# Using hairclips



## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

My son's videos at You-tube/user/OgbornsApiaries. Attempting to fix comb
McCartney Taylor has a couple of videos about it at You-tube/user/outofabluesky


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

If anyone can remember his name there was a polish? guy from Chicago who used to post on here a few years ago, zoning issues stopped his beekeeping. He had a website and posted photos showing the hairclip tip.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

It's not that hard. take an empty top bar, a hair clip about 3" long and the comb You want to attach,
Grab the comb with the hair clip or two depending on the size of the comb. Put two 8" zip ties through the top of the clip.
Then run the zip ties over the top bar and tighten them up.
I'll try to get a couple of pictures up on my photobucket.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

I just uploaded a couple of pictures to my photobucket.
http://s1066.photobucket.com/profile/StevenOgborn


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

I gotta add that to my bag of tricks HOWEVER... this is brand new comb and heavy with bees and whatever they are packing away; the comb is like handling Jello. I'm concern that the clip would tear thru the comb because of the weight. Any experience with soft comb? - Mike


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## SteveBee (Jul 15, 2010)

I've used hairclips a few times. On empty, light combs, they worked fine. But on combs with any weight to them, they tore off. Especially after it got nice and warm.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Why bother? Let them draw a new good comb. Isn't that what topbar is all about? Comb renewal? Crush and strain? New, fresh, well attached natural comb?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes, but when you are just starting any comb is really helpful. I've never used hairclips but here is a simple thing that works really well: get a small piece (about 4x10 depending on your top bars) of 1/2 x1" mesh hardware cloth - commomly used for rabbit cages. And bend it into a 10" long U squared off U shape 1x2x1 x10 long. Hang it over a top bar so that one arm is laying on top, and the bottom 1" arm is horizontal. - the U is sideways. Cut the wire stringer off so that you have a row of 1" wires 1/2" apart. Secure it to the top bar so it doesn't just fall off - I use a couple of staples. Now you can just impale the comb on that row of wires. It even works on soft new comb if it isn't too big and heavy. Old brood comb is great. I' don't have any pictures handy, but it's easier to do than to describe.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

mhorowit said:


> I gotta add that to my bag of tricks HOWEVER... this is brand new comb and heavy with bees and whatever they are packing away; the comb is like handling Jello. I'm concern that the clip would tear thru the comb because of the weight. Any experience with soft comb? - Mike


Soft comb gives you about 3 options I'm aware of...
1. Build some type of "feral comb capture frame" that will fit in your TBH (not easy, but unless the comb's full of honey it should work)
2. Let it cool down a bit (say, to 75F or less, preferably), then "glue" it to the top bar with a bit of melted wax (once again, only works if the comb's not too heavy).
3. Forget it & let the bees build new comb (easiest method, and unless you really need/want this specific piece of comb, probably recommended)

Having tried all three of these methods myself, I generally use #2 with comb that's mostly empty, and #3 with all of the rest (with the exception of having special, Lang.-compatible boxes with "capture frames" that I use for cut-outs).


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> I don't have any pictures handy, but it's easier to do than to describe.


Here's a "quick and dirty" diagram of what I understand from David's method for you (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong David)...it's a pretty rough drawing, but I think it might help.


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

Rob...as you insert the wire "screen", aren't you cutting thru the comb so that all the lower comb is now supported by the part of the comb not sliced by the mesh?

Oh, you arn't using chicken coop mesh! You've got 10 fingers poking into the comb! No cross wires cutting crosswise.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

That is it except you want the wires to stick throught the comb an inch or so down. The bees will very quickly attach it.

1 picture = 1000 words.









I actually have one like this deployed in a hive of mini frames, but it's too cold to go into it today.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

mhorowit said:


> I gotta add that to my bag of tricks HOWEVER... this is brand new comb and heavy with bees and whatever they are packing away; the comb is like handling Jello. I'm concern that the clip would tear thru the comb because of the weight. Any experience with soft comb? - Mike


Cut the top off kind of straight, and use two clips.


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

Wow, that's very substantial; I'll have to keep an eye open for that type of fencing; perhaps TCS would have it. - MIke


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

mhorowit said:


> Wow, that's very substantial; I'll have to keep an eye open for that type of fencing; perhaps TSC would have it. - MIke


Here's what I found on the TSC site that matched closest:
Cage Wire, 1/2"x1" grid <--this looks to be to be exactly what's in David's pic
Hardware Cloth 1/2"x1/2" grid<--this is what I think he described...seems like it should work alright to me, but the heavier wire on the "Cage Wire" might be a good deal easier to stick through the comb...especially old brood comb. The description of this on the TSC page says it's 2" mesh, but if you count the holes...there are about 48 holes on a 24" roll = 1/2" mesh, they typo'd.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

The 1/2x1" cage wire is exactly what I have used, but there is no reason why other sizes won't work too - as long as the stubs are long enough to go through the comb. There is no great need for it to be all that heavy duty as long as it can support the comb for a few days. The bees will connect it remarkably fast. You can probably get this by the foot at an old fashioned hardware store if you can find one. 1 foot of it would make a lifetime supply if you retrieve and reuse.


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

odfrank said:


> Why bother? Let them draw a new good comb. Isn't that what topbar is all about? Comb renewal? Crush and strain? New, fresh, well attached natural comb?



Yes, but when we're talking about brand new brood in brand new comb, there is more of an incentive to keep them running - Mike


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## mrobinson (Jan 20, 2012)

A few more photos from different angles would help; perhaps a few illustrations of construction. Show me the cloth sitting next to the bar, then a couple of the steps of construction. Then, "okay, I've got the hive and I'm looking at this bar and it's got a problem ... what do I do?" Have I got a staple-gun in my hand and I just sit there with all those bees buzzing around and _ka-thunk?_ Would it work if the cloth were bent into a sort of three-sided box that could just _hang_ on the top of the bar, maybe slightly lipping-over the other side to hold it in place without staples?

I could certainly make a small box-full of these gadgets for a rainy day ...


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## beepopnc (Jan 10, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> ...a simple thing that works really well: get a small piece (about 4x10 depending on your top bars) of 1/2 x1" mesh hardware cloth - commomly used for rabbit cages. And bend it into a 10" long U squared off U shape 1x2x1 x10 long. Hang it over a top bar so that one arm is laying on top, and the bottom 1" arm is horizontal. - the U is sideways....
> 
> David,
> I'm a new beek and did my first (10 day) inspection of my two KTBH's today. Thanks for sharing this! I was concerned about breaking the fragile new combs, so I built myself a couple of these and stapled them to TB's...just as an insurance policy. I felt much more confident having them...the timing of your post couldn't have been better. Best part...each had drawn six perfectly straight combs, found the queens, have brood and no breakage!!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Sounds like you're on your way - and ahead of the game. I'm amazed at how many 2nd year bee keepers still aren't 100% sure what brood looks like....

You should start planning your first split now.... another topic though.

Congratulations.

And BTW - proof of concept...










Sorry for the cell phone camera quality...


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

how much gap do you find that introduces between bars? unless very flat, couldn't you get about 1/8" - MIke


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Sure, maybe even more than 1/8". But the main thing is that the center of the tied in comb is as close to possible to the center of the bar - and that is up to how you arrange it when you hang it. 

In a few days you can take the hanger out, and if it has caused something to be a bit out of whack you can tweak the comb a bit. Tied in comb often ends up being a bit imperfect - for that matter so does any comb - but it keeps from wasting valuable brood. Honey comb is not nearly as valuable, and might not be worth the trouble. Once the hive is going you can move it away from the brood nest and after the brood emerges you can take it out if it is a problem. 

If the actual gap is what you are worried about, it probably isn't going to be a problem - the bees are going to either use it as a passage or fill it with propolis or wax, just like they do any crack. If you are afraid it will keep you from being able to get the lid off - it won't - but you can cover it with a sheet of plastic, or something - feed sack works good. 

Nothing is perfect, but if you have ever done any tie ins, and you try this simple device you will see that it generally solves more problems than it creates - especially for top bar hives.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

I will be doing a cut-out on Monday and transferring the comb from the hive to a top bar hive that I will bring on location. I have never done this operation before using the hairclips but I did get some of the top bars ready last night with the clips and tie-wraps. 

I noticed that you cannot tighten the tie-wraps all the way until the comb is attached because you cannot open the clip with it bunched-up too tight against the top bar. I'm just making sure that's how you all do it as well - that you have to tighten the tie-wraps AFTER you clip the comb to the hairclip.

I really wanted to get some of the hardware cloth that was shown previously, but a roll of that stuff at Lowe's was about 16 bucks. I'm in frugal mode right now so I didn't purchase it.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

PatBeek said:


> I will be doing a cut-out on Monday and transferring the comb from the hive to a top bar hive that I will bring on location. I have never done this operation before using the hairclips but I did get some of the top bars ready last night with the clips and tie-wraps.
> 
> I noticed that you cannot tighten the tie-wraps all the way until the comb is attached because you cannot open the clip with it bunched-up too tight against the top bar. I'm just making sure that's how you all do it as well - that you have to tighten the tie-wraps AFTER you clip the comb to the hairclip.
> 
> I really wanted to get some of the hardware cloth that was shown previously, but a roll of that stuff at Lowe's was about 16 bucks. I'm in frugal mode right now so I didn't purchase it.


Yes, attach the clip and then tighten the tie wraps.
If you've watched McCartneys videos about fixing comb, you'll see that both him and his nephews have trouble getting them open.
When I had to cut my hive off the top bars, we really mucked it up. Everything worked out OK afterward though.
Put your clips closer together than I did in the videos of mine.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Steven Ogborn said:


> Yes, attach the clip and then tighten the tie wraps.


Do you mean attach the COMB to the clips and then tighten the tie wraps?



Steven Ogborn said:


> If you've watched McCartneys videos about fixing comb, you'll see that both him and his nephews have trouble getting them open.


Where can I find those - on youtube or are they archived here? (Edit): I found this answer by doing a search on these forums:


> McCartney Taylor's videos are real
> helpful. His You-Tube channel is Outofabluesky.





Steven Ogborn said:


> Put your clips closer together than I did in the videos of mine.


I'd love to see your videos also. Where can I find them?


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

Patbeek,

The videos my son took are on You-tube also. You-tube/user/OgbornsApiaries.
See if you can tell what I did wrong (beekeeping wise) in them.
Don't forget to laugh at them. It won't hurt my feelings.

Oh yeah, Yes. Clamp the clip(s) into the comb, then tighten the zip-ties up (not too tight).
I like the 3" straight Goodys brand clips.
I recommend getting a helper. Wide new combs are soft. You really need two hands just
to hold the comb and someone else to get the clamps and bar on.


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

I use rubberbands a lot faster and easier. Big read ones from staples cheap and strong. Stand it up and leave it the bees do the rest.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Unfortunately, rubber bands don't hold comb in a TBH well at all...more importantly, however, the bees will often tear apart the rubber bands too soon (even in a Lang. frame), resulting in crushed comb @ the bottom of your hive...attached pic was taken about 36hrs after rubber-band splicing comb into the frame...what a mess!


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