# Hi from Wake Forest, NC



## HaplozygousNut

Hi. My name is Nathaniel. I'm 17 years old. We came to North Carolina from South Korea when I was close to 13 years old in 2011. My dad is American, so I'm a mix. Haven't kept bees before. I want to start Spring or early summer. I have kept other insects before, ****roaches, mantises, beetles, moths etc. I also keep fish. We live on an area with several acres. It is a mature hardwood forest with a lot of white oaks and red oak type oaks. Any advice on honeybees will be greatly appreciated, especially any tips for my area. 

I have a couple questions:

1, Is there a way to contain queens and drones when they emerge so that they will not interbreed with other subspecies of bees in our area?

2, Will Russian bees do alright here in the subtropical climate? (Southeastern tip of Granville County, NC)

Here are some pics of animals I have kept in the past, Warning!! They are not bees! lol
Blepharopsis mendica L8 female nymph:








Anallacta methanoides:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...33_1589802647908692_8213294395374501795_o.jpg

Lucanus elaphus recently emerged female:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...69_1703442519878037_8859428786753876403_o.jpg

Male recently taken out of pupal cell:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...25_1696989567189999_8031495855776399951_o.jpg

Dynastes tityus Minor Male (ouch):
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...56_1542204646001826_6850992113066353681_o.jpg


Tropheops sp. "Elongatus Boadzulu" Kanchedza Island Male:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12088073_1703441699878119_1555224107143083385_n.jpg?oh=801af915d68e78cbeef809d954a821c1&oe=570A17DF

Thank you,
Nathaniel


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## whiskers

1- People artificially inseminate queens for that purpose.
2- I believe people keep Russian bees that far south.
I looked at your pictures and I want to say based on that- I don't think you are going to have a bit of trouble raising bees.

Welcome-
Bill


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## julieandwadeshelton

Friend of mine up here in southern va just requeened with all Russians. Nice bugs!


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## HaplozygousNut

whiskers said:


> 1- People artificially inseminate queens for that purpose.
> 2- I believe people keep Russian bees that far south.
> I looked at your pictures and I want to say based on that- I don't think you are going to have a bit of trouble raising bees.
> 
> Welcome-
> Bill


Thank you for the welcome. I was thinking that they would breed with other people's bees (if they don't artificially inseminate) or mix in with wild bees (if there are any) here. Though I guess honeybees around here are already all mixed up... Thank you for the info.


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## HaplozygousNut

julieandwadeshelton said:


> Friend of mine up here in southern va just requeened with all Russians. Nice bugs!



Thanks.


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## Tenbears

Welcome!

There is no need to worry about isolating the queen, or drones, your drones will lend genetic diversity to the wild populations. Your queen should have already been bred. So there would be no need to isolate her. If she is replaced by supersedure, then you would not want her brothers to be the main breeding stock. Unless you move the hives to West Virginia.


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## Sunday Farmer

Guy Fritz is in Chapel Hill. He pollinates, but not sure when he will have queens available, but he does Russians, and occasionally has nucs for sale. 
Carniolans do well down here too, just saying. 
You're more than welcome to come tag along if you want with me and a couple friends Feb/March. I'm in CH and Cedar Grove.


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## Cloverdale

Tenbears said:


> Welcome!
> 
> There is no need to worry about isolating the queen, or drones, your drones will lend genetic diversity to the wild populations. Your queen should have already been bred. So there would be no need to isolate her. If she is replaced by supersedure, then you would not want her brothers to be the main breeding stock. Unless you move the hives to West Virginia.


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## Cloverdale

Welcome! I looked at your pics also, and liked the last one the best, a fish! The others I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole! :shhhh: :lookout:


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## heaflaw

Tenbears said:


> Welcome!
> 
> There is no need to worry about isolating the queen, or drones, your drones will lend genetic diversity to the wild populations. Your queen should have already been bred. So there would be no need to isolate her. If she is replaced by supersedure, then you would not want her brothers to be the main breeding stock. Unless you move the hives to West Virginia.


If you keep the same hives for more than a year or maybe 2, the genetics of your colonies and the colonies, kept and wild, within a few miles, will form an interconnected gene pool.


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## HaplozygousNut

Tenbears said:


> Welcome!
> 
> There is no need to worry about isolating the queen, or drones, your drones will lend genetic diversity to the wild populations.


They are different subspecies, and not just different gene pool, so I thought that interbreeding would make weak and not so good bees in the future, already happened though?


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## HaplozygousNut

Sunday Farmer said:


> Guy Fritz is in Chapel Hill. He pollinates, but not sure when he will have queens available, but he does Russians, and occasionally has nucs for sale.
> Carniolans do well down here too, just saying.
> You're more than welcome to come tag along if you want with me and a couple friends Feb/March. I'm in CH and Cedar Grove.


Ooh! I would love to meet you and some other beeks! I like the name "beek", saw it on the forum yesterday. Yes, I like the Carniolans very much. I read in a book that there have shipped some pure Carniolans into the United States. Are they easy to find? I know that pure does not matter that much, but as long as I am looking for bees I might just look for some.


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## HaplozygousNut

heaflaw said:


> If you keep the same hives for more than a year or maybe 2, the genetics of your colonies and the colonies, kept and wild, within a few miles, will form an interconnected gene pool.


I wanted to avoid having them mix up, if for nothing better, for fun. Sorry, I'm officially crazy.


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## HaplozygousNut

Thank you!!


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## Slow Drone

Tenbears said:


> Welcome!
> 
> Unless you move the hives to West Virginia.


Very tacky Tenbears:no: Welcome to Beesource! Inbreeding shouldn't be a concern there are a lot of beekeepers in your area.


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## GaryG74

Welcome to BeeSource!


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## HaplozygousNut

Slow Drone said:


> Very tacky Tenbears:no: Welcome to Beesource! Inbreeding shouldn't be a concern there are a lot of beekeepers in your area.


Okay. I do not know much about bees, do the drones of other subspecies or hybrids not travel from a far away area and mix with different subspecies readily? You mean interbreeding?


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## Slow Drone

Inbreeding is when they mate within their own family. I believe crossbreeding is what you may be thinking, that's when they breed with the same species but different families.


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## heaflaw

HaplozygousNut said:


> I wanted to avoid having them mix up, if for nothing better, for fun. Sorry, I'm officially crazy.


A bee hive will normally supercede their queen every year or at least every 2 years. The only way you could assure genetics from surrounding colonies don't come into your hives would be to requeen with purchased queens every year.

Also, bee colonies in the wild are not a different subspecies than purchased bees.


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## HaplozygousNut

heaflaw said:


> Also, bee colonies in the wild are not a different subspecies than purchased bees.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apis_mellifera_subspecies


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## HaplozygousNut

Slow Drone said:


> Inbreeding is when they mate within their own family. I believe crossbreeding is what you may be thinking, that's when they breed with the same species but different families.


What do you mean by "family"? 
Interbreeding pretty much just means mixing of different type of animal, I think. I used to think it was specifically for different species or subspecies or varieties, not including breeds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)

In animals we get problems from too much inbreeding sometimes...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding


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## bbruff22

Welcome from NE Kansas! I won't forget your handle.


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## heaflaw

HaplozygousNut said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apis_mellifera_subspecies


Maybe we are misunderstanding each other, but the Wikipedia link does NOT state that wild bees in the Americas are a different subspecies than what can be purchased from breeders. Apis mellifera are not native to the Americas. They were introduced by settlers and later imported by beekeepers - all from Europe (ligustica, carnica, caucasia ,mellifera, etc). All wild (feral) colonies came originally from swarms of these bees. The feral colonies and the beekeeper kept colonies have continually traded genetics back and forth. The only differences I can think of would be that feral colonies are better adapted to local conditions and in some areas have developed mechanisms to survive with Varroa.


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## HaplozygousNut

heaflaw said:


> Maybe we are misunderstanding each other, but the Wikipedia link does NOT state that wild bees in the Americas are a different subspecies than what can be purchased from breeders. Apis mellifera are not native to the Americas. They were introduced by settlers and later imported by beekeepers - all from Europe (ligustica, carnica, caucasia ,mellifera, etc). All wild (feral) colonies came originally from swarms of these bees. The feral colonies and the beekeeper kept colonies have continually traded genetics back and forth. The only differences I can think of would be that feral colonies are better adapted to local conditions and in some areas have developed mechanisms to survive with Varroa.


Ah, sorry for misunderstanding. I wonder about how much resistance the feral populations get to varroa mites. They may be great if they are adapted to these things naturally. Russian bees are from what I have read.

Any special advice for catching feral bees? Thanks.


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## HaplozygousNut

bbruff22 said:


> Welcome from NE Kansas! I won't forget your handle.


Thank you for welcome.


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## Rader Sidetrack

Welcome to Beesource! 

You may sometimes see references to "_native_" bees. In North America, native bees are _not_ honey bees, but would include bees such as bumble bees, sweat bees and carpenter bees etc. More here: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5306468

If you are interested in catching honey bee swarms (perhaps some from '_unmanaged_' honey bee colonies), here are some tips ... https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/2653/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf


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## HaplozygousNut

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Welcome to Beesource!
> 
> You may sometimes see references to "_native_" bees. In North America, native bees are _not_ honey bees, but would include bees such as bumble bees, sweat bees and carpenter bees etc. More here: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5306468
> 
> If you are interested in catching honey bee swarms (perhaps some from '_unmanaged_' honey bee colonies), here are some tips ... https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/2653/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf


Thank you for the good link Rader Sidetrack!! I see that we have a nice variety of bumble bees in the US... http://bugguide.net/node/view/253361/bgpage
I was told that they are (at least one type of Bumble bee) better than honeybees for greenhouses for pollinating.


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## heaflaw

My opinion is that it would be very difficult to keep treatment free bees for more than 2 years of so if neighboring bees (feral and kept) are not also treatment free.


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## HaplozygousNut

heaflaw said:


> My opinion is that it would be very difficult to keep treatment free bees for more than 2 years of so if neighboring bees (feral and kept) are not also treatment free.


Are not the Varroa mites already present in most colonies, just the more resistant ones (hygienic, Russian bees, feral bees?) don't let the mites thrive so that they would not do much damage to the hive colony?


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## Belewsboy

I bought a couple of Russian Nucs from Ray Revis in Morgonton, NC a couple of years ago. They do fine here (not far from you). However, they are more prone to swarming due to explosive expansion in the spring and to be honest, my Italians produce more honey than the Russians. The main thing I like about Russians is they have a very small population during the winter months. In the Piedmont area of NC, we have quite a few warm days during the Winter and honey stores can disappear very quickly, but the Russians and their small cluster are very frugal.
I like Russians and in the Summer I usually requeen with a Russian on a hive or two, but my bees now are just Mutts. I rarely lose a hive and have good honey production. Can't ask for more than that!


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## heaflaw

Belewsboy said:


> . I rarely lose a hive and have good honey production. Can't ask for more than that!


Do you treat for anything?


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## phyber

welcome to beesource!

I don't really get what you're looking to do by keeping the queen and drones in...as mentioned, your package queen will already be mated, and the drones are gonna do what boys do...

with that said, if you have a good package queen, then that's fine. But I'd want a locally bred queen ASAP in the hopes that she would instill traits of survival in the offspring. Packages brought up from Georgia enter a totally different environment in VA/NC, especially once the "polar vortex" hits like it has the past few years.


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## Belewsboy

I have only had 2 issues...beetles and mites. Beetles I don't worry about...even though in the heat of the Summer, I can watch them fly straight into the entrance. I keep my hives in full sun and as long as there is a sizable population of bees, they never get a foothold. I squash them when I see them, but don't set traps or any other mechanical or chemical safeguards. The bees keep them in check.
As for mites, I used to use formic acid on a fume board, but now I use OAV...soooo quick and easy...and very effective. I treat in the fall and that's it. This Summer they were especially numerous (see pic).
But as stated above, Winter can be lethal here. Not due to the cold, but due to the warm days. The girls will consume the honey all around the cluster and then all of a sudden the temps get into the teens. They will starve. In fact, 2 of my friends lost their hives during the Winter due to starvation. However, mine survive. In the Fall I set out a 5 gallon bucket of syrup and open feed usually about 10 gallons worth. But then I rotate the brood boxes to make sure the cluster is in the top box and place sugar bricks on the top bar of the frames. They are the secret to my Winter survival rates. The bricks are always directly above the cluster and they tear them up. One Fall I never open fed and the hives had little to no honey stores, but the bricks kept them fed and all hives survived the Winter. Now my friends are using them with the same success.


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## heaflaw

HaplozygousNut said:


> Are not the Varroa mites already present in most colonies, just the more resistant ones (hygienic, Russian bees, feral bees?) don't let the mites thrive so that they would not do much damage to the hive colony?


Yes, exactly. All hives have varroa. Treatment free bees are able to not let the varroa overcome the hives by different means. They may groom the mites off of each other or they destroy mites where they breed and give birth in the capped pupa of the bees and there may be other ways. VSH bees, bred by USDA, kill mites by the last method. The bees that were selected to become VSH were gathered from survivor treatment free bees in the US. Russians are descendants of survivor bees that Russian colonists took to the east coast of Asia 250 years ago. 

There is also the concept that just as honey bees vary in genetics, so do varroa mites. Some mites are more virulent than others. Without human intervention, when varroa destroys a hive, the varroa die also. Surviving colonies are the ones in which the varroa are not as destructive and bees and mites are able to survive symbiotically(read writings of Tom Seeley and research South Africa's method of dealing with varroa). 

That's my concise version of how it works.


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## AmericasBeekeeper

Welcome Nathaniel!


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## HaplozygousNut

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> Welcome Nathaniel!


Thank you!!


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