# Para-Moth questions



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

A question came up last night with another beekeeper. I wasn't sure the answer.

Para-moth says about "airing" out the supers after using the product. And I have seen "doped up" bees when you don't do that.

But what about using para-moth crystals to protect brood chamber boxes. Is there residue effects, such as with the queen and brood? Has there been any studies or research into the effects of using para-moth chrystals on bee health, brood, and queen effects?

To even confine the product to supers, is that really effective, in regards to trying to lessen the impact(if any) to the brood? What I mean is, the queen no doubt goes into the supers for a good deal of beekeepers who use the product. So I guess I'm asking if there is a difference between using it just for supers, or do beekeepers also use it for storing dead-out hives and brood chamber comb? Has anyone seen problems after reusing such equipment, after taking the standard precuations of airing out the comb, etc?

Thank you.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>any studies or research into the effects of using para-moth chrystals on bee health, brood, and queen effects . . .
None that I am aware of, but . . . what do I know? 

>using it just for supers . . .
Supers that have never had brood in them, aren't bothered by wax moths, why use it in supers?

>use it for storing dead-out hives . . .
>brood chamber comb . . .
>problems after taking the standard precuations of airing out the comb . . .

PARADICHLOROBENZENE (PDB) or Para-moth (brand name) has been in use for many years. We often see statments like "PDB is absorbed into wax and residues are being found in wax [BC, 2/07, p52]", and "Odor of PDB is readily absorbed by honey". Seems to me, there may problems, but PDB "is approved" and labeled (in 2003) for use in every state except California. Why?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>labeled (in 2003) for use in every state except California. Why?
Reply With Quote

Because California will not label a carcinogen for use in food and PDB is a known carcinogen.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I read with interest this thread...I only wonder, what can I use that is both safe for the bees and people to protect my wax comb? Am I the only one that is confused. I was going to use paradichlorobenzene crystals...which I have now purchased... What are others using?


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## denny (Aug 2, 2006)

I bought some Bt Aizawai Powder from Sundance awhile back, and mix that with water & spray on any comb that I'm storing.

Check here.......

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203563&=certan

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208747


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>Because California will not label a carcinogen for use in food . . .
PDB is NOT labeled "for use in food"

>PDB is a known carcinogen . . .
Why is PDB labeled for use ANYWHERE?

>Bt Aizawai . . .
Bt WAS approved for beehive use at one time (since expired).

>what can I use that is both safe for the bees and people . . .
First try NOTHING. 
1) Keep brood out of honey supers.
2) Store DRY honey supers where its cool (68 F) and keep humidity below 50%. Provide LOTS of light and air movement. You may not need anything else.

3) Brood chambers should be "on the hive" w/ lots of bees during "wax moth season". Why have brood chambers in storage?


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

"Supers that have never had brood in them, aren't bothered by wax moths, why use it in supers?"

In this part of Indiana you better not let your supers set around without moth protection I have had then in a bucket of cappings!!

I have a friend that had a hive setting in a yard (empty) he put "Para-moth" on top of it and came back a week later and a swarm had moved in and cleaned the Para-moth out so it must not hurt them.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Come on Dave.
Your asking why use if your supers never had brood in them. (I never stated that) Now your asking why someone would have brood chambers in storage.

In talking with another beekeeper, storing brood chambers was exactly the discussion we were having. Its not like having a deadout or some unused brood chambers is out of the realm of possibilities. So the question was asked "Would you store a hive (brood chamber) with para-moth crystals till next season? I said I did not know the dangers.

I was comparing it too the many supers, (Yes Dave, many have used, and will use again, many supers that have had previously brood in the comb) that people use season after season while storing the supers with para-moth. Now if your one not to use an excluder, as many don't, sometimes the queen ends up laying in the supers. The very same supers that had been stored with para-moth crystals. So the question is asked, is there any studies, known problems, or suggestions about queen laying in supers with para-moth residue? The carry-over comment or question was, if its not a problem in supers, would it be a problem in brood chambers?

Moth season around here Dave is till the first cold snap. Whens that? September? October? Are you saying that combining a weak hive, or having a deadout is something impossible in keeping bees? Sorry. I know better. Of course some will be pulling, combining and storing brood chambers prior to the end of wax moth season. Even if you feel all such boxes should be on hives. 

Yes, I know some "store" excess boxes on top of the hives. But this often over extends the bees ability to defend comb, and with shb, it makes it even harder to do.

I asked about the uses and thoughts on para-moth. Trying to have the information available for the next time a question is asked. Whether you use the stuff or not is not the point. I don't use checkmite, but I try to know about it. Its better to answer questions, than constantly reply "I wouldn't use that stuff!" You actually assumed that all supers are brood free, and wax moths should not be a problem. Nice that you have a perfect system dave, and have queens never in your supers. Now if you'll step aside, I'll be looking for some information from the less than perfect beekepers. One's like myself, who sometimes have brood in my supers.....


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

This is part of the conversation that is the reason for this post. It was between me, I'll play the part of Bjorn, and another beekeeper played by Another- BKP.

Another- BKP "So if I take the frames with bees and combine it with another hive, should I store the other frames and box till spring? And should I put any para-moth on to protect the comb?"

Bjorn "I'm not sure. I know para-moth is used for supers, but I don't know about brood chambers.

Another- BKR "Yeah, but its not like the queen doesn't lay in the supers sometimes. How bad can it be?

Bjorn "I'm not sure. But let me post this on BeeSource. I'm sure somebody will have some information.....


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> In talking with another beekeeper, storing brood chambers was exactly the discussion we were having. Its not like having a deadout or some unused brood chambers is out of the realm of possibilities. So the question was asked "Would you store a hive (brood chamber) with para-moth crystals till next season? I said I did not know the dangers.


I've been following this thread for exactly this reason. If I combine my weak hive with another, what should I do with the empty deeps full of brood comb, given that we've still got a few months before it gets cold? If I'm going to lose all my comb to wax moth, then maybe I'm better off to let the weak hive limp along and die off in the winter, but that ignores the conventional wisdom to combine weak hives.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

try laying down news paper in between each super as us stack them for storage. this works even better if the super are wet (freshly extracted) both the lesser and greater wax moth have diffaculty living or procreating in this situation. 
Another trick you can try and is 100% effective is to freeze them in your deep freezer for a day or 2, try 2 days just to be on the safe side. take them out and wrap in a garbage bag and tape them closed and store for winter, your supers will be as fresh as the day you put them in the deep freeze (watch out for condensation after you take them out of the freezer, you might just want to let them thaw and dry before you wrap the supers air tight as moisture is just as bad as wax moth).


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

An alternative is to bag them before you freeze them, then the condensation forms on the outside of the bag when you take them out and the combs stay dry.


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