# Buying a tablesaw...some input



## MrGreenThumb (Apr 22, 2007)

Hello

I plan on buying a tablesaw. It will mainly be used to build beehives. I need the tablesaw to be able to cut Rabbet, Crosscut, Ripsaw, Miter and some Mortise and Tenon work..small scale.

I do not want to spend over $350.00 and would like a new one. What type should I look for? Options? 

thx


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## Scut Farkas (Jun 7, 2007)

MrGreenThumb said:


> Hello
> 
> I plan on buying a tablesaw. It will mainly be used to build beehives. I need the tablesaw to be able to cut Rabbet, Crosscut, Ripsaw, Miter and some Mortise and Tenon work..small scale.
> 
> ...


It'll cost you $1,500 for the contractor model (soon to be introduced) but you'll always be known as Mr. GreenThumb if you buy the SawStop model which pretty much cannot cut your finger off. Check out the demonstration video at sawstop.com where they TRY to cut a hot dog with the saw - they can't!


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## Jack T. (Apr 21, 2007)

Get the biggest *table* you can find. . .and watch garage sales. If you can find an old, heavy belt driven saw at a garage sale, you'll be quite pleased.

Edit: By "table" I mean just that. The little "tablesaws" that Lowe's sells work fine. . .as long as you don't need more than about two (2) feet of table space.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205460
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191436


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## Matt Guyrd (Nov 28, 2007)

FWIW, my opinion is that you cannot buy a good table saw for $350. You will do yourself a disservice in the long run. I would recommend buying a nice used table saw with a cast iron top.

The second piece of info you need...do not buy cheap blades.

Craigslist is often a good place to keep an eye out for good used tools. Check your area for any local woodworking clubs that might have members posted their saw for sale. Or even check stores such as Woodcraft and inquire about any local woodworkers trying to unload a saw. 

Might take a little patience, but it'll be worth it.

Matt


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Matt Guyrd said:


> FWIW, my opinion is that you cannot buy a good table saw for $350. You will do yourself a disservice in the long run. I would recommend buying a nice used table saw with a cast iron top. Matt


I agree with Matt. I bought my saw in 1972. It's a Rockwell contractor's model...with a 
V-belt, not the cogged belt. Some time after that, Rockwell was bought by Delta. 

Delta has a web site, and I'm still able to buy parts for my old saw. I've built thousands of bee boxes, bottoms, and covers. Built all the windows in the original section of my house, and all the cabinets, etc. I've found it to be an excellent saw over the years. I looked at new saws recently. I'd like to have two, so I can leave one setup with dado blades, and the other with saw blade for ripping and crosscutting. The new saws seem too big, and would make me bend over too much to be close enough to the work.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

A used Rockwell/Delta contractor is your best bet. The Model 10 was the best of them. The next purchase should be a Biesemeyer on clone fence. Watch Craigslist in your area and check pawn shops. Winter is when a lot of them get sold, then when the weather warms they get re-bought.


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## nc_beekeeper (Jul 11, 2007)

I've been using Dewalt tools for years with no complaints. They make a model no. DW745 that is carried at Lowe's and Home Depot that is in your price range. If all you'll be using it for is making hives it will do all you need. They just came out with this saw recently, and the only setback I see is that it has the max rip is 16". This is only a problem if you rip your plywood for your telescoping covers on it, as it is around 19" X 21". I have the model no. DW744X which has a max rip of 24 1/2" . This is nice if you have someone to help you, as you can rip a sheet of plywood in half. If you've never tried to rip a full sheet of plywood by yourself, don't. It's much easier to strike your lines and rip it with a circular saw.


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

*saw*

my rigid is AMERICAN MADE, very strong and solid


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## Matt Guyrd (Nov 28, 2007)

danno said:


> my rigid is AMERICAN MADE, very strong and solid


Really?


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## nc_beekeeper (Jul 11, 2007)

I have no complaints with Ridgid tools either. I have a Ridgid Joiner/Planer I use to make my rabbets and it does a great job.


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## Matt Guyrd (Nov 28, 2007)

Matt Guyrd said:


> Really?


Let me clarify...I like Ridgid tools too...just questioning the "AMERICAN MADE" part.

Regarding Ridgid table saws, if you can get your hands on one of the Ridgid Contractor saws with the full-size cast iron top, that would be a good choice.

Matt


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

*saw*

A couple of the nice features of the portable Rigid is it breaks down so if I need it up at the barn I can load it in my pickup and on nice days I can wheel it outside the shop


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Here is a link to a review that helped me to choose my portable tablesaw.

http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/choosing-portable-tablesaws.aspx?ac=ts&ra=fp


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## MrGreenThumb (Apr 22, 2007)

Can the DW745 be used with dado blades? I looked at specs and not see the option listed.

thx


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

MrGreenThumb said:


> Can the DW745 be used with dado blades? I looked at specs and not see the option listed.
> 
> thx


http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbth...&Number=3411230&page=6&view=collapsed&sb=3&o=


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I bought a powermatic tablesaw, It came with a biesmeyer fence. Love it. I was undecided between full tablesaw and kinda portable. From what I read the bosch had the most power in the "mini table saws". I went for the not that moveable saw and am happy. I dont move it much, If I did it over might of spent a couple of hundred more and got the cabnet style."very heavy"

Good luck, Get a good dado blade....


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Your $350 budget just ain't going to get it. You should go hock your car and get a BIG un so everybody will be happy!


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I have a fairly inexpensive budget table saw, a Craftsman which is light weight and belt driven. I have a very good carbide blade on it which makes a huge difference. It takes me longer to make precision cuts, because I have to measure everything twice and go slow to make sure I cut accurately along my markings. I make my boxes, covers, bottom-boards, reducers, etc. Someday I hope to get a really high end table-saw but am grateful for the saw that I have.

Thanks for the tips, I'll keep an eye out at garage sales...


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

looks like you are near Cleaveland.....
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/569711210.html
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/564076936.html
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/532380938.html
or Akron
http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/565398884.html


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

*Agree with most everyone who already posted*

Just wanted to add, I too have a Rockwell Model 10 contractor's saw! Bought it used years ago, have added fence, upgraded motor, new belt, added dust collection cabinet and outfeed table, still can't justify getting anything bigger or better.

Believe me if you can spend that 350 on a used table saw it will be much more bang for your buck. ANything new at that price is pretty much a waste of good money.

Any of those saws that are on the prior post on Craig's list are good saws at a good price. It is a no brainer.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Yes, you would be crazy not to buy any of those contractor saws for $350 - $400. Money well spent!


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I haven't read the whole thread so this has probably been
touched on already.........

Don't forget the old "classics" like 1950's Craftsmans. With
fence upgrades the can be pretty impressive. I have 2
old 50's table saws. They are great.

Scope ebay and sort by distance from you and you may
get very lucky. Like $50 or less.

Then there is the "cool" factor when working with a machine
thats older than myself.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-craftsm...ryZ20789QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

*Here's one in your backyard.........*

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rockwell-Manufa...ryZ20789QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*Decent newer Hitachi........*

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hitachi-10-Tabl...ryZ20789QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*A little drive for pickup......*

http://cgi.ebay.com/0935-Rockwell-C...ryZ20789QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*And one to drool over.........*

http://cgi.ebay.com/Powermatic-70-T...ryZ20789QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Bucks Bees (Feb 11, 2008)

I bought a ridgid last winter and have loved it. I just finished cutting deep and shallows with 3/4 box joints using one of the jig patterns ffrom this forum. Works great. If there is atool show coming to your area, you can get a pretty good discount by buying them there. Last year in Columbus it was $100.00 off normal cost at Home Depot.


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

The best way to buy a tablesaw is used, and it usually includes a few add-on items which would normally cost way more than you can imagine. A general rule of thumb with tablesaws is the bigger and heavier the better but the more difficult it is to move around.

If you have never used a tablesaw before you will be horrified by the amount of debris and dust it generates in a closed area. Portable table saws let you roll them out of the garage where you can make a mess on the driveway instead of the garage.

The only one in your price range is the Craftsman 21829 which sells new for $380 when on sale to Craftsman Club (free) members. This is a portable version of what was sold as the Ryobi BT3100 that has virtually a cult following. Its best feature is the sliding table and it is an enclosed direct drive saw which has a shop vac attachment. It still makes a mess, but nothing like a contractors saw does. FWIW, Consumers Digest likes it (tinyurl.com/3cyc6p).

Unless you can find it used, the Siemens 4000-09 which was recently replaced by the 4100-09 is out of your price range. The 4100 has the latest European safety features and the 4000s were on closeout at Amazon at $350 but suddenly rose in price again.


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## Robee (Dec 9, 2007)

If all I wanted a saw for was home projects or making a few bee hives, I wouldn't spend $350 for a saw.
I am a carpenter by trade and have a little Makita job saw that I can pick up with one hand. I set it on a bench or saw horses and I have ripped miles of boards over the years with this little saw. I rip plywood with a straight edge and circular saw. If I needed a replacement, I would probably buy another small jobber like a hitachi or something. If I was setting up a home shop, I may want something better like that ridgid, dewalt or craftsman.
for $350, you could buy a hitachi or something similar with a stand from Lowes. (around $150) dado blade set ($50 -$75) no circular saw? (another $100) have a circular saw? use that $100 for lumber.
Making cabinets? You can probably find a useable saw for around $1500.
Rob


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I'd stay away from any direct drive saw. Motor bearings are just not as rigid as a true arbor, especially when you want to mount a dado blade.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

If you can't find a true cabinet saw for less than $1500, you're not really trying. I see tons of Unisaws and PM66's for under a $1000. I know where a Northfield #4 is sitting right now for $800.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

OK Ross, now you have my attention. If you find any "Old Iron" near Berkey Ohio, please let me know!  There will be a sweet treat in the mail for you!


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

OK, Teledo area and Detroit looks driveable...

Delta contractor with Biesemeyer for $150
http://toledo.craigslist.org/tls/559987350.html
Delta 12-14 
http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/567368594.html
Jet
http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/553851311.html
Delta
http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/548019238.html
Delta Rockwell model 10 for $75
http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/547687898.html
And a Unisaw with Unifence for $750
http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/541657943.html

Seriously, the trick is to look every day. The deals don't last long, but they are out there. Check Craigslist, eBay, local shopper rags, large metro newspapers, and auction listings. I paid for my shop by buying and reselling and upgrading in the process. Now I have a PM66, Delta 18" planer, Northfield 16" HD jointer, PM60 planer, Delta 20" bandsaw, a pair of 32" Crescent bandsaws, 14" Delta wood/metal bandsaw, etc, etc. I'm starting on my metal working shop now. I want to have all the toys in place before I retire.


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## Robee (Dec 9, 2007)

I think most of these are great deals. Especially if they are new. That was one of the requirements, I believe,
Let's see.
1- good enough to make hives
2- under $350
3- NEW

Ok, maybe we got a little off subject here. LOL I am sure that is OK. Makes for good conversation.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Robee, you are correct. But we'd be remiss to not bring out
the valid point that all new $350 table saws are crap compared
to a good used quality saw. 

Every new saw I've seen in the $350 range is usually chinese
junk badged for US sale.

A good used Unisaw at $350 is a steal on the buyers part. A
new $350 junk saw is a steal on the sellers part.


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## Robee (Dec 9, 2007)

That is true Sundance, so true.
Rob


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

*Table Saws*

We have an older Craftsman with cast deck that I bought cheep & rebuilt.
What a fine machine, cast iron deck,the works.
Also have a contractor grade Delta that takes 2 men & a boy to move.
Also have one of those $100 Menards POS that is just a joke.
By all means fine a good older model & stick some cash into it if you have to.
These are much better units than almost any thing that you will purchase new now days.
You wont be sorry.


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## joekurm (Sep 23, 2007)

Here is something else to think about. I have an inexpensive (Gheap) Delta portable saw. It works well for many things that I do. When I wanted to make box joints for some hive bodies, the arbor wasn't long enough for my dado blade. 

Are you making box joints or rabbets?

I deciided to buy my boxes instead of make them. By time I bought the wood and put in the time I didn't feel that it was worth making them. I found a local place to get them from for $5.25 a medium and $8.25 for a deep.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

I bought a new one 1 1/2 ago, I was looking for the best saw I could find all the way around, I looked at all the craft-mans saws even the $1000.00 saw have more plastic than a lot of toys, flimsy rip fences and wobbly legs just worthless in my book, I did find one made of all metal and the tightest and best rip fence I found and it was on a $600.00 Rigid saw so I bought it and am very pleased with it, best saw I have ever used. a good saw is worth the extra money, I understand not wanting to spend much but when buying a table saw get a good one even if you have to save a little while before buying. here's the saw I bought.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/TS3650-Table-Saw/EN/index.htm


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

joekurm said:


> I deciided to buy my boxes instead of make them. By time I bought the wood and put in the time I didn't feel that it was worth making them. I found a local place to get them from for $5.25 a medium and $8.25 for a deep.


I guess it depends on the price of the wood. If you go to the lumber store, and pay those high prices, then maybe it isn't worth making your own. If you have a mill nearby, then it may be different. I can buy industrial grade 1x12 lumber for $.20 a foot. Winds up costing about $2 for a hive body.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> I guess it depends on the price of the wood. If you go to the lumber store, and pay those high prices, then maybe it isn't worth making your own. If you have a mill nearby, then it may be different. I can buy industrial grade 1x12 lumber for $.20 a foot. Winds up costing about $2 for a hive body.


You also have to take into consideration what you feel your time is worth, as rough stock will have to be planed, sized and worked into boxes. Instead of sitting in front of the TV in the evening, I think my time is well spent in the workshop. I get "shorts" from an Amish mill down the road for 15-25¢ bf, quality varies from clear to #2. Sometimes I get poplar or basswood, too. Fun to work from rough to finished. Just don't think of it as work, and make those cold, snowy winters worthwhile - before you know it you will need those new boxes for brood and honey!

Ditto what mostly everyone said on saws. Don't get a cheap crap$man if you can afford a used cabinet saw. BTDT... Delta, Powermatic, Jet... save up if you have to - go with more metal, little or no plastic, larger HP motor. My advice - free, but priceless.

MM


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Mike hit it on the head. If you have cheap wood, it can be worth it. Of course time is also a factor. I found I couldn't easily beat Dadant's price since I could pickup and not pay shipping or sales tax (ag product). On raw wood, I have to pay tax, and I don't have a ready source at a cheap price. My time is also worth something to me since I have a real job and a bunch of other hobbies I enjoy. I do find it worthwhile to make tops and bottoms as those are over priced for the amount of wood involved. Traditional construction methods, developed long before plywood was common and the glue was weatherproof, are too complex for today's world. Piecing tops and bottoms from planks is crazy today.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

MapMan said:


> You also have to take into consideration what you feel your time is worth, as rough stock will have to be planed, sized and worked into boxes.
> MM


The wood I get is already planed, MM. The biggest problem with it is the edges. There are some boards that don't have a perfectly straight edge. I use a block plane. Two or three swipes usually takes care of it. Ripping and crosscutting doesn't take much time at all. 

Of course, in my dream shop I'd have a joiner.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

*saws*

hello
one thing to consider is arbor/ how long is it? can you use a dado blade. as for fancy get a belt driven,the miter well I welded mine in a 90* dregree I don't miter boxes it makes bee boxes. as for price older craftsman work great less plastic. got one for under 50.00 no need to make fancy box joints a rabbit joint holds as well. most newer saws don't have the arbor shaft to use a dado blade,those table tops wont hold up long and if your blade gets little dull forget sawing then.
Don


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