# Capturing Feral Bees



## Cactii

My neighbor knows where there is a "wild" honeybee hive in a log. I've never seen it yet but when he mentioned it the first thing I though was that I'd like to go and get it or at least transplant the queen into one of my boxes.

I'm over here in Northern Mexico and don't have much access to beekeeping stuff like all you over there in more developed countries have.

Since I've never seen it I don;t know what to think of it yet. Tomorrow I may go out there and take some pictures to bring back here.

I guess it would be like a cutout. So are these really hard to do? I only have a veil, gloves and smoke. 

When would be a good time to do it too? Right now there are no flowers so all the bees are a lot less active.

Thanks for any help.


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## Beeslave

Treat it like a cut out using a chain saw. Difficulty rating depends on the ability of the person doing it. If you end up not being successfull it will at least be a learning experience for you. Beware they might be really aggresive so smoke them well during the process.


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## Hambone

Unless the log is in danger of being moved/removed, bees being killed. I would leave them. I would set out swarm traps in the area and catch the swarms from that hive. Especially if the hive has been there for years. (Probably good genetics) You could probably get 2 swarms a year from it. I have one location like this. They live in an old run down barn that ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. Caught a swarm from them early this year. Great honey producers, I haven’t seen any mites on them, fast builders. Plan on splitting that hive and let them raise there own queen next year, and capturing another swarm or 2 from the main location.


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## HAB

Inspect the Bees and the Comb well before bringing it home. The last Bee Tree we did the owner wanted us to cut it down after hec got home at five o'clock. We only had time to cut it down plug the entrance with grass and load it on a trailer. Next morning we opened up the log to find it was occupied by more SHB than Bees.:no::no::no:


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## Cactii

Hambone said:


> Unless the log is in danger of being moved/removed, bees being killed. I would leave them. I would set out swarm traps in the area and catch the swarms from that hive. Especially if the hive has been there for years. (Probably good genetics) You could probably get 2 swarms a year from it. I have one location like this. They live in an old run down barn that ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. Caught a swarm from them early this year. Great honey producers, I haven’t seen any mites on them, fast builders. Plan on splitting that hive and let them raise there own queen next year, and capturing another swarm or 2 from the main location.


I like this idea better than me going in and destroying it. This way the established colony is preserved.

Is there any information out there on how to effectively attract swarms?

I seen a swarm about a month and a half ago that went right over me and my hive so I know there are swarms around but I have no idea how to attract them.


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## Beeslave

Search "swarm lure" or "swarm trap"


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## Cactii

I went and looked at this beehive today to see what it would be like.

They seem to be well mannered bees and they weren't real bothered by me being there. Since I couldn't see into the hive very well I took out my smoker and gave the log a few puffs so that I could hear the rumble.

Seems there's a fair amount of bees inside and everything is all strong.

If you'd like to see a picture and read a bit more about it please have a look at my posting here: http://www.beinggreenonline.com/daily-life/im-going-get-stung-doing-bees (article mentions BeeSource.com as well, thank you people)


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## Cactii

Anybody have any advice on how to move these girls?


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## USCBeeMan

Lot of white comb with no bees. Is this because you smoked them heavily?


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## Cactii

USCBeeMan said:


> Lot of white comb with no bees. Is this because you smoked them heavily?


No I never smoked them THAT much.  I just blew a little bit in so I could hear more or less how strong the hive is without moving anything. For this time of year it was pretty active too, but I only have my own hive to compare it too.

The white, empty comb was visible without moving anything. They actually had empty comb on the outside too, just a small piece that I broke off before I took the picture.

Since it's "winter" here and there is no real bloom right now I'm guessing that they've already consumed anything that was ever put in those combs.

Based on the location of their entrance I'd think they're occupying a good 2 to 2-1/2 feet of the log but the log isn't all that big either.

Only will ever know if it's broke open!


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## Hambone

Cactii said:


> Anybody have any advice on how to move these girls?


Like I was talking about earlier. About leaving them. Can you in this case? If so. I would go back with a butcher knife and cut out the comb that is not being used by them, that you can reach easily. It's whiter than I would like to use (Older, darker, the better for swarm traps) I would rubber band that cut comb to some frames and place in a hive setup a 1/2 +/- mile away. Place 4-7 drops of Lemmon Grass Oil (1-2 on the combs, 1-2 at the entrance, 1-2 on top of the frames) Repeat the lemmon grass drops every 4 weeks. During peak swarm season. You probably won't have to repeat the drops.


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## Cactii

I really wish that I could leave them there but the problem is that they could be destroyed at any time and the whole thing would be a loss.

I'm in Mexico and they don't have a lot of respect for nature over here.

A few lots down from this has already been cleared of the type of debris that the hive is made in. I'm afraid that they'll pour gasoline on it or something and then just light it up.

If it was in a location that wasn't being developed I'd leave them but in this case I'd rather try and save them.

Thanks for the info and advice though.


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## SlickMick

Cactii, They seem to be in a position where there is a lot of small and broken timber and your pic does not seem to show a tree as such. Is the colony housed inside a tree or is it outside the tree under a lot of loose timber?

From the pic it seems to be outside the tree and there is a lot of loose timber covering it. If this is the case I think that I would peel off the loose timber covering the colony until I exposed the outside of it.. ie if I took off anything more I would be opening the hive.

At this point you should be able to see exactly what you have and I suspect that you would find that you could be able to remove the timber starting from the outside and moving the comb into frames. Once you get to the bees I would start shaking them into a box which has the colony's brood comb now in frames. Then continue until done

If the hive is actually contained in a tree then you have to remove the part of the tree to your home or where ever you can open up the hive and break down the comb and move it into the frames

Hope this helps

Mick


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## Cactii

SlickMick,

Your correct, it is a fallen tree that has been covered by a lot of debris. The bees don't actually live in the debris but in the fallen tree.

As you stated, I (should) be able to remove all the debris first to get at the fallen tree. Lucky for me wood doesn't last very long over here and I should be able to open it up fairly easily.

You make it sound easy! Thanks 

What I was hoping for is some information on the best time of day to do this. Right now daytime highs are mid 80's but the lows are down to the high 20's.

Yesterday around noon, which was the first time I had seen the hive, they were active and a few bees were flying in and out of the hive. There's not much to eat here for them right now so this makes me wonder if I should have some feed set up for them as well. I like to make candy frames and could have one of these ready before I move them.

Also, I can't move the bees 2 miles and can only move them less than a mile as I have nowhere else to put them. Will that be a problem?


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## SlickMick

Whilst never having removed a tree with bees in it, I think I would go about it this way.

I would clear the loose timber from around the colony and would make any cuts necessary to free the tree from where it is. I would get all your lifting gear attached so that you can swing the tree part onto your transport. I would do this during the warmer part of the day when the field bees are out. At dusk when most of the field bees have returned I would seal the entrance/s and swing the tree and its colony onto your transport. If there are lots of bees that aren't housed I would cover it with shade cloth or something similar so that you dont lose bees during transport. 

Take them to their new location. I dont think 1 mile will be a problem. Leave the entrances covered for a while the next day before you release them. They should orient ok. If you are going to hive them I would let them rest for a few days or so before you go through the process of cutting them out of the tree. Just remember to lie the tree in the same orientation as it was under all that debris so that the comb is the right way up.

I hope that helps and I will be really interested in how you get on with it

Mick


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## USCBeeMan

With temp changes from 20 to 80 I would probably try to remove as much of the debris as possible even if it took a couple of days. Just put a tarp over the and leave an entrance. 

You could then decide how big the colony really is at that time. You can be the judge as to how much time it would take to open the tree to get to the bees. Again, you could put a tarp over the for the night, but I wouldn't do it for more than 1 night.

To me I think it would be best to hive the bees right there as described above. Leave the bees there overnight and then take them home the next night. They will have some orientation to their new hive/home the first night and settle down. Either staple the entrance shut or shove straw or cloth in the entrance before moving them.

Have the place you plan on putting the new hive already prepared so that when you bring them home that night all you have to do is put them in place. Put some kind of top feeder on them at that time. Put a lot of sticks in front of the entrance before opening it up. The more the better so that the will immediately reorientate them selves. (I used the sticks to successfully move a hive around 20'.)

Well now you have a lot of options to pick from. BTW, if you have a 2nd beesuit, you should have someone helping you.


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## Cactii

USCBeeMan,

Thanks for the advice. I like the idea of moving the debris and stuff first. I need to cut some brush back so that I can have good access to the site as well. I'm sure I'm going to want to be as comfortable as can possibly be and have unimpaired movement.

I didn't know that I'd be able to leave them there like that, so that is good news.

Right now I'm wishing that I had just one bee suit let alone a helper! I may try and locate a beesuit here and if I can't I have a heavy jacket that I can use with a bunch of duct tape.

I'm going to try and film it as I think it will be really exciting for people to see. I just hope it's not a movie about a man screaming like a little girl and running all over the place.


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## Bighorn06

I agree Videos of a grown man running around screaming like a little girl is always good entertainment.

I ordered a beesuit with a kit and it turned out to be no more than a pair of white coveralls. No extremely protective but better than nothing.

Good Luck on the cut out
Tony


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## Cactii

Bighorn06 said:


> I agree Videos of a grown man running around screaming like a little girl is always good entertainment.
> 
> I ordered a beesuit with a kit and it turned out to be no more than a pair of white coveralls. No extremely protective but better than nothing.
> 
> Good Luck on the cut out
> Tony


I was thinking about getting those white coveralls for painting. I think the object of the beesuit is just to have something loose enough around you that when the bees try to dig their stinger into you the don't reach your skin.

Like I said, I'm going to try NOT to make it a video about a grown man screaming like a little girl.


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## USCBeeMan

Looking forward to the videos!!! opcorn: Keep us informed. :lookout: 
Wish you the best. :thumbsup:


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## Cactii

Cleared the brush away from the front of this feral hive yesterday. They're still fairly active and moving around pretty good during the warm part of the day.

I also bought one of those white, baggy paint suits to help protect me from the girls when I'm disturbing them.

I'll be going over to clear the top and back of the fallen log here in the next couple of days and will also saw off the limbs of the log and the length that is not inhabited by the bees to make it all easier and more _comfortable_ for me when I'm working with them.

Still need to build a hive for them but that will only take a day and I may have time to start that tonight.

Keep watching! Hilarious video coming soon.


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## SlickMick

Looking forward to the video:lpf:

Mick


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## Hampton

Cactii,

Sorry for getting into this late. I move bees and remove bees all the time. When you get ready to move them the first step is to close up the log. go over to the log at night and put some screen over the hole, Use staples to hold the screen in place and then tape the edges if you can. the object is to keep the bees inside so you can work the following day. The next day you can move the log to your yard for work later. If you have to cut the log to length so you can move it just be sure to have smoke and screen to close off the ends where you cut. When you get the log to your yard ensure you put the log in the same orientation on the ground and leave them closed up for an extra day. 

To get the bees out of the log you can cut them out of trap them out. Most times in this situation I would build a hive on top of the log and put hole in the bottom above the hole in the log so that when the bees leave the log they have to go into the hive box. It will take a few weeks to get them into the hive but they will move, even the queen.

good luck.


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## heaflaw

I did one once almost exactly the way Hampton described and it worked great. I took about a month for them to all move up.


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## bs63366

Looking forward to the video here as well


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## Tomas

My wife and I happened to have just done a colony removal from a tree trunk at the beginning of this week. The tree was cut down because it was right in the way of where a fence was being built around a coffee-drying patio. The tree was cut down without a problem but the bees got riled up once the guy in charge of this started to cut the trunk up in pieces. That’s when he came looking for me.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1101.jpg

I decided to do the cutout right there. I was thinking about moving the piece of log with the bee to one of my bee yards but it would have been a bit difficult. The wood was still green, the trunk was fairly big and a vehicle doesn’t have access right up to the yard itself. It would have been heavy and a lot of work to move it.

We started by cutting into the bottom of the log to see exactly where the hollow began and where the combs were located. We then cut off a section of the log to open up part of the hive. The guy was careful and tried not to cut the combs with the chainsaw (did a good job). These exposed combs were then cut out. The best ones were tied into frames.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1104.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1106.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1107.jpg

We just kept cutting the log to open it up section by section—removing combs, tying them into frames, and looking for the queen as we went along.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1113.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1117.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1118.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1122.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1123.jpg

I shook and scooped as many bees as I could into my box, but I never did actually find the queen. We left the box on top of the opened-up log during the night, hoping all the stragglers would move in. The entrance to the box was actually down inside the log, close to where the original entrance on the log is.

However, when I went back the next morning, there was a pretty big group of bees still inside the log that hadn’t moved into the box. I put a piece of flexible aluminum plating underneath them and gently brushed the majority onto it. I then dumped them into the box. The queen must have been there because the rest started to immediately go into the box. Once the majority was in the box, we sealed up the entrance and took it to the apiary.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1128.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1131.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Coloniadeljiote10Ene1132.jpg

These were Africanized bees but they stayed fairly calm. There weren’t a real lot of bees which helped things. The first combs we removed had a number of recently opened queen cells so my guess is that they had swarmed within the last week or two. There were eggs but no larva or sealed brood. 

Do you have to worry about Africanized bees in northern Mexico? Take this into consideration and take precautions. I did this cutout in the late afternoon because I knew they would be Africanized. If they happened to get ornery, they would stay riled up for only a couple hours (until night) instead of all day. An Africanized hive is usually settled down by the next morning.

Cactii, as far as your comment in your initial post about lacking equipment, if you need to jury rig a suit, look for something at Goodwill or a used clothing store. A big pair of white or tan colored pants and a long-sleeved shirt can work and it can be fairly inexpensive. I would wear this over your normal clothes. You can also make inexpensive gloves by having a sleeve sewed onto normal leather gloves or canvas garden gloves. My wife made me some extra veils out of mosquito netting (seen in the photos).

Good luck.

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Tom


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## USCBeeMan

Thomas, that's one huge smoker you have there. Must have been made in Texas!


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## Tomas

You don´t want to be caught short on smoke when dealing with Africanized bees!


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## Cactii

This one goes out to you USCBeeMan!

Here's my first two videos of Moving the Feral Honeybee Hive. Mostly just preparations but there were some surprises - things are not always as they seem.

http://www.beinggreenonline.com/content/relocating-feral-honeybee-hive-manageable-hive

Enjoy!


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## USCBeeMan

Enjoyed viewing. My experience has been that nothing can be taken for granted. The girls do things their way and has no "human logic". Would have been better if you had brought a tarp to cover them hive. Not only because of they temperature but because of robbing. Hope they will be okay.

You mentioned the queen in the second video. I thought I saw her before you mentioned seeing her. Look at 2:26 which was about the time you got the camera focused. Looked like a bee with a long golden abdomen.

Good luck.


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