# Moving them in



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm going to start moving the hives in tomorrow. I should have them all in by Wednesday. Long range looks cooling and no threat of snow yet but all that snow out west has gotten me spooked!
I blocked off the shed windows, chalked my stacking plans on the floor and turned on the fans. This round will bring the year to an end.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Good for you for taking the next step. Good on ya. Keep us informed on how it goes.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Post some pics of the end product when you're done Ian.. Would love to see the end results..


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

This thread is purely for interest sake, 

I will be more than happy to post pictures of the hives packed away. The way this whole process works still amazes me

Here is a shot of the wintering room today ready for the hives;

http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/IanSteppler/media/IMG_2537_zpsb8a69f0b.jpg.html

Air intake on the left, air exhaust ventilation on the right, both with light traps installed, ceiling fans overhead, all light blocked off, lots of space, lots of space


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

I've been interested in the process myself for a while. Each time I see posts about the wintering inside I can't help but to read it all. So for me pics would bring it all together.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

_Ian_, Photobucket offers an easy way to show those photos directly in your posts, if you would like to do that. Just look for the _Share Links_ area on the right side of the Photobucket page, and click on the one called "*IMG*".

Then come to your Beesource _Compose Message_ window, and 'paste' into the message window where you want the photo to appear. Usually you can do that with a right click menu choice or try the keyboard combination of _Control V_. This is the result:



Optional: If you want to see how the photo displays before posting, in the Beesource _Compose Message_ window, click the "_Go Advanced_" button, then "_Preview Post_".


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Chalk lines is a great idea. I have been thinking about tape but chalk is better.

180 hives left to go for me.

Nice to get the hives in with out snow on the ground.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Optional


holy man, I will see if I can make this work! lol



wow, there you go, thanks Graham! 
here is a pic of my chalk lines to help keep make better use of the winter shed space. Five rows of 192 hives, and room to fit the truck for spring time loading.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> Chalk lines is a great idea. I have been thinking about tape but chalk is better.
> 
> 180 hives left to go for me.
> 
> Nice to get the hives in with out snow on the ground.


how many are you packing away this winter Allen? Im counting better than 900 this winter.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Slightly less than 900 and 300 nucs. Had more attrition this summer than I would like do to heavy swarming. Should have lots of young queens for next year lol.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> Had more attrition this summer than I would like


the seasonal battle,
whats the chances we will encounter a third spring from hell? I'm hoping for one of those Aprils I remember and love.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

It was snowing in Nova Scotia today , so I have wrapping hives and insulating the tops on my mind  I wish I could say that I am getting ready to put them in a wintering building too Ian 

Someday I might get ahead enough to be at your level, for now we are wintering 170 hives.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben Little said:


> Someday I might get ahead enough to be at your level, for now we are wintering 170 hives.


Ben, the only difference between you and I is 10 years. 



notice, some of my equipment is old, make shift and built from salvage.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

Ian,
when do you usually take them back outside again ?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

scituatema said:


> Ian,
> when do you usually take them back outside again ?


Usually April


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian said:


> the seasonal battle,
> whats the chances we will encounter a third spring from hell? I'm hoping for one of those Aprils I remember and love.


Can't happen 3 years in a row can it? First week in April would be nice. March can be a bonus or a headache depending on the weather.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Ian, how do you keep the weight of snow from destroying your shed roof?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

.... and while you are discussing building construction, perhaps you could comment on the amount/type of insulation in the walls and ceiling?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> Ian, how do you keep the weight of snow from destroying your shed roof?





Rader Sidetrack said:


> .... and while you are discussing building construction, perhaps you could comment on the amount/type of insulation in the walls and ceiling?


Truss rafters give me the opportunity to span 50 feet. It has a 4:10 slope, tin and the snow never sticks as our winds usually blows it off anyway. The walls are insulated with 6" of fiberglass insulation, the ceiling has 12" of blow in fiberglass and under the cement floor I have 2" of rigid board foam. Last year with 900 or so hives inside and an idle air flow (the idle is set about as much as table fan would blow on low) the shed held a temp of 5 degrees C through out the winter without any supplemental heat. And last years winter was the coldest winter our area had for over 125 years. It is amazing how much heat is thrown off those bee hives. 

During times of low air flow I have the ceiling fans turned on medium to make sure the air is well mixed to prevent any air pockets from forming. Moisture usually accumulation usually is not a concern as the air coming in is dry and cold but with low air flows C02 and C0 build up can cause air quality problems for the hives. I dont have any monitors for C02 and C0 set up yet but probably would be a good idea. Unlike last year, we typically get mild spells through the winter which would allow a purge of the winter chambers air. 

Some winters it is the opposite. Too warm to cool the shed throughout the mild spells. Because the shed is properly insulated and I have a large air sink in the building right now, I will be adopting Allen's practice of cutting the air flows during the heat of the day though out those mild days to help keep the chamber temp down. Or so I say...
What I have in the works is incorporating a semi trailer reefer cooler into the wintering chamber which will help keep the temps down as the temps increase. This will cut the late winter stress off the hives dramatically and by keeping them in the boxes.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It is amazing how much heat is thrown off those bee hives. 

But I thought bees only heated the cluster! Go ahead slap me.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I know it takes time, I just want it so bad I can taste it !  
I have been doing well not jumping the gun too much with the business. Amanda keeps me in line with that !

I'll get there, SOONER THEN LATER I HOPE LOL


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Ben, what's the hurry?


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Ian

I have always wondered how and when bees confined in this manner get a cleansing flight? Dont they get dysentery?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Riskybizz said:


> Ian
> 
> I have always wondered how and when bees confined in this manner get a cleansing flight? Dont they get dysentery?


This is why I focus on disease management within my apiary. Bees need to be in tip top shape


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

So what you're implying is that they don't ever get a cleansing flight until they're moved outside again.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Riskybizz said:


> So what you're implying is that they don't ever get a cleansing flight until they're moved outside again.


Moving them in now, they get moved out April


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Haraga said:


> Ben, what's the hurry?


I sent you a PM.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Today I finished tucking in my 25,000,000 honey bee work force for winter. Now they will sleep  away the next five months in anticipation for spring. The room roars with a low content buzz from my bee babies!



Our season ends here


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nice.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

now, what to do, what to do...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Cross country skiing, build equipment, spend time w/the family, paint equipment.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)




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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Ian said:


>


opcorn: Glad you have your bees tucked away ! Enjoy your time off


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben Little said:


> Enjoy your time off


ha ha ha, tongue in cheek of course! No time off around on a farm


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## WCMN (Jan 29, 2008)

What was the outside temperature when you moved these hives indoors?


Randy


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

WCMN said:


> What was the outside temperature when you moved these hives indoors?
> 
> 
> 
> Randy


I was working in temps of -5 degreesC night time lows and about 2-5 degreesC daytime temps. 
This time of year the hives are pretty slow, I can work at moving hives all day without bee flight. 

When I mive them back out I will work at night to prevent flight. I like to have them sitting in the yard and settled for a few hours before they see first light.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

They seem to be stacked as single deeps. Assume 10 frames for bees and stores. Do they get any supplemental feed?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

A cluster covering an average of 8 frames and a box full of honey. Late winter feeding if needed but that is desperate measures.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

Probably a good thing you got the girls tucked away considering the arctic blast that will be heading south!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes, your timing was perfect. Quite the system brewing.
Looks like you don't have to worry about weatherproof lids. 
Nice job Ian.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/storm-stronger-sandy-heads-alaska-will-chill-much-u-s-n243391


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

That storm isn't even close to how cold it will get this winter.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I see we have below zero forecast for Tuesday. Mine are all out getting ready to be sitting in the snow. They are wrapped and ready and I am out of excuses to mess with them until maybe the middle of February when there will be a warm day and I can take a peek and see if anything is needed and maybe start throwing them some pollen patties.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Haraga said:


> cold it will get this winter.


Looks like old man winter has dropped his hammer. Snow on the ground and below average temps to start out November. I picked the right week last week to move the hives inside. Cold enough to keep the bees from flying and warm enough I did not freeze my but off working through the yards!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Loading out a truck this morning and one more tomorrow morning and we will have almost everything 1,000 miles south just ahead of the weather. We doubled down on our treatment program and did so earlier than ever. The results are obvious, the bees look the best they have in years. Woo hoo!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

What do you mean when you say double down ?


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

Ian,
I noticed in your pictures that your hives have entrance reducers on them. Do you notice a difference wintering indoor with/without the reducers? I am seeing dramatic differences when I crack lids. Entrance reducers = tight cluster hardly any activity. No entrance reducer = lots of activity bees in a much looser cluster. Last year I didn't run entrance reducers and this year I am running mostly entrance reducers. I see a big difference. Any thoughts or should I start a separate thread?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

No seperate thread! I just started this one to chat.

I reduce entrances when I start fall feeding to help cut the draft and robbing if any. **** wasps also...

I don't think I understand your quorolation with the reducers and clustering. 
Please elaborate


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

Sherri asked me to start a separate thread. So I did. I'll go out there and take pictures. They might be better than an explanation.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> What do you mean when you say double down ?


We started a bit earlier, had everything treated by late August with either thymol or HG and then did follow ups where we saw mite counts remaining high instead of trusting the initial treatment to get us to the point where they would be mostly broodless for an an OA trickle. It moved back the finish of extracting about a week but it was a good trade off.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jim lyon said:


> get us to the point where they would be mostly broodless for an an OA trickle.


This is the perfect time of year to apply an OA treatment. Especially when your hives will be flying in a week or so. 
Im going to treat a couple hives in the shed next week to see if the treatment hurts the hives ability to hold clean cluster til April. I'm afraid the bees will ingest the treatment which will cause problems late winter. I know many who do this treatment in fall and have no apparent problems.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Trickle in fall at these temps outside would be deadly to bees wouldn't it? I have always used the vaporizer. I am thinking of doing the OA dribble as a spring treatment but I guess since you are wintering inside it would bother them.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

That is a good question. The volume of OA/syrup is not really that much and it is spread evenly among the population. I imagine it could be done on pretty cool days but I am waiting for instruction from someone who knows.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben Little said:


> OA dribble as a spring treatment


I am scare to in the spring also, as the bees are old and hungry. Ingesting the treatment would burn their stomachs, right?

perhaps Im exaggerating things


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian said:


> I am scare to in the spring also, as the bees are old and hungry. Ingesting the treatment would burn their stomachs, right?
> 
> perhaps Im exaggerating things


I keep thinking that spring would be a good window but I chicken out every spring as well.

I think a dribble in the wintering room early in winter should be fine. I have dribbled some hives a number of times just before I moved the bees inside to and have seen no ill effects. Last Friday I treated 16 just before I moved them in so that should be similar to treating inside.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Once those pallets of bees are stacked indoors it looks like it'd be a major undertaking to get each of them open for a dribble.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

beemandan said:


> Once those pallets of bees are stacked indoors it looks like it'd be a major undertaking to get each of them open for a dribble.


for sure, that is why they _would_ be done before they come in. I'm going to treat one or two hives next week while they are indoors to see how the treatment is handled through winter storage.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Too bad there's no easy way to do an oxalic acid vaporization as well.....just to see. Then...if it worked well, next season you could....maybe...... store those hives with access to all of the entrances and oav at your leisure.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

beemandan said:


> Too bad there's no easy way to do an oxalic acid vaporization as well..... oav at your leisure.


exactly what I have been thinking. target the hives during a slow work time, in controlled conditions, during a period where mites are the most vulnerable. I just have to make sure the bees will not be harmed. And I just need to figure a way to achieve this while stacked in the shed. Vaporization might be the ticket. Id just have to ensure I have protective equipment on and adequate ventilation. I might test this out also. 
what do you think?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

In such a confined area I would make sure to have full protective gear. Full face with breathing filtration and some sort of jumpsuit. Otherwise you have the entire winter to whittle your way through them. As you point out, it'd be wise to test the idea on a few one season and if it looks good do 'em all the next.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

If you did them at night and if you could get a warmer one, you could probably open up your big doors to help keep things ventilated for you maybe?
I have seen the dribble method done and it appears to be as effective as vaporizing but my concern was the damage being done to the bees with the liquid on them VS a vapor moving around inside the hive. Would it cause Queen failures using OAD vs OAV?
Is their anyone who has any data on the different methods pros and cons?


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Ian said:


> exactly what I have been thinking. target the hives during a slow work time, in controlled conditions, during a period where mites are the most vulnerable. I just have to make sure the bees will not be harmed. And I just need to figure a way to achieve this while stacked in the shed. Vaporization might be the ticket. Id just have to ensure I have protective equipment on and adequate ventilation. I might test this out also.
> what do you think?


Think you are on to something. If your mite count is low now (think your test showed this) there is no need to treat now. It may be wise to wait until Marchish, before any/much brood build up. 

Even with vaporizing, the oxalic acid deposits on the bees and interior surfaces. I suspect the bees ingest a fair bit of oxalic acid grooming and cleaning surfaces. There is some thoughts that it damages their digestive system. I'm not so sure there is much difference between vaporizing and dribbling. So if you waited until Marchish you should soon be getting new bees from brood. 

Something to consider is a commercial vaporizer. See quote below from Scientific Beekeeping, part 2 of vaproizing oxalic acid. I know Cor from our Bee Club and know he uses vaporizing extensively. He treats in October for sure before wrapping for the winter. Believe a spring treatment is dependent on mite samples. Have not seen the vaporizer but it sounds fairly quick per hive. Cor and his son run 2000 hives.

"Update 2009: Dr Medhat Nasr has developed a fan-forced vaporizer that uses oxalic acid “pills” that are easy to handle, and that give exactly the right dose. The design is an improvement over the Varrox, since it does not overheat the acid (and thus cause degradation), and the stream of warm air causes the cluster to open up so that the vapor can penetrate. It is manufactured in Alberta, Canada by Cor Dewitt (780 986 8582)"

But having said this, Cor is vaporizing his winter bees in late fall and doesn't seem to be issues. Ian, Cor is a helpful guy and I'm sure wouldn't mind a call.


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