# Queens for the 2006 season



## Man O' War (Jul 11, 2005)

Chef,
I've always picked up my bees from a supplier
close to me here in Texas (R. Weaver) but
wouldn't recommend them for you, due to shipping
distance.
Here is a list close to you...

Bee Happy Apiaries - Northern California - (530) 795-2124 - SMR Russians, *New World Carniolan - Packages and Queens

Coma, Don - Northern Califnornia - Minnesota Hygienic, Cordovan Italian - 530 547-9723 Queens only

Honey Bee Genetics - (707) 449-0440 - Northern California - Minnesota Hygienic x SMR, Russian- Packages and Queens

Pendell Apiaries - (530) 963-3062 - Northern California - Cordovan Italian - Queens only

Powell Apiaries - (530) 865-3346 - Italian, SMR, SMR Russian, - Northern California - Packages and Queens

Olivarez Honey Bees - (530) 865-0298 - Northern California - Minnesota Hygienic, Russian - Packages and Queens

Olympic Wilderness Apiary - toll free (866) 204 -3426 - Washington - Russian x SMR x Caucasian - Queens only June to October - email: [email protected] website www.owa.cc

Strachan Apiaries (530) 674-3881


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I have had queens shipped from Strachan out of California and R. Weavers form Texas. With no problems the queens have always arrived in good shape. Both are good people to deal with. Both the New World Carniolan and All American Italian have performed well.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Honey bee genetics (tabers) is not taking orders till Jan. They also said they are anticipating an increase of up to ten dollars on top of last years price of 16.40 per queen. (I laughed)

Strachans is sold out of NWC and Russians till at least June.

The only ones on the previous list that I know that is taking orders at this time is Oliverez. They have NWC and Italian.

Hardemans in georgia started taking orders Dec first. They have Russians and Italians.

Jester has Russians (others?) but it has been awhile since I spoke to them. When I spoke to them, they were sold up till April 19.

I have left messages at about 7 places and have not been contacted. Some updates have been left on a thread "website corrections" dealing with updates to the "Queens and Packages" section of the forum. It is badly in need for some updates. Some do not handle the types listed and some just plain do not exist any longer. 

It seems some are already sold out or sold out till later in the season, some are waiting till after the first of the year to take orders, and it seems some will wait till others are sold out and will sock it to you.

[ December 02, 2005, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

We ordered our Buckfast with no problem from Weaver On Dec. 01 when they started taking orders. I spoke with Ray Oliverez who said they were getting orders from people they never heard of but had openings in Mid April(as of 2 1/2 weeks ago). I've sent he and Tami E-mails over the past 2 weeks as follow up on the phone order with no results. My experiance with Weaver has been good. Hardeman has good bees, fine people to deal with, although it's been a few years. Hawaiin Queen has great Cordovans if your South of the Mason Dixon line. Prolific, great producers and a really neat light yellow coloration. Don't winter well in the north. They are usually booked with exisiting customers through May or June. Best Itailain stock I've used by far. 

I think everyone will be overbooked this season so order early and often.

[ December 02, 2005, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I've found there are basically two groups, those that are sold out and those that aren't taking orders yet. (At least when it comes to early queens).

I wouldn't laugh at a $25+ price. It's coming quickly and some already get that much and still have a waiting list. It's very much a sellers market and seems to be getting more so in my opinion. 

-Tim


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

As a producer myself I would not mind a standard price of about 25 dollars. I would be laughing just in another way.

I have 50 queens from Jester....15 each
I have 50 queens from Olivarez..15 each
I have 50 queens from Hardemans.13.50 each

See a pattern???
Now when someone qoutes 26 dollars without confirming an order, just putting you on a list till January, and then taking whats left, thats crap. He mentioned they cater to the hobbiest...I bet they do!

If everyone else was in the 26 dollar range I could see it. But I have spoke to probably 25 to 30 producers, and one had a price above 20 dollars, and that was for a single early spring queen. The 26 dollars was for an order of 50.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

$25 dollars a queen!! All the more reason I have decided to take the plunge and start rearing my own queens. After all once you start beekeeping thats just phase two. I am looking forward to the learning experience


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I agree with Brent. I will order some more queens through people who I can trust. I do plan on learning how to graft though. It would be a nice thing to learn.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Most of the beekeepers in my area have stopped buying queens from areas where Africanized bees are found....a few of the local club members have ended up with some really 'hot' bees and I guess it wasn't fun!


LaRae


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Chef:
Trust has nothing to do with it, R. Weavers have been in business for over 114 years and you dont do that unless your trustworthy. Strachan have been in business since 1954 and has earned the trust of Susan Colby of Ohio State University to raise New World Carniolan queens from there breeding program. 
For me its purely for the challenge, cost and ensuring a good northern AHB free stock.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{Most of the beekeepers in my area have stopped buying queens from areas where Africanized bees are found....a few of the local club members have ended up with some really 'hot' bees and I guess it wasn't fun!}
Are you hinting that people should not buy bees from quality/trusted breeders who are in africanized areas because your friends bought some hot bees and assumed they were africanized. Bees are "hot" for many reasons outside africanization which can include poor breeding, hybridization, local climate conditions in any given year, normal less gentle traits of a given breed, and prescence of predators such as skunks and bears. Let's think long and hard before we sound the alarm bell and suggest excluding families whose livelhoods depend on our business without solid cause. I've gotten hot bees from Weaver (way before Texas was africanized), Hawaiin Queen, Hardeman, Kelley, York,Plantation,Drapers,Wilbanks, Strachan, both suppliers from Ramer Ala., and raised a few of my own. Many, Many were well before africanization hit or not in africanized areas now.


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## Stonefly7 (Nov 3, 2005)

Joel, good post, I also have had "hot Bees" that never knew the south. 
Chef, I spoke to Purvis on Thursday last week, he said he hopes to have more in Jun, I also spoke to Tess Arnold up in E. TN, he will have some. 
I have been pricing nuc's and queens for some time, I did find a good $$ for nuc,s from a broker. 59. Rus-Car. Your right, most of the guys are sold out, or no avail until June.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Why not let your girl's raise their own?
I have gone this route. 
When I do splits, Ilet them raise their own.
When I see a hive, that needs requeening, the girls almost always are a head of me and have started the process.
If I have a hive that I don't like the queen's traits, I take a frame with eggs and nurse bees from a hive I like, put them into a nuc, get them started on queen cells, then find the queen, kill her and put the frame with the queen cells into the hive.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

$25 US a queen? Yikes.

I placed my order in the fall, but they told me that they hadnt gotten the prices yet. But for 25$US I will drop that order in a second. 

At that price, and the price of honey, it dosent pencil out. 

Looks like I might have to be totally self sufficient in my queen requierment..


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I think many will be learning how to graft properly and raise queens at those prices. One of the good things about our supply side economy, it forces us to learn things. It will result in many northern beekeepers requeeing in the fall, a good thing, and hopefully sharing stock to get better bees.

If queens are $25 what will packages and nucs cost?


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

I got a HOT hive and several VERY warm ones in a batch from La. That did it for me. Northern queens are coming if I can get early drones somehow. I'm with Mountaincamp.

Dickm


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## Blue.eyed.Wolf (Oct 3, 2005)

Would a late summer, over wintered northern Queen be as viaable as a spring queen? It would solve the drone problem. Of course the next questionis how to keep her through the winter, how small a cluster is sustainable, if you made her in the fall why not install her in the fall?

What kind of studies have been done on queen banking?

As far as grafting, nothin to it. If you dont have good sight, or steady hands, get you kids to do it.

As far as early drones, if you dropped a dronframe into the center of the brood nest in Feb, would she fill it with drone eggs?


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

There is no reason why a late summer/fall spring wouldn't make a good queen in spring. It might even be better than requeening in spring because they can get a jump on brood rearing earlier than you can requeen.

Everything I've read on queen banking suggests that while it is possible, the quality of the queens diminish the longer they are banked.

As for early drones, my experience has been the hive strength and resources (especially pollen) determine when they are willing to raise drones. My informal observations over the past couple of springs pretty much agree with that Taber has written. So just presenting the queen with drone comb isn't enough. She may lay, but the workers will likly not rear drones. I've found that early feeding of syrup, pollen patties, and open fed pollen can help speed things up, though you still somewhat at the mercy of the weather.

-Tim


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

They all get "banked" by the bees from October to, sometimes February. They start laying again fine when the bees fatten them back up. Banking is the same situation. The queen quits laying for some time and then restarts. I agree it takes a little while for them to kick back into high gear after banking a long time though.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>I can get early drones somehow.

going to have to delay the spring work till she starts laying drones. Three weeks to wait is along time up here


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

At $25 a queen, I will be raising my own. I'll be raising my own at prices cheaper than that too!

Gotta love economics.... you know that whole supply and demand thing!









My guess is that at $25/ queen the demand side of that equation is really going to be soft.

[ December 05, 2005, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: dtwilliamson ]


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm going to try for some spring queens, but will likely just wait till summer and requeen poorly performing hives and make a few late splits. Unless I get swarming under control, or something different happens, I will have new queens and hives this year before anyone starts shipping.

Yesterday, Purvis Brothers told me they will start taking orders for 2006 on January 2nd, but they still have people on a waiting list from last year. Actually they said January 1st.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

People here also avoid Africanized areas. One guy got about 100 stings through a suit years ago from an open mated queen in an Africanized area. Thats hotter than the hot bees I used to have. I'm sure many queen breeders are doing their best, but with open mating, the potential is there to get an african hybrid. How can you know what you have till they start laying and emerging? 

However, I'm not likely to restcirct where I order from as the Africanized bees are spreading fast enough that the people that don't order from Africanized areas will soon be anyway. Its like with the hive beetle, people here wouldn't order packages from beetle areas, but now we all have some beetles. I saw the first one in my hives this fall. And many beekeepers in our club have them.

[ December 06, 2005, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

>If queens are $25 what will packages and nucs cost?

I don't know about nucs, but I just reserved 6 - 3lb packages for the spring. Cost was $75.00 each picked up.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

> Are you hinting that people should not buy bees from quality/trusted breeders who are in africanized areas because your friends bought some hot bees and assumed they were africanized. Bees are "hot" for many reasons outside africanization which can include poor breeding, hybridization, local climate conditions in any given year, normal less gentle traits of a given breed, and prescence of predators such as skunks and bears. Let's think long and hard before we sound the alarm bell and suggest excluding families whose livelhoods depend on our business without solid cause. I've gotten hot bees from Weaver (way before Texas was africanized), Hawaiin Queen, Hardeman, Kelley, York,Plantation,Drapers,Wilbanks, Strachan, both suppliers from Ramer Ala., and raised a few of my own. Many, Many were well before africanization hit or not in africanized areas now.


Joel I'm relaying what commercial and 'backyard' beekeepers in our area are saying. As I understand it there can be varied reasons for hot bees so no not all hot bees equal Africanized bees.

That said, I think it's fairly logical to figure that bees raised in certain areas of the US where there are known African bees, are at some point, going to cross when there are open beeyards/open matings. I'm assuming the breeders aren't providing chaperones to ensure their Queens only mate with their own kind!  

As far as odds, statistics etc I have no idea, but even I am smart enough to realize that if I buy queens in areas with African bees my chances of getting Africanized (or hybrid Africanized, whatever you call them) bees is probably higher than buying a queen in a non-Africanized area.

I was unaware I had enough power to cause the demise of a business (I believe) over 100 years old by stating opinions of other beekeepers or my own opinions....and that's what they are opinions, everyone has them and no one is bound by them. 


LaRae


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

LaRae, no offense intended. I don't disagree with your accurate, well thought out points in the recent post. I can tell you many responsible queen breeders in Florida (now reported as widely africanized), Weavers in Texas and others may have a much more pointed response to your first post. I've yet to see, read or hear of any aficanized queens having been sold by any responsible breeder out of 10's of thousands of queens sold since africanization, have you? I just wanted to point out the fact someone got hot bees does not lead to your friends conclusion that a breeder sold them africanized queens. If someone thinks they bought or have AHB's the responsible thing is to get them tested. It's free and then we are dealing with facts not gossip.

I'm as concerned about AHB as much or more than anyone. I happen to think it will be the pivitol problem for our industry. I'm on a course to eliminate my SC operation partly due to the pending arrival in Florida which I felt was going to happen after almond pollination this year and did. That won't protect me over the summers when other migratories land their AHB hive here in blueberries, apples or on the way to cranberries. 

I don't think I mentioned you collasping anything in my post. I only suggested we should consider the impact of our statements. 3000+ beeks here to read posts, they talk to other commercial guys and backyard beekeepers, you get the idea.

[ December 06, 2005, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Joel:
Its of your opinion that the spread of AHB in Florida was primarily form migratory Beekeepers moving from California? 
A recent article form American Bee Journal blames it on deep water shipping into ports like Tampa Bay. 
Its of my opinion that AHB spread in northern areas like the upper mid west or north east will be from such a conduit. 
Wether they survive the winters is another question? Nature has a way of adapting, perhaps we will end up with another race of honeybees altogether different than anything we know of now.


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## SUKIE (Apr 4, 2002)

We have gotten " hot " queens from many producers in the past 10 years or so. We split or orders between Ca.& Fl. producers. We have had cells that we raised here in Omaha that turned out to be not so frendly also. Our problemis that there are so few queenpeople left in business that we have went from 5 producers down to 2 or maybe 3. We still have queen breeders that owe us money from 2 years ago for queens not shipped. When we neeed a bank of 50 or 60 queens on such & such a date on the calander you just pray that the breeder keeps his word & ship when he promised. I see this as a hugeproblem to come. Just pick up the phone & call & quens would be here in 2 to 3 days no problem. Not any more.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Brent
I'm aware if that article, as it is also Bob Harrisons position and he ususally is on the front line of what's coming down, it may be accurate. We will likely never know. This of course could make matters worse due to the potential of a less watered down strain (through breeding with EHB's). I just find it hard to accept that for decades of Africanization in South America this hasn't taken place previously. Suddenly the 1st big $$ pollination year in CA and 10%(estimates) of commercial operations are Africanized. The state of Florida had an aggressive trapping program to monitor just such an influx (from shipping) in the early days with no infestations detected. I have no beef with migratory beeks, I am one. I place no blame as business owners have the right to move their hives where ever they can find the work. For myself I'm trying to monitor what I (and others will be facing)and make adjustments in front of the wave. 

Hopefully Bob or someone else more in the loop than me may explain better what we are up against. I hope it is concise and honest, I consider this a major beekeeping event. I quess the source of the strain, other than the point from degree of breed, is irrevelant today.

Like you I don't think AHB will establish themselves in the north. That doesn't mean many hives won't be africanized in the north during migratory pollination periods, especially along I-95 (as happened with the spread of SHB). As I look ahead I ask how many package and queen breeders will we loose in the next few years (as well as hobbyists) especially in the event AHB's move into Georgia and SC. How will we fill that void in light of current shortages and prices. 

We will as an industry likely be dealing with AHB cross breeds as a norm within the next decade. I think there will have to be a paradigm shift in our current industry concepts if that happens. I have many ideas on what I think could accomplish this. We just need to hear from those in the know what the accurate scoop is. 

At any rate, here we go!


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Joel:
I agree you cant attach blame on migratory beekeepers no more than you can place blame for corp blights spread by the weather. Nature is and opportunist and will always seem to find a way to spread. We have a problem with an Emerald Ash Boring beetle here in Michigan they were spread here form Ohio and Eastern Michigan in fire wood that people brought with them for camping. So who would you blame the campers or local people that charge to much for firewood? Both have a right to make or save money. The same would be true for Beekeepers that are trying to stay in business. 
The only thing we can do is deal with it and learn form mistakes. As far as blame for AHBs the real blame would fall on the people that were careless in 1957 Brazil.


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## Blue.eyed.Wolf (Oct 3, 2005)

I'm not sure you can even blame the 1957 Brazillians. This round may have started there, but it may only have been a matter of time anyway.
In concept I cant see why swarms havent come over in ships, or a cargo plane for that matter. It dosent take that long to cross the oceans any more.
Maybe we should all be brushing up on how the South Americans have delt with it. Anyone know of a map that shows how far south they went? This may give us some idea how far north they will come here.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

We could have stopped AHB in Panama. The whole country can't be more than a feww hundred miles across. I geuss it just wasn't a big priority for congress.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

> We could have stopped AHB in Panama.


We (they) tried. It didn't work. I don't remember all the details, but in essence they setup a DMZ extending from coast to coast (I seem to recall it was 90 miles deep, could be wrong), set out a bazillion traps, destroyed feral hives, etc. The bees jumped the barrier without a pause in their northern migration. It may have been an ill-conceived scheme. It's likely that attempt would have been doomed from the start.

Whether the bees went around the DMZ (the scenic coastal route) or over it, doesn't really matter. It didn't stop them, and it's unlikely that anything could have halted their mirgration.

George-


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Aspera,
As far as stopping the AHB at Panama it would have worked and would have had little cost or impact on beekeepers. The solution was AFB tainted syrup suggested by the U.S. largest beekeepers but the idea was turned down by the USDA.

The bee labs *have* reported finds of AHB genetics in queen & package shipments from areas of AHB . We were warned of the possibility as far back as 10 years ago. If you are open mating in an area of known AHB how can anyone be sure an AHB mating has not taken place. Impossible. 

The solution if you buy from those areas is to keep a close eye on your bees and requeen as soon as aggresive behavior is seen! 

Joel,
The AHB problem in Florida dates back to 1985. When the State fo Florida hired an expert on AHB. A careful lid was kept on the situation until Jerry Hayes tested the LaBelle hives ( lifted the lid and looked at the problem).

The resident AHB Florida expert is working on a field test for confirming AHB by grinding up bees on site. The test is based on the different bee proteins found in AHB which are not found in European bees. A reagant is used with the test.

The report sent to me does not refer to the south Florida "hot" bees as AHB but as A.m. scutellata. I will be traveling to Florida to report on the problem for a bee magazine in January.

I was offered a Florida apiary inspection job to help with the problem but declined but will see if I can help figure out a solution to the problem and how widespread the problem is.

Beekeeping will not end in Florida but Jerry Hayes will make changes to regulations concerning locations and movement.

Those commercial operations not wanting to comply with the new regulations will be fined and then shut down if they don't comply I have been told. L. Cutts is not running the show now. A new sherriff is in Florida. 

Jerry Hayes is a reasonable person but the decision on controlling the problem rest with the dept. he runs. Changes are coming.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

joel sezs:
One of the good things about our supply side economy, it forces us to learn things.

tecumseh replies:
since the time of John Maynard Keynes it has been very well established that our economy is demand driven. supply follow the demand side of the equation. as someone else suggested if there is demand resistance at the hypothetical price of $25 then you would logically expect the price to fall back to some lower level. given the reduction in number of large commercial gueen breeders and increased problems and cost associtated with this endeavor I really don't think this is likely. I suspect the hypothetical $25 price might be a bit rich, but for queens ordered in low numbers maybe not.

I am thinking I may try to purchase queen cells in some quantity this spring. Has anyone had any experience with minnesota hygenic and or buying queen cells?

blue eyed wolf ask:
Maybe we should all be brushing up on how the South Americans have delt with it. Anyone know of a map that shows how far south they went? This may give us some idea how far north they will come here.

tecumseh replies:
I think some time back there was some evidence and belief that the freeze line would limit the natural spread of aftrican at approximately Dallas, Tx. This belief was based on how far south they migrated in south america. I suspect a significant bit of there spread in Texas in the last few years is the direct result of having had no hard winter freezes during the past several winters, but this winter looks to having the stuff to send those nasty girls packing back south. or at least that is my hope.

and here is something else perhaps someone could give me some insight on..

I was having a bit of a discussion with a local beekeeper and was telling him about catching a couple of swarms in the latter part of the summer and the fact that the bee lab had id 'em both as african. and he said he really didn't care what kind of a queen it was, as long as she made some kind of a honey crop. I am sure tecumseh mouth just about hit the floor. what do you tell a person like that?


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

"get an epipen"


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

>Anyone know of a map that shows how far south they went?

Not sure exactly but I have been told that the equivalent lattitude north of the equator runs through Savannah, GA. The local gurus here at UGa expect the AHB to eventually move north and probably stop somewhere in the north GA mountains. It is expected that we here in central GA will be in a type of transition area (whatever that means).

There was also a report of a stinging incident in south GA where a dog was stung to death. It hasn't been proven that it was AHB, but it certainly has all the earmarks of it. Whether it is or not, they are definitely coming north.

After hearing a two hour brief on the subject, I must say the most amazing point to me was that after an AHB population has stabilized in an area, they have no sign of European honeybee DNA. Their DNA apparently is 100% identical to the native AHB in Africa. They don't meld together to form a population with a temperament somewhere between the European bees and AHB as one might expect.


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## tim71 (Nov 24, 2005)

DIDNT I READ ON BEESOURCE THAT AHB WERE BROUGHT TO THE US BACK IN THE 50S,MY UNCLE HAS BEEN MESSING AROUND WITH BEES FOR OVER 50 YEARS, WHEN HE FIRST GOT IN TO IT HE WAS ROBBING BEES FROM ANY WHERE HE COULD FIND EM,ABOUT 50 YEARS AGO HE FOUND A SWARM THAT HAD JUST SETELED ON A BROOM WEED,WHEN HE WHENT TO PUT THEM IN A BOX THEY STUNG HIM SO MANY TIMES THAT IT ALMOST KILLED HIM,IF ITS TRUE THAT THEY WERE BROUGHT HERE OVER 50 YEARS AGO (HERE IN CENTRAL TEX)THEN WE HAVE ALREADY DEALT WITH THEM ONCE.I MAY NOT KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ?


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Dr. Kerr was working with Steve Tabor at the Baton Rouge Bee lab in the early 60's on the shipment of bee semen. They were the first ( I believe from memory) to send semen in tubes through the mail.
Dr. Kerr had inbred a African bee without the aggressive trait. Steve began inseminating the semen into the stock at the bee lab with queen & drone entrances I have been told. Word got out about the experiments going on in the beekeeper community and beekeepers were upset. Public opinion turned on poor old Steve. When Steve went on vacation for two weeks he found the bee lab manager had depopulated all his hives with AHB semen. 
Before the list jumps on me saying "it ain't so!" I was told the above by Steve Tabor in person at an Illinois State beekeepers meeting we were both at in Springfield ,Illinois. The story was verified by Gary Reynolds ( a friend ) which worked at the lab with Steve at the time.

Sure its possible a swarm got away and Steve is not admitiing but he said the story was blown way out of porportion by beekeepers. AHB queens were not widely distributed as rumors of the period suggest.
Dr. Warrwick Kerr was the world's foremost bee geneticist at the time and Steve was one of the U.S. beekeeping industries best minds. Both were years ahead of their time. I can't help think we might have been in a better position to handle AHb if the research had went forward.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

tim71 ask:
DIDNT I READ ON BEESOURCE THAT AHB WERE BROUGHT TO THE US BACK IN THE 50S

tecumseh replies:
are you HARD OF HEARING tim71?

and a very interesting story from Rob Harrison me thinks.. which is much more direct than the RUMOR that I heard many years back, but some of the detail are the same (baton rouge, ahb semen).

from what I can remember of the story the beekeepers at the time had experienced a great deal of absconding and they were trying to establish a reason for why the absconding had suddenly become so evident. as a side bar some of the hottest bees (I would have sworn from casual observation that they looked like italians) that I have ever encountered were along the mississippi river. them girls made your bee gloves drip with venom. nasty girls...


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## tim71 (Nov 24, 2005)

THANK YOU MR HARRISON EASEY THERE RED NECK NOT HEARD OF HEARING JUST NOT AS MUCH TIME TO KEEP UP WITH ALL THE INFO IN THE FORUM


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

tim71, assuming that using big letters could not in any way upset a fellow beekeeper, I could only guess that tecumseh was mostly concerned with your health and safety and was very concerned with your hearing. Anyone else out there with bad hearing, so tecumseh can rest a little bit easier knowing this information?

Of course perhaps someone got up on the wrong side of the bed. Or is politically correct motivated...or just nitpicks alot....heavens I'm glad I am not like that.  

BTW, tecumseh, tim 71 "asks" a question or "asked" a question, but saying he "ask" a question is not really correct. Not that I got up on the wrong side of the bed or like to nitpick.....


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## tim71 (Nov 24, 2005)

for give me if i seamed upset im on a company computer didnt realiave the caplock was on,ive been at work all nite just havent been to bed as of yet,i thought we were having a little fun, forgive me please and MERRY CRISTMASto all


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## Jackbee (Aug 26, 2005)

Well tim 71 WHAT are you doing on your company computer??? BS'ing about bees?  

The AHB has been found in LA in the northwest corner of the state. Thank you Texas for providing a vast territory for the AHB to invade on their way to world colonization sparing us laid back Cajuns and giving US some respite. I understand the the AHB do not like rainy and wet/damp conditions??? That's why they probably made a flying leap over Panama and on into more favored, to them, climatic conditions,such as Texas, Arizona, etc, have. 

A trap line is installed, in LA, from around the TX LA southern border and up to, in an arc, Monroe, on up to the Arkansaw border with the hope that ALL the the AHB will divert to there, AR, on into Little Rock and Bill Clinton's useless library where they will find permanent accomodations and there to remain forever and ever or until next year, whichever occurs first. Alas since Bill " now a New Yorker" is no longer the Southern boy of his concocted history, probably the smart bees will realizes this and leave in disgust.Further plus, if, and after reading the also concoted story of a " Boy From Hope " ??? the bees are for sure going into a deficating flight.  

Oops got carried away from a very serious discourse, sorry.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

By 1977, AHB had migrated south from their original location in Brazil to about 35 degrees south latitude along the coast, including most of Uruguay and the northeastern corner of Argentina. Their migration west was largely limited by elevation- the Andes and the higher plateaus of central Argentina presented a formidable barrier to their expansion.

Considering only latitude as a limit to their northerly migration, 35 degrees north latitude takes in all of South Carolina. I'm not predicting here, just speculating.

George-


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## Beemaninsa (Jun 9, 2004)

I have no questions to ax, but unless I was hard of hearing, my March 06 queens from Big Island reserved last fall are $11 per 100 plus shipping. IMO fair spring price for good queens even if you like to nitpic.: )


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Excellant queens for your area, pooly suited for the north. We ordered 100 from Weavers @ 14.40 and 100 from Oliverez @ 15.00. I'm not unhappy with those prices. With all that's going on that will change quickly I'm sure.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

excuse me tim71 for not directly asking (sorry I just don't get the ask vs ask's' grammer lesson, but tecumseh don't build clocks or nit pick especially on his birthday) why your response was in all caps. ettquette may get you no where, but internet convention suggest that all cap represents shouting.

once again has anyone had any experience with either minnesota hygenics and/or purchasing queen cell?

Jackbee states:
The AHB has been found in LA in the northwest corner of the state. Thank you Texas 

tecumseh replies:
given the location of this specific sighting (just north of Shreveport, if memory serves) the origin of this ahb could have come from any direction east or west (I 20) and anywhere on the gulf coast from south carolina all away around to the tip of texas. and given that they have barge traffic all the way up the red river to just below sheveport, this particular hive could even have been of international origin.

so tecumseh says thank you, but no thank you...

well it is my birthday, we have had our first cold icy bit of winter. think I will take a trip down navasota way, I will hopefully give you a report upon my return.


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## Beemaninsa (Jun 9, 2004)

Happy birthday Tecumseh. I queened some spilts in East Texas (around Crockett) a few years ago with cells from a Minnesota commercial beekeeper. I do not know if they were hygenics. I had less than 90% acceptance, but the queens were the best I have had. Open mating in my area(South Texas)is difficult due to AHB. Were it not for my location, I would love to use cells or raise my own.
It's not enough for a fair evaluation, but I tried a couple of dozen Minnesota Hygenics last spring from a Lousiana producer. I was satisfied. All accepted, average buildup and production. They were more defensive than the cordovans that I have been recently using. Two of the queens were too defensive to keep.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>DIDNT I READ ON BEESOURCE THAT AHB WERE BROUGHT TO THE US BACK IN THE 50S

http://www.beesource.com/pov/ahb/viciousbee.htm

The 1940s until about 1970.


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## Murphy (Jun 7, 2005)

I have allways felt the Dr. Kerr was unjustly blamed for the whole AHB problem. The goverment of Brazil did not like him due to his complaining about their abuses, so they launched a campaign to discredit and villify him. If I remember rightly they jailed him a couple of times. 

Kieran


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Then who would you blame?

[ December 08, 2005, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

thank you, thank you very, very much beesmania. 

and a question or two. was the minnesota commercial fellows name bill. and do you remember what the going price was for the cells you acquired?

I did return from navasota where I logged my order for spring queens from b weaver. going price about a 20 dollar bill. which works out to about a 4 dollar increase in price over last year.


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Michael,
Thanks for posting the information. I had not even thought about the Kelley Island research for a long time. 
The project was done to look at agressive behavior in U.S. queen stock. The project involved inbreeding which caused the aggresive genes to surface. The Kelly report was the only place I ever heard of vicious caucasian bees. Many U.S. beekeepers could not believe a caucasian bee could be made vicious through inbreeding.
I believe the whole report is a very accurate description of the research.
I do believe more queens were inseminated in Baton Rouge with AHB semen than they said. No queens were ever imported to my knowledge nor distributed to beekeepers (which was the rumor of the period). The Baton Rouge information suggests two different attempts at using AHB drone semen. The first research (according to the report) says the bees died of neglect. I find it hard to believe Steve Tabor & Gary Reynolds would neglect research colonies. Gary said Steve Tabor was obsessed with beekeeping research and all he would talk about. Gary said the other members of the team would attempt to get through a break without Steve turning the converstaion to bees. Unsuccessful Gary said! Steve told me after the AHB hives were depopulated the research on semen from Dr. Kerr stopped.
Interesting stuff!
Gary Reynolds left the bee lab to become a commercial beekeeper in Concordia, Kansas and at one time ran 2000 hives by himself. We have been friends for years and Gary is also involved today with the Baton Rouge Russian project.
Dr. Kerr teaches school in San Palo , Brazil.


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