# disease : Larvae caps are removed after 2 weeks !!



## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

hello,
i have some kind of diseases that the caps are removed after 2 weeks , so the the Immature bee dies 
more information :
i have this Phenomenon in 11 out of 14 box ,varies in strength , they have enough amount of pollen and honey
water source is clean and near to the apiary 
pictures :

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link to download the images:
https://www.mediafire.com/?3wk6huqih8sduu7


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

I think it is hygienic behavior removing mite infested larvae. Some of the larvae are partially eaten. In the last picture near right center you can see patches of white material on the top of the cell. This is likely mite frass. There are other open cells that look like frass too, but not as clearly. I think you have a mite problem.


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## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

Dave Burrup said:


> I think it is hygienic behavior removing mite infested larvae. Some of the larvae are partially eaten. In the last picture near right center you can see patches of white material on the top of the cell. This is likely mite frass. There are other open cells that look like frass too, but not as clearly. I think you have a mite problem.


hi,
can you draw circle on the thing you mentioned, and i have varroa strips on some of those hives , do you think mites is the only reason ?


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

I have no idea how I would draw a circle on your picture. There are 5 uncapped larvae next to each other with an empty cell between them the frass is in the empty cell. What kind of mite strips, and when did you put them on. MAQS are the only kind that can kill mites under the caps. There are other cells that look like white stuff in the bottom of the cell. That is reflected light from the bottom of the polished cells.


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## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

hi,
those are the strips , i use them and they are effective
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191657491617?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
i put them 2 weeks ago , not in all the hives, but the hives that there is no strips in them have the same thing


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

MAQS are formic acid. Your link is for fumethrin. Fumethrin is a pyrethroid. They will not kill mites under the caps. Only phoretic mites. Once the brood all emerges you will have another crop of mites.


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## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

Dave Burrup said:


> MAQS are formic acid. Your link is for fumethrin. Fumethrin is a pyrethroid. They will not kill mites under the caps. Only phoretic mites. Once the brood all emerges you will have another crop of mites.


as do you know where i can buy it ?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Darkingdoom, Dave is quite correct your problem is varroa mites. 

What you are seeing is what bees do to try to remove the mite infestation.

Your strips have been in 2 weeks, a brood cycle is 3 weeks. So it is too soon for the strips to have wiped out the mites.

Also, a lot of mites are immune to the type of miticide claimed in the strips you are using, plus the strips in your link are a cheap Chinese knock off of the proper product, there is no way I would use them, could be anything.

So here is the bottom line. 
1. Your bees have a mite problem
2.You should do something about it
3. The products I would recommend to you in order of preference are Apivar strips, MAQS, Oxalic acid.


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## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> Darkingdoom, Dave is quite correct your problem is varroa mites.
> 
> What you are seeing is what bees do to try to remove the mite infestation.
> 
> ...


hi,
ok , i will change the type of treatment
thx all


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

From the advert you linked -

"quick-acting and eradicate mites survival foundation.The strips should remain in the hive for 35 days, but not more than 6 weeks.Small dose and residual less，the real green environmental protection.By the ministry of agriculture NY/T5138-2002 designated as a pollution-free food--allows using in bee feeding".

Unfortunately this is balldedash. The miticide they claim is in the strips is not residual less, is not the real green environmental protection, and is not designated as a pollution free food.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

darkingdoom - Let us know what you try and how it goes. 

Thanks everyone for the guidance - Got a few hives doing similar to that as well.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Just one thing for those with the same thing. Similar can be caused by wax moths tunnelling just under the brood caps. The way to tell the difference is that if it is caused by wax moths the uncapped cells will be in a line all joined together. If they are scattered as per the pics, it is not wax moths and varroa is the likely culprit.

Darkingdoom must be congratulated on the good quality pics he has posted which has allowed for easy diagnosis.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

How does one post large pics like that I have always wondered Oldtimer. Any time I try and upload pics, it just attaches the thumbnails that you can click on for the "little bit larger view"...:scratch:. G


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If you upload direct I think they display as thumbnails. What I do is have a free account with Photobucket and upload the pics to that. Then to show a pic on Beesource I put a link in the post to the pic in photobucket, and it displays in the post as a picture.

just one thing, there is a size restriction Barry wants people to adhere to, I suspect the pics in this thread are over that size, best to downsize the image to the correct size before adding to the post.


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## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

marshmasterpat said:


> darkingdoom - Let us know what you try and how it goes.
> 
> Thanks everyone for the guidance - Got a few hives doing similar to that as well.


hi , i will bring new treatment and check the results



Oldtimer said:


> Just one thing for those with the same thing. Similar can be caused by wax moths tunnelling just under the brood caps. The way to tell the difference is that if it is caused by wax moths the uncapped cells will be in a line all joined together. If they are scattered as per the pics, it is not wax moths and varroa is the likely culprit.
> 
> Darkingdoom must be congratulated on the good quality pics he has posted which has allowed for easy diagnosis.






biggraham610 said:


> How does one post large pics like that I have always wondered Oldtimer. Any time I try and upload pics, it just attaches the thumbnails that you can click on for the "little bit larger view"...:scratch:. G


i copied the img url and used


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

These are like textbook example pictures of "Parasitic Mite Syndrome."


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I agree, David. And when they can't keep up with the chewing, it starts to look like EFB without the smell.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Barry said:


> I agree, David. And when they can't keep up with the chewing, it starts to look like EFB without the smell.


Agreed Barry,Agreed David. I have seen the exact same scenario in package hives when I started, and EFB was my concern. Until I learned more about mites and PMS. G


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## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

#UPDATE:
throw my inspection today , i saw a worm trying to get out from one of the cells , it was making hole and was trying to make it larger in order to get out , when i tried to make it larger , the worm fell off and i lost it, but it was worm maybe wax worm


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

That would likely be a wax moth. Looking at your pics again I'm slightly torn. To some extent the affected cells are together as they would be if the damage was caused by a wax moth. But wax moths do not normally result in the death of the larvae or in them being chewed, or the fully developed but slightly small looking uncapped pupae.

The definitive way to tell is pick some caps off between affected larvae and see if a silk tunnel can be found or a wax moth larva itself.

But without being able to look at the actual real comb, to me it looks more like varroa than wax moth damage, but problem with working off pics it is not always possible to get every bit of info and make the totally correct choice.


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## darkingdoom (Sep 28, 2014)

i pulled out one of the larave and this what came out , other were normal(dead on week 2 ) and no tunnels where found


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