# Smoker fuel



## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

What do ya'll use for smoker fuel.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

SMOKER FUEL - Pine needles, sumac pods, and corrugated cardboard are free, but cedar wood shavings (animal bedding) burns for a long time and burns dependably. [Dr. James Tew, BC, 9/04, p28]. The shavings are easy to start and keep going, give off bountiful clouds of pleasant-smelling smoke, and helps quiet excited bees [BC, 9/04, p41].


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## Propolis30 (Aug 25, 2005)

Rolled up cardboard lit at the bottom. It will burn for about an hour.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

I prefer pine needles, dry grass, and grass clippings and sumac seed heads (when I can get `em, I've got a shopping bag full that I've collected this winter). Also wood chips. Otherwise, whatever I can find: Dry leaves. Dry hay. Pine cones. Dead twigs. Occasionally burlap or bailing twine (really stinks). Sawdust. Bark from my wood pile. Charcoal from my stove or fire pit. Rotted wood from old stumps smolders nicely. Moose droppings are fun for a change, I often find a pile when out walking. Never tried cow dung, but I plan to.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

pine needles, I go and collect some in the woods or just buy a bail for 2-3 bucks and put in a garbage can to keep dry.....


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>Never tried cow dung, but I plan to.

Moose nuggets work good, but you should use only the larger ones. The smaller ones sometimes will roll out the end of your smoker and drop onto your frames. You don't want that.


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks for the replies will give them
a try have been useing smoker fuel wood
pellets from man lake but real hard to start
and have to keep relighting them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Fire is all about fuel, heat and air. Air is usually the problem. Try not to pack the fuel in too tightly. Try a bigger smoker. Try an insert:

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/SmokerInsert3.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/SmokerInsert2.JPG


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## Jim Williamson (Feb 16, 2006)

I plan to try Michael's carburetor (smoker insert) this year. I saw it on his website the other day. Look's like a winner to me. I have enough pine straw down here to outfit all of us for 100 years.


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## bleakley (Jun 13, 2004)

Road apples work well . . . moose are in short supply 'round here, but horses are plentiful.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Whatever happens to be around the hives (usually some combination of grass, straw and twigs). Now if only I could outfit it with a tiny grill for lunch...


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I like untreated binder twine. good cool smoke and the smells tolerable. I've tried mostof them.
Clint


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

I just put a hand full of the pellets in
a big smoker i got dont no the size of it
but its the biggest i seen. The killer bee
smoker is bigger than it. And try to light them
with a propane torch and they keep going out.
Will try the cedar shavings when it stops raining
here. Thank's for the advise I'm glad I found
this sight. Have learned alot since I started
looking here.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Stinger, torches work well to get them going, but you can't light it from the top and have it work. kindle a small fire in the bottom of the smoker first, then start adding fuel, pumping the bellows as you go. Tamp it down, but not too tightly. A little practice will show you how much fuel to add, and how quickly. You'll end up with a fire on the bottom of the smoker and it will burn up towards the top.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

Pine needles. Lit from the top. Smokes as long as I work the bellows every five min or so. If I leave it for 20 mins, it goes out. Just use dry needles.

Hawk


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

There you go Stinger, two totally opposite opinions on how to burn a smoker. With all due respect to Hawk, I think the "light it from the top" advocates are in the minority. The air inlet is at the bottom. Draft goes up. Smoke goes out the top. Trying to get the fire to burn down while the air is going up is problematic. My smoker stays lit pretty much as long as there's fuel left in it. I've left it sitting well over an hour and still had a fire going. Sometimes it goes out prematurely, usually shortly after I light it- the first 4-5 minutes you need to keep it going. Once it's going well, it's not a problem. I don't like my smoker going out, it always seems to do it just when you want it most..


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The best thing you'll ever buy to light the smoker is an instant on torch. I love mine. I have had to teak it a couple of times to get it working again, but it will light a smoker very quickly.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>instant on torch.

Yes, they're convenient, but mine keep dying on me. Perhaps because I'm buying low-end junk. In any case, after tossing 3 on the junk heap (they won't burn any more, let alone light themselves) I'm just going to stick with matches or a spark lighter.

Part of the problem is the cheaper torches won't tolerate being burned at anything less than full heat for some reason- 2 minutes burning on a low flame and they're toast. My old torch is fully adjustable, I've had it for years.


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## IBEEME (Apr 21, 2005)

My mentor (commercial beek) uses hay. Tight ball on the bottom that gets lit, then lose ball on top. I find that the hay may be usefull even with other fuels (when used on top) as it will become a filter helping stop any sparks from coming out the end. Just my 2 cents worth.

Randy Potvin


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I prefer straw or hay. I will occasionally throw some dry corn cobs in with it.


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

I mostly use cardboard tightly rolled up or ripped up paper egg cartons, light the bottom of the rolled up cardboard and it lasts quite a while without going out. The egg cartons do not stay smoking as well as the rolled up cardboard. Have wanted to place an insert into the smoker but just never got a round2it yet!


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

One of the drags of beekeeping is keeping the smoker lit! That's why I don't fool around anymore: I buy that smoker fuel that comes in plugs and you tear off as much as you need. I put it in the bottom of the smoker, light it with my propane torch and I'm good to go. For about ten cents I can work all eight of my hives and never run out of smoke or have the smoker go out on me.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

Cow dung (make sure it's nice & dry  ). I light it with a sheet or two from an old telephone book. A little difficult to light compared to other fuels, but once it's going will burn all day without going out (and it's free). Put green grass on top to get a nice cool smoke.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

If your smoker won't stay lit, just set it down
and walk away. It will soon be puffing
smoke out the spout all by itself.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Cow dung

I'll try it. I meant to last year. I can just imagine the talk at the local store when they spot me out in a pasture picking up patties..

>I light it with a sheet or two from an old telephone book.

That's reserved for use in the out house..

>Put green grass on top to get a nice cool smoke.

Excellent idea.

George-


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

I use strictly pine needles -- they work well and my yard is carpeted with them. I get a good handful and light it and put the flame in the can first so the fire is in the bottom and travels up. Then I let it burn with the lid off while I put on my veil. When it's flaming well, I fill it up and close the lid.

It's sort of like filling a pipe -- too loose and it won't last long, too tight and it will go out. Once you get the knack, it will stay lit until the fuel runs out.


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

I use pine needles with a bit of old comb in there aswell, the thick white smoke with a hint of beeswax seems to keep the AHB a bit calmer


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## kbee (Mar 6, 2005)

I started using dried mint. I'm not sure the bees react any different then when I use other materials but I think I read the mint smoke makes them groom more. Any way it smells nice and I have to keep pulling it out of the garden all summer anyway.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

1) Pine Straw
2) bailing twine
3) anything within reach except poison ivy


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>3) anything within reach except poison ivy

You speaking from experience? I've heard you don't want to breath the smoke. A friend of mine got a nasty case of it from just bush hogging a meadow with a lot of poison ivy in it.

Fortunately it doesn't bother me..


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

As a wee lad of 10 a friend and I built a fort out of posion ivy vines and proceeded to build a fire to consume what was left. It's amazing how much trouble you can get in with a bolo, a few matches and 3 or 4 hours to burn (no pun intended) The next morning when I woke up my beloved 4 yr old brother looked at me from the top bunk and went screaming out of the room to my parents yelling "theres a monster in my room". I had poison ivy in places I didn't even know I had places to have poison ivy in. After aweek on the couch on a sheet covered with good old calamine lotion i went from looking like a leper to a burn victim. I had scars in school for weeks after. Ever since I go into anaphalaxis if I even see poison ivy.

Wow this is almost a Hawk level story!


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Poison Ivy was one of my favorite playthings when I was growing up. I would rub it on my arms, chase the other kids with it, ETC. I thought I was totally immune in all ways. Then about 1970 I piled a bunch of it on a brush pile and burned it. Poison Ivy in your nose, mouth, throat an lungs in nearly fatal. You will wish you could die anyway. I have never burned it again and have never been effected by it again.

As for my smoker, I keep untreated bailing twine in my truck at all times. It works great.


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

I tried some cedar shavins today and i thought
a old train was in the yard had all kinds of
smoke everywhere. And smelled real good to but 
wife still said you stink. I still think it
smelled good.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Has anybody ever tried dryer lint?


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>dryer lint?

As a matter of fact, I have. Great for starting the fire, but I've only ever used it for tinder.


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## Walt McBride (Apr 4, 2004)

A friend of mine keeps bees at a road side corn and strawberry stand. They give him all of the unsellable ears that he wants for his ducks that he razes to sell to a Chinese restaurant. The ducks eat the corn and we use the dried cobs for smoker fuel. It smells like popcorn.
Walt


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

>>>If your smoker won't stay lit, just set it down and walk away. It will soon be puffing
smoke out the spout all by itself.<<<

!!!WRONG!!!









If your smoker won't stay lit, slow down!
Seperate smoker operation from the hive tasks at hand.
First, light the smoker and operate it until you are sure that it is under way. In the meanwhile, enjoy your surroundings, calm your soul, forget the rat race.
HEY! Look at that! I took time out to fire the smoker and relax and now it's time to go to work!
.....
When your smoker won't stay lit, you should not be working with the bees, you're too tense.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

>>>If your smoker won't stay lit, just set it down and walk away. It will soon be puffing
smoke out the spout all by itself.<<<

My smoker always does better after I am through working the Bees


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

they use to process beeswax by placing beeswax between layers of burlap, placing this in a vat of hot water and then pressing these burlap layers until the wax oozed out at the top. after all this was accomplished the slum gum and burlap bags that remained made a very nice, easy to light fuel that burned fairly evenly.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

I have heard some variants of hemp calm the bees and you too, but make you..snacky


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

Where would a guy find sum of that
hemp you speek of. I wood like to try
sum of that hemp. In my smoker, what kind of
snacks do you keep handy when you smoke the
bees with this hemp you speek of.     

[ February 25, 2006, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Big Stinger ]


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Gave it up in the 70s.
Thank heavens I converted!
(To walnut leaves, that is!)


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>make you..snacky

Snacky, or Whacky? Whacky-Tabacky ain't it? Who has not thought at least once about the effects of smoking their bees with it? I certainly have.

Harry, what's your take on walnut leaves?


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Studies have shown that music such as John Prine's 'Illegal Smile' adds to the calming effect of hemp smoke on bees. In fact, one early 1970's researcher used the phrase "really laid back" to scientifically describe the bees behavior. Ruth Rosin would be pleased to know that bees no longer dance when hemp smoke and tunes such as "Panama Red" are introduced into the hive. Instead, they appear to lie on their backs and stare into the sky.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Gee, Dick; you do seem rather well informed on this!

George, I have about 40 English walnut trees on my property. That is about as scientific as my use of their leaves gets, sorry to say.
But try this sometime in the dead of the winter:
Slip a sticky board in a hive for 1 hour.
Read the results.
Now slip it back in and smoke the hive with walnut leaves and remove the board after one hour.
Seems that it dislodges the mites at least.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Naw, on second thought, I wouldn't recommend that!


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## Kishwaukee Goldminer (Dec 6, 2005)

Thanks for all the good ideas, everyone! 

A commercial beekeeper demonstrated using wood pellets (like for pellet stoves) in a smoker, and it was really impressive -- until I tried to buy some. It was off-season and I couldn't find a supply. Never got to try it; for those interested, a fireplace store would be the place to look SOON.

Then I bought a bag of mulch and lit the chips with a propane torch. DENSE smoke, and LOTS of it -- until the chips went out. Keeping them lit was a chore. (Tia, you're absolutely right!) Then I learned that mulch may be chemically treated to retard mold, INSECTS, etc., and I stopped using that to avoid poisoning my bees.

Paper and burlap are also treated, or can be. So any chemicals would come out in the smoke. I'm scared of that.

Dadant sells plugs of gray smoker fuel which works well IF you can get it lit AND keep it lit. Maybe that tip (above) about breaking it up to increase surface area is the secret to good results with it. It's economical enough.

Mann Lake sent me what looks like cotton batting rather than the pellets I thought I ordered. But it lights instantly, makes lots of smoke and stays lit until it's gone (which doesn't take very long, sadly). But this is the best option of all I've seen, and I plan to buy more. 

A Master Beekeeper said: get the smoker HOT first, before you put smoker fuel in it; don't try to work with a cold smoker. He's right.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Well thanks Harry, I was just wondering. Some time in the past I came across this SARE funded project on the use of walnut leaf smoke for varroa control:

http://www.sare.org/reporting/report_viewer.asp?pn=FNE03-485&ry=2004&rf=1

So I was wondering. I don't think the above study had any earth-shaking results. I'll likely try your suggested experiment. I know where there are a few walnuts growing locally. Do you collect the leaves in the fall, or dry them during the year, or what?


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

I'd bee careful using any walnut product in a new way. I know they produce an herbicide called juglone that supposedly kills other plants. I don't know it's affect on insects or honey.

Hawk


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Goldminer,
They also put creosote in the mulch sometimes to make it look dark and "attractive".

I have a hard time parting with things. Actually, I hate to see things end up in a landfill. Once I lernt that cotton clothing can be recycled, I started storing a bunch. Well, it CAN be recycled if you have a recycling facility.

Any-who, I've started using my old 100% cottom rags in my smoker. Jeans work very well. Once lit, topped off with some with-in-reach grass or hay, and I've got a great smoker. When I'm ready to extinguish, dump it out and it burns like a fuse and no ash left much.

Waya


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

I use oak wood shaving from my planer, and I light it from the top with wooden matches. I have larger smoker, and I can get about 40 minutes. But that is ok, because I have an endless supply! When I started out, I used a mixture of pine needles and corn cobs. The combination works very well, because the corn cobs produce heat, and the needles produce the smoke.I have tryed cardboard, straw, baler twine, burlap, and commercial smoker fuel. But I'll stick with wood shavings, as my favorite.


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## Hayseed (Apr 25, 2004)

I have an excess of baling twine and a shed full of soft 2nd cutting grass hay. I take a big fist full of hay and wrap it tight with a couple of baler twines and tie it off. I can make a pail full of softball sized wads in advance and ready to add when needed. They hay makes excellent smoke but only lasts about an hour. That's usually long enough for routine checks. 

Solid balls of twine last for hours.

I have learned to start a smaller fire in the bottom first and add a "ball" of fuel once it gets hot.

A local beekeeper showed me how he throws a small amount of combustibles in the smoker, hits it with about 1 second shot of engine starter fluid (ether) and lights it. If you stand close enough, you won't have to shave that day  Once it's hot, pack your smoker and go.

Maybe I should add a disclaimer - "don't try this at home unless your crazy" - I guess I am - it actually works pretty good









Dale


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

I used a lot of hay last year also.
Stuffing that ball of hay in the top does a really good job as a spark arrestor.
One downside is that some grasses have a smoke that really soak into your clothes.
Great smoke, but you walk around smelling like a burn pile.

George, there was also an article in ABJ a couple of years ago about walnut leaves.
I'll see if I can dig it up.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm still using walnut wood shavings from last summer, they make a great thick smoke. Keeping your fuel dry is #1 priority.

I experimented some with dried Rubarb leaves last year and it made an incredibly potent, thick, likely toxic smoke. Didn't seem to harm bees. Maybe this year I'll don the gas mask and use it again. Varroa control?

I'm still looking for tobacco cuttings to use.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

First order of business, get the biggest smoker in the catalog. I just upgraded from a 4x7 to a 4x11 and it was an epiphany. Next, and this is personal opinion, get one with a conical top, not a domed top. The domed top seems to trap moisture which in turn damps the fire. Dadant and probably others have the conical top. Brushy has the domed top at least on the smaller smokers. As a said, that could be conjecture, but that's my experience. In 4 years, I never got the small smoker to stay lit like the big one did this week.


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## 2hives (Apr 1, 2004)

I've tried just about everything, and I believe I've found that untreated burlap works best for me. I bought a large piece at a hardware store, cut it into 8" squares. I light one outside of the smoker (mine is the 4" X 7" small model), when it's going good, stuff it into the smoker, puff the bellows a few times showing good fire coming up, add 3 or 4 more pieces, balled up, keep puffing. Smoker works great for about 20 minutes, which is good for a small-time hobbyist with only one or 2 hives to go through. With a larger operation, a large smoker with 6 or 7 sheets of burlap should do well.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>untreated burlap

Aye, it burns good but man does it stink! I'm not above using it when I find it laying around, but pine needles and twigs make me reminice about hours (never wasted mind you) sitting around a camp fire.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

you guys keep trying those new weeds in your smoker, but just make sure when you wake up three days later, nude and all greased up as the newest attraction in some carnival freakshow, you remember what kind of weed it was so you can tell the rest of us.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

I"ve started using Cedar Shavings that you buy for animal bedding. It lights real good, stays lit and if you put more on top of what's lit it gives a cool smoke also. Not to mention the smell is awesome.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

*thread hijack*

Hi Rod, long time no see!

Hope all is well with you over there...how's the bees?

LaRae


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

I have tried most of the above with the exception of moose dung. My normal everyday fuel is either burlap (lots of cresote buildup), aged bailer twine or cardboard. In a pinch one time I tried chestnut burrs and really liked the smoke. It was hard to get enough burrs in the smoker to last a while


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

I'll chime in here that I tend to have to open-and-bellow quite a few times, but once I'm done the dadgum thing just smokes and smokes until I water it. I'll have to try elk pellets, my yard's knee-deep (and my plants ankle-high)







. 

I did switch to cedar shavings and they're much better for me than previous recipes. My new plan... get a layer of busted-up lath pieces going and then cover/lightly tamp with cedar. Though the corn cobs sound good... the one kitchen waste item I don't compost besides large bones.


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

I will from now own use cedar shavings. Love the smell and lots,lots,lots,lots,lots and lots of
did i mention lots of cool smoke.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

Have you ever been in a pine forest and seen 1-2 inches of brown pine needles under your feet. That's brown not green. Have you ever fought a forest fire and lost. Hospitalized. Scarred for life.

I just dump in a handfull of pine needles and light it from the top. It works. It stays lit until I don't need it anymore. I use a cork in the outlet. I don't check to see when it goes out. Sorry.

Never tried moose sign. Never seen moose sign in Colorado. Never know which hunting tales to believe.

Hawk


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

I've seen moose here, up in Rocky Mtn Nat'l Park on the Western side o' the divide. Almost head-butted (like eight feet) a cow and calf backpacking three years ago coming around a sharp bend. Only the laundryman knew how scared I was  . They leaped the creek and headed into the adjoining meadow, leaving us to gather wits and wend our way past, fortunately. 

Hope those scars were figurative Hawk, sorry to hear.


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## Zarka (Jan 14, 2006)

pine needles are my all time favorite: easy to light, thick white smoke, hard to put out.

If it's cold and wet out, a little wood shavings and wax helps (stuff they sell as fire starters is just this). The paper that goes between foundation works well as a starter.


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## Miellerie St-Stan (Mar 22, 2006)

For smoker fuel I used compress alfalfa pellets. These pellets are used to feed primarely horses.
It will last for 3-4 hours only on 1 load. Let it still and it's going to run for a whole day.
The size of the pellets are roughly the size of an ice cube. With a torch you light up the first 5,6 pellets and the fill the smoker up and just add a little bit of grass on top to act as a filter(it will also hold the pellets together). It doesn't flame it just burns up slowly and create a lot of smoke. You will find this product normally where they sell feed for livestock.


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