# First stings delayed reaction



## Sheila

Hello all,

Easter weekend my mom and I got our first packages and installed them. We didn't have much of a problem installing them besides the 3 (well deserved) stings I got. I didn't have much of a reaction to the stings at first. I was actually relieved at how little it actually hurt. Exactly a week later one of the spots I got stung swelled up, turned red, and itched extremely bad! At the time I figured I had a spider bite or something. The next day the 2 other spots did the same thing and that's when I realized it must have had something to do with the bee stings. My mom also got stung once that day but she didn't have any reaction at all.

So, my questions is, has anyone else had this happen? Should I be concerned?

Thanks all,

Sheila


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## pokerman11

Bee venom reacts differently on different people. Generaly it's not a major issue - but you have to judge for yourself what to do and when to seek medical help.

I've never had a delayed reaction, but it could have been some type of reaction you body had to healing - Itching is VERY normal in healing. - are you sure you got all the stinger out? Perhaps a a bit of it was stuck in there and as it dissolved caused the delay.

I like Benadryl gel locally applied the best.


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## JYawn

Sheila, I'm no doctor (so take it as normal advice from a friend) but I wouldn't worry to much if this is the only reaction you had. 

If you had immediate swelling or other form of reaction I would worry, but a whole week later is probably just some skin irritation. I've had similar reactions myself before. Not honey bee stings but other insects. It wouldn't bother me until days later and then it was just very itchy.

Immediate reactions are the things you want to be very cautious of. I think you'll be fine


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## robherc

Being someone who's allergic (to a degree) to bee stings, and a (former) medical professional, I can calm your worst fears by saying "that's not an allergic reaction." That said, if those were your first stings, it could be an indication that you're going to be allergic next time you get stung. When your body is exposed to a foreign substance (ex: honeybee venom) for the first time, it reacts very minimally, as you don't yet have any antigens towards this substance (i.e. same as with a vaccination, your body "learns" to respond by creating specific "trigger" molecules that'll target that substance next time, causing an immune response). The next time (and every time thereafter) your body is exposed to the same foreign substance, your immune system is "ready for it" and, if you were predisposed to develop an allergy to that substance, your immune system now goes into "fight mode" attacking the substance that it believes to be a threat to your health. This immune response, depending on the reaction time, is what is called an allergic response (immediate immunological overresponse to a non-pathogenic foreign body/substace) and, if systemic &/or strong enough, can be life threatening. I'll cut myself off here, rather than going into modification of immune responses, etc...

With your reaction a week later to the 3 stings you received, I'd venture a guess that that may be from your body forming antibodies to the bee venom, and, as such, be a warning that your reaction to the next sting could be far worse  (or, it could not...nothing's certain with such highly variable things as immunology). My recommendation: SEE YOUR DOCTOR, ask him/her if they think you should carry an EPI-PEN and a reaction kit (often includes special sting-remover tweezers, 1-2 epi-pens, and systemic antihistamine pills) with you in the future, in case your next sting elicits a severe response.inch:

Good luck, and happy (SAFE) beekeeping
-Rob


*Medical Caveat*: I am neither a doctor, nor a (currently) licensed medical professional. As such, the above information is presented as my personal opinion only, and under no circumstances should it be taken as medical advice or instruction. Anyone wanting medical advice, instruction, or direction, should consult with a medical professional who is licensed to practice in your area.
A good "rule of thumb" to follow concerning any type of medical issue is: *If you have doubts, or are concerned, CALL YOUR DOCTOR!* That's your doctor's job, and only your doctor knows enough about your body to give you qualified advice.


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## lenny bee

You might want to go to , American Apitherapy Society. They have all you need to know about bee venom and the good things that come from it as well.You can also order an epic pen from them. I always keep one around just in case,for visitors.


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## Foreststalker

I like to have Wounded Warrior Ointment on hand for bee stings.


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## Tom B

For me, stings can be different depending on where I am stung. Stings to the hands and fingers usually just itch. "Up the sleeve" stings do swell up more, maybe because I don't feel them right away and I am getting more venom?

I keep some benadryl cream in my tool kit. I am going to ask my Dr for an epi-pen this year, as I sometimes have other people along with me when I do hive inspections, and you never know who might be allergic (even though it is a small % of population overall).


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## DPLONG

Sometimes a sting site on my body will get really itchy around day 3. It doesn't happen all the time, usually on my inner upper arm or anywhere there is softer tissue. I don't have any immediate reactions, just the itching 2 to 3 days later and sometimes it really sucks. Make sure you get the stingers out and I would carry and epipen just in case. I always have one in my truck.


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## Sheila

Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to call my Doctor and get myself an epi-pen just in case. I also am not going to be alone with the bees any time soon. I am allergic to a few things that cause severe reaction such as hives so I suppose this could be cause for concern. I know for sure I got all the stingers out so that wasn't an issue for me. I guess it's better to be safe then sorry.  Thanks again!


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## Aerindel

I'm work for the ambulance and our protocol for allergic reactions is to only use epi if there are breathing difficulties or a severe drop in blood pressure. But thats just us, you should probably be more cautious. We do, however, get a lot of calls for people that have taken epi for a suspected allergy before they had any symptoms of any kind and earned themselves a thousand dollar ambulance bill for a problem that may not exist.

For milder reactions we use oral Benadryl. Benadryl is very effective but slow to act, 30 min minium as opposed to epi which works in seconds. Benadryl is great to use for minor histamine reactions but will kick in far too late to save you for a true allergic reaction.

Something to remember is that epi is only effective for about 15 to twenty minutes. If the ambulance is farther than that away you may need more than one pen and strongly consider taking a does of benadryl as soon as possible so it can have a chance to kick in around the same time the epi is wearing off.

The thing to remember is not to panic if you get stung. Allergic reactions, even bad ones are almost never as dramatic as you see on TV.

Even a sever reaction will take a few minutes to develop. Look for dizziness, nausea, pale clammy skin and the development of hives on your chest and neck and thighs. You may feel tightness in your chest that can lead to wheezing. Many people report tunnel vision, described as a darkness pressing in from the corners of their vision.

Hives are the surest way to know if you are having an allergic reaction. All the other symptoms can be cause by a panic attack which is common among people who think they have an sting allergy. *Remember hives are the most reliable indications that you are having a reaction.*

If you are by yourself and have epi you should probably use it as soon as you feel *any* symptoms since by the time they become sever enough to know for sure that you need epi your blood pressure may have dropped so far that your not thinking straight anymore.

If you know for sure that you have an allergy to stings then you should obviously take your epi immediately and call 911. Epi is a pretty amazing drug and can completely reverse the symptoms in less than a minute. You can literally watch the hives fade before your eyes. I've had people who where almost unable to breath before the epi refusing to go on the ambulance five minutes later because they felt "fine".



Personally when I get stung I always get an immediate welt that fades away in about half an hour and then usually about 24 hours later I get swelling and itching, kind of like a giant mosquito bite that fades over a few days.

I don't know or not if the benadryl cream does anything for allergic reactions, true allergic reactions are a systemic (body wide) event, its hard to imagine that local cream will do anything other than stop itching, but I don't know for sure, I've never tried to use it that way.


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## LeonardS

I asked my Doctor about an Epi Pen when I had my physical a month ago. He said he couldnt write a prescription for me unless I was allergic to bee venom. How did you get your Doctors to go along with getting you an Epi Pen?


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## NasalSponge

Humm, just told him I was getting back into beekeeping and needed one and he wrote the script.


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## millerwb

As one who has allergies (have for years) and in Moderately Allergic to bees, GET an Epi-Pen. One or two stings and I am fine. Next day, minor swelling at site of sting and itching. A couple of weeks ago, I was using a weed eater (gas) near a very calm hive. They went beserk! I got 12+ stings. Within 20 minutes, my wife had me at the ER (we live 3 minutes away if we catch the red light). Having serious trouble breathing. was thankful to have them very responsive to my condition. Now, Epi-Pen never leaves my pocket. Better safe than sorry!


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## robherc

LeonardS said:


> How did you get your Doctors to go along with getting you an Epi Pen?


I told my doctor I react badly to bee stings & asked for a pen...DR wrote script, I picked up pen. I've never heard of a Dr NOT writing a prescription for an Epi-Pen for someone who asked for it before???


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## Quatelmon

My doctor wouldn't write me one. Told me to see an allergist.


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## LetMBee

LeonardS said:


> I asked my Doctor about an Epi Pen when I had my physical a month ago. He said he couldnt write a prescription for me unless I was allergic to bee venom. How did you get your Doctors to go along with getting you an Epi Pen?


I would get a new doctor. I am a pharmacist in Indiana. I have never heard of a doc doing anything like that. I would ask that doctor what you are supposed to do if you have a reaction and don't have an epi-pen?


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## Intheswamp

LetMBee said:


> I would get a new doctor. I am a pharmacist in Indiana. I have never heard of a doc doing anything like that. I would ask that doctor what you are supposed to do if you have a reaction and don't have an epi-pen?


Or ask the Doctor what he's going to do when your widow's lawyers contact him regarding your demise from an allergic reaction to be stings and he *didn't* give you the epi-pen prescription that you asked for??


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## madrona

LeonardS said:


> I asked my Doctor about an Epi Pen when I had my physical a month ago. He said he couldnt write a prescription for me unless I was allergic to bee venom. How did you get your Doctors to go along with getting you an Epi Pen?


If I were you, I'd tell that doctor that I'd just remembered getting stung five years ago and breaking out in hives all over my body. Making up a fake story for the doctor won't have any effect on his future treatment of you, and it might just keep you safe by doing an end-run around his stupid protocol and getting your epipen.


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## LetMBee

I have a pen, and I am not allergic. I have it just in case anyone wants to come along on hive inspections. Very few people are that allergic to bees, in fact I think the fear is over-blown. If it ever does happen you need to be ready. We had a local man get stung two years ago.... He didn't make it to the emergency room. So fib if you need to. It's good to have one around.


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## Aerindel

> Making up a fake story for the doctor won't have any effect on his future treatment of you, and it might just keep you safe by doing an end-run around his stupid protocol and getting your epipen.


I understand where you guys are coming from but I can also understand the doctors point of view. Epi is severely over prescribed. For every twenty calls my ambulance we gets for a bee sting reaction one may actually be legitimate. We get a lot more calls for people who accidentally inject themselves with epi and are having problems than people who need it to save there lives. I can understand completely why a doctor wouldn't want to give it out on a "just in case" basis. "Just in case" medications create millions of dollars worth of health care expenses and many deaths every year.

Epi is not without side effects and carries a risk of stroke and cardiac failure. Also, an accidental injection into a finger can cause the blood vessels to severely constrict and often leads to the loss of that finger. I have actually seen this happen with a seven year old boy who got ahold of his mothers epi pen.

Doctors are not in the habit (or should not be!) of giving out any type of prescription for potentially dangerous drugs without a good reason. If you think you need a epi pen rather than lying about your medical history I would talk about the following factors with him.


Family history? if you have a family history of sever allergic reactions it may make you more likely to have one. There is not conclusive evidence for this but it may be enough to convince the doctor.

Where you live? If you live an hour away from the nearest hospital (like I do) that could be a good justification for keeping epi nearby. If you live in town and the nearest ambulance is five minutes away you probably don't need one.

Your personal competence. Insist that you will only use it for emergencies and that you know exactly when and how it should be used.

The other thing to remember is that doctors nurses and EMT's are in the habit of being constantly lied to by our patients. We expect it, and we are trained to detect it and there is a good chance that if you are lying we will figure it out and that WILL effect your future credibility (even though it really shouldn't, but hey, we're human too) If you really want an epi pen then the best course would be to actually follow your doctors advice and go see an allergist. Having one on hand is a good idea, but you really need to know how and when to use it. Its not something to take "just in case."


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## DavidH

I also recently installed packages for the first time. I did it at night with no protection. I didn't expect them to crawl up my legs underneath my pants. The first swipe resulted in a sting. Another bee went down my shirt...another swipe caused another sting. I started learning not to swipe. The third sting was on my arm after I pinched a bee against the box accidentally.

The leg sting swelled up a couple of inches and was painful all night. I woke up if I rolled over and that part of my leg touched the bed. The chest sting and the arm sting swelled less than very small button and were gone in less than an hour.

Tonight I was out releasing the queen and got a quick sting on the hand. No swelling whatsoever, just a little itching an hour and a half later.


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## A10fuelfxr

I agree Aerindel. Epi can be a potentially dangerous drug and I would caution anyone thinking about keeping one around to administer to someone to whom it was not prescribed. Prescription drugs are intended to be taken by only the person receiving the prescription. Just my two cents.


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## robherc

A10fuelfxr said:


> Prescription drugs are intended to be taken by only the person receiving the prescription.


In most states, there are "good samaritan laws" protecting any well-meaning, non-medically-licensed people from being sued for trying to help somebody who gets hurt/sick/whatever. That said, most "good samaritan laws" do NOT cover anything criminal that you do...dispensing prescription medications without a license, or prescription directing it to be used as it was used, on the person it was used on, is (I think) a felony act; which then opens you up to the possibility of both being sued, and going to jail. That said, if it IS an actual "life or death" scenario, sometimes it's worth it to save a life, but I can't make that decision for you, jsut help you be informed about making it yourself.


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## Aerindel

Don't get me wrong, epi is a good drug and can save lives but like all drugs you HAVE to know when to use it, wether you are licensed or not you can be sued for misusing it on another person.

Hypothetically if you have an epi pen and someone else nearby starts having a sever allergic reaction the safest thing to do (legally) is to offer them the pen and inform them that if they use it that it is their responsibility. Its not iron clad legal protection but it will help if it goes to court.

If the person has lost consciousness and you truly feel that this is a life or death situation the very best thing to do is to call your nearest ER and ask for medical control. The 911 dispatcher usually does not have the authority to tell you to use epi. However, asking for medical control will give you a direct line to an ER doctor without any waiting or the usually screwing around. Tell them that the ambulance is on the way and tell them exactly what is happening. Only use this for an absolute medical emergency. This is the red telephone of the hospital that connects directly the highest authority.

Medical control DOES have the authority to instruct you to administer epi even if its for someone other than the prescription is written for. You will be operating under the doctors license and his malpractice insurance which will offer a great deal of protection PROVIDED that you have already called 911 and that you follow the doctors instructions precisely.

The signs and symptoms of a true anaphylactic shock are unmistakeable and it is extremely unlikely that you will be prosecuted for any treatment you provide IF it is indeed shock. Before you consider doing such a thing do everything you can to learn the symptoms and how to distinguish them from a mild reaction or a panic attack.


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## LetMBee

Only beekeepers could turn this into a conversation more anal than a group of pharmacists. Do what ye will. I do not go through my life worrying about good sumaratin laws and felony convictions. I will have to look into it, but at least in Indiana, I don't think you would be looking at a felony. An epi-pen is what is called a "legend drug". Getting caught with that would be about the same as having your grandma's blood pressure medicine. The police are calling all of the time for me to identify pills that they pick up on people. I will ask......

If you don't help someone clearly having an anaphylactic reaction, because you are afraid of "the law", you can live with that. If someone is truely anaphylactic and you are more than 15-20 minutes from medical aid, you can call 911. Let us all know how it works out for you and the poor SOB that you first see turning pink, then blue. I will take my chances.

There is a lot of diversion of medications out there. The police don't have enough resources to keep the controlled medications from being diverted. Epi-pens are going to be low on the totem pole. They are a medication, and you need to not inject the thing in your thumb, but I have known of 8 year olds who carry them everywhere due to sensitive allergies. It's not rocket science.


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## lazy shooter

My son coaches a 12 year old girl that keeps an epipen on her person 24/7 when out doors. As stated above, it must not be rocket science. This is in Texas. There is a group of neighborhood kids that swim in my pool. One of them carries an epipen with him. My yard is saturated with yellowjackets and bees. If he was to go into shock before using the epipen, I will inject him with his epi.


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## Bee Bliss

If I was a parent of a child who needed an epi pen to deal with a life threatening bee sting, I would have them go thru the desensitization process so eventually having that epi pen with them at all times would no longer be necessary.


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## Luterra

The topic of epi-pens comes up on BeeSource fairly regularly, with arguments as to 1) whether it is a good idea to have one if you're not allergic and 2) whether it is OK to use your epi-pen on someone else experiencing an allergic reaction.

I posted this back in February, and it is relevant here:


> The risk of adverse reaction from Epi-Pen injection is relatively low. Of nearly 16,000 accidental Epi-Pen injections reported to poison control centers, about 8% obtained medical treatment (mostly due to injection into a bad location such as a finger). 0.2% reported "severe effects." There was no mention of any fatalities. There have been two reports of direct injection into fingers ultimately requiring amputation due to vasoconstriction, though such effects are very rare even with accidental finger injections.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20159254
> 
> The risk of death from untreated anaphylaxis is quite high, in the sense that 40-50 people die from sting reactions in the US each year. Roughly half of these people had no previous history of reaction, and so likely had no Epi-Pen on hand. Legal issues aside, I would not hesitate to use my pen on someone who was clearly experiencing a reaction.


Epi-pens may suffer from frequent unnecessary/accidental use, but realistically when you give children a sharp object and tell them to carry it at all times, accidents are going to happen. I'm not convinced that there will be a high frequency of unnecessary use among beekeepers. Beekeepers know what a normal sting reaction looks and feels like, and when someone is getting hives (the red, itchy kind) all over or having trouble breathing that is when it's good to have an epi-pen handy and know how to use it.

That said, there is at least one BeeSource member who is hypersensitive to epinephrine, and for whom an epi-pen injection might be as dangerous as anaphylaxis.


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## jwhiteker

Okay Shiela, I just found your post because I searched for "itching bee sting after a week." I am a beginning beekeeper and I was actually already a member here on beesource. Exactly 7 days ago, I received two minor stings through my clothes while doing a huge cut-out of a feral hive by myself which was also my very first experience with any bees, let alone, 20,000 of them. Needless to say, after reading this entire thread, I am now a bit concerned about future stings. I was wondering if you have received stings since and how you reacted when you got them. I wanted to get an epi-pen but they only come in a 2-pack now and they're like $260! For something that saves lives, these things should be free. Anyway, please let me know how your future stings went. Thanks.

- John


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## robherc

John,

The primary use for an epi-pen is to "buy time" until an orally administered dose of benadryl, or other fast-acting antihistamine will take effect. With that said, I personally take benadryl FIRST, before I get into a situation where I am likely to get stung; that way, if I *were* going to have an anaphylactic type reaction, I already have the antihistamine working, so the reaction stays local, and milder.

As a former medical professional, I must ask that you NOT take my opinion, or what I do as medical advice. It's simply what I do myself, as an informed individual; what you do yourself is a personal decision, and should be made in an informed manner, preferably with input from your physician.


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## SRBrooks

Sheila:
Were you ever tested for bee venom allergy? I went to an allergist, got tested, tested negative but was given an epi-pen just to be safe.

Sondra


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## lazy shooter

Dang, It is so impressive that your first ever experience with bees was performing a cut-out. Second, If epi-pens save lives for $260.00, they are dirt cheap. It's still amazing to me that you or anyone else would expect someone to provide you a free epi-pen. Who goes begging so that you can have an epi-pen?

Thirdly, I would at least visit with my family doctor if a bee sting itched for a week. Some of my family members swell and inch for a couple of days, but a week is the longest I have heard of anyone itching from a bee sting. Be careful. Good luck. Congrats of being a rough and rowdy ready to brawl cutout guy.


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## Sheila

John,

I was very worried about it as well after everything I got as a response here. But I love my bees so I went in again of course. I few months later I did get stung again. (I must say I always make sure there is someone nearby when I'm in my hives) that second time I immediately took an antihistamine. I had an initial reaction of the regular itching but nothing more after that. So now I just make sure I have an antihistamine near by and I'm good. I hope that answers your question.


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## Quatelmon

If you tell your doctor you are a beekeeper, they will give you a prescription for an epi pen. Insurance will cover it. My stings always take several weeks to heal completely, but taking benydryl right away helps. Epi pen is for super emergency, someone can't breath,.they need help right away before an ambulance can arrive. Chances are, you will never need an epi pen. Pain does not require am epi pen.


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## jwhiteker

Okay, thanks Shiela. That gives me a little comfort, especially since I will be visiting a commercial apiary this weekend. I'm sure someone will have an epi-pen there, but I really hope I don't have any sort of crazy reaction if I get stung. Good grief, leave it to me to be allergic to my own bees. I was even hoping to do some bee sting therapy for my arthritis.

- Qualtelmon, I would gladly pick up an epi-pen except the health insurance that I have does not cover them at all. It all comes out of my pocket. I will keep looking to see if I can find some cheaper than $260.


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## Michael Bush

Once in a while I get bad swelling. Twice I've had my ankle sweel so much I could barely walk. There is a reason it's called "venom"... but usually, after all these years, I can't find where I got stung five minutes later...


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## HaysiBee

Sheila said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Easter weekend my mom and I got our first packages and installed them. We didn't have much of a problem installing them besides the 3 (well deserved) stings I got. I didn't have much of a reaction to the stings at first. I was actually relieved at how little it actually hurt. Exactly a week later one of the spots I got stung swelled up, turned red, and itched extremely bad! At the time I figured I had a spider bite or something. The next day the 2 other spots did the same thing and that's when I realized it must have had something to do with the bee stings. My mom also got stung once that day but she didn't have any reaction at all.
> 
> So, my questions is, has anyone else had this happen? Should I be concerned?
> 
> Thanks all,
> 
> Sheila


I get itching and swelling after 24 hours. Usually when I wake up. Its super bad. A woman told me a applachia remedy where u take vinegar and wrap it around the sting for a few minutes and I thought it wouldn't work but after a few hours of itching I caved. Idk how it does it but it works. It wouldn't hurt to try but I swear by it.


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## BeeDakota

DPLONG said:


> Sometimes a sting site on my body will get really itchy around day 3. It doesn't happen all the time, usually on my inner upper arm or anywhere there is softer tissue. I don't have any immediate reactions, just the itching 2 to 3 days later and sometimes it really sucks. Make sure you get the stingers out and I would carry and epipen just in case. I always have one in my truck.


I'm like you, usually takes 24-36 hrs for any reaction at all. Then I get a big red 12" ring around the sting and some fluid retention in that area. I got one last sunday on my bicep, through my suit!! It swelled down past my elbow and my tricep looked like an old ladies all jiggly with fluid in it.


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