# Epi-pen?



## hjsmith00843 (Jan 17, 2014)

Will be setting up some packages on Friday. I am pretty sure that no one in my family is allergic to bees, but not 100 percent sure.

Should I see if their doctors will prescribe a epi-pen to have on hand just incase they do have a reaction? If so how should I ask the dr, like what info will he need?


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

Deciding you want it around is a personal decision. Packages are pretty docile. I get stung routinely and have hardly any reaction. My wife and I both have a medical background and figured we'd keep them around. I said to Dr, "I'm beekeeping and working with beehives on a regular basis, we wanted to have an epi-pen available at the house." Response, "OK here's a prescription." Used to be a coupon that saved like $100... Epi-pens aren't cheap.


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## hjsmith00843 (Jan 17, 2014)

All of my hives will be at my home. So all of my children will be around the hives. I want to be safe. I know that they have a jr model for younger kids.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Epi-pens are not without risk. A serious systemic bee sting reaction to a naive victim is very unlikely, as the body must be pre-conditioned to the allergen first. This is why children are very infrequently victims of bee allergy -- they have not been exposed sufficiently. (as opposed to, say, peanuts which children encounter daily). The dosage must match the body weight to avoid a heart stopping overdose.

Epi-pens are very heat sensitive, and have expiration dates.

Keeping liquid anti-histamine (Childrens Benadryl is a good choice) will serve better as a non-dangerous first aid. Asthma is a risk factor for airway blockage in bee allergy -- if someone has a history of asthma, I would recommend a allergen test be conducted prior to hive installation.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

EpiPen is used to treat life threatening allergic reactions only (termed Anaphylaxis). This could be caused by insect stings, food, medications or even contact with latex. I guess you could argue that everyone would be better off carrying one around but usually it's use is reserved to people with a history of severe reaction. If you are to use it properly you would need to be familiar with the signs of anaphylaxis such as a rash covering the body and swelling of the lips and mouth followed by difficulty breathing. Beestings will only cause this reaction very rarely, but if it occurs it would be considered life threatening. Here's an excerpt from EpiPen's website.

What Is a Life-Threatening Allergic Reaction (Anaphylaxis)?

Anaphylaxis is a life-threatening allergic reaction that can occur quickly (as fast as within a couple of minutes). Symptoms of anaphylaxis vary, but can include hives, itching, flushing, and swelling of the lips, tongue, and roof of the mouth. The airway is often affected, resulting in tightness of the throat, chest tightness and difficulty breathing. These reactions can also be accompanied by chest pain, low blood pressure, dizziness and headaches.

EpiPens are for people over 66 lbs. and EpiPen Jr, is for people 33 to 66 Lbs.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

JWChesnut said:


> Epi-pens are not without risk. A serious systemic bee sting reaction to a naive victim is very unlikely, as the body must be pre-conditioned to the allergen first. This is why children are very infrequently victims of bee allergy -- they have not been exposed sufficiently. (as opposed to, say, peanuts which children encounter daily). The dosage must match the body weight to avoid a heart stopping overdose.
> 
> Epi-pens are very heat sensitive, and have expiration dates.
> 
> Keeping liquid anti-histamine (Childrens Benadryl is a good choice) will serve better as a non-dangerous first aid. Asthma is a risk factor for airway blockage in bee allergy -- if someone has a history of asthma, I would recommend a allergen test be conducted prior to hive installation.



Epi-pens are obviously to be reserved for anaphylactic shock, for which, without being a doctor, I'm pretty sure benadryl will not help in the least.

As they can mean the difference between life and death, I really don't see a valid reason not to have one, despite the cost, hassle of getting the prescription, and unlikeliness to need it.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

When I told my doctor that I started beekeeping, he gave me a script for Epi Pens for the whole family. I'd rather have them and never need them than to not have them


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

My doctor would not give me a prescription for an epi-pen. After two trips to the Emergency Room in one week for sting reactions, I now have epi-pens!


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Also should know that using an Epi pen is not the end of it. if someone is having a reaction that needs it then they need to get to the Dr soon after for follow up treatment.


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## Ray4852 (May 27, 2011)

See an allergy doctor first to see if you are allergic to honeybees. Simple blood test will tell if you are allergic. Epi pens are very expensive. If you are allergic its cheaper to get the shots.


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

there is another vendor you can find online by googling auvi-q -- theirs is more an auto-injector, and I think comes in either child or adult dosing.
They may have an online coupon (I know they did last year).
I have an epipen coupon and intend to get new epipens this season.

As pointed out above and in the literature, most of us have extremely low risk for anaphalaxis from honey bee (or wasp) stings.
However, once you need the epipen, it is too late to call for prescription.

Store it properly and have it at a place that everyone knows where it is and how to use it -- and yes, used improperly it can give you a fatal heart attack. In my case, one pen is in my medicine cabinet, second shelf, visible in a clear zip lock bag. The other goes with me to the beeyard in a zip lock bag on the front seat of my vehicle (in hot weather, in a small cooler that has a cup or two of ice water).


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## BooneCtyBeek (Jun 20, 2011)

I was to the ER twice as well. Nothing like having a half dozen young girls pulling your clothes off; except hearing "his blood pressure is crashing." Was careless and forgot my epi both times. I am more careful now. Would hate to have my bee partner drive a corpse home. Might be pretty traumatic to him and my wife.

And it is correct, if you need your epi, you'll still need to get to the ER pronto.

I am getting allergy shots now. Almost to the maintenance dose of 1.0. Had a bad reaction in the doctor's office at 0.7. Had to call the ambulance and drag my half dead carcass out on a stretcher. Told the doctor this scene is probably bad for business. 

Came back the next week, though. Told the nurse, "Dead man walking." She didn't appreciate my sense of humor.


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## hjsmith00843 (Jan 17, 2014)

I will contact the VA and see if they will give me a few to keep on hand. I don't have to pay for medical supplies.


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## Ray4852 (May 27, 2011)

I get the bee shoots too. I wont renew my epi pen when my pen expires. Bee shoots are better. One visit to the emergency room is enough for me.


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

Ray4852 said:


> I get the bee shoots too. I wont renew my epi pen when my pen expires. Bee shoots are better. One visit to the emergency room is enough for me.


I hate to sound like a total newb, which I am, What is a bee shot?!


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## BeeRN (Apr 1, 2013)

Dominic said:


> Epi-pens are obviously to be reserved for anaphylactic shock, for which, without being a doctor, I'm pretty sure benadryl will not help in the least.
> 
> As they can mean the difference between life and death, I really don't see a valid reason not to have one, despite the cost, hassle of getting the prescription, and unlikeliness to need it.


Exactly!
Epi pen is what you use to keep you alive long enough to make it to the ER.


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## Widdy (Jan 12, 2012)

Something to remember that they are a prescription item and are only good for the person they are written for. It's a ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't scenario. If you give it or use it on someone you could be held legally liable to anything that happens to them. Is almost the same as sharing prescription pain killers.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

"Beeshots" are small doses of bee venom that are administered frequently (once or twice weekly) in increasing doses for a period of time. This serves to increase the level of antibodies such as IgG which do not respond with the severe allergic reaction that the original IgE antibodies do. The IgG antibodies attach to the bee venom allergen and this keeps it away from the IgE antibodies which cause the anaphylactic reaction.


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## Ray4852 (May 27, 2011)

The bee shot program works like this. You need a blood test first to see if you are allergic to honeybees. The first 6 weeks I got 3 shots per week. After the 6 weeks, I get one shot every 4 weeks for a year. My second year. I get a shot every 2 months for a year. My 3rd year I get tested to see if I’m still allergic to bees. If I pass the test I’m 97 percent protected from getting an allergic reaction again. If I fail the test I continue to get the shots for 2 more years. This usually is enough to get you to pass the blood test. Insurance pays for most of it. The program is working for me. I have been stung many times with the shoots in the hands and legs. no reaction. The area that is very sensitive is my face. Any bee sting to the face is severe. Its very important to protect your upper part of body for bee stings. Anybody can get a severe reaction. All it takes is one toxic bee and you will end up in the hospital. Play it safe. Protect yourself when you deal with nature. You don’t have to give up your bees. Like I said epi pens are very expansive. A lot of beekeepers don’t know how to use them the right way. You only need it if your throat is swelling up. You will know when you need it. Take two shots right away and get to the hospital.


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## Bee-52 (Mar 18, 2014)

Widdy said:


> If you give it or use it on someone you could be held legally liable to anything that happens to them. Is almost the same as sharing prescription pain killers.


We had a sign up for a red cross epi pen class at our local bee class. After that class you are eligible to administer epinephrine to others. I'm pretty sure good Samaritan law covers you in this case.

At the same class we've been told that one epi pen lasts about 15 min, so it is to keep you breathing until paramedics get there.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

Ray4852 said:


> See an allergy doctor first to see if you are allergic to honeybees. Simple blood test will tell if you are allergic. Epi pens are very expensive. If you are allergic its cheaper to get the shots.


Very much this. Unless you've got really good insurance, epi-pens are way more expensive than you think, and they can have fairly short shelf lives (they only last about a year when brand new, and there's no telling how long the one you are about to pick up has been sitting on the shelf until you check the expiration date on it).

I basically took one look at what I'd have to pay for one and went "Ha ha ha no."


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

JWChesnut said:


> Keeping liquid anti-histamine (Childrens Benadryl is a good choice) will serve better as a non-dangerous first aid.


x 2


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

I got my prescription on paper and am "shopping" for expiration date as well as price (and of course insurance and the coupon will help). So far I have Sept 2015 so will be for 2 seasons.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

Edymnion said:


> Very much this. Unless you've got really good insurance, epi-pens are way more expensive than you think, and they can have fairly short shelf lives (they only last about a year when brand new, and there's no telling how long the one you are about to pick up has been sitting on the shelf until you check the expiration date on it).
> 
> I basically took one look at what I'd have to pay for one and went "Ha ha ha no."


The two-pack I got cost about $30 with this coupon: https://activatemysavings.com/epipen/ While they expire in about a year, kept in proper conditions, they remain good for several years after the expiration date and have an indicator on the side when they are "too old". 

An Epi-pen and antihistamines are used under distinctly different circumstances.


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## Bill91143 (Jun 7, 2013)

I told my Dr. that I was raising bees and he said I am going to give you a prescription for an epi-pen. I told him I have almost no reaction when I'm stung. He said I should have the pen anyway. He said, you could get stung one day and have no reaction and then the very next sting you could go into anaphylactic shock. His suggestion is everyone who handles bees should have an epi-pen available even if they have never had a reaction to stings before.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm not so worried about myself and my reactions, but with a 2yr old son, I thought it worth mentioning to the pediatrician that i have bees. He wrote the prescription and I got the epi-pen juniors. I think them to be a waste of money, but i feel the same about fire extinguishers and insurance, and I keep that stuff up to date. I can get another $100 a lot easier than i can get another son, so I guess i consider it money well wasted. Perhaps if my son was more trouble, or less obedient, I'd have a different position...j/k


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

ChuckReburn said:


> The two-pack I got cost about $30 with this coupon: https://activatemysavings.com/epipen/ While they expire in about a year, kept in proper conditions, they remain good for several years after the expiration date and have an indicator on the side when they are "too old".
> 
> An Epi-pen and antihistamines are used under distinctly different circumstances.


Thanks for this link, Chuck!!


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Bee-52 said:


> We had a sign up for a red cross epi pen class at our local bee class. After that class you are eligible to administer epinephrine to others. I'm pretty sure good Samaritan law covers you in this case.
> 
> At the same class we've been told that one epi pen lasts about 15 min, so it is to keep you breathing until paramedics get there.


Legislation on this will vary from one place to another. In Canada, you can't be sued for trying to save someone, unless you do something really really stupid.

As for the bee shot, well, 1) it doesn't help in case of anaphylactic shock, 2) it only affects you, and 3) when I tried to get an allergy test, I couldn't get one because I had never been stung and thus could not have produced the antibodies.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

D Semple said:


> x 2


Benadryl and Epi-pens are two very different products for two very different problems. Epi-pens aren't meant for minor allergic reactions, they are intended for those in anaphylactic shock only (so that they survive long enough to get to the hospital), just as Benadryl isn't intended for those in anaphylactic shock and is only there to soothe minor reactions. Neither product can substitute the other in any situation whatsoever.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Epi-pens are more dangerous than bees...

http://not.gothic.net.au/pic/other/ebay/Epipen1.pdf
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090223182634AAb2fQr
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080930040815AAhfaGj
http://www.ask.com/question/what-would-happen-if-you-used-an-epipen-when-not-having-a-reaction
http://www.epipen.ca/local/en/pdf/prescribinginformation.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/...etterstoPharmaceuticalCompanies/UCM306109.pdf


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Let's keep this in perspective, any drug if misused can cause unacceptable outcomes. In the US with a population of around 300 million there are a little over 50 deaths per year due to beestings and the incidence of beesting allergy is about 0.4% of the population. Dangerous side effects are limited to changes in the rhythm of the heart or heart attack which is mainly restricted to the people over the age of 65 or 70. If you are having a severe reaction EpiPen can save your life, if used indiscriminately it could harm or kill you.


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## BeeRN (Apr 1, 2013)

Bottom line -
if you need it and dont have it, you will die. 
if it is not a life threatening reaction, you dont need it.
if you use it when you dont need it, it has the potential to kill you. but not likely.

Educate yourself on knowing when to use it.


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## doug reed (Feb 1, 2014)

What exactly is very expensive. Not many figures mentioned here.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

$90


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

My Pharmacy only had the two-packs and it was $250.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I don't think anyone has mentioned that there are generic versions available. I had the coupon that someone mentioned, but my doctor wrote the script for generic. I got 2 pens for a total of $15. The paperwork said they were $259, but insurance covered all but the $15 copay.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

ruthiesbees said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned that there are generic versions available. I had the coupon that someone mentioned, but my doctor wrote the script for generic. I got 2 pens for a total of $15. The paperwork said they were $259, but insurance covered all but the $15 copay.


Which is why I mentioned earlier "unless you've got very good insurance" that they're very expensive. If you don't have good insurance and are having to pay the whole thing out of pocket, you're likely looking at about $100 per pen, and you'll likely have to replace it every year.


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