# Is there a shortage of bees in the U.S.



## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I have never had a problem getting queens and as far as I know there is no shortage of packages either. I think the Australians and their importers would like you to think there is so they can continue to flood the market with their bees. I would check to see if there is a good enough market for this before you change over your operation...it is called doing a market survey...much better then going off hype.

Good luck.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

ACBEES said:


> . If there is a shortage, why do you think it exists.


Because.... they haven't tried Nutra-Bee, the best stuff since Miracle grow.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

The main beneficiary of the Australian packages is the almond industry. Those packages serve to depress the price of almond pollination. The queens and bees are junk, or worse. US beekeepers are under the bus. Right now there is an abundance of bees in California, lowballing and undercutting each other. Bees are being offered at $120 but growers are shopping for the $100.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I agree with both Alpha and Tom (and you too Keith, lol). There is no shortage of bees as far as I can tell. Australian packages wouldn't be an issue if not for almond pollination needs. The importers want to create the impression of a shortage to justify the imports. The growers want to create the impression of a shortage to lure more bees into the state to hopefully create more of a supply glut, thus lowering prices further. We all saw what happened a few years back when almond prices skyrocketed due to an unexpected shortage; bees came crawling out of the woodwork from every state in the union. Growers would love that huge influx again, but without the price raise.
Sheri


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

All that being said backyard beekeeping is quite the emerging trend. Local nucs might have quite a market. I know around here it's all about packages. I'd rather purchase nucs, myself.


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

So if the bee shortage is "trumped up", who is buying the bees and why?


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## Beowulf (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm buying bees because I'm just starting out this spring


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

ACBEES said:


> So if the bee shortage who is buying the bees and why?


The PPB that don't know what mites are.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Some are buying them to hold onto almond contracts they don't want to lose.
Sheri


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

There's not a shortage, just can't get mainland packages in Jan. or Feb. Its summer there when its winter here. 
Almonds bloom before we can produce the packages. Thats the misunderstanding.
I don't know if Hawaii could fill the void, for almonds, & the last minute beekeepers. Some pollinating beekeepers dump there bees after pollination, & buy new ones every spring. That practice might be Australia's big market.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tom G. Laury said:


> The main beneficiary of the Australian packages is the almond industry. Those packages serve to depress the price of almond pollination. The queens and bees are junk, or worse. US beekeepers are under the bus.


Has anyone heard about package producers in the Southeast buying colonies from CA, after almond pollination and then shaking packages out of them? And that these bees are from packages that were bought from Australia to fill empty or weak hives before going into almonds?

If this is being done, is it contributing to what we are calling CCD?

How viable are Australian queens and bees in our environment, in our hives, exposed to varroa for the first time?

What is the buzz about almond growers demanding that the border w/ Mexico should be opened if US beeks couldn't supply them w/ enuf hives? Afterall, AHBs are already here. So that excuse is less credible. Isn't it?

Sorry if some of these questions are off topic.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Those colonies started from the Aussies would not be in condition to shake out of. You know we have joked around here for a few years that the collapsing started or got worse just when they were first allowed in. Some folks claim success with them but all I have spoken with did not have that experience, more like after 12 months they are not alive. One beekeeper going through his colonies yesterday found that the ones marked A for Aus qs were the deadouts while the NWCs were just dandy. Of course if there was a reciprocal demand in Australia for shook bees at the end of our summer, their protocol would not allow importation. 

I wish people would quit bringing up this Mexican bee thing! There are plenty of bees in the US, but it's much more expensive to operate. Forcing down pollination fees is the name of the game, not assuring adequate supply. Variation on the theme: "I'll just get them somewhere else". On an international scale. Chinese honey and Mexican & Australian bees who needs you?


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

My point exactly. I'm new at this, but everything I read points to our U.S. beekeeping industry has enough bees and resources to provide all the bees we need at the needed times without importing from other countries and risking disease/parasite importation as well. Seems to me the importation of bees is more an effort to "back door" U.S. beeks and drive down pollination prices.

In view of this and as a new beek, is it recommended I incorporate managing my bees in a way to sell packages and nucs? Another question. I'm in the panhandle of Texas. Are my packages/nucs going to be labeled as possibly being "africanized" by a terrorized buying public? 

To be honest, I haven't seen an africanized colony yet(going on three years) but I'm always aware they exist in some places in various degrees. I picked up a free colony two years ago from a local guy who hadn't worked the hive in five years. The bees had turned feral and were healthy bees, but weren't any more aggressive than working my other colonies. There was never an outpouring of the colony and mass attack characterized by africanization nor the constant swarming behavior.


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

There is always a shortage feb-april. Queens and packages cannot be had until late april/early may but are needed in late feb/march in the south. There is an abundance of bees from june-aug.


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

Is there really a shortage of bees in Feb-April? Or is it more of a problem with people not wanting to buy bees from Gulf Coast states for fear of getting "africanized" bees? The central Texas bees I'm buying this year will be ready anytime after March 1st. I suspect you could get all the bees you wanted out of the Rio Grande Valley in February. Then there is FL and southern CA.

As an earlier post mentioned, there is also an opportunity to get bees from Hawaii.


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

I am not sure why, I just know that when I need queens in late march everyone I call says they are sold out until may. I also know that most people here looking for packages cannot get them until late april at the earliest. If someone knows sources out west who can get bees to the east in early spring then we'd love to hear about it over here. I know one bee club in GA who is buying bees and queens from Australia.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've never had them turn down my order for as many packages as I wanted. On the other hand there is certainly a market for bees. I sell all I can produce...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

ACBEES said:


> Is there really a shortage of bees in Feb-April? Or is it more of a problem with people not wanting to buy bees from Gulf Coast states for fear of getting "africanized" bees?
> 
> As an earlier post mentioned, there is also an opportunity to get bees from Hawaii.


If I wanted to make splits in SC in February, as friends of mine did last year, where would you suggest that I get queens from. Hawaiian sources get booked up well in advance, from what i have heard.

And what is the quality of the earliest queens from southern sources? How long have they had drones?

At the ABF Conference Larry Conners said that I should start grafting queen when I see the first purple eyed drones in my colonies. I didn't get to ask him how many such drones should I see first. You have to have lots of good drones to have well mated queens.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

In the larger picture, we’ve all probably seen the USDA’s statistics on how many fewer hives exist today than did sixty or so years ago. If their numbers are anywhere near right and if the demand for pollinating hives is truly climbing, then if a shortage doesn’t exist today…..it soon will. Having said that, I’d guess that there are enough hives of bees available in the states…if the price is right. But how long will it remain practical or sustainable to truck bees from the east coast to CA for almonds?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

But consider this: How important is it to keep that money here in the USA instead of it outflowing to Australia or Mexico? Over 1 million colonies at X pollination fee. Think of the financial stability that provides to domestic beekeepers; and most of it gets spent quite quickly afterward, too.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Tom G. Laury said:


> How important is it to keep that money here in the USA instead of it outflowing to Australia or Mexico?


I couldn't agree more. My point is that the current system of migratory beekeeping and pollination will collapse under its own weight unless the players can come up with a viable, long term plan. Importing bees from Australia...even without the issues of imported pests....won't be practical long term. While the growers and beekeepers continue to create temporary patches, I don't see anyone addressing the long term. The number of US commercial beekeepers is in apparent decline while the demand for pollination climbs. If we hope to keep the money in the US....we will have to find a way to break that pattern.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Ok here is a dumb question but....

Aren't there enough different crops in California to sustain a large amount of permanent residence hives there, enough to pollinate almonds and then be moved reasonable distances to various other CA crops depending on the season? In other words, _why don't beekeepers in CA just run the business of providing bees for all the CA crops?_ I guess I'm just missing the obvious basic business/financial reason for all this moving of bees all over the world at great expense, while stressing the bees to the point where they become useless.
Tell me why this is done.

With the climbing cost of oil and gas, it seems so wasteful to be trucking/flying/shipping so many thousands of bee hives back and forth over continents and oceans.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Omie said:


> I guess I'm just missing the obvious basic business/financial reason for all this moving of bees all over the world at great expense, while stressing the bees to the point where they become useless.


I'll leave the CA beeks to address the local pollination opportunities, but just say that many resident CA beeks head to the Dakotas for honey. There is not enough forage in CA to support the number of colonies needed for almonds.

As for stressing the bees, just the opposite is true.
I am not sure of your winters but our sub zero 2 months here in Wisconsin isn't exactly _un_stressful. 
Our bees coming off almonds are much stronger in April than overwintered ones here in Wisconsin. The early warm temps and abundant pollen give our bees about a month's head start. The basic business/financial reason for all the moving is the 1) pollination check, 2)the head start for honey production, 3)having so many bees we _need_ to shake packages and make nucs, which we sell. 
Sheri


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

beemandan said:


> While the growers and beekeepers continue to create temporary patches, I don't see anyone addressing the long term. The number of US commercial beekeepers is in apparent decline while the demand for pollination climbs.


the aging population in the U.S. will solve the problem, as us old people eat a lot less than we did when youngert:


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## greg watkevich (Jan 23, 2010)

Yes, Bees are in a shortage and are in a difficult time. Besides disease, bees are over stressed. These days we are shipping bees all over the country because of the lack of bees in the area to pollinate crops. We have bees working from season to season, year round. We ship them to CA for pollinating almond trees in the early early spring then we ship them to Maine to pollinate blueberries, and citrus crops in the south, etc. in the winter. Bees are over stressed and then left subject to disease. And, we wonder why bees are dissappearing or dying. Luckily we have some folks raising bee stock to help the process, but this has it's own set of problems. Another topic. Cheers, Greg Watkevich Protect your bees.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

greg watkevich said:


> We have bees working from season to season, year round. We ship them to CA for pollinating almond trees in the early early spring then we ship them to Maine to pollinate blueberries, and citrus crops in the south, etc. in the winter. Bees are over stressed and then left subject to disease. And, we wonder why bees are dissappearing or dying.


Obviously some of you don't realize that a worker bee has a short life span and they are constantly replaced with new bees hatching. It may be the same boxes going crop to crop but its not the same bees.:doh:


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

Beeslave said:


> Obviously some of you don't realize that a worker bee has a short life span and they are constantly replaced with new bees hatching. It may be the same boxes going crop to crop but its not the same bees.:doh:


:lpf::lpf: those poor pine boxes, I heard the cypress boxes handle the stress better.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

greg watkevich said:


> ...then we ship them to Maine to pollinate blueberries, and citrus crops in the south, etc. in the winter. Bees are over stressed and then left subject to disease. And, we wonder why bees are dissappearing or dying. Luckily we have some folks raising bee stock to help the process, but this has it's own set of problems....


53,000 colonies are brought into Maine to pollinate blueberries. Not nearly enough local bees here in our state to do this task without importing bees. 

The problem of disappearing bees did not begin with transporting bees for pollination. 

Wayne


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

waynesgarden said:


> The problem of disappearing bees did not begin with transporting bees for pollination.
> 
> Wayne


It did not start with the use of Imidacloprid either but try convincing many beekeepers of that fact.


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## greg watkevich (Jan 23, 2010)

Ok, I'm sure the pine boxes can handle the stress, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that bees are mysteriously dissappearing and the reason is still unclear. We all know that bees are the workhorse of our nation pollinating crops all across the USA. In the course of transporting bees there are several factors that might possibly be contributing to bees dissappearing, that include environmental triggers, like weather condition, pesticides, toxins, disease, parasitic mites, genetic diversity ,etc. These can all be contributing factors to the loss of bees nationwide. Scientists have been able to figure out the bee genome and now know that pesticides are detoxified in the main region for a bee's immune system. Possibly a contributor to CCD Colony collapse disorder. I certainly don't have the answer but am aware that mass transportaion of bees exposes entire hives to a multitude of different factors that more than likely are contributing factors. Just my thoughts.
greg watkevich


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

I live in NE Florida and as a kid I can remember having to be careful running around barefoot(which I did all summer) because there was always bees working the clover out in the yard. I have not saw a honey bee in quite a long time. I am an avid gardner and do lawn maintance part time. So I am outside a lot. I know this is not a scientific study but, it is part of what made me want to get into bees. Whether there is a shortage or not I don't know but, there are a bunch of people getting into it for the same reason. Most prob. want be doing it in a few years but, you never know. Short term anyway I see a strong market for bees.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

I too remember lawns covered with clover, honeybees, dandelions, and other short wildflowers as a kid.
Now the lawns are sterile, they have no flowers. Because everyone seems to like to spread lawn 'fertilizer' that has weed killer/herbicides in it to kill off anything resembling dandelions or clover. I wish they wouldn't, they are killing creatures in my world too. Just in the past 5 years, I see no more mockingbirds, mourning doves, grosbeaks, and orioles around here, they used to be all around the neighborhood 5 years ago. Maybe they ate one too many weedkiller/roundup stuffed worms, grasshoppers, or grass seeds. 
We are poisoning and destroying as many living things as we possibly can, it seems.
Perhaps one day robots will be mowing perfect plastic astroturf lawns in a dead world.

I'm not sure why, but when we moved to our current house 6 years ago, our one crab apple tree would be covered with _thousands_ of honeybees every Spring for the first 3 years we lived here- what a sight to behold....and the humming!! But alas, the past three years in a row I have not seen more than a couple dozen honeybees at a time on that tree in bloom, and no more honeybees in our garden at all (except for the month when my new hive was flying this past November.)


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Omie said:


> ...no more honeybees in our garden at all (except for the month when my new hive was flying this past November.)


We hear this again and again from folks when we add a beeyard near them. They are now seeing bees when they haven't seen them in a while, or their raspberries are so much better pollinated, etc. Adding just one hive can make a big difference. Many gardeners are discovering that if they want bees in their gardens _they_ need to become beekeepers. :applause:
Sheri


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

one of the reasons I started raising bees again was that I only saw one bee in my yard the previous season... I don't believe there are any feral bees in my area.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_Adding just one hive can make a big difference. Many gardeners are discovering that if they want bees in their gardens they need to become beekeepers._

I'm a firm believer the easiest way to double your garden production is to get a hive of bees.


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## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> We hear this again and again from folks when we add a beeyard near them. They are now seeing bees when they haven't seen them in a while, or their raspberries are so much better pollinated, etc. Adding just one hive can make a big difference. Many gardeners are discovering that if they want bees in their gardens _they_ need to become beekeepers. :applause:
> Sheri


This is why i got started in beekeeping. I wasnt getting nearly the yield on produce and fruits I was 5-10 years ago. Added 3 hives near the garden and whammo, loads of veggies and fruits again!


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