# Cut out ?



## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

Doing my 1st cut out Saturday morning, temp will be in the upper 40's. This is in the wall of an old abandoned house, was told the bees have been their for 3 years. Will use a bee vac after I remove the horizonal wood siding, my wife and another bee keeper will be helping. When I looked at this a few days ago tons of bees coming and going. Have did my homework and think I am ready. My question is what are the biggest mistakes a a new bee keeper will make doing a cut out?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Plan on it taking a lot longer than you would expect, brings lots of buckets of water for rinsing your hands and stuff off with.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Bring three or four times as many rubber bands for tying in the comb than you think you'll use.

Pay attention to comb orientation (up and down) when putting it in frames.

Enj.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

The biggest mistakes I have heard of Thinking it will be simple & easy, Doing it for Free, Smoking the heck out of the hive & then vacuuming most of the bees (without considering the different amount of suction needed, with honey gorged bees), before removing any comb. Not bringing all the tools, boxes, buckets, etc. you need and having to leave and come back. Comb orientation as enjambres pointed out is HUGE


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Read through this thread

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ve-under-mobile-home&highlight=Jbeshearse+cut

Patbeek went on from here to do (and still does ) lots of successful removals.


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

Ditto what JRG13, Enjambres, and Fieldsofnaturalhoney said. They are spot on.

Have contingency plans as best as you can and extra tools and equipment. Murphy will get involved, and he don't play fair.

The biggest mistake I did on our first cut out was vacuum was to strong. Use as little vacuum as you can. If it feels like there isn't any vacuum you are getting close. 

A minor problem was not having the correct tool. Bring extra pry bars - long and short. We were able to overcome, but it would have been easier with the right tool.

Monitor temperature of the vacuum box. I place a thermometer through the box to monitor temperature. Along the same lines, make sure not to turn off the vacuum once you get started, or they will can overheat.
Also depending on the type of vacuum box, I put a drawn comb in the vacuum box filled with water. It helps with temperature and gives them access to water. The rest of the frames are foundation.

When you get the bees on the truck in the evening, don't stop. They need the air flow.

On the last cutout in August with temperatures in the upper 90s, our generator went out in a big ball of smoke toward the end of the day. Luckily we had 200 feet of extension cord was able to talk the neighbor into us using her power for the nominal fee of $20.00 and a pint of honey. Yep, we were 2 hours from home in a small small town, and nothing near. I am going to mount a larger power inverter in my truck to use as backup for the new smaller vacuum.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

How could I forget, the mistake of starting a removal without knowing with 100 percent accuracy, that the hive is in the cavity one thinks they are in? In this case, it may not matter, but homes that are occupied...let's just say that everyone is in for a surprise, & the homeowners are usually a little unhappy:scratch:


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

I find that taking a fold out table to work on is a great help when you are banding comb in frames. 

Take a queen cage, in the event you find the queen. 

Use the vac as a last resort. It always works out best for me and the bees to put the box with the queen and comb next to where they were and then come back after dark to collect them and vacuum up the last stragglers. Else you can expect a call from the customer about there being a ball of bees (usually stated as a huge bunch of bees) hanging around the next day. 

These me are reasons I don't usually travel more than 25 miles from home to do cutouts.


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

Hoping the siding will come off easy, it is very old, if not what type of saw do you all use?


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Is it Sheetrock on the inside? If so may be easier from the inside. I find the studs and mark them. Then set a circular saw for enough depth to get through the siding and cut in the middle of the stud, so they can be nailed up


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Take several queen cages, you may find several virgins that the hive has been keeping from emerging. In the confusion, they all get out at the same time and you have more than one queen to catch.

Go to an office supply place and buy one of the big bags of rubber bands so you don't run out.


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

house to be torn down so ot to worried about being to neat, just efficient. inside of house might be unsafe, ceiling falling in and floor unstable .


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Ferg said:


> Doing my 1st cut out Saturday morning, temp will be in the upper 40's. This is in the wall of an old abandoned house, was told the bees have been their for 3 years. Will use a bee vac after I remove the horizonal wood siding, my wife and another bee keeper will be helping. When I looked at this a few days ago tons of bees coming and going. Have did my homework and think I am ready. My question is what are the biggest mistakes a a new bee keeper will make doing a cut out?


The biggest mistake I can see is trying to remove the bees in the upper 40's. This will surely kill all the brood and the hive will suffer (or completely fail) because of it. I'd suggest waiting until warmer temps.

Or you could remove the hive and toss all the brood (not recommended), or keep the brood warm and moist somehow.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> How could I forget, the mistake of starting a removal without knowing with 100 percent accuracy, that the hive is in the cavity one thinks they are in?


Yup! We started on the wrong side of the wall. It only cost us a 10 minutes, and access from the other side was pretty easy.



enjambres said:


> Pay attention to comb orientation (up and down) when putting it in frames.


And don't put it in sideways, (at the 3:45 mark of the same video).


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I've done a few cutouts and generally don't save the brood unless it's like in perfect sheets of comb. (like that ever happens)
It's never easy and never goes as planned but if you bring three of everything you might need is a good start.

The tool I use most often to find the bees is a very long 3/16th inch drill bit. I poke around with it until it comes out wet with honey. 
We've tried listening with stethoscopes, heat imaging, and all sorts of weird methods to try and find the bees but really, the drill bit works the most reliably.


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

Thanks for all the good advice, its almost showtime


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Ferg said:


> house to be torn down so ot to worried about being to neat, just efficient. inside of house might be unsafe, ceiling falling in and floor unstable .


Prybar. Three pound sledgehammer.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Ferg said:


> Thanks for all the good advice, its almost showtime


Wear a GoPro!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Mr.Beeman said:


> The biggest mistake I can see is trying to remove the bees in the upper 40's. This will surely kill all the brood and the hive will suffer (or completely fail) because of it. I'd suggest waiting until warmer temps.


Indeed, especially if the day time temps, by the time the hive is exposed & transfer begins is not at least 60+degrees. Brood, eggs, & larvae are essential in there rebuilding process, please don't waste it, especially if you are not sure if her highness is captured in the process. What's the forecast for Saturday & Sunday in TX?
Aunt Betty, you need a boroscope with your drill bit, but my favorite & most reliable is still the FLIR. In this case it's only extra work if your not correct the first time


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

current temp 49 degrees, high today 61. By the time we get their and start to work should be in the mid 50's.


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## Sharpbees (Jun 26, 2012)

Don't use a vac hose over 8ft long if possible. Take more frames than you think you'll need. Band brood into frames. Crush and strain honey and feed it back to them. I use cage wire with 2"x3" squares to keep comb in the frames, since I do cutouts as part of my business I found that it's easier using the wire. I staple it to the frames and leave one side so that it hinges then put the comb in the frames and staple it shut. It is much faster than rubber bands and I never have comb sagging. I wait a few weeks then remove the wire once the comb is attached to the frames. Try to leave as many bees on brood comb as possible instead of vacuuming every thing. I can do most cutouts in a few hours. I never do them for free because of the work involved and there is always a big chance the bees won't make it. I also try to wait until temps are in the high 50's but prefer the 60's.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

"Don't use a vac hose over 8ft long if possible"...

How about don't use a vacuum at all. We do a lot of bee removals here and our philosophy is to remove the bees with as little trauma as possible. I have a couple of helpers here that can almost always locate the queen, and cage her, and that is always our initial goal when transferring comb. We always save the major brood combs and band them into frames. Why would you not do that unless you have never seen it done properly? Opening up walls to locate bees in a real crap shoot and you'll never know what's actually behind door #3 until you open things up. Things do not always go as planned. Its like beekeepers in general, there are good beekeepers and not so good beekeepers, and those who know how to cut out colonies. Do we have a bee vacuum? Yes, and it stays in the truck 99% of the time.


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

Well my 1st cut out is in the books, nothing like I expected. We did the cut out from inside this abandoned house. Picture tells the story. No brood, no honey, several queen cups that were saved. We think this colony just swarmed, did not see the queen, saw several drones, vacuumed quite a few bees and put them in a deep box with the queen cells. Bees are alive and and well. Time will tell what happens next. Surprised the way the cone was positioned inside the wall. Not sure how these bees were living with no pollen or honey. Either way it was fun, my wife and I learned a lot.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Queen cups or capped queen cells. Did you check the areas on the other side of the upper stud and the stud to the right? If not, you might go back and look if it is handy. Cheers,


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Riskybizz said:


> "Don't use a vac hose over 8ft long if possible"...
> 
> How about don't use a vacuum at all. We do a lot of bee removals here and our philosophy is to remove the bees with as little trauma as possible. I have a couple of helpers here that can almost always locate the queen, and cage her, and that is always our initial goal when transferring comb. We always save the major brood combs and band them into frames. Why would you not do that unless you have never seen it done properly? Opening up walls to locate bees in a real crap shoot and you'll never know what's actually behind door #3 until you open things up. Things do not always go as planned. Its like beekeepers in general, there are good beekeepers and not so good beekeepers, and those who know how to cut out colonies. Do we have a bee vacuum? Yes, and it stays in the truck 99% of the time.


How do you get the stragglers and runners without the bee vac? How about the one's that cover the windows on an inside removal?


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

I think they were capped queen cups, I opened one up and there was a live larva inside, looked liked small peanuts. We looked both sides and above the cut out, not other bees or comb.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Ferg said:


> I think they were capped queen cups, I opened one up and there was a live larva inside, looked liked small peanuts. We looked both sides and above the cut out, not other bees or comb.


Well done.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

I make, and bring to every cutout, 15 frames that are split, and fold. Rubber hinges, opens just like a book, with mesh on the outside. Open it, place a big slab inside, close the book, 1 staple on center of topbar. In the box it goes. And if you charge enough, they may not ask you to. To me, thats a positive thing. Some companies here, get $125 per hour to do cutouts. I don't charge that high, but I always feel it is barely worth it. Not all times of the year are good to get a cutout colony back to normal. It's huge stress on the bees.
Try to finish before dusk, as all the foragers, and the bees will want to be inside with their queen. Move it after dark. Even retrieving them at first light, if possible, will help with the flyers.
Getting the queen into the box as soon as you can helps. For the inevitable stragglers that refuse to go into the new box, bring a pump sprayer, with soapy water. This is for the home owner, not you.
.
I'm not very fond of cutout jobs, but some folks enjoy it. Have fun!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Ferg said:


> Picture tells the story. No brood, no honey, several queen cups that were saved. We think this colony just swarmed, did not see the queen, saw several drones, vacuumed quite a few bees and put them in a deep box with the queen cells. Bees are alive and and well. Surprised the way the cone was positioned inside the wall. Not sure how these bees were living with no pollen or honey.


Was that all of the comb in the pic? If so, unlikely one colony had been there for 3-4years. Why were you surprised of comb position? What is the estimate cluster size/lbs of bees? Seems like they had plenty room for expansion from the pic, so I wonder why they would have swarmed? Especially, if resources were already low. Of course, if they did, a lot of the groceries left with them Really, no drone or worker brood either?


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## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

Yes the picture shows most of the comb, No drone or brood capped cells. We guessed the cluster at about 3 lbs. As a new beekeeper I do not understand why there was no brood, no honey, and capped queen cells(peanuts)? Yes they had room to expand. In my mind I thought the conb would be 4" wide and very long. I guess bees build as they see fit.


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