# Doing my first split(s) next week



## garusher (May 28, 2012)

I'm a beginner, but just inspected my two nucs' i made a couple of weeks back. I used a frame of brood and a frame of honey/Syrup.
and three new frames of undrawn foundation. They both seem to be doing fantastic.

G.


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

I am making a nuc tomorrow. My new mated, carniolan, queen will arrive in the morning. My plan is for one frame of brood and one frame of honey and I am trying foundationless frames for the first time. We shall see. This is my first attempt at starting a nuc. 
Let me know how yours goes Mike.


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## jadell (Jun 19, 2011)

Don't forget some pollen! I try to make it so the bees don't really need to forage until one turnover of brood. Just a little insurance.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Before you add your queens to your queenless nucs, go over each frame real well and make* sure *that they didnt start a queen cell. If they did destroy it, or else the money you spent on new queens will be wasted.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Making your frame of stores mostly pollen is better as you will be feeding syrup. I usually make mine up a little stronger for less management and feeding. 1 frame of sealed brood, 1 frame of older open larva to hold the bees in the nuc better a frame of nectar and frame of pollen and a undrawn frame. Then put a feeder on it as long as they'll take it and not plug out the nuc. Best of luck, many opinions here and they all sound good. Depends on your management preference and materials on hand.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Ray, what do you mean by don't plug out the nuc? Make it honey bound?


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah, that was the basic reason I was thinking 3 frames plus 2 empty as I want them to have some room to grow. I definitely do not want it maxed out on install, which would set me up in a swarm condition too quickly. These bees are pretty active. They drew out 2 foundationless, Kelley, frames nearly to the edge and filled them, uncapped last week, in two weeks.


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

So around luch time, I am setting up my nuc as follows:

The Queen
One frame of stores mostly pollen
One frame of sealed brood 
One frame of older open larva 
One frame of nectar
One undrawn frame

I also have room for upward growth.

Sounds like a good plan.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Seymore said:


> Ray, what do you mean by don't plug out the nuc? Make it honey bound?


Yes, the nucs are small, the queen is not mated yet, the nuc can get plugged out with honey quicker that we sometimes think. They do well with a small trickle feeder of some sort, not a blast of syrup all at once. Once the queen has mated, the nuc will start to draw wax on that blank frame and you'll be off and running, keeeping watch so the nuc does not swarm on you.


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

Well, I got my nuc set up. 
One strong frame of brood, one frame of mostly pollen and one frame of honey and pollen. I also place a frame of drawn comb and one frame of wax foundation. I set the mated queen and her attendants, in her box, in to the nuc box as well.

Lets see how this goes.

Thanks for starting the thread Mike and sorry I jumped on. Let us know how it goes for you. I am excited about this adventure.
Cheers,


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Not a problem Greg. 
Ray, I purchased mated queens so that issue is taken care of.

This is a first for me and I am really looking forward to it as a Newbeek. I am doing a hive inspection this weekend to get an idea of what to move when my new queens arrive next Thursday. Some of my frames are a blend of brood, pollen, and honey, where I have several frames 100% sealed honey. At least 30% of my frames with sealed brood cover more than 70% of both sides of the frame, so it should be pretty easy. However my upper brood chamber is getting very heavy with honey. I will probably leave both brood chambers on my primary hive, but also do some load balancing. The queen is laying in both the upper and lower but the upper is the primary honey storage at this point.
Thanks to everyone for the inputs, I do like to look from as many perspectives as I can to optimize my decisions as a Newbeek......


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## Keefis (May 4, 2012)

Remember to get some extra bees in each nuc. (maybe knock some off another frame) I did a split and had to add some more bees to the "nuc" two weeks in. Mine was TBH though. 
Some of the bees will make their way back to the original hive. Mine are 175 feet apart.
If you have real bee food and not just syrup then they (the nucs) will definitely have a leg up.
You could make a food patty and put in hive to save them the trip.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Good point Keefis will do on the bee shake (no queen). Unfortunately my hives will not be that far apart. This is due to city lot size. I already have 1/3 patties ready for each one plus the donor hive.


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

This is the Nuc I started last Friday.






I have a feeder on top in the second box. I had to fortify the nuc due to seeming attacks by other bees. The other bees appeared to be outsiders and not fom my other three hives. I did watch the hive lat night and I am guessing brood has hatched as there was many bees coming out and doing the circle maneuvers. I will inspect the nuc on Sat to see if the mated queen has been released and hopefully accepted. 

Mike, look forward to hearing how your set up goes today!


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

3m, When I make my next nuc, I'm going to set them side x side and point my entrances in opposite directions. You might give that a try.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Well I had some confusion this morning. UPS called and asked me to pick up my bees around 8AM so I got there around 9:30 and discovered that I only had one queen. Phone call and email to supplier then I went out back and did my splits (both). I got one frame of honey in each and two frames of mixed brood/honey/pollen in each NUC. The bees were pretty aggressive, we were under thunderstorm threat but no rain while in the process. I had to take one of the empty frames out so I could put the queen cage in on the one NUC. The cork was pulled on the fondant side and a small hole drilled in it with the screen side down and wax rubbed on the screen. All the bees on the empty frame were shaken into the NUC. So at this time the other NUC is queen-less and I got an email that my second queen has shipped and should be here in 1-3 days (hopefully tomorrow). 
Two items I would like to state is that I never saw my established queen so I may have to re-check my NUCs tonight. I looked on each frame moved twice and the same for each frame in the original hive. I have the plastic rotating entrance covers from Brushy Mountain and currently have both NUCs on the ventilation only setting as I wanted the bees to get used to there new homes and minimize the movement back to the original hive 5' away. I plan on opening the one that has a queen tomorrow, but am not sure what I should do on the queen-less one. I am not sure I will get an updated delivery date tonight on the second queen or not. I do have a FBM style feeder that has separate feeder entrances for each NUC (top feeder) and the bees cannot go between the NUCs due to a separator I built that goes on top of two NUCs for a 10 frame feeder. When I do my NUC inspections tonight I will cover the side not being inspected with a towel to stop migration/flight as much as possible.
If anyone sees I have done something wrong let me know and advise on best correction process.
Thanks for the support in advance, and I did forget to set up my camera probably because I was upset over getting only one queen.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

When you do get the second queen, check for queen cells in the nuc you intro her into. If there are cells, be sure to destroy them. Otherwise they may decide they like their own cells more than the new queen and might kill her, as blood is thicker than water, as the saying goes.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Well good and bad news this morning (Sat.) . The USPS tracking indicates that my second queen is at my local Post Office, so now I wait for the carrier. Since I have to go back in I took out 3 pieces of Mega Bee patties to warm up (I cut them into thirds) while I wait. I then thought I'd check on the bee activity at the NUC entrances, since I opened them up last night ( queen excluder opening) picture later. Well I saw no bees at the entrances so I took the top off to look at the feeder and no bees there too. So I am thinking that the bees have all gone back to the original hive. It looks like I need to swap positions of the original hive and the NUCs, plus shake some bees back in. Does it do any good to close the entrance down to vent. only for a couple of days?

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy87/mmmooretx/IMG_20120825_092240.jpg

Update: My second queen arrived at 10:30 so back into the bee yard to put the queen in, swap positions, and re-bee the NUCs if needed. I will check back when complete but I think I will put the entrance at queen excluder position until I hear from the group.
Thanks again.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Well the deed is done and my original hive was very hot, so I am glad I wore my full suit. I did not see the queen in the original hive so I am not sure what happened. The queen in the first NUC was already out, but I did not search for my original queen in either NUC since my smoker ran out and I had a bunch of mad bees in the air. I quit for the time being, but may check the NUCs this afternoon when things have settled down. Both NUCs seemed pretty mellow, hint...
Comments?


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## gunter62 (Feb 13, 2011)

Original hive being hot could mean you removed their queen. You really need to verify all hives are queenright.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

gunter62 said:


> Original hive being hot could mean you removed their queen. You really need to verify all hives are queenright.


Agreed, I was waiting for them to settle down and it started raining. I slipped out for a picture and I think I know which NUC to look in based on not everyone can get in loading...


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

Well, I checked my nuc today to see if they had accepted the queen and to see if things had settled down. What I found was a disaster. I guess I made a huge "newbee" mistake. I thought I had made sure my queen cage was in a good position, but what I found was the worst case scenario. The queen was drowned by the jar feeder i had placed on top and inside the nuc. The $49.95 I paid for shipping is really making me ill now. I was really excited to see the new queen out in the hive today, now i feel really bad about the whole attempt to make a nuc.

I guess I will see if they can make their own queen now. (fingers crossed)

Mike, I hope yours goes alright.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Greg,
OUCH! Sorry about that. I am not sure on my condition yet, as soon as the rain settles down so I can get into the two NUCs to know my answer. I have one super mad at me that has chased me all the way back to the house twice. I guess I will have to put the full suit back on to checkout the NUCs. However I think I will just wear the vinyl thin gloves just in case I find my missing queen so I can put her in the right hive. Worse case for me is one of my queens has been killed by the other. So I would be in your situation of having to buy another queen. My shipping is less since I am 1.5 hours from my vendor and USPS priority mail is next day. One day we will be better!


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

WOOHOOT!!! The first frame I pulled from the suspected NUC in the picture above had the queen on it. Rather than trying to pick her up I prodded her to walk off the frame back into her hive with a twig. I then checked the same NUC as I had just put a new queen in it this morning. No issues just bees clustered on the queen cage. Now to leave them alone for a bit.
I got lucky this time and also did some newbee lessons! 
:applause::thumbsup:


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

mmmooretx said:


> Greg,
> OUCH! Sorry about that. I am not sure on my condition yet, as soon as the rain settles down so I can get into the two NUCs to know my answer. I have one super mad at me that has chased me all the way back to the house twice. I guess I will have to put the full suit back on to checkout the NUCs. However I think I will just wear the vinyl thin gloves just in case I find my missing queen so I can put her in the right hive. Worse case for me is one of my queens has been killed by the other. So I would be in your situation of having to buy another queen. My shipping is less since I am 1.5 hours from my vendor and USPS priority mail is next day. One day we will be better!


Well, I guess at least we are learning! Do you think the bees may be able to fix the situation themselves? I may just let them raise a queen. I don't know. I will have to think on it.


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

Great news Mike. Things went your way today. You should just call all of that skill!


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Maybe. It depends on the strength of the hive and if they have a viable egg to make a queen from. If the do you are 45 days from seeing any eggs,assuming nothing happens to the queen on her mating flight, like a hungry bird. I plan on studying queen rearing next month, but may not execute due to the limits on a city lot (5 max. hives). You do have a tough decision.


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## jadell (Jun 19, 2011)

It's usually 30 days until you see new eggs, not 45, under normal circumstances.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

OK, I got it queenright yesterday and swapped positions of the original hive and NUCs. Do these pictures indicate any issues? There seems to be unusually large activity on both NUCs. The yellow one is the one I mistakenly had my original queen in accidently.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Michael Bush has a page in his website called Bee Math. Link below. It's full of great info for timelines - how long till I get a queen, eggs, etc.
. 
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm
. 
Greg, you may be running out of time for letting a queen be raised and then get the nuc up to winter survival. Since you just lost a queen and fitty bucks shipping, I can certainly understand wanting not to invest in another. Maybe cut your losses and combine with original hive and be ready in spring to split. That way you have time to make a goof and then fix it without the pressure of impending winter.

Mike, I'm sorry, I really am unable to follow where what queen is but Gunter is correct - a hot hive can mean queenless. Are you saying you added a new queen to a nuc that already had a queen?


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Seymore said:


> Mike, I'm sorry, I really am unable to follow where what queen is but Gunter is correct - a hot hive can mean queenless. Are you saying you added a new queen to a nuc that already had a queen?


Sorry, the timeline is the original queen was transferred to the NUC with the yellow entrance system on Thursday when I did the split accidentally (unknown at that time). I re-queened the NUC#2 (green NUC was done on Thur. with first new queen, accidental short ship from supplier) Sat. at 10:00 AM when the new (second) queen arrived in the mail. Later that afternoon I noticed how full it was and went back into the hive and found the original queen on the first frame I pulled from NUC#2 (yellow entrance). I prodded her off the frame back into the original hive entrance, where she walked right in. I did swap hive positions on Sat. also (original and two NUCs). The pictures were taken on Sunday afternoon. I will probably go back into the NUC#2 to see if the queen is out and put an empty frame in and stay out of it for the next week. If these NUCs build up fast I am going to pull the plywood "table" off the stand and put two more 10 frame setups on it. They seem to build very quickly when being fed HBH & Amino B, plus MegaBee patties. I want them very prepared for winter and do not plan on pulling any honey this year. The main hive has settled back down now that their queen is back, I guess it takes a bit for the pheromones to disperse through the hive so the know they are not queenless. 
BTW Seymore where in Arkansas? I graduated from HS in Camden, many moons ago. I have my eye on Yellville near Mountain Home for retirement.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Well it sounds like everyone is QR now so that's the important thing. Just watch for robbing, but those reducers look like they may just do the trick. Ya like them?

I'm just west of Hot Springs. Grew up in HS and moved back after 20 years in SoCal. We are also scouting retirement. I'll check out Yellville. North Arkansas is beautiful. You sure you won't feel closed in with all those hills???


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I need some time with the entrance "wheels" before I can comment. I got them from Brushy Mountain. They have 4 positions, fully open, travel vent, queen excluder (current setting) and bumblebee excluder. I drilled a 1" hole for the entrance. So far I like them but we will see how they do over a couple of years.
I actually did a year at Arkadelphia State Teachers College and drove to HS for beer since we were in a dry county... My rational for Yellville is proximity to the county airport, for medivac, and proximity to hospitals. I looked at Eurika but it is on the wrong side of the lake time wise. I do have friends near Fayetteville so that is open too.
Thanks for the tag up.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Based on the bearding activity I moved both NUCs into 10 frame boxes then left them alone for about 5 days. I checked the NUC 2 that got the new queen last Sat. as I saw very little bee activity at the entrance. Well almost all of the bees migrated back to the original hive and it is pretty weak, but the queen is there. NUC 1 is much stronger , but will leave them alone for another week before checking. Original hive is still taking nearly a gallon of syrup mix a day and hive 2 (NUC 1) is over a quart a day. Hive 1 inspection tomorrow, too much rain today.


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

I like that hive stand !


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Sam Fugate said:


> I like that hive stand !


I found it on YouTube. Very simple the short pieces were 20" but on the 10' one I built on Sat. they are 17". I am using the Country Rubes SBB and the way they do the bottoms I had to sister 20" 2X4s on the inside of the stand so they would fit correctly. Even if you buy everything the most expensive items are the 1/2" pipe floor stands, $6.50 each at Lowes. I think the legs are 18" and my new one the are 10". The long pieces are 55" which as you can see in the picture is a bit narrow, and with 2 deeps one med and a top feeder it is pretty tall.









It is standing on some 12" square concrete "bricks" about 1-2" thick. The stand is leveled side to side and front to back, as I am starting to insert some foundatiomless frames.


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## G Barnett (May 13, 2012)

Follow up on my nuc mistake. I thought I would see if my nuc would build queen cells, after I killed the new queen. I checked the nuc this past Saturday and there were no queen cells. That was two weeks after I put frames in the box. I added another frame of brood, to keep the numbers up. I ordered a new queen on Sunday. I ordered a mated buckfast queen. 

She came today and I went to install her around 6pm. When I got into the nuc, there were 4 queen cells on the last frame I put in (there was a lot of bees in the nuc). I destroyed the queen cells. I really hated to do that and wish I had better knowledge to raise queens. Rest assured, I installed the new queen cage better this time. I guess we will see how this one goes!

Mike, I hope your project is coming along.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I had to resarect this thread due to a newbee MAJOR error! Well this morning I added a second deep to my new split hives since around 70% had comb built up with brood and stores. Well I had lunch and decided to put the shorter legs, 10" vs. 18", since I also added a med. super to my original hive as I only had one half of a frame empty in the second deep (did not go into the lower one). Anyway I got my farm jack out plus othr tools, nw jegs, etc. and started to raise it to unscrew tne pipe legs. Of couse the entire stand fell over and many thousands of angry bees decided I deserved to become a pin cushon. Luckily I was wearing my full bee suit and did not get stung. well I fixed the stand to its shorter configuration and reassembled the three hives. I had just filled all three FBM feeders, and put in one of the Beetle Jail traps that has also has drone fundation in it. I know I hae lost hundreds of bees, and I am hoping for the best on my queens. If no luck on the queens there is plenty of brood. I plan on waiting aome time before I go in them again. I hope the veggie oil tha was in the inside beetle traps does not cause any issues (all hives have Country Rubes SBBs so I hope all drains.
Any helpful advice on thigs I should have done or need to do would be appreciated


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