# Amitraz



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I would give the EPA a call, I'm sure they would really like to hear from you.


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

Did i miss something? Have they made Apivar/Amitraz illegal? Just asked an honest question and look what I get!


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## usngunr (Feb 21, 2013)

tedlemay said:


> Did i miss something? Have they made Apivar/Amitraz illegal? Just asked an honest question and look what I get!


Doesn't matter what you ask, you'll get those guys. Smartest guys in the room. Don't actually help, just troll. I'm interested in the question as well. Hopefully an actual "knowledgeable" and "informed" person will pop in.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

You mean like taktic? Technically it's not labeled for bees though, therefore it's not exactly legal.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I read somewhere a year or two ago that it was banned from production and import into the USA. I never followed it up to be sure about it, you may want to investigate.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

tedlemay said:


> Anyone familiar with mixing up your own Amitraz treatment?


Yes, I am somewhat familiar with mixing your own Amitraz treatment. What you are asking about is the off label use of a pesticide. That's why wildbranch answered you the way he did.

What do you want to know?


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Yes, Taktic was amitraz produced as a pesticide for use on livestock for control of flies, etc Cohen amitraz was first approved to use for varroa, the manufacturer simply repurposed some of the cattle amitraz for it. The dosage was wrong and lots of problems with its use on bees occurred. It was taken off the market. It has since been re-introduced at proper dosage. Taktic, is no longer available in the US. You will probably find it difficult to source any. Especially in small quantities.


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## NAC89 (Jun 1, 2016)

wildbranch2007 said:


> I would give the EPA a call, I'm sure they would really like to hear from you.


Love the government much?? I know I don't. I haven't been here long but I get tired of seeing these post!! I get the need for the government to set guidelines and control the use of certain products for the safety of people and the environment and whatnot... but geez, I wonder if some people are just sheep needing led. All the person did was ask a question about mixing there own and any others experience with it, not whether the government would approve or not. I also see that they mentioned the dosage that is used in an approved treatment, not some whillynilly concoction they felt like brewing up...


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

Thanks NAC89. Well said. What I am asking is what is the correct mixture? What is the vehicle? I was told to mix with veg oil 2:1 but don't think the mixture i was told was correct. That's it! Not saying i am going to go off and pour the stuff over my bees like they were cattle. Just looking for a little help/advise.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

NAC89 said:


> Love the government much?? I know I don't. I haven't been here long but I get tired of seeing these post!! I get the need for the government to set guidelines and control the use of certain products for the safety of people and the environment and whatnot... but geez, I wonder if some people are just sheep needing led. All the person did was ask a question about mixing there own and any others experience with it, not whether the government would approve or not. I also see that they mentioned the dosage that is used in an approved treatment, not some whillynilly concoction they felt like brewing up...


Mike was being sarcastic. I know, it doesn't translate that well in text.

Actually the OP only asked if anyone was familiar with Amitraz. He never asked about what proportions of what to mix.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

tedlemay said:


> Thanks NAC89. Well said. What I am asking is what is the correct mixture? What is the vehicle? I was told to mix with veg oil 2:1 but don't think the mixture i was told was correct. That's it! Not saying i am going to go off and pour the stuff over my bees like they were cattle. Just looking for a little help/advise.


Help doing what? The formula I am familiar with is equal parts Tactik and Canola Oil. Can you buy Amitraz?


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

I have never purchased it but i am told you can get it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Would you believe me if I told you that you can't? Certain substances require a license to purchase.

"Believe half of what you read and none of what you hear."

Besides, what does it matter whether you can get it. You aren't going to use it anyway, are you? wink, wink


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The human deadly toxic dose is 3 grams or so -- a heaping teaspoon -- there's a toxicology report on poisonings in Turkey on the web. The quarts of Taktic get smuggled in from Mexico (and formerly airfreighted from Australia). 

I've seen pix on a Commercial Beek Facebook site of folks mixing up the homebrew with shortening grease in a sub mixer. 

This makes me cringe -- the toxic dose is no more than a dollop, and the safety controls with someone mixing sugar and grease and Amitraz in their backyard (kids and dogs visible in the pix) are non-existent.


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

Thanks for all your help. These are the things i wanted and needed to hear! Feel free to continue to comment.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/amitraz-red-flags-or-red-herrings/


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

Good read. When you get over 100 hives its hard not to look for alternatives to the expensive treatments available today! That's why I asked these questions, so I can make an informed decision. I have never used Amitraz/Taktic or even Apivar but i know those who have. They swear by it and they have had good results with it but I am leaning toward sticking with MAQS for now. Thanks again for all your information.


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

If you do a internet search for Amitraz you will find it for sale outside the US. Whether or not they will ship it to you is a different subject, but it is available.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

tedlemay said:


> I am leaning toward sticking with MAQS for now. Thanks again for all your information.


If you want to drop the cost of treatment, and are happy with MAQS -- consider a "roll your own" formic dose. 95% purity Formic can be purchased from suppliers such as Duda Diesel that service the "biodiesel" hobby market. You must cut this concentrate to 50%. 

Read this publication. "Formic Acid Fumigation" http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcid.pdf

Many commercials I know use Formic on swifter mop pads, meat pack pads, chamois and similar cloths. You saturate the pad with a known quantity of formic and are off to the races. A bit of experimentation with a scale shows a known pad holds a consistently saturated dose -- and measuring individual volume is no longer necessary.

Dosage for singles is 40-50 ml of the dilution. A $40 gallon of Formic will treat 150 hives at that dosage and dilution. Additional savings are possible as formic has broad wholesale availibility.

Formic on pads is "flashier" than the gelled MAQS and is thus more temperature sensitive and riskier to queens. My guess is that one of the food grade thickner agents (Agar, Guar Gum, glycerine, cornstarch ?) would reduce the flash evaporation.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

GSkip said:


> If you do a internet search for Amitraz you will find it for sale outside the US. Whether or not they will ship it to you is a different subject, but it is available.


If you order Tactik from overseas don't be surprised when Customs meets you at the dock and hands you a fine while confiscating the product.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

tedlemay said:


> Anyone familiar with mixing up your own Amitraz treatment? I see Apivar is 0.5g Amitraz and 15g Vehicle. An older beek told me you can mix your own a lot cheaper. Any takers................


If you dig around the internet I am sure you can find several formulas. You need to understand that use of any pesticide in any way that is not listed on the label attached to the bag, bottle or other original container you purchased is against the law and the fines and jail terms per offense are severe. Using it on one hive is one offense. Using it on two hives it two offenses. Etc. If you are willing to risk the government taking your house, vehicles and bank account away from you go ahead and use it. Probably not the best way to save a few $ IMHO. Wildbranch said this very well with far fewer words. If I were a site moderator I would have deleted the original post and any replies as soon as I saw them, other than perhaps Wildbranch's post.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Not true. I got some from Australia recently with no problems.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

tedlemay said:


> Anyone familiar with mixing up your own Amitraz treatment? I see Apivar is 0.5g Amitraz and 15g Vehicle. An older beek told me you can mix your own a lot cheaper. Any takers................


Off label
Bad idea

Apivar works great as per label directions


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

Richard Cryberg said:


> If you dig around the internet I am sure you can find several formulas. You need to understand that use of any pesticide in any way that is not listed on the label attached to the bag, bottle or other original container you purchased is against the law and the fines and jail terms per offense are severe. Using it on one hive is one offense. Using it on two hives it two offenses. Etc. If you are willing to risk the government taking your house, vehicles and bank account away from you go ahead and use it. Probably not the best way to save a few $ IMHO. Wildbranch said this very well with far fewer words. If I were a site moderator I would have deleted the original post and any replies as soon as I saw them, otheru than perhaps Wildbranch's post.


Why would you delete it? This is a lot of good information. If you don't ask you don't get answers! As i said , I am trying to make "informed" decisions. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum that want to assume all is bad and all others want to do is go off half ****ed without first educating ourselves. Maybe I went to the wrong place for my education!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

But your asking an off label use of a chemical application on s public forum. 
What more do you need educated on? The pros and cons of improper chemical exposures to your hives?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

tedlemay said:


> Maybe I went to the wrong place for my education!


Here's the deal. If you use a pesticide in a way that violates the label, and cause any damage to other persons or the environment, and the EPA get's ahold of you, you could have bought a semi trailer load of Amitraz for what it's going to cost you.

I have a Restricted Use Pesticide license and there is NO WAY I would attempt to do what you are considering doing.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I wonder where the commercial bee business would be now after the failure of the EPA miticides which I think may have led to the CCD epidemic If it were not for the use of Tactic and other unregistered treatments. I would also mention the years of using OA.
Johno


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i'm not sure why we are being selective on chastisement for using chemicals 'off label'.

prior to 3/10/2015 u.s. beekeepers using oxalic acid to kill mites in beehives were doing so illegally:

http://www.regulations.gov/document?D=EPA-HQ-OPP-2015-0043-0119

and for those in states that haven't approved it yet, like alabama for instance, it may still be 'illegal':

"Oxalic Acid has been approved by the EPA to treat honey bee colonies in the United States. It must pass state approval before it may legally be sold in each state."

http://blog.brushymountainbeefarm.com/2015/09/oxalic-acid-faqs.html

and unless you are purchasing epa labeled oa from brushy mountain you may be in violation:

"Brushy Mountain Bee Farm has been authorized by the EPA to be the sole distributer of oxalic acid for use as a miticide on honey bees. What does this mean? Well, in order for any application of oxalic (in beehives) to be legal, it must have the EPA approval label on it; Brushy is the only distributor registered to use the EPA label. It may seem silly, but it really is there for a reason. If you start searching the internet for oxalic acid application in bees, there’s a broad range of information out there for recipes for taking straight oxalic acid (wood bleach) down to the 2 or 3%
(recommended) application concentrations. Some internet guidance may be sound, but others can be reckless – and even dangerous – for you and your bees. How can you know the difference? Certainly, you don’t want to risk gettng hurt or inflicting undue stress on your bees. An EPA label assures you of what you are receiving and gives you the applicable instructions to follow; so, you can avoid any gamble from following unsubstaniated YouTube videos. For example, the oxalic acid purchased at your local hardware store is only 95% pure oxalic acid. The material sold through Brushy Mountain Bee Farm is 99% pure."

from: http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/documents/GBLJul-2015a.pdf

i would venture to guess that there a number of contributors on the forum that might be guilty of having broken the law for these various reasons.

i don't have a dog in this fight because i don't use treatments of any kind, but i think we need to be a little less hypocritical here.

tedlemay, randy oliver is a pretty smart guy and he has stayed away from amitraz or anything like it that builds up residual biproducts in the comb that linger for a very long time.

your maqs is a lot more 'hive-friendly'. oxalic might be more cost effective if you do what most everyone else does and use unlabeled wood bleach, but then off course you would have to be constantly looking over your shoulder for the bee police.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Trying to justify off label use of Amitraz 
Comparing it to OA use does not make a great case


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

squarepeg said:


> just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...


I see a difference; amitraz is known to cause the development of resistance by the mites when used improperly or without rotation. In this case of using a bulk form (tactic) that is user concocted the possibility of over dosing (or for resistance issues) the greater sin of under dosing.

OA had previous (~20 years) well tested usage in Europe and Canada without observed resistance development. The with-holding of approval in the US was due more to bureaucratic delay than safety or effectiveness issues, at least that is the general understanding.

In that light, I have no problem seeing that some "sins" really are worse than others. In reality we all make calls in what issues to follow to the letter of the law and which ones we observe with a bit of personal discretion.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

squarepeg said:


> just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...


you mean like manslaughter and premeditated murder or petty theft and grand larceny?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

johno said:


> I wonder where the commercial bee business would be now after the failure of the EPA miticides which I think may have led to the CCD epidemic If it were not for the use of Tactic and other unregistered treatments. I would also mention the years of using OA.
> Johno


So you believe that miticides developed the way all other pesticides are developed contributed to CCD, but not the Home Remedies that use the same active ingredients? And what are you saying about the years of using OA? That that contributed to CCD too?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> "Brushy Mountain Bee Farm has been authorized by the EPA to be the sole distributer of oxalic acid for use as a miticide on honey bees."

I have no argument with that statement, but let us note that Brushy Mtn is _not _the exclusive _vendor _of Brushy Mtn EPA approved/labeled oxalic acid. At a minimum, Dadant is reselling Brushy Mtn labeled oxalic acid.

https://www.dadant.com/catalog/medications/oxalic-acid-m01758


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

squarepeg said:


> just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...


I think it's the jury of public opinion, or shal I say jury of Beekeeper's opinion. 
Not too long ago a beekeeper posted a pic of his nice looking broodnests on Facebook commercial page, which had blue shop towels visible in the pic. The comment section slammed him. 
Yet guys post vids of OA vapour application all the time with great interest. 

I think your just playing devils advocate but I do see your point. In Canada OA is registered, I did not realize it was not in the US


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> If you order Tactik from overseas don't be surprised when Customs meets you at the dock and hands you a fine while confiscating the product.


Well now let's not set our hair on fire here. Never said I or anyone else was or had ordered it I only said it's available. I've worked in and retired from the law enforcement field, if it is restricted then customs will seize it. They have better bigger things to chase than a bottle of bug killer. But you are right if you use it there maybe issues legally.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

crofter said:


> ...In reality we all make calls in what issues to follow to the letter of the law and which ones we observe with a bit of personal discretion.


all good points frank and no argument here, but none of those were made to the op, just that what he was proposing to do was 'illegal', which it is, but no more or less so than the example provided.

how is one supposed to know which issues get followed to the letter and which do not here? it seemed like a fair question that received an unfair response, but it appears i'm making too much of it, my apologies.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

crofter said:


> I see a difference; amitraz is known to cause the development of resistance by the mites when used improperly or without rotation. In this case of using a bulk form (tactic) that is user concocted the possibility of over dosing (or for resistance issues) the greater sin of under dosing.


I think you are confusing apistan (fluvinate) with Apivar(amitraz). I do not think that there has been any development of resistance to amitraz. It was pulled because of improper dosage killing bees, not due to resistance in mites.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

jbeshearse said:


> I think you are confusing apistan (fluvinate) with Apivar(amitraz). I do not think that there has been any development of resistance to amitraz.


Randy Oliver is reporting that there are varroa resistant to amitraz ...



> In Argentina, where amitraz has also been extensively used against varroa, a recent study suggests that mites in some operations have become at least 35 times more resistant to the chemical [33]. Similar reports come from throughout the world (Italy, Portugal, Argentina, and France; reviewed by Pires [34]). Surprisingly, a friend in Chile tells me that amitraz failed to control mites there after only three seasons of use.
> 
> On the other hand, Semkiw [35], testing amitraz strips (similar to Apivar) in Poland, where the active ingredient has been used for 30 years, obtained up to 95% efficacy in eliminating varroa, with the majority of the mites dropping in the first three weeks, but full efficacy not obtained until 8 weeks.
> 
> ...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Ian said:


> In Canada OA is registered, I did not realize it was not in the US


Oxalic acid is now a registered control for varroa, but that is a fairly recent event. US EPA approval for OA was in March 2015, but since each state must also issue approval for use within individual states, there are about 6 US states that have not yet issued oxalic registration approval for their respective states.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

GSkip said:


> Well now let's not set our hair on fire here. Never said I or anyone else was or had ordered it I only said it's available. I've worked in and retired from the law enforcement field, if it is restricted then customs will seize it. They have better bigger things to chase than a bottle of bug killer. But you are right if you use it there maybe issues legally.


Well, be that as it may, and I cannot verify this, but I did hear about someone who ordered a somewhat large quantity of Tactik and it was seized. If something is seized does the person it is kept from simply get off Scott free?


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

sqkcrk

Yea I would think if it's ban from use and you were receiving large quantities they would look a lot closer. The question... Is it illegal to buy or just illegal to use it. Is it still legal in a form which it is deemed safe to society.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

All I really know is that Tactik is no longer available from Ag Supply sources.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

There are a lot of good reasons no one should use an unregistered pesticide treatment on his bees.
1. It costs a lot of money in general to register something as a pesticide. People who cheat and refuse to pay back the person who spent his money getting a product registered make the business of selling pesticides not profitable. When the legal stuff we have available no longer works due to resistance we will need new products and if many people cheat no one will spend the money getting a new effective product registered.
2. If someone cheats and ends up selling honey with a residue in it and word gets to the consumer it will hurt sales volume and sales price for everyone selling honey as the consumer will not trust the product.
3. Home brews are just plain dangerous. People have died because of off label uses. Do you want to face a wrongful death charge?
4. Very few people have the technical back ground and skills to be able to make any sensible choices on what is safe and what is not safe. I have that back ground and those technical skills and would never consider a off label use of a pesticide even if I knew it was 100% safe to my bees, myself and consumers
5. If you get caught the potential penalties are awesome. By the time the government is done with you they may own the silver fillings in your teeth. Off label uses is one thing the government has zero tolerance for. They simply love destroying anyone caught using a pesticide off label.
6. Bee keepers love to ***** up a storm about farmers using perfectly legal on label applications. If bee keepers are going to use off label uses they lose all rights to ever say a work about farmers legal uses.
7. There are no reasons to use off label applications. We have had legal and safe pesticides to kill mites for well over 20 years. As resistance problems have developed new products were immediately available that generally were safer to the bees, safer to honey consumers and readily available at a reasonable cost. Anyone who thinks those products contributed to CCD is simply nuts and needs an education.
8. The OP asked a question that he knew was against the law. His question is no different from asking how to rob a bank without getting caught. This site should not allow such questions. It reflects badly on all bee keepers and reflects badly on this site to allow such a question to be posted.
9. The law is real simple. If it is not on the label of the original container the product was in when purchased in it is illegal. How much simpler can it get? Off label use is never a minor offense like driving 70MPH in a 65MPH zone or a rolling stop thru a stop sign. It is far more serious and rightfully has far greater penalties. I support the governments duty to throw the book at anyone caught cheating as it protects me as a consumer and protects my minor honey business. If anything I feel the penalties should be greater.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Richard Cryberg said:


> 9. It is far more serious and rightfully has far greater penalties. I support the governments duty to throw the book at anyone caught cheating as it protects me as a consumer and protects my minor honey business. If anything I feel the penalties should be greater.


just trolling by and thought I would stop in and agree 110% :thumbsup:


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

Richard Cryberg said:


> There are a lot of good reasons no one should use an unregistered pesticide treatment on his bees.
> 1. It costs a lot of money in general to register something as a pesticide. People who cheat and refuse to pay back the person who spent his money getting a product registered make the business of selling pesticides not profitable. When the legal stuff we have available no longer works due to resistance we will need new products and if many people cheat no one will spend the money getting a new effective product registered.
> 2. If someone cheats and ends up selling honey with a residue in it and word gets to the consumer it will hurt sales volume and sales price for everyone selling honey as the consumer will not trust the product.
> 3. Home brews are just plain dangerous. People have died because of off label uses. Do you want to face a wrongful death charge?
> ...


Richard, Your finger pointing is totally wrong. I understand "NOW" my question was not worded correctly. Maybe I need to type slower and ask my questions differently. I should have did my research first and asked questions after instead of seeking advise from people here and then ask my questions later. I new nothing about Amitraz, Taktic, Apivar, etc. Have never researched it until now! I was simply asking if one could exactly mimic the recipe as to be correct. Think I got my answer! As I said before I was simply seeking more advise other than what I got from another older beekeeper. I have only treated my hives once with MAQS. Never with the other stuff. Maybe next time you might need to ask the writer of the op what he knows about a particular thing before you go calling he or she a criminal! But some of your advise was good! I do thank you for that.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

A reply to post # 34.
What I am saying is that the EPA approved the use of cuomaphos and fluvalinate miticides that mites became resistant to and that also left cumulative residues in brood comb. This plus the mite damage might have gone a long way to help on CCD. beekeepers were left with not much as an alternative legal miticide so they used what they could to save their bees. As far as OA is concerned there is no doubt that it has been used for many years illegally and will probably continue to be used as such. However I have in no way inferred that OA used legally or illegally was some way responsible for CCD
Johno


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> All I really know is that Tactik is no longer available from Ag Supply sources.


sqkcrk 

I have never bought any but know people who have used it in the past. It was taken of the market before I started keeping bees. From what I understand it was used wide spread in most of the country for years. Never heard of any issues related to it causing harm, doesn't mean it hasn't!!!

tedlemay

hang in there guy I've also had the same experience with posting. There are great people here but as with any thing you have some that leap to conclusions before understanding the facts. A simple question or statement turns into massive drama. Good luck with your bees it's a great business hobby.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Well if you step in do do, even innocently, you make a discovery. Getting all upset and feeling persecuted from the responce........nah, that wont fly! It is as it is!


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

:lpf::lpf:


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

tedlemay said:


> Anyone familiar with mixing up your own Amitraz treatment? I see Apivar is 0.5g Amitraz and 15g Vehicle. An older beek told me you can mix your own a lot cheaper. Any takers................


tedlemay

I spoke with some of our local long time honey producers about the amitraz use they said it was mixed with cooking shortening and food coloring. They would not discuss the formula ratios. Said it was too hard to determine based on percentage of the amitraz. No one would admit to present use. Hope that helps. For me there are too many other good options.


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

GSkip said:


> sqkcrk
> 
> I have never bought any but know people who have used it in the past. It was taken of the market before I started keeping bees. From what I understand it was used wide spread in most of the country for years. Never heard of any issues related to it causing harm, doesn't mean it hasn't!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks!!:thumbsup:


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

GSkip said:


> tedlemay
> 
> I spoke with some of our local long time honey producers about the amitraz use they said it was mixed with cooking shortening and food coloring. They would not discuss the formula ratios. Said it was too hard to determine based on percentage of the amitraz. No one would admit to present use. Hope that helps. For me there are too many other good options.


I agree GSkip, Will also stick with better options (now that i am educated)! lol And as to you crofter i didn't get my feelings hurt sir. lol Just don't don't like people assuming the worst without asking. It's hard enough (as you say) to keep from stepping in dodo in this life but we all do. Just don't like having to dodge the dodo being thrown at me rather that stepping over it! Have a nice day.


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## ethanhogan (Jun 1, 2016)

Don't quote me on this and I don't like speaking for any one else, but I think I was watching a Palmer video from the honey show and he mentioned he used Amitraz to treat for mites. Not sure if I'm right but he compared to apivar. I'm also crazy so take that with a grain of salt, and if this is not true sorry Michael palmer


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

I read a report on the differences between Amitraz and Tactik. Tactik contains two additional ingredients that have not been tested for effect in bees or their wax. Amitraz is a binary of two ingredients with a short half-life.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

GSkip said:


> sqkcrk
> 
> I have never bought any but know people who have used it in the past. It was taken of the market before I started keeping bees. From what I understand it was used wide spread in most of the country for years. Never heard of any issues related to it causing harm, doesn't mean it hasn't!!!
> 
> ...


GSkip,
I believe I know everything I need to know about Tactik/Amitraz and maybe more than I think prudent to express on the internet, such as formulations and materials that people mix it with. I have been keeping bees since before Varroa arrived in the US. I have seen all of the miticides, both manufactured and home remedies, since they started being used. I even used the Cattle Ear Tag Amitraz Formulation that was sold and then went off the market back in 1990(?) or whenever it was.

I too have heard of no issues related to causing harm from use. Though I do know guys who went from one strength to another more stronger concoction over the years. I know people who, knowing that Tactik was going off the market, stockpiled Tactik for further use.

As far as hanging in there advice, comments on this Thread have been mild compared to other Threads. People Posting on beesource have every reason to expect to be treated respectfully, but they should also expect straight talk. And if blunt replies are too much for an individual then they should grow a thick skin. People should ask questions that make sense to those they expect replies from and do so in plain and clear language, explaining exactly what they are talking about and wishing to know about.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

ethanhogan said:


> Don't quote me on this and I don't like speaking for any one else, but I think I was watching a Palmer video from the honey show and he mentioned he used Amitraz to treat for mites. Not sure if I'm right but he compared to apivar. I'm also crazy so take that with a grain of salt, and if this is not true sorry Michael palmer


You really shouldn't make statements about what people do unless you know for sure that they do what you think they do. You can edit this Post to extract those things you are not certain of.


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## tedlemay (Oct 3, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> GSkip,
> I believe I know everything I need to know about Tactik/Amitraz and maybe more than I think prudent to express on the internet, such as formulations and materials that people mix it with. I have been keeping bees since before Varroa arrived in the US. I have seen all of the miticides, both manufactured and home remedies, since they started being used. I even used the Cattle Ear Tag Amitraz Formulation that was sold and then went off the market back in 1990(?) or whenever it was.
> 
> I too have heard of no issues related to causing harm from use. Though I do know guys who went from one strength to another more stronger concoction over the years. I know people who, knowing that Tactik was going off the market, stockpiled Tactik for further use.
> ...


Very well spoken! Thanks for the advise. I will remember it for the next time.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

One must not be afraid to ask, but ask well.


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