# Timing of a split, when is it best?



## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

Here in CA, we didn't have much of a winter. Blooming started in January here.

In early February, I inspected and noticed that the top box was just about full and the bottom box was completely empty. So I reversed the boxes. In March, I inspected and saw 3 queen cells in the top box (formerly the empty bottom box). They were at the top of one of the frames. I spotted the queen and noticed that she is not my original queen, as this one was not marked. To my knowledge, I did not have a swarm, but they obviously replaced her for some reason. The hive population was great.

Then I began contemplating splitting the hive, or adding the super early and hoping they don't swarm. Everything I read on splitting said to do it right before the main pollen flow. I've never split a hive, and there were so many different methods people use, that I felt a bit out of my comfort zone and not sure what method to use to split the hive. Plus, we were well past the start of the flowering season. I tried to contact the beekeeper I bought my bees from to ask his opinion, but no response. I do have the ability to purchase a queen from him if I were to split the hive.

In early April, the top box was filling up nicely, but not quite full enough. I added the super, and in it were 2 thawed partial frames of honey from last year. Since then, the bees have been bringing in tons of pollen, and last week I noticed the first blackberry blooms. So we will soon be exploding in blackberry flowers. I haven't inspected the super yet, but will do so in the next couple of weeks to see how quickly it is filling up. (comb is already drawn from last year)

So, when is the right time to split a hive? I would like a 2nd hive, and plan to get another hive bottom and deep box just in case they do decide to swarm, so I can try to catch it.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

michkel said:


> Everything I read on splitting said to do it right before the main pollen flow.


I would do it before nectar not pollen but some wait until the flow is over. The best time is goal related and how you feel about feeding.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

I have not read about, or watched any videos about the On The Spot Queen Raising technique of splitting hives you might want to google it and spend some time learning that particular method. Also, Michael Bush's web site has quite a bit of information.

Timing might be area specific. Not sure if Placer County is warming up or still inclined to freeze at night. Certainly, you want to make splits when the conditions are best for survival - so nectar an pollen flow are important. You might have to feed a new split for awhile depending upon how you do it and what is provided.

Don't be afraid to try making some splits. I think you will be surprised how simple - and fun - it is and then you'll have to decide when to stop before you have more than you want or can handle.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

At the start of blackberry flow is a great time to raise queens or make splits, so now would be a good time to do either. The blackberries are starting here as well, one of the best times of any year for bee keeping.


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

orthoman said:


> I have not read about, or watched any videos about the On The Spot Queen Raising technique of splitting hives you might want to google it and spend some time learning that particular method. Also, Michael Bush's web site has quite a bit of information.
> 
> Timing might be area specific. Not sure if Placer County is warming up or still inclined to freeze at night. Certainly, you want to make splits when the conditions are best for survival - so nectar an pollen flow are important. You might have to feed a new split for awhile depending upon how you do it and what is provided.
> 
> Don't be afraid to try making some splits. I think you will be surprised how simple - and fun - it is and then you'll have to decide when to stop before you have more than you want or can handle.


I will search that technique, thank you. I don't mind feeding the new colony.

We did have 1 week of a freeze a few weeks ago, but other than that, our weather has been great. Forecast is to be in the mid 80's all this week.

Will a split affect the honey production in my current hive? Can I make a split without splitting the entire broodchamber? (currently 2 deeps)


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

RayMarler said:


> At the start of blackberry flow is a great time to raise queens or make splits, so now would be a good time to do either. The blackberries are starting here as well, one of the best times of any year for bee keeping.


Thank you.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

michkel said:


> Can I make a split without splitting the entire broodchamber? (currently 2 deeps)


Go to Michael's site. He has all the options on splitting and their purpose.


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

Acebird said:


> Go to Michael's site. He has all the options on splitting and their purpose.


I read that after I posted. Thank you. Now I just have to decide whether to give up some honey production to split them.:scratch:


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

Alright, I did an inspection of my hive today. My bee population is very strong, and I was surprised at the numbers. They are actively working the super. I removed the super and inspected the top box (2 deep) of the hive. Lots of bees and brood, pollen, eggs, etc. I did find some queen cups along the bottom of a couple of frames, but they are empty. (no egg or larva) They still have room (the 2 outer frames on each side are empty still).

So, does this mean they are preparing to swarm? Or at least thinking of it in the future? I'm considering splitting the hive (I do want to have a 2nd hive), and I've been looking at a walkaway split with a purchased queen, but if they fill the queen cups, then I can have them raise their own. I don't want to split the brood chambers completely in half, as I still want a honey harvest this year. Blackberries are just starting to bloom, so it's about to get super busy here.

How soon after they build the queen cups will there be an egg laid in them? Should I be preparing to split them really soon?


If/when I split them, and I remove brood, eggs and honey. I'm assuming I put the empty frames on the outside of the hive and not where I removed them from? Or do I replace the ones I take with frames with foundation?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Just because they have a couple of cups doesn't mean they are preparing to swarm. If you split and stay ahead of the parent colony they might not swarm this year.


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## Beelosopher (Sep 6, 2012)

In my area (and of course when to split is very area specific), I waited until dandelion bloom. Last year that was around May 9th I think. 

In NY or any other area here are things I think should be considered for your split time:
1. Low risk of super cold nights or cold snaps (brood chilling can waste resources).
2. Plenty of pollen available
3. Flow doesn't hurt, but my nucs are usually starting as queen rearing nucs so they aren't bee heavy (in short, I feed them to reduce the stress on the bee workforce).


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

Beelosopher said:


> In my area (and of course when to split is very area specific), I waited until dandelion bloom. Last year that was around May 9th I think.
> 
> In NY or any other area here are things I think should be considered for your split time:
> 1. Low risk of super cold nights or cold snaps (brood chilling can waste resources).
> ...



We have been in bloom since January. Blackberries (the main summer source) are starting to bloom. We had a brief cold snap about 3 weeks ago, but it's been really warm since. (high 70's to low 80's)


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## GOHoney (Jun 19, 2013)

I ended up with an extra queen and a strong hive three weeks ago, so I started a nuc from the strong hive. I checked them today and they are doing fine.


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

Any advise for my predicament here?
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...a-split-when-is-it-best&p=1259821#post1259821


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## Beelosopher (Sep 6, 2012)

michkel said:


> We have been in bloom since January. Blackberries (the main summer source) are starting to bloom. We had a brief cold snap about 3 weeks ago, but it's been really warm since. (high 70's to low 80's)



Sounds like you are good to go for splitting from a weather perspective.

a few queen cups are common to see in a hive. So long as no egg/royal jelly is present you should be business as usual.


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