# Division Board for 10-frame Langstroth and 4-Frame nucs



## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I make duplex hives by adding a 3/4" x 3/4" shim on the bottom of a deep. (leave out where your entrances will be on opposite ends) Then I nail a piece of plywood on that's long enough to provide landing board for both ends. Divider is made from a 2x12. Jigsaw comes in handy. 
The "nucs". 
I build my own that are 8 3/16" wide so that two fit exactly on top. They're 4-framers but have some extra space. 
This is an example of what you're talking about. I use a 2x12 for the divider because two 1x's are 1.5" wide. Seems to work real well. 
You can't tell by the picture but behind the unpainted piece on the front is another shim that's 3/4 x 3/4. Put the extra piece on because that old deep has some rotten on the edge.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

You don't need a dado slot cut the board to fit a couple of finish nails to hold it in place or use screws if you need to remove the board later. I use narrow frames small cell foundation so I can get 9 frames in a 8 frame box. I remove one frame put the divider in then I have 2, 4 frame nucs. On the supers I make them with one side only 3/8 thick so I have the same room in the supers.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Thanks for that! Do you overwinter in these? I thought a thinner division board was required. But, hey it that works, all the better. I have some 2X12 on hand. Also, I see the front of the bottom board, and understand the shim, but how does it work in the back? Wider shim in front?


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Dan the bee guy said:


> You don't need a dado slot cut the board to fit a couple of finish nails to hold it in place or use screws if you need to remove the board later. I use narrow frames small cell foundation so I can get 9 frames in a 8 frame box. I remove one frame put the divider in then I have 2, 4 frame nucs. On the supers I make them with one side only 3/8 thick so I have the same room in the supers.


Thanks. Do you use 2x's for the divider too? I was thinking 1/8" masonite would benefit the cluster...one big cluster in the middle vs. 2 separate clusters in each compartment.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The quick and dirty way is to cut some 3/4 inch thick shelving board to fit the inside of your hive bodies then use 2 inch long sheetrock screws to screw them into place. Do NOT make them free hanging, they will wind up out of position and sooner or later you will lose queens. Attach a matching wood strip to the bottom board. I prefer to use a small wooden board on top of each resulting nuc because it allows each side to be worked without giving the queens a way to slip over to the other side. Yes, I lost some queens this way in the past, that is why I use pieces of plywood cut to fit.

If you insist on making them free hanging, drive some frame nails into the inside of the brood chamber so that they hold the divider firmly in position. Cut the heads off the nails. Then you can remove the divider and use the box as a standard brood chamber.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Fusion_power said:


> The quick and dirty way is to cut some 3/4 inch thick shelving board to fit the inside of your hive bodies then use 2 inch long sheetrock screws to screw them into place. Do NOT make them free hanging, they will wind up out of position and sooner or later you will lose queens. Attach a matching wood strip to the bottom board. I prefer to use a small wooden board on top of each resulting nuc because it allows each side to be worked without giving the queens a way to slip over to the other side. Yes, I lost some queens this way in the past, that is why I use pieces of plywood cut to fit.
> 
> If you insist on making them free hanging, drive some frame nails into the inside of the brood chamber so that they hold the divider firmly in position. Cut the heads off the nails. Then you can remove the divider and use the box as a standard brood chamber.


Thank you. I guess SBB would be out of the question. The separate covers make a lot of sense.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

cervus said:


> Thanks. Do you use 2x's for the divider too? I was thinking 1/8" masonite would benefit the cluster...one big cluster in the middle vs. 2 separate clusters in each compartment.


I use 3/4 lumber that's why I make 3/8 wood for the center divider on the supers it also helps to make more room for the frames I use. Small cell and narrow frames aren't for everybody but I like it.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I made the bottom box divider from 2" stock (1 1/2) so it is as thick as the combined innner sides of the 4 frame nuc boxes. Gives an even surface all the way up and down in the hive. Make sure you block the frame rest rebate in the bottom box and have your bottom board with a tight fitting divider for the 10 frame box divider to sit upon.If you just use masonite or Luan underlay you will have a lot of space beside the frames for the bees to get creative with. Even 4 standard width frames is much more room than standard bee space.

I have divided some boxes with floor underlay, masonite, election signs etc using grooves to slide in but they seem harder to make secure between levels of boxes and boxes to bottom board joint.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Dan the bee guy said:


> I use 3/4 lumber that's why I make 3/8 wood for the center divider on the supers it also helps to make more room for the frames I use. Small cell and narrow frames aren't for everybody but I like it.


 Ah. Now I understand. Thanks.



crofter said:


> I made the bottom box divider from 2" stock (1 1/2) so it is as thick as the combined innner sides of the 4 frame nuc boxes. Gives an even surface all the way up and down in the hive. Make sure you block the frame rest rebate in the bottom box and have your bottom board with a tight fitting divider for the 10 frame box divider to sit upon.If you just use masonite or Luan underlay you will have a lot of space beside the frames for the bees to get creative with. Even 4 standard width frames is much more room than standard bee space.
> 
> I have divided some boxes with floor underlay, masonite, election signs etc using grooves to slide in but they seem harder to make secure between levels of boxes and boxes to bottom board joint.


Thanks. Nice looking boxes. Thanks for the tip on blocking the rabbet on the bottom box. That could easily be overlooked. The way you have both entrances on the front is unique. Attached at a pivot point? Any problems with a semi-private separate entrance? I just watched Michael Palmer's video again and as he explained it, the winter cluster in both nucs is really just one large cluster with a "thin" board bisecting it. Somehow I got the impression that a thin board would facilitate heat transfer between the halves. I'm probably over-thinking this.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

It would only be a short time before the divider, whether foam, thin or thick solid wood, matches the temperature of the two colonies and there would be no more heat transfer into the partition in either direction. If one colony died the shared wall would be a heat loss though!
The entrance reducers are just pieces of loose stock and the ends set against the bottom board divider that project out to the end of the landing board. When I hived the June 1. I left them open just a little more than a finger size. There was no robbing issue and there is no tendency to harass the neighbors at the property line!

Re the winter cluster; a sphere has the least surface area to volume ratio. I think what Michael may be getting at is that each colony does not have to form a separate sphere but each one takes hemispherical shape with the flat side against the shared wall.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

crofter said:


> It would only be a short time before the divider, whether foam, thin or thick solid wood, matches the temperature of the two colonies and there would be no more heat transfer into the partition in either direction. If one colony died the shared wall would be a heat loss though!
> The entrance reducers are just pieces of loose stock and the ends set against the bottom board divider that project out to the end of the landing board. When I hived the June 1. I left them open just a little more than a finger size. There was no robbing issue and there is no tendency to harass the neighbors at the property line!
> 
> Re the winter cluster; a sphere has the least surface area to volume ratio. I think what Michael may be getting at is that each colony does not have to form a separate sphere but each one takes hemispherical shape with the flat side against the shared wall.


Thank you. I've watched the video several times, each time telling myself this is the way to go. Although we have relatively short and mild winters, it's still touchy at times. Thankfully we have enough warm days that we can monitor stores. I think I've enough stock for several nuc boxes, and now with the division board riddle solved (thanks to you all), I'm going to modify some deeps this fall. Thanks again.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Ooooh. Brushy Mountain is marketing this same thing as a Resource Hive. And it's on sale! $85.00 assembled. Everything but the top cover. By the time I ripped my stock, borrowed the BIL table saw, and assembled, I'd have more time and just about the same cost of material. I still want to build them, but I won't have my shop set-up until October.


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## AJ7 (Aug 26, 2015)

Crofter, that's how i made my 4 over 4 as well. Only thing different is I went with screened bottoms but am seriously thinking about switching to solid.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

AJ7 said:


> but am seriously thinking about switching to solid.


Can I ask why? And can you explain how you attached the mating piece to the box divider board on your sbb?
Thanks.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

imo two stacks of 5 frame nucs pushed together and perhaps wrapped is the same as the divided ten with nucs on top. problem is the nucs are only 4 frame so less resources. The dividers you are thinking out of luan size stuff is for queen castles. no way i'd use it on a hive that I was moving stuff above it around. one 3/8 hole and its war. using 2x is what I would do. 
I took this trip last year drinking the koolaid about warmth. still not sure how I feel about it. I made 20 5 frame nucs out of plywood for less then 100 bucks. I can double them up and have a vertical 10 frames of space. so in the 4 frame idea they are still separated by at least 3/4 of wood and only have 8 vs my ten. I've seen the queen excluder and a super on top and really hate that idea. if they move the cluster up the queen can't follow and will die.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

kaizen said:


> imo two stacks of 5 frame nucs pushed together and perhaps wrapped is the same as the divided ten with nucs on top. problem is the nucs are only 4 frame so less resources. I've seen the queen excluder and a super on top and really hate that idea. if they move the cluster up the queen can't follow and will die.


I dont think I have seen it seriously advised to put any of the stores above an excluder for the winter whether single or two queen. I sure would not. too much chance to have the queen abandoned below the excluder if the cluster moves above. The shared supers of standard size and common components for bottom box and bottom board seem to be the advantages.

Certainly side by side but separate 5 frame nucs winter well. They seem to get away on me in the fall and often are three high though. Really I am defeating the economics of the nuc wintering by going to three deeps height. I am guessing that when the main reason is to get as many queens overwintered with as few resources as possible the paired four frame config on a ten frame box makes a neat package

I am a believer in the value of insulation for winter survival but I am in a lot higher degree day heating requirement than most people here. Undoubtedly there is a point of diminishing returns though. Someone called BS on Enjambres for claiming no winter losses and I am in the same club so far. If I were doing it for the money I would be cutting back on winter preps and the weight of stores to the point where I was getting a bit of winter survival pushback.

With no small hive beetle, wax moth problem and almost zero sign of varroa here I dont see any benefit of screened bottoms. I have cool nights through June and now in august starting to loose productivity from heat loss. Screened bottoms definitely not in the works, though I do have one colony on a screened bottom to see if I can get any mite fall with or without oxalic acid vaporization.

I think the screened bottom would be a good idea on the top of the hive covered with 4 or 5 inches of loose shavings! matter of fact that is effectively what I do for winter! ventilation is a real issue then.


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## AJ7 (Aug 26, 2015)

I have queens disappearing in the 4 over 4 and wondering if it might be the screened bottom. I like the screen as it allows me to apply OA without entering the hive but that's just a personal preference. My dividers are inch stock with luan on each side with the top bar protruding like the frames. 

I find that they can get away from ya as well, got some up 3 high.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

kaizen said:


> problem is the nucs are only 4 frame so less resources.


I thought that was the whole purpose. Overwintering smaller colonies with less resources.



AJ7 said:


> I have queens disappearing in the 4 over 4 and wondering if it might be the screened bottom. I like the screen as it allows me to apply OA without entering the hive but that's just a personal preference. My dividers are inch stock with luan on each side with the top bar protruding like the frames.
> 
> I find that they can get away from ya as well, got some up 3 high.


As I recall from the video, MP was using feed sacks on top of his nucs. Unless nucs were built with zero bee space between the tops and the frames, I see an escape route there as well as the bottom. 

If they outgrow the 4 over 4, they're going in a 10-frame deep. I can't see the utility in stacking, at least in my location.

Seems to be a lot of moving parts using this set-up. Hope it works.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

crofter said:


> I dont think I have seen it seriously advised to put any of the stores above an excluder for the winter whether single or two queen. I sure would not. too much chance to have the queen abandoned below the excluder if the cluster moves above. The shared supers of standard size and common components for bottom box and bottom board seem to be the advantages.
> 
> .


my mistake. he was talking about in the summer having both nucs going through the excluder placing nectar into one ten frame box. He did not say winter.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I have used the feed bags but put a row of staples in the middle of the divider and fold it back when working on one side. Problem occurred when one side rejected the caged queen and the other side of the stack got ahead. You need separate top covers that fit tightly to the divider or to the sides of the four frame nuc boxes that become the divider once you get up to levels above the divided 10 frame bottom. 

I would suggest not starting down the road of having non standard top bee space (frame rest rabbet depth)

The bees are going to be sharing a single mann lake hive top feeder as soon as my syrup cools down; better get at it!


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

crofter said:


> I would suggest not starting down the road of having non standard top bee space (frame rest rabbet depth)


Thanks Frank. I think the set-up I ordered has separate tops. If not, I'm pretty good at modifying. Have to be! I went the safe route and ordered 2 nuc top feeders...my nucs hardly know each other.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

As recommended by someone here (who was it?) I have recently made some 10 frame double queen castles on division screens divided by a bushed out plastic frame. I made half frames so the nuc will be a total five frame nuc, four frames, half a frame from the divider and half a frame from the follower frame. The division screen has the entrances. 

The divider frame:


A half frame:



The box with no regular frames:


The divided division screen:


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

crofter said:


> The bees are going to be sharing a single mann lake hive top feeder as soon as my syrup cools down; better get at it!


Frank, how does this work and still keep the queens separated? I want to use the Brushy Mtn. top feeder which is very similar. But bees entering the same feeder space from 2 different nucs...I still can't wrap my head around this. And the same thing for a honey super without an excluder. Pardon my density.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

odfrank said:


> As recommended by someone here (who was it?) I have recently made some 10 frame double queen castles on division screens divided by a bushed out plastic frame. I made half frames so the nuc will be a total five frame nuc, four frames, half a frame from the divider and half a frame from the follower frame. The division screen has the entrances.
> 
> The divider frame:
> 
> ...


Hey, I think I thunk of that...yer welcome! 

So, O.F., how do you like them? The only problem I've encountered is not having enough of them "at the ready"...


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