# Which size hives are most productive?



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Double nuc tops the list, single brood honey management, take it all


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

It takes lots of bees to make lots of honey. this is why 2 queen systems were developed. If a 5 frame nuc appears to make lots of honey its because its all brood. they would starve in short order. all surplus appears as surplus and the required honey needed for winter is not considered. we used to take bees to fla in 1 10 frame deep. was all brood and the bees made lots of orange honey. lots of feeding is required for this method. fatman is missing a few details.


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Too many parameters to really say this is better then the other. We've not had much winter rains in Central Texas. Meaning that our spring flowers if we continue this route will be slim and not very promising to the bees. Last summer we had little to no rainfall from mid June to the end of October.
Year to year is going to produce different results. Strong hive with a great queen VS a lazy queen with age different results.


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## B52EW (Jun 3, 2013)

I agree there are too many parameters. I have both 8 and 10 frame hives...my personal experience is that often the outside frames on the 10 configuration aren't fully used. Based on that and the weight of honey supers, my preference is the 8 frame.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I guess your question is what width of box? The size of the hive is simply a matter or more boxes or less boxes depending on the needs of the colony at the time. The width may make some difference, but people have been successfully raising bees in every width imaginable so it doesn't make THAT much difference. All in all I find eight frame mediums to be the most useful for me and I think a happy medium that doesn't blow over in the wind and fits the cluster better in the winter.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

All things equal the bigger the hive the more productive it is. (more brood, more bees more honey) There is a critical mass where the hive needs to be, to be a power house. I don't think a 5 frame nuc is anywhere close. A 20 frame hive is a good honey maker. I have seen 10 frame hives fill a super, where as a 20 or 30 frame hive may fill 5 or 6 supers. 

Sometimes when drawing comb the bees would rather work up than sideways and will leave 1 and 10 positions alone, they may also leave 2 and 8 alone too. Just work the empties into the brood nest and move honey frames out. Once the frames are drawn they seem work them better. Kind a the same thing when you put a new box on, you need to move a few frames up to encourage them to work in the new box.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You gotta look at more than just lots of bees. Hive configuration is key. Building that large workforce requires walking in that line where slightly too big will swarm and leave you with less... Risking death.
So the question is how is the best way to manage explosive growth while keeping under the swarm radar.?
My strategy is by managing size, moving the queen, and exploiting natural behaviour to our advantage. In the eye of honey production, a smaller brood nest (but not less brood) is the objective.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I always thought a larger hive would have more bees and thus more foragers, and, additionally, a larger hive would have a larger percentage of its bees working as foragers. Meaning, larger hives can produce far more honey than smaller hives.

_Getting to that large size is another question._ But, if the question is "which size hive produces more honey," then the answer is the larger hive produces more honey.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

If stating the obvious is the answer, then I agree. But getting to that obvious answer is the trick. Big nest does not equal big honey crop.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

This is really an interesting question because of the implications underlying it. Which is the most productive of bees? Which produces the most honey? Which is most cost efficient? From past experience, any hive can produce a ton of bees if there is enough space for the queen to lay. The most I've ever seen a single queen lay was 18 Langstroth deep frames of brood where 4 of the frames were about 25 percent brood and 14 frames were 80 percent brood. With this in mind, here is a thought experiment.

Migratory cover and bottom board cost are close to the same no matter what hive you decide to use. I can get them for about $27.00 no matter what hive configuration I use. Here are the costs per hive body from the Mann Lake catalog or for the square deep Dadant, priced from Albert Zook for the box, I make the frames, foundation from Dadant.

$25.60 per Medium 10 frame cost with box
$22.48 per Medium 8 frame box
$34.55 per Deep 10 frame
$30.49 per Deep 8 frame
$48.62 per Deep Square Dadant


As you can see, there is quite a bit of difference in fully set up per box cost and you might even conclude that 8 frame equipment is far and away cheapest. But the details are when you start putting together a complete hive. I am adding $27 to each complete hive for cover and bottom.

$116.92 - 4 Medium 8 frame
$103.80 - 3 Medium 10 frame
$96.10 - 2 Deep 10 frame
$87.98 - 2 Deep 8 frame
$87.15 - 1 Deep 10 frame and 1 Medium 10 frame
$79.97 - 1 Deep 8 frame and 1 Medium 8 frame (can argue this is not enough brood space)
$75.62 - 1 Dadant Square Deep with 14 frames (enough brood space to run as 2 queen with a divider)

Now we can compare apples to apples. We have 7 different hive configurations that give enough room for the queen to lay. Which configuration is the most cost efficient? It turns out that Mediums whether 8 frame or 10 frame are very inefficient and will cost a lot more to set up a given size colony.

There are other factors to consider. With 4 medium 8 frame boxes, there are 8 outside combs which the queen will rarely lay in so off the bat, you just lost 1/4 of the total comb capacity for egg laying. With 2 Langstroth deeps, 4 combs are lost from being on the outside of the cluster. With the Dadant Square Deep, only 2 combs are lost, granted that they are bigger combs, they are roughly the equivalent of 1.25 Langstroth deep frames. Now consider another factor. Queens don't like to lay in corners which means most corners wind up as wasted space. With 4 medium 8 frames boxes, you lose 8 outside combs plus you lose 96 corners on the remaining 24 frames. With two Langstroth deeps, 4 outside combs plus 64 corners are lost. With 1 Dadant square deep, 2 outside combs and 48 corners are lost.

I know that Dadant Square Deeps are too heavy for most beekeepers, but the efficiency they gain is clearly evident. The next most cost effective configuration is 1 deep and 1 medium in 8 frame size though this configuration can run into problems with a prolific queen.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Certainly making honey is important. Top of the list for many. But to be self sufficient and being somewhat diversified is also a consideration. I consider over wintering ability, seasonal production of possibly several products from the hive and versatility of several colonies sizes.

My triple deeps overwinter beautifully with the least amount of labor and cost for me. They produce an early crop of Maple honey, produce at least one nuc to sell to help cover my costs and/or some shaken bees to restock mating nucs. My bees are mostly Carniolan hybrids and can overwinter in large populations with little consumption of feed. They are not prone to swarming. These photos are from yesterday in Washington State. Just started putting on protein patties yesterday. Feeders you see are empty and have been in there overwinter ready for use if needed.




























Well fall prepped 10 or 8 frame double deeps come out of winter in great shape and with drawn frames to super will be very productive without much if any deliberate swarming management. 














































Single over wintered deeps do well but may take more labor in late summer fall to be sure they have feed stores in the center where the cluster will reside. I also give my singles sugar blocks directly above the colony since they don't have feed to move up to. Those blocks take time to make & distribute. In spring they need to be tended in a timely manor to assure they have what they need for growth. A feeder with syrup when temps are warm enough, some protein and drawn frames to move up to and they can look amazing in 30 days. They won't be productive for the maple flow, but by the main flow can be in great shape if managed well in late winter. These are my larger mating nucs I let the last round of queens stay late summer to build and over winter late.










Last of the sugar block, new protein glob to get them to brood up well late winter to stimulate growth and replace those old winter bees. I am about 2-3 weeks away from natural pollen availability.



















I use these over wintered singles to make up a sale nucs with the over wintered queen and use what's left l for early mating nucs. I could have combined these to go into winter with all doubles, but I get a lot more queens early spring to work with this way. They do take fall tending but I think it is worth it.

Double nucs also winter well and are amazing in spring. I've gotten away from using 5 frame nucs though. They grow so fast I am constantly moving them into larger equipment. I just put them in 8 frame deeps right from the start when I can. This is a fall photo. They come out of winter just about the same shape and full of brood. Neglect or over look them and you might be sorry.
When I was buying equipment, 8 frame deeps were actually cheaper than 5 frame nuc box's. I could buy 8 frame equipment in bulk-nuc box's were not available in bulk. Not the reason I switched to 8 frame deeps but that fact made it a no brainer.


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## whitebark (Jul 14, 2004)

Ian said:


> Double nuc tops the list, single brood honey management, take it all


Ian do you mean you run singles up in Manitoba? Do you boost these in the fall to overwinter doubles? Part of the issue isn't just what gets you the most honey but what survives the winter.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

whitebark said:


> Ian do you mean you run singles up in Manitoba? Do you boost these in the fall to overwinter doubles? Part of the issue isn't just what gets you the most honey but what survives the winter.


Yes I winter in singles and 5 frame nucs, indoors. But my neighbour does the same wintering outdoors.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Lauri , would you consider a feeding program part of sustainable management ? Having the hives self sufficient is great but completely limits our ability to exploit their production potential.


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## whitebark (Jul 14, 2004)

Ian said:


> Yes I winter in singles and 5 frame nucs, indoors. But my neighbour does the same wintering outdoors.


Nice! And in Manitoba no-less. I think there is something to this but am reluctant to take the leap as old-timers are always pushing doubles.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

last summer was one of my best in 50 yrs with many hives making over 200 lbs. can you imagine the logistics of a 5 frame nuc making that kind if crop? would be the tallest nuc I've ever seen. as I keep saying lots of bees make lots of honey. these hives were wintered in sc and housed in 2 med boxes. they started out real strong and we had very few rain days. most had to be fed 2 gal after arriving in sc this winter.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

No beeware10, not a nuc, a double nuc (2 queen hive) and they easy produce 200 lbs. average , smaller nests, more bees , more honey than two stand alone nucs

(Most of the honey yield equation is the amount of forage and quality of forage available)


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> most had to be fed 2 gal after arriving in sc this winter.


And therein lies the rub with most beekeeping systems that rely on the equivalent of a single deep Langstroth hive. One way or another, you wind up having to feed the bees. Considering the beekeeper's time, the premature aging of the bees converting syrup, the stress on the colony, and the cost of the feed, I find it far better to leave 45 pounds of fall honey on the bees. I may have to change my mind on this after a few years using the square Dadant depth hives as 2 queen units over winter.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

You have to define "productive" first. The majority of these posts assume honey production, but if your focus is wax or bee production, the answer changes. There have been some comments related to cost. Hard equipment costs or management costs impact the net profit, but don't define "productive".

Clearly a provocative question, but clarification would provide a more usable answer.

Of course, if beekeeping could be reduced to a standard formula it wouldn't be as much fun. There are many variables from day to day, year to year, location to location....


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

@Fusion Power:

You wrote:


> the premature aging of the bees converting syrup,


Could you discuss that a bit more? How is sugar more costly to the bees?

Also your discussion of actual costs above was very useful and interesting.

Enj.


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## BeeAttitudes (Dec 6, 2014)

For honey production, I would agree that a large population works best......more and a higher percentage of foragers boosts production. It seems some want to confuse the topic by adding in weather conditions. Of course they have a large impact.......but the weather will be the same irregardless of the size/shape hive that's chosen so seems mostly irrelevant unless someone can prove a particular shape has advantages in certain types of weather.

Deeps have the advantage of less frames for a given number of cells and the disadvantage of being heavier. Fewer frames means it's quicker to check hives (fewer frames to pull) and more space in each frame for laying.

My minimum for the brood area is either a 10-frame deep + a 10-frame medium -or- a double deep 8-frame. Much less space than this and you can impact the queen laying in peak production (and my theory is population is important to honey production). I have 10-frame double deeps, 10-frame deep/mediums, and a couple of 8-frame double deeps. I'm gravitating toward the 8-frame double deeps for the brood area as it is lighter and when carrying the boxes the center of gravity is closer to you so easier to move. 

As mentioned earlier, the outside frames on 10-frame equipment aren't utilized as much as the interior frames. In the supers, a lot (maybe most) folks only place 9 frames and space them out so each frame can be drawn out to hold more honey. There is usually extra space per frame in an 8-frame box. So it seems one can space 8 frames apart in an 8-frame box similar to how 9 frames are spaced in a 10-frame box. If you do this, there is only one more honey frame in a 10 frame box. 

For the record, if you shave the frames a bit, you can place 9 frames in an 8-frame brood box (each frame spaced a bit closer than normal but still sufficient space). I haven't yet tried this but others have done this successfully. So if you have 9 frames in your 8-frame double deep brood box, then 8 frames spaced evenly apart in your supers, you have surprisingly similar capability to 10-frame double deeps with 9 evenly spaced frames in the supers. Some folks believe 8-frame equipment overwinters better as there is less chance of the colony migrating to one side of the box away from honey stores on the opposite side of the box.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> Could you discuss that a bit more? How is sugar more costly to the bees?


Brother Adam wrote that extensive fall feeding was detrimental to bees and stated that it was better to feed a limited amount if needed in fall and then do more extensive feeding in spring. Reading this piqued my interest so I started comparing fed vs unfed colonies over a period of years. The evidence was overwhelming that bees that fed themselves by storing honey survive winter much better than colonies fed large amounts of sugar. Why would this be so?

Think about the time of year that most feeding is done. Sometime in the fall when the beekeeper checks colonies and finds that some of them are a bit light weight, he decides that feeding is needed. Syrup is then fed until the beekeeper thinks there is enough to last until spring. The colony at time of feeding was busy rearing the final round of brood before winter. This brood is supposed to be long lived winter bees. But what happens when syrup is fed? Those bees that hatch are tasked with ingesting and inverting the syrup and converting it to stores that can be used later. Once inverted and moisture reduced, it is placed in cells and sealed over like honey. What impact did this have on the winter bees? It ages them prematurely as they consume body reserves that were supposed to keep the colony going and produce brood the next spring. These prematurely aged bees fly out of the hive to die at the first opportunity, usually about 2 months before they would have died otherwise. Converting syrup also promotes growth of nosema in the bee intestine. So now we have a bee prematurely aged and with an upset stomach going into winter and can't get outside for a bathroom break for several months. I might not make it very well under those conditions and have noticed that my bees don't either. Colonies treated this way go through a spring decline where the population dips precipitously sometime in February or March. If they make it through the decline, they are either unproductive in the spring flow or they may be too weakened and die. Weak colonies will often start brood rearing earlier than normal in a desperate attempt to rebuild their numbers. Once they start brood, they won't leave it. The colony starves out with honey only inches away.

There are times when leaving honey on a colony is even worse than feeding. Some regions have major honeydew flows in fall. Honeydew usually is very poor as winter stores. For those areas, removing the honey and replacing with syrup can improve survival. This is one reason why beekeeping is local with very few universally applicable truths.

I still have to feed from time to time. I usually keep a few supers of dark honey that can be moved to where it is needed. I also feed syrup made by mixing 1/4 honey and 3/4 sugar syrup. I do not feed more than 1 gallon per colony in fall, then follow up with more feed if needed in spring. By avoiding heavy feeding late in the year, my bees come through into spring healthy and ready to build a large spring population.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Fusion_power said:


> Sometime in the fall when the beekeeper checks colonies and finds that some of them are a bit light weight, he decides that feeding is needed. Syrup is then fed until the beekeeper thinks there is enough to last until spring. The colony at time of feeding was busy rearing the final round of brood before winter. This brood is supposed to be long lived winter bees. But what happens when syrup is fed? Those bees that hatch are tasked with ingesting and inverting the syrup and converting it to stores that can be used later. Once inverted and moisture reduced, it is placed in cells and sealed over like honey. What impact did this have on the winter bees? It ages them prematurely as they consume body reserves that were supposed to keep the colony going and produce brood the next spring.


I was unaware of this pernicious effect of liquid feed in the fall. Dar do you think the same applies to the paste food ( fondant )?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

Ian as they say all beekeeping is local. one year we indoor wintered 300 hives. probably a system like yours. total darkness, controlled temperature, fresh air brought in and exhaust old air out at floor level. a strong hive does not work well and smaller hives work better. you have worked out a system that works best for your operation. I used to run 600 in one deep for going south. now we use 2 mediums for the brood nest. If I was to leave bees here to winter in upstate ny I would use 3 medium supers. In the original post I think the guy in ga using a nuc with may supers on top. I still would compare my crop to his nuc producers. your system is totally different and I was not condemning your type system. think spring, alan


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Eduardo, it is not specifically the act of feeding that is a problem, it is feeding large amounts that causes problems. 4 liters of feed to a decent size colony has negligible effect. 20 liters fed to the same colony will cause the effects listed above. Note also that feeding in the fall causes problems where spring feeding does not because the bees are rearing new brood to replace dying workers. I still find it easier and better for the bees to use low grade honey in combs as bee feed.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ok. This year exceptionally I put about 4 kg ( about 9 pounds ) of fondant per hive between November and late January and I was worried. Thank you Dar!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Natbeek said:


> I have been watching alot of fat bee man you tube videos and he mentioned that 5 frames are actually the most productive compared to other hives. ....Are smaller configurations really more productive in other peoples experience? .


As originaly asked, yes smaller configurations are more productive. Smaller brood nests, less house keepers, combine the two nucs under an excluder and their productivity amplifies. We can take all the honey this way. 
I do the same with my singles, expand the best into 2 brood during the spring, then push her down into the single for the flow. The single is used exclusively for brood production all the production is taken up top.

It's all about managing numbers and space 

I have never had a problem feeding my bees. I give them 4-5 gallons in the fall
My hives sit many months broodless on syrup and do extremely well


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I'd say whatever you have faith in - to some extent anyway.

A lot of these effects are really hard to measure even if you were making every effort - so we end up having a lot of faith in our anecdotal evidence - what we think we observe. I observe that I probably rob too much ($3.00/lb) honey and feed too much ($0.35/lb) sugar but I hardly lose any bees over winter, and beat my state averages. So that is what I believe in. Scientifically speaking my 40 hives and mere 7 years (almost) experience is probably not a good statistical model, but nonetheless...


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

All beekeeping is local. I learned a lot from Fatbeeman videos, but he is in Georgia. They get cold weather, but not like other areas of US. In one he states, bees can make enough honey for winter from first goldenrod bloom. Georgia has 3 more weeks of fall generally than I do, that's a big difference. That's why new beekeepers need a local mentor, a local bee club, and a computer to watch bee based video


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

@Fusion Power:

Thanks for your lengthy and thoughtful reply to my question. My own ladies go into winter in well-supplied hives, but I have an out of town neighbor who started a package last year in May, didn't feed it at the start, took some honey in July and when I checked on them at Labor day had not one lick of stored honey or much pollen in the hive. Undoubtedly it was also the victim of some robbing, as well. (Probably my own naughty girls were helping with that.) 

Since I am in northern NY, lack of stores in late summer is usually fatal, as you might imagine, because our growing season can end as early as late September/ early Oct. Last year we got lucky and there was still nectar coming in at the end of October, and I fed them gallons of syrup as long as I could. (And treated them, too.) The final hive weight was about 110 lbs, which was a triumph since it weighed around 35-40 lbs on Labor day. I added a couple of frames of honey from another colony and have some more of my own to put in as soon as I can get a day warm enough to do that. The queen is Italian and responded by ramping up her brood - a risky, but on the whole, good thing as the hive wasn't particularly well-populated when I discovered the problem. Not a dink, but not teeming, either. 

I insulated that hive well, QB, foam panels, etc., and have recently started to add winter patties to get us through the next two months before we can expect fresh nectar. As of last weekend they still looked fine, so I am hopeful. Your mention of sugar prematurely aging bees had me worried, but what can you do? Without the supplemental food, I expect they'd be dead by now, anyway, particularly as after a remarkably warm winter, we are now facing an unusually cold six or eight weeks to finish off this pseudo-winter. 

To get back to the original topic of this thread: I am not harvesting honey at this point, but my huge hives - three 10-frame deeps are their core area - produce a great deal of honey. I send each of them into winter with 18-22+ deep frames of honey plus a 10-frame medium of capped honey in hives that weigh well more than 175 lbs apiece. Plus I have a surplus of capped frames that I add to my first-year starts/nucs and keep back for emergencies like you do. Because I have devoted all the honey to making more bees and colonies that's been OK, for now. But I think next summer, or the following one, I'll have to deal with it. I suspect that one of the reasons I have had no winter losses so far is that I leave all the honey. Deciding what will be my eventual "normal" winter size is what I am trying to work out now, which is why I found your cost-analysis so thought provoking and useful.

Enj.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

All beekeeping is local! I think that to say fanning down sugar syrup compromises winter bees, needs qualifying. If nectar is short and the bees are scrounging hard for resources then they are wearing out their wings looking for food moreso than if it was supplied at their door or hive top. Whether it is nectar or sugar syrup it needs the same amount of drying down.

My location very seldom gets a reasonable fall flow and I cant wait to see if it comes or it would usually be too late then to feed. Yes they cast bees off into the snow that were mature foragers at shut down; those dont suddenly disappear at the snap of a finger at the end of October whether you feed or not. 

I do prefer to feed gradually to augment any natural forage and watch the scales. The brood gets pushed down entirely out of the top brood box and it is solid capped stores. 

Like David LaFerney, I am quite happy to trade $5.00 a pound honey for 50 cent sugar and have excellent winter survival. Without that cap and trade deal I would otherwise often have a net honey take of about 30 or 40 pounds here on the edge of the northern boreal forest.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The only connection I see between hive size and productivity has more to do with managing the space. In that sense a smaller box gives you more control over the space as you can add half as much space at a time with eight frame mediums as you can with ten frame deeps.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesspace.htm


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> The only connection I see between hive size and productivity has more to do with managing the space. In that sense a smaller box gives you more control over the space as you can add half as much space at a time with eight frame mediums as you can with ten frame deeps.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesspace.htm


Some queens fill the supers with bees and honey, some queens get the squish. The exact management of bee space with the box size isn't a management practice I'd jump into. If the queen can fill the brood chamber (4 mediums) in maples (nc), then great. We're going to make honey with a flow. If it's a cluster with a couple frames of brood then maybe she's just not cut for the job. Obviously leaving out other possibilities in an attempt to simplify, but I would argue opposite of your statement. I'm working 10 frame deeps into my production hives, cause I am tired of making so many medium boxes to keep up with these over producing queens. How about, "appropriate space is more productive" and we can all argue about that.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFile...00/302-Harbo--Worker-bee Crowding Affects.pdf

Study on worker bee crowding and production.


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## Karen of NH (Jan 30, 2014)

thanks for digging that up Bernhard!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Add the space up top


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> The only connection I see between hive size and productivity has more to do with managing the space. In that sense a smaller box gives you more control over the space as you can add half as much space at a time with eight frame mediums as you can with ten frame deeps.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesspace.htm


This is precisely why a hobbyist who is a hobbyist would be a dummy for messing around with 10 frame deeps. As a hobbyist you are going to want to micro manage the hive or not want to be involved that much with the hive. The 8 frame medium hive is the answer.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> The 8 frame medium hive is the answer.


Yet it is the most expensive option. $116.92 - 4 Medium 8 frame


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I think any hive can be productive with the right management.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm kind of with Carlson and Bush...it's more about the beekeeper than the size of the box. 

The "right size" box is one of the great balancing acts in the skill of beekeeping. A 10-frame deep is also an 8-frame deep if one uses hive dummies. More expensive? Yes, but mine have slots for partitions, so they are useful as a single deep 10-framer, an 8-framer with a hive dummy and a frame feeder, as a 2 x 5-frame double nuc', as a 2 x 4-frame double nuc' with frame feeders, as a 3 x 3-frame mating nuc', and as a 3 + 7-frame breeder queen isolation hive.

A beekeeper who has a few years under his belt, knows the weather cycle, correctly predicts the rainfall for the year, drops his bees onto some excellent nectar / pollen flows, stays ahead of the mites, re-queens promptly, places robbing screens on in time, feeds the right stuff at the right time, will very likely know what size box the bees will grow into at each drop. If anything, he errs slightly on the large size, in order to avoid the financial devastation of swarming.

One size box, one size frame is a great convenience to the beekeeper. Heck, try stacking a bunch of odd-size mismatches on your truck...Mediums make a lot of sense, but my mentor of 40 years uses all 10-frame deeps. He gets better brood pattern on that size frame, the right amount of bee bread above it, and some honey along the top, especially in the corners. Maybe its our area, dead space is not so much a problem here where winters are mild, as it is for Mr. Bush up in Nebraska.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

The most productive hives are jumbo deep singles, in combination with a follower board to adapt the size to the broodnest. Thus crowd them in the brood area. And as Ian said, once adapted/crowded you keep on supering at the top. The more you super, the more honey comes in. 

Empty cells in a dearth = pollen.
Empty cells in a flow = honey.

Remember that nectar has a much higher water content. So the resulting volume of honey was three times the nectar before. So three combs of nectar make one comb of honey. You need enough buffering space so the bees can store the nectar and process it. The less available cells for buffering, the less honey is the result.

You don't want that empty cells in the brood area, because once those cells were filled with either pollen or honey, the bees are less willing to raise brood in it. So keep pollen and nectar out of the broodnest (not completely, but don't get it clogged with it)

Yes, there is a one size fits it all, it is the adaptable hive. And with such a hive, that adapts to the bees ability to raise brood and bees, you can make honey even from smaller hives.

Bees that got lost in space in the broodnest, are not really productive.


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## skyscraper (Aug 29, 2016)

Bernhard, do you advocate the follower board usage year round?

Also, do you use a QE year round?


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Follower board year round. 

Queen excluder only with honey supers on.


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## skyscraper (Aug 29, 2016)

Thanks.
Is this an evolution from having foragers come in through the brood nest and "smell the pheromones"?
Do you have a blog, post, or article that has your most-to-date philosophy on single brood box?

Since we here in the US are unable to buy Dadent Deep boxes, several around here are making their own custom sizes.
If you could make a custom brood box, would you make it any deeper than the ones you currently use?


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