# Table saw recommendations



## jrbbees

jim lyon said:


> need something fairly rugged, with a fairly large table


1. There are mid range stuff at both HD and Lowes. 
2. The issue becomes 'large table' that is primarly going to be with the higher end stuff.
3. 'Large table' and small 'storage space' uuuuuhhhhhhh!


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## fish_stix

The Delta Contractor's Saw and others similar, Grizzly etc., works good at a decent price and can use Dado blades. Any large table saw will work, just make sure it will take Dadoes. You can use it without the table extensions for normal work or install them for cutting wide stuff like plywood. For storage concerns buy or build a dolly or get the wheels for it to permanently reside on. I have a really big cabinet saw that was formerly a high school shop saw, and weighs at least 500 lbs. I made a dolly and can push the saw out on my driveway to work. A good fence is another must have; fasten a 2x4 to the blade side of the fence for all operations, but especially for dadoing as you won't be using the full width of the dado blade for beehives with the exception of handles. Easiest for me is to just install the whole dado set and adjust the fence for the right width cut. Craig's List is a good start!


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## Solomon Parker

Second the dadoes. There are several saws about in the $5-600 range that take dadoes, at the big three home improvement type stores. I was recently shopping for just such a saw.

I ended up going for an old used Craftsman I found on Craigslist. None of the snazzy features, but did include full cast iron table and wings.


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## wheeler88

Buy a good quality one. I bought a cheap Craftsmen a few years ago before I got back into bees and that was a mistake. I am also looking for a better saw, only advice I can give is that you get what you pay for..........


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## deknow

...I saw a nice Porter cable at Lowes for 5 or 600.
I have a.tiny 8" craftsman direct drive, but have my father in laws old.giant craftsman coming, and I have a nice.radial arm saw.that I do a.lot on.
also just got a shopsmith that I'm starting to play with...a fine decor saw, but not recommended. As a.primates table saw.
deknow


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## pascopol

I have a Craftsman $200 Craftsman table saw and I am satisfied. Table is large enough. As for dado blades it is such a pain to change the blades on table saw, that I plan to buy a radial saw and do dado and crosscuts using radial and rip only using table saw.

I am not running any long series so it is a blessing and time saver having both radial and table saws.

I also have a router, did not learn how to use it yet, but I will eventually get ambitious when spring build up will force me to make more hives. LOL


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## Barry

Jim, don't necessarily buy a saw based on table size. All tables are too small in my opinion. I always build extension tables for table saws. If you need to have easy storage, might not be an option.


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## jim lyon

Just shopped at the big box stores this past week-end and was only luke warm on what I saw. Probably dont really make what I want, a nice quality saw with a large table, enough weight to be stable and a good fence but not too much of a pain to stow away the 95% of the year it isnt in use. Some type of stowable extensions like fish stix and barry are talking about is something I should definitely consider.


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## Barry

You ought to be able to find a used Rockwell contractors saw for a good price. New, they're around $600. You can get locking casters for it as well. Great solid saw.

Sorry, I had the wrong link.


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## Daniel Y

Jim, You are exactly right on the jump from junk to fairly expensive.
Take a look at Grizzly.com they have a range from around $400 all the way up to $12,000 without any gaps.
My experience is that you cross the line into the higher quality saws at around the $700 range. Below that the saw is simply going to be lacking in certain features. Not all those features are going to matter to you depending on what type of work you do. I have a Craftsman that is just fine for basic cutting that I woudl sell in a heartbeat for $300. then put that toward this.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0715P

That saw is likely to be over the line for what you want though.


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## Tom G. Laury

Jim check out the Delta Unisaw. 220 1ph. Last I looked they ran about $1200. Be sure to get a power feed. This is an industrial quality tool.


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## pascopol

Daniel Y said:


> Take a look at Grizzly.com they have a range from around $400 all the way up to
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0715P


Very nice saw indeed, if you get one like this pay attention to:

"Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V, single-phase, prewired to 220V" (Translation motor will be underpowered and subject to overheating/tripping fuses at 110V)

Further confirmation of above concern:

Quote: "NOTICE: 110V operation requires part #T23999 circuit breaker and wiring procedures that must be completed by an electrician or other qualified service personnel. See Owner’s Manual for details. "

Translation : this unit requires dedicated 110V circuit installed by "qualified electrician".

Well I feel "qualified" enough to warn you do not want to run induction (AC) motor drawing 16 Amps at 110V from household outlet, even "dedicated" household outlet.

I'd only run this baby ONLY from 240V outlet as it was designed for, however if they marketed it as 240V only there would be a limited market for it.

Speaking from 10 years experience with sales/installation of 240/110 pumps and an Associate Degree in electronics.
I,ve seen many 1.5HP pumps "prewired" to 240V and run at 110V prematurely fail due to voltage drop and overheating.

Also if you run this particular saw at 110V it may feel underpowered and rapidly bowing down from the possible voltage drop on the line or if you push it too hard creating more safety hazard than less powerful (1HP) saw run at 110 voltage.

This is not to knock off this saw , just give it the voltage it needs to operate properly. 

240V

Just like your kitchen range of water heater.


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## 37 V8

Jim, I just bought a Bosch refurbished 10" table saw with stand from Bosch.CPO that works very well. Looks like a brand new saw. It came with a decent blade included, which was surprising. I have a delta 10" contractor's table saw in the basement, but wanted something that I could use outside, rugged and portable and which stored in the garage without taking up a lot of space. This saw has a decent fence, blade was square to the fence and to the miter gauge slot in the table. The saw also has a pretty clever sliding extension for the right side of the table, and a similar table extension is an option for the left side of the table. Out of the box, it was ready to go. The stand is well designed, one end with wheels, very sturdy and does not walk around during use. The only thing it lacks is a locking feature on the wheel for the blade height adjustment, which most of the similar saws would have, but this wasn't a big deal for me. The base of the table saw itself is heavy duty plastic, but is solid. And if you want to use the saw without the stand or store/transport it separately, just unscrew 4 bolts to remove the saw from the stand. If you don't need the stand, the saw itself is $399.00 right now. Also, it has a pretty good blade guard, easier to use than the one on my older Delta saw. I'm not building furniture, but I can heartily recommend either one of these two 10" table saws. Just depends on how you plan to use it. Hope this helps. Bryan


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## gregstahlman

bought a new Delta 36-L552 unisaw last last. saw is 5HP and has a big table extension. even if you dont need the extension it is still an amazing saw and will last for many years. hate to think about trying to save a penny and regret getting a mediocre saw. it was time for an upgrade from the saws we were using. not quite sure but i believe our old unisaws were from the late 40's or so. motor has never had any work done to it. cant even imagine how many boxes, frames, and pallets that saw has cut in it's lifetime. just dont make them like they use to. one thing i do recommend is if you get a cabinet saw, BUY the mobile base for moving it. makes life so much easier lol


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## mythomane

I know Delta has mostly gone Chinese so I did some cursory looking into the unisaw. According to a guy on Amazon via Popular Woodworking it is mostly manufactured in America. Wow. I couldn't believe it. Sounds like a machine.


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## fish_stix

To reply to pascopols thread; 220 volts is easy! Make an extension (heavy wire, 10 gauge or better) that will plug into the wife's clothes dryer outlet. My extension cord is 25' and the saw cord is about 10' so I can get well out onto the driveway for working. No dust in the garage, and no wife in the garage either, while I'm working!


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## deknow

Since we are talking about using the saw outside.....

I was doing the same thing...sawing outside in order to minimize the mess in the house. Small 8" saw with extension wings. I clamped it to a lightweight folding work table (for safety, haha) and proceded to rip some 2x4s that were a little long for comfort.....brand new good blade.

Halfway through the cut, freak wind gusts....I was trying to finish the cut when the wind got under the wings and lifted the saw, table and all.

In any case, I essentially "threw" the saw and jumped backwards...it landed upsided down (on the new blade of course..."butter side down").

It wasn't windy out, and it never occured to me that I wasn't being safe. Always expect the unexpected.

deknow


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## mythomane

fish_stix said:


> 220 volts is easy! Make an extension (heavy wire, 10 gauge or better) that will plug into the wife's clothes dryer outlet....


oh, boy...there is a reason that you can't buy those in stores.


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## divemaster1963

look at your local Paw shops. with the housing market at a dead stop. builders are pawning their disposable equipment.IE; table saws, portable air compressors, and air nailers. they are normally top sheilf stuff. ( just remember that the price on the ticket is the fair retail *NOT* what you would give them for it.)


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## odfrank

I am happy with my 30 year old Rockwell and my much newer Delta. I see a lot of Deltas for sale on Craigslist here.


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## gregstahlman

i did alot of research before i bought the delta. came across sooo many bad reviews. things such as parts missing, table wing extension didnt line up or had a cup to them. in all honesty i assembled the saw myself and am very pleased with how it works. only thing i dont like is that i had some complications getting a throat plate for a dado head. they sent me the wrong part twice. saw is pricey but worth it. for years i wanted a saw with a big extionship to make working plywood easier. 
so awesome having a sawdust collection built in also


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## Daniel Y

pascopol said:


> Very nice saw indeed, if you get one like this pay attention to:


Pascopol, Nice job of pointing out some of the details of how the table saw selection can be complicated. This saw is not really something the casual user would want to look at. Sadly the alternatives have some serious shortcomings for the most part. I realize my preferences are skewed toward the better quality 220 requirement and higher price being justified. For many that simply is not going to be true. they want a good $400 machine. They are hard to find.
Thanks for taking the time to lay out a little more of the issues in the maze.


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## jim lyon

I was actually thinking of spending more like $1000. The Grizzly kind of got my attention......that is until Tom and Greg got me thinking Delta. Wow Greg you guys really went high end, not sure I can quite justify that unless I find a buy on a used one. Have to do some more research on dealers and freight costs. thanks all for the input.


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## Barry

Jim, will this be used for making woodenware? If so, The Grizzly is simply overkill. You're not making fine furniture here. Unless you're planning to go into production as a business, you will be hard pressed to out use a Rockwell/Delta contractor saw, at least the older ones. Contractors use their saws day in and day out.


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## Mr. C

It's by no means the best saw out there, but for convenience and ease of storage I've been using a Rigid from home depot. 
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
It has done the trick for me so far. I've been remodeling the house and adding an addition and it has held up well to all of that and the mobility has been a Godsend. All the parts I use pretty much store on the cart so I'm less prone to lose things when I'm moving around. I started building some boxes and frames on it recently and it has done alright at that as well. My only beef so far has been that it has a composit top, which though it works well and is obviously lighter I can't use my magnetic stops on. Some day I plan to get a floor model for the shop in the barn, but really I haven't been able to justify the expense because the cheaper one has done all I've asked. I will note that blade change is a snap, but it just barely will hold a 3/4inch Dado on the arbor. Of course going larger than that would probably overwork the saw. I also have a nice dual bevel sliding miter saw that takes some of the workload of my tablesaw.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

I went through the a similar thing about a year ago. My little saw was not cutting it but I did not have the room or the dough for a big saw. I kinda went down the middle and got a used craftsman cast iron contractors saw thats about 30 years old. Its been an awesome machine. I wish they made something like this still. Nothing in the big box stores is going to really fit the bill...its all cheap. 
If you want to get a big table...Biesemeyer Fence all the way. A lot of guys take an old craftsman and take the wings, legs, etc off and mount a Biesemeyer on it. Then you can make a rolling cart for it all to set on. 50" rip capacity. Pretty much the optimal setup. 
Mike


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## jim lyon

Barry said:


> Jim, will this be used for making woodenware? If so, The Grizzly is simply overkill.


Perhaps you are right. Just looking for something rugged enough to stand up to some abuse and can stay accurate without having to constantly use a square to insure that your blade won't bind in the middle of a cut. Fine furniture making? Nope that wouldnt be me.


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## fish_stix

Mythomane; you can buy those (extension cords) in stores, just not in your big box stores. We use them all the time in the construction business and guess what? We get inspected by OSHA on a regular basis and they have found no fault with them. If you have 220 volt tools on a job site and the power pole is 75-100 feet away how do you suppose you get power to where you need it?  BTW, explain the difference to me of a 30' power cord attached to a 220 v. motor and an extension cord of the same size to feed that motor. And, yes I'm well familiar with the effect of "length" and conductor size on a power source.


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## Daniel Y

I went to my "Go To" group when it comes to the latest in the know about shop equipment.
for a small saw (easy to store) but accurate and strong this is the first recommendation.
http://benchmark.20m.com/reviews/RyobiBt3100/RyobiBt3100Review.html

Problem is it is not longer available from Ryobi. you will have to find one used.
IT was mentioned that Seas now makes a copy of it but the model number was not given for the Craftsman version.

Another Craftsman model that was recommended was this.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921833000P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5

Okay that was my shot at finding the best bang for your buck and still keep it semi storable.

Keep in mind you can get rolling stands for the larger saws to help in the keeping it out of the way issue.

That last one looks a lot like what I own. It has problems but only minor irritating ones. A fence that is not all that accurate, the blade insert is flakey, Table top is to small for me but anything less than 4X8 will be and a miter gauge slot that is not standard.


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## rwurster

I almost bought the saw mr. c showed a link to, but instead bought http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 which I am completely grateful for. Takes 6" dado packs and I had to make the throat plates but other than that is an excellent saw.


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## Riskybizz

Check out the Jet JPS-30. Great features/great price. Dados on table saws are real finger killers unless you know what your doing, and your setting up to make furniture. Pain in the butt setting them up. For making beekeeping equipment buy a good router and bench, thats really all you need. Then your set up to knock stuff out.


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## mythomane

fish_stix said:


> Mythomane; you can buy those (extension cords) in stores, just not in your big box stores. We use them all the time in the construction business...


I would like to know where you get these 100 foot 220v power extensions. Please post a link/info. I will buy one just in case I decide to build a house in Florida. Inspectors are mostly failed contractors and its a low bar to begin with. Speaking as a contractor, I have never used 220v from a line like that. The power source is usually from a generator, which is usually what you have when you are building anything fresh, and from which you can get 220 easily. That being said I have had a hand in building hundreds of homes and we never had 220 on site. I do not know any contractor that uses 220 equipment. Cabinet makers, ok, but not men in the field. And cabinet makers do not need or use cords like that. It is just not portable or necessary. I have seen 10k sqft. Mcmansions go up with Ryobi equipment and a crew from Alcatraz. The difference in the line is that it is easily cut/tripped over/exposed etc. I myself could handle it, but is it up to code? Probably not. Then again, maybe things are different in Florida. I worked on a few scrapers there and things were generally out of hand. But again, things are virtually always out of hand on a building site. Please post a link for the cords as it will save me starting up my generator.


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## Barry

Home Depot 6/3
Home Depot 6/4


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## divemaster1963

I was wondering what everyone thinks of the shopsmith 5 in one? I have a chance to get a verygood used one. for a song(<100.00) I checked it out every thing is there. bearings tight. spindle true. router plane and table flat and clean.

john


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## deknow

I picked one up last week. I haven't had a chance to put it through its paces yet, but I think it is weakest as a table saw...the other functions don't seem to suffer for being a combo tool. I would not want one as my only tablesaw.
the speed control mechanism is clever. Very well built...better than one would expect for a.combo tool.
Deknow


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## tedw200

At the shop I use heavy duty equipment. at home I use a RIGID 10" direct drive table saw,
it tilts the right way, has a great locking fence, 110 volt. miter it comes with is great.
its the middle of the road on the light side. It folds for storage and is quite powerful for 
the price of 499.00 at H.D. 
If you use a good carbide blade, you will love this great table saw.


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## Daniel Y

Mythomane, I just did a search for those cords but am not coming up with anything from "Common" sources. I do know for a fact they exist. They will give you a hernia trying to lug one around though. they even come in dryer outlet or range outlet configurations (there is a difference in the outlets).

I work for a University and having 220 power is as common as 110. and they go up from there with there power supplies. I see the 220 v cords all over the place. They are not intended for permanent power any more than any other cord. but they do exist and are used on any outlet that has 220 v. 

In fact next time you are in the extension cord isle look for the replacement cord ends you will find one style that has one of the prongs sideways. That is a 220v cord end for a regular size extension cord. walk around in some buildings and you will see outlets that allow a regular plug end or one of these sideways ones to fit. plug in a wayside pronged cord and you are hooked up to 220 volts. It is not common for most people to ever need that so most don't even know about it. Not a lot of people own much that requires 220 volts to operate.


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## mythomane

Daniel Y;730933
I work for a University and having 220 power is as common as 110.[/QUOTE said:


> I don't doubt they have power like that at universities. Or factories or such. They have R&D and EXPERIMENTS to conduct. I bet the OSHA guy is not coming around checking the molecular accelerator every day, though. If they did nothing would ever be invented, let alone built. As far as construction, which is what I was talking about -- it is nice to have access like that if you are remodeling and I have a very few times needed access to voltage like that, but for construction purposes it is usually overkill or unnecessary. I have very few portable 220v tools. I have had to plug in a jackhammer to 220v more than once, but it has a very long cord anyway. And let me say I stand corrected on the fact that they do sell them online. Looks like I was wrong. I do not think I will be buying one though (thanks for the link, Barry) as its $400 for the 6/4 cord plus shipping, plus the ends you need. In my defense all you are really buying here is bundled wire. You are making the cord up yourself. Almost every crew I know has cut into an extension or we have had to work in the rain, etc. That is a lot of amps feeding through there. I just can't think of what I would hook up to it that I would need, unless it was Mafell/Euro stuff for a specialized tool. It would be easier just to use the generator which I have around anyway or my step-up transformer. I guess it would be nice to have for a rainy day -- if it wasn't raining.


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## fish_stix

Mythomane; think welding, 220 volt table saws, pumps, etc, etc, etc, etc,. Ever do any commercial construction? Ever try to build a steel structure without welding? Every temporary power pole we put on a job has 220 available, residential or commercial, and inspected by the building department before they will turn power on. And the vast majority of our inspectors in FL are retired builders, electricians, plumbers, civil engineers. BTW, thank you Barry for the links. I usually just have my electrician provide or make up the extensions and pay him megadollars for them!


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## mythomane

I am sure there is all kinds of stuff that you need to build a walmart. That is not really my area of expertise, and I am not sure what that has to do with table saws. It was not my intent to get in a war over extension cords. My wife has just informed me that I am being insane and wasting my time. She is probably right. That said, my point was they are not readily available off the rack for common sense reasons which I have already laid out. I only know any of this because I wanted one a few years ago and had to splice one up, but ended up just using the generator. It was to run a giant hobart mixer in my backyard. Don't ask. Merry Xmas!

Here is a welding thread about the subject for anyone who cares:

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=11537


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## pascopol

You can turn any 120V rated extension cord into 240V just change the plug and output plug for proper 240 plug assumong you observe current capacity (thickness, gauge)

Assuming you carry the same power, 240 V device cord will draw HALF the current of equvalent 120 device of same power. So 240 cord will carry LESS current and need nor to be as thick (gauge) as same power carrying 120V cord.

Commercial "240 V" cords are priced outregiously high taking adventage of common ignorance among public.

Remember the electric conduit in the walls (house wiring) contains of various thickness of the wire (gauge 14, 12 10 etc) according to the CURRENT of circuit/fuse capacity NOT the VOLTAGE.

Same KIND wire is used for both 120V and 240 circuits thickness (gauge) is dependent on current flow value (Amps) not the voltage (Volts).


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## Solomon Parker

Just to add to that, notice that all are rated for 600 volts.


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## mythomane

Amps kill. I have been zapped with 15k @ 110 hundreds of times. Of course, this may explain a few things...


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## BGhoney

I was in the same boat 4 years ago, I have a 20 inch grizzly planner and am plenty happy with than, I wanted a better than average table saw but not a $1500 dollar model. I went with the powermatic 120 v , it was about $750 . Great fence nice to be able to lightly lock it in place and not worry about the cut. I didn't want the big heavy cast model wanted to be able to roll it around. Couldn't be happier


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## Daniel Y

mythomane said:


> I bet the OSHA guy is not coming around checking the molecular accelerator every day, though.


This is a very common assumption. In fact the fire department has three full time inspectors just for the University. OSHA has one full time inspector just for us, We have our own EH&S department that is housed in a three story building. And yes we do get dinged by OSHA. Last fine I heard of was $50,000 for a missing blade guard on a table saw no less.

In the medical and science departments they play with some of those things that horror movies are made of. We have a couple of the highest level health risk labs. I had to go in one the other day to do some work. you have to wear special clothes and gloves. then nothing that went in the room can come out. Not the clothes, not the broken equipment, not even the paper towel you washed your hands with after removing the gloves (Mandatory). It is all left in a bin in the room and burned. Lets just say in that place you do not trip and knock anything over. Lots of fun at times.


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## mythomane

Clean Rooms, yeah. At the end of the day it is whatever and whomever you are dealing with as far as inspections go. It is a crapshoot. Been hit with stuff not even on the books while others ignore major issues. Roll the dice.


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## minz

My old Craftman has seen better days as well and I am also shopping for a new saw. Every time I get ready to pull out my wallet I think better of it and go get that blade sharpened again. Thing is I cannot seem to spend the money to get my cheap Vermont Dato “high speed” stack sharpened. I have cut a lot of Oak with the saw and it is getting tired. I upgraded the fence to a Delta fence, put melamine router table in the extended distance, and built a roll around. I hate to start over $1000 down and with fewer items. BTW the industrial power is 3 phase 208 volt and when we are building we run “spider boxes” 120/208 50 amps (like in the attached link, http://cepnow.com/?p=383 ) but we are not cutting studs and installing cabinets.


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## Solomon Parker

Where would one go to get a blade sharpened?


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## Barry

"saw blade sharpening [your county]" in Google should do the trick.


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## divemaster1963

if you are using a standard blade that does not have the carbite blades You could get a very inexpencive sharpener from Harbor freight tools .com . It works great. afriend has one he uses for all his work saws.


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## Daniel Y

Just some info for many that woudl not kow. Carbide tip blades seldom become dull. They become dirty far more often than they dull. Try cleaning them up before you toss them and see if it does not restore their ability to cut.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

Looks like this turned into an off-topic firestorm. LOL.
Mike


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

A good place to get a good, table, radial arm, or miter saw, is to constantly check Craig's List. Lots of people get into woodworking, buy good stuff, never really use it, and will take a pitance just to get it out of the garage. I have 8 table saws, 4 thickness planers, one radial arm. All but one, bought from Craig List adds. There are literally hundreds listed on Nashville and Louisville Craigs List. Very cheap, never got a bad one.

To see what is available, go on Craigs List, click on Nashville or Louisville, (or whatever big city is near you) then click on tools. Then type in the search for saw and look what comes up. 

Before someone asks why I have so many, Each saw is dedicated to an operation, no changing fence, or thickness on the planers.

cchoganjr


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## Solomon Parker

Sounds like a fantastic idea. Does anybody sell extra square footage for my shop on Craigs List? Cheap?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Yes, I checked Craigs List and there are listings for storage buildings, commercial buildings, pre fab buildings, and everything in between HA!!

By the way.... Go Hogs..

cchoganjr


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## whiskeytripping

I'm new to the wood working thing, but did a fair amount of research and settled on this 
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW744X...=UTF8&qid=1356229189&sr=8-1&keywords=dw744xrs

It handles the dado rather good with 3/4" cuts. And the stand is AAA+++

This being said, I if I could locate a older Rockwell, i would jump on it so quick your head would spin. P.s., the dewalt is at least made in Mexico


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## ralittlefield

Solomon Parker said:


> Where would one go to get a blade sharpened?


Around here lumber yards are a drop off point for getting blades sharpened. Drop the blade off, it is picked up by the folks who will sharpen it and returned the following week.


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## Mr.Beeman

I was fortunate to find a Delta contractor grade table saw at an estate sale about 20 years ago. The gentleman that owned it passed away and the daughters were selling it. Used very little (paint barely scratched) and for small craft projects.
It was tucked away in a little garage extension and was barely visable. 
I was guessing there was about $500.00 worth of saw and accessories. I was told they wanted $100.00. I gave them $200.00 and backed up the truck.
One day it will be in MY estate sale I suppose.


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## Daniel Y

Cleo, My shop is a mess. Can I come use yours?


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## Specialkayme

whiskeytripping said:


> I'm new to the wood working thing, but did a fair amount of research and settled on this
> http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW744X...=UTF8&qid=1356229189&sr=8-1&keywords=dw744xrs


I'd suggest against the table saw listed. It's a very nice saw, and Dewalt products are usually well built, but for that money you can get something much better.

Here is a good guide to reading up on different types of table saws, their pros and cons: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/...ns-making-sense-all-choices-part-1-3-a-43321/

What you have listed is a portable job site saw. Generally, it's good to use those when you are in transit alot, you need to toss a table saw into the bed of your truck and move on to the next site. If you are planning on having it be more stable, get a more stable table saw. More sturdy = safer, more predictable cuts, more accurate cuts. 

Here is a good one that is in the same price range: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...aa5183&cj=true&cm_mmc=CJ-_-5738583-_-11210757

Much more sturdy, much better fence system. It will take up much more space though. If space is of prime importance and you don't care about the accuracy of the cuts (or the safety of the saw) then you are better off going with a $100-200 bench top saw.

Personally, I went with a cheapo $150 bench top saw to start with. I saw the folly in my actions (and cheapskateness) and went the much further route and now got a steel city cabinet saw: http://www.toolking.com/steel-city-35950g-10-inch-granite-top-cabinet-saw?CAWELAID=1410675964

But, to each their own.


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## EastSideBuzz

I have one of these and love it http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41fbQOoWyBL._SL500_AA280_.jpg


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## ralittlefield

I think that one of the most important consideration in a table saw is the fence. I highly recommend a Biesemeyer or similar t-square fence.


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## My-smokepole

My feeling on Shopsmith 5 in one. Is you are Divide and concour. Yes you can do a lot of thing but they do most thing pour to fare. The only five in one tool that I have ever like is my putty type knife. 
David


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## beeman2009

Question that somewhat pertains to this,

I have a Rockwell jobsite table saw with a 5/8" arbor. Reviewer on Amazon says it will not accept a dado blade yet other saws I've looked at that say they do accept dado blades and they too have a 5/8" arbor. Does anyone know if a saw with a 5/8" arbor will handle a dado blade? :scratch:
Thanks


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## ralittlefield

The 5/8" diameter if fine. Do you know if the length of the arbor is an issue?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

The length will be an issue if you ever want to use a 3/4 or 7/8 dado set on it. 

If 5/8 arbors won't accept a dado, someone needs to tell the three saws I have them on now. 5/8 is totally acceptable . 

cchoganjr


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## whiskeytripping

Specialkayme, that saw is only a 13amp motor, and it doesn't mention anything about accepting a dado blade, I'm sure it probably wouldn't with being a 13 amp motor. Good warranty though:thumbsup:


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## Daniel Y

http://www.woodcraft.com/category/2084165/rockwell-table-saw-and-accessories.aspx

If you look at this page you will see that it has an optional Dado throat plate. Strong indication to me that it can handle a dado blade of some sort. how wide that blade can get would still be in question.

Ah I just looked at the throat plate. max width 7/16 inch and a 6 inch dado blade. That is a dado blade but not much of one.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

I agree with Daniel Y. You need a saw that will handle an 8 inch dado set, at least 3/4 width, especially if you want to use sleds. I like sleds becasue the sled moves in two miter grooves, not just one. A little more stable. The sled will take 1/2 to 3/4 thickness.

One more tidbit everyone needs to know, if your saw has a tilting table. When cutting box joints, make sure the lock is fastened on the tilt. The vibration on box joints can cause the table to tilt slightly, and if that happens, even slightly, your fingers/valleys will not go together. If the saw does not have a tilt lock, duct tape the handle so it cannot move, not even slightly move.

cchoganjr


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## Charlie B

These are my babies. Dewalt DW745 and company. This is all you need. You don't need any dado blades for fancy joints. Butt joint, glue and screw!


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## odfrank

beeman2009 said:


> Does anyone know if a saw with a 5/8" arbor will handle a dado blade? :scratch:Thanks


I have a vintage 1975 Rockwell table saw with a 5/8" arbor that accepts a 6" dado. Used it yesterday.


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## mmmooretx

I have been looking at the Bosh work site 10" saw with the gravity rise stand, digital display outfeed tables, etc. It folds up to store, supports dado, etc. Runs around $750 with options.

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-4100-09-10-Inch-Worksite-Gravity-Rise/dp/B000S5S5CW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJEnJD_F1yg&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Beregondo

I got that saw as a gift from a friend and have been very happy with it.
It takes up little room when stored, and is more than adequate for making wooden ware.


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## EastSideBuzz

Charlie B said:


> These are my babies. Dewalt DW745 and company. This is all you need. You don't need any dado blades for fancy joints. Butt joint, glue and screw!


Dude, you need one of these http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4356197&cagpspn=pla I could not build bee equipment without it. It is the most used tool in my arsenal.


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## Charlie B

EastSideBuzz said:


> Dude, you need one of these http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4356197&cagpspn=pla I could not build bee equipment without it. It is the most used tool in my arsenal.


I did not know DeWalt made them in 18V, wow, I'm on it. Thanks and Merry Christmas!


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## EastSideBuzz

Charlie B said:


> I did not know DeWalt made them in 18V, wow, I'm on it. Thanks and Merry Christmas!


I was just browsing amazon when I found it. In 2 hours Santa is giving me a new drill with 2 more 18v batteries with a charger. Dont need the drill but, it was cheaper then buying just 2 batteries on black friday.

Also back to the topic I have the Rigid portable table saw and it is great. I cut stuff just to cut them because I like the saw so much.
This is a really good price http://www.tylertool.com/factory-reconditioned-ridgid-zrr4510-10-in-portable-table-saw-with-stand/rgdrzrr4510,default,pd.html?ref=froogle&origin={adtype}&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=478&zmap=ZRR4510

I would not be afraid of the reconditioned part. I have several reconditioned Rigid staple guns and they rock for making frames. http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm Do a Google search for them or Amazon.com


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

EastSideBuzz said:


> Dude, you need one of these http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4356197&cagpspn=pla I could not build bee equipment without it. It is the most used tool in my arsenal.


East Side Buzz,,, Could you elaborate. What do you use it for. I have a Makita, but I can't think of any application in making bee equipment. I must be missing something.

Thanks.

cchoganjr


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## ralittlefield

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> I can't think of any application in making bee equipment. I must be missing something.


I'm with you Cleo. I can't think of any use for a side grinder in making bee equipment.


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## Daniel Y

Eastside, You have an audience gathering. I wanna know how you use it for making hives also.


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## minz

I was looking back at this old thread, (waiting for the kids to get up to open their presents) kind of funny. I upgraded my old craftsman saw(it did run until I sold it) with a Grizzly 220 volt 3 hp. I got a radial arm saw ($25 dollars) , and a new stack of dato’s. I have started making galvanized tops but have not found a need for the grinder.


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## rwurster

It could be used to put the beekeepers initials on the outside of one's boxes, non-legibly


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## beeman2009

Add me to the list. How do you use it? :scratch: I have a corded Makita that I've had for years. Upload some photos or a video of it's use in action.

Thanks


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## EastSideBuzz

minz said:


> I have started making galvanized tops but have not found a need for the grinder.


When making frames and boxes and a staple goes squirrely on you the grinder works great. Also if you need to remove some nails from the pallet planks that you use to make something with. Or when you are modifying a pallet to make a 4 way. It is awesome and portable.


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## BGhoney

If I was scramped for space I liked the bosch table top saw.. Very nice


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## Gino45

BGhoney said:


> If I was scramped for space I liked the bosch table top saw.. Very nice


After reading through some of the posts, I fail to see mentioned the v belt gravity drive type vs the direct drive.

I've owned one of each, and my experience is that the v belt is much better. With the other type you can destroy the little drive belts pretty easily, and they don't come cheap. V belts are generic and will last a long time.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Gino45....Others... I use 2 of the Sears Craftsman 113.298360, and two Model 113.298051, and have made hundreds of boxes, bottom boards, inner covers and tops, and have never had a motor or belt problem. The only problem I have had in the past 5 years of making hives is the blade height adjustment wheel. I have stripped two. But, since the table tilt adjustment wheel., and the blade adjustment wheel is the same, I have simply exchanged them. Don't need the table to tilt anyway. I know the belt drive is supposed to be better, but, just my experience, there is no way they could be any better than no problems..

Bye the way, all 4 of these were picked up, used, off Craigs List for less than $125.00 each. I would highly recommend this model saw, (113.298360). (Also highly recommend Craftsman 113.298051 Two are set up with dado, (one for box joint on deep and shallows, one for groove on the side rail of bottom board.) The other two set to rip width of deep box, and one for cutting tops. Very dependable, absolutely no problems. If I were going to replace any one of them I would go to Craigs List and search for those two models.

cchoganjr


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## whiskeytripping

Well, i just bought a really good looking saw from craigslist. Its a vintage craftsman saw model#113.29960
This thing has hardly ever been used. I gave 185$ for it. But it has all the pieces with it. Overall im really happy with it. From what im seeing from looking around, it looks to be from the 64 to 70 model era. It has the divorced rear motor. These older saws have ALOT of adjustments on them. My Dewalt dont have but a couple really. The operators manual has all kinds of adjustments. These older saws have smaller rated horsepower motors than tje new ones. This one is a 1HP. craigslist is the way to go. Hope this speed up the process in he shed


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## Ravenseye

That is a GOOD saw! They (Craftsman) don't make it like that anymore. I just got rid of an old 7" model. Hard to find parts for and a lot was getting tired on it but it weighed a ton, was solid as a rock and cut like it was going through butter. I bet I could get a few $$$ just for the scrap metal on it!


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## whiskeytripping

Thanks Raven, after looking online, it looks like any Craftsman saw with the model number starting with 113 are made by Emerson Electric and are very good quality. The fence will probably a upgrade i make one day. Until then i might use clamps and 2x4's. it just might need some adjustments on it. I think nowadays, its best to look for this old iron. Let everyone else go with the China built stuff. Its sad to see quality drop so much over the years. Im 38 years old, and quality is leaving my generation quick. Some day, kids will only be able to read about it in history books. Its a throw away society now


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

whiskeytripping...If you are going to make bee equipment more than one time, make patterns rather than using a fence to make your cuts. Let the miter groove be the guide by having the pattern drop into the miter groove, and the pattern acts as your fence. That way every box will be the same, and you don't have to set a fence for each cut. I have 6 table saws in my operation, and they all came from Craigs List, and four of them are older Sears 113.298360 and 113.298050. Made thousands of boxes, never had a problem with any of them. Most paid for any of them, $125.00. I make box joints, but, rabbets will work fine. 

For a starter, The Delta table top planers (22-540, 22-560 TP 305) will do a good job on pine, poplar, and cypress, and you can find them on Craigs List for less than $200.00. . 

cchoganjr


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## Specialkayme

whiskeytripping said:


> Specialkayme, that saw is only a 13amp motor, and it doesn't mention anything about accepting a dado blade, I'm sure it probably wouldn't with being a 13 amp motor.


The rigid I linked to does accept a dado blade.


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## whiskeytripping

Hello Mr Hogan, when you get time could you show us some pictures of your patterns? I have a box joint jig i can set up for the box joints, but the other cuts your talking about i must be drawing a blank. This old Craftsman saw i got it a beautiful saw, it just that the fences they had back then were not as good as the newer stuff. The miter seems like it will be a good one. If im getting what your saying correctly, you build a sled with stops on it, then use it to cut your 1x12's? Pictures im sure would explain it a little easier. If this is the case, it will eliminate me from having to purchase a new fence. That would be great. Thanks again for your response and info


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## Daniel Y

Continuing with Cleos thought. There are tricks and short cuts in a shop. there are ways to get top quality accurate to the width of a hair cuts time and again. and you don't do it by measuring every cut. The way to do it is with what are called jigs. You can buy them or you can make them. I tend to make them as they are usually very simple.


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## Ravenseye

Specialkayme said:


> The rigid I linked to does accept a dado blade.


I have that saw and use a stacked dado with no problems at all. It's a nice saw. Passes the nickel test like a charm!


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## whiskeytripping

Thanks Daniel for your response, im glad to be learning the tricks of the trade. Im having to measure, measure, measure, then cut scrap then make a cut. Its a lengthy process, then after running my cuts, i have to reset everything to do a different style cut. Im building 3 complete langstroth hives (2-deeps for brood, 2-medium supers for honey each) and i have worked my tail off. I would like to build more. As everyone knows, by the time you build your first couple, you work out all the screw ups. But i guess i need to build some sleds for patterns now. Do you use any particular type wood? I live in texas and at most stores red oak is about as hard as it gets around here. Not anywhere as good as hard maple


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

My dado runs on a sled, but the patters for width of deeps and shallows, , side rail bottom boards. sides of top, entrance reducers, front rabbets, wax cleats, etc., just lay in the miter groove, and it acts as your fence for the width,. Once you have them correct, every one will be the same. To make all aspects of a bee box requires about 15 patterns, simple to make, and once made, you simply place in miter groove then cut. I will go to the shop today and make photos of all the patterns, and post as soon as possible.

cchoganjr


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## Daniel Y

Whisky. Red Oak is going to be a little over the top for jigs. I use nice looking scrap for most of the parts of mine. it it needs a sizable foundation or is goign to be a big jig for several purposes some nicer quality 1/2 inch ply will work. You want a nice flat stable surface. I like Masonite for anything that will have the wood sliding over it. for just holding. make the holding part very accurate and that is the main concern.

Cleo mentions a sled above. for a sled I focus on the sliding action of the sled. I want it smooth and not catches and jerks. A veneered particle board might work best for that. such as the white shelf material you can find at Home Depot.
There is really nothing wrong with making a jig out of oak if you want it to be something you use for the rest of your life. Some people take more pride in the jigs they make than they do in the woodworking they do with that jig. So it is sort of up to you. but the main thing is that the jig does the job you made it for and it does it well. repeatedly and reliably.


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## Daniel Y

here is one of my favorite jig types for a very basic and simple cut. most people will just grab a board and rip it. not thinking much about it. but then when they stack two boxes on top of each other they see small gaps and little flaws in how straight their cut was.
Ripping a board is one of my least favorite things to do. especially long ones. I like a lot of holding power right at the saw blade. not only downward but toward the fence as well. The Board Buddy is doing both right where you need it. Notice also they are using the fence to guide the width of the cut in this case. most fences cannot be relied on to do this. This just happens to be a good fence type.








If you want t draw a straight line you would use a ruler. jigs are the rulers when it comes to cutting wood.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

I went out this morning and took photos of my box joint sled and the patterns that anchor in the miter groove. This is my box joint sled.







Photo of underside of box joint sled, to show how the sled slides in the two miter grooves.








Photo of front of box joint sled.


In the underside photo you can see how the sled slides in the two miter grooves.

Daniel Y has the right idea about the base for the sled, however on this one I did not use plywood.

I will upload photos of patterns as soon as I get them downsized.

Hope this helps.

cchoganjr


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

whiskeytripping. Here are photos of my patterns. Mine hang on the wall behind my two primary saws, but you can stack them any way you wish. My patterns are made from oak, pine, and Advantec.







This photo shows some of the patterns to make bee equipment. All of these anchor in the miter groove.







This photo shows pattern for hive top. Pattern is upside down to show the miter groove anchor.







This photo shows pattern for making the rabbet on front and rear of bee boxes for hanging frames. You can see the miter anchor in the miter groove.







This photo shows pattern for making rabbet on front and rear of bee boxes. Note the board on top of the pattern that prevents fingers from getting in the saw blade, and also holds the board tight against the saw table.

Hope this helps. Have one more pattern to post. The one that makes the "D" handles for the boxes using a Skil Saw.

If any of this is not clear, let me know. I will try to do better.

cchoganjr


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

This pattern is for making the "D" type handles utilizing a Skil Saw. Fast, Easy, Safe, There is a video on U-Tube.

cchoganjr


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## whiskeytripping

Thanks Mr Hogan, and Daniel. Thanks for taking the time to clarify these things for me, and others. This is some good stuff right here. This will be way better than going and buying a new fence system for this saw. Im just gonna take it all off for now and put it to the side. Where i just have a flat table to work with. And save some money for the jigs (and saving scrap) Mr Hogan, does your table saws have 1 HP motors? Thats what this one has, that seems light! But then again the emerson motor is rated at 14 amps. Thanks againg guys for taking time out to show us newbys how to do things right


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## ralittlefield

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> View attachment 3854
> This pattern is for making the "D" type handles utilizing a Skil Saw. Fast, Easy, Safe, There is a video on U-Tube.
> 
> cchoganjr


This is great! Have you ever tried to modify it for use on a table saw? Not sure there would be any advantage, I'm just curious.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

whiskeytripping... Four of my six saws are Sears 113.298360 and 113.298050. One is a Sears 137.221940. The other is a Delta Table model. They are all direct drive,(no belt), cheap saws, They are all older Sears, purchased off CraigsList. I just looked in the Owner Manuel for the 113.298360 and it is listed as a 1 HP. These saws have made thousands of boxes.

I started many years ago with the 113.298360, and as I bought others to leave them set up and not have to change patterns, I looked for the model numbers that had the same table, so the miter grooves would be the same, and thus all patterns would interchange. If I were to have a problem, I can just change saws, the patterns will fit

cchoganjr.


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## whiskeytripping

Good deal, thanks for all your help.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

ralittlefield... I started to make a sled for table saw use, but I found it would take more time to set up the sled, and it would be more difficult to make the hand hold as wide as I like it.

There is a good video on UTube by Jim Hensel that shows how to do it on a table saw, but he never really shows what the hand hold looks like after it is cut. His method only takes about 20 seconds, where my Skil Saw method takes 30-45 seconds. His method will only make the hand hold the width of the arc of the blade. I like mine a little wider.


If you want to see my UTube video, here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaWRjpJ5f0w or you can search, Making hand holds on bee boxes using a circular saw safely.

cchoganjr


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## Daniel Y

As for the hand hold jig. I am satisfied just borrowing Cleo's Idea. I am pretty sure if I thought about it long enough I could come up with something that woudl work on a table saw. The first problem is that this cut is the product of a blade that changes depth in the wood. The blade on a table saw is fixed. In the case of the Cleo's design the blade is what is being moved not the wood.

For the table saw you need to reverse this moment. the blade sets still and the wood moves. but you still want the movement to be exactly the same in relationship of wood to blade. i hope this makes since. The key here is the idea it is opposite. So start looking at Cleo's jig and thinking opposite. The opposite of the saw being tilted is that the wood is tilted. the opposite of the saw on top is that the wood is on top and the opposite of the saw being moved is that the wood is moved. 

So flip the whole jig over place the wood so it is held at an angle and make a guide so the entire thing can be pushed sideways at the table saw blade. At least that is the basic idea. good luck with that 

Oh an pray the blade can be raised high enough to cut the wood deep enough.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Daniel Y... Sounds about right to me. 

The UTube video by Jim Hensel shows how to make the hand holds on a table saw utilizing a dado blade and a sled. It is a good video, and he explains how to make the jig. It is more complicated.

UTube also has one on how to make with a radial arm saw. Way too radical for me.

cchoganjr


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## JRH

When Cleo Hogan speaks about beekeeping-woodworking, always listen.


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## Charlie B

I second what JRH just said!


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## Rader Sidetrack

I'm another member of the _Cleo Hogan Fan Club_. I just wish I had the indoor space to set up 6 tablesaws! :lookout:


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## whiskeytripping

Me too, its good to have guys that go out of their way to help. Hes a good wood worker, and i appreciate all of his help AND his service to our country. Daniel, and some other guys are a big help on here as well. Great website :applause:


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## whiskeytripping

I wanted to post that separately. NOW i just scored a rockwell/Delta Unisaw on craigslist with 10" blade and 220V 2HP motor. Im pretty stoked. (Im catching up to Mr Hogan) this puts me at 3. After all the reading on the Unisaw i had to get one. I traded a ar-15 lower and 6-30 round magazines. I STOLD this basically


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

whiskeytripping...AR-15's and parts, are becomming valuable. A friend called a day or so ago, and asked what they were worth. I said $600.00 to $2000.00. He started looking,..... everyone is sold out. 

I appreciate the nice comments, and the MR. stuff, but really, Cleo is just fine with me. Mister makes me feel so old, which I am, but, I still pretend. I do enjoy helping anyone I can. And yes, this is a get website. Thanks guys.

cchoganjr


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## whiskeytripping

I feel kinda bad, i only had about 265$ in all of it. And he wanted 1200$. So i came out on the good side. Buy cheap and sell high. I knew those AR's would be worth something one day. This saw doesnt have the side tables. Im sure Unisaw parts are still easily found surely. I would like to find some side tables one day for a good deal maybe


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## Daniel Y

whisky, Good job! that is a major find. Side tables would be nice if you get into much larger work. But a Unisaw is a seriously nice piece of equipment. Congrats.


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## whiskeytripping

Thanks Daniel


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## buzz abbott

37 V8 said:


> Jim, I just bought a Bosch refurbished 10" table saw with stand from Bosch.CPO that works very well. Looks like a brand new saw. It came with a decent blade included, which was surprising.Bryan


What model did you get? I see they have a portable on sale new for 399. Looks like it is very stoable.


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## buzz abbott

ralittlefield said:


> This is great! Have you ever tried to modify it for use on a table saw? Not sure there would be any advantage, I'm just curious.


I know next to nothing about woodworking, but could one use the tilt on the table saw blade and slowly bring it to 90 degrees to cut the hand hold?


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## Daniel Y

Buzz, I woudl not recommend that and i am not sure it woudl work either. One the blade is supported by a fairly large carriage in a table saw. If you loosen that carriage while the saw is running. and add stress to it by having it cut. I am not certain what sort of problems it might cause. Along with that you woudl have to see how a blade is moving when it tilts to really get it. but it is not a nice long curving motion. Finally your arm would get worn out after just a few boxes. progress would be painfully slow. You would want the blade tilted a few degrees something like 14 to 15 degrees even with a sled.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

buzz abbott...No that won't work. I don't know if I can explain it very well but, that would only allow the blade to move in an arc. Even if you had your wood piece on an incline, the arc would not cut the full handle. You could do it by tilting the blade and raising the height of the blade, but, that would be more time consuming and difficult.

cchoganjr


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## ralittlefield

That may get the job done, but would be a little slow, and if you had a lot of boxes to do, you may run out of gas before you were done. It would be a lot of arm work.


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## buzz abbott

anyone familiar with craftsman model 113.12181?


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## tbirdman52

Mr. Hogan,

Have you found or did you make zero clearance inserts for your craftsman table saws (113.2989360)? If so, where or how did you come by them? Thank you for your time.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

I had them made. I took a zero insert that came with the saw and had a local fix-it shop, (Tom's repair), cut the insert out to the size I needed with a plasma cutter. I started to make one with an angle grinder, but, it was very time consuming. I gave up and had it cut with a plasma cutter.

cchoganjr


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## Barry

http://www.rockler.com/articles/zero-clearance-table-saw-inserts.cfm


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Thanks, Barry. That is good to know. I have two saws that didn't have the insert when I bought them, but since I use them for dado blades, I don't need the regular insert unless I go back to using them for normal saw cuts.

Barry.. If I read the info correctly, their stock inserts fit Craftsman Saws with belt drive. the 113.298360 and 113.298051 are direct drive. All of mine are direct drive, but on some models, the saw tables have the same part number for direct drive and belt driven models. If so, The inserts should still work.

Some time ago, I made a zero clearance for a Delta Miter Saw using Masonite Board, and it works, doesn't look the greatest, didn't do the best job on the cutout, but it works. I noticed one reason given for using plastic for inserts, rather than wood, is to prevent swelling and contraction due to weather changes. I don't think this would matter with Masonite unless it was outside, in which case the Masonite would likely fall apart anyway.

cchoganjr


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## kilocharlie

Apologies for raising a ghost thread from 2012 / 2013, but have any of you looked at *SAWSTOP*?

The mechanism has an electric current running through the blade that can sense your skin beginning to cut and releases a spring-loaded aluminum brake onto the saw blade. It stops so fast that you sometimes don't even get a little bit of blood, just a skin-deep slice! Safest table saw on the market.

I put that purchase into the business plan. I'll be getting their high-end cabinetmaker model for my shop. They also have a contractor model (mid-range price) and a homeowner model (low-end price).

I have been very impressed with saw blades by Freud. Their new dado sure cuts a clean FBJ.


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## AAIndigo

I was a contractor or 30 years (the recession fixed that) I have a full blown wood shop with a Delta Unisaw. It has since been pushed to the side (major metal shaping tools are in place now).

I am now making all my boxes and hive components with my older Bosch table saws. These are large portable table saws that I used on job sites. Kind of big buy still portable. Adjustable table will cut up to 24". Sturdy and will allow a dado blade. 

Back extracting port fits onto my 2" dust collector. Nice cut and true measurements.

I would stay away from the cheaper saws if your looking for something that lasts. Mine are 15 years old now. Beat up and cuy as strong as the day I bought them.

Here is the newer version

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=GTS1041A-09


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## EastSideBuzz

So I use the rigid tablesaw. But, after I cut the thumb to the bone earlier this summer ( filleted it ) I am going to get the http://www.sawstop.com/ as soon as I build out my work shop. It was way too close and the thumb survived but, the deductibles on the fix cost more then the new saw.


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## Terry C

EastSideBuzz said:


> So I use the rigid tablesaw. But, after I cut the thumb to the bone earlier this summer ( filleted it ) I am going to get the http://www.sawstop.com/ as soon as I build out my work shop. It was way too close and the thumb survived but, the deductibles on the fix cost more then the new saw.


 I'm using an older Delta direct drive "contractors saw" , 10" , cast iron table , and a fence from who-knows-what saw . I use push sticks when there's any chance of getting a finger in the blade ... been there and lost a little flesh and it made me much more careful . The only fixture I use other than the fence is a sled to cut pieces to length , everything else is cut with the fence .


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## the doc

EastSideBuzz said:


> So I use the rigid tablesaw. But, after I cut the thumb to the bone earlier this summer ( filleted it ) I am going to get the http://www.sawstop.com/ as soon as I build out my work shop. It was way too close and the thumb survived but, the deductibles on the fix cost more then the new saw.


I have the contractor version of sawstop. With a nice blade, It is more than adequate for my beekeeping related woodwork. 
It is more expensive but frankly I cannot afford to lose one of my appendages. 

I have the longer rip fence mobile stand version, but I am in the process of replacing it with a custom built table with heavy duty castors


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## windfall

I brought the profesional grade sawstop into the shop about a year ago.

It's beautifully built saw, easily comparable or better to all the others in the price bracket.
Depending how you break out all the extras and such, your really only paying 3-400 more for the safety brake....to me that's a no brainer on a purchase of this size for that degree of insurance.
It's probably harder to swallow when looking at a small job site type saw. I suspect it must near double the cost. But it's still just a few hundred bucks to insure your fingers.

I've worked full time for years in woodshops, and never been bitten by a table saw. But I also know plenty of craftsman I respect, with experience equal and exceeding my own who have. It happens. It happens even when your careful and know your buisness.
I hear lots of folks saying how we did just fine without them for years and it is true. You make do with what you have. But I wouldn't buy a car without airbags now that we have them..

I'd like to see a 12" jointer with similar technology.


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