# Mite Treatment



## MikeTheBeekeeper (May 18, 2011)

Two questions: 

1. When do you treat, and how do you know when to treat?

2. How do you treat for mites (some product [hopguard, checkmite, etc.], drone frame removal, fogging, etc.), and does it do the job?


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

@Mike - you have asked one of the most debated questions that has ever appeared on BeeSource. So if you get many answers be prepared for a wide range of opinions!

My answer: after testing to see that treatments were called for I this past season used Mite Away Quick Strips, sometimes called MAQS, with results that I was happy with. In the past I have used Apiguard and been happy with that. I try to rotate my miticides so that the mites don't have the chance to establish resistance to any one miticide. To know if your treatment worked you really need to do a follow up test to know how your mite infection rate changed. The choice of what miticide is good for a particular area depends on things like temperature and regional custom. Some miticides can not be used on a hive when supers are on.

Long term it is my hope (and belief) that bees will develop the ability to coexist with mites without treatments. I have some bees that I do not treat now - I will see what is left when the snow melts!

See scientificbeekeeping.org for good discussion of the different mite treatments and their effectiveness.


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## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

Andrew Dewey said:


> To know if your treatment worked you really need to do a follow up test to know how your mite infection rate changed.


Oh how true it is!


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## Bdeaner (May 26, 2011)

Andrew Dewey said:


> used Mite Away Quick Strips, sometimes called MAQS, with results that I was happy with.


Andrew, I understand Mite away is weather dependent. What time of year do you plan on treating? 

Here in south central PA we often have a late summer dearth and a finicky fall flow. We try to supplemental feed to stimulate brood rearing of winter bees. 

How does the Mite Away affect the brood rearing? Aren't most mite treatments most effective when in a brood less period? 

How does everyone balance brood rearing and using mite treatments that may damage brood?


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

MAQS has a short time on the hive (I think it is 7 days off the top of my head) and it does most of its work in the first three days. This past year I treated after harvesting honey Labor Day weekend. My goal this year is to treat earlier - in the July dearth if temperatures allow. With a follow up sample of a couple of hives in September to see where mite levels are. MAQS is reported to kill mites inside of capped cells. You are correct - many mite treatments do not reach mites behind cell cappings which is one reason they often have a longer treatment period and/or require multiple treatments.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Well with this going to be my 5 spring coming up I can't say much for I only started treating this past spring and what I did was this .
spring of 2013 I started treating with fogging with FGMO buy mid. JULY i realized it was not working{did alcohol washes on all my hives {25} I had high mite loads all through my bee yards so i treated with OAV and boy did i get high mite drops i bet by OCT. i had well over 10000 drop just crazy amounts of dead VARRO . Now i didn't want to mess with the hive going in to winter to much so i didn't do mite test after the treatments but i treated 5 times and all 25 hives are still alive and it's been a long cold winter so far . So i am sticking with OAV for the mean time.
Just saying worked for me.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Apivar and Apigaurd both work good. Apivar in the fall and Apigaurd in the early summer right after pulling honey. Here in the South it is really hard to find a good time to use Maqs it is really hard on the queens and brood at the upper temp range. Here in North Florida we only have two temps hot or cold. We have very few days where day time highs are only in the 70s-80s which is as high I feel comfortable using the Maqs at.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

When do I treat?
I don't.

I haven't for several years.
Many of my queens came from known or probable feral colonies -- from colonies that had been unmanaged/untreated for some years before collection.

I figured if they lasted a number of years untreated before I got them, they likely didn't need it.
So far I haven't been sorry.

I bought queens from a commercial producer who uses standard treatments last year, and those ones haven't done well without treating.
2/3 of those died.
We'll see how the remaining third fair over the next couple years.


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## MikeTheBeekeeper (May 18, 2011)

Where can I find information on treating with OAV? I've looked around but haven't found anything that explains the whole process.

I was thinking of fogging w/ mineral oil because I was told about the method by a very large commercial beekeeper who said he treats his bees w/ that and it works just fine and is really inexpensive. But from what I gather fogging w/ FGMO is rather ineffective.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Before investing in fogging equipment, this is a good thread to read:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?283157-Started-fogging-today&highlight=fogging


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## MikeTheBeekeeper (May 18, 2011)

Beregondo, I've actually been TF for all my 4 or so years with bees and the results are not good at all. I have only 1 hive that has survived longer than 2 years, the rest are all 1 year old splits or swarms I caught. 

Maybe also because I never requeened, but I think the high losses are because of not treating. I've had several strong hives (20 frames of bees) go into winter and collapse within a month (with more than enough stores). Don't know the reason for sure but I think its because of mites. For me, trying to run a small commercial (sideliner?) operation while TF doesn't work.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

I've been researching OAV for the past few weeks. I decided to be treatment free primarily becasue i didn't want to spend the money on treating. I also don't care for the idea of treating and not killing all the mites, whcih seems like it could result in treatment resistant mites. While I"m no expert in OAV, what i have determined is that OAV seems to be rather effective, incredibly cheap after the inital equipment purchase/fabrication, and rather easy to do. Furthermore, it has little to no negative effect on the bees, but as Michael Bush points out, it can impact the Ph of the hive, which can be considered bad. With little experience, it seems to me that a deadout is worse than a shift in Ph.

So, I have scrounged up all the necessary components to make an OAV vaporizer. I plan to document my efforts in making the device in an effort to give back to the community that has given me lots of information regarding how to make the rest of my gear. I expect that I'll have about $40 bucks into making the device when it's all said and done.

The process of treating with OAV is rather simple. Add required amount of OA to the device, shove it into the hive entrance, plug the remainder of the antrance with a rag, or foam, turn it on for the required amount of time (varies by device, but about a minute or so), remove device and leave hive plugged for about 10 minutes while you work on the next hive/hives.

This process is repeated once a week for three weeks in an effort to kill any mites that are protected from the OAV in sealed brood cells.

Others may correct me on the procedure, but thats my understanding.

Vendors seem to sell OAV vaporizers for about $150, so if it saves even one hive from collapse, it seems worthwhile to buy into it. I'm a cheapskate and a tinkerer, so for me, it makes sense to make a unit. Most units use a car battery to power them. I don't want to carry around a car battery, so i will make mine with connections to hook up to a 12V power outlet on tractor, for-wheeler, or something of that nature. 

i found my OA (99.6% pure) on ebay and acquired 2# for something like $10. Assuming 2grams of Oa per hive treatment, that is enough for 453 treatments. At $0.03 per treatment, i can't imagine a better value in killing the mites.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Andrew Dewey said:


> To know if your treatment worked you really need to do a follow up test to know how your mite infection rate changed.


I wont join in the debate of wether or not to treat, and / or how to treat. But I will expand a bit on this, from our experience, and lessons learned in our first year.

In our first year, we were debating wether or not to put any treatments in our hives. I did a 24 hour sticky board test, one of them came up with zero mites, the other came up with one mite. By every standard we had read at the time, that's a low level of infestation, and, doesn't need to be treated. Well, we decided eventually to do it anyways, just to be safe. The rationale was, if the dog came into the house with one flea, we would certainly do something about that, so, one mite is probably just an indication of more mites, we wanted to find out how many more.

I put thymol strips into the hives, then put the cleaned sticky boards back in. Left them for 24 hours, then pulled them out to try count mites. On the first one, the hive that had a single mite in the first check, I lost count of the dead mites on the sticky board, and the count was well north of a thousand when I lost count. I didn't even bother trying to count from the second hive, it was littered with dead mites, from the hive that had none fall in a 24 hour check just a couple days earlier.

I have taken two lessons from that experience. First is, no mites on a 24 hour sticky board check does NOT mean no mites in the hive. It means, those mites in the hive are healthy and strong, so not falling down to get caught on the sticky. The second lesson I took from that experience, if you want to count mites, you need to make sure you are counting mites. Roll them in the alchohol, sacrifice a cup of bees to do it right. If you aren't going to do it right, then you are just counting the weak mites that fall off, and not counting total mite population. That applies to the passive sticky test, and applies equally to less aggressive methods like sugar dusting etc.

If you are going to count mites, do it right, or dont bother. Half measures will give you bad information, which is worse than no information at all. Had I left those hives in our first year, that gave very low counts on a sticky board test, I'm quite sure we would have ended up in the spring, with two dead hives, and asking why ???


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

MikeTheBeekeeper said:


> Where can I find information on treating with OAV? I've looked around but haven't found anything that explains the whole process.


Try Oxavap.com. That site has links to many sites that offer information.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

MikeTheBeekeeper said:


> Where can I find information on treating with OAV? I've looked around but haven't found anything that explains the whole process.
> 
> I was thinking of fogging w/ mineral oil because I was told about the method by a very large commercial beekeeper who said he treats his bees w/ that and it works just fine and is really inexpensive. But from what I gather fogging w/ FGMO is rather ineffective.


If I was you I would not waste your time and money on fogging with FGMO it don't work at all the link shinbone posted will explain . Now OAV seems to have worked for me but I don't want to say it's great or any thing to that nature but I treated with OAV in fall and I have not lost any hive yet and I had heavy mite loads . If you have any questions that I can help with just PM me remember I only treat 5 times with OAV so I will only know so much.
Good luck.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.bushfarms.beesvarroatreatments.htm

If you look at this simplistic model of Varroa populations and treatments (not based on any particular treatment, but rather on the % effectiveness of any treatment) you can see that even a treatment that is 100% while there is capped brood in the hive, is very ineffective. Only when the hive is broodless is any treatment very effective. Treatments like powdered sugar and FGMO which are typically used throughout the year (mostly because you can't use most treatments when supers are on...) are only keeping things at the status quo and then, only if you do them every week. Something like OA vapor might leave residue that would last a week and therefore get a few more as they emerge, but whatever treatment you use (assuming you treat, and I don't treat) it will never be very effective when there is capped brood.

I guess I may as well address the original question, since I'm posting:

>1. When do you treat

Never.

> and how do you know when to treat?

I don't.

>2. How do you treat for mites (some product [hopguard, checkmite, etc.]

I don't.

> drone frame removal, fogging, etc.), and does it do the job? 

Small cell has done the job. I've never done the drone removal (I don't want to select for mites that prefer workers), FGMO did fine if done every week all through the year and continuing until it's been done for three weeks with no brood in the hive, but I have concerns about the wax getting soft and explosions that blow the lid off are a bit frightening... Oxalic acid vapor certainly killed mites, but I'm concerned about the effects on the microbes. Fluvalinate did not work at all. I think it increased the mites. Most of the people I know using Cumaphos have lost all their bees. I have not used formic or thymol, but my concern about both is not only the microbes, but that the dosage is so variable depending on the ambient temperature. That and it drives all the bees out of the hives...


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

KPeacock said:


> This process is repeated once a week for three weeks in an effort to kill any mites that are protected from the OAV in sealed brood cells.
> 
> Others may correct me on the procedure, but thats my understanding.


 The treatments seven days apart works okay, but i found that treating three times, five days apart, is more effective, kills more mites.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

When it comes to OAV I say do a alcohol wash come early spring {no honey supers} and if you have high mite counts treat then test again in the fall and treat as needed .
I also give all my hives a brood break right at my flows peak. That's my plan for this coming year I may fog with some e.oils on a couple hives just to see. What ever I do I may start a thread come spring.


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

MikeTheBeekeeper said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. When do you treat, and how do you know when to treat?
> 
> 2. How do you treat for mites (some product [hopguard, checkmite, etc.], drone frame removal, fogging, etc.), and does it do the job?


Answer #1 = Never

Answer #2 = the only thing I do to help with mites is I either let the hives swarm, or I artificially cause brood breaks. So far I think it's working!


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

MikeTheBeekeeper said:


> Where can I find information on treating with OAV? I've looked around but haven't found anything that explains the whole process.
> 
> I was thinking of fogging w/ mineral oil because I was told about the method by a very large commercial beekeeper who said he treats his bees w/ that and it works just fine and is really inexpensive. But from what I gather fogging w/ FGMO is rather ineffective.


If you have not already done so, do some reading at Randy Olover's site, http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com. There is a ton of information on there, so plan on spending some time, but you will get a LOT of answers.

HTH

Rusty


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## ramdino (Jan 26, 2013)

Be careful with MAQS. I used two per directions but got hit by unusual high temps. If you use them over 85? they are two harsh. I think they are to harsh with 2 strips any way. I killed my queen from that colony that was a very strong colony. The day after I treated I came back and had about 1000 dead bees outside the hive. I like MAQS because it can be used with honey supers and is a once in once out product but I may do sugar shakes next year first to make sure I need them.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

I've had it suggested to use only one pad per treatment .


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## MikeTheBeekeeper (May 18, 2011)

Thank you all for the input.

I'm considering treating w/ OAV. I already have a fogger but don't think I'll be using it for mites based on other peoples' experience with fogging.



Michael Bush said:


> Small cell has done the job.


Most of my brood frames are foundationless, a few with foundation (not small cell), and the rest plastic frames from Mann Lake which are small cell.

I had trouble having them build the small cell frames (despite feeding heavily), only a few of my strongest colonies managed to build them. Even if I placed one in the middle of the brood chamber (which I did with one hive) they wouldn't build. 

I thought maybe because it's plastic, bees may prefer wood? But now I think it's probably because they had large(r) cells and weren't used to the small cell, so maybe that's why they didn't build? 

I'm trying to get all my hives on small cell but I'm not sure that alone will keep them from collapsing next fall/winter.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

grozzie2 said:


> I have taken two lessons from that experience. First is, no mites on a 24 hour sticky board check does NOT mean no mites in the hive. It means, those mites in the hive are healthy and strong, so not falling down to get caught on the sticky. The second lesson I took from that experience, if you want to count mites, you need to make sure you are counting mites. Roll them in the alchohol, sacrifice a cup of bees to do it right. If you aren't going to do it right, then you are just counting the weak mites that fall off, and not counting total mite population. That applies to the passive sticky test, and applies equally to less aggressive methods like sugar dusting etc.
> 
> If you are going to count mites, do it right, or don't bother. Half measures will give you bad information, which is worse than no information at all.


Amen!


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

grozzie2 said:


> If you are going to count mites, do it right, or dont bother. Half measures will give you bad information, which is worse than no information at all. Had I left those hives in our first year, that gave very low counts on a sticky board test, I'm quite sure we would have ended up in the spring, with two dead hives, and asking why ???


Alcohol washes are your best test buy the time sticky boards are showing high mite drops it maybe to late to help.
Just saying been there done that.
Live and learn . Alcohol washes and OAV you'll have bees in the spring.


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