# Trapping 2019 - success rate?



## GregB

I figure I will start this talk for you guys down there - so you can start bragging.

Our local swarms are three months away.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds

Caught one but we are freakishly early for us. Just in some deadout equipment in our shed.


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## R_V

caught 2 swarms so far.. somebody else's (or wild) bees on the 8th. my bees on the 17th.


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## HiveBeetle

3 caught in traps in the past week. 5 swarms caught elsewhere so far.


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## hankstump

I have one, and 3 friends each have one in the past week. Season is on in the Bay Area (SF) I was lucky enough to be home when the one came into my box. It never gets old when they come in. 
Phil in Fremont.


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## HiveBeetle

1 more yesterday and 1 today.


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## GregB

From the local beekeeping chatter I am getting a sniff that some Russian swarms could be in the area this season.
There are many "Russian" packages are being dumped into the area.
The degree of "Russian-ness" of course is to be seen (more likely some mutts sold as "Russians").

Anyways, am excited to trap this season for some strange bees. Mutts are good.
Anticipation of a new fishing season!


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## R_V

third swarm caught today


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## Cyberman

For those that have swarms leave their new hive soon after capture:

Usually bees leave because the hive seems like an artificial environment to them. People use plastic foundation, etc.
My best success has been using hives that have had colonies in the before and frames that have been used, because they has a bee hive smell.

If you can't do this and you only have a completely new hive, try putting some "Swarm Commander" or lemongrass oil on tops of the frames (Just a few drops).
The Swarm Commander or lemongrass oil is usually what attracted them in the first place and will help keep them in the hive.


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## GregB

Cyberman said:


> ....
> The Swarm Commander or lemongrass oil is usually what attracted them in the first place and will help keep them in the hive.


I don't think SC or LGO will play much role in retaining the swarm in place.
Their significant role is in attracting the scouts to the cavity - but that is where it stands.

If you really want to be retaining swarms in place - well propolised (i. e. primed) dwelling of appropriate volume is the best way.
In cases of brand new traps/hives - melt inside as much propolise as you can afford...
The last few days this is what I have been doing - scavenging propolise from my used equipment for reuse in trapping/home uses.
Propolise alone is a good enough attractant, without SC/LGO on hand.


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## soarwitheagles

Caught three swarms here on our property, then missed one large swarm on an almond tree yesterday. Darn, we were moving the last of our colonies with JRG and then JRG saw the swarm on the tree.

I forgot about it this morning and later this afternoon it was already gone. 

Lesson learned: Always place a swarm trap or two in the almond orchards when placing bees, and leave them there a week or two after removing your bees!

I left a swarm trap there this afternoon....will see what happens...


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## gone2seed

7 boxes out with 4 swarms caught so far including the one in the truck. For those that did not see the FB post, I put a trap mon the truck one evening intending to put it in the woods early the next day. The bees beat me to it the next morning.


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## beemandan

GregV said:


> I don't think SC or LGO will play much role in retaining the swarm in place.


How sure are you of this?
The reason I ask it that I’ve collected 5 swarms so far this season. I usually bait my box with a dab of lgo but on two of those occasions I didn’t have any with me. In both of those cases the bees abandoned the boxes within an hour. In all three that were baited with lgo the swarms remained intact. In fact, on one of those I didn’t get the queen and the bees still stayed in the box. I realized a week later and gave them a frame with a swarm cell and they are now queenright.


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## GregB

beemandan said:


> How sure are you of this?
> The reason I ask it that I’ve collected 5 swarms so far this season. I usually bait my box with a dab of lgo but on two of those occasions I didn’t have any with me. In both of those cases the bees abandoned the boxes within an hour. In all three that were baited with lgo the swarms remained intact. In fact, on one of those I didn’t get the queen and the bees still stayed in the box. I realized a week later and gave them a frame with a swarm cell and they are now queenright.


Well, I am very sure I can attract a swarm to a tree branch using LGO/SC dabbed rag OR just as well an old propolised rag (see - Russian scion).
Heck, you can hang a queen in a cage onto a tree branch and see what happens.
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u94CWpH1oE&feature=youtu.be

Will they stay on that branch? 
They sure as heck will try find a better place as a tree branch is the worst possibly "cavity" they can find (no matter how much LGO/SC tries to keep them on the branch).

So again - cavity finding and cavity selection = two different things.
Cavity *finding *may be followed by the cavity *selection*, but no guaranty.
These are different things and this is what I have been saying.

So what really keeps them in place - a proper cavity that they like (once they found it).
Old and well used cavity is very good to keep them put.

Now - IF you have no queen, then LGO/SC very well could fool them into thinking they have "something" like a queen.
This is a different case you are talking about - fooling queen-less swarm.


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## beemandan

GregV said:


> Now - IF you have no queen, then LGO/SC very well could fool them into thinking they have "something" like a queen.
> This is a different case you are talking about - fooling queen-less swarm.


The queenless swarm was only one of three that stayed in the box with lgo. And two for two left without lgo. 
You have expressed a number of opinions but I’m not sure my experience gives me the same conclusions. 
In every case…trapped or collected swarm….I put one frame with drawn brood comb into the box. Even before I started using lgo swarms were drawn to those boxes. I never added any propolis. In my opinion….notice how I said that…..drawn comb and lgo are good attractants. And, I believe…notice how I said that…..contribute to the bees staying. Add a frame of brood….again in my experience….to a collected swarm and they will be locked in place. 
But these are only my opinions. I am reluctant to express them as facts and potentially mislead a reader.


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## GregB

beemandan said:


> ........
> But these are only my opinions. I am reluctant to express them as facts and potentially mislead a reader.


Of course mine are too - opinions.

But again, we discussed many times now..
Here is another case - you attract a large swarm to a little trap.
What happens?
They will likely fly away, no matter how well the LGO/SC you use.
The unfit trap will not keep them (at best, they will settle outside of it).

Finding a trap <> taking the trap.
The trap itself keeps the bees (not LGO/SC).
All I am saying.

This is my opinion and here is why....
Last year I never once put any LGO *inside *the traps. 
I like this method and will continue - hanging the LGO *outside *of the trap.
This way I never need to second-guess myself was it enough LGO? Did I put too much LGO? Once it is hanging outside - does not matter. 
It can be a full bottle LGO hanging outside - does not matter.
The actual habitability of the trap and how bees will like it and how desperate they are - what matters.
Once they find a well primed trap, they switch the attention to it - starting to scavenge the propolise, etc.

Soarwitheagles, btw, posted multiple-times too - how he is placing his LGO/SC bate out side of the traps (I could be wrong, but pretty sure in this; he has plenty of interesting write ups on this).

My very first year trapping I had zero success while having everything done correctly - but one thing - I did not have any primed traps (all brand new plywood).
LGO alone brought me *zero *swarm retention.
I have not idea of how many times bees found my brand new traps - I am not able to continuously monitor all of my traps for bees finding them.
But for sure, they settled in my traps zero times.

Once I finally got few primed traps/old combs inside, the hits started coming on the same exact spots (which I thought were use-less).

And so again finding a trap <> taking a trap.
LGO/SC is a great method to be sure bees are finding your trap.
Them taking your trap - a next step.


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## beemandan

I’m really not trying to be difficult but simply saying that my experience has been totally different. 
I bait my traps inside with lgo and have also used swarm commander. I caught ten last year in the same location. The year before I caught 18…same place. Lgo or sc inside the boxes. 
I have had swarms move into stored equipment on occasion. No baiting but always some old comb inside. But…it is rare. 
In the case here, you and I have evidently had opposite experiences. 
I try to be careful when I express my opinions here. I try to explain how I came to my opinions. I ain’t perfect. We have a relatively large audience of newcomers who are likely to buy into our opinions without a second thought if we don’t qualify them. To this day I have people approach me claiming to have had bees but ‘lost’ them. After a little discussion it turns out that they bought into the small cell myth. And then there’s fgmo. To this day! Ideas expressed on the internet can be perpetuated forever, it seems. 
As you probably know….it is one of my pet peeves. So, if my experience is different than yours I am likely to challenge you. 
Nothing personal.


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## odfrank

The only one I have caught this year is embarrassingly small. Less than a cup of bees and a queen. Into a very old box that has always been good bait.


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## GregB

beemandan said:


> ....
> I bait my traps inside with lgo and have also used swarm commander.* I caught ten last year in the same location.* *The year before I caught 18…same place.* Lgo or sc inside the boxes.
> .


OK, ........and you keep saying over and over...
Same location.
Same location.
Why are you saying this?
Maybe the location IS important?

IF LGO/SC are such overwhelming swarm attracting AND *retaining *factors - life should be stupid simple.
Setup your brand new traps on the back porch in a single row and bait them using LGO/SC. 
Bees will come and bees will stay. 
Bang - you got yourself 10-20 hives in a single setting right on your backyard.

Why even bother with anything else?
Why are we even going around looking for places (IF LGO/SC is the 100% recepie)?

The reality is - the location is also very important in the swarm retention.
I admit - I forgot to list the location as a retention factor.

OK, let me must refer to the printed sources.
For catching swarms into log hives/bee trees by the primitive beekeepers several key factors should be met (Iliasov, 2015/Petrov, 1983).

These factors are:
* *location *- case by case and are hard to generalize; the log hive/bee tree keepers just have a feel for good locations;
* *proximity to water* - ideally within 100-200 yards/meters must be a watering place (even a swamp)
* *cavity volume *- 40 to 80 liters (60 liters maybe the ideal goal)
* *height *of the cavity from the ground - in a forest setting 10-30 feet off the ground 
(again - this is in forest setting, so not re-discuss again; myself, I just set my traps directly on the ground as not much of forests to speak of and open space is a plenty)
* the entrance ideally looking to south-east or approaching to it, and not obstructed

My listed sources have actual numbers to support the factors as significant enough (especially, the sum of all the factors).

These are all important points.
Consider, people actually go into lots of time/labor expense/personal risk to carve a hollow inside a tree on a considerable height.
You don't do tree carving those just for the fun of it, while hanging on up there (AND without a reasonable assurance that bees will move in).

Once the empty cavity is prepared and let to dry for 1-2 years, then they bate it.
They use as a bate:
* old comb
* propolise rubbed
* some plants rubbed by the entrance (catnip, mint).

The people who use bee-trees/log hives have not a slightest idea what the LGO/SC are.
But they are dependent entirely on the swarm trapping business and have been doing this for generations.


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## soarwitheagles

Swarms here started coming in about a week ago. They are nearly an entire month later than last year. We are still hoping and waiting for large numbers of swarms to appear soon.

We caught and/or saw 5 swarms last week. Last night we finally housed them into boxes.

Late this afternoon another swarm landed just feet from our front door on a eucalyptus tree. Really strange...it wrapped itself around the tree trunk like clothes and is over 4 feet tall! 

Anyone have any clue how we should collect this clothing-like swarm wrapped around this eucalyptus tree? Tonight JRG suggested we simply place a baited box right next to it!

It is beginning to be exciting again!

It's WooHoo instead of BooHoo!


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## Alex Madsen

"Anyone have any clue how we should collect this clothing-like swarm wrapped around this eucalyptus tree?"

Scoop them into the box with you hands. Swarms tend to be good tempered I am told. 
I have never had the opportunity to do this myself, so take it for what it is worth.


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## Charlie B

Soar,

That’s swarm is perfect for a bushkill bee vac!


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## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> ..
> Anyone have any clue how we should collect this clothing-like swarm wrapped around this eucalyptus tree? Tonight JRG suggested we simply place a baited box right next to it!


Get this tool and scoop/dump them into your box:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=57086&cat=2,2120,33277&ap=1



> ......perfect for harvesting most small berries.....


And the bees too, I think.
I mean to get one.


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## soarwitheagles

Charlie B said:


> Soar,
> 
> That’s swarm is perfect for a bushkill bee vac!


Charlie,

Unfortunately, someone in the bushkill family died and now they are not sure if they will remain in business.

Did you purchase one and if yes, how did you like it?


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## beemandan

I caught two more, one yesterday and one the day before. 
The count in my traps is now three. 
The first one, a couple of weeks ago had a yellow marked queen. I know where she came from. I haven't done a full inspection on the new two yet. 
I am almost finished with splitting the hives near the traps....so am hoping that any additional caught swarms will be from someone else's yard.


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## soarwitheagles

We reached the magic number of 5 caught swarms in the last week or so. A far cry compared to last year. I think having the 4th highest amount of rainfall in recorded history has a lot to do with this...well, at least that is my hope. We are still hoping for and waiting for the swarm madness to begin...

Cloudy and cool again today...and some rain this evening too...


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## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> .... We are still hoping for and waiting for the swarm madness to begin....


My bet - it will not happen again.
The bee thieves moved their holdings.
OR - they got caught.
No more swarm generator.


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## GregB

dup


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## challenger

I have about 20 traps out and haven't gotten a swarm yet so???
I generally have very good luck however so they will come around.


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## soarwitheagles

GregV said:


> My bet - it will not happen again.
> The bee thieves moved their holdings.
> OR - they got caught.
> No more swarm generator.


Oh my! Come on Greg....where is your faith? I am believing for a miracle swarm year of a minimum of 100 swarms! I would bet you , but I am not a gambling man and besides that, I do not wanna take your money!


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## GregB

Just a hunch, soar.
Just a hunch. 

I have fun reading your reports though!


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## soarwitheagles

GregV said:


> Just a hunch, soar.
> Just a hunch.
> 
> I have fun reading your reports though!


You sound like Sergeant Joe Friday on Dragnet...


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## R_V

one more confirmed caught today. #4

details here 
https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?321076-Alabama&p=1715453#post1715453


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## Charlie B

soarwitheagles said:


> Charlie,
> 
> Unfortunately, someone in the bushkill family died and now they are not sure if they will remain in business.
> 
> Did you purchase one and if yes, how did you like it?


Soar,

I made a copy of one and cut out the top to accommodate my detachable blower head. Works great and you don’t have to dump bees. Just vacuum them into a super. Perfect for swarms that are on a flat surface like cars or mailboxes here.


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## Nordak

I'm one for one, and was happy with that. Early last week, a swarm randomly showed up in my backyard. Initially, I thought it was one of my splits that maybe absconded, but both were still there. As far as I can tell, they aren't my bees. I noticed there were a ton of scouts issuing from the swarm to an abandoned hive in the yard. Maybe they needed a breather?


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## soarwitheagles

Charlie B said:


> Soar,
> 
> I made a copy of one and cut out the top to accommodate my detachable blower head. Works great and you don’t have to dump bees. Just vacuum them into a super. Perfect for swarms that are on a flat surface like cars or mailboxes here.


Charlie,

Can you send me a pic/blue print how to make one?


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## soarwitheagles

Swarm #5

It landed in the exact same spot as another different swarm last week! And no, they are not the same swarms [I ran and checked]!

FYI, nearly every trap barely getting hit by scout bees until yesterday...suddenly, massive scout bees hammering every trap.

Here's a pic of swarm #1 and swarm #5















UPDATE, READ ALL ABOUT IT!

Swarm 6 roared in a little after 4 pm!


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## Nordak

Those are nice sized swarms. Congratulations, soars.


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## odfrank

There are YouTube video building instructions.


QUOTE=soarwitheagles;1715505]


Charlie B said:


> Soar,
> 
> I made a copy of one and cut out the top to accommodate my detachable blower head. Works great and you don’t have to dump bees. Just vacuum them into a super. Perfect for swarms that are on a flat surface like cars or mailboxes here.


Charlie,

Can you send me a pic/blue print how to make one?[/QUOTE]


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## Charlie B

Soar,

Go to beevac.com. There are all kinds of plans including bushkill.


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## JWPalmer

There are plans for the Bushkill bee vac that Barry posted right here on Beesource.


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## soarwitheagles

Nordak said:


> Those are nice sized swarms. Congratulations, soars.


Thank you Nordak! We are still believing for much larger swarms!!!



odfrank said:


> There are YouTube video building instructions.
> 
> 
> QUOTE=soarwitheagles;1715505]
> 
> Charlie,
> 
> Can you send me a pic/blue print how to make one?


[/QUOTE]



Charlie B said:


> Soar,
> 
> Go to beevac.com. There are all kinds of plans including bushkill.


Thank you Charlie B and OdFrank! Appreciate your help as always!

Gosh, used to be able to say Yahoo without advertising! Well, I will have to say WooHoo instead! Swarm season is beginning to kick in here and I was getting concerned we would not catch many at all...


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## GregB

Gosh, that darn "bee thief yard" may still be there casting the swarms again.
Looks like soar is in for another crazy trapping year.


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## soarwitheagles

GregV said:


> Gosh, that darn "bee thief yard" may still be there casting the swarms again.
> Looks like soar is in for another crazy trapping year.


Greg, thieves have nothing whatsoever to do with all these swarms...

The answer to our catching many, many swarms is super simple...so simple some don't get it: I prayed, asking the Lord to send me swarms so I could start a honey bee company. I did not have the finances to purchase lots of honeybees. God is answering my prayer...and not with stolen bees. So please stop the delusional statements.

Swarms also seem to follow me, or at the very least, be attracted to me. Went to work today many miles away from home and the boss asked me if I could help solve this problem:









I gladly volunteered.

JRG can attest that many people have called me to collect swarms too. He and I worked on a very large swarm last year many miles away from our home.

I receive more calls than I can field. And that includes neighbors too.

For the last two years, there were 10 times more swarms than I could house.

I believe in miracles...

I am not a negative person, constantly thinking negative and believing evil malignant things are happening to me.

I do every thing I can to believe for good, positive, extraordinary miracles in my life. Wonderful thing is, it keeps happening!


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## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> Greg,... So please stop the delusional statements.


OK, soar, I better stop.

But curious minds will wonder.
Especially with this -


> God is answering my prayer..


Anyway, thinking about - 3x the recommended bait amount may very well make sense - the smell cloud should cover the larger area in theory.
I should start ignoring the recommended best practices too.
The super-strong bait does not be placed inside the trap hive (but just close enough to the trap hive should work).


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## JWPalmer

Soar, God works in mysterious ways. I think he sent a bee thief as Greg suggests to provide your swarms. Keep praying and keep catching them.


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## clong

soarwitheagles said:


> The answer to our catching many, many swarms is super simple...so simple some don't get it: I prayed, asking the Lord to send me swarms so I could start a honey bee company. I did not have the finances to purchase lots of honeybees. God is answering my prayer...and not with stolen bees. So please stop the delusional statements.



Soars, I pray the Lord blesses your business and receives all the glory. It seems you have a cruse of oil the last couple of years.  Two scriptures come to mind:

Matthew 7:7-11
Colossians 3:23


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## soarwitheagles

clong said:


> Soars, I pray the Lord blesses your business and receives all the glory. It seems you have a cruse of oil the last couple of years.  Two scriptures come to mind:
> 
> Matthew 7:7-10
> Colossians 3:23


Thanks clong and I agree.

Caught another swarm today.


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## Litsinger

JWPalmer said:


> Soar, God works in mysterious ways... Keep praying and keep catching them.





clong said:


> Soars, I pray the Lord blesses your business and receives all the glory.


+1 to this. I admire that you are staying true to your convictions and sharing your successes with us here. I sincerely hope that you and your family have a most joyous and blessed Easter.

Russ


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## soarwitheagles

Litsinger said:


> +1 to this. I admire that you are staying true to your convictions and sharing your successes with us here. I sincerely hope that you and your family have a most joyous and blessed Easter.
> 
> Russ


Thank you Russ and the same to you and your family!


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## Kamon A. Reynolds

caught this https://youtu.be/JnEGFugTzMk second one in a trap and I waited a month to long and they were a few days from swarming yikes. Brood and honey everywhere! Must be the odd sized equipment i use.


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## Riverderwent

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> caught this


Tennessee, you clearly know your stuff. Good job. What time of day do you usually move swarm traps?


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## Litsinger

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> caught this https://youtu.be/JnEGFugTzMk


Great video- thank you for sharing.

Russ


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## soarwitheagles

For us, swarm season is much slower than previous years...

Caught one at the school where I teach, and two more at home. I believe that puts us at 9 or 10 so far for this year...


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## Cyberman

GregV said:


> I don't think SC or LGO will play much role in retaining the swarm in place.
> Their significant role is in attracting the scouts to the cavity - but that is where it stands...


I guess there are as many opinions as their are bees in a hive. But I use a squirt of swarm commander on a frame when I put a newly captured swarm into a hive and have never lost one, especially if its all new wood. I've been doing it for years. 6 new swarms successfully hived so far this year and will still get and keep more.


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## JWPalmer

Greg, I recently used a very small amount of LGO to help convince a swarm to stay put. They were fanning like crazy before the virgin queen even walked into the box. Can't say for certain it helped, but it sure didn't hurt.


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## Cyberman

When the scout bees find a suitable location for the new swarm they leave a scent behind that smells similar to lemongrass oil. This is why LGO attracts and also helps the bees stay at the new location. This is especially helpful when the hive is new wood construction with no other bee scents in it.
I would agree that propolis and or beeswax in the hive does help convince them to stay. I rub beeswax on the sides of the box also if it is new wood.


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## genusCastor

JWPalmer said:


> Greg, I recently used a very small amount of LGO to help convince a swarm to stay put. They were fanning like crazy before the virgin queen even walked into the box. Can't say for certain it helped, but it sure didn't hurt.


How do you place the LGO? If in a small time-release vial, where do you get the vial? 

I want in on this swarm catchin' adventure!  

- djb


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## GregB

I have to agree to this - to properly state what factor holds the swarms in place best, a proper experiment is to be done.
I have not done it - end of story.
With that, am not an authority on the subject.

However, until I did not get well primed traps, my swarm hunting had 0% success.

Anyways... 
We here have maybe another month before the swarms.
The good news is that I know there are plenty of bees around to be chased after (some one else's bees, that is). 
They have been trying to rob my bees already.


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## GregB

genusCastor said:


> How do you place the LGO? If in a small time-release vial, where do you get the vial?
> 
> I want in on this swarm catchin' adventure!
> 
> - djb


Please just search and study - BS, youtube, google.
A big and popular subject.
Enough had been said, pictured, and video-posted.


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## beemandan

genusCastor said:


> How do you place the LGO?


This is how I bait mine using lemongrass oil…..
I think you will only need to watch the first 4 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx8FHGjTKzE&t=142s


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## genusCastor

GregV said:


> Please just search and study - BS, youtube, google.


Awesome. Thanks for the tip. 

:-|

- djb


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## genusCastor

beemandan said:


> This is how I bait mine using lemongrass oil…..
> I think you will only need to watch the first 4 minutes.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx8FHGjTKzE&t=142s


I've seen (read) others who say the oil needs to be in some kind of time release container, it's too strong otherwise. :scratch: 

- djb


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## GregB

genusCastor said:


> Awesome. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> :-|
> 
> - djb


Sure thing.
That's what I have been doing. 
Anymore I got nothing new to share.


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## Litsinger

beemandan said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx8FHGjTKzE&t=142s


Great video, Dan. I appreciate you posting. I was glad to see I'm not the only one who commandeers my kid's treehouse- got some good ideas for treehouse updates too .


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## beemandan

genusCastor said:


> I've seen (read) others who say the oil needs to be in some kind of time release container, it's too strong otherwise.


I think that there is a wide range or experiences. I’ve been doing it the same way for several years now. I have baited ‘traps’ and had swarms move in a matter of an hour. I have ‘trapped’ four swarms this way, so far this season. Ten last year. Eighteen the year before. Why this seems to work for me and not for others? I have no idea. 
I don’t claim that my way is the only or best way. Try it any way you choose or better yet, try it a number of ways.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds

Riverderwent said:


> Tennessee, you clearly know your stuff. Good job. What time of day do you usually move swarm traps?


Thanks! I like to move them in the early morning. Late evening works also. Smoke them in, seal them up, and move. The method I use is simple and I truly believe it is not about the perfect factors to bring a hive into a trap. Just give them a decent space with old bee smell and if you have a lure so much the better!


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## beemandan

Litsinger said:


> Great video, Dan. I appreciate you posting. I was glad to see I'm not the only one who commandeers my kid's treehouse- got some good ideas for treehouse updates too 😉.


I'm actually considering building a dedicated trap platform.


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## soarwitheagles

Here's the swarm we caught at my job site.

After only a couple of days the bees already built a wild frame of comb with honey, pollen and eggs and then also filled 4 deep frames. I suppose this tells me there is a significant flow in this part of the city...

BTW, I added 5 new frames with plastic foundation...then stored them in a deep with an open screen bottom board. I am hoping they will survive until I get home. I am leaving them in my truck in the shade until around 3 pm, then I will race home.

Ok, what's my odds? Will this swarm survive? I watered them down with sugar water at 6 am this morning...


----------



## clong

soarwitheagles said:


> Here's the swarm we caught at my job site.
> 
> After only a couple of days the bees already built a wild frame of comb with honey, pollen and eggs and then also filled 4 deep frames. I suppose this tells me there is a significant flow in this part of the city...
> 
> BTW, I added 5 new frames with plastic foundation...
> 
> View attachment 47771


Soars,

Good-looking swarm.

What is the water bottle for?


----------



## soarwitheagles

clong said:


> Soars,
> 
> Good-looking swarm.
> 
> What is the water bottle for?


clong,

The water bottle was filled with sugar syrup and I used it to spray the swarm bees before transferring them from the trap to the deep box. Then, by accident, I accidentally dropped the water bottle into the swarm trap. My bad!


----------



## GregB

Found an interesting article in the "Beekeepers Quarterly" about huge swarm trapping success rates - see pages 44-45. 



> - having a huge number of boxes filled with good, empty and clean combs (GV: *all stacked in one place*);
> - that the empty combs had very recently been on normal colonies for a day (GV: the empty combs have been *primed* by inserting them into the active beehives for one day for cleaning)


https://www.researchgate.net/public...alifax_2015_No120_June_Pages_24-26_in_English


Practically for me, this means:
- always having traps around active bee hives (active bee hives amount to a very good attractant not to be used for just that);
- priming the empty combs immediately before inserting them into the traps - easy to do and so why not; 
typically by now, empty combs have been bee-less for several months and indeed may have lost most of the attractive smells


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> Found an interesting article in the "Beekeepers Quarterly" about huge swarm trapping success rates - see pages 44-45.


Interesting article, GregV. I sincerely appreciate you posting it.

I had never even considered putting new boxes/frames on existing colonies to help give them the 'lived-in' smell. Makes perfect sense!

Thanks again for sharing. Have a great evening.

Russ


----------



## GregB

OK, I suppose I am officially in as well.
Dandelion is in bloom full-bore.
Local drones are in making.

Most all my traps are already in place (left there since the last season).
But need checked, cleaned, combs fixed/added as needed, fresh LGO hanged up.
I target for about 7 locations this year (which is the target # of my bee yards).
May set even 2-3 traps at few tested spots where I landed swarms before.

Pretty darn sure this trap will land a swarm this year.


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> OK, I suppose I am officially in as well.


Good luck to you, GregV!


----------



## robber

Caught first swarm this year in a 5 frame trap that was baited with SC in western Kentucky. Softball size or a little more.


----------



## GregB

Set another one - this is a per-annual catcher trap in the per-annual swarm landing strip.
But really, this is too early for us.
I am just getting ahead of my time a bit (you, southern boys are at fault).


----------



## Litsinger

robber said:


> Caught first swarm this year in a 5 frame trap that was baited with SC in western Kentucky. Softball size or a little more.


Way to go, Robber! Free bees...

Best of success to you this year.

Russ


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> Set another one - this is a per-annual catcher trap in the per-annual swarm landing strip.
> But really, this is too early for us.
> I am just getting ahead of my time a bit (you, southern boys are at fault).
> View attachment 48197
> 
> View attachment 48199


Now that is a cool swarm trap set-up... never too early right


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> Now that is a cool swarm trap set-up... never too early right


Never to early for few reasons, indeed.

1)With all the packages dumped on us over the last 1-2 months - few of these will abscond and will be looking for homes. 
Same old.

2)The local weather such that we have 2-3 days of summer warmth (with good pollen/nectar intake - strong growth simulators). 
Then we have 2-3 days of cold rain and near freezing nights (swarm stimulation from strong colonies - excessive expansion by a box is bad due to intermittent cold; but undersized hives are also bad).
I would not be surprised of swarming pressure building up there and here.
Same old.

In general, it is too early.
But since the traps burn no gasoline, use no electricity, and don't eat - set them out I say.


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> But since the traps burn no gasoline, use no electricity, and don't eat - set them out I say.


Now that's a motto I can get behind- best of success to you in your trapping efforts.

Russ


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> Now that's a motto I can get behind- best of success to you in your trapping efforts.
> 
> Russ


Sounds you've been dragging down some swarms, Russ.
Now that's a good deal.
Fingers crossed for some ferals.

Pretty soon the southern reporters could probably be reporting the preliminary success #s / trap #s.
The final success rates, anyone?


----------



## clong

GregV said:


> Sounds you've been dragging down some swarms, Russ.
> Now that's a good deal.
> Fingers crossed for some ferals.
> 
> Pretty soon the southern reporters could probably be reporting the preliminary success #s / trap #s.
> The final success rates, anyone?


Gregv,

The swarm season has been early around here. I think it is tailing off now. Not much heavy scouting any more.

I've caught 3 swarms, one free-hanging, but only two trapped. One 3 lbs, one 1lb.

Call me 2/7.

I'm heavily baiting a couple traps again, ala Soars. I'll update if things change.


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> The final success rates, anyone?


Do you get half credit for catching your own swarms?


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> Do you get half credit for catching your own swarms?


In my opinion - it is a full credit.
We are not terribly concerned with the source of that swarm.

A trap dragged down a swarm for you OR not - it is a binary choice.
This means there was something good about the trap configuration and placement (by your actions or by accident). 

To consider, set out an empty computer box, make a hole in it, and do nothing else.
Your own swarm will most likely ignore it or not even find it.
So the trap configuration by you, the trapper, does matter to make the trap findable and attractive.


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> In my opinion - it is a full credit.
> We are not terribly concerned with the source of that swarm.


Thanks, GregV. I was lightheartedly asking the question at an attempt at humor. That said, I think your idea of a community evaluation of what worked (and what didn't) with their swarm trapping efforts is a great and worthwhile endeavor.

Sorry to take the thread a bit off-focus.

Russ


----------



## robber

Seems last week was a good week here in far Western Ky. 2 swarms caught in traps on opposite ends (east/west) of McCracken County.


----------



## clong

robber said:


> Seems last week was a good week here in far Western Ky. 2 swarms caught in traps on opposite ends (east/west) of McCracken County.


robber,

Good job! How many does that make for you? What is your score, ie "catches/traps"?


----------



## robber

2/7. Still keeping all 7 baited. What's crazy is one swarm arrived exactly a year from the one I missed last year (May 7).


----------



## clong

robber said:


> 2/7. Still keeping all 7 baited. What's crazy is one swarm arrived exactly a year from the one I missed last year (May 7).


Ha ha. We are tied. However, I think the swarm activity is on the wane here. Last year I had heavy scouting in July at one trap, but no catch. Here's hoping you catch at least 2 more for over 50%.

Was your miss last year heavy scouting with no catch?


----------



## Litsinger

robber said:


> Seems last week was a good week here in far Western Ky. 2 swarms caught in traps on opposite ends (east/west) of McCracken County.


Way to go, Robber! Given how cold and wet it has been here of late, I expect we might have another week - 10 days of swarm activity with the projected forecast of warm and dry for later in the week.


----------



## robber

clong said:


> Ha ha. We are tied. However, I think the swarm activity is on the wane here. Last year I had heavy scouting in July at one trap, but no catch. Here's hoping you catch at least 2 more for over 50%.
> 
> Was your miss last year heavy scouting with no catch?


Embarrassingly, no. Last year I decided to get into beekeeping about April and no idea what I was doing. Put a trap out Saturday and huge swarm came Monday (beginner's luck). I was not prepared and by the time I got some equipment they left.


----------



## robber

Litsinger said:


> Way to go, Robber! Given how cold and wet it has been here of late, I expect we might have another week - 10 days of swarm activity with the projected forecast of warm and dry for later in the week.


I agree. Actually saw some scouting on a trap yesterday surprisingly with it being overcast and chilly.


----------



## GregB

Got a new location on a farm nearby - probably my practical max - 7 locations.
7 has been my lucky number and I better stick with it and do the best I can.

A standard 60 liter box (two Lang medum boxes fused together; really really well primed - a bee dream home).
This one is sitting by a horse manure pile (just to the left of the frame, if facing the trap).
A great out yard spot I feel, facing East-SouthEast.


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> A standard 60 liter box (two Lang medum boxes fused together; really really well primed - a bee dream home).


GregV:

Are you going to experiment with entrance quantity/placement? I recall that many of your hives are set-up with configurable entrances.


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> GregV:
> 
> Are you going to experiment with entrance quantity/placement? I recall that many of your hives are set-up with configurable entrances.


Probably not.
Now that I almost completed the summer-winter-summer cycle, I made my conclusions (posted into the experiment thread).
During the most stressful time in my area (late winter/early spring/weakened colony), this is what the bees clearly demonstrated.








Also, during the robbing event I observed this spring - they defended the upper hole well, but the lower entrance not so well (had to plug in the lower entrance).

Basically, I am sticking to my model going forward - 1x1x1x2 (as pictured).


----------



## Litsinger

GregV said:


> Basically, I am sticking to my model going forward - 1x1x1x2 (as pictured).
> View attachment 48397


10-4. Good luck with your trapping efforts.


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> 10-4. Good luck with your trapping efforts.


I'd be darned - someone in my area caught a swarm today.
He also posted a thermo-picture of the swarm.

It is so hot, it is just cool.








Better finish the setups quick now!
I guess we are ON.


----------



## clipper

Put out 6 traps and so far have 5 swarms. One was in my yard though, at lest it didn't leave. All of my swarms have been small this year and my bees started swarming several weeks before I got hits on my traps. Don't understand that.


----------



## GregB

As of this morning, my 7 trapping locations are set (active or potential out-yards, really). Whew.
Another cold, rainy day here today.
Hopefully, some swarms are building in up around the area; the cold/rainy spring is not necessarily bad for the swarm hunters.


----------



## Litsinger

I am thinking swarm season is over in Western Kentucky and looks like I am going to have to go back to the Frontier League- I batted 0.180:

https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...ment-Free-Bungling-2018&p=1728253#post1728253


----------



## GregB

1/7 for me so far.
Dragged down a big one right on my back porch the last Saturday (5/25/2019)
Commercial Carni type. 
Very nice and mellow bee - too bad, probably treatment-dependent.
Set them up for honey making. 
All want from them - honey.


----------



## gww

I have around 16 traps out. I got my first swarm in one on 5-25-19. I leave the traps out all year. I average about 2 swarms a year and they have not shown a preference for a particular trap when they have a choice of more then one.
Cheers
gww
ps Congradulation greg


----------



## GregB

gww said:


> ...ps Congradulation greg


Thanks gww.
I realistically hope for 3-4 (the usual for me, now that I reduced to only trapping around my bee yards due to lack of time).
The weather is back to cool rain again (terrible for foraging; good for swarm hunting).
I am sure more swarms are building up right now because of all this idle time - who knows, could be lots of rain and lots of swarms this season - not much honey/lots free bees.

Since I was around the house all Saturday, I got to monitor the entire process - pretty cool.
Back porch set was deployed for about a week (no activity at all that I noticed).








BAM - very active scouting Saturday early PM - warm and humid day finally - perfect for swarms (scouting was looking very serious and determined and frantic):








Swarm landed between 5pm and 6pm:















Next early morning - taken away to the permanent spot:


----------



## GregB

By Sunday night they were in much better housing.







Over the course of one day, they were filling the combs nectar like crazy.
6 large frames in the trap - there was nectar all over - 50 liter trap was full of bees, up to the brim
Upgraded them to 12 frames (some old honey included); still need have the honey super on the top - and mostly forget them for the rest of the summer.


----------



## AR1

With all the rain and cold I just now got my traps out in my best location. Almost got the minivan stuck in the mud. Just hoping that the cold wet weather has delayed things a little. I've had the traps in my back yard and at my dad's farm out for a month but seen no activity at all.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> With all the rain and cold I just now got my traps out in my best location. Almost got the minivan stuck in the mud. Just hoping that the cold wet weather has delayed things a little. I've had the traps in my back yard and at my dad's farm out for a month but seen no activity at all.


Not much lost yet.
I bet the very next warm and humid day in our region, there will be swarms all over.


----------



## AR1

GregV said:


> Not much lost yet.
> I bet the very next warm and humid day in our region, there will be swarms all over.


And...it's a warm, sunny day and bees are investigating 2 of my backyard traps. Maybe just cleaning out the last bits of honey but hopefully scouts.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> And...it's a warm, sunny day and bees are investigating 2 of my backyard traps. Maybe just cleaning out the last bits of honey but hopefully scouts.


Weather is turning for sure into the swarm days in the upper Mid-West.

Yesterday afternoon scouts showed up on my back porch again.
Fingers crossed for a fresh swarm waiting for me at home after work.


This weekend have work to do in some out-yards.
Toes crossed to find bees in a few traps.
Swarm time is here and now for the Northern boys and gals!


----------



## aran

im expecting some action in next couple weeks. Last year i caught first swarm here in upstate NY June 8th.
All my traps are out ...we will see how it goes!


----------



## AR1

Got one! 10 feet from my front door. That'll keep the salesmen away!


----------



## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Got one! 10 feet from my front door. That'll keep the salesmen away!


Doesn't get much easier than that- congratulations!


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Got one! 10 feet from my front door. That'll keep the salesmen away!


Here you go!

Nothing for me yet as of today (just a case of some heavy scouting turned into an aborted swarm - darn!).
Unsure what happened there but my day turned sour today because of it - I almost thought it was a moved swarm already when I came to the out-yard.
Not. .
Weather turned rainy mid-day - maybe that aborted the swarm? 
The beekeeper on the other end could have interfered.
The swarm may have changed the direction.
OR (fingers crossed!) - they will show up tomorrow.


----------



## AR1

The wood for the box is true 1", a century old, saved from my dad's old barn built in the teens last century. The bait was a bunch of frames of old comb and drops of lemongrass.









I had a box there last year but no luck.






I know of 4 hives withing a half mile so maybe one of them lost a swarm.


----------



## Fishmaster50

This has been great year for swarms. I gotta bee over 20 already. Some places I got three swarms. Picked up two yesterday I knew the one was there for ten days the other one didn’t have one but checked last nite and one that didn’t have one had one and it’s was BIG! I thought I didn’t take rock off top but I did. Brought it home and weighed it it was 40 pounds!! Drew out ten frames and tons of bees. It’s been a great year!


----------



## MonkeyMcBean

I put 2 traps in my back yard. just stacked empty mediums with one frame in the top with some old brood comb and some lemongrass oil on a qtip in a baggie on the top. I set them out a month or so ago, maybe longer. 

Swarm came home to roost today.


----------



## GregB

Still 1/7.

The back porch is under constant scouting, but still no swarms.
One time the scouting was so intense, I was sure the swarm was coming.
Suddenly, they dropped off.
Well, they may have gotten intercepted on the other end (there is always the thrower and the catcher - just like in football).
The owner might have caught them from the temporary perch before they took off - good for him; bad for me.


----------



## clong

GregV said:


> Still 1/7.
> 
> The back porch is under constant scouting, but still no swarms.
> One time the scouting was so intense, I was sure the swarm was coming.
> Suddenly, they dropped off.
> Well, they may have gotten intercepted on the other end (there is always the thrower and the catcher - just like in football).
> The owner might have caught them from the temporary perch before they took off - good for him; bad for me.


Greg,

I saw this behavior 3 times this season at two different traps. You get your hopes up, then pffffft! Another reminder that we are not in control.


----------



## GregB

clong said:


> Greg,
> 
> I saw this behavior 3 times this season at two different traps. You get your hopes up, then pffffft! Another reminder that we are not in control.


Yep.
It is never over until it is really over.

Honestly though, the weather been terrible here - since I last posted on 6/1, there were hardly good swarming days at all here (cold OR rain OR both cold & rain).
The nights have been down to low 50Fs. 
Really crappy June so far.
Hopefully, some swarming pressure is building up and will blow up soon (not on my side, naturally).
Had to drastically expand one crowded hive a couple of weeks ago - hopefully, in time. 
Hopefully, they did not swarm on me since the last check.


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> Almost got the minivan stuck in the mud.


I actually got stuck a couple of weeks ago on my minivan.
For shame.

Fortunately, the farm worker was nearby.
He came on his 4x4 truck to help and also got stuck.
Finally, he yanked me and his own truck with his tractor.
I hope not to bother him again.


----------



## Litsinger

clong said:


> Another reminder that we are not in control.


And that is half the fun right? Kind of like fishing...sometimes you get a nibble and no catch, and sometimes nothing and then suddenly a pleasant surprise. Good luck to you guys the rest of the year.


----------



## AR1

I'm an hour south of you, a bit warmer but about the same this year. Chilly and wet. I am still wearing wool socks and a jacket indoors at night. 
My one catch seems to be thriving but I am gritting my teeth and not opening the box until I think there are new bees. That will be in 3 more days at the earliest if the queen started laying the day she moved in! 
Around here you can get swarms in July so I am not giving up hope. We get heavy flow in the Fall so a July swarm can make it. A neighbor had a swarm land in a tree in October!


----------



## GregB

AR1 said:


> ....Around here you can get swarms in July so I am not giving up hope. We get heavy flow in the Fall so a July swarm can make it. A neighbor had a swarm land in a tree in October!


No doubt.
One of my survivors this season - mid-July 2018 swarm.
Weather permitting, we can have a continuous flow here into October. 
The weather is the decider.


----------



## psm1212

Big fat zero swarms caught by swarm trap this season. Which is unusual, but my fault.

My swarm boxes typically have 8 frames with no foundation and a squirt of Swarm Commander in them. I have caught many swarms every year with this set up and could probably catch many more if I put more time into it.

But this year, despite all conventional wisdom that says "Don't Do It," I decided to put a couple frames of old brood comb in the middle and 6 frames _with foundation_. I was tired of catching a swarm and having to cut out and reassemble the wonky comb they always built in my swarm traps. 

Most of what I read said that it would not work. It didn't. Some things you just have to see for yourself. Lessons learned.


----------



## AR1

psm1212 said:


> Big fat zero swarms caught by swarm trap this season. Which is unusual, but my fault.
> 
> My swarm boxes typically have 8 frames with no foundation and a squirt of Swarm Commander in them. I have caught many swarms every year with this set up and could probably catch many more if I put more time into it.
> 
> But this year, despite all conventional wisdom that says "Don't Do It," I decided to put a couple frames of old brood comb in the middle and 6 frames _with foundation_. I was tired of catching a swarm and having to cut out and reassemble the wonky comb they always built in my swarm traps.
> 
> Most of what I read said that it would not work. It didn't. Some things you just have to see for yourself. Lessons learned.


Why would that not work? Seems like if you have the old brood comb you would attract swarms. Is it because of the foundation?

I have not tried Swarm Commander. Maybe that's why I usually only get one or two swarms a year.


----------



## psm1212

AR1 said:


> Why would that not work? Seems like if you have the old brood comb you would attract swarms. Is it because of the foundation?


AR1: I guess one season and 4 swarm traps does not scientifically prove much. But these locations and boxes are always fruitful when configured with foundationless frames. Yes, I believe that the foundations served as "barriers" and did not allow the bees to assess the full volume of the space they had to work with (42 liters). 

I don't KNOW that at all, but it makes sense to me. If anyone has thoughts about that, I would like to hear them.


----------



## AR1

psm1212 said:


> AR1: I guess one season and 4 swarm traps does not scientifically prove much. But these locations and boxes are always fruitful when configured with foundationless frames. Yes, I believe that the foundations served as "barriers" and did not allow the bees to assess the full volume of the space they had to work with (42 liters).
> 
> I don't KNOW that at all, but it makes sense to me. If anyone has thoughts about that, I would like to hear them.


I will usually put a few medium frames in over the entrance to create a gap area. Don't know if it helps or matters. Wouldn't be hard to pop the plastic out of a bunch of frames to open it up inside.


----------



## GregB

psm1212 said:


> I decided to put a couple frames of old brood comb in the middle and 6 frames _with foundation_.


I am curious of this case.

What type of foundation?
Plastic?


----------



## psm1212

GregV said:


> I am curious of this case.
> 
> What type of foundation?
> Plastic?


Yes. Plastic.

My assumption is that the scout bees will explore prospective homes and measure them for volume. Seeley's Democracy book has an illustration of how they do this. What I am guessing is that they can't determine the full extent of the cavity because the frames with foundation do not leave an impression that the box is an open 40 liters.

Obviously have no idea if I am correct or not about that. If they were desperate for a home, they would likely make do. But this is a heavily wooded area with no lack of housing.


----------



## GregB

Thanks for clarification.
Could be a useful detail - to avoid plastic foundation in traps.

I would blame on the plastic foundation (whatever was its impact - smell, impermeability, etc).
Especially, if the bees in your location have a good real estate market, they probably took better options.
Someone should do a study and see if (given a choice) bees will avoid plastic in their nests.

I watch tons of swarm trapping videos from Eastern Euro (like an obsession anymore).

The trappers (those I keep track of) care the least of the Seeley's book.
In fact, none of them ever heard of him or his books and yet they could teach him few things about trapping.

They do care to fill the traps with the very well used combs and often mix them up with natural wax foundation (checker-board).
These methods work very, very well - regardless of existing *natural *combs in the cavity (potentially) preventing the bees from cavity volume measurements.
Most everyone wants efficient trapping - catch a swarm/hive it/return the trap into rotation quickly (none of that cut-out business with crazy, wild combs).

OK, I guess I will continue doing what I am doing - using the old combs in the traps.
I don't use plastic foundation so will not get too concerned about it.


----------



## GregB

2/7.

At this site I have:
- one active hive going (well, went there today to break them up and found the bonus - this fresh swarm - likely just moved-in yesterday);
- a very cool 30 liter log trap I just refreshed the combs and fixed up, upper entrances too (but never lived-in before - that seems to kill off many chances);
- a very well primed 40-50 liter nuc box with 3 old frames in it and bottom entrance, only about 1-2 feet above ground.
















The bees voted for the "very well primed 40-50 liter nuc box".
I wish they took the log hive and stayed in it as-if ferals.
A smaller swarm (covers 3 Dadant frames).
But today is only June 30th and pasture around is great for another 2-3 months, and they should do fine (unless very mite'y and not mite-hardy enough).
Gave them 3 more half-build frames for work and left alone just as-is for now. 
Will move them later to a different yard when have time.
I got the yard #7 to populate - so now I have bees for it.


----------



## FrankBarbee

I have had 5 traps out with LGO in them this year. Normally catch 1 or 2 but this year, zero. Doesn't help that someone keeps shutting the entrance on 2 of them, have the metal discs to be able to open and shut the openings. both of the traps in question take quite a bit of effort to move the disc, but 90% of the time I check them they are shut. Anyone else having things like that happen or am I just the lucky one.


----------



## Charlie B

First I’ve heard of that! Maybe change your trap sites???


----------



## GregB

FrankBarbee said:


> I have had 5 traps out with LGO in them this year. Normally catch 1 or 2 but this year, zero. Doesn't help that someone keeps shutting the entrance on 2 of them, have the metal discs to be able to open and shut the openings. both of the traps in question take quite a bit of effort to move the disc, but 90% of the time I check them they are shut. Anyone else having things like that happen or am I just the lucky one.


Take the discs completely off.
You don't need them as a critical trap piece.
Yet they make closing the traps "for you" by someone/something way TOO easy.


----------



## elmer_fud

FrankBarbee said:


> I have had 5 traps out with LGO in them this year. Normally catch 1 or 2 but this year, zero.


I know you are a ways away from me, but it sounds like it has been a slow swarm season here. I am on the local swarm call list and have not been called yet. I emailed one of the dispatchers and he said he has only had a few (less than 5) swarm calls.


----------



## AR1

Could it be? Been watching bees congregate in front of my front porch AGAIN! They were bugging me inside my garage and I noticed they were not acting like foragers. They were circling the walls and investigating holes in the ceiling (plumbing repairs). No, do not want a swarm in my garage. So I quick took my boxes outside on the front steps and stuck in all the used frames I could find, along with two drops of lemongrass at the back. Now, two hours later there are hundreds of bees going crazy out there. 
I worked last night, a 13 hour shift at the hospital, then I came home and seal-coated my driveway. So I am soooo beat, but no way can I sleep now. I slept through the last swarm that came to my front porch. No way I'm missing this one! Pics later (assuming the swarm actually does show up!)


----------



## GregB

At least some action is happening elsewhere.
Quiet here.
July flow is going too - pretty normal to be quiet for now - but the season is not over.

The swarm #2 here (pretty darn sure now - based on the bees that I watched) was at once scouting my backyard porch trap (8 feet above ground) AND the tree grove mini-yard trap (2 feet above ground; half-mile away from the porch).
So the grove trap won for any old reason.
This time the scouting went for 1-2 weeks, almost non-stop, with slight pauses.
When the scouts dropped of from the porch trap I thought - darn! the keeper must have made a split or something - well, turns out I was competing with myself. Haha!


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## nickhefferan

Southwest Michigan, greater Fennville/Kalamazoo River region

Five traps I put out this year: 

all new boxes - scrap wood, about 40L volume
with foundationless extra-deep frames
one frame with brown brood comb
and a baggie with papertowel and 8 drops of lemon grass oil in them.
hung about chest-to-head height on trees in the forest within a 6 mile radius of my house.

so far this season: 
May 30 - one trap had scouting , but that didn't result in a swarm.

June 14th - called to collect a swarm hanging near someones deck on the lakeshore, took down one swarm trap to help collect the swarm.

July 15th - that same trap that had been scouted has now been occupied by a swarm.











The other traps are still hanging, planning to leave them up through August.


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## AR1

Well the hoped-for swarm on my front steps didn't materialize. There are still a handful of bees that seem to have taken up residence. Perhaps scouts that really liked the place and can't give up hope. It's funny watching them sun themselves on the front step and groom. They defend the entrance too, just as if they had a hive behind them. Still some hope.

Plan for today is to find the queen from my late May swarm catch and sequester her in a nuc, and hope to get some queen cells started, then do the fly-back in 10 days. That hive is really doing well. They have a second deep full of nectar (maybe some capped now since I have not checked in a few days) and I put a third deep on top where I feed, plus several frames of gnarly comb for them to repair and a few naked frames I hope they will start new comb on prior to the flyback split.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Well the hoped-for swarm on my front steps *didn't materialize*. .....


Yet - very much possible.
Last year I had a trap being scouted for a month non-stop - before some swarm moved in (no idea if the original scouts finally moved in or someone else moved in).
This year they scouted my back porch trap for ~2 weeks non-stop - then moved into a competing trap (at my other location).
So this can drag on for days and weeks...


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## GregB

nickhefferan said:


> Southwest Michigan, greater Fennville/Kalamazoo River region
> 
> Five traps I put out this year:
> 
> all new boxes - scrap wood, about 40L volume...........
> 
> .


This reminds me my first trapping season - all new boxes - zero swarms.
Any time you have a chance to "prime" some of these new boxes - do it - even as a quick, temporary nuc/split if that comes along.


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## Litsinger

nickhefferan said:


> July 15th - that same trap that had been scouted has now been occupied by a swarm.


Congratulations, Nick. You've now entered the elite company of successful bee swarm trappers .

Good luck to you the rest of the year.

Russ


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## bushpilot

I put 4 traps out this year, and got the same results as every other year - none. (The traps are used deep boxes, some have old comb, all have a puff of Swarm Commander under the cover and on the landing board. But set about a foot off the ground, which is obviously less than ideal.)

I'll try again next year. Looking for that magic location.


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## spencer

2nd swarm caught on July 12th. This was in the same spot that I caught one last month. It was a big one that went into both nuc boxes.
Swarm commander has paid for itself!


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## Litsinger

spencer said:


> 2nd swarm caught on July 12th. This was in the same spot that I caught one last month. It was a big one that went into both nuc boxes.
> Swarm commander has paid for itself!
> View attachment 50141


Spencer:

Now that it is a neat photo- thank you for sharing. I assume there was only one queen?

Did you ultimately end up combining both halves or did you make both queenright?


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## Litsinger

bushpilot said:


> I put 4 traps out this year, and got the same results as every other year - none.


Bushpilot:

Sorry to hear about you striking-out. Are there any local bee clubs / forums you can get on where you could attempt to locate existing feral colonies?


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## spencer

Litsinger said:


> Spencer:
> 
> Now that it is a neat photo- thank you for sharing. I assume there was only one queen?
> 
> Did you ultimately end up combining both halves or did you make both queenright?


I did combine them into a single deep with 1 drawn comb and 9 new frames w/foundation. They are now bearding and about half are inside the hive with the eggs the queen is laying. Weird.


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## Litsinger

spencer said:


> I did combine them into a single deep with 1 drawn comb and 9 new frames w/foundation. They are now bearding and about half are inside the hive with the eggs the queen is laying. Weird.


Interesting- I suppose either way it's free bees, right? 

Congratulations on the nice-sized swarm catch.

Russ


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## AR1

It sure is interesting having a trap at my front door where I can watch the action. Had a huge surge of scouts a week or so ago, then it dwindled to a handful and the swarm never came. This morning it was a second huge surge, maybe a hundred bees swarming the front entrance and all around the seams and edges trying to get inside. Defending the front entrance were (I guess) the same handful that had been hanging out there all week. The new bees slaughtered the old bees and now they are lying dead all around the front of the hive and on the landing board. One group of scouts killing another group? Swarm coming in? Who knows.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> ....... One group of scouts killing another group? Swarm coming in? Who knows.


Yep. Killed them. Does happen.
A swarm someplace has serious plans for your trap - went into a killing spree.
Best of course to have two swarms coming over in few days, and grab them both.

But is not up to your to decide.
The beekeeper on the other end can throw a monkey wrench into your program too. Hehehe.... You hope - not.

I vacated a couple of mobile nucs and keep them at the "ready".
Just nothing is happening here.


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## odfrank

Killing each other is usually a good sign. They almost always arrive after those bloodbaths, but I had one rumble after which they didn't.
I had this nice one fly in yesterday after weeks of scouting:


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## AR1

I admit to hoping the other beekeeper is not very competent.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> I admit to hoping the other beekeeper is not very competent.


It also can be a very competent keeper - with his/her hands full and such.
Big guys often don't chase down after each and every swarm - have bigger fish to fry.
And then life happens also sometimes.


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## AR1

GregV said:


> It also can be a very competent keeper - with his/her hands full and such.
> Big guys often don't chase down after each and every swarm - have bigger fish to fry.
> And then life happens also sometimes.


I have spotted 5 backyard beehives within a half-mile of my house. Those are just the ones visible from the street I happened to drive past, so I imagine there are more.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> I have spotted 5 backyard beehives within a half-mile of my house. Those are just the ones visible from the street I happened to drive past, so I imagine there are more.


I suppose one will easily spot a "big guy" operation nearby - it is true.
I don't know of big guys near me either - good thing in many ways.

Anyway, fingers crossed for you. 
Hopefully this hot and muggy weekend you'll get to watch a swarm moving in.


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## odfrank

Brood from bait hive catch in foggy weather area.


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## AR1

My garage got invaded by scouts again this afternoon. These bees are driving me batty. They were investigating the one box I had left in there, a ten deep with a few leftover frames that didn't get put out for a trap this year. I moved it outside next to the garage and eventually most of the scouts did as well. They were mobbing that thing, but will they ever actually come?

Honestly I considered just leaving it in the garage to see what would happen, and just telling my wife 'oops!' but I was afraid of them nesting in the car or some other unhappy place. There are now 3 traps across the front of my house and all three are getting visitors. I can't imagine what the neighbors thing those things are.


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## AR1

IT'S NOT TOO LATE!

I just caught a swarm! My own bees in my own back yard. My daughter looked out and said "Those bees look mad!"

Thousands, swirling around in the air. I geared up and went out back. They certainly were not aggressive, so I decided swarm. It was fun watching them come pouring tumbling out the entrance and taking off. Fortunately, they lit in a small apple tree about 20 feet in front of the hive. I grabbed a hive body, clipped the branch and shook them in and slapped a top on. Then stole a frame of brood from another hive and stuck it in, and a frame of food from the home hive and stuck that in too. Loads of excitement, since I have never seen a swarm in action before.

This hive was queenless and just 2 days ago I heard piping, so a swarm with a virgin queen? 

Whatever! I'm pretty thrilled right now.


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## Charlie B

It is with deep sadness that I must report that I had my *** handed to me by Oliver this swarm season. He was generous enough to allow me to compete at some of his catch areas and it was a rout everywhere.:w:


It is much to painful for me to go into any detail so I will not be taking questions at this time.


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## JWPalmer

I hope Ollie was kind enough to use a silver platter when he served you! Bragging rights to odfrank.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> IT'S NOT TOO LATE!........
> Whatever! I'm pretty thrilled right now.



See?

I am still hopeful to improve my current 2/7 standing - about a month to go for that.
Though the best seasoned nuc hives are in usage now (not great for the trapping program).

Not that I need any more bees.
I really don't at the moment.
Just being greedy.
But capturing someone else's escaped Russian queen never hurts either.


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## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> It is with deep sadness that I must report that I had my *** handed to me by Oliver this swarm season. He was generous enough to allow me to compete at some of his catch areas and it was a rout everywhere.:w:
> 
> It is much to painful for me to go into any detail so I will not be taking questions at this time.



Charlie should not be so modest. He did manage to Tom Sawyer me into allowing him to set traps at my sites where he caught one at two sites. This of course lowers my annual count as his catches could have been mine. Then he Tom Sawyered me into giving him two of 28 queen cells I raised AND mating them at MY yard with MY drones. What is he going to swindle me out of next?


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> Whatever! I'm pretty thrilled right now.


Way to go, AR1. Catching your own counts too...


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## AR1

Litsinger said:


> Way to go, AR1. Catching your own counts too...


I am astounded that they swarmed. That hive was a swarm I got May 30 or 31. They built up fast and I removed the queen into a nuc July 16th to make new queens. I then split that hive into 3 once I had a bunch of queen cells. 

So from one swarm in May I now have 5 hives. Not sure how many are queen-right. Figure I'll probably be combining some of these later if the queens don't pan out.


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## Charlie B

Be careful AR1, you will become a swarm addict like Oliver and I.


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## Litsinger

Charlie B said:


> Be careful AR1, you will become a swarm addict like Oliver and I.


If I could be half as skilled at trapping as you and OdFrank are, I'd be thrilled!


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## GregB

Litsinger said:


> If I could be half as skilled at trapping as you and OdFrank are, I'd be thrilled!


It is just these two seems to be doing it "full-time" and on a scale of hundreds sites.
Haha..


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## AR1

Charlie B said:


> Be careful AR1, you will become a swarm addict like Oliver and I.


Oh, already addicted. It's fun like the lottery, except I actually win occasionally. I've had a dozen or so traps out every year for 3 or 4 years now and always gotten at least one swarm. This year two, and both at my home. Plan for tomorrow is to visit my distant traps for a look. Been about two weeks so anything could be in there, maybe a winning Lotto ticket!


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## odfrank

GregV said:


> It is just these two seems to be doing it "full-time" and on a scale of hundreds sites.
> Haha..


We are not doing it at hundreds of sites or even hundreds of traps. Nor do we do it full time. The only reason we catch a lot is that we are Piss Poor Beekeepers and have a lot of black comb from all of our dead outs. And live in a favorable climate that supports a lot of hives both domestic and feral. Any idiot can catch a bait swarm if there are swarms to be caught. We just fill a box with some black combs, drip in some LGO or SCL and set it out in some convenient place. Neither of us climb ladders or hang traps from trees. At our competition sites this year we sat traps on a seat wall, decaying raffia chair, decks stairs and tables. I have caught 38, which in the past 10-15 % do not take. This picture is our competition at Charlie's cabin in a redwood forest. We both failed to catch one there this year. Not many swarms in redwood forests.


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## GregB

odfrank said:


> We are not doing it at hundreds of sites or even hundreds of traps. Nor do we do it full time. ......



I was, of course, kidding (which I normally do, smiley or not).
Nevertheless - you, guys, are the champions in this department.
CA climate helps too if any idiot can catch a swarm in sub-tropics.

Unfortunately, I lost one of my most dependable locations.
That, probably cost me a swarm or two this season (landed two there last year). 
Sniff....

PS: the "eagle" went quiet somewhere; 
as I probably correctly predicted - the "bee thieves" moved their bee stash yard - no more hundreds and hundreds of swarms.


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## Charlie B

I think more of myself as a mite and wax moth farmer rather than a skilled and experienced beekeeper!!


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## GregB

I am pretty sure my final # for the year - 2/7.
Less then I expected.
But I also lost a very productive trapping yard.
Oh well, I have more bees than I have winter-worthy equipment anyway.


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## Michael Palmer

Great trapping year. 5/0 Trapped 5 swarms in my dooryard. Set out no traps.


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## GregB

Michael Palmer said:


> Great trapping year. 5/0 Trapped 5 swarms in my dooryard. Set out no traps.


Well, considering I got both swarms in my own yards (the backyard and an out-yard 1/2 miles away) - I got 2/0 then. 
All my traps are just empty hives in my own yards.
Hehe...

OK, 5/0 math does not work.
Division by zero problem.


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## hankstump

I set up about 10 boxes around town, and got 15 swarms last year. Oddly, I got two swarms without queens last year. Swarms were normal in all other respects, but after 2 weeks of leaving them alone, there was no queen or eggs. Left them for a bit longer, and they were indeed queenless. Used the bees in other colonies. 

Phil in Fremont.


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