# Anyone tried Cleo Hogan handhold cutter and failed ?



## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

I tried to make the circular saw jig and the jig it came out perfect. The problem is it will not work. In order to get the blade on 20 degres i don't have enough depth to cut the handhold but 1/2 in. Also the saw is too faraway from the top to get the right distance. If i turn the saw around i can't get the blade to adj.am i missing something. Maye i could buy a lefthand saw.:scratch:


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I believe that Cleo's jig is intended for a saw with a fairly standard 7.25" blade. But there are saws with smaller blades - for instance I also have a Ryobi battery operated circular saw with a 5.5" blade.

Could your saw blade be less than 7.25" diameter?


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

My saw is a Dewalt with a 71/4 blade.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

I have a cheap plastic 7.25" Black and Decker, and the jig works great! Have you watched Cleo's video to see what you might be doing wrong?


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

i cobbled one together that is very similar to Cleo's. i don;t remember what i used for material, or the angle, but if you have too much angle, or too thick of a material as a base, i could see you running into problems. with cut depth


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Ted n Ms. My saw is a Skil, and the base will adjust two ways. One is for bevel, and the other is for depth of cut. 

I am not familiar with the DeWalt saw, but, does the base adjust for depth of cut.

Could you either post a photo of your saw here, or, send an e-mail to me [email protected] and i will try to help. I have never had anyone say that it wouldn't work. I suspect you may have the wrong saw. I did not know that they made left and right hand saws until someone brought it to my attention. 

When you look at the photos that accompany the jig instructions, does your saw look like that one. That is, when you place the saw in the jig, is the saw blade facing you, or away from you.

And yes, if the base is too thick, the blade will not cut deep enough.

cchoganjr


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Can some wood worker look at the photo of the saw I used in the demonstration and tell me if it is a left hand saw or a right hand saw.

Until it was brought to my attention, I did not know they made right and left hand. All the ones I have ever seen are like the one used in the video.









cchoganjr


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

A left handed saw has the blade on the left of the motor when looking in the cutting direction, as does this Bosch left hand saw ...








Photo linked from here: http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=CS5

In comparison, the blade in Cleo's photo is on the right side of the motor when looking in the cut direction.

While the photos are of saws of slightly different design, the dust chute at the _rear _of the blade guard clearly indicates the cutting direction is at the _other _end of the saw


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Ted n Ms... Others..... There is another video on U-Tube by someone who goes by the title, "1952 Jeep" . He said he had to modify the jig to get it to work for his saw. He explains how he modified it. On my computer it comes up when my video comes up. Maybe it will help.

Radar can probably post a link to this video. Not sure, but, his saw might be a De Walt.

cchoganjr


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

If I am reading this correctly you are tilting the blade? The sled gives you the slope, you do not tilt the blade. Put the blade at 90 degrees and turn the saw around (not get a left handed saw).
I could see how you would want to in order to get the top of the cut out square but that is not the design. 
Thanks again Cleo!


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## Myron Denny (Sep 27, 2009)

Cleo's jig does work, you have to build it for your saw. The first jig I built had problems, the second jig works!


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

minz said:


> If I am reading this correctly you are tilting the blade? The sled gives you the slope, you do not tilt the blade. Put the blade at 90 degrees and turn the saw around (not get a left handed saw).
> I could see how you would want to in order to get the top of the cut out square but that is not the design.
> Thanks again Cleo!


If the top of handhold is not square it is not the design i want. I need something i can i can hold onto. An angled handhold would be to easy to slip.


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Ted n Ms... Others..... There is another video on U-Tube by someone who goes by the title, "1952 Jeep" . He said he had to modify the jig to get it to work for his saw. He explains how he modified it. On my computer it comes up when my video comes up. Maybe it will help.
> 
> Radar can probably post a link to this video. Not sure, but, his saw might be a De Walt.
> 
> cchoganjr


Yes Cleo i have watched both of these on youtube. My saw adj. for both angle and depth.


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

If will notice 1952 Jeep videio he is using the saw the same way i am having to use mine inorder to set the angle to get a square cut on the top of the handhold.


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Can some wood worker look at the photo of the saw I used in the demonstration and tell me if it is a left hand saw or a right hand saw.
> 
> Until it was brought to my attention, I did not know they made right and left hand. All the ones I have ever seen are like the one used in the video.
> 
> ...


Hate to disagree with Rader, but...I have been using saws of both orientations for 32 years.
The pic of the Bosch saw is a left blade design which makes it a "righty saw"
A saw where the blade is a right blade design is considered a "lefty saw"
The perspective comes from line of sight during use with each particular hand.
I still find it hard to believe most people dont know what a worm drive saw is...(mostly designed as a righty saw)


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

dje15... In the picture of the saw that i have, what is the correct way to hold that saw. Right hand on the trigger and left hand on the knob, or would you have left hand on the trigger, and right hand on knob. (Or is there any such thing as, "correct".

And, then, would the one Radar posted be held opposite?

I am sooooo confused.

cchoganjr


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

djei5 said:


> The pic of the Bosch saw is a left blade design which makes it a "righty saw" ...


If you click the link under the photo in post #8, you will see that it is _Bosch_, the saw manufacturer, that is calling it a "left blade saw".

I do concede that the 'left handed saw' term was _my _phrase and not what the manufacturer wrote. 

Is the _saw _'left handed', or is it the saw _operator _that is 'left handed'? Hmmm ... 
I write with my left hand, throw a ball with my right hand, and use my worm drive circular saw with whichever hand is most convenient.
:lpf:
.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I am certainly not an expert here, but, it looks like when using a left blade design you would hold the trigger with the left hand, and when using a right blade design you hold the trigger with the right hand. Can anyone chime in here.

cchoganjr


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

djei5 said:


> Hate to disagree with Rader, but...I have been using saws of both orientations for 32 years.
> The pic of the Bosch saw is a left blade design which makes it a "righty saw"
> A saw where the blade is a right blade design is considered a "lefty saw"
> The perspective comes from line of sight during use with each particular hand.
> I still find it hard to believe most people dont know what a worm drive saw is...(mostly designed as a righty saw)


Cleo if this imformation is correct your saw is a lefty.
Standing behind your saw the blade is on the right. The Bosh saw the blade is on the left.


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> dje15... In the picture of the saw that i have, what is the correct way to hold that saw. Right hand on the trigger and left hand on the knob, or would you have left hand on the trigger, and right hand on knob. (Or is there any such thing as, "correct".
> 
> And, then, would the one Radar posted be held opposite?
> 
> ...


Lol, your saw configuration is the saw people buy the most, even right handed people. The draw back is on a long rip, you are trying to look over the saw to see the blade if its in your right hand, increasing the danger of a kickback. If your particular saw is in your left hand it is much easier to see the blade at point of cut without the danger of a kickback.


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> I am certainly not an expert here, but, it looks like when using a left blade design you would hold the trigger with the left hand, and when using a right blade design you hold the trigger with the right hand. Can anyone chime in here.
> 
> cchoganjr


If the blade is on the left and the saw is in your right hand you can see the blades point of cut through the entirety of the cut. Try using your saw to cut across a 4 foot sheet of plywood with your right hand, then tell me how well you see where the blade is cutting for that last foot.


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> If you click the link under the photo in post #8, you will see that it is _Bosch_, the saw manufacturer, that is calling it a "left blade saw".
> 
> I do concede that the 'left handed saw' term was _my _phrase and not what the manufacturer wrote.
> 
> ...


Exactly, a left side blade is a right hand saw, it is done for safety. Ever frame a hip style roof with valleys? You leave your hips and valleys long, once your rafters are set, you take your saws both left (right side blade) and right (left side blade) and make your cuts from top down. Right does right cut and left does left cut. The saw nor I really think it matters which one you have or which hand you use it with, as long as your satisfied with the results.

Most carpenters become quite ambidextrous with saw or hammer...


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

djei5 said:


> Most carpenters become quite ambidextrous with saw or hammer...


That is my problem, I am more amphibious than ambidextrous.

cchoganjr


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

:thumbsup: UPDATE Today i cut the handholds with the Hogan jig. The only problem is the top of handhold has small taper. Overall it is good.


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## paintingpreacher (Jul 29, 2006)

Wow! I spent most of my life as a carpenter and now I am confused. Google left hand circular saw and it shows the blade on the left. I cut with my right hand and I am only comfortable with the blade on the right. The front handhold would seem out of place otherwise. My dad was a carpenter all his life also. He was left handed, and I have his 50 yr old skill saw which has the blade on the right, so I suppose you can use whatever you feel comfortable with. I worked for a couple of construction companies and I don't recall them ever owning a saw with the blade on the left. Interesting!


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

paintingpreacher said:


> Wow! I spent most of my life as a carpenter and now I am confused. Google left hand circular saw and it shows the blade on the left. I cut with my right hand and I am only comfortable with the blade on the right. The front handhold would seem out of place otherwise. My dad was a carpenter all his life also. He was left handed, and I have his 50 yr old skill saw which has the blade on the right, so I suppose you can use whatever you feel comfortable with. I worked for a couple of construction companies and I don't recall them ever owning a saw with the blade on the left. Interesting!


I have two on the left, one on the right, as far as I know nearly every worm drive made is left side blade (right handed).
As I stated earlier, I find it incredible that most folks don't know what one is.
Skilsaw model 77 built in 1937 and called "the saw that built America" and carpenters are confused???


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

Hogan's saw is a "lefty", with the blade to the right of the motor. Think of it in terms of "which hand will get the saw blade in line with my eyes"? If you held Hogan's saw in your right hand, you'd have to tilt or lean your head way right to line up with and be able to view a straight line while cutting.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

djei5 said:


> I find it incredible that most folks don't know what one is.


I'm thinking most folks aren't carpenters.


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

FWIW, I made a similar jig for use on my table saw instead of using my worm-drive hand saw. Much easier, me thinks, using a dado blade.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

F6Hawk..Barry...Others....Tonight I received an e-mail request for information from an individual in Johnson City, TN. Thought I would share what he wrote. Certainly underscores what can happen around power tools.

QUOTE.."Presently I am recovering from a hand injury from trying to make a hand hold on my table saw using an adjustable dado blade. A violent kickback occurred and the board I was practicing on shot back like a bullet and sliced open the top of my right hand. Went to the ER and came out 5 hours later with 18 stitches. So you see I need a better method." UNQUOTE. 

He did not give any additional information as to how he was trying to make the hand hold.

cchoganjr


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Just buy a moulding head and make the handholds correctly. Mine is a Craftsman #3214 and it came with my saw, but I see them on ebay and amazon all the time in the 30-100 price range. Well worth the price if you are making more then a single hive. 

http://www.amazon.com/Corob-Molding...398595534&sr=8-8&keywords=molding+head+cutter


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

Very good point, Cleo. Dado blades are NO joke. The key is to always feed your work against the rotation of the blades, NEVER allow your work to travel with the rotation. 

I was playing around with fine-tuning my jig. Had made a few cuts/passes, and was looking for a way to make a wider handhold. Not 100% sure how it happened, I THINK I lifted the board, moved it, and set it back down in such a way that it was not against a stop, and also allowed it to move in the direction of rotation. The board jumped out of my hands. Being aware of the dangers of a saw blade, I jerked my hands quickly to head height (never think for a second that you are faster than the saw. I wasn't. I just got LUCKY!). Waited 5 seconds to make sure the saw wasn't going to come off the arbor after me, and shut off the saw. The handhold board knocked off the right stop (screwed on with three nails; had my fingers gotten in between, I would have had crushed fingers), which was on my driveway about 3 feet away. 

I looked around for the board I was cutting (short side of an 8-frame hive). Didn't see it. Expanded my looking to include behind me, even to my left (impossible, I told myself as I looked). I finally found it... about 80 feet away in my neighbor's yard. 

I picked up everything, put the jig in the garage, and went inside to clean my drawers and reflect on how to make a safer jig. And on whatever/whomever was looking over me that night...



Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> F6Hawk..Barry...Others....Tonight I received an e-mail request for information from an individual in Johnson City, TN. Thought I would share what he wrote. Certainly underscores what can happen around power tools.
> 
> QUOTE.."Presently I am recovering from a hand injury from trying to make a hand hold on my table saw using an adjustable dado blade. A violent kickback occurred and the board I was practicing on shot back like a bullet and sliced open the top of my right hand. Went to the ER and came out 5 hours later with 18 stitches. So you see I need a better method." UNQUOTE.
> 
> ...


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Finally and argument I can jump into! LOL I could cite references to try to get people to buy in to my reply, but I won't. I'll just tell you why saws are designed the way they are. 

The saw that Mr Cleo posted a picture of is a RIGHT handed saw.

A "standard" right hand circular saw has the blade on the right side. It is designed to be used by right handed people. If you use it right handed, you do have to look over or around the motor to see where the blade is cutting. As a left handed person, I use a standard saw and can see the entire blade. Technically speaking, I use a right handed saw, left handed. I prefer it that way, but it's disabling the main safety feature on the saw, and that is to keep the blade as far away from the user as possible.

Two reasons that saws are made that way is to keep the blade away from the user in the event of a kick back and to keep the sawdust from being thrown in the eyes of the person using the saw it has nothing to do with how you look at the blade..... When I use a RH saw LH, I get dust in my eyes even wearing safety glasses. That's because I'm using the saw wrong. The discharge chute for the dust is on the right side, to blow it away from the motor and the right handed user.

Baitcaster fishing reels are very similar. A right handed reel has the handle on the right side. A right handed person casts with their right hand, then has to swap hands with the rod to turn the handle on the reel. Right handed reels work great for a lefty. I cast left handed and can immediately start reeling with my right hand. That doesn't make it a left handed reel, even though it works better for left handed fishermen. 99% of right handed people put the handles on their spincast reels on the left side. They do that so they can cast with their right hand and reel with their left hand, but they keep buying "right handed" baitcasters. I don't understand why. Me not understanding why they are made that way doesn't change the dexterity of the reels....


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Brad Bee said:


> to keep the sawdust from being thrown in the eyes of the person using the saw it has nothing to do with how you look at the blade.....


I'll have to disagree. I quit using saws that I had to look over to see the line I was cutting. Call it whatever you want, right or left. Very unnatural. I have used the Saw Boss now for nearly 15 years. Being right handed, I can see what I'm cutting and the dust can be directed anyway you want.


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

Brad Bee said:


> The saw that Mr Cleo posted a picture of is a RIGHT handed saw.
> No, that is a left-handed saw (right blade).
> 
> A "standard" right hand circular saw has the blade on the right side. It is designed to be used by right handed people. If you use it right handed, you do have to look over or around the motor to see where the blade is cutting. As a left handed person, I use a standard saw and can see the entire blade. Technically speaking, I use a right handed saw, left handed. I prefer it that way, but it's disabling the main safety feature on the saw, and that is to keep the blade as far away from the user as possible.
> ...


2 chars


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

That's a right-handed saw. You pull the trigger with your right hand.

I think the confusion comes in because of the label "left blade saw". Yours is left-bladed. And right-handed. Hold that trigger with your left hand, reach over and hold the metal handle with your right hand, and it just feels wrong. And worm saws are even more different. I can hold mine with either hand fairly comfortably, but prefer my right hand (it's left-bladed). Just makes sense when you consider watching the line and catching the scraps, to me.



Barry said:


> I'll have to disagree. I quit using saws that I had to look over to see the line I was cutting. Call it whatever you want, right or left. Very unnatural. I have used the Saw Boss now for nearly 15 years. Being right handed, I can see what I'm cutting and the dust can be directed anyway you want.


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