# Hot dipped woodenware...how long last?



## MrGreenThumb (Apr 22, 2007)

I finish all my hives usually with an exterior grade cedar stain. Looks nice and has good UV protection.

Now what about hot dipped woodenware...is it as 'effective' as exterior paints and stains? Does the hot dipped come off after a year or two?

THX


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Check with Queen Right Colonies in Spencer, Ohio. They offer hot dip paraffin wax treatments on wooden ware. The treatments are supposed to give you a minimum of 20 years protection on your hive wooden ware. 

I bought several dipped hive bodies from them about 4 years ago and they still look the same as the day I purchased them. The wax is absorbed into the wood during treatment and it does not come off.

http://www.queenrightcolonies.com/


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## Peter de Bruyn Kops (Jun 17, 2007)

*hot dipping wood*

Hot dipping in paraffin might be better referred to as boiling. I aim for a paraffin temperature around 250 degrees F. Bubbles will come out of the wood for quite some time as the internal moisture boils off. It is not necessary to get all the moisture out of the wood. Paraffin will soak into the wood. When you pull the wood out and it has cooled, there is no significant wax residue on the outside. If you dip old or weathered wood, it may absorb more paraffin and this paraffin may ooze out if the wood is left in the hot sun.

Hot dipping only needs to be done once, unlike painting.

During the dipping operation, a full face respirator is advisable, and other safety precautions should be considered carefully.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

>Hot dipping only needs to be done once, unlike painting.

and painting can be done to at the same time, just roll on the paint while the wax is still hot. 

Hey, and you dont have to primer what a deal.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Why would you want to paint this:

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/DippingBoxes5.jpg

It's hard to imagine that the paint would stick. Are you using oil based enamel?

I haven't been doing it long enough to have any idea how long it will last, but it is "boiled" and does soak into the wood. The water just beads up on it.


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## BlueEggFarmer (Jun 16, 2007)

My wooden ware is also from Queen Right Colonies in Spencer, treated with paraffin. Super folks there.

The wood hives look great but I would like to add alittle color stain to them.
Will stain work with the paraffin coating?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

>Why would you want to paint this:

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_0806.jpg

>It's hard to imagine that the paint would stick. Are you using oil based enamel?

The TRICK is to roll on the paint while the wax is hot.

Why we paint is to differentiate from other keepers, that why the odd color. If a grower see's hives in a feild and they are the blue he/she knows immediatly who's they belong too.

If a crop duster see those blue colors they have my #ph on speed dial, they know who they belong to from the air. One, in this business, has to look at the WHOLE picture as to everyone involved.

If you ask a grower/farmer who's bees are in that feild, if they asked what color are they... you have your answer.


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## MrGreenThumb (Apr 22, 2007)

Queen Right...do they have any better woodenware the buget grade? What I saw, when there a few months ago, was all pine woodeware with MANY nots...some looked like they might even fall out in a short time.

THX
Mike


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Keith,

Latex or oil enamel?


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## Randy Oliver (Nov 27, 2006)

Michael,
Australians say that two coats of oil base are best. Acrylic is OK, but doesn't last as long.

I've hot dipped all my equip going on 25 years, no paint. I've got thousands of dipped boxes. Dipped for generally about a minute at 300°F. Mixture of 3 pts paraffin, 1 pt pine rosin. Am going to try microcrystalline wax soon.

Equipment in sun and rain lasts for at least 25 years, but works best with a redipping every 5 years or so. Termites will eventually get into dipped wood in ground contact. I copper napthenate ground cleats before dipping.

I will be writing an article on this subject soon.

Randy Oliver


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

MrGreenThumb said:


> Queen Right...do they have any better woodenware the buget grade? What I saw, when there a few months ago, was all pine woodeware with MANY nots...some looked like they might even fall out in a short time.
> 
> THX
> Mike


You may have caught them at a bad time, low on inventory. In the past they have carried different grades of wooden ware. In any case, you could still bring in your own boxes, whether used or new, and they will charge a standard fee for dipping.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Micheal,
oil base paint and or stain, when the wax is almost tacky.
Keith


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Michael Bush said:


> Why would you want to paint this:
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/images/DippingBoxes5.jpg
> 
> ...


Paint actually sticks very well when applied to a hot box after it is pulled from the tank. It sucks the paint into the wood with the paraffin as it is cooling.

That said... I don't see the need for painting a dipped box. Extra expense and effort with no real benefit that I can see.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I won't ever paint my equipment again. (I do paint my pollen traps as I don't want the wax to build up on the screens)

Hot dipping is the only way to go if you have any significant woodenware to care for. As stated elsewhere, the initial cost can be prohibitive for those with only a few hives.


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## Tucbar (Apr 21, 2007)

Ok so if I am looking into Hot dipping some equipment how much wax/rosin do I buy? I have no idea how many punds of wax/rosin it takes to make a gallon of liquid.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

For estimation purposes "a pint's a pound the world around". A pound of wax is about a pint. The rosin is a little lighter, but it's still close enough for estimation.

It depends on your tank, of course, but a hundred pounds of wax and fifty pounds of rosin would be a good start.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

If memory serves me right I started with 300lbs of paraffin wax and 150lbs of rosin. My tank is large though. A smaller tank would of course need less. I use a 2:1 ratio although some use 3:1.

If you don't have alot of equipment to dip... I'm not sure I would invest the money. You can buy alot of paint and/or new boxes for the cost of the dipping set-up.

Now if you have a decent amt of equipment... then hot dipping is the only way to go!


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

I've got a severe problem in my yards with termites, the hives I've got that have been dipped stand up to the termites very well, the rest are painted. The painted ones aren't so hardy, they only last a short while until the termites get their teeth sunk in, I've got hives that the termites have feasted on and are literally just a skin of paint now, still got bees in them but if I ever try to move them it will be chaos.

I'm planning on dipping boxes that have already been painted, what I'm not too sure of is if the dipping will have the same effect if the hive has already been painted?

Termites don't like diesel oil or kerosene, now spraying that around the base of my hives wouldn't be a smart idea, but I've been thinking of mixing it into some paint and then painting the boxes, might have a longer lasting effect then normal paint, has anyone already tried this?


Keith,
Looked at your photos on photobucket, nice setup you've got there, hoping to get to that stage myself soon. Just a question, why the overturned buckets on top of your hives in the bee-yard?

Thanks

Rob


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

I dip all boxes in 92% parfin and 8% copper napth at 200 degrees for 12 hours. Some I dipped 15 years ago still look new and water beads up on them like wax on a car! I dont paint anything anymore!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'm planning on dipping boxes that have already been painted, what I'm not too sure of is if the dipping will have the same effect if the hive has already been painted?

I dipped all my painted ones. I don't know how much it helps, but it couldn't hurt.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Michael Bush said:


> >I'm planning on dipping boxes that have already been painted, what I'm not too sure of is if the dipping will have the same effect if the hive has already been painted?
> 
> I dipped all my painted ones. I don't know how much it helps, but it couldn't hurt.


Did the paint bubble up on you? I found that some paint will bubble up in 300deg mixture and some will just leave a thick waxy coat on the surface. I didn't like the result at all.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

I thought the copper naphate was a petroleum based product. Is that true? Did you mix a petroleum product into the hot wax? If so, that sounds rather scary.


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

I don't mind if the paint bubbles when they're dipped, I'd prefer termite proof hives than pretty ones.
I'm going to dip some painted hives, and coat some non-dipped with kerosene, take them to a yard and see which have the best results after six months. If they both stand up to the termites well, then I'll just choose the cheapest.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Did the paint bubble up on you? I found that some paint will bubble up in 300deg mixture and some will just leave a thick waxy coat on the surface. I didn't like the result at all.

It was already peeling some. I didn't notice any more peeling. But then mine is only 250 F.

>and coat some non-dipped with kerosene

They will smell like kerosene for years to come. I've used diesel and kerosene for release agent on plywood forms for years. The smell never comes out of the wood.

Paraffin is orderless, tasteless and nonreactive. Kerosene smells bad, tastes bad and is volitile and reactive.

The kerosene might be an ok idea for stands, but I wouldn't want it inside of a hive.


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

The hives I plan to coat with kerosene will only be coated on the outside and left out to dry for a while. The idea is to use the kerosene more as a deterent for termites than a protection for the wood, as they say "Prevention is better than a cure". I might try tying some sponge round the base of the legs on the stands and soaking them in kerosene and see wether that will work, but in the past I've smeared axle grease on the stand legs and after a while the termites just build a little bridge over the grease and head on up to the hive.
Hopefully kerosene won't be a deterent for the bees aswell, but if I don't try I'll never know.


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## Ardilla (Jul 17, 2006)

Troy said: "I thought the copper naphate was a petroleum based product. Is that true? Did you mix a petroleum product into the hot wax? If so, that sounds rather scary."

Paraffin is a petroleum product that comes from oil refineries. Paraffin is perfectly compatible with naphthalene compounds. 80-90% of diesel fuel is composed of paraffins and naphthalenes (the rest is benzene, olefins, etc.)


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Is there any advantage to adding copper compounds to the parafin? I thought that the parafin itself was supposed to be a pretty good preservative.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

Ardilla,

Yes, I agree that strictly speaking paraffin is a petroleum product too, but it is a whole lot less volatile when heated over an open flame. 

Paraffin will only catch fire if it is heated very hot and then it gets into an open flame. I would have thought that the copper naphanate would be volatile enough when heated to catch fire without all the heating etc. 

Just sounds a lot more dangerous to me than the paraffin alone (which is plenty dangerous anyway).


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