# How to determine the number of hive you can have in one location.



## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

I have lived in the same house for 22 years and have never seen (or noticed) any bees. Last year I built a top bar and this year put in a swarm. I live in southern Missouri in the hills and as I watch my bees they head out over the trees to forage. A few will stay around for wild flowers and once the garden is up I am sure there will be more stay around.
To the question: How would I determine the number of hives that I could keep and not starve the bees or have to feed them all the time?


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

It is my understanding that this varies greatly. I'm told that my area could support 20-30 hives.
Some places may not support any I suppose.
Then some that you may at first think would be not good are great.
Like the big city for example.(not for me)
Then you have to consider variables beyond control also.
Like the weather.


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## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

How was it determined that you could support 20-30 hives?
Thanks


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

It is one of those things that one does not really know the answer to until one has tried it. Most yards in this area will support 20 - maybe 24 at the most. I am sure your mileage will vary. It seems like if we make 1000 lbs of honey in a 20 hive yard that if we cut back to 10 hives then we will still make pretty close to 1000 lbs of honey. That is probably a bit of an exaggeration but not too much.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

rtoney said:


> How was it determined that you could support 20-30 hives?
> Thanks


Say you have a yard with 40 hives and you notice they are starving.... so take away 10 and you notice they are starving... take away 10 more and lets say it appears they can sustain themselves.... Just about that simple...


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

Not much exact science, and alot of different opinions in beekeeping.
I learned this right out of the gate!


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Are you wanting to know how many hives you can keep without starving them or them making excess honey? For starving...it more depends on how big the hive is and what time of the year...you could keep 100 in an area in the early summer depending on where you are and not have anything to forge on in late summer....like California. Doesn't mean they will starve...but it could. Usually an area like you are describing can support a couple to a half dozen no problem...without knowing what you are surrounded by in terms of flowers, etc. it would be hard to pick a number.


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## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, I only plan to catch swarms or do my own splits and stay with top bar (i like the concept so far) so they should not build too fast. If it looks like they are struggling I will sell off any extra and go from there.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have never found that answer by adding hives each year. I know beekeepers who have one semi load of hives in each yard in SC. That's over 400. But when they stock yards in NY, for honey production, 40 to 60 is not uncommon.

My summer yards have from 32 to 40 cols per yd, because that is what I am comfortable working at a time. Before I want to ride down the road to the next yd.

You have one now. How many do you think you might want to have in the future? Two? Ten? Fifty?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have yards that seem to only be able to support about 10 to 15 hives and other yards that can support 30 to 40. 20 is a nice round number, but may or may not be the best. But it's a good guess.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> I have yards that seem to only be able to support about 10 to 15 hives and other yards that can support 30 to 40. 20 is a nice round number, but may or may not be the best. But it's a good guess.


Since there is so much a difference in production from one year to a next, it would take a number of years to figure it out. And I don't know how one would set up a study to determine colony density. How would set up a "control"?

So, my advice is not to worry about it, because you probably aren't going to keep enuf colonies to get to that level. In good years, everybody makes a crop. In poor years, no one does. Just one of those things.


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## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

I am thinking only 4-5 total and 1 may be enough but I want to be able to support more if I get any swarms or if my bees swarm or if I do some splits until I can get them to someone else. Once again here in the hills of southern Missouri I don't know how much is out there for the bees to work with (probably more then I think). I just don't want the bees to have a hard time of it if I get to many built up here.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Since there is so much a difference in production from one year to a next, it would take a number of years to figure it out. And I don't know how one would set up a study to determine colony density. How would set up a "control"?

And then you'd be predicting it on a "typical" year, hopefully, but that is the issue. It varies too much form year to year, and place to place.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Interesting thoughts. If we assume that a bee will fly a distance of two miles to forage, that bee will cover over 8,000 acres, potentially. 

Unless you can hold the cropping pattern on those 8,000 acres the same from year to year, unless you can stabilize the weather from year to year, unless you can keep hives at the same strength from year to year, there are just too many variables to come up with any definite number of hives in one yard. And then you have yet to take into consideration any ferals in the neighborhood or other hives that will potentially overlap that area.

I say load up a yard until it makes your neighbor nervous. If no neighbor exists, then don't worry about it.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Unless the location is so poor that one doesn't do well, I see no reason not to have 4 or 5 there. Besides, what does it matter if they only make enuf surplus honey for your needs and enuf to winter on? It's not like you are trying to make a living at it. Right?


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## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

One of the hardest things for me would be to remember which tree the hive was setting next to if I had very many. My wife does not want them close to the house and even though we have 3 acres it's all trees. I can get lost just trying to find my way back to the house from the creek. From what I have read I don't think 4-5 would be a problem for the area.
Thanks


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

If a bee foragers in any direction up to 3 miles from the hive, then the "potential area" they could cover would be approximately 72,000 acres. Much more than 8,000 acres.


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## Liberty Nut (Dec 30, 2010)

Riskybizz said:


> If a bee foragers in any direction up to 3 miles from the hive, then the "potential area" they could cover would be approximately 72,000 acres. Much more than 8,000 acres.


A circle with a 3 mile radius encompasses 4,480 acres. A circle enclosing 72,000 acres would have a radius of approximately 6 miles.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Liberty Nut said:


> A circle with a 3 mile radius encompasses 4,480 acres. A circle enclosing 72,000 acres would have a radius of approximately 6 miles.


 Pi X R X R = Area of Circle
3.14 x 3 x 3= 27 square miles (1 square mile = 640 acres)

27 sq miles 640 acre/sq mile = approx 18000 acres.


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## Liberty Nut (Dec 30, 2010)

Liberty Nut said:


> A circle with a 3 mile radius encompasses 4,480 acres. A circle enclosing 72,000 acres would have a radius of approximately 6 miles.


I apologize for my error. My calculations for 3 mile radius were actually for a 3 mile diameter.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Draw a circle and put a dot in the center to represent a single hive. The bees could then fly potentially fly 3 miles in 'every' direction. This would then create a potential diameter of the foraging area of 6 miles. Hence the 72,000 acres. Bees don't just fly 3 miles in one direction.


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## Liberty Nut (Dec 30, 2010)

Riskybizz said:


> Draw a circle and put a dot in the center to represent a single hive. The bees could then fly potentially fly 3 miles in 'every' direction. This would then create a potential diameter of the foraging area of 6 miles. Hence the 72,000 acres. Bees don't just fly 3 miles in one direction.


Three miles in "every direction" from a hive creates a circle with a three-mile radius. A circle with a radius of three miles has a diameter of six miles, encompasses a little more than 28 square miles, or slightly more than 18,000 acres.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Riskybizz said:


> Draw a circle and put a dot in the center to represent a single hive. The bees could then fly potentially fly 3 miles in 'every' direction. This would then create a potential diameter of the foraging area of 6 miles. Hence the 72,000 acres. Bees don't just fly 3 miles in one direction.


How are you calculating this 72000 acres.... a 6 mile diameter is still a 3 mile radius.. you are using pi R squared... right? And 1 sq mile = 640 acres. Your answer is off by a multiple of 4.... so what is that telling me??


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## Liberty Nut (Dec 30, 2010)

And if we assume the bees cover a two-mile radius, as was assumed in post #14, the total is just over 8,000 acres.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Liberty Nut said:


> And if we assume the bees cover a two-mile radius, as was assumed in post #14, the total is just over 8,000 acres.


Which is actually closer to reality... and note that bee density at the edge of this 2 mile circle will be very very thin.


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## Liberty Nut (Dec 30, 2010)

hpm08161947 said:


> How are you calculating this 72000 acres.... a 6 mile diameter is still a 3 mile radius.. you are using pi R squared... right? And 1 sq mile = 640 acres. Your answer is off by a multiple of 4.... so what is that telling me??


72,000 acres works out to a six-mile radius. My guess is that he ran the numbers switching the diameter and the radius. I made a similar mistake in coming up with the acreage for a 3 mile radius in the first place.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Ahh... yes... he plugged the Diameter into the radius... that will do it.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

yup........I stand corrected...sorry.......


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## Virginia Bee (May 20, 2010)

Well I have 7 hives. They are 100 yards from my house and gardens. There are basically no other hives in the area and I have only seen a few of my girls around the house this spring.

I guess it just depends on how much competition they have for the pollen.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Virginia Bee said:


> There are basically no other hives in the area ...


That you are aware of.


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## Danman (Jun 13, 2011)

I have 80 acres- half pasture, half wooded. Have about 1 acre in various flowering fruits and herbs that we have planted. In a good year the pastures will be filled with wildflowers. I also plant about another acre in buckwheat/clover every year. 

I'm interested in about 20 hives- a little supplemental income. Right now I have six. Would it make any difference spreading them out in yards of five (since they fly so far anyways)? Howmany hives would some of you experienced beeks put in this area? 

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread- if there's a problem I can repost.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Danman said:


> I have 80 acres- half pasture, half wooded. Have about 1 acre in various flowering fruits and herbs that we have planted. In a good year the pastures will be filled with wildflowers. I also plant about another acre in buckwheat/clover every year.
> 
> I'm interested in about 20 hives- a little supplemental income. Right now I have six. Would it make any difference spreading them out in yards of five (since they fly so far anyways)? Howmany hives would some of you experienced beeks put in this area?
> 
> Hope I'm not hijacking the thread- if there's a problem I can repost.


I don't think that spreading out 20 hives for 80 acres of forage will make much difference in foraging for the bees. In regards to separating for possible disease control, bear/skunk/etc predation, robbing, etc., it might make a positive difference. But, there again, you'll have four different locations to visit, carry supplies to, etc.,. There are pros and cons for placing them together or apart, but I don't think foraging will really be a major factor. One thing you might find is that one location might produce better hives/honey than the other locations....if it does then you could move all the hives to that location (sunlight, shade, natural breeze, wind breaks, soil conditions, etc.).

Just some thoughts,
Ed


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

For 20 hives it should not make any difference. Just plunk them down in one area and working them will be simpler.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you put them 1/2 mile apart it might make a difference... any close and I don't think it matters.


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## 100 td (Apr 3, 2011)

If your 80 acre block is 1 mile long and one eighth a mile wide, putting them at each end will split them and give them some different foraging areas


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