# first year, warre 3 boxes full??



## cnatsu1

First year beekeeper. added a 3rd box in July as I had extreme bearding going on and the boxes had gotten heavy. Now it appears my bees have filled the 3rd box as well. I see honeycomb at the bottom of the 3rd box and increased activity near the entrance as if they are running out of room. I had planned on leaving them with the 3 boxes and not taking any honey this first year. Do I add another box this late in the year? Expert advice greatly appreciated. Suburban area near Boise, ID so it usually doesn't get that cold, zone 7? Thanks!


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## Santa Caras

First year beek-no expert. Heres what I'd do. It's now late in the year, so adding a 4th box...doubt they'd do anything with it and it'd be more room for them to keep warm. If that 3rd box isnt filled ALLL the way out...then I'd leave it just like you have it. Be ready in the spring though with more spare boxes or be ready to move some of them around if the bottoms are emptied out and they've moved up.


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## thehackleguy

I had a similar question on my hive, two boxes and seems crowded. Another member that keeps quite a few Warre' hives said to keep them crowded for the winter and make sure to add boxes as soon as possible in the spring. So I think Santa Caras is right on :thumbsup:

On another note, I have an uncle in Boise. We were there a few years back and I got to do some tubing and trout fishing, great place!


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## suzyq

I also have 3 boxes on my Warre hive. The bottom one has comb but not a lot of honey. Should I take off the bottom box and save it for next spring? Top 2 boxes are full. Also I have an old freezer that came with our house in the basement. Just turned it on and it runs but my question is how long do I have to store the comb in the freezer and when I take it out can how do I store it then? Thanks for replies in advance. Newbee on board.


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## Teabag

Suzyq,
If you are saying the bottom box is around 90% empty comb, I would remove it and store for next spring. The bees will be fine in the smaller area for wintering. A box of empty comb serves no real purpose over winter and they wont need it until well into next spring. I dont see any need to freeze the box of empty comb if you have not had any problems. I bring mine into the house and leave upturned to expose to light and warmth. Hope this helps.


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## suzyq

Thank you Teabag. Thursday will be in the low 60's for us. Last of the nice days so I will remove the bottom box then. I believe it will be a little more cozy for them with two boxes and because they swarmed late I'm sure the honey that's there should hold the bees off till spring.  Really enjoy this forum and all the good advice and opinions that go with it.


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## odfrank

A bottom box with empty combs can serve as a wind baffle to the cluster above. Bee heat the cluster, not the cavity, so keeping drafts below the cluster will help.


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## BernhardHeuvel

The French Warré beekeeper use an empty box below the cluster and call it the "_sanitary box_". It does what Frank says. It works like a sump. Compare: 

*Flow currents and ventilation in Langstroth beehives due to brood thermoregulation efforts of honeybees.*
http://www.uoguelph.ca/canpolin/Publications/JTB-PAPER-Sudarsanetal-2011.pdf

I don't have any empty boxes (or at least: not enough for all hives) sitting around so I use the same effect with a deep floor. You definitely need a sump if you keep your entrance wide open or if you use a mesh floor, so the wind gusts cannot reach the cluster directly. If you use a solid and a well-insulated floor board and a small entrance, you can keep them without a sump. But you need to take great care, that the deadfall doesn't block the entrance, which can happen in a shallow floor. Lean a board to the entrance from the outside to block away sun, wind and snow from the entrance.

Personally I prefer a deep floor. It prevents the blockage of the entrance by dead bees, acts like a sump to prewarm the incoming breathing air, and bees can hang out there. Which they really do like to do at certain times.

Bernhard


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## BernhardHeuvel

This is a similiar setup (although not Warré hives): 

You lean a board to the front (and another one on the back of the hive). 









Bees enter and leave the hive on the sides









If you use a mesh floor you can open it to the back of the hive and lean another board to the back. This way the hive is ventilated well enough without catching the wind gusts.


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## suzyq

Thank you all for your input. The idea of the cluster not being directly in line with the cold drafts is something I had thought previously but I wasn't aware that they didn't have to keep the whole hive warm. Also liked your idea of a board in front of the hive to keep the wind from blowing in. I will use a board along with putting tarp around my "dog" fence to help as well. What are your thoughts on wrapping the hive to stay warm? Wisconsin had record lows last winter.


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## BernhardHeuvel

I wrap my hives. But you need to use thick insulation (> 4 inches) to make it work and to prevent condensation. If you use a too thin insulation, you need to ventilate more. For example with a top vent or mesh floor. 

A cheap way to insulate is to make a cage of chicken wire around the hive and fill it with dead leafes or straw. Watch for mice, though. Last year I experimented with a fleece or fabric, that gets strapped to the floor and filled up with straw. Especially with Warrés this is needed in colder climates. Because of the narrow dimensions of the hive, there is no buffer zone between winter cluster and the outside. In most winters they do just fine, especially if there is enough snow. We have winters with little snow here but hard frost. This in combination with continious wind really kills hives. (And other animals, too.) It doesn't need low temperatures for that, just no snow and wind and frost. The ground is like ice then. 

Bernhard


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## thehackleguy

How do the bees get out if you have so much insulation around them?


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## bjverano

Regarding insulating/wrapping hives:
I live in Midwestern USA where the temperature can change rapidly. The saying is "if you don't like the weather, wait around for 10 minutes". I'm close to St. Louis, MO. We have a week or two of weather in the teens and a week or so of zero or a bit lower. It can jump back up in the 3o-40's in a few days. Lots of snow last year but usually not all that much.
I had an idea about wrapping some insulation with a Velcro strap so I could take it off on those warm days. Tar paper perhaps. What do you think? I'm not sure what I should do. Ideas welcome. 
Bonnie


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## Lostfrog

bjverano said:


> Regarding insulating/wrapping hives:
> I live in Midwestern USA where the temperature can change rapidly. The saying is "if you don't like the weather, wait around for 10 minutes". I'm close to St. Louis, MO. We have a week or two of weather in the teens and a week or so of zero or a bit lower. It can jump back up in the 3o-40's in a few days. Lots of snow last year but usually not all that much.
> I had an idea about wrapping some insulation with a Velcro strap so I could take it off on those warm days. Tar paper perhaps. What do you think? I'm not sure what I should do. Ideas welcome.
> Bonnie


Bonnie, I'm not too far from you and this is my 1st year with bees so no first hand knowledge but I plan on using the straw bale method. You put straw bales around the hive sides , but not touching it to keep wind off and help with insulation. Theory is the sun heats up the bales during the day and helps release it back at night. If nothing else, it's a windbreak. I always have lots of straw bales around so I thought I would try it. Hopefully we do not have another horrid winter like last year, that was brutal, but that is what I keep hearing is predicted again.


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## bjverano

Lostfrog,
Sounds like a good idea. I just talked to a Langstroth Beek this week who lives close by and she's using straw bales too. Thanks for the advice. 
Bonnie


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