# Want to make just a few queens



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Man, you sure do move right along when you take up a new interest!

Is the queenless swarm the one you dug out of the ground -or have you bagged another one?

I expect the split you just made will start several queen cells, hopefully on more than one comb. (Did you add more than one frame of right-aged larvae?) Then you can move the combs with queen cells into the hives that need a queen and let them take it from there. I think I've read, though I've never tried it, that it's possible to remove a capped queen cell and attach it to a comb in another hive. I imagine it's tricky to do.

As a temporary move to buy some time, you might consider doing a newspaper combine with the queenless swarm and the non-laying queen hive. Then you could try pinching her and adding another frame with eggs and young larvae to that hive.

Have you considered just buying some queens? They are not that expensive - may be $25+/- bucks apiece. Not as much fun as growing your own, of course. But if you learn/do everything in your first few months you won't have anything interesting left to do next year.

Enj.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I don't think you need 3 queens unless you want different genetics in your yard. Save yourself
the $100 dollars to buy some bee flowers, patty and syrup.
If you have another hive then put a frame of eggs/larvae
into the non laying queen hive. This way they will make some
queen cells. Put more bees in if you have some. 1 down!
The queenless swarm you can do a newspaper combine with the 
newly split hive to increase the hive population and hopefully
help with the queen cells that they will make. 2 down! More resources coming in mean better well fed queens later on.
The non laying queen hive can bee a delayed brooding hive so you might want to wait a bit too. Sometimes without syrup or pollen coming in the queen will not lay. Any foragers coming and going in this hive?
The split hive you will have to wait until they make the qcs. Feed them well with patty and syrup now. 3 down!


----------



## garusher (May 28, 2012)

OTS Queen rearing, easy peasy. i notch at the egg stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIYz65Vquxg


----------



## Tomson (Feb 9, 2015)

Man, you sure do move right along when you take up a new interest! - LOL - So True. Sold my business bought a ranch - Now finally living my life.

Is the queenless swarm the one you dug out of the ground - or have you bagged another one? - Dug out of ground.

I expect the split you just made will start several queen cells, hopefully on more than one comb. (Did you add more than one frame of right-aged larvae?) - There should be two frames with some larva the right age. Then you can move the combs with queen cells into the hives that need a queen and let them take it from there. I think I've read, though I've never tried it, that it's possible to remove a capped queen cell and attach it to a comb in another hive. I imagine it's tricky to do.

As a temporary move to buy some time, you might consider doing a newspaper combine with the queenless swarm and the non-laying queen hive. Then you could try pinching her and adding another frame with eggs and young larvae to that hive.

Have you considered just buying some queens? They are not that expensive - may be $25+/- bucks apiece. Not as much fun as growing your own, of course. But if you learn/do everything in your first few months you won't have anything interesting left to do next year. - Ha Ha.. Funny thing is I ordered 2 queens 2 months ago and the soonest pick-up is April 18th. So I didn't know how long before they would all die, and from what I understand this will work. The real questions is, making a graft with just a few as to not overburden the split. Does that work? Or is there some reason you need to have a starting colony and then move to a finishing colony. Or if it is just 4 - 6 grafted cells is it OK. It just seems to me if they can make several beginning to end on their own this should also work. I have lot's of room 10 acres, Fruit orchard and we border a National Forrest so plenty of food. Also I understand that due to the weather they fly year round. So I am planning of having about 10 - 15 hives. I have two that I am leaving for honey already (one almost full deep on top). The others will be for tree pollination, and other friends that need bees. NOT a business just a hobby.

Now the only unique problem I will be facing is the Africanized HB. I have talked with other commercial guys in the area, and also a local BK supply store and they say that about 60 % of the swarms have been AHB tainted (I am about 50 miles from San Diego), but they are not like people see on TV. They are just more agitated and make you wear veil, sometime gloves. They have breed enough with local that they are not like they used to be. I am sure that one swarm I caught is AHB. They problem they will make for me is in the mating flights. So I will more than likely get the dominant Africanized drone. I will have to buy queens for the future and that is why I am looking to control breed and mate in the future - Next year. Whoa - there is quite a side track from my question but I think it sheds some light to my needs.


----------



## bean tree homestead (Nov 18, 2013)

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm


http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

I plan to use the Hopkins system with a cloak board.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

In your case if worry about the AHB it is better to just buy the queens.
Then when you have the resource to saturate the area with your own drones then
consider grafting or make a few good queens. At least you are hoping to get the 
good genetics there.


----------



## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

Get queens from TX. We ain't got no AHB influence here! :lookout:


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong. But looking at the AHB map the genetics moved into
NM, FL, S. CA, and TX as well. Almost all the southern states got it. Maybe in your micro climate they are not there yet.
So are you really sure? We don't want to misguide the newbee too.

Maybe it is just me. But the OTS at the egg stage they will not take well. Sometimes the bees will rebuild the cells to
cover the eggs again like a normal cell. I find it that notching at the young larva stage will enable them to make some
qcs from. Too early at the egg stage I think.


----------



## Tomson (Feb 9, 2015)

texanbelchers said:


> Get queens from TX. We ain't got no AHB influence here! :lookout:


OK, who has queens available now? That is the question then. See I would if I could find them?


----------



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Tomson said:


> Hi,
> 
> I need 3 queens.
> 
> ...


Time is not on your side right now. I think you should buy at least 2 queens or maybe all 3 and then start making queens for reserve.


----------



## Tomson (Feb 9, 2015)

dsegrest said:


> Time is not on your side right now. I think you should buy at least 2 queens or maybe all 3 and then start making queens for reserve.



OK, so where can I get them?


----------



## Tomson (Feb 9, 2015)

OK, here is the update:

Split with frame of eggs and brood produced 6 queen cells capped today. Now what? lol. 

My plan is to use some of the cells for the for a queenless swarm and leave some for the Split. What is the best way to do this. leave 3 and move 3 or some other combination. Also on what day should I cut out some and move them. I understand they are are a little more hardy closer to hatching. Also, is it right that should be about 7 days from capping? They are emergency cells so, what can I expect from the queens as they are smaller than grafted, swarm or superceed?

Anything else I might do to improve chances? I have a pollen patty in the box that I hoped would improve queen quality. Also I have queen cell protector baskets to put them in to prevent bees chewing open first day. Should I use, do I need?


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

It is too late. Time is already ran out.
By the time your mated order queens get there your
qcs already hatched. It is wasteful to destroy these cells.
I would just leave them bee for right now. Give these
new queens a chance to prove themselves. Because you have
3 this is a perfect combination meant to bee. You see keepers usually put 2 qcs into a nuc or hive. One will bee the queen to 
head the hive if she got mated. If not then you can always do a newspaper combine later on. I'm sure 3 out of 3 will get mated on the positive side of thinking. 
On the queen rearing calendar link, on day 16 is when the queen hatch. Keepers usually moved the qcs into nucs 10 days later after they are capped. Not knowing how young/old the age of the larvae that these bees picked them, I would just move them on day 9th to be sure of no early hatching that will destroy the other cells.
I do not know what cell protector you use. The orange type with 2 pins to stick to the wax type do not work for me. The bees still chewed thru the cells to destroy them. Somewhere here the tech. is using the aluminum tape or duct tape to wrap around the cells only leaving the tip open because the tip is harder to chew thru. But these cells are extremely fragile if you are not careful might crush them. Perhaps to size the aluminum tape first and then slip the cell inside. 
Feeding them syrup will also help with the queen acceptance in addition to the patty. This is all you can do now and to wait. 
Don't worry about the queens too much because it is still early to know the outcome of their hatch rate and the mating flight.
Recommendation on where to get queens is a sensitive subject to me. Mainly is I don't want to take the responsibility in case something
happens. Because in an open mate situation of the queen one batch is different from the next. There are many factors involved. So if I say this or that is a good queen breeder then
your result is different it will come back to my recommendation. All I can say is to go local and ask question about the source of their breeders. Hopefully you will find some good queens. But nothing beats locally raised, well fed queens that can survive with the mites and diseases. And hopefully beeing gentle too.


----------



## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

Beepro- your timeline is wrong, if you want to move cells 10 days after a cell is capped, you are a couple days late. You should recheck your queen grafting schedule. Cells emerge 7 days after capping and ~11days after grafting. 
You might have ment to say move cells 10 days after grafting.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

beepro said:


> ... on day 16 is when the queen hatch. Keepers usually moved the qcs into nucs 10 days later after they are capped.


Thanks you for correcting my mistakes. I once asked that question here. 
Here is the queen rearing calendar for you to play with:
http://www.thebeeyard.org/queen-rearing-calendar/


----------



## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Yes, move at least 2 queen cells to the hive without a queen. Move them in about 4 days. 7 days may be too late as they are already capped. If you want to make another split you can also put another 2 cells in that. (So 3 hives, 2 cells in each.)

If the comb the cells were built on is new, the bees are likely to have made better queen cells, so the queens should be just fine. Certainly good enough to get a hive going.

Wouldn't bother with cell protectors. Just increase your odds of queens surviving by doing another split. You can always combine them if a queen doesn't make it in one of the splits.


----------



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Tomson said:


> OK, so where can I get them?


Someone in your local bee club probably raises them. If you needed 200 you might have a problem. 3 should be easily available.


----------



## Tomson (Feb 9, 2015)

BeePro -

It is too late. Time is already ran out.
By the time your mated order queens get there your
qcs already hatched. It is wasteful to destroy these cells. I am going to give some of these to a buddy that needs them and also make a few splits when the others come. I have one strong hive that has 9 full frames of honey mostly capped in top deep supper. (these are the very gentle bees & good producers) I also have another strong hive 2 deeps and medium honey super (these bees are somewhat agressive and not making honey at the same rate as other) I was looking to re-queen this hive. But both hives are full of bees for making splits so I can when the Mated queens get picked up. And I have met my honey goal so I am not concerned about donating brood at this point.
I would just leave them bee for right now. Give these
new queens a chance to prove themselves. Because you have
3 this is a perfect combination meant to bee. You see keepers usually put 2 qcs into a nuc or hive. One will bee the queen to 
head the hive if she got mated. If not then you can always do a newspaper combine later on. I'm sure 3 out of 3 will get mated on the positive side of thinking. 
On the queen rearing calendar link, on day 16 is when the queen hatch. Keepers usually moved the qcs into nucs 10 days later after they are capped. Not knowing how young/old the age of the larvae that these bees picked them, I would just move them on day 9th to be sure of no early hatching that will destroy the other cells. OK
I do not know what cell protector you use. The orange type with 2 pins to stick to the wax type do not work for me. The bees still chewed thru the cells to destroy them. Somewhere here the tech. is using the aluminum tape or duct tape to wrap around the cells only leaving the tip open because the tip is harder to chew thru. But these cells are extremely fragile if you are not careful might crush them. Perhaps to size the aluminum tape first and then slip the cell inside. 
Feeding them syrup will also help with the queen acceptance in addition to the patty. This is all you can do now and to wait. 
Don't worry about the queens too much because it is still early to know the outcome of their hatch rate and the mating flight.
Recommendation on where to get queens is a sensitive subject to me. Mainly is I don't want to take the responsibility in case something
happens. Because in an open mate situation of the queen one batch is different from the next. There are many factors involved. So if I say this or that is a good queen breeder then
your result is different it will come back to my recommendation. All I can say is to go local and ask question about the source of their breeders. Hopefully you will find some good queens. But nothing beats locally raised, well fed queens that can survive with the mites and diseases. And hopefully beeing gentle too.


----------



## Tomson (Feb 9, 2015)

MattDavey said:


> Yes, move at least 2 queen cells to the hive without a queen. Move them in about 4 days. 7 days may be too late as they are already capped. If you want to make another split you can also put another 2 cells in that. (So 3 hives, 2 cells in each.)
> 
> If the comb the cells were built on is new, the bees are likely to have made better queen cells, so the queens should be just fine. Certainly good enough to get a hive going.
> 
> Wouldn't bother with cell protectors. Just increase your odds of queens surviving by doing another split. You can always combine them if a queen doesn't make it in one of the splits.


They did make on new comb.  

I will help my buddy with another split on his hives. And then when my paid for queens come in I will make some more. They are from Wildflower Meadows (Fallbrook California) about 20 miles away so very local. And they supply lots of queens to the almond guys in No. California.

Hey Matt, we are moving along here. Started with 2 that I bought a few months ago and now have 5 hives. Whoo Hoo. After the other queens come I will be going for 2 more! Then the honey should be capped and ready on the one hive, warm days here (88- 92) so I will pull spin out honey, donate comb to hives that need it, take a breather from expanding, treat passively for varroa with honey supers off and see what they all do this year. But you know me, I will probably try grafting for others that need queens in the area. Everything is sold out... Just to keep learning. I should certainly have enough bees to try that.


----------

