# net weight



## DanO (Jun 11, 2004)

Almost. Ask Google "1 ounce in grams" (without the quotes).


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## ZEEBEE (Aug 22, 2003)

Since honey is sold by weight,

12 oz of honey equals 1 pound ( What my scale says). However, 16 oz per pound of honey is considered the standard for 1 pound. Why is this so? Looks like we are getting ripped off here....

Is there some standard here I need to know about. Please enlighten me.

THANKS!


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## mattoleriver (Sep 20, 2003)

>Is there some standard here I need to know about. Please enlighten me.

Your 12 oz bottle holds a volume of 12 fluid ounces. Your honey will be sold by weight which is measured in avoirdupois ounces. Fluid ounces and avoirdupois ounces are completely different and have no direct relationship. Depending on what substance you put in the bottle the weight can vary greatly but the volume will always be 12 fluid oz. I don't know if there is some reason (other than federal law)why honey is not sold by the fluid ounce. 
If your figures are correct, 12 fluid oz of honey weighs 16 oz avdp. It would all be much simpler if the two units of measure had completely different names---I'd suggest something like grams and milliliters.
George


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## ZEEBEE (Aug 22, 2003)

Thanks George,

Two things:

1. Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense now.

2. This really sucks for beekeepers because we are getting fleeced! We are basically giving away a third of our honey for free!
Has anyone know if this issue was raised before? Honey isn't made by some chemical, industrial mixing process. These bees have to work to death for it. It should be held to a different standard!!

Thanks again George!


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

>2. This really s**** for beekeepers because we
>are getting fleeced! We are basically giving 
>away a third of our honey for free!

No we're not. Don't worry too much about this, there is no conspiracy to fleece beekeepers (well, there may be, but is does not revolve around fluid vs. avdp oz.), you seem to be worrying about nothing more than the use of two different units with similar names. It is easy to do and it can be confusing. 

If Billy gets $4 for 12 fluid oz of honey, and Bobby Ray gets $4 for one pound of honey, they are making the same amount of money for the same amount of honey.

It is unfortunate that the older units of oz have multiple meanings depending on the situation, but no one is using this to fleece you.

All you have to remember is that 12 fluid oz of honey is equal to 16 avdp oz. The key is not to focus on the term oz, but the preceding descriptor. that will tell you if it is measuring volume or weight.

Think of it this way: One avdp oz of melted gold weighs the same as one avdp oz of melted chocolate but will have a different volume (and a different sensation on the tongue). One fluid oz of molten gold occupies the same volume as one fluid oz of melted chocolate, but has a considerably different weight. See the difference?

Matt is correct that it would be far easier if the units of volume were clearly differentiated from the units of weight - But this is the old English system (not that the old English use it anymore) and we cannot seem to shake it.

>Has anyone know if this issue was raised 
>before? 

Nope - it really isn't an issue, most folks buy honey by weight, and a pound is a pound, and regardless of how many fluid oz of a given substance it takes to make one. Set your price on a per pound basis and don't sweat it.

>Honey isn't made by some chemical, 
>industrial mixing process.

Honey is made up of a plethora of chemicals. The bees are mixing in more chemicals and are quite industrious - some might argue that honey represents the original industrial revolution . . .









>These bees have 
>to work to death for it.

A bit dramatic there - not to be too anthropomorphic but I doubt they would have it any other way. 

>It should be held 
>to a different standard!!

No, it should be held to exactly the same standard as any other food. It *should* be safe, clean and packed accurately (by weight or volume) and sold honestly. 

Keith "much ado . . . ." Benson



[This message has been edited by kgbenson (edited August 03, 2004).]


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

When you are measuring water, a fluid ounce and a "standard" ounce are exactly the same. But honey ain't water. (Thank God)


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

@ 62 deg F. The density of water changes with temperature.
Water has it's greatest density at 39 deg F and the wieght of an fluid oz. will go down from this point as you get colder or warmer.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Greetings . . .

1 gallon of honey weighs 11 lbs., 13.2 ounces (at 68F).

HONEY:
8 fl oz (1/2 pint) = weighs .739 lb or almost 3/4 lb.

12 fl oz = weighs ONE POUND.

16 fl oz (1 pint) = weighs 1 lb, 7.7 oz or about 1-1/2 lbs.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

Yes indeed density does change with temperature.

I'm tempted to say it would all be so much easier if we just went metric, but even then one liter only equals one kilogram if you are dealing with pure water at 20 degrees C. Honey would appear to be "off". 

On the other hand I would prefer to go with metric measure no matter what. At least then people in the rest of the world would stop laughing at us.


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## ZEEBEE (Aug 22, 2003)

I understand the conversions. THanks.

I am looking at a jar of Gunter's honey that I bought from the food lion.

It says 16 oz (1lb) NOT 1lb, 7oz..

I'm still confused.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

Yeah, it's a horrible mess isn't it.

16 ounces is ALWAYS one pound.

16 FLUID OUNCES varies in weight depending on the density of what you are measuring.

You can imagine how a company that packages a lot of different products, each having a different density, struggles with their labeling.


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## mattoleriver (Sep 20, 2003)

We probably better not even mention that there are only 12 ounces in a troy pound.


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## Dee (Apr 22, 2004)

do this test...
if you have a small postal scale weigh one cup of water - you'll get 8oz right
now weigh 1 cup of honey - you'll get 12oz

its the quantity amount that really differs not the weight
16oz of honey is still 1lb but its NOT 2 cups - like water
people mistake 8oz of honey to be 1 cup instead of equalling 12oz because they've always been taught that 8oz equals 1 cup

[This message has been edited by Dee (edited August 05, 2004).]


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## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Uh.....

Don't forget, a volume of honey will also weigh in differently according to its moisture content......16% will weigh more than 18%. 

I dont bother with all the conversion stuff.
I put the jar on the scale, zero it, and pour. If there is an 1/8th or a 1/4 of an inch to the top...it matters not.
A pound is a pound is a pound.

J.R.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Does a 12 oz bear weigh one pound? Or is the 12 oz bear 3/4 of a pound?


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## Dee (Apr 22, 2004)

a 12oz bear is still only 12oz but it is also only 1 cup (compared to water: 1 cup = 8oz)


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## Hillbillynursery (Nov 13, 2003)

Yall are on the right track with trying to explain this problem. Food is sold by weight not volume. Sodas and other drinks are sold by fluid oz not weight oz. But honey is sold by weight oz not fluid oz. Unless you want to weigh each bottle/jar you have the right to sell it by volume. A local beekeeper got in trouble with the weigh and measurement people because he was selling his honey with a weight printed on the label and he just filled them to a line. He was over weight so the he got off real easy and had to mark thru the weight on each jar(he uses different sizes of canning jars). They told him just sell it by the jar. I had a simular issue with produce at the farmers market. I had a nice electronic scale which when they tested it was right but fined me $25 for it not being calibrated for sale use. So I sell produce by the box and you get what you get. I do weigh the boxes before pulling them off the truck to keep them all real close to the same weight. So when I start bottling honey I will be selling it by the bottle/jar and not by weight. A 12 fluid oz bottle hold about 16 oz of weight in honey.


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## mattoleriver (Sep 20, 2003)

Hillbilly,
are you sure that honey can be legally labeled without a declared weight? Labeling standards posted on the National Honey Board site seem to indicate otherwise. So far I have avoided the problem by not producing any excess honey.







http://www.nhb.org/howto/labeling.html 
George


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>are you sure that honey can be legally labeled without a declared weight?

Some states you can't. I think it depends on the state law.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

According to the way in reads in the Kelly catalog it is a Federal law,It reads 
>Federal law requires that a metric and ounce weight be provided on all honey labels.For example,16ounces(453g).Mark


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