# Hive handles?



## Nate Finch (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm planning on making my own hive bodies and supers, just for kicks. Anyone know an easy way to make those indented hive handles with home woodworking tools? I'm guessing it would involve a router, but can't wrap my head around how to do it.


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## BuzzyBee (May 28, 2008)

The easiest way would be with a table saw and a dado blade. Adjust the rip fence to the correct position to put your hand hold in the correct spot. Clamp a stop block so your your handles are all in the same spot. Put your dado blade expanded to the maximum width, lower it all the way, clamp your hive sides to the table, turn on the saw and raise the blade to the depth you like, lower the blade, turn the saw off, unclamp and repeat.

BB


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

I do as BB says, but I put the hand holds a tad lower to accomodate a cleat nailed across the ends of the super. For me the dado hand hold is a tad small, and the cleat gives extra purchase. Just be sure you can put a telescoping lid on with the cleat there... 

I use 1"x1" scrap lumber for my cleats and run them all the way across the ends of the super. I tried to duplicate the nice deep hand holds made by the commercial manufacturers, but gave it up. 
Regards,
Steven


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## Batman (Jun 7, 2009)

StevenG has the right idea, IMO it's so much easier to pickup a hive body with the cleats.

C2


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

I use 1X2 s. all the way across when they are full they are heavy and the 2 inch gives me a better grip. I got a little arthritis in the hands so I go for all the extra I can. I mark a mid line on the super and put the top of the cleat on that line. Just preference with me to have the cleat lower.

Rick SoMd


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## Funnyfarm (Jul 25, 2010)

table saw like described is the best bet. I've also done it with a circular saw built a jig so the cut would be centered and about 2 inches high and keep swiping with the circular saw till its done.


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## Nate Finch (Aug 4, 2010)

I can definitely see how the cleats would be easier on the hands, but I just like the classic look of the inset handle. The table saw method should work, more or less.. a little more rough and manual than I'd prefer, though. Maybe I can come up with a proper jig that'll make it easier to do the 40 or so of these I'll need to do. That or I'll break down and just nail something on the outside like a sane person.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I use a plunge router with a 3/4 inch bit and a jig that places the handhold in the position I want. Cleats are good but I find they trap water behind them and cause rot.


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## apism (Jul 4, 2010)

Did you get into beekeeping to be a weight lifter?
when you put that little hand hold in the end and lift a super with your fingers you will want somthing else
All my boxes have 1inch by 2inch cleat/handle
everybody that sees them hates them till they lift a full box then they love them 
only problem is if you have thousands of them then its a space issue

apism
still has strong back/weak mind


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## mrloba (Nov 8, 2009)

here is a youtube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMfIgTbfKs

greetings

Michael


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

I use a router and a simple jig I made from 1/4" plywood. The jig has a kind of "window" cutout. I clamp the jig to the side of the box and run the router around the inside of the "window" as a guide. Done.

I've been assembling the boxes then doing the handhold routing but as I ramp up production of boxes, I'm going to make a long, 4-hole jig that covers all 4 (unassembled) sides and cut them all prior to assembly.

I also like the look of a recessed hand-hold, don't feel like I need to be a weightlifter to lift the boxes and can not be swayed by the cleat enthusiasts. They have tried and failed every time the question is asked about how to cut hand-holds.

Wayne


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## standman (Mar 14, 2008)

A plunge router and a jig will work well. A friend of mine uses a jig made to recess door hinges. I have done my recessed handles on a table saw with a dado blade. I can send details if you are interested.

The problem with most homemade recessed handles is that the bottom of the recess is square, and tends to hold water. You can mitigate this to some degree by filling that area with a thick coat of paint. My favorite boxes (to pick up when full) are the ones with cleat handholds. One suggestion if you decide to do cleats: slant your table saw 15 degrees or so when you rip your 1 x 2s. This produces a slant on the top which sheds water and on the bottom which gives you more "bite" on your fingertips.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I use a router with a straight cutting bit and and a guide bushing to make these handholds:










Here's the jig:










And here's the router setup:










It's fast and safe and makes a cutout almost like a factory one, but to tell the truth I prefer cleats - they are easier to hold on to.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I make my own and use the dado method for my medium honey supers. It is so easy but I use a 3/4" straight bit mounted in a rather large shaper. I just make pencil marks on the fence for the drop and lift points.
As for hive bodies I highly recommend cleats. They not only are much easier on the fingers but also help tie the boxes sides together and if you have to lay a box on end they automatically tilt the box so frames don't fall out. I was considering using them on the honey supers I make as well just for this reason. For me it is very handy to lay a box on end and blow out bees or just put them on end while doing something else and not having frames fall out is a plus that is hard to imagine if you have not had this feature. As for rot I suppose this is true but using urethane glue makes me confident they won't rot-if you start to see rotting you can repair it before it destroys the woodenware. A fat bead of caulk troweled into the "joint" with your thumb would make a smooth transition and shed water.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

Nate Finch said:


> That or I'll break down and just nail something on the outside like a sane person.


Wisdom!


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

A 12” drill press is my machine of choice -- you only need the right cutter. I believe is much safer and faster than using a radial arm or table saw for a cutout handle. I would be okay with a router but I have seen other threads in which folks were critical of a handle that does not drain. Once I have everything setup a can make a handle cutout in 20 seconds, they are tapered, and smooth. I also have a vacuum port at the edge of the cutter to suck up all of the dust. See photo link below.

Specifics -- I use a contour wheel (Kutzall extreme contour wheel – (stock number 107) with 50 grit – and adapter (stock number 840) $22.50 // http://www.kutzalltools.com/) in a drill press. The wheel has flared sides and is 2 1/2" in diameter and 1 1/16" deep. I made a wooden jig that slides across the table while holding the wood at the appropriate angle. I built stops to limit the travel of the cut. The height of the handle cutout from the top of the box side is determined by the distance of the table from the cutter which you can control either by moving the spindle or the table. The depth of the cut is controlled by a guide on the underside of the jig that makes contact with the front of the drill press table. The lumber plank is also held by stops made the length of the longest side that can then be limited to center short sides as well.

Email me if you need addition information: [email protected]

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/carlinmo/Handlecuttout.jpg


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## adson (Nov 25, 2009)

this is another variation on the router jig. I use a dovetail bit in the router to make the top of the handle perpendicular to the box. the wings on the sides let me clamp it to the completed box sides while I cut.


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## jsharum (Mar 29, 2010)

i use two 2x4s laid flat on each side of a table saw blade. I then lay my plank of wood that the handle is to be cut in on top of that and center it up with the fence. I then crank up the blade until it raises the plank up about 3/8 of an inch. I then crank the blade over to a 45 degree angle, the blade will not be touching the hive body. Now turn on the saw and crank the angle adjustment to 90 degrees and back to 45 degrees. This will angle the blade into the hive body and cut with the side of the blade. Its hell on a blade but makes nice handles.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

adson said:


> this is another variation on the router jig.


Perfect! Thanks for posting that. I can what I'll be doing in the future.

Wayne


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

waynesgarden said:


> I also like the look of a recessed hand-hold, don't feel like I need to be a weightlifter to lift the boxes and can not be swayed by the cleat enthusiasts. They have tried and failed every time the question is asked about how to cut hand-holds.
> 
> Wayne


The simplest way i have found to do them is to get a dado blade, and set it for 13/16" or as close to it as you can get. 
Set the height of the blade to 1/2"
mark the center on the fence. Then mark the edge for a long side and a short end marking them as long and short.

Then take your piece and lift 1 edge up so you clear the blade and push up against the fence and then hold it securely at one end and slowly drop the other end down. 

It will cut square and neatly. i can do 10 hives worth of handles in about 5 min this way. 

What i do is line up the end edge with the mark i made on the fence, then set the other end down.


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## Nate Finch (Aug 4, 2010)

Wow, tons of fantastic answers! Thanks, everyone. Adson's jig is pretty sexy, I think I might go that route. Yes, cleats would have better grip, but I'm running all mediums, and still have a pretty strong back. I've picked up a medium full of honey via inset handles, and so long as I don't have to walk down the road with it, I think it's fine.


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## Ethfol (Jun 25, 2010)

Not to mention cleats take up extra space when you stack them... not a big deal if you have only a few but if you have a lot of hives that you have to stack...


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

send cleo c hogan a message he has a jig that uses a circular saw and cuts one just about like the ones you buy.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

There is a reason why commercial guys use cleats. :lookout:


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I converted all my supers to cleats during Winter of 2009-2010. I place them flush with the top edges of the supers, where they reinforce the super edges just opposite the frame-rest rabbet. They also make it much easier for me to implement several other of my management techniques. I expect the recessed handholds were implemented in order for equipment manufacturers to use less lumber and make more money.


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## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

Im makeing boxs this winter for an increase in hives for next year. Im going all cleats...because its less work! It would still be the same price to buy boxs from a local supplier based on pine prices but i always do things the hard way!:scratch:


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Nate....Send me your e-mail address and I will send you the plans to make them with a skill saw. I make about 800 hand holds each year. It will take about 30 minutes to make the jig and total cost for the jig is about 50 cents. It takes about 30 seconds to make a hand hold. Exactly like the professional ones. [email protected]


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I converted all my supers to cleats during Winter of 2009-2010. I place them flush with the top edges of the supers, where they reinforce the super edges just opposite the frame-rest rabbet. They also make it much easier for me to implement several other of my management techniques. I expect the recessed handholds were implemented in order for equipment manufacturers to use less lumber and make more money.


Does this not make you have to use a larger outer cover?
Thanks-Howard

OOOOP-I forgot to ask another poster about the kutzall contour unit. I could not find this on their website. Can you offer this again? Thanks


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

Challenger: 

You wanted info on the source of the flared contour wheel used in a drill press to make handle cutouts.

Here is a direct link to the Oliver Carbide Products specific catalog.

http://www.kutzalltools.com/rubberhog_products_details.cfm?category_ID=16

Note that the deeper the width of the contour wheel the deeper the vertical height of the handle cutout that you could make. I am a woodcarver and had the 2 1/2" x 1 1/16" tool shown in the photo on hand. I would recommend the 3" diameter wheel (part number 114) or 3 1/2" (part number 120) because your board would be a little further from the drill press spindle and the taper of the handle would be 1 1/4" in height. There is a point that a height of the cutout does not mean much because you are obviously only grabbing the handle with the tips of your fingers.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Batman said:


> StevenG has the right idea, IMO it's so much easier to pickup a hive body with the cleats.
> 
> C2


It's alot harder to put two stacks beside each other and even harder to build a standard warehouse pallet of supers if they have cleats on them.

When I was at school in OH we built super pieces w/ handholds using the radial arm saw, which not very many homeowners own these days unless they do alot of woodwork. The stock goes on the bed and the saw is turned so the blade is parallel w/ the length of the bed. W/ a good sharp blade set to the proper depth for a good depth handhold, the blade is set out at a 45 degree angle and slowly adjusted to straight up and down, while cutting into the wood.

The other way is kinda like the tablesaw method. Using a set of dado blades, the saw is slowly lowered into the wood.

I'm not sure how my Amish equipment builder does it. Seems like it requires the loss of a finger or two, or parts of fingers.

Be careful, what ever you do.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_I've picked up a medium full of honey via inset handles, and so long as I don't have to walk down the road with it, I think it's fine. _

Now pick up a couple thousand supers that are plugged out. Stack them up on drip pallets in the back of a pickup truck.

It's not my back that gives me problems, and my back isn't the strongest. When I handle high volumes of heavy boxes by just the handholds, the ligaments and tendons in my fingers and my wrists bother me. Fingers that go numb and hands that hurt when you make a fist are no fun.

Pick up a box with handholds, and then pick up a box by putting your hands under the bottom of the box. It's like a cleat at the bottom of the box - it is so much easier to handle the box. (as long as the bottom of the box isn't covered in bees.)


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How do you stand a box w/ cleats on it's end and expect it to not fall over?

Do you put cleats only on the narrow ends or do you put them on the long sides too? Why not? Don't handle boxes from those sides very often?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Countryboy.... You are 100% correct. There is a big difference in how you do things commercially and how hobbist/small operators handle them. Migratory tops, inner covers, deeps/mediums, etc. My theory is...What ever works for you. cchoganjr


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

My "boxes" with cleats, have the cleats flush with the top edges of the box ends, they don't fall over when I set them on their ends.

I put cleats only on the narrow ends, it may be possible to lift and manipulate supers when holding them by their sides, but, for me, it is much more difficult to do that when they are full of honey, and easier holding them by their ends. Picking up heavy supers by their long sides, even with the recessed handholds, assumes the load will be distributed so it is balanced, that isn't always the case, and that wouldn't change even if there were cleats the entire length of their long sides.


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## Jay T (May 3, 2010)

I had boxes with cut outs and I went back and put cleats on everything. the cleats were installed low enough for telesoping tops to fit if I wanted to use them, but not so low to lose the center of gravety. I miss picking up 60 lb's boxes by the tipps of my finger...not :doh: :doh: :ws


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## zam (Dec 27, 2009)

When the lumber yards get in l load of plywood, etc, it is usually held together with steel straps and a "scrap" piece of wood to prevent marring the edges. This "scrap" piece of wood, if viewed on end, is shaped like a fat, block letter "C", with the channel to hold the strap. I rip the scrap in two down the middle of the channel and cut into handle-sized pieces. plenty big for my hands, plus a "notch" for my fingers to wrap into. My lumber yard gives me all I want for free.
the pic is a piece of the scrap you can probably get free at your lumber yard.


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## eranorion (Oct 12, 2008)

Would a drum sander with coarse grit, used at the right angle and plunged into the board sand out the right shape? Dont have one but have envisioned a positive result.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Sears Craftsman used to sell a bit set for table saws and radial arm saws. The quarter round bit makes perfect handles. It is hard to get the quarter round in anything over 4 inches due to the bite these blades have and the corresponding liability if it grabs and the kickback kills or maims someone. I have a set off eBay. I used a 7/8 dado set before I got the quarter round. I make a jig with clamps and lower the fore edge slowly enough that it does not kill me and fast enough to make a couple hundred supers a day. One of my beekeeping students, really smart, made a computer controlled saw that lowers and pivots the dado set into the wood. He also made a different saw that cuts the finger joints in one pass. To think he had never seen a beehive two years ago!


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Ted...Not sure what happened. The photo worked for about a day and a half on Beesource, , then it changed to attachment 35 ( don't know what that means), and now the photo does not come up. If anyone wants to see photos of the hand hold, that this jig will make, send me an e-mail, [email protected] and I will send it to you. Takes about 30 minutes to make the jig, costs about 50 cents. To make the commercial style hand hold you use a skill saw and 20 tooth blade, completely safe. Takes 20 - 30 seconds to make a hand hold. Meantime I am trying to figure out how to re-post the photo.

Thanks. cchoganjr


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

If this doesn't work, I give up. Maybe it will. If so, I owe you kbenz. 
cchoganjr

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/cchoganjr/HandHoldPhoto2.jpg


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

The dado cut handholds work just fine if you extend your cut by an inch to each side of center instead of just lowering the board and making a short cut. Gives a much larger gripping area. I just place a stop on each side of the blade at the correct distance, lower the board while holding it against the closest stop, and then push it forward to the next stop. My handholds are 6 1/4" long, 9/16" deep, and nobody has ever complained about them. I use a 7/8" thick dado set. And please don't try to tell me you can make and nail cleats on faster than I can cut handles!


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

The flared contour wheel is made for the rubber tire resurfacing industry. It lasts a lifetime. I have been carving hardwoods with these for 35 years. Check out the manufacturer http://www.olivercorp.com/index.cfm. If they ever do load up you burn out the pitch with a propane torch.

Here is a handle cut exactly as it came off the jig 10 minutes ago. The length of the handle is easily changed if you want a longer handle. I cut this handle in about 20 seconds and could drop in the next board in another 20 seconds for the next side. The handle is cut probably 80% through the board and the top is perfectly perpendicular to the side. The cut is smooth and very nicely taperd on the sides and bottom. There will be a little fuzz on one side that is easily removed with a sandpaper, knife, or propane torch.

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/carlinmo/hivehandlewithruler_35.jpg


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## NowThen (Nov 26, 2008)

I can not find that profile on the Oliver web site.
Perhaps I'm not looking at the correct page - if somebody could enlighten me if they find the location, please do!

There was a seller on Ebay selling that wheel and adapter as well, but he appears to be sold out.

Thanks!


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

NowThen,

Here are the specs for the flared contour wheel. Oliver does not make it easy to find all of their products

Catalog Number 120 [3 1/2 X 1 1/2 X 3/8 FCW NEW SSG 230]. I hope this link sticks to the specific page of their catalog. Look under rubber surgery tools. *This is an $80 tool!!* 

http://www.olivercorp.com/rubberhog_products_details.cfm?category_ID=16

But dado sets are not cheap either.


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## Walt McBride (Apr 4, 2004)

Interesting concepts posted here on building hand holds in bee boxes!
Years ago when I was building all my equipment I was confronted with the hand hold cut question.
I settled on using a Sears molding head with a quarter round cutter, a moulding head/dado inset plate for the 10" table saw and with start and stop blocks clamped to the table top in conjunction with the table rip guide.
The cuts are made AFTER the box is constructed as a safety factor as it gives you something to hold on to as the cut is made. I also put on a hearing protector as the cutting action is loud at a 5/8" depth. The box side being cut is lowered down on the cutter blade with the rear of the box placed against the start block (prevents kick back into operator and indexes start of cut) box is advanced to stop block, ending cut.
In addition I cleat all boxes front and back alined with the cut hand hold giving me good grip on heavy filled boxes. That was after I dropped a filled medium on my foot.
The 16.125" cleats also allow for lifting hives and transporting with bottoms attached, easily over distances with the two man hive carrier that fits under the bottom box cleat.
We some times do pollination and the carrier makes it allot easer to load and un load and place hives.
Walt


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## NowThen (Nov 26, 2008)

Thank, Carlinmo!

While the link did not stick (it's never stuck for me), it got me started down a trail to several companies that supply equipment to tire repair shops. These cutter / grinder / sander wheels can be found at reasonable prices at a couple of these suppliers.


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## dannyidp (Jun 10, 2010)

Has anybody ever used drawer pulls for handles? So what is the exact tool that the commercial hive makers use? Because I don't have a clue.:scratch:









If America don't change here ways:ws


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

The tool is a quarter round convex cove cutter 6 inch diameter or larger. They are several hundred dollars and still hard to get. Craftsman used to make one for table saws that is still on eBay sometimes. Stores stopped selling them because kickback is a real problem.


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## Soapstone (Nov 21, 2009)

carlinmo said:


> http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/carlinmo/hivehandlewithruler_35.jpg


carlinmo,

I wonder if your jig could be modified to cut handholds that angle up at the top like the commercial ones, instead of being perpendicular to the hive body? If you mounted the wide part of the cutter next to the chuck (opposite to what is shown in your photo) and dropped the table down a little it looks like there would be clearance so you could angle the hive body side for a slight undercut. From the looks of it this would finally provide a practical method to cut handholds almost exactly like the commercial ones, safely and at a reasonable cost. (Maybe even better, because of the limited tearout from the cutter.) Do you think this would be feasible?

Also, if you are doing a lot of these handholds, do you worry about wearing out the drill press bearings? I imagine they are designed more for thrust loads than side loads. Could the cutter be mounted on a moulding machine?

Thanks


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

Soapstone,

I did not realize the handles were undercut. I understand what you mean, but leaning the board into the spindle might require a larger diamenter cutter and might be more work than is necessary to get a few degrees of undercut. In all other respects, these handles are almost identical to the commercial ones.

Your suggestion would also require a new setup for each size of board. On my system, once you set up the drill press for a hive body board (9 5/8") you can immediately switch to a medium (6 5/8") or shallow (5 11/16") super because the distance from the top of the board to the start of the handle cut will be exactly the same on all three.

The purpose of the horizontal and vertical stops is to provide a solid support for the board as you push it into the cutting wheel. Since you are working with the board upside down and 1 1/2" from the base of the jig you have excellent control. The stop on the bottom of the jig board limits your ability to push the cutter through the hive side by contact with the front of the drill press table. The photo does not show the levers that are screwed into the vertical stops. When you want to cut a handle in the short (16 1/4") side board you lower these levers and the board is centered between the two levers. I have compete instructions for calibrating the jig to the drill press.

Here is the photo of my jig once again. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this system since my August 18 post. See my post in the for sale forum.










I cannot answer your question about the sideways pressure against the drill press spindle. I have had other inquiries about putting a cutter like this on a router or shaper. I think the 3 1/2" wheel is too large for a hobbyist router. I have no experience with a shaper. If you contact Oliver Carbide Products you would want to discuss the type and aggressiveness of the coating that they put on the cutter.


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## mjdtexan (Feb 17, 2009)

adson said:


> this is another variation on the router jig. I use a dovetail bit in the router to make the top of the handle perpendicular to the box. the wings on the sides let me clamp it to the completed box sides while I cut.


Very nice. I like that one. I too have a guide bushing. You can get one for most any router really. I use mine on the Leigh Dovetail Jig.


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## adson (Nov 25, 2009)

that set up doesn't need a router guide bushing.
the router face runs against the bottom and side rails to limit the cut.


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

See my video explaining and demonstrating how to make hive handles with a flared contour wheel and drill press at:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250044&highlight=hive+handles


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## Eyeshooter (Mar 8, 2008)

fish_stix said:


> The dado cut handholds work just fine if you extend your cut by an inch to each side of center instead of just lowering the board and making a short cut. Gives a much larger gripping area. I just place a stop on each side of the blade at the correct distance, lower the board while holding it against the closest stop, and then push it forward to the next stop. My handholds are 6 1/4" long, 9/16" deep, and nobody has ever complained about them. I use a 7/8" thick dado set. And please don't try to tell me you can make and nail cleats on faster than I can cut handles!


I agree with you Fish Stix. I made 14 medium supers the other day and cut the 56 handholds in under 20 minutes. I've tried routers and I've made boxes with cleats. This was the simplest and quickest technique I've ever used. This also reduce the amount of material you remove vs a sweep which helps ever so slightly during those couple of -20º nights we have every winter. Not having cleats let's me push them closer together, as well.
- John


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## Topkick (Jun 27, 2009)

Hello again,
I have enjoyed reading all your comments and opinions about how to lift hive bodies and supers.
I am the builder of the "Bee Box Machining Center". Seen elsewhere in this forum.
Under hardware I think.

You all offer very valid reasons for the type of handle you like. I agree with most.

I would like to summerize...Tell me if you agree.

If you like recsessed hand holds, they should be as deep as possible, about 4-1/2 inches wide, with a very generous," back bevel" of 15 degrees or more. 

We make our machine to cut a Hand Hold at a maximum of 5/8 or less. This leaves the box 1/8 inch thick...but just about 2 square inches, a really small patch of thinness.
Our machine will cut a back bevel of more than 15 degrees. Most others I have measured are at 10 degrees, or less. I think this is really important because as you lift the box you end up tring to sqeeze the box to keep your fingers from slipping out. Your fingers should just feel like nesting in there and you can use all your energy to lift, not sqeeze.
Don't forget space for your first knuckle, (not too much steepness of the ramp)

Any thing you can do here to prevent standing water is the way to go. Those of you that are using square Router bits...Goto Whiteside Router bits Web site. They have some good ones. Made in the USA!!!

Cleats...You can only pick up a box when you are lifting on center. a Full length cleat is full length for strength. Have you had any that have come loose and come off? Adding the cleat, what is the best way to attach? glue and nail? Staple? 

The most expensive way to make a hand hold....http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/...ng Center 4-28-10/HANDHOLDDRIVEASSEMBLY02.jpg

Picture of our hand hold. http://s929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/woodmaneng/BEE BOX Machining Center 4-28-10/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ9

Copy and paste links to see. (PhotoBucket)

Thanks Hank


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I did mine the way fish_stix does. Mark the table with a pencil, put the box and the blade and push it to the next pencil mark. I wonder if there is a way to get the 10-15 degree angle this way? Just running the blade into the box was time consuming, too short for my fat hands and I was afraid I was going to blow through.


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## caribou0_0 (Aug 21, 2010)

Look on (YOUTUBE) search hive handles guys name is Karl Koeschgen who made the video. He made a jig and it is for sale for 40.00. Takes about 2 minutes to make hive handle with drill press. Look it up, you will be glad you did.


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## Ueli Hoffmann (Jan 26, 2011)

caribou0_0 said:


> Look on (YOUTUBE) search hive handles guys name is Karl Koeschgen who made the video. He made a jig and it is for sale for 40.00. Takes about 2 minutes to make hive handle with drill press. Look it up, you will be glad you did.


My concern with the Koeschgen method is the side pressure applied to the drill press bearings overtime may cause runout.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Ueli Hoffmann said:


> My concern with the Koeschgen method is the side pressure applied to the *drill press bearings overtime *may cause runout.


Put it on a Router :thumbsup:

Tommyt


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## Ueli Hoffmann (Jan 26, 2011)

tommyt said:


> Put it on a Router :thumbsup:


That depends on the rpm rating of the cutting wheel. He was using 4,250 rpm in the video. Most routers are in the 10,000 - 21,000 rpm range.


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## Ueli Hoffmann (Jan 26, 2011)

tommyt said:


> Put it on a Router :thumbsup:


:no: According to Oliver Carbide Products, Inc the rating for the RH-122 flared contour wheel is only 5,000 rpm.


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## mjdtexan (Feb 17, 2009)

Ueli Hoffmann said:


> tommyt said:
> 
> 
> > Put it on a Router
> ...


I think a jig can be made with a fixed base router. Take it out of its base, affix it to your jig. Maybe have ramps at each end of the router/jig for it to go down and then back up so that you have a smooth transistion and whatever bevel you desire.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

For a hobbyist or a small producer, I haven't seen anything that is as cheap, fast, easy, and SAFE, as making them with a Skil saw and a jig you build yourself. If you haven't seen it, go back to page 4 of this Forum Thread, and look at the Photobucket photo of the hand holds that I make, and you can make with a skil saw. Fast, Cheap, Easy, and SAFE. 

If you want the plans to build this jig, and instructions, e-mail me and I will send them to you. I have shared this info with perhaps a hundred Beesource members in the last year. If you own a skil saw, you can build the jig in about 30 minutes, will cost you about 50 cents to make the jig, and about 30 seconds to cut a hand hold. SAFE, easy, fast.

There are lots of methods on U-Tube, but I haven't seen any that I would trade for the Skil saw method.

[email protected]


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## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

"There are lots of methods on U-Tube, but I haven't seen any that I would trade for the Skil saw method."

I agree 100%.
I was a bit skeptical at first because I'm not a big fan of skil saws, ( I am a woodworker). But I was not happy with my plunge router method I had been using.
I contacted Cleo C. Hogan and he sent me easy plans for building his jig. I had it built in about 15 minutes. And like he says it only takes about 30 seconds a hand hold. 
These are by far the best handholds I have made.
Cleats mess up my tar paper job in winter, and make it hard to stack boxes.
Router method slower and more dusty.
Thanks Cleo.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Cleo also sent me the plans yesterday. The jig looks easy to make, though I won't be able to get into the shop to make it for a bit. Thanks, Cleo.

Wayne


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## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

Ethfol said:


> Not to mention cleats take up extra space when you stack them... not a big deal if you have only a few but if you have a lot of hives that you have to stack...


Can someone explain this to a newbee. It would only take up the thickness of the cleat, correct? If you were putting them side by side, it really would be insignificant wouldn't it?

It wouldn't take up any extra space from stacking supers.

Someone please explain.

Thanks.


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## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

"Can someone explain this to a newbee. It would only take up the thickness of the cleat, correct? If you were putting them side by side, it really would be insignificant wouldn't it?"



Its just a minor annoyance when things don't stack nice and flush, especially if you have lots and lots of boxes. I find even when I'm putting honey supers on the truck its nicer when they all push in close together so they don't slide or fall as easy.
Also, as I said before, if you wrap your hives for winter the cleats get in the way.


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## Humanbeeing (Nov 23, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qM7MY2wCws


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

I use a 2 1/2 in cleat that goes to the top of the box. This cleat, when glued on , will greatly reinforce the most fragil part of the box. I use a flat migratory cover. Never understood the need of a telescopic lid. Sure has no place when moving bees by the truck load.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I agree with jjgbee, I use 1-1/2" cleats, flush with the top of the box, and only across the ends. I glue and then screw them from inside the box with two or three short, 1-1/4" coated deck screws. I use my own, custom covers; flat - with a bee space rim on one side and a permanent, single bee entrance on one end.


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## Bucksnort (Feb 6, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> For a hobbyist or a small producer, I haven't seen anything that is as cheap, fast, easy, and SAFE, as making them with a Skil saw and a jig you build yourself. If you haven't seen it, go back to page 4 of this Forum Thread, and look at the Photobucket photo of the hand holds that I make, and you can make with a skil saw. Fast, Cheap, Easy, and SAFE.
> 
> If you want the plans to build this jig, and instructions, e-mail me and I will send them to you. I have shared this info with perhaps a hundred Beesource members in the last year. If you own a skil saw, you can build the jig in about 30 minutes, will cost you about 50 cents to make the jig, and about 30 seconds to cut a hand hold. SAFE, easy, fast.
> 
> ...


+1 on the Fast, Cheap, Easy, and SAFE comment above.

Send this man an email and he'll send you his plans for his jig. :applause: I built 10 supers a few weeks ago and researched the handhold question and came upon this thread. The jig is built out of scrap lumber and is so simple you'll be amazed that you didnt think of it yourself. After a few cuts, it took me longer to clamp the jig to the wood than it did to cut the actual handhold. I do not own a router, radial arm saw, drill press, or a dado blade so all those methods were ruled out. If I did own those tools, I'd still use the circular saw with Mr. Hogan's jig because it produces a handhold that looks just like the "store bought" ones PLUS there is very little danger (never say never) of kick back, all the saw dust/shavings fly AWAY from you, it is not hard on the equipment, and everyone owns or should own a circular saw so there's no special equipment to purchase.:thumbsup:


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