# Wait three weeks after mating



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

In the thread: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...g-from-ok-queens-.-.-.-to-great-queens./page2

There was a discussion on leaving a newly mated queen undisturbed for 3 weeks after mating. Although I don't doubt the benefits, I'm curious as to what exactly is going on during that period to make it so critical.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

That is the period of development that the queen needs to be able to lay undisturbed so her ovaries can fully develop and she can reach her optimal pheromonal production level... each time the nest is disturbed it causes a break in the colonies activities, sometimes causing the queen to shut down for several days to a week, and sometimes causing a colony to blame the young queen for the confusion... during the period of time that she is developing, she needs to be undisturbed... its better in most cases to cage her than to peak in at her... hope this helps.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

That's good information to know. About a month ago, I got a small colony from a cut out and the queen died shortly after I hived them. There were already supercedure cells on the brood comb that I rubber banded into a frame during the cut out so I don't think they were very happy with that queen. I was going to combine this colony but then I decided to see what happens if I leave them alone to see if they make a new queen that will mate this late in the season.

I put a frame of eggs/brood in just to make sure they had resources. I checked 3 days ago and saw a new queen running around but no eggs yet. We've had really good weather here for the last several weeks. Nice and sunny about 65 degrees. I have plenty of drones running around still from the 11 other hives in the apiary. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I won't peek again for a while.


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I recently installed a queen. Two days past so I checked to see if they had eaten through the candy and they hadn't. I carefully removed the cork from the other end of the cage and two attendants immediately came out. I quickly closed up because of high winds before seeing her. Should I wait three weeks before another inspection?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Na. The three weeks is for newly emerged queens... when installing a mated queen, 2-3 days is fine for releasing her, just be sure that there are no cells or makings of cells in the hive... after she is released, I recommend just leaving them alone for ten days or so... this gives her time to get completely accepted and lay up enough brood that the bees will know she is a keeper. ;-)


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Seems like there must be a small window to peek after planting a cell, yes? If not, then why is introducing virgins an acceptable approach for those seeking to make great quality queens? I suspect that I've been peeking too much, but waiting 3 weeks after planting a cell will almost certainly result in a laying worker if the cell or virgin is unsuccessful. After I plant a cell I check back in a couple of days to seek if she emerged (don't necessarily try to find her, but pull the cell and check for proper emergence), then I give her about 10 days and check for eggs. After I see eggs I close it up and give her another 2 weeks before she is caged.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

AstroBee said:


> but waiting 3 weeks after planting a cell will almost certainly result in a laying worker if the cell or virgin is unsuccessful.


That's what I'm worried about and that's the reason I keep on looking in. I've already had one laying worker hive because I just "left them alone". I want to see eggs NOW! :waiting:


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

It actually takes a while (30-45 days usually) for that to develop... mainly because there has to be a lack of brood or failed e-queen first... there should be brood in your nucs, thus they should start their own cells instead of start developing ovaries... two things to look at, your scheduling vs your nuc size, and are the nucs fed and stocked strong enough...

If your scheduling is off for the size nuc that you use, it can weaken your nuc and cause broodless periods...

If they are starving or too weak, they may be consuming larvae instead of drawing cells... adding a frame of brood, a shake of bees, and either a frame of honey or feeding will correct the problem...

Virgins are used during the summer when there are no second chances and temps, robbing, and dearth make cells a dangerous bet... 

Peaking during spring is not so bad, so long as its just to check the cell, like day four... but if you start seeing a high percentage of cells not hatching, you may want to test each step and see if you can fix that problem before it gets to the nucs, which are without a doubt, the most expensive and exhaustive part of the program... you want to protect them as best you can to keep them going strong...


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

rrussell6870 said:


> the most expensive and exhaustive part of the program... you want to protect them as best you can to keep them going strong...


Yes, the creation and management of mating nucs is the part that really places a heavy tax on my small (30 colony) operation. I wish there were a sliver bullet, but I believe that it comes down to mostly a numbers game. You simply must have the hive resources in order to establish and maintain these nucs. Of course, this is said as someone who also needs to make a honey crop to keep that part of the business alive - its been a real balancing act.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Sounds like you need to look into threeway nucs... they are much more sustainable... once stocked, they give you the versatility of pulling a divider out if a nuc gets weak so the one beside it can boost it, they can be overwintered with queens heading each nuc over a strong hive or sitting alone for milder winters, and you can pull both dividers when your done mating and turn them into full sized hives... so stocking your nucs goes from being a burden on your resources, to being a means of increase...


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

rrussell6870 said:


> Sounds like you need to look into threeway nucs...


Sounds like a good winter project. I've been using 4-way queen castles from Brushy and have found that they are too small, which makes getting frame in and out harder than it should be. I also have some split 5-frame nucs that work better, but are not as reconfigurable. 

What do you use for dividers in your 3-ways?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

I have used everything from wood to hardboard like what comes in the brushy mountain fourways, but what I use now solely is plastic dividers.. last forever, never bow, and the bees don't glue them down like they do wood... the bottom boards are the most important feature... they have double screened vents for each chamber and the entrances are on the bottom board, not the the box, so you can stack the bottom boards on hive and place your nucs on them to go through winter with each hole stocked, benefiting from the heat generated by the hive...


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

rrussell6870 said:


> what I use now solely is plastic dividers.. last forever, never bow, and the bees don't glue them down like they do wood... the bottom boards are the most important feature... they have double screened vents for each chamber and the entrances are on the bottom board, not the the box, so you can stack the bottom boards on hive and place your nucs on them to go through winter with each hole stocked, benefiting from the heat generated by the hive...


Can you post a picture of this? (went to my local beek meeting last night, getting a fever again..)


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## stripstrike (Aug 29, 2009)

Gypsi said:


> (went to my local beek meeting last night, getting a fever again..)


I'm feeling it too, same time as last year. Who knew?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Here is a link to the threeways...
http://russellapiaries.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2691378

Here is a link to the fourways that use mini frames, but the pics show more of the bottom board...
http://russellapiaries.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2705744


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

In placing 10 mini frames in your fourways, along with having that wooden divider, is your fourway wider than a standard hive?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

In addition, what type of top do you use for your fourways? I'm wondering if one part can access another part, even with the lid on. Or, if you take the lid off, how do you manage one section and not the other three?

A threeway can have the individual covers left on, exposing only one at a time. I'm not sure how that is accomplished with a fourway.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

The fourways are standard ten frame size... they can fit five mini (half length in medium or DEEP) frames in each hole snugly, or a mini division feeder can be placed in each hole with four frames and a little more play...

The fourways come with wooden slat tops for each individual hole just like the threeways do... a telescoping top is used to cover that, but sold separately, just like the other versions on the market...


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Every time I try to overwinter a nuc, it grows so fast I have to hive them in an eight frame or else they'll swarm. How do you keep them overwintered and not grow?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

We keep ours leveled out by rotating combs and caging queens/planting cells all the way up until they start shutting down... most people try to feed them constantly, but that only causes them to lay when they shouldn't be...


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

So I can keep several nucs over winter and by rotating brood frames into other weaker hives in my yard, I can keep the nuc at a consistent population. Ok, makes sense to me. I think I'm over feeding so I'll stop that too.

Thanks!


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I figure around mid-February there are going to be some really hungry robber bees in my neighborhood. I'm still seeing them foraging in my gardens now. Really getting a fever. Free Bees.... (well maybe not free.)

Suitably priced for breeding experiments and such like...


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

When I get my head completely warped around this concept I'm going to get me one. Or maybe I should go ahead an get one. I am a visual learner or at least that's what my wife says she teaches


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