# Help, beekeeping is illegal, kind of



## xbted (Jan 9, 2010)

Well, I've been taking care of all of the details so I can start my hive this spring, and have come to find out, that as far as anyone can tell in the city, that one cannot have a beehive on their property unless it's zoned agricultural. Well, I'm zoned residential, so...

I'm taking this to the city council. However, I need some assistance- in particular, I could really appreciate any resources you all know of that could help me make my argument that beekeeping in the suburban environment is a good thing. Basically what I think this is going to come down to is the pros (pollination services, supporting a species in peril) to the cons (the stinger). So if I had some documentation with quantified data, it would really help my cause. 

I'm obviously going to conduct a thorough literature search, but I was wondering if anyone knew off the top of their heads any great resources I could use, and/or if anyone who knows of any groups that support people trying to argue in support of urban beekeeping.


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

Long fight ahead so your best bet is to get the hive and say nothing. In two or three years when no one is bothered you go and make your case for the bees. A mother and son in Evanston IL did a big media blitz on the bees, it turned out the neigbors just did not like them so they made it a hassle for them to do anything. But they did get a law passed for the city to have bees but only two hives for every so many miles.

Good Luck


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## Hampton (Apr 24, 2007)

NYC is looking at getting their ban removed. You may be able to look up a thread that was just on here a few days ago to get some help. I have been in contact with those folks. I'll send you their information as soon as I can get my hands on it a bit later. Let me take a look at some of the local ordinances and talk to some of the other local urban beeks here. I'll see if I can get you a copy of the ordinances used here. Good Luck.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Unless there's a law that specifically prohibits honeybees or specifically labels honeybees as agricultural livestock, I would just go ahead and get a hive. Get into the arguments only if someone starts complaining.
People love to tell you you can't do something _if you ask them_. They all have this idea of bees being vicious and deadly, like yellowjackets, attacking innocent people in swarms.


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## Randall Clark (Oct 29, 2009)

Omie makes a good point. There's an old saying that serves many of us well...

It is better to to beg for forgiveness than ASK for Permission....

Start a hive and see how it goes... whether there is any neighbor complaints or anything. Build up some "proof" so to speak that having bees in your back yard is not causing any problems. It gives you something to fight with if the day should come that some city official says "NO, You Can't"


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

xbted said:


> Well, I've been taking care of all of the details so I can start my hive this spring, and have come to find out, that as far as anyone can tell in the city, that one cannot have a beehive on their property unless it's zoned agricultural. Well, I'm zoned residential, so...


Do you have a garage? Put your hive in your garage w/ a tube through the wall for their entrance. There probably aren't any regulations about having bees in the wall of your garage.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Randall Clark said:


> It is better to to beg for forgiveness than ASK for Permission....


Sorry Randall, the adage is "It is easier to get forgiveness than permission." I don't know about being better to beg for forgiveness.


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## Randall Clark (Oct 29, 2009)

A similar issue was discussed on a thread not too long ago. Can you provide the language in the city ordinance pertaining to this? I wouldn't just take the say-so of some city clerk that thinks bees may be lumped in with cows and pigs, were you informed of this by the city attorney?

Personally, I would just play ignorance and start your hive unless you have already raised eyebrows. 

I guess the language in my quotation has changed a little from NY to OK. However, the general meaning is the same. And yes, I have had to beg forgiveness more often than I care to admit......... Perhaps Okies are more inclined to beg than New Yorkers??? haha


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## Randall Clark (Oct 29, 2009)

As a thought to attempt to answer some of your question, do a search on your State Department of Agriculture and see what information is posted concerning the benefits of honey bees, their needed contribution to the world food supply, etc. As a law enforcement officer, I can tell you... A law is a law is a law and most City Attorney's and Judges will follow it, irregardless of what you can show and prove. This really boils down to what you as an individual does within your own conscious. The worst that would probably happen if you just start a hive is they will tell you to remove it, unless you have already drawn attention to your intentions. Good Luck, and DO keep us informed of how this turns out, as this seems to affect a lot of urban/residential beeks.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Randall Clark said:


> Perhaps Okies are more inclined to beg than New Yorkers??? haha


Learned it from a Virginia who really learned it while in the Army. You Okies crack me up.


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## Randall Clark (Oct 29, 2009)

Us Law Enforcement Officers have another similar saying:

It is better to be "tried" by 12 than "carried" by 6.


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## xbted (Jan 9, 2010)

I'd love to go ahead and just do it, however, I learned that I can't keep bees on residential property from my insurance company, which called the city and actually discovered this fact. So if i kept bees at home, I would lose my coverage if something were to happen. Nope, if I want to have a backyard hive, I'm going to have to do this the hard way. Thanks for all the suggestions though, I appreciate it.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

keep in mind, people arguing against bees isn't a logical argument.

It's based on fear. mostly fear of being stung and having that one person in who knows how many having a true allergic reaction and suing someone else.

They will try to defend that fear fear with 'what if" arguments that indicate potential financial and health losses.

I have called city offices in several towns and often, beekeeping is a topic so little discussed, most staff have no idea what the laws actually are, that even happens when I talk to city attorneys offices. Don't take a phone call as the last word, where laws are involved, accept ONLY what is written in law.

I think you are in Kansas, Kansas is predominantly an agricultural state.

According to Kansas statutes, beekeeping and it's products, supplies, etc.. are identified as 'Agricultural. kansas statute

In Garden City, Kansas city ordinances, "Sec. 10-218. Same– Specifically."

Bees are not among those listed as not able to be kept:



> Sec. 10-218. Same– Specifically.
> 
> It shall be unlawful for any person to keep, maintain or possess or control within the city any of the following animals:
> 
> ...


Under Garden City, Kansas city ordinances, There are no fees or registration for keeping bees.

All in all, Garden City, Kansas does *not* have anything restricting the keeping of bees in their published city ordinances.

From the above Kansas State statutes, beekeeping is loosely monitored and allowed in the State.

AS the State does allow beekeeping and there is nothing to prohibit beekeeping in the city ordinance, State law takes takes precedence 

If nothing else, keep copies of the relative State statutes and the City ordinances and if they protest, show them those documents and have them show you where you are not allowed to have them.

Good Luck and if I can be of any assistance, let me know.

Big Bear


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## runner_114 (Aug 31, 2009)

If you go ahead and get all your stuff, bees, equip, and such and it does not work out im only 50 miles east, I would buy your stuff or keep them for you until you found a place to put them that way you would not have any risk if things dont work out.


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## Mark in Kansas (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks, bigbearomaha, I live in Kansas too and that's helpful !


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

You also have to take into consideration any county ordinances and if you live in a housing sub, any existing covenants signed when moving in.

I couldn't find anything in the Finney County site to show if there were any rules regarding beekeeping, that may require further investigation.

Big Bear


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Don't you just love bureaucrats? I like Bigbear's posts... there is no law prohibiting you from keeping bees in Garden City, KS. So, don't tell anyone, just do it. If you have close neighbors, give them some honey. If city hall comes down on you eventually, and they probably won't, unless you call attention to yourself, there are plenty of alfalfa fields in your county, and that makes real good honey.

I used to live in Stafford, south of you, and kept 16 hives beside a farmer's alfalfa... I loved it, and so did he.
Regards,
Steven


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Mark in Kansas said:


> I live in Kansas too and that's helpful !



There definately is no Kansas regulation of honeybess, however local zoning may apply.


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## xbted (Jan 9, 2010)

Nabber86 said:


> There definately is no Kansas regulation of honeybess, however local zoning may apply.



And that's exactly where the problem lies. I'm waiting to hear back from the city zoning comissioner, or someone like that. There are no laws against honeybees, but you have to be zoned agricultural to have them on your property. So we'll see.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Earlier in this thread you said: 



> I learned that I can't keep bees on residential property from my insurance company, which called the city and actually discovered this fact. So if i kept bees at home, I would lose my coverage if something were to happen.


That seems mighty suspicious to me. Souds more like your insurance company is the one that has a problem with it.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

,


> but you have to be zoned agricultural to have them on your property.


I am curious where they get that idea. Could you ask them to point it out specifically in the ordinance? because it doesn't seem to be in writing. If it isn't in writing, it isn't there.

Is it a County law perhaps? Often the county dept of health or similar regulatory dept will be responsible for determining where and how bees are to be placed and in some cases do inspections of proposed property where one wants to keep bees.

All I would ask you to do is not 'take their word for it'. make them spell it out.

Big Bear


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## xbted (Jan 9, 2010)

Talked to city zoning- basically they say that if it's not a commercial operation, and only 1 hive, then they don't see why it wouldn't be permissable. The worst that would happen, is that I would have to fill out an application for zone use, or something like that, so they want me to come by city hall and just explain what I intend to do. So I guess it's not hopeless!!!


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## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

I would contact the county ag agent . I think he would help and if he does he would pull a lot of weight in your favor Nothing to loose if he don't


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## NuclearDruid (Oct 28, 2004)

Agree with Merlyn. Give Mr. Whitehill a call at the Extension Office (620-272-3670).

ND


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## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

Cantact your county AG agent. He can help a lot


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## beeking1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's the good old American way. Create a choice for the people wherever you may live. How? You go to the council :gh: and say, "This town, county or city needs someone to save the good people from bee swarms. After all, Mr/Madame Mayor, bees are beneficial in the right circumstances. We should not and can not exterminate all the bees in the air and on the ground to make the world safe for people. Bees perform a necessary service to nature, humanity and Providence. Therefore, Mr/Madame Mayor, I have the necessary quafications and training and would volunteer my expert services *UNPAID* to become the city's/county's/town's first official beemaster." There you have it :applause: You've created conflict for the people where you live. You have marketed yourself as an unpaid civil servant and now, how can the police and the firemen or the hospitals complain about you? In the process, it's now clear that you must be allowed to keep bees on your property. The laws and the lawyers will stand aside; the prosecutors and City Attorneys will not try to use you to advance their careers at YOUR expense. They will see you as a Good Samaritan who will add benefit for no money. Then, you bring the children into this. You tell the council that you will be conducting EDUCATION in the schools as part of your position :banana: I could go on, but you get the point...... Good luck


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## Beaver Dam (May 27, 2008)

I'd find me a new insurance co. I like your thought Beeking1.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I doubt the insurance company talked to the city, they probably didn't want the liability & just told you its illegal.


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## Buffalolick (Jan 26, 2010)

What happened to the land of the free when you have to ask some gov't official's permission to put a bee hive on your own property...argh!


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

I do know the last time,I looked but the boxes i placed there for storage.a colony of insects.must have just moved in.Like the wasp it's also a insect can your insurance drop you from haveing one of them on your property.lol
as far as the stinging goes did you see where the bee came from.can not bee mine all my bees are by there homes see them on my propery.post private property signs keep out.


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## xbted (Jan 9, 2010)

Just a little update, we're still waiting to hear from the city. We had a pretty bad snow storm yesterday/this morning so it may be an extra day or two. Got my shipment in from Dadant, so now we're ready to get started!


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## Randall Clark (Oct 29, 2009)

Hope you hear good news. I find it really sad and disturbing that "urban beekeeping" in many cities across this great Country we call the U>S>A> has to resort to the political practice of "Don't ask, Don't Tell" like is used in the military. Show your City Council Members a photo of the working hive on the White House Lawn and tell them the President or his family are not afraid of honey bees..... Good Luck!!


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## xbted (Jan 9, 2010)

The city, after having reviewing my intention to place a hive in my back yard, has determined that there are no reasons why I should not be allowed to keep bees, and has given my the green light! My insurance company, after being informed that I in fact do not have to be zoned agricultural to have bees, has also determined that beekeeping (on a hobby scale) is compatible with my homeowners policy, and will continue to cover me even if I have a hive. And everyone at the the insurance office wants to come over and see the hive and my bees because, as my agent lady said, this is the neatest thing they have ever had anyone call them about. So, everyone seems to think this is generally going to be a good thing, which is really nice for a change. So thanks everyone for the support- now it's time to get ready for my buzzy friends.


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## Mark in Kansas (Dec 10, 2009)

YAY !!!:applause::applause::applause:


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## Hampton (Apr 24, 2007)

That is great news. Good luck and have fun.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

that is tremendous. great news.

another victory for the bees.

Big Bear


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## runner_114 (Aug 31, 2009)

:applause:Good deal


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