# agricultural grade diatomaceous earth



## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

what would keep the oil or the DE from just washing away in the rain?


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## jdpro5010 (Mar 22, 2007)

Nothing would keep it from washing away. Ants generally are not a real problem for the bees. I would just let them go and let the bees take care of them. While I agree the DE is on the ground and generally the only bees on the ground around the hive are unhealthy ones and gonna die, why not let the bees handle the ants and not worry about the DE harming the bees or the rain washing it away.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

Nothing, it would have to be reapplied. Typically the rain and cold weather keep the ants away anyways. The oil would leave a residue and possibly become rancis. The DE would just disappear back into the environment. It may also need to be reapplied depending upon wind or being stepped on or whatever else may cause it to disappear. The idea is that it is an alternative.


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## nic (Sep 28, 2009)

hey i use permetheran (40:60), its a liquid that you pour into the ground and it settles in over night into the dirt, it completly repels ants, shb, and other annoying insects, the bees that land on the ground are completly unaffected! when the shb larva enters the ground you will never see it again and regardless of rain, you only need to repour every 3-4 months! its the same stuff that cucumber and pumkin growers use so its food friendly. 1ml of perm mixes with 1L of water, you will need approx 10L every 3 square meters, so it lasts a long time, use a water can not a misting can. dont get it airbourne and ou will never have aproblem, i live in qld australia and its hot and we have freak ant problems and major shb, with the use of oil and vinigar beetle traps, the only thing in my hives is healthy broody honey and bees, worth a thought


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## sjbees (Jun 9, 2007)

> hey i use permetheran (40:60)....

If that is the same insecticide as Permethrin, here's what wikipedia has to say about it:

In agriculture, permethrin is mainly used on cotton, wheat, maize, and alfalfa crops, and is also used to kill parasites on chickens and other poultry. It is also extensively used in Europe as a timber treatment against wood boring beetle (woodworm). Its use is controversial since, as a broad-spectrum chemical, it kills indiscriminately; as well as the intended pests, it can harm beneficial insects including honey bees, aquatic life, and small mammals such as mice.

Recently, in South Africa, residues of permethrin were found in breast milk, together with DDT, in an area that experienced DDT treatment for malaria control, as well as the use of pyrethroids in small-scale agriculture.

Permethrin is toxic to cats and many cats die after being given flea treatments intended for dogs, or by contact with dogs who have recently been treated with permethrin.

Interestingly:

Permethrin is used in tropical areas to prevent mosquito-borne disease such as dengue fever and malaria. Mosquito nets used to cover beds may be treated with a solution of permethrin. This increases the effectiveness of the bed net by killing parasitic insects before they are able to find gaps or holes in the net. Malaria kills 1-3 million people per year. Military personnel training in malaria-endemic areas may be instructed to treat their uniforms with permethrin as well. An application should last several washes.

Permethrin is also used on humans for lice or scabies, the common prescription is Permethrin with 5% concentration for scabies, and OTC (over the counter) treatment for head lice/crabs is usually permethrin with 1% concentration.

****roaches, head lice and other insects have become resistant to permethrin. Good to know SHB are still vulnerable.

http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/pesticides/permethrin/cox-report/cox.htm says permethrin is acutely toxic to bees, so your experience is counter to the recommendations for use.

Sprays with a 0.5% concentration are available to use on clothing. The weird part of the instructions is "avoid contact with skin and eyes", yet this is for clothing which is worn next to the skin.

Not sure what the 40:60 refers to, but 36.8% concentration is about the highest you can get in the US (in some states, not allowed in others) under the name of "Professional" Permethrin - it is sold to exterminators.


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## nic (Sep 28, 2009)

it kills indiscriminately; as well as the intended pests, it can harm beneficial insects including honey bees, aquatic life, and small mammals such as mice.

if airbourne like i said, this form of perm is soley for the soil, thats why i said use a watering can and not an mist forming application. 

ive been usuing it for a long time and most commercail beekeepers in this area also have been using it for many years aswell. 

the 40/60 grade perm is for soil and not air eg, crop dusters etc.. 

its really a good product, never had a problem, as long as its not airbourne and applied after the bees go to bed, you should be fine


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## nic (Sep 28, 2009)

Y-Tex Gardstar® 40% EC Livestock and Premise Insecticide
(PERMETHRIN—see note below) has been APPROVED IN CONTROLLING SMALL HIVE BEETLE around honey bee colonies. Hive
beetles must pupate in the soil to complete their life cycle. This
pesticide, used as a soil drench, provides treatment for the
beetles, while minimizing contact with bees and honey.
For treatment of existing infestations, apply as soon as beetles
or larvae are observed in or around the hive. 

Thoroughly wet ground in an area 18-24 inches wide in front of each hive (1
gallon per 6 hives). Apply in late evening after bees become
inactive. For pre-placement treatment of apiary, apply to entire
ground surface 24-48 hours prior to hive placement.
Note: Permethrin is highly toxic to bees and extreme caution
must be taken to avoid contact by spray or spray drift with the
bees, hive equipment, or any other surfaces that bees may
contact. 

When hives are present, application of the pesticide may only be made with a sprinkler can. Hand pump sprayers
may only be used when hives are not present and only for preplacement
treatment of an apiary. Do not contaminate any
water or food source that may be in the area or apply during
windy conditions. For better soil penetration and improved
efficacy, cut grass around hive prior to application.


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## nic (Sep 28, 2009)

to give you an idea, when i expect my hives, i would be very lucky to see a hive beetle, i usually encounter a sighting every 3-4 hives. there is very little the beetle can do when your using this stuff, ants and mice aswell


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## sjbees (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks for the detailed info. 

Found it at www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=1&pf_id=14047


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