# comb around Queen cells



## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

Hi. I am new to post, but have read for a couple years. I have kept bees for six years, 10 hives or so. I have raised Queens twice a few years ago by grafting. Took Marla Spivak's Queen Rearing course 4-5 years ago. This year I decided to use the Cloake Board method and instead of grafting, I tried Rob Andrews idea from the Cleveland Beekeeper Association page that I found the connection to from this forum, which is basically using a 1/2" copper pipe to remove young larvae in their cell and attach the cell to a plug and put the plug and cell on a Queen Cell bar. So... all this introduction to say that when I looked at the Queen cells 8 days after the Queen cell plugs were put in, I found comb all around the cells, I opened up four of them, and three just had royal jelly in them, and one had a large Queen larvae in it. I left the other four, but there is all this comb I am wondering how a Queen would ever get out if she ever develops. Also, there is no clearly defined Queen cell under the comb, just the original wax cell and an open area in the comb. I plan to wait to see what happens, but has anyone seen this. Is it a lost cause? I hate to make up nucs and put Queen cells in that have no Queens. Also, the larvae I saw after eight days seemed immature considering she should emerge in 5 days. Thanks ahead of time for your comments.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

two things might help keeping the bees from covering the cells with wax.
1) make sure they have somewhere else to draw wax.
2) use a 3/4" cell bar frame.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Place a frame of foundation next to the grafting frame. This will help.


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## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

*comb around queen cells*

Jim, I am trying this method too right now. I also found lots of comb around the cells. I fed the bees syrup during the cell building stage. Perhaps this was the cause of the extra comb. I should know in about 2 weeks if the queens are able to emerge and get past all that comb. I also wonder how the developing queen is able to breathe through all that wax? Were you feeding the bees syrup during the cell building stage?

I don't know if putting a frame of foundation adjacent to the developing cells is the answer. It would seem that you would want to place the developing cells between frames of brood in order to maximize nurse bees tending those cells.

M. Bush, what do you think? I believe you have had some experience with this technique.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Morris: If you put a frame of foundation next to the frame of cells, it will clean up the problem. On the other side, you can have a frame of brood, pollen, and honey.


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## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks. I wasn't feeding, but it is a strong hive and there is a honeyflow on. I will try adding foundation next time and try a wider cell bar. I appreciate the input.


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## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

Well, I checked the Queen cells last night, the day before they should have emerged, and there were only two large dead larvae and four others with only dried royal jelly. I'll try again next year. I would be interested to hear from you Morris, or others that have tried the Rob Andrews Cleveland Beekeeper Assoc copper pipe method of Queen rearing.


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## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

*comb around queen cells*

Jim,

I have started two sets of queen cells using the punch method. In the first set I started with 8 punched cells. Of these 8 I got one nice queen cell. On the 25th of this month I will check on the mating nuc I transfered this cell to. The main problem I found in this first set was a lack of punched cells sticking to the pegs.

For the second set I corrected the peg problem by placing the punched cells in cell protectors that I cut in half. Keeping just the wide base and placing the punched cells into this base. I then hung the base and cell on the bar that previously held the pegs. By cutting the protector in half I felt that it would provide greater access to the cells by the nurse bees. The ears on the cell protectors prevented the whole assembly from falling. OK, sounds like it should have worked. Four days later, I found that indeed none of the cells fell out of the cell protectors. That bad news is that unknown to me, tha bees had started queen cells on the brood frames the day before I added the punched cells. So, although none of the punched cells fell off, I had no cells develop from them. 

The next time I try this I will do a better job of looking for cells already started.

Would be very interested in hearing other beeks results.

Morris


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

Jim S said:


> Well, I checked the Queen cells last night, the day before they should have emerged, and there were only two large dead larvae and four others with only dried royal jelly.
> 
> did you open the cells or did the bees/bee?


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## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. Stangardner, I openned the cells, I put the cells up to the light and could not see Queens inside, though it was a little bit of a risk because I couldn't be sure.

Thanks Morris. I would love to hear from people who have used this method and had success. The method sounds great, but I don't know how much of the problem is due to the method. If bees will build supercedure cells from a regular cell, you would think they would build Queen cells from this punch method. I had a hard time getting the punch to attach to the peg, so I used a brush with hot wax to attach the sides and bottom of the punch to the peg.


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## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

*Results are in.*

On the 25th I checked on the mating nuc that was given the one queen cell I produced from the Cleveland method. Well, it worked! Lots of capped brood, good pattern, and vey few missed cells. The queen could have been a little larger, but she seemed to be doing a good job. Perhaps she will elongate her abdomen a little as she gets into full egg production. The down side is that I only got one queen from the eight punched cells that I started with. WHY? On reflection, I wonder if putting eggs from a Russian hive into a non-Russian cell builder decreased the yield. Also, perhaps I would have got better results if I covered the punched cells with a damp paper towel and I continued to punch and place cells on the support bar. What do others think about this?

Has anyone else had results? Would love to hear about it.


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