# C.F. Koehnen & Sons



## Jer733

Wanted to put a big thank you to C.F. Koehnen and Sons.

Have ordered several queens from Nichole and she is always great.

Has a queen that I was forced to sit in the cage for 2 extra nights and it is doing great now! 

Very happy and look forward to a long and prosperous relationship.


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## Tom G. Laury

*Koehnens*

Are #1. Sometime go see their operation. 

Hesitate to say BEST but few or none BETTER.


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## alpha6

Great people to do business with and excellent queens. They run both carnis and Italians and I get both. However, their Italians this year are some of the best I have ever seen. I also like the mini cages they use and the over use of attendants outside the cages. Keeps the queens well fed and watered in case you can't place right away and the mini cages make placement quick and easy in the hive.

They will have my business for years to come.


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## Alf57

Last Thursday I received 20 Carniolan queens from Koehnen's. I agree, customer service was great, Nicole was gracious enough to post pone my shipment a couple of days due to inclimate weather here in PA. The queens look great. 
I also plan on ordering from them for years to come. Good job Koehnen's.
Al


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## Joel

We added them to our rotation this year. Just 50 queens and yes I've been dealing with Nicole as well. She's a peach! Fat queens, good delivery, now lets see how the stock does!


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## MichaelW

I've enjoyed doing business with them for the past few years. But this year, the Carni/italian queens I got where really, really good. They appeared more mature (larger, healthier looking) then the last few years. I also got excellent acceptance this year. It would have been 31 queens accepted out of 31, but one colony had a virgin which I found laying today. Their bees/genetics are always gentle too, which is essential for me.


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## jlovell

I, too, have ordered from C F Koehnen & Sons with good response. This is my first order with them, but it was handled beautifully. They shipped when they said on thursday 6/11 and the two queens were marked and packaged very well when I got them on Friday 6/12. Queens and attendants were in good health and queens were actively piping. Beautiful cordovan italians. I'm excited to see what they will do. 

:thumbsup: Recommended.

C F Koehnen & Sons
http://www.koehnen.com/
3131 Highway 45 
Glenn, California 95943
(530) 891-5216 
(530) 934-5216 
FAX (530) 934-2613


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## NorthWest_bee_guy

I can not say enough of them they are great only place i get my queens from.
they are great to work with and Other beekeepers in my area are impressed from what they see in the bees and queen I have bought from them.:applause:


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## CentralPAguy

Based on the responses from this forum, I decided to try them. 

So here is my experience.

Called them on Tuesday to order 8 queens, they shipped on Wednesday, and I received them today -- I would call this speedy.

I did ask for an email and a delivery confirmation -- Basically was told that this is their busy season and things happen so fast. So I wouldn't be getting either. I was left wondering that I just spent $150 for livestock, but wasn't sure when they would be delivered. I actually thought poorly of them for this.

One of the queens arrived dead, which can happen. Their policy is to ship out replacement queens, but I would need to pay the shipping. The shipping is $26 for Next Day Air, while the queen is $18. I then asked for credit for the dead queen, which they did. I did appreciate the credit, but was dismayed at their policy. My average price of the remaining 7 queens went up. I think that they should have eaten the cost to reship as I think most companies would do.

They did make a point to tell me that their queens were mated and they didn't know their egg laying patterns. These queens were skinny, so who knows if they mated or not. 

I think that in the future, I will try other companies that sell queens, who have verified that they are laying good brood patterns. So that's my experience.


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## Keith Jarrett

CentralPAguy said:


> , who have verified that they are laying good brood patterns. So that's my experience.


Queens are changing all the time, to have verified a laying is only short term, that's like going fishing and be verified too catch something.


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## DRUR

Keith Jarrett said:


> Queens are changing all the time, to have verified a laying is only short term, that's like going fishing and be verified too catch something.


Sorry to disagree with you. When I order a queen, I at least want it verified that she has been bred and is laying a good pattern. I can raise my own otherwise, and save the $26.00 freight and $18.00 for the queen. You order queens to save this time. When you get a drone layer or one not bred why waste your money.

I am personally glad to know this about C.F. Koehnen & Sons, but I also take note that their web site states that there customers are generally very pleased. I guess they don't aim to please everyone. 

Danny


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## alpha6

I can say that I ordered over 180 queens from CF Koehnen this year and have had nothing but good success with them. They have good patterns and are accepted well. I did have one shipment that had two queens DOA, but they made up for those plus two extra in the next shipment so I have no problem with their customer service. 

After seeing some of the problems that other commercial beeks have with other suppliers ie - poor acceptance, drone layers, spotty brood I will stick with Koehnen for now. You don't know how bad some queen breeders are till you get stuck with a couple of hundred poor quality queens.


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## DRUR

Alpha6;

Cntrlpaguy wasn't saying Koehnen had a bad reputation. No one said that they had bad queens overall. But, for someone like myself, who only orders a queen or two, If you get a bad queen for $18.00, pay $26.00 for freight, and then have to pay $26.00 to have a replacement shipped. Sorry that doesn't work for me. Large purchasers it does, the two dead queens are just put on your next large shipment and you have not lost anything. But a person who only orders one queen could be out $70.00 for a queen that has to be replaced. Overall, Koehnen seems to have a good reputation. Cntrlpaguy didn't bad mouth them, just explained the circumstances and why he wasn't satisfied. Earlier this year I ordered a $25.00 Beeweaver queen (less 10% discount), and $4.80 freight. They have been in business since 1888, catering to both the big guy, and the small guy. Cntrlpaguy purchased from Koehnen based upon all the rosy scenarios given in this thread. His scenario, is not quite so rosy, but one that needs to be posted. Everyone can read all the good, it is nice to know under what circumstances you might not be pleased. I can also understand Koehnen's side, sell an $18.00 queen and have to replace her for $26.00. That doesn't work for them. In this particular instance the business arrangement wasn't compatible for both sides.

Danny


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## Tom G. Laury

*Drur*

I agree with you; go buy you queens somewhere else.


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## mythomane

They have always been great with me. You can't ask them to eat that $26! That doesn't seem fair. They did credit you, which is more than I can say for many other companies.


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## NorthWest_bee_guy

Just FYI for centralpa some advice i would give you. Koehnen is a great company. I have heard great things from other companies that sell queens and packages. I would not but from any one more then two states away. just to much travel time even if its over night frieght. Koenhnen ships both us mail and ups so that is why I use them. And I am sorry for your loss.


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## BEES4U

These queens were skinny, so who knows if they mated or not. 

Have you checked the queens to see how big they are now that they are in egg laying production.
What breed did you purchase?
Ernie


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## DRUR

CentralPAguy said:


> They did make a point to tell me that their queens were mated and they didn't know their egg laying patterns. These queens were skinny, so who knows if they mated or not.


I would also say this, if in doubt about the policies or provisions ask questions. I take note that they were honest and forthright in giving information. If one knows the policies and then is later not satisfied with the outcome, in accordance with those policies, how can you fault Koehnen? But it sure doesn't hurt to share in what situation it is not compatible. 

Also, even a fat queen, when she is removed from laying will shrink and in comparison become skinny; and you can't expect one to be fat who has never laid. I have never ordered a "fat" queen (none were much bigger than a worker) when compared to one in my colony laying. Also, $18.00 is on the bottom pricewise for a queen and you cannot expect a tested queen for the cheap queens. 

Danny


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## CentralPAguy

I can't say that they were a bad company. It's just that there are things that could make this company from an average company into a great one.

I want companies to care about the success of my business. It would have been easy to take my email address and email me the delivery confirmation number. This past Thursday, it was raining hard -- I didn't know when they would be delivered. I worried about how long the queens would be exposed to the rain. So I went home at 10 AM and thank God that UPS put the queens in a dry spot.

Someone stated that they couldn't be expected to eat the $26. This I disagree with. I paid for 8 queens to be delivered alive to my home. Not 7 queens. I specifically chose 8 as the shipping price was the same as 7. 

I did not know their policy of shipping charges for replacement queens when I ordered. I didn't ask and they didn't offer, because we expected these queens to arrive alive. I did learn a lesson for myself to ask this specific question in the future.

In today's day and age, I want to buy from american companies who go the extra mile and value my business. Just think of the good will that could have been earned by shipping a replacement queen at their expense. I would have been satisfied and would also added my voice to those that promote this company to other beekeepers. Plus they would have kept my future business. How much is good will worth. Alot...


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## DRUR

Tom G. Laury who stated that CentralPa guy's opinion yada, yada. His quote was taken out of this post when Laury's post was removed and now this pos is not clear.

Maybe CentralPa guy's opinion does not make a great company, but his opinion does matter. I don't understand why are you trying to discount his experiences? This does matter to the rest of us in deciding to use them or not. I thank him for expressing it and sharing. Is his opinion determinative, maybe not, is it enlightening, SURE WAS FOR ME! And I have made my decision based upon his imput.

Danny


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## DRUR

Tom G. Laury said:


> You REALLY need to go buy your queens somewhere else.


That goes double for me and probably for most of the other small users out here. Let everyone be put on notice, don't buy from Koehnen if you only want a queen or two, Right? They only cater to the big purchaser, Right?

Danny


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## Joseph Clemens

I keep and raise Cordovan Italian bees and queens. Four queens is the amount I usually purchase. Every few years I purchase four queens from one of the few commercial producers of Cordovan Italian queens, then I raise my own queens using the best of these - though mine are open mated with whatever drones they meet locally. Daughter queens that show themselves to be producers of Cordovan workers can be considered as Cordovan mother queens if their colonies show themselves to be worth breeding from.

Over several years I ordered from C.F. Koehnen & Sons, three times. The first two orders were for four queens, and those queens were very nice, well formed, highly fecund, and they appeared to be mated well to Cordovan drones (all their workers exhibited the Cordovan trait). My last order was for two queens, one was a non-Cordovan (none of her brood were Cordovan), and the other was tiny, had trouble laying worker brood (many of her eggs were drones), her bees kept trying to replace her - a few months later I discovered the bees had managed to replace her. Her replacement was also Cordovan, though much better, nicely formed, highly fecund and produced a strong colony, but few of her workers were Cordovan, so she wasn't much of a candidate for breeding other Cordovan Queens.

Initially I kept in touch (e-mailed with Koehnen's), with my concerns. At first they simply told me that I was mistaken in my observations (that's a simplification). When I answered their refutations and asked for replacements, they simply stopped answering my e-mail and didn't return my phone calls. Of course my small and infrequent orders aren't much for them to worry about losing.

My most recent order of four queens, 2009 season, went to Pendell Apiaries.


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## B. Haning

I have ordered from Koehnen's 3 times since April of 2008. My first order of 5 queens had one arrive dead. The candy tube had jarred loose during shipment
and crushed the queen. I called Koehnen's and explained what happened and was offered a replacement queen if I would pay shipping. The first order had come UPS for around 20 dollars, so I asked if they would send the replacement queen via the postal service for about 5 dollars. They shipped the replacement queen the following monday and I received her, in good condition, on thursday.
So my replacement cost an extra 5 dollars. I have ordered 2 more small shipments since then. I received 4 queens in June of 2008 and 6 queens April of 2009. With regard to cordovan markings, I would guess about a third to half of the queens produce 100 percent cordovan marked workers. The other queens produce a mixture of cordovan and yellow/black marked workers. Koehnen's queens produce tremendous amounts of brood, making big colonies and eat a lot of honey. They are very gentle and quiet on the combs. They also seem to draw foundation better than other stocks of bees I have had. So I am satisfied with Koehnen's and continue to order from them in the future.


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## DRUR

Doesn't anybody buy queens for honey production anymore? 

I purchased 3 Minnesota Hygienic queen around the first of April, to requeen. 2 took and lost one in a colony where I missed the queen that I thought was AHB. I split these colonies (originally only 2 deep). These were further split to where I now have 5 and am fixing to split again. They only had about 6 frames covered after the split, were raising large amounts of brood, storing honey, with a handful of bees. I can tell these bees will be honey producers. Don't care for bees that eat a lot of honey, I want bees that produce a lot of honey, that's why I keep bees. I don't care if there pretty and yellow, specially if they don't make me surplus honey. If I raise my own queens and produce 125 pounds of honey, if I buy queens they better produce more than my raised queens, or why buy them?

Danny


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## kwest

I am a new beek and I ordered 2 packages of carni's from Koehnen this spring. My one package was great queen was alive they are very gentle and drawing out foundation fast and i just split them. my second hive the bees were great but the queen was dead. I called them and they quickly shipped up a replacement queen. I recieved the second queen free of charge but I paid for the shipping. I live clear up in montana and why is it there fault the queen died in shipment. I was just glad that they had the bees and it was my choice to get them shipped this far and I am willing to take the risk. Give me a break people if you want a guarunteed alive queen they probably need to add another $15.00 to the price of each. Volume buyers of course get some perks that is just good business. I am very happy with Koehnen and would strongly reccomend them. My bees have been super gently. My 3 year old boy and me work the bees all the time without any headnets or gloves and coats. DRUR maybee you should give someone a try before you become so opinionated about them. I just read a post this last week where you were hammering someone because they charged $25 for a mated and laying proven queen and you were not happy. Now your not happy with koehneen because of shipping. give me a break. just raise your own queens and be happy.


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## NorthWest_bee_guy

Times may change and people come and go but it seams that people never change. As a younger person raised on my parents horse breding ranch. People payed a breding fee non refundable with no guarantee full term birth just a guarantee that their horse would be bred to the stud they chose. but oh my gosh if it was a fole they wanted a colt or visa versa and their money back or the horse miscarried four months after it left the ranch they blamed us Sorry! An just like horses, bees are live stock things happen bees die. best way to prevent things like this happening is 1 buy local go pick up your queens yourself. 2 raise your own queens. problem solved!


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## DRUR

kwest said:


> my second hive the bees were great but the queen was dead. I called them and they quickly shipped up a replacement queen. I recieved the second queen free of charge but I paid for the shipping. I just read a post this last week where you were hammering someone because they charged $25 for a mated and laying proven queen and you were not happy. Now your not happy with koehneen because of shipping. give me a break. just raise your own queens and be happy.


Perhaps you need to go and read the whole thread. The problem I had was that a solitation went out wanting us to buy queens for $25.00+shipping, but no information could be gotten about these queens. After this information was provided, then I supported the purchase of these queens (because of their genetics). Now if you want to buy dead bees, that's up to you (a colony with a dead queen ain't worth much), if you want to pay $26.00 shipping twice for an $18.00 queen that's up to you, but don't condemn me when I expect something for my money. 

From your dissatisfaction with my other posts I can assume you will buy a queen without knowing what you are getting, and you don't care if it is delivered live or not? Sorry, that just doesn't cut it with me, but I guess I have a higher expectation of people than you do; and I also hold myself to that same higher standard, I stand behind my business deals, and the customer is always right (within reason). 

Also, You are right I do raise my own queens, maybe you can't, but I like to expand my genetic pool with outside blood. I am willing to pay for good genetics, but not for bad genetics. 

Also, brag about the queens when they produce a good honey crop that's what it is all about, otherwise a lot of other things make better pets. Read this thread through also. CntrlPaguy was getting hammered because he was sharing his experience, I stepped in to defend his right to share. If you want just to advertise for his queens, pay for it, otherwise expect people to share their disatisfaction.

Also, almost every legitimate queen dealer I know that wants to stay in business will guarantee live delivery, except maybe the bottome feeders, which I don't need.

Danny


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## thomas

Hello when i got back into bees i got my first three packages from this company and was very happy. I just got two cordovan queens from them last week and they are laying and fat and beautiful i have had no problems with them and when they say that your bees will be at your home oin a certain day they are most companies i have dealt with in the past was ok but thier bees did not lay like these from kohnen. I do wish they would go down on thier price for packages i would be more then happy to get more of thier bees i am happy with them.

Thomas


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## CentralPAguy

Drur, I did want to thank you for stepping up and supporting my posting, which is what democracy is all about. 

--------------------------------

I do need to state that the Next Day shipping charge is $23 and not $26 for those interested in purchasing queens from this company.

I released the queens from their cages earlier this evening. The Italian queens did fatten up noticibly, while the Carnolian ones still looked rather skinny compared to the Italian queens. Since this is my first time seeing a Carnolian queen, maybe they are alot skinner than the Italians. 

In a few weeks, I should be able to see how their queens produce.


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## Jer733

I am the one that started this thread to share my positive experience with CF Koehnen. As a hobby person with only 15-20 hives I have made several small purchases from them with positive experiences. 

It is obviously a good thing for us to share our various experiences with companies so we all know what to expect. I can see that a vast majority of the individual postings have also had good experiences. As a professional businessman, I can testify that not EVERY transaction from ANY company is ALWAYS positive. I also understand that if I bought 500 queens a year I would receive certain perks that I do not receive buying 10 a year.

It appears that some people’s expectations may be a bit lofty. In fact, if anyone finds another queen supplier that will:

1) Guarantee the breeding of queens
2) Guaranteed to arrive alive
3) Guaranteed to lay solid patterns 
4) Competitively priced 
5) Replaced free if the buyer calls

Please let us all know what their name and contact info is.


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## DRUR

Jer733 said:


> I am the one that started this thread to share my positive experience with CF Koehnen.
> It is obviously a good thing for us to share our various experiences with companies so we all know what to expect. I can see that a vast majority of the individual postings have also had good experiences.
> It appears that some people?s expectations may be a bit lofty. In fact, if anyone finds another queen supplier that will:
> 
> 1) Guarantee the breeding of queens
> 2) Guaranteed to arrive alive
> 3) Guaranteed to lay solid patterns
> 4) Competitively priced
> 5) Replaced free if the buyer calls
> 
> Please let us all know what their name and contact info is.


Yes, if you intend to receive the above guarantees your expectations for certain are a bit lofty, but if you expect live guarantee of the bees or products, many provide this. How many of the above do you believe Koehnen "guarantees" (1-3, 5)? I think NONE, but I have emailed them to be sure. 

So what is your point?
:scratch:
Danny


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## alpha6

I think what he was referring to was that if you know of one company that will guarantee a live queen delivery then let him know. I sure don't. Most I know will replace the queen but you pay for shipping. The others have you file a claim with the USPS to get your money back if they arrive dead. We all know you have a beef with Koehnen and you have beat that dead horse again and again but he is asking you to list another breeder that promises what you are claiming.

That was his point. :doh:


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## DRUR

alpha6 said:


> I think what he was referring to was that if you know of one company that will guarantee a live queen delivery then let him know. I sure don't. Most I know will replace the queen but you pay for shipping. The others have you file a claim with the USPS to get your money back if they arrive dead. We all know you have a beef with Koehnen and you have beat that dead horse again and again but he is asking you to list another breeder that promises what you are claiming.
> 
> That was his point. :doh:



:doh:
That's not what he asked, read his list. 

I have no beef with Koehnen. Where did you get that idea? My intervention was when CntrlPaguy, posted a bad experience with Koehnen and everyone jumped on him for sharing his experience. 

This is a consumer report thread. Others reported their good experiences, Fine; and no one jumped on them for reporting their good experiences. But, several others have reported bad experiences, now how about giving them there right of freedom of expression, :doh: or is this a no no. 

Also, others were pleased that there bees arrived dead, as they said they had no problems with paying freight twice because of dead bees. Read my prior post, and point out your point where I have a beef, otherwise, don't make baseless statements.

Danny


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## WOpp

I have been doing business with Koehnen's for the past 18 years, having bought thousands of queens and several thousand packages in years past. They are having the same problems we all have so don't be so shocked if you find a dead queen once in a while, just suckit up life goes on. I have no problem recommending there bees for beekeepers very large or just getting started with your first hive. Koehnens are GOOG HONEST folks running bees for a living like a lot of us.. They ship as promised .


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## Jer733

Alpha is correct; I am simply making the point that I am not aware of ANYONE out there that can offer what I listed for a competitive price.

I hope that everyone takes the opportunity this forum affords to communicate in an open manner and not use it to just be confrontational.


Jer


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## kwest

i just wanted to put in another good word in for koehnen. i recieved another 2 queens about 1 month ago. they were both alive. these queens can really lay some eggs. they are laying huge patterns of brood packed solid from top to bottom and left to right. i am very pleased with their queens. my colonies are building up in stregth quickly.


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## the doc

this is a copy of another post but probably belongs here. I ordered from koehnens this year instead of georgia packages. 
Their office staff was very courteous every time i called and i was able to change my order easily.
The bees arrived on time as scheduled back in january. They were nice size packages. They were a little different package set up than I had before so i had a steep learning curve

I was slightly worried due to all the weather troubles in cali effecting queen breeding, etc. Our weather here has been awful, but I finally have inspected the packages after installing on april 6th Each one was installed on about 9 framed of drawn comb. Onewas installed in a top bar. 3 carniolan and 3 italian. They have been fed on syrup and homemade pollen substitute based on brewers yeast.

THey have almost filled the bottom medium (i use all mediums) with capped brood, larva, eggs. Very happy with them. One has even layed some drones, but in areas of previously drawn drone come.

Overall very happy with these bees.


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