# Customer's customer complaint



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

We just had a guy show up who told us he bought nucs from a guy who we sold nucs to and that their were insufficient bees in the nuc. I tried to be very nice and explained that he should talk to the guy he bought the bees from, well this did not get me anywhere and knowing that the seller always seems to lose - I pointed out that we would take the nucs back (it has been over a month) and return his money. This was not what he wanted either... what he wanted was for us to shake him out about 15 lbs of bees... 3 lbs for each nuc he bought. He did concede that the queen was laying and that they were taking feed, but he felt there would not be enough time for them to build up for the winter (jeez.. this is NC). Given that we did not even sell him the bees... it sounds like taking the nucs back was a pretty good offer.

Just wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to satisfy one very upset customer's customer.


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## dehavik (Jun 5, 2010)

If you want to keep this man as a _valuable customer_, I think your offer to buy the nucs back was very generous, particularly since you have no idea what happened (if anything) to the bees while in the care of the middle man. There are some people who refuse to be satisfied--any fair or even 'above-and-beyond' service will not be enough. I think your offer was more than sufficient, and I would not part with 15# of bees. Perhaps a compromise of 5# for free, and anything more than that for a price?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I would think you would want to have a talk to your customer, the one you sold the bees to.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Yes.. I have just been doing that. Turns out that our buyer paid with one company check which he tells me was his way of including this persons money. So I "guess" he did not actually resell them.

We want to make this person feel "Whole" - the problem is determining an appropriate way.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

dehavik said:


> I think your offer was more than sufficient, and I would not part with 15# of bees. Perhaps a compromise of 5# for free, and anything more than that for a price?


We probably could shake him out some bees ... but what would he do with them? Take them and dump them into the five nucs which are now in hives?? Sounds like warfare to me. Dumping packages on top of existing hives may work, but it has been over a month since those nucs left here.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

That's my point, it should be your buyer that makes the customer feel whole, not you. The end customer didn't buy from you. Put pressure on the reseller that bought from you to make it right.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I think that there are some real differences between the price of a nuc that's prepared by simply shaking bees onto 3 drawn out frames with 2 undrawn frames and a queen added, and nucs that were made from overwintered splits with a queen already present.

What did you charge the first guy, and what did he charge the customer who complained?

If he's complaining about a sigmoid curve, because there wasn't brood already present, then yes, he has a point. The number of bees would drop significantly until the amount of brood built up.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

These nucs were made from splits at the beginning of blue berry pollination. At the point the are sold they are more than ready to hive. They all have a laying young mated queen. Nucs are inspected to make sure they have no less than 3 frames of brood (many have 4). The brood laying qualities of the queens that we use are one of the things that we point out to customers. The night before nuc pick up we remove the internal feeder and insert a frame of foundation and screen the nuc front and back for ventilation. 

He agrees... there was plenty of brood present. He is a newbee and does not seem to realize how many bees that brood represented.

We charged the first guy $95 per nuc... what he charged the second guy I do not know.


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## sevenmmm (Mar 5, 2011)

Did he have to pay before understanding what he bought? Or did he pay at the transaction? I think this guy had unrealistic expectations, much different that outright misrepresentation..


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Uh huh.

How much of the brood was capped when you took a look?


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

sevenmmm said:


> Did he have to pay before understanding what he bought? Or did he pay at the transaction?


The guy we sold to paid when he picked the nucs up... not before.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

WLC said:


> How much of the brood was capped when you took a look?


The frames are packed with capped brood. They are at the point of the queen having a problem finding a place to lay. We had real swarm concerns. Conservatively 75% of each side of a frame with capped brood. Our new queens are good layers.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Sounds good. Just wondering if it was a switcheroo.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

WLC said:


> Sounds good. Just wondering if it was a switcheroo.


A possibility..... but it did not sound like it from the description of the boxes that the nucs were sent it.. but who knows.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

You have an unrealistic customer........3-4 frames of brood is a strong 5 frame nuc. You made an attempt to do more than what was necessary. You did say it was a newbee..........who more than likely doesn't know any better. Especially now that it has been a month. It is very possible the bee population crashed because of poisoning but thats not your fault. If a customer is dissatisfied with the product they need to voice that dissatisfaction soon after receiving said product. When they wait a month before complaining it is a sure sign you wont be able to satisfy them anyways.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Barry is right about talking to this guy.

Anyone with the guts to send their customer to you with a complaint is capable of anything.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

hpm08161947 said:


> Given that we did not even sell him the bees... it sounds like taking the nucs back was a pretty good offer.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to satisfy one very upset customer's customer.


They aren't your nucs. You didn't sell them to the guy who had them. You owe him nothing.

That said, yes, the best offer possible, imo. Even if you had shaken 15 lbs of bees for him he still would have a bad taste in his mouth for your nucs. There is no winning sometimes.

Since he refused your offer, I hope you directed him to the person who sold them to him.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

#####


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Definitely an unrealistic customer... I could tell this in the first five minutes of conversation. When a person starts out with threats before I even have time to understand what the problem is... it usually means they have a few other problems besides this one. But I was patient - very patient. Just glad it was me dealing with him and not my son - who doesn't have my patience. 

Indeed I did direct him to the person he got them from, but he just could not seem to understand.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

When you buy something at Wal-mart that turns out to be bad, where do you go to complain?
China? Sri Lanka? or back to Wal-mart?

Buy back was a very kind offer! Move on.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

jrbbees said:


> Buy back was a very kind offer! Move on.


Indeed... I agree.. and that where we will stick. So... moving on!!


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## sevenmmm (Mar 5, 2011)

You need to give the guy some bees this way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU&feature=related


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

sevenmmm said:


> You need to give the guy some bees this way:


Aww... now that is what I call customer satisfaction!!


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Sounds like a scam to me... 15# of bees, what's that worth? A lot I bet. I think you're just being scammed to tell you the truth. The fact that he turned down the buyback offer tells me there's a good chance he never bought any of your bees to begin with...


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## Island Apiaries (Aug 9, 2010)

I agree with the others that you have no responsibility here whatsoever. You are the wholesaler, they bought the nucs from a middleman who marked up the price. The customer wants a refund from you for more than you were paid for the nuc? Sometimes you just need to let a bad customer go. Tell them to deal with the seller and let them deal with the situation.


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

Bens-Bees said:


> Sounds like a scam to me... 15# of bees...


I am thinking the same.


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## LT (Aug 17, 2006)

Brush him off Herb. We have noticed a very few who know about bees know how to scam you also. Thank goodness 99.9% of bee keepers are the best people you could meet.


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## MichaBees (Sep 26, 2010)

"Hasta la vista, baby"


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

http://russellapiaries.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=128461683
Probably Thinks he was supposed to get this size a nuc...wish mine got that big b4 sale!
Mike


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah, but I don't know why that person is prying on the weakest part of the frame and the box. That sorta bothered me when I first saw it on another Thread.

Good looking nuc from the outside anyway. Rightly saleable and a good one to purchase too. Knowing Herb and Matt, I bet theirs are mostly like that one too.

Of course there will be variability across the hundreds of nucs one makes. One should expect a relatively weak one here and there. But, not 5. Unless the go between guy picked out the very best for himself, had the last guy pick them up during full flight and then the last guy being new to beekeeping and not really knowing what's normal for bee populations.

Even doing as best as one possibly can, there will be the odd dissatisfied customer every now and then. Been there myself. Gotta complaint from a customer just a cpl days ago, because I hadn't mentioned her store when talking to a Reporter. I hope the other 50 or more store owners don't read the article and feel slighted. Sometimes, ya can't win.


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## ga.beeman (Mar 29, 2009)

You done the right thing. he needs to go back and deal with the middleman. Guess next year i would think hard before i sold to this middleman.Something about this sounds fishy to me. It isnt your fault you done your part of growing out good strong nucs and you delievered on your end Transaction complete in my eyes


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Probably Thinks he was supposed to get this size a nuc...wish mine got that big b4 sale!
> Mike



Those are nice nucs, but these were not that different! At least IMHO the key is setting them up at the beginning of the honey flow and having a productive queen (I can tell you where to get those queens if you like).


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

where


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> where


A while back, Mark (Sqkcrk) turns us onto Kutick Queens. Chuck Kutik is a big pollinator that started his own Queen Operation... partly for his own needs. He hired an old Kona Grafter - Lynn Barton who really seems to know his queens - an interesting guy to talk to. They have a Carniolan queen with a touch of VSH and Russian (Lynn's description). So far the young queens have been a fine queen here in the south, as time goes by we will judge their longevity. If you would like to talk to Lynn call 607-316-7359 or 607-263-9672. Be patient, he seems to be a hard guy to get up with, but eventually he returns calls. Or Mark could give your Chuck Kutiks number - a much easier guy to get up with.


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## Cindy (Mar 21, 2011)

Back to the original issue: If the customer has a reciept from you for the purchase then you are liable to make good on it. If the customer has no receipt or a receipt from someone else, then it is not your problem. Demand a receipt that shows that you are the one who sold directly to this person, with proof of payment from the customer to you directly. If they can not produce this for you, you have no legal obligation to do anything for this person. Legally the customer will have to go back to the person they purchased from for any type of adjustments.


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## forgeblast (Feb 4, 2011)

Its like wearing a pair of shoes for a month and then returning them (which when working retail i have had people try to do). If there was a problem then day one he should have contacted you, and then you could have seen what he was talking about. The problem with someone like that is they will be loud about it, you did everything right, I would say above what was expected.


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