# How long can they survive without Medication?



## thesurveyor (Aug 20, 2002)

I have several hives that are derived from the Russian line that was produced from the bee lab in LA. They are going on three years without any losses . They have not been medicated for mites, etc. They are very strong and they are building up nicely. I am curious if anyone else has had any success with hives not treated?

I realize this is not the norm, but they seem to be dealing with the mite problem better than the italians that I used to keep.

Look forward to your experiences.


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

I've had bees for five years now and have never medicated them unless you count FGMO. In the beginning I lost a couple of weak hives to wax moths, but I've never seen any sign of tracheal mite, nosema, etc. in my girls (knock wood!). I started with buckfast and added Italians. They've requeened themselves for the last three years.


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## bbbbeeman (Jan 13, 2007)

Surveyor; I have not medicated my for 7 years, i run about 50 hives and lose 3or4 each winter.i use a veg oil tray under a closed screen bottom board, the bees chase the h-beetles wax moth larve ants and mites that i dislodge when i fog with fgmo every 6 weeks or so in the warm weather. it work for me and people buy my honey as organic. good luck. ROCK


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## thesurveyor (Aug 20, 2002)

Awesome, I feel that when you can keep them alive without introducing the chemicals, it can only be a benefit. I spoke with a fellow that is a care taker at a local church here, they have a hive that is built into the church eve, he states they have been there for at least 7 yrs maybe more like 10yrs. They cannot be reached, so we know they have not been medicated.

Wish we could figure out what they are doing and replicate it on a larger scale.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Dee Lusby stopped treating in 1983 and has not treated since. I started regressing to small cell in 2001 and have not treated some of them since 2002 and have not treated any of them since 2003.


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## thesurveyor (Aug 20, 2002)

MB is the reason small cell, or do you think the bees are getting a handle on the mites, now that they have been dealing with them for around 20 yrs? I have not tried the small cell yet, but I am making plans to start converting.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>MB is the reason small cell, or do you think the bees are getting a handle on the mites, now that they have been dealing with them for around 20 yrs?

They never have to get a handle on them in hives where they are treated all the time for them.

Small cell, in my observation, is sufficient in itself to manage the Varroa problem. But I'm sure other things contribute. It's not all one thing. Nothing ever is. Dee says it's cell size, food, and genetics. I'm sure they all play a part. The question would be how large a part.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I've been keeping bees for a good while now, I haven't used any "treatments", *not* FGMO, *not* vegetable oil, *not* sticky boards, *not* oxalic acid, *not* acetic acid, *not* formic acid, *not* check-mite, *not* fumagillin, *not* honey bee healthy, *not* anything except most hives have a majority of small-cell combs in their brood nests, but this has only happened within the past 6-8 years. I have only lost hives when one becomes queenless and I don't notice soon enough. I usually micro-manage to keep most colonies fairly balanced in strength, but sometimes I get distracted and don't give my bees the attention I like to give them. I have 12 hives and 8 nucs and they have all made it through the winter without any assistance from me. I hadn't opened the hives since October 2006.


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## bbbbeeman (Jan 13, 2007)

*bbbbeeman*

clemens; yes i remember back in the 60`s all i did was cut out queen cells and swap brood to keep the hives equal. but that day is gone. i try to let the bees do their own thing, they managed with out us for a long time. but that was before we had the know how of treating efb,afb, chalkbrood,sacbrood and varmits like varroa&tracheal mites,and the shb. i do not use pesticidesin my hives but i do use a closed screen bb with a veg`oil pan whitch kills the varmits the bees run through the screen.i change the oil about 5 or 6 times a year<about 3 hours for 50 hives>each time.about one hour to fog them ever 5or6 week with fgmo to dislodge mites run shb. if you dont have to help your bees that is great but my bees give me over a ton of honey each year for my helping them. good luck ROCK


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

I just checked mine today - they have come through their second winter on natural cell with no treatment except the occasional dusting with icing sugar. I'm happy so far...


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