# Small cell mite count



## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

?? Please explain -- "2 medium deeps".


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## Tulipwood (Jul 16, 2006)

*Oops*

Meant to say two medium boxes.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

The following mite counts are from a hive on std LARGE cell foundation.

MITE COUNTS - 2003
Apr 12 – Installed 3# Package
Jun 1 – 0
Jun 9 – First Mite
Jun 25 – 5
Jul 27 – 14
Aug 7 – 21
Aug 18 – Apistan IN
Oct 5 – Apistan OUT
Oct 20 – 11
Nov 20 – 12
Nov 21 – 14
Nov 22 – 16
Nov 30 – 3.3 (26/8)

(This hive survived for 3 more years!)


When looking at the above numbers of 20 vs 168, dont forget that a "first year" colony generally ALWAYS has lower numbers than an "established" hive.


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## Tulipwood (Jul 16, 2006)

*Not using Apistan.*

I am not using Apistan. I do plan to do a formic acid treatment (Mite-Away) on the hive with the higher count.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>I am not using Apistan . . .
>hive with the higher count . . .

You missed my point! 
(I was not suggesting the use of Apistan)


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## Tulipwood (Jul 16, 2006)

*Yes*

Yes, I did.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Here are some of my thoughts 

Your SC "package" hive has a mite drop of 20 (Sept ?).
My LC package hive had a mite drop of 21 (Aug 7).

No two hives are EVER THE SAME, but is there an advantage to SC?

I chose to treat my package, not because of the 21 mite drop, but because of the "trend" in the numbers. What is your trend? Is it up? Is it steady? Is it declining?

A first-year hive "usually almost never" has high mite drops because the mite population is low. As year(s) go by, the infestation grows and so does the mite drop of mites dying of "old age". A 2-, or 3-yr old hive can have drops in the hundreds.


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## CSbees (Aug 7, 2007)

It is interesting to see statistics come in to beekeeping. A once whimsical hobby is now a science.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

So much goes into this, discussions go round and round.

So what was your point tulipwood?

You mention one hive from Don on smallcell and one in transition. Don, I believe has russians. So is the other hive the same genetics as the hive from Don's? How can you compare one to the other if genetics are different? Even if its a casual observation.

Thank goodness for people actually doing research the way it should. There is a thread about the work done in Florida I believe, that shows mite drops/counts for both smallcell and large cell to be almost the same. Except for the smallcell hive having a slightly higher bee count, which does not surprise me as a cluster can only raise what it can keep warm at night and more cells within the cluster means more bees, the total mite raised within the hives were very similar.

Which of course, raises all types of questions and side issues about number of bees versus number of mites, what happens as each hive drops in population numbers throughout the winter, and so on.

But at least the research shows to some degree that the number of mites being counted within each hive were comparable.

So tulipwoods numbers of 20 and 168 means little and any casual observation or applying some wrong meaning should be avoided.

Many things go into "reading" mite counts. DaveW pointed out one.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I think you meant Dave W, but I'll add my read and say a count of 168 is going to need a treatment to survive.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

MichaelW,
What on earth are you talking about??? 

I would of been doing something LONG before my hives reached a count of 168.


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## Tulipwood (Jul 16, 2006)

*Gonna shut up*

Think I am just going to shut up and not share too much around here. Too many chips on too many shoulders.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Hey Tulipwood,

don't let em run you off
we need the data
they just "don't play well with others"
folks have been arguing this stuff for a long time
the question is, what are you going to do once your mite counts get high?
I used Apiguard this year, I'm going to do OA at xmas
I have 2 hives of HSC I'm doing nothing to
others are doing powdered sugar and FGMO/thymol, other stuff too
don't be afraid of the arguing, Bjorn just needs to get his mead done so he can relax

Dave


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I was just offering advise. This would be a pretty useless forum if someone reported a mite count of 168 and no one replied that thats a high number and needs treatment. Bjorn's basically saying the same thing in his unique and "stimulating" way. and Dave was probably just putting his numbers up to give a comparison.

Doing mite counts is good, more beekeepers should actually ask this question of "is this hive infested?". Few beekeepers do that and either just treat or just let their hives die. The problem with treating when there not infested is you kill the weak, the strong survive, and you breed up better mites. Supposedly Api-gaurd/var and Formic Acid is supposed to instead kill mites at random, although I've never seen one shred of evidence to support that. The problem with letting them die, is well... they die.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Tulipwood,
Your statement asked no questions, left vague information, and yet made some (Not sure what exactly) reference that was to be left open to each reader to evaluate and digest as one see's fit.

I'm not even sure where this thread was to go. So I was just shooting from the hip so to speak. My reply sometimes has nothing to do with the original poster, but is sometimes comments shared knowing how many people will be reading the thread. And so I was making some additional comments and expanding the information or perhaps clear some points. 

Although I could be seen as having a chip (Something I'm trying to work out), my comments were not intended to tick anyone off. And beleive me, I'm not afraid of admitting that when it does happen.

Your comments were for either seeking advice(no question asked), or giving data, for which I hope people can absorb knowing there are always issues and additional questions needing to be asked. You state two sets of numbers. But do you (and others) realize that there are many variables that go into those numbers? If you do, fine. But I sometimes assume that there will be at least one of the 5,000 beesource members who may not.

BTW, I threw this in as a "precautionary" move. I really didn't think my comments were causing the reply/response from you. I agree, that MichaelW and DaveW can be real irritating sometimes.  Don't let them get to you.....


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

BjornBee said:


> There is a thread about the work done in Florida I believe, that shows mite drops/counts for both smallcell and large cell to be almost the same.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but the research you are talking about, I believe, was done at the University of GA.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>MichaelW and DaveW can be real irritating sometimes . . . 

Please explain.


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