# Thoughts on thymol



## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Hey Mike,

I treat with thymol in 1:1 in the spring BEFORE I put my supers on and then again after they are off, but from reading Randy Olivers test with the strips and from the manufacture they say it is safe and won't get into the supers.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Don't use thymol on a flow. It will contaminate your honey I.e.- it will impart a flavour to your honey.

Jean-Marc


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

never heard of thymol strips, and NEVER put meds on anywhere near a honey flow...But I think formic acid can be used almost right up to a flow, HBH is a feed stimulant not a miticide and sugar dusting is sugar..I would put HBH on my tongue as well as powdered sugar, but I wouldn't put straight thymol in my mouth so wouldn't want it in my honey...I thin the safest would be Formic..my 2cnts


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

You know Jean-Marc I was thinking the same thing because thymol has a very strong scent. They say the strips(quick strips which just received Fed. approval) can be used with supers on, but I am not sure I would risk that taste getting into my supers. Maybe test it out on some Mike to see before adding to them all.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

if you need to treat now, i would go with a formic flash treatment. 24 hours and you are done. Supers can be removed for treatment and then reapplied the next day. If you have to much space, the formic does not works well enough

This treatment will shut the queen down for a few days. I noticed a 3-4 day shut down.
Queens which are weak or older +2 years, might not make the treatment.

Out of 40 hives, lost three or 5 queens. I think three. When i went to check on them on day 5 after the treatment, they were already building cells which told me they already new the queen was poor before i put the treatment on.

The flash treatment is fast, and works really quick. I put the formic on a blue shop towel, placed on a cardboard and slid in the bottom. I put it on in the morning and removed in the afternoon the next day. Our temps were around the 20 mark. If your temps are over 24-25 C i would recommend a later afternoon, evening treatment
When you pull out the cardboard the next day...all i could say was wow, that was alot of mites.
I used 75 ml which is 75 cc's. Depending on your temps, you could get away with 45-60 mls if you are much hotter.

http://www.apinovar.com/articles/flash.en.html

you might have to do a google translate for this page


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Well I have a bunch of thymol strips sitting here at the house....

mike


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

USE THEM!!!! We use the "blue bucket" (apiguard) and have had good results with thymol. I did learn to rotate it out as part of IPM management. The mites, regardless of what is said, do seem to build resistance to it, like any other chemical. So alternate with some other "soft" chemical like the new formic strips. We used the apiguard at the end of July. By doing so, we knocked the peak off the mites build up. It was between the Chineses tallow flow and the Cotton flow. TED


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...just saw Dr. Fell (Virginia Tech) give a talk on some of their research at our county club. Thymol negatively affected drone fertility in their data.

deknow


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Got to thinking, is thymol much different then using HBH? I mean they are both essential oils. Using that logic, if someone thinks that HBH is not a treatment, would thymol also fall into that category? 

mike


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...I think 'what constitutes a treatment" is a different thread, but you answered your own question with your first post. You are talking about treating your hive(s) with thymol in order to deal with a mite issue. If you are looking for some "out" to describe this treatment as "not treating", you are simply playing word games.

deknow


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Got to thinking, is thymol much different then using HBH? I mean they are both essential oils. Using that logic, if someone thinks that HBH is not a treatment, would thymol also fall into that category?
> 
> mike


Thymol is super strong where has HBH has drops
per gallon. I've used thymol for years and that
smell will permeate everything.... It;ll make your
nose hairs stand up!

I'm with honeyshack and formic would be on my
list..... Just sayin...


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I know what you mean sundance, I rode in the truck with it for a few hours and had to put it in the bed before I started having some type of reaction. 
I would go with formic, but have like 40 sticks of this stuff. 
Deknow you are right. Trying to justify it in my mind. Don't wanna do it!

mike


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Thymol 101: Don't carry it in the cab even in a sealed bag.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Jim it did not exactly come with instructions 
Did not want it to fly out due to my driving skills. 
Sinuses cleared, dad was mad, get the picture? Got in the bowels of the a/c of the truck...still blowing that nasty smell out.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

So close to a flow, do you really want to risk the contamination of thymol with honey?
The strips keep. My guess is, if you really need to treat now, you should knock them back so they get through the flow. Then when the flow stops, or fall hits, which ever comes first..use the thymol to finish the treatment.
The flash treatment is more of a stop gap measure buying you time until you get to a treatment stage.
Clear as mud?


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

So what are you saying is good to use? 
Basically I have these strips so that when the inspector comes on monday and says "you need to treat" then I can just say, here are some strips that I will put in while you are here. Need something that he will not think is Hoekis Poekis I need to pass this inspection. 

mike


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

I "assume" you are calling api var life strips, but the web site calls them wafers, sorry I thought there was yet again another mite treatment out there I hadn't heard of.... seriously don't use them during a flow or your honey will taste like Listerine, been there done that with Api Guard, formic would be my vote....


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

> ...or your honey will taste like Listerine


...so quadruple the price and sell it as "Manuka"!:lpf:

deknow


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I used apiguard last fall and the smell was very strong. I could smell it 100 feet from the hive. On warm days the bees bearded heavily while the apiguard was on.

One side effect that caused problems for my hives is I applied after I pulled the supers around Labor Day. The queen stopped laying for a couple weeks. Nice brood cycle break but the break happened in the middle of winter bee development. The hive went into winter with a below average population and died in early January. In January I was still seeing mite drop above what it should be in winter.

I treated three hives. Two died this winter. The last one is doing great with a VERY large late winter cluster of 7-8 frames of bees. The queen has been laying since late january. I pull the IPM board out every week or so and I have not seen a mite all winter. That hive is virtually mite free.

Off topic. That hive was a 2010 package and rejected two queens and turned into laying workers. I did a 200ft shake out and requeened with a southern bred Italian. She came with attendents. I placed the queen int he hive with both corks still in for 4 days. Then I removed the candy end cork and let them get her out. She made it out and they accepter her. It took awhile to get going because of the lack of brood for 3 weeks. By falls end they had low mite counts and low populations. I was betting they would not make it. She layed well into the fall. Much longer than the other hives.

Thier populations are so high that I might make a split in May. Go figure!


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Like I said, I have like a bunch of this stuff, and will only use it if the *inspector wants me to* I am not shopping for a perfect treatment! Just need something to squeak by!

mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I do not need to use it. Only found one mite in 5-6 hives, including some stuffed with drones. 
mike


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## Lauren (Jun 10, 2010)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Jim it did not exactly come with instructions
> Did not want it to fly out due to my driving skills.
> Sinuses cleared, dad was mad, get the picture? Got in the bowels of the a/c of the truck...still blowing that nasty smell out.


at least now you won't get mites


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

honeyshack said:


> I put the formic on a blue shop towel, placed on a cardboard and slid in the bottom."


The way I read your words it sounds like you put the formic in the front entrance?

I thought formic was heavier then air, so placed on top of the frames the fumes would drop to the bottom thereby reaching all bees on the way down. To me it would be more effective...I think I will check your link to see...maybe this is a different technique then the 24 hour treatment I am aware of.


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## Rob Renneker (Aug 7, 2006)

I used to kind of like the smell of thyme (the herb) and we occasionally used it for cooking....that is until I started using API Life Var on those warm late August days...Needless to say, thyme is no longer in our spice drawer.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Rob-Your uncle sent me home with like 40 strips of it in a "sealed bag". Like I said earlier I stuck it in the cab to keep it from flying out. We we got to the next place we were stopping we just stuck it behind the syrup barrel.....that smells now too. When we got home I stuck it in a large storage closet, and you have to kinda run in and get what you need before you choke....probably should not operate heavy machinery after getting near that stuff.....

The one mite was according to the state inspector, so in reality i do not need to do anything...the ones with high counts are getting decimated on Wednesday....

mike


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## Rob Renneker (Aug 7, 2006)

Ya, it certainly does have a distinctive smell doesn't it! I've had fairly good luck with it as long as the weather cooperates. It seems like if it's too hot out the bees get a little overexposed to the stuff and do some funky things, and if it's too cool out it isn't very effective. I think ideal temperatures are in the 70-80 degree range. I don't think I would ever use it during a flow, though. I just wouldn't risk getting that smell in my honey. I think it's a reasonably good "soft" treatment to use after honey pulling is done, though.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Those strips sound exactly like "thymomite". It's a great product. You might have to watch the temperatures when you apply it. If it's really hot and you still have to do what you have to do, try cutting the strips in half. I've not done this myself in high temperatures but I have on smaller hives. It's a bit hard on the queens. The bees tend to move their broodnest away from the strips. The strips are laid at the back of the hives on top of the frames.

The nice advantage with formic acid is that there are many ways to apply it. Unfortunately for american beekeepers you arte being limited to applying it one way. In Canada it can be applied in meat soaker pads. You can also use a flash treatment a la Jean-Pierre Chapleau method. It's essentially a screened bottom board and the formic is applied in a paper towel. The bottom board has a slight lip in it to prevent the formic fumes from spilling out the front. There is the flash method from above That Amrine and Noel developped. Essentially HBH and 50% formic acid.There is also the mite gone pads which Bill Ruzica developped. There are also several evaporators from Europe. Each method has it's pro's and cons and with experience beekeepers can judge for themselves which method is best. In all of them you want the hive to become a fumigator filled with formic acid fumes.

One good thing about formic acid is that the are no maximum residue limits of it in honey. MAQS take advantage of this. Formic goes into the honey easily but it will just as easily go out of it when the supers are placed in a hot room.

Jean-Marc


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Just so we are clear on this alpha, the MAQS that just recieved federal approval are formic acid based. They can be used with honey supers on. The strips that Mike the KF has are thymol based. No federal approval on those ones.

Jean-Marc


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