# Not Italian. What?



## Thomassen (Jul 6, 2014)

This is a pic of the bees that I have that are descended from a swarm I caught last early June. I'm thinking it is a Russian hybrid because of the grayish stripes and dark coloring. Any thoughts?


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Carniolan/Italian cross from the looks of them. I have several here in my yard producing those. Russians are somewhat like those though as they are a mix of the two as well. lol So really could be either one. If they are russians they winter with less stores and a small cluster. And won't brood up without both syrup/nectar and pollen/sub. Carniolans will brood up with either coming in, russians require both.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Mutts! (And the best kind of bees, IMO.) Locally mated queen and raised in the climate.

All my bees are from swarms that came to my farm (or their daughters), so I am partial. Tough little bugs - tough enough to survive my clueless attempts to care for them my first summer. Survived long-enough to _teach_ me how to handle them. (They concluded I was a very slow learner, but chose to have patience.)

I was very interested in my first summer to discover what the different patterns and markings might mean. Now I think they mean next to nothing unless we're talking bright yellow Italian being compared to a dark striped carniolian. Beez is beez, and if they are sweet and productive, I am happy. That most of them are also impossibly charming little creatures is an unexpected delight.


Enj.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If those are the Russian mutts then I have a few
boxes full of them here. Afraid they might mixed in with the
carnis too. It is really hard to tell them apart by the color bands.
I have the Cordovan which is easier to tell by their color. Once everything
is mutted up they are just bees to me. Diversity makes the hive stronger!


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

The look like pure bred American Hybrids. The most common honey bee in America. Half a century ago I imported Pure Italian bees. They superseded their queen who in turn went out to be bred by my neighbor's to the west Russian drones. Some of the fellow's to the south Carniolans got in on the act. As well as some bees a friend brought in bees from Hungry. Subsequent supersedure using this careful genetic grooming process have produces what most bees in the U.S. are today. The American Hybrid! Even in cases of breeders flooding an area with their own stock it is imposable to maintain pure genetics in open bred bees. One queen made from the larva of an egg fertilized by an outside bee reduces subsequent offspring from that queen by 50% Her offspring resulting from being bred by an outside drone then carry only 25% of the original genetics. In just two generations. When you buy bees in the U.S. today, Unless they are artificially inseminated for generations. You are buying traits not genetics.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Thomassen said:


> Any thoughts?


From their appearance, they could be mutts, largely Carniolan, or largely Russian. Look for whether they are particularly swarmy and whether they winter with very few bees and build up quickly. If they are highly productive, disease resistant, and mild natured, then I think they are mine and you should return them, or at least send me a couple of queens.


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## Thomassen (Jul 6, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies. Here is a picture of a drone from the same hive. Abdomen is all dark-black with almost gold stripes. The hive stayed small after catching it last early June. So small, there were never any drones laid until this last February. The hive exploded with growth in February due to unseasonably warm weather (60s-low 70s). I tried to head off a swarm by splitting, to no avail. The hive swarmed anyway, four times last week. I recovered three. Sorry David, They're mine!


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Mutts.I've got all sorts of different colored bees and some like that. Many different colors even in the same hive. All of them caught swarms.


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