# Opportunistic Predators - Insatiable apetite for honeybees



## Fishdude123 (Jul 28, 2008)

You might see if you couldn't sell the toads as pets, at least you would have another income stream from your hives. 

I checked my hives out last night with a redlight and was surprised not to see anything, I looked closely at the ground and around the hive. I thought there would be ants or something but there wasn't. Of course I don't live in the desert either.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Toads*

That sounds really incredible, Joseph, not that I don't believe you. Can you get any photos? Apparently the whole neighborhood has found a food source! Seems that maybe this has been going on for a while, building a population that is now dependent on your bee colonies. It is hard to imagine they come back 5-7 miles but hunger is a great motivator! So many toads undoubtedly impact the bee populations.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

This morning I watched some birds near my hives, out behind my office, and I do believe they were eating breakfast. So I made a scarecrow to keep them away. (me and my shotgun) Nah... I just used some pie tins and string and a few stakes. No birds now.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Fishdude123 said:


> You might see if you couldn't sell the toads as pets, at least you would have another income stream from your hives.
> 
> I checked my hives out last night with a redlight and was surprised not to see anything, I looked closely at the ground and around the hive. I thought there would be ants or something but there wasn't. Of course I don't live in the desert either.


If anyone were interested in keeping amphibians as pets, these would probably make one of the best, word is they can live up to twenty years, and they have to be stout beasties to thrive in the desert, but alas it is illegal to even offer them for sale. I'm not sure why.


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## eri (Jun 16, 2008)

This site sells them: 

Adult Male and Female Pair $275.00 
One Adult Toad $150.00 

http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/colorado-river-toad-p-368.html

This is why people want them:

http://bufoalvariusreport.com/


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Bufo*

Now we know why Joseph is seeing, like, MILLIONS OF TOADS!!!


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Maybe you could market your apiary as some type of government funded toad-sanctuary


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Bright ideas*

Or a bed 'n breakfast for...toad lickers. ( check previous post for websites )


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## justin (Jun 16, 2007)

yeah,if you could send me about20 or so...it doesnt do any good to lick these montana toads,i am going to try the rattlesnakes next.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Hello, here is a photo I took last year, the first year of the forced toad migration. It shows a box of toads filling up as I get ready to relocate a group of them. I haven't taken any pics this year, since I put my camera in a safe place - now if I could only remember where that safe place is.

http://www.wjclemens.com/cordovan-honeybee/images/Honeybee_Pests/Colorado_River_Toads.jpg


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Why bother with bees*

Joseph according to the Toad Lickers' websites, you're sitting on a gold mine! Maybe yours are especially desirable having been raised on bees!?

Seriously though you have " a bit of a problem " don't you?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I finally seem to be making some headway against the hordes. Last night after carefully and thoroughly scouring both of my home apiaries for several hours, I was only able to bag eight toads. I decided to save some fuel and wait until after tonights round-up before moving them down the road. This morning I got a surprise, the 5-gallon bucked topped with a metal queen excluder and a concrete block had been knocked over and of course all eight toads had escaped. I guess, tonight I will need to round them all up again. This time I will not wait before I haul them away.


Apparently I am in the midst of a Sonoran Desert Toad hotspot, or my apiaries have created one. I have been contemplating ways to protect the bees from the toads, besides the tedious and annoying process of rounding them up and moving them down the road.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

joseph you have a whale of a lot more patience than i. i'm afraid i would't be using any gas hauling them off and i would'nt bee worried about the ones i caught coming back.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

mike haney said:


> joseph you have a whale of a lot more patience than i. i'm afraid i would't be using any gas hauling them off and i would'nt bee worried about the ones i caught coming back.


Mike Haney,
Thanks for your suggestion -
Since your post, instead of deporting any additional toads I round up - I've enlisted them into helping my garden grow. I go out each night and patrol both of my home apiaries. So far I haven't had a toad-free night, each night I've rounded up a minimum of five new toads, sometimes as many as a dozen. I wonder if the toads will ever learn to eat insects besides honeybees, I was thinking it would be nice if they could learn to eat SHB.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm wondering if you left a few toad bodies around the apiary if they would help deter other toads from coming in... just a thought.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

When I leave a few recently captured toads in a pail with excluder top it seems to usually draw several toads to check it out within an hour or two - I invite them to join those already in the pail.

I don't know if deceased toads would act as a deterrent to other toads - I don't know if they are that sentimental.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

*Still more toads*

Now, close to a month after I began systematically removing toads from my apiaries - toads are still eating my bees. After dark I go out wearing a red LED headlight and wielding an aluminum handled reach extender and capture at least three toads, most nights five toads, and some nights as many as ten. I usually make two and sometimes three toad roundup excursions, 20 min to an hour apart, almost every excursion bags at least one toad. For the most part, earlier in this "toad war" the toads were eating with impunity, around the clock, and my presence would inspire about a half-dozen of them to follow me like dogs to their masters. In that first three days when I was collecting a nearly full, five-gallon bucket of toads, each night, and then relocated them about 5-7 miles downhill - approximately three hundred toads. Since then I've collected almost another two hundred. It seems like the desert can supply hungry toads - to eat my bees - indefinitely.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Toads*

Joseph

Have you considered removing the bees for a period of time? A local wildlife biologist may be helpful too, at least in understanding their life cycle. 

Would it be safe to go out in your back yard at night if the bees were gone?

Where is Alfred Hitchcock?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Tom G. Laury said:


> Joseph
> 
> Have you considered removing the bees for a period of time? A local wildlife biologist may be helpful too, at least in understanding their life cycle.
> 
> ...


I had not thought to move the bees, because with upper/top entrances most of them are fairly safe - and I don't know anywhere around here that is without lots of toads. Bees that alight on the ground or within hopping and tongue-flick range of the toads are the only ones in serious jeopardy. Last year with traditional bottom entrances the toads were feasting and getting fat. This year without any bottom entrances they are working harder to get bee meals, limited mostly to bees that are old, sick, weak, or dead and on or near the ground. The Saguaro National Park is nearby and I have thought to ask the experts there for ideas - though I haven't yet. Presently my truck is out of commission, so moving won't be an option, until I either, finish repairing the truck, or my trailer (the trailer can be pulled with my car).

Concerning safety at night - there used to be feral cats living on our property, but I haven't seen any for about a month now. These toads are infamous for the death of pets who decide to defend themselves by biting.

I have thought that since my apiary is enclosed on three sides with six foot high walls of woven shade cloth, that I could enclose the other side and include a gate, fasten the bottom edge of the shade cloth, to the ground, and I may then have an apiary secure from toad attack - then, with the amphibians under control, I will have to rely on the reptiles to police the sick or dead bees off the ground (they are already doing their part, but they don't seem to have appetites like toads).

Since Hitchcock is no longer with us, perhaps Stephen King would find the subject interesting.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

maybe you could just close the forth side just high enough to step over. that might be easier .


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Joseph, what kind of hive stand are you using? Never seen a toad climb ( at least not yet) the only critter’s I have seen chowing down on my bees are Preying Mantis, wild Turkey and Pheasant.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Mike Haney,
A step wall sounds like an excellent idea.
------------------

Brent Bean,
Most of my hive stands are pairs of 8"x8"x16" concrete blocks, leveled and setting on a pea-gravel size crushed rock base.

The lowest entrances on my hives are on top of two medium supers which are setting on 8" concrete blocks, so about 20-22" up. My recent campaign against the toads was inspired partially by my finding them sitting atop several hives eating bees from their top entrances - and after I removed those hive topping toads, they were soon replaced by others. I don't know if they climbed up there, but it sure seemed like they had.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

*still more toads*



Joseph Clemens said:


> Now, close to a month...It seems like the desert can supply hungry toads - to eat my bees - indefinitely.


You deserve a break today, so get out and get...yourself a few 5 gallon buckets of snakes. With enough "no sholders" around I bet you want be looking for toads any more! 
HAGD and GOOD LUCK


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Predators*

If you felt necessary you could also go to a hot wire ( electric fence ) type thing. But I am not sure if you really view them as a serious pest, a nuisance, or a curiosity? One posting regards the toads eating the slow ones make them sound beneficial, cleaning up sickos? What is the real problem Joseph? Or no prob?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Predators*

Wild Turkey, Pheasant...two new ones on me. 

Anyone want to start a thread on various predators of bees? 

I find it kind of amazing.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Joseph:
I would never have thought they could either climb or jump that high, learn something new every day. 

Tom:

The Pheasant are the worst, but my dogs love the challenge, and since they discovered them they put their fear behind them and do a quick pass around the bees to see if they can get lucky. And the birds have seemed to have moved on to safer foraging.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*It's toads' world*

Joseph: 

They're not OUTSMARTING you are they?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Tom G. Laury said:


> Joseph:
> 
> They're not OUTSMARTING you are they?


Not anymore - I've convinced them to stay and help my garden grow. Five more volunteered for garden duty just tonight.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I was thinking it would be nice if they could learn to eat SHB.


I would buy 'em then. Can't seem to keep bees in anything but the blazing sun without dealing with the little black crunchies hereabouts.

Keith


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Joseph Clemens said:


> Not anymore - I've convinced them to stay and help my garden grow. Five more volunteered for garden duty just tonight.


Are you using them as a nitrogen source?

Keith


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Keith Benson said:


> Are you using them as a nitrogen source?
> 
> Keith


Yes, and they seem to be doing an exceptional job at it too.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

You should make a deal with the local toad lickers, 'You pick and leave the money under the door mat'.

Maybe you could get your truck fixed that way.


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## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

Wondering if those spikey things you put on building elements to keep birds from lighting could somehow help if you put them on the hive tops....


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Like this? --> http://www.pestcontrol-products.com/birdcontrol_spikes.htm

These are the ones I bought to keep the kids off my roof.


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