# Ground treatment for small hive beetle



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I use diatomaceous earth. I get the kind for swimming pool filters. It is the same thing as the insecticide type but cheaper.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I found ground treatments a waste of money. I wouldn't expect SHB to be a huge problem in MD.


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

I havent...doesnt mean I wont. There are several products out there for drenching the ground. I try and catch them before they hit the ground with oil trays.
I'm not sure it'd help me in that I'm surrounded by a forest and there are melon farmers in the area.


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## rweaver7777 (Oct 17, 2012)

AstroBee said:


> I found ground treatments a waste of money. I wouldn't expect SHB to be a huge problem in MD.


Agreed. Think about it - if a SHB larva exited your hive and fell to the ground to pupate, you have bigger problems than the very few that will enter from under your hive compared to the hundreds that will fly in from miles around. The bigger problem is that you have a SHB problem inside your hive (hundreds) that the bees are not able to keep controlled. SHB larva eat and poop within the honey and it ferments. That patch of honey is repellent to the bees and they won't work it and won't clean it out. From that point it is a short path to total absconding.

Basically, larva exiting the hive is a symptom of a collapsing hive. Not from SHB but from whatever else is occurring such that the SHB can then take over. In most cases, SHB are opportunistic varmints and will grow to proportions to generate larva if the colony cannot patrol them. Around here in TN it is usually a high varroa count that tips the scales. If you give the bees too much space to cover you can have issues as well.

You'd be much more effective with screened bottom boards and oil traps underneath.

The only ones who benefit from ground treatments are those selling them. The only situation where I'd drench the ground is if a hive collapsed due to SHB and LOTS of larva hit the ground. It'd be nice to kill those that exited in that situation. But as a prophylactic treatment, don't waste your money.


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## JustinH (Nov 11, 2013)

My bees are very hygienic. I have the cleanest bottom boards. I don't think SHB larva ever have a chance to crawl out of my hives to the ground. I'm almost positive my bees carry off the larva and drop them where ever. So treating the ground in my case would be a waste. I did put down crushed limestone over weed fabric though at least 10 feet around the hives.


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

Its funny. In the summer I saw LOTS of SHB on the bottom board, but did not see any on comb or top bars. I think the bees ran them there and were keeping them there. I need to check how they are doing since the weather cooled. Also at that time there was no honey in the hive and I started feeding. Someone told me to add a cap of vinegar. I did we shall see how that looked. I did have a beekeeper tell me oregano oil, will keep SHB away, but I haven't tried it.


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

my area dose not have smhb-but today i took two betals to ag departmoent for idenifacation -there are many look alikes
get the betals in question looked at by AG--things gt tough some times-I elavated hives three feet from ground-and sprayed
with 50/50 mathition--these where three from fiftey packges i bouht localliy --pacages have been thrving in yards wit no trace of shb-some times they are not shb-some times I 
just pull my hair out trying to do good-the suplier for the packages is last on my list--many question can be brought fore front
with this topic--AG sent the betals to a lab -that speaks for itself-atlest i will get a strat answer--RDY-B


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## gjt (Jul 24, 2014)

Thank you all for your feedback.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

I have treated the ground around my hives, both with granular and liquid insecticide. We see fewer and fewer hive beetles since treating. Only see them in weak hives now. For you who have all the answers, I remind you that all beekeeping is local. There are areas where the SHB is a big problem.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

I don't know if this works at all, but read somewhere where a beekeeper sprinkles wood ashes on the ground around his hives for SHB. Anyone try this??


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Lburou said:


> I have treated the ground around my hives, both with granular and liquid insecticide.


What did you use to treat?


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

SNL, I'll use any insecticide that treats anything that crawls (sometimes a broad spectrum ant poison). At the same time, the SHB larva can crawl further than my application. The bees at my house are on a stand surrounded by one inch rock, so, after a rain, the rocks are washed clean. My beetles arrived in a couple NUCs three years ago. Their numbers are steadily going down, of course most of these hives are mature now and can fend off SHB and wax moths. 

For the weaker hives and mating NUCs, nothing does better than squashing every beetle you can find. Will take every frame out, clean the bottom board and inspect each frame for beetles and larva. That does the most good over time for me. Whenever there is a question of ripe eggs, I freeze the frame.

Next time I see beetles, I'll use one of BeeWeaver's beetle sheets. We'll see how they work.



P.S. I read that the SHB grew up on ripe and decaying vegetable matter, like melons and squash. The beetles can raise a cycle of brood on those types of crops. Its been reported that the small hive beetle can smell a bee hive for 10 miles. No way to defend against that except for having a strong hive.


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## rweaver7777 (Oct 17, 2012)

Lburou said:


> SNL, I'll use any insecticide that treats anything that crawls (sometimes a broad spectrum ant poison).
> 
> Its been reported that the small hive beetle can smell a bee hive for 10 miles. No way to defend against that except for having a strong hive.


You don't have any bees landing on the ground in front of your hives? Every time I visit I see one or two on the ground for whatever reason and they eventually take flight and go back in. I think they'd take the poison back when the re-enter the hive.

You may be indeed killing those SHB larva that exit your hive but it's still too late. You lost the battle with that SHB that laid that egg inside the hive.

We're in SHB heaven country here - hot and humid in the summer, with a long summer, and varroa can weaken the hive over that period of time, and then SHB take over from there. It's not a pretty sight to see a hive abcsond and leave thousands of SHB behind. Except for one SHB on top of an inner cover, this year all other SHB I've seen are in my oil traps under the SBB. I certainly find a bunch in the traps, and even a frame-by-frame inspection does not turn up any SHB. I know there are probably some there, but not enough to hurt and the bees have them corralled where they can't lay.

My post was also to show you CAN defend against SHB's flying in from the neighborhood with an oil trap in the bottom. That's where mine are coming from in all likelihood.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

rweaver7777 said:


> .....You don't have any bees landing on the ground in front of your hives?.....


Not many at all. I don't see them going back into the hives either. The rocks on the ground are not appealing to the bees. Your point about the risk to the hives when you treat the ground around them is a good point, its a matter of survival for me where I live along a River bottom. 

I believe you when you describe the robust population of SHB, some beekeepers in my area have had the same plague of SHB. But, I think there are probably 10,000 ants for each hive beetle here in Texas!  That is the primary reason I treat the ground. The three hives I let make honey this year on that one stand averaged 9 gallons of honey each, so I don't think treating the ground has hurt them much. I hope your bees winter well rweaver7777


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## rweaver7777 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ants, now that's another story. I'm seeing more and more, but none inside the hive. Some crawling outside and inside my hive-top feeding area. I'd love to be able to have a 4-legged stand so I could put the legs in something I could put water in (a moat to keep the ants away). I haven't had the time to build the stands yet, and everything commercial is way too expensive.


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