# Did I Re-queen My New Hive Too Late?



## TTP_California (Jun 11, 2016)

*Did I re-queen my hive too late? * Hive history below.

*Friday, May 13*: Received 5 frames from a split with a queen. I was told this nuc supposedly had 4 frames of open brood (eggs) and 1 frame honey
*Saturday, May 14*: Put 5 frames into my medium langstroth. Found the queen but did not see eggs, but attributed this to being a newbie.
*Monday, May 23*: Saw the queen, but no eggs and no open or capped brood. No additional frames drawn out. Decided queen was failing.
*Thursday, June 2*: No eggs, no queen. Didn't see any evidence of a laying worker. Confirmed that this queen was failing
*Wednesday, June 8*: Found the queen and pinched pinched her on the ground near the hive. Waited 24 hours, for the hive to realize they were queenless.
*Thursday, June 9*: Introduced new queen bee in cage with candy plug and attendants. All attendants were all alive, new queen active.

I will wait one week before checking on the queen and hopefully releasing her (or hopefully she has been released and accepted when I inspect).

I am now concerned the original bees I was given are too old at this point to care for any new eggs the queen will hopefully be laying in a week. Even if they do care for the eggs and open brood for some time, will they all be dead before the eggs hatch? Any thoughts on my re-queening timing? What are the prospects for the hive? 

As a side note, the bees are also now congregating near the area where the original queen was pinched. Do they think she's still there, or are they interpreting the pheromones to discover she's dead?


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

The original bees will adapt.
Make sure they have food available, either natural flow, or syrup & pollen sub.
Interesting comment about where the old queen was mashed.cre-inforces the "queen juice" as swarm lure info.


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## TTP_California (Jun 11, 2016)

Yes, I was certain they'd adapt roles while they are alive, but do you think they'll actually die before they finish caring for the brood?


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

When bees die off, it is usually a dwindling thing, some would still be there. Plus , I think, those bees converting back to nurse duty would probably live longer than field bees.... probably.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

TTP; Were you feeding the nuc before you tried to requeen?


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## TTP_California (Jun 11, 2016)

I gave them 2:1 sugar syrup in the very beginning, but they didn't touch it, and ants were invading, so I removed the syrup. They had a full frame (front and back) of honey, which they have been eating (there's about 50% left at this point). They've also added more nectar and pollen around where the brood *should* be. But there is no brood... 

What do you think?


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

Queenless and broodless bees live long lives. Way longer than bees raising brood. I have seen a couple of three month old queenless hives that had not had a queen or brood other than a few drones from laying workers for the whole period. Those hives did just fine when given a frame of brood to feed. Your bees are not even getting into old age yet. Such long term brood less bees typically will not raise a queen from the first frame of brood they are given. It must take a bit of practice to make royal jelly in the quantity needed to make a queen. Such a long term queenless colony generally needs a frame of eggs and open brood weekly for three weeks before they will raise a queen. But, just feeding out workers does not seem to be any problem at all for them.


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## TTP_California (Jun 11, 2016)

Thank you! This makes me feel better. Now that I've replaced the failing queen, I hope they'll accept the new queen and survive long enough to raise new brood and bees.


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

And, dont buy from that person ever again. Hope you called them back and gave them earfull. And tell all your beek friends not to buy from that person too. Its only takes 8 days for them to cap brood. What kinda nuc would have "all open brood" ?


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## TTP_California (Jun 11, 2016)

Update!

Good news: I checked the hive yesterday, and released the queen who was wonderfully accepted. I also heard queen piping for the first time! 

Bad news: the bee population had declined significantly (less than one frame of bees left!), ants had invaded, and I had a wax moth attack. My poor hive!

I put my hive stand legs in containers with water to deter the ants, and I removed the two frames that had wax moth paths in them. I think my hive is a goner, though, with so few bees left. I can't believe I got such a bad nuc and original queen!

When do newly released queens usually start laying? I'm worried there aren't enough bees left to care for brood. I'm going to buy another nuc (from someone else, obviously) to supplement my poor hive. 

Any other advice?


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## Titus_TN (Jun 13, 2016)

TTP_California said:


> When do newly released queens usually start laying?


I don't know this from experience, but the standard bee math is that a queen hatches on day 16 and can start laying, assuming a successful nuptial flight, on about day 24.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

She's a mated queen already, she will start laying in 1-3 days.


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