# How’s everyone’s bees look this winter?



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Chatting with a guy from California who has contracted his hives for $195 loaded, 8 frames plus. 
He figured the broker and placement would ad another $30, so that’s $225.

He was talking about having a heavy cull this fall. Mites,


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## couesbro (Feb 4, 2017)

I was talking with one of our state's bigger beekeepers with 40 years experience and he was sending a semi load of hives to almonds for the first time ever this year. We had Mother Nature against us this year with a very cold, wet April, an extremely hot May, a drought in June, July, August followed by almost daily rain in Sept. It seems as though the queens shut down about 4 weeks early this year. He felt that the bees did not have adequate natural stores of pollen and feared that he would have heavy losses over this coming winter. He is hoping that having some bees in almonds they will gain protein and survive the winter. He has grave misgivings about sending them out of state to be exposed to mites loads, stress of moving, etc. 

The transportation costs to and from almonds plus the other risks might be outweighed by having the bees survive. He feels that it is a calculated gamble with hives that could be dead bees walking here at home.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Looking good when we fed and then wrapped. Heavy enough after feeding. Nice size to the clusters. Lots of clusters from top under inner cover to bottom entrance. Low mite loads this year.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

greetings ian. i know your question was for the big timers but just wanted to say hi and hope all is well with you and yours.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

couesbro said:


> I was talking with one of our state's bigger beekeepers with 40 years experience and he was sending a semi load of hives to almonds for the first time ever this year. We had Mother Nature against us this year with a very cold, wet April, an extremely hot May, a drought in June, July, August followed by almost daily rain in Sept. It seems as though the queens shut down about 4 weeks early this year. .


Ha! That sounds exactly like what I had seen this year! 

My hives shut down early. Small winter nests going in. But I have good queens, zero mites and well fed. The clusters look content in the shed.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

squarepeg said:


> greetings ian. i know your question was for the big timers but just wanted to say hi and hope all is well with you and yours.


Big timers, I think there will be some that question my presence on here pretending to be a big timer 

Hello right back, squarepeg. I have not been here for a while 

While I was in Wisconsin, at the WHPA, in the crowd I heard “red ball of fire!” , **** if it was Roland! Ha!
I’m meeting beesource beekeepers all over the place.


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## farmdon (Jan 2, 2007)

The holding yard counts directly reflect the hive locations they came from. The locations with great pollen are strong with 8 plus frames. The marginal locations are a mixed bag with too many 3 framers. I have kicked them down to singles with nutrabee on top and sugar cake as required. Winter is mild here, but at 20-40F its hard for 3 framers to do anything but maybe survive.
During the fall, I tried ultrabee and got my butt handed to me with SHB larva. I hope Nutrabee will give me options next year.
I used OAV through the growing season and ended at 2/100 in November so I added 1 additional single treatment. I will send 1 load to almonds.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

Ian, you sell yourself short; you may be the most widely known beekeeper around. You certainly the most open and share more "secrets" than others. We really appreciate your video efforts and insight.

Even with a small SHB load in the hive any patty left for more than 3 days will be a mess. I've tried dry in a feeder inside the hive, but they don't seem to touch that at all. If left too long it takes on moisture and the SHB are right there. Open feeding seems to be the only way I can use pollen sub.


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## Beetastic (Apr 12, 2011)

Ian said:


> Chatting with a guy from California who has contracted his hives for $195 loaded, 8 frames plus.
> He figured the broker and placement would ad another $30, so that’s $225.
> 
> He was talking about having a heavy cull this fall. Mites,


$225 is a premium price. I'm hearing $195 all in. My bees look good. Some look weak. A few are bumping. I'd say I am averaging 5-ish frames. Mustard and other pollens are starting to flow in. I should see a 2-4 frame increase by the time mid February is here. Just need some nice flying days, although can't really complain about the recent rains. One yard was hit harder than most with a very bad year of yellow jackets. I spoke with some beekeepers who said it was the worst they've seen it in over a decade. I should have been more proactive, but failed to act. They definitely took down a few smaller colonies that would have made it. And I think they stressed another dozen or so. Next year I won't play so nice.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

texanbelchers said:


> Ian, you sell yourself short; you may be the most widely known beekeeper around. You certainly the most open and share more "secrets" than others. We really appreciate your video efforts and insight.
> .


Not secrets, just the basics. I share my philosophy on the bee world as we interact with agriculture and nature.
In this business, the secrets lie around the edges. The things done without knowing it. Ever hear of the 10,000 rule? All the beekeeper secrets expose themselves about at that time of your career. Beekeepers can no longer hide their management, as a 10,000 hr beekeeper can simply see through conversations. That is this businesses real secret to knowing the secrets. 

Any of those commercials that get restless with my openness and willing to invest into the beekeepers of our industry can just look back and realize they are getting worked up because I’m teaching my philosophy of the basics. If the basics are our secret, then our industry truly is doomed ... lol


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Ian
I do love some of the simple time saving little things that I see you do that seems to make a lot of work get done efficiently.
Cheers
gww


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Our bees had lower mite levels than we had seen in years coming into the fall. All signs were good that we would have large, healthy winter clusters until (apparently) random bee crashes happened late in the game. It seemed like yards were really good or really bad. To me it was a classic virus situation. Yards with high populations in late September suddenly had piles of dead bees in the entrances just a few a few weeks later. Not at all the classic late season mite collapses complete with "shotgun" brood patterns which we are all accustomed to seeing. Very frustrating to say the least. All new young queens, all substantially managed in the same way yet widely varying results. So it goes in this business. No matter how many years you do this it seems every year has a few new twists. 
I have a little saying when things go badly. If I can complete the following sentence accurately then its a mistake I made that I won't repeat as some things are poor management and some are bad luck. The sentence: "If only I had __________ this wouldn't have happened". In this case I don't know how to fill in the blank. We made the decision to stay out of California and to double down on mite control. We had a marvelous spring with great matings and a perfect buildup flow. Our bees couldn't have looked any better on June 1st or September 1st for that matter. All isnt lost, we have lots of strong surviving hives that have had 4 rounds of OA vapor and are so far experiencing a mild winter in Texas and alcohol washes rarely show a single mite. The glass is half full, not half empty.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

jim lyon said:


> Yards with high populations in late September suddenly had piles of dead bees in the entrances just a few a few weeks later. Not at all the classic late season mite collapses complete with "shotgun" brood patterns which we are all accustomed to seein


I have one colony that has double the population of what I normally see at this time of year. I guess I had better keep an eye on it.


Alex


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Ian - I do get a "Day Pass" once in a while.

Jim. Location, Location, Location. We have intentionaly moved hive around from good yards to bad yards, and vice versa. The only variable that follows is location. I am coming to the conclusion that if mites are controlled, and nutrition is adequate, it is the location that is the problem.

Crazy Roiand


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## Marcin (Jun 15, 2011)

Roland said:


> I am coming to the conclusion that if mites are controlled, and nutrition is adequate, it is the location that is the problem.
> Crazy Roiand


Hi Roland,
when you say "location is the problem" are you referring to just bad location in terms of forage, or that there is too many bees in the area to support healthy hives?


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## Richinbama (Jan 15, 2018)

Hi Ian, so far my bees are doing pretty well here in North Alabama. So. U.s. 
My first winter with the bees. Feeding the bees,, as a few were a bit light going into our warm, but winter season. Thanks for all your videos. !!! I like the practical approach you have. Also, I like your commercial experience, and it really applies to allot of us our here, big and small. It is a business, and should be looked at as so. But, very much a hobby as well. Thanks, Richard


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Roland said:


> Ian - I do get a "Day Pass" once in a while.
> 
> Jim. Location, Location, Location. We have intentionaly moved hive around from good yards to bad yards, and vice versa. The only variable that follows is location. I am coming to the conclusion that if mites are controlled, and nutrition is adequate, it is the location that is the problem.
> 
> Crazy Roiand


I came to the conclusion years ago that the two primary criteria that determine winter cluster strength are a strong fall flow and timely and effective mite treatments. Yes, some areas regularly produce stronger bees than other areas but this year there seemed to be another dynamic at play that seemed to defy any generalization. You simply didn't know what the heck you were going to find from one yard to the next even though they may have been separated by just a few miles.


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## Maybee Apiaries (Jun 23, 2016)

Roland said:


> Ian - I do get a "Day Pass" once in a while.
> 
> Jim. Location, Location, Location. We have intentionaly moved hive around from good yards to bad yards, and vice versa. The only variable that follows is location. I am coming to the conclusion that if mites are controlled, and nutrition is adequate, it is the location that is the problem.
> 
> Crazy Roiand


I mostly agree with that. We have yards that consistently do well, and shouldn’t, and yards that do poorly in what seems to be the perfect setting. I’ve stopped the insanity and used the poor yards to fill my overwintering building. Everything else stays where it is. 
I would agree with Jim’s earlier post about viruses, and suspect them to be the culprit when mites and lack of nutrition aren’t.


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## Beetastic (Apr 12, 2011)

The stress for me this year is getting my bees to a certain frame count. I have some three framers I know will explode once warmer days and flowers show up, but they aren't worth much in the almond game. It's certainly been interesting transitioning into the world of pollination. Mite counts are low at least. I took a peek in a few of the calmer colonies, and there are some nice brood patterns. Hopefully 2 cycles will see the increases I am betting on. 

Regarding locations. For me it's a mixed bag. Some years location A is great. The next it's location B. I don't see a correlation of healthy vs sick based on location in my operation. It's more about young healthy queens, well fed colonies, and low mite numbers. 

I split too aggressively late in the summer this year, and now am seeing small colonies. It was the ever foolish idea to boost numbers. But now I will have to work and stress twice as hard to end up with the same amount of qualifying colonies as I had before I made the decision to split. Sometimes gambles don't pay off


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jim lyon said:


> I came to the conclusion years ago that the two primary criteria that determine winter cluster strength are a strong fall flow and timely and effective mite treatments. Yes, some areas regularly produce stronger bees than other areas but this year there seemed to be another dynamic at play that seemed to defy any generalization. You simply didn't know what the heck you were going to find from one yard to the next even though they may have been separated by just a few miles.


I know you know what Roland is on about. Pesticides. Any thoughts towards that? 

My hives are small because of one noticeable thing. They simply shut down in August. I’m hoping for a short winter.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Jim, did you send any samples away for viral testing? Or any pollen away for Chem analysis ?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> I came to the conclusion years ago that the two primary criteria that determine winter cluster strength are a strong fall flow and timely and effective mite treatments.


Agreed. I've seen big winter losses here in New England because of late season drought. With an average mite load in August, and little brood rearing, those mites invade that bit of brood and end of story. We had this a few years ago. Massive losses in NH and MA. I fed my bees early enough, and with the Goldenrod pollen flow...they went to brood rearing and wintered well.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Marcin wrote:

Hi Roland,
when you say "location is the problem" are you referring to just bad location in terms of forage, or that there is too many bees in the area to support healthy hives? 

None of the above. Seeing as Ian has "outed" me, yes, I suspect pesticide, including herbicides. We see sudden "bad things", that can not be easily explained by slow acting mites or viruses. On several occasions we where lucky and acidentaly moved a hive in right after the event. It is the only hive alive two weeks later. 

Crazy Roland
"


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Roland said:


> I suspect pesticide, including herbicides. "


Hi Roland! Did you send a bunch of bees to the lab to check your suspicions?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Suspect pesticides, 
We have labs to confirm poisoning. 
Perhaps there are more issues at play which are compounding the problem


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Sure I did , for 396 Dollars American. A pile of nice fresh bees, sent on dry ice.(The hives where 6 deeps of bees, making 150lbs each, gone in 10 days) They found nothing, but in another sample, of comb, they did find coumophos at a level higher than could explained by contaminated foundation.(We NEVER used coumophos). Call me crazy, but 792 dollars to get suspicious data in not a good investment.

Crazy Roland


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Roland said:


> Sure I did , for 396 Dollars American. A pile of nice fresh bees, sent on dry ice.(The hives where 6 deeps of bees, making 150lbs each, gone in 10 days) They found nothing, but in another sample, of comb, they did find coumophos at a level higher than could explained by contaminated foundation.(We NEVER used coumophos). Call me crazy, but 792 dollars to get suspicious data in not a good investment.
> 
> Crazy Roland


I hear that, it's how testing goes sometimes though... you do get to rule out some things at least though.... maybe. We do it in the plant business too, multiple tests done, lots of money spent to tell you plants are disease free or at least don't have the disease you were testing for and you then get to scratch your head some more and wonder what do they really have then.....


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Roland said:


> Sure I did , for 396 Dollars American. A pile of nice fresh bees, sent on dry ice.(The hives where 6 deeps of bees, making 150lbs each, gone in 10 days) They found nothing, but in another sample, of comb, they did find coumophos at a level higher than could explained by contaminated foundation.(We NEVER used coumophos). Call me crazy, but 792 dollars to get suspicious data in not a good investment.
> 
> Crazy Roland


“Coumaphos is an insecticide used for control of a wide variety of livestock insects, including cattle grubs, screw-worms, lice, scabies, flies, and ticks. It is used against ectoparasites, which are insects that live on the outside of host animals such as sheep, goats, horses, pigs, and poultry. It is added to cattle and poultry feed to control the development of fly larvae that breed in manure.” http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/coumaphos-ext.html

Is Coumaphos poisoning to bees from protein feed or dip from neighboring operations a thing? If the problem was Coumaphos, would the bees themselves be expected to have tested positive?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I did too
Found Amitraz and a wee bit of neonc


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## R055 (Jun 9, 2018)

Took a semi load to almond field yesterday. All rain next week there meanwhile sunny where I took them from(washington). Good thing I left the covers on all the pallets.


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## soarwitheagles (May 23, 2015)

Here, the bees overwintered much better than last year. Then, we had super early eucalyptus bloom begin in Dec. Euc bloom really picked up in Jan. and now it has kick started all colonies. Queens laying like crazy, fresh, bright white comb, massive foraging. This hasn't happened here in the last three years and it may be due to good rain.

All colonies not near a blooming euc forest were still asleep/hibernation with little to no activity. Within two days of trucking them to the eucs, they take off vertical with radical difference. Now we are wishing we had taken all colonies to the euc forests last month...

Planning on taking all colonies to local almond orchards first week of Feb.


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

Virginia seems to be having good winter bee health so far (after a rough 2017-2018 winter), with strange spring and summer weather featuring hotter and wetter than usual, a half-harvest, but a good fall flow.


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