# What do the big boys do for mite treatment



## jakeoz65 (Aug 25, 2014)

I am starting to get several hives now. I am curious as to what the commercial boys do for their mite treatments.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

At least one commercial beekeeper - Randy Oliver - uses the oxalic acid "dribble" method to control varroa. See this page: http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Apivar is one of the best. Not hard on brood or queens and mr oliver found no buildup.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

PM me if you want to know what the "big boys" really use.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I once saw a you tube vid about a guy using a big long gun type OAV
to treat his hives while walking from hive to hive in short distance. Not sure
how the other commercial set up do it.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

most all of the "big"boys are migratoy beekeepers who winter in the far south and send bees to almonds. the hives are split several times in the winter. an exact copy of their mite control procedure would not fit for northern wintered bees... but you can learn a lot from the commercial operators, as mentioned above an oxalic acid dribble once in late fall, between haloween and thanksgiving is often used. these bees are often split, requeened , fed and given pollen sub to get a "spring" build up started before christmas. this is not the calander for northern wintered bees and self raised queens. the oxalic acid dribble is quick and cheap but it is for use once on no brood hives. oxalic acid dribble is often hard on queens


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

The 3 commercial guys I have as mentors use apivar strips. Fast, easy, not messy and convenient.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

mathesonequip said:


> oxalic acid dribble is often hard on queens


In terms of overall longevity or winter queen loss?


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

zhiv9 said:


> In terms of overall longevity or winter queen loss?


... both. 20% queen loss is possible. drone laying and sterile queens are possible. if you do it right once, it is not too bad. doing it more than once is apt to be trouble.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

mathesonequip said:


> ... both. 20% queen loss is possible. drone laying and sterile queens are possible. if you do it right once, it is not too bad. doing it more than once is apt to be trouble.


Perhaps that is with multiple treatments. OA has been approved here for quite awhile and a single oxalic dribble when wrapping in November is very common. Its a good final cleanup, but not a replacement for early fall mite monitoring and treatment. I haven't noticed a high queen mortality or drone layers. Queen longevity has many factors and is tough to nail down any specific cause.


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## DmacShack (May 22, 2013)

When it comes to OA dribble, make sure your concentration is accurate. A "hot" solution can burn up a lot of the bees, so get a scale and measure precisely.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

zhiv9 said:


> Perhaps that is with multiple treatments. OA has been approved here for quite awhile and a single oxalic dribble when wrapping in November is very common. Its a good final cleanup, but not a replacement for early fall mite monitoring and treatment. I haven't noticed a high queen mortality or drone layers. Queen longevity has many factors and is tough to nail down any specific cause.


I would go even further than that. If properly mixed and applied I would put queen losses at near zero. In addition to that and in spite of conventional wisdom, brood loss is a non-factor as well. I'm not just pulling that out of the air either, it comes from comparing large scale numbers of hives treated with an OA dribble, with a hopguard strip and with no treatments at all. My major reservation with OA dribbling is when it's a fall treatment with a hive of 5 combs or less and cool temps. In that combination of conditions the treatment really tends to stress the hive to a point where it may not survive a northern winter. My experience is queen losses are highest when mite numbers get high so any downside risk of a treatment has to be weighed against the potential losses of no treatments.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

i agree with the last 3 posts. if you are going to use oxalic dribble know what you are doing.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Check this video. It's about things other than OA treatment but at 4.37 you can see a guy upper left of screen start walking away from the truck carrying a red container and start oxalic dribbling the hives. That's pretty much how large beekeepers can do it, but it's not the full treatment story they will have other things they do for mites also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxcpGJ_2Df8


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

And that's what makes the world go around..


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Oldtimer said:


> Check this video. It's about things other than OA treatment


Well Duh....... It's the Nutra Bee sub that he feeds that's what make those hives look like that.....


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## Jed (Feb 23, 2013)

get taktic from austrailia very effective if you don't over use it ... has same active ingredient as the apivar strips but cost a fraction


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Well Duh....... It's the Nutra Bee sub that he feeds that's what make those hives look like that.....


Shameless!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Apivar


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JRG13 said:


> Shameless!


So true Jeff..... I put that in there just for Ian.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Keith Jarrett said:


> So true Jeff..... I put that in there just for Ian.


lol, oh Keith, I have started mixing up a patty recipe that packed the brood this spring!


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Jed said:


> get taktic from austrailia very effective if you don't over use it ... has same active ingredient as the apivar strips but cost a fraction


How do you use it?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Ian said:


> lol, oh Keith, I have started mixing up a patty recipe that packed the brood this spring!


Sweet! Hope that continues to work well for you Ian.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

A page from your book Keith, focus on nutrition, health of the hives follow suit.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

You guys make it sound like providing good nutrition and mite control are 90% +of being a beekeeper


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Mbeck said:


> You guys make it sound like providing good nutrition and mite control are 90% +of being a beekeeper


lol, shhh, 
but you forgot the 'hard work' part


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## jakeoz65 (Aug 25, 2014)

If I may ask. What's your recipe


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Mbeck said:


> You guys make it sound like providing good nutrition and mite control are 90% +of being a beekeeper


You left out one...... 1, Low mites, 2, good young Queens & 3, well fed hives. The 1,2,3 of beekeeping.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jakeoz65 said:


> If I may ask. What's your recipe


you may ask but Keith ain't telling
if you want mine, you can find it somewhere within the ramblings of the link posted below,


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Well said Keith. Only 3 keys in beekeeping. Focus on that and what ever effort is required to accomplish that and pollination contracts will easy to find, bees can be sold and honey will find it's way into the boxes.

Jean-Marc


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

See, beekeeping is so simple with just one quick question!
So why go through Australia when you can get it from Mexico?
A lot cheaper to get them in. And I'm not sharing my secret patty recipe either.
Not that it is no good. If the bee likes it then it is good enough. One bee I squished with the
guts all over while trailing them the other bees went for the nutritious guts patty. Yep, they do like them alright.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Oldtimer said:


> carrying a red container and start oxalic dribbling the hives.


I wouldn't call that "dribbling". Drench is a more fitting word.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Search some info Randy has on his website about Amitraz. It's effective but it does have its hidden down side. It does bind up the bees ability to detoxify toxins


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## Jed (Feb 23, 2013)

Ian said:


> Search some info Randy has on his website about Amitraz. It's effective but it does have its hidden down side. It does bind up the bees ability to detoxify toxins


I agree with you on this Ian , that's why I stated that you can not over use it , I only treat with it 2-3 times a year haven't see any trouble with it yet


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## T.Smith (Aug 26, 2009)

How are y'all administering the taktic


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The last time I read that the mites will develop resistance to this treatment.
The 12% solution will no longer be effective soon? I have only used OAV so not sure
about the amitraz. An old timer here use it every season just before raising his queens for sale.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

If you feel you need to use amitraz just bite the bullet and buy some Apiguard. Compare around $4.00 a treatment to a $170 pollination fee, bulk bees at $20 or honey at $2.00 per lb. The low dose longer treatment the strips provide is still extremely effective against mites with no danger of comb residue.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

I had a conversation with one of my Mentors yesterday. I asked him what he does for mite control. He was moving a truck load of bees down from NC. Preparing to move a couple semi truck loads down to the Florida Brazilian pepper fields. He told me that the bee inspector said Florida has not seen a case of Tracheal mites in Florida in over two years. He also told me some of the commercial beeks are mixing chlorine into their syrup and they are spraying down their hives with a 50/50 solution of bleach and water to combat mites, going into the winter months.
Interesting note, he was telling me some of the commercial beeks are spraying their hives going into winter with other chemicals like coral, due to cost. He said that was happening especially with the guys shipping to the almond fields.
So, I contacted another commercial beek that mentors me a little closer and he said that was true. But, he cautioned me and told me that while it was a common practice, it was not a legal acceptable practice. And, he said if not done incorrectly, it would kill all of the bees.* He advises not to do it!!!!*
I asked both why they do not use a vaporizer. Their comment was the toxicity to humans through respiratory and the amount of time it would take. He pointed out that 1500 hives @ 2minutes each is 3000 hours. He said basically a day to do one of their apiaries. Where he could go through and spray or insert painters sticks with approved chemicals and be done in 3-4 hours.
But, he did tell me when hanging up, that a small amount of bleach in the syrup will stave mites off and help keep the syrup from spoiling. And if I spray the hives with 50/50 bleach the bees will leave the hive and beard for a short while as the chlorine gases evaporate.
Both agreed, that using approved methods are safer, costlier, and achieves the same results. They both said their "official treatments" are to use Apivar strips.
So, I called my #3 mentor and he said he uses Apivar strips exclusively.
And then I called Dadant, I have two friends there in the High Springs office, one runs 50 hives and they both told me independently, that the #1 used mite control is Apivar.
So, lastely, I called my friend that is the State inspector and a commercial beek and honey packager. I asked him what the commercial go to was, and he said with out hesitation, Apivar.

So, I think in sampling 6 sources, all at some level of commercial bee keeping, migratory and locally, they all recommended I use Apivar. 
My2Cents


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> He pointed out that 1500 hives @ 2 minutes each is 3000 hours. 

Vaporizing 1500 hives @ 2 minutes each is 3000 _MINUTES_, which is 50 _hours_.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

1, Low mites, 2, good young Queens & 3, well fed hives. The 1,2,3 of beekeeping.

Keith, this is well stated. It can be this simple, but if I may add, timing is critical. Having the labor and know-how to know when these things need to be done will get you pretty far in this business...

Hope everyone's season is going well!


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

I would think spraying the bees with 50/50 bleach and water would kill the bees. I do put bleach in syrup with no ill effects.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Oxalic acid works great but I've found that without other management of mites before the broodless period when it would be dribbled, the treatment comes too late. I like to hit the mites just as soon as the honey supers are off in early August so that the hives have a chance to raise healthy winter bees. I found that to find practical ways to treat for mites with anything other than strips and to lead up to an OA treatment during the fall broodless period can be time consuming, fustrating, and might not always work or at least there are a number of things that could go wrong.

So this is why I've been using the apivar for the last 4 years. It's simple, effective, and to the point. Get the mite population out of the way so you can get to other important tasks like feeding, extracting, having a bbq, or innertubing down the river, whatever.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> >> He pointed out that 1500 hives @ 2 minutes each is 3000 hours.
> 
> Vaporizing 1500 hives @ 2 minutes each is 3000 _MINUTES_, which is 50 _hours_.


I stand corrected, TY


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

chillardbee said:


> . Get the mite population out of the way so you can get to other important tasks like having a bbq, or innertubing down the river, whatever.


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## KCWildman (Dec 20, 2010)

"commercial beeks are mixing chlorine into their syrup and they are spraying down their hives with a 50/50 solution of bleach and water to combat mites, going into the winter months."

Spraying the outside, or brood chamber? Is this a dribble treatment?


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

They are opening and spraying every frame in the brood chamber with a light mist. I sprayed a handful of bees the other evening, I check the next morning, and I did not see any dead. But, it did make them mad as heck when I sprayed them down.


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