# NEW Top Bar Hive (Vita Hive)



## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Hello my name is Tommy,

I have been working on this concept for a couple of months, rough sketches,drawn plans for dimensional uses, 3d model to work out the engineering problems and finnaly the building process. I will be posting pictures of the 3d model and the final beehive in my yard 

I still have time to make modifications if needed, my primary goal is to go through the concept with you guys to nit pick at it and make sure it's ok..

But please note I had the material, equipment and also hands on skill to do this project it might be considered over the top for the "producers/farmers" with that said I only want the one hive for personal uses. the production cost would be too much. most of this material was on hand, it cost me around 300$ (115$ for 6 of the glass I did not cut myself, 40$ish for Caulking/glues and around 150$ for the Cedar T&G planks and shigles for the roof) all the rest of the wood was sawmilled by my father several years ago, and I had to plane, rip, glue, nail and cut all these from rough lumber.

-100% Cedar
- 40 Top Bars
- Inner / Outer core
- Glass Tops (Double Pane)
- 2" Insulation (Used the shavings from the planing)
- 2" Insulated blanket for glass tops (100% Hemp stuffed with Cedar shavings)

Here are the models iv'e done in 3d















This one is a cut out of my hive to better show the concept for venting and the core.








Here is the completed Vita Hive (you will see I have made a quick box in there to transfer my bees from my langstroth hive to this more easily..)











































sorry about the long post.. guess after all that work it's show time 

Thanks in advance
Tommy
Terra Vita


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Very nice work, but what is the purpose of the glass? Do the top bars butt together? Is that some kind of divider board in there? John


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

The glass serves for observation mostly, there will be a insulated blanket on top to cast out light, the bars do butt to eachother, it's a langstroth hybrid like bar  the bees enter over the bars should help for venting.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

ok, so there is a bee space between the bars just like in a Lang hive? What are those divider boards inside, or am I not seeing something right?


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

There is a divider board to increase the size of the hive, so it's easier for them to heat/cool, and if your talking about the middle part, that is temporary to transfer my bees from my existing langstroth hive to this, basicaly I can take 6 lang frames and put them in here to strart it off.. it should basically be all top bars after I introduce my bees in there..


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Terra Vita, ok now I understand. That would be cool to actually watch the bees coming into the hive and walking across the tops of the bars before they go down between the combs. Just hope the bee space is accurate between the glass and the top bars. The insulation on top of the glass will be a must during the winter, otherwise you could get condensation forming on the glass and dripping down on the cluster. I'm still not sure that wouldn't happen anyways, the glass won't absorb any moisture obviously. John


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Glad to see your interested.

They have exactly 3/4" from the top of the bars to the glass "roof" I think the key will be monitoring the entrance, That's why i've made it from Lang dimensions mmm.15" by 3/4" I think, so my hive accepts entrance reducers, and by having a "entrance"/"vent" at the very top most of the humid hot air should be exausted easily.. well I hope . also, it was fairly difficult to keep everything perfectly precise with so many pieces, so between the glass tops there are little cracks which should also help evacuate some humidity, that why the hemp/cedar blanket is there, they are both rot resistant and ?breathable? sorry i'm actually french so i'm may be uncertain of pronouciation etc..

Tommy


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Tommy,

Is that a hinged door down below for a mite tray to slide into? I did the same thing on my top bar hives. I assume you have a screen bottom? How do you keep the hive from tipping over when you open the roof up, looks like alot of weight with that roof? I am really impressed with what you have built, I thought my top bar hives were over the top, you got me beat! John


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Terra Vita said:


> Glad to see your interested.They have exactly 3/4" from the top of the bars to the glass "roof" y


If the hive gets crowded that 3/4" will make for some mean burr comb.


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Your right John the bottom board can slide out for cleaning purposes, it is not screened for mites. the roof is incredibly light, it's all cedar, trusses are 3/4" by 1" I believe and the planks are 5/16" Tong and groove, and well the cedar shingles are light as well.

I also was very carefull on how far the roof holds itself so it doesnt try to pull the whole thing on ground, also the legs will be screwed in concrete that is pinned to the rock (good ole canadian shield).

i'd like to take a look at your hive you have any pictures John, I might of seen it i've been taking bits and pieces from everything i could find that seems to work.


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Hi Frank

I tryed to replicate the size I had on my slatted rack on my Langstroth hive, also that's what lang uses from top cover to frames I think and it rarely happens, but It's all possible, I also added the bottom entrance/vent that I have reducers for busy season or screened for venting like a cold trap.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Terra Vita said:


> my primary goal is to go through the concept with you guys to nit pick at it and make sure it's ok..


Once you get bees in it, they'll nit pick it and you'll know what things you did right, and what things you wish you would have done differently!


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

Beautiful hive in an overcomplicated way. After you have bees in it for a while, can you update us on how you get the 
glass panels open after the bees propolize them down. I don't see anything good to pry against to get them open.
Something to look ahead for.


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## Heartspark (Mar 18, 2011)

I don't know much about TBH, going to build me "cheap" version this weekend. But what is that ceder shavings for on edge in picture #8? You say insulation, but how come most cheap built ones don't opt for it? Is it really a issue in cold climate, or you just taking the "better safe than sorry" approach? 

I would think adding insulation would be counterproductive with the bees making own heat in it the moisture buildup, like when heat is on in a house and the windows fog up. Again, not a expert or anything on this


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## cryptobrian (Jan 22, 2012)

Not having bees yet and so not know what works and what doesn't, I'll only comment on one thing ... it's beautiful! Looks like some really nice craftsmanship!


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Actually in my opinnion insulation would not be a problem, houses these days have Vapour barriers "Sealing" the house and I think that's a big problem, I like the path of insulating while keeping breathability (if that's even a word ) so moisture can escape while still trapping most of the heat/cool. they key is venting and moving air around, that's why i opted for 2 entrances/vents, one completely on top and one completely at the bottom, should be easy for the bees to evacuate the hot moist air.. but that is all to be tested still 

Insulation should help them overwinter because they wont need to create excessive heat to stay warm hence saving precious honey stores, and even in the summer a well insulated house keeps the hot outside and makes it easy to regulate tempurtures inside... I just went with the shavings because they were all over the garage when I was working the wood, why waste it plus I dont like the extruded foam made with all kinds of chemicals. those seal vapour inside which may lead to problems.

also most people try to keep the cost down so insulation would only be an extra cost to a hive..

Tommy


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

cryptobrian said:


> it's beautiful! Looks like some really nice craftsmanship!


Thank you Brian I appreciate the comment, it's been a long and enjoyable process..

Tommy


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Steven Ogborn said:


> After you have bees in it for a while, can you update us on how you get the
> glass panels open after the bees propolize them down. I don't see anything good to pry against to get them open.
> Something to look ahead for.


This is exactly why I came to this forum, Soo much knowledge and experience. I'm trying to brainstorm ideas of how I could get around it if they stick the bars to the tops.
-one I could open the next top and kinda work from there to unglue or hold down the bars whie I pry the top off but that would be very inconvenient.
-maybe a flashing on the tops that would make it harder for the bees to properly stick them together making easyer to simply pull the tops off..
-maybe move the tops sidways first to tear the seal they made could also work..

what do you guys think?

Here is a picture of the tops sitting on the "guide" and the bars siting against it...









Tommy


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## Heartspark (Mar 18, 2011)

Terra Vita said:


> Actually in my opinnion insulation would not be a problem,


Ok i see the point you are making, but with top/bottom screened, insulation should not really matter since hot air is moving out the top and cold air in the bottom. With lang hives, they wrap them i read to winterize them because they don't actually have a problem with cold air coming in bottom since sitting near ground its the cold wind they worry about(depending on situation) but with top bar hive always elevated its more prominent. 

Don't get me wrong, its a awesome build! I'm jealous  I'm just thinking out loud when i look at the pictures is all, and how lots of hives i see looks like they are to "open" designs. I don't think the bees actually benefit from insulation on the side and open bottom.


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

While browsing around if found this interesting fact.
Ill quote from the Warre Store, The idea of "insulated blanket/Quilt filled with sawdust" isnt new it's meant to mimic a natural occurence in a tree.

_" Speaking of moisture, let's examine the Warré hive's unique quilt and roof combination. While Langstroth hives are highly dependent on ventilation to prevent excess moisture build-up and condensation, the Warré uses a sawdust filled quilt, which allows for very slow air movement through the hive while temporarily absorbing moisture and then dispersing it to the outside through the roof assembly. The whole idea behind the quilt is that it mimics the top of a tree cavity; soft, decomposing wood that allows moisture to easily leave the hive without condensing into droplets "_

either way I can't wait to see if it will cause problems, if it does i might need to simply build them out of wood with maybe smaller glass observation windows in them.


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

Tommy

That looks fantastic and way over the top. I expect the complete secondary enclosure will help them keep warm and doubt condensation will be an issue since you have double pane glass. I would go as is and watch.

Thanks


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

I thought of a way to minimize the chance of the bees glueing my top bars to my tops where the meet together, I'll just bend a couple of flashing to cover the edge and that should give them almost nothing to glue on.. I'll try that today maybe and update you guys with a picture maybe..


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

I mix melted beeswax with olive oil until, when cooled to room temperature, it reaches about the consistency of Crisco/Vegetable Shortening/Rendered Lard. My wife & I originally invented this substance as a hand salve (the tiniest amount of it works GREAT to smooth & soothe dry, cracking skin), but it also works quite well, used in VERY conservative amounts, for "lubricating" things you don't want the bees to stick together. You can mix it a little thicker, so it'll still be "solid" enough to not stick to the bees as they walk on it, but "soft" enough for you to easily break the seal, and the propolis shouldn't affect this property any.


Good luck, and post some pics with bees in there, I want to see the pretty hive, with a big, pretty colony inside!


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Rob, That is a great idea, we make salves as well but never thought of using that for this...I will definately try that.

Thank you!

Tommy
Terra Vita


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## RAFAEL/PR (Feb 23, 2012)

tommy , your hive is just plain awesome, love the design , i have a engineering back ground from school and i could tell you , it hads to be one of the best design i seen so far, im new to beekeeping and i decided to go top bar , i think the langstroth hive disturb the bees too much. by taking it apart, if the top bar could take nomal 19 inch frame then i think it way better then a langstroth behive , going to base my top bar to yours with a few mods of my own, keep posting those pictures , i also want to see it with bees, good luck , =)


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

I know nothing about top bar hives but I have to say that is the most extravagant one I have ever seen. I wish I had your woodworking skills!


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## tweezerbeak (Aug 7, 2011)

looks awesome.....keep bees in it for a year ...work out kinks and then market it.....it looks cool...mine are very simple and humble.....good luck with it.....market it to an upscale niche and you may be on to something...


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks again for the encouragements and support, I opted out to remove the "insulated blanket" from the design and actually insulate the first 2 inches of the attic for ease and simplicity of oppenning up the hive and not having to find a spot to drop the bulky thing on the ground  ill post a picture tomorow, I also added a support at the back of my roof to hold it upwards without the need of the 2 chains, the front one was obstructing my first glass top, making it difficult to squeeze through. Other then that I used some lemon grass oil diluted in hot water and soaked the tips of my top bar briefly, waiting for a swarm to come or just having it ready for my bees if something goes wrong with my langstroth hive they will have somewhere to go.

My only hive seems ok, trees are blooming finnaly and the bees are hauling nectar and pollen, and they did a nice clean up of the hive, but It's still a little chilly some are getting chilled just outside the hive, so I'm waiting a bit to actually inspect it and keep an eye on it for the BIG day when they get there new home..

Thanks again everyone, Ill keep you posted and I'm glad the second enclosure maybe inspired a couple of people, I'm sure een in very hot climate they would enjoy them. they work hard enough maybe it's time we make an effort.

Sincerely,
Tommy
Terra Vita


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

I took some pictures this morning and here they are, 2 show the "stopper" I made to hold the roof from toppling over after removing the one chain from the way. and the others show how I insulated my Roof
















I used the rafter part of my truss design to staple some hemp fabric on the top most of it making some sort of pocket to fill up, then I thought of the problem of my cedar shavings moving all the way down and not staying in place after oppenning and closing the hive alot, so I added little strips perpendicular to the rafters making smaller pockets, Obviously I took the whole roof off to do this, then packed it with shavings and then added another layer of hemp fabric to hold everything in place giving me about 1 1/2" of insulation, I chose the hemp fabric for it's breathability and rot resistance, hope that helps..

















Tommy
Terra Vita


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

A beauty of a hive, just beautiful. I bought a simple TBH and modified it to have a screened bottom board with cover and slot to slide sticky plastic into. I put two 8x12 covered windows in one side, next time I will mount them across from each other. Bees due in from CA next week, very late but Chinese Tallow, our big nectar producer, comes into bloom now. Here near Houston and the Gulf we have very mild winters so not much insulation needed. Venting has to be controlled to remove moisture without cooling the nest to much. I am sure everybody has that problem.


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

*Update on vita hive!!*

UPDATE on my Vita Hive, I got caught and had to put my bees in earlyer then I wanted...I could not find my queen in my Lang and there were queen cells.. So I had to hurry and get to it...

My original plan was to move my queen and 6 of my best lang frames in my top bar hive.. and have an them make comb on my bars then move the queen to the other side of my excluder...
But now I could not locate her, so I decided to take the best 6 frames I could including some queen cells to have her be born in my top bar hive(in my lang transition box).. So I had to remove the excluder to let her take her first flight..

Here is what's happening...

you can see the transition box on the right where I have my lang frames with my bees.. and my top bars on the left where they have to travel to get out..








Since I dont have my exlcuder anymore they have been building comb at the entrance between the transition box and the top bar hive..









So I took advantage of them building comb in my reach...















Here are the ones from the 2 last days, Iv'e been cleanning it up and attaching them on my top bars, They are gluing them already and have made there own also..





























and here is what is bringing me back to ask questions.. I thought they were queeless about a week ago.. I could not locate her... So I went to bed nervous thinking I had a laying worker..
The day after I checked and I found no queen but ALOT of eggs and larva and none had multiple eggs in a single cell. so I decided to give them more time.. and Today I checked and this is what I saw...












































In your oppinion is my hive queen right, It looks as though the capped cells would be for worker bees which would mean it cannot be a laying worker..right?

So now I'm just trying to let them build enough comb on my top bars and straight at that. and soon I will have to locate the queen and move her to the top bar side and put my excluder between the top bar side and the old lang frames stopping her from laying in there again and forcing the bees to move with her so they have time to build up before winter, because I assume keeping the lang frames which are in a different alignment would give them a hard time to move back in there for honey if they dont have time to do enough on my top bars....

Am I on the right track?


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## Che Guebuddha (Feb 4, 2012)

jmgi said:


> The insulation on top of the glass will be a must during the winter, otherwise you could get condensation forming on the glass and dripping down on the cluster. I'm still not sure that wouldn't happen anyways, the glass won't absorb any moisture obviously. John


Check what D. Murrell observed;
http://beenatural.wordpress.com/observations/condensation/

Terra Vita nice work me man, nice work


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

very interesting article, I assume that my opening might need to be regulated a bit more then just to make sure I don't ventilate the hot humid air too quickly


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## Che Guebuddha (Feb 4, 2012)

More on condensation, humidity, hive atmosphere in Ed.H.Clark free pdf book Constructive Beekeeping

Kind regards, Che


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