# Tracheal mite indicators?



## Barry Tolson (May 26, 2004)

Are there any visable signs of tracheal mites? That is...if a hive has problems with tracheal mites, what might one look for in order to come to this diagnosis?
Thanks
Barry
Indianapolis


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## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

Barry,
The only outward signs are K Wing and they drag their back legs. I my area I use grease patties and have never had a problem with tracheal mites.

Terry


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## justgojumpit (Apr 9, 2004)

Does Oxalic Acid take care of the tracheal mites too? I'm guessing since it's a vapor it might, but I know that it solidifies again pretty quickly once it cools down again. It makes some pretty beatiful crystals in my pipe, but I can't see how this would be very good for the bee if she inhaled the acid and it crystallized in her trachea. I'm planning on treating with menthol once the weather gets warm enough in the spring. I treated with oxalic acid in the fall already.

justgojumpit


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<Does Oxalic Acid take care of the tracheal mites too?>>

I've been wanting a definite answer on that one too, so far I've only gotten maybe's.

So I bought NWC queens


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Most of the stock is now resistant by genetic means. Every since Bro. Adam proved it could be bred for most good breeders have been breeding for that.

I haven't seen anything definitive on the Oxalic acid either, but you would think the bees would breath it and that would kill them.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Are there any visable signs of tracheal mites?

Sure, but you need a cheap kid's microscope
and you need to capture and kill a few bees
to examine their trachea.

Instructions are here:
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/Bee_Diseases/trachael_mites.html

Here's an excellent photo of what you
are looking for:
http://msa.ars.usda.gov/la/btn/hbb/tracheal.jpg
Clean plumbing means no mites.
Bugs (or black spots from their droppings)
should never be in a bee's trachea.

I will sample about 20 bees from a hive
by sliding in an entrance reducer, and
holding a clear plastic box with a sliding
top in front of the opening to capture the
next 20 bees that exit. Foragers are the
best to use for samples, as they are known
to be among the oldest bees, and will have
the "worst" infestations, easier to see.

By the time you see K-Wing, you have a very
very very bad case.

If you don't have a small hive beetle where
you are, Crisco patties are cheap insurance,
and are among the most effective preventative
measures one can take against t-mites.

But yeah, if I had t-mite problems, I would
become rather annoyed at my queen supplier.


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

saturday was warm enough for the bees to fly and bring back some pollen (from where... i have no idea). sunday's temperature was just below 40 and i saw dead (and dying) pollen laden bees at the hive entrance.

some had one wing sticking straight out, some had both wings sticking straight out, some (if you looked them in the eye) head "x" wings, like a dragon fly.

i've had sugar patties in the hive since november, i treated with menthol in october, and in the early part of february i tried the menthol, conola saturated paper towel approach.

what am i looking at here?


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2005)

You are probably looking at field bees that got back to the hive too late the previous evening. They missed the landing board and got chilled before they could make it into the hive. You won't lose many this way but you can extend the landing board or use a hive stand with the sloped landing board built in. The "K-wing" symptom that people talk about is only important on live bees, not dead bees.


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

what IS "k-wing"? what does it look like? 

almost all of these bees were on the landing board, but didn't quite make it into the hive.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

The first year we got T-mites (we were watching and testing knowing they were close)we lost a lot of hives over the winter.By spring there would be a grapefruit size cluster of bees in a hive heavy with honey.Or a deadout still full of honey.No dead bees in the hive .I would watch the bees crawl out on a sunny day unable to fly.Havent had any t-mite losses since then,but t-mites + varroa+ nosema = disaster as there are viruses associated with all three.


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2005)

Buford, "K-wings" are wings not folded back against the bees body in a normal position. They are held out away from the bees body at a 45-90 degree angle and unhooked from each other. If you look at the bee from the left side they form the letter "K", hence the name "K-wing".


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Any pictures of the K wing?


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>what IS "k-wing"? what does it look like?
>Any pictures of the K wing? 

Although the bee in the upper part of the photo has problems other than just mites, the k-wing separation can easily be seen on its lower wings. Bees infested with only tracheal mites often look like other bees, except for some having the k-wing. K-wings are also said to be a symptom of nosema. 

http://photo.bees.net/gallery/otherpest/paralysis


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Well... you need a keen eye to notice that when there are tons of bees around. I suppose that is why I am a novice


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

dick,

that photo looks kinda like what i was descibing as "x" wing. in "k" wing, is one of the wings sticking almost straight up in the air?

loggermike,

last spring i opened one hive and found no bees at all, but eggs in the cells. is this the same thing?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

The small clusters would have a queen,but no chance of survival.No bees ,but eggs could mean the hive just dwindled away with T-mites.Or they just absconded for some other reason.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

buford, that is the 'K-Wing'. Sometimes, one of the wings will flop around at odd angles.


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

i guess if my bees had TM they wouldn't have pollen on there back legs. when i saw them with one or two wings stuck straight out i thought the worst. the wings don't really "flop", there just stuck out straight (some with that split, but on both sides instead of one).

as for that hive with eggs but no bees, i figured it might have been a "starvation swarm", but they had a little honey left there. 

oh well, mystery hive i guess.


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

Forget the kid's microscope. While you need on to see the mites, you don't need one to see the scarring that is a result. Rip a bee's head off (highly technical description of procedure) and look at the tracheal openings...pearly white is good...black and crusty is bad...kinda like a smoker's lung (said as I puff a Marlboro...at least it's a Marlboro Light).

BubbaBob


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Rip a bee's head off...
> and look at the tracheal openings...
> pearly white is good...black and crusty is bad

Wow, your eyes are THAT good?
Mine sure aren't.

My optometrist made me get reading glasses,
and she said I had "presbyopia". I told her that
was impossible, as I come from a long line of
Lutherans...


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

To see the actual openings you need magnification, but to see the discoloration is relatively easy...with MY reading glasses, and the carcass held close.

BTW...I switched...Presby to ELCA...

BubbaBob


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Good comments.

The only people today who should be concerned about tracheal mites are queen breeders. They should be testing and verifying that they are not breeding from even marginally susceptible queens.

If you are buying queens that die out over winter from tracheal mites, buy queens from somewhere else. There is absolutely no excuse today for anyone to have bees that are susceptible.

I haven't treated for Tracheal mites ever. I did lose all my colonies in 1988. In 1989, I got some decent Buckfast queens and have not had problems since.

Fusion


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> The only people today who should be concerned 
> about tracheal mites are queen breeders.

A very good philosophy, but I'll say it again:
"The price of honey is eternal vigilance".

> I haven't treated for Tracheal mites ever.

But you still need to check, don't you?
Sure I trust my queen supplier, but I still
test for everything.

The old saying "Trust in Allah, but tie your
camel" was a mistranslation. It actually
should be "Trust in Allah AND tie your camel".

Think about it. 
Slowly.


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

It's not as easy as it seems. I watched my bees beeing examined for t-mites a number of years ago. First the bees need to be properly prepared in a alchohol solution. Then the head needs to be properly pulled of to pull out the Tarachia to see the mites. A lot of patience and a steady hand is needed to do it properly. 

A Kids microscope is probably all that is needed to check for the t-mites, but it needs to be used properly. not the highpower type, we are not preparing slidesk

I was also told to take a couple of bees from each hive in one location to make up a statisticaly correct sample. This way an accurate evaluation can be made of the t-mite load in a beelocation.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

You don't need alcohol, all you need is a pin to pull the head and the first thoracic segment off, and a x10 handlens. If the bee has TM, it's obvious from the darkened appearance of the tracheae, which should be white.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

How many should be checked? How many darkened trachea would be worrisome?


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

A "statistically valid sample" is a difficult thing
when one is speaking of bee colonies that themselves
vary in population by at least a factor of 2 or 3
over a season, but I sample a strict 20 bees from
every other colony in a yard. It may not be
perfect, but it is a least consistent.

Any bees with darkened trachea would be cause for
concern, as one should have zero tolerance for
such things. So, even one bee with a single
tracheal mite would cause me to resample that
colony, pulling perhaps 100 bees for a full-bore
investigation. 

But the solution is to requeen with queens from
a supplier that is willing to make clear statements
about tracheal mites, and stand behind his queens.
There is really no need to "resample", and there
is no need to take the time to post-mortem 100 bees.


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