# Round up ready Alfalfa



## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Hey Keith,

I found this: Monsanto Wins as Court Backs Alfalfa Seed Planting

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...urt-backs-alfalfa-seed-planting-update2-.html

Which says the USDA will allow for "limited" planting as it studies the "issue."

And this article says that it will be on the market again in Spring of 2011.

http://westernfarmpress.com/alfalfa/roundup-ready-alfalfa-seed-sales-expected-resume-spring


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## dmpower (Nov 7, 2010)

You may also want to search Purdue University for some information on this.


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## bhfury (Nov 25, 2008)

Is RR Alfalfa bad for bees? I do have several hives on alfalfa.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

We put up 2500 hay bales each year to supplement feed our cattle operations. 
As soon as we get the chance we are going to grow RR alfalfa. Its not available here yet. This stuff will provide huge advantages to our farm. The main issue that it will solve is control of our fox tail grass problem. Fox tail is completely unpalatable and crepes into higher saline fields reducing the quality of our the feed. Fox tail is killed with roundup, and if a RR Alfalfa is grown, we will get a nice clean cut extending our field life span.

Two thumbs up from this vantage point.


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## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

but how is it for honey production? will it yield the same amount? does it bloom longer-shorter ect. some of us are quite dependant on alfalfa for honey crops.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

OMG Ian, OMG! You're going over to the dark side and using Monsanto seed and chemicals? OMG! Why not just hire several hundred of those "workers" spoken of in the thread about Bayer in BK101? Let 'em hoe the weeds and then eat what they hoe! :lookout:


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

gregstahlman said:


> but how is it for honey production? some of us are quite dependant on alfalfa for honey crops.


Key word here is alfalfa seed production.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian: How long do you typically let a field of alfalfa go before rotating into another crop. Around here seems like after 8 to 10 years production falls enough that it needs rotated into something else for a couple years. Works good to clean up weeds and grass.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>OMG Ian, OMG! You're going over to the dark side and using Monsanto seed and chemicals

We also grow RR Canola 

>>long do you typically let a field of alfalfa go before rotating into another crop

5 years unless it starts failing earlier because of perennial weed problems. When grassses move in, it decreases the production volume, but still makes good feed. But when \foxtail moves in, the field becomes useless.

I doubt adding the RR gene will interfere with the nectar production of the plant. It didn't interfere with canola nectar production.

I agree with Keith, seed production is where its at. Here we also get nice little rewards off the second growth later inthe year


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment/2010-06-21-roundup-weeds_N.htm

Sounds like Roundup Ready genes may contribute in the selection of very tough weeds and nastier herbicide usage down the road. Roundup Ready alfalfa may sound good in the short term, but will it really be good for bees in the long term?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

How does the RR gene make the plant tougher?


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Very strong and consistent selection pressure for Roundup resistant weeds, which are already showing up. Herbicide resistance means tougher to control weeds and eventually the use of other materials to control them which may be harder on our bees. Large scale monoculture crops likely can not exist without broad scale herbicide application, so hopefully the concept of resistance management is being at least considered. This works similar to how Apistan used to work until the resistant population of mites was all that was left and then another material becomes the silver bullet for a while. Good business for the silver bullet makers. 

RR genes can move into traditionally cultivated crops thus opening up all sorts of patent infringement issues. Monsanto has shown that is very willing to sue any farmer where the RR gene pops up, even if it was inadvertent. Wind and pollinators carry genetic material to unexpected places and if the trait shows up there, Monsanto still owns it. Escape GMO traits can be considered a form of genetic pollution that opens many farmers up to liabilities even if they did not purchase or plant RR seeds.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JBJ said:


> Escape GMO traits can be considered a form of genetic pollution that opens many farmers up to liabilities even if they did not purchase or plant RR seeds.


I think this is a little much of a strech. 


Most of the reports that are against RR are greenee supported.

Just like the GMO corn that was the cause of CCD.

Let's take a futher look.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Normally when you see weeds develop Round-Up resistance is when a farmer plants a Round-Up Ready crop every year, and they spray Round-Up to control weeds year after year after year and the weeds have constant pressure.

Around here, farmers let a field of alfalfa stay in alfalfa for 5 or 6 years. Spraying Round-Up on an alfalfa field every year for 5 or 6 years (or more) would start causing problems with weeds developing Round-Up resistance. It wouldn't be any different than a farmer alternating RR corn and RR bean crops and spraying Round-Up on the same field year after year.

I doubt RR alfalfa will affect nectar production. Does it affect RR soybean nectar production?

I would be more worried if they came out with an alfalfa that was resistant to the alfalfa weevil by implanting a systemic pesticide into the plant, similar to BT corn. (IIRC, BT corn pollen has been shown to be toxic to Monarch butterflies.)

I'm not going to freak out if farmers start planting RR alfalfa near my bees.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBJ View Post
Escape GMO traits can be considered a form of genetic pollution that opens many farmers up to liabilities even if they did not purchase or plant RR seeds.

"I think this is a little much of a strech." K Jarrett

Tell that to the farmers who have been and are currently being sued by Monsanto.
http://www.percyschmeiser.com/
http://www.nelsonfarm.net/
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Goliath_and_David:_Monsanto's_Legal_Battles_against_

What happens when pollen with the trait is wind blown or transported by bees to neighboring farms who specifically don't want the RR trait? One the genie is out of the bottle it can not be put back.

Who knows, there may be an upside to RR weeds... most weeds tend to be desirable for bees, and if they are harder to get rid of?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>selection of very tough weeds and nastier herbicide usage 

>>Herbicide resistance means tougher to control weeds 

RR plants doesne make for tougher weeds. IF they become resistant to roundup, they are simply that, resistnat to roundup. Just like our resistant wild oats to group one herbicides. No different plant, just resistant to group one, so we use a group 2. 

The scarry thought that the RR gene might get blown around.... who cares. Deep till the stuff under, hit it with 24D. Ive been using RR Canola for over 10 years. Think I see a problem with my weed control yet? ITs all about crop rotation and chemical rotation.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You actually think schmeiser was innocent? Small time farmer trying to stick it to the big chemical company.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JBJ said:


> Tell that to the farmers who have been and are currently being sued by Monsanto.


John, I didn't read anything about RR ALFALA seed production, that is the thread. Where RR wants to grow seed is in isolated desert valleys then use for Hay. 

Canoila seed maybe a different deal but im talking about alfalfa. Alfala hay here in Calif never blooms they cut it 7-8 times a year.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

nearly year round crop growth, what a thought. just need the water I guess. 
Would you know the tonnage off that land per acre?


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