# Turnkey topbar hive for selling to my "students"



## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I have quite a few people interested in the top bar hive now that are in my general area. Since I don't want to keep more than 4.5 hives on my small plot, I am thinking about branching out to out-apiaries. These would be yards of people I know (and who are not likely to sue me if they get stung) and have an interest in learning beekeeping. I'm trying to come up with a business model that makes sense for both of us.

I'd like to be able to put a fully equipped top bar hive with screened bottom board and gabled roof with hive stand on their property and populate it with my bees from an overwintered nuc. I would manage the bees and train/educate the homeowner how to take care of the bees through the spring and summer. At some point, they would have the option of purchase the complete hive (honey and all) or just the bees and comb in the box on their yard (and I would take my hive to another piece of land).

What do you think a fair price would be for a 28 bar top-bar hive that is full of bees and honey at the end of the summer where the homeowner has gotten the benefit of one-on-one training? Say the hive kit costs me $175 and I paint it, assemble it and retrofit it with an observation window. Plus the cost of an overwintered nuc. Would $450 be too much to ask for the hive? and $250 if they just want to buy the bees and comb?


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

What are your costs, all of them? Gas to go to these properties and provide training etc. What is your time worth per hour? What happens if the bees swarm or die, who bears that cost in your equation? Calculating the cost of the box(TBH) and the bees is the easy part. A lot of contractors that I know mark up their parts by 10%, and then charge you labor for their work. You could also look at it that way.


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## beegeorge (Apr 19, 2012)

compare it to a langstroth 28 top bars,, and I dont know what size they are,, but for simple assumptions I will say they are the same square footage of a langstroth frame,, would be 30 frames,, 3 deeps, top and bottom,, 
45 for boxes
30 for frames
12 for top
12 for bottom,,
and even if you charge 30 for foundation,,

that would be a total of 129

add in 65 for a package of bees,, 
brings it to 194

and I KNOW I can build that top bar for less than 50 (because I have done it) with brand new lumber,,

I would estimate the cost of putting a top bar together at about 180 MAX!!!!, total with stand,,

I would RUN FROM YOU like a GAZELLE!!! 

I think you are WAY overcharging


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## Mountain Bee (Apr 7, 2012)

$65 for a package? Not in these parts, if so put me on the list for a 100 of them and tell me who to make the deposit check out to.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

I think your prices are well in the ball park.Here a 10 frame Lang with bees, top,bottom and inner cover goes for north of 250 in the spring.


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## BeeGora (Oct 22, 2013)

ruthiesbees said:


> I have quite a few people interested in the top bar hive now that are in my general area. Since I don't want to keep more than 4.5 hives on my small plot, I am thinking about branching out to out-apiaries.


How does that half a hive work? :scratch:


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

i think you are on to something but might be a little on the low end of pricing actually, depending on what labor you intend to put into visiting your students. i would put a cap on that time, say 10 one-hour sessions for example. that leaves the schedule a bit more open to be flexible for weather and coordination of other life activities. now you can factor in a more accurate fuel cost assuming 10 trips.
potential for dead or absconded bees needs some thought. the option for not buying the hive itself benefits the student if they decide they do not want to keep bees after losing them. healthy bees swarm. maybe then you can sell them a second hive if you can catch the swarm. now theres even more education they get in that 10 hours!
price on the high end this year unless you really need the business. you can always drop price for next year when you may have a greater need to get colonies off your property.
and as far as $65/package, well i would RUN TO THAT like a GAZELLE!!!


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

BeeGora said:


> How does that half a hive work? :scratch:


with half a queen, duh


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

COAL REAPER said:


> with half a queen, duh


You guys are killing me... 1/2 a hive is a nuc with a newly mated queen who is still proving herself. (and considered my "spare" if a hive has a queen problem)

I'm still new to beekeeping myself and I'm not really interested in the business of "selling hives". I'm just very excited about the top bar hive for middle aged women that have no interest in the building/assembling/maintenance of Langstroth hives. The crux of the idea is not about honey production, but keeping healthy bees for a healthy environment. I think the new term is called "api-centric beekeeping". 

These potential "students" are interested in the pollen, beeswax and honey that comes off the hive and the pollination that they will get for their gardens. As well as a very cool teaching tool for their home schooled kids. I'd rather not have to go to all the work of assembling the kit and fitting it with a window, as my carpentry skills are very simple. I do however want to charge a fair amount for my efforts. 

I think the one-on-one lessons tend to happen regardless of whether it's a student-teacher or friend-friend conversation. I love to talk bees with people who have an interest in beekeeping. I love to tell them how much fun I have had with my top bar hives and educating them on planting bee-friendly flowers.


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

heh... sounds like they're giving you some trouble ruthie.
I think I would like to know why you are doing this?
Is this in order to start a business? or to start people out in beekeeping but ensure you're not out of pocket? (also putting a price on things ensure people aren't out for a free ride)
As a proper business model what you suggest would not be sustainable. There is no scaleability and you would very quickly saturate a small market with no protection for the intellectual property. Eventually someone would undercut etc etc. You also have the problem that the person who's land you are hosting on has no reason to "have" to do anything after any period of time other than a friendly handshake. 
If it is the second option there sure I think it sounds fine but there are probably easier ways to go about it where more of the work comes to you. Set up hive building class where you supply the materials and people put them together and then take them away. You can even throw in a little taster class. This will also mean you can do multiple builds with a single amount of time input. You also have an immediate return on your 'material' investment rather than buying say 5 hives and then having to wait til the end of the year to get your money back (if you do).
You would then sell the bees to them with the understanding that it comes with mentorship. You can even have little meet up at your place to cover more advanced topics.
At the end of the day ruthie it is up to you it is your time and your money. If it is a hobby/cottage industry ask what it is worth to you not what it is worth to others.
best of luck


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

AugustC said:


> heh... sounds like they're giving you some trouble ruthie.
> I think I would like to know why you are doing this?
> Is this in order to start a business? or to start people out in beekeeping but ensure you're not out of pocket? (also putting a price on things ensure people aren't out for a free ride)
> As a proper business model what you suggest would not be sustainable. There is no scaleability and you would very quickly saturate a small market with no protection for the intellectual property. Eventually someone would undercut etc etc. You also have the problem that the person who's land you are hosting on has no reason to "have" to do anything after any period of time other than a friendly handshake.
> ...


I don't really "want" to start a business, but I really want more people to keep honeybees for the good of the bees. Many people are open to that idea in this part of Virginia and I happen to think the top bar hive is a very easy way to get into that type of beekeeping. There is no one else in the area to do training on keeping a top bar hive, as all the local bee clubs teach Lang methods.

I'd be happier not selling my hives that I put all the work into putting together, but I hear the interested people say that the task to build one is too daunting, so I'm trying to come up with a price that will pay some for my time and materials, and not be so cheap that everyone jumps on board. I wouldn't want to have more than 5 out yards a year.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

TBH nucs sell for a premium, but $250 is pretty high. I personally wouldn't spend much on a TBH, that is one of the advantages, they are cheap to make. I'm sure you could find some people that would do it, but you have to develop the market. Folks like or Les Crowder have done that. If I was going to try to do that I would probably start on the education side, give seminars, put up a display at craft fairs or speak at events first. Generate the interest first and develop a following, otherwise you are just that crazy bee person. Come up with a marketing/media agenda first, then figure out how to sell bees. You won't get Hillary Clinton money as a speaker, but normally you would get reimbursed for time and travel, particularly if you can develop a strong following. You may want to talk to Michael Bush, Christy Hemmingway or Les Crowder about this offline, they are probably better resources then the list as a whole. (none of us are as dumb as all of us!)


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have been building langstroth apiaries for clients. I track costs for buying/assembling the equipment, making and installing cleat handles, assembling frames, wiring, embedding, painting, making stands, buying, catching and installing bees, setting up stands and feeding, and delivering it all to their site. I charge a profitable rate for my time. That all adds up to about $1700+ per brand new hive. Any good hive for sale for $250 is a deal in my mind.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

I'm not so sure about the "business model" part of it. I agree; it is not scalable and there is no "moat" from competitors. Your personal involvement makes it impossible to scale. Your time would not be your own, you would be fielding calls/questions along with the managing visits (and mixing/feeding?) and the hobby would soon become work. IMO. 

Assuming this is a short-term "good-will stint" and not a business, I think that's a fair price, if it works for you. They are getting a well built hive, not a piece of junk, the over wintered bees, someone to manage it for a time, hands-on training, plus option to buy. I doubt a true business would offer all that for $450.

I haven't seen any bee packages for $65.

I would be careful about liability. Might be your friends, but relationships can change when money is involved, and those friends have neighbors who could have issues. An umbrella liability policy is normally very cheap.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

ruthiesbees said:


> You guys are killing me... 1/2 a hive is a nuc with a newly mated queen who is still proving herself. (and considered my "spare" if a hive has a queen problem)
> 
> I'm still new to beekeeping myself and I'm not really interested in the business of "selling hives". I'm just very excited about the top bar hive for middle aged women that have no interest in the building/assembling/maintenance of Langstroth hives.


Me, too! I wish you were in Florida.


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