# Beekeeping Equipment and Ideas That Are No Longer With Us



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

A recent thread entitled "Hive Feeding System" got me thinking...and remembering.

What hive hardware or furniture can you remember that was around for awhile and now gone? What management techniques were popular and now no longer practiced?

I remember one piece of beekeeping hardware that was advertised back in the 70's, that supposedly stopped swarming. The "No Swarm Cluster Frames" were advertised for years in every bee magazine. They were similar in shape to a follower board, but had slots to allow bees to pass through. They looked a bit like a plastic queen excluder, but hung vertically, one between each comb in the broodnest.

I inherited a box of them from somebody long forgotten. I don't know anyone who ever used them, and I've never used them...they're in my museum.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I remember the no swarm cluster frames which I once asked an experienced beekeeper about. He said they were junk that caused brood to freeze in early spring. Quite a few people must have bought them, they were advertised for about 20 years.

I would put the jumbo hive in the category along with most hive modifications such as the Stewarton hive that have been tried over the years. Someone comes along every few years and decides to build a jumbo thinking it is somehow new or improved over current designs. I can point out several advantages jumbos have over Langstroth size boxes, but those advantages are countered by the weight of a full jumbo which can top 150 pounds.

There was also the solar cooled hive which had a solar electric panel tied to one or more muffin fans in a deep brood chamber on top of the colony. The intent was to suck cool air in at the bottom of the hive and vent it at the top.

I would probably put follower boards in this category, not because they are unused today, but because they are no longer used the way they were described in the early literature. At the time, they were intended to constrict the broodnest which was claimed to reduce swarming and improve wintering success.

Do you remember the "Bee Master Super Queens" from the same time frame?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Fusion_power said:


> There was also the solar cooled hive which had a solar electric panel tied to one or more muffin fans in a deep brood chamber on top of the colony. The intent was to suck cool air in at the bottom of the hive and vent it at the top.


I remember that one. It was made here in Vermont...I knew the advertising exec who promoted it.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Fusion_power said:


> Do you remember the "Bee Master Super Queens" from the same time frame?


I don't.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

Actually I built some solar muffin fan cooling stages but it hasn't reached temps where they were needed. The hives seemed to cool off sufficiently with simply a stage of screened 2" vent holes located below the top cover. Perhaps this summer will be hot enough to justify connecting the two 2" fans to a solar panel; more likely I'll never connect them to a solar panel.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

When I worked for an old commercial beek in the early seventies, his equipment was fascinating to me. Every style of frame imaginable. I always wanted to 'collect' things like frames of all aluminum comb that were mixed in, and other oddities. I was afraid to ask and not a thief so I missed that opportunity.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Menthol Crystal Baggies? Are those still sold by equipment suppliers?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes, I just saw some yesterday in new Blues sky or brushymountain catalogs.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

the precursor to the small cell frames for varroa , the original plastic frames that were tried for varroa were extra large cell, they came from germany I believe and were larger cells than normal, the thinking was the extra food would decrease the time to hatch and you would end up with less mites. I got a few deeps of these when a friend gave up bees, never used them and they went on the scrap heap, should have saved them I'm sure over time they will come around again. expensive too.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I remember Steve Taber's Ultra Yellow bees. They were too, very light golden yellow, much more striking than today's Cordovan bees.

I also remember and used the Hogg Half Comb Cassette system of comb honey, I have not been able to find them available any more.

I would also put the Drone trap, some call it the Queen and Drone trap, for the front of the hives. I don't see them for sale in any of the supply houses I frequent. The only time I've seen them in use was in Sue Cobey's bee yard at UCD here in Davis, California. She used them as drone traps for use in her instrumental insemination of honey bee queens there in Davis, CA.

I have a tool for helping newbees to mark queens, it is a 1/8" mesh wire, round, about the size of a quarter, maybe larger, that has a rim around it with a short 2 inch handle. The wire was coned up on one side sightly. It was used to pin the queen on the comb and then you can mark her through the 1/8" mesh wire. I've not seen that one for sale in a few years either. I suspect that some queens may have been damaged from pushing down on her too hard, but this is just a supposition on my part.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

RayMarler said:


> I also remember and used the Hogg Half Comb Cassette system of comb honey, I have not been able to find them available any more.


Search BS ....in the last couple of days there are posts about where you can still get them. Herman ??? bought the rights and is selling them now.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes SNL, I saw that thread, but the web page link shows only honey comb products for sale, not the actual supers or refill kits. No matter, as I do cut comb honey instead now, but the Hogg system was pretty nice and made a very good looking and marketable product.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Call Herman......he has it all....supers, refills, ribbons everything. Tell him that his website is misleading...


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Ray,

It seems to me I have seen that Betterbee has the Hogg system now.

Tom


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

I am not sure if this is the same solar ventilation unit or not. But, Simpson's list one in their catalog. Here is a link to a pdf, scroll down to page 4. No pictures.

http://www.simpsonsbeesupply.com/BEECAT_2014.pdf

Tom


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Yes, Bee Cool was the one.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

RayMarler said:


> I also remember and used the Hogg Half Comb Cassette system of comb honey, I have not been able to find them available any more.


I just received a Facebook post from Betterbee and that they are retuning and they will be carrying them.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

"Do you remember the "Bee Master Super Queens" from the same time frame?"

I do. They ran full page adds with a picture of a hive stacked way up with supers next to one with just a few, proudly proclaiming this was the difference between their(overpriced) queens and the other guys queens. Yeah right.There are still hucksters in this business!

How about durajunk? Is Dadant still selling this? I have a wedge insertor tool somewhere collecting black widow nests.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

back in the 70's kelly came out with a big plastic bag that held one deep frame. a big rubber band went around it you put it in the hive and filled it with syrup. was not a bad idea but any sharp corner or nail caused them to leak. we used them one year in sc and gave up on them. the bag expanded when filled killing bees and brood on the frames next to it. as to the future my guess would be top bar beekeeping and small cell. lol


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Loggermike I remember UPGRADING to duragilt from wired medium brood. Duragilt is fine once you get it drawn. I just remember how tedious embedding wire was and the duragilt was just so darn much faster to put in. I have about 30 pounds of it so I guess I will be using it for a while in my now hobbyist world.


loggermike said:


> "Do you remember the "Bee Master Super Queens" from the same time frame?"
> 
> I do. They ran full page adds with a picture of a hive stacked way up with supers next to one with just a few, proudly proclaiming this was the difference between their(overpriced) queens and the other guys queens. Yeah right.There are still hucksters in this business!
> 
> How about durajunk? Is Dadant still selling this? I have a wedge insertor tool somewhere collecting black widow nests.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Do they still sell a "bee brush" to brush the bees off a full frame of honey? Bee Go and blowers replaced them.

We still use basswood section comb honey, single deep brood chambers, rolled up long sleeve shirts(no hoods/suits), and sit on a stool when inspecting the hive.

crazy Roland


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## homesteader824 (Jun 9, 2012)

Roland said:


> Do they still sell a "bee brush" to brush the bees off a full frame of honey?
> crazy Roland


I think they still sell them, but I hardly use a brush any more. It really seems to anger the bees. I used it mostly to move bees out of the way when I was stacking supers after inspecting the hive. I heard one beekeeper say he used a feather; I think a turkey feather, but don't remember for sure.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Bee Brush...necessary for removing the bees from the grafting frame. Shaking can dislodge the young larvae.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

The Beemaster Super Queens! Yes!! I remember!!! Made a "contribution" to them once. Never got no stinkin queens either. Kept calling. We will refund your money they said........still waiting.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Help me out here Mike. Was it Tabor that sold the AFB resistant queens bred on a NC island? (I think). Bought some of those. Pretty good queens but maybe the meanest bees I have ever dealt with. We marked the hives, didn't need to, they reminded you every time you opened a lid on one.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How about aluminum foundation? It lingers out there in one or two of my supers but I bet no one sells it anymore. I never saw it as foundation, only under drawn comb.

Sulfathiazole to combat AFB and EFB.
Arsenic to combat skunks. Used to ba able to buy it at the pharmacy. Or was that stricnine?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> Help me out here Mike. Was it Tabor that sold the AFB resistant queens bred on a NC island? (I think). Bought some of those. Pretty good queens but maybe the meanest bees I have ever dealt with. We marked the hives, didn't need to, they reminded you every time you opened a lid on one.


I know Walter Rothenbeuler developed such a queen. But I don't know if he or his research team sold them. 100% AFB resistant but a poor honey producer is what I heard. That was back in 1953 or 55 I think.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> Help me out here Mike. Was it Tabor that sold the AFB resistant queens bred on a NC island? (I think). Bought some of those. Pretty good queens but maybe the meanest bees I have ever dealt with. We marked the hives, didn't need to, they reminded you every time you opened a lid on one.


Not sure Jim. It may have been Charles Mraz's stock. He did have someone in NC raising his queens and they were mean. With his stock in your apiary, you put your veil on before you got out of the truck. I do remember, the breeder was located in Harrels, NC. Is that near that island?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> I know Walter Rothenbeuler developed such a queen. But I don't know if he or his research team sold them. 100% AFB resistant but a poor honey producer is what I heard. That was back in 1953 or 55 I think.


That may have been the stock from Dadant's wax plant. The bees in that apiary would rob the old comb that came in for rendering and were constantly exposed to AFB. They developed resistance to AFB. When the plant stopped taking in old comb, the stock lost the resistance because they were no longer exposed.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

jim lyon said:


> The Beemaster Super Queens! Yes!! I remember!!! Made a "contribution" to them once. Never got no stinkin queens either. Kept calling. We will refund your money they said........still waiting.


Were they in Mississippi by chance?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> Not sure Jim. It may have been Charles Mraz's stock. He did have someone in NC raising his queens and they were mean.


yup that's who it was. Seems like I bought 100 of them when I was still wintering bees in central Minnesota.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I thought a goose wing replaced the bee brush. 


Roland said:


> Do they still sell a "bee brush" to brush the bees off a full frame of honey? Bee Go and blowers replaced them.
> 
> We still use basswood section comb honey, single deep brood chambers, rolled up long sleeve shirts(no hoods/suits), and sit on a stool when inspecting the hive.
> 
> crazy Roland


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I remember one piece of beekeeping hardware that was advertised back in the 70's, that supposedly stopped swarming. The "No Swarm Cluster Frames" were advertised for years in every bee magazine. They were similar in shape to a follower board, but had slots to allow bees to pass through. They looked a bit like a plastic queen excluder, but hung vertically, one between each comb in the broodnest.

I think the ones I have are labled Bee Master or Swarm Master or something like that. Someone gave me a bunch of them, and I sawed them down to mediums (one of the crosspieces was in the exactly the right place) and used them as followers when I have excess space left over in a box. I never tried them for what they were designed for.

I remember the aluminum comb and have seen, and inherited a few of them. Interesting stuff. I'm sure several thousand gadgets have come and gone along the way. If you searched for patents you'd probably find thousands of them that were patented. Most of them were "revolutionary" according to their advertisements anyway...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

For those interested in more details of the _aluminum _comb, Dave Cushman has a page, including photos, devoted to this:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/alicomb.html


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I came across an OLD plastic frame which snapped a sheet of wax foundation in between the two halves. Must of been invented by some poor old beekeeper trying to find a better way than wiring and melting in sheets of wax! This plastic frame has vertical and horizontal bracing which you would think would cause some problems but the frame was perfectly drawn out. It hit my rendering pile because it did not fit my machines, wish I had kept it around just for a conversation piece.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Roland said:


> Do they still sell a "bee brush" to brush the bees off a full frame of honey? Bee Go and blowers replaced them.


Yes, I have a couple. I use them exclusively. I've thought about a blower, but for the quality I'd want the the lack of other things I'd use it for, I can't yet justify it. I do need a shop vac though...

There are a number of things that I no longer use, like entrance feeders, top feeders, and frame feeders. There are a couple of other things I've tried that are totally worthless but are still sold like the spur embedder. But the one total failure of a product that I purchased was the plastic small cell foundation from Dadant. It seems like it was molded from wax foundation only a little thicker. It therefore had insufficient cell base depth for the bees to ever build on it. I never got a single frame to take. If they would touch it at all, they'd cross comb.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I remember hives being painted a metallic silver. 
Was the metallic paint common years ago?

I'm tempted to start painting my hives a metallic silver to give them a "retro" look.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Roland said:


> Do they still sell a "bee brush" to brush the bees off a full frame of honey? Bee Go and blowers replaced them.
> 
> We still use basswood section comb honey, single deep brood chambers, rolled up long sleeve shirts(no hoods/suits), and sit on a stool when inspecting the hive.
> 
> crazy Roland


I can't imagine using a blower on queen cells.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I saw some old magazine pages or old bee catalog pages of bees and bee stuff for sale here on besource, I think there was some gadgets list also.

Anyone remember that or have a link?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

BeeCurious said:


> I remember hives being painted a metallic silver.
> Was the metallic paint common years ago?


Oh yeah. I still have plenty of boxes painted with aluminum paint.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

When I started it seemed to be the law that boxes were painted white. Then I saw the big pile of mis tinted house paint at Sears selling for a dollar a gallon.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Fusion_power said:


> I would put the jumbo hive in the category.... Someone comes along every few years and decides to build a jumbo thinking it is somehow new or improved over current designs. I can point out several advantages jumbos have over Langstroth size boxes, but those advantages are countered by the weight of a full jumbo which can top 150 pounds.


The death of the "Jumbo" (Dadant hive) has nothing to do with weight or size. It has to do with the Standardization of sawmills in the USA where it became impossible to get sawn stock wider than 12 inch rough sawn. So to avoid having to join boards together the manufacturers just stopped producing all boxes with a depth in excess of the standard available board stock. Outside the USA they are quite popular to this day and in some areas they are the commercial standard.


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## paintingpreacher (Jul 29, 2006)

In the 70's there was a product advertised by the name Comb Cleaner. Was supposed to help the bees clean out old combs, restoring them to their original size. Adds said "No need to render old combs". Never used it, don't know if there is such a product today.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

It was posted previously:

I remember hives being painted a metallic silver. 

I represent that remark. Over half our equipment is still painted silver.

Crazy Roland


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

The guy up north of us (7000+ hives) has probably about 75% of his equipment painted silver.


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## KDM (Jul 12, 2007)

Kelley had a device for putting glue on labels. They also had a metal frame wiring device with a transformer that heated the wire for the foundation. I have many old bee journals dating back to the 1890s that have a lot of past inventions for sale. They even sold super bees from all over the world.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

KDM said:


> K...old bee journals .


Have a bunch of such journals here, too, in German , dating 1905-1910. Quite some reports about beekeeping in North America. I will scan the images of the apiaries, maybe some of you find your old family business in those pictures. 

At that time many inventions have been sold. For example: before the plastic foundation they sold a wooden foundation with all the cells carved out onto a thin wooden sheet. And yes, queens and bees from all over the World. So nothing new in beekeeping.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I inherited one of the metal frame wiring frame jigs. Been trying to figure out how to use it. Maybe I will move the transformer over to my wiring board. 
David


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Here are a few additional "blasts from the past" I'm sure I'll think of more
Dadant's Quick-Gro pollen sub.
Meyer's Ezy Loader and fluorescent road runner nets (many of both still in use no doubt)
AI Root Bee supplies
Woodman bee supplies (especially the old smokers with the cool logo)
The original Walter T Kelley logo with Walter's head on a queen bee.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>For example: before the plastic foundation they sold a wooden foundation with all the cells carved out onto a thin wooden sheet.

Apparently here as well:
At the time I was experimenting with artificial combs with wooden cells in which the queen laid."--Jay Smith, Better Queens page 18
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#Queen Alice


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

I met mr kelley a few times. as far as his logo with his head on a bee, he said "if you make a dam fool of yourself people will remember you". never forgot that statement.


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## chris bright (Feb 20, 2012)

I saw the Dadant Jumbo super used as brood chambers in Russia a few years ago. They were referred to as Dadanti and had been in use for some time in many of the bee yards I visited.


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## chris bright (Feb 20, 2012)

I sure wished I could have met the man, I loved his approach to life and he made the best drum dolly, a ninety pound weakling could tip over a drum of honey and wheel it away with minimum strain.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beeware10 said:


> I met mr kelley a few times. as far as his logo with his head on a bee, he said "if you make a dam fool of yourself people will remember you". never forgot that statement.


Me too. He gave Phil Mariola and I a tour of all of the different parts of the business. Then, when Phil kept asking him questions, he told us the tour was over and he was going to see his wife at the hospital which he did everyday at lunch time. I wish I could have spent more time w/ him. An interesting guy.


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

RayMarler said:


> I have a tool for helping newbees to mark queens, it is a 1/8" mesh wire, round, about the size of a quarter, maybe larger, that has a rim around it with a short 2 inch handle. The wire was coned up on one side sightly. It was used to pin the queen on the comb and then you can mark her through the 1/8" mesh wire. I've not seen that one for sale in a few years either. I suspect that some queens may have been damaged from pushing down on her too hard, but this is just a supposition on my part.


Kelley's sells these things. I thought it was a pretty cool idea...but I can still see a mashed queen here and there with it.


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## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

That's a baldock cage I have one they are from the UK-they are great for queen marking and much better than the plastic ones that the US suppliers make. Kelly must have just started carrying them because I tried to find one for a long time with no success and so I eventually found one from a supplier in Canada. What makes them so good is you press them in just a little bit into the comb and blow on the area, the pins are spaced just wide enough for workers to fit they will all run out from under it. Then when its just the queen you GINGERLY press it to just pin the queen down on the wax for marking then lift and while its still around the queen let the paint dry. Just make sure that you stick it into a piece of Styrofoam or something soft other than Flesh when it is not in use...


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Baldock I got mine last year and love it. Need to get more comfortable handling queens. 
David


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>but I can still see a mashed queen here and there with it. 

I stabbed one with it once... and mashed one once... but the hardest thing about it is carrying it in your pocket...

How about cellaring bees? Don't know anyone doing it now, though I've considered it for nucs...


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## Kidbeeyoz (May 8, 2013)

We had an equipment supplier that made plastic frame ends, and the top and bottom bars would push into a slot made in them. With the introduction of SHB they stopped manufacturing them as the plastic parts were hidey holes for the beetles.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The Heddon reversible frame is no longer talked about, nor reversing boxes for swarm control...

Here are some quotes from the late 1800s books and journals:
Here are a couple of quotes from books of the time:

"REVERSIBLE FRAMES.

"While the reversing of brood combs will produce no ill effects whatever, numerous are the advantages arising from such reversal; some of which aid us materially in accomplishing the desired results which are partially accomplished in the contracting system, above described.

"When using frames even no deeper than the standard Langstroth, you know how the bees (especially Italians) will persist in crowding the queen by storing honey that ought to go into the surplus department, along the upper edge of the brood combs, just under the top bar, and farther down in the upper corners, till by actual measurement we find that nearly one-fourth of each frame, and sometimes more, is occupied with honey.

"Now if we reverse the frame containing a comb so tilled, we place the honey in an unusual position; in a place usually occupied with brood, and when this is done in the breeding season, when the bees are not inclined to decrease their quantity of brood, this honey will be immediately removed to the surplus department, and soon the frame will be one solid sheet of brood, which is a glad sight to the bee-keeper whose experience has taught him the value of a compact brood nest, free from honey."--Success in Beeculture by James Heddon Pg 85


It seemed a pretty common subject:

"REVERSIBLE BROOD FRAMES.

"The engraving represents the reversible brood-frame made by Mr. James Heddon. Many devices have been presented to reverse the frames, but this is as good as any, where reversing is desired."--Bees and honey, or, The management of an apiary for pleasure and profit by Thomas G. Newman pg 44


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't know how popular or even effective this idea is or was, but, I heard that at one time it was thought that if one took a brood chamber infected w/ AFB and turned it upside down that the bees would tear down the comb and rebuild it thereby destroying and removing the AFB, even the scale.

Has anyone other than me heard of such an idea?

Do not try this at home.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Never heard that one. I did hear once that one can eliminate swarming by turning the hive upside down for a day on a regular schedule and doing so would defeat all cell raising attempts. I don't recall the exact time schedule, seems like it would have to be far less than a week. I found it quite improbable and amusing. It would be an interesting experiment, though.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Maybe my memory is faulty and that is what it was about, swarm control.


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## Davidnewbeeboxbuilder (Oct 6, 2012)

You would bee suprised how many people who quit keeping bees cause the count find no more starlines or midnight queens around here they must have been the it for the honey producer.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Kelley had a device...They also had a metal frame wiring device with a transformer that heated the wire for the foundation.

You mean like this: 
https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/43/Hives-Components/Foundation-Accessories/4288/Electric-Embedder


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## Nardi (Jan 22, 2013)

A few years back, I acquired 3 doublewalled 10 frame hives, with telescoping covers that are about 8" long. Very heavy, but in great shape. I was told the person kept the hives inside the barn, with exits for the bees. Included with all the equipment was a vail that seemed to be constructed from a grain/flour sack, a felted hat and a piece of metal window screen.


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