# candling queen cells



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

found this last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwlosPG7gn0

i'm guessing that queen was about to emerge at any time.

for those of you that candle queen cells, how many days post graft do you check them and what do you expect to see?


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I may not do it correctly, but until they start to darken and move around, I have a hard time seeing anything.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

deknow said:


> I may not do it correctly, but until they start to darken and move around, I have a hard time seeing anything.


would they be darkened and moving by day 10? also, is seeing the grafting cup still full of jelly by then an indication that the queen may not have developed?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

By day 10 after grafting 12 hr larvae? Not darkened. FULL of jelly on day 10 is an indication of possible problems. One cell on a bar? Don't use it. All the cells? Open one and look.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

understood michael, many thanks.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Jelly in the cell on day 10 (after grafting) is a pretty good indication. Occasional ally they can fool you though. My final confirmation is a gentle squeeze of the suspicious cells. Bad ones are mushy while healthy cells are encased in a firm "cocoon" and don't dent.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

thanks jim. the gentle squeeze sounds like another great tip. 

it was you that suggested candling to me a couple of years ago after i had already finished grafting, and then i forgot about it last year.

do you generally place your cells on day 10, and if so what do you expect to see on that day with candling?

do you agree with michael that it's better to see at least some of the jelly gone by day 10?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> thanks jim. the gentle squeeze sounds like another great tip.
> 
> it was you that suggested candling to me a couple of years ago after i had already finished grafting, and then i forgot about it last year.
> 
> ...


Yes, I do agree with that. Day 10 (240 hours after grafting) is a pretty good day to install them. If we have extra cells we might hold them over in a slightly cooler incubator (89 to 90 f) and install them the next morning, the cooler temp usually buys you another 12 to 24 hours before they hatch. I rarely use one with jelly visible at that that stage but usually tear them open out of curiosity, the majority are shrunken and dying or dead though an occasional one appears fully developed and quite normal. A closer inspection of those usually reveals that there was much less rj in the cup than it appeared from the outside. Candling is probably a good idea but I just closely inspect them and expect to see the white abdomens visible through the cups in the bright daylight.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> Jelly in the cell on day 10 (after grafting) is a pretty good indication...


ah, so you meant that [lots of] jelly in the cell on day 10 is a pretty good indication that it might be a bad cell. got it. many thanks jim.

i will be transferring to an incubator before day 10, so i may just let those questionable ones stay in there and see if they emerge. i've only had one experience introducing a virgin and it went ok. on the other hand, going back to the mating nuc a few weeks later and finding out i placed a dud cell was a waste of time and resources.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> Candling is probably a good idea but I just closely inspect them and expect to see the white abdomens visible through the cups in the bright daylight.


That's what I do. On the day I catch the queens, I rarely find an un-emerged cell.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Great thread, Squarepeg. Thank you, Michael, thank you Jim.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

> If we have extra cells we might hold them over in a slightly cooler incubator (89 to 90 f) and install them the next morning, the cooler temp usually *buys you another 12 to 24 hours before they hatch*.


Is there any effect on development, positive or negative, from holding them over a little longer?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> Is there any effect on development, positive or negative, from holding them over a little longer?


I've never noticed it and we keep pretty good records on which go in as 10 day cells and which go in on the 11th day after a slightly cooler incubation in the preceding 12 hours. I wouldn't recommend incubating younger cells at that temperature, though. Interestingly enough, I've seen virgins hatch when left neglected overnight in temps as low as the mid 60's.


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