# Can we prevent the "Bees Ripped Off", nightmares?



## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

This probably should start another thread, but I post here.

Probably will ruffle a few feathers.

And yes it is important to me, I have been thru this before.


Welcome to the realities of CA pollination, stuff happens. I do not take this as a causual remark, but a look at the reality of pollination in Feb. of each year. IT IS TOUGH and takes more work and knowledge than just owning a bee hive.

Please refer to all past threads on CA almond pollination and artcles in ABF by Randy Oliver "California Dreaming"

I, inaddition to my own 2000 hives also manage 1400 for beeks that are sick & tired of coming to ca for the winter. I have had good bees & bad bees, They all looked good when they left.

Most beeks have had bees fall apart, I have seen hives that made 160lbs of honey in april & May in ca only to be dead 45 days later, we have large & small operator in ca that continue to have losses that they can't explain.

Most good bees got rented this year, many friend were long on hives at start of pollination from 1,000 to a few hundred, all rented back filling hives that did not pass inspection, ( they looked good 2 weeks before delivery).

This is the reality of CA pollination

I hope this situation will get resolved equitably.


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

Well I can think of some solutions, SEALS and other methods, such as better Inspection protocols, monitoring, we probably are looking at getting more options to use independent inspectors that have certifications and like standard operating procedures. I still think the industry needs to move to a 3 or 4 tier payment per frame system, for example under 3 = $0.00 per frame, 4-6 = $10 per frame, perhaps 7-8= $15 per frame, 9-10 = $18 per frame etc. Some sort of quality and graduated scale of payment system, but yet preserving freedom of contract. A Detailed investigation and post mortem could shed light on how to proceed.


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

*Last post on subject by me*

This will be my last post on this subject.

1.Let the free market take care of the system. Why do some always want rules.
IMO any rules suggeted (if any)need to be followed with the number of qualied hives that a person places into almond pollination, and only listen to the beeks that place 1,000 or more, or in short people with years of experiance.

2. Nothing was ever stolen, yes, expectation were not meet, but nothing stolen. Please refer to all articles on CA pollination and the reality of. This is a classic case of CA dreaming on all sides.

3. CA almond pollination, bees to pollinate on Feb. 5th each year is totaly different than growing a hive in April & May for summer honey. Its tough and expensive with inputs & labor.

4. The list of examples of problems beeks have had is to long, so I will give just one that happened this year in the Fresno area, no names will be used. Beek short 1000 hives for contract, calls friend (2)(Also beek) ask if he has extra hives to fill contract, he answers yes, I just inpected a semi load (512) 5 days ago they have a 7 to 8 frame ave. for strength. Delivered 2 days later, Beek (1) goes to inspect and finds a 3 frame ave., they will not meet grade for pollination. Beek (2) appologises greatly for the bad bees, they had just inspected them 8 days ago and they were good ( And they were good at inpection) Now the beek(2) has to gather up all bee and take them out and beek (1) has to still find additional hives to fill contract. This is just one small example of what can happen, beek2 did not get paid and had done a lot of work moving these hives around.

5. Thats all I have, I will not spend any more time on this


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

I usually agree with less rules and regulations, at least the mandated kind, that does not mean that "smart" people or at least "smarter" people shouldn't contract to get these private rules of thumb put into a contract.

I am wondering if you only saw the bees how do you know the rest of your assertions, it is not some of the stuff being discussed, so you seem to be the only source for the assertions that others dispute. Maybe that was the status quo when you last saw those, whenever that was. 

I've done bees for years and have degrees in biology to boot, as far as experience, if people have years of experience of doing things wrong, it is hard to teach ol dawgs new tricks to be sure, but I would not consider inspecting at 8 frames and ending up with 3 frames any indication of anyone doing anything right no matter how experienced they are.

I think it is high time this industry start doing things differently. I look around and most of the commercial beeks still do things the way they were done 150 years ago. Things have changed drasitically as evidence by lots of these unfortunate events all around for both sides, or all 4 or 5 sides involved in the whole operation from the beek to trucker to broker to holding yarder to any feeders and servicers to the orchard owners and back again. 

Sure every contract is unique, but STANDARDS is what it is all about and I can tell you this, the drought and water problems out in California are legendary, and show how outmoded the entire system is, the entire infrastructure, and our own industry's lack of political influence to make it better for all of us, and thus the orchards, and thus the consumers who eat both honey and all the fruits of our labor. If anyone else has anything to add they can email me at [email protected] anytime, I do not intend to stick my head in the sand for a problem that does not seem to go away, although some here are hoping it will. Why?


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## K&L HONEY (Mar 21, 2008)

look around and most of the commercial beeks still do things the way they were done 150 years ago


I dont know any one who is doing things the same way they were 5-10 years ago. I change things every year. The bees may be doing what they were doing 150 years ago not many beekeepers.

I do not intend to stick my head in the sand for a problem that does not seem to go away


The problem will always exist as long as there are beeks who send there bees to CA. Thinking they will get rich and place them in someone elses care who they may not even know. Nobody takes care of your bees like you do. There are some very good brokers out there but there are some oppurtunist right in the bunch.


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

I have bees all over America,and from all over America and have visited, toured, worked with, and continue to do so wih commerical beekeepers, suppliers, and even the occasional sideliner and hobbysts, in the East, in the Southeast, in the South, in Georgia, Florida, OK, Texas, AZ, and California, the Midwest, the Rocky Mts and Plain States, and even Hawaii and Europe and Mexico and Canada. You would be surprised then that about 95% of them are doing what I would call doing it the same way beekeeping was done 150 years ago, very few do anything modern at all except maybe the occasional medication or miticide if only that. 

Very few are doing things like warehousing, full RX spectrums on schedules, rotations, different equipment devices such as 4.9mm comb to screened bottom boards to various feeders and feeds, to palletizing and trucking innovations etc etc etc, and because they do not we all get their problems at least through DCA or what i call Drone pollution, or from wayward bees adopted by our hives from the neighborhood after they come back from that great California Commingling Disease CCD colony collapse disorder adventure or misadventure.

I agree no one takes care of your bees like you do, but when you have thousands of bees you have to delegate as in any business, or hire lots of part time employees, or both. I agree the delegations appears to be where a lot of these problems start, and to be fair, it usually is on both ends not just one or the other but everyone inbetween, only the bees are probably innocent. They are like the radio show about health: Your Body Has Never Made a Mistake In Your Lifetime. That is, sometimes even dying is what your body or any creatures body is supposed to do. It is not the body of the organism that makes the mistakes, it is us humans, and lucky enough, some of us are divine enough to forgive, when merited.

I agree there are some very good brokers and some opportunists in the bunch, or maybe even worse. We need to try and remain a self regulated industry, on that I agree, if you knew my politics you would know I am the farthest person from Socialism probably left in this Country, but self regulation means accountability, that we do self regulate ourselves. If we do not, then we will become regulated whether we like it or not and some states already are over regulated and currently do have less bees historically than those that don't or that have helpful agencies, such as in Wisconsin that gets you your inspection certificates so that you can cross right over into California , and then there is Florida, kind of heavy, and then Louisiana and California to say nothing of provinces in Canada. 

That is why issues like this one are important to all of us. What, How, When, Why, and then the Who.


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