# TV reports / public



## rjshimmel (Oct 16, 2003)

Hi All,
At out monthy meeting yesterday we heard a report from a beekeeper selling honey at a flea market. People at the market were asking about the safety of honey, due to the mite problems. Has anyone else had these type of questions, since the reports on mite have aired on national tv?


----------



## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

I just tell 'em mites and honey compare to fleas and cattle...what's inside isn't affected by what's on the outside.

BubbaBob


----------



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

The person may have been refering to the residual chemicals present if chemcals like Apistan or Checkmite are used to control mites.

If you do not use them and use alternatives for mite control....... this question becomes an opening to sell your honey.


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Even if you DO use them, you still have an
opening to sell your honey. Facts never
hurt anyone, and truth is the best salesman.

Easy to say that the miticides are only used
when supers are off, and used per the EPA
instructions, which meet the needs of both
the EPA and the FDA to classify the honey
as perfectly safe.


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Easy to say that the miticides are only used
when supers are off, and used per the EPA
instructions, which meet the needs of both
the EPA and the FDA to classify the honey
as perfectly safe. 

And hopefully the customer won't know that the bees will move contaminated honey and wax around in the hive.


----------



## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

That's why avoiding chemicals will put you in the driver's seat when it comes to marketing and pricing. ALL NATURAL, from chemical free hives! Use drone traps... see Dyce Lab's (Cornell Univ) recent comments on the effectiveness of this part of IPM strategy. Also use screened bottom boards, powdered sugar, etc. At least I don't have to worry about contamination in the hive.


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Oh boy, DRONE COMB TRAPPING!!

Just what I need to add to our idyllic schedule,
a task that must be completed within a very
narrow timeframe window on a large number of
hives, and if not completed within the timeframe
each and every time, makes matters much WORSE!

The Dyce lab needs to tell us how this approach
will scale to hundreds or thousands of hives
before they waste any more time touting it as
"effective" for anyone other than the smallest
of hobby operations. Sorry to be so blunt, but
I did not go to Cornell, I went to that small
trade school across the river from Harvard,
where "does it scale?" is perhaps a more
commonly-asked question.









My guess is that a significant percentage of
even hobbyist hives equipped with drone comb
will not be serviced within the proper timeframe,
and will have much higher varroa populations
as a result. It reminds me of a game my sons
played on an Atari 2600 called "KaBoom". I
forget what you had to do, but if you did not do
it in time, the bomb "exploded" and you lost.

Let this be a warning - anything that depends on
the beekeeper doing it TODAY will be forgotten by
the hobbyists, and will be a logistical nightmare
for the pros.


----------



## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Drone brood trapping is an effective method for getting mites out of hives. Certainly the frames need to be removed prior to drones emerging, but it isn't that difficult to set up a schedule.


----------



## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

Thanks for the positive comments Dick. Now Jim, I don't know of the "Trade School" you mention since BU and BC are across the river. If you are referring to MIT... We'll anyone smart enough to attend MIT knows it's not across the river. Both are on the Cambridge side.

As far a scaleability, heck yes it's scaleable. It just depends on your style of work. I like to be efficient and work smarter, not harder. Let's do the math... (that's 'rithmatic for you trade school guys). Since I get $3.50-$7.00 / pound (wholesale/retail) due to the fact that my honey is all natural and comes from chemical-free hives, I would have to work at least twice the number of hives to get the same sales revenue. And since twice the hives mean twice the expense (twice the equipment, time, queens, vehicle expenses, etc. Along with big expenses for miticides), my profits are easily three times what they would be working double the hives! Hmmm... half the work using drone traps and other natural methods, vs using all the poisons. Seems like an easy decision to me.


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Both are on the Cambridge side.

Perhaps a map would help you.
http://www.map.harvard.edu/ 

Harvard Stadium (the only part of Harvard worth
visiting, as they certainly do have some good
teams) is across the river. 

While there are some buildings on the Cambridge
side where doctors and lawyers are educated, the
infamous Harvard Business school, where MBAs and
other stooges and henchmen of the military-industrial
complex are indoctrinated are also on the
"Boston" (Allston, actually) side of the river.
(In the area bounded by Mass Ave, Soldiers Field Rd,
and Western Ave, as I recall, but perhaps they
have expanded - I haven't been back to Boston
in years.)

So, those who flunk out of a real school "cross 
the river" and go get themselves an MBA.


----------



## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

> ...the
> infamous Harvard Business school, where MBAs and
> other stooges and henchmen of the military-industrial
> complex are indoctrinated...


C'mon Jim, tell us how you really feel.


----------



## jalal (Sep 2, 2004)

i hope you can find organic nectar for your organic hives.

maybe you can put your hives back in the trees too, please.

*hugs and kisses hippies*


----------



## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Scaleable, drone trapping, not in the real world. With 150 hives and Nicks reccommendations I would have 300 drone frames I would have to pull and freeze twice every 45 days or so. (am I right on this?) I would need to have 30 empty deeps plus 300 replacement frames to transport the comb back and forth. Never mind the labor to open and the disturbance to hives at outyards, killed queens from excessive manipulations, lost honey production, pulled supers, time to brush off frames etc. I would then have to freeze the combs which means I would have to pull all my frozen comb honey and about 150 lbs of raw pollen from my honey house freezer as well as some maple syrup and then fit about 1/2 the frames in the freezer at a time or buy a 2nd freezer to dedicate just to this 1 IPM method. After cycling the frames through the freezer I would have to get the frames back into the supers before the dead larvae start to rot and become putrid since I could not keep them frozen for 30 days due to space. Then my hives could expend the incredible amount of energy to clean out those cells. I also have to beleive that introducing large numbers of dead rotting flesh into a hive is un-natural and un-healthy in the long run. I would suggest that with only a small investment at risk and 2 years of beekeeping since varroa has become prevelant that Mr. Krouse is speaking more from a theoretical point than one of experiance. I fully agree and support his goal of natural control. We aren't there yet. As to $7.00/lb for honey my hats off to you. I drive 500 miles a week to NYC Greenmarket to sell honey as I have been in every market upstate including Farm Markets, events, chain store retail, food coops, and individual sales. (as have others I know who have drooped out)and don't beleive there is any market group paying that amount in any quantity. If I tried to sell them honey for $7.00/ lb they'd run me (or you) out of Town on a rail. Syracuse must have very large population of very discerning honey consumers. Perhaps you are selling small amounts at those prices to support your hobby. If so that's great. As far as Cornell's Program and theory (which I spent a considerable time in the 90's to support the re-funding of Dyce Lab) don't even get me started. I like Nick but they need to step out of acadamia for a season and hire (or at least consult) with a real beekeeper to give some perspective to what they are doing. I think there is a great dedication to solving problems but a lack of perspective at Dyce. There are a whole host of natural controls available that are managable on a large scale, drone trapping isn't one of them.


----------



## John Smith (Jan 31, 2006)

Hi Guys,
Just reading some old posts.
Where is this Cambridge River?
.......Just kiddn,.

About this Organic/Chemical free thing.

I helped make this theme popular, yep, was all but a hippie myself, with organic gardening, etc.
Still a health food fan (and shop owner) and run some 400 hives of bees in Australia.
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT
When it came time to register my operation for the queen's approval and I looked through the rule book, I nearly puked.

The speci was so pittifully amatuerish in its approach, I would have had to make a total liar out of myself to sign off the declaration! I preferred to sell my honey on its own merits and my own reputation than prostitute my honor just to get the queen to say I was now OK...... uhh, Organic.

Show me some honey that isn't organic.
Show me some honey that say's it is under licence, and I will tell you that those who signed off on it either haven't read the rules, don't feel any need to abide by them or have a very low IQ. All three could apply.

It is a timely marketing ploy, and I wish the promoters of Organic Honey God's Speed, but I don't need them to license me to do what they can't. I will keep my own conscience clear, thank you.

The word Organic will soon go to that file where the word 'Bio-degradable" went. As you know, Plutonium is bio-degradable in 500 years.

Meanwhile, intelligent people just keep on buying honey and the organic theme may help us push up the price a bit. We may even catch up with inflation eventually (maybe as it makes its crash back down again) especially if this hibernation diet gets a fair airing.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Hey Joel, et al. No extra comb and no freezing is necassary to use drone trapping as part of your mite management program. IPM, if you want to call it that.

A good friend of mine carrys a long bladed knife with him, while working his 800 to 1200 colonies. Whenever he gets down to the brood nest,usually every time he works the hive, he pulls out the green drone frames or those that he has painted white top bars. Then he cuts the drones heads off and taps the drones and mite out onto the ground.

No scientific studies have been done to determine effectiveness, yet. But he thinks that it helps. Other than adding a little time to the colony manipulation, it doesn't cost much.

This is not the only thing that he does. Just one thing.

Maybe Nick and Peter Borst should test this method, to see if they find any benefit.

Say ekrouse, wanna buy some chem free honey for $1.50 per lb? I've got tons. Think you could move it for me?

My label says HONEY. I would think that any refernce to Chemical Free would just unnecassarily worry the consumer. If folks ask, I tell. Otherwise, all most folks want to know is is it Honey.


----------

