# Whats the worse Apivar can do?



## Zephyr (May 4, 2016)

Just removed 2 strips but I could of sworn I put in 4 & early on 2 had fallen through. Went frame by frame but guess there was only 2. If thats true, I know that means I should avoid Apivar from now on since they were undertreated and thats exactly how resistance is created. But what if I really did miss the other 2 somehow and they get left in until spring?


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

It's happened to me a few times already. The strips fell for months at the bottom of the hives. The colony did not collapse / the bees did not become intoxicated and varroas did not become resistant to apivar.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Been there done that. I did not see any bad effect. Leaving them in all winter does increase the chances of resistance developing so it is not a good idea. I am not going to hang the strips from the tab anymore. I think that is what causes them to fall between the frames and end up on the bottom board. Instead I am going to hang them with a round toothpick, flat toothpicks are not strong enough. The strips already have a hole in them for this. The strips hang straighter with the toothpick too.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

Dave Burrup said:


> Leaving them in all winter does increase the chances of resistance developing so it is not a good idea. /QUOTE]
> If a sub lethal dose causes resistance why are our bees not all resistant to neonics? People are claiming many of our hives have sub lethal doses of neonics. Or, is it just possible that science actually says sub lethal doses has very little to nothing at all to do with resistance development?


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## bee keeper chef (Nov 1, 2015)

I treated in mid July with apivar and removed them before the fall flow but when I was checking on my nucs in mid October I found a strip I missed the wax under the strip was completely gone all the way down to the foundation. Not sure why they removed the wax but they did. I usually use a finish nail through the strip and hang between the frames it makes it way easier to see where I have placed the strip and if the brood nest shifts I can move the strip far easier


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Richard how do you know that our bees are not becoming resistant to neonics? Some of us have bees in a sea of neonic crops and have no problem keeping healthy bees if we control the mites. I know of a queen producer that has amazingly fine bees, but there is little influence from agriculture around the production area. I wish I had the money to do a trial with the queens vs queens produced in the typical northern Cal. agriculture zone. I think the development of at least tolerance is the reason locally produced bees fair better than bees brought in from other areas.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Is there any data on how much the strips release after the recommended treatment time? I figure they stop releasing at some point so I tend to not worry about it, but I figure there is a ramp down period of sub lethal release as well, just not sure if there's a point where it stops to matter.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Put them in & they may contaminate the wax/comb. Leave them in & they may promote resistant mites. It won't likely have an adverse effect on the bees, nor cause the mites to become immediately resistant but any mites that do survive will likely have begun to developed a tolerance. If you are going to use them, follow the directions. Alternate mite treatment methods to reduce the likelihood of promoting mite resistance.


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## Forgiven (Nov 17, 2016)

Yes... resistances are not that difficult to understand if you think about it.
Whether it's for bacteria against antibiotics, varroa against treatment x, bees against neonics...

Anything that survives treatment does it so by either a) being most tolerant or b) by pure luck of less exposure.
If you treat with dosage that does not kill 'all' that come in contact with it, you end up with stock of mites/bacteria/xx that could survive up to that dosage, those that couldn't died even with lower dosage. In general it's not the same mite/bacteria/x that is the problem. It's the fact their offspring will now come from the pool that survive previous treatment, thus more resistent to it via genetics.

Now, it's quite possible, that for some treatments there does not exist a resistence, and it's down to luck which ones die, which ones survive (say in case of mites, being out of the hive on the belly of a flying bee outside while the hive is treated, being inside brood cell while treatment is on, being in part of the hive that for reason or another does not get deadly dose..) but a lot of things used to treat varroa have become useless via varroa gaining tolerance against it... 
You are not just playing with your bees and their mites, create resistent varroa strain and your neighbors will get it too, and then the whole country. Do not fool around with instructions, use them as they are supposed to be used.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

This is an opinion that seems to me very well founded on the alleged resistance of the mites to the Apivar / amitraz:https://realbeescience.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/is-amitraz-resistance-in-varroa-real/

I center again the question of the resistance of the mites to this particular product because OP is treating with Apivar.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> I center again the question of the resistance of the mites to this particular product because OP is treating with Apivar.


I believe it Randy Oliver who also points out the benefit of alternating various types of treatments to avoid propagating resistant mites.
One of many informative articles: http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-arsenal-our-choice-of-chemical-weapons/


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Colobee said:


> benefit of alternating various types of treatments to avoid propagating resistant mites.


I can easily agree with that.

Another issue is propagating resistance by two strips fallen on the bottom of the hive for a few months.

I think the OP will be very calm with the words of Randy Oliver:"Despite being continuously exposed to slow-release amitraz (applied as Apivar strips three times over the course of 8 months), we could see no difference in colony buildup, overwintering success, or queen survivability due to treatment. We also found Apivar to be effective at controlling varroa levels." (http://scientificbeekeeping.com/no-negative-effect-from-extended-exposure-to-amitraz/)


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