# Need opinions on the Honey Super Cell frames



## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Hello all,
What do y'all think of the HSC frames? Do they work well? Have you had any problems with them? Does anyone else sell them besides Simpson's Bee Supply? Thanks for the input!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Once they are accepted and being used they are great. You have to limit them to no where else to go but the HSC and then it takes them about two weeks to accept them. I think Lapps has them as well as Simpson's. You can get 4.9mm right off with Mann Lake PF100s (or PF120s for mediums) and it's cheaper and they accept it better. But it's not as permanent. It's nice to have comb that the small hive beetles and wax moths can't touch.


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## ChickenChaser (Jun 6, 2009)

I've been considering starting a colony on HSC for the sole purpose of getting them to draw _foundationless frames_ that I would put between the HSC brood frames. My assumption is 

1) the foundationless would be quickly accepted under normal circumstances.

2) the "fully drawn" HSC would be a perfect guide for the foundationless frames.

I would think both would apply to using PF100/120 between HSC as well. Am I over-thinking this? Or more likely...UNDER-THINKING? 

Ideally, one could go with all HSC. I'm not to that point...and a few frames HCS would be in my budget. 

WBK - I hope this would be relevant to your thread. Thanks.

CC


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## Splorndle (Jul 15, 2011)

I used them for the first time this year. My only problem? Uncapping them. The bees cap the honey and it is impossible to remove the caps with the knife. The scaper doesnt really work well either.

Anyone here have a technique to uncap them?


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Hey splorndle,
I was wondering the exact same thing. It's one of my main concerns, actually.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> You have to limit them to no where else to go but the HSC and then it takes them about two weeks to accept them.


Is it healthy in the long run for the colony to only have the space between frames to raise drones? Should a sacrificial drone frame be used on the outside of the brood nest?


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Try uncapping it with a heat gun/blow drier. I have been using it for 3 years and totally agree with Michael, slow to get started but once they do it will be wall to wall...the only con I see with it...The side bars are the same size all the way down giving the bees LOTS of room for propolis and making them harder to get out/separated.


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

when foundationless is next to hsc the bees draw really thich cell walls matqching the cell walls on the hsc so while the cells for the worker brood will be small you don't get the advantage of the brood density. They will also avoid the hsc in favor of foundationless until the hsc is well used.

Get the pf 100's...much easier with faster results.

Ramona


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

HSC will melt at 220 F. I would not use a heat gun or any kind of heated knife. If the caps are below the surface you will need a Hackler Honey Punch or equivalent. Seems like I saw an equivalent at Walter T. Kelley. I have the Hackler version.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Are you saying the bees don't draw this comb out at all? Another thing that is puzzling me is if this is just for the brood what is the concern to remove the honey?


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## blueskydixon (Jul 9, 2011)

I put in some hsc & plastic frames earlier this year when the nectar flow was on. The bees in one hive have used the hsc easily and also the rite cell. In another hive I've had difficulties getting them to use hsc (except for pollen), and the queen is restricted to 1 deep. This hive also won't draw out the black plastic frame correctly, it is very frustrating. I also left wooden foundationless frames in each box at the outside edges for their choice of cell sizes.


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## blueskydixon (Jul 9, 2011)

hsc in use


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

I may be the only one, but I hate the stuff. bought 40 frames a few years back and the only thing they seem to be good for is filling with feed. To darn heavy! costly, some queens will never use them, cant extract worth a damm (uncapping and weight issues) and not sure how you would ever clean out old cacoons.. (maybe powerwash? which I suspect would be a wet mess trying to make sure each cell was clean) how many you want?? only thing I use them for anymore is emergency foundation for a swarm....


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## blueskydixon (Jul 9, 2011)

gmcharlie - my understanding is it is used to regress bees. I'm not sure I thought about using it all the time...


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

gmcharlie said:


> I may be the only one, but I hate the stuff. bought 40 frames a few years back and the only thing they seem to be good for is filling with feed. To darn heavy! costly, some queens will never use them, cant extract worth a damm (uncapping and weight issues) and not sure how you would ever clean out old cacoons.. (maybe powerwash? which I suspect would be a wet mess trying to make sure each cell was clean) how many you want?? only thing I use them for anymore is emergency foundation for a swarm....


They do a great job regressing bees if you put a package on only hsc and don't give the queen other options. _There is a delay as the bees don't like it when it's new but once it is used, most colonies accept it and you can use it over and over again.

I don't generally extract from hsc but use capped frames as food for nucs or hungry hives or to give real food to a new package.

Once the frames are used you can mix them with pf 100's kr foundationless but again, if the foundationless is next to the hsc they make thick cell walls to match the positioning of the cells on the hsc.

As far az cleaning, if they are really moldy I just wash them in a slop sink or tub with hot water then put them out to dry in the sun. The bees do a fine job of general cleaning and dealkng with cocoons.

We use a lot of pf 100's now but I still appreciate all the pf 100's we have and still use them in the core of the broodnest or as feed on the perifery.

Ramona


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

Also forgot to mention...the hsc is really easy to fill with feed, especially honey. I can easily smoosh crystallized honey into the cells with a spatula if _I need to feed a hive and don't have frames of capped honey available. Also easy to get liquid feed into the cells...no tender wax to collapse.

Ramona


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

fully understand what its use was for, I know there are some who swear by it. But regressed bees in hives you cant move, foundation you cant extract clean or other wise do normal thing with is of no use. 
3 years of trying and Regressed bees did nothing for me. small bees, have done no better than large ones in my yards......


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

gmcharlie said:


> I hate the stuff. bought 40 frames a few years back.


Do you have the white, Chinese made HSC?

If so, how many would you like to sell?


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Nope, its black, can't even recall where I got it anymore. PM me if your interested, A cpl frames are in hives, but most are sitting in empty supers


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I am wondering that if you were to use them for honey instead of the brood nest, why couldn't you space 8 or 9 frames in a 10 frame box and have the bees draw it out extra, and then you have the ability to uncap. Does this make sense? I'm just wondering.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Its a great theory, so far it hasen't worked for me.... for some reason they want to stop pretty close to the molded surface. I also not almost no bridge comb, even when you screw with the spacing....


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Forcing bees to accept something they don't prefer is not a method that is healthy IMO. What are all the young bees going to do with their wax? I even feel it is important to provide some foundation or let them build some of their own comb when the hive is expanding. Are any of these frames used in a commercial apiary? Is there an uncapping machine suited for these frames? What is the plan if disease is found?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird,

The op was asking for opinions of HSC from members who have experience with the product. 

If you don't have experience with the product and you have a myriad of your own questions to ask, I suggest you start a myriad of your own threads...

Or buy some Honey Super Cell and perhaps form an experience-based opinion.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Topic:
*Need opinions on the Honey Super Cell frames*
First response:


> Once they are accepted and being used they are great. You have to limit them to no where else to go but the HSC and then it takes them about two weeks to accept them.


Second response:


> I've been considering starting a colony on HSC for the sole purpose of getting them to draw foundationless frames that I would put between the HSC brood frames.


You the new moderator that has to have things your way?


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

i like it for Brooding, check out my photobucket


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Velbert, not sarcasm, but what have you gained? so far none of the real scientific studies have shown any benifit? why bother with the hassles???


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

gmcharlie said:


> Velbert, not sarcasm, but what have you gained? so far none of the real scientific studies have shown any benifit? why bother with the hassles???


After several years of our untreated large cell bees dying each year we finally gained bees that survived that we could begin breeding from. We also gained reusable comb for regressing subsequent packages that we requeen with queens we raise from our survivor stock.

I personally don't care what the scientific studies say when I'm working my healthy, live bees. 

Honey super cell was the product we used with great results. We now use pf100's in addition as we have more bees now and not enough used hsc to go around. Pf 100's are a lot cheaper and the bees accept them readily. We also use a lot of foundationless comb but only AFTER the bees are regressed.

Ramona


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

so your only running regressed, and not both??


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