# Lemongrass oil vs. Lemon Pledge??



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

I have heard some people will use lemon scented pledge instead of/in place of lemongrass oil. Does anyone have any experience with this??


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

I hope you are joking. You would put furniture polish into a bee hive? Are you nuts?
This is from the Ingredients listing of "Lemon Pledge"



> Ingredient: HYDROTREATED HEAVY NAPHTHA (PETROLEUM); (ISOPARAFFINIC
> HYDROCARBON SOLVENT)
> Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
> Percent: 20
> ...


----------



## daknoodle (Dec 8, 2005)

I would agree with Peter, but I have also heard of people using pledge for this purpose. Its all about what you want to put into your bees. I personally would stick to the real stuff.


----------



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

I keep a can of lemon pledge next to the rip saw when cutting bee shook. 
Lubricates and keeps pitch from building up.
I have been told I am nuts yes.


----------



## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

peterloringborst said:


> I hope you are joking. You would put furniture polish into a bee hive? Are you nuts?
> This is from the Ingredients listing of "Lemon Pledge"


I wouldn't throw Kn under the bus. He was just asking about something he had heard. It is an old school tatic. Yes it does work, but no I wouldn't use it. For reasons Peter metioned.


----------



## concrete-bees (Jun 20, 2009)

WOW --- just look at the price of pledge -- 7.50 a bottle and then look at the price of 1 oz of LGO - under $4 --

and trust me 1 oz goes a LONG LONG LONG ways 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=lemongrass+oil

order from here and leave the chemicals at the Walmart!!!!!!!


----------



## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

I never heard of it nor would I use pledge in or around my hives.


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

concrete-bees said:


> WOW --- just look at the price of pledge -- 7.50 a bottle and then look at the price of 1 oz of LGO - under $4 --
> 
> and trust me 1 oz goes a LONG LONG LONG ways
> 
> ...


Go to whole foods and get it it is way cheaper then the 4 bucks an ounce and it goes along way and no shipping.


----------



## concrete-bees (Jun 20, 2009)

yeah - i thought about it but i never go there - Super Suppliments might even have it - but i bought it from amazon with no shipping - 

i put that link incase someone didnt have any local area to go to - but just do yourself a favor and dont use Pledge --


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

Oh I would not think of spraying that on my bees...I don't even use it in my house. I use orange oil on furniture. I had heard of some beeks using it and was just curious.


----------



## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

As long as LGO is so cheap compared to the amount you need, there should be no reason to use anything else unless it's more efficient.

I am a hobbyist, and have bought 10 ml (1/3 oz) that should last for 40-50 swarm-traps/new hives. I doubt I will use it all before it expires.


----------



## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

I suppose the next step would be to use Easy-Off Lemon-scented oven cleaner in your hives. :scratch:


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Don't laugh! It took me decades to realize the best way to clean bee glue off of hive tools and smokers _IS_ oven cleaner!


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Lemon grass oil does little for cleaning up and polishing dusty swarm traps.

Wayne


----------



## afss (Mar 19, 2009)

i don't think i'd put it in hives but when i needed to attract my girls to a new water source (not my neighbors pool) i sprayed lemon pledge into the air and on the grass around the buckets i put water out in. 
With in a minute i had bees coming to it and with in a day they had stoped going to the neighbors pool and had taken to the new water sources. i would have tryed the oil but i didn't have any and had pledge in the house


----------



## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I have seen the pledge trick used similarly to the lemon grass oil trick in that it is not used to coat or treat the wood interior.

Instead, spray some cotton balls with the lemon pledge and the place said cotton balls in a zip lock baggy and poke tiny (smaller than a bee) holes with a fork or toothpick at the "empty" end of the baggie. that allows the scent to be released without the chemicals being permanently applied.

That's the way I've seen it done anyway.

Big Bear


----------



## Chick (May 21, 2009)

Like Hambone, I probably would not use it, for the reasons listed by peter. But, if I could not get LGO or regular swarm lure, I might, if I was in a bind. But heck, the guy just asked a question. Thats no reason to cut loose the dogs of war on him.


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Yes, I have heard of people using a squirt of Lemon Pledge in their swarm traps. It is supposed to last for one month before you need to give the swarm trap another squirt, whereas a couple drops of lemongrass oil should remain effective for 3 months.


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

Thanks Chick. I'm sure Peter just "misunderstood" my question. I read a post by Peter yesterday where he seemed to be pretty misunderstood and was being dogged pretty bad IMO. However, his response to me was very similar to the rude response he received yesterday. (BTW, I'm not a guy)


----------



## jesuslives31548 (May 10, 2008)

hmmm, wonder how many knock the idea but tried it out and refused to be honest. Just a thought. It sure has alot of bad things listed on the can, I'm glad the mite strips folks use are so much safer................


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Look folks, it is illegal to put things into the hive that are not approved for beehive use. The only exception would be approved food additives, such as essential oils. 

Personally, I would not experiment even with these. Many essential oils are safe by the droplet but very toxic in larger quantities. Wintergreen oil, thymol, these are examples of natural products that are dangerous in concentration. 

Putting furniture polish into hives is not the nuttiest thing I have heard but it gets close. This stuff is made from petroleum products which are toxic to insects. By the way, check the news reports:



> U.S. Marshals seize Beehive Botanicals products
> 
> U.S. Marshals stung a Wisconsin manufacturer that claimed bee-derived drugs held the cure for a number of medical conditions, the Food and Drug Administration said on Monday.
> 
> Federal agents seized creams, capsules, tablets, gum, throat spray and shampoos from Hayward, Wis.-based Beehive Botanicals Inc. last week after the company claimed its products could treat or prevent asthma, dermatitis, ulcers, cancer, liver or kidney disease, insomnia, bone fractures and skin disorders.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Did the Feds get their Snake Oil too.
Ernie


----------



## JP (Jul 10, 2005)

Why is there even a discussion about putting LMO or lemon pledge for that matter in an active colony?

LGO or lemon pledge is used to mimic nasanov. Bees use it to orient to a new location, or help other bees locate a new water source.


...JP


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

> Why is there even a discussion about putting LMO or lemon pledge for that matter in an active colony?


Yes, well, I agree with you. But haven't you heard about "Honey Bee Healthy"? It's all the rage right now. And people are all trying to batch together their own knock-offs.


----------



## JP (Jul 10, 2005)

peterloringborst said:


> Yes, well, I agree with you. But haven't you heard about "Honey Bee Healthy"? It's all the rage right now. And people are all trying to batch together their own knock-offs.


Yes, I am very familiar with it. The rage, I believe with HBH was about 3-4 yrs ago wasn't it?



...JP


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Well, I have heard elsewhere that beekeepers all over are using it and swearing by it, or trying to make cheap knockoffs. Go to Bee-L, they discuss it there.

I have spent the last six months researching the role of subtle odors in the internal communication and organization of insect colonies. I have written a series of articles on plant odors, phermones, and honey bees which should be in the Bee Journal soon. I won't dump strong smelling stuff in my hives any more, knowing what I know now. (exception: a few light puffs of smoke to settle the girls down).


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

peterloringborst said:


> Look folks, it is illegal to put things into the hive that are not approved for beehive use. The only exception would be approved food additives, such as essential oils.
> 
> Personally, I would not experiment even with these. Many essential oils are safe by the droplet but very toxic in larger quantities. Wintergreen oil, thymol, these are examples of natural products that are dangerous in concentration.
> 
> Putting furniture polish into hives is not the nuttiest thing I have heard but it gets close. This stuff is made from petroleum products which are toxic to insects. By the way, check the news reports:


U.S. Marshals seize Beehive Botanicals products

U.S. Marshals stung a Wisconsin manufacturer that claimed bee-derived drugs held the cure for a number of medical conditions, the Food and Drug Administration said on Monday.

Federal agents seized creams, capsules, tablets, gum, throat spray and shampoos from Hayward, Wis.-based Beehive Botanicals Inc. last week after the company claimed its products could treat or prevent asthma, dermatitis, ulcers, cancer, liver or kidney disease, insomnia, bone fractures and skin disorders. 

* I don't know what this has to do with putting anything in a hive. This new story speaks of products PEOPLE are using on themselves that are supposedly bee derived. I can also do as I please with my bees here in Missouri. Peter, you are way to literal. I posted a simple question asking if anyone has any experience with it. Did I ask if someone sprays their hives down in it? NO! You jumped to conclusions and frankly you are making yourself look like a jerk. I'm sure you can be helpful and do have knowledge to share about bee keeping but you should rethink the way in which you want to present that and share it.


----------



## Chick (May 21, 2009)

Peter, can you show me proof that it is against the law to use lemon pledge for swarm attractant, in Texas?


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Chick said:


> Peter, can you show me proof that it is against the law to use lemon pledge for swarm attractant, in Texas?


Nope


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

> Look folks, it is illegal to put things into the hive that are not approved for beehive use. The only exception would be approved food additives, such as essential oils.




Is there a national beehive approval agency that determines what is bee-safe and can be put into a hive? Like the FBA (Food and Bee Administration)? Do they have a seal of approval or something?


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Nabber86 said:


> Is there a national beehive approval agency that determines what is bee-safe and can be put into a hive? Like the FBA (Food and Bee Administration)? Do they have a seal of approval or something?


EPA. Environmental Protection Agency. 

Basically, if it isn't in the bee catalogs, for sale, it _probably_ isn't legal. With the exception I mentioned: approved food additives. Nothing to prevent you from adding _vanilla_ to your honey, your wax, or your beehives. 

Still maybe not a good idea. Just because something isn't illegal, doesn't follow that it's _safe_. Also, there are plenty of laws in the Nanny State which make things "illegal" that are nobody's business but yours. 

My chief point is that if you put stuff in your hive that is not permitted and then somebody gets sick from your honey, you are ripe for a lawsuit. Good luck!


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

The EPA _*regulates*_ or in some other way *approves* what you can put in a beehive? Or somehow the "bee catalogs" have some kind of regulatory powers?

Your'e making this stuff up, right?. 




:lookout:


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Nabber86 said:


> The EPA _*regulates*_ or in some other way *approves* what you can put in a beehive? Or somehow the "bee catalogs" have some kind of regulatory powers?


Yes, all pesticides are regulated by EPA, and the catalogs only carry approved chemicals, so you can assume that if they are carrying it, it is approved. 

If it isn't in there it is also reasonable to assume it is not approved, since they are in business to make money and will sell anything anybody wants.

I worked for bee supply company for many years, and I was a NY State Licensed Pesticide Applicator for years as well. I was required to be licensed by NY State because I was applying legal chemicals on bees at a University. 

I was required to know the Federal Regs and the State Reg. I was required to keep a log of every time and every place I used RoundUp, Apistan, CheckMite, PDB crystals, and so on. Required to file and keep the records.

Ordinary beekeepers do not need to be licensed to use these products, nor keep records. But they should know the laws, and follow them. Otherwise you (YOU) are dead to rights.

And no, I am not making this stuff up


----------



## clarkfarm (Apr 13, 2009)

Laying aside the issue of how most politely to state a view on this forum, I agree with Peter's main point. There are obviously people on this forum who believe that its okay to put things into a bee hive unless it can be proven that its unsafe or illegal. Another way to look at it is that nothing should be put into a bee hive that is not absolutely necessary regardless of where anyone has proved the safety of it or whether its illegal or not. A recent study that was sent out by my bee association on CCD showed that the chemicals that were found in beeswax included pesticides that are used legally in hives for mites, etc. They were looking for Bayer, crop type pesticide residue and were concerned that what they found were residues of things the beekeeper put it there on the wrongful thought that because they're legal they do not contaminate the honey/wax.

Yes, you can "do what you want with your bees" but that is not really the issue. Nor is the reasonableness of governmental regulation the issue. The issue is what we as beekeepers on our own initiative should be doing with our bees for the long term health of all bees and for the safety of the honey we eat or give or sell to others. I think Florida is one state that has basically endorsed Peter's point about being strict concerning what can goes in a hive. I'm sure if I'm wrong about this, Florida beekeepers will jump on me. Cheers. Susan


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

This is from the CheckMite Label:


> For Use Only Under Section 18 Authorization
> For Control of Varroa Mites and Small Hive Beetles in Honeybee Colonies
> For use only as authorized by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
> (EPA) under section 18 of F.I.F.R.A. This labeling must be in the possession of the user
> ...


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Of course the EPA regulate the use of pesticides. That's not what my questioning was about. FWIW, Lemon Pledge is not a pesticide, therefore it is not regulated by the EPA.

You specifically said,


> Look folks, it is *illegal to put things into the hive that are not approved for beehive use*. The only exception would be approved food additives, such as essential oils.


This statement is misleading and untrue. While the EPA regulates all kinds of chemicals (very few of which happen to be pesticides) for all kinds of reasons, the EPA does not "approve things for beehive use". Nor does any governing body, aside from some yet to be named State which may have some vague regulations that have yet to be cited in this forum. If you replace the word "things" with "pesticides" and deleted the reference to "beehive use", then the statement would be true.

I cant but plutonium in my hive because that would get me in trouble with the NRC and the DHS among others, but that doesnt mean that these government agencies keep a list of approval for things that they deem to be "beehive safe"


----------



## Batman (Jun 7, 2009)

I had a nuc with frames on my side yard that I have been putting some drops of LGO in every 2 to 3 weeks or so. I can't say the LGO worked, because that hive is still empty and I have a swarm on the side of my house. I left that one where it was, put another nuc that I scooped a bunch of the swarm into right next to the cluster and a few drops of LGO on the porch of that nuc and a few inside. The queen must be under my tile of the roof, because last night when i came home, the cluster was still on the house and not in the hive. So right now the score is: LGO 0 - house 2

Craig


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is responsible for registering or licensing all pesticides used in the United States under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA). 

FIFRA requires that EPA register pesticides for specific uses, provided that the use does not pose an unreasonable risk to human health or the environment, when used according to label restrictions. Any pesticide sold or distributed in the United States must be registered by EPA. 

It is illegal to use a pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its product label, which must be approved by the Agency during the registration process. Places or establishments where pesticides are produced or formulated are also subject to registration. 

In addition, EPA sets tolerances or maximum legal limits for pesticide residues in food commodities and animal feed under the FFDCA. The purpose of the tolerance program is to ensure a reasonable certainty of no harm to consumers from pesticide residues in food.

The proper use of regulated products in production, handling, and processing promotes human, cultured organism, and environmental safety; ensures, to the greatest extent possible, the effectiveness of the products used; reduces overuse, expense, and possible undesirable side effects; and prevents harmful and illegal residues in edible products available for human consumption. Food safety and quality are critical factors that influence the long-term development and economic competitiveness of all food production.

Public perception of the safety of food is also very important. Through the proper use of regulated products, the U.S. aquaculture industry can benefit while ensuring public trust and consumer confidence in the safety of U.S. products in domestic and international markets.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

> Of course the EPA regulate the use of pesticides. That's not what my questioning was about. FWIW, Lemon Pledge is not a pesticide, therefore it is not regulated by the EPA.


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

> In the United States, the EPA approves the use of pesticides and sets tolerances. An illegal pesticide residue is one that is above the tolerance allowed by the EPA for the product or is one where _no tolerance has been established_ for the specific food/pesticide combination.


Plain English: it is illegal to use substances that have not been tested and approved by the EPA.


----------



## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

If I go over to a friend of mines house that is a beekeeper and I see him using something like pledge in hives. Can I make a citizens arrest? I’m gonna start carrying a tazer.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

peterloringborst said:


> Plain English: it is illegal to use substances that have not been tested and approved by the EPA.


WRONG again. I think the problem we have here is a lack of a good understanding of "Plain English" and general confusion amongst the following terms: 


pesticides
chemicals
things
substances

Again, try substituting the term "pesticides" for the term "substances" and your statement above may have some truth to it.

Question. Have any of the following substances been tested and approved by the EPA?: 


dihydrogen monoxide
a mixture of approxaimate 70% N2, 20% O2, and a few ppm trace gasses
A sweet yellowish or brownish viscid fluid produced by various bees from the nectar of flowers and used as food.
 surcrose, glucose, and fructose

Google and cut-n-paste away my friend!


----------



## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Original question:


knpeterson said:


> I have heard some people will use lemon scented pledge instead of/in place of lemongrass oil. Does anyone have any experience with this??


I would not try this. As posted it appears to have solvents. A solvent is a chemical used to disolve other substances (usually petroleum based). It works by disolving the subtance and then evaporating (this is how paint, varnish, lacquer, etc. dries).
This explains why it removes the build up on blades... it disolves the tars/saps.

Oven cleaner is basically the same thing. It could technically be used as a paint stripper.

"Orange Oil" furniture polish doesn't normally contain any real orange oil - if it did the cost would go up every time florida has a frost.

All of these subtances will most likely kill bees or any insect - if you ever used these substances in a small closed room you probably got a "buzz" from the solvents they contain.

Mike


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

I don't consider Pledge furniture polish a solvent. If it was it would strip my furniture instead of shining it. Easy off, yes would would be a solvent...it is an oven solvent and much more noxious than pledge.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

FWIW - Oven cleaners (i.e. Easy Off) are typically classified as caustics rather than solvents. NaOH (the active chemical) is a strong base and can dissolve organic matter, but it is not a "solvent" in a chemistry sense, such as polar and non-polar and organic solvents. When mixed with water (the other main ingredient in oven cleaner) NaOH is the solid and water is the "solvent". 

Solvents arent necessarily bad either. Dihydrogen Monoxide is commonly referred to as the "Universal Solvent". How bad is that?


----------



## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Just to clarify, when I mentioned "what's next...Easy-Off lemon-scented oven cleaner?"...it was a _joke_. I would hope _no one_ would ever even _think_ about putting oven cleaner in their hives!


----------



## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

I don't care to argue it. I simply was trying to give some information - people can take what they want of it.

Solvents will only disolve the substance it is compatible with - thus alcohol will not disolve lacquer but will shellac.
Paint strippers are composed of many types of solvents. Your oven cleaner is also. if you do not think strippers/solvents can be classified as caustic you may be interested to know lye is used very often in "cheaper" stripping - or those that are needed to remove resistant coatings.
Water is used in many "water-based" products but other solvents are included to make them compatible with water.

Put water on polyurethane/lacquer/shellac/varnish or even on "water-based" finishes once dried and you will find out how universal it is as a solvent.

Mike


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Peter, 
Are you licensed to practice law? You seem to be making a LOT of legal determinations about other people's activities...and unless you are licensed to practice law, THAT is illegal. (Practicing law was one activity the King of England never granted to American colonists.)

I don't know about your part of the world, but here in the Constitutional Republic of America, it is legal to do things unless they are expressly prohibited.

And if your argument is based upon honey becoming contaminated and someone getting sick, I hate to state the obvious that many people keep bees for reasons other than honey production.


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

:applause:


----------



## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=19001013

Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent 
Water 007732-18-5 60-100 
Mineral oil, white 008042-47-5 1-5 
Polydimethylsiloxanes (Silicon oil) 063148-62-9 1-5 
Naphtha, petroleum, hydrotreated heavy 064742-48-9 0.5-1.5 

Nothing like some silicon oil and naptha to put a shine on those little ladies.

That's the pump, how about the wipes? :doh:


----------



## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> Peter,
> Are you licensed to practice law? You seem to be making a LOT of legal determinations about other people's activities...and unless you are licensed to practice law, THAT is illegal. (Practicing law was one activity the King of England never granted to American colonists.)
> 
> I don't know about your part of the world, but here in the Constitutional Republic of America, it is legal to do things unless they are expressly prohibited.
> ...


For some reason, folks seem to get very riled up when confronted with facts. I don't make any of this stuff up and have backed up everything I have said with references. My knowledge of the laws regarding putting things into hives is based upon 10 years working for NY State, first as a research Apiarist and then as a bee inspector. We were required to know and to follow the law. And to change our recommendations as the laws changed. 

I made the statement that the Bee Supply companies know the laws and follow them. Somebody said did I think the Bee Supply companies regulate hive products. No. That is not what I said. I said that it is their business to know the laws and follow them, so you can use that information to determine what is and is not appropriate to put in your hives. This is from the Mann Lake Catalog:



> Why doesn't Mann Lake Ltd. sell essential oils?
> 
> For the safety of beekeepers, bees and the purity of honey, Mann Lake sells only items that have been thoroughly tested and then approved for use in beehives by the US government. At the present time, no essential oil treatments have been approved for mite control.


Insofar as keeping bees and not selling honey, I have had bees for 35 years and it is pretty hard to avoid accumulating large amounts of honey. Sooner or later you will be giving it away or selling it. Why would you risk contaminating food? On the one hand people are alarmed about the presence of commercial pesticides in their food supply and on the other, you have folks dumping all sorts of bizarre stuff into bee hives. Lemon Pledge, for God's sake! 

Insofar as practicing the law goes, that's silly. If I tell you there is a speed trap in the next town and you better go slow, is that giving legal advice? If I ask my neighbor not to burn garbage in a barrel and politely point out that it is illegal, am I practicing law? If I tell you that the laws prohibits putting unapproved chemicals in or on food crops or livestock, am I guilty of practicing law? Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

You may not agree with a law, that's one thing. I don't agree with most of the laws governing private matters. But laws regarding food safety are for the most part sensible. Let's just say you are free to dump anything you like into the hives. You could put rat poison in the bottom to keep the mice out, flea collars on the frames to kill mites (I have seen this one), mothballs in the supers, whatever you can dream up. 

That simply is not how it is. There is an approval process and there are substances that are approved. There are approved miticides, and ones that are not approved even though they may be "safe" and even approved in other states or countries. Then there are exempt products, GRAS food additives (Generally Recognized As Safe). 

Then there are all the other things. Like furniture polish. For a real interesting read, I recommend:



> A Consumer's Dictionary of Food Additives, 7th Edition: Descriptions in Plain English of More Than 12,000 Ingredients Both Harmful and Desirable Found in Foods (Paperback) by Ruth Winter, M.S.


She writes about the Delaney Amendment to FDA Law, 1958, which requires food additives to be tested and approved. The consumer has the right to know what is in honey. Don't put non approved stuff in your hives!


----------



## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

I think Ya'll have gotten a little off subject. The question was about spraying lemon pledge in an empty bait hive verses lemongrass oil. The question was not about spraying pledge or oven cleaner in a hive of bees making honey.

I have seen post where people said they used pledge also. If its safe to spay on my kitchen table I don't think it would be a problem to spray on entrance of empty hive.

Just my 2 cents.

Johnny


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

Johnny, you hit the nail on the head. Thanks!


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

> That simply is not how it is. There is an approval process and there are substances that are approved. There are approved miticides, and ones that are not approved even though they may be "safe" and even approved in other states or countries. Then there are exempt products, GRAS food additives (Generally Recognized As Safe).


Hey Peter, 

I am having problems with my Googling research skills and I thought that maybe since you are so knowledgeble in this field you could help me out.

I want to increase my beehives this season and I am trying to decide on a swarm lure to use. I checked the big three suppliers (Brush Mnt., M. Lake, D'dent) and found several offerings for swarm lures. Among these, products called "Bee Charm", "Swarm Lure", and "Swarm Catch". Can you tell me which of these products have been tested and approved for use in beehives? I dont want to get hauled off by the Feds, so an actual EPA referecnce is needed so that I can be certain that I am not breaking the law. 

Thanks, 

Paul


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

:waiting:


----------



## Chick (May 21, 2009)

Peter, why are you taking this so personal? They just asked if lemon pledge worked. No one asked for a personal attack, or to be dressed down with a hundred ifs, ands, & buts, along with your knowledge of New York laws. Stick to the subject, which is does lemon pledge work?

Is there a moderator in the house?


----------



## Chick (May 21, 2009)

Nabber86 said:


> Hey Peter,
> 
> I am having problems with my Googling research skills and I thought that maybe since you are so knowledgeble in this field you could help me out.
> 
> ...


Paul, All of the lures work, just depends on how much you want to pay. Most of the lure manufactures mix lemon grass oil with the other ingredients. Mann Lake has 2 ampules in a envelope, one of which is lemon grass oil. I doubt if anyone is going to arrest you. Perhaps Peter can give us some facts of arrest made of beekeepers using prohibited lures? Uh oh, I'm off subject now, but the post was off subject too. Sorry! :no:


----------



## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

I would just use a few drops of lemongrass oil in a swarm lure box. It's bee attracting ability is well known, it's bound to be less full of weird chemicals than Lemon Pledge, and it's not expensive. A tiny bottle will last a long time.


----------



## devdog108 (May 7, 2009)

Everyone has their own opinions, and yes there is a difference, but i have to wonder for those who oppose. If you are treating with hard chemicals, is there that much of a difference in spraying a cotton ball with lemon pledge and placing it in a baggie and poking pin holes in it? Its not like its contamination anything........ITS IN THE BAG, and once the swarm takes residence, you arent going to leave it. You wouldn't leave the hard chems in either.......Point being, to each his own......yes...i know, its just as easy to get the oil, but still.....


----------



## Chick (May 21, 2009)

Good point devdog.


----------



## jesuslives31548 (May 10, 2008)

and to top it off we blow smoke in the hive with a smoker....... I think some folks got a little upset here. It has been fun reading each comment thats posted. I have a thought here and I think I will be very accurate with it. Will everyone that posted on this topic state the number of hives you manage. Then I will explainmy reason for asking. Oh will the cheap dollar store lemon pledge work jsut as good???? hahah


----------



## devdog108 (May 7, 2009)

i remember the smoke inthe hive post, now that was funny......sure, manage 4 and had i been able to convice my wife otherwise, i was gonna get about 5 from you......got shot down when we were in Saint Augustine.....LOL. dang vacations.


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

I think the best thing to do would be to let this drop. Lets just let it move on down the list.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

*Lemongrass oil vs. Lemon Pledge vs. Glade*

This is going to become a classic thread... 

It will go away but it will resurface just like the... 

Get ready!

Drum Roll...

t:

"cow urine varroa treatment". 

In reference to the CUVT a member recently said:


> Sounds crazy to me.


In 2007 someone said:


> I find this stuff in India a bit hard to swallow


And in 2005...


> Drinking cow urine does have some really good medicinal benefits


*In 2005 the use of "Glade" was discussed.*



> I will try the Glade...what the heck! Can't hurt!





> Is there any particular fragrance of Glade you recommend?





> You don't soak the bees with the Glade,


Not soaking the bees with Glade sounds like good advice to me...


----------



## knpeterson (May 18, 2009)

OMG!!:lpf: Cow urine?? I hadn't heard that one or about the Glade. I have about 60 head of cows I could follow around with a bucket. However, I don't have any Glade just Febreeze, will that work? LOL!!!:lpf: I'm glad I can contribute.


----------

