# What to charge for Apitherapy?



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Just curious....... Do you have liability insurance for this???? If you don't..... you had better get some!!

Talk to your lawyer and/or insurance agent. It is a noble calling but cover your arse....


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

I would sell her a jar of bees for pet use only or scientific study, would not sell any for apitherapy or alternative medicanal use.


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

I would charge for pollination rental with a written contract. She could have your management of the bees at her house for pollination of her crops. What she does from there is her own business. It could even be a simply built obs hive with trap door to remove a limited number of bees.

Other option would be they could trespass upon your property.

I am an RN, so I would be even more careful than most, but also more willing to help


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

No matter what "story" you come up with.... make sure your insurance will handle the fallout.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I donate bees to 2 women that have MS and just give them the bees. What they do with them is there business. No liability for me but have sold much honey to people that these 2 women have sent to me.
One woman could hardly walk 2 years ago but now you can hardly tell that she has a problem. The other it has not helped as much but she does say that she has less pain.
so far I have not missed the small amount of bees given them.
Clint


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Here's the scenario......

Person you give, rent, whatever,,, bees too is fine stinging themselves. Then, like many we have heard, the next sting is anaphalactic shock and passes away.

You can bet there will be a law suit and you will have to "lie" that you did not know what they were used for. A good paralegal would probably search this very site.....

Why risk it if you butt can be covered by insurance??

Good luck.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I have one lady with early MS who comes for bees. I give them to her at no charge. She's kind of a friend and has offered to pay. She does buy honey.

I also have liability insurance, but it's a "premises and product" policy. I have no idea if it covers her choice in what she does with them in her house, but I'm going to ask my agent.

Also, I used to shake bees into her gallon jar. She made up some kind of bee food of honey and water soaking on a paper towel in the bottom of the jar, and had the leftover cores from toilet paper rolls for the bees to climb on. Death rates for the bees were high and she would come back frequently for another shaking.

I made a wire cage to hold one frame from 8-mesh wire. It looks like a long package for package bees with a removable lid. I pull a frame of honey stores and bees and set it into the cage for her to take home. Survivability greatly increased.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## AndrewSchwab (Dec 9, 2005)

I say a good beer, or better yet some single malt scotch.


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

Sundance, I have never heard a first person account of anaphylaxis after being stung regularly so I am not accepting of the "like many we have heard" statement. 

I do regularly here people claim an "allergy" problem from bee stings without them knowing what the bee was or without them having a breathng problem.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

I have heard of people that get stung a lot and then they get a severe reaction all of the sudden. It is true. Sundance is right, what if that person passes away ??? Then you don't have to worry about it right ?? Well... fine and dandy...untill you start dealing with that families very upset, very money-hungry relatives, that don't give a crap what you think or say about the situation. They will let their lawyers take care of you. And like most beeks I know, theres not a lot of extra attorney money floating around too pay off a lawsuit. So in my opinion I wouldn't mess with these people at all.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Boy Sundance is all over the liability issue. Probably not a bad idea, perhaps it comes from having been stung a few times, and I don't mean by bees!

Now for the Other Perspective.

There's a big difference between performing apitherapy yourself and providing bees to someone so they can perform apitherapy on themselves or other people. In the former case, your liability is high and you should cover yourself appropriately.

In the latter case of just supplying bees to other people, where's the liability? If you make knives and sell one to someone and they commit a crime with it, are you liable? No. If you sell a gun to someone and observe all the laws in making that sale and they use the gun in a crime, are you liable? No. If you sell someone some bees and they sting themselves or someone else and a death occurs, are you liable? No. If you sell peanuts to someone and it turns out they're allergic to them and they eat them and die, are you liable? No. Would any jury in the land find you guilty of negligence for failing to acertain whether or not your customer was allergic to peanuts (or bees, or bullets, or knives) before selling them some? Not bloody likely!

Is a civil suit a possibility in any of the above cases? Sure. Is insurance going to eliminate that risk? No. It's going to increase the chances you'll be sued! You can get sued for walking down the street carrying a placard that distracts a passing motorist so they get in an accident. Should you obtain insurance before walking down the street with that placard? Your call









I'll grant we live in a litigious society, but the main reason why it has become so litigious is because of insurance! Insurance is the reason many frivolous lawsuits are brought in the first place! Would you bother suing someone if you knew they weren't insured? Probably not, you don't want their trailer or their pickup truck, you want money and lots of it- enough to pay the outrageous lawyer fees associated with collecting it! Would you persist with your lawsuit when you found out they weren't insured? Probably not!

Kinda makes you want to become an insurance agent, eh?

Hey here's an idea! Obtain a huge insurance policy covering yourself for negligence in the event your bees sting someone. Surreptitiously find someone and arrange with them to get stung, then sue you. Agree to split the proceeds from the huge insurance settlement resulting from the lawsuit. Probably a good idea to first open a Swiss bank account for the purpose.

Oops! I think that's fraud


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## Bill Ruble (Jan 2, 2006)

Kinda makes you want to become an insurance agent, eh?


Hey, I thought there for a minute sundance WAS an insurance agent!!!


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Hey, I thought there for a minute sundance WAS an insurance agent!!!

Nah, Sundance is too nice a guy and too honest to be an insurance agent. I like Bruce. I wouldn't like him if he were an insurance agent


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

LOL.......... Not an insurance agent for sure. In fact I hate paying insurance!!! 

That said, I have in fact been sued. I sold a black powder gun to a guy. He screwed up loading it and BAM, it blew up in his face. I was thankful my homeowners covered the whole incident.

Umbrella policys of a million dollars are not as expensive as you might think. After the above incident..... I'll never be without one.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks for the kind words George!! I feel a group hug coming on........


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

"If you make knives and sell one to someone and they commit a crime with it, are you liable? No. If you sell a gun to someone and observe all the laws in making that sale and they use the gun in a crime, are you liable? No."

Good points, but laywers can be hired to litigate against common sense. Happens all the time.

Keith

Bees dont kill people, people kill people.

You can have my bees when you pry them from my cold dead hands


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## newbee 101 (May 26, 2004)

I would make them sign a waiver, stating that you are in no way,liable for any injuries incurred with these bees. If you buy a package of bees and get stung badly, maybe even hospitalized, are you going to sue the guy who sold you the bees? Is he liable? I dont think so.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

There is a major difference in selling bees to a beekeeper and selling bees for medical purposes. A whole plane of liability opens.

As to waivers....... most will tell you they aren't worth the paper they are made of. In fact it is often seen as an admission that you knew of the inherant danger of bee stings, yet did it anyway.

Do the waiver, but have insurance.


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## Man O' War (Jul 11, 2005)

Set up a hive in her yard . . .

Give her one big jar of honey for rental of the
space. If anything bad happens, you had no
idea that she was taking bees from it <wink>


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Good idea Man O' War, why you could probably even sue her (if she didn't die) for stealing your bees!

>laywers can be hired to litigate against common sense.

Too true Keith. In similar fashion, politicians can be hired to legislate against common sense and insurance companies can be hired to insure against common sense. As you say, it happens all the time.

My father used to say that society gets the kind of crime it deserves. I think the same principle is at work in these situations.

>That said, I have in fact been sued.

I figured as much. People whose first thought is "Get Insurance" usually have been sued









Sorry to about it too. Where did the concept of personal responsibility for one's own actions go? Had you not been insured and the case went to court, would the jury have awarded the man your house? Interesting question.

>As to waivers....... most will tell you they aren't worth the paper they are made of.

So true. Not all waivers fit that bill, but many of them do. There have been a number of cases settled by the courts in favor of people who had signed away their rights and ended up damaged. A famous case involved a railroad that printed a waiver on the back side of their tickets stating that if there was a train accident, the bearer of the ticket better get their body off the tracks and outside of the railroad right of way so as not to interfere with railroad business. The waiver was supposedly in-force when someone bought the ticket. The court decided otherwise.

Similar laws were put in place to eliminate practices on the part of employers that had prospective employees sign away their rights as a condition of employment. The courts held that a person was entitled to sign anything to get a job to feed their family.

So I wouldn't put much faith in waivers to absolve you from liability, either real, or perceived.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

People often say "you can't get blood out of a rock". Trouble is that even though you may not have much a judgement can garnish future earning for the rest of your life....

Man O War... good solution.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>a judgement can garnish future earning for the rest of your life....

In such a situation one might be inclined to take matters into one's own hands. Or, change your name, get a wig, sunglasses, and a sex change operation.

If one is negligent or otherwise at cause for someone's misfortune, then one should be held responsible. The situation has developed now where people live in fear of being held responsible for things that are not their fault at all. Insurance makes it all possible. Lawyers are the instruments of injustice. The innocent are held accountable. Society is to blame.

Now I'm depressed. It's time for a nap.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Me too George


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"you can't get blood out of a rock"?
Isn't that supposed to be "blood out of a turnip"?
And "water out of a stone"?
Or is that "you can't get the troops out of a rock"?


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Mark........ There should be punishment for post like that!!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oops. Sorry!










[ April 08, 2006, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: sqkcrk ]


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

every beek should have insurance anyway. the chances that you'll actually use might be slim but you never know and it's usually when you have no insurance that something happens. i have insurance through the bchpa but the only thing they do not cover is injury through apitherapy. i suppose you could get insurance for this somewhere but if you did why not get into it yourself


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I think you aught to charge your sting customer enough to cover any costs of the extra insurance that you feel you will need to cover yourself.

Then she'll be glad to get them from across the other side of the country.

'Course, you could always sell her a hive of bees and let her deal with all of your expenses herself.

Barring all of that, have you given any thought to contacting the American Apitherapy Society? Maybe they could provide you with some guidelines and advice.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Mark........ There should be punishment for post like that!!!

Humor has it's own rewards. No honest attempt at it will go unpunished.

>Barring all of that, have you given any thought to contacting the American Apitherapy Society?

Duh. Wouldn't that be like, uh, smart?

Here's a twist. What if someone approached you to obtain bees for apitherapy and you refused, could they then sue you for willfully withholding necessary supplies for their treatment thereby increasing their pain and suffering?

Only in America I suppose. It's like that last Seinfeld episode where the 4 of them get arrested in a small New Hampshire town for failing to come to the aid of a person whose car was being stolen. Will the "I don't want to get involved" argument protect us from liability?


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## NHbees (Feb 10, 2004)

Wow I thought I was asking a simple question







.

Thanks for all the replies, I will check with my insurance agent. I did get insurance for the bees and products, it will be interesting if the sale of bees is covered. I wonder if this can be considered product liability. Really all I am doing is selling (probably giving as I like the responses from other beekeepers that do this,and maybe she will send me honey sales) her bees, she is the one that decides to use them to sting herself.

This lady began this some years ago under the direction of her Dr. it worked so well he advised her to get real bees from a beekeeper as opposed to paying for the injection in the doc's office.

Mark great idea on the American Apitherapy Society, I will try to email them this weekend.

Thanks Again for all the replies


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

De nada.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

While taking my nap, I had a nightmare of a dream:

Ring! Ring!

"Good day, you've reached the law offices of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe. This is Crystal speaking, how may we be of service?"

"Uh Hi. I want to sue someone."

"OK sir, let me get one of our partners to talk with you. Please hold."

<pirated royalty-free music being played. A few moments go by..>

"Hello, This is Bud Tugly, Bill Cheatem's personal assistant. I understand you want to sue someone?"

"Uh Hi. Yes."

"Anyone in particular?"

"Uh I dunno. I guess. My life sucks. I've had the flu for 3 weeks, I lost my job. My truck caught on fire, my wife left me, and my dog died. I'm broke and depressed. I need money to ease my pain and suffering. So I thought I'd sue someone."

"Well OK... Flu, job, truck, wife, dog. Let's see. You say you caught the flu. Any idea who you caught it from? We might be able to sue them if we could prove they didn't wash their hands or sneezed on you or something."

"Well, I think I caught it from my mother."

"Oh. I don't suppose you want to sue her. Well, tell me about your job."

"Well, I got drunk at the company picnic and groped the boss's wife. They fired me the next day."

"Oh. I see. What about the truck?"

"Well, I was burning brush in my backyard, the wind came up and fanned the flames and my truck caught on fire. It's ruined."

"Um.. I don't suppose you had insurance that covered that. OK, what about your wife?"

"Well she's divorcing me over that boss's wife thing and a few other indiscretions. Your firm is handling the divorce. She gave me your number."

"OK, we won't go there. What about your dog?"

"Oh, I'm so sad. We were out hunting, ran across a bee hive and the dog got stung to death."

"Stung to death? Just like that?"

"Well, actually, he was just in a lot of pain, yelpin and everything, so I shot him to put him out of his misery."

"Oh. So he didn't really get stung to death. Was he mad?"

"Well, I guess he warn't too darn pleased."

"I see. Did you get stung? Did you have an allergic reaction? Were there any warning or danger signs around the hive? Do you know who the owner of the hive is? Are they rich? Do they have insurance?"

"Well, I swelled up something powerful, and it itched awful. Like to scratch myself raw. I know the beekeeper, he's my neighbor. Owns a nice house, a double wide. Even took the wheels off it and everything. Sploded tires and flamingos on the lawn, you know. There ain't no signs saying Keep Out so I figured it was OK to be there."

"What about insurance?"

"Oh, he's got insurance. We talked about it the other day after he helped put my truck fire out. We used his hose, good thing too cause mine wouldn't reach and my garage woulda caught on fire. He was complaining about how much insurance cost these days."

"Well sir, I think we can make a case here for aggravated pain and suffering and the loss of your dog as the result of negligence on the part of the owner of the bees. We'll take this case on contingency so you won't have to pay a dime unless we collect. We'll take 80% of whatever we can get outa this guy. You get the other 20%."

"Well I don't really want to sue him.. he's a nice guy. Gives me a jar of honey every year."

"Don't worry about it sir. That's why he's got insurance, to compensate people like you who've been damaged through his negligence. To ease your pain and suffering. Look at it this way. You're a victim. You've lost your truck, your dog, your wife, and by the time we're through, your wife and your house. You've got nothing. He's got everything. You DESERVE to be compensated. It's the American Way.

"Hey that's great! I feel better already!"

"Glad to hear it. We'll get back to you. I've got to take another call, I think it's your wife. She'll be interested to know you're about to come into a large sum of money."


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## newbee 101 (May 26, 2004)

I dont think anyone here (myself included) has answered the topic: How much to charge for Apitherapy ?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm certainly not a lawyer, but it seem to me that people sell bees (and have for as long as people have kept bees an coined money) and what the buyer does with them is their responsibility. If you don't go around making any medicinal claims about anything, then you're just selling bees, which is an honorable and honest profession with a long history.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Exactly.... Sell some bees. No claims, no worries.

If you hang a shingle touting to "therapy" anything........ get insurance.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How much to charge for Apitherapy ?

I guess that depends on your point of view. Somewhere between what the market will bear and what it's worth to you.


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## Tom Chaudoir (Nov 20, 2005)

When I read the first posting in this thread, my answer was very clear. Give her the bees at no charge. I was happy with that thought.

Then the legal questions arose. Still no big problem. Someone asked for bees. They got them. I didn't make any money. I certainly wasn't out to hurt them.

Then came:


> Here's a twist. What if someone approached you to obtain bees for apitherapy and you refused, could they then sue you for willfully withholding necessary supplies for their treatment thereby increasing their pain and suffering?


Now my simple vision has become so complicated that I can't sleep. My appetite is gone due to mental stress. I may not go to work on Monday, or ever again. Thanks, George. Watch your mail box for a letter from my attorney.

Kidding aside now:
The lady has MS. She is living a disaster. Even if apitherapy is bogus, living with a bit of hope is better than no hope. Give her some bees or put a hive in her yard. Take up a collection for your costs right here. I'll kick in $20 if you agree to do it that way. I'm sure others will contribute. Just post your paypal details.

Late edit:
She doesn't have MS. I was thinking of another thread. Still, arthritis is terrible. Give her that hope. I'll still kick in.

[ April 08, 2006, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Tom Chaudoir ]


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Well first, let me apologize for my somewhat caustic contributions to this thread- it happens whenever people start talking liability and insurance. I should just walk away from the discussion as I walked away from a perfectly good career (land surveying) after 20 years in the business in large part due to concerns over liability which you really can't realistically insure against. That was 10 years ago. The statute of limitations on errors and ommissions is currently 20 years AFTER the mistake is discovered, so it looks like I'll be taking that liability to my grave. But I don't worry about it, because I always tried to do my very best on every job even when it cost me money and made me uncompetitive- yet another reason why I left the field.

For what it's worth, I've never been sued for my surveying activities and I don't expect it to happen now. I believe in and carry insurance when there's a palpable and undeniable risk associated with an activity I'm engaged in that might realistically damage other innocent 3rd parties or when required by law to do so such as on my car and truck. I do not insure myself against loss for my own acts or those of God. At my wife's insistance I carry enough life insurance to cover the costs of disposing of my body upon my death and paying off my home mortgage. I currently do not have health insurance, I can't afford it. This bothers me, and I obtain no satisfaction knowing that I am not alone in this regard. Call me naive, call me old fashioned, but I choose to insure against real risks and choose NOT to buy into or support the mass liability hysteria, fear, and loathing that has this country in such a death-grip.

Go to any big city. Find the biggest building. It will be an insurance company. Not a university or school, not a church, not a hospital, but an insurance company. I think that's significant.

So when a question comes up about how much to charge someone for bees that they intend to sting themselves with for the purpose of obtaining relief from their pain and suffering, and the only thing people can think about is their own personal liability, I get pissy. Again, I'm sorry. I apologize.


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## Tom Chaudoir (Nov 20, 2005)

Nuts. Sorry George. I should have peppered in a few of these 







I really wasn't taking you to task. Sometimes things morph on the way from head to screen.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Oh heck Tom, I got a kick out of your post, it was in the spirit of the insanity I myself was ranting about. It was perfect







I mean, what a dilemna: fear of being sued if you sell bees to someone, angst over being sued for NOT selling those same bees to someone, I mean, it's amazing we all have the courage to get up out of bed in the morning- without insurance against a bad day of course, or ruining someone else's day









Gosh I also hope nobody thought I was looking for sympathy! I like my miserable little existance. Wouldn't trade with anyone


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

You do not know what the bees will be used for, do not allow her to tell you. Leave no record of that knowledge. Just give the lady some bees as a "curiosity" and see if she wants to buy a quart of honey. Also see if she wants to buy an observation colony as a curiosity and pollination. Teach her how to remove individual bees for mite inspections.

The most important part of this topic is that people that want bees for apitherapy should be able to get them easily. However, there is no reason that you need to know what the bees are for. Why would you need to know? The more you talk about it with insurance agents, and in public forums, email, etc. the more records you are creating that state you may know what the bees were used for. There is an edit function for previous posts.

A buddy of mine and I onced asked a guy if we could check out a cave on his property. He went on about liability and that we couldn't go in it. Then he said, "you can go back there and look at the entrance if you want to" He stayed inside and guess what we did.

[ April 11, 2006, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Teach her how to remove individual bees for mite inspections.

Oh yes, that's how I inspect MY bees for varroa mites, individually, one at a time







It's tedious, but accurate. The problem is it's like painting the Brooklyn Bridge, when you're done, it's time to start over. I've been trying to convert Dave W, Mite Counting King, to the method but he won't have anything to do with it.

>There is an edit function for previous posts.

Oh boy, I love beating a dead horse!

So I guess I won't, everyone knows how I feel. I will say that I don't think claiming ignorance and/or stupidity has ever been a particularly good defense against anything. Never worked for me anyways.

>What does a wink mean?

Complicity. Or in other words, "Guilty as charged"


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## Craig W. (Feb 26, 2006)

Give her the AHB.

Craig


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I didn't wink. Go a head, prove it!


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

You sure you didn't wink? I coulda sworn you winked..


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## Kishwaukee Goldminer (Dec 6, 2005)

Hi, guys! Does any of you know the location or source of RELIABLE data on anaphylactic reactions to bee stings? 

Anaphylactic reactions are real and potentially deadly, but they get all the headlines and, thus, are all that people think of. Ignorant reporters write allergic reactions up in lurid terms. But they're probably rare -- thus the question above.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Does any of you know the location or source of 
> RELIABLE data on anaphylactic reactions to bee 
> stings?

Gotcha covered on mortality, but no idea on the
cases that are non-fatal, as most are. They just
are not "reported" as a cohesive data set.

http://bee-quick.com/reprints/stingdeath.pdf

Here's an idea - sell the woman an observation
hive, and rig up a little trap device to capture
one bee exiting or entering in an "airlock" so
that it can be removed from the exit/entrance.
Sell her small "nucs" headed up by aging queens
that you planned on killing anyway. 

Now she's a beekeeper! Now she carries all
the risk, as anyone who decides to keep bees
is clearly assuming a certain amount of risk.

Heck, I'd GIVE her the stuff and the bees.
Why extract money from someone who is suffering?
You don't need the money, you need the PR for
your honey sales.


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

Hive and Honey Bee has good info on honey bee allergies.

I met a beekeeper in West Milton PA, said she saw an allergist for her bee sting allergy. Got a series of treatments, now she has to sting herself once a month to keep immunity up. Sounds different than the all of a sudden becoming hypersensitive, more likely that being stung regularly keeps the immune system better able to handle stings. This has been my experience.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

Mr. Fergusson, lawyers are the instruments of injustice as much as doctors are the instruments of death. 

Lawyers are also the instruments of justice, doctors those of life.

I'm as guilty as they next guy about writing about hippie chicks, oriental shops, etc, but can we just talk about bees here?


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

by the way, I agree with you and don't like my fellow lawyers, but we need them.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Oh Fordguy, I don't blame lawyers for this litigious mess we're in. I blame whatever it is that causes people to feel they're no longer responsible for their own actions. I blame a prevailing attitude that the rest of the world owes us a living. I blame lack of accountabilitiy and self-serving ambitions. I blame Society.

Lawyers don't sue people, people sue people. I said it before, I'll say it again. A society gets the kind of crime it deserves.

George-


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## RAlex (Aug 18, 2001)

Sounds to me like the root of the problems are the lawyers ? They chase ambulances until they get hurt and then sue the ambulance comany. Then become judges to decide cases for the other lawyers who are sueing the doctors.Eventually they become politicians if they are lucky they become VP`s and then can shoot lawyers . Wonder if Dick is being sued ? hmmmmmmmm ....Rick


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

I gotta say some of you folks are a riot. Over on another thread some of ye naysayers on this thread were pounding your chest about not wearing bee armor and dissing those that do. Where's the little rolling laughing icon when you need it?


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Wonder if Dick is being sued ? 

No, I'm not being sued. 
......oh, you meant the bird hunter, I'll bet.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

My late father was an attorney for decades, as was his father before him, as was his brother. My brother is as well.

All are honorable men. As with most everything we generalize and love to slap labels on thing we either do not understand or disagree with.

Of course there are lawyers of poor character, as there are in any profession or trade. Including...... Beekeeping.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

I don't blame the lawyers. They've proliferated in this country to fill the need for their own services. Lawyers just generate more work for other lawyers. One lawyer in a small town will starve. Two lawyers in that same small town will do OK. Three lawyers in that same small town will thrive. The root of the problem isn't lawyers, it's us.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I gotta say some of you folks are a riot. Over on another thread some of ye naysayers on this thread were pounding your chest about not wearing bee armor and dissing those that do.

But I'm much more afraid of lawyers than bees...


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