# Do you wear a respirator when vaporizing oxalic acid?



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Do you wear a respirator when vaporizing oxalic acid?

A simple anonymous yes or no. Feel free to discuss if so desired.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

How many of the non-users are smokers too? Any time you inhale an acid you create scar tissue in your lungs. It is permanent, and accumulative. Sometimes once the formation starts it is progressive.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

How much acid would the non-users be inhaling? Is there any way to quantify that? I don't even see vapors in probably 19 out of 20 vaporizations... I my hive bodies are in good shape (for now) and I seal any cracks or openings well. 
Are these filter cartridges good for more than one use? My impression with anything filtering is that once used, it continues to break down the filter rendering it useless after one use? Perhaps that's a different kind of filter though. I'm genuinely curious.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

JW can you smell the acid? If you cannot then what you are getting is minimal. From my experience with organic vapor cartridges they are good for more than one use, but it all depends on how much exposure they get. If I spray with the wind going away from me then the cartridges will last longer. If the wind shifts, and it blows toward me the function of the cartridge will be compromised quickly. Usually the recommendation for lower toxicity fumes is use the cartridge until you get a faint smell breaking through. 
I have scarred lungs from an autoimmune problem. It is not fun, and I am minimally impacted. I worked with a guy who had a lot of damage from acid fumes from cleaning radiators. He was an invalid that could manage a slow walk for short distances.


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## mgstei1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Nope.
I stay upwind or cross wind.
1 snoot full and thats all it took. I want to also know if im in it so I can move. 
If it is dead still which early morning and at dusk there often times is no wind at all. I will wear one.

And how those bees take it is beyond me. They act like nothing is even going on.


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

I generally don't and based on the previous post about which filter to use I was wasting my time and filter then. The only times I have smelled vapor is when I have tested the unit. Every once and a while I will give it a try outside the hive to make sure it is working correctly or if the battery needs a charge. I have been too close a time or two and gotten a whiff, now when testing I use a mask. Even with a mask I try to stay out of the vapor. When treating hives I plug it in and walk away. I'll come back in 4 to 5 minutes and unplug it and walk away. I return in 6 to 8 minutes pull the unit out and move to the next hive. By then any vapor left I guess is trapped in the upper part of the box and I don't notice it but then I don't take the top off either.

The filter from 3M and I'm others do have a life once opened. Whether being use or not they are still doing their thing. I put mine in a zip lock with as much air taken out as possible to extend their life. If I don't reuse them with in 3 months I pitch them and open a new pack. I use mine for spraying lacquer, furniture, and occasionally automotive paint.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Are you guys, _nuts?_

Of course, you should use a respirator with acid gas cartridges!

And I think it is highly irresponsible to encourage or condone, even passively by example, the idea that one doesn't.

Sooner or later we're going to read about some hapless soul who thought she or he could get away with not using a respirator and who has permanent, irreversible lung damage. You know, the kind that leaves you tethered to an oxygen bottle and fighting for every breath for the rest of what sounds to me like a pretty miserable life. And doubly so because it is an avoidable and well-publicized risk.

Yes, the cartridges are good for more than one use. 

I use a respirator every single time, without fail. 

What's smoking got to do with it? I never have done that. The main breathing risk I have is having been a volunteer firefighter doing interior attack. Of course I wore a mask doing that, too. But just being around active fires, including brush fires, still exposes you to more smoke than the average person.

Enjambres


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I use my smoker to tell me which way the wind is moving, stay upwind. Have never gotten a good whiff of the vapors. I do get some residual smell when I'm cleaning the vaporizers between hives but not enough to make me cough.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Every older beekeeper I know has a bad back and arthritic fingers. The next generation is going to have these problems too plus pulmonary fibrosis and COPD.
Enjambres the same mentality that smokes also engages in other respiratory risks.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I got one whiff about 8 - 9 years ago when I first started using OAV and realized how potent the stuff is. I've been using a respirator ever since, every time. I still note which way the wind is blowing and stay upwind as much as possible to steer clear of any escaping vapor which might land on my skin, eyes, or clothes. There is a reason a respirator is a required piece of PPE with the vaporization instructions.

"IF" there is cumulative damage to the organs over time from repeated minor exposure I won't be one that is paying the price. Could it be possible that one might be inhaling or absorbing through the skin very low amounts of the vapor and not really know it? 

Yes, it's inconvenient, but my health is more important to me than a little bit of inconvenience. It "may be" overkill and unnecessary, but that's OK with me. Better safe than sorry is my way of thinking. I don't like taking risks with my health.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

I don't use one either. Much like photobiker I turn it on and walk away. In 2min 30 sec I return holding my breath, turn off the power and run away. I use a charge pack so the off switch is 6 or 7 feet from the hive between the packs cables and the cable on the varrox. I wait 6 to 10 mins then return to do the next. Seems to work, I've never had any problems yet... smart/safe move would probably be to wear a respirator.


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## bsharp (Feb 5, 2013)

enjambres said:


> Are you guys, _nuts?_
> 
> Of course, you should use a respirator with acid gas cartridges!
> 
> And I think it is highly irresponsible to encourage or condone, even passively by example, the idea that one doesn't.


Agreed! I haven't used any treatments in the past 2 years, but I did OAV 3 years ago and will probably do so in the future if necessary. I wore a mask then, and I'll certainly wear one in the future if I need to (in fact, I'll upgrade to one that protects eyes as well so I don't have to wear a set of goggles that may or may not make a good seal with the respirator on...).

Don't cut corners with your health--you only get one life, why take the risk?


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Another strong probability if enough do not follow regulations the government will make it tougher to use. Our lives are full of these regulations, and intrusions.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I have used a respirator half of the time roughly. I never smelled the vapors then... And do not without either. I play the wind and walk away, don't open it for 3 or 4+ minutes before I slowly pull the vaporizer out. The one time I smelled it was an open air trial run to check the timing. Statistically I am astronomically more likely to die in a car wreck on the way to or from one of my beeyards than to suffer any lasting damage from OAV.

I would probably be one of the most risk averse people you'd know. I do not walk with my keys in my hand to prevent dropping them down a parking lot drain. I wear ear plugs and safety glasses when I push mow my lawn. I just don't see risk involved with the way I do my OAV. Especially not for my possible exposure levels with just 10 hives or so. I would certainly tell any new beekeeper to wear one. 

I started the poll out of curiosity... I am actually going to order the correct cartridge as the one I originally bought for another project isn't the right one... And I still never smelled it.


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## CardsBees (May 14, 2013)

I have used an N95 mask but not consistently. I hold my breath, know the wind direction, and stand away. Outdoors, with such discretion, the risk is honestly minimal. However if I had pulmonary disease I would be more cautious.


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## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

Sometimes. Depends on the wind and the humidity.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

I play the wind also. Put me down as no.


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## ritan1 (Nov 10, 2015)

Just a newbee here, but use the 3M 8576 with valve. It does not have cartridges but is rated P95 and rated for acid gas.


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## billabell (Apr 19, 2010)

I wear a face mask N95 (I think that is the designation). Got a whiff once w/o the mask will not happen again. I am amazed it doesn't seem to rile the bees up.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Tough to wear one with a beard. And to use one correctly you are supposed to do fit and sniff tests. Or that is how they did training years ago. 

Will probably get one when I start treating.


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## kramerbryan (Oct 30, 2013)

I don't. This thread has convinced me to. Thanks.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

They still do the fit and sniff test.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

I use a respirator every time. It's much safer (and much easier) than trying to hold your breath and stay up wind of the vapors.


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## Paulemar (Aug 28, 2013)

I don't! I have a beard & my mask won't seal very well. I got a small wiff of the OA the first time I used the vaporizer & that was the last time. I do use my smoker to indicate wind direction and hold my breath when near the hive for removing the vaporizer. Relying on the mask to protect me, with the beard, if the mask could leak is probably more risky than just being extremely careful. I'm going to make a long custom extension cord using 12 gauge wire so that I can start & stop power to the vaporizer from a distance. That will eliminate a good bit of the problem as I can be 50+ feet away most of the time. I can hold my breath for the short time that I'll be removing the vaporizer from the hive. You can always just disconnect power & wait for everything to cool off and the vapors are no longer an issue. Of course it will take longer to treat if you have more than a few hives.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

e-spice said:


> I use a respirator every time. It's much safer (and much easier) than trying to hold your breath and stay up wind of the vapors.



Smart beekeeper!


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

All you tough guys who think watching the wind and trying to out fox the circumstances.
Let me tell you about a tough young fellow who was bulletproof, or so he thought! Bravely he lead his troops into jungles that had recently been sprayed with defoliant, They were the toughest, most highly trained special forces our military had to offer at the time. Today without exception everyone in that platoon has without fail developed cancer. 80% of them have died from it. Please be safe and wear a respirator with acid filter cartridges. Cool and dead is still dead!


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## Ranger518 (May 25, 2015)

Use the wind. It's a no.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

e-spice said:


> I use a respirator every time. It's much safer (and much easier) than trying to hold your breath and stay up wind of the vapors.


I did not the first two vaporizing sessions. I used the smoker to show wind direction and worked the hives in an upwind direction. I never really noticed getting a whiff but had a really bad headache after both days and I almost never get headaches. I was able to notice the pattern right away. Did my vaporizing again last week with the mask and guess what? No headache. Save your lungs and get the respirator. You are worth the money.


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

I have a 15 ' cord on my vaporizer. I place it in the hive, throw a towel over the entrance , connect the battery and walk away. When vapors come out I disconnect the battery wait a minute. I walk over and remove the towel and place the end in water. I worry that the steam has some vapor in it. Biggest issue I have is if it can go wrong eventually will. I need to find a respirator that I'm comfortable is effective, and fits under my bee suit


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