# Queen Banking



## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

What is the preferred method of banking Queens? I know that it can be done above a queen excluder or a queen banking frame. Does either have an advantage over the other? What other methods are being used? 
How are you setting up the colonies and how long are you Banking queens?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

During queen rearing season I usually have one or more banks. I setup a queenless hive and catch all the queens on the same day and put them in the back together. The bank eventually raises it's own queen but that doesn't seem to hurt anything. I don't use an excluder. When I find the queen they raised laying, I catch her and ship her off to someone. I don't ever add queens to a bank until I've used all the banked queens. When I tried that they killed the old queens and kept the new queens. So I don't do it. If I have a bunch more queens to catch I set up a new queen bank. I use a frame that holds the JZBZ racks and use the JZBZ cages. I had a lot of trouble this year with wax moths getting in with the queens and building webs in the queen cage. I had to break through the webs and recage the queens periodically. The wax moth worm would get into the cage and the queen would not attack it and it would grow there. I'm not sure what it was living on. This happened multiple times. It's tempting to put one or two attendants in there as I think they would kill the wax moth larvae...


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## ApricotApiaries (Sep 21, 2014)

How many queens are you trying to bank and how long?
If its just a couple of queens I prefer to bank them individually in 3-5 frame nucs. If more, and longer, (or if I need the nucs to mate more cells) Ill build a bank with several frames of brood, honey, pollen, and use a bank frame that holds cages. Usually in a single. 
I'v also kept battery boxes for several days but its more of a chore. Let the bees fly at least once a day, keep the sponge moist, keep the candy fresh...


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

ApricotApiaries said:


> How many queens are you trying to bank and how long?
> If its just a couple of queens I prefer to bank them individually in 3-5 frame nucs. If more, and longer, (or if I need the nucs to mate more cells) Ill build a bank with several frames of brood, honey, pollen, and use a bank frame that holds cages. Usually in a single.
> I'v also kept battery boxes for several days but its more of a chore. Let the bees fly at least once a day, keep the sponge moist, keep the candy fresh...


I’m not planning on banking for extended periods as I have heard that it can effect performance. Last year I had to bank about 10 for two weeks over an excluder and it worked well. I sometimes have to hold queens for people and if it goes past a few days, I would like to be able to bank them as opposed to keeping them in my basement. I have not done it with battery boxes but have them just in case. I’m thinking about a frame to hold the JZ-BZ cages. Thank you for the information.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> I’m not planning on banking for extended periods as I have heard that it can effect performance. Last year I had to bank about 10 for two weeks over an excluder and it worked well. I sometimes have to hold queens for people and if it goes past a few days, I would like to be able to bank them as opposed to keeping them in my basement. I have not done it with battery boxes but have them just in case. I’m thinking about a frame to hold the JZ-BZ cages. Thank you for the information.


I love the JZ BZ cages .. for shipping.

Use california minis for banking. I was banking virgins for insemination this year.

With the JZBZ cages the other bees will bit off the tarsal pads on the feet. Those pads help spread pheromones.

With the roller cages, they just filled each hole with wax. Sealed them shut.

With the california cage they did neither.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

jcase said:


> I love the JZ BZ cages .. for shipping.
> 
> Use california minis for banking. I was banking virgins for insemination this year.
> 
> ...


interesting info, thanks for posting.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> interesting info, thanks for posting.


to add on to that, I learned about the JZBZ issue while visiting sue cobey, she put queens from both JZBZ cages and california cages under the microscope to show ups their tarsal pads.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

jcase said:


> to add on to that, I learned about the JZBZ issue while visiting sue cobey, she put queens from both JZBZ cages and california cages under the microscope to show ups their tarsal pads.


Thats funny, the JZBZ cages have a place for the queens to hide,never seen that happen in any of the queens that I have banked. But who knows.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Flyer Jim said:


> Thats funny, the JZBZ cages have a place for the queens to hide,never seen that happen in any of the queens that I have banked. But who knows.


Have you put them under a scope?

I saw it many times when I had them under for insemination. I'm not sure how long they had been banked (they were not my queens), but everyone pulled out of a JZBZ cage had damaged or missing tarsal pads.

I have a bunch of JZBZ cages, I like them, I use them for introduction and shipping. Just not for banking.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

jcase said:


> I love the JZ BZ cages .. for shipping.
> 
> Use california minis for banking. I was banking virgins for insemination this year.
> 
> ...


Exactly my experience as well.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

AstroBee said:


> Exactly my experience as well.


I was shocked when I started looking at them. I dont produce a lot of queens, probably less than 100 this year. I'm just not going to bank any of them because of this.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

jcase said:


> I was shocked when I started looking at them. I dont produce a lot of queens, probably less than 100 this year. I'm just not going to bank any of them because of this.


I have spoken with my friend/ mentor about this before. He seems to be of the opinion that Banking in JZ-BZ cages is best because of the ribs on the sides of the cages as well as the spot for the queen to hide. He was very good friends with Jim Payson and as I understand it, had something to do with the development of some of their products.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> I have spoken with my friend/ mentor about this before. He seems to be of the opinion that Banking in JZ-BZ cages is best because of the ribs on the sides of the cages as well as the spot for the queen to hide. He was very good friends with Jim Payson and as I understand it, had something to do with the development of some of their products.


I've seen it with my eyes.

Test it out, bank some in JZBZ, then put them under a scope. Their tarsal pads will be damaged or completely gone. When they are intact, they REALLY stand out as a small whiteish ball.

I'm not talking down on JZBZ, I really like them a lot, I've got probably 200 of them. I just won't be using them for anything but shipping, and perhaps releasing some queens that are not too important to me.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

jcase said:


> I've seen it with my eyes.
> 
> Test it out, bank some in JZBZ, then put them under a scope. Their tarsal pads will be damaged or completely gone. When they are intact, they REALLY stand out as a small whiteish ball.
> 
> I'm not talking down on JZBZ, I really like them a lot, I've got probably 200 of them. I just won't be using them for anything but shipping, and perhaps releasing some queens that are not too important to me.


I believe you. I will test a few and look under a microscope. The queen Banking Frames that I made are setup so that only the candy end is exposed on the JZ-BZ cages with very little of the actual cage being exposed. I wonder if that would be okay? I will definitely test a few a report back. I have to place an order for some California Minis. Any suggestions for a place to order a couple hundred of them?


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> I believe you. I will test a few and look under a microscope. The queen Banking Frames that I made are setup so that only the candy end is exposed on the JZ-BZ cages with very little of the actual cage being exposed. I wonder if that would be okay? I will definitely test a few a report back. I have to place an order for some California Minis. Any suggestions for a place to order a couple hundred of them?


If I remember, I'll run a comparative test this spring as well, and post results.

I can't even remember where I got my box of minis from, mannlake perhaps.


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

Jcase
A question, the JZBZ cages come in two versions, I have heard the one with the larger holes allows the attendants to get to the queen"s feet. The smaller hole design helps prevent that. In what you saw was it one or the other or both?


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

John Davis said:


> Jcase
> A question, the JZBZ cages come in two versions, I have heard the one with the larger holes allows the attendants to get to the queen"s feet. The smaller hole design helps prevent that. In what you saw was it one or the other or both?


Couldn't tell you, I didnt know they came in two styles until end of last year. So I wasn't paying attention.

I have two styles here, one that came with a queen I bought, and the bag I bought last oct. The first may be a knock off, the ones I bought I'm positive is JZBZ, both have much larger holes that the minis.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Are you banking virgins or mated queens? There are at least 2 styles of JZBZ cages and 3 colors.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Flyer Jim said:


> Are you banking virgins or mated queens? There are at least 2 styles of JZBZ cages and 3 colors.


The queens in question didn't belong to me, was just working on them. Some were virgins, and i believe some were mated.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

Flyer Jim said:


> Are you banking virgins or mated queens? There are at least 2 styles of JZBZ cages and 3 colors.


I have only seen 2 different styles. Do you have any pictures for comparison?


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