# Anybody ever work.. prisoners?



## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Convicts do get out eventually.

Do you really want convicts to get a good look at your family/property and the family/property of your neighbors?

Do any of them have the required skills in the first place?

IMHO, you'll need to have a long talk with your family and neighbors beforehand.

However, it does present an opportunity to expand exponentially.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Having worked many years in a prison facility, I will tell you this, the recidivism (going back to jail after being released and committing additional violent acts) rate is over 60% for violent offenders. If I were going to hire prison gangs, I'd make sure they were convicted of non-violent crimes.


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## WillT (Jan 20, 2012)

If your talking about work release they get around 3 dollar an hour in NC. You also get some very nice tax breaks for taking part in the program.

The prisoners really want these jobs and its a one time deal, if they screw up they don't get another chance at work release. So they tend not to screw up.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Aren't they required to wear shackles when outside of prison grounds?

That might make beekeeping next to impossible.

Of course, if you could set up on prison property, it might make beekeeping feasible.

If you can't set up on prison grounds, then maybe using county property would at least keep the issue out of your own backyard.

I don't know how bees might react to the shackles on those convicts.


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## WillT (Jan 20, 2012)

WLC said:


> Aren't they required to wear shackles when outside of prison grounds?


No, its called work release. They go out and work like normal people and then go back to jail when they are done working. Its reserved for inmates that have done a long stretch and are nearing the end of their time. They also have to have perfect behavior.

I think the whole idea is they can get use to public and earn some money before they are released.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

make sure you know what the libility issues are and get them in writting.
Prisioners all get free legal service where you will have to pay to defend yourself!


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

Treat them like people, not prisoners. Except don't be asking for trouble by showing them what they don't need to see. IOW, don't be showing them your coin collection or bragging about your nice stash of guns and ammo. Just use common sense and you should be alright. I am not the most experienced person in this area, but those I've dealt with were just wanting to get on with their lives and stay out of trouble. (though there is recidivism and these were non-violent types). -js


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## willyC (May 6, 2010)

We have work crews from an "honor farm" minimum security prison come through our property to maintain the irrigation ditch. They always want to do extra work so they can stay out longer during the day. So I have had them cut and stack firewood or other heavy lifting around the place, has worked out so far. I dont let them in the house or shop. All have been polite and hard workers but I imagine they are hand picked for service in town.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Skinner Apiaries said:


> Im finding some of my neighbors are running prison gangs for a buck a prisoner a day.


You may find this NC State document interesting reading. I don't think your neighbors are actually able to hire prisoners for a buck a day.

http://www.doc.state.nc.us/Publications/2010handbook.pdf



> All inmates are expected to work during their stay in prison. The Division of Prisons has a variety of jobs at each prison to which inmates are assigned. Each prison depends on the inmates to operate the kitchen, to provide housekeeping and maintenance, provide labor to maintain state roads and to do the many other tasks that support the prison and other governmental agencies.
> Each inmate who works receives time credit reductions from his or her sentence. They also receive an incentive wage in the amount of $.40, $.70, or $1 per day, depending on the job they hold. Inmates working in Correction Enterprises prison industries can earn up to $3 a day.


The section above does not pertain to those working for private companies.


> Inmates working in the Prison Industry Enhancement (PIE) program can earn a wage comparable to the prevailing wage in the local economy while working at a manufacturing operation inside the prison walls. Requiring inmates to work is an important part of prison life. It is an effort to teach good work habits and encourage inmates to work when they return to society.
> 
> 
> Work Release – Work release is a program that allows selected minimum custody level III inmates the privilege of having a job in the community while being in prison and to prepare them for their release from prison. Inmates on work release leave the prison during the day and return to the prison after their workday is over. _*Inmates on work release earn at least minimum wage *_and from this wage they must pay a portion of the cost of being in prison.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

hmm, didn't know that, two operations had told me they were getting them for nothing. if Im not going to beat min wage, whats the point in not hiring immigrants?


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Each inmate who works receives time credit reductions from his or 
her sentence. They also receive an incentive wage in the amount 
of $.40, $.70, or $1 per day, depending on the job they hold. Inmates working in Correction Enterprises prison industries can earn 
up to $3 a day

I also see the PIE thing, not sure which one of those really applies, or how.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

WillT said:


> If your talking about work release they get around 3 dollar an hour in NC. You also get some very nice tax breaks for taking part in the program.
> 
> The prisoners really want these jobs and its a one time deal, if they screw up they don't get another chance at work release. So they tend not to screw up.


Yes, I had heard they dont want to screw them up also, and tend to do pretty well


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## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

Must be George Bushes fault.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

actually it's romney's and the current bunch. They're driving up labor costs


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Aw, Dixie I worked you like a prisoner for a few days and the recidivism rate with you is 0. I reckon I worked you too hard with commercial beekeeping those few days, you did not come back.:lookout: ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page. I have worked ex-cons from the federal system a time or two. They just want a paying job and a chance to make something of themselves. What happens is since eveyone is scared to hire them, they end up back in trouble because they could not adapt and make a meaniful living. Now having said that, you have to pick and choose who you hire regardless if they have been incarcerated or not. There are just as many bad apples out there in the world as there are behind bars. TED


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

My experience with working inmates is not as the owner. but my employer uses them from time to time.
1. we are not responsible for them. they are supervised by guards.
2. they are assigned their work by the guards. the work we want done is requested by official means, all the paper work etc.
3. I don't think they are allowed or required to do anything that they could get harmed doing. beekeeping included. As one example inmates will spend all day racking up piles of litter and leaves but cannot be expected to burn it. they might get hurt int eh process of setting the fire.
4. the inmates are not allowed to talk to us. If we want them to do something specific we talk to the guards not the inmates.
5. They are good for nothing but pure mindless muscle work. if it requires any sort of care at all you don't want to use them. They would just as soon break a hive box than carry it and once they figure out they don't have to carry the busted ones. they will all be busted. And what are you going to do? have them arrested?
6. never leave anything of value in sight. 9 out of 10 will never be a problem but their is always that number 10. and if he doesn't take it then he will be back later to get it. or his friends will be along shortly. If possible allow them to see only the bee yard and make every indication bee yards are completely worthless.
7. they are not getting paid so don't expect much in the way of work.
8. nothing is free. if you can't afford to hire labor. you can't afford inmates. Nothing is free and you will pay one way or the other.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Aw, Dixie I worked you like a prisoner for a few days and the recidivism rate with you is 0. I reckon I worked you too hard with commercial beekeeping those few days, you did not come back....<snip>...TED


He ain't kiddin', guys. he worked me hard those 3 days but i learned a lot and Ted's hospitality is all southern. I'm ready again when you are, Ted - if I can tear away from all the work up here. -Js


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## cryptobrian (Jan 22, 2012)

As a young man, I worked at a garden center for a while. Each spring we'd have tractor trailers loaded with everything from mulch to flats of flowers and vegetables arriving. All had to be unloaded by hand. We'd bring in boys from a youth correctional camp to assist. It was cheap labor and these boys had incentive and opportunity to turn their lives around. They were always respecting, well mannered, and very hard working. Never any trouble. So perhaps something along these lines is a fine compromise, maybe not as cheap but also not a full-blown chain gang.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Wow, no wonder they are in prison up North. They can run tractors and equipment in Florida with little direction. There are few mindless idiots down here.
We live in the center of several state and federal prisons so we see them every day. FDACS has beekeeping training programs starting in several of the Florida prisons starting with youth. We moved 6 state hives to Lancaster last week. We used to just manage hives on the prison farms for pollination. Now we teach a skill set.


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## Bradley_Bee (May 21, 2008)

I'm a Correctional Officer at a state prison, maybe I'm biased , but the last thing I would do is use Inmates for anything . For one , you will always get the lower level Inmates and that's fine but that doesn't always mean that they are coming off a long term. Most of them are short timers and youngsters who don't give a ****. Violent crime or not, your more likely to be dealing with thieves and sociopaths. Also, just because they weren't convicted of a violent crime doesn't mean they haven't done one. A lot of Inmates will tell you how much they didn't get caught doing. We just paroled a guy off of our Minimum yard who went out and killed two people last week. The worst thing you can do is get a group of Inmates together working at low wages . You may have one guy who's generally interested and wanting to work, the rest , are just there to kill time and won't care about your equipment, bees , or business. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about giving people another chance , and seeing people turn their lives around , but out here in Ca I'm being realistic. I see them head out and come back way to often. They don't want the work, they want to drain the state of money, do drugs , and hang out with their homies. But hey, maybe inmates aren't the same in other states


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

> There are few mindless idiots down here.


 http://www2.tbo.com/list/breaking-news/


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> Wow, no wonder they are in prison up North. They can run tractors and equipment in Florida with little direction. There are few mindless idiots down here.
> We live in the center of several state and federal prisons so we see them every day. FDACS has beekeeping training programs starting in several of the Florida prisons starting with youth. We moved 6 state hives to Lancaster last week. We used to just manage hives on the prison farms for pollination. Now we teach a skill set.


Id like to see or hear details of that!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Skinner Apiaries said:


> Id like to see or hear details of that!


From the Gainesville Sun, in Florida:









Inmates at the Department of Corrections' Reception and Medical Center participate in a beekeeping demonstration to illustrate a new program Tuesday. The beekeeping program is an inmate re-entry program in conjunction with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. After an inmate completes the program and is released, an immediate job prospect with a commercial beekeeper is available.



> On Tuesday morning, the inmates all got nearly perfect scores on a beekeeping test that officials said was essentially identical to the final exam given in a for-credit beekeeping course at the University of Florida.Following their test, the inmates demonstrated their skills to a crowd that included an international consultant, one of the largest beekeepers in the nation and some of the top insect specialists in Florida.
> In return for their willingness to learn and apply their knowledge, each of the inmates has been promised an opportunity to try out for a job with David Mendes, the largest beekeeper in Florida, who owns more than 15,000 hives. Mendes, of Fort Myers, is also president of the American Beekeeping Federation.


The complete article is here:
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20110817/ARTICLES/110819551


And a press release from the State of Florida about the program:
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/secretary/press/2011/08-15RMCBeekeeping.html


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Interesting thought, given that around 90% of crimes are commited by someone that knows you, I personaly would avoid it. You have no control over which ones visit, and which ones are actually eyeing you when they get out. Yes I know the majority of them are great, and trying to get better..... But are you willing to risk everything for that cheap labor??? your odds of haveing an issue rises every time one is around eyeing what you own.


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

Aside from the safety concerns, what about ethics and sustainability?

Ethics - Is this a fair wage? Is it slave labor, or some variation thereof?

Sustainability - Can your apiary be reliably grown using this unreliable labor source? What happens if it disappears?


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

I was mostly looking to have them harvest produce. An important part of my business model is using my bees in my own pollination. But the idea of getting robbed is basically the what if. And if the minimum wage thing is true, whats to keep me from getting legit labor? And as to ethics, there are none. Americans are lazy. very very lazy. The work ethic of the last generation is three times my own. I work harder than paid help, and I always make that a point. My point being, if Im going to get feet dragging labor prisoners getting paid canteen money is OK with me. As far as illegals, legals, etc; I find that to have labor on scale with these people require housing. And outsourcing as it were, may need to be a real leap, like those boer south africans I read about. I'm not against any ideas left right or sideways, but labor is labor. What I need next is really a queen catching crew. I've got a great apprentice that would make a scary crew leader lol.


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## WillT (Jan 20, 2012)

Paul,

I think they give you a nice tax break to hire ex felons or work release. That said they do the same thing if you hire veterans.
http://www.ncesc1.com/business/savemoney/wotc.asp


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## Tina 2Bees (Feb 13, 2010)

Last summer we had inmates work in the honey house. They were from a women's correctional facility about 80 miles away, and it is a low security facility. They had a guard on duty at all times. Our experience was very positive. They were all happy to be "out" and actually working "out" is only granted to those inmates who were at the end of their sentence and didn't want to screw up to ruin their chances of parole. They worked hard, and for the most part took pride in doing a good job. They showed up on time in the morning, and were never hung over. 
There were some rules that we had to hold up on our end too, but they were minimal and mostly based on common sense, ie no phone calls. 

After what I have seen and worked with, it seems like a good thing, and worth checking into at least. But, that said, we were dealing with minimum security and no violent criminals.


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