# My plan on overwintering 200 queens on mini-frames



## Saltybee

Bee envy is such a terrible disease.

"Excess combs of brood and honey were left with the old queens...the mating nucs are made up queenless to accept ripe cell the following day."

You have already restocked deadouts by then, the old (overwintered) are your sales?

Your new nucs have bees in a strange hive and from more than one hive? Does that help aceptance or not make any difference?


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## MES613

"One of the issues with having the mating nucs wintering on so many combs, is...what to do with all the bees and queens come mating season. I know. Tough problem to have, but swarming from the mini-combs can get out of control."

Michael, our bee club would be happy to help you restore some law and order if things do get "out of control." Nothing worse than too many northern-raised, overwintered fresh queens (and bees!) in April!

Your posts are always informative and an inspiration. Thanks, and please let us know how this works out.


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## Lauri

I see you read my post in August. Glad you had enough time to try it too.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...n-overwintering-40-mating-nucs-on-mini-frames

Seems like it will work well. I did some last year that overwintered just fine. I just didn't have the guts to try more at that time.

200 sound like a manageable number. I'll be shooting for that next year. Only limited by the lack of drawn frames.


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## BernhardHeuvel

Reminds me of Warré beekeeping.


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## Specialkayme

Good thread to read. Keep us posted.

I started this year with some divided nucs, 4 frames on either side, supered with a 4 frame box on each side, after listening to you talk at EAS in Vermont in 2012. I had 4 of these boxes (making 8 colonies of 8 frames each) going at one point in time over the season. I liked the configuration, and appeared to work well. Although a few threw off late season swarms (July and August) which complicated things for me.

I also built a few 4 way mini mating nucs, like you have above (divided feeder included), for use this past season. But I think I started them too early. I didn't have drawn comb in the mini frames, so I threw foundation and a ton of syrup on them, giving each mating nuc a cell and a cup and a half of bees. When the temps dropped at night, the bees didn't cluster around the cell, and instead moved toward the feeder. The vast majority of the cells died, and with no cells, no drawn comb, and no brood in any of the mating nucs, the bees eventually just left. I was thinking about starting a little later this year (probably mid March for me), and also cutting out some drawn comb and brood from a few regular deep frames and inserting them in mini frames to anchor the workers. Also thought about throwing a few 4 way mini boxes on top of singles come February 1, while THROWING feed at them to get them to draw out a few of the mini frames. Hoping for better success this season.

I thought about overwintering a few of the minis on 8 frames, like in your second pic. If I needed warmth, I'd put them over top of a single. My 4 way bottom boards have screened bottoms, so heat can transfer up but bees can't go up or down. That will have to wait until next year.

Only issue I see with your strategy (and you may not think it's an issue) is the need for yet another piece of special equipment. Your top box that houses 10 additional half frames. Other than overwintering, what other use do they have? Can you use them for mating nucs during the normal season? Or do they just take up space in a storage unit? At $5 a piece (which is probably a fair estimate as to it's value), needing 250 of them, that's an easy $1,250 to drop in more equipment. Seems like you could just take a standard 10 frame box, throw a divider down the middle, kinda like the bottom box is situated, and you could accomplish the same thing without "dedicated" equipment. You wouldn't be able to open one side without opening the other, which is why I know you have it set up the way you have it now, (although you could just put the top box down on a flat surface, avoiding the cross over problem) but how many times do you need to do that between September and March? A few times to add some feed, and inspect some frames, but I wouldn't think it would be "dozens."

Just a few thoughts.


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## Michael Palmer

Of course I read it and enjoyed your approach. From what I've seen in your posts, and your ability to make equipment, you shouldn't be afraid to winter more and more. You just have to get your resources built up.


I've been wintering nucs with mini-combs for years, although this is the first year with the second story. Previously, I wintered the doubles on top of a production colony. Because I hate moving bees than any other bee job, I'm going in another direction. I have wintered doubles stacked, and they did well. Now I'm experimenting, comparing singles on a stand, and two doubles stacked on a stand. I think the doubles with a super have to be better come spring.


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## Michael Palmer

I appreciate your thoughts...


>>Only issue I see with your strategy (and you may not think it's an issue) is the need for yet another piece of special equipment. Your top box that houses 10 additional half frames. Other than overwintering, what other use do they have? 

For holding queens after the wintered nucs have been split up for queen rearing. As a source for additional bees and brood for re-stocking failed nucs. For use in re-queening production colonies. And, when I get far enough ahead, sold as established queen-right 4 way mating nucs. 

>>Can you use them for mating nucs during the normal season? 

Yes, of course.

>>Or do they just take up space in a storage unit? At $5 a piece (which is probably a fair estimate as to it's value), needing 250 of them, that's an easy $1,250 to drop in more equipment. 

They have about 5 bdft at 40 [email protected] is only $2 and I build them. 

>>Seems like you could just take a standard 10 frame box, throw a divider down the middle, kinda like the bottom box is situated, and you could accomplish the same thing without "dedicated" equipment. You wouldn't be able to open one side without opening the other, which is why I know you have it set up the way you have it now, (although you could just put the top box down on a flat surface, avoiding the cross over problem) but how many times do you need to do that between September and March? A few times to add some feed, and inspect some frames, but I wouldn't think it would be "dozens."

No, it's too big an issue. You have to be able to inspect them individually. Things like estimating weight by lifting super wouldn't be possible with a divided deep. Checking for swarm preps without disturbing the other nuc. Too much opportunity for queens to cross over or more likely under the divider.


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## JSL

Mike,

I winter my mini nucs as you describe and am very happy with the outcome. My mini nucs are like your “supers”, each box holds 10 mini frames and has a movable divider, similar to your feeder. I run deep frames and mediums and find that both tend to winter better as doubles, although that doesn’t stop me from wintering singles if they are there. Most I push together for winter so that they can share the heat and a single cover. They also seem to do just fine as an individual unit. Come spring time those little units will surprise you with their explosive growth. Conserving that heat in a smaller space and creating a “chimney” so that the bees can move up really helps. I learned this system from the Hawaiian queen breeders, believe it or not, they have used this box and system for a long time, although for slightly different reasons. Wish I had taken their advice many years ago.

You mention that you pull one queen and slide the feeder over to combine nucs with no fighting or queen loss. I found that I lost a small percentage of queens following that method. My nucs are usually pretty packed late summer and early fall, when I begin combining them, so I started shaking the bees out of one side before combining them. This did a couple of things. It reduced queen loss, provided extra bees for use elsewhere and served as population control for these little nucs.

Always enjoying hear how others make their system work!

Joe


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## merince

Keep us posted!

This winter, I am trying 9 nucs - 8 in pairs and one by itself. I am curious to see how it all works out.


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## Specialkayme

Michael Palmer said:


> For holding queens after the wintered nucs have been split up for queen rearing. As a source for additional bees and brood for re-stocking failed nucs. For use in re-queening production colonies. And, when I get far enough ahead, sold as established queen-right 4 way mating nucs.


I think my point was, if you put the supers on a divided bottom board, could you use them that way? Do you?

Obviously the FRAMES of brood have a use. Do the supers though, other than as staked on top of a 4 way to overwinter.



Michael Palmer said:


> They have about 5 bdft at 40 [email protected] is only $2 and I build them.


@ $0.40 /bd ft, comes to about $1.88 each, not counting labor, nails, glue, or paint. But fair enough.

I think I had this conversation previously, but I think you might be the only person I've met that can buy wood that cheap (other than getting it for free). Cheapest I can find it locally is $0.56 bdft, and that's an hour and a half away, costing me another $0.10 a bdft in travel expenses. And it's not the BEST wood, so about 10% is unuseable knots, holes, ect. So in the end it comes to about $0.73 a bdft. If I made them it would cost me $3.41 per box, plus labor, nails, glue, and paint. All of that is for Southern yellow pine. A denser and longer lasting wood.

But when I try to find wood closer, even from a sawmill, they tell me I'm nuts to walk away from wood being sold at $0.56 bdft, regardless of the location or quality. Cheapest I can find SYP wood anywhere else in the state (or even two surrounding states) is $2.20 bdft, or $1.65 bdft for white pine. At those prices, the same box would cost $10.32 and $7.74 respectively, each exclusive of nails, glue, labor, paint, and wear and tear on parts, of course. Those boards would be clear, so no issues on an unuseable percentage.

End result, while you may have a fantastic wood supplier, and it might not be that expensive for YOU to produce them, as a system, you still have added costs in the same percentage as anyone else. And for others attempting to duplicate your system, it might not be as cost effective as it is for you. Since these parts are not manufactured by anyone (that I can find), they need to be made by the beekeeper, and the cost would be relative to the local wood prices they can find. Assuming, of course, they can do simple woodworking.



Michael Palmer said:


> No, it's too big an issue. You have to be able to inspect them individually. Things like estimating weight by lifting super wouldn't be possible with a divided deep. Checking for swarm preps without disturbing the other nuc. Too much opportunity for queens to cross over or more likely under the divider.


How is it too big an issue when you have a nuc divided half way, but not when you have a box divided into four? When you have a four way box, you have the possibility of having a queen transfer sections while you have it open. So you put a piece of cloth over top (or keep wooden blocks, inner covers, feed bags, or whatever you use) to prevent the transfer. Why would this not work for having a divided box (not separate boxes) over another divided box? Why couldn't you place the top box on a piece of cloth, or some blocks of wood, inner cover, feed bag, or whatever while you work the box? Why couldn't you place a second over top?

I just don't see how the risk is higher.


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## JRG13

I was going to be funny and say something about your phone in picture #1 but the post is too great for that. Keep us updated, I'd like to see how everything pans out in spring.


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## Michael Palmer

JRG13 said:


> I was going to be funny and say something about your phone in picture #1 but the post is too great for that. Keep us updated, I'd like to see how everything pans out in spring.


Go ahead. Make fun of my phone. I'm a big boy. 

Photo's from 2007. I've got modern now, complete with internet so I can check up on you all from my apiaries.


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## Michael Palmer

>>I think my point was, if you put the supers on a divided bottom board, could you use them that way? Do you?

Yes, I did this spring. Allowed the 2 ways to build up into them before splitting. After splitting up into mating nucs the old queen remained in the super and build up into one or two more...drawing out foundation. Yes, you could put them on a single bottom or a divided bottom and use them as mating nucs. I already have enough active mating nucs.

>>Obviously the FRAMES of brood have a use. Do the supers though, other than as staked on top of a 4 way to overwinter.

Just the uses in my last post. also...They make great chairs? 

>>@ $0.40 /bd ft, comes to about $1.88 each, not counting labor, nails, glue, or paint. But fair enough. I think I had this conversation previously, but I think you might be the only person I've met that can buy wood that cheap 

I understand that, but would still make them if the price for materials was higher. I look at them as a wintering queen not a single use box. How much is a quality queen worth to you when the first spring flows start? When all you can get is from someone in the deep south or California?


>>How is it too big an issue when you have a nuc divided half way, but not when you have a box divided into four? When you have a four way box, you have the possibility of having a queen transfer sections while you have it open. So you put a piece of cloth over top (or keep wooden blocks, inner covers, feed bags, or whatever you use) to prevent the transfer. Why would this not work for having a divided box (not separate boxes) over another divided box? Why couldn't you place the top box on a piece of cloth, or some blocks of wood, inner cover, feed bag, or whatever while you work the box? Why couldn't you place a second over top?

I just don't see how the risk is higher.


Yes, I could go to additional lengths to prevent cross-over just so I can use single boxes with a divider. I do anyway when the mating nucs are in the 4 way configuration. But that's extra work and not always successful...I have queens cross over in the 4 ways sometimes. I can't imaging having two sides of the box where the queens have an opportunity to cross. Wouldn't that increase the risk by twice?


But queens crossing over aside...how would you estimate the weight of the top box...for winter...if you couldn't pick up the top box individually? Pulling frames when there are many hundreds to check is out.


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## beekuk

Michael Palmer said:


> I've got modern now, complete with internet so I can check up on you all from my apiaries.


And further afield at times, from what i have seen.


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## Michael Palmer

At times.


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## Specialkayme

Michael Palmer said:


> They make great chairs?


Haha. Got a good laugh out of that one.



Michael Palmer said:


> But queens crossing over aside...how would you estimate the weight of the top box...for winter...if you couldn't pick up the top box individually? Pulling frames when there are many hundreds to check is out.


I think I operate slightly differently than you do. Not for the better or worse, just different. I know you have, in the past, actually weighed singles or nucs to see how much they weigh. I don't remember if you still do. Then it's a simple formulation on if it needs to weigh X lbs more, I feed it Y gallons of 2:1. Nothing wrong with that. But I don't do that. I tilt up on the back of a hive (works for a single, double, triple, nuc, double nuc, whatever you have). Does it feel heavy? Then it doesn't need feed. Does it feel light? Then it needs feed. Give it a gallon of feed, and check it again when it's taken it all. I know what 65 lbs feels like. So I can tell if the hive is heavier or lighter than that. Probably can't tell you if it's 60 lbs or 65 lbs. But after a few years you can tell if it's 50 lbs or 70 lbs. That's all that really matters. I can tilt it and tell if all the honey is on one side or the other. Same would work with side by side nucs, whether full deep frames or half frames. As a matter of fact, that's what I did on the side by sides that I did. I didn't pull the top box off and lift it up to check it's weight. I just lifted on the bottom board. That and peered in the top. Does the top look full? Good to go. No? Is it light? It needs feed.

I can check a whole yard in about 10 min that way. No need to suit up, light a smoker, crack open hives, ect. It works for me. May not for you.

I would concede that it's possible that one half packs on 80 lbs and the other half packs on 55 lbs. I think I'd tell the difference in the distribution of weight. But it's possible that I wouldn't. But so what. I'd be able to tell when I lifted up on them in two months, and noticed it was super light and needed emergency stores. Now if one side weighed 80 lbs and the other side weighed 30, I can tell that. You can too.

I just don't think the time spent lifting the top box to determine it's weight is time well spent when you can determine the same thing via other means. Your back would certainly thank you for not doing it. And the bees appear to be doing just fine either way. So if you can accomplish the same means a different way, I just don't see the overarching NEED for specialized equipment that is not uniform. 

But it appears you have a good thing going, and the downside of un-uniform equipment may not be a concern of yours.


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## Michael Palmer

Well, perhaps it's a matter of numbers. After I heft a couple yards, they all feel heavy. 

Perhaps it's a matter of economics. An apiary of honey bee colonies is like a gymnasium full of hungry teenagers. They all have hollow legs, and will consume all you place before them. Feeding an extra 10 pounds of 2:1 to every colony I have would cost thousands.

Perhaps it's a matter of location. I don't believe in emergency feeding when the feed level is getting critical and the weather isn't fit for feeding bees. Rather, I get it right the first time and am done with it. My winter doesn't allow for mistakes.


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## Specialkayme

Michael Palmer said:


> After I heft a couple yards, they all feel heavy.


Ever do deadlifts? If you deadlift 150 lbs for 10 reps, then deadlift 100 lbs, they both feel heavy, but you can tell which one is heavier. 



Michael Palmer said:


> Perhaps it's a matter of economics. An apiary of honey bee colonies is like a gymnasium full of hungry teenagers. They all have hollow legs, and will consume all you place before them. Feeding an extra 10 pounds of 2:1 to every colony I have would cost thousands.


I wasn't, nor would I suggest, feeding an extra 10 pounds of 2:1 to every colony I (or you) have. Obviously that would cost thousands and is a massive waste of money. I hope you didn't think I was suggesting that.

I may underfeed one colony, and over feed another. It happens. But overall I'd say we balance out about the same (as much as two people from totally different climates could). I'd say our losses are probably fairly close as well. I spend significantly less time doing it though. To me time is extremely valuable, as I don't have days to weigh hives. Maybe it's different for you though.



Michael Palmer said:


> Perhaps it's a matter of location. I don't believe in emergency feeding when the feed level is getting critical and the weather isn't fit for feeding bees. Rather, I get it right the first time and am done with it. My winter doesn't allow for mistakes.


Perhaps. My first red maple bloom is Feb. 1. I'm often in hives middle of January feeding sub to get them going a little early (some, not all hives). I know that isn't possible where you are at, as sometimes you can't even get to hives in mid January. So if I'm in there in January feeding sub, it isn't a big deal to add a fondant patty. It would be a huge deal to you. 

I would challenge your contention that you "get it right the first time" though. You probably get it as right as any other beekeeper. To say you "get it right" though, we both know isn't totally accurate. You have losses from starvation over winter just the same as anyone else. When a hive starves, did you get it right?

Having never lived in VT, I can't say what I'd do if I kept bees there. But right now I'd suspect I'd do the same thing, only expecting larger weights on the hives (and probably more boxes). Perhaps its easier to tell the difference between 65 lbs and 50 lbs, than it is to tell the difference between 100 lbs and 90 lbs. I don't think so, but who knows.


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## Michael Palmer

>>Ever do deadlifts? If you deadlift 150 lbs for 10 reps, then deadlift 100 lbs, they both feel heavy, but you can tell which one is heavier. 

Only bee boxes 

>>I wasn't, nor would I suggest, feeding an extra 10 pounds of 2:1 to every colony I (or you) have. Obviously that would cost thousands and is a massive waste of money. I hope you didn't think I was suggesting that.

The extra would come from colonies you gave a bit more to be sure.

>>Perhaps. My first red maple bloom is Feb. 1. I'm often in hives middle of January feeding sub to get them going a little early (some, not all hives). I know that isn't possible where you are at, as sometimes you can't even get to hives in mid January. So if I'm in there in January feeding sub, it isn't a big deal to add a fondant patty. It would be a huge deal to you.


My bees' first cleansing flight this spring was on April 1, and the first pollen was on April 15. Considerably different. And I don't like dragging fondant out to the bees with snowshoes and a toboggan. After a few winters of that, you would feel the same. 

>>I would challenge your contention that you "get it right the first time" though. You probably get it as right as any other beekeeper. To say you "get it right" though, we both know isn't totally accurate. You have losses from starvation over winter just the same as anyone else. When a hive starves, did you get it right?

Of course I have a handful starve, but less than 10 starved in the entire operation of some 1400 colonies is pretty much getting it right the first time, no? Most of those that do starve are stupid bees and it wasn't operator error.


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## Specialkayme

Michael Palmer said:


> The extra would come from colonies you gave a bit more to be sure.


And would be made up for by the colonies I feed less to, no?

I rarely feed more than 10 lbs of feed to ANY hive, let alone on average to EVERY hive. Most I don't feed at all. You think I massively over feed. So . . . I don't know where you got that assumption from. 



Michael Palmer said:


> but less than 10 starved in the entire operation of some 1400 colonies is pretty much getting it right the first time, no?


I'd say that is a very good record.

I had zero starve last year. I don't run 1400 colonies though. Different strokes.

Probably hijacking the thread, and am happy to let it go. I like your process overall, and think it gives me much to learn (and probably many others as well). I just think I'd prefer to incorporate some techniques and not others. My choice though.


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## Michael Palmer

Specialkayme said:


> I just think I'd prefer to incorporate some techniques and not others. My choice though.


Yep, exactly. That's how we learn and grow.


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## JRG13

I knew it might've been dated MP, since I saw the yellow marking paint, I guess I can't really say anything now since I had mine until 2012..... Do you ship any queens? I'd like to see how much stores they use up over the winter.


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## Darius

> The 4 way mating boxes are set up the last week of May and the first week of June. Each has 4 mini-combs. The mating yard consists of 4 groups, set up 4 days apart...over 12 days. Each group has 4 circles of mating nucs, with 8, 4-ways in each circle, for a total of 128 nucs per group. One group is caught every 4 days, in rotation, during the queen rearing season.


Can you please explain your set up more? Once you move the ripe cell it take 10 days for queen to hatch, fly get mated, come back and start laying. So what is being caught every 4 days? Do you use same nucs to mate more than one queen? At what point do you cage the new queen then?
When you set up your queenless nucs in May do you move those to a different yard 3 miles away?


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## Michael Palmer

Darius said:


> Can you please explain your set up more? Once you move the ripe cell it take 10 days for queen to hatch, fly get mated, come back and start laying. So what is being caught every 4 days? Do you use same nucs to mate more than one queen? At what point do you cage the new queen then?
> When you set up your queenless nucs in May do you move those to a different yard 3 miles away?


It takes a bit more than 10 days to emerge, mate, and begin to lay. Most begin to lay on day 12. There are more than 500 mating nucs in the yard. These are broken down into 4 groups. Each group has 4 circles of 8 4-way nuc boxes each, or 128 nucs/queens per group. One group is set up from overwintered mating nucs every 4 days. That takes 12 days to do. Then 4 days later we catch the first group of queens, 4 days later the second group, 4 days later group 3 and 4 days later group 4. Then, 4 days later, it's back to group 1 for the second round. So queens are being caught 16 days after giving ripe cell. 

The nucs are wintered in holding yards at least 3 miles from the mating yard. When they're broken up, 32 4-ways are moved to the first circle in the mating yard, and 4 days later, the next 32 are moved to group 2, etc. 128/group. 

4 days after the last group of 128 nucs are set up, we catch group 1. Last queens are caught about July 31, and they're moved to holding yards for the winter. They're expanded up onto 10 additional mini-combs and wintered.


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## Darius

Thank you, now I got it.
Do you transport young larvae to a different yard? Or do you keep your your breeder, starter and finisher colonies in the same mating yard? 
How do you transport your 32 broken down nucs for three or more miles? Do you put some kind of special screen top and bottom for extra ventilation? I assume it should be done at night when forages are back.


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## Michael Palmer

The breeder queens are kept in the cell building yard in special hives. They have a vertical excluder that holds the queen on 3 combs.

If it's not too hot we might screen them in, but really, don't include too many bees. As long as there are enough young bees to care for the brood included in the nuc, that's enough. They don't need lots of field bees. In fact, too many bees reduces the cell acceptance and leads to swarming and absconding issues on rounds two and three.

No, we don't move them at night. Just make them up and move to the mating yard.


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## Darius

I have several hives on the rooftop in the city. Then bigger yard out in the country 100 miles away. Is it too risky to put mating nucs on a two hour trip in the back of a pick up truck? Though some beekepeers move their hives from Vermont to Florida every year...

After reading different sources I was thinking of making 5 frame starter colony (confined for 24 yours with extra ventilation and water/sponge inside) and then moving cell frame to the cell builder (in the same yard) with the queen in the bottom box under excluder.
I will have half frames made as pairs, put in full size hives and cut in a half once drawn and make mating nucs.
Does this make sense?
How do you start your cells? Do you insert frames with cells to the same hive you graft from?


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## Michael Palmer

I wouldn't start my cells that way, but some do. 

No, the cell building colonies are different and separate from the breeder hive. 

Found this in the archives: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?244271-My-Cell-Building-Methods&highlight=cll+builder


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## KevinR

Darius said:


> How do you start your cells? Do you insert frames with cells to the same hive you graft from?


What is your ultimate goal? That will probably make a big difference on the suggestions made by people on this forum.


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## Darius

Michael Palmer said:


> Found this in the archives: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?244271-My-Cell-Building-Methods&highlight=cll+builder


This is great. Thanks!


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## delber

JRG13 said:


> Do you ship any queens? I'd like to see how much stores they use up over the winter.


Do you ship Michael? How would we contact you to order?


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## MTN-Bees

I'm considering overwintering 4 way mating nucs in a cold climate. Well- the 4 way really becomes a 2 way for overwintering.

Are the 8-10 frames per nuc enough or do I need to add a second level?

Thanks, Rich


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## Michael Palmer

I've wintered with 8-10 frames per nuc, but like to add another story of comb when I harvest the last queens…leaving one queen on each side.

I was able to winter 185 of those queens of mini-frames.


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## MTN-Bees

Thanks Michael


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## kilocharlie

MTN - Thanks for digging this old thread up!

Michael - Thank you for yet another fantastic post! What month would you start making up those "half-frame" hives (4-way / 2-way) if you were going to do 1,400 of them (including frames and feeders)? How much total time do you estimate to completion (not including comb drawn)?

BTW, I really appreciate your explanation of the groups and work scheduling. Thank you.


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## Michael Palmer

kilocharlie said:


> Michael - Thank you for yet another fantastic post! What month would you start making up those "half-frame" hives (4-way / 2-way) if you were going to do 1,400 of them (including frames and feeders)? How much total time do you estimate to completion (not including comb drawn)?


Not sure what you are asking.


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## kilocharlie

Michael - 
I'll change the questions.

1) What are the dimensions of your 4-way boxes?

2) What are the dimensions of your frames?

I can do the calculations for any size production run and schedule off of this. Thank you.


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## KevinR

kilocharlie said:


> Michael -
> 1) What are the dimensions of your 4-way boxes?
> 2) What are the dimensions of your frames?


Not sure about Mister Palmer, but mine are medium frames are 9.25" at on the top bar. Bottom bar adjusted accordingly. I believe his are deeps, but that shouldn't matter in a time required question.

The hive is the same as a normal box but ~1/2" longer to account for the divider. My grow out boxes are just a normal super with a 3 layered stack of 3/8" plywood which fits fine. There just isn't much room to stack half width supers. So the 4 way boxes are just a little longer to account for the thicker divider.

I order my frames from Mann Lake, then cut them in half and mill the cut ends on a router table. (two ends already milled from factory). I can easily do 100 in a sitting. If I build better jigs, it would take less time. The foundation is plastic, which I just cut in half on the radial arm saw. I believe the next batch, I'll try cutting into thirds to make it go father.

The boxes, I made mostly out of plywood. Just rip into strips and cut to the required length. I'm not sure on the life span of the plywood, but no delimitation in first season. Building/Assembling the boxes should take less time than the making the frames. I just plan on painting them well and seeing how long they last.


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