# any chance of a few frames/package free in Wisconsin?



## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi all,

I'm looking to start a hive this spring (or 2-3). I'm looking to do this on the cheap, as my wife is humoring me on the whole idea of keeping a million stinging insects for "fun", but barely--the cheaper I can do this, the easier my life will be. She's been great so far, but I've acquired a LOT of hobbies in my life, and my freedom to pursue these things relates directly to initial cost--once I've wintered a few hives and proven I can keep them, without them attacking everyone, my cash flow is less of an issue but this is a "pilot" venture.....

I am getting some old hives from Freecycle, a widow who's husband used to keep bees. With luck, I'll also locate a few other things, like a suit, and a smoker. For bees I'm planning on catching a swarm or setting bait hives, if need be, but in a perfect world, I'd be able to just "get" bees--if anyone in The Madison or Stevens Point area has some extra bees they are willing to part with, and they'd like to help me out, I'd be quite grateful. Also, while cash is an issue, I do brew at home; I can't pay anything, but perhaps I could at least offer a case of beer (I do Belgians, stouts, cream ales, and anything else, except lagers) and a couple bottles of wine, or similar........

*fingers crossed


Thanks,
Mark

[ February 08, 2007, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: markalbob ]


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

You may want to post this in the "Wanted"
section. Perhaps offering to trade some
labor would be an option?? Most beeks have
plenty of sweat to share and may be willing
to trade some hard labor for bees. In addition
you'll absorb some knowledge in the process.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Welcome to Beescource markalbob! There are probably some former beekeepers who would like to get out of the "business" in the near future in "our" area because of mites and other financial reasons. I am NOT a BEER drinker so I am not much help there. Also, I could probably learn from you about going the CHEAPEST route. One final note. Sometimes, "keeping a MILLION stinging insects", for fun is the best hobby you can do!. A MILLION BEES is about 10 colonies. I hope I'am right about that. GOOD luck!!


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Sundance, Great suggestion. For a person that was very interested...I would trade labor for bees, especially a youngster that wanted to get started.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

I would suggest saving the money to acquire everything you need before you start keeping bees. A hobbie like any business will have the most success with a plan. When a business or in this case a hobie is started with very little or no money available then how will the things be bought that you need that you did not expect to buy? When you say "once I've wintered a few hives and proven I can keep them, without them attacking everyone, my cash flow is less of an issue" what does that mean? The reason I ask is it seems like every time I turn around I am dumping unexpected money into my bees, I just want you to be aware of these things prior to jumping off of a cliff and then turning around to see if the parachute is on your back.

That aside I would suggest you do what ever it takes to join us as beekeepers because it is extremely fun!


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Getting started beekeeping creates a blackhole for money. The list of needs is endless.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

A better option might be to catch one or two swarms. Ask for information on doing this and maybe search the backpages.

Darrel Jones


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Just getting started with one hive would cost about $100.00, minimum; even if you could cut corners here and there. That involves a whole year of keeping the bees; spring to spring and 100% survival of your colony.


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## flathead (Nov 1, 2006)

I would also go around to the local hardware stores and other places where wasp spray is sold.

Leave your name and number with them and that inceases your chances for a swarm or two.

We have a local university that tracks beekeepers willing to remove bees and provides the info on their website.

If you can find some local(close to you)beekeepers that do removals, call them and ask that they give you a call when they have a swarm they can't get to.

Welcome and good hunting.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Oldbee,

Hope you're right--maybe I'll luck out yet. Otherwise, my options are swarm catching, bait hives, and possibly trying to locate ferals someplace where I can try trapping them out. 

To the others, it's not a matter of my not having money, or not having a plan. I am a PhD Biologist, with a moderately well-paying job, so I eat, have a relatively nice house, take vacations, etc. The issue is basically that my wife isn't enthused about me deciding to wrangle stinging insects for a hobby. She'll be less enthused if I'm looking to spend $300 right off the bat. Think of it as minimizing costs where applicable--if I could get free bees, that's $60 per hive saved right there. I could make hives from cardboard to save money, but something like that is just plain stupid--the bees would die so there'd be no real savings. I'm looking to save money where practical, not to "not spend a dime" or "toss some bees over here and see how they do." Just to keep my startup out of the stratosphere.

Thanks everyone,
Mark


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## kensfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Since you're a Biologist.. maybe talk w/ a CPA to see how you could make most of the expenses tax deductable.. start your own home research lab. 

Educate on the products & benefits of having bee's to help convince the Mrs. 

Get in contact w/ your local beekeepers association.. there might be someone willing to make up a nuke for you this spring.. especially if you offer free "Labour & Home brew" for trade. Having a local beek to talk & learn from is always a big plus. Best of luck w/ catching a swarm.. this will be my first year trying to catch swarms too!


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

" She'll be less enthused if I'm looking to spend $300 right off the bat. Think of it as minimizing costs where applicable--if I could get free "

most Beekeepers had rather give you their wife than their bees  

I have thought of a lot more to say on this subject but this is not tailgater


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

lol--thanks for the advice, it is an excellent idea but I'm a biologist at work, and as a hobby at home. A research lab-type endeavor would add costs, and probably kill much of the fun for me.

To me, my hobbies are just that--as an example I love to fish. The idea of being a guide always sounded fun, but my hunch was, if I HAD to get out on the water by 6, rain or shine, when I was booked, and if every day NOT fishing was $$ lost, and it became a business and I had to do it when others wanted it instead of when I wanted, it would lose it's fun very quickly. 

And as far as "educating" my wife, the education will be that
1. Bees won't go after our kids, or even me, for that matter, other than a handful of stings when I'm molesting the hive.
2. It's not a totally time- and labor-intensive hobby with only a couple hives
3. Fresh honey and mead from fresh honey = GOOD

As far as clubs, ironically, I'm in part of Wisconsin where the nearest club I've located thus far is over an hour away. I don't think anywhere else in the state can say that, and yet my area is really, really agricultural. Go figure.

Perhaps swarms it is. On the plus, this might have beneficial implications for varroa......


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

While stings to others may be rare, they do happen. I've been keeping bees for over six years and go to great lengths to insure that I have gentle bees. Now contrast this with your approach of getting "free" bees of unknown genetic heritage, no experience, and placing them in your yard with kids and a wife that is mildly on board...I see some basic problems with your plan. 

Despite my efforts and experience, last year for no apparent reason, my 4 year old son was stung while walking about 40 ft from the hives. I had not been in the hives in few days and there were no other obvious factors involved. Fortunately my wife is very supportive with my beekeeping hobby or there may have been some "free" bees in southeast Virginia last spring. All I'm saying is that you better drop the idea that with bees in the yard there is the POSSIBILITY of a sting and plan accordingly.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Astro,

Granted. Bees would not be in our yard if their parentage was Ghandi X Theresa--we only have a 0.25-acre lot. However, they will be at a farm nearby. I expect personally to get a few stings--from what I've read, "it happens". However, my coming home looking like a prizefighter, or the bees going after kids when they were at the farm walking by the cows 100 yards away, would be issues. I'm new, and my questions undoubtedly show it, but I'm not "careless" and I feel quite confident that I simply do not have the expertise to deal with bees in the 'burbs and avoid major legal issues....so the biggest issue is I'm looking to avoid the 

"Honey, here's a venture you think sounds crazy as h#ll to begin with, so, umm, I'm gonna go out and spend 300 bucks on it too."

And asking for frames was in no small part based upon the "how hot might ferals be for someone who has never done this" questioon, but I'll do ferals at this point and at least try once, before I shell out the cash. I tried offering a beer swap, but apparently WI has a shortage of beekeeping alcoholics....


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Mark:

Since you're a PhD Biologist from the Madison, WI, area, I'm assuming you have some connections to the U of Wisconsin. Try contacting the Entomology Department, tell them you're interested in starting a hive (or two). If they're still running some hives, they may be able and willing to give you a "split" or two.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

With abundant income, then by all means
purchase your first bees from known stock
that is gentile. And get new equipment.
Your first crop or two of honey will both
offset the cash layout and put large smiles
on your faces.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Didn't know that you were planning to have them at a farm. Stings should be a non-issue. Good luck with your endeavor.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Thanks for all the input. Cash isn't a problem, but htis is how I do things as I start out--I'm also getting a 15-lb CO2 tank for kegging beer free off Craigslist rather than spending $65 or more to buy a new one.....I don't spend if I don't have to. If I have a "wild" swarm and they're unpleasant, next year I would re-queen, also--I'd have one less-than-fun season with them (less, if they were too hot) then they'd have the chance to mellow out. But 2 queens, picked up from a semi-local supplier or ordered, would be like 20-30 dollars, versus $120 for 2 packages. 

Maybe part of why we have cash to go to Mexico, etc. is I try to minimize cost in my hobbies. If I can't do it "right" on the cheap I won't, and I'll spend the money, but I'm not convinced catching a swarm is "wrong" enough to not do it. (As an example, it'd be REALLY cheap to try catching swarms and introducing them to our siding, or a neighboring abandoned fars's, or a large pile of cinderblocks, but that's impractical regardless of savings. Swarm-catching doesn't seem anywhere near as outlandish, so that I'm fine with. If it was just as dumb, like catching swarms near SD where they may be africanized, I wouldn't do that either).

And Keick, I'll bear that in mind--I actually got my degree in Milwaukee, and I'm a molecular/cell biologist, so my connections are all miles from the entomology dept., but it's a place to sniff around. I believe they have some hives here on campus yet.

Mark


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

For catching swarms, talk to a bunch of small business exterminators...the guys that most clueless people call when they got bugs.

Good luck on the cheap! That's what I've done, but I also had to make sure that my total costs at any time were below the $100 mark to get it by the capital expense department...I mean my wife!!! Three purchases of $100 seems smaller than $300  

I've made most of my woodenware, but it still adds up with the bee veils, smokers, extractor, mead making equipment (all essentials of course









-rick


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I earned a few hundred last year removing bees from homes and businesses. More than enough to buy my equipment. Let the locals like Bee clubs, fire dept., police, 911, and ESPECIALLY exterminating companies that you will remove colonys from structures. Should net you 10 to 30 hives the first year, plus 200 to 400 per removal, if you can find a local beek to walk you through the procedure.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

already got meadmaking equipment. In fact, just scored a free 15-lb CO2 tank for kegging from a paintballer.......

*does happy dance


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

already got meadmaking equipment. In fact, just scored a free 15-lb CO2 tank for kegging from a paintballer.......

*does happy dance


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

markalbob. Though my family had bees 45 years ago I only have 3 colonies now so I am a hobbyist also. You may have done this already but check out www.wihoney.com [Wisc. Honey Producers Assoc.]. There are district spring meetings coming up in Feb.- March. You don't have to be a member [$25.00]  or a "producer" to attend meetings. One is in Milton, about 40 minutes south of Madison, March 3rd. In the spring when the farmers markets start up you could stop and chat with the beekeepers who are selling their wares; go early! I have not tried to trap or catch a swarm myself; sounds like fun and economical! I may have to buy  a package or two this spring. Good luck.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Hey oldbee, thanks for the tip--Milton is fairly close--I'm in Belleville, so it's even closer.

And nothing wrong with buying packages; if I had a couple hives up and running and was certain this was going to be a hobby that "took", i wouldn't bat an eye. This is early, starting up I'm not looking to have my wallet consumed until the rest of me is......


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## Kelbee (Jan 3, 2006)

Markalbob,
Did you mention if you're handy with tools? If so and you have the time, access to a woodshop and some scrap lumber there's not much you can't make yourself for near free. Check out the bee equipment plans on this site.
If you go with small cell comb on foundationless frames you won't need foundation and you may be able to get by without having to buy/use chemicals.
Crush and strain extraction costs almost nothing.
I'd at least buy a veil, smoker, and hive tool but a true minimalist could likely rig up something that would work.


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## longarm (Apr 21, 2006)

Well I am a target shooter.. suppose I should place an ad asking for free match pistols?
Of course I would like to have a fine late 60's muscle car too.. maybe you will give me yours?

Markalbob: what is it you are OFFERING the beekeeping community? That seems like the right place to start to me.

My point is that for most I know keeping bees is a labor of love, money, time, materials, and effort.

[ February 09, 2007, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: longarm ]


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Well said longarm..... Everyone wants to
do this inexpensively, and I guess I would
like freebies too.

As my handle says, I will trade and work for
bees and equipment. At least twice I've had
equipment given to me without me asking at
all. One was a lurker who sent me a nice ol'
Woodman honey pump, asking nothing, blew me
away. I sent him cash anyway to more than 
cover his expense.

There are so many extraordinary people out
there......


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Scoring a free-bee, a bargain at twice the price at someone else's expense....go figure


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Mark, Here's one a gentleman gave me. I'm sure you can find a couple likewise.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/Temp/bees070.jpg

Just take your chainsaw and go get them.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

markalbob. There is a beekeeper whose address is Belleville, WI.!! Maybe you know this already. I will "try" to send the info to your P.M. mail anyway. He sells honey at the South Park sreet market. It opens much later in the spring though.


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

That's a cool pic iddee, but its a bummer that you had you're shirt on for this one.







You must've loaded that one with a tractor.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

How come almost everyone here thinks bees are so beneficial to us and that more people should start keeping them ? Then how come when someone wants to get some then nobody wants to help out ?  I have a bunch of used equipment that I would like to give to a new home and I would gladly set up a nuc for this gentleman with a queen. I have a few hives and to make one wouldn't take much from them. I mean realisticly speaking, four frames. One frame per hive. I am trying hard to promote beekeeping, and not to make it hard for the beginners. I think its very important to get more people involved in beekeeping. On a different note, when all of you started out you didn't want to spend tons of money either. I know I didn't. I learned a lot and there's still so much left that I don't have a clue about. That is what makes it so fun I guess  The one thing that I would like to see is that the new person make an honest effort to make a go of it, and make it work. I would also like to see it promoted by that individual too. I want you to know that I'm not picking on anyone in particular, that this is a generalization


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

That's my helper, Wade....Not me. I took the photo.
No, We loaded it by hand. That's the point, free bees normally are anything BUT free.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

Just saw the pics iddee, nice.... I have two people that have bee trees and want me to take them down. It will be interesting.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Here is the inside line Markalbob. You decide to possibly take up beekeeping and buy a book to read about it $20. Then you jump off the cliff and decide to start up a couple of hives(hive bodies, supers, frames, bottom boards, inner & outer covers)$400, hive tool $10, frame grip $6, hat and veil $25, smoker $30, 2 feeders $30, gallon of paint $10 2 packages of bees $160. Then you sell it to your wife that it is a total of $691. So you hive the packages and then start feeding them sugar at about $5-$10 per week for a few weeks, summer ends and now you find that even though you want to go small cell a mite drop count shows 50 mites in 15 minuites so you decide if you don't treat you won't have any bees Apistan $29. One hive made you one super of surplus honey yahoo-oh yeah, whoops the other did not make a super of honey. Lift the surplus from the one and give it to the other, no honey this year honey, you tell your wife. So then honey stores did not make it through the winter and you have to start feeding again in January at $5 per week. Then you read up and find it may be a good idea to give the bees pollen patties to help make them healty $25. lets throw in another $100 for gas, and this and that for the year. If your lucky you make it through the winter with one hive, really lucky both. So that one year later your wife is now looking at you because you spent $925 on beekeeping in the past 12 months and the only honey you have is the honey you bought from the beekeeper at the farmers market for $6 so that you could taste that pure golden sweetness until you get some of your own.

You just read my first year of beekeeping with my first two hives. So if you are able to do it for half of that you will still spend $462.50, thats still $162.50 more than you want to spend. I am not trying to discourage you just give you realistic figures. My guess is you will spend $300 even if someone gives you frames and bees. I left out the part where I bought 13 hives from other people also in my first year bringing my total spending over $3000.00 by the time I got a used extractor, bottles, capping knife and more. It was worth every penny and I would do it again. I would recommend beekeeping to anybody. A bad thing for beekeeping would be for one to take up the hobie with unrealistic expectations and fail at it, spreading the word of how horrible beekeeping is. Good Luck! Hope this helps.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Focus-on-Bees. OH BOY! Guilt! Guilt!! Guilt!! Maybe later this spring if I have any bees left after this three weeks of -10 to 10 degree weather I may have some frames to spare from my "whole" two [2] colonies.  . By the way, Wausau isn't too far from Stevens Point.


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Ruben, the secret to beekeeping on a budget is after the first year when you see what it costs, throw your pencil away.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

>Ruben, the secret to beekeeping on a budget is after the first year when you see what it costs, throw your pencil away.


Good plan, I figure my way to re coupe my costs from last year is to add an additional 15 or 20 hives this year


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Honeyman said:
------------------------------------------------
"most Beekeepers had rather give you their wife than their bees"
------------------------------------------------

So true, So true! By the way, I'm planning to expand my operation this year. I would like to trade for bees as well. I have 29yo wife for trade. 5'3" blond, very loyal, nice body, easy on the eyes. Will trade for 4 nucs or 2 established hives, price negotiable 

OK I gotta go, if she reads this I'm a dead man.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Focus, I don't think we are being unkind by not jumping up to offer free bees. Every year we have people buy bees from us. A few of them buy bees EVERY year. Over the years I cannot count how many had the bees die on them and decided it was just too hard to keep them alive, it was cheaper to let us do the work and buy their honey from us. We try to tell them about the committment of time, effort and money in beekeeping but so many have a rosy picture in their heads that is very hard to dislodge. Many remember their grandfather with his bees and it didn't seem like HE worked that hard. I suspect most beekeeps on this board that have been at it awhile can tell the same story. 
Additionally, some that think they want to keep bees don't even bother buying a book or visiting their library to read up on the subject. They haven't a clue what they are in for. I don't even want to SELL some of these folks bees, I am so sure they will be uncared for, probably dead or gone by fall let alone make it through winter. 
I always hope that some of those that are on a "whim" will be discouraged by the price. If they do buy, perhaps the money spent might be an incentive to take a little better care of their new bees; that they will value them more because they aren't free. 
Markalbob, keeping with your fishing analogy; just as you don't go fishing for the fish, beekeeping hobbyists don't keep bees for the honey, They do it for their love of beekeeping. The honey is a nice added benefit. Reread Ruben's post, lol. You can buy a LOT of honey for $600+. He might like honey but he really LOVES his bees.
There are some very good suggestions on how to acquire some "free" bees. I think the best have been those suggesting contacting other beekeeps and offering to help in exchange for bees. This would not only give the end result but might also give you some insight on what beekeeping entails and if it is for you. An ongoing relationship with an experienced beekeep, even after acquiring your bees, is probably the best investment you can make in this new hobby.
Sheri


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Interesting thread.

I have given colonies to university students for needed studies, a half way house in New York working with people trying to get their lives back in order, to at least one family that I knew was in bad financial shape. I have also given queens away for customers that waited patiently for an order that was not filled as promised, I did not bill one customer for queens last year due to his willingness to delay an earlier order giving me time to fill other orders.

I think the spirit in beekeepeing to help others is seen all the time. I am kind of split in my willingness to help another who wants a hand-out for the mere fact of being cheap, or having a problem convincing the wife, of "yet another" hobby.

I think the amount of giving has limits. I reserve giving to those who may really need it. For those who without such help, may not be able to keep bees or be able to do it alone, without such generousity. Seems like asking for "free" to keep it "cheap" to see if it works, to keep the spouse happy, is off the norm.

Kudos to those who want to help. I hope you consider other MUCH MORE deserving people who could benefit from a hand-out.

I'll be talking to the wife this weekend. I've been meaning to build a poker room, perhaps build a meadery, would love to get into boating, and a few other hobbies. Till now, money, time, and perhaps even getting a raised eyebrow from the wife has held me back. Please consider any requests coming from me. They will be greatly appreciated. I know it will keep the wife happy. Not having to spend money on my next hobby might actually allow me to give another hive to a needy person. One that actually would benefit from it.......


Indiana, send me a pic...


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

It's been posted on here again and again, the best way to start beekeeping is to study it for a year first. That gives you the time to acquire the equipment necessary as well as the basic knowledge. It also gives you time to determine if it is right for you.

I am not opposed to giving a person a leg up, but I am opposed to giving a handout to a person that is not willing to invest of their own. It is going to take an investment to make a proper environment for the bees. An investment of time, labor, and money by someone, and if you have your own why are you hanging on the shirttails of others? That's just not right.

Bob has a PHD. He has proven that he can be paper trained. He needs to learn all that he can about bees and their maintenance first.

Bob is a professor at a university? He has a good income. Instead of taking lavishly expensive vacations he could at least trim a day or two off and buy the tools and equipment he will need for his "experimental hobby".

There is nothing wrong with recycling until you end up living in a dump. Just don't ask for others to give up what they work for so you can satisfy a passing whim. If you are not willing to make the sacrifice why should anyone else?

My departed mother would have said, "Neither a borrower, lender or beggar be!", followed by "God helps them that helps themselves".


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

If your going to have a hobby it might as well make you some money, you might not always turn a profit but you will see some payback, unlike fast boats or snowmobiles. You can also use your honey for making Mead, when your wife sees some cash come back when you sell your surplus honey she will lighten up. Who knows she might take an interest they are many very good women beekeepers some of the leading researchers are women. I am lucky to have married a good old fashion farm girl, she is a big help when I need to spot and elusive queen.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

My head is spinning....

How about this for a The Apprentice" episode. Two teams are asked to visit various websites, and with the best sob story they can come up with, score as much free stuff as possible. Whoever has the most at the end of the week, wins.

Or a college study paper based on gauging the willingness of individuals to give to strangers they do not know, through website requests. 

I now wonder if just visiting websites, and I mean thousands of them, and having some type story, working on others willingness to give charity...what kind of returns could you be looking at? Could I pay my way through college, (or my poor very needy kids)? Get a Phd? Bulk up my retirement account?

I guess they say there is a sucker born every day. So it should be rewarding and pay for your time. I remember a guy who asked for some small amount of money years ago to pay for his college. He published his sob-story of needing help pay his way in some major papers. I think he asked for something like 25 cents from each reader. The response was great. He paid his way through college with the hundreds of thousands who sent him money. Many, sending much more than the requested 25 cents. 

Boy, this could open up doors for me I never even considered.

How about this,....For every dollar sent, I will remain off beesource for two minutes. Twenty dollars is worth an hour. I benefit, you benefit, everyone benefits. We are all happy. Best money spent. And it goes for a good cause....


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## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

If you guys are in the giving mood I've got a list of things I'm looking for. If I could get it for free I could go back to 40 hour work weeks. 

Hey Bjorn, about those 20 nucs..... 

[ February 10, 2007, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Yuleluder ]


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Yuleluder,
Make it easy! I take automatic billing with credit card orders...  I can bill daily weekly, or monthly. I'm easy to work with.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

[ February 10, 2007, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: coyote ]


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

For you coyote, I'll even allow you to block off the time frames you desire. Talk about added value!

M. Thomas 696 Potts Hill Road, Lewisberry, Pa. 17339

Understanding your market. One of the keys to a successful business....


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

BjornBee, here you go, let me know if you're interested 


pic of wife


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

[ February 10, 2007, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: coyote ]


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Am I on Candid Camera?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

indiana, And here all these years since "Jack & Diane", I thought girls your way were hot....  

Coyote, Edit>>>Although my unedited comment was not directed towards Coyote, without his comments, (previously deleted by himself), my comments seem more pointless than they normaly are. So the original comment has been deleted to keep up with the times.>>> 

George, just what exact timeframe were you born? Candid camera? Boy that was long time ago. Did they even have television in maine back then. Or did you read about it somewhere?

[ February 10, 2007, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]


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## Kelbee (Jan 3, 2006)

Back on topic, getting the wife involved can help a lot in supporting your hobby. My wife is an artist and showed virtually no interest in my bees until I gave her about 50 pounds of my first year honey crop to sell at the farmers' market alongside her art. She became excited when she sold all she had in just a few hours, with many customers returning in following weeks for more which she didn't have. Now she's looking forward to a (hopefully) larger crop this year. Now she's making some pottery honey pots to sell alongside the honey. I bought her a beesuit and now she's excited to help me work the bees this year. An extra set of eyes and hands will be nice. As for spending money, before long she'll probably be looking through bee catalogs buying stuff SHE wants.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>I never underestimate the power I have to tick some people off.

It appears it's directly proportional to your ability to get ticked off Bjorn, which is phenomenal..

>just what exact timeframe were you born?

Between 2:10 pm and 2:15 pm. Not exactly sure. My sister who is an astrologer figures it had to be closer to 2:15 pm judging from the timing of some particularly significant events in my life.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Well George, my stress test last friday did not indicate any problems. Had the old heart rate up to above 180. I am sure thats nowhere close to past heart rates achieved during tailgater sessions.  

On Monday I go in for an Echo.....echo....echo-something.

I've tried to stay off tailgater, but was recently sucked into a followup reply that was forced upon me by a moderator who decided to take the thread down to tailgater. And who can resist pounding on Jim!

I know this is off topic. So was Coyote's comment deleted for the sole purpose of introducing a "delete me" thread. I hope not. The last poor sap who tried that got smacked around pretty hard...  

What was the point of this thread?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

And George...Thanks for the compliment. I am Phenomenal....


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

"Coyote, Edit>>>Although my unedited comment was not directed towards Coyote, without his comments, (previously deleted by himself), my comments seem more pointless than they normaly are. So the original comment has been deleted to keep up with the times.>>>"

Yeah, well I _had_ to delete comments because your comments could have been misinterpreted by someone reading the comments that I didn't reply to such that they might get the impression I actually _like_ you, and neither of us want that.

Anyway, back to the deleted comments.... are you going to have queens this year to sell?

And to get back on track...
There's a fellow here who wants to start keeping bees. He called and wanted to know if I could help him get started, and offered to trade whatever I thought was fair in terms of his skills for my bees and equipment. He's serious about the bees, and I know that in a few years he'll be a better beek than I am. I'm looking forward to getting him started. There's always a way to get started with little cash, but there's no free lunch. 

There's a trade out there for markalbob, but realistically it's gonna take more than a case of beer.

[ February 10, 2007, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: coyote ]


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

Sheri I have to agree with you on your comments. Obviously you have dealt with this before. This was not said to irritate people but to see more or less what generosity is out there. Now I understand that some people that commented on my posting have seemed not to have read it thoroughly. I stated that I would want that person to make an honest effort to keep the bees. In other words that means they have to do the best they can to help them survive. It is possible to do it cheaply but they have to spend money on sooner or later on different items. I guess where I'm coming from, it has to be a serious venture and not just a whim or short lived hobby. Under those circumstances I would donate bees. How I would determine that, I don't know yet.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Coyote, yes.

[ February 11, 2007, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Well George, my stress test last friday did not indicate any problems.

Glad to hear it!

>I've tried to stay off tailgater, but was recently sucked into a followup reply

Yes, I think that was a carefully crafted scheme to sucker you back into Tailgator... First posting a thread in a bee forum that was bound to get moved, then baiting it with that Faux News comment... set the hook, and reel you right into Tailgator! Beautiful! Really Bjorn, it was for your own good...









>And who can resist pounding on Jim!

Who in deed..

>I know this is off topic.

This thread seems to be off topic. Several times I've sat down to type and just... don't know what to say.


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

"indiana, And here all these years since "Jack & Diane", I thought girls your way were hot...."

What! You didn't think she was hot? Well I did...


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

That was a very nice reply Kelbee; encouraging. WOW! sometimes these posts "acquire a life of their own". Sorry, markalbob. I guess the economics of beekeeping is "almost" like politics [yuk], and religion,[who knows].  Since this post was started by a fellow Wisconsinite I couldn't help but post another reply. Kelbee; this was my first year, 06, to have some "surplus" honey so I asked a few vendors about how to get involved in the farmer's market this year; nice chats. Getting back to Ruben's [somewhat exaggerated, Reg.$6.00 frame lifters]. I checked out the application for the '07 farmer's market and it is $125.00 for six Saturdays and $400.00 for the season; May to Oct. 31.; THE FEE. I WAS SHOCKED! That is not even on the capitol square which may be 5 to $600.00. for the season [a 1 to 3 year waiting time]. I know there are other avenues for selling honey that I have not fully researched but this demonstrates the "economics of beekeeping" as far as the hobbyist or sideliner recouping their expenses. Maybe just one hive is enough. I will not be "buying" any packages this spring. Just building up the bees that I have left.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Focus, you said >>>it has to be .... not just a whim or short lived hobby. .... How I would determine that, I don't know yet.<<<
That is the problem, no? If a wannabe beek called and offered to work off the price of his bees, I think that would be a good start. Or if he/she offered a trade, as Markalbob did, but perhaps more in keeping with the value of the goods he was interested in, one might be more willing to help. We have in the past, traded bees for labor and other items.
But as you say, why donate to a perhaps quick passing fancy. I understand these whims as I am guilty of indulging in some myself. I have several unfinished projects and abandoned hobbies myself around here. I would hate to see this place if cost was not an issue.  
Sheri


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

<<why donate to a perhaps quick passing fancy. I understand these whims as I am guilty of indulging in some myself. I have several unfinished projects and abandoned hobbies myself around here. I would hate to see this place if cost was not an issue.>>
I hear you there Sheri


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Mark, as a recovering WI resident I have a brother in Madison who informs me each year of several swarm in/around the arboretum. If you set swarm traps there (I'm sure they'd be amenable) your chances would be pretty good I'd speculate. Go ahead and spurge the $3.25 for some swarm lure, or use a bit of lemongrass essential oil, and you're a beekeeper!


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Oldbee, Focus, Ben,

Thank you all for the tips. For some of the others (the match pistol guy comes to mind), maybe I wasn't clear in my first thread.

1. I explicitly said I was looking to get in "cheap", realizing more costs would come

2. I also explicitly said I could offer in exchange a case of beer and some wine--if you missed that, no problem, if you don't consider that "worth" a few frames, fine also....I was looking for folks who maybe DID think so though.

3. I did not clearly say, and apparently should have, that I was seeking bees from people with "excess"--not from Dadant, etc. where it's their business venture, but from small-time keepers who might be interested in sharing a few frames to spread the hobby or for the simple reason that they aren't expanding and need to thin the broodnest a bit to avoid a swarm.

4. What do I give in return, several asked. Beer as mentioned as a direct return. This would be low-maint. beekeeping, on a small scale and as a newbie, so also probably several swarms, which as I understand are sorely lacking and quite possibly needed to increase feral genetics. And in time, frames or swarms to others starting out who were in my shoes, as I try to remember where I came from.

Nobody here HAS to help, but I'm a little surprised how many want to crap all over the idea of me asking for help, or of anyone else offering it........kind of shocked and disappointed.

and by the way, to the match pistol guy from Oregon, rest assured if I find a set of pistols, or muscle car, for about $65 (the rough price of a 3-lb swarm), I'll call you right up. 

Again, anyone who would like to help can contact me--I haven't done a huge lack of research on this, I compulsively research. That's why I'm a biologist. I also realize I can swing this "my way", can not if I buy in directly.....if you don't want to help me, don't--I'm quite able to find things on my own. Just surprised how forward some were about letting me know I shouldn't even have the gall to request anything......very impressive.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Oh, oldbee,

One more thing--I'll write back later, but I got your PM.....I'm pretty sure my daughter sold the guy you mentioned girl scout cookies last month, and if he's the guy, I spent about 30 minutes talking to him and his wife during the sale about his dog, how the town's grown, etc. He was a nice guy, and probably one of my best bets then--I was going to bring him a 6-pack anyway with the cookies because he did seem like such a nice guy and we're still just getting to know people here in Belleville.

Mark


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Hi Mark
Don't be put off by us here on this board, we sometimes get carried away and off topic, as you can see. Much of the discussion was not directed at you personally but regressed to generalities and absurdities. 
Most everyone on this board, confronted by a newbee wanting to learn and willing to put in the effort would be happy to help, including John and I up here in Owen. 
A belated welcome to the board.
Sheri


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Markalbob in my opinion what has probably stirred this thread up so much is your first post when read comes across as somebody who would like to get into beekeeping but does not have the money to do so, which is why I suggested you save the money first and put a plan together. Then a later post you say you are a PhD and have plenty of money, a nice house and vacation in Mexico.

It is sort of like if you are in line at Mcdonalds and I guy aproaches you with a scruffy beard and looks hungry and asks if you have a buck to spare for a hamburger. Feeling sorry for him you give him the dollar, he gets a burger and starts to walk out when a buddy of his says how was the vacation last week in Mexico, then you see him walk outside and get in a brand new corvette and drive away.

I realize that you did offer something for a trade but it appeared as though it was all you had to your name to offer and I would have felt guilty taking the beer from you if I had frames to give away. I don't believe you meant it to come across in this way but that was how I took it. So if others took it in the same way then that is why you are catching so much grief over it. If you make a good beer I would suggest finding a local beekeeper and giving him one to try, then tell him if he likes it you will trade him $90 worth for a hive w/bees he might take you up on it. I bought several hives in that price range this year. If I had frames I would trade you as I do enjoy a good beer. Good Luck!


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

my apologies for my lack of clarity, it was never not having the money, it was more an issue of looking to do it n a particular fashion....I never meant to beg bees from anyone looking to sell them, merely asking if anyone wanted to help out who had "spares (admittedly rare now with varroa) to minimize the pain of getting into what seems a fun hobby......


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Bob, congrats on such a controversial post here so early in your beesource career! That alone deserves a free nuc (but not from me buddy so don't get your hopes up!







)

The problem you encountered here relates to a recently stated fact by a very wise poster who said the Beekeeping Gene and the Cheap Gene are closely related. You'll be a long time getting anything free from the cheap likes of us!

Your wife is right to be concerned, you'll soon be hooked like the rest of us and vacations, new cars, food, all these thing will become side trips from your addiction to beekeeping! Good Luck and enjoy the trip!

{Am I on Candid Camera?}

Yes George, since 9:04 a.m. Sept. 11, 2001, just like the rest of us!

[ February 11, 2007, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

>>>vacations.....will become side trips from your addiction to beekeeping<<<
I can vouch for this.
We have been going to Mexico every winter since 1992, but this winter we had to go out and tend the pollination bees in CA. At least CA was a little warmer than WI.
Sheri


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## kensfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

What's in your wallet.. Mexico vacation combined w/ pollination, Wife & kids all stung up & swollen! Probably tax deductable too!!


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

kensfarm, I WISH the Mexico vacation was combined, but it turned into an either/or this year, and the bees won, ha. This is how it starts......
Sheri


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## Joshua2639 (Apr 2, 2006)

????

I posted a few weeks ago asking if anyone could help me with some used equipment for a program I am trying to start up to get kids involved with beekeeping. 

I didnt get a single post, not one. .

I do not have a PhD. I could not afford the community college I was attending, even with the GI BILL. Now I am self-employed and work for my money.

I have only taken two vacations in the last 10 years. One was last year when I took my sister to Indiana to do a campus tour of Notre Dame. We stayed at Potato Creek State Park instead of a hotel ($30 a night for the cabins, pretty nice actually). I also pinch pennies when I can. My honeymoon was at my uncles cabin in the middle of Wisconsin.

Even with my limited funds, and what I believe to be a great cause I wasn't asking for free bees. I was looking for used gloves that have holes in them. Maybe an extra hive tool not getting used, a smoker with a hole in it, veils that need to be sewn up. . I have two veils as of right now. If I have two kids that would like to experience bees, I go with out the veil. So far I have gotten lucky.

So it cracks me up to see that some people say they would help this poor, poor doctor of biology. 

Please do not take this as me being ungrateful. I do not believe anybody owes me anything (unless of course someone does have the free match grade pistol) and I have already received so much help with all of the questions I have asked. I even had a guy offer to give me some of his extra lemon oil and a few chunks of comb to help me catch swarms this year.


P.s. I have a wife too, and yes she does the budget for us as well. Have a good time in Mexico.

Josh


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>I didnt get a single post, not one. .

Ouch.

>So it cracks me up to see that some people say they would help this poor, poor doctor of biology.

Same here. What was your original thread? Build a fire under it. It sounds deserving of consideration.

George-


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## Joshua2639 (Apr 2, 2006)

Thanks George.

Here was my post.

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007591;p=1#000000

I hope that worked, otherwise it is under the heading "I need help with equipment and supplies." in the beekeeping 101.

Josh


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Josh,

despite your abundant attitude, should I actually get any "excess" here I will pm you.....I'd like to see you get your stuff as well, potshots or no.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Originally by Coyote:

"And to get back on track...
There's a fellow here who wants to start keeping bees. He called and wanted to know if I could help him get started, and offered to trade whatever I thought was fair in terms of his skills for my bees and equipment. He's serious about the bees, and I know that in a few years he'll be a better beek than I am. I'm looking forward to getting him started. There's always a way to get started with little cash, but there's no free lunch. 

There's a trade out there for markalbob, but realistically it's gonna take more than a case of beer."

Re-read the post. I didn't offer a case of busch light, picked up on sale. Go out and price a case of guinness, or Delerium Tremens, or Old Peculier, plus 3 or 4 bottles of decent wine. I think you may find it not too far from the cost of the bees. Not that some bothered to DO the math, of course...... 

[ February 15, 2007, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: markalbob ]


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

somebody sezs:
Not that some bothered to DO the math, of course...... 

tecumseh wonders???
and here I though ya' was a biology major???

ya' folks up madison way are quite humorous, I do believe......


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

I was....and a chem minor--show me YOUR math, then.

???
genuinely curious. Are you implying my math is bad? I pay $5-10 per bottle of wine, and 24 bottles of Guinness is at least $20 anyplace i've shopped.....generally more. A Tripel or similar is more expensive still.

Maybe I'm wasting my time; I don't mind people not helping, but I am starting to mind all the helpful folks who want to crap on the idea I'd even dare to ask.....especially when I offered a trade. 

Shame, too, there's lots of info on the board, but this is the first place I've seriously thought of just cancelling a membership entirely at--I've never actually seen a board this "responsive", to put it politely. 

[ February 15, 2007, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: markalbob ]


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

I will show you mine markelbob... if you show me yours.... 

If you take a subject view of utility and value.... then for us non beer drinker a bottle of guinness (which I am told by my beer drinin' friends is quite good) is worth less than a good glass of water. on the other hand when I did drink beer none could qute compare to the original shiner bock...


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Well, Tecumseh, if you don't LIKE beer, then of course it's a bad trade. The hope was I'd find someone who both liked beer and had extra junk laying around.

I've never had shiner yet, but I've seen the bock and theri wheat both have lots of fans.....

and you WERE talking about showing the math, right? 'cause I didn't even do my hair today.....


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Maybe try selling the beer and wine, markalbob, and use the money you get to buy bees.

I think you're running into a number of problems here. First, you are likely to find beekeepers who like beer/wine, you're likely to find some beekeepers willing to make splits or packages, and you might even find a few that overlap.

The problem, though, might be proximity. Paying to ship the beer/wine and paying to ship the bees might amount to about as much as simply buying either locally.

The next problem, I think, is "inclination," for lack of a better term at the tip of my tongue. Some beekeepers will make splits or packages because they're expanding their own operations. Some make nucs and/or packages because they're in business selling bees. Neither one might be inclined to barter for those bees -- the bees are more valuable, in their eyes, than what you're offering.

And those who might be willing to barter, again, are likely to be too far away to make it worthwhile. (The members of this message board are spread far and wide, both geographically and idiologically.  )

How far would you be willing to travel to make such a trade? How much would you be willing to pay for shipping? Would it really be more economical than simply buying a package or two of bees?

I think yet another problem might be "retaliation," again, for a lack of a better term. [Paraphrasing hypothetically, here] "I had to buy my first bees, so I'm not giving any away to a guy who could buy his own!" I know, I know, you're offering a trade -- but, as tecumseh pointed out, what you see as value in what you're offering isn't necessarily the same value others see in that same item.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

well, Kieck, I agree on the point that not all would appreciate. In fact, a good many prefer a Coors to anything like Guinness or Delerium Tremens anyway.....not problem with that, although I was hoping to find that "overlap".

As far as selling beer and wine, I'm really reluctant to hop into that legal mess.....my understanding is you can't do this as a garage venture.

As far as my "range", I live near Madison, travel to Milwaukee fairly often and Stevens Point even more often....I'd travel another hour from any of them, so most of South and Central WI. I shipped a 6-pack to a colleague in Washington as a Christmas present this year and it got lost in the mail ($11 to ship for Christmas, had to double-wrap everything to protect it, and list it as "marinades" because shipping beer is again a grey area)--I'm afraid to try that again. Because of those limitations, I had always planned on "local". Otherwise, as you said, shipping bottles would quickly pay for a package and if I buy outright I have somewhat more guaranteed product. Apparently WI just needs more high-end alcoholics.....


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<Apparently WI just needs more high-end alcoholics..... >>

Sometimes, quantity IS quality! Ever heard the Lewis Black routine from Madison?


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

yes, I have. And sadly, WI has no shortage of alcoholics, including 2 in my family, so the above was entirely tongue-in-cheek (before I start another storm over that). I grew up in St. Point, used to be in the guinness book for most bars in a square clock or some such.....and the town people were really quite proud. Madison was always a top-ranked party school, and I believe N. WI has more bars per capita than any other place in the US.

I brew lots of stuff, but I very rarely have more than a drink a day--watching family members trash their lives on it kinda makes you do that.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

markalbob could you send me your email address as I cannot seem to get a PM through. ?


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Focus,

I tried sending a pm, as I did get yours I assume you'll have mine.

If not, it's

markalbob(at)yahoo.com


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

Josh/Mark,
Keep your chins up. There are 5000+ members on this site, many read and only a few respond. Lack of response (or slamming) shouldn't discourage you. The way I see it, a five frame nuc goes for $90.00 locally with a 3lb package coming in at around $65-70...At $7.00hr which is what I pay to local's for field labor I figure I've got you for about 10 hours of work (I'm feeling a little generous). I would imagine that if we start early in the morning before it gets too hot (and stay out of Mark's beverages) we'll have time to go through the four hives in the yard and paint the barn. If that sounds like too much work, we'll settle on skipping the bees and going straight for the barn in exchange for a frame of brood and a frame or three shaken. You get your bees and I finally get the barn painted......... Downside is I figure I'm a little too far away for you to travel. Best of luck to you both though, keep plugging away.

David


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

markalbob sezs:
Well, Tecumseh, if you don't LIKE beer, then of course it's a bad trade. The hope was I'd find someone who both liked beer and had extra junk laying around.

tecumseh replies:
with the number of active commercial hives having gone from 4.5 million to 2.5 million hives in the past 20 years, I would think your logic is sound. richard taylor (who wrote a good deal about bees) acquired most of his equipment, for a pretty good sized bee operation, via garage and estate sales (or at least that is what he wrote in one of his little books).

the markelbob adds: 
I've never had shiner yet, but I've seen the bock and theri wheat both have lots of fans.....

tecumseh replies:
I am speaking of several decades ago bob before shiner was bought out by some commercial outfit and they actually produced a real bock. you should know how the 'real' process works..... only available seasonally (usually in October) when they cleaned out the vats.

shiners new stuff is ok... but still just a commercially acceptable product for folks with bland commercial taste.

then markelbob adds: 
and you WERE talking about showing the math, right? 'cause I didn't even do my hair today....

tecumseh replies:
now when it comes to hair... I could use some of that.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

that's the story of the microbrew.....it's my understanding Celis and several others were all far better prior to purchase as well.......


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