# Indiana new beekeeper



## AmericasBeekeeper

Welcome MM!


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## muddymom

Thank you. Glad to have people to exchange ideas with


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## Rader Sidetrack

Welcome to Beesource!



muddymom said:


> I am looking forward to having my bees next year-- just hoping I can find a seller who is using the TBH and has gone non chemical as regressing bees to non chemical use results in frequent die off.


Its not clear to me why your desired source of bees would need to be using a TBH. Even if you wanted to buy bees with comb already built (a TBH 'nuc'), you will likely have difficulty finding comb to match your TBH dimensions/proportions.

Most likely, a package (typically 3 lbs of bees plus a queen) will be your best bet for populating your TBH hives. If you can't find "non chemically" raised bees within driving distance from Castle IN, here is one source of "no chemicals" bees for you to consider:

http://www.arnoldhoneybeeservices.com/html/bees_for_sale.html


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## muddymom

My thought to buying bees from someone using natural comb is that I am interested in them having already converted the cell size from the large size found in todays bee hives back to the smaller cell size that occur naturally.
I did check out the site you suggested and am having them send me an order form. Russians aren't my first choice but the fact that they are raised without chemicals is a big plus


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## Rader Sidetrack

If you check the Arnold site again, you will find they offer Italians as well as Russians. I agree that Italians are a better choice for a new beekeeper, compared to Russians.


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## Colleen O.

Welcome and congratulations on your start toward beekeeping!

I started this year and am taking a similar path with two TBH and no chemicals.

I purchased a package of Italian bees and later re-queened with a New World Carniolan (NWC) and a late summer Buckfast nuc that I did a chop and crop on. The new queen really turned the package hive around (enough that I think they might survive the winter) and the nuc may suprise me. My package bees regressed fairly quick as they started on no comb. The Carniolan bees were faster at putting up stores in September and I think it was because they fly in cooler weather. They were out earlier on cool mornings and on cool days that the Buckfast bees weren't out flying. (Not knocking the Buckfast bees, they are GREAT, they just don't seem to fly as cold but that may be because I got them out of MS and they aren't acclimated to cool temperatures yet.)


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## Rick_ Sprague

Welcome MM. We have an East Central Indiana Bee Association that meets the 2nd Tuesday every month. We also have a all day Bee School in February with over 600 attendees. This might be something that may interest you. Lots of good beekeepers with all different answers...Ha

Rick


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## BooneCtyBeek

Rich is on to something. There are a lot of great resources near you, especially a new beek. Get connected with the ISBA, hoosierbuzz.freeforums.org, http://hoosierbuzz.com; or the IBA, http://indianabeekeeper.com. Both groups have a host of resources and other beeks who'll help you out.

Jeff Singletary

www.rjhoney.com


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## muddymom

Collen. Thanks for the encouragement,can you tell me where yoou got your package from. Also where did you get the NWC queen.
I would like to have a package of NWC bees as we tend to have cooler temperatures for longer periods of time-zone 5b. a lot of the plants here bloom durring this cool spring weather and bees willing to forage in cooler temps would be an advantage.


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## Colleen O.

Muddymom,

I ordered the Italian package from a company in Illinois but they subcontracted and I actually got bees from Georgia. They were good to work with but I don't recommended that route. The NWC queen was from Strachan in California and they were great to work with and got the queen to me in short order. The bees love her (large retinue) and that queen has really turned the hive around as far as brood and stores but I have noticed the bees are not as good at keeping the hive clean as my Buckfast bees are. This is my first year and I have a lot to learn but I think after my Buckfast bees acclimate they will do better as treatment free bees than my NWCs due to that trait. My very inexperienced recommendation is to try to find local treatment free bees to start with. If you don't find them, look for a treatment free queen of the type you want and requeen them. There is a big Michigan association that has some bee vendors listed on their website, I will look for the link.

I did a quick search but didn't find any treatment free bee vendors listed on their website. These aren't treatment free but it looks like Noble Apiaries in California ships Carniolan packages. Strachan (they really were WONDERFUL to work with and the queen is really great) and Olivarez both sell the queens (both in California). Your local bee club might have more info. They also might get together as a group and order packages and queens. The one here did. You might check on their website.


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## Colleen O.

Muddymom, you also might want to check out Gold Star Honeybees. That is where I bought my purchased hive from and it looks like they start selling treatment free bee packages in January. I'm not sure if they ship out of state or what type of bees but it would be worth a look. The owner was really responsive and helpful and they have a lot of good info on their website. She makes a version of TBH based on Phil Chandler's design. I think she also has a book out now.


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## indypartridge

Hello and Welcome!

As Rich and Jeff said, getting involved with a local club and the State associations is a great way to find mentors and get connected to other beekeepers:
http://www.in.gov/dnr/entomolo/files/ep-beekeeper_assoc.pdf

I also agree with Radar that if you're planning a TBH, your best bet is just to get a package. Whether the seller was "non chemical" or not is of little consequence, since the bees from the package will be nearly all dead in about six weeks, replaced by new bees raised in your non-chemical TBH. I'd recommend ordering a package from Graham's in Morgantown:
http://www.grahamsbeeworks.com/
I've bought many packages (and nucs) over the years from them. Roger drives them up from down south, so they don't spend several days being shipped. (As a side note, Roger has experiemented with different TBH designs in conjunction with some military initiatives at Camp Atterbury.) Graham's are also a good source for Indiana-raised, survivor-stock queens.

Hope we can meet at a bee meeting sometime!
Indy


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## muddymom

Thank you for the link to graham's site. I will be contacting them about bees


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## muddymom

Am in contact wj th Goldstar. Not sure yet if she is able to ship bees. Its a little far to drive.


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## Colleen O.

It looks like most packages are out of either the south or California. You might be best served getting a cheap package (or two if you plan on the two hives people recommend to stay queen-right) and buying quality treatment free queens to re-queen them.

If my bees don't overwinter instead of the package or nuc route I plan to try to lure in a swarm as a replacement next year. A friend of mine had two stop in his yard looking for a home in the past few years so I know a likely spot to put a swarm box.


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## muddymom

Collen. Sounds like a good plan capturing swarm if yours don't overwinter. Found a beekeeper outside Indianapolis who will be bringing nucs up this spring.the bees are a mix of several strains, nothing beats hybrid vigor. He has good luck with them says they are resistant. 
Have one hive almost done, debating painting outsides as they are pine.


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## Colleen O.

Would the nuc be a TBH nuc? I did a chop and crop on the Buckfast nuc I got from Mississippi and while it went okay most don't recommend it. Make sure to find out if they are on foundationless, wired wax, or plastic foundation, etc... I'll talk about it with you in more detail if that is the way you decide to go. I took quite a few pics which might be helpful too.

I painted a flower on my GoldStar hive and then used shellac over it to preserve it. Not my finest work but I was in a hurry and had to use the paints I had on hand. The shellac preseved the wood on that side nicely and in retrospect I should have sprayed the other side too. I plan to paint a different flower on my cedar hive over Christmas. For aesthetics and also to help the bees orient.


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## muddymom

If I get a nuc it will be a standard langstrom style witg foundation, he didn't say if wax or plastic. Been watching videos on how to put them on top of the TBH in hopes they will willingly move down. Seems like extra work. He also has a limited number of overwintered nucs but they are out of my price range. We do have a TBH apiary in the area. Next meeting I need to ask about maybe getting some bees from him. Even an empty section of brood comb would help. I worry about bringing southern raised bees up. They have a larger SHB problem down there.


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## Colleen O.

muddymom said:


> We do have a TBH apiary in the area. Next meeting I need to ask about maybe getting some bees from him. Even an empty section of brood comb would help. I worry about bringing southern raised bees up. They have a larger SHB problem down there.


Great idea on contacting the TBH apiary.

You are right to be concerned about bringing pests up with the bees. SHB either found me awful fast or they hitched a ride in my packages. I didn't have wax worms until I brought the nuc home and I know they had them at their apiary. I know some small hive beetles came along with the nuc, I crushed a few hiving it. The Buckfast bees I got are also "Tiger", which are bees that have been bred to combat SHB and deal with their slime better than most. Between them and me I think I got rid of the pests but I also hope our winter is cold enough to kill any that remain (but not the bees please! ) The pests hitching a ride in is another reason catching a swarm sounds like a good idea to me for replacement bees.


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## indypartridge

muddymom said:


> Am in contact with Goldstar.


I attended a class taught by Christy a year ago. She makes some nice TBH's.

Would also be worth the trip to Morgantown to visit the Graham's store. Good place to get equipment without paying shipping. Roger also makes/sells TBH's.

Also, there's a new TBH book that you may want to add to your Christmas wish list:
http://www.tbhsbywam.com/


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## muddymom

It's already on my list. Great reviews but a little spendy. Need to get milage from house to Grahams so can plan trip. Trying Phils deep floor system on one hive and conventional screen on other. Would be soo nice to set them up and have swarm move in come spring


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## Colleen O.

I just ordered Christy's book and Dean Stiglitz's book on Sunday. Dean's should get here Wednesday, Christy's is not estimated to ship until mid January.

That would be excellent to have a swarm move in. I found Lemongrass Oil at Whole Foods. From what I have read, that and some old brood comb should be enough to at least get them looking at the hive as a potential new home. I have the comb now, but if you can't find any I think Gold Star sells a chunk of it as a starter. No worries about pests, you just freeze the comb for a few days.


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## Birdman

Muddymom? You must have boy's. Welcome to the fourm, I may be able to help you out this spring. I have not put any thing in my hive's other than pollen patties and sugar water. Grahams beeworks in Morgantown like indypartridge said. I have a few of their queens they build up good. Good luck. Pat


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## muddymom

Boys? LOL No ran sleddogs on wheeled gigs in WA . Lottsa mud.. now just get muddy gardening. Got to get an order going for a package. Decided against a nuc as often get extra suprise of shb or wax moth larvae.Trying to stay with locally produced bees, love to find someone who has a cross of several strains that they have been developing.
Will be cutting bars soon. What size is good width for a filler strip? Also if using an end entrance sbould I place one of the wider bars first before my bars for brood.
Been reading posts and notice that comb for honey is deeper.thinking of 1 1/2 " width for the back bars and the 1 3/8" for brood comb bars. Any thoughts?


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## Colleen O.

Sleddogs, wow - would have never guessed that. I was guessing gardening.

We should probably move this discussion to the TBH forum, you will get more input from more people there.

The bars on the hive I bought were wedge shaped and 1 3/8" wide. I modeled the ones I made after them but made half 1 1/4" and half 1 1/2" wide. The original package bees were bigger than the bees are now and I found they were building the comb to one side of the bars to give themselves the space they wanted when I used the 1 1/4" bars in the broodnest. I had to add 1/8" spacer pieces to get them on track. Now that the bees have regressed a bit they are fine on the smaller bars but my point is that the 1 3/8" bars may be easier and more versatile. I was going with Mike Bush's size recommendations when I made mine. Someone said they buy triangular molding and nail/screw/adhere that to their bars as a guide. Sounds a lot easier than what I did (but my bars sure are pretty!).


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## muddymom

Sounds like good advice. I will just start with the 1 3/8 and change out to smaller bars once they regress in size. Finished the hive body today now onto the bars. Thinking of drilling a shallow pilot hole 1 1/2" in from each end then running a dovetail router bit down the centerline. Would secure the wax guideline better than jusr a straight sided cut


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## Marc

Hi muddymom, I just came across this thread searching for something else. Welcome to the most addictive hobby in the world! Beekeeper here in Carmel, Indiana. Mostly frame hives, but have one tbh that I bought and liked working with it a lot. If you haven't doen so already, I would search for the brand new TBH book by Wyatt Mangum. I got mine for Christmas and have been reading on and off in it since. It's a great book for people into keeping bees in TBHs, written by a guy that knows his stuff about them. Lots of good advice from his own experience about everything from how to start as a total beginner to how to safely get them through the winter. I HIGHLY recommend it. Good luck with the TBH and above all have fun with it!

Happy New Year!


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