# Newbie questions, hoping not to offend with ignorance...



## kwclr (Feb 2, 2016)

Total newbie here, begging for some direction from the experts… I have attended my local extension service class and some symposiums at a local bee farm, but very nervous to screw up as I’m likely to do. Thanks for humoring me.

I live in Little Rock, Arkansas and am planning to start my first hive this spring. Location will be In my urban, fenced, relatively small backyard. Some tree cover, but probably a half to 2/3 day of mid-morning and mid-afternoon sun (only good spot I have). 

I desperately want to start out as “treatment free” and natural as possible. So I’ve gotten some good personal advice from Mr. Bush (yes, he replied to my e-mail personally, pretty cool!) and his book. But so many doubts and questions are in my head…

I have a package of Italians on order from a local bee farm, which are really good folks, but probably just kept in the standard fashion with chemicals and large cell foundation. They’ll be ready in late April. I am setting up a Langstroth (ordered 4 medium 8 frame boxes from a man around here who uses local eastern red cedar for a good price).

The small, natural cell size argument makes alot of sense to me, so I plan to purchase 4.9mm waxed plastic foundation frames, as per Mr. Bush’s advice, and just start the package right in the new box and frames. As per Dee, I’ll keep an excluder on the bottom to hold the queen until she starts laying. I assume that I’ll need to feed to help them get started with their wax. But I’m torn on giving them sugar syrup… but yet I see no other option since I’m just starting.

I guess I’ll get a mite board and see what drops, but would rather hope that I don’t totally screw up and lose the hive without any treatment. I would love to have some honey later in the summer, but from there, I’m just going to have to figure it out. 

Thanks to anyone that has any honest advice and/or the time to share their wisdom.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sugar syrup is the best for feeding a package. It's not the most nutritious, but everything else has a bigger downside. Any sugar that has solids in it or molasses in it (brown, raw etc.) is not good for bees. Honey sets off robbing too easily. I would stick with sugar syrup until they have some capped stores. Then I would stop feeding.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

Do feed them. If it was a nuc or an actual swarm(full of honey ready to build wax) then you may not need to. A package very much benefits from being fed.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

Don't be totally locked in to not treating . Yes , I know this is the TF forum , and I don't plan to treat either ... but if it's a choice to lose everything or treat I'll treat and not regret and then figure out why . Now , having said that , you need to sit down with your bee supplier and ask him if he treats and about what treatments he uses if he does . If he does treat , you'll probably have to treat too . I was lucky enough to find a guy up here in Mtn View that doesn't treat and has been breeding for TF for I think it's 13 or 14 years now . Even so , I will be monitoring mite levels closely this summer . My queens are all descendants of my original TF queen and I don't know what they mated with or if they've lost some of the TF qualities he bred into them . If you don't know how to do a sugar shake or alcohol wash , there are instructions on this site . Sticky boards are not the best indicator of the actual mite levels ...


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

welcome to the forum kwclr. it sounds like you've be diligently doing your homework, good for you! if you can find anyone reasonably close to you having success keeping bees off treatments, and especially if they are making bees and queens available, connecting with them and following their lead would be your best bet.

to the moderators: would it be possible to have a listing somewhere on the forum of our treatment free members along with their locations so that beginners like kwclr might be able to reach out as locally as possible for advice and/or bees?


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Welcome to BeeSource! I'm working on the genetics in my apiary to get bees that are more mite resistant so I don't have to treat (or use minimal treatments) in the future. Good luck this year.


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## kwclr (Feb 2, 2016)

Thanks for the information, Ya'll are awesome! 
Yes, it would be great to start a listing or location map of TF members, and/or a listing of TF (maybe even small cell) bee suppliers.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Are you in the Heights or west Little Rock? See if you can find someone who does cutouts who will sell you an untreated feral mutt queen or hive. You will want two hives or a friend who has a hive in case of emergencies.


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## kwclr (Feb 2, 2016)

I'm in the Heights, actually they call the northern part, in the back, Parkview addition, I can see the river through the trees in my backyard. I don't know of any beeks in my immediate area. My package is on order from Bemis honey farm.

Thanks for the tip. Little Rock only allows two hives per, within the city, so based on recommendations like yours I think I'm going to step it up to two.


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## kwclr (Feb 2, 2016)

I've seen Dee recommend honey Supercell for honey supers. Do you guys agree? Or just use the same Mann lake waxed plastic foundation that I'm putting in the brood boxes?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Honey Super Cell is fine once the bees are using it. But you have to get over that hump of getting them to accept it and that takes them having no other choice for about two weeks. It sets them back about that much. It's wonderful stuff once the bees are accepting it. But it is heavy and expensive. The Mann Lake PF100 series (or PF120 series) will work fine.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

squarepeg said:


> to the moderators: would it be possible to have a listing somewhere on the forum of our treatment free members along with their locations so that beginners like kwclr might be able to reach out as locally as possible for advice and/or bees?


Sure. Start a thread about this and I'll make it a sticky.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

will do barry, many thanks.


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## kwclr (Feb 2, 2016)

Riverderwent said:


> Are you in the Heights or west Little Rock? See if you can find someone who does cutouts who will sell you an untreated feral mutt queen or hive. You will want two hives or a friend who has a hive in case of emergencies.


As per your advice, I've found a supplier nearby in Tennessee (Wolfcreek) still taking orders for spring packages of "mutts" that are already on 4.9mm small cell and have been treatment free! They said that this lineage is a genetic mixture of feral bees and others that they've been working with for 8 or 9 years now. Sounds promising and I think will give me a stronger start...


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