# Restore Liquid Armor product for hive tops



## johns bees (Jan 25, 2009)

those tops look real good . Iuse the spray on rubber you see on tV I only need one coat.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

John, I bought some of that I think-spray on rubber sealer? Have not used it yet, Might be a good top coat for these. Thanks


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

What's wrong with metal? Trim coil tops take me about 5 min and it even comes in colors.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

What is a trim coil top?
Metal is probably the best, you are right about that.
I was just hoping to find a product I could just paint the tops with.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Use Advantec for your tops, and you will not have to paint or cover with metal.

cchoganjr


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Trim coil stock (there's probably a more proper name for it) is metal that is sold in 2'x50' rolls that is used by roofers and siders. It is similar to the metal that is commonly used on telescoping covers but heavier. They sell it in any building materials store. White on one side, colored on the other. To bend the edges, I have a brake (metal bender) but good results can be made by clamping between 2 boards or even just pounding it around the corners with a rubber mallet.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Advantec is a very good product, too.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

LOL, OK, What is Advantec?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

It's a plywood-like product that comes in 4x8 sheets. Very weather resistant and stable. Ask at Lowes or Home Depot. It might not have the "look" you want, though


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I'll go tomorrow and get some! Hee hee, my husband thanks you I'm sure


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

It's good stuff. Heavy, easy to cut, costs about the same as 3/4 plywood. Lasts unprotected in the weather for years


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Aluminum flashing or coil stock as noted will last forever, at least longer than I'll be around anyway. If the rest of the cover is well painted, no deterioration is likely.

Not as pretty, certainly, but no paint like material is going to last anywhere near as long a sheet aluminum.

Peter


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

That rubber mallet is good info. I needed it.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>To bend the edges, I have a brake (metal bender)

How do you make nice straight cuts?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Has anyone tried mobile home roofing paint?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

odfrank said:


> How do you make nice straight cuts?


Score with utility knife, then flex. BTW, beebee trees did well this year


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> It's plywood-like product that comes in 4x8 sheets. Very weather resistant and stable.

Advantech is actually more related to OSB (oriented strand board) than to plywood. It is essentially OSB, (flakes of wood pressed together with resin under high pressure and temperatures to form panels) but Advantech is manufactured with more resin than standard OSB. The additional resin makes it more stable in wet conditions than OSB, and _possibly _plywood. 

http://www.advantechperforms.com/product-lineup/


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> Has anyone tried mobile home roofing paint?


Really?, now you want to give your hives a trailer park look too? Isn't the WW1 bomb crate look bad enough?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

odfrank... I have a young man bend mine for me, but, he says to cut it straight, just stick it in the brake, score with a utility knife a couple of times, bend in opposite direction and you have a nice straight cut.

BTW..Finished 2 more square hives today.

cchogan


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Lauri..If you want a pretty look on your tops, Use Advantec, scorch the wood with a propane torch or blow torch and then finish with a transparent or light color stain. Makes a pretty top. I just paint mine white, but, really does not have to be painted.

cchoganjr


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I think Lauri's a pyro the way she torches everything. Hey, that's probably what happened to your Mann Lake smoker!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Good tips on cutting the aluminum sheeting. I can cut it straight, but the edge is sharp. I'll try the score and bend method..
Thanks again.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Edge is still sharp! Not a problem when it is installed, tight up against wood.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Use Advantec for your tops, and you will not have to paint or cover with metal.
> 
> cchoganjr


I've been curious about Advantec for a while and think I'll test some this next season. I'm making a bunch of 3-frame divided nucs using a deep box and need tops for each compartment. Would Advantec hold up as covers for the individual 3-frame sections? I'm mostly worried about warping. Thanks


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

AstroBee... I have been using Advantec for about 4 years. I use it on 3, 4, and 5 frame nucs as well as standard 10 frame hives and square hives (13 frame). I have experimented both ways, paint and no paint. Virtually no warp or separation, however I have heard that some people had not had as good luck as I have.

It will warp if you place one side or one end higher than the other and leave in the sun, but, when used on the top of hives I have not had a problem. It has a 50 year guarantee, but, it hasn't been around for 50 years, so who knows.

Perhaps others can give you their experience with Advantec also. I use it for all my tops, (135-185 hives).

cchoganjr


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm a builder. I tend to old school choices in building materials. When advantec came out here, I was skeptical. It was replacing a product that was terrible (3/4" OSB floor sheathing). I bought a piece and left a chunk of it out in the weather. It has now been out there over 2 years, virtually unchanged.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> It has a 50 year guarantee, but, it hasn't been around for 50 years, so who knows.


You are right to be skeptical about Advantech's 50 year warranty.


> Exclusions from the Warranty: This warranty does not cover damage, claims, *moisture absorption *or defects in the product including delamination, warping, cracking or splitting due to: misuse or improper handling, secondary treatments, storage, transport, installation or maintenance; alterations to the structure after the original installation of AdvanTech panels; physical forces such as fire, floods, natural disasters and other acts of God; corrosive elements; damages caused by persons other than HEW; termites or other wood destroying organisms, including mold and mildew; or *use of the panels other than as a building subfloor **or sheathing*.
> http://www.huberwood.com/media/documents/pdf/ADVANTECH/AdvanTechFlooringSheathingWarranty309.pdf


Advantech is a fine product, but it is intended to be used as subflooring in a finished structure. It has the ability to withstand rain/snow for a _limited time _while the building is under construction and the subfloor is exposed to the elements. If you leave it exposed permanently, the warranty is void!


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Rader Sidetrack.. Don't know how long limited time is, but, I have been using it on 135-185 hives for the past four years. We get lots of rain and snow here in Kentucky and I have not had any problems with it.

I am not concerned about the warranty for out of purpose use.

As you can see on the attached photo, this bunch of hives has the Advantec tops with holes for thru the top feeders. These tops have not been painted, most of mine have. I also use Advanted on telescoping covers(when I use them) and one advantage is the Advantec is heavy and you do not need a weight on them.









cchoganjr


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Cleo,

I think the next time I make up supers I'll try Advantech. Did you weld up those hive stands? What material are you using?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I really like Advantec. I am attaching a photo of a bunch of hives with telescoping covers using Advantec. Notice the snow.

No, I did not weld the stands. In 1998 Reverand Page had to go into a Nursing Home and I bought all his beekeeping operation. He ran 75-100 hives for about 50 years. He and his sons owned and operated Page Well Drilling. They drilled oil and water wells. When their workers were not busy, they would weld these hive stands using 2 inch steel pipe. He had about 35 of these stands.

I made a few 5 frame Nucs using Advantec, box joints and rabbet for the frame rest. I use Advantec for all the bottom boards in Nucs that I build. It is a little too heavy for bottom boards in 10 frame and square (13 frame) hives.









cchoganjr


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> Cleo, I think the next time I make up supers I'll try Advantech.


What? no more middle of the night wandering the streets of San Francisco by moonlight for old packing crates? You will lose your friendship with the old Chinese ladies taking aluminum cans out of people's recycling containers.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I have to admit I can be pretty cheap and scrounge construction sites for 3/4" plywood. I haven't had much luck lately so I think I'll try Avantech. You're probably going to have poor Scut do your scrounging for you now.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

The downside of advantec for boxes is that's it's quite heavy. I see that as an advantage with tops, though


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

cg3....... You are right about it being heavy. I don't think you would want to make supers or hive bodies from it. I have made a few Nucs using it, but I am concerned with the rabbet and the top of the ends and sides, but, especially the thinness of the front and rear rabbet. I am concerned that they may separate in time. I am trying them both painted and unpainted to see how they hold up. If i get a chance I will make a photo of a Nuc made from Advantec.

cchoganjr


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Charlie..cg3..Others... Here are a couple of photos of a 5 frame Nuc made from Advantec. Everything is Advantec except the side rails of the bottom board, they are cypress. I have 4 of these out as swarm traps. Two are painted, two are unpainted. Will see what one year does to them, about April 15 2013.

















cchoganjr


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

On my plywood tops I run a little bead of outdoor window caulking to seal the edges and then paint. I imagine if I did that with Advantech, the tops would last for ever.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

My home depot dosen't carry Adventech, but here is a product I have been eyeing for a while. I finally bought one today and it was the easiest top I have ever made. They are about $6.00 each. (Remember I live in a cool climate and can get away with black..prefer it actually. It gets insulation on the underside of the lid anyway. 
Here's the product info:

http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx

here's the assembly:
Comes in a 2'x2' size










Back side is OSB type backing. That's why I shied away from it, but since I've learned from this thread there are other OSB looking products that perform well, I thought I'd try it. I haven't found any real specs on it, but it is supposed to be for sub floors with moisture problems. I assume it is somewhat moisture resistant.



















Heres what I painted the exposed edges and wood frame with. This goes a LONG way and covers well. This is also a new product for me. I am impressed with the texture and coverage. Not sure about the cure time. I don't expose the hives to anything before it is completly cured and has no smell. Usually I give it a week to set and offgas.










Gave it a second coat of the black rubber seal spray. I use 2 1/2" material for my frame so I can stuff a 1" or 1 1/2 foam insulation in it.










If you did not want black just get yourself some Fusion paint for plastic and spray it. It's not a great photo, it has sawdust all over it.

I'll take the scrap from the top and let it soak in a bucket of water overnight. We'll see how it handles that moisture test. I'll also take a heat gun to the plastic to see how it holds up to a hot summertime sunny day. This product is for an interior application-so the plastic top may not be UV resistant-subject to fading or warping. Time will tell.

UPDATE: The wood portion passed the bucket test. After 24 hours of soaking it has no apparent swelling or strength compromising changes. I also used a heat gun on a scrap of the plastic..it withstood a tremendous amount of heat without any changes-I even held a bit near the burn can's hot coals. It never caught fire and slowly melted after some close exposure. 
So the only question now is will it fade or crack after lengthy UV exposure. 
I'm making up ten or so of these and will let you know.

Here's how they look on hives:





























Here's how I built the bench if you're interested. My husband helped me put in 6x6 pressure treated in concrete. (Left over from a barn project) After calculating how much 20 hives would weigh in the fall, I built it stout! No sagging for me..level too.



























Here's how it looks with hives. Obviously spring time.










The mesh top you see on the bench is some kind of fiberglass product. We cut it on the table saw to fit. It came in 4x8 sheets from a salvage yard.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Very nice.

cchoganjr


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

Just to be clear, while advatech is structurally as OSB sheet good, the bonding process and resins used are radically different (and far superior) to standard OSB....not even close to similar in performance and durability.

I too was very skeptical of the stuff at first...because I knew what OSB was like. I build wooden boats for a living and like solid wood (or sometimes high end marine ply) But my contractor friends convinced me to try it for our house's subfloor. I have scraps from that project over 10 years ago that I have been field testing unprotected in exterior applications since then.....they have held up astoundingly well.
There is no substitute for true time testing, and it could be the stuff in the house will break down into worthless flakes after 30 years (goodness I hope not!); but for hive tops....no worries.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I did a search on this product and found nothing and then I added OSB and wa-la. I also did the product locator (like Lauri did not see it at the big box) and found the Parr and Milwaukie lumbers both carry it just down the street. I was going to get some plywood for the drain pan of my Cider press today at Mr. Plywood. I may change my mind, since I had good luck with the product recommendations of this forum so far.


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

Cider is acidic stuff, I would be hesitant to use advatech for direct food contact without looking into that first....at least give it a food safe surface coating. It does have a waxy feel when new that rubs off onto your hands......


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

No matter I came up empty for Advantec at both places. I asked about it and they looked at me like I was nuts. One guy actually was calling the distributor and when he found out I wanted only a couple of pieces rather than a bunch just laughed at me. I would not go back there if he did start to stock it. I read about the wax and epoxy mix and was wondering if polyurethane would adhere.
I got some nice plywood panel cut offs at Mr. Plywood. Far nicer than I was expecting and got out of there for about $11.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The Advantech website has a dealer locator feature, here:

http://www.advantechperforms.com/getting-started/product-locator.aspx

There are lots of results for the Portland, Oregon metro area, including ProBuild in Clackamas:

*ProBuild* *- 1 miles*
15877 SE 98th Ave, Clackamas, OR


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Here is another simple top I love.
Just a frame with twin or triple wall polycarbonate screwed on the top. Not a solar wax melter if you have a fully screened bottom board and an upper entrance/ventilaton. Might just keep the SHB away from congrigating at the top. ( I don't have SHB thank God, but I have heard light coming in from the top can help those that do)
The poly has an R value by itself and gives some very nice solar gain in the winter months. Or slip in some ridged insualation for a more insulated application.




































Silver side of insulation up for a clean look.










I had some scraps of poly I saved from larger projects, but it works so well, I'd have no problem buying a full sheet to cut up for these tops.
Here is where I buy it:
http://www.mcconkeyco.com/products/71


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Radar, I hit the locator and went to two of the stores before I just quit. I should have let my fingers do the walking first at 12 miles/ gal.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

UPDATE: on the Liquid Armor product. After a week of curing, I still was not satisfied with the finished product. When I ran my hand over it, the color and sand would come off a bit onto my hand. A very dull finish..just did not look like it would be a waterproof as I wanted. So I coated it with gloss spar urethane. Nice thing about the raised texture, I could really apply a thick coat of urethane without it running. NOW these tops are done. Nice finish and should last for years..which is the ultimate goal here.
Here are the tops with just the liquid armor:










Now with the urethane coating:



















And in use:


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

How long do you get with clear Spar? I am in the same area and have just been painting but as a Junior Woodworker I love the look of the grain.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

If you have a telescoping cover that keeps some of the rain off the box's, after two years they still look like I just made them. The spray cans don;t do the job. Roll it on as heavy as possible with out runs. Roll it-don't brush it, it's easier. Three coats-heavy on the box joint ends. 

The tops that are urethaned are good for about 2 years, then need to be cleaned and another coat is beneficial. The weak point is the end cut on the plywood. If there is any spot that is not solid, fill with clear silicone first, then coat with urethane. 

Here you see two year old box's. Some box's are burned lightly with propane torch, some of the center box's are natural with urethane and the top box's were burned longer with a map gas hand held burner.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I like the look of all of them (as I have said many times before). MAP, you spent more on the oxygen and MAP than on the Spar! How do you cut your hand holds? I use the Hogan jig and the skill saw method but I have a good router and would think it would be the proper tool for the job.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I bought the map gas hand held burner for the better quality head and larger flame output, But use propane in it, now that the map gas bottle is out. Although it made quicker work of the burning, it is too expensive for me to keep using. I can refill my propane bottles here at home form a larger tank.


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