# 10 frame wide vs ten frame tall swarm box



## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I thought about that too.
Then I thought handling a big, heavy, tall, skinny box climbing down a ladder.

There are a lot of ways to trap swarms without the ladder.

I think the idea has potential.

But consider how you are going to handle and transport the vertical box of bees.

Let us know how it works out


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## Maryland Beekeeper (Nov 1, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan to me. I am trying cardboard tubes this year with similar thought in mind. 
Drew


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

For me the weight isn't much difference. They are made out of white pine which is a lot less weight. Thin metal bottoms and next to nothing tops. I thought when I cobbled together, the seams would be good handles. Awkward,,,,,,jury out on that one. I'm not a big fan of ladders so I avoid that AMAP. 
I tried SONA tubes one year. (cardboard tubes for cement forms from Lowes) Did not catch any but I've learned a lot more since those days. A lot of work to make tops and bottoms to last one season. The weather takes it's toll. I make my own boxes so it works for me to cycle older deeps ect. into the trap line. Tying comb into a frame is an education and it is ok when necessary but if I can avoid it, I will. Old comb is such a good attractant and it goes right into the new hive box waiting for them You can fit one lang frame in a 20" sona tube but if you do not get the swarm with in days, they will fill the top with their comb. Just some thoughts. Thanks
AAAhhhhh Aristotle,,,,,LOL I know him. 
Rick


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Rick..

I'm not talking about the weight of the empty box, so much as the cumbersomeness of the higher center of gravity of the tall skinny when it is full.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

AAhh,,,,good point I'll keep in mind when setting them up and location. 
Thanks
Rick


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## Steven Tervort (Feb 16, 2012)

Hey Rick, last year I did exactly what you describe. I had a few extra nucs laying around, and wanted to have the volume of a 10 frame box for my swarm traps. I just tied the 2 boxes together with rope, and hoisted them up in a tree. I caught one swarm last year, and it was in the double nuc set up this way. I didn't have any problems taking the hive home (in my chevy cavalier). I just kept the boxes fastened together with rope, and wrapped some duct tape around the bottom board, between the supers, and between the hive and the cover so bees wouldn't get out and sting me. I had to travel quite a ways, so the swarm traps that I set up this way had a screen that I attached to the bottom for ventilation just in case I had to transport them(here is a picture). I do have to add that I don't find any difference between 10 frame wide and 10 frame tall. I did find it easier to hoist the boxes into the trees. The 10 frame boxes are awkward and don't sit right.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Awesome Steven thanks,
Nice website. When you hoist them up into a tree, are they literally free swinging, against the tree?? I've never tried that. Always built a platform secured to the tree with ratchet straps. I do not like ladders so height becomes an issue. I do think height helps a lot although I did catch a swarm in an abandoned hive on the ground in my drive way at my house. They were not my bees 
Would be interesting to put one of each at the same location and see which gets chosen if I get lucky again.
Rick


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

Rick 1456 said:


> My thoughts are they may be more attractive since bees seemingly like the tall and narrow (trees) vs the double wide option LOL. Been lived in and will have old comb and LGO.
> Rick


I think there is some truth to the "tall and narrow" part you mention. I think you will also do better because you are increasing your volume to a more satisfactory size that a bee is looking for in a home (40 Liters). All things point to a successful trapping...good luck!!

Question - how many frames do you put in your trap, and what combinations of frames do you use (foundation, foundationless, drawn)?


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

I've read Don "the fat beeman" uses the tall nuc configurations in his bee raising business because the bees like it/do better. I have one hive from a split I did last year that started as a five frame nuc and is now three nucs tall. They really took off but I think/hope the queen has something to do with some of that. (hope anyway) 
I am using two drawn foundation frames and locate those on the 1 and 10 position. The remainder are are foundationless frames that are grooved top and bottom with a Popsicle stick waxed in the top groove. Eventually it will be drawn foundationless since that is the direction I'm going. I had the foundation in the middle and the swarm occupied it rather fast. Queen didn't lay in it. She waited till they had drawn new comb. They did put the honey they brought with them in the drawn comb so I left it. With the 1 and 10 I can get that out before they get too involved in it.
Rick


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## Steven Tervort (Feb 16, 2012)

> When you hoist them up into a tree, are they literally free swinging, against the tree?


I just throw a rope over a crotch in the tree that is close to the trunk. I pull the box up so it is tight against the tree then tie the rope off. The boxes don't move. 


> I do think height helps a lot although I did catch a swarm in an abandoned hive on the ground in my drive way at my house.


I have had more luck with the ones I hang higher, but I have caught a few on fence posts that were only 5 feet off the ground. Nothing scientific about it just going off my experience so far. I'm going to be trying a few new things this year to see if I can't come up with some more biased opinions.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

One thing I'm going to try new is the entrance. I had a guy show me a hive that had taken up residence in the soffet of his house. The roof trim had warped and the bees gained access by the space created where the roof meets the trim. Looked like about 1/2 inch by 6 inches. Thought that might be a good size. Keep most of the larger vermin out I would think. Put the boxes up too early and the birds want to nest in them. Definitely be doin the rope in the crotch this year. Good technique  Appreciated.
Rick


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## Steven Tervort (Feb 16, 2012)

I know one problem I have had is transporting the bees. If I have to travel with them very far I don't like having the box sealed up completely they really start going crazy. On my nuc boxes, I have a piece of scrap that swivels so that I can easily close off the entrance completely. I was thinking of drilling a hole through the piece of scrap and placing a screen over that. That way the bees can ventilate through the entrance while not being able to get out.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Sounds similar. I make my nuc boxes. The holes are 3/4 inch with a piece of #8 screwed that rotates into place to cover. I still staple it. Bees can pour out of a space you think they can not. It is almost a guarantee it would catch on something and then there is a problem. 
Rick


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

Rick 1456 said:


> One thing I'm going to try new is the entrance. I had a guy show me a hive that had taken up residence in the soffet of his house. The roof trim had warped and the bees gained access by the space created where the roof meets the trim. Looked like about 1/2 inch by 6 inches. Thought that might be a good size. Keep most of the larger vermin out I would think. Put the boxes up too early and the birds want to nest in them. Definitely be doin the rope in the crotch this year. Good technique  Appreciated.
> Rick


Here's a pic of a few of the different swarm traps I've got. The one in the middle has an entrance similar to what you are talking about...the end is just 1/4" shorter than the other side.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

O.K. I can type now, it is half time LOL,,,,,,
Yep, that's neat. I just wonder if bees, "notice" an opening like that more if there are no "bait" odors to draw them in. 
Thanks
Rick
Back to the game


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