# Wrapping and winter feeding



## JD's Bees (Nov 25, 2011)

I feed my single deeps 3-4 gallons of syrup and try to be done by mid Sept. This is enough to get them at least to mid March when I do my first check on the hives since wrapping in Oct. I like to open the hives with temperatures above 0C and a cloudy day is better than bright sun to keep less bees from flying out.
I have never used fondant or mouse guards so cant help with that. The bottom boards get cleaned when I unwrap and if the bottom entrance gets blocked during winter they can use the top entrance.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for your input! Glad to know I can open up when it's 0C+. 

I fed them wayyyy more than 3-4 gallons of syrup, but I was really late starting out. Looking back, I'd have done things differently, but too late now.

I don't have a top entrance so they can't get out that way. I'll just keep an eye on it, maybe use a skewer to free up some space and sweep it out if it gets real bad.


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

Zoe, 
I think you are doing great. I also think the second candy board is going to last them quite a while since now they are clustered and eating the supplies instead of storing them.

I also recommend giving them an upper entrance to help them out if the bottom entrance gets plugged up or snowed shut.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

merince said:


> Zoe,
> I think you are doing great. I also think the second candy board is going to last them quite a while since now they are clustered and eating the supplies instead of storing them.
> 
> I also recommend giving them an upper entrance to help them out if the bottom entrance gets plugged up or snowed shut.


Thanks for the encouragement!

On the advice of my bee supplier, I actually stacked an empty broodbox on top so that I could make sure of the wraps I had (which are designed for a two-box hive). The order is:

Bottom insulation
Bottom board
Brood box (bees, frames)
Spacer with candy
Entrance cover
Pillow (insulation / moisture absorption)
Empty brood box
Top cover

Now, I could VERY easily cut the wrap so that it fits in a single brood box if that would make it easier to fashion a top entrance.

Do you guys make your own? Any special way to do it without losing too much heat? I guess the third pic here is a good guide: http://mbbeekeeping.com/single-hive-wraps/

And if I make this entrance, can I still use the pillow for insulation and moisture control? Do I NEED moisture control (to prevent condensation dripping on the bees) with a top entrance?

Thanks! Frankly - this is the first I hear of a top entrance! I am sure I saw it briefly but disregarded it because it is routinely -40 here in the winter, but the hive IS somewhat protected from the worst winds (there is forest a few feet West and North of the hive).


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Do you have a bee cozy on your hive? That is a good system and comes from your area I believe. At any rate, it sounds like it is not hard for you to get thru your wrap and check your hive. I would suggest that you not use pie plates to form fondant but make a large square of fondant a couple inches thick. Then on that nice day or warmer that you describe, have a warm replacement ready and check them periodically thru the winter. They are keeping the cluster warm not the whole box. Opening is not a great thing but if it is quick, quiet and seldom does little harm. I have upper entrances so I don't worry about bottom boards plugging. My lower entrance is not blocked but is covered by the wrap. If you have a screened bottom board, for goodness sake plug the airflow thru it completely.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Vance G said:


> Do you have a bee cozy on your hive? That is a good system and comes from your area I believe. At any rate, it sounds like it is not hard for you to get thru your wrap and check your hive. I would suggest that you not use pie plates to form fondant but make a large square of fondant a couple inches thick. Then on that nice day or warmer that you describe, have a warm replacement ready and check them periodically thru the winter. They are keeping the cluster warm not the whole box. Opening is not a great thing but if it is quick, quiet and seldom does little harm. I have upper entrances so I don't worry about bottom boards plugging. My lower entrance is not blocked but is covered by the wrap. If you have a screened bottom board, for goodness sake plug the airflow thru it completely.


It's not a bee cozy, it's called BeeDry, it looks like this:

http://debbeesbees.ca/beedry-winter-hive-protection.php

Yep, it's easy to manipulate however extended messing around with the bottom entrance would require removing the lid and sliding the sleeve up a few inches. So the idea of a top entrance is appealing! 

Do you block it with a mouse guard or anything?

If I make a top entrance, should I block the bottom entrance? There would be some air flow until it got snowed in, unless I dig it out.

Yeah I didn't like the pie plates either and I used lasagna pans for the rest of it. I did break up the circles of fondants so they I could get more on the board (fill in the gaps between the circles with little bits and pieces - if that makes sense).

My bottom board is solid and there's insulation under it.

So here is what I'm thinking, using this as well as a guide:
http://brookfieldfarmhoney.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/winter-insulation-for-bee-hives/

Remove the empty brood box and cut the wrap so that it fits a single brood box

Order:
Bottom insulation
Bottom board
Brood box (with bees, frames)
Spacer with fondant and hole in the side for top entrance
Top cover
Pillowtop
Lid

The only thing is I might have to make the spacer a bit higher (I guess I could fit more candy in that way) because my lid is quite deep (the sides of the lid are several inches tall, I think). That also means, though, that the hole is directly (a few inches) above the tops of the frames with no insulation between the frames and the top entrance.

OR I could do this:
Bottom insulation
Bottom board
Brood box (with bees, frames)
Spacer with fondant and hole in the side for top entrance
*A second space with a piece of styrofroam in it with 1/4-1/2" of space all the way around for bees and hole in the side of the spacer for top entrance*
Top cover
Pillowtop
Lid

That second idea actually seems like it could work ok. Do you think it is good?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

More information on _top entrances_ from Michael Bush is here:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm
Note that his bees are in Nebraska, which is plenty cold in the winter.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> More information on _top entrances_ from Michael Bush is here:
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm
> Note that his bees are in Nebraska, which is plenty cold in the winter.


Thanks, that's very helpful! I will try to make do with my telescopic lid this winter (time is short to find alternatives) but will fashion a top entrance using the second order of stuff in my previous post... unless anyone tells me otherwise


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Hmmm - you know the telescoping lid? It doesn't fit tight around the sides - there's probably 1/4" of wiggle room on each side (I know this because the wrap material is snug between the sides of the lid and the sides of the brood box).

So, for the top entrance, could I just make a hole in the spacer, even if it's covered by the lid? Would the bees find their way out of the hole, down the inner side of the telescoping lid, and out? 

Kind of like this (except the lid has four sides, not just two, obviously).


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Some do as you have described - I do not believe it adequate and have never seen bees make use of it. What I do (for winter) is turn the notched inner cover upside down; cover the hole in the inner cover with duct tape; place 1.5" foam insulation on top of the inner cover; set the outer cover on top of the foam; run a strap around the hive and tighten. I've seen this upper entrance used lots.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi Andrew,

So you would recommend a more "open" hole? One that is not blocked or shadowed by the side, more like this image (look, I'm getting better at Paint! )










In what you describe, I can't understand where the entrance is. Is it the "notch" in the inner cover? If I did that, the lip/sides of my top cover would still cover the notch, even with 1.5" of insulation. I think the lip on my top cover it at least 4" deep.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

The notch is exposed with the outer covers that I use. If your lip is indeed 4 inches (that's a lot!) it would cover the entrance and you'll need to do something different - I have no suggestions at the moment.

I don't believe in leaving feed on the hive "just in case." Either the bees are up to proper winter weight or they are not. I will give the bees fondant over the winter if I observe them to be out of stores. I started feeding mid September with the goal of having the bees at their wintering weight by mid October. My method starts by not harvesting honey from the brood nest - only from supers. The colonies that needed feeding this year were the ones that did not make surplus. Some were from hives I had taken brood from in July - another few were late July swarms and a couple of nucs made up this summer.

How rough is the weather in Ontario? Your wintering plans are overkill for my area.

I suppose you might put an entrance in the spacer where you put the fondant.

I just took another look at the drawing you posted. I don't think that there should be 1/4" of space around the insulation for the bees. I would put that on top of the inner cover with no way for the bees to get to it - bees will alas chew on Styrofoam. Wish I knew why. In any event, the Styrofoam should sit flush on whatever it is on top of.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

4" might be an exaggeration, but it's a heavy-duty big lid. It's at least 3", anyway. That's why I figured I'd just use a spacer to raise the lid a few inches so I can make an exposed hole.

I think that feeding the bees in my case is probably a necessity or at least a warranted precaution. I didn't harvest any honey (the 1 cup I did get when I destroyed comb they built in an empty area -- rookie mistake on my part -- I gave back to them) but I got such a late start (late July) that they didn't have that much foraging time. When I combined the hives in September, I was able to give them 10 pretty solid frames, but some areas were unbuilt and there are a lot bees in there now what with having combined the hives. I am concerned but optimistic, and have tried to everything in my power to put the odds of surviving the winter on their side.

Is there a downside or risk to feeding them over the winter that I should weigh against the benefits of having food available?

We are zone 5 where I am. 0 to 5F (-15C) would be considered reasonably mild, and we get weeks-long stretches of -4 to -10F (-20-25C) with windchills of -40 (not that it would get that cold within the walls of a structure). It is starting to freeze overnight now and we will start to see thaw/spring in mid to late March or April if we're unlucky.

The gap around the styrofoam that I read about was so that the bees could get around it and access the entrance hold while still providing some protection directly over the frames/candy board. How about replacing the styrofoam (the lavender layer in my drawing) with an inner cover with the hole in the middle left open? Then they can get to the entrance hole by way of the inner cover hole, but there's still some insulation directly above the frames/candy board.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I'm in zone 5 too - I would have (in order from bottom to top) inner cover, insulation, quilt box (what you are calling a pillow - different terms are used in different locations), outer cover. The use of both insulation and a quilt box seems overkill to me.

Keep the bees away from the insulation - as I said in my last post they will try eating it - and that does nobody good.

The main purpose of your top insulation is to minimize condensation - the BeeDry is primarily a wind break.

25F here last night.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Andrew Dewey said:


> I'm in zone 5 too - I would have (in order from bottom to top) inner cover, insulation, quilt box (what you are calling a pillow - different terms are used in different locations), outer cover. The use of both insulation and a quilt box seems overkill to me.
> 
> Keep the bees away from the insulation - as I said in my last post they will try eating it - and that does nobody good.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, i meant that i would use the inner cover in place of insulation (styrofoam). Just as a windbreak above the frames.

So you would put the entrance hole below the inner cover, in the space where the candy is, or is that too close to the frames.

The beedry actually has some moisture absorbency to it. I don't think its the same thing as a quilt box - the beedry pillow is just a piece of metallic-looking insulation but there is some kind of moisture absorbency built in to the center. But its bendy and stuff, it's not an actual solid box or anything.


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## Honey In The Meadow (Jul 9, 2012)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Some do as you have described - I do not believe it adequate and have never seen bees make use of it. What I do (for winter) is turn the notched inner cover upside down; cover the hole in the inner cover with duct tape; place 1.5" foam insulation on top of the inner cover; set the outer cover on top of the foam; run a strap around the hive and tighten. I've seen this upper entrance used lots.


This is basically what I do in New Brunswick, Canada; only I add a empty super on top of the inner cover and add in a piece of pink insulation in the empty super and outer cover on top and wrap it all with a bee cozy.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Honey In The Meadow said:


> This is basically what I do in New Brunswick, Canada; only I add a empty super on top of the inner cover and add in a piece of pink insulation in the empty super and outer cover on top and wrap it all with a bee cozy.



What is the purpose of the strap? I don't strap my hive... I put cinderblocks on the lid. Should I be strapping?


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Zoe said:


> What is the purpose of the strap? I don't strap my hive... I put cinderblocks on the lid. Should I be strapping?


The function is the same. If you've got a supply of cinder blocks you don't need straps. I run about 40 colonies. Straps in that volume are_* much *_easier to work with.

And to answer an earlier question - my upside down notched inner cover sits directly on the brood chamber - so there is maybe 1cm separating the frame tops from the upper entrance. I have not observed any issues with this arrangement.


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Andrew Dewey said:


> The function is the same. If you've got a supply of cinder blocks you don't need straps. I run about 40 colonies. Straps in that volume are_* much *_easier to work with.
> 
> And to answer an earlier question - my upside down notched inner cover sits directly on the brood chamber - so there is maybe 1cm separating the frame tops from the upper entrance. I have not observed any issues with this arrangement.


10-4. Makes sense! Thanks so much for your help!

If I put an inner cover under the spacer with the entrance hole in it, do you think that would hinder the bees' path to the entrance? I believe you when I say it works for you, and that it likely would for me as well, but I find it difficult to wrap my brain around and accept it!


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## parksguyy (Aug 29, 2012)

Hey Zoe,
I'm just an hours drive from you near Smiths Falls ... I keep my hives just outside of Frankville (about 20min away) ... second year beek with 4 hives.
I also use the BeeDry system from Debbie Hutchins, its quick and simply which is nice when you're doing this in November. I also provide my hives with a wind break as well, even though they are along a fence line with some bushes at their back. I generally will feed the bees a 2:1 sugar syrup starting my mid September and finishing up mid October, depending on the weather. I like to give the hives some time before wrapping to evaporate any moisture if they need to, hense the mid October shut down of syrup. You need an upper entrance and the simpliest way is using a inner cover with a notch in it, if yours doesn't have one now ... cut one into it from the rimmed side. This will sit on top of your brood chamber or you could place a rim between your inner cover and your brood chamber, if you want to leave them some food. If you leave your notch facing upward, your pillow will go on top ... but I would get two pieces of 3/8" strapping cut to fit into the rim of your inner cover so the pillow can rest on them which raises it up to create a space for ventilating that moist air out of the hive and allows the bees to use it as an entrance/exit if they want. On top of that would go your outer cover then strap it or but a paver stone on it to keep it there. Observations from my first wintering ... all our hives made it thru the winter ok, I went in to them in Febraru and gave them fondant and followed that with a pollen patties ... call it insurance. I did notice some moisture and some mold in some of the hives too ... thats why I mentioned the strapping across the top the inner cover ... I think the pillow was blocking the hole in the inner partially. I should also mention that you shouldn't necessarily put the pillow on until December, once winter has really settled in. If you have been feeding with syrup, there may be alot of moisture already present and by placing that pillow on then, its effectiveness is not going to be there once it is cool enough to create condensation. Last year I also reduced my entrance to the smallest hole, I really questioned that when I cleaned the bottom boards in the spring ... some had alot of dead moldy bees and I really wondered how effective that small hole was for ventilation. This winter I am going to use the larger opening with a mouse guard ... also turn your entrance reducer upside down ... that way if you do get alot of dead bees they won't block your hole if its turned upward. I'm also going to place a block of styofoam ontop of my outer cover ... I just happen to have a bunch of 2" stuff. I've debated about cutting it to fit in a honey super and using it that way, but then the bees will chew on it so you need to keep them away from it. I'm also debating about whether or not to turn my inner cover over so the hole is downward into the brood chamber ... many do this ... but you then have to place something onto top of your inner cover (homasote, black joe) that will absorb some moisture because it all won't vent out the inner cover, or you tape that hole over ... I'm not sure thats a good idea because you won't have anywhere for any excess moisture to go. Ventilation is key! I also made some fondant , but it turned out harder than expected ... I have some now on the hives. So when I wrap this weekend I have to decide whether I am leaving it there or not ... If I do, then my 1" rim will go down on my brood chamber, followed by the inner cover, pillow and outer cover. I won't know until I check this weekend to see if they are eating that fondant/candy and if they have sealed that rim to the brood chamber. If they have I will leave it as is and likely place a second block of food for them and close things up for the winter. If there is excess moisture it would be absorbed by some of that candy which would be a good thing. Whether it last until February is questionable, but it gives them two sources of food for most of the winter.
Hope this helps


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks so much for your input!

I think I will omit the first inner cover (that one that would have gone above the fondant spacer and below the space with the opening). I guess, since warm air is liable to rise and exit via that hole, it's not as though cold will be coming in. Plus, it's a pretty small hole!

I will do all this over the weekend - I get home too late to do it after work. It's already dark. Last time I went in there at night I had to run away - god those bees are angry at night (maybe less so in cool weather but still, it's nice to have sunlight as well!)

So my current plan is:

Insulation
Bottom board
Entrance reducer and mouse guard
Brood box
Candy board / spacer
Second space with entrance hole (the reason I need to do two spacers is because the lip of my lid is over three inches deep... although you know second spacer might be tall enough, so if I it is, I will convert the second spacer into a candy board and just have one spacer)
Inner cover
Pillow (I will replace the one I have now - I have two of them, and as you say, it's probably already absorbed a lot of moisture since I put it on a couple weeks ago)
_>>> I guess I could put another spacer here with styrofoam in it (the bees won't be able to get at it because it'll be on top of the pillow which blocks access through the inner cover). Is that much heat lost through the top?_
Outer cover/lid
Cinder block

I think if I follow that, I will have really good ventilation and moisture absorption, and decent heat retention thanks to the pillow and the wrap. I expect the bottom entrance to be snowed in so I won't get much bottom-to-top ventilation, although I could fairly easily make a point to go and dig it out regularly. But there will be dead bees blocking it in short order (even having turned the entrance reducer upside down, I still have to poke a chopstick in there every day or two to clear some space... definitely looking forward to a top entrance!)

"I'm also debating about whether or not to turn my inner cover over so the hole is downward into the brood chamber" -- I am not sure what you mean by this. My inner cover is the same on both sides, so flipping it over doesn't make any difference?


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## Zoe (Aug 19, 2013)

So I set it up this weekend, omitting the pillow for now. I did not put an inner cover under the space with the entrance hole in it, and I was able to put the rest of my fondant (lasagna-size pan, about 2" thick) in the second spacer. So that is good!

Is it normal that the bees aren't really using the top entrance (yet)? They are keeping the bottom one clear and using that one mostly. Well, they might be using the top one, but I haven't seen any in/out. I'm pretty sure I made it big enough. They have access to it fairly easily but they do have to through a few inches of fondant chunks to get to it.

I guess I am assuming that they will find the hole when they need it?


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

Hi Zoe,

They will figure it out eventually. Even when it is warm, it takes them several days to start using a new entrance.

I also wrapped up my hives this weekened. You can see the pictures here: Fall Inspections: Wrapping hives and installing mouse guards


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

Hey Zoe, in spring make sure you post how your bees did, I'm really interested. Have hives and some equipment, will get bees in spring, and am trying to get as much info on overwintering as possible. I am in Zone 7, but its more like Zone 6, right on the border of the two. I've heard of people that have left a bottom screen on, without any problem, all winter, but that seems like it would really cause a draft. I was thinking of insulating the hive stand, but someone thought that may be overkill. I definitely will wrap my hives, gets 0 degrees at night, and some days no warmer than 20 degrees, and we can get some nasty winds. 
Thanks Much, hope all goes well for you and your bees!


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