# Ag commissioner of Ventura county forces bee hive to move! Help needed



## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

Letter received by a beekeeper friend yesterday from Ventura County AG Commisioner

He is registered beekeeper and my hives are on the location.


Here it goes: 

You are out of compliance with the following Ventura County Ordinance which states:

8107-2.6.1 - An occupied apiary shall be located or maintained a safe distance from an urbanized area.

For the purpose of this section, an urbanized area is defined as an area containing three or more dwellings units per acre. A "safe distance" shall be determined after investigation by the agriculture commissioner and shall be consistent with Sec. 8107-2.6.2. Decisions of the Agriculture Commissioner may be appealed pursuant to Sec. 8111-7.2c. of this chapter.

The Ventura County Agriculture Commissioners (VCAC) staff witnessed on January 13, 2015 extremely high bee activity in the adjacent neighborhood which is identified as the " Sadonas" . The VCAC office has determined that your bees are not at a "safe distance" from this urbanized area. The bees are to be moved from their current location as soon as possible and re-located to another location which will maintain a "safe distance" from any urbanized area while meeting all county ordinances and state regulations which pertain to apiculture.


OK what I am looking for is anyone in CA that has had a letter from a county ag commissioners office requiring bees be moved based on ordinences.

We have a Right to Farm ordinance in this county.

Some details, hives are over 2500 feet from nearest road on a open range cattle ranch, and yes feed & water are provided

We believe the AG commissioner is setting a precedent with this decision whit is arbitrary and can lead to many other arbitry decision not based on law. If a safe distance from an urbanized area if greater than 2500 feet , about 90 % of all bee hive in county are in violation.

Larry Pender


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

[QU.OTE=LSPender;1206821]
We have a Right to Farm ordinance in this county.
r[/QUOTE]

Larry, have the bees been there for the last 3 years?


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

No, this is new apiary location on large ranch that does have many existing apiaries , these hives moved in late October


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I know when I registered some urban hives, they had to 'ok' the location as long as it wasn't close to high pedestrian traffic etc... so it sounds like it falls in those guidelines and that big grey area of who interprets safe distances. I wonder what the 'high' bee activity means and why it was noticed.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Larry, I could be wrong but, I believe the right to farm their's a 3 year rule. I will see if I can find where I read this.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

May sound like a dumb idea but I would immediately move them, document it with video and witnesses, wait a week, contact the supervisor and ask for a second appraisal from another official, if they look at the bee activity at the housing area and find too much bee activity, then show them the proof of moving them and appeal. I was in law enforcement most of my life, they didn't just happen upon the bee activity, they've had some old lady ( or man ) burning up their telephone complaining, someone that saw the killer bee "documentary." I'm not saying go and pour a bottle of honey on their driveways, that would be dishonest. Sounds like a lot of work but you're going to have to move them anyway.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

If they are on land that is zoned ag tell them to pound sand!!!!!!!!!

Are you able to enlist the help of the cattle guy or the dude paying the property taxes on the land? 

If they get one over on the beek the next thing the sad folks in the housing complex will ask for is scented diapers for all the cows roaming the same property.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

How many hives do you have on that farm? How many hives do others have on the farm? Did and other beeks in the area get eviction notices? Are there any hives in the adjacent urban area?


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

How far away are the, "Sedona's" they are referring to?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

How close are the hives to the nearest dwelling of someone who might cause a problem?


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Honey-4-All said:


> If they get one over on the beek the next thing the sad folks in the housing complex will ask for is scented diapers for all the cows roaming the same property.


Now, there's a mental picture I will never be able to get rid of.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

catch a drone tie it to a thread with the other end fastened to a safety pin. Wear it into the AG office on your shirt and tell them you raise stingless bees. Let them pet one and explain that they must me someone else's or wild bees. Dollar to Doughnuts they know nothing about bees LOL 



Edit: please note the purple text indicating sarcasm


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Do you know what the extremely high bee activity is that they are referring to? Is there a pool there?


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

Apuary is 1/2 mile from nearest dwelling. 3/4 mile from complaining house. Bees are visiting none native plants & trees that are blooming. Extreme bee activity means one bee flew by & they see bees on blooming flowers.

Appreciate the feed back, but would really like to find somene who has had this happen to.

I have engaged Farm Bureau & county supervisors. The main issue is right to farm law passed in 1997 in county. Full of great stuff , then one line " at discression of AG commissioner" 
So an untrained person is setting a precedent that can effect all farming .

County has not answered what a safe distance is, but if 1/2 mile 90% plus of all bee locations are illegal


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

"I have engaged Farm Bureau & county supervisors. The main issue is right to farm law passed in 1997 in county. Full of great stuff , then one line " at discression of AG commissioner" 
So an untrained person is setting a precedent that can effect all farming ."

Exactly why NORTHERN California wants to form their own state. Most of the Southern part of Calif is clueless about real agriculture, and the way rural people live and work.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Although this has not happened to me because I am not a California resident the B.C. version of it has. Sounds like the Ag. commissioner has responded to a complaint. Legal precedents aside he needs to hear your version of events. I would suggest taking him to the complainers property and check it out for yourselves. Then take him to the bee yard so he has a feel for "safe distance", whatever that is.



Find out if the complaining party is an owner or renter. I always have troubles with the renters. Jokingly suggest that "We would not want the renters making the rules for the owners now would we?"
Definitely do not move the bees before you go to pollination in 2 weeks, reason being it was "as soon as possible". You could invoke the delay on account of the friend having received the letter. You could also point out that you would have moved them, but the only other place you could have moved them too, were also about 1/2 mile to 3/4 mile distance from urban dwellings. This could by you time until next year. By then who knows complainer could have moved or any other possibility.

The Ag commissioner also needs to hear that he is lumping 90% of California bees in the same boat as your so called offending bees. He surely does not want to irritate the beekeepers and all their tax paying almonds growers now does he? My point is the Ag commissioner needs to be your friend not you enemy.

My 2 cents.

Jean-Marc


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Locate all the hives that you do not own in your area that may be in violation and throw them under the bus also.😳


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I would want to know who made the complaint and under what conditions. I would also want to know how they were able to identify the offending bees as those residing on your farm.
If you have inadvertently stepped on someone's toes this may be their resoonse.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

Maybe it would be helpful if you sat in on a local beekeeping association meeting or contacted a crop farmer in your area and ask for some advice? There are plenty of commercial beeks in Ventura County. I think they would have a vested interest in you/our cause. I would be devistated if this was happening to me. It is a shame that, in their infinite wisdom they built a housing track in a farming community and now just because someone is calling the commissioner daily they are going to over react? That's BS. Good luck to you Brother!


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

What the heck is "etremely high bee activity"? What the heck is "safe distance"?

This ordinance has so many undefined terms it is unenforceable due to being arbitrary and further deprives the accused of due process.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

LSPender said:


> Apuary is 1/2 mile from nearest dwelling. 3/4 mile from complaining house. Bees are visiting none native plants & trees that are blooming. Extreme bee activity means one bee flew by & they see bees on blooming flowers.
> 
> Appreciate the feed back, but would really like to find somene who has had this happen to.
> 
> ...


I havent had this issue but have had problems at the ag check station at border. First off do not under any circumstances give in. Be a mad bulldog. Call the ag commissiones office and politely but firmly ask how the moron (yes use this word as its true) determined it was YOUR bee. Second like above hiw far they are from that area and that bees can fly up to five miles. Then suggest the moron who wrote t he letter and did investigation needs to be fired as anyone that is this stupid is a total waste oftaxpayers dollars. That there are wild bees on trees much closer. Plus removing managed colonies leads to more afranization. Make sure to keep stressing how this is a waste of public money and you cant believe anyone is this stupid. But never never back down. Thats what they expect. Call the almond board, givetnors office and state agriculture dept. In nice but firm at first but can cuss worse than a salior and have. A few years back I had a liad held three days at border due to a wax moth larva, i mean three days to indetify sonething common and every fisherman knows, the next year they wanted to turn my load around or get pressure washed due to two sugar ants. It was 45 deg in Reno and raining, i doubt two ants were out on metal bed plus pallets were new. Nothing to wash. I didnit argue with border and immediately called head guy in Sacremento. After pokite discussion and me telling him I had paper work from Fl that pakkets wereclean and I was ableto enter with up to 5 ants 3 being fire ants and i only had two sugar ants and his insistance that I get pressure washed I asked how much kickback he was getting. At this time he got ill and my language turned as bad as bad gets. I told him that I could not control what he did but I coukd sue him but that would cost as much as I would get. So this was my soultion...send the bees in or turn them back. If you send them back In calling soneone to unload then and care for them. I am then buying a pkane ticket to ca and tomorrow night ill be in your county jail and youll be in the hospital. Responce was let me see what I can do. Five minutes later my driver calls...we are in Ca and rolling. Its a game...dont ever give in to idiots, now some of you will think Im nuts...but I gave akways won. BEE FIRM


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

LSPender said:


> No, this is new apiary location on large ranch that does have many existing apiaries , these hives moved in late October


Why do you suppose they moved out the old hives in October? Were they pressured by the county too? It all just doesn't add up. Someone must have a personal interest of sort. I know it has only been a short time since your original post, keep things updated and maybe you will get a helpful answer.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

There is no mention of hives moving out, only that Larry moved his in on his buddies registered site. We do not know his buddy did not have his own hives at the site.

Jean-Marc


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Here in Shasta, when complaints are received , we are contacted by the ag dept to try to resolve the issue. If found in compliance the complainers get a letter stating such. That doesn't stop some of them from vandalizing hives, dropping rusty nails on your road, etc.
Basically there is a defined minimum distance from dwellings and roads, water requirements, and a sign posted.

6.08.060 Distance from dwellings
A. No person shall place or keep any apiary or cause or allow any apiary to remain
closer than three hundred feet to any residence or dwelling other than a residence or dwelling owned
or possessed by that person or where the apiary is placed or kept with permission the landowner.
Any apiary kept in violation of this subsection is expressly declared to be a public nuisance and such
an apiary must be relocated in compliance with this section. The restrictions of this subsection are
subject to the following exceptions:
1. If the use as a residence or dwelling commenced after an apiary commenced
operation, the three-hundred-foot limitation shall apply only if the Commissioner declares the apiary
or apiaries to constitute a public nuisance;Ordinance No. SCC 2013-____
October 1, 2013
Page 4 of 8
2. The three-hundred-foot limitation does not apply if adequate flight dispersing
barriers are constructed and maintained which, to the satisfaction of the Commissioner, serve to
prevent the apiary or apiaries from constituting a public nuisance.
B. No person shall place or keep any apiary, or cause or allow an apiary to remain closer
than one hundred feet from any public highway, except for temporary purposes of transporting the
same.

So it looks to me like Ventura is way out of line.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

There is minimal forage on the coast in October. Hives move to the coast by the tens of thousands to brood up for the almonds. Unless you are parked under a Euc or Peppertree grove, there is still virtually nothing to forage in January. The OP doesn't really specify the location, but a newish, expensive tract near the Conejo Grade of the Ventura Freeway is called "Sedona by Davidson Homes"







I'm sympathetic to any beek, but the migratory almond hives are piling into the coast without much attention to the land's carrying capacity. The bees burn through the sub, and then descend on the multi-million dollar landscaping (trailing rosemary) and spas. Ventura is "farming" real estate development (compare this aerial with the same scene in 1994 -- when it was all rangeland). Ventura is going to defer to the real estate interests.

The SLO County bee ordinance has an escape clause for hive placement -- requirements are waived "when used for pollinating an agricultural crop". If the Ventura ordinance has similar language, get the landowner to plant an early crop for Mustard seed (or a late crop of Alfalfa seed), and you are good to go. LA hipsters are going wild for "local" stone-ground mustard varietals.

These hives are likely just a week away from the call for the almonds, and it might be best to just move early. They can come back in April for the Sage bloom, and my guess is the oh-so-expensive trailing rosemary won't see a single bee while the purple Sage is flowering.

Was the tract homes split off from the residual ranchland parcel? This might be a sub-rosa war between the real estate speculator and the ranch owner over a deed-of-trust gone bad.


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