# My version of a OAV vaporizer.



## Aroc (May 18, 2016)

I'd like to see it in action. Any way we can get a vid? I use a wand but am looking for a propane option as well.


----------



## MT204 (May 12, 2011)

Aroc said:


> I'd like to see it in action. Any way we can get a vid? I use a wand but am looking for a propane option as well.


It snowed today, I'll try and get a quick video tomorrow and post.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

That's beautiful. Nice work.


----------



## hvacrich0 (Aug 25, 2014)

Did you build this yourself or have someone assemble it for you? I'm not to sure I could build this myself but may try. Do you ever go to the bee meeting at C Falls, Id like a closer look at this sometime if you wouldn't mind.


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Well, that's pretty nifty - especially the clever (and attractive) tubing that makes up the stand and the coil around the handle..

What data do you have about the max temps of the burn? As I understand it overheated OA degrades into formic acid, and perhaps other things.

Do the by-products of the propane combustion enter into OA sublimation plume, or are they confined to the combustion chamber?

Because I am a complete dope about these sorts of things, I can't figure out why you have two lines coming from the propane tank. My little torch thing, which I use for soldering, has just one snout.

One of the charming things about beekeeping is that beekeepers, as a group, are such clever and ingenious tinkerers. And you are upholding that tradition with your neat OA gadget.

Bravo!

Enj.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

enjambres said:


> What data do you have about the max temps of the burn? As I understand it overheated OA degrades into formic acid, and perhaps other things.
> 
> Enj.


I've heard this stated before, and it's simply not possible in an open vessel. Once it sublimates, it will not increase in temp unless you contain it. If you want to see this for your self, boil a pot of water and once it starts boiling off take the temp, keep boiling for some time and take the temp again, you can't get it to get any hotter unless you put a lid on it and seal it off like you would with a pressure cooker.


----------



## wvbeeguy (Feb 20, 2011)

very good looking, also would like to see a short video, thanks for sharing


----------



## bjamesvw (Apr 17, 2014)

It looks good! I wish someone was selling something similar to that design.


----------



## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

I built one last month that uses MAP gas. I think I'm going to try propane on it for next year. MAP is expensive, and I have several of the little Coleman bottles like you used which I can refill from my RV tanks. 

I like the small nozzle on yours, and the idea that it can be stuck into a small hole which can then be plugged. I used a piece of flattened PVC. It works well on my nucs which have a 3/4"x3" opening. Fits right in. But on the hives with the entrance reducer, it's too fat so I have to butt it up against the top of the entrance. I find that the vapor crystalizes some on the hive wood and it enters. It still works well. I just think the small tube might be better, so will play with that idea next spring.


----------



## MT204 (May 12, 2011)

enjambres said:


> Well, that's pretty nifty - especially the clever (and attractive) tubing that makes up the stand and the coil around the handle..
> 
> What data do you have about the max temps of the burn? As I understand it overheated OA degrades into formic acid, and perhaps other things.
> 
> ...


The tubing was for air flow and to try and keep things as cool as possible.
Max temps, well there are more ideas and arguments on that then there is time. 
A glow plug which is what a lot of units use gets up to about 1000 to 1200 degrees or more. As long as I keep the burner low and the bottom of the "pot" doesn't get red hot which is about 800-1200 degrees I feel I'm ok. Some info states that formic acid can not be created from OA unless done in a laboratory, so who knows?
The two lines from torch? One is for the propane the other is a wire for the igniter.


----------



## MT204 (May 12, 2011)

Harley Craig said:


> I've heard this stated before, and it's simply not possible in an open vessel. Once it sublimates, it will not increase in temp unless you contain it. If you want to see this for your self, boil a pot of water and once it starts boiling off take the temp, keep boiling for some time and take the temp again, you can't get it to get any hotter unless you put a lid on it and seal it off like you would with a pressure cooker.


I agree.


----------



## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

If you made that from scratch I want to hire you to do some fabrication work for me. 
Nice job.
Love the cordless approach.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> I've heard this stated before, and it's simply not possible in an open vessel. Once it sublimates, it will not increase in temp unless you contain it. If you want to see this for your self, boil a pot of water and once it starts boiling off take the temp, keep boiling for some time and take the temp again, you can't get it to get any hotter unless you put a lid on it and seal it off like you would with a pressure cooker.


Get out of here with your science, witch! :lpf:

I'll leave this here though:
http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=79788.0


----------



## cervus (May 8, 2016)

How much?


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I think someone is using a flawed analogy to support the statement that the sublimated OA vapor cannot be further heated unless it is in a pressurized container.

Look at post # 173 in this thread; http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...out-lega-vaporizer-unit&p=1481787#post1481787

I think Beekirk is dealing with the situation where the desired sublimed OA is decomposing. In that situation it would not be pressurized but when conveyed by hot gasses it is being superheated enough to alter its effectiveness.

The device shown here on this thread looks like the major portion of the heating air is diverted and the delivery tube has a relatively small surface area exposed to the heated air and thus prevents overheating. I think it looks quite viable!

Eventually the question of the possibility of superheating the OA to the decomposition point will be settled but there will still be some holdouts!


----------



## MT204 (May 12, 2011)

The thing that I'm running across and have been from day one when I first ran across OA on the European web sites years ago is that there is NO laboratory tests that I have been able to find to verify what really is and is not happening to OA when it over or under heated/cooked.
The one thing that I think is happening with the closed system like my is that the OA is boiling the water off and the vapor is going with it.
After a run the inside of my vessel is perfectly clean, only a very small amount of residue powder on the sides, with a few fuzzy white crystals on the end of the tube.
With the tray type systems I always had "burnt" and or "yuck" stuff left in the tray. 
Some with the heat gun systems are also haveing to tap the gun to get the OA to the bottom to vaporize.
Propane or electric I believe the closed system is the way to go.
Then again I'm not a chemical scientist.


----------



## MT204 (May 12, 2011)

Here is a video of how the vaporizer works.
https://youtu.be/NwCkPw-yCJk


----------



## wvbeeguy (Feb 20, 2011)

thanks for sharing the video, keep us updated on plans to sell


----------



## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Harley Craig said:


> Once it sublimates, it will not increase in temp unless you contain it.


Do not think the burn or boil is that complicated. Applying enough heat too fast under a pile of OA is containing it. The solid OA above acts as a blanket, not letting the heat of vaporization escape. Liquid water will allow the heat to escape.

Heating the OA uniformally allows the sublimination before the burn.

Similar to solder flux; heat a joint too fast and you get burnt flux instead of a flowing flux that cleans.


----------



## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

MT204 said:


> Here is a video of how the vaporizer works.
> https://youtu.be/NwCkPw-yCJk


That is very impressive and well done.


----------



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Look what i found:

https://youtu.be/-t9b0tGpyu0


----------



## viesest (Jul 13, 2016)

In my concept that type of vaporizer would have detachable chamber for OA. Chamber is heated, inserted in (ceramic) hole in bottom board, OA added and you are free to go.


----------



## MT204 (May 12, 2011)

I have been looking high and low to figure out a material that is somewhat heat resistant so it will not melt/burn and will not transfer the heat as to not burn your fingers when refilling and changing.
Some of the electric European vaporizers use some-sort of white material with an o-ring seal, although the electric vaporizers run at a lower temperature.
I do like the idea of inserting the vaporizer in hive, refilling the "dispenser" while it's vaporizing the hive, refilling and repeating.
As I have said before I made a device to make OA tablets. I just open lid drop in a tablet let it vaporize move onto the next and drop in another tablet.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

You see the set-up on this one? The long handle on the cap over the vaporizer cup. Looks like it would work.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oxalic-Acid...914607?hash=item1c7334a66f:g:e~wAAOSwNRdX-7XU


----------

