# Swarms won't stay on plastic



## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

I recently tried Mann Lake PF-120s. Established bees seem okay with it, but I have tried hiving two large prime swarms on it and in both cases the bees left. In both cases, I had even put a frame of open brood in the hive but to no avail. Has anyone else had this experience?


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## Sully1882 (Jul 18, 2011)

Both of the swarms I have caught this year are working the exact frames and foundation you are talking about. The one from two weeks ago has all five frames of the NUC drawn out as of yesterday. The swarm from last tuesday, which was huge, has three frames drawn in a week. Have you tried spraying the foundation with sugar water? The frames of open brood should have kept the swarm there. Something else has got to be up with the surrounding. There has to be some factor that is agitating the bees and keeping them from settling in.

Sully


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

I just hived a swarm yesterday on some MannLake rite cell foundation went out to check it today and they seem to have accepted it, bees are coming and going and there's a lot of activity at the front of the hive. However I painted all the frames with an extra layer of bees wax as per the method in Kim Flotums The Backyard Beekeeper book.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I agree with Sully, there is something they dont like about the location or the hive. Of all the "free bees" I got this year I only lost 1 and I think it was because I didnt get the queen (cut out), they absconded the next day and ended up going into another hive I have, how do I know? Because it was a Carnolian hive with low population and the numbers increased substantially, with Italians!!

This year I tried something for fun and it has worked for me. I use a deep Coates style 10 frame hive body with a solid floor and a 1 1/4" entrance hole and foundationless frames and I use this as a swarm capture box (it was intended to be a swarm trap) and after setting the hive on the stand in the bee yard I add a ventilated inner cover. These hives are in direct sun. I dont open the box for two weeks and when I do, they have a large portion of the frames drawn out with brood and food. I then transfer them into a regular hive body with a screened bottom board and let them go about their business! 

I think the biggest thing is not to disturb them or set them in such a place as they get disturbed by animals for atleast a week, let them get established before checking in on them. If you need to see how things are going, watch the entrance, if bees are bringing in pollen and coming and going at a regular rate, its all good!


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Boy, The age old problem of how to make a swarm "stick". I wish I had a perfect way of hiving a swarm. Over the years, I have tried every trick in the book with sucesses and failures with all measures. Some times, bees have other ideas, so don't pin the blame on your tecnique or on the equipment. I had a swarm move into a pile of wax moth ruined junk that was sitting next to several boxes of nice drawn comb. As a side note, here in the Northeast, there was a lot of swarming this spring. Possibly from the early build up and then cool, damp weather that kept them inside for days at a time. Thank goodness it seems to be over.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Hey Jeff, I use the PF-120s and also have hived a few swarms and them over the years and haven't hade any problems. A tip for keeping a swarm around: place a queen excluder between the bottom hive body and the bottom board, until the hive is settled in and running well.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Hey Jeff, I use the PF-120s and also have hived a few swarms and them over the years and haven't hade any problems. A tip for keeping a swarm around: place a queen excluder between the bottom hive body and the bottom board, until the hive is settled in and running well.


Another trick is to screen them in and place in a cool dark room with a devision board feeder for 24 hours. Kind of simulates the conditions experienced by packages before they are hived up.


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## lakebilly (Aug 3, 2009)

I have 4 swarms on pierco's that I coated with wax. It's been two weeks & they are drawing out the frames amazingly fast in second deep. First deep was mostly drawn comb. Swarms were quite large. My bees never liked the pierco's until I coated them. I gave away 100 of the pierco deeps 2 years ago, now I love'm. 

I usally staple a QnX on bottom board as before stated, until I see brood.

I would think that feeding a swarm would keep them. I feed any hives until they are 2 D10's drawn out. good luck.


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

Many thanks to all the replies and good suggestions. When one is faced with a perplexing problem it is very helpful to speak with others who can contribute their experiences (both good and bad)
I should add that both of these swarms were first caught in screened-in boxes (one shaken in, one vacuumed in), then hived either in the evening or the next morning. The equipment, except for the all-plastic frames/foundation, had been in use without problem previously. 
I could tell when I shook the bees into their intended new home that they did not seem to settle right in like a swarm usually does; they seemed tentative and not ready to get comfortable. Although I did not spray the foundation with syrup or add extra wax, I did provide some syrup to one of the swarms prior to introduction. 
I should note that I have colonies drawing out Rite-cell very nicely.
I had thought about using an excluder under the swarms but felt it could be too restrictive to coming and going; next time, I will do use one, as I really don't want to lose any more good-sized swarms.
Thanks again to everyone.


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