# Honey bees - Livestock or not?



## PaulT (Sep 2, 2015)

I am planning to downsize and build on a lot in an urban, subdivision setting. the county and city allow beekeeping but the covenants for the subdivision do not allow "livestock" to be kept on the properties.
Are bees considered livestock in the legal world?
We may change our plans if we can't keep a few hives on our property and we are about a day away from signing.
Thanks in advance for the feedback.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Honeybees are considered livestock by the USDA.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is a case where the county says bees are livestock:
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/man-told-get-rid-bees-because-they-are-livestock/241640896

This page shows Code of Federal Regulations definitions that apply to Federal crop loss insurance:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/7/760.204

While that CFR page does not _explicitly_ define bees as livestock, they are treated very similarly.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Dup. post.

Enj.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I'd bet you'll run afoul of the HOA over keeping bees at some point, just because that's the way it goes. While your local government allows it, what the HOA will accept (at various points) is a whole 'nother thing. If having bees is a deal breaker for you, get the OK in writing from the HOA before signing, or make the contract contigent on approval by the HOA while you are in escrow. (That way the seller who wants the contract to go forward can help you get approval frm the HOA.)

Keeping your apiary to just a "few hives" is hard to do. I started with 3 in 2013 and I have 14 now, and that's with deliberately keeping my hive number increases to the smallest I can manage. Luckily for me I live on a large farm, so it doesn't matter. In an urban subdivision setting I think it would be much more difficult.

And, yes I think bees are livestock: i.e. animals kept for use in food or fiber production.

Enj.


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## PaulT (Sep 2, 2015)

Sounds like technically I'm screwed. Fortunately I am not very technical so I think I will pursue the build, put in a 6' fence around the back yard and bring the girls in on a cloudy night. If justice prevails I have a rural location to relocate them too, just don't want to.
Thanks for all the feedback. Maybe I can teach them to meow and call them kittens?


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

While all the above are true, a HOA committee, and/or President's _opinion_ is usually the deciding factor in what is allowable in a HOA. Those little demagogues have ruined many what could have been pleasant neighborhoods. 

I wouldn't live in a HOA if you bought the place for me and paid the membership fees.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

It may depend on who you ask.

Camouflage paint your hives to blend. There is never a reason why anyone needs to see them. If they say you can't then move them at that time.


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## Chester5731 (Jan 11, 2016)

Tell them you will move your livestock when they help put in the ear tags to identify them.


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here is a case where the county says bees are livestock:
> http://www.wsbtv.com/news/man-told-get-rid-bees-because-they-are-livestock/241640896


You should have shared the rest of the story - Yes, the county said, "The county unified development code defines livestock as domesticated animals for profit or personal use. Based on this, beekeeping is prohibited in residential zoning districts."

What happened after that was that the county moved that bees be excluded from the definition of livestock and that beekeeping be allowed in all zoning districts in Forsyth County.


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

read your hoa covenants, you could get massive fines levied against you. 
just building a fence without permission could get you in big trouble.
read the fine print, hoa have rights that supersede yours.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Tenpin said:


> You should have shared the rest of the story - Yes, the county said, "The county unified development code defines livestock as domesticated animals for profit or personal use. Based on this, beekeeping is prohibited in residential zoning districts."
> 
> What happened after that was that the county moved that bees be excluded from the definition of livestock and that beekeeping be allowed in all zoning districts in Forsyth County.


I'm not quite sure how you think I should have known that the definition was *later* changed! 

However, now that you have suggested that possibility, here is a copy of Forsyth County GA Unified Development Code, that does indeed _now_ permit apiaries in *ALL* zoning districts in Forsyth County GA : 
http://www.forsythco.com/Portals/0/Documents/CommunityDevelopment/UDC/UDC Complete.pdf

There are 6 references to apiaries in various parts of the document, so after the PDF loads, with most browsers "Control F" will allow one to perform a search of the document, and using the search term of "apiaries" shows the details.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

It doesn't seem like a good idea to plan to move into a HOA with the intentions of not following their rules right from the beginning. If you are planning to build can't you find property that isn't in an HOA?


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. If beekeeping is important to you, buy elsewhere. I'd rather deal with the neighbor who won't mow his lawn....oh wait, I am that neighbor.


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

Livestock refers to one or more domesticated animals raised in an agricultural setting to produce commodities such as food, fiber and labor. Animals are ‘domesticated’ when their breeding and living conditions are controlled by humans.

What is interesting is that on one hand one could say that honeybees, because they produce food and we control their breeding and living conditions are "domesticated" and therefore livestock (that's a stretch). On the other hand, there is no discernible difference between bees from the local apiary and the bees that live in the hollow oak down the road which certainly aren't domesticated or livestock.

Bees have not exactly been domesticated: but we manage them, by providing them with hives so we can more easily benefit from them. 

Here's a fun read: https://books.google.com/books?id=d...v=onepage&q=bees are not domesticated&f=false


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Sounds like heartache in the making. Down sizing doesn't mean you have to live in a HOA. You can still buy a small piece of property just outside of town build a small house and keep your bees in peace. Sure you can probably put up a privacy fence and keep the bees hidden for possibly quite a while. But, it only takes one busy body to make your life miserable. And I can promise you most HOAs have plenty of busy bodies. Sure you could also keep your bees at an out yard but, that also has some disadvantages. Most people that keep bees enjoy just watching them come and go bringing in pollen and such. I always enjoy watching the first pollen of the year start rolling in. Now with your bees at an out yard you won't be able to do that any more. And bees are also a lot easier to be neglected at an out yard unless you are very dedicated. It really just boils down to just how important the bees are to you. If they are important I would look to build somewhere else. If you are willing to try it knowing if you get caught you will have to move the bees and your ok with that then go for it. I would not try and fight with an HOA to get things changed they have quite a bit of legal power. I've been through Greenville and there is still plenty of land, I'm sure you can find a small place that would allow you to down size and still keep your bees. That sounds like a win win.


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## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

All the more reason I don't live in a HOA, and never will lord willing.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

Consider what might happen and how you would feel if a week later, you were told the bees had to go.

Also, are you the homesteader type, will fruit trees, gardens, solar panels, chickens etc also be off limits.

Good luck. Also insurance companies used overhead film footage to discover things like bee hives and large branches on roofs etc so they can raise rates, drop coverage etc.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

dupe


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Tenpin said:


> Livestock refers to one or more domesticated animals raised in an agricultural setting to produce commodities such as food, fiber and labor. Animals are ‘domesticated’ when their breeding and living conditions are controlled by humans.


This reminds me of a technical discussion about how to manage computer servers (follow me on this one).

Do you give your hives cute, individual names? When one gets sick, do you become alarmed and then gingerly nurse it back to health? Your hives are pets.

Do you give your hives serial numbers? When one gets sick, do you shoot it in the head and get another one? Your hives are livestock.


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