# Help! Hornets....



## dhood (May 26, 2008)

*Make a trap*

i made a trap for yellowjackets using an empty milk jug. Do a search on here and you will find the exact directions. But I didn't have the things it ask for at the time, I just used an empty milk jug, cut a 3/4-1" hole on the curve at the top. Filled it 1/4way full with water and put chunks of watermelon in there. I checked it the other day, hundreds of yellowjackets, dozens of european hornets, and dozens of moths. It did seem to help. I see far less wasp,hornets ect. bothering the hives.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Nice "outside the box" tap there Dhood!

Kristos...
Try puting the cat food in a 2 liter soda bottle, or a water bottle, some kind of clear bottle with a narrow neck. Or a milk jug like Dhood did. You can cap the bottle and cut a couple holes 1" diameter a in the tapered portion of the neck of the bottle. Or use watermellon, as it worked for Dhood!

Also, what size is your hive? (how many boxes and what size)? Don't let the girls have very much empty space, they need to be crowded in order to protect their combs.


----------



## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

Would robber screens help.

I think they would. Look up robber screens and make one of those too.


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

We've been out for the day and just checked the hive. No guards again and when the entrance reducer was moved 4 hornets came out of the hive. I chased them off with the net when one of the girls came out and got me over the eye. I found the stinger in my eye brow with lots of venom in it so not so bad. We got dressed up, smoked the hive well and put a queen excluder under the brood box with no problems. The entrance reducer is back on the smallest opening of around 1.5 inches. We've got a brood box with one super on and a hive top feeder on top of that. We're coming (we hope) to the end of a bad spell where we haven't had rain since april and I'm feeding once a week with 1 kilo of sugar. I've had the hornet trap under the hive all day with cat food and concentrated orange in 2 inches of water and there's nothing in it. The hornets come boldly straight to the hive entrance and just ignore the trap. 
Any advice would be welcome. We've talked to a Greek who lost 17 hives one year to hornets (we're Brits in Crete).

Chris


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Quick fix.*

Cut a piece of 1/8" hardware cloth/screen so that you can reduce the entrance and the bees can still breath and or ventilate. I can be folded like an "L" and stapled to the hive entrance.

Good luck.
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


----------



## reneal (Sep 6, 2006)

Well, I don't know about hornets, but for yellow jackets I've had really good luck using a trap baited with a small piece of liver. I had a few empty supers I was letting the girls clean out & noticed a few yellow jackets feeding. After putting out the yellow jacket traps with liver, they were both half full within 24 hours & it was pretty much just honey bees examining the comb. I suspect if the hornets are taking bees, then they might be more interested in protein than sugar this time of year.


----------



## dhood (May 26, 2008)

reneal, that's a good idea. Everytime I use chicken liver to fish the yellow jackets are all over them. That would probaly work much better for yellowjackets. 

Kristos, what kind of hornets are they? if they are actually going in the hive, I would say they have weakened the hive and are eating bee larva. I've seen European and bald faced hornets catch bees at the entrance but never one go inside. 

Also, when I set up the trap i put it about 30 yrds. away from the hive, but in the direction that the hornets were flying. I have never seen them flying to it, but there are more in it every time i check. I would think baiting a trap and putting it under the hive would attract more pest near the hive. And, if your open feeding, you'll notice that the hornets come after the bees more often when there are alot of them flying around a feeder in the open.


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks for your ideas guys.
They're oriental hornets. I'll try to get pics today of the little b&s*£ds.
There's and interesting article here http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn12649&feedId=online-news_rss20

I'll try baiting a trap with protein but I'm not feeling too hopefull. The hornets coming straight to the hive. They know exactly where it is and what they want.


----------



## seamuswildhoney (Jul 24, 2008)

*Hornets*

Are the bigger than the bees? If so you could use a entrance reducer that is so small that the bees have a little trouble squeezing through but the hornets cannot.


----------



## seamuswildhoney (Jul 24, 2008)

*Hornets*

Are the hornets bigger than the bees? If so you could use a entrance reducer that is so small that the bees have a little trouble squeezing through but the hornets cannot.


----------



## seamuswildhoney (Jul 24, 2008)

*Hornets*

Also you could consider moving the hive a few miles away. The hornets would get trying to get home and could not find the hive. I moved a hive that was being robbed bees that had very little brood no honey, about to starve now they have two frames of brood some honey, pollen. could work


----------



## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

if this hive has had no guard bees for a while (several days if i understand correctly) my money says they are doomed. the only question i see is will they all be killed by the hornets or will they abscond? here in the states i would shake these bees out and store the comb before its shredded. good luck,mike


----------



## papa bear (Nov 1, 2005)

hey kristos, dhood is right about keeping the trap a little away from the hive. you might be attracting them to the hive and then they prefer it over the bait

would like to here more about keeping bees in Greece


----------



## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

*the problem with insect traps*



Kristos said:


> We've been out for the day and just checked the hive. No guards again and when the entrance reducer was moved 4 hornets came out of the hive. I've had the hornet trap *under* the hive all day and there's nothing in it. The hornets come boldly straight to the hive entrance and just ignore the trap.
> (we're Brits in Crete). Chris


Take the trap from under your hive! You are luring more hornets to the hive. Make more traps and disperse them around the area, but not close to the hive, especially put some in that "jungle" you mentioned. Lure the #&!% hornets away from your bees and then KILL them.

GOOD LUCK AND GOOD HUNTING


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks for your help everyone.

I had a trap under the hive for a day to see if I could get the hornets that have already found the bees. I've now got traps no closer than around 30 meters and they're baited with fish (This is a really good article and well worth a read http://www.bulletinofinsectology.org/pdfarticles/vol59-2006-135-145bacandritsos.pdf )

I've got a queen excluder on the bottom of the brood box so the hornets can't get into the hive and I've got the entrance reducer down to one bee size hole so the hornets cant get through that. I've also got an additional reducer in front of that on a bigger opening to give the girls a bit of shelter as they enter the hive. Also the bees have built a laberynth in prop on the bottom board full of bee size holes. I used to clean it off but they like it so now I leave it. Perhaps it's one of their ways of protecting the hive.The feeder is built into a shallow top box so it's not open. To fill it I just take off the top cover and pour through the inner cover hole and the girls let me do that at anytime so long as I work at the back of the hive.

I don't think overheating should be a problem. I've had the entrance reduced before when it's been 40 degrees in the shade with no problems (although not down to one hole). The hives under an oak and we're in the foothills of the mountains so there's always a breeze. It's now in the mid 20's and last night we had the first rain since April. I'm hoping that a change in the weather might turn things around.
Here in Crete the girls get off the work early and they are all usually home again by midday. Things are then quiet until late afternoon when the training flights start.


----------



## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

*feed back needed*

Kristos posted>I had a trap under the hive for a day to see if I could get the hornets that have already found the bees. I've now got traps no closer than around 30 meters and they're baited with fish (This is a really good article and well worth a read http://www.bulletinofinsectology.org...candritsos.pdf )

Kristos posted>I've got a queen excluder on the bottom of the brood box so the hornets can't get into the hive 

Kristos posted>I had a trap under the hive for a day to see if I could get the hornets that have already found the bees. I've now got traps no closer than around 30 meters and they're baited with fish (This is a really good article and well worth a read http://www.bulletinofinsectology.org...candritsos.pdf )

Kristos posted>I've got a queen excluder on the bottom of the brood box so the hornets can't get into the hive 

I enjoyed your link on trapping wasps and hornets, a very good file. I saved a copy of it on HD so I could refer to it and not have to find it again.

The excluder under the hive is a good idea in the short term as well. Please post again to let us know how the "other" women in your life are doing.
Good luck.


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm running out of ideas now (and bees). I've read all I can about oriental hornets and they seem just about unstoppable. I've got traps baited with chicken and fish and I've tried sweet traps with melon etc and I haven't caught a single hornet. There are always three or four of them around the hive and they easily pick off the bees and fly up to eat them in the trees. The 
hornets aren't at all aggressive to humans when they are away from their nest and I must have killed a couple of dozen of them at the hive. I must stop swatting at them though....... sooner or later I'll get stung. 
Anyway I've still got the queen excluder on the bottom of the hive to keep the hornets out of the brood box and it's been on for about six days. Can anyone tell me how long I can keep it there with no problems. This might be a stupid question as before long I'll have lost my bees if things carry on. Today I moved the hive. Only 50 meters away but 90 degrees to the hornets flight path. I know 50 meters isn't enough it's the only place I've got and it's the only thing I've got left to try.


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Kristos,

Sorry to hear of your problem. What we have here are these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_crabro 

These are nasty too, but usually attack a hive one at a time. This time of the year at night I can turn on my outside flood lights and attract them in and kill them with a fly swater. Got 5 last night!


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

Tomorrow I'm making an entrance reducer out of a queen excluder to stop the buggers getting under the brood box. We're only small time bee keeps with one hive and may have moved on to two at some time but this is heartbreaking. The girls have been really good and I've only had three or four stings altogether. If we lose these I'll call it a day and look after the olives and grapes.


----------



## dhood (May 26, 2008)

*Oriental Hornet? which one?*

Is this the Oriental Hornet you are talking about? AKA /Vespa orientalis
http://animalpicturesarchive.com/view.php?tid=6&did=46500&lang=kr

Or is this the Oriental Hornet you are talking about? AKA /Vespa Mandarinia
http://animalpicturesarchive.com/view.php?tid=3&did=25752&lang=kr

I just realized your in Greece, if you have hornets that we are not familiar with it would be in your best interest to contact someone nearby that keeps bees. From what I have read the Vespa Mandarinia will take down a hive pretty fast. 
Also, when I set out the traps I did not check them for a week or two, You may not have had them out long enough. Ive not seen bees in the trap until it started to stink.


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

They're orientalis and they can be a big problem here. The guy I bought the bees off lost 17 hives to them one year. They seem to be strictly insect eaters. I've had traps out till they stink and they just collect flys.


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

*Woooo Hoooo !!!*



Temperatures down to the low 20's now (centigrade ) and we've had rain and the hornets have gone............... And. I've still got the girls.

I've had a queen excluder below the brood box and queen excluder wire mesh across the entrance and fed the hive every few days. If ever there were hornets hanging around when I passed the hive I hosed them with the water hose. Oddly enough they didn't like that even during a drought and I'm sure the bees could use the water. So now the defences come down and we're back to normal. I need to make sure we've got a super strong colony ready for next years attack.


----------



## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

Are you using the traditional wide-open entrances? I always feel these are too big, and least for British colonies. I have hives on mesh floors, with permanently reduced entrances. Few wasps find them, they're easy to defend, and I often find more dead wasps than dead bees outside hives. I did have problems with one hive this year, but that was because they were finding their way through a crack into the top box. At the slightest sign of problems, I tack a piece of card across the entrance, leaving enough room for one bee to pass. This is easily chewed back if the bees want more space, but they never seem to open it right up.


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi Robert,

Like the locals I'm using Langstroth and I always keep the entrance reduced to about 4 inches. The hornets I've had problems with are Oriental hornets. I've never seen the bees despatch one, they seem too tough for the bees to sting. From what I've seen on the net the only way bees can kill them is by balling themselves around the hornet and smothering them although I've never seen it done. It's strange to see these hornets in action. It's as though the bees don't see them as a threat. The hornets hang around the entrance of the hive and the bees just ignore them while the hornets pick up the bees and fly off with them. When the weather was in the high 30's the bees would stay at home and the hornets would then go in the entrance to the hive. That's when I started using the queen excluder to keep them out. As far as humans are concerned the hornets are really easy going when they are away from the nest. I've killed countless hornets and when you miss them they don't come back to get you they just fly off.


----------



## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*hornets*

i have a tree behind my house with a hornet nest in it and i see hornets stealing my bees. I sprayed an entire can of hornet killer into that tree and figured it was done. I found hornets wrything on the ground 100yds from the tree after spraying. then recently i noticed they were using the tree again. So i sprayed another entire can into the tree. It's not killing the hive. Should i just wait until dark and staple some screening over the hornet hive entrance? It's 10-12 feet off the ground.


----------



## Kristos (Aug 28, 2008)

no experience but what I've read of the oriental hornet is that to get the nest it's a full suit job and bag it up otherwise they go for your throat. In my case it wasn't possible to find the nest due to the jungle in the surrounding land. If you can tough it out it seems the weather is a big factor.


----------

