# Extractor and other equipment....



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Post #1 has a broken link - I believe this M00400 20 frame radial model is the Dadant extractor he is attempting to link to:

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=368


Brazos, the difference between the two links is that while both display an ellipsis "..." as part of the link, yours actually does have periods in the actual link. This is a result of how you copied and pasted from the other thread where you initially posted it.


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## monrovi (Jan 22, 2012)

I purchased a maxant extractor this year. Very nice piece of equipment. Along with that I also use a cold uncapping knife, a Mann lake plastic uncapping tank, capping scratcher, 5 gal bucket strainers, a pail perch , along with many 5 gal buckets, a couple with a honey gate.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

If you now know that bees are going to be a long term part of your life, an extractor that can do 20 frames at a time is not a bad idea. Half stepping is always more expensive. I would advise you to search out a used extractor. Every extractor wears out several beekeepers so find a motorized extractor in that size range. With the money you save buying used. 

Buy a settling tank of at least twenty five gallons. That makes life so much easier. The honey in your jars will all be the same color unless you choose to segregate varietals. A good cheap pre strainer is one leg at a time of a panty hose stretched over a bucket. With some juggling you can switch to another bucket and dump the first bucket in your tank. That way you have fairly clean honey that will clarify in the tank with most debris floating and spare heavy things settling on the bottom of the tank. Then when you tent the tank and warm it to 100 degrees. You tap off honey thru a bucket strainer bought at any beek supply. The honey will be ready to bottle.

Get an electric heated uncapping knife. Learn to work fast and between frames immerse it in the cappings in whatever tub you use to catch them. Otherwise you will burn honey. 

The capping scratcher mentioned you need to but the extractor and a settling tank and the knife are the expense. The rest is just tubs and buckets and a mess. 

OH, when the panty hose is full of wet gooey cappings dripping honey. I hang them from the garage door tracks over a bucket to drip out. That is one cheap and messy way of starting for a guy planning on getting a little bigger.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

brazosdog02 said:


> Im a relatively new beekeeper and considering buying my extraction equipment. I am looking at this one:
> 
> http://www.dadant.com/catalog/produc...roducts_id=368
> 
> My reading leads me to believe its a great product? Will it be a QUALITY piece of equipment for years to come?


I had and enjoyed a Dadant extractor for over 20 years until a hurricane ate it. Great piece of equipment that I will have a very hard time, indeed, replacing. Dadant builds good stuff!

Rusty


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

I've been looking for a good used extractor for some time now , seems like the good quality brand name ones in the 6-8 frame range are hard to find and when you do find one they want almost as much as a new one . I like the dadant Ranger model but so far no luck yet .


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

I thought clarifying was from straining? What is tenting?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I kept bees 26 years without an extractor. It's not necessary.  If you want to spend the money on it, then I would buy at least an 18 frame electric one. If quality is your only concern, I'd buy a Maxant. If price is your concern you'd have to see what current prices are from all the suppliers.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Clarifying is just a word for clearing. Micro wax particles rise as do the little air bubbles all resulting in a clear clean product. If you just put a clean plastic tarp over your tank with a space heater in a couple deep boxes so nothing catches fire, a milk house heater will warm the honey up enough to clarify and to go thru the bucket filters you can buy from bee supply outfits. Don't get the tightest one as it takes all day to get a little honey thru it and it just doesn't need to be filtered that fine. Just ways of operating til you can justify a more commercial type rig.


brazosdog02 said:


> I thought clarifying was from straining? What is tenting?


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

You want be disappointed with the Dadant. You can extract 20 deep frames at one time or 30 something medium or shallow. They come with a variable speed direct drive motor. I have the power ranger from Dadant and it is a nice little extractor. I want to upgrade to the 20 frame this year too.


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## papa (Oct 4, 2010)

I bought a used Dadant 18 frame radial and can't imagine extracting any other way. I don't know how old it is, but I'd bet it's at least 20. I don't know if they have changed any of the working parts, but if it is the same or similar I would highly recommend it. It's a lot of money, but it's a great investment.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

brazosdog02 said:


> I only have 2 hives now, but plans of expanding quickly.


To what level? Will it be a business with write offs? Will you be paying for labor? These are the questions you should ask yourself before you buy anything. The biggest is not always the best. Some times, most times it is better to buy two smaller ones and work the two as a cell. You load one while the other is spinning.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>You can extract 20 deep frames at one time or 30 something medium or shallow. 

The only questions would be "do you extract in your kitchen?" and "will it fit through the door to get it in the kitchen?"


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> The only questions would be "do you extract in your kitchen?"


I think my next investment is going to have to be a dedicated building.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

I am the labor but it will be for ag purposes and write offs. Mostly, I don't want to spend a ton of time extracting. However I can do it quickest with the least amount of work is what I'm after.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

brazosdog02 said:


> I am the labor but it will be for ag purposes and write offs.


I am not sure how beekeepers write off bee equipment that only gets used a few hours a year. It would seem the IRS would have a ruling on that.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

Acebird said:


> I am not sure how beekeepers write off bee equipment that only gets used a few hours a year. It would seem the IRS would have a ruling on that.


It is a business expense.
A $250,000 combine only gets used 2 or 3 weeks out of the year, should farmers not be able to write that off?


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## Hokie Bee Daddy (Apr 1, 2011)

Acebird said:


> I am not sure how beekeepers write off bee equipment that only gets used a few hours a year. It would seem the IRS would have a ruling on that.


The IRS doesn't care how much you use it as long as you use it. They do care if your business writes it off and you turn around and use it for personal use too (as in vehicles).


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LSHonda310 said:


> It is a business expense.


What business? Beekeeping or agriculture? Could you write off a back hoe if you have 5 hives and you use it to move the hives?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Are you suggesting that an extractor isn't directly tied to the business of beekeeping? A backhoe? That would raise some flags.


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## LSHonda310 (Mar 30, 2013)

Acebird said:


> What business? Beekeeping or agriculture? Could you write off a back hoe if you have 5 hives and you use it to move the hives?


Yes, as long as that is all you use it for.
But that wouldn't be a good business expense for 5 hives.
Beekeeping is tied to agriculture.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

You can write off/depreciate anything that is used exclusively for your business AND your expectation is for that business to be profitable. If you cannot reasonably expect a profit, then it's not a business; it's a hobby.

JMO

Rusty


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## Cascade Hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Acebird said:


> I am not sure how beekeepers write off bee equipment that only gets used a few hours a year. It would seem the IRS would have a ruling on that.


You can write it off. List it on your Schedule C.

(Edit: Life will be easier if you get on the IRS website and apply for an employer ID number if you are filing as SB sole proprietor. It's free.)


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## Hokie Bee Daddy (Apr 1, 2011)

It used to be that a business had to show a profit once every 5 years (or 7?) unless it was rental real estate which could show a loss perpetually. Does anyone know if that is the case for beekeeping? Is there a different rule since it is considered agriculture. Thanks.


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## Cascade Hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Yes there are rules. (Steve Jobs didn't file a profit for seven years.) My better half sets up businesses for a living. A business consultant isn't cheap but worth their weight in gold.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't need bees for ag exemption I'm already good. Really I'm interested in having 5-10 hives or more and the ability to do 20 frames at a time is nice. I don't mind spending money I. Good equipment. I'm way over buying cheap crap that just kind of works. If the dadant is a good nearly profession kind of unit then that's what I want. I use a commercial grAde mower for my grass and its worth every penny over cheaper junk. It also cost several thousand more than residential stuff and I'd buy it again if I had to.

My big thing is time. It's limited. I have crops to harvest already and I don't want to spend all weekend extracting honey if it can be done in a few hours. That's how I ended up with a big one. I definately want electric.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I am a huge Maxant fan. Get the 1400 P. http://www.maxantindustries.com/extractors.html It is cheaper then the one you are looking at and Maxants rock. Call over there and talk with him and you will know why they are the best.



Cascade Hunter said:


> You can write it off. List it on your Schedule C.
> 
> (Edit: Life will be easier if you get on the IRS website and apply for an employer ID number if you are filing as SB sole proprietor. It's free.)


Or better yet do a schedule F. I also got my property taxes reduced by 1/2 by becoming a farm. Check into it.


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## Cascade Hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Yep. If you can.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Ya but you can load 10 more frames in the Danant per load if you are running med and small. I have a friend that has the Maxant And one that owns the Danant. I had plan on buying the Maxant but I am now leaning to the Danant. Now if Maxant came up with a direct drive that could do 30 med. for the same $$$ I don't know what I would do.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Barry said:


> Are you suggesting that an extractor isn't directly tied to the business of beekeeping?


No I am saying, maybe asking, is an extractor tied to an ag business if you just put a few hives on your property.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

Acebird said:


> What business? Beekeeping or agriculture? Could you write off a back hoe if you have 5 hives and you use it to move the hives?


Yes

I write off my truck as a business expense because I use it to drive to and from my yards, I write off my cell phone as a business expense because I use it to make business related calls, I write off portions of my house because I have a honey house set up in a shed in my back yard, I use my garage solely for wood working, I have an office in a spare bedroom, the square footage on all of that is a write off. I write off propane as a business expense because I use it to heat the shed while I'm extracting (like I will be tomorrow, god I wish there were more hours in the day. Can't believe I'm still extracting honey  ), I write off travel expenses when I go to beekeeping events, meetings, classes, etc... Anything that is directly or indirectly related to beekeeping I write off. I think we even write off a percentage of our utilities bills; I would have to check with the accountant and the misses since they do all of the paper work but you can write off nearly everything that, as I said, has a direct or indirect involvement with the business.



Rusty Hills Farm said:


> You can write off/depreciate anything that is used exclusively for your business AND your expectation is for that business to be profitable. If you cannot reasonably expect a profit, then it's not a business; it's a hobby.
> 
> JMO
> 
> Rusty



This is a good point, this is one of the reasons we started using an accountant and had to come up with a business plan and some other little nuances that took an afternoon to do (projected income after 'X' amount of time) and the good thing about this is you don't actually ever have to turn a profit. I think our accountant said we needed to have projections that showed us at least turning a profit within about five years; that doesn't necessarily mean we have to turn a profit within five years, it just shows that our goals and our projections have that as our target.

_Edit_ This is an after thought too because we may fudge our numbers a touch when reporting income from the business because we are still in the process of setting everything up but honey is a food item and as such is tax exempt. So even if you're turning a profit off of honey sales AFAIK it is exempt. At least that's what I plan on telling the judge


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Moon said:


> I think our accountant said we needed to have projections that showed us at least turning a profit within about five years; that doesn't necessarily mean we have to turn a profit within five years, it just shows that our goals and our projections have that as our target.


It ain't over until it is over. You can project all you want but if you continue as a fly by night the IRS will go back and dish out penalties. They will never hit you the first year but ten years down the road when it is worth it for them to audit you you will pay. At that point they will dictate to you what they think the rules are regardless of what your accountant told you.

I asked "beekeeping or agriculture". The OP did not state that he was going to have a bee business. I don't think bee hives are an expense for raising cattle or crops. I could be wrong.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

Nothing we do is fly by night, our accountant is a respectable accountant from a local firm that deals specifically with business tax law and if ten years down the road the IRS feels we have not paid our fair share we will gladly reimburse them to the extent the law demands; however, we've been audited two years in a row now because we screwed up our taxes before we went to an accountant to the tune of about 10k that needed to be repaid in back taxes. This wasn't an intentional offense on our part and the IRS as well as our accountant were extremely understanding and worked well with us to remedy the situation. I've dealt with the IRS more in the last three years then a lot of people will in their lifetime and they're not the bogeyman and they're not out to rob you blind. They're a government agency that plays by a rule book and things are pretty cut and dried in their eyes ( at least in my experience). They are still an agency ran by people capable of feeling sympathy and expressing empathy if you are genuinely trying to do things by the book.

¥ SENT FROM MY MOBILE ¥


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Hmm, if you weren't fly by night then why did you get audited and then have to pay 10K in back taxes? That is not meant as an insult it is meant to warn others that if it is a serious business you should get the account first before you do one day of business. Even then you are not covered. Too much to learn.

Many people start out with bees as a hobby and then get a bright idea that if I get more bees it is now a business with deductions. Well no it isn't it is a way to make some income with no business deductions.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird, 

Could you please share some of your business successes with the members here; allow us to understand how you developed your superior business acumen.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

I don't think I could accurately describe my situation without writing a massive post but the auditing was not a result of the business or taxes associated with our business. It was due to misunderstandings on filings for our personal income but we were in the process of setting up our business so a lot of the questions that came up about filling and tax paper work were readily answered by the IRS agents we were working with which in turn lead to hiring an accountant.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> Acebird,
> 
> Could you please share some of your business successes with the members here; allow us to understand how you developed your superior business acumen.


It is definitely not superior and you are taking the thread off topic but I will oblige.

I have a lawn care / snow plow business and manage a 48 unit rental complex. My wife runs the largest and oldest self storage facility in Upstate NY. She also runs an antique mall in Little Falls that has about 60 vendors on two floors in an old mill building. Most of what my wife and I do we do together. Although she doesn't run the plow she does use a shovel to help me out. She is very good at customer service and is a big help to me with renting apartments.

My wife’s father is the only surviving member of a partnership that grew to over 500 rental units between 12 complexes in the Upstate area. The one that I manage is over 40 years old and has 48 units. He also ran several retail chains throughout NY, VA, PA, DC and Maryland. 

My oldest brother owns a manufacturing rep business that is recreational oriented. Prior to that he sold radar systems to the Pentagon for GE and was a VP at NiMo. My older brother recently retired from running a group of Subway’s. My brother in law runs a wholesale distributor business in the construction industry.

I might have picked up some pointers from these associations.

What does my resume’ have to do with bees or the posts I have made?


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

Acebird said:


> It is definitely not superior and you are taking the thread off topic but I will oblige.
> 
> What does my resume’ have to do with bees or the posts I have made?


Well nothing, obviously, but it definitely was an interesting read.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

So, I see this other Dadant Extractor, its a 6-12 radial, the M00411. Would that be more suitable for my purposes than the 20 frame? I dont know if I would ever have more than 50 hives, probably no more than 25 in the near future.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

brazosdog02 said:


> So, I see this other Dadant Extractor, its a 6-12 radial, the M00411. Would that be more suitable for my purposes than the 20 frame? I dont know if I would ever have more than 50 hives, probably no more than 25 in the near future.


I'm a first year Beek, bought the Maxant 9 frame electric, which actually extracts 6 radially and 3 tangentially, so I just do 6 frames at a time, so I don't have to worry about flipping the 3 tangential ones.

Anyway, I had 10 hives but only pulled honey from 6, a total of 264 pounds. The extractor performed great, and I LOVE IT. However, there is already a part of me wishing it was bigger, LOL!. I actually thought I was over buying beforehand, I don't feel that way now. If you see 25 to 50 hives anywhere in your future, I wouldn't even consider anything smaller than a 20 frame extractor. I was eyeing the Maxant 20 frame at the ABF conference, a good looking machine!


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

OK. I dont have a dedicated honey house and I understand I need to bolt these extractors down to keep them from walking away from me. I was told that with a 20 frame, I would exceed my uncapping and it would be a waste of money, but maybe not.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think if you only have a few hives any of them are a waste of money unless you find one used and cheap... but if you have enough to be worth buying an extractor, 18 frames would be my minimum. That's only two supers. I've only ever bought one extractor and it's 18 frames. If it would fit through my kitchen door, I'd rather have a 36 frame...


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

brazosdog02 said:


> OK. I dont have a dedicated honey house and I understand I need to bolt these extractors down to keep them from walking away from me. I was told that with a 20 frame, I would exceed my uncapping and it would be a waste of money, but maybe not.


Not sure what they mean by "exceed your uncapping, and a waste of money"...Assuming they just mean overkill??? If so, what's more valuable, your money or your time. If you buy the larger capacity extractor, it cost you more money, ONCE! If you buy too small, it cost you your time, EVERY time you extract...for the next 2, 5, 10, 20+....years!

Although, someone did raise a good point, if you are going to extract in your kitchen, which I do, before buying a 20 frame, you may want to confirm it fits through the door.

As for bolting it down, I simply took a piece of plywood, maybe a foot or so wider than the footprint of the extractor stand. and mounted three bolts through it, flush on the bottom. I lay it on my kitchen floor, place the extractor stand in the bolt holes, and bolt it down securely, having enough plywood to stand on while running the extractor....Which works fine!

However, I recently got a tip that was pretty impressive, which I think the person offering had originally got off bee source. He put his sheet of plywood on 3 Casters and bungees his catch bucket to the extractor stand. While it defies all logic, I've been told by several folks that it runs smoothly and goes nowhere...It basically sits there and dances in place.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

> Although, someone did raise a good point, if you are going to extract in your kitchen, which I do, before buying a 20 frame, you may want to confirm it fits through the door.


French Doors straight to the kitchen from outside.



> I think if you only have a few hives any of them are a waste of money unless you find one used and cheap... but if you have enough to be worth buying an extractor


I agree. But in my other hobbies that have panned out, I find that I GENERALLY like the hobby enough to where I could have just gotten quality equipment and bought it once. I only have a few hives now, but this is kind of a family hobby and we are planning on getting more to make it more worthwhile.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

brazosdog02 said:


> OK. I dont have a dedicated honey house and I understand I need to bolt these extractors down to keep them from walking away from me. I was told that with a 20 frame, I would exceed my uncapping and it would be a waste of money, but maybe not.


It's not. I got a used Dadant 20 frame that I rebuilt a couple years ago over the winter. It can handle 36 super frames. I don't have a honey house, I use my garage. I wheel it in, extract, wheel it out, hose it down and trailer it back to storage. It's used 2 days a year (July 4th and Labor Day weekend) but it saves me huge amounts of time (used to have a reversible 2-frame hand crank). 

My time is infinitely more valuable than my money. I'm up to 20 hives now and will be at 25 for '14. I've got the extractor, a Maxant uncapping tank, Maxant chain uncapper, 2 hot knives and a 500# settling tank. All on wheels and all paid for by profits from selling honey and handling bee related challenges. Assuming things continue to go well in '14 I'll buy a Maxant Jr. cappings spinner, and a couple of 16 gallon Maxant bottling tanks. It's when I run out of equipment to buy to save my time that I'll start paying myself with this business.


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

brazosdog02 said:


> OK. I dont have a dedicated honey house and I understand I need to bolt these extractors down to keep them from walking away from me. I was told that with a 20 frame, I would exceed my uncapping and it would be a waste of money, but maybe not.


I have a twenty frame Maxant and it don't even have legs on it. I have it setting on three double deep hive bodies and it don't walk anywhere. If it is off balance it will wobble but you can rearrange the frames and stop that. I have a room where I extract honey and I don't have to move it so it is nice to extract 20 frames and let them drain till I pull 20 more the next day or so. I can't do all mine the same day because of other things like a job gets in the way of that.


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

I have a Dadant Ranger, and I have been happy with it. I don't loose a alot of time extracting. It seems by the time I can get 6 frames uncapped and everything situated it is time for another round. I usually work in a basement and the honey gets cold if I pull more than 7-9 supers at one time and bring them in. A bigger extractor would be nice if I had some help though. 

BTW that castor stuff works. I put my extractor on top of a 4 castor dolly I use to move the wood stoves around on and it worked. Craziest thing, and pretty handy to roll it out of the way.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

Just found a 20 Frame Dadant extractor on craigslist! WIN!

Called the guy up and he said he was taking offers and he had several offers for 4000 dollars. FAIL.

WTH? Does Dadant sell a 20 frame commercial or was he on something that is illegal in most states?


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## NonTypicalCPA (Jul 12, 2012)

Acebird said:


> What business? Beekeeping or agriculture? Could you write off a back hoe if you have 5 hives and you use it to move the hives?


I tell my clients they can do whatever they want on their taxes until the IRS comes a-callin (of course I won't prepare their return :no In all honesty, there is such a thing the IRS calls "ordinary and necessary", which I doubt a backhoe for 5 hives would qualify for.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> I've only ever bought one extractor and it's 18 frames. If it would fit through my kitchen door, I'd rather have a 36 frame...


I dont think an extractor would be a welcome addition to the kitchen here, even for just a few hours, and we do have french doors which would allow that 36 frame thru nicely. Mine is in the garage, and that's where it'll be used to extract. I am thinking of a permanent mount at the end of the workbench.

We bought the 9/18 unit from mann lake. I was pondering the smaller unit as 'good enough' until my wife asked me one dumb question. In two years, when you pull supers, how many do you expect to bring off at once ? The answer was, getting close to 2 dozen supers at a go. That's getting up into the range of 200+ frames to extract in a session. At 15 minutes per load, plus the time to load / unload, we are talking now about hours at a stretch, which would become days using the little one and doing 6 at a time radially. For a roughly 50% increase in price, we got triple the capacity. Money well spent.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

brazosdog02 said:


> Just found a 20 Frame Dadant extractor on craigslist! WIN!
> 
> Called the guy up and he said he was taking offers and he had several offers for 4000 dollars. FAIL.
> 
> WTH? Does Dadant sell a 20 frame commercial or was he on something that is illegal in most states?


Tel him to grab one of those suckers and sell it for exactly that! Then ask him for the other guys numbers and agree to sell them gently pre-owned Dadant 20 frame extractors for $3K! They cost $1,625 brand new. So if you bought them, and then immediately sold them, they are "pre-owned". If you sell 2 for $3K each you'll have yours paid for before a drop of honey touches it. He's got some Colorado tobacco or he's a poor liar. 

If you find a used one, make sure to review the bottom bearing, and the electric motor. If it's and old belt drive you can upgrade it to the current direct drive design for about $500. I bought mine for $1K (w/freight) but the motor was damaged in freight. I had to completely tear it apart and diligently clean out the mouse "debris" that had built up in there over the past 15-20 years. I replaced the bearings, upgraded the motor and by the time all was said and done I would have been way better off buying new if you considered my time. However, I get stir crazy over the winter and it gave me a great project to work on. I can't imagine extracting without it now!


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

Does anyone know if the Dadant M00411 and the M00440 have conical bottoms inside?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

M00411 model:


> All welded 24" dia. 27- 1/2" tall stainless steel tank with[HIGHLIGHT] coned bottom [/HIGHLIGHT] and 1 1/2" welded fitting.
> 
> http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=364


The description of the M00440 in this Dadant catalog link uses the phrase "cone bottom".
http://www.bluetoad.com/publication/?i=61394&p=77

I tested the 'bluetoad' link above, and it works, but in earlier threads some reported issues with similar links from that host.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

I'm an idiot. I searched on conical. Didn't see it and gave up. Lol.

Still wondering if the 12 frame would be better than the 20 frame for physc size reasons. Can't see how the capacity difference is worthwhile. I can get either in my kitchen but working space may be tight. Storing it is the issue.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

It depends on how much honey you process. I am 
Moving from a 12 to their 20/30 one. 
David


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

My-smokepole said:


> It depends on how much honey you process. I am
> Moving from a 12 to their 20/30 one.
> David


Looks like a used 12 may be hitting the market shortly Brazosdog02! 20 versus 12 is huge. To my knowledge the 12 fits 6 deep or 12 super frames, the 20 fits 20 deeps or 36 super frames. Cost wise it's less than $400 difference (+/-25% more) but your extracting difference is 3x or more depending what size frames you're extracting. 

Now physical size constraints is a whole different ball of wax that only you can decide. My 20 is on lockable casters that I wheel into the garage to extract and wheel out to clean and store.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

brazosdog02 said:


> I can get either in my kitchen but working space may be tight.


What am I missing here? Why does everybody want to put the extractor in the kitchen ? Ours is out in the garage, what would be the benefit of extracting in the kitchen ?


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

grozzie2 said:


> What am I missing here? Why does everybody want to put the extractor in the kitchen ? Ours is out in the garage, what would be the benefit of extracting in the kitchen ?


My garage is hot in the summer, and when I tried to extract there with the door open, the bees were everywhere. I extract in the air conditioned house for that reason. If your bees are at another location, fine. I'll never extract in my garage again after trying it once, unless I move the bees off of my yard.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

The honey will flow better in the heat. Why do you here talk of a hot room on the commercial side. 
David


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

grozzie2 said:


> What am I missing here? Why does everybody want to put the extractor in the kitchen ? Ours is out in the garage, what would be the benefit of extracting in the kitchen ?


Water, sink...


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Water, sink...


snacks


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Why does everybody want to put the extractor in the kitchen ? Ours is out in the garage, what would be the benefit of extracting in the kitchen ? 

My garage is far from beeproof. There is no sink in the garage. My kitchen is much cleaner (dirt floor in the garage) and easier to keep that way. I've never lived anywhere where the garage was such that it was an option.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Use the garage. Set up some fans, buckets of water for rinsing hands/equipment, some ice water for drinking and some music. I have a generic tub sink installed in my garage for this reason. Pull the supers in the evening, set up the extraction room, close the garage doors and start in the early morning. Yea it's a little warm, but the honey flows quickly. Most importantly when it's time for clean up, wheel the equipment out, drag a hose in the garage and hose it out. Done. 

In a kitchen, if you have any quantity of extraction you'll end up with honey tracked or spilled in a wide area and be cleaning up for a while. Every time someone steps in something sticky or ants show up for months to come it'll be a bone of contention. Dropping a frame or propolis smears in a garage is no big deal. In a kitchen they're time going down the drain.

A household kitchen should be off limits for marital harmony alone. 99% of the time it's a production bottleneck for anyone but a small hobbyist. Considering a 12 or 20 frame radial extractor puts you above the small hobbyist category.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

grozzie2 said:


> What am I missing here? Why does everybody want to put the extractor in the kitchen ? Ours is out in the garage, what would be the benefit of extracting in the kitchen ?


Water, sink, cleanliness, climate controlled, bee tight, and more available space...I don't have a garage, I have a carport with only a small storage shed......Just to name a few!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

D Coates said:


> Considering a 12 or 20 frame radial extractor puts you above the small hobbyist category.


And that should tell you not to use a garage. Honey is a food item.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

Thats like saying 'considering an F-350 puts you above the commuter category'.

How does having a larger capacity extractor have anything to do with the type of category you fall into. Maybe I want to extract honey as quickly as possible and I only have 10 hives. Im still not able to do it commercially, but as a hobbyist, i can do it a heck of a lot quicker.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

One thing to consider is that regardless of the capacity of your extractor, you cannot get greater total throughput than your ability to uncap frames (prepare frames for extracting) while the first batch of frames is being extracted.

_If _you can only uncap 90 frames per hour, it doesn't help much to have an extractor that can extract 180 frames per hour.

Or, to put it another way, that F-350 wont get you to work any faster than the guy who is in the Pinto _in front of you_. :lookout:


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

Right, thats what I was trying to get at earlier in the thread, but no one seemed to be overly concerned about that. How long does it take to uncap with an uncapping planer?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> _If _you can only uncap 90 frames per hour, it doesn't help much to have an extractor that can extract 180 frames per hour.


It does if you have two uncappers.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you can only uncap 90 frames per hour, it doesn't matter how many uncappers you have. 90 frames per hour is 90 frames per hour.


The point of my original comment was that the capacity of a single element (the extractor) in the process is not the key driver for overall production. The limiting factor is the throughput of the _slowest _piece of the extraction process. That limitation just _might _be the number of hands the operator has. :lookout:


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I have tracked my speed over a couple of summers, and I uncap at the rate of 2 1/2 supers an hour. My 20 frame Maxant works well. I use an uncapping fork. I tried the uncapping plane but didn't like it, I found it heavy and awkward.
I have looked at the Kelley vibrating jiggle thingy. 
http://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/16/H...apping/4026/Kelley-s-Electric-Vibrating-Knife
I wonder if that would speed things up, and have asked on Beesource a couple of times and noone has bit to tell me whether it is a good buy, or after I bought it I would want to say "goodbye". 
It is really important to me that whatever I buy is simple; I am mechanically inept, and there are only so many things my wife has time to fix.


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

Screw it. I'll get the 20 frame extractor. My future may have a lot more hives and that'll be one less thing to buy. 

Wanna sell the plane?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

From my point of view the bottom limit for me is 18 frames. The top limit is what will fit through the door...


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

OK...1400P Maxant vs. Dadant M00440???? Maxant is about 200 cheaper even with shipping to texas. But the dadant holds more right? Why should I go with Maxant over Dadant or vice versa? Materials are the same? Both USA made....


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Every extractor wears out several beekeepers. Have you exhausted the possibility of finding a used extractor in your area?


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

if by exhausted, you mean 'checked craigslist', then yes. I found one...for 4000 dollars. But I havn't found anything else.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Acebird said:


> And that should tell you not to use a garage. Honey is a food item.


Maybe not your garage, but mine is fine........


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

> Every extractor wears out several beekeepers. Have you exhausted the possibility of finding a used extractor in your area?


Looks like either dadant or maxant extractor will work, but im trying to decide if the lower maintenance of the direct drive is worth it. The belt drive has wear items on it and sooner or later they have to be replaced. The motor is cheaper on the maxant vs. the dadant though. The big selling point for me is that the maxant has a smaller extractor and still holds 20 frames. It will fit through the door for storage. The dadant would not and I would have to store it elsewhere. I just don't know.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> If you can only uncap 90 frames per hour, it doesn't matter how many uncappers you have. 90 frames per hour is 90 frames per hour.


You were comparing the run rate of two pieces of equipment.


> The point of my original comment was that the capacity of a single element (the extractor) in the process is not the key driver for overall production. The limiting factor is the throughput of the _slowest _piece of the extraction process.


Not always. Engineers do time studies and create work cells to be the most efficient process. In American factories labor rates dictate throughput which is why things are automated. Beekeeping runs the gamete from mom and pop crushing and straining to a full blown automated honey house. Most equipment is usually run below it's advertised run rate although I have witnessed a lot of equipment run way beyond its stated run rate. If someone is going to say beekeeping equipment in general outlast several beekeepers then that suggest that there is good opportunity to increase its capacity.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

So, Ace, which extractor are you recommending to Brazosdog02, the _Dadant _or _Maxant__? _:scratch:


Somehow, I get the impression that your suggestion of a '_full blown automated honey house_' is just not in the cards for Brazosdog02! 



:gh:

... how many _hands _do _your _extractor operators have? ... :s


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## CMCDennisS (Sep 28, 2012)

Let the accountants and Sanfords figure out the break-even points and whatever awaits you on the endless search for a used extractor. Whatever you find, will probably be a compromise.
Buy new now and don't give up looking for a used one.
Buy it, clean it, sell it for twice and help pay for the good one.
Everybody has a different situation. Either piece of equipment is well-made, but, my opinion- 

Life is too short not to own Maxant!

My actual experience with this situation-

My first year and I had 8 medium frames to extract and I was hooked on the bees!
I looked at extractors. Touched the cheap imports and such.
Then came Dadant and Maxant. Wow! Both are well-made.
Direct drive motor and great capacity with Dadant.

Maxant- pure simplicity and built like a tank. Look at those legs!

I thought I would be deprived without direct electronic controlled propulsion. Wrong.
There is nothing like loading that extractor with twenty mediums, and
turning on the motor and watching the rack slowly start to spin as you turn the manual speed gear.
It is like being on a Carousel and slowly starting to turn. Haven't had it dance yet like many complain.
Stop and smell the roses.
Takes me nine minutes to empty those frames, faster than I am at uncapping.
So I bought a Maxant uncapping knife to speed things up. It did quite well after a break in period for me. I don't know why this knife will not uncap all three sizes of frames for some people.
Once I uncapped the first one I knew I could use a staging place for frames prior to going to the extractor.
Maxant MOBILE UNCAPPING TANK!
This unit allows me to get ahead of my extractor and uncap while extracting.
No idle time.
So that is what I got and haven't looked back.
I sure have fun with it, and the whole operation runs better when I have my operator's cap on. Had to ask for it!)
Love Maxant and everybody at that company!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> So, Ace, which extractor are you recommending to Brazosdog02, the _Dadant _or _Maxant__? _:scratch:


Seriously, do you think he would listen? He has two hives, M3100-6 because I could get it at Betterbee. He would have no trouble offing it should he quit beekeeping or become the next Andes.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> ... ... Love Maxant and everybody at that company!

I hope you also managed to at least extract a bonus Maxant _hat _from Jake! :lookout:


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I got the hat (not the extractor). It's really nice.


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## CMCDennisS (Sep 28, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> > ... ... Love Maxant and everybody at that company!
> 
> I hope you also managed to at least extract a Maxant _hat _from Jake! :lookout:


Yes I did! That is my operator's cap. It puts me in the right frame of mind. Yes, Jake is fun and treats you right!


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## brazosdog02 (Feb 5, 2013)

> Seriously, do you think he would listen? He has two hives, M3100-6 because I could get it at Betterbee. He would have no trouble offing it should he quit beekeeping or become the next Andes.


You got me figured out.


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