# My 14 medium frame OBSERVATION hive!



## pawn57




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## pawn57




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## pawn57




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## johnbeejohn

very kooooollllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you build it your self ? hope to see some pictures this fall when she is filled up


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## pawn57

johnbeejohn said:


> very kooooollllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you build it your self ? hope to see some pictures this fall when she is filled up


YA YA!! thanks!! I built it myself in my kitchen, with a skill saw and a hack saw. lol. !!! Cant wait to get bees in it!!!!!!!!


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## dynemd

Hope you keep your house warm! What do you plan to use to cover the clear sides when not viewing?


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## pawn57

dynemd said:


> Hope you keep your house warm! What do you plan to use to cover the clear sides when not viewing?


probably drape a blanket, tarp, et cetera or something over it, or maybe i'll make a cover.
*
Does anyone know how much darkness it needs? I heard that bees can get used to the light. I wonder if it is possible to leave it uncovered all the time?

If that's not good. how long is it ok to leave uncovered at a time, and how often?*


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## COAL REAPER

man thats gonna be fun!
anybody have experience using glass/plexi like this without a framed door? wonder if the bee will propolize it to the wood in the corner making it difficult to remove??


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## D Coates

Very cool! As for how much darkness is needed? No idea. I've left my covers off for hours with no long term visible disruption in hive activity. Initially the foragers have some confusion of where the exit it because of the sudden infusion of light. After that, they figure it out and get back to work. Whatever you do make sure they're not in full sun and exposed. Things will get hot otherwise.

This brings me to possible challenges you may face. Is the exit hole the copper tube? I've got a 5 deep frame OB hive. When the hive is at full strength the 1.25" opening I've got creates congestion to their ability to enter/exit the hive. Considering you're hive is about 2/3 again larger than mine you're gong to need some serious openings for the hive to operate properly.

Lastly how are you going to get it outside? With an OB hive you've got to work them more than a regular hive. This requires carrying it outside. When fully loaded with stores before winter my 5 deep frame OB hive is a challenge to carry and I installed lift grips. To be fair I use 3/8" tempered glass on mine and it's heavy. You might consider installing 6"-8" wheels for that or a dolly you can strap it to for wheeling it outside. 

COAL REAPER has a good question. No experience using plexiglass but yes they'll propolize it to the wood. No trouble getting it off with a hive tool. The trouble will be putting it back on. When the hive is at full strength they'll be all over and trying to get the whole plexiglass sheet on at the same time will create quite the challenge. Assuming only two hands and using an electric drill to screw it back on and the bees will be even harder to control.

I'm not being critical. I love what you've done. Consider the points raised and how to overcome them. Once bees are in the hive the challenges are a whole lot harder to resolve.


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## pawn57

Thanks D coates.

I will consider all your points.

Do you run yours all year long? How long has it been established?

Is it possible that since mine is so large I may not have to work it much. I thought small Observation hives where high maintenance, so I thought a large one would be much less maintenance. Do you agree?



D Coates said:


> When the hive is at full strength the 1.25" opening I've got creates congestion to their ability to enter/exit the hive. Considering you're hive is about 2/3 again larger than mine you're gong to need some serious openings for the hive to operate properly.


Yes the copper tube is exit.
Perhaps I could install several tubes and open and close them as needed.
5 deeps would be about 7 1/2 mediums I think. If so mine (14 mediums) is almost twice yours. So I think I may make bigger or more exit(s).
How much congestion do you get and what is that like? Is it like a bee beard outside the pipe waiting to get in, and a ball off bees in the corner of hive waiting to get out?


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## pawn57

dynemd said:


> Hope you keep your house warm!


How warm? Wouldn't normal climate controlled house be a good temp? And in winter I think cooler is better to keep activity down. Am I correct?


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## Scott Gough

Wow. That is a huge observation hive. I also would like to see pictures when there are bees in it later this year. Good luck!


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## Michael Bush

>Does anyone know how much darkness it needs? I heard that bees can get used to the light. I wonder if it is possible to leave it uncovered all the time?

I have seen them in nature centers where they were open all the time. Mine act stressed after a hour or two, so I cover them with a black cloth.

>If that's not good. how long is it ok to leave uncovered at a time, and how often?

Until they start running on the glass. It will be obvious.

>How warm? Wouldn't normal climate controlled house be a good temp? And in winter I think cooler is better to keep activity down. Am I correct?

Mine are in my 70 F living room all winter and they do fine. I think cooler would not be good. They pretty much need to raise a small batch or two of brood over winter to make it to spring. Cooler would make that impossible.


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## Phoebee

Gloriosky! That thing makes the one at the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History look pathetic!.

Speaking of which, the last time I saw the Smithsonian bug wing, their obs hive was in sorry shape, just a few bees, no brood, no stores. Our club would not show an obs hive that weak, although few people will offer a prize nuc for this duty. We try not to leave a hive on display for more than a couple of days, and daily rotation is better.

I think the strategy on a hive on display like that has to be a frequent rotation of the bees. I suspect you could have several obs hives going, but usually covered up, each with a flexible entrance tube going outdoors, each tube to a different entrance. I'm using a single nuc on such an entrance right now, and it overwintered OK. With that scheme you could move the hives without moving entrances. In my case the hive has a detachable "foyer", with thin aluminum gates that close on the foyer and hive body, so I can detach the hive and take it outdoors for inspections. The goal this year is to rig it to an obs hive.


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## Barry

I hope you aren't disappointed after all the work you put into this hive. Not having ever seen a 14 frame single depth OB hive, something tells me the bees are not going to take very well to having their comb in a natural size and shape, taken apart and spread out across the 14 frame area. We'll be watching how this plays out. Good luck.


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## pawn57

How much entry size do I need for this size hive? opinions? thanks.


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## pawn57

also, if it needs a certain size, for optimum, but I have smaller size, what will be the consequence? would it still work?


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## D Coates

pawn57 said:


> Do you run yours all year long? How long has it been established?


Mine has been running for 5 years now but out of all the hives I have it's the most effort. As a beekeeper it challenges you.



pawn57 said:


> Is it possible that since mine is so large I may not have to work it much. I thought small Observation hives where high maintenance, so I thought a large one would be much less maintenance. Do you agree?


 Yes smaller ones are more maintenance but there's a law of diminishing returns going on here. A larger one that's hard to move and doesn't have adequate exits/entrances will create a whole new set of maintenance challenges. The biggest mistake I made with mine was assuming bees can travel straight up PVC pipe. They cannot. Killed 1/2 the hive finding this out. Huge stinky mess that a broken strap from a ratchet strap hanging down inside the pipe took care of.



pawn57 said:


> Yes the copper tube is exit.
> Perhaps I could install several tubes and open and close them as needed.
> 5 deeps would be about 7 1/2 mediums I think. If so mine (14 mediums) is almost twice yours. So I think I may make bigger or more exit(s).
> How much congestion do you get and what is that like? Is it like a bee beard outside the pipe waiting to get in, and a ball off bees in the corner of hive waiting to get out?


Agreed on yours being a little over 2x mine. They'll beard outside and you can hear the hustle and bustle of them trying to get out. I believe they beard outside more because in the dead of summer the pipe gets hot as it's in direct afternoon sun. They chew the wood around the opening trying to increase the opening size inside the hive. After 5 years they've actually made decent progress for honeybees. The problem your entrance/exit may present is very little food will get in. Once they fly out they won't be able to get back in until evening when everyone is going back in. In my estimation this is your biggest challenge.


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## dynemd

I would think that the one deep surface area and inability to cluster would make this hive very susceptible to cool temperatures. Large surface area and lack of ventilation would make them less tolerant of high temps and sunlight. JMHO without any experience with observation hives...


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## pawn57

D Coates said:


> A larger one that's hard to move and doesn't have adequate exits/entrances will create a whole new set of maintenance challenges.


Thanks. What are the maintenance challenges? so if it is larger and I put it buy a door and it's not hard to move (since I am strong) lol. And if I go ahead and make the exit very large. would that be good and low maintenance?

I was thinking I could put 4 or 5, 3/4 inch pipes that went to a big box that had a 2 or 3 inch pipe that went through the wall. would that alleviate the problem?


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## pawn57

Or maybe I'll just live with the single small tube and see how it works out.


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## Phoebee

pawn57 said:


> How much entry size do I need for this size hive? opinions? thanks.


Rather than offer an answer, I suggest that you have the woodworking skills to build some sort of interchangeable entrance. We do this with entrance reducers ... why not with an obs hive entrance? Swap it out for a panel with a larger hole if a small one is having a traffic jam.

My little indoor-overwintered nuc needs its "entrance foyer" replaced. I used 1" vinyl tubing, with barbed hose fittings on either end, and that's choking them badly already. I'm planning to expand this 5-frame nuc to 1 1/2" tubing and fittings. That suggests to me that a 14-frame may need 3 times that area, or more. Actually, I'd guess the hole circumference is more important than the area.


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## johnbeejohn

that thing is so tall you could make a top entrence and put it out the top of your double window if thats what you have in your house


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## DARSH

pawn57 said:


> probably drape a blanket, tarp, et cetera or something over it, or maybe i'll make a cover.
> *
> Does anyone know how much darkness it needs? I heard that bees can get used to the light. I wonder if it is possible to leave it uncovered all the time?
> 
> If that's not good. how long is it ok to leave uncovered at a time, and how often?*


NORMALLY BEES MAKE THEIR HIVES BETWEEN TREES BUT DARKNESS AND WARM IMPORTANT FOR THE NEW LARVA AND THE QUEEN SO ITS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THEM IN DARKNESS .THE QUEEN MY GET DIE SO TAKE CARE


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## jbeshearse

DARSH said:


> NORMALLY BEES MAKE THEIR HIVES BETWEEN TREES BUT DARKNESS AND WARM IMPORTANT FOR THE NEW LARVA AND THE QUEEN SO ITS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THEM IN DARKNESS .THE QUEEN MY GET DIE SO TAKE CARE


Nope. I have a 6 medium frame observation hive glass on both sides. Sits outside my dining room window. Hardly ever cover the glass. They have done very well making new queens etc. I have been transferring bees from it to make new production hives about twice a year. I do not overwinter them in it because temperature control is difficult in a narrow hive. My OB is two frames wide by three high. The queen does spend a lot of time between the frames, but they raise brood in the frames facing the glass just fine. And remember, they get darkness at night.


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## D Coates

pawn57 said:


> Thanks. What are the maintenance challenges? so if it is larger and I put it buy a door and it's not hard to move (since I am strong) lol. And if I go ahead and make the exit very large. would that be good and low maintenance?
> 
> I was thinking I could put 4 or 5, 3/4 inch pipes that went to a big box that had a 2 or 3 inch pipe that went through the wall. would that alleviate the problem?


More entrances/exits will alleviate that problem. It's no hard to move now because it's empty. Put bees in there with their wax, larva, and honey and you'll find it tough to move. Combine the weight with its overall size and it'll tax you. I'm plenty strong as well and when my hive is going into winter it's a challenge to move. I carry it 50 yards through 2 offices and a lunch room out to the "smoke shack" where employees take their breaks to work on it (after hours). It's got nice convenient hand grips too. 

Maintenance challenges? Simply working a hive, i.e. maintaining it. When you first put bees in there you'll find problems. What are they going to be? No telling, no hive is the same but because it's in a an OB hive it's a whole lot harder to work. There's no just popping it open and installing or stealing a frame a brood. It's a 1/2 hour job to work mine and that's with experience. As I gained more experience I've gotten much faster but rushing is a recipe for additional problems. 

Case in point for simple maintenance I went out of town for a couple days about a week ago. The hive was doing very well and appeared to have enough stores that I didn't need to feed before I left. I was wrong the queen had laid eggs everywhere and the resulting larva needed lots of food. I got back, the bottom of the hive was full of dead. Those that were alive were not working brood and were lethargic. The hive was cool to the touch. Long story short, the were starving and the majority of the brood died. SHB's hit the dead on the bottom quickly. I've had to get into the hive 3 times in the past week to clean out dead and SHB larva from the bottom of the hive.

They're now coming back just fine but it was close and it's yet one more learning lesson an OB hive will teach. 



pawn57 said:


> Or maybe I'll just live with the single small tube and see how it works out.


You might. They won't. They'll abscond or slowly starve to death, unless you're feeding them syrup regularly. Even then they'll have trouble bringing in enough pollen with the single small tube to raise enough brood to overwinter.

How many hives, or years of experience working bees do you have?


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## pawn57

jbeshearse said:


> Nope. I have a 6 medium frame observation hive glass on both sides. Sits outside my dining room window. Hardly ever cover the glass. They have done very well making new queens etc. I have been transferring bees from it to make new production hives about twice a year. I do not overwinter them in it because temperature control is difficult in a narrow hive. My OB is two frames wide by three high. The queen does spend a lot of time between the frames, but they raise brood in the frames facing the glass just fine. And remember, they get darkness at night.


jbeshearse
Thank you, very helpful information.



> "Sits outside my dining room window."


Outside like exterior of the house? or did you mean inside the house by the window? any way if sun hits the glass won't it melt the wax?



> they raise brood in the frames facing the glass just fine.


What is the spacing between the glass in your hive? and do they build come on the glass?
Thankyou for your time and great help.


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## pawn57

D Coates said:


> More entrances/exits will alleviate that problem.


Thank you for that information.



> Maintenance challenges? Simply working a hive, i.e. maintaining it. When you first put bees in there you'll find problems. What are they going to be? No telling, no hive is the same but because it's in a an OB hive it's a whole lot harder to work. There's no just popping it open and installing or stealing a frame a brood. It's a 1/2 hour job to work mine and that's with experience. As I gained more experience I've gotten much faster but rushing is a recipe for additional problems.
> 
> Case in point for simple maintenance I went out of town for a couple days about a week ago. The hive was doing very well and appeared to have enough stores that I didn't need to feed before I left. I was wrong the queen had laid eggs everywhere and the resulting larva needed lots of food. I got back, the bottom of the hive was full of dead. Those that were alive were not working brood and were lethargic. The hive was cool to the touch. Long story short, the were starving and the majority of the brood died. SHB's hit the dead on the bottom quickly. I've had to get into the hive 3 times in the past week to clean out dead and SHB larva from the bottom of the hive.
> 
> They're now coming back just fine but it was close and it's yet one more learning lesson an OB hive will teach.
> 
> You might. They won't. They'll abscond or slowly starve to death, unless you're feeding them syrup regularly. Even then they'll have trouble bringing in enough pollen with the single small tube to raise enough brood to overwinter.


Thank you for that information. Very helpful I appreciate it alot.



> How many hives, or years of experience working bees do you have?


I have less than a year. I am very determined though and read and study everyday. Bees excite me very much!!
Thanks again.


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## pawn57

D Coates said:


> SHB's hit the dead on the bottom quickly.


Does SHB's = small hive beetles?

Hit the dead? Do SHB's eat the dead bees?

Will bees kill SHB, or just chase them away?

If the entrance is big enough, will the bees carry the dead ones out of the hive?

Thanks.


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## D Coates

pawn57 said:


> Does SHB's = small hive beetles?
> 
> Hit the dead? Do SHB's eat the dead bees?
> 
> Will bees kill SHB, or just chase them away?
> 
> If the entrance is big enough, will the bees carry the dead ones out of the hive?
> 
> Thanks.


1. yes
2. they lay eggs in the dead and undefended, the larva emerge into a writhing mass of maggots. It's pretty gross and stinks.
3. they can if they're strong enough to get at the SHB's. If not, without beekeeper intervention, they will take over a hive and the bees will abscond.
4. yes, but not always all of them. The beekeeper must watch closely and remove if they build up enough to get SHB's going.

I'd recommend getting a few more years under your belt before diving into a OB hive. I would have been completely overwhelmed without the additional years of experience.


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## jbeshearse

pawn57 said:


> Outside like exterior of the house? or did you mean inside the house by the window? any way if sun hits the glass won't it melt the wax?


Outside the house. It gets a bit of direct sun in the morning but mostly shaded. Direct sun will melt wax, so you should put a cover on the side facing the sun if it might be an issue.



pawn57 said:


> What is the spacing between the glass in your hive? and do they build come on the glass?


The photo of the hive in this link allowed just a bit too much room between the frame and the glass and they did build burr comb. The best is to press the frame end bar right up to the glass and they will not build bur comb. But you inevitably squish bees when closing the hive up.

The following link is a photo of my previous hive (with too much spacing at the glass). My new hive is narrower. The second link is a folder with additional photos and the hive plans

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7265272450/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157631787992353


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