# I need advice on how to kill Ants around my bee hive



## Beorn

Try putting some cinnamon down. Around the base of the hive first. You'll need to reapply after rain. I had a really bad ant problem in between my hive top covers. I put some down and they went away.

Buy in bulk from a local discount store. You're trying to get rid of ants not bake scones for the county fair


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## Merlyn Votaw

Put 2 or 3 leaves of peppermint or spearmint on top of the frames. Won't hurt the bees and ants will be gone in 1 day


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## Mike Snodgrass

Terro ant traps should work, some folks go with a mix of Borax detergent and sugar. Bottom line is im new and used the search function to find out what to do...You can to!:thumbsup:


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## Throttlebender

Mike Snodgrass said:


> Terro ant traps should work, some folks go with a mix of Borax detergent and sugar. Bottom line is im new and used the search function to find out what to do...You can to!:thumbsup:


Or he could just post the question and get some interaction on a social forum...and perhaps some updated methods:thumbsup:


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## Bens-Bees

You can put ant-guards on your hive stand... they are basically just an oil trap that prevents the ants from crawling up to the hive.


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## summer1052

Yes, they can affect the bees. The more aggressive the ant the worse it can be.

Here in TX, I have fire ants. I have seen them take down a strong hive in under 7 days. 

1. Make sure there is no vegetation near the hive that the ants can march up and access the hive stand with.

2. Cinnamon is a good deterrent for what we call "sugar ants" down here. It is also great inside, as it's non toxic. It does not do anything to fire ants, alas.

3. A barrier of some sort on the legs of the hive stands is best. I have tried water, oil, and tanglefoot to no avail. The fire ants just marched on the backs of their dead bretheren to get to the hive. I use trays filled with ant granules under the legs.

4. Think physical, not a spray.

Good luck!
Summer


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## Chick

You can mix up soapy water, like kids blow bubbles with, and pour it on the mound. The soap will bubble over the ant's breathing holes, and suffocate them. Boiling water will do the trick too.


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## daknoodle

There is an organic ant spray that is safe for pets and humans that Target and WalMart are starting to carry. Its mostly a bunch of EO's with the main being orange oil I believe. The ants (including Texas fire ants) wont cross it for about a week or more after spraying it. You can also go to a plant nursery and they usually have an organic ant killer thats based on orange oil and other EO's that is much cheaper and in a bulk bottle.

If this is sprayed directly on the bees I believe it will kill them, but I just coat the legs of the stand with it and the bees don't go near it. It also works as a barrier for your house.


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## MichaelShantz

I had Argentine ants going into my hive. I tried Terro, the ants ate it but kept going into the hive, so I put the hive on wooden blocks in tunafish cans filled with vegetable oil and no more ant problem. Once in a while a bee will get in the can and die but not many. See pic
http://picasaweb.google.com/MichaelJShantz/BeeHive4302010#5466795046206986082


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## HadesHnds

Beautiful wood on your beehive Michael! I'm a new beekeeper in Saratoga-was pleasantly surprised to see someone close by on this forum. I have a Warre hive and while waiting for the diatomaceous earth (food grade, coming from Tennessee by mail order. Stupid new beekeeper me-who knew you could buy the stuff at a local feed store??!!) to keep the ants out, they marched two by two and then some into my hive.My "pro" friends, none of whom have a Warre, told me not to worry-that the bees would take care of the ants.Well, it was the other way around-the ants ate the bees and the honey.Then my bees swarmed! 
Fortunately I had a clean brood box and rescued them, rebuilt my hive stand a la Michael's picture with the tuna cans, put cinnamon everwhere, along with the DE and am hoping and praying it will work. But my population has been cut to about 25% of the original number of bees, and I'm wondering if they'll make it. I'm here in sunny Cali, where there's forage year round. Is there anything else I can do to help my poor bees? Laura


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## G'ville beek

kill em , collect them, and roast over open fire, grind them up in a mortar and pedestal, sprinkle the dust in the hive and around the hive. Biodynamic method...


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## MichaelShantz

Hades Hounds,
I've switched to using PVC ant moats eg. https://picasaweb.google.com/MichaelJShantz/BeeHive4302010#5600783222214281570 and that totally solves the problem with the Argentine ants. Do you attend the Santa Clara bee guild meetings? They are very helpful.
http://www.santaclarabeeguild.blogspot.com/ My bees mostly prowl the hills of the Fremont Older Open Space that borders Saratoga and Cupertino.


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## minz

Another post told me to put a 2:1 sugar (1 cu water) with a tsp of borax. I took a few water and soda bottles and put some 1/8” holes in them with my drill and put a little in each one. Within the week the ants were gone so I did it in my raspberries, strawberries and blueberries. Some of the jars were full of dead ants so maybe it got too strong with the heat? I was eating berries out of the garden last night and even the over ripe ones did not have ants so I killed out most of them with the cost of the bottle deposits!


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## Cedar Hill

I know that this sounds simplistic but just try it, you might be surprised. It will NOT work with fire ants. The reason the ant nests are in between your outer covers and inner covers is because the moisture is trapped there. Simply raise the front of the the outer cover so that it rests on the edge of the front of your inner cover and the problem resolves itself. You might also push back your inner cover from the front edge of your top hive body (upper entrance). Works for me here in Massachusetts. Keep it simple. OMTCW


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## julysun

Minz has the answer! Worked for me! The ants are more attracted to the bait bottles than the defended hive, works like a charm.


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## ccar2000

I use Diatomaceous earth around the hive stand supports, works for me!


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## HadesHnds

Dear Cedar Hill, great advice but alas! Silly me-I forgot to mention that I have a Warre hive so it doesn't have an inner and outer cover. Turns out the windy weird weather we've been having has blown leaves into my oil moats and they were going across the "bridges". I need to raise my hive up more-not sure how to do that without taking it totally apart. I'm making the poison water bottle thing Minz suggested, so hopefully that will work. I'm so grateful for everybody's advice! Laura


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## mmmooretx

Being in Houston we have a big issue with fire ants. After reading a lot here I built a 2X4 frame for 2 hives, Lang. 10 frame, with a 2' work table in between with 1/2" pipe legs. I put the legs in vitamin water bottles, bottom cut out, with 2" of veg. oil, above them I put plastic glass with silicone to hold in place as a rain shield. I also put the whole stand on top of garden/weed cloth to keep growth down and every couple of weeks sprinkle Diatomaceous earth around the edge. As a concept improvement I will replace the plastic cups with pot pie tins that sit on top of heater hose clamps which will make it easier to re-fill the oil. Mineral oil would also be good. On the pipe bottoms I left the orange plastic thread protectors on so the pipe would not cut the vitamin water bottle lids and to drain just unscrew the bottle and let the oil run out and re-screw the bottle back to the lid, no hive/stand lifting needed.
So far this has worked for me, but I got all the data from this fantastic site. Good luck.


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## julysun

julysun 
Join Date
Apr 2012
Location
Baytown, TX., USA.
Posts
110
Re: I need advice on how to kill Ants around my bee hive
Minz has the answer! Worked for me! The ants are more attracted to the bait bottles than the defended hive, works like a charm.
Reply Reply With Quote :applause::applause::applause:


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## bingo223

Bait bottles work and I have my hives' stilts in buckets do any critters cannot make it across the moat.


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## julysun

Renewed my bait jar today, 1;1;1;1 water, sugar, grape jelly,Boric Acid (Roach Proof). Set the jar under the elevated hive to keep it out of the rain, the ants go for it rather than the defended honey. Bees cannot get to the bait. :applause:


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## Mark FrontYardHoney

I just tried cinnamon sticks and it seems to be doing the trick. After two days, ant traffic is non-existent in the hive and bee traffic is slightly up! Go brood go! We need more girls out there!


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## rniles

Take few ant and tie each to a toothpick and post them around the hive. Should scare the rest away.


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## Trittybee

Throttlebender said:


> Or he could just post the question and get some interaction on a social forum...and perhaps some updated methods:thumbsup:


Can I ask where you put the cinnamon sticks?


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## Mark FrontYardHoney

I laid the sticks down on top of my hive stand and under the hive base. They are actually holding up the hive... Wouldn't really work when the honey flow is on... Too heavy.

Bad news... It wasn't permanent. The ants are back. I guess you need to keep the sticks fresh maybe the rains diminished their toxicity.

I'm trying sugar borax jars under the hive now. Just out out the bait today.


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## Trittybee

Mark FrontYardHoney said:


> I laid the sticks down on top of my hive stand and under the hive base. They are actually holding up the hive... Wouldn't really work when the honey flow is on... Too heavy.
> 
> Bad news... It wasn't permanent. The ants are back. I guess you need to keep the sticks fresh maybe the rains diminished their toxicity.
> 
> I'm trying sugar borax jars under the hive now. Just out out the bait today.


Thanks Mark - my husband also put out the sugar/borax/jam bait a few hours ago. We'll see how that goes.


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## HEV261

Trittybee said:


> Thanks Mark - my husband also put out the sugar/borax/jam bait a few hours ago. We'll see how that goes.




Or could do what i do or the most simple thing get a bag of fire ant granuals and sprinkle all around on the ground wont hurt bees cause they want eat it. kills all kinds of ants .


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## cswilliamson

I had an ant problem in my new hive and checked out this post. I tried cinnamon and the ants went right through it. I then used cinnamon sticks to under the hive but the ants just climbed right over those too. I also tried peppermint leaves. The ants didn't like them, but went around. Finally, I put each leg of the stand into a Tupperware container half filled with vegetable oil - basically creating a small "moat"around each leg of the stand. In the morning, each container had lots of dead ants floating and the hive was nearly clear of ants. The bees are clearing out the remainder.


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## Mark FrontYardHoney

cswilliamson said:


> I had an ant problem in my new hive and checked out this post. I tried cinnamon and the ants went right through it. I then used cinnamon sticks to under the hive but the ants just climbed right over those too. I also tried peppermint leaves. The ants didn't like them, but went around. Finally, I put each leg of the stand into a Tupperware container half filled with vegetable oil - basically creating a small "moat"around each leg of the stand. In the morning, each container had lots of dead ants floating and the hive was nearly clear of ants. The bees are clearing out the remainder.


Be careful. Dead ants turn into handy bridges... You may have to scoop em out sometimes.


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## crankhandl

rfathera said:


> I have a bunch of ants that keep trying to get into my newly established bee hive. What is the safest way to rid my hive and ground of these creatures. Will they effect the bees?


I have tried many remedies for ants in hives, 

1. Ground cinnamon seems to work providing that the colony has not already moved into the hive, but you are always constantly replacing it, so it becomes a drudge.

2. Mint or other aromatic leaves on the top board seem to work for a short time also but they soon dry up.

3. I find the best method is to buy a small container of borax, mix borax 1 teaspoon to 10 teaspoons sugar and 2 cups of water, to make a solution,then I get square plastic bottles and make some hacsaw cuts (slots) on the upper edges if the bottle this will allow the ants in but not the bees, I bait the bottles 1/4 full and tighten the cap, and lay the bottle under or near the hives in the shade. the ants take the sugary liquid back to the hive and feed all and sundry and the slow poison eventually wipes out the colony.

Good luck


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## Paulemar

rniles said:


> Take few ant and tie each to a toothpick and post them around the hive. Should scare the rest away.


OMG I started laughing out loud when I pictured this in my mind.


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## patcrow

Can you put ant baits inside the inner cover. The entrances are too small for bees to enter.


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## ccar2000

I have used ant bait traps on the hive stand with success. Never tried putting them inside of the hive. I think the bees would try to remove the foreign item from the hive.


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## Davers

Do a search on this forum. A beek from San Francisco made one and I no longer have an ant problem. Galvanized pipe cemented in the ground with 2 cross beams holding the long 2 frames with 1 inch pvc cap upside down on the pipe holding high tem brake grease. The search will give photos and instructions. No more ants since


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## Michael Bush

Equal parts borax, water and grape jelly. Mix well. Put out for the ants. If you are worried about the bees (I've never seen the show much interest) put it in a tupperware sandwhich box with some 1/8" holes drilled around the sides. Add water if it dries out.


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## QuiltingBee

Hi, I'm a newbie. I installed my package in a top bar hive on April 15th, and all appears well, except for some large sugar ants that are in the hive between the screen and the bottom board. The SBB is closed, and the bees can't reach the ants. I purchased brake grease yesterday and will use it on the hive legs. My question is: Can I coat the SBB with the brake grease to trap the ants and any varroa mites, if there are any? Will the brake grease give off any odor or gas that will harm the bees? 
Thank you.


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## Michael Bush

> I purchased brake grease 

Bearing grease? Chassis grease? Any kind of car grease is going to be a petroleum product with additives for it's purpose. I would not put it where the bees would come into contact with it. On legs of stands it probably won't hurt anything. In the hive it would.


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## QuiltingBee

Thank you. To clarify, it's brake wheel bearing grease. I'll use it only on the hive legs.


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## kbar1973

my property is infested with sugar ants. I tried cinnamon, bait stations away from the hive, greasing the legs, etc. but have settled on putting my hive stand legs in Tupperware dishes with Bifen LP Granules inside. Drill some holes in the bottom of the dish so that water drains out. The bees are not attracted to the granules and if a bee does get into it they won't get out. Keep the area under and around the hive void of vegetation. I was very hesitant about using granules, but after losing a hive to the ants I decided if I was going to keep bees on my property I had to do something. I also do not feed sugar syrup unless it is absolutely necessary, when I do it is only with a top feeder. Using an entrance feeder- here without the ant granules- is asking for trouble.


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## Michael Bush

> To clarify, it's brake wheel bearing grease. 

You only grease a few of the moving parts on a brake system and you don't grease the brakes themselves. Wheel bearing grease makes sense.

The best way to get rid of ants in you hive is to stop feeding syrup.

If you still have problems, equal parts borax, water, and jelly will collapse the entire colony of ants. You may have to add water from time to time. Put it on the trail they are walking to get to the colony.


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## Ronnie Elliott

My daughter in law has to be around organic as much as possible because of illness. I was at the feed store yesterday, the owner told me about ASCEND fire aunt bait. The main ingredient Abamectin B.. It is not a poison, it is brought back to the mound by the scavenger ants, and fed to the queen, she then will go sterile, so the hive will just die off, instead of throwing off anymore swarms. Don't put it on the hive mound, put it up to 25-feet away, and only just a few granuals shaken from a teaspoon. It comes in 2-lb. plastic container. [email protected]


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## ktemby

We're seeing massive numbers of ants attacking hives in the California Central Coast area this past week. Our friends have already lost a couple of nucs, and we have been experimenting with different ant defense over the weekend. @Michael Bush's ant offense is definitely going to be our next option!

Here's a timelapse showing our first effective measure, with a nice pie-tin/oil moat setup. If you see the other videos you can see how ineffective cinnamon sticks were after 24 hours! 

Sorry I'm having a hard time getting facebook to share just the post itself, it's at the top of the page at least at https://www.facebook.com/keltronixinc. I will post it to youtube and update later.


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## Fishmaster50

I have just one hive up on a aluminium frame. I was having ant issues tried the cinnamon still kept coming. So I put the grease on the legs and NO more ants in or near the hive.


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## marshmasterpat

Any one have issues with the crazy ants yet? 

I got imported red fire ants but they are not a serious issue for me, I treat with organic stuff (borax baits), with Amdro bait that crazy the queens (maybe sterilizes her, whatever but it works) and once in a while with ant/roach poison injected into the mounds. 

But crazy ants are not far away and they are amazing critters. Colony sizes are unbelievable and they will slowly wipe out the imported red fire ants. Just spooky seeing cups of dead ants appear day after day after day as the treatment kills off the ones moving in. 

Ktempy - What kind of ants are hitting ya'll?


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## ktemby

Hi @marshmasterpat, 

As far as we know, they're the Argentine Ants. They're pretty small, and cart off dead and dying bees and brood - did you have a look at the video? Right now they're all over the place because of the drought this year! Apparently they're all part of a super colony, so don't fight each other.


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## Phoebee

I built hive stands per the Charlie B design. The stand legs are pipe with inverted plastic cups rigged on them into which you put the axle grease. The ants can't get past the grease, but bees are very unlikely to get into the inverted cups.

I don't try to kill the ants, so long as they stay on the ground. The bees and the ants have a working understanding. The ants are welcome to any dead bees the hives dispose of. A local family of Phoebes (flycatchers) is in on the deal as well. They leave the live flying bees alone but are welcome to the dead and the occasional sick crawler.


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## JWChesnut

Kelton,
1) Stop feeding. Nothing draws argentine ants more aggressively than loose syrup. Once the rains begin you can resume feeding.
2) Isolate the hive using and use tanglefoot or boat trailer wheel bearing (lithium) grease. Isolation can be cups, nested inverted cans, tuna cans below legs, or a zillion other moat arrangements. Nucs can be suspended from a post and cross arm arrangement in counter-weighted (concrete) plastic buckets -- water in the top of the bucket gives 100% isolation.
3) Dig up the nest. An argentine ant nest can usually be located and excavated, buying crucial time for the loose syrup to be cleaned up.
4) Use a boric acid - weak sugar syrup bait.
A shy 1 teaspoon boric to 1 cup syrup yields a 1.5% solution. The syrup should be weak -- much weaker than bee feed. Put a cotton ball in a baby food jar, soak it with boric mix. Punch a bee-proof hole in the baby-food jar lid. I spray paint the lids red, so I am not tempted to use the jars for bee feeding.


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## ktemby

Hey John, nice to see you here! 

Neither the hive shown in the video, nor the other hives under attack were being fed anything, just really determined ants.

We found the isolation using the moat/pie tins worked quite well - it's quite visible in the timelapse video! Also sharing that we pretty conclusively showed that cinnamon sticks don't work at least against the Argentine ants, which was one of the remedies discussed earlier in the thread.

Thank you for the rest of your advice, I'll give boric bait jars a try if the ants find their way across the moat!


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## Brian Scott

How do you kill ants in your house?

Ant Bait. You can buy it in any hardware store. Buy the little tin cans or plastic trays. Pop the holes in the sides and place them under the hive or on your hive stands. They even make these neat little outdoor ones with spikes on them to sink in the ground. If you have a screened bottom board, the little tins actually fit quite nicely between the screen and the tray. Safely away from the bees but accessible to the ants.

These ant baits work buy allowing the ant to eat, bring the food back to their hive and feeding it to their young and other ants. The hive dies. No more ants. Very simple, very effective and if done correctly ( and with a little common sense) perfectly safe to use around your bees.

Even better, if you can find the ant hill. Spray it with ant killer or put an ant bait right on top of the mound. Again dead ants.


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## davidsbees

I make boric acid bait stations






1.5% in hfc


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## Michael Bush

>How do you kill ants in your house?

...equal parts jelly borax and water along their trail...


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## devil dog

My hives are elevated above the ground on stands. I put ash around the bases of the posts that support the my hive stands. No more ants in any of my hives. Give it a try it is cheap and easy.


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## Lauri

My ants are probably different than yours, but I still hate them. It's early spring they are a bit of a pain. 
I did find something for them to do that's constructive however. It did distract them and they quit bugging my hives immediately. They cleaned this steer head off right down to the bare skull.



__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Ian

Dust the ground with commercial ant poison in the exact area where your pallet sits or hive bottom board.
I find pallets with open space and clearance detour ants as compared to placing the bottom board directly on the ground


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## Michael Bush

>They cleaned this steer head off right down to the bare skull.

Yes, they are different. I tried it here on what Nebraskan's call "fire ants" (not real fire ants) and they won't clean it up very much...


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## crankhandl

me thinks that the cow needs a little help


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## crankhandl

sorry i use borax and sugar in pop bottles with thin slots cut with a hacsaw on the top side it works the ants love it and the bees cant get to it


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## Lauri

crankhandl said:


> me thinks that the cow needs a little help


My gelding you see there was quite impressed. He behaved like an angel after he saw that. Didn't want to be bad and get buried up to his neck in an ant hill.


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## crankhandl

poor baby why was he gelded, did he misbehave?


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## marshmasterpat

The effectiveness of the ant bait depends on the species of ant you are dealing with as many have hinted at. Baits that are very effective on imported fire ants will be left alone with the crazy ant. And what the commercial people are using for crazy ants is spooky scary, it lasts in the ecosystem for years.

We have been fighting fire ants and since the city does not approve of a quart of gasoline and lighter on the mounds I have tried a few methods here. Cinnamon (and cloves - kids grabbed the wrong container) don't work. But just tried dusting the hive with borax. Seems to be working. Lots of the sprays/poisons just let the colony move over a few feet with survivor to restart. These are slowly just disappearing. 

Another item that is good is Andro fire ant bait, it has been applied in a few tests from the air on larger acreages. Due to the extreme aggressive foraging behavior of fire ants, they gather a majority of it and haul back into hives. They crash and native species increase again (like harvester ants and such). It can work areas of a few acres and larger, but when I treated my 3 acres, the mounds in the neighborhood just repopulated my place fairly fast. But it helped. It works in a method similar to Bt, larvae cannot metamorph into pupae if I remember correctly, but that was 5+ years ago when I researched it. Memory is faulty these days. 

crankhandl - A spooky thread I see in the comments from Lauri, a gelding, and steer..... Everyone behaves on Lauri's farm or else. LOL


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## Lauri

crankhandl said:


> poor baby why was he gelded, did he misbehave?


I actually had three stallions..up until 2008 -2009 and the economy dumped. No one had money to breed their mares anymore. 

That's when I got intrested in beekeeping. I was looking for something else to do I could apply what I'd learned with genetics and agriculture the last 30 years.


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## NW-BeeMan

Ants will wipe a hive out in short order. 

I've found that ant trap moats around the legs work very quickly and safely. I have a small shallow rot proof box built for each leg of my stand. (it's about 2" deep) I put diatomaceous earth in the moats. It kills ants by destroying their joints. at the level of the ant size it is very abrasive and sharp. Ants or other insects that walk through it will quickly die from "bleeding to death" via their joints. This does not need to be replaced. Just stir it a bit to keep the surface area loose and powdery so that the particles can easily get into the ants leg joints. 

I also put a drop of spearmint or peppermint in the hive on my screened bottom board every few days (Depending on outside temp and humidity it may need to be applied more often)

My hive stands are made like a short table. The design keeps the legs and moats out of the weather and the legs stay dry. I sprinkle cinnamon around the table top during dry weather.

Good luck!
NW-BeeMan

Diatomaceous earth is available at your local garden store


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## ljbee

Somebody might have already suggested this... I didn't read the whole thread... but this works for me.

http://naturalantkiller.blogspot.com/

Just make sure the holes aren't big enough for the bees to get inside.


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