# Winterloss?



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Mark, are you having some issues with this?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not really. Just that it seems to me that CCD and Winterloss are two different things. Aren't they?


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Yes.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Can you explain what you mean by die back other than winter loss?
Are hives that you choose to combine due to weakness or lack of build up included?
Are you refering to hives that are completely dead and without activity?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I think I know where Mark is coming from. I call it attrition. If you start 100 nucs, maybe 10% never do "catch" a queen. Of the remaining 90, maybe another 5 to 10 % are lost through the course of the season due to (probably) a combination of poorly mated queens, handling loss (at least to migratory operations) issues such as robbing, second matings gone awry because hives were moved and whatever. All pretty normal things we have always seen in beekeeping. I am satisfied if 85 out of the original 100 are strong, thriving hives in the fall but disappointed if it goes much below that. Of those remaining 85 I am happy if 75 are one solid box of bees or better the next February 1. the other 10 being primarily small hives with a few dead sprinkled in here and there. I guess those are my "losses" and they always seem to run pretty close to those numbers year in and year out. The way I look at it is you just start 10 to 15 percent more than you want to run and not even concern yourself too much with attrition.


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> The way I look at it is you just start 10 to 15 percent more than you want to run and not even concern yourself too much with attrition.


Great explanation as usual Jim. As a hobbyist, I was quick to boost up a hive at the expense of a healthier one. Moving up to "side-liner", I'm becoming more hesitant to do that and possibly cause 2 hives to fail rather than the one.


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## sylus p (Mar 16, 2008)

Jim talks about,"poorly mated queens, handling loss (at least to migratory operations) issues such as robbing, second matings gone awry because hives were moved and whatever," but

I dont think this is what Mark is talking about in regards to "Die Back" as he specifically says, "Just that it seems to me that CCD and Winterloss are two different things. Aren't they?"

So Mark seems to be talking about die back and ccd as being related or the same. CCD is not a robbing, poor mating, or q squished betwwen bouncing frames issue.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> I think we need a name .


https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1001465_600029050015764_1520888582_n.jpg
We sure could use our tax dollars much better than chasing the wind, all of these folks flying here flying there to attend a meeting on this ppb die off.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Pardon my interruption...

If the average winter losses are in the area of 30%, shouldn't you have an extra 30% of 'Honeybees' in general since that would more accurately reflect the market demand, as opposed to your own losses?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Hey, if nothing else, we now know what Keith likes to read on Sunday morning. 
On a side note (sort of ) am I the only one that has resorted to avoiding at all costs having to tell strangers that I am a beekeeper? Its inevitable that the next question is, "so are all your bees dying too"? Sigh.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> Hey, if nothing else, we now know what Keith likes to read on Sunday morning.
> .


You'll never guess what I was doing this morning ?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Welllll you dont have to tell us everything Keith but go ahead, fire away.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

got a new bee machine just trying it out......  got some serious power


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Anybody up for a freindly game of tug-ah-war
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/Leifampcrew008_zpseba86206.jpg

Jimmy I will even give you a head start.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Looks like Keith has been playing in the dirt again.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

WLC said:


> Pardon my interruption...
> 
> If the average winter losses are in the area of 30%, shouldn't you have an extra 30% of 'Honeybees' in general since that would more accurately reflect the market demand, as opposed to your own losses?


How many more colonies would one have to have to get the percentage of dieback down to a more reasonable number? I don't think I understand your question.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> Hey, if nothing else, we now know what Keith likes to read on Sunday morning.
> On a side note (sort of ) am I the only one that has resorted to avoiding at all costs having to tell strangers that I am a beekeeper? Its inevitable that the next question is, "so are all your bees dying too"? Sigh.


Yes, I'm w/ you. I find myself lying to people just to avoid talking about the losses.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Anybody up for a freindly game of tug-ah-war
> http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/Leifampcrew008_zpseba86206.jpg
> 
> Jimmy I will even give you a head start.


Show off. Is that what almond pollination money is for? What kind of machine is that green one. It looks sweet.


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