# Canvas inner cover



## Grins (May 24, 2016)

Good question! The Honey Bee Research Center at the University of Guelph uses canvas inner covers extensively. I look forward to the discussion and hearing from those who have used both.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnjjULpVsDM


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Cheaper. 
And they can move along the sides of the frame, so restricting movement over the top bars isn't a big deal. I used some cut-up woven poly feedbags. They work OK. Canvas might be a better choice, though. 
Inner covers are expensive.


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## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

Does the same job one is ridged one is light and flexible 2 benefits right there some use poly feed bags as long as it keeps out cover from sticking 
Bees probably have a harder time passing unDer it and over top bars compared to a rimmed wood inner cover but I'm sure they do here and there


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## BigBlackBirds (Aug 26, 2011)

jwcarlson said:


> Cheaper.
> Inner covers are expensive.


And they have about the shortest life expectancy of any piece of bee equipment I can think of. They are usually partially broken in short order.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

I kinda like that idea of canvas dipped or un dipped. Looks alot easier to make anyway.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Why would you want it dipped? Or think it needs to be? The bees will coat it on the inside as necessary. 
Just curious.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

jwcarlson said:


> Cheaper.
> And they can move along the sides of the frame, so restricting movement over the top bars isn't a big deal.


My bees build burcomb between the top bars and the bag, creating channels they can travel within.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Michael Palmer said:


> My bees build burcomb between the top bars and the bag, creating channels they can travel within.


I could see that being the case. Do you still use many bags, Michael?


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> Why would you want it dipped? Or think it needs to be? The bees will coat it on the inside as necessary.
> Just curious.


No it doesn't have to be dipped. But wouldn't you think it would repel water vs soaking it up. Im sure your right after awhile it will get coated thats why i probably wont waste the beeswax on that. I can think of better uses with the wax.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

All my mating nucs have bags.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Michael P
Does the bur comb affect feeding? Do You even feed mating nucs? I had the polly bags on some traps for an inner cover. I know if you cut them they fray badly. Any thing stiking out of the hive ends up being just strings. I am thinking about sewing up any edge that has been cut if I keep using them. I was scared that the plastic of them might hurt the bees and wonder if I am thinking of the right bag. I get cracked corn in them. 

Cheers


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## patncin (Jun 10, 2016)

I can't find polly bags any where here unless you buy seed and I need a lot of bags not seed were can you get them in bulk?


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Has anyone tried 4or 6 mil plastic such as used for painters drop clothes?


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Fabric store has duck canvas. Like carhart coats. I think ill get a couple yards and try it. I wonder if it would hold the heat in better? You know kinda like a blanket.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

gww said:


> Michael P
> Does the bur comb affect feeding? Do You even feed mating nucs?


Not really. I do feed if needed, with an internal feeder or gallon cans on the bag...cut a hole in the bag. What the bur comb does do is allow crossover between mating nucs in the 4-ways. We keep it trimmed down to prevent open channels.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Michael P
I understand the process better now, thank you for your answer.
gww


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## ron manos (Aug 24, 2016)

i was thinking of using canvas but i thought it would give shb a place to hide.


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## NorthMaine (Oct 27, 2016)

AR Beekeeper said:


> Has anyone tried 4or 6 mil plastic such as used for painters drop clothes?


Check out this guy's vids. From the vid, you can see a bit of the advantage of using plastic, being able to peek in not so friendly weather, question is do the pros outweigh the cons?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdPT_8bP8eI


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

AR Beekeeper said:


> Has anyone tried 4or 6 mil plastic such as used for painters drop clothes?


I wouldn't use a solid piece of plastic. It doesnt breath. It will collect moisture i bet. Wouldnt do it.


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## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

I go thru a bag everyother day in horse and cow feed try some farms to find some


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## Swarmhunter (Mar 5, 2015)

I'm confused about why anybody would use a material porous or not on top of a hive in the winter? Doesn't it get soggy and trap moisture down in the hive body? I can see maybe in the summer to cover a double Nuc . I don't see any advantage. Cheaper? :s


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

One advantage, canvas can be rolled back just 1 or 2 frames at a time when inspecting, minimizing disturbance to the bees. 

Canvas is woven in a specific pattern to minimize wicking. That's what makes it so useful for tents and tarps. I can see it's uses as an inner cover, but I would be careful not to allow any portion of it to be exposed to weather. But if it is used like a wooden inner cover with a telescopic outer cover, I don't see how it would be a problem. Other fabric weaves may be more prone to wicking. Muslin for example, would make a great temporary cover while the top is off, but is more efficient at wicking, so I personally would not use it as an inner cover.


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## paintingpreacher (Jul 29, 2006)

Back in the 80's we used scraps of linoleum for inner covers. Cut to fit with a knife and cut a hole in the center for ventilation. Had no problems with it. Don't know why we changed to the wooden inner covers?


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## AJ Farms (Nov 22, 2011)

What Paul Kelly and the honeybee research centre at U Of GUELPH uses is actually a canvas plastic coated painters drop cloth. It comes in a 8x12 sheet it's comparable to the grain bags but slightly heavier pressing down on the top bars more.


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## Cedar Hill (Jan 27, 2009)

I've been using plastic inner covers for 40 years. Best investment I ever made. OMTCW
Plastic Inner Covers
Model #: 51A
Tired of replacing rotted inner covers? Try our Plastic Inner Covers! They are molded with two wedges that sit on the top bars to prevent sagging. Vents allow moisture to escape. Available in 10-Frame only. Proudly made in the USA. Kelly's


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

AJ Farms said:


> What Paul Kelly and the honeybee research centre at U Of GUELPH uses is actually a canvas plastic coated painters drop cloth. It comes in a 8x12 sheet it's comparable to the grain bags but slightly heavier pressing down on the top bars more.


AJ, thanks for that info. Does this plastic coated canvas breathe?


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Grins said:


> AJ, thanks for that info. Does this plastic coated canvas breathe?


Since it is a woven cloth im pretty sure it would.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

AJ Farms said:


> What Paul Kelly and the honeybee research centre at U Of GUELPH uses is actually a canvas plastic coated painters drop cloth. It comes in a 8x12 sheet it's comparable to the grain bags but slightly heavier pressing down on the top bars more.


Any idea of where to get one?


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> Any idea of where to get one?


Hobby shop, fabric store, painter supply store ???
That's my guess.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> Any idea of where to get one?


https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-9-Feet-12-Feet-Polycoated-CDC912/dp/B000ICPMTO


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> Any idea of where to get one?


I hope I'm not violating any rules here. Here is the drop cloth AJ describes, they are much cheaper without the plastic coating but if I'm reading the info correctly the coating helps them lay flat. This is a 48" x 48" drop cloth.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EKM6CDC/ref=abs_brd_tag_dp?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Edit: JW's is cheaper, lots cheaper.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Better hurry only 19 left. 

Ill just use plain canvas its 5 bucks a sq yard


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2004)

I've been using feed bags for 15-20 years and would not consider going back to inner covers. I get them from Agway. Less than $2 each. They have two sizes, one for 50 lbs of feed and one for 80 lbs. I use the larger.


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## erikebrown (Oct 27, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> I've been using feed bags for 15-20 years and would not consider going back to inner covers. I get them from Agway. Less than $2 each. They have two sizes, one for 50 lbs of feed and one for 80 lbs. I use the larger.


Can you post pictures? I am interested in seeing what these look like on the hive.

Thanks!


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Grins said:


> AJ, thanks for that info. Does this plastic coated canvas breathe?


The UofG drills upper entrances in their brood boxes for ventilation.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

patncin said:


> I can't find polly bags any where here unless you buy seed and I need a lot of bags not seed were can you get them in bulk?


 Is there a Feed Mill near where you live? Go there and see if they will sell you some feed sacks. Or follow a Farmer home and see if they will give them to you.

My friend Jon uses tar paper. Many years ago, about 20, he and I were on our way to southern Florida with our hives. Jon spotted an Army Surplus Store. He pulled his truck and trailer over as quickly as he could. We walked back to the Army Surplus where Jon bought an Army Tent. When we got to Moorehaven, where we set off the hives in a couple yards, when cut that tent up into "inner covers". All of Jon's hives have flat plywood covers with a hole the size of a pint canning jar lid, the same size as a 5 lb honey jar cap. So when that hole doesn't need to be exposed so bees can feed from his syrup buckets he likes to have something closing that hole off from the inside of the hive.

Canvas holds up better than tar paper when you take it off and use it again. Don't ask me why he doesn't use the canvas anymore.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

ron manos said:


> i was thinking of using canvas but i thought it would give shb a place to hide.


 It does. But it also gives bees a place to make shb corrals, so if you tear off the canvas quickly you might have a chance to give the shb a hive tool test.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

Grins said:


> Good question! The Honey Bee Research Center at the University of Guelph uses canvas inner covers extensively. I look forward to the discussion and hearing from those who have used both.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnjjULpVsDM


I watched these a while ago. They never seem to clean the burr comb off the top of the frames . This height automatically gives room for the bees to travel over the top of frames at will. Any time they lift the cover there are lots of bees on the cover and the top of the frames. They never scrape the top of frames when moving from hives to nukes to mini nukes.


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## Don Warren (Mar 5, 2016)

I also plan to try some canvas inner covers after watching the UoG videos. I also wanted to save some money on inner covers after purchasing about 75 boxes from Albert Zook. I read Charles Dadant's book "The Dadant System Of Beekeeping" where they used oilcloth for inner covers. I'm going to try some oilcloth inner covers as well. You can buy oilcloth from denverfabrics.com ($5/yd) or i think you can buy it at Walmart.


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## AJ Farms (Nov 22, 2011)

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> Any idea of where to get one?


I have seen them on Amazon. I'm sure Home Depot or lowes would have them. We have a store called Canadian Tire that is where I've seen them although not sure where Paul Kelly gets them


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## Marcin (Jun 15, 2011)

Has anyone used burlap as an inner cover?


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## chazman (Dec 2, 2010)

Dont forget these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-ft-x-12-ft-canvas-dropcloth-38108.html

They go on sale all the time for even cheaper, and the coupon can cut 20-25%.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

chazman said:


> Dont forget these:
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/4-ft-x-12-ft-canvas-dropcloth-38108.html
> 
> They go on sale all the time for even cheaper, and the coupon can cut 20-25%.


I was going to go get my canvas at the fabric store but this seems to be a better price.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm thinking of recycling Domino's Sugar 25 lb bags for inner covers of 8 frame or NUCs when I run out of inner covers. Would only use in the summer. I use quilt boxes for wintering. I try and buy all my sugar in 25 pound bags because it's easy to handle and mix in that quantity. I saved all my bags from last year, so will give it a try.

PAHunter62


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have never owned an inner cover but a few years ago started using the material now replacing tar paper on roofs. Got scraps from roofers doing my house. Typar r tyvek house wrap would work well too. Probably the most important use is over MC sugar in feeder rims to keep the bees from hanging off he homosote/soundboard cover and in the comb where they need to be.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

Many folks here put screen over both the whole and notch of the inner cover for ventilation lthat does not let moths and beetles.in. 

I can see duct taking a screen in place over a center hole in canvas or a feed bag but how would one replace the ventilation notch.


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## gunter62 (Feb 13, 2011)

I use dog food bags. Didn't take long to gather all I could need for years.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

I just bought the painters drop cloth with the butyl backing. Well the backing is just a piece of plastic sewn on the sides of the cloth. It will come off once i cut it. Vodnt tell that it was like that it was folded up. Anyway i got my canvas. It was only $6.99


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## patncin (Jun 10, 2016)

how about a harborfreight plastic tarp I think you can get a5x7 for 2.00 does any one use them?


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I am trying 4 mil plastic sheeting, I don't think it will be a problem causing moisture any more than an inner cover made of wood. I don't use an upper entrance for ventilation so the only drawback will be when I feed through the top of the hive, then it will need to be removed.

How long it will last without tearing when the bees propolise it down remains to be seen.


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## Hoot (Jun 2, 2016)

I love the time saved not making inner covers. I'll be visiting the local Amish wall-mart soon for canvas. 

It looks like from the Uo Guelph videos the canvas overlaps the hive edge by around 1/2 inch. Any first hand specs anyone?
Hoot


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

what do you all who use canvas do for top ventalation. if a telescoping cover is directly onthe edge of the box how does air flow from top of ?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have a one inch hole bored in all my upper hive bodies right below the hand hold. This acts as the upper entrance/ ventilation quite adequately. Have done it successfully for many years.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

When they put a new one it seems really thick. Makes a slapping noise when applied. 16wt, 18wt any ideas?


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Frogpondwarrior - I contacted UoG Honey Bee Research Centre - they replied:

"We use 18 oz canvas - otherwise known as duck. I think it can be graded by number too (#8)."

PAHunter62


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## erikebrown (Oct 27, 2014)

PAHunter62 said:


> I contacted UoG Honey Bee Research Centre - they replied:
> 
> "We use 18 oz canvas - otherwise known as duck. I think it can be graded by number too (#8)."


Like this? http://www.bigduckcanvas.com/number-8-18oz-cotton-duck-canvas.html


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

No one with top entrances uses this bag method right? I'm sick of mice and converting some to just top entrances to see if I like it. Still have some reading to do


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Duck canvas is $5.99 a sq ft at the fabric store.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Marcin said:


> Has anyone used burlap as an inner cover?


Not good. The bags get stuck to the bur comb and propolis and when you pull them off the strings pull out of the bag and are left on the top bars.Makes a mess.


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

I use a sheet of Reflectix cut from a roll:

https://www.amazon.com/Reflectix-BP24025-24-Inch-25-Feet-Insulation/dp/B0022NH3E4

You can find it at the big box stores as well. It works out to a couple of dollars per hive. I cut it about half an inch shirt in the front so the bees can vent. It functions as the first layer if I sulation as well, under a 1" sheet of rigid pink foam insulation. 

I used to use grain bags but the plastic would degrade and the weave disintegrate and make a mess.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I also use a sheet of Reflectix as inner covers.
It keeps a good seal uptop, no drafts, and provides a bit of needed insulation uptop which helps cool wet spring condensation problems
I have a feed hole cut in the centre which the bees use to stick the top down with wax and keeps the wind from blowing tops off. After we start feeding in fall tops are no longer lifted and everything gets glued down. Very little top blow off during hive movement


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Mr Thompson do the bees chew the reflectix up to make entrances ever?


Ian said:


> I also use a sheet of Reflectix as inner covers.
> It keeps a good seal uptop, no drafts, and provides a bit of needed insulation uptop which helps cool wet spring condensation problems
> I have a feed hole cut in the centre which the bees use to stick the top down with wax and keeps the wind from blowing tops off. After we start feeding in fall tops are no longer lifted and everything gets glued down. Very little top blow off during hive movement


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

No, chewing is minimal, I leave them on year round


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Ok i just went to joanns fabrics and bought 2 yrds of #10 canvas. Its a little lighter than #8. Looks good. Excited to start using it. It was on sale for $6.99 a yrd.


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## Hoot (Jun 2, 2016)

I found that the reflectix as a inner cover collected condensation way too much. So while assembling my top covers, I decided to sandwich the reflectix between the flashing and the wooden top cover. So it is permanently inside the top cover. In summer it cools the heat from top, in winter it adds to the hive roof R-value.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Billboard said:


> Ok i just went to joanns fabrics and bought 2 yrds of #10 canvas. Its a little lighter than #8. Looks good. Excited to start using it. It was on sale for $6.99 a yrd.


Canvas tarps go on sale "dirt cheap" from time to time. I think I've got two in my garage right now that were about $6-7 each from either Harbor Freight or Sears maybe. I think I'll cut them up for inner covers.


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## Marcin (Jun 15, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> Not good. The bags get stuck to the bur comb and propolis and when you pull them off the strings pull out of the bag and are left on the top bars.Makes a mess.


Thanks Michael.
Actually thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. Good info to have, not something that you can pick up from a book.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

If anyone has a picture of a canvas inner cover, I sure would like to see it.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

psm1212 - You can see it here on YouTube - The entry of the video, and again @ 2:10 when he opens the hive.

I had messaged them on the topic and they stated that bees will chew holes in lighter canvas over time.

https://youtu.be/BnjjULpVsDM

PAHunter62


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Thanks PA Hunter. So is bee space kept between the top bars and the inner cover? I thought the canvas would sag to the top bars, forcing the bees to the sides and below.


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## erikebrown (Oct 27, 2014)

psm1212 said:


> Thanks PA Hunter. So is bee space kept between the top bars and the inner cover? I thought the canvas would sag to the top bars, forcing the bees to the sides and below.


PSM, this discussion also happened earlier in this thread. Read the first dozen or so posts and you get the pictures and the overview, as well as this question.

Erik


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm definitely interested in trying something besides wooden inner covers. They're a PITA to make. 

One question..... How in the world do you get fabric or souped up bubble wrap pieces off the top of the hive? My super propolizing bees would have those glued down like superglue.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You peal off the covers


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

gww said:


> Michael P
> Does the bur comb affect feeding? Do You even feed mating nucs? I had the polly bags on some traps for an inner cover. I know if you cut them they fray badly. Any thing stiking out of the hive ends up being just strings. I am thinking about sewing up any edge that has been cut if I keep using them. I was scared that the plastic of them might hurt the bees and wonder if I am thinking of the right bag. I get cracked corn in them.
> 
> Cheers


I use the woven feed bags and I cut them with the little torch I use to light the smoker with. It melts the cut together.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Ian said:


> You peal off the covers


You let them hang over the sides a little or cut to exact fit?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Brad Bee said:


> You let them hang over the sides a little or cut to exact fit?


I leave 1/4" overhang all around the top
Give or take, we cut those reflective bubble wraps pretty quick. I'm just looking for a good seal around the top


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

BigBlackBirds said:


> > Originally Posted by jwcarlson
> >
> > Inner covers are expensive.
> 
> ...


How d'ya manage that? Not happening here.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

I just cut some covers from the 2 yrds of canvas i bought. I got 5 nuc covers four 8 frame covers and two 10 frame covers and still have a nice size piece left for whatever i need. I cut them about a quarter inch bigger than the boxes.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Building supply stores have typar or tyvek if you can get a small enough quantity or the reflectix aluminum faced insulation comes in rolls and I think I am going to start using that.


patncin said:


> I can't find polly bags any where here unless you buy seed and I need a lot of bags not seed were can you get them in bulk?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

My tops are sealed tight to keep in heat and the hole in the upper brood box right below the handhold takes care of ventilation needs.


Swarmhunter said:


> I'm confused about why anybody would use a material porous or not on top of a hive in the winter? Doesn't it get soggy and trap moisture down in the hive body? I can see maybe in the summer to cover a double Nuc . I don't see any advantage. Cheaper? :s


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## Don Warren (Mar 5, 2016)

after watching the UoG videos on youtube, I bought a couple of yards of heavy canvas to use for inner covers on some new hives that i hope to fill this spring. I also read Charles Dadant's book "The Dadant System of Beekeeping", where they used (100 years ago), oilcloth for inner covers. the slick side i'm guessing went down ?, so that it would easily peel off of the top of the frames? i plan of trying a few oilcloth inner covers as well. (i believe that quite often, "the old school is the best school"). has anyone else tried oilcloth?


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

I am using feed sacks. They unfortunately lack an UV inhibitor. You get a couples of years use and they disintegrate. I would try barn curtain material if I had some that was new. This is a heavier material that does contain a UV inhibitor. It is used as a roll up curtain on poultry houses, for hogs and dairy barns. I get about 10 years service from it even when exposed.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Talking of old, I think abby warre used burlap but he put a flower paste on it first.
Cheers
gww


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

One source online for 18 oz Canvas/Duck Cloth is Sailrite ...

http://www.sailrite.com/Cotton-Duck-8-Off-White-18oz-60

They don't kill you on shipping. I picked up some to try.

PAHunter62


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