# WingLess Queen



## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

Strange Velbert, I've never seen or heard of such thing.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

A few years ago I mentioned how I had a very vigorous queen (a very good layer too). She was heading a very strong colony. This queen was "wingless" but had the stubs of malformed wings. I could not explain how such a queen managed to become mated.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks Guys 

Didn't see the queen after the hive swarmed i just check 2-3 weeks later and seen brood and just put them back to gather and didn't look for the queen.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I've seen a few wingless queens, but never one that was mated. I suspect its caused by a virus though have been told it could be due to chilling (though I doubt it the last time I saw it because it was the middle of summer). I've seen them lay ok, but only drones.

I've much more commonly seen two (or more) queens in a hive laying side by side. In this case it's very easy for one queen to mask the deficiencies of the other. In one case though I had a hive superceed twice and all 3 queens were laying, but couldn't lay more than a spotty pattern between them.

-Tim


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## Tuttle (Jul 4, 2009)

Most likely not the case in this situtation but if your smoker is to hot it will burn the wings off the bees.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

So, are you saying you don't want the flame shooting out the smoker nozzle? I need a new mentor!


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Oldtimer said:


> When bees supersede, they will not kill the old queen straight away, and for a time there will be two queens in the hive. The old one gets picked on a bit and will commonly get her wings chewed off.


Thanks for this explanation. This is exactly what I saw this Spring. Saw two queens last summer and then again in March. By April the original had chewed up wings and was gone within weeks.


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## Tuttle (Jul 4, 2009)

fish_stix said:


> So, are you saying you don't want the flame shooting out the smoker nozzle? I need a new mentor!


You never know, I've seen dumber answers solve problems before.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Found another wingless Queen this time in a mating nuc she was laying a nice pattern but it was all eggs and small larva in the cells so i caged her and came back in about 10 days the brood was sealed worker brood they started EM Q Cells check a few days later they had removed my wax plug and she was out and laying.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

I see what Velbert is describing from time to time too... but usually it is in the thinner races such as Carniolans and usually in hives where she has been laying for a year or so on older comb... 

I know that their wings rub against the cells as they lay and that can tatter them, and I assume that the thinner abdomen of these races going into a cell that is larger than necessary and harder or even semi rough would make the tattering process a bit faster and more pronounced...

Like Oldtimer pointed out, usually during a supersedure, the bees will pick at the old queen but let her continue to lay at least while the new queen gets mated and starts laying... I have seen the old queens missing legs and wings both during this time and still be backing into cells giving it her all...


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

the last check she was laying and they are not even trying to replace her and she also has a crippled middle leg she didn't have any wings at all not even a stub got a pic on photobucket. This is a newly maited queen that just started to lay


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Hmmm... my guess would be that she was one of those lucky girls that had a run in with a predator on her way back on a mating flight and just barely made it into the door alive... I have seen dragonfly tails sticking out of baby nuc entrances, and when I went to pull the out, the bees were balled up on the head end. Lol. Apparently, every now and then a predator will be watching the entrances waiting for a nice fat meal, and a returning queen that has drone parts hanging from her is probably pretty easy prey and fat to boot. Glad you got a pic of her, I never think to pull out my camera on interesting finds like that.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

By the way, I love those nucs! I would like to get a bunch to try out on my deck at home... excellent idea making the reversible super.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks would like to Build about 500 of them going I figure that is all that I can Handle


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Just noticed this thread. We had a laying wingless queen this year. She was an Italian from a package. She was not laying as well as some other packages from the same order so we requeened the hive. But that queen had absolutely no wings or stubs visible to my eyes. I didn't notice the wingless condition for a couple of months after the package install so I assume it happened in the hive.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Velbert, how are those frames spaced between each other? Also, do you use hsc for the frames? Have you ever just let them draw their own comb like mini top bars? I will order some from you when you have time to cut some out. Looks like the website says you are out of stock at the moment... just let me know when you are ready and I will get an order in.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

For the fames I just use the endbars of the 6 1/4 Med frames. Most all of them I use un waxed plasticell I like my combs to be straight so when making divides they will fit any where and the spacing is correct also I have a small extractor I can extract the frames and give the queen more laying room if need to.there is 3/8 spacing on top of the frames so if you add another box you don't smash a lot of bees.I can start any time cutting some out just need to open up the ordering link.


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