# are your bees ready for winter?



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

So far so good, but February is a long ways off. The mite levels are about the lowest and hive populations the highest that I have seen this time of year in quite some time. The last mite treatment we gave them was a year ago, go figure.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Getting there. Mites are low, bees look good. Like Jim says, long way off..for us...April. Using mite wipes for the first time to do a v mite clean up. And since i have had trachea issues before, doing a clean up on that too.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Not looking bad so far. No frost, bees still bring in pollen, and queens still laying as of a week ago, but it has rained since then, grrrrrr...

Crazy Roland


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## ShaneVBS (Aug 22, 2011)

i told them too, and they said ok were ready


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Bees have been looking great this summer my mite counts are a bit high i treated last week; and the honey flow that just started here should give me a clean round of bees to hit the winter with. 
Mite counts in my bees are the highest iv seen in a few years. Dont know the reason for this maybe my bees have been brooding so much this year, my populations have been huge all year.
Nick


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## VolunteerK9 (Aug 19, 2011)

One weird year for sure. My area was hit with 5 different tornadoes in one day and we just recovered from 12 inches of rain in one day after suffering the whole month of August without any. My bees seem to be doing real well on the Goldenrod/Aster flow. I have a few supers full of it already waiting to be capped. The SHB populations were also incredibly low the whole year too but Im not complaining.


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## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

still pulling honey. hope to start shipping bees to TX by the 1st or 2nd week in Nov.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

As predicted, the early warmth this spring brought on tremendous storms in the south and caused a lot of damage... and in turn, we had a late start after regrouping, but an especially long season... goldenrod is just opening, aster has been blooming for about a week and a half, and I foresee this flow lasting until late October... the late summer rains have even brought back enough clover to create another flow in some of our yards where the summer heat had scorched the ground bare... we are already above average on honey production and have been splitting and setting up nucs all month... plenty of food to go around, should be an excellent buildup next spring... 

I am spreading things out even farther now, so hopefully we won't have to fight the storms so badly next spring... in the process, I have a lot of empty yards in orchards (apples, peaches, pecans, etc)... if anyone needs some southern locations to winter in, let me know... 

Shb have not been a problem this year, but we ran traps and deterrents all season... haven't lost any hives or splits and they are in their down time now...

Mites have been extremely low all season, haven't had to treat anything so far, even with heavy brood rearing... may be that they are not fond of the shb deterrent either...

Nucs to overwinter are doing great and I am trying out a few different styles of boxes to test their wintering abilities... fingers crossed...


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Had a little more problem with the hive beetle. Crop was just a normal crop-no complaints. Hives are strong with some still bearded out. All meds have been applied earlier in August. Bees are working the following-Goldenrod, asters, Spanish needles, New York Ironweed, Smokebush, and our wild type bradford pear that is in the area by the gazzillions of trees has been tricked by the drought so it is blooming again. So the bees will do well and I have left a super on for some surplus to finish out one last load to Sioux. Bees should come out of the winter in good shape for nuc production. TED


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Well, I'll be glad when 2011 is history! This has been a difficult year all around. Started with deep snows in winter. Then we got flooded with rain and snow melt. Lake Champlain reached its all time height above seal lever...103.8'. Flood stage is 100'. The spring was wettest on record...5+ inches over average for both April and May. Couldn't drive into some yards until June. Had to carry in supers, etc. It finally stopped raining in mid-June and never rained again until August. With the high temps, everything dried out fast. Ground got so dry that it developed wide cracks in the soil. 

Honeyflow started well, and Honeysuckle and Sumac looked great. Promise of Clover with the moisture in the ground...and good bloom. Nothing happened. We took off supers in late August and got a half a crop. Goldenrod flolw started right on time on August 15. Smelled strong and I was looking forward to heavy hives well stocked for winter. Not! Irene came on the 28th and ended the flow for good. Now I have many yards that need serious feeding. Winter is almost here in Vermont and feeding temps are quickly going by. 

I sure would like to see an average, regular old year, with average temps, rainfall, honeyflow...I'm sick to death of our weather being the wettest-driest, coldest-hottest, deepest-least, etc, etc.


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## Bill Russell (Aug 12, 2006)

Weather not too awfully abnormal here in Wisconsin. Hard to say what a normal crop is here as the last five years or so just haven't been up to par. Too many non-producers knocking the average down. Thankful for the strong price for honey. I think it was only 10 years ago that the price was 65 cents. My little 70 lb average this year wouldn't have been worth much.
The three things that have changed in my operation the past couple of years are:
1) this fall have hit them with oxalic twice
2) I double up all the dead outs as I come across them during the summer instead of taking just singles south. With just the least bit of effort seem to be able to get bomber doubles by first week in February on a consistent basis. Split them at that time to make up deadouts and still make some citrus from both units.
3) made some third week in August splits that have turned out fine.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Bill: Pretty sure most folks on here would be happy to have your "little" 70 lb. average. If the National Honey report is any indication, nationwide the average usually ends up around 60 lbs. Wisconsin had 60 in 2009 and 68 in 2010 so with those numbers in mind you did pretty well. Wish I was as far along in treatments as you. I hear ya Greg, we have another couple of weeks of extracting ahead of us yet, 3 months of this starts to wear you down. 
One little observation about weather and averages. I think too often people confuse average with normal. Averages are simply that.....averages, Taking all the extremes and doing the simple math shouldnt lead one to expect that in weather or honey crops that there is some base line that one can reasonably expect. Too often its feast or famine, I can remember old timers talking about this crazy weather when I was a kid. My conclusion is that the chances of getting a "normal" year are really abnormally small.


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## benstung (Mar 20, 2011)

70 lb. average is what we got here as well. Bees are looking great.

Hey Jim how is that possible that you dont treat for mites?


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## benstung (Mar 20, 2011)

o yeah and today is sept 30th, finished pulling honey yesterday and today is the last day of extracting.

we have never been done this early but it feels **** good







Homestead Apiaries Inc.
Southeastern MN 
o yeah and East Texas


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## redbee (Dec 29, 2005)

Got about 2 weeks here too of pulling honey .The forcast looks perfect for yard work next week in the 80s so hope to gets lots done.I have shipped out a couple loads of leased bees. My bees are strong and heavy for a change and low mite count ,knock on wood


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Keith Jarrett said:


> are you doing anything special to them after this odd year?


 Are you trying to sell something..??? :lookout:


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

HONEYDEW said:


> Are you trying to sell something..???


Now HoneyDew... lol would I do something like that?? lol 
No, but on that note I had bees this spring in TX in a drought than shipped them to ND to a flood. I'm with MP I would settle for a normal year.

P.S the sub is selling very well thanks. just ask JBJ or Beebz in your neck of the woods.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Still trying to get the last of the honey off before they eat it all. Made enough to try again next year.:v:


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

benstung said:


> Hey Jim how is that possible that you dont treat for mites?


#1 We kind of hit the reset button by killing all of our old queens in March when we are nucing
#2 We do treat for mites in the fall and usually in the spring except this year because we just werent seeing many. We are just getting done now with thymol treatments, we will probably follow up with oxalic, have to see how the numbers look in a few weeks
#3 We treat as needed, this year maybe we just got lucky, I'm not about to claim that I have cracked the code on Varroa management or that it was anything out of the ordinary that we did. 

So I am assuming its just the year but hopefully its a trend only time will tell.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Our bees are getting there. The late splits we made in early sept are for the most part looking good. Temperatures have been good. Bees are still broody. Some pollen coming in and we are still feeding patties. We've had mite treastments on them getting close to a month now, so overall I'd say we are looking pretty good. Last load of bees coming back from ther north monday morning. The other load early this week looked pretty good. Only had to replace 6 queens out of 152. Another good thing is that more thn 85% of the queens are from this year and of those I'd say about 80% we raised. I think they'll be just fine.

Jean-Marc


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

I am ready for winter. Does that count?
The bees look good overall. Still got some feeding to do but that never really seems to end.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Who knows anymore!?

Bees look good, mite counts are down and the bee populations look good. They are eating me out of house and home right now. Taking syrup like crazy with this warm weather. I figure if with weather like this if the bees want more Ill give them more. If they dont use it now they will use it in the spring, 

Disappointed with my queen performance this year. out of 700 + hives I pulled at least 50, no queen
oh well, 

Big honey crop this year

All is well, but the losses reported from beekeepers here last winter has gotten me nervous
Good beekeepers loosing well over half their hives, some up to 90%

I have very low mite counts thanks to Apivar applied in the spring. I did not use any treatments this fall. No sign of DWV either
If the counts are next to nil and there isnt any sign of disease,... then I should be alright, right???


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Ian said:


> I did not use any treatments this fall. No sign of DWV either
> If the counts are next to nil and there isnt any sign of disease,... then I should be alright, right???


Me thinks a sticky board is in need. By the time we see "sign of disease" it's too late, going into fall is best to play safe.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Keith how are your bees looking? 

Ian i have talked to many beekeepers this year and every one is complaining about queens. Wonder why? It not like they all got them from a one bad supplier. I too have had bad queen losses this year seems like after every honey crop i lose about 10% (that sucks when you got 4 of them lol). I wonder if nosema might have something to do with it. The only hives im seeing that the queens are ok in are the new ones so im thinking next year i will probably end up requeening every thing i think i could cut my losses to 3-5% after every crop.
Nick


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

swarm_trapper said:


> Keith how are your bees looking?


They look petty good, they should after sixteen pounds of sub and six gallon of syrup. lol, Queens, yeah i have the same problem as everyone else, made up 400 singles in september to help hold the numbers, this spring was hurendus trying to get a cell into a good queen.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

If you were trying to pick the next generation of football players, which would you choose, the sons of a random dish washer from the local Dennys, or the sons of the Manning boys?

They would both be humans, both can be healthy, both males... 

The queens of the US have been going down hill, that is certainly true... and the failures are not just from poor rearing and mating methods... so one must ask "what is the common factor amongst the majority of queen producers?"

Just food for thought.


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

poor nutrition? over stocking cell builders to make so many cells a day? poor drone genes? a beekeeper i know, one of the ones with the best bees carefully raise only the cells they need and only goes to texas. does that sound about right??


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

mnbeekeeper said:


> and only goes to texas. does that sound about right??


Yes it does, TEXAS is GREAT FEBUARY & MARCH those are the two BEST months in TEXAS. lol

OK Jimmy, letter rip.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ian said:


> Disappointed with my queen performance this year. out of 700 + hives I pulled at least 50, no queen


Were all of the hives requeened this season? 50 young, failed queens that were not replaced successfully within the hive? If so, this would imply even bigger losses….just that most were likely replaced by supercedure/emergency queens. The majority of lost queens, in my experience are successfully replaced, if they were laying to begin with. So, by my guess if 50 were hopelessly queenless then the actual losses were probably more like 150 out of 700. That would get my attention.
But then conditions in Canada are a bit different than in the southern US….so what do I know?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Nutrition can certainly have an impact upon queen development, but that falls under the lines of rearing methods, and many producers that do provide the optimal nutrition and minimal stress via cell numbers in builders are still seeing queens fail within the first season...

Drone availability is a major issue, as most of the queen producers are also striving to produce a crop and thus hives that could be producing drones within the mating areas are getting treated which lowers the viability of the sperm in the drones that are produced... on the other side of that coin, there are producers that are not treating and their drone populations are minimal and/or impacted by the mites and diseases thus leading once again to poor matings... too often drone production is not considered important enough to use specifically selected colonies after the second generation of optimal performance and thus a queen from a carefully selected colony gets mated to average or poor drones and the resulting colonies are average or lacking...

Genetics.... now there is the greatest culprit... so many are working to incorporate specific traits, how do they do so? Where are these traits coming from? Is it from closely watching their best hives or from bringing in foreign genetics and crossing them with their own? If so, what are the true characteristics of the foreign genetics? Are they acclimated to the US climates? Do they even have the same average life spans as US lineages? Is the one season drop-off, excessive swarming, etc, a common trait for them in their native land? 

When crossing two lines, you can not simply take only one or two traits, you get the horns with the bull... the selection and crossing process must be continued every single season and never simply ends with a consistent cross... 

Sorry Keith, didn't mean to get off tpic


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I saw the same thing with my queens as well. However, they were from the new zeland packages. I either replaced or saw them supercede after a round or two of brood rearing. There was from my way of looking at it, no real difference in the what was going on when i hived each yard with the exception of the first yard. All done before the flow, all got pollen and feed right off the bat. The only difference is the first yard had to wait a more than a few days because of incliment weather for hiving. The rest got hived within a day of recieving the packages. I think the highest queen loss was in the first yard. As for the restof the yards, at least 25-30% superceded in June.
It was odd, I would check a packaged hive a several weeks later and the brood pattern was gang buster like with many frames of brood. The queen went to town. I saw the queen she looked nice and fat, but there in the middle of one frame would be a nice pretty supercedure cell which was capped. Go figure! I knocked down a few to see what would happen. Some superceded again and some did not bother. Nice fall hives though

The queens i replaced in my wintered hives and splits from the wintered hives did pretty well I must say, however they went in either before or at the start of the dandilion flow. That said, I ordered a "new" group of queens similar to the oliverez and strachen which i think are from the same area. Not really happy with those ones. They went in in the bottom half of the dandilion flow. Even with pollen patties, and syrup they were slow to build, poor on honey production and superceded. Out of 15 i was extremely happy with 4. The rest... most built up enough bees for winter but lacked in honey production.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

rrussell6870 said:


> Sorry Keith, didn't mean to get off tpic


rrussell, you hit on some very important topic's that we may all be feeling now,but all started in the spring. Many thanks for the input, very well said Russell.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Could we split this off into a new thread starting with Russel's post #27?

As an experiment, I received from another individual 4 frames of bees and mixed brood. That individual had complained of queen failures. I let them raise their own queen, and it too failed after one round of brood. I thought this strange, because we had not had problems with the queens that had overwintered. It was on a scale, and did very poorly this year, compared with the other hives. I will continue to observe this hive(now 2), and try to tell if the problem is genetic or pathogens.

Crazy Roland


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Oh ya kieth, Im looking and testing. Thats what I meant,

Going into the honey flow I never go into the chamber to check for queens. If they have queen trouble after the boxes go on, the hives are on their own, and if they arent successful in keeping a good queen , they will be blown out when I find them in the fall.

I did notice waves of dragon flies around this summer. Swarms of thousands sweeping the countryside for bugs. I worked in a yard with the swarm actively taking down bees as we worked. Quite the battle. Sometimes teh dragon flies won, sometimes the bees got away. I suspect maybe the dragon flies might of increased my queen losses


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