# How to do Oxalic Acid trickle method



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/oxalic/oxalic-0-nf.htm


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## forestbee (Sep 11, 2003)

I do Oxalic Acid trickle in late falls, I dont know how effective will it be in the spring since it will not kill the mites in the capped cells.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

IMO trickling in early spring is almost useless. Bees starting with brood and more than 95% of the mites are in closed cells. If you tread the hive with liquid acid 3 to 4 times to reach the hatching mites, it would kill your bees. To make sure that the new colony has a good start, I would evaporate OA 3 times a week apart. Control the mite drop with a sticky board. I never use icy sugar because its only drop the Varroa, OA kill the Varroa.

As I said before, last year I used one Thymol strip in mid April with good success. This kills hatching Varroa mites over at least 3-4 weeks and Tracheal mites also and no problem with bees, brood or queen. This early Varroa treatment holds the mite level down for a long time. The mites are behind there normal development at least for 2 month.


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## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

inga;check this site. 


http://www.honeycouncil.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5204

Terry


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Inga Anderson,

Contact the Canadian Honey Councel, they will have everything you are asking for.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Axtmann.......... Were your thymol strips made
at home or commercially produced???

Are these the ones???

http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/Thymol.htm


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## inga (Feb 21, 2007)

*Thanks loads!*

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice and the links.

Since OA trickling is supposed to be done "late in the season" and vaporization requires special equipment which we won't be needing once our bees are regressed, I've given up on the idea.

In our local Beekeeper Association a bee inspector from a neighboring district recommended Formic Acid strips. The beekeeper from whom we're getting our two hives (or more) says he'll never use formic acid because he knows of a beekeeper who "burned out his lungs." (He's using Apistan which we won't use.)

That appears to leave Thymomite strips (easy and hopefully safe), and they are available in Canada!! 

(Thanks for the URL: http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/Thymol.htm)


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## inga (Feb 21, 2007)

*Oh, no!!*

I just phoned the number given at http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/Thymol.htm and spoke to Mr. Kaemmerer, a very nice German man ...

However, since Thymol is not approved for use in Canada, he can't sell it to me!!! 

So I'm back to Square 1, so to speak ...


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## forestbee (Sep 11, 2003)

I use oxalic acid trickle only in the fall with great results I have SBB on all my hives and I think this contributed to that result. 


I assumed that there are no tracheal mites in our area, but now I am getting some information that we have it this is the main reason why I will start to use formic acid in the spring, also I am interested in knowing if treating in the spring will effect my production, also many more experienced beekeepers told me that treating only in late fall may not be a good idea since most of the damage will be already done by the mites to the bees whom will take the hive over the winter and this will increase the winter mortality so I need to do another formic acid treatment late summer, but then if this what I will do in the future so I don’t see any benefits from using oxalic acid at all.

If you are worry about handling formic acid try www.miteaway.com I used it few years ago when I had three hives but with 80 hives is getting costly plus the extra equipment I need to keep, my self I am going with formic acid the flash treatment mentioned at http://www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/articles/flash.en.html and http://www.pmra-arla.gc.ca/english/pdf/reg/reg_c9405-e.pdf

Good luck
Mahmoud


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

*OA*

I jumped on board the OA train with some DAP wood bleach from the local True Value. The products website MSDS states its 100% OA. I found a small cheap, 1 gallon sprayer to use with it. I didnt do a drop count but I did clean the SBB of all dead bees before treatment. It was 42 F here and when I popped the hives the bees were loosely clustered. I did 2 of my 3 hives . I used the 50GM OA, per 1 liter, per 1kg of sugar mix. Looks like I will get about 10 treatments from this one small 7$ jar


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Spunky:

I would get an even cheaper 60 ml syringe next time, that way you can spray precisely 5 ml per bee space to a maximum of 50 ml per beehive. You should be able to get at a local tack shop or perhaps a veterinary for under $3.00. You really do not want to overspray the bees.

Jean-Marc


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Spunky:
> 
> I would get an even cheaper 60 ml syringe next time, that way you can spray precisely 5 ml per bee space to a maximum of 50 ml per beehive. You should be able to get at a local tack shop or perhaps a veterinary for under $3.00. You really do not want to overspray the bees.
> 
> Jean-Marc


 Thanks for the info Jean marc. I tested the small sprayer first, by spraying into an oven pan and counting to 3 , then measuring the liquid. .


Errr so does OA, actually kill the mites, irriate them so they fall off , or cause hygenic behavior ????

It was so much easier, quicker than sugar dusting and I bet way more effective


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## aidah (May 29, 2007)

*questions*

I just read your post on spraying with OA. What is it. I'm interested in how it work for mite control. Do you spray the frames with the bees on them or just the top of the frames, Is it caustic? Does it work?


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

If you refill inkjet cartridges, the old syringes from the refill packs are ideal and cost nothing. If you're spraying, I think you have to do the faces of the combs, but trickling 5ml per seam with an old syringe disturbs the bees far less, and won't chill them anything like so much.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Spunky:

The oxalic acid kills the mites. Very effective. In colonies that are broodless 95-96% of varroa are killed.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Errr so does OA, actually kill the mites, irriate them so they fall off , or cause hygenic behavior ????

OA drizzle is only effective with a sugar surip meduim, the thicker the surip, the better it worked. It got some guys beleiving that perhaps the OA was working systemically as the bees ingested the sugar surip solution. After a studdy done up here, they proved that the OA drizzle method relyed on the sugar surip to stick to the bees, and allow a complete distribution of the treatment throughout the hive.
It seems as if the OA treatment adversly effects the mite, killing it, showing no harm to the bees themselves. The treatment dosent promote hygenic behaviour, it acts as a contact treatment.


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## RicDuck (Sep 9, 2005)

*75 grams per liter or 35grams per liter?*

Swiss link listed above uses 75 grams/liter while Canadian links uses 35 grams/liter. Why difference and what is correct?


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## ian m davison (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi Inga

For your Oxalic try this, used it for years and it works!

1 litre of water with 1kg sugar 
Add 75g Oxalic acid di-hydrate(which contains 71.4% oxalic) 
Resulting solution 3.2% 
Should be enough for aprox 25 hives.

For other treatment types and advice on Oxalic inc safety tips try this, It's a big file but worth it.

If you can't buy a Thymol treatment, can you just get the crystals.

600g caster sugar
300 vegtable purra(veg lard)
100g Thymol crystals.

Mix together with the lard still warm/hot and place into the fridge to set
Apply paste on a for 100 mm diameter tray about 5mm thick and half for nucs placed on top bars, apply twice over about 4-6 weeks. Check drops if you wish and you can always treat again. DON'T FORGET IF YOU HAVE MESH FLOORS, CLOSE THEM UP FOR ANY THYMOL GEL TYPE TREATMENT AS A LOT DEPENDS ON VAPOURS STAYING IN THE HIVE.

Give it a go on a couple and see how you go


Regards Ian


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>If you can't buy a Thymol treatment, can you just get the crystals.

600g caster sugar
300 vegtable purra(veg lard)
100g Thymol crystals.


Where would a fellow find Thymol crystals?
Ian,
What sort of side effects does the Thymol have on the hive? How temperature dependant is it, and can it harm the hive if conditions arnt right?
What kind of effectivness does it have on the the mite kill after the two treatments in 8 weeks?

Thanks.


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## ian m davison (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi Ian (this could get confusing)

In the U.K most of our suppliers carry the crystals and they do mail, we are paying about £30.00 or a little under for a Kg or about 2.2lb. I am certain you could find it cheaper!!

As to using the mix simply use and follow the guides for Api Gaurd they are very similar!!!!

http://www.vita-europe.com/

As to side effects there are very few, Api Gaurd has been known to knock queens out of lay and drive bees out the hive, but that mix is only 10% thymol Api Gaurd is 20-25%. Thymol effectiveness can vary but we are backing up any treatment type with Oxalic in the Winter, Resistance can not accur to these products and it works for us. Give it a go on a couple and see what you think.

Regards Ian


Regards Ian


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

*thymol recipe*

Ian M davison:

In the recipe that you gave us, how many hives would you be able to treat? What is caster sugar?

Jean-Marc


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian M davison:

Do you need entrance reducers on for this treatment?


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

spunky said:


> I jumped on board the OA train with some DAP wood bleach from the local True Value. The products website MSDS states its 100% OA. I found a small cheap, 1 gallon sprayer to use with it. I didnt do a drop count but I did clean the SBB of all dead bees before treatment. It was 42 F here and when I popped the hives the bees were loosely clustered. I did 2 of my 3 hives . I used the 50GM OA, per 1 liter, per 1kg of sugar mix. Looks like I will get about 10 treatments from this one small 7$ jar



I went with round 2 yesterday. I upped the dosage to 60GM and made the syrup thicker, but same overall volume. Seems my hives tolerated the first treatment well


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

*Spunky*

I hate to be the guy to tell you this but somebody has to. Oxalic acid drizzles is a one time treatment to be used in the late fall/winter when the bees are broodless. Now if they are not broodless you want them near as broodless as possible. This treatment is real effectice at killing phoretic mites, but a second treatment is not necessary. Actually it is very hard on the bees. Colonies will be very small or dead in the spring. It's probably not what you had in mind when you did the second treatment but that's what will happen.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>As to side effects there are very few, Api Gaurd has been known to knock queens out of lay and drive bees out the hive, but that mix is only 10% thymol Api Gaurd is 20-25%.

Is the 10% mixture effective?
Under what conditions will this treatment of 20-25% drive bees out of the hive and stop queens laying? You said drive the bees out, can you elaberate on that.

Thanks Ian


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ian:

Thymol, much like menthol can drive bees out if entrance reducers are on and ambient temperatures are high. Mid to upper 30's should do the trick in Celcius that is. In the 90s Fee that effect.

Jean-Marc


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> I hate to be the guy to tell you this but somebody has to. Oxalic acid drizzles is a one time treatment to be used in the late fall/winter when the bees are broodless. Now if they are not broodless you want them near as broodless as possible. This treatment is real effectice at killing phoretic mites, but a second treatment is not necessary. Actually it is very hard on the bees. Colonies will be very small or dead in the spring. It's probably not what you had in mind when you did the second treatment but that's what will happen.
> 
> Jean-Marc


 No, that would be a real bummer, as my other hive I didnt treat ( control group ) starved in the lower hive body. I was really suprised Jean Marc, how well they tolerated the first treatment, as I had practically no dead bees on the bottom board. I am a little more worried about the single digit temps that might settle in for the night lows for the next 10 days

We will see, my hives are wrapped and I have sugar above the clusters.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>much like menthol can drive bees out if entrance reducers are on and ambient temperatures are high. Mid to upper 30's 

Does it kill off brood like the menthol does?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ian: Thymol can kill alittle bit of brood, but so does varroa. 

Spunky: The bees handle oxalic drizzle just fine. It's that second treatment that they don't handle very well. Some European countires (Swiss , Germans , and I think the Italians)have tried different application methods. Basically they've done all the experimenting and the bottom line is bees do not handle a second treatment very well. If they survive they will be weak in the spring. Hopefully they are alive come spring.

Jean-Marc


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> I hate to be the guy to tell you this but somebody has to. Oxalic acid drizzles is a one time treatment to be used in the late fall/winter when the bees are broodless. Now if they are not broodless you want them near as broodless as possible. This treatment is real effectice at killing phoretic mites, but a second treatment is not necessary. Actually it is very hard on the bees. Colonies will be very small or dead in the spring. It's probably not what you had in mind when you did the second treatment but that's what will happen.
> 
> Jean-Marc


 
Well , I lost my split; they were only 1/2 of 3 frames on a medium, my other hive though is doing great.


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## ian m davison (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi all

Sorry fell of the radar for a while, as to the previous questions. The mix will treat about 12 hives and is applied in a couple of doses, I use 4" round take away carton lids about 5mm thick. When the first dose is nearly cleared add the second.

As with all thymol treatments mesh floors are best closed.
Caster sugar is a fine grain sugar half way between normal grain and powdered.

As to how well it works it's more a case of trying for yourself in your location and monitoring drops, no need to do that on all hives but 1-2 will give a guide.

Thymol can cause brood deaths and the Queen to drop out of lay, but I have had few problems with the mix above.

Api Gaurd/Thymol is best used with mesh floors closed but given high doses or high temps it can cause the bees to abscond. With small hives or nucs it is best to reduce the dose, you can always add a third dose if needed rather than stand a chance of them going out the door.

It is a good treatment both Spring and Autumn but I always back up with Oxalic in Winter. Jean Mark is spot on with the warnings about a second application with higher doses or second treatments results show higher bee deaths and a slower Spring build up. Used within guides there are little side effects.

Regards Ian


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