# Starving out a package in a Warre!!!



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

First post here. Thought all you alternative folks could help me out. We shipped packages to a lady in the Crater Lake area of Oregon this past week. Shipped Wednesday and she received them on Thursday. Bees were fine and install went OK. 

She put them in this: 

http://houseofbees.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/HouseOfBeesWarreBeeHivePlans.pdf


Yesterday was cold and last night it went in to the 20's. This morning she looks and most of the bees are goners on the bottom board from what I deduce is starvation. 

From what I can glean she put an inverted jar feeder above what she called the cloth. From the plans this looks like a screen. My guess is that the bees could not access the holes in the feeder or so many were blocked by the screen that the were getting to little feed for the temps. 

Any ideas or suggestions on how to feed in this style without killing them? 

Phil


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

Starving in one day??? I would be wondering if moisture and cold got to them, worst combo ever!
You said "packages" did all packages die?


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

If they couldn't get to the feed they certainly could have starved out overnight. The feed needs to be where the cluster is. I've had someone install a package on foundation and fail to feed them resulting in starvation overnight. (they used an entrance feeder or some other feeder that was away from the cluster).

However, there is no reason why the bees couldn't feed from the jar though the hardware cloth IF the top of the jar was directly on the hardware cloth (and of course the cluster was right under the hardware cloth). However, your typical mason jar with a separate ring and lid won't work because the lid is recessed slightly. The combination of the hardware cloth and recessed lid can be too much for the bees to reach. A simple fix is to install the lid upside down. It will leak a bit but then the lid will be flush with the rim. (The direction you happen to punch the holes in the lid can add a little distance as well)

So I suspect you are right. They did starve and simply couldn't reach the feed or the feed wasn't near the cluster. The simplest thing to do may be to place the jar right on the top bars, at least until the package gets established.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you put a jar feeder using a canning jar and typical 2-part canning lid (with holes), the lid is _recessed _when installed normally. If you put that over a _screen_, the bees may not be able to get close enough to the recessed lid to be able to take syrup. Reversing the lid so the recess is inverted (now protruding) should solve that problem. The rubber seal will then be on the wrong side, so make sure the jar doesn't leak.

One piece lids may not have that recess, so that may be an alternative if you have one piece lids available. Or use the jar somewhere other than sitting on the screen.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

djei5 said:


> Starving in one day??? I would be wondering if moisture and cold got to them, worst combo ever!
> You said "packages" did all packages die?


You caught me... MY mistake. She ordered and received only one package. After making up and shipping ( or having people pick up) over 1000 this week life is a blur and my brain is tired. Sorry..


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## House of Bees (Apr 27, 2014)

tarheit said:


> However, there is no reason why the bees couldn't feed from the jar though the hardware cloth IF the top of the jar was directly on the hardware cloth (and of course the cluster was right under the hardware cloth). However, your typical mason jar with a separate ring and lid won't work because the lid is recessed slightly. The combination of the hardware cloth and recessed lid can be too much for the bees to reach. A simple fix is to install the lid upside down. It will leak a bit but then the lid will be flush with the rim. (The direction you happen to punch the holes in the lid can add a little distance as well.


Hi I'm Darren from houseofbees.com. I just wanted to say the above quote may be correct. I've also seen holes that were too large and they soaked the bees.

I give away plans to the Warre after receiving many requests. I have in the past gone into great detail on the relationship between the jar lid and the screen. I've had many newbees fixate on the measurements and details without getting the basic concept of the jar feeder. I've been asked "How do the bees open the jar?" What is the precise information to give on any subject in beekeeping?

I always stress to EVERYONE interested in beekeeping "JOIN A CLUB, TAKE CLASSES OR HAVE A MENTOR WORK WITH YOU BEFORE YOU GET STARTED!!"

Hopefully that helps,

Darren


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Starvation is always an issue to be dealt with in cold weather. They can't take cold syrup. They have no stores. They need sugar to stay warm (let alone do anything else). Assuming they have access to the feeder (I don't know how this was set up in a Warre') then the other issue is to have the syrup warm. I heat it to where it won't burn your finger and feed it. That buys enough time for all of them to tank up. I continue to heat the syrup at least once a day until the nights are 50 F or so.

I often feed over a #8 hardware cloth screen. But that leaves openings where they can get a bit of their mandible through as well as their proboscis. How flat the lid is and which way the holes are punched, as mentioned are also an issue as to how well they can reach it.


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