# I want to attempt to attract/catch a swarm....



## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Hang it up in a tree 8 to 15 feet up. If you have any old dark brood comb put a little of that in there too. Some years I catch a lot, others not so much.


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

brazosdog02 said:


> Its too late to order bees locally without shipping and I want to attempt to attract some. I have an empty medium super, with undrawn frames/foundation and I can get some lemongrass oil. Is this all I need? Id like to do this on the cheap, otherwise, it negates its purpose!


I caught a swarm last year with the only trap I put out. It was a 5 frame deep nuc with empty frames and a chunk of burr comb in the bottom, since I did not have any drawn frames at the time. I used a q-tip to paint a line of lemon grass oil around the inside perimeter, about 1 inch from the bottom. It sat at ground level for 3-4 weeks without activity, so I then placed it about 3 feet off the ground. It sat out for about 3 more weeks before I figured I should at least put some foundation into it. The swarm came in exactly as I was carrying the new frames to the nuc. I'll always remember that. The queen landed on one of the frames before I installed it. Once the frames were in, it looked like the nuc was acting like a little vacuum cleaner; the bees just funneled inside. It was a smaller swarm, about 1-1.5 lb.

So a nuc with foundationless frames and LGO, mounted up off of the ground had been scouted and I just happened to arrive at the right time. I'm now trying to decide if I hit a grand slam on my first at-bat, and whether I'm bound to be disappointed from here on out  One thing's for sure: I am setting out more traps this year!


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

With the winter we are having, I am guessing swarms are going to be in short supply in the midwest. Brazos, I see you are in Texas. You might want to check around with some local beeks or extension types and see what the situation is with Africanized bees in your area if you have not done so already. Those "cheap" bees could get pretty expensive.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

I have not heard much in the way of Africanized bees here. Im on the gulf coast.

I do not have a nuc box, so I will use a medium super on a screened bottom board and set it up off the ground 8 feet or so and see what happens. Should I leave the opening open or use an entrance reducer or what? Ill put some LGO on a napkin...a couple of drops...or paint it in a line around the inside a little...and see what happens.

If I were to catch Africanized bees, is it too big a deal since Im ALWAYS suited up? If they are aggressive I will know it and if I walk away from the hive they should go back in right? Then Ill know I need to re-queen.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

hilreal said:


> With the winter we are having, I am guessing swarms are going to be in short supply in the midwest. Brazos, I see you are in Texas. You might want to check around with some local beeks or extension types and see what the situation is with Africanized bees in your area if you have not done so already. Those "cheap" bees could get pretty expensive.


Not necessary, the weather has been cold but not that bad, everyone I know hasn't lost any hives yet. Spring and early simmer weather will determine swarming...so far we've had plenty of rain here in the summer/fall to produce a bounty of seeds, good winter rains, so if anything should be above normal if spring cooperates.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

Twice I put out boxes that had screened bottom boards and not gotten swarms in them. I get about 5 swarms per season in bait boxes. Not sure if it was the screen they didn't like, but I won't use them anymore. Also, like others have said, foundationless is preferred by the bees. I usually have them a few feet off the ground only because I want to be able to lift them once the swarm moves in and start building their home. I use a frame of drawn black comb, and lemongrass oil. Reduced entrance.


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## Slee (Jun 22, 2009)

He is my two cents.
If at all possible find where a feral hive is. I know of two trees with bees in them. If you cannot, a good place is around open fields. 
Use equipment that you have had bees in. Bees are attracted to use equipment
Use lemon grass, and refresh it from time to time.
if you catch a swarm in one of your boxes remove the box to your yard, then put another box right back in the same spot. You maybe able to catch a secondary swarm.


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## TxGypsy (Mar 17, 2012)

brazosdog02 said:


> I have not heard much in the way of Africanized bees here. Im on the gulf coast.
> 
> I do not have a nuc box, so I will use a medium super on a screened bottom board and set it up off the ground 8 feet or so and see what happens. Should I leave the opening open or use an entrance reducer or what? Ill put some LGO on a napkin...a couple of drops...or paint it in a line around the inside a little...and see what happens.
> 
> If I were to catch Africanized bees, is it too big a deal since Im ALWAYS suited up? If they are aggressive I will know it and if I walk away from the hive they should go back in right? Then Ill know I need to re-queen.


I'd avoid a bottom screen on a trap hive. Bees like dark. 

Sometimes Africanized bees will pursue you for quite a ways. My very first hives were Africanized and I was too green to know any better. Fortunately I had made my own beesuit and with a beginners fear and apprehension....I made it well! Yes, just requeen. Might want to see if you can figure out a way to confine or kill any of the Africanized drones like with hardware cloth big enough for the workers to get through but not the drones. You wouldn't want them mating with any of the queens in your area.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

You may also try to place an ad on craigslist advertising free swarm removal. I'm sure you will get a few calls.


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

I caught a swarm last year with a bait hive. It's a brilliant way to start.
You need a box with 20-40 litre volume. I think a nuc (or nuc sized) would work. This doesn't have to be a bought brood or super or anything like it. It can be something you knock up in the shed from old ply or osb board. Remember it hasn't got to be able to overwinter. It is better to used brood size frames so you can transfer straight in and leave the bees with all the work they have already done.
Rub all around the inside of the box with beeswax. If you have some old brood comb from a trusted source then this is a brilliant lure to include in one of the frames. 
Buy some lemon grass oil, fairly cheap stuff, put some on a cotton wool ball in a zip lock plastic bag (mostly closed) to reduce the evaporation speed. Put a few drops on the bait hive entrance.
Place the hive between 1 and 5 metres from the ground with the entrance facing south. Best placement is somewhere near a source of : water, propolys and nectar. 
Finally, the more you put out the more likely you are to catch.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Everything so far is right in line with my experiences....except the heighth requirement.

In my increasingly reluctance to climb ladders, with my fear of laying in the woods until the deer hunters find my corpse next fall, I've gone to hanging my traps about 6 feet (roughly shoulder high) so I put up and remove my traps with both feet planted on solid ground.

I have had some remote yards with winter losses. I make a mental note (first mistake) to come back, pick up the dead out, and clean out the dead bees, and set it back up for a split. By the time I get back to this yard as it comes up in my rotation of outyards (second mistake), a swarm has taken up residence. No lures, just a lived-in smell and old comb. And don't get me wrong, I like the lure. LGO is fine, but there is something better and cheaper on the market.

Grant
Jackson, MO https://www.createspace.com/4106626


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

Agreed height isn't a big deal and you should certainly place it in such a way that it is easy to retrieve, remember it will be heavier when full of bees.
Research has shown 1 to 5 metres works quite well. It is certainly a good idea to have it off the ground to reduce tampering (by animals and humans), and having it at a height where anyone walking by cannot unintentionally get in the flying line of the bees is sensible.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

I've used swarm lure that was ordered from Mann lake & it worked real well. As others has said.I did better with it hanging about head high.Although I did catch some lower.
Main thing is,Make sure there is bees around. LOL,
The swarm lure did smell like lemons,Was wondering if the lure is any better than just the LGO,Has anyone ever compared the two?


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## homesteader824 (Jun 9, 2012)

I also bought the swarm lure from Mann Lake, before I heard about using lemongrass oil. I am now wondering if I should use the lure and lemongrass oil together, or if they could somehow conflict and not be effective. For that matter, they could work together and be more effective, I just don't know. Does anyone have a recommendation?


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Chemguy,I enjoy your success!


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## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

An 8 frame medium hive box is about 20L by my calculation. Would nailing together two of those with a bottom board and a cover and putting it up in a tree be a reasonable way to try this?


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## JohnBruceLeonard (Jul 7, 2015)

I also agree that height is probably not _necessary _to catching swarms, based on what I have seen of the preference of feral honey bees at least in my area. There are two feral colonies in the property next door to mine that have built their nests at the base of the bole of two olive trees, amongst their roots, essentially underground. My neighbor tells me this is common practice with them; they've evidently been at it for years now with trees all over his property.

John


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I trapped about 4 using old comb, & swarm commander lure last summer.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Last year was our first year trapping swarms so maybe it was just beginners luck but 12 traps caught 12 swarms. One caught four and some caught none. We used deeps with plywood tops and bottoms screwed on. We used the round metal entrance disks from Kelley's which were very convenient. Some old comb, a shot of swarm commander and some propolis rubbed on the inside. Only one was mounted above head height. I would also add to use all ten frames in the trap so after the catch it's a simple matter of transferring the frames and not doing a cut out. I only put 4 or 5 frames in a few thinking the bees would start on them and sure enough they built perpendicular to the frames on the roof. I had a 5 frame deep nuc trap out that got lots of scouting but never got a swarm, maybe to small? I also had a fiber pot trap out that never got any attention that I saw. We tried to put the traps on lone big trees in fields by water or at least on the edge of the forest/field, right of ways, clearnings etc. You could build them out of whatever scrap wood you can get your hands on just make them so they hold frames. Good luck it's a ton of fun.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

My brother caught one on his back porch last spring, they found and moved into some spare equipment waiting to go into the bee yard.

I don't recommend leaving good drawn comb out for that purpose though.

And use a deep, they want that much room and will reject a nuc in favor of a hole in a tree that's larger.

Peter


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

There is actually a lot of research on catching swarms. HERE is Tom Seeley's (Et al) paper on catching swarms. HTH 

I use drawn comb that has been sprayed with Bt a. to keep the wax moths in check.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I had 12 traps out last year and got no bites. I am thinking this year of mixing a little squirt bottle with water and lemon grass oil to make it easier to refreshen the bait. Last year I put a q-tip inside a plastic bag and didn't refreshen except maby a q-tip reached through the entrance and touched to the inside of the box. I had the traps out around march the 15th and had some interest while putting them out but never seen a bee near one of the traps the rest of the year. The bees where working the trees by a couple of the traps really hard but I didn't draw any scouts except before the flow started. I only refreshend the trap maby once a month. I was afraid of getting too much lemon grass oil. I think this year I am going to go the other way and spray a bit in the trap really often.

I read all the swarm threads for advice and doing it like I plan is not what I have seen but I didn't catch anything last year and have to try something. Anybody tried refreashing there traps with a sqirt bottle with a water lemongrass mix?
Thanks
gww


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>I think this year I am going to go the other way and spray a bit in the trap really often.

I caught fifty last year and never refreshed the LGO. Caught one with no combs or fresh LGO after moving the first catch out into a full size box.


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## CardsBees (May 14, 2013)

In addition excellent advice given, if you know of a tree where someone has ever seen a swarm to have gone, use that tree. Bees will often choose the same tree to swarm to.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Oddfrank


> I caught fifty last year and never refreshed the LGO. Caught one with no combs or fresh LGO after moving the first catch out into a full size box.


I watched a bunch of your vidios. What did you decide on the swarm commander compared to the lemon grass oil? I don't have comb so I am just using lemon grass oil. I noticed in your vidios that you are in a very consintrated area with bees. I hve seen tramendous amounts of bees working the trees by my house and also put out a cup of 1 to1 sugar water at my house and also at my mom and dads house nine miles away. I did this before the flow started just to see what would happen and plenty of bees showed up for the party but I don't know who around me has hives. I will try again this year but have not figured out the secret code and don't know the secret hand shake yet when it comes to swarms. I will keep trying though.
gww


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>What did you decide on the swarm commander compared to the lemon grass oil?

I placed two traps at many sites one baited with SCL and the other with LGO. I found that usually the SCL lure trap caught the first swarm but the LGO trap also got filled. I always use as many black combs in a trap as I can allot. Last season I filled outer slots with Frames filled with Ritecell foundation and replaced them with frames filled with wax foundation after the swarm moved in. In my area bees do not draw out plastic without feeding and will with more ease draw out wax foundation.
As I had caught hundreds of swarms with LGO before adding SCL to my arsenal, I feel that LGO at a fraction of the price is adequate but since the $28 spent on SCL will pay for itself with one nice swarm catch I will continue my comparison experiments between the two.
I think less is more in applying LGO or SCL. In the same way that a person wearing too much perfume or cologne is off putting, I feel a bait hive should not be over soaked with lure. I use a few drops of LGO once and two Squirts of SCL once at the time I set the trap.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Odfrank
I had cut some comb into 2 inch squares and rubber banded it in my foundationless frames. I did catch several mice during the season and in most cases they chewed a hole where the frame rest are to get in easier. That kinda sucked as I was also intending to use the traps as my hive bodies. Still do after some patching. I had two comb given to me that I split between 12 hive bodies. I did do the less is more on the lemon grass oil but got no interest once the flow started. I will probly mix it up and experment a bit more this year. I will also no longer be putting the traps way up in the air as they are too heavy and auckward to get back down. I will keep watching what you are doing and saying till I crack the code. 
Cheers


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## ljbee (Apr 27, 2015)

When do you set the swarm traps out? Do you leave them out all year?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

ljbee said:


> When do you set the swarm traps out? Do you leave them out all year?


You set them out during swarm season and bring them in so that the combs are not wax moth damaged. Most of mine get filled, moved to their new home and put into full size boxes.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I think bees look for new homes before they swarm as a rule, and will only hang in a tree or bush for a short time to reorganize once they leave the original hive if they have found one already. If they do not, they can hang for several days, and in rare cases actually make comb and take up residence. That means you need to have your traps out well before the swarms actually start to appear.

There is some reason they land where they do, you need to figure out what attracts them and put traps in those locations, usually fairly close to the original hive, although I also believe they tend to fly some distance -- my hive that swarmed ended up at my neighbors, about a quarter mile away. 

Peter


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I leave the swarm traps in the back of the truck and place an add in the local craig'slist or bee removal sites. THEN, I wait for the calls to roll in (and they do). No driving to the swarm trap site, no wasted time, no wasted fuel, etc.


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## ljbee (Apr 27, 2015)

I've been looking in the woods for beehives in hollow trees and such when the temps above 50. I don't really see any "wild" honeybees around here. Just mine around the house. I just checked craigslist for "bee removal" in my area and no search results for my area so that would probably bee a good option.

Now that I know my bees have mites and I have an OAV I'm more interested in catching swarms. Supposing I catch a swarm, is it good practice to keep them in like a quarantine yard to see if any disease will show up and if so how long?


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