# Top Bar Hive Split



## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

I posted about my first hive split and some concerns I had on a different thread at http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?340418-My-first-split-bees-in-new-hive-are-acting-drunk. I've opened this thread for updates as the other is not really titled appropriately.

A short recap - I bought my first top bar hive in October last year. I built a second top bar hive and on 2 September did a 50/50 split. I moved the existing queen to the new hive. The hives are side by side, so I the foragers drifted back to the original hive, but I made sure there were enough nurse bees and brood to ensure the new hive could build. The bees in the original hive build queen cups almost immediately and the first of these were capped quite quickly, within about 5 days, indicating they were made with 1 or 2 day larvae in them. By day 13 I observed the first virgin queen emerge. The next day I went away on holidays, conveniently returning on day 29, shortly before the first inspection could be performed to see if I had a mated, laying queen. At that inspection I became a little concerned as I could not see the queen. There were a small number of young larvae and some eggs visible, but there appeared to be multiple eggs in come cells. This raised a possibility of laying worker rather than queen.

To be safe and to find out for sure if I was queen-less, I moved a bar of eggs, young larvae and capped brood over from the new hive to observe whether the bees built queen cells. Initially (like within hours) it appeared (from looking through the observation window) they were building cells on bars that were already in the hive - making it look like I'd just lost the queen and the bees were using the few existing eggs and larvae she had laid to make a new one. However within a day it was apparent they weren't making queen cups after all and what I was seeing them cleaning up the remnants of the original queen cells which I had torn out during the inspection. I didn't see any queen cells being built on the transferred bar which was a good sign the queen was still there. Being quite impatient, a few days later I did a brief inspection and was able to see the new queen as well as some larvae and capped brood.

About 2 weeks later, today I performed a full inspection of the hive. I am happy to say that the queen (which I spotted again) is doing a good job, with eggs, larvae and capped brood all present. She is laying good clusters. The only slight concern is the amount of comb available for her to lay in. The hive has about 12 bars, but only three of those are original brood bars. On top of those, in the brood area there is 1 new bar that was built from an empty I put in at time of the split, 1 bar that is about half built which I put in as an empty 2 weeks ago (the queen was on this bar) and another that is less than a third build which went in as an empty 1 week back. The partially built bars both had been filled by the queen, with eggs and larvae clearly present in the vast majority of cells. The full bar that has been built from the empty I put in at time of split sat close to the centre of the brood area, but had no signs of eggs or larvae. About a third of it was capped honey, a third had very small quantities of nectar in and about a third was empty (but with no eggs as I have noted). To ensure the queen doesn't stop using the brood bars beyond the one that is being used for honey, I moved this honey bar to the outside of the last brood bar, hoping that she will still use it but removing the risk of it being a problem.

The colony in this old hive with new queen has dwindled somewhat as one would expect while the queen is being created, mated and awaiting the first of the new brood to hatch. As a result the comb is not being built quickly - hence limited space for the queen to lay. Hopefully this will change over the next couple of weeks as the first brood is hatching and maturing to builder stage. Also, I don't feed at all - though there seems to be plenty of nectar and pollen around at the moment with several tree varieties around my place in full flower, including a type of gum tree which has piles of good forage on it.

I managed to take a couple of in focus pictures (I always find this a challenge while wearing my bee suite and gloves). Those viewing shouldn't have any trouble spotting the queen in one picture and fresh eggs in another. The third picture shows the least built new brood comb, which is the comb I have taken pictures of eggs in.

If anybody sees any issues with the progress to date I'd be very happy to hear from you or alternatively if you think its all good, I'd be happy to hear that also.

Cheers


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

It sounds great to me. I also did a split where the new queen gave me a scare by being rather late to start laying, but she's now my biggest, most prolific queen. It sounds like your new one is similarly getting busy now after a slow start.

Sounds like a winner to me!


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

newly mated queens sometimes lay multiple eggs in a cell for the first few days as they get the hang of things. Especially if the brood nest is somewhat limited. Glad you gave her a few more days to get things straightened out.

As for the slowness in drawing bars, I always get mine drawn by inserting an empty bar between 2 drawn worker brood comb bars. The bees jump right on it and draw it out in a couple of days. Syrup can help with that if you are not currently in a good nectar flow.


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

Hi AvatarDad, yes it has been a good learning experience.

Hi Ruth - yes, I have been putting the empty bars in the brood area for this stage of the colony's development. While they get onto them quickly, they are just a bit slow to draw. I think this largely comes down to the small size of colony presently. I've never provided syrup and while I wouldn't 100% rule it out in the future, I'm not intending to at this point as I prefer to let the bees do their own thing.

The new hive (with old queen) which was very slow in the weeks following the split due to all the workers drifting back to the old hive is now in full swing and is drawing comb significantly quicker than the old hive, but the colony is still relatively small so this will speed up further as the colony expands. My assessment is there is plenty of nectar around at the moment, I can smell it in the air around the place. Due to this split I have probably missed getting proper benefit from one of our main flow periods, but I am comfortable with that because I am not commercial and still have more than enough honey to feed the family. To me the split has had a number of purposes including reducing risk of the hive swarming, ensuring I have more than one hive for colony security purposes (ie if I lose a queen I'll have eggs from the other hive that I can use to provide the bees to make a replacement), ultimately increasing the amount of honey and wax that I will be producing for personal use as well as for family and friends and, something which I think has been most beneficial, the experience itself.


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## trishbookworm (Jun 25, 2016)

Consider carefully your weather before deciding whether or not to feed. No pun intended.  keep in mind this hive could easily starve if you had a run of rainy non-forage days. It sounds like the nectar flow isn't enough to lead the bees to draw out comb. That is an inference from them stopping to draw it out. Or the pressure of feeding and foraging is splitting the workforce so much that there is a slowdown in resources for drawing comb.

For my neck of the woods, we understand the saying "winter is coming" and we need comb drawn ASAP so it can be available for rearing winter bees (starting in August) and having room for plentiful stores. I'm guessing your pressing environmental changes don't include snow and subfreezing temps - but I wonder if there is a dearth period that your bees need to be prepared for. In that case feeding sugar syrup (1:1) is a way to be sure they can store the resources they need.

I worry about feeding, that it will 1) contaminate their honey, so I can't sell it, or 2) it will trigger swarming. But I don't worry about that for a new colony. That gets massively fed until I have 20 combs (they are size/area of langstroth deep, and the ideal for a large hive to have enough stores for winter). For a Kenyan hive, to have the same volume as a Langstroth deep, you need the ENTIRE hive to be drawn out. One Kenyan comb is something like 2/3 the surface area of a langstroth comb.


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

Hi Trish - I should have mentioned, I am in Queensland Australia and am therefore in Spring. I live in a sub-tropical area. The hives have quite a number of honey filled bars, so even if there was not ample fodder around (as there currently is) I'd not be concerned about them starving even if it rained for days on end - because they have ample stores. I think that the old hive (new queen) is currently at its lowest numbers that it will be, awaiting the bees produced by the new queen to emerge and become productive, hence the slow down in comb production. Cheers


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

My new hive (old queen) does not have an inspection window, but the entire bottom is screened so easy enough to look in to see what is happening. I have some corflute over the screen below the middle 6-8 bars, but this is just pinned on from the bottom so easy enough to flip back to inspect. Had a look this morning to see if they are building on a fresh bar I put in on the weekend. I was disappointed to see for the first time since the split a pile of chalk brood mummys on the hive floor. Interestingly I have none - at least at this stage - in the old hive (new queen) which is a weaker hive and would be worse at controlling temperature fluctuations.

Chalk brood is not new to my hive. When I my colony about this time last year, within weeks the chalk brood was noticeable. As a new beekeeper I didn't know what it was at the time, but the supplier of my hive and bees did a post sale/installation visit a couple of weeks in and told me what they were. Didn't say a lot other than that they'd clear up when the colony got bigger and could regulate the temperature better to keep moisture out of the brood area. This indeed happened. I was a bit disappointed at the time that I'd been sold brood combs that had the chalk brood spores in them, but then I guess most do here in Queensland Australia where the weather is very humid.

Hopefully the bees will get it under control fairly quickly so as not to slow the colony growth too much. Unfortunately the weather over the last few days has been very wet and will continue to be for a few more days - which is bound to make it worse.


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