# Veil Observation. Your Opinion?



## summerbeegirl (Sep 10, 2011)

The yellow is harder to see through. The black is easier b/c your eyes ignore it - like wearing sunglasses. It has no color to distract you. Black absorbs light rather than reflecting it. Yellow absorbs all but the yellow spectrum, reflecting it back into the world. The ease of sight through black screen/netting is why some veils that you buy have black screen to see through and yellow netting to cinch around your neckline. I hope that makes sense...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The black will be more likely to be attacked if you have really hot bees and the yellow less. But you can see through the black better, as you have observed.


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## conifer (May 5, 2011)

Along the lines of what Michael said, when I was reading up on africanized honeybees it was recommended to use lighter coloured veils as opposed to black.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

All veils that I am aware of use black screen though the netting on top or bottom may be various colors. The "holy grail" of veils that no one has developed that I am aware of is one that uses screen that is black on the inside for ease of viewing through and white on the outside so as not to incite the bees so much. BTW I use a tulle veil that I bought a number of years ago thinking it would come in handy for occasional use, started using it and never quit, it is so much lighter and cooler than anything else I have ever used though it does take a bit to get used to the occasional wrinkle that can affect your vision. I tell others that there are only two kinds of beekeepers: Those that use a tulle veil and those that are too stubborn to try one.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Last I checked www.beeworks.com was offering black and silver veils. The silver, was for AHB areas or very hot bees. The black was for typical bees.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Jim, what brand did you buy? Do you use a conventional bee hat (pith style) with it?

. . . Ace


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I knew it! I got it from Dadant's and always keep it on a ventilated helmet. It's the type with elastic on the bottom, rarely get a bee inside and amazingly durable (believe me I have abused it for years). They are also so easy to clean up. And they are only $10. But wait theres more, order today and receive a second amazing Tulle veil absolutely free for only a small shipping and handling fee.....


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Great, I'll give it a try. I don't like stiff veils that restrict head movement. I'm in need of a new veil anyway.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Not sure but you might have to order in the next 20 minutes to get the deal. If you havent used a veil with elastic on the bottom before they are a little "funky" to get into properly but well worth it once it is on. When first using it I assumed that you would be vulnerable to stings if/when the mesh touched your face but found that it rarely happens. There are two strings that tie to a loop in the back and then pass through 2 D rings. You have to put an arm between the loop and the ring on each side and above the string so that the strings actually go under your arms (hope that is clear). The result is a nice gentle seal with the strings passing from the back of your neck under your arms and back up to the front of your neck. The only time I ever have any bee leakage is if you are wearing extra layers of bulky clothing and you don't pull it a little tighter to compensate. In that situation it is also helpful if you have someone pull it over the back of your collar for you kind of like getting a jersey pulled over your shoulder pads if you ever played football. I wouldnt recommend it for use while applying oil based paints though.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

i love the tulle veils the best part of them is that when you go from bee yard to bee yard you don't have to take it off just pull it down off the hat so it sits around your neck.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

swarm_trapper said:


> i love the tulle veils the best part of them is that when you go from bee yard to bee yard you don't have to take it off just pull it down off the hat so it sits around your neck.


Yes! Another member of the "Secret Order of the Tulle" That makes 3 that I am aware of. I have to confess that I have been in and out of mine a thousand times and I have never thought of just pulling it down off my hat. That has got to be the best labor saving idea I have ever read on here.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I use a yellow tulle veil on occasion but i dont tie it, I just stick the strings in the breast pocket of my shirt and do my thing. It's only been used 3 times, but I like the ease of use with a baseball cap. The only drawback is the bees like to hit the dark part of my hair at the back of the cap since the veil cant cover it lol


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Mine arrives Monday, so I'll give it the proper initiation into the Order.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Hopefully it still comes with directions for use and a lot of secret information including the "tulle handshake". :shhhh:


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

Hey there. I use the "hatless folding veil" and absolutely hate it. It mashes up against my face, and I can't see up while working on a ladder doing trap-outs. I have a helmet and am intrigued by the "magic of the tulle". But why are there string tops that fit around the helmet and elastic? Which wears out faster, and does the string tighten at the top at all?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I've had mine 9 months now and I'm a convert. The elastic around the neck seems excessively tight, but I've accepted that. I plan to meet up with Jim one of these days so I can perfect the tulle handshake.


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

Barry said:


> I've had mine 9 months now and I'm a convert. The elastic around the neck seems excessively tight, but I've accepted that. I plan to meet up with Jim one of these days so I can perfect the tulle handshake.


Thanks, Barry!


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

*All veils are not equal in visibility*

I have two old fashioned veils I've had for almost forty years (from Dadant and somebody else). The Dadant veil has more space between the vertical and horizontal threads....I use that one, it is a lot easier to see through. The older I get, the more important visibility is.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

*Re: All veils are not equal in visibility*

I've made my own with tule from the fabric store. You can go with green or brown, if you feel that black my be an issue with bees. Haven't had a problem yet. I use mine on a hat from Walmart's camping isle.
http://www.klamathbeekeepers.org/Beekeeping_Articles/Beekeping_Equipment/making_your_own_veil_on_a_budget.html


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: All veils are not equal in visibility*

Why is the mesh so fine on most veils? Seems to me an eighth inch mesh would be a lot easier to see through.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Barry said:


> I've had mine 9 months now and I'm a convert. The elastic around the neck seems excessively tight, but I've accepted that. I plan to meet up with Jim one of these days so I can perfect the tulle handshake.


Welcome to the cult errrr I mean club. Did you go with the Dadant or the Brushy Mountain version?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: All veils are not equal in visibility*

In a couple of the older posts in the thread there was discussion of the color of the screen material. Susie uses a non-metallic material for the screens in her Golden Bee suits and jackets. It is a black material but she has apparently figured a way to coat the outside surface with a white "paint". This picture is of the jacket before it ever saw my bee yard...there are a few spots showing black through now in the front surface of the screen (it's been used and abused since this picture and a wash wouldn't hurt it!!! )...it will need some touch-ups...shoe polish? Ed


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: All veils are not equal in visibility*

Jim, Dadant. Do you know the difference between the two? They're not made by the same manufacturer? I could use another one anyway, so I'll order one from BM and compare.


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

Barry said:


> I've had mine 9 months now and I'm a convert. The elastic around the neck seems excessively tight, but I've accepted that. I plan to meet up with Jim one of these days so I can perfect the tulle handshake.


I'm now in the Tulle club. The awesome part, too, about this veil is that you can practically wear it with any brimmed hat of your choosing (I popped it on my straw fedora just to see ... my wife thought I was nuts). I can't believe how light this thing is. Taking me a bit to get used to it, but finally, I can see when I look up and am working overhead, side to side, with no obstructions or painful mesh smashing up against my nose. I'm a convert.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Tom -

Please send your membership dues to Jim. We're saving up for a tulle convention. You'll have to know the secret handshake to get in though.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Welcome Tom!! Wear your Tulle with pride. Still working on details and a site for the big convention. Security will be a concern as I am expecting demonstrations from folding veil traditionalists. Yes its true, the secret handshake will be demonstrated only after the oath has been taken. I am working on Barry to give the keynote address on his experience with the new Brushy Mountain version.


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> Welcome Tom!! Wear your Tulle with pride. Still working on details and a site for the big convention. Security will be a concern as I am expecting demonstrations from folding veil traditionalists. Yes its true, the secret handshake will be demonstrated only after the oath has been taken. I am working on Barry to give the keynote address on his experience with the new Brushy Mountain version.


Fellas, I am truly looking forward to it (even if I hear snickers from my family as I walk out the house)! Jim, send me the membership dues particulars and the illustrated brochure on the handshake.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Being inspired by this thread I just received a tulle veil from Dadant - which did not come with directions for use. Any pointers? Like which end is up for example.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

It is far easier to demonstrate but I will do my best. The tighter elastic is for your hat (a helmet with clips to hold it is my preference). The tied loop goes in the back. First put the veil on and then put your arms through and above the string between the back loop and the D rings. After looping them around you and tying them where you wish you can customize it by cutting off any excess string that you wish. Now you can tug the back of the veil down by hooking your thumbs around the string where it passes under your arms if it didn't go over your collar properly. This type of tie is quite bee tight unless you have a lot of bulky layers on in which case you have to cinch it down pretty tightly. Welcome to the "Order of the Tulle"


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

When they come newly shipped, I don't think any of the cords are through any of the D rings, so, just to expand on the first step, rings in the front, cords down the center of your back. Bring one cord under your left armpit and through the left ring. Repeat for the right side. Now around your back and tie together in front. We don't want to get too detailed as there is a lot of secrecy in the Order of the Tulle.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

jim lyon said:


> Welcome to the "Order of the Tulle"


All hail the Loyal Order of the Tulle...

Now, when do you show me the grip?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

There seems be some very important people in this group.
http://blog.greatlookz.com/tulle-veil-that-made-a-statement-for-the-bride-of-the-century/


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Notice how they didn't show you how she tied her veil! More secrecy. :shhhh:


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

Mbeck said:


> There seems be some very important people in this group.
> http://blog.greatlookz.com/tulle-veil-that-made-a-statement-for-the-bride-of-the-century/


With my new Order of the Tulle veil, I now bow in front of my hives and say "M'Ladies" before each inspection.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

jim lyon said:


> I am working on Barry to give the keynote address on his experience with the new Brushy Mountain version.


As a primer, I give a comparison of products first. Experience between the two will come soon.









This, the Dadant tulle veil. The material is heavier and more stiff that the Mann Lake tulle. The bottom of the veil has elastic in it and is quite firm fitting. My hat doesn't have any hooks to keep the top elastic from riding up, but so far it has never slipped off during use. I plan to attach it to the hat with some wire in several places. I always have to keep adjusting it before use.









The drawstring on this veil uses two D rings on the front to loop the cords through. This pulls the front down tight against your chest. I like this design, just wish the elastic was a bit less tight. Very bee tight.









This, the Mann Lake tulle veil. Netting is very fine, light, and very flexible. Haven't used this one yet, but I think I'm going to really like this feature of being very light. The top elastic fits the helmet quite well. Don't think I'll need to wire it in place. I like the bottom drawstring that it has no elastic in it. I've worn other veils with this style drawstring around the neck. Not always bee proof (bees seem to know right where that little gap is by the ring), but a trade off I'm willing to have. I think it will seal around the neck better than other veils due to how fine and light the fabric is.









Drawstring design around the neck. My only concern for a commercial guy like you Jim, is if this netting would hold up to the rigors of your work. For the price though, you can hardly beat it.

Jim, was it you who mentioned Mann Lake economy leather gloves in a post? I ordered a pair and looks like a great value. It's very hard for me to find gloves big enough to fit my big hands. Their XL fit very well, unlike other XL's I've had that still feel tight.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Well there goes my keynote address. I have actually found the back loop on the Dadant veil to be a weak point. I have had to resew mine and replaced it with a plastic ring. One other nice feature of these veils is that you can throw them in the washing machine with your work clothes and they come out looking great.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> Hopefully it still comes with directions for use and a lot of secret information including the "tulle handshake". :shhhh:


I received a Tulle veil this week but no instructions on secret handshake or membership information. 

I also ordered one of these.
http://www.ekobeekeeping.com/bee-veils/27-black-and-white-bee-veil.html
Nice people, free shipping and fairly inexpensive. It's similar to the one I use now but I think I might like this one better.

I haven't tried either one yet so only time will tell.


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