# Ontario Blueberry Pollination



## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

Ian said:


> I just recently spoken to a producer who was telling me about the possible blueberry pollination opportunity in Northern Ontario. By the sounds of it they will need to be aggressive to drum up enough hives to satisfy their pollination requirements. Looking at a May-June pollination time frame.
> 
> Whats the word out there from my fellow Canadian beekeepers!


Ian,

Times have changed and the dollar figure is larger but I used to do pollination with my dad in the Greater Vancouver area in the late 80's early 90's. We ran up to 500 hives and did Raspberries, Cranberries, and Blueberries. I can honestly say it probably isn't worth it for less than $125-$150 a hive. Back then we were lucky to get $20-$30 bucks a hive. 

It is really subjective and I don't know the geographical area or the farmer you will be working for but as I recall:

Farmers could care less about your bees. 
Farmers will spray when and where they feel like it regardless of your bees or the people (I have been sprayed while trying to move hives).
Farmers will tell you 48 hours notice to move hives before they get your bees. After they get your bees you will get less than 12 hours notice to move them. 
Farmers will stall your payments or attempt to pay less than the agreed amount. 
Farmers think that your bees have to be 50 feet from what they are pollinating so they will make you spread hives all over the place and in silly locations. 
Farmers will hit your hives with spray booms and tractors, then they will deny everything and complain that your bees stung them or their workers.

Beekeepers in the area that specialize in pollination:
There will be bad ones.
They will have every disease imaginable.
They will steal your equipment and bees.
They will slag you and badmouth you as an intruder.
They will attempt to undercut you at every corner, hence the farmers wanting to pay less after the fact.

Barring all that, the honey from blueberries is nice but it is darker. 
Blueberries are probably the most valuable pollination crop for a beekeeper. The hives could make a super of honey if weather co-operates.
If the bees are not stressed too badly during transportation they will thrive. 

I'm no Deity in this forum with disciples interpreting passages of the bible based on my advice but this is my experience and opinion.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I mostly agree with Jodie. Growers are slightly more respectful towards beekeepers now. Demand for bees has gone up, supply has not quit kept up... so growers sorta have to play nice.

As far as blueberry pollination in Northern Ontario goes, I could be persuaded for the right money. I kinda thought low bush blueberry was end of may into mid to late June. The later dates coincide when guys should be putting on honey supers. The Manitoba beekeepers are closest and could service them but I would think they would loose 1-2 boxes of honey for their efforts. 

Ian, do you know if the farms are large? Hard to service the bees if they are scattered say 10 hours from home and 100 here , 50 there half hour away, another 70 there 1.5 hours away etc. Throw in a few bears in the mix, little to no nectar...pollination might not seem so easy anymore.

I agree with you Ian in that growers will need to be aggressive to attract beekeepers. Plenty of cash, possibly unloading beehives into the barrens, and loading hives back on the highway truck for the trip back home would help entice some. It is a different game than honey production. Many prairie beekeepers are stationary and are not really equipped to move bees for long hauls. Even though they may own forklifts there focus has been honey production and not pollination, so there would be a learning curve. The most obvious thing that comes to mind is the use of telescoping lids. They still seem to be very popular on the prairies but in my experience cause nothing but troubles when moving bees on long hauls.

I just do not see too many wanting in especially at $2.25/pound honey.

Jean-Marc


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

Jean Marc, 
I couldn't help but google you. I had heard of your apiary but I didn't put 2n2 together. I did find an article from the Georgia Straight from 2007.

http://www.straight.com/news/are-bcs-bee-colonies-latest-die

Funny how they mentioned neonics even back then. 

Could you attribute any of your losses cited in this article to pesticide in the blueberry fields or was it Nosema Ceranae?

By the way I have respect for anyone who makes a living down there in pollination. (You have my respect and admiration and so does Ian.)


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Jean-Marc , it apparently a grower from Nova Scotia and the size if operation apparently is huge. I say apparently because this is all second hand information. Large enough that they will not find enough hives.

As you mention Jean-Marc the biggest problem they will have is trying to convince beekeepers to sacrifice the start if their main flows, and with honey well north if $2, that's going to be a hard sell . 

All points for consideration;
The opportunity close to here. With the projected large number of acres they will have to be aggressive finding hives. The grower is one of the large operators in Nova Scotia so experience is an asset here. The time frame definitely doable for proper hive build up, end of May-June. I'd have two boxes of bees for sure by then .

You know, I'd make up a semi load of double deep 10 framers, two or three lbs of patties on top. I'd have to make sure they had a pail of feed into them. Get my $175 per hive and bring them back to the canola flow to recover to which I'd pull another two boxes of honey on. 
I think I'd do it.


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## PeterP (Feb 5, 2014)

The attached link will take you to studies and plans for development of the low bush blueberry industry in Northeastern Ontario. 
http://nsfc.ca/nsfc/ntfp/project-wild-blueberries
The potential is significant as are the challenges. It is 10-12 hours driving from most of Ontario's beekeeper community. Likewise from Manitoba. 

Regards Peter


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## marios (Nov 20, 2012)

Ian
that would be braggs i believe they go under oxford frozen food they have holdings in ontario. Braggs is a giant in the low bush blueberry in nova scotia i would bet half if not more of rented bees in nova scotia get rented to them and they have a few thousand of there own hives


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I would wonder at what price it would take to pull enough hives to pollinate that landscape


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Jodie: Back in 2007 I am pretty sure it was the start of the ccd thing. We had sudden unexplained losses of adult bees. Nosema Ceranae is definitely associated with this as are amoebas and protozoa's. My friend from Caspian Apiaries has been talking about this for the last 6 years. Funny thing , last year at the Alberta convention one beekeeper spoke of also having sky high amoeba levels in his bees. The bees are able to overcome these issues if being fed Caspian Solution along with a protozoa killer. It is an additive of plant extracts added to the Caspian solution.

Back to blueberry pollination, I think Ian answered his own question. $175 is the magic number for him.I think at that price some could be attracted. Keep in mind that northeastern Ontario is maybe 20 hours away by truck. Nova Scotia is probably 36 or so hours. 20 hours is far and bees, but 36 is another kettle of fish. At that time of year temperatures can get very warm, even hot. If going 36 hours the trucker would have to have 2 drivers. I think the fees would be steep. The aren't too many trucking outfits in Canada that have experience with this sort of thing.

However it plays out for you personally it is not the kind of undertaking that is too be taken lightly. I can guarantee that it would not be boring.

Jean-Marc


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

what is a" protozoa killer."....antibiotic?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jean-marc said:


> Back to blueberry pollination, I think Ian answered his own question. $175 is the magic number for him.


The way I see it, I would run a honey operation and a pollination operation. The honey op is what I have going now. The pollination op would be hives made up, wintered, worked to strength and sent for pollination for $175. Those hives then would come back in rough shape to where the canola will revive them, split and then have them worked into winterable hives to be used for pollination the following year. 
They would represent the same work as a nuc sale operation but the bees come back. Get some honey to boot. 

Transportation, and contracting out the hives handling would all have to considered.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

The protozoa killer is a plant extract which is highly acidic, combined with sea salt. Makes it difficult for unwanted microorganisms in the bees digestive to thrive.

Jean-Marc


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

With the current price of honey and the way you are able to stack the suppers on as shown in your pics I'm at a loss as to why are you even considering this. What is your yearly average. Long trips are hard on people and on bees. At the current price of honey 3 shallows off of a hive close to home out to more than equal your $175 offer. Ask $225 with a whimper in your voice and see if they bite. If the hook doesn't sink tell them to have a nice day and that you are open to offers commiserate with your lost opportunities back home.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I hear you Honey-4-All ! 

Consider this though, I'm running my honey operation at its max right now. Thats all I have got for now, 1000 hives honey production has me floored. If I can keep one of my guys in the brood nests and make up 600 nucs through the summer to supply a pollination contract, then that's 100 G's slapped on my lap for a bit of brood work. Guys will diversify their income with making up nucs for sale. This is exactly the same, other than we get the hives back. 

and ya, I like $225 better!

Just thinking out loud is all...


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Always looks and sounds easier before one gets on the riding side of the bull. If you have responsible help who can do it without hand holding go for it. How are you tapped out on the honey side of things?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

we will harvest 150000 - 200000 lbs in about four weeks, and if we dont it hardens in the comb... I need more honey equipment, more extracting equipment, more trucks, more help, more facility space, more hours in our 15 hour days...

dont get me wrong, Im not suggesting for a second pollination is easy , especially when I'd be sending them away for someone else to handle... I have zero experience here. But it is money that would stream from a different source, and it would help keep guys busy through out the first term of the seasons employment where as we wait for the work load of the flows.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

What % will you need to increase your workforce ( hours) and equipment to bump up your yearly gross by a mere 25%? If I had that much honey waiting to be made seem like a better investment would be found in trying to get the bottlenecks out of the Canola routine by what ever mean possible. I have heard this story countless times from prairie beeks. Its a problem that we in 5 kilo a hive California could only dream if we decided to take a wild LSD trip.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I think it's going to take quite a few years for this blueberry operation to develope the supporting pollination industry it's going to require. Great news for Ontario Beekeepers. 

It's going to be interesting to watch how this all unfolds...

Because as you know Phil, pollination is easy money right  lol


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I know I only have a small operation , but I am going for Blueberry pollination in NS and my price is staying @ 145.00 minimum . If I can't that price , they stay home .
And if you come to NS I hope to meet up with you someday.

Ben


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

jean-marc said:


> Throw in a few bears in the mix


Blueberries are a bear attractant. Talk to any of the numerous fly in fishing folks in that area, what happens to the outcamp if you let any garbage accumulate. Bear problems could be the elephant in the room for this gig.

Will the grower pay for hives placed in a yard that got hit by bears 3 weeks into a 4 week stay ? If the bees are killed by a spray, at least there is still empty equipment to haul home and start over with. A bear will turn a yard into a total write-off. Can you get by with portable fences ?



Ian said:


> if we dont it hardens in the comb... I need more honey equipment, more extracting equipment, more trucks, more help, more facility space, more hours in our 15 hour days...


On the flip side, there is lots of logging in the area between the blueberry patch and your home, it's just outside of the blueberry patch. Your bottleneck seems to be getting canola out of the combs before it crystalizes. If you are already set up with portable fences for the blueberries, dont bring them home right away. Set them in log patches after the blueberries, get a box or more of honey from the fireweed there. When the canola is done, truck em home. Fireweed honey can sit in the combs until the line is done with the canola. Start extracting fireweed when the canola is finished.

Maybe you dont need more equipment, honey that can be extracted outside of the time window for canola must have some appeal, particularily if blueberries already paid for the round trip.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> Blueberries are a bear attractant. Talk to any of the numerous fly in fishing folks in that area, what happens to the outcamp if you let any garbage accumulate. Bear problems could be the elephant in the room for this gig.


Solar electric fences work well. They have been doing that in Maine for years.


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## Yvesrow1 (Jan 27, 2013)

*FYI*

Northern Ontario has a lot of small operations but *nothing "pollination" for a beekeeper to make money with.*... Most farmers here exchange bee yard space for pollination with beekeepers living in more "urban" areas where restrictions (property size) don't allow them to keep bees at home.

Did someone mention bears? Yes we have an insane amount of bears, especially since the spring bear hunt has been cancelled. Last year set a new record, I seen 5 bears in three different areas of our yard at once. Not only do I have a real badass electric fence, I also have a spare fence charger & fuses in the equipment cabin just in case it fails on a civic holiday. It's bad.


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

Just open the border to bees on comb. We could come help solve some of these problems.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I am curious to know what Pollination Standards other places have for Blueberries, other than NS and NB .


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I apologize in advance for the dumb American question. 
What is "Northern Ontario"? 
Is it the area north of Pickle Lake latitude?
Or
Is it any thing north of Toronto/Lake Huron?

I may be closer to these blueberries than you!!!

Found this maybe it's of interest

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/hort/news/allontario/ao0213.pdf


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## PeterP (Feb 5, 2014)

"What is Northern Ontario?"

I would say north and west of Lake Nippising. I think Algonquin park is considered southern Ontario.

Peter


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben Little said:


> I am curious to know what Pollination Standards other places have for Blueberries, other than NS and NB .


Ben, when you say Pollination Standards, what standards are you targeting in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick ?


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Blueberry pollination standards. Our standards for Blueberries are >> 4 frames of Brood , 8 frames of Bees , 2 frames of Honey and pollen . 
I was only trying to find out if this was a common standard for the crop or what differences compared to other provinces.

Ben


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

What's the time frame your bees going into the Blueberry fields? NS, NB What is the going rate for an 8 framer?
Do you have a flow to catch afterwards? anyother revenue source ?


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

towards the end of May , it is always a wait and see game, sometimes the bloom is early and sometimes it is late. 
I think the average rate is 145.00 for the standard strength, but I imagine it will go up a little bit because of the higher demand from what I am getting from the other commercials I spoke with at the Annual meeting yesterday. 
I will get a flow after blueberries and be just fine  Lots of clover and goldenrod . I was thinking of doing Cranberries, but I will have to wait and see for that.

Ben


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

The standard is the same in B.C. 8 frames of bees , 4 frames of brood and 1 laying queen. This is a government issued standard. However, the contract for pollination is between 2 parties and the government has nothing to do with it. That being said 4 frames of bees could be contracted out for a lesser price than the "going rate". Those same 4 framers could be contracted out for more than the going rate if the beekeeper was a great negotiator and there was a shortage of bees. I would only caution beekeepers to make sure they provide what they agreed to in the contract.

Jean-Marc


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## marios (Nov 20, 2012)

In nova scotia we average 45 lb of honey so the 145 pollination is a must for commercial. ian your honey production is alot higher, we need both to survive


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Still preaching the Caspian Jean-Marc, it's alright, the stuff works good.

After that loss I had 2 years back due...Well...what ever it was, I can't help but think that what ever the hell happens when bees are in pollination has some kind of negative effect on them. Since I haven't been doing the pollination my bees have been supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. It's just stands to reason that if there are, and there likely will be, negative what evers (mortalities, growers knocking down hives, ect) that you would charge appropriately. Myself, I don't want to do pollination anymore (seems I've been missing my honey producing years) but if some did want my bees for pollination, it'll be $200 a hive up front or they can kiss it.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

marios said:


> In nova scotia we average 45 lb of honey so the 145 pollination is a must for commercial. ian your honey production is alot higher, we need both to survive


Well said !


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

chillardbee said:


> Still preaching the Caspian Jean-Marc, it's alright, the stuff works good.
> 
> After that loss I had 2 years back due...Well...what ever it was, I can't help but think that what ever the hell happens when bees are in pollination has some kind of negative effect on them. Since I haven't been doing the pollination my bees have been supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. It's just stands to reason that if there are, and there likely will be, negative what evers (mortalities, growers knocking down hives, ect) that you would charge appropriately. Myself, I don't want to do pollination anymore (seems I've been missing my honey producing years) but if some did want my bees for pollination, it'll be $200 a hive up front or they can kiss it.


With the package bees @ 169.00 for 1kg NZ bees it is really not all that bad doing pollination if you lost a few . Even @ 145.00 minimum I think it would be a benefit to any commercial beekeeper. Even if you had hive for rent that were ONLY for pollination and not Honey production like Ian had mentioned before .


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Ben Little said:


> With the package bees @ 169.00 for 1kg NZ bees it is really not all that bad doing pollination if you lost a few . Even @ 145.00 minimum I think it would be a benefit to any commercial beekeeper. Even if you had hive for rent that were ONLY for pollination and not Honey production like Ian had mentioned before .




Well, if your using Australian stock, you will be replacing them sooner then later. They seem to die a lot. I think it's a matter of how many hives you would lose and how often and whether it's sustainable or not. 

One could argue that even with an annual 50% loss that you could split the 50% that are alive and move them into the pollination but you've still put the money out for the feed and meds the for all of them the fall before in hope to get them through the winter. I mean, they all should survive, right? and maybe they do...or maybe they don't. 

All I'm saying is that ask within your fee the compensation for the crap thats sure to come. pass those expenses on to the grower as a part of your fee.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I suppose that is something a beekeeper would need to discuss with the grower directly , if you have losses from pollinating a crop and you deal with 1 grower only and could identify the cause being from his/her crop (pesticide/fungicide ect ) then it would be an issue you would need to deal with , pollination is a requirement for most beekeepers in order to survive financially . 
Personally I welcome pollination and I am happy to be a part of the process . 

But there also could be a contract stating that if your bees are dying from their crop pollination that they are to reimburse you , but then again where would it end ? 
I know pollination is hard on bees , but sometimes you have to do what you have to do to survive.

You do have a valid point though.

Ben


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Trucking them around, in itself, is hard on them. All of the vibrations, the bumps... it can knock down eggs, larvae, I'd imagine it can squish a few bees too.


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