# An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES



## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

These might help:


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Looks interesting. What are the advantages over a traditional Langstroth style hive?


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## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

Good luck. You will probably get some newbee enthusiast to fall for it.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

How long have you kept bees in those hives, and what have been your observed results?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

They are very pretty and will likely appeal to a certain type of garden beekeeper.

The size limitations and cost will likely rule them out of commercial use.

However it seems like they would work, so good luck with your endevours. Please update here so we can see how things go.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

You made something that's cute but not practical.


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## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

That looks very interesting Doug. What size is each hexagon "box"? How does the volume compare to a deep or medium langstroth?


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## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

How much does that weigh when filled with honey? How would we harvest honey from it?


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

As someone who has seen my fair share of patent rejections, I wish you good luck with obtaining your patents. There are lots of hexagonal stacking hives out there. First thing I thought of was the bee barrels stacking horizontal hexagons.

That looks a lot like other things I've seen, and it even bears some resemblance to 4500 year old north African beekeeping. 

It will really depend on the specifics of your patent application. If you've patented a unique method of fastening the boxes together that's probably good. If it covers hexagon boxes or hexagon frames then you'll learn first hand how the patent rejection notice feels.

Good luck in your endeavor.


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

Very pretty, but like someone else said, not practical, as I see it. Good luck, I'm sure you will find some people with $$ to spend, that want a pretty beehive in their garden. Looks like it would be difficult to OAV. Does look interesting though.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

That is a very nice looking product and I wish you good luck with it. I am sure there are plenty of beekeepers who would like to try them out, including me. But now, I will play devils advocate:
You mention "there must be a better way to keep bees than in stacks of heavy boxes" and what you have created is hexagon shaped stacking boxes. What makes these better?
To avoid lifting the heavy boxes, most beekeepers use a long Lang hive or a top bar hive. Other than the shape, how does this system compare?
As Scott mentioned above, what is the volume of the hive and how does it compare with a standard 20 frame/2 box Langstroth hive?
Finally, if you need to move these hives, what is the best way to do so? It looks to me that the odd shape of the hive would make it really difficult. 

Again I will repeat, it is a really neat looking product and I hope the patent process goes well for you. Even if the patent does not go through, when the product is for sale, let us know. I am sure there are people here that will want to try them.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Not going to repeat the comments above (enough said)...

Here are few points where I am trying to be useful, since OP asked for it.
If a new design is proposed, then it is is kinda assumed to offer benefits over some existing prototype.
So, let's take existing commercial Lang 10 frame, multi-body as a prototype to compare and ask few questions?

* which exact weaknesses of the prototype this FOLD-HIVE is trying to resolve?
** lack of visual appeal?
** lack of insulation?
** need to lift heavy supers?
** other?

* if any of the above questions are answered to demonstrate superiority of the FOLD-HIVE over prototype, what are the associated costs?
** high cost in $$ up front?
** lack of compatibility that means MORE $$ to maintain the FOLD-HIVE in the future (locked in to the vendor)?
** any newly introduced issues (e.g. too many moving parts causing excessive complications in maintenance)?

Simply put, what is the OP trying to solve?

As for me it is only trying to solve the lack personality of the commercial Lang boxes.
Well, this particular issue has been solved many times already while not introducing new issues that the FOLD-HIVE has many (too many for me).

PS: the issue of "stack of heavy boxes" has been solved many times over (even before the issue came along to begin with).


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

....dup....


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## noljohn (Jan 9, 2013)

I can see several problems for me to convert to something like this. How am I going to move hives. How am I going to extract my honey. Nothing I have is compatible with this. How am I going to feed or use OAV. Doesn't look like inspections would be easy to do. But they look neat.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Cute and novel, but looks expensive per cubic foot and time consuming to work the bees.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Ingenious and attractive - a real work of art. This design will be time-consuming to both build and then to inspect colonies afterwards. So - not at all practical. But - good luck ...
LJ


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Did you ever have trouble folding the hexagons back up? After you unfold the two upper hexagons down beside the lower one, did you ever have trouble getting the bees out of the hinge area and keeping them out while you folded each hexagon back up? In this picture it looks like a lot of bees can get squished in those two hinges.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Methinks this was either the right place to post for critical analysis, or the wrong place to post for support. I am certain folks on Indigogo will send money, as well as i am certain that those people will not be current beekeepers. 

Good luck with your newest mouse trap.


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## Richinbama (Jan 15, 2018)

Very neat looking setup. I'm a new beekeeper, so my opinion doesn't count. 
My thoughts as follows... 
Very artistic looking. 
I don't think it will work out for average beekeeper, it's just not practical. Looks like it would be hard to work, and you couldn't use on an extractor. 
You probably wouldn't get much comb sold either. Not able to cut into neat squares, or rectangles. Allot of waste if you did. 
Many other downfalls , but will not go into that. 
You probably would sell a few to some rich folks that want something pretty in their rose garden, but to get them to actually work it , would probably be another issue. 
Sorry if it seems critical, but not trying to be. Just looking at design, and best uses. ... an art piece that may get used, but not utilized by Many folks. Sorry.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

That's a slick design for a hive. Definitely a specialty hive. Someone out there wants 10 of these. Best of luck with it wasabi :thumbsup:


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

You have an interesting product, but I don't see how is "solves" any perceived problems in a Langstroth set up. Weight was solved a long time ago with the introduction of polystyrene foam hive bodies. Appearance rates an A+ but it looks like workability gets an F. I suggest you market to the "save the bees" crowd and not waste your time trying to convince serious beekeeprs that you have built a better mousetrap.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I would say wasabi has did what he wanted. So far he has 20 comments and has not had to say one word except his origional post. It is a nice looking hive and would look pretty neat in the right place and could be used to show that it is not the box that keeps bees alive as they live in all kinds of places. It would be nice to know that the guy that put it out there for comment was actually seeing the people talking to him though. 
Cheers
gww


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I know my plain square old langstroth boxes warp. Do cute little hex boxes warp and if they do is it easy to deal with? They are cute garden hives.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Hi beeks. I'm dead tired and it is late. I just spent the better part of an hour preparing responses when my #%[email protected]& satellite internet crashed. Shortspeak is I'm too grey to enter the proverbial ring for money but what I am facing from the internet is like taking a shower from a firehose. 

I need some down time so I'm bed bound for now. When the computer stalled it was trying to post this: I'm too pooped to retype it all. 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=342287

I notice auto-saved pops up frequently in lower right corner on beesource. Perhaps some of the brilliant admins can recover.....?

Best to all and to all a good nite. If this can't be done I'll start over on the morrow.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

There is no Mod/Admin solution to recovering an 'unposted' message AFAIK. In some circumstances a message gets flagged by the system as "moderated", and then is not visible until a Mod 'approves' the message, but that is not the case here.

The safe approach for a long message is to compose it in some kind of [local] editor (Wordpad, Quickedit, nano, etc) and then copy/paste it into the forum message window. A riskier option (but better than none) is to just periodically copy your message into your system's paste buffer (Control-C or right-click Copy, etc) so if something goes wrong you can then paste from the buffer into a new message.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Thank you everyone for your questions and patience. I'm going to have to be brief here out of practicality. I just replied to five or six specific questions using "quick reply" when I clicked load on the last one (just got to GregV - He gets the door prize ) when I got a message that what I posted was a duplicate. I don't have time to use a cumbersome system with a snail slow internet connection so I'm going to ask you to bear with me while I prepare answers offline and find a better way to deal with all the details. A few, answers here and then I've got to sign off, 

Our hive boxes are between a lang medium and lang deep in size, however they have more square inches of comb per cubic inches of space. This means less effort from the girls to heat and cool

Two of our frames fit per bracket in most extractors. The frames are also sized to fit 5 gal pails for crush and strain. FOld-Hives make great hexagonal shped comb honey

Fold-hives open up quicker with about half the lifting. In fact, once in place, the only lifting for our three box version (X3) is the removal of top and attic station and/or top super. 
With our larger seven box version (X7) one lifts top, attic feeding station or super and the center hive box. 
All the others fold down and back up. I've never had to use two hands to lift the folding hive boxes.

These hive boxes nest together in a "cluster" which means the inner double surfaces provide more insulation and isolation for each box. The tops also have extra insulation.

Moving our small hive is not much different from a two or three box lang set up. In both cases straps and a couple of backs or better yet a dolly.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Wasabi - thanks for the replies.

i like the hive’s unique look. Do you sell them?


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Hi shinbone,

Not yet but I plan to. I'm satisfied with insights tweaks from 4 prototypes and ready for our first manufacturing run of CNC parts. Our plan is to see if experienced beeks (N America FIRST) like the hives enough to want to help beta-test. These hives won't technically be for sale, but will become available to early adopters, innovators and DIY's in kit form for deep discounts when we launch.


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

If you haven't already, join this forum: https://forum.honeyflow.com and advertise them here.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Wasabi have you had bees in your own ones?


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

looks neat. Not sure how it helps the beekeeper other than its artsier than a lang.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

looks like a scaled down version of the horizontal Cathedral Hive.

Here are thoughts about operation.

1. It will take too long to open and close and inspect frames for normal hive operations such as requeening.

2. Can be expanded or contracted as needed for a large or small colony which is an advantage.

3. Does not discourage predators such as skunks by design.

4. Not easily transported.

5. Not easily fed.

6. Not easily treated for mites and diseases.

7. Will be expensive relative to most other hive designs.

8. Does it incorporate a queen excluder? Otherwise the queen will lay in the honey storage boxes.

9. By the looks of the design, it will artificially compress the bees in early spring which will dramatically increase swarming.

Here is a comparison to determine if this hive is cost efficient. I can build out a square Dadant hive with all the required parts for about $75.

1 - cypress top and bottom with entrance reducer $27
1 - square Dadant box - $15
1 - Excluder $25
14 - frames built to my specifications $28
14 - sheets foundation $28
Nails, frame wire, glue, and paint $11
Total for a complete hive $134


As an aid to understanding hive design, please look up the Stewarton Hive, Jackson Horizontal Hive, Perone Hive, Rose Hive, Cathedral hive, and Layens hive.

In my opinion, your hive will be too much work to manage and has too many parts. Re the patent, a hive very similar to this was patented back in the late 1800's. I've got pictures of it around here in a book.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses and questions.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that I've invented a better mousetrap, nor are these hives yet in production so I'm not trying to sell anything. I am convinced, however, there is room for a different approach to beekeeping and that conventional practices could stand some improvement. This is simply an idea I've worked on for quite some time that I'm sharing to gauge interest level. I don't expect everyone to love it, but I'm interested in why or why not. 

I've bee-tested and tweaked my prototypes for three years. The bees take to the frames, which closely match their natural cluster size, and move about the hives and to the attic feeder nicely. 

Here are three aspects of my Fold-Hives that I believe will help bees and beeks: 

1) Tighter Spaces - Experienced beeks know that bees thrive in close quarters. A common practice, especially with small colonies, is to crowd them to fewer frames by using follower boards. Our Fold-Hives boxes are sized just right and enclosed by inner covers. The resulting ratio between available comb and cubic inches of hive space creates tighter spaces than exist in rectangular hives. This means bees don’t have to work quite so hard to maintain optimum cluster temperature. 

2) Quicker Inspections - The easy folding action not only helps beeks by offering full hive access with less lifting. It also allows quicker inspections with far less disruption. Since each side opens independently, beekeepers can selectively access portions of their Fold-Hive without disturbing the other side. Even if their entire hive is opened flat for full hive access, inner covers keep the bees in each hive box cosily contained until that specific portion of the hive is opened for inspection. This means the bees can calmly carry on with their business. 

3) Better Insulation and Ventilation- The way Fold-Hives nest together means that each hive box is better insulated by the doubled walls. We’ve also added insulation board to each roof section, making Fold-Hives interiors much more energy efficient. To manage humidity, we’ve included Venturi chimney vent openings so that air can rise and exit through the attic. This action vents away excess hive moisture creating a drier, healthier environment for bees.

Q-1 These hives don't look typical. Do they work with regular hive frames? 
A-1 No, they don't. Typical hives are rectangular stacked boxes. Typical frames are rectangular leaving corners and margins outside the cluster. Fold-Hives frames will not fit in typical hives, nor will their’s fit ours.

Q-2 When Fold-Hives are folded open won't uncapped nectar leak out?
A-2 Good practice means leaving the hive alone as much as possible during strong honey flow, but even if one needs to open their FOLD-HIVE before honey is capped, it’s unlikely to spill. The frames rotate a bit more than half way so they’re never upside down. Honey is viscous so it flows slowly. Typical inspections of one side should be under five minutes.

Q-3 How does one move these hives?
A-3 Pretty much the same way you would move a stack of rectangular hives. Strap them well and move with a couple of backs and/or a two wheel dolly.

Q-4 How do these hives compare to Langstroth’s?
A-4 Size wise, Fold-Hive boxes contain slightly more comb area than Langstroth Medium with 10 Frames. As for appearance/aesthetics, the feedback is they are clearly better.

Q-5 They look like they will be too expensive.
A-5 In Langstroth's time labor was cheap and automation was nearly non-existent. With today's technology we can make parts very economically. With a time-honored tradition of making or assembling their own gear, I think there is a market for innovators, early adopters and others. A key objective for this project is to have enough scale to make them affordable. The very last thing I am interested in is making expensive hobby hives.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Fusion Power -

yes to queen excluders
easy to feed via attic feeding space

I've not the experience you have but find this easier to manage than rectangular hives. They open quickly and easily, the frames more tightly surround the comb

As to "too many parts" the modular nature of this system creates the exact opposite of that. There are actually fewer separate parts in Fold-Hives than Langstroth by a wide margin


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

"As an aid to understanding hive design, please look up the Stewarton Hive, Jackson Horizontal Hive, Perone Hive, Rose Hive, Cathedral hive, and Layens hive."

I find it interesting you would assume that I made what I have with little or no research of other hive systems. I've read everything I can find, and love researching old patents. There has been a lot of minds at work on beekeeping over the past few thousand years. I'm just one more person with ideas who happens to (perhaps audaciously) that there may be healthier methods to help bees survive environmental and over-wintering challenges. 

Perone, Rose and Layans as well as Dadant all offer iterations of rectangular frames popularized by Langstroth. The Stewarton is more like Hex Hives which both require multiple size frames.

The closest in function and looks is the Cathedral variation of a Top Bar Hives. There are a number of differences, including size of combs and the fact that ours are fully surrounded by frame.
With the larger size of the Cathedral half-frames I would worry that unsupported comb might break. Also, the smaller frames in my system can be easily inspected or replaced with one hand


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

FWIW:

https://youtu.be/fHkQOA77EqQ


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Still pics. No I want to see you opening that cute hive up. Make another video and really show how it works.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

dan


> Still pics. No I want to see you opening that cute hive up. Make another video and really show how it works.


:thumbsup:
gww


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

yep, to sell a curant beekeeper ya got to show the guts
however I think 3:32 give me the view i was looking for. I am concerned about the cluster's ability to move from box to box and getting traped away from the stores.
Wasabi what plant zones have these been tested in?


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## Richinbama (Jan 15, 2018)

I'd really love to see a functional hive in use. 
The design looks nice to the eye. Do you keep bees in yours at the current time wasabi? Id like to see one in use, and see it function with a colony in it. I bet it's nice!!! 😊


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I wonder how they would handle a tornado?


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

msl

only zone 6 thus far. we are pre launch so seeking beta testers for data collection.

doug


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Richinbama said:


> I'd really love to see a functional hive in use.
> The design looks nice to the eye. Do you keep bees in yours at the current time wasabi? Id like to see one in use, and see it function with a colony in it. I bet it's nice!!! &#55357;&#56842;


It is quite the sight Rich. I'm rebooting with packages behind electric fence this spring after losing hives to bears last fall.


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## Richinbama (Jan 15, 2018)

Them black bears sure like honey...


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## StephenT (May 15, 2017)

I've enjoyed "experimenting" some with my hives. Started with traditional langstroths and recently made a 38 frame horizontal lang to try and save my back some. Working out well so far. Yours look fairly light. Would definitely need a little air flow for the hot summers here in South Texas.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Actually they like the larvae....protein !


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## roddo27846 (Apr 10, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> You have an interesting product, but I don't see how is "solves" any perceived problems in a Langstroth set up. Weight was solved a long time ago with the introduction of polystyrene foam hive bodies. Appearance rates an A+ but it looks like workability gets an F. I suggest you market to the "save the bees" crowd and not waste your time trying to convince serious beekeeprs that you have built a better mousetrap.


Thought it was the hundred pounds of honey that caused the problem, not the few pounds of wood. Okay to bash the guy, but please make sense doing so.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks for the comment, Roddo.

That said, I think it is a sad commentary on the state of things when "it is ok to bash a guy" just because? Of course I expect some of that but the lack of civility in society and random attacks is frankly stupid. 
I also asked for feedback, and expected some constructive criticism but giving an idea an "F for workability" with absolutely NO knowledge or discussion of its function doesn't make sense. JWPalmer seems so intent on making himself look clever by bashing that he even accused me of building mousetraps, instead better beehives with improved insulation, faster easier hive access and fewer modular parts. 

Does he have something better he built to compare it with, some constructive comments or is he content to just be negative and bash? 
I guess I just don't get the point...perhaps I'm just too old school...."if you don't like my peaches, then why shake my tree?"


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I had the misfortune of meeting JWPalmer right when I started revisiting this site (amongst the other brainiacs). At least he presented himself as who he really is right off the bat. I like the aesthetics of your hive but have the same questions about ease of workability and interchangability, supering, etc.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

JW has never promoted an untested product here that he is trying to get buy in and investors for. He does at least take the time and try and help poeple that come to this site and need it. I have had hardy discussions with him when we were not on the same side and he came across as good natured and not hateful in those arguements. Wasabe, you have only promoted your product. Several have looked at your professionaly produced vidio ( that you did a good job on) and said it would be nice to see the thing in action and being worked in real time so that a real view of what is being looked at besides nice still pictures.

You are the promotor, we are the skeptics that you are trying to promote too.
You may have something but you did ask for opinions and you are the one trying to get buy in and help.

I would take the ten people that JW has helped over the request that you get help. 

I don't discount what you have done but also am having a hard time judging the need and am waiting on you to show enough that a real decision can be made and untill then, I like Jw, have to come to my conclutions with what I know now.

I think my warre hive is pretty compared to my lang hive and so I may put it up by the road but it has no advantages over my langs when it comes to running an apary. You are makeing the claim that your hive is better in more then just looks. I don't believe it yet and am waiting for you to show me. I don't call you a liar, I just say I don't see it yet and untill I do, I could not say that JW is wrong.

You did a nice job, the hive would make an area look nice in the way that some statues and log hives I have seen used for decoration. I could see people wanting one even if it only worked and did not work better than a lang. You have made a small case that it is better and you are going to have to show us how cause I don't see it with the knowlage I have right at this moment.
Good luck.
gww


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Rwurster - I don't consider meeting JW online a misfortune at all. Quite the contrary. I've read a lot of his posts that make perfect sense and I too am grateful to him and others for sharing their wisdom. I think it is worthwhile, however, to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. I get that folks want to see more of the interior workings. I also get that showing everything before the legal work is done is not such a good idea. That said, there is not near enough information left out for a reasonably discerning viewer to warrant a harsh "F" comment. That may be his opinion. I have mine and I hope other beeks make up their own minds. 

The core idea here is actually pretty straightforward and not such a leap of faith for logical thinkers. Consider this: While rectangular and square frames make perfect sense for woodworkers making them...are they really the most logical design we humans can come up with for the health of the bees? What's with all the corners and margins outside the cluster space? Do we cling to Langstroth's designs because they have become the default "standard" over the past hundred and seventy years or because they are actually superior in some way? Rectangular or square frames and boxes are counter-intuitive from the get go (except for the makers). Think about that. Bees cluster in an extended sphere, not a box shape. And irrespective of the inventors, or brands, typical rectangular hives have been experiencing horrific winter losses for years. I think it is time for some rethinking of what actually serves bees best. 

It seems to me the brilliance that bees have shown with honeycomb construction was ignored when is came to hive construction. The simple logic of spherical (bee cluster) shaped hives should suffice to jostle an acute mind if it is halfway open. But minds that are convinced they know better will also miss both the need and the importance of better temperature regulation. All the videos, explanations and pictures in the world won't change that dynamic. More importantly, I think the bees needs are better addressed in these hexagonal environs which 1) eliminate most of the corners and margins and 2) provide a tighter ratio of honeycomb area to cubic inches of hive space. Why would that matter? Heating and cooling the hive taxes the bees tremendously...to the point that they often don't survive winters due to fluctuations in hive temps that they simply can't sustain. With current stats indicating losses in excess of 40 percent, I think it is worth a try to make tighter, better insulated hives for bees to overwinter in. That these hives end up simplifying inventory and convenience for the beekeepers is a bonus, not the driving goal.

These hives are extremely easy to work as they quickly fold open for easy access to all hive boxes, but at the same time they allow enough isolation to help bees better manage temperature. Another factor that gives them an edge is is additional insulation. I've also taken a close look at the thermodynamics of beehives and have come up with a hive systems that retains heat better. It also happens to deliver a host of advantages to beekeepers, none of which on the surface is earth shattering, but collectively offer an alternative to the tried and not so proven typical, standard rectangular (or square) frames and stacks of boxes. Not for everyone, but if there is sufficient demand, we'll build them right. 

There have also been several comments regarding ventilation....an interesting but largely misunderstood matter. While it is true ventilation can help vent excess moisture, it not a good thing to simultaneously vent out and lose valuable heat, especially if it cools down the hive to the point that water condenses on cold inner covers and hive walls and get the bees wet.

As for interchangeability, supering etc, (presumably with Langstroth "standards"), the simple answer is there isn't much place for it in my hive design. I did consider it and have tweaked one of our standard hive boxes to accommodate four deeps and four mediums, but it is a contrived solution looking for an occasional problem. We'll likely offer it as an option for beeks that like to experiment. FWIW, the flexibility of my system does permit an extra "super" on top so a three box hive can become four and a seven box hive can become eight. 

All said, this beekeeping system is NOT designed to be compatible with Langstroth, Warre, UK National, AZ or any other hive system. My integrative hive system purports to offer a logical ALTERNATIVE to rectangular beekeeping as usual. I sincerely hope it can help "move the needle" on the declining incidence of bee health worldwide. If it helps some folks improve the appearances of their property or serves as a pretty garden hive, what's the harm of trying?


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Many people try to improve a hive.

My personal belief is to have less frames is better but this hive looks cute and to pull the frames must be a joy ( but not to look for the queen) 

I like this for hobbyists or "rose gardens":

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hob...Nz4XaAhXK_aQKHWnMCbAQsAQIRQ&biw=1885&bih=1012


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks for your comments, SiWolKe "cute" seems to be a popular descriptor.....not the goal, but we'll accept it....after all, they are, well, sort of "cute" 

I love seeing what so many beeks and designers have come up with over the last few hundred years. Tons of creativity out there!

I love the round hives and the hex hives I've seen, but they seem to require multiple frame sizes to work. Such is the case with the Hobosphere you like. Not practical but definitely nice eye candy.

That stunning design is built more for looks than practicality or functionality which may be fine if it is a one or two hive operation, but it would not scale well. 

With my new system all boxes and all frames are the same size and exchangeable within and between all our Honeycomb Hive boxes, from Nucs to full Fold-Hives.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Greetings Beeks,

A number of folks have commented here and on other beek groups that they think these Fold-Hives will be expensive, so this warrants mentioning:

In order to keep costs down and in an effort to produce long lasting hive boxes, we will be offering an economy version of these hives made out of high quality exterior plywood. I suspect, but have not yet decided, that this decision may also allow us to assemble the boxes with glue and staples and then ship them with necessary frames, closing hardware, entrance chambers, hinges, screws etc. This would mean some fairly simple assembly tasks but will be a lot closer to "just add bees" than assembling the whole hive from scratch. Also worth noting is that our CNC manufacturer has special exterior plywood specifically made for their product line and, as a result, I have access to literally tons of scrap at deeply discounted pricing. All in all, between this, CNC manufacturing and the modular nature of the design, this means my goal of making these hives competitively priced is entirely realistic. 

While I gather a lot of beeks make hives out of regular plywood, the only plywood we will use is high grade exterior. We'll likely sell them unfinished and suggest they be painted or oiled according to beek's preferences


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

If you can keep the cost down I would like to have one.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks for responding Dan

We WILL get the costs down and I'll soon know and post specificss. Additionally, we will discount first orders on INDIEGOGO when we launch. I expect the exterior plywood hives will allow us to keep those costs (and manufacturing complexity) down. My plan is to price them to be comparable to competing hives of similar quality. For example our target price for a three box Fold-Hive including 48 hexagonal frames is about the same price as a Lang 2 deep + 2 med + base + cover. The craftsman series with cypress boxes and interlocking joinery will naturally be more expensive, to what degree remains to be seen.

Unlike Flow-Hives, we don't anticipate ten million dollars of pre-orders.  That would be nice, and we would put the money to good work, but it is not necessary for us to move forward. Our primary focus is to fine tune the manufacturing to produce a great product. Future growth will come if the products impress. The first twenty new Fold-Hives will go into our expanding apiary here on our mountain farm in NC. Whatever number of preorders come in will be added to that, but it has to be a quick launch as we're aiming for delivering hives in May this year. I honestly have no idea how strong demand might be, so we'll start off modestly by offering what we think we can realistically manufacture, pack and ship for May delivery. If there is sufficient demand above that we'll offer extended delivery dates for the overflow. I really should have launched this earlier this year but there are a lot of details to say the least. 

The beest way to get the best price will be to get on board early in the launch to get "Early Bird" hives through INDIEGOGO, currently scheduled for April 21st, but we may move it up a bit. We're excited to beta-test with as many INDIEGOGO backers as want to get in on the ground floor, but we want to do this right. You can view the preview page and register your email with INDIeGOGO here to get more info and updates: 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...d-their-keepers-design-innovation/coming_soon.


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## JeffM17 (Jul 19, 2013)

Looking at this design and the photos does opening the hive invert the frames upside down? Wont that be a problem for uncapped honey that is not yet cured?


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks for a great question, Jeff

Good practice means leaving the hive alone as much as possible during strong honey flow, but even if one needs to open their FOLD-HIVE before honey is capped, it’s unlikely to spill. The frames rotate about half way so they’re never upside down. Honey is viscous so it flows slowly. Typical inspections are five to ten minutes, or even quicker with a Fold-Hive.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Brad,

Sorry for the delayed response, but here it is. We are at 3500 ft elevation in what is considered a "High Wind" area. 

Two years ago I lost two hives because the roofs acted like sails and were blown off in a vicious storm, exposing the colonies to rain and then bitter cold. 

Lesson learned. We now have secure roofs that can't blow off  
We also bolt our hives to the cross beams of the hive stands.

As for a tornado I doubt they will fare better or worse than other hives depending upon the category of storm


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Here is an uncut 9 minute explanation of how the 3X Fold-Hive works


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Hi wasabi. I somehow missed all the commentary regarding my previous post and I would like to apologize for coming across as harshly negative. I thumb type all my comments on a cell phone so I try to get straight to the point instead of being eloquently verbose. I guess my biggest "workability" issue is how the components come apart once the bees glue everything together. My bees produce a LOT of propolis. The baffle board and waffle board slide in grooves. The dividers in my queen castles do too. After just two months, the dividers are extremely difficult to remove. Other concerns involve weight distribution once the supers are full, ease of removing frames for hive inspections, and SHB control. You may also wish to address how the hexagonal frames can be used in traditional extracting equipment, as most beeks are not crush and strain. You have created a hive that is both unique and aesthetically appealing. But the real question remains. Can you keep bees in it? I for one, would love to see one of your hives that has had a full-sized colony in it for at least several months and watch a video of the inspection. That may allay a lot of trepidation that I ,and I am sure other beekeepers, have regarding your product.

The better mousetrap comment was referring to the quote, "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door." If your "mousetrap" does solve a problem or two, sales will surely follow.

Good luck and I hope to hear more about this hive in the coming months.

John


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Wasabi have you got bees in one yet, that you could show a video of?


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Hi Oldtimer (I'm probably close to you in years ,

I've got three colonies in three different prototype hives. All are doing reasonably well. No bees yet in the hives shown in the above video and it is 5th Gen that I just made in our farm shop mid August to display at EAS bee conference. I may get fall packages to experiment with overwintering, but bees have yet to inhabit the newest versions. 

I've got some rough footage of bees in earlier prototypes that I will clean up and post. Bees really like the confined spaces.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

John San (wasabi bows deeply)

Agree propolis can be a sticky problem. I'm looking into slips of very "slippery" plastic to help alleviate.

Weight distribution is eased (by half) with the hinging mechanism.

The universe seems to have conspired to make sure I thoroughly learn bee lessons

2014 - Year 1 - 2 Spring Packages - Langstroth Hives - Lost them to swarming due to ignorance
2015 - Year 2 - 2 Spring Packages - Langstroth Hives - Did well but lost during winter - likely condensation/freezing
2016 - Year 3 - 2 Spring Packages - Prototype Hives - Thrived - then freak winds blew roofs off, rained on the girls and then got seriously cold
2017 - Year 4 - 3 Spring Packages - Prototype Hives - Two thrived until late fall when a huge black bear turned hives into kindling
2018 - Year 5 - 3 Spring Packages - Prototype Hives - built a bee penitentiary to keep bears away. All three doing fine on foundation-less frames

The hives in the video are generation 5 - We have had bees in three previous gens, but these have yet to house bees as I just made them mud August to introduce at the 2018 meeting of EAS in Hampton VA, We do have bees doing well in and I've got some rough video footage I'll post soon.

Thank you for your observations, suggestions and kind comments


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Brad Bee said:


> I wonder how they would handle a tornado?


 I bet these fold hives will handle a tornado about as well as a Langstroth hive, a mobile home, shed, barn, home or just about any other structure. 

Alex


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Agree with that ALex

Learned some tough lessons from living in a High Wind Zone 

Added strong cam-closures and spring pin latches to keep roofs secure 

We also bolt our hive bases to hive stands ....(belt and suspenders approach from now on)


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

What is the hardware made of? Is everything either galvanized or stainless steel? That is a must for outdoors in my climate. 

I see that you have focused on handling cold winters, but wonder how extreme heat and humidity of Florida summers will impact it. The width of the combs appears more like what I saw doing three cut outs this summer. However, I wonder why we keep building the comb to be horizontal when bees build it to be vertical. 

The tipping of frames is still a concern for me, especially when building up a hive. Have you considered a hinge style that won't cause so much rotation? I was in build up mode this year and constantly in the hives to split them out, move brood from strong hive to newer hive, ensure queen rearing hives had plenty of stores, etc. 

How will you provide useful boxes for queen rearing and nuc size building? I can see starting a hive in one box, but around here I don't like to have empty boxes that can't be defended and it looks like multiple boxes are needed to put a feeder on. Too many palmetto bug, german roaches, etc. like to call them home. The thought of the nasty bacterial and disease they carry getting into my honey hives is not a pleasant one. 

How are you overcoming the problems that some people see where bees won't cross a queen excluder, which looks like it may be an issue with the slits as passage between boxes. How much space is needed between hives?

Even quality exterior plywood concerns me in this environment. Constant rain, heat, and humidity usually destroy it rather quickly. What type of rating does it have for en environment like mine where it will be exposed to the elements, not covered by vinyl to protect it. Paint helps some, not not as much as one might think. Having painted surfaces stacked on each other will glue them together worse than propolis in the summer.

These don't look like they will stack well compared to langs on a pallet, so commercial beeks are off the menu. Your 3 hive backyard, keep it aesthetic looking crowd is probably your best target group.


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## wasabi (Jun 14, 2016)

Good morning Jadeguppy,

Thanks for a wealth of insightful observations and questions. I'll address them one at a time

1) Hardware: Yes, all hinges, pins and screws and fasteners are stainless steel or galvanized.

2) Ventilation: Air moves gently through all boxes via thru holes and bee channels to exit through roof vents in Cupola or Attic Tops

3) Rotation: This system is designed for easy swapping of frames between Fold-Hive boxes and or any of the other Honeycomb Hive Types.
Folding action means hive boxes are only open for inspections or maintenance tasks which typically last only about five minutes. 

4) Box sizing. Great question - Our hive boxes all feature dividers so that all can be sectioned into nuc sized chambers. This means, for the 3X Fold-Hive,
 for example, that it is possible to section it into six nuc sized chambers with seven entrances. Similarly a Honeycomb starter hive can be divided into
two chambers with two entrances, a Honeycomb Flex hive 3 and a Honeycomb Long-Hive four. 7X Honeycomb Fold-Hive, The Ultimate Garden Beehive
can be divided into 14 separate chambers for queen raising or overwintering nuc sized colonies with up to 17 entrances. All chamber accept 15 frames.

5) Feeder Tops: All 7 Honeycomb Hive Types except the Nuc-Boxes offer Cupola or In-Hive Attic Top Feeders. Divider Feeders are also under development.

6) Bee Transit: The 3/4" holes and Bee-ways in the Waffle Boards separating hive boxes allow free bee and air movement between Fold-Hive hive boxes. Standard queen excluders (cut to size- 2 per) also easily slip into the grooves for Baffle or Waffle Boards so each hive box can keep the queen isolated to that box but leaves the workers free to migrate into cooperative honey production areas. The space between hives is limited to bee space to avoid wonky comb buildup.

7) Construction: Void-free high quality exterior plywood, precisely machined, carefully engineered parts, ensures tight construction and good fitting boxes and parts. 
This makes Honeycomb Hives not only affordable...it also means each modular hive box can be re-purposed or resized per beekeeper's preference. 

8) Hive Stacking: Great for gardens or backyard apiaries, our hives are not designed for commercial use nor oriented to be swap typical rectangular frames.


Hope this helps clarify. Thanks again for your insights! Doug


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