# Have I overcooked my syrup?



## emptyenergy (Mar 30, 2010)

Seems fine.


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## honeybeekeeper (Mar 3, 2010)

I dont think the bees will complain to much!...


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## Tara (Jun 17, 2010)

The syrup always goes yellowish. The thicker you make it, the more yellow it is. Really thick stuff starts to look a lot like honey. Hmmmm.... :shhhh:


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I boil the water and pour it over the sugar not visa verse. You don't want to cook the sugar in the hot water. Also pour some lemon juice into the mix. Changes the PH and makes it sweeter to them.


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## arcatamarcia (Oct 24, 2009)

I make mine exactly like you made yours. It always has a slight gold color to it. It's fine.


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## BigDaddyDS (Aug 28, 2007)

I've had syrup range from "pretty much clear" to "golden" to "light yellow with a greenish tinge", which seemed strange, but the girls took it down fine.


I advise people to bring water to NEAR boil, turn it off, add sugar without any direct heat. Or, use hot tap water and stir. A lot. The 1:1 syrup mixes fine with hot tap water, but the 2:1 syrup seems to require more stirring that I'd like to do. For 2:1, near boiling water seems to do the trick. 

DS


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## AndreiRN (Jun 13, 2008)

EastSideBuzz said:


> I boil the water and pour it over the sugar not visa verse. You don't want to cook the sugar in the hot water. Also pour some lemon juice into the mix. Changes the PH and makes it sweeter to them.


In reality the process is to bring the sugar syrup close to boiling point and add citric acid to transform the sucrose in fructose and that why is sweeter.
You want to make 3:1 or more and dilute it before use.
I make a herbal tea out of oak, walnut, sage, thyme, yarrow and other plants that kill viruses and bacterias and with that I make the syrup.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

I would suggest you explore the value of making inverted sugar syrup.
It isn't changing the PH that is as important that the acid makes the 
sugar change its chemical nature to something which the bees can use more readily. I understand that even without the boil time it will convert part of the sucrose.

"Inverted or invert[1] sugar syrup is a mixture of glucose and fructose; it is obtained by splitting sucrose into these two components. Compared with its precursor, sucrose, inverted sugar is sweeter and its products tend to remain more moist, and are less prone to crystallization. "

I use this ratio for 2:1 Fall feeding:
1 gallon of water brought to a boil and then add 15# of sugar, stir in and
return to very slow boil. Add 1oz of apple cider vinegar or 1 tsp of cream of tartar or 4-1000mg vitamin tablets. (You can use lemon juice if you prefer)
The important thing is that you add an acid and boil it to 
make invert sugar syrup. (as close to honey as beekeepers can afford)
It becomes thinner when it converts, you can see it.

When it cools I add 1 TBS of feeding stimulant which also retards spoilage. (as would ? cream of tartar and the invert process itself)

There is a lot of information on this site about inverted syrup.

Attempting to give them food as close as possible to honey. (I feel inverted is the better way to go, although a little more effort.)

BM


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## BigDaddyDS (Aug 28, 2007)

My thoughts are: Let the bees do the work. Rather than risk poisoning the bees by producing HMFs accidentally by boiling sugar syrup, or giving them dysentery by feeding them vinegars or lemon juice, give them ONLY what they need; sucrose. 

Refined white table sugar is the closest thing to nectar that we can give them. 

They'll add their own invertase to the syrup and convert it to honey themselves. Don't accidentally kill them with your kindness.

DS


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

BigDaddyDS said:


> My thoughts are: Let the bees do the work. Rather than risk poisoning the bees by producing HMFs accidentally by boiling sugar syrup, or giving them dysentery by feeding them vinegars or lemon juice, give them ONLY what they need; sucrose.
> 
> Refined white table sugar is the closest thing to nectar that we can give them.
> 
> ...


Research indicates that heavy fall feeding and conversion of sugar syrup adds stress to the colony, as they process the syrup into "honey". 

HMF and High fructose corn syrup (HFCS) go hand in hand.

Adding ACV to sugar syrup is not using GMO enzymes, like HFCS.

http://www.beebehavior.com/weak_state_bee_colonies.php 

Candy boards are in common use and at much higher temps?
Making caramel or burning sugar would likely produce HMF ? 
Bee careful and show them a little kindness.IMO 

BM


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

For 1:1 I don't even heat the water. It dissolves fine with hot tap water.


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## BigDaddyDS (Aug 28, 2007)

I thought I'd go ahead and let this go, but I find myself revisiting the thread in my head...


I need to retract my statement about HMFs being produced by overcooking syrup. I meant to say caramelizing. Caramelized sugar can gives the bees dysentery.


With that said, I strongly recommend that facts be checked out with various sources. To rely on one single source for your information (and not just with things concerning bees) is a dangerous thing. That's all I'm going to say on that.


But the crux of the conversation is overcooked syrup and additives within the syrup. (I'll try not to digress! I promise.) 

Brushmouth brings up candy boards, which a number of beekeepers use for over wintering their bees on. I am not a user of them, for a number of reasons. But I do know that over cooking the candy boards, thereby caramelizing the sugar, is bad for the bees. 

Brushmouth also brings up the thought that converting sugar syrup into "honey" stresses the bees, which I thoroughly disagree with. Bees gathering nectar (a source of sucrose) aren't stressed. They're doing what's natural for them. Your sugar syrup is just another source of sucrose to them.

A discussion regarding GMO products will have to wait for another thread. 

Happy beekeeping,
DS


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