# Vinegar vs. Water for Candy



## murphys110 (Jun 10, 2015)

Going to make sugar candy for wintering, for the first time. Looks like most recipes call for 2 cups liquid to 10# sugar. Some use water, others use cider vinegar (assume apple?).

I've read that the apple cider vinegar helps with longevity in 1:1 syrup, but is that an issue with the candy? Guess if it doesn't hurt there's no real concern, just curious for input.

Thanks!


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Used 1 oz of apple cider vinegar per pound of sugar for bricks last with good results, during the same again this year. I also added a splash of HBH, mix in a 5 gal bucket with an electric drill and a large paint mixer. I lightly pack in cheap metal bread pans and to speed the dehydration I put them in the oven, when the oven temp reaches 220 degrees shut it off and let everything cool with the door closed. Stinks up the house slightly with a vinegar smell.


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

Water or vinegar is your choice, some folks use vinegar "because it lowers the pH" to be more like honey or because it "inverts some of the sucrose" neither of which makes any difference to the bees. Their digestive enzymes do both. Usual volume of liquid is 1oz. per pound of sugar, much more than that makes the cakes take longer to dry. The mixture will be like snow that packs but not tight, you can always add a splash more liquid but you can't take it out. 10 pounds sugar would be 1 1/4 cups liquid.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

I have never seen a candy board or fondant recipe that uses vinegar _instead_ of water, only as an _additive_. Doesn't necessarily mean such a recipe doesn't exist, just haven't seen one. the vinegar, or other acidifier such as ascorbic acid or lemon juice, helps the sugar inversion process. It also helps preserve the mixture. It is generally used at 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per pound rate.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

It exist and I must say I was skeptical when I tried it last year when I switched from the cook recipe. Had good results and didn't notice any difference in the bees consuming the bricks. Aren't ya glad you tuned in to the forum today? LOL


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## murphys110 (Jun 10, 2015)

Eikel said:


> Aren't ya glad you tuned in to the forum today? LOL


Well I'm glad you did!  
Thanks!


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I have sugar bricks air drying now. I used Lauri's recipe but did not have any citric acid. 8# sugar, 8 oz ACV, and 1/8 tsp. Vitamins and Electrolytes Plus. Rolled out into a 1" deep sheet pan. Use the oven to dry it if you can. I thought my first attempt was dry until I went to flip it out of the pan, made a huge mess and had to start all over. :doh:


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I just put them in the shim. This year I put a little chicken wire in the shims but did not really do that cause it needed it but more because last year when I checked the hives in feb, there was still enough sugar block to make inspecting a tipping the box type thing rather then mess with moving the sugar and pulling frames. I don't know if it will work but I hope that I can just lift them off with the chicken wire.

I don't really measure but it is about a half of cups of water per 4 lbs of sugar. I did put a couple of teaspoons of white vinigar in it but may not always put anything in. I just do it a couple weeks ahead and then put them on the hive.















I just scoop it in and then take a strait edge along the boards so I know my telescoping lid will sit level and then leave them till I need them.

I mix water in till it feels like barily wet sand and it sets up well enough to carry with out breaking out. I stacked them in the tractor bucket, carried them to the hives and put them on.
Cheers
gww


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

If you follow Laurie's recipe there is no need to cook it. I have seen so many threads on here with people having trouble getting the bricks to harden and it is all from people who try to warm it or cook it. It is totally unnecessary and mine harden within one day. And I am talking hard as a brick. The recipe I have for her bricks calls for vinegar not water. It does not stink up the house if you don't cook it. J


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## JustKrispy (Jan 8, 2016)

I put mine in the oven for a couple of hours on the warm setting. 170 degrees.


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

I use Lauri's mix, a bit modified. I usually mix 10 lbs at a time, using my hands, when done it is like wet snow. I then put it into cookie sheets and just compact it. This year I used a de-humidifier to dry the blocks, at 130f. The bees love it. I had to add a lot of blocks last January, we had a warm winter, they were running out of capped honey. Added blocks around every 2-3 weeks until nectar started to flow. 

10 pounds sugar
1 Tablespoon citric acid
1/4 teaspoon elecytrolytes
3 capsules probiotics (don't usually add these)
1 and 1/4 cups Apple Cider Vinegar


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## HiveBeetle (Mar 26, 2017)

Can someone post a link to Lauri's recipe, please?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?290641-My-recipe-method-for-sugar-blocks


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## HiveBeetle (Mar 26, 2017)

Thank you


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

I don't have the years of experience that many posters have. I used Organic Cider Vinegar (our own this year), Sugar, and Sea Salt last year. Every hive came through the winter just fine so that's what I'm using again this year. I make them in red silicone cake and bread pans. Bake them for ~1hr @ 225 then put them on the porch to cool. In the morning I peel the pan away and let them sit on a cookie rack until I get to using them.

Last year I used silicone cupcake pans to make "pucks". It's a little more work but I could just dissolve the remnants in water once spring came to make syrup.


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## Ruthz (Sep 13, 2011)

Variety of winter feeding techniques I've used over the years:

Bakery fondant (unflavored, please) 
-Easiest, just slip on top of frames or queen excluder for support. Dried out in about a month MD, which is relatively humid when things aren't frozen. Didn't mold. But the bees lost interest in dried sugar brick around the edges. Costs more money and can be hard to find.

Home-made fondant (sugar, water, hardball stage)
-A pain to make, and sticky to handle. Parchment paper minimized sticking, but a sugary mess none-the-less. Put on top of frames, and then impossible to remove. Much was scraped off with the hive tool in March with mold on top.

Fancy home-made fondant (sugar, corn syrup, water, vinegar, pinch cream of tartar, HBH dash)
-An even bigger pain to make. I think the corn syrup helped it from drying out as easily. Bees seemed to like it. Didn't notice an difference in bee build-up.

Straight sugar poured on top of inner cover. 
-Super easy, didn't require opening hive or breaking cluster. Bees barely ate any. Not recommended.

Sugar or Wet Sugar packed into empty pulled frames.
-Minor pain to do, must have empty drawn frames available. Some bees just hauled it out as hive junk, but one hive took used it. Must remember that you fed them sugar, so you don't freak out on inspection in the spring mistaking sugar gains for mite frass.

This year's lazy feeding: Mixed 30 lbs sugar, 1/2 cup vinegar, and enough water to make a stiff sludge. No cooking, just scooped on top of inner covers, used a shim to allow enough space for cover to fit without being sugared. 

We will see how this year's feeding works out. If it works, I think I will opt for this method again because it is so easy. But the hive beetle possibilities are always a worry. 

Hope this is helpful to someone.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

It has been mentioned here a few times that vinegar may be hard on bees, it adds no nutritional value, does not invert sugar unless heated to high temps that also make HMF. It can cause robbing. 

Vitamins and minerals have proven benefits; increased winter survival, longevity and brood. Many studies on the subject. 


>This year I used a de-humidifier to dry the blocks, at 130f. 
>1 Tablespoon citric acid
>1/4 teaspoon elecytrolytes
>3 capsules probiotics (don't usually add these)
>1 and 1/4 cups Apple Cider Vinegar

Heat breaks down the vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and destroys probiotics.

Air dry.


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