# AHB in Europe



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Primarily because a good scientist brought them to South America intentionally then unintentionally let them escape. There is a continuous landmass between SA and here. They have ended up on most of the Caribbean islands by passive immigration however, hitching rides on ships. One would assume that a trans-oceanic voyage is too long and they starve.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

hopefully, a winter where it occasionally gets cold, will be "to long a passage" and will stop them from coming here

Dave


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

I agree. I hope we never have that to deal with.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Good question, I've wondered the same thing myself. I can't explain it, but I've got some opinions for what they're worth.

A.M. Scutellata are native to southern and eastern Africa and it's a big continent with a wide range of climate and environment. They prefer, or at least are better adapted to, tropical and subtropical climates with discrete wet and dry seasons. If you look at how they dispersed when they got to this country, they headed west and northwest into Arizona, Utah, and Southern California- heading for the higher, drier elevations, not east into the gulf states which are anything but high and dry. They seem to be moving east slowly. Their appearance in Florida would appear to be a separate invasion from the migration up through Central America, probably by boat.

I can see why getting out of Africa on their own initiative hasn't happened. Africa offers enough geographic challenges to keep them from migrating out of their native area. The Sahara desert is a formidable obstacle in their expansion out of Africa. In deed, with the exception of a small strip adjacent to the Mediterranean ocean, the entire northern 1/3 of the continent is true desert from the Atlantic ocean on the west to the Red Sea on the east. This huge area is not particularly hospitable to man or beast- or bees.

Why haven't caught a ride to Europe on boats? Trip too far? I don't know.

More thought required!


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Ron Young said:


> I agree. I hope we never have that to deal with.


Tony Jadczak, Maine State Bee Inspector, if I remember rightly reported finding 5 or 6 hives in Maine last year with a "high probability" of being africanized based on FABIS (Fast Africanized Bee Identification System or something like that). They were all migratory hives brought in from out of state and were selected for testing due to their defensiveness. Their drones spent time flying around Maine while they were here trying hard to spread their genes. Did they succeed?


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## False Positive (Oct 8, 2006)

*AHB in Europe?*

I believe the reason you don't see AHB in other places is because they aren't a naturally occuring race of honey bee. They're a laboratory created race (species?) created by mixing an African bee and a European honeybee. So, the only place they are feral is in the Americas, where they were originally released. To show up in Europe, they would have to cross the Atlantic.


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

*Confused.*



False Positive said:


> I believe the reason you don't see AHB in other places is because they aren't a naturally occuring race of honey bee. They're a laboratory created race (species?) created by mixing an African bee and a European honeybee. So, the only place they are feral is in the Americas, where they were originally released. To show up in Europe, they would have to cross the Atlantic.


I thought that AHB was one of the 24 sub-species of Apis Malifera???? And that the aggression was due to adaptations made for the environment in which they were moved into? Are all honey bees not tracable back to Europe? I am curious to know if I mis-understood the information in the beginners class.

I was also under the understanding that right now, the AHB has not adapted to the cold winters, and will not survive overwintering. Although migratory beekeeping may introduce them into certain areas, the winters will keep them from becoming colonized? I really do not know. It would seem to me that there is a bit of logic to that. However, genetics into established colonies would seem likely! 

Who knows. Time will tell I guess. If they make it into my area, that will probably be about the time I get out of beekeeping!


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Ron Young said:


> I thought that AHB was one of the 24 sub-species of Apis Malifera???? And that the aggression was due to adaptations made for the environment in which they were moved into? Are all honey bees not tracable back to Europe? I am curious to know if I mis-understood the information in the beginners class.
> 
> AHB is derived from a mix of African strains (scutella) with a little bit of European genetics. The 'races' of bees are hard to number precisely. Africa, west Asia, and the Indian subcontinent have had their own varieties for millenia, without the African strains taking over. Maybe it is just humans moving them around, but the Straits of Gibralter and Turkey don't seem like much of an obstacle to a species that has gotten around the Himalayas.


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## Riki (Jan 31, 2007)

<<They're a laboratory created race (species?) created by mixing an African bee and a European honeybee. >> (False Positive)

They're not. In 1956, prof. Kerr brought to Brazil 170 queens of scutellata bees, from that, only 49 were accepted and an year later, 26 of them swarmed; the AHB is a result of that bees naturally crossed with mix of european bees existing at that time.

<<I was also under the understanding that right now, the AHB has not adapted to the cold winters, and will not survive overwintering.>> (Ron Young)

I think you're probably right! I read a paper about africanization in South America, in which the author(s) found that about parallel 35, the african genes are not so prevalent, and beyond parallel 40, there are very few african genes, if any. My guess is that any place with a cold winter (with snow and without flowers) will kill them back anytime they show up. I think the queen will never stop laying and the hive will starve to death. I must say that I don't have any experience about overwintering since I live in the tropics (21° south).


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I'm certain that you must have many years of experience with AHB's. My understanding is that they act very much like the scuts of Africa, even if they did come from a relatively small number of queens. Genetically, they are very similar to pure scuts based on mitochondrial DNA


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## Riki (Jan 31, 2007)

I can't say anything about their behavior in Africa, cause I've never been there. There has been a discussion in a beekeeping list here in Brazil about DNA (I'm not a geneticist); some people say that there's a difference when you look for mitochondrial DNA or for nuclear DNA (they could tell different stories about the same bee!?); from what I've read, it makes sense to me, but I won't neither be able to translate it into english (the paper was written in portuguese), nor to explain what I understood from that (not sure that I did!!).
What I can tell from their behavior is that it varies a lot from a colony to another, and most of them are workable. I must say that I never work a full colony without a jacket with a veil and ruber gloves (dish washing ones); the suit is nylon made and it's very hot inside it! I used to wear a cotton suit before, and after being in the yard, I could count 200 + stingers "buried" in my clothes (yes, a significant part of them reached my skin!). The nylon ones don't have a grip for the bees to sting me and now I rarely get stung.
I think the defensiveness could greatly be bred out, but requeening is not a general practice around here, and AI is too much expensive for us, so it's a slow process...I'm just starting to rear my own queens.
Take a look at this: http://beeman.se/za/za-1-nf.htm.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>they could tell different stories about the same bee!?)

Mitochondrial DNA all comes from the mother. Nuclear DNA comes half from the mother and half from the father (in a worker or a queen).


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## Riki (Jan 31, 2007)

I thought that even in a drone there would be some difference, but I just re read the text and couldn't understand why. By the way, the southern limit to the african genes is parallel 35 S (not 40 as I said before).


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## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

Riki,

Your link about Barry Seargent was quite intersting. You wouldn't happen to know where I could find more information about him?


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## Riki (Jan 31, 2007)

I'd google "Barry Sergeant", maybe you could ask Per-Olof Gustafsson (the owner of that website).


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