# Question about buying "RAW" Honey and "Real Bee Pollen" ..



## mcthomas (Jan 13, 2015)

I was reading about the health benefits of Honey and Pollen.. 
I drove 45 minutes to buy a case of 12 quarts (RAW, UNFILTERED, UNHEATED HONEY), plus two quart ziplocks (1 lb each) of bee pollen.

It was dark when I got there, and raining, so, the box was loaded for me, and I didn't get a chance to look at it until I got home..
I was shocked/surprised.. 

I expected to see some pollen, etc in the honey, but, I don't see a single particle of any size or type. 
It seems like it would take quite a filter, or quite a bit of heat to get a thick honey, through a filter to strip out a pollen to get honey that clean,, or,, maybe not???
Maybe the bees are much cleaner than that?? Maybe you can't see the pollen, or there is not that much pollen in the honey to begin with?

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TYPE OF FILTERS USED WHEN Extracting/bottling Honey.
Would someone comment on what #'s of filters they use when straining honey, and if it is a very fine filter, why, if you advertise "RAW" honey, do you go so fine?
Is the, or at what size filter is the pollen pulled out of the honey. Is it a screen filter, or a cloth filter?
At what size filter do you filter most particles, but, leave most of the pollen, and does it make cloudy honey or some sort of look that is not acceptable for an average buyer?
I have seen filters with a quick search calling for #200, #400, #600.. Obviously, I could not tell anything about the size from the Internet description.. 


The Pollen... The bag of "Bee Pollen" is not at all what I expected..
These appeared to be some sort of seeds.. When I looked it up, it said, "typically Male seeds from the flowers". 
I have seen pictures and videos of bees coming back to the hives. Some of the covered with Pollen dust.. 
When I read about the benefits of "Bee Pollen", I figured I would be buying a bag of "Gold Dust" basically.. 
Also saw some "Pollen Collectors for the hives".. I can see how it would flip these seeds off of the bees, but, it also seems that the Pollen Dust would get raked off of the bees also.. 
But, there was little to no dust in the bottom of my bags.. 

So.. What does a Bee Keeper do with the "Pollen Dust" that the bees bring in.. Of Course, I am still assuming the pollen collector collects this dust.. 
If it is possible to get my hands on this,, this is what I would think would be the biggest heath benefit item between the two.. 
Anyone care to comment on the collection of, and whether or not there is a beneficial benefit between the seeds and dust? 

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RAW HONEY.. 
I read another post about temperatures, etc.. I understand the value of heating the honey to some point to be able to get it to move, etc.. 
That temp ran between 110 to 160 degrees... 
I can understand production honey, and having to do what you have to do, but, if I only do this for myself, I am interested in the most natural form the honey can be.. 
There are obviously enzymes from the bees, and I'm sure other things that are at least at some point, heat sensitive.. IE.. overheating would destroy them.

I would think the honey would not get above 90 to 110 degrees while still in the hive being administered by the bees.. Would that be a reasonable assumption?
Is there a generally accepted temperature to avoid topping, if someone is interested in staying under this temperature?



Thanks.
Mark T..


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't heat my extracted honey at all and let it run through a deep fryer strainer screen. It comes out clear, not cloudy and no visible particles in it. It would be considered unheated raw filtered honey. The amount of pollen in raw honey is microscopic and you would not be able to see it with the naked eye.

By the time a bee gets to the hive with it's pollen load, it is packed tightly into little carrying baskets on it's hind legs. There is no dust, the bee has groomed it all off itself and packed it tightly into it's leg baskets. The pollen gets scraped off the bees as they are forced to go through a screen to enter the hive, and it falls into a collection tray that the bee keeper then empties. It looks like little round balls, there is no dust. I guess you could say it looks like little round colored seeds.

I would say that what you have is most likely what it was advertised to be. Bee keepers are a pretty honest bunch for the most part.


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

At our bee club we always have a talk about how to show your honey at the state fair. The honey in glass jars looks like it's perfectly clear until you put the bottle in the light box the judges use. Then you see the honey suspended in the clear honey. To win here you need to filter that all out. That doesn't sound like winning to me.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Why would you buy something without looking at it? So what if it was dark? The time to ask these questions was when you were in front of the person selling what you bought. I don't get it.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

From your description it sounds like what you got was actually raw unfiltered honey, and a bag of bee-collected pollen. Enjoy.

But just in case you also didn't know this - you probably should keep the pollen in a freezer until you are ready to use it. It is subject to mold otherwise.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I only strain my honey through a pasta sieve and you don't normally see any particles floating in that honey. Most beekeepers use a much finer sieve. As for the pollen, once the bees collect the "gold dust", they pack it into their pollen baskets while mixing it with enzymes so they form little balls or pellets. The pollen traps brush these pellets off their legs as they return to the hive. Here is a picture of what I collected last fall. I'm sure yours looks very similar. And if the honey crystalizes right away, you can be sure it's raw and unfiltered


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I expected to see some pollen, etc in the honey, but, I don't see a single particle of any size or type. 

It's usually at the top and you have to look close to see it.

>It seems like it would take quite a filter, or quite a bit of heat to get a thick honey, through a filter to strip out a pollen to get honey that clean,, or,, maybe not???

Most of the "store" honey has had all the pollen filtered out so it won't crystallize as quickly.

>Maybe the bees are much cleaner than that?? 

The bees can filter pollen from honey and usually do, so there is not much pollen in the honey.

>Maybe you can't see the pollen, or there is not that much pollen in the honey to begin with?

Not much to begin with.

>Would someone comment on what #'s of filters they use when straining honey, and if it is a very fine filter, why, if you advertise "RAW" honey, do you go so fine?

Mine is pretty coarse... I just want to get the bee parts out, so I just use stainless steel screen.

>The Pollen... The bag of "Bee Pollen" is not at all what I expected..
>These appeared to be some sort of seeds.. When I looked it up, it said, "typically Male seeds from the flowers". 

The bee pollen you buy is in the form that the bees bring back from the flowers. The bees land on the flower and the static charge tends to make the pollen stick to them. The may roll around in it as well. Then they comb it off and mix it with their saliva (some nectar) until it forms a little pellet. This they pack into their pollen basket on their leg. They carry it back to the hive. A pollen trap causes the little pellet to pop off and fall into a drawer. This is what you are getting. Not seeds. No longer dust (although it was before it was formed into a pellet).

>I have seen pictures and videos of bees coming back to the hives. Some of the covered with Pollen dust.. 

That's just what they didn't get combed off and pelletized.

>So.. What does a Bee Keeper do with the "Pollen Dust" that the bees bring in.. Of Course, I am still assuming the pollen collector collects this dust.. 

No. It collects the pellets of "glued" together dust.

>I read another post about temperatures, etc.. I understand the value of heating the honey to some point to be able to get it to move, etc.. That temp ran between 110 to 160 degrees... I can understand production honey, and having to do what you have to do, but, if I only do this for myself, I am interested in the most natural form the honey can be.. 
There are obviously enzymes from the bees, and I'm sure other things that are at least at some point, heat sensitive.. IE.. overheating would destroy them.

Yes.

>I would think the honey would not get above 90 to 110 degrees while still in the hive being administered by the bees.. Would that be a reasonable assumption?

The typical temperatures in a hive are 93 F. On a hot day it can exceed that in the supers, but cannot exceed that in the brood nest or the brood will die. If it gets to be 110 F in the supers the combs will start to collapse because the wax gets too soft.

>Is there a generally accepted temperature to avoid topping, if someone is interested in staying under this temperature?

There is no official number. There is no consensus on a number.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

Pollen in honey is minimal, the bees filter out most of it. Pollen is pretty small, the biggest structures run around 250 microns (and that's wind blown = not collected bees). You can screen (or "filter") down to 200 micron (that's #200) and have no real effect on the pollen levels. Screening will remove bee legs, wings, the occasional spinter from a frame, etc.

The pollen dust is packed into little pellets by the bees. A pollen collector (at least all of them I have) has a screened bottom and any "dust" that was brushed off would fall through. THe pellets you got are typical (as previously stated, it should likely be kept in a freezer).

You should not be "shocked/surprised", what you describe is the generally accepted product.


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## Fishman43 (Sep 26, 2011)

ruthiesbees said:


> ...And if the honey crystalizes right away, you can be sure it's raw and unfiltered...


Although not a true indication in its own right, I have some hold back 2012 honey that is just now starting to crystalize. Never heated, and only screened through a stainless steel "pasta sieve".


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