# screened bottom boards



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't have any experience with them wintering in SBB. I have wintered a lot of hives, though, and the concept is pretty contrary for me. I'd take a piece of baling twine and staple it to the edges of the under side of the bottom board to make a zig zag and slide in a piece of cardboard if it was me.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I built the screened bottom boards from this board that can be closed during the cold or when doing a mite drop test and they work for me. I am North of you and usually much colder than you but they are wonderful helping control the varora mites
Clint

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Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan


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## Bigearl (Oct 16, 2002)

I leave the SBB's open all year and have had good results so far. I check my hive last weekend and had a lot of bees.
Earl


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## Russ (Sep 9, 2001)

From all of the comments that I have read about cold and Bees, the cold will not kill the bees. If you don't have sufficent ventilation and it is cold where the moisture will collect on the cover and drip on the bees this will kill the bees. I know of a feral swarm that is exposed under the eave of a vacunt house that has been there for a while and they are still alive (in S.E. Ks, temp down to 0 Deg. at times). I have not been brave enough to leave my slide board out this year but I may next year. Seems that the cold doesn't affect the bees like it does us humans. As for making the slide it really isn't that much trouble. I use screws to install the 3/4"X3/4" strips to retain the slider board. You can use most anything available for the slider board. If you have more questions just post them here and someone will answer them. Dale


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Personally I will not try the open bottom boards here. It's not just the temperature that's an issue. I've seen many a ground blizzard when it was 10 below and the wind was 60 mph. I don't think it should be open. Maybe the wind doesn't blow so much other places, but any winter storm here will hit 40 mph.


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

This is my first year with a sbb on during the winter. It has been pretty cold here in northeastern PA this winter, and so far so good. I have to agree, that an updraft could become a problem, but I have my hives on stands, that more or less prevent an updraft, but still allow ventilation during the season. Time will tell. We are getting another arctic blast this week, and temps down to the single digits again!

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Dale Richards
Dal-Col Apiaries
Drums, PA


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## drichards (Feb 1, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> I don't have any experience with them wintering in SBB. I have wintered a lot of hives, though, and the concept is pretty contrary for me. I'd take a piece of baling twine and staple it to the edges of the under side of the bottom board to make a zig zag and slide in a piece of cardboard if it was me.


Michael, Don here in the frigid northwest Nebraska. Do you use screened bottom boards?


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Just slide a piece of sign board in the entrance of the hive for winter.
Been reading on here for years some people in cold country close them some leave them open all winter. I think the wind could be a problem.


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## drichards (Feb 1, 2014)

Guys,

I am wondering if you are having results in monitoring varrora populations with the screened boards.


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## Levi's Bees (Feb 7, 2014)

need to know what size of screen is good to use. having a hard time finding #8 mesh thx for the help.


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

Levi's Bees said:


> need to know what size of screen is good to use. having a hard time finding #8 mesh thx for the help.


you definitely want to use #8


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

With screen sizes with _holes _larger than #7, bees can get through, so you need to use #7 or #8 to block bees. But #7 is much harder to find than #8 hardware cloth. You may have better luck asking for "#8 hardware cloth" instead of "screen".

A useful reference on hardware cloth sizes:


Michael Bush said:


> #8 - no bee can pass. pollen gets stuck.
> #7 - as long as there are no bent wires, no bee can pass. Pollen falls through.
> #6 - worker bees can squeeze through (and will) but they have to wiggle and squirm a lot. Drones and queens cannot.
> #5 - worker bees can squeeze through easily but lose some of their pollen. Queens and drones cannot.
> #4 - all bees can pass (workers, drones and queens). The workers sometimes lose some of their pollen when they catch their basket on the wire. (mice cannot and this makes a nice mouse guard)


If you can't find #8 hardware cloth locally, here is one online source:
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Jac...10-foot-Redi-Roll-Hardware-Cloth-6100804.html


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

you can also get it from brushy mountain


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Are there any similar guidelines for allowing pests like SHB to fall through?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Are there any similar guidelines for allowing pests like SHB to fall through?

Your only options for suitable hardware cloth to allow SHB to pass are #7 or #8 as other sizes (smaller numbers) allow bees through as well. #7 hardware cloth is quite difficult to find, so for most beeks #8 is the only practical choice.

Betterbee does show #7 hardware cloth on their website, but it has been "_out of stock_" for a long time. I don't know of any other source for reasonable quantities.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

I use screened bottom boards. I typically close them up for winter. But, I have left them open and had colonies come through winter strong.

Tom


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

personally.....the jury is still out when it comes to screened bottoms....but I am leaning heavily to going back to all solids.


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## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

I Have wintered them in TN and SC with SBB. Never had any problems. But I am going to solids this year for various reasons. I think they are overated as far as mite control.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

izybo said:


> I am thinking about trying some screened bottom boards but am concerned about leaving them on year round. I live in north central ohio and temps get below zero on occassion and we have been below freeaing most of the winter. I know I could build a bottom board with a solid removable panel but I am too lazy for that if I dont have to. Anybody have any info on how bees surive winter with an open bottom to the hive?


I was also too lazy to equip my SBB's with slot and removeable panel. For winter we slipped pieces of wood under the hive to reduce the wind. In retrospect, I wish I had not been so lazy, as a removeable feature is quite useful, not only for winterizing, but for mite counts.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

I get my #8 from the oldest hardware store that I could find. They had it on hand ..


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The guru of our beekeeper's association is reportedly so good at reading sticky-boards that she can tell you where the bees are and how they are doing just by a quick look. Wanting to learn that is why we got ours. I probably will need years to get as good.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

izybo,
I'm not too far from your location in Ohio and I would recommend closing off the bottoms for winter. If you are going to go through the effort of building them, spend a little extra time constructing them to accept trays. I've tried some of mine with open sbb all winter. They survived ok, but they are slower to build up in the Spring and tend to stay away from the bottom box which could end up being a problem in some cases.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I went my first couple of years with SBB completely open with 100% survival. I've found that, in the spring, open bottoms cause the bees to avoid using the bottom of the hive for raising brood, so I started closing them off. From now on, I'm going to solid.


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## cowdoc (May 15, 2011)

It looks like number 7 will be hard to get and very expensive. so will probably be "out of stock" for a long time. We can have 7X8 made special. We are thinking it is not worth it. 8 is readily available from us as well as many other suppliers and hardware stores. We sell 10 or 100 foot rolls or by the foot, just tell us how long you want it. 

[email protected]


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## ARGluck (Mar 10, 2013)

Can get some here. The experts would know better which to use. I make a removable screened bottom board and removable solid bottom board. If I decide I hate one I can flip it over (or just close it off for winter). It's definitely more work but I have solids, screened, slatted, and all kinds of combos for experimentation.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LF87AE/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I make my own SBB and in winter I slide in my corrugated IPM sheet.

I don't believe it should be open in the winter and early spring when brood rearing begins with small clusters and cold temperatures.


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## DC Bees (Sep 24, 2009)

I have SBB on most of my hives also. I keep them closed up for the winter and will open them up when the flow starts or when it starts getting hot. I have been thinking about changing some over to solid bottom boards just to see if they build up faster in the spring.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

I close mine up when overnight temps are <50F, but several years I've found a few hives I forgot and left open were doing great too.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Michael B said:


> I make my own SBB and in winter I slide in my corrugated IPM sheet.
> 
> I don't believe it should be open in the winter and early spring when brood rearing begins with small clusters and cold temperatures.


We have bought but have not yet used a pair of vented screened bottom boards equipped with Freeman beetle traps, sort of a plastic roasting pan you put vegetable oil in to drown any clumsy SHB, varroa, or apparently even the odd wax moth or two. You can substitute a corrugated board, too. It vents even with the board or tray installed, so I'll rig a means of blocking or reducing the vents in the coldest weather. We'll have the hives on a platform in either case, so the bottom was not going to be wide open.

How effective this arrangement is I don't know. I imagine seeing dead pests in it might be satisfying, but I'm told they can be messy. We'll operate in what I call the tiger cage, so hopefully bears, raccoons, and skunks won't mess with them.


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## Levi's Bees (Feb 7, 2014)

#8 1/8 x 1/8 hardware cloth is at Ace Hardware store if u have them $1.99 a foot


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

Interesting how mite screens have evolved over the years. They were originally designed at the Beltsville Bee Lab in 2000 to be used above a solid bottom board with a 1"-2" space between. Google 'Beltsville mite screen' for the history. 

But of course we beekeepers like to experiment and the next thing we know the mite screen became a bottom board itself used wide open with many promoting the extra ventilation it gives. Didn't take long for the manufacturers to pick up on that and now we have every kind of mite screen imaginable.

I use mite screens as originally designed as just one IPM method but I refuse to believe that a bee hive needs so much ventilation that a wide open screen provides, especially with the winter we are having now.


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## OBee (Mar 9, 2013)

You can order that size mesh from Amazon. That's what I did and it's a lot cheaper than at hardware stores, if you can even find it there.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The book says hives are supposed to be dark, so I've always wondered how open screened bottoms work. 

My guess is the bees don't read books anyway.

The Freeman trap sales pitch thinks beetles will congregate and breed below a screen if you just use a board.


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## drichards (Feb 1, 2014)

Levi's Bees said:


> need to know what size of screen is good to use. having a hard time finding #8 mesh thx for the help.


Levi,

I am working on a non intrusive varrora trap. I will be posting about. One contact thought #7 would be the best. I think regular bug screen would work. I will let you know more when I find out.

Thanks

Don


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I and other local club members have wintered hives with the bottoms open. My hives are on cinderblocks and for winter I enclose the cinderblocks with paver stones effectively creating a windblock but allowing some airflow. I close the bottom screen with inspection board during cold times. 

I would argue screened bottom and solid bottom make no difference on varrao population.


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## drichards (Feb 1, 2014)

burns375 said:


> I and other local club members have wintered hives with the bottoms open. My hives are on cinderblocks and for winter I enclose the cinderblocks with paver stones effectively creating a windblock but allowing some airflow. I close the bottom screen with inspection board during cold times.
> 
> I would argue screened bottom and solid bottom make no difference on varrao population.


I respectfully appreciate your opinion, but I hope from work that I have been involved with that I can show beekeepers how to nip this problem in the bud utilizing the boards with a natural attractant.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Cinnamaldehyde?


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

I am in Ohio and use SBB. My bees have wintered fine, and in close mine for the winter with a slide-in tray or inspection board. I have seen lots of strong opinions about screened vs solid, and haven't ever seen anything conclusive about which is better. 

There are four things about wintering with SBB that no one ever really mentions, but I think are real strong arguments in their favor: a) at any time during the winter I can pull the tray and see if the bees are still alive by looking for cappings dust; b) if I see sugar crystals on the tray, I know that they are into the sugar patties on the top bars and may not have any honey left or none nearby; c) I can see where in the hive they are by looking at the debris on the tray; and d) if there are lots of dead bees or snow that may clog the bottom entrance, I don't have to worry about ventilation. All this can be done by not opening the hive. 

I have one hive on a solid bottom board this winter and it really bothers me that none of the above advantages apply to it. I won't use a solid again.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Exactly ... we have a master beekeeper in the local association who does that and we want to learn to do it. Everybody raves about her skill at this.


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

Phoebe, if you were referring to my post, I assure you there is nothing to what I described. I pull those boards every week or two, and you can clearly see the lines of cappings that have fallen between the frames. Its really obvious, and there is no trick to it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael, Don here in the frigid northwest Nebraska. Do you use screened bottom boards? 

I have about half and half, solid and screened. My stands are only 3 1/2" off the ground so the grass usually blocks the bottoms. if there were issues of wind, I'd put the tray in.


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## drichards (Feb 1, 2014)

I think you made some valid points on using SBB. I think whenever you can check on what's going on in a hive without opening it up is definitely a plus!


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

i use them i planned on leaving them open all winter until i saw the polar vortex coming. i went out and wrapped feed bags around the bottom and up the sides. attached with duct tape. seems to be doing fine. i stand by them. we havent had any mite issues since using them and the bees seems to love them as well.


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## drichards (Feb 1, 2014)

tommysnare said:


> i use them i planned on leaving them open all winter until i saw the polar vortex coming. i went out and wrapped feed bags around the bottom and up the sides. attached with duct tape. seems to be doing fine. i stand by them. we havent had any mite issues since using them and the bees seems to love them as well.


Tommy, I designed a varrora screen trap that fits between a double brood chamber-palletized or not. Take a look at it by looking at my blog by searching shizel on google. Send me a private message with your thoughts. Thanks Don


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Even here, in warm/hot Tucson, Arizona, when I first switched to them (SBB's) I left them open, year-'round, but these past few years I've been closing them, by placing a piece of foamboard beneath them, so any air infiltration from below, is greatly reduced. I've had much better results this way, though I do open them up again, once our daytime temperatures are in the 90'sF, and no problems then.


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