# No reaction?



## Teamdasher

I made my sciatica worse by injuring myself jump roping in January (Dr. Says I have a lot of arthritis in my SI joint for a 28 year old and is sending me to a rheumatologist). I've tried all the normal stuff to gain relief with no avail, so I've turned to BVT (been wanting to start a hive anyway). This evening my husband stung me for the first time four times around my SI joint after I iced. They made little welts initially, but have almost completely faded, and are not itchy at all. I *think* it took the edge off my pain, but it's hard to say for sure. I definitely feel achy where my sacrum usually hurts. Not today but the previous two days I took 1,200mg of Aleve because I was hurting so bad. Is that why I had minimal reaction? Does icing inhibit the function of the bee sting? I'm also taking propolis and pollen every day. What should I expect from my first time as far as relief?


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## Bee Bliss

An apitherapist that we saw said not to take an NSAID except for aspirin when doing apitherapy.
She said no steroids and be careful if on medications.
She told us to drink water.
She told us to take Vitamin C.
She said to ice and then sting. Ice really takes the punch of the sting out. 
For tender/painful spots from stings, she said.........ice, sting and apply heat for comfort.
In general, we were to sting the spinal column in addition to just about any other area.
She recommended bee pollen (mixed with honey and aged), royal jelly, propolis and honey also. 

If this were me I would in addition to doing apitherapy, I would see a chiropractor.

I am not a doctor. Just passing on info we got from an apitherapist.


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## jbraun

As a former licensed massage therapist I'll give you my opinion about your sciatica. There are deep lateral rotator muscles that move your hips. When one of them goes into spasm from being overworked they bunch up on you. This presses on the sciatic nerve and is called sciatica. A trained massage therapist should be able to help you with your problem. I'm not saying that an apitherapist may not be able to help you. But if you find a massage therapist close to you one or two sessions with them should resolve your problem. If you ask for some one who does deep tissue work you should be able to narrow your search to find a competent professional.


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## Teamdasher

One of my best friends is a trained and excellent massage therapist. 8 weeks of weekly deep tissue massage did nothing for the pain. I have foraminal narrowing in L4-L5 and L5-S1. The pain isn't in my low back though. It's down lower near the middle of the SI Joint and radiates towards the top of my femur. Then skips my whole leg and shows up again at my calf to the point where I cannot stand for very long. I also have a trigger point on my pisiformis at the hip insertion site. If I do push past the pain and stand for any length of time, the pain will not go away for hours even when I stay laying down (like at bed time). I tried steroid injections (doc did it in L4-L5) about 3 weeks ago. It was great until the anasthetic wore off, so a couple hours. I hate taking drugs- even Aleve. They prescribed me a bunch of stuff including steroids, but I'd rather not take it, and the meloxicam they gave me didn't work anyway. I've had and MRI and a X-ray of my low back/pelvis and no one has been able to give me any answers except that I have arthritis. I stretch daily, and was exercising every day before this happened. I know you're not supposed to take NSAIDs while doing bee sting therapy so I was wondering if perhaps the Aleve I took the previous two days caused me to have almost no reaction to the stings.


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## maudbid

Sometimes stings have little to no effect. I have never had anything more than a small, short duration welt when stung anywhere on my torso. As I have been stung more often most times I have little to no effect anywhere.

Just trust that the BVT is working deeper in your body and don't worry about the immediately local effects as an indicator.


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## Bee Bliss

Teamdasher, sorry for what you are going thru. Pain is so restrictive for living life and doing the things you love to do. 

I don't know how much you know about apitherapy and so I am trying to help with the information from an apitherapist. Are you familiar with the areas to sting and know why? Bee venom travels along nerves and in the blood stream so it can reach all areas, but still good to sting the area directly. There is a lot of good information in this apitherapy section on Beesource.

Anyone starting apitherapy should make sure they do not have an allergy to bee venom. Stings should be recorded by date, number of stings total to date, number of stings that day, location, progress, etc. Stingers should be left in 15 minutes. She suggested we sting 3x a week and gradually increase.

My understanding about medication warnings and bee venom therapy is that some CAUSE or increase the chances of a reaction a person would not ordinarily have. She cautioned also about having alcohol during the time period of 24 hrs. before and 24 hrs. after stinging.

One reason for stinging the spinal column is because all the nerves travel down the spinal column and then branch out into the area they serve. The spinal column has three sections. The top section has nerves that go to the arms, hands, elbows, the middle section is for organs, etc. and the lower section is for hips, legs, knees, feet. So if a person is trying to heal an elbow for example, they should sting the whole upper area of the spinal column as well as the elbow. 

Apitherapists sting these areas:

spinal column
site of pain, inflammation or infection
trigger areas
scars 

Sometimes a chiropractor can make adjustments and get pressure off nerves to restore "flow" thus allowing an area to heal.

I read recently that a person rubbed lavendar essential oil on a painful knee and that helped with pain.

Best of luck and blessings to you!

~ Bee Bliss

p.s. I am not a doctor.


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## Teamdasher

I'm very much into alternative healing and have been for about 8 years. I've tried a lot of different oils, and now two steroid injections. I did the stings every day for a week and stung my L4-L5, l5-S1 as well as the painful areas without any change in pain levels. I stopped because I didn't want to explain the symmetrical lumps to the pain doctor when I went to have a second diagnostic injection into my SI joint. It worked until the anasthetic wore off (an hour maybe?). I've started taking diatomaceous earth (food grade) and MSM daily (for five days now) and I'm unsure if it's helping. I stung again yesterday along where I have a very tight muscle near my iliac crest (5x) and in my calf near my knee where I have pain (1x). Those spots are very swollen and itchy today and I perhaps feel worse than I had been feeling. I've done months of chiro, oils, PT and now 2 steroid injections. I eat very clean (avoid dairy/sugar/grains) and I'm at my wits end. Maybe I should have stung my spine yesterday too. I wish more than anything I could get this chronic pain to go away. I see an rheumatologist tomorrow, though I don't think it's my problem (labs already came back normal). Has anyone ever had an issue with the stings making it worse? Was that temporary followed by relief?


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## Westhill

Hi Teamdasher,
I hope you get some help and answers from the rheumatologist. There is an illness called ankylosing spondylitis, which I have, that makes your SI hurt like crazy. It can also make joints in the rest of your body hurt. The pain is worse after rest--if you have this you will have pain in the middle of the night while sleeping and when you wake up, but after moving around it will get better.

This disease is often diagnosed in young men in their late teens or early 20s, but people of all ages and both sexes do get it.

There are all kinds of meds for this.

Non-med treatments that have helped me are swimming (if you can't swim, just go in the pool and move around), other exercise and stretching, and eating no gluten/grains/starches. If your doctor tells you that you have this, look up London AS diet for info. This is the only diet proven to help people with this illness.

This disease is often linked to having a specific gene called HLA B27 but you CAN have it without that gene. I do not have the gene but I do have the disease. You can also have this disease with lots of pain and have your labs look totally normal. If you just look at my labs, I look like the healthiest person on the planet. However, an MRI of my SI joint showed it was lit up like a Christmas tree with inflammation.

Basically I wanted to let you know that if you do have it, you are not alone. There are facebook groups, national organizations, and other resources for people who have it. PM me if you need info.


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## Bee Bliss

Teamdasher, 

I wrote out a response before about this, but lost it before I posted. It was better, but here goes......


Check out this on Dr. Carolyn Dean and magnesium ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLyNV7vBNE4

Pain can be caused by muscle cramping.

She says that magnesium is a muscle relaxer, but that calcium (too much and not in balance with the magnesium level in the body) causes muscles to cramp. She states that magnesium will relax the muscles, but that sometimes muscles shorten because of being cramped for too long and that that is what is continuing to cause pain. In this case, she recommends magnesium along with gentle exercises.

Dean covers many of the health issues people have because as she puts it "most people are deficient in magnesium". She recommends people do various things to get magnesium levels in their bodies up. Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) soaks are good and avoid the laxative effect from too much taken orally. Some oral magnesium is also not readily absorbed, but the Epsom salt soaks help with that and is easily absorbed by the skin.

Dean says that magnesium is necessary to help the body function and detox.

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Westhill, I thought I read something about using propolis regarding ankylosing spondylitis. Maybe you can google it.

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Many sources say when doing bee venom therapy to also take propolis, royal jelly, honey and bee pollen (make manmade bee bread by mixing pollen with honey and letting sit for two weeks on countertop). When bee products are taken together, it boosts the performance of each individual item.



I am not a doctor. Just sharing information which you may check out and decide upon.


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## Westhill

Thanks Bee Bliss, I will check that out about propolis and ankylosing spondylitis. I am also curious to see if bee stings lead to any improvement in it. I have mostly gone into remission just from diet, but do still hurt some--hoping stings will help. I figure I'll get them anyway, so why not see if they improve things?


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