# OAD Trial



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

I ran my own little OAD trial and have posted my results over on my website. 

Rusty's OAD Trial

Hope this will help anybody else wondering about summer OAD treatments.

Rusty


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Thanks. I've got the syringe and everything just waiting to see a wave of others piping in. 
Would like to have as many mite-tools in my box as possible and have been hesitant on this one.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Interesting;

Did you have any reservations about using multiple applications of Oxalic Acid in the sugar syrup dribble method? Not so many years ago that was a bit of a red flag.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I have been experimenting here this year and have found similar results. I have not done any sugar rolls or alcohol washes, but the signs of heavy varroa infestation was greatly reduced and bees are doing well. No signs of brood or queen losses that I can see from using it. My recipe and method were slightly different...

I used 15oz hot water, stir in 3 level tablespoons of oxalic acid until clear, then add 15oz sugar, stir until clear. Put in trigger spray bottle and set to a thin fine stream, and lightly spray each seam of bees in the brood boxes. I did it on two occasions, once in late winter and again in early spring. I then did it twice, once a week for two weeks in early summer. Right now the bees look shiny and healthy, are foraging, with decent solid brood patterns. The bees here are at least somewhat hygienic as I see solid clear brood cappings just as they are capped, but as the brood comes closer to emerging, it gets a little spotty from hygienic pupae removal. 

So far it looks good to me, but I've not done the closer checking and documenting that Rusty Hills Farm has done.

The recipe I use can be cut down by thirds, using 5oz hot water, 1 level tablespoon of oxalic acid, then adding in 5oz sugar.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Interesting... I'd MUCH rather do this than vaporize if I had to choose between the two. Vaporizing is too tedious in my opinion. How big were your samples showing 50 mites, Rusty? Or what % infestation, I mean.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

jwcarlson said:


> Interesting... I'd MUCH rather do this than vaporize if I had to choose between the two. Vaporizing is too tedious in my opinion. How big were your samples showing 50 mites, Rusty? Or what % infestation, I mean.


I'm thinking the same thing after doing 2/3 of three-round treatments. If I had to do all my colonies with oav it'd take me ten two days to do one round of treating. With MAQ's I did 20 in less than 90 minutes and barely broke a sweat. 

Time usage is a factor here and it's big for me. At this time of year am trying to wind down the bees and wind up the duck blind so there is a conflict for time. (plus the garden is winding down) Tore up all my mater plants today because they're pretty much done anyway. Canned so much this year that I'm sick of it. 

Luckily I can do getting ready for duck stuff in the rain or at night or there would be a real problem. My three hobbies mesh pretty well other than that. Waterfowl season ends just at the right time to start in on the bees again.


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## Western (May 29, 2016)

Link is dead for me, even Googling your site it returns "Server not found"?:scratch:

EDIT: Your "Rusty Hills Farm" link works though...


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## Charlestonbee (Mar 26, 2015)

When you treat again thanksgiving and in December do you intend to dribble again? This was my first year using oav in several hives and I too need a better method for summer treatment. It takes forever.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

crofter said:


> Interesting;
> 
> Did you have any reservations about using multiple applications of Oxalic Acid in the sugar syrup dribble method? Not so many years ago that was a bit of a red flag.


Yes, I hesitated, then re-read Randy Oliver's site and found some references to it, so I gambled with 5 hives that it would not have troubled me to lose because they were headed by F3/F4 queens.

My samples were about a half cup of bees from the brood nest for each test. Am I correct that that is about 300 bees? Anyhow, in the past if I had any more than 5 mites, I treated, so these results really made me nervous enough to risk the triple treatment. With each test the numbers went down and by the last one, the results were under 5 mites each. I will treat with OAD once more this year--one time only and in the Thanksgiving/Dec 1 window. That is generally when I have the least brood.

HTH

Rusty


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## Charlestonbee (Mar 26, 2015)

I guess too even if you had queen failure after third treatment you would have been able to get a queen so all would not be lost as hive with that mite load would be lost. Thanks again for the post


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Have read and compared the recipes and it appears that 1.2 ounces of wood bleach is pretty close to three tablespoons. True? 
Another question is "what percent solution is this?". 3.2 or what? 

That is very helpful information to those of us who are too cheap to buy decent scales.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

aunt betty said:


> Another question is "what percent solution is this?". 3.2 or what?


Yes, this is based on the 3.2% formula from Randy Oliver's site. I have only ever weighed the OA, so I don't know how close that is to 3 tablespoons.

Rusty


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I got the mix I use from Randy Oliver's site. Here is the link...
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-treatment-table/

He is very hesitant about sharing this recipe, he's very vocal in his belief of using weight to measure oxalic acid. However, someone did post this to him and he tested it out and made some comments about it. See the particulars just under the table posted at that link. Also, the posting is saying 3 teaspoons, but 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon, so I used tablespoon measurements in my mix.

As I've said before in other posts, I'm trying this out as an experiment and urge everyone to do your own research. I'm not urging this on anyone else, just posting that I myself am trying this out this year. I can't see carrying around a battery and vaporizer to each hive and taking ten minutes for the full process of treating with OAV. This way of doing an OAD seems to be very cheap, quick, and working so far for me here.


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## arcowandbeegirl (Oct 11, 2010)

I have been successful in the past using multiple applications of oad (3 a week a part). I have not seen any bad side effects. I was doing this in September and October. 
I do like the convenience of it and the results!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

RayMarler said:


> I got the mix I use from Randy Oliver's site. Here is the link...
> http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-treatment-table/
> 
> He is very hesitant about sharing this recipe, he's very vocal in his belief of using weight to measure oxalic acid. However, someone did post this to him and he tested it out and made some comments about it. See the particulars just under the table posted at that link. Also, the posting is saying 3 teaspoons, but 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon, so I used tablespoon measurements in my mix.
> ...


Randy no longer has that particular mix formula on his site, he has removed it since shortly after this thread was started.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

It's weird. Some have found the shop towel works, others not. You would think it either works or doesn't. Jennifer Berry is also running a test. She should have her results at EAS.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

jwcarlson said:


> Interesting... I'd MUCH rather do this than vaporize if I had to choose between the two. Vaporizing is too tedious in my opinion. How big were your samples showing 50 mites, Rusty? Or what % infestation, I mean.


Same here and we personally have found that in the summer dribble kills more mites


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

jwcarlson said:


> Interesting... I'd MUCH rather do this than vaporize if I had to choose between the two. Vaporizing is too tedious in my opinion.


I'd have a tendency to agree with you if it were not for the new ProVap 110. Plug and go ........ 20 seconds per hive is hard to beat.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

RayMarler said:


> I can't see carrying around a battery and vaporizer to each hive and taking ten minutes for the full process of treating with OAV. .


No need for that ........ the ProVap 110, 20 seconds per hive, no opening closing etc. Just an inverter and extension cord..........


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

snl said:


> No need for that ........ the ProVap 110, 20 seconds per hive, no opening closing etc. Just an inverter and extension cord..........


Haha yes that does sound nice! Darn it left my wallet at home.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> Same here and we personally have found that in the summer dribble kills more mites


This is the first I have ever heard that OAD kills more mites than OAV. I'd be interestd to learn more about how you came to that conclusion.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

If you have left your wallet at home you can always look at a band heater vaporizer, might take a minute a hive but at around $15 you can work with 2 of them if you are really in a hurry. No need to even open the hive, just remove a 1/4" plug behind the hive insert the device load and go onto preparing the next hive. Can't make it any cheaper or easier than that. Mind you there was this guy who played a flute and all the rats followed him out of town, if you have a flute you could try that with mites
Johno


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

> I'd be interestd to learn more about how you came to that conclusion


Here is my take, 
Toufailia et al. 2015. Journal of Apicultural Research. Vol 54(2) found at at 2.25g per hive OAD killed 93.3% and OAV killed 93.1% however OAV was significant easer on the bees http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00218839.2015.1106777
this puts them in a dead heat (depending on the dose). however his study was winter brood less treatments.
Under summer condistions with brood things change as OAV is said to kill mites for 4 days and OAD for 7, a lot of mites can be emerging and killed in those 3 extra days and with summer brood conditions the extra bee mortality is likly going to go unnoticed by the casualty observer
so I could see how depending on the dose used OAD could kill more mites


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

shinbone said:


> This is the first I have ever heard that OAD kills more mites than OAV. I'd be interestd to learn more about how you came to that conclusion.


Trying it in my own hives and looking at my own sticky boards. 

It kills mites for a longer period and we get a better drop. We just treat at the same time we do other things and it does not take that long and the setup is cheap. Vaporizing is a good treatment as well but just like all treatments there are times when one can work better than the other depending on the time of the year and how you work your brood breaks in ( or how nature works them in.) We dropped the hammer on mites this year with oad. I believe the post on our Facebook page shows some of the drops in the splits we made in June.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

MSL:
Got a source that states OAD kills mites for 7 days during a brooding period?


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

> in practice, OA dribble kills mites for about a week


 http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/ 



> Within two days of the OA treatments in the capped-brood period approximately 70% of the mites had died and the remaining 30% died within next eight days.


 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.663.2052&rep=rep1&type=pdf



> Significantly more mites fell six days after OA application than 2 or 4 days after OA
> application.


https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/pdf/2008/05/m07073.pdf


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## BeesInNJ (Aug 14, 2015)

Do you really need to use a car battery for the vaporizers? Would a smaller 12v 12amp battery work ?


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## Mvs2290 (Apr 28, 2017)

Does anyone here cage the queen before dribbling oxalic to create a broodless window, I was thinking about doing this in august to have time for winter bees to be raised.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Mvs2290 said:


> Does anyone here cage the queen before dribbling oxalic to create a broodless window, I was thinking about doing this in august to have time for winter bees to be raised.


We don't. Just dribble them with the queen laying. If you created a brood break like you said, you could really hammer them. We did this in June and man it is lethal to the mites.


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