# Mite season is here!



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

d semple touched on it in another thread, not much of a dearth this summer, and probably not much of a mid season brood break. this may be a good (bad) test year for mine.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

It has been an exceptional and strange year. I had multiple hives that produced over two hundred pounds. Never before. Some were drawing comb through the end of June and still putting up honey in July. I have no idea what and have never seen it before. So...yeah.....a blessing and a curse all in one. 
Are you seeing spotty capped brood? I usually see it in a few hives this time of year....but this year it is nearly every one.
Good luck with yours.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Most have enormous populations. I'm leaving extra honey....as I don't see any way they'll make it without. Hives that I'd usually leave as double deeps are now double deep and a medium and a good number as triple deeps....and will likely go into winter that way. And, yeah...the mites have thrived too.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

beemandan said:


> For reasons I don't understand, this appears to be a major mite year in my yards. As you might imagine.....I'm doing something about it.


What are you going to use to treat?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

beemandan said:


> Are you seeing spotty capped brood? I usually see it in a few hives this time of year....but this year it is nearly every one.


to be honest dan the only ones i have been into lately are my starters from june and as expected no problems there. i still have a lot of honey to pull so i'll be going deep into those soon and let you know.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

snl said:


> What are you going to use to treat?


 I did an OAV treatment last winter and will likely do so again. But....to knock down the mites before they start winter brood....I'll be treating with apiguard.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I also have not seen a single instance of DWV. So for those who use that as an indicator....if you see it you probably have a mite problem....if you don't....you still may have a mite problem.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I have been doing checks for the last week and a half and finding at least 3/4 above the 3% threshold here. Even hives that have swarmed are high. After finding almost no mites last fall and this spring, it looks like a good year for the mites.


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## TuscaloosaBK (Apr 10, 2014)

Are they unwrapping them and causing the spotty pattern because they know there over populated or am I over thinking on this? I have a few hives like this as well.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

I treated the end of last year with OAV and had 1000s of mites dropped .
This year I tested late JULY with alcohol washes on 20 hives and no mites at all . I have most my hives brood nest on 4.9 cell I don't know if it make a difference but I had no mites as of 2weeks ago.
I'm going to test again in mid. SEPT.
I know it sounds to good to be true but it is what it is and I am very happy .
I have not seen a mite all year and I been digging in the drone brood and no mites. 
I have seen no PMS / DWV/ no crawlers and my brood for the most part is looking great hoping for a easy winter .
Hoping not to treat this year.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

TuscaloosaBK said:


> Are they unwrapping them and causing the spotty pattern because they know there over populated or am I over thinking on this?


I believe that you are over thinking this. If they were removing larvae.....I might consider it.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

GLOCK said:


> Hoping not to treat this year.


I have been following your posts. Fingers are crossed for ya.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Interesting about the one with the 45 day brood break.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beemandan said:


> The queen is laying a solid pattern but sometime after capping....a significant number of pupae are uncapped and removed.
> 
> It went over 45 days without a laying queen. The capped brood is solid. Mite counts are below treatment thresholds.
> 
> For reasons I don't understand, this appears to be a major mite year in my yards. As you might imagine.....I'm doing something about it.


Spotty capped brood pattern indicates hygienic behavior.

Low mite counts in a hive which went 45 days w/out a queen has low mite counts because it went 45 days w/out a queen.

If I understand correctly what I learned over the weekend, your major mite year may be due to how effective your last mite treatment was. Basically you cleaned out the hive and new, perhaps more virulent mites moved in and are having a field day.

If you look on my Facebook page and look for the NY Bee Wellness Workshop you will find a photograph of a chart which shows an example of annual bee population growth and decline in a hive and annual varroa mite population growth and decline in the same hive. We need to treat as soon as possible in the Spring when a certain threshold is apparent to knock down what mites are there which should bring the Varroa mite population curve down lower and maybe postpone its rise until later in the season, giving us a better chance of treating w/out supers on hives, yet early enough to be effective at having young undamaged bees in our hives going into Fall and Winter.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> We need to treat as soon as possible in the Spring when a certain threshold is apparent to knock down what mites are there which should bring the Varroa mite population curve down lower and maybe postpone its rise until later in the season, giving us a better chance of treating w/out supers on hives, yet early enough to be effective at having young undamaged bees in our hives going into Fall and Winter.


It does seem that certain conditions seem to work for or against the mites, be it weather or the bees reaction to weather conditions. We could hardly find any mites last or this spring. Less than 1% or 0 in all the hives checked so we didn't treat. I started checking again a week ago and I am mostly seeing levels of 3-12% with an overall average in around 4%. I think as mentioned earlier, the lack of dearth is significant.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How are you doing your sampling to come up w/ those percentages? Are you putting a measure amount of live bees gathered from capped brood comb into a jar and doing a powdered sugar test or an alcohol wash or and ether roll? Do you later on check to see how many bees you had in your sample?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

zhiv9 said:


> After finding almost no mites last fall and this spring, it looks like a good year for the mites.


So what will you use to treat if anything?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Spotty capped brood pattern indicates hygienic behavior.


That's my thinking.




sqkcrk said:


> Low mite counts in a hive which went 45 days w/out a queen has low mite counts because it went 45 days w/out a queen.


My thinking too....again.




sqkcrk said:


> If I understand correctly what I learned over the weekend, your major mite year may be due to how effective your last mite treatment was. Basically you cleaned out the hive and new, perhaps more virulent mites moved in and are having a field day.


I will have to look at your facebook page and try to understand this.




sqkcrk said:


> We need to treat as soon as possible in the Spring when a certain threshold is apparent to knock down what mites are there which should bring the Varroa mite population curve down lower and maybe postpone its rise until later in the season, giving us a better chance of treating w/out supers on hives, yet early enough to be effective at having young undamaged bees in our hives going into Fall and Winter.


I'm not sure about the early spring treatment. I usually treat in late summer/early fall after removing honey supers. That way the mite population should be low when they begin winter brood production. Last year I also did a midwinter OAV treatment.....which, I suppose, would substitute for a Spring treatment. And, of course, the hive dynamics will vary considerably depending on where on the continent or in the world your hives might be located.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Mark, I've seen the chart...or at least one like it, that shows the bee/mite population relationship. It is one of the reasons that I've recommended and perform late season mite treatments. 



sqkcrk said:


> If I understand correctly what I learned over the weekend, your major mite year may be due to how effective your last mite treatment was. Basically you cleaned out the hive and new, perhaps more virulent mites moved in and are having a field day.


I'm not sure that I understand this. If my treatment is very effective...there'll still be some mite survivors. Next season's mite population will be based largely on the genetics of those survivors. 
I don't understand the association of treatment survivor/more virulent mites. I figure that it is a crap shoot. Maybe more virulent mites survive the treatments in greater numbers...but it is equally possible that the less virulent ones do. 
And all of that presupposes the existence of more/less virulent mites. I know it has been speculated but I don't believe any research supports it.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> How are you doing your sampling to come up w/ those percentages? Are you putting a measure amount of live bees gathered from capped brood comb into a jar and doing a powdered sugar test or an alcohol wash or and ether roll? Do you later on check to see how many bees you had in your sample?


I am doing an alcohol wash with 300 bees from the center of the broodnest using one of the shaker jars. I shake it about 60 times. Swirl them around and tip the jar up. I do the last step twice and always end up more with the second swirl. I marked the jar at the 1/2 cup mark. I don't count the bees after.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

snl said:


> So what will you use to treat if anything?


I treated everything above the 3% threshold with MAQS. I will check the ones I didn't treat again in a few weeks. I will also likely do a final cleanup with OA just before wrapping them when they are broodless. I want to do a better job of evaluating the stock I have next season and I think starting them out as equally as possible mite-wise will help with that.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Dan - I've been seeing the same things - PMS typical spotty brood, very large (kinda I'll tempered) populations, lots of honey, mites easy to find in drone brood. I put the first round of apiguard on last week - later than I hoped, but as soon as I was able to make the time. At least nutrition isn't a problem this summer.

Good luck to all of us...


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

zhiv9 is following the excellent Ontario plan pretty well. you never kill all the mites you just try and control them. it is safe to say that all hives In north america have mites at this point, "I have no mites" is not a true statement " I have low mites" would be a good thing. with the sugar shake ,which I like, you have to double the results to equal the alcohol wash results. so it is good to clarify which test method you use to be clear.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

David LaFerney said:


> (kinda I'll tempered)


I can second that


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beemandan said:


> I'm not sure about the early spring treatment.


Here's my way of looking at treating colonies for mites in Spring. Just for argument's sake, let's say that what you use to treat w/ will kill 90% of all of your adult mites, not inside brood cells. If you have one hundred mites in May, how many mites will you have 4 brood cycles later, if each mite replaces herself w/ an average of two daughters and then dies. (some say that a mite can actually go a cpl of brood cycles, but I am trying to keep this simple for my own sake.) Four brood cycles later you will have about 1600 adult mites, if I did my math correctly.

So, if you can knock that 100 mites down to 10 mites in April or May, 4 brood cycles later you will have 160 adult mites, right? And then you may not need to do a treatment as soon as your honey supers come off. You could wait until most of the capped brood is gone and do an OA dribble. Not that I am suggesting anything off label, just if you lived in Ontario, Canada.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

zhiv9 said:


> I am doing an alcohol wash with 300 bees from the center of the broodnest using one of the shaker jars. I shake it about 60 times. Swirl them around and tip the jar up. I do the last step twice and always end up more with the second swirl. I marked the jar at the 1/2 cup mark. I don't count the bees after.


You have a really great resource in your OBA Tech Transfer Program. Les Eccles and Melanie Kempers are really good instructors.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

:shhhh:I like the excellent Ontario plan so much that I am getting some oxalic acid ready to dribble in November so I can be ready to go when and if our friends in Washington change their minds. of course they always know best and make timely choices.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> You have a really great resource in your OBA Tech Transfer Program. Les Eccles and Melanie Kempers are really good instructors.


I made the time to take their queen rearing course this spring and was glad I did. A good balance of classroom and hands-on.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> So, if you can knock that 100 mites down to 10 mites in April or May


By April...practically every hive here has at least one extracting super on. Proof positive that beekeeping is local. I understand your early Spring treatment theory but haven't come up with a way to do an effective early Spring treatment that won't overlap nectar flows. I think I'll keep my current strategy. I've gotten along pretty well with a Fall treatment only....and now have added the midwinter OAV....so...it ain't perfect but looks like it's working.


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## estreya (Apr 20, 2014)

Can someone speak a bit about the OA dribble mentioned in this thread? Is this considered to be one of the more "minimal" chemical interventions?


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

search and study Ontario beekeepers association. oxalic acid is not approved for the usa but it is legal to sell stuff to do it. we can discuss it but are not supposed to recommend it. this seems real clever to me being just a few minutes drive from Ontario. almost close enough for Canadian drones..hmmm.?


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

estreya said:


> Can someone speak a bit about the OA dribble mentioned in this thread? Is this considered to be one of the more "minimal" chemical interventions?


In case you..ahem...move across the border or something:

http://www.ontariobee.com/sites/ontariobee.com/files/document/oxalic-acid-protocol.pdf

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Oxalic acid vapor knocks the heck out of the mites! Three examples showing 24 hour mite drop immediatly after a single treatment in the Fall of 2013:


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

mathesonequip said:


> search and study Ontario beekeepers association. oxalic acid is not approved for the usa but it is legal to sell stuff to do it. we can discuss it but are not supposed to recommend it. this seems real clever to me being just a few minutes drive from Ontario. almost close enough for Canadian drones..hmmm.?


OA is perfectly legal in the US. You can use wood bleach to bleach the insides of your wooden Hives anytime you want to.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

thanx for reminding me of the wood bleach loophole, I had forgotten it.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

shinbone said:


> Oxalic acid vapor knocks the heck out of the mites! Three examples showing 24 hour mite drop immediatly after a single treatment in the Fall of 2013:


What did your drops look like just prior to the OA?


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

AstroBee said:


> What did your drops look like just prior to the OA?


Mine where between 50 and 150 depending on the hive. The first 3 days following the treatment were the huge drops. The most coming on the second day and I would guess somewhere north of 2000... About 6 days out it stablizes so I started with my second treatments at 7 day intervals. Each treatment results in smaller drops, but the significant reduction for me didn't happen until the 4th treatment. So I think 3 treatments 7 days apart, really knocks the stuffing out of them. After that, you're getting diminishing returns for your efforts. But it's not hard and it's cheap, so I've gone as many as 5 weekly treatments.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

After fogging with FGMO till JULY last year I tested my hives with alcohol washes and all had high mite loads so I switched to OAV and my mite drops looked like this .

I think OAV is all ya need to keep VARROA in check .
I did alcohol washes on most my hives the 3d week of JULY of this year and had no mites out of around 20 hives.
So I say Oxalic Acid Vaporing is:thumbsup:


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Glock, thanks for all you're trials, pictures and posting. I've been following along with you and your posts for the past two seasons and they have been very helpful. :applause:


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

AstroBee said:


> What did your drops look like just prior to the OA?


Unfortunately, I do not have good mite numbers for before the OAV treatment. I had tried to do powder sugar rolls, but I never felt the numbers were reliable.

My plan was to do 1 OAV treatment, and if I saw a lot of mites drop relative to a visual estimate of the cluster size, then complete the recommended course of 3 treatements 1 week apart, which is what I ended up doing.

This year, those treated hives were showing about a 5-mite drop in 24 hours in mid-June. This done by collecting mites over 4 days and then averaging. I know this method isn't super accurate because you don't get a firm ratio of mites per bees. However, by looking at the _density_ of mites on the sticky board (rather than the total number) you get a good feel for the mite infestation level in the hive. I am not saying this is perfect, but for a hobbyist like myself where economics is not my primary motivation, this is good enough to make a decision on whether to treat. 

And, again, if I do an OAV application and don't see many mites drop, then I would stop there. Almost like using the first OAV application as a mite drop measurement in-and-of itself.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

to compare a sugar roll to an alcohol wash you double the number. an ether shake and alcohol one give the same results. any of these tests if properly done is more accurate than a sticky board. the sticky board is a good indicator but it does not adjust for population or other conditions. do the tests, more than once if you question the results, for you to get a most accurate result, the test bees should come from the brood area. the trickey part is to be sure and not get the queen. look up the procedure at nybeewellness.org or Ontario bee association.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

"_To compare a sugar roll to an alcohol wash you double the number._"

That is good to know. Thanks.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

the part of being sure not to kill the queen makes the sugar roll my own favorite. the profesonals like the alcohol wash because it is fast. if you double the sugar counts the results are the same. 2 real experienced Ontario bee assoc. technicians working together, have been known to sample 250 hives before lunchtime. they taught me the finer points.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

shinbone said:


> Unfortunately, I do not have good mite numbers for before the OAV treatment. I had tried to do powder sugar rolls, but I never felt the numbers were reliable.
> 
> My plan was to do 1 OAV treatment, and if I saw a lot of mites drop relative to a visual estimate of the cluster size, then complete the recommended course of 3 treatements 1 week apart, which is what I ended up doing.
> 
> ...



I'm with shinbone, this year I'm going to treat, and then dropcount. If i get a board full, I'll treat again and so on till I don't get a board full. I do have 4 TF hives I'm going to have to drop count on.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

It is easier and faster to do an OAV application than to do a sugar roll or alcohol wash. Faster, estimates mite numbers, kills a whole bunch of the blood suckers while your at it, and, in the case of an alcohol wash less harm to the hive. For a hobbyist who treats, what's not to like?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

what equipment are you guys using for the OAV treatments. Is there a link you can provide?


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

AstroBee said:


> what equipment are you guys using for the OAV treatments. Is there a link you can provide?


I use two, the better one of the two is the one listed in SNL's post.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

beemandan said:


> Are you seeing spotty capped brood?


got into three of mine today dan and harvested some honey. for some reason this year they didn't get it all capped on the spring flow, but there's been enough dribbling in over the summer to let them finish a lot of it off.

what i found was nice looking solid capped brood halfway into the first super above my single deep in all three, just on a couple of frames, and they are backfilling those as the brood is emerging. i was prepared to do an alcohol wash if i found spotty brood but decided not to after everything looked good.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

squarepeg said:


> i was prepared to do an alcohol wash if i found spotty brood but decided not to after everything looked good.


Glad it looked good.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

squarepeg said:


> what i found was nice looking solid capped brood halfway into the first super above my single deep in all three, just on a couple of frames, and they are backfilling those as the brood is emerging.


square, what is your overwintering configuration? a deep and a medium? Do you use an excluder?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

GLOCK said:


> I treated the end of last year with OAV and had 1000s of mites dropped .
> This year I tested late JULY with alcohol washes on 20 hives and no mites at all . I have most my hives brood nest on 4.9 cell I don't know if it make a difference but I had no mites as of 2weeks ago.
> I'm going to test again in mid. SEPT.
> I know it sounds to good to be true but it is what it is and I am very happy .
> ...


Hey Glock, this sounds very promising. 

As a check on your alcohol wash results I wonder if you might be willing to try an OAV on just 1 hive and see what your mite count looks like. Just out of curiosity.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Hey Glock, this sounds very promising.
> 
> As a check on your alcohol wash results I wonder if you might be willing to try an OAV on just 1 hive and see what your mite count looks like. Just out of curiosity.


A very interesting suggestion. I second the request.

Also, GLOCK, it would be great if you could refresh our memories on your treatment protocol.

TIA!


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

shinbone said:


> It is easier and faster to do an OAV application than to do a sugar roll or alcohol wash. Faster, estimates mite numbers, kills a whole bunch of the blood suckers while your at it, and, in the case of an alcohol wash less harm to the hive. For a hobbyist who treats, what's not to like?


The ease tends to make you a bit lazy about testing. I have some more to check and treat if needed now that I have honey virtually all extracted. Will try to do natural fall on sticky board plus sugar or alcohol shake and then an OA vaporization. Culled a whole bunch of drone cells from a hive yesterday and didnt find a mite so I am feeling good about mites. Sounds a bit like famous last words, doesn't it?


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Did a sugar roll on one of my hives today that should have had lower mite levels due to brood breaks. The VSH queen hive had about a 6 % infestation rate. Needless to say, all hives in the yard got a single MAQS today. I'll follow-up with testing in a couple of weeks and will be ready to vaporize as we head into the winter. It's been too nice of a year here to lose the bees to mites. I won't let it happen.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

zhiv9 said:


> square, what is your overwintering configuration? a deep and a medium? Do you use an excluder?


yes, the most common overwintering configuration around here is a deep and a medium, and that's what i have done all except for last winter. i don't use an excluder.

what i notice with my colonies is that they don't really start using the honey in the medium until late february when brooding starts up in earnest. they mix fresh nectar and pollen with the overwintered honey and expand the broodnest up from the deep into the medium.

the winter of 2012 was unusual in that we had a warm february followed by a cold march. brooding started up early and was then shut down by the cold snap. as a result the honey got pretty thin in the supers and i had to move some honey frames around to help out the light hives. just when i thought i was going to have to put some feed out the weather broke and the flow started.

last winter i decided to try leaving two mediums of honey to see if it the bees would build up faster and stronger using the extra honey. as it turned out it really didn't make much difference and most of the extra honey i left got extracted this spring.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

beemandan said:


> Glad it looked good.


thanks dan. several of mine are going into the second and third winter now so i've got my fingers crossed.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

squarepeg said:


> yes, the most common overwintering configuration around here is a deep and a medium, and that's what i have done all except for last winter. i don't use an excluder.


Thanks, I have noticed that my singles often leave a half moon shape empty area in the super just above the excluder. It makes me wonder if a deep and a medium or two mediums is a better size for brood.


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