# Usda / elap



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Is anybody making progress on ELAP applications? Any lack of progress, roadblocks?

Anyone get approval for 08 losses? Have you seen or heard of the determined cost of replacement?

I got the application and certification in, but haven't heard if the county committee approved or not. I did read in a USDA statement that they expect bee losses to be the largest eligible group requesting assistance. According to the web site a value has not yet been set, but I've heard rumors that some California counties have already made payments. My local FSA rep has said she expects payments to be made in time for Spring 2010.


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## Susan (Aug 6, 2003)

Yes, got our paperwork in. Tulare did not have a meeting in Dec, so if will be on the 20th of Jan. The FSA was out to our beeyards and per them, no set replacement cost for hives, so it will be 60% of going pricing of hives. They asked us for phone numbers and information on who to call to buy hives, and prices. Every state will be diffent. Also on the feed, it will be 60% of your feed bills since 1/08 till now 12/10/09, and remember to file from 12/10 to end of jan on feed and patties by the 21st I think. (if you are in a drought co). also I think he said 100 % of cost for queens.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Thanks Susan; I have my app in too, but FSA seems unresolved on how to set the replacement value. I have assumed it would be the cost of a package but you refer to hives, which is different. I have an email in to FSA regarding determination of value but they say the issue is unresolved. Also my understanding is that it is either/or on replacement and feed.


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## F&D (Aug 21, 2009)

We are having trouble filling ous out. Could someone post a copy of a compleated form (without you numbers)? It would really help. We have had a big loss and can't get any help filling out the paperwork.

thanks


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Here in Fresno county the first thing required is some form of "certification" from an entomologist or bee biologist verifying that the losses are due to ccd. I got letters from both the county entomolgist and a UC extension bee expert. Then I also had records showing how many colonies I had been operating, and included my unsecured personal property tax payments on bees and bee equipment. Finally I took pictures of the empty equipment before it was brought in to the barn. It would seem that FSA is developing their guidelines as they go. This support got legislated but there hasn't been time for FSA to develop a protocol.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom G. Laury said:


> Is anybody making progress on ELAP applications? .


Dead line is Jan 30th.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I would like to see the form also, is it posted online somewhere?
We asked our FSA and they don't even pay for this, only drought.
Sheri


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> We asked our FSA and they don't even pay for this, only drought.
> Sheri


Then your FSA agent is not up to date with what is going on. FSA is part of USDA so all states(and counties within each state) are included. Yes they have coverage for loss of production(not just because of drought). And they have coverage for loss of bees and extra feed given because of lack of honey production. Call the Whitehall office and talk to Jim (can't think of his last name) at 715-538-4396. He has been looking into this but I am not filing anymore(for production loss or bee loss).


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

This program has been legislated but no protocol has been established to implement it. So the county offices are taking applications but are not making any payments ( as far as I can tell ).

Of course we are all suspicious about the opportunity for fraud. There are no best practices requirements. The requirements and forms are online. It seems that the "fraud filter" will be the county committee, as all applications are approved or denied at that level. 

Well it sounds like Logger and Slave looked in to it but decided not to apply. Sheri has a county assistant that is unaware of it's existence. As it's a new program and just now being put to use, I was just wondering what others have encountered at FSA.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tom, I heard that the program has been put on hold for reworking. Have you heard that? Afriend of mine spoke to a State Apiarist from a southern state, while we were at the ABF conference, who said that he didn't believe that the program was viable from the start.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Mark yes, they have everything on hold, but no hints that it's off the table. What I have been told is they haven't yet determined the replacement cost, and need to come up with a national average.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Part of this thread got so political I moved those posts to Tailgator. 
I apologize for being one of those pushing it in that direction. 
Carry on....
Sheri


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## JPK (May 24, 2008)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> Part of this thread got so political I moved those posts to Tailgator.
> I apologize for being one of those pushing it in that direction.
> Carry on....
> Sheri


Sheri, is questioning the efficacy and appropriateness of said program inappropriate for this forum?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

The OP asked about filling out the forms. Discussing the philosophy of pros/cons to society of this program, and programs in general is better left to tailgater.
Sheri


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

The deadline for signing up for 2008 & 2009 losses has been extended to May 05 2010. Washington seems to have made some progress on implementing the program.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I started the process last September. Hoping for that 60% help with emergency feed. Sugar costs for 2009 were 12,000, up from average of 2,500. Paid the 250 NAP fee for 2010 by the December deadline. USDA office made me pay for VT and NY...500 total. Then found out only had to pay for home county. NY office said in December they were trying to figure out how to return my 250. Trying??

Finally called in last week. Still trying. Ever pay your payroll taxes late? Tell the IRS you're trying to figure out how to pay them.

And my home office tells me they don't think last summer's weather will qualify me for help with emergency feed?? The guy says my bees would have to wash away down the river to qualify. I asked...If my bees floated down the river, why the hell would I need emergency feed?? I told them if last summer didn't qualify for help, then no summer would and I want all my 500 back. I guess they'll try to figure that one out too.

What a useless Farm Bill program.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

The Director of Fresno County FSA just told me flat out "...this is a bad bill..."

Banks ok, but bees no way.


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## F&D (Aug 21, 2009)

Got a call today that our application was approved by the local COC. Do not know payment amounts, they have still not collected the estimated ELAP payment amounts to the national office to determine if there is enough money to go around or if there will be a national payment factor. She said it could be several months. No word if we will be getting paid for packages or queens. Still waiting.


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