# Queen Cell in a Laying Worker hive???



## jamman (May 19, 2015)

Hello all.

To jump into this, I have a hive that I KNOW was full of laying workers. 8 and 9 eggs per cell, on the walls, on top of pollen, etc. Ugh-lee!

But I got in there the other day ad saw a queen cell being made. I now have a sealed queen cell and another open one that has a larvae in it.

I had lost the queen. I had hunted and hunted for her. There were no other indications of her existing. So I'm confused by the queen cell. Will they have done this, laid an egg, and raise a drone in that since there are no fertilized eggs to be had??

Ohhhhhhhhhh, I need to check, that one might be on a bar of eggs that I threw in there from a queenright hive. But the one that is still open I don't think came from there.

Short of my having had a weird success of them raising a queen from the egg filled bar I threw in there, does this happen? Or what is happening?

Interesting, interesting, interesting. These bees are so cool!


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

they are either trying to raise a queen from a drone egg in which case it will be terminated, or the moons and stars aligned just right and you have a case of Thelytoky


http://www.beesource.com/point-of-v...n-a-strain-of-us-honey-bees-apis-mellifera-l/



my money is on a soon to be terminated drone.


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## jamman (May 19, 2015)

I'm not really thinking it is a viable queen, but had not yet heard of them building a queen cell over a drone. I am thinking of just taking a few frames from this hive everyday and add to my one queenright hive that is about the same size or a touch smaller. I don't want to overwhelm it. I figure if I shake the frame a little to encourage forager bees to take off and leave nurses on (if there are any young nurses left), and move 4 or 5 over a day and let them be assimilated/fight it out.

In the meantime, I think I should move that frame with the "queen" cell into a nuc and see what happens. Actually, I should cut it out and put it in a JZ or hair roller so I see what I get, huh? What do you think?

I'll take any suggestions.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I would defiantly put a cage over the cell(S) to see what you get. Recording an actual Thelytoky would be kewl> Unless you do not have ample reserves or are tired of messing with the hive I would give it a frame of brood a week for 3 weeks and let them raise a new queen.


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## jamman (May 19, 2015)

Well, I gave it some eggs on Thursday last, and a bar of them a few days before. I didn't mark them and am uncertain now. I don't want to have a false "verified" instance of this. But I am curious as to what I have.

I only have 2 hives. I'm just starting. I'm trying to make sure I build these girls up like I need to I'm afraid I've fed too heavily (rain and lots of issues here, so given them pretty much unlimited 1:1 to 3:5 sugar/water, thinned) that they may be getting honeybound.

Thanks all


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

Ohhhhhhhhhh, I need to check, that one might be on a bar of eggs that I threw in there from a queenright hive. But the one that is still open I don't think came from there.


So you put a frame of eggs from a queenright hive in the laying worker hive, correct? Then that's your answer, they are making a queen cell from the available eggs.


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## jamman (May 19, 2015)

I'm not sure it was the bar that I put in, and for it to be capped over already was something. I'm sure I'm missing all kinds of things. But loving this. It must be the frame I threw in. I was hoping to salvage the hive.

Let's move with the assumption that some of the workers decided to turn an egg I gave them into a queen. Should I protect this cell in case some of the laying workers aren't ready to cede their newfound position?

Thanks.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

No, if they've capped it, leave it alone. Capped queen cells are very fragile between days 4-14, so don't risk it


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Ha ha yup sounds like it's a frame you put it was bit surrounded by worker brood? Lol


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## jamman (May 19, 2015)

True, but I'm not certain as to the age. It is at least 5 days since it is capped. So you'd just leave it? I really want to see it. Guess I'll just monitor it and steal the other frames out during the next few days.

I tried to take pics, but evidently the phone was full and didn't save the shots I took.


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## Thershey (Mar 12, 2014)

In spite of everything you may have done right or wrong, giving them the frame of eggs was the right thing to do. It usually takes two or three weeks of giving them a frame of eggs to suppress the LWs and get them to build a QC but you got lucky and they jumped right on it. The ONLY logical thing you should do at this point is leave them alone for minimum two or better three weeks since you don't know the timeline of the QC. Don't open the hive to see the QC, don't open the hive to steal frames, don't do anything but leave them closed up and undisturbed to finish the process of re-queening the hive. Every time you open the hive during this phase you are significantly reducing your odds of ending up with a successful conclusion. The wait is hard but I promise the result is worth the wait, seeing that newly mated queen for your first time is a hoot. Good Luck.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

jamman said:


> True, but I'm not certain as to the age. It is at least 5 days
> 
> They cap queen cells at day 8, not 5.
> 
> ...


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

gezellig said:


> No, if they've capped it, leave it alone. Capped queen cells are very fragile between days 4-14, so don't risk it


 14 - 4 = 10 How can that be when a queen cell is only capped for 8 days? :scratch:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#fertileworkersqueencells

"But they so far correspond with queens whose impregnation has been retarded, that they sometimes lay in royal cells."--François Huber, New Observations on the Natural History Of Bees


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Just to mention another possibilities: 1) a virgin queen flew off to mate and "returned" to a different home (your beehive); 2) a usurping colony has absconded and jumped your hive (it DOES happen!); 3) a mystery beekeeper is playing a joke on you.

I do hope it is a case of theteloky! Good luck.


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## jamman (May 19, 2015)

Hi all,

I really appreciate the help and comments here.

On my comment on post 10, I wasn't communicating well and was messing up my math. I knew if it was capped, it had been hatched for 5 days. I didn't tack on the 3 days as an egg prior to that. I made it messy, sorry for that.

Now on to further confessions, I didn't see everything said here before I acted, and some I did. I messed up. You can read about it in the 11th post of this thread: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...is-my-experience-so-far-And-what-is-this-cell

Long story short, still have the LW hive AND I killed my queen in my only queenright hive. Jamman<---Idiot

I'm just hoping my experience helps someone else or at least burns the memory into my head so I don't forget the lessons. What is funny, I'm still loving this, am not as frustrated as I would think I would be, and can't wait to get into my bees.

Thanks again to everyone.


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