# Foundationless Frames??



## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

So far the only commercially available frames that are designed to be foundationless are sold by the Walter T. Kelley, company.


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

If you buy the wedge top frames for wax foundation you can break off the "wedge" (its actually just a strip of wood connected by a 1/16 thick wooden hinge) and staple it back on sideways. It only takes a minute and gives you a nice 3/8x 1/8" guide strip in the exact center of the frame. I just made 80 of these yesterday for my all medium foundation less set up, it was pretty easy and seems to be the most common method.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Wedge type frames work fine with the wedge rotated and nailed in to give a guide. I did that last year.

However, you should use at least one drawn comb or sheet of foundation in a new hive to help the bees start out right -- if you put a swarm in a hive full of empty frames, they may decide it's better to put the comb at right angles to the entrance, or diagonally, instead of in the frames. It's even better to start them on drawn comb and insert foundationless frames between drawn ones later.

Hive MUST be perfectly level side to side, as the bees build comb from the top straight down by gravity, and if there is enough tilt to the hive they will cheerfully build from the top of one frame to the bottom of the next! 

In either case, you will not be able to remove the frames until you cut the comb out and re-attach it. Far better to get it going right to start with.

You will also have to move frames around eventually, as the bees will make drone comb at the outsides of the brood nest. Perforce, the brood nest is small to start with, so you end up with a frame of drone comb on either side of a couple frames of brood, and they may limit the brood nest to this size. Once they are strong, insert an empty frame into the brood nest so they draw out brood comb, and keep the drone comb on the outside couple positions when the brood nest has expanded enough. They will rework it eventually, but it's better to keep drone comb out of the brood nest.

Peter


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

bnm, I bought hives from Brushy mnt and frame 149e to use as foundationless. I put paint stir sticks in the grove for a starter, no wax or anything else, worked fine.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Any ideas? 

Lots.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm


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