# 2022 rookies thread!



## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

After reading a bunch of first timer package install threads, I thought it would be cool to start one as well plus leave an open invitation for all the other rookies and new beekeepers to add on there own trials and tribulations here.

Initial install was April 7th. In my mind, the earliest possible date from Mann Lake was the date that I wanted my package bees. Even though I live in USDA zone 4b. Our weather sucked when the bees arrived and they sat in the shed a day. I was preparing to string a tarp between two trees when the rain stopped and I was able to install.

Oops #1 happened during the install. When I went to put the entrance reducer in, I realized my bottom board was upside down on the South hive. No problem...I just lifted the hive up and flipped it over. It was in that moment that the extent of how many dead bees there was shipped in a package really hit me, as the dead had all fallen lifeless to the bottom of the hive. When I flipped the bottom board over, I was faced with a pile of not moving souls. Every day I watch them drag dead bees out of the hives.

It's the one thing no one really prepares a new beekeeper for. Dead bees everywhere.

A few days later I snuck in, no smoke,pulled the queen cages and fed more sugar water. This is where oops #2 happened.

Oops #2...which I will try to correct on Sunday when the weather breaks 40 degrees again...is the frame spacing. In hindsight, I know I do not have my frames spaced tight enough and will likely end up with a messy comb in my deep brood box. I've thought my way through it a bit. I really don't want to set the bees back any just so that I can have a "neat" box. I didn't do my job, now they are just going to improvise adapt and overcome. As such, if I cannot shift the comb tight enough to correct the situation...I'll probably just let it be. 

My thought is that assuming they live (always plan for the best) through next winter, they will be up into the next box by the end. At that time, I can rotate the top boxes to the bottom, put the bottom boxes with the wonky comb on top, keep the good frames and swap in new frames for the bad. By doing this, I don't set the hive back anymore than I have to this spring.

Other than that, things are going well. We had our first pollen sighting a couple days ago. Yellow. I went on a mission to find the source and located it yesterday. The Alders on the river the bees and I live on. 

Plan is to load more sugar water into the hives on 4/17, temperature should be in the low 40's. They are taking it fine in the 40's, my theory is that the bees are keeping the bag warm enough to make it tolerable. At this time, I'll try compacting the frames a bit tighter where possible to nut smash together comb (assuming I'm right and they are building wonky). 

A week from today we should start daytime highs in the 50-60's here. The Red Maples and Willows should give my ladies a big boost and from there it'll be off to the races. The interesting part now is getting them to that point, while hoping they have enough still alive to take advantage of it. That whole...bees facing death thing and all. I didn't think my way through it until now, but with package bees...the hive is in a constant state of declining population until 42-45ish days later when the fresh bees are old enough to do something. 

Class of 2022 Rookies...feel free to share your oops in here. Let's learn together!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

PFiji said:


> After reading a bunch of first timer package install threads, I thought it would be cool to start one as well plus leave an open invitation for all the other rookies and new beekeepers to add on there own trials and tribulations here.
> 
> Initial install was April 7th. In my mind, the earliest possible date from Mann Lake was the date that I wanted my package bees. Even though I live in USDA zone 4b. Our weather sucked when the bees arrived and they sat in the shed a day. I was preparing to string a tarp between two trees when the rain stopped and I was able to install.
> 
> ...


Bravo on your install, I started a thread on Tuesday when I installed my Mann lake package 
My only oops was when I loaded the hive top feeder with prosweet I spilled some down the center mesh so the overflow pushed my entrance reducer out and I got a puddle of pro sweet below hive but the girls spent a day eating it up and now it’s gone. Yes lots of dead bees but the book said that would happen so I wasn’t shocked. I’m doing my first open inspection on This Tuesday, one week after install! Good luck on your hive I’ll keep my reports going on my thread


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Seems like I learn something new every time I feed these things. And I've been trying to crack the top open and get warm feed to them every few days as even the Red Maples haven't given up their bounty here yet. Yesterday I switched hive #1 off the gallon zip lock method to a jar with a few holes poked in the lid. I put the jar over the inner cover, but of course it didn't completely cover the hole in the inner cover. I'm sure I'm going to have comb built now in the empty super not down in the frame as I want them. So when it warms up to 40 today...I'm probably go reconfigure that. Overall hive #1 is my smaller more gentle hive. They are confirmed to have been bringing in pollen when we had a few warm days also. Nice work hive #1.

Hive #2 is my handful. Cracked the top open to get them some fresh feed. Learned why I think I'll avoid the gallon zip lock method rolling forward. Last feed the bees were down in the frames doing bee things. This feed they were clustered in the empty super with some comb built on the empty feeder can from the package. No fresh feed for them as they were animated when I cracked the top cover open and I didn't have any smoke with me.

Looking at the weather, I get 40-43 degrees today...and then cold until Thursday. I'm hopeful that the bees fly at 40 today, and then I may bust out the smoke for the first time. Get that feed can out. Remove the oddball comb for usage as swarm trap bait. Set inner cover down, put jar feeder that completely covers the inner cover hole over it. 

Bees will build comb anywhere you let them. Or so it seems.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

PFiji said:


> When I flipped the bottom board over, I was faced with a pile of not moving souls. Every day I watch them drag dead bees out of the hives.
> 
> It's the one thing no one really prepares a new beekeeper for. Dead bees everywhere.


Quite sobering and a good reminder to us as well.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

My swarm traps have not had much activity around them so I am considering getting a package. It's just not cheap and... what if it dies over the winter. Or my swarm traps do end up working. I just am not sure about the package. Any thoughts here?


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## TelmahQ (Jun 3, 2021)

Great idea for a thread. I’m starting my 2nd year of beekeeping now so I feel kinship to those just starting out. Last year we lived 2 hours away from the apiary so nearly the first thing I did was I develop the habit of reading Beesource when otherwise I’d just be wondering how the bees were doing. This year we live right down the road and working on expanding. 

Biggest newbee mistake I made early on was putting together frames- I didn’t realize at the time how stuck in they can get, and a lot of mine are too easy to pull apart. I have fixed a lot of them with glue and staples, but there are plenty still in hive that I will be dealing with for a long time!

The other one was putting the bee yard somewhere inaccessible, we are fixing that this spring too. 

My favorite beesource thread is the one about the newbeek who was going to split his way to 1,000 hives with exponential growth 😂


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

BEE J said:


> My swarm traps have not had much activity around them so I am considering getting a package. It's just not cheap and... what if it dies over the winter. Or my swarm traps do end up working. I just am not sure about the package. Any thoughts here?


I started with a pair of packages at the earliest possible ship date from Mann Lake. In hindsight, the weather here is still super cold depending on the year and this feels too early for a complete newbie beekeeper. Now that I'm 10 day post install, it really isn't that bad though. I'm just popping the lids and refreshing feed fairly regularly hoping that the girls get through to the first flow (which should be any day).

Nucs are fairly abundant within 60 miles of my location. But not available until early to mid May. In my mind, I thought I could feed a package to be further along than what a nuc would be at that time. I may have been wrong. I also may buy a nuc yet just to see how it compares to the packages. 

How has swarm trapping worked out for you? Are you in an area with lots of bees for catching swarms? I hunt and fish quite a bit. One thing I've learned from that that I think really applies to swarm trapping for me personally...is that it's awful hard to harvest an animal, be it a duck, turkey, or bee...if there isn't many in the area to begin with. Swarm trapping is on my list. I spend a fair amount of time in the woods anyhow between now and early to mid June. I'm planning on using 3 Jester Nuc boxes. If there's anyone that has used these for swarm trapping, I'd appreciate learning what not to do before I find out the hard way lol.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

TelmahQ said:


> Great idea for a thread. I’m starting my 2nd year of beekeeping now so I feel kinship to those just starting out. Last year we lived 2 hours away from the apiary so nearly the first thing I did was I develop the habit of reading Beesource when otherwise I’d just be wondering how the bees were doing. This year we live right down the road and working on expanding.
> 
> Biggest newbee mistake I made early on was putting together frames- I didn’t realize at the time how stuck in they can get, and a lot of mine are too easy to pull apart. I have fixed a lot of them with glue and staples, but there are plenty still in hive that I will be dealing with for a long time!
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I'm dreading dealing with a few of my frames at a later date lol. I bought a cheap harbor freight air nailer for mine, and am still not completely confident it's going to be okay. 

What did you do that your yard wasn't very accessible?


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

PFiji said:


> I started with a pair of packages at the earliest possible ship date from Mann Lake. In hindsight, the weather here is still super cold depending on the year and this feels too early for a complete newbie beekeeper. Now that I'm 10 day post install, it really isn't that bad though. I'm just popping the lids and refreshing feed fairly regularly hoping that the girls get through to the first flow (which should be any day).
> 
> Nucs are fairly abundant within 60 miles of my location. But not available until early to mid May. In my mind, I thought I could feed a package to be further along than what a nuc would be at that time. I may have been wrong. I also may buy a nuc yet just to see how it compares to the packages.
> 
> How has swarm trapping worked out for you? Are you in an area with lots of bees for catching swarms? I hunt and fish quite a bit. One thing I've learned from that that I think really applies to swarm trapping for me personally...is that it's awful hard to harvest an animal, be it a duck, turkey, or bee...if there isn't many in the area to begin with. Swarm trapping is on my list. I spend a fair amount of time in the woods anyhow between now and early to mid June. I'm planning on using 3 Jester Nuc boxes. If there's anyone that has used these for swarm trapping, I'd appreciate learning what not to do before I find out the hard way lol.


Thanks for the response! We have had lots of worker bees harvesting the nectar around here and several SCOUT bees checking out places for homes. But none of the scout bees seem to have found my traps or if they did they didn't like them.

I think I would rather get a package than a nuc as I am using a lazutin hive, but I have never done much reading on them. 
I've put up 3 swarm traps in the past week. 1# Is made out of a medium Langstroth super placed about 5 feet off the ground 2# Is two medium Langstroth supers placed about 8-10ft up in a pine tree 3# Is a deep brood box placed about 5ft. up in an evergreen tree.

So far only one scout bee was buzzing around trap 3's area. I baited all of them with lemongrass and I used mostly old frames with a little old wax (mostly up top on the frames) and some with starter strips (the deep box had 2 frames with complete wax foundation. No bees seem interested in them, though. I hope you have better success!!! Congradulations on your install!

Keep Buzzing, BEEJ


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## TelmahQ (Jun 3, 2021)

PFiji said:


> What did you do that your yard wasn't very accessible?


We put it down in a hollow to be out of the wind. It’s great for that, spring is ahead down there, but the scramble path to get there is prone to mud and not appropriate for hauling gear. We thought about putting in a staircase but it would be a PITA to maintain the mowing for the bear fence (coming soon) too.

Just right now the boxes are manageable before the flow, so we are moving to a new site which is exposed on the high ground but you can drive right to it. They have a haystack for wind break.

My first package is on order for next weekend (we started with nucs last year). I received a free Warre hive (included with some other gear) so a pkg seemed like the most straightforward way to populate it. I did have some foundationless comb I was able to glue to a few top bars to give them some guidance.

That was my other newbie mistake- I temporarily drank the koolaid about foundationless comb for bee health and ended up with a bunch of poorly drawn frames for the trouble! My new preference is mostly foundation with just a few places for them to make natural comb for the boys.


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## Lumberman (Jul 20, 2021)

Another 2022 rookie checking in. Also in Michigan but a ways south of Grayling! 

Installed my first package Wednesday and it been brutal weather. This is a super cold April. 

I took a bit of a different approach and just left them alone since I’m thinking not opening the hive will help them conserve heat. Probably check today just to make sure my queen got out.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

TelmahQ said:


> I did have some foundationless comb I was able to glue to a few top bars to give them some guidance.
> 
> That was my other newbie mistake- I temporarily drank the koolaid about foundationless comb for bee health and ended up with a bunch of poorly drawn frames for the trouble!


It is only the first winter I have successfully pulled my hives thru and my second season with bees, so I still feel like a rookie. 

I will note, just for other new beekeepers that come later and read this thread, going foundation less is not newbie a mistake. It is a method of beekeeping that is doable and works just fine for many but it is a beekeeping skill that takes time to learn.

Although I do agree it is not linked to bee health, it can be a successful way to keep bees.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

ursa_minor said:


> It is only the first winter I have successfully pulled my hives thru and my second season with bees, so I still feel like a rookie.


Your very knowledgeable though, ursa. You've really helped some real rookies, like me, with all of your informative posts. Thanks for your contribution to this forum!!! 


ursa_minor said:


> I will note, just for other new beekeepers that come later and read this thread, going foundation less is not newbie a mistake. It is a method of beekeeping that is doable and works just fine for many but it is a beekeeping skill that takes time to learn.


Good point! I myself am doing foundation in all my frames for now. I didn't want to take the time to learn this technique (at least for now), but in the future it could be a great thing to do. It would save me money and let the bees build the cells the size they want. I'm not there yet though.


ursa_minor said:


> Although I do agree it is not linked to bee health, it can be a successful way to keep bees.


Do some beekeepers claim that? So do you think bee health is more related to their genes, environment, etc. than their house or frame?

Thanks ursa, BEEJ 

P.S.I have noticed your name. Isn't ursa minor the constellation also known as "The Little Bear"?


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

BEE J said:


> P.S.I have noticed your name. Isn't ursa minor the constellation also known as "The Little Bear"?


yup, as is the name Ursula.

I don't thing bee health has anything to do with foundtionless, there are so many healthy colonies out there that are a mix of different hive styles and frame types. IMO it is a matter of both bee genetics and beekeeper skill.


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## Tumbleweed (Mar 17, 2021)

Trimmed my fingernails the night before package install and kept dropping the can back inside.
Put to much sugar water in the plastic baggie for top feeding and watched it run, no, pour out the entrance reducer…I know some bees got soaked…sorry lady’s.
Thinking I didn’t need smoke to do a “quick check” on the queen cage, yikes!!!


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Tumbleweed said:


> Trimmed my fingernails the night before package install and kept dropping the can back inside.
> Put to much sugar water in the plastic baggie for top feeding and watched it run, no, pour out the entrance reducer…I know some bees got soaked…sorry lady’s.
> Thinking I didn’t need smoke to do a “quick check” on the queen cage, yikes!!!


I'm sure there's some sugar water in the bottom of my hives too lol. My first baggie I slit a little too deep with the box cutter. Oooops.

Pulled my queen cages out with no smoke. Opened top/inner cover brushed the bees away and reached in and snagged it. No problem at all. 

Finally used some smoke today on my one hive. I had copious amounts of burr comb up in the empty medium that had to go. Started out with the plastic baggies laying on top of the frames. That allowed them to build a mess in the empty medium that had to go. 

Current configuration is brood box, inner cover, piece of screen over inner cover hole, jar with holes punched in lid over inner cover hole. This hopefully will keep them from climbing in that empty medium and building more burr comb.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

PFiji said:


> I'm hopeful that the bees fly at 40 today


50 ish is the fly temp.
bees need wing muscles at 80 degrees to fly so the to cold temps do not work well.


GG


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Gray Goose said:


> 50 ish is the fly temp.
> bees need wing muscles at 80 degrees to fly so the to cold temps do not work well.
> 
> 
> GG


Good to know!


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

ursa_minor said:


> there are so many healthy colonies out there that are a mix of different hive styles and frame types. IMO it is a matter of both bee genetics and beekeeper skill.


That's quite an interesting thought. There're so many types of hives and mixed reviews about them. While I still suspect that what kind if hive they live in could effect them, it is still unclear which one is best. And the "best" may vary depending on your race of bees, environmental factors, etc. I hope my bees won't have to depend to much on my skill, though  -(I don't have much).


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## Lumberman (Jul 20, 2021)

I did check my hive yesterday. 

Good news the queen was released. I didn't see her, but the cage was empty. Didn't really look either. They are starting to draw comb on the foundation. 

Added a pollen patty just because they can't fly for another 4-5 days and made sure the Sugar Syrup was topped off. Probably leave them alone now for a couple of weeks until my nucs come in.


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## Newbeedan (Apr 19, 2019)

I installed 2 nuc's May 23rd 2021, too late for nectar flow here in Arizona. They made it through last summer, fall, winter and are happy things are starting to bloom. I am doing this for the bees but it will be nice to get some honey!


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## niland (May 1, 2020)

PFiji said:


> Oops #2...which I will try to correct on Sunday when the weather breaks 40 degrees again...is the frame spacing. In hindsight, I know I do not have my frames spaced tight enough and will likely end up with a messy comb in my deep brood box. I've thought my way through it a bit. I really don't want to set the bees back any just so that I can have a "neat" box. I didn't do my job, now they are just going to improvise adapt and overcome. As such, if I cannot shift the comb tight enough to correct the situation...I'll probably just let it be.


Great thread idea!

Don't be afraid to fix comb issues. I was and learned to regret that. Especially any comb that bridges frames. Remove the frames at first opportunity and use your hive tool to scrape out any comb that isn't facing the right direction. Don't worry about egg, larvae or whatever. Just do it and be done.

As for wonky comb that extends past the edge of the frame, no worries. I always push new frames nice and tight, and am marveled by the precision of the new drawn comb and the exact bee space between the frames. Fast forward and propolis and wax buildup make spacing more difficult. Then the bees stretch the comb a bit...before you know it the frames are all evenly spaced to the edge of the box whether you like it or not. It mostly a benefit in the supers. For brood...eh. That's their space anyway.

Cheers and thanks for a great new thread.

Brett


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Newbeedan said:


> I am doing this for the bees but it will be nice to get some honey!


I think most of us are after that.🍵🐝 I hope the bees will be happy with my care, too.

Cheers, BEEJ


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## TelmahQ (Jun 3, 2021)

Picked up my package, it’s chilling in ventilated shade while I wait for the end of the day to hive them. They will share a bench with an established hive so I want to reduce drift (it’s also 50 mph wind gusts today so in general it’s just fine if they don’t fly till tomorrow).










Too windy for the smoker (and an inspection in general) so I have to wait to get into my other hives. I am certain the big hive will begin swarm prep (destined for a split pretty soon), the only question is which will come first, swarm cells or a break in the weather!


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

TelmahQ said:


> Picked up my package...


Where did you get your bees from? What breed were they?


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## TelmahQ (Jun 3, 2021)

BEE J said:


> Where did you get your bees from? What breed were they?


From a commercial beekeeper who delivers packages all around the region. https://onlinebeeschool.com/packagebeeoptions/

If I were you Bee J, I would try and buy bees in case your traps don’t hit. I did SO much wishful beekeeping when we were 2 hours away from the yard last season… it’s going to be a looong winter of reading and painting boxes till next spring if you don’t get to start playing with bees this season. 

But don’t mail order a package, check your bee stores and Facebook and Craigslist. Around here I have seen nucs and packages available last minute when the pickup day comes and there are some leftover. Also as the season goes on, some smaller beeks might have a nuc or two they are rehoming to keep their colony count where they want it. For sure there will be local bees for sale even if you didn’t pre order in winter, you just might have to look harder. If you let the club know you need bees, someone might remember to call you for that next swarm once they are out of wooden ware.

Here there are local beekeeping groups on Facebook, you don’t have to join a club or pay dues to post and read. I’m sure someone local can help you out or at least point you in the right direction.

Of course, if you do that you will probably also have success with the traps (Murphy’s law), so make sure you want that # of hives.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

TelmahQ said:


> From a commercial beekeeper who delivers packages all around the region. https://onlinebeeschool.com/packagebeeoptions/
> 
> If I were you Bee J, I would try and buy bees in case your traps don’t hit. I did SO much wishful beekeeping when we were 2 hours away from the yard last season… it’s going to be a looong winter of reading and painting boxes till next spring if you don’t get to start playing with bees this season.
> 
> ...


Just yesterday I started get promising action around several of my swarm traps! Must be the wheather that caused this dudden surge. Thanks for all the info, bro! 

I really hope I will get these free, local bees. I guess we'll find out!


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Out of town for about a week. Came home. Was watching the bee traffic today at 52 degrees. One hive (actually what started as the smaller quantity of bees) has a TON of pollen coming in. Just a steady stream this afternoon. The other hive...very very little. I might have saw one bee bringing it back in to the hive. Two tops. Quite a few bees that looked like they have some residue on their legs, but not big full baskets.

Am I in trouble? Was planning on opening things up this weekend to take a look.


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

I wouldn’t read too much into resource discrepancies judging forager activity. An inspection is necessary. Each colonies resource needs at any given time can be quite different. The colony not bringing in much pollen may have already come across the same source your other colony is hitting so hard and now they really need nectar. The colonies don’t communicate with one another and some of what each is bringing in is simply up to random chance. If you do an inspection and find little to no nectar or pollen or a lack of both, then yes, that’s troubling. Otherwise, a difference in what each colony is bringing in at on specific snapshot in time isn’t terribly telling. I have one colony that I rarely see bringing in as much pollen as another right next to it during the hours I’m able to watch the hive entrances, but they have plenty in the comb and all the brood looks good so it isn’t a concern.


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## DGreco1602 (9 mo ago)

Lumberman said:


> Another 2022 rookie checking in. Also in Michigan but a ways south of Grayling!
> 
> Installed my first package Wednesday and it been brutal weather. This is a super cold April.
> 
> I took a bit of a different approach and just left them alone since I’m thinking not opening the hive will help them conserve heat. Probably check today just to make sure my queen got out.


I’m in Gladwin county Michigan and had our first hive last year and it died. Restarting again this year and I am trying to figure out when to get my bees? Your right April was very cold trying to figure out the best place to buy bees and when the best would be?


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

BEE J said:


> Just yesterday I started get promising action around several of my swarm traps! Must be the wheather that caused this dudden surge. Thanks for all the info, bro!
> 
> I really hope I will get these free, local bees. I guess we'll find out!


Any luck getting a swarm trap to hit? Or did you end up placing an order? Hanging swarm traps is on the list for this coming weekend for me.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

DGreco1602 said:


> I’m in Gladwin county Michigan and had our first hive last year and it died. Restarting again this year and I am trying to figure out when to get my bees? Your right April was very cold trying to figure out the best place to buy bees and when the best would be?


I'd try to get them now. We've got a run of nice weather and the flows are going to start. Up here, the red maple is already open. I found one rogue plant opened up in a dry spot that looked like pussy willow a couple days ago. Now if the bees can/did actually take advantage of it is TBD. Willows and Dandelions are going to start popping in the next week or two. The 70 degree weather in the 10 day forecast is going to jump start things.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Lemon Yellow. 95% certain this is willow pollen coming in. Have three different shades of pollen being brought in currently. Willow, Alder, and Red Maple. 

In keeping with the "mistakes" portion of this thread. Decided to try to lift the empty body and inner cover to peek in at my bees. No suit. No smoke. Random spur of the moment. The bees didn't freak but I still squished a few when I put the thing back together. And the worst part is...I didn't even get a good look at the bees inside lol.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

First headbutt. Was standing there watching from the same spot I always watch from. Had a guard bee fly right into the side of my head hard. 

Point taken Miss. I'll move now.


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## Lumberman (Jul 20, 2021)

My package is doing awesome. They are building very fast now that we have some decent weather. Took this picture yesterday. 








Turns out my bees absolutely hate my phone. Took a few stings taking the picture. The bees flew off the frame right onto my hand holding the phone. Weird. They were fine before I took my phone out.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Lumberman said:


> My package is doing awesome. They are building very fast now that we have some decent weather. Took this picture yesterday.
> View attachment 69093
> 
> Turns out my bees absolutely hate my phone. Took a few stings taking the picture. The bees flew off the frame right onto my hand holding the phone. Weird. They were fine before I took my phone out.


Outstanding! Your packages are doing good (in my rookie uneducated opinion)! I really think the cold weather shafted me. Lesson learned.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

As alluded to in the previous post, lesson learned. Don't order package bees for the earliest possible delivery date when you live in zone 4. It doesn't go well. It goes even worse when you're dealing with a cold spring like what this one was. 

First full inspections done today. Currently 64 degrees and sunny. 

The smaller of my two hives (South hive) is the hive that has bringing in pollen fairly regularly. I knew this have was smaller, but wasn't exactly sure just how small. There was a couple of queen cells present. May have been a supercedure. Wasn't thinking to brush the bees away and get a better photo. Thought I saw eggs or larva. TBD. Did not see any drone cells but may have missed something. 


































The North hive actually seems to have about the same quantity of bees I'd say. Maybe more, but if so not by a ton. 


















































Both hives were very easy to work. No stings. Took my gloves off and snapped pics no problem. Based on what I'm seeing and the fact that they weren't aggressive, safe to assume there's a queen in there somewhere doing her thing? I just need to pile the feed on heavy to get them caught up from the cold weather?


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## plantman (May 30, 2020)

@PFiji I'm having a hard time focusing your first pic,but the Queen may be posing for you.Near the bottom on some bare comb appears to me your Queen backing to a cell could be wrong....Looks to be drones on that frame also..


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

I think I'm alright. The North Hive has a massive ugly comb (the last photo/photo 10) on a frame that I didn't pull. I'm guessing that's got the good. 

Zoomed in a bit on the computer and looked a little closer. The South hive appears to have both capped brood and larva in this photo? 

Theoretically though, the overwintering workers should start kicking the bucket and I'll know really quick if I have functioning queens right? Also, are smaller worker bees a potential sign of a functioning queen with a deficiency? I watched the entrance a bit yesterday afternoon and had workers bringing pollen back, but some of them were noticeably smaller.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Warm here. 75-80ish Fortunately for me, I have a long sleeve heavier shirt on as my home office is in the basement where it's cool.

Just survived my first sting attempt. Was taking a picture of pollen coming in like usual when a bee landed on my shirt covered wrist. Kinda think it was already stinging when I went to brush it off with my phone, as it didn't just fly away on the brush attempt. Instead, I got the heck out of dodge and pulled this out of my shirt.

Now I have to overthink what this means. Did a random bee take offense to something I've did multiple times? Is it the green fuzzy sweatshirt? Is my Queen actually gone and now we're aggro? What is the meaning of life? And where is Hoffa really buried?

Also, part of me wants to go back in there and see if I get bum rushed. Probably not a good plan I know.


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## Lumberman (Jul 20, 2021)

Here is the update on the Nucs I received, My package install has gone very well. 

The nucs have been a different story. Many lessons learned. 

What to expect in a nuc | Beesource Beekeeping Forums


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

“Also, are smaller worker bees a potential sign of a functioning queen with a deficiency? I watched the entrance a bit yesterday afternoon and had workers bringing pollen back, but some of them were noticeably smaller.”

Smallish looking workers are not necessarily a sign of anything wrong. Off the top of my head, and these numbers may be a few tenths of a mm off, worker brood cell size can range from 5.4mm-4.6mm. Comb drawn from foundation will typically approach the higher end, as that’s the cell size at which the foundation is normally pressed. Naturally drawn comb, foundationless, will range between those limits, with the average usually being somewhere in the middle. Smallish bees are okay, so long as they appear healthy and are capable of flight. Small bees that have deformities, most commonly DFW, are a bad sign and you should perform some tests to identify the culprit (it’ll most likely be viruses vectored by varroa). There’s been a lot of talk over the years about the efficacy of small cell size in combating varroa. If you’re interested in reading more about it, I’d say to check out Michael Bush’s website. I think it is Bushfarms.com. If I remember correctly, there have also been a few experiments with the authors saying their work refuted the idea. Sorry, I don’t know any links or info for those off the top of my head.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

NUBE said:


> “Also, are smaller worker bees a potential sign of a functioning queen with a deficiency? I watched the entrance a bit yesterday afternoon and had workers bringing pollen back, but some of them were noticeably smaller.”
> 
> Smallish looking workers are not necessarily a sign of anything wrong. Off the top of my head, and these numbers may be a few tenths of a mm off, worker brood cell size can range from 5.4mm-4.6mm. Comb drawn from foundation will typically approach the higher end, as that’s the cell size at which the foundation is normally pressed. Naturally drawn comb, foundationless, will range between those limits, with the average usually being somewhere in the middle. Smallish bees are okay, so long as they appear healthy and are capable of flight. Small bees that have deformities, most commonly DFW, are a bad sign and you should perform some tests to identify the culprit (it’ll most likely be viruses vectored by varroa). There’s been a lot of talk over the years about the efficacy of small cell size in combating varroa. If you’re interested in reading more about it, I’d say to check out Michael Bush’s website. I think it is Bushfarms.com. If I remember correctly, there have also been a few experiments with the authors saying their work refuted the idea. Sorry, I don’t know any links or info for those off the top of my head.


That would make sense. I'm not super impressed with this Amazon frame/foundation combo. I guess that's what you get for buying bottom priced stuff. The girls cross comb the bloody hell out of it in spots and just kinda do what they want. Makes sense that they would have smaller bees/cells in there.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

5/15 inspection
Both hives are alive and kicking. They didn't hardly touch the feeder in the last week. So...I pulled it off. There's tons of stuff in bloom here now. I'm guessing they are content to work the real stuff vs taking the 1:1.

Spent some time but didn't find the Queen. Still, both hives had frames that looked like this, plus larva...so I'm guessing I'm fine.









Both hives are building out frames extremely slowly. They each have a mega frame plus a couple partials. Significantly behind where they would be if I'd have purchased five frame nucs locally a week or so ago. Live and learn. 










So...I guess we've established that ordering package bees for the earliest possible delivery day when you live in zone 4b is not a great plan. But both hives are alive and kicking.


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## JMorgan (9 mo ago)

This thread is giving me hope! First time Beek + top bar hive + unseasonably hot spring has made for some interesting times in hiveland. Earlier this week i went in to straighten out some cross-combing (the ladies have been BUSY). I went in early since it's been in the 90's & windy in the afternoons here in New Mexico. I started around 9:30am and quickly ran into issues. big pieces of comb were just falling off and smothering the bees. I salvaged what I could but lost a lot of brood comb, nectar was everywhere, and the comb was so soft it was like trying to handle warm butter. Definitely not a pretty situation. I cleaned up what I could, saved as much comb as possible, and got out of there. I'm giving them a few days to recoup, but going back in extra early this weekend to get the last few cross-combs and keep my fingers crossed the bees recover strong.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

JMorgan said:


> This thread is giving me hope! First time Beek + top bar hive + unseasonably hot spring has made for some interesting times in hiveland. Earlier this week i went in to straighten out some cross-combing (the ladies have been BUSY). I went in early since it's been in the 90's & windy in the afternoons here in New Mexico. I started around 9:30am and quickly ran into issues. big pieces of comb were just falling off and smothering the bees. I salvaged what I could but lost a lot of brood comb, nectar was everywhere, and the comb was so soft it was like trying to handle warm butter. Definitely not a pretty situation. I cleaned up what I could, saved as much comb as possible, and got out of there. I'm giving them a few days to recoup, but going back in extra early this weekend to get the last few cross-combs and keep my fingers crossed the bees recover strong.


I have all my frames spaced properly now, but was definitely not spaced right to start. How did you have your frames spaced?


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## ballseleven (May 26, 2020)

First time beekeeper checking in.

I convinced my wife to let me keep bees in our backyard (I had to buy her a van though). I picked up my nuc Friday evening and got it home to open up to give them the night and morning to get their bearings. Saturday afternoon I made the transfer to the hive body. I didn't spot the queen but also didn't realize the marking was yellow so I'll try again this coming weekend. The frames were loaded with honey, capped brood, and pollen though.

I got the hive and frames from a family member who keeps bees and had some extras laying around in storage for the past 2 years. There was old comb I was debating on removing or not but decided to leave on. About an hour after I made the transfer I walked back outside to see any activity and they already had a little pile of old comb that they were throwing out the front. I guess when in doubt, let the bees decide. I also saw a ton of pollen pants (my boys 6y/o & 4 y/o thought that was the funniest thing they ever heard) Saturday and Sunday so they are going right to work.

So far they are incredible to observe. The boys have brought me out there a couple of times just so we can sit in the grass to watch and they ask questions. I'm looking forward to getting it back open this weekend to see any progress and give myself another chance at finding the queen.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Pretty big day here. 95% certain I got to watch my one hive have some serious orientation flight action this afternoon.  Never seen that level of flying going on before.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

Found and marked queens for the first time. Two, one bright pink and one lavender. Was a wonderful experience just hope I did not hurt them as one queen fell in the bottom of the hive when I let her out of the push in marking cage. The up side is I watched her stroll across the bottom of the hive.


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## Lumberman (Jul 20, 2021)

My 3 hives are doing really well. Added my 2nd brood box on the last hive. My plan is to run two deep brood chambers.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

I must have lost the good majority of my bees during the cold weather. Either that or they hate this Amazon foundation/frame combo. It's now May 30th and the girls still don't have the original 10 frames drawn out on either hive. There's nectar coming in as I scraped some burr comb off the top of a frame and it was loaded with Nectar.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

PFiji
your earlier post says april 7 now may 30 so 53 or so days.
they will draw comb as they think they need it.

A package is a challenge with out comb to start.
The pace should start picking up.

How many frames are currently drawn?

remember it was 21 days to get the first bees to hatch, 42 is 2 brood cycles, so if you are at 7-8 frames considering the cool start, you are doing OK.

If the hive is not nectar bound, slight feeding when the next box is added may help to get it drawn out.

you are correct not all foundation is accepted equally by the bees.

GG


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## ballseleven (May 26, 2020)

I got my 2nd inspection done Friday. I am seeing details in the hive better with each inspection. I saw lots of eggs/larvae and thankfully spotted the queen. I had to swap out the bottom board and wanted to make sure I had her so I didn't accidentally squish her. I was able to trap her and continue my inspection and make the swap of the bottom board and replace the cover with a telescopic one. I've noticed that they have been drawing out the frames on the west side more than the ones to the east. They get a lot of shade in the morning from a privacy fence so I may slide the hive over a couple of feet. Even a move of 3 ft will have them getting sunlight about 2 hrs earlier than they are currently. I'll wait though because I've noticed they have been a little slow to get going in the mornings but we had an unseasonal cool front come through and had lows in the low 60s those mornings. Most of the summer we are lucky to hit low 70s at night.

I was going to add a medium for a 2nd brood box but they weren't done drawing out comb in the original so I'll hold off on that for now. I have been feeding the entire time and they are taking in about a quart every 2.5 or 3 days. They are busy and not aggressive in the least bit. I've had to use pretty minimal smoke so far and have been able to swap out the jar on the entrance feeder without any PPE. So far I'm very happy with my nuc from Evergreen Honey Company.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Gray Goose said:


> PFiji
> your earlier post says april 7 now may 30 so 53 or so days.
> they will draw comb as they think they need it.
> 
> ...


I'm only 4-5 frames right now, but ultimately that's fine. The hives have Queens that are laying, there's plenty of nectar out there right now. I have to remember to be patient and that I'm operating on their time, not mine. 

There's an increase in activity and workers. Now that I'm getting better with telling workers from drones, I've realized that I had a large amount of drones in the packages right from the supplier. 

Yesterday was a pretty cool day for me. I planted the lawn area at the new house with a pasture mix so that I could utilize the clover to build up the sandy soil. The bees worked that clover heavy yesterday


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