# Scout bees at bait hive within 30 minutes, how good are my chances?



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

We had quite a few bees showing up at our shop last summer during the drought, crawling in soda cans, etc....

I set out two bait hives in town, at my business today. I sprayed some Swarm Commander on top of the frames and one squirt at the entrance. I went in the office for about 30 minutes. I walked outside and my non beekeeping brother rounded the corner and asked me how long the beehives had been there. I told him it wasn't a hive, it was swarm trap. He said, "well whatever you want to call it's full of bees."

It wasn't exactly full of bees but it did have 20-30 bees flying in and out of the entrance. The other box I put out had about the same. I didn't check them this afternoon. My question is, what are the odds of having a good number of scout bees but not getting a swarm? I know you can't count your chickens before they hatch, or your bees before they're in a hive, it's just an anxious curiosity question. I've only ever seen scout bees at one other bait hive in a previous year and I didn't catch a swarm in that box, so I'm trying not to get my hopes up. One trap is a 5 over 5 nuc with frames only in the top box and the other is a 10 frame deep. Both traps have one frame of old nasty brood comb that wax moths got to in the hive and frames with Acorn double waxed foundation. 10 frames in the deep, 5 frames in the nuc. I did a cut out last week and removed some board that are coated in 1/8-1/4" of propolis. I put a piece of that board in each trap too. And, just because odfrank suggested it, I put a piece of old wood on top of each hive. It looks goofy but if it works, it works. LOL 

Just curious what some of you trapping pros have to say about how reliable scout bees are at predicting a swarm capture.

Also, I bought the Swarm Commander last year and "lost" it right after I sprayed my bait hives. I was cleaning out some of the junk in the bed of my truck last week and found the bottle. It had gotten hot enough last summer that the bottle warped and the label is faded and peeling off, but apparently it still smells pretty good to bees.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Brad
I had a bunch of empty hives and one day I saw some scouts at a trap right by my garage door that had scouts looking pretty hard. I went and looked at everything I had empty and they all had a couple of bees checking them but not as many as was by my garage door. The swarm moved in with in two hours.

However, in the fall I watched a hive with scout bees all day and at one point in the day I saw a good 150 bees come and do figure eights at the tree, I thought this is it and I did not get the swarm and I had a trap in the woods the same time this was going on that had bees staying all night. I still don't get what was going on there.

My view is that they have probly moved in by now based on your description and time of year cause I watched two come to traps with in hours in spring.

One thing for sure, if you get there tommorrow and the bees are still flying all around the out side of the box, I would say you don't have them yet but if they are coming and going from the entrance and don't look like they are measuring but more like they are working. I bet you have them.

One of the swarms I watch come in really scared me cause right before the bees showed up, the activity had dwindled down to almost nothing for 15 mins and then wow, here they all came.

Bees don't even look at my traps and so if I see even one bee looking at it, I am going to start getting excited. It was that way last year also.

Good luck.
gww


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## chazman (Dec 2, 2010)

If they are guarding the entrance after dark, they have moved in. Best not to move them until after a week or so .. wait till you see pollen going in if you don't know when they moved in.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I'll check them in the morning and see what's going on. I did see a little fighting at the entrance on the 5 over 5. I know none had moved in at that point, so maybe it was scouts from 2 different hives.


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

Just another thought, yesterday I refreshed my trap with LGO, it had no activity, within a couple of minutes of putting the LGO I had 3 bees checking it out. Scout bees or foragers that just smelled the LGO, that is the question. An observation from a trap where I caught a swarm, scout bees to me are really working hard checking out the potential new home, they go in and out, fly around the trap but bees just checking out the LGO sprayed on the entrance just land on the entrance and check out the LGO.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

These were flying in and out. I didn't see any "orientation" flights around the front though. There is no activity at the one closest to the front door of our shop this morning, but it's still a little early for much. I haven't checked the other one yet.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

It's been cool and windy all day. Not a great bee foraging day. I didn't see any bees at either trap until around noon. Still have them checking both traps out but nobody has moved in yet.


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## Reef Resiner (Jun 9, 2015)

Normally if it's just a few scout bees for a long time it means the trap doesn't meet requirements. 30 or more is a good sign. It should ramp up... I've seen a hundred or more on a trap once, it went dead and then had a swarm 18 days later. Patience is key especially after getting a big bite.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Fighting at the entrance is always a good sign.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

I had all the signs of swarms moving into bait hives last year, even had bees cleaning up the comb and protecting the entrances. I waited until there was pollen coming in, swarm commander is too good of a attractant in that respect.


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

We had scout bees all over one of our traps for the last few days. I was convinced a swarm would move in any moment. But nothing yet. Patience is the name of the game I suppose.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

soarwitheagles said:


> Patience is the name of the game I suppose.


I've never been good at that patience game. I came up here to the shop Saturday and checked the traps. Nothing, no scouts either, but it was cool and windy. I'm not checking them this morning, because it's raining, and I mean R-A-I-N-I-N-G at the moment and it's supposed to be this way most of the day. Rain again Wednesday, then most likely too cold and windy to fly Thursday. A couple of no fly days, and being cramped up inside an overcrowded hive will get more hives thinking about swarming.... I'm betting the end of next week will be a big swarm week around here.


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

Brad,

Best of luck and please share some pics when you catch those swarms!

Here today, I am seeing a non-stop flow of bees coming out of one of the swarm traps. Not sure if a swarm entered when I was gone...

Will check later tomorrow.

Cheers!

PS Here is an interesting article of a local swarm somewhat close to us:

http://www.kcra.com/article/swarm-o...eighborhood-forces-to-shelter-inplace/9226891

Unfortunately, the poor beek was taken to the hospital!


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

mcon672 said:


> Fighting at the entrance is always a good sign.


Why is this?


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

you will always have bees checking out your traps, this does not mean they are scouts.
most times they are not swarm scouts, just workers checking out the scent in the air.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

In my location except maby on the very first few flying days, I never see a bee look at my trap unless a swarm is going some where and then there might be a few bees looking at my empty hives and such but one will always have the advantage and have lots more interest. I get excited if I see any bee around one of my traps. I think in late fall, I will see more that might not be a swarm. I from now on will sorta watch that as a sign that maby there is a derth.

Cheers
gww


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

An update to the thread: I put 2 traps at our business which is a semi truck and trailer shop. One deep and one 5 over 5 nuc. In both traps I put one frame of old dark drawn comb and the remainder of the frames were foundation. I put Swarm Commander in the traps and bees checked them out for 7-14 days. I then read, most likely on beesource, that using foundation "blocked off" part of the hive making it appear smaller to the scout bees and it was best to use starter strips in the frames. I cut down a piece of Acorn foundation into 4 cell tall starter strips. Incidentally the Acorn starter strips work perfectly in grooved top frames. I just tapped the starter strips into the frames with a hammer. They won't fall out and need nothing else to help hold them in. I tried using some old Ritecell but the cells are molded deep enough that even using a hammer, I couldn't get them into the groove. That's not an advertisement for Acorn, just posting that to keep someone from cutting up a piece of Ritecell.

So anyway, after putting the frames with starter strips into the traps 7-10 days ago and putting SC onto a napkin, inside a ziplock bag, in the top of each hive, scouting started up again. Last Friday morning it was evident that something was different. There were 100's of bees furiously flying around each trap. Into and out of both of them. That afternoon around 3:00 a swarm moved into the 5 over 5 nuc.


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## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

Bees will start scouting as soon as they begin building queen cups. So you may get bees tomorrow, or in 3 weeks. but if you are getting scouts, its all good. Now just add patience. Swarm Commander generally does get bees showing up in a few minutes. Seems to work.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Typically robbers will show up that fast just to check it out. Scout bees will soon follow though.


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