# What to charge for maintaining hives.



## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

**I want to make it clear that I am not trying to break into commercial beekeeping nor do/did I make any claims to have any special knowledge that would prompt a farmer to go with me rather than an experienced commercial beekeeper. I was approached by some farmers, who typically rent 400 hives, to try running some of their own bees as a means of saving some money. They are running with the project and understand that I am a hobbyist who has a lot to learn. 



(Original post)

Here is my situation. I am a hobbyist beekeeper and have no experience with commercial beekeeping. I've had as many as 4 personal hives at one time and currently have 2. 

This year I will be maintaining 50 hives for some farmers. I will be assembling the hive boxes, installing the nucs, and moving and maintaining the hives throughout the summer. The farmers have purchased all of the bees, hives, and pallets on their own. 

How much would you charge to assemble the hive boxes as well as feed, maintain and move the hives through the summer? I want to be fair but I have no interest in doing this for free. Thanks.


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## Sharpbees (Jun 26, 2012)

I keep 25 hives for a farm. I get $35/hr including travel time. I also maintain the area around the hives, i.e. mowing, trimming and such.


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

Sharpbees said:


> I keep 25 hives for a farm. I get $35/hr including travel time. I also maintain the area around the hives, i.e. mowing, trimming and such.


Do you get anything from honey sales or is it strictly a cash per hour agreement?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

If you get $35/hour that is far more than you would get from honey sales on 50 hives. He is getting travel time too. What is interesting to me is that the farmers are likely paying more than they would if they were renting the bees for pollination. I clearly don't know the details of the arrangements but my opinion is based on my experience. Clint, if they pay you $35/hour take it and run. You will get to learn how to manage 50 hives vs 4 hives. It is 2 different things and from your perspective you are learning on another person's nickel. It's a different thing than going from 600 to 50. If you have experience managing a fair number of colonies when you reduce the numbers it seems like a piece of cake. When you increase the number by an exponential factor such as 12, it seems overwhelming.

Jean-Marc


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

A general answer is, don't work for less than your time is worth. If your regular job is minimum wage in a convenience store, then that is the minimum you should work for. If you are a computer programer making 75 grand or 100 grand, your time is worth that.

The other thought is, they have invested a lot of $ in their bees. They should be willing to pay what that investment is worth protecting, or they should never have bought the bees. 

Unless you view it as a hobby or learning experience.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

AR1 said:


> A general answer is, don't work for less than your time is worth. If your regular job is minimum wage in a convenience store, then that is the minimum you should work for. If you are a computer programer making 75 grand or 100 grand, your time is worth that.


I disagree with that. I am a qualified expert in my own field, and bill clients accordingly, most are very happy to pay the price because they know the work will be top notch, and pass all certification standards on the first go around.

If I was to hire myself out for keeping bees, in that field I am a bumbling amateur. The computer programmer may be worth a hundred grand to write specialty programs, that doesn't make that person worth a hundred grand as a part time beekeeper. In fact, they would be worth far less than an experienced beekeeper that has worked on a thousand hive operation for a few years. I fall directly into this category, in my field I am a qualified expert and demand fees on par with the expertise. As soon as I step outside of my own field, I am just a bumbling amateur, probably not worth minimum wage, and definitely not worth what an experienced beekeeper would be worth for tending a large number of bee colonies.

JM is dead on, it's a new world when you step up from 2 or 3 hives as a hobby, and get into larger numbers with a goal of producing revenue. Even the jump from 2 to 20 forced me to learn a lot about being more efficient with my time when fussing with beehives.


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

You should have asked this question before taking on 50 hives with little experience.
Go Luck.


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Why not do it for the splits and a portion of the honey? If you were doing it for us we would want someone who at the very least had a mentor with more experience looking over their shoulder. Your going to lose colonies. What will they think of that? Your risk is high that you are going to be looked down on if things go a little bit wrong. If honey is not a big deal to them split when possible so they end up with fifty when its all said and done and they should stay happy. I'm with grozzie2 on your experience and what its worth. Be like me trying to be a programmer. I'd be fired in twenty minutes. 
Good luck.


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

Hillbillybees said:


> If you were doing it for us we would want someone who at the very least had a mentor with more experience looking over their shoulder.
> Good luck.


I've got that, but they run their own bees. I've spent my life around animals, albeit primarily mammals and birds, so I am very familiar with animal husbandry and the general requirements but I have no experience in billing my services for other people.


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

Hillbillybees said:


> Your going to lose colonies. What will they think of that? Your risk is high that you are going to be looked down on if things go a little bit wrong. If honey is not a big deal to them split when possible so they end up with fifty when its all said and done and they should stay happy.
> Good luck.


We are fully aware of the fact that there will be a learning curve and that some hives probably won't make it. We aren't going into this expecting to make it rich but rather cut out a middle man who has upped his price by 800% over the past 10 years. My plan is to split healthy hives in order to replace failed ones. The bees are needed for pollination more than they are for honey.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I think it is too big a leap from the experience gained from looking after 4 hives to that needed for 50. I think the efficiency of working the hives and knowing what to prioritize just cant simply be scaled up to that degree. From my own rather meditative tinkering with bees I just dont see it easily translating into industry standard level of performance.

There are some fairly standard rates per mile for vehicle usage so that is easy to arrive at. As you are mentioning that you will have a mentor makes me think the hourly rate should be in line with what someone would get working at that level at a successful beekeeping outfit.

In my area of trade qualification that is where I would start similar calculations for an hourly rate. The farmers and you both should be looking at liability issues and performance contingencies.

It sounds like quite an undertaking!


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Sounds like you and the farmer have it figured out. Plan on losing minimum 30% cause that happens more than people admit it. You had 4 but now 2. Unless you sold them that's 50% loss. Your in Texas does the area south of Amarillo have AHB. If so queens are going to be needed from time to time. I hope it works for you. Most farmers, really large farmers have tried this before. Few have made it work. If your pollinating feeding is going to be an issue most of the time. What are they growing? SO many things are stacked against the farmer. It can be done but it can get expensive. Most find it cheaper over time to just pick up the phone and get it done. 
SO you see the bees twice a month. Would you go there for $250.00 each time? When you move them, build boxes, etc. could you then go by the hour for that work? Taking the good with the bad would $10.00 a hive a month work for you thru the season and $5.00 a month thru the winter? It doesn't cost any commercial beekeeper that much to run hives but the economy of scale comes into play. Say $100 per hive a year? The farmer probably saves a little if you can keep the numbers at 50 or more. I hope it works out for you. Let us know.


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

crofter said:


> It sounds like quite an undertaking!


You are right. I hope I don't regret it.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

ClintP said:


> You are right. I hope I don't regret it.



You'll do fine, :thumbsup: people who don't think they can are right.


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

Flyer Jim said:


> You'll do fine, :thumbsup: people who don't think they can are right.


Thanks. I feel like I've taken quite the beating on here today.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

Have you thought about the time it will take you? Mine take me a lot more time than I imagined.


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

dlbrightjr said:


> Have you thought about the time it will take you? Mine take me a lot more time than I imagined.


Yes. With my job, I am off during the summers and tend to have spare time during the early fall. The guys I will be working with have a lot of downtime late fall to winter. There will be a couple of months where things will get bit tight. Next year, April will be pretty hectic but we will cross that bridge when we get there.


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## rv10flyer (Feb 25, 2015)

$400/week, labor only, paid weekly. They provide all supplies. I had 50 last yr and would not do it for any less, especially including assembly, paint, feed, etc. You can do it, but don't plan on much family time if you already work a regular job. Hehe.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

This makes me think about the show pigs my wife and kids went and picked up with our ag teacher some years ago. I was very upset when I got home to find out they had spent $200 dollars per pig. $200 dollars for a pig!!!!! I decided I could do better raising them myself. It ends up those $200 dollar pigs were a bargain. We did very well with what we raised, but, it cost me a whole lot more. I hope this works out economically for the farm!


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

rv10flyer said:


> $400/week, labor only, paid weekly. They provide all supplies. I had 50 last yr and would not do it for any less, especially including assembly, paint, feed, etc. You can do it, but don't plan on much family time if you already work a regular job. Hehe.


$200 is a crazy bargain. I grew up showing pigs and even in th 90s $200 is a good deal.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

You may wind up with those 50 hives yourself for a very good price in the near future after they see the cost of maintaining year round. 
What about $5 per hive per visit for bee maintenance. That gives you about $20 and hour for 12.5 hours. Part of the year that's weekly and other times much less. They provide all supplies. That only gives u about 15 min a hive but bump it to $6 and the avg goes up to 18 min per hive. You will become more efficient as you go. However, some things like OA treatments may take longer. 
If they are looking to buy unassembled to save money tell them to forget about it. To a beekeeper he doesn't mind doing that because it's for himself and to them that time is free. If they have to pay for it the cheapest way is store bought ready to go........
Good luck


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

ClintP said:


> We are fully aware of the fact that there will be a learning curve and that some hives probably won't make it. We aren't going into this expecting to make it rich but rather cut out a middle man who has upped his price by 800% over the past 10 years. My plan is to split healthy hives in order to replace failed ones. The bees are needed for pollination more than they are for honey.


"Middle man", you mean the other beekeeper?
800% increase does not mean anything without context. How many dollars are they paying for the pollination service and what does that include?

Assuming the other guy knew what he was doing, what makes the farm think they can do it for less. I bet they are making assumptions based on little to no practical experience. They are betting that you can do it for less than the other guy. I see this sort of thing around here all the time. The truth of the matter is, it takes a lot of inputs for bees to be good. Sure somebody can do it for less but quality diminishes as a general rule. This is something that I don't fully comprehend, what makes the farm think you are a better bet? Your experience is limited. I am not saying you cannot do it, I just wonder why the farm would pick you over the previous beekeeper. Personally I would rather take my vehicle to a shop that has been around 20 years with a good reputation than to a high school student who like tinkering with cars. here are of course exceptions to this but generally the car will be better serviced by a professional. It is not a money thing, I need the car to go from A to B.

Jean-Marc


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## ClintP (Apr 13, 2016)

Well, it looks like I am dropping out of this forum. I am just trying to help some guys out and am getting WAY too much grief from the people I was coming to for help. Thanks to those of you who actually tried to assist me. 

Goodbye beesource.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

Looked like good advice to me. Not near as much grief as is possible with those kind of arrangements. Best of luck.


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## AmericanApiaries (Jan 27, 2017)

Do not take it too hard. They are just being realistic. This is the commercial forum. As others have mentioned, many other farmers have had the same idea to save money and in most cases it proves best to leave the job to a professional beekeeper. If this situation does not work out, as it often doesn't, you will be an easy person for the farmers to blame. I am not commercial scale but I have made the jump from 1 in the backyard to 50 in outyards, and it is a much different experience. If I had been offered this job when I had one hive I probably would have been very excited about it. But I would have been in for a rude awakening. If you do decide to move forward with this, do not give up on beesource. There are a lot of people on this board who have the experience to really help you. However if they think the issue is that you are biting off more than you can chew, they will tell you so. Again, do not take it personally. 

On another note, you said the farmers usually rent 400 colonies. So if they purchased 50, does that mean they are still going to rent 350? I think it will prove difficult for them to beat the pro beekeeper on price.


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## nediver (May 26, 2013)

If someone told you your going to fail and were foolish to begin with that's wrong. No one on hear no matter how much you have seen it can predict who will win/lose. As was noted your mindset against any odds often determines whether you succeed/fail. Letting the grief get to you is more foolish though than the person who presumes to know you and what your capable of. Reading the thread it's clear you got a lot of valuable advise, you need to be better about taking good and bad when you solicite for opinions and get exactly that. I hope you stay and tell us in a year about the journey good, bad, or ugly.


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## Sharpbees (Jun 26, 2012)

Strictly a cash per hour agreement.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

ClintP said:


> Well, it looks like I am dropping out of this forum. I am just trying to help some guys out and am getting WAY too much grief from the people I was coming to for help. Thanks to those of you who actually tried to assist me.
> 
> Goodbye beesource.



Well, that's unfortunate. I assume maybe you have lived a secluded life on the farm and this was your first online bulletin board experience. Had you been around the internet awhile before coming here, you would have figured out that 90% of asking for advice online is knowing how to filter the BS from the real information and the other 10% is learning how to apply it to your own needs and situations. 

Reading through these responses, I didn't see much "beating up" on you. I saw that, as usual in this hobby, everyone who responded had an opinion. Some were based on personal experience. Some were pulled right out of their rear ends. Here's a hint, those latter ones are the ones you filter out as BS. 

Good luck in your beekeeping endevour. I hope it works out for you. Maybe a few more stings will thicken your skin some and make these bulletin board experiences more tolerable for you.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

Gumpy said:


> 90% of asking for advice online is knowing how to filter the BS from the real information and the other 10% is learning how to apply it to your own needs and situations.



Very true. Of course in the spirit of online forums I have to say it is probably closer to 80% and 20%. Just kidding!


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