# Would top Bar Hives work in Canada?



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

Greetings! 

I have been reading recently about TBH's. The basic concepts of them pleases me, and fit in quite nicely with my actual desires. I would like to have bees, and to take care of them as my pets, and where I live it seems a bit difficult to protect them from natural enemies. 

I have seen several designs that have windows to observe, and this also fits with my childlike facination of things. 

I have a very safe spot for a hive, or two, of this sort on the front of my deck on a shelf that for years I have been filling with baskets of hanging flowers. Actually, there is room behind the flower pots for the hives, and for the flowers to continue uninterupted. 

This location, by the fact that it is elevated by about five feet from ground level, would protect the hives from skunks and mice. (I think) 

The bears remain a problem though. I believe that in my past investigations, that a bear fence could be put up, of the type that I could turn off, mow the lawn, and then put back in place. 

Has anyone else struggled with these types of things?....and what has been your success and failures in this attempt. 

Of course Bitter cold is a problem here, but I am wondering if my hives could be moved to my basement during the winter. The basement is not heated, but the furnace and water heater are down there, and they both seem to throw enough heat to keep the area from becoming perma-frosted! ;-) 

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sure. Bees move sideways just as well as they move up. I've had no trouble overwintering top bar hives here and Dennis Murrel overwinters them in the Rocky Mountains of Wyoming. There are top bar hive keepers in Canada.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

Thanks Micheal! 

Most helpful. Here is my next question, if you have the time to answer. How precise, how difficult, how complicated is it to construct the top bars for these types of hives. 

I have read conflicting things on this. 

I have a good son, with minimal woodworking abilities. Is this within his ability to build? I know that he would have no difficulty building the box and cover

...But I an not sure what is needed to build the top bars, nor can I understand yet the pieces that restrict the size of the hive....back board I think that it is called. 

Earlier today I found this book. I am wondering if it would be helpful. 

Top Bar Hive Construction 
http://www.amazon.com/Top-Hive-Cons...8584135?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175304458&sr=8-1


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How precise, how difficult, how complicated is it to construct the top bars for these types of hives.

The only thing that needs to be at all precise is the width of the top bars and even they vary depending on preferences. I like 1 1/4" for brood and 1 1/2" for honey, because that's what the bees seem to make anyway. Some prefer 1 3/8" for everything. That's not very precise is it?

>I have a good son, with minimal woodworking abilities. Is this within his ability to build?

If you have a table saw and minimal skills you can build a top bar hive. If you have a skil saw and very good skills you can build a top bar hive. If you have determination and a hand saw, you can build a top bar hive.

> I know that he would have no difficulty building the box and cover

If you can build one bar, you can build 33 of them. 

>...But I an not sure what is needed to build the top bars, nor can I understand yet the pieces that restrict the size of the hive....back board I think that it is called.

Follower board? I have not built one, but they would be a "nice to have". They are certainly not essential.

>Earlier today I found this book. I am wondering if it would be helpful.
>Top Bar Hive Construction
http://www.amazon.com/Top-Hive-Const...5304458&sr=8-1

I don't think they are complicated enough to require a book.

Here's enough info to build one:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

My KTBH is just four pieces of one by 12 and one piece of one by six. None of them ripped. Then 33 bars cut from a one by. Most of them are one by twos that can be just cut to length. Half are ripped to 1 1/4". All have a comb guide on them. That's probably the trickiest cut, but it's just a corner cut off a one by at 45 degrees.


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

My son will be back from his studys in about three weeks.

He likes to work with his hands. 

We will let you know how we are making out. If it is possible, when needed, your help would be appreciated. 

Sasha


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

OY! 

Micheal, I already have a question. In your link it says....
*
The top bars are ripped from one bys with a beveled comb guide glued and nailed on
*
Can you tell me what a "beveled comb guide" is, that should be glued and nailed on? 

Sorry to be such a pest.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Can you tell me what a "beveled comb guide" is, that should be glued and nailed on? 

Any foundationless system needs a comb guide:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

Currently I cut the corner off of a one by and get a triangle about 1" by 3/4" by 3/4". This is glued and nailed in the center of the bottom of the top bar.

Or you can buy them here:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208777


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

*Pets/ 5 feet up*

The last thing bees are: pets. They are not warm and cuddly, they can not follow your orders, they can be mean and vicious, , they can not sleep in your bed and keep you warm, they can't take a ride to the beach with you or go on vacation with you, they can and will die at a drop of a pin, often with the first year of becoming your "pets". 
You can't work bees that are up on top of a five foot high shelf unless you are eight feet tall.
Keeping bees is SO MUCH MORE than having a pet dog or cat, I suggest you educate yourself fully before undertaking this venture. I own thousands of dollars of beekeeping equipment left to me by other persons thinking they were getting a few more pets.


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

Greetings odfrank!

You wrote....

The last thing bees are: pets. They are not warm and cuddly, they can not follow your orders, they can be mean and vicious, , they can not sleep in your bed and keep you warm, they can't take a ride to the beach with you or go on vacation with you, they can and will die at a drop of a pin, often with the first year of becoming your "pets".
You can't work bees that are up on top of a five foot high shelf unless you are eight feet tall.
Keeping bees is SO MUCH MORE than having a pet dog or cat, I suggest you educate yourself fully before undertaking this venture. I own thousands of dollars of beekeeping equipment left to me by other persons thinking they were getting a few more pets.

You are the exact type of person that I hope to hear from in this forum! Please stay in touch!....please watch over me!


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

Thanks Micheal!

As always, you offer helpful and practical advice!


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

........As an aside, My daughter who is training for public, and environmental health, has given me her blessing to have as many dang hives as I want.....What she asks of me is this, that nothing be introduce to them in any way.,...chemicals.....And my son agrees, who is training for the police force. He also agrees to do the labor and build me the hives.

Will I go against my children in this?....Not friggin likely!!!!


----------



## pcooley (Apr 18, 2006)

Bees might not be pets, but I spend a great deal more time sitting in a lawn chair in front of my hives than I do playing with my dogs. The bees are just so darn fascinating.

That said, I have found them to be much more work than I initially imagined. My one hive swarmed frequently last year, with the result that I now have three active hives and three empty ones ready for splits.

I have never found my bees to be vicious, but I do work them slowly and carefully. In all my year of beekeeping, I was stung once, and in that instance, it was well deserved.

Most of my hives are two to three feet off the ground and along my back wall. I couldn't imagine having a hive on my porch. That would be a little too close for my family and for the bees.


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

Greetings pcooley, 

*
That said, I have found them to be much more work than I initially imagined. My one hive swarmed frequently last year, with the result that I now have three active hives and three empty ones ready for splits.*

Are your hives Top Bar Hives? The first thought I had when I read your post was , "Wow, he must be doing something right!" After reading so many articles about CCD, it is nice to hear that bees are alive and thriving! 

The work that is more than you had expected, is this day to day up keep of the hives, or is a direct result of your active bees?
*
I couldn't imagine having a hive on my porch. That would be a little too close for my family and for the bees.*

I have been reading another thread in the forum. It has made me realize that the deck location that I had been considering?....would be a HUGE mistake for both the bees, and the rest of the family. The potential home for the bees has been returned waaaaaaay over there, up the hill!


----------



## pcooley (Apr 18, 2006)

The amount of work last year was enhanced by the amount my bees were swarming. I had to go out and catch those swarms, and then I had to stay up late into the night building hives to hive the swarms. This spring, I have three occupied hives, and three empty hives, so I am better positioned in terms of housing swarms or making splits from the hives I have.

Top bar hives also need to be inspected more frequently. This time of year, I try to check busy hives almost weekly. Traditional beekeeping books will tell you to leave hives alone, that checking them interrupts their work. However, I've found that conditions with my hives, at least, change too quickly to leave them alone. A week and a half ago, for example, there were no queen cups on the comb of my two busy hives, but they were beginning to seem a little crowded. I took some leftover fall honey out of the smaller one. (My first hive was three feet long -- far too small -- my subsequent hives have all been four feet long). Yesterday, I checked them, and there are plenty of queen cups being built, but I didn't see any eggs. Tomorrow, I'm going to build another four foot hive and move the bees out of the three foot hive, probably making a split in the process, but the fruit trees are beginning to bloom. Do I split them, and cut down on the foraging force, or do I keep them together in the hopes of more honey and risk their swarming? (I try to control swarming so my neighbors don't get worried. It's an awesome thing, a swarm). At any rate, I have to keep checking the queen cups to see if the bees are beginning to raise queens in them, in which case I have to make a split.

There's a lot of things to watch for and keep track of. When I started last year, I thought I could more or less dump the bees in a top bar hive and come back in a couple of months and harvest the honey. And of course, you could do that, but you might lose a lot to swarming and alarm your neighbors if you live in the suburbs as I do. Keeping bees, particularly in top bar hives, requires a good deal of vigilance. I, for one, enjoy the challenge, but it's not as simple as it may at first seem.


----------



## snowglobe (Mar 22, 2007)

pcooley, 

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. 

After reading it, I found the button that let me bring up all of the threads that you have started in this forum. I read them all, starting from Easter 2006. All I can say is this..." OH MY GOSH!"    

It was like reading the Chronicles of "Pcooly's Excellent Adventure".  

Between all of your difficulties, and all of the advice that you recieved through them, I feel that I have a far better idea of what you meant in your post above, and what is involved setting out as a newbie into the world of TBH's. 

Thanks!


----------

