# Hopguard against varroa and other mites - your experience is requested?



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I am an organic gardener. I keep fish mainly organically, very few meds, no additives (except in my reef tank and they are necessary there) I cannot bring myself to order a product I have to wear a breathing mask to use, so that knocks out mite away strips. Apiguard sounds too much like an insecticide, bees are insects, and I've read threads that suggested the queen takes off after treatment. I'm having enough trouble, have had enough trouble.

I found 5 mites on my sticky after my last powdered sugar treatment, which is pretty low. But the bees are low on provisions, I will be feeding, and that is not the same nutrition as real honey and real pollen. So I would like to take them into winter without the mites. I want the BEST treatment to be effective and not harm my bees. 
Dadant of course says Hopguard doesn't make a difference, but they don't sell it either.

So I'm looking for a few product reviews, and I'll bet I'm not the only one wondering. Does it work, how were the bees afterward?

Gypsi


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Gypsi, I was seeing deformed wings in my hive and it is late in the year so I had to pull out the big guns and ordered the MAQS off of Dadant Supply, I am not to concerned about loosing my queen. From what I was reading in the threads it sounded like some of the beekeepers might not have followed the instructions as closely as they should have, or might have misinterpreted them. My bees could have been facing CCD this winter if I don't do something quick, and MAQS sounds like the fast and natural way to go. It will be this weekend before I can get you any feedback on how it went. I hope your bees do well.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Gypsi said:


> Apiguard sounds too much like an insecticide, bees are insects


I haven't used hopguard but can tell you that all of the inhive pesticides are insecticides. I think the issue is can they be toxic to mites and have an acceptable toxicity to bees. I am usually cautious about using the newest, 'latest-greatest' compound. I'm choosing to wait until next season to try hopguard. I'd rather someone else determine in their hives if it lives up to the distributor's claims.
ps I'm using Apiguard and AplifeVar this season.....so far without any significant problems.
Good luck.


----------



## khaas15 (Feb 17, 2010)

I used MAQS and was impressed with the mite drop. Man, it really did a number on the mites. The hives came through strong with no loss of queens. I would use the product again.


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I will check my sticky in the morning and decide whether to treat. I think MAQS is winning.


----------



## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Hopguard works well on the mites that are on the adult bees. The working life of the strips appears to be short, just a few days, but the nockdown numbers are good. The best time to use Hopguard is when the colony has little sealed brood. This is usually in the early spring or fall. If you have a colony that you make queenless so that there is no brood, and then you treat, you will kill most of the mites in the colony.


----------



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Problem with waiting until there is little capped brood, more damage might and will occur. If the loads are high, get er done now. The problem with formic applications, thymol, and i am not sure on the hop guard, but the problem is they are very temperature dependant. IF the mite loads are high and the temps drop below threshold, the treatment will not work. Might get some, but not enough of a knock back to save the hive from further damage.
When mite loads are above 4% brood damage occurs. This can and WILL affect hive mortality in the late winter and early spring. Damaged bees will not survive the winter. A mite drop of 18 per day will be at the 3% mark. The below link is a good read on varroa.
If you are above the threshold and live in a colder climate, a harsher treatment might be needed. Winters are hard on bees struggling with varroa.
Remember, it only takes three weeks for the numbers to double. The problem with that is, when you test, you don't know if you have three weeks before they double or if when you tested you were in the home stretch of those three weeks and the doubling will occur any day. Clear as mud?
To clarify what i mean...
If you test today and your test brings a result of 2%, do you still have the three weeks before it jumps to 4%? Or was your test done near the end of the three week cycle, and if you go back and test in a week, will they be at 4%...still clear as mud?

Economic Treshold for Varroa


----------



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

as to the point that apiguard sounds like a pesticide and bees are insects...
the level of pesticide in the product is sufficient, if applied properly to get in the range of 70-80% of the mites. However, the pesticide is low enough to do none to minimal damage to bees. I think, and this is just a guess, but because of the size between mites and bees.
Here is the kicker. And this is the reason harsher chemicals need to be applied as directed...with the proper amount of product. Since 80% of the mites died, leaving 20% alive, there is a higher risk to mite reisistance to the harsh chemical used. This is why the directions are so important. Putting in less will leave more live mites behind speeding up the resistance and shortening the life span of the chemical.
The nice thing about formic and the softer chemicals is, they get more percentage of the mites, and there is less risk to resistance. The draw back is most softer chemicals are very temperature dependant so the lower the temps, more mites left in the hive.
Softer chemicals like formic have another draw back. That is, formic works best on lower mite loads. I do not know about thymol or hop guard, but i assume since they work in the same manner this would be true....assumptions though.
When mite loads are low, a beekeeper has more options. When they start to climb, the options start to drop off.

Almost Finally, is good to get the mites down hard in the spring. Good for the bees, good for the crop and good for winter. Then in the fall, with lower counts, only a clean up is needed. It make the job formic has to do easier. 
Finally, when the mites get knocked back hard in the spring, with say a harsher chemical, it provides a longer window of protection. The treatments are usually 45 days in duration, so the hive is protected like a shield during those 45 days. It is that much longer then before the mites can bounce back. Before you know it, you are into fall prep with lower mite loads and more options


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Thank you all. I still didn't get to check my sticky - will go get it in a few minutes. Lots of work to do now that weather is breaking. I knocked down mites with powdered sugar when it was 100 degrees out, really haven't seen many since the 3rd treatment. (the robbers knocked out part of my bee population in between too, so fewer bees, fewer mites). The gal I got the hive from just fed hbh, didn't medicate for anything. I did see the JUMP in mite counts, from around 30, to around 100, which prompted the last sugar treatment, then they dropped down to less than 5. I haven't had time to check more than weekly in a couple of weeks. Will check tonight, clean the board, and check tomorrow night, somehow. 

Thanks again,
Gypsi


----------



## larrymn (Sep 3, 2011)

who sells hop guard?


----------



## Capricorn (Apr 20, 2009)

Mann Lake sells hop guard. I just put in an order the other day. 

If it only helps with mites on adult bees, then following up with a second treatment 3 weeks later might be a good idea? I purchased a treatment because I noticed population dwindling on 1 of my hives. When I looked at the brood it was a shotgun pattern. So did a mite drop and found I'm dropping quite a bit of mites. Better treat it. But what about my other hives? Should I just treat them all as part of my winter prep? Or should I do mite drops on all my hives with SBBs? What about Nuc's and hives with solid bottoms?


----------



## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We put 3 hopguard treatments on 1 week apart and dropped a bunch of mites. We did not get all of them. We had one scare with it. We treated 15 hives, 10 full sized production hives and 5 nucs. In two of the big hives and one nuc we apparently lost the queens. A week after treatment we had capped queen cells, and apparently missing queens. Two weeks after the first treatment and a week after the second treatment the queen cells had been torn down and the old queens were laying again.
Dave


----------



## ginn68 (Apr 14, 2010)

Dave,

How many strips did you place per five frames? Have all the queens bounced back? Lastly, what do your mite counts look like before and after? 

Thanks!


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I found 5 mites on my sticky after my last powdered sugar treatment, which is pretty low.

After a powdered sugar treatment 200 would be very low. Without the powdered sugar, just natural drop, 50 in 24 hours would be low. 5 on the sticky board AFTER powdered sugar is nothing.


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Guess I don't need to treat. Thank you.
Gypsi


----------



## ginn68 (Apr 14, 2010)

Mike,

So is a mite count of 200 is ok? In the past my threshold was 30 in 24 hrs. My mites counts this year are off the charts. One hive is up to 306. I believe the reason is a migratory yard moved in down the road. The hive with 306 has numerous deformed wings on workers and they are trying super the queen.


What is your powder sugar process?


----------



## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We used 2 strips/ deep box. The queens have recovered andare laing well. I have not done mite counts since the treatment. The counts before treating were from capped drone. They ranged from 17-0 per 100 pupae.
Dave


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I know you were asking Mike, but if you have a crisis, I've powdered sugared before.

The reason 200 is low after powdered sugar is that the sugar makes the bees clean everything up, themselves, empty comb cells, and the mites land in the sugar pile in the floor, or thru the sbb on the sticky. So after sugar it is more than an average day's drop. 

I think you are supposed to gently sift the sugar down onto the bees while they are on the frames.
I lacked a sifter and had a cooking paint brush, so I lifted each frame out and painted powdered sugar on bees, some did get into open brood or open honey (but not much), but I made snowy bees, put them all back in their hive working steadily across, and closed it up.

I did it 3 times. And my mite count is now zip. I'm sure they'll be back next year. And if I catch these robbers and tame them, I'll probably have to treat with something. Some of those bees are ornery.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So is a mite count of 200 is ok? 

I'm talking about a mite drop from powdered sugar, not a natural 24 hour drop from nothing.

>In the past my threshold was 30 in 24 hrs. 

I'd say 50 natural drop (not using anything to treat, including not using powdered sugar) in 24 hours in the fall is not bad at all.

>My mites counts this year are off the charts. One hive is up to 306. I believe the reason is a migratory yard moved in down the road. The hive with 306 has numerous deformed wings on workers and they are trying super the queen.

Probably is the migratory yard. Bees drift a lot, rob a lot and bump into each other when foraging.


----------



## arcowandbeegirl (Oct 11, 2010)

I have used the hop guard strips on three different hives. The first time on 7-15-11 the mite count was 62 for a three day count. I applied the strips and the next time the mite count was done on 8-2-11 it was 6 for a 2 day mite count. While the egg laying did slow, she did not stop. I am pleased with the product. Also the temps during this application were in the high 90's and 100's. 
The second time I used the hopguard strips was in September. I had a mite count on those hives of 70 for a 3 day count and 108 for a 3 day count. I am going to do another count later this week. But, I can tell that one of the hives has really taken off and done better since I treated. Will post those counts later. I didnt see the queen slow or quit laying on the treatment of the last two hives. It was somewhat cooler weather by then also. Temps in the high 80's and low 90's.
These are all natural mite drop counts done with sticky boards.


----------



## ginn68 (Apr 14, 2010)

Michael Bush,

I did a trial on one of my higher hives today. I powdered sugered the brood frames today and added some syrup with eo's. I will give it a day or two and repeat the 24 hr drop measurement.


----------



## arcowandbeegirl (Oct 11, 2010)

This is an update on my mite counts and treatment with hopguard strips. 

The original hive 
7-15-11 3 day mite count of 62. Treated with hopguard strips on 7-22-11 2 per brood box. 
8-2-11 2 day mite count of 6. 9-6-11 3 day mite count of 37.
10-5-11 2 day mite count of 179

Swarm hive
6-30-11 3 day mite count of 10, 8-2-11 2 day mite count of 12, 9-6-11 3 day mite count of 
70. 9-8-11 treated with hop guard strips 2 per brood box. 10-5-11 2 day mite count of 103

Russell hive
9-6-11 3 day mite count of 108
9-8-11 hopguard strips applied 2 strips per brood box. 10-5-11 2 day mite count of 49

All counts done with sticky boards, natural drop


----------



## ginn68 (Apr 14, 2010)

Interesting. Do you plan to retreat? The rebound is high.


----------



## arcowandbeegirl (Oct 11, 2010)

Yes, early on, the mite count didnt build up as fast, but the last few times, it surely did. I am going to retreat, but am undecided what to use. I had read another post about applying the hopguard strips again a week later. I would like to use something else, but dont know what to use. I dont have to worry about honey supers, because I have removed them. I am concerned though about the hive with the highest mite count (179), that I might need to take action quick for them. What do you other beekeepers think?


----------



## ginn68 (Apr 14, 2010)

Is everyone else seeing the lack of sustainable mite reduction after hopeguard treatments? It almost seems it doesn't have the knock out power.


----------



## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

You guys are grading by natural drop counts, which can be very misleading... try an ether roll to get a more accurate accounting... 

Keep in mind that the drop rate should rise immediately, then get lower, then rise again ass each wave of brood emerges exposing the mites to the treatment...

You may be seeing something more like the majority of the mites that were alive, instead of just a percentage of them... an ether roll will let you know.


----------



## arcowandbeegirl (Oct 11, 2010)

Yes, I bet you are correct R Russell. Just a little more info. I talked to Mann Lake about the Hopguard strips today. It says you can use them 3 times. They said for maximum efficiency a person could treat then 7-10 days later, reapply (2 strips per brood box), then in 7-10 days later reapply. They say that would get the emerging brood.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

arcowandbeegirl said:


> It says you can use them 3 times. They said for maximum efficiency a person could treat then 7-10 days later, reapply (2 strips per brood box), then in 7-10 days later reapply.


Which translates into 6 strips and three visits for a full treatment regimen. They're going to have to have a pretty steep quantity discount......and I don't see one listed in their online catalog.


----------



## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I like the hopguard, it is easy to apply. It does work well, but you have to do the progressive weekly treatment for 3 weeks in a row or the strips may dry up and you miss a brood cycle. This means 4 strips per double deep hive per week. It may be pricey for some. For me the ease of use and no nasty smell, plus it is a food grade product.


----------



## cklspencer (Jun 21, 2010)

I felt it worked well for its design. Hopsguard is not going to kill the mites under your capped brood. It will only kills the one on the surface. Hopsguard works great when your hive is broodless. I did some summer treatment to monitor the effects and the rebond. It was a good way to knock them back durning the summer but was not effective enough to insure it would not have an effect on winter brood. I did go back later and applied some late season treatments. By late season I mean later than when we would apply our typical treatment in preperation for winter. The results were awesome. Lack of brood ment that all mites were exposed to the treatment. temps were in the low 60's during the day and in the 40's at night. Although a proper treatment should be done before the raising of winter brood I did find this product to be highly effetive for the person who waits until the last min. or for a quick treatment during a flow.


----------



## Me Beeing Me (May 27, 2011)

I had a mite drop of about 100 after a 48 hour period (natural drop). Using the University of Manitoba's economic threshold (http://www.capabees.com/main/files/pdf/varroathreshold.pdf), if I take this count and divide by the number of bees I have in the hive, I get .0050%. The economic threshold for fall is 10%. Anything greater than, you should treat. If it is smaller, no treatment is necessary. 

So initially I was concerned and even ordered the Mite Away strips. But after seeing this report and the economic thresholds, I will just sit tight. 

Does anybody disagree with this research based on their past experiences? The data goes back 6 years and I know a lot of people on this site have been beeks for decades. Experience may trump scientific studies.....


----------



## joecali (Sep 3, 2010)

Thanks for the link to the study. At first glance it seems very well done. My question to you is your percent infected. One of the charts list 33-43 mites in a 48hr period as correlating to about a 6% rate by the alcohol method from which they determined their treatment threshold. So it would seem your level is something more than 6% but I would guess less than 10%. My comment is that this is a natural system and although I understand the utility of a treat don't treat threshold I doubt it is that black and white in a natural system so I would take issue with the < 10% don't treat and >10% must treat. Then there is the questions of tracheal mites. They mention that if you have both you should treat. Have you checked for them? I just don't want you to have a false sense of security without full information. In the interest of full disclosure my personal bias is to lean towards treatment when there is doubt. I know others on this forum present a well reasoned case for having the opposite opinion. FWIW, Joe


----------



## Me Beeing Me (May 27, 2011)

Thanks, Joe.

I don't know how to check for tracheal mites


----------



## joecali (Sep 3, 2010)

Me Beeing Me,

It is not easy. A university extension service may be the easiest place to start. There are some good web resources that you can do a search for.(I would start here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv4zzGv_x_Q and then follow their links). In short it involves dissecting the bee and looking in the trachea. Best if you have access to a dissecting microscope. If you do this video will talk you through it! Joe


----------



## jbeard (Jul 18, 2011)

Gypsi said:


> I am an organic gardener. I keep fish mainly organically, very few meds, no additives (except in my reef tank and they are necessary there) I cannot bring myself to order a product I have to wear a breathing mask to use, so that knocks out mite away strips. Apiguard sounds too much like an insecticide, bees are insects, and I've read threads that suggested the queen takes off after treatment. I'm having enough trouble, have had enough trouble.
> 
> I found 5 mites on my sticky after my last powdered sugar treatment, which is pretty low. But the bees are low on provisions, I will be feeding, and that is not the same nutrition as real honey and real pollen. So I would like to take them into winter without the mites. I want the BEST treatment to be effective and not harm my bees.
> Dadant of course says Hopguard doesn't make a difference, but they don't sell it either.
> ...


It worked great on the hive I treated. I was getting a natural drop of over 300 mites a day on a stickyboard before treatment. Over 3000 mites dropped the first day after treatment! I waited 10 days and treated again and got another large drop. Within another week, I was only getting a natural drop of 4 or 5 mites a day. The bees didn't seem to mind the treatment at all. This was last October. The hive was split into 3 this spring and all are doing great.


----------



## kjohn (Aug 5, 2014)

I used hop guard II several days ago. The mite count on a sticky board under a screened bottom board was over 100 for a 24 hour count before using hop guard II. After the treatment the mite count for a 24 hour period was down to only 3. I used mite away quick strips and the mite count did not go down and it kill several hundred bees. The bees did not show any reaction to hop guard II. At this point I believe in the hop guard II


----------



## labradorfarms (Dec 11, 2013)

Whats the difference in hop guard and hop guard 2???????


----------

