# Why top bar hives don't require queen excluder?



## Tilopa (Feb 16, 2015)

I was reading about TBH and the author said one of the advantages is that it does not need a QE. Is this because when the bees draw the comb for honey stores they make it bigger and queen won't lay in them?


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

because people generally don't care where the queen lays in a TBH. For what it's worth, the only reason I have ever needed an excluder was to shake bees through in order to find a junk queen in a somewhat hot hive.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

There is no difference in a honey cell and a drone cell we all know queens lay in those. 

Good answer Harley. A super full of honey is the best queen excluder there is.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> I was reading about TBH and the author said one of the advantages is that it does not need a QE. 


Lang style hives don't need a queen excluder either. 


A QE is merely a _tool_, like a smoker or a veil. But if you need to find a queen, a QE can be a useful tool for that endeavor. There are many thousands of Lang style hives that have no queen excluder in place.


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

Usually, and I say usually, a full bar of capped honey will act as a queen excluder in a top bar hive. With my top bars I let the brood nest expand to about 15 bars or so, then later in the season, I move up a capped bar of honey behind the last brood comb. This acts as a queen excluder...most of the time.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Following up on Matt's comment above, one difference between Langs and TBH's with regard to an excluder is that TBHs don't have foundation. Many Lang hives do have foundation, and that foundation makes it difficult for drones to be raised. In a TBH, drones can be raised on any bar that they choose (assuming the bar has appropriate cells). The point is that in a TBH the bees could choose to build drone cells toward the periphery of the core brood nest, but with foundation in a Lang its not so simple, so drones will be raised _where they can_, which may be somewhere other than the core brood nest area.

Keep in mind that not every Lang hive has foundation, so as they say ... _your mileage may vary_.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Lang style hives don't need a queen excluder either.

Exactly. The reasons are the same.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm#excluder


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