# Ants and my hives



## Heartspark (Mar 18, 2011)

Some of the ways i've read is to put the bee's on a stand and the legs in coffee cans, and fill the cans with some type of oil to keep ants from climbing up legs. Making a moat.

Another one is to just use a lubricant on the legs of stand so ants get stuck trying to climb up. Both these require to re apply it after a heavy rain though.

I've heard certain plants/smells deter them as well, but have not researched that much.


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## honeybeekeeper (Mar 3, 2010)

I use DE around the hives and sprinkle cinnamin on the inner cover!


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## esnipes (Jul 11, 2009)

What is DE?


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## daj4cy (Aug 31, 2009)

D.E. = diacamus earth 
It is used in swimming pool applications for filtering.


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## merdoc (May 4, 2010)

I keep ant poison out not alot but i keep it sprinkeled around and under my hive.Be careful spilling sugar water that draws ants too.


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## Roadstar (Nov 1, 2010)

DE = Diatomaceous Earth.

But, not all Diatomaceous Earth is created, or treated, equally. Actually, the DE grade used for swimming pool filtration is not recommended for insect control. You can read about it here:

http://www.ghorganics.com/DiatomaceousEarth.html


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## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

Hey! I'm not too far from you and had the same problem. After looking at all the possible ways to fend them off I found a cheap solution.
I bought some grease at Wally World in the auto section...get the cheapest tube they have for grease guns. I think it was under $3.
Smear the grease on your hive stand legs about 3 or 4 inches off the ground and make the swipe about 3 or 4 inches wide. Put it on liberally.
Try to get the grease that is waterproof or highly water resistant.
I have had it on for a couple of weeks now through the bad storms and it is working great so far! I still have half the tube to reapply when needed.
No ants so far!! They won't try to cross it and if they do they are stuck!
Good luck!


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## GAnewbee (Apr 7, 2011)

Got the same problem here and I'm not far from Davel. Before I even read this today I took some Vasoline out side and rubbed it all over the paving stones that my hive is sitting on. 

I have 6 paving stones in a 2X3 arrangement with the hive sitting length-wise. On top of the paving stones I have 2 cinder blocks on which the hive sits. We ran out of Vasoline and thought about using a paint brush to coat the paving stones with some used motor oil (read that in another thread). It seems to me that Davel has a good idea.

In the other thread it was suggested digging a moat and pouring in used motor oil. This obviously has some environmental effects. What if the motor oil was just "painted" onto the stones? Does anyone think that would work?


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

I have a bad problem with the small "sugar ants". They are devastating the hives I made up from cutouts, presumably due to all the honey dripping in there and the fact that the colonies are weakened.

I tried vaseline. Works for about 10 minutes then melts and forms a crust that the ants just cross over on. That is in the 100 degree Alabama sun. I will try the grease idea.

I tried the motor oil moat. That did stop the ants. However, it became a killer for the bees. For some reason, the bees are attracted to it and the results ain't pretty.

I will try the cinnamon idea next. Hope that works.

-james (currently in AL)


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## stoffel64 (Sep 23, 2010)

I got Tanglefoot at our local ACE Hardware store. I also use cinnamon around the hive stand.
It works pretty well so far. Of course I find here and there an ant because some plants have grown 
and now start touching the hive stand and the ants get around the Tanglefoot. Keeping the plants 
low solves that problem.


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## Gibbus (Apr 22, 2009)

The problem I've had with the grease/vasoline on the stand legs is that after enough ants get stuck and die, the others use their bodies as a bridge and walk on in. Cinnamon on the inner cover has worked for me here in Ohio on the black ants, but I dont lknow about fire ants, because we dont have them. 

Which is one reason I live in Ohio.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I puffed the cinnamon liberally all over the concrete blocks that hold up the wooden bars for the hives. Took care of the tiny sugar ants overnight.


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## MichaelShantz (May 9, 2010)

These work great for me, no more problem. https://picasaweb.google.com/MichaelJShantz/BeeHive4302010#5601072462012353570
2" outer pipe, 1" inner pipe, CA glued to acrylic base, used motor oil or vegetable oil in moat, CD on top to keep bees out. We have small Argentine ants.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Love the image and design idea. Really simple, and cheap too. I printed out the image and will be making those. I have tons of pipe glue hanging around for the inground sprinkler system, which seems to have the need for repair jobs on a regular basis. The occasional pipe crack on a 15 year old system is the norm for us. CDs are pilling up too with either free software bundles coming with computers or simply outdated stuff on them. Right now I have pressure treated beam on concrete blocks. Perfect for those to go underneath the beams. Thanks for posting the image and your description of how to make them.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I soak the ground around and under the hive with this stuff...http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e079cd-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

I'm new at this so let the whippings begin.
It does work very well and I have every ant known to man on my property, lots of fire ants!


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

OK, I don't know if I am in trouble. I had ants. I used cinnamon to confuse them, that seemed to work for awhile, and I dumped compost tea all around the hive, it kills fire ants fairly well, doesn't hurt the bees. Hasn't totally eliminated the ants, I saw a couple of individual sugar ants, 2 species, on the outside of the hive box.

I have mega - heat, the bees opened up a vent between my supers right around the time of the ant incursion. I can tell when the bees are upset, they don't seem to be at the moment. 

I love the design on the bee moat, may add it very soon.

But right now I am afraid to open my hive, no bees guarding the front porch this afternoon at midday. Granted I see them all over the garden and at the ponds. A few ants on the outside of the hive.
But on the front porch, it's not very clean, maybe the bees are inside pushing debris there right now? I see about 1/8 to 1/4 inch gold hard globs, and smaller black bits that are probably insect waste. Only one dead bee on the porch. I'll go back out this evening when they are due to return to the hive.


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

Mbeck said:


> I soak the ground around and under the hive with this stuff...http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e079cd-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5
> 
> I'm new at this so let the whippings begin.
> It does work very well and I have every ant known to man on my property, lots of fire ants!


Guard Star also contains 40% Permethrin which is considered one of the best pesticides if you want to kill honeybees. Pollen and nectar laden bees returning that miss the landing board and end up in the grass. I wouldn't be willing to take a chance. Whipping #1... 29 lashes left to go!


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

From what I understand, Gard Star is also used as one of the best ground treatments for Small Hive Beetles. Just don't be spraying on the hive...ground treatment only with a coarse spray (no mist). It would probably be good to apply it late in the evening so it won't be long before the bees will be going in for the night.

Ed


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## psisk (Jul 21, 2011)

Since I am a hobby beek I use a single pipe stand with a angle iron frame built on it to hold my hives. Keeps them high enough not to have to bend over. I also have/had five different kinds of ant assualting my hives so I put a grease band about four inches wide on each post. It shut down the ants. I had sugar ants, red ants, fire ants, black ants and carpenter ants especially at night. No problems now and the hive shields the pipe from the weather. 

psisk


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

AMDRO, it kills all ants and the bees won't touch it
Do a search here for Amdro and see what you find.


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Okay, first of all--- DE around your bees is a good way to kill all of your bees. All it takes is one of your bees walking through it and bringing it back in their fuzzy hairs. 

Second of all: my solution. Vented inner covers. Cedar bedding under and around my hives. Cinnamon in the cedar bedding. It doesn't wash away that way.


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## Virginia Bee (May 20, 2010)

Hey this may sound silly but it works....3M Spray adhesive in a can like spray paint. I spray about a 3-4" heavy band around the stand legs every few weeks from spring until fall. It makes a glue trap and nothing much gets through...and no toxins make it into the hive.


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## bwhitecpa (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with Timer on this one. Use AMDRO granules (active ingredient is fipronil (sp?))and it should take care of your ant problem. Wear gloves and spread it by hand in approx. 10 ft diameter, broadcast spreaders may sling the granules into your hive. If your hive is in a grassy area, rake the grass after spreading to help the granules reach the ground.

I'm not knocking the suggestions of others, I'm sure their solutions work great. This one was just the most practical for me since I already have AMDRO for fireants.


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

*facepalm*

Fipronil... oh, where have I heard that before?



Wikipedia said:


> "In May 2003, the Direction Générale de l'Alimentation du ministère de l'Agriculture indicated a case of bee mortality observed in southern France was related to fipronil acute toxicity. Toxicity was linked to defective seed treatment, which generated dust. In February 2003, the French Ministry of Agriculture decided to temporarily suspend the sale of BASF crop protection products containing fipronil in France.[6] The seed treatment involved has since been forbidden.[citation needed] Fipronil was used in a broad spraying to control locusts in Madagascar in a program that began in 1997.[7]"


THIS is the chemical that is banned in France because of CCD suspicion! After Fipronil was banned, CCD began to disappear! It is a slow-acting, slow-decomposing, nervous-system destroying systemic pesticide.

Yeah boy-- I want that near my hives.

EDIT: IT appears Amdro is not fipronil, but it doesn't sound less toxic.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I guess I'm going to have to open the hive and look in it this evening. Still a grubby looking front porch, although they seem to have built a barrier to help keep the yellow jackets out. One happy healthy bee guarding the porch. The rest were already in the flowers and ponds at 8:15 this morning. My local beekeeper, who I bought the hive from, says I should wear my suit and open it. I'll carry the smoker out there, but as long as I don't have a lawnmower attached, the bees seem to know me. They just let me look around. I do hope they are ok.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

But many species of ants will not pick up amdro, even though they may eat honey. I used it under the piece of pondliner that my cinderblock hive base rests on, and when I checked 3 weeks later it was still there, uneaten. It does not work if they walk through it, gather it and build it into the anthill either. Only if they eat it.
I watered and used compost tea. Much less nerve wracking. Then cinnamon dust to lose the ants already on the hive.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Did anyone mention Queen Anne's Lace ? This natural wild carrot repels ants of all kinds. Sprinkle some seeds around your hives and let them do their work.


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

I use cinnamon to get rid of ants in my hives and it has been pretty effective. You can put some instant grits down and the ants will eat them and it sucks what little bit of moisture that they have in their bodies and then expands and kills them.I shake a liberal amount of cinnamon under my lids and shake it around in the bottom of my lids and then sprinkle it on the sides of the hives.Works really well for me.


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## af_newbie (Feb 9, 2011)

Put salt around the hive.


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## Bee_Rangler (Jul 17, 2011)

I used cinnamon on the ground to get rid of ants near my hives but found it washes away with the rain. 
So went to plan "B" Screw 4 (2 1/2 inch long ) lag screws into the bottem of your bottem board to at as legs. Leave the rear set of 2 exposed an extra 1/2 " for forward drainage and then place them in a 1/2 " plastic pipe cap. Fill the pipe cap with olive oil. Presto mini moats and nontoxic. The oil tends to wick over the sides of the pipe cap and saturates the 4x4 stand I have them sitting on repling ant's and perserving the wood.

Works great and is cheap.:thumbsup:


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

I bought a can of white lithium grease in a spray can and sprayed the legs ...no ants


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Bee_Rangler said:


> The oil tends to wick over the sides of the pipe cap and saturates the 4x4 stand I have them sitting on repling ant's and perserving the wood.
> 
> Works great and is cheap.:thumbsup:


I have a hard time visualizing your description especially the part of wicking over the sides, can you put up some photos?


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## herbcoop (Jun 2, 2011)

I now have a type of stand with a moat type, I put it to use yesterday, this morning I looked no ants on the outside of the hive but there are about a dozen or so bees that drowned. Is it because I used canola oil? Or it could be my moat pan is mounted on the ground, the pan is smaller than the hive for the reason of an umbrella effect to keep the rain out of the pan.
Any ideas on if bees are attracted to canola oil and I should use another type, I chose this oil as being friendly to the earth and easier to clean up in case motor oil over spilled if we had a huge rain


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## MichaelShantz (May 9, 2010)

Bees frequently miss their landings and, without a protective cover, will end up in whatever oil you use. I use CDs on top of the moats as you can see in this picture. https://picasaweb.google.com/MichaelJShantz/BeeHive4302010#5601072462012353570  No more bees in the oil. Also, the only reason to use oil instead of water is evaporation. Oil floats on water so if you put some water in the moat, it takes very little motor oil on top to keep the water from evaporating.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I got a cheap throw away plastic putty knife and spread Tangelfoot on all of my hive stand 4x4 post. Works great. Ant free for a month now where as before, they were in ant heaven with all the honey. 

Several things I've discovered however is that you have to smear it about 3 to 4 inch up from the ground on your post or the ants will build a vertical bridge over the Tanglefoot with sticks and leaves to bypass it. You also should re-apply once a month in hot temperatures. Make sure you wear throw away surgical type gloves when applying because like soft tree sap, it's impossible to get off your hands. 

Here's a good link:

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=Gcs-TpWXCs3WiAKE0rTDBg&ved=0CGAQ8wIwAg


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## herbcoop (Jun 2, 2011)

Thats what I'm thinking I looked this evening more towards the front and I noticed my front part of the hive could stick out farther than it is, so I'm moving it forward to see if this helps any. 
Thanks for the advice


MichaelShantz said:


> Bees frequently miss their landings and, without a protective cover, will end up in whatever oil you use. I use CDs on top of the moats as you can see in this picture. https://picasaweb.google.com/MichaelJShantz/BeeHive4302010#5601072462012353570  No more bees in the oil. Also, the only reason to use oil instead of water is evaporation. Oil floats on water so if you put some water in the moat, it takes very little motor oil on top to keep the water from evaporating.


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## beeherder (Aug 7, 2011)

I like the hive stand legs w cd's  
I have 3 hives on an old bed frame, angle iron, and keep the legs of the bed frame in, I wish coffee cans, but 2 liter bottles cut down, with water and orange oil in them. 
The water does evaporate, sometimes in a day in the phoenix heat, but I will mix the orange oil with mineral oil.
An old timer told me to use the mineral oil on top of water for keeping water in old batteries on a solar system from evaporating too fast.

I think the DE idea would be good if I had no other critters that would be harmed by it, by I will have earthworms here soon and don't want them to suffer or the other beneficials in the garden.

I was told by the fella I bought my nucs from to use Amdro, and it worked after 5 or 6 days, but they're back, just not gettting up into the hives. I spray the wall they climb on with orange oil. Many years ago I read that orange peel has something that repels ants, thus the orange oil, so if you have orange trees maybe scraping rind on the area around the hive... but it may draw other bugs, so maybe not. just an idea or food for thought

There are reported to be other herb s that you can grow around the hive that are supposed to repel ants, and if they flower for the bees that's a double shot  I'd go to a gardening site, maybe a few, that have this info. Googgle natural herb insect repellant or something.

My issue is that grass grows under my hive stand set up quickly due to the auto dog waterer I use to water my bees with, I stretch screen over the water bowl and the bees dip through the screen. What I intend to do to cut down on the grass growing there is get paving stones under the hive area and seed between stones with thyme. It should smother out the grass and when it flowers feed the bees. It's short enough that it won't breach my defenses  Could use a ground cover that repels the ants but I'd have to research for that...


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Grease/oil/tanglefoot: hot/dry/blowing dust, quickly cause this solution to be ineffective.

Cinnamon or other herbal solution, especially any that involve actually growing a living plant in proximity to hives: this may be effective during Winter, if that particular Winter were a wet one, they usually aren't - but the ants aren't usually very active in the Winter time.

I have also tried every ant poison or bait I could find. The only one that has actually been consistently effective, and seemingly causing no direct harm to the bees, has been Amdro® Ant Block.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Joe,

I was using Amdro for a while but it kept washing away and wasn't killing the ants on a consistent basis.
I came up with a solution that requires little maintenance. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ive-Stand-Actually-Works!&highlight=ant+proof

Once a month just use a putty knife and skim off the debris on the surface of the inverted grease cups. It works great! No more ants!


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