# 2017 prep work: how many TBH how many TBH nuc hives?



## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

I like to have one or two nucs for each hive, so 6 and 6 or 4 and 8 would make your 12. Nucs are easier to work, and will give you many more opportunities to learn, make splits, raise queens.
I do not think that I would ever pay for TBH plans, but to each their own. They are just not that complicated! Bigger is better, unless you want to, or have to move them a lot! LOL


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I'd thank on langs - you can get these everywhere. TBH are a group of there own


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## HillerFarms (Jul 22, 2016)

Hah, yeah, I think my first set of TBH I just wanted to go for tried and true and Bee thinking has some plans for both nuc and tbh for $19. I think my buddy will appreciate that😂!


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

You have more than enough time to study and build this winter.
Why pay someone for plans copied from the internet?
There are dozens for free, plus if you read and digest info, you can build
your own for the cost of your materials/tools/labour.

The data is there the dimensions of all different types of tbh's.
Since you are new, I honestly recommend you study before spending cash on anything.

Before making a tbh that is for northern lattitudes, you are in TX where it get hot, and in a tbh that
means meltdown with the deeper bodies short topbars.
In all honesty you need wider topbars and a shallow body for the heat.
that's not how those plans are designed.
Get Crowder's book and Magnum's opus of info.
read read read. there's nt much there about tbh in the deserts, but there are some hints
from a few working in Africa and India where it's hot like here in the SW USA.

should say I'm in AZ not OR as my location shows.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

David - bees in Texas do not let the hive get so hot that wax melts - where did you get that idea? I've been running bees here for 40 years - and if you know how to handle combs - they won't get hot enough to melt - Your talking 140 degrees - Again where's that info coming from?????


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

Here's a link to calculating your own TBH dimensions. 

This pic gives you the data for many of the different tbh's in production.

helps in designing your tbh's


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

SAK I'm talking about tbh not langs which do fine in hot weather
not sure if you mean tbh or langs, or where you are coming from, most what I read about you is Lang hives.

It's from my own personal experience here in Arizona and up in Oregon.
We had melt down in our TBH's at 105F last summer in Grants Pass, OR made to specs from Michael Bushes site,
and here in Heber/Overgaard last year with that design and W.Magnums style. both meltdowns, and just last week
here in Heber I had a melt down.
I have plenty of vent and imo it's the narrow depth of the tbh which causes the build up of heat.
I have a shallow tbh with 24' bars, 10" deep box, and 10" wide bottom, 60" long, it the had no problems with soft wax last week with our 100F+ heat as did the others. my laser thermometer is in Oregon atm. and our heat is over for the summer up here in the hills.
just saying...

I found reading on various blogs from Beekeepers in India and Africa about depth and top bar length
and for real, atm there's not much solid info yet. 
Myself, I have both type in Oregon and in Arizona. everything is an experiment.

and now you have me wondering about the wax stretching and collapsing in these current tbh's. the temps and all. plus all the swarming I've dealt with this last month.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

And that is what I run - all langs - Just trying to learn on TBHs as I have been thanking on shaking a couple just for personal - family comb honey so don't take my response in a negative way - But for comb to get soft/melt - that happens at 140 degrees - if it gets that hot in a hive - I would believe the bees have long since cooked - so I guess for my comb honey I had better stick with what I know and use a foundationless frame box. Again thanks for the info - I love this website and even after all the years in beekeeping - can learn something new.
And I also hate to here about your meltdowns
SAK


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

double post


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

If you need 12 colonies get one, put it in a TBH and with all the swarms it issues you'll have the 12 you need in no time as long as you keep them alive in the "winter" down there.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

jwcarlson said:


> If you need 12 colonies get one, put it in a TBH and with all the swarms it issues you'll have the 12 you need in no time as long as you keep them alive in the "winter" down there.


Why so sardonic? You could accomplish the same thing by clogging the brood nest in a Lang. Don't blame poor management on a hive design.


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

DavidZ said:


> SAK I'm talking about tbh not langs which do fine in hot weather
> not sure if you mean tbh or langs, or where you are coming from, most what I read about you is Lang hives.
> 
> It's from my own personal experience here in Arizona and up in Oregon.
> ...


Most of my TBHs where built following Bush's plans, with a 1x8 on the bottom instead of the 1x6. This last winter I built two TBHs and nucs with a 1x10 bottom board and 23 in bars. I like how it is handling the heat a little better, the bees are drawing out some beautiful comb, even though one got of to a bad start. I cannot imagine a 24 inch bar, 23 inches seems like a long enough reach.


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## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

TBH will handle the heat if built so the bees can easily regulate the temperature and the hive condenses water correctly. I have TBHs in a hot summer climate and if it is over 100 degrees outside, the comb is easy to break. So I just open hives earlier in the day.

I recommend at least full 1.25 inch thick sides at a 25 degree slope. Also make sure there is good air flow under the roof and over the top bars. Make templates of your follower board so all your hives are the same. Then it is easy the move comb from one hive to the next.

I also use screened bottoms that I leave open except 2 to 3 months in the winter. My screens are 5 inches wide with the sides extending down past the screens about 3 inches. This way the wind does not blow directly across the screened bottom. 

I also highly recommend you put in an observation window in each hive and nuc. You can get a quick look or watch for 30 minutes without changing the internal atmosphere of the hive. 

Each of my hives cost about 60 dollars and the window adds another $10 buying everything from a big box store.


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

Nordak said:


> Why so sardonic? You could accomplish the same thing by clogging the brood nest in a Lang. Don't blame poor management on a hive design.


You will find that JW had TBHs and when things got difficult he jumped the fence for the greener side! LOL He now joins a small group of vocal people on BeeSource who are trying to save the world from the things they could not figure out.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Chuck Jachens said:


> Make templates of your follower board so all your hives are the same.


This is a pro tip for sure, one that I only recently implemented myself this year. Makes uniformity so much easier than reworking the measurements every time you need to start working on a new box.


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

Hiller, 
Twelve hives is a lot to start with regardless of what kind of box you put them in. It is like like learning to fly by buying a helicopter. 

Starting off with half nucs is a good move. When things go pear shaped with a big colony it is harder to fix. Installing six packages in nucs with the intention of expanding to twelve hives the second year seems manageable.

It doesn't matter too much which hive design you choose. Just make sure they all take the same size comb. Any comb size between a medium and deep frame in surface area is good. Sloped sides make for more stable comb. Most people prefer a box about four feet long for a full size hive. Eighteen inches is a good nuc size.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

That's a good point, 12 hives is a lot to start with. I would add also, because of the nature of TBHs, they will be more management intensive, especially in the beginning when you are going to have to make sure the bees are keeping comb straight. Keep in mind, if you decide to go the nuc route, which are useful for various reasons Duncan151 stated, those nucs will quickly outgrow their box size. I'm not trying to discourage your use of TBHs, but you are going to have to have quite a bit of spare time to manage the hives during spring.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

HillerFarms said:


> We recently moved to 21 acres in March. We are completely new to beekeeping, (our neighbors are a season ahead, have a few hives, and are willing to help us).
> 
> we have decided to keep bees as our way to become tax ag exempt for our land.....when we checked up on that, we would need proof for 12 hives due to our land size!
> 
> ...


It all depends on what the law defines as hives. If the laws allows 12 single deeps then 12 2 footers (Mangum style?) should do the trick. That assumes they will think top bar hives are 'hives'.


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## JeronimoJC (Jul 21, 2016)

I am sure you've come across online posts of people struggling with TBH cross comb and similar issues. It can be frustrating for some. If TBH is new to you, it may be a good idea to have some flexibility in your hive design. 

Have you consider going with long Langtroths and top bars? One advantage is you can use frames from a standard Langstroth. Consider that nucs are typically sold in Langstroth frames. Also, you can encourage the bees to build straight comb on top bars if you place the top bars between drawn frames. There are some folks who place supers on top of a long Lang box also. Langstroth drawings and cut sheets are easy to find online. 

Last, I would definitely keep around some nucs. If you went with the Long Lang design, you could also add some used deep brood boxes. In fact, you could step things up from nuc to deep brood box, to long lang as your colonies grow and you would have plenty of flexibility.


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