# Hello and DWV Mite Question



## ElloreeBee (Aug 14, 2014)

Hello all! Beesource has been a great resource for my first year of beekeeping - Thank you. 

I started three hives from packages this spring. They produced way past my expectations with their colony build up and have produced multiple supers of honey much to my surprise. The only management I have provided was to provide comb and space when needed and I placed beetle jails in the hives. 

I fed Honey-B-Healthy when I first got the packages to give them a jump on making comb. I have otherwise not treated and would like to maintain a treatment free approach if at all possible. Occaisionally this summer I have seen a bee or two that had deformed wing virus. But in the last couple days there has consistently been around 5 bees crawling in front of each hive (both drone and worker) that have had DWV. A guess is that they are combatting varroa mites that are starting to grow in number and effect. I have not done a mite count because it does not seem to be needed if a treatment free approach is taken. The hives have one deep and 3 supers each and they are filled with plenty of bees but it is obvious that there are mites. Is it a pipe dream to think that they can survive the mites, or, should I not worry about it and hope for natural selection of the fittest and hope that they will be strong enough in the spring to be productive again? Do many others have success with a treatment free approach rather than treating (which seems to be a natural desire to help wherever possible)?

Otherwise, this is a fascinating hobby!


----------



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Welcome to bee source. Put a sticky board under the hives and get a mite count. If you don't have screened bottom boards, get them.


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Where did you buy your packages? Locally? Or were they shipped?

I ask because when you buy package bees, unless you KNOW they were treatment free, you are only kidding yourself when you try to make them treatment free now. It's just not logical to expect that bees that have been treated for GENERATIONS are going to suddenly be able to survive without treatments. They won't. 

If your bees were shipped to you, consider this: The company you bought them from treated them for a reason and not just because they felt like it. They treated them because they know their bees cannot survive without treatments AND because in order to stay in the business of selling packages they are IN MOST CASES required to treat them to ship them out of state.

So...what you have in your hives is likely bees that were raised from treated bees that were raised from treated bees that were raised from treated bees--and so forth. If you want bees come spring you will most likely have to treat them before winter. 

Meanwhile if what you REALLY want is treatment-free bees, then come spring requeen your hives with VSH queens or locally-raised resistant stock. They are not some "silver bullet" but they ARE a good first step in developing treatment-free stock of your own.

Please don't take this as bashing. It is certainly NOT intended that way. I'm just facing the reality that it is VERY hard to start off without treatment-free stock. Most of us have had to buy commercially raised bees in the beginning and work our way towards the resistance level we need to be treatment-free. But it is certainly a doable proposition.

HTH

Rusty


edited to add: I was around when Varroa mites first hit and watched beek after beek go belly up with dead hives killed by varroa. The bees just could NOT survive the onslaught. Things are a little better today--but not that much that package bees routinely survive without treatment. It just doesn't happen. Treat as you upgrade your stock. Once you add some resistance genetics to the mix, then at least they have a fighting chance for survival.

As always, this is JMO.


----------



## ElloreeBee (Aug 14, 2014)

This is really helpful insight. Thank you. I would rather achieve treatment free sustainable bees and would get more satisfaction out of managing that process than what would be the dissapointment in any losses during the process. I have no interest beyond sustaining a couple hives for the backyard so a loss is not a huge issue other than the time to start all over again.

In hindsight I did buy local packages that were from a treated apiary. Despite them having strong numbers, there is signs of mites, and the question is will they get through winter. I have been fortunate enough to stumble upon a very strong bee tree and I have been researching Cleo Hogans traps. Hopefully I will be able to start some hives with those wild genetics in the spring. If anything, that will be a fun learning experiment.


----------



## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

ElloreeBee, I hate to tell you this, but your hives will crash. Maybe not this year, but they will crash. They are not developed to be treatment free because they come from treated bees. Your best hope of keeping your hives alive, without treating, is to requeen as soon as possible with a bonafide treatment free queen. There are several suppliers who raise such bees. Otherwise you have two choices, treat or watch them die. The sooner you requeen with a treatment free queen the sooner you get bees that can deal with the mites. But if you wait too long, nothing can save the hives.
Good luck!
Steven


----------

