# A New Way to Kill SHB



## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

I lost a large cutout to SHB . Again. 
I pulled a couple of frames this AM and the **** things were in the comb. I decided to try a new approach to getting rid of them and stuck the comb in a large plastic bag. I took a Propane torch and filled the bag with Propane gas and sealed the bag. About two hours later the beetles were still crawling around just as happy as they could be.
Since Propane is a little hazardous to handle I thought, Why not try carbon monoxide? So I took the bag and started up the van. I pushed all the air out of the bag and stuck it over the tailpipe and filled it up, sealed it and thought "Die you suckers".
It did not work the away I thought it would. BUT IT DID WORK.
Almost immediately the larva came out of the cavities of the comb and started crawling around and the beetles went bananas also. Where I thought there would be 30 or 40 beetle at the most, there were over a 100 and the larva were five times that. What a mess.
Four hours later the beetles started to die. That is not a misprint , 4 hours in 100% carbon monoxide. At six hours the beetles were dead and the larva were starting to die. At eight + hours the last of the larva quit moving.
WHAT I DON'T KNOW is the effect on uncapped brood. Capped brood and honey could be brushed off and then would be ready to return to the hive so the bees could clean them up.
If you have beetles (and everybody does) a large, strong hive can control the beetles but if you only have one colony and it swarms of the queen gets old, the beetles will overrun the hive is a couple of days. So you could take every other frame out of a box, brush off all the bees and put it in a plastic bag (Hefty bags seal tighter than ziplock ones)and gas the whole frame overnight. The next day take out the remaining frames and replace the clean ones. 
The carbon monoxide dissipates as soon as you open the bag so nothing goes into the hive. There is no pesticide involved and the bees will clean up any debris that you don't knock off the comb. 
It's also cheap. It just takes time for the sucker to die. They are very hard to kill.
If someone tries it, please post the results.
regards
Joe


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## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

An interesting idea but unfortunatley the exhaust fumes from a vehicle are not 100% carbon monoxide although it is a component. According to wikipedia the exhaust ranges from Nitorous Oxide, Ozone, Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide, Particulate Matter and various volatile organic compounds. Remembering my High School chemistry it woud be primarily the volatile organic compounds I would worry about these are from alcohols, to benzene, to many other toxic compounds. If you had a source of pure Carbon Monoxide it might be good to battle SHB but I wouldn't want the other stuff in my wax. Good luck with it.

Tim Goodin


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

what about sealing em up with some dry ice? as it "melts" it would release all of the CO2 and that should kill em all and the CO2 wouldnt hurt the wax. Ohh CO2 = carbon dioxide


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

Jaseemtp said:


> what about sealing em up with some dry ice? as it "melts" it would release all of the CO2 and that should kill em all and the CO2 wouldnt hurt the wax. Ohh CO2 = carbon dioxide


Seems the co2 would do the job too. might take longer, but if they can't breath...


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

I think some gas is a great idea as long as you don't kill yourself.
I would think capped brood and uncapped brood would also be effected.
They are capped but the caps are O2 permiable or the larva would die.

Car exhaust seems like a bad idea but CO2 seems like it could work.
Then bee keepers could be blamed for all the global warming.


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## New Ky Beekeeper (Jun 27, 2011)

If you want an easy out-of-the-box idea, here is mine: Place each frame in an unused box (or the whole hive with no bottom) and put the box in the middle of ashphalt. I would put a couple of unused boxes below it also. This would allow two things to happen. 1: The emerging bees would just be growing and they stay on the frame. The SHB have to drop to the ashphalt and since they need to make it into the ground instead of hot ashphalt..... They die.... In one month, all you SHB should be gone.... 

Just thinking way out of the box..... Way out.... 

Good luck, Phil


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## New Ky Beekeeper (Jun 27, 2011)

Since SHB have now become a problem for me also, here is my plan: (note: All of my hives are on 2 -4x4", 12' long horizontal post held off the ground 18" by 6x6" post 3' in the ground) I have applied Round Up (at night) under and around all my hives (its doing a great job). I have saved bags from cattle mineral. These bags are a very sturdy plastic, fiber bag. I will be cutting them so they make a flat rectangle and placing them on the scorched earth below the hives. I will place creek rock and mineral salt (cattle mineral) on the bags. The SHB larva will drop on to them and since they can't make contact with the earth they crawl around and get stopped by the salt...... 

Just my idea. I have no idea if this will work. 
Phil


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

salt is a killer for most crawling larva. Think slugs and salt.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

C02 would work well, its very fast in knocking out insects, not sure how long it would take for them to die though.


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## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

JRBEES
I dumped a bunch of the larva in a salt bath to see what happened. Fifteen minutes later they were still crawling around on the bottom of the pan.
One thing I have found is that if you put a frame in a bag and push the air out, take a Propane torch and blow the the bag full of Propane and seal it, then the beetles will come crawling out of hiding and can be shaken to the bottom of the bag and squished.
The larva will also come to the surface if there are any in the comb. I have not found a way to kill 100% of them in a short time. But I have not tried the CO2 either.


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## Blackwater Bees (May 7, 2012)

I've cleaned up a couple SHB dead outs lately, last one was yesterday. Put each frame over a metal bucket in the sun, in a couple of minutes the adult SHB and larvae will try to crawl to the other side, brush them in bucket as they migrate. Repeat for other side. Pour in a couple of ounces of your favorite flammable liquid, Drop lit match in bucket. Put frames in deep freezer x 48 hours to complete the kill of stray larvae/eggs. Put back in a strong hive to clean them up. Hive body crevices get flamed with torch, whole area get permathrin granules if not already done.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I would go for the dry ice. At least there you don't have the exhaust byproducts that cause cancer etc. You don't load up your comb with toxins and possible heavy metals too.


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## peter50 (Sep 26, 2012)

That is really an awesome creativity. I really love to this work and must impose for doing well mine job. This is the way to expose your ideas, sound to be a fantasy and looks like the mystery.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Besides the similarity of the two insects, honey bee and small hive beetle, everything put into a hive can get in the honey. While being creative also think "would I put this in my dinner?"


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

You could put the whole frame in a vaccu-seal bag and suck out all of the air. The bad part is that the SHB would remain in the comb and you would be denied the entertainment...


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

what about co2 cartridges for pellet guns? Could get a " cracker" http://www.amazon.com/Nitrous-Oxide...id=1349188741&sr=8-1&keywords=whip+it+cracker


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Phil, the salt would probably work, i've been using wood ashes from my shop stove (it has lye in it) and the weeds don't grow in it, so i don't use round up.


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## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

Try DE ( diatematoues earth ). You can buy it at almost any feed store. Make sure it is food/feed grade, as there is a grade used in pool filters. Don't use that, won't work. This is all I have been using for 6 years and I only average seeing 5 or 6 SHB a season, most entombed in propolis by the girls. Easy to use, just dust the ground under and around your hives for a distance of about 10-15 ft. I usually do at least 20 ft but that's just me. Either do it just before a rain or you have to wet the ground to soak it in. Repeat 2 or 3 times a year and it should greatly reduse or eliminate your problems. Just for safe measures I keep a few traps around just in case. Check out dixiebeesupply.com for Don FBM's tip to making your own cheap, easy & very effective traps.

What DE does is kill the larvae in the ground, so once the adult female dies off, no new ones to take her place. Kills fly larvae & many other parasites in animals & humans as well. Research it for yourself, you have nothing to loose but SHB's. :banana: BTW, DE cost me $50.00 for a 50lb bag, last all year with some left over. I currently have 15 hives & I use more DE than is necessary, I HATE SHB.

Hope this helps


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## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

Reading a back issue of Bee Culture, I ran across an article about keeping SHB out of the hive all together by putting a white semi-transparent plastic panel over the top of the hive. Used instead of the top and inner cover. Claims the beetles cant stand the light and leave. 
Go to one of the big box stores and by a panel that is used in drop ceilings and build a wooden frame that fits over the box. It would have to be taken off for winter.
Regards
Joe


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## TooFarGone (Aug 19, 2012)

jredburn

Do you recall the back issue that had the article on the translucent panels? I had not yet heard about that approach. I did hear that the beetles would not congregate under or on a plexiglass top used instead of an inner cover. If they don't like the light , there may bee enough light being absorbed from the exposed edge of the plexiglass that this is a possible explanation. I would be concerned that static electricity could accidently set off the propane in the plastic bag and really singe your hair or cause eye damage. I vote for the dry ice as a source of CO2.
Regards,
Tim


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I was reading about SHB IPM, apparently their larva are unable to successfully pupate in soil that is too dry, and possibly too hot as well. I'm guessing that is the reason I haven't seen any SHB around here. At least I certainly hope that is the case.


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## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

June 2010 page 7 Bee Culture


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## TooFarGone (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks for the reference, now I need to find a copy....


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