# Pollination of soybeans



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

Basic rule of business WLC. If there's a demand, and it pays enough, someone will fill it.

Let's see first if your prophecy re the beans comes true though.

Surprising as it must be to those who get their beekeeping information from the sensationalist branches of the news media, increasing hive numbers is easily accomplished by commercial beekeepers if they want to do that. The only limiting factor really, is money. So if the soybean guys pay right, more hives will materialise.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

What does that mean "increase the seed set into the double digits"? I am very interested in what bees may do for the soybean yields. All of the books on it say the bees do nothing, but we certainly make some honey here off the soy.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

Just as an illustration of that, (my previous post), beehive numbers in my country use to be in a kind of holding pattern, for years. Then 2 things happened. Varroa struck, and Manuka honey became very valuable.

The varroa removed all the wild hives and suddenly pollination of pip fruit and other crops became a bigger issue. Sensible money started getting paid for it. Manuka transformed struggling beekeepers who for years were teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, into millionaires, almost overnight. The NZ honey "brand" generally got a lift and is now well priced worldwide compared to other honey. 

Basic result, money has been flowing into the industry. And the effect of that, is despite everybody I meet telling me bees are in a terrible crisis, the number of managed hives here is 50% higher than it was 10 years ago.

To quote from you, "We certainly have the technology and heavy industry to make it happen". But really, it's just money that oils the wheels.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-013-0412-8

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/soybeans/can-bees-build-soybean-yields

I hope this helps.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

Pollination helps get yield up on soybeans some, but barely into double digits, like around 11%. Seeing as how soybeans are self pollinating to begin with, I don't see growers paying much if anything for pollination services.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

What's the yield of soybeans per acre?

Corn can get to 200 bushels. Yet, I think that soybean prices are higher than corn.

It also depends on the stock of bees. Some stocks will forage and collect pollen that most stocks won't.

My own opinion, if you plant soybeans and keep bees, see what a few hives per acre can do for your yield.

PS-I'm seeing soybeans at around 40 Bu at $13.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Are you ready for the 100 bushel challenge?

http://www.soyyieldchallenge.com/

Sounds like fun.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*



WLC said:


> What's the yield of soybeans per acre?
> 
> Corn can get to 200 bushels. Yet, I think that soybean prices are higher than corn.
> 
> ...


Depends on soil conditions and if they are single or double crop. Typical yeilds for beans in teh midwest will run from low 30, into high 40's

Bees do increase yeilds slightly, IN SOME years. but the number of colonies it would require would be in the billions. not pratical in a monoculture


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*



WLC said:


> http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-013-0412-8
> 
> http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/soybeans/can-bees-build-soybean-yields
> 
> I hope this helps.


If you stats are correct we could follow them up as follows: 
1. 40 bu average (US) 
2. with bees 10% + 
3. $13.00 bu ( price of Soy) 
4 5 bu increase x $13 = $65 per acre increased average gross under your assumptions.

How many bee guys are going to move in and out of their summer flow for "I'm gonna Guess" $30+- CASH?


Even more questionable is if the farmers are willing to cough up that much cash.

Then there is the spray issues which is going to be another story!!!!!!!

A financial analyst from Wall Street might see it happening but I have my doubts at the current commodity prices. 

Beans at $100 and we begin to talk a whole new game.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Soybeans is a wasted effort for beekeepers, unless they get paid for pollination but I have never heard of that outside if seed production
Little to no honey to be collected


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

We average 2200-3000 lbs seed per acre


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Ian said:


> Soybeans is a wasted effort for beekeepers....Little to no honey to be collected


You're right on that ..........soybeans everywhere, honey.............. nowhere!


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

Don't forget the value of the soy nectar/pollen to the beekeeper.

For some beekeepers, it would be worthwhile.

Some do see their bees forage on soybeans and get nectar.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*



WLC said:


> Some do see their bees forage on soybeans and get nectar.


Not that I know of........... Maybe pollen, but no one that I know or has posted here (that I can find) gets soy honey....


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

There's like 10,000 accessions of soybeans and 13 maturity groups alone.

Some have reported getting soybean flows.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

One of the Commercial guy near me keeps 300+ hives on soy beans.. I believe he averages 80+ lbs per hive. In an area where 50lbs is the norm..

I'd have to call him up to confirm, but there are definitely people that make honey off soybeans in TN... 

The running joke is that our soybean honey gets trucked to East TN and comes back as "sourwood" honey....


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. Soybeans are notoriously erratic in nectar production, and are self-fertile anyway, so increases in crop are not going to be huge, particularly in light of the current trend toward nectarless beans to reduce problems with army worms (the moth feeds off the nectar while laying eggs).

I live in an area where there are at least 100 acres (and probably much more) in beans within flight distance every year. I will see what happens, since I can walk over to the beans and see what's in them any time I want. Last two years the late beans were a joke -- either way too dry or way too wet for proper germination, and hence low bloom and a really poor crop. This last summer the small field just down the road which is always beans had no bees in it all summer, although they worked it the year before. Maybe different beans (there are thousands of types of soybean) or different weather and no nectar.

I'd rather the locals started raising dairy cattle again. Lots of clover hay needed, and lots of honey from the clover.

Peter


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

*Re: Industrial Beekeeper*

We get soybean honey. Richard Adee says he gets a box a year. He runs deeps. But with the farmers knocking down every tree and fast approaching the ditches this could be a great reason to keep the bee guy around. If I give them a few gallons of honey and such that's nice, but if I directly put 10 20 maybe 50 grand in his pocket now that's great. Maybe not spray the clover out or let the alfalfa bloom for a few days to keep me here!


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## hillbeekeeper (Mar 11, 2013)

I built up the two top deeps on my two hives and put most of their winter stored on from soybeans this year. And I didn't get them on 'beans until about the last week of July. The two things you need for soy honey is heat and soil moisture. Which we have ample supplies of.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm thinking it must be the type of soy planted. We've had all the combinations of weather over the years and no soy honey....


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Since most of you reporting soybean flows are in the south, I guess it's a matter of the types of soybeans (perhaps maturity groups) that you have available.

So, do you 'Gentlemen of the South' think that you've got more acres of soybeans growing than there are almond acres in California (about 750,000)?

Heh, heh.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I have no idea, on the acres of soybeans, but I can tell you that 5-10 miles along the mississippi river from Mo down into Ms are covered in soy beans.. Not to mention that the a good bit of TN/AR/MS grows beans away from the delta/flood plane.. I'd have to go to do some "googling" but there are a "bunch" of beens grown here... Now do the bees/beekeepers benefit from it as much as the almonds? Probably not... If you wanted an acre to acre comparison. I'd be really surprised if there are more almonds than beans grown..

Edit: Did that googling...

http://www.usda.gov/nass/PUBS/TODAYRPT/acrg0612.pdf

3,200,000 Acres of Soybeans in Arkansas
1,290,000 Acres of Soybeans in Tennessee
2,100,000 Acres of Soybeans in Mississippi

So yes, more than the 750k acres of almonds... Really surprised that the cotton numbers aren't higher... miles and miles and miles of cotton/beans/corn in this area.... mileeeeees...


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, I guess that all you have to do is convince the delta soybean farmers that you can not only increase their yields, but you should get paid for it as well.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I'm working on that... Not the being paid part, but the allowing me to put in hives... Most farmers don't like dealing with it, but I've known this guy for years. He farms ~5-10k acres of beans.

"IF" he saw a 10-40% improvement in bean set, per the random google articles of unknown worth. I'm sure the conversation would be brought up.... On that note, I have been seeing more and more hives being brought into the bean fields..


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

The numbers were from agricultural scientists by the way.

Regardless, it would be interesting to see what kind of productivity you could get out of your colonies on soybeans, especially if the plantings were staggered enough so that you could do it for, say, 3 months.

You can't do that with almonds.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Last year my neighbour sprayed for Lygus bug in his soy's during the bloom close to my hives. I did not have any bee losses because the bees were not in that field. Other things blooming over the otherway. 

I guess if the bees had to choose between soy or corn , they would choose soy.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

If Richard Adee is claiming a box of soybean honey each year then it's a cumulative number. . I search soybean fields each year that are virtually in the shadow of beehives and it's a real event to find a single bee. I could download a video I did last summer but it would be a video about nothing aside from beautiful fields of tall healthy bloomimg soybeans with my hives in the background. We used to have an occassional light flow years ago farther east in Iowa on a particularly hot summer but I am convinced, at least in our area that bees have little if any attraction to soybeans.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I'm reading that there are over 900,000 irrigated acres of soybeans in Mississippi alone. It's probably around 2 million acres total.

That's a lot of soybeans.


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## capitalbeesupply (Jul 28, 2013)

We grow a fair number of acres of soybeans each year (anywhere from 1000-1700 acres depending on the year). On our home farm we also keep about 20 colonies of honeybees. These colonies are typically setting adjacent a soybean field. There is other forage adjacent to the hives too including alfalfa and clover that we have put in specifically for the bees on what would be otherwise marginal farmland plus our field roads tend to be a grass/clover mix. Over the last 8 years I've watched and watched and watched those bean fields to see if the bees ever work the soybeans...from what I've seen is incredibly rare to see any significant number of honeybees in our soybeans when they are flowering (lucky to see a couple when scouting a whole field for soybean aphids). Instead they'll be in the clover, the alfalfa, the roadside vegetation (sweet clover, milkweeds, thistles, etc). I've often wondered whether the flows people report from soybeans are really due to the bees collecting honeydew from soybean aphid infestation rather than collecting soybean nectar....dunno...my conclusion so far is that when I see honeybees in the soybeans I better check for aphids.....


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## bassbee (Apr 26, 2013)

As a farmer myself, I do not see soybean pollination as a business that will ever get going. We make money off soybeans but we usually place them where the land is not a fertile as others and it is more or less a cover crop during the summer for the poor land that comes on farms that we rent that has some good land. A 10% increase in yield can not justify hive rental fees. With the yield numbers in my area and the hive rental fees, if a farmer rented hives for soybean pollination he would just be spending his profit he would get without hives on rental fees. We planted soybeans all around my bee yard this year and there was no significant increase in yield that can really be contributed to the bees. I wonder how this increase in yield come about anyway that people speak of. There are so many determining factors that affect crop yield that I don't see how anyone could do a study or pin point that honey bees contribute to the yield.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

"often wondered whether the flows people report from soybeans are really due to the bees collecting honeydew from soybean aphid infestation rather than collecting soybean nectar....dunno...my conclusion so far is that when I see honeybees in the soybeans I better check for aphids...."

That makes a lot of sense. 
I wonder if these guys would test that soy honey, if they would actually find it came from the ditches a mile and half over


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## hillbeekeeper (Mar 11, 2013)

No. I never saw my bees in the soybeans, but the bumblebees and butterflies workin' 'em like there's no tomorrow is a dead giveaway to a nectar flow.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, if your bees are packing away honey on soybeans, there's at least the opportunity to see if they can increase the yield.


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## Randy south MS (Aug 7, 2013)

Im no expert for sure, but all the research I did this fall on beans said that only the blue or purple blooming varieties had a nectar flow, and then it needed to be growing on bottom land with plenty of rainfall.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

"The potential market for Honeybee pollination could be easily 10 times what it is today if soybean pollination ever takes off "

You better just stay in NY City Arthur. You have apparently never even seen a soy bean field from the way you talk. About the best a bee keeper is ever going to get from a soy bean farmer is a free spot to park some hives or perhaps a spot to park some hives with a cost of only a few five pound bottles of honey as payment. Farmers can not pay anything for a very, very iffy 10% soy bean yield improvement. Particularly when that improvement is not going to happen most years. Plus the bee keeper might well have to feed his bees if there are no native wild flowers available for the bees to work for nectar.

We have grown millions and millions of acres of soy beans in the US now for the last 60 or 70 years. Do you really think farmers are so stupid they have been missing the benefits of honey bee pollination for all that time? If you do think so you are incredibly ignorant about how smart farmers are and what good business managers they are. I guess you must also think all the bee keepers are equally stupid for missing an obvious nectar bonanza all those years?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Richard, My Man.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Richard, 

You know good and well that the 42 bushels per acre of soy beans at $13.50 per bushel leaves plenty of room for the farmer to just give the money away.

It's not like they have to pay for fuel, diesel, or other frivolous items. *winks*

I agree, that most of the farmers that I know don't spend any money than they have too and are very skilled at squeezing every cent from the ground. 

The best I hope for is a place to bees, where I'll probably trade honey for the chance to shoot a random deer. *grins*


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Richard, watch the tone.

Regardless, there are southern beekeepers who do see the opportunity. I'm sure that there are a number of soybean farmers who would also like to increase their yields to better than 40 bushels an acre.

I do know that U.S. soybean production has flattened out while South American soybean productivity has surpassed our own.

It really is a vast untapped pollination market.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

"It really is a vast untapped pollination market."

Laugh ,

Like Richard said ... Lol


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

This subject has popped up in bee meetings for decades. There have been verifiable reports of soybean honey produced through the years in Louisiana and Mississippi (perhaps where Eide's reports are from) that I have heard but in the northern US (or at least the north central) the probability of finding bees working soybeans is only slightly greater than the probability of finding Sasquatch out there. No one would be more excited at the prospect of a beneficial soybean/beehive relationship but as Oldtimer pointed out earlier, farmers are a pretty bright bunch. They are always looking for a yield advantage and at current soybean prices and as many beeyards as there are around bean fields, if there was an advantage to be gained, then farmers would be knocking beekeepers doors down to get bees.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Same with canola, in regards to increased yield due to pollination


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Aren't soybeans heavily sprayed?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Aren't soybeans heavily sprayed?


Yes but I have never seen spray loss from it. What does that tell ya?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't know? That the bees aren't getting killed by spray applied to soybeans?

Is soy bean pollen nutritionally valuable to honeybees?


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

If southern beekeepers and southern soybean farmers managed to team up and increase both soybean and Honeybee productivity, then all other markets would be at a competitive disadvantage.

The South is soon likely to be the major soybean producing region of the country, and the South is already a major Honeybee producing area.

I think that they can potentially capture both markets.

As for the research I've cited, it's relatively new. No one was seriously examining Honeybee soybean pollination before these studies were done.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Have you ever seen a soy flower or tried to pollinate one yourself? I wouldn't wish it on anything, they're really built to self pollinate.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

jim lyon said:


> Yes but I have never seen spray loss from it. What does that tell ya?


It tells me that they are never in the soybean field to begin with.
I looked at fields around me this year and couldn't find any honeybees in them.
I even let my alfalfa field bloom for a while and mostly only helped out the bumble bees and butterflies, must of been flow for bees somewhere else- I would extend my time between mowing the yard and didn't spray my yard this year because I always seen bees working the white clover in my yard ( I have a 2 acre yard)


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

WLC said:


> Richard, watch the tone.
> 
> Regardless, there are southern beekeepers who do see the opportunity. I'm sure that there are a number of soybean farmers who would also like to increase their yields to better than 40 bushels an acre.
> 
> ...


Careful how you phrase that . Yields per acre are less, Acres planted is the variable. 77 million at 43 bushels per acre average for 2013


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-013-0412-8

This study found an 18% increase in yield when Honeybees were used to pollinate soybeans.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Aren't soybeans heavily sprayed?


Not usualy. Thrips can be a problem, as well as other bugs, but as normal beans are not sprayed during any sort of blooming. At least not here in IA/ IL/ IN 

As for bees working them, Sorry Jim but it happens quite a bit here in IL. Last season was my best ever for soybean honey. Only crop they had though so that may have been a huge factor. Bees worked beans quite heavily this season. Averaged 3 bees per Square yard 200 yardss from the hives, ( yes I counted) for almost 10 days.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Thats an interesting study but it really says nothing about the variety of soybean they are using. Obviously they had to use a variety with attractiveness to bees to get such results. Seed companies are constantly running side by side yield tests looking for improvements in both yield and other factors such as standibility and disease resistance. My assumption (and its only an assumption) is that newer varieties that are showing an increase in yields most likely get that increase at the expense of nectar production. If attractiveness to bees is never a selection criteria then we will continue to see soybeans being grown that have no attractiveness to bees whatsoever. The bottom line is why would seed producers develop seeds that require the additional expense of having bees brought in, it just dosent make sense.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

The abstract from the research paper WLC posted mentions 18% yield increases as compared to other pollinators. The abstract does not provide very much information and I am certainly not going to shell out almost $40 to read the entire paper. Since it wasn't mentioned in the abstract I am going to assume that the authors were not able to determine how or why the soybean yields increased.

In another link WLC posted there was a mention of trying to decrease pod drop. These are fertilized pods that drop while immature. Since I have seen plenty of soybean pods with only one mature bean in them I doubt it is an incomplete pollination issue.

Without knowing why the soybean yields increased we don't know if it is because of honeybees or not.

I believe that The Honey Housholder on Beesource gets good, regular soybean flows here in Ohio. I have hives located adjacent to soybean fields and can only find the occassional honeybee working the soybean flowers.

Tom


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Jim:

I've noticed that they're not giving information about the specific cultivars that they're using in these studies. Nothing about Honeybee stocks either.

I've heard that soybean yields haven't increased more than 6% since 2000.

The only information we have in hand is that studies have found increased yields in Honeybee pollinated soybeans in the double digits.

And, beekeepers, mostly in the South, have reported that their bees are foraging in soybeans.

How can I put this, somebody is going to start putting pollinator pallets in soybeans.

It's inevitable.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

I already do put bees in beans.... just don't get paid


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

gmcharlie said:


> I already do put bees in beans.... just don't get paid


And...

How well do they do in the beans?


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

This year it was one of the few crops to produce. We had a terrible season(drought) they worked the beans hard. Last year I saw no bees in beans whatsoever. This year I spent a lot more time looking though. 
It is/can be tough to find the bees working them. the flowers are tiny and a lot of "overhead leaves" the bees seem to stay in the understory of leaves until full. moving from flower to flower very close to the ground.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

TWall:

RG Palmer, one of the USDA researchers working on this issue, reported finding 2 cultivars that did well with pollination.

Someone is going to put together the right soybean cultivars, with the right Honeybee stock, and they'll just keep going from there.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

gmcharlie said:


> This year it was one of the few crops to produce. We had a terrible season(drought) they worked the beans hard. Last year I saw no bees in beans whatsoever. This year I spent a lot more time looking though.
> It is/can be tough to find the bees working them. the flowers are tiny and a lot of "overhead leaves" the bees seem to stay in the understory of leaves until full. moving from flower to flower very close to the ground.


Now that's spoken like a REAL Farmer/Beekeeper.

We need more just like you.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

WLC said:


> RG Palmer, one of the USDA researchers working on this issue, reported finding 2 cultivars that did well with pollination.
> 
> Someone is going to put together the right soybean cultivars, with the right Honeybee stock, and they'll just keep going from there.


Well WLC, there's your big opportunity.

Don't think I'll be investing though.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

I doubt if farmers (at least in Indiana) are going to pay for bees unless there is undisputed evidence that it will make enough in yields to pay for the bees AND Make more money per acre.
Then again why would soybean seed companies want to make a soybean that relies on bees?? That would also be more weather dependent.
There are a lot of studies being done to get to a self pollinating almond tree, wich may be a few years down the road! But until then they rely on beekeepers to supply bees, which relying on someone else besides themselves to produce a decent crop. 
Most Farmers planting soybeans will not want to depend on someone else (that has no investment in their crop) to bring bees in.

How many hives per acre would it take to make a difference? And that's if they don't choose something else besides the beans.
It is my understanding that where the almonds are there is nothing else for the bees to pollinate, so the bees have no chose.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Ninja Bee Strike Force! 300 bushel per half acre yields with double crop rotation... All while wearing black masks.....

I hope it all pans out, but as previously pointed out... There are 4+ million acres of beans being grown in a 5+ hour radius of me... Someone somewhere would have probably noticed that the fields next to the bees have a 10%+ average than the ones without..

But maybe not... It's like the Godzilla taco bell commercial... I think I need a bigger hive...


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, since using Honeybees to pollinate soybeans is such a new market, I'd think that the first efforts would be exploratory in nature.

You would need to get the right people in the same place, with perhaps some of the research for talking points, and see where it goes from there.

I don't see pollination fees as being the first order of business.

It's more along the lines of setting up informal trials.

We don't know what the benefits are to either soybean farmer or beekeeper. Not yet.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Sounds like you should be the pioneer in Soybean Pollination business. Maybe become the next Joe Traynor for pollination services.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

..


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The last time I made a serious crop on soybeans was more than a decade ago. The last time I had serious losses from spraying of soybeans was als about that long ago (but not the same year). I would guess either the soybeans were blooming or the weeds were blooming at the time they were sprayed. Since round-up ready soybeans came out I've gotten neither a crop nor harm from spraying them... probably because there is not a weed left alive in the field...


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

"Where is the new market at?'

As far as I can tell, it's in the South.

They've got plenty of bees, and they got way more soybeans than they can shake a hive tool at.

They've even got vast acreages of irrigated soybeans.

I guess you just have to be in the right place at the right time.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

..


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

LSHonda310 said:


> I think the only benefits would be a little more yield for the farmer and just a place to put bees for the beekeeper (no money for pollination).
> 
> Then again the yield would have to be substantial to put up with having bees all over your farm and trying to not kill them by spraying. Too much risk for the gain, farmers are making enough now to jeopardize their lively hood by change.



This is why I keep my bees in the beans... the beans get less spraying, and the farmers I work with go out of their way to ensure they don't get sprayed. The hives being obvious, keep them front and center in the farmers minds when its spray time. 

I have also talked to and worked with the state maintenance crews..... and they don't spray around hives. its amazing what you can do with a 15 minute conversation.


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## hillbeekeeper (Mar 11, 2013)

Same here. The farmer I set my hives on only sprayed some glyphosate around the field perimeter this year and no pesticides for I.P.M. As far as weeds in the ditch, soybeans bloom during our summer dearth here.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

I am going to sign up on Drift Watch https://driftwatch.org
Looks like 9 states so far have the program.

Most of the big ag spray outfits around here have Drift Watch on their computer so when they locate the field they are going to spray it will alert them to possible drift problems, for example bees or any specialty crop that is signed up in the program.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

LSHonda310 said:


> You say there is a new market, but you don't know where it is?
> And how can you be sure the bees will choose the beans over weeds in a ditch??


It's the 'Delta' soybean area.

Like, in the South.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

We're having trouble getting gmcharlie and hill beekeeper out of the soybeans first.

They won't budge.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

..


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

LSHonda,

I'd say that it's so new, that it is still developing.

I imagine that something similar may have happened as the almond pollination market first developed.

First, you have to get the bees into the soybeans.

Then the market will develop.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes as a follow up to some of the previous comments re farmers and spraying, I'd like to give some of them a thumbs up for doing their best for the bees.

I recently met for the first time the farmer next door to one of my bee yards, and discovered that since he saw the bees on his neighbors property, he has without being asked, gone to the trouble of doing all his spraying at night in the hope this will minimise damage to the bees. 

This was really going above and beyond, lucky to have such great folks in the world.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

> I'd say that it's so new, that it is still developing.
> 
> I imagine that something similar may have happened as the almond pollination market first developed.
> 
> First, you have to get the bees into the soybeans.


The big difference is most varieties of almond MUST have pollinators to set fruit. Soybeans MIGHT benefit from honeybees.

Tom


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

If they're foraging on soybeans in enough density (a little over 1 colony per acre), then you'll see an increase in yield.

That's what the research has shown.

If you're not growing the right kind of soybeans, even in the south, it isn't relevant.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

WLC said:


> If they're foraging on soybeans in enough density (a little over 1 colony per acre), then you'll see an increase in yield.
> 
> That's what the research has shown.
> 
> If you're not growing the right kind of soybeans, even in the south, it isn't relevant.


Arthur your whole idea isn't relevant. We have a perfectly good self fertile crop and you want to change it into a pollinator dependent crop. That is simply insane. The seed companies are going to select for self fertile every single time as farmers have zero interest in supporting pollinators. Farmers also have zero interest in nectar bearing soy beans. Why have a plant waste energy making useless nectar when it could put that energy into beans? So, if nectar is of any detriment at all in terms of bean yield give a bit of time for selective breeding to happen and there will be zero nectar for bees to gather. You really need to stick to making coca cola honey in NYC with your one roof top hive which you do not even harvest rather than telling others about business issues you know nothing about. Listen real carefully - There will never be a market in the next 50 years for pollination of soy beans where farmers will pay $2 a hive per season. End of story right there.


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

My fields had beens in them twice since the hives were set.. I spent considerable time checking to see if the bees WERE in the beans.. Then i spent time watching the bees to see where they were going.. I had high hopes, that were miserably dashed. No Soy honey, they were still after the flowers along the roadsides, creek banks and pastures.. Soybeans were fifteen feet from five of the hives, about 200 yards from the rest, covering 300 acres.. SWEET CORN on the other hand was COVERED in bees. My wife refused to go in the garden the hum was so loud in the corn...
I have read as some posted that bees DO pollinate beans, and that the yield was increased specifically because of the extra pollination.. I didnt spend HUGE amounts of time searching, I just walked the rows, pausing, watching, waiting and checking every few steps.. i did this five different times through the bloom, and counted the bees I saw on one hand actually ON Soybean blooms.. I have to wonder if variety makes a difference? Climate? Or as some mentioned, lack of other resources?

I would also have to wonder about the treated seed being used...


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

Richard Cryberg said:


> Arthur your whole idea isn't relevant. We have a perfectly good self fertile crop and you want to change it into a pollinator dependent crop. That is simply insane. The seed companies are going to select for self fertile every single time as farmers have zero interest in supporting pollinators. Farmers also have zero interest in nectar bearing soy beans. Why have a plant waste energy making useless nectar when it could put that energy into beans? So, if nectar is of any detriment at all in terms of bean yield give a bit of time for selective breeding to happen and there will be zero nectar for bees to gather. You really need to stick to making coca cola honey in NYC with your one roof top hive which you do not even harvest rather than telling others about business issues you know nothing about. Listen real carefully - There will never be a market in the next 50 years for pollination of soy beans where farmers will pay $2 a hive per season. End of story right there.


Thank you, you can put it into words better than me.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I do read the scientific literature.

I found an interesting observation made by Brazilian scientists studying soybean pollination by Honeybees.

They not only said that the design of the soybean florets not only lend themselves well to pollination by Honeybees, they also stated that it appears that they only resort to self-pollination as a last resort after not having been insect pollinated.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Have you ever actually seen a soybean field in full bloom? Have you ever seen bees work soybeans?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Richard Cryberg said:


> Arthur your whole idea isn't relevant. We have a perfectly good self fertile crop and you want to change it into a pollinator dependent crop. That is simply insane. The seed companies are going to select for self fertile every single time as farmers have zero interest in supporting pollinators. Farmers also have zero interest in nectar bearing soy beans. Why have a plant waste energy making useless nectar when it could put that energy into beans? So, if nectar is of any detriment at all in terms of bean yield give a bit of time for selective breeding to happen and there will be zero nectar for bees to gather. You really need to stick to making coca cola honey in NYC with your one roof top hive which you do not even harvest rather than telling others about business issues you know nothing about. Listen real carefully - There will never be a market in the next 50 years for pollination of soy beans where farmers will pay $2 a hive per season. End of story right there.


:lpf: Nuff said?


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Did someone just ask me if I've ever seen a legume or a bee on a legume?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

No. They specifically asked you if you ever seen a soybean field in full bloom and have you ever seen bees working soybeans.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I've seen plenty of crops growing, including soybeans.

However, I've never seen a bee on soybean. I have no reason to be in a soybean field, especially in July.

Frankly, I've seen bees on legumes so many times, I'm surprised to hear that there are soybeans that bees won't touch.

Regardless, there's peer reviewed research, as well as beekeeper verified evidence that it does occur.

The research is saying that it does improve yields.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Not to sound rude, but this discussion is not about other legumes. Its specifically about Soybeans.

Is there a difference between research science and application science?


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Agricultural scientists from around the world have been working on this for decades.

From here in the U.S., Brazil, Canada, and Australia...

Did you even bother to look at any of the links I've posted near the beginning of the thread?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

No I did not bother to read them.

Do you see a difference between research science and application science?


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Buddy, I can't think of any other way to test for Honeybee pollination of soybeans except out in the field.

They've got pictures and everything, including a picture of a Honeybee visiting a soybean floret.

I don't know why you think that it's my job to convince anyone that Honeybees can forage on soybeans.

My 'gig' is pointing out that there's research showing a potential new market in soybean pollination.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Actually you can call me Brian vice Buddy.

You still haven't ansered my question about research science and application science. Does it really matter someone snapped a picture of a honeybee on a soybean floret and you seen said picture?

If you believe there is such an amount of money to be made then go be the next Joe Traynor in pollination and make millions on it. Backup the research with your applied proven science and prove there is a way to generate a new market in the pollination world.

Is your "gig" really to point out research and try to convince seasoned beekeepers of a possible new market? How much do you earn doing that?

Again I am not trying to sound rude. Just questioning.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

WLC said:


> Did you even bother to look at any of the links I've posted near the beginning of the thread?


Actually, yes, I did. I didnt find enough specificity to even pique my interest. Been working on it for decades? What exactly have they got for us then? 
Look, there are millions of acres of soybeans in the country and several million bee hives as well. Have you bothered listening to any of the feedback you are being given on this thread by experienced beekeepers? You obviously want to be perceived as a bee researcher yet, as near as I can tell, your research amounts to google searches and your experience dosent extend beyond the boroughs of NYC. I know you may not want to hear this and I dont say it with any malice, but if you want to be the next great bee researcher (and the first anonymous one) then you need to do what every reputable researcher does, you need to get hands on, get dirty, get "boots on the ground" and actually experience what it is that you are proposing.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, the 'Soyeros' of Brazil are currently testing out pollination of soybeans by Africanized Honeybees.

So, I think that we're about to hand over the soybean crown.

However, It's not over yet.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

You need to get your pallets onto soybeans where practicable.


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## Crabo (Jan 17, 2012)

WLC said:


> You need to get your pallets onto soybeans where practicable.


We have our bees in North Dakota during the summer. Our family farms there. They grow soybeans, wheat, canola, clover and sunflowers. The bees do not spend anytime working the soybeans. We have been doing it for the last five summers. Enough testing for me.

The only way I could see it working, is if you had a plot of organically grown, genetically unmodified crop and there were no other other food sources nearby.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I've kept bees on soybeans since I first started keeping bees more than 12 years ago. The classic summer crop rotation in my area is cotton, corn, and soy. The hives on cotton produce lots of surplus honey when the weather is real hot with the right amount of rain. This honey has a very distinctive taste and will not be mistaken for other honeys. The bees on soy will also produce a crop of honey under the right conditions. Again, hot temps and the right amount of rain is critical. When I say hot, this is Virginia hot with really high humidity.The soy yield is not typically as large as you get off cotton, but most years we get a crop. 2011 and 2012 were great soybean yields, 2013 was much cooler and the yields were VERY poor - virtually zero. The honey from soybeans is far different than cotton, and I feel has a substantially better taste. Oh, and there is NOTHING else blooming at the time in my area which could produce decent yields. Areas away from cotton/soy are in a major dearth in July and August.

Yes, I have witnesses bees working soybean flowers. You really need to get into the beans to observe this, but at least in my area it does occur. In my area, beans are not sprayed much. I have a great working relationship with the farmer so I know when and what exactly is sprayed and see virtually no kills. Last summer I mentioned the research on increased yields to the farmer and he was very skeptical of the value or even if bees were present in the beans. It really doesn't matter much to me as I don't ever plan on becoming a commercial pollinator, I just want a safe and productive place to keep bees.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

AstroBee said:


> Yes, I have witnesses bees working soybean flowers. You really need to get into the beans to observe this, but at least in my area it does occur.


I too have witnessed bees working the soybeans as I used to keep bees on a soybean field while living in Missouri. I agree you have to be right in the thick of the beans to see them working it. I never had a pesticide kill on them while on beans. 

I have also witnessed the bees completely ignoring the beans. Most likely due to the shortage of rainfall and lack of irrigation on beans in Missouri. Its not viewed as a crop that needs to be irrigated.

How much honey on average do your bees make on Soybean?


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Cotton, Soy, Corn, Rice, Wheat, Oats are the main crops around here.... I'd guess that the hives make ~2+ supers off the beans/cottons... If you pull it as soon as it's capped... But we usually go into a decent dearth around the same time.. So if you pull all surplus, your need to be feeding... I usually pull about 1 super that I assume is soy/cotton... The rest of our flow is month of april/may/june when soy/cotton isn't blooming. The guys that "know" what they are doing average around 80lbs a hive on the beans.. At least that's my understanding... I haven't gotten it figured out yet... I pull 100+lbs off one hive and feed the other...

Hoping that all the hives do 50+ this year, planning to get them started earlier. *crosses fingers*


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

BMAC said:


> How much honey on average do your bees make on Soybean?


Typically I'll get two mediums of surplus. On a really good year three or four mediums. This past summer the bees just survived.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I'm just wondering how to correlate growing soy in Brazil using ahb to US soy varieties, climates, soil conditions and ehb.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Betting more of that is cotton than beans. I put hives in beans, but not for honey, for visibility and safety. Yes bees made bean honey this year, BUT I really beleive because it was lack of anything else.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I jumped ship when soy acreage was thought to be less than almonds..... Also, a bulk of the pollination occurs before the flower even opens in a lot of legumes, if the bloom opens at all. I've worked with varieties the flowers never even open fully which is what I'm betting is why some people see a flow and others do not.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/4483...133_soybean_glycine_max_l_merrill_flowers.pdf

I found this Brazilian study examining Africanized Honeybee pollination of Two varieties of soybeans, one of them RR ready, to be helpful in understanding how far ahead the Brazilians are in this area of research.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, U.S. beekeepers have been producing major honey crops from soybeans for a long time.

So, you really don't need to go 'Africanized' to get the job done.

I was just pointing out that there's some very serious research currently going on in Brazil regarding soybean pollination by AHB.

I don't know much about the Brazilian researcher, Chiari, who has been doing these studies, however, I am impressed.

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This thread was an offshoot of the 'Industrial Beekeeper' thread.

When the yields of huge acreages of soybeans can be increased significantly by Honeybee pollination, that's an example of a market that can clearly support migratory pollination on an industrial scale.

I'm just pointing out the obvious.

It's not the current SOP though.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

WLC said:


> http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/4483...133_soybean_glycine_max_l_merrill_flowers.pdf
> 
> I found this Brazilian study examining Africanized Honeybee pollination of Two varieties of soybeans, one of them RR ready, to be helpful in understanding how far ahead the Brazilians are in this area of research.


You quote a meaningless study that involved caged 24 square meter areas of beans. There have been lots and lots and lots of US based studies on soybean pollination by honey bees, both caged and open. These studies go back 40 years or more. Caged studies have clearly been shown to be 100% meaningless in terms of the real world. As a beekeeper are you going to cage my 100 acre field of cleistogamous soybeans? And are you going to provide one colony per 24 square meters? Are you going to do this at a cost of say $20 per acre for a four week period plus 25% of the value of any yield enhancement over five bushels per acre? Value to be established based on the Chicago Board of Trade commodity price for beans on the day of harvest and yield of surrounding non pollinated fields. And by the way, I may need to spray roundup during pollination. I will give you 48 hour notice to take whatever steps you think you need to take to protect your bees from the spray. Rest assured, if I need to spray I am going to spray as some weeds are well proven to kill bean yield due to allelopathic actions. It will be in the contract. By the way that 100 acre field is over a mile and a half from the closest open water supply during soybean bloom. How are caged bees going to get water? Are you going to provide water for your bees daily? My beans are in Iowa and do not bear nectar. Not hot enough to bear nectar almost every day. Are you going to feed HFC to keep your colonies alive? Or do they come with a full deep of honey on them?

<snip for civility> you could have bothered to look up the US studies. They are dirt easy to find.

All open field studies show the same thing. Occasionally a minor yield improvement can be observed with large numbers of hives on soybeans. This has been shown to be due nearly 100% to improved self pollination and next to zero cross pollination in well controlled studies. The Brazilians are simply replowing old infertile ground to pump up their paper count in the literature. Lump it right in there with cold fusion and polywater. As a farmer I will not grow a crop that needs insect pollination and only produces a gross income per acre of perhaps $750 when prices of the commodity are unusually high. Land around my farm sells for as much as $8000 an acre now. I need a return on my investment.

By the way, the closest paved road to my farm is several miles. And all we have are dirt two tracks going from the road back to the fields. I doubt if any sane semi driver is going to take his truck down those two tracks. But I am sure you can rent a local driver, tractor and open hay rack to move your hives and caging materials from the truck to the fields and back from the fields to the truck at the end of pollination. I will bill you for any crop destroyed in the course of installation or removal.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Richard:

(I've got my degrees and LLC binder + ledger in view.)

There certainly are current U.S. studies showing increased soybean yields by Honeybee pollination (Milfont, 2013).

I've also seen the Erickson studies, though they're somewhat dated.

As I've noted, the Chiari studies from Brazil are interesting in their details.

I've also taken the time to look over 'Mississippi Soybean Variety Trials, 2012'.

I thought that Honeybee pollination could not only help increase yields in the lagging operations, but that they might just help some of the more productive operations break the 100 bu/acre barrier.

There's no information on proximity to existing Honeybee operations though.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

If the seed companies had varieties that produced nectar every year they would be heros to most beekeepers. We don't need to charge pollination fees. That's crazy. But if you could make a box or 2 of honey every year in the over farmed areas wouldn't that be awesome!


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

babybee said:


> If the seed companies had varieties that produced nectar every year they would be heros to most beekeepers. We don't need to charge pollination fees. That's crazy. But if you could make a box or 2 of honey every year in the over farmed areas wouldn't that be awesome!


That's the right way to think about it.

As long as both you and the soybean farmer benefit from the relationship, then it can start growing into a huge pollination market for beekeepers.

It's really just a matter of applying all of the research that shows that Honeybees not only increase soybeans yields (on certain varieties, under certain conditions), but that those colonies also become more productive themselves.

It should be a Win/Win relationship.

The Honeybee/soybean markets that are the first to do this on a large scale get a big competitive advantage as well.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Ooops.

Substitute Palmer, 2010 or Ray, 2010 as you wish.

I'm not going back to do editing since I've already made my points: research has shown that Honeybees can increase soybean yields, and beekeepers have reported soybean honey crops (productivity).

(read the rest of it anyway)

Since you've mentioned Brazil...

Soybean futures are at $10 a bushel largely because of projected increased soybean production in Brazil.

So, not only is Brazil increasing it's production, and driving down prices, it's also doing most of the research for increasing soybean yields via Honeybee pollination.

The U.S. does have the advantage of increased soybean production in the South, which also happens to be a major Honeybee producing region.

Furthermore, U.S. beekeepers already have much of the needed logistical support in place as a result of California almond pollination.

I doubt that Brazil has anything like the migratory pollinators that we have here.

Finally, I'm not sure, but I think that a lot of that equipment is pretty much available anyway right around the time that soybeans start to flower (R1). That should coincide with the summer dearth as well.


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## ga.beeman (Mar 29, 2009)

Bees go Hungary in Ga. Sitting on beans. No honey to be made no matter what color the bloom is. Would be nice if they developed one that did produce and be planted in ga.


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