# Pros and cons of double brood box



## Mountaineerfan (Jul 30, 2005)

Hi gang!
New to beekeeping, and fixin' to install my first package this Saturday. I am setting up two hives, and have only one deep brood box for each hive. I know some folks put two in, and was wondering what the pros and cons of that would be. Why do you do it? Why don't you do it? I'm in the Atlanta area, so any info specific to my region would be great.
Thanks!
Steve


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

I started my beekeeping with swarms. I noticed that if I have 4 lbs swarm, it is able to draw up one langstroth box of foundations during one week. - After 2 months that hive is so big that it forages honey normally.

If I had two swarms which weighed together 8 lbs it occupyed 2 boxes. That hive was able to gather at once and got honey 40 lbs and one box was full of brood.

If you have 3 lbs package of bees, that hive is really small and slow to develope. It is very difficult to get so big that it take care of itself and get honey in same summer. It depens how long is you summer.

But I prefer to put together 3+3 lbs bees. It is worth doing.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I run all mediums now, but back when I ran deeps and shallows, if I had a queen who couldn't more than fill one deep brood box with brood, I'd get a new queen.







Without two brood boxes a good queen doesn't have enough room to lay. But then I run all the same size and no excluder so she uses what she wants.

In any region a queen needs enough room to lay.

As far as overwintering, one deep might work where you are, I don't know.


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## Jim Williamson (Feb 16, 2006)

Mountaineerfan, I'm not too far from you. I run two-deeps per hive, year round. A lot of local folks have told me I'm leaving too much honey for the bees, but I haven't had a colony starve over the winter and, with a little manipulation of frames to keep the brood nest open, the queens have plenty of room to lay. 

I don't treat with any chemicals, so if there seems to be excess honey in the top deep, I don't mind taking some for extraction. But, mostly I leave the deeps for the bees and anything above that is fair game.

Check into Michael's posts singing the praises of all medium supers. It makes a lot of sense. I'm considering doing that with the next increase.

Good luck with your new bees. If you haven't already, join the Georgia Beekeepers Association. Also UGA puts on a great clinic up at Young Harris College in May.

http://www.gabeekeeping.com/

http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/bee_institute/Brochure-06.pdf


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Check into Michael's posts singing the praises of all medium supers. It makes a lot of sense. 

It also save you making a decision on this. The bees can have what they use. It's all the same size.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

I assume if you're a new beekeeper that you're installing packages onto foundation. I;m also assuming it's a three pound package.

If so, I would start with one hive body and wait until they get a good start on drawing comb before adding a second.

Here in the north country, I would feed new packages a gallon or two of 1:1 syrup to get them going.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

To answer your original question, you should install your package in one box only. When 7 to 9 frames are drawn out and filled, add another. Continue this way until your top box is full of honey only, and fully capped. That way you know the queen has used all the space she wants and the top box is excess. By the time that happens, if you stay with us here on the forum, you will know how many to leave and how many to harvest.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

I am in northern Alabama and I use 2 deeps. (Every year, I think I'll go to mediums but forget to. After lugging 2 filled deeps around today, I think I'm interested in the 8-frame mediums that Michael uses. I'm not his age yet, but will be, and would like to have as strong a back as he by then.)

Some consider a single deep as a "nuc." Where you and I are, we can use it as a whole hive for wintering, but I agree with all above, that hives winter better with 2 deeps. (By this I mean, feel free to make a split into a deep without stress, but Do let it build to 2 deeps before considering it finished.) Some in our areas use a deep and a medium. But with all the same size, you have more freedom. With 2 deeps- worth of hive, you can checkerboard when necessary.

I'm with Jim. Without chemicals, I can easily pull frames from anywhere and extract. In fact, by January, I realized that even my double-deep hives had more honey than they needed and was able to extract 3 gallons. The empty frames where then used for checkerboarding. Way cool.

Waya


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

Hey Steve,

I'm a former Alpharettian..I ran for the hills several years ago after they built that new mall. I'm up in the mountains of NC now. The 8 frame is the way to go and do like everyone says, start with one box, then as it gets nearly full, add another. 2 deeps (I use the 8 frame mediums - they are great!!) is really necessary for your area as well, it will keep your bees from starving in the winter. Like MB, it gives the bees more room to make broood. I packaged my first hive last year and left 2 mediums on for winter...the bees did great!!

Just curious...do they let you do beekeeping in Alpharetta these days?? I'm glad to hear someone is, I think it's wonderful. Take care and welcome to the world of bees - this forum is better than bee school!!

[ April 13, 2006, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Cyndi ]


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## Jim Williamson (Feb 16, 2006)

Sorry. Looking back on my post, I realize I missed an important point. You grow into two deeps. If installing a 3-lbs package, I would do so in a 5-frame deep nucleus. As the colony grew, I would progress to a 10-frame deep with follower boards, and add frames as needed.

Originally, I thought the question was the pros and cons of double brood box as the topic title indicated.


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## Mountaineerfan (Jul 30, 2005)

Thanks everyone!
Yes, we can do beekeeping in Alpharetta!
The reason for my posting was: I ordered a beginner's kit this winter, and was given some equipment from a friend who had given up beekeeping. Both sets of equipment came with one deep and a medium. While lurking on this board for the past 9 months, I've seen folks talking about using 2 deeps and wanted to know why some did and some did not use them. I guess that if I want my bees to survive the winter and not have to purchase a package next year, I should start saving up for another couple of deeps with frames and foundation (which, btw, is black Pierco).
Thanks again for your help! My two 3# packages arrive tomorrow!!!
Steve


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Many people in the south use a deep and a shallow or a deep and a medium to winter. But then you have the problem of brood on two different sized frames and no interchanability. But it seems to be the common method in a lot of the South.


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## Zarka (Jan 14, 2006)

I was just going to ask this question today, so thanks for starting the thread. It is spurring more questions in my mind:

I gather from the above posts that the reason for putting more brood boxes is to prevent swarming, not to get more bees and therefore more honey, correct? or is it both of these reasons?

I have been using only one brood box and leave all my supers above the excluder year round so the bees can put honey up there whenever there's nectar (I'm in So. CA, so there's a lot of citrus and other late fall/winter blooming stuff)

I figured if you force the brood to be in only one box the bees will be forced to put honey in the supers.
BUT, am I actually getting less honey per hive due to this practice?

Am I also running a greater risk of swarming in Spring?

I keep the supers on the hive year round so I don't have to store them. I don't see why I should take them off in the winter, even though they haven't been drawing much comb up there. What's the reason for taking supers off the hive in the winter? I haven't had a problem leaving them there the last 3 years.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I gather from the above posts that the reason for putting more brood boxes is to prevent swarming, not to get more bees and therefore more honey, correct? or is it both of these reasons?

Both.

>I have been using only one brood box and leave all my supers above the excluder year round so the bees can put honey up there whenever there's nectar (I'm in So. CA, so there's a lot of citrus and other late fall/winter blooming stuff)

That might work in CA. Here I'd end up with a dead queen.

>I figured if you force the brood to be in only one box the bees will be forced to put honey in the supers.

What stops them from putting the honey int he brood box?

>BUT, am I actually getting less honey per hive due to this practice?

Yes.

>Am I also running a greater risk of swarming in Spring?

Yes.

>I keep the supers on the hive year round so I don't have to store them. I don't see why I should take them off in the winter, even though they haven't been drawing much comb up there. What's the reason for taking supers off the hive in the winter?

It's a lot of overhead for the heat to dissapate in. My bees have to keep the cluster warm in -20 and sometimes -30 F temps.

>I haven't had a problem leaving them there the last 3 years.

Your bees probably don't have really cold weather to contend with.


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