# Insulation under hive cover



## PyroBee (Dec 14, 2013)

Did some quick research on bubble foil under hive cover. Some positive and negative reviews on using it. It is fairly cheap compared to rigid foam board. 2'x25' at Lowes for $23. Most of what I read that was negative was that it made condensation and dripped down on to the cluster. I do have inner covers with a hole in the center and a 1/2"x3/4" open for an upper entrance. Anyone use this or should I use foam or nothing at all? Thanks


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

It can add some insulation value but also is flexible enough to block off the opening in the inner cover and you lose the air flow for ventilation.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I have used the blue foam and the Styrofoam with plastic/tinfoil layer on one side. both work well at insulating, helps keep moisture from getting in the hive from under the lid.

A strong hive that works it way to the foam will chew it away over time. The thin tinfoil on the Styrofoam seems to stop this.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

I use a 3/4" foam board with the foil side down. Put it on top of the inner cover so there's still air flow out the center hole and through the notch at the front of the inner cover.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

some insulation between the metal of the cover and the wood of the cover does help reduce heat transfer from the sun.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

You guys are in a totally different winter wonderland than mine. For me these insulations all have the problem of also being a moisture barrier. I want something that has a good insulation factor but also allows moisture from within to travel through it and escape. The Homesote board product is often mentioned; here in canada it used to be called TenTest. It will pick up and wick off quite a bit of moisture all around its perimeter.

I use a layer of woodshavings that really serves well here but we get 40 belowF. temperatures and many weeks of 20 below.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I also use the 3/4" foam board with foil backing. Three years now and no chew through. Just flip the inner cover over so the notch is down and place the insulation then cover back on.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I have been using Homasote over the notch-down inner covers and it works well. I cut the pieces slightly undersized to provide a little more air space around the perimeter.

:thumbsup:


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

The 2" rigid foam board is $34- $38 for a 4' X 8' sheet here in SE Ohio. I bought the 1" last year and just put two thicknesses on each hive.

I am experimenting with quilt boxes on 4 of my hives this year so I will use only one 1" thickness on these. Then I will wrap with black tar paper and hope I have
done all that needs to be done. Besides adding a winter patty and sugar brick at a later time in the shims I put on under the quilt boxes.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

BeeMoose said:


> The 2" rigid foam board is $34- $38 for a 4' X 8' sheet here in SE Ohio. I bought the 1" last year and just put two thicknesses on each hive.
> 
> I am experimenting with quilt boxes on 4 of my hives this year so I will use only one 1" thickness on these. Then I will wrap with black tar paper and hope I have
> done all that needs to be done. Besides adding a winter patty and sugar brick at a later time in the shims I put on under the quilt boxes.


Is the 1" less than half the cost...?

I think I just paid $28 for a 2" 4x8 sheet of the pink stuff. It's gone up a bit recently. I used to make duck decoys out of it and never remember it being much more than $22 or so. Of course you can get a lot of duck decoys out of one sheet. I throw the 2" up under the telescoping cover and weight the cover down. I will probably buy some cheap ratchets and ratchet stacks together this winter instead of weighting. Just in case. I haven't had too much trouble with my bees chewing the foam. Yet.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

jwcarlson said:


> Is the 1" less than half the cost...?
> 
> I think I just paid $28 for a 2" 4x8 sheet of the pink stuff. It's gone up a bit recently. I used to make duck decoys out of it and never remember it being much more than $22 or so. Of course you can get a lot of duck decoys out of one sheet. I throw the 2" up under the telescoping cover and weight the cover down. I will probably buy some cheap ratchets and ratchet stacks together this winter instead of weighting. Just in case. I haven't had too much trouble with my bees chewing the foam. Yet.


$20.00 here a sheet for the 1" pink stuff. Send a couple of pics of those decoys when you get a chance... sounds cool.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Mr.Beeman said:


> $20.00 here a sheet for the 1" pink stuff. Send a couple of pics of those decoys when you get a chance... sounds cool.


I'll PM you some additional ones, but here is one (the swan). The duck decoys are plastic in this picture.




The construction is foam wrapped in tight weave burlap and tile mastic. Then a smoothed layer of tile mastic over it once the first layer dries. On the bill and any areas that will rub in a bag (like the tails and wing tips a product called ApoxySculpt was used to give it a rock hard wear point). Then sealed with Kilz 2. Then painted with whatever. This particular swan was hollowed out quite a bit underneath so it kind of 'sucked' onto the water. No keel. My duck foamers had a variety of keels but most often I just left them flat so the wind would move them better. Screw in (with glue) a nice eye hook to tie weight to.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2004)

The bubble wrap will prevent the warm moist air from the cluster reaching the cold inside of the outer cover. Were it to do so, the moisture would condense and cause 'rain' to fall on the cluster...killing the bees. So using the bubble wrap is good in that context. But that is only 50% of the challenge. The other 50% of getting rid of the warm moist air! The homasote boards absorb the moisture. They do a good job at it and still used extensively around here. A medium super full of straw does that same thing and is also used around here. But both suffer the disadvantage of being another piece of equipment to put on the hives and then take off and find a storage place.
Many years ago a Canadian taught me a better method:
1. Throw away your inner covers
2. Buy or make a 1.5" wide shim/spacer that will fit on top of your highest box. Cut a 1" hole in one end, and cover it with hardware cloth so mice can't use it as an entrance to the hive. See what the spacer should look like here http://www.betterbee.com/wooden-hive-equipment/shim.asp
3. Make or buy a "pillow", or inner cover pad made of 1" unfaced insulation stuck inside a plastic bag. You can buy them here:http://nodglobal.com/shop/bee-cozy-winter-hive-wraps-inner-cover-pads/. If you make your own, be certain that it covers the width of the hive, but stops 2" short of the length, so it doesn't block the hole in the spacer/shim. 

This works so that the warm moist air from the cluster rises but can't reach the cold side of the outer cover and instead exits the hive through the hole in the shim/spacer. The bees will not bother (eat) the pillow, nor will they propolize it to the tops of the frame. Leave it on all summer, and it stops the hive from getting overheated. When adding supers, remove the spacer/shim and the pillow, and put them back on the top of the highest super.

I keep them on 200+ hives all year round.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I combine the feed lift ring with an upper entrance and ventilation. The holes do not go straight through but *in* the front surface then turn down part way through to enter the hive vertically. Maybe the pictures will show how they are drilled partially through front and bottom and intersect. 
Gives some draft prevention and probably too tight a turn for mice. I screen the top or use a separate screen to hold up the shavings quilt and keep it up off any top feed I might want to use.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I have used the tech wrap (silver bubble wrap), I put it over a sugar block, inside a feed rim as Lloyd and Crofter mentioned. I wanted to say that I cut a opening in the ends to let the moisture go to the vents and I cut mine long so that it is in an arch. I figure when the water does condense it goes down the back or front. A terrible cold day here is 20 degrees and a day without rain and clouds is rare (Portland weather: think stereo typical Seattle).


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