# 6F nucs for honey production



## Fusion_power

What size frames will you be using? Langstroth 9 1/8 deep? Langstroth 6 1/4 Medium? Dadant 11 1/4?

Are you planning on treating two nucs as a unit and add a single large super above them for honey production?


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## sakhoney

What if later you want to sell these? I would go with something standard - like 8 framers. Then if you ever get into trouble and need more supers - you can order these - don't know anyone making 6 framers. If your going to sell nucs then these boxes would do - but it seams 5 framers are the new standard - 20 years ago it was 4 framers.
And fusion has a couple of good questions as well


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## Cristian

Fusion_power : 

I use 9 1/8 deeps . I plan to have 3 6F nucs on a 2-way pallet and then add two QE plus supers on top of them .

After the last flow I would like to strip them of and add another 6F box to let them prepare for winter ( this will be around 1 August ) . 

Sakhoney : I would want to sell them next year after making them . In first one I make some honey with them and then sell in spring as a good production hive or if not a lot of splits made in the next summer in case I can't sell in spring . 
Here we do not follow standards as well as over the pond &#55357;&#56836; .


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## Outdoor N8

I like your idea. My 6F Nucs must be a different width (backyard made 10.25 in. W.) than yours, the two 10F supers hang off a bit, I wonder about 8F supers.

I could see this as a drawn comb building machine too on heavy flows. Especially if capped brood was moved into the super and fresh foundation given to the queen.


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## Ian




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## texanbelchers

Ian is clearly a well spoken man of few words....


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## Cristian

Yikes ! Nice nucs . How did you get to this stage with those nucs ? . How are you managing them . 
Side by side with a single production hive how they are when comparing honey yields ? .


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## zhiv9

ice! Is Lewis making the 6 frame boxes? are they available through Beemaid?


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## Ian

Not sure if BeeMaid sells them , probably 
Talk directly to them and they would figure a deal. Mention you were talking to me.


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## Ian

Cristian said:


> Yikes ! Nice nucs . How did you get to this stage with those nucs ? . How are you managing them .
> Side by side with a single production hive how they are when comparing honey yields ? .


I simply split 2 brood frames and bees per nuc and dropped a queen cell in each. Made up first week June, adding thirds last week of July. Im not sure what the honey yeild comparison would be, mostly because they are totally different than how I manage the rest of my operstion. These are strictly to build hives, cheaply and the ability to box them up as such allows us to actually make nucs without honey bound nests. The honey is bonus. Big bonus this year as you can see. 
Don't buy bees, buy boxes.


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## Ian

6 frames is the way to go. That extra frame makes all the difference


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## cervus

Nice! Is that a rape field your boxes are in?


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## Ian

Sections of canola, that one is ours


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## sakhoney

If I'm gonna do 6 - I'm just going to bump them to 8's


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## Ian

The whole point to this kinda project is to build units with minimal resources and manage the surplus honey stores by tapping into your standardized super inventory.


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## RayMarler

Very Nice Ian! Too bad all my equipment is 8 framers. I'm not in a good honey flow area anyway, but if I was, I'd be trying a couple or three of those set-ups. :thumbsup:


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## sakhoney

Ian - if that's the case why did you not flip them in a 10 when they got built up - what I see is 6 frame brood nest - that would only hold back a good laying queen. I though this was for nucs - I will add - the crop does look good - love seeing that white wax myself


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## cervus

I don't get it. 3 separate nucs on the bottom, ok I get that. But the deep supers overlap 2 nucs. Is there a division board in each super?


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## Ian

cervus said:


> I don't get it. 3 separate nucs on the bottom, ok I get that. But the deep supers overlap 2 nucs. Is there a division board in each super?


They share the upper space, excluders keep the queens in each individual unit. Exponential honey production when managed this way. Because of the smaller brood nest, more attention is put uptop. 
I could manage them into singles but then my honey yeild would be minimal with a honey bound brood nest. I run 5 frames under a deep aswell.


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## sakhoney

looks like he has QE in between - thereby restricting the queen output of eggs - don't know if that would work here where I am.
IAN - I am for sure not damming you for this - this is how everybody including myself learn what you can do with bees. I just thank it would restrict egg laying on the queens. Anyway - good job


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## Ian

sakhoney said:


> Ian - if that's the case why did you not flip them in a 10 when they got built up - what I see is 6 frame brood nest - that would only hold back a good laying queen. I though this was for nucs - I will add - the crop does look good - love seeing that white wax myself


Your not understanding what's going on. I'm not holding back the queen. The calendar comes into play, by placing unlimited space up top with a smaller nest to maintain more attention is pushed upwards. Big nests don't always equal big crops


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## cervus

Ah, now I understand. Thank you sir.


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## Ian

Go into 5 hives tomorrow and tell me how many full frames of brood you have. Not including anything but brood and a bit of feed


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## RayMarler

It looked to me like three 6 framers side by side, with two excluders side by side on top, then two 10 frame boxes side by side on top of the excluders. Am I right? 

Three queens producing brood to be stored into shared side by side 10 framers. I also wonder how you are doing this without any swarms issuing? Six frames do not seem like enough for a queen's laying cycle to me. I figure 8 would be a minimum, but seem to be doing it just fine your way. I've read you posting in the past of running nucs under shared deeps, this looks pretty good. I just figured part of the success is the way and strength they are made up, and the timing of it with flows and time of year.


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## cervus

Ian said:


> Your not understanding what's going on. I'm not holding back the queen. The calendar comes into play, by placing unlimited space up top with a smaller nest to maintain more attention is pushed upwards. Big nests don't always equal big crops


Must be nice having no SHB to contend with up there. Down here, those supers would be ate up with beetles. I'm envious.


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## Ian

Keep the production where you can take it, feed them like a baby after its all done


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## Ian

cervus said:


> Must be nice having no SHB to contend with up there. Down here, those supers would be ate up with beetles. I'm envious.


Ya I have no beetles thank God
But those boxes are full of bees. 
I wouldn't know how to run with beetles. I would assume running the boxes tighter... But up here space is needed to CATCH the crop


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## sakhoney

At work right now and cannot - but 2 weeks ago there were 4 to 5 frames. But our dearth has began. That's why I did not get the nucs built I wanted. But when my main honey flow is on - there is 7/8 frames in 2 deeps and most a medium on top of that. in 30 days they fill 3 mediums while pulling 3 frames of foundation each box and 2 deeps of plastic foundation - whole boxes.


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## Ian

Just so you know, I have 1200 singles going. This method only works with fresh queens.


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## Ian

sakhoney said:


> ut when my main honey flow is on - there is 7/8 frames in 2 deeps .


yup
And I bet not all together. This just keeps that nest together and the surplus uptop . 
WITH FRESH QUEENS

Not going to be making this up in May...


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## sakhoney

Yea - and your season is a lot shorter than ours - I understand


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## Ian

What I'm trying to do is make up a boat load of nucs, with next to no resource. 2 frames brood, queen cell, June...makes a perfect little hive but surplus hits me. So instead of managing singles and wasting space and honey boxes ( a small nest in a single will not push honey up) I push a bunch together to keep the nest small and manage the surplus by sending it up.


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## Ian

5 frames are good, some run 4 frames, but our winters are 5-6 months, do that extra frame will come in handy late March


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## sakhoney

Yea - and you guys have a real winter - down here where I am - not so much - Anyway it seams to be working for ya - that's all that counts no matter what anybody else thinks - good luck with them. And late march - I'm done with spring nucs where you guys are just starting
SAK


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## zhiv9

Ian said:


> Not sure if BeeMaid sells them , probably
> Talk directly to them and they would figure a deal. Mention you were talking to me.


Great, Thanks!


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## zhiv9

Ian said:


> 5 frames are good, some run 4 frames, but our winters are 5-6 months, do that extra frame will come in handy late March


This is what I've noticed. 5 frames is fine depending on snow cover and winter harshness but one or two more is better. So you'll pull the honey when canola is finished and feed? Do you have any sort of fall pollen or nectar flow?


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## Ian

Ya... the clover left in the ditches, alfalfa around here and there. But mostly, we are done mid Aug. I have to be careful when I pull not to mis judge what's coming in.


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## Fusion_power

Not to sidetrack the conversation too much, but the way I plan to manage the square Dadant hives is very similar to the way Ian is running nucs. I plan to set up a 2 queen colony next spring using a divider and 7 Dadant depth frames, then super above them. With young queens and plenty of super space, it should triple the crop I am getting currently.


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## Queen excluder

Ian, is your plan to put those hives in singles next spring and split more into your 6 frame nucs, or just to leave them in these nucs?


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## Ian

Old queens don't nuc very well. It's a fresh girls game


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## Andersonhoney

Hey Ian, just wandering how your canola is? Ours is now just starting to flower, at about 5% . ( south eastern australia )and I'm moving hives onto it next week. Just amazes me that we are at opposite ends of the planet and our crops almost aline.
Anyhow back to the neuc thread. Sorry to interrupt.


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## Vincent

Canola already, AndersonHoney? I have some hives in the Riverina and a couple of weeks ago I didn't see more than a handful of flowers. I need to look again!


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## Andersonhoney

Yeah got call on Wednesday from a farmer at hopetoun. Still too cold this week but it looks a little better for next. Although it's too late now for most of my hives as they will be off to almonds in a bit over a week.
So why don't we have an aussie forum?


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## Ian

Andersonhoney said:


> Just amazes me that we are at opposite ends of the planet and our crops almost aline.
> Anyhow back to the neuc thread. Sorry to interrupt.


That is interesting 
Canola is good , just frustrating we lost quite a few days to rain and drizzle.
Right now we are fighting high moisture honey thanks to humidity.


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## Andersonhoney

I had the opposite on last year's canola crop. 2mm of rain on the day the bees were moved onto the crop and then not a drop of rain for over a month. Finished off with a hot wind storm to turn the last of the crop into potpourri. And of course it poured rain( 33mm in one hour) on the night I chose to move the hives out.
But as they say "if you didn't love it you'd hate it".
Hoping for a better season this year!


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## Ian

"If you didn't love it you'd hate it"

Wow thst is a good quote. Pretty much sums it up lol


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## casino boy

Ian said:


> "If you didn't love it you'd hate it"
> 
> Wow thst is a good quote. Pretty much sums it up lol


When you pull the crop and feed do you add a box of foundation or coumb on top for them to fill for winter stores?
You said some use 4 frame nuc's they winter ok the same way?


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## Ian

Keep in mind I winter in Canada, indoors, confined for 5-6 months


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## Andersonhoney

Ian with your 6 fr neucs stacked up 2 and 3 boxes high and with queen excluder, do you get a chance to look into the brood box? If so what do you find? That is, is it 6 fr of brood or is there pollen frames on the sides? Do you move any brood up into the 2nd box? Or does over 1000 hives and a honey flow make it hard to make those inspections?


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## Stan The Bee Man

sorry, can you tell me how to start a new post? Im new on here ....thanks...I have a question about nucs


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## Ian

Andersonhoney said:


> Ian with your 6 fr neucs stacked up 2 and 3 boxes high and with queen excluder, do you get a chance to look into the brood box? If so what do you find? That is, is it 6 fr of brood or is there pollen frames on the sides? Do you move any brood up into the 2nd box? Or does over 1000 hives and a honey flow make it hard to make those inspections?


You will find exactly what you'd see in the centre 6 frames of a 10 frame single. Lots of brood, pollen around the edges, some honey. Once I get the nucs going, we hustle to get them into place with space uptop. Once the nectar starts flowing those nucs will get honey bound. It's happened to me, swarms. But as long as you give the space to deposit nectar, the upward movement satisfies their need for space. With thoughts towards the fields and not the trees, time of year and young queen those 5 or 6 frames seem to be enough.


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## clyderoad

Stan The Bee Man said:


> sorry, can you tell me how to start a new post? Im new on here ....thanks...I have a question about nucs


go to the main menu bar at the top of this page, click on 'forum' tab on top left. it brings you to a listing of all of the forums. choose the appropriate forum, for instance "beekeeping 101". click on that forum. just below the main menu bar on the left of the page you are brought to is a tab that reads "Post New Thread". click that tab and post your new thread.

The little creamery isn't so little any more, is it?


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## Stan The Bee Man

Ian...i was thinking on trying out a bee yard with just nucs. So you are saying you have the same success with just stacking 5 frame nucs? Just making sure you give them empty frames. Would appreciate your advice. thanks


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## Ian

Back track through the thread, there are a few details you need to satisfy


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## Stan The Bee Man

Ok


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## svtkpr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbYRkdadgVg
At least Cristian will be able to understand what he's saying it's in Romanian. I wish there was a way to get an English translation.


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## Fusion_power

so my Romanian is poor at best, but my daughter in law is Romanian from Galati. He is talking about American Foulbrood when he mentions loca americana and talks a bit about how bad it is for the bees. Part of it is about how to deal with bee diseases.


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## JRG13

I've found if you stack nucs, they manage the brood nest much differently than larger horizontal boxes. the bottom box will be dedicated brood and all surplus nectar gets pushed up and out of it quickly just like Ian's set up. I don't use an excluder to restrict either, they seem to do that themselves just fine.


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## Cristian

Fusion_power said:


> so my Romanian is poor at best, but my daughter in law is Romanian from Galati. He is talking about American Foulbrood when he mentions loca americana and talks a bit about how bad it is for the bees. Part of it is about how to deal with bee diseases.


Yep , you are right !. 

How small can be this world LOL &#55357;&#56837;


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## Cristian

Fusion_power said:


> so my Romanian is poor at best, but my daughter in law is Romanian from Galati. He is talking about American Foulbrood when he mentions loca americana and talks a bit about how bad it is for the bees. Part of it is about how to deal with bee diseases.


Yep , you are right !. 

How small can be this world LOL 😅


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## Cristian

Fusion_power said:


> so my Romanian is poor at best, but my daughter in law is Romanian from Galati. He is talking about American Foulbrood when he mentions loca americana and talks a bit about how bad it is for the bees. Part of it is about how to deal with bee diseases.


Yep , you are right !. 

How small can be this world LOL 😅


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## Andersonhoney

Jrg13 do you use 2 nuec boxes then stay your full size boxes, as per the romainian you tube clip, or one nuec box then full size boxes as per Ian steppler? Or both/either if so explain the difference. 
Thanks Vin.


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## twgun1

Ian said:


>


i seriously want to blow this photo up and hang it on my wall. Love it !


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## zhiv9

Ian said:


> I simply split 2 brood frames and bees per nuc and dropped a queen cell in each.


Are the other 4 frames drawn comb or foundation?


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## Ian

I used 2 brood, 1 honey, 3 frames foundation


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## JRG13

Anderson, I just use 5 frames boxes, keep stacking them if they catch me off guard. The only issues is they can fill a box on a flow in a few days so it's more time management and 5 frame boxes stacked 2 or higher tip very easily during transport or even moderate winds, especially if the weight is at the top. It would make more sense to set up like Ian as it's more stable and time productive or I guess you could stack them side by side for more stability but if you're running a lot of nucs anyways, they will make the honey. I'll take a picture of a swarm that moved into a stack but the hive configuration is a little wonky since I wasn't around and my brother had to move them and I think the initial colony ended up on top of the stack, but basically it's 3 deeps and a medium nuc and I will be transferring over to 10 frame today so I can move it easier tomorrow.


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## svtkpr

Ian is there any reason why the 3 6 frame nuc entrances face opposite directions?


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## Ian

svtkpr said:


> Ian is there any reason why the 3 6 frame nuc entrances face opposite directions?


Reason being, I queen these nucs with cells, the reversed entrances help the queens find their home. I also use coloured entrance reducers. My mating success was 95%. 
Once mates I simply replace queenless spots, lift them out and to the fields and supered


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## Cristian

How fast can a nuc that have been made with a mated queen be supered ? . I mean a nucs that has 1 frame of honey , 4 frames of caped brood and 1 frame of foundation is made on 15 May
( queen is accepted 1 day later ) . Can a nuc like this be supered after a week or so ? .


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## svtkpr

Cristian with 4 frames of brood in a six frame nuc there is no place for the queen to lay until the brood starts to emerge. If you have drawn comb then I would super the nuc to give the foragers a place to store nectar. If you are introducing a caged mated queen it's usually 4 days before she is released and a couple of days before she begins to lay.


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## Cristian

I couldn't super a nuc that is not having a laying queen . In one week from introduction the queen will lay . The issue is to super as early as possible and to not risk that those fresh queens will perish when supered . 
4 frames of brood will cover when emerging another 12 frames so in total 16 frames of bee . On a pallet with three nucs ( 16 x 3 = 48 frames covered with bees ) will mean that they should be supered with 4 , 10F boxes . One week after making , 2 supers added and after another one week the second batch of supers will be put on nucs . 
After that the nucs will be rady for a flow .


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## svtkpr

If the queens only have 6 frames to lay, is there a chance that the bees will abscond?


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## skyscraper

Ian;1456812...[/QUOTE said:


> What's your opinion on honey production if someone wanted to start a package in a 8 frame deep reduced to 6 frames with a following board? Just strictly for honey production. Then sell off the brood frames as a couple of nucs.


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## skyscraper

Ian said:


> ...


Also, can 2 five frame nucs fit under a 10 frame deep? Seems there's a 1\4 inch difference to me.


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## skyscraper

DUP...

I guess I'll use this duplicate post to ask yet another question...would this nuc idea be ideal for new packages compared to a single deep box?


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## casino boy

Ian when you pull the crop do you separt the three nuc's and add a supper on top of each for them fill for winter stores and if so do you use fondation or comb? Trying to figure out your end of year for them.


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## Ian

I also run 2 5 frames under a shared stack of supers. As for packages, hive them late, allow for the broodnest to establish then stack them up. 

I winter indoors. After the crop is pulled we back fill the nest and winter them indoors out of our frigid windy weather


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