# Hot room design



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I am upgrading my hot room with a new building. I currently use shipping containers. They are ok but I want/need something bigger.

I am planning to put a 40 x 50 room with infloor heat. 
the 50 feet runs east-west
40 feet north south.

The honey has to go eastwards into a quonset where I extract.
I will have an overhead door on the east side leading to the extracting room.
One overhead door on the west side to load/unload hotroom
One overhead door on the south side to load/unload hotroom

On the North side of the hotroom 14 x 50, on floor one, is a bathroom, lunch room/kitchen and room for the boiler.
On the second story I will likely put 2-3 bedrooms.

I think 8-10 ceiling fans should do.
I also have 2 garage heaters I can scavenge from the existing hot rooms to boost the heat. I think they are good for 600 square feet each so I may need a third one.

I think some guys use the hotrooms as wintering sheds as well. I might... I think it would require air intake and exhaust fans only then I would have a wintering building.
I best get these details before construction starts.

Comments? I need basic concepts for air in/out for the wintering shed,size of fans and placements as well as height of said fans.

Thanks.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Sounds like my hot room is much the same size as yours, 50 by 45, floor heat with a 28kw electric boiler and a forced air furnace to help with rebound after opening doors. I have a U channel down the centre for gutter Plumbed into sewer. Insulate under your slab, worth the extra $$
My Wintering room is very basic. I use 10 ceiling fans set on low to mix my room and turned high to create a breeze during warm periods. My air intake is 2, 2'x2' vent holes plumbed with shroud to eliminate light. I have a 18" and a 12" fan on the opposite side of the shed. The small one runs all the time, set on idle at 4 degreesC and ramps up when the room warms. The second purges on at 8 degreesC. All ducting is at the top of the room walls to avoid rodent harbourage. 
I have 1500 units inside, getting full...should of built larger.
My shed is 12' walls because that's all I could afford at the time, wish I built at least 14'


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Thanks Ian. Insulate the slab, good point. I am sure I would have missed that.

Jean-Marc


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

I don't know how cold you let it get when you overwinter hives indoors, but you won't want to let that infloor heating freeze. So glycol or run the boiler enough to prevent freezing or drain and blow out the tubes.
Bill


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jean-marc said:


> Thanks Ian. Insulate the slab, good point. I am sure I would have missed that.
> 
> Jean-Marc


My guys put down 2" under grade foam board. It was a last minute suggestion and I'm glad I spent the extra couple thousand. The floor coils don't need to heat the forever cold ground down before it heats up ( as explained to me)


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## Maybee Apiaries (Jun 23, 2016)

Will 26'x50'' be big enough? I'm adding a hot room of about the same size, and am sure it will be too small fairly soon. 
Also, if you plan on heating the bedrooms, bathrooms etc all winter, but not the wintering building, you might have to carefully plan your in floor heat, with seperate "zones" that keep the warm areas warm and cold area cold. Being that you won't be using it much in the winter, you might be better off with simple forced air system.


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## Maybee Apiaries (Jun 23, 2016)

Ian, is your hot room big enough in the summer, and tight for wintering bees, or is it getting too small all around?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Maybee Apiaries said:


> Ian, is your hot room big enough in the summer, and tight for wintering bees, or is it getting too small all around?


Ya it's getting full through the summer too, but as long as I keep my barrel congestion out of there it's fine. It's about perfect size, if I add anything on it will be a large uninsulated storage shed and covered loading dock. 
I have been told my hot room is too big... lol nope


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ya I run 3 zones. Hot room, extraction room, office


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

Jean-Marc, I know it sounds naive of me to even suggest it but 'beekeeping in western canada' has a bit of the calculations for air movement in it for indoor wintering. As well princess auto sells barn fans with louvers that moves heaps of air and match what is suggested in the book. You can run a bit tighter on the square footage per hive than what they suggest but its a pretty darned accurate number from my experience. I'm running a 30x50x12 shop right now and it isn't the greatest because it is housing 500 hives and all my extracting equipment at the same time. I don't have my slab insulated however it is probably a good idea. I have not had to add any heat this winter with the exception of 2 times when we went below -30. More ceiling fans is necessary as the hives increase and the rows get tighter. I had four last year with 300 hives. I had to add two more this fall after some over temperature issues between a couple rows. I monitor the temperatures in 5 places and humidity in one location and can look at it on my iphone so I have a pretty good idea when i have to adjust temperature control up or down to respond to changing temperatures. I would recommend this feature if you are going to winter inside.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Jean-marc right now doing the same thing, we are putting up a 50x90 barn I am planning on doing 20x50 of that as a hot room/wintering room. I have talked with a few guys and since my ceilings will be 16ft i can stack honey 3 pallets tall thoreticaly the room can hold 6000 supers easily. Looking at in floor heat, the quotes I have gotten are very high 8000$ to heat that small room. After looking online it looks like something that I can do my self with a large hot water heater and a circulating pump or two. Every one I talk to either has infloor or wishes they did. All the general contractors that I have talked to say to put down the 2inch blueboard insulation under the pad and also on the sides of your pour as the heat likes to escape sideways out of your Pad. 

I also am also thinking that I can possibly use that hot room for wintering, it may be small but I am trying to figure out, If I can go with hive density in the 10CFT range as long as the fans are big enough. If so I can put up to 1600 in just that room. It seems to me that as long as the fans can keep the inside air the same temp as out side on the hot days, it should work in fact in my mind It might be better as the room will get warmer so the fans will have to run more thus I wont have to worry about fresh air exchange in the cold parts of winter. If any one can find holes in this let me know.

Not sure if this helps 
Nick


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Ian do you have one long Run of Pex in your hot room or is a few smaller runs of Pex?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

swarm_trapper said:


> Ian do you have one long Run of Pex in your hot room or is a few smaller runs of Pex?


Ya those big rooms ran multiple loops, maybe search online for line layout and design because it's important how the pipe is laid to achieve uniform heating . Off hand I'd say at least 4 loops in that room


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Nick 10 cft pushes those boundaries but I think your thinking is sound. Air exchange is your friend there. 
My shed sits at roughly 20 cft , filled right up it would be 15, but I like to keep nice wide alley ways to allow good air mixing


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

A few questions to ask yourself:
What's the height on your hot room? Easier to make it bit taller so you can double stack your pallets of honey.
Spray foam insulation may cost a few $$$ more and is it worth the investment?
Will you run anything else off your boiler so you get one large enough? We run the floor heat off ours, and an indirect hot water tank. My honey tank is not in my hot room, so I circulate a coil underneath to keep it from crystallizing in the fall. We also circulate a coil in our sugar bin to keep the syrup warm for feeding. Some people also run their heat exchanger off it too.
Although we have a separate wintering building, plenty of people use their hot room for double duty. It has 4 big fans run off a controller and a jet tube air circulation system. Are you planning on having someone live there in the winter to check the building or will remote monitoring with a contingency plan suffice?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

If we ever winter indoors then I would have a person there, or a very good contingency plan. I am thinking that since i am putting the building up as hot room, I may as well take advantage of the possibility of turning it into a wintering shed. At this point it is an extra 5 K, I think but it gives the place better resale value. It would also give us the option of overwintering some over there. At tmes it is tough to find beeyeards in this area and this could be an option. I think it would be good to keep bees there until early to mid february then run them down to the coast. I think the drier air in the wintering shed would be better but I don't have experience to back this up.

Jean-Marc


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Ian said:


> Ya those big rooms ran multiple loops, maybe search online for line layout and design because it's important how the pipe is laid to achieve uniform heating . Off hand I'd say at least 4 loops in that room


If I remember right ours was every 24 inches.

As mentioned insulate below the floor but we ran it around the outside as well. We do not have cheap power like Ian.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Up is cheap space if you are building. If you ever sell the building many applications require a taller interior.

High ceiling also keep the bees out of your hair more. Removing a bunch of the bees from a ceiling corner is a PITA lol.


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## dtp (Jun 4, 2013)

Here is an example of my extracting room. I believe 3 loops in this room. Far end is cold storage. I ran the pex but didn't hook it to the boiler. 4 zones total in the building.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

David Do you have rebar in that Picture? The people I am working with all say to put down Wire and ziptie it to that. Also what did you do for insulation in your walls?


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## dtp (Jun 4, 2013)

The rebar is on top. The pex is stapled to the foam. Has to be underneath so they can lift the rebar up into the center of the slab. Just fiberglass batts in the walls. To expensive to spray foam everything but we did foam the ceiling.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Did you put anything in between the steel and the fiberglass batt? Some one told me that it will mold if placed on steel? I was looking at foam insulation but I could save 6000$ by going with Batt in the sidewalls.


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## dtp (Jun 4, 2013)

It has paper on the outside but they sliced it in places that to prevent future mold issues. The outside of the building is wrapped in house wrap. That separates the insulation from the outside steel


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