# Farmers Markets



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't do Farmers Markets, I wholesale by direct store delivery. The few times, two actually, that I have spent the day selling honey, I had both, what I would call a good day and a not so good day. The not so good day was really a three day weekend at a Bluegrass Music Festival, so I got to listen to and see some really good performances. I can't say that the good day netted me much profit.

So, my question is, even if you are selling honey at a really high price, are you being profitable? I have friends who spend two days a week at a market selling nothing but honey. I often see them standing alone when I drive by w/ my van on my way to a store.

It seems to me, that if one is trying to make a living selling honey, that Farmers Markets would be a distraction from more profitible beekeeping. I can see that if you don't ower anyone anything and don't live off of your bees, that you would have plenty of time to spend taking in a small amount of money compared to what you could make doing something else. So, there must be reasons other than profit for why so many people do sell honey at Farmers Markets.

Today I drove 277 miles delivering honey and took in $15.18/mile in 10 hours. I'd love a day like that every three week. But I don't get them. Not as often as I'd like.

Comments?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

sqkcrk,

What kind of stores do you wholesale to? I assume you are getting a better price than if you sold to a packer. Just curious. John


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Healthfood Stores, Food Co-ops, Grocery Stores, Delis, Restaurants and Bakeries, Convenience Stores, Farm and Cheese Co-op Stores, BBQ/Seafood Shack, Diners, Orchards w/ Farm Stands, anywhere that will buy a case or two of honey. Some more worthwhile than others. But those are in between the worthwhile ones and don't rate a visit each trip around.

The Locovore Movement is alive and well in The Adirondack North Country.

I assume so also. I try to get twice what I am hearing is the barrels price. Not that that is what I base my price on alone.


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## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

I have a good beek friend who sells all his honey to a local/healthfood type store. He only runs about 35 hives. I was over to his place the other day and he said how he and his wife spent saterday afternoon at the store he sells his honey too. He sold 500 dollars of honey in that afternoon. This isnt the way he makes his living. He is in his late 70's/early 80's and its just a hobby buisness for him.


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## jjt42 (Aug 24, 2010)

I don't have any experience selling honey at farmer's markets- just vegetables (I'm a vegetable farmer). 

I completely agree with your assesment of folks who sell their product at farmer's markets- there must be another reason that they do it. I chose a few years ago to quit the market scene and sell wholesale. For one, I did the math- sure I take a lower price dealing with a distributor, but I don't have the costs of market fees, sales tax (which you don't pay when selling wholesale), and most importantly- my time and energy (or even worse- paying an employee to go to the market). Secondly, I can sell much more of my product through a wholesaler then I can at the various farmer's markets around where I live. I think that unless you live within driving distance of a major urban market (like DC's Dupont Circle market), markets are just so hit or miss. You have good days when all of the stars align and there are lots of people out with money to spend, and you have bad days when it's raining or cold and you might only see a few cutomers all morning! With honey at least it's a product that you can take back with you and try again next week. With produce, if there is a bad market, I lose an entire weeks worth of perishable vegetables. So basically, I've decided that the retail mark-up I get at farmer's markets isn't worth the risk- plus the time and energy I save from not spending my weekends at market I can devote to growing more vegetables on the farm for wholesale (thus negating the higher mark-up income from the market). 

So to get back to the question you posed- why do people go to farmer's markets. In my experience, most of the farmers that I know to go to markets I think go partly because they just like going. It's their "social outlet" for the week, and they enjoy the interaction with apprecitiative customers. And I can completely understand that. And some of them have developed a loyal fan base of customers, and I think do quite well at the markets. Personally, I would rather spend all of that time either on the farm, or spending some free time with my family. Maybe I'm just getting grumpier as I get older!

That's my experience anyway- I'm sure others have completely different experiences with farmer's markets.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Who sells the most at Farmers Mkts, the gal or guy who looks like they just stepped out of the field or the person who took the time to take a shower, put on clean clothes and got their hair cut?

I understand that sales persons are taught to dress one level up from their customers. That's why, so often, you will see car salespersons at least wearing a tie or a nice businesslike dress. So, do you suppose that someone selling at a mkt would get more business dressed down or dressed up?


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

at least in my case, I go to markets to buy what I am looking for, not to see how someone is dressed.

Unless their dress is what I consider an extreme, I really don't care. I am more concerned with how they present the item I am looking at. Do they communicate clearly and handle transactions correctly.

people in these modern times are entirely too focused on frills and outside appearances when all the biggest skunks who will lie to you are wearing the prettiest clothes and the biggest smiles.

yes, the guy or gal who is in blue jeans and t shirt or biballs could be out to rook you too, I pay attention to what they do in terms of presenting product and handling business, the money end. that's what's important to me.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Here in Mo. you have to process your honey in an approved honey house ($20,000 to build) to sell my honey wholesale to dealers, or i can sell retail from my home or farmers markets by putting a label stating not processed in an approved kitchen but very clean. Every state have similar or different laws. With only 60 hives the cost of a $20.000 honey house over the cost of a $7.00 setup fee at the farmers market is a better deal for me.:thumbsup: Jack


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Okay, but are you making money? Is it more profitable than putting it in a barrel and selling it to a packer? Or less so? Considering what your time is worth and what else you could be doing to earn money. Or is that a consideration?


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't join farmers markets around here myself. I have found it less expensive to have a seasonal vendors license and set up my own open air stand on a lot of another business who lets me have access to the space.

because of this arrangement and the ability to set up whenever I decide to, be it once, twice, 6 times a week if I want, I find it a very profitable situation.

people are increasingly looking to open air markets to find fresh, local produce and products as the news is ever full of recalls and health issues in the mass marketed world.

I think people also like to interact with producers and growers. To talk firsthand to the people who grew and made the products. it's a bit more personal exchange than they might get at a big chain supermarket.

so for me, it's not just about how much money I can make out of it, though it's a big one, it's also about interacting with people and sharing my enthusiasm with others for bees and local production of items.

there is a lot to be gained in that as well.

Big Bear


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

bigbearomaha said:


> there is a lot to be gained in that as well. Big Bear


Good for the soul sorta stuff, eh BB?


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I think so, plus, it gives me more direct feedback from the people who are buying as to what they are looking for. expectations they have, things they might like to see in the future, etc...

it has led to an improved product or even new products on more than one occasion because I talked with them.

Big Bear


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Sqkcrk,, I'm retired(72 yrs. old) truck farm 5 acres and have 60 bee hives, 20 cows and 1 bull. This keeps my wife and i busy and healthy, also helps pay the taxes and insurance on the farm. Like BB i like to talk bees and gardening to people. Fair Grove is a small town (less than two thousand people) and we know most of them and we get to meet new comers. The money helps and we get to visit and see people we haven't seen in a while. Never was one to set around doing nothing.:no: Jack


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Mark:

Very early on I understood that marketing honey would be a very costly proposition. I live in an area where real estate is very expensive. So putting up my own store was prohibitive. I spent my efforts beekeeping instead of peddling honey. I tried selling honey to stores like you did,but developping a milk run like you have takes time. So I decided to run more hives. I just didn't think it was worth the effort to sell cases of honey. It's the kind of thing that takes a lot of time and you probably need 10 years or so to get a fairly large customer base. We are fortunate to have pollination in the area so that's pretty good revenue. Spring comes early relative to the canadian prairies so that means bee sales for me. We are not in a very good honey producing area but we have a fairly large population so I get a premium for local honey relative to the "world market". I sell all my local honey to small beekeeper packers who don't produce enough for their needs.

Jean-Marc


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

brooksbeefarm said:


> Here in Mo. you have to process your honey in an approved honey house ($20,000 to build) to sell my honey wholesale to dealers,<snip by mod> Jack


Missouri has a "jelly law" that exempts honey from being processed in a food-approved, inspected kitchen.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I got started with Farmer's Markets because I didn't have enough product to consistently supply the wholesale trade year round. The entry was easy and I enjoyed the face-to-face experiences. I also got to explain my products, and I offer varietal honeys, free samples, and an education!

As I expanded, I added the wholesale trade which gave me year-round cash flow.

I'm at a point where selling at a Farmer's Market conflicts with the time I need to spend with my bees. However, I've met a lot of people such that the Farmer's Markets has opened many, many doors. It's a trade-off.

At the markets, my best market brings in around $400 gross for the day, for about 4 hours. But there is only so much time in a day and when the weather is decent, I really want to be with my bees.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I can see where farmers markets would be a good place to sell your product at least initially, being able to explain your product, give free samples, pass out business cards, all these things get you known and then word of mouth kicks in. For those who don't produce enough to get year round contracts, farmers markets are valuable places to get your product sold. John


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Farmers markets are a lot of work in the prep of them and then spending the day selling to the public. However, if you have a good marketing plan and good products selling at what the market will bare you can make a good amount of money. Chef and myself have done well in this area and I credit Chef with passing on some of his strategies that have made my own markets more successful. Is it a lot of work and long hours? You bet. But as with any self employed business, getting started and being successful is all about the time you want to put into it. Also, do several markets as they all do differently. If one is not working drop it and move to the next. Try different things depending on the market type, we adjust our layout depending on where we are selling. 

Some quick hints on markets:

*Know your customer base*. For me it's "raw, unheated, unfiltered" honey. They are willing to pay a premium for it. 

*Samples* - once someone tastes our honey, even if they haven't planned on buying it they usually do because it is so much better then anything they have ever tasted from the supermarket. 

*Display/Labels* - Don't under estimate your label and stand set up. Make it look nice, clean and neat. Dirty or torn table cloth and they will think the same of your honey. Make a nice label...make it country if you can...people like country when they buy ag products. Think about your jars. A nice jar will sell your honey and it may be worth the extra ten cents or so for a nicer jar. Start out with different types and find which sells the best then go with that. You will be amazed at how much this can make a difference. 

Hope that helps.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

here in my area, our county considers raw honey as "whole produce" which requires no commercial kitchen permit or anything. Only raw though. If it's heated, bam, here comes johnny law wanting your money.

Big Bear


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Grant, not to be argumentative, but just last week a member of the Greene,Co. Health Dept. jumped me for not having a sign or label stating that my honey was not processed in an approved kitchen. They inspected our basement kitchen and it would have passed if i had a triple stainless steel sink. (mine was a double) That was last year when i was thinking about building a honey house. That inspector said if it was him he would keep processing it in the basement and display the sign or labels. (i foregot my sign last week) If i put in a triple sink, i would have to tear out some of the kitchen cabnets and it just wouldn't look right (my wife said) Jack


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

Triple sink...I suspect that if a health department inspector ever looked inside of a hive they would probably pass out and possibly die of a heart attach right then and there. Dirty looking, unwashed frames and bugs everywhere.

Here they want $250 a weekend for the permit to allow tasting at a farmers market. You get to fill out a form explaining how you plan on keeping the food product at the proper temperature....


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## collins.bee.feeder (Jun 17, 2010)

The whole point of a Famers Market, well to most people is buying locally grown produce and yes Honey! There are many other reasons for people going to farmers markets both as a buyer and a seller:

1. As I mentioned already buying locally grown produce and Honey for health reasons and personal living choices. 
2. Cutting down on the carbon footprint with community farms and markets (example - by NOT driving hundreds of miles).
3. Education- the opportunity to educate non-beekeepers and children about the importance of Honey Bees and what they offer.
4. Some do Beekeeping as a hobby, and if all they do is break even than so bee it.
5. Being around other people that enjoy the same things and not around Negative folks is well.... "Priceless!" as the commercials say.

Matt
http://www.collinsbeefeeder.com


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

But, as I tryed to ask, is it profitable? Apparently for some it is, monetarely and for others it is in nonmonetery ways. But, the guys I see doing it either don't need to or need to but don't really get the profitable prices.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> But, as I tryed to ask, is it profitable?


Always. I'm surely not going to sell at a loss. Is it worthwhile....now that's the question.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

Mark, you ask "is it profitable?" but Iget the feeling you're more wondering if it's "profitable enough" as in, to earn a living from.

I personally know several folks who do make their living from selling at farmers markets, at leas t a good portion of it. I know others who make substantially less in terms of total income, but will at least break even over the costs of their table fee, etc...

Like I said earlier, I have found it more profitable to pay my own vendor fees to set my own market up when and how frequently I choose. The costs are then leveraged to my advantage vs the time I have any given week to set it up and run it.

Paying the booth fees at a farmers market, at least in my area, is more cost prohibitive because the people who operate the market itself are trying to make money of the table fees.

Big Bear


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Yes i make a profit, but i don't try to make it my main income, it's more of a supplementary income. Once you get your equipment and bees, and learn how to manage and keep them alive you can do pretty good. If i was younger i would expand and do some pollenation rentals, but at my age, sixty bee hives, cattle, 5 acres of truck farm and Farmers Market is more than enough.:doh: Jack


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I just came from the Farmer's Market in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, and I've been thinking about this thread. One reason I attend the market is to sell honey and sell it profitably. I also wholesale through some stores. I've got about nine hundred dollars of orders to deliver today.

So one thing I got thinking about is how much additional money I make at the farmer's market, over my wholesale prices, that basically pays my time to operate my booth.

Moneywise, I'm not so sure spending the time at the market pays me that well. I doubt I could afford to pay someone to sit at my booth and energetically sell my honey. I doubt they could share that rapport with the customer that puts a face/name with a product. After all, I'm not just marketing a sweetner, I'm marketing better health and I'm marketing ME! 

And I like being there. I've come to accept the fact that a BAD day at the market is better than a GOOD day at the office.

As I'm loading my truck to deliver today, I'm thinking about the idle time I have as I drive the truck. I'm thinking about the gas and fuel. I'm also thinking about how this store will sell several cases of my product and I don't have to be there...that's a plus.

So I got thinking about why I attend Farmer's Markets and what would I lose if I quit attending. What would the market lose?

I attend the market because I like hanging out with other vendors who have the same *passion* and *vision* for bringing local produce to the market. I like talking to customers, even though I repeatedly answer the same questions about getting stung, are my bees dying, etc., etc., etc. It's just fun. I enjoy it. 

And, even though my presence may not be financially justified against a wholesale distributorship, I move a lot of honey at the Farmer's Market. I have a lot of repeat customers with whom I've developed a relationship. I've helped some beginners get started and when they've tried to sell their honey, the number one question they get is, "Do you know Grant Gillard?" This is more than dollars and cents.

I also have to realize that the Farmer's Markets and my presence there has opened a lot of other doors. When I first approached the local health food store (which has turned into a very lucrative account), the manager looked at my name and said, "Oh, so you're the honey guy. We've been wanting to put your product on our shelves."

Yeah, there are trade offs to both situations. I think it takes a very special person with an approachable personality to deal with the public and physically market a retail product. Farmer's Markets take time to set up and tear down. There are some days I wonder if it would not be easier to simply scale back and sell all my honey in buckets and drums.

But on the days that I have a conflicting appointment or if I have to go on vacation (yeah, my wife has to make me go on vacations)...I miss my weekly market "fix." The market is like an oasis for me. I guess if I didn't like it, I would find another way to market my honey.

All the best,

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

bigbearomaha said:


> Paying the booth fees at a farmers market, at least in my area, is more cost prohibitive because the people who operate the market itself are trying to make money of the table fees.
> 
> Big Bear


But what are you getting for that fee? I pay one market $175 for the year, another market gets $125, and there is a third market in a rural area that costs $10 for the whole year.

That money is what I pay for the privilege of being at the market. It pays for advertising, parking lot rent, liability insurance if something happens to someone at the market, and this fee pays for a market manager (usually another vendor who has to put up with all the complaints and all the inquiries from prospective vendors).

To pay to be present at these markets seems steep, but the opportunity to be there is well worth it. If you think you can do better setting up on a vacant lot by yourself, then more power to you. There is a synergy to be part of a marketing group that brings customers to the market. I sell a lot of honey to people who pass by my booth and buy somewhat impulsively...usually a small squeeze bear. But it all adds up.

All three market organizations have financial reports and no one is making any money off these fees. You may not realize what it costs the market to rent that space. The better the market, the more money you can expect to pay because the location is one of the prevailing factors to market success. You get what you pay for. And if you attend consistently, you develop a rapport that will bring back customers time and time again.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

that's what I'm saying. Farmers markets here attract vendors , multiple vendors with the same type of products. It can get to be overkill for the consumer who is looking at buying when they see 2 or 3 honey vendors, 5 or 6 cucumber and squash vendors, etc.. then For about the same price as my one event farmers market spot, I can get a 4 month seasonal vendor permit and and spread the cost of that over say 16 setups (or more) at my own location.

and here, I know for a fact that the operators of a couple of the biggest ones are indeed making a profit on entry fees instead of just dividing up costs.

Now, I may not have the temporary high traffic flow that I might see at a farmers market that is well known, but, I have the opportunity to spend more time with the customers, I am not surrounded by 10 other people selling the same thing and I have the equivalent to a unique presence that is consistent and recognized as time goes on.

So the trade of for maybe more sales at one time events vs the investment in time I put in to build up my one, consistent location is more than worth it. I happen to be set up in an area that is not served directly at all by these types of events, forcing customers to drive a good distance to get to a Farmers market. I am close, local and always there when I say I will be there. I am pretty recognized now and getting moreso as time goes on.

yup I spend the same amount of time working the table, less competition, more face time with people, less money spent per setup in terms of permits/fees etc... Not to mention the fact that although the burden of acquiring permits and permissions, etc.. is on me, I have the confidence of knowing exactly the terms of the those things as I made those arrangements myself. There is no one but the county or state inspectors that can 'shut me down' or otherwise wreak havoc with my stand unlike the petty politics that have been known to plague many a farmers market, (I am sure you know what I mean there. it's sometimes inescapable if you do them often enough.)

I can say I am more profitable with my stand than at Farmers Markets. That is because I work to make it be that way.

For the occasional vendor, someone with irregular batches of product to sell, my way would not be very profitable for them. The farmers market would indeed be their better option. 

I consider myself an "urban farmer". I have slowly but surely been moving my work and income to an agriculturally based business selling not only honey and honey bee derived products, but my own, locally grown produce as well. pollination services and being a consultant to others who are looking into the benefits of urban agriculture.

Big Bear


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

What Farmers Market locations do you sell at in Omaha???


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

none anymore. I have my one setup on 26th and Chandler Road in Bellevue now. 

Saturdays, 8 to noon.

Feel free to stop by anytime.

Big Bear


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Well said, bigbearomaha. Glad you have a system that works for you. And thanks for sharing those insights. Hopefully someone else can work the same system to their advantage as well.

I've tried what you're doing in this area and the farmer's market works better for me. Part of what works for me is a market association that is operated and controlled by the vendors. We have transparent financial statements. I'm also the lone honey producer at these markets which helps a great deal. 

In this area we have a host of melon and sweet corn vendors who pull up to the local gas station with a trailer full of produce they bought wholesale. Here today, gone tomorrow. You never know when or where they'll set up. Farmer's markets help the customer to know when and where I'll be. It also makes better use of my time.

Now, that said, I have also been part of a couple of other farmer's markets that were the absolute pits. I did more business selling to other vendors, and because the customers were few and far between, the vendors browsed and visited with each other. We all sold to each other, but I spent my profits supporting the other vendors! This was many years ago when I was getting started and the opportunities left to us beginners were these lesser markets. Sadly, those markets are still stuggling for a variety of reasons, one of them being the inconsistent customer base that starves out the vendors.

I've also tried the flea markets, the fall festivals, the health fairs, the art shows, etc., and these do not work for me. Too much time spent for the little bit of honey that is sold.

The beauty of beekeeping is how we can create our own niche, create our own marketing plan and sell to our best advantage. Thanks for sharing!

Grant
Jackson, MO

http://maxhoney.homestead.com


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Like Grant, i'm the only vendor with honey at our market. I also sell some fruit and veg. We have stricted rules, you can only sell what you produce on your farm. One vendor was kicked out this year for buying tomato's(and other fruit and veg) at auction and saying he grew them. When you sign up here to be a vendor you give the market manager and board members the right to inspect your farm in case of customer complaints. We pride ourselfs as being a farmers market, not a fruit and veggie stand.:thumbsup: Jack


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