# What Australia thinks about neonics



## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I'll bet they don't use the combined load of other chemicals that is found in the USA, like fungicides, so it is balanced out better. It is the Wild West in the USA as far as chemical use goes in some places.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I have long felt that fungicides are much more deadly than neonics. Most of the hives I've lost to pesticides in the last few years appear to be from the synergistic action between organophosphates and fungicides. I think the fungicides impact the pollen/beebread and cause a slow death of the hives. Lost several hives from an apple orchard pollination after the neighbor sprayed with fungicides - the tank had previously held insecticides. That's why I've quit much of my pollinating.


----------



## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a hive that was located near an orchard that suddenly developed IBDS and died. It was an obvious brood disease type situation, but no specific symptoms - looked like a stew of all brood diseases except basically AFB. I originally thought it was mites, but it happened a scant month after I let them requeen, and should not have had a high mite load. After the fact, I heard the neighboring orchard owner had sprayed a month prior without telling anyone. Not sure what he sprayed, but I am pretty confident it poisoined the pollen they brought in and eventually killed them. I destroyed all the drawn comb and caged the queen so they could clean it up - but they did not get strong enough to survive winter and basically froze. I wonder how many other people lose hives like this, thinking it is mites, but was really poisoned pollen.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

A novice beekeeper, who does not inspect often and doesn't know what they are looking at can have this problem. I think one can tell from the queens laying pattern and then the spotty brood which develops later. If the queens pattern is good, but the brood is dieing then it could be poisoned pollen. I watched the hives that survived the spraying closely and the queens patterns were fine, but the brood wasn't surviving or the bees were short lived. Never built up enough to survive the winter. Small clusters and sickly bees. I did trash the brood frames from those colonies and reused the boxes with no problems.


----------



## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

What I saw looked very much like EFB - but there were also some dead in their cells. My queen was just fine as were the adult bees. The whole thing stunk and smelled like mildewed dead bees. Might have just been a case of EFB - which is basically a form of poisoned pollen. What I did would have been the same regardless. All poisoned pollen either way - from chemicals or bacteria. Some fungicides and chemicals build up in the pollen and do not affect the adults. It was just ironic that the neighbors actions co-incided with what happened to this hive. I would love to know what he sprayed.


----------



## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

Australia has used neonics since the mid 1990s
Australia has no varroa
Australia has healthy bees

It will be interesting to see if the European ban on certain neonics on bee attractive crops such as Canola/oil seed rape makes any difference to bee health. I doubt it.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I agree... and they did not ban fipronil in Europe which is the insecticide that is terrible for bees. And, of course, varroa is the big bee killer.


----------



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

jonathan said:


> Australia has used neonics since the mid 1990s
> Australia has no varroa
> Australia has healthy bees
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the European ban on certain neonics on bee attractive crops such as Canola/oil seed rape makes any difference to bee health. I doubt it.


Most of our Australian bees are not on Canola, Maize etc but on native vegetation


----------



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

camero7 said:


> I agree... and they did not ban fipronil in Europe which is the insecticide that is terrible for bees. And, of course, varroa is the big bee killer.


This is how Fibronil is used in Australia ( I don't use them myself) - read the scientific data http://www.apithor.com.au/


----------

