOL!)


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Heck, most every day it is just too cold to enjoy working outdoors.
> LOL!)


Yes, but you live in the frigid north country, whereas I live in the sunny south.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Did I time travel back 2 months?


It looks like for the first time in awhile we in the Midwest and Upper South are getting to enjoy a protracted spring. I for one am glad to avoid temperatures in the 90's for a few more weeks.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> It looks like for the first time in awhile we in the Midwest and Upper South are getting to enjoy a protracted spring. I for one am glad to avoid temperatures in the 90's for a few more weeks.


I like heat, but am getting too old to enjoy chill. 90 is Okay.


----------



## AR1

May 9th and have started burning NEXT year's firewood. May need to update my expected usage. Debating turning the furnace back on.

On the plus side, the green veggies I seeded last fall are doing great and lots of garden veggies, lettuce way beyond our needs, rocket/arugula, chives, asparagus. We counted 8 varieties of home grown veggies in yesterday's dinner. Time to cut rhubarb.


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

AR1 said:


> May 9th and have started burning NEXT year's firewood. May need to update my expected usage. Debating turning the furnace back on.


Yeah, I had to put some fire in the stove this weekend too.

I like it hot...on the other hand, I'm in the middle of replacing the front wheel bearing hubs in a Grand Cherokee and sweating my tail off doing it so maybe it's better if it stays cool for a bit. It's an '02 and they used some kind of stupid splined bolts that may have seemed cool at the time, but after 20 years of rusting they have turned to feces. I ruined one before I got the idea to use an impact socket one size smaller than what it is and drive it on with a 4lb mini-sledge. Took me hours to grind the ruined one off with a stone.

And, of course, I had to buy a new set of spline sockets that it took hours to find when my usual automotive supply shop that services all of the garages around here didn't have any...and they will probably only get used just this one time. I'm glad I have air tools, it would really be a horror show without them.


----------



## AR1

Drones in the hive today! Saw several when popped the top. None flying yet that I saw, but it means split time is approaching fast. I put a medium on top, the first I have had to add. Lots of pollen going in, it looked like almost every second bee was carrying large pollen loads. Bees appear healthy and active, no deranged wings and so far this year no mites seen, but not alcohol washed yet. Looking forward to pulling some frames and looking at drone brood for mites.

Weather is supposed to remain cool for several days, max 60 with possible frost at night. So I left the insulation box on top.

About once a week my wife asks when I am bringing a hive back to our house. I think she misses them, though she has no interest in helping work them.


----------



## AR1

EurekAlert! Science News Service from AAAS


EurekAlert! is an online science news service featuring health, medicine, science and technology news from leading research institutions and universities. Sponsored by AAAS, the science society.



www.eurekalert.org





Old honey pot


----------



## gww

ar1
Do tobacco got to seed yearly for saving seed. I know I could google but have an expert at hand that I trust more in you.
Thanks
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> ar1
> Do tobacco got to seed yearly for saving seed. I know I could google but have an expert at hand that I trust more in you.
> Thanks
> gww


I have used seed that was several years old without problem. It makes so many seeds that even if germination is poor there always seem to some that are good. It is still early, so if you have not seeded it yet no problem. I planted some last year in June and it was Okay.


----------



## gww

Will I for sure get more seed in the same year I plant?
Thanks
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Will I for sure get more seed in the same year I plant?
> Thanks
> gww


Yes. It's an annual.


----------



## gww

Ar1
Thanks. I broadcast some on the edge of a flower garden today. I did not water but it is supposed to rain day after tomorrow. Your answer just means I can be more generous with the seeds you give me and not worry so much about saving as much.
Thanks again.
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Ar1
> Thanks. I broadcast some on the edge of a flower garden today. I did not water but it is supposed to rain day after tomorrow. Your answer just means I can be more generous with the seeds you give me and not worry so much about saving as much.
> Thanks again.
> gww


If it doesn't work this year I'll mail you some more. Sure no shortage of seeds! One thing to look out for is tobacco is very slow to sprout and remains tiny for weeks, so you may not think anything is happening for a long time. Weeds can take it over. Once tobacco starts growing though it is very tough and grows fast. Easy to transplant, just pull it up and plant where you want it.


----------



## AR1

It's 0300 and I am at work, it's a bit slow tonight. Thinking about this AM, I plan to tip my hive back and look for queen cells later this morning.


----------



## AR1

Hive looks good, very active and storing a bit of nectar in the new medium overhead. Tipped it on it's side, no queen cells.

Corn in the garden starting to sprout, and potatoes. It needs a rain and few days of heat.


----------



## AR1

Drove to Champaign Il today to attend my daughter's graduation. 3 down (daughter #1, me, daughter #2), one to go (daughter #1's MS degree later this summer). Daughter #2 got a job in Iowa promoting farmer's markets. I told her to hire me as a consultant!


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I told her to hire me as a consultant!


That would be a good move- congratulations to your daughter.


----------



## AR1

Visited the bees yesterday. They look good, healthy and active. They are moving up into the new box and building comb and storing nectar. No eggs or brood up top yet. I tipped the hive over to look from below. Lots of bees but no signs of queen cells. Not time to split yet; I want that top box packed with bees. The number of drones is increasing. The drones are very dark, mostly black, while the workers are a dark yellow. Lighter color than I recall from the sister hives last year.

A disappointment in the garden. None of the watermelons have sprouted. I replanted a long row. Other stuff is coming up, potatoes, okra, carrots, several varieties of corn, cantaloupe several varieties, bush and climbing beans, zucchini, etc. Most of the seed is from plants I have been growing back from saved seed for years. 

I did plant some purchased seeds, some new sweetcorn and popcorn varieties, and the germination isn't very good in the bought seed. The new cantaloupe varieties are a particular disappointment, as only a couple have popped up yet, while my saved seeds are doing very well (except the watermelon).

A nice walk in the woods. None of the traps show any activity yet, but I did spot some bees working the flowers. Collected a few mulberry branches to make replacement shovel handles. I seem to break a shovel handle every year.


----------



## gww

Most of the wife's stuff is up and growing. Have sweet potatoes in the kitchen window but not in the garden yet.
Have not got the ground worked up yet. Me and the wife both independently scattered random seed in the same place independent of each other with mine being tobacco and so now I need to let all the stuff grow long enough for me to tell which plants are tobacco.  

Cheers
gww


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Collected a few mulberry branches to make replacement shovel handles. I seem to break a shovel handle every year.


I'm curious AR1- why mulberry?

I would have assumed hickory or hornbeam.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> I'm curious AR1- why mulberry?
> 
> I would have assumed hickory or hornbeam.


Hickory is fairly rare in our woods, so I leave them be. Hornbeam is nearly non-existent. I have seen ironwood occasionally. Mulberry is a very tough, flexible wood and has the advantage that it is a weed. I could cut it all day and never hurt the population. Also it makes nice long smooth branches that require minimal trimming.

Back when I was making bows, I used hickory and mulberry and elm. All work fine. I also use hackberry. I didn't happen to spot any good elms, but I did get one hackberry (another weed).


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Most of the wife's stuff is up and growing. Have sweet potatoes in the kitchen window but not in the garden yet.
> Have not got the ground worked up yet. Me and the wife both independently scattered random seed in the same place independent of each other with mine being tobacco and so now I need to let all the stuff grow long enough for me to tell which plants are tobacco.
> 
> Cheers
> gww


Tobacco will be the last to sprout! And it will stay tiny for a few weeks after that.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Mulberry is a very tough, flexible wood and has the advantage that it is a weed. I could cut it all day and never hurt the population. Also it makes nice long smooth branches that require minimal trimming.


Makes sense- I just wondered if I was missing out on a forest secret. Sounds like you are making the best of an abundant resource.

Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## AR1

Long day yesterday. 12 hours at work then a 4-hour training class. Pretty beat but too wired on coffee to sleep so I stopped by to see the bees. They are moving up strongly into the new medium, lots of new comb and nectar stored, even a little capped already. Lots of dark gray and black colored drones. 

No signs of eggs in the top box. I can add another super any time now at this rate. I'll probably go back today and peek under the hive looking for queen cells, and add that new top box. They appear very healthy, active, bright and shiny, good wings.

Still no activity at any of the bait hives. We are approaching the main swarm season, and I would expect scouts by now.

In other news, the garden looks good, lots of new sprouts. Watermelons have finally decided to sprout, and also a few of the cantaloupes that I had almost given up hope on. The warm, dry weather is helping.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Still no activity at any of the bait hives. We are approaching the main swarm season, and I would expect scouts by now.


I had very heavy scouting yesterday in the back - and the darn thing did not come. Stupid fools! LOL
Cold and rainy for the next two days.
So now I hope they make up their minds by the weekend already and just show up with the suitcases on Saturday morning.


----------



## AR1

Took a peek again today. Looks nice. Decided not to add another box just yet. The brood box still has some unused frames and the super also has several. Did not tip to look for queen cells. Cool and very windy today (wool socks back on) so I decided to leave them alone.

Replanted sweet corn. Very poor germination in the purchased seed, so I overplanted the rows with my own saved seed. Also put in some Indian corn. Other stuff looks Okay. Deer nibbling some things. Saw some tobacco sprouts.


----------



## AR1

It's late May for Pete's sake! What's with this 'patchy frost' and 'lows in the 30s' Shinola?
Of course I took the insulation off earlier this week...

Drove down to Champaign today and it was 40s the whole way. I think the highest temp I saw today was 54.



*TONIGHT*
Cloudy early in the evening then becoming partly cloudy in the late evening and early morning then becoming mostly clear. A 30 percent chance of *showers* in the evening. Patchy frost after midnight. Lows in the mid 30s. North winds 10 to 20 mph. Gusts up to 35 mph in the evening.​*SATURDAY*
Sunny. Patchy frost in the morning. Highs in the mid 60s. Northeast winds 10 to 20 mph.​*SATURDAY NIGHT*
Clear. Lows in the upper 30s. Northeast winds 5 to 10 mph.​*SUNDAY*
Mostly sunny in the morning then becoming partly cloudy. Highs around 70. East winds around 5 mph in the morning shifting to the southwest in the afternoon.​*SUNDAY NIGHT*
Mostly cloudy. Lows in the upper 40s. Southwest winds around 5 mph.​*MEMORIAL DAY*
Mostly cloudy. Highs in the lower 70s.​*MONDAY NIGHT*
Partly cloudy. Lows in the lower 50s.​


----------



## AR1

Starting to see a few bees in the garden. Been very rare this year. They are browsing the onion flowers and ignoring the clover. Nothing on the swarm traps but ants.


----------



## AR1

Visited the farm today. 70 degrees and clear skies. Bees look good, actively moving up into super, making comb across the box on most frames except the outer two on one side. Heavy with nectar and a little capped honey. Quite a lot of new unfilled comb so I didn't add a second super. Some of the frames were completely used up for nectar storage, but a few of the frames had center arcs of unfilled cells that may be intended for future egg laying.

Tipped the brood chamber over to look at the underside. No queen cells evident, but quite a lot of drone comb. I cut out a chunk of drone comb about 4" X 4". This was quite mature, with drones actively chewing their way out of some of the cells. 

I opened all available drone cells (about 50) and a dozen or so worker brood. I found one dead drone that appeared nearly mature. He was wingless, but no mites were in his cell. All of the remaining brood appeared healthy and not a single mite! This was quite gratifying. I have not seen a single worker bee with distorted wings this year, nor a single mite.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> No queen cells evident, but quite a lot of drone comb.


Sounds like you're about to be off to the races- best of success to you in this swarm/expansion period.

Russ


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Sounds like you're about to be off to the races- best of success to you in this swarm/expansion period.
> 
> Russ


Thanks. I hope so!


----------



## AR1

Drones flying a lot today. Just yesterday I saw no drones flying. Aggressive today too, several dive-bombed me repeatedly, unusual behavior for this colony. 

Transplanted a half-dozen tomatoes.


----------



## AR1

Several queen cups, but no larvae in them that I could tell, but it's a start. Also a tiny patch of brood in the upper medium. It wasn't enough that I would make a split off it, but good to see. I anticipate splitting soon.

I added a medium, mostly with drawn or partially drawn comb. I put it under the top medium, hopefully to encourage them to start using it sooner. If I'm lucky there will be some brood there and splitting will be easy. The top medium is nearly full of nectar except the very outer frames, and they are building comb on those. A small bit of capped honey.

I cut off some chunks of drone comb again. This time I did spot some mites, but the vast majority of the drone brood was clean. No mites on the small bit of worker brood, but it was only 20 or so cells. I got to watch a mite running around on comb can catch a ride on a drone. Slick. Poor boy got smushed along with his rider.


----------



## AR1

It's getting really dry, to the point the corn leaves are curling. Weather report says rain the next few days, but they have been wrong the last few times they said that. Garden needs a few good rains.


----------



## AR1

My niece's kid, with his first bees. Apparently his grandpa set him up. I'd like to meet the guy, sounds like a good grandpa.


----------



## AR1

2 days ago I added a medium into the middle of the stack. They are already filling some frames with nectar and building new comb! While continuing to work the top box. Pretty happy, especially considering the very dry weather.

Even happier, tipped the bottom over and found two queen cells with larvae inside. I can see a few more cells but can't tell if they are filled. Plan is to let them get capped then split.

Put a swarm trap out along a power company access road. This road is also a public hiking trail. And there are beehives nearby. This is prime swarm season around here so I am hopeful. The trap is disguised...visible if you know right where to look but invisible otherwise. A frame of comb and lemongrass oil. Looks like if I got off my backside and made some traps there are many places I could put them.

Thinking about building vertically oriented traps rather than horizontal. Easier to hang from trees.


----------



## gww

ar1
I have no doubt that you have made many more splits then me but I would be pulling that queen and some bees now and let the rest finish the cells. No sense in letting her leave.
Good news and good luck. 
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> ar1
> I have no doubt that you have made many more splits then me but I would be pulling that queen and some bees now and let the rest finish the cells. No sense in letting her leave.
> Good news and good luck.
> Cheers
> gww


That's the rub. I would like to pull that queen, but unfortunately it would be difficult to do without risking harm. That hive was from a late swarm that went into whatever equipment I could find, so it has mixed deep and medium frames which the bees decided to completely cross comb together, in two mediums. 

So my only safe hope is that the queen starts laying up top, which she has a little. If I could actually find her in the top two boxes that would be easiest, I could simply isolate her into a nuc with a few loaded frames and then split the remainder. So far I have not seen her once this year.

Second chance is to cut out some queen cells and use them to make a split with the top box. Two of the queen cells look pretty easy to get out.


----------



## gww

I have never had luck with this but you might try smoking from the bottom hard enough to try and run her up and use no smoke from the top. I am usually so scared of bees that I just smoke everywhere but have had this advised to me in the past.
Good luck
gww


----------



## William Bagwell

AR1 said:


> Thinking about building vertically oriented traps rather than horizontal. Easier to hang from trees.


Start a separate thread for that when you get started please. Have a similar idea bouncing around in my head.


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> I have never had luck with this but you might try smoking from the bottom hard enough to try and run her up and use no smoke from the top. I am usually so scared of bees that I just smoke everywhere but have had this advised to me in the past.
> Good luck
> gww


I think I use too much smoke usually. Yesterday I didn't have my smoker, but I did have a several years old cigar. So I lit that and blew a few puffs across the entrance and on top. That seemed to be plenty, and was way less than 10% of my normal amount of smoke.


----------



## AR1

William Bagwell said:


> Start a separate thread for that when you get started please. Have a similar idea bouncing around in my head.


I am thinking just a box big enough for 6 frames to be fitted in, and a few inches longer than a frame is long, with a riser at the bottom to hold the frames in place.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I think I use too much smoke usually. Yesterday I didn't have my smoker, but I did have a several years old cigar. So I lit that and blew a few puffs across the entrance and on top. That seemed to be plenty, and was way less than 10% of my normal amount of smoke.


Google - "german bee pipe".
You may like it.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Google - "german bee pipe".
> You may like it.


Cute. I'd never buy one but can see the benefit, particularly if you are a non-smoker, as I mostly am. I occasionally smoke a cigar and really enjoy them, but can't stand the aftertaste in my mouth which lasts all day. These days I roll up a few every year from my backyard tobacco plants, but mostly I just enjoy the smell in my bee smoker without actually smoking the cigar myself.


----------



## AR1

William Bagwell said:


> Start a separate thread for that when you get started please. Have a similar idea bouncing around in my head.


If I did that I'd have to take pics and everything. I may do that.

I went ahead and made a swarm trap intended to be placed vertically. It is basically very similar to my 5-frame nucs, except it is one frame wider, and I added 4 inches at the bottom. People tell me that a 5-frame nuc is a bit small for a swarm trap, so I decided to add more space.

It is designed to be used either standing vertically or laying on it's back. I gave it a hinged door which is the front side. To add frames just open the door and slide them in standing upright. There is a spacer 4 inches off the floor, horizontally across lower front to hold the frames in place, and a second spacer at the top, so Langstroth's bee space is mostly maintained. The back is solid and permanently attached.

My plan is to add an eye hook and dangle it from a tree branch, probably with a strap of some sort to hold it against the tree.

I didn't have any decent wood handy, so I used a sheet of 1/2 inch particle board. It's crap. But it was a free discard at the local farm supply store, so the price was right. It was nailed and glued rather than screws as I normally use with my hives. I don't expect it to last long enough to warrant the use of screws. Plan for tomorrow is to paint it and in a few days to set it out.

I found an ideal location, but I wonder about the legality, have to check on that. A new hiking trail park opened up recently about a mile from my home. It's a narrow strip of woods and a creek, and is accessable by car. Very simple to place the trap in a location that is easily seen by one in the know, but invisible to casual passers-by.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I went ahead and made a swarm trap intended to be placed vertically.


What is wrong with a standard Lang box standing on its side (with the frames in vertical orientation)?

Fill it with frames in the normal way and they will stay in there properly.
Here is my storage under the porch - full of "swarm traps" that are standing vertically.










Screw two pieces of plywood/particle board on both side - done.
To open, unscrew the appropriate side.

I have been thinking of setting up nucs/traps this way, but have plenty of my normal equipment to bother with it.
Should work for the bee trapping just as well.
One of the benefits - installing such traps is easier in most ad-hoc locations (because it is narrow vs wide).

Click through this video and see just how flexible is the "narrow" trap vs. the "wide" trap (there are many setups glued together - check out what people have been doing).


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> Click through this video...


Those are some nice dark bees he's trapping. If Google Translate didn't let me down it looks like he's located in Belarus?


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> What is wrong with a standard Lang box standing on its side (with the frames in vertical orientation)?


Awkward shape and configuration.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Awkward shape and configuration.


I don't know until I try.
I want to try even as a proof of the concept.
The one obvious merit - the stuff is already available and only takes some unconventional look at it.
For sure, in the trap configuration you only deal with them once - open the box and transfer frames into your conventional setup if so desired.


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> Those are some nice dark bees he's trapping. If Google Translate didn't let me down it looks like he's located in Belarus?


Yes. Belarus. Lots of dark bees.


----------



## AR1

The first box in that video looks very much like a trap I made, one of the first. I found it annoying to attach to trees, and I don't want to nail boards to trees.


----------



## AR1

After work this morning I visited the bees. 2 capped queen cells hanging down off the lowest comb. No scouts at the traps nearby. A few more uncapped queen cells, but it was hard to see if anything was in them.

Dug out a chunk of drone comb. Saw 2 mites in 80 drone brood. I looked at a lot more, but it got kinda squashed so harder to see. No signs of misshapen or dead drones in the brood.


----------



## AR1

5 bees in the back yard today, one went into a swarm trap...
I did as GregV suggested and put all of my used boxes/frames outside, making a wall of scent and potential homes.
Finished a second swarm trap of the new design. Decided not to waste metal hinges and used a strip of blue jean cloth glued and stapled on as a hinge. That will go out along a creek in a few days.

Stayed home and tended the garden. Rouged out another 20-30 volunteer tomatoes. They are going to work with me tonight. Somebody will want them. That's about 70 plants I have taken in the last week. There are still too many growing. Have to start throwing them away soon. Zucchini same, too many plants. I expect to be eating way too many this summer.

Still no rain.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> 5 bees in the back yard today, one went into a swarm trap...
> I did as GregV suggested and put all of my used boxes/frames outside, making a wall of scent and potential homes.


Here you go!
5 bees is an improvement already over the 3 bees. LOL

In my back pretty much in every trap there are 3-4 bees just sitting there looking out of the holes at me, as if they are permanent dwellers now. 
I don't know what is the scoop and how long this will continue. 
By this time last year I dragged down 3 swarms on the back.


----------



## AR1

Quite a lot more bees today. Looks like cleaning out some old honey.


----------



## AR1

It was fun for a few days, watching the deadout hives finally getting cleaned out. You would have thought there were three bustling hives in my back yard. Now, an occasional bee or two.

Squirrel! In my chimney! I repaired a hole in the siding at the top, to keep the squirrels out. Sadly, it seems one was inside already and now it is banging and scratching like crazy. Pretty sure she will bull her way out soon, and then I'll climb up two stories again and patch it. Again. A few years ago I shot one that was getting inside, and fixed that hole. Must be like swarming bees, maybe just smells like a good place to nest in there.

Bees at dad's looking good. Still with a capped queen cell, looks like a supercedure cell so I am just gonna let it go. One interesting thing, when I tip the hive over to look at the underside, the bottom board is spotlessly clean, not a scrap, not a dead bee, nothing on it. Cleanest bees I have ever had.

Planted a bunch of bitter melon seedlings. Supposed to rain all this week. Hope so, still very dry. Replanted a lot of sweetcorn and beans etc this week too.


----------



## AR1

Look to be picking up 2 hives of bees this week. Not sure exactly what they will be, nucs or full hives. I gave a kid a nuc last year and he is returning the favor. Graduated and going into the Marines this fall and cutting back on his hives. If I understand him, he has my bees, and bought some carnis and Saskatraz, so I'll be getting my bees back and a split from one of his other hives.


----------



## AR1

Stole a frame of capped honey today. Nice, but mild.


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## AR1

Picking up a nuc of Carnies tomorrow morning. Will see if the guy will let go a split of Saz.


----------



## AR1

Got my carnis this morning. They are outside my back door just under my bedroom window. I hope to sleep to the sound of bees. Been missing that this summer. Plan to let them sit a week then rehive into a 10-deep.
Didn't get the Sazkatraz. The hive isn't doing well he tells me.


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## AR1

'Carniolans'. Well, just mutts of course. I looked up pics of carni bees and see bees that look exactly like the ones I have had the last 2 years, with dark brown queens and drones. The bees I just got have light brown to gold drones and the workers are light colored. At that, I know these are a split from a carni hive, so right there even if the original queen was carni, this queen is 50% something...
Not disappointed, had no expectations really. Fun to see and have again. Nice to sit and watch and drink my coffee before going to work.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> 'Carniolans'. Well, just mutts of course. I looked up pics of carni bees and see bees that look exactly like the ones I have had the last 2 years, with dark brown queens and drones. The bees I just got have light brown to gold drones and the workers are light colored. At that, I know these are a split from a carni hive, so right there even if the original queen was carni, this queen is 50% something...
> Not disappointed, had no expectations really. Fun to see and have again. Nice to sit and watch and drink my coffee before going to work.


Carni mixes fair with several races.
so they will likely be fine to excellent.

GG


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Nice to sit and watch and drink my coffee before going to work.


One of my favorite pastimes.


----------



## AR1

Been out of town a few days. Tomorrow will be interesting, open the hives and see who is laying eggs...or not.


----------



## AR1

Opened my new 'Carni' hive. It was in a 5 frame deep. Pop the top and got worried, looked like massive honey. First frame no brood. Second frame 70% capped honey the rest nectar. 3rd frame hurrah, vast amount of perfect capped brood. 4th frame varied age brood. 5th frame building comb and storing nectar.

Had a scare. Queen dropped off a frame onto the lid, and was lying on her side not moving, and a worker was gnawing on her wing! Stunned? I brushed her onto the frames and she immediately dove down between them. Looks Okay...? They have brood to make another but I like the laying pattern. Besides, she is my new queen so therefore loved above the rest.

Now in a ten frame deep. With all the capped brood I figure they will expand into it pretty quickly. Only a few drones in the hive, and I didn't notice any drone brood.


----------



## AR1

So, right at the end of June my hive swarmed, went 50 feet over and entered a hive I had set out. Looked carefully into both hives. The recipient of the swarm has almost no brood, but has two queen cells with larvae in them. Did not see a queen.

The donor hive has zero brood, lots of nectar and honey, and two opened, empty queen cells.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> So, right at the end of June my hive swarmed, went 50 feet over and entered a hive I had set out. Looked carefully into both hives. The recipient of the swarm has almost no brood, but has two queen cells with larvae in them. Did not see a queen.
> 
> The donor hive has zero brood, lots of nectar and honey, and two opened, empty queen cells.


both queens could be virgins, IE the 2 open cells, may need to wait for a bit before you "panic"

GG


----------



## AR1

Gray Goose said:


> both queens could be virgins, IE the 2 open cells, may need to wait for a bit before you "panic"
> 
> GG


Not 'quite' paniced yet. Obviously the old queen made it over to the new hive and started laying, then stopped for whatever reason. I will probably give them a frame of brood to keep their numbers up, if any is available.


----------



## AR1

Opened my new hive again after 5 days. Everything looks fine. Didn't see the queen but didn't look hard. Lots and lots of eggs, and a couple of frames of capped brood. Lots of pollen but honey is a bit scarce. Fortunately we have had good rains this week, so we may avoid a deep dearth. They will be needing a second box once all those capped cells hatch out. Did see a few drone cells.

Plan to wait 3 more days and open my other two hives.


----------



## AR1

Nice day. On and off rain all day, and cool. I finally replaced the broken vinyl siding that I have been looking at these last 15 years! Whittled a new handle for my shovel. Thinned the lettuce and greens newly sprouting in the garden. 

Tomatoes are looking good, lots of green ones. Still a ways away from any ripening. The zucchini is starting, so I expect to be eating it every day from now on. Sweet corn is tasseling and melons are growing.


----------



## gww

Ar1
We must be in a bit of a derth cause the birds or wasp or squirrels ect. open up the skins of my peaches and then the honey bees are working them hard. My garden sounds a bit like yours. May extract today but like you, a couple hives seem to have lots of bees but not much excess.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

AR1 said:


> After work this morning I visited the bees. 2 capped queen cells hanging down off the lowest comb. No scouts at the traps nearby. A few more uncapped queen cells, but it was hard to see if anything was in them.


Found a nice, fat queen running around in the hive that survived winter. This would be a new queen after the old queen swarmed. For some reason she was up in the honey super where there is no space to lay eggs.

The swarm hive is a different situation. I found an uncapped (opened) queen cell what looks like a very young virgin queen. Small, slim, very pale. For some reason she had her head stuck in a cell and it looked like she was trying but couldn't get out. Why? I freed her and watched her a while. There was also a newer queen cell that hasn't been capped yet with a large larvae inside.

Interestingly, there was a fair bit of brood, none capped yet. So it appears there is a queen in there somewhere but I never saw her. Also, it appeared that the most recent eggs were laid with several eggs per cell. I doubt this is laying worker, since there is a virgin queen present, and also because this hive is only a few weeks old after the swarm. I suspect the old queen is failing badly. Not an elderly queen though, she was new last June.


----------



## AR1

Garden looks good after all the rain last week, but I dug some potatoes and the moisture is only about 4 inches deep. Below that is dry dirt. The crops around look a lot better, corn is tasseling and soybeans flowering, but drought risk is still high. 

My sweet corn is making ears, so I may get a little after all. Some of it had to be replanted 3 times, between the cold spring and then the dry weather. Water melons, cantaloupes are looking good. They prefer dry weather.


----------



## AR1

Saw bearding on the new carni hive, so I figured all that capped brood had hatched. Opened them up and it was so. Suddenly the hive is full of bees. The hive also has several frames of young brood and some capped still to hatch. Hard working queen. Good pollen stores and nectar, but not a lot of capped honey. I put a medium on top and closed it up.

Several of my hives are now light green. It's a long story starting with I decided to replace an old, malfunctioning toilet. Not a hard job but one I had only done once before, not taking into account that new toilets have much smaller tanks than old ones. Large gap of ugly peeling old paint visible. Nothing for it but to check and see what colors I had mixed up. Light green pretty well matched what was in there already. Finished that and had a dab of paint left. Slapped it on a few tops and hive bodies. It's interior paint so it won't last long, but looks nice for this season.


----------



## AR1

Took a look in my swarm hive today. It's sad. All the capped brood is drone. Saw that skinny little queen running around like a nut. Watched her on the frame for several minutes to see if she was laying but didn't see it. 

But I now assume she is the only queen present and is laying blanks. The active queen cells I saw last time were all torn open and empty. That skinny queen again I am sure. This is different from a laying worker hive. I think I can pinch her and introduce a frame of eggs and probably get a queen out of it. It's late, but I have had luck even in August. My worry is that there are too few drones around. My other hive there has few, and I know of no other hives nearby. The other option is to pinch her and recombine back with the parent hive. I'd destroy all that drone brood first.

We are at the garden stage when friends say they have enough zucchinis and my wife rolls her eyes every day when I bring in a few more. Zucchini every night. In a few weeks it will be tomatoes. 

Toilet flushes and does not leak! It got the acid test this morning and flushes properly. Now have more light blue hive bodies. Once you get started on a painting project it's easy to just keep painting.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> But I now assume she is the only queen present and is laying blanks. The active queen cells I saw last time were all torn open and empty. That skinny queen again I am sure. This is different from a laying worker hive. I think I can pinch her and introduce a frame of eggs and probably get a queen out of it. It's late, but I have had luck even in August. My worry is that there are too few drones around. My other hive there has few, and I know of no other hives nearby. The other option is to pinch her and recombine back with the parent hive. I'd destroy all that drone brood first.


I'd say do this asap.
I have a similar issue in my swarm chasing department - was not able to find that queen still, and now she has probably sabotaged the entire swarm as the bees getting too old.








2 Peculiar swarms - looking for swarm catchers' views


I've probably got involved in under 20 swarms, so I haven't got loads of experience, and observed two odd swarms this season that were almost identical but confused me a bit. I'd like to know what you think: One turned up in a trap at the start of the swarm season, one I got called to just...




www.beesource.com


----------



## AR1

Pinched her and added two frames of mixed age brood with the bees included. She was on the 15th frame I checked, in the middle of the lower box. There were patches of eggs and brood on a majority of frames in both the upper and lower boxes. Squashed them. Most cells had one egg properly laid, but one patch of cells had 3-5 eggs. None that I saw were on the sides of the cells, so I am still hoping it was this queen and not a laying worker. I'll check again in a few days to see if any queen cells are started. If not, try again. Opened some of the drone brood and saw no mites, but it wasn't an intensive inspection.

The hive itself appears to be working hard, lots of nectar and new comb. Worst case they fail and I get some clean comb and honey.

Green beans and a little sweet corn in a few days. 

I was watering the garden and had the hose propped up on a stick. A hummingbird was just fascinated by the stream of running water. She hovered around it about 6" away, circled it. Sat on a branch and watched it, flew away and came back several times. Wonder what she thought that stream of water was. I sort of expected her to dive in for a drink, but not quite. She was 4' away from me for several minutes. Hostas are blooming and I often see them in this season but usually not that close or for that long.


----------



## AR1

Opened the queenless hive and found several queen cells started. Interestingly not all were on the frames I put in. Also, a fair amount of new brood and eggs on several frames. Probably all drone brood, I suppose, but I'll know in a week. It appears to be mostly properly laid eggs, one per cell at the bottom.

I looked very carefully for a queen, still suspecting that the old queen might be hiding in there laying a little, but did not find her. Wait and see what comes of these queen cells.

A bit of a dearth. Still fair amounts of nectar in the hives, but no additional honey from a week ago, and actually less. It's been a few weeks since the last rain. Crops look decent right now, but if we don't get some rain soon, it'll be disaster.

Green beans are ON! Sweet corn soon, if the raccoons don't get it. I can see where they have torn down a few stalks to test the green corn. Tonight ate a meal with 7 veggies from my garden. A few tomatoes, and soon too many.

Toilet # 2 installed and working properly. One more to go. I'd do that tonight but still have some painting to complete.

Regarding Covid. The news is full of panic and recriminations, but the numbers really are not there. Yes, cases are up, but looking at daily deaths, it's hardly a bump. My hospital has a steady, low number of cases. Very different from the situation last year. Don't let the news media and DC politicians scare you.


----------



## gww

Southern Mo may be getting hit with covid a bit harder then up north right now. My daughters sister-in-law had her kids sent home from church camp due to a outbreak. She is on cancer treatments which might effect vaccine efficiency a bit. Haven't heard it turning bad on her yet though.

I just replaced two toilets also. One was pulled due to laying tile. For an easy job, it still always takes me about three times as long as it should to accomplish it.

Shucked corn yesterday and planted at different times and so more coming. Tomatoes just coming on strong. Better flavor then store bought.

I screwed up on the tobacco and none come up and so next year I will be starting it in pots to see how it goes.
Cheers
gww


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Regarding Covid. The news is full of panic and recriminations, but the numbers really are not there. Yes, cases are up, but looking at daily deaths, it's hardly a bump. My hospital has a steady, low number of cases. Very different from the situation last year. Don't let the news media and DC politicians scare you.


Though is it not a largely local issue? (COVID that is).
Our location is the about the highest vaccinated county in the state (about 60-70% range) - so that is a good place to be.

Google "us covid".
Look at the stats.
IL has it good.
WI is also OK for now.
FL - not so much (too much party and anti-vaxxing I recon).


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Though is it not a largely local issue? (COVID that is).
> Our location is the about the highest vaccinated county in the state (about 60-70% range) - so that is a good place to be.
> 
> Google "us covid".
> Look at the stats.
> IL has it good.
> WI is also OK for now.
> FL - not so much (too much party and anti-vaxxing I recon).
> 
> View attachment 64778
> 
> 
> View attachment 64781
> 
> View attachment 64780


Hi Greg. I follow the national and state stats very closely. As you say, a local issue now. There are local increases in case numbers. But the key number I care about is deaths, and that number has hardly ticked. My main point is to avoid thinking that what the NYTs and similar outlets are saying actually reflects reality. 2-300 deaths per day is not nothing. It's very sad. But it's not what the TV or the NYTs is telling us. 5-6 deaths per state/day is a personal tragedy, and no longer a national crisis. 

The overloaded hospitals cry is simply silly. Every hospital in the US built capacity to handle the enormous numbers of covid patients we had last fall and winter. If they are crying no capacity now, they are either lying or have exceptionally poor management.

I am actually surprised to see that death numbers are NOT up, since case numbers started rising at the end of June. We have come to expect death numbers to rise 2 weeks after case numbers rise, but so far, no. 

I do expect the Southern states to have a rise in death numbers as the summer moves forward, and the northern states in the late fall/winter. Those are the seasons that people stay inside with recycled air, far more likely to catch an airborne virus.


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Southern Mo may be getting hit with covid a bit harder then up north right now. My daughters sister-in-law had her kids sent home from church camp due to a outbreak. She is on cancer treatments which might effect vaccine efficiency a bit. Haven't heard it turning bad on her yet though.
> 
> I just replaced two toilets also. One was pulled due to laying tile. For an easy job, it still always takes me about three times as long as it should to accomplish it.
> 
> Shucked corn yesterday and planted at different times and so more coming. Tomatoes just coming on strong. Better flavor then store bought.
> 
> I screwed up on the tobacco and none come up and so next year I will be starting it in pots to see how it goes.
> Cheers
> gww


Hope the lady is Okay!

Home repair jobs always take longer than they should. The toilet last night had one part that didn't quite fit, which added an hour of thinking about it and adapting the part with a file.

The first time you grow tobacco it's always hard because the seeds are so tiny and the new plants stay tiny for weeks. Once you have one successful year though, you have so many seeds that you can afford to have 999 out of 1000 fail and still get plenty of plants. If you have any seeds left, put them in pots now. Just dump them on top of the soil and put them outdoors. Water occasionally. Bring indoors when there is threat of frost. They will survive overwinter and you put them outside in the spring. I'll mail you seeds when I have some fresh.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I am actually surprised to see that death numbers are NOT up, since case numbers started rising at the end of June. We have come to expect death numbers to rise 2 weeks after case numbers rise, but so far, no.


Maybe the lower death numbers have to do with the better preparedness this time around.
I don't know; don't really watch this closely.

Regarding NYT, they pretty much conform with the John Hopkins numbers.
I see no reason to NOT be trusting John Hopkins (IF not them, then who left?).









Florida - COVID-19 Overview - Johns Hopkins


Florida - COVID New Cases, Deaths, Testing Data - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center




coronavirus.jhu.edu


----------



## Newbeek2021

_wonders how long before Rader shuts down this thread_


----------



## GregB

Newbeek2021 said:


> _wonders how long before Rader shuts down this thread_


AR is the local boss - tis his "blog" to bring up the subjects. 
Until Rader shows up indeed.


----------



## gww

I do have seed left. I think I will just start them early next spring. I already move tons of stuff into and attached green house but it still gets to freezing in it and it just barely saves some of the warm weather plants like fig trees and such. My house itself was not made for plants due to the type of windows in it and no good space for plants. I will start them inside though maybe march and figure they will be ready for outside come end of april.
Your thoughts?
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Maybe the lower death numbers have to do with the better preparedness this time around.
> I don't know; don't really watch this closely.
> 
> Regarding NYT, they pretty much conform with the John Hopkins numbers.
> I see no reason to NOT be trusting John Hopkins (IF not them, then who left?).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Florida - COVID-19 Overview - Johns Hopkins
> 
> 
> Florida - COVID New Cases, Deaths, Testing Data - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coronavirus.jhu.edu


Not arguing Johns Hopkins numbers, just the excessive heavy breathing from various news organizations.

At work I am no longer greatly concerned about Covid. We are back to treating strokes, hearts, car wrecks, diabetics who don't watch their sugar and all the usual stuff. We still get Covid patients. Yesterday we had one on my unit.

As for being better prepared, well, yes and no. It is now routine, and we know what to watch for, which helps. On the other hand we are not giving any new treatments that we were not giving in June of last year. My own feeling is that the most vulnerable already got Covid or are vaccinated. The remaining population is a lot less vulnerable.


----------



## AR1

Took a look in the two hives at the farm. Happy. The swarm donor seems to have a strong queen, wall to wall brood on several frames. Honey is being stored. I took one frame. Added OA on a shop towel between the brood box and the honey super and also between the two honey supers. No signs of mites but have not done a wash.

The swarm hive has several capped queen cells and a couple of uncapped. No sign of a queen, and the areas of drone brood are small but present again. Some worker brood still capped, probably the last from the two frames I added. If there is a queen present I have not been able to find her over several visits and close inspection. The hive does seem to be storing honey. Did not want to add the OA right now while they are raising queens. Don't know but thought it might add stress.

Good rain the other day, nearly an inch. Soybeans are still blooming some, and corn is pollinating, but both will soon be done. I think we got this rain just barely in time to support pollination. Thank God!

Gardens look great. Eating green beans, sweet corn (first tonight), zucchini, lettuce, tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, and a variety of greens. Cantaloupes look great, watermelons are expanding rapidly...a few weeks? I had squash come up in the garden, volunteer. I had assumed they were zucchini since that was all I had last year, but they are something different. No idea what, seeds buried in the soil from years past. Time will tell if they are any good.

3 toilets placed, toilet project is done, no leaks. 2 are Kohler and appear to be good quality. One is American Standard and is distinctly lower quality, poorer finish, and cost considerably more. Unfortunately one bathroom has a tiny space available and American Standard made the only toilet that fit that location. All flush well. The new low-volume toilets are much better than they used to be. No need for double-flushing so far.


----------



## gww

I just took out an american standard and put a kohler in its place. Rather then move the new american standard to my basement. I kept the 40 year old lime crusted ceramic one that was there. Just put a new seat on it.
Cheers
gww


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> The new low-volume toilets are much better than they used to be.


They certainly are. We still on occasion find 6 gpf water closets in older commercial facilities we are renovating and often replace them with 1.28 gpf models with negligible performance degradation.

The water efficiency initiatives have collectively become so significant that it is causing the plumbing industry to look for a consensus change to the ubiquitous Hunter's Curves and has changed the paradigms regarding sanitary drain piping sizing and minimum slopes to address the challenge of drain line carry.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> They certainly are. We still on occasion find 6 gpf water closets in older commercial facilities we are renovating and often replace them with 1.28 gpf models with negligible performance degradation.
> 
> The water efficiency initiatives have collectively become so significant that it is causing the plumbing industry to look for a consensus change to the ubiquitous Hunter's Curves and has changed the paradigms regarding sanitary drain piping sizing and minimum slopes to address the challenge of drain line carry.


Had never heard of Hunter's curve before. Huh.


----------



## gww

Russ
I admit to the possible need for water reduction but just hate the new faucets and do wish it could be recognized that every area is not the same. Areas with heavy lime cause problems with low water faucets and the water is yet too good for a water softener. If I lived in town, I would probably have $5oo a month water bills just on my garden as my wife waters a couple hours a day not counting spraying areas to for the chickens to cool off in. 

I hated the american standard mostly cause of the very small amount of water it held in the bowl that you could just not really aim well for and so cleaning was worse and more often. It flushed well enough though. The kohlers hold a little more and the bowl is shaped well for not hitting the sides and water goes around the whole bowl when flushed. Still like the old one best though.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Russ
> I admit to the possible need for water reduction but just hate the new faucets and do wish it could be recognized that every area is not the same. Areas with heavy lime cause problems with low water faucets and the water is yet too good for a water softener.
> Cheers
> gww


Agree. A legal standard appropriate for south Cali or Arizona is not proper for the Mid West. That type of one-size-fits-all narrow-minded busybodyness is a mental flaw.

Low-flow faucets are annoying. It takes forever just to clean up your hands.


----------



## RNSwans

Trin said:


> Have you considered swapping hive locations. Later in the day, with a weak hive or split, move it to the position of the strong hive and the strong to the weak hive location. This would add a fair amount of field bees to the weak hive.
> 
> Also with the math of "found one mite in a dozen drone brood cappings" means you probably do have a mite load of +5 to +8-9 per 100 bees. (Taking into account that varroa prefer drone brood.) I would treat asap. Checking a dozen cells is kind of thin knowledge. If you don't want to do an alcohol wash then at least do a sugar roll. Dopey behavior is probably either pesticide poisoning or virus related. Considering the deformed wing and presence of varroa I would at least treat for varroa that pass on viruses to bees. I lost all 7 hives last winter to varroa. I wasn't doing the management, leaving it to others who lacked experience. Won't make that mistake again. Some of the hives were very strong. Those are the hives that often collapse first because of varroa. Drones will crash any home they want. Moving between hives and apiaries. How come the male species always gets blamed for home wrecking?


President of our lical club did a demo of sugar shake and alcohol wash for varroa. After he did the sugar shake, he alcohol washed same bees. Sugar shake only got about 25% of the varroa.
I'm


----------



## AR1

RNSwans said:


> President of our lical club did a demo of sugar shake and alcohol wash for varroa. After he did the sugar shake, he alcohol washed same bees. Sugar shake only got about 25% of the varroa.
> I'm


Agree. Not a fan of the sugar shake. Randy Oliver offers a lot of good demos on how to do a proper alcohol wash. I'm just a bit too lazy to do them often enough.

Today I opened my new 'Carni' hive. A bit disappointed in that they are not expanding into the second box much at all, a little comb building on a few frames and a mite of honey, though the brood box is packed. I added two OA towels. No visible mites and no wing problems, but if it reaches the point that you are seeing mites and wrinkled wings it is getting late.


----------



## Litsinger

gww said:


> I admit to the possible need for water reduction but just hate the new faucets and do wish it could be recognized that every area is not the same.





AR1 said:


> Low-flow faucets are annoying. It takes forever just to clean up your hands.


No arguments from me. In most cases we are replacing older water consuming fixtures not due to mandates but due to cost-avoidance. With combined water/sewer rates at $8.50 - $10.00 / kGal even here in the Mid-South, bigger commercial and institutional operations are pursuing water conservation for the ROI.

That said, I am a big proponent of letting the market rather than fiat dictate consumer decisions.


----------



## AR1

Watched the bees dragging out two immature bees and kick them out. Both were weak, one had wrinkled wings. Glad I got the OA on that hive and should have done it a few weeks ago. Have not seen any other bees with bad wings, and checked the ground and did not see any other abandoned bees.


----------



## AR1

Got into the queenless swarm hive. Found a large queen cell that appeared to have been chewed out of recently. No queen that I saw, and still a fair amount of drone brood, which I squished a lot of. Surprised at how many bees there are in that hive. If I don't see any signs of a queen in a few weeks I am going to shake them out. Let the workers bolster the other hive.

Nice bees though. I went in and did a full hive breakdown, looked at every frame, with no smoke. They got pissy by the end when I was looking through the brood area, but only one sting, right as I was finishing up.


----------



## AR1

Finally got a decent rain last night, maybe an inch. Picked a watermelon yesterday, the first. Sadly it was still a bit young. Another week would have done it. Sweetcorn is coming in. It's all a bit tough and chewy this year, I suppose the endless dry weather.


----------



## gww

My wife got out second batch of corn day before yesterday. Chickens get very excited when I shuck corn. So does the dog. I cut the ends off even when there is no worm in the corn so they can all get a bit. My wife stager plants. So far, I think we have one more raised box that is just forming ears. Perhaps this is why I run three refrigerators a one large box freezer and was going to buy a smaller upright freezer but it was not in stock when I replaced a fridge that went bad. Probably still have to buy it eventually. Too bad all of them are not more full of meat. Oh well, deer season is not that far away.

We also got rain yesterday along with tons of thunder.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

I took two frames of honey from the freezer yesterday and strained them. Put the wet frames outside in the evening. By AM the yellow jackets and bumbles were all over them. By midmorning the honeybees had chased the others away and cleaned up the frames. At evening the honeys were gone and the wasps back in force. Had fun with the fly swatter, counted 12 and there were a few more that fell off the deck.

However...I also saw yellow jackets buzzing my beehive after that. I think it is a mistake to put wet frames anywhere near a beehive. Once the YJs get a taste of honey they really go after it. I had not noticed YJs pestering the bees before I put those frames out.

So I got three jugs and made traps. One has honey and wax scraps and vinegar. One has just vinegar. One has Coca-cola. I put the honey trap out a few hours before the others, and it had caught a few, plus one bumble. Very interested to see which works better, and if any work well. Will also try meat on the next trial.

Got the first cantaloupes of the season yesterday. Very happy, and it's good. The sweetcorn has been a bit of a bust this year. It survived the drought surprisingly well and pollinated well, but the quality is poor. Not very sweet and pretty tough. That is genetics. My corn is descended from a variety of types including common field corn, indian (flint type) corn and several different commercial sweet corn varieties, crossbred multiple times over the last 15 years. In past years I have had very good luck, with only the occasional tough ear. This spring I had misplaced my saved seed and had to scrounge seed from various ears hanging in the basement. The 'sweetness' gene is easily identified by the wrinkled seed shape, so all these seeds had at least one sweetness gene. But this set me back to year two in my crossbreeding program. Fortunately I did find the new seed, so next year I will have good seed again and expect much sweeter corn, if I don't misplace them again...


----------



## gww

We grow a corn that turns a purple-ish/black when it is actually old enough to make seed with. It has some white in it prior to darkening. It is plenty sweet but chewier then the yellow sweet corns that you buy at most stores. The ears are not quite as big and most plants really only give one good ear but we plant close to each other. I will eat the bread pudding peach cobbler and such for desert but my wife kinda uses corn for snacks or desert. She tries to stay healthy and I try to stay right at the edge of heart burn.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> We grow a corn that turns a purple-ish/black when it is actually old enough to make seed with. It has some white in it prior to darkening. It is plenty sweet but chewier then the yellow sweet corns that you buy at most stores. The ears are not quite as big and most plants really only give one good ear but we plant close to each other. I will eat the bread pudding peach cobbler and such for desert but my wife kinda uses corn for snacks or desert. She tries to stay healthy and I try to stay right at the edge of heart burn.
> Cheers
> gww


My sweet corn varies from white to yellow to purple. Many of the leaves, stems, cobs and ears are purple. This comes from my original seed indian corn which I bought from a local feed store back in about 1996. I liked the color of a few of the stalks and selected for it. Later, in about 2006 I started crossing it with sweet corn when I noticed that some of the normally yellow sweet corn seeds had been pollinated by the indian corn. I planted that back and encouraged more cross pollination with different stocks. It's purely for my own amusement, as I can rarely convince anyone else to eat it.


----------



## William Bagwell

Before someone returns this thread back to bees AR1, look up "land race". Basically, you cross a bunch of different varieties of something, then select for what grows best in your area. Looks like you were almost there without knowing. It is recommended to keep like kinds together and not mix sweet corn with dent.

Some very informative threads about land race on Permies. Not going to link without a mods permission.


----------



## AR1

Back to bees huh? Good day for me. I got into the 'queenless' swarm hive and found a very large, fat queen, very light colored abdomen. No signs of eggs yet, but I have high hopes. Of note, all signs of young drone broodrearing are gone. There are still some capped drone cells but no new brood. This suggests to me that the bees have confidence, so to speak, in this queen and have kicked out the drone laying workers.


----------



## AR1

William Bagwell said:


> Before someone returns this thread back to bees AR1, look up "land race". Basically, you cross a bunch of different varieties of something, then select for what grows best in your area. Looks like you were almost there without knowing. It is recommended to keep like kinds together and not mix sweet corn with dent.


The crossing was deliberate, in an attempt to add some genetic variety. I took field (dent) corn cobs and selected those seeds that indicated they had been wind pollinated from my neighboring sweet corn. Then added those seeds with the following year's sweet corn seeds. First year crosses are at best semi-sweet, but subsequent years greatly improved. I don't really like the newer 'triple-sweet' corns and prefer the older varieties, so it works out for me. I suppose at some point I should stop adding in new crosses and try for a stable sweet corn.


----------



## gww

Sorry if I am some how messing your thread up. This is our upcoming and last batch for this year.








My wife is why I eat good cause I am too lazy.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

Saw pollen going into the swarm hive. Cracked it open and full of eggs and young grubs! Happy. Fat yellow queen is doing good.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Regarding Covid. The news is full of panic and recriminations, but the numbers really are not there. Yes, cases are up, but looking at daily deaths, it's hardly a bump. My hospital has a steady, low number of cases. Very different from the situation last year. Don't let the news media and DC politicians scare you.


So AR,
What is your say now?
About a month passed from your past assessment.


----------



## AR1

It's bad, but I'm still hopeful we will not have the number of cases we saw last year. The number of vaccinations and recovered people leaves the virus considerable less room to spread.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> It's bad, but I'm still hopeful we will not have the number of cases we saw last year. The number of vaccinations and recovered people leaves the virus considerable less room to spread.


So it is bad. 
Are you agreeing with the media and the admin now?


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> So it is bad.
> Are you agreeing with the media and the admin now?


That happens occasionally, by chance I suppose.


----------



## Gino45

I looked yesterday on a hot dry day with little wind. Usually there is too much wind. What I saw was bees cramming honey into their brood chambers and very little brood and even less eggs and new larvae. It was like winter is almost here, except we do not have winter here. And yes there was pollen in the hives.


----------



## AR1

Gino45 said:


> I looked yesterday on a hot dry day with little wind. Usually there is too much wind. What I saw was bees cramming honey into their brood chambers and very little brood and even less eggs and new larvae. It was like winter is almost here, except we do not have winter here. And yes there was pollen in the hives.


I see the same. Lots of pollen going in, but little honey stored. It's a nectar dearth but not pollen I suppose. All the hives have some honey and nectar so I am letting it go without feeding. I have OA paper towels in the hives so at this point I want brooding low so most of the mites are on the bees not in the brood.


----------



## AR1

Bee plan for tomorrow, open my hives and check for stores. Check the swarm hive for capped brood. Place OA strips in the swarm hive.

Peach season is here! I have picked up a few windfalls the last week, but today I got half a dozen. Not really windfalls, more like bird and squirrel-falls. The varmints nibble them and knock them down. I gave the limbs a light shake and got a couple more. Cantaloupes are excellent now too, but I am restraining myself from picking the watermelons. I tried a couple and still green.

On a different topic, did you know that large agricultural corporations will fib to you? Not lying, exactly, but stretching the truth to the point it isn't exactly true anymore. One example is antibiotic dosing. If you look up the standard table for dosing livestock, it gives you a wide range. If you read the dosing advised on the bottle from a company, it advises a dose at the top of that range, encouraging you to use double the amount of drug actually needed to kill the disease (laundry detergent is the same, use half the recommended amount).

This year I did a small trial that I have wanted to do for years. I saved ears of corn from a field, so-called 'hybrid' corn. According to seed corn companies, you cannot plant this back, as the corn will 'revert' to it's parental types in the second generation and not produce a good crop. Farmers generally believe this tale. A major cost for corn farmers is the seed.

This year I planted back seed from some ears I scavenged from a neighboring field. I planted them in the worst soil available, a very hard-packed dry clay. They got a small amount of balanced fertilizer. If the seed corn companies were telling the truth, they should produce a poor crop. In spite of extremely poor growing conditions this year, poor soil and very dry conditions, no insecticide, I am getting nice, large ears that look identical to the parent crop. This is what I expected from replanting from various hybrid garden crops, which generally do fine. 

I hope next year to expand the trial, use several ears from different corn varieties and plant a much larger area into better soil. I expect good results. At nearly $100/acre cost for seed corn, the companies have a strong vested interest in encouraging farmers to buy seed every year and not plant back. I expect good results, but I suspect I'll have difficulty getting any of my farmer friends to try it on an acre or two out of sight somewhere.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Peach season is here! I have picked up a few windfalls the last week, but today I got half a dozen.


It never ceases to amaze me how the beautiful and delicate blooms that show up when we are still under a threat of frost are able to get pollinated and subsequently dodge all the myriad challenges presented by weather, wildlife, insects and a litany of pathogens to finally emerge as a colorful and delicious fruit in the latter part of the summer, seemingly despite all odds. Glad you are enjoying the literal fruits of your labors.


----------



## AR1

The Insect Apocalypse That Never Was


Free Thought Lives




quillette.com


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how the beautiful and delicate blooms that show up when we are still under a threat of frost are able to get pollinated and subsequently dodge all the myriad challenges presented by weather, wildlife, insects and a litany of pathogens to finally emerge as a colorful and delicious fruit in the latter part of the summer, seemingly despite all odds. Glad you are enjoying the literal fruits of your labors.


I am literally tired of peaches. Never happened to me before! Got a couple dozen picked and ready to eat. Gave a few of the nicer-looking ones away. My diet today consisted of coffee with cream, tea, peaches, and one windfall apple. My wife finally made me eat a normal dinner.

Bees looked great today. My new swarm hive has large amounts of capped worker brood, so in a week or so they will start replenishing their declining worker stock. Other hive is finally adding a little honey. The last two weeks have given us enough rain to reboot the flower season.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I am literally tired of peaches.


It is too bad, but our vacation landed right into the middle of the peach season.
Lost a lot of crop since we were away (house-sitting neighbors picked some, but not nearly enough).
At least I was smart enough to pick a box full of the most ready peaches and we took it with us - we had fresh peaches every day while vacationing.
(NOT the same as the ripe peaches FROM the tree - oh well).


----------



## gww

Cutting around the worms, peeling and cutting small peaches is hard work. Wife made some jelly and I made some cobbler and froze enough for a making a few more. Chicken got some threw to them and squirrels and birds worked them hard. I had two rounds, early peach and late. I am apparently a couple weeks to a month earlier then AR1.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> It is too bad, but our vacation landed right into the middle of the peach season.
> Lost a lot of crop since we were away (house-sitting neighbors picked some, but not nearly enough).
> At least I was smart enough to pick a box full of the most ready peaches and we took it with us - we had fresh peaches every day while vacationing.
> (NOT the same as the ripe peaches FROM the tree - oh well).


Too bad. Have you ever had ripe-on-the-tree apricots? Unbelievable. Nothing you buy is even a shadow of that flavor. I feel sorry for kids who never get anything but supermarket fruit.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Too bad. Have you ever had ripe-on-the-tree apricots? Unbelievable. Nothing you buy is even a shadow of that flavor. I feel sorry for kids who never get anything but supermarket fruit.


I have no apricots, unfortunately.
BUT - everyone at my house knows the ripe-on-the-tree peaches.
Last season we had a "stay-cation" (not a vacation) - eating off the tree peaches was one bright spot.

And off-the-tree apples is pretty much a routine here.
And hey - off-the-tree plums are here and now!

Of course, off-the-bush cucumbers and tomatoes are also routine. That is pretty usual for us.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I feel sorry for kids who never get anything but supermarket fruit.


Too bad, but their parents' don't know any better either. 
Of course, doing a little work in the backyard is an alien undertaking for the most now days.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Too bad, but their parents' don't know any better either.
> Of course, doing a little work in the backyard is an alien undertaking for the most now days.


So very little work. My 'work' of growing peaches was throwing pits into the back yard garden.


----------



## AR1

Watermelon, 3 kinds of cantaloupe, squash, peach, bitter melon, indian corn. Garden is in its exuberant phase. My wife is to the point of 'I am tired of vegetables' and 'plant less next year'.

Thanks for calm bees. Been power washing the house and got to the last wall, where a hive is situated. Washed all around them, even climbed a ladder to get the second story, and they didn't even buzz me. I think maybe the fog of water confused them. But a yellow jacket was a little too interested and buzzed me constantly. I wore the veil for the part directly in front of the hive.


----------



## AR1

So much for calm bees. Picking the garden and was buzzed repeatedly even 30 feet away behind the hive. That's a first. Last stop was the carrots which are near the hive, stung 3 times, cheek and arm. Almost broke my glasses I was so surprised I slapped the bugger. Put on my veil and got my carrots. Something must be messing with them.


----------



## gww

Ar1


> Something must be messing with them.


Sounds like that might have been you yesterday and they have NOT forgot. 😊 
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Ar1
> 
> Sounds like that might have been you yesterday and they have NOT forgot. 😊
> Cheers
> gww


Nah. Different bees, 4 miles apart. These were my farm garden bees, which don't usually react much even when I open the hives.


----------



## AR1

Currently 5 dead bumble bees in front of the hive. Yesterday I saw one, then two, three over the course of about 2 hours. I saw honey bees savagely chewing on live bumble bee wings. Tine to put up a screen.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I saw honey bees savagely chewing on live bumble bee wings.


Caught this in action today- 3 honey bees, 1 bumblebee = advantage honey bee.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Caught this in action today- 3 honey bees, 1 bumblebee bee = advantage honey bee.
> 
> View attachment 65288


I watched this process very carefully last year. The honeys are very efficient at keeping bumbles and yellow jackets out during the summer when temps are high and bee populations high. Later, during cool mornings and evenings the honeys are at a severe disadvantage and it isn't long before bumbles and YJs are entering and leaving almost freely.

I have seen quite a few YJs trying to get into the hive but it appears so far without much success. I circled the house and sprayed several wasp nests, but those are not the same beast as the smaller YJs. No idea where their hive is, I believe not on my property. I am also trapping a fair number of wasps and YJs using honey, peach and melon for bait, but nowhere near the number I see flying around. I even went so far as to spray pyrethrin on my compost heap, where large numbers of YJs and other wasps congregate around spoiled fruit. Many fewer today than 2 days ago when I started. It's a small risk, since occasionally honeys will be on the compost, but very few.


----------



## AR1

I wonder about cutting a slice from my plastic queen excluder and using it to cover the entrances. It would keep the drones inside, but there are not many drones now anyway. That would stop the bumbles, but not the yellow jackets. Might make the entrances easier to defend anyway.


----------



## AR1

YJ update. 3 yellow jacket traps out, variously baited with different fruit and honey. Cantaloupe melon works poorly. Peach is Okay but catches more of the larger bald-faced wasps: Dolichovespula maculata - Wikipedia
and not so many YJs. The bald-faced wasps I have not seen attacking the hives, ever. 

Best bait in the traps is watermelon chunks, apple chunks, and honey. A slice of apple works fine, and the YJs seem to especially like it.

I have not yet tried meat, which some people say works very well.

The traps are catching maybe 30-40 YJs a day total. Since I am not feeding and so not attracting them to the area, this appears to be sufficient. I am no longer seeing YJs attempting to enter the hive. I did see another dead bumble bee on the cement in front of the hive. Funny, a worker bee came along and started savaging the already dead bumble. Earlier in the summer an occasional bumble was getting into the traps, but none for several weeks.

Almost all my traps work very well in the morning and catch few in the afternoon and evening. I suspect that I am getting the scouts early on, and so few foragers are following on if the scouts don't return.

I dump windfall apples and kitchen scraps in a compose hole in the garden. This attracts huge numbers of YJs. After last year's miserable experience, have multiple hives killed by YJs, I actually sprayed the compost pile with insecticide. Killed lots of flies and wasps, and I believe it is helping keep the YJs from targeting my property. Don't like to do it. By the way, the YJ traps also catch lots of flies, which is a nice bonus. We are in and out all the time onto our deck, and lots of flies get in the kitchen. Far fewer since I put the traps out on the deck.

I pulled in the last of my swarm traps today, all but one remote one. Not a single swarm this year! Except the one that came from my own hive.


----------



## AR1

Update on the hives. Swarm hive at the farm is doing well, expanding numbers and storing lots of pollen and some nectar. Not much honey stored. It is in two deeps, because that was what the original bait trap was. It could probably benefit from taking off the top deep and moving the stores down into empty frames on the bottom.

The other hive at the farm is also doing well, plenty of bees and they are making a small amount of honey. They are in 4 mediums. 100% of the brood is in the two bottom mediums. Very little expansion this year. Too dry and not much nectar since June, so maintaining a smaller colony and not expanding makes sense. Both hives have OA paper towels between the boxes.

Same story with the hive at home. Plenty of bees in the brood box, packed full actually, and not much expansion up with very little stored honey. They are maintaining and not growing, which is fine with me. I'll feed them all going into winter, unless the fall flow is exceptional. We would need some pretty heavy rain at this point for that to happen, and it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Nights are now distinctly chilly, 50s. Garden is going strong, lots of tomatoes, beans, and melons. I weighed a cantaloupe at 14 pounds this week. Biggest cantaloupe I ever saw. Some giant watermelons too, and they are finally ripening enough to eat.


----------



## AR1

Been seeing several dead bumble bees in front of the hive every day the last few days. This morning I cut a piece of queen excluder to cover one entrance, and placed a chimney robbing cover over the other entrance. The workers continued working as if the queen excluder wasn't there, it slowed them down only a little. Took them longer to figure out the chimney but a few were using it later.

The yellow jackets are not being attracted much to my fruit bait this week, and I see them scavenging the dead bees off the cement pad in front of the hive. Time to try some meat bait in the traps.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Maybe the lower death numbers have to do with the better preparedness this time around.
> I don't know; don't really watch this closely.
> 
> Regarding NYT, they pretty much conform with the John Hopkins numbers.
> I see no reason to NOT be trusting John Hopkins (IF not them, then who left?).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Florida - COVID-19 Overview - Johns Hopkins
> 
> 
> Florida - COVID New Cases, Deaths, Testing Data - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coronavirus.jhu.edu


Well, I have to give a mea culpa, I was sadly mistaken about the severity of the current covid wave. Numbers are far higher than I had thought possible, given the numbers of people who had been vaccinated, and of how many people had had the disease and recovered. We are approaching 200 million fully vaccinated, and as of February the CDC said 83 million in the US had had the disease. CDC Estimates 83 Million U.S. COVID Infections. This Has Major Implications.

So how was I so off the mark? Prior infection appears to give a robust immunity, though I know personally a few people who have caught it twice. Also, purely anecdotal, we are seeing very few fully vaccinated patients in the hospital. A few, now and then, but not many. 

In Texas, 50% of the population is fully vaccinated, and some large number have had the disease. So where are all the new infections coming from? Number of deaths this last month nearly equaled the number of deaths during the peak last winter in Texas when everyone was vulnerable and no one vaccinated. 

Two thoughts on that. One, covid is reaching smaller communities/families/individuals who by chance were missed on earlier waves. Two, there are lots and lots of repeat cases, where people have caught it twice, or catch it after vaccination, and the numbers are not being reported properly. 

By the way, covid is very much a family disease. Not unusual to see multiple members of extended families all hit within a few days.


----------



## GregB

OK; changed my mind.... Not the "tale gate" here.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> OK; changed my mind.... Not the "tale gate" here.


I don't understand the comment.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I don't understand the comment.


All good AR.
Talking of the root causes why our hospitals are forced into the rationed care does not really belong here.
So I deleted my comment in that regard.


----------



## gww

Ar1
I think the 1918 had a very robust second year and it might be just how it cycles and how long from the beginning it takes to make it every where. Sorta like armadillos in mo, none 20 years ago and now dead on the road all the time. Many got sick with out even knowing it and ,animals?, could be involved along with it not being novel and more people tired of staying home and schools and and and.

Sorta makes sense in my mind when starting at zero and making an effort early to track and contact that might not be going on now due to the numbers involved.

Either way, nice to hear from someone whos job is affected by it to at least relate what they personally see even though every thing seen is not guaranteed to be the whole picture just like not every area is affected by chronic wasting disease in deer. 

Similar things could also could also be taken into account in our bee populations and count for differing experiences by us though given time all may get a taste of all the experiences possible.

I do also think that the more success early on of getting lucky enough to have been avoiding problems with sickness in people or bees can cause a loss of fear and might make for more brashness till it is too late. Might start thinking it can't happen to me and act accordingly. 

That seems to be what most treatment free bee keepers report or in fact even most bee keepers get some kind of bad turn somewhere along the line even if it does not happen every time. Don't get me wrong, I am still keeping the bees the same as I always did or worse and willing to see what happens. I did get the vaccine but I also still smoke.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

Ah. Got it.



https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784013



... 83.3% for combined infection- and vaccine-induced antibodies in May 2021... So by May 2021, 83% had 'immunity' from covid, either shots or disease. It must have been very irregularly distributed geographically, or, breakthrough cases are far more common than we had thought.


----------



## AR1

Since placing the queen excluder screen on the front of the hive I have not seen any dead bumble bees, nor have I seen more than a few bumbles investigating the hive entrance, so it seems to be working. 

Yellow jackets continue to be very common, but for some reason are avoiding my traps. Went from 30-40 YJs/day in 3 traps to 2-3 in 4 traps. Bait unchanged from before, honeycomb, apple and watermelon. I added one trap with a piece of raw chicken. That one has caught lots of flies, and zero YJs. It is starting to get stinky. I have not seen any YJs entering the hives, yet.

Weather remains very dry. Lots of pollen coming in, but not much honey stored.


----------



## AR1

Finally a decent rain. 
Got into all 3 hives today. Not a lot of changes. There is some honey stored, mostly in the lowest boxes, and little in the upper. Lots of pollen. Looks like very little brood right now, a few small patches in the middle of the brood boxes. More eggs laid so we may be getting a larger fall brood going. 

The weakest hive, from a swarm, is gradually increasing numbers. The bottom deep is completely full of bees and they have started putting some honey in a few frames up top. Getting more hopeful for this hive. They had a rocky start with a bad queen and some laying workers, but made a queen from a frame of brood I put in.

Saw one bee with a mite on it. Picked the bee off and squashed it. No signs of wing problems and didn't see any other mites with close inspection of all frames. This hive has OA shop towels. They are getting pretty covered in propolis, so I scraped them off and tucked the scraps between the frames to force the bees to deal with them. Time to make another batch though. This hive has one frame with maybe a two-inch area of capped brood, and only eggs elsewhere that I could see. So the great majority of the mites should be on adult bees.

Zero yellow jackets going into the traps. I was eating outdoors, a rib, and within seconds YJs were homing in on that meat. So I left a little meat on the bone and dropped it into a trap. Zero results. So far they reject raw chicken, raw pork, cooked pork, and fruit. I see them scavenging dead bees off the concrete. Maybe I should load a trap with dead bees, but I don't have many handy.

Garden is closing down except for greens. May get a late green bean crop. The watermelons were plentiful but poor quality this year, mushy and not sweet. Only one really good one so far, but have a bunch sitting in the garage so may get a few more good ones. Cantaloupe were good, mostly, but the last few were quite bitter and we threw them away. No more until next July. Picked and husked the last corn for next year's seed. Very good corn year in spite of the drought. 

Busy at work with COVID again.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Finally a decent rain.


Same here- I was thankful to receive it.

Sorry to hear that COVID is on the rise where you are. It is still high around here, but finally starting to slowly recede.

After two recent trips to the E/R, I was very impressed with how kind and unfailingly professional everyone was despite the obvious stress and high workload- you're doing yeoman's work.

All my wife's nursing friends comment that she should be glad she's not working in the field anymore- I hate to hear that so many in this profession feel that way.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> This hive has one frame with maybe a two-inch area of capped brood, and only eggs elsewhere that I could see. So the great majority of the mites should be on adult bees.


Then why don't you OAD - perfect timing.
You already have been doing OAM on them - just dribble given this opportunity and call it the season.


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## AR1

GregV said:


> Then why don't you OAD - perfect timing.
> You already have been doing OAM on them - just dribble given this opportunity and call it the season.


What? And risk learning something new? 
Actually I have been thinking about doing just that. Tomorrow is a day off of work so I have time.


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Same here- I was thankful to receive it.
> 
> Sorry to hear that COVID is on the rise where you are. It is still high around here, but finally starting to slowly recede.
> 
> After two recent trips to the E/R, I was very impressed with how kind and unfailingly professional everyone was despite the obvious stress and high workload- you're doing yeoman's work.
> 
> All my wife's nursing friends comment that she should be glad she's not working in the field anymore- I hate to hear that so many in this profession feel that way.


Hope your ER trips were nothing too serious!

Re the nursing profession, the workload doesn't bother me, but getting a 'raise' that is considerably lower than the rate of inflation sure does. The bean-counters don't appear to understand that the reason why we have lost so many experienced staff, and are not retaining our new hires any longer than it takes them to get trained, is that we all know we can make a lot more money just by tossing out a few resumes, or going on the road as travel nurses.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> What? And risk learning something new?
> Actually I have been thinking about doing just that. Tomorrow is a day off of work so I have time.


Right; what about learning something new? 
I have quickly become a fan of OAD (the procedure itself) - it is simply done while doing a routine inspection IF the colony is brood-less (or near brood-less). 

I have since bought a bottle of lactic acid on Amazon and thinking of a possible LAD in pre-winter on brood-less colonies.
Ideally, it would be the colonies with terminal mite counts where I have nothing left to loose and might as well give it a try.
The lactic acid is food grade for wine/beer making - not a contaminant.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Right; what about learning something new?
> I have quickly become a fan of OAD (the procedure itself) - it is simply done while doing a routine inspection IF the colony is brood-less (or near brood-less).
> 
> I have since bought a bottle of lactic acid on Amazon and thinking of a possible LAD in pre-winter on brood-less colonies.
> Ideally, it would be the colonies with terminal mite counts where I have nothing left to loose and might as well give it a try.
> The lactic acid is food grade for wine/beer making - not a contaminant.


I looked up Randy Oliver's version, looks pretty easy. Now to get some syringes.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Hope your ER trips were nothing too serious!


Thanks, AR1. For myself I had a bout of passing-out 3 times in a 24 hour period followed by the feeling I had an anvil on my chest. After a battery of tests they concluded I have some condition they want to confirm with a 'tilt table test' at a cost of $8.1K. My primary care physician said it was benign, so I'll pass on the test. Thankfully no more passing-out.

Then, our 4 year old son got really sick with what turned out to be RSV and Pneumonia. He got to spend almost a week at Vandervilt Children's Hospital, but is now thankfully back to his happy, energetic self.

In both cases, our medical team were connsumate professionals and demonstrated a great deal of skill and care. Made me really appreciate the work you're doing.

BTW, my E/R nurse was a guy from Arkansas- said he was killing it doing travel nursing and that it suited his current season in life.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> I looked up Randy Oliver's version, looks pretty easy. Now to get some syringes.


I got myself a simple spray bottle in a hardware store and called it done.


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## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> I looked up Randy Oliver's version, looks pretty easy. Now to get some syringes.


I was going to go the spray bottle route, I like it, but, since I already had the syringes, due to cattle meds. I decided to go ahead today and do my first ever OA dribble.

Other than getting over my 'nervous nellie' hesitancy to mix an acid, it was painless and very easy. I filled all three syringes, walked out to the hives and in 2 min. they were done. I read Randy Olivers write up on how to safely use OA and it brought me down to earth.

I learned something new today.


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## AR1

Saw something a bit odd today. A bee was scouring the patio concrete, picking up and removing bits and pieces of dead bees. She kept at it quite a while in a search pattern all around the hive. Never saw that behavior before. I have seen bees drag out a dead bee, drop it and then go pick it up and fly away with it. But never a bee cleaning up every random bit on the ground. 

These bees seem the neatest and cleanest bees I have had, and the insides of the hives are spotless, nothing at all left on the floor. Kind of like when you visit someones house and you immediately know if they are clean fanatics, average neat, or kind of lazy about it all. These bees make my wife look like a slob, and my wife leans towards the fanatic clean side!


----------



## AR1

Bad news on the yellow jacket threat. Visited the 2 hives at the farm this morning. It was quite cool, and I spotted a cluster of YJs on the hive itself and in the weeds near the entrance. I was able to stomp and smash a dozen or so. Later as it warmed up I saw more buzzing the entrances. The bees were fighting pretty hard and several YJs got balled as I was watching. But I did see some manage to enter the hives. I shut one hive entrance down to a single bee space, and the other to about 2 inches. Hope it helps.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> I shut one hive entrance down to a single bee space, and the other to about 2 inches. Hope it helps.


Should have done long ago. I got no YJ problems.


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## AR1

Back to the farm today. The bees looked good, and only saw one YJ. Later I squashed dozens, but I'll explain that further down.
The weaker hive was reduced to one deep box, and given some sugar. A second deep stuffed with insulation is now on top. The hive had had a deep on top with some honey that I had planned to move down, just 2 frames, but those frames were dry today so I figure it got eaten this last week of cool, rainy weather. Thus the sugar. I have modest hopes for this hive to survive, but I have had weaker ones make it, so some hope.

The other hive is stronger, and in 3 mediums. It was 4 mediums but the top box was mostly empty, just 5 frames with some honey that I moved down to the 3rd box. It is full of bees and very active on this nice, warm, sunny day. They survived last winter's bitter cold and heavy snow in this same configuration, so I have hopes. 

Squashing yellow jackets, such satisfaction! There is an old pear tree with nearly inedible, hard pears. This year the pears are better than usual, and the wasps were clustered all over them in bunches. I suspect that is why they are not bothering the bees, they found something easier to get. So I stomped a dozen pears on the ground covered with YJs. Wasted effort, probably, but it did cut the number of YJs.

It's the season of 'lasts'. I ate the last little watermelon today, and the last little cantaloupe while working in the garden. Both had been left behind weeks ago when I did a big harvest. I expected that neither would be very good, but the watermelon was good, and the cantaloupe good enough to eat if not very sweet. I picked the last few zucchini. The plants are trying to bloom again, but a hard frost is predicted for the next few nights, so that's it. Same for green beans. There are a lot of tomatoes, so I picked a bag full of green ones, and the last few ripe ones. There may be a few that survive the frost, but not many. There are still a few grapes left, but they also will be gone soon. At dinner tonight we had 5 vegetables from our garden. It is downhill from here.


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## gww

Supposed to freeze tomorrow night and so I dug the mud for half of my sweet potatoes but am so out of shape that I have to try and get the other half tomorrow. Have you ever tried pear pie. It is actually pretty good.
Cheers
gww


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> There is an old pear tree with nearly inedible, hard pears


We've got one of these too, and the deer and raccoons love the fruit. Looks like we're still a couple of weeks out from a hard frost, but last year's first freeze was on November 1st.


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## AR1

gww said:


> Supposed to freeze tomorrow night and so I dug the mud for half of my sweet potatoes but am so out of shape that I have to try and get the other half tomorrow. Have you ever tried pear pie. It is actually pretty good.
> Cheers
> gww


Was checking pear jam recipes earlier tonight!


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> We've got one of these too, and the deer and raccoons love the fruit. Looks like we're still a couple of weeks out from a hard frost, but last year's first freeze was on November 1st.


Even the animals don't usually eat these pears. As kids we would sometimes dig them out of the snow and eat them. The frost seems to sweeten them a bit. This year they are actually somewhat edible. The weird, dry weather resulted in unusually good fruit this year.


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Supposed to freeze tomorrow night and so I dug the mud for half of my sweet potatoes but am so out of shape that I have to try and get the other half tomorrow. Have you ever tried pear pie. It is actually pretty good.
> Cheers
> gww


Know the feeling. Been digging a compost pit in the garden for the fall leaves, 2 ft deep, 4 wide and 8 long. I know why murder victims are always in 'a shallow grave'. Fill this one in and start the next. But the soil is finally starting to get good.

Picked a bucketfull of those pears. I took the few I had picked and stewed them. My wife gave the thumbs up so I went back and got the rest. The final result is rather grainy, but the flavor is good.


----------



## AR1

120 pears per the wife's count. She weighed the peeled and cut up result, about 9 lbs of raw pear. On the stove cooking now. Funny, she wouldn't let me do any of the peeling/cutting. She says I leave too many of the 'bad parts'. So she spent literally all afternoon peeling and cutting up pears. 

Bees still flying a bit, and still finding pollen somewhere. 20s at night and 50s during the day, maybe a few days in the 60s coming up. Sunny.


----------



## AR1

Cold today, saw no bees flying. Did see a few very large yellow jackets feeding on the pear discards. They appeared quite dopey from the cold. So large, might they be next year's queens?

Spent the afternoon hauling wood from the back yard into the garage. All set for the next few weeks. Fire in the fireplace tonight, first one this season. Cedar, oak, and walnut, all from trees that came down last fall.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Fire in the fireplace tonight...


Same here- one of the simple pleasures of life.


----------



## AR1

Top up! Daughter #1 successfully defended her Masters thesis yesterday. Sounds like it was very well-received. The standard 15 minute Q&A session went on for an hour and a half, and afterwards the profs were asking her when she planned to start her PHD. I told her to wait til they offered her $ and a lab. Her research involved using carbon nanotubes to induce selected genetic changes in chickpeas. Which she accomplished successfully, with enormous implications for legume crop genetics. She is currently working for the USDA on cotton genetics.

In bee news, the bees are flying today, temps low 50s. This encourages me to think these bees may be a bit better adapted to the local climate, since the bees I had last year were very dopey at these temps. No sign that yellow jackets are being successful in entering the hives. Today's task is to cook up some sugar cake. My wife bought 12 pounds of sugar yesterday on sale. 2 of the three hives are low on stores. Those two were a late swarm and a late split, so had no spring stores and none of the hives made much honey over the very dry summer.

Still getting garden veggies. Broccoli, onions and various greens. Even a few tomatoes from under the clear plastic cover. Temps in the 20s and teens coming up next week.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Daughter #1 successfully defended her Masters thesis yesterday.


Congratulations to her- I imagine you and your family are very proud, and here's sincerely hoping she contributes a truly paradigm-changing solution to feeding the world.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Congratulations to her- I imagine you and your family are very proud, and here's sincerely hoping she contributes a truly paradigm-changing solution to feeding the world.


She tells me that a couple 'grumpy old' professors, guys my age and above, were not impressed with her cutting-edge technology, but in the end, other than telling her to edit her paper slightly, they ended up accepting it. She says about a week's worth of editing and she thinks she is done.


----------



## AR1

I have never used pollen substitutes, but am considering trying some this spring, in hopes of a bit faster buildup and more splits next year. Now to research home-made sub.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> She tells me that a couple 'grumpy old' professors, guys my age and above, were not impressed with her cutting-edge technology, but in the end, other than telling her to edit her paper slightly, they ended up accepting it. She says about a week's worth of editing and she thinks she is done.


Looking back at my own master's paper I am rather embarrassed; it was really a joke to think of it.
But it got the job done - of getting the degree.
No one of my committee was really that serious and particular. They did not pretend to.

I would not care to work on the PhD though - entire different level.
LOL


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Looking back at my own master's paper I am rather embarrassed; it was really a joke to think of it.
> But it got the job done - of getting the degree.
> No one of my committee was really that serious and particular. They did not pretend to.
> 
> I would not care to work on the PhD though - entire different level.
> LOL


I dropped out of my masters program after a year of getting nothing done. Very naive. So I feel more than a bit vindicated by her work. With no pushing by me she is doing the kind of work I wanted to do back in 1988.


----------



## AR1




----------



## AR1

Temps low 30s. Open the hives and added sugar blocks on top. Two already had some sugar and had eaten most of it. One is still in the lowest box and has two mediums to work their way up into, but they also got a block of sugar. I also put a medium full of insulation on top of that one. The others had already gotten their insulation.

The biggest hive gave me a shock. Opened the top and nothing. No bees, no hum, nothing. Took off the top medium and still nothing! Then I saw a bee and heard a faint hum. Tipped the brood box back and found the bees, all clustered right at the base. That was a relief. Put up snow guards too.


----------



## AR1

Low 50s, sunny, bees out in large numbers. Some even bringing in pollen. It may be my imagination, but these bees appear very large. Winter bees? A little of the sugar I gave yesterday is being hauled out.


----------



## AR1

Sunny and 50s on Dec 2! Bees flying and pollen coming in, a little.


----------



## gww

71 here. Still bees at the entrance of 6. Did not see any pollen but did see the bees checking all incoming bees pretty hard and so they might be pressuring each other a bit.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> 71 here. Still bees at the entrance of 6. Did not see any pollen but did see the bees checking all incoming bees pretty hard and so they might be pressuring each other a bit.
> Cheers
> gww


Only seeing the occasional bee with pollen. Makes me wonder if it is really pollen or just some confused bees. Had a few nights with temps below 20 so I can't imagine what flowers are still blooming.


----------



## gww

The bees are working the chicken food pretty hard even if the picture does not show well and I did see one dandelion in bloom though I have never seen bees work single one off blooms before.








Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> The bees are working the chicken food pretty hard even if the picture does not show well and I did see one dandelion in bloom though I have never seen bees work single one off blooms before.


Pretty rare to see honey bees on dandelions. I did see a dandelion a week or so ago, so probably a few of those around somewhere.

Looked in on the bees at the farm. One colony is working the sugar pretty hard, so I had better make up another batch. The other colony has pretty decent stores and isn't touching the sugar.

It has been an annoying week. I have some days off work, but I have a cold (not covid, I checked) and feel fairly miserable. Getting really bored staying home in my room, and work is suddenly offering some rather large bonuses just now, which I can't take cause I feel like...


----------



## AR1

Weather report says 2 degrees F (-16 C) tonight. The first really cold night we have had. A few blips into the teens don't count. Snow tomorrow.

Be interesting to see if the garden greens under the plastic sheet survive.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Weather report says 2 degrees F (-16 C) tonight.


Way to go.
It is time to start another winter phase of the "game of bees".


----------



## AR1

...aaaaaand it's 65 degrees today and the bees are flying, dandelions blooming, a few anyway.

Worried about the fruit trees, especially peaches. Peaches bud early, in fact buds swell in late fall, but too much warmth now sets them up for frost kill. Hate to tempt fate, but we need some cold weather. Fortunately, it's supposed to chill quite a bit by Thursday. Trees in this area need serious adaptability. Some years it is hard frozen ground in early November, but not unusual to have green grass up to Christmas.


----------



## AR1

For your viewing pleasure. Especially minutes 1-5. Dads and grandpas will understand.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> it's 65 degrees today


More concerned about the wind that is coming our way.
Fingers crossed for no tornadoes.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Hate to tempt fate, but we need some cold weather.


Same here- hopefully you all are well out of harm's way with the tornadic activity.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Dads and grandpas will understand.


Always good to have a little help- wonder what the wires are for that run through the volume of the open floor- to keep big critters out?


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Same here- hopefully you all are well out of harm's way with the tornadic activity.


Some crazy wind, but nothing worse. Thanks.
The wires are to support comb since this type hive doesn't have frames.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> The wires are to support comb since this type hive doesn't have frames.


Glad to hear you all didn't have too much trouble with the wind.

I totally misinterpreted the intent of the box- near the end of the video when he is showing the set up from below I thought it looked like the top box had bars in it, so I assumed the bottom box was an elevated open floor- so I suppose he is running these colonies Warre style without bars at all and harvesting by the box. Interesting.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Glad to hear you all didn't have too much trouble with the wind.
> 
> I totally misinterpreted the intent of the box- near the end of the video when he is showing the set up from below I thought it looked like the top box had bars in it, so I assumed the bottom box was an elevated open floor- so I suppose he is running these colonies Warre style without bars at all and harvesting by the box. Interesting.


Some Japanese hives I have seen in videos have a slatted rack at the top, not sure its purpose, either to keep the roof from being glued down or for a bit of air movement. You should watch a video of how traditional Japanese hives are harvested. It's interesting.

Unfortunately in the years I spent in Japan I never saw beehives. My wife has a friend there who keeps bees, so if we go back I may get the chance.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> I have never used pollen substitutes, but am considering trying some this spring, in hopes of a bit faster buildup and more splits next year. Now to research home-made sub.


AR1
I have used the Dadant pollen patties with some success on hives I want to split.
Add the pattie at - 5 days from willow pollen, And a super of deadout honey, on top of it.
Seems some natural pollen helps then to use the fed Sub.
then keep an eye on them they can swarm by Dandelion time, lots of food will make lots of bees.
I also leave the wraps on for this duration.
good luck

GG


----------



## AR1

Bit of an odd Christmas this year. Daughter #1 (and her boyfriend) came down with Covid a few days ago so didn't fly home as we had hoped. Daughter #2 was a day late getting home, today, due to work schedules. But she brought PIE!

Daughters had planned to buy a tree, and it didn't happen, so this afternoon I went in the yard and clipped a bunch of evergreen branches off, and we 'built' a tree with string and branches. It looks...different, but it has lights and balls on it. Smells nice.

Tomorrow, Christmas night, I have work at the hospital. Anticipating a very busy night.

Hope all of you friends are having a wonderful and blessed Christmas. God's blessing on us all.


----------



## AR1

9 degrees F (-12.8 C) this morning, with a nice, brisk wind and sunny. I like this weather. Took my stethoscope and listened to my 3 hives. All 3 still buzzing, so Okay as far as I can tell. Hives have no wrapping, just the 1" wood sides, but a deep hive body on top filled to the top with fiberglass batting. Bottom entrances only.

Dad has had a cold recently, and at 91 years old is pretty susceptible to pneumonia so I take the stethoscope with me when I visit. We were concerned for COVID, but he tested negative and says he feels a lot better, looked chipper too today, so happy about that. All in all a good day today.

Hugely busy at work in the hospital. Pretty much all covid all the time again. Just my anecdotal experience, but it seems big guys are uniquely vulnerable. Not just fat, but the burly, muscular guys with fat just seem to really take it hard. Hardly ever see a skinny covid patient even get admitted, or stay for long if admitted, unless something else is going on.


----------



## gww

My son in-law is big and refuses to get vaccinated and that is what I keep telling him and my daughter. Yea, you might get lucky but I would hedge my bet as much as possible. 
Cheers
gww

Ps please take this dark humor in a friendly way if it is not tasteful. Picking on the big guys is how god is messing with the health care workers. They are harder to turn over.


----------



## Litsinger

gww said:


> Cheers
> gww


GWW:

I was just wondering how you were doing. Glad to see your post. 

Happy New Year, and I sincerely hope all is well with you and your family.


----------



## gww

Russ
So far so good. Hope all is well with you also and hope it stays that way.
Cheers
gww


----------



## Litsinger

gww said:


> So far so good. Hope all is well with you also and hope it stays that way.


Glad to hear it, my friend. We are all well by God's grace- 2021 was a wild ride, however!

I'll look forward to the next update on your thread- how are your bees holding up?


----------



## gww

russ


> I'll look forward to the next update on your thread- how are your bees holding up?


Yea, me too. 😀 
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> My son in-law is big and refuses to get vaccinated and that is what I keep telling him and my daughter. Yea, you might get lucky but I would hedge my bet as much as possible.
> Cheers
> gww
> 
> Ps please take this dark humor in a friendly way if it is not tasteful. Picking on the big guys is how god is messing with the health care workers. They are harder to turn over.


We use teams on the big ones. 500+ pounds is 6 people to roll.

It goes like this: Age-Cancer-High pressure-Diabetes-Obese-Male. The more of those you have, the higher risk. I don't tell anyone to get vaccinated. Personal choice. Send him this link:









COVID-19 risk calculator, by Leumit Research Institute


Calculate hospitalization and death risks, according to patient risk factors and vaccination status. Model is based on the outcomes of Leumit Health Services insurees in Israel, vaccinated with the Pfizer/BioNTech BNT162b2 vaccine



covidest.web.app


----------



## gww

Ar1
I can't make anybody do anything but I can think it a bit selfish to be scared or resistant on doing something that might help a bit and is pretty proven that it will not hurt. It would be no skin off his nose to take it and if it went bad cause he didn't, I would be heart broken.

I can see somebody being too lazy to get around to it or too busy to miss a days work due to side affects but can not see the fear or resistance based on some perceived principle when there is no real pain in just playing along and it may provide some benefit. Being resistant is not a very charitable position towards others when there is no real risk to ones self.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

Listened with stethoscope to the two hives at the farm. Stronger hive was clearly alive. Weaker hive was more ambiguous, I am pretty sure I heard the hum. They were alive last week. When it warms up a bit I'll open up and check sugar blocks. Hive at home is alive.









Mann Lake 3 lb Package of Live Bees with Italian Queen - BEEIT-101 | Blain's Farm & Fleet


Get your Mann Lake 3 lb Package of Live Bees with Italian Queen - BEEIT-101 at Blain's Farm & Fleet. Buy online, get convenient delivery to your door. Great prices on Live Bees.



www.farmandfleet.com




Order mann lake bees here. I don't plan to. Just hoping to get a couple of hives through the winter!


----------



## AR1

Still a bit cool to open the hives, 24 degrees F, so stethoscope test. All 3 hives alive. Not much hum in one, but it was smaller all along. Waiting for a warm day to check sugar.


----------



## AR1

Got up to 32 degrees so checked the hive at home. Dead. All the bees were clustered in the farthest back corner and apparently starved there. I suspect they were trying to get as far as possible from the entrance during the -14 temps a couple of days ago. Ended up trapped away from food. There was some honey on the opposite side of the box and sugar on top, but the cold drove them away from the sugar. 

Depending on the temps I may check the others tomorrow.


----------



## AR1

On the way home from work this morning, temp 24 F (-4.5 C) I stopped to check the 2 hives. Very happy to see both alive! One hive is still down in the lower box and not touching the sugar. They were a stronger hive all year.

The other hive was a swarm of the first hive, and had some queen problems, so never boomed or made much honey. I gave them a large block of hard sugar on top late last fall. When I opened the hive top, they were eating the very last bits of sugar left at the edges. I had no sugar available there, so I drove home, grabbed the blocks in the garage, drove back and opened them up again. Laid some sticks down and piled hard sugar blocks on top. Hope that does the trick.

Why did these exposed hives survive, and the hive at home, in a much more protected area, died in the -14 F (-25 C) temps last week? All hives have fairly small, lower entrances only, but the two hives at the farm that survived had boards tipped up against the front and sides completely blocking the wind from the entrances. I suspect that the open entrance of the dead hive allowed direct movement of very cold air into the front of the hive, forcing the bees back into the far upper back corner, where they starved. A wind baffle might have done the trick. Last winter I also had a hive die forced up into the back corner farthest from the entrance, and another die trapped on a small patch of brood. Both were somewhat weak hives that in retrospect should have been condensed down into nucs or combined. Some things to ponder for next year.

By the way, the dead hive showed no signs at all of mite problems. I carefully checked the bees for mites, and also sifted through the debris on the bottom board and found none. There was one dead small hive beetle, and a lethargic lady bug. All the hives had OA shop towels on them all fall, so I am calling this a tentative positive sign.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> On the way home from work this morning, temp 24 F (-4.5 C) I stopped to check the 2 hives. Very happy to see both alive! One hive is still down in the lower box and not touching the sugar. They were a stronger hive all year.
> 
> The other hive was a swarm of the first hive, and had some queen problems, so never boomed or made much honey. I gave them a large block of hard sugar on top late last fall. When I opened the hive top, they were eating the very last bits of sugar left at the edges. I had no sugar available there, so I drove home, grabbed the blocks in the garage, drove back and opened them up again. Laid some sticks down and piled hard sugar blocks on top. Hope that does the trick.
> 
> Why did these exposed hives survive, and the hive at home, in a much more protected area, died in the -14 F (-25 C) temps last week? All hives have fairly small, lower entrances only, but the two hives at the farm that survived had boards tipped up against the front and sides completely blocking the wind from the entrances. I suspect that the open entrance of the dead hive allowed direct movement of very cold air into the front of the hive, forcing the bees back into the far upper back corner, where they starved. A wind baffle might have done the trick. Last winter I also had a hive die forced up into the back corner farthest from the entrance, and another die trapped on a small patch of brood. Both were somewhat weak hives that in retrospect should have been condensed down into nucs or combined. Some things to ponder for next year.
> 
> By the way, the dead hive showed no signs at all of mite problems. I carefully checked the bees for mites, and also sifted through the debris on the bottom board and found none. There was one dead small hive beetle, and a lethargic lady bug. All the hives had OA shop towels on them all fall, so I am calling this a tentative positive sign.


all site are3 not created Equal
could have been a fall pollen that had better/best amino acid complex, could be the bees.
if a site consistently has poor performance, I shut it down and move.

IF you think it is wind make a 3 walled shed 6x20 and try that.
One thing I did last year is walk around when the snow begins to melt and look at spot that were snow free.
As it turned out my bees were in a snow bank , while there were spots visible that all snow was gone, and small grass sprouts were present. watch for natural thermo cline differences. or where do the first blooms show up.

good observations, some times it is the little things

GG


----------



## AR1

Well...I got da covid. Just got off a video chat with my doctor, and in an hour will drive to the pharmacy to pick up my meds. Not too sick so far...a mild cold.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Well...I got da covid. Just got off a video chat with my doctor, and in an hour will drive to the pharmacy to pick up my meds. Not too sick so far...a mild cold.


What Vax are you on?


----------



## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> Well...I got da covid. Just got off a video chat with my doctor, and in an hour will drive to the pharmacy to pick up my meds. Not too sick so far...a mild cold.


keep safe and good luck


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> What Vax are you on?


Pfizer. December 17, 2020. No booster.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> Well...I got da covid. Just got off a video chat with my doctor, and in an hour will drive to the pharmacy to pick up my meds. Not too sick so far...a mild cold.


take the docs advice, rest take stuff for immunity.

good luck

GG


----------



## gww

You ain't a big guy are you? Hope you do well and you probably will. Do you get paid during quarantine?
Good luck
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> You ain't a big guy are you? Hope you do well and you probably will. Do you get paid during quarantine?
> Good luck
> gww


Skinny with a basketball-shaped gut. Typical skinny middle-aged guy. Doing fine so far on day 3, mild symptoms overall. No pay, but I don't tend to take vacations much, so I can burn PTO hours.


----------



## gww

Bummer on the pay but sound like you are built like me. Nothing to worry about.
Good luck
Cheers
gww


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Doing fine so far on day 3, mild symptoms overall.


Glad you are doing well, AR1. Godspeed in your recovery.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Glad you are doing well, AR1. Godspeed in your recovery.


Thanks.


----------



## AR1

Bees are alive. Peeked into the 2 hives and saw bees moving. 24 degrees, sunny and windy. It got up to 40 today and is supposed to hit 50 later this week. I hope to get up there during a warm spell and see if they are flying.

I worked last night. One of those crazy blood everywhere nights. I had just showed up, not even clocked in yet when I heard yelling so I run in and a nurse is holding pressure on a bleeding wound. Slap my hands on so she could run call the doc. Fortunately not as serious as it initially looked. Those are the fun nights that I got into nursing for. It was the first day I really felt back to normal energy after the covid, about 2 weeks.


----------



## Litsinger

Sounds like an exciting way to start work- glad to hear that you are feeling well.

It is interesting to me to see the difference in climate- today's high here was 65.

Hopefully your colonies are over the hump and it's downhill sledding from here on out.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> Got up to 32 degrees so checked the hive at home. Dead. All the bees were clustered in the farthest back corner and apparently starved there. I suspect they were trying to get as far as possible from the entrance during the -14 temps a couple of days ago. Ended up trapped away from food. There was some honey on the opposite side of the box and sugar on top, but the cold drove them away from the sugar.
> 
> Depending on the temps I may check the others tomorrow.


do you reduce entrance for winter?

GG


----------



## Gray Goose

Litsinger said:


> Sounds like an exciting way to start work- glad to hear that you are feeling well.
> 
> It is interesting to me to see the difference in climate- today's high here was 65.
> 
> Hopefully your colonies are over the hump and it's downhill sledding from here on out.


wow yesterday here was 20 only 45 degrees cooler.....

GG


----------



## Litsinger

Gray Goose said:


> wow yesterday here was 20 only 45 degrees cooler.....


Tomorrow is a good example of what happens around here in late Winter. The forcast high is 63 and the low is 19 - an almost 45 degree change in temperature over less than a 12 hour period overnight.


----------



## AR1

Gray Goose said:


> do you reduce entrance for winter?
> 
> GG


Not exactly. I use rather small entrances as a general rule. I basically piled wood and shingles and whatever all around the front to block wind, snow and ice from directly hitting the entrances. So there is an open gap but no wind blowing in. The bees had already reduced the space a lot anyway with propolis. The hive that died was the only one that was not blocked by me and not propolized closed by the bees.

Anyway, temps hit 55 so I drove up and looked in on them. Very windy and cloudy, but some bees were flying from both hives. One hive had somehow gotten jostled so the edges of two boxes didn't meet, a long open crack right in the middle of the hive. Since temps are back down to low numbers later this week, and icy rain is expected, I covered the open area with duct tape.


----------



## AR1

Yuck. Peach buds are swelling and getting fuzzy. Way too early. Even the plums aren't doing that yet. Going to be a bad year for peaches, I expect.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Peach buds are swelling and getting


Same here- did Winter structural pruning today and noticed that some Apple and Quince growth didn't even harden off at the tips. Cherries and Asian Pears are getting started too and Mayhaws are getting ready to bloom.


----------



## AR1

Getting into what I believe is the hardest season for the bees. Temps running from 50+ some days down to close to zero day to day. Wet, warmer days followed by sunny cold days, off and on rain and snow. So, wet, chilly, and food is possibly running short and bees are aging out.

Hoping for at least the occasional warm, sunny day, but nothing like that is forecast any time soon. Make sure sugar blocks are sufficient on the hives.


----------



## AR1

Honey is More Effective than Usual Care Alternatives for Improving Respiratory Symptoms | Medicine | Sci-News.com


Honey is more effective and less harmful than usual care for improving symptoms of upper respiratory tract infections, particularly cough frequency and cough severity, according to a systematic review and meta-analysis of previous studies, published in the journal BMJ Evidence Based Medicine.




www.sci-news.com





For what it's worth, I drank a lot of hot honey tea and coffee when I had COVID. I had a fairly mild case.


----------



## AR1

Temp 38! And sunny! Nice change. Bees in 2 hives alive and active in the hives, not flying. Lots of dead bees out front, so I suppose they had a cleanout day last time it got warmer. Plenty of hard sugar left on top. One hive is using it, the other still deeper in the boxes.


----------



## gww

Put some tobacco seed in a starter cup today. 
Time will tell.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Put some tobacco seed in a starter cup today.
> Time will tell.
> Cheers
> gww


I should mail you another envelope. It's good timing now. Don't bury the seeds, just sprinkle on top the soil. You can put a tissue on top to keep the seeds moist.

50s here today. Bees alive. I cleared away the entrances to get a look, and PILES of dead bees, so I worried, but popped the tops and there seem to be plenty of live bees inside both hives. Both hives the bees were down in the boxes, not up top eating sugar. 60s on Saturday?


----------



## gww

Sounds like you were not set back too far with your little bout of covid. Good.
Cheers
gww


----------



## jdr84

Good luck, it'll be a while yet before I can get deep into my hives.


----------



## AR1

Purchased my first smart phone, one reputed to have a very good camera. My daughters are home  to help spouse and me over the learning curve. Took my first selfie last night, which once I figure out how to do it, I will post here. Hoping to have some nice bee pics this year.

Had a huge wind storm yesterday night, worried the hives might have blown over. Took the girls to the farm to see grandpa and check the hives. No problems. They were out flying in the 60s weather 3 days ago. One hive has a 1/4" hole in the uppermost box-the insulation box. They are using that instead of the lower entrance.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Purchased my first smart phone, one reputed to have a very good camera.


I thought I was a slow adopter.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> I thought I was a slow adopter.


Luddite. I find them intensely annoying. Required to use them at work, iPhone something or other. Can just barely even log in, fingers too fat, and touch screens don't respond well to my fingers. When it takes 5 or 10 taps to get any response at all, and that response is on the wrong space, it's frustrating. My new phone seems to have a better touch screen, thankfully. Next step, learn to text.


----------



## gww

Just got my first one about 6 months ago. My last pictures on my thread is with it and they still are bad and so good luck. Mine is an old hand me down though. I still only use it as a phone mostly. Miss quite a few calls while trying to answer as I too have to tap many times with differing effects. Try a pencil for your typing and see what you think. Another cold spell coming.
Cheers 
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> Just got my first one about 6 months ago. My last pictures on my thread is with it and they still are bad and so good luck. Mine is an old hand me down though. I still only use it as a phone mostly. Miss quite a few calls while trying to answer as I too have to tap many times with differing effects. Try a pencil for your typing and see what you think. Another cold spell coming.
> Cheers
> gww


My daughters tell me I need to get a stylus for precision tapping. One more thing to lose....


----------



## jtgoral

gww said:


> .... I still only use it as a phone mostly. ...
> Cheers
> gww


This is what I use least But believe or not I am an introvert.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Luddite.


I do identify...


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> I do identify...


Bees help keep people away. That hive I had on my front porch...


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Bees help keep people away.


You just need something like this to complete the effect:


----------



## AR1




----------



## clyderoad

OMG what is that?
🤣


----------



## gww

Ar1
Hey, Your refrigerator is decorated just like mine.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

clyderoad said:


> OMG what is that?
> 🤣


Just some random middle-aged guy trying to reach the 21st century.


----------



## AR1

National Allergy Forecast & Info About Allergies


Check out national allergy map, get your local allergy outlook, track you allergies with Allergy Diary, and more features at Pollen.com




www.pollen.com





Put in your zip and it tells you what's blooming!


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Put in your zip and it tells you what's blooming!


This is a good resource. I often wonder how they are able to compile all the data.


----------



## AR1

Good and bad. Good is that my stronger hive at the farm is bustling with bees and bringing in pollen. They look great and still have a medium of honey they have not touched. 

Bad news is that my other hive died sometime in the last 2 weeks. They obviously starved, but should not have since there were a couple pounds of sugar on top, and the cluster was under the sugar. Not sure what is up with that. It was a big cluster too. Lots of bees buried head-first in comb. They were nicely clustered, so I don't think they got separated from food by the last few cold days, 9 degrees a few nights ago. No signs of mites or other intruders.

So, down to 1 hive. 67% loss for the winter.


----------



## Litsinger

Man, that's the pits, AR1. Sorry to read this...


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Man, that's the pits, AR1. Sorry to read this...


It's where I was last spring. I plan to feed them, put a deep on top and split them in May.


----------



## gww

I saw my first dandelion today. I baited my traps over the last two days. The bees should be going to town building up over the next month or less. You are what, two weeks behind me on bloom? Good luck.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> I saw my first dandelion today. I baited my traps over the last two days. The bees should be going to town building up over the next month or less. You are what, two weeks behind me on bloom? Good luck.
> Cheers
> gww


2-3 weeks. First dandelion has been in the first week of April the last few years.


----------



## AR1

I lost two hives (67% of my hives). I am rethinking how I will feed in the fall/winter. Both of the dead hives went into winter with light stores but plenty of sugar block on top. This has worked for me before, but failed miserably the last 2 years, as the bees moved away from the sugar on top during cold spells then couldn't get back to food in time and starved. I said above that I didn't think that happened on this most recent one, but rethinking it (dangerous, I know), the cluster was off center. 

So, going forward, I will lay the winter food directly on the frames over a wider area, not concentrated in the center as I did this and last year. So if they move cluster they have a better chance of remaining under sugar. And, of course, more fall feeding.

Today's task is to make up some protein patty. The ten-day forecast is for min temps at freezing and max temps at 50 degrees.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> I lost two hives (67% of my hives). I am rethinking how I will feed in the fall/winter. Both of the dead hives went into winter with light stores but plenty of sugar block on top. This has worked for me before, but failed miserably the last 2 years, as the bees moved away from the sugar on top during cold spells then couldn't get back to food in time and starved. I said above that I didn't think that happened on this most recent one, but rethinking it (dangerous, I know), the cluster was off center.
> 
> So, going forward, I will lay the winter food directly on the frames over a wider area, not concentrated in the center as I did this and last year. So if they move cluster they have a better chance of remaining under sugar. And, of course, more fall feeding.
> 
> Today's task is to make up some protein patty. The ten-day forecast is for min temps at freezing and max temps at 50 degrees.


I waited with sugar bricks until February.


----------



## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> So, going forward, I will lay the winter food directly on the frames over a wider area, not concentrated in the center as I did this and last year. So if they move cluster they have a better chance of remaining under sugar. And, of course, more fall feeding.


I am not an expert, but the long time beekeeper I got my nucs from told me that if I need to feed on top in our area it must cover the whole top.In a warm spell, which then can get quickly to -30C overnight, you can never be sure where the bees have moved to.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I lost two hives (67% of my hives). I am rethinking how I will feed in the fall/winter. Both of the dead hives went into winter with light stores but plenty of sugar block on top. This has worked for me before, but failed miserably the last 2 years, as the bees moved away from the sugar on top during cold spells then couldn't get back to food in time and starved.


This is one of those Lang problem that are more pronounced in colder climate - wide frames in 8-10f setup allow the bees wander about too much - then you have what you have.
This is why it is required to have very strong clusters when wintering in Langs.
Another approach is to winter Langs in narrow setup (5-6 frames).


----------



## crofter

How far were the sides of the cluster from honey? I question whether they can consume much dry sugar without having water to liquify it.


----------



## Litsinger

crofter said:


> I question whether they can consume much dry sugar without having water to liquify it.


This is a good point, Frank- definitely something to be mindful of.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> I lost two hives (67% of my hives). I am rethinking how I will feed in the fall/winter. Both of the dead hives went into winter with light stores but plenty of sugar block on top. This has worked for me before, but failed miserably the last 2 years, as the bees moved away from the sugar on top during cold spells then couldn't get back to food in time and starved. I said above that I didn't think that happened on this most recent one, but rethinking it (dangerous, I know), the cluster was off center.
> 
> So, going forward, I will lay the winter food directly on the frames over a wider area, not concentrated in the center as I did this and last year. So if they move cluster they have a better chance of remaining under sugar. And, of course, more fall feeding.
> 
> Today's task is to make up some protein patty. The ten-day forecast is for min temps at freezing and max temps at 50 degrees.


consider giving syrup in fall when still warm, like mid golden rod flow.
in cells capped is the optimum way to feed.

the top sugar needs that area to be warm enough to have bees up there licking the sugar.
IF that is your plan , add a box and some insulating material, so the sugar area can stay warm.
add this in time for the bees to seal the edges somewhat.

good luck next year

GG


----------



## jtgoral

Gray Goose said:


> ...
> good luck next year
> 
> GG


And this year with splitting.


----------



## AR1

crofter said:


> How far were the sides of the cluster from honey? I question whether they can consume much dry sugar without having water to liquify it.


No lack of moisture I don't believe. The tops are heavily insulated and the interior was moist. There was wet 'nectar' and sugar crystals in cells away from the cluster, so they were storing the liquified sugar. They just moved away from it. The cluster was tightly packed with lots of bees. One suspicion I have is that the alternating warm/cold weather encourages the bees to break cluster and move around inside the hive. When it chills again they may not cluster in the right place (under the sugar) and therefore starve. So I plan to spread out the sugar next year.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> No lack of moisture I don't believe. The tops are heavily insulated and the interior was moist. There was wet 'nectar' and sugar crystals in cells away from the cluster, so they were storing the liquified sugar. They just moved away from it. The cluster was tightly packed with lots of bees. One suspicion I have is that the alternating warm/cold weather encourages the bees to break cluster and move around inside the hive. When it chills again they may not cluster in the right place (under the sugar) and therefore starve. So I plan to spread out the sugar next year.


Maybe the bees got stuck around early brood?


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> Maybe the bees got stuck around early brood?


No sign of brood. Unless they ate it all.


----------



## AR1

Mites make bees too cold:
The interaction between a parasite and sub-optimal temperatures contributes to honey bee decline | bioRxiv


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Mites make bees too cold


AR1:

Thank you for posting the study- interesting stuff. The part that really caught my attention was the following:

_... we noticed that the sugar intake of mite infested bees is significantly affected, suggesting that mite infested bees suffer from a kind of parasite induced anorexia. In addition, the expression pattern of IRS-1, a key gene in the IIS pathway, suggests that this anorexia is probably elicited by the molecular effects of Varroa parasitization on bee’s metabolism. In fact, this protein is upregulated in presence of the mite but is not modified by sugar intake; this latter evidence confirming previous results about the lack of response of insulin receptor substrate and insulin like peptide 2 to dietary inputs. Recent results showing that the downregulation of insulin receptor 1, stimulates the sensitivity to sucrose and weight gaining by honey bees seem to confirm our proposed mechanistic explanation of the observed anorexia._

So in my dumb country boy logic I take this to mean that the parasitization can induce something akin to diabetes, whereby the sugar ingested is not properly metabolized, thus leading to all sorts of deleterious issues- is that the way you took this with your medical background?

The other thing I was curious about- what is anorexia as a physiological rather than psychological issue?

I noticed that it generally refers to a loss of appetite, especially as the result of a disease:






Anorexia - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics







www.sciencedirect.com


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Mites make bees too cold:
> The interaction between a parasite and sub-optimal temperatures contributes to honey bee decline | bioRxiv





> In conclusion, it appears that mite infestation further than increasing _per se_ the mortality of bees, reduces the capacity of bees to thermoregulate, exposing them to the detrimental effect of lower temperatures. ..........Therefore, it appears that the decreasing temperature observed during the cold season can enhance the negative effect of the increasing mite infestation, further reducing the survival of bees and thus impairing the very sustainability of the colony.


From my recent experience I see clearly how even weak colonies actually winter fine in WI - given a proper setup.
(I have at least *three *sub 5-frame units just made through the winter - crappy queens included).

As soon as the clusters are sufficiently mite-free - even surprisingly small clusters appear to be quite winter-worthy.


----------



## crofter

GregB said:


> From my recent experience I see clearly how even weak colonies actually winter fine in WI - given a proper setup.
> (I have at least *three *sub 5-frame units just made through the winter - crappy queens included).
> 
> As soon as the clusters are sufficiently mite-free - even surprisingly small clusters appear to be quite winter-worthy.


Yes; I stress the great difference between weak due strictly low numbers in relation to cavity size, and weak due to disease and mite infestation. Actually mite infested and diseased is synonymous! More than a few beekeepers are wintering on single story of half frame queen castles!


----------



## GregB

crofter said:


> Yes; I stress the great difference between weak due strictly low numbers in relation to cavity size, and weak due to disease and mite infestation. Actually mite infested and diseased is synonymous! *More than a few beekeepers are wintering on single story of half frame queen castles!*


Granted my setups are more appropriate than "*single story of half frame queen castles!"*
At some point the setup itself becomes the critical path in severe enough conditions.

But still..... Those darn bugs can be very robust if they are in good condition.


----------



## Litsinger

GregB said:


> But still..... Those darn bugs can be very robust if they are in good condition.


I think this is something we all intuitively begin to understand the more experienced we become in beekeeping. As our late friend JW Palmer often quipped,_ 'the bees are surviving despite my best efforts'._

I am reminded that Kirk Webster overwinters his mini-nucs... in Vermont.


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> I am reminded that Kirk Webster overwinters his mini-nucs... in Vermont.


I very much want to try the same.
The wintering super-small colonies has both practical and theoretical implications.
Examples are many (including YT documented examples; I posted some).
It boils down to healthy bees.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> AR1:
> 
> Thank you for posting the study- interesting stuff. The part that really caught my attention was the following:
> 
> _... we noticed that the sugar intake of mite infested bees is significantly affected, suggesting that mite infested bees suffer from a kind of parasite induced anorexia. In addition, the expression pattern of IRS-1, a key gene in the IIS pathway, suggests that this anorexia is probably elicited by the molecular effects of Varroa parasitization on bee’s metabolism. In fact, this protein is upregulated in presence of the mite but is not modified by sugar intake; this latter evidence confirming previous results about the lack of response of insulin receptor substrate and insulin like peptide 2 to dietary inputs. Recent results showing that the downregulation of insulin receptor 1, stimulates the sensitivity to sucrose and weight gaining by honey bees seem to confirm our proposed mechanistic explanation of the observed anorexia._
> 
> So in my dumb country boy logic I take this to mean that the parasitization can induce something akin to diabetes, whereby the sugar ingested is not properly metabolized, thus leading to all sorts of deleterious issues- is that the way you took this with your medical background?
> 
> The other thing I was curious about- what is anorexia as a physiological rather than psychological issue?
> 
> I noticed that it generally refers to a loss of appetite, especially as the result of a disease:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anorexia - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencedirect.com


Had to re-read it several times. It looks somewhat different from human diabetes. In this with honey bees the _appetite_ is actually affected: the bees eat less. Not the case for human diabetics, who appear to me to have a strongly _up_-regulated appetites.


----------



## AR1

I Shouldn't Complain







xkcd.com


----------



## AR1

Our Russ has made the big time:








Observations on Pollen Subs: Part 4- Nectar, Water, and Humidity - Scientific Beekeeping


Observations on Pollen Subs: Part 4 Nectar, Water, and Humidity First published in ABJ January 2022 Randy Oliver ScientificBeekeeping.com Last month I pointed out that there is something about even a light natural pollen flow that seems to increase a colony’s response to fed pollen sub. But a...




scientificbeekeeping.com


----------



## crofter

Lots of information suggesting that hive humidity control / free water availability, may be much more influential than has been commonly recognized. Some of the common practices might have been more hindrance than help to the bees.


----------



## AR1

Made OA towels and patty today. Patty is not firming up as much as I expected, still pretty runny. More sugar? Tomorrow is supposed to be warm and sunny, so I'll visit the bees and provide food. Last time I visited on a warm day they were collecting pollen, but the weather is variable with lots of cold wet days, so I think the food might help.

Started the garden today. Topping the winter compost trench with dirt, and starting a new compost hole. Also took the plastic cover off the greens. Lots survived the winter. I'll give them a few days to adapt to open air before picking anything.


----------



## JustBees

Kamon put a little gelatin in to firm up the patty.


----------



## AR1

Patty is still gooey, but put it on top. Also added OA towels. With the amount of pollen going in there must be brood, so need to get the mite control on now. Got stung behind the ear for my troubles.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Patty is still gooey, but put it on top. Also added OA towels. With the amount of pollen going in there must be brood, so need to get the mite control on now. Got stung behind the ear for my troubles.


What did you use as towels?
I've got some Swedish Kitchen Towels I intend to use.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Not the case for human diabetics, who appear to me to have a strongly _up_-regulated appetites.


Thanks for the feedback, AR1. I suppose my analogy was more geared toward the idea of not being able to properly metabolize sugar. Seemed based on the study the bees were eating the same amount but gaining less useful output as a result of their intake.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Our Russ has made the big time...


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> What did you use as towels?
> I've got some Swedish Kitchen Towels I intend to use.


Some blue towels I bought at Farm & Fleet a few years ago.


----------



## AR1

I thought to add food today, but quite a bit is remaining. Perhaps they don't like it much, or perhaps they got plenty of pollen on the warm days. I am concerned that they have started brooding, but the next 5 days are supposed to be wet and chilly, so they are not going to be bringing much in. This is a tough season for the bees with occasional 60-70 degree days, and long stretches of 20-40. They have plenty of sugar and honey, so I won't worry too much, just wait for the next warm day to check again.

These bees are feisty right now. I hope they calm down.


----------



## gww

I had one buzz me thirty feet from the hive. Hit me five plus times but did not end up stinging me but did get me moving back even more pretty fast. Man it was on me.
Cheers
gww


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> I had one buzz me thirty feet from the hive. Hit me five plus times but did not end up stinging me but did get me moving back even more pretty fast. Man it was on me.
> Cheers
> gww


Suicidal buggers.


----------



## AR1

How can you tell if it is spring? 60 degrees one day last week, but today it is 30s-40s. Snow falling off and on all day. It might hit 50 degrees on Sunday. Really looking forward to a day that is both sunny AND warm. The bees are alive, I can hear them when I press my ear against the hive. They are too smart to be coming out though.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> How can you tell if it is spring? 60 degrees one day last week, but today it is 30s-40s. Snow falling off and on all day. It might hit 50 degrees on Sunday. Really looking forward to a day that is both sunny AND warm. The bees are alive, I can hear them when I press my ear against the hive. They are too smart to be coming out though.


Around the corner. Soon. Almost here.


----------



## JustBees

Spring is here, above the clouds.


----------



## AR1

Warmish, 50s, sunny. Bees out and flying, a few bringing in grey pollen. It appeared most of the effort was in cleaning out the hive, as I noticed quite a few bees dragging out dead bees and various debris. On top the hive they appeared to be taking in the sugar blocks more enthusiastically, so I added a few more small chunks, as the weather upcoming is supposed to be cool and rainy.

My home-made pollen substitute is a bust. It looks like they ate some, but not much.


----------



## AR1

Enjoying a book on Africanized bees written in the 1990s. The first chapter is page after page detailing the various methods used to distinguish African strains from European. Protein electrophoresis. Gene counts. Morphometrics. Etcetera. 

I'm laughing, thinking it might be simpler just to hit a colony once with a stout stick. If a few to a few dozen come out to check you out, it's European. If a few hundred to thousands come out with intent to kill, it's Africanized. Not scientific, but it's what I want to know about them. You'll get the occasional mean hive of Euro bees, but who cares? Same result.


----------



## AR1

AR1 said:


> I'm laughing, thinking it might be simpler just to hit a colony once with a stout stick. If a few to a few dozen come out to check you out, it's European. If a few hundred to thousands come out with intent to kill, it's Africanized. Not scientific, but it's what I want to know about them. You'll get the occasional mean hive of Euro bees, but who cares? Same result.


Further on in the book, I find that a researcher in Costa Rica did essentially this. She categorized the many many swarms based on their response to beekeeper manipulations, and she states that even among those bees that morphologically were in every way 100% African, wings, cells size, body size and several other measurements, many of the hives were only mildly aggressive, and some hardly aggressive at all. Only a small minority were highly aggressive.

Conversely, some hives that appeared in every way European were highly aggressive. She goes on to speculate that there is a wide range of behaviors that can be selected for. Several other researcher-authors note that in South Africa, the source population, many hives are not considered aggressive, while some are.

Upshot for me...keep killing those really mean hives. Might do some good in the long run.


----------



## AR1

Sunny, about 50 degrees, very windy so few bees flying. Opened the hive and took off the top medium. Rather few bees in the top box where the food is, a few walking around and no activity on the sugar blocks, so was a bit worried. Took off the food box and found the bees, 4 solid seams of bees and a fair number on the outer frames. So not too bad.

Sill projected to be cool, 20s to low 50s for the next week before we start seeing days in the 60s. Still no dandelions anywhere. We are a bit behind this year. Sometimes a few dandelions in late March, but not this year.


----------



## gww

I always thought all the fruit bloom was before dandelion but not this year at least. I not only have dandelion but they seem to be more dense then I ever remember them and the bees are just killing them even on the 50 degree windy day. I made a mistake and all my apples are finally going to bloom for the first time. What's funny is my asian pears and my one moonglow only have a very tiny amount of bloom when they have always been loaded in past years. 

As a side note, the tobacco may have came up but it is still so small that I can not tell for sure if it is tobacco or just volunteer weeds yet. 

Good luck with your bees. You need a few traps as it is a big boon to get some for free every so often.
Cheers
gww


----------



## jtgoral

gww said:


> I always thought all the fruit bloom was before dandelion but not this year at least. I not only have dandelion but they seem to be more dense then I ever remember them and the bees are just killing them even on the 50 degree windy day. I made a mistake and all my apples are finally going to bloom for the first time. What's funny is my asian pears and my one moonglow only have a very tiny amount of bloom when they have always been loaded in past years.
> 
> As a side note, the tobacco may have came up but it is still so small that I can not tell for sure if it is tobacco or just volunteer weeds yet.
> 
> Good luck with your bees. You need a few traps as it is a big boon to get some for free every so often.
> Cheers
> gww


Apricot Bush is blooming in my backyard (DuPage County, IL) and Forsythia, too. No dandelions yet.


----------



## GregB

Heck, we have a freezing wind - subfreezing nights all week.
I need to around this weekend to make sure there is no starving.


----------



## AR1

gww said:


> I always thought all the fruit bloom was before dandelion but not this year at least. I not only have dandelion but they seem to be more dense then I ever remember them and the bees are just killing them even on the 50 degree windy day. I made a mistake and all my apples are finally going to bloom for the first time. What's funny is my asian pears and my one moonglow only have a very tiny amount of bloom when they have always been loaded in past years.
> 
> As a side note, the tobacco may have came up but it is still so small that I can not tell for sure if it is tobacco or just volunteer weeds yet.
> 
> Good luck with your bees. You need a few traps as it is a big boon to get some for free every so often.
> Cheers
> gww


No fruit blooms yet, but it does seem the maples are blooming very heavily.

Tobacco starts tiny and stays that way a long, long time, then suddenly grows.

I will have a dozen or so traps out by May 15th. earlier than that is useless. June is our main swarm month.


----------



## drummerboy

We are still snow covered (got another 2" yesterday), ponds and lakes still frozen over, but we may reach 40 on Sunday. 

We're still a few weeks from dandelions, but Maples look like they really want to get going....may be next week. 3 colonies of 6 are still with us.


----------



## AR1

drummerboy said:


> We are still snow covered (got another 2" yesterday), ponds and lakes still frozen over, but we may reach 40 on Sunday.
> 
> We're still a few weeks from dandelions, but Maples look like they really want to get going....may be next week. 3 colonies of 6 are still with us.


I get antsy reading about all the activity going on now a few hundred miles south, swarms and splits and flows going full steam. I feel for you, brother. Looking at my flower dates records, this is definitely a late spring, by several weeks.


----------



## drummerboy

AR1 said:


> I get antsy reading about all the activity going on now a few hundred miles south, swarms and splits and flows going full steam. I feel for you, brother. Looking at my flower dates records, this is definitely a late spring, by several weeks.


Other than the 'extreme fluctuations' we've all been experiencing, it seems like the usual, 'unpredictable' Spring weather is upon us in the Northland. 

Sunshine has melted most of the 2-3" snowfall already, and the greenhouse is 'over-flowing' with abundance in anticipation of future planting. Our summer season up North may be short, but it is eventful and filled with a relatively 'non-stop' flow once started. Not much down time once it begins....at least until October/November....then its 6 months of waiting and fretting.....like an expectant Father.


----------



## PFiji

drummerboy said:


> We are still snow covered (got another 2" yesterday), ponds and lakes still frozen over, but we may reach 40 on Sunday.
> 
> We're still a few weeks from dandelions, but Maples look like they really want to get going....may be next week. 3 colonies of 6 are still with us.


Red Maples are on the verge here in the Northern Lower Peninsula of MI. Pulled the spiles at my dad's a few miles away as I've made plenty of syrup already and don't want to mess with it when they do pop. My Reds here at the house are in a colder pocket and won't go for a few more days I don't think. But then I haven't looked yet today lol.


----------



## AR1

drummerboy said:


> Other than the 'extreme fluctuations' we've all been experiencing, it seems like the usual, 'unpredictable' Spring weather is upon us in the Northland.


I have only been tracking flowering dates for a few years, since starting bees, but this year is looking to be the latest year of the last 5. A coworker told me tonight that she has dandelions at home, but I have not seen any, and I have been looking. So this is 3 weeks later than some years.


----------



## AR1

Saw a dandelion in my back yard, so this year is NOT the latest since I have been paying attention. Close though.
Bumble bees on the daffodils, and honey bees cleaning up some frames I left in a box from a dead out, fun to watch.

Visited my brother today and the bees are back in the wall of his house. I'd be surprised if they were a new swarm this early, but they were not there last summer when I looked, so I don't know. Bees have been in and out of his walls for 2 decades. The location looks accessible from the ground, just barely, so I plan to try a trap-out. First time try for me. They ignored the swarm trap I have had on his porch for the last few years.

Lettuce is sprouting, time to plant the parsley and carrot seeds.

Stopped by Menards to look at wood for a project. Holy cow plywood is pricey right now!


----------



## drummerboy

Plywood/lumber has been outrageously priced for a couple years already.....and we have 2 sheds to build this summer....


----------



## AR1

Plum tree in my back yard bloomed today, more evidence of a late spring. The same tree was 4/15/21 last year, and 4/26/20 two years ago. 2020 was a late, cold spring, and this year is later than that. Peaches are just today showing the beginnings of blossoms on one tree. 

Really looking forward to trying a trap-out from my brother's house wall. Got the materials ready, just waiting for a few days off work, and nice weather to go climbing on his porch roof.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Plum tree in my back yard bloomed today,


Clearly, I am way North of you by about a couple of weeks.


----------



## drummerboy

GregB said:


> Clearly, I am way North of you by about a couple of weeks.


As we are of you my friend....


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> Clearly, I am way North of you by about a couple of weeks.


Amazing what a difference 90 miles can make, but clearly you are a different zone entirely. 

First big thunderstorm of the year, and glad to get it, today.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Really looking forward to trying a trap-out from my brother's house wall.


Going to try the Hogan trap? Since you've got a colony you can borrow some brood comb.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Going to try the Hogan trap? Since you've got a colony you can borrow some brood comb.


Yes, adapted to the materials I got handy. I'll take some pics.


----------



## AR1

Did not get to the bees today or yesterday in spite of decent weather. Garden days, lots of shovel work and got some seeds in. Beans, onions, wildflowers, sunflowers, tobacco. Still a bit chilly for melons or corn. Everything but the beans and onions was broadcast on top the garden. It always seems to work well. My back, however, is telling me that I let myself get out of shape this winter!

Saw the first open peach blossom. I doubt this will produce a fruit, since it was on the end of a branch I had pruned off that got mostly buried when moving dirt. These shoots tend to survive until mid-summer and the heat kills them finally off. Got a few grapes buried like that too. Who knows, occasionally one will survive. Plums in full bloom and waiting for the peaches, next week I am thinking. Supposed to finally get warm.


----------



## gww

I tried a bit of air grafting this year and do not have high hopes but what the heck.
Cheers
gww


----------



## GregB

Just back from apple grafting. 
I feel I have done enough pruning and grafting for the year. 
Time to move on.


----------



## AR1

Visited the bees today, first time to pop the top in a while. Warm, 61 degrees, sunny and calm. Perfect day. Bees were very busy bringing in yellow and orange pollen. I took off the entrance reducer since numbers appear adequate, and bees were covering the entrance within minutes. 

Opened the top, the upper medium (of three mediums total hive) has activity but not packed with bees, some appear to be working the block sugar. Lower two mediums are packed with bees across 7 of ten frames. Did not pull frames. No drones present. Did not add a box, maybe next week. Replaced everything, and left the insulation on top-a full medium box stuffed with fiberglass batting.

They looked good. No signs of bad wings. No obviously visible mites, and I spent several minutes carefully examining them. Huge size variation, some bees big enough that for a flash I thought it was a queen or drone, but not. Some very small. 

For Haplozygousnut: These bees are descended from a swarm that was very dark, black/coffee-brown 3 years ago, with few visible bands. They swarmed again and I made this hive from a tiny afterswarm with a virgin queen. It swarmed again last summer and the dark queen was replaced, now these bees are very typical-looking bees with light colors and obvious stripes. These bees are a lot more aggressive too. No more randomly opening the hive with no veil like I used to with their grandma! I miss those calm, brown, bees.


----------



## AR1

Leaving for a short 5-day trip to East Texas tomorrow. Wish it were longer. I took a whole two weeks off thinking we would spend more time there, but not to be. Daughter #1 is getting her MS degree in Genetics from TX A&M. She has a job already at the USDA working with cotton genetics. 18 hours driving if you don't stop to pee. More like 24 for this middle-aged man!

Let's see, how to tie this in to beekeeping...https://wikifarmer.com/cotton-plant-pollination/


----------



## daddyo1

Ar1, enjoy the trip, 90's all week, no rain.
I have two good splits so far, a third that the jury is still out.
One swarm in my back yard in town, no real action at the land.
Stayed one night in Palwauki on my trip last week, cold and rainy. 
I have 6 more Layans hives to finish building (I'm on vacation). I am not gonna build any more 20 frame hives, to heavy.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Leaving for a short 5-day trip to East Texas tomorrow.


Did you get your trap-out going yet? Interested to read how this one turns out.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Did you get your trap-out going yet? Interested to read how this one turns out.


Not yet. Wife wouldn't let me climb the roof in case I fell and ruined the trip!

Seeing lots of flowers and bees in TX. Dallas Arboretum was nice.


----------



## daddyo1

AR1 said:


> Not yet. Wife wouldn't let me climb the roof in case I fell and ruined the trip!
> 
> Seeing lots of flowers and bees in TX. Dallas Arboretum was nice.


Oh yeah man! We have flowers going on all year! Starting with the blue bonnets, Mexican hats, and a zillion others one after the other!
I'm at my land in moody Texas, you'll go right past us going through waco, then temple on to college Station.
We busted out some 9mm and had a little AR fun tonight as well.
I'll Finnish the lid on my top bar trap and put it out tomorrow.
Gotta go! This beer isn't gonna drink itself!!


----------



## AR1

daddyo1 said:


> Oh yeah man! We have flowers going on all year! Starting with the blue bonnets, Mexican hats, and a zillion others one after the other!
> I'm at my land in moody Texas, you'll go right past us going through waco, then temple on to college Station.
> We busted out some 9mm and had a little AR fun tonight as well.
> I'll Finnish the lid on my top bar trap and put it out tomorrow.
> Gotta go! This beer isn't gonna drink itself!!


Yep flowers everywhere. By the way, the mammoth museum is worth a stop if that sort of thing interests you. We spent maybe an hour there.


----------



## AR1

A thought on mite resistance. I was considering the folks here who seem to do well with TF bees, and those of us who do not. It occurred to me that one common aspect of the successful people is a highly variable season, alternating strong flows and hard dearths. We unsuccessful ones in our suburban environments may not see much of a summer dearth depending on weather, due to the highly variable and exotic species people plant around their homes. After reading a lot about Africanized bees and their African progenitors, and also the habits of 'Russian' mite resistant bees, I got to thinking about how flow/dearth and egg-laying seasonality might play a part. 

Italian queens are famous for laying heavily all year with few brood breaks, and little variability or correlation to nectar flows/dearths. They just keep laying, sometimes even in mid-winter. Ideal for migratory beekeepers who follow the flow as they always will have a strong workforce and constantly replace lost workers. They are also noted to be highly mite-susceptible. 

Africanized bees are descended from from the subspecies Apis mellifera scutellata. In South Africa they faced highly variable nectar flows and frequently abscond, the whole swarm flying sometimes several hundred miles in search of nectar. Bee numbers fluctuate sharply and egg-laying is highly variable, cut off quickly when resources are poor and building up quickly when a flow is found. They are highly mite-resistant. I imagine that a worker bee carrying a mite might not be able to survive a 200-mile flight, reducing the mite population even more.

Russian bees are said to winter in very small colonies and explode in growth once a spring flow starts, and to cut off laying quickly during dearths. They are said to be fairly mite-resistant.

My thought is that pulsed egg-laying with long gaps may be what is going on here resulting in improved resistance. A queen will not lay eggs for long periods, then suddenly will lay large numbers while a flow lasts, then stop cold again at the dearth. The mites can't keep up. At the beginning of egg-laying all the live mites flood into cells and reproduce, and keep doing this as long as laying lasts. But if the flow is short, the mites can't build numbers, not enough generations. 

Add in behaviors like grooming, mite-biting, absconding, and infected brood removal to reduce mite populations between laying seasons, and you may get a resistant bee. 

I predict that queens that are highly responsive to the flow-dearth cycle, and which are situated in an area with a strong flow-dearth cycle, will be more mite resistant than a queen which is less responsive to the flow.


----------



## AR1

Thoughts on my trip.

Staying awake 30 hours straight. Caffeine/nicotine/Sudafed in combination will keep you alert.
Also, you will not fall asleep when you finally do stop moving.
People who wave their hands when talking should not drive in Texas during rush hour. Just sayin'.
Texans actually obey their speed limits! Color me surprised, but then, the speed limits are a lot higher than Illinois. A road that here would have a 55 mile/hr limit was 70 in TX.
Texas is stuffed full of beautiful ladies. If I were young, dumb, and single...
Bees everywhere I looked. Lots of bees. Lots of flowers. It was fun identifying the plants I recognized from home, and all the new ones.
It was green. I imagine Kansas/Oklahoma/Tx as dry states, but everything was lush green. Too many western movies as a kid colored my imagination.
Armadillos are tough. Car hits them and they die, but they don't squash down properly like a racoon does. Like rubber.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I imagine Kansas/Oklahoma/Tx as dry states, but everything was lush green.


The farther West you drive, the drier it gets- Amarillo is much drier than Dallas. Where I grew up in NE New Mexico, we got 17 inches of rain a year on average.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> A thought on mite resistance. I was considering the folks here who seem to do well with TF bees, and those of us who do not. It occurred to me that one common aspect of the successful people is a highly variable season, alternating strong flows and hard dearths. We unsuccessful ones in our suburban environments may not see much of a summer dearth depending on weather, due to the highly variable and exotic species people plant around their homes.


Sure.
Here is a rather common scenario typical for a Northern suburbia (the one I live in):

long and near-continuous summer flow May through September (~5 months)
high representation of the pollinator-grade bees (annually re-imported after the pollination is finished in CA and the South)
these two factors alone create explosive mite situations by August/September and into the fall/winter


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I imagine Kansas/Oklahoma/Tx as dry states, *but everything was lush green.*


But it is May. LOL
Go back in July and look again. 

No, I don't miss KS a bit.
Starting June through rest of the year it is hot, hot, hot and dry, dry, dry.
Save for the golf courses - that's where the water is wasted with no limits.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Armadillos are tough. Car hits them and they die, but they don't squash down properly like a racoon does. Like rubber.


Yah.
As for the road pizza, it is deer in WI, but the armadillos down there.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> But it is May. LOL
> Go back in July and look again.
> 
> No, I don't miss KS a bit.
> Starting June through rest of the year it is hot, hot, hot and dry, dry, dry.
> Save for the golf courses - that's where the water is wasted with no limits.


I visited East Texas in August a few years ago, and it was pretty green then.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> Yah.
> As for the road pizza, it is deer in WI, but the armadillos down there.


Driving across Iowa at 0330 I slammed on the brakes and just avoided massacring a herd of deer. Fortunately had the brights on, and was driving fairly slowly, so got stopped in time.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> I visited East Texas in August a few years ago, and it was pretty green then.


The very East TX very well maybe - the gulf moisture.
But, say, Austin in August? 
Not green.


----------



## daddyo1

You guys need a referee?😆
I live between Waco and Austin, my Apiary is outside Moody. 
It's bloody hot from about July through September. (I'll be watering trees by the end of July for sure. If you run out of drinking water while watering you get in the truck and go get more!!!) The rest of the year it's pretty mild. I'm usually done mowing my yard very often by end of July. 
Last year I caught swarms all the way until September.
AR1, glad you enjoyed your trip!!! The heat will be showing up soon in earnest for sure. really enjoy your input.
GregB, Jeez! Those double frames gotta go 20lbs when full of honey!!!! Also enjoy your input as well. 
I'm headed for Saint Louis in the morning for a week (Beers will be drank, music will be played!!! A week in my brothers studio!!!), I'll be itching to get back and check my traps when I return, can't wait!!! (I have got to crack the code on how to build decent hive roofs for my hive!!!)
5 days off after that and back on the road. 445 days until retirement.
good luck gang!!!!


----------



## AR1

daddyo1 said:


> You guys need a referee?😆
> I live between Waco and Austin, my Apiary is outside Moody.
> It's bloody hot from about July through September.


It was low 90s the whole daytime I was there. Very pleasant, no need to aircondition yet.


----------



## daddyo1

AR1 said:


> It was low 90s the whole daytime I was there. Very pleasant, no need to aircondition yet.


Hahahaha!!! I know! I was there! Spent Friday through Sunday in Moody at the land. It's pleasant in the evening. Sat on the deck drinking suds, and watching lightning bugs! (Came back a couple years back, maybe there is hope?)
Really glad you enjoyed your visit to Texas. Hope you get back soon!!


----------



## AR1

Back to bees. Warm and sunny.
Dug into my only hive. Brood area, 2 mediums, is nicely packed with bees and brood. Very little activity in the upper box except a few bees gnawing on the sugar block. The box is quite light now so not much honey left, and not a lot in the brood box either, though lots of pollen. I will probably put on another block of sugar, which I didn't expect this season.

Cut out a small block of drone brood and checked for mites. Zero. A few drones wandering the frames, and a few queen cells built but not inhabited yet. Plan to split in 2 weeks.


----------



## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> It was low 90s the whole daytime I was there. Very pleasant, no need to aircondition yet.


Oh my!!! Low 90s up here and nobody functions at all. AC running, people complaining and no way I go outside because you cannot breath the air is so warm. 80 is my max LOL and even then I fade by 2:00 in the afternoon.


----------



## daddyo1

ursa_minor said:


> Oh my!!! Low 90s up here and nobody functions at all. AC running, people complaining and no way I go outside because you cannot breath the air is so warm. 80 is my max LOL and even then I fade by 2:00 in the afternoon.


Hahahaha!!! Back in 95 I was transferring fro the 6th Cavalry (UH-60 Blackhawk) in Fort Hood to an airplane unit in Fort McCoy Wisconsin. The unit sent an aircraft down to pick up me and my wife so we could look for a place to live. When they picked us up it was about 98 in Hood. when we got to McCoy to check into to the guest quarters it was about 85 degrees. The wife and I thought it was comfortable, the ladies at the front desk were panting and fanning themselves with magazines!!!!!
It will get cold here in the winter, but usually a couple days later it's back up in the 60's or 70's. (Haven't shoveled snow in decades!!!)


----------



## ursa_minor

daddyo1 said:


> The wife and I thought it was comfortable, the ladies at the front desk were panting and fanning themselves with magazines!!!!!


Just goes to show that we humans become as conditioned to our environment as some bees. I am pre-wired for the cold. I love winter and when it gets to a sunny 0 C degrees in Jan. it is positively balmy with people removing their coats, but give us that same temperature in May/June and we become cranky. Gee, that sounds like one of my hives .


----------



## BEE J

One of the things I like about VA is that it gets, pretty much, all 4 seasons. Although Texas's is pretty neat too!
By the way Ursa, my relatives are from Ontario.


----------



## GregB

daddyo1 said:


> When they picked us up it was about 98 in Hood. when we got to McCoy to check into to the guest quarters it was about 85 degrees.


Years ago we relocated from KS to WI.
Mid-July.
80F-85F

Our new WI neighbors did nothing but complain, complain, complain. 

We were all smiles and really enjoyed the *very pleasant and cool WI summer weather* - the real reason we dumped KS.


----------



## BEE J

We should start a thread about were we all are from!😄 I've never lived outside of Virginia.


----------



## AR1

BEE J said:


> We should start a thread about were we all are from!😄 I've never lived outside of Virginia.


Illinois and Florida in the US. Guatemala and Japan outside the US. 17 years total overseas. Guatemala was where I first got a little experience with bees, in the 1980s, before Africanized came in.


----------



## BEE J

AR1 said:


> Illinois and Florida in the US. Guatemala and Japan outside the US. 17 years total overseas. Guatemala was where I first got a little experience with bees, in the 1980s, before Africanized came in.


I feel I maybe shouldn't take this thread off topic but.. what were you doing in South America and Japan? Were you with the U.S. Army?


----------



## AR1

No. Peace Corps 2 years In G. Worked for private companies 15 years in J.
This thread is getting far off topic! Back to bees.

I worked outdoors all day today and saw only one bee. A bumble bee. None of my empty hives sitting outside is getting scouted. I think we are 2 weeks out from early swarms, maybe more. My one hive has empty newly made queen cells, so they are at lest thinking about swarming, but new queens are weeks away.

My Japanese maple is blooming today, and I saw the first wild raspberries blooming. In the past few years, the raspberries preceded swarms by 2 weeks, so I am hopeful to see scouts soon. I have so far not set out any outlying traps, which must get done soon. Most years I feel lucky to get even one swarm. Never have gotten more than 2.


----------



## BEE J

AR1 said:


> No. Peace Corps 2 years In G. Worked for private companies 15 years in J.
> This thread is getting far off topic! Back to bees.
> 
> I worked outdoors all day today and saw only one bee. A bumble bee. None of my empty hives sitting outside is getting scouted. I think we are 2 weeks out from early swarms, maybe more. My one hive has empty newly made queen cells, so they are at lest thinking about swarming, but new queens are weeks away.
> 
> My Japanese maple is blooming today, and I saw the first wild raspberries blooming. In the past few years, the raspberries preceded swarms by 2 weeks, so I am hopeful to see scouts soon. I have so far not set out any outlying traps, which must get done soon. Most years I feel lucky to get even one swarm. Never have gotten more than 2.


How many colonies do you have, AR1? Do you mean you have never gotten more than two of *your* swarms, two swarms *not* from your apiary, or two *all* together?


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> In the past few years, the raspberries preceded swarms by 2 weeks, so I am hopeful to see scouts soon.


Unsure need to wait with the traps if not set out already.

One of my traps was heavily scouted over the last weekend - not taken yet upon recheck.
Last two days weather is bad.

But still, there is pressure already. 
One needs to realize that those imported package/nuckage "things" are not really running on the local season clock - they have their own clocks and may swarm at any time of their own situation.


----------



## AR1

BEE J said:


> How many colonies do you have, AR1? Do you mean you have never gotten more than two of *your* swarms, two swarms *not* from your apiary, or two *all* together?


2 swarms in one year that were not from my own hives. Most years one, or zero. I have been at this hobby about 6 years.
I have had quite a few swarms from my own hives and have caught most of them.

Right now I only have one hive. Had 2 but one died in January. 3 years ago the bees went crazy and swarmed again and again, went from 4 hives to 12, which mostly died that fall and winter, too small to defend themselves from raiders. I should have been recombining. That was a real learning year!


----------



## BEE J

AR1 said:


> 2 swarms in one year that were not from my own hives. Most years one, or zero. I have been at this hobby about 6 years.
> I have had quite a few swarms from my own hives and have caught most of them.
> 
> Right now I only have one hive. Had 2 but one died in January. 3 years ago the bees went crazy and swarmed again and again, went from 4 hives to 12, which mostly died that fall and winter, too small to defend themselves from raiders. I should have been recombining. That was a real learning year!


I hope you break a record this year! Sorry about the losses, I am hear learning with you. I only have one hive too. And since swarm season is wrapping up, it may be the only one I'll have going into winter.😬😬😬 I'm hoping it will make it. 
Hopefully yours does too!


----------



## AR1

BEE J said:


> I hope you break a record this year! Sorry about the losses, I am hear learning with you. I only have one hive too. And since swarm season is wrapping up, it may be the only one I'll have going into winter.😬😬😬 I'm hoping it will make it.
> Hopefully yours does too!


Don't give up on 'swarm season'. Yes, there is a big rush of swarms, but swarms can keep on coming through the summer. Keep the traps out.


----------



## BEE J

AR1 said:


> Don't give up on 'swarm season'. Yes, there is a big rush of swarms, but swarms can keep on coming through the summer. Keep the traps out.


Thanks for the excellent advice! I just went out and checked my swarm traps. There was one bee at each two traps (I have three), so I'm excited. I hope you catch some too!


----------



## dlted

AR1 said:


> Thoughts on my trip.
> 
> Staying awake 30 hours straight. Caffeine/nicotine/Sudafed in combination will keep you alert.
> Also, you will not fall asleep when you finally do stop moving.
> People who wave their hands when talking should not drive in Texas during rush hour. Just sayin'.
> Texans actually obey their speed limits! Color me surprised, but then, the speed limits are a lot higher than Illinois. A road that here would have a 55 mile/hr limit was 70 in TX.
> Texas is stuffed full of beautiful ladies. If I were young, dumb, and single...
> Bees everywhere I looked. Lots of bees. Lots of flowers. It was fun identifying the plants I recognized from home, and all the new ones.
> It was green. I imagine Kansas/Oklahoma/Tx as dry states, but everything was lush green. Too many western movies as a kid colored my imagination.
> Armadillos are tough. Car hits them and they die, but they don't squash down properly like a racoon does. Like rubber.


Texans follow the road laws because cops are everywhere giving tickets. Texas is a police state with half the population being illegals from the south.(how does that work) Radar at every corner. You can drive fast there if you are a cop or you like paying for tickets.


----------



## AR1

777bees said:


> Texans follow the road laws because cops are everywhere giving tickets. Texas is a police state with half the population being illegals from the south.(how does that work) Radar at every corner. You can drive fast there if you are a cop or you like paying for tickets.


Being an out of state driver, I tried to keep carefully under the posted limits.


----------



## dlted

Good choice, there's not much mercy there for "foreigners" hehe.
Everyone that's not born in TX is a foreigner, I know, I was born there. lol



AR1 said:


> Being an out of state driver, I tried to keep carefully under the posted limits.


----------



## AR1

__





Cool and Rainy April – Illinois State Climatologist







stateclimatologist.web.illinois.edu





This confirms, April was considerably cooler than the norm throughout Illinois, and he predicts May will also be on average cool. Looks to be a continuation of La Nina this summer, with warm/dry July.


----------



## dlted

AR1 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool and Rainy April – Illinois State Climatologist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stateclimatologist.web.illinois.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This confirms, April was considerably cooler than the norm throughout Illinois, and he predicts May will also be on average cool. Looks to be a continuation of La Nina this summer, with warm/dry July.


I can tell you that it is going to drastically change more but not because of C02.
Electroverse - Documenting Earth Changes during the next GSM and Pole Shift

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

Suspicious0bservers 

These three links will give you and advantage in weather forecasting. The sun is responsible for our weather patterns.


----------



## drummerboy

777bees said:


> Good choice, there's not much mercy there for "foreigners" hehe.
> Everyone that's not born in TX is a foreigner, I know, I was born there. lol


As a Texan you must also be aware that Texas (as well as Florida, Missippi, Louisiana, Alabama and most of California) was once considered Mexico. 

The only 'foreigners' residing anywhere in North, Central or South America likely have European origins.....with the exception of African Americans, who began arriving in the Americas as slaves long before the majority of Europeans 'immigrated' during the mid 1800's.....

Thanks for the opportunity to provide a bit of a history lesson......


----------



## drummerboy

"Certainty of thought narrows the mind"


----------



## AR1

dlted said:


> I can tell you that it is going to drastically change more but not because of C02.
> Electroverse - Documenting Earth Changes during the next GSM and Pole Shift
> 
> SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids
> 
> Suspicious0bservers
> 
> These three links will give you and advantage in weather forecasting. The sun is responsible for our weather patterns.


Hi dlted. I have seen the 'Electroverse' site before and enjoy reading it. It isn't 'wrong' or lying. My only complaint is that it suffers from the same bias that global warming panic reports do; it cherry picks bad news to fit a preconceived narrative. 

Every day somewhere on Earth is having an extreme, record-breaking weather event, too hot, too cold, an unusual flood or whatever. Every day, somewhere. It is too easy to add all these up to make any story to fit that narrative. The current drought in the SW USA is a case in point. It is severe, possible the most severe in 800 years. But, it is also right in line with past events. Evidence of global warming? No, or not just that.

Are the poles shifting? Yes. Will they flip? Yes, someday, but the state of science is too crude to tell us when, even within thousands of years. Will it be a disaster when it happens? Yes. Lots of UV radiation will strike the Earth and there likely will be disastrous weather, for years. Humans will relearn how to wear hats and plants and animals will adapt genetically to high UV or go extinct. Bees have survived multiple pole shifts over geologic time periods.

We have no real idea what will happen or what effects this will have on bees. On that note, a thunderstorm is predicted for this area today, and I just heard the first thunder. Off to check on my bees and put out a few swarm traps before it hits, if I have time!


----------



## AR1

Bee trap out day one:


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Bee trap out day one:


Nice work- I look forward to reading about how this one turns out.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Nice work- I look forward to reading about how this one turns out.


No idea. I spent quite a bit of time spraying foam into gaps and cracks, hoping to prevent leaking bees. But worry that the expanding foam may have encroached on the hive. And who knows what the propellent was. if it was something bad for the bees. 

The box is 7 frame in total volume, six actual frames and a gap at the bottom for space. The tube is the kind you use to insulate hot water pipes. Funnel on one end sticking into the box. No brood in the box, yet anyway. I will wait a while and see if bees are leaking. I did put one drop of lemon grass oil in, hoping to attract the queen out of the hive into the box.

Tamest bees I have ever seen. Not one bee paid the least attention to me while doing all this.


----------



## AR1

Made three experimental traps last year, unfortunately caught no bees. Funny, when I went looking for them in my pile of unused equipment to set out my traps, I can only find 2. I have looked everywhere for that missing trap, no luck.

So, either someone stole it (why? who?), or I left it on site last fall (I distinctly remember picking up all 3), or I put one out of three somewhere odd and don't remember, or it is sitting in plain sight and my eye is just not seeing it. Hmf.

On the 'someone stole it' question, well, we accidentally left the garage door open for 5 days on the trip to Texas last week. Except for a robin nesting above the garage door opener, there was nothing amiss, and nothing missing. Pretty decent neighbors (except that one dog).


----------



## AR1

Cool, low 60s, sunny and windy. Bees very active, lots of yellow pollen coming in. Saw the first drone on the landing board this year, presaging swarm season. Set two traps nearby in case they swarm and I miss it. Bees are uninterested in nearby gunfire, even lots of it.

Pulled in some old equipment for cleaning, scraping peeling paint, and repainting. This year everything is going to turn barn red, since that is the paint bucket I found first. Last year it was green or blue.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Cool, low 60s, sunny and windy.


Same here.
And yet I scored a swarm at a place where just a week ago there was not a bee to be seen. 
Some bees are desperate to swarm already.


----------



## drummerboy

28F yesterday AM, 32F right now @ 5:03 AM, but 'might' hit 60 today. 

Bees are 'slowly' responding....dandelions are in full bloom but its too cold to do much foraging, cherries are about half done already and apples are just beginning. 

Hopefully it warms up enough for bees to gain some benefit from the bloom....or else its gonna be 'more' syrup than nectar this Spring


----------



## BEE J

AR1 said:


> On the 'someone stole it' question, well, we accidentally left the garage door open for 5 days on the trip to Texas last week. Except for a robin nesting above the garage door opener, there was nothing amiss, and nothing missing.


There was probably more attractive things than a trap to steal in that garage, so you probably missed placed it. Unless the dog is picking up beekeeping. 😄 

I hope you find the trap and catch a big swarm.


----------



## AR1

Fresh, brightly painted red lids and boxes. I am sure the bees will love them, especially incoming swarms desperate for a snug, attractive new home...(still no scouts). Not liking this chilly weather. Supposed to warm up to 70 on Friday.

Trying something new. Last year I planted a bunch of corn, as usual. Generally just give away in bunches to the old ladies at church for fall decorations. Last year did not attend church due to COVID. So lots of corn. Decided to eat it. Tried soaking it a few days and whipping in the blender and making cornmeal pancakes. Worked Okay. Boiled half the batch-blender-and tried that. Also Okay. Next to try making dry corn meal and using that.


----------



## ursa_minor

What kind of corn, sweet corn or ornamental corn.


----------



## AR1

ursa_minor said:


> What kind of corn, sweet corn or ornamental corn.


Neither. #2 yellow dent, standard field corn There is some ornamental corn mixed in, but not much in this bunch. I'll try the ornamental corn next.


----------



## AR1

Regarding bee trap-out. Brother tells me bees are using the approved entrance. And also going everywhere, including into the house. Some into the basement, some into the upstairs bedroom. Searching, I suppose. At any rate it is mostly good news, if they are using the entrance provided.


----------



## drummerboy

AR1 said:


> Fresh, brightly painted red lids and boxes. I am sure the bees will love them, especially incoming swarms desperate for a snug, attractive new home...(still no scouts). Not liking this chilly weather. Supposed to warm up to 70 on Friday.
> 
> Trying something new. Last year I planted a bunch of corn, as usual. Generally just give away in bunches to the old ladies at church for fall decorations. Last year did not attend church due to COVID. So lots of corn. Decided to eat it. Tried soaking it a few days and whipping in the blender and making cornmeal pancakes. Worked Okay. Boiled half the batch-blender-and tried that. Also Okay. Next to try making dry corn meal and using that.


 I grew up eating these cornmeal cakes.

We called them 'johnny cakes' and there was always enough for our big family. It was a family staple in our home. Cheap, tasty and filling.

I think the corn used was different from today's, but I believe sweet corn would be good this way, especially when some 'Wisconsin Maple Syrup' is lathered on top .....We sometimes made a mush by adding fresh cream when syrup wasn't available.

Thanks for the memory........


----------



## SeaCucumber

"You don't know til you look" makes no sense.


----------



## AR1

drummerboy said:


> I grew up eating these cornmeal cakes.
> 
> We called them 'johnny cakes' and there was always enough for our big family. It was a family staple in our home. Cheap, tasty and filling.
> 
> I think the corn used was different from today's, but I believe sweet corn would be good this way, especially when some 'Wisconsin Maple Syrup' is lathered on top .....We sometimes made a mush by adding fresh cream when syrup wasn't available.
> 
> Thanks for the memory........


It's what I eat every day anyway, so just moving to the step of grinding my own corn flour.


----------



## AR1

SeaCucumber said:


> "You don't know til you look" makes no sense.


Referring to the thread title, or to me? 
The thread title refers to the idea that one can speculate all one wants, using whatever attractive theory, but hard reality may conflict with your beautiful theory. You have to actually look inside the beehive to know what's going on.


----------



## SeaCucumber

AR1 said:


> Referring to the thread title, or to me?


Til is tropical. You're in Illinois. You can't grow that. You're not using a form of English I understand.
Definition of TIL


----------



## AR1

SeaCucumber said:


> Til is tropical. You're in Illinois. You can't grow that. You're not using a form of English I understand.
> Definition of TIL


Ah. I get your point. Non-standard contraction of 'until'. I don't insist on standard English except in a scholarly format. I published a novel some years back, and one of the negative comments I received on Amzon.com was that I sometimes wrote sentence fragments. Well, yes, I can see how that might annoy some people, but it was done purposefully , for effect.


----------



## AR1

Working up the garden near my hive, got stung in the wrist in the first minute, no reaction, mild pain. But that girl gave me no warning, heard a buzz and pow. A wee bit overprotective. I was probably 10 feet to one side of the entrance. I'll just turn the hive a few degrees so they can't see me in the garden. Planted carrots. Had to wear my veil and gloves while hoeing.

Ground some dry corn in the blender. Nice smell. A bit coarser than store-bought.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> But that girl gave me no warning, heard a buzz and pow.


Hmm.
I have been lucky all these years in the backyard.
Pretty much everyone here walks across the bee traffic - I guess my oldest boy got a sting once while mowing.
Of course, I am very selective of the bees for the backyard proper.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> Hmm.
> I have been lucky all these years in the backyard.
> Pretty much everyone here walks across the bee traffic - I guess my oldest boy got a sting once while mowing.
> Of course, I am very selective of the bees for the backyard proper.


Someone asked me if I was bringing a split from this hive home to my back yard. Don't think so. Unless after the split one of the results is notably calmer than this. I don't mind that they are feisty, they are off by themselves on the farm where no one walks except me. I got neighbors with kids though, and my wife wouldn't like to get stung. In the 6 years I have had bees at my house, no one but me has ever gotten stung.

Hopefully I can trap out my brother's bees. Unbelievable how calm they were. Almost stupid.


----------



## AR1

Ovary activation correlates with the reproductive potential of honeybee (Apis mellifera) workers if they are in a foreign colony - Insectes Sociaux


In eusocial Hymenoptera, the laying of male-determined eggs by workers in an unrelated colony can be a powerful strategy for increasing direct fitness benefits. A recent study showed that honeybee rebels, which are workers that develop under queenless conditions and have high reproductive...




link.springer.com





Study of laying workers (here called rebels). Just weird.

_...A recent study showed that honeybee rebels, which are workers that develop under queenless conditions and have high reproductive potential, drift to foreign colonies, with a preference for hopelessly queenless colonies, and act as reproductive parasites...

...rebels are more likely than normal workers not only to drift to foreign colonies but also to prefer colonies that are queenless (Kuszewska et al. 2018)..._

So, laying workers don't stay home! They float around into other colonies, preferring other queenless colonies. But they will drift into any colony and start laying eggs there.

_...In honeybees, workers drift between colonies, and in some apiaries, up to 40% of the workers in a colony are from foreign nests (Pfeiffer and Crailsheim 1998)... _

40%? Really? We like to think bees have a magical navigational sense, but I guess not so much.


----------



## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> ...In honeybees, workers drift between colonies, and in some apiaries, up to 40% of the workers in a colony are from foreign nests (Pfeiffer and Crailsheim 1998)...


Another reason for installing robber screens.


----------



## AR1

Split my colony into 3. What a mess, had to do a lot of cross comb trimming, and a lot of brood was lost. Did not see the queen, but found a bunch of capped queen cells, so all 3 should be fine. Cut out a big chunk of drone comb and found not a single mite!

Very few scouts in the traps.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Study of laying workers (here called rebels).


Very interesting study, AR1. Thanks for posting. I was surprised to see them suggest that it is the lack of QMP which induces 'rebel' behavior rather than the lack of brood as I have always been told. The other aspect that was fascinating (and you already touched on) is the social parasitism aspect - the best take-way summary from the paper IMHO is as follows:

_'Rebels develop in the absence of a queen or, more precisely, in the absence of the queen’s mandibular gland pheromones (Woyciechowski and Kuszewska 2012; Woyciechowski et al. 2017). Naturally, such individuals occur after swarming, which is the only natural means of colony multiplication (Winston 1987). The ultimate factor explaining the rebel strategy is based on the assumption of inclusive fitness theory (Hamilton 1964) and results from a dramatic decrease in relatedness between the old queen’s workers and the new sister queen’s offspring after swarming (Woyciechowski and Kuszewska 2012). The high reproductive potential of rebel workers and their tendency to activate ovaries, even in queenright colonies, influences their behaviour and increases the possibility that they will drift to foreign colonies to lay unfertilized eggs. Indeed, rebels are more likely than normal workers not only to drift to foreign colonies but also to prefer colonies that are queenless (Kuszewska et al. 2018). These findings shed new light on intraspecific reproductive parasitism in honeybees; however, the mechanism underlying this strategy is not fully understood.'_


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> _ and increases the possibility that they will drift to foreign colonies to lay unfertilized eggs. Indeed, rebels are more likely than normal workers not only to drift to foreign colonies but also to prefer colonies that are queenless (Kuszewska et al. 2018). These findings shed new light on intraspecific reproductive parasitism in honeybees; however, the mechanism underlying this strategy is not fully understood.'_


I wonder if this is part of the reason laying worker colonies seem to survive so long...they keep getting new recruits. But how many of these are also bringing in food? 

I also wonder how many of the drones in queen-right colonies were actually laid by workers? Some, it would seem. Supposedly worker bees remove these eggs, but some will get by.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I wonder if this is part of the reason laying worker colonies seem to survive so long...they keep getting new recruits. But how many of these are also bringing in food?
> 
> I also wonder how many of the drones in queen-right colonies were actually laid by workers? Some, it would seem. Supposedly worker bees remove these eggs, but some will get by.


Interesting questions... so much about bees we still don't know.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> 40%? Really? We like to think bees have a magical navigational sense, but I guess not so much.


Let me propose that this has not much to do with the navigational sense.

Rather this is more about the good old idea of - "if you can not beat them - join them".
Even Reps/Dems switch parties. LOL

Some hives just smell better than the others.
Some queens are just more attractive to the bees than some other queens, reportedly (check with @little_john).

As well it was reported that the dark blue hives tend to have more bees than the neighboring hives (presuming that the bees have the favorite colors). So the attractiveness of the home may as well have to do with it.


----------



## AR1

Moved one of the 3-way splits home to sit outside my back door. Sat and drank coffee in the sunshine before heading off to work tonight, 6 feet in front of the entrance. Did NOT get stung. Hopefully these will be pacific enough to keep at home. They got a capped queen cell, so should be Okay. Popped the top briefly to make sure they hadn't lost too much population, and it looks pretty full of bees, and they had some brood capped in the frames I gave them.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Did NOT get stung.


Wait until they grow? 
They are too small to be stinging right and left.


----------



## daddyo1

I hear ya GregB. I have a swarm in my backyard trap at home in town. They are very gentle and don't even react when I mow past them. I'm letting them pollinate the wife's garden. I know they are growing stronger and will hit me on my Snapper eventually. When they do it's out to the land with them!!!


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Nice work- I look forward to reading about how this one turns out.


So far no luck. The house is old with lots of gaps. I initially filled every gap I could see with spray-in foam. The bees chewed through the foam in several places and stopped using my beautiful entrance box. I re-sprayed foam every spot I could see them using, but now suspect it is a lost cause. I will probably end up killing off this hive and filling the cavity with foam to prevent re-infestation. But I will continue trying the trap-out for now.


----------



## AR1

All three splits from my hives appear active, bringing in pollen. Getting antsy to open them up and look for queens, even though it is way too early to expect anything. Only 7 days. One colony got the queen (unless I smushed her) and the others all had capped queen cells. Perhaps tomorrow I will do a quick check and try to figure out which colony ended up with the live queen, and see if the capped cells are opened. Pretty sure I know where the queen is, but not 100% since I never saw her.

Starting a big project (big for me). Front steps have never had a rail, and my dad can no longer negotiate them to get into the house. So I dug out the flower bed and yesterday bought posts and boards to build a wall and attach a rail. Pressure treated wood. Funny how some boards feel light weight and dry, and others from the same pallet are super-heavy and feel wet. Quality control problems? Hoping for some hot, dry weather to dry them off a bit more before I screw them all together. Wet wood attached to dry is a problem just waiting for a result. The store (and the can label) swears that the stain I bought will penetrate this wood, but I have my doubts, especially for those heavy, wet ones.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> So far no luck.


Did you try giving them a frame of open brood?


----------



## AR1

Not yet. When I split my colonies I considered it, but decided I wanted the brood in the splits. It's an idea.


----------



## AR1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_honey_bee_pheromones


List of all the many weird pheromones produced by bees. From Wiki:

Interesting that the 'essential oil' tick repellant I got this spring has as it's main ingredient geraniol, one of the main attractants in Nasonov pheromone. 

Checked my hive and splits today. Both splits have queens. One is fairly slim, probably still unmated, the other is larger but I didn't spot any eggs yet. The hive they came from I did not spot any eggs or larvae, but did see a queen cell. Time will tell. All three are packed with bees, and lots of nectar in the frames. Not much capped honey. Got stung on the neck.

Got a good bit of the garden planted, finally. Sweet corn, squash, zucchini, beans, soybeans, sunflowers today. Carrots, watermelon, cantaloupe, onions a few days ago. Late this year. Dry and cool spring.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> List of all the many weird pheromones produced by bees. From Wiki:


Good to see George Imirie's Pink Pages featured heavily in the list of references- cool read. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## AR1

Checked the nuc at home. Eggs and larvae! Queen was hiding, but she's there somewhere. Tomorrow the other two.

Garden is at the 'rouging out excess tomato plants' stage.


----------



## SeaCucumber

AR1 said:


> Finally got around to cracking open the hives and looking at each frame. One hive wintered in 2 ten frame deeps.


That sounds common.


----------



## AR1

SeaCucumber said:


> That sounds common.


Many of my posts are nothing but my observations of hives. A diary of sorts, to help me remember later what I saw, and when.


----------



## AR1

Looking forward to tomorrow morning. Get off work at 0800, drive to my dad's, check the garden for new growth, then open them hives and check for new queens. Lots of pollen been going in, so I am hopeful for lots of larvae. The original hive was already packed with bees, maybe super.


----------



## AR1

Interesting visit. Nuc has a new queen, a very light yellow. I have not had a queen like that since my first swarm capture 5 years ago. She appears to be laying well with a full pattern on several frames, including some capped already.

The main hive however appears queenless. I took one frame from the nuc and put it in the hive, in hopes of making a queen. But if this hive is queenless, then the original queen probably ended up in the nuc I took home. She is a good queen in every respect except her offspring are a bit excessively defensive. 

All three hives are full of bees and loaded with pollen and nectar, with some capped honey.. I took a frame from the big hive.


----------



## AR1

AR1 said:


> Interesting visit. Nuc has a new queen, a very light yellow. I have not had a queen like that since my first swarm capture 5 years ago.


Got a good look at this queen's mother. Only the second time I have seen her in a year. She's sneaky. Also hard to spot. The weirdest looking queen I have seen. Mostly dull yellow, but with dark spots on the top of her lower abdomen. I have seen stripes, but not spots. It looks like a ring that didn't make it. This queen's mother and grandmother were dark brown with no yellow and no stripes. Will try to get pics, but I usually forget to bring the camera.

Got very active scouting of 4 empty hives at home. Funny, my nuc at home is sitting on top of one of the empty hives, and a few scouts are checking out that empty hive. They seem much more interested in a different hive, and I hope they choose that one instead. Be interesting to see which hive they choose, assuming they are not just playing mean mind games with me. This is only the second time this year to see scouting.

Finally got all my corn planted yesterday, June 16th. By far the latest I have done so. Hoping for decent rain in July, or it's a bust. Got my sweet corn in early June, so that should be Okay.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> I would discriminate the smokes.
> I read/watched testimonials where people swear they control their mites by horseradish smoke.
> The horseradish smoke just might have some impact.
> In fact, it is advised to be very careful with horseradish smoke and not inhale it in any circumstance (appears to be a very strong irritant).


Greg, what was the result of your horseradish smoke? My plants are finally starting to spread, after 15 years in the ground! Love horseradish, but so far have not been able to harvest any. I probably should dig them up and replant in better soil.


----------



## AR1

Just had a thought, and I went back and reviewed all my posts for this year. I have not seen one single mite this year! I have cut out and looked at drone brood a few times, and there were no mites present. None in the small amount of worker brood that got cut out by accident.

My overwintered hive had OA shop towels on all winter and new ones placed this spring.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> *Greg, what was the result of your horseradish smoke?* My plants are finally starting to spread, after 15 years in the ground! Love horseradish, but so far have not been able to harvest any. I probably should dig them up and replant in better soil.


I have no results to produce.
Yes, I tried it few times without any rhyme or reason (end of the summer too).
Bees died the same - obviously.

Basically, smoking bees willy-nilly with disregard to overall context is waste of time (for example, what is point of smoking with the brood in place? no point).
It is similar to doing OAV in some ad-hoc, non-systemic way (while the horseradish has its own way of working (IF true!)).

Now that I have working OA/LA based method, I am not looking at the horseradish again. Besides, the smoke is nasty and not exactly good for my own inhaling either.

Meanwhile my horseradish plantation is thriving - confined to a compost bin.
I recommend you replant yours into a container (where you could make up much better growing setup).


----------



## AR1

Bang! Right on the ear! No warning. Those bees are going back to the farm.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Bang! Right on the ear! No warning. Those bees are going back to the farm.


Back to the farm.
For being this fussy, I hope they have at least something good to show.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> Back to the farm.
> For being this fussy, I hope they have at least something good to show.


They are alive.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> They are alive.


Alive is good.
Same here - I moved away my best (yet feisty) queen into a more remote location.


----------



## AR1

I have one daughter of this queen, too early to know their moods. And one more hopefully on the way. I can hope the wicked gene will get attenuated. If not, I'll keep what I got until I catch something better. 

Have had meaner bees in the past. This hive is quite reliable in sending out one single stinging bee at a time. Tolerable for me if not my wife. The last time I had a mean hive it was 50 bees chasing me around the yard, head-butting the car windows as I tried to escape. Those were some fun bees!


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> This hive is quite reliable in sending out *one single stinging bee at a time.*


This is very *tolerable*.

The only issue is - try to explain that to an unhappy neighbor.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> The only issue is - try to explain that to an unhappy neighbor.


So far they have only stung me when I was close...
But that hive is now at the farm, and it's daughter hive, of unknown personality, is in its old position. Just swapped them. Lots of foragers waiting when I got back. A little tussle at the entrance, but not much. Hope this one is less spicy, but who knows.


----------



## Litsinger

GregB said:


> Alive is good.


The first criteria of any selection program .

I tend to look at defensiveness as a body of work- the mood of a colony (as we all know) is impacted by many factors- but I also understand and appreciate the need to be proactive in avoiding issues with the family and the neighbors.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> The first criteria of any selection program .
> 
> ...appreciate the need to be proactive in avoiding issues with the family and the neighbors.


Interestingly, I told my wife I was taking the hive back to the farm. She asked why I didn't just move it farther from the house. She has no interest in working the bees, or even looking at them that I can tell, but when there is no hive in the back yard, she asks when I am getting one there. Good enough!


----------



## AR1

I have two empty hives sitting next to each other, both being scouted. I suspect two different swarms, as I see a bit of tussling at the entrance to one. 

The second hive appears to be of less interest. But, I watched one bee sitting in the second entrance, head in, butt out and up, fanning like crazy, obviously trying to attract other scouts to her choice. After several minutes a second bee came to see. The two bees appeared to 'confer' for a while, then both walked inside together.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> The two bees appeared to 'confer' for a while, then both walked inside together.


Co-conspirators.
.


----------



## AR1

Exciting morning! Got off work late (14-hour night) and went to my dad's house. Decided to take a peek at the frame of brood I had put into the queenless hive. This is the original mean hive. Discover, upon opening the trunk, that I had left my smoker at home. So I gear up with additional precaution, tucked my shirt into my pants and pants into my socks, making sure the veil is snug, gloves covering wrists.

Tipped the hive back to look underneath. Could not spot any queen cells, and still no brood or eggs so surely queenless. Quickly decide to put in a frame of eggs from the neighbor hive. Lay the hive back down, pop the top and pry out a frame filled with honey and nectar to open a gap. Pop the top of the neighbor hive and remove a frame, quickly slide it into the first hive and slide that hive's frame into the donor hive. Everyone's happy, right?

Not happy. Started taking stings as I pulled the first frame, and continued with more stings as we progressed. I got to be in just a bit of a hurry when I pulled the brood frame. Quick glance at both sides, no queen spotted...slid it in. Really no idea where she might be, hopefully still in the donor hive, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. Replaced the tops and took off for the house. They followed me all the way, and a few got into the entry. None got all the way into the house and I had a nice chat with my dad and brother. But I kept my gear on since the car was still parked out by the bees...

No idea how many stings, a dozen or more, right through my shirt. All stings on my forearms, none anywhere else. Arms still ache 12 hours later. Worst stings I have had since the day I got the bees, when I suddenly learned that bare wrists represent a huge temptation to mad bees. So many stings that day I couldn't count, wrists were covered in bees. 100? 

Weirdly, it was all still fun. Looking at the empty hives at home, still no swarm, but now 4 different hives are being scouted pretty significantly.


----------



## daddyo1

I'm having the exact kind of summer. 1 swarm caught 2 months ago, some splits, 2 laying worker hives, drought.
Oh lets throw in a hell of a bought of flu starting fathers day. (I'm still on the couch with a low grade headache, nausea, and the usual cough that has fallen into my lungs.)
I have completely wasted an entire week off with nothing to show for it.
I'm still very blessed I realize. Markets about to open we'll start there, then were doing the lawn I don't care how crappy I feel!!! Enough of this!!!!!!


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Everyone's happy, right?
> 
> Not happy.


Man, you are just looking to get stung up.
I don't get many stings.
Because mostly I am just afraid of the bees.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> Man, you are just looking to get stung up.
> I don't get many stings.
> Because mostly I am just afraid of the bees.


I don't 'usually' get many stings. This was a special occasion!


----------



## AR1

A nice young queen. Next pic will show the pattern she lays. By the way, these are _nice bees._ I can sit in front of the hive and drink my coffee and they pretend I am not there. This is a daughter of my mean queen.


----------



## AR1

Pattern:


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Pattern:


I cold not help but smile too. 

I will say this - last year some of my VSH young queens laid mediocre pattern.
Come spring, totally different pattern - nice and tight and lots of it.
A totally pleasant surprise and new to me.
@Gray Goose mentioned something similar as well.

So now if the queen is of promising genetics, I'd keep her around even if she seems mediocre up front.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> So many stings that day I couldn't count, wrists were covered in bees. 100?


I've had this happen once before too- got light-headed and it put a healthy respect for this prospect occurring in my mind.

I still take more than a couple to the arms and face when I get careless- the bees always remind me when I goof up.


----------



## AR1

That queen is as I said the daughter of the mean queen. I noticed a few days ago that the neighbors now have a few hives. I have to presume that one of their drones is the father, so any random package bees. Thus the sharp change in color and temperament.


----------



## Gray Goose

so in any "mean" hive 1 or 2 patra lines can be the mean ones, so with even only 12 drones and 2 mean ones
you have a 5 out of 6 chance to not get the mean ones in the daughter.
those needing the assist 5/6 in percent is 83 1/3 percent
20 drones and 1 mean one is better at 95%

I seem to get 4 daughter from one hive all different color and temperament, so hatch a few pick the best ones and dispatch the others.

mean survivor queen have value, just make a bunch of daughters and evaluate the bunch down to the ones you like.

helpful hint, several QCs hatching at the same time, will have the meanest one win the fight. so splitting them and evaluation can be helpful. I have "tested" this a few times.

GG


----------



## AR1

Gray Goose said:


> I seem to get 4 daughter from one hive all different color and temperament, so hatch a few pick the best ones and dispatch the others.
> 
> mean survivor queen have value, just make a bunch of daughters and evaluate the bunch down to the ones you like.
> GG


I have seen the change in personality. Very calm swarm queen had 8 splits, swarms or secondary swarms one summer. 2 of those were a bit feisty, the others very calm. My 'mean' queen is the daughter of one of those feistier queens, with the feisty about doubled. Now, her daughter is back to calm. 

Your second point: I hope to make a few more splits this summer, depending on if they build up quickly or not. So far it has been an exceptional year for pollen and nectar, but it is very dry now, hoping for a few big rains to carry us into July.


----------



## Litsinger

Gray Goose said:


> I have "tested" this a few times.


This is really interesting- so your results have suggested that the 'winning' queen is often likely the 'meanest' of the bunch?


----------



## Gray Goose

Litsinger said:


> This is really interesting- so your results have suggested that the 'winning' queen is often likely the 'meanest' of the bunch?


I would bet on it.

the relaxed girl who just wants a nice glass of wine and sit in the sun, will be taken out by the cage fighter every time.
aggression wins in the fight to death matches.
And some of the calmer queens are actually better queens as far as laying pattern, calmness, running on the comb, lifespan etc.
then couple that with the "most aggressive" drones....

take a batch of swarm cells and split them up, mate and compare, then let another hive fight it out and see how that works.
most I get to, and can split,, however some I miss out on and they seem the meanest almost every time.

exception is the she who gets out first can rule the roost, if she wants to, or swarm....

GG


----------



## AR1

Absolutely nothing to do with bees, but fascinating (if you like history).








On the economic performance of different periods of antiquity


The evidence appears to suggest that the politically decentralized Classical Greek world was substantially wealthier than the centralized Roman Empire




rafaelrguthmann.substack.com


----------



## AR1

Checked my hives at the farm. The nuc is busting with bees, lots of capped cells and some uncapped. I put them in a ten deep.

The queenless hive remains queenless. They did not make a queen from the frame of open brood I gave them, no sign of the one queen cell they had appeared to be making. There are quite a few empty queen cells. Sad. They are building them but have nothing to put in them. I will add another frame of open brood later today.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Checked my hives at the farm. The nuc is busting with bees, lots of capped cells and some uncapped. I put them in a ten deep.
> 
> *The queenless hive remains queenless. *They did not make a queen from the frame of open brood I gave them, no sign of the one queen cell they had appeared to be making. There are quite a few empty queen cells. Sad. They are building them but have nothing to put in them. I will add another frame of open brood later today.


What a great opportunity to just combine the colonies for the ongoing nectar flow. 
I say a no-brainer.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> What a great opportunity to just combine the colonies for the ongoing nectar flow.
> I say a no-brainer.


Certainly one option. I am hoping to requeen. I have another hive that is pretty packed with bees right now, and expect it to be producing swarm cells soon. Will check it tonight (now) in fact. If so, a cell or two will go to the sad hive.


----------



## AR1

Checked for queen cells. None. Plenty of bees and brood in all stages. Hopefully if I keep them tight they will feel a need to swarm and start making queens. In a 5-frame nuc that can happen fast. There doesn't seem to be any dearth yet, and if the rain comes as predicted, there may not be much dearth this year. If. But, I am considering feeding this hive to push growth.

The scout bees are back in force. Bah. They have gotten my hopes up too many times this year. Come swarm if you want to!


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> The scout bees are back in force. Bah. They have gotten my hopes up too many times this year. Come swarm if you want to!


Don't get me started. 😬 😬


----------



## AR1

AR1 said:


> There doesn't seem to be any dearth yet, and if the rain comes as predicted, there may not be much dearth this year. If. But, I am considering feeding this hive to push growth.


Now I am SURE there is no dearth. I scraped a frame of honey, left a band of open nectar. Put the frame out on the deck. Came back after a day and there was leftover honey dripping on the deck, and NO bees or wasps taking that honey! Never seen that before. It is 20 feet from a hive, and they usually find the frame as soon as I set it down. Seconds, not minutes.

Good rain predicted to come in over the next few days. Hope so. Soybeans are delayed this year, but hoping for a flow.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Now I am SURE there is no dearth. ......


Just back from a walk.
My area is full of sweet clovers and thistles and more.
As long as there is periodic rain - this should be a good month.


----------



## AR1

The really weird things you learn when cruising the web late at night:

Geosmin - Wikipedia 

The chemical that causes the distinct smell of rain on dry ground, is also what causes beets, carp and catfish to smell 'muddy', and *reduces honeybee defensive behavior: *

Geosmin suppresses defensive behaviour and elicits unusual neural responses in honey bees | bioRxiv

So...bees are grumpy? Hose down the dirt before opening the hive? Rub your gloves with mud? I do know that rubbing dust or dirt on gloves seems to take away whatever is attracting mad bees.


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> So...bees are grumpy? Hose down the dirt before opening the hive? Rub your gloves with mud?


Cool stuff, AR1. Thanks for posting.


----------



## AR1

61st birthday today! A day well spent, ate steak and fresh-picked berries. Worked on my project, a flower bed in front of the house, peeked in all 3 hives and added a frame of brood to one, worked in the garden transplanting cantaloupes and watermelons. Capped it with a walk in the local nature preserve with daughter #2 and wife.










The park has beehives, which my daughter was supposed to show me. The daughter with the famously poor navigation skills. She promises to find the hives tomorrow and take me another day...


----------



## AR1

Bees moved from a nuc on July 1st to a ten deep are doing very well. They seem to appreciate the extra space and are filling up the frames. Nice to see. Queenless hive got a frame of eggs and brood today, all ages. The frame I had given them before is hatching out. Hoping for some queen cells. The hive at home was the donor. It's a nuc, but busting with bees and lots of brood. No signs of queen cells in any hive.

Scouting activity is ongoing but at a low level in several empty boxes.


----------



## AR1

Hm. Frame of brood inserted into the queenless colony has no queen cells. Most of the brood has been capped except what was the youngest eggs, which is now larvae. In all other respects the hive looks great, lots of honey and open nectar, healthy bees. But they don't want to make a queen. Not worried about laying worker, no signs of it, and as long as there is open brood from the other hive they are not likely to go laying worker. I think I will wait until all the brood is capped before putting another frame of brood in. Let them start to feel queenless for a while. By that time I may have a queen cell from one of the other hives to give them anyway.

The other hive is doing great. Just ten days after moving from a nuc to a ten-deep they have filled the deep. 4 frames of capped brood and one of open brood. All 10 frames are being worked on, wax making, loading with nectar. Good queen, that one. I saw a few open queen cells, still empty, but hoping they are thinking of swarming and make me a few good cells. They are making some drone brood again too. It's been an odd year, but good so far.


----------



## AR1

Cool, cloudy, rainy. May not be getting into the hives today after all. Still hoping for a break.

Bragging on my #2 daughter; She just got notification that a scientific paper she has been working on was accepted for publication. She is a little wheel, the one author is a big name in the field and another has a lot of published research, but I was happy.


----------



## daddyo1

Wow, she's an author!!!! Congrats! You must be over the moon!!!!


----------



## AR1

The skies cleared, and I got into the hives. All 3 are packed full of bees. One, the nuc, I was expecting to see queen cells, but no luck. They seem to be converting former brood space to honey. Time to put them into larger quarters.

The other two look healthy, lots of honey stored. Put a frame of young brood/eggs into the queenless hive.


----------



## AR1

Nuc at the house is now in a 10 deep. I decided to see just how calm these bees are. No smoke. They are very calm. I moved the five frames into the center of the new box and the bees didn't even seem to notice I was there. Only one or two buzzed me, and that was only after I dumped out all the loose bees that were left behind in the nuc. For some reason being knocked onto the ground got then stirred up. Hope they like their new home.


----------



## AR1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicory



Went by Home Depot today for some wood to finish up projects. Perused the garden section looking at plants for my new flower garden. I was shocked at the prices and went home buying nothing, figured a purchase of that size required a spousal consultation.

My wife said why not dig up various plants we have around and use those? She likes chicory so I drove out of town a few miles and dug up a dozen along the roadside. Just loosen the dirt and pull the base and they come right up, 6 inches to a foot of bare root. So now one bed is chicory. We like chicory coffee so may have to try making some at home.

Then, stopped by the farm and dug up some birdsfoot trefoil:





Birdsfoot Trefoil | Purdue University Turfgrass Science at Purdue University







turf.purdue.edu




This is one of my favorite flowers. We had a small pasture of it for calf grazing when I was a kid. Beautiful. Some survives around the margins of that field now, 50 years later. So the lower flower bed has a few of these planted. Hopefully it will spread and fill the bed. I'd be happy if it filled my entire lawn, but I suspect disapproval from certain family members...

The upper bed received beebalm, dug up from a too-shady bed behind the house. Hopefully it will like it's new location.

Any of these good for bees? No idea.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> .......
> 
> Any of these good for bees? No idea.


Chicory - not so much in practice (in theory - reported so).
Birdsfoot - @crofter says it is; not seeing bees on it here
Beesbalm - never see bees on it (plenty around here).


----------



## jtgoral

GregB said:


> Chicory - not so much in practice (in theory - reported so).
> Birdsfoot - @crofter says it is; not seeing bees on it here
> Beesbalm - never see bees on it (plenty around here).


I see bees on beebalms every day in my garden. They love it, so do hummingbirds.


----------



## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicory
> 
> 
> 
> Went by Home Depot today for some wood to finish up projects. Perused the garden section looking at plants for my new flower garden. I was shocked at the prices and went home buying nothing, figured a purchase of that size required a spousal consultation.
> 
> My wife said why not dig up various plants we have around and use those? She likes chicory so I drove out of town a few miles and dug up a dozen along the roadside. Just loosen the dirt and pull the base and they come right up, 6 inches to a foot of bare root. So now one bed is chicory. We like chicory coffee so may have to try making some at home.
> 
> Then, stopped by the farm and dug up some birdsfoot trefoil:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Birdsfoot Trefoil | Purdue University Turfgrass Science at Purdue University
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> turf.purdue.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of my favorite flowers. We had a small pasture of it for calf grazing when I was a kid. Beautiful. Some survives around the margins of that field now, 50 years later. So the lower flower bed has a few of these planted. Hopefully it will spread and fill the bed. I'd be happy if it filled my entire lawn, but I suspect disapproval from certain family members...
> 
> The upper bed received beebalm, dug up from a too-shady bed behind the house. Hopefully it will like it's new location.
> 
> Any of these good for bees? No idea.


the trefoil is excellent.
have some mixed in on a few hay feild at one location and the honey is great.

GG


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> I see bees on beebalms every day in my garden. They love it, so do hummingbirds.


Mostly bumblebees. Occasionally honeybees on beebalm.


----------



## AR1

Fly-back split into GregB's patented mini nuc:


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Fly-back split into GregB's patented mini nuc:


Nice! Looks good for homemade!


----------



## AR1

The process was, smoke the hive, leave, gather gear and put on PPE. Take main hive to it's new location. Smoke hive again and pop the top. Remove frames one by one looking for the queen, depositing frames in a nuc nearby as a quiet box. Go through ten frames. No queen. Grrrr. 

Go backwards through ten frames. No queen. 

Spot 'something' on the wall of the hive, buried in bees. Watch for a while and there she is. Use a small paintbrush to encourage her up the side and onto my hand. Drop her in the mini and quickly shake several frames of bees on top. Smoke to move the bees out of the way, put top on and return it to the original hive location, where many many bees are swirling around quite confused 'where is home?'.

Very calm bees, or maybe stupid. One or two buzzed me a bit, but were not persistent. A half hour later I was sitting 3 feet in front of the new hive watching, did not get investigated once.

Saw something very interesting. There were maybe 50 bees on the front porch, some fanning, others walking around, some appeared to be doing nothing. But several clusters of bees were very seriously grooming each other. One bee standing still, and one or more other bees really going at her, under wings, between body segments. Not fighting.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Nice! Looks good for homemade!


It is very solid, thick wood. I have overwintered bees in these.


----------



## AR1

Well, they stuck it out for 3 days then absconded. I put too many bees in the mini-hive. But the queen did lay a patch of eggs and the few hundred bees remaining are trying to take care of them. Live and learn. They don't need so many bees. Sadly, they did not abscond into any of the empty hives I got sitting around. Now to hope the donor hive requeens successfully!


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Well, they stuck it out for 3 days then absconded. I put too many bees in the mini-hive. But the queen did lay a patch of eggs and the few hundred bees remaining are trying to take care of them. Live and learn. They don't need so many bees. Sadly, they did not abscond into any of the empty hives I got sitting around. Now to hope the donor hive requeens successfully!


The new queen will start laying around end of August in Northern Illinois. Please let us know how strong is the hive with a new queen when going into winter around end of October. How is drone population at your place in first half of August? The latest OTS I did was around July 10th and it was still OK.


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> The new queen will start laying around end of August in Northern Illinois. Please let us know how strong is the hive with a new queen when going into winter around end of October. How is drone population at your place in first half of August? The latest OTS I did was around July 10th and it was still OK.


I am hoping for a new queen. Have made a few queens in August, but it's getting towards late here. I see few drones, but there is still some drone brood waiting to hatch.


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## AR1

Down to 2 hives, from 3. The hive that has been persistently queenless and refusing to make a new queen, has been newspaper combined with a strong hive.

That was a mess. More like a cutout than a normal combine. The hive was one I made 2 years ago at the end of the swarm season. I was completely out of boxes and frames, so I ended up putting 2 mediums together with whatever random frames I had left over. Some deeps, some mediums. Of course they cross combed everything between the bottom of the fames and the bottom board. Chunks of loose comb had fallen to the floor and gotten glued down. I had to scrape everything off and cut the hanging comb so it would fit into a normal deep box.


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## Litsinger

AR1:

I might have missed it, but what was the final disposition of the trap-out? Does the colony persist?


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Down to 2 hives, from 3. The hive that has been persistently queenless and refusing to make a new queen, has been newspaper combined with a strong hive.
> 
> ...


Nothing to worry about if you do IPM and prepare them for winter.
I am down from 13 to 5 by combining and selling but still ~25 gallons of honey  
2x long Langs, 2x BeeMAX poly and 1x 6FR/6FR (this resource hive gave me 12 deep frames of honey)


----------



## AR1

More non-bee-related bragging on my daughter:









Challenges toward achieving a successful hydrogen economy in the US: Potential end-use and infrastructure analysis to the year 2100


Fossil fuels continue to exacerbate climate change due to large carbon emissions resulting from their use across a number of sectors. An energy transi…




www.sciencedirect.com





I have a few quibbles with their analysis. Primarily, that US greens will never allow this to happen.


----------



## AR1

Fun morning today! I stopped by the farm to pick veggies and naturally peeked at the front of the hive. This hive was 2 hives until 3 days ago when I combined them. Appear fine but didn't mess with them at all. But, when looking I noticed a clump of bees at the base of a plant about 2 feet from the hive. Maybe the size of a softball . Appeared for all the world like a tiny swarm. Huh? I wondered if they weren't bees that had gotten lost when I combined the hives and clumped together for comfort, but I decided to put them in a box and see what happened.

I pulled the plant up by the roots and knocked them into the bottom of a nuc. About half the bees made it in and others were flying around. I replaced the 5 frames, most with good comb on them and closed the box. Then saw an interesting thing; bees at the entrance were signaling and other bees were marching into the box. I never saw a queen but they were sure acting like a tiny swarm with a queen. 

I watched for ten minutes and the flying bees all circled around and eventually entered the hive. Seems like a tiny new hive. So I put the nuc on the stand the old hive had been on before the combine. I figure a lot of the older foragers are probably still keying on that location, and may end up joining the new hive.

Then, when I got home I walked around the house, and dozens of bees were in and out of my wall of unused hives. An incoming swarm? Sure looks like it.

Will post pics once they finish downloading.


----------



## AR1

Tiny swarm on the ground:


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Tiny swarm on the ground


Maybe a usurpation (i.e. supercedure) swarm?


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Maybe a usurpation (i.e. supercedure) swarm?


I'll give them a few days peace and then take a look inside.


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## birddog

It is most likely a newly mated virgin from the nuc that refused to make qc. Check the parent colony for eggs after 4 days


----------



## AR1

Well, 'a few days peace' added up to one. I had the day off so headed up to the farm to pick veggies, beans and zucchini right now. Couldn't resist a peak in the hives. In the tiny swarm nuc, could not find a queen in the nuc, then, drat, there's another tiny swarm on the ground! 

I picked it up in my hand and let them spread out, sure enough, a yellow queen, fat, appears mated. So I dropped them all into the nuc, hoping there isn't a tiny virgin queen in there, sure didn't see one. 

Opened up the big hive and by golly the top box (the one that was a queenless hive all summer) is full of eggs. Take it off and they had eliminated most of the newspaper. I didn't see her but the queen must be spending her time up in that box. Middle box was a medium, and it's full of bees making honey. Very happy to see their progress. Bottom box was full of capped brood. No queen cells, but one that was torn down. So, did I just put that queen into the nuc? No idea. But I stole a frame of eggs and brood and bees, and also shook a frame of bees into the nuc. Moved the top box into the middle and put the medium on top.

The bees think it's May. Lots of capped drone brood, and a fair number of drones running around in the hive. Swarms, 2 that I know of. So I moved a bait hive nearby just in case. I think they kind of missed spring due to the weird weather we had. And the weather this month has been more like spring, lots of rain.

The hive at home lost their queen due to beekeeper error. Checked them out and found 6 queen cells. Otherwise the hive looks fine.


----------



## AR1

Oh, and, cut out a 12 square inch chunk of drone brood, capped. Not one mite.


----------



## AR1

Plan for tomorrow: Split my queenless colony that has at least 6 queen cells into two. Try to split the queen cells more or less evenly. This is a small hive, a single 10-frame deep but packed with bees, and lots of capped babies. 

I dithered about what kind of equipment to put them into, ten-frame deeps or 5 frame nucs. I finally decided to go with 10-frames, but to block off the extra space. So I cut 4, 2 inch thick boards to just fit and screwed in supports to make them hang like a regular frame. Each deep will get 5 frames of bees plus one or two empty frames, the two inserts, and the gaps filled with insulation. I have plenty of frames with comb, so they should go right to work filling them. Hopefully get two new queens out of this. If not they will get combined with other colonies.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Plan for tomorrow: Split my queenless colony that has at least 6 queen cells into two. Try to split the queen cells more or less evenly. This is a small hive, a single 10-frame deep but packed with bees, and lots of capped babies.
> 
> I dithered about what kind of equipment to put them into, ten-frame deeps or 5 frame nucs. I finally decided to go with 10-frames, but to block off the extra space. So I cut 4, 2 inch thick boards to just fit and screwed in supports to make them hang like a regular frame. Each deep will get 5 frames of bees plus one or two empty frames, the two inserts, and the gaps filled with insulation. I have plenty of frames with comb, so they should go right to work filling them. Hopefully get two new queens out of this. If not they will get combined with other colonies.


Have you seen this?


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> Have you seen this?


Since I have queen cells right now, and it is August, I am going with 5 frames each. If it were May or June I would try smaller colonies. Next spring, all going well, I will try GregB's mini nucs again.


----------



## jtgoral

Printable version of 2FR nuc. Minimum box size id 5FR 


Two Frame Nucleus


----------



## AR1

One tiny swarm mystery solved. Opened the nuc and found the queen. She is missing a wing, explaining why she never got more than 2 feet from the home hive. Now to wonder if she ever got properly mated or is shooting blanks. Time will tell. 

The parent hive appears to be doing well. Found the queen and a bunch of larvae and eggs. Still appears to be laying in drone comb. They appear to be filling the medium with nectar and drawing comb well.


----------



## AR1

Split a colony on July 20th. It's 18 days so those queen cells should be hatched in the last day or two, or hatching right about now.


----------



## AR1

About 4 inches of rain in the last 2 days. No sign of a summer dearth.


----------



## AR1

A problem with having too few hives is the constant temptation to open them up and mess with them. When that's spread over a dozen hives, no one hive gets it too badly. I have 4 'hives' only one of which has a guaranteed laying queen. The others are all somewhere in the process of making queens. A split on July 20th and I am manfully resisting the urge to open them up just to see what's happening. No. I promised myself to give them 30 days to make queens before I open them. I know two have queen cells because I put frames with capped queen cells in them, and the third hive had an open, occupied queen cell a week ago.

4 'hives' in quotes, because it isn't a hive if it doesn't have a laying queen. Time will tell. Lots of drone brood and drones walking around the frames, so not worried on that account.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> A problem with having too few hives is the constant temptation to open them up and mess with them. When that's spread over a dozen hives, no one hive gets it too badly. I have 4 'hives' only one of which has a guaranteed laying queen. The others are all somewhere in the process of making queens. A split on July 20th and I am manfully resisting the urge to open them up just to see what's happening. No. I promised myself to give them 30 days to make queens before I open them. I know two have queen cells because I put frames with capped queen cells in them, and the third hive had an open, occupied queen cell a week ago.
> 
> 4 'hives' in quotes, because it isn't a hive if it doesn't have a laying queen. Time will tell. Lots of drone brood and drones walking around the frames, so not worried on that account.


----------



## AR1

AR1 said:


> Tiny swarm on the ground:
> 
> View attachment 70534
> 
> 
> View attachment 70535


Checked out the nuc at the farm, the one that had the tiny swarms added. NO Queen that I could find after persistent looking. But, the hive is full of capped brood and also tiny larvae. No eggs. And a capped queen cell and two uncapped queen cells. My conjecture is that the tiny swarm queen wasn't very popular and was forced out after she laid enough eggs to make new queens. The capped queen cell and the capped brood is from the 2 frames taken from the parent hive.


----------



## AR1

Local allergy report says we are at a high pollen level. I hope that means lots of food for the bees:








Current Pollen Allergy Forecast for Winnebago, IL (61088)


Get Current Allergy Report for Winnebago, IL (61088). See important allergy and weather information to help you plan ahead.




www.pollen.com




The bees I watch seem to be going after plants I consider secondary. Sunflowers, for example. Some years the bees hardly touch them, but this year honey bees are on them.

Nuc at the farm has 2 capped queen cells. Some drones wandering around and capped drone brood.


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## AR1

Big rain last night means a good day to make applesauce. Lots of windfall apples. I don't add anything, no sugar, spices. Just boiled apples.

The bees are bringing in loads of pollen. Lots and lots. Means babies, I suppose! Today is 30 days since the split, so I am thinking of doing a queen check.


----------



## AR1

2 hives at the house both look good, lots and lots of nice-looking capped brood and uncapped. Did not see the queen in either, but she is there. Oddly, they are still laying in drone cells. I would expect only an occasional drone cell this time of year, but I have 3 hives with queens and all 3 are still making drones. The cool, rainy weather has them confused, I expect.

One of the home hives is quite small, 2 good seams of bees. I have that in a ten-deep with all but 4 frames blocked off. The other, which got a larger allocation of brood at the split, is packed with bees, so I added another frame to make 6 frames.

So 3 of 4 have queens, and the last one has capped queen cells and plenty of drones to play with when the time comes. Not much honey in either home hive, so expect to be feeding. 

No signs of mites, nice solid brood patterns, but did not open any drone cells this time to investigate. OA towels getting pretty chewed up.


----------



## RayMarler

AR1 said:


> No signs of mites, nice solid brood patterns, but did not open any drone cells this time to investigate. OA towels getting pretty chewed up.


I would like to hear more particulars about your OA towels, if you wouldn't mind to take the time for me? I'm sorry if I missed you telling about it earlier in the thread. I've just started following this thread the last few days, and I'm enjoying it very much. You are having fine adventures and I appreciate your fine writing of it to share.


----------



## AR1

RayMarler said:


> I would like to hear more particulars about your OA towels,


I read about them on Randy Oliver's site. I followed his recipe (in much, much smaller volumes) and made a few small batches using shop towels. The first year I tried them I had horrible troubles with too many small swarms which resulted in small, weak colonies that all got murdered by yellow jackets. So no results re mites. I was pretty bummed out. No difference between those that got towels and those that didn't.

I put them on my lone surviving colony last year and it got through winter pretty well. That colony now has 4 descendant colonies. I keep an eye on how destroyed the towels are and put a new one in when the last one is pretty much reduced to scraps.

I have yet to see a mite this year. I don't have a scientific method for mite searching, but I do regularly open large chunks of drone brood and look for them. I also look at brood patterns, look for phoretic mites, and in dead colonies look at the trash on the floors. Before using the towels I could generally find at least a few mites in drone brood, sometimes a lot of mites even if the colony _appeared_ healthy, and also occasionally spot a phoretic mite. I figure if you can see mites on bees, there are way too many mites and you already have a serious problem.

Incidentally, have not found any moths or small hive beetles this year either. No idea why not.


----------



## RayMarler

Thanks to you very much for your response. 
I've considered trying out the OATowel method, but I was wondering if the glycerin was a proven requirement for them to work, and I was just wondering how you did yours. It does sound like you've had very good results with it to me, and I'm betting it has also helped in your moth and small hive beetles infestations as well. So far I've been having great success with Apivar which is just so much easier than anything else. But one day I'm going to run out of my supply and am thinking I'll start tinkering with OATowels of some sort at that time.
Thanks again, I'm really enjoying your thread here.


----------



## AR1

RayMarler said:


> So far I've been having great success with Apivar which is just so much easier than anything else. But one day I'm going to run out of my supply and am thinking I'll start tinkering with OATowels of some sort at that time.
> Thanks again, I'm really enjoying your thread here.


Apivar is expensive. OA is cheap. Equally easy to apply. No worry about home consumption of honey with OA, and I don't sell anything so that's not a worry.


----------



## RayMarler

Yes, OA is cheap, that's why eventually I'll be moving to using it. I've got over 10lbs of it here already. But it is not as quick and easy as slipping in a couple of plastic strips of Apivar, so I'll use up what I have of it before changing varroa management practices. Thanks again, very much appreciated.


----------



## AR1

RayMarler said:


> Yes, OA is cheap, that's why eventually I'll be moving to using it. I've got over 10lbs of it here already. But it is not as quick and easy as slipping in a couple of plastic strips of Apivar, so I'll use up what I have of it before changing varroa management practices. Thanks again, very much appreciated.


Here is the chart I took the recipe from: 









Oxalic shop towel updates - Scientific Beekeeping


This page is for the sharing information on the extended-release method for oxalic acid application–by dissolving it in glycerin, and then applying to the hive on a cellulose matrix. You can view my article on the subject here: Beyond Taktic. A big thanks to EPA, ARS, and CDPR for working...




scientificbeekeeping.com


----------



## AR1

In the link above a paper is mentioned regarding mites developing resistance to OA. The link goes to the abstract only. Here is the link to the whole paper. The upshot is that 8 treatments per year for 8 years in one apiary led to no increase in resistance to OA compared to mites that had never been OA treated.



http://www.bulletinofinsectology.org/pdfarticles/vol70-2017-039-044maggi.pdf


----------



## AR1

Just got back from Chicago, downtown. Saw the Magnificent Mile, the tall buildings, pretty women. The most interesting thing I saw was honeybees on the flower plantings along the sidewalks. Lots of honeybees, actually. It was nice.


----------



## RayMarler

LOL yes, I myself have found that pretty women can be more dangerous than honey bees, but I do enjoy seeing both.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Just got back from Chicago, downtown. Saw the Magnificent Mile, the tall buildings, pretty women. The most interesting thing I saw was honeybees on the flower plantings along the sidewalks. Lots of honeybees, actually. It was nice.


I think City of Chicago keeps bees on the Civic Hall roof. This is quite close to Grand Park where they thrive.


----------



## AR1

Just got home from the farm. Found a nice fat queen in the 'mini-swarm' hive. No eggs yet but I am hopeful. 
The big hive also saw the queen. She is still making loads and loads of drones. The second deep box has several medium frames and they were all 90% capped drones. Did not dig into the bottom deep but hopefully there is more worker brood! Certainly no shortage of workers in the hive. Only one medium, and it is slowly being filled with honey. Loads of honey in the second deep. 

I stole one medium frame from the second deep, that was capped honey on the frame with a band of entirely drone brood hanging down. So, about 3 inches wide the entire length of the frame. Sat down with the decapper fork and looked at all those drones. Did not find one mite in the whole bunch! 

Garden is getting ridiculous. I stopped picking beans because I got tired of it, could have continued. Same with sweet corn. I am afraid a lot of corn will get too old, but even giving it away it is too much. Good rains since end of June.


----------



## AR1

Sweetcorn. Purple stalks, leaves, cobs and sometimes even the corn.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Garden is getting ridiculous. I stopped picking beans because I got tired of it, could have continued.


Pickle them  Different taste but still good and you can use them in winter.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Garden is getting ridiculous. I stopped picking beans because I got tired of it,


How funny - but this year is a bust on the bean front for me.
Hated voles destroyed most of my pole beans - beautiful strong vines got clipped at the ground level.
Too late to redo the beans now.
Hate them with passion, those voles!

To my consolation I still have frozen grean beans from the year 2021. 

And of course - this year is the year of the cucumber for me! 
Crazy.
Will need to pickle.


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> Pickle them  Different taste but still good and you can use them in winter.


Wife hates pickles.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> How funny - but this year is a bust on the bean front for me.
> Hated voles destroyed most of my pole beans - beautiful strong vines got clipped at the ground level.
> Too late to redo the beans now.
> Hate them with passion, those voles!


This year it was ground hogs and deer. Ground hogs destroyed all my carrots, deer ate many of the sunflowers. Beans on the other hand simply went crazy. Corn and sunflower plants smothered in bean vines. 

Zucchini growing vines up the trees, over the fence and into the ditch everywhere, but oddly making very few fruits. Watermelon and cantaloupe got planted late, lots of vines but few fruits, and none close to ripe yet. The bees seem happy, they love the vine crop flowers so I don't think it's a pollination problem. Not sure what's up except the late planting.


----------



## RayMarler

Bumble bees and Carpenter bees will do Zucchini but Honey bees will not. Same thing with Tomatoes. I don't know about solitary orchard bees as I've never seen them in my yards or gardens, I don't think they are in the area.


----------



## AR1

RayMarler said:


> Bumble bees and Carpenter bees will do Zucchini but Honey bees will not. Same thing with Tomatoes. I don't know about solitary orchard bees as I've never seen them in my yards or gardens, I don't think they are in the area.


Plenty of bees in those flowers, and some look like honey bees.


----------



## AR1

Yellow jacket traps are starting to catch more. Went from zero last week to a few dozen yesterday. All the ripe fruit is bringing them in. Windfall peaches and apples, and ripening grapes! Yum.

Have not seen them molesting the hives yet.


----------



## AR1

Nice visit to the farm yesterday. Besides picking the last of the sweetcorn, I opened the hives. The 'tiny-swarm' nuc is looking good, with some capped brood and a lot of eggs. They have added a little honey and a lot of pollen and are starting to fill the frames. Did not spot the queen. Hopeful for winter survival. I plan to move them to a more-protected location at some point before cold weather hits.

Opened the parent hive. The super is gaining a little honey and nectar and they are making comb on a few frames. The upper deep is full of bees and honey and pollen and nectar, and the drone comb is now empty of drones, except for one patch of drones I cut out. Only a little bit of capped worker comb and one tiny patch of eggs. Did not molest the lower box.

The cut out drone comb was investigated. These were nearly mature, some were even chewing their way out, so a good chance to look for mites. In a rectangle of 3 inches by 9 inches, double sided of drone brood, I found one mite! Undoubtedly missed a few, but very happy with that result. First mite I have seen this year. The OA towels are getting quite ragged and mostly gone, so time to make up a new batch. I have a few left of the old batch and should get those in the hives pronto.


----------



## AR1

Opened the only hive I hadn't checked recently, 6 frames that was a split in the summer. 5 of 6 frames full of bees and the 6th filling up on one side. So I added another frame with good comb. Hopefully they will fill it. Lots of bees and lots of brood and pollen, not much honey. Will be feeding these this winter. Do not want to open feed now as there are scads of wasps about. Yellow jacket traps are in use. Saw the queen for the first time, solid yellow and fat.

The season has changed and it is in effect fall. I am wearing wool socks! Spent the day doing fall activities. Picked 20 pounds of peaches and we cooked up jam. I spent several hours chainsawing a tree and splitting and stacking firewood. Should have done it in the spring but it got put off. I ate 2 varieties of grapes, peaches and raspberries. The last are sour but there are almost as many now as during the main season. Good rains and cool weather this summer. Ate the very last lonely leftover ear of sweetcorn.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Opened the only hive I hadn't checked recently, 6 frames that was a split in the summer. 5 of 6 frames full of bees and the 6th filling up on one side. So I added another frame with good comb. Hopefully they will fill it. Lots of bees and lots of brood and pollen, not much honey. Will be feeding these this winter. Do not want to open feed now as there are scads of wasps about. Yellow jacket traps are in use. Saw the queen for the first time, solid yellow and fat.
> 
> The season has changed and it is in effect fall. I am wearing wool socks! Spent the day doing fall activities. Picked 20 pounds of peaches and we cooked up jam. I spent several hours chainsawing a tree and splitting and stacking firewood. Should have done it in the spring but it got put off. I ate 2 varieties of grapes, peaches and raspberries. The last are sour but there are almost as many now as during the main season. Good rains and cool weather this summer. Ate the very last lonely leftover ear of sweetcorn.


5 frames of brood or bees? 5 frames of brood will make 15 frames of bees. Do you have so many in your hive?
Below frames 1,2,10 make only 1 frame of brood.


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> 5 frames of brood or bees? 5 frames of brood will make 15 frames of bees. Do you have so many in your hive?
> Below frames 1,2,10 make only 1 frame of brood.


5 1/2 frames covered in bees. 3 frames with brood, couldn't say how much brood on each frame.


----------



## AR1

4 inches of rain overnight, and 50s all day today. Seasons change.


----------



## AR1

An essay on the necessity of experts:

For the highly trained student of natural history, zoology or biology, distinguishing the common housefly, _*Musca domestica*_ from _*Canis familiaris*_, commonly known as 'the dog' is a relatively simple task, simply a matter of counting the legs or observing whether the eyes are multifaceted or not. However, even the well-educated layman may not find this task so simple. Below I will provide a few pointers for distinguishing these species that may help you in this sometimes-daunting task, made difficult by the many superficial similarities between the two separate species.

*The Similarities

Habitat*

Both the common housefly and the dog are often found inhabiting the dwellings of a closely related terrestrial species, _***** sapiens*_, broadly known as 'Human'. Indeed, they tend to prefer the same areas and locations in those dwellings, the food preparation areas, or as they are sometimes referred to, kitchens, and the waste disposal areas, or toilets, where both species obtain water. In addition, both will often move to the Human sleeping chambers in the later hours of evening in order to remain in close proximity to their commensal partners, the aforementioned Human. Humans are a diurnal species, normally resting during the dark hours, while both dog and fly may be active at any hour of the day and night.

Humans, while often tolerating to a lessor or greater degree these invasions of their dwellings, can sometimes react with energy to evict them, and in similar ways, swatting at either species with rolls of newsprint or even their open hands, often with loud accompanying vocalizations, particularly if awakened from slumber by a sudden, annoying intrusion of either species.

*Common Behaviors

Screen Door Behavior*

A further area of similarity is the response of both species to certain common features of Human homes, as for example, the screen door. These doors are cleverly designed to allow the passage of atmosphere and ambient light into the dwelling from the external environment, while excluding the entrance of larger, sometimes unwanted species, such as both the dog and the fly.

With either species the careful observer can note a puzzling behavior pattern. When the dog (or the fly) is on the interior of this screen, it will place it's muzzle firmly against the screen, indicating to the clever Human that it wants to go out. Once successfully outside, however, both species will almost immediately return to the screen and press their muzzles in the contraposition, indicating that they want to reenter the house. The exact significance of this behavior-pattern has yet to be fully elucidated, and one is left wondering if the human is not simply correct when he is heard shouting 'dumb dog!' or 'stupid fly!'.

*Food-related Behavior*

In the kitchen, both the dog and the fly appear to prefer Human food to that which, from their respective anatomies, would appear to be their natural diets. Both the fly and the dog can often be found hovering around the kitchen table during Human feeding periods, and with apparent gleefulness eating the Human food. When the Human is unwary, either species may actually mount the surfaces where the food is kept and devour it in situ. Flies, being somewhat smaller, rarely eat enough to negatively affect the caloric intake of the Human, while dog's intake is often significant. In spite of this, (and I apologize for deviating from the topic in order to mention an unrelated fact about a different species) the Human often reacts with surprising fury upon discovering a family grouping of flies enjoying its food, but may at times be more tolerant of the dog.

Both the fly and the dog are omnivores, enjoying meals of a wide variety meat or plant matter. Both often prefer the food in a putrificant state, making this another area where distinguishing the species is difficult for the layman.

*Interesting Habits*

Both the fly and the dog have an abiding interest in the fecal matter of other species, and both will often spend considerable time investigating it, circling it and sniffing it. At this point we introduce one method that the expert uses for distinguishing these two very similar species. Dogs will tend to roll in the fecal matter, apparently for the purpose of disguising their odor from their prey species. Flies are more fastidious, and merely walk on top of the feces, investigating it for opportune locations on which to deposit their eggs, with the intent of rearing their young in a sustenance-rich environment. Both species can later be observed cleansing their appendages with their mobile mouthparts.

Flies and dogs both, as noted previously, appear to enjoy close companionship with Humans, and can often be observed in close proximity, resting nearby, and following the Humans from room to room in their dwellings. If the Human remains motionless, as when sitting or lying, both species will attempt to rest atop the Human. In a similar vein, the Human may be observed apparently playing games with his cohabitants, enjoying tag or hide-and-go-seek with them. This sort of warm, congenial interspecies relationship is a good lesson in tolerance for us all.

As you can see, it is, for the layman, very difficult to distinguish these two species by behavior alone.

*Differentiating the Species

Eyes
*
While these species are nearly identical in appearance, there are a few characteristics that the well-trained layman can detect that will aid in correct identification.

First we will observe the eyes. Looking carefully at both pictures below, one notes the large-for-body-size visual organs, both with a sad, one might say _hangdog_ look. Both species normally have a single pair of dark brown or black ocular organs, though other colors may be noted in rare specimens. However, on closer examination, differences may be observed. Dog eyes consist of a single visual element, while the more highly-evolved fly has an elaborate, multifaceted construction, as noted above.

*Outer Covering*

Next, observe the outer covering. Both species are covered with a mat of fine, soft hair, inviting the observer's touch. Dogs are typically brown, but may be gray, white, black, yellow or a patchwork of those colors. The common fly is nearly always black or brown, and sometimes gray. Thus coloration cannot reliably be used to distinguish these species except in the case of dogs with white or yellow coats. (However, please note that there are various species of fly in a multitude of colors, and one may not be sure he is observing the common house fly, or one of these other species.) In the laboratory, the expert can detect significant differences and often make the correct determination of species by using hair alone, but the novice should make the attempt to observe for further differentiating marks.

*Wings*

Some people claim to be able to differentiate flies from dogs on the basis of the fact that flies have wings, and in fact are able to, literally, fly. Dogs do not have wings. Unfortunately, the fly's wings are nearly transparent, and in the brief periods that one is able to view them while they are quiescent, one may not have sufficient time to catch this subtle difference. If you are able to observe wings, however, this is a reliable indicator that one has encountered a fly. A lack of wings, even if reliably observed, is not sufficient to label the organism in question a dog. As with coat color, this can lead one into error; there are species of fly which are wingless, and an individual fly's wings may have been lost in an accident.

*Legs*

With the legs, we arrive at perhaps the simplest method of determining which species we are dealing with. Looking carefully at the pictures below, see if you can count the legs of each individual specimen. Note that dogs nearly always have four, and flies six, with occasional exceptions. Both the fly and the dog have claws on the distal points of their appendages. This can confuse the novice naturalist, but simply return to the leg count if one is unsure, not forgetting that as with wings, legs can be lost in accidents. If one is still confused, consult an expert!


----------



## A Novice

AR1 said:


> An essay on the necessity of experts:
> 
> For the highly trained student of natural history, zoology or biology, distinguishing the common housefly, _*Musca domestica*_ from _*Canis familiaris*_, commonly known as 'the dog' is a relatively simple task, simply a matter of counting the legs or observing whether the eyes are multifaceted or not. However, even the well-educated layman may not find this task so simple. Below I will provide a few pointers for distinguishing these species that may help you in this sometimes-daunting task, made difficult by the many superficial similarities between the two separate species.
> 
> *The Similarities
> 
> Habitat*
> 
> Both the common housefly and the dog are often found inhabiting the dwellings of a closely related terrestrial species, _***** sapiens*_, broadly known as 'Human'. Indeed, they tend to prefer the same areas and locations in those dwellings, the food preparation areas, or as they are sometimes referred to, kitchens, and the waste disposal areas, or toilets, where both species obtain water. In addition, both will often move to the Human sleeping chambers in the later hours of evening in order to remain in close proximity to their commensal partners, the aforementioned Human. Humans are a diurnal species, normally resting during the dark hours, while both dog and fly may be active at any hour of the day and night.
> 
> Humans, while often tolerating to a lessor or greater degree these invasions of their dwellings, can sometimes react with energy to evict them, and in similar ways, swatting at either species with rolls of newsprint or even their open hands, often with loud accompanying vocalizations, particularly if awakened from slumber by a sudden, annoying intrusion of either species.
> 
> *Common Behaviors
> 
> Screen Door Behavior*
> 
> A further area of similarity is the response of both species to certain common features of Human homes, as for example, the screen door. These doors are cleverly designed to allow the passage of atmosphere and ambient light into the dwelling from the external environment, while excluding the entrance of larger, sometimes unwanted species, such as both the dog and the fly.
> 
> With either species the careful observer can note a puzzling behavior pattern. When the dog (or the fly) is on the interior of this screen, it will place it's muzzle firmly against the screen, indicating to the clever Human that it wants to go out. Once successfully outside, however, both species will almost immediately return to the screen and press their muzzles in the contraposition, indicating that they want to reenter the house. The exact significance of this behavior-pattern has yet to be fully elucidated, and one is left wondering if the human is not simply correct when he is heard shouting 'dumb dog!' or 'stupid fly!'.
> 
> *Food-related Behavior*
> 
> In the kitchen, both the dog and the fly appear to prefer Human food to that which, from their respective anatomies, would appear to be their natural diets. Both the fly and the dog can often be found hovering around the kitchen table during Human feeding periods, and with apparent gleefulness eating the Human food. When the Human is unwary, either species may actually mount the surfaces where the food is kept and devour it in situ. Flies, being somewhat smaller, rarely eat enough to negatively affect the caloric intake of the Human, while dog's intake is often significant. In spite of this, (and I apologize for deviating from the topic in order to mention an unrelated fact about a different species) the Human often reacts with surprising fury upon discovering a family grouping of flies enjoying its food, but may at times be more tolerant of the dog.
> 
> Both the fly and the dog are omnivores, enjoying meals of a wide variety meat or plant matter. Both often prefer the food in a putrificant state, making this another area where distinguishing the species is difficult for the layman.
> 
> *Interesting Habits*
> 
> Both the fly and the dog have an abiding interest in the fecal matter of other species, and both will often spend considerable time investigating it, circling it and sniffing it. At this point we introduce one method that the expert uses for distinguishing these two very similar species. Dogs will tend to roll in the fecal matter, apparently for the purpose of disguising their odor from their prey species. Flies are more fastidious, and merely walk on top of the feces, investigating it for opportune locations on which to deposit their eggs, with the intent of rearing their young in a sustenance-rich environment. Both species can later be observed cleansing their appendages with their mobile mouthparts.
> 
> Flies and dogs both, as noted previously, appear to enjoy close companionship with Humans, and can often be observed in close proximity, resting nearby, and following the Humans from room to room in their dwellings. If the Human remains motionless, as when sitting or lying, both species will attempt to rest atop the Human. In a similar vein, the Human may be observed apparently playing games with his cohabitants, enjoying tag or hide-and-go-seek with them. This sort of warm, congenial interspecies relationship is a good lesson in tolerance for us all.
> 
> As you can see, it is, for the layman, very difficult to distinguish these two species by behavior alone.
> 
> *Differentiating the Species
> 
> Eyes*
> 
> While these species are nearly identical in appearance, there are a few characteristics that the well-trained layman can detect that will aid in correct identification.
> 
> First we will observe the eyes. Looking carefully at both pictures below, one notes the large-for-body-size visual organs, both with a sad, one might say _hangdog_ look. Both species normally have a single pair of dark brown or black ocular organs, though other colors may be noted in rare specimens. However, on closer examination, differences may be observed. Dog eyes consist of a single visual element, while the more highly-evolved fly has an elaborate, multifaceted construction, as noted above.
> 
> *Outer Covering*
> 
> Next, observe the outer covering. Both species are covered with a mat of fine, soft hair, inviting the observer's touch. Dogs are typically brown, but may be gray, white, black, yellow or a patchwork of those colors. The common fly is nearly always black or brown, and sometimes gray. Thus coloration cannot reliably be used to distinguish these species except in the case of dogs with white or yellow coats. (However, please note that there are various species of fly in a multitude of colors, and one may not be sure he is observing the common house fly, or one of these other species.) In the laboratory, the expert can detect significant differences and often make the correct determination of species by using hair alone, but the novice should make the attempt to observe for further differentiating marks.
> 
> *Wings*
> 
> Some people claim to be able to differentiate flies from dogs on the basis of the fact that flies have wings, and in fact are able to, literally, fly. Dogs do not have wings. Unfortunately, the fly's wings are nearly transparent, and in the brief periods that one is able to view them while they are quiescent, one may not have sufficient time to catch this subtle difference. If you are able to observe wings, however, this is a reliable indicator that one has encountered a fly. A lack of wings, even if reliably observed, is not sufficient to label the organism in question a dog. As with coat color, this can lead one into error; there are species of fly which are wingless, and an individual fly's wings may have been lost in an accident.
> 
> *Legs*
> 
> With the legs, we arrive at perhaps the simplest method of determining which species we are dealing with. Looking carefully at the pictures below, see if you can count the legs of each individual specimen. Note that dogs nearly always have four, and flies six, with occasional exceptions. Both the fly and the dog have claws on the distal points of their appendages. This can confuse the novice naturalist, but simply return to the leg count if one is unsure, not forgetting that as with wings, legs can be lost in accidents. If one is still confused, consult an expert!


Did you compose this yourself?


----------



## AR1

A Novice said:


> Did you compose this yourself?


Yes, some years ago I was writing a series of essays. This one never got finished.


----------



## AR1

Visited the farm today. The small hive now has 5 full frames covered in bees. Lots of capped brood, almost no stored honey. I swapped out two almost dry frames for two honey frames stolen from the big hive. 

The big hive looks good. The top super had a few frames of honey which I removed, and then took the super off. I doubt they would fill it this late in the season. The top deep looks good, with lots of bees and honey. No brood in the top box. Did not molest the lower deep.

There were a couple of partially-filled frames that I left out for the bees to scavenge. They can easily pack it into the space they have left, making tighter colonies.

The bees filled my car. Why? No honey, no sugar in there. I had to wear my veil driving home, with all the windows rolled down.

Picked the last few cantaloupes, some beans, peppers, a zucchini, a few tomatoes, and some corn. Not much left, but we still had 10 different fresh garden products in the evening meal tonight.


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## RayMarler

Sounds like a good day of inspection, looking good.
The bees filled your car? When? After the work was done and you packing up to leave? Was there a queen on you somewhere? Did a swarm fly into the car? Curiosity wants to know...


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## AR1

RayMarler said:


> Sounds like a good day of inspection, looking good.
> The bees filled your car? When? After the work was done and you packing up to leave? Was there a queen on you somewhere? Did a swarm fly into the car? Curiosity wants to know...


Not a swarm. Just a few hundred bees. I riled them up with the inspection and they were all over everything. Not the first time I have driven home wearing the veil, but that was the most bees at one time. 

I used to have a hot hive that would attack the car after an inspection, trying to get at me. Usually a few managed to get in so I wore the veil.


----------



## AR1

Fine day today, sunny and warm. Bees thick at the entrances.

One very nice change this year is that the yellow jackets are not attacking the hives. The last 2 years have been very bad and I lost several colonies. I have my traps out baited with watermelon and apple. Catch a few every day.


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## RayMarler

OK, yes @AR1 I've had bees in my jeep for the same reasons. One time I was transporting a couple hives in the back of my Jeep Cherokee and one sprung a leak. LOL that was a fun ride. Gratefully they flew to the windows and left me relatively alone.


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## RayMarler

Neighbors around me must be killing off any wasp's nests close by because I've not and any problems with them in the last few years. A nice relief for sure.


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## AR1

RayMarler said:


> Neighbors around me must be killing off any wasp's nests close by because I've not and any problems with them in the last few years. A nice relief for sure.


I suppose like other wild things, they go in waves, big years and off years. For example very very few Japanese beetles this year. Almost none. Some years I can hardly get a peach. One year they were so bad all the plums were just balls of beetles.


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## drummerboy

AR1 said:


> I suppose like other wild things, they go in waves, big years and off years. For example very very few Japanese beetles this year. Almost none. Some years I can hardly get a peach. One year they were so bad all the plums were just balls of beetles.


Japanese beetles have finally made their way to the North Woods...a first time occurrence for us. My wife got pretty good at collecting them in a jar, especially if mating, making daily rounds around our orchard and our 3 big gardens.

Send me your address and I'll send some back  ...just kidding...


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## AR1

Yes, it is sort of bee-related.


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## gww

I don't know why this has not been coming up on my alerts but looks like I missed a few comments with some of my favorite people involved. Maybe my comment here will get the alert thing started again.

ar1- I do have an off subject question for you. When you roll a cigar from a brown leaf off of your plant. How do you get it to stay together while you smoke it. I am a cigarette smoker myself and did try one little bit today and it was a bit mild compared to the harsh stuff I go for. Just a test for fun.
Cheers
gww


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## William Bagwell

gww said:


> I don't know why this has not been coming up on my alerts but looks like I missed a few comments with some of my favorite people involved. Maybe my comment here will get the alert thing started again.
> 
> ar1- I do have an off subject question for you. When you roll a cigar from a brown leaf off of your plant. How do you get it to stay together while you smoke it. I am a cigarette smoker myself and did try one little bit today and it was a bit mild compared to the harsh stuff I go for. Just a test for fun.
> Cheers
> gww


Email or the red dot in your account details avatar? A few months ago alerts were on steroids, getting emails for likes. Recently they seem to to be mostly turned off, missing more than I receive even for replies. Red dot alerts still working...

False memories, though I had an answer to your second question but mean old Sargent Carter said NO! 




Edit: a few useless details at the very end. Something about 'pointy end' and some off camera magic...


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## AR1

William Bagwell said:


> False memories, though I had an answer to your second question but mean old Sargent Carter said NO!


I remember seeing that Gomer Pile episode as a kid, maybe 1970 or thereabouts. Good times.


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## AR1

gww said:


> I don't know why this has not been coming up on my alerts but looks like I missed a few comments with some of my favorite people involved. Maybe my comment here will get the alert thing started again.
> 
> ar1- I do have an off subject question for you. When you roll a cigar from a brown leaf off of your plant. How do you get it to stay together while you smoke it. I am a cigarette smoker myself and did try one little bit today and it was a bit mild compared to the harsh stuff I go for. Just a test for fun.
> Cheers
> gww


I take a leaf that is humid enough to be flexible and not fall apart/crumble when rolled. Then just roll it as tightly as I can. Then lay it under a weight to keep it from unrolling until it has dried a bit. Once dry it will stay in a roll. I suppose you could use a rubber band or whatever string to hold the roll tight until dry.

Quality of my cigars is rather poor. They are loose compared to a store-bought, and the flavor is equal to any cheap cigar, certainly not as good as a good expensive cigar. Last time I bought a good cigar was maybe 2010 or so. I miss them, but it was a rare pleasure even then. Other than drying them, I don't process the leaves in any way. The flavor dos seem better in leaves that have sat in the shed several years.

These days I don't smoke them much except when I forget my smoker and want to open a hive, a few times a year at most. I mostly use the leaves for smoker fuel, enjoy the smell, and have read that they knock mites off bees without harming the bees.


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## AR1

Well. Looks like I am down one hive. Came home from work and as usual walked the yard for a few minutes to relax, pick whatever fruit is available and look at the hives. Immediately saw a yellow jacket leaving the entrance to a hive. Bad. Pulled the entrance reducer away and found nothing but chopped up bee parts. One worker flew out. And several wasps.

I had noticed an occasional yellow jacket challenging the hive last week so had reduced the entrance down to a tiny slot. Not good enough. Tomorrow is a day off and I will open the hive to investigate, but not hopeful. Maybe a frame of unrobbed honey is the best I can expect, and probably not even that. Sad, because this hive had appeared healthy a month ago. Small hive of only 6 frames, a mid-summer split.

As always in these cases I wonder about mites. Had not seen any mites in the drone brood on this colony. 

The other 3 hives appear active. One got a few pounds of sugar cake last week. A late hive on 5 frames. They were pretty dry of honey and nectar and I worried that a few days of cold rainy weather and they would starve. Still brooding.

Hard frost last week, so the garden is mostly gone except hardy greens. Picked the last few zucchini from the dead vines. Made a batch of crab apple sauce. Yum. About all that tree is good for, since they are hardly edible unless cooked, but a pretty tree. Harvested tobacco leaves, maybe 40 leaves. Plenty for a few cigars and next year's smoker fuel.


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## drummerboy

With a few warm days after last weeks 'killing' frost (we're frosty every morning now) the yellow jackets and bald faced hornets are trying hard to enter our hives. Fortunately, they are well defended with only 1 - 3 holes open in the mouse guards.

Yesterday, while prepping garlic beds for planting I observed a honeybee land on the back of a yellow jacket that was attempting entry. She immediately picked up the yellow jacket and flew off. How cool was that? Very cool.

This same colony is still removing/restricting drones while all 5 of our others have been relatively drone free for a couple weeks already. This colony also has a Russian queen, the bees are especially dark and increasingly aggressive as temps dip...got my very first sting of the year during this particular observation. I average half a dozen stings per year and thought I was gonna go the entire season without a one, only to get it in the cheek while simply watching these bees. Very cool!


----------



## crofter

Yellow jackets can operate at considerably lower temperatures than honeybees so they can gain the upper hand now with cooler weather upon us.
Re the dismenbered and chopped up bees; shrews will certainly do this. Shrews typically have spots they take the bees to and process them. they tend to leave quite concentrated piles of sucked out parts and discarded legs. Mice are more into eating honey and pollen.

I was looking at my mouse excluders yesterday and am a bit nervous that some openings are iffy small enough to exclude shrews. You almost have to go down to 1/4 inch square holes or 5/16 round holes to ensure they wont slip through. I think I will have to redo with some 1/4 mesh now that the drones are mostly gone. The workers have a hard time dragging those protesting heroes through 1/4 inch screen!


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## gww

Ar1
Sorry about the hive. I been processing acorns lately and made some acorn flour. Hard work and don't ask why cause I have never ate anything with it that I liked but it is a good acorn year and figure the deer will be fat. 

I picked all my tobacco leaves and have them in a pile trying to get them to yellow before I hang them. I got some seed earlier but not as much as I would like and it does not look like they will give more before the next hard frost come monday as it is all just lots of flowers but not finishing to seed pods. 

Rolled a couple of cigars but have not got a good draw from one yet and so need much more practice which is all I am doing anyway as the tobacco has no ageing yet. 

I have one hive that is not as active but I will not look and not know till spring on any of them. 

We did have a early light frost already because my sweet potatoes got bit and I had to dig but it did not take out tomatoes zucchini and peppers and so was not very hard.
I say again, thanks for sending me the tobacco seeds, it has been fun.
Cheers
gww


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## crofter

Was talking to a friend yesterday who is presently curing his smoking weed too. I dont think he bothers at all with the leaves though


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## gww

Frank
I have a brother in law who makes drying/processing cabinets that he is going to sell (around $17,000) and is going to rent them also. 

When I was young, I always smoked the leaves cause I was a cheapo and did not want waste. Back when people grew pot that got seeds, would try to smoke that too and had the holes in my shirts to prove it. Oh to be 14 again.
Cheers
gww


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Looks like I am down one hive.


All good here.
Typically, by now the worst cases should materialize (mites, queen failure, poisoning). 
None as of yet.


----------



## AR1

Had a scare, checked the two hives at the farm and no bees at all from the big hive. Rapped on the side and eventually a herd of bees came out to check. The small hive had bees out flying around. Time to get winter gear on them. Might snow tonight.


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## RayMarler

Got your heart beating a little eh?
Yes, sounds like winter preps are in order. Mine are buttoned up now, no peeking until March and I don't have a real winter.


----------



## AR1

RayMarler said:


> Got your heart beating a little eh?
> Yes, sounds like winter preps are in order. Mine are buttoned up now, no peeking until March and I don't have a real winter.


Snow depending on which weather report you believe, and the acts of God. I am guessing no for now. But it's been chilly, down to 30 the next few nights. Not worried about the bees keeping warm enough as long as no one is rapping on the hives stirring them up!

Got insulation boxes and sugar on top of two of them, but it needs adjusting, it was a quicky job just to make sure they didn't go hungry if the weather turned bad. Need to completely fill the box with insulation, not just a sheet or two, and take off the inner cover so they can access the whole block of sugar directly from the frames. That lets them adjust their position in the hive better. Then a slab of hard foam on to the telescoping cover. Maybe some side foam too.

Saw a few yellow jackets and honey bees in the garden. Not much for them right now but still some flowers there.


----------



## drummerboy

We had 2" snow covering everything yesterday AM, all melted by 4PM. It's 30F snowing right now. 

I'll likely begin adding insulation and 'dry' sugar above all of our colonies (6) in another week. Although; Forecast is calling for a steady warm up, 60F by next Saturday, so insulation may be delayed a bit...at least until nights remain below freezing and bees are no longer flying. 

I've said it before; These extreme temp fluctuations are adding great stress to our already stressed out bees and apparently, becoming the new normal. Lucky for us, bees are adaptable...our own interference proves that, no? So it goes.


----------



## ursa_minor

drummerboy said:


> I'll likely begin adding insulation and 'dry' sugar above all of our colonies (6) in another week. Although; Forecast is calling for a steady warm up, 60F by next Saturday, so insulation may be delayed a bit...at least until nights remain below freezing and bees are no longer flying.


I am sooooooo far north of you and we are having temps next week into 60F during the day and no night time freezing temps yet for two more weeks. It is cold today and I did my OAD, but I am holding off wrapping the hives until the weather dips. When I wrap I place my sugar bricks and I don't want the bees to settle up on top. Probably next weekend I will attach the rigid foam and insulate the top of the hive, but that will depend on what the long term forecast is for the next two weeks after that.


----------



## AR1

Got one done, a 1-deep in the back yard with 7 or 8 frames. First time it's been opened in quite a while so I wasn't sure what to expect. Very few bees flying recently. Absolutely packed with bees. So it's got a 4 lb slab of sugarblock on top. Took off the inner cover and placed the sugar directly on top the frames. Then an empty deep completely filled with fiberglass batting, then a telescoping top and a slab of 3/4" plywood over that.

One more to go.


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## Tigger19687

I made my 5^5 inside 1 regular deeps, thin ply between the frames and Rockwell. The other one I put along side it to share the wall between the 2 separate deep hives.
BTW they share guarding both entrances lol.

I have 2" for board over the inner covers on top. And a thin sheet of plywood on top to shed rain.
2" foam boards will go on when it gets cooler constantly.
It's been in the 60's daytime and 40's at night.

Hoping for a NON warped winter temperature this year


----------



## AR1

Oh my. The pics just made me laugh. Poor cops.









Massachusetts woman allegedly unleashes swarm of bees on deputies carrying out eviction order


A woman is facing multiple assault and battery charges for allegedly releasing a swarm of bees on a group of sheriff’s deputies, some of them allergic to bee stings, as they tried to serve an eviction notice, authorities said.




www.fox5ny.com


----------



## Tigger19687

AR1 said:


> Oh my. The pics just made me laugh. Poor cops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Massachusetts woman allegedly unleashes swarm of bees on deputies carrying out eviction order
> 
> 
> A woman is facing multiple assault and battery charges for allegedly releasing a swarm of bees on a group of sheriff’s deputies, some of them allergic to bee stings, as they tried to serve an eviction notice, authorities said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fox5ny.com


Watched the news last night and just shook my head... Stupid woman! She doesn't even know the evictee!!
She should be brought up on animal cruelty charges too ! She sentenced all those New to death on purpose


----------



## AR1

Got my last hive pretty much winterized. It's a double deep. Popped the lid in 70+ degree weather, beautiful day but windy. Bees didn't want to fly in that wind so I didn't bother with smoke. Top box is loaded with bees, bottom entrance also busy. Put a couple pounds of sugar on top and an OA towel, the last one. It will get a big block of sugar next time I open it, that was all I had handy. 

Medium box on top stuffed with insulation. When I get around to it, and when it is decently cold, I'll put some hard foam slabs on the outside. Pretty windy location.


----------



## AR1

Visited the bees at the farm today. One is a 5-framedeep. On Oct 15th I put a large slab of hard sugar on top. Peeked in today and it is almost all gone! I had a 4 lb bag of sugar with me and poured about 3 lbs of that on top of some paper to tide them over until I can get a big slab made. I don't like using granulated sugar this season because the bees end up dragging a lot of it out and dumping it, which attracts yellow jackets. There are a lot of them around right now.

The other hive still had some sugar block left, but I poured the rest of the granulated sugar on top. They will need a slab of hard sugar too before winter.

I don't see yellow jackets getting inside any of the hives yet, but they sure are thick now. My one hive at home has 3 traps next to it with apple for bait. Bees are not that attracted to apple, but the YJs love it. Catch at least a dozen every day, and I squash about that many too.


----------



## Tigger19687

I spilled honey on my deck the other day.
Lots of YJ, more honeybees then YJ.....turned into a LOT of bright yellow smash streaks on my deck while the golden yellow bees lapped it all up


----------



## AR1

Still getting pollen into the hives too. Light yellow and dark orange. 
Pollen.com only lists Ragweed right now.


----------



## AR1

The girls were snuggled all warm in their beds,
while visions of sugarcake danced in their heads.

Got the bees about where I want them now. Found some slabs of 1" hard foam and tied it around the hives today. That's more than I do most years. Plus one of the hives has 2" boards on the inner walls. Interested to see how that works out. All 3 have a deep or medium box on top filled with insulation, that's all I have done the last few years.

Grabbed the 5-frame nuc at the farm and brought it home. It's on the south side of the house a few inches from the wall, completely out of the wind. With the foam and top insulation, the only worry is food.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> *Pollen.com* only lists Ragweed right now.


I would not pay much attention to them.
They have no idea of my city park nearby - dandelions until winter.


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> I would not pay much attention to them.
> They have no idea of my city park nearby - dandelions until winter.


They concentrate on plants and pollen levels likely to annoy allergy sufferers. I don't think they bother with plants that don't cause allergies, or at low levels.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> They concentrate on plants and pollen levels likely to annoy allergy sufferers. I don't think they bother with plants that don't cause allergies, or at low levels.


Makes sense.
Makes them less useful to us.


----------



## AR1

Stopped by the farm and poured in another 4 pounds of sugar, mountain camp style. They were really going after the sugar I had in there. Have to buy more sugar.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Stopped by the farm and poured in another 4 pounds of sugar, mountain camp style. They were really going after the sugar I had in there. Have to buy more sugar.


Are they so empty?
Kinda early.
Meatbees?


----------



## AR1

They shouldn't be, they had a whole 10-deep box to play with. But yes, meat bees. I suspect the bottom deep is dry.


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## Tigger19687

☹. I was going to wait till mid Dec before putting a sugar brick on... Maybe I should do it early.

I just wanna say that I laugh when I hear Meat Bees. I picture Fat Bees like meat chickens in a field. 🤣


----------



## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> They shouldn't be, they had a whole 10-deep box to play with. But yes, meat bees. I suspect the bottom deep is dry.


I had a similar problem last fall and I think it was because I put the sugar on before the bees had clustered. This fall I waited until the temps. dropped and two hives have settled on the bottom but one is up on the sugar. Still, this one had 3 lbs of sugar and probably has 2.9 lbs. left. So although they are on the sugar they are not consuming much. 

I think leaving the sugar off, until temps. are below freezing consistently is important in my area, not sure what your temps are at though so my theory could be mistaken.


----------



## AR1

ursa_minor said:


> I think leaving the sugar off, until temps. are below freezing consistently is important in my area, not sure what your temps are at though so my theory could be mistaken.


You are very likely right. Up until last week temps were unusually warm around here, some days hit 70F. This week is cooler, with snow, and may get down to 12F (-11C) if the weather report holds up.


----------



## AR1

Not a bee in sight, snow on the ground.
Picked the last broccoli today, doubt it will survive a deep freeze. Also, chives, celery, parsley, which are under plastic and may make it a few more weeks, and sage. Amazingly, the hollyhocks are still blooming!


----------



## AR1

Effect of honey on cardiometabolic risk factors: a systematic review and meta-analysis


AbstractContext. Excess calories from free sugars are implicated in the epidemics of obesity and type 2 diabetes. Honey is a free sugar but is generally regarde




academic.oup.com





Honey improves various health biomarkers.


----------



## drummerboy

AR1 said:


> Not a bee in sight, snow on the ground.
> Picked the last broccoli today, doubt it will survive a deep freeze. Also, chives, celery, parsley, which are under plastic and may make it a few more weeks, and sage. Amazingly, the hollyhocks are still blooming!



All that's remaining in our gardens, still waiting to be harvested, is carrots, beets, parsnips and maybe a few rutabagas....all of which covered with about 2' of grass hay, which should keep them frost free for another month or so....tick, tock....Fresh roots in December...oh yeah!

Saw a handful of bees in front of some hives, but with temps dipping they are quietly staying in cluster. At least until next weeks warm up back to the 30'sF which 'usually' brings bees out to relieve themselves....or so we thought (?). After eliminating top entrances last season, dead bees scattered in front of hives and evidence of 'bee poo' in the snow was minimized considerably. We are confirmed believers that top entrances made our bees work harder than was necessary.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Effect of honey on cardiometabolic risk factors: a systematic review and meta-analysis
> 
> 
> AbstractContext. Excess calories from free sugars are implicated in the epidemics of obesity and type 2 diabetes. Honey is a free sugar but is generally regarde
> 
> 
> 
> 
> academic.oup.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honey improves various health biomarkers.


Yesterday I started a new batch of a homebrew I called Cashmere Honey Pils. It has 6 lb of Pilsner malt and 2 lb of my honey.

Who will benefit from healthy aspects of this honey? Me drinking the beer or yeast fermenting it?


----------



## Tigger19687

drummerboy said:


> All that's remaining in our gardens, still waiting to be harvested, is carrots, beets, parsnips and maybe a few rutabagas....all of which covered with about 2' of grass hay, which should keep them frost free for another month or so....tick, tock....Fresh roots in December...oh yeah!
> 
> Saw a handful of bees in front of some hives, but with temps dipping they are quietly staying in cluster. At least until next weeks warm up back to the 30'sF which 'usually' brings bees out to relieve themselves....or so we thought (?). After eliminating top entrances last season, dead bees scattered in front of hives and evidence of 'bee poo' in the snow was minimized considerably. We are confirmed believers that top entrances made our bees work harder than was necessary.


When you say top entrance, so you mean Both a top AND bottom? Or just a top entrance back then.


----------



## Litsinger

jtgoral said:


> Who will benefit from healthy aspects of this honey? Me drinking the beer or yeast fermenting it?


Sounds like a win-win to me!


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Honey improves various health biomarkers.


Looks like one of @psm1212's customers was on to something...



psm1212 said:


> I used to sell quarts of honey to this lady in town. She would always buy 2 quarts at a time and she would buy it every 3 or 4 weeks. I finally said something to the effect of “Boy, you really like honey.” To which she told me that it was for her husband. He had diabetes and couldn’t have any sugar, so she just put honey in everything he ate.


----------



## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Looks like one of @psm1212's customers was on to something...


If you use Google Scholar or some other science search engine you can find hundreds of similar papers going back decades. I remain somewhat skeptical, as in 'too good to be true'. Honey probably is 'good for you'. But so is beer, at least according to lots of studies. Dietary science is one of the more difficult sciences to get reliable, repeatable results.

Particularly diabetics need to remember to add in the carb count of the honey. I can't tell you how often I treat diabetics who tell me they only occasionally check their blood sugar, and then are dismayed to end up in the hospital.


----------



## drummerboy

Tigger19687 said:


> When you say top entrance, so you mean Both a top AND bottom? Or just a top entrance back then.



Yes, for many years it was our custom to have 'both' an entrance at the bottom and a 'notched' inner cover above for ventilation, with an insulated box on top. That was the extent of our winter prep.

During winter; We could easily tell which colonies were alive by the 'dead' bees and bee poo scattered in front of the hives. Seeing them was a cause for celebration....No more.

Eliminating the top entrances reduced the amount of dead bees in the snow 'last season' - in fact, a few (Russian queens) never did show the 'usual' signs, forcing us to rely on the stethoscope to ensure LIFE was still going on inside. Our 2021-22 winter survivors (4 of 6) came out of winter bigger/healthier than we've been accustomed to, convincing us that removing the top entrance was the way to go....for us and our bees.


----------



## Tigger19687

@drummerboy Thank you for the info ! I too am not using an upper vent/entrance this year and crossing my fingers it doesn't get arctic out there this year


----------



## GregB

drummerboy said:


> Eliminating the top entrances reduced the amount of dead bees in the snow 'last season' - in fact, a few (Russian queens) never did show the 'usual' signs,


You see, this is non-conclusive.

Did you eliminate the top entrance OR did you eliminate the draft (caused by double-entrance setup)?

Was the dead bee issue about the entrances OR was it about the genetics?

Without some back-yard grade experiments, you don't actually know.

As I observed and wrote about - some genetics are ready to fly out during most any sunny day (poor localization); others - not so much.
In similar setup and standing side-by-side.

Finally, everyone is sticking to this cold-way frame orientation (without even thinking about it) is another issue.
Warm-way frame orientation is blocking not only excessive air movements, but also excessive light from the entrances (if the frame is facing the hole). 

Some recent observation from the 20-year TF guy videos - regarding his entrances:
GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees. | Page 100 | Beesource Beekeeping Forums


----------



## drummerboy

Imo; In the long run, we're all just guessing, no? 

The only experts are the bees. I'm gonna keep trying to follow their lead.


----------



## jtgoral

drummerboy said:


> Imo; In the long run, we're all just guessing, no?
> 
> The only experts are the bees. I'm gonna keep trying to follow their lead.


You do nothing about swarming?


----------



## AR1

GregB said:


> Finally, everyone is sticking to this cold-way frame orientation (without even thinking about it) is another issue.
> Warm-way frame orientation is blocking not only excessive air movements, but also excessive light from the entrances (if the frame is facing the hole).


I block the sun and wind from the front entrance. Keeps snowdrifts off too.


----------



## drummerboy

jtgoral said:


> You do nothing about swarming?



 Not sure where that question comes from, but of course we 'attempt' to control or limit swarming. All of our winter survivors are split 'early' (late April, early May)....and depending on their intended future, are split again by end of June or early July. This not only inhibits swarming, but also provides a 30 plus day brood break, keeping varroa at a manageable rate.

This simple process alone has 'almost' eliminated swarming from our bees...and kept varroa rates down..


----------



## jtgoral

drummerboy said:


> Not sure where that question comes from, but of course we 'attempt' to control or limit swarming. All of our winter survivors are split 'early' (late April, early May)....and depending on their intended future, are split again by end of June or early July. This not only inhibits swarming, but also provides a 30 plus day brood break, keeping varroa at a manageable rate.
> 
> This simple process alone has 'almost' eliminated swarming from our bees...and kept varroa rates down..


So you do not follow the bees you want them to follow you as far as the swarming is concerned


----------



## drummerboy

"Bee-havers 'take' direction from bees. Beekeepers 'give' direction to bees" - Mel Disselkoen


----------



## Litsinger

drummerboy said:


> "Bee-havers 'take' direction from bees. Beekeepers 'give' direction to bees"


And wise beekeepers work in collaboration with their bees...


----------



## GregB

jtgoral said:


> So you do not follow the bees you want them to follow you as far as the swarming is concerned


True that.


----------



## AR1

drummerboy said:


> All of our winter survivors are split 'early' (late April, early May)....and depending on their intended future, are split again by end of June or early July.


That's earlier than I split, and you are a couple hundred miles due north of me. Do you feed patty or otherwise try to stimulate early brooding? 

I don't see many drones that early so hesitate to split. The bees will naturally swarm in late May or in June if I leave them alone.


----------



## drummerboy

We are at least 350 miles north of Northern IL. (Zone 3). Wife's sister lives in Beloit.

No, we do not feed pollen patties. Bees 'know' when to start brooding without our assistance.

Splits; Late April to early May encompasses roughly 3 weeks (not written in stone) and is dependent on natural pollen availability and weather. We can have a Maple bloom as early as mid-April and as late as mid-May.

If 'any' drones are seen (whether hatched out or not) and the weather is cooperative....it's time to split imho. 

We 'try' to acknowledge our bees natural tendencies and use the same to 'direct' or entice them in the direction they'd desire if left to themselves, keeping their stress level to a minimum. 

The 30 day brood break from donor colonies inhibits varroa, while also giving those bees 'honey making' duties before queens have begun laying. Our honey!!


----------



## crofter

We have to remember that pending a split that induces queen cell production, that it will be at least 2 full weeks before the resulting virgin goes out to mate. Theoretically the drones who would need to be ready at mating time, could still be at the purple eyed pupa stage when the split is made.

If the split is made with a virgin queen or a ripe cell then the mating drones would need to be approximately 2 weeks old (since emerging) at the time of the split.

The other variable that effects split timing also needs to meet the plus 65F. temperature, low wind and sunny weather criteria for optimum mating.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> drummerboy said:
> All of our winter survivors are split 'early' (late April, early May).................
> 
> That's earlier than I split, and you are a couple hundred miles due north of me............


That is earlier than I split too.
I only split when I sense swarming pressure and when I have my own drone - which is in June for me.

Don't like the early bees - these mostly originate from the southern imports around here.
Lots of early drones around here are imported as well - not my first choice.


----------



## jtgoral

GregB said:


> That is earlier than I split too.
> I only split when I sense swarming pressure and when I have my own drone - which is in June for me.
> 
> Don't like the early bees - these mostly originate from the southern imports around here.
> Lots of early drones around here are imported as well - not my first choice.


I had drones on Apr 10th this year. Most packages come late April and in May here near Chicago. Probably all other drones in the area around April 10th had to be from someones overwintered bees, too.


----------



## GregB

jtgoral said:


> *I had drones on Apr 10th this year.* Most packages come late April and in May here near Chicago. *Probably all other drones in the area around April 10th had to be from someones overwintered bees, too.*


Too early to my taste and my location.
I try to avoid bees that do that (I don't want them and will discontinue if I get them).

But also, the early-type bees did not do well with my *reduced *treatment - see last year winter report.
Will see about this season.

Lots (most?) of overwintered bees are nothing but last year packages with southern traits.


----------



## RayMarler

Humans try to put a "Time" to split on the hives based on the calendar. Try just letting the bees tell you when to split instead. Put in a foundationless frame and when they have capped drone brood, then it's time to split. Then you will have breeding aged drones just as the queen goes out on mating flights. Doing it this way will cover location and weather issues in determining timing of splits.


----------



## GregB

RayMarler said:


> *Put in a foundationless frame *and when they have capped drone brood, then it's time to split.


Since I am foundation-less - not a problem with this. 
I know when my *desired drone-breeder* hives tell me to start the queen raising.
For sure not April. Never.
Simple enough.

I don't really think of splitting anymore.
It is more about new queen raising/wintered queen preserving.
Splitting is just a by-product.

In fact - I looked - in 2021 my main drone-hive (VSH queen) started about *mid-May* - now this is reasonable.
GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees. | Page 80 | Beesource Beekeeping Forums

And well localized swarming pressure/queen production starts at the *end of May *(thanks to my own journalling - I know this for a fact):
GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees. | Page 81 | Beesource Beekeeping Forums


----------



## AR1

drummerboy said:


> We are at least 350 miles north of Northern IL. (Zone 3). Wife's sister lives in Beloit.
> 
> If 'any' drones are seen (whether hatched out or not) and the weather is cooperative....it's time to split imho.
> 
> The 30 day brood break from donor colonies inhibits varroa, while also giving those bees 'honey making' duties before queens have begun laying. Our honey!!


Your sister-in-law is practically a neighbor. We used to drive to Beloit on weekends in high school.

_*If 'any' drones are seen (whether hatched out or not) and the weather is cooperative....it's time to split imho.*_

This makes plenty of sense to me.

_*The 30 day brood break from donor colonies inhibits varroa, while also giving those bees 'honey making' duties before queens have begun laying. Our honey!!*_

I now question the validity of brood breaks in controlling mites. Mites are well-adapted to the life cycles of their host and tolerate breaks in breeding. In fact, I suspect brood breaks just concentrate mites into the first eggs laid by the new queen, resulting in a hatch of badly infested bees just when they can least stand it. It may work in some conditions, people who remove the first frame of capped brood, for example, or drone culling.

Some bees, maybe the famous mite-biters and so on, may be able to take advantage of the break, others not. The first two swarms I ever caught died of severe mite infestation, one the same fall, and the other over the next winter. The one that died that fall was even split again in the summer and that didn't save it, both halves of the split died severely infested with mites. I often don't know what killed a particular hive, but in these cases the cause of death was crystal clear.


----------



## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> I now question the validity of brood breaks in controlling mites.


I don't think brood breaks by themselves control mites, but a break surely keeps a population down even if the mites can wait until they can reproduce again. The brood break needs to be in conjunction with a mite treatment.


----------



## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> ...
> I now question the validity of brood breaks in controlling mites. Mites are well-adapted to the life cycles of their host and tolerate breaks in breeding. In fact, I suspect brood breaks just concentrate mites into the first eggs laid by the new queen, resulting in a hatch of badly infested bees just when they can least stand it. It may work in some conditions, people who remove the first frame of capped brood, for example, or drone culling.


Then imagine that you can have a child when you are 120 years old.... Good luck


----------



## AR1

jtgoral said:


> Then imagine that you can have a child when you are 120 years old.... Good luck


And yet, mites survive quite well my 3 month winter brood break, and the considerably longer Canadian winters. Mite numbers fall, and so do bee numbers. Southern bees, with their minimal to no brood breaks give an indication.


----------



## RayMarler

.


----------



## RayMarler

What I think about brood breaks to control varroa...

Something I've posted in the past in a different forum thread...
Bee death and crawlers, how many to expect

I've heard people say that brood breaks helps to control varroa. I've heard people doing brood breaks for varroa control, but they still lose the hives. I can't say what did or did not work for them, all I can do is tell you how brood breaks have worked for me, and the conclusions I have come to from the experiences.

When I do brood breaks as a varroa control method, here's what happens for me in my location with the local bees I can get here... The hives still die. If anything, the brood breaks makes the varroa problem even worse, at least in some instances. So I started studying varroa, their life cycles and brooding cycles. I've come to a few conclusions from my experiences and reading.

I make the brood break, I've done it many different ways, at least four different ways, and I've always had the same result. Hives die. So what happens inside the hive when they get a brood break. There are adult varroa on the adult bees. There are varroa breeding and feeding on capped bee pupa. There are varroa getting ready to enter bee larva as they are being capped. Now, make a brood break. Over time as the bee brood cycle progresses, for each bee pupa that is infested, you get 2 more mites come out, or close to it. They add to the adult mite population on the adult bees. More larva get close to capped pupa stage each day, this goes on for 12 days. More and more adult varroa each day from pupa emerging, more and more varroa entering the remaining upcoming pupa. After three weeks, all bee brood is emerged, no more bee brood. Now the hive has very high numbers of adult varroa. So, now what happens... The new queen bee starts laying. There are so many adult varroa that the first rounds of brood get hit really hard with varroa. They get hit so hard that the virus's associated with varroa get to critical stages, Now I've got more deformed wings than I had before the brood break. As time goes on, more bee brooding, more mites, more deformed wings, brood is real spotty, and over time I now start getting crawler bees, paralysis virus, black hairless bees with undersized abdomens, etc. You get the picture. In my opinion from my experiences here with my bees in my location, brood breaks to not help at all with varroa, it might even make the problem worse. If others have success with it fine, but it does NOT work for me, and I cringe every I hear someone say they use brood breaks for varroa control. Managing (killing) drone brood on a regular basis for varroa control does help much much better for varroa control than brood breaks do... once again, for me in my location with my bees.


----------



## jtgoral

RayMarler said:


> What I think about brood breaks to control varroa...
> 
> Something I've posted in the past in a different forum thread...
> Bee death and crawlers, how many to expect
> 
> I've heard people say that brood breaks helps to control varroa. I've heard people doing brood breaks for varroa control, but they still lose the hives. I can't say what did or did not work for them, all I can do is tell you how brood breaks have worked for me, and the conclusions I have come to from the experiences.
> 
> When I do brood breaks as a varroa control method, here's what happens for me in my location with the local bees I can get here... The hives still die. If anything, the brood breaks makes the varroa problem even worse, at least in some instances. So I started studying varroa, their life cycles and brooding cycles. I've come to a few conclusions from my experiences and reading.
> 
> I make the brood break, I've done it many different ways, at least four different ways, and I've always had the same result. Hives die. So what happens inside the hive when they get a brood break. There are adult varroa on the adult bees. There are varroa breeding and feeding on capped bee pupa. There are varroa getting ready to enter bee larva as they are being capped. Now, make a brood break. Over time as the bee brood cycle progresses, for each bee pupa that is infested, you get 2 more mites come out, or close to it. They add to the adult mite population on the adult bees. More larva get close to capped pupa stage each day, this goes on for 12 days. More and more adult varroa each day from pupa emerging, more and more varroa entering the remaining upcoming pupa. After three weeks, all bee brood is emerged, no more bee brood. Now the hive has very high numbers of adult varroa. So, now what happens... The new queen bee starts laying. There are so many adult varroa that the first rounds of brood get hit really hard with varroa. They get hit so hard that the virus's associated with varroa get to critical stages, Now I've got more deformed wings than I had before the brood break. As time goes on, more bee brooding, more mites, more deformed wings, brood is real spotty, and over time I now start getting crawler bees, paralysis virus, black hairless bees with undersized abdomens, etc. You get the picture. In my opinion from my experiences here with my bees in my location, brood breaks to not help at all with varroa, it might even make the problem worse. If others have success with it fine, but it does NOT work for me, and I cringe every I hear someone say they use brood breaks for varroa control. Managing (killing) drone brood on a regular basis for varroa control does help much much better for varroa control than brood breaks do... once again, for me in my location with my bees.


very likely the brood break is not long enough when you think that:

The daughter Varroa mites will lay eggs in other brood cells after 2 weeks. Adult *female Varroa mites usually live for 2 months, but can overwinter* between the sclerites (the hardened plates of the exoskeleton) of adult honey bees.

....


----------



## drummerboy

There's lots about both honeybees and varroa mites that we do not fully understand. There are still considerable mysteries waiting to be solved. Even Seeley and Oliver can admit that, so we are all in good company. Mystery surrounding genetics and localized breeding are just 2, exampled by the fact that Drones by definition, may not actually be male or female. So what are they? I don't know, but they are certainly a necessary component of a honeybee colony. Can a honeybee colony even survive without drones? 

We NEVER purposely kill drones. We only kill the odd queen now and then.

Perhaps my explanation/description was incorrect above (?) Our early first 'splits' of over-wintered colonies are actually 'artificial' swarms by definition, which leaves the donor colony 'queenless' (and increasingly broodless) for at least 30 days, becoming a colony focused solely on collecting/storing honey, while waiting for new queens to begin laying. We separate the queens with a couple brood frames, a few shakes of nurses and keep them small, used as insurance....or....we may kill the queen, depending on our intentions. The 'queenless donor' colony will make us as many queen cells as we can handle on our small operation, with the goal of never having to 'buy' bees again.

With little to no brood, mites are kept to a manageable level. With precise 'timing' and an understanding of both bee and mite math, one can anticipate and take action as is needed. Until we got 'infested' with mite bombs a few years ago, this course of action was still in the planning stage, but by keeping good records and being thorough with our manipulations, it is 'working' for us. 

I guess we'll see what next Spring brings us.

For those who celebrate; "Happy Turkey Day" my friends.....(our 19lb turkey was raised from an egg locally by friends)


----------



## crofter

Special local conditions can render incomplete conclusions. For instance a location may have a predictable summer dearth during which some bee types do not shut down brooding and eat up most honey reserves. In that case forcing brood break will have benefits in that respect. Multiple foundress mites that then cohabit cells at end of brood break, gives opportunity for outbreeding which is favorable to mites and viruses. Add this last tid bit to RM's post # 857 above.

Locations where season is from March to November have entirely different logistics than areas like mine that are more like June to August. A total brood break has far different economic implications. @grozzie2 is author of a very comprehensive illustration of the costs of a brood break. Get that inside your head and it may give second thoughts about brood breaks net benefit.


----------



## drummerboy

Here's my take; I can only agree with you Frank, location is everything. We're more like May to September, but as you must know, that window can move in either direction, depending on weather, nectar flows and ...location...

Brood breaks example what bees would naturally do if left to make their own decisions. Bees want to 'make more bees' more than anything else, and they can't/won't make more bees without swarming and creating a brood break, which allows workers to focus on 'collecting' resources instead of caring for brood. So, as a beekeeper wanting to satisfy the bees instinct to reproduce, we attempt to direct the action ourselves with early splits/artificial swarms.

Creating 'artificial swarms' and splitting colonies are a beekeepers way of 'directing' the bees own natural instincts, while 'keeping' them around instead of allowing them to swarm, which we can assume, would be their preferred way to accomplish reproduction . This is why we begin prepping 'early' - as soon as drones are present (and weather is favorable), maples are blooming and before bees begin prepping for swarming themselves. This simple preventative maneuver has kept us swarm free for several years....and has provided us with some very nice queens.


----------



## Snarge

RayMarler said:


> Humans try to put a "Time" to split on the hives based on the calendar. Try just letting the bees tell you when to split instead. Put in a foundationless frame and when they have capped drone brood, then it's time to split. Then you will have breeding aged drones just as the queen goes out on mating flights. Doing it this way will cover location and weather issues in determining timing of splits.


Ray 

That’s a great indicator of timing the mating readiness of drones and can be combined, if one employs it, with Matt Davey’s OSBN technique-or a version of it.


----------



## AR1

Another La Nina winter, the third in a row. The link is to a page showing the results of 3 different weather models attempts to predict the coming winter's snow outlook. The upshot: Northwest and north US and Canada, more snow, Southwest and south US more heat and continuing dryness. Europe, another dry winter.








Winter 2022/2023 Snowfall Predictions: Final Snow Forecast for the United States, Canada, and Europe from the latest data as we now head into Winter


New Winter 2022/2023 snowfall predictions for the United States, Canada, and Europe, from the global long-range weather forecasting systems




www.severe-weather.eu





And, current global snow cover is record high, going back >50 years.








Snow Extent in the Northern Hemisphere now Among the Highest in 56 years Increases the Likelihood of Cold Early Winter Forecast both in North America and Europe


Snow extent in the Northern Hemisphere is much higher than average according to global estimates, and now among the highest ever observed. Winter forecast, especially in its early phase and in Europe, might be strongly influenced by such a large snow extent, although many other factors need...




www.severe-weather.eu


----------



## Snarge

AR1 said:


> Another La Nina winter, the third in a row. The link is to a page showing the results of 3 different weather models attempts to predict the coming winter's snow outlook. The upshot: Northwest and north US and Canada, more snow, Southwest and south US more heat and continuing dryness. Europe, another dry winter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Winter 2022/2023 Snowfall Predictions: Final Snow Forecast for the United States, Canada, and Europe from the latest data as we now head into Winter
> 
> 
> New Winter 2022/2023 snowfall predictions for the United States, Canada, and Europe, from the global long-range weather forecasting systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.severe-weather.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, current global snow cover is record high, going back >50 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Snow Extent in the Northern Hemisphere now Among the Highest in 56 years Increases the Likelihood of Cold Early Winter Forecast both in North America and Europe
> 
> 
> Snow extent in the Northern Hemisphere is much higher than average according to global estimates, and now among the highest ever observed. Winter forecast, especially in its early phase and in Europe, might be strongly influenced by such a large snow extent, although many other factors need...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.severe-weather.eu


Thanks AR1

Looks like drier and warmer in the south. I use GDD (growing degree day) 85-95 for my first set of drone eggs to be laid.


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## AR1

Wednesday, Thursday and Friday this week predicted temps as high as 50F (10C). Time permitting I will check my hives for food stores and see if they survived the low temps. -10F was as low as it got (-23C) so not expecting any problems if they were healthy otherwise. Past experience tells me that even weak colonies are likely to survive until mid to late winter regardless of temps. 

Merry Christmas all! Thanks for the encouragement and support this last year!


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## drummerboy

It's minus 7F here right now with predicted temps in the mid 30's by Wednesday. With the extreme change, could this be our January thaw? With 20" of snow the boards laid in front of our hives still had to be dug out so entrances could be viewed. The storm caused power outages throughout Sawyer County. Ours was out for 77 hours, but our solar battery lasted for 61 under mostly cloudy skies...a great test for our recently up-graded solar system. 

We'll be taking a peek in all hives this weekend with the predicted warm up. Any colony found with bees up in the top box will get a slab of fondant to get them through till late March/April. All of them, most likely.

All 6 colonies went into winter heavy, 4 in 2 mediums and 2 in 3 mediums, frames draped with poly and a half a deep box filled with insulation above. Been finding a small amount of dead bees at the entrances of all of them, even during this cold snap. A good sign imo.


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## Gray Goose

drummerboy said:


> Been finding a small amount of dead bees at the entrances of all of them, even during this cold snap. A good sign imo.


drummerboy
why do you think small amounts of dead bees at the entrance is a good thing.

GG


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## drummerboy

Gray Goose said:


> drummerboy
> why do you think small amounts of dead bees at the entrance is a good thing.
> 
> GG



Signs of life and expected signs of death. I don't worry about a few dead bees at the entrances during winter. Hundreds - or - none? Then I'd worry. I'd get out the stethoscope - or - wait until the next warm up to gather more info before taking action.

Before eliminating top entrances (2nd winter) we'd see many more dead, and lots scattered in the snow on sunny days all winter long. Not so much last year and this year seems a repeat...other than the storm we all just went through. 

This weeks warm up will offer an opportunity to check for 'how much' life is remaining and whether feeding is essential right now or we can wait another month. I'm confidant that bees know its only a temporary reprieve, but we do expect to see some flying with temps hovering above freezing by weekend.


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## crofter

I am keeping an eye on the entrances just to make sure the mouse and shrew screens dont plug. Without upper hive openings the bottom one is critical. So far I am not seeing much accumulation but I expect there will be some more die off of the last of the bees that did *some* foraging at the end of the season. I will occasionally be pulling out the several screws holding the mouse screens and raking the dead ones out with a long hooked stick. 

I can understand why the dedicated poly hives commonly have at least some screened bottom area.


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## Gray Goose

crofter said:


> I am keeping an eye on the entrances just to make sure the mouse and shrew screens dont plug. Without upper hive openings the bottom one is critical. So far I am not seeing much accumulation but I expect there will be some more die off of the last of the bees that did *some* foraging at the end of the season. I will occasionally be pulling out the several screws holding the mouse screens and raking the dead ones out with a long hooked stick.
> 
> I can understand why the dedicated poly hives commonly have at least some screened bottom area.


do you do this 1 time Frank or every few weeks?
I see a couple did one and half the bees that came out were live, almost got nailed in the face
I never thought the bees would be still on the bottom board.

GG


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## crofter

Gray Goose said:


> do you do this 1 time Frank or every few weeks?
> I see a couple did one and half the bees that came out were live, almost got nailed in the face
> I never thought the bees would be still on the bottom board.
> 
> GG


I wont have to rake them out till later when it is much colder. I have occasionally pulled a few live ones but they are not up to flying speed.


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## AR1

crofter said:


> I wont have to rake them out till later when it is much colder. I have occasionally pulled a few live ones but they are not up to flying speed.


I use small bottom entrances and have seen them get blocked, so I also use a stick to clear a gap. One hive that died had propolized all but 2 tiny holes, then when the bottom got covered in dead bees I think they smothered.


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## AR1

crofter said:


> I am keeping an eye on the entrances just to make sure the mouse and shrew screens dont plug. Without upper hive openings the bottom one is critical. So far I am not seeing much accumulation but I expect there will be some more die off of the last of the bees that did *some* foraging at the end of the season. I will occasionally be pulling out the several screws holding the mouse screens and raking the dead ones out with a long hooked stick.
> 
> I can understand why the dedicated poly hives commonly have at least some screened bottom area.


I wish I had some idea how much space was needed to insure enough O2 was getting in and CO2 out. It can't be much of an entrance, considering how the bees themselves will close all but a tiny gap.
I


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## crofter

AR1 said:


> I wish I had some idea how much space was needed to insure enough O2 was getting in and CO2 out. It can't be much of an entrance, considering how the bees themselves will close all but a tiny gap.
> I





AR1 said:


> I wish I had some idea how much space was needed to insure enough O2 was getting in and CO2 out. It can't be much of an entrance, considering how the bees themselves will close all but a tiny gap.
> I


Actually my bottom entrances are full width and 3/4" high. Because there is no upper entrance to create a strong convection current, you do not have to restrict bottom entrance size to control that effect. If you have both upper and lower openings the bees will attempt to propolise and restrict them.
High CO2 level is beneficial, actually helps by lowering metabolic rate.


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## drummerboy

We do the same, entrances are open (with mouse guards on), but....we lean a wide board against the front during winter to prevent windy drafts.


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## AR1

drummerboy said:


> We do the same, entrances are open (with mouse guards on), but....we lean a wide board against the front during winter to prevent windy drafts.


I do that too, and to hold back the drifts.


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## AR1

Well, learned something the hard way. Bees can't easily or quickly chew through parchment paper. I had a large pile of sugar on top a hive on parchment paper, assuming the bees would chew right through it. But no. They ate a bit of sugar at one end. Sadly, upon checking that hive today, I found them starved out. Frames were completely clean of honey, and a mass of dead bees between the frames. Only a fist-full of bees able to reach the sugar.

The other two hives had sugar on newspaper, and they can chew through that. So two living hives and one dead. It was 60 degrees today and sunny. Bees flying everywhere.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Bees can't easily or quickly chew through parchment paper.


Why, yes.
This is how I routinely use painter's tape (very similar to parchment paper).
They slowly work thru it at the edges.
For them to go thru the touch paper, I'd make incisions with knife - to give them biting edge.
Sorry AR.


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## jtgoral

AR1 said:


> Well, learned something the hard way. Bees can't easily or quickly chew through parchment paper. I had a large pile of sugar on top a hive on parchment paper, assuming the bees would chew right through it. But no. They ate a bit of sugar at one end. Sadly, upon checking that hive today, I found them starved out. Frames were completely clean of honey, and a mass of dead bees between the frames. Only a fist-full of bees able to reach the sugar.
> 
> The other two hives had sugar on newspaper, and they can chew through that. So two living hives and one dead. It was 60 degrees today and sunny. Bees flying everywhere.


If you use sugar bricks never put them on a QE. I killed 4 hives doing that couple years ago. Either direct on frames or minimum 1/2" wire mesh.

Today it was cloudy and sometimes rainy 52F but all my hives were flying


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## GregB

jtgoral said:


> If you use sugar bricks never put them on a QE......
> ....
> Today it was cloudy and sometimes rainy 52F but all my hives were flying


You meant to never have QE in the wintering hive? 

Some of my backyard hives were flying.
In fact, those brooding the latest were flying (I already marked them down).
Useless activity that cost them lots of perished bees that never returned.
The back porch is covered in bees - too cold to return home.


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## jtgoral

GregB said:


> You meant to never have QE in the wintering hive?


QE was on the top of upper box and below ventilation box with corks in ventilation holes.


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## AR1

jtgoral said:


> If you use sugar bricks never put them on a QE. I killed 4 hives doing that couple years ago. Either direct on frames or minimum 1/2" wire mesh.
> 
> Today it was cloudy and sometimes rainy 52F but all my hives were flying


I usually make hard sugar blocks and put them directly on the frames. This year I used granulated sugar on paper, so having to learn new tricks. One hive I just looked at flying activity, I know they have lots of sugar. The other hive I opened, lots and lots of bees, and still a fair bit of sugar, but I added some more.


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## GregB

jtgoral said:


> It was on the top of upper box and below ventilation box with corks in ventilation holes.


And it still killed your bees? 
All the same - QE in wintering hives is a liability (not help).


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## jtgoral

GregB said:


> And it still killed your bees?
> All the same - QE in wintering hives is a liability (not help).


They went above QE to eat and where to crowded to go back through small holes when the temperature dropped very quickly at night.


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## ursa_minor

AR1 said:


> Well, learned something the hard way. Bees can't easily or quickly chew through parchment paper. I had a large pile of sugar on top a hive on parchment paper, assuming the bees would chew right through it. But no.


Holy cow I dodged a bullet I was considering parchment paper this fall. Sorry to hear of this loss, but glad you shared it with the rest of us so we can avoid that problem.


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## GregB

ursa_minor said:


> parchment paper this fall.


I has to be trivial newspaper OR kitchen paper towel (my choice) OR very thin plastic film (I have not tested which type exactly).
I wrap fondant pancakes into towels and use a little painter's tape to hold all together.


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