# swarm cells



## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

are swarm cells always on side or bottom? or should I say, are supersede cells sometimes built there as well?

looking at a friend's top-bar hive it only has about 10 bars fully built out (still 40% free space in hive) and I can see queen cells on the outer edge, one queen cell was just capped off yesterday and a new one is being built on the bar next to it (they are on the side) of the comb

I saw the queen in this hive just a couple day ago...so she is doing ok


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

If there are only a couple cells, they are probably supersedeur. With swarm cells there are usually several of them.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

A TBH can swarm before it fills the box. Mine did.


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

kq6ar: interesting, there may be more cells, these I can just see through an observation window, I am going to inspect the hive this week so I will know if there are more

adrian: these are golden mean hives, so they are pretty small to begin with


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## HopkinBees (Jun 24, 2011)

What's the difference between swarm cells and supersede cells? 
I just found what look like the makings of a queen cell on a bar of honey store and my queen is in the hive.
What's the best thing to do about this?
They are just starting build lots of honey stores.


//Marlon


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Swarm cells are USUALLY to be found at the edges of comb, can be any edge, or even on a middle part where there is a hole in the comb.

Supercedure cells are USUALLY to be found in the interior areas of brood comb.

Bees will swarm, it's the natural reproductive urge. Take advantage of it, or let it happen, but don't try to stop it. An impending swarm is an excellent time to make splits.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 5, 2010)

Marlon: You said "...makings of a queen cell..." Just a thought -- don't confuse a queen cup (looks like a tiny acorn cap facing bowl side out) with a queen cell (looks more like a peanut in the shell). There may be one or more cups in a hive. A queen cup means the bees have prepared a place to start a queen cell, but they may not ever use it -- they are just planning ahead.


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## HopkinBees (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks Dee Anna, I'll have to take a second look for more.
Thanks for the heads up Parker, I'll have to read up on swarms and splits and what I need to prepare.
Again thanks for help.
//Marlon


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## HopkinBees (Jun 24, 2011)

Hey I did an inspection and found two queen cone on bar of mostly brood and some honey. I was thinking of moving this bar toward the back of hive to stem off a swarm off sorts?
Would this work?


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

HopkinBees said:


> Would this work?


Not likely. You'll still have queen cells in the hive. It makes no difference where in the hive they are.


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## HopkinBees (Jun 24, 2011)

I was reading somewhere that the existing Queen sometimes chew and kill off queens in their cells, what if I move this bar with the queen cones toward the front of the hive? I'm not liking this. 
They have been doing really good; nine bars of brood (bars are 18"w X 16"d), 2-3 bars of mixed mostly brood and some honey, 4-5 honey stores and more under contruction with empties waiting.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Why are you not liking this? This is beekeeping.


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

personally, I may just let mine swarm if that's what they want to do, I kind of like watching them do their thing naturally just to see what happens


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## HopkinBees (Jun 24, 2011)

Its more thought than emotion, its just they're doing so well. What's another challenge I was thinking of making a small top bar nuc box just to be swarm ready.
I also agree with Blist as well.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 5, 2010)

If they are doing as well as you say, then maybe they want to keep doing well by either swarming or (more likely) superseding. Swarming is a sign that the hive is healthy enough to reproduce. Superseding is a sign that the colony perceives a problem with the queen and wants to stay healthy by replacing her.

A question I have is about the word you have used -- you say they have made "queen cones", not "queen cells". If these structures look like small open bowls, they are queen *cups*. Bees make cups for "just in case". From what I have observed this summer and what I have learned from others, cups don't necessarily indicate any intent to swarm or supersede. 

If the bees have made queen *cells*, then keep in mind the queen might look fine to your eyes, but the bees judge her in ways we cannot. 

Walt Wright (see his posts in the Forum and his articles in Point of View) says supersedure in the first year is very common. Especially since you live in northern MN (short summer, short nectar flows), I would think supersedure is more likely at this point in the summer than swarming. But keep in mind, as a newbie myself, I am only speaking from what I've read, not what I have observed personally. 

Here are a couple of quotes from Walt at http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?255361

"...starter colonies will likely supersede and not likely swarm, and conversely, the established colony will likely swarm and is less likely to supersede. This baseline of course has exceptions, but it's a place to start...." and "...Swarming by first year starters is normally a product of beekeeper management...."


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

did a hive inspection today...I don't do a bunch of them...and unfortunately the queen cell they had recently capped was destroyed, apparently they attached it to the side...I wasn't happy about that

I did find another queen cell that they are building but haven't capped yet

the main reason I wanted to open the hive is because they started building wonky comb on the last bar, it was two separate pieces that were not straight actually, I put that bar in between two straight bars but I'm not sure if it was too far into the build process or not, I will have to check it later to make sure...I just didn't know if I should cut it all off and have them start over or what...I suppose if I should cut it out and have them start fresh on that bar I could still do that

the brood nest is opened up a bit now though so not sure if they will swarm or not, I suppose if they want to swarm they can, we have long hot summers in South Texas so I think they still have lots of time left to do work


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## HopkinBees (Jun 24, 2011)

WOW!
I was grabbing a ladder near my hive and heard what sounded like a bee squeeling or piping this afternoon. Later on left to go pick up some pizza for the kids, came back to what looked like all the bees having a flying party outside. Watched for about 25 min. till they settled in a tree not far away and there they and there they go. I don't have a second box ready so there isn't much to do but watch nature do its thing.

Pretty cool!

Things are settled now so I thought I'd do an inspection; had 4 empty bar to choose from; check each bar carefully looking for a new queen; found three queen cones in the middle of a bar of comb (in the middle of the hive) and two capped cells on the edge of a bar of comb (in the front of the hive); didn't see and couldn't find a new queen anywhere. NOTE: these two different queen cells and cones look very different, any reason for that? Seem to have lots of capped brood, lava and eggs.
Anything I should be doing? or just let the bee's figure?

//Marlon


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

hopkinbees, if you have queen cells or a queen left behind hopefully the hive will be ok

I opened this hive today to make sure they were straightening out that crooked comb that I put between two straight pieces and they appeared to be correcting the problem

the bees seem to be getting hot as the hive gets more populated, I got stung in the eye today when I went out there to take a look at the hive

this was before I even opened it up, when I opened it up I had a veil on and I had about 7 bees hassling me the whole time, followed me everywhere I went

I don't think these will be swarming real soon since the once capped queen cell was destroyed, they might swarm sometime this summer though since the hive is almost full


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