# Which one would you get?



## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

For your first hive, what one would you get?

I am looking to get a package of bees, italian.

Am leaning towards using medium or deep hive bodies and would like a screened in bottom board.

I don't have any equipment right now and am in the middle or end of taking my bee class here at the local bee chapter.

Knowing what you know, what would you get for your first one? Iam not sure what all the norman clature is on the types of frames and sizes yet. Your suggestions will help.

I am kind of leaning towards wood, wired wax foundation and small cell.

Of these complete hives what would you pick.

http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?cat=9


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## randydrivesabus (Apr 27, 2006)

i would get at least 2 hives.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I'd buy this

http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=105IPM

you'll be much happier if you can scrape up the cash for 2
I think you have to get the SC foundation from Dadant, but ask BM when you call them to order
I just sent them an email inquiring about their 2007 catalog

Dave


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I would recommend sticking to only mediums
for brood and supers. I wish it was the
industry standard in sideliner beekeeping.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I would agree with Randy, start with at least 2 hives. I would drive to Brushy Mountain and talk to them if your within 50 miles or so. Also order your bees today, packages are already averaging 95 bucks and with shipping you'll see 120. They may be in short supply due to bee losses this year so order early, order often.

I like Dave Robbins but you have to keep in mind he fell off the honey wagon some year ago, hit his head on a lit smoker and hasn't been quite right since.







I'd run single deeps in your area with medium depth honey supers. Your area does not require a great deal of room for winter stores and you can start small (1 deep for brood chamber) and grow into a 2nd deep if you need it next year. Your new bees will have all they can do to draw out foundation and get a hive body of stores for winter the 1st. year, you likely won't need honey supers until year #2.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Blammer, I will recommend Reel's bee supply. They are just down the road from you. You can get a single deep, screen bottom board with slide tray, inner and outer lid, 10 frames, 10 foundation, fully assembled, painted, wax wired in, totally ready to install bees for $55.00.

Reels Bee Supply
200 Bee Gum Dr.
Marion, N.C. 28752
828-738-3017 Harlan
828-738-4636 Anthony
828-317-1526
[email protected]

Like the others, I would recommend starting with two.

If you call your order in and go to pick it up, do so when you have an hour or two to spare. Harlan and Anthony are both experienced beeks and will let you pick their brains for enough info that the cost of the hives will be nothing compared to the value of their knowledge.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

>he fell off the honey wagon some year ago, hit his head on a lit smoker and hasn't been quite right since

hey, I resemble that complement








I'd advise you not to let that Yankee come down here and tell you how to run your bees
2 mediums have 30% more volume than a single deep and are ideal for our balmy southern clime
just because Joel comes down to South Carolina for vacation he thinks he's an expert  

by the way, send iddee a PM and get the contact info for Reels Bee Supply
they're in Marion and are cheaper

Dave

[edit] dang, he beat me to it

[ January 14, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

yes I am looking at two.

I ordered a package of bees from Holberts. and am trying to get a NUC of NWC's from Mike.

thanks!
more suggestions welcome!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

I will vote with Randydrive and try to get two hives going. I started with one hive and lost that hive my first year; [a long story regarding a landlord]. My second year, I was able to combine a weak hive with a strong so that I had one hive [at least] to go through the winter. This past summer , 06; I was able to transfer some frames of brood from a strong hive to a weak hive while it reestablished itself with a new queen. When you first start out with only one hive and you realize you are "HAVING FUN" and become really interested then that one hive doesn't seem like "enough". You check on that [one] hive for about 15 to 25 minutes and then ask yourself; is this it; I have to close up "my hive" and "call it a day"??  . Good luck and happy BEEKEEPING!


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

I'd start with mediums and SC. Get the SC sheets from peggjam. The deal iddee pointed out looks good but you might get a similar deal using mediums. Regarding screened bottom boards. I'm not at all convinced that its the way to go, unless you get one that has a slide-out tray that is tight, and if you can get one of those then go for it, Otherwise just get a regular bottom board or make your own. The regular bottom board is the simplest piece of equipment to make. 

Forget the inner cover unless you get a kit that includes one. They come in handy for feeding and Winter configurations but as part of a standard set-up they suck.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

I would go with two hives for sure, no questions asked. When I started out I was going with one hive and everyone here at BeeSource talked me into two hives and boy it took me five days to be glad I did because the first hive had a queen die the first week and I was able to use the other hive to help it along. My #1 recommendation would be to go to MB's website www.bushfarms.com and read up on his methods of all medium supers and everything about small cell if your going small cell. Good luck!


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

Just gave Harlan a ring and will try to get my stuff later this week.

Thanks!


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

ok
what did you go with?
we need to know what "camp" you're in









Dave


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Is Harlan the fella from Reel's? If so, good for you! But...if you're looking at SC then now is the time to do it. Save the foundation from Reel's for the honey supers. Buy some SC foundation. Look around and buy a queen or nuc from somebody that is working on selecting and propagating survivor queens, without chemicals. If you start out with a survivor-line queen and SC you're a year or two ahead of most, at least those that are looking away from chemicals.


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

the camp I went with is, get a hive first! I mean get two of them.

well, I went with a single deep, wax wired in, I will inquire about small cell or large cell when there to see what they say. I'll probably get a shallow super while there and a queen excluder to start also. I won't put the queen excluder and the shallow (honey) super on till later but at least I'll have it handy. I'm 6' and 190 pounds so the deep brood box or deep super won't be a problem for me.

My club around here; all seems to be definitely in favor of a screened bottom board.


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

I'm looking at the NWC bees and leaning towards the "survivor line"

at the next meeting I'll inquire about the Small Cell.

thanks for the tip on the small cell swap.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Here's what I recommend:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

as wade says
the issue is the foundation
Reels is going to put regular foundation in unless you tell them otherwise
if SC is the path you want to follow you'd be ahead to either get them to install SC foundation or just leave it out and do it your self

Dave


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## albee (Nov 16, 2006)

I would talk to Don (fat/beeman) 
I have only heard good things about his bees.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

>I'm 6' and 190 pounds so the deep brood box or deep super won't be a problem for me.

I'm 6' and 235lbs of pretty stout 35 year old country boy and I said the same thing. I am here to tell you that you will eat those words just like I did.
  They are 90 lbs but sometimes I swear they 400 lbs. One or two hives and you will be o.k, but if the beekeeping bug bites you like it did me I went from two hive to fifteen hives in six months. Now work those in a few hours and by the time you get to the last one it will really feel like 400 lbs!


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

thanks michael bush, that was really helpful!


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

When I was 6' and 155, and 35 y/o, the deeps were easily handled. Now that I have added another 80 lb. tare weight, and 25 years, they are getting a mite heavy. I still like deeps better for brood, tho, as brood deeps do not weigh near 90 lb. I have recently, reluctantly, moved to mediums for honey supers. I still feel cheated when I hand crank out 10 frames of honey, and get 10 quarts, rather than the 20 quarts I got from 10 deep frames. Same amount of cranking, same mess, only half the honey.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

>I'm looking at the NWC bees and leaning towards the "survivor line"

what's the option?
the "non-survivor" line









Dave


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

you funny!

allegedly what "they" tell me is the survivor line is a bread queen, that is bread for dourability against disease and pests.. don't know how much is advertising and how much is true though....


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## MichelleB (Jan 29, 2006)

OK, I'm only in my second year, but I'm going from 10 frame double deep for brood and meds for supers, to 8 frame semi-deeps (7 5/8) for everything. It's an odd size, but the next closest is mediums. I want to save my boyfriend's back, you know.









Read up here and you'll find the many reasons for keeping all boxes same size. 

And yep, those deeps get heavy--especially if you have to triple stack them when combining two weak hives. Don't even think of running deep honey supers, take everyone's word for it. 

Definitely get two colonies, but face it, you'll end up with at least four. Or...forty. 

As for cell size, if you opt for regular size, be aware that packages don't take kindly to plastic foundation. I wish I'd started them on wax, with the intent of introducing plastic this year (in between last year's drawn comb). Again, another topic widely discussed, just search "Pierco". And I think I prefer plastic foundation in wood frames over all-in-one Pierco, and over traditional wax. But I'm still very new at this.

Welcome! You're totally in for it.

[ January 15, 2007, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Lupine ]


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Beekeeping is usually a lifetime obsession and if you take care of your equipment most of it will last most of that lifetime. What won't last is your back. If I could afford it today I would scrap every deep box I have and use nothing but 8 frame mediums. As it is, I have a barn full of a hodge podge of different sized equipment and have to waste time searching for what will fit with what every time I get ready to go to an outyard. It's best to make your choices today based on what you want 20 or 30 years from now.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

I actually like the deeps, for fewer frames to go through if you're queen-hunting or going through the whole brood area for some reason. But I love playing in the hive; a more reasonable beek might use the mediums because most folks won't go through the whole thing more'n a couple times in a year







. All mediums would be very cool for the interchangeability aspect. 

Personally I would definitely recommend mediums over shallows for honey supers though. Not that much heavier, but extracting goes a lot more quickly (fewer frames per unit honey to uncap, extract, drop).


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## AdelJeff (Nov 29, 2005)

Since you are going with 2 hives now. Good idea!!! Why not get one set with deeps and one with Med. ? You will learn which you like better. 
This is my second year and believe me just actually having the colonies and working with them. All of this discussion will make so much more sense...


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I'm pretty dogmatic about this: mediums are best for everything. Even if I powerlifted, I would not waste my strength lifting deeps. The only time I ever regret all mediums is when I'm assembling new frames, and only then because I must make more.


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

OK, I'm just getting started in this, too and I'm hoping to get a good start up set. I got one hive, two deeps and a shallow super, for Christmas. I've ordered two packages which will be here the middle of April, so I have a bit of time. I want to get another hive, but I don't know what to get. I've heard that you want to keep things consistant, so does that mean that I stick with what I have? I've heard that the mediums are better in the long run, so do I switch to that? I live on Long Island, so does that mean that single deeps are better or two mediums. 

There is a local beekeeping club, but I haven't talked with them yet. Their next meeting isn't till March, but I hate waiting till the last minute to get things done.


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

Oh, also how many supers should I have ready going into the first year? I was thinking about three shallows per hive. does this sound right?


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

I would order six mediums, two hive stands and covers. Winter with the deep and two mediums. Next spring make a split and sell the deeps with bees to a new beekeeper. You should be able to winter fine with 3 mediums in the future.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

Blammer:

I am new also. I am doing this

1) bought full medium hive from brushy mountain

2) bought tablesaw to make some of my own covers,stands and medium boxes. I am buying all my frames

3) Have an order in for a package of italians

4) have a local source lined up for a queen and some frames of brood and bees , for hive number 2

5) Read beesource


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

OK, I couldn't stand it!

Called the guys at Reel Bee Supply, and dragged the kids down there today. Just got back.

chatted em up about the 2 mediums for use as a hive body and they suggested it'd be cheaper for one deep, it ain't as heavy and you'll likely not need to swap frames of honey as often as you think, etc....

So here is what I got.

2 deep hives with screened bottom board and inner cover and cover 

Hive body pic 2 

pic of 2 medium supers 

Inside of Deep with SBB on bottom 

the SBB is nailed to the main Hive body.

got two 10" hives with wax wired foundation, Screened bottom board,inner cover and top cover and 2 medium supers with foundation for $170


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

ARRRG! No entrance reducer!

Guess I better make one!


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Nice looking stuff Blamer, painted and assembled. You can't beat that! Now if your like me you will stare at it for the next three months like if you stare long enough bees will appear!


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

3/4 x 3/4 pine from lowe's, reducers are very easy to make.


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

yep, came that way.

I'm sure I have some spare lumber around I can make a reducer.

Looking to make a clip on front landing ramp.


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

Ok, so what camp am I in?


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

Ok, so what camp am I in?


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

The right one>>>>


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

>OK, I couldn't stand it!

you're hooked bad buddy









>Ok, so what camp am I in?
the one that got a good deal from Reel's









Dave


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>chatted em up about the 2 mediums for use as a hive body and they suggested it'd be cheaper for one deep, it ain't as heavy

What's not as heavy? A deep full of honey at 90 pounds or two mediums full of honey at 60 pounds each? The queen will need two deeps to have enough room if she's any good.

>So here is what I got.

The bees will like it fine. After you've lifted a deep full of honey you will understand why I advised against it.

"...no man's back is unbreakable and even beekeepers grow older. When full, a mere shallow super is heavy, weighing forty pounds or more. Deep supers, when filled, are ponderous beyond practical limit." --Richard Taylor, The Joys of Beekeeping


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

Ok, I am thinking that the deep would be where the bees will always live and make brood. Why would I need to move the hive body anyways? If that is where they live, it won't all be full of honey, it will have pollen and brood in it, so that will be lighter. If I have to move it, I suppose I can take out 1/2 the frames then move it.

Will they fill it all the way up with honey and have no place for brood or pollen?


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

You are right. I have not seen a 90 lb. deep in 10 years. I started using mediums for supers and deeps for hives about that time. A deep full of honey will weigh that, but a deep full of brood will not come close. Some beeks use deeps only, as 10 frames yielding 20 quarts is more desirable than 10 frames yielding 10 quarts to many people. In recent years, I have noticed some beeks have began using mediums only. I have also noticed it is harder to find hard working employees in the last few years. "any connection?"

Only after I hit my fifties did I begin using medium supers. When I hit my eighties, maybe I will go to all mediums.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Why would I need to move the hive body anyways?

If you run two deeps you always have to move the top one to get to the bottom one. You always have to move the bottom one to get to the bottom board to clean it off.

> If that is where they live, it won't all be full of honey, it will have pollen and brood in it, so that will be lighter.

Often. But sometimes it IS full of honey and lifting one of those makes me hurt for a week or more. Lifting a lot of them is worse.

> If I have to move it, I suppose I can take out 1/2 the frames then move it.

Yes you can. But each of those frames is covered with bees and it's more of a disturbance to move them a frame at a time.

>Will they fill it all the way up with honey and have no place for brood or pollen?

Sometimes, yes. The bees do this on purpose and then they swarm.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

I would like to suggest to ya' that three is a prime number... I suspect you are headed 'there' anyway.


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

hmm, looks like I will have to "un-nail" my bottom board from the main deep, and get a few more 10 frame mediums to use as either brood or Honey supers.


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

You look like you have a jump on most beginners Blammer. I'm just speaking for myself, but equipment-wise I was caught with my pants down that first year. You already know that you need more equipment than just a single deep like the beginner kits. Then you might want to do a split, then a swarm or two shows up, then word gets out that you keep bees and you start getting phone calls about the bee tree that has to go. If you don't draw the line somewhere you'll need to find another beeyard and either take up a woodshop or consider taking stock in Glorybee or Dadant or Reel's. Anyway, it looks like you have a handle on it.

Regarding the heavy deep honey supers. "ABC..XYZ of Bee Culture" stated something to the effect that some commercial outfits run all deeps to keep it simple- but they add the qualifiyer that the manager that makes those decisions probably has somebody other than themself handling those heavy boxes. Truly they really are manageable blammer, but often you'll need to push or pull on one or break it loose and you don't have any leverage because of the height,or you have to lift it up while reaching and heave it when its away from your body. That's where you'll use the back too much.


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## honigbiene (Sep 6, 2006)

<allegedly what "they" tell me is the survivor line is a bread queen>

Is this the line that produces honey especially suited for baking or for PBH sandwiches?


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

Wish I had followed MB's advice -all medium 8 frame equipment!!! Would make it so muc easier to handle and combine later. But I didn't for mostly free equipment reasons.


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## blammer (Jul 28, 2006)

honigbiene-that was too funny! LOL!


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