# Problem



## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I have this double 4 frame Nuc that was once doing pretty good but now it looks like the queen is having trouble keeping up and I don't think it's her fault. I'm finding a lot of dead bees outside and have noticed a few mites and some white stuff on the bees not sure what the deal is. Was thinking I would use some MAQS just the single dose. Any ideas


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

here's a few pictures



















On the first pic you can see the white spots that I was talking about


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

My first guess would be they're slowing down for winter. The white particles in photo 1 looked like bits of cappings stuck to the bees, I did see your queen in photo 3, nice looking queen! Overall, how many frames of bees do you have?
Read the directions regarding the number of frames of bees for the number of pads to use. Seems like one pad would do, if you have at least five frames of brood/bees in the double nuc.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I have 6 double 4 frame nucs in my back yard and one double 10 frame hive. Today I put 1 pad in each of the 4 frame nucs and treated the other with 2 like the instructions call for. The colony with the queen that you had seen is getting and looking weaker. I noticed a lot of dead bees laying around the hive and a half a dozen larva pulled out and laying on the ground also. I did notice in the pictures a few of the bees had mites on them so I decided to treat and maybe it will help' I know you're not supposed to feed during treatments, but they still have uncapped sugar water in the comb. Is that a problem.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

I wouldn't think anything in the comb, nectar or sugar water, would be considered "feeding" by the manufacturer's standards. I don't see it as a problem.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Wild-b, I can't tell you what's wrong with this nuc, but they're nowhere near ready for a Nebraska winter. Low population, almost no capped honey...maybe a bit of feed at the edges? I would consider killing the queen and uniting them below another nuc.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I've been considering that, but at this time I think I'm going to see how far I can get them before the first of Nov. as of now the forecast is fair for the rest of the month. So I'm going to treat for mites and see how fast she can build population and see how much they can cap off. I have them on the South side of my house and plan on wrapping in a couple of weeks. I have 3 double 4 frame nucs and if I combine these I'll have an odd number with one by itself and then that throws out the side by side theory.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I've wintered one 4/4 nuc in a double nuc box just to see. They've made it just fine.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

A shotgun pattern this time of year is a pretty sure sign of high mite stress particularly if those open cells contain open brood. I take it as an emergency reflex by the queen to continue to attempt to bolster the hive population because something is amiss.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm treating for mites right now with MAQS. Not sure if it's to late, but well see how things turn out. If I need to I'll combine to make better numbers, just not for a couple of weeks. 30 day outlook is pretty good for now.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

wild-b said:


> I'm treating for mites right now with MAQS. Not sure if it's to late, but well see how things turn out. If I need to I'll combine to make better numbers


Even if you do need to combine.....it'll be good to knock down the miteload first. 
I'd be surprised if the colony can be fixed to survive by itself this late in the season.
Good luck.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I have another colony in a full 10 frame that needs a queen that is a little better, so I'll probably combine the 2 in a week or so.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

wild-b said:


> I have another colony in a full 10 frame that needs a queen that is a little better, so I'll probably combine the 2 in a week or so.


Is the other colony queen-less or just needs a better queen?

If it is queen-less, it might be good to act before a laying worker gets going.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I think it has a queen right now but a very poor one. I'll be checking tonight.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

wild-b said:


> I think it has a queen right now but a very poor one. I'll be checking tonight.


If you have a queen, I think you are right to wait. I hope you are feeding very heavily. I don't know what your winter looks like, but I bet it is brutal. Maybe some of the local beekeepers can advise you if you can get by just feeding sugar bricks or something through the winter of if you need to combine for now and split in the spring.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

right now I'm feeding a little more than a gallon a week to each of my colonies and then starting the last of January I'll be putting in sugar patties.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

wild-b said:


> right now I'm feeding a little more than a gallon a week to each of my colonies and then starting the last of January I'll be putting in sugar patties.


How long are your No-fly periods?


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

dsegrest said:


> How long are your No-fly periods?


Not sure what you mean, but temps this week should be in the mid to upper 70's and lows in the 40's and 50's.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Very spotty, some frames worse than others.
EFB or PMS.

The only way to know for sure is to send a sample of dead larva/comb to the lab for testing.

>I think it has a queen right now but a very poor one.

It's almost never the queen. But often the first to get blamed.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

So I went out and checked a colony that I stuck a queen in two weeks ago and there was no sign of eggs larva or a queen. The guy I got it from said that he wasn't sure if it was going to be any good' but I thought it might get me through the winter. I think they got rid of it so that colony is full of bees and copped honey and no queen like I suspected a couple of days ago. So when I'm done treating this colony on Saturday I thought I would combine the two. I am not sure how I should go about it so I need some ideas Please. Michael Palmer how would you combine a four frame two high nuc with a regular 10 frame? Or anyone else


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

Checked again yesterday so it's been over 2 weeks since I put in a queen in one of my colonies and still no signs of her at all. I treated this last week for mites and am going to combine the above nuc and queen with the queenless colony tomorrow. The temps are going to be in the 80's and I thought I would shake out the queenless colony since I think they've been without a queen for more than 2 weeks. There isn't any signs of a laying worker, but am going to be on the side of caution. I thought that after I shook them out I would install the small queenrite colony in their place and then when the others return the queen would already be there. I guess I'm not sure this is going to work so any other ideas would be welcomed. Thanks


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I'd put the 8 combs + 1 or two more in a 10 frame box and put on the bottom board of the colony you're adding it to. Use newspaper or drizzle syrup when you unite.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

Would you shake out the existing colony in case of a laying worker


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Why not look at it. Are there laying workers?


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't see any eggs or larva so I guess not


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

wild-b said:


> I have this double 4 frame Nuc that was once doing pretty good but now it looks like the queen is having trouble keeping up and I don't think it's her fault.





wild-b said:


> I have another colony in a full 10 frame that needs a queen that is a little better, so I'll probably combine the 2 in a week or so.


I hope you are seeing the pattern here. 



FlowerPlanter said:


> t's almost never the queen. But often the first to get blamed.


Exactly. You can replace queens until the cows come home....but unless you resolve the underlying problem it ain't gonna get better.
Good luck.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I know the pattern and it's not the bees. In the nuc it's mites in the other colony it was the beekeeper. I made a split a while back and missed the queen and didn't know it and now she is in a double five frame nuc that is doing really well and I've had a little trouble getting a good queen in the other one. All the colonies have now been treated for mites and we'll see how this one does with a combine.

This is the one that I missed the queen in and made the split from and is now the one I am trying to get a queen in.


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