# Brushy Mountain Hive Top Feeder



## JMP (Mar 28, 2011)

I have several of these but have experienced a fair amount of drowning last season. Just received their new catalog and it indicates "improved floats" on this feeder. Does anyone have any input on the newer feeder? trying to minimize drowning. Thanks. 

John


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## Riff Raff (Oct 5, 2011)

Hey John:

I dunno about the improved floats but from what I know, they went from an all wood float to a wood and plastic float. I bought the latter style and used it last year. It was killing bees like crazy! 

I called BMBF and explained my situation, and they assured me that some bees would die. I just couldn't take it though so I built my own floats. 

Using pine, I ripped 3/4 inch wide and 1/2 inch thick strips, and then cut about a 1/16th of an inch deep and maybe 3/8th of an inch wide rabbet on the edge of the strips. I then took some number 8 hardware cloth and stapled it into the frame I glued and nailed together. According to my notebook, I cut two 16 3/4 inch strips and two 6 1/8 inch strips. Total assembled length was 18 1/4 inches. I made two of these. 

As you see in the pictures, there was a marked difference in the dead bees. After a week, I had no dead bees with my new floats. It looks like the supplied float was just buoyant enough with the plastic alone and when any number of bees hopped on to feed, well, enter the drowning pool. Before I made my own floats I stapled some window screen strips to the end of the feeder top edge and threw the free end into the syrup, hoping the bees would cling to it like a lifeline if they got into trouble, but it didn't work. That's when I knew I had to do something different. 

I love Brushy Mountain woodware but this was one thing I didn't like about the feeders. I bought two hives from them last week and I passed on two feeders for this reason, I didn't want to buy something so specialized only to have to modify it to make it work. So, I am making quick and effective gallon can feeders. They're cheaper and I never saw a dead bee around the can! The only downside, they take two mediums or one deep to house and there is a lot of dead space that needs to be accounted for. 

Good luck.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

The plastic floats drowned lots of bees. They then added the wooden sides so that the floats would actually float.
They really should have sent those out gratis to everyone who had the new plastic ones, but of course they did not.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Do you not like the top feeders that fit on top of a migratory or inner cover top. I use quarts, half gallon, and gallon jugs. The reason I like these is, 1. Don't need a super around them. 2, No robbing because the top is tight and nothing can get in. 3. only requires a jar cap with holes and the jars. 4. In early Spring, if there is some left in the jar overnight, the morning sun will heat the jar and the bees start taking it early.

I feed mine, ( I only have 125- 175 hives) by filling jars, placing them in the cardboard cartons that jars come in, and as I drive to each nuc I pull the jar off, and insert a jar from the truck, move down the line to the next ones. I have never had one blow off, or had a critter to knock it off. They fit tight into the hole, which is drilled with a hole saw.

Here is a link to my photobucket acct that shows a few of the nucs with the feeders on top. Works for me.

http://s841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/cchoganjr/?action=view&current=100_2110.jpg

cchoganjr


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## S.M.N.Bee (Aug 9, 2011)

JPM

Like Riff Raff said the floats need to be made out of 3/8" pine. It is my feeling that bees can feed in such large mumbers that they sink the floats in some of the current designs
I build my own and had some issues with bees drowning before I also increased the thickness to 3/8 inches. Very few dead since.

John


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

My friend's bees were using his empty mann lake top feeder for a mortuary chamber, hauling all the dead bees up there. Until he put dry sugar in this winter. 

Nice pic Cleo - really NICE hive stands there. And the feeders look practical. May have to build a couple of migratory covers, running low on telescoping. . 

Gypsi


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## JMP (Mar 28, 2011)

Great advice from all of you. Thanks very much. 

Since I am a newer beekeeper I am still "feeling out" what works and what does not. Someone recommended the hive top feeders as the way to go. After last season I am thinking its not the way to go unless you modify like Riff Raff and S.M.N. Bee have suggested. 

Riff Raff I had similar fatalitites with my older style feeder. Think I will use your design to update my older style feeder and go with jugs for other hives. 

Winevines? Gratis hmm? Does anyone step up to the plate anymore? I agree with you! 

And I agree with Gypsi, nice picture! 

Thanks again all. 

John


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

JMP..Gypsi... Over the years I have tried about every way of feeding bees possible, and I like the jar through the migratory top, best of all for the reasons stated above. Biggest drawback is finding gallon jugs with a standard G Mason top (70mm). Half gallon/quart/pint is no problem. Most of the jars are glass, another problem, but glass has it advantages too, (see below). I carry them to out yards in the cardboard containers they came in, plus some wooden box holders I have made.

For winter, I fill a jar cap with cement and place it in the hole. Bees will propolize around the cap, and waterproff it. In Spring, a screwdriver will remove the cap, and the feeder can be placed on the hive without breaking the seal, opening the hive. If you use glass jars in early Spring, the morning Sun will heat the sugar water, or corn syrup quickly, and the bees will start taking it.

I use Advantech sheets to cut the migratory tops. I think I get 10 from a 4X8 sheet that costs $29.00 ($2.98 each) They last forever, little to no warp, even if not painted. The hole saw at Lowe's is $17.00. I use these tops on all hives, and nucs, overwintered for sale the next year. If we have a very severe winter, or lots of snow, I sometimes place a regular telescoping top, over the migratory top, just for extra insulation. Kentucky doesn't normally have horribly bad winters,..certainly not this year.

Everyone has their preferences, and that is O.K. These really work well for me. cchoganjr


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Unfortunately, I bought a couple of frame feeders from Dadant - just so I'd have a couple of "in hive" feeders around. Any way to drown-proof them? (they do have a textured side for the bees to climb out on)

And Cleo - where are you getting the Advantech?

Gypsi


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## Riff Raff (Oct 5, 2011)

Gypsi said:


> Unfortunately, I bought a couple of frame feeders from Dadant - just so I'd have a couple of "in hive" feeders around. Any way to drown-proof them? (they do have a textured side for the bees to climb out on)
> 
> Gypsi


Gypsi, what about a piece of wood? Maybe a 1/8th of an inch thick by less than the length and width of the feeder? That way the bees could still suck up syrup but not fall in ? Or a piece of Styrofoam, definitely easier to form but not as durable.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Gypsi said:


> Any way to drown-proof them?


I put a 3/4in dowel in- and fill them slowly


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Advantech is available at Lowes, Home Depot, most any lumber supply. Actually I don't buy very much. I get small pieces from contractors that use it for subflooring. Doesn't cost anything, but I normally give them a jar or two honey. cchoganjr


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## JMP (Mar 28, 2011)

Ok I don't mean to sound stupid but what is Advantech?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I could count on my fingers and toes the number of bees I have drowned in zip lock baggie feeders.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

guess I should buy some zip loc baggies. Can you draw a diagram of how the bees get the sugar water out of them? For us really slow folks...


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

jmp...There are no "stupids" if you don't know the answer. Always ask. 

Advantech is a plywood like 4X8 sheet, As far as I know, used mostly for subflooring. It has a 50 year guarantee against warping, rotting. seperation etc. Quite sure it hasn't been around for 50 years, so don't know how good the guarantee is, but I have been using it for migratory covers for about 5 years and even without painting they are still in perfect condition. cchoganjr


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Gypsi, http://www.beesource.com/resources/elements-of-beekeeping/ziplock-baggie-feeder/


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I second Cleo's advantech migratory covers with the 70mm hole to feed. I had some scrap pieces of it left from building my sons house in 2003. I have about ten of them made to use to feed when I am not worried about heat or moisture in the hives. I lean toward using the 4 quart feeder from Kelleys and leave out a jar or two for ventilation. I also use the vented super from Kelleys, and use self made risers, or shallow super bodies with the vented super. I've never had a bee drown from using either.

The advantech is not just a subfloor, it is 3/4" thick and most of the time glued and screwed down and then the carpet, tile or what ever installs directly on it. It is tongue and groove, and with some filler you can actually lay linoleum on it. With joists 16" on center you have a very solid floor, without many squeaks.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I googled advantech. It's not a Lowes or Home Depot product, but 2 lumber stores within 10 miles of me have it.

Thanks for the link Barry. Now, when it is empty, I get a fresh new ziploc bag, fill and cut again? (for the really really slow beek)

Gypsi


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Gypsi,
I think that advantech may be a brand. I assure that Lowes carries it. I have seen it there many times. It is not plywood it is an upgrade of OSB board.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

it would have to be an upgrade, I don't use osb for anything - too moisture sensitive... Lowes has the brand name stuff?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

You can google "advantech" and read all about it. Valleyman is right, it is not plywood. I just described it as like plywood, but I guess advanced, OSB would be a better description.

I googled Advantech again, and my Lowe's (Glasgow Ky) is a supplier, as are about 35 other building supply centers in a 25 mile radius. Apparently it is everywhere. cchoganjr


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Gypsi, 
Don't think 7/16" sheathing OSB. The floor is a whole differient animal. It will last ?? a long time ?? in the rain, sun, or whatever. I never tried submersing it in water though. I don't believe the bees will either.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I've played around with many feeders (never tried the ziplock), but last year I tried these: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/

and was very impressed. Zero drowned bees, large capacity (2 gals), and doesn't rain down on bees when temps change. True that you need an empty super to fit over it, but usually you've got plenty of those around during the times you're feeding.


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## JMP (Mar 28, 2011)

Cleo, I appreciate the "no dumb question" comment  Sounds like Avantech is a marine plywood sort of thing. When I built my house is 2001 we just used 3/4" t&G plywood. I will make a trip to the local Lowes and check it out this weekend. I can always find an excuse to build something else! Cleo and Valleyman would you post a few more pictures? I am a show me person even though I don't live in Missouri. Thanks! I am finding it hard to swap between this site and Mapletrader, a similar site dedicated to maple sugaring. My taps are in and the sap is flowing. 

John


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

I had a half sheet of Advantech that I threw on the ground outside my shop. I left it there for several years. About twice a year I would flip it over to see what was happening on the underside. Other than turning a weathered gray, it was still solid after years of lying on the ground. I can imagine it lasting for decades up off the ground as a hive cover. Paint it well and it will probably be the last cover you will need for a hive.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

AstroBee said:


> I've played around with many feeders (never tried the ziplock), but last year I tried these: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/


I ordered these too; have not used yet. Glad to know few dead bees. Had no clue a super went on top but I have done little more than glance at them to this point. Can't just put on a tele cover?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Seymore said:


> I ordered these too; have not used yet. Glad to know few dead bees. Had no clue a super went on top but I have done little more than glance at them to this point. Can't just put on a tele cover?


Yes, you can just put a top on them, but the super really helps keep the edges down and keeps the sun off the plastic. I've used them both ways. Pretty sure you're going to like them. One thing I did before putting them into service (not sure this is really needed) but I took 80 grit sandpaper and roughed up the ladder portion on both side to give the bees a better foothold. You'll need to remove the white plastic cap to do it, but its easy to get in and out.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Thanks for the tip, Astro. Just wasn't sure how they worked exactly. Found a vid on them. NOW I understand. . Will dig out my sandpaper.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

AstroBee said:


> I've played around with many feeders (never tried the ziplock), but last year I tried these: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/
> 
> and was very impressed. Zero drowned bees, large capacity (2 gals), and doesn't rain down on bees when temps change. True that you need an empty super to fit over it, but usually you've got plenty of those around during the times you're feeding.


I used one of these successfully last year, too. Very easy to use and refill and clean.


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## JMP (Mar 28, 2011)

Greg, think I will be ordering some of these very soon. Glad to hear that you liked them. I really like Cleo's setup but I am pressed for time this spring. Will probably build some later this summer.


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## akia703 (Dec 26, 2011)

can you explain how to make gallon the can feeder? are you using repurposed gallons cans or buying them somewhere new. also, where are you finding lids for those cans?
thanks
akia703


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## akia703 (Dec 26, 2011)

riff raff,
can you explain how to make gallon the can feeder? are you using repurposed gallons cans or buying them somewhere new. also, where are you finding lids for those cans?
thanks
akia703


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## Riff Raff (Oct 5, 2011)

Hi akia703:

You can buy new cans from Lowes or any local hardware store I imagine and I would not use a used can myself. 

I took the lid off, measured about an inch from the outer lid and made a circle inside the lid with a marker. I did this so when I drilled my holes, I didn't get too close to the edge with a drill bit. You don't have to do that but when I start working on a project, I get kinda' excited! 

I used the smallest drill bit I had in a set, I think it is 1/16th of an inch, and made a bunch of holes in the lid, staying within my marked circle. I then took some sandpaper and knocked the burrs off the holes. I am pretty sure the bees are careful and would feed around the burrs but I wouldn't like a partition between my food and my mouth, so I give them the same consideration. 

To use the feeder, fill it with your bees favorite liquid food and put the lid on. Then, take two pieces of wood, I used 3/4 inch by 3/4 inch by about 8 inches. I took these pieces of wood and placed them parallel to each other on top of the inner cover and put the inverted can on the two blocks. This raises the can over the inner cover hole and allows feeding from all around the can. You then take a deep or two mediums and place it on the inner cover and top it with the outer cover. 

I hope this helps. If you want I can try to make a video showing you the steps, because seeing it done might be easier to understand than reading about it. Either way, it's simple to do.


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## akia703 (Dec 26, 2011)

I would love a video if you have time...I'm a show-me type person. Thanks
Akia703



Riff Raff said:


> Hi akia703:
> 
> You can buy new cans from Lowes or any local hardware store I imagine and I would not use a used can myself.
> 
> ...


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## StewRoten (May 22, 2010)

Get some plastic canvas at a crafts store. Cut it to fit and lay it on top of the wood floats. Very few drowned bees.


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

I have both floats from Brushy and I find a few dead bees in each from time to time. For all I know they died of old age while taking syrup. Never more than 5-6 bees.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Advantech is available at Lowes, Home Depot, most any lumber supply. Actually I don't buy very much. I get small pieces from contractors that use it for subflooring. Doesn't cost anything, but I normally give them a jar or two honey. cchoganjr


going to see if home depot has this under another name.


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## JMP (Mar 28, 2011)

Great comments from you all on the hive top feeder. Thank you.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

I have both types but I havent used the new yet, but like Eddie says i only loose a couple of bees with the old type.


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