# Hive Construction - Why nails instead of screws?



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Slower!
Currently I am using a coil nailer to drive 6d galvanized nails or I could use it to drive ring shank nails.
Ernie


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## oldenglish (Oct 22, 2008)

Nails are conveniant if you are assembling any qty, they are also cheaper, and if you have a nail gun much faster to assemble. You can use screws if you wish and I have seen them used, but not very often


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

nails, screws, or staples. I have seen all three used.


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## Buffalolick (Jan 26, 2010)

I glue and nail mine, once painted, no problems with warping or nail pop, but several folks here have said they like screws..ease of taking apart and replacing a board I believe. I think most folks use nails cause it's faster.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Hand driven nailing is a lot slower.
Ernie


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

Once glued in the dove tail joint then nailed it aint coming apart. You can use Screws but I can drive nails faster then most people can turn a screw with a drill. 15 plus years as carpenter doing alot of framing. with out a nail gun. but use what you want its all good screws 6d box nails.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Go down to Neus in Menomonee Falls and order some Maze double dipped galvanized 7d box nails. They are the best, made in Peru, Ill.


Roland


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Problem with screws is they tend to split the wood.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Saw one of Maine's large commercial operation's booth at the Common Ground Fair last fall. All their hive bodies were screwed together. Made me give the idea another thought.

Wayne


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## denny (Aug 2, 2006)

I pre-drill the holes and use screws,... makes it easier to take apart and alter at later date if necessary. I make alot of my own boxes using a rabeted joint rather than box joint. I may go to all 8 frame boxes someday, and the screws would make that transition a little easier.


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## HAB (May 17, 2008)

We are just a small operation, 20 hives and hoping to add 10 more to re-sell with Bees, but we found we curse a lot less putting them together with galvanized decking screws and TitebondII than nails. No splitting problems so far. We do pre-drill.


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## Rodd (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for all the great thoughts. I guess I'll go with screws. Unlike some of you, I'm not a very fast nailer, I can drive a screw straighter than I can nail, and ... so far at least ... I've never hit my thumb with my drill driver!


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Here in Tucson, Arizona I started out building my supers with various waterproof glues and galvanized nails. In other areas of this country, that seemed to work just fine. But I finally gave up on that fastening system, I then tried galvanized ring-shank nails, but despite the glue, even the ring-shank nails soon walked out of the wood (lots of temperature change day vs night). I had some coated deck screws (3-1/2" long), left over from building a wheel-chair ramp for my wife. I used some to assemble supers. I first clamped them tightly together, making sure they were square, then pre-drilled 1-1/2" long pilot holes. Using a drill or power screwdriver I drove the screws in nice and tight.

This is the beginning of the fourth year since I began using coated deck screws to hold my supers together. Some of the screws in the oldest ones have loosened slightly. A quick twist with a power screw driver and the supers are again firm and tight. When I tried doing this same thing with nails that had walked out, it never succeeded, the nails would walk out again within a week or two. It costs much more than nails to use coated deck screws, but money is saved by not needing to use glue, and the increased versatility of using this method of fastening. I will continue using them until an even more practical fastening method presents itself.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Built my own supers. I use Titebond III and 1 1/4" deck screws. I use butt joints on the supers and believe these will hold up for a few years.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

I think I can answer the question - 'why use nails instead of screws'? Simply put - because 'that's the way it's always been done' or 'we've always done it this way'. Among the most dangerous or silliest 6 or 7 words one can speak on almost any subject.

There is nothing wrong with screws, splitting wood can be prevented by lubing screws w/ beeswax - all old-time carpenters know this trick of lubing nails or screws with beeswax. Pre-drilling, using self-drilling screws or thinner shank screws will also lessen the splitting problem. Mechanical fasteners, whether nails or screws are used to hold things together until a permanent glue sets up. The reason builders use adhesive and screws on subfloor or drywall is to hold the sheet goods in place until the adhesives take over holding power. 

For speed, I like 1/2" crown staples - they hold like crazy (cement-coated two legs of holding power), inexpensive, drive faster than my wife, etc.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

Swobee said:


> For speed, I like 1/2" crown staples.


thats what I use:thumbsup:


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## hfrysinger (Feb 15, 2008)

I only have a few hives, so I use screws at the top and bottom, nails in between. On the screws at the top that hold the thin piece of wood - at the rabbet - I use screw washers with the screws. I figure that might help support the wood if I push too hard trying to get a frame out.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Screws wouldn't necassarily be any better than nails since once you have gone through one board you would be screwing into end grain. I would think that you wouldn't really get much purchase in the end grain, you'd just be cutting the wood fibers.

Which ever you use, nails, staples or screws (expensive, imo) add some glue to the process. It'll be worth the effort.

Since properly used glue will hold better than nails, staples or screws, generally speaking in wood joinery, does anyone glue their boxes together and only glue? Probably not, I'd guess.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

My grandfather was a firm believer: If 5 nails will do the jop, use 15 screws.

Overkill was his middle name.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Since properly used glue will hold better than nails, staples or screws, generally speaking in wood joinery, does anyone glue their boxes together and only glue? Probably not, I'd guess.


I agree, the glue is the critical component. I only use fasteners to force the joint together until the glue dries. Roofing staplers shoot with enough force that joints are often times forced together where a clamp would have otherwise been needed. If enough Titebond III or urethane glue is applied, it will squeeze out from the joints and dry (urethane expands beyond the joint quite well). A couple coats of good oil base will then provide for a good water barrier. Unfortunately a water barrier is not the same as a water vapor barrier. Warm humid air can get past some finishes that are quite good at displacing liquid water. For many parts of the country good glue and paint is enough. In hot humid climates, I'm not sure how one would keep the wood from swelling/shrinking (dunking in wax?).
Everyone seems to have a different opinion on joints, glues and paints. For my money, though, I prefer box joints, urethane glue, oil based paints and a pneumatic roofing stapler for assembly. The box joint has the most long grain gluing surfaces; the urethane is not as strong as Titebond III, but it expands beyond the joint and fills small gaps; and the oil base paint penetrates the wood while water based paints have a tendency to form a skin that peels off at some point. Some people have posted that water based paints do well over an oil based primer. 
I have a few hundred boxes and all the ones that were assembled as described above are in near new condition after five years. The ones with rabbit joints turned into trapezoids, the water based paints have all peeled, and Titebond II also yielded trapezoids. Although Titebond III is a pleasure to work with, I have found the urethane glues better at excluding water from joints due to its expansion/foaming. When I don't have time to wait for urethane to dry I use a judicious amount of Titebond III to insure that it squeezes out beyond the joint inside and out. Any gaps in the joint will get water in them and cause the wood to move. Joint failure is unlikely if water is kept out of the joints. The fasteners aren't needed until the glue fails. Once the glue has failed, then a discussion of nails versus screws versus staples takes on a lot more meaning.
The trapezoids mentioned earlier are repaired with 2 1/2" roofing staples and the fasteners are then the only thing holding the joints together. When this happens, I use a lot of staples in each corner and the boxes seem to hold up pretty well if the staples are driven at opposing angles. When fasteners are shot straight in, the expansion of the wood will pull the fastener right back out. If fasteners are driven in at opposing angles, the joint holds firm.

Now that was a long winded reply.


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## Cordovan Italian Bee (Oct 27, 2009)

Screws split wood easier.We build our own and use a small finish nail gun and glue.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Well here is one who builds hives with no metal fasteners at all. I have used blind dovetails and Miter Lock with Titebond II and III for years with good results. I have some old finger joint hives that were given to me and are now slowly desintegrating and will have to be replaced. All of our boxes are painted with house Latex primer and top coats. Nails or screws into the end grain have not impressed me much, but then thats just me and I do it only as a hobby. Take care and have fun


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## GB (Mar 5, 2005)

I wanted to keep things neat and read somewhere of replacing the screws with glued dowels. It was suggested that the new treatments for varroa would corrode the screws/nails. I tried it on two hives and a nuke and it does look like some care has been taken with the dowels cut off flush.


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## Galaxy (Jun 10, 2007)

I buy box-jointed boxes that are pre-drilled for nails, Then I glue the joints with plenty Titebond III and insert galvanized, box ring nails in all the pre-drilled holes. Finally, I drive them in with a palm nailer.

A palm nailer is a very versatile tool. It will drive anything from a 8-inch landscape timber spike to a small finishing nail. And, it will do it in tight spots that you could never reach with a nail gun. You can drive a nail into very dense wood like a knife thru butter with one hand and very little effort.


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