# Queen excluder too small?



## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Remove it 
Let the bees do as they need 
you all will be happy


Tommyt


----------



## MDS (Jan 9, 2011)

If you started out with no drawn comb in the super, leave the excluder off until they start building comb in the super then add the excluder and you will see a big difference in the number of bees in the super. I've not found an issue with wrong size slots in excluder. Takes a lot of bees in the hive before they move up to supers. 

Bet ya most of the issues people have with them not building out in the honey supers is *because they don't have a strong enough colony and there is no nector flow*.

I've seen the queen go past two frames of capped honey to get to a frame above to lay eggs in. The wall of honey will not always stop the queen. Which would be a good reason to run all the same size frame so you could move the brood around in case you find it in a honey super that had no excluder. I don't run all the same size frames for brood and supers but other do. All mediums would be the way I'd go if I did not use a queen excluder. Because you are going to have brood in your honey super you can't extract.

I like your idea for a top entrance. I just prop up my inner and outer cover at times.


----------



## beyondthesidewalks (Dec 1, 2007)

Sometimes some of us find that queen excluders are also bee excluders.


----------



## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I like to call them honey excluders, and no I didn't invent or coin that phrase, but doesn't it make sense that you are adding one more obstacle to the bees ability to make and store honey. I've had the queen lay in 1/3 of the super next to the brood nest. No problem just move it up chase the queen down and the brood will hatch and they will fill it with honey. If you want you could add the excluder at this time to keep her from moving back up. But if you put an undrawn super on she will not come back up. Thats what I did. By this time there should be brood hatched in the brood chamber for her to lay in. Just be glad that she is a dedicated layer. And, yes some bees can be too large to get thru the excluder.


----------



## Daniel Wasson (Jun 2, 2010)

MDS said:


> I've seen the queen go past two frames of capped honey to get to a frame above to lay eggs in. The wall of honey will not always stop the queen.


I would be interested in the circumstances surrounding your observation of this. Not that I don't believe what you are saying, but I can not think of a situation where this would be a normal or usual occurrence.


----------



## MDS (Jan 9, 2011)

Daniel Wasson said:


> I would be interested in the circumstances surrounding your observation of this. Not that I don't believe what you are saying, but I can not think of a situation where this would be a normal or usual occurrence.


Not sure what made her do it such as no other place to lay eggs (this is standard hive). Another in my bee club reported the same thing, her going past a honey supper to lay eggs.. I had not manipulated the frames before that either so no way the queen was on a frame and I dropped her in there. 

In my observation hive (eight frame) the queen went past one deep frame of capped honey to the one above and layed in it. As I don't move those frames I'm not sure what is on the inside of the frames in terms of brood area or honey. It's possible in that case the opposite side of the frame was brood. The frame she layed in was recently drawn out comb and had nector in it and then shortly latter they had moved the nector and she layed in the center. The observation hive is packed full of bees with a lot of them hanging out above the uppermost frame. I'll get a picture of it as soon as the camera will get the larva in focus.

I've not had any problems with putting on a super of undrawn comb and as soon as they start drawing comb, putting the excluder on after checking for the queen.


----------



## tnmx (Jan 23, 2009)

beyondthesidewalks said:


> Sometimes some of us find that queen excluders are also bee excluders.


Dont forget honey excluders.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I suspect the bees stuck in the excluder are drones.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Daniel Wasson said:


> I would be interested in the circumstances surrounding your observation of this.


Commonly happens, I believe, when a colony swarms and the newly mated queen comes back to the top of the hive. Otherwise, I can't really imagine why that would happen. Tain't natchrul.

Me too Adrian. My first thought. Has to be the case. Excluders are just about the only peice of equipment that uses exact standard dimensions in their production. Otherwise, they wouldn't work.


----------



## MDS (Jan 9, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Commonly happens, I believe, when a colony swarms and the newly mated queen comes back to the top of the hive. Otherwise, I can't really imagine why that would happen. Tain't natchrul.


Not wanting to hijack thread but wanted to add that might very well be possible. 

You reminded me that I've started putting a 3/4 inch piece of wood, propping up both the inner and outer cover, to allow a larger top entrance over undrawn supers of foundation. Makes since. I've found a lot of bees hanging out on the inside corners of boxes when I do this. Seems to help getting bees to move to the honey supers that have undrawn foundation. Perhaps a newly mated queen returned to the hive using that top entrance. I had not checked the brood area below so no idea they would have been raising a new queen.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

A queen will cross honey to get to drone comb in the supers, if she doesn't have enough in the brood chamber.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We do not see problems with bees crossing excluders, and find them one of the most valuable tools in keeping bees, by keeping the queen where you want her. Colony strength is important. WE can not comprehend why some one would not want to use them.

Crazy Roland


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

We had a long cold wet spring this year and the bees were obviously not crossing the excluder as they usually do, leading to honey clogged brood chambers and massive swarming in our area.


----------



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

od they were swarming without the excluders on as well.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Tom G. Laury said:


> od they were swarming without the excluders on as well.


Good to know, guess I won't give away all my excluders like I did 30 years ago believing an article I read in a journal. 
When I saw them stalling at the excluder, I let several hives get honey supers first below the excluder and that seemed to help. I added a third brood chamber to some and they swarmed even with all that space. You can't win.


----------



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Swarm O Rama this Spring! We certainly did our part to repopulate the tree hollows and houses with knotholes didn't we? 

I call excluders my Labor Saving Devices.


----------

