# Controlling Small Hive Beetles



## Groundhwg

Expecting to pick up my first hives in April and am now trying to get some things ready such as my hive stand. One of my concerns raising bees in southeast Alabama is controlling the small hive beetles. If I understand it right part of the SHB’s life cycle requires that beetles complete their larval development and exit the hive to pupate in the soil. Would it help to place my hives on a concrete pad, say the end on my driveway? Could I place my hive stand on top of several inches on gravel and it help to disrupt the beetles life cycle? :scratch: For control of the SHB in the hive it appears that the Freeman Beetle Trap has good reviews. I welcome all/any of your thoughts and ideas. Thanks.


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## snapper1d

I have found that the oil traps like Freemans work best.I have made bottoms with just small screened areas instead of the whole open bottom and have done real good at eliminating them.Also found that any oil trap no matter what size needs to be towards the back and right against the sides.Beetles are ridge runners.Look at your bottom boards and you see them mostly crawling around the edges.Look at this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TmlLbk42nY


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## Jayoung21

I'll be following this thread as i am declaring war on SHB this year. I have my hives on concrete pads that used to be old grain bins. I have noticed that i don't have nearly as many than i did when i had them on grass when i lived in middle Tn. I live in west Tn now. However, that could be just due to the fact that there and many many more hives in mid tn so general SHB populations in my area now could be much lower. I do still have them though. This year i plan on spraying guardstar around my hives (use it on my cows too). I am also going to use the traps that fatbeeman recommend with the corrugated plastic, boric acid, and crisco. I plan on feeding nonstop pollen patties this year to build as much as possible so SHB control will be of utmost importance. I think i may have a few freeman traps as well buried in the shed that i never used. Will have to dig those out and give them a try. One other thing about having them on concrete, you dont have to weedeat right next to a hive full of angry bees. Thats a plus.


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## Phoebee

A couple of years back, a poster from Florida compared his SHB results for one apiary on a concrete pad to this others. The SHB problem was much less on the concrete pad. This did not make sense to some experienced beeks here ... some say it does not matter if the larvae die, because by the time they leave the hive the damage has been done and the hive has been slimed. But thinking for the future, killing the larvae prevents adults.

Our tiny little apiary has a double layer of weed block under gravel. This probably is not the best environment for baby beetles. We don't have a lot of problem with them, but then again we also use Freeman Beetle Traps, which also kill any varroa mites that fall into them.

Picking the right site is everything. Low wet areas are bad. Shady is bad. Well-drained and sunny is good.


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## D Coates

I was having SHB issues. Upon the urging of another beekeeper I moved the hives into full sun. Their numbers reduced dramatically for me (85-90%). You still have to make sure your hives are properly taken care including not giving them too much space. I advise anyone that'll listen to move them out of the tree line and into full sun. It's the easiest, cheapest, and most effective way I've found to deal with hive beetles that doesn't adversely affect the hive or it's harvestable honey in any way.


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## warrior

FULL SUN, this is probably the first and most important.

If you're worried about SHB pupa on the ground it's already to late. By that time your bees have been slimed.
Sure be kind to your neighbors and treat with guardstar or nematodes so you don't spread SHB.

STRONG COLONIES, I can't stress this enough. SHB are the ultimate opportunists and are present and patiently waiting in every colony for even the slightest momentary weakness to pounce. Any weakness will be exploited.

NO EMPTY SPACE, if it isn't covered by bees it's a devil's play ground for SHB. 

NO HIDING PLACES, any crack, crevice or hole inside the hive is a SHB lounge. Plastic frames are SHB condos.

CONTROLLED ACCESS, no entrances the bees can't guard. SHB assault colonies from all directions so any opening becomes a point of entry. Bye bye top entrances, open screened bottom boards, propped up covers.

TRAPS, TRAPS AND MORE TRAPS,
the freeman bottom board style has been proven to be the most effective for me but it is just one of many that work and no one thing is even close to being fully effective. Think defense in layers.
Combine all the above plus traps and you can keep them in check but you will never win.


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## mybeeguy

I love the idea of sawing out a small square in the back right side of the bottom board, say 3 inches by 3 inches and then stapling some #8 hardware screen. Any reason why I shouldn't do this?


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## warrior

Almost forgot, CHICKENS.
While I can't make any claims to the effectiveness I do like seeing my hens scratching around my colonies. They will eat SHB adult and larvae if given the opportunity and like all things SHB it's a game of percentages. If my biddies just knock back five to ten percent then that's better than none.


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## Phoebee

mybeeguy said:


> I love the idea of sawing out a small square in the back right side of the bottom board, say 3 inches by 3 inches and then stapling some #8 hardware screen. Any reason why I shouldn't do this?


The only solid bottom boards I have are the bottoms for my swarm traps. Everything else is a fully screened bottom (#8 hardware cloth). Our full sized hives are Freeman Beetle Traps (an oil tray under the screened bottom, or you can use an IPM sticky-board for mite counts). The nucs have screened bottom boards with sticky boards, although I recently discovered that I can get nuc-sized Freeman traps.

Our bee supplier allowed us to customize our beginners sets, and gave the same discount on the upgrades that he did on the basic kit.


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## Swampsquash

I made some of these beetle traps:









They are a pain because you have to put an empty super on top but they seem to be effective. They also require no harsh chemicals.


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## Phoebee

Here's one kind of screened bottom I don't recommend: double screened. We picked up a nuc last summer, and for some reason the bottom board was double screened. I'm guessing this lets you stack nucs. We borrowed the hardware to return once we moved the frames into our own woodenware.

When we got to our apiary, I picked up the nuc and a hoard of SHB ran out. While the hive itself did not have a heavy infestation, the beetles found a safe refuge in the double screen. There are reasons to use double screens, but I would expect this result if beetles are around. There must be some way to put some lethal trap in there.

Given the new 8-frame home with a Freeman trap, the bees had the problem fully under control within a few days.


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## Groundhwg

I just join this forum yesterday and it is awesome to be so welcomed and for you folks to be so helpful. Know I have a lot to learn and much will happen after I have my hives but to receive so much knowledge from experience beekeepers is priceless. Seems that attacking SHB and other pests is best by using a multiple pronged attack. First will be the Freeman traps or making the small “wire traps” in the bottom corner of my hive but I do have one more question about using these traps. I saw that when using the traps that you sprinkled powdered sugar on the frames which caused your bees to be more aggressive and they chased the beetle around the hive and the SHBs take cover in the trap(s). Well my question is two parts: How often should you “sugar” your hive? And does the action of sprinkling your with powdered sugar make your bees more aggressive/difficult to work.


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## Phoebee

You don't "need" to hit them with powdered sugar to make them chase beetles. A strong population of bees just loves to chase beetles in their spare time. Michael Bush says it encourages them chase beetles, and his opinion is valued here. The other thing powdered sugar does is make them groom, which can cause varroa mites to drop. It is not a very effective means of varroa control, but on a single-deep colony it may help _a little_, particularly if the mites drop onto a death trap like an oil tray or sticky board. Powdered sugar is almost harmless to the bees ... a study showed that it can kill larvae about to pupate but you have to nearly fill the cells for the harm to occur. A dusting is harmless. It seems to distract the bees rather than make them aggressive.

The problem for me is getting the sugar dust on uniformly. It likes to clump. A shaker of some sort may work for you, but I would up getting an insecticide duster, one of those old-fashioned pump gizmos, at a garden supply store. With some tinkering it did make a decent sugar duster. I still use it occasionally. I prefer to dust the frames as we inspect (husband-wife team, and this takes one to hold, one to spray). That gives a more uniform coverage. Shaking over the tops cannot possibly give good coverage.


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## snl

mybeeguy said:


> I love the idea of sawing out a small square in the back right side of the bottom board, say 3 inches by 3 inches and then stapling some #8 hardware screen.


Is #8 hardware screen large enough or do you something bigger for the beetles to fall / get thru to the oil tray?


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## bean tree homestead

what I plan to use this year
http://www.dadant.com/catalog/natural-pest-controls/m01545-beetle-bee-gone


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## snl

Swampsquash said:


> I made some of these beetle traps:
> They are a pain because you have to put an empty super on top but they seem to be effective. They also require no harsh chemicals.


But won't you get tons of "crazy" comb built up in that empty super?


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## ruthiesbees

No one has mentioned this yet, so I will. For controlling SHB, I like to use Diatomaceous Earth. All my topbar hives have screened bottom boards where I can insert the IPM board underneath. I put the DE on the solid bottom board and make sure the bees cannot get into that space. The bees drive the beetles and larvae down into that and it suffocates their breathing holes/ or cuts their soft bodies to pieces (whichever research paper you want to quote). However the mechanism of death, it works very well for me. I believe it also helps to keep the varroa mite from returning back up to the hive population. I do use powdered sugar as a means of varroa control and find after a treatment (once a month), I have many more SHB on the DE dust. You do need to change it frequently as it clumps together in the humidity, and then it doesn't work very well. They just walk off the pile.


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## warrior

#8 works as they can squeeze through. I think #7 would be better and in the future will be what I use.
Oil trays are a PIA, aside from spillage you get every piece of trash and any water produced in the hive finds it's way into the tray and since oil floats on water the oil goes away.
I save oil for when it's obviously needed. The rest of the time vaseline sticky boards work as does diatomaceous earth, quick lime or trappers glue/tangle foot (the used on glue boards) but you still have the trash and water issues.


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## Rusty Hills Farm

I use oil traps with great success. I stopped planting cucumbers and cantaloupe and that seems to help, as well. DE works too, just not as fast.

If you live somewhere with big SHB pressure, pollen patties only make matters worse; consider mixing your pollen sub into a pint of 2:1 syrup--the bees get the sub and the beetles get nothing. 

HTH

Rusty


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## snapper1d

warrior said:


> #8 works as they can squeeze through. I think #7 would be better and in the future will be what I use.
> Oil trays are a PIA, aside from spillage you get every piece of trash and any water produced in the hive finds it's way into the tray and since oil floats on water the oil goes away.
> I save oil for when it's obviously needed. The rest of the time vaseline sticky boards work as does diatomaceous earth, quick lime or trappers glue/tangle foot (the used on glue boards) but you still have the trash and water issues.


You are right about the water.That is one reason I use a small oil trap along the back edge of my boards.Beetles run the edge back and fall in and I get very little water because of the hives tilted forwards.


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## warrior

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> I use oil traps with great success. I stopped planting cucumbers and cantaloupe and that seems to help, as well. DE works too, just not as fast.
> 
> If you live somewhere with big SHB pressure, pollen patties only make matters worse; consider mixing your pollen sub into a pint of 2:1 syrup--the bees get the sub and the beetles get nothing.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Rusty



OMG, I can't be without cukes and melons. The secret is to eat all of then and leave none in the field. Chickens help here as well.
Good catch on the patties either pollen or grease. They can be fed but you have to match the size and timing to colony strength. Give only what a colony can clean up in 24-48 hrs and then directly on top of the brood or cluster where the bees can get right to work.


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## ToeOfDog

<<Would it help to place my hives on a concrete pad, ???>>>

Go to Youtube, National Honey Show, Dr Jamie Ellis on SHB, The part where the SHB larvae is escaping from his 2nd floor office.

oil pans are nasty, use DE.

They are at the worse in July, August and early Sept. Make sure you have a high bee density then. No excess area to patrol.

Gentle bees seem to get overrun more easily.

Most SHB problems are with the beginners. My hives are in the shade.


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## warrior

X2 on gentle bees getting over run.

They don't have to be nasty bees but a bee that will defend itself is what is needed.


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## Bkwoodsbees

Strong hives and keep them in full sun as stated. Also any open knot holes or crevices inside hive bodies or supers should be filled in with wood puddy. I also stopped using inner covers. Inner covers give the shb a sanctuary away from bees. Now I am able to go back to solid bottom boards with no real shb issues.


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## Groundhwg

I was trying to find out what Diatomaceous Earth was and how to use it and found this product - St. Gabriel Organic Diatomaceous Earth insect dust – is this what I would use in place of oil under my bottom board to kill SHB? One place had 4.5 pounds bags for sale. Any comments as to how long i.e. how many hives you could protect with that amount? Appeared you could use it in the Freeman type trap in place of oil with a lot less mess. Would it also be effective in the smaller (2x4) bottom board traps? Whether killed by oil or DE how should you dispose of the dead beetles?

Sorry but I did not see the “Diseases & Pest Forum” until after I had posted in this forum. Joined this Bee Source less than 24 hours ago and do not want to cause problems. Should I ask a moderator to move this thread or is that possible?


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## ruthiesbees

That's one of the brands that I have used. Depending on how humid it is in your area, you will change it out ever 1-2 weeks. I even keep it on in the winter since they are mild in this part of VA and the beetles overwinter in the hive. On a really good cold night, lots of dead SHB in the dust. I don't have any experience with the Freeman traps since I'm only topbar hives, but I remember seeing people post that they use it in them instead of oil.

As for disposal, you can either dig it in your garden, or put it in the trash can. I prefer the trash can in case there are any larval grubs not yet dead. (don't want to add them to the ground where they need to pupate).

Some people use the DE found at Tractor Supply that is food grade. It's more expensive, but they feel it's safer in case it gets blown into the honey stores.


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## ToeOfDog

Any feed and seed has DE. They feed it to chickens. Tractor supply has a 10 pound or 20 pound bag. Lasts forever.


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## Bkwoodsbees

Tractor supply sells diatomaceous earth in 20lb bags. I think the price is around 20 dollars. DE works great as long as it stays dry. I used it in my trays and liked it . Heavy rains, water would find its way in. Just dump out then add new.


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## erikebrown

Bkwoodsbees said:


> Tractor supply sells diatomaceous earth in 20lb bags. I think the price is around 20 dollars. DE works great as long as it stays dry. I used it in my trays and liked it . Heavy rains, water would find its way in. Just dump out then add new.


We have lots of DE that we use with our pool filter. Is this okay to use with the bees? Or should this be avoided? I'll have to look at the label.

I didn't have any SHB problems last year, though I did see a couple. Going into my second year and contemplating how best to be prepared.

Erik


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## ToeOfDog

<<< Is this okay to use with the bees? >>>>

I have a debris drawer underneath a screened bottom board. The screen separates the bees from the DE.


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## Bees of SC

Is this the same diatomaceous that is used in swimming poles?


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## ruthiesbees

I have heard that you should not use the Diatomaceous Earth that is for swimming pools It has additional things in it.

You can use the DE that is labeled for "crawling insect control"


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## mr.c

Diatomaceous Earth is made up of the exoskeletons of minute sea creatures called diatoms. The food of choice of some species of whales. 
As I understand the mechanics of it's use for killing bugs, it would be similar to us walking around barefoot in a room full of broken bottles. The sharp exoskeletons pierce the body of the bug and the bug dies from dehydration. It is not poisonous (at least not in it's natural state). I believe that some people eat it. There are probably some compounds of DE that have poisonous elements added to the natural DE. That wouldn't be something to ingest.


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## herbhome

I have used DE for many years for a variety of applications. For the SHB larva I think it is useful to dust the soil under the hives to kill larva that drops out. It will help to control ants. It can be used as a wormer for livestock. Also will control fleas and ticks if added to dog bedding. It is often used to protect organic grain from weevils by adding it in the sack.


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## Groundhwg

Bkwoodsbees said:


> Tractor supply sells diatomaceous earth in 20lb bags. I think the price is around 20 dollars. DE works great as long as it stays dry. /QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks for the head's up. I got lucky, was in Tractor Supply this morning and they had a 20# bag on sale for only $9.98 so I picked it up. It was the food grade like you folks suggested.


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## Groundhwg

ruthiesbees said:


> No one has mentioned this yet, so I will. For controlling SHB, I like to use Diatomaceous Earth. The bees drive the beetles and larvae down into that and it suffocates their breathing holes/ or cuts their soft bodies to pieces I believe it also helps to keep the varroa mite from returning back up to the hive population. I do use powdered sugar as a means of varroa control and find after a treatment (once a month), I have many more SHB on the DE dust. You do need to change it frequently as it clumps together in the humidity, and then it doesn't work very well. They just walk off the pile.


Will the DE dust also kill the mites that fall through the screen?


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## ruthiesbees

Groundhwg said:


> Will the DE dust also kill the mites that fall through the screen?


They use DE to kill mites on chickens. Different kind of mites, but it works the same way. I have not seen any scientific documentation to say that it works with bee mites, but in theory it should. I can't even find scientific documentation that mentions using DE in a bee hive. It still doesn't stop me from using it in all of mine, and encouraging other beekeepers to give it a try.


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## Groundhwg

ruthiesbees said:


> They use DE to kill mites on chickens. Different kind of mites, but it works the same way. I have not seen any scientific documentation to say that it works with bee mites, but in theory it should. I can't even find scientific documentation that mentions using DE in a bee hive. It still doesn't stop me from using it in all of mine, and encouraging other beekeepers to give it a try.


using a Freeman type trap under the hive about how much DE should I use in the trap? 1/4", more or less?


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## Phoebee

Groundhwg said:


> Will the DE dust also kill the mites that fall through the screen?


That should be fun to test. Alas, our mites just had an unfortunate accident with some oxalic acid vapor, but I'm sure there will be more. We just bought a bag of DE from our garden supply center, and I have microscopes. I can run video on my inspection microscope, which should show what happens to the nasty little things when they drop into DE. It will no doubt be slow, but I'm good at time lapse. I'll give it a try next summer.

Supposedly the reason powdered sugar works is that it gets in the joints of the mites.


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## Groundhwg

Now that will be something to see. Look forward to seeing such a video.


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## Phoebee

That will go on my list of bee video projects. I bought a little Ulster obs hive with the idea of watching what happens when various treatments are applied. For mites, powdered sugar, formic acid, or OAV treatments could be videoed. If I could cage some drones carrying varroa, that would give me some video subjects I could keep on camera.


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## sc-bee

Just use a small hole saw and drill toward the corner and screen. Attach the smallest rim ring of a canning jar(jelly jar) underneath and screw the small jar on with some oil in it.


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## warrior

Unfortunately DE can't be used for varroa. The same dessicating effect would kill the bees. Think of DE as thousands of tiny little knives and needles. That's why there has to be a barrier between the bees and DE. 
If it makes you feel any better though just think of those mites that do fall, into a pit of tiny little knives.


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## ToeOfDog

i use a dusting of DE. Anything beyond 1/16" is a waste.


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## Groundhwg

ToeOfDog said:


> i use a dusting of DE. Anything beyond 1/16" is a waste.


Good deal. Lots of folks here with information. You and others are sharp as #2 pencil on the first day of school. So you only need a dusting in the tray, not trying to drown them in the DE.


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## ruthiesbees

Groundhwg said:


> Good deal. Lots of folks here with information. You and others are sharp as #2 pencil on the first day of school. So you only need a dusting in the tray, not trying to drown them in the DE.


I put more than a "dusting" on the screened off bottom board, but I believe your question was in regards to the Freeman beetle trap, and I've not used them before. I like my small hive beetles covered in dust. We also have a very humid summer and it starts to cake together so they just walk on the top of it. Mine can be from 1/4" to 1/2" on the IPM board.


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## herbhome

DE will kill mite and insects but it is not immediate. Works by dehydration, cutting through the exoskeleton.


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## Richard P

I am a newbie, but have an oldtimer with some great remedies. On hive beetles I was advised to take an unscented, folded swiffer pad, and lay it on the corner of the top set of frames. On my hives, that would be right under my top box with the sugar feeders. I put it beside my pollen pad. I keep em in all of my 6 hives. The beetles crawl over and inside the fold, and get stuck in the material. I had a bad infestation of them 3 weeks ago in 1 hive, put double pads in, and the next day I had at least 50-60 stuck on the pads, I did that for 3 days in a row, and knocked them out. They just go to them and get stuck. Love it. As general precaution, I just leave the 1 pad in at all time. Hope this helps.......


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## Groundhwg

Richard P said:


> I am a newbie, but have an oldtimer with some great remedies. On hive beetles I was advised to take an unscented, folded swiffer pad, and lay it on the corner of the top set of frames. On my hives, that would be right under my top box with the sugar feeders. I put it beside my pollen pad. I keep em in all of my 6 hives. The beetles crawl over and inside the fold, and get stuck in the material. I had a bad infestation of them 3 weeks ago in 1 hive, put double pads in, and the next day I had at least 50-60 stuck on the pads, I did that for 3 days in a row, and knocked them out. They just go to them and get stuck. Love it. As general precaution, I just leave the 1 pad in at all time. Hope this helps.......


Is this the type of pads you are using - sweeper-dry-pad-refills-unscented-37-count -

http://swiffer.com/en-us/shop-produ...lls/swiffer-sweeper-dry-pad-refills-unscented

Thanks


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## Richard P

we use a generic, but yes, thats the ticket. Open em up, then fold em over in half. I knocked out that infested hive in like 3 days, and the girls were able to keep up with it from there.


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## Groundhwg

Richard,
Thanks.
Sending you an off topic PM.


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## warrior

Just a word of caution on the use of DE. Keep it out of the "living areas" of the hive. If you use a blower to rob your bees don't use it on the hive.


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## Bowfinger

I use the Freeman traps. I built these: http://www.greenbeehives.com/abgrbe.html

I use 1/4 sheet foil pans in them so far. I shy away from DE so far but at $9 I may try it. I don't put much oil in the pans at all just make sure they are covered. beetles crawl around and get in it. then they are done. same for a few wax moths and worms, ants, mites. Supposed to help mites by %15 percent if you do counts. I rescued the first hive last fall with this trap, a beetle blaster and just shaking them out frame by frame and mashing them. They were in partial shade and I think it is a problem. But all I have is shade in my home yard where I caught them. Good luck.


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## Richard P

Good to know. Thanks for the help and info. My mentor is working on a design that a member our our bee association made, This will be a great illustration for us. Thanks again.


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## Groundhwg

ruthiesbees said:


> I put more than a "dusting" on the screened off bottom board, but I believe your question was in regards to the Freeman beetle trap, and I've not used them before. I like my small hive beetles covered in dust. We also have a very humid summer and it starts to cake together so they just walk on the top of it. Mine can be from 1/4" to 1/2" on the IPM board.


Will lime dust work as well as DE does?


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## Groundhwg

warrior said:


> Just a word of caution on the use of DE. Keep it out of the "living areas" of the hive. If you use a blower to rob your bees don't use it on the hive.


If using an Oxalic Mite Vaporizer can you still have DE in the Freeman trap?


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