# Buckfast Bees



## poprivet (Sep 26, 2000)

Buckfast bees need to be requeened every year. My teacher was a buckfast man. He requeened every year. Buckfast bees tend to get mean after the first year........Poprivet.....Dave Cook


----------



## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I have colonies of Buckfast that have superseded their queens for the last 5 years and they can be worked with no smoke and no vail. If you want good Buckfast buy from the queen breeders in Canada.


----------



## Apple Farmer (Apr 14, 2009)

I saw a youtube video showing how gentle the Buckfast bees are, I can only wish my were as gentle as those in the video. I think it was a Canadian beek in the video.
I looked into Canadian suppliers and I didn't want to pay the import fee from Canada so I went with a supplier in Texas. Lesson learned! Oh well it's my first year as a beek and what better way to learn than experiance. Maybe next year when I have more hives I'll give the Canadian Buckfast a try. I have to say they have filled three deep brood boxes and I haven't found a swarm or supercedure cell, yet. Just hate to work around them mean girls when there are nice girls a few steps away!
AR Beekeeper if you have a supplier of GENTLE buckfast in Canada could you e-mail me the contact information. 
Thanks all for your input.
Omer


----------



## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Apple Farmer,
Do you think maybe the rain and lack of "nectar flow" we've had lately could have caused them to be a "little" meaner. I had cells shipped from FL this year and it was done on short notice so I told David Miksa([email protected] or 352-429-3447) to send what he could. When they arrived the cell holder said "Buckfast". I called him to see if that was what they were and he told me "Canadian(Ontario) Buckfast". So far they have all been very gentle but they are still in 5 frame deep nucs.


----------



## bnatural (Aug 10, 2008)

I used Buckfast from Texas a lot years ago, but stopped, when I got some bees that were a little too hot for my taste. Tried a couple of packages last year, which have overwintered and are doing just okay, not great, this year. Last year they were my strongest performers. They are not particularly mean, but not nearly as gentle as my MH. We've had a LOT of rain up here, so, other than my Russians, no one is bringing in very much nectar. I have Russian/mutt queens on order and plan to requeen the Buckfast hives this week or next before they supercede and get really mean.

A dearth of nectar can make any hive mean and a healthy, queenright nuc will usually be pretty gentle. But, there are ALWAYS exceptions.

Bill


----------



## NorthWest_bee_guy (Jun 14, 2009)

A fellow beek told me that buckfast are gentle till one of two things happen.
1. they make a new queen and she some how breeds with Italin drone. Makes for a bad combo.
2 if your nectar flow has stopped they get angry easy.
personaly I would stay away from them. legend has it that the monk from buckfast cross bred bees from all over the place and mixed genes with the AHB. how true that is is anyones guess? But that when a queen mates with a Italin drone it brings out the african gene. again urban legend but sound cool.


----------



## Apple Farmer (Apr 14, 2009)

Beeslave said:


> Apple Farmer,
> Do you think maybe the rain and lack of "nectar flow" we've had lately could have caused them to be a "little" meaner. I had cells shipped from FL this year and it was done on short notice so I told David Miksa([email protected] or 352-429-3447) to send what he could. When they arrived the cell holder said "Buckfast". I called him to see if that was what they were and he told me "Canadian(Ontario) Buckfast". So far they have all been very gentle but they are still in 5 frame deep nucs.


We haven't had more than a drop or two of rain here since July 1. We have a lot of white clover and white dutch clover that the bees have been working I'm sure that it would be better for nectar flow if we had some ran sure would help with size for my apples and pears!
Thanks for Daves number I'll keep him in my list of suppliers. May give him a call next year, if I decide to try buckfast again.

bnatural: sorry to hear you had the same experiance with Texas buckfast as I did. Really hoped for a excellent honey producer that was gentle and over wintered well.


----------



## CovertBeekInColleyville (Jun 12, 2009)

I thought one of my Italian queens was failing and replaced her with a Buckfast I ordered from a company here in Texas. I thought I would try the Buckfast since they are supposed to be more resiliant to mites and build up faster. (It seemed my Italian was lethargic). When I received the Buckfast queen, I thought I got ripped off since she was marked with white paint. I assume that means she was raised in 2006, but since I am a newbie, I didn't say anything. She seems to be laying well, but not building up as fast as I hoped. 
My other two Italian hives seem as mean as the Buckfast hive when I work them on a hot day. When it is hot, they all are sticking their heads out of the frames and watching my hands. I have to use a lot of smoke. I will find out more about their temperment when it starts cooling off in a couple of months.


----------



## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with your bees or that the company in Texas sells anything but great bees. BUT..............Texas is known for AHBs. Who is to say without doing DNA checks on every queen that some of them are not mating with AHB drones?

Just a thought.........not even a real stong opinion.


----------



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

The only thing Buckfast out of South Texas any more is the rubber stamp on the cages.


----------



## danno1800 (Mar 13, 2004)

The meanest bees I ever worked in 20 years were Buckfast out of Texas i bought 2 years ago. Some of the nicest, gentlest, most productive bees I've ever worked are Canadian Buckfast that I have been getting the last 3 summers from Ferguson Apiaries. Pay the extra bucks and get some bees that are nice to work with -- not hot bees no matter what their race. -Danno


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Open mated queens in known AHB territory can be an invitation for hot bees.


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Tom G. Laury said:


> The only thing Buckfast out of South Texas any more is the rubber stamp on the cages.


I though I was the only one that knew that secret. :no:

Buckfast out of Texas is a mix breed with Africanized. One year I bought a lot of buckfast queens from a big queen producer in Texas. 80% drone layer and the rest was so mean that I killed all of those queens. Sorry I never bought another Texas queen again. Cost me thousands that year.

30 years as a comm. beekeeper, and if anyone asked me I would have to say. "NO TO BUCKFAST QUEENS"


----------



## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

JBJ said:


> Open mated queens in known AHB territory can be an invitation for hot bees.


Officially that area isn't confirmed AHB if I read the map correctly. The only reason I ever checked the map was because the bees I bought from that area were meaner than a banty rooster and there were a whole lot more of them to fight. 
I kind of have to wonder just what it takes to keep an area like that officially AHB free...
But I do have a strong hunch.


----------



## Apple Farmer (Apr 14, 2009)

The Honey Householder said:


> I though I was the only one that knew that secret. :no:
> 
> Buckfast out of Texas is a mix breed with Africanized. One year I bought a lot of buckfast queens from a big queen producer in Texas. 80% drone layer and the rest was so mean that I killed all of those queens. Sorry I never bought another Texas queen again. Cost me thousands that year.
> 
> 30 years as a comm. beekeeper, and if anyone asked me I would have to say. "NO TO BUCKFAST QUEENS"


THH, Is that a no to all buckfast or no to Texas buckfast? I agree with never a *Texas*inch: Buckfast again! Have you tried Canadian Buckfast?
I just started keeping bees this year and plan on doing it for sometime too come. I want to give different breeds a try to see for myself their traits and how well they fit into our operation.


----------



## JBG (Jul 11, 2009)

cow pollinater said:


> Officially that area isn't confirmed AHB if I read the map correctly.
> I kind of have to wonder just what it takes to keep an area like that officially AHB free...
> But I do have a strong hunch.


That map is a bit lacking in reporting the true situation of AHB in the south thats for sure. Very political. A product we really need is a fast AHB test kit based on DNA. You can't visually id them and even the so called fast tests invlove rigorous morphological measurements then a statistical crunch, experts only. Not exactly like a do it yourself pregnancy test for example.


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

... or alternatively we could teach those mean bees to read a map.


----------



## NC-Bee-Dude (Jun 20, 2009)

I am glad I read this thread.

I was reading all these glowing comments on queen seller's websites, words like, "wonderful, marvelous, magnificent, gentle," blah, blah, blah.

Then I read on some other website, it was somewhere down south, this guy had a hive of Buckfast bees so hot that they would get stung when they got in sight of the hive.

I already decided then that I would be a little reluctant to go with that breed.

I think this thread is the icing on the cake.


----------



## BruinnieBear (Jun 30, 2009)

NC-Bee-Dude said:


> I already decided then that I would be a little reluctant to go with that breed.


As well as any open mated breed from the AHB Belt. It makes no sense to me to bring in undesirable traits, only to have to requeen with northern stock to set things straight.

BB


----------



## bnatural (Aug 10, 2008)

Well, I don't know if they have AHB genes in them or not. In the past I got some hot bees, which is why I stopped using them until last year. As I said, I bought two packages from R. Weaver, because I remember them as being very strong hives, and I wanted a couple for comparison. They overwintered fine but have just been okay this season, not great, as in years past. They have not been particularly aggressive, either last year or this year.

Today, I went out to requeen them with some Sooper Yooper queens from Zia Queenbee. I figured I should do it before they raised their own new queens, since I've read that the next generation can be pretty mean. I expected the process to be kind of rough with bees all over me. I should mention today was sunny, low humidity, temps in the high 70's. And I have a head cold. The first hive I opened was very calm. This hive had appeared to be dwindling, but recently I saw signs of more bees at the entrance. I found frame after frame of eggs, new brood and capped brood. Very nice pattern. Calm bees. Could not find the queen. Broke down three deeps and had them spread out all over, but could not find her. Since her pattern was so nice, and since the bees seemed calmer than last year (kind of runny, so maybe she mated with one of my Russian drones), I closed them back up and used some of their frames to start a nuc with their Sooper Yooper queen.

In the other hive, the stronger of the two, I found no eggs or fresh brood, only a few late cells left to hatch. The bees were calm, although they got more ticked by the time I finished breaking everything down. They COULD have a new, virgin queen, but I found no signs of queen cells, either. So, I gave them a new queen and closed them up.

Summing up my experience today, I have to say that I found my Texas-sourced Buckfast bees to be amazingly calm, especially considering one hive had requeened itself and the other appeared to be queenless. 

I have the remaining new queens (3) going in nucs as back-ups. But, overall, I am surprised and pleased with the temperament of these Buckfast hives. If the one that requeened itself stays calm, overwinters and survives in my no-treatment yard (which I did not expect, another reason I wanted to requeen them), then they may be keepers. Time will tell.

Bill


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

installed 20 texas queens about 10 years ago, were the meanest nastyiest bees I had ever seen, had some near a field, now none of these were second generation straight from texas. the farmer tried to mow the field, he asked me what the hell kind of bees they were they chased him and his equipment out of the field. took me 5 years to get the genes out of all my hives. If i had to have bees like this I would give them up. they were so bad I would bring extra socks to stuff inside my underwear for extra protection, along with double about anything else I could get on, the potential insurance liabiality's should have kept me up at night. But my arthritis was never better, there stings were harder than any honey bee I have ever had, runny and like runnians, wouldn't accept italian queens that's why it was so hard to get rid of them.

loved them to death mike

when I had to move them, my buddy wouldn't help, more stingers than I could count, I could go on and on and on but I'm in to good a mood to remember them.


----------



## Apple Farmer (Apr 14, 2009)

I'll be fixing my hot hive issue Wednesday the 12th. With a new queen from Canada. Thanks AR Beekeeper.

Omer


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

the buckfast was mean as the devil! 

Yes, and they were back in 1972!
I had to help out a friend with his 10 BF's because he could not work them. We re-queened them with Homer Parks's Italians.
He later tried 6 of the Pelican State queens and they would fly up and sting at any shadow like your hands over the hive. 
Recently he ordered queens from me, droped the order and got some queens, cheap ones, out of Texas. All 10 of the Texas queens that were put into divides died out by November. They would not build up in our area. 
He was a great believer in his FGMO fogger.
Ernie


----------



## bnatural (Aug 10, 2008)

I should mention that I got those two packages last year expecting them to be pretty hot, but knowing that in the past they built up quickly and were strong hives. I figured they would get my rejuvenated yard off to a quick start, and then I could requeen them later in the year. I did get a super of honey off of one hive, after letting them build up into three deeps, so they were pretty strong. They were calm enough that I left them until this year.

BUT, I think it is something of a roll of the dice as to what one might get these days. With this roll I got lucky. I don't plan to try my luck again. My goal is to start raising my own queens and only add from stock that has a good reputation for survivability and gentleness.

Bill


----------



## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

I have never dealt with Rweaver. Bweaver does not offer the “Buckfast” or the “All Stars” anymore. Their queens are now a combo of the All Star, Buckfast, BeeSMaRt. Rweaver shows to still offer the Buckfast. Which is kind of strange since their operation are basically right next to each other, but I guess their breeding yards could be at much further apart. All that being said I refer back to Tom’s statement being an accurate one.

I have 4 hives from bweaver. All 4 are boomers and very gentle.


----------



## NC-Bee-Dude (Jun 20, 2009)

Wow -- who would have thought that a Christian Monk would have made a devil of a bee! :scratch:


----------



## bnatural (Aug 10, 2008)

Brother Adams' weren't/aren't. He has been dead for several years, and I think it has more to do with drift from his original path, either by the effect of AHB on the breeding population in that part of Texas, or just by a change in breeding practices. Folks on this forum report that Buckfast bees from Canada are gentle as advertised. Buckfast is a licensed brand, not sure who does or doesn't have the right to use the term anymore. Regardless, they are a cross of several subspecies and do not breed true. Hence, the comments about second generation being meaner than first gen.

Bill


----------



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The original Buckfast bees as selected by Brother Adam were superbly gentle. It is true that in crosses with other races, they often became unmanageable. As earlier stated, the bees coming out of Texas have had problems in recent years. They are breeding for mite tolerance and other improved genetics. The Buckfast are no longer pure.

As an aside, about 1990, Weaver was able to import some pure Buckfast breeding stock from Brother Adam. The queens I got that year were among the best I've ever had. The colonies were boiling over with bees and swarming tendency was almost non-existent. They were just a little bit hotter than I like, but nothing to get excited over. Sadly, these bees were totally susceptible to Varroa and died out in 1994.


Does anyone have a source of Buckfast bees in Canada other than

http://www.fergusonapiaries.on.ca/


DarJones


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

USCBeeMan said:


> "...Texas is known for AHBs. Who is to say without doing DNA checks on every queen that some of them are not mating with AHB drones?..."


A thought I have have had from time to time, which has affected my ordering methodology.


----------



## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

I purchased (started this year with) 2 colonies mid March. These colonies were alleged to be Buckfast queens out of rweaver's stock. These colonies were actually 2 deep, and socked full of bees and had just been split. First colony had an rweaver "Buckfast" queen, and the second examined split colony had only queen cells (side of the split w/o the queen). The owner, my daughter and me worked these colonies without gloves or veils although they were lightly smoked. We worked these colonies about dusk and it eventually got to dark to see so I didn't check anymore. I wanted my colonies with queens so I purchased the 1 with a queen (which I got home without a queen, apparently killed in transport), and another different split (which I did not examine) that had another queen. This second split with a queen we did not have time to check because of lack of light. This was from deep Southeast Texas, close to the Woodville area bordering the Big Thicket, which is known to have Africanized colonies. I eventually requeened the second colony with a queen believing it was Africanized. We loaded them in the dark and the one's that didn't get blocked in were everywhere and aggressive. I suspect that many alleged "Buckfast" queens that have been determined to be vicious are actually supercedure queens.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If they're all like those that are in my hive I don't see why anyone would want them in their bee yard.

I don't. But I never had any that mean until 2001...


----------



## jeremyp (Jan 6, 2010)

*Re: Buckfast Bees - No excuse for ignorance*



NorthWest_bee_guy said:


> ... legend has it that the monk from buckfast cross bred bees from all over the place ... urban legend ...


I found this post a while ago and the memory of its ignorance has so upset me I've had to comeback and register with this forum to write a reply.

The Buckfast bee and Brother Adam are well documented. NorthWest_bee_guy and anyone can read up on Brother Adam. Brother Adam not only spent over 50 years working and learning about bees, but he also attempted to pass his knowledge on in a couple of books (in more than one language). His writting is very direct and authorative and if NorthWest_bee_guy and anyone else took the time to read one of his books it would be a good use of time.
At minimum you can verify the history of the buckfast bee at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_bee and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Kehrle

But I recommend that for the price of a couple of evenings you read:
- *Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey* (Paperback)
(Amazon are quoting silly prices for this book take a look at:
International Bee Research Association (based in the UK) http://www.ibrastore.org.uk/ 
and Northern Bee books http://www.groovycart.co.uk/cart.php?c=533 )

As for


NorthWest_bee_guy said:


> ... buckfast are gentle till ... make a new queen and she ... breeds with Italin drone. Makes for a bad combo ... ... when a queen mates with a Italin drone it brings out the african gene ..."


When you have read about Brother Adam's rigorous methods concerning queen breeding and particulary the effects of crossing strains documented at the back of Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey, get a copy of:
*Brother Adam in search of the best strains of bees*
This book is not such an easy read, but it documents his search for bees and the results of different crosses and his analysis of different strains. And will give you an understanding of why the different crosses result in very different results.

There is no urban legend here just 50+ years of rigous German style scientific study by a man who had the resources and energy to be one of the contributors to our knowledge of bees.


----------



## SamG347 (Oct 17, 2009)

I see many have already said what I'm going to but....If you got bees marked "Buckfast" in this country the chances are they AREN'T! Especially the Buckfast stock out of Texas. Like others have said they usually turn aggressive their second year/or when they make a new queen. Best but for good Buckfast stock is getting a queen out of Canada.
:thumbsup:


----------



## coyote40 (Jul 24, 2010)

Buckfast bees? I ordered 120 carnolian queen cells but through some mix up, I received Buckfast. Like a fool, I put the cells in the hives late last summer instead of returning them. Huge mistake... They are the meanest most aggressive I've ever seen. I hate them with a passion. And don't think for a minute that their aggression is only directed towards humans. They kill other hives and rob their honey regularly. If I had the money, I'd burn every hive of them I have.


----------



## criscojohn (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm just new to beekeeping, so I'm not an expert by any stretch. We inherited 1 hive of Italian mutts, and researched other types of bees to expand our beeyard. While doing all the reading on the different types of bees, one thing that stuck out about the Buckfast was you need to have a 'certified' (so to speak) Buckfast queen to get the buckfast qualities. If they supercede or requeen themselves, the resulting hive will be mean and hot. That was too much for our experience level, so we've decided on more Italians at this point. Just my 2 cents worth.
Chris


----------



## thomas (Apr 23, 2006)

Howdy glad to see some things about the buckfast bee i wanted to try some this spring and i contacted R.Weaver and was told they could not get any more seman from the people they use to get it from in England so thier bees are mostly Italains not buckfast. I also contacted a gentleman from douglas farms and he gets his bees from canada but he was to get back with me and i never heard anything from him till this day. I would love to find someone here that get queens from canada i would get a couple to try out.


THOMAS


----------



## markmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

Wish I had seen this thread before I ordered Buckfasts from RWeaver .... oh, well: I guess I have some lessons to learn this Spring.


----------



## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Hinting on my original statement about Buckfast/AHB bees from Texas. *How in the world can 1 county in the whole state of Texas be marked as not AHB infested?* :doh:

If they can build fences high enough and far enough to keep out these bees then there shouldn't be any problems with keeping out illegals!!! 

Guess there are some stupid or very well paid people with some federal or state agency that decides that the map color for that county is white! :waiting:


----------



## randyb49 (Feb 17, 2014)

NC-Bee-Dude said:


> I am glad I read this thread.
> 
> I was reading all these glowing comments on queen seller's websites, words like, "wonderful, marvelous, magnificent, gentle," blah, blah, blah.
> 
> ...


I would not rule out Buckfast. In my case they are the only bees I have been able to keep alive for more than a season. Buckfast from Texas were delivered in May and filled hive by July. Robbed them one time and left plenty for them to overwinter. This has been our coldest winter in years and every day it is above 45 degrees they are out and about.


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

This thread is from 2009! Things change in 5 years.

JMO

Rusty


----------



## tsmullins (Feb 17, 2011)

Apple Farmer said:


> I'll be requeening with a NWC.


Didn't realize this was a five year old post.


----------

