# interesting way to combine 3 mating nuc's



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Don't have to go overseas to see mating nuc management. I have 4 ways that become 2 ways and give up 2 queens, and then give up 2 more queens and 2 nucs in the spring.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Michael Palmer said:


> Don't have to go overseas to see mating nuc management. I have 4 ways that become 2 ways and give up 2 queens, and then give up 2 more queens and 2 nucs in the spring.


share with us if you would!


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Shaking all the bees out and letting them run back home is one way to combine 2 colonies but it takes a lot of unnecessary time and work to do this and I would think especially with mating nucs. 
We have used 4ways in a medium box and when we are done we pick three of the queens and consolidate the bees and brood into one medium box designed for the small frames. There aren't problems with them being put together, maybe because the brood is all moved too and they are so disoriented. Their small size is no doubt a factor. It takes under 5 minutes.

I have heard of using removable dividers in full size boxes to make 4 nucs, then taking the dividers out as you pick the queens, ending up with a single box with combined bees and one queen. 

One positive of the video is that it looks easy on the bees and looks like fun to watch, but they could also more easily be allowed to run directly into the new box; they will all be united in their hurry to get inside with whatever queen is left.
Sheri


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

TwT said:


> share with us if you would!


I will when I have the time...picking up feeders, and preparing to wrap. Tried once already...dialup won't let me post the photos...grrr.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

...picking up feeders

Are you picking up feeder pails/buckets?
Ernie


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> ...picking up feeders
> 
> Are you picking up feeder pails/buckets?
> Ernie


Gallon cans. Store them in wooden boxes that held guns...34 cans/box


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> I will when I have the time...


My mating nucs are 4 ways. Deep frames cut to about half length. When raising queens, each half is divided by a movable feeder...creating 4 chambers.

Catching queens.










When queen rearing is finished, one of the queens is caught, and the other is given all 8 combs by moving the feeder to the sidewall. Both sides are managed in this way.










The mating nucs are wintered in this 8 frame configuration. Come spring, you have to deal with exploding mating nucs. They often have 6-7 frames of brood by mid-May. This year, I removed most of the brood and bees from one side, leaving the queen and two frames of brood and bees. I added two empty combs and two foundations. I left two frames of honey at the sidewalls.

The other side of the box also has an 8 frame mating nuc, equally as strong. For this one, I rolled back the bag...my inner cover...and placed a medium of dark comb on top. The bag isolated the medium from the weakened nuc, giving access only to the strong one. When the mating nucs were ready to be split up into 4 ways again for the queen rearing season, the medium was taken off as a nuc...with the wintered queen. She had moved right up into that medium and started a nice little broodnest. The other queen was harvested, and used for requeening.

Mating nuc holding yard. Note bag folded back over weakened side.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Sorry these images are so large I checked properties. Maybe I was only looking at the size of the thumb on photobucket. I'll try to change them this evening. Gotta go to work.


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## Grizbee (Sep 23, 2009)

michael, The dividing feeder is what I am trying to figure out ... obviously it feeds both sides, but how does it divide the 2 sides? eventually they eat the dividing moat of syrup dont they? is there any way to show this mechanism? thanks in advance


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> The mating nucs are wintered in this 8 frame configuration. Come spring, you have to deal with exploding mating nucs. They often have 6-7 frames of brood by mid-May. This year, _I removed most of the brood and bees from one side_, leaving the queen and two frames of brood and bees. I added two empty combs and two foundations. I left two frames of honey at the sidewalls.


Mike, you are really innovative with your queen nuc. 

Could you elaborate what you used the removed bees and brood for? Btw, we are still curious about your "beebomb".

(Grizbee: Mike has explained this several times, search "overwintering nucs" or "mating nucs" filter for Palmers posts, the images on photobucket also says it all)


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Grizbee said:


> michael, The dividing feeder is what I am trying to figure out ... obviously it feeds both sides, but how does it divide the 2 sides? eventually they eat the dividing moat of syrup dont they? is there any way to show this mechanism? thanks in advance


I tried including a photo of the feeder and frame in my first post. After repeated attempts, I couldn't re-size it, and gave up. I'll include it now, and hope the moderators don't edit it out...at least until Grizbee sees it.
thanks
Mike


The feeder has two chambers, with a vertical divider. Entry to feeder is from the sides. The holes on top are for filling, and are closed off by the bag inner cover.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

JensLarsen said:


> Mike, you are really innovative with your queen nuc.
> 
> Could you elaborate what you used the removed bees and brood for? Btw, we are still curious about your "beebomb".


I use the removed bees and brood for making nucs, and strengthening cell builders. The super over the bag has that overwintered queen. She's moved up into the medium, and established her broodnest. I remove it as a nuc when I split up the mating nucs for raising queens.

The frames of brood and bees are given to cell builders 10 days before grafting. Read 
_Beekeeping At Buckfast Abbey._ It it, Bro Adam tells how he sets up his cell builders. He prefers the swarming impulse to get quality cells. He brings in 10 frames of queenless brood and bees, and places them above an excluder over an already strong colony. 10 days later this colony is bustin' out all over, and ready to start cells...if they haven't already (swarm). I've been using that method for several years. I get beautiful cells, full of jelly.

So, that's what I call a "Bee Bomb." It can be bees, or bees and brood, or even an overwintered nuc that has built up well. I don't want to write the whole article here, because Kim gets first shot at it, but I believe so much of successful beekeeping is about population. The pic of the huge swarm...Bee Bomb if you will...is a great example of my philosophy. If there are enough bees, foundation gets drawn and supers get filled. That Bomb drew out 29 frames of deep foundation and a super of cutcomb. This is without any brrod to start with, and a queen that was just starting to lay.

The rest of the story will be in Gleanings next spring.


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

There are _so _many options available with Mike's setup. The source is of course Brother Adam, there are even photos of mini-frames in his book. So, basically his ideas are so old they are new. The book is mandatory reading IMHO.

Queen nuc managment is a whole new thing to the community, frame size and overwintering can be accredited to Brother Adam, Mike and Kirk's addition was two, _movable feeders and stacking_. The _expansion trick_ Mike just disclosed sure is a third one. I think you got material for a book/booklet (team up with Larry Connor?).

Mike: When using these mini-frames with brood to boost cell builders, are they all mini-frames or do you connect two to make it fit in a standard box?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

JensLarsen said:


> Mike: When using these mini-frames with brood to boost cell builders, are they all mini-frames or do you connect two to make it fit in a standard box?


I usually use standare deep frames from either strong colonies, or overwintered nucs. With nucs, you kill the old queen and add the box with brood/bees/queen. 

This past spring, I tried something different. The mating nucs get so strong early that there's a risk of swarming. The queens in the mating nucs are from the last batch of the precious summer, and are among the best of that summer. Too bad to lose them to swarming. That's why I expanded some and split some. 

Bee bombs made with mini-frames are as good as with standard frames...just more difficult to handle. Nail a wood bound excluder on the bottom of a hive body and add the mini-frames of brood and bees there. The excluder prevents the frames from falling out of the box.

This photo shows the frames in the box...no excluder. I figured out that one after the fact.

Note: I love handling these mini-nucs. The bees and queen resemble in their actions and performance, their big sisters in the big hives. See the pattern? This circular brood pattern isn't always apparent in standard frames in production colonies because the queen has so much room in which to lay. If you look, you can see 3 rounds of brood on this frame. Cool, eh?


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