# Is it just me or is grafting for the first time easier than using the graftless type



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Lauri said:


> Place my expensive breeder queen in a new hive with no introduction cage?


Say What??? NO! The breeder queen doesn't move hives. She is in an established hive or nuc already accepted and laying. When ready to start, she gets placed into the graftless box and never leaves her hive. Once she lays she can be released, again back into the same hive. On day 3.5 to 4 larvae get transferred to the cell builder.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes, the instructions that came with the Mann Lake system say make your nuc and leave it queenless for at least 3 days before installing your queen in the graftless system so they won't kill her! YIKES! For a new person who dosn't know better that is insane.

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/publications/product/Queen Device QC 100.pdf


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

So while I am sharing details, I'll say the brown cell fixtures you are supposed to 'Brad nail' onto your frame need to be stapled on both sides. A brad nail will pull right through the plastic and a nail with a larger head will pull right out of your frame, even if it is long enough to go all the way through to the other side of the wood. The yellow cup holders are quite tight and when you try to remove them, the brown cell fixtures will pull right off if you don't staple them. You can see I even tried the nail and glue and made a mess. Do the staple and you're done.










I even had trouble with the JZBZ cells, Mann Lake says they are supposed to fit perfectly in the groove of the frames. Not even close. The frame groove is way to large. These have to modified also.
Sorry if I seem to be complaining. Just sharing info to help others avoid mistakes and frustration. It just seems like the products and info the companies give are not corrrect in many cases. I remember when I got my top feeder from Mann Lake and finding all the drown bees in it before I realized it needed to be calked all around the screen bottom. New beekeepers don't need extra help with failier. We can do it all on our own.
One of the reasons I wanted to use the graftless system is the neat hair roller cages. I sure wish JZBZ had something like those that would fit their cups.










So I will clarify I Love Mann Lake and do most of my business there-not intending to trash them, but certainly they need to rethink a few things.


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

Get the plastic JZBZ cell bars. The cups fit them perfect and no more cups falling off.

Grafting is the only way to go. When your ready to graft, go to your breeder hive and find frame with right age larva and graft.

Johnny


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

I like grafting better, but I usually use mel Dissolkoen system. Its even easier and faster than grafting. The downside is that if I do 20 or so queens there is not much of that frame of comb left when I am done


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