# Russian vs Carniolan



## Khines (Dec 25, 2016)

Is there any major difference between the two and if so what have is the pros and cons I'm a first timer this spring and got to get my order in for the nucs in Jan if it matters I live in northern Missouri


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Carniolans and Russians are very similar in traits. Both are good. Russian probably have better varroa tolerance.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Clayton huestis is very right. I had russians my first year very pleased with them. Very varroa resistant. They get them they just clesn them off better. I did carnolian this year. I like them but im going back to russian. Just keep a eye on them your second year they are swarmy if you let them. Alot of people will say dont go with russians they are aggressive blah blah blah. I had a certified queen and mine were ok. I say go russian.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Billboard said:


> Clayton huestis is very right. I had russians my first year very pleased with them. Very varroa resistant. They get them they just clesn them off better. I did carnolian this year. I like them but im going back to russian. *Just keep a eye on them your second year they are swarmy if you let them.* Alot of people will say dont go with russians they are aggressive blah blah blah. I had a certified queen and mine were ok. I say go russian.


Nevermind the second year, they're swarmy the first year too. If you're looking to increase your hive count, they'll do it for you, but you gotta watch 'em and re-hive the queen before she leaves. Mine averaged about a dozen good queen cells spread over several frames in each hive, it was easy to split them up into nucs. I can't graft so it was a bonus for me.

I can't say they're any more aggressive than Carnis, seem about the same to me...but then, I haven't noticed much difference as opposed to Italians either. I was taught to handle them gently, and I usually do, so maybe that makes a difference. Any of them will get testy if you're careless and kill a bunch.

I don't know about Varroa resistance, I haven't made an effort to see if there is any difference.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

I can't tell you (yet) first-hand, but I have two Russian colonies and three Carniolan colonies now, just a bit on the spring side of the winter solstice. Waiting to see. There are three Italian colonies, too. I asked this question, you see.... I may learn the answer.

Michael


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

the good news is russians winter in small clusters. the bad news is russians winter in small clusters. as mentioned carnis are less swarmy. i tried russians a couple of times, no more for me.


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

Italians.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

If I were in the bee buying position I'd buy the carni variety. After you see a carni queen you might feel the same. 
Since I'm not in the position to buy new bees every spring I have to take what I get. My phone rings, they say we got bees, I work out a plan, a $$ amount, and then I get me some bees. (and get paid for it) 
So far it's been working fantastic for me. (locals)
Find someone like me and buy their splits or captured warms. You probably don't want the cutouts yet. You'll get there maybe if you have time.

Sorry for being slightly off topic but from my experience and what I've read you're best off trying to find local bees that come from locals that survive. Just my 2 cents.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Russians build up too late for almond pollination, but they explode suddenly once Spring has indeed sprung. That's when you have to split them before they swarm, and the time window is narrow. Carnies are prone to adjust their population to the situation, and thus cannot be counted upon for pollination. Both are good northern Winter survivors. Both tend to fare well against the varroa mites, but are not an "answer" to the problem. Generally speaking, and there are exceptions, unless your Russians are timed to a nectar flow, neither make a lot of honey, largely due to missing sporadic flows. Both are best situated in an area need Winter survival as high priority, and in long intense flows


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## crazybean (Dec 20, 2016)

Please, do not called them Russian bees. Call them Caucas bees. Assuming you are talking regarding a.m. caucasica. Otherwise it may be mistaken for a.m.m.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

crazybean said:


> Please, do not called them Russian bees. Call them Caucas bees. Assuming you are talking regarding a.m. caucasica. Otherwise it may be mistaken for a.m.m.


what are called russian bees in the usa are bees from eastern siberia near the sea of japan. they are descendants of a mixture of caucas bees with some italian and german black bee mixed in, the foundation stock was shipped east in the early days of the trans-siberia railroad. they were adapted over time to survive in a tough climate.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Hell I heard that they were Carni's taken to the Primorski region of the Soviet Union around when Grandad fell off the bus.
Johno


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> Nevermind the second year, they're swarmy the first year too. If you're looking to increase your hive count, they'll do it for you, but you gotta watch 'em and re-hive the queen before she leaves. Mine averaged about a dozen good queen cells spread over several frames in each hive, it was easy to split them up into nucs.


Do you try to requeen the splits or leave Russian.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Saltybee said:


> Do you try to requeen the splits or leave Russian.


The intention was to bring in the VSH genetics (I realize that it is regressive and unlikely to last) and other traits, if only for some diversity, so I wanted them to raise their own queens. I'm going for an "unfocused" breeding program mixing the Carnis, Russian and Italian. I lost the queen in my Italian colony last year and did not get a successful mating, and it went laying worker so I'll probably bring in a couple of Italian queens this year. Fortunately, they lasted long enough to give me drones for mating and I can see signs of Italian blood in at least some of the new ones...of course, I can't be sure that they were -my- drones that they mated with- I'm somewhat isolated for normal purposes (not likely to be close enough for mite or disease transfer) but there are a few keepers that could potentially be in range to share DCAs for mating.


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