# African hive inspection



## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

I thought I would share two pics of what a hive inspection looks like in Africa .....and maybe put the fear of god into you at the same time..lol


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Ja Potti I see your bees really like you and your buddy.
Johno


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I'd leave beekeeping in short order....


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

johno said:


> Ja Potti I see your bees really like you and your buddy.
> Johno


And that was a good day! Lol 

When I read about " hot" bees in the USA I can't help but laugh ...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I'd guess there are _no _issues finding newly laid eggs in comb .... you simply don't attempt to do so with all those bees covering your veil!


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Why the gloves Gary?


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Gary have you tried spraying the bees with sugar water when you open the hives, they might learn to stay around and clean themselves. I would try that every time you inspect and they might associate inspections with feeding. your bees seem to be more defensive than the bees I remember from some 35-40 years ago
Johno


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Lordy The reduced visability and noise must make tending them like a walk in the park.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

johno said:


> Gary have you tried spraying the bees with sugar water when you open the hives, they might learn to stay around and clean themselves. I would try that every time you inspect and they might associate inspections with feeding. Johno


:lpf:


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Awesome pics!


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

My gawd. That is crazy. 

How much does honey sell for in South Africa?


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

shinbone said:


> My gawd. That is crazy. How much does honey sell for in Africa?


My guess is not nearly enough.................:lpf: G


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I had bees like that once...


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

johno said:


> Gary have you tried spraying the bees with sugar water when you open the hives, they might learn to stay around and clean themselves. I would try that every time you inspect and they might associate inspections with feeding. your bees seem to be more defensive than the bees I remember from some 35-40 years ago
> Johno


I tried that once ...it just made them mad as hell. Remember the commercial guys in South Africa select for aggression .....it's harder for people to steal the honey ....


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

shinbone said:


> My gawd. That is crazy.
> 
> How much does honey sell for in South Africa?


If you bottle and sell yourself it's about $7 a kg, if you sell wholesale it's much much less....


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

Slow Drone said:


> Why the gloves Gary?


Why the gloves? Lol 
Well it was cold that day ,,,,,, normally I'd be out there in a shorts and a t shirt ( read with a smirking laugh)


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> I had bees like that once...


me too, buckfast


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

potgieter said:


> If you bottle and sell yourself it's about $7 a kg, if you sell wholesale it's much much less....


Since a kilogram is about 2.2 lbs, that comes to less than $3.50 a pound (for us Americans). I am not sure about the value of a dollar in South Africa, but it doesn't seem worth the effort, at least to me.


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## thewhiterhino (Oct 5, 2014)

potgieter said:


> I tried that once ...it just made them mad as hell. Remember the commercial guys in South Africa select for aggression .....it's harder for people to steal the honey ....


Teenagers bent on tipping hives over would get a real surprise with those bees...


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

shinbone said:


> Since a kilogram is about 2.2 lbs, that comes to less than $3.50 a pound (for us Americans). I am not sure about the value of a dollar in South Africa, but it doesn't seem worth the effort, at least to me.


I'll put the dollar in relation to something you'll know.... A quarter pounder at mcdonalds cost $4 and a kg of ground beef costs $9


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

I see South Africa picked up some of Dee Lusby's nucs and brought them back to the continent.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yep, your honey is too cheap, time to start raising prices of it.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Well, I've worked the Lusby's hives and never were they like this. Yes, they would aggressively bump your veil, but not actually land on it and cover it. Let's not exaggerate for sensation.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Time for a "naked beekeeping" video??


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>me too, buckfast

Yes.

>Well, I've worked the Lusby's hives and never where they like this. Yes, they would aggressively bump your veil, but not actually land on it and cover it.

Agreed. I have been to most of her yards at one time or another and never saw bees like that among her bees.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

You know, I would actually be willing to work a hive like that at some point. I think I could learn a lot and I would certainly be able to maintain better composure with what I call a "hot" hive here afterwards...


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## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

Are they actually stinging the veil or are they just landing?


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## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Barry said:


> Well, I've worked the Lusby's hives and never where they like this. Yes, they would aggressively bump your veil, but not actually land on it and cover it. Let's not exaggerate for sensation.


See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imRT8wGe0uM

Unfortunately, whoever filmed this never learned how to edit so the videos are hours long. But check about 20 minutes in. Not only are there not so many bees in these hives, most of them are on the people. The narrative is actually comical, since it is so disconnected from what we are actually seeing.


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

snl said:


> Time for a "naked beekeeping" video??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_BzPcrCt7E


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

peterloringborst said:


> most of them are on the people.


No, few are on the people. Most are in the air. I've experienced it Peter. Nothing like the photos in the first post.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

snl said:


> Time for a "naked beekeeping" video??


You go first.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Look again Barry they are covering their veil! I've experienced AHB before also, they are attracted to the carbon dioxide of your breath. They will cover your veil while fiercely stinging, that is what I've experienced every time. They are dealing with pure AHB and AHB x Cape Bees not at all like the AHB x Europeans we have here in the states in other words honey bee defensive behavior in it's rawest form.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Give me an exact time and I will.



> They are dealing with pure AHB


Who is "they"


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Lauri said:


> You go first.


Sure, any February 30th!!


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Frame grabs from the North King Inspection video of Dee Lusby AHB.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Barry said:


> Give me an exact time and I will.


Hee hee, that sure made me smile


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

JWChesnut said:


> Frame grabs from the North King Inspection video of Dee Lusby AHB.


Right, my point exactly. Thank you.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Sorry Barry! I was referring to the OPs pics. i neglected to realize you were referring to the video of Lusby's bees. Again I apologize.


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

JWChesnut said:


> I see South Africa picked up some of Dee Lusby's nucs and brought them back to the continent.


Dee doesn't keep nucs.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Youse really thin skinned. The Dee Lusby comment was a joke. That is spelled J.O.K.E. Its called humor. Folks that are not hyper-defensive all the time appreciate it. Perhaps the hyper-defensiveness rubs off on the bees.


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm glad everyone liked the pics....I'm shipping queens all summer if anyone is brave enough they can have them free of charge! I'm very confident no one will take up the offer...lol


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Gary, if I had to work bees like yours I would keep trying the sugar syrup spray mybe with a little lemongrass oil added. At one of our Virginia State Beekeepers Association meetings some old beekeeper gave a lecture on calming defensive bees by spraying the top bars with the syrup and as time went on the bees grew calmer and calmer. The bee is quite an intelligent insect some old beekeepers swear that the bees begin to recognize the beekeepers scent, who knows, but I have also heard of bees being trained to sniff out plastic explosives in land mines so they do have the capability to learn, But don't believe what you hear because all beekeepers are liars except for me and you, and sometimes I am not so sure about you LOL
President of the Skulpadvrekvandors beekeepers association
Johno


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

potgieter said:


> I'm glad everyone liked the pics....I'm shipping queens all summer if anyone is brave enough they can have them free of charge! I'm very confident no one will take up the offer...lol


I can't imagine having bees like that. I guess it's all relative but I'm going to pass on getting some of those queens for my own hives. However, I've sure got a few folks I'd like to get them drop shipped to!


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Gary, the other thing that might help with inspections is adding some limestone ammonium nitrate to your smoker, some guys on this forum have used it when introducing virgin queens to hives. The L.A.N. becomes laughing gas when heated in the smoker and this seems to do something to the bees. If you make enough smoke you might begin to think that being smothered in bees is quite funny. With your bees all over you like they are it must be impossible to inspect combs. I guess if you have more hives they are quite far apart.
Johno


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

JWChesnut said:


> Youse really thin skinned. The Dee Lusby comment was a joke. That is spelled J.O.K.E. Its called humor. Folks that are not hyper-defensive all the time appreciate it. Perhaps the hyper-defensiveness rubs off on the bees.


Accuracy seems to be very important to you when you post. Nothing about being thin skinned or humorless...just notice that folks seem to respect your words and wanted to be clear about Dee's colonies.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

JWChesnut said:


> Youse really thin skinned. The Dee Lusby comment was a joke. That is spelled J.O.K.E. Its called humor. Folks that are not hyper-defensive all the time appreciate it. Perhaps the hyper-defensiveness rubs off on the bees.


It WAS funny. A lol moment for sure.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

johno said:


> With your bees all over you like they are it must be impossible to inspect combs.


 It might be easier since it appears there are zero bees remaining in the hive. 

My question is how does one get that many bees off of them, and how do you not lose half of your hive because they lost their stinger and died ?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

snl said:


> Time for a "naked beekeeping" video??


Actually I think JWChesnut should go first. 
I'm not sure if he's had too much bee sting therapy or not enough. But well see just how 'thin skined' HE really is 
(Sorry John, you made yourself a bit of a target on this one. Just joking ya know )


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

With all due respect to everyone on this thread, including Dee Lusby who is obviously a successful beekeeper, I would not be keeping bees like the ones in potgeiter's photos or the ones in Dee Lusby's video, at least in the locations that I am now. Stinging or not, both seem hyper defensive.
http://www.earthlife.net/insects/afr-bees.html
Concerning the video, I have some questions. If those bees aren't agressive, why are they wearing full apparel with gator leggings? Why do they have to literally blow smoke into their veils multiple times? And why does the guy who is filming keep reassuring us that the bees are not killer bees? The video also never showed how long it took or how far away they had to travel before they could take off their gear. 
I'm not trying to start anything here, but I have questions. And when I look at pics/videos of operations such as Michael Palmer's or Keith Jarrett's, I see a slight difference between their stock and the stock in the above videos. If it's not agressive or defensive behavior, then what is it?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Here's an older thread on Dee's bees.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?292140-Latest-Dee-Lusby-Video&highlight=dee+lusby


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

Ahh...
Thanks for that camero7. I'd also like to just reiterate that I don't want to be seen as disrespectful in asking the questions. It's truly fascinating!:thumbsup:


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> It might be easier since it appears there are zero bees remaining in the hive.
> 
> My question is how does one get that many bees off of them, and how do you not lose half of your hive because they lost their stinger and died ?


The only way to get them off is "brushing" and by brushing I mean beating them off with a leafy branch. Then I walk around 100m away and do it again. I guess the hive does loose a lot of bees but there really is no other way.

One of the earlier comments asked if the bees are just sitting there or stinging .....trust me all of them are stinging.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

potgieter said:


> trust me all of them are stinging.


Sure looks like it. 

Are these the only bees you keep in South Africa? I know these are AHB and you also have Cape bees, right? Do you have anything similar to European honey bees? The ones shown in your first post are truly dangerous creatures, and although I've worked nasty bees before (the ones that stick to the veil), I've never seen anything like this.


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## potgieter (Sep 4, 2014)

AstroBee said:


> Sure looks like it.
> 
> Are these the only bees you keep in South Africa? I know these are AHB and you also have Cape bees, right? Do you have anything similar to European honey bees? The ones shown in your first post are truly dangerous creatures, and although I've worked nasty bees before (the ones that stick to the veil), I've never seen anything like this.


In my area they are hybrids between cape and AHB ....unfortunately there are no European bees in South Africa ....heaven knows I would be the first one buying some...lol


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

AstroBee said:


> Sure looks like it.


Just to be clear, only the two photos in the first post are potgieter's bees, not the video.

I don't recall coming away from working the Lusby's bees having stingers all over my clothing. They most certainly were all around looking for a way in, but mass stinging I don't think so. Maybe Dean and Michael can corroborate this.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I was in many of the Lusby's yards over the years. Some yards were nicer than others. Some were quite docile. All were workable. Some were a lot hotter than I would tolerate. None were prone to sting a lot. Not a lot of clinging either. They were prone to follow and hover and bounce off your veil. How far they would follow as one of the most irritating things...

I have seen bees that were not at all workable. But not in Dee's apiaries. On the other hand I don't want bees that hot either.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Barry said:


> Just to be clear, only the two photos in the first post are potgieter's bees, not the video.


Which is exactly what I was referring to.


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

That's just a brutal reaction by the bees. I was at 10,000 feet in the Andes last week and by chance met a beekeeper. We got into a conversation about his bees and he invited me to come see his hives. His hives were africanized and he split them often in order to keep them weak so that he didn't have the kind of fury as seen in the pictures above upon inspection. Being on the Equator they could work year around and apparently produced a couple of supers of honey a year.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

AstroBee said:


> Which is exactly what I was referring to.


OK. What threw me was your comment "Sure looks like it." when potgieter said:



> trust me all of them are stinging.


I haven't a clue how those two photos show that the bees are stinging.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Barry said:


> I haven't a clue how those two photos show that the bees are stinging.


On Oct 1, I posted a link to a youtube by a Kenya beekeeping cooperative. Reposting. The video is worth watching in its entireity, or skip in the harvest section at 5:30 -- but you miss the (Australian-style) special clips to keep baboons from raiding the hives.

This video by "African Beekeepers Limited" -- a Kenyan cooperative shows the extreme aggressiveness of the Kenyan bees, try watching at about 5 minutes in for a intense view of the harvest "it would be suicidal..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPoDgrbZakk

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304155-Africanized-bee-movie&p=1171191#post1171191


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

What's all the hype about Africanized bees? Those look so docile, and did you see those pretty little white spots in that man's gloves?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Barry said:


> I haven't a clue how those two photos show that the bees are stinging.


I had a fellow beekeeper (rookie at the time) call me and ask "what do you do to see out of your veil?" My immediate thought was to make a similar comment like Jim Lyon's story about the big window goes to the front, but hearing his frustration, I decided to go help. I got there the following day and all seemed normal, we smoked the colony well then gently opened it, and sure enough the bees were all over us, thick on our veils. I can assure you, they were definitely trying to sting through the veil! These bees were crazy. We were fortunate enough to find the queen and killed her. The colony was split up and each unit was requeened. All was normal after that, but that's as close to AHB that I've seen, and never want to do that again. We probably should have had the bees tested, but all I could think of was to fix the problem as soon as possible.


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