# Dipped boxes Q & A



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Mine are in beeswax and rosin and they are not waxy. They have a little bit of a sheen to them from the rosin, it seems, but mostly it sucks the wax up into the wood if it's cooked long enough.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Doesn't rosin come from pine trees and other conifers?

It sounds like 'chemical treatment' to me.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Hunh?


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

I know there are a number of folks here on BeeSource who hot dip their hive bodies in wax/resin & I'm just trying to work the bugs out of my system. I sure hope it's not the temperature. I like the idea of using electric heating elements for safety. Don't want to risk open flames with flammable wax/resi compounds.


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## jbford (Apr 17, 2009)

Watch out dude, you are made of chemicals!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>It sounds like 'chemical treatment' to me. 

I'm not dunking the bees in it...

The rosin is labeled "Gum Rosin" and is obviously tree sap. What kind is hard to say, but "gum" seems reasonable as does pine....


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## feltze (May 15, 2010)

What is the source for the rosin? The wax... hmm bees...

I never shopped for rosin befor


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

J H Calo Company Inc.
265 Post Ave Suite 333
Westbury NY 11590
516 832-7750


ask for Marjorie and tell her you want to purchasean 85lb sac of Brazilian Gum Rosin...

-fafrd


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

> I'm not dunking the bees in it...
> The rosin is labeled "Gum Rosin" and is obviously tree sap. What kind is hard to say, but "gum" seems reasonable as does pine....


Mike:

I would say that it's like making up your own propolis (wax & resin) and coating your hives with it.

The resin acids that make up rosen are some pretty nifty chemicals. Yes, they may have miticidal activity as well. But that might depend on the source.

So you do understand that the wax/rosen dipping may be the secret to your success.

Yes, I would characterize it as a botanical/chemical treatment. You can probably make some interesting esters by heating resin acids and wax together at over 250 degrees. 

Sooo, how much does an 85# bag of Brazilian Gum Rosen go for?

Is Brazilian propolis cheaper # per #? Where does one get that?


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

WLC said:


> Sooo, how much does an 85# bag of Brazilian Gum Rosen go for??


About $85



WLC said:


> Is Brazilian propolis cheaper # per #? Where does one get that?


No idea about Brazilian propolis and assuming propolis wll work instead of gum rosin, not sure you would need Brazilian (for gum rosin, Brazilian seems to be the only option, at least in this price range).

-fafrd


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So you do understand that the wax/rosen dipping may be the secret to your success.

I was having success five or six years before I started dipping. The bees were doing well in a mixture of painted and unpainted boxes...


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

The reason I brought up Brazilian propolis is because Spivak sprayed an ethanol/Brazilian 'green' propolis mixture. While it won't help preserve the wood, it's easier than dipping.

Mike:

How many years have you been dipping your hives, and what's your preferred mixture? I'm asking just to see if there's a Brazilian resin/propolis connection. Maybe the brazilian rosin will work just as well as the brazilian propolis?

There might be a connection between the resin acids and hive health.

http://www.cyfernet.extension.umn.edu/honeybees/components/pdfs/simone_evans__spivak_2009.pdf

http://www.apidologie.org/index.php...=129&url=/articles/apido/pdf/first/m09142.pdf


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

Hi Swobee,
I'm sure your wax isn't hot enough. When we dip the wax is sucked into the wood with no residue left on the surface we then paint it while it's still hot.
The wax really bubbles when we put the box in. 
We use a wood fire underneath our dipper and a thermometer to check the temperature.

frazz


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How many years have you been dipping your hives

I started in 2007.

>, and what's your preferred mixture? 

It's by eye, but it's between about 2 parts beeswax to 1 part rosin to 1 part beeswax to 1 part rosin.

>I'm asking just to see if there's a Brazilian resin/propolis connection. Maybe the brazilian rosin will work just as well as the brazilian propolis?

Brazillian propolis is green isn't it? I don't know but this looks identical to the rosin I've used on violin bows and arrow ferrules as well as flux for lead etc.

>There might be a connection between the resin acids and hive health.

The bees like it. They gather it off my gloves and the freshly dipped boxes for propolis.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Isn't rosin and beeswax soluble in vegetable oil? I say this because if I were to consider coating a hive with beeswax/rosin, I would be unable to do it safely by heating the mixture and dipping hives into it. 

Thanks Mike for your thoughts.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think you miss the point. It's the boiling in the solution that causes it to suck it up into the wood. Nothing without heat over the boiling point of water will do this.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I'm not convinced that you're 100% correct about a mixture/paste, made w/ beeswax/rosin/oil (vegetable or mineral), not being able to effectively waterproof/preserve wood. 

It could reduce the risks associated w/ dipping hives near an open flame, it could reduce the amount of materials needed, and could be done 'cold'.


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

WLC said:


> I'm not convinced that you're 100% correct about a mixture/paste, made w/ beeswax/rosin/oil (vegetable or mineral), not being able to effectively waterproof/preserve wood.
> 
> It could reduce the risks associated w/ dipping hives near an open flame, it could reduce the amount of materials needed, and could be done 'cold'.


Let us know if you work it out and prove its effectiveness. What is impressive about dipping/frying in boiling wax+gum rosin is that the mixture soaks deeply into the wood (at least 1-4" or so) and so it is not only a surface treatment and is impervious to surface scratchs, nicks, etc...



Swobee said:


> I know there are a number of folks here on BeeSource who hot dip their hive bodies in wax/resin & I'm just trying to work the bugs out of my system. I sure hope it's not the temperature. I like the idea of using electric heating elements for safety. Don't want to risk open flames with flammable wax/resi compounds.



There seems to be so much concern with the danger of heating wax over an open flame - is there a significant difference in the combustibility of paraffin/gum rosin mixture versus vegetable oil? We make tempura, calamari, and french fries over an open flame all of the time and have never considered that we were puttig our house and our lives at risk...

-fafrd


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I have no doubts that immersing hive parts in 250 degree wax/resin will completely soak through the wood.

It's just that there are similar applications of beeswax/rosin mixtures that use penetrating oils as the solvent and could obviate the need for such high temperatures. A double boiler would suffice, for example.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I'd be interested in knowing how the R-value of the wood is effected by dipping...


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

As for R-value, unless the density is altered by dipping, the R would remain relatively unaltered. The more dense many products are, the higher their R-value. Fiberglass, for example has a higher R-value at higher density levels. Wood is a definite contradiction - higher density wood such as oak has a lower R-value than white pine for example. It conducts heat better than lighter or less dense lumber does. That said, the difference is minimal - 10% or so depending on actual species. I can only imagine the difference if any at all would be minimal and not a deep concern. But I am not sure how to accurately model or calculate R-value changes after dipping to verify my assumptions.


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## Justin3 (Jun 10, 2010)

I wondering the same thing as WLC. 

A varnish is basically a resin, a drying oil (linseed) and a solvent(mineral spirits) mixed together. 

So couldnt you dissolve the resin and wax in a solvent and then mix in the drying oil and then paint on your equipmnent?

I know it wont penetrate as far, but the effect could be very close. Without going through all the hassle of having to hot dip.

Could be worth a try...?


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## Throttlebender (Mar 30, 2010)

But then you have to go to the trouble of painting this mixture on every surface of the wood. To me that seems far mopre time intensive and less durable to boot.
Just heat the mixture to 250 and cook each box for about 10 minutes. Easy as pie.
I just did this with a friend yeasterday and it was great. He posted a video in the product and equipment review section.


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## Justin3 (Jun 10, 2010)

Sounds good if you got hundreds or thousands of hives. I have 20 looking to expand by next year to 50. 

I would have to buy the equipment for the hot dipping. Isn't that expensive? Where can you get one made? 

Next, you have to buy a pretty good amount of wax and rosin to fill it...more money.

Just seems like a big investment for me....??


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

First of all, I like the idea of making 'propolis' out of beeswax and resin.

What I don't like is the risk of fire and injury associated with cooking resin and wax over a propane burner at 250 degrees. It's something that I can't bring myself to ever consider doing.

Also, I'm not crazy about the idea of creating countless esters, which may smell great, but are basically uncharacterized. That's what happens when you heat up resin acids and beeswax to high temperatures.

I suggested disolving the beeswax and resin in vegetable oil because it can be done with a simple double boiler that uses a hot plate at significantly lower temperatures, and it also greatly reduces the risk of fire and injury as well as materials.

The trade off is that you don't get the same penetration and protection that you can get by 'plasticizing' the wood via hot wax/resin dipping at high temperatures.

That being said, you won't require high temperatures, and you can still dip your hive bodies with wax/resin/vegetable oil mixtures.

While I would avoid using mineral spirits because I don't want to breathe in any volatile solvents, I would consider a mixture of vegetable oils that would aid in penetrating the wood surface.

What that mix would consist of depends on the kind of wood your hives are made of.

The other consideration is that you could make your own wax/resin/oil paste and apply it cold. I would prefer to coat the inside surface with the 'cold' paste as a type of propolis substitute rather than coating the entire hive.

You can save alot of trouble if you use vegetable oils as solvents.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Doesn't veggie oil become rancid? 

I picture a non-drying, gummy mess. 

It's good that some people have less fear of fire. It has made life easier, and less sticky... : )


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## Throttlebender (Mar 30, 2010)

That's my guess as well.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Do you mean, does beeswax + resin acids + vegetable oil become rancid?

Why would it?

As for a gummy mess...

There are a number of penetrating wood finish recipes that use beeswax + rosin + vegetable oil (like flax and soy).

It's nothing new.

Oh wait, it is new to guys who heat up beeswax and rosin to 250 degrees over a propane burner and then dip wood into it.

My bad.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

WLC,

I'm a hobbyist and while this thread on wood protection is interesting at times, dipping boxes isn't something I'm going to be doing. 

Applying a cold mixture which contains non-drying oil to boxes is also something I'll avoid. 

I believe you should do a test with a number of cold, non-drying mixtures and have the results published.

How many hives do you have in NYC? 

And are you involved with either the Fisher or Cote groups.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Justin3 said:


> So couldnt you dissolve the resin and wax in a solvent and then mix in the drying oil and then paint on your equipmnent?
> 
> Could be worth a try...?


It's been studied, I want to say turpentine? Believe it was shown to be extremely effective, one time treatment...


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## Throttlebender (Mar 30, 2010)

WLC,


If you are afraid of dipping that's perfectly fine.

I prefer dipping for my own reasons.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Beecurious:

You don't want to do any finishing work on your hives? Then why ask?

My experience with applying oil based beeswax/rosin finishes comes from finishing furniture. It worked just fine out of the can. Drying isn't a problem if you use the right type of linseed/vegetable oil mix. 1 part beeswax, 1 part rosin, 2 parts oil mix (1#,1#, 2 pints). However, some linseed oils use heavy metals to help drying. Getting the right type of linseed oil will be the key. The soybean oil is just a solvent that will become absorbed along with the dissolved ingredients.

While I'm not going to apply a finish to the 2 TBHs (made of scrap lumber) or the 4 nucs (plastic), I am considering emulating a study done by Spivak where they applied propolis dissolved in ethanol.

We've got a grant in for 2 medium hives, but I don't want to deal with ethanol fumes. I'd rather find another way to coat the inside of the hives with a propolis substitute. I would prefer to use beeswax/rosin/penetrating oils and treat it like a wood finish rather than dipping the whole hive.

While I'm not involved with the groups you've mentioned, I'm likely hooking up with the Nature Conservancy and private sponsors w/ the rooftop bee project. I suspect that the TBHs, as well as any other homemade equipment will be out, and standard (painted) hives will be in.

Someone wants to turn the roof top garden into an 'urban agriculture' showpiece.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Throttlebender said:


> WLC,
> 
> If you are afraid of dipping that's perfectly fine.


Who says that you can't dip hives into beeswax/rosin/penetrating oils at temperatures well below 250 (w/o the propane burner)? 

I avoid unnecessary risks.

I'm funny that way.


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## Throttlebender (Mar 30, 2010)

I don't believe anyone has said that you can't.

Have at it.

I'll just continue to scratch and grunt and hope I don't win a Darwin Award.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

WLC said:


> Beecurious:
> 
> You don't want to do any finishing work on your hives? Then why ask?


I asked the following:


> How many hives do you have in NYC?
> 
> And are you involved with either the Fisher or Cote groups?


I understand that you are not involved with either Cote or Fisher...

And that you have some woodenware, but no hives containing bees until you get some taxpayer to put bees in them. 

Have I understood correctly?

I'd like to hear what Jim Fisher would say about slathering goop over hive bodies... 


WLC,

You might enjoy reading this:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235809

But don't try this at home!


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Beecurious:

You're TROLLING me?

Since your questions have ZERO to do with finishing woodenware, and by your own admission you have ZERO intentions of trying it out, troll the folks who aren't following OSHA guidelines. 

There are better and safer ways to treat wood. Some of us do understand what the options are.

The funding I speak of is PRIVATE. 

NYC and New York State send more federal $s out then we receive.

In other words Beecurious, stop 'sucking' on New York. You ungrateful parasite.


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## WPG (Mar 28, 2010)

> There are better and safer ways to treat wood. Some of us do understand what the options are.


WLC
Better!? no. Safer!? perhaps.


Your concoction is great for finishing wood that would be used in your living room but not exposed to the elements for long periods of time.

Hot dipping has been studied, researched and simply done for many years around the world and proven to be the most effective longlasting preservative for beehives.

It also has the added benefit of being thoroughly renewable on used equipment and at the same time sanitizing the used equipment. 

*ONLY* hot dipping at 250 degrees for 10 minutes will drive out all moisture and seal the wood. Painting the outside while hot is optional but very effective.

Yes it does take an investment in equipment and supplies to do it properly, and is most efficient when doing larger quantities. When one thinks in 5 year, 10 year, 20 year planning it does save the most resources(time, money, hassle, equipment).

If all you want to do is coat the surface of the wood then *Do Not* put anything on the inside surfaces of the hive. It will trap moisture and cause rot.
Don't waste time experimenting, just use exterior paint or stain.

Some people should not use a welder or cutting torch, some should never cook down their own maple syrup, others should never make their own french fries or can their own food.
That's ok because there are plenty of people that are willing and *able* to do these things safely.

Goodluck 
and be sure to turn your waterheater down to 120.


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## petalumadude (Aug 4, 2009)

Before you do the "chemical" "oh no" it's not organic, etc. etc.
Check your origin of paraffin.
Then check your nails, staples, and wood products, are they all organic?
Did they come from the biospheres with self contained air, water, nutrients or are they "chemically produced"?
Get real, you can only be 50% organic at this point, and that definition is vague no matter how you define it.
OMG, did you know paraffin wax is a petroleum product that has gone through a refining process. The end result is a product that is solid at room temperature. Within the refining process, waxes can be classified as fully refined wax, semi-refined wax, scale wax and slack wax. 
Well maybe dinosaur and rocks could be organic and not chemical, right.


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## Justin3 (Jun 10, 2010)

So before hot dipping does anyone soak their hive bodies or lids in copper naphthenate?

I definitely want to dip my pallets, since they would be in ground contact.

I've heard of one guy dipping his pallets in copper naph, then a solvent, then linseed oil?? Does that make sense?

Next observation: So other then hot dipping...the next best alternative is just primer and exterior latex paint. You wouldn't put anything else on before that??


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So before hot dipping does anyone soak their hive bodies or lids in copper naphthenate?

I'm trying to avoid such things. No, I've never used copper nphthenate on anything...

>I definitely want to dip my pallets, since they would be in ground contact.

Why not build the pallets of treated wood instead?

>I've heard of one guy dipping his pallets in copper naph, then a solvent, then linseed oil?? Does that make sense?

For pallets? Seems like it would be worth just building from pressure treated lumber. The idea of dipping boxes is to protect them without all of that. I used beewax, instead of paraffin.


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## Justin3 (Jun 10, 2010)

The stuff in pre-treated lumber is nasty stuff and is definately NOT bee friendly. Also, it is really expensive compared to non-treated lumber.

From what I've read copper naphthenate is bee-friendly. There seems to be no negative effects from it. They sell it at Mann Lake. 1:3 ratio for pallets, 1:5 for boxes. 

I've read it from multiple sources that it can extend the life of your wood by 10's of years.

Just seems alot easier to spray on or dip, without having to hot dip.

Just an idea.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

I use copper naphthenate it has never hurt my bees. I buy it pre mixed from Home depot. Jasco brown Termin 8. Now a cavate to what I just said if your bees get hungry and chew on the wood like a termite then you will have problems.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If it's going to be in contact with bees and especially if it's part of my hive, I don't want anything in it I wouldn't eat off of. I wouldn't eat off of Copper Napthenate... but yes, it is much better for bees than the green treated lumber. I would never use the green pressure treated lumber anywhere the bees would contact it either, but for the actual piece of wood touching the ground it lasts very well and the bees don't tend to hang out on the stand...


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

I have question? could you use a turkey deep frier as wax container to dip in. should be good. but would have to dip one part the hive befor assembly. what everyones thoughts on that?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's just time consusming... very time consuming, and I was dipping two boxes at a time (eight pieces parts) and it was tedious. You'd be doing eight times as much. It needs to cook for ten minutes. Thats about an hour and a half for one box...


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## ehallspqr (May 2, 2010)

Well building a full size dip tank with the associated costs are definitely out for most hobby Beeks with just a few hives. I thinking about a used turkey fryer as a cheap alternative but even wonder if the 1 or 2 hives I would dip per year are even worth that investment? I'm with MB on using bee's wax rather than paraffin although I'd have to buy my wax either way and the bee's wax is even more costly.

It's been mentioned about various beewax/oil/resin mixtures as good alternatives. Also heard of wax/resin/alcohol recipes. While these are not as good as hot dipping they are certainly cheaper/easier. Can these be enhanced by heating the wood components in the oven or say the solar wax melter to get their surface temps up near 200 so that the wax/resin mixture soaks in better?

Having painted all my past hives, I agree painting is cheap and easy but it does have its drawbacks. That said that, good solid color outdoor paints & stains last 7 years or more nowadays. Problem is I would like to see the woodgrain on my new hives so right now I am looking at all the transparent/clear staining options. Unfortunately most only last a couple years at best. UV kills these types of finishes in short order. Everything leads me back too hot dipping. Would one of the wax/resin/oil concoction substitutes be a clear coat option that would last more than a couple years? Anyone find a good paint-on clear coat that last more than a few seasons? If I could get 3 to 4 years before refinishing I would be happy with that. Right now my Minwax urethane/tung oil finish on my wood front door looks like hell. It is crumbling and flaking mess and now must be scraped down to reapply more.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

We've placed a number of the hot-dipped hive bodies we did into use this summer. I guess time will be the real test to see of 200°=/- is hot enough or if the mix really needs to be 250°. I still like the notion of using electric elements for safety reasons and may try another twist. We could pre-heat the water jacket to get the resin/wax liquid, then use another element in the resin/wax tank to heat that liquid even more. Once the mix is heated up, it doesn't take that much more energy to keep it hot.

As for the cost to build a tank, yes for a small hobbyist there is a substantial cost. Unless you have mild steel sheet material at your hand and a welder handy, you need to hire it done. I suppose a turkey fryer could be used, especially as a heat source for a steel dipping tank. I question the weight of lumber and a tank to dip an assembled hive body is safe for a turkey fryer stand. A more substantial stand needs to be incorporated if you're using a tank large enough to sit a complete body in it as we do. 

I still have a caution flag in my mind if using an open flame around a flammable liquid substance. We do ours indoors and will continue to do so out of convenience. The weather doesn't always cooperate on my days off to let me work as I wish. An open flame and wax/resin mix sounds like a great way to end up with a new shop a few weeks after the fire department leaves.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Swobee,

You might entertain the idea of using antifreeze in your jacket to increase the temp a bit, or even oil if the system would allow its use. 

What could go wrong?


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## Throttlebender (Mar 30, 2010)

When having the tank built just weld a skirt around the tank to keep any drips from getting near the flame. 

Or, as my friend did, stack bricks around the base to hold in heat and stack them high enough and tightly enough that they hug the sides of the tank. That makes it incredibly difficult for any liquids to reach the flame.

When we did ours, it really was easy and safe. Just use common sense.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's the steam leaving and the wax getting sucked back in to replace it when it cools that makes this method so good. If you aren't "cooking" them it won't be the same effect at all. I've, out of impatience cooked them cooler and don't like the results, and hotter, and boiling over becomes a problem...


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

ehallspqr mentioned the issue I am concerned about.

UV 

I understand that the beeswax will waterproof it quite well, especially once sucked into the wood.

What about UV protection?

Lignin in the wood breaks down in the presence of UV light and I have a lot of issues with UV here in Florida.

I assume I'd have to paint them to get some UV protection too, right?

MB, do your boxes turn grey after a few years?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I first dipped them in 2007. The ones that were new when I dipped them for the most part have not turned gray. A few have a little gray here and there.


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## AndreiRN (Jun 13, 2008)

I soak them in salt water for 2 - 3 days and dipp them in parafine for 10 min when they dry good. 
The used boxes I soak in salt water and clorine.


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## Hartz (Sep 4, 2010)

I just dipped 100+ boxes several weeks ago. I used 25% Rosin/75% parrafin (Mannlake's recipe) and switched boxes every 20 minutes @ 275 degrees. Worked slick...we'll have to see how well they hold up!

Hartz


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## Tourist (Feb 25, 2011)

One of the most important things about wax dipping in addition to the wood preserving benefits, is the anti-AFB effects of it. In New Zealand, it's the only way to reuse gear from AFB infected hives because wax dipping at high enough temps for long enough actually kills the spores. I think this is a really strong argument for wax dipping - it works in well with an all round IPM strategy, reducing the potential for one more colony stress.

I'm looking to get a dipper made - just wondering if any of you have any plans. What is the rough size of the wax holding hole into which you dip your gear? I've got something sort of worked out but I'm kind of nervous to get my welder onto it before I'm sure it's the dipper I want to be battling with for the next 30 years.

Cheers!


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## ehallspqr (May 2, 2010)

Don't know if this was mentioned before. A wax dipper box I saw had an inner steel box welded in the center. The hive body went round the inner box and the outer box was only slightly bigger than the hive body. This greatly cut down on the amount of wax/gum needed do get the required depth. Also the inner box provided a recess for the burner so less possibility of wax running down and catching fire. I imagine it was more work to construct.


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## Tourist (Feb 25, 2011)

That sounds like a good idea. I do want something with a rather large opening so that I can dip a few boxes on edge at a time. Also to dip things like lids and excluders. With a lid nearby that fits over top, wax dipping really isn't that dangerous - like any fire, it's pretty easily snuffed out with no oxygen. Unless it boils over....


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

ehallspqr said:


> ... an inner steel box welded in the center. The hive body went round the inner box and the outer box was only slightly bigger than the hive body.


Now THAT's an interesting idea... the main barrier for me exploring dipping so far has been the huge amount of wax and gum to buy, but I already have lots of huge propane burners and pyromaniacal tendencies to explore. I'll have to check with WelderDave and see what something like that would cost...


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## Hartz (Sep 4, 2010)

I had mine made 36" x 22" by 16" deep. I think it is 16 gage but am not sure. I surround it w/cement blocks on 3 sides and use a 3 burner propane stove (sold by Cabelas). It will dip 2 deeps at a time (I set a medium on each deep or a deep on each medium w/ a couple heavy angle irons to hold them down because they want to float. 150 lbs of paraffin and 55lbs of rosin is what it takes to fill it enough to start dipping. I thought about using a solid cement block in the center of each super but figured it wouldn't be worth the hassle. I could still do it if my wax/rosin gets too low.

Hartz


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## Brent (Jun 22, 2009)

Does anyone know of a good source for paraffin wax. I noticed that Mann Lake no longer has wax or rosin in the new catalog.

Brent


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## Ronnie Elliott (Mar 24, 2004)

I want to dip in wax for my new 13, 8-frame medium suppers. I called the phone number above on how much the rosin cost? They were out until May, it comes in 55.7 pound sacks, and will cost about $2.90 per pound. Is there a substitute, that would do a good job?


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## Hartz (Sep 4, 2010)

Just bought some rosin from Mann Lake. Its not in the catalog or online but they still had it 2 weeks ago. $166.54 for 50 lbs including shipping. ($2.59 plus shipping) You will have to call and ask for it.

Hartz


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## Taylors_Bees (Jan 17, 2011)

Ronnie Elliott said:


> I want to dip in wax for my new 13, 8-frame medium suppers. I called the phone number above on how much the rosin cost? They were out until May, it comes in 55.7 pound sacks, and will cost about $2.90 per pound. Is there a substitute, that would do a good job?


You can sub it for crystalin wax needs to be 180 melt point, its a paraffan wax but it is a branched hydro carben so your boxes wont bleed on a hot day it locks the wax in it works good


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## Ronnie Elliott (Mar 24, 2004)

Do you have a supplier, and contact number who sells crystalin wax needs?


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## Taylors_Bees (Jan 17, 2011)

Ronnie Elliott said:


> Do you have a supplier, and contact number who sells crystalin wax needs?


I get it from swans 253 584 4666 there in wa state but if you look online mite be cheaper there good vid on youtube on hot wax dipping


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## Hartz (Sep 4, 2010)

I get my wax from www.candlewic.com. They have regular paraffin as well as crystalin (high melting point) waxes.

Hartz


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## Steve_in_NC (Apr 9, 2000)

There are slabs of microcrystalline wax on eBay at the moment. $15 for 10 pounds. Ships from Fredericksburg, VA.


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## Ronnie Elliott (Mar 24, 2004)

I keep no more than 4-5 hives going, maybe i can find someone at a beekeeping club who hot dips?


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

honeydreams said:


> I have question? could you use a turkey deep frier as wax container to dip in. should be good. but would have to dip one part the hive befor assembly. what everyones thoughts on that?


I'm not sure this would be a good idea if you plan to glue your joints....


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

Last year I dipped 650 unassembled boxes in paraffin/permE8 copper naph. before stapling them together. 
I used an old 55-gal. honey drum with two electric barrel heaters, and wrapped the barrel in fiberglass batting insulation (but not in contact with the heater bands on the bottom of the tank). This setup can get you close to 300 F without an open flame. The insulation will also soak up the smaller boil-overs. I had a welder make a round basket out of expanded metal that fits inside the drum, with lifting ears for lowering and hoisting it out of the tank.
Paraffin wax can be found on eBay, mine came from a candle factory. CAUTION: paraffin wax from candle remnants contains colors and perfumes which seemed to cause the hot mixture to foam up a lot more than virgin paraffin wax after lowering the untreated wood into the barrel. Virgin paraffin didn't foam/boil-up nearly as much.
No matter the setup keep 2 or 3 full fire extinguishers nearby and a hose and bucket of water. I had a close call or two that could have been disaster if not for the extinguishers.


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## Steve_in_NC (Apr 9, 2000)

Has anyone made beeware out of plywood and dipped it? Does it last at all? Worth doing??


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

I would think dipping plywood in hot liquid would delaminate it... if not right away, it would about have to have some effect on the glue.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I dipped all my lids and they are 1/2" CDX. It makes them last longer. None of them have delaminated.


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

Bare with me, I'm new. I think I understand the advantages of dipping; 1 time treatment, no scraping and repainting, extended woodenware life, speed of application, recycling boxes if AFB is detected (heaven forbid), and they just plain look good too. These are all good reasons to dip. With all these reasons to dip boxes, covers, and BB; can you also dip frames? If not why? I'm in the process of deciding whether to paint or dip. It's just a big initial investment. Do you think other local beekeepers would dip their equipment if another local did it as a service for them?

Wisnewbee


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

I sure would. I've considered a setup, but I don't have the storage capacity.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You could but:
1) frames are not out in the weather.
2) frames will be propolized by the bees anyway.


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

Wisnewbee said:


> Bare with me,


Oooh, kinky!


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

I known that MB uses beeswax and rosin to dip, and other people use paraffin and rosin to dip. The paraffin is much less expensive to use. The beeswax is natural to have in the hive. My concern about using beeswax is because I will have to purchase the beeswax, I will not know the source or quality of the beeswax. (i.e. was the beeswax from a treated hive) I'm concerned I could be introducing chemicals without my knowledge. The paraffin would be new and pure. I'd prefer to use beeswax, but the contamination and extra cost have me concerned. Am I worrying for nothing?

Wisnewbee


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think contamination is a valid concern.


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

I have a few questions since I have been thinking of building a dipping tank.

I am concerned with the high cost of the wax - I have the material for the tank that would measure 20x20 x32 tall filled to 24 inches. I have estimated about 200 lbs of wax/rosin.

1) How much wax gets absorbed per each deep hive body?
2) What are issues of dipping used/painted equipment?
3) What would be a fair price for dipping equipment for local club members?
4) Are there any tips on system startup - initial melting of a 20x20x24 block of wax?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

1) I never calculated it, but I went through 200 pounds of beeswax and 100 pounds of rosin and I still have a full tank. I'm sure it's at least 50 pounds. I dipped 500 boxes, 200 bottoms, 200 lids, at least 200 mating nucs and some other odds and ends.

2) Painted stuff dips fine. I dipped 200 painted boxes.

3) It's a lot of work to dip. Mostly it's time consuming. You can't leave for a minute while the burners are on because you can't risk a boil over (think chicken soup boiling on the stove except flammable) and it takes 10 minutes to cook them well enough to get it to really suck the wax in when you pull them out. I To dip what I listed above was probably a week's work from sunup to late at night.

4) Really low heat until you have a pretty good puddle of wax. MUCH better to start it up on a hot day... I also used a torch all around the sides moving all the time to get the sides started melting.


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

Anyone tried Soy wax in place of Paraffin?


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## sharpdog (Jun 6, 2012)

I've been trying to source electric elements for a dip tank, and I'm not sure what is best. I've heard that hot water elements will quickly burn out at 250F.
Luke


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