# Is my problem SHB or wax moth?



## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

I am a new beekeeper for approximately 5 weeks, and last evening when the hive was quiet I checked the bottom board of my TBH and found larvae. I have attached video. I inspected the inside a couple of days ago and everything seemed fine. I am not sure if my hive has SHB I plan to inspect the inside of the hive today but I would appreciate any advice and recommendations.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

That looks like shb larvae to me. Is your hive queenright? Plenty of bees? Are they drawing new comb? Worker brood?
In a 5 week old hive…seeing those on my bottom board would concern me.


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

I am 99% sure the hive is queen right because the day before I saw drone brood and worker brood. They are really busy drawing out lots of comb too. Up until I found the larvae I was really excited that thing were textbook perfect.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I don't have any experience with top bar hives. It might be textbook perfect for all I know. In my Langstroths....I'd give them a thorough inspection if I saw those larvae on the bottom.


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## johnmcda (Aug 10, 2015)

SHB larva are about 1/2" long; wax moth larva are 1" or longer


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

I did a thorough Hive check today and did not see any live SHB larvae but I do believe I saw bee larvae because there was only one in each cell, there were no double larvae that might indicate small hive beetle. I did see dried-up dead larvae on the bottom of the hive and about a dozen dried larvae in the cells. 

I saw the queen, new baby bees emerging, lots of worker brood, drone brood, honey, nectar, pollen and one small partially started Queen cell.

I have now put the hive on cement pavers and under them sprinkled a layer of Diatomaceous Earth and covered that with Landscaping cloth.

I don't know if it will help but I also put Swiffer cloths on the bottom board below the screen.

I also saw a video where Dave Burns took a CD case and put a small amount of honey Crisco and a little bit of boric acid and then closed it and placed it in the bottom of the hive the holes in the side of the CD case are only large enough for beetles and not the bees, in his video he said he had some success with killing small Hive beetles.

I was not able to get any photos that might be helpful though.


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

If that is the case they were SHB.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>SHB larva are about 1/2" long; wax moth larva are 1" or longer

Greater wax moth (Galleria mellonella) larvae are quite small at first as are lesser wax moths and small hive beetles. Like tiny. Lesser wax moth (Achroia grisella) larvae are always small and never get over 1/2". SHB larvae (Aethina tumida Murray) are also always small. Larvae grow as they mature. SHB larvae are much more active squirming and moving more than wax moths, though wax moth larvae also move they don't make up a squirming mass...


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

SHB larvae have spines on their back.

Do you have a SHB magnet (pollen patty) in your hive? If so, check it for SHB, remove it if you see eggs or larvae. You can freeze it and return it to the hive if you want. I would only give them as much as they can consume in a few days.

A good, still photo of dried larvae you mentioned would be helpful. 

Good luck,
Alex


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Alex, I wish I would have taken close up photos of the larvae in addition to the video, I do not have pollen patty's in the hive and I am not supplementing their food, it is only what they gather. They are building up the hive and the queen is busy laying worker and drone brood. It is a 27 bar top bar hive and there is comb in various stages on 19 bars. If is see anything else I will attempt better photos. 
Regards,
Mary


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

marymg said:


> I don't know if it will help but I also put Swiffer cloths on the bottom board below the screen.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Ruthie, 

Thanks for helping me out. I tried the DE on the bottom board but it drops down hanging vertical off hinges and does not slide out to stay stable and vertical and I was making a bit of a mess with it. It is something we will change should I get my hubby to build me another hive in the future. I was concerned about putting the swiffer cloths in the hive because I did not want it to be problematic for the bees. Have you tried that? 

Also when I did my hive inspection I have a queen cell in the making on the outside of a comb that is located on the outside of all the other combs in the hive. What do you make of that? The weather here is going to be beautiful today and I was going to check out all the bars again today. I understand if the bees swarm it is better to have that happen early in the season rather than later. I have quite a few empty bars left for the bees to work on. The comb that they have produced is amazing, the bees are so calm and do not seem to mind my visits. This new hobby is quite addictive, I am finding my garden to be quite the refuge space. If I could only convince the rabbits to limit the number of my echinacea plants the eat it would be perfect lol. 

I wish I could find someone in this area who understands Top Bar Beekeeping like you do. I went to visit an apiary of a local beekeeper and the was very negative and told me that I was wasting my time and was going to fail. His bees were very aggressive, my husband was stung within 10 seconds of getting out of my Jeep and we were nowhere near his hives yet. It was not a good visit and I wish I did not even go there because it chipped away at my confidence so, I am trying to rebuild it here on this forum, I appreciate you and the others who have experience with TBH Beekeeping. 

Regards,
Mary


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Ruthie this is what I found in the bottom of the beehive today. The bees all appeared to be healthy there was some dark larvae in a few of the cells be larvae that looked healthy too. I did not see any beetles or larvae that I showed in the video in the beginning of this post.


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Michael,

This is what I found in the hive today. The dead larvae were on the bottom of the hive. The bees all appear to be healthy there were no beetles or larvae like in the video. There was some dead larvae in a few of the cells and live larvae too.


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## trishbookworm (Jun 25, 2016)

I just want to clarify something - seeing capped brood means the queen was laying 2 weeks ago. It doesn't tell you anything about _now_. It is important to see eggs and larvae on each visit. If you don't see those, then there is a problem - this time of year, usually swarming.

The pics are NOT bee larvae. Bee larvae should be suspended in a shallow pool of pearly white liquid - google some pics, you'll be able to see the difference. I don't know what kind of pest that is. SHB will slime the comb, and wax moth will tunnel behind brood comb and eat it to nothing. Those are...something else. 

Bees appear healthy until they are dead, and don't slowly go downhill so you have time to save the hive. That's pretty different from other critters, where they can look ill and then you have time to get a treatment for their illness!


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Trish, 
I saw the queen yesterday for certain. There is a lot of capped worker brood and a few drone cells today. The pictures I am attaching are what I found in the bottom of the hive today. 














And the last picture is what I saw on one of the smaller combs.







I have put empty bars between the larger drawn out combs and still have a couple empty bars on each end. The hive DOES NOT SMELL. The bees are active and very docile. I have read every book I have gotten my hands on and have watched many videos. I wondered if the black larvae I am seeing is drone larvae. I can see the larvae that is white and in the pearly white liquid but I also see some black dead larvae too in some of the cells. I am not finding many dead bees. So far I have only found two.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I think the last pic looks like eggs that have turned brown and black.

I think you should post on the pest and disease section. Maybe they will been seen by more people.

Alex


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Thanks for the suggestion. This is the first time I have been on a forum and I am still learning my way around.

Regards, 
Mary


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Looks like chilled or starved brood.


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Thank you I think that it is chilled brood because our weather has been miserable and maybe I don't have enough bees to warm the brood nest when the temps drop at night. I had put sugar syrup into the hive to see if they were indeed hungry and they are ignoring it and foraging instead.


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Population management is crucial. Lots of bees in a small area make it harder for the SHB to be a problem. Having a lot of frames and area not being covered by bees is harder for the bees to guard. You want to try to stay right on the edge of swarming. A little extra room is fine.. A follower board would be helpful to you. Pull the honey as it is capped and that keeps the SHB from being much of a problem also. 
Eggs are what you are looking for in an inspection not capped brood. If you see eggs then your golden. If you see eggs and you see the queen then pinch that queen cell you spoke of. I would guess its not a viable cell.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I've had to work all weekend, so I've been away from beesource for a bit. Marymg, something certainly looks "off" when it comes to those larvae in the comb and on the floor of the hive. Normally, the mortuary bees would be taking care of any dead, so you would not have a build up of them in the hive.

How about a few pictures of the alive bees and comb in the hive? how many drawn combs in your topbar hive do you currently have? how many are full of pollen, how many just honey and how many brood frames? A few photos of the bees working the brood nest will show the rest of us if there are new, healthy nurse bees or if they are an aging population.

As to your other question about the sheet on the bottom of the screen to trap small hive beetles, I have used that before in my nucs that did not have the DE on them. I will post a few links here to my FB video. It will catch a bee or two, but it is worth it if the hive is battling SHB.

https://www.facebook.com/topbarbeehive/videos/1416457368380789/

https://www.facebook.com/topbarbeehive/videos/1416459485047244/


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Hi Ruthie I have been away from the forum as well as we have had out of town company, so I have not been able to "bee" involved with my bees. I will try to get you the photos you asked for but AGAIN I am battling the thunderstorms and rain here. I feel like I should be an ark. I will put a swiffer sheet in the bottom of the hive in between the raindrops I have a screened bottom but do not open up the bottom door because of our nasty weather do you leave yours open, does temp matter?


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## marymg (Apr 30, 2018)

Thank you for saying that because I was wondering if I was giving them too much space. I will rearrange the bars and put my follower board back in the hive to reduce the space they currently have because I believe they have about 6 or seven empty bars in there. I believe that I am also dealing with chilled brood because I have dead larvae on the bottom of the hive and maybe with too much space the bees can't keep everyone warm and that might be why the larvae are dying.


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## Thucar (Mar 11, 2017)

In an earlier post you mentioned you have added empty bars in between drawn comb. If you still have any empty bars or half-drawn comb the bees do not seem to be working on, move them behind the follower board. If your weather is cold and there is more than a "bee space" between two brood combs, it takes twice as many bees to keep the brood warm.


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