# Counterfeit honey



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Try to purchase real pomegranate juice if you want to find something as rare as genuine chinese honey.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

After fake baby formula to their own country's kids, who in their right mind would knowing eat anything produced in that environment? "real" or otherwise.
And as America's AG businesses "get more business like", I am resorting to growing my own just so I maybe know what I am eating.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Or consumers could simply buy actual food from actual farmers


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm pretty sure the communist governement is complicit to this practise of cutting the honey with syrup. Don't they usually hang those whose behavior they strongly dissaprove of? Add royal jelly to the list Ian. You can buy all the royal jelly in the world you want Ian, they never seem to run out. However if you ask them to skip a step and not remove the larvae from the queen cup and sell you the whole cup jelly larvae and all, well that's another ball of wax. Then the price changes dramatically, or they cannot do it. They can't do it, even though technically you save them a step. What's up with that? Just more adulteration. However they are so proud that they control the world market.

I agree that it will take a lot of help and it is a lot to ask of the industry to take it on alone.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I know of a Chinese family who immigrated into Canada. They refused to buy honey that was suspect to of had originated in China... Try tracking that one down. "Syrup syrup syrup". !!!! They buy BeeMaid honey which they trust as honey, love it.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I think the only way to protect ourselves, is to have heavy penalties imposed on those who participate in this fraudulent practise. Penalise the buyers, no excuses for them. The onous is on them to make sure they are buying the real deal. Let's face it the Chinese are truly resourceful when it comes to cheating. Every roadblock that the American beekeeper has placed in their way they have found a detour. Every one. Whatever the next road block will be, rest assured that in a year or two or three they will have figured something out. The only other play there is, are heavy penalties for the buyers.

I believe in Germany the penalties for those who do B&E's are not as heavy as the penalties imposed imposed upon those whose purchase the stolen goods. No buyers no thieves, is the thinking. This type of strategy could be an answer for the honey industry.

Jean-Marc


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

They bought Smithfield here in US because their citizens don't trust their food industry. They have been killing their own for years so why should they worry about rest of the world. Cutting honey with sugar syrup, in their eyes it's better than arsenic.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

The U.S. Actually has a fairly steep tariff on Chinese honey. The ship it to Argentina, re-label it and then ship it to the U.S. to avoid the tariff. Not to mention the Chinese government subsidizes honey traders that ship abroad. It is how they reduce competition, By making it unprofitable for other countries beekeepers to stay in business. they cheat every chance they get.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Yes I agree, put these suspect imports in a quarantine until testing clears the product, at the cost of the buyer. And then WHEN the athourities determine its adulterated nature, simply dump the honey out at the cost of the importer. It will make sure they have proper testing and assured goods before shipping it in and will not risk dealing with those "unknown" sources. 
This could get messy


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## Learning2Bee (Jan 20, 2016)

The result of Communism is never good. Thats why America should always practice capitalistic values the way we were founded. The prevention of Communism, Tyranny, and Socialistic values is essential to our nations survival.

It's not just honey thats being altered, almost all of our food supply is. Ingested fluorides in our water are literally killing us. Many man-made/altered products contain toxins horrible for our body. In fact, even our babies are being altered. "3 parent babies".

We must keep our food supplies at the purest quality, stop importing altered, toxic goods from other countries. It's like MLK Jr. boycotting buses, we must boycott imported toxic foods that really don't help our economy, our bodies, or our environment.

Please stop buying, ingesting, or even supplying these goods. It's not the right way to make a living.


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## The General (Apr 22, 2014)

Learning2Bee said:


> The result of Communism is never good. Thats why America should always practice capitalistic values the way we were founded.
> 
> Please stop buying, ingesting, or even supplying these goods. It's not the right way to make a living.


Capitalism does not care if its the right way or wrong way. That would be Morals.

People are distributing these products because OF Capitalism, not Communism. Buying cheap from the Chinaman and selling elsewhere for hefty profits is just people being Capitalists. (labor outsourcing, part importing, material importing are all examples)

Whether this is right or wrong is something you have to decide and you have to take action against. I took action by growing and producing all my own food as these companies that are engaged in this behaviour, by the very definition of Capitalism, are only looking out for maximizing profits not if their clients end up sick or dead.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Ha! Check this out. You may think twice about eating rice now!

https://youtu.be/haSsXxxQBSo


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## Learning2Bee (Jan 20, 2016)

"Please stop buying, ingesting, or even supplying these goods. It's not the right way to make a living." When I said "these goods" I was referring to, this.- "We must keep our food supplies at the purest quality, stop *importing altered, toxic goods from other countries*"

I personally believe Capitalism INVOLVES practicing good morals. Labor outsourcing, part importing, and material importing is the definition of Capitalism. Correct. But not importing toxic, untruthfully labeled goods. That is the definition of rich Chinaman avoiding tariffs, being greedy, making a untruthful living. 

Communism encourages deceit by taking away freedom, not giving people free will. You see, in a Communist country, the people that have the money are the dictators, the guys up top, the head honchos, and the people with contacts to those people. The rest of the people are underpaid, overworked, and put in harsh un-humane conditions. Thats the way they're raised.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Here is a video some may find interesting regarding the honey in the jar. A friend who helped create the video sent it off
to me when we were discussing the 'truth in labeling' issue.

http://deconstructingdinner.ichannel.ca/honey-standards-of-identity-truth-in-labelling/


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Chinaman play capalistic game to win,always sell for less cause it cost less for chinaman to produce in china
Chinaman invent new honey ,pass all tests. fool packers everywhere, new honey ,called "funny honey"
Chinaman get monopoly on world honey market, break all beekeepers world wide , now Chinaman can raise prices


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## The General (Apr 22, 2014)

Learning2Bee said:


> Communism encourages deceit by taking away freedom, not giving people free will. You see, in a Communist country, the people that have the money are the dictators, the guys up top, the head honchos, and the people with contacts to those people. The rest of the people are underpaid, overworked, and put in harsh un-humane conditions. Thats the way they're raised.


That's hilarious because its exactly like that in EVERY country. They are called Oligarchs and have ruled that way for well over a thousand years. Sometimes the peasants get the right spark and chop their heads off (French Revolution) but that rarely happens, usually its just a regime change and the cycle continues. 

However it's a good thing those conditions are upon the world again and a Great change is about to take place.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree this is a grave problem, which when added to the pesticide kills, makes the situation even more grim. Unfortunately I see little help coming from the Government. They seem to be too easily swayed by campaign contributions lately. 

I believe we must take it upon ourselves to resolve this issue by educating the consumer. It will be a tough row to how, but until the average person realizes the difference between Phunny and Real Honey, that lure of low price will be hard to resist. It may take a media campaign by a National group, or a concerted effort by all beekeepers. 

Crazy Roland


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

As long as we're off topic. This from an old Ann Landers column.

"Definitions:

Socialism: You have two cows. Give one cow to your neighbor.

Communism: You have two cows. Give both cows to the government, and they may give you some of the milk.

Fascism: You have two cows. You give all of the milk to the government, and the government sells it.

Nazism: You have two cows. The government shoots you and takes both cows.

Anarchism: You have two cows. Keep both of the cows, shoot the government agent and steal another cow.

Capitalism: You have two cows. Sell one cow and buy a bull.

Surrealism: You have two giraffes. The government makes you take harmonica lessons."


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

When there seems to be a level of dishonesty or apathy leading to improved profits it is difficult to change the "system". Not impossible, but difficult. I think all the influential points of change have been identified, and they all have their merit, but my money would be on the consumer. Educating the consumer who ultimately funds the cycle should have the greatest impact. I do think many companies ride the coat tails of honest and hardworking beekeepers, but it is our image to maintain and project.

We are relatively small honey producers, but my wife takes great pride in bottling and packaging everything we produce to sell in our local market. We spend a great deal of time talking with the public at the markets, at the stores and at schools. I think people want to do the right thing and help bees and beekeepers, but simply do not know there is a difference when they lay down their money to purchase "honey" in support of beekeepers.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I agree with Joe in that ultimately the responsibility lies with the producers to educate the public. It is tougher for very large producers who are isolated from most of their consumers because of distances. Monies pooled together to advertise and promote honey consumption would be a very wise long term investment.

Jean-Marc


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Here are some odd catalog entries I was going to put links in, but I don't think I want to advertise for them, so I took them out...:

A picture of a honey bear with coins in it maybe? Under the heading of "Bulk Non-Gmo High Glucose Fructose Corn Syrup High Fructose Syrup"

This one is labeled "2014 New Product Cheap Price Best Quality Taste Same As Honey Bottled Honey Flavored Syrup" and has pictures of honey bears with what appears to be honey in them.

This one is labeled "Honey Syrup Imitated Honey Artifical Honey" but has "Nectar Source" listed as "Multiflower honey, polyflora honey, pure honey" and comments say "honey syrup imitated honey artifical honey" and it comes in honey bear containers...

It all looks pretty suspicious to me.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

hex0rz said:


> Ha! Check this out. You may think twice about eating rice now!
> 
> https://youtu.be/haSsXxxQBSo


The fake rice story is fake. 
Google it. The source "Live Leaks" is a poor choice to get information from.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I sell my honey at a local art festival. I will occasionally have native Chinese customers, and surprisingly they are VERY concerned what's in my honey. They quiz me over and over about what I put into my honey. The first time I got this I was wondering what the heck is wrong with these people - its just honey, ya know the stuff bees make? Eventually it came to me that they are used to the adulteration and corruption in their home country and trust no one. I guess rightfully so.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

aunt betty said:


> The fake rice story is fake.
> Google it. The source "Live Leaks" is a poor choice to get information from.


I don't want to derail this thread, but:

https://youtu.be/GZwLxsvwJRs
https://youtu.be/YTsQSsMr2CY

They don't stop at honey or rice, it gets worse:

https://youtu.be/9sET54nERZs
https://youtu.be/tXUfxSwNUZU
https://youtu.be/XfGsLle6t9Q

Make your own conclusion...


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Honey company in Spain,

http://trademark.markify.com/trademarks/ctm/maes+honey/015096183




In International Class 30:
Honey; Artificial honey.

In International Class 35:
Promotion of sales of honey and honey substitutes; Electronic commerce services, namely, providing information on honey and honey substitutes through telecommunications networks for advertising purposes and sales; Services Import and export of honey and honey substitutes; Services retail honey and honey substitutes; Services wholesale of honey and artificial honey.

In International Class 39:
Packaging and storage of honey and honey substitutes; transport of honey and artificial honey.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Artificial honey? A contradiction in terms if ever there was one. Ok, lets assume for a moment this is legal, then what they are selling should clearly be marked "artificial honey" throughout the supply chain and fraud is committed the first time the word artificial is omitted.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Jim, are you suggesting that a bill of lading could be changed en-route? Unheard of I say.

Crazy Roland


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## sjz (Apr 14, 2010)

Communism is not good, but it happens to be Capitalism that is at fault here. Buy it as cheap as you can to make a buck. Free trade with countries like china is ruining all markets. By the way Capitalism on a grand scale is no different then communism. Once big Capitalistic corporations own everything (Monopoly) they will bleed a country dry, by outsourcing jobs, and importing cheap garbage. This is a big problem that the whole world is facing, more than the threat of communism.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The thing is... This discussion on capitalism and socialism does NOTHING to address the issues at hand. 
Counterfeit honey is being sold as pure honey... We need actions to stop this! As goes for all food products.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ian said:


> The food industry as a whole needs to take on the counterfeit food issue and come up with some solid solutions to stem this problem. Off the top of my head... Olive oil, ground meat, chocolate, honey... Cheap fillers, adulterated with cheap blends, dies and artificial flavouring.


Education of the consumer is a slow process, but it's the answer that will indeed have an effect. And I do see this 'in the market' today, already having an effect. Examples.

Just before christmas, the Presidents Choice brand (loblaws in house brand) ran a series of tv commercials, done in a very high impact manner, declaring that as of NOW (the day of the add), no Presidents Choice products would contain artificial flavours or colors. The spot started off by stating, real food is good food, and we will let our food speak for itself. I've wondered before how much follow thru they have on that statement, but just looked at a tub of PC ice cream in the freezer here, purchased on the weekend. In bold letters on the label, it states 'no artificial flavour or colors added'.

Another example, we were wandering thru the grocery store one evening last week, and I reached for one of those green tubes of grated parmesan everybody has in the fridge, we are out. I turned it around and read the ingredients. First item is cheese, second item is cellulose ??????? If those are done by weight, then the volume of cellulose (which is light and fluffy) will far exceed the volume of actual parmesan cheese (heavy dense product). I put it back on the shelf, checked a few other brands, all had cellulose in the ingredients list, one of them even had it at the top of the list. I stopped at the deli and bought a chunk of parmesan we can grate ourselves.

This is happening more and more in the grocery stores these days, I see a lot of folks reading labels.

A solution it is not yet, but, it's a growing trend, and is the correct solution over time, educate consumers so they know what they are buying. At least one of the large food processing companies (loblaws) is taking notice of this trend in consumer purchasing, and they have reacted to it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Another example, we were wandering thru the grocery store one evening last week, and I reached for one of those green tubes of grated parmesan everybody has in the fridge, we are out. I turned it around and read the ingredients. First item is cheese, second item is cellulose ???????

Yes, I remember in my youth propaganda (I guess it was called a "textbook") them telling me that we needed the government to protect us from people putting things like sawdust (that was a specific example in the text) in the food and that's why the FDA was a wonderful thing. Yet, here we are, with the FDA not only allowing such things but protecting such things. They can put a huge amount of non-fat dry milk into hotdogs and they are not required to put it on the label... apparently the FDA does not think people with lactose intolerance, other dietary restrictions, medical or religious, deserve to know...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

From the USDA's page on hot dogs ....



> Up to 3.5% non-meat binders and extenders (such as nonfat dry milk, cereal, or dried whole milk) or 2% isolated soy protein may be used,[HIGHLIGHT] but must be shown in the ingredients statement on the product's label[/HIGHLIGHT] by its common name.
> 
> _Read the rest here:
> _http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal...preparation/hot-dogs-and-food-safety/CT_Index


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

When reading labels, the first item listed is supposed to be the largest portion in the container. whether this is by weight or volume, I don't know. Given the loose rules for labeling, it is probably dealers choice.
I saw a jar of sugar free honey on the shelf the other day. I'll have to read that one next time.:scratch:

Alex


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I wonder if Natural Farms Honey lists HFCS before honey on their ingredient list


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ian what makes you think HFSC is even an ingredient of that brand?
They do use chinese honey. I am sure it is tested and passed, but isn't rice syrup the first choice. It is somewhat plentiful there as opposed to corn. I don't think they grow a whole bunch of corn, do they?

Jean-Marc


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ian said:


> I wonder if Natural Farms Honey lists HFCS before honey on their ingredient list


I notice Beemaid has taken up this subject too, and have a really nice explanation of label requirements on the website now. It explains how the things are ordered on the labels in the blend statement. This is good, one more step toward educating consumers. An educated consumer will vote with their wallet, and that carries far more weight than anything else. A product that sits on the shelf to long in the store, will not get re-stocked. A product that consistently moves from the shelf to the cash register will be re-stocked immediately. In the end, this is the only vote which counts. Folks can sign petitions, rant online, etc etc, but if there isn't follow thru at the cash register, it's all just empty talk.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Up to 3.5% non-meat binders and extenders (such as nonfat dry milk, cereal, or dried whole milk) or 2% isolated soy protein may be used, but must be shown in the ingredients statement on the product's label by its common name.

Maybe the rule has changed. I should check. I quit eating anything but Kosher hot dogs a long time ago because they always made me sick and I need to know there is no milk in them... they still get to put 3.5% nonfat dry milk in it and call it 100% meat...


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