# CCD, Neonicitinoids, dissecting claims of pollinator collapse



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Really enjoy reading some actual science before breakfast.

(Though we'll probably learn this group, too, has some particular axe to grind - or propaganda goal.)

Thanks for posting it, OT.

Enj.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

enjambres said:


> Really enjoy reading some actual science before breakfast.
> 
> (Though we'll probably learn this group, too, has some particular axe to grind - or propaganda goal.)
> 
> ...


Environmental groups have been digging for dirt on Mr. Entine for quite some time, so far it's mostly innuendo. I don't know much about the guy but what he writes mostly rings true with my beekeeping experience.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

This from the article was of concern as I had always liked to believe that scientists are above reproach

"But the IUCN Task Force’s credibility has been challenged by a scandal now known as “Bee-Gate.” A report in the London Times and numerous other publication quoted a leaked memo from Task Force scientists conspiring to fabricate their studies as part of a “campaign” to have neonics banned".


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Having been a debater in high school, one of the primary rules is make your argument based on a source you can trust. The fact "Genetic Literacy Project" will not disclose their financial contributors makes me question it's neutrality in regard to the science. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but if this group is funded by folks who make money off touting the safety of neonics, clearly there is a bias.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> I had always liked to believe that scientists are above reproach
> 
> .


Yes, we would like to think so. But scientists are human, and humans have an agenda. Sometimes dedication to the agenda becomes so passionate that it clouds reason and leads folks to wander outside their principles. Being a scientist does not mean one is magically immune to such human failings.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Agreed Nordak, their site contains a lot of articles not just about pesticides which is only a very small portion of the topics they have articles about.

Presumably they are funded by somebody, probably with an agenda, who wants to get their view out there. The other thing I found annoying was the lack of references in the article I linked, the same tactic used by the green movement. 

The article I linked was definately a newspiece, rather than an authoritative paper. However in the similar but opposing type articles put out by the green movement one can almost always find half truths and outright lies, where the article I linked did not have anything false, or not that I could find anyway. Best I could tell the article is accurate, just "lite", and few references.

Seems like the Genetic Literacy Project has for whatever reason chosen a fairly "lite" style of reporting. But as the green movement has proved, this style does appeal to the masses. Even though it's annoying to those wanting to dig a bit deeper.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Nordak I did a little digging re their funding and found this. Cut and pasted from their site

*GLP Financial Transparency and Governance Statement*

The GLP is part of the Science Literacy Project (SLP), a 501(c)(3) nonprofit funded by grants from independent foundations and charities. The GLP accepts tax-deductible donations from individuals, but not from corporations. To the GLP’s knowledge, none of the foundations which has donated money to the GLP has financial ties to companies linked to human or agricultural genetics.

The SLP also includes the Genetic Expert News Service (GENeS), which is run with no editorial oversight from the GLP, and the soon-to-be-launched Epigenetics Literacy Project, which draws on approximately 40% of SLP’s overall budget. GLP has no formal affiliation with and receives no funding from any other institution, including the University of California-Davis (where executive director Jon Entine is a senior fellow (unpaid) at the Institute for Food and Agricultural Literacy).
The GENeS project has an office at the University of California’s Washington, DC campus but receives no financial support from the university, including for the office itself.

The GLP has no affiliation with George Mason University (and never had an affiliation with GMU). Entine was a research fellow (unpaid) at the university’s Center for Health & Risk Communication from 2011-2014. From 2011-2014, GLP operated as an independent entity housed within the Statistical Assessment Service (STATS), which provided accounting services to GLP. (STATS, which has dissolved, operated independently of GMU but its founder was a professor at the university). The GLP secured independent 501(c)(3) status in 2015.

GLP has an editorial advisory board, which helped guide the conception and launch of the project, and is finalizing its permanent board.

_2015-2016 Fiscal Year Donations to the Genetic Literacy Project
John Templeton Foundation, Gene-ius Project (for GLP): $92,225
John Templeton Foundation, Epigenetics Literacy Project, in development: $225,510
Searle Freedom Trust, GLP: $150,000
Winkler Family Foundation, GENeS Project, $100,000
Academics Review Charitable Association, (pass through support for University of California-Davis Biotech Literacy Bootcamp): $27,500
Individual donations: $7,078_


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I did some digging on Mr. Entine, and while good at his craft, he appears to be a media spin doctor for some big industry players, or at least the research points that way. If you look at his work on Huffington, the titles alone are kind of a big giveaway.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/jon-entine 
He doesn't have a degree in anything that remotely appears to be related to genetic sciences. His background is media. Very suspect indeed.

I think somewhere between the Mr. Entines and Greenpeaces of the world, the truth is there somewhere.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

> _2015-2016 Fiscal Year Donations to the Genetic Literacy Project
> John Templeton Foundation, Gene-ius Project (for GLP): $92,225
> John Templeton Foundation, Epigenetics Literacy Project, in development: $225,510
> Searle Freedom Trust, GLP: $150,000
> ...


From my understanding this is basically a front for a paper trail that leads back to some industry players. If I have time, I'll try to piece the puzzle together, but it's out there for anyone. I'm not saying there is ****ing evidence, but it sure looks suspicious.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes it's probably a given that the funding comes from someone with an agenda, same as the greens.

Here's how I see it. We have the green movement which pumps out emotive articles that contain massive dishonesty, generalisations, and lack of sensible references, but does appeal to a good number of people, even government decision makers can be duped. Then we have the other side often presented as scientific papers, which works well for the more intellectual but is lost on everybody else. Then at the other end from the green movement we have folks like Entines, using similar tactics to the greens, articles readable by the masses, just, far as I can tell anyway, without the dishonesty.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Oldtimer said:


> Here's how I see it. We have the green movement which pumps out emotive articles that contain massive dishonesty, generalisations, and lack of sensible references, but does appeal to a good number of people, even government decision makers. Then we have the other side often presented as scientific papers, which works well for the more intellectual but is lost on everybody else. Then at the other end from the green movement we have folks like Entines, using similar tactics to the greens, articles readable by the masses, just, far as I can tell anyway, without the dishonesty.


:thumbsup:

Omission is a powerful tool, regarding Entine. There are counter arguments to many of the arguments he makes. He omits these as it doesn't really fit into his "job description." My opinion, entirely, humbly presented.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

For the record, I am no green movement member. I am someone who looks at the science with caution, which I believe is a reasonable expectation for anyone concerned with the health of the environment and the folks they love. The jury is still out on neonics, as I haven't seen a "slam dunk" case for either side of the argument to make me convinced of it's safety or lack thereof. This is still very new science. Time will tell.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

The only thing I disagree with, is they state we have no pollinator issue as they regard honey bee colony counts on the rise, but I would say the opposite is true for a lot of the native pollinators that fill in niche rolls or can even make up a bulk of the pollination for certain crops and create better pollination through competition in others.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

JRG, that might be just a regional thing. I have been seeing lots more wild bees in my garden the last few years. Could be also a life cycle occurrence. Last couple years have also seen huge numbers of yellow jackets and wasps.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Nordak said:


> If I have time, I'll try to piece the puzzle together


How did that work out?


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

We have had more Yellow Jackets this year than I have ever seen. In years past they were rarely seen, not even at nuisance levels. We have had a drought and a lot of aphids creating a lot of honeydew. The YJ seem to be feeding on this, especially in the Hackberry trees. We also are having increasing levels of Bumble bees each year.

Alex


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

The american bee journal published an artical on a study on this last month.
gww


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey OT, just got home from Christmas day at my folks place. Most of what I've read is groundwork for suspicion. Here is one article from Tom Phillpott (Mother Jones). I'm guessing upon seeing Mother Jones, one could dismiss it as green washing, but he didn't make up anything about Entine that wasn't there. Phillpott certainly wants the reader to draw conclusions, which is always annoying. I'll link below, as I'm on my mobile and will lose this post if I go try to find it. It appears these two have a vendetta of sorts toward one another as it seems they've written about one another which makes sense seeing as how they are on opposite sides of the coin on this issue.

My gut feeling and common sense tell me that Entine isn't just a nice guy spreading the word on chemical safety to households across the U.S. so he can sleep better at night.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

http://m.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/02/atrazine-syngengta-tyrone-hayes-jon-entine


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

As far as native pollinators are concerned, my experiences are right there with AHudd and Arnie. That being said, I don't live near monocropping, so my guess is JRG's experience might a bit different than my own.


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