# extra deep frames



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

If you are not looking for a tremendous number, e-mail me at [email protected] I know a local who may make you any size you want. Not sure what he charges, (suppose it depends on length of end bars, quantity, etc). I can find out for you this weekend.

cchoganjr


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Are you looking for extra Deep Frames or Extra-deep frames????


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Tenbears.. I took it he was looking for frames that would have longer end bars. He said he was going narrower and (deep) in a hive he was building. I read that as **deeper** in a hive he is building.

Years ago Dadant, (perhaps others), made (deeper) frames that were, (I believe) 11 1/4 inch. And I have heard of people building deep frames as much as 13 1/2.

odfrank chime in here. He has some hives that has deeper frames.

cchoganjr


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Cleo That is how I took it also. The old xtra deeps are hard to find. But I was not sure if he was looking for someone who had spare drawn frames because he was going to deeps from mediums. I have both but would not part with the xtra deeps as I only have about 10 sets.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Yup, get ahold of Odfrank. You may be looking for "Jumbos". The frames are easier to find than the foundation.

Crazy Roland


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Rossman had the 11 1/4" frames a few years back, Dadant has the 10 5/8" foundation with hooks just a few weeks ago. I use GTB's and GBB's and cut of the hooks. The Rossman end bars are a bit thin for that deep a frame, if you wire real tight they bow in a bit. I have never regretted my foray into deeper frames. The biggest problem is finding an extractor they will fit into if you need to extract them, which I sometime do as I am in a climate of winter honey clogged brood chambers. I made two hives with 17"+ deep brood frames and shut them down. Too much honey stays in the brood frame with no way to extract it. 



http://s156.photobucket.com/user/odfrank/library/Garantuan BroodChambers?sort=3&page=1

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?206044-Gargantuan-Brood-Chamber-size-comparisons/page2&highlight=gargantuan


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

Fergus said:


> Does anyone have a resource for extra deep frames? I am looking at going narrower and deep in a hive I am building. I prefer not to build frames unless I have to.


try www.ickowicz.com , they ship internationally. they have good frames too. you can also buy the foundation from them too.







i uploaded a small diagram of the european dadant frame, it is 30cm high oposed to our 23cm high langstroth frames here in the States. i love working with these frames, and if you find someone that makes the frames and the hives here in the US, i am interested in buying a few myself. 

Radu


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## Steven Kluck (Mar 21, 2015)

Fergus,

Just a thought, if you are looking to build your own hive to use extra-deep frames, but you don't want to build custom frames, maybe you could consider using artificial fully-drawn-comb frames such as "Honey Super Cell" or "PermaComb." You could mechanically link multiple frames into suitable overall dimensions for an extra-deep frame. The nice thing about these frames is that cells cover the whole area, even where top- and bottom- bars would normally be, so when linked, the discontinuity is not excessive. (You can tell, I've been working on an extra-deep-frame hive design as well! I'm trying a horizontal hive with a split-level floor that accepts typical langstroth deeps on one side, but extra-deeps on the other) --Steve


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

What is the advantage of having a langs deep on one side and the
extra deep on the other side? How come not all extra deep in the horizontal hive? What is the height of the extra deep box and its frames?
Also, what do we use to link these frames together to make the extra deep? A metal ring, a zip tie, or a wooden/metal strip?


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## Fergus (Jan 27, 2015)

I appreciate all of the input. I am down to crunch time on the long box that I am making now, I should be finished today. I am going to start an extra deep one similar to the Lazutin with 18 1/2" frames. It should be an interesting project. After this push to get several hives installed this spring, I will have more time and will be able to take the time to make box and frames as well. I'm sure all the beeks in the south are smiling as they are going out this afternoon to do splits and I haven't even gotten one installed yet.


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## Steven Kluck (Mar 21, 2015)

beepro said:


> What is the advantage of having a langs deep on one side and the
> extra deep on the other side? How come not all extra deep in the horizontal hive? What is the height of the extra deep box and its frames?


It's all experimental of course, but the hypothesis is that if a queen lays her bullseye-shaped brood patterns most efficiently on a large, continuous expanse of comb then she is likely to remain on those extra-deeps (which are also closest to the entrance). Workers, who aren't so picky about where they store honey can store it on the regular, easy-to-extract deep frames on the far side. Lazutin, in his book, includes a diagram of Frenchman J. Hurpin's bilateral split-level hive on P. 103. --Steve


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Fergus... The man I mentioned above no longer makes frames. Sorry.

cchoganjr


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## Fergus (Jan 27, 2015)

The bi-level hive looks difficult to manage. The lower level looks hard to get to unless I am missing something.


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## Steven Kluck (Mar 21, 2015)

Fergus said:


> The bi-level hive looks difficult to manage. The lower level looks hard to get to unless I am missing something.


I'm not sure if we are looking at the same hive design. The split-level type of hive that I referenced has the top bars of all frames hanging in a row, at the same elevation. Bottom elevation does change. The not-so-deep frames should be installed over the intermediate level floor, just above the insulating chambers ("coffre isolant"). It's about 9 inches higher than the true bottom of the hive. 

If you Google "Hurpin beehive" and click on images, you should see a diagram labelled "Ruche de Layens a Magasins"


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Steve, can you post some pics for us to get a visual?
It would be nice to see your creativity too.


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## Steven Kluck (Mar 21, 2015)

beepro said:


> Steve, can you post some pics for us to get a visual?


I can try:


http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/skluck/library/Extra%20Deep%20Frames


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Good idea, Steve.
Now I am thinking to use the small cell plastic foundation to slide them in
on the side bars groove. Just run the side bar on the saw to make a small
grove that will fit these plastic foundation. Lastly to assemble on the bottom bar.
Isn't it better than to tie them together?


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## Fergus (Jan 27, 2015)

This is the one I saw and am questioning the management of. To me it looks difficult.


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## Steven Kluck (Mar 21, 2015)

Fergus said:


> This is the one I saw and am questioning the management of. To me it looks difficult.


Yes I remember seeing that one. To me, having top bars on two levels seems to defeat the purpose of a horizontal hive. --Steve


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## Steven Kluck (Mar 21, 2015)

beepro said:


> Now I am thinking to use the small cell plastic foundation to slide them in
> on the side bars groove. Just run the side bar on the saw to make a small
> grove that will fit these plastic foundation. Lastly to assemble on the bottom bar.


So, you're thinking about extra long side bars with grooves to hold multiple pieces of sturdy plastic foundation in good alignment, rather than to rely upon such things as typical sidebar support pins. It seems that it would result in a good, sturdy big frame. The side grooves could be made thin to prevent the foundation pieces from trying to overlap each other. Good idea. --Steve


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## David Heaf (Dec 7, 2007)

Fergus said:


> Does anyone have a resource for extra deep frames? I am looking at going narrower and deep in a hive I am building.


Matt Somerville in the UK makes/sells frames that fit the Einraumbeute. They are basically Dadant format rotated 90 degrees. Here is his web page:

http://beekindhives.uk/the-modified-golden-hive/

on which there is a contact link. 

I bought a set of 22 from him and they are well made, but you need to install your own spacers:

http://www.dheaf.plus.com/framebeekeeping/modified_einraumbeute.htm .


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

If you do make the frames, try making the side bars and the bottom bar thicker. These frames will be *HEAVY*. Thicker wood makes a larger, stronger glue joint and better stapling, both quite beneficial when extracting.

A suggestion if you get to the point of having the jumbo frames, but no foundation...Use standard Langstroth frame foundation vertically in the frame, let the bees fill in the rest. Lauri Miller does this (in standard frames), and varroa management is as simple as cutting out the drone comb with a knife, and putting it in the solar wax melter. Presto! NO MITES! 

As for an extractor, just adapt the design for the "Yankee Extractor" in the "Build It Yourself" section here on Beesource to fit the taller frames. Try to set it up for radial, and start out spinning them *V E R Y.......S L O W L Y*, as large, heavy honey frames will break very easily if spun too fast. Don't extract when it's too hot in the honey room. Let the air conditioner do it's thing first, and let the combs come down to a temperature where they are stronger. Did I say go slow? Don't - go even slower instead.


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