# Splitting/Equalizing 6 weeks before the flow



## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

If you are splitting and equalizing 6 weeks before the main flow, what size are you targeting in frames of bees and/or brood?

Recent articles in the ABJ have discussed this. One article says that a colony with four frames of brood at any age will grow into a good sized honey producing unit. 
RO's latest article has 20 frames of bees being the target size at the beginning of the flow. Based on his chart, you would need 8 frames of bees at 6 weeks.

I am curious to know what size you make your splits(assume mated queen) or equalize to with the goal being overall production and reduced swarming.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Depends on a lot of factors. Do you have drawn comb for the rest of the frames? If so four frames of wall to wall capped brood would probably be close to a good production colony in 6 weeks. Keep in mind that what you would call a good looking hive really isn't enough to make those huge honey yields; takes some pretty extreme populations to do that, as in you shouldn't be able to fit them in two boxes and that takes some serious brood rearing at full production. Just my two cents


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Markt said:


> Depends on a lot of factors. Do you have drawn comb for the rest of the frames? If so four frames of wall to wall capped brood would probably be close to a good production colony in 6 weeks. Keep in mind that what you would call a good looking hive really isn't enough to make those huge honey yields; takes some pretty extreme populations to do that, as in you shouldn't be able to fit them in two boxes and that takes some serious brood rearing at full production. Just my two cents


I had assumed drawn comb. My thought was that you don't want them so strong at the start of the flow that half of them swarm. You might not get that 200lb harvest from some colonies, but average out better overall.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

zhiv9 said:


> My thought was that you don't want them so strong at the start of the flow that half of them swarm.


The bigger the hive, the larger the _percentage_ of foragers. Meaning big hives can pull in huge honey corps. Accordingly, you do indeed want the hive so large it would swarm . . . which you then suppress with swarm prevention methods.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

shinbone said:


> The bigger the hive, the larger the _percentage_ of foragers. Meaning big hives can pull in huge honey corps. Accordingly, you do indeed want the hive so large it would swarm . . . which you then suppress with swarm prevention methods.


Most "swarm prevention methods" are either two labour intensive, ineffective or weaken the colony anyways. They really become impractical at a certain size. It makes sense to me setup colonies at a strength so at they are a good size at the start of the flow but are still growing.

I was surprised at the discrepancy between the two size recommendations at six weeks and was curious to know what size other larger scale beekeepers make their splits at around six weeks for comparison.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

You won't typically get as much honey from a split as a big production colony... For a hive to make 200 lbs in our climate for instance that third box on top should be wall to wall with bees. You may make more honey total by splitting colonies than you would by not but you won't have near the average yield per hive. Everything you do with a beehive has a cost associated with it. If you want to make a big average per hive you're probably going to lose some swarms, it's the risk you take to maintain those populations. That's my two cents at least


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

What time of year are you considering the start of the flow?


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

We try and have them at 5 frames, and hope for nice weather. If we hit a week of rain just before the flow, it's 12 hr days cutting cells.:ws:


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Markt said:


> What time of year are you considering the start of the flow?


Around first cut. Usually the last week of June with some season variation.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah, they will grow significantly faster in those temps as well


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Markt said:


> You won't typically get as much honey from a split as a big production colony... For a hive to make 200 lbs in our climate for instance that third box on top should be wall to wall with bees. You may make more honey total by splitting colonies than you would by not but you won't have near the average yield per hive. Everything you do with a beehive has a cost associated with it. If you want to make a big average per hive you're probably going to lose some swarms, it's the risk you take to maintain those populations. That's my two cents at least


I don't disagree. Last year I tried to manage them to max strength. My best colonies produced 150-200lbs, but the ones that swarmed produced very little. I think I had around 25% that swarmed at one point or another. That's too high and I would like to be more proactive this year.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Markt said:


> You won't typically get as much honey from a split as a big production colony... For a hive to make 200 lbs in our climate for instance that third box on top should be wall to wall with bees. You may make more honey total by splitting colonies than you would by not but you won't have near the average yield per hive. Everything you do with a beehive has a cost associated with it. If you want to make a big average per hive you're probably going to lose some swarms, it's the risk you take to maintain those populations. That's my two cents at least


I don't disagree. Last year I tried to manage them to max strength. My best colonies produced 150-200lbs, but the ones that swarmed produced very little. I think I had around 25% that swarmed at one point or another. That's too high and I would like to be more proactive this year.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

We target 4 frames of brood which usually is 6-8 frames of bees around the May Long weekend. Supers start mid to end of June. 
Like you said, hives bigger than that will bring more early honey but hives that swarm bring in nothing. 
I target the hive growth to peak mid July. I say "I" target like I have anything to do with it , but in a way I do by manipulating them properly in May and June to keep the hive from swarming. Some years I get it right and have no swarming, other years I miss the bag... But all in all if I can hold off the swarming the bees do the rest with cooperation from the graces of mother nature


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Ian said:


> We target 4 frames of brood which usually is 6-8 frames of bees around the May Long weekend. Supers start mid to end of June.
> Like you said, hives bigger than that will bring more early honey but hives that swarm bring in nothing.
> I target the hive growth to peak mid July. I say "I" target like I have anything to do with it , but in a way I do by manipulating them properly in May and June to keep the hive from swarming. Some years I get it right and have no swarming, other years I miss the bag... But all in all if I can hold off the swarming the bees do the rest with cooperation from the graces of mother nature


Thanks. This is what I am trying to do. Last year I had a mix of singles and doubles and too much variability. This season I want to setup each yard with singles of roughly the same size to improve efficiency. Time is the resource I have the least of at this point.


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