# Business License....



## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

http://beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213383&highlight=business+license


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## randydrivesabus (Apr 27, 2006)

I'm not sure what a business license is.....and I'm a CPA. Is it a local requirement to operate a business where you live? a state requirement?
you are required to report any income on your taxes and i assume that you do so. the $4000 you gross should be reported on sched C or F (i use F to report all of my farming activities). You can then deduct expenses so that you don't pay income tax and SE tax on your gross income but your net income.
Do you mean a license as it applies to sales tax? Here in VA there is a sales tax on food, which includes honey. Any retail sales of honey require that you collect sales tax and then periodically pay it over to the state. But I don't know what the law is about this where you live.
You need to consult a local CPA or lawyer....not to do your taxes (although that would probably be to your benefit) but to find out what business registration(s) you need to do. Expect to pay $100 in fee for about an hour of consultation. The fee is tax deductable for your business.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

randy: But dont you need a business license and a DBA to file using Sched c or f? 

The big this is that I do not want to pay any taxes in at all. I do not want this to cost us any money but the very miniuim just to cover our ***.


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## randydrivesabus (Apr 27, 2006)

you don't need a business license for federal income tax purposes. but you do need to report all your income on your tax return.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

This probably varies by state. In my state, you can operate as a sole proprietor, using your own name without any kind of license. If you sell something where sales tax applies, you need a state tax id number. 

Check your office of the Secretary of State for business issues.

www.secstate.wa.gov/

Also, some cities and townships require business licenses. You would have to contact your local govt. for information.


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## Ken&Andria (May 2, 2007)

"In Washington, there is no tax on honey. So why get a business license?"

Because you live in Washington State, home of the most wonderful "B&O" tax! (Buisness and Occupation tax). This is a tax you pay in addition to sales tax. I don't know if you would be subject to this tax or not, but you'd better find out before the government does!

http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Pubs/ExciseTax/BO_PubUtil_LitterTax/BOfs.pdf

http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Pubs/BusReg/Belowmin.pdf


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## danno1800 (Mar 13, 2004)

*here's what I said in the other thread*

A business license is usually issued by the State & also the locality [city/county] where you do business. Most States have an exemption for Agricultural Businesses, so be sure to ask. In my State [West Virginia] and City [Huntington], there is no charge for the State or City licenses, BUT YOU STILL NEED TO HAVE ONE. 
It is important to do business right. We need to have one to sell at the local farmer's market. We are also exempt from having to collect tax on an agricultural product we produced.
As for the IRS & State income taxes, you must report all income whether you are a hobby or a business. The difference is, if you are a business, you can deduct your expenses. 
I suggest getting a copy of Quickbooks Pro & keeping records of income & expenses. Also you should have a separate account for the honey business. Most banks will give you a 'no fee' checking account under your regular personal account if you ask them.
The IRS wants to see that you are running it 'like a business' with an intent to make a profit. As an earlier post indicated, you have 5 years to demonstrate this. A profit in 3 of the 5 years gives you the presumption that it is a business, not a hobby. As that post indicated, perhaps you could lump your big purchases together in a single year. That would leave you a profit in the next couple of years.
Good luck! -Danno


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Ok, So I should obtain a busines license. I need to talk with an accountant... some people say a business lawyer....

Sound right?


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

So where do I start? Where do I need to look to do research in my state?


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## randydrivesabus (Apr 27, 2006)

http://dor.wa.gov/content/doingbusiness/

that looks like it will keep you busy for a while. if you read something and its not in english (common occurance when it comes to taxes) post back and we'll help you out.
http://dor.wa.gov/Content/DoingBusiness/RegisterMyBusiness/Default.aspx
that link may be even better.


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

Also check with your local SBDC office http://www.wsbdc.org/


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## BeeBrothersApiary (Oct 14, 2007)

Chef Isaac said:


> So where do I start?


http://access.wa.gov/business/checklist/checklist1.aspx

http://access.wa.gov/business/checklist/checklist4.aspx


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Chef Isaac said:


> randy: But dont you need a business license and a DBA to file using Sched c or f?
> 
> The big this is that I do not want to pay any taxes in at all. I do not want this to cost us any money but the very miniuim just to cover our ***.


W/ $4,000.00 income before expenses you probably aren't making much Profit to tax, if any.

Come Jan. 1st fill out a Fed. Profit and Loss Statement and see where you stand. Put your profit or loss on the proper line on your income tax form. Considering the source of your real income, I'll bet you'll be alright. Besides, isn't beekeeping a hobby for you? Is $4,000.00 a big percentage of your total income?


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I do not think it is a big percentage in the whole relm of things. I am jsut starting to track all the sales and expenses so we will see what happens.


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## Maine_Beekeeper (Mar 19, 2006)

Chef:
Where to find a CPA?
Ask your friends who own businesses, ask your boss - get a referral. Find someone other people like - if they tell you "he/she beats me up over this and that", there's your man!

I am an accountant by trade but not a CPA - management accounting, Controller is my job.

I have a CPA who does my taxes. (easier, and ultimately probably about at the same cost or less as doing my own taxes as her fees are maybe equal to or probably less than the money she saves me by making a living at knowing tax rules/law which I don't.)

She does an awesome job in general and I've got a good history with her. This is not our only side-business. This year we got into a knock-down drag out fight this October (yes, I filed an extension) over whether the "overland bee thing" was a hobby or a business. She wanted to file for "hobby" I read her Jim Tew's riot act on beekeeping is NOT stamp collecting, it is beekeeping - which is business/farming. We settled on the schedule C (business). I wanted an "F" but it is 6 of one, half dozen of another and that's fine with me, she's the professional. 

turbo tax is fine for people who have a job, house, mortgage, maybe a student loan, and some interest income... start a business, and you're much better served by a CPA. Plus, you'll sleep better at night. (and your wife, and your in-laws.)

my 2 cents. 
-E.


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## AllFloridaBee (Sep 25, 2007)

Maine_Beekeeper said:


> turbo tax is fine for people who have a job, house, mortgage, maybe a student loan, and some interest income... start a business, and you're much better served by a CPA. Plus, you'll sleep better at night. (and your wife, and your in-laws.)
> 
> my 2 cents.
> -E.



Well said. I wouldn't dream of running ANY business without a CPA by my side. A good business attorney too.


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

Another thing to consider is liability insurance and business insurance for the company vehicle. Probably your car insurance wont cover you if you are transporting bee hives, supers, or even driving to work at your beeyard. If you or someone else is hurt in your bee yard, you may be liable and uninsured. You may need to be bonded in case you are sued. You will need to set up a safety plan and comply with numerous safety regulations. Probably you will have to report your business activity quarterly. Seems like a huge hassel, and it is. The aversion for paperwork is one reason why most people prefer to work for someone else. It is a great challenge to start and to run a successful business. It takes a big effort and an ongoing committment. You need to be motivated and dedicated. How serious are you about the honey business?


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Well Paul, I do not want to go to jail or be hasseled. I have the name and logo on the truck now and started making a little money. Just do not know what to do.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

That's the problem. When you start making a little money things get so complicated. I didn't get a license, but since day one, I have kept an accurate record of every dollar I've spent and claim all the money I make. I think you can go 4 or 5 years at a loss before your business is considered just a hobby. This is a great time to spend more on your business than you take in. It gives you the opportunity to get established and buy lots of the stuff you need. I've had a couple of small business ventures and always ended up operating at a loss for the first few years. It's worth the peace of mind to claim your income and keep track of your expenses.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Chef Isaac said:


> Well Paul, I do not want to go to jail or be hasseled. I have the name and logo on the truck now and started making a little money. Just do not know what to do.


If you wanna minimize trouble, ya have to follow the rules. Those (of us) who don't always follow the rules invariably pay the price. The basic rules such as getting a licence if one is required along with consulting your accountant and attorney have been pointed out. In addition, I've been told that it's wise to never, ever lie to mistresses, accountants, or attorneys. Sounds reasonable to me.


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## randydrivesabus (Apr 27, 2006)

Chef-go find a local CPA who specializes in small businesses and sit down with him/her and get yourself straight. If you were living here in VA that CPA would be me but find one near you. It would remove the burden of knowing what you should and shouldn't be doing from your shoulders.


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## notaclue (Jun 30, 2005)

We have a CPA anyway to get through the property and income tax quagmire. Her husband is a rancher and she also does their taxes. She found out I have honeybees and wants to talk to me about the operation. I'll take a pint and since I don't have to sell it I don't unless it starts eating into our finances, past the agreed upon budget. I'm hoping I have the best of both worlds here.

Edit- We've known her for quite a while and she has always steered us in the right direction.


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## chefbeek (Sep 7, 2007)

*Order out Chef!*

Hey Chef-
You and I have both seen restauranteurs running restaurants out of their pockets! Stresses me out just thinking about it!!! Is that the kind of apiary you want to run? 

The good operators let someone else worry about that stuff. If anyone asks, just tell them your CPA/attorney told you so. If it doesn't have to do with "growing the business," delegate it chef.

Eamon


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