# started nucs late



## RAlex (Aug 18, 2001)

Hello thinkharder; 
In the june issue of Bee Culture there is an excellent article about making up nucs after in july. The article is ""bout a 100-sideline beekeeping" Well worth the read .
It is my opinion that your queens will have no problem finding drones to mate with... Rick


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Thank you, RAlex. I hope the queens do find a DCA within their flight range. 

I couldn't find the article on the Bee Culture website. Sadly, the list for June of 2008 on the archives page doesn't include the title you mentioned. Possibly the article was only available on the printed version of the magazine. 

Karen


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Think: Buy the booked called "increased essentials". Kirk Webster and Michael Palmer both advocate late summer nucs. i have done it now for 2 years and they work great.


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks for the book rec. The purchase will have to wait until next year, though. I've maxed out my spending on my new hobby. If the book discusses the stuff I read in the "Building My Own Nucs...Info Please" thread, then I'll be all right. I've been reading threads about wintering for a week now. 

Karen


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

My two nucs have capped queen cells. One has ten, the other has one (though it had three two weeks earlier). Their are plenty of nurse bees hanging about. No sign of a virgin queen.

It's my queenright hive that has me worried. I've been feeding all the bees sugar syrup and pollen supplement. The queenright hive has loaded all drawn supers with inverted sugar (at least I think it's inverted sugar) and the queen seems to be laying very slowly. The workers are not drawing wax on the newest frames. They are finally drawing wax on a black foundation frame (the only black plastic foundation in this hive), but the queen has laid eggs on only one side of it and even laid in cells that are only half drawn. The remaining frames that are fully drawn are stuffed with liquid. I saw maybe a few eggs in one other frame, just a few at the bottom. There are seven frames with drawn wax. The remaining are new. I had to divide the drawn frames between the queen right hive and the nucs (I used frames from two supers). All the hives, including the nucs, have about seven drawn frames each.

What do I do? The queen has nowhere left to lay. The workers are building comb between frames rather than drawing on the new foundation (white plastic). There seems to be lots of bees, but she sure doesn't look like she's laying a thousand eggs a day. 

Karen


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## golddust-twins (Sep 8, 2007)

>Buy the booked called "increased essentials".

Okay Chef, you have mentioned this book before--I've been trying to find it. Where can one obtain this book?

Corinne


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## BigDaddyDS (Aug 28, 2007)

The book is called "Increase Essentials" and is rather good. Personally, I think another book, aimed a little more toward queen rearing, called "Bee Sex Essentials" is a better book to start with, and THEN follow up with "Increase Essentials". But, that's just personal opinion. Either book by Dr. Larry Connor is excellent.

Both of them are available through suppliers like Dadant, but I'd go right to the source. http://www.wicwas.com/ Check out his other beekeeping book titles. Good stuff for sure!

DS


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, I bought Increase Essentials, but anyone have a solution for me for this queen before the book arrives?

Karen


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## Dundrave (Jun 1, 2008)

*Making late Nucs*

Anyone out there want to elaborate on how they get their nucs to overwinter? 
When to split a nuc for overwintering? 

I have the concept of how to build them. Do you have to do anything special to get them to make it through the winter? How much honey do they need?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

thinkharder said:


> Well, I bought Increase Essentials, but anyone have a solution for me for this queen before the book arrives?
> 
> Karen



First take a deep breath..... then think less

I would stop feeding because it sounds like they are filling all the space in the hive with sugar. Leave them be; they can get stressed out by too much interference. It sounds to me like the queen is doing fine. I would not check on her more than once in a two week period. Also don't hunt her down everytime you open the hive; do quick checks and see if there is brood in all stages of development, check for swarm and supercedure cells and then close it up.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Dundrave said:


> Anyone out there want to elaborate on how they get their nucs to overwinter?
> When to split a nuc for overwintering?
> 
> I have the concept of how to build them. Do you have to do anything special to get them to make it through the winter? How much honey do they need?


Well it will take some practice for you in that part of the country. Mike Palmer does it so it's doable. He would be your best source of information because he in your area and wintering is very much regional.


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Thinking less, checking hives only every two weeks, and feeding queenright hive less sugar syrup. Check, check and check. 

Actually, I looked at the queen twice yesterday. It's because I couldn't remember the colour of her marking. Yesterday I wanted to check the colour of her marking and, while checking all the hives for progress, I forgot to make a note of it. I sort of remembered yellow, but wasn't sure. So off went the lid again and I found her on the same frame. She didn't seem to mind. But I'll leave her alone after I get rid of that sugar syrup. They can eat what they already have in the frames for a while.


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Ok, so I didn't get rid of the sugar syrup. Instead, I took that extra frame with three queen cells and set things up to raise another queen over the queenright hive. I worry that hive three with one capped queen cell will give me nothing if some accident happens, and the idea of losing nine out of ten queens in hive two when the first queen hatches really bothers me. Seems a real waste. So off went the tops of hives one and two and that extra frame with three capped queen cells from hive two is now above a queen excluder on hive one, with a frame of capped food on one side and a frame of brood taken from the lower super. The remaining sides are filled with frames that need drawing, but that's all I have to give, since I split the only hive I was able to purchase and it had a limited amount of drawn frames. Anyhow, the new "nuc" at least shares hive heat.

If things go right, I get three new queens from one. If not, I get at least a few extra. I hope.

And now I'll stop peeking at the poor buzzies until two more weeks. I'll let you know if my meddling amounts to something good or bad.

If I'm very lucky, someone in Montreal is going to give me a deal on used equipment so I'll have as many supers as I need for next season. I'm just waiting on the email. She hasn't said why she's selling, so this may mean more scorching the insides of supers. I hope I don't have to burn a lot of frames like last time. Last time, I burned a hundred despite that they smelled ok. The dead bees looked like they died of starvation.

Karen


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

thinkharder said:


> So off went the tops of hives one and two and that extra frame with three capped queen cells from hive two is now above a queen excluder on hive one, with a frame of capped food on one side and a frame of brood taken from the lower super.
> 
> Karen


Okay.....If I am reading this right you have the three queen cells in a queen right hive above a queen excluder? If your bees do what they are supposed to the will tare down the three queen cells. If they are queen right and not wanting to supercede or swarm they will not allow new queens to hatch.

As far as the marked queen color goes, if you open a hive and a marked queen is no longer marked, they replaced her. Yellow was the color for 2007 so if the person you bought the hive off of abides by the color code she is last years queen. Not everybody follows the color guide though, I mark with what ever color I have on hand at the time, usually white because I think it is easier to spot in the hive than some f the other colors.

So I am taking bets that you don't make it two weeks before peaking into your hives again What do you plan to do this winter when you have 5 months that you will not beable to open them up
Anyway enjoy your bees the way you want to....they will teach you everything you need to know.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

The best I (at least what works for me) is to make sure all my nucs are made up by the end of July. I put nucs into a deep hive body with a wooden divider that can be pulled when needed. Anyway, I made seperate inner covers with holes in them. I feed them starting around the 21st or so of August. Stop feeding them around October or so depending. Then I leave a sugar cake over the hole. They use that during the winter and acts like innsurance to me.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

bluegrass said:


> So I am taking bets that you don't make it two weeks before peaking into your hives again What do you plan to do this winter when you have 5 months that you will not beable to open them up


Get an observation hive. Who said it can not be a 12 month adventure!


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I would add some ore insite as far as getting the nucs through the winter. There is a delicate balance between feeding andbrood rearing. You do not want to pump them full of feed too early on as they will backfill the brood nest and the queen will not be able to lay. The on the other hand, you do not want them to strave before fall either. That is why, here at least, feeding late August/mid September is the ideal time.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dundrave said:


> Anyone out there want to elaborate on how they get their nucs to overwinter?
> When to split a nuc for overwintering? Do you have to do anything special to get them to make it through the winter? How much honey do they need?


Where are you in Vermont? I'm making nucs every week until the end of the month. You could come help. Right now, I'm too tired to type and think...all at the same time.


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Oh oh. If they tear them apart, I just wasted capped queen cells. I did see a couple of empty supercedure cells inside the queenright hive, though. Could mean nothing, but they weren't there last time I checked.


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## Dundrave (Jun 1, 2008)

*Michael*

I am in Weathersfield (near Springfield).

I would love to drive up any day you had time and energy! 

I will email you.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Chef Isaac said:


> The best I (at least what works for me) is to make sure all my nucs are made up by the end of July. I put nucs into a deep hive body with a wooden divider that can be pulled when needed. Anyway, I made seperate inner covers with holes in them. I feed them starting around the 21st or so of August. Stop feeding them around October or so depending. Then I leave a sugar cake over the hole. They use that during the winter and acts like innsurance to me.


Chief- Can you explain to this newbee, more detail about these holes. We are doing this overwinter set up for the first time here in No. Va. Some of us are using brushy mt. queen castles which are deep hive bodies, do have separate inner covers and masonite dividers. 2 nucs in each castle. I was thinking about feeding queen candy, but thought I would need to craft a sort of shim under the inner covers. How big a hole to you drill? You put the candy right on top? You never feed syrup. THANKS so much for any insight.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

*Do you run 4 or 5 frames nucs in the double deep for your overwintering?*

Do you run 4 or 5 frames nucs in the double deep for your overwintering?

I am still working on that delicate balance of not over feeding nucs destined for overwintering but being sure they will have plenty of stores for winter.

long story short, i think I fed too much early on, they were overpopulated and frames backfilled with sugar water. I took out the division board feeder and put in an unddrawn frame which they drew out in one week. 
Now I think, gee, I bettter get that feeder back in there, cause ultimately I will need it to feed with! So I am going to take out the empty drawn out frame. Hope for the best.

Thoughts? Note- no fall flow in my area


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

winevines,
if they can draw out a frame in a week i would let them. that's behavior i always try to encourage


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

We started nucs with queen cells on July 27. I would have desired earlier, but that didn't happen. All seven of them are laying eggs now, but their brood patterns aren't fantastic. We're in a drought that has everything wilting. And I'm not seeing more than 3 drones in 10 hives. So I doubt they had many drones to mate with.


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