# Seasoned beekeeper question regarding beeyard comptition



## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Hello 

I am interested to hear what a season beekeeper would do in my situation. I have recently upped my hive count from 4 to 35. My intentions are to play with queen rearing ect. Before I upped my hive count I searched the surrounding area and found no hives. Shortly after I set up my 35 hives I got a note on my hives saying they are to close to another persons hives. I do believe the other person is a commercial operation. The note stated which location his hives were at. I couldn't see them. His hives in theory are approx 1km away. Some location info- there is alot of canola,clover and peas in the area. We are located in the Canadian prairies. I really don't want to anger another beek but also cant move my beehives. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

J


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Are you on your own property ? Or are your bees on somebody else's land ?

I've been curious how this situation gets handled when somebody buys the property and sets up a few hives, with somebody else claiming 'my territory' ?


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

I dont have an answer, but is there a law up there about keeping bees in the "proximity" of others ?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

If they don't own the land your bees are on.....


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I think grozzie2 asked the most important question - are your hives on your own property?

I have found the satellite view on google maps to be very useful for scouring an area for other yards before setting up a new one. It also doesn't hurt to talk to your local inspector or ask farmers nearby who is keeping bees in that area.


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

My hives are on my own property. The crop land around my bee hives is also my property. The fellow beek(Apiary) who left note claims to be on naboring farm. And I don't doubt his hives are hiding around some bush out of site.
grozzie2 I am also very curious thats why I am posting this here hoping to get a commercial/sideliners prospective of how they have dealt with these types of situations. I am sure there have been a few on this site who have written and received letters,possibly more from fellow beeks.


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

If someone leaves a demanding note, then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cU6TxpG_p4&t=56s


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Champ194 said:


> My hives are on my own property


It is unreasonable to expect someone to not keep hives on their own property. Did they leave a phone number? They may not realize that they are your bees and it might be worth taking a few minutes to discuss it.

You will have to decide how you feel about sharing mites, disease, open feed, etc. There is also the question of whether the area will be profitable with two yards that close together.


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Yes I also like google earth views but sometimes its not possible to see hives. I do like the idea of contacting the bee regulators to see if there are hives in area.(If they give the info out). I don't believe there are any laws regarding distances. Its mostly an etiquette situation. If I could simple move my hives to another yard I would gladly. But even if I could move my hives down the road a few miles/km I am sure there is another person with bees that would claim that area.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

If it's your land, then I don't see the issue. If the area is generally good in forage and you're planting canola etc... I wouldn't worry about it. I would kindly explain you looked for other hives in the area, couldn't see his. Perhaps have a discussion on your end goals on number of hives etc...


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

They tryed to leave name and number but was not easy to read. I could make out a few digits and the word Apiary with a signature. The body of the note was easy to read. I am not concerned about forage or profitablity there is tonnes of bee crops. In my area and driving for hours any direction are large beeyards scattered every few miles/km some easy to see some not,along crop fields. You are always exposed to pest, robbing ect. 1 hive or 1000's


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

If your bees are on your land, then I'd say someone else's bee are too close to yours. :scratch:


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## The General (Apr 22, 2014)

So they came onto your land without your permission, then checked out your apiary without your permission, and then left a note on one of the boxes saying this area is theirs? 

If that's the case I suggest you go door to door and figure out real quick who this person is and have a good chat with them.


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks everyone great insight. Yes we have plenty of great crops canola,alfalfa,clover,and wild flowers just to name a few. Can have very strong flows. Production colonies producing 300+lbs per hive is very possible. I agree a quick chat about what I am doing might solve his concerns. I just don't want to move/sell all my bees cause a fellow beek doesn't want potential competition near when there is plenty of space.


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Yes that is what they did. I wasn't pleased. The general I like your thinking Haha


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Champ194 said:


> I agree a quick chat about what I am doing might solve his concerns. I just don't want to move/sell all my bees cause a fellow beek doesn't want potential competition near when there is plenty of space.


I admire your outlook on this issue and your willingness to work towards a agreeable solution.
However, I have to feel that maybe you are being too concerned with the other party and not concerned enough about yourself.
As mentioned it's your property your bees are on as is the cropland around your bees- why would you even consider moving/selling your bees because of this other beekeeper?
Maybe find that neighbor who's land this guys bees are on and have a chat with your neighbor about it. If it's your neighbor who
is the beekeeper I'd say HE is the one who isn't being to neighborly.
good luck coming to a resolution that pleases you.


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

if you want to raise queens his bees are going to be part of your drones. Cooperation is needed or at least preferable.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Champ194 said:


> My hives are on my own property. The crop land around my bee hives is also my property. The fellow beek(Apiary) who left note claims to be on naboring farm. And I don't doubt his hives are hiding around some bush out of site.
> grozzie2 I am also very curious thats why I am posting this here hoping to get a commercial/sideliners prospective of how they have dealt with these types of situations. I am sure there have been a few on this site who have written and received letters,possibly more from fellow beeks.


Mostly people are grumpy about it and actually do little or nothing. Except say mean things about the other beekeeper. They will complain to whomever that their honey crop is being stolen. But when they find that they have a really good crop of honey they won't credit the so called competition.

If you are on your own property I don't see where anyone else has any standing about how many hives you have there.

Have you met and talked to the one who left the note? You might want to establish a relationship. He might come in handy sometime and you too.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

The real problems usually come from the ones that don't tell you anything is wrong. I keep my bees on 5 different yards. I have a.real good relationship with the property.owners. Someone took issue with my bees on 1 yard and sprayed them . Lost 4 strong hives with 5 supers and the other 6 were able to recover. I moved them to another yard . If.I was you I would contact him. If you keep hives on your property he should respect.you.


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

The fact that they are on your property means the answer is easy. If they were on someone else's property, well that adds a bit of complication. I am not the beekeeper in question, but I know a few names in the area. The person probably doesn't have a problem with forage: there is plenty of canola and clover in any direction in central Alberta. They may assume another commercial beekeeper is invading their turf, as you may assume hobbyists normally would have 4 hives (like you started with). The problems start when hobbyists get in over their head, don't treat, don't deal with swarms, ruin other peoples breeding yards or otherwise show courtesy to people making a living at this - I AM NOT saying any of these things apply to you, but that's what happens. There are over a dozen commercial beekeepers and probably 40,000+ hives within 120km of your yard.


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks everyone once again
I have not talk to the person who left note. Was gonna check the situation out, also try to find info first then decide how to move forward. I do think I am being to nice about it. I would not sell my bees. I am retiring and will spend my time with the bees. 

Pleasantvalley I agree poor beekeeping could be a threat to any hive/beeyard. That is regardless if it is a hobbyist or commercial beekeeper. Is it customary to leave note on hives of invading commercial operations? When another commercial guy expands in central Alberta he must step on someones toes no? When I was talking to another fellow nabor they asked to have bees on there farm. If I moved my bees there would I get another note? If its a dog eat dog game out there I will just leave my hives. People say relationships are important in beekeeping. Are those relationships with beekeepers far away from your own hives?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Likely the other beekeeper does not realise you are keeping bees on your own property and will change his mind if he knows that.

It is great that he contacted you rather than go other routes like secret poisoning that do sometimes happen. You should definately track him down by speaking with the land owner where his hives are, then approach him in a friendly manner. Do not expect him to be pleased you have hives there but do expect him to recognise it is your right on your own land, and hopefully after his initial shock he will accept the situation and the two of you can cooperate from there.


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Oldtimer said:


> Likely the other beekeeper does not realise you are keeping bees on your own property and will change his mind if he knows that.


Hello Oldtimer. I agree with what you are saying. Just to take another angle at it. In your opinion, if my bees were on someone elses land with permission, does that mean I should yield to the commercial/sideline operation within a certain distance? A number of people have mentioned that if it wasn't my property then it would be different. What is the difference? Permission is permission no? I say this assuming a reasonable distance between yards is followed. Still trying to find out what reasonable distance is around my area assuming I can find the other bee yards. It feel like I might be in a location where it doesn't matter about distance between yards as the area could be "claimed" regardless. Cheers


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

One of my Cherry growers told me about a chunk of land that he owns outside a little town next to Salem.
He told me that I was welcome to set up a yard there if it suited me.
So I went there and it was a great spot but THE BEES WERE THICK!!!
I thought, "There has to be some hives very close by".
I drove around and looked and did not see any.
So I went home and took a look on Google maps.
Sure enough, about 500 feet away, hidden behind a row of trees was 16 pallets of bees.
I called my grower and thanked him but told him that I could never drop my bees right on top of my fellow beekeepers spots.
How can I expect that from others if I do not practice the same courtesy? 

"If you want a better world; be a better person"


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

I would agree harryvanderpool. My goal is to not step on any toes. I posted this thread so I could get a better understanding of what is what out there. I would never have even looked into this if it was not for a note on my hives. I also was interested to hear from others if the fellow beekeeper is possibly a bit overzealous. I have learned a lot from this thread.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I don't really know your land fencing policy.
If this is a new property for you or you just recently bought it then the neighbors may not
know you that well yet. I would say in your own fenced in area on your property you can do
whatever you want legally including keeping your own bee hives. If the land is not fenced in and he may not know that you just bought over this property then he's thinking you are the intruder on his bee area living there all his/her life. 
Rather than waiting for the neighbors to respond or trying to find him, why don't you just fenced in a section of your 
small property and put up some keep out, private property signs of your own. This is how I would staked my own property to let others know what had changed over. I would also keep some dogs within your property line to let you know others are within your private zone. Frankly, I don't think your neighbors know that this is your property without any white picket fence or already wire fenced in. Just to let you know you can keep bees within 100 yards of your own fenced in property without having any affect on yourself or your neighbors. Over here we pretty much put up wired fence and picket fence on our private property. Let others know to stake your own claim too!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Champ194 said:


> if my bees were on someone elses land with permission, does that mean I should yield to the commercial/sideline operation within a certain distance?


There is a lot of emotion around that and it is an impossible question to answer. There should be a degree of courtesy about putting a bunch of hives too close to someone else, but just what is too close or too many, is not defined. There is also a degree of hypocrosy about the whole thing with people tending to see things from their own point of view. IE the newcomer will always think he should be able to put hives pretty close but the incumbent will think there should be a big distance. Eventually the newcomer will become the incumbent then change his view when some newcomer does it to him. One time a beekeeper dumped around 200 hives just 800 meters from my site using it as a winter dumping site. I would have lived with it except this guy has a known afb issue and his hives looked pretty rough with holes in them etc. So I went to see them and complained but it was made clear to me they had no intention of moving just on my account, I was told to back off. But some time later I was at a bee meeting and the other guys were there I overheard some conversation about a hobbyist who had put hives close to their hives and they were going to ask him to move. Total hypocrosy.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

For those reading this thread, considering putting a number of hives on any property....keep this thought. Try to place them out of sight. If the op's hives hadn't been readily visible the whole thing would've been a non event.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm still waiting for a response from someone who is running their bees on their land and found a note on their hives
like you did on your setup. Not tenants, landowners. The 'let's all hug each other' advice would be few and far between.
The guys who have responded so far are no different than the one who dropped the note on your bees on your property. Unless the bees are the property of the neighboring landowner which you would probably
know, I'd think.

So it's clear, I run my bees, by agreement, on properties I do not own as well.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

The fact that it's your property and you can do what you want.

For someone to trespass and leave you a note, to try to get you to remove your bees, there's something not right with them.

I would take measures to protect your hives, move to a different spot (on your land) so they can't be seen, paint them concealing colors. Game cameras and GPS alerts... 

All most all of there situations could have been avoided if no one knows your bee hives are there. There is absolutely no reason anyone needs to be able to see your hives (especially on your property).


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

In Arkansas, you may keep bees on your property. If you keep bees on property you do not own you are subject to distance restrictions from a landowners hives unless you get permission from the landowner with bees. Two landowners can keep bees across their fences from one another if they choose.
If two tenant beeks are in conflict because of distance requirements from each other then it is first come first served. Since you would then be counting on a government official to resolve the conflict, it would probably be first registered first served, because all apiaries must be registered.
I agree with Oldtimer, the person that left the note may not know you are also the landowner. The writer of the note should have contacted you, the landowner, instead of trespassing leaving a note without clear contact details.
According to Arkansas law if he is a tenant beek, he may be the one now violating the law. If so, he may need to show up at your doorstep with his hat in hand to humbly ask for your permission to keep his bees at their current location. You seem like a very reasonable person, so I'm sure this will be worked out amicably.

Good luck,
Alex


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Flowerplanter,

There is wisdom in what you are saying, but the day I have to start hiding my property, within the boundaries of my property, to keep trespassers and hypocrites (the ones OT referenced) away, is a day I dread.

Alex


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

AHudd said:


> the day I have to start hiding my property, within the boundaries of my property


There are any number of reasons that keeping them out of sight is good.....above and beyond 'it's my property'. Out of sight, out of mind....just a safer approach, when it is possible.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Got a guy here thst just drops loads anywhere he suits, then moves them after a complaint. He gets more spots this way and it's easier to ask for forgiveness than asking permission...
It also makes it easier to get hated everywhere....!


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

"there's something not right with them" - What did you expect, he is a beekeeper after all. Seriously though it could have been a lot worse. Things could still escalate but it is unlikely. He did sign a note, even though it was illegible to you, he does not know that. He could have overreacted and poisonned your hives, which he did not.

Somehow beekeepers talk about territories, when in fact they generally do not own much land. In the Fraser Valley there are many who want to save the bees and just have no clue. There are others who pollinate professionally so the tendancy is to disregard "territories" However when I take my hives to my north-eastern honey producing area, the neighbors have well defined geographic areas and "territories". It is almost like one set of rules in one part of the world and another set in another part.

Yesterday my buddy was seeking out other yards in an effort to claim more "territory". He wants to stake the area. Yet when neighbors asked him to back off a bit closer to our home yards, he dismissed their request. It just goes to show human nature which tends to be self centered. Many years ago when I first went to the area, I went hat in hand to the neighbor, to have converstion with him to avoid "stepping on his toes" and create bad blood. His first reaction was to loose his cool and start giving me crap. I thought I was being reasonnable in my approach and yet judging by the neighbor's reaction apparently he did not think so. Years later the same neighbor is compalining to my staff because they feel my buddies bees are to close to their place, they had thought they were ours. It seems like one day when it suits their purpose it is one set of rules and another set when it suits that other particular purpose.

Long and short of it when it comes to bees, beekeepers and "territories", no matter what you do, somebody ain't gonna be happy about it.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

How many neighbouring Beekeepers like each other LOL!!
We are always buddies with guys away from our territory


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

beemandan said:


> There are any number of reasons that keeping them out of sight is good.....above and beyond 'it's my property'. Out of sight, out of mind....just a safer approach, when it is possible.


As I said to Flowerplanter, there is wisdom in what he said, but...

My point is, we should not have to hide our property, farming equipment, hand tools, shop tools or beehives to keep others honest. What it comes down to is respect for others rights. 
I can't think of any other number of "good" reasons to hide my property, only one, and that is to protect it from others willful disregard of right or wrong.
I also believe keeping hives in full sun helps to control SHB. I don't know how to hide them without increasing the shaded hours, so I think hiding them is not a good idea, but a bad one. 

Theft of everything not nailed down around here has been rampant for years due to the drug epidemic. I stand by what I said and I will say it another way. I will not hide my property and cower in my home while others try to take what they did not earn. 

Alex


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ain't that the truth. Unfortunately for us, this kind of thinking has hurt our industry. Collectively we seem to be unable to work together for the betterment of our industry. This is unlikely to change due to the personnalities of the individuals that are attracted to honeybees.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm sure we can sort things out, but those asses who just drop bees because they see that fortune in the field, without considering who's already on thst fortune, are the ones that get everyone's backs up.

For you as an example Jean Marc. I'm sure you work above board, but for a resident servicing the land, to have a large commercial move in besides is intimidating. Communicating with the resident beekeeper to stay out of his area was a wise gesture. And I'm sure your aware of the area he services. And if so, the dispute will be nil


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Great insight guys. I see there is a lot of grey area. I will do everything possible to keep the peace. I will try to contact the beek who left the note to let him know its my land. If I decide to grow to another yard on someone elses land I will yield to the guy who was there first. Enless there is a lot of distance between each other. It is a bit disconcerning to think other beeks would poison anothers hives because they see them as intruders. Its pretty risky doing that kind of stuff in 2016. Its so cheap and easy to put up security/cameras, there everywhere.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

A beekeeper over here recently had 300 hives poisoned. He has been in the area for a long time then a new beekeeper is trying to muscle in. Situation started with threats of violence, moved to a few hives getting pushed over, and now this.

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...oisoning-300-hives/ar-BBriGry?ocid=spartandhp


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## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

Amazing how much more unreasonable people are that are claiming "territory" or property they have never nor intend to pay for...

Most people, in my experience, that have actual equity in property are more levelheaded and easier to discuss solutions. 

I would try and make contact with the note writer. Hopefully become good friends. If he decided to be the south end of a north bound horse, I'd put up "no trespass" signs and call the sheriff and have him make a phone call to inform said horses rear that he better quit trespassing.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

Do you know if the other beekeeper is there all year "round or just there for the canola bloom? If they are just there for the canola then from what I understand of how much honey canola produces there should be plenty of forage available for both yours and his bees. If he is there all year then the area may be over populated durring some times of the year.


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## JoshW (Feb 5, 2013)

Ian said:


> How many neighbouring Beekeepers like each other LOL!!
> We are always buddies with guys away from our territory



This offends me


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If he's thinking about the abundant of canola for all then
he would not mind. Clearly in this case he does and not want
the bees to be there taking over his territory to compete when it is not his to start with.
Yes, he is a jealous small hearted person! If he is not happy then things can get ugly
later on. Before you can find him take precaution to temporarily get the hives closer to
your backyard where you can watch over them. Set out trail cams too so that in case you need
to goto the local authority to identify him. If he can do it once he will do it again trespassing.
I don't think he is a seasonal keeper from somewhere else but a local person.


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## rsbee (Oct 18, 2016)

beemandan said:


> For those reading this thread, considering putting a number of hives on any property....keep this thought. Try to place them out of sight. If the op's hives hadn't been readily visible the whole thing would've been a non event.


I used to think the same way, the problem is that other beekeepers don't know your there or in the area and drop bees on top of yours. I now try to keep yards visible from roads, etc., and, behind gates, if possible. I feel it is better that my yards are out in the open so others can make the call on where to place their yards.


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

so... it's been several months, did you ever find out who left the note?


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

I have finally found some time to get back to Beesource for an update. Also thanks for all that have responded. After I posted on here I got lots of handy info and called the fellow beekeeper that left note on my hives. We had a conversation about bee yard locations and how he is having the same issue with other beekeepers claiming territory when he sets up a yard. It did seem like he thought I might try to get him to move. We chatted about business and how he is just trying to carve out some space as he does not own any land and not a local. I let him know the land out in the area in question is my land and has been since my family settled it. (My family also brought with them the first bees to the area in the late 1800's from the US). I also let him know what I was up to and I was not claiming any territory. We left off with good luck and you have my number need be. Since I made contact with the fellow beekeeper months ago I have not heard or seen from him again. I also looked throughout the season for his hives on the location he stated and have yet to see anything. Since then I have learned all land even the one you may own has been silently claimed by a beekeeper for their bees. I also brought up this beekeeping territory thing with nabors and friends. They didn't realize beekeepers claimed territory even if they do not own the land. They also all noticed the operations are not local people anymore. So I have my advice/tips for those looking 1.There is no safe or appropriate distance between bee yards, there all to close unless there your own. 2. The beekeeper near you will most likely not be too friendly. 3. In a dispute be realistic. 4. Hide your hives if you feel you’re in a hot territory with unrealistic beekeepers/ if you’re in friendly territory make them visible so others can make proper assessment. 5. If you’re local the hives in your area could be someone from another province/state don't let them push you out. 
Well that is my story of my increase to a full yard on my own land in the middle of a bee yard mine field. It has been fun and can’t wait for spring to see what’s next. Cheers


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

In Arkansas we have to register our hives. Its not a bad thing. But you can register as permanent or temporary. A person with one hive registers and blocks out three miles in all directions. If you register a location close to him he is sent a letter and he can deny you using any of that area for an apiary. Permanently. His hive could die and you still cant use it as long as he answers the letter. 
Its a waste of forage. There have been beekeepers in the same area for years and have gone out of business but if they answer the letter you are refused by the state. So we are looking for half or one acre locations we can purchase and chain link fence just to have bees in these areas. If a beekeeper is already there we dont want our bees near them because the forage is good but not like Canada where you could put hundreds in an apiary and them all do well. Most we run is sixty in any one location except on soybeans. So we respect active locations and move on but one hive is not going to stop us. The rule needs to look at the forage available versus number of hives in the area the same way cattle grazing is done. We dont want to have hives being unproductive because of bee density. We do however want to be allowed to use forage that is not being used by a hobby beekeeper with a few hives. 
Were even checking the legality of ten year leases. We are not against the beekeepers. The rule just needs to be revised with all the new hobby beekeepers coming on board.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

If you own land you can place hives within that three mile radius of another previously registered apiary. This law prevents the scenario that the OP described.

I don't know about leasing or renting as I have slept since reading the statute. :scratch:
Alex


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## Champ194 (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks guys for your input. It is very interesting hearing how other locations deal with bee yards ect. In my area we also need to register our hives. From what I hear there are many who don't. The registry however isn't used for regulating beeyard/hive locations. In many ways it would be nice to have some set rules that one can look up if need be. But on the other hand the wild west style is a lot more entertaining.


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