# Interaction with Brushy Mountain



## ekervina

I recently ordered some supplies from Brushy Mountain through their website. Everything I ordered was listed as "in stock."

A day or two later I got an e-mail saying one or more items was out of stock. I undersand that computerised inventories and real-world inventories will often not be perfectly synchronized, and this is the busy time of year, so I wasn't bothered by that.

I called to get more information before deciding what to do, and was told the only item that was out was the one-pound of foundation wire. The lady I spoke to said they still had half-pound rolls, so I asked if they could substitute two half pound rolls. She put me on hold for a while, then came back and said they couldn't do it, I would have to pay the regular price for half-pound rolls. It only came out to about $2 difference, so I agreed.

Then she said that my order wouldn't go out for another two weeks, unless I paid an extra $10 for expedited processing, which I reluctantly agreed to.

I've received the items, and they are all satisfactory. However, I am still bothered by a couple of things. I don't currently run a business, but I have before, and a few times I had to take a loss to meet a customer's needs. I've found that talking to the customer, explaining that you don't have exactly what they need, but working out something that satisfies them pays back large dividends in repeat business. I'm surprised that when I called Brushy Mountain I wasn't asked "Will two half-pound rolls work? We'll lose a bit of money on it, but if that will suit your need, we'll make that substitution."

The other thing that bothers me is I wasn't told it would be two weeks to process until I had already agreed to a more expensive order. What if my order had just sat in the pipeline for two weeks? Maybe they would have had the one-pound wire back in stock by then. If not, get in touch with me then and we'll work things out. If they had waited to see what was in inventory when they actually got to my order, I would have ignored the two-week delay as being just part of the busy season.

Yeah, it's only $12, but between not being willing to make a substitution, and charging me for a substitution that may not actually have even been necessary...

Well, I hope they enjoy the $12 because they will not be my first choice of supplier in the future. I'm not saying I'll never do business with them, but I will be strongly inclined to try other suppliers first.


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## FindlayBee

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Easiest way to remedy that would be to say the following words "If you cannot substitute two smaller quantities to make up for the larger quantity missing and not charge me, CANCEL MY ORDER"!

There are other places to order from. Still might take you the same amount of time to get the items from another supplier, but it lets the first business know you are not happy and are willing to go elsewhere. I work in sales and service. I have made service price reductions to keep a customer (within reason). I think $2 is within reason. I have also had to tell people "I am sorry, but we cannot do that" and had customers go elsewhere (For instance customer demanding free service, heavily reduced price, etc).

That being said, I have ordered 3 times from Brushy Mountain. I have no complaints on my end.

Not sure why they charged you more to ship the items when it was still within the original processing time frame.


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## ekervina

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I didn't want to cancel the order, because I already knew that the other suppliers I usually use were out of stock of (or didn't carry) some of the things I wanted. Honestly, I had other things to do than hunt from supplier to supplier find everything I wanted in one place. Some days I have more time than money, that particular day, I had more money than time. 

The products I've gotten from them in the past have been good quality and fairly priced. But when it comes to a non-routine interaction - something requiring customer service contact - my single experience was disappointing.

And again, I'm not totally writing them off. I'm just moving them to the bottom of the four or five places I buy from when I need stuff.

EDIT: Also, the $10 was for same-day processing. By that point, I just wanted to get the transaction over and done with.


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## jbford

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Kelley's usually ships the same or next day. Usually where I go if it is needed NOW.


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## RayMarler

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Only 12 bucks? for 12 bucks, I can get 2 Big Carl meals at Carl's Jr. That is dinner for 2 days in a row!


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## FindlayBee

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

So far I have only purchased bee supplies from Brushy Mountain. I believe they are a good company.

One bit of business advice I received a few years ago was "Don't step over dollars to pick up pennies".


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## ekervina

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I've bought from Walter Kelley, Dadant, Brushy Mountain, and Mann Lake. Mostly Dadant because they are between me and some land I own, so I can stop in and pick stuff up without paying shipping.

They've all been pretty decent. this experience with Brushy Mountain has been the only one that I was less than happy about. And "less than happy" is probably the best description. I'm not mad or anything, just a bit disappointed.


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## beehive

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

i cant say anything about BM but Walter Kelley did sort of the same thing with me stepped over dollars for pennies. i will be reluctant to do business with them again. i hope it was worth the long term bad press for them.

I also dont understand how these supplers order. dont they have stock rooms to order enough to meet demand? 2 weeks dont cut it when i need it tomorrow. each year these suppliers have reoprts as to how much was sold last year, get more to meet demand! or people will go elsewhere for supplies.


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## NewbeeNnc

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Over time all the suppliers will disappoint in one way or another. The market is still comparably small and the demand is high with everyone jumping into bee keeping.


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## akbees

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

They were the first company I ordered from and were thoughtful, pleasant and answered all of my questions. I had backorder issues, but that was only in the top of the bee season. I suspect that's an issue with anyone you order from and it's because Brushy is so busy with customers. I can't imagine trying to keep ahead of all the new beekeeper's, it has exploded in the last 12 months.

I think it's important to plan ahead for your needs and expect that things aren't going to go smoothly if you order stuff at the last minute.

They were very considerate with me and did everything they could to lower my shipping costs with Alaska and even gave me an expensive free item when it had been backordered. 

If you are as sweet as honey, you'll reap the same. I think they're a "super" company and I'd go back to them anytime!


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## ekervina

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



akbees said:


> If you are as sweet as honey, you'll reap the same.


I'm glad your experience with them has been good, but I resent the implication of the quoted portion of your reply. You seem to be saying I am somehow responsible for their failure to practice good customer service. When I was talking to them, the entire exchange was polite and friendly on both sides. I did not threaten to take my business elsewhere, raise my voice, make accusations, deliver ultimatums, or anything like that. I'm not sure what you might think I should have done to be "sweet as honey," but it seems to me that expressing what would make me happy (two half pound rolls for the same price as a full pound roll) should be all the impetus they required to realize they had a good chance of locking me in as a repeat customer if they met that $2 request. And with the expedited processing they would *still* be up $8.


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## Bsupplier

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Beehive,
What are you referring to? How did we mistreat you?


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## oldenglish

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



beehive said:


> i cant say anything about BM but Walter Kelley did sort of the same thing with me stepped over dollars for pennies. i will be reluctant to do business with them again. i hope it was worth the long term bad press for them.
> 
> I also dont understand how these supplers order. dont they have stock rooms to order enough to meet demand? 2 weeks dont cut it when i need it tomorrow. each year these suppliers have reoprts as to how much was sold last year, get more to meet demand! or people will go elsewhere for supplies.


I cannot speak for the big guys but I have been helping out my local store and they have had a hard time keeping up with demand, so far sales for the year are up 50% over last year, stuff that has been on the shelves for years is flying off. It is almost impossible to keep enough on hand for every contingency. Even if they had the $$ to stock unlimited merchandise they just do not have the room, plus this "busy" spell typically only goes from Feb -Apr here, the rest of the year will be relatively quiet. It also does not help when folks show up to collect their package bee orders and ask for ready built boxes anf frames on the spot, advanced notice is a great thing.


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## Ted n Ms

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I placed an order with kelley online. The next morning the lady called my cell and asked if knew that my frames and foundation didn't match and wanted to make sure before she shipped. I ordered on sun. nite got my order wed. morn. Now that is SERVICE


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## mrspock

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Had a positive experience with both kelley and brushy here, although I did find the interactions with Brush to be a bit "warmer" than Kelley.

Otherwise, goods delivered as expected.


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## devdog108

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I didnt order from BM or Kelly based on the shipping prices. I ship stuff all over the nation, atm parts and things, that far outweigh(literally) any order of bee supplies and do it for cheaper than either one of those 2 can. Sad but true. Now i order from Dadant. Their shipping is more in line/poundage.


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## jsharum

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Ive been ordering from BM too and all my orders sit for about a week before they ship. I contacted them and they said their shipping dept is just that far behind. Understandable but an inconvience. Maybe BM should be bringing in some seasonal help in the shipping dept to get orders out? I would if it was my company. Let the college kids come in and package orders. I have been buying most of my stuff from Simposns and they are wonderful. They are small time and i like the small time business and person to person service. i will continue to do business with BM I still really like them and their prices are good.


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## StevenG

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I've never had a problem with Kelley's, even with a couple of special requests. And their shipping is usually same day. I've also found Dadant's shipping to be fast also...same day or next day.


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## beekeepinglady~SC

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

They did the same to me but I just told them no thanks and went to my local hardware store and got the wire I needed. I understand it's a busy time for them but they should keep the web updated because they know people are ordering. You can find a lot of what you need at the hardware store. Good luck to you


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## checotah

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I must say I have been very disappointed by Brush Mountain. I ordered on 4/2/2010. They did not have some stuff in stock that showed to have in stock on the website. I cancelled some of the missing items. The Lady I talked to said 5 to 7 days and was also stated in an email. I emailed 10 days later and still no shipping date and now they will not even respond to my emails and still no product. So I think I will have to avoid them from here on out. I would have to advise others to do the same.


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## bigbearomaha

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I am a reseller locally for Brushy Mountain products and I face the same delays in my orders.

This is not a mom and pop shop ( like my business is) this is a company that is popular and takes orders from around the country. this is a busy time of the bee season for all suppliers.

Which is yet another reason why I try to keep a local stock of the things people will want so they don't have to wait on shipping, etc.. from halfway across the country.

That's just what happens when you deal with a bigger, popular company, sometimes you have to wait becasue everyone else wants their attention too.

Big Bear


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## Guest

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Consumers have gotten a lot more demanding over the last 20 years or so...they are used to companies bending over backwards to make them happy. Company makes tiny mistake = I want you to give me something for free and beg me to continue to do business. 

It wasn't that long ago that most any mailorder business had a little disclaimer that read "allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery." Wow. We've come a long way.

I find it very odd that this experience resulted in a complaint, though in this day and age not very surprising. Sounds like they went out of their way to inform the customer that some items were on backorder, offered them the choice of same day shipping for an additional fee (many don't offer this)...and the bottom line is that if they weren't satisfied with the cost or the time frame they could have cancelled the order...they didn't...obviously the company had something they wanted enough that they needed that order and they agreed to the terms they offered.

The primary complaint here seems to be that this company didn't do cartwheels. That might be a reason to choose one company over another if you have a choice , but I don't think its really fair to complain because they weren't going above and beyond. Sounds to me like the customer got exactly what they paid for on the terms they agreed to. If another company gives you a bonus, by all means, give them your business, but I don't think its fair to slander a company because they don't give out bonuses.


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## bennybee

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I've e-mail bm on a number of occassions and NEVER received a response. bm if you are not going to respond to e-mails take the "contact us" off of your webb site. As far as being busy. I could care less. Hire who you need to and get the job done. They always seem to be behind in shipping. Fix the system or risk losing customers. Sorry if this is a little direct but I'm older and I remember " the customer is always right" era. Now days it's a joke. Excuses from a company doesn't cut it with me. How can we satisfy you does.


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## CentralPAguy

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



Bronk said:


> The primary complaint here seems to be that this company didn't do cartwheels. That might be a reason to choose one company over another if you have a choice , but I don't think its really fair to complain because they weren't going above and beyond. Sounds to me like the customer got exactly what they paid for on the terms they agreed to. If another company gives you a bonus, by all means, give them your business, but I don't think its fair to slander a company because they don't give out bonuses.


I didn't see anything slanderous about what was described by the original poster. All he posted was his experience.

In today's day and age, consumers are king and if businesses don't recognize it, then they will be relegated to the out of business column. Sounds like for this order, that the company lost sight of that. How many beeks have now read this thread. How many potential customers/orders has this company lost for 12 dollars.

I personnally can't stand doing business with companies who charge for expedited orders. Basically, it is stating that we'll let you cut in line in front of our other customers for a fee..... Wonderful customer service on two fronts. The current customer is feeling robbed and the other customers have no idea who has cut in line in front of them thus delaying the shipment of their order.


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## bigbearomaha

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

"the customer is always right" is a method of doing business that has helped create spoiled brat customers who instead of looking for a reasonable and fair business exchange, instead expect to have their rear ends polished by a business instead.

Sorry to tell you, but as both a business owner AND a customer, the customer is NOT always right.

a business has to watch it expenses and dealings just like any family has to or it won't be in business very long.

instead, we might learn a little bit about patience, better planning so we aren't finding ourselves in "I need it now!!" situations and keeping reasonable expectations.

In terms of communications, I don't email them so I have no idea how they do in that area. I pick up the phone and they always answer my calls and they always have time to answer my questions.

a business, large or small should always keep excellent communication though, regardless of size and they should be prepared to have a few customers that want that 'special attention' thrown in for the same nickel because those are just super special people who deserve more attention than everyone else. (NOT)

I don't think the OP was really bad mouthing BM, expecting timely communication is reasonable.

Big Bear


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## checotah

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I have been in business since 1982 and I can tell you the customer is your business and you must do the right thing. Respond to their questions, Ship when you say your going to ship, Answer their calls, and treat them with respect. These fine folks pay your bills. My complaint with Brushy is the just that the lack of respect for my business. You tell me you are going to ship in 5 to 7 days do so. If I email you a question about my shipment have the respect to answer the email. If your going to sell on the web update you system or upgrade it to make sure the inventory is accurate. It can be done I do it everyday. 

"Thank you for ordering from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm, Inc. Your web order #1916017 for $xxx.xx was received on 4/2/2010 at 9:25:59 PM EST. After your order is processed, in stock items are normally shipped in approximately 5-7 business days." 

When would you expect your delivery when you get this email from them?


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## ekervina

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



CentralPAguy said:


> I didn't see anything slanderous about what was described by the original poster. All he posted was his experience.


Thank you. I thought I had made clear that I think Brushy sells good products at a fair price and I'll probably deal with them again (they just won't be my first choice), but apparently not.

To address some of the other things that have been raised...

I checked the local hardware stores before ordering. I did not find any suitable wire. Perhaps other local beekeepers already bought up the local stock. 

I'm not sure how a $2 loss offset by a $10 gain for a net $8 gain vs. a $12 gain and a loss of some repeat business qualifies as expecting the business to do cartwheels. Like I mentioned, I've been a business owner before, and I've made those sorts of trade offs myself, very often resulting in increased business from the customer.

I remember (when studying customer service) reading that people who have uneventful transactions are likely to come back. But when a customer service interaction is required, leaving the customer happy is *extremely* likely to result in repeat business because the customer has confidence if anything goes wrong, it will be taken care of to his satisfaction. Sometimes you can't do that, because (contrary to what some say and as Big Bear points out) the customer is not always right. Sometimes the customer is solidly wrong. Certainly there is a point where the cost of satisfying the customer is more than it is worth, but I would venture that in most cases, that cost is somewhat above $2.

And though I did not characterize it as such, some seem to be suggesting that I was expecting immediate processing and shipping because I failed to plan ahead. That is not the case. In fact, I was ordering when I did because I was planning ahead. I was looking at items I would want four to six weeks from when I placed the order. The only reason I went with the expedited processing was I wanted to get the transaction over with because I didn't want to deal with any more snags. What if in two weeks a different item was out of stock? Then I would have had to run through the whole process again. Better to just get it over and done with, knowing this was going to be the only hitch.

So for those who aren't clear on what I'm saying, I'll repeat my points: I have no argument with Brushy Mountain's quality or prices. I am not telling anybody that they should not do business with them. I will likely at some point again do business with them myself. But for $2 they were willing to give up the opportunity to be my "go to" company when I need something. If/when I do order from them, it will only be for low-priority items, because I do not have confidence in their customer service when something goes wrong.


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## BeeCurious

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

ekervina,

I paid Dadant to speed up the shipping of a queen muff that I was going to need/want along with some other items. Having to pay to speed up an order is the result of two things: a beekeeping "emergency", or poor planning. For me, it was poor planning. And ultimately, paying additional to get an order out the door is a choice.

Question: Would you expect the grocery store to sell you two half gallons of milk for the same price as the gallon containers that are sold out? 

It was already nice that you were put on hold while she asked if a substitution could be made.

Automated emails and inventory systems is something else...


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## jsharum

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

i disagree...if your store was out of one gallon milks would you pay more for two half gallon milks? Also if you always shopped at that grocery store and never had to stand in line but for the last two week you were 10th in line would you keep shopping there? what if the manager told you they were short handed and had been all spring? Wouldnt your response either be to drop your milk right there and find a new place to shop or would you tell the manager to hire somone because thousands of Americans need jobs? 
Point is BW usually is great that this person got less than usual ship time...if they always took two weeks to get orders out thats one thing but this was unusual.


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## ekervina

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



BeeCurious said:


> Having to pay to speed up an order is the result of two things: a beekeeping "emergency", or poor planning.


I did not "have" to pay to speed up the order, and you are presenting a false dilemma when you say there are only two reasons to do so. As I explained, I _chose_ to pay to speed up the order because I wanted to avoid the potential for further complications two weeks down the road when they got around to actually processing my order in the warehouse.



> Question: Would you expect the grocery store to sell you two half gallons of milk for the same price as the gallon containers that are sold out?


False analogy. If I walk in to the grocery store and see they are out of the size of something I want, I expect to pay the marked prices for the sizes I select. _However_ when I placed my order with Brushy Mountain, I was led to believe the item I selected was in stock. If I went to a grocery store, made my selections, and then at the checkout was told I would not be allowed to purchase the gallon container of milk I had placed in my cart, then yes, I might well ask to be given two half-gallons at the same price. And if the request was refused, I would likely pay the marked prices for smaller containers. And then I would be less likely to shop there in the future.


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## jsharum

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



ekervina said:


> False analogy


I was actually agreeing with you...just didnt make myself clear enough...sorry LOL


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## HoneyBull

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I suppose in a community where there is only one or two grocery stores this is acceptable. But as a matter of fact I have had several grocery stores in my community do just "That" when they are sold out of an item, like a gallon of milk for instance, they will substitute two half gallons for the same advertised price. This is customer service and the act of doing buisness to secure the customers buisness. Will they lose a few cents on their cost for the milk? Sure, however they will retain their customer and recoup the cost in the future. Similarily there are hundreds of "online" shippers and suppliers of beekeeping equipment, the company should absolutely go out of their way to meet the needs of the customer, that will be a customer that will continue to come back time and time again "and" recommend, "and" write up good reviews, this only "increases" the companies buisness and profit. Doing cartwheels is a good buisness practice, especially in this economy. Just my input.


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## BeeCurious

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

If anyone is interested, I'm selling some deeply discounted beekeeper disappointment futures. PayPal is accepted.

*$100 of future disappointment for only $10.00 !!!!*

or $2.00


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## bennybee

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

I've owned several businesses all my life.I know how to treat customers right. I take care of them and they always come back. If it cost you a few bucks SO WHAT. The return customer is worth it. We are talking a few dollars here. What does lost orders cost? Do the math. By the way if you think your customers are spoiled brats Bigbearomaha and losing a few bucks is worth losing customers, Go for it. You must be young but you will learn. In beekeeping you have emergencies and need fast service and no I won't pay for it.


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## beehive

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

Let me say something about Walter Kelley Company. the order i placed was recived quick, they replied quick about the order and shipped very quick and have a high quality product. Absolutly no issue. it was my bad placing a order last fall so i could build and get my stuff built and setup early for this year. but after i placed my order the next day i saw a sale announced in the bee journels that i got in the mail that day for the sale later that month and it was not honered. so it was my bad for buying to quickly and being proactive.


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## Bsupplier

Thank You beehive. I remember now. Hope to keep you as a customer.


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## beehive

That sounds good, I will now put water kelley back on my first recomendation list for myself and for other beekeepers as supplier of choice.


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## oldenglish

Here are a couple of examples of "good" customer service from my local bee supply store (we were talking about this last night in the store) Pity they are selling up in a year or so, hope the new owners are as good.

1. Online order - for a treatment (forget which one) Customer calls to see when it will ship, owner appologises and explains that he is waiting for more to come in as the few he had left had gone past the sell by date, he offered to cancel the on line order and ship the expired stuff free of charge to get the guy by in the short term, product was still good as it was only a month expired and in a sealed package, customer agreed.

2. Customer bought a package of bees, went to install found queen dead, calls store, owner says stop by the store and we will have a new queen ready for you (this pertains to another complaint thread) NO YOU DONT NEED TO BRING THE DEAD QUEEN BACK WE TRUST YOU.

Owner stated to me that unless a customer gives a reason to not be trusted she has no problem taking folks at their word. There business is up 30%+ so far this year.

No big items here but when it comes to customers it's the small things that count.


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## MrJeff

That's a refreshing attitude from a retailer. What company was it?


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## oldenglish

Its just our local supply shop, http://beezneez.vstore.ca/


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## akbees

oldenglish said:


> Its just our local supply shop, http://beezneez.vstore.ca/


The Beez neez
I ordered from them also. They are a very small company so can definitely add the personal touch. I think it's good to keep things in perspective. I live so far away from everything, they hardly even ship to Alaska and we pay twice as much for shipping so you should live in my shoes. 

One thing I've learned over the last 50 years of my life is that people are less patient with each other, more demanding and not always very considerate.

I'm an ER nurse, sometimes 8 people come to check in sometimes 50, when 50 people are checking in I can't be the perfect nurse and people won't get the same care as when 8 people are checking in. That's just life.


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## devdog108

BigBearOmaha is a Brushy Mountain dealer now and wants to give personalized service. I just ordered the 9 frame radial extractor with storage tank from him.....for that reason alone.


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## bigbearomaha

bennybee,

did I SAY I think my customers are spoiled brats? no I did not. I said that these are times when there are many customers who are.

I never said I do not give exceptional service to my customers and I think that every one of them would tell you that.

you can read anything you like into a general comment, the fact remains that the "customer is always right" approach has contributed to many people having unrealistic expectations.


Big Bear


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## bennybee

OUCH! Your business stratagies and mine are different. No big deal.


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## Guest

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



checotah said:


> "Thank you for ordering from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm, Inc. Your web order #1916017 for $xxx.xx was received on 4/2/2010 at 9:25:59 PM EST. After your order is processed, in stock items are normally shipped in approximately 5-7 business days."
> 
> When would you expect your delivery when you get this email from them?


I'd start looking for it to arrive at the two week mark but wouldn't worry unless it hadn't shown up by the end of the third week.

5 to 7 business days (the "approximately" could extend this to two weeks) plus another week through the mail...on the outside I'd give it three weeks before I started to worry about it, longer if I knew there were holidays mixed in there or if it was being shipped over a longer distance...it can take 4 days or more for first class mail to make it across the country...if your order was packed late in the afternoon that might add an extra day.


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## devdog108

akbees said:


> One thing I've learned over the last 50 years of my life is that people are less patient with each other, more demanding and not always very considerate.
> that's just life.


WEll I agree and disagree....hows that...LOL. If you have 50 people coming in, you need to have the support for 50, even if they are doing other jobs at the time. The problem with todays society is that we are instant. Everyone wants everything instantly. People want to lose weight instantly. People want to stop smoking instantly, but rarely, and I mean rarely, do people want to do the hard work associated behind it. Sometimes to make people happy, you have to work harder and todays society doesnt like that. I have an example that just happened to me. 

I run an "ATM MAchine" company. It's only me,BUT, my job is truly to be a stay at home dad, and i do that on the side. I had a customer that needed ATM's inspected the other day before they shipped. Not just one or two, but 36. During the normal day...there was no way i could do it, and they were in a panick. I called and said hey...open the doors at midnight and I can dedicate at least 10.5 hrs to them. Thats all I can do....so they did and the mission got accomplished. It comes down to communication more than anything. People are panicky and Ignorant, but a person can be very reasonable. Dadant recently showed how compitent they were. I ordered 50 frames and 50 med wires foundation and a smoker from them. When the box arrived 2 weeks later....i had 50 med frames and 50 DEEP foundations. I called their main office and they were very nice and said no problem. Call the other office and they will get it straight. When i called the other office, the lady blamed me for ordering the wrong thing. Now, did she really think i didnt check that before hand. She was not nice at all about it. I said ma'am, i am looking at my order and i ordered mediums. SHe then said, well the other office got it wrong them, its their fault. I was like....seriously.....and was starting to get ticked at this point. She goes hold one....then was quiet, then came back and goes...well, it looks like it was an employees here fault and he will be written up for it. I said whoa...it was a mistake, no biggie. She said we will handle it and hung up. Now...do you reallly think im gonna let that happen. Ummmm....no. I even offerd to send back the unopened foundation. By the time i was done with them, they offered me all kinds of free stuff. I told them no...it was ok to make a mistake..but NOT for their employee to blame everyone else so she didnt look bad. I was nice and calm and still got freebies, plus a box of unopened deep foundation.

All this to say its the interaction with the customer that matter. No, they are NOT always right, but its how its dealt with from the beginning that makes all the difference in the world.......if they know you care, then they will be reasonable....


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## checotah

*Re: Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*



Bronk said:


> I'd start looking for it to arrive at the two week mark but wouldn't worry unless it hadn't shown up by the end of the third week.
> 
> 5 to 7 business days (the "approximately" could extend this to two weeks) plus another week through the mail...on the outside I'd give it three weeks before I started to worry about it, longer if I knew there were holidays mixed in there or if it was being shipped over a longer distance...it can take 4 days or more for first class mail to make it across the country...if your order was packed late in the afternoon that might add an extra day.[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree


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## BigDru

I have delt with Brushy Mountain several times. Even had a problem with my order and called. The customer service was great. I personally like Brushy mt and will continue to use them as good customer service means a lot to me. I only wish they were closer to me then they are.


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## CentralPAguy

devdog108 said:


> Everyone wants everything instantly..... Dadant recently showed how compitent they were. I ordered 50 frames and 50 med wires foundation and a smoker from them. When the box arrived 2 weeks later....i had 50 med frames and 50 DEEP foundations. I called their main office and they were very nice and said no problem. Call the other office and they will get it straight. When i called the other office, the lady blamed me for ordering the wrong thing. Now, did she really think i didnt check that before hand. Ummmm....no. I even offerd to send back the unopened foundation. By the time i was done with them, they offered me all kinds of free stuff. I told them no...it was ok to make a mistake..but NOT for their employee to blame everyone else so she didnt look bad. I was nice and calm and still got freebies, plus a box of unopened deep foundation.
> 
> All this to say its the interaction with the customer that matter. No, they are NOT always right, but its how its dealt with from the beginning that makes all the difference in the world.......if they know you care, then they will be reasonable....


The Pandora's Box has been opened and we do want things instantly, even if we don't plan for it. 

I have always gotten great service from one of the Dadant Virginia Office, well, I went to the New York Office as it looked like it was closer to me thus cheaper shipping.

I ordered 500 Shallow frames only to find out today when I went to assemble them that they were 500 Medium Frames. The trouble is that I don't have Mediums and don't want them in my inventory. So on Monday, I am going to call Dadant to ask why I got Medium Frames and how I can get the Shallow Frames that I ordered. 

I agree with you totally that most people want to do right and you certainly get more with honey than vinegar.


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## checotah

Ok well after a chatting with a young man with Brushy Mountain on Friday I was pleasantly surprised when I talked to some one other than Martha Sanchez. Come to find out there was problem with my order and it has been a problem all along. The young man took 2 minutes to check my order found the problem, fixed it and got it shipped, and all I every got from Martha was we are behind and will get it out as soon as we can. I may have been wrong about the company it may have been just the person I was dealing with and not the company at all. I will admit when I am wrong and I very well could have been.


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## heaflaw

I've ordered mostly from BM and have always been very satisfied. Kelley's has been good, too. I have always come away with the impression that I could "talk with" the people at BM and Kelly's. With Dadant and Mann Lake I've felt like I was just a number instead of a person.


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## BeeCurious

I think it was nice that the title of this posting was changed from:

*Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*

to simply "Interaction with Brushy Mountain".

What I don't like about this posting is that it reminds me of the short boxes I received from Betterbee... I sit on one of them while painting bee equipment that I make. I'm going to ask them for some suggestion as to what I might be able to do with them. Perhaps I could make lamps out of them or cut an end off of them, buy the hardware, and build drawers out of them. I could use it as a night stand...

If you don't like the reception you get at Dadant and MannLake don't bother calling Betterbee. But, on the otherhand, call BB and tell them that the guy with the short medium boxes sent you...


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## honeydreams

I had one problem with Brushy mountain and they made it right and then some. They are a great company.


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## palmerbee1629

BeeCurious said:


> I think it was nice that the title of this posting was changed from:
> 
> *Disappointing interaction with Brushy Mountain*
> 
> to simply "Interaction with Brushy Mountain".
> 
> What I don't like about this posting is that it reminds me of the short boxes I received from Betterbee... I sit on one of them while painting bee equipment that I make. I'm going to ask them for some suggestion as to what I might be able to do with them. Perhaps I could make lamps out of them or cut an end off of them, buy the hardware, and build drawers out of them. I could use it as a night stand...
> 
> If you don't like the reception you get at Dadant and MannLake don't bother calling Betterbee. But, on the otherhand, call BB and tell them that the guy with the short medium boxes sent you...


Did you call them within the thirty day timeline of the order? Most companies have a 30 day return policy. I had a problem with a Dadant order once and I called right away, I had to pay a restocking fee but it resolved itself. Same with Mann Lake, except with them I called them four months later. The later couldn't do anything about it because I waited so long to inform them.


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## BeeCurious

*Interaction with Betterbee*

The order was placed in February so when I put the boxes together two month later I was already beyond the 30 days... They wanted me to pay to send the assembled boxes back, and that wasn't happening.

I actually called them yesterday because it's not a satisfactory ending for that story for either of us.

Betterbee's frames are 1/16" longer than my Kelley frames, and my frames won't go into the boxes. I was asked to take some pictures of measurements and email them. Out of 18 boxes I would guess that about half are short. A partial credit for each of the short boxes would be nice. I dropped the issue in the beginning but when I saw that so many people were supporting someone over an imaginary $2.00 loss I had to call.


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## pinecat

I just canceled a small order (50 sheets of foundation) with Brushy. 8 days after submitting the order they still haven't filled it, said that they wouldn't be shipping it until 5 days from now, last week they said they would be shipping it late this week. I canceled the order and put it in with Kelley's. At least they said they would be shipping tomorrow. Be careful with Brushy right now, they are very busy.
Matt


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## Bsupplier

As a manufacturing company, we don't need to wait to have our wax shipped to us. We are making our wax foundations daily in our wax house. Because of our custom equipment (built on site) and our unique processes, we believe we have the finest wax foundation in the world. Currently we are shipping next day, on orders of in stock items. You will never be asked to pay extra to have a order rushed. If you have an emergency, (such as a swarm in a cardboard box) and are in need of an item, we will mark it rush and it will be batched with the current days orders. Shipping will cull rushes because of their unique nature and prioritize them. We believe this is the fair thing to do.
This is built on 86 years of serving beekeepers.
Thank You,
Walter T. Kelley Co.


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## buzn bee

i had the same problem with b m before thay have built there operration biger i donot see where thay should have a problems any way i buy most of my thing now from miller bee supply thay are very nice to me and thay do what thay say order has always been on time i have meet them and thay are very nice give them a call and see


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## oldenglish

I am pretty sure that if asked you could find at least one person who has had an experience they did not like with just about every single company out there. Our local store has a small on line catalog, here are a few things we have noticed.

1. Clearly states package bees are in store pickup only. They recieved orders from Texas, florida, new york & canada just to name a few.

2. Clearly states that shipping cost is calculated seperatley so they can get you the best deal, and you will be notified before credit card is run. Had one lady absolutley horrified that is was not free shipping.

3. Clearly states closed Sun/Mon and that in April processing orders can take longer than usual due to volume of orders. Somebody placed an order online on Monday then called tuesday complaining that she had not been notified if it was ready for pickup on wednesday, the order included package bees that were listed as out of stock but call store just in case. We were able to get everything ready for her including bees but she got real lucky.

I guess the trouble with "Clearly States" is the store owner assumes the customer will actually ready about the product they are ordering :scratch:


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## Dubhe

Outside of the Spring rush, I've always found Brushy's products & service to be excellent. I placed 2 orders this March & both took weeks to ship out. Actually I think they forgot about me. One phone call and they made it all right. Incidentally, an order to Betterbee fared little better.

As far as I'm concerned, I should plan better and order earlier. Plus, their December free shipping promotion gets them my goodwill & patience all year long.


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## summer1052

I kinda see both sides of this. I've worked retail for many years, and firmly believed the adage should say, " the customer is always right . . . handed." Sometimes there are just people who are having a bad day and want to spread that love. Being a people myself, I know it's hard sometimes to keep a smile on and be nice when I feel like crud. It goes both ways.

However, I also think that "volume" has a lot to do with the quality of customer service, coming and going. The volume of your voice, the volume of calls they are receiving, the volume of the shop noise behind you while you are answering a never-stop-ringing-phone all wear on you. If it's that busy, you need more people. Period.

I have had ok, but not great service from Kelley, ok, but they tried to help service from Rossman. I had a problem with delivery on a Dadant order, but that was the fault of the trucking company they subbed out to, and Dadant made it right and took a (solid) hit and refunded my shipping. AND, they took steps to see that it did not happen again. :applause:

I once called BM off season to get more detailed info about a product from them, and was given a lot of crap for it. When I explained that I wanted to know about it before hand, they said I should just buy it, and if it didn't work, return it, and what was the big deal? I asked what the return policies were, and as stated, they did not match said advice from the employee. I asked to speak to a supervisor, and they hung up on me. Red headed Irish, you can imagine I took THAT really well.


Mann Lake had been good to me, as has Betterbee. But I want something in the BM catalog that no one else has, and it's a bummer. I don't know if I want to business with them or not. I understand having a bad day, but if you hang up on me off season, you are obviously doing very well without my help. I have also noticed no one from BM has posted here (unless I missed it, mea culpa) to comment that they were having a bad day and would make it right.

Summary: Customers and businesses, we all have bad days, and once in a while they intersect. But habits and patterns need to be changed. If every business you deal with gives you yucky service, the problem may be in your mirror. If every customer is a problem, the common denominator may be you. If both are happening, break out the wine and chocolate and wait for the planets to re align. opcorn:

 Summer


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## kathygibson

I've ordered from Brushy Mountain several times. I've always received a "reasonably" timely shipment. When an item was not available, I have also received email notice from them, so that my expectations were correctly set. I have also been consistently pleased with the quality of their products....not something I can always say about other suppliers I've dealt with. Phone support is timely and knowledgeable.


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## mythomane

Always was happy with Brushy in the past, but they are "expanding" -- and not hiring any new help. The phone is busy half the time, and the salespeople seem overwhelmed. They are also out of stock on many things, but they will happily bill you for something immediately. They even double billed me for something that was on back-order, and then added a few extra 2$ charges for added measure. Not happy at all with them this year.


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## hpm08161947

mythomane said:


> Always was happy with Brushy in the past, but they are "expanding" -- and not hiring any new help..


Yea I think that is what is going on. I can not deal with the Out of Stock situation so I have taken my business down the road to Miller Bee Supply who seems to have much better prices and always seems to have it in stock + they ship out fast.

https://millerbeesupply.com/about-us/info_1.html


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## Skinner Apiaries

hpm08161947 said:


> Yea I think that is what is going on. I can not deal with the Out of Stock situation so I have taken my business down the road to Miller Bee Supply who seems to have much better prices and always seems to have it in stock + they ship out fast.
> 
> https://millerbeesupply.com/about-us/info_1.html


Kudos to that.:thumbsup:


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## devdog108

Has anyone told BM??? Just curious to see their reaction. I see that Kelley's is paying attention...Now if only KELLEYS WOULD DROP THEIR SHIPPING costs a bit!!!


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## mdaniels

I placed an order this week with Miller Bee and it seems they shipped it the next day. UPS tracker says its scheduled for a Monday delivery. Interestingly enough, they were out of one small item and both emailed and phoned me to ask if they should ship or wait for the item.

I was very pleased.


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## hpm08161947

We drove up to Miller - about 4.5 hours from here - we arrived about an hour after their closing. They waited for us and helped load and strap a flatbed with our supplies. I was impressed!


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## honeybee1

I'm always amazed when I go to Brushy they handle an enormous amount of product and as fast as the bee industry is growing they seem to be about like everyone else they keep up as long as they can. I think they do a great job considering I normally want my stuff yesterday.


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## honeybee1

*Re: Millers*

Hey Millers is doing a good job these days as well. I'm glad to see they have a new building they deserve it.


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## mythomane

After ordering from them for years I gave them another chance Wednesday. They said they had 40 feeders in stock. I said great. Charged me $10.00 rush fee, which I am always happy to pay for shipping out Friday. Call on Friday says they do not have feeders, and they will have to build them. Now another 2 weeks before I see the product. They just do not have any control of their own inventory. Just going to build my own this winter. Lost Time = Lost Money.


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## 11x

just had to cancel a order from burshy mountain. 9 days and still hadent been packed to ship. was honey sticks,candy, and 20 bottles for honey. should have that stuff in stock so i dont see the problem


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## BeeCurious

I recently had an issue concerning some BM frames. I told them about the issue so they could take steps to avoid it in the future. They issued a credit for the frames that had the defect. :thumbsup:


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## hpm08161947

I ordered Beego from them last week..... said IN STOCK ..... just got an email said OUT of STOCK.... Dang! Whats going on.... is there nothing at their facility?


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## mythomane

Finally received those feeders. The epoxy after a week is still tacky. I can smell them from the porch. I do not think I can even use them. Smells like a model airplane exploded. Guess thats what I get for a rush job -- they sent them 10 days late and still charged me the extra fee.


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## Mike Snodgrass

mythomane said:


> Finally received those feeders. The epoxy after a week is still tacky. I can smell them from the porch. I do not think I can even use them. Smells like a model airplane exploded. Guess thats what I get for a rush job -- they sent them 10 days late and still charged me the extra fee.


Sounds like someone who forgot who pays their bills!! The customer pays your bills!!! I wouldnt send them any more bill paying money!! I am absolutely certain that with very little effort you could find someone else who still respects who pays their bills!!!


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## Soupy944

i just ordered a bunch of stuff from them 2 weeks ago. i was told it would ship in a week to a week and a half. it was on my doorstep 5 days later. i am happy with them.


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