# Top bar in IL



## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

I live in northern IL, I am being told that it is too cold here for a TB hive. Is there any truth to this? Do I have to do anything differently with a TB in cold climate?


----------



## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

I know that Michael Bush uses them and states that they can be used in cold weather, but will the require any modification to work in cold weather? Does the design have to be at all different? Thank you!


----------



## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

cant say i ever used a top board but i would think the reasoning behind them saying that is bees move up in the cold BETTER than side to side seeing how heat rises but i am sure it can and is done


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I overwintered a TBH here in WI in 2008/9. I used an insulated top cover, but otherwise made no alterations to it. I used Michael Bush's design.


----------



## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

Adrian, you only tried it once on 08/09? Why did you give it up?


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Yes. I am cheap, and didn't want to spend the big-bucks on the cost of Langs and then find out I didn't like bees. So when in the winter of '09 a local beekeeper posted on Beesource that he had enough lang equipment for 4 colonies that he was giving away I responded. As I was the closest I got the equipment. In the spring I cut out the TBH and put it in lang frames. I don't regret starting the TBH as it gave me some valuable experience and confirmed that I do like bees.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I overwintered three here last year, several nights dowb to -15 to 20 degrees F. They started brooding weeks more even months later than my Langs and they still wanted to swarm sooner. Broodnests never got much bigger than 10 medium frames. No thanks. Cut them all over i tp Langs this spring. Such a better hive. 

I used Les Crowder's design.


----------



## MartinW (Feb 28, 2015)

-I live in northern IL, I am being told that it is too cold here for a TB hive.

This spring, two Milwaukee backyard beekeepers presented at our Dane County Beekeeper meeting. Both beekeepers kept TBH and Langs. They reported 70-100% over-winter survivorships in their TBHs. One reported a four year survivor TBH colony, the other one 5 year survivor. They both insulated the tops of their hives and wrapped their hives. I don’t think cold weather is a barrier to keeping TBHs in WI or IL.

Good luck.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Dennis Murrel has them (or at least had them for years) in Casper WY which is much colder than here. I've had them survive -27 F for a few weeks at night in the winter here. Cold isn't an issue.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm#winter


----------



## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

Thank you all for responding. I am going forward with the TB hive. One last question, should I modify it any way with extra insulation, etc?


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I am a firm believer in top insulation. If you rest a piece of 2 inch pink foamular stryrofoam on top it will give you a "r" value of 10. This is equivalent to 10" of pine. Or you could buy 2 pieces of 1 inch and stack them on top of each other for the same effect.


----------



## erikebrown (Oct 27, 2014)

TSWisla said:


> Thank you all for responding. I am going forward with the TB hive. One last question, should I modify it any way with extra insulation, etc?


I live in Virginia so the cold is not quite the problem it might be for you. From what I've read, I would pay attention to the height of your hive as much as whether to insulate. Les Crowder's design, for example, is only 7 or 8 inches high. Wyatt Mangum's design is more like 9 or 10 inches and may winter better. My TBH is of the Phil Chandler variety which is between the two (about 8-9 inches) and seems to be doing fine so far. In the fall the colony placed 3-4 inches of capped honey across the first 10 frames, with brood below. I imagine this allows the bees to move horizontally throughout the winter. I insulated the top with a foam board for extra protection.

Fedor Lazutin's book Keeping Bees with a Smile has an extensive discussion on wintering which is one of the more interesting I've read. He's a Russian beekeeper, and uses a tall horizontal hive very different from Langs or TBHs. Russian winters are much colder and longer than anything we have in the U.S., and he quotes both research and experience in an in-depth discussion of how bees overwinter. He advocates insulation, of course.

Good Luck!

Erik


----------

