# Modified Langstroth hive?



## Rader Sidetrack

Welcome to Beesource!

What you are describing is very much like the "Garden Hive" described at this link:
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/8-Frame-English-Garden-Hive/productinfo/254CW/

The link above is for an 8 frames box size, but BM also sell components for a 10 frame version. Note that the IPM bottom is a screened bottom.

If you want plans, Beesource offers free plans for all the 10 frame components except for the garden roof and quilt box:
http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/ 

As for the quilt box, build an extra hive body, staple 1/8" hardware cloth on the bottom of the box and fill it with your choice of your desired quilt material.


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## jdmidwest

I have been making the gabled roof, aka the garden roof, for my 8 frame hives and I really like them. The bees seem to like them also and they look great. I will see how they perform this winter.









I found a plan for the gabled roof on the net and modified it too fit the hive.


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## bklimeck

Thanks for the link and that's exactly what I had in my minds eye. Now will it work as a Warre box and if I can convert a medium super into a quilt box what do you think about putting slats in the bottom of a medium super and make a large feeder box out of it, and will it work?


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## Rader Sidetrack

I am not especially familiar with Warre hives, but I don't understand what kind of feed will work with slats in the bottom of a box.

If you want to feed syrup, plans for a Miller style top feeder are also at the Beesource link above, and it is compatible with other Lang style boxes.


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## bklimeck

I wasn't sure what the feeder set on or how the bees got to it. I'll have to see what all is available through that site so until then please bear with me. First I need to put together two hives but I don't have the money to reinvent the wheel so I'm still wondering if converting a Langstroth into a Warre will give me the best of both worlds. What other assessories will I need to make it work etc? This whole concept of a garden hive is new to me.


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## Rader Sidetrack

If you are planning on putting frames into the hive, why are you calling it a Warre hive? From what I see, you are going to end up with a Lang hive with a garden roof top on it, similar to _jdmidwest'_s photo above.


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## odfrank

The big question and answer that you have not proposed is: will it have frames or only topbars? A true Warre is a topbar hive, a Modified Warre has the footprint of a Warre but the frames of a Langstroth. A garden hive will only be a Warre in disguise if it has no frames. A Modified Warre is a Langstroth in disguise. 
I filled these three this year, a Warre, a Modified Warre and an Octagon Warre:


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## odfrank

I filled these three also this year:
Warre with windows on the left, Eight frame all medium Lang on the right, top bar with window to the rear.


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## sqkcrk

r those Mr. Miagii's hives?


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## odfrank

sqkcrk said:


> r those Mr. Miagii's hives?


No, I was paid to build, setup, fill and maintain all of them. Mr. Miagii would have done them himself while mentoring Daniel in the Zen of Beekeeping.


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## bklimeck

From what I see at this point is theoretical in nature. All your comments are valid and appreciated, but what I see is the Warre hive ventilation keeps the drier and that keeps down bacteria and molds and well promotes a healthier colony. The down side is top bar maintenance, I know some call it a positive allowing the bees to do what they do best naturally. But for my purposes I'm looking strictly at the ventilation and its benefits. Now the Langstroth, the standard of the industry. The benefits include ease of harvest and ability to work the colony. The problem though is it's not the most healthy situation for the bees. So back to my original question can I take the best of the Langstroth box, everything commercially available, and blend the best qualities of the Warre box in a good looking garden package and make it work? After all if the bees aren't happy they won't make enough stores to survive the winter let alone enough to harvest no matter how good the box looks.


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## jdmidwest

I did notice this summer that the hives with the gabled roofs had fewer bees on top of the inner cover than the standard telescoping covers when there was hot weather.

But they do propolize the gable covers and not the normal telescoping ones.


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## bklimeck

So what's the answer? I've got to get starred soon. Before I comment to buying the bees I want the best home I can provide them. I'm leaning toward a hybrid system but which way is best for my climate in western NY in the heart of lake effect snow country. In a good year the bees have five months or foraging to fill the hive and I have two or possibly three months of feeding the bees to keep good healthy colonies. So am I thinking in the most correct way or is there a better way?


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## sqkcrk

Langstroth style equipment works best where your hives will be living.


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## bklimeck

Ok, now what about the screened bottom? And what other accessories will I need with my goals in mind?


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## odfrank

>So back to my original question can I take the best of the Langstroth box, everything commercially available, and blend the best qualities of the Warre box in a good looking garden package and make it work? 

Yes. 
You might have to make a quilt box out of an empty super, as a Langstroth ten frame quilt box might not be available. If you want to more closely match the size of a Warre, use eight frame Langstroths.


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## jadebees

I have noticed that an 8 frame hive, if the cut out was on the sides, would take a Warre topbar across the width. There is no reason a standard floor could not be used. it would be at least 1 5/8" deeper, and would have either a deeper, (more fragile ) comb, or would require the use of my trusty table saw, to reduce it to Warre box height. A medium super would be another option. I have considered this, for a 'sort of' long topbar hive similar to a KTBH, Leg-less, a long hive is easy to cover for winter proofing. No ants here in January, but plenty of cold in these mountains! @ 7000 ft.
I keep both types of hives, feed with inner covers, lang style. Hives get a quilt After they have been fed full, but not ever with a feeder in there. I only use folder frames for cut outs in the Warre hives, otherwise all are topbar. The health bennies are well worth it. Get an old fashioned burr comb tool. You will avoid much problems if you do not mix hive types except for specialized things. Like frames when cutting comb into a warre box. String and rubber bands just dont really do it well. Otherwise, Abbe Warre really was on to a good thing. Search online (Youtube) for traditional Japanese beehives. Similar to Warre boxes!


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## bklimeck

Remember what the goal is here. That the stock 10 frame Langstroth box set on a screened floor modified to work like a Warre box. The configuration would look something like this, screened floor with 3 fully framed 10 frame large supers followed by a queen separator and 2 medium supers and then the modification put a screen on the bottom of a medium super converting it into a quilt box and top it with a garden roof. I read all over the net ways to modify the Warre box, why not the standard Langstroth. I'm going to try and log every step of the way. Theoretically I should have the best qualities of both boxes without getting into the top bar verse frame debate.


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## Jonathan1

I am doing something very similar. I am building an 8 frame med. langstroth hive (5 bodies) on a sbb base with closeable bottom 'drawer' and a quilt box on top that I will also use to feed syrup from (2 quart mason jars). I will use an open/ventilated/yet telescoping roof - another warre mod. Checkout House of Bees as he has a warre mod very close to what I will build except that my bodies will be lang 8 med and my roof will telescope over the quilt body/box. Good luck with your venture! I think it will be interesting to create a lang hive with a warre twist and hopefully get some bee health in the bargain. The cu. vol. will be more than Warre recommended, but not that much more. Also, I am using bottomless frames/foundation-less. I am hoping I can also enter the hive very rarely as Warre recommends. He recommended only twice a year (spring and fall harvest), but I recognize that there are issues that arise that will make standard frames useful if I need to enter the hive. One other build I will attempt before next winter will be a mountain camp dry sugar feeder that will go under the quilt on top of the hive for extra winter feed should they need it.


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## catbackr

I did exactly what you are talking about with a half dozen of my langstroth hives last fall. I first started out making screened top feeders ala Lauri Miller. It then occurred to me that I could make them a little taller and make it into a quilt box. I put it over a candy fondant, put in burlap over the screen and filled it with wood chips just like the Waare hive I had. All of the hives I did that to made it through the winter and I liked it so much I intend to modify all of my hives before next winter.


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## Jonathan1

catbackr, thanks for your post. I am very glad to hear your high opinion of quilt boxes as I have built both of my hives with quilts modeled on Darren Gordon's design at House of Bees. I used his design as I wanted to try using the boxes to also feed syrup when necessary without encouraging robbing. I like your idea of burlap on top of the screen though as that will keep wood chips/shavings where they belong. Hopefully, I will have the success you have experienced.


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