# Virgin through an excluder



## Jennings (Sep 23, 2012)

Hello Everyone

I am still trying to decide if a vigin queen can fit through a queen excluder. I have had a few batches of ruined cells that make me think that they can. Just wondering what you all think, or have experienced.


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

They certainly can! Sometimes the excluder holes are off too and they find a way through.
Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com


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## jadell (Jun 19, 2011)

Agreed


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Yep, I've lost cells due to virgin moving through the excluder. But, it can also happen when a virgin from outside the cell builder enters the queenless cell builder and destroys the cells. I think this happens more often than virgins going through the excluder...unless you have a faulty excluder/shaker box. 

How did your queen rearing go this summer Jennings? 

All...Jennings is one of our queen breeding group here in Vermont.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I thing it may even be possible for them to fit through shortly after they mate.
I found laying queens above excluders shortly after they returned from mating.
It happened in three hives with two different kinds of excluders. Newer excluders with no damage. Equipment was tight no holes or top entrances.
It really drove me nuts.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

If you raise a lot of queens, you know how they vary in size...at the thorax. Some I would consider nearly worker size.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I've found marked queens above a perfectly fine excluder.


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> If you raise a lot of queens, you know how they vary in size...at the thorax. Some I would consider nearly worker size.


Any thoughts or feelings about the general quality of the queens small enough to fit through the excluder? I understand that the incidence may not be high enough to establish any kind of firm conviction, but, just curious. Do some of them meet an untimely end, just to eliminate the aggravation?
jim


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## Jennings (Sep 23, 2012)

Michael Palmer said:


> Yep, I've lost cells due to virgin moving through the excluder. But, it can also happen when a virgin from outside the cell builder enters the queenless cell builder and destroys the cells. I think this happens more often than virgins going through the excluder...unless you have a faulty excluder/shaker box.
> 
> How did your queen rearing go this summer Jennings?
> 
> All...Jennings is one of our queen breeding group here in Vermont.


Yes, I think the virgins that have destroyed my cells came from outside the cell builder, but I assume they came in the front entrance and went up through the excluder.


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## Jennings (Sep 23, 2012)

Sorry for the double post. Queen rearing went well this summer. We had a baby June 27th, and I still managed to get three rounds in. I did not sell many, but I have a lot of nucs to overwinter, good start for spring. They seem to be good bees, VSHxCarni breeder most likely mated to you're drones. They were all flying yesterday and sunday, quite a site for november in Vt.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

dirt road said:


> Any thoughts or feelings about the general quality of the queens small enough to fit through the excluder? I understand that the incidence may not be high enough to establish any kind of firm conviction, but, just curious. Do some of them meet an untimely end, just to eliminate the aggravation?
> jim


They all meet an untimely end if I'm caging queens. I won't accept a small queen from my mating nucs. Some will say they've had small queens that perform well. I might find a couple in a day of catching, and I have enough good queens, so I don't bother with them.


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