# First Spring Inspection -- Splitting next Weekend



## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

February 14th is the magic "split" day in North Central Florida. So, today, I did the first full-hive inspection in months! Pulled every bar. Here is what I found:
["back"-- faces north] 6 empty bars + 6 honey bars + 11 brood bars + 6 honey bars ["front" -- faces south]

The first 6 empty bars were all covered with bees, chaining, which usually indicates building is going on.
On the honey bars, 1st one was only 1/2 full, all others full.
On brood, 1st bar only had small section drone brood, then next 2 were mixed drone/worker, then workers only, with the southern edge also including some drone again. The worker comb also included larvae (I couldn't see eggs, but then I never have been able to), all with pollen and honey strips across top; some with curing nectar, too.
The last 6 honey bars were full, with the last one being stuck to the end of the hive, which I found out when it pulled free. I'll be harvesting that next weekend!
No swarm cells or queen cups/cells visible anywhere.
Bees -- worker and drone -- everywhere! It's waayy more interesting inspecting a complete colony!!
Only one 3-bar cross-combed clump remaining, in the middle of the brood nest. Maybe that's where the queen hangs out because I certainly didn't see her! 

So, given the inventory, I'm thinking that it's safe to split, though I will buy a queen first. Weather this time of year is funky -- days are often warmish (60s, 70s), with nights still getting down into the 30s, and frequent days of rain. I'll feel better with a queen installed. Should be simple enough to give each hive 5 bars -- the trick is finding the queen. I think if I can't find her next weekend, then I will assume she's in the cross-combed section. Do I leave her in the old hive or move her to the new one? According to our bee meeting this week, I should move the current queen to simulate swarming and put the new queen in the old hive. Splitting makes me so nervous!

Worker Brood









Drone Brood









Half-Bar Capped Honey









Bee foraging on Taiwan Cherry (planted about 2 hours ago!)


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

Since you seem to be aiming for an equal split could you not split and then see which side makes queen cells. You'll know where you queen is then


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

msscha says...

"Only one 3-bar cross-combed clump remaining, in the middle of the brood nest. Maybe that's where the queen hangs out because I certainly didn't see her!"



I would be fixing this comb problem before I tried to split the hive, if it was me.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

Personally, I wouldn't try fixing it with brood and the queen in the midst of it. You will not only kill brood, you could kill the queen, too. I would place empty brood combs at the front end of the cross-combed brood and as the queen fills it with brood, repeat until the cross-combing has been moved to the rear of the hive. The queen won't like being so far from the entrance and will abandon it, at which point you can cut it out. That's what I did with one very badly cross-combed hive. However, my entrances are at one end, not in the middle of one side. Where are yours?


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

AugustC said:


> Since you seem to be aiming for an equal split could you not split and then see which side makes queen cells. You'll know where you queen is then


I found out at our bee club meeting last week that it is officially illegal for a non-commercial beekeeper to ever have a hive with no queen...in other words, the state wants us to ensure there is a queen in every colony from the outset. I don't know the reasoning behind that, though. I have to admit I'm kind of scared to just split and let nature take its course. But that may be the better option if I can't find the queen (a goal I have never accomplished).


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Jon Wolff said:


> Personally, I wouldn't try fixing it with brood and the queen in the midst of it. You will not only kill brood, you could kill the queen, too. I would place empty brood combs at the front end of the cross-combed brood and as the queen fills it with brood, repeat until the cross-combing has been moved to the rear of the hive. The queen won't like being so far from the entrance and will abandon it, at which point you can cut it out. That's what I did with one very badly cross-combed hive. However, my entrances are at one end, not in the middle of one side. Where are yours?


The plan you described is what I intend to do. Last year, I had 2 clumps of 3 crossed-comb sections. I'm now down to one, and it's in the middle of the brood nest. I will work at moving it. As for entrances, let's just say that my still-evolving carpentry skills resulted in the bees creating entrances all around the hive, at the bottom, on the south end, but on both the east and west-facing sides. Thus, the brood nest is now between combs of honey, starting at 1/4 from the "front" of the hive. However, the new hive was built more straightforwardly (no eco-floor, just a plain wooden bottom), with entrances on one end of the east-facing side of the hive (I'm not sure that made sense). Together with bars of straight comb, I should be able to get rid of the cross-combed section by the end of this season, moving it as you suggested.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

RayMarler said:


> msscha says...
> I would be fixing this comb problem before I tried to split the hive, if it was me.


Just a bit of the tugging I killed a half dozen brood cells. I chose not to continue, and instead take the longer route as described by Jon Wolff. All the rest of the bars except the very end one are straight and "easy" to work (insofar as I can get them out, inspect, flip vertically, all the things you're supposed to do with a top bar -- but man, those bees propolize the dickens out of everything!).


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

msscha said:


> I found out at our bee club meeting last week that it is officially illegal for a non-commercial beekeeper to ever have a hive with no queen...in other words, the state wants us to ensure there is a queen in every colony from the outset. I don't know the reasoning behind that, though. I have to admit I'm kind of scared to just split and let nature take its course. But that may be the better option if I can't find the queen (a goal I have never accomplished).


Florida is in AHB territory, which is probably why it's illegal to have a queenless hive. My guess is that they don't want queens open-mating and introducing AHB genetics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just that that is likely the reasoning behind the law.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

msscha said:


> I found out at our bee club meeting last week that it is officially illegal for a non-commercial beekeeper to ever have a hive with no queen...in other words, the state wants us to ensure there is a queen in every colony from the outset. I don't know the reasoning behind that, though. I have to admit I'm kind of scared to just split and let nature take its course. But that may be the better option if I can't find the queen (a goal I have never accomplished).


I don't think it's illegal, it's considered a best practice, which is a long way from actually being illegal. I do know they are starting to push for re-queening every year from a certified source.
It's not illegal to grow your own queens, but they consider it a best practice. What a racket, People growing certified queens lobby to force every bee keeper to re-queen every year from a certified source.... Don't get me started...


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## Bill_B (Aug 21, 2014)

msscha said:


> I found out at our bee club meeting last week that it is officially illegal for a non-commercial beekeeper to ever have a hive with no queen...





Robbin said:


> I don't think it's illegal, it's considered a best practice, which is a long way from actually being illegal.


If I understand the rules correctly, beekeepers in non-agricultural (e.g, residential) areas are required to comply with state best management practices as a condition of keeping hives there. It's different for bees kept on agricultural land.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

Do you have to split? No queen cells and six empty bars still gives you room to grow. You might want to rehive the colony into your new hive to better control what the bees consider an entrance, move the cross-combing to the rear and see how things go from there. Once the queen gives up the cross-combing to honey storage, you will be able to find her as well as cut out the bad combs. It would also give you an opportunity to fix up the old hive and close off the extra entrances. At that point it might still be possible to split and add a new queen into the old hive. In my situation, once I moved the cross-combing to the back, the queen had abandoned it by late spring and I was able to remove it.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Jon Wolff said:


> Personally, I wouldn't try fixing it with brood and the queen in the midst of it. You will not only kill brood, you could kill the queen, too. I would place empty brood combs at the front end of the cross-combed brood and as the queen fills it with brood, repeat until the cross-combing has been moved to the rear of the hive. The queen won't like being so far from the entrance and will abandon it, at which point you can cut it out. That's what I did with one very badly cross-combed hive. However, my entrances are at one end, not in the middle of one side. Where are yours?


Don't you think that this process you describe could be considered "fixing it"? I would fix the cross comb mess before splitting the hive, I did not elaborate on how to do so, as I did not see the problem to see how bad it was, and so gave no specific instructions on how to fix it.

As you said in post #11, there is not an urgency to split the hive now, it has room to grow into a better configuration for splitting, and over that time, the cross comb problem can be fixed, with just bar and comb management.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Bill_B said:


> If I understand the rules correctly, beekeepers in non-agricultural (e.g, residential) areas are required to comply with state best management practices as a condition of keeping hives there. It's different for bees kept on agricultural land.


Yes, that was the phrase our presenter used: "non-agricultural" land.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

*On Splitting*
The question of whether to split is an interesting one, and honestly, I find myself confused about the various recommendations. Yes, there are 6 empty bars at the back (one of which I added during the inspection), but the brood nest is very nearly filled with capped brood (some room still, especially in the drone comb closest to the back), and framed on both sides by full bars of honey. Doesn't that create conditions that prompt swarming (honey bound, little open space in brood nest)? Also, splitting is a less expensive way of creating more colonies than buying packages or nucs. With 11 bars of brood nest, splitting seems like a reasonable plan.

*On needing a Queen*
Though I'm not sure why commercial beekeepers wouldn't also have to be careful of an Africanized queen, I do see the logic of a best practices approach that minimizes the risk in residential areas. I believe we're just barely north of where AHBs are considered a bigger risk, and weather permitting, it's certainly something to think about.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

if you have to have a queen in at all times wait till you have the queen in hand before you split. then introduce her several hrs later in her cage. one half should stick to the cage like Velcro....this is the half with your queen.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

RayMarler, my bad. I assumed you meant something more invasive. Clearly, we were on the same wavelength.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes Jon Wolff, thank you, and sorry if I sounded over defensive. I agree with both of your first posts, it sounds like a very good way to go about cleaning up the remaining mess and doing the split.

I'm not in or near Florida, so maybe I'm off base with what I'm saying. Maybe making a split now is great, even with three bars being cross combed, but it just seems to me that getting that mess cleared up first would make making a split easier and more safe. It is probably fine to do splits there now, but seems like it would be fine to do it in a month from now also, with the amount of empty comb available still in that hive. And getting the cross comb cleared up first will help with finding the queen for making the split, and would make each split nice and clean and ready for easier management for the rest of the year.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

Ray, I appreciate it. I agree with your analysis as well.
Msscha, you don't see any queen cups, so unless there are some in the cross combing, the bees don't seem to think it's time to swarm. Put those extra bees to work by opening up the brood nest with a couple empty bars, just don't leave any brood combs isolated. Brood combs should always be in groups of at least two. That's the way to avoid them being honeybound. You can add a bar between a brood bar and a honey bar, too.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Jon and Ray: I am going to wait on splitting, though I may not wait until I see swarm cells. If I go ahead without them, I'll buy a local queen. I appreciate the advice on the cross-combing; actually, the hive is doing much better than it used to in this regard, and the bars on either side of the three-bar-comb are beautiful and straight. I'm curious as to how big the brood nest is supposed to be? My understanding is that the brood section tends to be about 10 bars wide (and I'm at 11). So, if I add bars, it would be for the purpose of pushing the cross-combed bars to honey storage, as you've both recommended. And I wouldn't do even that until it warms up a bit -- today, we've got highs in the mid 60s, but we'll be down into the 20s at night this weekend. We get lots of variation, but it is typical to split here between mid-Feb and mid-March, and even then, there's no guarantee swarming will be stopped. Thanks much for your input!


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

You're welcome. Best of luck!


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## Eric Crosby (Jan 4, 2015)

I agree with what Jon and Ray have advised. Have you considered removing some of that honey to create more room? It does sound like the population of your colony will be doubling or tripling in the next couple of weeks, and with all those drones hatching out things start to get exciting. I like to drawn mine out as far as possible before splitting, which means 18-20 bars, but I have old comb. I like Jons suggestions of placing them all in your new hive, and fixing the older one. There are many ways to deal with your cross combing making framed bars is my preferred method and elastic in the good parts of the cross comb.


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