# why telescoping covers...



## cdanderson (May 26, 2007)

I understand why commercial folks use migratory covers but why do the rest of us use the telescoping cover. They're a pain in the butt to build..for me at least


----------



## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

They keep the rain , wind, and all foul weather out of your hive. You don,t want your hive filling with rain all the time, The over hang keeps out inclimate weather. Just like soffits on a real home.


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I like telescoping covers as they seem to fit better and do not allow another way for the bees to get out!


----------



## cdanderson (May 26, 2007)

Thank you...those are good points. I can definately understand the rain problem and I can just see that a nice board might warp and cause more entrances that I have in mind. Guess I'll have to learn how to bend that flashing after all.


----------



## randydrivesabus (Apr 27, 2006)

if theres a sheet metal shop nearby i dont see it costing much to get it bent professionally. i've never had much success doing it myself without a break...it comes out unprofessional looking.


----------



## Benton2569 (Feb 26, 2007)

*alternative cover top*

A friend of mine worked at a print shop and uses a heavy duty vinly to cover his tops. You could also that rubber membrane that commercial / residential roofers use (one side is adhesive).


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I'm more into functionality and not worried so much as to whether the metal looks nice. I wish I had a break, but I go with what I can afford....which is a rubber mallet and a straight edge.


----------



## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

"I understand why commercial folks use migratory covers but why do the rest of us use the telescoping cover."

Not all of us use telescopic covers. With small hive beetles, I find telescopic covers and inner covers to be a big problem area. I know other beekeepers who feel the same. We use migratory covers, and have no issues with rain, and normal weather. Migratory covers seem to stay on the hives better in high winds, I build my covers so that I can place feeders on top of them and feed the hives whenever needed.


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Those are good points panhandle. 

I do like the fact that you can drill holes into the migratory sovers and place feeders on them any time.


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

why telescoping cover... why that's how grandpa did it, and ain't that reason enough?

with strong bees I have never seen any problem in regards to rain or weather with migratory covers and since you can nail down a migratory covers this keeps extreme winds from blowing them off. studies suggest that bees have been successfully overwintered at elevation and fairly far north (properly wrapped for certain) with migratory covers.

the realy downside of migratory covers... see panhandles comments.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

cdanderson said:


> I understand why commercial folks use migratory covers but why do the rest of us use the telescoping cover. They're a pain in the butt to build..for me at least


Build a migratory cover like you see in my pics and you'll be happy and stress free.... 

How many people here recommending telescoping tops have run a decent number of migratory tops thru cold winters? They work fine for me. I haven't noticed any water entering the hives.

I don't wrap my hives either. I have in the past and didn't notice any difference between wrapped and unwrapped hives. 

Keep it simple. You don't need to bend metal for them and the covers are quite sturdy if you use 3/4 exterior grade plywood.

Telescoping tops are unecessary. I have probably 15-20 of my hives with telescoping tops because they are still in good condition and are still functional. The rest of my hives have migratory covers. I'll never make another telescoping top! I can get ten tops out of a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Then I use scraps of 1x? to make cleats.


----------



## cdanderson (May 26, 2007)

Dan..

you dont use any sheet metal covering on top of the plywood ? Maybe I am getting a false sense of security but it seems that exposed wood would break down alot faster ? I do like your design though.

I do wonder about that vinyl covering that Lowes has. I wonder how long it would last without splitting .

I dont have a problem building the tele cover itself but putting the flashing on so it doesnt look like crap and not slicing my hand .


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

cdanderson said:


> Dan..
> 
> you dont use any sheet metal covering on top of the plywood ? Maybe I am getting a false sense of security but it seems that exposed wood would break down alot faster ? I do like your design though.
> 
> ...


I don't paint my covers anymore. I hot dip them in paraffin/rosin. I do have some migratory covers that I painted and put on the hives 3 years ago and they look perfectly fine. My hot dipped covers will probably last much longer between retreatments compared to the painted ones but the painted ones appear to be holding up well so far.

Frankly if you only have a couple of hives then no matter what you do its really not a big deal. When dealing with alot of hives simpler becomes much easier and much more cost effective.


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Dan:

Excuse me for the of lack woodworking terminaology. 

For the migratory tops, you can get ten out of a 4 x 8 sheet you say. 

do you have pictures of the lids? Would make it easier than trying to explain it to me.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Chef Isaac said:


> Dan:
> 
> Excuse me for the of lack woodworking terminaology.
> 
> ...


Chef the only pictures I have of the lids are on the link to my flickr account near my signature. 

Basically I cut them 16 1/4" wide and around 20.5" long so I have a little overhang front to back. You can measure them out on a 4x8 sheet and just figure out the best way to cut them out by using a pencil and straight edge....


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Dan's are nicer than mine. I don't bother with the cleats anymore, just flat plywood cut to fit. It has rained more this year than any in memory and no problems with lids blowing off or water in hives. Even with the tops propped up for ventilation, the bees propolize them to the point that wind is no problem at all. We have fairly regular 60-80 mph thunderstorms and I haven't lost a top this year.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Ross said:


> Dan's are nicer than mine. I don't bother with the cleats anymore, just flat plywood cut to fit. It has rained more this year than any in memory and no problems with lids blowing off or water in hives. Even with the tops propped up for ventilation, the bees propolize them to the point that wind is no problem at all. We have fairly regular 60-80 mph thunderstorms and I haven't lost a top this year.


The only reason I use cleats is so I can close off the upper entrance when running pollen traps or with weak hives and or when feeding thru the cover. 

Duct tape would do the same thing but its something else to have to remember. This way I can just slide the lid forward or backward depending on what I want to do.

Flat sheet of plywood would probably warp more quickly I would think but would still be perfectly fine especially if a dado was cut into one side allowing an upper entrance which is especially critical for cold climates.


----------



## Aisha (May 2, 2007)

Panhandle Bee man said:


> Not all of us use telescopic covers. With small hive beetles, I find telescopic covers and inner covers to be a big problem area.


In Texas heat, I really need the ventilation of the inner cover hole with a propped telescoping cover. I put a simple screen mounted on a frame (a cheap picture frame would work) over the hole. I like the portability of a frame that you can take on or off.

You can see in this photo that small hive beetles get trapped in it because they smell the honey through the screen, and then you can smash them easily because they can't run past the sides of the frame.


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Dan Williamson said:


> "...Then I use scraps of 1x? to make cleats."


Why do you find it necessary to make the top half of the cleat? If you were to make the cleat flush with the top of the cover, wouldn't that be satisfactory? Just curious. I made a few for my NUCS without the top cleat, and can't figure out the value of a Top Cleat... I glued the lower cleat and screwed it in place with 2 inch screws.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Jeffzhear said:


> Why do you find it necessary to make the top half of the cleat? If you were to make the cleat flush with the top of the cover, wouldn't that be satisfactory? Just curious. I made a few for my NUCS without the top cleat, and can't figure out the value of a Top Cleat... I glued the lower cleat and screwed it in place with 2 inch screws.


Its not necessary. I have a couple that are exactly as you mentioned. I do it mainly because I am cutting a 3/8" groove in one end and it gives it more strength there. I also feel that it is another resister to warping. It gives me more glueing screwing space in which to attach the vertical cleat. You could completely eliminate that one if you wanted to but it may not be as strong. 

Another reason I like the top cleat is that I can turn the migratory cover upside down stack honey supers and using my hand truck wheel them into the extracting room etc. The 3/4" space allows my Kelley nose truck to easily slip underneath a stack of supers sitting on an inverted migratory lid.

Not necessary just adds more functionality for me.

I have some with top cleats and no vertical side cleats. I have some with no top cleat and a vertical side cleat attached to the bottom of the board with screws and the rest like that in my picture. I also have a few with a cleat running down the middle of my top whenever I've had a board decide to really go whacko warping on me. (Usually wood I've let sit in a damp place all winter before making my lids)

I prefer the ones in my pictures as they are the most functional for MY needs. There are multiple ways to make a migratory top... just like others have mentioned with a simple piece of plywood and NO cleats.


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't bother with a dado. I just prop the lid with a stick. When I want to close it, take the stick out. I find that there is plenty of ventilation, even in Texas heat, with the lid propped up a 1/4" or so. It gives ventilation around 3 sides.


----------



## Trapper (Jun 19, 2005)

Dan, 10 migratory out of a 4x8 sheet of plywood ? So I guess your cost would be around 3.00 apiece ? Looks like a telescoping cover is around 11.00 and a inner cover is around 6.50 Seems to me you are saving around 14.50 per hive. Its strating to sound good. Jim


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Trapper said:


> Dan, 10 migratory out of a 4x8 sheet of plywood ? So I guess your cost would be around 3.00 apiece ? Looks like a telescoping cover is around 11.00 and a inner cover is around 6.50 Seems to me you are saving around 14.50 per hive. Its strating to sound good. Jim


Well its slightly more than that. If you want to figure up the true cost you have to figure your labor, the screws, the glue, the cleats, and the galvanized cover I use for my feed ports. Its still alot cheaper than buying them.

If you just use a flat sheet of plywood then the cost is obviously even lower. It doesn't take much labor to cut out the 10 lids.


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Ross said:


> I don't bother with a dado. I just prop the lid with a stick. When I want to close it, take the stick out. I find that there is plenty of ventilation, even in Texas heat, with the lid propped up a 1/4" or so. It gives ventilation around 3 sides.


Just a question or two on an old thread that I was searching for. Ross, you say you just prop the lid with a stick. I could see where I would have prop'd lids all summer...unless I had a decent upper entrance in the box. You don't use an inner cover, do you? Also, if you use a stone or brick or weight of some kind on top.....do the covers bend/warp at all? Or maybe you just flip them over from time to time and the weight straightens them out again....

And, please...anyone feel free to comment, I was just directing my comment to Ross's post.

Just thinking about it. I'm going to cut a boat load of covers, 10 per sheet of plywood shortly. The cost savings is just too much to overlook by buying telescoping covers. Thanks, J


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't weight mine. The bees stick them down pretty quick. If you cut to fit, there is no lip for the wind to get under and pry them off. 3/4" ply is heavy enough anyway. I use 1/2" and even 1/4" if I have it laying around. You'll get some warps. Since I prop lids anyway, it's not a problem, just more ventilation (and a place to pry them up). The bees will close up the gaps in the fall. I don't do inner covers, never saw a need here. I keep a bunch of solid ones and a bunch with 2" holes in them for feeding. If you have one with a hole and don't want it, just lay a piece of scrap wood over it. The bees will stick it down too.


----------



## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

$20 worth of fiberglass resin (polyester) will coat a lot of hive tops and last a long time
if you wanna go Cadillac use epoxy

Dave


----------



## WVbeekeeper (Jun 4, 2007)

I've rented bending brakes before, not for lids but for doing soffit and fascia 
work. There is an equipment rental place nearby that will rent one for like $30 a 
day. If I get it on a Saturday he usually don't charge for Sunday when he 
closed. For those that don't know, this is a brake.
http://doitbest.com/Tools+for+vinyl+siding-Van+Mark+Prod._+Inc.-model-M-1060-doitbest-sku-113603.dib
I've learned to bend the coil stock or flashing with a framing square and few 
clamps.

>In Texas heat, I really need the ventilation of the inner cover hole with a 
propped telescoping cover.

I'm sure it doesn't get as hot here as it does there, but propping up the lid sure
does help cure the honey a little faster with the extra ventilation.


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Ross, thanks for answering. I apprreciate your response.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

revised msg.


----------



## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Um, so when feeding through migratory covers, how does one keep the jar in place? If you put a box around it and another cover, why not feed on the topbars add the box and use just one cover? I would think if wind didn't make quick work of the jars then ***** would (or pick your local villainous critter).


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't use a jar, I use a 2 gallon plastic paint bucket from HD. It sits on top just fine. It has holes drilled in the lid and the bees can reach it just fine. I don't bother with a box to cover it.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I do the same thing Ross does. Actually the weight of 2 gal of syrup is pretty heavy. By the time it is gone the bees have propolized the buckets to the top.


----------



## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

That makes sense, don't know why I've been so married to jars. Maybe it's the closet of them I have for canning .


----------



## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

*Plastic Telescoping Covers*

I started using plastic outer covers from W. T. Kelley's in the 1970's after I got tired of ants taking up residence under the flashing of my wood covers. I also used the plastic inner covers, but prefer the way wooden inner covers absorb moisture and I think the bees like the wood better, so I have been using plastic outer covers and wood inner covers ever since. With that said, the plastic outer / telescoping covers are the best around. They hold up great to UV rays and you can drive a truck over them. The only problem is that they won't fit polystyrene hives (BeeMax). So if you use Beemax they won't fit. They will however fit the 7/8" thick wood boxes from sources like BetterBee.

The W.T.Kelley plastic covers let me throw them on the ground and stack supers on them when I'm inspecting the hives. I also use them to act as bottom covers when I load full supers in my truck since dragging them and using dollys won't hurt them.

THEY ARE THE BEST! NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

-ekrouse


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

They should be.....


> 49-1 - 1 Plastic Outer Cover $19.75


----------

