# How is the use of Bt considered



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i use it, but only on drawn comb that i put in swarm traps since that comb is vulnerable until a swarm moves in. so far i have been able to keep any comb not in a hive in the freezer for protection and i don't bother spraying it. if i had a bunch of comb that i couldn't fit in the freezer i would use bt to protect it until i could get in into a hive.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

In terms of this _Treatment Free forum_, per the sticky at the top of the thread listing, Bt is considered a treatment for the purposes of this forum. 

You can navigate to that thread and see the complete list for yourself, or here is a shortcut:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?253066-Unique-Forum-Rules


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

graham is correct, as usual. 

bt is a comb treatment, not a bee treatment, and it beats the heck out of moth balls.

as precious as drawn comb is, and considering the bees can't take care of stored comb on their own since there are no bees on stored comb, being a pragmatist vs. a purist makes a lot more sense.

in times like these it's not easy being a squarepeg, but someone's got to do it.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Amen


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## diymom (Apr 8, 2016)

I Don't think moth balls work as a deterrent for much if you were serious, they don't work to deter moths from clothes or insect collections. 
What is bt? On the forum rules it says bacteria, does it just make your comb moldy?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i've never used them but some folks use moth balls to protect their honey supers when they store them over winter.

bt is short for 'bacillus thuringiensis aizawai'. you can read about it here:

http://www.valent.com/agriculture/products/xentari/


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

squarepeg said:


> in times like these it's not easy being a squarepeg, but someone's got to do it.


I was thinking about your "handle" today during my visit. The more I think about it, the more I like it. I've always marched to my own beat too so I guess the term squarepeg would fit me pretty well too, but you've already got that name so I'll just be Brad Bee.


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## diymom (Apr 8, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> i've never used them but some folks use moth balls to protect their honey supers when they store them over winter.
> 
> bt is short for 'bacillus thuringiensis aizawai'. you can read about it here:
> 
> http://www.valent.com/agriculture/products/xentari/


Aaaaa! I didn't know what that was at all. Glad I asked. 
There are a lot of entomological type pest deterrents that work well in collections...but all are chemically derived. Nobody in entomology relies on moth balls because they are ineffective against moths and beetles. I can't imagine them working well for comb storage. 
Does anyone try cedar or other type repellents like orange oil or crushed marigolds? I know a lot of natural substances deter insects quite successfully.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Paradichlorobenzene is effective as a moth repellent if it is placed in a closed area. Stack some supers, add a tablespoon of crystals, seal the stack, check on them in 3 months and repeat the tablespoon if needed. I do not like the smell of PDB and neither do the bees. Supers must be open stacked for a few days or even a week or two to dissipate the smell. It is absorbed into the wax to some extent.

BT is effective if it is the right strain. You claim a great deal of knowledge about insects yet do not know what BT is? BT works only in the stomach of lepidoptera which has a high PH digestive system. It is considered an organically acceptable method to control cabbage loopers and for other vegetables attacked by various members of the moth/butterfly family. Given a choice, I would use BT on stored combs every time. The only negative is that the bees have to scrub out the cells thoroughly before they will use them. With that said, I have not used BT for wax moth control though I have it around for use in the garden.


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## diymom (Apr 8, 2016)

Fusion_power said:


> Paradichlorobenzene is effective as a moth repellent if it is placed in a closed area. Stack some supers, add a tablespoon of crystals, seal the stack, check on them in 3 months and repeat the tablespoon if needed. I do not like the smell of PDB and neither do the bees. Supers must be open stacked for a few days or even a week or two to dissipate the smell. It is absorbed into the wax to some extent.
> 
> BT is effective if it is the right strain. You claim a great deal of knowledge about insects yet do not know what BT is? BT works only in the stomach of lepidoptera which has a high PH digestive system. It is considered an organically acceptable method to control cabbage loopers and for other vegetables attacked by various members of the moth/butterfly family. Given a choice, I would use BT on stored combs every time. The only negative is that the bees have to scrub out the cells thoroughly before they will use them. With that said, I have not used BT for wax moth control though I have it around for use in the garden.


I have been a hobby entomologist for two decades. I am not working in the entomolocal field for the usda or something like that. I do have a good amount of knowledge about many insect orders and species within them, often from rearing the insects or studying their behaviors etc within their habitat. Knowledge of bt specifically has not been pertinent to my activities until now. I asked because I wanted to know, thanks.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Fusion - curious now, how do you store your comb? Are you using moth balls/crystals?

diymom - we used moth crystals in collections back when I was in college. Just have to change them every 2 or 3 months is what I was told. 

Radar - Sent you a PM, if you get a chance give me an answer. Didn't want to start a brawl again in the TF forum.


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## Swarmhunter (Mar 5, 2015)

Are wax moths a problem through all the states? I store my drawn comb in my garage from Fall through late Spring. Do the moths look to get into the garages ? Average temps in garage- 45 to 50 degrees except warmer in late Spring. Wondering what to watch for. N.E. Iowa.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

diymom said:


> I Don't think moth balls work as a deterrent for much if you were serious, they don't work to deter moths from clothes or insect collections.
> What is bt? On the forum rules it says bacteria, does it just make your comb moldy?


BT is a spore forming bacteria that you will find in any sample of dirt from your yard or garden. There are many stains of BT and most are quite specific as to which species of insects they attack. All stains work the same, the difference is the toxin they produce. BT produces a protein toxin that attacks the cells in specific insects digestion system. Killing these cells stops the insect from functioning and also provides an entry point for the bacteria into the insect which then multiply like mad in the insect. When the insect dies the bacteria form spores and wait in the environment to be ingested by another insect. Tests of the insect toxic proteins on mammals and humans show them to be of no consequence at all if ingested in reasonable amounts. Like anything, ingestion of unreasonable amounts can lead to symptoms. Remember, even water is lethal if you drink too much too fast. Several people a year die in the US from drinking too much water too fast. The dose makes the poison.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Swarmhunter said:


> Are wax moths a problem through all the states? I store my drawn comb in my garage from Fall through late Spring. Do the moths look to get into the garages ? Average temps in garage- 45 to 50 degrees except warmer in late Spring. Wondering what to watch for. N.E. Iowa.


45 to 50 degrees F should suffice to keep the moths at bay IF they haven't already started laying in the comb. Generally the whiter and more pollen free the comb and the cooler you can store them the better. To be safe, though, assume nothing. Check them regularly, wax moth can be stealthy and can do tremendous damage in a short period of time. The warning signs are little web trails in dark comb, if you turn on the lights in a darkened room and see adult moths flying, assume there may already be damage in an advanced state.


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