# Insulation options for nucs



## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

I've been wintering nucs for nine years. This year I'll go into winter with about 125. I'm at 2100 feet in the appalachians of SW VA. We get some days down to -15 F or so in many winters. All mine are mediums, 95% 5 frame singles, and the configuration for winter was always as doubles, but as I've accumulated more equipment, more than half winter in triples with a few quads. I started out pushing all my nucs together, but I haven't done that since my second winter. There was no difference in survival. All I do is add a piece of extruded foam to the top under the cover. Extruded polystyrene foam is the higher R value foam. It's the one that comes in pink, light blue, or green typically. It is a closed cell foam vs expanded polystyrene which is open cell (white styrofoam). Most years I have around 5 -10% losses, but never from freezing. You do have to feed them up in the fall.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

rkereid said:


> I've been wintering nucs for nine years. This year I'll go into winter with about 125. I'm at 2100 feet in the appalachians of SW VA. We get some days down to -15 F or so in many winters. All mine are mediums, 95% 5 frame singles, and the configuration for winter was always as doubles, but as I've accumulated more equipment, more than half winter in triples with a few quads. I started out pushing all my nucs together, but I haven't done that since my second winter. There was no difference in survival. All I do is add a piece of extruded foam to the top under the cover. Extruded polystyrene foam is the higher R value foam. It's the one that comes in pink, light blue, or green typically. It is a closed cell foam vs expanded polystyrene which is open cell (white styrofoam). Most years I have around 5 -10% losses, but never from freezing. You do have to feed them up in the fall.


Thanks for the info. Are yours plywood or 3/4" wood? 
Also, when you put the foam under the cover is this above an "inner cover"? Been wondering about whether the insulation in there without an inner cover would create condensation to form and fall on the colony...?


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

All mine are 3/4" wood or plywood. Each box has one 3/4" hole in it for ventilation. My nuc inner covers are scrap tarp pieces. I've got lots of older heavy silver/brown tarps from my construction years. I cut them up to cover the top, then the foam (in winter only), and then a cover made from whatever scrap 3/4 wood I have. The foam does not cause condensation. In fact, it is what prevents it. When warm and moist air comes in contact with a cold surface, condensation forms. By using the foam board the cold is not in contact with warm moist air.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Going to try one more time with better quality pictures.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Hopefully these are better

View attachment 36173
View attachment 36174


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

First photo are overwintering mating nuc colonies, divided deeps with mini frames on each side. I find the smaller colonies really benefit from some kind of protection, depending on your climate. They can't build up in spring with the small population and generate enough heat without protection. 









If your climate was colder than mine, you could give them an overall tar paper wrap around the cluster.









Overwintering quad mating nuc 

















I have a small yard at a higher elevation I never get around to wrapping, but they are all large well populated hives and do just fine.
My temps are moderated by my proximity to the Pacific and temps around 0 F are only occasional. 
I am 3 hours from Canadian border, 3 hours from the coast.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I am a big believer in divided double deeps. Then I wrap with an insulated wrap and you need top insulation with an r value higher than the sides. Some mountain camp thru a queen excluder in a common feeder rim eliminates starvation. Keeping bees warm and well fed pays off for me. I bet you could grow nucs splittable size in the spring this way. You will need to be religious about mite control.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I agree, doubles over singles if possible. 
Singles overwinter fine, but take more labor/tending in spring. Doubles have more of everything they will need without the beekeepers help. More stored feed if winter is persistent, more room for expansion.









For the mating nuc sized colonies, as some of the last round of mated queens dribbles out the door late summer, I combine everything I have into doubles as the now queenless colonies become available.
If any mites are present, they will target the weakest or less mite resistant colony of the bunch. As you say, mite control is important. If you have multi queen units, I think you will fins the one with the poorest returns during the season is not the location of the entrance but the fact they are the mites choice colony for easy, less harassed living.
If you overwinter colonies on these mini frames, of course they will have some mites in spring that can multiply if not addressed. 
Sometimes running virgins through them works well, sometimes it is not quite enough. If you ignore that, you will not have good overwintering success.


































These units take some fiddling, but it is sure nice to have those late summer mated queens available in Feb or March.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Thank you rkereid, Thank you Lauri, very helpful
Sounds like i will go with some R5 around them all, feed shim, quilt box, insulation and then cover. 
Maybe i'll take a pic and put it up in the next day or two for feedback.
Chris


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

cbay said:


> Maybe i'll take a pic and put it up in the next day or two for feedback.
> Chris


Well a day or two turned in to almost a month... 
Been MIA trying to catch up with this guy in the picture. I'm wore out. lol








This is the bee yard right now. It's been hard for me to come up with something simple to get them wrapped up for the winter with the hives being all different sizes.
Especially knowing i will have to be keeping them fed with sugar blocks. Also some are facing opposite directions because of drifting and never got around to turning them.








The plan is to put the feed shim with wind baffle, then quilt box, foam insulation and then lid or other board on top of that (shown below)


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Keeping the robbing screens on has also been problematic with reducing the entrance, which i never did all summer. I made some reducers and had to open the top of the reducer as well so they had enough room to get out. Still doesn't address the mice issue...


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

I feel bad for not getting this stuff done by now. Big bucks have been my passion for a very long time and everything else has backed up on me.
The plan for tomorrow is to get a roll of tar paper, and in a couple days (better weather) slide the hives apart a little more and wrap them individually after putting the sugar blocks, shims and quilts on.

Hopefully i can get feedback if needed about all this. I made the mistake of splitting too much in my first year and now have hives that are light on stores so i will need to be keeping an eye on their blocks from here out...
Thanks in advance for any advice.

Chris


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

A neighbor worked at a place that used "Cargo Quilts" for their freight on pallets. Not sure what they were for but are designed to be used as a refrigerated freight alternative for shipping.
I layed one out in the weather for a while and it soaked up rain and felt heavier so i was bummed about that. Not sure if i could still use these in some way. The plan was to figure out a way to wrap the hives with it. If they hadn't absorbed moisture i would have figured something out. Maybe some way else to use these?


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Forgot to post this above. Added the insulation inside the bottom board thinking this would help......


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## PerryBee (Dec 3, 2007)

5 over 5 frame D.Coates nucs. 1 inch feeder shim for fondant, with upper entrance notch .
Placed 6 to a pallet, 3 each way back to back, 1" cheap styrofoam on the sides and 1 sheet across the top, exposed fronts left as is with black stretch wrap.
Had *really* good luck last winter, 29 of 30 made it, see if I get lucky twice in a row.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

PerryBee said:


> 5 over 5 frame D.Coates nucs. 1 inch feeder shim for fondant, with upper entrance notch .
> Placed 6 to a pallet, 3 each way back to back, 1" cheap styrofoam on the sides and 1 sheet across the top, exposed fronts left as is with black stretch wrap.
> Had *really* good luck last winter, 29 of 30 made it, see if I get lucky twice in a row.


Wow, than you very much for posting. Very inspiring to see your success. Hope you do as well this year.
I assume you used resources from the nucs for others to keep them all two high....
Did you have any problems with robbing or drifting? Or were they set up differently during the summer?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I've never had any problems overwintering double deep nucs and they are all made out of 19/32 ply. They've made it through even the harshest winters. My worst problems with them have been from high winds knocking them over when they start getting light late winter.


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## PerryBee (Dec 3, 2007)

cbay said:


> Wow, than you very much for posting. Very inspiring to see your success. Hope you do as well this year.
> I assume you used resources from the nucs for others to keep them all two high....
> Did you have any problems with robbing or drifting? Or were they set up differently during the summer?


I wait until May and then pull the center 2 nucs from each pallet and move them to another yard onto their own pallet, so each pallet has only 4 nucs on it which cuts way down on drift.









I usually wait till they are really solid, then I pull the queen and 4 frames and sell as a nuc, introducing a queen cell or local queen if available to the remaining bees and brood the next day. I wait 2 or 3 weeks and do it all over again (sell a second nuc), introduce a queen or cell, and then leave them alone to build up for fall.


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