# honey bees and sweet clover?



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Oh yeah baby! One of the best.


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## honeybeealex (Mar 15, 2010)

ok thats what i wanted to hear! my neighbor planted 8 acres of it so i'm hoping to have a good honey crop this year!


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> Oh yeah baby!* One *of the best.


:scratch:WOW, trying to think of what might be better.:waiting: Hmmm, NOPE, I can't think of anything on heavy soils that would be better than Hubam [white sweet] clover. But a reckon I agree if you meant #"One ** the best." Anyway you look at it, if you have sweet clover, :thumbsup:.


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## honeybeealex (Mar 15, 2010)

what about sun flowers how are they?


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

Giant sweet clover is great stuff but I've never heard of anyone planting it - except for me collecting the seeds and spreading them along the dirt road shoulder 
As I read it clover comes in Dutch white - the short plant with white flower prevelent in yards and pastures.
Mamoth Clover - about knee high with big purple flower that farmers like and bees ignore due to the flower size not allowing nectar collection.
Giant sweet white and/or yellow - up to waste tall or more, very stemmy with long thin flowers. Locally only found along roadways and on the worst soil possible. Never heard of it being usefull other than the nectar.
Please enlighten me if I got this wrong opcorn:


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Naturegoods said:


> Giant sweet white and/or yellow - up to waste tall or more, very stemmy with long thin flowers. Locally only found along roadways and on the worst soil possible. Never heard of it being usefull other than the nectar.
> Please enlighten me if I got this wrong opcorn:


The white sweet clover I was on was planted as a soil builder, for the nitrogen and then turned under [about midway into the bloom] for the humus. His cattle also grazed it until a month or so before bloom. Sweet clover was the primary source used as a soil builder [nitrogen] until cheap chemical nitrogen came on the market. I personally think that you will begin to see its use increase because of the high cost of petroleum products. It will also grow an poor soils, has very deep root system and the stuff that I was on was very stemmie and 7+ feet tall. Flowers aren't long and thin either. Don't know about the yellow the the white flowers hang down [perfect size for bees and easily worked] and so the rain doesn't wash the nectar out. After a rain the bees start working it almost immediately again.


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## olky (Apr 19, 2008)

honeybeealex are you sure it was sweet clover? most people in these parts plant red clover for hay production, not the best for bees. or maybe ladino for his pastures. i would think only a beek would plant 8 acres of sweet in these parts. if it is sweet, your lucky, take advantage of it and enjoy your hives.


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

DRUR said:


> and then turned under [about midway into the bloom]


  
Farmers have a habit of doing stuff like that but then that is when the plant is mature and reproducing (unlike humans)! t:
I've heard of 'winter wheat' that is planted in the fall to plow under in the spring. Neighbor planted sweet peas as a cover plant mixed with alphalfa. I used to think that alphalfa was not a nectar producer; either I was wrong or there is a different variety of alphalfa grown now. My bees are onto a farmers hay field like crazy just before he mows it down! I hate to think how many of the girls get mashed in that process.  I've considered offering him a pound jar for every week he postpones the mowing!


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

honeybeealex said:


> ok thats what i wanted to hear! my neighbor planted 8 acres of it so i'm hoping to have a good honey crop this year!


If it was planted just this year, you have to wait till next year to get flowers. It comes up the first year and builds its root system, then dies back over the winter, and comes up the second year into a larger plant and blooms, then it dies completely.


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## honeybeealex (Mar 15, 2010)

alright thanks for the info


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

jmgi said:


> If it was planted just this year, you have to wait till next year to get flowers. It comes up the first year and builds its root system, then dies back over the winter, and comes up the second year into a larger plant and blooms, then it dies completely.


White Sweet Clover [Hubam] produces the first year. I have never had any dealings with the yellow variety, but I have been told that in Texas if you plant it early in the fall [which is S.O.P. here in Texas] that the fall growth serves as the first years growth, and then it will produce the next spring. However, White Sweet Clover planted in late winter/very early spring will produce and yield the first year [and also go to seed] by late May/early June.

Kindest Regards
Danny


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Hubam clover is an annual type of sweet clover, the regular yellow and white sweet clovers are biennial and take two years to bloom. I think I read that Hubam clover is a better nectar producer than the other sweet clovers, but the seed for it is harder to find.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

jmgi said:


> Hubam clover is an annual type of sweet clover, the regular yellow and white sweet clovers are biennial and take two years to bloom.


Sorry, my mistake, I wasn't aware that there was another type of white sweet clover than that in the Hubam family with the same characteristics of Hubam. If you have more info on the other white variety you might provide it just for my information. I thought there was the yellow variety which was a biennial and then the white variety which were all annuals. I have read much about clover but never any information where there was a distinction between 'regular' white sweet clover and 'hubam' white sweet clover; but thanks for the education.

Kindest Regards
Danny


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## honeybeealex (Mar 15, 2010)

well hes a beek too.. so it will be good for both of us!


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Found a little more information here:
http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/weeds/plants/wh_swclover.htm

"White Sweet Clover
Melilotus alba
Bean family (Fabaceae)

Description: This introduced *annual or biennial* [I am assuming the annual is 'alba' (white) or 'hubam' and the biennial is the 'officinalis' or yellow] plant is 3-8' tall, branching occasionally and having a lanky appearance. The light green stems are round or slightly terete (i.e., furrowed on all sides) and glabrous. The alternate leaves are trifoliate; they are rather sparsely distributed along the stems and have petioles up to 1" long. The greyish green leaflets are up to 1" long and 1/3" across. They are hairless, dentate along the upper margins, and oblong or oblong-ovate. There are a pair of small narrow stipules at the base of each trifoliate leaf's petiole. The middle leaflet has a conspicuous petiole of its own (i.e, a petiolule), while the lateral leaflets are nearly sessile."

and the other variety:

"Comments: *This species is very similar in appearance to Melilotus officinalis (Yellow Sweet Clover)*. As a matter of fact, *some authorities regard them as the same species with differently colored flowers*, in which case *White Sweet Clover is referred to as Melilotus officinalis alba*. *Other authorities, including Mohlenbrock (2002), consider White Sweet Clover a separate species*. This species has a tendency to bloom about 2-4 weeks later than Yellow Sweet Clover, and its foliage is more greyish green, rather than plain green. The seedpods of White Sweet Clover lack transverse wrinkles, which are occasionally present in the seedpods of Yellow Sweet Clover."


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## BeeOld (Apr 7, 2009)

Will bees work ladino clover?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

White Sweet is a great plant for soil improvement, but not for forage. Animals can graze on it but as hay it's poisonous. The heat during curing to make hay forms cumarin, and can make animals hemorrhage.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>what about sun flowers how are they? 


hit an miss, the oil type give off more consistent nectar
watch out for the confectionery type. Growers here are contracted with an edible seed company. In contract they have to spray the fields regardless of thresholds. Lots of trouble! All we can do is manage our losses,


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## VitaminBee (Aug 17, 2013)

So do we have a final vote on the scientific name of the sweet white clover that is best for bees?


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Sweet clover, white, yellow, annual and biennial, are all great nectar sources.

Tom


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

Sweet Clover is a major source of nectar here in mid-Missouri. Unfortunately the Dept. of Conservation considers it invasive since it's non-native and they would like to see it eradicated.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

TWall said:


> Sweet clover, white, yellow, annual and biennial, are all great nectar sources.
> 
> Tom


I posted on a related subject a couple of days ago.

I have 100's of acres of White Clover flowering but have seen very few bee s working it and I wonder why??

Queensland / Australia


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

max2 said:


> I posted on a related subject a couple of days ago.
> 
> I have 100's of acres of White Clover flowering but have seen very few bee s working it and I wonder why??
> 
> Queensland / Australia


Do you know what type of clover it is? Honeybees cannot forage on all types of clovers.

Also, if there is something else available the bees like better they will ignore it.

Tom


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

We call it Dutch White ( or New Zealand White) - very common here and in other years the bees really built up on it. I will check today to see what they are doing. It is common to get a flow from Clover.
Eucalypts are also flowering and this maybe a distraction..bees!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

No doubt that my bees prefer the eucalyptus pollen and nectar here. The white color pollen is
what they like to bring in. If the eucalyptus tree is closer to the hives then they will not forage
the longer distance for foods. Not sure how far is your clover patch.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

beepro said:


> No doubt that my bees prefer the eucalyptus pollen and nectar here. The white color pollen is
> what they like to bring in. If the eucalyptus tree is closer to the hives then they will not forage
> the longer distance for foods. Not sure how far is your clover patch.


The clover is about 500m away - the Euc well over 1 km.
But nothing has changed from past years - I wonder if there is a humidity/temperature relationship which makes the clover more attractive?

I checked my hives today and there is definitely something coming in. I will know a bit more when we take some honey off.

The 8 nuc's I placed in a 10 frame super about 10 days ago are filling up nicely and some are just about ready to have a honey super added.
Abundance - love it!


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

White sweet clover and dutch white clover are not the same.

White sweet clover: http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/weeds/plants/wh_swclover.htm

Dutch white clover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifolium_repens

While bees will forage both. Sweet clover can be a big honey producer.

Tom


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

The term "white sweet clover" is not used here. I have not seen Melilotis here ( subtropics? too warm?)

What we have is definitely T repens - Dutch White. Usually a good one for the bees. The Sweet Clover sounds like heaven for bees.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

We took some honey off today - there is definitely some clover mixed in but the real bonus from the clover is that there is plenty of brood - if the weather is OK , the bees will do the rest.


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