# State apiarist says oxalic is about to be approved.



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

I haven't heard that yet, but I sure do hope that it does go that way. Did she happen to give any additional info?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I would expect that if the legal status of oxalic acid was to change to a "registered pesticide" labeled for varroa control, there would be some kind of indication in the Federal Register.

Looking there for "oxalic" offers lots of recent listings involving oxalic as an _explosive_, but nothing apparent from the perspective of a pesticide since 2010.


----------



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

perhaps an exemption granted at the state level?


----------



## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

I believe she was referring to fed level but I could be mistaken. I did ask her what the approved treatment method might be. She said there was a company prepared to offer a product thru one of the big suppliers. That sounds like a dribble method product to me. After all if vapor was approved we wouldn't need a supplier. We don't really need a dribble product either.


----------



## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I heard the same that it will be approved at the Federal level soon. Let's hope approving the obvious won't be too much work.


----------



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

BigGun said:


> I believe she was referring to fed level but I could be mistaken. I did ask her what the approved treatment method might be. She said there was a company prepared to offer a product thru one of the big suppliers. That sounds like a dribble method product to me. After all if vapor was approved we wouldn't need a supplier. We don't really need a dribble product either.


One of the things that always slows down the products getting registered is there has to be a company willing to take on the product to get it licensed and through the Fed level stuff. I could see where one of he MAJOR hurdles is getting the propper "dosage" down. For that reason alone i could see them selling a dribble type application, and a mylar package containing enough for vaporization of a standard double deep. Which way is going to be more proffitable for the company is for sure going to be the one that is more controlable by the company. So i'd say it'll probably end up being the dribble method if any at all.


----------



## Mountain Man (Aug 26, 2013)

Its just nice to finally have a state apiarist who cares and returns calls, emails and gets out there, I applaud her!


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

If it does get approved, I expect the price will be going way up high, so that it costs $4 + to treat each hive.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

squarepeg said:


> perhaps an exemption granted at the state level?


Exemption for what? It isn't registered as a Pesticide. An exemption from who? The EPA? Again, the EPA does not regulate OA as a Pesticide, so there would be no reason for them to grant an exemption from a restriction on a pesticide that they don't recognize.

Or am I seeing this wrong?


----------



## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

RayMarler said:


> If it does get approved, I expect the price will be going way up high, so that it costs $4 + to treat each hive.


Yoy got that exactly right.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

There is a method whereby a state can get a "Pesticide Emergency Exemption" IF the EPA allows it. More here: 
http://www2.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/pesticide-emergency-exemptions

Note the part about EPA having to establish tolerances for agricultural products. That doesn't seem likely to be a _speedy_ process for the EPA. Also note the part that says "but _no _pesticides are currently registered for that situation." Since there are already registered varroa controls, that might be somewhat difficult to claim.:shhhh:

The Section 18 emergency process was used to get Apivar approved in certain/select states before it was approved nationwide, so there is precedent, but .....


----------



## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Mountain Man said:


> Its just nice to finally have a state apiarist who cares and returns calls, emails and gets out there, I applaud her!


Tammy is a go getter and knowledgeable. Our state apiarist before her was a political hire and knew as much about bees as i know about working on a airplane engine. When hired it was stated he had ran a 900 hive operation......and he did for less than a year....managed to kill and or let starve 840 leaving 60 alive in 6 months.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> The Section 18 emergency process was used to get Apivar approved in certain/select states before it was approved nationwide, so there is precedent, but .....


For products developed and tested for use as a pesticide. Who has done this for OA?


----------



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> For products developed and tested for use as a pesticide. Who has done this for OA?


Mark, That question can be answered, but it all depends upon if the EPA will allow European results. They've been using OA in both ways Dribble, and OAV for years over there.


----------



## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

Will they allow Canadian studies?


----------



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

RayMarler said:


> If it does get approved, I expect the price will be going way up high, so that it costs $4 + to treat each hive.


Not out of the end of my squirt gun will it run in that range.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Just don't be surprised if the cost of reloading that squirt gun goes much higher than it is today.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

If I remember correctly about 4 years ago, the American honey producers were working to get it approve, I haven't heard a word since and had just checked their web site a few weeks ago and nothing listed. will check again if I can remember my password


----------



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

RayMarler said:


> Just don't be surprised if the cost of reloading that squirt gun goes much higher than it is today.


When I can snag another 50+ lb. bag of OA at the local chem supply for under 100 bucks I doubt the cost to bleach frames is going to rise substantially?


----------



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

BigGun said:


> State apiarist was at our last bee club meeting. She stated that oxalic acid was due to be approved and available this spring. Anyone have any additional info?


I bet the price will go up. Better stock up now.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

drlonzo said:


> Mark, That question can be answered, but it all depends upon if the EPA will allow European results. They've been using OA in both ways Dribble, and OAV for years over there.


As we have here too. OA is available for use already. You can find it at almost every lumber or hardware store you shop. It isn't regulated as a pesticide and you don't want it regulated as a pesticide because not only will the price rise only specific forms and formulations will be legal to use. It isn't illegal at the moment. Do you want that trade?


----------



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> Do you want that trade?


Not I.. I'd rather bleach my frames without worry myself.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

This is what happened to formic acid and Amitraz. Other branches of agriculture are allowed to mix and use their own pesticide applications, but not beekeepers.


----------



## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> As we have here too. OA is available for use already. You can find it at almost every lumber or hardware store you shop. It isn't regulated as a pesticide and you don't want it regulated as a pesticide because not only will the price rise only specific forms and formulations will be legal to use. It isn't illegal at the moment. Do you want that trade?


Exactly.


----------



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

So it would seem the wiser thing to do is actually "bleach your frames" in silence and pray for NON-EPA registration in this case. Thereby keeping prices low on the product and keeping the "BEE Police" in check. Makes sense to me.


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Regardless of whether OA gets registered or exempted or approved or whatever, you will still be able to buy 12oz of the white powder form of OA sold as wood bleach for less than $10 at the hardware store.

http://www.amazon.com/Savogran-1050...F8&qid=1418652341&sr=8-4&keywords=wood+bleach


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

But at the moment using OA in either of the forms is not covered by any pesticide registration. It seems to me that if one method is approved and the other isn't, then the situation changes.

For instance, if OA for dribbling becomes the "approved" method, then I think those of us who use OA _vaporization_ will be on thinner ice than we are presently. Because off-label, off-method usage of a registered product is probably a worse violation than using a non-registered substance.

Of the two forms, I would imagine dribbling could be approved more easily because there is far less risk to human (the operator, primarily) health. Substances and methods that require breathing protection for the operators tend to wind up approved for use only by certified pesticide applicators. That would bring another whole layer of regulation. 

Not that I'm complaining about rules that protect agricultural workers from dangerous exposures to pesticides on the job. I am my own pesticide applicator so you can bet I've protected myself to the max, even though the proper mask and goggles cost about $100. But apiary workers may be more vulnerable if their employer doesn't want to spend the money on protective gear for them.

I am mostly hoping any registration of OA results in a pure, constant strength product and well-researched, standardized protocols for its safe and effective use. Right now I think there is a worrisome amount of DIY folk wisdom out there about how to use OA.

Enj.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> She stated that oxalic acid was due to be approved...

Hopefully she is correctly informed. I've been hearing this for a decade now...


----------

