# A good package is hard to find...



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Two package suppliers that say 'no chemicals':
http://www.wolfcreekbees.com/philosophy.asp
http://www.arnoldhoneybeeservices.com/html/bees_for_sale.html

There is a Lang style hive that offers similar 'weight management' to a TBH. More on horizontal hives here:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm
A horizontal hive would make it simple to utilize a purchased 'nuc' instead of a package.


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## NAVET (Aug 16, 2014)

Thanks.
I'll have to contact them and see about ordering for next year. I may order 1 from each just because.


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## JBee (Oct 14, 2014)

Navet, I'm in a similar situation. Just starting out, looking to get 2-4 nucs in the spring that are treatment free. Or packages if that ends up making more sense After a lot of fruitless looking around online, what I finally figure out was to search apiaries on the Certified Naturally Grown website and found a couple in surrounding states that sell nucs & packages. Definitely higher price, but hoping I will be able to get some when they open ordering in January. Also planning to split my order between 2 or more providers.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

For what it is worth. (probably not much)

I bought 2 nucs last year. Neither made it through the Winter, but I think that was Beek error.

I bought 1 complete hive (2 deeps) and 1 nuc this year. The hive yielded honey, but the nuc is stronger now than the hive. A softball sized swarm that I caught in February and a split that I made 1 1/2 months ago are stronger than either.


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## NAVET (Aug 16, 2014)

Like you I feel like my search was fruitless. Not because I couldn't find Russian Bees but because all I found was Russian queens OR Russian nucs. That would be great if I was going the Langstroth route but I'm not. I even searched for some sort of master bee/package/queen supplier list and didn't find one. Maybe I am using the wrong search terms or something. But I wasn't about to give up so I thought I would ask here.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

so, buy a package, get a russian queen and requeen the package after they get some work done. I always feel I have to say this though.... don't get caught up on any pre-conceived notions that certain bees are better than others. There's no way to tell if that package queen is in the top 1% until you give it a go. You also want to look at your beekeeping goals. Certain bees meet different goals better even though they migh thave drawbacks to your area or the way you want the bees to manage themselves during dearth's etc...


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## NAVET (Aug 16, 2014)

I am not expecting miracles. I do want to start with TF bees in order to make staying TF easier. I am reading / finding that bee's have personality and that is dictated by season or location or which way the wind is blowing! Essentially there is no real way to tell what bee is going to act in what way. There are generalities sure, but there is also the exception to the rule. I'd like to start with bees that TEND to be more hygienic than others TEND to be. Again, is it a hard, fast rule? No. But I am playing the odds.
I'd prefer not to buy a package and then re-queen but I am also not completely opposed to it.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

NAVET said:


> I'd prefer not to buy a package and then re-queen


Why not? Please explain.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I'll tell you this too then... I've bought TF bees.... 12-14 year TF operations.... didn't hold up one year at my location.... Honestly, TF is more of a goal to work towards, not something that just happens unless you're in the right location with the right genetics. You may find a package at your location can be TF year one, I'm just saying, the way you're setting your expectations, it's probably going to be disapointing.


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## NAVET (Aug 16, 2014)

AstroBee The idea of buying a package, with a queen already, and then destroying her just to introduce a new queen seems a bit... well... wasteful? There is a queen already and I don't know if she is going to be good or bad so I can't see killing her just because. I could see re-queening if she isn't performing in some way but to replace her just because seems wrong in some way.

JRG13 I understand your sentiment. All I can say is this. I know a beek and have been chatting back and forth by email and if his mite levels stay low enough, he is TF and he lets the bees handle their business. IF for some reason the mite levels rise above a certain level, then he treats. If his colony stays strong and the bee count is up then all is well and if not then all is not well. The point is, I understand that it may or may not stay or start TF. I'd just like to be as TF as I can possibly be. It is about colony genetics as much as environment and I just want to start with the odds in my favor that's all.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Take a look at B Weaver out of Texas.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

NAVET said:


> AstroBee The idea of buying a package, with a queen already, and then destroying her just to introduce a new queen seems a bit... well... wasteful? There is a queen already and I don't know if she is going to be good or bad so I can't see killing her just because. I could see re-queening if she isn't performing in some way but to replace her just because seems wrong in some way.


Why in the world would you assume you have to kill her? Place an ad on craigslist for a free queen and your phone ring off the hook. Shoot, there a place here where you can give stuff away. Lots of options.


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## NAVET (Aug 16, 2014)

Honestly I never considered just giving her away.


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

Try to contact Kent Williams in Ky. He can probably help you out. I don't have a contact number for him but I have bought queens from him through a friend. I think his Ky. operations are mostly treatment free.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Give her away? No, you find a Russian Queen, then make a split off the package to use the Russian Queen for, and now you have two colonies....


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

JRG13 said:


> Give her away? No, you find a Russian Queen, then make a split off the package to use the Russian Queen for, and now you have two colonies....


+100. use her...you'll ALWAYS need more hives. It's just a given. heck you should have 2 just to start out with anyway. You'll need even more than that if you want resources (drawn comb)to have ready for splits and have some wax in the honey supers.


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## NAVET (Aug 16, 2014)

Time to be honest. Buying 2 packages, making a split off 1 and ending up with 3 colonies is a bit more than I'm willing to tackle as a new beekeeper.


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## Arc-n-spark (Mar 19, 2013)

My first year I started with 2 packages and one of them swarmed. I caught it and ended up with 3. The bees have their own ideas about what you're willing to tackle. As far as TF packages I purchased 2 this spring from one of the suppliers listed above and I will say I was not impressed. Maybe it was just a rough spring but I think I will try B Weaver next.


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## NAVET (Aug 16, 2014)

All I can do is hope they don't swarm as I'll only have 2 Top Bar Hives.


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