# drone frame for varroa control



## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

Has anyone tried the drone frame method to control varroa and how were the results?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Ongoing discussion on removing drone comb:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?292815-Drone-comb-loaded-with-mites


----------



## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks for that link mike that discussion got a bit heated good read though


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Drone brood culling can be effective but the beekeeper must be absolutely diligent. If you fail to remove the drone cell frame before the drones emerge, you may actually make your mite infestation worse. 
Labor intensive and requires commitment.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> If you fail to remove the drone cell frame before the drones emerge, you may actually make your mite infestation worse. 

Many things in life are counter intuitive. I let them build as much drone as they want (foundationless). I leave all of the drone comb and I leave all of the drones to emerge. It is difficult to find any Varroa in my hives. It may make it better...


----------



## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

It helps in removing mites, just put a foundationless frame in the brood area & they will draw it out as drone comb.
The green plastic frames are a pain in the.....


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> The green plastic frames are a pain in the.....

Presumably foundationless frames cost less than those green plastic frames, but other than $ what is the pain factor for the plastic drone frames?


----------



## jimsteelejr (Sep 21, 2012)

just a thought-If most of the mites go to the drones do the mites then leave the drones and go to the workers or do they stay attached to whoever they hatched on? If they stay then what difference do infected drones make if they move then you definitely need to freeze the drone frames before the drones emerge.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

jimsteelejr said:


> If most of the mites go to the drones do the mites then leave the drones and go to the workers or do they stay attached to whoever they hatched on?


They move.


----------



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I think one of the issues with using drones frames is timing. Leave them in too long and you're creating more mites than usual. My schedule is quite challenging at times so keep that in mind. If you use drone frames, you need to get in there and clean them up before the drones emerge. It does pay to keep careful records.


----------



## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Our bees didn't draw the wax properly on the green frames, & We didn't like keeping them in the freezer until we needed them.
The foundationless was simple, cut out the wax & put it back in the hive.




Rader Sidetrack said:


> > The green plastic frames are a pain in the.....
> 
> Presumably foundationless frames cost less than those green plastic frames, but other than $ what is the pain factor for the plastic drone frames?


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I've been told the nooks and crannies on the green frames make good hiding places for SHB. But then again, maybe they double as SHB traps, presuming you're doing due diligence on the drone brood.

I expect to try them this year, but more of a science project than because I think this approach is the final answer.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

If you check out Randy Olivers site, Scientific Beekeeping, he shows how to make a drone frame out of a regular deep frame. They will store honey at the top and raise drones under the divider strip. You just cut out the drone comb after it is capped off and they rebuild it again, easier than the green drone frames that you have to freeze.


----------



## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

Who needs to remove the drone frame when you cook the mites in place?

https://www.mitezapper.com/How-it-Works_c_19.html


----------



## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> >Many things in life are counter intuitive. I let them build as much drone as they want (foundationless). I leave all of the drone comb and I leave all of the drones to emerge. It is difficult to find any Varroa in my hives. It may make it better...


When you see a post like this the conversation should turn to ....."(foundationless)" ....."It is difficult to find any Varroa in my hives..... THANKS Michael, Think I'll try that!!!!! Forget looking for the silver bullet, we know from experience it does not exist. Beeks have been looking for it since before the Elgon project!!!!

OH by the way thanks to the "foundationless" pioneers


----------



## Upper Chi Bees (Jan 4, 2014)

I use the green drone frames. I've coated them with wax, to get the bees to draw out. They do ... sometimes. I take the frames out before hatching (hopefully). I'll scrape the cappings, and rest the frames on a solid surface. The local cat birds are around waiting for me to lay the foundation down, then they enjoy the feast.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The bees draw out foundationless very quickly. These frames I wired as I planned to uncap them but you wouldnt have to especially if you take the route of cutting the whole panel out and tossing it.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

What a gorgeous frame of drone brood.


----------



## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

I have used the Randy Oliver's system and it works a treat.






The first photo is of the empty frame with the 2" section above and the lower section with just a starter strip. Second photo is 28 days later when filled with drone cells. A quick cut with a hive tool and all the drone cells removed. Chooks love the protein of the drone lave.


----------



## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

b2bnz said:


> I have used the Randy Oliver's system and it works a treat.
> View attachment 9042
> The first photo is of the empty frame with the 2" section above and the lower section with just a starter strip. Second photo is 28 days later when filled with drone cells. A quick cut with a hive tool and all the drone cells removed. Chooks love the protein of the drone lave.


works in Germany and America too.


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

crofter said:


> The bees draw out foundationless very quickly. These frames I wired as I planned to uncap them but you wouldnt have to especially if you take the route of cutting the whole panel out and tossing it.


Hah! Neat! I'm new enough that I'd never seen foundationless on a Langstroth frame. I thought it was just a top-bar thing. So that's all there is to it? That goes on my list of things to try. Thanks for the absolutely great pics!


----------



## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

Duncan Thacker said:


> works in Germany .....


We have to little varroas to descern it.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I like the idea of using running the plastic foundation down through the horizontal division bar to give a comb guide for the bees to start off straight with.:thumbsup:


----------



## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

sjj said:


> We have to little varroas to descern it.


Not my experience in Amberg!


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I dug this thread back up to ask a noobee question. I've got two hives equipped with green drone frames that have been in service about 6 weeks now. Painting a stripe of burr comb wax across the tops of these frames did generate a little interest, but they're still not drawing them out much. One of them has a little nectar stored in it. Drones are being squeezed in to comb elsewhere.

It is finally sinking in to my thick head that I might not have put them in the right spot. If you want them to raise drones in these frames, wouldn't they have to be adjacent to the broodnest?  Not just in the brood box, but adjacent to combs in which brood are being heavily tended?

And if you pull them out to freeze them, I presume you need to close up the broodnest if it has spread beyond the drone comb?


----------



## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Duncan Thacker said:


> When you see a post like this the conversation should turn to ....."(foundationless)" ....."It is difficult to find any Varroa in my hives..... THANKS Michael, Think I'll try that!!!!! Forget looking for the silver bullet, we know from experience it does not exist. Beeks have been looking for it since before the Elgon project!!!!
> 
> OH by the way thanks to the "foundationless" pioneers


Not to be mean but I have hundreds of Foundationless hives. These colonies are not any better at varroa. Drone comb removal is smart and profitable for the beekeeper and his bees. Beekeeping is like any other business or hobby you get what you put into it. There is no free honey.


----------



## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Phoebee said:


> I dug this thread back up to ask a noobee question. I've got two hives equipped with green drone frames that have been in service about 6 weeks now. Painting a stripe of burr comb wax across the tops of these frames did generate a little interest, but they're still not drawing them out much. One of them has a little nectar stored in it. Drones are being squeezed in to comb elsewhere.
> 
> It is finally sinking in to my thick head that I might not have put them in the right spot. If you want them to raise drones in these frames, wouldn't they have to be adjacent to the broodnest? Not just in the brood box, but adjacent to combs in which brood are being heavily tended?
> 
> And if you pull them out to freeze them, I presume you need to close up the broodnest if it has spread beyond the drone comb?


Best place for them is up against a pollen frame on the edge of the broodnest in a ten frame hive it would often be positions 3 and 7. Getting the earliest spring trappings are the most valuable but the less stress the better.


----------



## jimsteelejr (Sep 21, 2012)

yes they need to be where the queen will lay in them so put them in the brood area next to a frame of brood. When the queen starts laying in them you need to pull them and freeze them about ever two weeks. The idea is to let the mites settle in with the drones but kill the mites before they can reproduce and infest more bees. If you wait too long the drones hatch and you have actually increased your mite load. When you take out a frame replace it with another drone frame. The day before you plan to switch pull the other one out of the freezer to thaw. Scratch the caps off and shake out most of the dead drones. The bees will handle the rest. After you get drone frames built out You can rotate them every two weeks all summer long. /by the way even if you don't shake out most of the dead drones the bees will still clean out the comb it just makes more work for them lugging the dead out so I try to save them a little time and energy.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If you want them to raise drones in these frames, wouldn't they have to be adjacent to the broodnest?

That would be the most predictable place, yes. But I've seen a queen cross several supers to lay in drone comb when there was none in the brood nest.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> >If you want them to raise drones in these frames, wouldn't they have to be adjacent to the broodnest?
> 
> That would be the most predictable place, yes. But I've seen a queen cross several supers to lay in drone comb when there was none in the brood nest.


:thumbsup:


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

> Drone brood culling can be effective but the beekeeper must be absolutely diligent.


I worked on a University study which seemed to indicate the frames could keep mite levels low all summer. Then I did a very strict trial with my own hives where I put in empty frames and cut the combs out whenever there was sealed drone brood (or honey, sometimes they get filled up with honey). 

The technique kept mites from building up until late August when the mite numbers went through the roof. I think they pick them up from robbing other mite infested hives. Lost the whole bunch, doing that technique. Can't recommend it.


----------



## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Yes plop it i the right brood area, they might draw it faster.


----------



## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

I did go to a lecture by Dr.James Tew he did say that's the green frames for drones did not work well in the Southeastern part of the USA they did work well in the Northeast.



BEE HAPPY Jim 134


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> Many things in life are counter intuitive. I let them build as much drone as they want (foundationless). I leave all of the drone comb and I leave all of the drones to emerge. It is difficult to find any Varroa in my hives. It may make it better...





Duncan Thacker said:


> When you see a post like this the conversation should turn to ....."(foundationless)" ....."It is difficult to find any Varroa in my hives..... THANKS Michael, Think I'll try that!!!!! Forget looking for the silver bullet, we know from experience it does not exist. Beeks have been looking for it since before the Elgon project!!!!


I have to somewhat agree with Michael Bush. What he did not say, was that what he described is a part of a treatment free operation, which has been going on for a while. If you right now start and let them raise drones as much they want, sure it will be a disaster. But in the long run they play a vital part in all successfull treatment free beekeeping efforts. How could it be otherwise? They bring 50% of the genes.

I have some observations of my hives (all TF) that strong hives which have mite load (infestation) going up, above some limit maybe, make a lot of dronebrood and "trap" mites themselves. Then they drag out the infested drones and get the varroa mites in control. Drones are also, because of their haploid genetics or just because they are made in the sides of broodnest, more vulnerable against chalkbrood and other diseases and viruses, and these diseases fight the mites too. 

( My hives have 2 inces free space under the frames of the bottom box)


----------



## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

Not mine in Kippenheim too!


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

So far what I'm seeing is no drones on the green frames. Where they've drawn it out they seem to be using it for nectar. 

Maybe next year. 

The green nectar frame is one of those that I failed to place next to the broodnest.


----------

