# Queen Mating flight



## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

I took a 16 day old iffy queen cell, and put it in a nuc, with a frame of eggs and young larva with all the bee that were on the frames on May 8th. On May 14 I looked to see if any queen cells had been made from the brood I put in the nuc. On the first frame I pulled, I saw the new queen. The queen cell must of not been to iffy. I put the lid back on and have been wait for her mating flight. Not much activity until today (day 22) when the whole front of the hive was covered with bees and it looked like they where doing orientation flights. The problem with that is there has been no capped brood that is even close to emerging.* Do the bee follow the queen into or out of the hive as to protected her from any predators that may be lurking that may want to snatch her up?* I am sure I seen the queen inter the hive.


----------



## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Looks good give it a least a week then look for eggs.


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Check back in a week you are way to early.


----------



## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

No one answered your "what's happening?" question. So far they said, "Wait a while." I can only offer suspicions based on what I think the bees perceive. They know very quickly when a queen is gone. I've heard the roar start in very few minutes after I took a queen from a hive. They presumably know when the queen "steps out for a bit" at mating flights, and probably some follow. It's not clear until it's clear that it's not a swarm. I've heard about "mating flight swarms" that leave and return with the queen, but don't know whether it happens or it's someone's interpretation. I'm inclined to believe it happens.

So far my opinion. You'll generate one yourself soon. Maybe one of us will be correct.


----------



## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

I believe the orientation flights were the bees and brood you transferred earlier. 2 of the nucs I made at the end of April looked exactly the same way when I checked on them this past weekend. I know they were queenless so it had to be the capped brood that had hatched out and previous nurse bees becoming foragers.

There was a large cloud of bees at both of them.


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

DerTiefster said:


> No one answered your "what's happening?" question. So far they said, "Wait a while." I can only offer suspicions based on what I think the bees perceive. They know very quickly when a queen is gone. I've heard the roar start in very few minutes after I took a queen from a hive. They presumably know when the queen "steps out for a bit" at mating flights, and probably some follow. It's not clear until it's clear that it's not a swarm. I've heard about "mating flight swarms" that leave and return with the queen, but don't know whether it happens or it's someone's interpretation. I'm inclined to believe it happens.
> 
> So far my opinion. You'll generate one yourself soon. Maybe one of us will be correct.


It had only been 6 days since you installed a queencell. The fastest I've seen a queen mated and laying has been 7 days doesn't happen that often. 12 days after the queen emerges is pretty much the norm for me. I raise a lot of queens every year and have been for years. His bee math doesn't add up.


----------



## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

Slow Drone said:


> It had only been 6 days since you installed a queencell. The fastest I've seen a queen mated and laying has been 7 days doesn't happen that often. 12 days after the queen emerges is pretty much the norm for me. I raise a lot of queens every year and have been for years. His bee math doesn't add up.


My question was not if I should open the hive and look for the queen laying. It been 22 days not 25(my error). I understand bee math fully. If you had read the question it had nothing to do with bee math or if I should look or not. I was asking weather the bees would follow her out of the hive as sort of protection. One bee is and easy target but a 100 bees its not so easy to to hone in on one particular bee. I was curious of all the activity at the hive and seeing the queen.


----------



## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

DerTiefster said:


> *No one answered your "what's happening?" question.* So far they said, "Wait a while." I can only offer suspicions based on what I think the bees perceive. They know very quickly when a queen is gone. I've heard the roar start in very few minutes after I took a queen from a hive. They presumably know when the queen "steps out for a bit" at mating flights, and probably some follow. It's not clear until it's clear that it's not a swarm. I've heard about "mating flight swarms" that leave and return with the queen, but don't know whether it happens or it's someone's interpretation. I'm inclined to believe it happens.
> 
> So far my opinion. You'll generate one yourself soon. Maybe one of us will be correct.


Thanks DefTiefster......I am beginning to think people can't read and or don't understand what a question mark is.


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Steve in PA said:


> I believe the orientation flights were the bees and brood you transferred earlier. 2 of the nucs I made at the end of April looked exactly the same way when I checked on them this past weekend. I know they were queenless so it had to be the capped brood that had hatched out and previous nurse bees becoming foragers.
> 
> There was a large cloud of bees at both of them.


There's your answer right there. Sorry my bad but it sounded like you thought a queen was on a mating flight possible but not probable but your bee math would tell you that.


----------



## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

I thought the O.P. was asking what seemed to me to be a reasonable question: During mating flights, do any of the bees accompany the queen, thereby serving as "bait" for predators? I offered the opinion that bees seem to be able to sense the virgin's absence during the mating flight, and considered it reasonable that some might yield to a "swarm influence," it not being clear until the queen's return that it isn't a "real" swarm.

I still don't know. But the queen might leave the hive on a mating flight 6 days post-emergence, if I understand the timetable correctly. It's not clear to me how many bees might notice and hurry along with her. But it does seem that there could be a "fish schooling" kind of benefit to the queen's survival. Some say that queens go on multiple mating flights. I'd suspect she "smells more like a queen" on the later flights, and might be more likely to draw a train of followers. These are suspicions, not conclusions. I have only pieces to put together, and they probably belong to more than one puzzle.


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Yes sometimes a few bees will accompany the the queen but it's mostly drones. Yes there may be more activity when a queen leaves on a mating flight. A majority of my queens just shoot right out like a bullet when taking mating flights and you will see a few more bees than normal fanning as they wait for her return.


----------



## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Translation of my first post. Looks good = what you see is normal , give it a at least a week and check for eggs = let's see if she made it back and started laying.
Don't make thing more complicated than they are.


----------



## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

Dan the bee guy said:


> Translation of my first post. Looks good = what you see is normal , give it a at least a week and check for eggs = let's see if she made it back and started laying.
> Don't make thing more complicated than they are.


No translation needed. I understood fully. Theres nothing complicated of the question I asked. You just did not no the answer to it. I suspect, like a lot of posters on here, theirs more interested in a higher post count then actually helping people with their questions.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I´m not sure where I read this, maybe Francois Huber, but I thought the virgin queen would do some orientation flights first ( with help of a bee cloud irritating predators and some help of fanning to find back) and when she started her mating flights would go alone sometimes.
Never watched that myself having only outyards.


----------



## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

SiWolKe said:


> I´m not sure where I read this, maybe Francois Huber, but I thought the virgin queen would do some orientation flights first ( with help of a bee cloud irritating predators and some help of fanning to find back) and when she started her mating flights would go alone sometimes.
> Never watched that myself having only outyards.


Thanks SiWolKe...that seems to make sense to me. It could of been what I was seeing yesterday. The queen just doing orientation flight.


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

billdean said:


> ...Do the bee follow the queen into or out of the hive as to protected her from any predators that may be lurking that may want to snatch her up?...


The answer to your question is, 'yes, sometimes.' My guess is your virgin queen is producing pheromone levels that stimulate the bees to give her extra attention. Some queen cells and most virgins are virtually ignored and a few virgin queens are smothered in attention after a couple days. You likely have one of those special queens. 

billdean, Your OP's narrative revealed a need to understand several basic points about the bees not directly related to your bolded question, and members addressed that, they weren't running up their post count. 



billdean said:


> I suspect, like a lot of posters on here, theirs more interested in a higher post count then actually helping people with their questions.


Not an endearing observation billdean.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Why he thanked me, not knowing I have a high post account....


----------



## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

Lburou said:


> The answer to your question is, 'yes, sometimes.' My guess is your virgin queen is producing pheromone levels that stimulate the bees to give her extra attention. Some queen cells and most virgins are virtually ignored and a few virgin queens are smothered in attention after a couple days. You likely have one of those special queens.
> 
> billdean,* Your OP's narrative revealed a need to understand several basic points* about the bees not directly related to your bolded question, and members addressed that, they weren't running up their post count.
> 
> *Not an endearing observation billdean.*


My narrative was basic information leading up to my question which was left unaddressed by some. Their assumption was I did not know the basic points you talk about. But the bottom line is people go out of there way to get an answer to their question and share their experiences and when posters don't answer the asked question, how is that helpful? If they are unsure of whats being asked, ask for clarification. When a poster asks a specific question he/she generally would like it answered, and then if they have other things to add then by all means do so. 
It may not be and endearing observation but there is a lot of truth in it. Thank you Lburou for answering my question!

SiWolKe....not everyone falls into that category for sure. There are some here that are very knowledgeable and helpful with a low post count also. It doesn't take long to know who to listen to and who not too.


----------



## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

I've seen what I have assumed were queen mating flights. I've never actually seen a virgin leave or return, but I have seen unusual activity around some of my mating nucs. I've seen a lot of flying activity start but not with the orientation flying pattern. The bees are flying up to maybe 3-4 feet above the mating nuc in a slow circling pattern...kind of like you will see with a swarm leaving but obviously on a much much smaller scale. At the same time bees will be fanning at the entrance and on the outside of the hive body.

I only raise queens for my own use so I only have 12-18 mating nucs at a time and they are quite variable in their population. Some only have maybe a thousand bees and I'm guessing that it would be harder to tell that something unusual is happening. So the answer could be "sometimes" or maybe "sometimes depending on the population of the nuc".


----------



## Artur_M (Aug 14, 2016)

I think I'll share my story here cause I am in the similar situation:

I had 2 hives since last July. They survived winter well, so well so they swarmed:
1st one on April 16 and again April 29 (most probably with virgin queen)
2nd one on April 26. (I coat this swarm and hived them, they weren't doing well, seemed like queen-less and most of the bees died)

May 3 I went through the hives and cut (I think) all the queen cells. Some of the queen were about to hatch, so when they were hatching in my bucket, I put them in through the main entrance to the hive. I put at least 2-3 queen in each hive.
Into the swarm-hive I put queen from both hives.

By now I don't know if any of those queens survived and if there was a mating flight.
The hives behavior looks like queen-less (K-wing bees on the landing board infant of the hive.), but it could be only guess.

Last 2-3 days are more or less warm (70-90), so "favorable" for mating flight, but the bees are more defensive - got attacked by random bee straight shot.

I was advised to look for egg/larvae in 2-3 weeks, so I am going to check hives internally next week (maybe wednesday)


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

> May 3 I went through the hives and cut (I think) all the queen cells. Some of the queen were about to hatch, so when they were hatching in my bucket, I put them in through the main entrance to the hive. I put at least 2-3 queen in each hive.
> Into the swarm-hive I put queen from both hives.


What kind of management is that? I don´t understand.


----------



## Artur_M (Aug 14, 2016)

I want to say "poor/beginner" - it's hard to say till I have actual results.

I checked the "swarm hive" today, saw no queen - no brood, some comb. Some ants were managing part of the hive 

Did the external visual and sound inspection of 2 main hives: 2nd hive was quite and relatively calm, although there were bees with "K" shaped wings infant of the hive (signs of queen-less hive), 1st hive was about the same, except more bees were out and some of them with flapping wings and it was noisy (more signs of queen-less).

I am planning to go through the hives next week, so will be able to tell about management later.

My main concern was avoiding swarming.


----------



## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

It's pretty standard (I think) to take the existing queen, some bees, and some capped brood frames to a nuc when an "about to swarm" hive is found. Call it a fake swarm. 
The existing colony is given some frames with either empty comb or new foundations then left alone to re-queen itself. If that fails the nuc with old queen can be re-combined using the newspaper method. Have done this quite a few times and only once or twice have I had to re-combine. The nuc can be used many ways.


----------



## MaynerdOllie (May 20, 2017)

I am a noob, but why would there be concern of a queenless colony swarming?


----------



## unclekb (Jul 6, 2015)

no useful info here, just upping my post count!!!


----------

