# SHB: is this a true statement



## crabbcatjohn (May 5, 2013)

Thats odd, because i was going say the opposite. My Warre's and modified Langs seem to have more SHB. Another reason i'm transforming them into KTBH's. I'm down to one Warre from three.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

In my TBHs, the bees propolize the cracks between the top bars, so there is no access for SHB there. Yes, those hives can have SHB, but I generally don't see them between the top of the bars and the bottom of the lid.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

If you see them, you are seeing a fraction of what is there. I use Freeman bottom boards; but any type of oil pan will probably work. "Check your oil regularly"


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## mdax (Apr 29, 2013)

I've put Beetle Traps on the entrance of my tbh's


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I can guarantee that This is a true statement - In an apiary with dozens of seemingly identical hives some have many hive beetles and some have few. 

The real question is why.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>"KTBHs are likely the best environment for SHB to thrive, as the beetles can usually hide, breed and lays eggs between the top bars and the roof assembly. We have heard of entire apiaries of KTBHs being wiped out by beetles in no time flat because the beetles were able to do this."

Small hive beetle eggs will not hatch unless the humidity is high enough (50%) and the temperature is high enough for long enough. I doubt it would be in my climate on the top bars (outside of the brood nest). We have SHB, but we don't have a problem with them...


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I just went through all of my top bar hives this weekend to assess the new queens and stores. I was amazed at the number of small hive beetles and how each of the different hives were managing them. I have a "bee condo" of sorts which is 2-5 frame nucs side by side with separate colonies with a medium over top of each of them (top entrances). Both have small colonies of bees, as they were summer splits. They have a screened bottom that sits directly on a plywood table. The bees were having a vicious time keeping up with all the SHB. I've never seen so many, and yet, neither of these setups have the diatomaceous earth on a screened bottom board like my other hives do. The amount of SHB's that were "hiding" between the screen and plywood board was unreal. I found a way to elevate the hives with 1/2 inch shims and sprinkled DE on the plywood board so hopefully those beetles will get under control. My only concern is that I have just given another entrance (the bottom screen) for the beetles to enter. These condos are also my only hives that have Lang boxes stacked on top of each other. (I read somewhere that the cracks between boxes allow the beetles to enter freely, so they need to be taped closed. I might do that this weekend if the beetles are still bad.)

In my other full colonies, I was still surprise at the number of beetles that were hiding between the top bars when I pulled the roof off. Although with a screened bottom board, there really isn't any other spot for them to hide in my hives. All of these have an IPM board that I cover with DE dust and when the adult beetle gets chased down there, they die in the dust. 

They seem to be "worse" where the top bars have a lot of propalis in between them, which allows the beetles a "hiddy hole" that the bees can't get to. Also saw quite a few in the comb when I lifted them out, and mostly in comb that was furthest away from the brood nest. Since the brood nest comb was packed with nectar, brood and fresh eggs, I moved some of these empty drawn combs into that area to get them cleaned up (and hopefully filled up).

However, even with all the beetles, I did not see any bars where there was any hatching SHB larvae. (I have experienced that in one nuc this summer when I did a split and it's not a pretty sight)


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

David LaFerney said:


> I can guarantee that This is a true statement - In an apiary with dozens of seemingly identical hives some have many hive beetles and some have few.
> 
> The real question is why.


Makes me wonder if the beetles can smell stress, or if some colonies of bees just smell better to the SHB than others. Like ribs vs. hamburgers.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> Small hive beetle eggs will not hatch unless the humidity is high enough (50%) and the temperature is high enough for long enough.


No problem for that in NC...


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

ruthiesbees said:


> The amount of SHB's that were "hiding" between the screen and plywood board was unreal ... My only concern is that I have just given another entrance (the bottom screen) for the beetles to enter.


It seems like what works for Varroa in this case could make SHB worse. I don't think screened bottoms (open or closed) are a good idea if SHB are around, for the very reason you mentioned. I've thought a lot about this, and how to implement SBB (removable) on a top bar hive which would not put SHB hiding places in proximity to the comb. Can't come up with a decent solution which can be homemade. The tolerances would need to be very close.

I've seen some clever solutions which attempt to trap SHB before they enter the hives (but better be really sure there are no other cracks). And several which bait/trap them inside the hive.



> In my other full colonies, I was still surprised at the number of beetles that were hiding between the top bars when I pulled the roof off. ... They seem to be "worse" where the top bars have a lot of propolis in between them, which allows the beetles a "hiddy hole" that the bees can't get to. Also saw quite a few in the comb when I lifted them out, and mostly in comb that was furthest away from the brood nest. Since the brood nest comb was packed with nectar, brood and fresh eggs, I moved some of these empty drawn combs into that area to get them cleaned up (and hopefully filled up).


Well, that's a bummer. So they do hang out on the top, waiting for a chance to get in, I guess? I read somewhere about keeping a lot of shims around to take up the cracks between top bars and not rely on the propolis. With humidity changes, the bars are going to be moving, though, and the longer the hive (more bars), the worse the movement will be.

I just had an idea, but have to think about it more: Sticky top bars  Or, a sticky surface under the lid. Washable would be nice.



> However, even with all the beetles, I did not see any bars where there was any hatching SHB larvae.


Good, so no hatching on top (which makes sense). But if they -get inside- to the comb, can you then assume they have laid eggs?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

EarlyBird said:


> Good, so no hatching on top (which makes sense). But if they -get inside- to the comb, can you then assume they have laid eggs?


I always have a few SHB on the comb. Most of the time, it's 1 or 2 per comb as I am doing an inspection, no big deal. This time, it was lots and lots. The worker bees were actively chasing them and not letting them rest. Just because the beetles are on the comb doesn't necessarily mean that they have laid their eggs. If the worker bees keep after them, (ie a healthy hive and bee population), you shouldn't have a problem with the beetle slime. BUT, having that many beetles in the hive can mean you can have a problem real quick. I lost that nuc in the summer in just 3 days because the bees couldn't keep up with the beetles. If the worker bees are busy chasing too many beetles, then they can't be doing other work in the hive like feeding the young or ripening the nectar.

As for the screened bottom boards, mine are always closed and there is a small piece on the end that doesn't allow bugs to get up underneath the board. It's only with a wide open screen that I worry about them flying directly in. There is another thread on here that talks about a round PVC entrance and that the beetles have a harder time getting into that. Since my entrance holes are about an inch in diameter, I plan to try that on one or two of my hives next year.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

mdax said:


> I've put Beetle Traps on the entrance of my tbh's
> View attachment 13410


Hi, mdax. Nicely done beetle trap. Would you be willing to share the plans?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

EarlyBird said:


> Makes me wonder if the beetles can smell stress, or if some colonies of bees just smell better to the SHB than others. Like ribs vs. hamburgers.


I suspect that it is something like that. I know this - if you try to reuse comb from a previous SHB deadout those frames will often be covered with adult beetles later. I think perhaps that the residual SHB larva scent repels the bees and attracts the beetles. Just my guess. I trash those frames now whenever that happens.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Makes me wonder if the beetles can smell stress,

I saw a paper once that said they could smell alarm pheromone from miles away if the wind was right...


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Awesome, good thing my bees never emit alarm pheromone! 

I have some in pretty much all my hives. In the top bars they congregate at the end of the hive. Normally I see one or two in those hives. In the Langs I see them when I first take off the outer cover, and they scatter. Usually just one or two. I have a hive with a piece of cotton as an inner cover, when I peel it off there are always beetles under that. The bees are propolizing them in under the fabric. They put an incredible amount of propolis on the cloth.


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