# Would you use rough sawn?



## No-sage (Mar 14, 2009)

I have rough sawn lumber, but I also have the equipment to make it smooth. Given the extra milling involved, I'm inclined to leave the wood rough.

The wood is sawn with a circular mill, so it's quite a bit rougher than a band saw mill would leave it.

What would you do? Does anyone use rough sawn boxes?

Thanks.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No, I would not. What's the advantage? I've been around rough cut bee boxes and the were not as nice to work w/ as planed.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with SQKCRK, we plane allot of our own wood to make the 3/8" lumber for roofs and innercovers. It is allot easier to hold tolerances with straight and true lumber. What size is the lumber now? You may have to doctor the print to hold the inside dimension of supers.

Crazy Roland


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

I've read on here that rough wood on the inside causes bees to add propolis which contributes to hive health since it is an antibiotic. Maybe leave the innner side rough cut.


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## pturley (Oct 4, 2010)

I've made a few hive boxes with rough cut lumber. In the end, it was easier once I planed one side to a uniform thicknesses. I still used an unfinished face on the inside only. I was going to leave both the inside and outside rough, but it wouldn't have taken paint as well and was easier to measure and cut the boxes once planed (my mill cuts varied quite a bit). 

Last item, your rip cuts for the top and bottom faces of the boxes will need to be very clean/smooth in order to hold a tight fit and stable stack of boxes (again, my mill cuts were not very good). I belt sanded mine once assembled. My impression was that the rough faces would've trapped more water between them and would then be prone to rot faster.


Sincerely,
Paul Turley


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

you can leave the inside rough but later when you can't get the frames out you may wonder why you did that.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

As far as the bees are concerned...no big deal. They'll seal the inside with propolis which, as it's been mentioned, is beneficial.

As for me, no, I would not. Your rough cut boxes will not be the same size as your planed boxes. Lids made for planed boxes will not fit the rough cut boxes...just a little too tight. Frame rests will have to be cut differently, and the inside dimension will have to be the same for both boxes, which will make your outer dimensions different.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

deleted double posted


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## MJC417 (Jul 26, 2008)

I built hives out of rough cut pine and they work the same as my store bought hives. The only difference is more propolis on the inside.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My preference would be rough inside and smooth outside... they will proplize the inside as has been noted, and I'll get less slivers if the outside is planed...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

pturley said:


> In the end, it was easier once I planed one side to a uniform thicknesses.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Paul Turley


You do realize that what you describe is impossible, don't you? Maybe you meant "smoothness", not "thickness"? It just caught me funny.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I use band saw mill cut wood, (Cypress, Pine, Poplar), but, I Plane it both sides to uniform thickness. Unless saw mill cut is very rough, I believe it would would work. If you are just making them for yourself, it really depends on how many you plan to make, and how much tool time you want to spend. cchoganjr


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

From a practical point I think it would depend on the species and cut of the boards. Most mid grade pine will cup substantially during drying. Planing allows you to flatten as well as smooth.
Unless you start with flat boards your tolerances will be all over the place. Nice cuts of pine, and most cuts in cedar will cup much less. In which case dressing one side so that all boards are uniform thickness is a option. That's what I have done on about half my boxes. Rough side in to encourage propolis...which it has. So far so good. I did hit them quick with a Random orbit to get rid of the "fuzzies" as I think they might tweak your tolerances as the propolis builds.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

sqkcrk... You could have laughed at me too. I did not explain mine very well. 

I wrote that I use band saw mill, rough cut wood. Then I plane both sides to uniform thickness, To avoid confusion, I was talking about multiple boards being planed to uniform thickness, not one board, which would be impossible.. Even with a good saw mill, not all boards will be uniform, so l rough plane both sides, Then finish plane them.

If pine, or poplar is strip stacked, and you have uniform width cut lumber stacked together, you will get very little cup in the drying process. My mill cuts at 1 inch and the first plane gets virtually all the cup (if there is any) out of it. Bee hives are not fine furniture. cchoganjr


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I heard Marla Spivak speak last year. She comment rough finish might be good inside the hive bodies to encourage the bees to propolize the inside.
They don't propolize the inside of smooth hive bodies like they do in bee trees. As someone said the propolise has antibiotic properties.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Band sawn rough lumber will often be uniform enough to use as is. A light run through a thickness planer, even if the cut is hit and miss will make it easier to keep box internal dimensions consistent though. Rough sawn with a circular saw can be pretty wild especially if 'arry is not a good filer! Depending on how much dirt the boards have picked up they can quickly dull the cutters on one of the little householder planers. If that was the way the boards were I would be inclined not to plane them and not bother painting either. Maybe touch up the end grain at the corners.

One of the pictures is some rough sawn cedar 7/8" thick. The other box I built I planed the lumber.


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## pturley (Oct 4, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> You do realize that what you describe is impossible, don't you? Maybe you meant "smoothness", not "thickness"? It just caught me funny.


One-sided planer, better side of a mill cut board down, away from the knives... One side planed smooth to bring the board to a uniform thickness, opposite face still mill cut. 

Where is the confusion?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Paul, I doubt anyone was confused. He be playing word games with ya, but perhaps he does have you on a technicality. I think maybe he is board or is that boared or bored?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

pturley said:


> One-sided planer, better side of a mill cut board down, away from the knives... One side planed smooth to bring the board to a uniform thickness, opposite face still mill cut.
> 
> Where is the confusion?


No confusion on my part. It's just that you can't plane a plane to a thickness, by definition. You can plane a board smooth on one side and to a specific thickness, but not one side. Like you wrote above, "One side planed smooth to bring the board to a uniform thickness,...". Whereas, in your previous Post you wrote that you planed one SIDE to a uniform thickness, which is impossible.

No biggie, just humorous. People often don't say what they mean. Peace.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> sqkcrk... You could have laughed at me too. I did not explain mine very well.


I'm sorry if my observations of the human condition come across as if I am laughing at the Poster. Far from it. Not laughing at the Poster, but tickled by what the Poster wrote.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

sqkcrk... I knew that. Just having a little fun. No one should be taken too seriously, especially me.

cchoganjr


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Good to know.

We have enuf ununiformity between equipment supplier, rough cut adds another dimension (pun intended) to the mix. I'm sure someone building their own equipment isn't much concerned w/ selling any of that equipment to anothger beekeeper and how it being roughcut would make it something to get used to for another beekeeper.

I'm sure a small percentage of all the equipment out there being ruff cut won't make much difference overall. And I can see that there could be some advantages what w/ the antiseptic qualities of more propolis.


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## Beeboy01 (May 20, 2008)

I would use rough sawn for boxes any time if the price was right. Running a few hundred board feet of lumber through a planer to smooth off the high spots and getting the thickness close sounds like fun. If you can get wood from a mill for a good price why not. I bought some rough cut pine from a wood vendor years ago and ended up spending a lot more per board foot than it would of cost at a big box store once waste and split ends were factored in, it was a real disapointment and I didn't go back to him. You will need to get the wood for pretty cheap to make it worth your while.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

No-sage said:


> The wood is sawn with a circular mill, so it's quite a bit rougher than a band saw mill would leave it.
> 
> What would you do? Does anyone use rough sawn boxes?


I would use it for bottom boards. Not all Sawyers know how to saw lumber properly, if they just slab out plank after plank and pay no attention to the grain, the wood will be mostly useless except ripped down into narrow pieces like would be used in a bottom board. Nothing wrong with rough sawn boxes, but unless you have quality sawn and seasoned lumber you may be wasting a lot of time building boxes out of it.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I just wish I knew of a good local mill . . . other than the box store . . .


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## pturley (Oct 4, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> No confusion on my part. (SNIP)
> No biggie, just humorous. People often don't say what they mean. Peace.


Ok, so I totally missed the joke! No problem. As I say in indoor soccer "no blood, no foul"'.

I was aware of Marla Spivak's observations regarding rough cut faces when I made my boxes... This is clearly a more significant point than any literary critique to be sure...

Sincerely,
Paul Turley


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Specialkayme said:


> I just wish I knew of a good local mill . . . other than the box store . . .


Look west my friend; mills all over western NC. There is also a mill right on Lee street in G-boro, Not sure if it is still there though. Haven't been there in 7 years.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Specialkayme said:


> I just wish I knew of a good local mill . . . other than the box store . . .


Get out in the country and do some exploring. They're out there.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Specialkayme said:


> I just wish I knew of a good local mill . . . other than the box store . . .


You might want to contact this small sawmill owner/operator:
http://www.friddlewood.com/index.html

He's located not far away from you, in Stokesdale, NC and is a beekeeper as well!

Note that big box stores sell "kiln dried" lumber, lumber from small local producers is more likely to be "air dried", or possibly still green.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

There are free sources that many may be overlooking. The 1 X 12 used in roofing, siding and shelving, is used by building contractors. Several years ago, I got in with several local builders, (give them some honey) and they save their cut offs for me. If they are finishing a roof with a 16 foot board, and a 12 foot room on the end, after the overhang you have boards about 3 to 4 feet long. Unfortunately fewer and fewer contractors are using 1/ 12 on roofs. But I still get lots each year. 

Another good source is to get in with small building suppliers, (not Lowe's or Home Depot) and get them to save you contractor bring backs, imperfects, and at a fraction of original cost. You will have a lot to cut out and throw away, but, since bee boxes, bottom boards, inner covers, etc., use short pieces , you can still get the wood at a fraction of original cost. 

If you know of any old busineses going out of business, most of them have shelving that is 1 X 12. This is really really dry, works well. Lots of times they don't even think about selling the old shelving until you mention it to them.

These sources are not like premium cut commmercial, kiln dried, but they work well for the beekeeper, and they are cheap to free, my favorite prices.

cchoganjr


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## Rob73 (Apr 19, 2009)

I built some hive bodies from some rough cut poplar last year. They look good but are a little bit heavier. They are like 7/8's thick but my foam telescoping covers and regular hive bodies fit up with em just fine. There is just a bit difference in the outside dimensions. I wont make anymore out of the 7/8s poplar though. I can get an 8 foot 1x12 pine from my local do it center for like 6 bucks, not worth the extra work for the heavier poplar boxes, plus driving 50 miles to get the lumber. But, they do work just fine.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

I have been using boards from my own saw mill for yrs never had any trouble.its a woodmizer LT40hd also O plane all the wood there air dried to 12% moisture. also trade lot of wood off it too. never found any trees that wouldn't make a box.
Don


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

what is o plane?


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