# Renting Bee's



## chevydmax04 (May 11, 2009)

I am new to bee keeping and I am finding to be very relaxing and enjoyable to me. Question I have is I drive by huge apple orchards daily, I see them starting to bloom and I see an opportunity place hives and make some extra money. This would be a 2010 thing but I am wondering how much the growers pay to have hives brought into their fields for pollination services.

Thanks
Steve


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

For me it depends on how many hives they take and what they are pollinating. For cherries, blueberries and most of the apples its between 45-50 per hive. I have a few apple orchards that don't spray so I leave the hives there all summer and charge 25 per hive just to justify taking them north earlier than I'd like to.


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## AndreiRN (Jun 13, 2008)

chevydmax04 said:


> This would be a 2010 thing but I am wondering how much the growers pay to have hives brought into their fields for pollination services.


Knock in the door and ask.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

AndreiRN said:


> Knock in the door and ask.


I would knock ON the door...if you knock it IN you might get shot.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Get what ever you can. I get from some $85 per hive and others I get all the fruit I want. My wife likes the fruit and I like the money.


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## chad (Apr 26, 2009)

do you charge per week?


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## chevydmax04 (May 11, 2009)

That was going to be my next question, is that per week, month or the duration of the bloom for that particular crop.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

chevydmax04 said:


> That was going to be my next question, is that per week, month or the duration of the bloom for that particular crop.


My fees are for the duration of the bloom.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

The Honey Householder said:


> Get what ever you can. I get from some $85 per hive and others I get all the fruit I want. My wife likes the fruit and I like the money.


what do you pollinate ron? my guys would not pay if i went that high. $48 is what i get in the berries


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

i just got my checks for $60 on apples for under 32 hives. price breaks to $50 for more then 32 hives. 

there is always some bottom feeder out there willing to rent for nothing. quality bees with 6 or more frames of bees rent for more then a package with hardly any brood.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Bud Dingler said:


> i just got my checks for $60 on apples for under 32 hives. price breaks to $50 for more then 32 hives.
> 
> there is always some bottom feeder out there willing to rent for nothing. quality bees with 6 or more frames of bees rent for more then a package with hardly any brood.


I hope thats not a referance to me. I have never met a "bottem feeder" there is no competion for pollination. I can charge lower prices because I rent more than 5 hives at time.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

I try to avoid using the term "renting bees".
This implies that if the grower pays the "rent" they are intitled to do whatever they want with or around the hives.
Like let their neighbor or brother in law who "knows something about bees" look around in hives for example.
Or move them around with a tractor after you are gone.
All of this is covered in a good pollination contract that specifies in bold that the hives are nor to be touched or disturbed in any way.
The contract allows for hive inspection at the growers request, having the beekeeper opening and working in the hive at that time.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I use the term rent because that's what I do. If you RENT bees they fall under rental income and the money is not subject to self employment tax.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

dbest said:


> I use the term rent because that's what I do. If you RENT bees they fall under rental income and the money is not subject to self employment tax.


HA, good luck on that one.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Rental Income*

Yup, been tried before. IRS disagrees.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Um ok well, 2500 hives and have been filing that way for 42 years (well my father has been). It is a rental, not a service. The grower rents the bees for the duration of the bloom if it rains the whole time and the crops don't get pollinated I still get paid.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Denny*

I wish you the best, really...

But beekeepers that have gone head to head with the IRS on this issue have been disappointed.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

*Ask my CPA*

Maybe my CPA doesn't understand renting. I haven't paid self employment tax on the rentals.:scratch:
Sorry Tom


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

*bee townhouses rent*

But wait I rent all my hives out to those little bees. I only make them pay rent twice a year. The only thing is they pay in HONEY. So do I have to pay self employment tax on the honey sales too.:lpf:


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Ron*

Quit messin around! This is serious business for those of us who have TOO MUCH INCOME!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

dbest said:


> It is a rental, not a service. .


Question: is there labor envolved ?
: is there equipment envolved ?
:is there any other source of income other than rental ?
: what percent of percepatation do you play a part of ?

DBest...... good luck.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I don't understand the "good luck" part. This is common practice. Its how I've been doing it for years as have other beekeepers. My mother is Tax professional. Just like renting farms out and farm machinery. I know farmers that rent out dairy cows. I've know a farm that rents bulls for mating. You act like I made this up in an attempt to screw the gov't. I almost forgot about renting bee's for honey production.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

dbest said:


> I almost forgot about renting bee's for honey production.


how do you do that? in my operation i own the bees personaly but rent them to my company thus it takes all the liability and responsibility of the hives, this cuts down on the tax.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

dbest said:


> Just like renting farms out .


OK, I will try one more time. Denny, who puts the bees in the orchard?
Who machine (forklift) is it ? Who is the person that is caring for the hives?

This is not renting.... this is a service. 

You have put a label of "renting" on it, but your company is doing ALL the work,ie, (labor, resources, knowlege,winter locations ect...)


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

All of that is inevitable. I am a honey producer that "rents" bees when there is nothing else for them to be doing. Just like a dairy farmer that rents out cattle to other farmers. When I rent out farm land I still have to run the drainage maintain the PH of the soil, pick the rocks, trim the trees off of the head lands and the government calls it rent. So is it a "Land service" ? When I rent a back hoe who changes the oil, stores it, picks it up and drops it off, absorbs all of the problems?


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

just cause you can find a CPA or whatever that says do it this way or that and you never get a letter from the IRS does not mean squat. 

in fact more then one IRS auditor may also have two separate opinions. 

You could cruise your whole life filing one way or another and then like Willie Nelson end up owing back taxes when you are 78 years old and can't get out of your chair to crack a lid anymore. 

call the IRS from a payphone and run that rental scheme by them - and then call back and ask the next Shmoe who answers the phone the same thing and see what you get for answers. please let us know what they say.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Bud*

Are you sure? I was thinking that Denny was ahead because they could only go back seven years.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Bud Dingler said:


> just cause you can find a CPA or whatever that says do it this way or that and you never get a letter from the IRS does not mean squat.
> 
> in fact more then one IRS auditor may also have two separate opinions.
> 
> ...



That's a little far fetched. I think I will just continue with what I'm doing, which is referred to as "common practice". I went to one of those fancy farm seminars and learned these big terms. You can continue to pay taxes how ever you see fit. Lord knows the government can use money.


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## Bee'z waxed (Feb 8, 2008)

*okay so...*

Back to the original meaning of the thread.. If a person wanted to get into pollination contracts, how many bees would be a good starter? I have people who continually ask if they can get some of my bees for their crops and my personal thought is, 'it is a small garden', and 'I don't have that many bees', so where do you start with it, and when should you quit the 'small time' and go big?? Has any beekeeper brought in their club to fulfill a contract??


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