# What to do with 4 framers?



## stevethebeeman (Mar 27, 2013)

I wouldn't count on a sugar roll to test for mites id do a chem strip and some sticky boards. Not sure if cotton uses seed treatments sounds like they are getting damaged by something I see this all the time always more then likely due to farm chemicals. Here in the Midwest get the bees home in the spring and have a dusting of dead bees on the ground.


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## bees81 (Dec 2, 2015)

There is also hundreds and hundreds of acres of corn within 2 mile radius, along with pistachio/almond orchards, alfalfa fields, more cotton its a heavily farmed area and there always seems to be some type of spraying going on.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

bees81 said:


> its a heavily farmed area and there always seems to be some type of spraying going on.


Yeah, me too. If you know the farmers, you might have some luck trying to get them to spray at times that are better for your bees, but they need to spray. Tread easy as they can be resistant to change their program. I've found spraying near dusk is far easier on bees. In your case, if the cotton was in bloom, then the losses you saw were very likely due to cotton spray. I've found that colonies can rebound, but I've also seen premature queen losses associated with spray events ( I have no hard data to prove such a claim, but things seem to match up). This would be the biggest issue to watch for during recovery. Also, you need critical mass of bees to make more bees, so you may need to do some strategic combining of nucs to boost populations. 

If there is that much farming going on around you, then this is going to be a persistent issue for you. You can expect continued losses unless you can reach some level of agreement with the farmers. We're in a dearth when cotton blooms in my area, so it is completely impossible to keep the bees out of the cotton. The sad fact is that cotton honey is pretty low grade honey and yields seem to be reducing each year. I've found the same true for soybeans. Beans are not as bad as cotton, but losses do occur. Unfortunately the only guaranteed method is to find yards that are 5 miles or more away from agriculture. That is nearly impossible for me without traveling a long distance into bear country. 


Sorry for your loss.


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## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

check the older post from for sale form seen bulk bees for sale before from the mid west i think


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## bfriendly (Jun 14, 2009)

4 framers or less in my operation get combined this time of year (preferably dealt with earlier). 

If you're concerned about keeping your numbers up you could try combining with an excluder in the middle.

Adding an excluder ends up being quite a bit of extra work (vs combining without an excluder) but about 60-80 percent should still have 2 queens laying and can often be 2 full box of bees ready to be split and add box right after almonds. *note: this is for cali where there should be brood, I would not try this earlier in the fall or if combining somewhere colder. Be aware of where the frames of honey/brood are in each box so the cluster doesn't abandon one queen below.

When combining try to put one stronger "seeming" hive with one weaker "seeming" one. If you put two "bad" ones together, they often will just fizzle out or hang there and not get any stronger.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

50 - 100 I can't help you with; sorry.

I do want to tell you about something I have done as an experiment over the last 2 years.
So, I am plowing through the hives, grading size for almonds in January in Oregon and also installing pollen sub.
I run double deeps and place the patty in between boxes.
2 years ago, I ran across a 6 framer with all of the bees in the top.
I worried that if I placed the patty in between that much of it would be ignored and go to waste prior to boosting the hive in California.
So as ****amamie as this might sound, I reversed the boxes, place TWO pollen patties over the cluster in the bottom box with about3/8" gap between them and then covered the patties with a few cups of granulated sugar.
then place the empty box on top.
My thinking was that the patties would hold heat in the lower brood nest as the bees slowly ate through and grew accordingly.
WOW!!!!!!!
All I can say is, "try it!"
It appears that this method revs them up at the fastest possible rate.
If you do this with a healthy 6 framer in early January, don't be one bit surprised to find a very nice hive that need very little in the way of resources other than feed.
Maybe I'll take some before and after pictures to share.


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