# drones from laying workers



## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

they can be used for AI II so they should be fertile


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

They are the same as if produced by a fertile queen, as far as I know. After all, when a fertile queen lays an egg in a drone cell, she doesn't fertilize it w/ a sperm. That would produce a worker.

Which makes me wonder, if a fertilized egg were put in a drone cell, would the worker from that cell be noticable larger than the other workers in the hive?


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Been there done that!

Just to see what would happen, one time I grafted some worker larvae into a bunch of drone comb. Next time i looked, they had all been removed.


----------



## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

I saw a paper one time where up to 24 hours after an egg was laid you could go back and fertilize it I wonder if anyone ever tried that with a egg in a drone cell.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well, if that is what they did, then they must have started w/ drone eggs. Otherwise the layed eggs were already fertilized. I'm not sure what you were refering to.


----------



## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

they collected semen from drones like you do for II went back 24 hours later and fertilized eggs from a drone laying queen but the eggs were laid in worker cells. I wonder if they would be large workers if they were fertilized in drone comb.


----------



## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Looks like forcing a hive to have laying workers would be an effective method of establishing a drone colony for breeding purposes.


----------



## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

No, the easiest way to establish colonies for drone stock is to keep three drone combs out of the 18 frames in a two deep colony. And keep three select stock colonies like that in a yard. That will insure the right type of paternal genetics flying around breeding any virgin queens in the area. TK


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

slickbrightspear said:


> I saw a paper one time where up to 24 hours after an egg was laid you could go back and fertilize it I wonder if anyone ever tried that with a egg in a drone cell.


....if I start seeing bees with your face on them, I will know what happened!

deknow


----------



## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

I hope I'm never forced to watch that video.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Laying workers can and will lay good drones. The problem is QUANTITY! Laying workers will not lay near enough to make it worth it. We through a drone comb in some of our best colonies. They do not get high mite levels as they are VSH and treatment free lines. What happens is I have an area flooded with drones! Some of the hives have what looks like 50/50 drones/workers. That is a little much, but think about all those drones out in the DCA!

Mike


----------



## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

thats funny


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

deknow said:


> ....if I start seeing bees with your face on them, I will know what happened!
> deknow


I think this must have happened to Walter Kelley.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Genetically they should be OK.
This is just a guess on my part, but I don’t think that laying worker hives produce healthy drones. Since they are mainly produced in worker sized cells, I can’t imagine that they are able to develop properly. Some would be indistinguishable from workers if it weren't for their eyes.


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

If they were inferior,,,,development wise, would they be able to compete with the "normal" Drones? Would the queen even mate with an inferior drone? Am I wrong that the Queen is selective?


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Again, I'm only guessing. I expect that drones that developed in worker sized cells would not be competitive with properly produced drones.


----------



## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

You can take a drone laid egg under 2 hours of being laid put seman from a fertile drone and once they hatch and are under 24 hours you can graft into a queen cell cup and place it into a cell builder and this will cut down on having to raise a queen get her mated and wait for her to lay and then regraft and raise another queen. It's a big saver of time it gets the results of (getting your crosses) a lot faster.


----------



## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

In regards to the original question; are drones produced from worker bees viable? I too have wondered if all those small drones produced in worker cells (worker drone laying colonies) serve any purpose. Is their sperm viable and can they compete with regular drones? 
I've often thought maybe it was a last ditch effort by nature to continue on the genetics of the failed queen.
I wish we could get an answer to this question that is backed up by some science.


----------

