# Building 4-way pallets: Treated or painted? More questions



## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Hello all,
I'm building a batch of 4-way pallets, and I'm wondering if it is worth the extra price to go with all treated lumber, or if it's better to use untreated and just paint. What's you thoughts and experience? Also, on the frame stringers on the underside of the pallet: Should these be 1" x 6", 5/4 x 6", or 2" x 6"? Experienced information needed. Might have a few more questions later, if I think of some. Input welcome. Thanks!


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Untreated. Wax dipped. 1x6 works.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Treated will last longer. I would not use treated where bees come into contact with it but I would use it everywhere else...


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Ok, I also got some feedback from a friend who said that treated is too heavy. Thoughts?


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I don't have equipment for wax dipping, or else I would. Is painting ok?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Treated lumber is heavier, but not so much that you will have to buy a bigger forklift... I would use treated anywhere it comes in contact with dirt...


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Yeah, the forklift isn't really what I was worried about. It's the load weight. Each pallet weighs in at around 50 pounds, multiplied by 102 pallets per load, is over 5,000 pounds. A standard flatbed holds about 48,000 lbs. That leaves about 105 lbs per hive after the pallet. Pretty tight.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Go with treated everything. Unless you really love building pallets.


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

I use treated everywhere. I build them in winter and leave them out exposed to the weather until spring. As for the stringers you can use whatever you want but just make sure they are all the same. I usually use 1 X 6 but last year switch to 5/4 because it was cheaper. So my pallet height did change I dadoed slots 1/2 deep before I fastened them


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

I make mine with treated wood except the plywood/sheathing the actual hive sits on. 4-ways with 2x4 and they are plenty strong. I've put 408 doubles on trucks without weight issues unless they are ultra heavy. Only had to pull a couple pallets off to keep within weight limits in the past 10 years.


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

Same as what Chip said. Using ring shank nails (8d or 9d, cant remember) to hold everything together seems to make them indestructible for quite a while, unless they get run over.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Use treated for the 2x4's and especially the 1x6's on the bottom. Try to find 1x6's treated for below grade use (not easy to find). I would also strongly recommend using a treated board for the middle strip on top that the clips attach to. Yes the bees come into contact with that but it is where pallets always rot first. Ideally some type of non wood material the same thickness as the rest of the top rails is ideal here but I have never found the ideal product of the right thickness.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I use treated 2 by 4s for the runners and 5/4 treated decking boards ripped in half for the lower crossmembers. Decking I use used 1/2" concrete form and for the wood strips on top I use tamarac I ripped down to appropriate size. I started recessing the clips into the tamarac as well to keep the bees from migrating from one hive to another thru the little space there.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Yeah, the forklift isn't really what I was worried about. It's the load weight. Each pallet weighs in at around 50 pounds, multiplied by 102 pallets per load, is over 5,000 pounds. A standard flatbed holds about 48,000 lbs. That leaves about 105 lbs per hive after the pallet. Pretty tight.


But it works. I typically use a "ball park" 440 per double pallet and 220 per single pallet as a baseline in calculating loads. It always seems to come our pretty close for us. The treated lumber is really only heavy the first year, after the water is dried out of the preservative there isn't much difference in weight. Just settle on a style and a dimension and stick to it, it makes a big difference in how neat your load ends up and can affect ventilation as well. Make sure you set the top panels back from the end of the 2x4 stringers at least 3/8" for proper top to bottom ventilation in the middle. Its amazing how the smallest of variations will magnify themselves when loading a big truck.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> Make sure you set the top panels back from the end of the 2x4 stringers at least 3/8" for proper top to bottom ventilation in the middle.


You mean the plywood decking that the hives sit on? I am going with these plans. I believe they feature what you are talking about.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Does anyone here use pallets, and telescoping covers? been pondering a bunch of new pallets setup for telescoping.... wondering if the slightly wider spacing is a problem??
As for pallets treated AND painted here.... takes about 5 minutes and 2.00 to paint them......


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

We are building ours all treated. 5/4 x 6 on the bottom. We are building them with screened bottoms so no plywood. Started using them this spring and love them so far. We are not migratory so they will stay in one location unless we loose a yard and have to move.

Johnny


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

westernbeekeeper said:


> You mean the plywood decking that the hives sit on? I am going with these plans. I believe they feature what you are talking about.
> View attachment 7556


For the entrance reducer strip, just make one longer strip centered on the middle stringer rather than 3 pieces per side. Will save you time and keep the entrances farther apart. When you have all the pallet parts cut out before assembly, stack all same-sized pieces up and paint the end grains with a roller...fast and easy.


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## pieter (Apr 1, 2014)

Hi

Sorry of topic but I cannot find an answer anywhere ... I have a question regarding the nails used in standard 4 way wooden pallets. I am fairly new to the pallet business. At this moment, for our 4 way pallets, we use long nails with a nail gun to attached the top and bottom boards to the stringer boards. We then bend the nails after they have been nailed through the stringer board. With the blocks, the nail is of course going directly into the block. Is there another method to do this without having to bend nails? We have tried shorter nails but they were not strong enough and our customers complained saying that the top boards were coming loose. Is there a screw solution, a special nail, or an alternative solution? we are trying to avoid as much wood damage during repair of pallets and the bended nails are hard to remove


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you are currently using smooth sided nails, the next step up is "ring shank" nails similar to these:
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Ha...ls-Collated-Nails-Screws-Staples/N-5yc1vZc282


There are also nails that are sold as "pallet nails" and some of those have a twist in the shank somewhat similar to a screw:
http://www.grainger.com/product/3EY...3EYY2&ef_id=UPILogAAXFVIzHZW:20140401004335:s
(You can move the cursor over the photo at the link to enlarge it and see the twists in the nails)


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## pieter (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks for the quick reply. We are already using "pallet nails". However, I am looking for a better solution to connect the a 2cm board to another 2cm board without having to hit the nail through and then bend it. We have used a 4cm ringed nails but they didn't seem to hold very well


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't build pallets, but I do take them apart at times. Some specialized pallets/frames that I salvage are made largely from two pieces 3/4" thick wood, which is approximately the same as your 4 cm. They are manufactured with 1/2" crown staples instead of nails. And whoever builds then is using a liberal amount of staples. Their method seems to be to just add more fasteners to get better holding power.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

pieter said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. We are already using "pallet nails". However, I am looking for a better solution to connect the a 2cm board to another 2cm board without having to hit the nail through and then bend it. We have used a 4cm ringed nails but they didn't seem to hold very well


We like the triple galvanized screw in either a torx or a square drive, of a length at least twice as long as the board you are attaching (2" is a good length for fastening a 1" board onto a 2"x4"). It makes it easy to disassemble for repair and replacement.


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

I also use screws so I can replace the untreated plywood when it is no longer serviceable. I buy 2 inch deck screws and reuse them too. Nails hold great but are time consuming to remove. I have some pallets that are 15 years old and the treated bottoms (2x4 and 1x4) still hold up well. The last 2 years, I've brushed melted wax on the top of the plywood and drilled a couple of holes in each of the quads that hold each of the 4 hives.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Just my opinion but building 4-way pallets are not as easy as a single bottom board. You might want to pour your heart and soul into it and do it right right the first time so you have something thats going to last 20-30 years or better yet, a life time. If you have the skills to build your own pallet, even better so you can pay attention to detail.

some things to consider is drilling 2 holes in the back corners of each board to allow water to drian. setting your pallets on regular pallets will help prevent rot as well.


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