# Lids from 1x4s



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I have a near unlimited supply of 1x4s from a friend and a local Kubota dealership. I want to make them into lids similar to my standard plywood lid-








Do I at least need to rabbet the end bars to accept the 1x4s? Tongue and groove between each 1x4 slat? or just propolis? 

Mike


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## cheezer32 (Feb 3, 2009)

You could run a dado about 3/4 inch or so down about 3/8 deep on the end to slide the 1x4 into it will keep the straight and prevent the from bowing (for the most part). Just slide them together and paint propolis will be enough imo, just put a square peice of tin or something on the top and put a 1x on the top next to the end rails to hold the tin and that will really get them to last awhile.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Do not want to do tin at @ $5 a lid. Any other suggestions? 

mike


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Tongue and groove. If you don't they will leak and the $5 a lid will seem cheap compared to the bees you lose.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

OK so router a joint between each plank? 

mike


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

got a small stack of them so far this winter, I'd take that piece in your hand (2" x 16 1/2") and run my router down the center 3/8 inch deep 3/4 inch wide for the pieces to fit into and keep from warping. I leave 3/4 inch above the groove and lay another 2 inch piece along that top edge. Nailed from the inside gorilla glue too. 
That should leave 1/2 inch to hang down over the ends of the supers. When it is real hot I set that end piece up on the super to crack the top open.
Think I cut my boards 21 1/4 long slip into that 3/8 on each end......carry the two.......leaves coverage of 20 1/2 over a 19 7/9 super.
I run the edges over a joiner and squeeze it with a wood clamp when I nail it. Good coat of paint to seal it all up.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Seal it real good and skip the metal. If metal is not sealed perfectly, what is ever perfect, moisture trapped between the metal and wood will have you maikng the new ones right. I have tongue and grooved, butt jointed, about every bit set I have and sealing the wood from moisture was all that mattered. You can sandwich the horizontal pieces between upper and lower cleats if you did not seal it well enough, you are concerned about warping, or you want a little more weight. Some of the catalogs have both migratory designs and the plans on Beesource have the extra cleats too. There is more wood without the dado or routing and more is better to reduce warping and exposed grain.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

If you cover them with aluminum flashing it shouldn't be anything like $5 per - unless it's gone up an awful lot since last summer. It would be one of the easier ways to make them water proof and long lasting.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've had them that were just a dado done as a lap joint, but T & G would be better, but also harder to do.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

Newspaper offset plates. ????
If they still use offset press to print newspapers and I believe they do.?
Years ago they were $.25 cents each "page".
Thin alum material, easy to work with. (a little fragile, but "tin" for cheap)
Check our local news printer, things are changing all the time.


BM


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

I made a bunch from redwood 1x6 and tounge and groove. As they got old the wood split before the joint. I made a bunch by just planing the edge and glueing with the best wilhold glue. This glue joint was also stronger than the natural wood grain. There is a drywall C channel that is 5/8 id and 3/4 od. It is used in drywalling industrial and steel buildings. I cut these 16 1/4 , routed the grain ends of the flat to accept the channel. The channel gets 5 1.5 in screws to hold it in place. Makes a bullet proof completely flat migratory lid. Of coarse my boxes all had cleats that are flush to the top of the box.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

This is a place to start for your T&G
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-036-Adjustable-Tongue-Groove/dp/B00006XMTT

Amana:
http://www.nextag.com/tongue-and-groove-router-bit/stores-html

Nailing on two solid cleats will prevent warping
Good Luck,
Ernie


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

So do i really have to rout every single plank! Plus I think I am down to $10 in my wallet, those A/R better start coming in. Think the plywood may be easier. I think I will make them with 2 cross pieces on each end, like dadant's. I will butt the planks tight and paint real good. Will that all work? Plan on trying some different ways to see how it works. 

mike


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## concrete-bees (Jun 20, 2009)

Mike - i get my tin from the local newspapers - they use it in the printing and can only use them once - they sell the sheets for 25-30 CENTS each - 

contact your local paper and see what you can get


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

i useto use the tin from the news paper printing and in a few years (4-5)

the ink must have eaten some pin size holes in them.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

OK will check with them. I remember going on a school field trip in like 2002 or 2003 or sometime and they said they were converting from those type of machines to something more like a home printer, but my memory is sketchy so they may still use them. 

mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Velbert what are you using now? 

mike


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

mostly migortory lids


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

$5 each seems very high, I buy 24" coil stock, and cut them 16" wide (8-frame), I think they end up costing about $1 each


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Velbert said:


> mostly migortory lids


How are you making them? 

That was the price a friend that gets them cut told me. 

mike


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I was curious after again reading some of the posts regarding buying used printing plates from newspaper publishers to be used as weather proff tops for hive covers. I have been making a few telescoping tops as the price for new ones from the manufacturer's is very high. So I called my local newspaper and the guy said "oh sure we have tons of them, how many would you like"? They charge $1.00 each, but some I believe are large enough to make two tops per sheet. Easy to cut and bend and should provide a very effective water-proof covering over the wood. I'm picking mine up next week. I'm glad I called because I really didn't think they were even available anymore. Anyone have any pictures or tips of theirs?


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I ran a trial run today. The concerns mentioned about hairline cracks in between boards was remedied with a little tite bond. I will take some pix after the glue dries. Cost- Stapes and glue- maybe $0.60-75. After paint there should be hardly any leaks. 

mike


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Tongue and groove between each 1x4 slat? or just propolis? 

I have a box joint-er. Works real well, quick and exact. I glue my cleats and dip the whole top in paraffin resin.


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

I have a local sawmill that cuts cypress. He said he will cut 1x17 boards out or the heart of large logs for 1.00 per bdft. Thats 2.60 per top. Just need end cleat and finished. 

But I am worried about cupping of that wide a board even out of heart wood and with end cleat.

What do yall think?

Johnny


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

Alum.roof flashing from HDepot by the roll - last summer I covered some mig covers that I made from oak wood tht was not quite seasoned, they opened cracks big enough for a bee to pass through!. So I made alum cover, left 3/4 inch 'attic' space to ventilate. Hornets built in every one and I ended up ripping the alum.off while on the RUN!
Cheap metal break for the bending, squeeze two 18 inch pieces 90 degree metal in a vise, makes the jaws of the vise seem as long as the top.
This is a GREAT thread to learn from others experiences. Making something is one thing but not having to replace it in three to five years is what I'm shooting for.
I'm making mig cover for around $2 of 1x10 pine and don't price the glue, staples,paint. Wood right from amish saw mill at 65 cents bf planed. Counting on good primer and exterior paint to seal my single glued seam in the cover. Seems to me the bees will seal the inside just fine and to refresh the paint job every few years isn't too much to ask.
Keep the ideas coming, I don't want to find in two years that I wsted all this time and material.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Ya, this is a good thread. Let me feed goats and fowl and I will get some pix up of trial one. 

mike


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

Broke-T said:


> But I am worried about cupping of that wide a board even out of heart wood and with end cleat.
> Johnny


Cypress in MS, at least you don't have to worry about the ice build up from snow melt opening up a joint. The other side of a cup is a dome. If you can look at the wood grain and figure which way a cup would develope, put the cleat on the underside and worst case you end up with a slight dome to help shed the rain. Bees will seal the underside.
I make my lids 16 1/2 wide to have just a tiny overhang and allow for a lid maybe not being put on perfectly.
I like a 1/2 inch cleat that in the heat I can slide the lid back and rest the cleat on the fron edge of the top super. I set a standard building shim that I have ripped in half length wise on the super sides so it tapers up from the back to leave only about an inch long gap on each front corner. Chimney effect 'should' help draw air up through the stack and leaves a small exit to defend.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Here it is. Needs some work. Plausible idea though. This wood is scrap. I think the holes/cracks will fill with paint. I may just putty in some painters caulk.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I used cedar pallet lumber for migratory covers, tongue and grooved it. It proved unstable, joints opened up, had to chalk them, lots of leakage, early rot. Bee careful using cheap lumber, your labor might be wasted.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Did you paint or dip?? 
mike


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Primed and painted. The wood shrank and expanded so much the paint peeled off. Some rotted in two years.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

odfrank said:


> Primed and painted. The wood shrank and expanded so much the paint peeled off. Some rotted in two years.


Was the wood dry when you assembled them? I.E. dried at a plant not cut at home?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

It was free pallet type lumber used to box big trees.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Any one else use this type of lid? Trying to get negative/postive feed back on it. Going to make some nicer ones next week. need to paint and get it out in the field. 
mike


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I suggest that you use that type of lumber for telescoping lids covered with some kind of metal plate.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

I use the alum. printing sheets get them for $0.50 each and they are large enough to cover 4 tops per sheet.
I also am switching over to plywood tops, get the plywood for $4.00 per sheet and the sheets are 9 ft long and they have all different thickness from 1/4 " to 1-1/2" I just have to sort through and pick out what sizes I want.
I would at least rabbet (old days they said ship lap) your 1x4's lengthwise and glue/clamp/staple or nail.
I am also switching to all migratory tops as all the bees are going onto pallets.
I finally realized why they invented hydraulics! :doh:

You remind me of myself, scrounging lumber to make bee equipment!
Oh!, But isn't it fun!???


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## Hoskee (Nov 1, 2008)

I make tops that eventually leak and then just cover them with roofing paper. It's the type with white particles. If you cut it long enough to bend it over the side and nail it to the cleat it keeps the end grain dry as well. Even rotten tops can be kept in service in a pinch this way.

Hoskee


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I made up a bunch last year, and I am happy with them. But they took up alot of my time to build. This year I am running out of time to put towards building the top with 1 by 4, so Im using plywood instead.
I dipped mine, but still found some of the lids would leak. Also water wicking around the edge.


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

I glued old(corrugated plastic) political signs on top of mine.Just glued them to the wood and they last a really long time.They turn up at every intersection with ads on them and they are usually on the right of way.The city takes them down all the time so I just save them the trouble.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

How long does it take for the UVs to break them down? I have about 25 ones that are bigger than a lid, and can get some more. Some friends were real into a candidate for governor that did not work out, so they have pallets of the signs. 

mike


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

I have some that I had built into a 2 sided sign to ride around in the back of my truck that have been out in the sun for 4 years now and havnt shown any signs of deteriating.The writing has faded on a few but the plastic corrugated is still fine.I was using this spray adhesive like you use for headliners in cars but I have also used liquid nails and just roofing nails on some.


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