# dadant smoker poor quality control! see pics attached



## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

So after many recommendations i ordered a dadnt smoker the large one with the additional heat shield. while i like the design the craftsmanship and quality control is poor. the nozzle end where the smoke comes out of is bent. the intake port/pipe is poorly made not even a closed pipe. and its dented. i dont know but before any of my products go out the doot quality control gives them a once over to make sure its up to standards. 

im kind of pissed that they sent me this one. and it definitely did not happen in shipping as the smoker box was inside another box that included the rest of my order. disapointing

at this point i guess i might go for a kelley even though its missing the additional heat shield. 

anyone know where i can buy a rauchboy smoker?


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

this is supposed to be the best smoker in the business.... LMAO


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## EvanW (Dec 20, 2013)

Instead of venting online you should have contacted Dadant. I am almost sure they would have made things right.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Why would you buy a Kelley one when all you probably have to do is call Dadant and explain your situation.

Honestly, it looks like it could be (at least in part) due to shipping/handling damage.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

bottom line is that i should not have to go through the hassle of a return and now another wait for my product. dont want a bad review ? make sure you ship out a quality product.

im sure they will make it right but that still is not excuse for shipping out this poor product. .


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

jwcarlson said:


> Why would you buy a Kelley one when all you probably have to do is call Dadant and explain your situation.
> 
> Honestly, it looks like it could be (at least in part) due to shipping/handling damage.


This is definitely not a shipping/handling issue. the smoker was packed in a small box shown on left and then placed inside the larger box on the right. both boxes are perfect no damage. see pic.


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## EvanW (Dec 20, 2013)

Yeah I guess not, my truck shouldn't have broke down a week after I just got my car fixed either. The point is things happen, a simple call to Dadant explaining how you felt about the product may have ended with them sending you a new one for free.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

ya should see mine after its dropped a few times.


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

If it were me, a pair of pliers would fix that right up. Worst case scenario, a torch and a brazing rod. I don't have time to jump through all the hoops, ring all the bells, and blow all the whistles to get to where I need to be, especially after hearing about all the delayed orders at most commercial suppliers. JMO.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

yea i could fix it my self but is that really the point. i get that you guys are defending a company you guys like..but all im saying is if i buy a new item i expect it to be in perfect condition when i receive it. i didnt pay a scratch and dent price for this thing.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

fivekai said:


> yea i could fix it my self but is that really the point. i get that you guys are defending a company you guys like..but all im saying is if i buy a new item i expect it to be in perfect condition when i receive it. i didnt pay a scratch and dent price for this thing.


THEN SEND IT BACK, "stuff" happens man... if you are going to keep bees you better get used to the relatively unexplainable and extremely frustrating thing happening. The first of the original pictures shows what looks like a place where the heat guard came in contact with the smoker body and left a hefty dent and that location is opposite of where the nozzle is if I am picturing everything correctly. That would indicate to me that it was damaged in some way (shipping to Dadant, from Dadant, or during final delivery? Who knows.) No one is arguing that the smoker shouldn't be in new condition when you get it, fivekai. We're just saying that the situation could probably be resolved very easily with a simple phone call to the supplier. They will most likely make you whole minus a bit of time. But the more time you spend bellyaching the longer you have to wait and the better chance you have of them claiming that you damaged it not them.

Disclaimer: I have never purchased a single thing from Dadant. I'm not defending a "company I like", I'm just telling you like it is. And the damage I see could be caused by severe jostling and slamming, not just something that would show up in the form of a damaged box. I had several friends that worked for "a large private parcel delivery service" when they were going to college. The stories they told made me wonder how anything ever makes it to the final destination whole.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Honestly, I'd have fixed it myself in a minute flat and gone about my business. BUT, if I didn't want to do that I'd have called them up and explained that the product I purchased didn't meet my expectations. It really doesn't matter what the reason is (quality control, packing accident, etc.), only they can make it right. So let them know. Be prepared to ship it back (yes, we know it's a pain but since things happen, things have to happen for resolution) and either get a refund or a replacement. I don't order from them so I have no particular feelings either way except that if I were the supplier I'd want to hear from you so that I could try and make it right. 

And that's about it.


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## Treehopper (Dec 9, 2012)

Yep...same here. I got mine yesterday, I guess that's what they all look like. Seems to work just fine.


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

Fivekai: I'm in no way defending those companies- matter of fact I only have experience with some foundation from Dadant. Just saying what I'd do. I get impatient like that, especially since I'm prone to bad luck with orders. Good luck.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

I think the funny looking blast tube has been discussed and does not hinder function in any way. Below is a picture of the replacement Kelley's tube from their website:

Looks like it came from the same supplier.


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## Treehopper (Dec 9, 2012)

That's exactly like mine..only mine is stainless!!!


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

Just my opinion but it seems that you are intent on being dissatisfied. We all receive damaged goods and for the most part we just fix damage ourselves or contact the merchant for replacement. Quite frankly I have no sympathy for your case; it should have been handled with a simple home repair or replacement through the merchant. You have clearly chosen a third option, smearing a very reputable supplier of bee equipment; this option is unacceptable.


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## SugarbeatCo (Dec 27, 2014)

I like that you voiced your opinion. I think its funny that so many people defend a crappy product.. Says a lot about how compliant we have become with sub standard manufacturing.. Mass produced products are pretty much all the same anymore. They have (and sometimes hire) teams to see how corners can be cut to maximize income, minimize material and they forget all about pride in product. We don't all receive crappy products and fix them ourselves.. The wisest of us would voice their opinions about a substandard product so the rest of us can make informed decisions. If you dont mind fixing a brand new product, then I think you know where to get your smoker from.. If your hard earned dollars are worth more to you, and you expect a new product to look and function properly, looks like this isn't the smoker for you.. I completely agree you shouldn't have to even call about a damaged product, you certainly shouldn't have to do any brazing.. I for one will not be ordering one of those tremendous pieces of garbage until I see some positive reviews about the change in manufacturing, and quality control.. Simple as that.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Pete O said:


> Just my opinion but it seems that you are intent on being dissatisfied. We all receive damaged goods and for the most part we just fix damage ourselves or contact the merchant for replacement. Quite frankly I have no sympathy for your case; it should have been handled with a simple home repair or replacement through the merchant. You have clearly chosen a third option, smearing a very reputable supplier of bee equipment; this option is unacceptable.


Yup!

We expect too much for too little and then complain before we consult. If the supplier hasn't already been contacted and action taken to resolve the complaint than the issue speaks for itself. 

Good post.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> I for one will not be ordering one of those tremendous pieces of garbage


To me, this is a perfect example of why a simple phone call should have been made first. If there was an unacceptable response or the complaint was ignored, then I would have posted a negative review. JMHO, in all fairness.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beeware10 said:


> ya should see mine after its dropped a few times.


Or mine after three years of usage. Send those photos to Dadant and see what happens. Get them to send you a better one, but use the one you have. It will work fine.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

This is a function over form product. You light a fire in it, stuff grass in the end to snuff it out. You will drop it and knock it over. It'll roll around in the back of the truck and you will probably forget out in the yard a few times exposing it to the elements. It's a tool, not a piece of fine china or furniture.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Oh my, three moderators in a row weigh in! 

All I'll say is that I appreciate hearing both good and bad reviews. Helps me make informed decisions.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

The smoker, as pictured, will work as well as one without the flaws but clearly should have been sold as a scratch and dent second. I typically buy 2 or 3 Dadant smokers each year and have done so for decades and have yet to see one arrive looking like the one pictured. Ironically, I don't care for the tall smokers primarily because they are tippy and tend to fall over more easily which results in, among other things..... denting. The choice is yours, though. Use it as is and it will no doubt serve you well or complain and report back to the forum about their customer service.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Unlike Mr.Lyon, I am too cheap to buy a new smoker, so mine has more dents than a demo derby car, and voted for Tricky Dick. 

If you are unsatisfied, be a man, contact Dadant first. 

Does it function? This is not a work of art to be viewed on a shelf. It is a beekeeping tool, and the bees could care less what it looks like.

Besides, when you run it over with your vehicle, you will never find any of those major flaws you had before. Pound it out, and it will look like mine.

Crazy Roland


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## Fergus (Jan 27, 2015)

I think Fivekai is right, he shouldn't have to deal with this issue. He paid full price with the intention of receiving merchandise in new condition. Big companies are happy and secure in knowing that the majority of customers will not call them on their responsibilities. We can't just fix their broken damaged crap ourselves. We can't keep drinking the koolaid. Each one of us is just a drop in the bucket, but if enough drops leave the bucket it will soon be empty.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

Pete O said:


> Just my opinion but it seems that you are intent on being dissatisfied. We all receive damaged goods and for the most part we just fix damage ourselves or contact the merchant for replacement. Quite frankly I have no sympathy for your case; it should have been handled with a simple home repair or replacement through the merchant. You have clearly chosen a third option, smearing a very reputable supplier of bee equipment; this option is unacceptable.


I sent an email with pictures today at about 1pm eastern. The mestage was read but I have yet to get a response. We will see how they remedy the situatioN. I am the first to say how good a product is if it deserves it. I recently posted about my ultra breeze suit. But a forum cant all be smiles and rainbowS. If I feel that a product provided by a company is not as it should be then I'm going to post about it because we'll it's my right to do so and I feel like sharing both positive and negative I enCounter. If they do good on this I will be sure to post about it.


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## jk3campbell (Feb 11, 2015)

SHOULD anyone have to deal with getting a product like this? NO. However, there are a ton of possible explanations for how it could have happened. Do they "manufacture" there own in house or just get one with there name on it from someone else. It may have come to them in the first box, they expected it to be up to snuff and sent it out. They may have a disgruntled QC employee or manufacturing employee that they weren't aware of or have since fired. It may well be from rough handling during shipping. They may have known and sent it to you expecting you to just take it. 

Even if they do take care of you with a replacement, I see no reason you shouldn't post up the pics and make the post, including the resolution. It makes a difference to some and they are at least owed a call to hopefully prevent a similar issue with another future customer which could be any one of the rest of us.

I've never bought a smoker from them myself, then again I've never bought a smoker. I'm using 2 of my father's 40 year old A.I.Root galvanized smokers. One is even on it's third bellows. I was trying to straighten out a dent in one just yesterday and they are surprisingly tough to bend.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> Big companies are happy and secure in knowing that the majority of customers will not call them on their responsibilities..... Each one of us is just a drop in the bucket, but if enough drops leave the bucket it will soon be empty.


Dadant has been around for a long time. If their products and customer service were not at a high standard I doubt very much they would still be in business today. 

I like reading product reviews, positive or negative. I just feel that this should have been aired out publicly "after" the company was contacted to give them a chance to respond. Then the whole story, good or bad, could be posted and evaluated by everyone. 

If I somehow sold someone a bad jar of honey I would very much appreciate a call first and the opportunity to make it right .... before it was posted on Beesource and my reputation tarnished. Right or wrong, that's just the way I look at things.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

But Mike, that's what social media is for. Isn't it? Seems like it to me. Public ridicule is so much easier, quick, and more satisfying than dealing directly with the product provider and no one knowing about it.

Wouldn't it be nice to have seen this Thread, or one like it with before and after photos? "I ordered a smoker and this is the one I got. (pictures) Then, after I showed the supplier what I got they apologized and sent me this one. Doesn't it look nice? (pics)"


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

My business makes and/or fixes things. I sell products to customers or repair things for customers.

I buy things from others.

As a business owner I would be really upset if something like that was sent to a customer.

As a consumer, I would be upset that I got something like that from a business.

I would imagine that the people at Dadant rarely see a smoker, they only see the boxes they are packaged in from the manufacturer.

If I was Dadant, I would be on the phone with my supplier giving them a soapbox speech about quality control.

If I was Dadant, fivekai would get a new smoker and a "gift" to try and build back my customer relations.

Our business is not huge, but it's not really small either. When we goof, we always go overboard to make the customer happy.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

:thumbsup:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I don't think making and selling smokers at the price they do allows for great quality.

The one you got Fivekai is fairly typical.

In my opinion Dadant are the best smokers out there but I would be prepared to pay a lot more for a more solidly made one, well crafted. But there can't be much demand for quality as none exist, to my knowledge.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

Yeah I posted this before dad ant has had a chance to remedy the issue. But why noT? If they do right by me then I will post it also. But until then I'm not a happy customer and choose to share my experience so far. 

Bottom line is i own a business and I also provide a service and product to my customers. So i kinda know what im talking about. maybe my standards are too high but that's why I'm still in business while 60 percent of my competitors did not survive the last 4 years.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Would you feel inclined to address this problem differently had this been brought to you first than if this problem had been aired in public first?

I'm not sure, because I don't know anyone from Dadant's Headquarters, but I would expect that had this problem been brought to Carl Haushnectt's attention in Waverly, NY at the Dadant outlet there, Carl would have seen to it that you got a better smoker, an apology, and maybe more.

Probably the same after you Posted this Thread too. People in business can't afford to react the way those not in business can and do.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Companies can use social media to their advantage. Ford has been a leader in the car industry to embrace these types of online discussions. I remember seeing many years ago where they allowed negative comments on their own website regarding their products. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanhalliday/2012/03/27/ford-taps-social-media-for-customer-service/



> There’s no downside for Ford here or any other company that proactively reaches out to consumers who are have[ing] issues.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

When I had to have another EGR Valve and oil cooler installed in my F-450, this time on my dime, I called Ford Customer Service. I didn't Post it on beesource. Not before Ford had opportunity to address the situation. Under the circumstances I think they handled it well. I'll probably buy another Ford.

How much business have you done with Dadant fivekai? Will you do business with them in the future if they address this problem to your satisfaction?


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

sqkcrk said:


> Would you feel inclined to address this problem differently had this been brought to you first than if this problem had been aired in public first?
> 
> I'm not sure, because I don't know anyone from Dadant's Headquarters, but I would expect that had this problem been brought to Carl Haushnectt's attention in Waverly, NY at the Dadant outlet there, Carl would have seen to it that you got a better smoker, an apology, and maybe more.
> 
> Probably the same after you Posted this Thread too. People in business can't afford to react the way those not in business can and do.




I recieved an email from dadant that said call us to resolve this issue.... 

I called them this morning and they said they would send me a new smoker and to return the beat up smoker in the box the replacement comes in. i did get an apology,I dont know if ill get a better smoker, definitely was not offered anything more than that. maybe i should have talked to Carl Haushnectt LOL!

Will i do business with dadant again? i dont really know, depends if they are the only ones that offer a producct i need. the only reason i bought the smoker from them is that the majority of people seem to think they make the best smoker. if not i would have gone for a kelley or a rauchboy.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

You looking for something else? Please see

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?223654-not-too-impressed-with-Rauchboy-smoker

The replacement smoker from Dadant will likely be identical, possibly not the wee dent. I have a feeling you may quickly run out of anyone you are prepared to deal with.

When I get a new smoker I accept that for the price, this is what I will get, then I do a few mods that turn it into a better smoker.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

michael bush seems to really like the rauchboy and has had none of the issues stated on that thread.... see his quote below

"My Rauchboys seem to be better made than yours. A leak in the seam seems to be a flaw in the workmanship on yours. I loved that they never went out so I made the insert for the other smokers and they did as well. All eventually get clogged and need a torch to burn out the creosote."

why would i run out of people to deal with? I give praise where its deserved... The Kent Williams Hive Tool i bought from kelley is fantastic. ultrabreeze is awesome, great product. 

the smoker is a gift for my dad and yes what you call a wee dent bothered me as i dont want to give my dad a dented item. if he dents it then so be it. 

for all who have appreciated my honest opinion about my first dealings with a company, thank you. 

by the way the nerve of that guy posting negative comments about the rauchboy smoker!!! did he contact them first to smooth things over ? to see if they would send him a new one. probably not he got the smoker and posted his negative review.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

fivekai said:


> I give praise where its deserved... The Kent Williams Hive Tool i bought from kelley is fantastic. ultrabreeze is awesome, great product.


Oh you do? That's OK then, somehow I must have just missed those 2 praise giving threads.

Maybe return the defective Dadant and get a rauchboy?


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

Oldtimer said:


> Oh you do? That's OK then, somehow I must have just missed those 2 praise giving threads.
> 
> Maybe return the defective Dadant and get a rauchboy?


Here you go old timer... just so you dont think im a product hating company bashing scrooge.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?308329-quot-used-quot-ultrabreeze-full-suit-amazon


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

fivekai said:


> just so you dont think im a product hating company bashing scrooge.


Ha Ha nice work giving good feedback, I got to say well done.


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## SugarbeatCo (Dec 27, 2014)

Mike Gillmore said:


> To me, this is a perfect example of why a simple phone call should have been made first. If there was an unacceptable response or the complaint was ignored, then I would have posted a negative review. JMHO, in all fairness.


 Conversely, this is exactly the kind of example a large company needs to pass down the line to make sure the product and customer relations are up to snuff. The good old days where crappy products could be slipped in and word of mouth spread slowly are long gone.. I say good riddance to them.. In modern times, there is just no excuse except laziness, or lack of pride in product. As a manufacturer myself, I would have to expect this. I think Barry said it best that this type of critique can be a benefit to any company. Dadant can come out of this smelling like roses if anyone there cared enough.. If I manufactured bee related items, you better believe I would be monitoring these kind of forums like a hawk. A company as large as Dadant acts completely differently if they know the issue is in the public eye. They would remedy the situation publicly, make it more than right (that's what I would do). People see that and it completely changes their mind about the situation.. We have already seen at least one more person say that theirs was the exact same, they appear to be ok with it. I bet Dadant relies on this attitude.. Corners continue to be cut until enough people make a stink about it and they finally do something about it.. JMHO as a manufacturer.. I just don't understand why anyone shouldn't air this out completely. Wouldn't that be like asking someone to be dishonest about the product they received? That wouldn't be doing the consumer any favors..


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Dadant smokers, like most other manufactured goods, are a function of the balance between what people will pay, compared to the product they want.

It's that simple.

I sell bees, mostly FD singles. I sell quality gear, the boxes cost me more to make because they are rot proofed, the lids are expensive ones that will last and the bottom boards are more expensive ones that are rot proof. My competition mostly sell bees in hives of the very cheapest junk boxes etc that can be purchased. Bit of paint it all looks the same. But I cannot get much more $$ for my hives cos people just perceive that a hive should cost X. The only difference being I sell everything I produce and always have a waiting list were some others do not.

Dadant will continue to do what they do unless people wanted to pay enough so things could change. I'm definitely not going to enter the smoker building business and try to compete at those prices.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

Oldtimer said:


> Dadant smokers, like most other manufactured goods, are a function of the balance between what people will pay, compared to the product they want.
> 
> It's that simple.
> 
> ...



well said. i would be willing to pay more for a smoker that is of higher quality.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

SugarbeatCo said:


> Conversely, this is exactly the kind of example a large company needs to pass down the line to make sure the product and customer relations are up to snuff. The good old days where crappy products could be slipped in and word of mouth spread slowly are long gone.. I say good riddance to them.. In modern times, there is just no excuse except laziness, or lack of pride in product. As a manufacturer myself, I would have to expect this. I think Barry said it best that this type of critique can be a benefit to any company. Dadant can come out of this smelling like roses if anyone there cared enough.. If I manufactured bee related items, you better believe I would be monitoring these kind of forums like a hawk. A company as large as Dadant acts completely differently if they know the issue is in the public eye. They would remedy the situation publicly, make it more than right (that's what I would do). People see that and it completely changes their mind about the situation.. We have already seen at least one more person say that theirs was the exact same, they appear to be ok with it. I bet Dadant relies on this attitude.. Corners continue to be cut until enough people make a stink about it and they finally do something about it.. JMHO as a manufacturer.. I just don't understand why anyone shouldn't air this out completely. Wouldn't that be like asking someone to be dishonest about the product they received? That wouldn't be doing the consumer any favors..



I agree with you 100%. I own a company that is involved in the repair and sale of commercial aircraft parts. Maybe my idea of quality standards are a bit higher than most. but business is business.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

fivekai said:


> i would be willing to pay more for a smoker that is of higher quality.


Same Fivekai. The smoker buying part of my budget is of no consequence, yet the smoker is something I have in my hand all day. 

I would like a really good one cost is irrelevant.

But I'm not expecting aircraft quality engineering for 30 bucks.


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

Oldtimer said:


> Same Fivekai. The smoker buying part of my budget is of no consequence, yet the smoker is something I have in my hand all day.
> 
> I would like a really good one cost is irrelevant.


im going to buy a rauchboy and give a review. i sent an email to their us distributor today.. the german guy that sells them has a different method of selling, see below. hopefully the guy here in the united states just has them on the shelf... if not then i guess i will have to send some cash overseas. 


"Dear Mr. Villavicencio,



yes, we habe a distributer. It is Mr. Shiffers ([email protected]).



Please contact him. If you have problems, than I can sent you a smoker Rauchboy 2 to your adress, but the payment is in advance. The US beekeeper change US $ in Euro (55 Euro) and send the money in a registriert letter (good packed in paper) to my adress. If the money (I accept only Euro) has arrived me, I will send the smoker on the same day.



Best regards

Heidemarie Türksch"


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I guess I'm viewing this from a different perspective. 

For example, say I purchase an alternator from Mr X Auto Parts for my Pick Up. I take it home only to discover the cable is broken and the brand new part is defective. 

I go back to Mr X Auto Parts and without even going in to register a complaint first, I begin to stroll back and forth on the sidewalk in front of the store carrying a picket sign announcing that this store sells defective garbage parts. 

I think that's unfair, and maybe just a little bit self-centered. Sure I would be upset, and it would be a definite inconvenience, but come on. Stuff happens sometimes. If I don't get treated right when I go back, there's always another company down the road who would love to have my business.

It appears I'm in the minority on this, so I guess I've shared my thoughts and will try my best to figure out what I'm missing. Or, maybe this dog's just too old to change.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I'd pay more for a quality smoker as well. I've used a friends new smoker and I'm so glad I still have my old one to use. The new one feels so cheap and flimsy. Not sure who manufactured it.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I've used new bought smokers from the big mail order suppliers.
I was also given an old dicolored woodman that had sat in someone's shed for who knows how long.

I put a little olive oil on the stiff, dirty bellows to clean and soften it, and have used it since.

I like it better than the newer ones.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Agreed. That old Dadant I posted a pic of a little while ago, I pulled it apart & removed the asbestos, reassembled but tightened some rivets and replaced other rivets with small bolts, drilled and added some extra bolts, fixed the hinge, put in a new firepan, it's now my smoker of choice, the new Dadants laying around are spares now they are not as good.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I guess I'm viewing this from a different perspective.
> 
> For example, say I purchase an alternator from Mr X Auto Parts for my Pick Up. I take it home only to discover the cable is broken and the brand new part is defective.
> 
> ...


I'm with you Mike. Order from someone, return to someone, complain to someone. The business shouldn't have to monitor every relevant site in hope of appeasing customers who want to take part in a social conversation instead of interacting directly with the company. Then, share the whole story and let readers judge for themselves.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The battery in my Bobcat, the one I got less than 3 months ago, had to be replaced because it wouldn't hold a charge, not enough cranking amps. I'm going to take it back where it came from and get a refund. I'm not going to throw the Dealership under the bus. Not yet anyway.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I use this 30+ year old copper smoker. I suspect it is a Dadant. I drop it so often the bottom had broken off, been soldered back on years ago, and last year my helper added a protective bottom made from a coffee can. In Mexico they don't buy a new one, they repair the old one.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> The battery in my Bobcat, the one I got less than 3 months ago, had to be replaced because it wouldn't hold a charge, not enough cranking amps. I'm going to take it back where it came from and get a refund. I'm not going to throw the Dealership under the bus. Not yet anyway.


Exactly. And I normally ask for relief from the folks that I can get it from. And I do that first. And I expect to be made whole, not whole and a half. There are two parties to each transaction and both can be judged by how they comport themselves. 

Let's recap. An order was placed for an item. The item was delivered but the quality was certainly far under the buyers expectations. The buyer ultimately contacted the distributor who apologized and sent out a replacement. The quality of the replacement is undetermined at this time. 

Sounds like life to me.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

There's something I still don't understand.....

fivekai, you read where I posted that I am a business owner and you posted that you are also.

I don't know what you do at your business, but as a business owner how would you like it if one of your customers got on a large website like this and threw you under the bus without first giving you the opportunity to make it right?

I know I wouldn't like it at all. I'm sure you wouldn't either.


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

Brad Bee said:


> "I would imagine that the people at Dadant rarely see a smoker, they only see the boxes they are packaged in from the manufacturer."
> 
> Well, imagining can sometimes be a mistake. Dadant manufactures their stainless steel smokers in their own metal shop...same place as their tanks, extractors, etc. I've been there and seen the process. They wouldn't have stayed in business for 150 years if they were in the habit of shipping a damaged or inferior product. Give them a chance to make it right and I feel certain they will do so.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Oldtimer said:


> I pulled it apart & removed the asbestos,


Now why would you do that? It servers a purpose. Was it falling apart? Mine's in perfect condition.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> You looking for something else? Please see
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?223654-not-too-impressed-with-Rauchboy-smoker
> 
> ...


 My smoker came from China via eBay . It wasn't bent , but in less than a year I can tell I'll be repairing the bellows by replacing that cheap plastic coated fabric with some leather - which I salvaged from an old swivel/tilt desk chair . I expect it to outlast me after the repair ...


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Barry said:


> Now why would you do that? It servers a purpose. Was it falling apart? Mine's in perfect condition.


I'm an inveterate tinkerer, I enjoy fixing old stuff.

The smoker did have 2 rivets missing and others loose plus the firepan corroded out and hinge not good. If I left the smoker rattling around it was due to eventually disintegrate. In order to replace the rivets I had to disassemble it so pulled the asbestos, don't think the heat shield gets noticeably warmer without it. Replaced the rivets with bolts just cos those rivets have always been the thing that goes in those smokers.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Since the OP is a business man, was it Aircraft related?, maybe he should go into the business of smoker manufacturing. Let's see if he can make a better functioning smoker to sell Barry. I have played around with one many years ago, changing the air tube size and shape. It was easier to build a gas turbine than it was to make a better smoker than a 70's Woodman. 

Crazy Roland


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## fivekai (Mar 6, 2015)

than a 70s wood man maybe. But have you compared it to a 2015 dadant?.... maybe I should get on ebay and buy a vintage one


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes if you can get a 70's Woodman, maybe made by Dadant after they bought them, if it is in good condition they are a better smoker.

It's all opinion though, some people may disagree that's fine, user experience is different for everyone.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I am sure they will make it right now that they know. Most smokers are made in China today, unfortunately. 
Although I'm also sure that if anyone that bought a brand new car that had a dent/scratch in it, they wouldn't fix it themselves and be ok with it. We should expect that brand new anything should look brand new, not beat up. We have the right to expect we are getting what we pay for.
You would be surprised as a builder, some of the materials that are shipped to my job site. Broken trusses, bent aluminum fascia, dented garage doors, broken windows.....etc. 
Yeah... I make them pick it up and replace it, like.. yesterday. I may be a stickler (or another word you can use your imagination here) but it only happens once per supplier. They make sure the next load is much better.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Roland said:


> Let's see if he can make a better functioning smoker to sell Barry.


Better functioning? Perhaps, but better quality is what I want. The gauge metal being used today is thinner than my old one. Most all are stainless. Why? My tin one has lasted over 40 years. I don't need stainless. Manufacturers could save expense right there, allowing them to increase quality in other ways. We see this happen time and again don't we? A perfectly good product that everyone is happy with has a design change and it's never as good from there on. Look at your dated equipment. There's a reason I don't see new shiny equipment at your place!


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Barry said:


> Most all are stainless. Why?


Because that nice, shiny SS looks so much prettier than galvanized or tin...well, at least it does until you've used it for a few years and it has scads of black, burnt creosote running down the sides, and what you -can- see of the SS has various hues of blue because while it was sitting in the back of the truck the breeze was blowing just right to go in the air-tube and over-fire it...me, I'd prefer function over form in this case, but what can you do...


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Barry..... THAT is a good question. Why stainless? Doesn't make any sense from a manufacturing standpoint. Maybe it was a ploy years ago as an upgrade from the regular tin ones? I have a few older ones that may look rusty and old, but work like brand new. Maybe even better.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Guilty as charged, Barry. All old stuff here. Wait until you see the shop at home.

Before the EPA cracked down on the foundries and mills, , and Autocad/Solidworks had stress analysis, it was a lot cheaper to just add more metal.

I do also believe that all Dadant smokers are still made in Dallas City, Ill. a few miles frol Hamilton.

Fired up the old standby(trying to make it last) Woodman yesterday. It just makes you smile.

Crazy Roland


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## DavidP (May 27, 2009)

I recently bought one as well and noticed the inlet tube which looks superficially like it hasn't been finished properly. It looks exactly like yours, a split tube. I also saw this thread about the issue as well

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...moker-inlet-tube-issue&highlight=dadant+inlet

It seems to produce a nice stream of air and I can only assume its been designed that way although at first sight it does look like a manufacturing error. Mine had none of the other denting that you show and looks well built


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Roland,
Your post got me to thinking. I purchased a box of old beekeeping equipment late last fall at a yard sale. I remembered an old large smoker with heat shield that was part of the deal, but I really didn't pay much attention to it at the time. Today I took it out to inspect it closer... it was a woodman. Just for the heck of it I fired it up. NOW.... I know the difference in smokers. I have about a dozen smokers, old to new. Some new ones still have the factory paper still in the smoke chamber. lol 
That one is now my favorite.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Don't loose it.

Crazy Roland


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Oldtimer: "
I sell bees, mostly FD singles. I sell quality gear, the boxes cost me more to make because they are rot proofed, the lids are expensive ones that will last and the bottom boards are more expensive ones that are rot proof. My competition mostly sell bees in hives of the very cheapest junk boxes etc that can be purchased. Bit of paint it all looks the same. But I cannot get much more $$ for my hives cos people just perceive that a hive should cost X. The only difference being I sell everything I produce and always have a waiting list were some others do not.

This is the exact reason why I now rarely sell hives. I use A grade Hoop Pine and quality paint. Others sell Economy Radiata and spray paint it all. Looks the same wen new but in our subtropical climate the difference will show soon enough.
As you say, people expect to pay X $ for a product and some of us are not willing to work to a price. There is a niche market! Some are willing to pay for quality.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Barry..... THAT is a good question. Why stainless? Doesn't make any sense from a manufacturing standpoint.


Anyone have some older supply catalogs where we can pinpoint what year stainless starting showing up on smokers? Who started it? I'm guessing late 80's or 90's. Once one did it, they all did because it's perceived to be better (shiny). I wonder if the first one came from China?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I, too, would pay more for a high quality smoker.

I would also like to see a design where the lid doesn't get glued shut by the creosote. If I cork the smoker with the lid closed to smother the fire and save any remaining fule for the next use, the smoker cools with the lid closed and the creosote glues it shut and it is *really really* hard to open. I just about destroy my smoker trying to get it open. To combat this problem, I leave the lid open after use, meaning any unused fuel is wastefully burned. 






.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

shinbone - try using an air tight "smoker box". We have one built into our beekeeping truck. It eliminates the cork which only stops up the exit,

Crazy Roland


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

Place your hive tool under the lip of the smoker lid and lay it across the top of the bellows for leverage pressing downward. The lid will pop open regardless of creosote buildup.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Ravenseye said:


> Honestly, I'd have fixed it myself in a minute flat and gone about my business. BUT, if I didn't want to do that I'd have called them up and explained that the product I purchased didn't meet my expectations.


I would have taken a few minutes and fixed it myself also. That smoker obviously got the snot beaten out of it somewhere along the line and if it bothered me (which it would have) sufficiently I would have called who ever I ordered it from and expressed my feelings about the damaged product. At the end of the day though Dadant makes a decent smoker for the price and I would have just fixed it and went about my business because after a few days with me it would look about the same as what arrived in the mail lol :gh:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nothing technically wrong with the smoker illustrated in the photos at the beginning of this Thread, only cosmetically. It will work just fine. You should see mine after years of use.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

SWM said:


> Place your hive tool under the lip of the smoker lid and lay it across the top of the bellows for leverage pressing downward. The lid will pop open regardless of creosote buildup.


That works with 7" smokers but not with 10".


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

shinbone said:


> I, too, would pay more for a high quality smoker.
> 
> I would also like to see a design where the lid doesn't get glued shut by the creosote. If I cork the smoker with the lid closed to smother the fire and save any remaining fule for the next use, the smoker cools with the lid closed and the creosote glues it shut and it is *really really* hard to open. I just about destroy my smoker trying to get it open. To combat this problem, I leave the lid open after use, meaning any unused fuel is wastefully burned.
> 
> ...


Why don't you scrape the inside of the lid every now and then?


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Anyone know who made this one? I have to repair it...dropped it once too many times and it's wobbly where those nuts are. I need to straighten the metal and get it lined up again. It normally sit's outside in my smoker box near the hives. I do like it.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

shinbone said:


> If I cork the smoker with the lid closed to smother the fire and save any remaining fule for the next use, the smoker cools with the lid closed and the creosote glues it shut and it is *really really* hard to open.


Try covering the opening with a piece of newspaper and closing the top over it. This is what I do and don't have problems opening it afterwards.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Barry, stainless steel last longer than tinned steel if you are in the habit of burning out the smoker to remove creosote buildup. Other than the bellows, the only other problem I have had with my smoker from Kelleys is the hinge on the top. I bought a replacement bellows about ten years ago and the top hinge is joined with a bent nail I put in as a temporary fix about 15 years ago. What I would like is a smoker with an alarm that sounds and tells me where I put it down.

If the smoker lid is stuck, sit it on the ground, put a cord through the ring, put your foot on top of the bellows and gently pull.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

AR Beekeeper said:


> if you are in the habit of burning out the smoker to remove creosote buildup.


Change your habit. They aren't designed to burn anything out. They're designed to smoke.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Barry, You can't teach an old dog new tricks, especially if he uses pine needles as fuel!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Barry said:


> Try covering the opening with a piece of newspaper and closing the top over it. This is what I do and don't have problems opening it afterwards.


Stuff some toilet paper or napkin paper between the bellows and the pipe at the base of the smoker and then plug the outlet at the top of the smoker and the fire will die and less creosote. I don't normally do that because I want my smoker to come back to life on its own when I get to the next yard.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Wellll, pyromaniac that I am, when I start my smoker its I let it get pretty darned hot. I like to see the metal get red and then let it sit while the open flame burns the creosote from the top of the firebox before topping with moist pine needles or green grass.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Ironically the photos (except for the nozzle) of the first one are the same as the one I bought back in "06. I wondered about those very things but figured they (Dadant) knew what they were doing and off I went. Fast forward 9 years and 2 billows replaced and it's still working like a champ. I've dropped it such on occasion that the nozzle has bent much worse than the photo. Get a screw driver and a pair of pliers and pry it back into shape. It takes a couple minutes. I did have to put a slight bend on the front hinge pin to keep it from working itself out all the time too though. That took 30 seconds.

What I love about my smoker after all this time is all of the dents, dinks, scratches, stains, burn patina, etc. tell a story. I do burn it out once every 8 to 12 months so the stainless has an off color metallic brown look where the heat really kicks in to clean out the build up.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

After you have used your smoker for a few years, solid black, dented, metal fatigue, you might try what I do. Take the used smoker to antique stores and sell it to them. They will give you enough for a used smoker to buy you a new one. That way you don't have to worry about bellows, bolts, pins, metal fatigue, bent intake pipes etc. You will have a new smoker.

But, if you like your smoker, and it carries fond memories just a little maintenance will normally insure several more years use.

cchoganjr


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## linn (Nov 19, 2010)

I hold the smoker at an angle and burn off the creosote with a propane torch. When I first got a smoker I tried Brillo pads. Brillo pads do not work-at least for smokers.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I must be doing something right, or wrong. If I get some creosote build up, I just scrape or knock it off with my hive tool. It never gets so bad that I have to take pyro actions and burn it off/out. It would take a lot of creosote to restrict the opening and inhibit the flow of smoke. I use burlap. Still have a dozen or so coffee bags.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> After you have used your smoker for a few years, solid black, dented, metal fatigue, you might try what I do. Take the used smoker to antique stores and sell it to them. They will give you enough for a used smoker to buy you a new one. That way you don't have to worry about bellows, bolts, pins, metal fatigue, bent intake pipes etc. You will have a new smoker
> cchoganjr


Now here's some good advice. it dosent take long for a new smoker to become an "antique".


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

jim lyon said:


> That works with 7" smokers but not with 10".


Good point, Jim...I forgot the OP had a 10" smoker. I've always preferred a 7" and, properly loaded with fuel, it burns quite a long time.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Thanks for starting this thread. It made me pay closer attention to my Dadant copper smoker. 
Five rivets later and it is good for 30 more years.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

odfrank said:


> Thanks for starting this thread. It made me pay closer attention to my Dadant copper smoker.
> Five rivets later and it is good for 30 more years.


Mine is still a pup compared to that one. Now if this showed up in the mail when I ordered a new smoker, I would definitely be on the phone with customer service.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

t:
I can't get BBCode to resize the above image to a smaller size on beesource. I've tried (where the curly brackets are square brackets) {img height="200" width="600"} and {img=200,600} {img=200x600} etc. but none of it works when I link an image hosted on another site and I've used the example code successfully on other forums to resize an image. I don't want that big of an image posted. Does anyone know the proper syntax needed to resize an image with bbcode on beesource? If so send me a pm


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