# A New Type of Hive: We need your input



## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Did he say BIGGER, stronger, and healthier? Here it comes.


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

From my point of view; your main obstacle will be this. If your hive will not be compatible with the 10 frame Langstroth then your going to have a slow start. Now If I had no equipment already, then maybe; but my extractor, hives, feeders, excluders, nucs, SBBs, etc are all Langstroth frame size and style. I am already bought into this system. The evidence would have to be pretty darn convincing to get me to "change horses mid-stream".

That being said, Langstroth hives were once "new" and they showed the world a better way, so I say....Carry on!

RKR


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Dahm said:


> I'm a student at Boston College that is part of a project aimed to get beekeepers to adopt a new type of beehive.


Can I make a suggestion? I think most people will be quite leery to do your survey without you giving us more information about how it's going to be used. How about a web page that gives support to the project? The claims you are making will bring lots of red flags, so I would suggest you offer a lot more background information before jumping right into a survey.

Who's involved with this project?
What course work has already been done?
What data do you have that supports your claim that CCD and beehive design or directly linked?
etc.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Dahm, 

I think its great you and your colleagues, whoever is involved in this project at the college, are interested in the bees. Perhaps you're just now in the information gathering and research stage of your project. 

But your basic premise has already been disproven. Bigger bees aren't the answer to the problems confronting the bees today. That comment alone reveals that you folks aren't current with the latest research. I'm thinking of the work Ed and Dee Lusby have done out west regarding cell size, which indicates a smaller bee is "stronger, healthier," and thus overall, more productive. 

I've skimmed thru your survey without answering anything, and it seems to be more geared to marketing equipment, than researching causality regarding colony collapse, honeybee health, and productivity. 

In addition to which, at this point there is no clear "smoking gun" as the cause of ccd. There are simply too many flaws revealed in your premise in your posting here. I suggest you and your colleagues return to "the drawing board," research the Lusby's work, and the work of other key beekeepers such as, but not limited to: Michael Bush and Walt Wright, who post here and have web sites. 

Other than what you've posted here, I don't know the nature of your project, but wish you well with it.
Regards,
Steven


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Dahm said:


> The beehive is intended to fight colony collapse disorder by being more like a bee's natural environment, which creates a bigger, stonger, healthier bee.


Hmmm...I was under the impression that when left to their own natural devices, honeybees begin to revert to _smaller_ cells which is what they build when not given today's typical larger cell commercial foundation. Smaller cells produce smaller bees. You are saying a bee's 'natural environment' creates _larger_ bees? That doesn't make sense to me. Can you exlain?


Regarding surveys:
I never give out information about myself just because someone wants it.


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## Dahm (Nov 13, 2009)

Omie: I certainly understand your leeriness in filling out surveys - to that end the survey itself is anonymous, and the individual survey data (except for the open form responses) will be destroyed after it is aggregated. Obviously, its still your choice to fill it out - I certainly appreciate the information on bees reverting to smaller cells.

StevenG and Omie: As for my obvious lack of knowledge, I'm not the bee expert involved, so my apologies on the misuse of "bigger" - call me a dope - I always just assumed bigger meant healthier, so when our expert said, "healthier" I simply assumed "bigger". Definitely a stupid assumption.

Related to solving CCD: Our bee expert strongly believes it can help with Colony Collapse Disorder in that it will be better for the bees than the traditional hives out there - It certainly isn't aimed to solve it - clearly that would be impossible at this moment since CCD isn't well understood.

As for the project: There is a team of us at Boston College working on it - as I mentioned I'm not the bee expert involved - my expertise is in reaching people - in this case, beekeepers who might be looking for a hive that helps make for healthier bees. Designing a survey that is meant to capture this information will certainly look like a marketing survey because it is indeed meant to capture how beekeepers (the market) find their equipment. Ultimately, the project is meant to provide a hive that we, the team, thinks can help with colony collapse disorder - but my end is in understanding how to get that hive out to beekeepers.

So each member of our team has taken on different elements of the project - A couple members are working on cultivating relationships with other academics to test the hive and provide supporting data. One other is looking at other alternative hives as solutions. Our team's bee expert is out in western Massachusetts and has been raising bees for the better part of the last 3 decades. He just wants to do something that's "better for the bees" and as such has been tinkering with hives for most of those 3 decades. He's come up with one that he thinks is superior to the Langstroth - like some other alternative hives, it allows the bees to build their own foundations, which allows them to make cells of the size they choose (hence "more like their natural environment", which I know I understand as not necessarily meaning "bigger").

As StevenG identified, we are in the very early phases of this project so our data relies mostly on historical data from bees that have been raised in the hives for a few years now, as well as gut instinct. Like I said, we're developing relationships with academics to test the hive, but until that hard data becomes available, we're moving forward with the other parts of the project where we can.

I appreciate all that you've responded with on this forum so far, and hope my response above have help clarify the purposes of the survey.

Thanks,
Daanish


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Daanish,

Thank you for the clarifications, that is a great help.

As you are discovering, beekeepers are notoriously conservative. However, there are many who experiement, and post their work here and in the journals. Many of us analyze those backyard or commercial experiments, and decide whether or not to implement those ideas in our own apiaries.

Several, Michael Bush among them, extol the virtues of foundationless beekeeping. Adopting such a technique involves no new equipment at all, simply modifying existing equipment.

As mentioned in another posting above, whatever shape or form this new hive takes, it will have to be usuable in currently existing extracting and processing equipment. 

Now, having said all this, I'll go take your survey.

Good luck to you all,
Steven


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Dahm said:


> He's come up with one that he thinks is superior to the Langstroth - like some other alternative hives, it allows the bees to build their own foundations, which allows them to make cells of the size they choose (hence "more like their natural environment", which I know I understand as not necessarily meaning "bigger").


All this sounds like top bar hives to me.
So, the question is not how your hives are different from Langstroth hives, but rather how are they any different from the many varieties of top bar hives already in widespread use today? I'm sure we'd all be genuinely interested in knowing more about that.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

I think you need to clarify what you mean by "hive" in the survey. It would appear that in your use of the word it includes bees. Very few beeks purchase woodenware with bees.
Thx


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Also if this is a design you are hoping to get into use, the best way to do that would be to show it does "something" better than what we use now. Then just post the design here. There are a whole lot of us that build our own.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not to discourage any attempts to make things better, but what is wrong w/ what we already use? What is it about Langstroth style equipment that you think has led to CCD? Do you have some reason to believe that CCD has something to do w/ beekeeping equipment?

Most "modern" beekeeping equipment, Langstroth type hives, the smoker and hive tool, removable and reusable frames, etc., have been developed for the convenience of beekeepers. And the more recent beekeeping innovations, such as pallets, have made beekeeping easier for beekeepers, so they can save their backs and operate more colonies while employing fewer helpers. If you can make things any more efficient than they already are, we beekeepers will figure out how to keep the bees alive w/ that innovation.

Thanks for your help. Have you any beekeeping experience?


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_I think you need to clarify what you mean by "hive" in the survey. It would appear that in your use of the word it includes bees. Very few beeks purchase woodenware with bees._

I second that motion. Gee, how often do I buy a hive? I have only bought a couple hives, and those were when I got started in beekeeping. Since then, I have bought packages of bees, and randomly purchased as needed frames, bottom boards, inner covers, outer covers, boxes, feeders, etc. I get a little here, and a little there, and create my own hives.

_The beehive is intended to fight colony collapse disorder by being more like a bee's natural environment, which creates a bigger, stonger, healthier bee._

More like a bees natural environment? Are we going back to bee gums? Hollow logs? Empty 55 gallon drums?

I think most (if not all) states require hives to have movable frames in order to inspect the hive for disease - and movable frame hives aren't common in the bees natural environment.

What you're saying sounds good, and maybe you have the next great thing for beekeeping, but it sounds like all fluff and little substance. (Personally, when the survey asked about importance of appearance, that convinced me this hype is smoke and mirrors. Bees don't care about appearance, and anyone who would suggest that appearance is somehow important to healthier, stronger beehives doesn't appear to have any real knowledge of bees.)


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

With all due DISrespect, it sure seems like you need to revue the cause of all the ailments you are trying to cure. Last time I checked, it was impossible to cure pathogens or insecticides with hive design. Why not poll those here for suggestions on improving existing hive designs, and the corresponding reason there should be a change in that direction? A trend might present itself after all the data is analyzed. Remember, anything that works great in one spot, may fail terribly in another location. Good luck. 

Roland


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## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

I don't thing the langsworth hive cotributes to CCD at all. Beeks used the design for a 100 years or so before CCD came around.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>which creates a bigger, stonger, healthier bee.

There is a contradiction in terms...

I have no current issues with CCD, Varroa or anything except the typical issues of preventing starvation etc. so I'm pretty happy with my beekeeping equipment... but then while mine isn't exactly traditional, it is standard equipment...


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## teebee (Dec 4, 2008)

You said 
"part of a project aimed to get beekeepers to adopt a new type of beehive."

Wouldn't it make much more sense to post a description of the hive to elicit opinions instead of posting a survey that seems to have very little to do with a new type of beehive?

What type of course is this project for? It sounds more like marketing than entomology. It's fine if is, but it you want people to spent their time helping you, you probably need to provide a little more information and make your motivation a little more clear.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

Sounds more like they are fishing for ideas from beekeepers. The Op has already stated that they are not the "bee expert' on the team. 

Seems strange that if there is a 'bee expert' involved, that person would most likely be the one to discuss it with other beekeepers as they already know the terminology and experience.

This seems more like a marketing or maybe engineering student posting instead. Which is fine, but again, I would think to elicit the most or "best" interaction from beekeepers would be another beekeeper.

On the other hand, I don't think there is any need to demonstrate that something is "wrong" with existing equipment in order to suggest wanting to develop something new. Humans have been seeking to improve on their inventions since the first invention. We do it because we can, not necessarily because there is a need for it.

I would be interested to see what such a 'new' type of hive would look like or do differently. But I can't honestly say I would hold my breath for it to become the next 'standard' overnight.

Big Bear


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

One thing that would make a huge amount of sense for beekeeping equipment standards, if we are changing them, would be to make them out of standard boards. Originally they were, but the size of standard boards have changed over the years and the size of hives has not. Why? Because changing a standard requires a HUGE advantage to overcome the huge DISADVANTAGE of not being standard.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

> One thing that would make a huge amount of sense for beekeeping equipment standards, if we are changing them, would be to make them out of standard boards


I can only say one thing to this...

AMEN.

Big Bear


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Took the survey but it's clear the person who designed the survey has no understanding of beekeeping termanology. Bees and hives seems to mean the same thing and different at the same time depending on how you read the questions. It was difficult to answer them correctly. Either you are asking questions about bees (aka: a colony, a nuc, a package) or the home of the bees (aka: woodware).

You should cancel this survey and change the questions so that they are clearly giving you the information you want and we understand what you are wanting.


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## m.zook (May 2, 2009)

If I was gonna build a new type of hive. I would gear it towards the hobby beek. They are the ones that usely don't mind trying different thangs. as far as changing the big time beekeepers. who has there whole life invested in standard equipment it would not be worth the cost of change. Making stronger, healthier bee's by changing the hive size or shape.not sure if it can be done.

Good luck!!


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## Dahm (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks again, everyone, for your input whether on the survey or in this thread. As has been suggested, I'm going to get some unfiltered beehive box details from the expert, so that you all know more about what we have in mind. I understand what the beehive box is in my mind, but my use of terminology is incorrect, so I don't want to cause confusion by attempting to describe it myself.

Sqkcrk:
I didn't meant to imply that Langstroth led to/caused CCD.

Countryboy and m.zook
I'm currently working to get more information from the expert on the benefits of the beehive box and some specs that isn't in incorrect terminology - this should address your questions on details of the beehive box and how it is differentiated.

Also, the survey asks about appearance because we want the beehive box to entice more people to be beekeepers - to some of those people that aren't already involved, appearance may be important, which is why the question related to it is in the survey.

Bigbearomaha
Our beekeeping expert isn't doing this himself because he doesn't have a telephone, which precludes internet use. As a result he works through us which leads to a lot of information getting lost in translation. Hence why I'm getting some more unfiltered details about the beehive box.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Hi there - I'm happy to help with your research (just took the survey) but the survey in many ways makes little sense. In the terms of the survey I have never bought a hive. I buy wooden ware from one place, bees from another. Put them together and I have what you call a hive. I rarely hear of anyone buying complete hives. Around here it is only when someone is "selling out" to get out of the hobby, etc.


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## mtbe (May 28, 2009)

As others have suggested, it sounds more like input for marketing for clients:

[email protected]/pub/daanish-ahmad/6/129/863


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## moonlightbeekeeper (Jul 4, 2007)

Dahm said:


> Thanks again, everyone, for your input whether on the survey or in this thread. As has been suggested, I'm going to get some unfiltered beehive box details from the expert, so that you all know more about what we have in mind. I understand what the beehive box is in my mind, but my use of terminology is incorrect, so I don't want to cause confusion by attempting to describe it myself.
> 
> 
> Also, the survey asks about appearance because we want the beehive box to entice more people to be beekeepers - to some of those people that aren't already involved, appearance may be important, which is why the question related to it is in the survey.
> ...



it almost sounds like the (expert) has come up with what works for him and he wants to see if anybody would be interested in purchasing it so he went to the school to have them market it.what are unfiltered details? i agree that something easier to use for us is not always easier on the bees when i have nearly 500 "beehive boxes" with all same size frames and same sized "boxes" it will be extremely hard to invest in a different set-up.
Dahm i would suggest that you familiarize your self with the beekeeping industry before you come out and try to get us to help you. and remember what expert means {ex (has been ) spert (drip under pressure)} 
if your expert is an expert why does he not have a phone or the internet?
there are a lot of things that do not make any sense here. why does your expert go to a college to get people to research marketing on the premiss of another new tool to FIX the bees that proper care and management will take care of? if you simply want more beekeepers there are better ways than making a "beehive box" more attractive!
sorry for the rant but i smell something and dont know what it is



trying not to step in it

thanks


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Heck I don't have a telephone in my house and I have internet...who other then Ray D) uses dial-up anymore??


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## manku007 (Nov 27, 2009)

I have completed your survery, hope that helps .


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

I like moonlightbeekeeper smell something.

Your survey and posts do not reveal enough about your goals or provide sufficient contact information.

If you have a new hive, where is it? If you are protecting intellectual info, please note a hive is a glorified box that dates back to ancent greece and will be difficult to patent.

If you want to market a new method, you will need a strong following from many recognized experienced individuals. A good way to start is by introducing your expert.

I agree with others, your questions reflect a lack of understanding. Since much of the disconnect in the survey is easily corrected through tapping Google, I percieve your expert needs to put in more effort.

While your intentions are sincere, this world has too many snake oil salesmen, internet viruses, ponzi schemes and rigged elections to share without caution. These gaps creates suspician that this thread is not being used for community gain.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

if the hive body isnt cost effective, light weight, and inter exchangable with the frames available, 
your wasting your time.

I couldnt invest hundreds of thousands into equipment that hold no value,
if you know what I mean


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## Dahm (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks again to everyone for providing input, critique, and comments that have made the understanding of the hive and the benefits beeks consider to be important in relation to that hive.

Throrope - at the time I posted the survey I wasn't aware of IP (intellectual property) issues, and now I've become aware. This is the reason I haven't posted information specific to the hive. I am truly sorry for indicating that I would in my last post, because I can't come through on that now. The hive is really, really different from what else is out there.

I've admitted my lack of understanding on the specifics of the beekeeping industry - its through the process of learning from you guys and analyzing the results of the survey that I can become more proficient at speaking the proper language of beekeeping. Your feedback on this forum alone has been extremely useful. Future surveys will most certainly take the feedback provided here into consideration.

To moonlightbeekeeper - Our beekeeper just wants a better environment for bees, thinks he's developed one, and wants to know how to get it out there. We've teamed up because we're better equipped to figure that out, while he's best equipped to keep testing this hive. I did my best to familiarize myself with the beekeeping industry - obviously it wasn't enough. In regard to the expert not having a telephone or internet. He simply doesn't. Of course, Alpha's point is well-taken, since, until recently, I didn't have a land phone line, but, of course, I had internet. Regardless, contact with the expert is difficult at times.

Also, "unfiltered details" was intended to say, "straight from the expert" rather than "garbled up by my lack of knowledge."

To mtbe, the work listed on my LinkedInn profile is related to my current position at BC as a gradute assistant, which is referred to for the purposes of the specific class to which that applies as a "Second Year Consultant". In that specific course we connect students in my program with businesses in the area to tackle various challenges. That course is totally independent and unrelated to the effort here.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Dahm,

It would help if you first reviewed the literature to see what has been tried in the past. For example, there are innumerable horizontal hives from the Kenya top bar to various condo like designs. These hives violate a basic bee principle that bees prefer to move UP in winter.

There are also innumerable variations of vertical hives from one that looks like an octagonal column with 4 different length frames inside to spheres to cones, etc. These have all been tried in the past and for various reasons fail to meet the needs of both the Bees and the Beekeepers.

The Langstroth hive has two significant deficiencies. (1)It is not stable on its base because it is intended to be added to vertically with a relatively small rectangular base. Many of us have tried various versions of square hives with acceptable results. (2) A single deep brood chamber is not large enough for a prolific queen. This results in having to use 2 brood chambers with resulting inefficiencies. If anyone wants to argue this, I can post pics of wall to wall brood on 18 frames from a single queen in 1994.

I use a variation of the standard frames that is 31 mm (1.25 inches) wide. This compares to the 1 and 3/8 width Langstroth frames. I've used these frames for about 32 years now and have got them down to an art. They have significant advantages for spring buildup, but be warned that they contribute significantly to swarming tendency.

Wish you the best with your efforts, but please tell your beekeeper friend that there is very little chance of converting the beekeeping community to any significant variation away from the Langstroth standard.

Darrel Jones


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

> For example, there are innumerable horizontal hives from the Kenya top bar to various condo like designs. These hives violate a basic bee principle that bees prefer to move UP in winter.


I figured one of these would show sooner or later. sheesh.

Big Bear


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## charmd2 (May 25, 2008)

My opinion is that your survey did NOT offer an all of the above option. 

I subscribe to more than one magazine. I buy my equipment from more than one place. I search online, in person, and in stores.. 

Basically.. None of it was relavant to me. I attempted to fill out every available other box.


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## alexlloyd (Jun 7, 2009)

I too found it difficult for the same reasons. After reading the thread, it appears to be confirmed that this is a marketing ploy which in itself is not all bad. As stated by others, those of us that are new, and have one or two hives are the best targets and I am interested but here is what I need.

The Hive (box) has to stay cool at 35-40 degrees C, it has to stay warm at -35 to -40 degrees C, Yes that is a full 80 degree swing. I need to be able to field it in the spring and shed it in the fall. I used full Langstroth supers this year, (because I can handle them, I'm in good shape, I am not aging).... HAH.... I cannot lift a 100 lb super and carry it very far to the truck. The frames need to fit in my extractor.... fortunately mine has basket for the frames and will do full, 3/4, and half frames. The box needs to look like I didn't salvage it from the garbage, other than that the bees don't care. I need to be able to inspect the bees occassionally in the spring and fall while being able to let them look after themselves in heat of the honeyflow.

If you can do this, call me; if you can't, don't bother because there is equipment that will.


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## Maine_Beekeeper (Mar 19, 2006)

Happy to answer your questions but yes, it sounds like when you are saying 'purchase a hive' you mean the woodenware/hive box only. 

When you say "purchase a hive" to a beekeeper, that implies there are bees in the box (or whatever). 

Beekeeping equipment without bees is referred to as equipment. Put bees in, and it is a hive. 

Best wishes to you and feel free to contact if you would like to discuss further. 
-Erin


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Here are some terms that we need to agree on, if we can.

A hive. A hive is made up of the boxes that bees are kept in.
A colony. A colony of bees lives in a hive.
A hive of bees is the hive and a colony.

But Maine is correct. If someone is selling a hive, I am apt to assume that it has bees in it. Unless otherwise specified.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

> The hive is really, really different from what else is out there.


ummm, in order for this to be a credible claim, you would have to have a good understanding of what is (and has been) "out there"....and i don't get the impression that you do.

since you are connected to bc, i assume that there are students involved in some part of this project? regardless...school or business, there is a lesson to be learned here.

you never, ever send a "marketing guy" who is unfamiliar with the subject to talk to people that do know about the subject. with all due respect, you don't even know the right words to ask the right questions with....while assuring us that this is some kind of revolution in beekeeping....it comes off like a used car salesman in a dirty plaid jacket.

you've tried to use classic textbook marketing ("buy this product, it cures what is wrong in your life"...ccd in this case) to try to market a product you do not understand to potential customers who know more than you about the subject than you do to cure a problem that you don't identify other than by the symptoms (ie, if you know, or claim to know the cause of "ccd", you can claim to aleviate that cause...in this case, the cause of ccd remains undefined, yet you claim to be able to "fight ccd" with the new design).

in any case, the best way to market an improved product is to demonstrate its effectiveness.

i'd be happy to look at the design, or see it in the field (we are in central mass), and even try it if it makes sense to me (or if i'm convinced that it is working despite it not making sense)...but a marketing survey is useless here. 

deknow


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

> but my end is in understanding how to get that hive out to beekeepers


well, this part is easy. there are about 1/2 dozen internet forums like this one, a few email lists, 2 print journals in the u.s. (and at least one in most countries of any size).

if the product has real merit, the print journals will likely do an article (a few hundred dollars for an ad wouldn't hurt), and if you can get one respected beekeeper from each list to talk about it, you have reached 10,000+ beekeepers for almost free, almost instantly. you will have plenty of help if your product performs as claimed.

deknow


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Fusion_power said:


> Dahm,
> 
> It would help if you first reviewed the literature to see what has been tried in the past. For example, there are innumerable horizontal hives from the Kenya top bar to various condo like designs. These hives violate a basic bee principle that bees prefer to move UP in winter.


The original poster would do well to understand that one beekeeper's "basic bee principle" is only considered mere opinion by others.

If this new design is of a horizontal nature, it needs to be evaluated on its own merits rather than popular opinion.

Wayne


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Has anyone thought that this could be a bogus request? MIT students are famous for doing stuff like this.


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## sjbees (Jun 9, 2007)

I've been offline for a few days, and the first few lines of this thread reminded me of the Nigerian scams. I'm amazed it took until the fifth page for a blunt statement from USCBeeMan that this looks, smells, and feels bogus. 

A brilliant beekeeper who has no phone and is unable to communicate? Get outta here, even the poorest of countries have people with cell phones stuck to their ears.

A solution for "healthier bees and happier colonies and thus fight colony collapse disorder"? C'mon, we don't even know what CCD is much less how to cure it. And can someone enlighten me on when bees became sentient and learned the meaning of happiness? 

How does silence help "get beekeepers to adopt a new type of beehive"? You gotta show us something before we can form an opinion. 

My hat is off to all of the beeks on this list who despite being skeptical were nice enough to look at the survey and attempt to fill it in. 

I close with the hope that this does not offend anyone other than the original poster.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

sjbees said:


> I close with the hope that this does not offend anyone other than the original poster.


Skepticism is one thing, but I don't see any evidence this is some kind of hoax, just ill-prepared to approach beekeepers, perhaps. 

I hope the original poster is not so offended that he finds all of us to be so deliberately offensive.

Wayne


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## sjbees (Jun 9, 2007)

> I don't see any evidence this is some kind of hoax

What more evidence do you need than:

- There is an expert beekeeper somewhere who cannot communicate

- There is a hive design but it can't be shown to anyone

- Nobody knows what CCD is but this design can cure it


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## moonlightbeekeeper (Jul 4, 2007)

sjbees said:


> I've been offline for a few days, and the first few lines of this thread reminded me of the Nigerian scams.


dont know what the "nigerian scams" were but i did smell something back aways tried not to step in it but am not afraid to offend most people guess that is why i get along so well with my bees they dont take much from anyone either


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

*A New Type of Hive: You don't need my input : )*

I'd paint my "New Type of Hive" with Nansulate® Bee Protect


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

Osama Bin Laden has been hiding in caves for the last ten years and he has a cell phone. I agree, how come this genious beek can't find a way to communicate with the outside world?


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

moonlightbeekeeper said:


> practice random acts of kindness; for emily


Giving the benefit of the doubt to the original poster is my random act.

Happy Holidays.

Wayne


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## Adamd (Apr 18, 2009)

Dahm

Your survey doesn't really relate to the subject of your thread and looks like a marketing survey to me. There are loads of hive types - Warre, TBH, WBC, British Standard, Smith, Commercial, MD, Langstroth, An old Tree (!), Leaf hives in Germany. I'm sceptical that a new hive in iteself will make any difference. So what's new with your idea? Please let us know!

Adam


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## jajtiii (Jul 11, 2008)

I answered your survey (which I understood to have a marketing aim from your original words) and browsed this topic.

I rarely post here, but have been a member for a year or so and can tell you that you will get nowhere when trying to answer the critiques of your project.

I would just let it be and allow folks to answer the poll as they come across it.

good luck.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

USCBeeMan said:


> Has anyone thought that this could be a bogus request? MIT students are famous for doing stuff like this.


I agree and with deknow - this is almost certainly marketing spam. The poster was sent packing from another forum for the same trick.


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## clgs (Aug 6, 2008)

Dahm - Most respected university projects and research teams provide a significant amount of information about the objectives of the research or educational project with full disclosure of the the identities of the team, responsible professor and any sponsoring/funding sources for the projects. 

Even basic undergraduate courses require full informed consent for any surveying of human subjects for projects, even anonymous or blind studies. Full introductions of the course, project purpose and use of the information should be provided at the beginning of the survey. Let me correct that - all high school projects would require full disclosure and informed consent be given when people are requested to fill out surveys. 

Forget about the lack of technical knowledge on the product you're developing, most market researchers lack this knowledge - your procedures for basic surveying and market research are not consistent with the standards for any academic institution.

This forum is always open to people wanting input on new ideas in beekeeping. If your "Expert" wanted feedback on his/her design or how to get word out about a new idea, you do not have to pretend to be a college student - just put the ideas out there. You'll get feedback.

BC would not be pleased to know you're using their name.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

why did this rate sticky status?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Since he didn't register with a .edu email address, my assumption would have to be that he is not affiliated with any university.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

stangardener said:


> why did this rate sticky status?


Good question. That's why I waited as long as I did before questioning whether this was a hoax. It didn't make sense from day 1.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

i don't think it is a hoax, or done with bad intentions. i think the poster was honest, and simply doesn't know what he is talking about.

deknow


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## sjbees (Jun 9, 2007)

> why did this rate sticky status?

> Since he didn't register with a .edu email address,
> my assumption would have to be that he is not
> affiliated with any university.

> i don't think it is a hoax, or done with bad
> intentions. i think the poster was honest, and
> simply doesn't know what he is talking about.

Whether we individually believe or not in this survey, can we at least remove it from being a Sticky?

Let it wither in the archives rather than remain an irritant at the top of the primary Forum page.

We should not need to take a survey to decide whether this deserves Sticky status, but if we do then I'll start a thread to gauge the sentiment.


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