# Hybrid TBH/Lang hive. Was: Bees won't move up into super, why?



## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Thanks for starting the new thread on your hybrid hive. I have been working on a design for a similar hive but using several 8 frame mediums over a TBH and a Warre` style roof. I plan to build it this winter and put it into service in the spring.

How has inspection gone with the long super? Is it heavy? When you said ~3" shorter do you mean width? That probably helps with the weight.

Did you let them fill the top bar part first and then add the super? Did they move right up?


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

It's getting heavy, it's probably going to end up close to a full deep in weight I guess. I'll know more when I take it off and scale it full in a month or two. 

The frames I modified were 1/2 depth standard lang ones, to modify them I reduced the length of the top and bottom bars by 3", so in my case while the frames still run cool-wise to the entrance, there are 14 frames across the "width" of the super. I.E. the super is wider than long, so if look at this photo: http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o720/Thomas_J_Janstrom/IMG_06171_zps6f4f8432.jpg where the bit of wood is to the right, is roughly where the entrance is below in the TBH "deep" brood chamber.

They kinda did, mainly to take care of the relocated brood and to move stores, now that there is a big flow on they have begun to draw out fresh comb, so I guess they are happy enough for now. ;-)


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Cool idea. Its amazing how many different ways we can build a hive and the bees just keep going on. You must be in a warmer place then us as our bees have just really kicked into gear but they are off and running now.

Look forward to the updates.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

Sunshine Coast, so about 1000km north I guess? About a week back they started doing huge orientation flights, not like the 100 or so per day as all through winter, but a couple 1000/day and now the nectar is literally flying in (pun intended).....

Might have a look see this weekend if time and weather permits, been a few days since my last peek.


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Yep, you are a few weeks ahead of us.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

Yep, fingers crossed you get as good or better a flow as I'm enjoying


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Gum trees are just starting to flower so its on for the season.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

Excellent! I know they are busy in the super, I tapped yesterday and the roar was there as well as the TBH deep.....


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

I'm going to have to split this hive soon as they have started queen cups and as congested as the brood area has gotten, amazing the difference a week makes, it won't be long and they will swarm. My other TBH isn't far off this point either, but still has about 5 blank bars I can slot in over the coming weeks, but they are drawing comb like mad so that might not hold them long anyway..... Good thing I have three hives to go into (lang deeps, I know I know)......


----------



## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Have they filled out their super? Or have they just decided swarming is the way to ease crowding? Can you move any combs out to ease the overcrowding in the brood nest before those cups become cells?

I did a split this summer into a Lang nuc and didn't like it as well as my TBHs but to each their own. The queen didn't make it back from mating and it went laying worker before my purchased queens arrived so I ended up just shaking it out and putting up the equipment. I was glad to not have to deal with it anymore although I did see some benefits of the hive style which is why I am contemplating making a hybrid.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

I did some rearranging yesterday, so I hope it staves things off for a bit. The super is filling out well, though they seem to be repurposing the three spare bars I put in there (had nowhere else to put them) the wax is being reused to build new comb in the frames. So I might have to take them out soon and replace them with a couple pulled from down below. 

I think the big issue is it's been a warm winter so they never really shut down at all and so the build up is going much faster than normal. This year I might just have to put up with doing splits and/or swarm recaptures.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

Had to split it today, 6 occupied queen cells, on two frames, only upside, as they had drawn all the comb to within a bee space of the hive floor (screen over plywood) they have few places to build queen cups anyway, so they all ended up in the one new nuk box..... I'll also have to build another super I think, this one is filling fast.


----------



## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Super filled already? That is a good problem to have! Sounds very encouraging! Is any of the honey capped? You could always harvest a few if they are. It will be interesting to find out if this is your best producer.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

About 1/3 capped, mostly a wide top ribbon but one or two are mostly capped so soon I can probably extract a frame or two. Or I could build another super and then leave them run till November-ish and take a whole super off.... Will need to watch this one they are working very hard!


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Chuck on another super. Sounds like your bees are super bees.

We are really taking off now. Had a quick look and there are drones in the hive so a full inspection tomorrow.


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Going by the pic, there is only a small gap for the bees to get between the TBH and the super. To work well there should be a lot more openness between them. Not sure how to engineer that. I seen one guy did it by narrowing the top bars so the bees could pass between all of them to the super.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

The gap is just on a beespace at 10mm (12-13mm with the slack between the fit of the bars) anymore and I find the comb falls in summer as there isn't enough surface area to attach the comb to on the bar. Joys of a warm climate I guess. They are filling the super fast now and no doubt about it the top entrance is making a difference (bypasses the bars altogether) now. 

Next weekend I'll be building the super, no time this weekend as I have a midterm exam to study for.....


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

So I ended up having to split this hive again as I found the new queen *and* freshly capped swarm cells...... These weren't there, not even as cups, on Sunday!

I also split my other TBH (used bought queens) into three sort of equal lots, two of which went into Langs as did the one from my hybrid hive. The super is all but full and mostly capped, so I will be very busy over the weekend building another super and frames to fill it.....


----------



## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Hello Praxis, how is your hybrid hive going these days? Honey harvests?


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi Colleen, not well at all. Due to having my final exams for my Pre-Med degree last month I missed them swarming and then (I think the swallows are to blame) going laying worker for a bit. So after I grafted in some queen cells they are now recovering and building up again, very slowly atm, but still limping along. I'll be checking them out fully this weekend as I haven't pulled the lid on this one in about 4 weeks (when I confirmed a mated queen being present). I'm hoping to see good things, we are mid flow here so fingers crossed.....

BTW next year is not going to be kind to my bees, I'll be a first year med student.....

Cheers, Thomas.


----------



## praxis178 (Dec 26, 2012)

Well full inspection completed, they are going well, about 50% of the drawn comb is now back in use and bees are beginning to occupy the super once again. Probably only for pest control at this point but I'm hopeful they should be storing honey there soon enough.

New queen is a real laying machine too, although I'm troubled to see a few "half sized" workers wandering about. They look just like regular workers, but scaled down..... Wondering if I shouldn't order one and replace her?

Cheers, Thomas.

PS my other hives; one other TBH and my three Langs are going super well, supers just went onto two of the Langs two weeks back, in one it's about full and the other it's filling fast. The third is lagging a bit being a more recent split.... The TBH gives me ~8lbs of honey every 3 weeks from three bars.


----------



## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

The size of the bee is actually determined by the size of the cell they were raised in. So I wouldn't worry about different size workers.

Sounds like they are doing well. 

Our weather hasn't been great for the main flow here. Oh well, looks like it's improving from now on though.


----------

