# % of honey for local



## casinoken

I label my honey as "Pure Raw Oktebbeha County Honey". That way u know what county the bees made it in. Just a thought


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## brac

Let's ruin any trust we have with the public! If people want crap honey they can get it at walmart.


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## johnth78

The failure to act with principles is the great american downfall. Up until the 1950's leadership was about how principled a person you were now it's reduced to "Fake it till you make it." In all things we should be accountable you might get away with mixing your honey but if I found out you did it as a coustomer I wouldn't buy another drop. further more I would tell all my friends and family and random people on the street. Decide if you are a quality producer or a cheat.


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## Tazcan

I don't understand why anyone would do this, what is accomplished? 
would you label it mixed with store bought honey? kinda defeats the purpose of raising your own bee's for honey IMO


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## MrHappy

I agree, if it's not 100% you might as well just add Corn Syrup and the other crap that the store bought has. If you mix the store crap you are just cheating people that pay for the real stuff.


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## SilverBack

I might be missing something, but the OP stated to mix honey with purchased honey...not specifically with store-bought honey. Packers by definition mix "purchased" honey.

rtoney - could you be more specific about what kind of mixing you're referring to? Are you talking about store-bought honey or honey from other beeks who don't want to market their own product?


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## Tom Brueggen

Indeed, Silverback asks the key question. 

If you're looking to dilute your good local stash with the garbage from Walmart (no offense to Walmart, or the packers that supply them), then the acceptable percentage is ZERO! That would be blatantly dishonest to market US honey as local honey because some of yours is in it.

If you're mixing with your neighbors' stash so they don't have to do the legwork, then just make sure have a handle on where theirs comes from. If it's from your local area, I wouldn't even bother mentioning that it was mixed. If it's beyond 10 miles or so, some reference to origin should be stated. People hold "local" honey in high esteem. Let's not abuse that trust.


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## sqkcrk

MrHappy said:


> I agree, if it's not 100% you might as well just add Corn Syrup and the other crap that the store bought has. If you mix the store crap you are just cheating people that pay for the real stuff.


If you believe that there is corn syrup in grocery store shelf honey, take it to court or change your brain. Prove it.

I have been selling honey by direct store delivery for 20 years. The customer demand outpaces production every year, so I buy honey. I buy honey from friends who produce that honey near me, or in the State. I know them and know how they manage their bees, because I work their bees with them. I buy it from folks I know nand trust and label it under the Squeak Creek Apiaries Label. "Natural North Country Honey from Squeak Creek Apiaries". 

The honey is in buckets. I don't make a habit of mixing two buckets of mine w/ two buckets of boughten honey. Too much work to keep track. No one can tell which honey is which, not even me. I don't consider this underhanded or unethical. If someone of y'all do, good for you. You have that luxury. I am making a living from honey sales, such as it is.

So, if anyone wants to judge me or look down their nose at me and my ways, I could care less. Unless you do what I do, don't judge me.

This "Local Honey", "Totally My Honey" can go too far. And limit what an individual can do.

Does anyone critisizer Pepsi for not using only their own produced ingredients? How many of you walk away from a car or truck you really like and want to buy when you find out it isn't totally made by Ford, only made for Ford?

Now, I will agree that one shouldn't buy honey from somewhere definitely not what you consider local, say a NY honey packer bottling honey from California and calling it LOCAL. I label my Varietal Honeys as "Made for you by friends of Squeak Creek Apiaries". I believe that reveals the source as from someone else well enough for those who read labels.


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## cg3

I was of the impression that adulterated honey had indeed found it's way onto US grocery shelves.


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## sqkcrk

Some may have. So, we should paint the whole shelf w/ the same wide brush? If enough people are suspicious, then assurances will be made. But, in the mean time the consumers mind ius negatively effected by all the negative publiciuty. And once that trust is eroded, getting it back is near impossible.

So, if one beekeeper/honey packer wants to make a statement, they'd better be able to back up their claim. imo


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## cg3

sqkcrk said:


> So, we should paint the whole shelf w/ the same wide brush?


No, but I'm not above taking advantage of the consumers confused notions about honey. Local honey sells at a premium.
-I'm not advocating making any false statements


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## sqkcrk

So you believe that those who sell should "tak[e] advantage of the consumers confused notions"? Interesting.


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## rtoney

Let me try and slow this down a little.
Maybe my fault for the way it was posted but:
I meant mixing raw honey with raw honey not store bought.
If you are in Missouri and buy raw honey from Iowa or Nebraska or etc and mix it with your honey it is still raw honey but at what % would you call it your honey or local honey.
I am not saying anyone is trying to decieve the customer by mixing raw honey with something that is not raw honey.
Hope this helps to clear this up a bit and back to the first post.


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## rtoney

BTW I also agree with sqkcrk that local and my honey can go to far also. If I buy raw honey then it is my raw honey when someone asks Raw Clover is raw Clover honey as long as it is Raw Clover honey.


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## whix

I have seldom produced as much honey as I can sell. I wish I could. 
Markets are hard to find, you can't say, "Sorry, I ran out," you would lose them as a customer. 

To keep my markets supplied, I buy honey from other local beekeepers and sell it under my label. 
Ask around, it is pretty common to do this and I don't see any problems doing it. 
I also don't mix a percent of theirs to mine, it is all still local honey.
The commercial beekeeper gets more $ from me than from the packers, I get to keep my markets supplied which keeps the markets customers supplied. We are all happy.

I heard from a big beekeeper that you can either keep bees or sell honey. If you are selling honey, you are neglecting yours bees, if you are beekeeping, you are neglecting your customers.


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## sqkcrk

rtoney said:


> If you are in Missouri and buy raw honey from Iowa or Nebraska or etc and mix it with your honey it is still raw honey but at what % would you call it your honey or local honey.


Isn't it more important for you to tell us what you would do or call it? If you want an Industry Standard to follow, maybe you would like to look to McDonald's. Their "All Beef Patties" can be by definition 51% beef and be called "All Beef". Isn't all of your honey "local"? Once mixed w/ someone elses "local" honey, isn't it all still local?


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## cg3

sqkcrk said:


> those who sell should "tak[e] advantage of the consumers confused notions"?


Don't you get tired of earnestly answering a question based on media reports or preconceived ideas and watching their eyes glaze over? 


rtoney said:


> I meant mixing raw honey with raw honey not store bought.


That's what I thought you meant. Any mix of those 2 is still raw honey, just not "local". 


rtoney said:


> local and my honey can go to far also.


Not quite sure how local is "local", but it's a really big deal to some buyers. I've seen people base their choice on the closest to their home- a difference of a few miles.


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## sqkcrk

cg3 said:


> Don't you get tired of earnestly answering a question based on media reports or preconceived ideas and watching their eyes glaze over?


No, do you? I answer every question as if it were seriously/earnestly asked, unless I can tell someone is being fecitious.


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## cg3

sqkcrk said:


> No, do you?


I admit, I do. For instance when asked the honey/allergies question, I might say "I don't know. Some say it helps." rather than "Studies have not shown that."


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## rtoney

Was not looking to start anything today but I guess at times it does not take much. Industry Standard was not what I was looking for as it pertains to is it governmently legal or not. Once again sqkcrk you kind of hit it because I do not know what I would call it just what I know someone is doing is calling it thus that is why I asked the question. I understand the statment of local is local because it is local to somewhere some say local is 25 miles others say 125 miles so the term local is also defined by the person using it. In the 20's next door was within your grasp and not much more today the world is within your grasp.


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## sqkcrk

Oh, yeah, that sort of thing. Yes, I do get tired of that sometimes. But I worked at Colonial Williamsburg answering the same question over and over all day for a long time. Some times you gotta change the answer to keep it fresh. "I'm not sure. What do you believe?". Which is different from "What do you THINK?", right? Most people believe things which aren't necassarily true or quantifiably provable.

Someone could slap a "Local" label on a jar of honey and people will make all sorts of assumptions not necassarily true at all. The buyer be ware.

rtoney,
I had a potential customer who decline the sale when she found that the closest yd to her was 25 miles away. How close does it have be produced to where someone lives to qualify as local. It's a sham. When I asked her what her allergys were, since that is why she wanted local honey, turns out she had none. What'sa guy to do?


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## rtoney

Ya I read that post on an earlier "what's local" post I just tell people that "local honey" is a folklore started by a couple of beekeepers. I do think that raw honey helps with allergies but I believe it is because it builds the immune system not because it is local. (and I'm not looking to start another fight with this statement) you all believe what you believe and I will believe what I believe.
Anyway for those that were not fighting or getting overly upset Thanks for the help.


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## rtoney

Oh yes I still don't know what to call it.:scratch:


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## cg3

I didn't mean to be contentious, my blood sugar gets low in the afternoon and I get cranky. I guess my point was that I don't think it's unethical to not give them more information than they want. I'd call the mix "Raw Wildflower Honey"


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## julysun

I would call it whatever it happens TO BE. Local honey. County honey. Baytown honey. East Texas honey. Mixed local honey.

Try this from Wikipedia;

Definitions of "local"



A cheesemaking workshop with goats at Maker Faire 2011. The sign declares, "Eat your Zipcode!"
There is no single definition of "'local' or 'local food systems' in terms of the geographic distance between production and consumption. But defining 'local' based on marketing arrangements, such as farmers selling directly to consumers at regional farmers’ markets or to schools, is well recognized.[5] There are "a number of different definitions for local [that] have been used or recorded by researchers assessing local food systems [and] most [are] informed by political or geographic boundaries. Among the more widely circulated and popular defining parameters is the concept of food miles, which has been suggested for policy recommendations."[6] In 2008 Congress passed H.R.2419, which amended the "Consolidated Farm and Rural Development Act". In the amendment "locally" and "regionally" are grouped together and are defined as
‘‘(I) the locality or region in which the final product is marketed, so that the total distance that the product is transported is less than 400 miles from the origin of the product; or ‘‘(II) the State in which the product is produced.
—Bill Text - 110th Congress (2007-2008) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
In May 2010 the USDA acknowledged this definition in an informational leaflet.[7]
The concept of "local" is also seen in terms of ecology, where food production is considered from the perspective of a basic ecological unit defined by its climate, soil, watershed, species and local agrisystems, a unit also called an ecoregion or a foodshed. The concept of the foodshed is similar to that of a watershed; it is an area where food is grown and eaten.


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## sqkcrk

rtoney said:


> Oh yes I still don't know what to call it.:scratch:


Call it your honey, by your name or your company name. Folks you sell to know you live nearby, so it has to be LOCAL, right? I don't use the word LOCAL on my label, but "Natural North Country" tells them what they need to know.

Some of the honey in the jar is yours and that which you bought is now yours too.

Sorry if I came off upset, I guess I was somewhat. I shouldn't Post while sleep deprived. Forgive me?


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## cg3

sqkcrk said:


> Forgive me?


If I were to nominate an Ambassador Of Beekeeping, it'd be you.:applause:

What percentage does one need to be Amish honey?:scratch:


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## SilverBack

cg3 said:


> What percentage does one need to be Amish honey?:scratch:


According to Elizabeth Warren about 1/132nd.:lpf:


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## sqkcrk

cg3 said:


> What percentage does one need to be Amish honey?:scratch:


Ambassador Berninghausen? Sorta has a nice ring to it. lol

Amish honey? Now you are just being silly. 
I'll do ya one better, Shaker Honey. Produced the simplest way by the simple people. I mean, simplest people. 

I dreampt up a label one time, "The Lazy Beekeeper's Honey", illustrated w/ a beekeeper laying on the ground up next to his hive asleep w/ his long beard hanging out from under his veil w/ zzzzs above his head, snoring away and his wife beekeeper on the othyer side of the same panel w/ veil, hive tool, and smoker.

If anyone wants to draw that up and submit it, the chosen one will get credit. Thanks. Whatever that has to do w/ "% local" I don't know.


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## cg3

sqkcrk said:


> Amish honey? Now you are just being silly.





> *Amish Honey Products*
> Fields of buckwheat blossoms fill the St. Lawrence Valley where honey bees are busy at work producing this natural essence to Squeak Creek Apiaries flavorful honeys.*


:banana:


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## Dunham Bee Farm

I'm new to this, but I can tell I wouldn't mix a drop with any honey I harvest myself. I don't want to sell to people one time, I want to sell to them EVERY time they want good, real honey. But thats just my opinion.


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## cg3

Dunham Bee Farm said:


> I don't want to sell to people one time, I want to sell to them EVERY time they want good, real honey.


I think his point was that he had access to other folks good, real honey. I kind of wish that I had someone to market for me. With a couple of hives, I had no problem selling out at a high price. As I increase, I'm going to have to charge less for larger quantity containers or incur the overhead of logos, quality labels, time spent selling, etc. There's a niche market for raw, local, monohive honey, but what if you end up with hundreds of pounds or more? You have to market more aggressively or sell in larger quantities.
My next market is 5gal at a time to restaurants and breweries who still place value on "local".


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## The Honey Householder

As the largest Ohio honey producer, I'll tell you what I tell all my customers. You bought it, its your honey. You call it whatever you want. I see a lot of my local honey selling in other states, I mean your local honey. Really what is local.


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## odfrank

I label mine with a little sticker on the lid indicating town it came from.


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## sqkcrk

cg3 said:


> :banana:


No they don't. Where did you find that written?


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## cg3

cg3 said:


> Amish Honey Products
> Fields of buckwheat blossoms fill the St. Lawrence Valley where honey bees are busy at work producing this natural essence to Squeak Creek Apiaries flavorful honeys.*


Unless anyone gets the wrong idea, the above was not posted by sqkcrk but a reseller of his product. Further, they identify him as one of their non-Amish friends. I just thought it was funny in the context of this marketing discussion.

"Amish" seems to have become a marketing term similar to "local". I'm not saying that there are not authentic Amish goods and services but there seems to be more and more "Amish Furniture Outlets" and the like. In construction, we're seeing a lot of "Amish" carpentry crews, trading on the good reputations of craftsmen past. Occasionally you'll see a bunch that shows up in buggies and speaks Deutsch but by and large the crews I see use power tools, drive new trucks and speak 'Merican. I know that there are various shades of Amish, but I believe this is mostly marketing.


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## sqkcrk

If the above mentioned store in Heuvelton, NY is passing my honey off as Amish in order to sell it at a premium, then I think I'd better get a better price for it. Then again, I don't wish to be complicit in a lie. Them listing my honey under Amish Food Products is misleading. I also doubt that some of the other Amish Food Products are Amish made either.

Somebody's due for a talkin' to. But not cg3.


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## NasalSponge

I don't have a problem with it, don't do it myself but I have a niche market, running out keeps them interested...the rarer the better with my customers and only having a certain amount available each year = rare.


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## cg3

sqkcrk said:


> passing my honey off as Amish in order to sell it at a premium.


The price, I thought, was reasonable.


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## The Honey Householder

cg3, I have a Amish customer in your neck of the woods. He moves over 10,000 lbs a year, of my honey and he might be buying from others too. I'm sure in the amish world he is the biggest honey producer.


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## cg3

The Honey Householder said:


> in the amish world he is the biggest honey producer.


 Could be, but to me it's really not a big deal. All marketing is suspect. I'd say honey sold by the Amish is "Amish Honey" as much as furniture made from purchased wood is "Amish Furniture". I still have a problem with a bunch of ******* carpenters working for an Amish guy as "Amish Builders" but that's just me.
For those who care, there's nothing better than a "How do you know it's local honey if you don't know the beekeeper?" sticker.


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## sqkcrk

Maybe I should get a sticker which says, "Produced and Packaged by Mark Berninghausen". Anyone who thinks that my name is Amish doesn't know much about the Amish.


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## Roland

Yup, Yoder is allot easier to spell......

Crazy Roland (Diehnelt)


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## AJ Boss

Just slap an American Flag on the bottle and call it HONEY made in the USA....
and it will sell like hot bread! opcorn:


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## BayHighlandBees

cg3 said:


> I still have a problem with a bunch of ******* carpenters working for an Amish guy as "Amish Builders" but that's just me.


The Amish guy who built my parents house married a Menonite and converted. Because of that he could use power tools on the house.


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