# Will the half left without a queen make it this early?



## 22DPac (Jun 24, 2012)

Have you seen drones in your hives? I had to do the same thing with a hive, but had swarm cells and chose just to move the frames with cells and add some pollen and honey. Did you do a complete inspection to see if they are backfilling the brood area and making swarm cells?


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

You can be sure they make it by adding a queen to the queenless hive if there are no queen cells being formed.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Well, I do recall seeing 2 or 3 drowns yesterday inside that hive, and I'm certain there are more than just those 2 or 3 there.
For the half of the split that's left here, there there are 2 other hives close by with drowns to possibly mate with. The other half will be going to a friends house a few miles away with no other known bees in the area. I hope that half gets the queen but.... .

The weather is not suppose to be nice this weekend ether to do this. There is a lot of rain in the forecast. I might had still better try to "get er done".


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## Coach B (Feb 28, 2011)

Someone at our meeting the other night reported seeing a few drones in the hive in our area already. I have not seen any flying yet, but did find some capped drone brood just a few days ago. So if you did the split now by the time the queen emerged there would certainly be some drones flying. You could try opening up the brood nest now to delay the swarming instinct then split in a few more weeks when conditions should be better.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LampBurner said:


> The problem is that it is full from the bottom board up through to the inner cover with brood with no room for them to grow...The hive is already stacked 5 boxes high, all 8 frame mediums.


This sounds like a tale.
The brood between the frames is most likely drones and that doesn't mean that the rest of the frame is full of brood unless you looked. Judging on what I did up here you could split in your area now. Let's say you are right and there is 5 boxes full of brood they are not going to swarm until the brood hatches and gets backfilled with honey. There can't be any honey if they are all filled with brood.

If and when you split look for open brood not capped brood and put at least one box each to each half. There should be at least two boxes with open brood for medium size boxes. If the hive is doing as well as you say there will be three boxes.

After you split keep watch on the hives. The one that appears as though noting happened will likely have the queen. The one that goes dormant will likely not have a queen.


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

If I were in your situation, I would look into obtaining a new queen for the split. If you can find a mated queen, that would be even better.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I recommend putting off splitting a couple more weeks. When there are plenty of dandelions and mature drones, then do your split. Having a queen to put w/ the queenless half is a good idea. But, the queenless half, as long as there are eggs, should be able to raise its own queen.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

There is no dandelions in TN yet? We are having a beautiful winter this spring...


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

Take your cues from the bees - if they haven't started cells yet, then don't split. Try to give them more room by inserting some empty frames in between frames of brood.


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

Are you a member of a local bee club? Is there a mentor you could ask to come over and take a look with you? I think someone walking you through this in person would be worth a thousand words.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Acebird said:


> There is no dandelions in TN yet? We are having a beautiful winter this spring...


Thanks. I always appreciate a good line.


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## Coach B (Feb 28, 2011)

Acebird said:


> There is no dandelions in TN yet? We are having a beautiful winter this spring...


It snowed here in TN Tuesday and got into the teens at night. But....we do have a few dandelions starting to appear!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Saturday we are suppose to get 2 inches of snow accumulation and a high of 45. Last night they had a forecast of 50 for a high on Saturday. Don't you love it?


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Maybe the flow might be just beginning here. I have seen lots of daffodils and some budding on trees. It's just that I would rather it be in full swing before doing this.

I did the split this evening. I did the technique with the frames like dealing a deck of cards between the parent hive and the one going away. That's to assure some of everything went into both hives. I saw some of just about everything, capped brood, open brood, lots of capped drone cells and some open honey cells. I can't say I saw any queen cells. 

The half that's going away now has the bees sealed in. I decided it's going out at the farm this weekend on a position already set up. There is another hive there near by.

This wasn't the first time I have done a split but was the first 50/50 I have done. 
Hilreal some guidance might have been helpful, but I do think I did fine on my own. I really don't believe I needed anyone walking me through it. 
There are soo many things that if I wouldn't do it without any help, they wouldn't get done. This was certainly one of them. 
This is my 4th year of bee keeping.

Acebird I can always certainly expect such snide comments from you such as accusing me of being on here telling a tale and about the dandelions up your way too., And the brood between the frames, some might have been drone brood but defiantly not all of it was. What does that have anything to do with anything? Most the capping s in that between the frames burr comb didn't look like it but a few of them did. Every single frame in the hive was occupied and that is what had me concerned.

Now I will say that I didn't know anything about that the bees won't swarm until there is back fill in the brood chamber.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Tons of drones oriented yesterday in my yard. All hives have plenty of fresh nectar and pollen, and there is a week of good foraging weather in the forecast, and dandelions just blooming. If I had a hive that I was worried about swarming I would go ahead and split it.


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## smilinpossum (Oct 27, 2011)

David...what *exactly* are they getting nectar from over your way?
I am between Scottsville KY and Lafayette TN....I moved 2 years ago (I have asked the admin twice how to change my location....they have yet to reply with an answer/ instructions on how to do that..) and I see nothing here...no redbuds...nothing..just the daffodils/ jonquils...and I think I have seen 2 dandelions since the first of March...
I do see my bees bringing in pollen, but they have emptied my top feeder twice since the first of March (I only fill it halfway), so I will continue to feed for another couple of weeks...I just don't feel confident/ think that the honey flow has started *here* yet..
I remember hearing at a couple of bee meetings that there is a thing called "candling" that pine trees do..and the old timers at the bee meeting say that when you see that, the flow *has* started (not that pine trees have nectar..it just happens at about the same time, they say).
So, that's what I have been going by..
My latitude may be *slightly* more north than you...so....~shrug~


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

The main nectar source so far has been maple.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LampBurner said:


> It's just that I would rather it be in full swing before doing this.


I thought about this for quite sometime before I did an early split. The hive that ends up with the queen has no issues. I felt it would be better for build up if the queenless hive had the full flow to build up rather then wait until max flow and lose one or two weeks of the flow was my thinking.


> Acebird I can always certainly expect such snide comments from you such as accusing me of being on here telling a tale


So sorry. I did not mean it in a snide way.



> Every single frame in the hive was occupied and that is what had me concerned.


Again, I am not sure what you mean by occupied. Solid brood from top to bottom means to me that there is no honey, pollen or empty cells. I can't imagine a hive of 4 or 5 medium boxes existing like that. A hive that has drones in the burr comb between frames is an indication that your frames are all drawn from worker foundation. A mistake I did early on myself.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Aww gee Acebird if so I guess my bad. It's unfortunate that sometimes I just take people wrong.

Well, I figure if all goes well with the queen-less hive, by the time they produce another queen and she goes on her mating flight the flow should be in full swing.
By the difference in the hum of the two hives I think the queen did end up in the half going away as I understand it's best. The split hives hum is quiet and content and the parent hive's hum is more of a loud distressing howell, which kind of distresses me, but I did what I thought was best anyway. 
I would like to put another queen in that hive but not "just a queen", but another Russian. 
Walter Kelley said they all sold out of packages and queens very early for the year this year. Packages I can understand, but queens are mass produced so I don't quite understand why they would so quickly sell out of queens for the year without anymore till next year.

When I used the term "occupied" I did use it very loosely. To be more specific, I saw lots of capped brood, and what I thought was an abnormally high amount of capped drone brood (in the frames), some larva, sections of open cells which I honestly assumed to be recently laid eggs. I have still not yet been able to see any eggs even with a magnifying glass since I have been beekeeping. There was a few frames of open honey in the top box that I think was what I left them to overwinter on that they were in-process of eating. Could it have been honey they were making? I just didn't think so this early.
So all the frames were occupied with those things and not empty comb or foundation for them to grow and the hive was 5 high.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LampBurner said:


> By the difference in the hum of the two hives I think the queen did end up in the half going away as I understand it's best. The split hives hum is quiet and content and the parent hive's hum is more of a loud distressing howell, which kind of distresses me, but I did what I thought was best anyway.


I would read it the opposite. The calm hive has the queen and the one that is howling is queenless.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Acebird I agree and that is what I meant. Maybe I might not have worded it all that clearly. Perhaps I might have left out a comma where there should have been one. I'll re write the 1st sentence of what you quoted what I originally wrote with a little bit of punctuation changes.

" By the difference in the hum of the two hives, I think the queen did end up in the half that's going away, as I understand it's best."

Do you still interpret that as opposite what we both agree on?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LampBurner said:


> Do you still interpret that as opposite what we both agree on?


This is the confusing part for me:



> the parent hive's hum is more of a loud distressing howell,


The "parent" hive imply's the half that has the queen, not the placement of the hive.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

LampBurner said:


> When I make the split I'm not going to know which half has the queen and which half doesn't, so there won't be buying another queen and putting in there.


In all likelihood they are not going to swarm at any minute. No way you have a nectar flow on yet. Not much of one anyway.

Are you simply going to separate boxes w/out looking for the queen? If so, make sure each half(?) has as equal parts honey, capped brood, eggs and larvae, and bees as you possibly can.

A week later, look through both halves and the half w/ queen cells being built doesn't have a queen. Yet.


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## 22DPac (Jun 24, 2012)

I think the issue is that there is a disconnect between both for message conveyed and message received. No need to really be concerned with those things, at this point. The good thing is that two hives now exist and the girls will do what they can to produce a queen at the site without one. 

I hope the 50/50 split goes well!! Please let us know the outcome! :gh:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> This is the confusing part for me:
> 
> 
> 
> The "parent" hive imply's the half that has the queen, not the placement of the hive.


The way I read him, the parent hive is the part still left on the original hive location. This doesn't need to be a big deal.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> This doesn't need to be a big deal.


You, really a stickler for bee terms. I am not making a big deal out of it, it just caused some confusion.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I understood what he meant. He used the term properly. It's not like he misspelled a word or used the wrong word.

Maybe more properly the "parent colony", the colony which a subset of separate boxes of bees comes from. That would be the colony at location X being the parent colony of whatever is taken away.

You might want to argue about this, but I don't, that when a swarm issues from a hive taking w/ it the original queen, the parent colony is that part left behind.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> If so, make sure each half(?) has as equal parts honey, capped brood, eggs and larvae, and bees as you possibly can.


That doesn't always happen when you split by the box and I don't see why it matters. In a very short time they will not be equal anyway. The queenless hive will have way more honey, less bees and no brood. By dealing the deck statistically it should have what it needs. The real gamble is will the virgin queen make it back. If the queen doesn't make it back you basically have two choices. Add some eggs to try again or dump the hive.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> the parent colony is that part left behind.


OK I stand corrected. I am not use to the twisted logic.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What doesn't happen when you split by the box? Who splits by the box anyway? That isn't a very smart way to split if success is your goal. Is that what Lampburner plans to do? Simply take the top three boxes away w/out looking at the combs?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> OK I stand corrected. I am not use to the twisted logic.


When did the logic get twisted and where?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> When did the logic get twisted and where?


It doesn't make sense to me that the half that doesn't have the original parent would be called the parent hive. It is something I will have to try to keep straight. And yes people do split by the box but not the way you suggested which is why I suggested to the OP not to do it that way.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Simply separating boxes w/out knowing what is in them is foolish gambling. If one simply separated all 5 or six boxes hoping to have 5 or 6 walkaway splits, it's entirelly possible that one box will be full of honey, which won't produce anything while another may well be empty which won't produce anything either. And the other 3 or 4 might produce something, but it's still more of a gamble than actually doing beekeeping as I know it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> It doesn't make sense to me that the half that doesn't have the original parent would be called the parent hive. It is something I will have to try to keep straight. And yes people do split by the box but not the way you suggested which is why I suggested to the OP not to do it that way.


When you left home to start your own family, didn't your parent(s) stay behind?


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## Redbug (Feb 8, 2014)

I am new at this, too. 

So...if you split the hive and the one queen goes to one side or the other. The side that does not have a queen will make one. But, that will set that hive back about 30 days. I don't understand the big deal if the bees will requeen the hive with the resources they have.

If you go to the hassle of finding someone to sell you a queen, (which could be a PITA), you would be maybe 5 days(?) behind. 

Now if all you care about is honey production I guess it would knock you back about xx pounds of honey. But, as a hobbyist, who cares about xx pounds of honey? The real interest is with the bees. I think it is pretty neat to do a split and watch to see how the hive goes about requeening and getting on with hive life. Isn't that what the hobby is all about? I think it is a good way of learning and using the resources you have to get a good result. Just make sure each has honey and brood.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What's a PITA?

If you do what you describe in SC you might miss enough of the nectar flow that your bees will starve. Your nectar flows may be over by the end of May, if not sooner.


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## 22DPac (Jun 24, 2012)

I am guessing that PITA is pain the the (tail).


oops.... Pain in the*


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oh I guess my mind doesn't work that way. Thanks. If a beekeeper in Columbia,SC needs queens or queen cells I know a guy who has a lot of them. It's not really a PITA at all and a split would hardly be very far behind at all would one buy a queen before they split.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Back to the original post - the ten day forecast shows very good foraging opportunities throughout, and while the maple bloom is fading dandelion and ornamentals are ramping up, chances are your hive is going to be slammed full of nectar soon. If it is really as full of brood as you described a few days ago swarming is going to be very likely if you don't do something effective pretty soon, and it sounds to me like a 50/50 split is a good plan. I have a hive of cordovans in the same condition, but I think I'm just going to rob it to help some others catch up. But that is just another way to split.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

They would be behind the money they paid to get the queen with absolutely no guarantees.

Splitting by the box from a hive that has a lot of resources is not foolish IMO.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Splitting by the box from a hive that has a lot of resources is not foolish IMO.


'Splitting by the box' only makes sense if you '*know*' that both splits have either a queen/viable queen cell or the resources (eggs/young worker larva) to be able to raise a new queen - unless you add new queen from elsewhere.

Regardless of what resources an [unsplit] hive might have, if you make a split that has only drone eggs/drone larva or no worker eggs/young worker larva, the bees _cannot _raise a new queen and your split will fail. 

It seems to me that you don't have enough experience to *know* what is in each box, it would pay dividends to at least take a look in each box when dealing them out into separate splits.


:gh:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> They would be behind the money they paid to get the queen with absolutely no guarantees.
> 
> Splitting by the box from a hive that has a lot of resources is not foolish IMO.


You are entitled to your opinion as am I.

There is no gaurantee that you won't drop dead walking to your car. What does that have to do w/ anything? 

I can gaurantee a higher rate of successfully splitting a colony and having a viable colony if one does what I described before, equalizing brood and stores, finding the queen, and buying queens to install in queenless parts compared to separating the boxes willy nilly. That is hardly beekeeping in my opinion.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> That is hardly beekeeping in my opinion.


It may be but if you can't find the queen, or see eggs it is a viable way of splitting. And nobody said splitting the boxes willy nilly except you. There is a procedure that makes sense.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

There are things you can do if you can't find the queen and you don't need to be able to see eggs, just larvae.

"There is a procedure that makes sense." What is that, Brian?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I think Brian's procedure is contained in this thread he started a while ago ... _Split like crazy _


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> What is that, Brian?


http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#howmanysplits



> I say all of this, mostly because it's "the right thing to do", but really since I went to eight frame mediums and since I expanded to 200 hives, I just split by the box and I do nothing about drift. I put two bottom boards where ever there is room on the stand and "deal" the boxes like cards. "One for you and one for you". I add as much empty room as I have boxes full of bees (in other words I double their actual space). So if there are three boxes full of bees on each stand I add three empty supers with frames.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Is there a headshaking icon?


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

I live just a few miles east of lampburner and just now seeing a few drones flying. I personally would not do a walk away split this early. I had two hives that I found queenless last week and put a frame of open brood and eggs in each to keep them calm and got queens from Wolf Creek this Thursday. The queen is already released and the hive will be way ahead of what the hive would have been making a queen.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Is there a headshaking icon?


You can shake your head all you want Mark it works. And there is no easier way to split. You will like this one too, it requires no beekeeping skills at all.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> it requires no beekeeping skills as all.


I knew that would appeal to you. You seem to want to avoid gaining any beekeeping skills.

I was thinking about this some yesterday. Why do people keep bees? Deep down is it because they want to know what is going on inside that beehive? Because they have innate curiosity and a desire to know and understand something which appears hidden and mysterious? Many, if not most, people who are interested in bees are fascinated by bees. Bees and beekeeping stimulates the brain. Working bees gives one opportunity to experience "ah ha" moments not that common in the rest of ones life.

When I first saw an observation hive at the Smithsonian Museum in Washington,DC my parents had to drag me away to see other things. When I saw an abandoned hive in the corner of the orchard horse pasture I laid in the grass watching the bees come and go, wondering what was going on inside. What were they doing in there? Trying to remove the lid, long glued down by the bees I got stung and found out that it hurt, but that I could take it. It hurt, but not enough to keep me from coming back for more observation.

I don't see much, if any, of that in what appears to me to be separating a hives boxes willy nilly hoping they become queenright. I don't get it. Hopefully most people move on and actually acquire beekeeping knowledge and skill.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> You seem to want to avoid gaining any beekeeping skills.


I am the exact opposite of most newbies. Most newbies want bees as pets that they can micro manage to their death. I want bees because they are fascinating and afford me a good hobby where they can take care of themselves between the times that I cannot commit to. Most animals require a very regimented timing schedule that if you were not available they would perish. Bees are nothing like that. You can intervene if you want to or leave them alone if you choose. Probably the only other animal that you can do that with is a cat and they are not fascinating.

I feel I have time to learn and the rate that I am learning suits me just swell. Obviously it is not fast enough for you or you don't like what I am learning. Sorry.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Most animals require a very regimented timing schedule that if you were not available they would perish. Bees are nothing like that.


Actually they are. If you want your bees (or apples, or chickens, or children...) to flourish rather than just survive like a garden gone to weeds there are certain things that you need to do at certain times. Husbandry is learning what those things are, and when those times are, and accepting the responsibility to do them. If you want to get anything of worth out of those things you have to be willing to invest in them first.

You may not have to tend bees every day or even every single week, but if you ignore them at just the right time they will probably die. Unless you are an expert the main way to know when those times are is to get in there and look.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> You can shake your head all you want Mark it works. And there is no easier way to split. You will like this one too, it requires no beekeeping skills at all.


Here you go Ace, from a post Michael Bush made today on another thread: (straight from the horse's mouth - so to speak) 


Michael Bush said:


> The concepts of splits are:
> 
> You have to make sure that both of the resulting colonies have a queen or the resources to make one (eggs or larvae that just hatched from the egg, drones flying, pollen and honey, plenty of nurse bees).
> 
> ...


So, Ace, it seems to me that this part is particularly relevant to this discussion ...

_[HIGHLIGHT]"You have to *make sure* that both of the resulting colonies have a queen or the resources to make one [/HIGHLIGHT] (eggs or larvae that just hatched from the egg, drones flying, pollen and honey, plenty of nurse bees)."_​


:gh:

(click the blue arrow in the quote box to go to the original post/thread)


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Rader, Sqkcrk, and Ace,

Do you guys use wrestling scoring or another system? Two points for a takedown? One point for an escape?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Rader what is relevant is that the OP had 5 medium boxes and as stated brood in all of them. If he simply deals the deck he is reasonably assured that the queenless hive will have what it needs. A bare bones split is two brood frames, two honey and pollen frames and one empty. He will have much more than that splitting a four or five box hive.

Salty, it that a take down or an escape?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Rader what is relevant is that the OP had 5 medium boxes and as stated brood in all of them.


And how do you think that he determined that there was "_brood in all of them_"? :scratch:
Could it be that he actually _looked _in each box? :lpf:

:gh:



Saltybee, I can assure you that it is _impossible _to 'pin' Ace!


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Not all moves are scored, you only get an escape when you are almost pinned. Having noted the brood in all of them comment early on I cannot award you an escape on the specific case.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Having seen the continuation, I withdraw my joke. Leave me out . Please!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Ace, I don't know if you realize why people take exception to this whole line of reasoning - I can only speak for myself, but for me it is because every year our club recruits a bunch of brand new beekeepers. We dedicate a lot of time and effort into helping them learn and get started - we have classes, and apiary labs, and assign mentors - whatever we can to help beginners get a good start. 

Without a doubt the #1 reason that new beekeepers lose their bees - and often then get discouraged and quit - is because they don't make it a priority to work with their hives often enough. Before they know it their hives are too strong and swarm, or too week and get robbed to death - they go queenless and fail. The newbee blames it on wax moths - because they haven't cracked open the hive in two months and wax moths are all they find when they do. Hives don't fail from wax moths - they fail from neglect more often than not. 

So I really hate to hear anyone recommending any kind of hands off beekeeping. You may be the exception, but usually it doesn't work out - and too often people believe what they want to believe just because it is what they want. "The great thing about bees is that you don't really have to take care of them..."


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## bbrowncods (Oct 10, 2012)

```

```
David, I really find my experience much more enjoyable using the "ignore list" when reading threads like this - not worth the time responding.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> Without a doubt the #1 reason that new beekeepers lose their bees - and often then get discouraged and quit - is because they don't make it a priority to work with their hives often enough.


I think this statement is 100% WRONG. People get discouraged and quit because they are quitters they lack determination and I am not just talking about beekeeping.


> too often people believe what they want to believe just because it is what they want."


That statement is more correct. We very much agree here.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

A negative early experience can be very discouraging just like a positive one can give you confidence, but people enter into beekeeping expecting that they can get great results without feeding, treating, doing regular inspections, taking care when splitting, or really much of anything at all except eat their free honey. Usually more effort is required than that sounds like would be. But that is what they expect because they read all of that somewhere (in different places) on the internet. You hardly ever hear anyone talk about how it's hard work, much of which has to be done in the hottest weather possible while wearing a bee suit.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Just because something seems effortless doesn't mean it doesn't take effort.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

All I can say is that I am somewhat in aww as to where and how far this thread I originally started has gone.

I hope everyone did read toward the beginning how I made the split, the deck of cards method as I would call it. I am not sure that everyone has. 

To this point in the thread I have read every post and cannot quite decipher who's point is what. At first I could.

I think I might add that (not every frame had brood) as I saw recently posted. I hope it didn't state or imply that they did. If I did, pardon me. 
As I recall about 5 frames most of them toward the top had no brood but had honey. 2 of them were filled the area of the frames and the honey was open and in process of being eaten. 3 of them were from another hive that I recently lost, that the area of the frames consisted of roughly 1/2 honey was still capped and empty comb.

Lets not even go onto to the possible dangers I have heard of transferring honey from one hive to another. At least they were all my hives and not from somewhere else.

OH and to clear up any confusion as to which hive I was referring to as the "parent hive", what I called the parent hive was the part of the (now divided) colony that was still at the original location.

Which of the two ended up getting the queen is irrelevant to the terminology I used. If someone thinks of the parent hive as the one where the queen is, as in Acebirds case, I can now see the confusion. I'm not saying either thinking there is right or wrong. Just not everyone thinks alike.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> You hardly ever hear anyone talk about how it's hard work, much of which has to be done in the hottest weather possible while wearing a bee suit.


What? I hear that all the time. And I darn well believe it based on what little I do. The major, major difference between very hard work and not so hard work it making a living at it. Making a living at it is competition among beekeepers. If half the beekeepers dropped out the price of honey, and pollination would soar and that would change making a living at it to much easier for a short time until competition came back.



> A negative early experience can be very discouraging


So what? If you are determined it won't stop you. The person that can accept failure and move on is the one that will be successful. The person who gets lucky early on but still can't except failure will fail later on when it happens. It will be a far greater crushing blow because of the fool hardy confidence experienced in the beginning.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Acebird said:


> I think this statement is 100% WRONG. People get discouraged and quit because they are quitters they lack determination and I am not just talking about beekeeping.


I find this statement distasteful. It is arrogant to claim that quitting something has anything to do with a persons basic character.

I consider it more a matter of those that consider the cost and find it unworthy. Typically a person would read that and think how much money it costs. But in practice people seldom measure cost in dollars. they measure it in time and effort in comparison to reward.

Beekeeping as far as I can tell is consistent in providing less than suitable reward for the time and effort. it is a common comment by nearly every person I have spoken to in regard to bees. I see many many reasons for this but they area ll rooted in one central cause. beekeepers throughout history have failed to develop methods to their art that consistently render adequate reward. It is not like the expectation has been a mystery. ti is well known what every person that ever engages in beekeeping expects for their effort. Yet not once has beekeeping been capable of providing that.

So now is it a lack of determination on the new beekeepers part or lack of commitment on beekeeping as a whole. My definition of commitment is. "those things you do to make your desires a reality". I state that beekeeping as a whole desires sustainable and profitable methods of keeping bees. That they have not achieved it is evidence that they lack commitment. They have in fact had centuries to achieve it. If in those centuries beekeeping has not achieved this most consistent basic desire. what is it that it has been doing? I say it has engaged in something that looks very much like a snake oil enterprise.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Lampburner - sorry, but this is probably typical of long threads. They usually get farther off the longer they go. We should probably at least use the off topic icon.

Ace - like Daniel sez, lots of good reasons for quitting that don't make you a quitter. This isn't as fun as I thought and life is too short. This cost too much / takes too much time. This hobby has become tedious, and I'm ready to move on to something more interesting. It's not what I was told it would be. <<< All perfectly good reasons. Hanging on to something long after it stops working for you is not somehow virtuous.

DanielY - you throwing in the towel?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> I think this statement is 100% WRONG. People get discouraged and [HIGHLIGHT]quit because they are quitters [/HIGHLIGHT]they lack determination and I am not just talking about beekeeping.


So if you decide to leave one hobby -beekeeping, perhaps- it is because of a character deficiency? :s


Does that same concept apply to the model aircraft hobby as well? :scratch:


Acebird said:


> My last hobby was gasoline remote control helicopters.




:gh:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Sure there are lots of reasons to quit. First failure is not one of them.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

So far it's been too easy for me. I might get bored if this continues.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Is this your first spring with overwintered hives?


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> Is this your first spring with overwintered hives?


Of course it is.

/it was a joke.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> DanielY - you throwing in the towel?


No, Not me. I have hardly started.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Good.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> So if you decide to leave one hobby -beekeeping, perhaps- it is because of a character deficiency? :s
> 
> :gh:


I thought beekeeping indicated a character deficiency all on its own.

:ws:


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## Huntertn (May 3, 2012)

Mine have been bring in pollen for several weeks. Actually, I guess thay have bringing in a little pollen for a month. I went through my hive this Sunday and noticed nectar dripping out of some of the cells when I flipped them up to look for eggs. Based on what is around me I figured that the trees were the main source. The Red Maple started to bloom a couple of weeks ago and I have dandelion blooms this week. 

There were a few capped drones in my hive and I have seen a few drones on the landing board since the end of last week. 

This hive is stronger than I expected it to be and I was a little surprised at the number of bees I had when I went through it Sunday. Sounds like I have a similar situation as Lampburner. I am running all 8-frame mediums and I have some brood in 4 boxes. They had already filled and capped most of the bottom box (which I was going to reverse) when I checked it Sunday.

This hive was strong last year and I was happy to find this thread because I was thinking about a split but was concerned with the number of drones available.

Steve


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I thought beekeeping indicated a character deficiency all on its own.
> 
> :ws:


I think my wife is beginning to suspect as much.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Mine grudgingly thinks better of it since I started sharing honey proceeds with her. Just a few days ago she was asking me how many nucs I was planning to sell - with a gleam in her eye.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

That's definite progress!


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