# honey and diabeties



## Bg7mm

I love honey, but im a diabetic. before I look in other sources for info thought i'd ask here. im a beginner beekeeper and we'll have all the honey we want soon, am I about to go into a diabetic honey coma? again, I love honey . would anyone here know if a diabetic can eat honey? is honey the same sweet as say cane sugar which I cant eat. someone needs to invent a sugar excluder to lay along side the queen excluder


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## charmd2

Sugar is sugar is sugar. My husband is diabetic and is unmedicated. He strictly controls his diet by eating very low carbs. He can have no honey. I would say it is diet dependant.


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## jbeshearse

Look up diabetic in conjunction with Tupelo honey

http://www.diabeticconnect.com/diab...ral/14324-tupelo-honey-a-sweet-diabetic-treat

as always check with your doctor. 

The he fructose/sucrose percentages are different in Tupelo Honey and diabetics tolerate it better.​


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## Nabber86

jbeshearse said:


> Look up diabetic in conjunction with Tupelo honey
> 
> http://www.diabeticconnect.com/diab...ral/14324-tupelo-honey-a-sweet-diabetic-treat
> 
> as always check with your doctor.
> 
> The he fructose/sucrose percentages are different in Tupelo Honey and diabetics tolerate it better.​



I am am highly dubious about that link. I also strongly suggest that anyone who has any questions about honey/diabetes/sugar CONSULT your doctor.

EDIT: Do not follow this BS...
_
Tupelo honey which is a local Florida honey that doesn't crystallize because the sugar content of it is different from other raw honey's. He didn't know I am diabetic and he mentioned that it is a "safe" honey for diabetics._


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## deknow

Eric Dolphy was a great jazz saxophone/flutist....a deciple of coltrane.

He died (diabetic) because of lousy advice like this.


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## Slow Drone

My son is diabetic he says and his doctor says no honey absolutely no honey of any type. Seek the advice of your physician not from someone on the internet. Sugar is sugar no matter what type it is.


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## GSkip

Bg7mm said:


> I love honey, but im a diabetic. before I look in other sources for info thought i'd ask here. im a beginner beekeeper and we'll have all the honey we want soon, am I about to go into a diabetic honey coma? again, I love honey . would anyone here know if a diabetic can eat honey? is honey the same sweet as say cane sugar which I cant eat. someone needs to invent a sugar excluder to lay along side the queen excluder


Bg7mm

I'm live in the middle of "Tupelo Honey central"! I'm would not tell you to use any type of honey, even Tupelo honey but send me your info and I will send you a bottle of Tupelo honey (when my bees have made some) to take to your doctor and get his/her recommendation. My son is diabetic and is dependent on insulin. He does not eat any honey. We should pull some Tupelo early May. 

Greg
[email protected]


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## rwlaw

My wife is on oral medication for diabetes and she tried sugar vs honey. Her blood sugar counts were pretty much the same. She's a geriatric LPN so she knows her stuff.


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## jbeshearse

Slow Drone said:


> My son is diabetic he says and his doctor says no honey absolutely no honey of any type. Seek the advice of your physician not from someone on the internet. Sugar is sugar no matter what type it is.



Certainly seek leek your doctors advice, and e engage. If you are going to try anything, do so as you would test any poison, start with. Dry small amounts and judge the results before continuing. Look at this link, which I think is objective, does not support any benefits of Tupelo honey over other honey and notes positives and negatives of any honey use by diabetics. 

http://www.raysahelian.com/honey.html

also, even if you were to decide to try Tupelo honey, it is very difficult to be sure what you are purchasing is actually Tupelo honey. Source is highly dependent on proper beekeeping management, then testing. For a Hong to be certified as Tupelo, only 50% of the pollen count has to be tupelo pollen. Good Tupelo is above 90%


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## jbeshearse

deknow said:


> Eric Dolphy was a great jazz saxophone/flutist....a deciple of coltrane.
> 
> He died (diabetic) because of lousy advice like this.


I can find where Dolphy collapsed in a diabetic coma and died in the hospital. Differing accounts of where he collapsed and how he was treated at the hospital. But find no reference to "poor advice". His death was certainly untimely. Can you provide more info in the poor advice leading to his death? 

Diabetes is certainlybnot something to be played around with. A tough disease to live with day to day.


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## Oldtimer

Honey is around 80% sugar.

People can argue about the balance between fructose, sucrose, different honey types etc. But for a diabetic it is academic, honey will spike you. Have your tester ready, try it and see.


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## deknow

Sorry...I looked at the link, and looked up the 'study' cited wrt diabetics and honey. It is impossible to learn anything...their methods say the experimental group got honey and the control group didn't....but there is zero mention on dose. I can easily come up with a daily honey dose that would be too small to have an effect on diabetes.....and a homeopathic type might consider a '50x reduction ' of honey, which would be very unlikely to contain even a single sugar molocule.


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## deknow

Oldtimer said:


> Honey is around 80% sugar.
> 
> People can argue about the balance between fructose, sucrose, different honey types etc. But for a diabetic it is academic, honey will spike you. Have your tester ready, try it and see.


More to the point....if you subtract the sugars and water from the equation, all the other things that are touted as health benefits (proteons, bioflavinoids, etc) come up to about 1/2 of 1% of the weight. If I was looking for protein, eating honey is probably the least effective source I can think of.


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## Cabin

If only life were that simple. Diabetics have to control their blood sugar because their body does not. Some times their sugar gets too high and sometimes it gets too low. I have a coworker who uses honey syrup at home for those times when his sugar gets too low. It is just another sugar helpful when used at the right time.


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## deknow

jbeshearse said:


> I can find where Dolphy collapsed in a diabetic coma and died in the hospital. Differing accounts of where he collapsed and how he was treated at the hospital. But find no reference to "poor advice". His death was certainly untimely. Can you provide more info in the poor advice leading to his death?
> 
> Diabetes is certainlybnot something to be played around with. A tough disease to live with day to day.


Jazz stories do tend to gain a life of their own. ...but there are many accounts (including from Gil Evans if I remember correctly) that he had been diagnosed as diabetic, and some quack advised an almost all honey diet.


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## jbeshearse

deknow said:


> Sorry...I looked at the link, and looked up the 'study' cited wrt diabetics and honey. It is impossible to learn anything...their methods say the experimental group got honey and the control group didn't....but there is zero mention on dose. I can easily come up with a daily honey dose that would be too small to have an effect on diabetes.....and a homeopathic type might consider a '50x reduction ' of honey, which would be very unlikely to contain even a single sugar molocule.



I agree. As far as I am concerned, I feel that honey will be a better sweetener than table sugar for diabetics. The sucrose content is less and it is purported to be sweeter, so would take less to achieve the same level of sweetness that table sugar. But it is still sugar, no matter the ratios of fructose and sucrose. Treat it as you would any other sugar or carbohydrate.

And yes, once again, ask your Doctor. And get 2nd and 3rd opinions as a Dr. Can be just as wrong as anyone else.


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## deknow

If you think sucrose is the issue, then why not use a pure monsaccaride that has no sucrose?

I think tossing around uninformed speculations and links to documents that support such speculations (but are similarly uninformed in their basis for their claims) does more harm than good.


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## jbeshearse

deknow said:


> If you think sucrose is the issue, then why not use a pure monsaccaride that has no sucrose?
> 
> I think tossing around uninformed speculations and links to documents that support such speculations (but are similarly uninformed in their basis for their claims) does more harm than good.



I guess that the entire beesource site needs to be shut down due to uninformed speculations then. How many time have I heard claims made for allergy relief (unproven) small cell (unproven), etc. But I digress. I am not particularaly uninformed on this topic. I am particularly informed. Much more so than most, including most doctors. But that is beside the point. As someone else mentioned, take a little honey and test yourself, see what it does. 

I am not a doctor and cannot give medical advice. I was lazy on the link I provided, I typed tupelo honey and diabetics in google and provided the first link that popped up. There are many references, and yes they are at odds with each other. Different people react differently to the same stimulus. The only real way to know is to test it yourself. Honey will do no more harm to a diabetic that table sugar. Start there. Is there a benefit, only the individual can test and decide.

The largest problem with any study onTupelo verses regular honey is that they first must test the honey to insure that it is what it is purported to be. In the retail world, I would be hesitant to conclude that a honey is Tupelo, just because it is labeled as such. With that in mind, for the typical person, there is no way to know that you are getting Tupelo Honey, even if it is better tolerated by diabetics than other honeys. Therefore, it is better to treat it as you would any other honey unless you are 100% sure it is actually tupelo. And I would imagine that if you took the same amount of honey as you do table sugar, the blood sugar levels will be the same.


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## jbeshearse

deknow said:


> If you think sucrose is the issue, then why not use a pure monsaccaride that has no sucrose?


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3524617


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## psfred

Honey is a mixture of glucose and fructose with small amounts of sucrose and other sugars. It is chemically very similar to high fructose corn syrup, although it tastes much better.

Treat it like any other source of instantly absorbed sugar in your diet.

Peter


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## Sharpbees

My wife is diabetic and honey will spike her glucose leel ery quickly. Agave nectar has been a great sugar substitute for her. I even use it sometimes as it doesn't leave the bad taste that most sugar substitutes do.


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## deknow

> I was lazy on the link I provided, I typed tupelo honey and diabetics in google and provided the first link that popped up.


We've all done that at some time or another...the problem is (from my perspective) that you qualified the link as objective.


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## jbeshearse

deknow said:


> We've all done that at some time or another...the problem is (from my perspective) that you qualified the link as objective.



Point taken. Some of the testimonials on that site are way over the top. 

Whats the saying, "mileage will vary".


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## deknow

....it's worse than that....they cite 'science' as evidence that honey doesn't affect diabetics negatively, but the actual science (out of Iran) doesnt specify how much honey they consumed. ...might as well start telling people their epidermis is showing, or warn people about the dangers of dihydrogen oxate (or whatever Penn and Teller called water). This is science that is better suited for comedy.


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## Richard Cryberg

jbeshearse said:


> I agree. As far as I am concerned, I feel that honey will be a better sweetener than table sugar for diabetics. The sucrose content is less and it is purported to be sweeter, so would take less to achieve the same level of sweetness ....


This is just plain nuts and clearly illustrates you have zero clue about metabolism, nor what different sugars consist of. I would think anyone who took high school biology would have learned this stuff. Diabetics can not properly transport glucose across cell walls resulting in glucose building up in the blood to toxic levels. Sucrose (table sugar) is a disaccharide molecule formed from glucose plus fructose. Upon ingestion this disaccharide is very rapidly split into its monosaccharide components which are glucose plus fructose and those monosaccharides are what the body absorbs into the blood stream. Most nectar is mainly a sucrose solution which the bees gather and to which they add invertase and acid. The purpose of the invertase and acid is to split the sucrose into its monosaccharide components. Glucose is so easily absorbed you do not even need to swallow in. Just hold a solution in your mouth and the glucose will absorb into your body right thru the inner surfaces of your mouth. If your doctor tells you not to eat sugar do not bother wasting his time asking a dumb question like is honey OK? Honey is not OK and never will be. Honey is worse than eating sugar due to its faster entry into the blood stream.


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## Bg7mm

I appreciate all the info and advise given. The sole reason I had asked was someone had told me a diabetic could have honey. I found this bit of advise dubious. I'm on pills and insulin so yes it's bad. Hard to explain life of a diabetic to a non diabetic. I have a saying, the devil made diabetics. Today I'm fine. Tomorow I feel like I'm dying. On what has been discussed here I'll continue believing anything sweet, anything white as far as food goes. Stay away from it. I appreciate the advise from you all. Blessings to you all. 
Stay safe
Bud


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## jbeshearse

Richard Cryberg said:


> This is just plain nuts and clearly illustrates you have zero clue about metabolism, nor what different sugars consist of. I would think anyone who took high school biology would have learned this stuff.


Knowledge does not equate to wisdom. But you are entitled to your opinion, even when it is wrong. 

Cheers.


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## Bee Bliss

Worth reading these threads I have listed below. Also, read in the Honey Revolution books (one of which a medical doctor took part in writing and mentioned in the threads listed below), that if someone can eat an apple they can have a tablespoon* of honey instead. I saw blood sugar levels go down with a tablespoon* of honey.

The books suggest only 3 to 5 tablespoons* of honey maximum per day depending on activity level and spaced throughout the day. Many people can only take 1 tablespoon* 3x a day spread out during the day per the books.

However, this I will say. You alone are responsible for the path you take regarding the information in the books. Monitor your blood sugar levels with your machine just to make sure. Use caution. You could ask the doctor about doing this and keeping track of everything with his monitoring.

I know the dietician was very confused by the readings we presented her with and the accurate diet log to go with it. So, the reading results were NOT what they expected with the honey consumed. They said it should have gone up. It not only did not go up, it went down. She decided to ignore this and keep with her opinion.


http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...upport-a-diabetic-in-a-Post-Apocalyptic-Event

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304482-Beekeeping-and-the-Atkins-Diet

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?314145-Health-Benefits-of-Honey


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## EastSideBuzz

Slow Drone said:


> My son is diabetic he says and his doctor says no honey absolutely no honey of any type. Seek the advice of your physician not from someone on the internet. Sugar is sugar no matter what type it is.


I am a diabetic and I don't eat my honey I sell it. :shhhh:


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## hex0rz

Bg7mm said:


> I appreciate all the info and advise given. The sole reason I had asked was someone had told me a diabetic could have honey. I found this bit of advise dubious. I'm on pills and insulin so yes it's bad. Hard to explain life of a diabetic to a non diabetic. I have a saying, the devil made diabetics. Today I'm fine. Tomorow I feel like I'm dying. On what has been discussed here I'll continue believing anything sweet, anything white as far as food goes. Stay away from it. I appreciate the advise from you all. Blessings to you all.
> Stay safe
> Bud


Just out of curiosity, are you on any certain type of diet? I would assume you are unless you are shooting insulin like a heroin addict?


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## AHudd

I am a diabetic on 500 mg. of metformin, orally per day. Sugar, corn syrup, honey etc. will cause my sugar to spike. Honey "seems" to cause less of a spike than table sugar etc. I use honey in my diet. The test strips indicate the levels fall back to normal quicker with honey.
Diabetics on meds require carbs in our diets or the levels go to low. The trick is to maintain balance in your diet and activity. The meds help your body process the carbs you need to produce energy, but you don't want to consume more carbs than your dose of meds and activity level can process and use, or your sugar levels stay to high. Not enough carbs and it goes to low. It is a balancing act for sure.
I remain active, although I consider what I am capable of now, as piddling.
Normal Glucose levels depends on who you talk to. The numbers run from 80 to 150, so I shoot for 120, 1 to 2 hours after meals.
Everyone is different, find out what works for you. A wise man one said, "Everything in moderation."

Alex


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## Richard Cryberg

Blood glucose is all a diabetic has for short term measurement, assuming they are not so far out of balance they are making acetone. But, short term blood glucose is only a small part of the whole story. The other part is HA1C. If those numbers start going much over 6.0 regularly the person is going to have long term health issues. Issues such as blindness, peripheral neuropathy, artery disease potentially resulting in heart attacks or strokes and peripheral circulation issues that likely result in loss of toes, fingers, feet and lower leg. I have seen every one of these results in one patient who was not doing a good job of controlling his problem. How well you can do depends a great deal on the particular type of diabetes you have. Type 1 versus type 2 versus the other less common types all makes a big difference. In most respects the fully insulin dependent type 1s have an advantage over most type 2s in terms of long term health issues. So, just because you do not take insulin do not think you only have a mild case. You could not possibly be more wrong than to think that. My message is simple. Do not just go by blood glucose measurements and think you can cheat the system. Watch those H1AC measurements and if the results are not good you better change your life style or you will have health issues. Honey consumption will hurt H1AC results.


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## Nabber86

I don't understand why people with diabetes would want to eat honey. What are the benefits?


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## paintingpreacher

Why would anyone want to eat honey? Because it taste good! I am a diabetic of 40 years. On shots for 30 yrs now using an insulin pump. I have learned over the years what I should and should not eat. Some Drs will tell you no to honey while others will say its ok. I have learned over the years what works for me. Everyone is different. I can eat foods that my diabetic son cannot eat and vice versa. I love peanut butter and banana but it drives my sugar out of sight. My Diabetic Dr told me my body does not know the difference in a slice of bread and a snicker bar, sees both as sugar. I love honey also and have always eat a little. (Moderation is the key says my wife the nurse).
What hurts me is the buttered biscuit I put the honey on. I will shortly be 66 yrs old my last A1C was at 6.8 which my Dr was very pleased with. Drs always tell me, It is ok to have a little honey, or cake or ice cream, etc. just be sure and take care of it with your pump. IMO to each his own, you have to keep up with you numbers, take your shots and get PLENTY EXERCISE. Do what works for you, just saying for me there are many foods worse than honey. We need to enjoy life and so I do, and praise God for every day He gives me. Good luck to you.


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## Snaggy

Honey is still sugar. It has no fiber, protein or lipids, and almost no vitamins. You do get those from other carb sources like fruit/veg, beans, and whole grains. Honey and other sugars are empty calories, though honey does have benefits over sucrose. Honey certainly isn't good for diabetes except relative to sucrose. It won't improve diabetes.

It should be considered a better sweetener than sugar for diabetics, then consumed with great moderation. If you're even eating enough honey for the theoretical advantages over sucrose to matter, it's too much. Two tablespoons has as much sugar as a cola. That's close to 10% of the TOTAL daily carb recommendation, from ALL sources, in a single gulp.


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## AstroBee

This reference suggests that sugar and honey have some differences. It points to the glycemic index as being different between the two. What that means to diabetic, I have no clue. 

http://extension.arizona.edu/sites/extension.arizona.edu/files/pubs/az1577.pdf

Here's a reference on the breakdown of sugars in honey: 

http://beesource.com/resources/usda/honey-composition-and-properties/

On average honey is about 38.% Fructose and 31.3% Glucose


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## John Smith

At the end of the day, it comes down to whether or not one is able and willing to work it all out for himself/herself, or will s/he follow a doctor's advice. So much depends on which doctor, maybe one has many on the go, which person, we are all different, and how committed are we to following the plan.

I took a major turn in my health after reading The Hibernation Diet, and it was reinforced by The Honey Revolution. Dr. Fessenden's later book, Feed Your Brain First cemented my belief.

I went from being pre-diabetic to being clear again. But I keep getting older, so I have to keep off the factory sweeteners and use my good honey in preference. Honey is the preferred sweetener for diabetics, with perhaps the exception of those so far advanced with the diabetes that they cannot make changes. So far I have yet to meet a diabetic that live without food, and at the end of the day, we convert all foods mostly into glucose, as proteins are needed less as we age except for maintenance or body building if we insist.

Not many doctors will ratify the use of honey. So no use asking them! Maybe the older ones will, but fresh out of University.......... NO!


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## Lauri

I am not diabetic but stay from sugar anyway for better health over all.

I rarely eat honey, but when I do it's crystallized and on a spoon or a chunk of comb out in the field. Within minutes I can feed the warmth spreading through my veins. What a charge! There is no other sugar, dessert or candy I get this feeling from if I eat it. Only straight honey.

I can't imagine a diabetic eating honey in any amount, unless it was perhaps used as a baking ingredient mixed with protein to slow the absorption.


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## Nabber86

John Smith said:


> At the end of the day, it comes down to whether or not one is able and willing to work it all out for himself/herself, or will s/he follow a doctor's advice. So much depends on which doctor, maybe one has many on the go, which person, we are all different, and how committed are we to following the plan.
> 
> I took a major turn in my health after reading The Hibernation Diet, and it was reinforced by The Honey Revolution. Dr. Fessenden's later book, Feed Your Brain First cemented my belief.
> 
> I went from being pre-diabetic to being clear again. But I keep getting older, so I have to keep off the factory sweeteners and use my good honey in preference. Honey is the preferred sweetener for diabetics, with perhaps the exception of those so far advanced with the diabetes that they cannot make changes. So far I have yet to meet a diabetic that live without food, and at the end of the day, we convert all foods mostly into glucose, as proteins are needed less as we age except for maintenance or body building if we insist.
> 
> Not many doctors will ratify the use of honey. So no use asking them! Maybe the older ones will, but fresh out of University.......... NO!


Wait, I am confused. Are you a cancer guru, a diabetes guru, or both?


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## BadBeeKeeper

He has his 'own truth'. Anything you want can be true if you just 'believe' hard enough. Reality is irrelevant. If it doesn't work for you, it's your own fault, you just didn't believe hard enough.


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## Lburou

Tupelo honey makes my kool-Aid taste better. 

If I were diabetic, I'd be careful with all carbohydrates, especially honey. Advice from a diabetic educator would be the advice I'd follow, not someone selling a 'special' kind of honey, or any other (healthy) sweetener. Be careful of so called 'sugar free' treats and foods. When you look at the label, they will still contain carbohydrates.

Bg7mm, you won't go into a diabetic coma from too many carbs, it is caused by too few carbs. More sugar in your system than your body can process, (using your own insulin if you are making any), will result in more and more sugar in your blood. Those spikes or continuously high levels are what cause damage to your eyes, heart, etc..


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## Nabber86

BadBeeKeeper said:


> He has his 'own truth'. Anything you want can be true if you just 'believe' hard enough. Reality is irrelevant. If it doesn't work for you, it's your own fault, you just didn't believe hard enough.


I see. So if you get cancer or diabetes and can’t cure yourself, it is your own darn fault.


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## Vance G

I am fat and have type two diabetes. I take four metformin a day and try not to lick my fingers constantly when extracting. I eat honey on my cereal and pancakes. Then I don't eat anything else sugary or I get feeling funky. Everything has a cost and one can have a little but let your doctor and more importantly, your body direct you.


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## clyderoad

I have read The New Honey Revolution by Dr. Fessenden.
Many of the claims put forth here in this thread are contrary to his writings.
Honey metabolism in the body is not so simple according to Fessenden.
A pretty good reference section listing the studies he uses to form his opinions for those interested.


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## rolftonbees

I am pre diabetic, and try to watch my carbs. Honey is a mixture of carbs. Use diabetic references or a health educator to find the exchange information on honey. 

Personally I only typically use honey about once a month. Extraction day is a challenge because I enjoy cutting chunks of comb.

I ocassionally take about a spoonful worth if I find filled burr comb or bridge comb.

it tastes so much better out of the hive than froma jar.


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## Richard Cryberg

Honey is worse for a diabetic than sugar. At least with sugar your body must first hydrolyze it to fructose and glucose. With honey the bees already did the hydrolysis. So, if you are having an insulin over dose reaction honey is better than sugar as the glucose will absorb into your blood stream thru your cheeks and you do not even have to swallow it which is often a problem for someone with an insulin over dose. If you aspirate it into your lungs, which is fairly common under those circumstances, it will absorb thru your lungs just fine. I have lived with insulin dependent diabetics my whole life and have seen the results of not taking care of yourself and the results of taking care of your self. My brother was dead at age 45 because he did not care for himself (near blind, double amputee below the knee, horrid cardiovascular issues, peripheral nerve damage, kidneys shot, etc) and my son is 49 and has zero side effects of the diabetes because he has cared for himself. Both diagnosed under age ten.


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## AR1

psfred said:


> Honey is a mixture of glucose and fructose with small amounts of sucrose and other sugars. It is chemically very similar to high fructose corn syrup, although it tastes much better.
> 
> Treat it like any other source of instantly absorbed sugar in your diet.
> 
> Peter


Exactly. I'm a nurse, and every day deal with diabetic patients. Know your A1c score. Check your blood sugar levels 4 times a day or more. Learn what foods spike your sugar, and how much. Honey shouldn't be any worse than cake or candy or bread.

Lots of my patients are missing toes, or whole legs on occasion, because they didn't control their blood sugar. Many have excruciating neuropathy. Please don't be that person.


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## AR1

Lburou said:


> Tupelo honey makes my kool-Aid taste better.
> 
> Bg7mm, you won't go into a diabetic coma from too many carbs, it is caused by too few carbs. More sugar in your system than your body can process, (using your own insulin if you are making any), will result in more and more sugar in your blood. Those spikes or continuously high levels are what cause damage to your eyes, heart, etc..


Not always true. Diabetic ketoacidosis can lead to coma, and is caused by too much blood sugar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoacidosis

Too much and too little are both problems.


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## BadBeeKeeper

AR1 said:


> Exactly. I'm a nurse, and every day deal with diabetic patients. Know your A1c score. Check your blood sugar levels 4 times a day or more. Learn what foods spike your sugar, and how much. Honey shouldn't be any worse than cake or candy or bread.
> 
> Lots of my patients are missing toes, or whole legs on occasion, because they didn't control their blood sugar. Many have excruciating neuropathy. Please don't be that person.


Good to have experienced experts to weigh-in with facts to counter the woo-woo.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo


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## John Smith

If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.

Precisely! That's why it pays sometimes to take notice of healthy people rather than those who are always sick. 

No one is claiming that honey will grow a new toe or a new leg. No one is claiming that honey can reverse the life expectancy of someone already at deaths door. What McInnes and Fessenden are proclaiming, however, is that for those of us with still some strength and determination can use the good honey to normalise our metabolism and learn the advantages of 'Recovery Mode.' 

Honey does metabolise differently to factory syrups and sweeteners. Don't be so set in your previous mindset that you miss out on an opportunity to learn something. Get those books and read them. Read them again and again and educate yourselves as to how healthy people are staying healthy and not facing a slow and miserable failing of life's good times.

Honey actually helps us normalise our blood sugar levels. Yes, it will spike it a little, and more so in the earlier days of changing over to using honey exclusively, but it will not spike it out to the same extent if one persists, as it will actually set in motion that elusive 'Recovery Mode' so going forward in time, one will heal up the body and mind and eventually the diabetic condition can be healed, especially in the young, the determined and the not-yet-too-far-gone. Leave it until you are legless, and expect a miracle and disappointment may occur.

When the doctor declares that "You will be on this insulin for the rest of your life" he may be diagnosing your mindset and your lifestyle more so than the condition of your endocrine glands. From a commercial point of view, he has more to gain by teaching you the evils of High Blood Sugar than he has by teaching you the evils of Low Blood Sugar, as there is no effective product to sell you for that one. It is up to you and your diminishing health status to sort out the low blood sugar, and honey will be your friend for that if you let it.

Low blood sugar is always as dramatic as high blood sugar, and it is the dramatic swings that matter. This equates to what is known as the Metabolic Syndrome, and is one of the foundation conditions from which most of our chronic diseases spring, including, depression, low energy, insomnia, ulceration, and eventually of course, cancer. 

But for those who are determined to cling to old habits and refuse to change their mind, it is OK with their doctor and their friends who could have helped them prevent some of the rot, if they go ahead and write themselves off!

Admittedly we are not alone in the responsibility for modern living and the diseases it spawns, but if I let it get the better of me, it is ME who dies prematurely.


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## jonsl

I don't think anyone who isn't an MD specializing in diabetes should be making any claims about honey usage and the disease. Too many people are looking for an easy magic bullet to cure their ills.


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## John Smith

Dr. Fessenden is a retired General Practitioner, and knows his stuff! Read his books if you feel I am not reflecting his work effectively.

And don't be too proud to take a bit of notice of those who have succeeded in turning their diabetic state around. Remember? If you want to be healthy, watch what healthy people do!

There is nothing easy about making big changes, that is why the insulin is so appealing, it is easy (by comparison)!


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## John Smith

Sorry. I posted this twice.


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## clyderoad

John Smith said:


> Dr. Fessenden is a retired General Practitioner, and knows his stuff! Read his books if you feel I am not reflecting his work effectively.
> 
> And don't be too proud to take a bit of notice of those who have succeeded in turning their diabetic state around. Remember? If you want to be healthy, watch what healthy people do!
> 
> There is nothing easy about making big changes, that is why the insulin is so appealing, it is easy (by comparison)!


At the least, those who haven't read Fessenden's books, particularly The New Honey Revolution 2nd Ed., probably should so they understand from where you speak about his work. 
Heck, some may even learn a thing or two along the way!


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## Snaggy

clyderoad said:


> At the least, those who haven't read Fessenden's books, particularly The New Honey Revolution 2nd Ed., probably should so they understand from where you speak about his work.
> Heck, some may even learn a thing or two along the way!


The irony is the part where you said your doctor didn't want you to have normal sugars because he "couldn't sell you any products", and you know that because Dr Fessenden told you that in the books he sold you. LOL. You subscribe to his newsletter too? Does he sell supplements? Classic


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## clyderoad

Snaggy said:


> The irony is the part where you said your doctor didn't want you to have normal sugars because he "couldn't sell you any products", and you know that because Dr Fessenden told you that in the books he sold you. LOL. You subscribe to his newsletter too? Does he sell supplements? Classic


maybe you are confused, I never said anything like that.


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## John Smith

Snaggy said:


> ".....doctor didn't want you to have normal sugars....."


Now you are trying to put words in my mouth. That is NOT what I said, Snaggy. I said, ..."teaching you the evils of Low Blood Sugar..." I'm guessing you consider your blood sugar to be low when it is what I would call normal. 


I am referring to Low Blood Sugar as that point when the adrenaline and cortisol is required to keep the blood sugars at a level adequate for the brain's needs.


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## nchvac

Anyone know the calorie, carbs, sugar content, etc. of honey, or does it vary too much to have a standard average?


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## John Smith

From Wikipedia:
"""""Providing 64 calories in a typical serving of one tablespoon (15 ml)"""""

Honey is roughly 18 percent water, give or take. It can contain up 22% but beyond that it will ferment.

Variations are the norm, but still remain pretty much in these ranges. The small amount of ash, proteins etc., can pretty much be ignored when counting calories.

Compared to typical sweet confectionary and bakery goods, it would take a sickening amount of honey to match them.


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## Snaggy

John Smith said:


> Now you are trying to put words in my mouth. That is NOT what I said, Snaggy. I said, ..."teaching you the evils of Low Blood Sugar..." I'm guessing you consider your blood sugar to be low when it is what I would call normal.
> 
> 
> I am referring to Low Blood Sugar as that point when the adrenaline and cortisol is required to keep the blood sugars at a level adequate for the brain's needs.


I don't have much problem with your statement on low sugar. Low sugar does pose some problems, and some diabetics are on too much medicine.

I thought you were saying that a doctor would not be concerned about low sugar because there was no commercial gain in it. That's just silly, and it's a common theme from these internet gurus that talk about conspiracies by the AMA, drug companies or whatever, while they make money by selling books, newsletters and supplements.

Doctors are a quarrelsome bunch and no conspiracy like that would survive for long.

I'm an active doctor with 300 type 2 diabetics in my practice. As a diabetic, if you're eating so many sweetened foods that you'd actually benefit from the slightly different carb mix between honey and table sugar, you're eating too much sugar.


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## John Smith

Let's agree on one point, Snaggy. It is no more or no less a crime nor a virtue for me to sell honey, Dr. Fessenden to sell books and you to sell medical services. It is simply part of our free market culture. I have no knowledge of Dr. Fessenden selling supplements, but he does give diabetes patients a complete coverage of information on how to beat the Metabolic Distress Syndrome, of which obesity and diabetes are but single examples amongst a host of others.

I would love to hear that you have 'The Honey Revolution" books in your waiting room, and that you personally are promoting honey as the answer to our sweetener oriented health crisis. Indeed, and that you also recommend honey for Low Blood Sugar, and teach your patients how to recognise which side of the big sugar swings they are experiencing in the moment. But alas, the tone of your remarks would indicate that you are as much against what is called alternative medicine and the shock jocks who promote their vitamins and elixrs as they are against mainstream medicine. Such is the state of things.

I am firmly onside with natural healing, and totally averse to the drug cultures, whether medicinal, recreational or agricultural and to some extent industrial. We are all over-drugged somehow, even if only with caffeine. But alcoholocis can simply quit! Smokers can do the same, but overeaters cannot simply quit. They have to learn to master their appetites and habits, rectify their chemistry and continue living a healthy lifestyle, despite still occasionally indulging in the surfeit of our times.

Honey stands out strongly against all medicaments as useful in defending ourselves from the traps of luxurious living. Honey used correctly normalises appetite and blood sugar levels. Those two points alone should prompt you to encourage your hundreds of patients to favor honey in their diet as a replacement for other sweeteners. In the longer term, honey curbs the appetite for all sweets, including honey itself, so there is every reason to use it.

Perhaps you can tell me how you view the reason modern medicine fails to inform us of the evils of Low Blood Sugar. And how is it that honey is not prescribed as the best medicine for it?

In his book, "HONEY, The Gourmet Medicine" Mr. Joe Traynor tells us that honey is the medicine without a profit margin! 

I realize that if we got all your customers onto honey effectively, they would probably not need any more Insulin, and if they were half as aware of what Low Blood Sugar is doing to their long term health as what High Blood Sugar is doing to them immediately you would need to get new clients. Unless, of course, you sold them one of Dr. Fessenden's books and gave them a jar of your honey................... I am assuming you do keep a few bees, but probably give your honey away for the joy of it, whereas I being a commercial producer have this satanic need to charge them small amounts of money for it. You needen't at all to worry about the theoretical loss of your clientel, as only a percentage of them would have the resolve to completely heal themselves, but you would be so highly recommended by them to the world at large, that you would be overcome with new patients.

Your only problem then, would be the distance that would increase between you and your peers in the industry. You would then stand out in the minds of everyone who seeks healing along side Dr. Fessenden and the upcoming generation of Doctors who embrace natural healing modalities.

It strikes me that you critique Dr. Fessenden and his work having never yet read the book throughly. Yet he is one of your peers, a group you might accuse me of being antagonistic towards.

You seem to be eager to defend and contest, so please allow me to add one more challenge: If and when honey (Medicinal Grade?) is available on prescription only, how would you respond to that in the treatment of your patients?" I continue to assume that you would play the game, as there would be official support for it. Or would you continue to play down the damage done by Low Blood Sugar for fear of being seen to be profit seeking?

You used the phrase: ".....slightly different carb mix between honey and table sugar.'''''" There is nothing 'slight' about the difference between honey and other sweeteners. Don't attempt to play down the dramatic results your patients can experience if they REPLACE their excessive intake of sweeteners (and all carbs) with real honey. The simple reason that their brain is starving to death amidst that abundance of glucose is the point you are missing. If you want to be an effective healer as opposed to just dispensing computer recommendations, you need to Read Thoroughly the books in question.

If you are a beekeeper as well, I suspect you are sharp enough to step up a notch or two on what you learned in University. It will revolutionise your understanding of humanity's dilemma.



A few remarks in response to your earlier posts:

No, I do not subscribe to Dr. Fessenden's newsletter................ does he publish one? He sends me notes on book sales and specials occasionally, but at no charge for the flyer.

A conspiracy can only exist if the common intent is illegal. Legalise the intended actions and no conspiracy exists.


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## CindyMas

Honey has a high percentage of sugar, I believe that it would not be advisable for a diabetic person.


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## John Smith

Only problem I see with that, Cindy, is that diabetics like all the rest of us cannot survive without glucose in our blood!


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