# Another typical foundationless disaster



## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

I'll take all of those stupid bees off your hands, especially the queens!


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Look to me - great brood!


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## TNTBEES (Apr 14, 2012)

I think I would give that hive away and see if you can start one that is a bit more of a challenge. What's the fun in perfection?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Cut it off and make em start over. you might try hanging the page from the book with the picture in their hive.

Nice looking bar.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Nice even age brood. From the wax color, this looks to be the first cohort of brood on the comb. 
What is the cell gauge ?


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

So pretty! It looks like you're using a longer bar, maybe 19" with a 10" depth? I'm thinking of changing the dimensions of my next one.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Nice looking bar. I have been transitioning to FL this year, I use langs. I have only had one instance of crosscombing, other than that I am more than happy. I dont see foundation in my future. G


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

JWChesnut said:


> Nice even age brood. From the wax color, this looks to be the first cohort of brood on the comb.
> What is the cell gauge ?


Have not measured, this was a swarm we captured in early June, so this bar (when not fully built) probably had a small portion of brood already through it. But they're getting into their second big "hatch" so you are probably correct for the most part. They came from a few year old colony in a tree. I do want to compare cell size between our packages and our swarms at some point this year. Just for the heck of it.



msscha said:


> So pretty! It looks like you're using a longer bar, maybe 19" with a 10" depth? I'm thinking of changing the dimensions of my next one.


Bar is 20" long 18" inside dimension with modified Les Crowder design. It is only about 7" deep or so. 

I have transfered a couple of swarms from top bar nucs into deep Langs, they're building them out to depth well. Still just minor pinching on the ends of the comb every couple weeks seems to be all it takes. And a couple hives not even that.


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## cristianNiculae (Jul 2, 2013)

Nice.
I'm a fan too. The latest frames I've put into the hives have no bottom bar(lang deeps)... will see what happens .
It's so easy to make them, you can even make them on the fly while inspecting: ups I need a frame give me 5 minutes . (3 straight wood bars, 2 spacers and that's it;32 mm frame spacing). I usually put them in the middle of the brood nest so I don't get much drone comb.


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## thebalvenie (Feb 25, 2013)

cristianNiculae said:


> Nice.
> I'm a fan too. The latest frames I've put into the hives have no bottom bar(lang deeps)... will see what happens .
> It's so easy to make them, you can even make them on the fly while inspecting: ups I need a frame give me 5 minutes . (3 straight wood bars, 2 spacers and that's it;32 mm frame spacing). I usually put them in the middle of the brood nest so I don't get much drone comb.


agree w/ the rest...i would pour gas on the hive and throw a match on it and start over...this hive is a goner!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

biggraham610 said:


> Nice looking bar. I have been transitioning to FL this year, I use langs. I have only had one instance of crosscombing, other than that I am more than happy. I dont see foundation in my future. G
> View attachment 12674


I've put a couple of swarms we caught this spring from top bar nucs into 10 frame deep Langs. They're building them out nicely, this is a picture from a week or so ago.









I will admit that it was not all roses in all the hives, but three (two Carniolan one "feral" swarm) of the four TBHs have drawn great comb. The Italian hive has not done all that well. Mostly due to untimely spacing of the broodnest by me. Spaced towards the end of supercedure with a very good flow going. They built the honey bands on tops of the bars around the spaced parts out really wide. I did the same thing to one of the Carniolan hives and they did not do anything like that.

So we went in and fixed those problems on Saturday:


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## estreya (Apr 20, 2014)

Ha! Fixed them indeed! Lovely jars of honey. Is it tasty? Are you pleased?

I wonder if we'll get any honey out of our hives next year. I hope so!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

estreya said:


> Ha! Fixed them indeed! Lovely jars of honey. Is it tasty? Are you pleased?
> 
> I wonder if we'll get any honey out of our hives next year. I hope so!


This is a first year hive, but we simply couldn't leave it the way it was. We didn't even take 1/10th of what they've got I don't think, and we only took cappings from really thick combs and some smaller areas of goofed up stuff. Flow appears to still be going OK here. Could have used a bit of rain to refresh some of the stuff, but it's been good, I think.


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## mrobinson (Jan 20, 2012)

> "We didn't even take 1/10th of what they've got, I don't think"


... and, I never do. If you take what is simply _very clearly_ a surplus, and leave a generous supply for them to more-than last through the winter, you can enjoy season upon season of beekeeping, with, really, very little effort. You'll have more than enough truly-delicious honey for your morning-muffins, and for your friends. You'll be surprised at how early they _(the bees, that is, not your friends ...)_ start harvesting, come the earliest signs of spring. When the very-first flowers and clovers start to appear, "there they are."


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

JWChesnut said:


> Nice even age brood. From the wax color, this looks to be the first cohort of brood on the comb.
> What is the cell gauge ?


This is not the same exact swarm, but from a swarm caught two days earlier on the exact same fence post. I did not have assistance last night, so I only pulled the one frame that I spaced the broodnest with weeks ago and there was a flow going. Cells look like they are about 5.4mm? Next time I have some help I'm going to do some more looking around/measuring, just out of curiosity. Truthfully, I don't care much. What's interesting to me is how small 4.9mm cells must look.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Uh oh, I hope your wife doesn't see that photo! I saw one of those funny looking rulers on my wife's sewing machine. She told me to keep walkin'.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

shannonswyatt said:


> Uh oh, I hope your wife doesn't see that photo! I saw one of those funny looking rulers on my wife's sewing machine. She told me to keep walkin'.


:lpf: and i bet you kept steppin...G....


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)




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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes the cells are 5.4. People usually measure a few different places & different angles to get a kind of average although just by eyeball, looks like most of the comb is similar.

My bees tend to build around 5.3 if making their own comb.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

shannonswyatt said:


> Uh oh, I hope your wife doesn't see that photo! I saw one of those funny looking rulers on my wife's sewing machine. She told me to keep walkin'.


She doesn't give a rip.


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## VeeBee (Aug 8, 2014)

I will be TBH-iving come Sprint 2015 - can't wait.

In the meantime, I just have to say - I find the combs made 'au naturel' are so beautiful. I continue to be mind boggled by the skill these fascinating little creatures exhibit.

Thanks for sharing the pictures!


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

VeeBee said:


> I find the combs made 'au naturel' are so beautiful. I continue to be mind boggled by the skill these fascinating little creatures exhibit.


I was so proud of my girls: this was one of the first combs they built at the beginning of this summer. It really is amazing.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I measured a few other combs yesterday from one of the swarms we caught that ended up swarming and not successfully getting a queen mated. Right at 10 in 2". 5.08mm.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

is that the target 10 at anything under 2"? I wondered how that scale worked. G


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The first one I started at the "10" and went down since it seemed to be right on a cell wall, and it looks like 4.8mm. The second looks like 5.25mm. (hard to know were to start so I started at 1.25 and it ended on 6.50 for 5.25mm)


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