# Minimum temperature for top feeding?



## shughes (Jan 17, 2007)

50+ degrees should be adequate. My girls come up to the hive top feeder in the 40's if they are hungry. I usually dribble a bit of the sryup down on the frames if its warm and that encourages them to go up into the feeder quickly.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

You can leave them on even in the coldest weather if you want. The issue is how they manage the space. If you have highs in the temps you mentioned, I would guess they'll be fine. Go for it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The temperature of the SYRUP has to get up to 50 F before they will feed. If the nights are 30 and the daytime temps are 50, they will not take the syrup unless you warm it up. Adding boiling hot syrup to cold syrup can warm it quite a bit. removing and warming and replacing can work. But at this point I think you are better off with dry sugar as the syrup will add too much moisture to the hive.


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## shughes (Jan 17, 2007)

i think the reference you mentioned to temperature of syrup is the key. we have had some unseasonably cold temps of 20's in the evenings and low 40's during the day and my hive top feeders have been full of bees even though its not 50+. These are the hives that have a much larger population so I would expect their heat that is generated is keeping the syrup warm enough to consume even though its in the 40's outside compared to my nucs/singles that are not touching the syrup until 50+.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

I have always been told (by the oldtimers) that the temp. inside the hive is the same as the outside temp. that the bees only heat the inside of the cluster.:scratch: Jack


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Yes, I've seen them working the syrup when it's somewhere it can get warm from the cluster, the bees don't have to go far from the cluster even though the temps outside are below 50 F. And I've seen them not working it when it's 50 F outside because the syrup is still 40 F...

I like the shallow top feeders because they warm up more quickly and the syrup isn't as long a trip from the cluster.

The top of a hive is always warmer above the cluster than it is outside when it's cold. The temperature inside a hive is always warmer than outside, but it's true they are not attempting to heat the hive. That is just the effect of having a warm cluster of bees in the hive. The temperature in SOME places in the hive may be the same as outside, but certainly not all places...


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

MB,say's The top of the hive above the cluster is always warmer than the outside of the hive. That has always been my thought and probably a cause of some condensation problems. I have found you can learn alot from the old time beekeepers,but you don't want to question their knowledge to much, if you know what i mean. Jack


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## Dr.Wax (Apr 30, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> But at this point I think you are better off with dry sugar as the syrup will add too much moisture to the hive.


I have since read about feeding dry sugar after posting this. That does sound like the smart way to go.

How many sheets of newspaper do you put down? 

I am concerned about the newspaper collapsing and creating a sugar avalanche.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

I put one sheet, lightly spray with water, then pour on 5 pounds of sugar, lightly sprayed also. It doesn't collapse.


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## MWillard (Dec 8, 2008)

Mike Bush's comments are spot on. This fall, when the daytime temps dropped below 50 degrees, the bees stopped taking the sugar water.


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## Dr.Wax (Apr 30, 2008)

You are putting just one page of a damp newspaper down and 5 lbs. of sugar on top and it doesn't collapse?

I don't know. I find that hard to believe. 

Anyone else use more sheets and if so how many?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How many sheets of newspaper do you put down?

I use one.

>I am concerned about the newspaper collapsing and creating a sugar avalanche.

I put down the newspaper. Then about an inch of sugar. Then spray that with some water until it's a bit clumped. Then another layer of sugar. Then some more water. After that the rest of the sugar and then spray the top a bit to clump it and to get the front edge of it wet to get them eating it.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#drysugar


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## Dr.Wax (Apr 30, 2008)

Ok, I guess the sugar recrystalizes into one solid mass after wetting and supports the whole structure. I'll give it a try.


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## devdog108 (May 7, 2009)

i laid down one, spritzed it with water, then added 5 lbs of sugar, then spritzed it.....no problems so far. MCM seems to work GREAT!!!


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_I have always been told (by the oldtimers) that the temp. inside the hive is the same as the outside temp. that the bees only heat the inside of the cluster._

I have bees that will prove them wrong.

If the heat can be vented easily, the bee cluster will not heat the hive. That is true.

I have some 10 frame nucs I am overwintering as a single deep. I am using the plastic hive bodies with an open screened bottom board, with a 3/4 inch auger hole near the top of the box. I have another plastic box with no auger hole on top of the single deep, and I am feeding dry sugar in that box. I have no inner cover, and I am using a polystyrene (styrofoam) telescoping outer cover that seals well.

I have lifted the lid on 20 something degree days to check on sugar stores, only to be met by a blast of heat coming out. The bees were very active and were feeding on the sugar. There were many bees feeding all over the sugar, and not the usual bees just feeding at the edge of the sugar pile.

If you have a well insulated hive, the bees can cause large temperature changes in the hive itself which can affect hive activity.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Countryboy, i agree, but here's one for ya. Bees are a insect not a warm bodied animal, so how do they maintain inside of the cluster at 90 deg.? As you can tell i don't know to much about the biology of the bees body parts.:scratch: Jack


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## wfuavenger (Dec 11, 2009)

They become active and wiggle and crawl and flutter their wings rapidly. This uses energy and creates heat as a by-product. Just like you going for a jog, you get warm. The bees do too. But another byproduct of metabolism like this is water. It can condense on the walls and roof of the hive if you are not getting enough ventilation.


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## MSbeekeeper (Feb 18, 2009)

Whats wrong with condesation? Bees have to drink and now they dont have to go and get it.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

A couple of questions - how did you determine the bees needed feed? 2 where in the hive is the cluster (top/bottom) 

As long as the syrup is warm (and rewarmed daily), and you can put a quart feed jar directly above the cluster in the top super and I've had colonies take feed @ as low as 25-30 degrees. It is important to invert the jar and let the jar drip until vaccum is attained before you put the jar on the bees to avoid soaking them. You will need to get a couple of sprinkles on the bees to entice them in the cold but they will take feed in pretty cold temps is they are starving. Usually a long shot this time of year but give it your best and good luck!


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## wfuavenger (Dec 11, 2009)

The same thing happens to them when it is cold outside and you get hit with water, you get even more cold. If the water drips on them a lot, they cannot get dry. They will get colder than if they were dry.


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## MSbeekeeper (Feb 18, 2009)

I see your point and as a new Beek I am open to alot of stuff and was conserned with the lack of ventilation in my hives however, Bwrangler on this site did a study where he took a hive and put a sealed plexiglass top on. So he had a entrance reducer, sealed top with no holes which meant no ventilation and he noticed condensation building on the plexiglass and the bees would go up and work the water. He did this for 4 years and never had a problem with condensation killing or freezing bees. Check out his site it was informative. Every hive is different and this goeas back to ask a 100 different beeks the same question and get 100 differnt answers.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

condensation inside a hive is a given. it's being produced as long as the bees are alive and they certainly make use of it. the problem is when you have "excess" moisture. that will kill a hive. you might want to read about what is commonly called here "the mountaincamp method", or feeding dry sugar. the sugar absorbs excess moisture and creates a damp sludge of sugar that makes emergency feed for the bees if they need it and eliminates excess moisture

Dave


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## Dr.Wax (Apr 30, 2008)

Joel said:


> A couple of questions - how did you determine the bees needed feed? 2 where in the hive is the cluster (top/bottom)


All boxes are very light and with several weeks yet to go in winter I know they'll need supplemental feeding. The clusters are in the top.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Sounds like a good diagnosis and the bees are in the best place for feeding. When I tried to save starving winter colonies, I did a few back when I had just a few, that warm quart of syrup (canning jar with a lid full of bee nail holes) warmed daily got a few through. On warm days like you have coming they may take 1/2 a quart or more. On cold days alot less, just be consistent.


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## Dr.Wax (Apr 30, 2008)

Now I'm hearing that starting next week temps will reach into the upper 50s. Think I might try the top feeder with warmed syrup added. If it gets much below that I'll go with dry sugar and/or jars directly over cluster.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Bwrangler on this site did a study...

When I lived in the Panhandle of Nebraska and in Laramie Wyoming, condensation was not an issue. When I moved to a more humid environment (and Omaha/Lincoln is not that humid) it did become a wintering issue. Keep in mind that Dennis (BWrangler) is in Casper, Wyoming where the humidity is very low.


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