# How do you start a TBH from scratch?



## Andy382 (May 7, 2015)

I'm a newbee, 1st year have 6 Langstroth hives of Italians and they are doing great. I realize if they make it through the winter like I hope I'll have to make splits next spring to prevent swarming. I was wanting to build a couple TBH this winter and next spring start them. My question is how? Would I just close off the entrance and shake some frames of bees in there and take a queen from a strong & put in there & let that strong hive make their own queen or just buy a queen? It seems like once you get started & have frames to work with starting a new hive wouldn't be hard. I got the 6 I have now from nucs & not a package, maybe that's why it's hard to wrap my brain around right now since I'm a visual & hands on learner. Thanks for the advice as always


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

One option is to put some TBH bars into your Lang brood area to get some comb drawn on the TBH bars before you actually populate the TBH. Ideally, you could end up with brood in some of that comb on the TBH bars (while still in the Lang). That would make it easier to anchor the bees in the TBH when you do populate the TBH.

If your TBH bars aren't long enough for the Lang, temporarily screw an appropriate adapter to the bar.

.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Andy - You actually have a few different options to go with in getting a TBH populated. Since you started from NUC's one of the methods would be a little strange I guess. 
For most folks that want to start a TBH they use this way.
Method 1 - Package installation directly. It's just like putting a package in the Lang equipment, but you don't want to hang the queen cage between bars as they will start drawing comb around it first.
Method 2 - Take nurse bees from several of your other hives, shake into the box with a new queen. Keep them in shaded area locked in for a couple days with ventlation. 
Method 3 - Most sought after method as well. Find someone that actually makes up TBH NUC's. They aren't real popular just yet but there are those that make them.
Method 4 - Make your own TBH NUC from one of your established hives. Simply build a minature TBH that will sit on top of LANG equipment. Then sit it directly upon a LANG that is in the process of building up and feed. They will draw out the NUC and once populated well you can move it and the queen to another TBH. Either allow the Lang to make their own queen, or purchase new for it.

Thos are just some of the methods, not a hard in stone list. I'm sure there are other ways to get your start in a TBH. Hope this helps.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Actually did this so maybe you should consider it. I took frames and cut them to fit the top bar hive. The first time I did it I was sure it would not work. Figured the circular saw would destroy the combs. Boy was I wrong. The saw cut the combs like it was butter and left very clean edges. I used an everyday rip/cross cut blade with 27 teeth. I'm pretty sure I could do it to active frames but I'd shake the bees off first. 
Basically cut from the bottom up. Use your follower as a pattern but cut slightly smaller for bee space. You CAN do it. (I did) Leave the top bar of the frame intact. You'll cut as far as you can, stop, then finish with a drywall saw or utility knife. Bottom and sides get torn off.

I'm probably the only one crazy or stupid enough to try cutting lang frames with combs with a circular saw. It worked tho. Hint: I used a thin piece of luan (plywood) to run the saw on so it didn't drag on the combs and bend them all up. Being a wood-butcher by trade helped.

Note: you will have to cut shims to fill the gaps at the top of the lang frames or bees come out the top which is not cool in a KTBH. Design your top bar hives so that there is 16.75 inches inside to inside measurement at the top and the frames will work like bars.


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## Andy382 (May 7, 2015)

Also how do you extract honey from a TBH frame? Do you just have to cut off the comb or is there anyway to extract honey from the frame without destroying the comb? Just curious?


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

Ruthiesbees has a writeup on using an electric knife to remove part of the comb to harvest, leaving part for the bees to rebuild.

https://www.facebook.com/topbarbeehive

Scroll down to the June 11 entry...


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Direct link should be in this thread for the video. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?313544-A-new-way-to-harvest-honey-from-a-top-bar-hive

The bees did rebuild all that comb to full size and have filled it with nectar/pollen by Oct 1. However, I really don't know if it's worth the effort or not. The cut comb honey from a topbar hive can be sold at a very good premium price, so you might just focus on the honey that way. And each bar tends to taste a bit different from the other one so the "different taste" factor is great for customers to buy multiple bars. 

For a backyard beekeeper, crush and strain of a couple bars each month is really the way to go. I do find myself using a queen excluder on the back 1/3 of the 4ft hive, otherwise she will lay it all up with eggs. As I find a bar of unfinished nectar, I move it behind the QE and give them an empty bar back in the brood nest to draw. Sometimes a strong hive will run out of room and the bars are not quite finished so I move those over to a not-as-strong hive to finish capping.

Key thing is to have all the TBH's be the same size so you can swap. And mine have bars that fit inside a Lang so it's great. I get them from Beeline Apiaries and woodenware. They also sell a kit that you could buy and then copy all their measurements. I use the boards they recommend for the roof and make them into a second hive. They sell the end bars and topbars separately. Also have an in-hive feeder.


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