# cutout checklist



## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

I have done several cutouts already, but I've got a bigger one coming up this weekend. Bees are in a joist cavity on the back side of a house with good accessibility. Brick first floor, vertical vinyl siding second floor. Looks like a good sized hive and they may be in multiple joist cavities, won't know till I start opening. Most cutouts I've done have been smaller colonies or recent swarm move-ins, I'm anticipating this to be my biggest yet. Bees have been there at least since last year, and we have been on full flow for weeks now. Those with experience, check my checklist:
Bushkill style vacuum I've used once with good results
3 deep boxes, maybe a few mediums for insurance
frames, rubber bands
several totes containers with lids for honeycomb and any junk
sugar water spray bottle... bad idea with vacuum?
no smoker since using a vacuum
implements of destruction (saws, hammers, prybars etc)
tarp for under work area
rubber gloves
bucket of water

Anything major I'm forgetting? Job is about 15-20 minutes away, so I can always get more supplies if needed mid job, but don't want to leave if I don't have to. I do use a contract for removals.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Maybe a beesuit? I'd still bring the smoker.........


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## SigmaBee (Apr 3, 2016)

Extension cords, ladder


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## Outdoor N8 (Aug 7, 2015)

A good flashlight and a headlight, a serrated knife, bee replant if you have it.

fwiw: I personally would use the sugar syrup spray on the foundation in your comb box. And on the bees only through the top/traveling screen to help de-stress them, definitely not on anything going down the vacuum.


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## dadux (Feb 23, 2012)

Here is my list. I just cross things out that I know I won't need.

Kit:
Queen cage
Smoker, lighter & fuel
Rubber bands
Duct Tape
Lemon grass oil
Cotton Swabs
Unkers
Knife
Hive tool
Bee brush
Latex Gloves
Leather Gloves
Screen for entrance
2 Shop towels (1 wet)

Bee suit/jacket
Pans/Bucket n bag n lid for honey
Buckets w lids for comb
Super w Empty frames for brood
Super w Foundation/Comb frames
Frame of Honey
Bottom board, inner & outer cover
Ratchet straps
Bee Vac & hoses
Lath plug for entrance (vacuum rig)

Tools
Chainsaw or sawzall
Hammer
Wonder Bar
Screw gun & screws?
Other tools?
Ladders?
3’ Ladder?
6' Ladder
Extension?
Scaffold?

Misc:
Bee quick
Sugar water?
Hive stand/Wall support
Extension cords
Quad Box
Drop/clip light
Headlight
Rope, etc?
Tripod & Camera
Drinking Water
Dust Mask


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

Thanks for the input. I didn't have ladders, extension cords, and bee suit listed because i figure those are a given, and I was in a hurry to type before my coworkers reamed me out for using the work computer... Hadn't thought about headlamp though, good idea there. Its gonna be hot here and I have a vent suit, but I might wear a camelback under it for water. I'll post some pics when I get done.


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## dadux (Feb 23, 2012)

Ha ha! Yes those are a given until you forget 1 and have to go get it. Especially if you are in a time crunch. Murphy's law applies to bee keeping. Or perhaps Murphy was a bee keeper too.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Most of all .... A helper!!!


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

snl said:


> Most of all .... A helper!!!


Otherwise known (when said helper is out of earshot), as 'the primary target'.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

An invoice to present to the owner(s).
I've found the Fein multimaster multitool to be about the best tool I could have for cutouts. It doesn't make the bees nuts like a sawzall does. I also don't use sugar water or any repellent/lemon stuff etc. I start smoking the bees heavily as the very first step and I keep the smoker going even if it's a little whiff once every few minutes. I think this makes the bees fill up on honey and makes them really think it's time to move out. I had the remaining bees in a hive that I cut out about two months ago abscond just as I was about to vacuum them up. It was a big colony and there was a good clump of bees that I had trouble getting to. I put an extension on my vacuum and started putting into the access hole and all of a sudden the bees just started falling out. It was a mad house. 
I also bought a small endoscope for my smart phone. It is a low quality camera but for about $25.00 it has done a much better job that I expected. On one job it helped me locate the hive inside a wall with a stone veneer . It saved me from possibly having to remove more of the stone than needed. I removed the bare minimum and this made things go much easier.
Good luck.
Oh, BTW - a chain saw? Yikes? I've never had the notion of using a chainsaw on a building cut out. I don't even like to use a sawzall if I can help it. I try and keep the bees interested in moving out and as uninterested in me as possible. Once you get them into the kill the labor mode it's a much more time consuming affair. Just my .02


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

I've got a helper coming with me on this one. I did a cutout in April that seemed straightforward: real easy access, only had to take off a few pieces of cedar siding, colony wasn't real big. Turned into a rough day. That was the hottest hive i've ever seen. We don't have africanized here, but good lord. I had a cheap veil and disposable painters coveralls. 2 hrs and over 100 stings later the job was done. I went straight home and ponied up the cash for the vent suit. Now my helper is the one going to be wearing the painters suit. I warned him, but he is rarin' to go. Gotta learn sometime.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Nice. I've never had a two hour cut out. I may have thought 2-3 hours but finished in 4-6.
Smoke them good imo. I doubt you will get so lit up if you get them into the mood to abscond.


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

Smaller than I expected. bees had abandoned the old comb and started over in the joist cavity next to it. Brought the bee vac but didn't end up using it. cut the comb, tied it in, found the queen. Decent laying pattern. Done on site in 3 hrs. Would have been a lot faster if I had known it was going to be so small, didn't end up using half of what I brought. Still have to account for the hour packing up, half hour unpacking, and another trip out there tonight to collect the box. And my help didn't come afterall.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Glad it went well. 
That's some strange looking construction. Maybe I'm not getting a good perspective? 
The butt end of the joists just ended against the siding? No band joist? Almost looks like balloon framing but I see nail holes in the end of the joists? 
Do you charge for these removals? Just wondering.


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

Band joist had already been removed in the picture. This left two joist spans in the corner of the master bedroom without end supports, but they are supported by the first floor wall studs directly behind, and they are blocked to one another about 3 ft back. I cut the band joist midway on a floor joist to the right so they can be tied back together on structure. Homeowner was comfortable with the situation and will schedule repairs. I use a removal contract that spells out removal process and states that I will not be responsible for repairs resulting from removal. I do charge for the service. usually I bid based on $100/hr on the job site. This averages less over the full job because the full cost of the job includes multiple driving trips to and from, the gathering of equipment and supplies, the hive equipment, etc. These incidentals can add several hours to the job time and I have found this rate covers my time for the "behind the scenes" work the physical removal doesn't account for.

Incidentally, these were the calmest bees I have ever seen. They didn't even get testy until I cut the second to last comb out of the cavity. Even then, they just circled me for a minute or two and went right into the box when I carried it over. I left the box on site till about 9:30 to catch the remainder foragers. I sprayed some honey robber into the back of the cavity, and there was not a single bee in there when I came back last night.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Excellent job IMO. I appreciate the answers to my other questions as well. After posting I thought you may feel I was questioning your methods, business etc etc. I was not but it could have been taken that way as internet/forum posts are difficult to interpret when read instead of heard IYKWIM. 
I hope anyone that's trying to get some education on cut outs comes across this thread. You obviously have this down pat and there isn't anything I could add for anyoneooking for info. 
I do the same as you except I offer the reconstruction too. Sometimes I wish I didn't but it generally brings better money for the complete package. I am lacking a ccomprehensive contract. Would you be able to point me toward how you acquired yours? 
Many thanks.


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

Thanks for the compliment. I'm still kinda new at some of this and anticipate being flamed on things now and then. This was just my 4th solo cutout and I've done a few trap outs as well. So far I've been trying to stick with the methods I glean from here and talking to others in the business. I'm not opposed to quoting the rebuild of things, but I'm trying to stay away from it for the most part for now. I'd hate to put it back together and get a call 3 months later that there is a leak and now their house has mold. *shudder* For that matter, I'm considering making this a more legitimate business with insurance and such. This is my year to figure out if that is the right path for me. I'm using the contract to help limit my liability until I get to that point. I googled bee removal contract and pulled out from the results what I felt are the most pertinent points for what I'm getting into. most important parts are release from liability for stings, ownership of the hive/comb, release of liability for property damage intentional or accidental, release of liability to the property owner for my own injury if I fall off a ladder or something.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

FWIW- insurance is very cheap at about $600.00/year.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Beebeard said:


> I googled bee removal contract and pulled out from the results what I felt are the most pertinent points for what I'm getting into. most important parts are release from liability for stings, ownership of the hive/comb, release of liability for property damage intentional or accidental, release of liability to the property owner for my own injury if I fall off a ladder or something.


Care to share what you came up with as your final contract? Obviously each state is different, but I'd be interested in what you are using. Nice work on the cutout by the way. You made it look/sound easy.


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

Here is what I use, I actually have the same one with different fees, as if it is straight forward and easy its 50.00 an hour, if it is second story, or in a crawl space, or other more difficult its usually 100.00. An hour. If they have been sprayed more. I also offer make addendum like its 50.00 an hour but will not go over 250.00.


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