# Pumps for Sugar Syrup



## BEES4U

*I just do not know what type of pump to buy*

I used a pressure demand pump that I bought at a Ford RV agency.
It did the job and it was low cost!

Ernie


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## Chef Isaac

remember about how much you paid?


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## Ray Michaud

Chef try Freshwatersystems.com they have pressure demand pumps. when you open the valve the pump comes on. You can get a 12 volt pump and hook it to your truck battery.


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## Bob Nelson

12 volt, 10.5 gpm, hose, nozzle all for $129.99.


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200365612_200365612

I do not have any experience with this pump but have used fuel hose with nozzle for syrup off a centrifugal pump.


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## rainesridgefarm

The one from Northern does not work. syrup is to thick and would not prime. I also would like to know a low cost way I trasfer from the 2100 gal tote to the 275 gal tote on the back of the truck to pails to feed


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## VA Farms

I have been using one from Harbor Freight Tools for about a year. It was around $30-$40. The pump housing is stainless, has worked well for pumping 1:1 into 1 gal feeders. It pumps from a IBC tote through a garden hose with a valve on the end. The pressure on demand would be nice, but I will deal with not having it and save a little money. I make sure I flush it out with clean water each time I use it.


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## Keith Jarrett

Chef, try using air to push the syrup. Alot cheaper & faster.

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_1232.jpg

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_1230.jpg


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## Chef Isaac

Keith:

Thanks for the suggestion.

I need this unit to fit in the back of my truck. I have some yards that are tough to get to when it is wet out and would like to be able to put a hose on the syrup unit, turn the nozzle and fill the feeders where the hives are so I do not have to carry around the feeders.


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## tecumseh

snip..
The one from Northern does not work. syrup is to thick and would not prime.

tecumseh:
a lot of pumps are not self priming. the other consideration here would be... even if a pump is self priming the distance between the fluid level and the pump (often times referred to as 'the head') is absolutely important. given that the fluid to be pumped is thick (high viscosity) the engineered rating of the head of a particular pump would be more limited than if you were pumping water.

there are some physical/engineering advantages to pushing fluids with air pressure (vs vacume) which I assume is what mr jarrett is doing.


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## Chef Isaac

how do you get rigged up for this? And to make it work off a back of a small ford?


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## Chef Isaac

Sorry to be asking all of these questions but I have no real clue what I am looking for or what I need to buy. I want to be able to move sugar syrup from a unit (be it a barrel or something) that is in my truck and be able to have it being pumped through a hose so I can fill feeders right at the hive. Just just do not know what I am looking for.


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## VA Farms

Using pump listed below, put a short garden hose on one end into barrel (Preferably off the bottom so you don't have to prime it). A second garden hose going out to fill feeders, I made a valve from pvc that threads on the end with a nozzle extending past it. Hook up with extensions to car battery or constant power on your taillight plug. I think you could make this setup for around $60-70?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9576

Air is a great idea, but I don't want to install a pump or tank in my pickup, and my truck dose not have air breaks to get air from. Maybe down the road?


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## Chef Isaac

would this work?http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47906


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## BEES4U

*120v,*

120V, 8.5 amps, 60 Hz, single phase, 3400 RPM
Does it have a pressure relief valve.
Please check out the pressure demand pump!
it small , compact and inexpensive.
How are you going to get 120 volts out in the woods?
Ernie


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## BEES4U

*gas pressure delivery system*

The farm service companies have been using carbon dioxide tanks with a *regulator* for many years to inject liquid fertilizer into the irrigation sytem.
I made one up a pressure fed high fructose syrup system which is a lot more heavy than stimulative syrup.
I only needed 5 to 7 psi to push the syrup out of a steel drum laid over on it's side.
Ernie


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## BEES4U

*feeding simplified*

45 to 50 gallons of syrup X the weight of your syrup X the height of your tank = a cheap graivity fed system.
Ernie


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## Chef Isaac

I was thinking of a battery?


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## Chef Isaac

what are pressure demand pumps?


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## Chef Isaac

will any of the harbor freight units work with 2:1 syrup?


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## iwombat

Biggest thing you're going to need to remember here is that you'll need to clean that thing. If you're planning on using any kind of caustic soda for cleaning you'll need a bronze or stainless body pump. I'd look into pumps targeted for the beer/wine industry. They should do what you need.


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## Chef Isaac

sorry for the stupid questions but why does it need ot be cleaned?


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## Chef Isaac

what do you think?

http://www.everygenerator.com/Pacer-Pumps-SE2UL-E5HOC-PCP1003.html

will it work with 2:1 syrup?


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## iwombat

Sugary water is a perfect environment for growing all sorts of bacteria, wild yeasts, etc. Unless you want to ferment the contents of your feeder jars, you'll be wanting to periodically clean out and sterilize the internals of the pump. Even if you regularly water flush, you'll still be left with pockets that can grow things.

I like the idea of using a pneumatic pump. We had one at the brewery back when I worked there (a lifetime ago so it seems). You'd just need a portable pancake compressor to run one. You can also get all-plastic pneumatic diaphragm pumps that will stand up to any cleaning chemicals you can throw at them.


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## peletier

Chef Isaac said:


> what do you think?
> 
> http://www.everygenerator.com/Pacer-Pumps-SE2UL-E5HOC-PCP1003.html
> 
> will it work with 2:1 syrup?


WAY OVERKILL! This is for pumping water out of a flooded basement. 2 inch discharge! You could spray syrup up into the trees!

You are not getting much help here so I will try. 
(1)A mobile electric pump will have to be 12 volts...will run off your truck battery. Don't look at anything that doesn't say 12v for right now.
(2)Pressure demand pumps start pumping when you open the valve to squirt liguid. There is no "pressure tank". There is a pressure switch built into the pump that senses when the valve has been opened. These pumps are used in agriculture, boats, and especially in campers and travel trailers. They pump water out of a storage tank when a faucet is opened or the toilet is flushed.
....So, you are looking for a 12 volt pressure demand pump. SHURFlo and Flojet are common brands.
(3) Viscosity of the liquid to be pumped is an issue. If a pump can't handle the thicker syrup, it could burn out pretty quick. You might be able to pick up a used pump at a camper dealer or marina (or Ebay) and test drive it with different syrups to see how it does. $20 would be plenty for a used one.
(4) Another way to go would be to put your syrup into a tank which could be pressurized-you know, with compressed air. A tank fitted with a tire valve can be pressurized with an air hose and tire chuck driven by a 12 volt compressor. Just make sure the tank is rated for the pressure you're going to apply.


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## iwombat

If you're putting the tank in your truck, I'm not sure why a simple gravity-feed w/ no pump at all wouldn't work. Just put a big hose on it, fill below the level of the tank, and you're good to go.


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## Flyman

Chef, 

Don't quite know how to help here, but I can give some experience with building syrup delivery systems for candy plants. I never had the restriction of 12V systems. Basically, syrup changes viscosity (thickness) with temperature. At all viscosities a phenomena called "shear effect" is present. The thinner, or warmer, the syrup the easier is is to pump. This effect is called the "Siebolt" effect (I think I spelled it right) and the measurement is called S.S.U. or Siebolt Shear Units. Don't really remember, but I think the higher the SSU the harder it is to pump and the SSU goes up the harder you pump (catch 22).

We were pumping hot (220 degree) sugar/glucose syrup and had to run a rotary gear pump with a gear reduced motor to reduce the speed of the rotating gears or the motor would overheat. The faster the motor (pump) the higher the shear effect and eventually it will not pump at all. 

So, you have to operate within the SSU parameters of the syrup you are pumping and scale your equipment likewise. We used a Dayton #6Z622 Gear motor and a bronze impeller hot oil pump, the kind used for pumping oil from fryers (both from Grainger). Unfortunately, the motor is 120VAC, but you get the idea.

Honey would be the same challenge. I suspect honey pumps are designed within these parameters also. The SSU of different materials can be found online and most pumps will have a SSU spec at a certain speed.

Sorry, told you how to build a watch and didn't even tell you what time it is. Just hate to see you spend the money and it still not work.

The gravity feed system in the above post will work well as long as the barrel is pretty full (think head pressure) and the syrup is not to thick (cold) and the discharge hose is not real small. I am thinking not smaller than one inch.

Tom


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## Chef Isaac

I am going to try:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4YD42

I talked with one of the tec guys who happens to be a beekeeper and he said this should work. I can return it within 30 days. I plan to test it out tomorrow. 

I HOPE it works. My back is killing me with the 5 gallon pails of syrup.


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## Flyman

Chef, Looks like the best of all worlds. The diaphram pump should overcome and shear effect and its even 12V. The thing this gives up is the ability to draw from a high head, hence the 4.5 gpm @ 0 ft . If the pump stays below the syrup tank, I think you got it. The folks at Grainger are good to work with. Bought stuff from them for 20 years.

Let us know,

Tom


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## Chef Isaac

the people are grainger are great. Best customer service i have had in years.


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## Tom G. Laury

*12v*

Be sure to use wire of adequate guage, chef. If you're going from underhood to p/u bed I would use 8g minimum. Too much resistance, low voltage, burn up new tool. Also maybe make some pigtails on battery cables for good connection. Ground is very important too.


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## Chef Isaac

I bought a battery for this so no drawing from the truck. 

So the pump needs ot below the sugar tank. Can I have the hose going into the top of the sugar tank?


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## Bob Nelson

rainesridgefarm wrote:

"I also would like to know a low cost way I trasfer from the 2100 gal tote to the 275 gal tote on the back of the truck to pails to feed"

and Chef Isaac wrote:

"what do you think?

http://www.everygenerator.com/Pacer-...C-PCP1003.html

will it work with 2:1 syrup?"

Pacer centrifugal pumps are what I have experience with. They work great for syrup transfer. Yes they will pump cold heavy syrup from bulk into smaller tanks like rainesridge is talking about. Probably can get by cheaper with 3.5 hp below:

http://www.everygenerator.com/Pacer-Pumps-SE2YL-E3CP-PCP1096.html


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## high rate of speed

Chef,listen to keith.Air is the cheapest and you have less mechanical parts to work with.Alls you need is a propane tank,for the syrup storage,a small compressor,the ones you plug into your power point in you truck.and you are off and running.:applause:


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## Flyman

Chef,

The spec on the pump is 4.5 gpm @ 0 ft hd. If the pump is at the bottom of the barrel the "head" is the length the pump has to draw the syrup up before it starts going back down. However, once it has done this, it will then be a syphon and gravity will take over. Without seeing the delimiting graph for the pump head vs. GPM its hard to know when it will stop pumping because the head pressure is too great.

I took a 55 gallon stainless open head drum and welded a fitting along the bottom edge. The pump and the outlet are then at the same height and pumping the entire contents of the barrel is not a problem. 

Hope it works, I may have to get one myself.

Tom


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## Chef Isaac

Fly:

So the intake should be at the bottom? I need to make sure the hose is connected to the bottom of the barrel and not entering the top of the barrel, correct?


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## Chef Isaac

high: Sorry for the stupid question, but how does it work?


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## high rate of speed

Chef there is no such thing as a stupid question.a propane tank has a bleader valve.fill your tank with syrup.fill your tank with your desired amount of air.to pressurize the tank so you can push the syrup at your desired speed or volume.As the tank gets lower on syrup.hook up the handy dandy compressor once again to your power point in your truck.


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## Chef Isaac

tanks expensive? for the syrup that is?


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## Chef Isaac

and do I need to carry the compessor with me out to the field? If so, how do I draw ower? Battery?


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## high rate of speed

Ya chef,
A small hand held compressor is all you would need.run the cord through your back window and plug it in to your cigarette lighter.


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## MapMan

If you have a way to put fittings on your 55 gallon drum (I use the blue food-grade HDPE drums which are easy to fit with piping), set it up so that you have the output on one side of the top of the drum, and on the other opening at the top of the drum a vent with 90 degree elbow going to a length of pipe to extend past the top of the drum when placed on its side. Then all you have to do is fill it after you place it on its side (chock it so it doesn't roll) and then you should be able to pump without any problem.

Use this method with all types of solutions here on the farm.



MM


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## BEES4U

*Syrup pumping*

Well Chef, you have a lot of suggestions.
Now you will have to use our sound knowledge and fine tune it to *your * needs.
BTW: You might consider adding medication to the syrup.
Good Luck,
Ernie


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## Chef Isaac

hopefully it is a warm tent!  

Since there is no side line section and since I am tired of filling feeders by hand, I thought I would post the question here since, at some point, commerical beekeepers where once hobbyists and sideliners. Couple that with all the experiance you all have, I thought it might be a good place to post the question. 

I sincerely apologize if this is the wrong place to post such question and would feel free to have the moderator move it if needed. 

Sorry to inconvience Keith or anyone else who might feel this way.


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## Chef Isaac

I do have one. Not sure if it will work with 2:1. Working with two other beekeepers who have posted info on this to help me out. I just want to make sure it will pump cold 2:1. To be honest with you Keith, my back is killing me from hauling buckets around and instead of just buying one and trying it and it not working, they cost a good amount so some research I needed to do and get a better understanding of how they work and what I should look for.


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## Keith Jarrett

Chef Isaac said:


> what I should look for.


I put my two cents in on that subject Chef, A round tank that can be pressurized.

Put your sugar in put your water in use the air to mix, then put the top on to pressurize and pump.


Chef,
"action" produces a out come......

non action produces four thousand post's.


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## Bizzybee

Sheri, are you requiring Keith to read every thread? Come on, cut him a little slack! Can't you see he getting a little edgy by be compelled to have to read the thread.


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## Barry

Chef Isaac said:


> I just do not know what type of pump to buy. Doesnt need to pump honey but just sugar syrup.
> 
> Any affordable recomendations?


K.I.S.S.
http://www2.northerntool.com/fuel-transfer-lubrication/barrel-hand-pumps/item-10977.htm


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## Chef Isaac

wont work for what I am looking to do.


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## Chef Isaac

I tested the pump out more today. It will pump 1:1 but will not pump straight liquid sucrose. I can fill 4- 1 gallon feeders in 1 min 30 seconds. 

I might consider getting a unit from mann lake so I can push 2:1 and mix it in the tank.


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## Flyer Jim

*search?*

try this,we've been here before

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205754&highlight=syrup+pumps


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## high rate of speed

Gotta start somewhere.learn from the mistakes.


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## Keith Jarrett

No pain ... NO gain...

Some just want the magic diet pill to fix all.


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## Tom G. Laury

*Old Timers*

Used to say...Don't talk about it too much, you'll never get it done!


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## eaglesbee

Keth? 
Is it ok to add air to a 275gal tote can the tote take the pressure and would a 12v compressor keep up with feeding a lot of hives how much pressure would you need with a 75 foot hose?


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## Keith Jarrett

eaglesbee said:


> Keth?
> Is it ok to add air to a 275gal tote can the tote take the pressure and would a 12v compressor keep up with feeding a lot of hives how much pressure would you need with a 75 foot hose?


Eaglesbee, your tank needs to be round with NO flat sides, if your tank is full it doesn't take much air to pump.

When I'm feeding 4 gallon feeders it takes twenty seconds to fill or 5 seconds a gallon. Some times you have to back off the air because it become messee to fill.


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## iwombat

Chef, another idea, if you're using air is to just use a portable 10 gal air tank. Fill it up to 100psi in the shop and and load it on the truck. You don't even need to carry a compressor that way. 10gal at 100psi should be able to generate enough head-pressure in a 55gal drum (20 psi once all the syrup is out) to do what you need quite easily. (Going with what I know: you generally push beer out a tap-handle between 7-20psi depending on the length of the run and the height of the tap-handle in relation to the keg. (add about 5psi for every 10 feet of rise))

Or, you could just use C02 to push, but then the refill isn't free. Although 1 C02 tank would probably push 10 drums of syrup.

. . . so many options.


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## jean-marc

I just use a water pump with a 5 hp motor. It's not overkill with cold syrup. I kinda am intrigued with Keith's system. I suppose you use hot water to mix you sugar. How much air does it take to mix your tanK? Does the air come from the brakes on the truck or a shop compressor? It seems relatively simple. One big advantage is that it would be quiet. Chef if you go for a pump, splurge and get a Honda motor, not a Briggs and Stratton. The Honda motor is so much more quiet, well worth the extra dollars in my opinion.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian

I second the Honda engine,
they are probably the best built on the market,


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## Hambone

Keith Jarrett said:


> Eaglesbee, your tank needs to be round with NO flat sides, if your tank is full it doesn't take much air to pump.
> 
> When I'm feeding 4 gallon feeders it takes twenty seconds to fill or 5 seconds a gallon. Some times you have to back off the air because it become messee to fill.


Keep this up and I will contact the mods. Your exceeding your one sentance max response.


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## Tom G. Laury

*Honda Engines*

Are great but with a pressure tank you can hear the birds sing and the bees hum. With two vessels, one for air the other for syrup, regulated, compressor is unnecessary. No moving parts.


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## JohnK and Sheri

*Show and tell*

One of you guys with the pressure tank set up should post detailed pics.:thumbsup:
Sheri


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## Tom G. Laury

Gotta get me a camera! Yeah Sheri you"re right. A thousand words.


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## Chef Isaac

I ended up going with a brass pump from Mann Lake. 

I need to get a motor and want to look into a Honda motor. It would be nice to pick it up locally. I checked on craigslist andn othing there. Would a motor from a lawn mower work? Also.... where would one look to get a honda motor new locally?


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## oldenglish

I buy all my small engine stuff from these guys, I have had excellant service from them.
Service Proparts, http://65.101.96.233/


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## Illinois

4 a pressure tank can use an old waterheater tank. Can also fill tank by putting under mild vacuum and sucking syrup in.


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## jean-marc

That sound's like those bees are awfully thirsty. 
Maybe you should have been there sooner.

Jean-Marc


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## MapMan

Chef Isaac said:


> I ended up going with a brass pump from Mann Lake.
> 
> I need to get a motor and want to look into a Honda motor. It would be nice to pick it up locally. I checked on craigslist andn othing there. Would a motor from a lawn mower work? Also.... where would one look to get a honda motor new locally?



Chef, you gotta get out of the kitchen more, and start doing some reading of small engine/electrical motors, etc. manuals and mechanical works... not an insult here, just some advice... 

In order to learn you need to start taking things apart, and try to put them back together (without extra parts). Necessity is the mother of invention. I know you want to pick folk's brains here (a treasure trove of info), but golly gee - do some research too! :thumbsup:

MM


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## Chef Isaac

Map:

I totally agree. It too me 4 years of living in seattle to go to Pikes Place Market. I used to work all the time... we are talking 15 plus hours in a kitchen 5-6 days a week. 

I do not take it harshly. I totally agree!


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## iwombat

Chef, that bronze pump takes a standard pulley and belt, right? 

Look in CL for a benchtop drill press, you can usually find one for $50 or so. Remove the electric motor and run it off a power-inverter on your truck. You can put that whole rig together for under $100.

Shoot me an e-mail if you need some help.


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## Keith Jarrett

JohnK and Sheri said:


> One of you guys with the pressure tank set up should post detailed pics.:thumbsup:
> Sheri


http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_0811.jpg

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_0813.jpg

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_0812.jpg


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## MapMan

Thanks Keith for posting those pictures. Looks like you either are a great welder, or you found someone who does a top-notch job. Cost you a pretty penny, but it looks like it is an indispensable unit.

MM


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## BEES4U

*Syrup Tank*

Great use of available materials !
*And, No Moving Parts!*:thumbsup:
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett

MapMan said:


> Cost you a pretty penny,
> MM


MM, not really... cost for hose & some fittings. And of course time (Labor.. for those of you in WA )

Before & after

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_0090.jpg

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_0819.jpg

This 5,000 tank was free, poured a concrete stand, cut off all the garbage on it, sanded it down to bare metal, prime it then had a coat of spray on insulation put on.


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## irwin harlton

*Keith*

What was the 5000 GALLON tank previously used for?


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## Keith Jarrett

irwin harlton said:


> What was the 5000 GALLON tank previously used for?


Irwin, both tanks were old out dated propane tanks.

I told my wife, when I was welding fitting on the 5000 gallon tank, if she saw a huge mushroom cloud don't bother fixing me dinner.


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## irwin harlton

*Keith ,used propane tanks*

Was there any problem getting rid of the propane aroma, like it giving the syrup a bad taste, have stuck my nose in a old propane tank and the odor is quite noticeable ............ did you fill them with water while welding & cutting on them?


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## Keith Jarrett

irwin harlton said:


> Was there any problem getting rid of the propane aroma, like it giving the syrup a bad taste,did you fill them with water while welding & cutting on them?


Irwin, there was a propane aroma, I did flush with water.

the cutting & welding part, I ran a truck exhaust pipe in the tank for about an hour before I started welding.

It's a cheap way to go for a feeding system & it pumps syrup fast.


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## Terry G

thanks for the info and pics.

I like the preasure tank idea. I am working on finishing building feeders for all my hives, and hav'nt thought about how I was going to fill them yet. I normaly use 250 gallon totes for for my sugar syrup, they are easy to move and load on my trucks. pump systems can be noisy and prone to problems. 

What is the slosh issue like driving around with a propane tank 1/2 full of sugar. I remember driving around with 500 gallon tanks before we used totes, the truck would jerk back and forth a fair bit when they got about 1/2 full.

I am now considering a presurized 1000 gallon propane tank system due to this thread. I need to be able to carry enough sugar with me so that I do not need to go back to the shop and fill up.

mayby 2, 500 gallon propane tanks... it would be less sloshing...


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## iwombat

For this exact reason, big boat fuel tanks usually have baffles on the inside. Keeps the sloshing down. 

Something to think about anyway.


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## tecumseh

terry writes:
mayby 2, 500 gallon propane tanks... it would be less sloshing...

tecumseh:
or more? or more random?

just casually it seems to me the double whammy of thick syrup and extreme swings in air temperatures might make any syrup feeding system a bit more complex than some here seem to suggest. matter of fact I wouldn't be surprised to find that given the nature of syrup and low temperatures that on occasion plugging of pipes might be another issue untouched by anyone's comment here.


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## BEES4U

*plugging of pipes might be another issue*

The pipes could be wraped with soil cables to warm the syrup.
Some of us fill the tank with 10% clean potable water before the tank is filled.
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett

tecumseh said:


> terry writes:
> more complex than some here seem to suggest. matter of fact I wouldn't be surprised to find that given the nature of syrup and low temperatures that on occasion plugging of pipes might be another issue untouched by anyone's comment here.


Com--mooon Big T have some faith. 

I use a 50/50 blend syrup so no plugging problems.

complex..... there is a problem in getting the light to come on at times.


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## BEES4U

*complex..... there is a problem*

1st you can to have a live circuit.:shhhh:
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett

bees4u said:


> 1st you can to have a live circuit.:shhhh:
> Ernie


lol...


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## Terry G

After sleeping on the topic all night I think that there is no one best way to fill feeders

I guess that there are pro's and cons to any system that a person decides to use. I normaly gravity fill barrels for rob feeding from 250 gallon totes on the back of my 5 ton. they are easy to tie down and minimal sloshing. They can be hooked up to pumps to fill feeders quite easily because there are 2 inch cam locks on the valve. The issue here is the mess created when moving the pump to an other tote when it emptys. I hate small sugar spills.

Preasure systems require heavy steel tank, and create a sloshing issue, but no pumps or moving parts and minimul mess.

I guess I'll have to sleep on it some more


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## jean-marc

The pressurized system looks like it wuld last a long time, seems pretty durable. Those totes fall apart pretty quick, although they are cheap and plentiful enough. 

How are your bees Terry?

Jean-Marc


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## tecumseh

keith writes:
complex..... there is a problem in getting the light to come on at times.

tecumseh:
so keith how much feeding at temperatures that hoover around zero (celsus) and that maintain this temperature for weeks at a time have you accomplished? how much technical expertise do you have in considering the viscosity of syrup at sub zero weather (which is typically transported on the back of large trucks which should make the liquid???? even colder and thicker)?

casually (having not read every post on this thread) syrup fed in feeders is likely neither the best nor the most economical means of suppling feed to a hive. to take a BETTER route you might or might not need to think outside the box (not literally I suspect).


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## Keith Jarrett

tecumseh said:


> so keith how much feeding at temperatures that hoover around zero (celsus) and that maintain this temperature for weeks at a time have you accomplished?


Big T,

Why would a keeper wait till it got to zero to START feeding? did he/she just then figure out that there bees were light OR did the LIGHT finally come on between there ears.

Who can fly with the eagles when your surrounded by turkeys.


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