# another way to use FGMO



## gardenbees (May 8, 2005)

An organic beekeeper near me says that he fogs but sometimes soaks wool, cotton or some other organic material in FGMO and places it on top of the frames. He claims that in the process of chewing it up and dragging it to the front door it spreads it around the hive well enough to control mites. What do you all think? I think it's worth a try and would be pretty easy to do. Theresa.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Dr R has a method using cords (upulstory cord) soaked in FGMO and thymol. Same concept


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Perhaps someone still has the recipe???


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Excerpt from Dr R's paper prior to his departure.


FGMO-THYMOL FORMULA FOR CORDS AND BURGESS FOGGER
(Do not use thymol in your formula with honey supers on)
The purpose of the FGMO-Thymol for these formulae is to obtain a concentration of thymol no higher than 5.49% thymol for the fogger and 2.53% thymol for the emulsion soaked cords.

Emulsion soaked cords

1000 cc mineral oil @ 0.86 density
(*) (860 grams (30.34 oz.))
100 grams (3.53 oz.) thymol
1000 grams honey (2-1/4 pounds)
1000 grams beeswax (2-1/4 pounds)
100 pieces of cotton cord (40 inches long each)
Add the weight of the ingredients without the cords
Divide into 100 grams thymol

Thus:
100 = 2.53 % thymol
3960 total weight

[ March 28, 2006, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Sundance ]


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

gardenbees
Dr.Pedro Rodriguez has spent some 12 years testing,changing,improving and developing his protocol with FGMO as a varroa control.The last 3 plus years I spent liasing with him with the view to having FGMO approved for use in New Zealand beehives.New Zealand has been the first in the world to gain approval for use to a code of practice.Initially the cord that Dr.Rodriguez used was torn up and removed from the hive by the bees.He has been very carefull when selecting mediums for the FGMO emulsion so that they will not end up in the honey.The cord he now uses is not torn up by the bees and is recycled in the prepared emulsion before it becomes propolised by the bees.Sundance has posted the formula.It is important to make it very clear that raw FGMO will kill bees.The cords are only to be soaked in the prepared emulsion as per the formula of Dr.Rodriguez.At the present Time Dr.Rodriguez is not well.I suggest you email him at [email protected] He is scheduled to return to Spain about now.He will reply,but it must be remembered he has upto 300 messages a day.Keep trying.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>An organic beekeeper near me says that he fogs but sometimes soaks wool, cotton or some other organic material in FGMO and places it on top of the frames. He claims that in the process of chewing it up and dragging it to the front door it spreads it around the hive well enough to control mites. What do you all think?

As everyone has pointed out, this is just a variation on Dr. Rodriguez's method. His has been worked out to be more effective, but it's probbaly somewhat effective.

> I think it's worth a try and would be pretty easy to do.

Just painting some on the top bars is even eaiser.







But the cords last longer.


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## gardenbees (May 8, 2005)

Is the thymol that's mentioned in the recipe the same as Mita-A-thol that's sold by Brushy Bee and others? Does anyone know if thyme essential oil will do the same thing? And none of this should be done with the honey supers in place right? Theresa.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

No to essential oil. No to Mita thol, that menthol.

ApiLifeVar (spelling) is a thymol product.

Thymol crystals or powder (99.99% pure) will do the job.

An yes, it should not be used just prior to and during honey flow.


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## JJ (Jun 22, 2004)

Hi Theresa, If you get a chance write to the Good Dr. and he will be more than glad to answer all your questions. If you go by the way Pedro has tested you will be sure not to make any mistakes. Take care JJ


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## gardenbees (May 8, 2005)

Where do you all get the thymol? The apilife var that I have seen comes in wafers not crystals. Do you grind the wafers up to make a powder? I don't feel right bothering the doctor especially if he's in ill health and has to answer so many emails daily. Hope you all don't mind my questions. Theresa.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Where do you all get the thymol?

Drug stores can usually order it. Other places on the web sell it.

>The apilife var that I have seen comes in wafers not crystals. Do you grind the wafers up to make a powder?

No. You need thymol crystals.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

ApiLifeVar is a mixture of lots of stuff with some thymol crystals incorporated.

Thymol shouldn't cost you more than $15 for 100 grams.

Drug store is a good lead.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Gardenbees, I sent you a PM.


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## gardenbees (May 8, 2005)

Thanks all of you. I will be giving this a try this fall. I didn't treat last fall and hope I don't live to regret it. I have many hobbies but this one has the sharpest learning curve of any of them. Theresa.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

My learning curve was nearly vertical last year!!!


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I've been at it for 30 years and my learning curve still hasn't crested.

Gardenbees, do you know how to read a pm??


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## gardenbees (May 8, 2005)

Yes, I got the pm. I think I'll try to find some thymol locally first but I'll send you a message if I run into trouble. Thanks for your help. Theresa.

[ March 30, 2006, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: gardenbees ]


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## louis1st (Oct 17, 2004)

Hi
my fogger is broken (spreads only very hot FGMO), and not really happy to spend this amount of money on another one yet.

I think i read somewhere on this forum, that at the begining, Dr Pedro used paper tissues covered in FGMO that he put on top of the hives, so i am very tempted to try but it seems like FGMO is dangerous for the bees if used by its own.
I am a bit confused...
can I use FGMO this way or not? (or could i also use some cords with only FGMO on them ?) 
If I can, how often do I need to replace the paper and what quantity can I use?

I only have a few hives so the recipe for the cords given above seems like to be more for a commercial beekeeper than me!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The idea for the cords is to maximize the exposure to FGMO for that application. Since putting cords or towels in usually involves a trip to the yard and unstacking all the boxes on the hive, you want to get your money's worth out of that. The cords will last longer. The towels will only last about a day.

You probably could use cords with just FGMO on them. I'm sure Dr. Rodriguez tried that but decides the emoulsion was more effective.

I have just painted FGOM on the top bars and it's somewhat effective but only for a short time. It also keeps them from building burr comb between the boxes.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I know this is redundant, but this is how I apply this same principle. I take blue "shop" towels from Walmart or any other store, most often found in the auto parts department.

I fold six shop towels over into 4 sections so they fit into a quart sized zip-lock baggy. Pour one cup of canola oil (the oil of my choice)and let them sit overnight. The oil is pretty much soaked up and the towels fully saturated.

In the field, I simply lay the shop towel over the top bars of the brood nest, still folded. It doesn't matter if you unfold it.

Some colonies shred it, some propolize it. Since I raise my own queens, I will choose my "breeder" queens from the shredding colonies. Though I don't know for sure, I think this shredding action is related to hygenic behavior.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## JJ (Jun 22, 2004)

Hi Grant, Just reading your last post about the canola oil on the shop towel are you using this for a control for mites? Take care JJ


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Canola oil is what I use in place of FGMO for mite control. I use it on shop towels and in my fogger, boltered by some essential oils.

This practice, however, has been vociferously disputed by the leading experts as falling outside the accepted conventions for FGMO. It is, however, what works for me.

FGMO is a petroleum by-product, not that there is anything wrong with that. Canola oil is a botanical oil. There have been some thoughts expressed in the ABJ by leading university personnel that the botanical oils may work better than the petroleum products.

Maybe so, maybe not. Lots of people report good success with FGMO so I say, "More power to ya!"

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Not trying to disagree, just pointing out the differences. The point of FGMO is that it doesn't go rancid and the point of the cords with emoulsion as opposed to shop towels is to maximize the return for the effort of putting them in. The cords will expose the bees over a longer period for the same work of putting them in. I'm sure the towels will work. Vegatable oil has it's appeal. The point many have tried to make is that there is plenty of research on FGMO, and not much that I know of on canola oil. Besides,isn't canola a GMO?


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

No disagreement taken. All opinions are respected by this beekeeper, even the crazy ones, even MY crazy ones. 

GMO? Beats me. I don't know that much about the plant genetics.

On an associated note: The May issue of the ABJ has an interesting disclaimer on page 397, the picture in the upper left hand corner of Chriss Werner. Chris also uses canola oil, and I guess like him, wants to emphasize that it works in MY operation, with MY bees (lots of ferals) and under MY conditions.

BTW, MB, congrats on 20K !

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## louis1st (Oct 17, 2004)

I did a quick search on the internet, and found that this canola oil method is used by some beekeepers with added wintergreen...

is there some other sort of oil we could use? (such as olive oil or sunflower oil)


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## brent.roberts (Dec 31, 2005)

I got some natural thymol from Dr Rodruigez directly. During our conversations he told me that ApilifeVar is made from synthesized thymol. Furthermore he told me that most thymol sold in the USA is synthesized. Prior to contacting him I had ordered some on the net. I asked him if he thought what I got was natural or synthetic and told him the label said Thynol, NF. He said the NF was the indicator that is was Newly Formulated synthetic.

Then and a couple times since, he has cautioned me that sythesized thymol has not done well in European testing. Seems it primarily affects the queens, reducing their activity and in a number cases actually killing the queens.

If you contact him directly he will ship you some of the natural Spanish made thymol.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

My guess is a number of beesource members have been using "synthetic" thymol. It would be interesting to hear if they had negative results.

Does anyone know what New Zealand has been using in regard to Thymol?

Here's a link to a Cuban trial that concluded ApiLifevar was indeed effective. It did not note any queen damage that I could see.

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/slovenia/en/esquijarosa.pdf


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Here's a bunch or research archives on beekeeping. There are a wide range of topics.

http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/Research/archives.htm


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

>Does anyone know what New Zealand has been using in regard to Thymol?

The thymol crystals being used in New Zealand is NE,standing for natural equivalent as stated on the product data sheet from the importer.

[ June 04, 2006, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Bob Russell ]


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks Bob, I was hoping to hear from you.

I take NE to mean synthetic?? And how is the synthetic working down under?


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

somebody bought me some of the thymol NF and it seems to work great.

i first tried it last fall and the white board was covered with dead mites within only five hours (my hives made it through winter just fine).

right now my hives are doing very well. last time i tried it (a couple weeks ago) i found only one mite out of nine hives (24 hr drop).

i don't see any signs of queen loss (my hives are bursting at the seams).

i've wondered what the NF meant and i'm glad someone asked.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

I tested some Thymol strips with a great result. I put a strip in each hive and the bees did the rest. 
As soon as the Thymol was gone (evaporated) bees shred the strip and drop it outside. I got the strips here from a bee supplier and I found them on the website from the Vaporizer manufacturer in the US. 
http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I had seen that site Ax and was intrigued. Wish that product were available here.


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