# Odd split...leave or meddle?



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I took 4 5 over 5 wintered nucs and transferred each box into a 10 frame deep. I did not check which box the queen was in. In all the bees covered 5 frames of eack box. I did that Mar 29.

Today I checked to see which had queens and/ or eggs and which had QC.

The first hive I opened had no queen cells or cups. No young open larvae but did have some large larvae, lots of capped and emerging brood. There were a few eggs. 

Do groups of eggs ever simply not hatch? I ask as one group of eggs were along a line of cells I had notched. I did not see a Queen...I did look but could have missed her.

I found Queens in 3 other of the boxes and oddles of eggs and immature larvae in another...so assumed there was a Queen.

I saw capped QC in 3 of the boxes. 

Thus if going with odds the first box I opened should have been from a queen less box and thus should have had QC...but it did not...not even where I placed a notch. 

Today I just closed it up but was wobering if I should have given it another frame with eggs and immature larvae. The eggs I saw were beautifully placed..one to a cell..center on the bottom.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

What was in the 8th nuc. eggs? cell? If in doubt what would be lost by giving the hive another frame with eggs and young brood?


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"Odd split...leave or meddle?"

Eight days would be a long time for non-viable eggs to be left alone in a healthy hive. I would inspect the odd split again in about 4 days "with my reading glasses on" to see what happened to those eggs and whether there are more eggs. I would add a frame of eggs and young brood then if needed. Part of the reason I would do that would be to learn. A newly emerged virgin or a capped queen cell may have been in the box when you split that hive.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I wondered about a virgin Queen...or newly mated Queen. I did look for a Queen but they can be anywhere...even on the wall of the box.

I split 4 double boxed nucs into 8 hives. 3 had Queens that I saw, 1 had many eggs and young larvae, 3 had Queen cells...one had a lot and I set up a new nuc with a frame...and then the odd one...a few eggs, no Queen seen and no Queen cells. What struck me as really odd was when I separated the nuc boxes into 10 frame deeps I notched a few eggs in each one. On this odd one I could see where I had notched a line of cells...the notch was still evident and there were eggs sitting nicely in those notched cells.
If I see no young larvae in a few days and no fresh eggs I will give them another frame of eggs and young larvae.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Checked this hive tonight. Still no Queen seen. A few eggs and a few larvae...not many.
I gave them a partially drawn frame with eggs from another hive. They have bees covering 5+ frames so did not give them the bees with the frame. I always worry about inadvertently transferring the Queen.

I also checked my going nowhere tbh. I saw a big fat Queen but only 1 frame of 5 had significant worker brood. Nothing much happening re eggs or open larvae. I gave them a solid frame of capped brood and associated bees. I checked and saw no Queen but always worry I have moved her. If I accidently moved the good Queen over I hope she wins any battles

Will check again on the weekend.


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## Thershey (Mar 12, 2014)

Given the cool nights and not so warm days ahead in the PNW, just five frames of bees in a ten frame box has enough stress trying to stay warm. Not ideal conditions or population for rearing well fed QCs. Have you considered divvying up those 5 frames to give 5 of the other 7 new hives more resources instead of shooting for eight?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Actually I had not but now that you mention it it is certainly a consideration Ground in Washington?.
I will see what they do with the frame of eggs. The other ones I set up are super active.
This forum is great as folks are so helpful. Thanks.

Where is Battle Ground in Washington?


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## Matt F (Oct 7, 2014)

Thershey said:


> Given the cool nights and not so warm days ahead in the PNW, just five frames of bees in a ten frame box has enough stress trying to stay warm. Not ideal conditions or population for rearing well fed QCs.


Most have more experience than I, but I disagree here. I just overwintered 2 1/2 frames in a single deep. How cold is it getting? 5 frames should be able to handle temps well below freezing.


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## Thershey (Mar 12, 2014)

Point well taken however, clustering to stay alive during winter vs raising healthy well fed queen cells requires lots of bees, food and warmth. It's not by accident that the queen breeders cram their cell builders full of bees.


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## Thershey (Mar 12, 2014)

WBVC said:


> Actually I had not but now that you mention it it is certainly a consideration Ground in Washington?.
> I will see what they do with the frame of eggs. The other ones I set up are super active.
> This forum is great as folks are so helpful. Thanks.
> 
> Where is Battle Ground in Washington?


We're about 15 miles north of Vancouver USA. Btw - love your island, it's one of my wife's and my favorite places to visit. We stayed at Painters last time we were up.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Painters Lodge has great fishing. If you like that try farther north at Telegraph Cove

I looked in the "odd" hive today. Finally they have a couple of capped Queen cells. So if they had a virgin queen she didn't get back and they were greatful for the eggs I swapped into their hive. I will have to wait a while to see if these cells are fruitful or not. I guess they won't start up laying workers while they wait on the Queen cell.


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