# Hot hive cross comb mess



## Westhill (Jul 26, 2012)

Newb here, so maybe I have no idea, but do you have a smoker? I don't think water spray is enough. Smoke masks the bees' alarm pheromone so they can't tell each other through smell, "That guy is here with the knife and tongs! Everyone freak out and sting him now!" With smoke, they just mellow out. "Knife and tongs? Whatever. No one else seems to care, so I'll just hang out peacefully on this comb here."

I burn pine needles in my smoker and my bees are totally relaxed. You don't need a lot of smoke, a few puffs should do. Puff some smoke in, wait a couple of minutes, and enjoy your bees.

Also get some gloves if you're worried about them stinging your hands. A lot of people use those nitrile gloves that you can get at the hardware store. You may go back to being barehanded in the future, but right now they've got you worried so just for your peace of mind, I'd suit up (in layers of clothes if you don't have a bee suit) and wear gloves, and use cool smoke. It will help you relax during what has become a stressful chore. Good luck!


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

Suit up, light a smoker, and fix it. Get some nitrile gloves as well. My hive last year got really defensive later on in the year, started out pretty mellow, but after a while it became defensive as their numbers grew. I will not go into hive without smoke unless I'm looking for a queen or robbing honey, or if its just to replace a jar of sugar water. With that many bees and no smoke, I'm not surprised they went nuts when you started messing with their comb like that.


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

Westhill said:


> Newb here, so maybe I have no idea, but do you have a smoker? I don't think water spray is enough. Smoke masks the bees' alarm pheromone so they can't tell each other through smell, "That guy is here with the knife and tongs! Everyone freak out and sting him now!" With smoke, they just mellow out. "Knife and tongs? Whatever. No one else seems to care, so I'll just hang out peacefully on this comb here."
> 
> I burn pine needles in my smoker and my bees are totally relaxed. You don't need a lot of smoke, a few puffs should do. Puff some smoke in, wait a couple of minutes, and enjoy your bees.
> 
> Also get some gloves if you're worried about them stinging your hands. A lot of people use those nitrile gloves that you can get at the hardware store. You may go back to being barehanded in the future, but right now they've got you worried so just for your peace of mind, I'd suit up (in layers of clothes if you don't have a bee suit) and wear gloves, and use cool smoke. It will help you relax during what has become a stressful chore. Good luck!


I got by last summer and this spring without a smoker. I could get in the other hive with shorts and a t-shirt most of the time. They come running out after I take a out a bar. A squirt of water would send them back down. They were always calm unless I moved in too fast or banged a bar. I just need to break down and buy a smoker....and a proper headnet. 

I wore cotton gloves and most of the time it doesn't make it through. I need some nitrile gloves anyway for hot peppers.

This swarm off my other hive just have a totally different attitude. They are kicking the original hives but however. I am more worried about kids playing nearby because they tend to butt you when you walk by.


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

Sovek said:


> Suit up, light a smoker, and fix it. Get some nitrile gloves as well. My hive last year got really defensive later on in the year, started out pretty mellow, but after a while it became defensive as their numbers grew. I will not go into hive without smoke unless I'm looking for a queen or robbing honey, or if its just to replace a jar of sugar water. With that many bees and no smoke, I'm not surprised they went nuts when you started messing with their comb like that.


Thanks, I agree. This swarm has built well over half of a 48" new hive with comb in a month. I caught the swarm from my other hive on 5/13. My other hive started last July and is just now half of a 40" hive. They are on a mission I need to keep them straight. They were festooning and building right at the follower board. I suppose busting up clinging bees doesn't help when going in. I have tried to keep 3 or 4 empty bars ahead of them but they surprised me. I'm thinking the got within 3 bars of the end and it was a "stuff it in anyway you can comb fest cause the flow is on".


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Sovek said:


> Get some nitrile gloves as well.


Yes by all means get Nitrile gloves to work a mean hive> I read it on the internet, They cannot sting through them. RIGHT!!!!


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

The sting actually helps my arthritis and tendinitis. I just want them to keep peace in the hood. The neighbors don't want too see me running from the hive. It makes things hard to explain. They need to embrace and not judge to keep the population healthy as they sit on their porch in disbelief with a negative attitude while I delve into the hive.


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## Yoku (Jun 8, 2015)

Tenbears said:


> Yes by all means get Nitrile gloves to work a mean hive> I read it on the internet, They cannot sting through them. RIGHT!!!!


I was stung today with nitrile gloves, I crushed the bee by mistake but that stinger definitely went through.


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## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

Yoku said:


> I was stung today with nitrile gloves, I crushed the bee by mistake but that stinger definitely went through.


I almost always work my hives barehanded. And when they sting my bare skin, those stings go right through too! But I don't post on Beesource how upset that I am that I got stung. Because I'm not. I chose to work barehanded and actually get stung less that way then when I wear gloves. 

If you don't want to get stung at all, go buy a medieval suit of armor, or don't keep bees. It's that simple. You're really not going to be a beekeeper and never get stung.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

If you manage to spot the queen in this nasty hive, you may want to "do her in" and let the hive raise a new one. (although they can be more testy without a queen for those 4 weeks). To fix the comb issue, try removing the bar from the hive over to a nuc or what I use is a hanging file folder frame as my extra set of hands. Getting it away from the main hive will help lessen the amount of bees to deal with. But you really need to deal with the comb soon. I had one collapse in mine last year and I left if far too long. I finally just suited up and dug in. By the way, I use anise oil in my water bottle, which helps mask their pheromones. Much better than plain water, in my opinion.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

Learn to keep a smoker going, learn to use a smoker properly. 500 fires. This may mean that you light it in the backyard and play when there is no intention of working bees.

Bees are a wild animal. Last year you were working with a cute little "bear cub", poking her in the ribs and "playing" - that wasn't playing for her it was practice... This year she is full grown and when she takes a swat at you it's gonna hurt.

You can move festooning bees without much issue, crushing bees and failing to use smoke is what gets them stirred up.


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

ruthiesbees said:


> If you manage to spot the queen in this nasty hive, you may want to "do her in" and let the hive raise a new one. (although they can be more testy without a queen for those 4 weeks). To fix the comb issue, try removing the bar from the hive over to a nuc or what I use is a hanging file folder frame as my extra set of hands. Getting it away from the main hive will help lessen the amount of bees to deal with. But you really need to deal with the comb soon. I had one collapse in mine last year and I left if far too long. I finally just suited up and dug in. By the way, I use anise oil in my water bottle, which helps mask their pheromones. Much better than plain water, in my opinion.


But please read up on re-queening first.. if you let them raise one from the existing brood you will get the same genetics back. Only by requeening with brood from a different hive will you change what's going on if it is genetic.


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

ChuckReburn said:


> Learn to keep a smoker going, learn to use a smoker properly. 500 fires. This may mean that you light it in the backyard and play when there is no intention of working bees.
> 
> Bees are a wild animal. Last year you were working with a cute little "bear cub", poking her in the ribs and "playing" - that wasn't playing for her it was practice... This year she is full grown and when she takes a swat at you it's gonna hurt.
> 
> You can move festooning bees without much issue, crushing bees and failing to use smoke is what gets them stirred up.



Have to agree.... smoke is your friend.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I think a lot of folks open up hives at bad times, do invasive things, don't use smoke because they saw it on some cartoon, spray them with some water of some sort because a ding-dong said it was better for the bees (because they LOVE being rained on), etc etc.

Then they think they have a hot hive. Watch videos of PROFESSIONALS like Michael Palmer doing hive inspections, watch him making up mating nucs in 50-60 degree pouring rain... learn how to deal with bees a little before you dub them "hot". If your experience with the hive involved you opening them up and spraying water on them, I don't think you can call them a hot hive until you handle them like an actual beekeeper and not a wingnut. I don't mean that offensively... but spraying water on bees to calm them down is about the freaking goofiest thing I've heard.

What I've been doing for smoke (and it's been working great lately) is taking a 8-9" piece of 3" wide cardboard and rolling it up. Light it and get it going a bit. Then I take a handful of grass clippings that have been composting in a heap in the corner of my yard for quite awhile and I stuff that all on top of it. I get great smoke with this method and it will smolder for hours. Usually I have a supply of punk wood on hand, or just burn whatever I can find at whatever outyard I'm at, but with the non-stop rain we've been having I've been carting along a wad of this grass for use because it's somewhat dry.






Disclaimer: I'm not actively smoking bees like that, just showing you how I get the thing going and what the smoke looks like. It's nice and cool because it's going through all that somewhat moist grass on it's way out of the smoker... which also acts like a spark arrestor if you have issues with ending up with a flame thrower.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

cgybees said:


> But please read up on re-queening first.. if you let them raise one from the existing brood you will get the same genetics back. Only by requeening with brood from a different hive will you change what's going on if it is genetic.


The workers that develop from the queen are also influenced by the drones genetics that she mated with, so the daughter queens are not exactly the same as the queen mother. I had a queen that started producing "irritable" workers. I let them re-queen from her eggs 'cause she was a fantastic laying and a survivor queen. Her daughter produces much nicer worker bees. We shall see if she got the survivor genetics as well. Don't forget the other half of the equation.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Split it into as many nucs as you can and put nice queens in all of them.


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## shayron (Feb 27, 2015)

Smoker - Good.
Cross Comb - Bad
My daughter came home to help me with my NEW beehive Love and a cross comb problem I needed a second pair of hands to help fix... These little ladies worked sooo fast that I wasn't ready for them to build over 15 combs in 2 months. 
We made a video, its long, but it eventually has its happy ending.


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

shayron said:


> Smoker - Good.
> Cross Comb - Bad
> My daughter came home to help me with my NEW beehive Love and a cross comb problem I needed a second pair of hands to help fix... These little ladies worked sooo fast that I wasn't ready for them to build over 15 combs in 2 months.
> We made a video, its long, but it eventually has its happy ending.


Thanks for the video. I like how you brought it all out in the same time. Hopefully my bees will be that mellow when I apply smoke. I can pull 10 bars of brood and nectar out of my other hive with water only. They don't even land on me. The new have comes at me from all directions when the first bar is popped. It may not be what some would call "Hot", but it get your attention.


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

shayron said:


> Smoker - Good.
> Cross Comb - Bad
> My daughter came home to help me with my NEW beehive Love and a cross comb problem I needed a second pair of hands to help fix... These little ladies worked sooo fast that I wasn't ready for them to build over 15 combs in 2 months.
> We made a video, its long, but it eventually has its happy ending.


EEEeeeeshhh, I'm only at 8:31 and several cringing moments, seriously, I'm literally cringing at that.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

shayron said:


> Smoker - Good.
> Cross Comb - Bad
> My daughter came home to help me with my NEW beehive Love and a cross comb problem I needed a second pair of hands to help fix... These little ladies worked sooo fast that I wasn't ready for them to build over 15 combs in 2 months.
> We made a video, its long, but it eventually has its happy ending.


How is that colony doing now?


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