# How fast will a new hive build out?



## AAIndigo (Jun 14, 2015)

I'm in the process of building a 48" long Langstroth TBH. I will put this into production next spring. I have been reading through the TBH forum and saw a post were someone had 2 packages of bees coming and he wanted to know what to do. One of the suggestions was to split the hive in half and run 2 hives in one TBH. 

Being a NBK, and seeing how my first year hive struggled to build 2 deeps this year I'm very intrigued by this Idea.

So how long does it take to build out a 48L x 19W x 6 5/8D TBH? 

Does splitting it in half with 2 packages make sense?

I'm guessing I can always move 1 into a standard Langstroth if they expand at record speed or keep them as 2 hives if they are slow in their 1st year

This will be a foundation-less hive with SC starter. I do not have any older comb to add to the mix.

AA


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

1 strong hive will produce more than two smaller hives(research Dr. Delaplame and Powers studies separately) which would equal the same strength. It has to do with the division of labor within a hive in relation to how many bees are tied up caring for brood. Time to build up in any hive is impacted by forage or feed, available protein from pollen or supplement, average mean temperature (ie bees build comb much faster at 75f than 65 ff), hours of sunlight(circadian rythms), hive configurations for example as,yo mention no comb.and genetics so it depends on many factors.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Build an extra top bar like you plan but make 3 small ones with no legs or roof. (18" long-ish) The small ones are nucs. You'll know why you have them when you need them. It's going to happen, just do it. Make bars too.


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## AAIndigo (Jun 14, 2015)

aunt betty said:


> Build an extra top bar like you plan but make 3 small ones with no legs or roof. (18" long-ish) The small ones are nucs. You'll know why you have them when you need them. It's going to happen, just do it. Make bars too.


Why no top?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I tried to run 2 colonies in my 45" long TBH this spring and they never really did well. One side was a spring package. The other was a nuc that I overwintered. For me, it seemed that the queen's scent interfered with the other colony. One side was always dinky compared to the other. Once I finally split them away from eachother, they both did better. Just my experience from one year though. 

To answer the original question, how long does it take to fill a full hive, probably about a year if you have a really good spring flow. You will be amazed at how quickly the bees can build the comb. I would recommend a follower board to only give them about 10-12 bars of space to start with. And then weekly, you will add empty bars between drawn bars in the brood nest. This lets you get straight comb throughout the hive. (You have to get a feel for how many to add, because you don't want the baby bees to get chilled). Comb building will continue into July for your area, especially if you are feeding them syrup after the main nectar flow decreases. The first year is all about getting the drawn comb. Then the 2nd year, you can plan on splitting the hive and giving the split half the drawn comb and both hives will go gang busters.


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## lobudget (Mar 8, 2015)

ruthiesbees said:


> To answer the original question, how long does it take to fill a full hive, probably about a year if you have a really good spring flow. You will be amazed at how quickly the bees can build the comb. I would recommend a follower board to only give them about 10-12 bars of space to start with. And then weekly, you will add empty bars between drawn bars in the brood nest. This lets you get straight comb throughout the hive. (You have to get a feel for how many to add, because you don't want the baby bees to get chilled). Comb building will continue into July for your area, especially if you are feeding them syrup after the main nectar flow decreases. The first year is all about getting the drawn comb. Then the 2nd year, you can plan on splitting the hive and giving the split half the drawn comb and both hives will go gang busters.


This is solid advice. 

This is my first year and I also have a 48" Top Bar. You'll likely need to gain quite a bit of patience. Learning to handle and manipulate new comb from the start of a new Top Bar was a bit frustrating for me at first. I broke/destroyed about 3 combs over the first couple of weeks trying to get them straight. Once they have about 10 straight combs built out and you do like Ruthie said things pick up and start go get a hole lot more fun. 

Mine have managed to fill the hive to about 6" from the end and I'm hopeful for their survival, although I'd prefer them to have a bit more stored honey.


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## typhoontx (May 1, 2013)

I have 2 , 48" long hives, 1st year 1 package used little over half the first summer, the 2nd hive I started this year has already used 3/4 of the hive space, I think putting 2 hives in 1 48" tbh is going to get crowded fairly fast in their 2nd season and cause them to swarm unless you split them.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

It all depends on the yr and the bees I had 2 may 1 packages started on 4 drawn combs a piece and initially fed 1 gal of syrup both drew out double deeps and almost 2 full supers and I was able to harvest honey from both have a yr like than and one colony will quickly fill out a full TBH if you wanted to insure you got a full one start one in a full size hive and one in a nuc that holds about 12 bars when it is well on its way pull bars of capped brood and boost the full size hive you could end up with harvestable honey quit robbing the nuc by July to let them finish building out


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

It depends on the bees, when they are hived, and under what circumstances. Have two top bars and they are incredibly slow to build up but it's because I gave them weak swarms. 

On the other hand I have hived large 8-10 pound swarms into langs just this year in late-august and early september that have filled up two deeps with combs and the top one with honey. It's amazing what a large swarm can do in a few weeks "if there is a flow". 

Beekeeping has been very (extremely) rewarding for me this season.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I have seen numerous people talk about putting two colonies into one top bar hive but I have a major issue with it. It could be that my logic is impaired from old age but I doubt it. When the day comes and you have to move one of the colonies out of the hive (and it will happen), how do you deal with all of the bees trying to get back to their original home? Moving them from one hive to another will leave all of the foragers going back to the old opening in the original hive, not to the new hive. How does that make any sense? Perhaps someone with experience can straighten me out on this.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

It really depends on the fecundity of the queen and the flows in your area. For me I have never had big growth the first year, but Katie bar the door after overwintering them. They hit all the spring flows the second year and grow very quickly if you have a good queen and good spring flows. 

If I had no room I would put two hives in one box, but I have plenty of nucs, so that isn't a problem for me. Plus if I did that with my luck they would both fill up their half and swarm.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

AAIndigo said:


> So how long does it take to build out a 48L x 19W x 6 5/8D TBH?


That's a bit shallow = the equivalent of a medium lang. You've got 30 bars more or less in 48 inches long. I'd expect a healthy hive to go well past mid-way the first year. My langs will usually build 24 medium frames their first year. With 11 1/2 inch deep sides, I can split my TB hives for first year colonies but they will explode and need to be split before queens are available.


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

Butt the new hive up to the old one, so the entrance is kinda where the old one was, and facing the same direction. As long as it's within a few feet facing the same direction and smells like home they're fine.

See how easy that was?

Bwahahaha


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Other possible options-
Kill the weaker queen and remove the center divider-
Make a nuc from the weaker side and remove the center divider-
Just remove the center divider and let the hive operate as a two queen hive until the bees decide to eliminate one-

It might be useful to provide a temporary membrane (newspaper or such) in place of the center divider to smooth the transition.

I realise that this leaves the hive in an unnatural state with a divided brood nest but I bet the bees sort that out.

I'm just guessing here, never done this.
Bill


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

whiskers said:


> Other possible options-
> Kill the weaker queen and remove the center divider-
> Make a nuc from the weaker side and remove the center divider-
> Just remove the center divider and let the hive operate as a two queen hive until the bees decide to eliminate one-
> ...


Not sure about this. All that I have read says that if you just take out the divider and leave the Queen you will have fighting, no ?
If you kill the other queen, you will need a paper barrier till they get used to the new queen scent.

Not sure I would want to lose all the other bees.


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