# Early Season Split Strategy Question



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

what are the 30 queens for?
splits? or re queening?

so what is wrong with splitting in July when the weather is better and you have drones?
can use 20 for production and 10 for splitting.
I presume you do have swarms. Can you watch the hives to see which one swarms?
Often you then open it and find many (20-30) capped cells.

Or find a queen producer who will agree to send you queens early.
So order 15 for early for the biggest hives and then 15 6 weeks later.
if you have a few extra either over winter in the side by side NUC set up or sell a few NUCs locally, or cancel the second order..

GG


----------



## PDubbe (Apr 25, 2018)

Gray Goose said:


> what are the 30 queens for?
> splits? or re queening?
> 
> so what is wrong with splitting in July when the weather is better and you have drones?
> ...


Thanks for the quick reply GG, I appreciate the insight. The 30 queens (hypothetically) would be for mostly splitting and possibly a few requeenings where needed. There is nothing wrong with splitting in July but I don't like hives getting too big before our main flows start here. Local nuc producers typically don't do pick ups until early June to have sufficient drones. So I am leaning towards purchasing queens to stay on top of it. Right now my only options are really to stack extra boxes on my double deeps until I can have queens to split. I will have to start reaching out to producers to see if I can get on their list for next year.


----------



## bendriftin (Nov 1, 2010)

You should look into Mike Palmer's strategy. That is what I am gearing up for. It allows for making nucs in the spring/summer and over wintering them. That way you have mated queens in nucs that you can use. You have a single box split in 2, so you can then take one of the queens for your new split, do a newpaper combine on the nucs. You have just split your big hive, built a another strong hive out of the 2 nucs/ combined. You may need to make another split a bit later just to prevent swarming but you can do that when queens are more readily available. Also, I want some fresh queens in the fall, for most of my hives, I think they tapper off the 2nd spring buildup. Fresh fall queens won't have to lay a huge amount of brood before next spring.


----------



## coalsmok (Jan 27, 2017)

bendriftin said:


> You should look into Mike Palmer's strategy. That is what I am gearing up for. It allows for making nucs in the spring/summer and over wintering them. That way you have mated queens in nucs that you can use. You have a single box split in 2, so you can then take one of the queens for your new split, do a newpaper combine on the nucs. You have just split your big hive, built a another strong hive out of the 2 nucs/ combined. You may need to make another split a bit later just to prevent swarming but you can do that when queens are more readily available. Also, I want some fresh queens in the fall, for most of my hives, I think they tapper off the 2nd spring buildup. Fresh fall queens won't have to lay a huge amount of brood before next spring.


I’m working on this also. Going to run 8 of the double nucs and a few weak singles this winter over double screen boards if things go good this summer. 
I think to get early queens you need to be calling the Florida queen producers in January with what you hope to need. I got in with a California queen supplier this spring for last week by the skin of my teeth in March. Everyone else was sold out already for this early.


----------



## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

bendriftin said:


> You should look into Mike Palmer's strategy. That is what I am gearing up for. It allows for making nucs in the spring/summer and over wintering them. That way you have mated queens in nucs that you can use. You have a single box split in 2, so you can then take one of the queens for your new split, do a newpaper combine on the nucs. You have just split your big hive, built a another strong hive out of the 2 nucs/ combined. You may need to make another split a bit later just to prevent swarming but you can do that when queens are more readily available. Also, I want some fresh queens in the fall, for most of my hives, I think they tapper off the 2nd spring buildup. Fresh fall queens won't have to lay a huge amount of brood before next spring.


I have wintered 5-frame nucs here, near Chicago, so it is possible in some pretty cold and long winters. The only winterizing I did was to place a second nuc on top which was stuffed with insulation, and a sugar block in top the frames.


----------



## OLD KENTUCKY (Feb 18, 2021)

AR1 said:


> I have wintered 5-frame nucs here, near Chicago, so it is possible in some pretty cold and long winters. The only winterizing I did was to place a second nuc on top which was stuffed with insulation, and a sugar block in top the frames.


I assume all frames in your nuc were full of honey, with the exception of a couple. Why did you put an insulated nuc on top of the nuc. Was it open to the bottom nuc. Please explain, since I haven't had any luck getting my nucs through. Thanks, Old Kentucky


----------



## bendriftin (Nov 1, 2010)

I have not done this with nucs yet, but I built a 4" box with screen wire on the bottom, filled with wood shavings, then a luan top. The idea of this, is to provide some insulation yet will allow moisture to migrate through, if it condenses on the top then it should be absorbed by the shavings, thus preventing it from dripping on the bees. I plan to do the same with my nucs this winter. I also plan to use a divided ten frame box to make 2 four frame nucs and 4 frame deep nuc boxes as a double on each one. Mike Palmer does it very similar.


----------



## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

OLD KENTUCKY said:


> I assume all frames in your nuc were full of honey, with the exception of a couple. Why did you put an insulated nuc on top of the nuc. Was it open to the bottom nuc. Please explain, since I haven't had any luck getting my nucs through. Thanks, Old Kentucky


I put the sugar blocks on because the frames were empty and the bees needed food. On top of that I put a nuc, stuffed full of insulation, so the bees would have a warm, comfy place to make their winter ball, directly under the sugar, under the insulation.


----------

