# 5 vs. 10 frame box for trap



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i've set up several 5 frame deep nuc boxes as traps with old comb and lure, and i've had fairly decent scouting traffic in and out of them at times, but in the end the swarms go elsewhere. i'm wondering if they would have stayed had i used a 10 frame box instead?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

A large trap will catch a small swarm but a small trap will not catch a large swarm. I have been increasing my trap size over the years. I had a few five framers leave due to the trap being too small. This was one of my early ten frame catches this year. I have also noticed that I catch the tremendous swarms in the biggest unintentional traps, stacks of supers.


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## 5LimaBeans (Jan 4, 2015)

Cornell University has a paper indicating that swarms favor traps sized between 30 and 40 liters. For medium frames I figure that 12 frames is about 38 liters so that is the size I am trying in a custom 6 over 6 box. I think this would work out to about 8 deep frames being optimal if the Cornell study is correct. A ten frame deep box with two frames worth blocked off may be a reasonable place to try. I am just starting, so this opinion is not yet backed up by practical experience.


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## BeekeepingIsGood (Aug 12, 2012)

I think people often figure a 10 frame box is about 40L and 5 frame nuc is big enough to catch a swarm that can't find anything more optimally sized.

Seeley, at Cornell, has spent a whole lot of time looking into swarm behaviour, but I'm not sure if he ever talked about investigating the volume preferences of swarms while controlling for varying swarm size as odfrank is suggesting might make a difference.


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## BeekeepingIsGood (Aug 12, 2012)

I think people often figure a 10 frame box is about 40L and 5 frame nuc is big enough to catch a swarm that can't find anything more optimally sized.

Seeley, at Cornell, has spent a whole lot of time looking into swarm behaviour, but I'm not sure if he ever talked about investigating the volume preferences of swarms while controlling for varying swarm size as odfrank is suggesting might make a difference.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I run two 5 frame mediums. Seems to work fine for me. As far as I know, I've never had one leave.


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## SowthEfrikan (Mar 2, 2015)

Mr.Beeman said:


> I run two 5 frame mediums. Seems to work fine for me. As far as I know, I've never had one leave.


My smallest size is an 8-bar in a Top Bar Hive nuc. Swarms move in, and stay.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

All my swarm traps are 8 frame deeps three frames of drawn comb, 5 empty frames with starter strips. works for me just fine.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

Someone posted recently that he puts out whatever extra equipment he has. That is great advice.
For my area, I don't know why, but I get more swarms to 5 frame deeps than anything else. I've used all different box sizes and I can have a 5 frame deep, 10 frame deep, 10 frame medium in the same vicinity and other than a handful of times, they have picked the 5 frame deep. Often I'm adding a second story to it within a couple weeks, and there too it seems the hive builds up more quickly when I do this vs. moving them to 10 frame deep. 
Swarms in my area are generally smaller compared to pics I've seen here on Beesource. Maybe because we have spring and fall swarm season?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i've got 2 traps near the home yard and 2 near the out yard. they were all 5 frame deeps but i swapped out one at each yard for a 10 frame deep. here's how i put the frames in:

f = foundation
fl = foundationless
c = old brood comb

in the five framers:

f fl c fl f

in the ten framers:

f f fl c fl c fl f f f


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Tom Seeley's work on the subject of swarming is awesome and has been so helpful to me and countless others. That said, there are limits to his experiments. He did find that bees chose the 40L size over 15L or 100L, but he did not really investigate large variations in swarm size, and he did not perform these experiments in vastly different locations. He also did not perform experiments which explored wether the bees felt the same about 40L of vertically oriented space over 40L of horizontally oriented space. So plenty of questions remain.

I like full deep boxes for traps. As Odfrank says, you can't get a huge swarm in a small trap.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

All my years I have caught in 10 frame deeps and not even the first in 5 frame deeps.They stayed baited up ready and grab one when I need a nuc box but they stay ready just in case.I also keep my 10 frame deeps ready also.Free bees are always welcome.


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

I use 5 frame deep nuc with a 5 frame hive body on top. One brood comb in each nuc stacked over each ohter. The rest is rite cell. Seems to be a good combination .


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

trapped one at the out yard yesterday, they chose the 10 frame box instead of the 5 frame.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

trapped another at the home yard yesterday and they chose the 10 frame box over the 5 frame box like the previous one did. although the first one i caught this season was in a 5 frame, i think i'll be using 10 frame from now on.


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