# Dadant Deep Frames



## Jason (Nov 19, 2010)

Hello Everyone,

Does anyone know if a Dadant Deep frame (11 1/4" ?) has the clearance to be extracted in american extractors? (radial or tangental)

I was just curious after reading some Brother Adam material.

Thanks,

Jason


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

The 11 1/4 inch frame was not used for surplus honey, just for use in the brood chamber. The medium super frame was designed by Dadant for use on his hive for storage of surplus honey. I used the 11 1/4 in. brood chamber for about 15 years but I never tried to extract the honey from the brood chambers. The Dadant 6-12 Radial extractor I have will accept the frame with enough clearance to spin.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have an old 20 frame Dadant radial that will take four very tight in a load. I have to extract a few dozen every year either because I draw them out on the honey low or I pull them from honey clogged brood chambers in February. I also have a 20 frame Maxant that does NOT fit them.

"Historically in North America there were two large brood frame designs, the Dadant and the Langstroth Jumbo. There is no "Dadant Jumbo."

The standard Dadant brood frame (like the one used by Br. Adam) has the dimensions 17 5/8 * 11 1/4 inches. There are 11 of these in the Modified Dadant hive, and 12 in the Buckfast Dadant hive. The frames are spaced wider than Langstroth, on 1 1/2" centers (an important difference).

The Langstroth brood frame is 17 5/8 * 9 1/8 in. Normally used in an 8 or 10 frame configuration. (One of the reasons why the 10 fr. hive became popular is because the 8-fr. had a tendency to tip over.) Frame spacing is 1 3/8" center to center.

The Langstroth Jumbo brood frame is deeper, at 11 1/4", making it similar to the Dadant brood frame, but it retains the narrower spacing."


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## Jason (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks for the information everyone.

@ AR: is that a newish extractor? or was it purchased when you were working with the dadant deeps? just curious if it is still available in those dimensions.

@ oddfrank: Do you like working the dadant deeps? Do you find the increased area beneficial for brood? Is compatability an issue or do you run enough dadant deep hives that frame swapping to weaker hives is not a problem?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Jason said:


> @ ODfrank: Do you like working the dadant deeps? Do you find the increased area beneficial for brood? Is compatability an issue or do you run enough dadant deep hives that frame swapping to weaker hives is not a problem?


I rarely do frame swapping for strength purposes. Compatibility is always a problem when using multiple size boxes and frames. I attempt to separate sizes by apiaries or groups, so that I know what size to bring on a given trip. I have many sizes of frames and boxes as I am always curious about the next one's aspects of use. Plus my outfit has been hobbled together over 40 years from many sources. I like some benefits of double 9 5/8" deep boxes, and I like some benefits of a single 10 or 12 frame 11 5/8" deep box. I have little experience using 6 5/8" boxes for brood chambers but since so many do that method also must have benefits. I have caught large bait hives in small boxes and small swarms in large boxes. I built two hives with 19"+ frames and will make no more of those. My next batch of brood chambers is going to have 11 1/4" deep frames, but the ones I bought from Rossman have end bars too thin, they will bow with wiring. 

I have found in life that one screwdriver does not satisfy all needs, even those six way with two sizes of Philips, two sizes of slotted and two sizes of nut drivers. Sometimes you need a stubby handle, or a grasping handle or one with a weensy teensy tip. Same goes for hammers and bee frames.


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## Jason (Nov 19, 2010)

thanks for sharing the experiance odfrank.
I may try these at a later date, but for now will stick with a more "standard" format.
but you are right, sometimes you need a different screwdriver.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

(_reviving a thread from 2011_)



odfrank said:


> I like some benefits of double 9 5/8" deep boxes, and I like some benefits of a single 10 or 12 frame 11 5/8" deep box.


odfrank - You've probably mentioned this elsewhere, but could you please expand on what you see as the benefits and detriments of these two different sized hive/frame configurations?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

The benefits of a Jumbo 12 frame box:
Large comb area for the queen to lay in and therefore large populations to collect large crops. Only one box in which to find the queen. In my climate plenty large to overwinter in a single box.Drawbacks: non standard, you will have to make most of it yourself. No upper brood chamber to use for splits. Heavy deep frames when working the bees. Not heavier than a double deep for moving. Few extractors will fit Jumbo frames.

Benefits of a double Langstroth: compatibility, easy to procure, low cost. A 2nd brood chamber to use for splits. 
Drawbacks: single brood chamber too small in most climates to over winter in and for queen space in spring. 



shinbone said:


> (_reviving a thread from 2011_)odfrank - You've probably mentioned this elsewhere, but could you please expand on what you see as the benefits and detriments of these two different sized hive/frame configurations?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks for the reply!

Do you see any difference in swarm tendency between the two configurations?


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

I've got a pretty strong idea on how to make a spinner to handle 2 of the deep frames. Should cost less than $100 and only take a few hours. If I pull it off successfully I'll send it to you


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Yes. I feel the 12 frame Jumbos swarm less. I just shot two pics of 250lb crops on Jumbos and will post them tonight. That will give Charlie a shot at calling me a braggart. Actually I am in such a hurry to brag, maybe I can do it from my smartphone.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

"It ain't bragg'n if you can do it."


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

As promised earlier...this season's big boys... and the weather has been poor during our flow. You can see it was cold and overcast this morning. Those square medium supers make about 50 lbs. so that one with six on is well on it's way to 300lbs, and the season is early yet. Queens are just local bait hive catches. Supers and some brood chambers date back to 1979, rot has claimed some of the 1979 equipment that has been replaced over the years. Going on 40 years, one of my good investments and decisions to make these way back when I was just 28 years old.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Ollie for sharing so much of his wisdom, talent and stories of huge honey crops that are just plain astounding! If I didn't know him like I do, I would get the impression he's bragging but no, he shares so others may learn!


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