# how to tell if store sugar is from cane or beet



## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I have no idea how you would do a home test to find the type of sugar. It doesn't really matter, they are both the same for making syrup.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

johnwratcliff said:


> Guys I bought some sugar from food lion. Their store brand. It does not specify that is from cane or beets. How can you tell?


Not to be "smart," but why do you care? Bees take both just fine.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I have come to believe that if it doesn't say "pure cane sugar" then you can assume it is beet sugar. Even the walmart brand has 2 distinctly different bags for their generic store brand and one says pure cane sugar.


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## johnwratcliff (Feb 24, 2015)

I have read on this site and from other locals that beet sugar cause issues with brood


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

If beet sugar is harmful to bees, I would be afraid to see what our bees would be like. We have fed beet sugar for 8 years, and have incredible bees.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

ruthiesbees said:


> I have come to believe that if it doesn't say "pure cane sugar" then you can assume it is beet sugar. Even the walmart brand has 2 distinctly different bags for their generic store brand and one says pure cane sugar.


DITTO


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

johnwratcliff said:


> I have read on this site and from other locals that beet sugar cause issues with brood


That Is Bull both are mainly sucrose also known as dextrose with very little free glactose and fructose if any at all. The only difference between the two is the campaigns sponsored by the cane growers association, Great western sugar is produced from beets grown exclusively in the United States.

Addition: Besides my family in western Nebraska need to eat too.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

johnwratcliff said:


> I have read on this site and from other locals that beet sugar cause issues with brood


Sorry John, that is just plain incorrect.......... just use any white sugar (be it cane or otherwise) and you'll be fine...


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

The cane VS beet thing has been around a while. Until someone coughs up a good double blind study I'm on the fence. There are probably some micronutrient/mineral differences between the two. If the difference is enough to "make a difference" I can not say. 

Correlation and causation are not always in the same bed together.

For what its worth: It my experience that all hives fed either dies within 3 or 4 years anyways......


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

johnwratcliff said:


> I have read on this site and from other locals that beet sugar cause issues with brood


it must be true if you read it on the internet... i read your original question and my instant response was "who cares"


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## Rxmaker (Jul 6, 2011)

Sucrose from Beet is the same as Sucrose from Cane. *Sucrose is Sucrose*

TenBears
Sucrose is a 2 part sugar with one half being glucose (dextrose) and the other half
is fructose. One being a 6 carbon sugar and one being a 5 carbon sugar.

The glucose and fructose are linked via an ether bond between C1 on the glucosyl subunit and C2 on the fructosyl unit.

Peter W. RPh
Belgrade, MT


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The sub-text in the canard that Sugar Beet sugar is bad for bees derives from the situation that 95% of sugar beets in the US are Roundup Ready GMO. Sugar Cane has virus resistant GMO in the trial stages worldwide, but is not generally considered GMO as a field crop.

The highly refined and recrystallized sucrose of both products has no bearing on its relationship to bee health. There is a magical belief that GMO genes have some "infective" property that transmits to food stuff. That is fairy tale scare tactic at its worst.

I haven't seen discussion of the actual pollinator effects of loss of weed forage in management of herbicide-resistant beet sugar vs. the clean cultivated conventional plantings.

The whole-system environmental ethics of sugar beet vs. sugar cane must balance the "cost" of GMO fields in Idaho vs. sucking the Everglades (or the Brazilian pantanal) dry to grow the giant grass. Just too many hungry mouths on our planet.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

There have also been concerns related to sugar beets treated with neonicotinoids, resulting in a contaminated sugar product. See Randy's test results below.

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/testing-of-bee-feed-syrups-for-neonicotinoid-residues/


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## Deucebland (May 19, 2015)

If it doesn't specifically say cane sugar, it's beet sugar. One problem with Beet sugar you may have, is that if you are making syrup, it will crystallize much easier than cane.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Besides everything posted, one way I found out how to tell if it's beet or cane is to boil a cup of it in some water like making a 1:1 syrup. Once cooled, it turns an Amber color.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

hex0rz said:


> Besides everything posted, one way I found out how to tell if it's beet or cane is to boil a cup of it in some water like making a 1:1 syrup. Once cooled, it turns an Amber color.


But which ONE turns amber?


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

About a month ago I made up some to feed to mating nucs and used Cane sugar from Costco and it was amber.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

beedeetee said:


> About a month ago I made up some to feed to mating nucs and used Cane sugar from Costco and it was amber.


Mine turns amber and I'm sure it's NOT cane sugar I'm using.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Deucebland said:


> If it doesn't specifically say cane sugar, it's beet sugar.


That is a safe bet. If you are trying to avoid GMO's use cane not beet.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> But which ONE turns amber?


Lol, oops!

If it's beet, it will turn Amber.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Was it c&h brand?


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

beedeetee said:


> About a month ago I made up some to feed to mating nucs and used Cane sugar from Costco and it was amber.


Was it c&h brand?


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## Dave A. (Mar 13, 2015)

hex0rz said:


> Was it c&h brand?


My last batch of syrup was made with C&H Pure Cane sugar - and it was amber in color when finished. I make 5:3 not sure if that makes any difference on the color of syrup or not.


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## jjohnsind (Apr 24, 2014)

I've used both, and they both are SLIGHTLY amber. I am gonna guess that if its cane sugar, it will state it.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

hex0rz said:


> Was it c&h brand?


I just walked down and looked at the remaining bags and yes it says "C&H Pure Cane Sugar". It turned amber (2:1). I don't remember making up sugar syrup that didn't. I don't feed much but I always though syrup turned amber. I probably usually use beet sugar, but I'll bet that beet and cane sugar are 99.99999% the same.


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## bdouglas (Dec 18, 2014)

In another life, I spent 20 years in quality control in food processing. Based on my experience, I would not bet my life that sugar labeled as cane sugar in anything but sugar, maybe cane maybe not. A sugar warehouse is NOT under constant FDA inspection and the guy moving a 2 story high mountain of sugar with a front end loader probably does not care.:scratch:

I buy what ever is cheapest. If it's good enough for my granddaughter, it's good enough for my insects.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

bdouglas said:


> In another life, I spent 20 years in quality control in food processing. Based on my experience, I would not bet my life that sugar labeled as cane sugar in anything but sugar, maybe cane maybe not. A sugar warehouse is NOT under constant FDA inspection and the guy moving a 2 story high mountain of sugar with a front end loader probably does not care.:scratch:
> 
> I buy what ever is cheapest. If it's good enough for my granddaughter, it's good enough for my insects.


Yup!


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Huh, well scratch my comment, then, lol.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

bdouglas said:


> A sugar warehouse is NOT under constant FDA inspection and the guy moving a 2 story high mountain of sugar with a front end loader probably does not care.:scratch:


You probably could say that about every life saving medical device and prescription drug every manufactured anywhere. The FDA does not do constant inspections. But they have a documentation requirement protocol that is pretty good at catching the "I don't care". As an individual the "I don't care" is fired instantly when caught. As a company they are fined extensively, burdened with more documentation and corrective actions or shut down all together. I would hazard a guess that if a product is labeled "pure cane sugar" it is 99.9% accurate.


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

It is my understanding that sugar (sucrose) sold for human consumption is 99.95% pure, whether from beet or from cane. I suspect that the remaining 0.05% impurity in cane sugar is very similar to the 0.05% impurity in beet sugar.

The two main differences I know of are:

Cane regrows while beets are replanted each year
Most cane-derived sucrose is imported


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## bdouglas (Dec 18, 2014)

Acebird said:


> I would hazard a guess that if a product is labeled "pure cane sugar" it is 99.9% accurate.


All honey labeled Clover Honey is 99.9% accurate?


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

:applause:


bdouglas said:


> All honey labeled Clover Honey is 99.9% accurate?


 absolutely, especialy if it is labeled "natural' and sold in a farmers market in a nice urban area or on the internet... or more accurate yet, a health food store at the mall.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

bdouglas said:


> All honey labeled Clover Honey is 99.9% accurate?


FYI: DNA sequencing says that every plant is 99.9% related to clover.... Were all good.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

bdouglas said:


> All honey labeled Clover Honey is 99.9% accurate?


You should know that the production of honey does not come under the FDA guidelines. If it did there probably wouldn't be anyone under 1000 hives selling honey to the public.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

hex0rz said:


> Was it c&h brand?


IIRC, their jingle used to go like this: 

C&H
Pure cane sugar 
From Hawaii 
Grown in the sun
When you cook, when you bake - for goodness sake make it C&H
C&H, pure cane sugar, that's the one!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> You should know that the production of honey does not come under the FDA guidelines. If it did there probably wouldn't be anyone under 1000 hives selling honey to the public.


The FDA _DOES_ have the legal authority to regulate honey.

You can see that from this page: http://www.fda.gov/food/guidancereg...ryinformation/labelingnutrition/ucm389501.htm

While that document is a draft, the FDA is still taking comments on the rules, so those rules are not in effect, _yet_.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

bdouglas said:


> All honey labeled Clover Honey is 99.9% accurate?


Maybe he meant "pure", not "accurate".


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## honey jhar (Jun 5, 2014)

hex0rz said:


> Besides everything posted, one way I found out how to tell if it's beet or cane is to boil a cup of it in some water like making a 1:1 syrup. Once cooled, it turns an Amber color.


I've just a year's experience, but last spring there was a lot of noise over giving syrup to the bees if the sugar itself was boiled. Something about changing the chemical make up of the syrup, damaging the bees. Was this shown to be false?


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

honey jhar said:


> I've just a year's experience, but last spring there was a lot of noise over giving syrup to the bees if the sugar itself was boiled. Something about changing the chemical make up of the syrup, damaging the bees. Was this shown to be false?


If you boil an acidified sugar solution, you get invert sugar. I think that means sucrose is split into 2 simpler components; glucose and fructose. 

I have no idea whether this is good or bad for bees.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> If you boil an acidified sugar solution, you get invert sugar. I think that means sucrose is split into 2 simpler components; glucose and fructose.
> 
> I have no idea whether this is good or bad for bees.


He's talking about formation of HMF, I believe.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

honey jhar said:


> I've just a year's experience, but last spring there was a lot of noise over giving syrup to the bees if the sugar itself was boiled. Something about changing the chemical make up of the syrup, damaging the bees. Was this shown to be false?


HMF, which is bad for bees, is formed by heat or chemical degradation of fructose in the presence of an acid catalyst. 

Yields of up to 64% HMF in two hours are possible in a simple acid solution at 150 C.

The folklore, promoted by certain Internet gurus, that syrup must be acidified creates ideal conditions for the formation of HMF.

Cite:
5-Hydroxymethylfurfural (5-HMF) Production from Hexoses: Limits of Heterogeneous Catalysis in Hydrothermal Conditions and Potential of Concentrated Aqueous Organic Acids as Reactive Solvent System
Rodrigo Lopes de Souza, Hao Yu, Franck Rataboul and Nadine Essayem *
Free access: 
http://www.mdpi.com/2078-1547/3/2/212/pdf


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Why does one care?


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