# cutout comb orientation



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I always do, but as long as it is upside down or right side up and not sideways, the bees do not care most of the time. If it is already installed wrong it is too late to worry about it.


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

I try to always keep it upright. If you look at a comb from the side profile you'll note the cels slope upwards from base to face (foundation to caps). I've read that if you put it in upside down the bees will allow brood to hatch out of it but then won't use it anymore. Again I've only read this. The most important thing is to make sure you maintain proper bee space when everything gets moved around!


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

I put it in side ways because it fit nicely into the frame that way. That night I remembered that bees angle the cells slightly up, but I couldn't do anything about it for a while. It has been a couple of weeks. I need to check on them.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

We put one in sideways on accident and they never touched it, I finally put it in a super and it wasn't untill they had almost ran out of room before they started re working it they finally filled and capped it


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## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

It is rather important that the comb be put into a box in the same orentation that it came out of the nest. Not only up and down but left to right and in the same sequence. If you look through a cell at the bottom you will see a "peace symbol" (or a Y if you prefer); turn the comb around and look through the cell you will see an upside down symbol. All the comb on one side of the center comb will be orientated one way and the comb on the other side of center will be orientated the other way. I think all the "Y" face out from center but i could be mistaken.


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

I guess bees do what they want. I did the cutout on labor day, and when I checked them today they have a patch of capped brood and most of the rest is uncapped honey. It was almost all capped brood when I did the cutout. My son took some pics. I will post them later.


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

Here are some pics. I need to help my son with his photography.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Orientation is key to a successful, thriving hive especially after a cutout. The 10 degree slope upward keeps the all important nectar in the cell so it can be stored and finally capped as honey. Not to mention eggs, larvae and sometimes royal jelly.
If bees wont be able to use it the may just leave and start over..... yeah it's important.


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Orientation is key to a successful, thriving hive especially after a cutout. The 10 degree slope upward keeps the all important nectar in the cell so it can be stored and finally capped as honey. Not to mention eggs, larvae and sometimes royal jelly.
> If bees wont be able to use it the may just leave and start over..... yeah it's important.


I actually went to the hive to remove the cutout comb, but since they are using it, I guess I will remove it in the spring when they move up to the medium above it. It has 9 frames of of capped honey.


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

I had always read that the bees will still use the combs for honey/pollen, but the queen will not lay in them anymore. Sounds as if that's what's been observed here. Thanks for sharing!


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

Tom Brueggen said:


> I had always read that the bees will still use the combs for honey/pollen, but the queen will not lay in them anymore.



If that is true then that capped brood in the picture above is at least 35 days old.


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

Haha, touché. Maybe it is! Have you seen any of it hatch? I guess more importantly, are there eggs/larva in any of that comb now? Or is it ALL capped honey now? Granted that could be a product of back-filling and still not settle the argument.


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

I found no eggs, only capped brood and uncapped honey in the cutout frames. I hope this brood is recent or I may not have a queen.


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

If the capped brood is dead, the caps should appear sunken, and normally the live bees will remove them. Use a toothpick and open a few cells to see if the larva inside is still white and fresh or if it's dead/rotten. Or just check back after a couple weeks (the max length the brood is capped) and see if it's still capped or has hatched.


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks for the info. I am a new beek. I have learned a lot from this site.


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

Here is the best close up I have of the brood.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Michael Bush has a nice page summarizing bee brood development timing:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm


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## BeeThere (Jul 5, 2011)

hopeful said:


> Here is the best close up I have of the brood.
> View attachment 7956


I know I'm an old fart with bad eyes, but isn't that eggs in adjacent cells?


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

BeeThere said:


> I know I'm an old fart with bad eyes, but isn't that eggs in adjacent cells?


I hadn't noticed that. The picture has so much glare in it, I just assumed it was glare. I wished I had more experience inspecting. I wish I had someone close to teach me.


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## BeeThere (Jul 5, 2011)

hopeful said:


> I hadn't noticed that. The picture has so much glare in it, I just assumed it was glare. I wished I had more experience inspecting. I wish I had someone close to teach me.


Check to see where your closest Bee Association or Club is and try to connect with them. Read, read and did I mention read, all you can on the subject. This site has tons of support, here is the USDA info on this site; http://www.beesource.com/resources/usda/

Just remember the Bees have been doing this much longer than we've been manipulating them. Good Luck...


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

I remembered that most of the frames I looked at had uncapped honey, so I looked at another picture I have of that frame, and I think those white spots are the sun's glare on the honey in the cells. I would like to take another look, but the high is in the 50's here today.



BeeThere said:


> Check to see where your closest Bee Association or Club is and try to connect with them. Read, read and did I mention read, all you can on the subject. This site has tons of support, here is the USDA info on this site; http://www.beesource.com/resources/usda/


Thanks for the link. This site has a lot of information. 
I haven't found a bee association closer that four hours from me. If there was one close, I would be there. There are no beekeepers in my county, but I am still searching for someone within an hour of me.


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## BeeThere (Jul 5, 2011)

hopeful said:


> Here is the best close up I have of the brood.
> View attachment 7956


 Okay, if you say its a glimmering shine from honey, but if you count from the bottom left full shaped cells try looking at this one. Look five to the right and its capped then look at the next one, now to me that don't look like honey shine. Eggs are easier to see in dark colored comb than lighter comb for sure. But remember I said my eyes are poorly...good luck!


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

It does look like an egg. I wish I had taken some video. I will have to do a better job inspecting and documenting next time. Every time I take my bee suit off I think of something I wish I had done.


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## hopeful (Oct 23, 2012)

Every time I checked the hive sine then, I only found drone brood. They were still alive but weak (only 3 frames of bees) in June. I needed the hardware for another cutout, so I dumped them out. They clustered up in a woodpile, but after a few days they were gone.


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