# Cheap lumber



## Wildwood (May 11, 2011)

Just wanted to let you in on a good way to find cheap lumber for your wooden ware and such. Home Depot and Lowes have racks with what they call "culls". It is very cheap, as much as 85% off. It will take some sorting but you might as well stop in when you're driving by. 

For example: I got a 4x8 piece of 3/4" plywood the other day for $2.00 because it was slightly damaged.


----------



## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I have a small backyard beekeeping woodenware business. I love the home depot cull lumber rack. I check a few times a week and i have made an entire 4 box hive with bottoms, inners, and outes for under $20.

Some lumber is very pook but I can work around it. Funny thing.....I buy culled ship lap siding all the time because of broken edge joints......usually $1.01 a board.


----------



## feltze (May 15, 2010)

Another way is to find a local custom sawmiller. (Like me) Even better deals can be had as there is always drop lumber in the yard. Wierd sized or just excess.


It's amazing what a little barter can do for ya too!!!

Eric
(Near Fayetteville NC)


----------



## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Eric, when I purchase lumber for large orders to fill I ALWAYS buy from my local lumber yard or saw mill. The local lumber yard is cheaper that the big orange......that's right cheaper. A #2 1x12"x12' at orange is $24 and of low quality. At the local lumber yard it is $20 and stored flat and of much higher quality. I started build a bunch of equipment out of rough sawn pine planed on one side. I can pick up that at the sawn mill for $11 and it is KD.

Not all saw mills are created equal. I just saw a guy who sells black locust rough sawn. A weed tree in massachusetts and the state is paying loggers to remove them from the forest. This guy wants $4/bf. Kidding me?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

feltze said:


> Another way is to find a local custom sawmiller.
> 
> Eric
> (Near Fayetteville NC)


Local mills are the way to go. I buy industrial grade pine. 
I bought 1250 bdft of 1x12 pine...1x12x8'...for $.30 a ft. From that lumber I built 31 deeps, 116 4 frame nuc box supers, 31 hand truck/drip boards, and 2 Kelley style frame jigs...minus springs.

I don't know how anyone can afford the catalog prices when expanding the apiary to a size that might make a fair income.


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

My local sawmill supplies me with kiln dried, S4S, 6 5/8 lumber of mixed species for cheap. It's mostly odd lengths and/or undesirable for finish material. Worth a phone call or two.


----------



## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Look on Craigslist. Many times you can find lumber for sale from local sawmills or people that want to get rid of some they purchased and never completed the project. Sometime they have it for sale from old homes (that were never painted in the past).

I also get free 3/8 cabinet quality scraps from one of my local cabinet makers. I have built a lot of 5-frame nucs out of them. (See 5-frame nucs thread). Sometimes to get the larger sides I have to glue 2 pieces together. But that just takes a few hours of gluing and then setting them aside for a few days before using them. I get some 3/4 stuff too. Have made some "spacers" with them that have holes for ventilation. I just drill at a downward angle so that rain cannot get into the hive from the (screened) vents.


----------



## John_H (Dec 2, 2009)

I agree with Mike Palmer about using industrial grade lumber. I don't buy anything like the amount he describes, but a local lumber yard offers what the call "crating lumber" it's #4 as opposed to the better grades you find at the big box stores. I build medium boxes for @$3.50 and deeps for less than $5.00.

Culls at HD or Lowes are a good deal. But supply is inconsistent. I know I can always get what I need when I want it and the cost is acceptable.


----------



## THALL (Apr 6, 2010)

Black locust for 4.00 a b/ft isn't that something. I think I'll stick with white pine. A few years ago I had a customer looking for a load of black locust saw logs, in the pursuit for this load I had discovered why black locust lumber and saw logs are so expensive. (Apart from being a beekeeper I am also a lumber broker) Like someone had mentioned earlier in this thread black locust is often looked at as a weed wood. Just how many stands of Black locust trees do you see around that are of decent quality to saw boards out of??? I don't see to many, (Up here in the Connecticut River valley of Vermont and NH) the ones that are big enough are dead and rotted out. Given also that there is a nice little niche market for black locust lumber and logs (saw logs) what supply is available is going for a fancy price. I agree with many others. If you are making your own equipment do your homework and look for a local lumber mill / yard, they will have the best prices.


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I called up a local saw mill that had an add on Craigs list and asked what he had cheap. Last weekend I unloaded 1350 BF of hemlock, no pitch in it, CVG I am guessing 20-25% moisture $400 / 1000 bf. I had one pencil sized knot was all I found in the entire load. He delivered it and gave me the stickers. I have been getting pine for $0.60 BF from the construction recycle / reclaim. They get it in by the rail car and move it as seconds. I don’t think it’s the wood that costs money but the shipping and drying. Air dry and local.


----------



## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Local saw mills are a good deal. However, Watch the moisture content. You will want to store it on stickers under cover for several months till it reaches an equalibrium with the outdoor air. Air dried lumber reaches about 12% here in Ct but that is OK. We assemble boxes and then they live outside for the rest of their life anyway. In many cases, Hive bodies made from kiln dried lumber will swell up in width as much as 1/8 inch after assembly.


----------



## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> Local mills are the way to go. I buy industrial grade pine.
> I bought 1250 bdft of 1x12 pine...1x12x8'...for $.30 a ft.


That is a very good buy! I thought that I had a good source at $.35 a bd ft. !


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I am finding that Craigslist is my best source, and the old wood that I buy is usually more knot free than the #3 grade I see in the store. I am not above buying 1x10 and dowel-jigging boards together to make them big enough for deeps. I rip a 1x10 before I dowel it to another so that the join is at least two inches from the side of the board and make that side the bottom of the box so that it is away from the frame rests. 
I passed up on a bunch of 1x12 short boards last year that would have worked out at $0.18/ linear foot, but I would have had to buy it all and there was $400 of it; I was sorely tempted, but couldn't justify buying that much at once. I am trying keep money going out at a slower rate than it is coming in...


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I dont get it from the local mill but I do get it from the local small lumber yard. They have very good prices. Beat the big box stores big time! Plus its hardly ever warped. Lowes is really bad about that...I usually have to pick through half the pile to get what I need. 
Mike


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I think I figured this out now.


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

feltze said:


> Another way is to find a local custom sawmiller. (Like me)


Looks like I might be getting in contact with you in the future . . . when I need more lumber for equipment, that is, lol.


----------



## feltze (May 15, 2010)

Special K, you should have a bunch of guys up your way as you are closer to the mountains than we are here. But I can take care of ya if you want to drive 2 hrs


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I am surprised that I don't see enterprising saw mill operators ripping boards to 9 5/8 for the beekeeper market and selling them on Beesource. I have seen 1x12's offered, but I haven't seen 1x9 5/8 lumber offered. I suppose it would take a leap of faith as the lumber would be aimed just at beekeepers, but I bet it would sell. Imagine how easy it would be if you could buy the lumber already ripped to the width you wanted.


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I am getting a log sent to me, it is about 5 feet long and around 6 inch diameter. I will cut from it what I need. I'll let you know what it cost to ship this "Free" piece of wood as soon as my friend lets me know what it cost. I am thinking between 50 and 75 dollars. Lumber is expensive to ship, it is large and many times heavy stuff. in this case it is a green log so I am paying to mail a bunch of water. to offer pre cut boards and then add shipping costs woudl sort of kill the idea. Otherwise it would require a large enough local market to make it profitable.


----------



## feltze (May 15, 2010)

Adrian,
If only the wood business was so easy. 

First point -Typically small "custom sawyers" are selling green or at best airdry wood. It is quite easy to fill an order for any particular width but difficult to maintain an inventory of what you think you might sell. It is much easier to keep logs on hand and cut to order than lumber warehoused for the off chance someone will buy a board or 2. The minute you cut a large log into 1x12s someone calls for 2x6's... (every time I swear it). That being said There are always standard sizes you are sorting and stacking for as you build one customers order that you don't need at the moment. 1x6/8/10/12 in various lengths or 2x 6/8/10/12 in 12' and longer. So it's easy to pick up 1x12s

Second - normally anyone capable of making various cabinetry or bee boxes has the right tools to rip lumber to the desired final finish width. Lumber dimension changes with the change in moisture content. Dimensional change of the lumber tangently to the grain is different than longitudinally to the grain, therefore a green 4x4 dries to a slightly dimond shape if cut off center of a log, and differently if cut square in the heart. 

Third - Green lumber is cheaper as labor and kiln time havn't been devoted to finishing it. Making it the best buy for the beekeeper with time and tools on their side. 

So, when working with lumber dry it to the desired finish moisture content, then rip to size will result in the best dimensionally stable and size stable product. 

Air dry here in NC can vary from 10-13% in arizona 4-8%, NY something totally seasonally different. Air dry is good for the bee hive as there is always ambient moisture in the hive and they are only protected from the weather with paint and a top. For in house applications you should be KD to under 10% probably about 6% for most applications to prevent shrinking. 

If you doubt the movement in wood, look at a hardwood floor subject to being allowed to sit in a home flood for a bit... or the swelling of particle board when wet...

I digress, and hope I don't come across wrong, or negative. (Shooting for educational for those interested)


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Eric, no offense taken at all. Your response makes sense to me. Thanks for letting me know from the supplier/sawyer end.


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

feltze said:


> you should have a bunch of guys up your way as you are closer to the mountains than we are here.


I'm sure I do, but I don't know who they are  Most don't operate websites, and aren't easy to locate (unless you know someone).

I occasionally do work down in Southern Pines though, so one day I'm down there I might be able to swing by on my way back, if you are open. I don't have any need for lumber at the moment, just planning for the future. Box store prices are hard to swallow.


----------



## feltze (May 15, 2010)

Beekeepers have beesource.com sawmillers have forestryforum.com

Forestryforum.com is a good starting point if your looking for a local sawyer. They have map link as well which is pretty neat for locating folks


----------



## Rick55 (Aug 1, 2010)

Are the boards you get from the saw mill rough or do they plain them there


----------



## feltze (May 15, 2010)

Rick, 

In a sence it's all about what you "contract for" The most economical is green lumber straight off the sawmill, rough cut, not stickered, not dry. The buyer must take time to airdry the wood on sticks, rip and plane to size. 

Next cheapest, is airdry rough cut. The sawmill must have spent time stacking and handling, then Kiln dry (KD)... then its KD planed 2 sides (S2S), ... Then KD S4S which is what you buy at the typical retail outlet, sorted by grade. 

In the end you make out with the best value buying green straight off the sawmill providing you have a place to store some stickered lumber and have a planer and table saw. If you are buying from someone like me, you typicall get a "bakers dozen" catching what you buy plus some overrun or drop size stock for free.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Rick55 said:


> Are the boards you get from the saw mill rough or do they plain them there


The boards I buy are planed and kiln dried.


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I was just sent an email. the log I mentioned will cost $45 to ship. Now this is not an ordinary run of the mill pine log but it still gives you the idea.


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Sounds like you're going to end up with a couple of 5'x4" boards for $50 each.


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

cg3, your about right but this is wood for a special purpose. I've paid a lot more than that for wood. I'm just trying to show in a real life small scale case that wood is expensive to ship because it is heavy. If you ship it by the semi load it helps keep the cost of shipping much lower. Hence the practice of sending large loads to lumber yards. There is simply a lot of hidden factors in why things are done the way they are.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

feltze said:


> In the end you make out with the best value buying green straight off the sawmill providing you have a place to store some stickered lumber and have a planer and table saw. If you are buying from someone like me, you typicall get a "bakers dozen" catching what you buy plus some overrun or drop size stock for free.


Is not the biggest issue for buying green, not just sticking and drying, but getting a straight edge?


----------



## feltze (May 15, 2010)

Running a straight edge is no problem for most pine lumber that is "center cut" as those pieces are quite strate to start. For other cuts and logs which had a natural crook you end up with lumber with some crook or sweep. This is an easy fix for making small projects.

IF you have a jointer, cut the lumber to 4 ft lengths and run it on the jointer
If you have a table saw, cut the lumber to 2 ft lengths and run a straight edge on the table saw then go back to your miter saw and square the ends.


----------



## darrellva (Feb 2, 2011)

If I buy from my local sawmill I normally get whatever size I am looking for in pine for $.50 bf Normally its less then that cause he always rounds down on the bf and always has extra stuff laying around he throughs on trailer for free. I also take him logs when I find someone that has cut down a pine in there yard or something and want to get the log out of the way. If I take him my logs he only charges me $.20 bf and if I help him by stacking it on my trailer after he cuts it its only like $.15 bf I took two logs to him the other day we cut them and ended up with 600 bf I still have 3 more logs to take him first chance I get. The 600 board feet cost me $130. I ended up with some boards over 20 inches wide I told him to keep them as wide as he could while cutting I can always rip them down.


----------



## reef10 (Jul 3, 2012)

Why does everyone want lumber that is 9-5/8 width? I want a frame that will fit modern lumber. Keeping these messed up dimensions is so wasteful for the most part.


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

reef10 said:


> I want a frame that will fit modern lumber. Keeping these messed up dimensions is so wasteful for the most part.


Exactly! I wish a company would offer pre cut frame components that work correctly in boxes made from standard lumber. We could use standard kiln dried 1x10 for a deep, a 1x8 for a medium and a 1x6 for a shallow.


----------



## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

"Standard" lumber varies quite a bit, usually short of the dimension, so you will still end up shaving some off each board to get them all the same size anyway. I compared 1x12s recently, and found that from the widest to the narrowest bits and pieces I had around there was at least 1/8" difference. Makes for lumpy boxes. Less waste, perhaps, but you still have to decide on a dimension.

Besides, I discovered yesterday I need to start working out again -- heaving a 90% full medium with narrow frames was just about all I wanted to do!

You can made any size you want, but you will need to remember that custom sizes will not interchange with non-custom sizes....

Peter


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Understand that but it would be nice if "you" could make a deep from a 1x10 instead of having to glue up 1x6's or use a 1x12. If the standard depth of a deep was 9 1/4" almost all or all 1x10's would work. I really wonder if that wouldn't work anyway. It would just close the top and bottom gaps between boxes. I don't know all I need to know about bee space so that might violate that in some way.


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

If you build non-standard boxes you lose the advantage of being able to interchange with the millions of standard boxes out there. You would not be able to install nuc frames, for instance. 
Just make something els, tops, bottoms, cleats, etc, with the left over rips.


----------



## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Before lumber shrank so much (funny that trees shrink so much more now than they did 100 years ago, eh?) I suspect a 1x10 raw lumber board was very close to 9 5/8" when air dried. Needless to say, the original raw lumber is nowhere near 1x10" when cut, it's thinner, lower quality, and more has to be machined off to get nearly flat and square.

Hence smaller lumber. I can remember when a 1x10 was 9.5" standard, but that's been a long time ago.

Peter


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Hence smaller lumber. I can remember when a 1x10 was 9.5" standard, but that's been a long time ago.

Here is an interesting history of "standard" lumber sizes:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf
The variance between nominal dimensions and "finished size" has been _increasing _for well over a century!


----------



## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

It seems that lumber down here in the south is a lot cheaper than what its selling for further north. I buy my 1x8x12 for $6.50 and 1x12x12 for $10.50 at a local lumber yard.


----------



## yankee joe (Mar 16, 2013)

Michael, If you have lots of black locust take of advantage of it. It makes some of the best spring honey to be had if you can steel a little from your bees.


----------

