# European Foulbrood vs. Sacbrood vs. PMS



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

other than American foulbrood, most of the time brood diseases will clear up with healthy well fed bees. you may lose some badly diseased hives but a nectar flow or a good feeding program and good pollen-sub will cure most hives. limit robbing as much as you can... mites are the hard thing to deal with, monitor and treat as required. the trick is not to let them get out of control, monitor mite population .. as you said the cure for AFB IS A BIG FIRE IMMEDIATLY.


----------



## MRB (Jan 26, 2013)

Iotron Electron Beam Sterilization is suppose to be able to get rid of AFB without having to burn the hive and equipment.


----------



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Will Iotron sterilize pollen without degrading it? 
I wondered as I can purchase pollen that has not been irradiated but have concerns about feeding it as it may carry pathogens.



MRB said:


> Iotron Electron Beam Sterilization is suppose to be able to get rid of AFB without having to burn the hive and equipment.


----------



## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

NeilV said:


> Also, it seems to me that a severe mite problem could actually cause sacbrood to get out of control. Is there any study indicating that mites spread sacbrood virus. I've done some reading that indicates that PMS can look like sacbrood, but sacbrood itself may not be there in those hives, even when it sorta looks like sacbrood.


NeilV this study points in that direction (see here please http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535170/?tools=bot).
"_In Varroa samples, the following four viruses were identified: DWV (100% of the apiaries), SBV (45% of the apiaries), ABPV (36% of the apiaries), and KBV (5% of the apiaries). The latter findings support the putative role of mites in transmitting these viruses. Taken together, these data indicate that bee virus infections occur persistently in bee populations despite the lack of clinical signs, suggesting that colony disease outbreaks might result from environmental factors that lead to activation of viral replication in bees._"


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

one other important thing to cover is how to send samples to the usda bee lab in Beltsville md. this takes the guess work out of identifying problems, and it is free


----------



## MRB (Jan 26, 2013)

WBVC said:


> Will Iotron sterilize pollen without degrading it?
> I wondered as I can purchase pollen that has not been irradiated but have concerns about feeding it as it may carry pathogens.


I'm not 100% sure WBVC, but when you get it sterilized you leave all your comb, honey, and pollen inside the hive that needs it. I do know it's supposed to kill every living organism and pathogens in the hive or that's on the equipment that is being sterilized.


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

the reason pollen is irradeated is to kill diseases. I would still consider the origin.


----------



## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Sacbrood and EFB will die in different larval stages. Sacbrood dies in the capped, prepupal stage but not the pupa stage like AFB. When the prepupal stage is found uncapped, the bees have removed the cappings. Before sacbrood forms the water filled sac the prepupal remains are a straw colored, then grayish, then turning brown with a very dark head and the water filled sac. The remains before the sac is formed keep their shape and are easy to remove, they don't melt the way they do in AFB or EFB. Sacbrood is caused by a virus so the beekeeper can't treat. The only time I have had it in my bees I removed the frames of dead brood (4 from each of 2 colonies), added frames of sealed and emerging brood from other colonies, and requeened the colonies. This cleared up the problem. The last information I read stated that Sacbrood was not transmitted by varroa mites.

EFB usually dies in the curled stage, before the cell is capped, in the early larval stages. Often the larvae stretch out, but they curl in the cell instead of lying straight. The color changes that I notice in EFB is the loss of the pearly white color, changing to gray/orange with the tracheal lines showing (to me it looks like segments of an orange cut in half). When the larvae decay they do not rope out like AFB. Removing the queen, cutting queen cells and requeening in 10 to 14 days clears EFB up, but if it reoccurs I would shake down the colony onto foundations and feed. Old comb causes problems to linger on in some cases.

I have never found PMS that formed the water filled sac in Sacbrood. Most of the dead pupa seem to be very dry and they are small, short abdomen pupa. None of the remains will rope as they do in AFB, and I don't notice odor. PMS is much more common than brood disease in my area, I have not seen EFB in my bees in over 10 years, Sacbrood in over 15 and AFB never. Our inspectors report only 11 cases of AFB in over 6000 colonies inspected in Arkansas. PMS has had a new name given to it but I can't remember what it is.


----------



## antonioh (Oct 15, 2014)

PMS may have odor and may mimic AFB (whitout ropiness) or EFB. Sometimes only a PCR may give the answer.


----------



## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

Thanks everyone. Very helpful. If anybody has anything else, fire away.


----------



## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

Will irradiation kill SHB and moth eggs in comb? Would that a viable method of pre-treating frames before storage?

I tried to find a large freezer building that would store the bins of frames for 30 days or so but no facilities wanted to store them in fear of losing their USDA permit.


----------



## MRB (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes it will kill them, but it doesn't mean an adults moth couldn't fly into your storage area and start laying eggs.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

MRB said:


> Iotron Electron Beam Sterilization is suppose to be able to get rid of AFB without having to burn the hive and equipment.


Want to rent my IEBS Unit? You'll have to bring me your equipment and come back when I am finished with it.


----------



## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

MRB said:


> Yes it will kill them, but it doesn't mean an adults moth couldn't fly into your storage area and start laying eggs.


All of my frames are in sealed bins and would like to take them somewhere (freezer or irradiator) and have them processed while in the bins. As long as the bins aren't opened, adult moths should not be able to get in.
I can store the bins in a pole barn and only worry about mice getting in, however, with six cats roaming the yard, mice are in short supply.


----------



## MRB (Jan 26, 2013)

Sounds like a good plan.


----------

