# Pollination? or Honey Production?



## Bsweet (Apr 9, 2010)

Mark, I'm not an old hand at this but.
336 cols. @ $55. ea = $18,480.00
minus $4000. for 50 nucs = $14,480
336 hives only have to make 25 lbs of honey ea. to make up for that $14,480.00
And then theres the transport cost of $672.00 round trip so now we are down to $13,808.00 or 23 lbs per hive to make the same $
So can your bees make a med super if you and they stay home and not move around?


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Wait a minute...how do you figure you lost money on this deal. Lets see...you were cut by 32 colonies that you would have rented for $55 ea ($1760) but you sold them 50 nucs at $80 ($4000) so in fact this year you made $2240 more than if you had just brought in the normal amount of colonies. The other question I have is do you have yards for all your 336 cols on something that would give you a honey crop? Usually, guys who do strictly pollination move from one crop to another throughout the season. I don't see how you can make it worthwhile on just one pollination rotation. If you can use the apples to build up and then move them to a honey production area you will have the best of both worlds.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I've been telling you this for years. If you pollinate apples at $55 you're losing money...at one pollination per year... Especially if you keep bees in a productive area like the St. Lawrence valley. I figure I lost a medium (35-40 lbs) of honey by pollinating. There's your pollination fee. You also lose a nuc in the deal...losing the strength of the colony...and how much is that worth? And the bees don't winter as well. How much is that worth..another 10-15% loss?

I gave up a $12000 pollination contract to raise bees instead. I can make that lost pollination income back with the sales of less than 100 wintered nucs. My bees are healthier and more productive. I don't have to work day and night. My bees don't get exposed to the orchard chemicals. I don't have to move my bees to and from the orchard, to and from South Carolina, or to and from anywhere. 

But you already know this Mark because I've been telling you for years.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Mr. Palmer, what you say is true, but is it possible to do with commercially available stock that is not your own? I would bet that you have spent alot of time and effort over the years to develop a bee that works in your situation. It is most likely not the same bee that an individual would purchase in a commercially available package. I would guess that your bees winter well, and build up quickly in the spring, and may be more adept at foraging on cooler days. 

Mu point is that there are many pieces to the puzzle that may be needed to duplicate your success. These pieces are not always available on a commercial level, so a period of time may be needed to achieve your results. 

Or I may be totally wrong....

Crazy Roland


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Most pollination I have been in is like skipping over a dollar to pick up a dime. The almonds are lucrative and relatively easy on the bees but every thing else I have been in takes a toll far beyond the monetary compensation. But it is much easier to plop some boxes down and collect a few shekels than it is to produce honey.


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

That is if you can make honey, record rain fall in ca, no honey this year!


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I do understand that, and my bees are located in a good honey production area. But, so are Mark's bees. The St. Lawrence valley area is historically one of the best white honey/comb honey areas around.


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## Sweet to the Soul (Sep 1, 2010)

Why not let the customer make the decision for you. Raise your price to the point it is worth your while. If they accept then continue pollination, if not then move to honey production.

I have one pollination contract (only for 25 hives) on apples. I told them I needed $75 per hive to justify my time, investment, and gas (100 mile drive each way). Customer did not hesitate at price. This was my second year with them and they said they would see me again next year. I know of another beekeeper in Ohio who charges $95 per hive. I won't be raising my prices like that, but it would also not be worth my time and investment for $55.

I am by no means an expert, just sharing my situation and opinion. I know there are others including yourself with way more experience in pollination and beekeeping.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Hey Michael,
Hypothetically speaking of course, what price would get you back into pollinating w/ some of your hives?

I have thought of going the raise the price route, but, it has been hard to get the price up as high as I have. The other provider has a price $7.00 under mine, tho he charges 10 or 20 $ more for nucs than I do. Plus he has way more hives and help. It's pretty much me and the Trucker.

So, let's say I loose about a medium super of honey to pollination, say 40lbs, that, at $1.75/lb, would be a loss of $70.00. Seems like that aughht to be my base. Then I should add time and transpertation costs? Anybody out there getting paid for their time in this business?

If I loose a shallow, then it's a lose of $52.50. Just under my current price.

I'm going to have to pay close attention to what I get for honey off of the hives that didn't go to apples this year.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I charged $50/ hive for apples this year... bees came back worse than they went in [too much rain] and the apples were probably not pollinated well because of it. I won't take that low a contract in the future... $75 will probably be my base charge if I do it at all. I'm getting $65 for blueberries this year. Will probably raise that $10 next year.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> I have thought of going the raise the price route, but, it has been hard to get the price up as high as I have. The other provider has a price $7.00 under mine, tho he charges 10 or 20 $ more for nucs than I do. Plus he has way more hives and help. It's pretty much me and the Trucker.


Hi Mark,
This is more general advice than specific to your situation...but it fits well.

The only way to actually negotiate is to be ready (and willing) to walk away from the table. The only way to get there is to have other options.

Recently, we were offered an opportunity that would be difficult for us to fulfill. I was about to say no, but instead, decided on a number that I would feel good about...it was high enough that I was pretty sure it wouldn't fly...it did.

So, start looking at some more good permanent honey producing locations so that if you do walk away from the table you know exactly where you are headed. Negotiate with the attitude that you don't care which way it goes (which you can only do if you already have a backup plan).

Then, if they do go for the pollination contract at a price that is good for you, you can avoid selling the nucs, and _still_ bring some strong hives to the new locations you scouted out as a backup plan 

...if you can raise your honey price at the same time, then you...

win, win, and win.

We've got a similar issue with queen rearing....a good enough market and price for our honey that the idea of setting up mating nucs so that we can sell mated queens isn't feasible (unless we charge really $$$$ for the mated queens).

deknow


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks Dean. Sounds like good advice. I am scouting new, potentially more productive yds.

Now, how to figure out the Poll. Price. I already have an idea of a nuc price. $125.00


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

I must say, that the one area of the market I have not been able to penetrate is pollination. Not sure what the secret handshake is, but I cannot seem to make it there yet. My hive numbers are increasing, and like everyone else, I am looking to stretch the dollar. But as I get excited about the possibilities, I read information from here and see the road ahead is wrought with obstacles as well as opportunity. My hat is off to those of you who have mastered this area of the business. I sell my honey retail at $10.0 a pound and it is doing quite well. I sell packages and Nucs and have no shortage of customers. Perhaps someday I will tap this segment of the market. 

Jerry Mattiaccio


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Jerry,

you might be better off not getting into the pollination game. I had to feed some of my bees on the apples due to the constant rain. Farmer and I had some problems, he wanted to spray fungicide while my bees were in the field. I have a contract that states no spray and 48 hours to remove bees if you're going to spray. He didn't want me to pull my bees. Long story short, bees stayed and no spray. But he told me he would never sign a contract like that again and I told him no sign, no bees. I don't think my bees build very well in pollination and I'm concerned that there are long-term effects from all the residual chemicals in the ground/on the trees. I'm raising my prices next year and doubt many will pay that amount for bees. I've located some very good yards and I'm going to concentrate on overwintered nucs at a premium price and honey. I would love to get $10/lb. for honey. I think you're better off out of the pollination business.


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