# Flat bed size



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

So I am shopping for a Flat bed truck. I am thinking of one that comes with sides so I can use it for other things also. Also thinking of a lift gate also. I am thinking an Isuzu great gas mileage and cheap used.

So size is my question. I know bigger is better but, Not in this application. 

14' *12/32.5=5.16 =40 Hives
15' *12/33=5.53 =40 Hives
16' *12/33=5.90=40 Hives
17' *12/32.5=6.27=48 Hives
18' *12/32.5=6.64=48 Hives
(feet)*(inches per foot) / (pallet width) = (2 rows 4 hives on each)

I also was thinking if I had a lift gate and put it up I could use it for some extra room and get more on. How large is the lift gate usually and is that a good idea. I am planning on pulling a forklift on a trailer behind. So if I used 14' with liftgate that would make it 18 correct?

What size should I be looking at.?

Also what do you think of getting a box Isuzu and adding a flatbed. This way I have both. Not sure how easy to swtich back and forth though.

Thanks in advance for the advice.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have an F-450 w/ a 14'3" bed on it. I get 5 rows of 4way pallets on the deck and another layer on top of that. That's 80 hives per load.

What do you need a liftgate for? It adds weight to the rear and limits your payload carrying capacity. Besides, if you are using pallets, you need a skid steer loader to load and unload your hives. So you will have trouble w/ a tow hitch for the trailer if you have a liftgate.

Once you have a flatbed you won't want to switch back to the box. Leave it off and use it for storing equipment in. Put it up on railroad ties and it may not be considered permanent enuf to effect your property taxes.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

What Mark said :thumbsup: A 450/550 sized truck with a 190" wb and a 14' bed really hits the sweet spot. The only caveat is if it isn't a 4x4 those trucks with the 19.5" tires pulling a forklift are virtually helpless in slippery or muddy conditions. I own 6 flatbed trucks and the old 02 450 4x2 with the 7.3 is still the workhorse of the outfit.... unless it's muddy.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Jim,
My bed is 102" wide including rub rails. W/ your narrow bed, can you see behind you when you are loaded? I can't see much at all thru the mirrors when I am loaded. I wish the mirrors would extend further, but they don't.

I also have 4WD, which saves my butt regularly. It got me out of a bee yard just last week.

Mine is a 2005 w/ a 6L deisel. Check the fuel useage this last trip North. Less than 8 miles per gallon. Fuel economy seems to be getting worse w/ age.

Have you had any trouble w/ the fuel tanks?

I've also wondered about having a different Bobcat trailer. Maybe something different would pull easier.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mine is the same width, visibility isnt ideal when loaded but good enough for me I guess. No fuel tank problems, only issue was one water pump. 8 empty? would be pretty low. If loaded and pulling a Bobcat trailer, though, its about right. Typical bee yard work without a trailer is 10 to 12 mpg. The absolute best mileage would be around 14. Mine is a 6 speed manual. I have a little over 100,000 miles on it and havent noticed any mileage difference with age. I have a 2011 Dodge 5500 4x4 with 6spd. automatic and aluminum flatbed. Its a lot more truck than the Ford, it easily hauls a ton or so more weight and gets about the same mileage but you have to add the Urea.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Partially loaded and pulling a trailer w/ Bobcat. I haven't gotten above 10 in ages. I have almost 150,000 miles on this truck. I have the 6 speed too.

How do you like the automatic transmission. When I get a new Ford F-450 it will be an automatic because they don't make a manual transmition anymore. Maybe the 550s do.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I really like the transmission, never thought that I would say that. It has buttons for both a tow/haul feature and an exhaust brake that really reduces the wear on your brakes. With the improved braking and heavier suspension and frame you just dont have the sense that you are loaded nearly as heavy as with the 450. Ford dosent even offer a manual transmission anymore. With the Dodge the (6 speed) automatic was a $2300 option. I know the new Fords are excellent as well, I was planning on buying one but when I priced them the Ford was about $4,000 higher for pretty much an identical truck. I havent regretted my decision at all.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Wish I had 4WD on my 02 GMC 6500... guess they never made one that way. Today after spotting where my bees are going tonight.. I see I am likely to have some issues with deep sandy soii. Mark got the good blue berry farm and I got the bad ones... or at least so it seems. I told the owner to keep his cell phone charge as there is a distinct possibility that he may need to drag me out of there about 2:00 AM.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Alight to refocus the thread. 

14-16 foot bed will allow 5 rows. Skip the tailgate lift. Gotcha. I am leaning toward the Isuzu because of the gas mileage. I am going to add sides at some point for much more uses. If I need to haul a lot more of them I will need another truck. Trying to go smaller for now as this is my first truck like this.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Is the Iszusu a Gas vehicle... that could be an issue.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

EastSide, There is no perfect vehicle. Just use what you get for whatever you need to and don't worry too much.

How many hives do you run? What do you need the sideboards for?


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## bfriendly (Jun 14, 2009)

The Isuzu 4cyl diesel (NPR) will be a little underpowered, pulling a trailer especially, hwy will be slow but barley doable. I owned one of the EARLIER ones and I think it was 165hp. I would not want to pull a trailer with full load of bees ........but with just a load of bees on the back, would be great, the things are real workhorses. Just mash the pedal to the floor and go, pretty much. Great truck. 

1994 and newer the Isuzu NPR/ GMCW4500 have slightly bigger engine, then again in 1999. GVW around 14,500. Step up to the 6cyl (Isuzu FRR) and they are nice truck. But mpg and purchase price take a big hit. At that point consider International or Freightliner. Honestly in real life application you will not see incredible mpg with the npr diesel, around 14 max, more like 12, is my best guess. That said I do like cabovers. I think they would make great trucks for bee work. You might also look at UD (Nissan) if parts availability doesn't scare you away. 


Also what you are talking about for a bed is called "stakesides" and most flatbeds will have stakeside pockets, you can build or buy, and easily remove them for bees. Would not want to swap between flatbed and box truck myself. If you realllly need that, set a box on top of the flatbed or something. Buy the boxtruck and set the box in your yard for storage  Then put a flatbed on...


So as these guys are saying f450 can see the same range of mpg figures, and will be able to actually tow 10k trailer loaded. I am a fan of the 7.3 international (pre powerstroke, 87-94) but then again, I have no problem with older vehicles. Or better put can't afford the newer ones, and know how to work on the older ones. You can easily find f450 with 14' bed, if you start looking 99 and up f450 you can actually find a rare one here and there with 4x4. I have a 95 f450 5spd 14' now (powerjoke) I would consider selling. Best of luck. Get a wood deck or aluminum.

Or consider a dodge 3500 diesel cab and chassis (12' bed) 1991-1998, this may give you actual better mileage. Sure wish they made the perfect truck... but they don't, at least in our price range...


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I have 100 hives going to 300 over the next year. I do 4ways, and will be getting a Swinger 1k in a couple months. Like the box idea on the flat bed. StakeSides for hauling stuff would be nice to have. I will check into those others makes and models. Gas mileage is going to be important when we get up in the 4$ a gallon for gas which means diesel will go way up. Most of my bee keeping will be North to Bellingham, Eastern WA and CA so freeway use mainly.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

The thing you start to realize pretty fast is that a loaded Bobcat trailer is the great equalizer when it comes to mileage. Whatever you are pulling it with is rarely going to get north of 10mpg, probably more like 8 to 9. The irony is that the way you can get fuel savings is by going bigger not smaller. I have an IH with a DT466 and a 20' bed. It will haul 70 pallets of singles or 42 pallets of doubles (nearly twice what a 1 ton will haul) and still get around 7 mpg pulling a trailer. I am not suggesting this is a better choice in your case ESB with the numbers you currently have just pointing out that the cost to move one hive drops as carrying weight increases. Airlines have been trying to squeeze profits out of this principle for years.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

jim brings up a good point. we have an older ford with a 12 foot bed and the 7.3 diesel. also we have a small freightliner (fl70) the freightliner has the cummins 5.9. the ford gets 10 mpg while the freightliner gets 12 mpg. the freightliner only has a 15 foot bed but it has a 4 foot sleeper with tv micro wave etc. we can tow a trailer and live in the truck. this truck is over built which makes it a lot safer vs the ford loaded to the max. a very good beekeeper told me once that a beekeeper never has the right truck. he was right. just depends what works for you. good luck


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Jim I have been throwing the idea around of replacing my aging 97 F450. Currently it has a posi rear with 5.13 gears in it. I have been looking at the Dodge 4500 heavily with the 6.7 cause they are boasting 350 HP. What gears do you have in your 5500 and is it Posi?

BTW my F450 only has a 10 foot bed on it and I typically put 72 double deep colonies for local runs. Interesting enough I have considered a larger OTR truck like a Ford 6000 but not sure I want the road tax headache. 

Beeware10 you have to pay heavy road use tax on your FL70 correct?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

bmac no on the road tax. It is under 26000 # gross so its in the same class as yours. we have agriculture plates on it. when registering with agr plates no sales tax has to be paid and this saves a lot. we have to keep a log book when out of state but beekeepers are exempt from having medical, drug tests etc. there is a section in the dot book stating this. buy the small green dot at a truck stop for the details. as long as you are under the 26000 # and you can also pull a trailer under 10000 #.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

BMAC: The Dodge has a 4.88 rear end the specs list 4th as an even 1:1 5th at .77 and 6 th gear at .63 so the rpm's really drop. They may have bumped up the hp this year. Mine is listed at 305 hp, 610 torque and dosent seem underpowered at all with this power train set up.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I appreciate the input. I need a good yard truck. My truck still works, its just losing power and Im starting to have electrical issues with it. I don't really see much advantage from the 4500 to the 5500. They both rate combine weight at 26000 which seems a bit light for 350 HP. Something odd too is they are advertising 800 torque with the automatic transmission but 610 with the standard transmission. Either 305 or 350 if a far cry better than the 175 I am pulling with down the road now. It reduces me to 40 MPH running up the Poconos in PA. I would rather run up at 70!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC,
Throttle down thru the PA mountains. What's your hurry? Surely you have seen the big trucks in the right lane going slow. They still get there just the same.

Back when I had a CB, remember CBs?, running thru PA in my 89 Dodge 1 ton, every now and then I would apologize to the big boys when they had to go around me on those hills. "That's okay, we're all doing the best we can.", one guy said.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Not truly in a hurry I just like to have some power in reserves. I don't generally go over 65 or 70 the entire trip and honestly dont care how many folks pass me. Just time to upgrade a bit.

Oh and yep I do remember CBs. My uncle brings his everytime he goes with me.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

SO I was looking at this as an option.


1997 UD Diesel Flatbed- OBO - - $7200


Hi,
I am selling a 1997 1,400 UD. It is a 6 cylinder diesel that has 233,000 miles on it. It also has a 18 foot flatbed. I am selling it for $7,200 OBO. If you are interested please contact me at xxxxxx Please don't call or text past 9 pm.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That could work. Gotta start somewhere.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

here is a cheaper option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urAj736mdo

I bought mine in 2009. gets between 10-12 MPG and is 6x6.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Don't you mean 12 gallons per mile? How is a 10 wheeler 6X6? Pretty high deck. Where is your ladder?

Neat video.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Don't you mean 12 gallons per mile? How is a 10 wheeler 6X6? Pretty high deck. Where is your ladder?
> 
> Neat video.


LOL That is the same joke my wife likes to tell. It is 6x6 the same way your 6 wheeler F450 is 4x4. Though I am in the process of singling out the rear axles. It has an air shift transfer case with high and low range. The deck is the standard 48 inches. The sideboards both flip down so it can be side loaded, the rear tail gate has steps on it so when it is dropped you have a place to step up. I am also considering having it painted yellow this summer.

They are currently surplussing out a lot of 900 series 5 tons right now, all early-mid 90s model years, 250 Cummins with Allison autos. I am tempted to upgrade.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Hey Blue I can't see the video. Is that a duece?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

bluegrass said:


> LOL That is the same joke my wife likes to tell. It is 6x6 the same way your 6 wheeler F450 is 4x4.
> 
> The deck is the standard 48 inches.
> 
> They are currently surplussing out a lot of 900 series 5 tons right now, all early-mid 90s model years, 250 Cummins with Allison autos. I am tempted to upgrade.


So, the front wheels and one of the rear axles are engaged making it 6x6? Whcih means that both rear axles aren't drive axles? I have a friend w/ a ten wheeler who engages both rear axles when he needs to get out of a slipery situation.

48 inches is pretty high to me. Mine is closer to counter height or maybe 36 inches. I'll go measure it.

I'm tempted to look into a surplus sales vehicle too. I have a friend who buys old trucks so he can work on them and doesnn't spend over a certain amount buying them too. I am surprised he hasn't bought one of these trucks yet. I'm going to tell him about the site, if I remember.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Those are pretty cool yard trucks but I think they only go like 49 MPH. Not very fast for running south. It sure would have come in handy when Irene and Lee blew thru this past fall.

Something to keep in mind about the new 5 tons. They are not street legal as they are too wide and they have air brakes so you need CDL.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Mark. It has 2 rear Drive axles and 1 front Drive axle giving it 6 drive wheels on the ground, the number of tires do not factor into the equation 

BMAC

Mine will do 55, ( I have had it up to 62 according to the GPS) but I know guys who have modified them so they will do 72 MPH. The 5 ton also have hydraulic break systems and they are also street legal. Plus they have power steering which would be a great benefit. (they make a power steering conversion kit, but the cost is prohibitive.) Air breaks don't limit a truck to CDL in any state I have held a CDL in. Some states will even issue an Air Break Endorsement on a standard drivers license. If you run farm tags it is all mute. 

I have made over 1000 mile trips in mine, my average trip is about 200 miles though. Mine is a newer one, 1988 (they stopped making these in 1993) Mine has the the duel circuit air over hydraulic break system. I have a spring ride seat which most M35s do not have. They have a big truck feel when going down the highway, but it doesn't take many miles to get used to. I would not recommend a Deuce and a Half for anybody over 6 ft tall though... I am 5' 10" and have to have the seat back as far as it would go.

So the upside to these is the price... I paid $1358.00 for it, dropped two batteries in it, fired it up and drove it home. I have about $3000 into it now with various repairs I have made. The 5 tons sell between 3-6 K on most auction days. The down side is you have to go through an extensive federal background check to buy one. The wait time is about 3 months for them to process the background check. If you are the type who doesn't like the Gov knowing your business, these are not for you... You can buy them private sale without the background check, but the price will triple.

I have to add a muffler as you cannot hear yourself think in the cab.

The Youtube video is of a Commercial Beekeeper in VA who uses surplus trucks to move his bees around. It was done as an advertisement for the government's auction site.


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## bfriendly (Jun 14, 2009)

If you are looking at the UD, consider ud1800 (not sure about air brakes on these or not), some of the tow companies run them (rollback tow truck). Basically the same truck as the one you are linking to, but heavier gvw. Freightliner (or f800 f650) with 5.9 cummins or International with dt466 are comparable size but more common, same price range, if you are willing to co away from cabover. Here is a possible deal : http://salem.craigslist.org/cto/2805473173.html isuzu frr


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I am thinking my isuzu is a better plan for a starter


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I was talking with my mentor the other day about isuzu's and said why dont you buy mine. It is 1993 with 150k on it. Got another 100k before the engine needs an overhaul and it has a boom. So as long as he sets a good price I will buy his from him. Seems luck is on my side on this one getting one that I have used in the past and know it has been taken care of.


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

East SideBuzz,
you mentioned that your plan is to buy a swinger 1k,they weight 5500lbs plus trailer those Isuzu's tend to be under powered for pulling a load and carrying at the same time.The trucks just don't have the torque.
I have a 2008 dodge 5500 with cummins 6.4 12ft bed (64 doubles,160 singles on 4way pallets) have pulled 33,000 lbs gross of cargo with trailer at 75 mph.
Had the cat taken off and all egr related equipment have a mad max programmer in it. I can cruise at 75 loaded and can still pass as needed
I get 12-14 mpg regardless.
If you are going to be hauling the swinger around with a load, you could be traveling in the slow lane with hazards on!!
swinger is a great choice.

Andy R


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

>>>have pulled 33,000 lbs gross of cargo with trailer at 75 mph.<<<

Funny the differences across our country.
If you drove like that in Oregon you would be hauled to jail for reckless endangerment.
Rightfully so, but that is just my opinion.
55 stay alive.


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## JCA Beeswax Processing (Feb 18, 2012)

I hope I didn't miss this coming in late. 26k weight limit keeps you in a class C non-commercial license. Under 40 ft w/ a trailer under 10K keeps you in a class C license and out of the BIT inspections. Now the good news.....California CARB laws want a retrofit of some type on any 2010 Diesel engine or older no later than 2021 for low mileage and sooner for higher,normal use. Like 2015. So if your in this lovely state or driving in this lovely state you may want to check the rules here as they tend to go national in a few years. So for what it's worth, I have a 04 F550 4x4 that has a 6L engine. I would stay away from this year and engine model-tends to have issues at about 100K miles.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ditto JCA, except mine is an '05 F-450. 2 egrs and oil coolers.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

After reading this I think I will focus on a Ram 5500 with the new 6.7 cummins in it.

If anyone knows can you get the 5500 in 4*4 and can you get it either extended or crew cab?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Yes, you can get both. Been looking at one. go here
http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/2012/ra...&KWID=3166527137&channel=paidsearch#/default/


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I will never buy another Dodge anything. The last 1 I bought was a 97 2500 and I replaced the trans 5 times before I decided to trade it in... They had a lifespan of about 3 months each. Also owned a Dakota which needed a trans in the fist 75 k miles. I did have a 86 Ram Charger once which was a great truck... a tank.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Well I just bought a 2003 ford 550 with 135,000 miles. It does have the infamous 6.0 I bought it because it was 4x4 with a 16.5 foot bed. Ford had replaced the motor under warranty at just over 80,000 miles, and then had new transmission shortly there after. I figured that If necessary I would put in a cummins as the truck meets my other needs. When I got it home it turns out that the egr cooler wasnt replaced when the motor was changed. So since i have the turbo off etc I might as well go ahead and do the oil cooler and high pressure oil pump while I am there.So then I SHOULD be good for another 100 K miles.The cab is tight and over all is in great shape, just gambling to get a few years out of it before any more major repairs :lpf: hope you dont mind the comments. but I saw mark B has about the same thing also.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yes, I did. But I put all the miles on it myself. Having been thru what I have, I would never buy one w/ 135,000miles on it. But, you probably got it for a good price.


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

GB,
You can do a egr delete on the 6.0 will save you money and more headaches 
I have an 04 f-550 w/6.0 been thru 3 turbos, egr valves egr cooler, main engine electrical harness
I would have done egr delete before the cooler went.
my diesel mechanic would charge about $900 for it said it would save that system as well as the head gasket.
Have had great luck with my dodge 6.4 cummins

Andy


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

There is a reason I have heard them called the 6.uh-oh or is it the 6.oh ####


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

thanks for the inpuut guys. I only bought this truck cause of the low mileage motor and tranny. I will likely do the delete as golden meadow suggested.And hope to buy myself some time, as I am just getting going on a commercial basis. should be to around 400 hives bye time we get home from the almonds. It just takes so darn much money to buy equipment etc as I am growing pretty fast. Jim a good friend just bought a 4 door dodge 3500, its a great looking and running truck. But it rides like a lumber wagon how does your new truck ride?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

G B said:


> But it rides like a lumber wagon how does your new truck ride?


It rides like a errr bee wagon  . Good when it's loaded of course. Actually I don't think it rides any rougher than any one ton with a solid front axle, I think the 190" wb helps a lot. Good luck with your new ride. I asked a really knowledgable shop foreman at a Ford dealership recently about his take on the 6.0 and he said he has seen a lot of them run with almost no problems for years but that their fuel systems just can't handle any type of bad or gelled fuel without having expensive repairs like injectors. He really stressed keeping your fuel filters changed.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

thanks guys.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I guess I need to figure out how to use those build your own truck webpages. Wow so that is quite a price tag on those brand spanky new trucks. Oh well. I guess my kid don't have to eat when I go to buy it. HA!


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## Brian Suchan (Apr 6, 2005)

goldenmeadowhoney said:


> GB,
> You can do a egr delete on the 6.0 will save you money and more headaches
> I have an 04 f-550 w/6.0 been thru 3 turbos, egr valves egr cooler, main engine electrical harness
> I would have done egr delete before the cooler went.
> ...



$900 for an egr delete on a 6.0. Holy cow that is pricey!!!!!


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

Brian Suchan said:


> $900 for an egr delete on a 6.0. Holy cow that is pricey!!!!!


it's Massachusetts
I spent about $ 2,000 to do the dodge 5500 cummins 6.4
removed the cat,put straight pipe, installed a madmaxx programmer with pyro and removed all the egr plumbing(about 50lbsof steel)
the truck runs great can pull anything I need it to and travel at speeds with plenty of hps left to pass as needed, I get 12-14 mpg loaded/unloaded
the truck is an 08 dodge 5500 4x4 laramie 84in cab to axle (12ftflatbed)
stole the truck from the dealer when chrysler was having all those problems


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