# Sticky  Chalkbrood or ?



## crofter

Do you have the hard mummified larva on the bottom board and outside hives? Are the areas of nicely laid eggs progressing to evenly capped cells? Just trying to find out at what stage of development that the cell contents are terminating. 

If there is hardly any honey being capped perhaps those queen cells are supercedure cells not swarm cells. Destroying them might not be best.


----------



## GregB

missgeneralidea said:


> even replaced the queen to help change the genetics but it doesn't seem to work.
> ..................
> What else can I do to eradicate this problem?


Since the genetics flip did not purge the issue (this would be my move too), I'd try a complete reset of this colony.

Just shake them out onto completely new frames in a different box.
Restart them as a small nuc while there is still time.
They should rebound well (with your help).

Assume all the brood/frames/box is "infected" and is a loss and reset it all (dump and clean out - even though the chalkbrood agent is supposed to be present everywhere at all times).
If feel adventuress, you may give the chalkbrood-ed frames to your other hive(s) and most likely they will be OK - at your own judgement.


----------



## crofter

Combining or transferring frames has never been a good experience for me except combing small (but healthy) nucs for wintering purposes. I would not put healthy colonies at risk by using them to test a diagnosis.


----------



## Some Bloke

Chalk brood is a fungus. If the hive is cool and/or damp it makes it easier for the xhalk brood to establish. Is the hive in a different position to your others - a shady spot? A slightly lower elevation? Next to water?

Does the hive have a larger volume above the queen excluder? The nurses have to keep brood around 35C, if they struggle then you can get opportunistic infections like Chalk Brood.


----------



## GregB

The only instance I had this issue (chalkbrood) was a case of crappy genetics, I feel.
They had this issue where it was totally uncalled for.
I did perform a colony reset (I shook them out into a different hive to do the reset from scratch).
But also immediately reused the "infected" hive/frames elsewhere - no issue at all.


----------



## RayMarler

Chalk has always been a genetics issue for me. Try changing your queen supplier, try to find one that has VSH queens. They tend to have better resistance traits to the brood diseases that beehives get. If the infestation is in advanced stage then change out the infected brood combs as well.


----------



## crofter

GregB said:


> The only instance I had this issue (chalkbrood) was a case of crappy genetics, I feel.
> They had this issue where it was totally uncalled for.
> I did perform a colony reset (I shook them out into a different hive to do the reset from scratch).
> But also immediately reused the "infected" hive/frames elsewhere - no issue at all.


This would seem to indicate that there is no need to take precautions of spreading by transferring combs! I doubt that "once" is enough to validate advice that is contrary to most recommendations?


----------



## GregB

crofter said:


> This would seem to indicate that there is no need to take precautions of spreading by transferring combs! I doubt that "once" is enough to validate advice that is contrary to most recommendations?


Like I said - do these things *"at your own judgement".*
As for me I would do it again specifically with the chalkbrood and not loose any sleep.


----------



## Roland

I would shake them on wax foundation and give them a feed pail, just like if they had AFB.

Crazy Roland


----------



## crofter

GregB said:


> Like I said - do these things *"at your own judgement".*
> As for me I would do it again specifically with the chalkbrood and not loose any sleep.


In this case the thread originator has already changed out the queen to no avail. Perhaps the comb is the continued repository of the fungus. Induce a brood break getting rid of all existing and incipient chalk mummies; start with new queen and frames and get the hives up off the ground if they are on pallets. If the other colonies are unaffected, all the more reason NOT to transfer equipment.

I have had some conversation with a person from an area where it is fairly widespread issue that while not devastating is a real drag. Kind of hurts nuc sales.
I questioned the OP on some of the symptoms to ensure the diagnosis was 100% chalkbrood; we have not heard back. 

I am having some experience with Sacbrood which has some of the same results though not the same appearance of the dead larvae. Infected frames can indeed be reused if depopulated and given 5 weeks or more lockdown. I can guarantee that combining is not the right answer: most definitely it also was not when the unbeknownst villain was EFB in 2017.

Consolidating bees and equipment is a good move when a bear visit is the cause of your grief.


----------



## GregB

crofter said:


> In this case the thread originator has already changed out the queen to no avail. Perhaps the comb is the continued repository of the fungus. Induce a brood break getting rid of all existing and incipient chalk mummies; start with new queen and frames and get the hives up off the ground if they are on pallets. If the other colonies are unaffected, all the more reason NOT to transfer equipment.
> 
> I have had some conversation with a person from an area where it is fairly widespread issue that while not devastating is a real drag. Kind of hurts nuc sales.
> I questioned the OP on some of the symptoms to ensure the diagnosis was 100% chalkbrood; we have not heard back.
> 
> I am having some experience with Sacbrood which has some of the same results though not the same appearance of the dead larvae. Infected frames can indeed be reused if depopulated and given 5 weeks or more lockdown. I can guarantee that combining is not the right answer: most definitely it also was not when the unbeknownst villain was EFB in 2017.
> 
> Consolidating bees and equipment is a good move when a bear visit is the cause of your grief.


Reset the colony - exactly what I suggested.

But, let me re-quote myself (I know - people pay no attention; me neither):


> *If feel adventuress*, you may give the chalkbrood-ed frames to your other hive(s) and most likely they will be OK - *at your own judgement*.


Which applies to me.
I tend to be that way - no secret.

Anyway, the "right" bees promptly cleanout the *chalkbrood mummies* - and that is that.
We are talking of a situation where there is one outlying colony affected by the issue (just like here).
Meanwhile, there are others right next to it and appear totally normal.

PS: clearly, I misspelled the "adventurous"


----------



## GregB

crofter said:


> If the other colonies are unaffected, all the more reason NOT to transfer equipment.


I personally would NOT even suggest transferring the brood in most all cases at all - due to mite cross-infestation (first and foremost).
This is exactly what is suggested on exact forum right and left and all over again.

But whatever people want to do - it is their bees and their common sense.


----------



## RayMarler

I'm with GregB,
I never ever put questionable bees or combs, whether it's chalk or anything else into good hives. I keep my good hives good and rebuild up from them when needed.


----------



## crofter

GregB said:


> I personally would NOT even suggest transferring the brood in most all cases at all - due to mite cross-infestation (first and foremost).
> This is exactly what is suggested on exact forum right and left and all over again.
> 
> But whatever people want to do - it is their bees and their common sense.


Thanks for clearing that up. 
Personally I would not be quite as neutral on peoples freedom to take the low road when the results can have impacts beyond their own yards. I have been less than squeaky clean at biohazard control amongst my own hives and have probably paid a price. My EFB experience could very likely have been nipped at several colonies instead of 6 or 7. I am a bit more on guard now but it seems there is always something new or coming around again to sneak up on us.


----------



## RayMarler

RayMarler said:


> I'm with GregB,
> I never ever put questionable bees or combs, whether it's chalk or anything else into good hives. I keep my good hives good and rebuild up from them when needed.


But I have in the past. That's how I learnt not to do it now. Anything suspicious and it does not get joined with any other one. Same thing with moving frames from one to another, only if I'm sure nothing is wrong health wise.


----------



## Jack Grimshaw

I had a severe case of chalk many years ago and tried requeening to no effect.
I finally eradicated it by shaking onto foundation twice.
A waste of my time,a waste of foundation, and the colony was a dink for that season.
I would have been better off killing it from the get go,tossing the comb and sterilizing the woodenware and then making a split from a healthy hive.
This was also the last time I bought a nuc.(it was a reputable supplier too.)


----------



## missgeneralidea

Thanks everyone for the responses. A few things to clarify;

1- I don't want to transfer the equipment to my other hives. If anything, I will decontamination the equipment first by freezing it, and then I burn it with a blow tourch/ wash out with bleach and put wax on the cleaned equipment. If the equipment is a goner it gets tossed.

2- I could hit "re-set" but I don't have any built wax foundation frames on hand now and low on supers. I would have to introduce new starter frames (wax strip ). Do you think it's too late to do this? Also, If I do this would I just split the hive? Take the queen with the 3 good brood patterns/ with bees and 1 frame of honey and start a new hive in a new brood box? And leave the rest of the bees in the same box with the queen cells?

3.) I don't have much land space (urban beekeeper). I would have to put this "re-set" hive right beside the current weak hive. Would this be redundant as the bees might go back into the known hive. I'm not sure.

Yikes.... I'm not sure. I'm heading to take a look again tomorrow morning and I will come back with some photos.


----------



## GregB

missgeneralidea said:


> Thanks everyone for the responses. A few things to clarify;
> 
> 1- I don't want to transfer the equipment to my other hives. If anything, I will decontamination the equipment first by freezing it, and then I burn it with a blow tourch/ wash out with bleach and put wax on the cleaned equipment. If the equipment is a goner it gets tossed.
> 
> 2- I could hit "re-set" but I don't have any built wax foundation frames on hand now and low on supers. I would have to introduce new starter frames (wax strip ). Do you think it's too late to do this? Also, If I do this would I just split the hive? Take the queen with the 3 good brood patterns/ with bees and 1 frame of honey and start a new hive in a new brood box? And leave the rest of the bees in the same box with the queen cells?
> 
> 3.) I don't have much land space (urban beekeeper). I would have to put this "re-set" hive right beside the current weak hive. Would this be redundant as the bees might go back into the known hive. I'm not sure.
> 
> Yikes.... I'm not sure. I'm heading to take a look again tomorrow morning and I will come back with some photos.


Simply move the existing problem hive aside.
Set a new rig in its place.
Move the queen.
Shake the bees in.
Rest of the bees will return to it.
Reduce to have them tight.
Maybe give a couple of frames of honey/bee bread (from clean hives).
Feed - they will be able to rebuild fine until the seasons end.
That's pretty clean start, right there.
While at it - treat for mites.

As for the discontinued stuff...
Probably just melt it all and torch the wooden ware - to take the safe route forward.


----------



## crofter

The link below is in regard to Chalkbrood infection on nesting materials but the methods also apply to honey bee equipment.

Chalkbrood in Honeybees and Leafcutter Bees • Ecrotek 

*Heat treatment*

The safest option for the alfalfa leafcutter bee is heat treatment. Use an oven or kiln that is made to circulate heat. Heating nesting material to 93 degrees Celsius will kill chalkbrood spores.

*Bleach treatment*

For this treatment, you will need bleach or sodium hypochlorite at a five-per cent strength. Dilute 100ml of bleach in 2000ml of water then spray or dip the nest boxes and other equipment in the bleach solution to kill off spores.

Replacement of the queen and the combs

Requeening and replacing the comb is a good treatment option for honeybees. Burning the comb is recommended by some beekeepers as a safe way to ensure the fungus is eradicated. The requeening process should introduce a stronger and more resilient brood population.


----------



## bushpilot

I just got home from a 4 week trip. Too late to inspect the hives, but I walked around and looked at them.

One hive has this on the landing board.









And this on the tray on the screened bottom board.









I am pretty sure it is chalkbrood. Right before I left on my trip, I added boxes, and I suspect I didn't notice old chalkbrood on one or more older frames when I added them.

Tomorrow I will check, and clean things up. Any other sure as to what this is, or what to do about it?

I forgot to mention, the flow was just beginning when I put the boxes on and left on my trip, and I suppose it is continuing now.


----------



## wildbranch2007

yup that's chalkbrood


----------



## bushpilot

Checked the hive today, and it seems they have pretty much cleaned it up already. There was no "chalk" in the combs, just what was ittong on the bottle board.

I cleaned that up, and removed the entrance reducer, and am hoping that will be the end of it.


----------



## squarepeg

i can see why they call it chalkbrood. i've not seen, nor even heard of it occuring here in northeast alabama. 

what do you do for it, how did you 'clean it up'?


----------



## Gray Goose

bushpilot said:


> Right before I left on my trip, I added boxes


if the added boxes had old brood or were from a dead out, the combs may have had old partially raised brood.
could just be what they cleaned out.

GG


----------



## bushpilot

Gray Goose said:


> if the added boxes had old brood or were from a dead out, the combs may have had old partially raised brood.
> could just be what they cleaned out.
> 
> GG


I am thinking this the most likely scenario.


----------



## bushpilot

squarepeg said:


> i can see why they call it chalkbrood. i've not seen, nor even heard of it occuring here in northeast alabama.
> 
> what do you do for it, how did you 'clean it up'?


All I did was brush out the "chalk" that was accumulated on the bottom. The bees did the rest.


----------



## squarepeg

bushpilot said:


> All I did was brush out the "chalk" that was accumulated on the bottom. The bees did the rest.


understood and many thanks for sharing with us bp. 

michael palmer mentioned having issues with chalk some years back, that he brought in some new genetics, and hasn't seen it since.

is this something you see a little bit of in most years, or is it more rare than that?


----------



## bushpilot

I have never seen chalkbrood in the form that this hive presented, with the "chalk" thrown out on the 🛬 board. I have seen it in winter deadouts, but the chalk was in the cells. Chalkbrood is normally associated with moisture, which is why ventilation helps.

It seems like something the bees can deal with themselves, if they are given a decent chance. That seems to have happened here.

Considering that we are in summer, I suspect this case was a beekeeper error, meaning I likely put a frame of chalkbrood in the hive, and they took care of it.


----------



## crofter

bushpilot said:


> I have never seen chalkbrood in the form that this hive presented, with the "chalk" thrown out on the 🛬 board. I have seen it in winter deadouts, but the chalk was in the cells. Chalkbrood is normally associated with moisture, which is why ventilation helps.
> 
> It seems like something the bees can deal with themselves, if they are given a decent chance. That seems to have happened here.
> 
> Considering that we are in summer, I suspect this case was a beekeeper error, meaning I likely put a frame of chalkbrood in the hive, and they took care of it.


I have heard of it becoming generalized in an area so I suspect that particular fungus does not have that simple a cure. There have been many pictures of very moldy dead out comb being given to bees with good outcomes. Perhaps a common garden variety of mold. The spores of chalkbrood specific fungus can survive for 15 years. 

I have seen a few mummies in nucs I have used and it disappeared, but never had to deal with it widespread in a number of colonies.


----------



## Gray Goose

crofter said:


> I have heard of it becoming generalized in an area so I suspect that particular fungus does not have that simple a cure. There have been many pictures of very moldy dead out comb being given to bees with good outcomes. Perhaps a common garden variety of mold. The spores of chalkbrood specific fungus can survive for 15 years.
> 
> I have seen a few mummies in nucs I have used and it disappeared, but never had to deal with it widespread in a number of colonies.


Hi Frank
not sure it relates, but I was at a place to set up couple NUCs this person bought from me.
there were other hives, 2 had chalk brood on the ground in front of them.
I asked the type of bee.
"buckfast NUCs" was the answer.

just a data point.
perhaps some bees have better bacteria in their sweat for the bee bread than others.
dont know

GG


----------



## crofter

Gray Goose said:


> Hi Frank
> not sure it relates, but I was at a place to set up couple NUCs this person bought from me.
> there were other hives, 2 had chalk brood on the ground in front of them.
> I asked the type of bee.
> "buckfast NUCs" was the answer.
> 
> just a data point.
> perhaps some bees have better bacteria in their sweat for the bee bread than others.
> dont know
> 
> GG


The nucs in question came from southern ontario. The queens in that bunch were supposedly Chilean. I asked the fellow what kind of queens they were and he said "Honey bee queens"! They actually worked out OK but I did requeen with Szabo 70/30% Carniolan/Italian towards the end of summer.

This year my bees would be a mix of the Buckfast from Fergusons and now mixed with Szabo. Either one is super nice to work. As to their big picture tolerance to various disease, I couldnt hazard a guess. Too short a time and too small a sample. Had one hive weak this spring and a bit messed up brood that I thought might be a touch of chilled brood. That is probably the start of the Sacbrood. Hindsight tells me that the bit of brood swapping and combining I did was not the best plan Duh!
Anyways things appear to be well on the mend. Next season, if there is anything left to work with, will show more of the effects of the buckfast drones.
It really is not easy to do a well controlled and definitive study on any concept with bees. The old confirmation bias and intuition plays havoc with objectivity.


----------



## missgeneralidea

crofter said:


> The link below is in regard to Chalkbrood infection on nesting materials but the methods also apply to honey bee equipment.
> 
> Chalkbrood in Honeybees and Leafcutter Bees • Ecrotek
> 
> *Heat treatment*
> 
> The safest option for the alfalfa leafcutter bee is heat treatment. Use an oven or kiln that is made to circulate heat. Heating nesting material to 93 degrees Celsius will kill chalkbrood spores.
> 
> *Bleach treatment*
> 
> For this treatment, you will need bleach or sodium hypochlorite at a five-per cent strength. Dilute 100ml of bleach in 2000ml of water then spray or dip the nest boxes and other equipment in the bleach solution to kill off spores.
> 
> Replacement of the queen and the combs
> 
> Requeening and replacing the comb is a good treatment option for honeybees. Burning the comb is recommended by some beekeepers as a safe way to ensure the fungus is eradicated. The requeening process should introduce a stronger and more resilient brood population.



Hey @crofter 
I changed the entire boxes this weekend and I do have access to a kiln and will heat treat the equipment today. I wonder how long we leave them in the kiln for? Also, I wonder if it's you do both methods or just one method is fine.

I moved all the bees into new equipment but I left the honey frames right beside the hive for the bees to rob them out. I brunt all the brood with a blow torch and left the frames to be scrapped off, plastic foundation thrown away and the heat treated. Its been a few days and will check on the soon. I will be doing extracting some honey from other hives and will use some of the built comb from other hives in the new reset hive. Unfortunately, I only had new frames and they are literally starting from scratch.

Hope this works.

Thanks aging for everyone's support.


----------



## squarepeg

missgeneralidea, many thanks for starting this important thread and contributing from canada.

given the importance and relevance of the topic, i am going to move your thread to the 'diseases and pests' subforum and stick it so that it will remain topped in that subforum's list of threads.

good job.


----------



## squarepeg

with two really good threads on chalkbrood, started by miss generalidea and bushpilot respectively, and both of them have very relevant information on chalkbrood, i thought it would be good to combine them and sticky them. the idea being it would be a good one stop shop for someone researching chalkbrood.

in retrospect i think i should have left them separate threads and stickied them both. but there not a way to put it back like it was. sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Jack Grimshaw

Just a note.
Bacterial (AFB,EFB) and fungal(chalkbrood) bee diseases can be spread by honey so if you suspect disease,do not put frames out for robbing!!

Just learned last week that it is illegal in Mass to create a robbing situation by placing out honey and extracting equipment.
See download,sec 8.03





330 CMR 8.00: Apiary inspection regulations


330 CMR 8.00 clarifies how apiculture is governed pursuant to M.G.L. c. 128.




www.mass.gov





Recent research from Cornell has determined the presence of virus in honey and comb but the jury is still out on whether or not the virus is still viable.
It has also been determined that virus can infect bees that hygienically remove infected larvae(can't recall citation at the moment)


----------



## Michael Bush

> What else can I do to eradicate this problem?


The actual cause is low temperature in the brood nest combined with poor hygienic behavior. But both of these are often genetic. Requeening is what I would recommend but also space management. Bees spread too thin is often the cause of chilled brood and chilled brood is often the cause of Chalkbrood.



https://www.spc.int/lrd/ext/Disease_Manual_Final/chalkbrood.html




https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Francisco_Padilla3/publication/41699829_Effect_of_temperature_and_humidity_of_sealed_brood_on_chalkbrood_development_under_controlled_conditions/links/53fda6b50cf2dca800036606.pdf










Development of Chalk Brood in a Honeybee Colony: A Review


Published in Bee World (Vol. 63, No. 3, 1982)



www.tandfonline.com






https://hal.inria.fr/file/index/docid/891230/filename/hal-00891230.pdf




http://www.mycologia.org/content/97/6/1171.short




http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00218839.1987.11100758#.VzSAqoQrJhE










In vitro evaluation of sugar syrups, antibiotics, and miticides on growth of honey bee pathogen, Ascosphaera apis: Emphasis for chalkbrood prevention is on keeping bees healthy - Apidologie


To examine the link between chalkbrood and treatments applied to honey bee (Apis mellifera) colonies, growth of Ascosphaera apis was determined under chalkbrood-inducing conditions on agar containing crushed bee larvae as a mock infection. Treatments were tested at concentrations in the field...




link.springer.com






http://revistas.inia.es/index.php/sjar/article/viewArticle/63







Chalkbrood Fungal Infection as a Signal of Health-Related Problems, Poor Nutrition, and Distress in Honey Bee Colonies


Larvae of the honey bee (Apis mellifera) can get infected and killed by the fungus Ascosphaera apis, which consumes the larva from inside out, then dries, creating a mummy, so-called chalkbrood. A warm or chilling shock to the brood accentuates the disease. Recently, beekeepers have reported...




digitalcommons.butler.edu


----------



## squarepeg

Michael Bush said:


> The actual cause is low temperature in the brood nest combined with poor hygienic behavior.


many thanks michael , and that makes sense.

would you add high humidity to that list, and if yes, are upper entrances or upper vents helpful in those climes where moisture is an issue?


----------



## crofter

The hive conditions mentioned are the *enabling* conditions but the cause is a specific organizm; _The causative agent of chalkbrood disease is *Ascosphaera apis*, a fungus that affects 3-4 day old larvae and is spread through the ingestion of spores._

Semantics perhaps.


----------



## Michael Bush

I'm sure humidity is one contributing factor, but bees need humidity to get the eggs to hatch and raise the larvae...


----------



## Litsinger

Saw this article in this month's ABJ and thought of this tread.


----------

