# Make your own foundation without a mill



## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Just tripped over this in the "New for 2010" section of the Brushy Mountain Web Site.
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Foundation-Mold/productinfo/203/

Cheaper than a mill by far.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

That's nice to see, I have been planning to make one just like that this winter. From the price, maybe I should be selling them as well, if would be quite happy if I could get $200 for them.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

WOW i was stunned!! $325 for a silicone mold? i can see the attraction there and i want one myself but... i wonder how many hives you would need to financialy justify this? 1000? 2000?


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

When its 4500$+ for a set of mills, that seems like a bargain. 
Do the math here -- 2000 hives 3-deep would be 60,000 frames. 
You would need considerably less than that to break even on this.
There is also the added benefit (perhaps the greatest one) of knowing where your wax came from and keeping a closed system. That alone is worth the price of admission.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I have a water cooled mold that didn't cost anyways near $4500...about a third that with shipping included. After about an hour with that mold, you'd wonder why you wasted your $325..

PSSSS..I have a metal foundation mold i'd sell someone for that price....


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

$325 for something to manufacture something the bees neither want nor need...


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

I was waiting for that, Michael....


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## brendantm130 (Jan 23, 2010)

How many hours would it take to make your money back?


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

I've seen pot holders made out of this same silicone material for $8 at a kitchen knik-knak store. $325 for this product is preposterous.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I agree, that is way too much.

You can build wooden presses for less than that.

Big Bear


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## devdog108 (May 7, 2009)

BUT would you pay for a Mill at $600.00


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

from a commercial standpoint NO, from a hobby standpoint maybe cause I like to do hands on work, fix problems, and "get dirty". With the number of hives I currently have and the limited amount of time available, producing my own foundation would not be cost effective.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

peacekeeperapiaries said:


> from a commercial standpoint NO, from a hobby standpoint maybe cause I like to do hands on work, fix problems, and "get dirty". With the number of hives I currently have and the limited amount of time available, producing my own foundation would not be cost effective.


this is not a commercial for mastercard, but....personal satisfaction - priceless. and i think that is behind most beekeepers.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Can you make your own mold with this?

http://www.makeyourownmolds.com/catalog/16


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

mike haney said:


> this is not a commercial for mastercard, but....personal satisfaction - priceless. and i think that is behind most beekeepers.


I agree, as stated "I like to get dirty" and love the personal satisfaction that comes with hard work, dilligence, innovation, etc. Maybe in a few years when my "day job" is behind me I would love to produce my own foundation...but for now the time is spent cutting and building our own boxes, pallets, lids, and SBB's, wiring frames and tending the bees...if only I had 2 more days a week


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

that would work fine- if you could get some of that aluminium foundation sold in the'60s for the female model. i dont believe wax foundation would make a clear enough imprint, and have no experience with the "new" plastic foundation. someone here may want to give this a try- as generous as beekeepers are i can almost guarantee someone would donate a sheet of plastic for the test. good luck,mike


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

peacekeeperapiaries, if you think you are busy now, wait till you retire from your day job. my old boss was a lot easier to work for than i am, and paid better,too


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

wonder if they make those in small cell size. Also to the person that has the water cooled one how does it work and is the foundation made with it very brittle.


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## d.asly (Apr 28, 2008)

> Can you make your own mold with this?
> 
> http://www.makeyourownmolds.com/catalog/16


Highly doubtful - as "Silicone Plastique® has the consistency of clay..." or "[is a] putty that has the consistency of cookie dough," the beeswax foundation used as an original will deform under the pressure required to push the stuff into it.
But this might work: http://www.makeyourownmolds.com/silicone-spread
And this almost certainly should work: http://www.makeyourownmolds.com/copy-flex
You could also use any of the many liquid latex molds available, e.g., http://www.artmolds.com/category28.cfm

I've thought of something like this before. But this spring I'm going foundationless. It's just too much work any other way.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

slickbrightspear said:


> wonder if they make those in small cell size. Also to the person that has the water cooled one how does it work and is the foundation made with it very brittle.


 
My water cooled mold is sc...no it does not make brittle foundation...much heaveir than the commercial stuff you buy..


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Rather than spend $325, plus the time necessary to manufacture your own foundation, why not subcontract it out? Go foundationless, and let the bees to the work? :scratch:


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

I am going to try foundation-less this year. 

However, I can not help form wondering how many sheets you would need to make to pay tor it and how many sheets per hour you could make. At 70 cents a sheet thats 464 sheets. By the time you have your labor figured in at twenty dollars and hour (if your only worth 10 that your problem) to make the sheets, trim them to size, and any other crap I am sure to be missing I will just buy the foundation and get on to more productive things instead of paying 325 dollars for 3 dollars worth of plastic. 

However if three or four people wer to go in on it then maybe it would be worth it. But then again, how long will the thing last before it falls apart?

The price should be less than a hundred dollars. Hopefully someone will make a similar model at a reasonable price instead of riping people off. As a matter of fact, Maybe I will talk to my boss at work and see how much it would cost to machine something like this on the cnc machine shop and contract a few out and see if I can start my own business.

Hmm, this may be a good idea!! What do you think a reasonable price would be?


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

you can take 2 pieces of plastic frames dip a sheet of flat wax and press the 2 frames together now you have a hand press for less then 5.00


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

fat/beeman said:


> you can take 2 pieces of plastic frames dip a sheet of flat wax and press the 2 frames together now you have a hand press for less then 5.00


does this not give you and inside out sheet of foundation?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Oddly enough, the old 4.9 plastic that Dadant was selling is perfect for making a mold like this. The inverse of it is identical as it has no walls, just rhomboids, so what was the bottom becomes the edges and what was the edges becomes the bottom, but it is still the same. I have some around my place somewhere...


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

I would like to try that, if only I could find someone with a few sheets of the old 4.9 plastic from dadant, that might be willing to give it up. This would be great for me, since Don was nice enough to teach me how to make flat sheets. I can't think of a better way for me to try some small cell bee keeping..


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

WI-beek said:


> However, I can not help form wondering how many sheets you would need to make to pay tor it and how many sheets per hour you could make. At 70 cents a sheet thats 464 sheets. By the time you have your labor figured in at twenty dollars and hour (if your only worth 10 that your problem) to make the sheets, trim them to size, and any other crap I am sure to be missing I will just buy the foundation and get on to more productive things instead of paying 325 dollars for 3 dollars worth of plastic.


You know something like the old timey washing machines that had the wringer on top would. The wringer if you replaced the rollers with a hard plastic roller would crank out a whole lot of wax i you had the comb pattern. I am not a CNC operator but couldn't something like this be setup on a CNC machine an cranked out fairly reasonable???

Shoot i wouldn't have a problem paying 150.00 for a hand crank model.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

Another hassle I see after viewing and reading the instructions, is that it says to put in a sink full of water to cool. Will water get in the mold cells and will it have to be dried between each sheet of foundation you make?


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I send my wax to a foundation manufacturer. They clean the wax , roll and inprint the foundation. I pay 46 c ( Australian) for a Full size sheet of perfect foundation.
I think I stick to this!


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