# How to go forward in the fight against Varroa



## Dinor (Mar 6, 2007)

How should we go forward in the fight against Varroa?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I dont know if you can call alternative methods of mite control, as in Oxalic Acid and Formic "natural beekeeping practices".


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Dinor said:


> How should we go forward in the fight against Varroa?


I think it probably helps if we stop looking at it as a fight and see it more as 'achieving balance'.

It seems to me that when we look at a situation from a 'warlike' point of view, i.e. that there is a battle to be fought, that conditions our minds to make a violent response. In the case of varroa, that has meant that we take up arms in the form of miticides like Bayvarol and attack the 'problem', which is how we have labeled the mite.

If we look at it another way, and say that here is something in nature that has gotten out of balance (due largely to our actions, but let's not waste time apportioning blame here) and our challenge is to find ways to create the conditions in which it can return to a state of balance. Looking at the situation from that point of view feels very different and sets up a different state of mind: we start to think along the lines of 'how can we help the bees to help themselves?' rather than 'what weapons can we use against this enemy?'.

So, one thing that is within our control, as beekeepers, is the type of hive we use, and we should, IMO, be paying a lot of attention to the best size and shape and style of accommodation we are offering our bees. What is the best width-to-height ratio? What are the thermodynamics of different hive designs and how does this affect the way that bees behave with respect to mites? How often is it OK to open hives, and in what air temperatures? All these questions are being addressed, somewhat piecemeal, by a small and scattered group of beekeepers who are experimenting with various designs of top bar hive, but I see little evidence that they are even being considered by 'mainstream' beekeepers - especially the commercials.


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## Dinor (Mar 6, 2007)

buckbee said:


> I think it probably helps if we stop looking at it as a fight and see it more as 'achieving balance'.
> 
> It seems to me that when we look at a situation from a 'warlike' point of view, i.e. that there is a battle to be fought, that conditions our minds to make a violent response. ................


Buckbee we are obviously on the same side here and the semantics of my question are not quite as important as the subject matter. Yes, I would be happy with a stable sustainable bee varroa symbiosis but I believe it is at least a struggle to get to that point. 

How we reach this balance is most important. The chemical route has been tried and failed. If we allow scientists to change the bee gene structure and this achieves the bee varroa balance but also had an unforseen dominant side effect, of which I am not even going to try to guess at, we will be stuck with it! It's not like changing the gene structure of say a pig which you can control if it goes on to breed or not. Even with apiaries that are supposedly remote, the controls that would be easy with the pig would be impossible with the bees. 

Maybe the battle is not with varroa after all!


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Dinor said:


> Maybe the battle is not with varroa after all!


I think you are right there!


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## MichiganBee (Mar 20, 2008)

Heres a pretty good read on mite populations and the dynamics of.

http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=40


If it doesnt hyperlink copy and paste above URL. Pretty amazing study IMO


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## Lucus76 (Mar 18, 2008)

*frightening*

the more important balance that needs to be achieved is not the balance between pathogens and bees, (that will happen on its own if we choose not to interfere) It is the balance between bees and agriculture. we have spent years breeding better mites,AFB, EFB, Beatles. And we need to use the same practices to breed the better Bee. However, to stop medicating now after we have weakened the genetic stock so severely would be catastrophic. agriculture would not absorb the impact. I believe we need to slow down on the meds for now and pick a section of colonies to remain untreated, if you find possible survivor stock work out a trade with your queen breeder and enable them to mass produce her daughter (you should have pick of the litter of course).
It took a long time to dig this hole and it seems it will take some time to dig us out. I think we also know this will have to be done without the help of the majority of the large commercial operations. 

Regards, 
Luke (Humble Observer)

For the record: my favorite solution is to stop medicating 100% let only the strong survive Ctrl/Alt/Delete.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I quit fighting Varroa about six years ago. Life has been much better since, for me and the bees.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

the poll is missing an obvious alternative(s)

use of soft chems like OA, formic, and thymol (apigurd)

and the most important

use of mite resistant bees like Russian of VSH


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## CSbees (Aug 7, 2007)

KEEP MITE RESISTANT BEES. The genetically superior bees will live through survivor colonies regardless fo the pests which present themselves.


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

how about altering the dna of the varroa. What if we make varroa mites that are harmful to other varroa mites... Make like...attack varroa or something. Or maybe make varroa that carry a virus that kill other varroa? Just an idea.

or we could create varroa with a gene which deforms the suction cup hands or some other vital part of the mite.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

hummingberd said:


> how about altering the dna of the varroa. What if we make varroa mites that are harmful to other varroa mites... Make like...attack varroa or something. Or maybe make varroa that carry a virus that kill other varroa? Just an idea.
> 
> or we could create varroa with a gene which deforms the suction cup hands or some other vital part of the mite.


Just so long as you make them (individually) sign a legally-watertight contract that ensures that they will only behave exactly as we want them to behave and under no circumstances will they ever evolve into anything that could cause harm to bees. 

Say this with the voice of Peter Lorre: "how about altering the dna of the varroa". Still sound like a good idea?


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

buckbee said:


> Just so long as you make them (individually) sign a legally-watertight contract that ensures that they will only behave exactly as we want them to behave and under no circumstances will they ever evolve into anything that could cause harm to bees.
> 
> Say this with the voice of Peter Lorre: "how about altering the dna of the varroa". Still sound like a good idea?


It was just a silly suggestion. Not a serious one.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Say this with the voice of Peter Lorre: "how about altering the dna of the varroa". Still sound like a good idea?

LOL. That does change things a bit...


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## Sarge (Jun 26, 2006)

What will work for the hobbiest with a few hives may not be practical for the commercial pollinator with many thousands.
I think the answer is here for the hobbiest, but making the leap to commercial is the problem as many options are labor intensive.


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