# beekeeping HOA restrictions question



## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

warpork...I am not positive in GA, so hopefully some GA beeks will chime in, but in Florida, HOA's rules/restrictions trump the State bee laws. Hope I am wrong for you....what a bummer. 

Wonder if the neighbors would be willing to sign a petition for them to stay. Are the hives visible? Somebody had to tell the HOA if not. Maybe not EVerybody is glad to have the bees? :scratch:


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## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

I would ask the board how your bees are an "embarassment, discomfort, annoyance, or nuisance to others" or "activities or existence in any way is noxious, dangerous, unsightly, unpleasant, or of a nature as may materially diminish or destroy the enjoyment"

It would have to be a nuisance or cause discomfort ...if your neighbors don't mind, then I don't see why according to these rules, that you would have to remove them. In fact, I would get a letter signed by all your surrounding neighbors and show this to the board. I would also mention that bees (honey bees, bumble bees, wasps) existed before you brought in bees.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

rniles said:


> I would ask the board how your bees are an "embarassment, discomfort, annoyance, or nuisance to others" or "activities or existence in any way is noxious, dangerous, unsightly, unpleasant, or of a nature as may materially diminish or destroy the enjoyment"
> 
> It would have to be a nuisance or cause discomfort ...if your neighbors don't mind, then I don't see why according to these rules, that you would have to remove them. In fact, I would get a letter signed by all your surrounding neighbors and show this to the board. I would also mention that bees (honey bees, bumble bees, wasps) existed before you brought in bees.


he would need a letter from every resident within a 2 mile radius. it would only take one to say they are afraid of being stung by bees foraging on their lawn while the home owner is mowing to put the kibosh to it, seems if a passive appeal does not work, his options would be to get rid of the bees, or move. Just can't farm in a subdivision.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

HOA rules seem to be designed to Keep out/suppress the Riff Raff. Welcome to the Riff Raff.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Tenbears said:


> he would need a letter from every resident within a 2 mile radius. it would only take one to say they are afraid of being stung by bees foraging on their lawn while the home owner is mowing to put the kibosh to it, seems if a passive appeal does not work, his options would be to get rid of the bees, or move. Just can't farm in a subdivision.


no he would just need one from every neighbor in the subdivision covered by HOA..... and unfortunately if they sent you a letter then SOMEONE has complained and the HOA has you by the short hairs, state law will not apply because it's a contract you signed in order to live there. Only way a court MIGHT protect you was if they changed it after you bought your home and you did not agree to it.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Looking for advice on how to handle this ...

Get together with your neighbors and take over the board that governs the HOA!


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## Irmo (Jan 9, 2012)

I received a similar letter from my HOA in VA. I had to move my bees. Basically the board is in place to interpret the covenants. So if they say you're in violation well then the conversation is probably not going to go your way.

In my case, I responded saying moving the bees was a little complicated, and asked for an extension to 30 days to correct the issue. They said OK.

They also had a rule that said:

Animals, livestock, poultry,reptiles, or insects of any kind, regardless of number, shall not be raised, bred or kept on any lot or in common area; except a reasonable number of orderly common household domestic pets may be kept, as long as they are not raised, bred or kept for commercial purposes. 

They added the "or insects of any kind" to the rule after my violation. I consider that my own personal rule now.


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## Karolus (Jan 17, 2013)

I would start with my immediate neighbors, confirm none of them are against your bees. Have them sign something to that affect. If any are against them, you've pretty much lost before you've begun. Then in a very non-confrontational manner approach the HOA president. Ask exactly how your bees are violating the covenant, and if you could erect a 2nd fence, install a water source, or anything to prevent having to move your bees or sue the HOA.

in the end, your choices might be sue or move yourself and the bees or just the bees.

I personally never will live in an HOA community for this sort of BS.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Most likely it was indeed one of your neighbors who turned you in. They tell you to your face that they don't mind bees, then turn you in to the HOA board and let them deal with what they see as a problem.

You can come up with lots of great arguments on why the bees aren't a problem and why you should be allowed to keep them, but, unfortunately, the language "_in the Board's judgement_" means they pretty much can do whatever they want about the bees. Sorry to say.

Moving into a neighborhood where a committee of busy-bodies determines how you live your life is unthinkable, to me.

JMHO


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## PNWBees (May 3, 2013)

The HOA doesn't control what goes on inside the house right? Just move the hives inside (like an observation hive).  Problem solved.

Or get enough of your neighbors to vote for a change in the CCRs.

Or find a friend who wouldn't mind letting you keep your hives in their non HOA property and move your hives there.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

If push comes to shove, and you have to move your hives, shake them out and remove the boxes and let them live in the neighbors attic LOL


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

My vote is for an observation hive. I have friends that in HOAs and from what i have gathered, it is not at all an environment that is suitable for me. I hope you can get it resolved in a manner that pleases both you and the board. Hopefully, they are jsut cioncerned about them being an "eyesore" and you can simply go to observation hives...whether you observe them or not. when they are inside your walls, others are less likely to comment.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Are you allowed garden sheds? Move them wait a few weeks get a shed ( if allowed) and put the hives inside the shed with entrances to the outside pointing away from your neighbors....


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Actually you should *probably *just do it. You bought a house in this neighborhood for your own reasons - as did your neighbors for theirs. Sorry, they may be unreasonable busy bodies, but this is the bed you have chosen to make your home in. You could make a big stink, and fight it as long as possible, but you will probably lose - you certainly won't be able to hide keeping a hive of bees. If you try you are likely to make an of yourself and reflect badly on your peers - and probably tick off your wife in the process.

Next time think long and hard before you buy into a community with an HOA.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Go before the board and use recent UF research to demonstrate how managed bees displace dangerous unpleasant insects like Africanized bees which Georgia does have now. If you can even hint that they will be promoting a dangerous incident by condonng Africanized bees you might have a chance.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...g-or-encouraging-beekeeping-in-urban-settings


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## imthegrumpyone (Jun 29, 2013)

HOA"s hmmm, I hate to say you have a two faced neighbor, or the HOA's busybody's neighbor hood watch person was in your yard, in which I don't think they're aloud to do without your permission. Don't know about your laws but you'll have to get signatures from all your "good" neighbors and there friends in the neighbor hood and take to HOA, I wish you all the luck, they've been known to loose a few battles, they don't win all of them. They are no mater where "to big for there britches" and have there noses in things that don't concern them or your subdivision. Most of the time the run down houses, uncared for lawns, cars, trucks and junk all over the property and people running businesses out of there house goes untouched. Go figure, just don't roll over.


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## cdevier (Jul 17, 2010)

There's nothing better than owning your own acreage !


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

Harley Craig said:


> Are you allowed garden sheds? Move them wait a few weeks get a shed ( if allowed) and put the hives inside the shed with entrances to the outside pointing away from your neighbors....


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## ginkgo (Apr 26, 2013)

I'd talk to immediate neighbors, seeking honest feedback. Is your having bees actually "bugging" anybody? I'd then weigh respect for neighbors / covenants with how much you want to keep the bees. If neighbors are supportive and it's really worth it to you, I would consult an attorney, as there may be issues such as other unenforced covenants in your neighborhood, which if they persist long enough could make the covenants unenforceable. Or the covenants may be poorly written in a way that gives you a loophole. I would have my attorney write the board for specific evidence or examples of exactly how your bees are noxious, a nuisance, etc. Sometimes, just pushing back can work. This may not be a big enough issue for the HOA that they would actually go forward with a lawsuit. But I would not disrespect the wishes of any immediate neighbors. I have neighbors disrespecting covenants (and zoning) in a major way... not fun.


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## Davacoles (Jun 30, 2013)

If you don't comply what are the consequences? What redress and access does the HOA have under the covenants? For example, could they move them via a contractor and bill you if you don't move them. My point being, unless you are planning on moving sometime soon, you could ignore them, let the fine you (usual redress), put a lean on the property, and just deal with it when you sell years from now. But, who do you like more, your bees or your neighbors?

Other option is to lawyer up. Have a lawyer friend formulate a response. If you are in a small HOA you could probably negotiate keeping the bees this way. Capitulate via some ideas noted by others (fence, water source, education, etc). A lawyer should be able to argue there is no active violation based on the wording and you have an implicit right to the enjoyment of your own home and property.


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## warpork (Apr 24, 2012)

So I talked to most of my immediate neighbors, the ones who were home anyways, and they all signed a document saying that the beekeeping in my backyard did not cause "embarassment, discomfort, annoyance, or nuisance to others" as the board might seem to think.

I am going to go talk to the local HOA person who sent the letter in the morning to ask why the board feels this way, and as she is not a board member, ask for a meeting with the board to find out how we can resolve this issue, as our covenants allow. If we cannot come up with a solution, which I think we will once I am able to educate the board on honey bees, we will move on to mediation as specified in the covenants. I have already printed out a novel worth of information from different states, counties, universities, etc, which show that keeping bees in a "urban" setting (which by the way this is not, we are out in the country) is neither "noxious, dangerous, unsightly, unpleasant, or of a nature as may materially diminish or destroy the enjoyment" of our community. I am firmly of the opinion that the evidence I have will show the exact opposite of what they are saying I am violating in section 3 as I posted originally.

As to what are the penalties, that's a great question. According to the covenants, those are supposed to be listed in the original notice of violating the use restrictions. Of course, there was nothing listed in the notice.

Of course, I will also go in with a jar of honey. Sometimes those work miracles.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I think the reality of it is they will say the rules are in place for a reason, if they allow you to keep bees even though your neighbors do not mind, this could set up a precedence that could force them to allow others to keep bees who have neighbors who do mind. 

if you don't mind the commute you are welcome to put them on our 700 acres!


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Why does everyone set out to fight the HOAs. Seriously, you received a copy of the bylaws before the sale went final. Saw this all the time on Backyard Chicken when I used to hang out there. All kinds of daft ways to keep chickens against the regulations that they agreed to before moving in. 

That said, I don't live in an HOA. I don't live in the city. But, I have a posh subdivision right out my backdoor. And they can't stand my 4x roosters.  Shoot.. I can't stand 3x of them.. Once they're bigger.. BBQ. 

Chances are your HOA will require your shed to be brick (if your home is) and to match your house. Regulations are a PITA and you must follow them. If you build and they dislike it, they have the right by law to force you to remove it.

But, like others have said, you might be able to get away with an observation hive. Though I wouldn't count on it.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Harley Craig said:


> If push comes to shove, and you have to move your hives, shake them out and remove the boxes and let them live in the neighbors attic LOL


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

PNWBees said:


> The HOA doesn't control what goes on inside the house right?


Most do. I would say just move the hives. It is only a matter of time to when the hives become a real headache to you. Did you really expect not to have an objection to the hive in an HOA?


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

DarkWolf said:


> Why does everyone set out to fight the HOAs. Seriously, you received a copy of the bylaws before the sale went final. Saw this all the time on Backyard Chicken when I used to hang out there. All kinds of daft ways to keep chickens against the regulations that they agreed to before moving in.


I saw the same on that site, too. In many (but not all) instances, the owner knew about the covenant but knowingly went against it anyway. In other cases, the full covenant was not provided at or prior to the closing, nor was it mentioned, but it was referred to on one of the 100+ pages of closing papers. Signing those papers indicated a binding consent to abide by the bylaws of the HOA. 

I do not know the particulars in this instance, but I wish the OP the best possible luck. I have my own views on HOAs and I'll keep them to myself, since it really isn't important what I think and because I am not a lawyer. I will say that many folk believe an important part of being a beekeeper (or chicken keeper) is animal husbandry. It is still possible to be a good beek even if hives are in an out apiary, if it comes to that.

Again, best of luck to OP


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## SallyD (Mar 12, 2011)

KPeacock said:


> My vote is for an observation hive. I have friends that in HOAs and from what i have gathered, it is not at all an environment that is suitable for me. I hope you can get it resolved in a manner that pleases both you and the board. Hopefully, they are jsut cioncerned about them being an "eyesore" and you can simply go to observation hives...whether you observe them or not. when they are inside your walls, others are less likely to comment.


How can you have an observation hive in the house...how do they come and go?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> How can you have an observation hive in the house...how do they come and go?

The short answer is you need a hole in the wall or window.  There are several possible approaches that are minimally damaging to the house. Here's one:









Photo linked from: http://cheapbeekeeping.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/diy-observation-hive/

Note that the hole for the pipe is drilled through an added board, not the window frame itself.


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## CesarBeeCool (Apr 11, 2011)

I wouldn't think you could win on this one, not even an observation hive. All they have to say is they have to represent everyone in the HOA not just a few who agree on opposing a bylaw. It could open up all kinds of issues for the board down the road with others who want to do other things outside the rules. Tough situation, but hopefully you can find a neighbor or farmer who wants bees on their property, I wouldn't think it would be too hard to find some other place. Good luck.


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## SallyD (Mar 12, 2011)

Let us know how it works out. I lived in Marietta GA and kept bees in my backyard. I had a privacy fence and told no one about the bees. What they didn't know didn't hurt them...then my bees swarmed twice in my neighbors yard. I have since moved and live in another HOA and have decided not to keep the bees there. I have to keep them at a remote location and I really miss them. I wish you all the best.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

You can try and fight the boards interpretation of the by law. But, I would also line up a spot to move the bees to just in case. Surely there is someone right outside of town who would love to host a few hives at their place. Start by looking for a place with really good bee forage and then try and find someone with garden that lives close.


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## warpork (Apr 24, 2012)

Well, just received a letter back from the HOA regarding the mountain of evidence I left at their office and my letter stating I disagreed that I was violating the covenants. This included the Georgia Bee laws, specifically stating (paraphrasing here) no form of government shall impeede a person from keeping bees in their backyard, legal definitions of the words that were in the sections I was supposidly violating, ie the activity was noxious, then all kinds of articles stating how honey bees and beekeeping were in fact the exact opposite of those legal definitions. Of course there were all kinds of articles stating how people confuse wasps/hornets/yellow jackets etc with honey bees, articles on various municiplalites and cities allowing beeking within city limits, and all kind of other things....it was about a full ream of printed paper I dropped off. I then highlited all relevant parts of the articles for their reference. I also had signed letters from my neighbors saying how they loved having the bees there. I topped it off by leaving a pint of fresh extremely local honey for them to try.

They came back and said it was ok if I keep bees in the backyard and their only stipulation was from the architeture comittee saying I needed to keep the hives in a athetically pleasing and well maintained state.

Good stuff!!!!:applause:


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Score one for the lil' guy. So, pristine white and garden covers it is, then, eh?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Congratulations!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Cool. Doing it right pays off sometimes.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm very glad to hear that this worked out in your favor! Congrats.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> their only stipulation was from the architeture comittee saying I needed to keep the hives in a athetically pleasing and well maintained state.

:thumbsup: Congratulations on having your efforts rewarded! You may want to see if placing a fence (visual barrier) around your hive area is acceptable.


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## imthegrumpyone (Jun 29, 2013)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:, all they need is to be put in there place at times. HOAs started out with good intentions and than went amok, they have gotten to big for there britches, they're also not 100% on a lot of there regulations. I jump for joy any time the lil'guy sets them straight.


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## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

warpork said:


> They came back and said it was ok if I keep bees in the backyard and their only stipulation was from the architeture comittee saying I needed to keep the hives in a athetically pleasing and well maintained state.


Woot! Woot! Nice to see the little guy win one!! I love your Georgia beekeeping laws!


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

Congrats on your win.

Last time I bought a house I told the realtor "Nothing with a homeowner's association. I want a house that *I* own, where I can do what I want where I want it."

Moving out into the county was the best thing I ever did.


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## Margali (Jul 20, 2013)

Edymnion said:


> Last time I bought a house I told the realtor "Nothing with a homeowner's association. I want a house that *I* own, where I can do what I want where I want it."


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
I have a 40 minute commute instead of a 5 minute commute just for this reason. I'm on BYC and have chickens. First step in house hunting was ruling out entire towns that wouldn't allow bees or chickens. Had seller back out of deal on house when they noted clause "any HOA disclosed after signing nullifies contract. Buyer will be refunded all closing costs and ownership of property will revert to seller." Apparently they had an evil HOA that they were trying to hide.


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## CesarBeeCool (Apr 11, 2011)

That is really amazing! Congratulations.


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