# Anybody using a queen cell timing box as described by the fat bee man?



## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

I like the idea of having my favorite queen on 4 frames, in a single box, during grafting season. You swap a brood frame that is mostly full and capped, with a frame that is mostly empty. And 4 days later you graft from that frame. I haven't been able to find any literature on it, much less plans. Nothing other than the FBM video on the subject. I'm really surprised I couldn't find it on bee source which is probably just my inability to get the search correct. So I thought I would ask.

Does anybody use a queen timing box?

Pros, Cons or problems. If you know of a beesource thread on a link to someplace else with info on the subject, i would appreciate it. 

The only thing I didn't like is that you can't pull the #1 or #10 frame and slide frames allowing you to pull a frame with plenty of space on all sides. You have to put one of the 4 center frames directly, pretty good chance you are pulling a frame from a tight space with the queen on it, risking rolling her...

Thanks


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Michael Palmer has a video on YouTube in which he talks about how he manages his breeder queens in their vertically excluded colonies where she has something like 4 frames to lay in and the rest of the box is frames he's managing to get larva the age he wants to graft. I don't remember which video exactly, but I think it was published by him, so there's not that many videos (unfortunately) to go through.

He talks very specifically about what frames he's moving and when, the timing, etc etc. I think the last line is something like "And that's how you manage a breeder queen".


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Robbin said:


> I like the idea of having my favorite queen on 4 frames, in a single box, during grafting season. You swap a brood frame that is mostly full and capped, with a frame that is mostly empty. And 4 days later you graft from that frame. I haven't been able to find any literature on it, much less plans. Nothing other than the FBM video on the subject.


I bought his plans, though I haven't used them yet. The whole thing seems pretty straight forward and self-explanatory. I'm just not working on a scale to use it just now, as I am not keeping any II queens or special breeding queens at the moment. But maybe next year.




Rusty


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## Little-John (Jun 18, 2015)

Yes - I made one of FatBeeMan's Timing Boxes - the plan was to use it for both grafting, and to run a Nicot Cupkit system in ...

I run British Nationals which have 11 frames, so opted for a 4-3-4 format, and made a box and stand last year using pallet wood. Actually, everything I make is from pallet wood 










This is what it looked like when brought out of storage this spring ... dusty:










The Q/X's line-up with spaces on either side of the Cupkit frame I've made:










Not shown is a Crown Board (top cover ?) which is divided into 3. Only the central section needs to be removed during queen-rearing, and finding the queen is a doodle - even for me ! The outer 2 sections have feeder holes above, and entrance holes at either side.

No problems at all so far, it works really well. Haven't tried grafting using it yet - still trying to develop competence with the Cupkit system - but I'm gradually getting there ...

LJ


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Well little john, I thought I had done a good job building my box... Your's puts mine to shame, my only improvement was that mine has a freeman beetle trap for a bottom board. Our SHB are terrible this year. I also have a nicot frame that I'm going to try, I cut out enough of the real comb to get it to fit, and it fits perfectly. So I'll be trying that in conjunction with grafting, because I'm not very good at grafting.... Any lessons you learn as you go, please update this thread. 
Thanks,


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

My timing...

The box is a 10 frame with a vertical excluder creating two chambers...3 and 6 combs. Queen is in 3 comb cavity. She has no exit to the outside...fixed entrance block. Most of the brood and bees are in the 6 comb cavity. 

I graft every 4 days. I add a grafting comb to the queens cavity 5 days before grafting. I add another 4 days later and repeat every 4 days. The three combs in queen's cavity are, on the day I add a comb but before I do...starting at sidewall...

A comb that the queen won't or can't lay in...foundation, honey, brood that won't emerge in the next 4 days. The second comb is full of larvae and is the comb I grafted from 3 days ago. The third comb...against the excluder...has eggs and was added 4 days ago. It will have larvae of the proper age for grafting tomorrow.

To add a new comb today to be grafted from in 5 days...Remove the comb at the sidewall on the far side of the excluder. It should be nectar and pollen as all the brood has emerged. Move the 5 remaining combs over, leaving a space at the excluder. Remove comb 2 in the queen's cavity and move it to the space on the far side of the excluder...don't move the queen!! Move comb 1 over into comb 2 position and add grafting comb in space 1. 

Tomorrow, graft from comb 2. Three days later, add another comb to position 1. By the time the combs of brood you move across the excluder reach the far sidewall, the brood has all emerged and you can use those combs somewhere...like for the feed frame in setting up nuclei.


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## Little-John (Jun 18, 2015)

Hello Robbin

with hindsight, there's really no need to have the 'Queen Chamber' in a central position like that. Dividing the box as MP has done would be just as good - if not better - as it would reduce the number of Q/X-dividers required to just one.
The only reason I made the box with 3 chambers was that I had recently watched the FatBeeMan's video - and that format had become etched in my mind. 

Apart from the Cupkit frame - which I wanted to be free of any comb so that I could more easily take it into the house for cell cup extraction - the only other technique I've tried using it with thus far, has been the Miller system.

Miller used 3 'frames' - the principle frame was wireless and had starter strips installed from which new comb was drawn. Then, once that comb had been drawn, it was placed within a 3-frame cavity (similar to the above), flanked on either side by 'Miller Frames' - these were not unlike the Cupkit frame I've made, in that they had a small area of working comb positioned centrally, with the remainder of the frame 'blanked off' by plates (like a dummy board), such that the Queen only had very small areas of comb in which to lay. So - as soon as that newly drawn frame was introduced - the queen would jump on this new comb gratefully, and begin to lay eggs in it straight away. Thus, the timing of those eggs could be judged pretty accurately. Then the edge of the comb was trimmed away such that viable larva would be located nearer to the new edge of the comb. From then on, the bees decide which larva they wish to promote to Queens, and not the beekeeper - which I think must be the best approach. The only downsides I've found to this method are the smaller number of q/cells produced, and that the queen cells, being attached to natural comb, are more difficult to handle and introduce than those formed from plastic cell cups, which can so easily be caged or attached to various objects for introduction.

I'll be trialling this box for grafting any time soon, and intend using the first half of the 'Miller System' to produce the young larvae. 

LJ


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> My timing...
> 
> The box is a 10 frame with a vertical excluder creating two chambers...3 and 6 combs. Queen is in 3 comb cavity. She has no exit to the outside...fixed entrance block. Most of the brood and bees are in the 6 comb cavity.
> 
> ...



Great info Mr. Palmer, Thank you very much.


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