# Semis vs truck



## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I'm wondering if its as economical or better (expense per hive) to take a semi load of 4-ways or a F250 deisel with a 20-30ft gooseneck flatbed full of 4-ways. Thoughts? For going to almonds, about 1150 miles for me.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Legally without a CDL you will only be able to haul 100 doubledeep hives on gooseneck.


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

Dependes on the number of hives you are sending, semi holds 400 to 500 hives , goose neck about 128


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

Any trailer over 10,000# requires a class A no matter what you pull it with, even a pickup.


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

In CA "a farmer or employee may also drive any combination of vehicles up to 26,000 gcwr with a class c if used exclusively in ag and not for hire"... DMV


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is a link to support _Davidsbees _statement:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt2.htm

However, as the original poster is in Wyoming, wishing to go to California, multiple other states need to be crossed before one gets to CA.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here is a link to support _Davidsbees _statement:
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt2.htm
> 
> However, as the original poster is in Wyoming, wishing to go to California, multiple other states need to be crossed before one gets to CA.


Interesting link. A vehicle weighing as little as 4,000 lbs. can legally tow a travel trailer weighing 9,000 lbs. ........if not for hire. Yikes!! Interestingly enough I just had a conversation with a very knowledgable DOT rep yesterday about the oft discussed "Apiarian exception" 391.2. He says it excludes those "engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees" only from the requirements of 391 which are primarily the driver age and health card requirement and not from vehicle inspections or log book requirements. A separate issue is that a CDL is not required by the DOT if driving a vehicle with a gvw of 26,000 or under and pulling a trailer with a gvw of 10,000 or under. I'm not sure if some individual state laws might trump this though.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Just off the top of my head I woudl say the Semi is more economical if you have a full load. Otherwise you would see fleets of Fords pulling goosenecks on the freeways.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Daniel Y said:


> Just off the top of my head I woudl say the Semi is more economical if you have a full load. Otherwise you would see fleets of Fords pulling goosenecks on the freeways.


No question about it. Nothing pulls harder than a netted load of bees but they still get 5 to 6 mpg while hauling up to 48,000 net. A heavy duty pickup pulling a large gooseneck with less than half the carry capacity is probably going to top out around 9mpg.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

May also search under "MAP21"


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## dback (Jan 8, 2012)

After a couple of times of literally trying to kill myself from too many hours on the road.........nothing but semis for me. In the old days there were always smaller bee trucks broke down with a load of bees along the roads.......there's a reason that 90% of the bees coming to almonds are delivered by semi.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So regardless of DOT regs...

I have hauled bees with F250, F450 both on a 20' Gooseneck trailer. You cannot max out carrying room on a 20' goosneck trailer and expect to be able to safely pull it down the road with an F250 less you have large tires on it. Large meaning NOT 16" tires. Plus you have to really beef up brakes and suspension in the rear and you better have the F250s with the full floating axle. F350 duallies and larger trucks are no problem.

If you dont mind the road time hauling your own bees is rewarding all in itself and generally is a bit cheaper than a semi.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Cheaper than a semi? Let's see. I can get 102 pallets on a semi and 20 pallets on my truck. It's one thousand miles from here to where I go in SC. Taking what I want south would take 5 trips. Each trip w/ my truck costs $1,000.00, plus food and lodging. Two days to get down and unload. A day or two to mess w/ the hives and two days to get home. There's a week gone by. 

The semi costs me $3,000.00. I can travel w/ the semi, hauling a load on my truck and pulling the Bobcat and then spend a cpl days working the bees and head home. Hauling them all myself is not what I would call fun. Sure would not do that across the country to almonds.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Agreed Mark. If you have only a single "gooseneck load" it works but any scenario that has you "deadheading" very far just dosent work with $4.00 fuel unless you are willing to try to do backhauls and that's another story entirely. It's much more than just fuel costs, though. Depreciation on a vehicle can be .20+ cents per mile and a drivers time is worth at least that much more just to name a couple of the major expenses. Even with good equipment things can break down. I prefer to load a semi to the max and let them worry about getting to the destination.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I tried to figure out what it costs me per mile to run my own truck and trailer one time. I have a 2005 F-450 Superduty Diesel w/ a 14'3" bed. It costs me around $1.90 per mile. I think that was back when fuel was pushing up towards $5.00/gallon. So maybe it's not quite that much now. Compared to $2.90 or $3.05 for a truck that can handle 5 times the load. No comparison.

I don't have all of my maintenance receipts and repair receipts, but I do have all of my fuel records. I could, w/ some work, figure out what fuel has cost me over the last 8 years. It hasn't been cheap, that's for sure.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Compared to $2.90 or $3.05 for a truck that can handle 5 times the load. No comparison.


On your truck sure. My gooseneck trailer holds 144 DD colonies with barely enough room to walk on the back. So for the 400ish I can send on a semi it comes out to 3 trips with enough room to run my extra gear down. Being a frugal person that I am, I pack my food with me from the house for the entire trip down and back and might spend an extra 20 bucks on crap food for whole trip. It costs me roughly $700.00 per round trip in fuel and I have been sleeping in cab of truck (which I have been considering hotels these days for comfort). So my 3 trips cost me roughly $2200.00 providing all goes smooth. That gets all my bees and NUCs or extra equipment for $1100 less than it would to hire. All milage on truck is a tax right off. Im not sure why someone wouldn't haul their own stuff if they did beekeeping fulltime less they have 10 semi loads or more.

Now granted I am frugal to the point I have set places to fuel at that I know are the cheapest. I talked with a buddy of mine (professional truck driver) not so long ago and he estimates about $1.70 per mile goes into his truck between all maintenance, fuel and taxes. Now many of us dont worry about the tax part as we dont have to deal with IFTA. His truck is averaging (550HP) about 5 MPG.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You definitely have a more fuel efficient truck than I do. It costs me around $500.00 to go 1,000 miles. Which, yes, is deductible. As is sleeping in a Motel. Sleeping in my truck, especially w/out my C-PAP machine, is something I gave up long ago. I hate sleeping on those seatbelt parts and halfway sitting up. Maybe you have a bench seat.

I have driven all the way through w/out sleeping overnight. But was almost useless the next day and felt terrible. So gave that up to. I'm not racing anybody. 

We all have to do what suits us.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

BMAC, Power to you but I would like to look at your choice from a different angle. I assume you are hauling from NY and require 3 days one way. 3 days back for a total of 18 days to save $1100. I have made better money as a janitor. And that was years ago. You woudl have to more than double that to make it profitable for me given I also work a full time job that pays that much better.

Have you looked into finding loads to haul back? if so what has been your experience with that? If you are going to be on the road you might as well be getting paid for it.

I am also curious if your return trips afford you the ability to keep a better eye on your colonies? I am only 2 hours or less from the almonds. If I where to send my bees there. I would be a royal pain in the butt cause I would be their every weekend. I would not place my hives without having unlimited access to inspect them.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I run 990 miles one way. 990 miles can be done in a day and a half. The extra trips does afford an opportunity to better watch over my bees. As far as back hauling, I have not done it, but I am not opposed to it. I have zero experience with back hauling for other folks.

It truly is all in perspective and personal preference. 
Whats time if you are building a stronger better business for the future?
If we are absolutely worried about making as much money as possible, then why the heck are we keeping bees?
So maybe when I build up to 800 colonies I will buy a semi and still haul my bees myself. 

Would it be a waste of money and time for me to do that?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have never tried to set up any back haul work. I'm not licensed to haul for hire. I have been along when a friend of mine hauled pine bark mulch north and another trip south he hauled stone from NY to SC. He has a 10 wheeler Freightliner. He doesn't do that anymore.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

BMAC said:


> I run 990 miles one way. 990 miles can be done in a day and a half. The extra trips does afford an opportunity to better watch over my bees. As far as back hauling, I have not done it, but I am not opposed to it. I have zero experience with back hauling for other folks.
> 
> It truly is all in perspective and personal preference.
> Whats time if you are building a stronger better business for the future?
> ...


Well my money explainable is a bit simplistic for my actual situation. Your time is less than I had in mind though. I have many other skills and many other ways to generate income. So I always shave to consider. will I save more spending my time driving or could I make more money than it costs me to have someone else do it? I have more than once made $5000 or more in a two week period. But that also requires that i manage to get the stars to aline. So would my time be better spent aligning stars or driving under them. I admit I do not always take the path of greatest profits. Actually far from it.

Back hauling may be as simple as an add on craigs list in the location you are returning from saying you will haul whatever will fit back with you. And payment could be nothing more than they pay for the gas. Worst case you get no response. run such an add here in August September and early October and you will probably have your e-mail locked up with replies. We have people traveling here for Hot August Nights, Balloon races, Air races, Burning Man, The Rib cook off and Street Vibrations. and all of them have massive amounts of stuff to be hauled away to somewhere.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

DanielY,
I don't think there should be anything you would need to do to hives in almonds, so you wouldn't need access to them. I don't know if almond growers feel the same as apple growers, but apple growers I pollinate for don't want to lose one day of bees working the bloom because someone was working their bees.

I deadhead back home from SC. Unless a backhaul job was close to my route it wouldn't be worth it to me. I can't imagine a job paying well enough to compensate for the bother.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

If you are hauling for hire it opens you to lots more trucking regulations. Most just lie and say that what they are hauling is theirs but eventually it's going to catch up with you. We go a little over 900 miles. It's a 15 to 16 hour trip. In a truck that needs split into 2 days to be legal. However we rarely drive a truck back empty. I spent $2500 on an older fuel efficient car for a commuting vehicle. Rides 4 comfortably, no stopping at scales no logbooks. Leave at 5 AM, home by 8. $100 in gas.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> DanielY,
> I don't think there should be anything you would need to do to hives in almonds, so you wouldn't need access to them. I don't know if almond growers feel the same as apple growers, but apple growers I pollinate for don't want to lose one day of bees working the bloom because someone was working their bees.
> 
> I deadhead back home from SC. Unless a backhaul job was close to my route it wouldn't be worth it to me. I can't imagine a job paying well enough to compensate for the bother.


Then they really would not like me because any of my hives that where in trouble would be removed and brought back. I am not keeping orchards they are. I'm not going to loose an entire hive just so an empty box can set in their orchard. I can also leave home at 5 and be back home at 9. and both of those are am. My only problem with the trip is that it would be in January and February and I would have to cross the Sierras to get there. Last weekend it was only raining and we had to go to Walnut Creek. We saw 4 very bad accidents along the way. All in the one and a half hour stretch through the mountains.

I do understand the side track to get a load.

Is 800 hives for a full Semi load an accurate number? I personally have a trucker, with his own truck right up the street. I have been thinking of talking to him about hauling a load if I could get one together. Keep in mind in this area the big boy in bees has 300 hives. but at certain times of the year, like now. California keepers are moving their hives to Nevada. We get a late flow of sagebrush and even have rabbit brush that does not bloom until after first frost.

Also does anyone know of a map of California that shows where the Almond groves are? I want to plan a trip this year to see them for myself.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Why would you take hives to do pollination which were not up to grade and in need of attention while in the orchard or grove? If they aren't up to grade before you go to almonds you won't get paid top dollar and you will waste time and money going to doctor them up.

800? No, Daniel, 408 is about as many dbls as one can get on a semi w/ a flatbed trailer. Story and a halfs you can get another layer on the load, maybe. But you run the risk of being over weight. A dropdeck trailer can carry a different number, but I don't use them so I don't know what that number is.


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

High flat we can put 72 6 way double deeps on, steps can get 84 depending on weight. I haul bees for a living year round. Hands down if you have a full load send them on the semi. 
And if you read the regs in an earlier post you will see at the bottom of the Class A section that you are only exempt when within 150 miles of your farm. So as soon as you get 150 miles out you are no longer legal with out a class A. What I didn't know was that there is a different weight for a goose neck keeping in mind that link is for travel with in Ca not interstate.

Jason
20 years of doing pollination from south Fl to northern Maine to Ca and counting.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

72 6ways? Only 12 rows? I guess thats 44 inches for each row? More or less? So w/ 6 ways that would be 432 dbls, right?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Mark, are those 8 or 10 frame doubles?

So far just doing what I am doing has shown my hives are worth around $1275 each to me. Each year. So $200 for pollination is not nearly enough for me to risk loosing one. I loose less than 10% of those colonies and I will loose money.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

10 framers.

Well, maybe we should leave this Thread to those w/ real intentions to move bees to pollination, semi loads worth.


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> 72 6ways? Only 12 rows? I guess thats 44 inches for each row? More or less? So w/ 6 ways that would be 432 dbls, right?


Yes it is. Most of the time we try for steps and send 84 into pollination and 72 coming out if we are lucky. So it is 12 semis out 14 or 15 back. 
Oh and that is 72 on a 48 foot 2 inches over front and back on a 53 can get 78 pallets on with extra row.


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