# Eight frame mediums and foundation less frames for bait hives?



## TDI (Dec 25, 2014)

Ok, first year starting with bees. Spent a lot of time this winter making a bunch of 8 frame mediums and foundationless frames from scratch. Now that spring is here it's time get serious and try to lure in some swarms.
I would like to set up about 10-20 bait hives this spring.
I just ordered 24 sheets of duragilt foundation through the mail. 
Now I would like advice on what is the best way to set up the bait hives? I have no old brood comb in which I read would be good to use. 
However, I was thinking of putting 2 frames of foundation in the medium and filling the other 6 spaces with foundationless frames along with some drops of lemongrass oil. Does this sound about right? I read that the foundation would be good to help the bees get started making straight comb? Well that and also keeping the hive body level in the tree.
Does this sound like it would work ok? All advice welcome. 
Great forum!


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I am a newbie to but have been researching traps also. Most of what I have read indicates that a 10 frame deep box or larger is the recommended size for traps. Not saying a swarm won't move into an 8 frame medium but it would likely reduce your chances. Would it be possible for you to attach two of the mediums together? That would increase the size a little more, it would still be smaller then the recommended minimum size but would be better then just an 8 frame medium.


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## TDI (Dec 25, 2014)

thx. yes I could attach two boxes together if needed. just didn't want the extra hassle of carrying that much extra weight around the woods and trying to hang by myself if I didn't really have to. Plus I only have a car at the moment so not sure if it would be too tall to fit in the back of my trunk.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have used eight frame mediums with foundationless frames as successful swarm traps. Although bigger might work better, it seemed like too much work. I've also used five frame deep nucs with medium foundationless frames in them with success. It depends on what you have available. But it's hard to beat an old ten frame deep box with a bottom and top nailed on in which I would put medium foundationless frames and one old black brood comb if I have it.


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## PaBill (Apr 4, 2014)

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm planning on using 2 used medium boxes stacked together with medium frames in the upper box.. will it work? we will see..


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

PaBill said:


> Don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm planning on using 2 used medium boxes stacked together with medium frames in the upper box.. will it work? we will see..


Yes, it will work, but you need to check it quite often; A swarm can quickly draw a lot of comb, and with med. frames in the upper box the bees might like to draw on the bottoms of the frames.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

You're better off filling both boxes with drawn frames. I tried what you're doing last year with some of my traps and the ones that were full off drawn comb always won out. I think I only had one of the foundationless bait hives actually attract a swarm. 

They almost always chose the traps that had all drawn comb frames. The theory that you give them a roomy appearance with some foundationless frames and a few drawn frames is really not true. I think that's a human view point, not a scouts point of view. It's much less an attractant than all drawn comb frames from what I've experienced.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> You're better off filling both boxes with drawn frames.


I am in agreement with the vice president. My traps filled with drawn comb catch more than those filled with undrawn Ritecell on the sides and more than my Warres with only a comb or two. The more propolis on the insides of the box the better.


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## PaBill (Apr 4, 2014)

I don't have drawn frames only a few started drawn frames, but the boxes are loaded with propolis on the insides, that I will need to clean some off of the frame rails for the frames to fit nice and the walls of the boxes are coated so I hope that helps with the lack of drawn frames. the boxes really have the hive smell haha....


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I assumed the bees would feel there was not enough room initially when they enter a trap with all drawn comb. Anyone else fill the entire trap with drawn comb? I am curious now.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I think the bees see the room in the empty drawn comb cells.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

What is a better value? A hotel room with no furniture or a hotel room with chairs, beds, cribs, linens, lighting, carpets and food in the fridge? Which would you chose? Bees are no different. They know a good value.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Another 8 frame deep full of comb with Swarm Commander as a lure. Caught today.








Sorry but the neighbor, (not a Beekeeper) was afraid to get too close. I couldn't get to it today.


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## ScienceGirl (Oct 24, 2014)

The benefit to having foundationless frames in a swarm trap is that you would decrease the risk of having foundation destroyed by waxmoths.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

ScienceGirl said:


> The benefit to having foundationless frames in a swarm trap is that you would decrease the risk of having foundation destroyed by waxmoths.


Just lightly spray brood frames with XenTari and let dry. It doesn't detract from the lure of bees and you never have to worry about wax moths.


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