# Hives stolen looking for help



## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I'm sure we will help as much as we can. Obvioulsy it was a bigger operation than the local teenagers could muster.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

They wiped you out! Wow there is some scum out there.

So sorry to hear about this.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

In my country around a year or so ago, following a lot of hive thefts in a particular area, local beeks got together and were eventually able to identify the thieves. They were running what amounted to a bee "chop shop", where they transferred the frames and bees to new boxes, and burned the supers the hives had been in at the time they stole them.

It was big news and was on the TV.


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## BEESERIOUS (Feb 25, 2009)

I can not believe there are people like that in this world. I bet if you come to California you will find them pollinating almonds, good luck in your search.


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

What about adding a picture here...just in case they are just stupid enough not to change boxes?!


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## jdawdy (May 22, 2012)

Bummer.
If I were a commercial beek, I would sure invest in an anti-theft GPS tracker for one of the hives in my apiary. Something like this: http://www.gpstrackingkey.com/Anti_Theft_Devices.html

I believe there are even services that will send you an alert if the item is moved, so you could notify the police before the hives go to a chop shop.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

As a side note, a trail cam hidden near the entrance to a field is a good idea. If not a simple $4.00 video surveillance sign posted to the entrance is a good deterrant.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss of hives to thieves, everytime something like this happens it pretty much makes me sick, I know you must be devastated. I know its just material things, and they can be replaced if they are never found, but its just disgusting that someone would steal someone else's bees, I mean how desperate can you be, and what kind of persons do these things, I would surely like to know, hopefully they find out soon. John


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

im confused.... you list your location as AZ... but the hives were in MS?


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## StacieM (Dec 13, 2012)

That is so terrible! I am so sorry to hear that happened to you. I hope you are able to find out who did it and they face a lot of criminal charges!


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

My condolences; if that happened to me we'd be wiped out. I'm in WY, not much I can do here, but I hope you find them.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

So sorry, I hope you get them back or at least catch whoever stole them.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks for the kind words. I live in Az but the bees were in MS which is probably why the got taken. We have the California apiary board know so they can look for them there.


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

Yea... why does your profile say Arizona? Do you live in Mississippi near where these hives were? I am in Hinds county... will assist you any way I can... but I dont know too many beekeepers around here... maybe a couple... and they are not the type.
Hope they will catch the people who did this....


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## waspslayer (Jan 3, 2010)

Bee rustlers.....Get a rope!


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## Major (Dec 31, 2012)

I don't know anything about your hives going missing but I do remember last year when I picked some nucs at what was supposed to be Russell apiaries farm seeing a bunch of boxes with bsh painted on the sides of them. Where these boxes put there by you and taken from there. I picked up my nucs in June in Brandon ms which is rankin county I think. And I do remember seeing the bsh.
Major


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Oldtimer, I'm guessing they burned the boxes because they must have been branded, otherwise a coat of paint would have been good enough. John


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

Yes when you were there in the spring those were my boxes. They were taken from there and another location. I hauled all the equipment from arizona.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Whoever it was who took them must have heard you had some nice bees for the almonds, that's what it kind of looks like to me. John


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

So you are saying that SOME of your bees that were stolen were AT Robert Russell's home???? HE was taking care of them there for you ... and now he has informed you that someone stole them from him??? Please tell us exactly what has happened here.... I REALLY do need to know.... MY bees are at risk also if what you are saying is true.... Tnks


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

sorry... duplicate post


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Someone getting back at Russel for wrong doings and thought they were his hives.........or.........someone was short hives for a pollination contract in almonds and decided to plump up their shortfall.

Thieves suck. I hope it's minimal, or nothing at all, but I think a lot of hives might disappear during the almond fest this year, just a lot of shady people in CA as well.

It's pretty bad when an already hard working beekeeper has to spend more money and time on cameras and GPS to protect their business, just pure BS.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

I dont understand people that steal from others. The whole thing is a mess. I will be heading out next week to pick up what is left and hope the sheriffs make some head way.


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## Buzzen (May 13, 2009)

Wow, what kind of lowlife would do that? I hope law enforcement catches them.


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## Lazy W (Apr 14, 2012)

I will keep an ear to the ground in south Mississippi. If I hear of someone trying to unload a bunch of bees I will shout.


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

Lazy W said:


> I will keep an ear to the ground in south Mississippi. If I hear of someone trying to unload a bunch of bees I will shout.


100 hives... you dont exactly take them to a pawn shop. 

whoever stole them is going to keep them and use them. My guess is if they are smart enough to steal them in the first place, they have plans to swap boxes.

whats there to understand about stealing? I want what he has.... I either have to work my but off for it, or go take his. Kinda human nature if you ask me.


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

yes... the reason people steal is self explanatory... however... MOST people have integrity and are honest... I DON'T steal because of my beliefs and because I wouldn't want someone to steal from me. I have NO sympathy for a thief... and they deserve everything they get when they get caught. I just believe in KARMA.... whoever did this will eventually get what's coming to them... I just feel very sorry for the people who lost what they work so hard for.... I have much sympathy for them, as I have been in the same position myself. The whole thing just stinks.... and I just hope in time those responsible will be exposed. FWIW


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Hope you have insurance.... but getting something stolen really stinks. I remember when my car got broken into at work and they jacked my subwoofers, amp, deck and anything else they could. I wasn't too mad about that. However, they also took my Nike work out pants and my owner's manual for my car, which upset me greatly. Why would you take someone else's pants.... and why the owner's manual for my car?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

schmism, I understand the purpose of stealing someone else's property, as you say it is to get what belongs to someone else for your own use, but I disagree that it is human nature, yes, we can be envious at times of others success and material goods, but taking it to the next level and stealing from them is criminal, and I don't believe we are by nature all criminals at heart, maybe I'm just interpreting you wrong. John


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## Lazy W (Apr 14, 2012)

schmism said:


> 100 hives... you dont exactly take them to a pawn shop.
> 
> whoever stole them is going to keep them and use them. My guess is if they are smart enough to steal them in the first place, they have plans to swap boxes.
> 
> whats there to understand about stealing? I want what he has.... I either have to work my but off for it, or go take his. Kinda human nature if you ask me.



Sorry schmism if I ruffled your feathers. I was simply saying that Beekeepers usually know what's going on around them. If someone just popped up with 100 hives from out of no where that would be a little suspicious to me. I do not have any experience with stealing. I will have to take your word for it. I will now stop looking.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

We are offering $3500 reward for information that gets our bees back. The sheriffs office also said crime stoppers will give up to $2,000 for information leading to an arrest.


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## debtfreedave (Apr 1, 2012)

MTINAZ, I live in Hinds County and will keep a look out. Sorry for your loss.


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## Scottsman (May 1, 2011)

Not knowing the exact circumstances we can only speculate that the perpetrator has experience as a Beekeeper with the knowledge and equipment to move 200, TWO HUNDRED, Bee Hives. Unless they were in an extremely remote location and even then someone would have to know something about it. It is unreasonable to assume they were loaded by hand onto a Pickup and hauled off by punks. Just saying, from my experience, if you are relying on the local constabulary you might as well be waiting for the crooks to give you a call and fess up. Just my opinion of Local Law Enforcement, the ones I have spoken with are useless, not the heros Fox News touts them to be.With enough effort someone could be found with some knowledge of the crime. My bet is the crooks are local of have connections with someone local to the hives. Add $ .89 to my opinion and you can get a cup of coffee at McDonald.


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## Nature Coast beek (Jun 10, 2012)

Latest issue of ABJ has a little write up that some almond contracts could be as high as $200 per hive...

There's yer motive.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Using the stolen bees for the almonds may seem the likely destination, but you really never know. If the crooks have any sense at all seems like they would want to lay low for awhile. However, unless there is something noticeably different about these hives, box construction, bottom boards, top covers, handhold style, that would get your attention, they will be hard to spot especially if they add a new coat of paint. Hopefully, these thieves don't have a lick of sense and they do something stupid again that gets them caught. John


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Any pictures would be great. What about frames - anything idenifying (we write a built date on ours). I would hit the other bee blogs as well and maybe even consider a classified in ABJ/Bee Culture. Maybe one of them would do a story on "Bee Hive thefts" and it might get the word out. Check with the fuel stops in the area, fast food places etc. - pretty hard to hide 100 double deeps, someone may have noticed. Very sorry for your loss - it is in all our best interest to check and double check everything we come in contact with - would be great to see this fellow beek get his hives back and those who stole them get what they got coming.
Good Luck and keep us posted if anything breaks


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

SippyBees said:


> So you are saying that SOME of your bees that were stolen were AT Robert Russell's home???? HE was taking care of them there for you ... and now he has informed you that someone stole them from him??? Please tell us exactly what has happened here


It seems to me that these questions need to be answered. Who reported them as stolen? Did the OP have to come back from Arizona to discover the loss.....or what?


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> It seems to me that these questions need to be answered. Who reported them as stolen? Did the OP have to come back from Arizona to discover the loss.....or what?


Robert Russell reported them stolen and contacted me about it. Both sheriffis offices are working on it.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I am gasping in disbelief! I am the most gullible fool in the world, but not gullible enough to give some individuals access to a hot stove and expect it to stay where I put it! I wonder what exotic breeding they became?


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

I also was thinking to check the gas stops. Have them look over their surveillance tapes. Maybe other businesses have road traffic in the background........ or traffic monitors may have video, too. If the media grabs this story (it is unusual to the public), the coverage may bring up other tips. Get your story and pictures on your web page. Can't hurt. 

At this point, you should not have yet ruled out anyone, including a fox guarding the hen house. The perpetrator either had all the time in the world, or he did it quickly. Depends on who it was and if they knew the owner was out of state. Strange that the land owner is tied to both sites where you lost bees, you know? Also, could have been helpers who may have done something without his knowledge. Physically check on any other of his other sites. Bring your camera and a notebook.

Sorry to hear of your loss.


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## Beesrme (Feb 4, 2011)

BeeGhost your statement about Beekeepers in Ca. being shady is at best wrong. I know many Beekeepers in Ca. and for the most part they are Honorable Men and Women who I am glad to know I would say that 99 percent are of good character and for you to cast aspersions is uninformed and degrading to Beekeepers In this State. Thomas F. Peavey Dos Palos, Ca.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Beesrme said:


> BeeGhost your statement about Beekeepers in Ca. being shady is at best wrong. I know many Beekeepers in Ca. and for the most part they are Honorable Men and Women who I am glad to know I would say that 99 percent are of good character and for you to cast aspersions is uninformed and degrading to Beekeepers In this State. Thomas F. Peavey Dos Palos, Ca.


You said "My statement" of *BEEKEEPERS* in CA being shady is wrong??? Just for clarification, here is MY STATEMENT copied from MY RESPONSE:



> Thieves suck. I hope it's minimal, or nothing at all, but I think a lot of hives might disappear during the almond fest this year, just a lot of shady people in CA as well.


There are 35 words in my sentence............and I looked really hard and triple checked it and still cant find the word "*BEEKEEPERS*", maybe you can point it out for me??

I said "shady people", by that I meant people trying to make a quick buck at the expense of others...........just to clarify.

Would a person need to be a car dealer to sell stolen cars? Nope.
Would a person need to work at Best Buy to sell stolen TV's and electronics? Nope.
Would a person need to be a beekeeper to sell stolen hives? Not necessarily. All they need is a truck and a strong back.


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## Beesrme (Feb 4, 2011)

BeeGhost What you need to understand is what you infer and to my reading that is what you infer and where it was posted is a site for beekeepers. If you don't like what I have to say maybe you should rethink what you say and not just talk. Thomas Peavey Dos Palos, C.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Beesrme,

Are you trying to tell me how I should word things and where I can word them?? Maybe you should learn reading comprehension?? Its not my fault that you some how confused "shady people" with "beekeepers".............that was far from my mind. 

By the way, there are lots of subjects on this site that don't deal with just bees and beekeeping. Just for your information.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

OK, BeeGhost explained what he meant, let's not continue this down the hole. Thanks.


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

This is really eye opening. For someone to be able to steal over 100 doubles deeps and not be noticed is kind of scary. If the hives were on pallets and especially if they were connected to the pallets with clips then I'd say it had to be someone with the equipment to handle them. I wonder what marks were on the ground? tractor tire marks? vehicle wheel marks? shoe prints? is the location visible to the general public? if not, who knew it was there that has equipment to move that many hives? gate locks? roads leading into the area? which way would be the most likely route out of the area? any trucking companies in the area handled hives matching that description? any distinctive building methods to the equipment? 

After seeing this I am considering branding my frames, boxes, bottom boards, and lids. The frames with comb are the most valuable part along with the bees. Do any other people on here brand their frames? How do you do that in the most affordable way?


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## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

Strange that only the poster's hives where lost. They must have been set away from the other hives. I'm guessing from the post that Russel didn't lose any hives. Sounds almost like someone told a part time worker to relocate his hives and the hives got mixed up. Real weird


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## Beesrme (Feb 4, 2011)

Barry ok with me I am only expressing my opinion I do know many beekeepers and for the most they are good people. I like this site and read it when I have time and I do know not all people agree. Thank You Thomas Peavey Dos Palos, Ca.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

jmgi said:


> Oldtimer, I'm guessing they burned the boxes because they must have been branded, otherwise a coat of paint would have been good enough. John


Well here's a link to a newspaper article on this event. There was also a thing on TV that showed more, including a large shed stacked with new empty boxes, and not much else, presumably to transfer hives into, plus a pile of old boxes outside and the remains of burning.

The police weren't really equiped to catch the offenders, or find out whose hive was whose. Local beekeepers did that, and then handed the evidence to the police once investigations were complete.

Not mentioned in the paper was a dramatic scene, where the perpetrators, once they realised they were discovered, made a desperate attempt to move truckloads of bees and equipment to a different location before the police would arrive. However the police got there and caught them in the middle of doing it.

It is a shame such scum actually exist in my country, but they did get their just deserts.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/loc...rs-go-to-police-after-finding-stolen-beehives


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I would agree that as a group beekeepers are some of the finest people I know. The simple fact is, though, that most bee thefts involve people with at least some level of beekeeping background simply because it is difficult to hide and benefit from what you've stolen if your not in the business. I have been stolen from 3 different times, each one was pretty sizable. In one a large share of honey was stolen, (the packer told me he was surprised that the guy all of a sudden had raised so much honey) in another 60 hives were stolen and in yet another a large amount of my pollination income was never paid. All three cases involved beekeepers. I dont even know if its 1%, I only know that when you are victimized by someone its very traumatic.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Jim, that just plain sucks, especially since it was other beekeepers that committed the crimes. Beekeepers SHOULD look out for each other, not steal from each other.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Yeah it does. In two of the cases they were people that I felt I could trust who handled my share of income. In the third it was a landowner who "sold" my bees to another beekeeper by telling him they had been abandoned on his property. The beekeeper that bought them (for maybe half their worth) found out I was coming to get them and moved them first and then told the police that I had already trespassed on his property and gotten them back a week earlier. He threatened to press trespassing charges on ME and the police (who he knew personally) chewed me out and told me that I was lucky that they didnt arrest me while the guy stands there with a smirk on his face. In all three cases the feeling of being violated was worse than the loss of the theft. Sorry to vent but this sort of incident brings up a lot of bad memories.


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

I agree with you Jim. I would think that anyone stealing hives with bees in them would have to have at least some beekeeping background. Especially in this case. I think it was someone who was a large scale beekeeper with the equipment and knowledge to move that many hives quickly and not be noticed. If those hives were in an area not visible to the general public and there aren't many large scale beekeepers in that area, with some effort and help from the beekeeper, the county sheriff's office will probably catch the thief. Even without my frames being branded I'd be able to probably recognize them. Nailing patterns, types of fasteners, type of frames, visible age of frames, wiring, old frames here and there mixed with new frames, maybe even frames the beek built himself, marked and not marked queens.........are all things that when combined I think I'd be able to recognize. The odds are that the bees are still on the same frames since who'd put them on foundation at this time of year. I would still not be able to be sure but I could make a judgement call as to probability. Even though that may not hold up as evidence it could point an investigator in the right direction. Those bees are probably headed for pollination somewhere or to break up and sell as nucs. Its a bummer that the investigator may have to question a lot of innocent beeks but if they see the purpose I'm sure it'd be ok with them so that the thief is caught and they don't get hit next. Area bee clubs may be an area to also check with. 



jim lyon said:


> I would agree that as a group beekeepers are some of the finest people I know. The simple fact is, though, that most bee thefts involve people with at least some level of beekeeping background simply because it is difficult to hide and benefit from what you've stolen if your not in the business. I have been stolen from 3 different times, each one was pretty sizable. In one a large share of honey was stolen, (the packer told me he was surprised that the guy all of a sudden had raised so much honey) in another 60 hives were stolen and in yet another a large amount of my pollination income was never paid. All three cases involved beekeepers. I dont even know if its 1%, I only know that when you are victimized by someone its very traumatic.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

The thing I wonder about is how deep is law enforcement going to dig to find the stolen hives, I mean double deep hives across this country pretty much resemble each other, unless there is something that would really stand out to separate the victims hives from all the rest. And if there is something unique about the stolen hives other than being branded, the thieves could change up things to make them look more normal or common. Look, this theft probably was thought out somewhat ahead of time and some thinking went into the how and what they were going to do with these hives and keep them from being recognized easily. I guess they could have moved them temporarily to some location back in the sticks until things cool down, and in the meantime repaint or do something to cover up the evidence. John


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

MTINAZ-
I'm not there nor am I a lawyer but it seems that a bailment existed between you and Russell. Depending on the amount Russell profits some responsibility for the care if the property becomes Russell's. One can at least claim that when a large truckload of quite valuable material is loaded, probably with machinery, and disappears without notice that reasonable care has not been taken. You need to consult your lawyer. 
Good luck with this-
Bill


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

What exactly is Russell's explanation as to how they went missing? If they were on his property, did he have any hives there as well? If so, did any of his go missing? Sorry, but yet another cloud hanging over Rankin county.


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## David Cassity (May 16, 2012)

Don't know a lot except I have been told of it happening. I would agree on the following. 1. Experience in beekeeping especially in transport of bees. 2. While its possible the thieves stole for the honey the bees/ hives are more valuable for pollination. 3. Semi with flatbed or ton level pickup and bed hitch. 4. Some kind of mechinized loading as thieves don't like work.5. Most likely not local unless there is an area of or possibility of a pollination contract. 

If it was local 10-20 hives I would think local as it could be sold piecemeal without arousing suspicions or the honey could be harvested without a thought by neighbors or buyers

Just my. $.02


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

I was online this morning and noticed the thread shown in the link below:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...hand-knowledge-He-taught-me-how-to-raise-bees

Hopefully the investigator has this info.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

I did not mention Russell apiaries on purpose due to feelings about them on here and I don't want it to be about them. I have my reasons for buying bees from them and trusting them. I was hoping any beekeepers in the area would keep and eye and an ear out. Yes I think it was people with knowledge and a plan and the odds of ever getting them back are about as slim as could be. Yes some of Roberts Hives were stolen as well, and most of the comments seem very biased towards him. Beekeepers have yards all over that if some thief knew where they were and wanted them they would only have to drive up at night and load up.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I wish you luck finding your hives. I think you downplay too much most people's fears of even approaching occupied hives, as well as the amount of time and effort and machinery involved in moving that number of hives.

If the thieves loaded by hand, it would have taken them hours, and they would have still needed trucks and/or trailers large enough to haul that many hives. So many hives won't fit in the bed of a pickup at one time. And moving that many hives even with machinery takes time (and previous experience to cut that time down).

As much as I dislike stating it, I think a beekeeper or at least someone with beekeeping experience is your thief.


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

I dont know exactly where these yards are... but it is a very small community there. I think if trucks and trailers were going anywhere there .. even out into a pasture... at 3 AM in the morning, someone would have noticed. That would have been very unusual. However, if someone was loading bees in the middle of the day in broad daylight, they probably would not have questioned it... especially if they saw someone there that they had seen before and recognized. Would have just thought someone is moving their bees and never thought about it again. Hopefully someone saw something, and hopefully the law will question them, and hopefully they will be able to remember something unique or identifiable about what they saw. Is hard for me to believe that some guy looking for bees to take to the almonds would even KNOW where this little community is... much less that there were bees there. Give it some time.... I am not convinced that all is lost yet. Cant say for sure what will happen... but the OP might just get something back in the end.... I think we all hope so anyway. If nothing else... it has opened my eyes to what can happen even to a bunch of bees. I had 80 hives before I walked away from them.... but I never even questioned that someone would or could steal them. Since this post... I have learned that <$300 would buy you almost 100% security in a bee yard.... and in the future I WILL make that investment to protect my yard/ hives. Much has changed in the last 5 years....


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Gotta agree with you Sippy. If they had all the right equipment, no one probably would've thought twice about seeing them loading hives in the middle of the day. With the prices bees are getting lately I'm not surprised. All kinds of people out there who do anything to make a $$ especially these days.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

SippyBees said:


> but it is a very small community there. I think if trucks and trailers were going anywhere there .. even out into a pasture... at 3 AM in the morning, someone would have noticed. Is hard for me to believe that some guy looking for bees to take to the almonds would even KNOW where this little community is... much less that there were bees there.


I agree I got lost trying to find the town with directions and maps on my phone. Not only that but the bees there could not bee see from any road.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Kieck said:


> I think a beekeeper or at least someone with beekeeping experience is your thief.


I would agree with this.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm intrigued by this case. Let me see if I've got all this straight:

One hundred double deeps were stolen from two locations (roughly 50 per location).

Both locations were property owned by the same single individual or entity.

Both locations were not readily visible to passing traffic.

The property owner of both locations is also a beekeeper.

The property owner reported them stolen, and reported some of his own stolen as well.

Now, what I'd like to know is:

How many hives other than yours (the BSH) ones were located at each of these two locations?

How many of those hives were also reported stolen?

How many other thefts of bee hives from other locations in that area have similarly been reported recently?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I just went back and read all posts by MTINAZ, the victim of the theft, and I have yet to see where he has said how his bees came to be there in Mississippi when he is in Arizona. Who was managing the hives? He said he got lost trying to find the town where his bees are located??? Sure would be nice to know a little more of the history that is factual, rather than reading all this speculation. John


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

I apologize that I shared some information that MTINAZ shared with me in PM's and a phone call. This is his thread... and whatever information he chooses to disclose is his business. I am very sorry for his loss, and am sorry if I said anything here that he chose to not disclose. All things considered... I say give it some time... I have a feeling that something will be done in the matter. I will of course inform the OP of anything I learn or hear about it here... but what information is shared here in a public forum is his choice.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

SippyBees,

I think that now would be the time for you to step back from speaking for MTINAZ and let him give us all more than one or two sentences about this matter. After all, he is the one who came on this forum pleading for help in finding his stolen hives. This forum is here for more than our reading enjoyment, when something like this happens to a fellow beek they know they can come on here and get support, not just in words, but other beeks in the area can keep an eye out for his missing stuff and ask some questions. John


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

What more do we need to know besides what they look like in order to report their location and call the cops if we see them?

We already have a description.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> He threatened to press trespassing charges on ME and the police (who he knew personally) chewed me out and told me that I was lucky that they didnt arrest me while the guy stands there with a smirk on his face.


Not to kindle bad memories but did this work out? How? Did you get any satisfaction going higher in law enforcement (like state) filing a complaint that this cop was protecting a criminal? How does a land owner sell a beekeepers hives and then make deals with another beekeeper? It is like the wild, wild, West stealing cattle and horses.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

How did it work out? Well it worked out well for him. I was an unknown person 1,000 miles from home. He was the local "bee guy" on a first name basis with the boys at the local police department who had pretty much concluded that I was some unknown transient that just needed to move along. Nothing was branded, I couldnt prove ownership even if I knew where they were.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I suspect that this one may turn out without much satisfaction for MTINAZ, too. Sure, the description of the hives is posted here now. But unless the hives are marked some other way, I guess most thieves smart enough to find and move more than 100 hives from at least two locations are also smart enough to repaint or rebox and burn the evidence.

I do hope that those of us reading this thread to get to hear whatever outcome results from this, just to satisfy our curiosity.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

not needed


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

Mississippi bee inspector talked to me 5 minutes ago.... I learned a lot in the few minutes we talked.... I am confident much more info will come to light about all of this.... I will not involve anymore people by dropping names here... 
But FWIW...
Call and report also to Mississippi Farm Theft dept... special division to investigate agricultural theft
800-678-2660
601-359-1122


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Kieck, I want to know how this turns out too, there's nothing I can do to help being so far away, but if I was in the area, I would be conducting my own investigation to help get the guy's hives back home to him. John


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm right with you, jmgi. I'm not in that area, and I don't know how the beekeepers there interact. I may not be acquainted with all of the beekeepers who have hives in this area, but I think I recognize which vehicles/equipment/loaders work in most of the yards that I pass frequently. I'd certainly notice if someone else was loading hives at one of those yards when I was going past. My guess is that most of the ag producers (those folks who own properties where most bee yards are located here) would also notice if someone else was loading hives at most of the yards in this area.

Joel's post reads like a useful checklist, in my opinion. I'd copy it and print it out in a case like this to use as a reference for what I'd do.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

SippyBees said:


> Mississippi bee inspector talked to me 5 minutes ago.... I learned a lot in the few minutes we talked.... I am confident much more info will come to light about all of this.... I will not involve anymore people by dropping names here...
> But FWIW...
> Call and report also to Mississippi Farm Theft dept... special division to investigate agricultural theft
> 800-678-2660
> 601-359-1122


This kind of post is really not helpful to solving the crime at hand and more than likley could hurt the case.

You and the state inspector have absolutely no business discussing an ongoing criminal case with the inference that the investgation is about to break and you have the inside scoop and posting it for the world to see. If I was the investigator on this case I'd be dragging you in to find out why the state inspector is telling you anything about any ongoing criminal investigation - then if there was any pertinent information exchanged I'd be calling the head of the state ag department and the inspector would be working at McDonalds next week. Being confident the investigator is reading all these Russell related posts I'm sure that wheel may already be in motion.

Did it occur to you the investigator is likely reading every post about the Russells on beesource? Did it occur to you that perhaps the authorities would prefer to keep case progress under wraps until an arrest is made? Did it occur to you the inspector might not be wanting you post about him on Beesource?


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

This is an interesting thread, and even for us small beekeepers, there are some lessons to be learned about hives, theft, law enforcement, engraving/branding/painting, etc., and people in general.


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

Joel ... WHAT???? WHat are you talking about? The inspector did not tell me anything about this case... he didn't even KNOW about it.. and I did not intend to make it sound that way.... but he did shed some light on some other things I was interested to know about. I told him about this thread and the first thing he said was did it get reported to the Farm Theft dept... and as far as i know it didn't. I just put the numbers up so MTINAZ would know about it... he may not have known about that avenue. I did not get ANY kind of information to solve this crime... and I did not mean to imply that I did. 
Did you know.. at least in the state of MS... if you advertise to sell a bait/ lure for an insect.... it is considered a pesticide and you must be licensed to sell it.... such as SHB bait/traps... I had NO IDEA. You can make it and use it yourself.... but if you sell it you better have a pesticide license... THAT is something I learned.
And i learned about that special division that investigates farm theft.... I personally thought that would be a GOOD THING TO SHARE here in light of things. 
I have my own personal reasons to believe that eventually someone will get to the bottom of all of this.... and THOSE things I will not put here. 
G'day... thanks for your comments.... always trying to self improve... seems I get many suggestions how to improve here daily....


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

I am not sure how some of what is being asked is relevant. How do beekeepers bees end up in CA with a broker or another beekeeper watching them, or in ND for for the honey flow, or TX, or FL for the winter. I get the feeling some of you feel I am lying about this so I will elaborate a little. My name is Clinton Caffrey, I live in snowflake Arizona. In 2001 I purchases 100 packages out of CA. I ended up loosing all 100 do to what we think was loco weed poisoning(all pesticide and disease testing was negative). In order to hopefully build faster and on one last chance I decided to buy nucs from russell apiaries and Robert was nice enough to offer to put them on some of his fathers old honey yards that were not being used. I drove out in april and installed the nucs in my equipment near learned MS. There were some spits made through out the summer and some hives moved. I then received the email last week that the theft had occurred. I have not posted any other details as I think that is between me and the sheriffs office, and is not relavent for people many states away.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Well Sippy - you have to admit you kind of keep yourself in the middle of this controversy but that's OK - I'll take your posts as good spirited and maybe I am misguided.
Your state inspector doesn't know 100 hives were stolen a week or more ago??????? Really? I guess it's good you brought him up to speed and I suspect if he is the MSInspector supporting your claims on the other Russell post he hoped right on.
I interpreted the fact you posted it on this post as well as the reference to coming to light soon and name dropping as indications you and the inspector had discussed the case. How else would that be interpreted? What are you confident will come to light very soon and why? These types of investigations are notorious for never getting solved. Maybe it was the name droping thing that threw me off.
Interesting someone with the handle MSINSPECTOR is on another thread supporting your claims while your're here using an inspector, not necessarily him if he is an inspector, to bolster your position, maybe he really isn't a MS state inspector and maybe I am completely misinterpreting you both on these posts and if that is the case I offer my most humble apology. I did head to head battle (along with others) with inspections in this state and after getting in touch with the states attorney generals office and my state senator they state changed the entire program and most of the inspectors. Most of us who do this for a living have pretty strong opinions about the inspections programs and what inspectors legally can do and will push that envelope every time. That's a different thread, it's all here on beesource if you go back a few years in your search.

MtINAZ - I had posted some suggestions for you here but deleted them as I realized after posting they might be too law enforcement sensitive and assuming the bad guys might be browsing here with all the talk did not want to negatively impact your case- That's what Kieck was referring to in his post - I will send it to you directly if you are interested and PM me an e-mail address. I really hope you get your hives back!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I think it would be good if everyone took a breath, paused a bit before posting, and not overly read into much of this. Be careful what words you use and be careful how you chose to interpret someone else's words.


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## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

Either way you seem to have incredibly bad luck. It sucks losing 200 hives basically at no fault of yours.

Hope you have a better 2013


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your loses hopefully everything works out the best for you!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Barry said:


> Be careful what words you use and be careful how you chose to interpret someone else's words.


Be careful of what you wish for Barry. Posting could dry up in a heart beat.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Like I said Ace, be careful what words you use.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

MTINAZ, 

As for me, I never doubted that you were being totally honest about everything, sorry if I came across that way, and I do hope that this whole thing is solved expediently for you and the criminals are caught. Many of the readers here have many questions as do I that have not been answered, not that we can do anything about it, being as you say, many states away. I guess we all just naturally want to do some detective work on our own, and therefore the missing details have us curious, that's all. I'm sure that you have reasons for not going into some particulars of the case, and that is your business for sure. Again, I hope this whole thing is resolved soon, and you get your bees back. John


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## Blossom (Nov 29, 2008)

JRG13 said:


> Hope you have insurance.... but getting something stolen really stinks. I remember when my car got broken into at work and they jacked my subwoofers, amp, deck and anything else they could. I wasn't too mad about that. However, they also took my Nike work out pants and my owner's manual for my car, which upset me greatly. Why would you take someone else's pants.... and why the owner's manual for my car?


*JRG13 - Why would someone steal your car manual? Sounds like they have the same kind of car and now they have your system in it too. People can be such jerks. I hate crooks! Be glad they have the same kind of car or they may have taken it too. P.S. They must be the same size as you too..*


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I understand that the investigation will limit what you can and should post here, MTINAZ, yet I am interested to hear what you found and learned on the ground in Mississippi this week.


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## MSBEEINSPECTOR (Aug 9, 2011)

The thread you have been reading involves a theft that has occurred in Mississippi in the past few weeks. In working with the appropriate law enforcement as an inspector for the state I have been asked to place a request on this website for assistance. 

Bee colonies and equipment were stolen from sites in both Rankin & Hinds Cos., MS. The equipment is clearly marked and easily identified. They are painted with BSH. Any and all comments to me either by PM or my e-mail will be held in confidence by the law enforcement in charge. Any information, no matter how small you think it is, is important to the investigation. Sometimes a comment heard in passing by someone gives a lead to be utilized.

You can PM or use the following email
Charles H. Wilson
[email protected]


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## MSBEEINSPECTOR (Aug 9, 2011)

Sorry - posted twice


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Blossom said:


> *JRG13 - Why would someone steal your car manual? *


I lived in Hawaii for a few years. When I got there I was told to never lock my car as that wouldn't stop them. Once after a scuba dive with some friends we returned to our cars and my buddies car was broken into (he didn't heed my advice to him!) In any case the only thing missing was the ice from his cooler. Not the drinks, or the snacks, or the other food, or the cooler, just the ice. Very weird. Oh, and he didn't have to worry about locking his car anymore as they broke the lock on the hatchback.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

The timing would suggest a person making money in bee pollination, likely almonds. Word is that a lot of guys are down 25% to 50% of their bees, most guesses are due to some new pesticide. One broker stated that only one beekeeper (a buddy of mine) came in over his estimates for numbers of colonies, nobody else even came close.

My only question - and please shoot me down if this is not a help, or suggest that it be dealt with privately at some later date - is this, *"Are the boxes and frames identified with a name, number, or other brand?"* I can promise that I will keep my eyes opened for them if you post it or send me the info in a PM. I can pass this info along to a number of key people out here (all 58 county Ag. Commissioners in Calif.!). A similar thread last year motivated me to hurry up my branding iron project, and register my hives with my county Agricultural Commissioner (in lieu of bee inspectors here in CA). 

I would say, "Good luck", but I feel it would be better to *make* luck happen in a case like this. I would post all identifying information I could re. the stolen equipment and bees all over the almond areas in CA with the word "REWARD" in large letters at the top. The last thing this guy wants is 2 million beekeepers and their neighbors around the country looking for your equipment!

Another trick is to have very small metal ID tags fitted into a drilled hole in the notch hidden by a finger box joint (drill deep, and plug the hole so it can be stapled as normal), glued and stapled away in the box, or similarly located in the top bar of a frame (catch THAT guy and will he ever be surprised at how he got busted!). Police can X-ray your metal ID without destroying the box.

Of course, deterrent is better, so brand the hell out of every surface you can (your "BSH" paint job was good, but brand them as well). Leave a note in every box stating, "I poisoned ONE of the honey supers. See if you can guess which one!", or better yet, "This honey made from GMO flowering crops by genetically modified bees." If the scumbag persists in stealing more hives, put an empty super with a live snake in the top box. I have been working on a Lo-Jack for beehives, but it would be difficult to fit them in a frame as of yet, so as to catch the "chop shop" guys like Oldtimer mentions in New Zealand (BTW, thanks for the article, Oldtimer!).


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

kilocharlie said:


> My only question - and please shoot me down if this is not a help, or suggest that it be dealt with privately at some later date - is this, *"Are the boxes and frames identified with a name, number, or other brand?"* I can promise that I will keep my eyes opened for them if you post it or send me the info in a PM. I can pass this info along to a number of key people out here (all 58 county Ag. Commissioners in Calif.!). A similar thread last year motivated me to hurry up my branding iron project, and register my hives with my county Agricultural Commissioner (in lieu of bee inspectors here in CA).


Charlie.........I am glad that you posted this.

I am a hobby beek transitioning to a sideliner who, after reading this thread, will be branding all my equipment (frames and boxes) as I grow. I now see the importance of this and hopefully all other beeks with out-apiaries will also do this. If everyone branded all of their frames and boxes something like this would probably not be done. 

Individual states should cooperate with the indentification process (if they aren't already doing it) and brands should have digits that indicate what state that brand comes from. "TX" would be part of the brand indicating that its a Texas registered brand. If the frames in this thread had been branded that way and the border inspection folks in CA had the brand number and accounted (randomly inspected) for all hives temporarily brought into the state for pollination, then that person would be more likely to be caught. 

That metal indentification tag that could be inserted into the wood is a cool idea and needs to really be explored. I don't think it would be practical on a per frame basis but it would allow for quick inspection of a box by a border inspector, investigator, etcetera. I would think it needs to be indentifiable by a scanner kind of like a credit card reader. Maybe something that even a smart phone with an app on it could utilize. GPS tags may not be economical but I think something like this could be.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I can't brand frames because I sell bees and my brands would eventually show up all over the place. But if I wasn't selling bees I would, could be done resonable quickly during assembly.

A sign in the apiary saying all frames have been branded would be a deterant to a thief. If not all but one or two hives had a gps locator installed, and the sign said that, would also be a great deterant.

What I do have though at a yard that would be easy for a thief, is a camera. In fact, more than one because I put the word out I use cameras, so don't want someone to go looking for it & when he finds it thinks he is home free.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Folks have mentioned GPS locators in this thread, but does someone have a particular device in mind? I would think that to be effective you would need a device that was a transmitter with GPS built in. I assume it would use cellular, so I would also assume you would need some sort of plan for each of these devices from a cellular provider. And I also assume these would need batteries, so you are probably looking at something around the size of a cell phone. This seems like it would be too expensive a solution to deploy. Or is there something that would allow you to track your hives without a data plan and something the size of a phone in the hives?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I don't understand the technical side of this, but my laptop has something in it that transmits at intervals, and I've signed up with a business who will track and find my laptop if it's stolen, cost $150 for a 3 year plan.

So if something like that could be put in a hive you'd just put it in an occasional random hive I guess.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

....or perhaps just a sign claiming one or more of these hives contain gps chips, well..... do ya feel lucky?


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Yes, but with a laptop you have wireless built into it, so I would assume that the location would be transmitted via wifi (based on ip address information). So you wouldn't need a data plan for it. And you already have the sunk cost of the laptop with a wireless device built in. Iphones and ipads have built in GPS and they are connected to a carrier already, so they are easy to track. I would assume that you could just attach a smartphone to a beehive and track it that way, but even if you could get something cheap (less than $100) and you could negotiate a deal with a carrier to charge a discounted rate it will still be expensive per unit. It would have to be around the size of a phone, so it would be tricky to hide in a hive. I'm not saying you couldn't do it, just don't know how you could do it cost effectively.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> ....or perhaps just a sign claiming the hives contain gps chips, well..... do ya feel lucky?


Well, I found something that would do it:
http://www.amazon.com/Tagg-The-Pet-Tracker-Master-Kit/dp/B0077I42S4

$80, but you would need a bunch of them. Plus the data plan is $8 a month, and you need to somehow keep it charged up. I don't see how that is affordable. 

You could put one or two in your hives, but you would need to be diligent about checking the locations as I think it would be pretty easy for a thief to find them and attach it to a truck at a rest stop.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The problem with any kind of locator device to track a stolen hive is electrical power. A cell phone, GPS or LoJack type device will only work as long as the unit has power. How are you going to consistently recharge the device batteries?

You could put an RFID device into a hive. This would effectively be the same as a "microchipped" dog or cat. These devices have no requirement for regular power, so they would last a long time - i.e. the life of your pet. But, the are passive devices and only transmit an ID when they are within the range of a "powered" transmitter/reader, and that range is measured in feet, not miles. So if you knew where to find a stolen hive, the reader could prove that it is indeed yours. But it won't help you find the hive if you don't already know where to look.


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

I would think the first question a person must ask themselves is HOW MUCH IS YOUR 50 HIVES in an outyard worth to you? Then ask yourself how likely you think someone would want to take said worth from you since you are not there all the time watching it. $8/ month seems small for a relatively high degree of security for 50 x $200 = $10,000 (conservative) investment sitting out in the open, at least to ME I am going to make that investment... especially considering the activities in my area. That small pet tracker could be sealed into a frame inside a hive.... all frames branded... all boxes branded..... trail camera hidden somewhere nearby... and signs stating that these electronic devices ARE and WILL be used to prosecute to the full extent of the law. 
If someone STILL wants to take their chances... I think I have a relatively good chance of getting my stuff back or at least being able to sue/ prosecute SOMEONE for my loss. I am estimating <$300/ out yard for this feeling of security... for me is worth it. 
ANYTHING you use to protect your investment is better than "hoping" it won't happen to you. 
FWIW


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

No doubt. But I would think that you would have to check on the location often as someone that would take your boxes, particularly if they are branded, would likely swap out the woodenware. And if you were doing that you would probably notice the propolized transmitter in one of the hives. Like Radar said, the problem would be ensuring power to the device.


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

Don't know how long the battery lasts... haven't really looked in depth at the tag yet... but I will replace the batt's as often as I need to ... if that is what it takes. As for someone swapping out all the frames or whatever... remember, they are in the process of STEALING something... I do not think they have the time to go through 50 hives frame by frame... while at the same time wondering if anyone is seeing them. At least I am counting on that. 
I guess there is NOTHING guaranteed... but I believe that I will have done the best I can to protect myself from bad people. In a yard with 50 hives... doubles... probably with at least 1 super... will give 'em 1500 frames to examine to be sure they get ALL the trackers. If you are robbing someone, would you have time to go through 50 hives by hand? Thats a lot of time for the trail cam to exhaust it's 1000 pic memory while they are doing it... or... maybe there are 2 cams?? Hmmmm Guess thats something the thieves will have to consider before they start their work....
Ehhh... well... am just trying to make myself feel better I guess....


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

The information discussed here has some elements of my design (not all of it), which is still under development. I can't talk about it, or I will lose a significant chunk of the market. This has significant uses far outside just beehives, and hence a huge financial reward to risk ratio. At the present time, the hidden metal tag combined with massive branding is the economical answer for beekeepers. Brand your name or company name and phone number onto your hives, your home state and county - great ideas! I like the UPC code / credit card idea. Good discussion, guys! How about a 50-state bulletin board for stolen bee equipment and we all have the option to pay a few bucks into a communal reward fund?

For those of y'all designing your own, consider a small lithium battery on a signal detector circuit at extremely low draw that trips a somewhat higher current circuit that "answers back" with an intermittent transmitted signal. You own the "finder device" which is extremely sensitive, possibly hooked up to the internet, anyone owning such a device can find your hives for you (and can get the reward!!!). It can be done for fairly cheap once the scale of production is such that a company can afford a microcircuit design to be produced. I'm sure the electronics whiz kids can come up with better ideas than mine - just a place to start.

Now, remember - you catch the culprit, let the sheriff handle it! Don't take justice into your own hands and get your own backside in a sling, or worse yet a bullet hole in yer hyde. One class in administration of justice explaining elements of evidence and elements of arrest would convince you of this....Photograph the bugger, get the license plate, write it down along with a description of him/her/them, date time and location.

Anyone with a background in law may wish to write a proposal for any legislation such technology could require - I'd really like to see a solid legal procedure in a pamphlet that comes with the unit. I like the idea of, "Just buy it, install it, and we'll take care of the rest."

RichardsonTX - It can be economical to tag frames if you just make it part of the process from the get-go. A hidden drill hole in a top bar and an insertion tool with a tag loader or dispenser will do the trick. For my own, I'm hoping to combine a brander with an arbor press or drill press with a fence and a stop - brand all parts of a frame before they are assembled. Again, deterrence is better than recovery. There are still those people stupid enough to swipe them anyways, sand past your best branding efforts, and you still have them with the hidden tag.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I think the only practical way of limiting your losses is to get insurance and then let the insurance company prosecute the offender if he gets caught. Anyone running a business would have insurance for theft.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Insuring equipment in a building is one thing but both banks and insurance companies are suspicious of live bee hives either to insure or to use as collateral as they have neither a title nor a permanent physical address plus their value is quite difficult to determine as it relates in a large part to where they are located, how much honey they have on them and what time of year it is.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I can see where a lack of record keeping might make it tough for banks and insurance companies to accept the risk. I can't say that the insurance premium would be affordable but I do know that bee equipment has value, bees have value and honey has value so the loss there of should be insurable. It is not likely that you would be better off making a claim for the loss than if there were no loss no matter what the loss is.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Not sure what the situation is now in my country, but back when I started with bees, they could not be insured, nor would banks lend money against them.

Makes sense I guess, hive numbers in my yards go up and down constantly, who's to say (and prove), what was there at a particular time.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Its quite likely that if you permanently maintain a given number of hives on your property that an insurance company would agree to insure them at some level. If you are going to be moving them a lot, particularly state to state dont even bother asking about insurance. The case that this thread is based on is a classic example of what I am talking about. The insurance agents first question would be an incredulous "WHERE were they stolen from?" followed by "were we informed that we were insuring property in Mississippi?"


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

My agent didn't want to insure my NY bees when I bought them, but I guess I whined enough and they've always been fair with me. The company insures many farms in Vermont, and I convinced them that it would be like having my cows loose on the neighbor's field...and the fence line was the state line.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

These are the lines along which I was thinking ... Livestock and crop insurance. I doubt if you can insure bees against dying but I would think it is possible to insure them against theft.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Yes insurance would help, but insurance is emphatically NOT the equivalent of a healthy apiary. It takes a 2-year growth cycle to get going again (longer for some types of bees or if you use Brother Adam's methods, let alone if there are any bad years ahead), and no insurance company is going to pay you for your effort and hard work, only the value of the bees and equipment. What I'm saying is that the SETBACK is not covered. There is no substitute for branding to keep your hives yours!

I think bee thieves should be given sentences of forced servitude for the 'keeper they stole from, and made to pay back triple (1x in cash and 2x in hives, or however the victim wishes)! If he gets injured stealing your bees, he pays the doctor and you! (Forgive my pontificating - I have too many cops in the family.)

Again, I think a national registry of beekeeper identification numbers and a stolen hive hotline / bulletin board would actually help and eventually make bee rustling a rarity. The border patrol should know that bees can't cross our borders except through the national bee lab to an isolation island for the 2-year quarantine period.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

Dont count on insurance. I have been fighting mine just to get the equipment covered.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

More than adequately covering my point. They are not in the business of giving money away to claimants. Brand your hives, people!


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

A few years ago, GPS units in frames were offered for sale.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-234190.html

I don't remember seeing them in the catalogs in the last couple of years.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

kilocharlie said:


> Yes insurance would help, but insurance is emphatically NOT the equivalent of a healthy apiary.


Neither is catching the perpetrator. He will go to jail which you have to support and you will get nothing in return unless the bees and equipment are still around. The most depressing thing I find about this thread is the thief is a bee keeper.


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## keeper (Jan 29, 2012)

Might be a crime ring. I know there were several large number hive thefts last year in GA. One producer lost 100 hives from a single location. Hard to believe somebody can pull a tractor trailer load of bees out of an area and nobody see a thing.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

keeper said:


> Hard to believe somebody can pull a tractor trailer load of bees out of an area and nobody see a thing.


Almost as hard to believe one would be filled with weed coming form Mexico heading for NY that belongs to a medical manufacturer. If it is common to move large numbers of hives with a tractor trailer why would anyone notice?


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

A pickup and a decent-sized flatbed trailer would be capable of hauling 100 hives. No need for a tractor-trailer for only 100 hives.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Yeah a 1 ton a 12' flatbed a loader and a half an hour gets 100 hives for someone willing to take the risk. Overloaded a bit for sure but that isn't going to bother a crook much maybe they even "borrowed" that for a night.


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## keeper (Jan 29, 2012)

It isn't the load of bees being stolen that is hard to believe... It is the nobody seeing it that is hard to believe. Truck loads of bees attract a lot of attention...I have hauled truck loads of bees and am constantly stopped by curious onlookers when at the filling station or getting ready to make a turn at a light.

That is the South for you.... that Good ole Boy mentality is one of the things I dislike about the South... A dozen people could see something and nobody is going to say a thing about it.

I have seen a few posts about people who are expecting to receive Nucleus hives from Russell Apiaries this spring.... I think they are likely going to receive the OPs bees. In other words; those hives didn't go anywhere which is why nobody saw them go anywhere.


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## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

Keeper.... the Good ole boy mentality DOES flourish down in the south... but in this case I think you mis-applied the term. Remember... it was a very small community.... if someone WITNESSED a robbery taking place.... you better believe they would be the first to call the law.... they will get much attention, maybe even get in the paper.... know what I mean??? As I said in an earlier post... a possible reason no one saw anything is cuz it was nothing out of the ordinary.... meaning they have seen the same folks moving bees around before. But then again... they may not have left all on the same trailer. Could have been 5-10 nucs at a time.... now would that seem out of the ordinary for YOU had you been there to pick up some nucs from someone?
There are some truths about the south AND the north also.... but in this case I do not think that is why no one would have seen anything.....just my .02


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## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

keeper said:


> That is the South for you.... that Good ole Boy mentality is one of the things I dislike about the South... A dozen people could see something and nobody is going to say a thing about it..


Kind of harsh keeper. I know people that lost money to Bernie Maddoff and in the banking collapse. Ignorance and dishonesty know no borders.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Good ole boy mentality? Yea right, this could have happened anywhere with the same results.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I remember a story told by one of my relatives:

Seems that my relative had a couple neighbors who shared a pasture. They each had a few horses in that pasture. One day, one of them discovered that his bay horse with a white blaze and white stockings had been stolen. The other fellow happened to have acquired a solid bay horse that same day. The first time it rained, the horse with the white blaze and stockings miraculously reappeared, and the solid bay was no where to be seen.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

keeper said:


> I have seen a few posts about people who are expecting to receive Nucleus hives from Russell Apiaries this spring.... I think they are likely going to receive the OPs bees. In other words; those hives didn't go anywhere which is why nobody saw them go anywhere.


sure would be interesting if the owner had some way to identify the frames, like they were all plastic etc and the people that got nucs could speak up.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I'm not surprised that people could haul of a truck load of hives. I work in the IT field and I can usually go were I want to go without anyone asking any questions and this includes banks, schools and hospitals. If you look like you belong there you don't draw any attention. My guess is that it was done in broad daylight as that draws the least attention to your acts. I don't think it has anything to do with a good ole boy mentality.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

shannonswyatt said:


> I'm not surprised that people could haul of a truck load of hives. I work in the IT field and I can usually go were I want to go without anyone asking any questions and this includes banks, schools and hospitals. If you look like you belong there you don't draw any attention. My guess is that it was done in broad daylight as that draws the least attention to your acts. I don't think it has anything to do with a good ole boy mentality.


I have many "Good Ole Boy" friends where we keep our bees in South Carolina. All of them will tolerate a rude drive, most will respond to an insult with the kindest of squelches, but to the man they would be most likely to grab a thief by the collar and throttle em good. Then they would send the thief to find me and admit he stole something and once said thief apologized they'd be expected to buy dinner for all. After that they would be forgiven having learned a good southern lesson in manners. That's at least the "Good Ole Boys" I hang with down south.

Somone saw what happend - someone driving to work, a paper boy, a ups man, that someone just isn't found yet. The real break will come once the guilty ones get a little heat. Criminals who commit crimes and get away with with it always run their mouths, someone else knows, a girlfriend, wife or mother in law gets mad, the weak link in the chain breaks and suddenly it becomes crystal clear. Criminals who think they are smarter than everyone else, smarter than the police, like to puff out their chest when they think they've gone undetected. Like most of us would do for doing something good at an honest job. Often the thief is very close by, like the arsonist watching the fire, running their mouth in the middle of what's going on to "throw people off the scent", "create confusion" - I would look for the one who's trying to be helpful and talks the loundest and then look hard, that person wants to be close to what's going on for a reason.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Out here it's called "homie" dismentality. Same difference. Actually, I'd rather deal with Good Ol' Boys than homies of any race, any day. The difference is a thread of ethics - what you will do, what you won't do. It's like the joke, "what's the difference between a rat and an attorney? There are some things a rat won't do.

Joel has it right - sooner or later, the truth comes to light. A guy who gives it all back, confesses, and does something more to make things right should be forgiven and considered a friend who learned his lesson, as all of us has at some time in our past. A guy who never learns and is a repeat offender, who gets defensive and goes for his gun goes down in flames.

One thing is certain - don't become a beekeeper until you have your branding iron.


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## keeper (Jan 29, 2012)

Everybody preaches standardization in equipment... here is a perfect reason to have a non-standard hive... I doubt anybody will steal a Dadant Deep hive, they are too heavy and the frames will not fit in any other standard box.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

keeper said:


> I doubt anybody will steal a Dadant Deep hive, they are too heavy and the frames will not fit in any other standard box.


The same as a jumbo?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I really don't mind everything standard except the brand, and the hidden tag, although I admit that I use 10-frame mediums, and I'm going to 2" x 8" material for the short (16 1/4") ends for two reasons. One reason is the finger box joints are VERY strong, the other reason is that the smile handles can be cut a bit deeper for my big, fat fingers.

I guess this thread suggests reason #3 - OK, so it's NON-standard and therefore more identifiable....but are you gonna go make *pentagona*l beehives so you can spot them a mile away? That might not be the most practical idea.

Most passive observers (ie., non-beekeepers) are not going to notice the difference between a standard Langstroth and a Dadant Extra-Deep. Many are still expecting to see a skep basket hive!

The National registry and state / county ID numbers - a standard code, perhaps (?) - and a website / hotline for stolen bee equipment (Brand you honey extractor, you flash heater, your pump, your decapping tank, etc., as well as your woodenware) is what's going to get stolen equipment returned. Maybe a bit slow, but something is better than nothing.

Now we have the National Bee Laboratory, The Eastern and Western Apiculture Societies, State Associations of Beekeeping Clubs, state troopers, state bee inspectors, et cetera - the structure is there, system could be up and running in a month if all the right people decided that stolen bee equipment $uc&$. A programmer with $$$ in his eyes could make it a smartphone app' and sell it to law enforcement agencies, or perhaps bee inspectors / agricultural commissioners, etc. MTINAZ could get his hives back in 3 months.

I'm sure the branding iron guys love me....hahaha


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

How many people have gotten their hives back that were branded?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I've heard many a story of ordinary "good guy" beekeepers calling and notifying proper owners of the whereabouts of their hives, returning hives that got mixed in with their own equipment, asking around at bee club meetings regarding, "Who owns XYZ Apiaries? I found some of his boxes and there's no phone number".

One of my nucs was returned, just because of my color scheme and building style.

Most of us seem to think, "Wouldn't I want him to do that for me? It's the right thing to do." You usually get a friend for life and a vote for president, get to meet other beekeepers, and learn more about beekeeping. It's a win/win situation.

With a system intact, EVERYONE would get their hives back.


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## keeper (Jan 29, 2012)

westernbeekeeper said:


> The same as a jumbo?


Don't know, because I don't know what you are calling a "jumbo". A Dadant hive is 11.75 deep and holds 11 frames, it is basically square. They are no longer sold by Dadant.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

kilocharlie said:


> I've heard many a story of ordinary "good guy" beekeepers calling and notifying proper owners of the whereabouts of their hives, returning hives that got mixed in with their own equipment,


That doesn't sound like intentional theft. A label would work if it is not theft.


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