# Wintering a Top Bar Hive



## BeeGora (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm wondering if TBH's winter as well as Langstroth hives? Particularly those with viewing windows. Even with the wooden covers over the glass in the windows it seems the glass would radiate the cold inside the hive. Plus the box being long and "V" shaped there isn't much room between the two sides of the hive which are likely less than one inch thick. With the square box Langstroth the bees can bunch up in the middle of a frame and not be close to either side of the box. Just wondering what the general consensus might be?


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## catbackr (Jun 5, 2010)

I keep about half langs and half top bars, 30 hives total. In the 9 years I've had top bars, I have noticed little difference in the wintering ability of the two styles. We get pretty cold with a lot of wind here on the flat, not as bad as farther north but the top bars winter fine here.


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## Broglea (Jul 2, 2013)

Of my 5 TBHs all 5 came through winter just fine. 2 of those 5 were TBH nucs. I don't have an observation window on any of them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'm wondering if TBH's winter as well as Langstroth hives? 

Yes.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm#winter

>Particularly those with viewing windows. 

I have one that has a viewing window, although I've never opened it to look at it... it's usually closed in which case I don't see why it would matter. It has survived continuously since I put bees in it five years ago with virtually no management.

>Even with the wooden covers over the glass in the windows it seems the glass would radiate the cold inside the hive. 

Why do you think that? I see no reason to believe that.

>Plus the box being long and "V" shaped there isn't much room between the two sides of the hive which are likely less than one inch thick. With the square box Langstroth the bees can bunch up in the middle of a frame and not be close to either side of the box. 

A cluster that fits the box generally winters better than one that does not.

>Just wondering what the general consensus might be?

A consensus? In beekeeping? Surely you jest?


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## AdamBeal (Aug 28, 2013)

My one TBH with a viewing window made it through the winter fine. We are probably a bit cooler than Raleigh climate wise. I looked in the window a lot over the winter (every 2 or 3 days) to check on the bees. Got below zero for a low a couple of days. My bees swarmed last fall so I was left with a small cluster of bees to overwinter but they made it. The nice thing about the window is I could shine the flashlight between the combs and see the bees moving around. Was nice to be able to check anytime I wanted to see if they were still alive.


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## Lonestarbees (Aug 8, 2013)

I started with one TBH that made it through the winter, and now I have three that all made it through this winter. The first winter I was a little paranoid, so I wrapped the whole thing in sheets of styrofoam and never opened the window. This winter with three, I put a sheet of styrofoam on the top of the topbars and under the wooden covers since the most heat would be lost at the top and left the rest uncovered. My fist hive is the only one with an observation window with the wooden cover, but since I didn't have styrofoam on it this year, when we had ice storms or really cold weather, I taped cardboard over it just to cover the cracks so wind wouldn't get in and cool the plexiglass. I also was able to check them all winter and see the size of the cluster and if they were still alive. Whether any of this made any difference, I don't know. But they did only have the piece of styrofoam on top and nothing else, just the one-inch-thick wood, and they're all doing great. I don't have any Langs to compare this to.


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

I had 4 hives going into winter. Condensation killed three of them. The only hive that survived had an observation window. My naive theory is that moisture may have condensed on the glass instead of at the top. However, I have a friend whose 2 hives both have glass, and condensation still killed one of them. So maybe I'm back to square one.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

My 3 TBH's and 2 nucs came through winter just fine and are booming. Our climate is probably most like your part of NC. I am having some condensation issues in March, but I believe that is due to the nectar they are bringing in as I am not feeding them syrup but letting them build up on their own. Many Lang beeks in this area lost massive amounts of hives and nucs due to that cold snap in Feb.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

I think where and how the entrances are located can play a big part in overwintering. One of my hives that didn't make it had a center, long side, entrance aligned with the combs (Chandler style), while another that made it through fine (and has every winter for the last five years) has an entrance at one end, perpendicular to the comb. The bees in the latter keep several empty combs as a wind break or buffer between the entrance and the brood nest. In the former hive, which I only had two years, I found the dead bees clinging to the brood, which was directly in line with the entrance. There was ventilation through the ceiling and into the roof, so condensation wasn't the problem (no mold or wetness of any kind inside the hive). If I had added a periscope entrance to protect against the chilling wind, I believe that hive would have made it through, too.


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## BeeGora (Oct 22, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> >Just wondering what the general consensus might be?
> A consensus? In beekeeping? Surely you jest? :doh:


Thanks for all the responses.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I haven't experienced moisture issues in my TBHs. Is there some mold, yes, but it doesn't rain down moisture on them. What is the hive configuration? It may be something about your location. I don't insulate the hive in the winter, but if I did I wouldn't insulate the sides, thinking that maybe the moisture would collect on the sides first instead of the top of the hive.


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

In my KTBH, the queen seem active about 8 frames off from the entrance. Reading MB site, do TBH folks move the cluster closer to entrance in preparation for winter or leave them alone and let them figure it out ?


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

Last winter, a warmer than normal winter, I had 7 TBHs make it through the winter. Went into winter with 7 as well, in 3 of the 7 the clusters moved a little bit, maybe 6 bars. In 3, the cluster did not move from their fall position, and the last one the cluster moved all the way to the back of the hive, by March/April. All hives had a Top Entrance, and 2 inches of 25psi Styrofoam on the top. Some had insulation on the long, north side, some did not. Two hives also had long side, end, entrances that were open in addition to the top entrance.
This was my 3rd winter, and my first winter to get anything through. The first two winters, I made mistakes that killed my bees! I would like to think that I am now a better beekeeper, but I must also factor in the warmer winter. What I found interesting was that in general, my club lost the same if not more hives as previous years. I was expecting the overall club success numbers to go up! I am the only TBH beek in my club. LOL


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Jon Wolff said:


> If I had added a periscope entrance to protect against the chilling wind, I believe that hive would have made it through, too.


The first TBH I built has a side end entrance with a periscoping cover over two 3/4" holes closer to the top. I have witnessed heavy moisture dripping from the entrance of the periscope in the winter, and have even seen it frozen with tiny icicles. It appears that when the warm air leaving the hive gets somewhat trapped in the periscope, it works to condense the moisture in this way, outside the hive. Something to think about. Have had it overwinter successfully for 3 years, but that's been the case with all my hives so far, knock on wood.


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## crmauch (Mar 3, 2016)

DaisyNJ said:


> In my KTBH, the queen seem active about 8 frames off from the entrance. Reading MB site, do TBH folks move the cluster closer to entrance in preparation for winter or leave them alone and let them figure it out ?


I think that would depend. Do you have a side, center entrance or an entrance on the end? Or something in between?


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

crmauch said:


> I think that would depend. Do you have a side, center entrance or an entrance on the end? Or something in between?


3/4 inch holes on one end of the long side. I can close any of those with a wine cork. I also have one 3/4 inch hole on the same side on top for ventilation (screened for now).


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## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

I have side entrances at the end of my tbhs. I use a telescoping entrance. The bees start clustering near the entrance end then work back away the entrance. I put a batten of insulation between the top bars and the roof.

In the winter, I take off the roof and insulation then feel the top bars to find where the cluster is and how big it is. It would be interesting to use a infrared camera to take a picture of the heat signature then compare it between hives and over time.


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

I have one tb hive and it has middle entrances. They went to one end to over winter. It had a window but I never saw the cluster. Near spring I moved a far away outside bar and blew a little air in and heard a nice buzzing roar. They are much bigger this year l. I look forward to seeing how they do again.


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