# Mosquito control in bee water



## VAMOM

How about you put in a few goldfish.. They will eat the larvae.. The only thing you will have to do is make sure it does not freeze solid in the winter..


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## Foster

If you don't get the goldfish then I would just dump the water out whenever you see mosquitoes.


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## ArkansasBK

If you are trying to save the water lilly, I'd go with the goldfish. Otherwise, i like a water drip on a rough-sawn board set at an angle. Don't have to worry about drowning.


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## Michael Bush

Bt
They make dunks for mosquitoes.


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## DRAKOS

Pure a little salt in the water. Bees love it, and mosquitos do not go.


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## VAMOM

Michael: So the dunks are safe for the bees?? Good to know.. researching that has been on my list of things to do..


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## Michael Bush

Bt is used in hives for wax moths. It was registered for that specific use in the US at one time but the registration has lapsed and no one has renewed it. It is available labeled for that purpose in Canada and Europe. I don't think it will hurt the bees. But I admit I'm partial to the gold fish. My bee water is in five gallon buckets and I empty and refill them at least once a week and try to do it twice a week. This seems to work.


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## LaReine

Thanks for all the good ideas. I think I will try the goldfish, but it's good to know about the other options, too.


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## Kieck

> Bt is used in hives for wax moths. -Michael Bush


Different strain of Bt. The Bt used against wax moths is _Bacillus thuringiensis aizawai_. It affects certain lepidopterous caterpillars specifically, including wax moths. The Bt used in mosquito larvae control is _B. thuringiensis israelensis_. It affects certain dipterous (fly) larvae specifically. Neither should affect bees. Both occur naturally in many locations, and bees are exposed to them naturally as well.


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## Rader Sidetrack

I too thought that _Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis _would be suitable for bee consumption (in water), but after reading the EPA fact sheet on it, now I don't think so. See the section quoted below.


> *Birds: mallard duck and bobwhite quail (154-16)
> *Cited studies indicate that _Bt israelensis_ is not toxic or pathogenic to either of these species after acute or subacute testing.
> *Non-target insects: green lace wing larvae, parasitic hymenoptera, predaceous Coleoptera (154-23)
> *Cited studies indicate that _Bt israelensis_ shows little to no toxicity in any of the tested species.
> *Non-target insects: honey bee (154-24)
> *Cited study demonstrates that _Bt israelensis_ has minimal toxicity to honey bees.



The full document is here:
http://www.epa.gov/oppbppd1/biopesticides//ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_006476.htm

Note the different wording for toxicity to bees compared to lace wing larvae or ducks. The phrase "_minimal toxicity to honey bees_" is not much of an endorsement. If even a few of my bees are killed (along with mosquito larva), I am not going to be happy. I will use a different method.


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## VAMOM

yes, Graham, that was the document I had read.. I did'nt know what "minimal toxicity" really meant but also didn't think of reading its affects on other insects for a comparison in the wording. I have been meaning to do more research.. But I am also more inclined to just change the water often.
I live in a county that requires a water source for the bees within 50 feet. I have a pond (with plants and fish) and a birdbath but they are both farther away, so I got another birdbath to have within the require distance. 
I live in an urban area and I assume neighbors will be using the dunks, so my bees with be exposed to it there.


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## KQ6AR

Our county gives away mosquito fish. We have these & water plants in our wine barrel for the bees.


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## LaReine

Mosquitofish sound like just the ticket. Unfortunately, my county doesn't give them away for free. But I found an online source, LiveAquaria.com; $1.29 ea. Here is their info on the Mosquitofish:

The beneficial Mosquito Fish can consume large quantities of insect larvae in your pond. Most backyard water garden enthusiasts use this species of Gambusia to control, as its name suggests, mosquitoes. However, this voracious feeder will also consume other insect larvae and algae to benefit your pond in numerous ways. First, the Mosquito Fish helps prevent your pond from becoming a backyard breeding ground for potentially disease-carrying mosquitoes. Secondly, it helps keep your pond beautiful by feeding on algae and hatching insects that can damage pond plants and the overall aesthetics of your pond or water garden.

Native to the backwaters and freshwater ponds of North and Central America, Gambusia sp. is related to the common guppy and very similar in characteristics. The body is long and slender and pale in color. Most Mosquito Fish have a tail of moderate size, void of any coloration. Varieties of Mosquito Fish can be found naturally as far north as Central Illinois and most survive harsh, freezing winters as long as the pond is deep enough and well aerated throughout the cold season. 

For best care, the Mosquito Fish requires a pond of at least 20 gallons with moderate water temperature and plenty of plants for hiding. If insufficient natural foods are present, supplement their diet with a quality flake food. 

Also, while looking on the Colorado mosquito control site, I found this about _B. thuringiensis israeliensis_. Apparently in Colorado it "has no toxic effects" on honey bees:

Bti (Bacillus thuringiensis sub. israeliensis)

Bti is an environmentally responsible bio-larvicide derived from Bacillus thuringiensis sub. israeliensis (Bti), a naturally occurring spore and crystal forming soil bacterium. The active ingredient of Bti is a crystalline delta-endotoxin. Mosquito larvae are killed through the ingestion of the delta-endotoxin. When larvae ingest the Bti, the delta-endotoxin reacts with the stomach secretions and causes gut paralysis and death. Bti is the most widely used mosquito larvicide in the United States. The safety of Bti was determined by extensive toxicological testing before approval for use. Research and field trials have shown that Bti has no toxic effects on beneficial and predacious arthropods and insects such as honeybees, beetles, mayflies, dragonflies, damselflies, stoneflies, caddisflies and true bugs. Among Diptera (true flies and midges) Chaoborus species, Ephydra riparia, Musca domestica, Odontomyia species, and Polypedilum species showed no susceptibility to Bti. Varying degrees of mortality occurred among Chrironomus pulmosus, Chrionomus stigmaterus, Dixa species, Goeldchironomus holoprasinus and Palpomyia species. Among butterflies and moths, low levels of toxicity were observed only in Aporia crataegi, Euproctis chuysorriea, and Malacosoma neustrium. No toxicity from Bti was observed in crustacea including larvivorus copepod species, fish, oysters, shrimp, crabs, mollusks, flatworms, and amphibia.


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## VAMOM

I wonder how they compare to other fish and if it would make a difference in a small container like yours. I paid $1.00 for a dozen small goldfish. I didn't get the fancy ones, instead rescued some that are sold as feeders. I have had them for 3 years or so.. I have 9 that survived in a pond about three times bigger than yours. I have never seen any mosquito larvae in the pond and my kids also like to dig up small earthworms and feed them to the fish every once in a while..


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## KQ6AR

The mosquito fish are small, like a guppy. They multiply in my barrel.
You only need about 5 of them in the half barrel


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## VAMOM

Dan, Do you have some? I wonder how they do in colder climates.. Our summers are hot, but temps drop down to 20-30s in the winter. 
It's good to know that they multiply that fast!


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## KQ6AR

Hi,
Our nights in the winter drop down to the 20's at the lowest, 30's are more common. The surface of the water freezes often, but thaws every day.
The fish survive these conditions, but the water plants go in an aquarium in the greenhouse it stays a little above freezing.


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## calvindonald

Thank you all its really mind clearing information.


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## Grady Stanley

KQ6AR said:


> Hi,
> Our nights in the winter drop down to the 20's at the lowest, 30's are more common. The surface of the water freezes often, but thaws every day.
> The fish survive these conditions, but the water plants go in an aquarium in the greenhouse it stays a little above freezing.


https://theponddigger.com/mosquito-fish/
Gambusia affinis are hardy and can tolerate wide temperatures and water quality ranges. Although, they usually survive brief periods of nearly freezing temperatures, they may die after prolonged exposure. Sources stocked with them should be examined after cold weather to verify that the fish are still present.


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## Hogback Honey

I've goldfish in my troughs, each trough holds about 600 gallons. I too get the 'feeder' goldfish, about .10 to .20 cents each. Works great. I did not know the 'bt' may be harmful to bees, just this year I put some in a small 50 gallon trough, since we had a warm January, I won't be using it again.


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## SoylentYellow

From EPA https://www.epa.gov/mosquitocontrol/bti-mosquito-control##9

9. Is Bti harmful to wildlife including honey bees?

Studies indicate Bti has minimal toxicity to honey bees. Bti produces toxins that specifically affect the larvae of only mosquitoes, black flies and fungus gnats. These toxins do not affect other types of insects including honey bees.


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## grozzie2

When we bought our home there was a pond right outside the office door. I said to my wife 'The mosquito factory has to go', and planned on ripping out the pond. It's about 15 feet in diameter with lillies and a few other plants. Someone suggested goldfish as an interim solution until we could get it removed, so I put half a dozen feeders in the pond, that was over 4 years ago. The goldfish have pro-created over the years, now there is about a dozen in there, and we have never had an issue with mosquitos, but the bees use the pond extensively for water when the weather gets warm in the summer. FYI, we have never put food for the goldfish into that pond. Koi apparently need constant feeding, but, with a good selection of plants in the pond, goldfish will do just fine was what folks told me, and our experience has born this out.


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## FlowerPlanter

Full sun can greatly reduce mosquitos, use a small amount of water like a bird bath that needs to be refilled once or twice a week.

You may not need it, even if you set it up you may find they are still getting water from somewhere else. 

I do use fish in my rain barrels and they work well.


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## calvindonald

calvindonald said:


> Thank you all its really mind clearing information.


find worthy battery supported insect killer from here


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