# Mini Mating Nucs



## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Which mini nucs do you have? The tiny ones or the half length ones?


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

Half length


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I have stocked nucs with mated queens and enough bees to cover the frames. 
You probably should feed them sugar syrup so that they can draw out the foundation. Or, let the bees gather their own food.
I would suggest caging the queen untile they settle down and let the bees release her by consuming candy in the cage.


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

These are mini mating nucs. Are you saying to stock them with bees and a mated queen. This looks like a guaranteed swarm setup.
There is no room in there.


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## Apple Farmer (Apr 14, 2009)

rdowell said:


> I am interested in using mini mating nucs. Currently I have the nucs but no drawn comb.
> What would be the best way to begin using these?


rdowell,
I have the styrofoam double mini nucs from Mann Lake and a couple of single mini nucs I used for the first time this year with queen cells.
I shook bees from a strong hive. Sprayed them with 1:1, scooped 1 cup into each nuc, put in the q cell, and filled the feeder with 1:1.
When I went to retrieve the queens, 12 days later, 3 nucs were drawn out - 2 had laying queens - 1 had bees but no queen - the 4th had no bees no queen.....seems the plastic slide on the bottom of the nuc got slid back and the bees took off! I guess making sure you still had bees in the nuc would be one of the reasons you leave them in a dark place overnite before setting them out!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

RD,
You can pull a frame of brood out, shake off the bees, place the brood frame,s, overnight in a stocking box, remove the covered frame and stock another nuc.
Or, you can stock the nuc with syrup, bees and a ripe queen cell, let them settle down for 3 days in a cool dark place and set them out in their yards.
Remember nucs produce a lot of heat so you will need to address that also.
I have 2 frame nucs in the full sun with shade boards and they are doing fine in 88-95 degree weather.
It will take you a few years of experience to fully get the "handle" nuc management.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Ok for the half sized frames such as mann lakes styrofoam double mating nucs or most wooden nucs you will want to make up some supers that can hold the small frames so they can be put onto standard hives for comb building, protection during winter, and stocking the frames with brood or food... these supers set in the right configuration on hives can give you the brood and bees that you need on each frame to stock your nucs just like you would for a standard nuc. Shaking bees works very well, and if you have a lot of mating nucs to stock, it will be necessary, but you will need to care for your combs and feeding can be very dangerous, so having frames with pollen and honey already will make your nucs much easier to care for. Comb building puts a lot of stress on these little colonies, so letting a full size hive do the building will move your nucs forward quite a bit and allow you to stock your nucs with far fewer bees, thus saving resources. Here are some pics that may help...

Super with crossbar that can hold 20 half length frames...
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/RussellApiaries/smallframesystem009.jpg

Super with crossbar and full partition to create 2 growing boxes that hold 10 frames each... this is one way that you can overwinter tiny nuc colonies on these frames...
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/RussellApiaries/smallframesystem010.jpg

By placing these supers higher on the hive, the bees will fill the frames with honey, thus you will have a way to safely feed your nucs... Note that the top two supers on this hive have nails in the sides, these are the small frame supers...
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/RussellApiaries/smallframesystem011.jpg

By placing these supers lower on the hive (in the brood area) the queen will lay eggs in the frames and the frames will be covered with nurses, thus allowing you to stock your nucs with brood frames to help make the stock bees stay as well as get the ball rolling for the nucs to last and even build up... in this picture the small frame super is marked by a black verticle stripe...
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/RussellApiaries/smallframesystem012.jpg

You can also start new packages directly on the small frame supers getting them drawn and filled and build them up in what we call "sacrificial hives"... these hives are completely broken down and every frame is used to stock nucs with... there is no home for the bees to return to, and this method is helpful when space is limited... in this picture the hive is a medium super, a shallow super, and a medium small frame super on top... this hive would be used to stock medium and shallow threeway mating nucs as well as 10 holes (or five duplexes) of the mini nucs...









The hives in this picture are true bottomless hives made up of nothing but small frame supers... they are sacrificial hives and each can stock 40 holes (or 20 duplexes)... so these 40 hives can stock 160 holes (or 80 duplexes)...
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/RussellApiaries/smallframesystem013.jpg

As for frames and whether or not to use foundation or natural comb, the frames that you purchase can be used with either shallow side bars or medium ones, either is fine.. we make our own frames that are a bit thinner so they are easier to get in and out of the mini nucs without hurting our queens or bees... for our frames, we use no foundation and no guide, just space them properly throughout the super and place it in the center of the brood area on a strong hive... about 10 days later, it is fully drawn with natural comb and filled solid with brood... for the pruchased frames, foundation works well, just keep in mind that foundation is harder for the bees to work with than natural comb, so if you are making them draw the comb in the mini nucs, you will do better to only make them do one frame at a time... (note the styrofoam mini nuc single are much smaller frames than the regular mini nucs that used half length frames, the bees in the nuc will have to draw those frames in the nucs, lots of light syrup and a cool dark place to let them build natural comb as foundation is not recommended for these little frames)... here is a pic showing the half length mini frames (purchased on the left, thin homemade on the right).
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/RussellApiaries/cell07005.jpg

The greatest issue that you may find is that the bees will constantly be outgrowing the mini nucs... so I recommend that you prepare plenty of fresh frames and store them (foundation or blanks, which ever way you decide to go)... this way you have the resources available to weaken them up as you go... and as you do, you can place the frames that you remove into either more minis like splits, or you can place them into small frame supers and put them on hives, or even make new hives with them.

When you stock your nucs, I recommend that you plant your first cell as you stock... make sure there is food... close them up, and place them in a cool dark room (indoors is best for this time of year) and let them stay long enough for the queen to hatch and for them to get accustomed to there combs (usually 2 -3 days will do it)... then place them in there new locations just after dark and open them up.

Hope this helps!


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

I was going to suggest the same thing as Russell did. I made up a cross bar so the mini nuc frames can fit in a regular super, then placed over a hive so they would draw it out, then restricted a queen to the super so she would lay in the frames. When you stock, you just mix and match the frames so each nuc has some brood and nectar. It is harder to get the pollen but they will make some frames with both.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I was waiting for you to show up Robert, lol.

I few rather "basic" questions for you (or anyone else, really).

Equipment:
I noticed that your boxes vary from Rabbit to finger joints. Is there one you prefer? I know it's a ford or chevy kinda thing, just wondering your thoughts.
I also noticed most of your boxes weren't painted. Was that intentional, coincidence, or just rushed? I know MB stopped painting a few years ago, I was wondering if you did as well.

Mini Nucs:
I'm aware of the advantages of using Mini mating nucs for large scale operations. It requires less bees in each nuc to get a queen properly mated, which requires less resources overall. That makes sense when you are breeding queens by the hundreds, but what about by the dozens? I've been contemplating using mini's for about a year now, but can't bear myself to do it. It seems like I'd have a bunch of extra equipment that would just sit idle for 10 months out of the year, when instead I can just use 5 frame nucs (perhaps split in half) or even a 10 frame hive with dividers inside making 3 or 4 different sections. It seems if you are going to make less than 100 queens, having mini's is just more work than is necessary. At the end of your queen mating season, then you have a bunch of half frames, filled with brood and food, that you need to figure out what to do with. It just seems alot easier to use standard frames, rather than mini's, until your operation grows to the point where you need them. Thoughts?

Summer issues:
You mentioned about closing up the nucs for about three days, keeping them indoors, so that the bees had enough time to let the queen emerge and be accepted. What if you are breeding at an out-yard? Closing them up and leaving them outside seems dangerous, especially in 100º+ temps. Closing them up and moving them seems dangerous as well, since putting them in a car while the queen is still at a very sensitive time in her developmental stage could potentially kill her. Hit one bump on the highway and there goes the queen. Thoughts on how you manage this with an out-yard in the high temps of the summer?


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

I would wax in my starter strips (not built out) 1" to 1.5" collect my bulk bees from the brood nest of strong colonies you need young bees place in a cool dark room with AC

1-2 days would stock my Mini Nuc with a cup that holds (8oz or 12oz liquid)u,y7, of the well fed bulk bees, next day place in Ripe Queen cell by doing it this way you can place the cell where the bees are clustered some time they dont cluster around the Q C and it might get chilled in early spring

leave them in the cool dark room for 3 days after hatch date
Here in a pic using starter strips with a 8oz cup with bees in it and feed in the feeder ( it would be best in the styrafome3 MN to put your feed in a small ziplock bag and turn upsid down and put a 1/4 inch slit in top this way while they are closed up they will not get drowned in the feeder

 
My photobucket has some more pic



Some U-tube
http://www.youtube.com/user/vlwbee123?feature=mhee#p/a


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Velbert, you clearly know what you are doing with the minis. Are you producing bulk bees for them right now in the heat of the summer? If so I'd really like to hear some pointers on that. For that matter I'd like some pointers on producing bulk bees period - any time of year.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi David 

not producing bulk bees now. Have not had to use bulk bees for about 4 years now
I use them in the begining to get them started I have over wintered these M MN in the beeworks MN 
I over wintered about 55 MN this past winter 1st part of april was up to 200 I would turn the extra mn upside down on a over winter MN back in about 1st march the queen will go up and lay in them so all of 55 over winter MN were doubles then started dividing them 
would set the top half off then split it, the the bottom half split it so this gave me 3 splits from the 1 overwintered Mn Most splits got 2 frames with brood a few had 1 frame with brood i would let this have the bigest and with the most brood on it.

started making me some single 4 frame 6 1/4 deep medium with reversable bottoms and tel tops thes i can super up like a full size hive 
trying to get thes stocked before winter.THEN PLAN TO WINTER THESE.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I didn't know that you could really overwinter minis successfully - I'm guessing you have at least as much winter in OK as we have here in TN. I might try that with a few of my 3-4 frame mediums. Sure would be nice if it works.


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