# should i use all mediums or deeps and mediums ?



## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

I run all mediums and like everyone says they are lighter. If you are a backyard beekeeper I would recommend it especially if you are over 40. If you plan on making money at it then I would probably go with deeps and mediums like the commercial guys do.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

sfisher said:


> If you plan on making money at it then I would probably go with deeps and mediums like the commercial guys do.


Now that does not sound like much of a recommendation for going all mediums!


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

If you plan on selling nucs, most of the market wants deeps.

If you are planning on using purchased nucs much to expand your apiary, most of the market is selling nucs, and you may have a challenge finding good medium nucs when you find them.

Mediums are lighter, and it is nice to have only one depth of box and frame to deal with.

However, to get the same comb area, you'll have to buy considerably more frames/foundation and an extra box or two per hive.

That's not a big deal if you only plan on having a few colonies, but if you want have many, the expense of the extra equipment might be an important consideration. 

When you start your "bee trip", which vehicle (meds/deeps) is best depends on where you want to get to, and how you want to get there.

And that, my friend, no one else can tell you!


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

I have two deeps on bottom, because I don't pick them up that much and for here, I think that's enough to get them through the winter. I have mediums for supers because they're lighter and get picked up more often. (but if my back keeps going the way it is, I may go to shallow supers.) Also, it's a reminder not to medicate if there's mediums on (because that's where the honey is). But, there are pluses to having all interchangeable equipment, too.

You'll no doubt get lots of opinions. Just take the best of the bunch and figure out what's best for you.

Good luck!


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Slow Modem said:


> I have two deeps on bottom, because I don't pick them up that much and for here, I think that's enough to get them through the winter. I have mediums for supers because they're lighter and get picked up more often. (but if my back keeps going the way it is, I may go to shallow supers.) Also, it's a reminder not to medicate if there's mediums on (because that's where the honey is). But, there are pluses to having all interchangeable equipment, too.
> 
> You'll no doubt get lots of opinions. Just take the best of the bunch and figure out what's best for you.
> 
> Good luck!


SM's got some good thoughts. I run deeps for brood, and meds for honey.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

> I run deeps for brood, and meds for honey.


Ditto, but it is how I have always done it. I am thinking about hiving a swarm this year on all meds and see if I like it.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

deleted.. commented to wrong thread


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I spent a fair amount of time deciding on this one and elected to go with 8 frames for easing the load, but still maintained deeps for brood. I just like the bigger combs for brood, and like that I can easily interface with other beekeepers in terms of nucs and whatnot. Using the 8 frame boxes and mediums for honey supers means significant reduction in weight.

That's what I came to...


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

well thank you to everyone for the great advice. i think what im going to do is go with 8 frame hives with deep brood bodies. it makes more sense to stick with what is standard in the industry...at least for now. especially with wanting to be more than a hobby or backyard keeper. -blesings


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## Scottsman (May 1, 2011)

I did a fair amount of research before starting and even though having only one size frame and box is favorable I decided to stay with industry standards just in case I bought more NUCs. Don't know anyone who sells Medium NUCs, not that they are not out there. If I remember there is about the same surface area in an 8 frame Medium as a 5 frame Nuc. I do have one hive that is all mediums and the last one I have with top entrance only. If my brood is still in the medium when it comes time to split, and it appears that we will split early this year, I will use Mediums.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It costs quite a bit more to provide the same cubic of space for bees in mediums as it does in deeps. That is why my first time in this game i went all deeps. Now I am old and puttering and mediums are very attractive.


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

I currently have both types of hives. Hives with deeps for brood and med for honey , and i have a another hive that somehow got converted to all med. (i think they packed the one deep super full of honey one year and i took it leaving behind a the other 2 med supers that were on the hive)

deeps are heavy, but med take more time to inspect as you have to move more boxes around to cover all the hive. 

I like running a single deep with med on top of it (more med supers for honey) the deep never gets moved, which is why ive considered moving to a dadent deep for the single bottom box. I usually overwinter with a deep and single med super that is full of honey.


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## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

Running mediums are gonna cost you more too. 2 deeps equals 3 mediums. Thus you'll need 3 supers vs 2 and 10 extra frames. Each hive will liely run you and extra $20-$40 dollars. I prefer using 2 deeps for the bees and then mediums for my supers. Deeps aren't so heavy in early spring.


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## Beetastic (Apr 12, 2011)

I am young-ish (or I like to think I still am!... 35) and started with the standard deep brood box with mediums for supers. I thought, "70-80 pounds, I got that." Just for reference, I am a lean 6'2" @195lbs. Last year I switched out to all mediums. Numero Uno - I like the lighter weight. I think it will pay dividends over the years I am going to do this. Also, I really like having the same form factor for everything. I can swap and switch out when I need to: pull a frame of honey or pollen or brood, and it's no skin off my teeth. I also enjoy pulling out the smaller frame size for some reason. Partly because I run foundationless I guess. I don't have to worry about blow-outs or warping as much with the deeps. I don't mind buying a few extra boxes and frames. With the money I save not buying foundation, I like to think it all works out  Plus l find that where I live coupled with the fact that I keep mostly Carniolans, my bees don't need a big deep or large amounts of stores in the winter. I have had some colonies reduce to one medium to overwinter. Heck, they are bringing in tons of pollen and nectar right now, and have been for most of January. I suppose you just need to analyze your style of beekeeping and mix that with a personal philosophy (not hard to come by amongst beeks). If it works for you, do it!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

All the same size frames is wonderful.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize

Lighter boxes are also.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#lighterboxes

The only down side is it costs more because you need more boxes and more frames and the mediums are not significantly cheaper than deeps for either frames or boxes. But I think you'd have to have several hundred hives to save enough to pay for your back surgery...


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

im very undecided as to which route to take hahaha. im pulled towards all mediums...and alot of it being that i already have read and possibly seen you Michael talking about this on youtube. it just makes sense. and since im just starting a desent size yard this year i want to set out the correct way ya know. what would you say are the downsides of going all mediums ? other than needing more boxes and frames for the same amount of storage.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I pretty much use all deeps. I have some mediums around that I use just because I have them, but most hives are all deeps. I don't find the weight difference enough for me to worry about.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I'll know more next year. I currently have 3 that are 10 frame Langs. that have 2 deeps for brood and use med. for honey. I am adding 2 hives in April that will be 10 frame med. only hives. I almost went with 8 frame set ups for the two new hives, but after looking into equivalency to 2 deeps that takes 4 8 frame med. boxes. I felt that being narrower than 10 frame they might be more unstable, especially in windy conditions if they had 3 more harvest boxes on the brood boxes (7-8 boxes total).


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

I tried an experiment when I started last Spring.
Started with five hives. Three had all 10 frame Deep supers, one was an 8 frame with all Deep supers and one 8 frame hive of all Medium supers.

The bees had to make all new comb for themselves and they were started on foundationless frames.
When adding supers to each hive, It was advantageous to be able to pull a frame or two of brood from one super and place it in the same sized super above to get them to move up.

I started a Nuc with mated queen in early August and they are on all deep frames.

Am buying 6 more Nucs this Spring and will be trying the more traditional approach of 2 deep supers on the bottom and the rest of the supers will be mediums. I want to experiment and see how fast the bees build up with that equipment.

Also plan to make more Nucs on Deep frames. As frames of brood get pulled from the Nucs and are added to the main hives, you can hang a deep frame in a stack of two medium supers.
Deep frames like that will be marked so there are no surprises when removing the medium supers for inspection.

The problem last year was getting the bees to draw out and fill 3 deeps of comb before winter.
If I left the 8 & 10 frame deep hives the way they are with three deeps, I'd probably be looking at a 4th or maybe even a 5th deep honey super.
If you run all deeps and you have a super that is maxed out with honey, pull half the frames and place them in another deep before lifting it off the hive.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

See the current thread "how to move from deeps to mediums". When you first start out it would make more sense to run all mediums. If you change your mind you can just convert the medium brood comb to honey comb supers and add deep brood chambers. 

On the other hand you cannot as easily switch to mediums from deeps. Not nearly as hard as putting toothpaste back in the tube, but still a lot more complicated than just adding a second size. 

I run all mediums. Three mediums for brood and the bees, everything above the third box is honey. I do not use excluders


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>what would you say are the downsides of going all mediums ? 

The only downside is cost. The upsides are many. Better wintering in eight frame mediums as the cluster usually spans two boxes. Lighter boxes. Uniform frame size.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Michael Bush said:


> Better wintering in eight frame mediums as the cluster usually spans two boxes.


I don't understand your reasoning here. What is better about spanning two boxes versus one large box?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I don't understand your reasoning here. What is better about spanning two boxes versus one large box? 

Combs make walls between parts of the cluster. Bees cluster int he "aisles". When they are on large combs and a sudden cold snap causes the cluster to contract, bees often get trapped on the outside edge because they can't leave the cluster and climb all the way around the comb to get to the next "aisle". When the cluster spans two boxes there is a gap through the middle of the cluster allowing them to move from one comb to the next without leaving the cluster.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

But on larger comb, there is more honey available closer to them (without the void/gap). Has there been any study that tested the two? I can see a benefit in each, but not sure in reality one is any better than the other.


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## Circeae (Jan 2, 2013)

I will be a first-year bee keeper this spring and couldn't make up my mind on which to use, even with all of the wonderful information on the site. So...I decided to start two hives. One deep with medium supers and one all mediums to see how the two compare for me. The scientist in me can't pass up the opportunity for an experiment...

~ Circ


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I started with both and currently have built up enough deeps to make up 4 double deep hives. so 8 deep boxes. that was in one season before I had "Made my decision". Nothing that will break the bank. I made all my boxes so that is not an issue. but I purchased all the foundation and some of the frames. I will say there is a bit of regret even at this point at that expense.

I would still go with both but maybe try to start the bees foundationless to reduce the sting of changing to just one later. maybe 10 sheets of foundation to get the first box and a half going.

As for my choice. I plan to go all Med. Yes it is more expensive for the same volume but one I do not like lifting a full deep of honey. the person that decided a box should be that big does not like themselves. Just like the guy that figured out how big to make a square bale of hay.

I also noticed that for me even a full deep frame of honey is on the awkward side. I am not out to set any records. I want to get the job done and when I am done be stress free. Getting ticked off at frames that are so heavy you can't lift them with all the pinch you have in 6 fingers does not fit my profile. Plus it is just to close to being dropped even when I do have a hold of it for me. That may be a minor issue but still the little things add up.

Finally I have two daughter and my wife tend to like to help with my hives. If I find it umcomfortable to lift a full deep. I obviously cannot expect them to do it. They could team up if necessary.

In the end I prefer to "Do it right" and I mean right for myself and those helping me. I can cut down all those deep fraems or make up deep nucs and sell them off. In all I do not need to repeat the cost but I may have paid a bit more than I needed to and will have to invest a lot more work than was necessary.

In the end I would do it this way again just to come up with that for me very clear reason I am choosing what I am. This way every time I have to put together or pay for that extra box. I am perfectly clear on what I am paying for.


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## stripstrike (Aug 29, 2009)

I started my original two on 8 frame mediums. It was a little tricky to find nucs to get started but not impossible. Since then I've never looked back. Material costs are slightly higher at first but eventually you'll have to buy more at a whack which lets you get a bigger discount depending on your supplier. I do make my own tops and some bottoms here and there so I save where I can.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I started out with the traditional double deep + medium supers set up on all my hives (10-12 colonies is my average). I later ended up switching over to all mediums, and consider it one of the best changes I've made in my beekeeping approach. Being well past my physical prime the weight difference was important to me, but the main benefit I've realized is having standard sized interchangeable frames. 

My biggest headache, and I'm sure many others will agree with this, was not having enough drawn deep comb in the spring when it's needed the most for swarm control. When the early flow kicks in and the bees begin to backfill the brood nest in swarm preparation, what can you do to stop them from swarming? I never seemed to have enough empty deep frames available to "open up" the broodnest. Reversing works to a point but it wasn't always enough to stop them from swarming. Inserting frames with foundation doesn't seem to work during swarm preparation either, it's too early and they just ignore it. 

With all mediums I can switch boxes, move frames around, and control swarming much more effectively. Sure, there is an extra up front cost per colony when using mediums, but by preventing the colony from swarming just one spring I can make up the difference in honey yield by keeping the colony intact, and avoiding swarming or having to split it. 

Larger operations don't have this problem because they typically have enough surplus equipment available, but a beekeeper with just a handful of colonies usually does not have an abundance of extra equipment around. If your bees overwinter well and you have few deadouts then you're faced with a shortage in the spring when you need extra equipment the most. 

So the cost argument loses it's credibility with me for that reason as well. It costs me extra money to have surplus drawn deeps in the shop along with the supers, waiting for spring to arrive. With all mediums I can reduce the amount of extra equipment needed because they can be used for both. 

I know this is not for everyone, but it's just something to consider.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Barry said:


> But on larger comb, there is more honey available closer to them (without the void/gap).


First there is no more honey in a given area of comb on a large frame than there is on a small frame. X number of bees only cover so much space.
That there is no gap on a larger frame is exactly what was being mentioned as the difference. The bees use that gap as an access to the cluster or a passage to contract as the temperature drops. bees on larger frames do not have this passage and the cluster is not able to remain as consolidated. That is is how I understand the claim anyway. The gap you say is a problem others say is the solution.


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## emdadjut (Feb 3, 2013)

A thing can't bee the same to everyone. It may have some importance to one but no importance to another. matters do works this way. So, it may be what is a solution to you that is a problem to another.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Daniel Y said:


> First there is no more honey in a given area of comb on a large frame than there is on a small frame. X number of bees only cover so much space.


Except when there is a gap, a wood top bar, and a wood bottom bar, going through the cluster



> That there is no gap on a larger frame is exactly what was being mentioned as the difference.


And I'm questioning if this difference really makes a difference in bees overwintering better or worse.



> The bees use that gap as an access to the cluster or a passage to contract as the temperature drops. bees on larger frames do not have this passage and the cluster is not able to remain as consolidated. That is is how I understand the claim anyway.


I understand this in theory. In my experience, bees still die even with those gaps available. I founf one of my hives dead last week. I use all mediums. The cluster covered three combs, all at the far end. They had "access gaps" above, below, and to the side. They still starved. My point is, I don't think it matters what size comb you have, if it gets so cold that the bees won't break cluster to move, they will eventually run out of stores and starve. Sooner on mediums if the gaps and wood bars take up some of their clustering space.



> The gap you say is a problem others say is the solution.


It didn't help my bees.


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