# stethoscope type



## tnmtn (May 27, 2016)

Nurse here. Single sided is good enough. Any cheap stethoscope ought to be good enough. But I've never done it. I'm waiting to see bees flying when it's warm enough.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I use a stethoscope and it works great for checking the hives during winter, the following is a quote from HomeHealthMedical.com 

http://blog.homehealthmedical.com/2012/07/dual-versus-single-head-stethoscopes/
"The popular dual-head stethoscope is more versatile, as each side focuses on different sound frequencies. The bell or cup side is used to listen to the low-frequency lung sounds. Turn the scope over and you can listen to the high-frequency heart sounds via the flat side of the scope".

All you need is one of the cheaper stethoscopes that Walmart sells, personally I have a cheap dual head and I place the flat side against the hive while simultaneously placing my finger over the small hole in the cupped side to reduce unwanted outside background noise.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

I "borrowed" my wife's older medical grade stethoscope, so I can't comment on the wallyworld quality other than you get what you pay for. The shingle/double head is an adjustment for adult/infant listening. It's in the head of the scope. Kinda hard to describe, but just put it on and rotate the head till you can hear your finger brushing against the larger side of it.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

http://www.hearingaidmuseum.com/images/photos/650x488/nonelectric/metaleartrumpet3L.jpg


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Now that's old school for sure.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I find when it's really cold, they move very little and I can't hear them. When they are moving to where a stethoscope works I can also hear them through the entrance with out one. 

I like using a temperature gun (cheap amazon or ebay one), when it's really cold outside the inside of the hive is 40-50 depending on where in the hive the bees are.


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## Jay Burgess (Aug 3, 2007)

A fat handled screw driver works, tip against the hive handle on the ear.


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## razoo (Jul 7, 2015)

FlowerPlanter said:


> I find when it's really cold, they move very little and I can't hear them. When they are moving to where a stethoscope works I can also hear them through the entrance with out one.
> 
> I like using a temperature gun (cheap amazon or ebay one), when it's really cold outside the inside of the hive is 40-50 depending on where in the hive the bees are.


Can you give recommendations on a temperature gun?


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## Little boy blue (Dec 13, 2016)

I use one of these to check hive integrity, simply place it in a suitable spot before winter and take readings from outside.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/WINGONEER-...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01H9Q9GJS


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I can't really recommend one, I bought the cheapest one I could find, I think on ebay for under 10 bucks with shipping, had it for five years now. I use it all the time for check bees, cooking meat, making mead, also makes a good laser to drive your cats crazy. There are several on amazon that have really good reviews. 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=temp+gun


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

One dark cold winter I was digging hives out of deep snow to ship to pollination. I needed to know which were alive from the the dead ones. Ordered a laser thermometer like the above and a stethoscope. The infrared gun proved worthless for that purpose, but the stethoscope was 100%! Since then , I have no need for the stethoscope, but use the infrared gun constantly for lots of things. Get both.


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## Little boy blue (Dec 13, 2016)

If you have the wonga there is this system by Arnia, but being a cheap state I can get my electronic guru to make one if I decide it's worth it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c0CArkaL3gk


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Little boy blue said:


> I use one of these to check hive integrity, simply place it in a suitable spot before winter and take readings from outside.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/WINGONEER-...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01H9Q9GJS


Interesting. Is the display part weatherproof? e.g. can you leave that mounted on the hive permanently, with the probe going into the hive? 

That model doesn't ship to the U.S., and I'm not seeing anything in the U.S. amazon store that looks like it. The U.S. ones are all designed to have the display unit inside, as they're not weatherproof.

Ah, here's a $20 unit with a detachable external probe. If the probe is available separately, then it would be feasible to keep a probe permanently installed in every hive, with the cable hanging outside in a plastic bag or something, and then just connect to the probe to take a reading. I've sent an email to the mfr to see if the probe is available as a separate part.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I find that the rubber ringed stethescopes work best. It looks like a big black rubber o ring on the circumfrence of the listening device. It tends to drown out background noise better than all the rest I've used.


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## Little boy blue (Dec 13, 2016)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Interesting. Is the display part weatherproof? e.g. can you leave that mounted on the hive permanently, with the probe going into the hive?
> 
> That model doesn't ship to the U.S., and I'm not seeing anything in the U.S. amazon store that looks like it. The U.S. ones are all designed to have the display unit inside, as they're not weatherproof.


Mine is actually an aquarium version and water resistant but you can pop it under the roof between the crown board and the lid.

There are many different ones to choose from which have separate wireless units, like these

https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-1730-...ds=portable+thermometer+outdoor+sensors&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/HSA/pages/default?pageId=30C2AA17-4882-4CF5-815C-BA35179756E9


Some a little more expensive and with removable probes.

One here with two probes, so you can leave them in the hive and take hand unit home.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A6PBAGQ?psc=1


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Hah! I didn't even think about using a cooking thermometer. By sheer coincidence I just received a TP20 that I intend to use for my Christmas Prime Rib. Here's how that turned out for Thanksgiving, just to gloat a little:









Anyway, that unit came with two probes, and extra/replacement probes are available for $10 plus shipping.

Probes are also available for $10 with free shipping from amazon, but I'm not sure whether those are manufactured by ThermoPro or by someone else.

The main potential issue with this is that the probe is not rated as waterproof, so I don't know how it would hold up to semi-permanent, outdoor hive usage. Then again the probes are only $10. I suppose I could try coating one with silicone to try out.


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## Little boy blue (Dec 13, 2016)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Hah! I didn't even think about using a cooking thermometer. By sheer coincidence I just received a TP20 that I intend to use for my Christmas Prime Rib. Here's how that turned out for Thanksgiving, just to gloat a little:
> 
> View attachment 29564
> 
> ...


That's a really good one, nice, you could coat it in beeswax and that's Definately waterproof.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Probes are also available for $10 with free shipping from amazon, but I'm not sure whether those are manufactured by ThermoPro or by someone else.


The ones from amazon are knockoffs made by "Famili", which is a Chinese company with an address at "Zhuhai Yasheng Metal Technology Co Ltd, 2-3 Lou, 2 Hao Changfang Pingxi Qi Lu, Qi Hao, Nanping Kejiyuan, Zhuhai, Guangdong 519000"

Since I already have the 2 OEM ThermoPro probes from my TP20, I might just try one of the Famili ones and see if they correlate. For science!


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Since I already have the 2 OEM ThermoPro probes from my TP20, I might just try one of the Famili ones and see if they correlate. For science!


So I received my Famili probe and compared it to my two OEM ThermoProbe probes. I swapped 3 probes into both the A and B inputs of my ThermoPro thermometer, and when immersed in boiling water all 3 probes reliably read between 211 - 213 degrees. I'm at 800' elevation, so my boiling point should be 210.4 degrees.

So these probes are certainly accurate enough for measuring hive temperatures. Or prime ribs.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I bought a nice dual head stethoscope for listening to hives to check for deadouts mid-winter. I never had much luck hearing the bees in the hive, though. I found I had to give the hive a pretty hard knock to get the bees to buzz enough to barely hear it with the stethoscope, and then it was only briefly that I could hear them. The method didn't have nearly the sensitivity for detecting live bees that I was hoping for. I decided that the stethoscope method wasn't all that effective, and never used it again. 

A thermometer inserted through the top entrance is a much better method.


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## beefarmer (May 2, 2010)

Thanks shinbone, I bought one, tried and couldn't here them until I tapped on the hive, I can hear them better putting my ear to the side of box, have to agree with you, never use it again.


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## pgayle (Jan 27, 2008)

I couldn't figure out why the cheap ones would work on a person, but not so well on a beehive. The cheap one I was using had a hard plastic rim on the diaphragm side. That rim raised the diaphragm just enough so that the diaphragm itself was not in contact the wood. On a person, the skin has a little give to it, so it makes contact. Maybe that's why they seem to work for some beekeepers but not for others. Just enough difference in the rim I guess.


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## rwmccor (Feb 29, 2012)

If using the probes, wouldn't you need one in every box?? As the bees move up
wouldn't the temps change?? I know some winter only in one box, but, those using mediums in the northern states use up to five.This is my first year so just wondering,I have 2 hives 5 mediums deep would be a lot of probes.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

pgayle said:


> I couldn't figure out why the cheap ones would work on a person, but not so well on a beehive. The cheap one I was using had a hard plastic rim on the diaphragm side. That rim raised the diaphragm just enough so that the diaphragm itself was not in contact the wood. On a person, the skin has a little give to it, so it makes contact. Maybe that's why they seem to work for some beekeepers but not for others. Just enough difference in the rim I guess.


i think you be on to something there. i've been wondering why some have not been able to hear cluster roar (even without knocking) when it is so easy to hear for me.

my stethoscope doesn't have a 'non-chill' plastic or rubber ring around the diaphragm, and unless the plastic 'drum head' of the diaphragm is hard against the box you can't hear anything. perhaps prying out the ring would make it work.

the other thing is that mine has both the bell and the diaphragm heads and they rotate. when one of the heads is in use the other is muted and vice versa, so you have to make sure the head is rotated properly.

lastly, a lot of wind noise will mask the cluster roar so i avoid trying to listen unless there is just light wind or no wind blowing. for some reason the roar carries better to the sides of the boxes as compared to the front or back. it will be the loudest on the side of the box that contains the cluster, and louder on one side or the other if the cluster is not in the center.


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## Knisely (Oct 26, 2013)

Once the bees die, the internal temperature will go down rapidly and will in veryshort order match the external temperature. The bees heat the inside of the hive incidentally while keeping the cluster warm. There's a contemporaneous thread on using an IR camera to photograph hives in winter that shows live hives from the heat they're generating.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...nt-last-night-pics-included&highlight=present


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

yeah, those ir images are really neat.

looks like the use of a stethoscope will have to go down as one of those beekeeping things that works for some/doesn't work for others, some rather do it this way/others rather do it that way...

advantages of the stethoscope as i see them are: the cost is much less than $250; from what i can gather the best ir images are obtained at night which would be inconvenient for me as well as the landowners at my two out yards; and time as it literally takes a couple of seconds to sample a hive and just a minute or two for a whole yard.

the advantage of ir is that one can better visualize the size of the cluster and its location within the hive. with our mild winters and knowing my hive weights this information would be nice but not really useful.

some in the far north have indicated that they don't really have a need to know about their dead outs until they start working their hives in the spring and i can see how this makes sense for them.

the reason i want to know is because due to the mild breaks in weather we get here throughout the winter months i want to bring the hives in as soon as practical after the dead out. this is so i can check them out, clean them up before the dead bees start rotting, and prevent any left over honey from getting robbed out so it can be used where most needed.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

This is what I bought, and which didn't work in my application. It is a dual-head stethoscope, and neither head worked.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RKYO7S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

To hear the bees humming with a stethoscope one needs to listen to the hives when the temperature is in the low 30's, when the temperatures are in the upper 30's the bees are pretty quiet, additionally a lot might depend on how your hives are insulated which would affect internal temperatures differently than hives which are not insulated.

The stethoscope works great in my yard and it only takes me a few seconds to check each hive, I can tell where the clusters are located and how strong the cluster is. last year I could clearly hear a bee plucking a frame support wire, it sounded like she was tuning her banjo for a hoedown .

I suppose if one cannot get this method to work for them, then other methods need to be sought out that will work, we all find our own path to follow .


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

shinbone, does the dual-head rotate so that one head is active and the other one disabled?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

squarepeg said:


> shinbone, does the dual-head rotate so that one head is active and the other one disabled?


The head does not rotate, and both inputs are always active.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

shinbone said:


> The head does not rotate, and both inputs are always active.


i suspect that is part of the problem. noise coming through the unused head would mask the sounds from the one in use. 

the larger diameter 'diaphragm' head is the one you want to use. i would consider trying to plug the hole in the smaller diameter bell head with a small piece of an expandable foam ear protector. 

does the diaphragm head have a thin plastic 'drum' head over it?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

squarepeg said:


> i suspect that is part of the problem. noise coming through the unused head would mask the sounds from the one in use.
> 
> the larger diameter 'diaphragm' head is the one you want to use. i would consider trying to plug the hole in the smaller diameter bell head with a small piece of an expandable foam ear protector.
> 
> does the diaphragm head have a thin plastic 'drum' head over it?


I'll plug one of the inputs and give it a try when the weather warms up. I wasn't hearing a lot of background noise when I tried the stethoscope, though, so I am thinking it won't make much difference.

My guess is that a medical stethoscope is designed to work on a soft surface, i.e. human flesh. The patient's soft fleshy skin conforms to the shape of the stethoscope and provides good mechanical coupling for sound transmission. 

For bee hives, the hard stethoscope doesn't conform to the hard surface of the hive body, thus little sound is transferred.

Perhaps inserting a soft membrane between the stethoscope and the hive body would improve things?


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

The stethoscope I use has the plastic diaphragm drum head and I can hear the bees clearly whether I place it directly against the wood or onto the winter insulation wrap, however I must block the little hole in the cupped side with my finger to eliminate unwanted background noise. This stethoscope it so sensitive that on warm days I can actually hear the bees walking about inside the hive, yes I can actually hear their little footsteps. 

Whatever stethoscope one uses I believe the diaphragm must be in contact with the wood or winter insulation to work properly and I doubt that cushioning is a necessity. I am speaking from experience when I tell you that this is a great tool for checking up on the condition of your wintering hives.


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