# Guess the comb problem...



## dug_6238 (May 9, 2007)

*1st guess...*

Hive fell on its side, comb tore lose.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Racoon?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

box was mishandled (dropped) on a very hot day and comb broke away near top bar?


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## Show-me (Aug 3, 2007)

I will go with fell over or blown over. The comb looks like it was force to one end of the frame and the wires are bent that way.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

bjorn hungry?


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

Deep frame wasn't crossed wired and hive fell.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

You got Small Hive Beetle!?? In Pennsylvania?


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

Somebody left a hot thermos of coffee in the hive?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Bear damage, comb out in sun.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Nice guess. 

This was from the end nuc sitting on the west side of one of my nuc yards. This was the frame to the hottest side (sun side or west)) and it melted and collapsed. The bees tried to clean it up and this is how it was as I pulled it up. The wire may or may not of bent in puling it up as it was one big blob at the bottom. So astro was correct about the hot day, but was way off on the mishandling part. (HA, Ha, not even on a bad day!  )

We had some days near 98. But in the past i never had this happen, even at those temps.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Well, an,.....interesting photo to say the least,.. [could be anything] and question that's for sure.
Do you like to play games with us,.Bjorn?

Maybe we could start a new sub-forum with photos and ask,...what's the problem? We could have a 'newbee' level and a hobbyist level and a Masters and even a PhBee! level!! Let others join in on the "fun".


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Good to here it was from heat. Because I was gonna guess. YETI!!!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Oldbee said:


> Well, a pretty dumb photo [could be anything] and question that's for sure.
> Do you like to play games with us,.Bjorn?
> 
> Maybe we could start a new sub-forum with photos or descriptions and ask,...what's the problem? We could have a 'newbee' level and a hobbyist level and a MASTERS and even a PHD! level!! Let others join in on the "fun".


Glad you liked it.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"Glad you liked it". Bjorn.

I did??

I really gotta get some photos up on Beesource; to challenge BjornB. lol.


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## EngineeringBeek (Mar 4, 2008)

I was gonna guess heat, until I got to page 2 and saw that it had already been answered. Not too bad for a newbie I guess.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oldbee said:


> "Glad you liked it". Bjorn.
> 
> I did??
> 
> I really gotta get some photos up on Beesource; to challenge BjornB. lol.


Take a chill pill Oldbee. Lighten up.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I know that Bjorn stated as much but what make it interesting to me is that we've already had days with temps over a hundred. Not to mention countless days in previous years above that. I've yet to see anything like this, in a healthy hive, as a result.
Don't you think there is something else involved????


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"Take a chill pill Oldbee. Lighten up". sqkcrk.



Lighten up?? Like I said, the "photo problem" could be anything. A frame of melted wax! So what. The thread starter is obviously a well known beekeeper with a lot of hives/experience and to post a photo like that is just absurd to then ask,...what happened here? 


Some photos that are presented on Beesource have a legitimate problem or question about beekeeping that needs to be resolved, but to post a photo as a kind of "joke" [frame of melted wax] and then ask responders to offer their opinions as to what happened, knowing all along it was a WEIRD circumstance is,.................disgusting.

A photo like that from a "newbee" would be acceptable that deserves a well thought out answer. NOT this one!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Take a chill pill Oldbee. Lighten up.



Don't waste your time. I can not understand how someone who takes no enjoyment in such posts, would actually respond and waste time on the matter. Some posts interest me, some don't. But to actually gripe about the one's you don't like or better yet, not enjoy, seems as about as useless of one's life as possible.

Personally, I think it may go deeper than just complaining about my asking someone to take a guess at a photo. Someones toes must of been stepped on, and this is about the best way they have in lashing out and holding a grudge. Oh well!

I thought perhaps a new beekeeper would find it interesting, and maybe even see something for the first time. But with an open forum, I guess you take the good and the bad just the same.

For those such as oldbee, you can ignore, vent in private, or even contact me directly. But I am certain I am not the only one who thinks the replies to this post are somewhat petty and childish at best.

To everyone else who played along, thank you.


beemandan,

I know I have had hotter days also. The nuc was painted green and was the one at the end of the row. The other frames were fine. I know it was the side of the nuc that got much hotter with the sun beating down on it. It would interesting to see what the surface temp inside and out (wall), of a hive and nuc could reach. I know its much hotter than 100.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

It happened to me last year when I moved two very strong Nucs, with nice, recently mated queens, from their shady spot under a Mesquite tree, next to my other hives, under a lesser amount of shade. They completely melted down and killed the bees, entirely a molten puddle of wax, honey, pollen, brood, and dead bees, running out the Nuc entrances. I am never again going to relocate a colony during our warm season, from more to less shade.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Boy JC, thats just wierd, and disgusting.....


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

BjornBee,
I guess heat and direct sun can cause problems even in those places I usually think of as being much cooler than here - like farther North.

It's 110F outside right now and our evaporative cooler is doing well to blow in air that is cooled to 80F. It helps to step outside every hour or so for a few minutes, then coming in from the heat makes it feel that much cooler inside.

The outside relative humidity is 6%, so they say ours is a "dry heat", and something they call the "heat index" says that, with our combination of low R.H., wind, and heat, it feels like only 101F. But, when you're outside in the sun it still feels mighty hot.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

I have posted positive comments about photos that are deserving [to be worthy of merit] but a photo of melted wax to be made into a contest? 



To simply post the photo and then explain what happened [to the "newbees"] would have been better than to make a guessing game of it.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"Boy, JC. That's just "wierd", and disgusting...Bjorn.

And,..by the way,..it's NOT wierd or wired,.. it's WEIRD. Just like I spelled it the first time. You don't even trust other peoples spelling!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

BjornBee said:


> It would interesting to see what the surface temp inside and out (wall), of a hive and nuc could reach. I know its much hotter than 100.


How do you know it would be much hotter? Hives are kept in much hotter climates than yours without comb failure due to melting. I suspect there is more at play here than simply the sun exposure on the side of the nuc and the air temperature.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Joseph Clemens said:


> It happened to me last year when I moved two very strong Nucs,


Notice that both you and Bjorn are talking nucs. It suggests to me that a nuc does not have the same ability to regulate inside hive temps as a standard size hive.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Barry said:


> Notice that both you and Bjorn are talking nucs. It suggests to me that a nuc does not have the same ability to regulate inside hive temps as a standard size hive.


Barry, 
It sounds like you may be on to something there. Though I am not planning to sacrifice any colonies to test the theory. Does anyone have an experience, they care to relate, where something like this happened to a full-size colony?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I have never had this happen to a full size hive. I have come across old beekeepers who gripe alot. I have run across those who as a last resort, belittle another in a discussion due to a spelling error. But I have yet to have a full size hive have comb melt down.

I'm not sacrificing any hive either. I don't need a study or university to tell me that a five frame nuc may very well have a lesser amount of ventelation or air flow problems. That's a given. A given as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. A given as sure as oldbee will post another reply complaining about something.... 

PS - I have purposely left ventilation spelled incorrectly in the above paragraph. I figure it must be hard to find something else when it gets to this point. So I'm just trying to help you out oldbee....In my own little disgusting way.  Wierd huh?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Barry said:


> How do you know it would be much hotter? Hives are kept in much hotter climates than yours without comb failure due to melting. I suspect there is more at play here than simply the sun exposure on the side of the nuc and the air temperature.


How do I know its hotter? Because I can place my hand on the sun side of a hive and compare to the shade side. I can also figure that the metal top is much hotter than anything inside the hive could tolerate. 

I think my thought on testing the outside of the hive versus the inside, would be interesting to see how many degrees it would change by the bees efforts.

Whether there was more or less ventilation, or the dynamics of the hive was larger or smaller, or any other detail changed, the comb melted due to too much heat. To suggest that it melted due to not enough ventilation is really missing the point. It melted because the temps were to high. Now if your asking why was it too hot, then we can discuss many secondary issues. Of course I think the nuc does not regulate heat as well as a full size hive. I also think the paint color had something to do with it.

All I know is one week the comb and nuc looked great, and the next week one comb dropped after near 100 degree temps.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

First off, thanks for starting this thread, I've found it interesting despite a singular, but vocal objection. Sure beats the endless queen excluder debate!!

I run a few nucs throughout the year and have never observed this problem. I gotta believe that we're a bit hotter than up your way. In the past, I've run mostly plastic foundation, but this year I tried a couple foundationless frames. I guess I better check on them to see if they withstood the 105 F temps we had last week.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Barry said:


> nuc does not have the same ability to regulate inside hive temps as a standard size hive.


I had a full nuc (4-11 1/4" frames) this year next to 14 full size hives on screened pallets. We had a 97 degree heat wave, hot for around here. All the hives were bearded out big time, the nuc was hugely bearded out. Half the bees in the nuc suffocated.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Bjorn, What color was the nuc in question? Maybe you have a photo of it?

While at school, in Ohio Dr. Tew did some data collection on temps inside and outside a hive. This wasn't in a nuc in June, so maybe this story is of little value.

The temperature in the cluster was 98 degrees. Between the cluster and the wall of the hive, to the side, the temperature was the same as the temperature outside the hive. The temperature above the cluster, inside the hive, was less than 98 degrees, if I recall correctly, but not much less.

I think that if your nuc box got so hot that it melted that comb then it needs to be better ventilated. As you already figured out.

I have heard of this happening in styrofoam nuc boxes, which I assume yours was not. Right?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Bees in nuc boxes*

It gets pretty hot here in Fresno too. The nucs will benefit greatly from a ventilated cover, partially screened sides, screened holes in ends, etc. Only happens in those small boxes.

Looks for all the world like something else though, doesn't it? http://www.beesource.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

So far this season we have had over 20 days with temps over 100 degrees, along with high humidity and almost no rainfall. No comb meltings so far that I am aware of, but my hives are protected from the blazing western sun after about 2 p.m.
The temperature referred by Bjorn (and all other official measurements) are air temperatures that are recorded in the shade. Using an infrared laser thermometer, I have taken the temperature of various sun-exposed surfaces outdoors and get a range of temps from 118 to 150 degrees. Almost don't need a solar wax melter!
I enjoyed examining the picture you posted, Bjorn, and giving my diagnostic abilities a test. It would be fun if others posted any other interesting pictures they may have. I'll post any I run across.

Jeffrey


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

I have lost huge swarms in the Styrofoam nuc boxes, not enough ventilation. They will leave if given a chance when it's too hot. I usually move them into wood nucs when it gets hot, I also use SBB's on my wooden nucs during the summer.

I understand that green will absorb more heat than other dark colors, I would look at that being the cause of the overheating.


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## Truchaos (Jun 30, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Bjorn, What color was the nuc in question? Maybe you have a photo of it?



Sqkcrk, his nuc boxes are wooden (plywood) and painted white. 

BornBee, I enjoyed the picture and would love to see more. 

But, I'm guessing with your vast experience and knowledge you won't have many pictures of failures from your apiaries...


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

If you look at the homepage of the Bjorn website, you can see some typical colors. The nuc that melted was a darker green.

As for failures, and you have me smiling here Truchoas, I've got all the failures I can handle. I'm going out this morning to harvest my WHOPPING 7 cells from a graft of 32, that for some reason was from what I can see, is a failure. Most of my experience has come about by failures. Would not trade it for nothing!  Although your right about me not having pictures of most. I always never seem to have the camera handy when real cool stuff happens.


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## King bee apiary (Feb 8, 2005)

Mouse setup house.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

King bee apiary said:


> Mouse setup house.


It sure 'looks' like that,...doesn't it?? lol.


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