# Solar fencer ? for Bears



## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

I actually got this one as mentioned above on sale at menards for $55 I think and I have pondered getting this and a small twelve volt battery and a $30-40 solar panel and making my own solar fencer. Anyone ever go that route to get more bang for your buck. You could get pretty serous if you wanted.

http://www.fishock.com/store/electric-fence-charger/ss-2000x


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## spieker (Jun 26, 2009)

I started with the SS-440. Found that when we had extended cloudy or rainy days, that the charge would decrease and the pulse would slow down. I could hold onto the wire. 

Since I was always worried about my bees, I bought the SS-2000X. It is reliable. 

The bear has stayed out with both of the above fencers, but I am much happier with the SS-2000X.


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## Gord (Feb 8, 2011)

It takes more punch to run 10 miles of wire than 10 acres worth of wire.
The one you had last year sounds like a dandy.
Mine will run 35 miles of wire; my Dad has a Gallagher that will run 100 miles of wire; it's worthy of respect.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Bears are VERY persistent. 

Not sure if you have line power or not but if you do, I would recommend a 100 mile charger. This may seem like huge overkill but some animals are willing to take the shock to get through the fence. Our goats are such animals. 

The 10 mile fence charger did not even phase them. They just walked right through the fence and took the shock. I moved up to a 50 mile charge which they were STILL willing to take the shock to get out. After I installed the Zareba 100 mile charge on our 8 acre paddock, the goat did their regular attempt to get through the fence. This time she got more than she was bargaining for.......she stuck her nose up to the fence and when here nose got within about a 1/2 of the wire, a spark jumped across the wire to her nose and about knocked her down. 

Now I just plug in the fence periodically to remind them. I hate to do this but it is far more acceptable than them getting out and wondering into the road and getting hit or causing a car wreck.

I am confident a similar reaction will be obtained from even the most persistent bear. A 6 joule thump will get just about any animal's attention and respect. Just remember to unplug it before you touch the fence. You will only do this ONCE. 

My fence controller pegs the fence voltage tester at 9.9kv. I think it puts out between 12 and 14kv. At least on my 8 acre paddock it does. Be sure to use a good grounding rod and preferably more than one. 

http://www.amazon.com/Zareba-A100LI-Electric-Impedance-Controller/dp/B001043JAI

Zareba fence controllers are more affordable but don't last as long as some others such as Gallagher. Gallagher fence charges are real nice units that use a MUCH larger discharge capacitor but cost a lot more. They are worth it in the long run as they hold up better in my opinion. 

http://www.gallagherusa.com/electric-fencing/energizer.overview.aspx

If solar powered is you only option:

http://www.gallagherusa.com/electric-fencing/permanent.components.aspx?mktcatid=68

I like the 7 joules battery powered model. You could rig up a solar battery charger and run the fence controller off of a heavy duty battery. 

None of these option is inexpensive but am confident they will work. How much are your hives, bees, and equipment worth?


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Screw Zareba. I own/owned one Zareba and will never buy another. I fought with it for weeks trying more and deeper ground rods, pouring water around ground rods ect. I finally took it back to farm and fleet for a replacement and they would not give me one. They said they had to send it in (to china or something) and my only option was to buy another one if I wanted a fencer while I waited. Thats when I bought the one from Menards which worked like a charm. Im going to get a solar panel for it so I dont have to worry about a good charge all the time. For another four or five hundred bucks Im leaning on buying a couple pairs of good DC chargers, Marine batteries, and Solar Panels for other yards.

I want more knock down power like you say. The solar fencer I got from USDA got me a couple times and Im not really impressed. For about two or three hundred bucks a yard Ill make any bear run to suckle on mama.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

I have tried a few over the years and Parmak http://www.parmak.com/ is my brand of choice. They are very reliable and they have great support. I have one that has been running 3 years non-stop. I watch eBay and buy used ones and then ship then to Parmak for repair, It can be a lot cheaper that buying a new one. Occasionally (once a month or so) there is a guy in Texas that puts up a new one for $125 on eBay. I've bought one from him for a client and it was perfectly fine. 

As far as fence, if it is a permanent yard, I drive T post in the ground and run 3 strands of wire. For temp yards I use the push in plastic posts with 2 or 3 runs of the string line. They key is to bait the wire by hanging strips of #8 hardware cloth with peanut butter on the wire. Without bait, they will just plow through the fence and be insulated by their fur. With the bait, they get nailed on the nose or tongue and never come back. I've had 4 bear in my yard at one time, and the only hive they got was a nuc I had in my garden that was only protected by 8ft high fencing. They ripped right through the fence. I had a trailer with 8 full hives about 10 ft away protected by the temporary electric fence and they never touched them. They also tore the door off my chicken coop to get at the feed, and were back every night, until I put a single baited strand of electric wire around the chicken coop, never had a problem since.

I also use the non-solar parmak's and power them with a standard 12V wall wart with no problem. For the 6v ones I just use a couple dollar voltage regulator. I also have converted a non-solar unit to solar by putting a $20 car solar panel on top and using a 12V car battery.

I have never had a lightning issue with the parmak's like I did with most other brands. I also had bad luck with the Zareba solar units, if they weren't in direct sunlight for 8 hours a day, they would not get enough charge to continue working. I have had the parmak's go weeks with the solar panel covered with snow and still work.

There are some other high end units out there like gallagher that I have no experience with.



BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Grizbee (Sep 23, 2009)

I am a fan of Premier fence and their 20B intellishock, you can get the solar charger option, but I use the 10 month dry cell battery and replace anually for $35 or when it runs down. this unit has fence and battery check buttons and it does keep bears out, with a good ground post thats essential, I also connect a ground barb wire at the bottom on the ground wrapped around each T-post, this stops the bear from digging under and extra ground poke if it trys to slip under the bottom hot wire. you won't regret buying this unit,and this company will trouble shoot, over the phone, when you are in the beeyard


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## Myron Denny (Sep 27, 2009)

Somewhere on electric fencing against bears it was suggested using wiremesh panels laying on the ground as the ground. The person wrote that from experience said it will work! If the bear is actually standing on the ground you can be sure the hot wire will get his attention!


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## Grizbee (Sep 23, 2009)

Yep chicken wire is cheap compared to a couple beehives


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Im sure if you spend enough you can get a nice solar fencer that packs a punch and will send a 10 year old boar runin for mama but with those little 6v batteries I dont trust them when you get crapy cloudy weather for long periods. I feel a lot safer with a 12 volt Marine battery and a fencer that I am scared to get drilled by myself. The only thing that sucks about this situation is having to keep them charged. As I mentioned I was leaning on making my own solar fencer and I believe I can come up with a better system that packs a bigger punch with more reliability and a longer life span (if I didnt use those exact words then here they are now).

I have made up my mind and this is the system I am going to build in three yards.

*Fencer:* At Menards on sale for *$60-65* I think last time I was there this last weekend or so
http://www.fishock.com/store/electric-fence-charger/ss-2000x

*Battery:* At Farm and fleet for *$57*. I am not possitive but I think this is the same one I own and have been using for three years and still takes a good charge after draining dry many times. Left it all winter drained and it sucked up another good charge. I am very happy with it for the money I paid. If It is hooked up to a solar panel and does not lose its charge I think it would last five maybe even ten years.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/product...html?lref=/catalog/find.aspx?t=marine+battery

*Solar Panel:* At Amazon and ships free for *$60* its a Instapark™ 15W Mono-crystalline Solar Panel and comes with a controller. Suposedly it still has 80% charging power after 25 years. I think this should keep a good charge on the above battery. 
http://www.amazon.com/Instapark-99-15W-Mono-crystalline-Solar-Panel/dp/B004FX10ES

I will still charge the batteries every once in a while at the farm but I sure will have a lot more peace of mind once I have this set up going. I stress about it all the time. I got hit twice by bears last year and once you get hit you never stop worrying about it.

Total is $177 plus tax and worth every penny for the peace of mind it will bring me.

Ill also be redoing my fences. Im going to go with five strands of barb wire, Wood corner posts, and a wire in the ground beneath the fence all the way around attached to the ground of the the fencer to insure anything that comes in contact with the fence completes the circuit as good as possible. I did quite a bit of reading this winter and I did not realize that when you get shocked from a fence the electricity actually flows from the positive on the fencer through you and all the way back to the ground (negative) on the fencer. I always thought whatever touched the fence just needed to be grounded to the ground beneath your feet to get the shock but its is truly you completing the circuit from the fencers positive all the way back to the negative on the fencer. I still find this crazy cause some fences run for miles and the electricity has to flow all the way back through the ground back to the fencer!! Seems crazy. So a wire in the ground right beneath the fence it self connected to the negative of the fencer should give you about as hot of a fence as you can get. Anybody want to come grab a hold of my fence to test it for me when Im done?


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

I'm with Jim 134 on this one. I have a 6 volt solar parmak. It's been in my yard for a year and a half and let me tell you, i still would not touch it. The tester I used still shows 9Kv out put to the grounded stock wire fence. there's deffinate bears around my beeyards too and was hit once about 2 years ago. last year, as i was working my beeyard, i heard cracking sounds coming from a cherry tree a couple of meters away and there was a bear up in it eating the cherries. I was glad I could depend on the parmak to do it's job.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Im sure the parmaks are good. I will just feel safer. Ive laid out the new fence im building at the farm on paper and I know im going overboard on it as well. The yard is intended to be there for many years so Im making a permanent fence that hopefully will not need any maintenance for many years, including the fencer.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Here's a tip if your intrested. We run bees up into the fireweed deep in bear country. we put the bees on gravel landings and of course the ground is much to dry at that time of year to get a good solid ground. What we do to achieve maximun ground is to lay a 2 feet wide chicken wire 6 inches away around the perimeter of the fence grounded to the fencer. when the bear comes snooping, he'll be have at least one paw on the grounded chicken wire when he touches the live wire.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Well I got this thing set up now and I have to say Im very happy with it. I can tell the difference just by the sound of it. Before you could tell the fence was getting weak as it snapped with less juice. Now it sounds like I just pulled the battery off of the charger. I will post some pics soon. I have to work on getting a better ground yet but Ill do that when I do a makeover on the fence.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Marine batteries are not the best choice for a solar setup. Marine batteries are designed to be drawn down and recharge, not maintained at full charge. In a solar setup the battery life is greatly reduced.

Source: School of Hard Knocks

A good alternative battery is the Parmak 12V gel battery.


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

My neighbor has a mining battery grnded and a coil attatched to lashing wire run around a field has livestock in. It has so much current it will near knock a full grown cow down. He also has his bee yard surrounded by it no bears there. You can do the same thing with a deep cycle battery you just have to charge it every 3 months and keep high grass off of it. Cost was low and it is devastateing effects. Calves usually squirt everywhere their 1st and only time they get hit. Full grown cows avoid it at all cost. Never tested it myself he uses hot hands gloves like they use with the power companies.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

To be clear I have deep cycle batteries. The battery I posted is not the one I bought when I got to farm and fleet. I ended up with a 70 amp hours at 20 amps deep cycle battery which at .9 amps/hour used from fencer theoretically would last about 60 days. There is a difference between a Marine and Deep cycle even though many think they are the same and many Marine batteries are labeled deep cycle Marine or Vice versa . Im not trying to get into a technical battle here but after reading this:

"Marine batteries are not the best choice for a solar setup. Marine batteries are designed to be drawn down and recharge, not maintained at full charge. In a solar setup the battery life is greatly reduced.

Source: School of Hard Knocks"
-
I was truly worried after reading that but I think you may have your information wrong Allen, maybe not but from what I have read I believe I am much better off either way than I was because I will not be draining batteries over half or almost dead, leaving dead, and being left on charger for days until I return to the farm etc after I have read the following. Im not saying the battery you recommend would not be better, Just that I am more than happy with what I have now. I am on my third year with a deep cycle battery that has been tortured with all the do nots and still is kicking strong. If a deep cycle has lasted this long with all the rules broken, I know/believe I at least will double the life span of my batteries. That in the end is insignificant to me because what really counts is a always hot fencer and a bear with a empty stomach. 

Here is what I base my statements from:

Below quotes from; http://www.streetmusician.co.uk/batteryguide/ 
"Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged by up to 80% of their initial capacity, but in reality, no battery should ever be discharged by more than 50% of it’s rating on a regular basis, even if it is a deep cycle.

Once you drain a deep cycle battery to below 20% of it’s capacity, it’s inner structure is compromised and life span is considerably shortened. See the notes on depth of discharge (DOD) below to see how a battery’s lifecycle greatly depends on the depth at which it is regularly discharged."

"A battery that is discharged by only 10% each time it’s used, will have a life span of up to 5 times as long as a battery that’s been discharged to a depth of 50% each cycle.

Although deep cycle batteries are designed to withstand regular discharge cycles of up to 80%, the same battery discharged by only 50% will have nearly double the life span of one exposed to a DOD of 80%."

“Cycles vs Life

A battery "cycle" is one complete discharge and recharge cycle. It is usually considered to be discharging from 100% to 20%, and then back to 100%. However, there are often ratings for other depth of discharge cycles, the most common ones are 10%, 20%, and 50%. You have to be careful when looking at ratings that list how many cycles a battery is rated for unless it also states how far down it is being discharged. For example, one of the widely advertised telephone type (float service) batteries have been advertised as having a 20-year life. If you look at the fine print, it has that rating only at 5% DOD - it is much less when used in an application where they are cycled deeper on a regular basis. Those same batteries are rated at less than 5 years if cycled to 50%. For example, most golf cart batteries are rated for about 550 cycles to 50% discharge - which equates to about 2 years.”

Following quotes from; http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Lifespan of Batteries

"Battery life is directly related to how deep the battery is cycled each time. If a battery is discharged to 50% every day, it will last about twice as long as if it is cycled to 80% DOD. If cycled only 10% DOD, it will last about 5 times as long as one cycled to 50%. Obviously, there are some practical limitations on this - you don't usually want to have a 5 ton pile of batteries sitting there just to reduce the DOD. The most practical number to use is 50% DOD on a regular basis. This does NOT mean you cannot go to 80% once in a while. It's just that when designing a system when you have some idea of the loads, you should figure on an average DOD of around 50% for the best storage vs cost factor. Also, there is an upper limit - a battery that is continually cycled 5% or less will usually not last as long as one cycled down 10%. This happens because at very shallow cycles, the Lead Dioxide tends to build up in clumps on the the positive plates rather in an even film. The graph above shows how lifespan is affected by depth of discharge. The chart is for a Concorde Lifeline battery, but all lead-acid batteries will be similar in the shape of the curve, although the number of cycles will vary."

Now as stated cycles less 5% or less will not last as long as one cycled to 10% so its possible you are right but the battery will drain over night some but all in all I am guessing thats still better than draining to 80% or more, being left on charger to long, left dead,......... and bees ate by bears.

I feel pretty confident I will get 10 years or close of service from my batteries, and I am really confident I have a better fencer than the average solar powered apiary fence has, and less risk of colony destruction than before.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

So I'm wondering if warranty shouldn't be a bigger factor in the battery choice. Deep cycle/marine batteries have a prorated 6 month warranty, whereas a regular car battery has minimum 1 year full replacement. 

I use the ss-2000x, and have a 5 watt solar charger. 5 watts should be plenty since 12v @ .09 amps is only 1 watt.

Other issue is the length of winter..
Thanks for your thoughts


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Brac:

If you know your battery will last over three years after being neglected, why worry about warranty! Although I have to wonder if you would get a hotter shock from a car battery and if kept fully charged by a panel, maybe it would be better choice.

5 watt charger may be just fine if weather is decent but your panel dont charge at night and the 5 watts is maximum output which will not be realized all the time. Thats why I decided to go bigger so I did not have to worry about several days of clouds and rain or a small short draining battery. Please post back in a couple months and let me know how the 5 watt pans out. If its good enough I would like to know for future fencers.

I was charging my three year old battery every week or so to be safe. When I got the panel I was going to charge the battery again before hooking it up but I felt confident it would be more than up for the job and wanted to see first hand. The battery had not been charged for about a week and a half before using panel. Today, one week later after 50/50 sun and cloud days, I took the battery to the shed and put on the charger and it barely took a charge which made my day.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Any Bears answer yet?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Wi-beek - I agreee with most of what you posted, but wish to add mu experience from working at a Lead acid fork lift battery manufacturer. Generally, the longer the warranty, everything else being equal, the better the battery. Most damage done by deep cycling is done during a rapid recharge, with the accompanying heat. The hotter the battery, the lower the "gassing" voltage where electrolysis occurs. The more gassing, the more material removed from the plates. The more material removes, the lower the capacity, until it builds up and shorts out the plates.
Float cells run a lower specific gravity of acid, and therefore have a lower storage capacity, but longer life. The acid tends to destroy the battery over time, the lower the acid , the longer it lasts. 

Crazy Roland


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