# Treatment Free Queens



## sonnypemberton (Sep 10, 2012)

Wolf Creek in TN


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## Beehaive (Apr 22, 2012)

sonnypemberton said:


> Wolf Creek in TN


It says on their website that they were hit by a tornado, I have tried to contact them by phone and E-mail. Anyone know their status?


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

I can't confirm this for sure, but I heard from a local supplier that John and Ruth were getting out. Apparently John is in really poor health. Again, can't confirm this, but just what I heard from a local supplier.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Bjorn Apiaries in PA sells treatment free queens. He's in PA like me, so if you need them now you're out of luck. But if you want them later, you may want to check them out.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Is Wolf Creek treatment-free? From their website:



> Small cell bees, when used in conjunction with screen bottom boards along with powder sugar dusting in the fall, will give an effective chemical free control of Varroa.


ok...that's not quite treatment free...but not too far off....but also on their website is: (and note that they suggest a treatment from chalkbrood among 



> WOLF CREEK APIARIES
> 930 HWY. 438
> CENTERVILLE, TN. 37033
> (931) 729-9229 ( PLEASE: Call before coming )
> ...


Thyme oil, sugar dusting, wintergreen oil, garlic powder, eucoliptis oil, crisco, boric acid, hydrated lime, lemon grass oil, soy flour, vitamin C, brewers yeast....and note the lack of using any kind of emulsifier when using oils in syrup...



> Mix 1 teaspoon of Tea Tree Oil with ½ cup of water. Put into a blender and blend on low speed for 4-5 minutes. Put the mixture into a ½ gallon jar of water and shake it up. Then pour 1 cup of the afore mentioned mixture into a gallon of sugar water and feed this mixture to the bees for a month.


...how does the oil not separate from the water? I don't use EO's, but i do know that keeping them from separating from the syrup is important.

Not much treatment free in any of these procedures.

deknow


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

...how does the oil not separate from the water? I don't use EO's, but i do know that keeping them from separating from the syrup is important.

You have to emulsify the oil by blending at high speed with syrup. I tried using soy lethicin granules but I think they just absorbed the EO's and the treatment was ineffective.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

So when you use a blender, the oil does not separate out? The bees get a consistent concentration of EO blended into the syrup? I have a hard time believing that, but I have never done it. My understanding is that the worst thing that can happen is that the oil separates out, floats to the top of the syrup, and is consumed in very high concentration at the "bottom" of the feeder.

deknow

deknow


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

We have not treated in over 5 years.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?276237-2013-vsh-queens-for-sale

Johnny


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The oil will stay emulsified long enough to be consumed but the oils usually make the blender so strong smelling that it is no longer going to make your wife happy. Fatbeeman is where I got the idea and instructions. Johnny, do you attribute your treatment free sucess to your VSH breeding alone or do you use other measures? Looking forward to meeting your queens in a couple months.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

There are different reasons from wanted "treatment free queens", and what is desirable really depends on your goals.

I think everyone should be looking for queens that have never been treated with fumidil. I believe some of the current books recommend the opposite. Anyone that is producing queens without using fumidil would fit this qualification.

Some want to buy untreated queens to head untreated colonies...looking for success on an "individual queen level". The goal here is to buy a good queen, and to buy another good queen when you need another. I have no criticism for this approach...but one should understand what they are or are not doing. For this, Johnnys queens would be perfect. As he has detailed in the VSH breeding thread, he is propagating from new VSH breeders every year, and mating them with a drone population weighted towards last years VSH breeders. His procedure is demonstrated (in his own operation) to work, so whatever a good balance is with VSH genetics, he has shown he is producing it. Note however, that he doesn't expect this population (its VSH traits, its other traits)to persist...he brings in new breeders every year.

If one is looking for untreated queens as a way to start breeding bees that don't require treatments down the line, I think bees that are selected for survival, production, and temperament without treatments are your best bet.

deknow


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## pkalisz (Oct 15, 2012)

Wolf Creek seems to still be accepting orders:

"NOTICE: We were hit by an FT2 tornado on Jan. 30. 2013 and have suffered extensive damage to both our home and our property. We are okay, but right now our efforts are focused on getting back to normal. The phones are out and AT&T tells us that they may be so for another week. If you wish to order, send your requests through e-mail and we will answer them as soon as possible. If we are shipping bees to you, please include your full address along with a phone number. Also include about when you will want the bees. When we get back to you, we will have all your information ready. It may be a week or so before we will be up and running, so please be patient."


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## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

Wolf Creek does not claim to be treatment free! Notice this quote from their Philosphy Page:

"We have never used toxic chemicals on our bees. For the last seven years we have used natural oils to strengthen the bees immune system. About that time we switched to the 4.9mm bee and other organic practices"

Read ALL the info before commenting. I have noticed this to be a big problem on this forum. No offense to anyone. Also as to using a blender to mix oil & water, works perfectly. Will stay mixed w/o seperating for months. Try it for yourself.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

The only ones I know for sure are BWeaver and Michael Bush, but Mike is just one man.

If you live near me, I sell treatment free queens and nucs and I've been keeping them for almost ten years. I don't ship.


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

Vance, I think there are several reasons that we are treatment free. First off is the fact that although we have a lot invested in our equipment we do not depend on bees for a living. If they were to crash this spring we would not loose the farm. This gives us the leeway to experiment if you will with treatment free beekeeping.

We decided 5 or 6 years ago we would not treat and try hygenic/resistant stock to fight varroa. I think that is a big part of our success. Another is our location. We are stationary beekeepers in an area with little rowcropping, thus a very low pesticide usage. We have good forage with a variety of blooming plants thru the year. Its not uncommen for bees to be bringing in pollen during Christmas.

With selected genetics, good forage and low stress our bees have been able to survive without treatment. Remove any of these and it probably wouldn't work.

Deknow's statement made me think of something Richard Adee once said, "Its **** hard to breed from the ones that didn't survive."

Johnny


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

If one is looking for untreated queens as a way to start breeding bees that don't require treatments down the line, I think bees that are selected for survival, production, and temperament without treatments are your best bet.

Deknow do you know who sells these?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

We haven't yet gotten around to treating any of our bees, going on 20 plus years now -- I hope we never need to. We raise a few SunKist queens from breeder queens (more each year), open mated in an area saturated with SunKist drones. We also raise and ship queen cells.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

Joseph Clemens said:


> We haven't yet gotten around to treating any of our bees, going on 20 plus years now -- I hope we never need to. We raise a few SunKist queens from breeder queens (more each year), open mated in an area saturated with SunKist drones. We also raise and ship queen cells.


Are you going to have much of a supply of the Italian/Carniolian queens? Would you be willing to ship to Missouri? I had 2 last year from russell's that with my limited experience with them (ended up having to sell them to nuc customers) were awesome. Wall to wall, top to bottom brood. I'd like to get a couple of these and see if that experience continued. I have a sunkist and 2 daughter queens from her, but none of them have had a fair shake to show me what they can do. (I kept stealing frames of brood from the mother to try and make daughters and then a god awful drought).


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> Does Mike Bush sell Queens? 

I have in the past and planned to last year, but with my speaking schedule, I had no time. I hope to this year, but now I've taken a full time job, so I won't have as much time as I had hoped to spend on it. Keep an eye on my website. There is a page on "queens for sale" and when I have some again, I'll have it updated.


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## wadehump (Sep 30, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> > Does Mike Bush sell Queens?
> 
> I have in the past and planned to last year, but with my speaking schedule, I had no time. I hope to this year, but now I've taken a full time job, so I won't have as much time as I had hoped to spend on it. Keep an eye on my website. There is a page on "queens for sale" and when I have some again, I'll have it updated.


I will keep checking I want to be in.


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