# Do you put weight on your top covers?



## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

I keep two small concrete type blocks on top, our winds have been hitting in the 40's- 50 mph gusts. They are like a landscape type block.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

i put a rock or 2 on my migratory type cover.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I put a couple of bricks on mine.




... of course, there is always the heavy duty _Aqueous Hurricane Hive Holddown_[SUP]®[/SUP]™ ...


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

I started using concrete bricks when my hives were new, but quickly noticed bees were getting squished inder the lid, and the lid was warping. I went to ratchet straps, they work for me, no weight to them, secures the lid really well, and no bowing/warping. Keeps the lids on in 75mph winds too, we had winds like that in February


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

Rocks,bricks, firewood logs, broken concrete blocks, a pice of marble someone gave me...you name it.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I ratchet strap, too. Though since I keep my bees on my farm, I sometimes just have the ratchet straps open, but running under the pallets, and at the ready instead of fully cranked down 24/7. I keep an eye out for loss-leader, shortish ratchet straps and buy 'em whenever I see them. I haven't had to, yet, but I'm pretty sure you can buy replacement strapping and have it installed on the mechanism should your straps get old and weakened by to much UV exposure.

One of the unexpected side benefits of beekeeping was finally coming to grips with how ratchet straps work and what to do when they get caterwumpus. I always left them in my husband's domain. But having to open and close them all time, in the dark with flashlight held in my teeth, or in driving sleet, or in below-zero temps, taught me what I needed to know. Another essential life skill of my checklist - pity that it took more than 60 years to get that done!

Truckers' knots are on my list for the summer season this year, as I also do a surprising amount of tying-down with my bees.

Enj.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Last winter we had a freakish wind storm that blew one lid more than 200' away. Hive was soaked but survived. Pavers or something from now on.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Heavy weights are a necessity here, and sticks of firewood are nowhere near enough- I had the lids blown off a couple of hives last year. I mostly use big rocks or concrete, but sometimes even that isn't enough, I had a couple of hives blown completely over. But, I live in a valley, with hills that funnel the winds from the west. At one point last Winter, the winds were so strong that I got blown against a fence and couldn't move until they died down.

Ratchet straps seem like they would be a pain in the...neck...but, maybe...


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## Mommyofthree (Aug 23, 2014)

I found a rock that was flat on one side- Works great and it is FREE


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## Silverbackotter (Feb 23, 2013)

I put a weight on all my tops even if they have tie downs. Help prevent the wind from blowing the hive too.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Why when I was a kid we used brontosaurs bones. Back then the winds were so strong that we often got free swarms, hive and all. And they were made of stone in those days. :lpf:


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Tenbears said:


> Why when I was a kid we used brontosaurs bones. Back then the winds were so strong that we often got free swarms, hive and all. And they were made of stone in those days. :lpf:


Must have been hard harvesting those deep supers...of course, maybe it would have been easier being not so far removed from chimps since, pound for pound, they have about 10 times more strength per muscle mass...


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

2 bricks (about 14 pounds less)


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We cast a bent stiff wire in a block of concrete, roughly the size of the bottom half of a gallon milk jug.

Crazy Roland


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

My carni mutts glue everything down so well all I need is a brick for a day or 2 and they take care of the rest


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Retired one gallon paint cans full of sand and with lid. Free and come with handles. 30 MPH not uncommon in the Front Range foothills.
Steve


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I put a couple of bricks or a few rocks on top of mine. I've heard 5 gallon buckets of water work good as a hold down through hurricane force winds :lookout:


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Straps with cam locks - no heavy weight to be lifting, and a clamping force of 100's of pounds which easily holds against our ocasional 80 mph gusts. I started with ratchet straps, but they were too fiddly.














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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I normally use ratchet straps.

Once had a bear raid the yard.
On 6 frame nuc was made of Advantech and ratcheted shut tight, and he couldn't get in.

He batted it , and it Land d about 30 feet away and rolled another ten in very tall grass.

All I had to do was set it back on the stand.

I think the outcome would have been different if I'd used a rock.

Have fun.
Enjoy your bees.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"Do you put weight on your top covers?"

No.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Duplicate post deleted.


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

yes. I had a telescoping cover blow off in a storm last year and the hive was flooded out thru the hole in the inner cover. I used to use the poly straps, but they just break after a while. Not I just put a brick on top.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I would never check my hives if I had to lift a 20 lb block to do so! Best my hives get is a brick.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Two bricks per hive. Had them from a chimney rebuild job I did a few years back. Never had one blow off even in 50 mph winds.


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

Rocks or concrete on many
but I have built a bunch of tops with a 3.5-4" rim. These overlap the hive body enough that they have to come straight up to come off, otherwise they jam up...meaning the wind can't just flip them off. They don't need any weight.
I built them extra deep for winter, so I still get decent overlap when I have both the inner cover and 2" of foam on the top. The fact they don't need weight was an unplanned bonus.

In winter they get weight or tied/ratchet once on the foam, they can be flipped off.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I use large paver stones in the summer months and ratchet straps in the spring, fall, and winter due to high winds. I bought a couple of straps with cams and I may switch to those as they are easier to deal with then ratchet straps.


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

Telescoping covers with a masonry block perched atop. May use a half block when I am having to really reach up.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Telescoping covers with no weight.

Additional weight is not needed IF the telescoping cover has a height of 10 cm/4 inches. If it reaches down four inches, the roof stays on top even in strong storms. No need for weight or straps, nothing.


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## VickyLynn (Jun 20, 2011)

I use ratchet straps all year round, mostly because I am afraid of what the bears would do if they got through the electric fence. It is a pain to unhitch them every time I inspect, but as a previous poster noted, I am getting more skilled at finagling the things.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

So would that weight be a _bucket_?



... most likely not an _empty _bucket ... :scratch:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> So would that weight be a _bucket_?


It can be. And you can fill to what ever comfort level you chose or vary the weight as the conditions change.

You can even let nature fill it for you. With a tap you could empty it back down to your comfort level when you want to get into the hive again.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Wow! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

The Aqueous Hurricane Hive Holddown[SUP]®[/SUP]™ has been enhanced with a new feature.  Continuous_ product improvement_ is a sign of a well managed company. :shhhh: Six Sigma _rules_!

Will you be filing an updated patent application including that tap feature, Ace?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

With an inner lid a weight is pretty much mandatory. We don't use inner lids and only occasionally put a weight on the lid if the occasion calls for it. If it's warm out, the lid will stick down almost immediately. If the hive gets tall a heavy weight will actually be counter productive making the hive top heavy.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I use paver bricks that we removed when we put in a new patio. Probably 8-10lbs apiece, on per hive. Don't have bears though. If we had bears I might use straps but if a bear really wants in a strap isn't going to stop it. I'd probably focus on an electric fence and keep using bricks.


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## dadandsonsbees (Jan 25, 2012)

A couple of bricks per hive. I place them in different configurations so I can tell at a glance what I need to do next to what hive. For example 1 brick on its side and one laying down means need to requeen or supercedure cells present. 
Just my way... doesn't mean it works for everybody.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't put anything on mine. We regularly get thunderstorms with 80 mph straight line winds. A nice spring day will be 35 mph. My migratory tops are flat plywood with no overhang. I have never seen one blow off. The only hives I've had down were by tractors.


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## Silverbackotter (Feb 23, 2013)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> Telescoping covers with no weight.
> 
> Additional weight is not needed IF the telescoping cover has a height of 10 cm/4 inches. If it reaches down four inches, the roof stays on top even in strong storms. No need for weight or straps, nothing.


Not true I have have lost tight fitting 4" telescoping covers.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I have two paver stones on mine. I angle them across the front left and back right corner so more of the weight is on the edges of the cover and not just sitting in the middle to cause sagging. The one I use are about 6"wide by 12" long and an inch thick.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Do you put weight on your top covers?

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/EightTenEightHives.jpg

These are not cinder blocks, they are concrete...


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Probably a relict of an ancient hunter&gatherer religion, stacking rocks and so.

Would at least partly explain why people insist on doing it, while there other technical options (as shown in this thread. No, not the aquaeous honeybee hive lid holder...)


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> If the hive gets tall a heavy weight will actually be counter productive making the hive top heavy.


That only maters if the hive is moving, say on a truck. If the hive is stationary and relatively plumb any weight added anywhere will make it more stable. Honey supers are on top. The hive is more stable when the supers are full vs. empty.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Acebird said:


> That only maters if the hive is moving, say on a truck. If the hive is stationary and relatively plumb any weight added anywhere will make it more stable. Honey supers are on top. The hive is more stable when the supers are full vs. empty.



If you are only considering static conditions doesn’t that make the entire thread not make sense?
“My Seismic restraints work well as long as there is not any earthquake”. My bee hive cover holder works well as long as the wind does not blow?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Acebird said:


> That only maters if the hive is moving, say on a truck. If the hive is stationary and relatively plumb any weight added anywhere will make it more stable. Honey supers are on top. The hive is more stable when the supers are full vs. empty.


It has to be more than "relatively plumb", it also needs to be on a stable and sturdy stand. Here is what I used to see with surprising regularity before we switched over to 4 way pallets:
A hive, if sitting directly on the ground, is supered up with, for example, 2 deeps or 3 mediums or perhaps even more, to give them plenty of room for an anticipated flow and then for good measure a heavy weight is placed on the lid. A nice flow kicks in and now you may well have another 100 lbs. + pounds of weight up high. Then it begins to rain and the ground softens under it and suddenly that hive that was a sturdy little double a few weeks before starts to lean a little bit. Then one of those good ole fashioned summer storms comes rolling through and the next thing you know you are cleaning up a big mess or even worse a hive or 2 is sitting in the shadow of the leaner, you have the domino effect and an even bigger mess. In this scenario the last thing this hive needed was an extra heavy weight on top. 
Believe me, I've had this happen enough times that when supering on a hot day the last thing I am going to do is throw even more weight up on the lid.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

That's why there is a level in the bee truck.(and we use paired hive stands)

Crazy Roland


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> Here is what I used to see with surprising regularity before we switched over to 4 way pallets:


You can't blame the weight on what is called a foundation failure. One of the things that make me cringe is when I see hive stands where the supports are inside the dimension of the box itself. It is not the weight that is the problem if a hive is not put on stable ground.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Acebird said:


> You can't blame the weight on what is called a foundation failure. One of the things that make me cringe is when I see hive stands where the supports are inside the dimension of the box itself. It is not the weight that is the problem if a hive is not put on stable ground.


That's true, believe me everyone I've have ever had to clean up started out looking good to me as a single box sitting on what appeared to be a stable base. Add a couple hundred pounds, a bunch of rain and a strong wind then that heavy weight you hoisted on top of your prized hive like a crown may well be its undoing. Folks, just do yourself a favor if or when you get that great honey crop, rock it a bit to see just how stable it really is. I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just offering a word to the wise.


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## newbury (Jul 19, 2014)

Hogback Honey said:


> I started using concrete bricks when my hives were new, but quickly noticed bees were getting squished inder the lid, and the lid was warping. I went to ratchet straps, they work for me, no weight to them, secures the lid really well, and no bowing/warping. Keeps the lids on in 75mph winds too, we had winds like that in February


I'm using ratchet straps, mainly because I have a lot of them for my tractors and trailer. They wear out sometimes on my long drives, usually requiring trimming the length, so I've the ratchets and short sections which fit the hives well.

If I didn't have the straps already I'd probably just use a hook setup.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I like this clip:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm#topclip

right up until the cover warps. The bricks are helpful at straightening warped covers...


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## Let_it _Bee (May 21, 2004)

I use flat patio bricks when I can and have an assortment of rocks and concrete chunks around. If you use poly covers you would be crazy not too. I also do not trust any hive top that even seems to be glued down to the max by the bees, I once did that and a winter storm blew the tops off two poly nucs.


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## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

I use two paver bricks. Couple years ago I found my dad's old note book that had the "brick code" in it. I messed that up a lot as a kid, lol, I remember thinking, jeez it's the third one to the east with the paint runs by the hand holds. How can you not remember that is the one that needs a super! Of course I never said that, just thought it. 

I now use the "brick code" and can tell you pretty quickly what's going on. 
I like the ratchet strap idea though and have some saved for later use.


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## BeeTax (Dec 27, 2011)

That finally made the light come on for me (no inner covers). Have over 100 hives and have never had a cover blow off nor used anything to hold down the top -- BUT . . . . no one around here uses inner covers and everyone uses migratory covers. 90% of my hives only have a plywood cover with a 3" overhang on the front but no supporting strips of wood down any of the sides, and it still takes me a while to break the hives open to get into them. We don't have wind all the time, but when we do it gets pretty hard and heavy.

I've been wondering for years what is causing everyone to have to weigh down their tops.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

The thing is if you use a solid inner cover it is no different than a migratory cover. The outer cover protects the inner cover from weather and sun. If the outer cover blows off the inner cover is protecting the bees just like a migratory cover. Now if you notch the inner cover for a vent or a top entrance then the tele cover also protects the entrance from rain. I understand why commercials don't use tele covers but they are useful.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

1. Nylon line with a trucker's hitch on the hives where 12-year old boys are around to act out the universal 12-year old boy rite-of-passage -- Beating on a hive with a stick to see what happens.

2. Bricks on other hives --- I use the International Brick Code (surprised no-one has mentioned this). 
International Brick Code:
Brick straight ahead for thrifty hive. 
Brick at right angles for hive needing to be supered. 
Brick on edge for hive needing queen or other treatment.

I suggest using the International Brick Code saves hours of unstrapping, lifting covers and peeking into hives trying to remember what you wrote down on your fancy hive tracking software.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

1. Nylon line with a trucker's hitch on the hives where 12-year old boys are around to act out the universal 12-year old boy rite-of-passage -- Beating on a hive with a stick to see what happens.

2. Bricks on other hives --- I use the International Brick Code (surprised no-one has mentioned this). 
International Brick Code:
Brick straight ahead for thrifty hive. 
Brick at right angles for hive needing to be supered. 
Brick on edge for hive needing queen or other treatment.

I suggest using the International Brick Code saves hours of unstrapping, lifting covers and peeking into hives trying to remember what you wrote down on your fancy hive tracking software.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

JWChesnut said:


> ...I suggest using the International Brick Code...


+1. 

A single brick helps hold a tele-top on, even in occasional very high winds. "The code" is very handy.


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## justme (Apr 28, 2015)

I use bunge cords. Works great!


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

I have 2 good size rocks on mine.


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## DmacShack (May 22, 2013)

I use duct tape. Very cheap and holds migratory lids down nicely.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

Mine are two bricks per hive-- like most responses. Only have added a half concrete block when the wind was fierce.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

Ian G said:


> I was just curious if everyone out there puts something on top of their hives to help hold the lids down? I put about a 20lb concrete block on top. Its a bit of a pain in the neck but im paranoid about the cover blowing off. If you dont place anything on top have you ever had issues? Winds pretty regularly hit 15 mph here, at least 2-3 times per week. About twice a month we'll be 20+.
> 
> I'm adding 30 hives this year and have ran out of concrete blocks which is why I'm wondering. I plan to switch to migratory style covers.


This is my 2 cents on this. I live in Wyoming where the wind is known to blow a little bit from time to time. We'll often have gusts up to 45-60MPH with sustained winds of 30MPH, especially this time of year. I don't put anything on top of my hives. The only time it's been an issue for me is if it gets windy the day after I do an inspection and the bees haven't had a chance to glue everything down with propolis yet.


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## nhoyt (Aug 26, 2013)

After I lost my very first hive this winter do to the cover blowing off I use 2 cinder blocks. The thing that kills me is it was the worst winter that I can remember and if the cover didnt come off they would have made it.


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

Moon said:


> This is my 2 cents on this. I live in Wyoming where the wind is known to blow a little bit from time to time. We'll often have gusts up to 45-60MPH with sustained winds of 30MPH, especially this time of year. I don't put anything on top of my hives. The only time it's been an issue for me is if it gets windy the day after I do an inspection and the bees haven't had a chance to glue everything down with propolis yet.


Wind blowing a little bit in Wyoming. :lpf: The wind blows A LOT in Wyoming! I've been there twice in May and thought I was going to freeze to death, while the locals were walking around in shorts and t-shirts.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

nhoyt said:


> After I lost my very first hive this winter do to the cover blowing off I use 2 cinder blocks.


Weight of 5 gal of water 42 pounds. Weight of 2 concrete blocks 56 pounds.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

One brick on each hive and only on extremely windy conditions. Hives are protected by a high stockade fence.


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## devil dog (Jul 1, 2014)

I don't weight the telescoping covers on my ten frame hives but on the migratory covers on my nucs I use some of the lead ingots I have for casting bullets.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Weight of 5 gal of water 42 pounds. Weight of 2 concrete blocks 56 pounds.


However, those two concrete blocks are a much better choice than one _5 gallon pail of water_ on top of a hive. 

For one, each block can be lifted off individually, for half the weight in each lift. Second, the 'grab height' of a concrete block is much lower than trying to lift a bucket by the handle when that bucket is already several feet off the ground. Third, if the _block _tips accidentally- no big deal.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Another problem with water is when it freezes it expands. Whatever container you're using will crack and when the water thaws it's leaking out, making a 5 gallon bucket useless. A 5 gallon bucket will also degrade in sunlight and unless it's got a top on it all types of critters and mosquito larva living in there. 

In short, anyone who uses a 5-gallon bucket will be quickly taught by the real world there are much better ways to do it.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

nhoyt said:


> After I lost my very first hive this winter do to the cover blowing off I use 2 cinder blocks. The thing that kills me is it was the worst winter that I can remember and if the cover didnt come off they would have made it.


Sorry you lost your hive nhoyt. That's always a crappy feeling. It's weird how resilient bees will be and what will ultimately end up killing them. I've had colonies where the cover has blown off in the middle of a blizzard and been fine for several days before I've caught it and got the lid back on that overwinter without issue and then I've had hives that were really strong and full on stores going into winter that didn't make it through the end of December even though they didn't appear to have any other issues. This last winter I started wrapping my colonies with a layer of TyVek house wrap and a layer of black felt paper and they did wonderful. I think I'm going to continue doing that and overwintering everything in two deeps and a medium.


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