# Dirt Cheap Bee Keeping!



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Thinking about a book that could be co produced by Greg V and Little_john; something like "Dirt Cheap Subsistence Beekeeping"!. Seriously there have been a wealth of ideas about how to have your own honey with an absolute minimum of purchased equipment. Forget about the virtue signalling 500 or 1000$ garden hives. No concessions to beauty or conformity. Very little in the way of tools etc. 

I think it is a challenge that some people would take up on. An interesting hobby with virtually no cash outlay. This would not be one of these frivolous save the bees grabbers for people with no knowledge of bees or much interest in acquiring it. Just bare bones necessities for the BEES needs. Kind of a different mindset but not really so wild.

I think it could be made to fly! I know I would rather read it than some of the sappy bee books full of terms like "bonding with the bees"


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

crofter said:


> Thinking about a book that could be co produced by Greg V and Little_john;


Hey, crofter, I was thinking to start a thread titled - "Dirt Cheap Beekeeping".
But I kinda need to do my actual job at the moment. 

You could start a thread OR do you want to just rename this thread to "Dirt Cheap Beekeeping"?
The "book" can be discussed within just as well.

PS: I just hate when people are spending their meager SSN checks on this useless hobby. LOL


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Title changed! My wife and I got to talking about the rising cost many aspects of life. It affects us very little but so many are living on the ragged edge. There are so many grabbers for their little bit of money. Many people really do not know how to stretch a dollar and still have fun. They get caught in money traps at every turn. 

We harass you a bit for being "cheap" and you return the favor for being wasteful so that is a draw. If push came to shove though you could be still keeping your bees with stone age equipment. The bees wouldnt care and the honey would still be as sweet. Little_john has similar inclinatiions and gets a lot of satisfaction I am sure out of not filling the pockets of the hyper sales "establishments".


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

So yes, this is one of my favorite topics.

It will require mental switch for some people. 
Need to ditch that "10-frame deep Lang box" mentality.
It is not essential and gets in a way.

Here is a picture of a computer box in my very cube.
I keep it around for a reason (a matter of fact, I collect similar equipment boxes and take them home).

What I see is a perfect bee hive - free, warm, decent size, compatible with Lang frames.
The box is very robust - a requirement for storage and shipping of expensive electronics (I will not take just any box as some of them are not suitable).
This box is afraid of water but that is easily fixed by plastic wrap.
Lid - one of those ceramic tiles I scrounged last summer.
The box is also easily replaceable after a season if needed (I got too many as it is).

The box takes 5 Ukrainian frames (just free standing them is fine) OR about 10 medium Lang frames (also free-standing but in another direction).
I also made some hanging scaffolding into these, but concluded, that is more hassle than it is worth it (not necessary).

Tall-narrow frames (e.g. Ukrainan, Layens) are great because the can be just stood up and immediately create favorable to the bees volume (something akin to a double-deep).
So without any special support frame-work around, 3-4 freely standing deep frames immediately create a good bee shelter where the bees can cluster rather naturally (and there is sufficient under-cluster air space which is beneficial to both bee and the cardboard - bees will not chew through the paper).
Drop those frames into a suitable box - done, you got yourself a functional beehive.

But yes - it is beneficial and essential to be *compatible *to the conventional folks around you if you wanna be "dirt cheap".
Let's not get into that silly "natural" TBH mentality - that is not helpful and not even "dirt cheap" by default.
Go and find thrown away free TBH hives in dumpsters - good luck! 
But computer boxes are laying around right and left for taking - almost "ready to go" nuc boxes.

I am not talking just a theory here - I have done it and this works.
Having these boxes in the garage on a stand-by - if I am out of equipment, the bees will spill over into these boxes.
Now that I said it, gonna have to have bees in this box next summer just for a demo (IF I have that many bees).

So - electronic equipment boxes work great in "dirt cheep beekeeping".
One idea to get us started.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregV said:


> So - electronic equipment boxes work great in "dirt cheep beekeeping".


This includes "dirt cheap" swarm trapping, of course.


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## rangerpeterj (Dec 27, 2015)

I would like to think of my beekeeping hobby as on the cheap. One of my most favorite hobbies before beekeeping was wood working, then gardening. The wood working lead to beekeeping , looking for a wood project one winter my sister which is a beekeeper suggested I make some bee hives.That was in 2015 and now I'm hooked.I make all my wooden ware I'm a disciple of JohnO so my mite treatments is really cheap with 12 to 13 treatments of OAV. and I have very few winter losses because of JohnO ( thanks John).With that said I have more bees and students then I have time to handle. They call me cheap Pete at the bee club! I do enjoy beekeeping and Beesource.com


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## coalsmok (Jan 27, 2017)

I build my hives out of rough saw lumber or salvage lumber if at all possible. Many of my nuc boxes are made from used plywood shipping crates being thrown out at work. I have a 9? frame hive here made out of a shipping box for a valve. 
I have gave up on making frames. I just don’t have the time to justify it. I switched to Pierco plastic frames. Cost is about the same as wood and wax and I don’t have to build them.
Learning to make bees saves more money.


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## Wil-7 (Sep 4, 2021)

PS: I just hate when people are spending their meager SSN checks on this useless hobby. LOL 

Hey, I resemble that remark. lol


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

I live in an expensive place to purchase bee equipment, if only due to exorbitant, an ever rising, shipping expenses.
My solution is to purchase boxes and frames unassembled, and to make my own covers and bottom boards out of whatever I can get. Beyond that, I am a natural cell beekeeper, also known as foundationless.
Not me, but a person with only a few hives done this way can easily cut the combs of honey out and then crush them. I do this with any odd combs and my cappings. I do have a perforated cylinder into which I place the crushed combs and further squeeze them down to remove most of the honey.
I'm not saying it's the greatest way, but it certainly is cheaper than buying and storing all of the equipment necessary for extraction. 
My caveat is that I am only talking about a method suitable to the beekeeper who has only a few hives and is not worried about whether or not he could have harvested a greater quantity of honey using a more sophisticated method.
Equipment needed: veil and hat, smoker, hive tool, bee brush, and knives and crushing tools. Bee suit and gloves? For the bees I have, they are unnecessary,
IMO, the 'bee companies' offer a lot of equipment that the less informed beekeeper will purchase thinking that they are must have items, and this runs up the bill.
Bees? Catch swarms, do cutouts, and make your own splits rather than buying bees. I realize that, for some, this is easier said and done. That said, I haven't bought bees in 50 years.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

I got into beekeeping and making my own hives and frames a couple of years ago because I have the same expensive shipping problem as Gino45. Now EVERYTHING made of wood that is discarded by us, family or friends, looks like hive making material. I use old picture frames as robbing screens, cut up wooden dressers for their plywood to use in hives, and am looking at some old solid oak cupboard doors for nuc tops. I tease my husband that our ugly, old, none functional piano has way too much solid wood in it for it to stay whole LOL. But it is_ hands off that_, for now. 
I wonder if I just opened the top and dropped a coupe of frames in if he would notice, probably, because it is still in the house.  

Is it weird that when I look at it I mentally measure the sides and notice that a deep frame would fit with not much adjustment needed?


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

If a guy working under these primitive conditions can make hives cheaply - anybody can. 









LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

One of the pillars of the DCB (Dirt Cheap Beekeeping) is *scrounging*.

The guys making those TBHs on the picture right above would be envious of us in US/Canada - having access to the "Free" section of the Craigslist or Nextdoor or Facebook or some other web resource (including local papers, etc).
Not to mention the construction dumpsters - those are god-sent gold mines.

So just to make a point - right here I am looking at the latest "Free" section of my local Craigslist.
By now I am selective and will not just get any junk - but rather good quality junk.
But still, bee boxes can be made and setup for nothing (just some time investment).

"Ping pong table" (no picture) - enough material for 2-3 nuc hives plus hardware plus the stands (UNLESS you do want the table as is)
"black board" - more nuc grade material, potentially











- more material

















- a couple of tires to be used as hive stands








- more hive stands









- all kinds of free wood
















- another hive stand


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Wow, this is great!!
Now I don't have to be embarrassed by my homemade nucs of old particle board, or my hideous double screen boards, or the hive stands from a picnic table that fell apart. 
Etc.

But Greg, you're a regular Fred Sanford with all the junk you have!!!
You must have a huge yard to keep all that trash.
I'm impressed. 

Well done, folks!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Arnie said:


> But Greg, you're a regular Fred Sanford with all the junk you have!!!
> You must have a huge yard to keep all that trash.
> I'm impressed.


I don't.
Moreover, I leave in a subdivision with manicured yard crazy people who periodically complain on my backyard beekeeping.
Yah, I am really annoying that way with my bees, and fruit trees and veg garden - very unsightly in winter months.

Junk is one reason why I have seven locations - I just distribute the junk I scrounge up between those places.
Since all of my locations hidden in bushes and woods, no one cares.
Out of site, out of mind.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Arnie said:


> Now I don't have to be embarrassed


Don't.

A matter of fact, I know many of my neighbors quietly hate me. LOL
They say all the politically correct things about "saving the bees", etc, etc - and yet even a single dandelion on their lawn gets promptly killed.

And then there is GregV's yard - full of dandelions, clover, bee boxes, and junk stuffed under the back porch.

Here is the thing - all those "well wishers" happily take their junk to a recycling center and such (most of it just goes directly into the landfill).
They care less where their junk goes afterwards - but it has to go somewhere.
So I am doing my little thing to mitigate the best I can - doing the "dirt cheap beekeeping".


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Greg's Ghetto Apiary
"Our business is picking up"
😀


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

GregV said:


> And then there is GregV's yard - full of dandelions, clover, bee boxes, and junk stuffed under the back porch.


This made me chuckle. We live on a cattle farm in grain country. I swear my farmer neighbours are tempted to swing in with their round-up boom and sweep my huge front lawn as they pass by during the spring dandelion season. But when they are all in bloom it is actually a beautiful buzzing site and quite easy to mow the rest of the year, but in spring they are allowed to flourish.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregV said:


> Don't.
> 
> A matter of fact, I know many of my neighbors quietly hate me. LOL
> They say all the politically correct things about "saving the bees", etc, etc - and yet even a single dandelion on their lawn gets promptly killed.
> ...


Oh. I think we could swap homes and no one would notice. Except my front yard. Wife worries about the neighbors so I dutifully murder dandelions. Back yard is mine and all kinds of things flourish. 

On topic, my main cost has always been frames. 5 years ago at the local farm store a box of 5 frames with plastic foundation was $15. Now, it's over $30! Last year I bought 100 un-assembled frames so I am set for a while, but it still wasn't what this stingy guy thought of as cheap.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> Oh. I think we could swap homes and no one would notice. Except my front yard. Wife worries about the neighbors so I dutifully murder dandelions. Back yard is mine and all kinds of things flourish.


We are one-to-one, AR.
Exact same thing - front yard is mostly compliant to the HOA wishes.
Backyard - some resemblance of the personal expression freedom.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

GregV, you have friends in China. Their names are Liu Xinyu, Tian Huiyu, Liu Haiyang, Ren Yuanzhang, and Liu Haifeng.

See the screenshot of their patent application below.

You can't make this stuff up.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

When the lawn care people call, I always ask them about my problems with clover, creeping charlie and dandelions. Ask if they have anything that will kill the grass without harming the flowers. Sometimes the grass is crowding them out, and it looks so brown when it goes dormant. I've decided dandelions are my favorites. But creeping charlie is nice too, and it blooms all summer. That and the wild morning glories.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

A Novice said:


> When the lawn care people call, I always ask them about my problems with clover, creeping charlie and dandelions. Ask if they have anything that will kill the grass without harming the flowers. Sometimes the grass is crowding them out, and it looks so brown when it goes dormant. I've decided dandelions are my favorites. But creeping charlie is nice too, and it blooms all summer. That and the wild morning glories.


I have seriously thought about an all-clover lawn, though birdsfoot trefoil is high on my list as well.








Lotus corniculatus - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

A Novice said:


> ..... I've decided dandelions are my favorites. But creeping charlie is nice too, and it blooms all summer. That and the wild morning glories.


Charlie is my friend!
Early spring bumble bees depend on the Charlie in my back yard.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> I have seriously thought about an all-clover lawn,


Thought and have done it too.
The mistake was - I did not ask my wife before I done it. Ouch!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

A Novice said:


> GregV, you have friends in China. .........
> You can't make this stuff up.


For shame.
My "friends" in China watch Youtube and then try to patent that stuff?
I have never gone that low yet.
Not worth it anyway.

A fridge-hive is a great idea, I just did not get to it yet.
Most likely for one of the remote yards.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

GregV said:


> For shame.
> My "friends" in China watch Youtube and then try to patent that stuff?


OK, maybe you win this one. But maybe not!
They have a priority date of 30March2018, When did your other friends make their video? With the time it takes to make up an application, most likely your Chinese friends thought of this in 2017 or earlier.
Either way, don't be too hard on them. I suspect they are required to come up with "inventions". There are a lot of not very original things showing up in Chinese patent applications. They just patent them in China.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

OK, some "private parts".
Some of the scrounging proceeds tucked under the porch and trashing the garage.
I could easily put together 30-40 boxes not going to the Menards once.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

A Novice said:


> They just patent them in China.


Figured as much.
Those fridge-hives have been around for just about ever.
It is kinda lame to be patenting such trivial stuff where people just share it all for the fun of it.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Garage is full of the same. 
It is a mess.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Screened doors are always a must-take.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

I am always on a look out for these old, robust coolers - all way around great, multi-purpose boxes.
Ready to go nuc hives. 
They even have built-in entrances.
These are great to deliver ready nucs to the people (frames only).


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

hey an old freezer would make a sweet long deep hive.
I second the idea Frank Had.
Maybe make it a downloadable E Book for 25 Cents.
we all could do a "hive" take picks add it all together, and set it on a download site.

BTW just spent 2 days cutting the blow down trees up from our hunting property, from last year,
2300 board feet.

Big storm this week, I bet there are a plethora of trees down that could make nice hives.

repurposed stuff would be fun, But I see way more trees down rotting than can be used for bees.

GG


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

AR1 said:


> I have seriously thought about an all-clover lawn, though birdsfoot trefoil is high on my list as well.


I scattered some 'micro clover' seeds on my lawn wonderful stuff, stays really short and doesn't look shaggy.

I love your stash Greg, I scored 2 church pews that were left outside as benches way too long. The backs lost their glue and separated into 1"X 1.5" X 5' oak strips. In the spring I will shave them down for frames.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

Haven't parked my car in my garage in years.....


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

I am a dirt cheap beekeeper. I spent $200 to buy my first (established) hive from a neighbor who’s kid turned out to be allergic. I spent another $75 or so on a smoker, veil, etc. After that, my wife got real sensitive about me spending any money on bees. That actually turned out to be a good thing, because I now take a lot of pride in how inexpensively I have been able to absolutely jam pack my back yard with hives.

I use only scrap wood that I get for free from the lumber yard and construction sites. My tools are mostly dirt cheap pieces I got on Craigslist. I get my paint for $10 per gallon at HomeDepot - reject paint colors. I have also purchased 2 boxes of staples, a couple of saw blades, and I think I’m on my third bottle of Titebond. 

I’m sure there were a few other things, but you can see that my expenses are super small. If I sell a nuc or two each year, I can easily come out in the black


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Cobbler said:


> I am a dirt cheap beekeeper.


Cobbler, 
Based on your swarm haul this season, you are an ultra dirt cheap beekeeper! 
People should hate you for it! LOL

Scrounging free bees is another pillar of the dirt cheap beekeeping.
More on that later.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

A Novice said:


> Haven't parked my car in my garage in years.....


Well, not that I enjoy it, but a matter of fact I lost count of years being parked outside - but no more than five!
Another downside, the kids point at my garage as soon as I tell them to pickup after themselves. 
And then the wife... 
Something needs done.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Patenting a refrigerator-beehive ? Sad, or what ?

Like numerous others, I 'invented' such a beehive years ago - inside my head, I would hasten to add - but the mental vision of such beehives being placed alongside carefully manicured lawns and trimmed hedges was sufficient for me to keep such ideas quietly to myself. Just because something *can *be done, is not reason enough why it *should* be done, imo. 
In impoverished Africa maybe, but not within affluent First-World suburbia - else the craft of Beekeeping could well develop a very bad reputation. Perhaps if such beehives were placed under, or within a structure which was more acceptable to the eyes of a suburban housewife ?

One other 'alternative' beehive design which appeals to me is the use of a re-purposed 'Wheelie-Bin'. Weatherproof, and with mobility - what's not to like ? (Bet the Chinese will patent that idea next week ...  )
LJ


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

Cobbler said:


> I think I’m on my third bottle of Titebond.


Search Titebond original in gallons at HomeDepot, scroll down to the reviews and check out the Nov 14, 2021 review in particular.  

And yes I am a former caver (spelunker) and considered using that name here.

Not yet a "dirt cheap beekeeper" but will be once I retire. Already a master scrounger / pack rat! Runs in the family... Still have some nice stuff I dumpster dove as far back as the 80s.


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## Wil-7 (Sep 4, 2021)

GregV said:


> Charlie is my friend!
> Early spring bumble bees depend on the Charlie in my back yard.


Really ? Creeping Charlie is good for Bumble Bees ? What about for Honeybees? I didn't even know that Creeping Charlie bloomed. That stuff took over my whole front lawn this year and is choking out my clover. I have read it is hard to get rid of short of pulling it out by the roots and the weed killers are harmful to Honeybees.


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## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

AR1 said:


> I have seriously thought about an all-clover lawn, though birdsfoot trefoil is high on my list as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Roughly every 4-5 years since the mid-80's we've planted/sown white dutch clover everywhere we mow (about 2 acres), usually (almost always) while it's raining, or will be soon. 

As a result we have a steady bloom taking place from Spring dandelions, creeping charlie, grasses, inter spread with both planted and wild 'johnny-jump-ups' and clover through the Fall. 

Our lawn attracts pollinators all Summer and I refuse to mow more than once a month...and have been known to let it go even longer, making it difficult to watch out for the droppings left by our free range poultry... So it goes.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

Maybe the title of the book should be ' Confessions of a Dirt Cheap Beekeeper'. It sounds like many of us are fessing up. 😀


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

little_john said:


> Perhaps if such beehives were placed under, or within a structure which was more acceptable to the eyes of a suburban housewife ?


For sure, they are huge and unless you are able to paint it in a way to add beauty or disguise it's original use they are best left on a large property where they would not be visible.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Now I want to build a hive in an old car trunk, that has been at the edge of the farm field for 50 years.
take the key lock out - entrance, 2 rails for frames Hive. open bottom of the trunk Screen for vermin and let the debris fall. Wrap the hive area in 7 mil plastic and fill the rest of the space with spray foam. Spray foam the trunk lid close on plastic over the top bars and a shim let it expand. 2 weeks to clear the air drop a NUC in it to season it. then the years after it can be a swarm trap or resource hive.
no one would even know bees were in it.


book title " Confessions of a dumpster diver, turned bee Haver"

would be a cool thread if everyone built one wild hive each, and took the pics along the way as bread crumbs for those that follow.

GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Riding lawn mower/ tractor. Take the motor out--; Voila!


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

Used file cabinet. Especially the legal paper sized ones.
Take out the keylocks you have entrances.
One colony per drawer. Lang deeps fit, or you can make em a bit deeper.
They are cheap now because nobody uses paper storage.

Even better a fire safe. 2 inches of insulation file drawers. And they give them away because the insulation is gypsum, so they don't recycle like other metal. Heavy enough to be bear proof, with latches designed to prevent theft.

I think I am going to do this....


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Not sure if this qualities for Dirt Cheap Beekeeping, but it is repurposed materials:


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Wil-7 said:


> Really ? Creeping Charlie is good for Bumble Bees ? What about for Honeybees?


Yes, definitely the Bumbles forage it well.
My Honebees ignore my backyard and go elsewhere - so they ignore the Charlie too.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregV said:


> I am always on a look out for these old, robust coolers - all way around great, multi-purpose boxes.
> Ready to go nuc hives.
> They even have built-in entrances.
> These are great to deliver ready nucs to the people (frames only).


Guys have lots of good ideas.
But the large coolers with built-in water spigots are about perfect - nothing to do, ready to go.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

Too late now, but could have topped all the ideas so far in this thread including the car trunk and the refrigerator. Had a fiberglass dog catcher bed in my front yard for nearly five years. Sons, he had bought the truck at an auction and replaced the bed with a ragged out standard bed. People who later bought the truck wanted the other bed but were unwilling to swap them on short notice. Son later sold the giant white eyesore to someone else... Not that it was visible to neighbors or folks driving by, but was very visible to us looking out our front windows.

Did I mention packratitus runs in the family? Son has had to tone his down a bunch since moving, no HMO but corner lot on two fairly busy roads.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

LBussy said:


> Not sure if this qualities for Dirt Cheap Beekeeping, but it is repurposed materials:


Oh yes! I have one of those tucked away. Daughter used to keep toads or snakes in it. Plus, it was a 'found' item.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

Gray Goose said:


> would be a cool thread if everyone built one wild hive each, and took the pics along the way as bread crumbs for those that follow.


I'm in. LOL


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

I think the aquarium is a cool idea as a dirt-cheap observation hive.


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## Wil-7 (Sep 4, 2021)

My wife has a Skink in her aquarium which took the place of her Python. I might have to go buy my own aquarium for this project. I think it is a grand idea.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Hopefully, the python is no longer and it's not "somewhere." If my wife kept a snake (yeah yeah here come the jokes) I think I would have to leave.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

I have an aquarium, 24 inches deep, 12 inches wide, and about 40 inches long.
It was a curbside score as a reserve as my son keeps fish. However, he has enough tanks full of fish already, I think.
That would be close to a Layens size, I suppose? narrow and deep. What would you suggest for an entrance? Drilling the glass is possible, but risk of cracking is there.
I could use the old liner from the trunk of a car I used to own for a top cover - just to give it that jaunty look.
It would need to be in the shade, so as not to become a solar way melter.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

In that vid he broke out the bottom and set it on a wooden bottom board. Scrounged, of course.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

If someone that wants near zero cost entry and they are willing to make their own woodenware, then a Warré is certainly worth considering. Someone with even minimum skill level can build one without a lot of fancy tools. You can make a Warré with with a handsaw and a drill, but having a power saw will make it much easier.

My Warré hive cost me $6.00. I made it all from an old waterbed frame. The top roof was a scrap of fascia board left over from a shed. The feeder was made from a single 2x4 I had laying around. The only money I spent making it was a 6$ can of spray spar urethane. A better scrounge would have made it for $0.

Hard to beat that for dirt cheap.

It was stocked with a caught swarm.

While I haven't used it every season (mainly for reason of compatibility with my other hives) I haven't spent so much as 1¢ on the Warré gear since then, and I've harvested more than 100 lbs of honey (45kg) from it across the three seasons I used it.

Because Warré hives are a bit of a novelty hive if you purchase one ready made they can be expensive, but as long as you make one, its a dirt cheap option, and quite frankly, the one's I've seen online are no better made and many are worse — bit of a rip off.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JConnolly said:


> and quite frankly, the one's I've seen online are no better made and many are worse — bit of a rip off.


Last spring I was picking up some free nuc boxes from a guy (was a great scrounge - 5 nuc boxes for free; those boxes used to sell the nucs).
Loving those boxes for all kinds of uses - you can see on one of my pics.

Anywho.... Right there we was trying to sell a Warre hive he bought online.
What a cheap POS that was - cheaply made and zero compatibility with anything.
I'd be ashamed to ask money for it (though I understand the guy - he paid for it himself, so that's OK).
Maybe a swarm trap could be out of it - assuming a cut-out every time you catch a swarm (what a PITA).


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

GregV said:


> We are one-to-one, AR.
> Exact same thing - front yard is mostly compliant to the HOA wishes.
> Backyard - some resemblance of the personal expression freedom.


there is more of us


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

This is my take on almost cheap equipment:

















Each box is made of one 1x12x6ft (~$9 when I was making them)

Please note that one can use regular 6 brood frames or if the brood frame plastic foundation is rotated by 90deg it can be hung in two boxes (12 narrow-toll frames) and this will make Polish Warsaw Regular Hive, close to Ukrainian Hive.

My setup is 3x 6FR over 6FR so that I can put 2x 10FR regular Lang supper boxes above QE. The other thing is that it can be made as "Horned Hive" (Rogaty Ul, popular in Ukraine and Hungary).


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

5 boxes have "horns" so they snap exactly where they should be when putting on the top of each other. R20 top cover helps with bearding in summer and helps keep the bees warm in winter.

This is my idea of cheap beekeeping not to mention that all my queens are OTS or graft mutts.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Beautiful work!


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## plantman (May 30, 2020)

I use these for tempory covers/permanent sometimes.I use them dividers also.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Here are a couple of shots of my best scrounge ever ...

I was helping to clear a Pallet Yard which had become bankrupt and, as well as salvaging a couple of thousand pallets (from which I now make beehives), and a hundred or so rot-proof plastic pallets (they thought I was daft for taking those) - I also scored several hundred of these:










The above are cage-sides which are attached to pallets for holding bulk loose items (soft toys etc) for transporting - there are 12 battens, one metre long per side, as well as two useful lengths of 1.5" square-section at the ends. The other pieces are firewood. 
But it's the battens which are the gold-dust - ideal for making frames with. They come in 10mm and 15mm thicknesses, around 28-32mm wide. Some 5% or so are found to be firewood - twisted, bowed, knots and so forth - but the remainder are proving ideal.

Here's the result of dismantling a few cages, prior to becoming Ukrainian Frames (at next to zero cost - only electric, glue and a few tiny woodscrews required):










LJ


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## Wil-7 (Sep 4, 2021)

plantman said:


> I use these for tempory covers/permanent sometimes.I use them dividers also.


Do you have any trouble with bears that can read?


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## plantman (May 30, 2020)

Lol.bears are always an issue


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregV said:


> Scrounging free bees is another pillar of the dirt cheap beekeeping.
> More on that later.


So yes, the bee scrounging.
After the equipment-related scrounging, the bee scrounging is a big one.

But there is nothing really new here - catch swarms and propagate your stock on hand.
I am not @Cobbler by any means, but I can still brag I am pretty good at bee scrounging and consistently so.

I started the spring of 2021 with one surviving dink.
Went into 2021/2022 winter with eleven (11) medium to strong hives + donated one colony to a friend.
Could be more, but only caught six (6) swarms and somewhat later in season than usual.

Total cost for the bees in 2021 - *$0.0*
So that is nothing to sniff at, considering how much people spend for the same. 

In 2020 I bought a queen for $30 (own pickup)
Before that I got some free queens from a friend and only paid for shipping (that cost was pricey though)
If I recall that would be $50 in shipping costs back in 2016 or 2017.

So the total bee cost for me for the 2016-2021 period is *under $100* so far.
That is still dirt cheap, considering how many colonies I went through since 2016 - *70+ *now.








GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.


I think you're better with brood less dribble, as the media may be a clean summer, not just a clean start Yes, thinking the same. Long term release may be masking the bee-side mite handling (IF they can do it). Like the idea of giving every one queen a clean and fair start but then letting them...




www.beesource.com





Suppose an occasional queen purchase is OK.

If I improve at retaining all my gains (which I have been blowing away just as quickly as I got them), I hope I don't even need that occasional queen purchase.
TF experimentation project has been expensive that way (another reasonable argument against the TF there - it can be expensive due to the associated waste).
I wasted too much potential monetary value by not realizing it - could have sold few swarms at the least to make up the fuel burned (driving about is a significant expense).

So the bee retention is a part of the equation and is not to be ignored (or creatively written off as if it does not matter - often used in TF "business model").
Need to be able to both scrounge the bees AND retain them too - as far as the monetizing goes.
Dirt cheap operation still is very much about money - both spent and made.

Anyway, this is still darn dirt cheap beekeeping - looking at the people buying packages and nucs right and left like hot cakes - and yet still wasting their bees just the same.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

So let see now what the other Dirt Cheap Beeks can brag about in the bee scrounging department. 
Dollar saved is dollar made!


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Greg, you win the Jack Benny Award!


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

jtgoral those are some great well built hives. I like their ability to be used with multiple style frames. Pretty soon my pictures album for hives will be huge, I save pictures of hives from posters so I can refer back easily otherwise I have a terrible time tying to find them in the spring when I start building.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

ursa_minor said:


> jtgoral those are some great well built hives. I like their ability to be used with multiple style frames. Pretty soon my pictures album for hives will be huge, I save pictures of hives from posters so I can refer back easily otherwise I have a terrible time tying to find them in the spring when I start building.


I have technical drawings of my 6FR parts. I was a mechanical engineer by trade before I switched to software development. Now I am a retired old man


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

jtgoral said:


> Now I am a retired old man


You can retire just from being an old man? I gotta get in on this!


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## sparkyApis (Apr 9, 2021)

jtgoral said:


> This is my take on almost cheap equipment:


Sometimes I get envious of the quality of timber some of you get to play with. That would be close to the best timber I could get without going to specialist furniture grade stuff and I would have to pay through the nose for it. Sigh.


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## sparkyApis (Apr 9, 2021)

So far I have built two long hives, two bait boxes and around seventy frames for the price of two sheets of 12mm ply and some screws, glue and the like, everything else has been scrap or recycled building material. So far I have spent around $200 for things like bee suit, smoker, feeder, slotted bottom board, bamboo skewers and so on. My bees have been swarm captures, three so far, two of which are powering on, one lost its queen. That's cheap enough for starting a new hobby from scratch and a lot of fun along the way.

I'm another Retired Old Fart so the time to do the building is perhaps not so hard to find. I suspect many of our money saving approaches come at a significant cost in time but then again, I suppose that is true for many hobbies.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

jtgoral said:


> Please note that one can use regular 6 brood frames or if the brood frame plastic foundation is rotated by 90deg it can be hung in two boxes (12 narrow-toll frames) and this will make Polish Warsaw Regular Hive, close to Ukrainian Hive.
> 
> My setup is 3x 6FR over 6FR so that I can put 2x 10FR regular Lang supper boxes above QE. The other thing is that it can be made as "Horned Hive" (Rogaty Ul, popular in Ukraine and Hungary).


@jtgoral,
Here is a vid of essentially the same model that you make - same usage too.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

GregV said:


> @jtgoral,
> Here is a vid of essentially the same model that you make - same usage too.
> ...


If I am not wrong he can use 1/2 Dadant frame in single box or full Dadant in two boxes.

My are for Lang deep and medium frames. I have 'horns' pointing down and there is a 1/8in gap between a horn in upper box and a handle in the lower box. This way it is easy to use a hive tool leverage when separating boxes glued with propolis.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

sparkyApis said:


> Sometimes I get envious of the quality of timber some of you get to play with. That would be close to the best timber I could get without going to specialist furniture grade stuff and I would have to pay through the nose for it. Sigh.


so there mush be dude over there who saw logs.
troll around for one and see if he has "scraps" you can have or buy a log or 2 and have him cut it.

We cleaned up some winter weather felled trees on out hunting property.
I helped saw them last week, we got 2300 board feet. 

or find some where that gets a lot of gear in with shipping containers and use that stuff.

seek and ye shall find...

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

jtgoral said:


> If I am not wrong he can use 1/2 Dadant frame in single box or full Dadant in two boxes.
> 
> My are for Lang deep and medium frames. I have 'horns' pointing down and there is a 1/8in gap between a horn in upper box and a handle in the lower box. This way it is easy to use a hive tool leverage when separating boxes glued with propolis.


You are correct - his are Dadants.

Yes - agree about the "horns" pointing down (I like to call them "pegs").
After reviewing the materials about both UP and DOWN ways, I chose to go with the pegs-down on my CVH setup.
The original peg-up design is created for the commercial trailer setup - where you slide the boxes in/out - the peg-up setup works best there.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

Peg down certainly means less care need be taken when moving boxes off and setting them down. With the heavy langs this fall I could barely keep the box up let alone worry about setting it down gently. My bees would be less upset if I could set the boxes down easier.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ursa_minor said:


> Peg down certainly means less care need be taken when moving boxes off and setting them down.


Yes, and more.
In general, the peg-ups work best when one has a snug row of hives - rather a commercial setup - you slide by boxes in and out of the row.
When hives are standing apart (more likely for the hobbyist) - peg-down is better.


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## sparkyApis (Apr 9, 2021)

Gray Goose said:


> so there mush be dude over there who saw logs.
> troll around for one and see if he has "scraps" you can have or buy a log or 2 and have him cut it.


All good ideas GG but my difficulty starts with the logs, they are just not readily obtainable here in that sort of quality. I see videos of people building barns in US with what looks like 6 by 8's or larger, straight, even grain, pretty much knot free and I just drool. The only place I have seen timber like that is in some of the 150 year old wool stores and warehouses near old sailing ship ports and even that was probably imported. Most of the remaining old growth native forest has been locked by the greenies and is no longer managed so is prone to devastating bushfires. We have extensive pine plantations (Pinus radiata) but the majority of the older plantations were burnt about forty years ago and only now are we starting to see sizes like 10 by 2's becoming available again in decent grades. Most of the smaller mill towns dependent on forest logging are now ghost towns. I was just remarking that some of you have a vastly different quality of resource to work with and I wish I could get my little bungrabbers on some of it.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

sparkyApis said:


> I see videos of people building barns in US with what looks like 6 by 8's or larger, straight, even grain, pretty much knot free and I just drool.


Yes, but look at the honking huge growth rings.








2 X 10 I bought a few years ago for a scaffold walk board, so picked through the top layers of the stack for the best. Straight and knot free at a price of time or money, but still nothing like what my grand parents could get when they were young.

BTW it was commandeered for a recent (non beekeeping) project...


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

sparkyApis said:


> All good ideas GG but my difficulty starts with the logs, they are just not readily obtainable here in that sort of quality. I see videos of people building barns in US with what looks like 6 by 8's or larger, straight, even grain, pretty much knot free and I just drool. The only place I have seen timber like that is in some of the 150 year old wool stores and warehouses near old sailing ship ports and even that was probably imported. Most of the remaining old growth native forest has been locked by the greenies and is no longer managed so is prone to devastating bushfires. We have extensive pine plantations (Pinus radiata) but the majority of the older plantations were burnt about forty years ago and only now are we starting to see sizes like 10 by 2's becoming available again in decent grades. Most of the smaller mill towns dependent on forest logging are now ghost towns. I was just remarking that some of you have a vastly different quality of resource to work with and I wish I could get my little bungrabbers on some of it.


Well I see the problem.
you need to start a timber import company.....
ya in places it has little value as it is plentiful, next place can't get it.



GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

William Bagwell said:


> Yes, but look at the honking huge growth rings.


Yep not a good recommendation!

I had some with growth rings approaching 1/2" thick. Terribly prone to distortion with changes in moisture. Hugh difference in hardness between winter and summer wood. Put in ground contact it would rot out in 2 years. Really demanded predrilled holes even for thin shanked nails, let alone screws. Came as lagging in an overseas shipment so dont know what it is. Sure does not act like our white pine!


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## Wil-7 (Sep 4, 2021)

I recently bought some pine boards from a Home Depot near me and during my build project, they split and needed predrilled, and I even put glue in nail holes for an added securing measure. The boards came from Switzerland and had large growth rings. The ends were so porous that I think the boards would soak up water like a sponge. Home Depot must think highly of them though because they were rater expensive.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Wil-7 said:


> I recently bought some pine boards from a Home Depot near me and during my build project, they split and needed predrilled, and I even put glue in nail holes for an added securing measure. The boards came from Switzerland and had large growth rings. The ends were so porous that I think the boards would soak up water like a sponge. Home Depot must think highly of them though because they were rater expensive.


That certainly fits the description of what I had. Totally no comparison to white pine. Norway pine or Red pine is slightly harder than white pine but still easy to work with. Here what we call Jack pine is harder, knottier, warps, and more split prone. I have seen commercial equipment made out of each and dont have much use for the latter.

I dont know what to call that pine you describe or how it grows but it is useless for bee equipment.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Wil-7 said:


> I recently bought some pine boards from a Home Depot near me and during my build project, they split and needed predrilled, and I even put glue in nail holes for an added securing measure. The boards came from Switzerland and had large growth rings. The ends were so porous that I think the boards would soak up water like a sponge. Home Depot must think highly of them though because they were rater expensive.


Wil
is there Amish down there?
here there are some nd several places have piles of wood for sale, have not checked the price but it is local.

maybe try "sawmills near me" in a search, reach out to them, I woud think you can get pine for a buck or less a square foot and make a dryer for the 24 inch pieces and still come out OK

or if you are up for a road trip
Amish sawmills in Michigan

or nearer search on Amish sawmills in Ohio

BTW I use 10 inch and 7 Inch pine boards to make the hives, do have a 13 inch thickness planner, table saw.

GG


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## Wil-7 (Sep 4, 2021)

Gray Goose said:


> Wil
> is there Amish down there?
> here there are some nd several places have piles of wood for sale, have not checked the price but it is local.
> 
> ...


As a matter of fact, we have a lot of Amish near me. I have mostly delt with some who have been quite good friends, but they own tack shops where I bought and traded in some horse saddles. I did buy locust posts from an Amishman so that I could fence off my pasture years ago and the only other Amishman that I have seen recently was one that dropped by to offer me $8000 to chop down my 30-acre hardwoods. Not !


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Wil-7 said:


> As a matter of fact, we have a lot of Amish near me. I have mostly delt with some who have been quite good friends, but they own tack shops where I bought and traded in some horse saddles. I did buy locust posts from an Amishman so that I could fence off my pasture years ago and the only other Amishman that I have seen recently was one that dropped by to offer me $8000 to chop down my 30-acre hardwoods. Not !


ok then
ask the one who wanted to chop down your woods if he has white Pine, best Norway pine Ok white spruce OK, or Hemlock ok of 7 inch (medium) or 10 inch(deep) for sale kiln dried. compare to HD prices for the junk they carry and you may have another option. when he chops down peoples woods, at times there is a pine or 2 in the mix.

the hardwood ends up flooring (good stuff) or horse stall wall material (seconds)
IMO basswood would make hives as well.

GG


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

GG, If you use milled lumber for hives does it need to sit for a year to dry? Just asking because our son just bought a sawmill and personally I can't wait for it to be in operation.


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## plantman (May 30, 2020)

Depends on wood.You can always make a homemade kiln.to speed process.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

I think the plan is to put it in a large shed with fans. I am slightly impatient to get my hands on the wood with the high prices in the stores our own will be nice. I guess it is now time to learn about the proper moisture content for lumber.


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## plantman (May 30, 2020)

I may have a link.I have a lot of cedar on my property.Lots of standing dead...still good wood just different..


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## plantman (May 30, 2020)

Maybe interesting to some.
I couldn't get it to load
Moisture Content and Wood Hives
native beehives.com


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

You have to stack the freshly cut wood with slats between each board to allow airflow on all sides for it to dry without fungus.
Start your stack on a very even surface to help keep the boards square.
Keep it dry but you must allow air circulation, so a shed not covered with a tarp.
You can start drying the larger cuts some before finish sawing but I think high speed/feed saws prefer green. 
There are more than a few kilns (in my neck of the woods) who can accelerate the process.
But you then have to add transportation to the expense sheet, as well. 

What is totally cool about milling your own is you can make thicker boxes for the insulation value.
Or a rough sawed interior surface to give the bugs better traction.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

ursa_minor said:


> GG, If you use milled lumber for hives does it need to sit for a year to dry? Just asking because our son just bought a sawmill and personally I can't wait for it to be in operation.


depends
a "dead tree" can be dried for a shorter time. old barn beams can be used fairly quick, generally full of nails so care must be applied or the blade bill can get big fast.
as it stood for the pine I had milled we cut the trees in winter, cut the logs in spring, It is stacked now.
I bring 4-5 hundred feet into the shop re stack and sticker it. As I have wood heat, in a month or 2 of steady stove use (doing that now) it is dry enough to use.
a)I add a 1/16 to allow for some drying shrinkage, so 9 5/8 is 9 11/16 
b)If you wood has "bugs" then the kiln can help kill off those and the eggs etc.

any one near you have a kiln? if you can afford or barter kiln dryed is a better starting point, I have never did the kiln thing.
A summer of air drying, and a month or 2 in the shop, with the heat on has been ok for my needs.

your sons toy is a great thing, now after a storm you can touch base with road crews and get a log or 2 and start to make stuff, it will be great fun. A few hard wood 3x4 to make stands, a shed with 2 walls and a roof to put lumber and bees in.
Unfortunately endless projects when the wood is plentiful.

if he has a mill, you could make a kiln and charge a percentage or cash for the dry down.
he will in time have many people asking "do you know any one with a kiln"

16 foot X 12 foot room with a heat source is all you need. I would lean toward an exterior slab fired stove with water pipes to radiators in the room sides. fork lift access would be nice. the kilns here I have contacted are booked months in advance.

be sure to sticker and pile the wood the day it is cut, outdoors the first month is best, out of the sun is nice else the boards dry too fast on the sunny side. place weight on top to help keep boards straight.

I make the top layer be the crap wood split rotten spots wayne edge etc, then sticker, old tin is the next layer, then 4 to 6 inches of slabs on the tin.

GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Here is a link to some ideas on seasoning with DIY kilns. Which to build? Solar or DH Kiln in Drying and Processing

If you cut boards in summer from live trees and plan it for hive bodies etc. where width is critical dont be stingy with the shrinkage allowance. The fellow who cuts pine for me does a full 7 inches and 10 inches for mediums and deeps and when dry sometimes are hit and miss to clean up for 6 5/8" and 9 5/8". I had a tree cut up this summer and got him to cut to 8 and 12". I always need the narrow pieces resulting for something anyways.

I have not milled myself but did quite a bit of repairs on them for others. GG is right about the nails, staples, barbed wire, bullets etc. Anything that has been near a fence or boys building tree houses or tree stands, is a risk. If you cut for some one else, have a policy understood that they pay for blade damage!


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

Gray Goose said:


> your sons toy is a great thing, now after a storm you can touch base with road crews and get a log or 2 and start to make stuff, it will be great fun.


That would be great, but we have an endless supply of wood. When we started beef farming over 40 years ago marginal farming land, that was almost all forest, was seen as 'junk' land for the local grain farmers. Clearing it, and removing the roots to get it good enough for a grain crop, when wood was cheap and virtually unsellable, was not worth their efforts. So, as young new beef farmers, we bought the junk land that had small pastures but lots of trees. Now we have an endless supply of Birch, Poplar, Spruce and Tamarack. With wood prices escalating it won't take many coral planks, or barn wood to make back the cost of a mill, well that's the rational for the mill anyway.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

ursa_minor said:


> That would be great, but we have an endless supply of wood. When we started beef farming over 40 years ago marginal farming land, that was almost all forest, was seen as 'junk' land for the local grain farmers. Clearing it, and removing the roots to get it good enough for a grain crop, when wood was cheap and virtually unsellable, was not worth their efforts. So, as young new beef farmers, we bought the junk land that had small pastures but lots of trees. Now we have an endless supply of Birch, Poplar, Spruce and Tamarack. With wood prices escalating it won't take many coral planks, or barn wood to make back the cost of a mill, well that's the rational for the mill anyway.


Tamarack, sweet that was the old preferred barn wood, gets really hard over time, best built 1/2 green.

nope likely a 3 year payback if you are either building animal space or repairing. Sawing was a family thing My grand dad had one then my uncle had one , we cut every couple years, for one reason or another.
the birch makes nice T&G if you need to panel some wall.

use the old timers schedules of cutting the trees IE when Dormant,, big difference in how long wood lasts if cut in mid summer or during the right moon in winter. 

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Dirt cheap insulation.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

I use old down pillows, but I wrap them in plastic first so the down doesn't get wet and loose insulation value. I like the coat, I have a few pretty heavy winter coats that we used for farm chores and are still good enough for something like this.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ursa_minor said:


> I use old down pillows, but I wrap them in plastic


Right.
What you don't see in that picture - plastic film is separating the coat from the bees (and keeping the coat dry).


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Another version of dirt cheap insulation.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

ursa_minor said:


> GG, If you use milled lumber for hives does it need to sit for a year to dry? Just asking because our son just bought a sawmill and personally I can't wait for it to be in operation. [...] I guess it is now time to learn about the proper moisture content for lumber.


You can get yourself a fairly inexpensive moisture meter - I'd recommend it if you will be working with harvested lumber:



https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/moisture-meters/71986-digital-moisture-meter



You can also do a very good (and nearly free) test with an oven. Take a hunk of wood, weigh it, put it in the oven on low for about 24 hours, weigh it again, divide the difference in weight by the dry weight and you will have the moisture content percentage:

((wet weight - dry weight) % dry weight) * 100 = moisture percentage

Here's a pretty good article on what the moisture content should be:








Acceptable Moisture Levels in Wood - Knowing the Moisture Content


The acceptable moisture level for wood objects used indoors is generally 6% to 8% for wood flooring & 9% to 14% for construction. Read more to find out.



www.wagnermeters.com




Some woods change a great deal when drying, some do not change much at all.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

This came up:


> Is the ots queen rearing book worth the $75 price tag?











Ots queen rearing book


I need some opinions. Is the ots queen rearing book worth the $75 price tag? There is a lot of info on YouTube about the method. Is there a lot more info in the book that isn't out there on the internet already? I know when you consider the cost of bees it could pay for itself in no time.




www.beesource.com





Let me call the beekeeping books - equipment.
I gotta say, I will buy no more books on beekeeping.
Not worth it to me (while I should admire people who spent the time and they need to be rewarded at least for that).

What I already have will re-sell or just lend people for free.
Never found anything in the books that can not be found out for free now days.
Moreover, some of the books had bad influence on me - so those valuable dollars were poorly spent, I confess.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

One of the very inexpensive hives is a nucleus box made from 2 wooden ends and a coroplast political sign wrapped around it and stapled. I usually make them 3 layers thick for structural strength. Double stick tape laminates the layers together, but glue also works.

See y'all out there at 8:01 pm on election night....

Actually, since I went and shot my mouth off about this years ago here on Beesource, I've met 3 other beekeepers out "harvesting" political signs on election night! 

A sherriff stopped me, I explained what I was up to, and he laughed, then he told me where there were a bunch more! BTW, if it's a young cop, tell him you are a candidate's aide.

The bucket bee vacuum is another low-price beekeeper must-have, and some of the swarm traps I've seen were definitely low-dollar. My favorite is a square bucket with top-bar sticks that get removed from the trap and screwed (comb and all) into a regular brood frame and let them continue building it out.

About the only problem with the "dirt cheap" mentality is that we often forget to do a time / labor analysis and fail to build larger-scale efficiency into our beekeeping system. An example is making 2 home-buildt extractors that are hand-cranked. You do not get the advantage of an automated spin acceleration cycle that frees up your time to be loading/unloading the other one! Spend the money on those electronic controllers and get those frames back out to the hives before dinner!

Cheap for cheap's sake has it's limits. Cheap where it is smart to do so frees up money for the things that make you a better beekeeper. Those guys over in China are going to see Rube Goldberg making a forklift out of bamboo, bailing wire, chewing gum and duct tape, and then try to go patent it! Meanwhile, I'm bidding on a Swinger at an auction.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

kilocharlie said:


> Actually, since I went and shot my mouth off about this years ago here on Beesource, I've met 3 other beekeepers out "harvesting" political signs on election night!


Luckily have a coworker / neighbor who formally worked for the county road department, and is still friends with them. Plus he knows some on the state road crew. Scored a nice stack of small signs last year! Noticed that most advertising signs are only printed on one side verses the double side printing on political signs.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

William Bagwell said:


> Noticed that most advertising signs are only printed on one side verses the double side printing on political signs.


There's something very right about being able to see the printing on something like that.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregV said:


> This came up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if you made 3 or 4 queens the book was paid for.
most books you can read a couple times and resell.
I have only 1 book , but it is not been a poor investment.

Led you astray,  hmmm so a believer then a non believer, your back now from being astray so all is well.
I've lead myself astray as well so not sure I would blame the book.......

I have every Louis Lamour Western ever printed,, I call books entertainment, not equiptment, maybe it feels better then.

GG


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

"Astray" .... I find myself being herded almost. You folks are like Border Collies.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> if you made 3 or 4 queens the book was paid for.
> most books you can read a couple times and resell.
> I have only 1 book , but it is not been a poor investment.
> 
> ...


I made more than 3-4 queens without a single book bought about queen making. 
So it does not pay to buy a book just for that.

A book that led me astray somewhat - yep, that Michael Bush book in a hard cover ($55 on Amazon now).
His web site more so, to be honest... But that is free at least.








The Practical Beekeeper: Beekeeping Naturally: Bush, Michael: 9781614760641: Amazon.com: Books


Buy The Practical Beekeeper: Beekeeping Naturally on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders



www.amazon.com





At least I did not pay a full price for it - someone sold a bundle of books for, like, $25.
Was a good deal for the bundle - and the best book in the bundle was actually the "beekeeping for the idiots".
I just gave away the entire bundle to my "student"; he needs it more.

So, the "dirt cheap beekeeping" lesson - really, don't buy any instructional books.
Most worthwhile reading is available on-line.
There is so much of it I could never read it all.

The only worthwhile reason to get a book - so to have one in your collection and truly enjoy it.
I wish to obtain a copy of Eva Crane's History of Beekeeping for that, but it is out of print and is expensive.


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## Wil-7 (Sep 4, 2021)

Easy guys, I am still on "Beekeeping for Dummies."


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

kilocharlie said:


> Actually, since I went and shot my mouth off about this years ago here on Beesource, I've met 3 other *beekeepers out "harvesting" political signs on election night!*


LOL
Now we are talking business.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

kilocharlie said:


> Actually, since I went and shot my mouth off about this years ago here on Beesource, I've met 3 other beekeepers out "harvesting" political signs on election night!


It's called theft in most parts of the world. 

I guess you are ok with the foks that drive around california in January 'harvesting' hives they happen to find, so they can truck them off elsewhere and rent them out for pollination ?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Yes a lot of candidates will use their signs for repeat campaigns and do have a value on them. Most places have regulations as to when they are responsible to have them taken down. All depends!


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

grozzie2 said:


> It's called theft in most parts of the world.


Here we call those signs "littering" and after the election, they are simply trash. You will rarely see the campaigns go out and clean up the mess they made after an election, so most areas welcome the cleanup help. In our area, a week after the elections they are fair game.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Lee Bussy said:


> You will rarely see the campaigns go out and clean up the mess they made after an election,


Sadly but this is true.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Lee Bussy said:


> Here we call those signs "littering" and after the election, they are simply trash. You will rarely see the campaigns go out and clean up the mess they made after an election, so most areas welcome the cleanup help. In our area, a week after the elections they are fair game.


Must be a sad part of the world you live in.

Around here, those signs are gone within 3 days, the folks that put them out go and pick them up, it's the law. Most are on private property to begin with so a homeowner will just walk out front and pick it up themself as they are the ones that put it there. Waltzing in to take them is not only theft, it comes with a helping of trespass too. Many get re-used if the same candidate is running in a susequent election.

But I get it, beekeepers to the south of us apparently have no qualms helping themselves to somebody else's stuff, it's only an issue when somebody else helps themselves to their stuff.

kilocharlie even suggests, if you get called to task in the process, just lie to the police questioning you. The sad part of that, it doesn't even surprise me.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

grozzie2 said:


> Must be a sad part of the world you live in.


Indeed. All these personal liberties are tough.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

OK, guys, let's keep this to the subject of* "dirt cheap beekeeping".*

Yes, it involves picking up trash and dumpster diving and even occasional trespassing.
Yes - sad to see.
No, not everyone is willing OR able to pay for every little piece of plastic or a nail or related worthless junk (sold for money).
Too bad.
LOL


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

grozzie2 said:


> Must be a sad part of the world you live in.
> 
> Around here, those signs are gone within 3 days, the folks that put them out go and pick them up, it's the law. Most are on private property to begin with so a homeowner will just walk out front and pick it up themself as they are the ones that put it there. Waltzing in to take them is not only theft, it comes with a helping of trespass too. Many get re-used if the same candidate is running in a susequent election.
> 
> ...


Keep in Mind Grozzie, they are "stealing" from politicians. you know the folks with one hand in your pocket to "invest in the children"
I guess you all up there still respect them.

tongue in cheek

GG


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## birddog (May 10, 2016)

Making deeps from shipping waist 1x6 pine . After collecting for 2 years and ending with a variety of lengths and widths none of it was ready or suitable to make deep nuc bodys in its current state. I wasn't crazy over the idea of edge gluing. Even with tight bond 3. So I decided to biscut joint over the entire length by cutting 1 blade width × 3/8 + slot in 1 edge of the boards to be joined " the + means you will need a little over to compensate for saw tooth angle unless you have a flat top blade " . Then ripping a biscut off one unslotted edge to match your blade width keeping in mind you need to allow clearance for glue. . Apply glue inside slot and edge to be glued , install biscut and fit boards together. Clamp glue joint to proper glue squeeze " almost all of it so no need to apply over liberally " whipe excess glue then shoot 1/2 narrow crown staples staggered to each side of the joint through the board and biscut creating a mechanical Fastining in addition to the glue. This can also be accomplished with brads


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

good job @birddog ,
I some times put the end crack under the handle, then run the handle (2.5x1) the whole length.
do make wrapping a bit more of a challenge, But the extra wood over the crack helps.

where there is a will there is a way

GG


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

In all honesty, I only take the political signs posted on public property. Several of my friends know I want them, and ask around their neighborhoods for the leftovers, saving them for me. It's funny how the signs from the same parties all come from the same neighborhoods every election. Donkeys tend to live near other Donkeys, Elephants with Elephants. Why people get emotionally hung upon it is beyond me...I know I'm just a brick in the wall, and my 1 vote does little to change things, so why get one's knickers in a knot?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Birddog - That is a "floating tongue" joint, if I'm seeing it right - both pieces are grooved and a separate tongue strip inserted. Nice work.

I'm using a "finger glue joint" router bit and then doweling and/or biscuit jointing for even more strength before gluing and clamping.

BTW - put the small side of the joint down, so that the smile handles or cleat handles are pulling on solid wood (not across the joint) and the smaller sections are just along for the ride. 

****
Question for the whole team...

Which do you think will last longer outdoors... leaving the edge-joined splice ending in a notch rather than on a finger so that the end grain with the joint is covered, or leaving the joined end grain ending on a finger so that the joint is as long as possible? 

I ask because I going to be making a bunch of them real soon.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

kilocharlie said:


> Birddog - That is a "floating tongue" joint, if I'm seeing it right - both pieces are grooved and a separate tongue strip inserted. Nice work.
> 
> I'm using a "finger glue joint" router bit and then doweling and/or biscuit jointing for even more strength before gluing and clamping.
> 
> ...


Can't quite picture it. Do you have a sketch?

I would alternate between sides and ends, with the wide piece up on the sides, and down on the ends. That way is stronger. If all the same, the joint can come loose all around, and you have two shallower boxes. When they alternate even if the joints come apart the box holds together because of the overlap in the corners.

I am seriously looking at a legal-size 3 drawer file cabinet at the local Habitat store. It started at $10.00 and will be 75% off in a bit over a week. Hard to resist. 3 horizontal hives for $2.50. Just need frames and a few bits to close off extra space.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

kilocharlie said:


> Question for the whole team...
> 
> Which do you think will last longer outdoors... leaving the edge-joined splice ending in a notch rather than on a finger so that the end grain with the joint is covered, or leaving the joined end grain ending on a finger so that the joint is as long as possible?
> 
> I ask because I going to be making a bunch of them real soon.


cannot see that in me head.

any way to set a corner together to show a pic of.
Or drawing.

GG


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## birddog (May 10, 2016)

Kolo , in my opinion. Time and effort are better spent on sealing the end grain thus protecting the edge joint


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

The finger glue joint router bit makes a zig-zag. You have to set the height very carefully and the thicknesses of the joining boards needs to be the same, +/- .002 inches. The joining piece, just like the finger joints on our bee box sides, must fit together, and so are complementary shapes - that means a different setting of the router bit height above the table by one whole finger with.

For additional stiffness, I drill the joining sides with a dowelling jig and insert dowels, gluing the whole shebang at once - no small task and got'ta move out AND get them clamped before the glue dries.

I thought that alternating the small side of the joint around the box would be better at first, but it turns out that small-side-down all the way around is stronger when lifting with cleat handles.

The lockmiter joint is a 45 degree angle with a single zig-zag in the middle. Again, bit setting height is critical. If you run both joining boards flat on the table and rout them, you can flip one over for a straight joint. If you run one flat and one at 90 degrees to the table along the fence, you can make a 90 degree joint that has almost zero end grain exposed to the weather. The lockmiter bit works best after running all parts through the planer and they are +/- .00025 inch variation in thickness.

Either joint leaves a joint line long ways along the side of the box. That joint line can either end in a notch and thus buried under the finger of the joining side, or left long and exposed as end grain at the end of a finger tab where it will weather. Shorter and covered by the adjoining finger means less exposure to weather, longer means a longer glue joint and thus a bit stronger, but what about 20 years later after weather has had it's way with the wood and glue?

Does anybody have experience with joined wood outside for many years, and which strategy will last longer?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

An ASCii graphics rarely works out on forum formats, but here's a try

<
I
<
I
<
I
< one side of a Finger Glue Joint router bit, mine has 4 fingers over about 1-3/4 inches of bit height.
The fingers have carbide tips about 1/8 inch thick, tapers into the valleys and the fingers protrude about 3/16ths of an inch out form the shaft. The shaft is 1/2 inch diameter,

******


........../
......../
.......>
..<
../
/ One side of a lockmiter joint router bit (ignore the periods - they're for spacing - it's supposed to be 45 degrees)
This is upside down, because my keyboard does not have a down slash.


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## ncbeez (Aug 25, 2015)

kilocharlie said:


> The finger glue joint router bit makes a zig-zag. You have to set the height very carefully and the thicknesses of the joining boards needs to be the same, +/- .002 inches. The joining piece, just like the finger joints on our bee box sides, must fit together, and so are complementary shapes - that means a different setting of the router bit height above the table by one whole finger with.
> 
> For additional stiffness, I drill the joining sides with a dowelling jig and insert dowels, gluing the whole shebang at once - no small task and got'ta move out AND get them clamped before the glue dries.
> 
> ...


Wow! You must be a perfectionist Kilocharlie. I am a machinist making aircraft engine parts, so I am familiar with those tight tolerances. I often use a dial caliper in the woodshop too. You have to have good tools and sharp cutters to maintain that kind of tolerances consistently which may knock some out of the "dirt cheap beekeeping " experience but if you already have the equipment that's a different story. I can relate to what you are saying though after being very precise in metal working I tend to want my woodworking close tolerances too!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Dirt cheap hive from a retired fridge:

(504) Inspecting the Fridge Hive: How the Ladies are going | The Bush Bee Man - YouTube


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

GregB said:


> Dirt cheap hive from a retired fridge:
> 
> (504) Inspecting the Fridge Hive: How the Ladies are going | The Bush Bee Man - YouTube


Why?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

jtgoral said:


> Why?


Fast construction.
Well Insulated.
Ergonomic (for the keeper).
Large.
Free.
An excellent functional hive overall.

A drawback - ugly looking piece of trash, best hidden away from public view.

Somehow people traditionally associate beekeeping with woodworking. It is a limited, one-sided view.
Part of the appeal to me is that I beekeeping nicely fits with trash reclamation.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

GregB said:


> Fast construction.
> Well Insulated.
> Ergonomic (for the keeper).
> Large.
> ...


I am from a different planet I guess.... But it is insulated
How many of those you can fit into your backyard?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

jtgoral said:


> I am from a different planet I guess.... But it is insulated
> *How many of those you can fit into your backyard?*


None.

But no need to imagine everyone lives on 0.25 acre in a suburb.
This is America, for Pit's sake.
It is big and diverse, jtgoral. 
And.... I forgot our Canadians friends - they have even more space to play with.

IF I had a farm, I'd be collecting disabled commercial freezers (*the chest type*) everywhere.
This type - a perfect horizontal hive as-is.
A no-brainer IMO.
Fridges are OK too; but the chest freezers are perfect.

(....thinking to myself, actually, IF I could paint it camo, maybe I could sneak one or two into my backyard.... need to look into this).


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

GregB said:


> IF I had a farm, I'd be collecting disabled commercial freezers (the chest type) everywhere.
> This type - a perfect horizontal hive as-is.
> A no-brainer IMO.


I am on a farm and I think this might be something to think about. They could be painted and made to look pretty good. IMO we trash way too much stuff well before it's time, or fail to find other uses for them. I have a large freezer behind my greenhouse and it is an excellent mouse proof, water tight storage container for my gardening pots, dirt etc.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregB said:


> IF I had a farm, I'd be collecting disabled commercial freezers (*the chest type*) everywhere.
> This type - a perfect horizontal hive as-is.


I just went into the basement and just measured my own chest freezer.
Nearly perfect fit for the Ukrainian frame - just need to screw in frame rests.
Drill through an entrance.
Attach some handles to the sides.
Paint camo style.
Done.

I need to seriously think of a scrounged freezer... Hmmm.... Too easy!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ursa_minor said:


> I am on a farm and I think this might be something to think about.


You really should, Ursa.

The insulation is to kill for.
The only thing - some sort of ventilation needs to be worked out since the freezer will seal tightly.
Perhaps the entrances need to be more aggressive.
OR some ventilation needs to be cut through the floor - akin to the foam hives.

BTW - the thing is VERY, VERY light too (considering that hardware is to be removed).
I knew in my head that a chest freezer would make a great hive.
But it truly seems a very easy project.
Just stupidly easy - my type.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

GregB said:


> The only thing - some sort of ventilation needs to be worked out since the freezer will seal tightly.
> Perhaps the entrances need to be more aggressive.


Well a hole saw and a few of those larger disc entrances could help, pop in a piece of plastic pipe so the bees can't access the insulation.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

GregB said:


> And.... I forgot our Canadians friends - they have even more space to play with.
> 
> IF I had a farm, I'd be collecting disabled commercial freezers (*the chest type*) everywhere.


I am a Canadian, and I do live on an acreage. I certainly dont want my place to start looking like a scrap yard, have enough places up and down the road like that already.

I'll stick to the wax dipped boxes from Lewis & Sons. they are more conveniant, wont turn into a rust pile sitting out in the rain, and wont start leaching chemicals out of the refrigeration system as it rusts away out in the weather.


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## Bawb (10 mo ago)

Hi everyone great forum! I'm a "new-bee" I acquired most of my stuff on Craigslist so this forum is great! I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas for beekeeping suits and veils. I dont want to spend $200 for this which seems absurd and the $100 suits get bad reviews, which quite frankly seems ridiculously priced too
Thanks
Bob


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> Paint camo style.
> Done.


Now your thinking!


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

*This is THE BEST TREAD anyone has ever started *(in my opinion)!!!!!! Way to go crofter! As some of you may already know I am just begining beekeeping and just built a lazutin hive. I decided though that I would just buy all the materials needed from Lowes (forgive me, but for my FIRST hive I figured it would be okay to follow a PLAN). The cost for it ended up being about $250 or so. But the frames and foundation added another $200-$300. We have now spent about $550 dollars on "stuff" and don't have the bees yet. Some of this cost will be transfered onto future hives though as I have surplus (nails, paint, frames, etc.). *I wanted to keep bees in a way so that it would bee profitable.* Otherwise it's just an expensive hobby. Great job guys and I LOVE THE JUNK PILE IDEA!


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> IF I had a farm


Have you thought about going rural. I moved from the capitol of VA to a smallish town. I've heard you have more than just bees. No dought you can do TONS of gardening, etc. in the city but if you ever wanted to do more in agriculture the farm hosts many new opportunities.
P.S. Maybe your city is better than Richmond, last time I went back, I just couldn't relax until we got back into the countryside. Maybe there's a good reason. 
Just a thought for those still in densly populated areas. Most city's are unstustanable, so try and be a good example to everyone *and produce as much food as you can. *Plant a garden, some fruit trees, set up a hive or two, have some herbs in the window...

Keep Producing, BEEJ🐝🐝🐝


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

grozzie2 said:


> I am a Canadian, and I do live on an acreage. I certainly dont want my place to start looking like a scrap yard, have enough places up and down the road like that already.


Nothing exactly scrappy about this fridge-hive.
In fact, from a distance you can not tell it is a piece of junk - all that is needed.
People are about perceptions - well, turn those perceptions around, just the same.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> Have you thought about going rural.


In a bigger picture, few beehives are not the main criteria for choosing the place to live.
Not for us.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> he cost for it ended up being about $250 or so. But the frames and foundation added another $200-$300. We have now spent about $550 dollars on "stuff" and don't have the bees yet.


BEEJ,
This would not be my way of "beekeeping". 
I can see one spending that much ($550) on good tools, but not on a *single hive. *

In fact, one reason I went for it - the bee having is very affordable and can be as cheap as dirt - it is really up to you. There is nothing that requires one to spend any money on this stupid hobby.

How much you spend really tells more about you personally than it is required. 

I am fully committed to the dirt cheap beekeeping and this is how I mean it.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> Now your thinking!


Right.
OR - paint it bright and pretty - just another (opposite) approach.
The people around will never know any better.
Just a hive.

I think I will be scanning the "Free" sections of our local sites for a free freezer. Meant to do it, but years quickly flew by and I blew few opportunities already.
I could use more resource hives if made quickly and cheaply.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Greg posted onto my 'A Tale of Two Hives' thread yesterday, and I was just compiling a reply (pitched so as to hopefully be of interest to others) when I noticed this thread, and what little I'd already written may be of more relevance here ...

Hi Greg - interesting post ...
When. having retired, I first returned to beekeeping, the one major potential problem which faced me was money, as *the 'necessary' beekeeping equipment which appeared to be required was so expensive.* But I gradually began to realise that this didn't have to be so - providing a different mind-set was adopted.

Expense is no longer a significant issue, and could be reduced even further if only I could cast-off the conditioning to which I've been exposed throughout my working life - but the need to fill-in nail holes and cracks, and then paint pallet-wood beehives to 'an acceptable standard' is psychological conditioning which I'm finding impossible to shake-off.
My only needs now are time and materials, and I've been very fortunate indeed to stumble across an obscene quantity of reasonable quality pallet wood. ( .. and so on.)

Very much agree that this is a brilliant thread: if a fridge-hive doesn't fit-in with your idea of what's acceptable - that's fine - there's really no need to be vocally negative about it. But, if you're just starting-out and you're not sure of how you'll take to the craft/hobby, or are not sure of what hive type to start with, or whatever - why not knock-up a QD (Quick'n'Dirty) fridge beehive and keep a few bees in it for a season, and see how you get on ?

I am so pleased that I started making my own woodenware from Day One of my re-start - I could have spent thousands otherwise.

If anyone's unsure about the wisdom of making something rudimentary - just stop and think about how bees have been kept, quite successfully, in the past: in hives made from woven straw and covered in cow dung, in baskets, and in crude boxes made by nailing a few boards together. In contrast, a converted freezer would be high-tech. 

And - if you use scrap wood, and went down the Top-Bar route, and managed to catch a swarm to stock it with - you could start-off beekeeping for almost nothing.(*)
best,
LJ

(*) The only piece of *necessary* beekeeping equipment I've purchased is a s/s smoker. (too difficult to DIY and make reasonably light). I made my own veil, and don't even own a hive tool (and wouldn't accept one now as a gift).


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

grozzie2 said:


> I am a Canadian, and I do live on an acreage. I certainly dont want my place to start looking like a scrap yard, have enough places up and down the road like that already.


Not necessarily a scrap yard. When you have enough room you can recycle objects without it being unsightly.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Bawb said:


> Hi everyone great forum! I'm a "new-bee" I acquired most of my stuff on Craigslist so this forum is great! I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas for beekeeping suits and veils. I dont want to spend $200 for this which seems absurd and the $100 suits get bad reviews, which quite frankly seems ridiculously priced too
> Thanks
> Bob


Bob,
Speaking of suits and veils - it really depends on what type of the bees you handle.
Aside from the AHBs, you can mostly get away with a chеаp mosquito net placed over the baseball-type hat.
When I work my Italian/Carni bees - the only PPE I put on is $3-5 worth of mosquito head net combined with a long sleeve cotton shirt. This one:










Even to handle somewhat feisty mutts, all I have is cheap $25 jacket and $10-20 goatskin gloves.
$50 is the most I am willing to spend for a set of personal PPE.
Actually, I did spend $150 (+/-) - for *three *sets of jackets/gloves - so to cover my helpers when I need any.

Still - you MUST know you bees and know what you can get away with.
Spending hundreds of bucks for PPE and then run some mild pollinator bees - just not reasonable if not outright silly.

PS: IF you are in the AHB zone, however, I'd rather be ready and have a full suite handy as you never know what is coming your way.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> psychological conditioning


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> In a bigger picture, few beehives are not the main criteria for choosing the place to live.
> Not for us.


I totally understand.  Just wondered if you desired/ were able to try a "country" lifestyle. I know some people are just happy with where they are. Ahhh... contentment... I need to learn that.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> BEEJ,
> This would not be my way of "beekeeping".
> I can see one spending that much ($550) on good tools, but not on a *single hive. *
> 
> ...


I know I could have gone the "dirt cheap" way, but I decided, with the first hive it would just be easyier to bail out than be creative. I know that this can't keep occuring (unless it would make finacial sense),though. That $550 included extra wire, paint, (another whole hive worth of frames), nails, eyelets, and some wood and foam. So the cost minus the frames and extra paint, etc. was probably $200 or so. I admit this is the "bee palace" with 2 1/2'' thick framed walls filled with rigid foam insulation and the big roof twice as thick and insulated. So I know that I chose to go spend more than was required. In the future though I would like to try cheaper ways: like using sheep wool for insulation, rough sawn or scrap for lumber, etc. I'm partly torn bettween the pack rat, creative side of me and the standardized, professional side.
I appreciate the thoughts! Thanks Greg!


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> Right.
> OR - paint it bright and pretty - just another (opposite) approach.
> The people around will never know any better.
> Just a hive.


Yes! If you make it really attractive maybe the neighbor will be talked in to getting one!


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> I think I will be scanning the "Free" sections of our local sites for a free freezer. Meant to do it, but years quickly flew by and I blew few opportunities already.


That would be a smart idea. Don't know how you would if it would be easy to put into a vehicle, though. In my town I don't think many people would be giving away freezers (they would be cashing them in at the recycling center), but if one did show up you better act quick😄. 

Cheers, BEEJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> In my town I don't think many people would be giving away freezers (they would be cashing them in at the recycling center),


In my area it *costs *you to get rid of a broken freezer.

BTW, I already see one for $25.
But at the rate of me going there and getting it - it better be free, for me to bother with it. 
Me too cheap!


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> In my area it *costs *you to get rid of a broken freezer.


Really. That's funny. Well that could be a great idea! Imagine getting paid to bring back a luxurious hive!!!!😄


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

GregB said:


> In my area it *costs *you to get rid of a broken freezer.



Yup, in my area it costs to bring any large appliance to the recycle area of the dump, not to mention dump fees. And then they wonder why people keep them in their back 40, not to mention the poorer people who do not have access to a truck either.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

ursa_minor said:


> Yup, in my area it costs to bring any large appliance to the recycle area of the dump, not to mention dump fees. And then they wonder why people keep them in their back 40, not to mention the poorer people who do not have access to a truck either.


Well Ya'll should definitely give the freezer/ fridge hive a go! Come to think of it there are probably plenty of similar opportunities in my area as well.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Keeping the bees in computer boxes.
No - I don't have pictures of the live bees in the computer box nuc - but just trust me on this one.
(Simply back in 2017 I did not have a smart phone yet - to keep taking pictures about every little useless thing that I did).

No - bees will not chew and destroy the box (and there is always that duct tape roll to fix everything).
No - cardboard is not water-proof (you need to ensure that this hack is protected from the rain).
No - this box will not last you your lifetime; this is 1-2 seasons project (4-frame nuc for me).
No - it does not cost you anything, but some time and a little work (that internally inserted wooden scaffolding can be later reused for many projects)

Later I just caught up by building more proper wooden/plywood nuc hives.
But just in case I always keep around empty computer boxes.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregB said:


> No -* I don't have pictures of the live bees in the computer box nuc *- but just trust me on this one.
> (Simply back in 2017 I did not have a smart phone yet - to keep taking pictures about every little useless thing that I did).


Wrong. 
Found some pics.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> Keeping the bees in computer boxes.
> No - I don't have pictures of the live bees in the computer box nuc - but just trust me on this one.
> (Simply back in 2017 I did not have a smart phone yet - to keep taking pictures about every little useless thing that I did).
> 
> ...


This is amazing! The only drawbacks I see now is that it doesn't last as long, but for the price of $0.00 it seems hard to dispute.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> Wrong.
> Found some pics.
> 
> View attachment 68918
> ...


That is one of the coolest hacks I've ever seen!!! How did the bees do in it? Did it take long to set it up? Why did you put the carboard hive in a wooden one in the last photo? If you have more pics and stuff like this I would really, really, really, really, really, like to see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> That is one of the coolest hacks I've ever seen!!! How did the bees do in it? Did it take long to set it up? Why did you put the carboard hive in a wooden one in the last photo? If you have more pics and stuff like this I would really, really, really, really, really, like to see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Corrugated cardboard is an excellent material - warm, breathing, free, easy to manipulate and replace (and yet strong enough).
Yes - it is afraid of water and shor-term usage only.

I still use it as internal insulator (when need fill in the empty parts of hive, for an example).
Where in the past people used straw, today it can be the cardboard.

Box inside hive?
Like I said - "cardboard is not water-proof (you need to ensure that this hack is protected from the rain)."

If I had a walk-in shed or a barn, I'd happily use that to setup my cardboard hives - like a row of cardboard nucs.
But I don't and so the cardboard box usage is limited to me.
Why people with available sheds don't use the cardboard?
Because they maybe keep thinking in-the-box? 
I shared this idea long ago and more than once. But who cares? It's OK too.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> Why people with available sheds don't use the cardboard?
> Because they maybe keep thinking in-the-box?
> I shared this idea long ago and more than once. But who cares? It's OK too.


I think it's really cool! We do have a shed, but I would have to make sure it would be out of the way and don't know if the family would want one in there. But this is another cool trick for dirt cheap beekeeping. If you got anything else like this (cheap hacks, etc) I would love to see!


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

GregB said:


> Dirt cheap hive from a retired fridge:


Thought of this video when I saw this article:


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> Thought of this video when I saw this article:


Nice!
Them Czechs!


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## Uncle Bud (10 mo ago)

rangerpeterj said:


> I would like to think of my beekeeping hobby as on the cheap. One of my most favorite hobbies before beekeeping was wood working, then gardening. The wood working lead to beekeeping , looking for a wood project one winter my sister which is a beekeeper suggested I make some bee hives.That was in 2015 and now I'm hooked.I make all my wooden ware I'm a disciple of JohnO so my mite treatments is really cheap with 12 to 13 treatments of OAV. and I have very few winter losses because of JohnO ( thanks John).With that said I have more bees and students then I have time to handle. They call me cheap Pete at the bee club! I do enjoy beekeeping and Beesource.com


Looking for your JohnO. Can I get a little more info where he preaches? (since you are his disciple)


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

I have half a bucket of leftover redgard, which if you used it to paint those cardboard boxes they would stand up to water.

Also, florist boxes are typically made of waxed cardboard, which resists water pretty well. Stop by the florist shop and get some boxes. Used to use it for a sled during school recess back in the day.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Snatched up several these containers.
Not only I can use my mini framelets in these.
Regular Land frames of all sizes fit in these as well.

.....about 26" wide, 18" deep and 19" tall.......

Perfect containers for a variety of nucleus colonies.
I may move some of the mini colonies into these for the winter.
And/or will use for the spring nucleus projects.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

GregB said:


> Snatched up several these containers.
> Not only I can use my mini framelets in these.
> Regular Land frames of all sizes fit in these as well.
> 
> ...


Is that the bottom part dimensions?
I keep looking for these but the inside was not right. The top was the issue.
I too keep looking for these and did find a BIG one that would hold 10 frames. That will be next years project if I can get these too nucs to make it.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Tigger19687 said:


> *Is that the bottom part dimensions?*
> I keep looking for these but the inside was not right. The top was the issue.
> I too keep looking for these and did find a BIG one that would hold 10 frames. That will be next years project if I can get these too nucs to make it.


It is the total dimension.
The bottom part fits a Land deep frame.

These containers seem to be becoming popular to ship groceries. Supposed to fall apart in 4 years - unsure if want to bother with painting/reinforcing these or not. Whatever I fill like doing.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Some white latex paint will probably make it last a lot longer. Oil based enamel will melt it.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

GregB said:


> Snatched up several these containers.
> Not only I can use my mini framelets in these.
> Regular Land frames of all sizes fit in these as well.
> 
> ...


Beautiful. Paint those so they have some UV resistance and they will work well.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

GregB said:


> It is the total dimension.
> The bottom part fits a Land deep frame.
> 
> These containers seem to be becoming popular to ship groceries. Supposed to fall apart in 4 years - unsure if want to bother with painting/reinforcing these or not. Whatever I fill like doing.
> ...


I checked, and these biodegradable plastics have higher UV sensitivity or additives which make them susceptible to bacterial decay. However, below 50C, most won't decay. I think if you paint them, they might last a long time.


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

I just posted on another forum about using filing cabinets for bee hives, as they are always available free.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

This last weekend I scavenged sheets of 1" hard foam insulation from the walls of an old, abandoned hog finishing barn. I was a teen when that barn was built, so late 1970s. Now it is tied around my 3 hives. To tie it I used rope that has been hanging on the barn wall since probably about that long ago.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregB said:


> Snatched up several these containers.
> Not only I can use my mini framelets in these.
> Regular Land frames of all sizes fit in these as well.
> 
> ...


Here is a video about container beekeeping.
I don't particularly care of the queen story line here.
Rather, I look at the foam coolers in action.

(777) Two Queen System (Part II) - YouTube


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## HansS (2 mo ago)

For the two top bars I run, they came from free 2x4s that I pulled from trash cans and a construction site the workers gave me permission to harvest from. On eis an observation hive, the glass being taken from an old Jalousie window we replaced.

My OAV dispenser is a 7.62 x 54v casing with a piece of brass tubing that just fits in the front. The full casing takes 2 grams OA, or just over if packed a little tighter. Casing came from the ground at the range, nobody reloads those around here. Leave the old primer in. Heat with a propane torch.


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## HansS (2 mo ago)




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## HansS (2 mo ago)

Not sure if this would go here, but it is cheap. I don't sell honey, So, for the functional alcoholics....

3lb honey, 1 gallon glass jar that held apple juice from the local grocery store, 1tablespoon Fleischmann's bread yeast, water, rubber hose for an airlock. 8-16% ABV mead. Paying for a more consistent ABV/yeast ~$1.25.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

For those who insist on foundation - might as well make your own.

(846) Самодельная вощина за три минуты (simple production of foundation on a 300 mm frame at home). - YouTube


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