# Insurance Claim Help



## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

Sounds to me like he is wanting to know the cost of extracting the honey that you sell for $6 a pound since you do not have to extract the honey. So you would have to estimate what it cost to pull the honey, extract, bottle and deliver it.


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## Arbol (Apr 28, 2017)

Bees are considered Livestock not insects, Dept of Ag definition. maybe point this fact out, cows horses goats etc are insured livestock.
good luck,


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I would interpret that request as the "production cost" is whats left after you subtract your "profit" from the wholesale sale price.  Remember, every business needs to make a _profit_. :thumbsup: And profit is not the same thing as the business owner's _labor_.

Odds are you don't have a full set of records that detail exactly what your production costs are for just the destroyed hives, so simply assign a _reasonable_ profit margin, subtract that from your wholesale selling price of $6 per pound, and forward that on to the claims agent.

Obviously profit margins vary, depending on the type of business and the perspicacity of the owner/manager. In my opinion, no one could argue with you if you reported a 15% profit margin and subtracted that from $6/lb, for a "production cost" of $5.10 per pound.

.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

Part of your production costs is the cost of packages in the spring. So make sure you add the $150 for each colony that was destroyed. Also include any treatment costs, sugar syrup costs, etc.


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## billabell (Apr 19, 2010)

Get out your insurance policy and read it. Do not take the word of the claims rep as to what is covered and what is not. If you had a business beekeeping policy I question why the bees are not covered for a casulty loss. This is not like your bees dying from varroa or whatever. If you have a relationship with an attorney or accountant they might take a quick look at it for you.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback. My wife is an attorney but in all my business dealings she has always told me "work it out with them"...end of quote. In other words nobody want to end up in court as its the attorneys that end up winning. All of your comments helped me think this through ...


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I did not have a specific insurance policy dedicated to bees specifically.. I purchased a liability insurance policy for selling honey in retail markets. A million dollar liability policy isn't that expensive. Under that policy they do cover equipment and product. So if my honey house burnt down and my homeowners wouldn't cover the contents because its a business this policy would. I filed a claim for equipment as well as for the loss of honey as the colonies were destroyed during a honey flow.


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## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

Riskybizz said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. My wife is an attorney but in all my business dealings she has always told me "work it out with them"...end of quote. In other words nobody want to end up in court as its the attorneys that end up winning. All of your comments helped me think this through ...


We would all be better of if we followed that advice.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I have over 25 years of experience in this area. You have been given some good advice and some bad advice. What the claims adjuster is trying to do is to lower the amount they have to pay you. I am not saying that is unfair, your policy needs to be looked at by a lawyer if you can afford it. Without seeing your policy I would guess that the fair settlement would be your retail price of total honey expected to be sold minus costs of selling that honey. It sounds as though your costs would be very low. Perhaps a few filters and the buckets you sell them in unless they return them back to you. You do not include the cost of raising the bees,mite treatments, equipment costs, Etc. Also you should not be expected to include your labor because you get paid from the profits which is the retail cost minus your expenses. If you hire someone to extract then that would have to be subtracted from your profits. I would email the adjuster and ask what specifics they want. I would not talk to him or her on the phone. If you purchased the policy through a local friendly insurance guy or gal I would give them a call. I would definitely look at the policy and perhaps consult an attorney about whether the bees should be covered. Good luck, it's always frustrating dealing with insurance companies. I should know, I worked for them.J


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Thanks Five I appreciate the feedback


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

This was my initial reply to the claims adjuster: "If I am understanding you correctly you want the Actual Cash Value of my honey which would be todays Market Value. That amount would represent the dollar amount that I would expect to receive for my honey if sold in todays marketplace. ACV=replacement cost minus depreciation. There is no depreciation for the value of honey as honey appreciates every year. So based upon the price per lb. at my local farmers market in Santa Fe, the ACV of my honey would be $10.00 per lb. I do sell my honey at certain markets and events each year where my advertised price is $10.00 per lb. Let me know if this is the information you need."


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## MaynerdOllie (May 20, 2017)

If the bears were relocated to your area the USDA might help with replacement costs pf bees.


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## CBQueens (Sep 13, 2017)

Sorry to hear of your loss.... What state did this occur in?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I would say it is in NM where the OP live?


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Just a follow-up to my previous posts. I received a sizeable check from my insurance company today. Seems as if my worries regarding my claim were unfounded. I just sent them a quick email and told them my production costs were around $5.65 per lb. for honey production. I really never sat down to try to figure out one aspect of my bee management before. That $5.65 would cover honey production, colony manipulations, spring and fall feeding, medications, general inspections, queen loss and purchasing replacement queens. My Farmers homeowners insurance refused my initial claim because they considered my beekeeping a business and that automatically took me out of the homeowners category (good old Farmers). I though well...lesson learnt until my wife happened to mention that I had also purchased a product liability insurance policy from another company because some of my retail honey accounts asked to be named co-insured. That policy saved the day as the yearly cost of $299.00 covered me up to $10,000 for equipment, loss of honey, honey house bottling equip etc. So I filed my claim under vandalism, (bear damage) and after a few emails they settled the claim for $5850.00 .


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

Congratulations that should help build a GREAT bear fence.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Riskybizz said:


> ...
> my production costs were around $5.65 per lb. for honey production....


You net $0.35 per pound?


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

No of course not. How do you put an exact figure on your cost per lb. for honey production? I make money on honey sales, queen sales, nuc sales, wax, Propolis, etc. Essentially they paid me what I asked for at $6.00 per lb. bulk wholesale price for the honey I lost at vandalism plus the cost of the damaged equipment; frames, foundation, boxes etc.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

MikeJ said:


> You net $0.35 per pound?


It probably is, after paying oneself a wage for tending the bees and doing all the work leading up to extraction, that is part of the 'cost of production'. A mistake I see a lot of folks making with the bees, is not factoring anything for time, then calculating a fairly substantial 'profit' from the endeavor. Reality is, that would be the difference between a business and a hobby, as hobby time counts for $0.00 value. But if it's a business, it should be paying the help (be that help owner or or otherwise employed) for the work, and that payment would be part of the cost of production.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

I am not an accountant, so my terminology isn't always right - but....
(this is books - not insurance)

Equipments/bees/etc (non-consumable.... not used up in production) could be added to the expense list (depending on amount) - but most likely done just like depreciation... Total expense divided by the number of years it is expected to remain in service. That amount is put as an expense each year until it is paid off (but by then your buying again so it starts over).

Treatments/Feeds/bottles/etc. (consumables... used up for that year's production) direct expenses.

General expenses like travel (for fuel AND vehicle wear AND related expenses).

Time multiplied by whatever your paying for the work - that is an expense. Might point out - time doesn't mean, how long in the hive - but how long doing what is need to do the work (i.e. travel, cleanup, etc).

I am sure for commercial keepers there is a ton more (but they would most likely fit those categories).
I should point out, that if you spend $0.10 a bottle and sell the honey simply adding $0.10 your only recouping what you spent... your not making money to buy the next bottle.

Like I said, I am not an accountant - I do manage our business' accounts and taxes but I keep it as simple as possible - still tons of paper work.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Wow $5.65 per lb to produce.:scratch: That is some expensive honey. I buy all new bees each year and can still keep my cost at $1.27 a lb. You might want to hire you an accountant.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

I am kind of surprised the insurance company accepted that - did they know your whole sale price? I would have thought you would have gotten a second email wanting to verify that you are only making $0.35/lb.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

The Honey Householder said:


> I buy all new bees each year .....


Care to expound on that statement?


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

snl said:


> Care to expound on that statement?


I would have thought you knew his business model?
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...t-the-bees-call-it-good&p=1582636#post1582636

Pretty good in my opinion. I do disagree with him on one point - I call it beekeeping


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## MaynerdOllie (May 20, 2017)

Did you ever research if the bears were relocated to your area? There could be reimbursement through the usda.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

My yards are located along the Rio Grande river. They come down fro the surrounding terrain every year to search out better food sources. There is no compensation program for bear loss in our state through any agency including the feds. These bears are native to this area and have been here long before I started keeping bees there. I'll put up a fence here but it does get expensive with numerous yards.


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## Tibbigt (Mar 17, 2017)

Check with you?re wildlife game commission here in Pennsylvania if a bear gets a beehive they replace 100% of the cost bees, honey, all equipment that was damaged. Only catch is after the first attack u are required to put up a electric fence if u put one up and hey hit you again they will keep covering you as long as the grant money hasn?t ran out for that year.

And my insurance company also won?t cover bees but will cover all other loses.


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