# Creamed Honey



## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Does anyone know what kind of equipment can be used to grind a course creamed honey into a good seed starter? I have looked at the Dyce method and elsewhere without any luck. Several references mention using a meat grinder but further investigation indicated the meat grinder is used to break the honey up for mixing and not to reduce the size of the crystals. I know that you can purchase good cream honey and use it for seed, but I would like to make my own.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Does anyone know what kind of equipment can be used to grind a course creamed honey into a good seed starter?

Go to the health food store. Buy a hand flour mill. Set it to fine. Grind the granulated honey. Twice for good measure won't hurt.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> >Does anyone know what kind of equipment can be used to grind a course creamed honey into a good seed starter?
> 
> Go to the health food store. Buy a hand flour mill. Set it to fine. Grind the granulated honey. Twice for good measure won't hurt.


Michael,

What kind of volume can you run through one of these mills? I am making 5 gallons of creamed honey at a time and plan on scaling up to 20 gallons or more. If I add 10% seed it will require about 2 gallons for the grinder. Any thoughts?
Thanks


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*CREAMED HONEY by Warren Schave*

Here is a search that I made for you.
CREAMED HONEY by Warren Schave

Recipe to make 1 gallon (12 LBS.) batches on a stove.

1. Pour 12 LBS. honey into large pot.

2. Warm honey over stove at Med.-High setting.

3. Use candy thermometer to measure temp. and bring to 140 degrees F. to remove all natural crystals.

4. Stir honey with rubber spatula during warming process to prevent hot spots.

5. After 140 degrees F. is reached, remove from stove and let honey cool to 90-95 degrees F.

6. Skim off all bubbles and foam with spatula.

7. While honey is still at 90-95 degrees F., add 1 LB. Sue Bee Premium Clover Spun honey, or equivalent, as seed honey to start the smooth granulation process.

8. Mix or stir this seed honey thoroughly with liquid honey until it is totally blended together. Try not to add air bubbles while stirring.

9. Cover and let stand a minimum of 12 hours to allow bubbles to rise.

10. Again skim off all bubbles.

11. Pour honey mixture from the large pot into a bottler or container with pour spout for easier pouring, i.e. large measuring container with spout.

12. Select plastic tubs or glass jars of your choice for final packing.

13. Pour mixture into tubs or jars you selected.

14. Place containers in an environment that is closest to 57 degrees F. and let stand. In Fall, Winter, and Spring - an unheated room or building like a garage works great. In Summer, a refrigerator works best.

15. After 5-7 days your creamed honey should have a texture from creamy butter to firm.

Variations of Recipe:

- 2 LBS. of seed honey can be added in step 7 to speed up the granulation process just a bit if desired.

-Flavoring can be added such as cinnamon or peach.

-If flavoring with cinnamon spice, add a minimum of 1/8 c. gradually during step 4. Add more cinnamon for stronger flavor.

-If flavoring with extracts such as peach - add 1 - 2 capfuls during step 8. Add more for stronger flavor.



The views and opinions expressed in this page are strictly those of the page author.
The contents of this page have not been reviewed or approved by the University of Minnesota.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

*Creamed honey secret*

buy a small container of Volcano Island Kiawe honey at Whole foods. Take your nicest whitest honey, liquify it to about 140 degrees. Let it cool to room temp. Scoop out the Kiawe and add it. Keep the whole thing in your basement (54 to 58). It will take about 3-6 week for the rest of the bucket to granulate. That will get you started. there is one more trick to keep it soft after packaging but it is a guarded family secret. Good luck.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

I really appreciate everyones help. Michael mentioned a hand mill for breaking crystals down to a finer size. Maybe a motorized version could handle a larger volume. I've heard of people using grinders designed to break down paint pigment. This is the only sticking point (no pun intended) left for me. I have also read that this is one of the most heavily guarded trade secrets that manufacturers of creamed honey keep. The crystals need to be reduced in size down to the 30 micron (or below) level so the mouth cannot detect them. 

Michael,

Does the hand mill produce a really fine texture?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What kind of volume can you run through one of these mills?

I never measured it. I only use it to make seed. But you could use it to make creamed honey...

>Does the hand mill produce a really fine texture?

Yes. As fine as fine flour.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> >What kind of volume can you run through one of these mills?
> 
> I never measured it. I only use it to make seed. But you could use it to make creamed honey...
> 
> ...


Thanks Michael,

I will look into flour mills. Our honey here in Nevada has extremely low moisture which makes it extremely viscous. I will try the hand mill before going with a motor to see if it can handle the job. One of the nice things about honey with a moisture content around 10% (at times) is that I don't need to cook it. Even if the glucose releases water to the fructose as it crystalizes there is not enough for yeast to grow. The down side is the stuff is really thick and will probably need to be heated to 100-120 to work with the mill.

Thanks again.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In my opinion heating honey is sacrilege. I don't have any problem getting nice smooth creamed honey without heating it.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I just take 10 to 20 percent seed and place it in a kitchen aid mixer. I then add a good amount f honey to it and turn the mixer on low with a paddle attachment. After it was mixed for a while, I pout it into the bottling tank with all the honey and stir it with a big big whisk. 

As for air bubbles, it does not matter if you have them. The Canadians mix creamed honey in big 50 gallon hobart mixers for a whole day and it is smooth with tons of air bubbles. It settles for a half day and they pour it into the containers.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> In my opinion heating honey is sacrilege. I don't have any problem getting nice smooth creamed honey without heating it.


I'm not sure if you are commenting on the typical pasteurization of honey prior to making creamed honey of if you are referring to temps between 100F and 120F. I understand the philosophical point behind your response, but in practice we often times have to compromise. 
If you make creamed honey from honey with a moisture content around 15% then there is a real risk of subsequent fermentation. As you may already know, glucose releases water hydroscopically bound to it as it crystallizes. The extra water brings the relative moisture content within the uncrystallized fructose fraction within a range that allows yeast to grow. So most methods that describe making creamed honey recommend pasteurization to kill the yeast prior to adding the seed crystals. If one sells creamed honey that was not pasteurized, then they are taking a risk that must be weighed. Our honey in Nevada is so thick and dry that the water gained by the fructose is still not enough to cause fermentation. I usually heat my honey to 100F (which is no higher than the hive temp) poor into a five gallon bucket and add seed crystals when it has cooled to 80F with a stainless mixer on the end of my drill motor. The only time I use 120F is for pumping and to dissolve crystallized honey. I don't like heating to 120, but our honey won't move very well through a gear pump when much cooler. I plan on purchasing a progressive cavity pump this year which should allow me to pump cooler.



Chef Isaac said:


> I just take 10 to 20 percent seed and place it in a kitchen aid mixer. I then add a good amount f honey to it and turn the mixer on low with a paddle attachment. After it was mixed for a while, I pout it into the bottling tank with all the honey and stir it with a big big whisk.
> As for air bubbles, it does not matter if you have them. The Canadians mix creamed honey in big 50 gallon hobart mixers for a whole day and it is smooth with tons of air bubbles. It settles for a half day and they pour it into the containers.


Chef Isaac – Did you mean a 50 quart mixer or did you really mean 50gal? I am seriously considering purchasing a 60quart mixer to support all my hobbies. 

If you turn your creamed honey tubs upside down after pouring, the honey will form a nice layer against the lid that is free of bubbles. 


I’m not sure in my original question if I defined the problem sufficiently. If you want to make creamed honey with your own seed crystals then you will need to grind them at some point. Every subsequent batch of creamed honey will have larger crystals until you arrive at a not so creamy creamed honey. If you are content purchasing creamed honey from someone else, it is a moot point. However, I would prefer to use my own creamed honey as seed. Michael suggested using a hand mill which I plan on investigating. I’m not sure if Nevada honey will work out with a grain mill or not, but it is worth a try. If a motorized gadget was available that seemed particularly well suited to the task, I would lean in that direction.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Michael Bush said:


> In my opinion heating honey is sacrilege. I don't have any problem getting nice smooth creamed honey without heating it.



I think you need to experiment with your honey and decide if heating is necessary. The quality of the resulting product and whether heating is required is HIGHLY dependent upon the nectar source. My springtime honey will make very nice creamy honey without heating, but the cotton honey will form very course grains if not heated. I've also seen Star Thistle honey from Michigan naturally form wonderful creamed honey without any starter seed. So experiment with your honey and decide with approach is best.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'm not sure if you are commenting on the typical pasteurization of honey prior to making creamed honey of if you are referring to temps between 100F and 120F.

Yes, and no. I don't heat it at all, so I don't do that, of course. But the typical temps for "pasteurization" are NOT 100 °F and 120 °F. They are 145 °F for 30 minutes - or 150 °F for 15 minutes.
http://www.masterbeekeeper.org/dyce/creamhoney.htm

>I understand the philosophical point behind your response, but in practice we often times have to compromise.

But I don't have to. I get wonderful creamed honey WITHOUT compromising the flavor or enzymes of the honey.

>If you make creamed honey from honey with a moisture content around 15% then there is a real risk of subsequent fermentation.

I don't own, and have never owned a refractometer and have never had my honey ferment unless I left some out open in a humid area for a long period of time.

> As you may already know, glucose releases water hydroscopically bound to it as it crystallizes. The extra water brings the relative moisture content within the uncrystallized fructose fraction within a range that allows yeast to grow. So most methods that describe making creamed honey recommend pasteurization to kill the yeast prior to adding the seed crystals.

Yes, I know. But I have not found it necessary. My honey seems to be low enough in moisture and crystallized fine enough that it hasn't made any difference.

>If one sells creamed honey that was not pasteurized, then they are taking a risk that must be weighed. Our honey in Nevada is so thick and dry that the water gained by the fructose is still not enough to cause fermentation. I usually heat my honey to 100F (which is no higher than the hive temp)

And not high enough to kill any yeast.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> >I'm not sure if you are commenting on the typical pasteurization of honey prior to making creamed honey of if you are referring to temps between 100F and 120F.
> 
> Yes, and no. I don't heat it at all, so I don't do that, of course. But the typical temps for "pasteurization" are NOT 100 °F and 120 °F. They are 145 °F for 30 minutes - or 150 °F for 15 minutes.
> http://www.masterbeekeeper.org/dyce/creamhoney.htm
> ...


Michael,

I think we basically agree. It sounds like you have a history that indicates that you are unlikely to have fermentation problems, and I know from my refractometer readings that my honey won't ferment either. AstroBee's comment about nectar sources also has merit. If I started with honey that had a moisture content around 15-15.5 % (recommended in the Dyce method if I recall) and sold product to the public, I would be tempted to pasteurize. On the other hand, if my honey had some large seed crystals, I might raise the temp to 120F for awhile to reliquify.


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