# Plans for horizontal hive using deep frames



## Mr. C

Probably overkill, but here's mine... also check out Dartington hive for a supperable one. I didn't make plans on the computer but it's about 50 inches... and forget burlap... use multiple inner covers less mess.

http://2people40acres.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/coffin-hive.jpg

I'm sure I have better photos somewhere...


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## MattDavey

Here's mine:




















The box is simply a standard 10 frame Langstroth hive, but the width of 3 boxes put together. So it could take 3 supers. It takes 32 frames. In the photo above I have 2 supers on it with a half width access of each end. 

The base and lids are made of marine grade plywood. I'm now also painting them with Decking oil before using the varnish to improve waterproofing.

The base can be dropped down an inch and then slid out to clean it by removing two runners which hold the floor in place. They also slide out. I'm not sure that I am happy with this or not. Maybe two hinged floors attached on the outside edges and opening from the center would be easier to use.

The floor is as per a standard hive with a height of 19mm (3/4") and entrances cut into it at each end and the center. So it could be made into 3 colonies if wanted.

You can see sort of see the design of the lids in the photo above. They have a gap directly under the plywood top so that the top entrance can be reduced. These are what took the most time to make.
It may be a lot easier to cut 2 pieces of 9mm (3/8") plywood to the same size (half the width of a standard box) and cut a wedge out of the end of one for an entrance and then glue the two together.

I don't use an inner cover, but use a vinyl hive mat cut to half the width of a standard box. This stops comb from being built above the frames. The frames are also (mostly) foundationless with only a 1" strip of foundation used as a comb guide. Foundationless frames dramatically reduce the amount of burr comb in a hive as they have a lot more drone comb. So don't need to make more. They have only ever built in a lid if they ran out of space everywhere else in the hive first.

The legs are cut to a height where it is comfortable for you to put your hands flat on top of the frames. They are attached 1/6 of the length of the box from the ends.


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## KPeacock

I'm out of state right now, so can't get pics, but i made one that holds 30 frames. To prevent bowing, i secured 2X4s to the top of the long sides. i have multiple inner covers so i can open it up a biyt at a time. i have a follower board so the hive can grow with the bees. Instead of a long telescoping cover, i have a gabled roof with hinges on one side. lift the roof open and then access whichever inner cover is appropriate. its a touch heavy, but i won;t have to move it as unit once it is in place, so NBD there.


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## Colino

Below is a link to a site where the guy builds a mean long hive.
http://www.beebehavior.com/modified_european_long_hive.php


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## rhaldridge

Neil, I've been running hives like you describe for a year now, and I like them very much. There was a thread in which I attempted to give some guidance to folks who'd inquired about the way I built the hives:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?286625-Best-hive-for-backyard-hobbyist

I've designed a couple of multihull sailboats. The most inexpensive way to build a one-off multi is with plywood stiffened by solid timber stringers. Built this way my long hives are quite sturdy, and much lighter than a long hive built of solid boards. The sides will not bow out, because the frame rests are formed by the overlap between the upper side stringer and the plywood sides-- plywood is extremely stiff in that plane. There is no issue with the bees sticking the frames in place, or at least no more than in a conventional hive. Mine have 45" sides, which allows the covering boards to be cut from a 2' by 4' piece of 3/4" ply. They hold 32 frames. I just built a couple more, insulated with foam board, for northern NY, where we have a few acres.















I'm actually writing a small booklet for Kindles and other e-readers that will have the exact dimensions of the latest version of the long hive, as well as a bit about the slightly different techniques I've found useful in working them. I'll post a link when it's done. if Barry doesn't mind.

I use foundationless deep frames in these hives, and they have worked very well.

You may have read the same book (by Fedor Lazutin) that I did, and I'm also intrigued by his theories. I'm first going to try the same single-deep long hives that have worked so well here in FL, but if they do not work out in the North Country, I think I may give his extra-deep hives a shot. The way my long hives are made, I can stack two of the long hive bodies to get a similar depth. (Though I'll have to shorten the legs.) As to his extra-deep frames, there are two ways available that make sense to me. Walter Kelley has made end bars available that make frames that will fit 2 deeps. But they are pricey, at $1.25 each-- that's per end bar, each. And they do have the disadvantage that they can't be extracted in a normal extractor. The other way to go, and this is probably what I will do, is to cut the ears off a deep frame and use 2 metal mending straps and screws to fasten it to the bottom of a regular deep frame. The advantage to this is that they can still be separated and extracted. Additionally, with the right sort of jig to hold the upper frame while it's being fastened to the lower frame, you could use regular deep nucs to populate the extra-deep Russian hives.

Anyway, I don't understand why these hives are not vastly more popular than top bars. They really have all the advantages, and none of the disadvantages.


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## NeilV

All those hives are really impressive. I don't think I have the skill to build most of them. 

Ray, I have the book by Lazutin. I've also made plans to have the editor of that book, Leo Sharaskin, come talk at out beekeeping seminar in Tulsa next year. I heard him speak at the Arkansas State Beekeepers Association meeting last month, and that is what got me to thinking along these lines.

If you want somebody to review or make suggestions for your ebook, I'd be happy to help. At the minimum, send me a PM when its ready -- I'll be your first customer.

I agree with the idea that mixing deep frames with a topbar setup makes sense. I see over and over again that the lifting of boxes is a real impediment to some people who might otherwise stick with beekeeping. Also, I think the horizontal hive setup will make it easier to get kids involved in beekeeping. 

If anybody else has photos, plans, or ideas, please share.

Neil


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## Rader Sidetrack

MB has a page on horizontal hives, with photos:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm


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## MattDavey

It's really not difficult. No special carpentry skills or joints needed. Just break the parts down into: box, base, legs and lids.

Other than the frame rest you could do everything else with a hand saw and a drill. It really is just a box that has been gluded and screwed together. Just do the frame rests as Ray does if you don't have a table top saw.

The legs on mine are two capital 'H' shapes. The bottom half has two pieces of wood on each of the legs so that the hive walls are resting on an upside down 'U' shape. Have a look at the photo.


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## Greenride

Matthew, I've looked at your 3x design with lust and am thinking of flattering you by copying what you have done. I wonder about your covers, do they simply butt one another? Do you have any issues with water leaking in? How well do the seal in terms of ventilation?
I have a couple of top bars that made it through their first winter, albeit with some mold due to total lack of ventilation other than a reduced entrance.
Thanks in advance,
Fabian


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## MattDavey

Here's another photo showing the lids:










Yes they just butt up against each other and yes they let water through. So it does need a cover.

On one of my long hives I just have a sheet of plywood over the whole top of the hive, which is strapped down. So it doesn't look that much different.

On the other I have a sheet of PVC plastic and this allows supers to be added on top. So the sheet moulds to the shape. I only use bricks to stop it being blown off in strong wind. This is the one thing that I'm trying to work out if it can be done better.


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## rhaldridge

NeilV said:


> If you want somebody to review or make suggestions for your ebook, I'd be happy to help. At the minimum, send me a PM when its ready -- I'll be your first customer.
> 
> I agree with the idea that mixing deep frames with a topbar setup makes sense. I see over and over again that the lifting of boxes is a real impediment to some people who might otherwise stick with beekeeping. Also, I think the horizontal hive setup will make it easier to get kids involved in beekeeping.
> 
> If anybody else has photos, plans, or ideas, please share.
> 
> Neil


Neil, I will let you know-- should be soon. I've really drawn inspiration from several folks here on beesource. D. Coates' very clever plywood nuc idea showed me that you could build these hives without having to cut rabbets, for example. Paul McCarty gave me the idea for the galvanized roofing, which works very well, and so on.

My basic motivation for the booklet, beyond the compulsion that writers have to write, was to simplify the construction to the point that anyone could make a hive like this, without much in the way of special skills or equipment, (though a table saw is very helpful to rip the stringers.) Matt's hives are beautiful, but intimidating-- he's obviously a gifted woodworker. I built our kitchen table back when our kids were little, and it isn't nearly as pretty as Matt's hives. The German hives referenced in another post are also beautiful, but my general aim was utility, convenience, low cost, and simplicity.

I think these hives are great for beginners. As a beginner myself, I believe I learned a lot more in my first year using these hives than I would have had all my hives been Langstroth. Everything is there at waist level, perfectly accessible, and you can selectively expose the part of the hive you want to inspect, and leave the other parts alone. Another boon to beginners is that until the hive is packed full, handling frames is easier. You can pry out a frame well away from the brood nest, and then use the space to move the remaining frames apart enough that you're less likely to roll the queen.

I haven't attempted to teach about beekeeping basics in the booklet. (For one thing, I'm not qualified.) But I have tried to recount my observations on how things may work in a slightly different way when using long hives. Anyway, it's been an interesting project, Over the last several days I've built a couple more to take up to the North Country, and also to be sure my directions and measurements were accurate. Here's one of them:










I packed it full of frames just to be sure I was telling the truth when I said it would hold 32 frames. I glued foam board insulation into the side panels between the stringers and beneath the bottom, and in winter, I'll add a sheet of 2" foam on top, between cover board and galvanized roofing. I use a top entrance at one end, and screened vent holes in the covering boards.


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## peca777

in serbia almoust all beek abandon horizontal hive because they are against bee instinct to go upp instead side to side


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## rhaldridge

peca777 said:


> in serbia almoust all beek abandon horizontal hive because they are against bee instinct to go upp instead side to side


Back before I had any bees, that's what everyone here told me too. I haven't seen much sign that it's a big problem. I will say that I do encourage the broodnest to expand sideways by constantly adding empty frames during spring buildup. What most folks who have experience with these hives will tell you is that long hives do require more frequent attention. But that's okay for hobbyists like me. We're always looking for an excuse to get into the hives. A great advantage of the long hive is that it's so easy to inspect, even when the hive has grown to the equivalent of three deeps. No lifting boxes, no breaking up the hive into separate parts, which I feel must stress the bees.

Of course, I would cheerfully admit that these hives are impractical if you're trying to make a living from honey. 

I'm not.


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## 1sttimekeeper

Wow! I'm so glad I found this thread. I've lost 5 hives over the past 3 winters with my Langstroth hives (btw, I know it's not the fault of the hives). I went to a workshop a few weeks ago which was presented by a man named Leo Sharashkin. He has been lecturing around the state this winter/spring about the benefits of horizontal deep body hives. I'm going to give it a try. I'm getting two new packages of bees in a couple of weeks. I'm going to start by taking two of my deep hives, cut off one side of each, and connect them. I'll probably build another one from scratch. 

Dr. Sharashkin edited a book about horizontal beekeeping, written by a Russian beekeeper named Fedor Lazutin. The name of the book is _Keeping Bees With a Smile_. It has beehive plans in it. There is also a website: horizontalhives.com with free plans and photo tutorials: http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/hive-plywood-beekeeping.shtml. There is a tutorial for deep frames, as well.

Good luck with your hives this year!
Laura P


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## rhaldridge

I enjoyed Lazutin's book too. My hives are just the usual Langstroth deep depth, and they've worked really well here in FL. I don't yet know how they'll work in upstate NY, but I've made a couple of insulated versions to take up there in a week or so. If they turn out to not winter very well, I'm going to try the Lazutin double deep hives. One of the most intriguing things about the Lazutin book is that Thomas Seeley endorsed it in very strong terms.


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## David Heaf

rhaldridge said:


> I enjoyed Lazutin's book too.


So did I. Although my main hive type is the Warré, out of curiosity I started a modified Lazutin last season, using the top-bars that I had in stock -- National which are shorter than Lang/Dadant -- and made 18" side bars to fit. I retained the double wall, only the insulation I used was reeds. So far it's doing OK. I started it last season from a prime swarm. It swarmed later in the season. It has not yet built the full 18" depth.

www.dheaf.plus.com/framebeekeeping/oneboxhive.htm


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## HappyBeeing

I just bumped an old thread before seeing this one! I'll read through here now, but here were my questions.... I have the Lazuntin book too but didn't want to go 20" deep!

"Would LOVE to hear how your hives turned out and what sizes/types of bars etc you used! I have 3 top bars and just split one. Providing the split makes a queen and lives(got a good split last year so hoping for the best) I want to try out a long hive this year.

Michael-- Why do you think your long hives with deeps have comb collapse? Was it just too-hot summer weather or was it due to trying moving bars or did they cross comb a lot and mess it up,or what? I'd appreciate the reason this happened to you since SO many long hive "plans" say to use deeps.....

Is Anyone using top bars instead of lang frames in your long hive,and if so are you messing with spacers or 2 sizes of cut bars? If so what % are your brood bars? If you use all the same size bar what measurement is it?

Thank you! I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to build my first long hive! I have no langs so don't have lang parts to need to exchange. "


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## flamenco108

David, I've just watched your link and have some pennies to add: Einraumbeute has frame dimensions identical as an old Polish beehive called Warsaw's Widened, which is the Dadant's deep frame turned 90deg. There are 16 and 18 frame-bodies and small, additional honey-super. Polish beeks like this design very much, as it's very neat in management, although it's not convinient for nomadic apiaries. But in Poland we have ca. 1,5mln registered beehives and 60 thousands beekeepers - most of them are hobbyists running apiaries in their backyards. So for most of them the weight and dimensions are not a problem.


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## Cabin

I made two using plans from the acre magazine.


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