# sept 1st



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Hope all you guys have the honey off and the bees treated, it's time for fall feeding and the last couple of brood rounds before winter are critical, how we put them to bed is how we wake them up in Jan. Good luck to all this fall.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Totally agree Keith. Remember also to complete those mite treatments. Pick your choice of treatments, but do treat if needed.


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

snl said:


> Remember also to complete those mite treatments.


Well said SNL, The number ONE reason why bees don't winter well..... MITES....


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Well said SNL, The number ONE reason why bees don't winter well..... MITES....


:thumbsup:


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Winter? We still have one more honey crop left to chase.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Trevor Mansell said:


> Winter? We still have one more honey crop left to chase.


Yeah we are getting ready to put honey supers back on. Fall flow can be awesome!


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Same here.At least one more harvest,possibly two if the goldenrod cooperates.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Perhaps feeding on fall flowers!! No syrup for my girls, atleast not yet. Goldenrod and fall flow is going to be killer for us this year. We just recieved 3 inches of rain, the plants are looking beatiful. I am expecting a very good harvest, overall a very good year for me in Louisville, the mild summer kept the queen laying and populations very large. 

No treatments for me!


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> No treatments for me!


Do a mite count. Booming hives also often have a booming mite population.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

burns375 said:


> No treatments for me!


Well Hallelujah!!

No treatments for me eather, all year so far!

As for the bees, we had Apivar installed by August 9th.
Not sure just how the late summer weather / fall weather will cooperate with our timing model, but would like to pull the strips with the last feeding.
It will be interesting to sample hives later on and determine if oxalic will be in order this year.
All in all, Oregon beekeepers are very happy with the condition of the bees at this time.
This is not the time to be cheap and cut corners.
All of the good work happens RIGHT NOW! Well, most of it anyway.
By the way, I purchaced bulk pollen sub from a certain company  and there was a light layer of mold all over.
Have you ever had that happen? If so, were you concerned?


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

camero7 said:


> Do a mite count. Booming hives also often have a booming mite population.


I'll pass. I have no intention of putting chemicals on the hives, so why bother. If they die so be it Ill replace them next year with splits from survivors. If everything dies then its not meant to be.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Well Hallelujah!!


Hey thanks buddy!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

HarryVanderpool said:


> By the way, I purchaced bulk pollen sub from a certain company  and there was a light layer of mold all over.
> Have you ever had that happen? If so, were you concerned?


Never have had that happen to me. Maybe Harry, get a hold of Vince or Bill above you and try some of that nutra bee.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

burns375 said:


> I'll pass. I have no intention of putting chemicals on the hives, so why bother. If they die so be it Ill replace them next year with splits from survivors. If everything dies then its not meant to be.


Fill them up w/ Nutra-Bee first anyway.


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## Bee Geek (May 4, 2013)

Beetle Traps installed, check.
Apivar in place, check.
Start feeding just after this Fall flow...
G2G (Good to Go!)


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

I learned long ago that commercial beekeeping is about turning a profit... the bigger the better. Burns375 if you let any bees die because of mites let it be on 10 percent or less of you whole bee outfit. Keep them isolated and breed off of your survivors. If you treat now you will have a great hive come out of winter. That equals a nice pollination check from the almond growers. Then lots of surplus bees for bee sales. Splits, bulk bees, frames of brood, an increase in your own hive numbers, and or stronger hives for that summers honey flow thus a potentially larger crop. Your business model is clouded by your desire to keep chemicals out of your hives, but in reality they gather from plants that are sprayed with ag chemicals or plants that are seed treated thus your hives already have chemicals in them.


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## MNbees (May 27, 2013)

Well now Sept 1st is very different from year to year. And this year some bees think its July !! Was not counting on it but some yards made a 2nd crop this Aug. 
Also bees are night and day different from last year at this exact time.
Bees in general are mite free and healthy as could bee.
I say that is due to ample moisture and late spring.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Did my first application of OAV on August 31, will do another one on September 6th and the last one on September 13th. I put pollen sub on Sept 2nd as hives are heavy but pollen is getting scarce. Lots of capped brood and eggs in the few hives I checked and good populations!

Although an alfalfa flow is starting I am feeding the smaller splits still to keep them going. Will pull the honey supers in about 2 weeks and then let them have the last bloom next month to store for winter, as it stands, the second deeps are packed right now and they are putting it away in the supers.

Looking forward to the last honey harvest and pollination in the spring!! Hope everyone has a good survival rate!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Am in the middle of treating. Sheesh!!!! The bees are still quite optimistic. Loads of brood and plenty of drone cells. You'd think it was April.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Man, nice to hear some honey being made late in the year, shoot where I live I'm surprizes any time it happens. 

Also interesting about most of you talking about the low mite counts, sure which we had a better handle on why that is, anyhow good luck to all.


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

choice and timing of treatments probably a big factor in that. and it all ties into a long winter and late spring i think.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Trevor Mansell said:


> Winter? We still have one more honey crop left to chase.


Same here.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

babybee said:


> If you treat now you will have a great hive come out of winter. That equals a nice pollination check from the almond growers. Then lots of surplus bees for bee sales. Splits, bulk bees, frames of brood, an increase in your own hive numbers, and or stronger hives for that summers honey flow thus a potentially larger crop. Your business model is clouded by your desire to keep chemicals out of your hives, but in reality they gather from plants that are sprayed with ag chemicals or plants that are seed treated thus your hives already have chemicals in them.


So let's add some more chemicals and try to control mites, and put the ladies to bed for winter :scratch:


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Fortunately for us mite levels seem to be fairly low for this time of year. We should be 2 weeks into our late summer thymol program but high temps have put treatments on hold plus the boss has been playing hooky. Time will tell what this all means I guess.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> So let's add some more chemicals and try to control mites, and put the ladies to bed for winter ?


Yes.
That is what works, year after year.
All other discussion is purely theoretical.
Almond growers don't rent theory.
They rent strong, healthy, RELIABLE bees and pollination services.
That is exactly what they can expect when beekeepers DO THEIR JOB!


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Very well said Harry!!


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> So let's add some more chemicals and try to control mites, and put the ladies to bed for winter :scratch:


So, may I ask what your plan is for getting mite infested bees through the winter?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Even us crazy people want to know....

Crazy Roland


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

HEY budy --yes this is a seriuors money deal -shipment looks great 
Thanks for all you do--RDY-B


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jmgi said:


> So, may I ask what your plan is for getting mite infested bees through the winter?


Make nucs out of all of the hives one has w/ new queens and having twice as many nucs as one does hives you aught to end up w/ the same number if not more come Spring and then let them grow.

That's not my plan, but it MIGHT work. It's sorta what some folks do w/ potentially more winterkill I would guess.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I am using Thymovar this year , I have my honey all off and I will also be doing an OAV later on towards fall . I have lots of pollen stores in most hives . what do you all consider an ample supply 2 frames 3 frames ? (Deeps of course) 
Also do any of you use Formic , if so when are you doing it ?
I can't get nutra bee here in NS , I will be using Bee pro Ultra instead , I would have bought nutra bee if I could have found it . unless someone knows a secret place to buy it in canada ?


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

jmgi said:


> So, may I ask what your plan is for getting mite infested bees through the winter?


The majority of my hives are managing mites on their own, and any hive that I am really concerned about managing them over winter will receive a grease patty. Vanderpool, No theory here, this is what works for me and my operation, and my winter lost has been around ten percent. However, there is room for improvement, I would like to get that number down to zero  I know I am doing my job, and very well if I say so myself! Does doing your job involve something else?


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

grease patty for mites??? Seems someone is not on the same page...... I think Keith's point was whatever your methods, time to pull that honey and start winter preps. which for most of us is spot on.....

Fields, Your not doing squat... letting your bees manage their own is not beekeeping... its behaveing and luck... no worries if that's your choice, more power to you, but don't dulude yourself into thinking your magic.....


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

gmcharlie said:


> grease patty for mites??? Seems someone is not on the same page......
> 
> Fields, Your not doing squat... letting your bees manage their own is not beekeeping... its behaveing and luck... no worries if that's your choice, more power to you, but don't dulude yourself into thinking your magic.....


Yes, grease patties for mites, read up on it,,so I am only doing squat if I treat?, and some call this treating. Call it what you want gmcharlie, and no I don't think I am magic, just putting the ladies to bed for winter does not involve anything else for me. Well besides mouse guards, oh and I say abracadabra in the spring!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Grease patties were used to address Tracheal mites, but not Varroa. Which is what most beekeepers who treat hives are treating for, since tracheal mites have not been a problem for quite some time.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

No one here was referring to Trach mites... which was my point.. you can't test for those without a microscope and a lot of skill. my point was your throwing rocks and you have little to no clue what your talking about. You can keep bees all you like, anyway you like. but its not polite to harass others about what they do when you have no idea what your talking about........ 
I personally TRY not to do that.....


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

gmcharlie said:


> grease patty for mites??? Seems someone is not on the same page...... I think Keith's point was whatever your methods, time to pull that honey and start winter preps.


Grease patties supposedly improve trachael mites, i've never used them. I don't think they do anything for varrao. 

I just started fall mite 21 day mite counts via sticky board. My buddies italian hive is loaded vmites however my black bees that originated from an old colony in barn are doing rather well. If we don't treat it will probably die this winter, the queen was superceded a few weeks. I am going to do OA now for a couple weeks and if they live, do one in the middle of winter which will pretty much kill all of the mites. 

Im considering OA treating one or 2 of my black bee hives to compare the results to similar sized colonies with same stores and genetics. 

So far after 3 days the results are as follows 24/hr avg. If you can't tell, i like the black bees. 

1 Italian - 37
2 Black - 8
3 Black - 3 
4 Black - 2 
5 Black - 9
6 Black - 7


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

personaly I am doing a Achohol wash, like the powdered suger shake, but more accurate... Counts vary from 0-20 per 300 or so bees... so some great, some terrible...


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

gmcharlie said:


> No one here was referring to Trach mites... which was my point.. you can't test for those without a microscope and a lot of skill. my point was your throwing rocks and you have little to no clue what your talking about. You can keep bees all you like, anyway you like. but its not polite to harass others about what they do when you have no idea what your talking about........
> I personally TRY not to do that.....


I was not referring to Trach mites either, or throwing rocks I believe it was you who did that, by claiming that I am not doing squat. Anyway, grease patties with wintergreen oil helps control Varroa mite populations in late fall and winter.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you say so.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> If you say so.


ditto. How does the mite come in contact with the patty, do vmites feed on patties. I don't think essential oils do much unless dribbled throughout the hive or vaporized.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Decided not to make a point, The OP wanted an upbeat Reminder to put on Pollen patties, not a ludicrous argument over treated vs not treated...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

As far as I know, grease patties work by grease getting distributed around the hive on bees making it difficult for tracheal mites to get through the hairs surrounding trachea of the bees not yet infested.

Also as far as I know, grease patties w/ or w/out wintergreen oil have no effect on varroa mites. They probably don't do any damage.

Hopefully you aren't putting any Terramycin in your grease patty mix. Because that has been shown to promote resistance in AFB because of its slow release.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> The majority of my hives are managing mites on their own, and any hive that I am really concerned about managing them over winter will receive a grease patty. Vanderpool, No theory here, this is what works for me and my operation, and my winter lost has been around ten percent. However, there is room for improvement, I would like to get that number down to zero  I know I am doing my job, and very well if I say so myself! Does doing your job involve something else?



Fields I hope you come back in the spring with an update. Most with your mind set just disappear and we can only guess what happened.
Dave


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> i was not referring to trach mites either, or throwing rocks i believe it was you who did that, by claiming that i am not doing squat. Anyway, grease patties with wintergreen oil helps control varroa mite populations in late fall and winter.


trol


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

gmcharlie said:


> Decided not to make a point, The OP wanted an upbeat Reminder to put on Pollen patties, .


Fire at will, GM


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

:no: very tempting... but I am also trying to be better! Argumentive makes us both look like fools... and besides, its real hard to get anything pointing out someones stupididty or being critical past Barry


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

gmcharlie said:


> :no: very tempting...


lol


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## PewHeretic (Apr 21, 2013)

The University of Florida is STILL recommending using grease patties for tracheal mite treatment. When I started in 2008 that was the preferred method of treatment, now it's part of their IPM. 

You guys are starting to worry me. If I do nothing I feel I'm neglecting my stewardship. If I do too much I'm making lazy, welfare bees that can't take care of themselves. Fortunately I know there's no wrong or right answer. The solution is so evasive because we still don't know the "why" of bee disease much less how to treat it. But we try....and hopefully learn and get better for next year.

From my viewpoint I think all your "arguing" is rather helpful. I appreciate the experience leaking out from the passion in your posts. Just look at the membership pages. Lots of newbies and hungry minds lurking. Keep up the advice and lessons learned.....even if it ruffles friendly feathers.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> The University of Florida is STILL recommending using grease patties for tracheal mite treatment.


Good queens will solve the problem. No need for the grease patties.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

PewHeretic said:


> The University of Florida is STILL recommending using grease patties for tracheal mite treatment.


I bet they also recommend not treating for something you don't have. One part of any IPM Program is to determine whether one has a problem, what the problem is, to what degree, and how to best address it. It is a recommendation after all, not a required practice. They are recommending that if one has TM that one use grease patties to address their presence. Feel better now?


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## PewHeretic (Apr 21, 2013)

Yep!  Thanks. Sometimes I read/watch/hear stuff and hit the panic button before I've had time to digest it in context.


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