# How far can the comb go?



## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

Send a message to beesource member Cleo Hogan, he's really good at ideas and inventions for cut outs.


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## Jcarlton (Jun 22, 2014)

Sounds like trap out might be better for you and your clients and Cleo can definitely help you with info on trap-out. Good luck 3-4 years worth of comb and colony building may be a huge hive.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Go through the roof and remove them. The repair is easy IF you are careful with the removal of materials.
I say this becuase the size of the hive will be bigger than you think. I hive that has been established for three years will be the same size (if not bigger) than two deeps and two mediums.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I did one like that with a cedar shake roof. They went to the top of the ridge board. Due to the lay of the land. I removed them through the roof. A 40' Valley of the end of the roof but a porch that was on the side and a 8' ladder to get to the roof. I don't find trap out Financially rewarding for the amount of time that it eats up. It has been a great side Business for my painting company. I know of one other contractor on BS. That is here. 
David


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## Kiddkop (Sep 18, 2014)

Jcarlton said:


> Sounds like trap out might be better for you and your clients and Cleo can definitely help you with info on trap-out. Good luck 3-4 years worth of comb and colony building may be a huge hive.


Problem with a trap out in a residence (IMO) is that you get rid of the bees eventually, but the honey and hive stays behind with dead brood. This has a tendency to invite other pest such as roaches or mice. I am not a fan of trap outs in a house. Sometimes a brick column, maybe.

In my yr or so of doing cut outs....I have not seen the hives get too huge. I completed my 1st cut out of the year a few days ago. The owner says the bees had been there 3 yrs. the hive was under trailer between the floor joist which were 18 in centers. THe hive was still only about 4 foot. Point in all this, you will probably be safe going from the closet, if you know precisely where the hive is at. I personally would pass on a job before I went through the roof. You will forever be tied to the house, any problems or leaks that occur will be blamed on the bee removal.

Funny reading all the different replies....everyone of us has a different opinion. Kind of like when I ask a bee question at the monthly meeting...every old timer tells me something different. Gotta love beekeeping!


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

Kiddkop said:


> Point in all this, you will probably be safe going from the closet, if you know precisely where the hive is at.


Thanks for the replies.

Is there a way to tell precisely where the hive is at without pulling things apart? 

I'm not worried about the repairs, it's what i do. I just want to be efficient. IE: I would hate to cut out the block, then the ceiling, and end up having to cut the roof too.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

larryh said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> Is there a way to tell precisely where the hive is at without pulling things apart?
> 
> I'm not worried about the repairs, it's what i do. I just want to be efficient. IE: I would hate to cut out the block, then the ceiling, and end up having to cut the roof too.


Not precisely, but an infrared thermal camera will give you an idea of the size of the hive and a location of where the hive is. Just because they are entering and exiting an area doesn't tell you where the comb/hive is. Running the camera along the area where you think it is, and where you think it is not, will tell you where it is


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

http://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/thermo-tech-non-contact-infrared-digital-thermometer-w-free-holster-58-to-1022-f?CAWELAID=1191793593&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiAyMCnBRDa0Pyex-qswB0SJADKNMKA_v-c-P2DSyZvDUjVG9LAVKPPy6F_2LuLXY1O5aInrxoC4bLw_wcB

Every contractor should have one of these in their arsenal. This will pinpoint the brood nest.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Mr.Beeman said:


> http://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/thermo-tech-non-contact-infrared-digital-thermometer-w-free-holster-58-to-1022-f?CAWELAID=1191793593&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiAyMCnBRDa0Pyex-qswB0SJADKNMKA_v-c-P2DSyZvDUjVG9LAVKPPy6F_2LuLXY1O5aInrxoC4bLw_wcB
> 
> Every contractor should have one of these in their arsenal. This will pinpoint the brood nest.


Agreed, but if you can have, borrow, or rent an infrared thermal camera (Flir's are nice) for your arsenal, I find them even more beneficial. Most have a rainbow hue feature that pinpoints colonies within structures in minutes. In addition, they are nice in Winter to check on your cluster size/location in hive bodies.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

I may see if I can rent a thermal image camera, but I don't think I'll be buying one anytime soon. 

One more thing is this roof has about 9-10" worth of fiberglass insulation and a 2" air space above that which, since the bees are going into that vent space, I imagine is where the hive is.

What do the bees do with insulation, do they remove it? Compress it? Build around it? I imagine this could have a big affect on how far up the roof it goes.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

larryh said:


> I may see if I can rent a thermal image camera, but I don't think I'll be buying one anytime soon.
> 
> One more thing is this roof has about 9-10" worth of fiberglass insulation and a 2" air space above that which, since the bees are going into that vent space, I imagine is where the hive is.
> 
> What do the bees do with insulation, do they remove it? Compress it? Build around it? I imagine this could have a big affect on how far up the roof it goes.


My typical experience is that they build in voids in the insulation & around it (if it's there). I have never seen honey bees compress, chew/eat, or remove insulation. However, I have seen yellow jackets eat away at hard foam insulation around the exterior of hot tubs to enlarge their nests. 
Hard for me to visually see how the eave vent block entrance/exit is in relation to the overall structure to completely understand the situation, but is there an attic space that can be checked out? Don't be confident that they are in the roof! Depending on the structure & voids, they may have decided to run down the wall? Check your local Home Depot to rent a FLIR 7, & save some guess work, repair work, time, & money


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

larryh said:


> The bees are going in through an eave vent block. The house has a steep roof with 2x12 rafters, and a cathedral ceiling, so they will be confined to that one rafter bay.
> My question is how far up into that bay do you think the comb will go? The owners say the bees have been there for 3-4 years. I saw them last spring and there were a LOT of bees. They looked quite busy yesterday too.
> 
> If the comb was all within the first foot or so I could just remove the block and reach them . Due to the short overhang, I can't get my head and arms up in there. I could only reach a foot.
> ...


Last one I did that was in a cavity as you are describing went way further up than I could reach. You have to remember that sometimes they will build at the firestop and build down. So they could be far up in the cavity. However, as someone else mentioned, they seldom remove/eat insulation. SO assuming the contractor that built the house put insulation between the ceiling and the roof that starts at the wall line, they may be constrained. But it is likely that they are going way up in the cavity, and don't be so sure they are not in multiple cavities. Holes drilled for wiring, poor framing joints, etc can allow enough access to fill adjacent cavities.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

Great info. I hadn't considered them starting at the top. Or them moving into an adjacent bay through a wiring hole..
Will look into the Flir 7.
On tbe bright side, I don't have to guess too much how the house was put together, because I was one of the guys that built it.
Thanks for the help!


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