# Propolis



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

-Dupe-


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

I build mediums out of redwood dog-ear fenceboard. This has one-side planed and one-side rough resawn. 
I ramped up my nuc production this year, and as an experiment I built identical 5 frame nucs, some with the plane side in and some with the resawn facing in. 
I counted the mites (post-Amitraz) in 20 nucs of each fashion, when I sold a large batch in August. I ramped the frames up to singles. Average mite count 15/square inch in both styles of nucs -- zero difference. The square inch was a randomly placed paper cut-out (a razored file card) quadrat near the center of the five frame nuc frames (transfered to a medium single).


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm not convinced of it's effectiveness either way. It was a query. I wouldn't gauge it's success on mite counts though. I'd be more interested in it's affect, if any, on viral loads, which I could only surmise from observation. Even then that's an iffy undertaking. I like your ideas of using fence picket, though. Thanks.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

a couple of excerpts from a. lee lang's article in abj, jan 2017, vol. 157 no. 1, pp 71-73

"Of interest the researchers found no significant differences between bacterial or pathogen levels between colonies maintained in a propolis enveloped colony as compared to control colonies. However, the research offers some tantalizing data that suggests that colonies maintained in propolis envelopes demonstrate increased strength after overwintering."

"Numerous in vitro experiments have demonstrated the inhibitory activity of propolis extracts on Paenibacillus larvae (responsible for American foulbrood, AFB) and Ascosphaera apis (responsible for chalkbrood). Propolis extracts have been found to have miticide properties against Varroa mite in vitro. A recent in vivo experiment that utilized an Egyptian propolis ethanolic extract in 50% sugar water demonstrated a 100% reduction in AFB clinical symptoms in AFB-infected colonies."

"For the most part, the miticide properties of propolis have not yet been borne out in in vivo studies. However, biology is rarely as simple as scientists would like it to be. A study that examined propolis chemical composition in Varroa mite resistant and susceptible bees in Avignon, France demonstrated just how complex the question may be. The researchers found that Varroa mite resistant colonies had lower amounts of 70% ethanol soluble content in their propolis. However, _the composition of the propolis from Varroa mite resistant colonies had higher concentrations of specific chemical components as compared to susceptible colonies._ The researchers go on to hypothesize that the Varroa mite resistant colonies in Avignon, France may allocate less resources in total to gathering plant resins, lending to the idea that propolis producing colonies may be more productive."

(italics mine)

the author goes on to point out that the chemical composition of propolis varies from region to region. it's likely that we will see more research aimed at teasing out the details, and i for one won't be too surprised if those studies end up yielding some practical applications.

i've already observed that my best colonies tend to be heavy propolizers and vice versa. it's one of the criteria i am now including in my selection of breeder queens.


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## trishbookworm (Jun 25, 2016)

I haven't had a chance to read the papers, but the gist I got from the abstracts was that the genetics of bees who collect more propolis is linked with better survival despite varroa.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786419.2014.881366 some french bees
http://repositorio.unesp.br/handle/11449/113315 some africanized bees, which of course had low varroa anyways, but link with higher honey production and higher propolis production in high propolis lines.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> a couple of excerpts from a. lee lang's article in abj, jan 2017, vol. 157 no. 1, pp 71-73
> 
> "Of interest the researchers found no significant differences between bacterial or pathogen levels between colonies maintained in a propolis enveloped colony as compared to control colonies. However, the research offers some tantalizing data that suggests that colonies maintained in propolis envelopes demonstrate increased strength after overwintering."
> 
> ...


Fascinating stuff, SP. Thanks. I need to subscribe to ABJ one of these days. Would be interesting to be able to break down the local propolis chemically just to have the info. This study definitely points to it being potentially more than just the bee equivalent of stucco.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

trishbookworm said:


> I haven't had a chance to read the papers, but the gist I got from the abstracts was that the genetics of bees who collect more propolis is linked with better survival despite varroa.
> 
> http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786419.2014.881366 some french bees
> http://repositorio.unesp.br/handle/11449/113315 some africanized bees, which of course had low varroa anyways, but link with higher honey production and higher propolis production in high propolis lines.


Thanks Trish. I've read the T&F linked study before, but not the other. Will give it a read.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Nordak said:


> I need to subscribe to ABJ one of these days.


you are welcome nordak. it's well worth the $16. the articles are footnoted with references that you can dig deeper into if you want to, and you get to view all the way back to february 2009.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> and you get to view all the way back to february 2009.


Wow. Very nice.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

double post


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

The moment you open a hive and the propolis is sticky you know they are preparing for future medication or brood and hive protection.
The propolis dry, they just now are content.

My queenless had the highest quantity of sticky propolis when the new queen started to lay.
My queenright had the same when they had a crisis.
The AMM have double quantity of propolis than the Carnicas.

Since our bees are bred to have less propolis, because it´s easier to work them, it must be a trait to be supported in future.
Propolis is harvested in high amounts here, I never understood the beekeepers taking away the bee`s self produced medication.
Must be the high profit.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

SiWolKe said:


> The moment you open a hive and the propolis is sticky you know they are preparing for future medication or brood and hive protection.
> The propolis dry, they just now are content.


I always thought consistency was relative to temperature. I know it gets awfully sticky in the hot humid summer. Interesting. 



> The AMM have double quantity of propolis than the Carnicas.


I've heard tales that AMM liked to propolize quite a bit, at least the hybrids from days past here. Sounds like from most of your recent observations the AMM might be the ones to keep an eye on for making increase.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Nope, I like to see the carnis X Caucasian bees. The Caucasians are the most heavily propolized 
bees that I've read about. No pure Caucasian bees here just the carnis mutt in. One seller on ebay
has them on queen rearing days. Could it be that they can survive with the mites too? Late summer is
when I saw the most sticky propolis in the hives. Perhaps it is for dealing with the high mite level at that time.
I used to go in to scraped the propolis off the side bars near the top to fit the frames tighter together.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Nordak said:


> I always thought consistency was relative to temperature. I know it gets awfully sticky in the hot humid summer. Interesting.
> I've heard tales that AMM liked to propolize quite a bit, at least the hybrids from days past here. Sounds like from most of your recent observations the AMM might be the ones to keep an eye on for making increase.


People say that but I see what I see. It changes with stress conditions.
Inside the hive how could temperature change so much? They climate. The propolis is mostly on top of my frames or in central broodnest frames.
Either they forage when they are in need or they make it sticky with water or chew it with wax. 

I don´t know about the AMM yet because winter is starting now and I have yet to see if they survive. But I know for sure that I destroyed those which are on two deep winter arrangement. 
One AMM is on two deeps and still alive but not loud like the others.:doh:
Hope they used all the propolis they could gather to seal themselves in.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Here propolis changes with temperature mostly - and availability as the bees aren't out foraging for fresh raw material during the winter and what's already in the hives gradually dries out.

I see no correlation between bees under stress (vs "content" bees) and the physical state of the propolis in the hive. But then I think all my bees, being well-housed, well-fed and well-treated for the only health issue I have to deal with (mites) are generally pretty "content" anyway. "Content" or not, they meet other more quantifiable criteria for thriving, being productive, and staying alive year after year, without fail.

When making up a new stack for a split I try to give it at least one old, but recently occupied, box that has a nice start of propolis. 

And I routinely save all the bits of propolis that come off the walls and frames during inspections and return them to the hive on a little tray I set on the top of the frames in a corner. My bees (in warm temps, but not in winter) will quickly recycle what I leave for them. 

I have no idea what their genetic origins may be, as they are all swarm-mutts, or the open-mated daughters and granddaughters of my original queens. My bees seem a bit darker, and somewhat smaller in body size, than the commercially-produced bees my students seem to have in their hives, at least when they first start out.

Enj.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

enjambres said:


> My bees seem a bit darker, and somewhat smaller in body size, than the commercially-produced bees my students seem to have in their hives, at least when they first start out.


Thanks Enjambres. Do you find they propolize more than your students bees as well, or have you noticed any significant difference?


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

You don´t see this propolis changing much in treated hives from one day to the next, maybe because they have no such crisis like tf bees, which have to fight their own fights.

I´ve seen treated hives in bee class and with my friends, with thriving bees without any propolis because it was harvested or scraped away.
No problem then for the bees.
Some who press their foundations put propolis into the wax. I don´t know if it helps with health.

In my area there are many possibilities right in front of the entrance to forage and if the temperature rises above 8°C I see bees carrying propolis even in winter. Before there is pollen.
I don´t need to give them any, even the carnis have enough. But they don´t use it like the AMM do and have less.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

@Nordak,

Well, my students' bees tend to be younger colonies of invariably commercially-produced bees (I only teach first and second year beekeepers) where as my mutt girls stay in their permanent boxes year after year, so they tend to have more propolized spaces. 

My own mentor thinks at least one of my queen lines is too propolis-y and not worth propagating from for that reason. He has two daughters from that line, though, and I don't recall him complaining about it in his yard. (And I've seen his gnarly boxes, so I take that criticism with a grain of salt.) 

I don't particularly care that Fern seems to make more than the others as I am still just observing them all. She's also boy-crazy, too, tolerating drones very late into the fall, and usually has dozens all winter. That ought to make her more vulnerable to reappearances of mites, after treatment, but it doesn't seem to for some reason I can't fathom. (I still watch her extra carefully, for that.) Since the original queen Fern was superceded this summer it will be interesting to see if these traits persist in the four open-mated daughters I have.

@SiWolke:

You wrote: 

"maybe because they have no such crisis like tf bees, which have to fight their own fights." 

This is precisely why I am not TF, because I can not keep them TF without them suffering repeated crisises. And I don't see the point of unneccessary, completely avoidable, misery of any creature under my care. 

One of the sources (spruce trees) here of propolis is close by (less than a couple of meters away), but I am in a very cold area and I would be surprised if they bother gathering new supplies during our harsh winters when they often don't leave the hive (even to poop) for 5 to 6 weeks at a time, occasionally for a couple of months on end. 

I don't supplement their propolis, I am just careful not to carelessly remove it, and if I dislodge it, I leave it for them on a little cardboard tray tucked into a back corner. I figure it has taken many countless wing beats to gather it, so why wantonly waste their considerable efforts?

My, admittedly unusual, approach to my bees is to be thoughtful of where I am interfering in their self-designed arrangements and do as little of that as I can, while also mitigating the natural (or unnatural, in the case of varroa) stressors for tropical insects who find themselves living in the far north. I have no illusions that I could possibly be breeding special super-bees that could overcome unusually difficult odds. My bees arrived here by their own choice. I hive swarms, and then look after them the best I can manage. I am quite content that they appear to be thriving and staying alive, year after year, despite the fact that most years beekeepers (both TF and non-TF) in my area lose something like 40% of their colonies annually. 

Honestly, if I didn't have a way to effectively control varroa parasitism, and all the ensuing difficulties that result from it, my bees would long since have perished. And I would have long-since stopped keeping bees for my own delight and pleasure. I could not justify the bees' endless suffering merely so I could "be a beekeeper". (Much as I love doing that.)

Enj.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Enj. you don´t have to justify your beekeeping, I know from the advise you give in this forum that you probably are a "Bienenflüsterer", that means, someone who really knows about bees 
That not cynical, believe me. I always enjoy your posts.

Please accept my own approach to beekeeping.
I´m too often called a person to be cruel to my bees and don´t want to explain me again.

The endless discussions and competitions! No! We are all bee enthusiasts. 
My aim is, just like you, to have zero losses, in spite of tf. Much work to be done !

What I love about tf is the way bees learn to defend themselves if kept natural and to feel joy about this.
What I hate are my mistakes or them dying. But it was my decision to do tf and now I will go on trying.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

What I get tired of, and I noticed JWC has edited his post, is someone can't ask a simple question without this turning into a debate. All I wanted to know was what level of propolis production was the community seeing in their hives. Enjambres, thank you for your reply. You are clearly an asset to the community and probably 10x the beekeeper I am. I've noticed you come across at times, whether you mean to or not, very passive aggressive. Guess who else hasn't lost a colony? Me, and probably a lot more 3-5 year beeks. I don't credit myself for it, I think I've got some great bees that are probably good at fixing some of my mistakes. I'm in a good geographical area to supply my bees with what they need. Lots going in my favor. Siwolke has made her intentions clear, and you have as well. Let's stop this back and forth please. Nothing good ever comes of it. Thanks.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I apologize for my part in this, Nordak.
Such an interesting topic!
Let´s try again.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

since it came up, and for the benefit of our newer members, here's a few excerpts pertaining to how the treatment free subforum is intended to work...

from the forum page, under the subtitle 'treatment-free beekeeping':

"Discussing and formulating honeybee management methods that cooperate as much as possible with natural bee biology without resorting to the use of chemicals and drugs."

from the tf subforum sticky thread 'unique forum rules':

"Welcome to the Treatment-Free Beekeeping forum. This is the place to discuss and promote all topics related to treatment free beekeeping...

It is a forum with the stated purpose of discussing how to keep bees by letting them cope with disease on their own...

This forum is for those who wish to discuss Treatment-Free Beekeeping, not for them to be required to defend it...

Do not impugn their motives, do not question their skills, and do not use pejoratives..."




enjambres said:


> I don't see the point of unneccessary, completely avoidable, misery of any creature under my care...
> 
> I could not justify the bees' endless suffering merely so I could "be a beekeeper".


i'm with the others enj with respect to the valuable contributions you make to beesource, but i think comments like these whether you intend them to be or not are contrary to what barry had in mind when he created the subforum. to be honest i had to look up 'perjorative' to see what it means. i don't think it's too much of a stretch to take your comments as having negative connotations not so much to any specific person, but with regard to the tf approach in general.

we're not talking censorship here, just the opportunity to have a little breathing room, please.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

My TF feral survivors were trapped/caught swarms in a 20 mile radius. They are all different. I have some that do all kinds of propolis and some not much. I have read the studies and tried to take note if any of the heavy propolis bees were any better off. Have not noticed any differences.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Not sure if there is a correlation, but some of my longest survivors have a high propensity to properlize everything, especially there entrances. It is one of the traits that I select for. In addition, there is a great market for it, & who doesn't love tonics


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

strictly anecdotal, but for what it's worth...

my longest lived colony is now into its 8th winter. it was the only one of 6 colonies orphaned on my property in late 2009 to survive the following year. that colony had more propolis in its hive that first year than i have seen in any hive since then.

my only loss so far this winter (definitely mite related) is a colony that i had already noted as being a very light propolizer. i found virtually no propolis in the hive when i brought it in for inspection after it died out.

here's an older post by jwchestnut looking at the possibility that southern pine and other trees may have something beneficial in their resin:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...sis-of-two-EO-on-control-of-Varroa-identified


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Hey square and you guys. I would like to say that the way I use this forum could cause and has caused me to not realize what forum I am in. I know it is easy to look at the forum heading and figure it out but I usually go to "todays post and look at what is new from there. I have missed that I was in the warre section and the top bar section and I am sure the treatment free section. These things have been pointed out to me and that is fine because it is usually my sloppyness that caused it to happen. I stay interested in all the above and don't want to miss any of it. This is not a defence of anyone or a slight to anyone else but more of an apoligy in advance for the next time I just go from the todays post menue with out paying attention. 

I believe way back in abby warre times that one of his veiws in his book that put his hive above others was the not breaking the seals and the fact that the chamber was propolized is one of the things he thought that made his hive healther for bees. Maby more of a non movable frame type thing but popolas was mentioned. I realize this is only antidotal and not a studie.
Cheers
gww


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I have medium to light propolis bees, a few may be deemed on the heavy side, but the other question is, 'is all propolis equal?' Perhaps just like with Manuka honey, perhaps some sap's would provide more antimicrobial propolis than others.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

JRG13 said:


> I have medium to light propolis bees, a few may be deemed on the heavy side, but the other question is, 'is all propolis equal?' Perhaps just like with Manuka honey, perhaps some sap's would provide more antimicrobial propolis than others.


exactly. so in addition to how nectars and pollens vary from location to location, one would expect the chemistry of the propolis to do so as well. i'm guessing all of these factors are playing a measurable role in why survival is easier in some places as compared to others.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Sibylle, no need to apologize. I didn't see that you did anything wrong, just giving your observations. 

I too have some varying degrees of propolis production between bees. One reason I gave up screen bottoms was the bees did their best to propolize a good portion of the surface. I have one hive that is about 50% covered on the bottom, about where the brood nest starts expands to. These are the same bees I see light patches of propolis from on the outside of the hive where the wood is roughed up a bit. Thanks all for your responses.

SP, that's an interesting observation. I think there is enough evidence of the potential benefits for me to start selecting toward propolis producing colonies. I have pine trees in my yard, and I've noticed them collecting from the trees before. Last year, there was a day where you'd have sworn they were foraging on them they were pretty thick with bees. I didn't really notice that this year. 

JRG, you make a great point. I think the research points that way as well, that not all propolis is created equal.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Nordak said:


> I too have some varying degrees of propolis production between bees. One reason I gave up screen bottoms was the bees did their best to propolize a good portion of the surface. I have one hive that is about 50% covered on the bottom, about where the brood nest starts expands to. These are the same bees I see light patches of propolis from on the outside of the hive where the wood is roughed up a bit.
> 
> SP, that's an interesting observation. I think there is enough evidence of the potential benefits for me to start selecting toward propolis producing colonies.


My bees have been using a lot of propolis at least for 20 years, but during my varroa resistance breeding program I have not seen any change in average. Massive propolis using seems to be a quality of bees, which pops up every now and then in ceratain colonies. These colonies make lumps of propolis under the bottombars, on the ends of top bars or they start to regulate the entrances with it. 

A new phenomen is that some colonies stick little dots of propolis all over bottom. This might be a quality inherited from Primorski queens, just a guess.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Juhani Lunden said:


> This might be a quality inherited from Primorski queens, just a guess.


Thanks for sharing your experience Juhani. I think your guess sounds like a good one. Some of my bees have very Russian like traits from what I've read behaviorally speaking. I've recently heard of a beekeeper within 7-8 miles that's kept Russian bees for well over 10 years. I suspect some of his escapees might have contributed to the local gene pool as he's the only beekeeper around that I definitively know of in my general vicinity. I need to get out more and find out exactly what's going on in my surroundings regarding bees.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

I can't see any reason why propolis would anything but localized. With more studies being done, I would think that at some time in the near future (power of positive thinking we will see some meaningful data regarding specific flora attributes. As is always the case, once anything is found to contribute to the health of the honey bee, as with any & all humankind is involved with, there will be new products on the market to feed your bees needs for making propolis. Which in mho would be risky at best until we know why some bees thrive in one flora region but not another. And why can't bees be just like other wild creatures & forage for whatever flora that the colony needs at the time? Great topic, Nordak. Just a shame it took the near total collapse of the species before such in depth research by scholars & laymen alike was to become a reality.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Juhani Lunden said:


> These colonies make lumps of propolis under the bottombars, on the ends of top bars or they start to regulate the entrances with it.
> A new phenomen is that some colonies stick little dots of propolis all over bottom. This might be a quality inherited from Primorski queens, just a guess.


Juhani, is the use of propolis a criteria of selection to you?


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Marla Spivak article on propolis. Note the thick propolis on the comb that touches the wall. 








Marla Spivak, Benefits of propolis
http://immenfreunde.de/forum/download/file.php?id=2173


One of my bee trees/bee gums: 


















With frames there is no comb touching the wall. Also smooth hive walls reduce the need to propolize while rough surfaces trigger propolis collection. 

Tom Seeley highlights that there are thick propolis envelopes found in wild bee trees. Bees are enveloped in propolis.

Some studies:

Apitherapy News*
Bees Bring in More Propolis When Faced with Fungal Threat
Posted:*04 Apr 2012 10:00 PM PDT
Bees ‘Self-Medicate’ When Infected with Some Pathogens North Carolina State University, 3/30/2012 Newswise — Research from North Carolina State University shows that honey bees “self-medicate” when their colony is infected with a harmful fungus, bringing in increased amounts of antifungal plant resins to ward off the pathogen. “The colony is willing to expend the energy and effort of its*

http://apitherapy.blogspot.de/2012/04/bees-bring-in-more-propolis-when-faced.html

http://apitherapy.blogspot.de/2014/01/honey-pollen-stores-significantly.html

_The results indicated that non-tolerant colonies collected more resin than the tolerant ones. The percentage of four biologically active compounds – caffeic acid and pentenyl caffeates – was higher in propolis from tolerant colonies. The results of this study pave the way to understanding the effect of propolis in individual and social immunity of the honeybees. Further studies are needed to clarify the relationship between propolis chemical composition and honeybee colony health._
aus: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786419.2014.881366#.U75CArEtKM8

*The varroacidal action of propolis: a laboratory assay*
Assegid Garedew, Ingolf Lamprecht, Erik Schmolz, Burkhard Schricker
Apidologie 33 (2002) 41–50
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/file/index/docid/891682/filename/hal-00891682.pdf


*Major Honey Bee Health Problem with Particular Emphasis to Anti-Varroa Investigation of Propolis in Toke-Kutaye District, Ethiopia*

Antivarroa investigation of propolis as through bio assay revealed that the length of narcosis and rate of mortality of varroa dependence on the concentration of propolis used, the duration of contact time and the origins of propolis. Thus, treatment with a 20%, propolis solution in 55%ethanol resulted in 100% mortality rate at a contact time of 5s regardless of the origins of the propolis. However, treatment with 5% of propolis (Eastern hararge) narcosis lasted from 37.8 ± 4.41% to 30 ± 5% at 5s and 10s contact times respectively and 100% mortal at 20s contact time. 
http://idosi.org/aejsr/11(5)16/1.pdf

From my own experience I can report, that the survivor hives all had tons of propolis. See one example of a survivor:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_qdElx-D8Q and note the propolis. I also see treatment free hives crashing faster on young, fresh comb in a new hive. While in an established hive, with lots of dark old comb and tons of propolis bees survive better. I think propolis helps reducing all pathogens including mites. 

Bernhard


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

A wealth of good information there Bernhard. Much thanks for it. I look forward to reading up on all the studies, watching the video. You bring up a great point about propolis being mixed with wax. If it were to help, certainly it would help in the comb probably most of all. Your observation of old brood comb warrants note in that it might not be best to practice cull measures if indeed propolis is as beneficial as it appears to be.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

SiWolKe said:


> Juhani, is the use of propolis a criteria of selection to you?


No, never have.


Bernhard: Whos hive is it in the video?

Topbar ends look just like mine


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks, Bernhard.
My thoughts were it is important but now I see how much. It´s not easy to work a hive with much stringy propolis, but I feel joy when I see this.


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