# First sugar roll...



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Since you don't seem to be getting much interest....I'll offer my opinion. If you bought your bees from a reputable supplier of treatment free, locally adapted stock....then rest easy. If not....be cautious.
Good luck.
PS Congratulations for having the good judgment to check.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

dkofoed said:


> With a 300 (1/2 cup) bee sample, taken from the middle of the broodnest, I counted a grand total of 8 mites for one hive and 9 for the other. Divide that by 3 and we're looking at 2-3 mites per 100 bees..


I think you forgot to multiply times 2 which would give you 4-6. 
See ; http://scientificbeekeeping.com/fighting-varroa-reconnaissance-mite-sampling/ and
http://nybeewellness.org/diagnostics/mite-check/
for more information on proper sampling based on the technique you use. 
I find the counts on nybeewellness tx. thresholds a bit high but there is a wide range of opinion on that. Your own Country has different standards. The site has excellent reference materials.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

I think you are in the not a disaster beyond fixing now but too high and time to treat area. winevines is on target. Ontario bee did much of the teaching for ny beewllness training programs, this year. their recommendation is treat at 3 to 4 in august/early September, 1 to 2 mites per 100, alcohol wash in the spring. you are double that. as a student I highly recommend ny beewellness and Ontario bee. in far southern areas you may almost get away with 4 to 6 [my opinion]. Ontario bee is focused on maintaining bee health, in Canada bees are more expensive than in the usa. climate has a lot to do with what you can get away with.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

dkofoed said:


> It's my first year with 2 (brand new) hives, both have built up nicely and are strong. I've decided to try treatment-free from the get-go (yes I know there are a ton of naysayers that say people like me are crazy and shouldn't start treatment free, but "ease" into it) ... and i decided today to try my hand at "sugar rolling" my 2 hives, just out of a burning curiosity to see how infested my hives are.
> 
> With a 300 (1/2 cup) bee sample, taken from the middle of the broodnest, I counted a grand total of 8 mites for one hive and 9 for the other. Divide that by 3 and we're looking at 2-3 mites per 100 bees.
> 
> I thought that seemed pretty decent for this time of the year ... am i right? I know the sugar roll method isn't completely accurate, but I (think) I was actually pleasantly surprised.


If you didn't start with TF bees, you are going to be very disappointed.... You have very little chance of getting two new hives to survive TF if they came from treated stock.
I don't think your numbers aren't too high, but it's amazing how fast that can change. 
Good luck.


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

first year colonies are usually low in mites. lets us know next year at this time what your TF mite counts are. most likely you will be shocked and your colonies will be on there way out


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

dk,

i think it's very cool that you sampled your bees. i wish i would have made the time to have done more of that from the beginning. you won't really know whether your bees can handle that level of mites or not until you see how they do getting through winter and how well they build up in the spring. i agree that it will be interesting to see what happens to the levels by next year and beyond. i am also interested in what type of bees you have and whether or not they came from tf stock. thanks for sharing your results.


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## dkofoed (Feb 25, 2014)

They are most certainly not TF stock - I bought New Zealand packages (which I've regretted a touch since learning about better, local varieties). The queens are both good though, they were never superceded and both hives built up very nicely. I'm running small cell foundation, but clearly that hasn't totally resolved the mite count. I think if my numbers were much higher I would consider treating ... BUT ... I think right now they're handleable and I will monitor them quite closely from next spring on. It'll be an interesting experiment at any rate. I wouldn't love losing the bees, but on the other hand I only have 2 hives and also wouldn't mind starting from new TF stock, so either way I'm OK with. I think my queens are a carni hybrid (whatever that means )


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## estreya (Apr 20, 2014)

Dkofoed, my husband and i are in the exact same situation. We were thinking that if our hives survived the winter, we'd re-queen in the Spring with a treatment-free, "local" queen. But on my regional board, i was told to consider that option very carefully, since winter survival is no small thing either.

What a complex matrix of considerations this beekeeping is, yes? 

Good luck with your hives. Keep us posted!


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

I have seen no hard scientific studies that show that treatment free genetics are the slightest bit different. there seems to be a lot of internet hope and hype that this may not be the case. many are quite militant about this wish.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

What are treatment free genetics? I tried some bees from treatment free suppliers last year..... all died out to mites.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The bees I bought for mite resistence are still alive in my colonies mostly. I use brood breaks and some drone culling too. I have small cell foundation too. Something is working and I make no claims as to what. Lots of rabid people on both sides of this one. I am just happy that I have not had to treat for two years. Now this spring if I do a sugar roll and find too many mites, I may do something different. You can't keep bees unless you keep your bees alive to keep! Lots of people having good success with OAV. I haven't tried it because my bottom boards only have a 1/4" deep entrance.


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