# Dirty B......



## redmcc (Jan 30, 2003)

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=47b33838a88fcf7db1284d5f12e7d72a&oe=5AF5463C

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=47b33838a88fcf7db1284d5f12e7d72a&oe=5AF5463C


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

I think your yard needs a fence.


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

I am sorry!


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## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

His yard needs landmines. It wasn't a bear.


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## Marcin (Jun 15, 2011)

What happened to the frames?


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

My that hurts


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

BigGun said:


> His yard needs landmines. It wasn't a bear.


Is it because the boxes are not smashed?


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## couesbro (Feb 4, 2017)

Not bears.

http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/lo...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=LEEDCC


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

couesbro said:


> Not bears.
> 
> http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/lo...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=LEEDCC


Holy moly, that makes it much worse!

I am sorry brother.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

Senseless


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Bastards


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## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

The police measured foot prints in the snow? Its obvious from the pictures that the vandalism occurred before the snowfall.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

MSL= Military Simulation Laboratories 
You need those land mines (simulated LOL) I got your back


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

Buzz-kill said:


> The police measured foot prints in the snow? Its obvious from the pictures that the vandalism occurred before the snowfall.


It appears to me that the photos show that there are footprints in the snow. It would seem to me that it snowed both before and after the event, and possibly during. I would think some measurements could be taken.

That beek may have lost all his bees, but still has most, if not all the equipment. I would think that if it were set up in the spring they could attract some swarms. Packages are expensive, but buying a few per year combined with swarms and splits could get them back in business. Bees have an amazing way of multiplying.

I think all is not lost, unless they have simply given up.


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

sure is a pisser though, man, too bad the guy didn't have some cameras hidden around. My bet is kids, or someone that had it out for him. Hopefully Cops will catch the idiots.


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## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

Hops Brewster said:


> It appears to me that the photos show that there are footprints in the snow. It would seem to me that it snowed both before and after the event, and possibly during. I would think some measurements could be taken.
> 
> That beek may have lost all his bees, but still has most, if not all the equipment. I would think that if it were set up in the spring they could attract some swarms. Packages are expensive, but buying a few per year combined with swarms and splits could get them back in business. Bees have an amazing way of multiplying.
> 
> I think all is not lost, unless they have simply given up.


Yes there are footprints in the snow. But they were not made by the vandals unless the vandals turned over the boxes and then put snow on them in a manner that looked like undisturbed snow fall. They would have also been able to accomplish this without leaving any tracks in the snow around some of the boxes in the foreground.


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

There has to be suspicion as to who it was. Who vandalized to this degree just for the sake of hurting somebody? Evil actions are often justified In that persons mind by a perceived wrong doing by the victim. I would think they know this person... some how. I would imagine there is some forensic evidence, for those that know the science of it all.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Funny,you do,t see any dead bees.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Flyer Jim said:


> Funny,you do,t see any dead bees.


All the overturned boxes have a half inch of snow on them, that is more than enough to bury dead bee bodies, too.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Buzz-kill said:


> Yes there are footprints in the snow. But they were not made by the vandals unless the vandals turned over the boxes and then put snow on them in a manner that looked like undisturbed snow fall. They would have also been able to accomplish this without leaving any tracks in the snow around some of the boxes in the foreground.


Brilliant! You should be the lead investigator Sherlock.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

gruntworker said:


> There has to be suspicion as to who it was. Who vandalized to this degree just for the sake of hurting somebody? Evil actions are often justified In that persons mind by a perceived wrong doing by the victim. I would think they know this person... some how. I would imagine there is some forensic evidence, for those that know the science of it all.


I agree with this assessment. It sure seems to be personal. It looks like every beehive was knocked over. It looks like all the boxes that made up each hive were seperated from one another. It also looks like all frames were removed from all boxes. This requires a fair bit of effort. This is more than knocking hives over. The newspaper article also says that the vandals also went into their storage shed and scattered that equipment. I will say that vandal(s) was/were very thorough. They knew what to do to hurt them and they went out and did it. What a shame. 

Jean-Marc


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

I'm sorry for your loss......that's all I can say without sounding vulger & hatefull of the perps.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

lemmje said:


> All the overturned boxes have a half inch of snow on them, that is more than enough to bury dead bee bodies, too.


If I was going to tell you about all my dead bees, I would show you a picture of dead bees not turned over boxes.
On some of the facebook pages, more experienced bee keepers than I are saying this my not pass the smell test, just saying,I'll let you make up your own mind.


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

Flyer Jim said:


> If I was going to tell you about all my dead bees, I would show you a picture of dead bees not turned over boxes.
> On some of the facebook pages, more experienced bee keepers than I are saying this my not pass the smell test, just saying,I'll let you make up your own mind.


With no insurance unless there is a huge "go Fund me Effort"... Maybe I'm not picking up what you are putting down. No bees would definitely change this investigation. My life is a bit too full to get interested in this happening.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

gruntworker said:


> With no insurance unless there is a huge "go Fund me Effort"...


oh, but that's already started too...

https://www.gofundme.com/suezf-wild-hill-honey


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Flyer Jim said:


> If I was going to tell you about all my dead bees, I would show you a picture of dead bees not turned over boxes.
> On some of the facebook pages, more experienced bee keepers than I are saying this my not pass the smell test, just saying,I'll let you make up your own mind.


I am with others.You cant see bees or frames under that snow.


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## exmar (Apr 30, 2015)

They should start one of those "fund me" pages or whatever it's called. I'll contribute.


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## bee bud (Mar 15, 2016)

it looks like they did already

https://www.gofundme.com/wild-hill-honey-hive-restoration


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

snapper1d said:


> I am with others.You cant see bees or frames under that snow.


I am with others too. That said, I want to know the frames are under the snow with some dead bees before I give some money to help them.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

Sad just sad.
I watched this thread go from a personal set back to the victims being blamed or statements not believed. I work in law enforcement and I watch people turn on the victim all the time. 
We see in the news a young kid gets shot playing in the street. After a few days it's the mothers fault for allowing her kid to be a kid and go play. 
There are so many scammer's out there today that we are very syndical. But sometimes it is exactly as first stated. 
Still wondering how many posts it would have taken for the crowd to turn if they had shown dead bees under the snow. If they had there would have been someone that said that's only enough bees for a hive or two. Or even how can you find bees like that picture under snow. they must have dumped them there. 
I'm sure there will be a bit of hate for this post but those that hate were probably haters already......sad
This is a great forum for all things bees. Everyone joined to learn and help other beekeepers. Thank you for those that have and will continue to do so. Looking forward to reading your posts.
Ron Reid


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

I agree, Ron, there seems to be no trust left in the world. 

Good post.


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## vtbeeguy (Jun 10, 2016)

Article I read stated the police went as far as to fingerprint which is not done in just any kind of case. So I'm sure they're confident it's not a scam.


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

frogpondwarrior said:


> Sad just sad.
> I watched this thread go from a personal set back to the victims being blamed or statements not believed. I work in law enforcement and I watch people turn on the victim all the time.
> We see in the news a young kid gets shot playing in the street. After a few days it's the mothers fault for allowing her kid to be a kid and go play.
> There are so many scammer's out there today that we are very syndical. But sometimes it is exactly as first stated.
> ...



Missed the hate, I just saw people sharing ideas with one guy stating it smells a bit weird. The victims being blamed was an indication of the personal bias adopted by perpetrators of crimes. It is ok to voice ideas and I think everyone wants justice to be done. I want to add that I love the fact that a man in law enforcement has kept the faith. It would be much easier for you to give in to Cynasism. 

Now I do not know what happened. It is a strange act of hate that makes no sense. The situation is so strange people look for logic. Who would attack a person they do not know, have to deal with poisonous creatures, and not turn a profit. I imagine as a police officer you would have an idea how they start to build a suspect list. I am not going to judge but I would look to finished police reports prior to funneling money from my family to theirs. I'd label this last statement prudence. It is very hard to ascertain the motives of others in ignorance. I hope everyone involved gets what they need.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

gruntworker said:


> I hope everyone involved gets what they need.


And what they deserve.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

gruntworker said:


> Missed the hate, I just saw people sharing ideas with one guy stating it smells a bit weird. The victims being blamed was an indication of the personal bias adopted by perpetrators of crimes. It is ok to voice ideas and I think everyone wants justice to be done. I want to add that I love the fact that a man in law enforcement has kept the faith. It would be much easier for you to give in to Cynasism.
> 
> Now I do not know what happened. It is a strange act of hate that makes no sense. The situation is so strange people look for logic. Who would attack a person they do not know, have to deal with poisonous creatures, and not turn a profit. I imagine as a police officer you would have an idea how they start to build a suspect list. I am not going to judge but I would look to finished police reports prior to funneling money from my family to theirs. I'd label this last statement prudence. It is very hard to ascertain the motives of others in ignorance. I hope everyone involved gets what they need.


:thumbsup: I am not a police officer but have 32 years with the Canada Border Services Agency as a front line Customs Officer and have been lucky enough to also work along with US Customs and Border Protection in the Nexus program. 
My line is not as inherently dangerous as on the ground officers but it's getting there. In my particular case there is no luxury of a week, month or year to investigate. My times come in 30 to 60 second slices over and over. Are they good or bad, have a beer or a bomb visiting a mother or are they a mother. It's tough being proactive to eliminate the need for being reactive. The consequences can be grave and I have been lucky.
In my adventures I have seen both sides of the coin but still cannot get over destruction just because you can. 
Bet my wife asks me once a day why???? It's a question that goes unanswered other than to say the irrational, "if they can, they will, but may not know why"
Always liked prudence now if it could just apply to my bees. 
Hoping you all can teach me to be proactive but don't laugh at me for wearing my suit just in case. 
R2


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Flyer Jim said:


> If I was going to tell you about all my dead bees, I would show you a picture of dead bees not turned over boxes.
> On some of the facebook pages, more experienced bee keepers than I are saying this my not pass the smell test, just saying,I'll let you make up your own mind.



Here, You have a small story that has been pass around on social media countless times and as a result, thousands of very, very experienced beekeepers evaluating what the photos show. Ask yourself why most of them are critical and not sympathetic? 

The published photos and video do much more to refute the claims than support it, in my opinion.

No matter How it happened, I see no equipment that cannot be reassembled and no dead bees that need to be replaced. Show me photos of the dead volumes of bees that match the exposure manor of death and match the damage estimates and I'll change my mind.

Perhaps more detailed photos of the damage are in order so the scrutiny will cease.

Asking for proof of legitimacy before donating is common sense and is NOT out of line


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

By looking at that pic you cant see whats under the snow.By having a police investigation you know they have scratched back snow to see the dead bees and frames and stuff underneath.I was a police officer before a beekeeper and I know I and the other officers filing out reports and investigating would of looked it all over good for fraud.


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## redmcc (Jan 30, 2003)

Rumor is Primary suspects are Dirt Bikers and four wheelers that used this property as their own playground b4 beekeepers bought it. I watch these idiots all the time they think any property no
one is fencing is "commons" ground.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

$30,693 of $24,000 goal, copied from the GoFundMe website.

Alex


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

redmcc said:


> Rumor is Primary suspects are Dirt Bikers and four wheelers that used this property as their own playground b4 beekeepers bought it. I watch these idiots all the time they think any property no
> one is fencing is "commons" ground.


I see the same thing on my property where I have about 25 hives.I dont confront them and piss them off so they dont destroy anything I have.I just put up signs.One says "Africanized Bees Can Be Deadly Keep Out". I dont have any AFB but it doesnt hurt to warn them just in case!!!! They havent been back since.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

When you go public asking for money, you expose yourself to scrutiny. Rightly so, in order to establish credibility. 

Facts are needed here, not speculation. Not conformation by the unqualified. That may include police, if they know little or nothing about bees.

I would assume, if there is question about the validity of this incident, they might bring in a qualified consultant. 

I am nether for, nor against the beekeeper in question. 

However, I AM for the folks that donated in good faith.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

If you are a police officer and you go to investigate hundreds of thousands of bees killed and destroy hives you are going to want to see those dead bees.If you dont see the dead bees then you have anything to report.My car had a brick thrown through the windshield.The car is covered by a tarp and you cant see the windshield then the police cant see it and you have nothing to report.No evidence seen!!! Same thing with investigating dead bees.Credibility comes from the police report and investigation.If they arrest someone and they never saw the dead bees then its thrown slam out of court.If you have 50 hives destroyed and hundreds of thousands of bees dead its pretty easy to know they are not wasp or hornets or bumble bees!!!


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I suspect vandals pushed over this hive on my multimillionaire client's property. Luckily I found it promptly and even though there had been some rain it recovered and produced a good crop. However I suffered stress and anguish from the incident and my client had to pay our rate to set the hive back up. I would appreciate if someone set up a Go Fund Me site so I can get some cash to compensate the two of us. I feel $2500 is adequate. But if more money than that comes in I will put it to good use. Thank You, Oliver


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Frank, the statute of limitations is up on that act of vandalism....that's been over 8 months ago. :no: :lpf:


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Lauri,

I think more photos were posted and there were some dead piles of bees in the snow next to some of the boxes. Also, the guys storage shed was wrecked too with all his spare equipment. Personally, I don't see how they couldn't recover..... and claiming they can't get insurance is absurd. All they need is a few packages of bees to get started and could easily get back up to 50 hives w/o much investment so I really don't understand why they're playing it like such a huge devastating loss. Yes, you will lose on income for the year, but can always find some other work to bring in some money on the short term while rebuilding and with any luck could still pull a decent honey crop.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I've got mixed emotions about this. Yes it is a devestating loss. Mostly because it was done to them. But if the bees had all died from mites, or worse, contracted AFB and had to be destroyed, there wouldn't be much of a story. This is the kind of thing teenage punks do. Had it been summer, you'd find the hoodlums at the hospital getting shots of benedryl or something. I hope they catch them, smear them with honey, and stake them out near an AFB hive. Teach them to respect the honey bee.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm not going to comment anymore on this subject so please, no more questions.
Just look for yourself.

https://www.facebook.com/CBSNews/videos/10155359794875950/


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## woodyard (Apr 12, 2005)

A beehive in the middle of winter is worth $1000-1200?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I was having a little trouble with the math too. Figured damaged equipment in the shed. Wooden ware did not look destroyed, just toppled over. Set everything back up, 50 packages at $120 ea. and he's back in business.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

How much wooden ware under the snow was destroyed? How much foundation will be needed? How many man hours to clean frames? No thats not a happy chore. It will take many hours away from your other normal activities. Will there be hired help needed to do all of this. Lost wages from all of this plus a lost season plus all the extra little work and things getting it all back together.Theres a little more than standing everything back up and putting bees back in.


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

Wow! That’s awful. 

It seems like they worked pretty hard to be random vandals? That level of destruction took a while.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

snapper1d said:


> How much wooden ware under the snow was destroyed? How much foundation will be needed? How many man hours to clean frames?.


If you look at the photos in the linked newspaper articles, the equipment looks like it can be re-used with little / no real effort.

I'll save you the effort of hunting for the photos, this is representative of the ones I found. Draw your own conclusions.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Who doesn't know at least one teenager who spends more time and thought trying to get out of work than it would take to just do the work?

If caught they should have to report to the beekeeper in the Spring and work with them until the operation is back up and running. This may give them the opportunity to see what honest work feels like.

Alex


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## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

odfrank said:


> .... However I suffered stress and anguish from the incident....


I can imagine that.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Hogback Honey said:


> ....... *too bad the guy didn't have some cameras hidden around.*...


They surely did (have the security camera).
But the thieves stole it.

I second those folks who think the equipment damage is exaggerated. 
Also agree that it could be a personal vendetta, a bit too much work done for just pure drunken fun.

Yes - it may look as bad as a Lego set thrown about (which is not as bad as it looks). 
But, honestly, the boxes/frames are fine and mostly ready for business as-is.
They are just flipped over and left at that.
No one took an ax or fire to them because it was just too much work.
Bees are gone - that's the only real damage, however much that maybe in $$$ amount. 

Still, a major hassle and senseless brutality, asking for serious retribution towards the vandals... 
Hopefully, caught and punished well.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I hate to jump in here but, who wouldn't have insurance on that number of hives? Also a go-fund-me page seems like a good way to avoid a false insurance claim. :scratch:

Also, who can forget this from last fall? 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?330453-the-bees-in-SC


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Nabber86 said:


> I hate to jump in here but, who wouldn't have insurance on that number of hives? Also a go-fund-me page seems like a good way to avoid a false insurance claim. :scratch:
> 
> Also, who can forget this from last fall?
> 
> ...


I would think most (nearly all) with 50 hives do not carry insurance on their bees or wooden ware.

Instantly remembered that story from last year when the beekeeping pink cloud bubble burst in SC!
Could well be another pop in IA.

Got one here who has been eerily quiet this fall and winter so far, a teacher of b's, longtime expert beekeeper, best honey, record harvests, 
magical bees, hugs all around type. I've a feeling the bubble burst just haven't heard it yet.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

The picture in #51 looks suspiciously like a PMS collapse brood frame.
I have 100+ hives for decades and have never insured my woodenware.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Many simple farm policies will insure your beekeeping outfit. 

Bees and equipment fall under personal property on mine. They don't cover losses from poor beekeeping , but do cover damage to the hives and their contents in some cases. Bears, vandalism, theft, storms, fire, transportation accidents, etc..

I upped my insurance recently after a neighbor caught(his) and my property on fire late last summer. Burned about 7 acres and some 100 + year old cedar trees on our place. 

The spot I was going to set the hives was totally burned. I just had not moved them there yet so I could do some better ground prep. All 200+ of them would have been toast had they been there in September. 

Multiple game cameras in lock boxes, secure fencing and locked gates in all my yards. 

A few signs too, just to let them know.








With all the thefts, accidents and fires destroying bees these last few years, it seems prudent to protect yourself and your assets_ before _you have a problem. 
Most of the people I know that sell honey, and run hives have a home farm policy to cover several aspects of their hobby or small up and coming business. 

























Disasters averted, lessons learned.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

When i was late teens we had all hives at home catch fire and burn to the ground -- little garden hose was not enough. Maybe 30 hives, no insurance. Luckily the investigators determined it was from a spark thrown by the railroad and Union Pacific paid out -- also a shed and pump house. 

Hmm, that does not seem relevant to this discussion, unless we are talking about insurance and recovery. Lauri mentioned farm insurance covers the personal property being covered. Seems like a hobbyist could check with homeowners and maybe add that to that also? 

I currently only have 14 hives, so don't even consider it, but at what point to consider trying to cover your bees and equipment on home owners or some other? I mean, in the case of a house fire I have all kinds of non-essential things that could be claimed because of value. Wonder if my hogs and chickens are covered? I am a hobby farmer, so does home owners cover a barn fire that kills them?

This is very interesting to me, to see where and what you can claim. I mean, if someone slips on the ice on my concrete slab where my boat is parked and sues, homeowners insurance. But if my hives get knocked over, homeowners? I am gonna make a call and find out.

Probably doesn't cover outyards, but if i own the property and pay owners insurance there?

Curious.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

You'll have to ask your agent.
A farm policy will cover many things related to home farming that a home owners policy will not. The price is not that much different between the two, but it tailored more towards the needs of the farmer for farm equipment, barns and other outdoor structures, etc. 

I included specific threats and personal property I wanted covered, it was not an issue and not very expensive. 

Burned or being stolen is a lot different than just being knocked over. 

























I don't remember these beekeepers asking for donations.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Lauri said:


> I don't remember these beekeepers asking for donations.


Yeah, would never cross my mind. But many of us here are of a different generation, methinks.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I doubt your homeowners policy would cover it. 

I only have 12 hives so I dont bother with insurance, but if I had 50+, I would definitely have a separate insurance policy the covers bees and equipment. Like Lauri said, get a farm policy. Last time I checked it was like $300 per year for a million dollars coverage. That's not a bad deal considering you cant get car insurance for that amount.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Some of you dont understand what it is to barely scrape by to just feed your families.I have been there where not having lunch or breakfast was a reality.Then at one time i had two houses that I lived in at the same time and could by a brand new vehicle and pay cash for it.I have been on both ends of it and know what its like.I dont have money any more and the internet is my only extra enjoyment that I can afford now days. Someone may have 50 hives but that surely doesnt mean they have the extra to pay for farm insurance on them. Some of you can buy it and never miss one drop of that money and some of you couldnt scrape up enough money to get the insurance.Some of you are going to say why dont you buy insurance with your profits.Some cant understand those profits are all thats going to get you fed and buy your food or gas so you tend to your bees.Most of you have never been at rock bottom and I have and I can tell you its a heck of a struggle to get back up and dust your butt off.Semper Fi!!!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

duplicate


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

"Don't make assumptions" Its true some people have never experienced rock bottom.Some have never slept in your vehicle at night when you didnt have a place to go.Have you? If you truly have then you would know whats it like.Sometimes its not as easy as just go buy insurance for your bees.


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## c-bees (Jun 1, 2017)

Nothing happens that you don't let happen, and if you don't get that, you don't get nothing.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

oops:scratch:


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I use to work at a gun/archery shop years ago.
About once a week, some guy would come in to buy a gun safe, all heated up and ticked because someone broke in and stole all his fire arms. 

Not _once_ did I sell a gun safe to anyone BEFORE they got ripped off, only after.

That's one of the things I meant when I say 'disasters averted lessons learned'. Not all the disasters befell me personally, but I pay attention to the lessons and avoid making those mistakes myself. That means being proactive when it comes to security. 

There always seems to be enough money to buy another gun, or another hive, but never enough to protect them.
Sure no one wants to spend the money. The risk is pretty substantial though if things go sideways.

It's risky not to protect your investment when it comes to bees. Once you get to a certain level, you have assets to protect so you can continue to operate in the future. If you are at that level, you are likely producing something to sell to cover your overhead. To be blunt, if you're not, you need to. 
Like I said, a farm policy isn't much more than a home owners policy. You just have to specify what you have and make sure it is covered to some extent from the biggest threats.

If you can't afford to insure your operation, you can't afford to be wiped out ether. I guess folks have to make their choices and weight the options.

Insurance aside, Money is well spent on cameras, locked gates and fences that are not easy to penetrate. Good tires on your rig and plenty of good ratchet straps, etc, etc.. 



They also cost money. But An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say. I guess that is the point I am trying to get across.

Doesn't matter whether it's against Man or Beast, Mother Nature or just plain bad luck.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Duplicate


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

lauri
I don't insure things that I can afford to lose. That does not mean that if I guess wrong that the losing does not hurt or set me back. Insurance makes money, they don't lose money. So people play the odds and sometimes win and some times lose. Believe me, you could have even more insurance then you do. You could find things to buy insurance for "just in case" that could take every penny you make. Believe me, they sell it if you want it bad enough.

When someone take something from someone else it is wrong wether that person had insurance or not. I have some insurance but also have things I take a chance on, that does not mean that I am not getting screwed if some one hurts me. I paid ten grand for a car rather then get a loan and being forced to buy full coverage. That does not mean I want to have somebody steal that car and losing ten thousand would hurt me pretty bad. I take a chance and hope I bet right.

I hear you but personally don't feel these guys got what they deserved because they did not buy insurance. I don't always claim things I could claim on insurance cause in the end they raise your rates to get their money back half the time or cancel you.

I doubt I give to some gofund but believe that is because I am a bad guy that only help those really close to me that I can see and should help them more then I do. I would not say that if this happened to them that it aint bad and myself would look up to people who decided to be better persons then I am and did decide to give. If it was found to be a scam later, then the people that did it should be hated. If however they count to the max of thier losses, That is what I would do if I did have insurance and made a claim. I wouldn't do it to try and screw the insurance but more to add up the most I lost and not the least. Too many times the insurance fixes what can be seen but later you find other things that were not noticed but were caused by whatever event happenned.

I am not a big beleliever in over insuring. I try for the min so that I have the ability to live through events and then hope those events don't happen and save my money if those events don't happen. If they do happen, I take my lumps and say I guessed wrong on this one. I wonder how many have bought extended insurance on thier cars and had the company they bought it from go bankrupt or find the fees for each visit made it not that good of a deal unless the motor blew?

I say if somebody did this to them, I feel bad for them and I feel really bad for them if they didn't have insurance. I also say that it was a lot of work to get and run 50 hives and people don't deserve this.
Cheers
gww


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Lauri said:


> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure


In some situations it's worth a lot more than that.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Insurance is one of the few things in life you can't afford to NOT buy. You keep the premiums down by determining how much you can afford to lose and make that your deductible. I carry an umbrella policy on top of my homeowners because the last thing I want is some Jehovah's Witness slipping on my ice covered front porch and suing me for more than my homeowners policy will cover. I also carry business insurance on my part time business for the same reason. 10% of my net part time income covers me if I accidentally burn down a restaurant.


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## Outdoor N8 (Aug 7, 2015)

Draw your own conclusions.









[/QUOTE]

Could someone help me out: I see the capped brood --but where are their stores? where is the honey in the corners? Was this a viable colony?


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## couesbro (Feb 4, 2017)

Outdoor N8 said:


> Draw your own conclusions.


Could someone help me out: I see the capped brood --but where are their stores? where is the honey in the corners? Was this a viable colony?[/QUOTE]

I think the honey from the corners of those frames are probably in a mouse's stomach. It does not take a mouse very long to ruin a few frames.


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## c-bees (Jun 1, 2017)

Smart.....filing a bogus insurance claim is illegal, even if they had insurance. But kicking a bunch of winter deadouts over in the snow and then e-begging.....well, that's just tacky.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

couesbro said:


> I think the honey from the corners of those frames are probably in a mouse's stomach. It does not take a mouse very long to ruin a few frames.


If that's the only honey that was on that frame (a little patch eaten by a mouse), that frame has no business being in the wintering hive mid-cluster.
The pictures, indeed, seem unconvincing. 
I too begin to wonder.....


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

If you look at some of the other pictures, there appears to be a lot of undrawn plastic foundation. I would not go so far as to say the story is bogus, but I do think the value of the loss stated was highly inflated.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

http://www.kcrg.com/content/news/2-boys-arrested-for-Sioux-City-beehive-destruction-469771403.html


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Little kids, Geez. 
And in a heap of trouble now.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

clyderoad said:


> Little kids, Geez.
> And in a heap of trouble now.


For shore. Apologies to C W McCall. So now the value is at 60K? Over 1K per hive? WTF?

Oops, Getting old. Apologies to Cledus Maggard and the Citizens Band.


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## redmcc (Jan 30, 2003)

The police department said Wednesday two boys, ages 12 and 13, have been arrested in connection with the incident, which drew ire from people across the country and garnered national and international media coverage. Because they were charged as juveniles, the suspects cannot be identified under state privacy law.





Seeing arrests made less than a month after the vandalism occurred was welcome news to Justin Engelhardt.


“It’s huge, right? It demonstrates the professionalism and determination of the Sioux City Police 

Department and we couldn’t be happier,” he said.


Despite the crime taking place in a secluded area with no witnesses, police were able to track down the suspects after following a series of leads and tips from the public. Police said they don't anticipate any future arrests in connection with the case.


The two boys have been charged with three felonies, criminal mischief in the first degree, agricultural animal facilities offenses and burglary in the third 

degree, as well as an aggravated misdemeanor, possession of burglar's tools. The felonies would carry penalties of up to 10 years in prison and fines as much as $10,000. Criminal cases involving minors are typically adjudicated in juvenile court, however.


Though the law has been on the books in Iowa since 1991, prosecution for agricultural animal facilities offenses is rare, according to county assistant attorney Mark Campbell.

"I can’t think of any case where we’ve had prosecution in Woodbury County — I may be wrong, but I don’t recall anything,” said Campbell, who has worked in the office 34 years.


According to the state code, a person found guilty of violating the law can be taken to district court by the offended parties to seek recovery of damages in an amount that is three times actual and consequential damage, and also force the defendant to cover the victim’s court and attorney fees.


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## Richinbama (Jan 15, 2018)

I think there were 3 go fund med started, they had to shut one down.... maybe the goal was met on that one???


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