# American Farm Bureau Announcement



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

You must be within 150 miles of the source of the at products. It doesn't help the migratory guy much


----------



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Actually, it helps the migratory guy a lot!
Read the FAQs closer. 
It covers trucks under 26000# ANYWHERE in the US.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

"The covered farm vehicle must be equipped with a special license plate or other designation by the state in which the vehicle is registered to allow for identification of the vehicle as a farm vehicle by law enforcement personnel."

Hmm. Where in California would one get such a designation?


----------



## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

Being able to burn dyed fuel should be on the list!


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Actually, it helps the migratory guy a lot!
> Read the FAQs closer.
> It covers trucks under 26000# ANYWHERE in the US.


Woo Hoo! I gladly stand corrected. This is a real "game changer" Wonder if DOT registration still be required if said farm vehicle is under 26,001 GVW


----------



## Scott J. (Feb 6, 2007)

Delete. Misread the post.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I just have to ask, I don't currently have farm plates but am in the process of getting them, If the feds don't have rules and I have N.Y. farm plates and I'm it Nevada, what rules am I required to follow, N.Y. laws/rules or the rules of the state I'm in?? I would have to guess the rules of the state I'm in as Nevada doesn't know the rules of the state I'm from.
Now at one time I had farm plates from a different state and it only allowed me to use them in adjoining states only(for instance), so if I get to nevada and there rules are you can only use them in Nevada, how do I get out of the state I guess I would have to get the state rules for every state I intend to pass through? thanks


----------



## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

i may be misinformed but i was told locally that you could run red diesel in a farm truck on the road, as long as the vehicle had "farm" plates. Anyone have a definite answer?


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I dont know how much of that i would personally do. I know they dip tanks at the local auction barn to write untaxed fuel tickets.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I just printed the amendment. That WILL be going into my travel folder where I USED to keep my hours of service records!

BTW anyone wanting to go directly to the FAQs to read up on it themselves can find it at

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/MAP-21/MAP-21-Agricultural-Exemptions-FAQs-09-26-2012.pdf


----------



## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> Woo Hoo! I gladly stand corrected. This is a real "game changer" Wonder if DOT registration still be required if said farm vehicle is under 26,001 GVW


Of the 9 trucks we run only 3 fall into that area. Plus if you check most states only alow you 150 mile for you farm for a farm tag to be valid. After that all reg apply. I will keep my class A and fill out my log book much less hassle plus I can drive any truck I need to.


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Question, does this mean you don't have to have " DOT# " if under 26,000lb, you can drive acorss state lines like a car?

P.S. and not have to do it at 1:00 a.m. in the morning.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

My take on this is that it relieves you from the regs. that the DOT enforces and it does require that you have a farm tag. You probably still need DOT numbers but I dont know that for sure. I printed those new regs. out as well to put in each truck. You can do a lot of work with an under 26,000 lb. truck, thats all we run. Seems to me that if you are running tandem axles and trailers that you are doing a lot for hire and probably cant afford to do much "dead heading" anyway. I have toyed with the idea of buying a tractor-trailer setup but when I do the math on it I come to the conclusion that with $4.00 fuel you need to run loaded all the time and pretty soon you are a trucker not a beekeeper. My solution: keep your phone full of trucker contacts, then load them to 79 grand and make them do some serious hauling while we get some sleep.


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> My solution: keep your phone full of trucker contacts,


Yeah, just start with the letter E on your phone book that way you have a good chance of the trucker showing up.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Yeah, just start with the letter E on your phone book that way you have a good chance of the trucker showing up.


:lpf:


----------



## NoDak Beekeeper (Sep 3, 2012)

Have a call into our States Fed DOT office they are doing some checking on what these new regs. mean for beekeepers. Will post back when we get some answers


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

In NY Farm Plates are different from Agricultural Plates. Farm Plates would not allow me to drive that vehicle to SC, or even to Albany. Albany being 200 miles from my home farm.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

That is not what Dan Winters told me. He is sending me some paperwork in the mail that clearly benefits having Farm tags on our trucks. I will make a post about that when it comes in the mail.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Question, does this mean you don't have to have " DOT# " if under 26,000lb, you can drive acorss state lines like a car?P.S. and not have to do it at 1:00 a.m. in the morning.


Or a CDL to drive a heavy truck and trailer?

Are we trying to get around some regulations or trying to take advantage of what appears to be the loosening of some regulations.

Does this Announcement relieve a friend of mine from having to jump through all of the hoops now that he has finally applied for his DOT number and already hgas a CDL?


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Our government constantly takes advantage of its regulations they have on us. Why shouldn't we take full advantage of regulations they loosen? I personally would like to not have to worry about having a class A CDL (as DOT requires due to over 10K capacity of trailer) whenever I hook my gooseneck trailer up to my F450. If I can get away with that just by having a live colony of bees on my truck then I may permantly mount a beehive to my F450.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What if you registered your trailer for 9,900 lbs? Would you give up your CDL?

See what I did there? It often seems like we are trying to figure out ways of getting around regulations. I am all for taking advantage of anything we are entitled to.

I recall a cpl of years ago we hgad a DOT person come to the Fall Mtng of the eshpa to talk to us about DOT regs. Once he finished giving his talk, all of the questions were "If I do this can I do that?" Questions about how to get by w/out complying, not "How do I comply?"

Just interesting. That's all.

I'll have to read this Announcement over a number of times before I fully understand it. I guess it couldn't be in more simple language, could it?


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I like where you went with that, I am not really looking on how to avoid complying with the law, I am seeing if I need to comply with the law or if the law doesn't apply to me. Lawyers exploit laws daily. Why shouldn't we exploit them if we can?

Its sort of like owning a handgun in NYS. Black Powder hand guns are still hand guns, however you do not need a pistol permit to own a black powder hand gun. Any smokeless powder hand guns require the owner to have a pistol permit.

The announcement is fairly vague with its writing. Im sure so it can be interpretted many different ways.

According to DOT they dont care what its registered for as far as being < 10K, its the carrying capacity of the trailer they care about as far as CDL is concerned.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And who says what the carrying capacity is? The manufacturer?

If you have an F-450 w/ a 10K Gooseneck, unless you overload the Gooseneck there is almost no way you can run w/ a total GVW of 26,000 lbs or more, can you? I have a 2005 F-450 and pull a trailer w/ a Bobcat and some other stuff on it and I don't have a CDL and have never been told I needed one. Who told you you needed one? Or did you have one already and would have one regardless?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

FMC Safety Regulations Pocketbook Page 376 Subpart A-General
391.2 General exemptions (b) Apairian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

Just FYI


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mark: your trailer should have a gvw stamped on it. If that number is under 10,000 lbs. and if the truck your are pulling it with is under 26,001 (you can combine them to get a max. Of 36,001)then you previously didn't need a CDL unless you were more than 150 miles (I think) from home. That has now apparently changed. I am going to guess that you probably should have had one in the past but shouldn't need one now.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My F-450's GVWR is 16,000 lbs. My Locke trailer is and always has been registered for 9,900 lbs. There may be a GVW Stamp somewhere on it, but I don't know where and no DOT Inspector has ever asked about it or searched for it. Not arguing, just stating.

Planning on avoiding a CDL for the comfort of my fellow beekeepers. lol


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> And who says what the carrying capacity is? The manufacturer?
> 
> If you have an F-450 w/ a 10K Gooseneck, unless you overload the Gooseneck there is almost no way you can run w/ a total GVW of 26,000 lbs or more, can you? I have a 2005 F-450 and pull a trailer w/ a Bobcat and some other stuff on it and I don't have a CDL and have never been told I needed one. Who told you you needed one? Or did you have one already and would have one regardless?


I dont have a CDL nor do I plan to get a CDL. My Gooseneck trailer has 3 6lbs lbs axles under it. No I have never been over 25.5K hauling bees. The DOT inspector that come and did my DOt audit last spring told me I need a CDL to pull that trailer down the road legally. I have never been bothered on the road, just stating what he told me.

Even if a trailer does not have a manufacturers tag on it its not terribly difficult to determine carrying capacity.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> FMC Safety Regulations Pocketbook Page 376 Subpart A-General
> 391.2 General exemptions (b) Apairian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.
> 
> Just FYI


I was just browsing that from the feds site. They state that 391.15 (e) and (g) still apply however. I guess you better stop texting the bees on the trailer and drive!


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

sqkcrk said:


> Planning on avoiding a CDL for the comfort of my fellow beekeepers. lol


Not sure why Mark. If I made my living from bees and moved them across states like you do, I'd be out of pickup trucks and into a heavy truck requiring a CDL.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Maybe we were just fortunate out here but I found getting a CDL fairly easy to do. A couple hours studying for the test which I am not remembering as terribly difficult and then a short trip around town with a truck and I was in business. 
I don't know about that Barry. You can do a lot of work with a sub 26K truck, I don't own anything heavier than that. I just love to load the big rigs to the max and make them earn the $2.85 to $3.00 a mile that they are charging nowadays.


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

It seems you and Mark run your bees differently. Mark is always trucking his bees here and there. If that is routine, wouldn't a heavier truck serve one better? It seems he is trying to avoid the CDL, when it might actually be a better fit for him. Are you using 550/650 size trucks?


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Were not doing things a lot different than Mark just on a bigger scale. Up north we were using mostly a 14' bed and a 20' bed to pool bees into 4 different localized holding yards to minimize our driving. Down south we unloaded and scattered all the bees with one 14' bed. We use pretty large yards through the winter down south and arent hauling any more than 10 miles. Bees dont care if they are crowded a bit through the winter and it sure makes shipping to California easier. In the spring we like to limit nuc yards to what can be hauled with a 5500 on a 14' bed which is 140 singles. I took some good pics in Texas this fall maybe I should try my luck at posting a few.


----------



## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

please do Jim!


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

http://s470.beta.photobucket.com/user/jimlyon/library/Texas fall 2012
Not ideal but here's a link that should work.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> In the spring we like to limit nuc yards to what can be hauled with a 5500 on a 14' bed which is 140 singles.


You sure you don't mean 120 singles? I get ten pallets on the deck of my F-450 w/ a 14 ft bed. 14 ft 3 inches actually.


----------



## sjvbee (Dec 27, 2006)

Nice looking bee's Jim


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> http://s470.beta.photobucket.com/user/jimlyon/library/Texas%20fall%202012
> Not ideal but here's a link that should work.


Didn't work for me.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Didn't work for me.


Must be password protected. I am not as tech savvy as you Mark.  Let me try something else.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> You sure you don't mean 120 singles? I get ten pallets on the deck of my F-450 w/ a 14 ft bed. 14 ft 3 inches actually.


Actually I meant 160. 40 per layer 4 high. Sorry.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That makes sense. Do you go three high w/ story and a halfs on that same truck? 120?


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> That makes sense. Do you go three high w/ story and a halfs on that same truck? 120?


You sure could, it would only be a few inches higher. We no longer do any story and a halves.


----------



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Sorry to say, but there is a fly in the ointment.
A friend of mine just went through an audit with O-DOT and the gal told him that these exemptions only apply to 150 miles from the farm.
This very nice lady has been wrong before so I am going to contact the farm bureau guy and report back.
Stay tuned.
:/


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Give em hell Harry. I thought the gibberish was pretty clear, at least as far as governments regs. go.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> Must be password protected. I am not as tech savvy as you Mark.  Let me try something else.


The Photobucket link to Jim's album worked fine for me. I didn't do anything technical, just clicked on the link Jim provided.


----------



## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

why are your trailers registered 9900 or less? Does it require a cdl if it is more? I never heard of that before.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

scokat said:


> why are your trailers registered 9900 or less? Does it require a cdl if it is more? I never heard of that before.


Yes. If the truck is over 26,000 or the trailer is over 10,000 lbs. Is what the law has read. However what is a source of debate is whether those have been repealed everywhere or just within 150 miles of your home.


----------



## benstung (Mar 20, 2011)

nice pics jim. 
we are trying a new trailer it takes 7 rows of bee's and really has a smooth ride. This trailer can take 112 doubles 2 high-12k+ and handles it fine. is it illegal?

its in these pics some where
http://s1293.beta.photobucket.com/user/cbehlke/library/


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Nice pics as well Cory. I am assuming the hives with the nice honey crops came from our cells?


----------



## benstung (Mar 20, 2011)

Yes Jim that is a good assumption.
now just need to know why some weren't as good eh


----------



## NoDak Beekeeper (Sep 3, 2012)

Any new updates on this? keep getting the run around with my contact at DOT . Must be as clear as mud for them too.


----------



## fat drone (Dec 15, 2004)

Im wondering if a truck with a farm license still needs to get a trip and fuel permit when going into california.


----------



## beebze (Sep 24, 2007)

I've talked to beekeepers down in Ca and the Ca dot have 3 yrs to implement the new law. And from what I understand Ca is going to take the 3 full yrs to implement these new rule changes. So don't take any chances keep doing what you've been doing.


----------

