# Dedicated thread for advantech



## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

Hello beekeepers, i have seen bits of info here and there over people using Advantech to build hives and lids with, although i have not used it myself, i did find it in a mom and pops building supply store finally. I wanted to have this thread to gather info AND real world reviews of this product. How long have people had this product in the field? Were they painted? Do the bees take to it like regular wood? Im not sure what all thicknesses it comes in, but this particular store has it in 3/4" and 1/2" thicknesses. The guy at the store told me it was primarily used for flooring that wont be covered for some time, and it can deal with wetness fairly well. Used for flooring seems like it would have to be pretty tough. Myself, i cant stand painting, and not to mention it can be costly. Is Advantech really the true wonder material that its all cracked out to be? It is fairly expensive 35$ a sheet (3/4") but it might well be worth it. Thanks guys for the input and your thoughts.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Used for flooring seems like it would have to be pretty tough.

Just to be clear, Advantech is intended to be used as *sub*-flooring, meaning it gets covered by carpet, tile, hardwood, etc in the finished structure.
http://www.advantechperforms.com/


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

I've been using the 1/2 zip board by advantech. I am using it for lids right now, last year I made lots of lids for nuc boxes and they look as good as the day I put them on, BUT they weren't outdoors the whole time. This spring I made migratory lids with cleats using the board. I haven't put them out yet but a friend told me his lids that didn't get painted are starting to peel( the outter coating). For me, I wouldn't use it for anything that comes in contact with the ground. I was going to use it on the sides of my nuc boxes but desided against it. My plan was to use dimensional lumber for bottom and front/back and dado in the sides.
The 1/2 inch should be around $22.00 a board, the 3/4 might be more then you need, stuff is heavy too.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

From the link above I see that the sheathing comes in 1/2 thicknesses and the thinnest the flooring comes in is 19/32. Also the sheathing comes in square edge and tongue and groove, whereas the flooring is just tongue and groove. Does is work very well for bottom boards?


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

Thats exactly what i was wondering earlier, it seems like it would work well for bottom boards. Im sure painting it would make it that much tougher


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

I after reading all the fuss about it here on Beesource, i checked it out at the big box building store and was disappointed to find it was just wafer board, not really a plywood at all. Maybe I'm just prejudiced because of my past experience with wafer board and sawdust wood (particle board). -js


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> disappointed to find it was just wafer board

That's rather like comparing engineered boards like _Trex _to particleboard. They are similar in concept, but the amount of the plastic/resin in Trex is much higher, and the outdoor performance is much different.

Advantech has a higher resin content that ordinary OSB (waferboard). Its performance in an outdoor environment is certainly improved compared to OSB. 

However, Advantech, like ordinary OSB, is a product that the manufacturer expects to be used in a *not *_exposed to weather_ location.


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## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

> That's rather like comparing engineered boards like _Trex _to particleboard. They are similar in concept, but the amount of the plastic/resin in Trex is much higher, and the outdoor performance is much different.
> 
> Advantech has a higher resin content that ordinary OSB (waferboard). Its performance in an outdoor environment is certainly improved compared to OSB.
> 
> However, Advantech, like ordinary OSB, is a product that the manufacturer expects to be used in a *not *_exposed to weather_ location.


Very good points Graham, but as we all know sometimes it's not what a product is designed to do but what the product will ACTUALLY do that counts.:scratch: Perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought that this thread was created for just that reason; namely to find out what the product will or will not do. I'm not saying to ignore the manufacure's warning/advice/instructions at all. I too am curious to hear the reports. Just my thoughts. :waiting:


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm a contractor and I don't like to use new products, at least until they've been around for a few years and any unforeseen problems come to light. I was very skeptical when my local Lowes replaced 3/4 T&G plywood with Advantec. The first time I used it, maybe 2 years ago, I left a large scrap out in the weather. It's still sitting there, virtually unchanged.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Dow never intended their blue insulating foam boards to be used in aircraft construction, either and don't warrant it for that purpose.

But it has been successfully used by EAA & homebuilders to make aircraft for about forty years now.

I think Advantech is well suited to all weather use in hive construction.
I paint mine, but have left a box I made last summer bare for evaluation, and presently shows no degradation other than sun bleaching a bit.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Does it have more lateral strength than OSB?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> Does it have more lateral strength than OSB?


I'm guessing so. It's pretty sturdy stuff. Very dense. Makes a nice, heavy top. Stays flat. If I had a concern, it would be that I don't know if or what it out-gases.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Posted on a nuc thread earlier but I will repeat. More than ten years use of 3/4 advantech unpainted on a old trailor. Sits in the snow and rain, melting snow keeps it wet for more than a month at a time. One corner is punky now, the rest fine. Hauled crushed rock 2 feet deep on it this summer, still haul lawn tractor on it. It is tuff. Still not sure I would use it over standard wood hives or plywood nuc. Heavy, not that pretty and it does suck up the paint.


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## curios1 (Jul 2, 2012)

it is what it is. it is used in building construction. it could be used to build and construct a beehive as well as a house. i would not buy it to build hives. ( lids or covers ) when you could find scraps on a job site for free, close to the size you need. ( it's expensive best to ask ) i have a bunch of scrap pieces i plan to make some covers and bottom boards with. i would not build boxes with it. cause you would have to nail or screw into the end grain of at least two pieces to the box. most likely the end with the dado. it's not desighned to be drilled or nailed into the end. it is desighned to be face nailed to a framed structure 3/4 tg for the floor 1/2 square edge to outer walls 5/8 tg or square with clips to the roof all face nailed. yes it holds up to moister longer and better. FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. but its still wood eventualy it comes apart if left in the elements unprotected. i would not spend money on it for building bee hives. when there are scraps of all types to be had.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I was wondering how they might work as bottom boards mounted in a pallet. That requires some lateral strength, though, as all the pallet lifting force is exerted on them, multiplied by the number of pallets in the stack.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Jim, I know this is an Advantech thread, but I remember you asking about treated 1x6s in another thread for pallet use. I believe those would be better for you than Advantech on a pallet.

I realize that the treated "ground contact" 1x6s are a hard to find item, but you may be able to order in skid quantities from a local lumber dealer. Here is a product listing:
http://www.mcfarlandcascade.com/welcome/resources/pdfs/ConstructionCatalog.pdf

The item you probably want is:
1x6 - 16' Std & Btr 128 5490001010616

Its on page 3, in the "Boards S4S Cedartone UC4A Ground Contact" section.

Its also possible that once you show a local dealer this listing, they hay have an alternate competitive source that is closer to you than Tacoma WA!


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks guys for all the comments, we do have some 3/4" toungue and groove OSB at our local home depot. Although its about 22$ a sheet. I was wondering if it was a off brand Advantech product. The sign says OSB, it probably is. That would be pretty cheap for a Advantech material. Well next time i make bottom boards, and lids, im gonna use the Advantech. And YES i will paint it. I might try a few lids with not painting, just to test it out in the Texas heat.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

No the 1x 6's are what rest on the ground. (thanks for the link I will check it out) I was thinking of the advantech mounted on the 2x4 stringers for the bottom boards themselves.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

There is a lot of info on this thread, so I will add mine. I have been using it for about 5 years, absolutely no problems with it.

I like Advantec for tops. I paint most of them, but not all. They are great for drilling the hole for through the top jar feeders. I will post a photo of top feeders using Advantec. Some painted, some not.

Advantec is very heavy for bottoim boards of 10 framers, but, I use it in all my 5 frame nucs.

Advantec should not be compared to OSB. It is similar, but radically different, and infinately better. I have not found OSB to be good for any part of a bee hive except perhaps the top when covered with metal. Even then, not great.

I have never had Advantec to separate, but, it will warp if placed in an uneven position. When used as a migratory top, the bees will seal the top and you will not get warping. It will not warp or separate when used as floor of bottom board.

For migratory tops, it is well worth the $32.00 per sheet. I would paint it just to make it better.

Advantec is not just wafer board. Much, much, better.

I built a 5 frame nuc from Advantec, using box joints, (photo attached), but I prefer solid wood for sides/ends of nucs and 10 framers.

Hope this is helpful.

















cchoganjr


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

Cleo: did you have any difficulty getting the nail to drive in from the side like that? -js


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> There is a lot of info on this thread, so I will add mine. I have been using it for about 5 years, absolutely no problems with it.
> 
> I like Advantec for tops. I paint most of them, but not all. They are great for drilling the hole for through the top jar feeders. I will post a photo of top feeders using Advantec. Some painted, some not.
> 
> ...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

funwithbees said:


> The wood was some type of plywood used for concrete forms that is heavy and industructble.


Possibly this stuff ....
http://www.mccauseylumber.com/ppcfp.html


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

funwithbees said:


> Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the pics Cleo. I bought some hives out of FL that had flat migratory tops. The wood was some type of plywood used for concrete forms that is heavy and industructble. Not advantec . Does anyone else use this and what is it called?
> ...


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

:digging:


Rader Sidetrack said:


> Possibly this stuff ....
> http://www.mccauseylumber.com/ppcfp.html


looks similar.I'd take apic but they are all buried under the snow:digging:


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I sure hope this is good stuff, as I just bought 10 sheets ($$$) of it yesterday. I plan to make bottom boards and tops for a bunch of mating nucs.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Wow I like how well it looks like this stuff machines. I'm definitely going to have to get some and try it out.


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

Man Cleo, that stuff is pretty tough. It looks like the finger joints you made with it didnt chip out at all. Thanks for everyones 2 cents on this subject. Im already planning for my hives for next year and i wanted to add the Advantech to my materials list. It amazes me at how expensive all this stuff is. Even if someone GAVE you complete hives, just buying foundations and frames alone will eat you up (its a sore subject with the wife) so finding materials that will last are a important thing. Thanks again guys


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

The best way to think of Advantec is that it isn't wood... It is wood impregnated *plastic.*. If plastic hives appeal to you than try it. It is very durable, but it is also very heavy. One of the few down sides of it that I can think of is that it is hard on saw blades. But that only becomes an issue if you are cutting a lot of it.


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## Sharpbees (Jun 26, 2012)

Decided to try a little test. I made covers from Advantech and since there seem to have been some questions as to how well it will stand up I put a 4"x4"x3/4" unpainted piece in a bucket of water. I'll post the results after a week or when there is a change. It has been 24 hours and still no change.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

dixiebooks... No, I predrilled the holes. No problem then.

cchoganjr


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the feedback, i am definitely trying advancech next time i build just not right now. All the test everyone is doing is really interesting. At 35$ a sheet, thats what i paid for a good piece of plywood. Im pretty sure with stuff painted, you could get over 20 years easily. Thanks again for all the feedback. And howdy Cleo


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## coopermaple (Aug 30, 2009)

In our day jobs we have a construction business. We have been using Advantec for over 15 years as a subfloor. It is heavy and tough and will hold up for a while when exposed to moisture. It will under the right conditions rot, crumble, swell, flake apart. It does take much more time than OSB (which is garbage for building material and priced accordingly) to breakdown.

We used some to make solid bottom boards a few years ago(4-6). They were painted when built. They eventually started to swell and the top grain is lifting and flaking away. We have some solid bottom boards made from 3/4" cdx plywood before we tried the Advantec that are in better condition. I would suspect the Advantec will hold up better in drier conditions than we have.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> dixiebooks... No, I predrilled the holes. No problem then.
> 
> cchoganjr


Thanks, Mr. Hogan. I was thinking of getting a sheet and making supers for my Coates nucs. I've been using a pneumatic staple gun for assembly of the nucs. Do you think I'd be able to do that with advantech? Thx. -js


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

dixiebooks.... Yes a staplegun will work fine , No problems with the box joint. 

At the time I made the Nuc and took the photo, I was still using nails. I have changed over to all staples and Titebond III. It saves time not having to predrill the holes for a nail.

cchoganjr


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

That is the route I took, also. Was pre-drilling and nailing. I even bought a big box (30#?) of nails online and by the time they came in I discovered the pneumatic stapler. I use TBII during assembly but use TBIII to paint the ply edges. Of course, I don't use box joints, I just butt the pieces up against each other. Thanks for the info. -js


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