# Titebond II - what happened?



## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Sky said:


> I have been using Titebond II wood glue for years..... I always bought this in the "smaller" sized containers (16-20) oz size, the glue holds well, sets up quick, etc...I used to love it....
> 
> I recently treated myself to a gallon sized jug of TB2 for xmas... I've tried it on two projects - its been a disappointment.
> 
> ...


Temperature abuse? Did it freeze before or after you purchased it?


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## Galaxie (May 13, 2015)

Maybe you got a jug from a bad batch? You could try contacting their customer service dept. and have them check the batch number.

My only other thought is maybe your jug got frozen at some point before you tried to use it, but I would expect it to be lumpy or separated if that happened. :scratch: (Doh, I didn't see the post above mine!)


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I had trouble using tb2 and similar so moved to titebond 3 a couple of years ago.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I've had TB III go south after freezing. Not sure if it would happen to II but maybe.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I buy Titebond II in gallon jugs, and have not had performance issues, although its been about 8 months since my last TBII purchase.


According to the manufacturer, Titebond glues (still in the jug) can tolerate a _limited_ amount of freeze cycles.


> Can Titebond Wood Glues Be Used After They Have Been Frozen?
> Yes. While freezing is not recommended, extensive testing indicates that the glues can be frozen and thawed up to five times without compromising performance. If your glue has been frozen, let it acclimate to room temperature and shake/stir to original form.
> 
> http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/LiteraturePDFs/FF683_GlueGuideTB.sflb.ashx


That page also offers a method of decoding the production lot code/date printed on each bottle. It might be interesting to see how old the product is. Certainly if you contact the manufacturer, they will want to know the lot code.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've had it last years if it didn't freeze. If it freezes it's worthless. Maybe it froze at some time, before or after you got it.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I'd contact the company and see what they say. I've had my TBII freeze and used it and never seemed to have a problem. In fact I just found half of a smaller bottle in the garage that I thought was in the basement and brought it in. I'm more careful with my TBIII (because it costs more), but now I have my gallons in the basement and refill the smaller ones as needed. I've even glued up well below the recommended temperatures with seemingly no ill effects. Now if tested against perfect conditions it probably isn't as good, but it certainly isn't bad enough for me to worry about it. I do typically wait to seal the end grain until the temperatures are right.

Where did you buy it from Sky? If it was from Amazon or similar site it is pretty easy to end up getting a "deal" on some older stuff that someone decided needed to be moved. I couldn't find a better price than Home Depot on the gallons and I can be relatively certain that they're moving enough Titebond that I'm getting fresh stuff.

Good luck!


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

thanks for the responses.....(Radar, Thanks for link to decipher the lot number codes) 

If it froze, it was before I got it- it's been in the house since xmas - nice and toasty warm. 

I've had bottles of TB2 in the shop (unheated) get really cold and I often do glue ups when the temps are in the 30's-40's - never been an issue - likewise humidity near 100 and no issues.... even used some of questionable vintage (6 yrs?) that I know had frozen many times and it was (lumpy, but) still good....

This jug came from Lowes (big box store) - Purchased right before last xmas. Lot number (A510020091) indicates Made in America, 2015, October 2, lot 0091) - 
I'll drop the Manufacturer a note - it may have been a "bad" batch (?).... I don't expect much to come from it, though not happy about the need to buy and drive a box of screws into my nice new supers to make up for the lack of glue-goodness.

Thanks

Sky


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Please let us know what the Titebond folks say!

Tech support:[email protected]
http://www.titebond.com/about_us.aspx


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I buy it by the gallon and have had good luck doing it that way. When the glue goes bad it gets stringy and it is junk. You did not mention stringy. If you are using it too cold it gets 'chalky'
I think the ‘shake it up’ trick is for TB III, not for TB II.
I contacted them when I was building cedar birdhouses and had the one I was sending to a contest fail. They were very helpful and sent me a pint bottle of their polyurethane glue and a coupon for more glue. These guys will make it right (and it helps to mention that you are a on a forum that brags up their glue and you are disappointed).


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

minz said:


> If you are using it too cold it gets 'chalky'


I have noticed that. Do you know if this effects the quality of the joint in any way? This is just for bee boxes, so it's not like I care if it's a little chalky around the fingers. They sure seem solid after it's cured.


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

the glue looks good - even color in the jug - no separation was apparent. texturally, its smooth, no lumps or stinginess, doesn't feel "thin" no grit or otherwise. It flows nice, and spreads nice, and when two pieces with glue are "rubbed" together they do stick and feel tacky.... the glue just doesn't set. 
I did drop a note to the TB folks via their website, I'll share their reply when it rolls in... 

Sky


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Betcha that if you tell this story to the attendant at the customer service desk at the Lowes, they at least offer to exchange it for a new jug.
Bill


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I had a gallon separate on me last year. I figure it was my own danged fault for leaving it in the garage over the winter, which almost certainly froze it.

I still managed to use it (on a non-critical job on some hive bodies), and it set up. I would not use it for the structural job I originally bought it for.


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

No doubt, I am sure they would... and I may do that - never had a problem at Lowes exchanging something funky... (I'll have to ask for an exchange-at-a-later time or some such arrangement...I'd like to wait for a different lot to show up on the shelf  
I did let the vendor know - its their product, they should always hear when there is a problem in the satisfaction dept of end-user land - (i'd like to believe they listen.... ) and its how products and services improve. 
and who knows.... if it's a funky batch, maybe they can do something thru their supply chain to at least get some of it off the shelves before anyone else gets disappointed....


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I always buy by the gallon and have been on the titebond website so I can tell when the glue was manufactured. Their recommendation was to not buy old stock over a year old if possible. I've never had an issue with TBIII and the last quart of my jug did freeze once. I shook it and didn't notice any decrease in performance. Titebond is a decent company, they sent me some glue samples and I didn't even ask for them. Personally, I would return the glue to the box store. You never know how long was it sitting somewhere waiting to be shipped in sub freezing, being shipped sub freezing, waiting to be stocked sub freezing...


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Not setting at all indicates a problem with manufacture -–even if it does not polymerize properly (the "chalky" thing if it freezes while setting, for instance) it will dry out.

Definitely give Titebond a call, I suspect there is something very wrong with that batch. I've had some that froze repeatedly last winter and once I got it resuspended properly, it worked fine. Lumpy and extra thick, but it stuck like it should. All Titebond III -- I only use Titebond II for frames.

Peter


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

If it came from Santa it might have frozen before it got here.


Can you tell I'm bored on a Sunday night????


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

Agreed that if it's not setting up at all, something is almost certainly wrong with the manufacture of the batch

Chalking happens when the glue is used at too low an ambient temperture, or materials are too cold. Essentially the glue is drying before it can develop proper chemical bond....it definetly effects the strength and longevity of the bond. How bad is always hard to say as it depends on how much of the bonding occurred before it dried out. Sometimes it's still pretty strong, but anytime you see it chalk up it should be deemed suspect.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

As mentioned above, simply take it back to Lowe's for an exchange.


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

followup - 

I contacted Franklin International through their website and left a note regarding the issue. I did receive a response from them the following day... 

" Have you checked the moisture content of the wood? Titebond II Premium Wood Glue is a water based product in which the water needs to leave the product in order to allow the glue to cure. Is there anything on the surface of the wood that is preventing the glue from drying? 
Please let us know how else we can help. "

I did respond with some additional details - that the wood is pine lumber from a big box store (kiln-dried) purchased years ago, made into furniture which lived in the house near the woodstove (baked dry), and has now been recut/resurfaced (raw unfinished wood) for beehives. I added that the left overs from my previous bottle worked like a charm, this batch just didn't. also gave tehm a link to the this posting on the forum.

That was a week ago... 

not sure if i will hear anything back from them again or not - if they respond further, I'll update this thread.

Since then.... my original glue-ups have finally dried after two weeks - the parts are bonded - i don't know how well (time will tell) and I will be adding screws to back up the glue (the glue was backing up the nails). I'll be visiting with my friendly CSR at Lowes this week to work a swap for a jug from another batch.

Sky


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks for posting - now I'll certainly make a bonding test piece before gluing up a bunch of equipment.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

Thanks, SKY, for keeping us posted. Almost 3000 are VERY INTERESTED.

Phil


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## Galaxie (May 13, 2015)

Sky said:


> ...also gave tehm a link to the this posting on the forum.
> That was a week ago...
> not sure if i will hear anything back from them again or not - if they respond further, I'll update this thread.


Perhaps the link may have caused your email to get caught by their spam filter?


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

hmmmm..... I hadn't thought of that - i'll resend it just to see if any thing comes from them or not and to ensure they did get a response....

I did take the glue back to Lowes - had no problems swapping it.. (different lot number I checked on the spot  ) 

I've already managed to (unintentionally I assure you) glue a super to my workbench - So I am giving this jug very high marks in the "glues stuff together REALLY well" category.

Sky


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> I've already managed to (unintentionally I assure you) glue a super to my workbench ...

I have salvaged a couple of 'free' treadmills for their components. Some treadmills have DC motors with a variable speed control. I adapted one of those to drive my extractor. Other treadmills have fixed speed AC motors (and a variable speed pulley). 

In both cases, the treadmills had a 1.25" thick, flat, particleboard platform to support the belt that the runners run on. The top of that platform (where the treadmill belt slides) was finished with some kind of smooth slippery product similar to Formica that Titebond just doesn't stick to. So that platform makes a good flat surface to assemble hive bodies on. 


... and it was _free_


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