# New to TBH? Start with a Tanzanian



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I have now kept bees in Top Bar Hives for 5 years, and have used Langstroth equipment for longer than that. I plan to continue using both into the future, as I have learned that each offers a totally separate and unique approach to keeping bees, and feel that neither is "better" and on does not replace the other.

I have also found that the lack of tbh resources in terms of nuc sellers and mentors presents a larger learning curve for new beekeepers who enter beekeeping using the tbh. Also, if one tries either the tbh or lang, and then decides to switch - it is difficult to make the transition.

Based on my experience, I would advise any tbh new-comer to begin with a straight-sided Tanzanian-style top bar hive that is build to accept standard, langstroth frames. From there, you can easily get standard nucs to begin, and you won't have to deal with any odd animosity or eye-rolling from other beekeepers. 

You can easily interface with langstroth gear if you decide to switch. You can also more easily make a transition to Kenyan, angled side tbh's as well - as the comb from the Tanzanian can easily be trimmed or moved over when only partially built to fit inside the Kenyan.

If you're a langstroth beekeeper, I encourage you to create a Tanzanian tbh and try it out for yourself. There's no substitute for experience, and you may enjoy it. It does give you a different take on keeping bees. Using the Tanzanian would also allow established langstroth beekeepers to be able to offer tbh nucs as well, with very little extra effort or gear. One or two 4 foot Tanzanian boxes would create the resources to accommodate a number of customers, and likely bring a premium price as well.

Just some thoughts,

Adam


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## chiefman (May 18, 2003)

I use 19 " bars for all my TBH so I can put them in Langs if required. I think Tanzanian style hive may have too much weight on the comb which may cause comb collapse in hot weather, especially if you are dealing with deep size frames. It should be something you need to consider when building the hives. That is the primary reason why you would have the sloped sides in a Kenyan style hive.


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## ColbyH (Jun 2, 2014)

This will be first winter with bees, with one out of 3 being foundationless after i was told i should't , i am making both long lang and tbh, with people saying not in maine. It is great to find someone like you that is / has done it.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

chiefman said:


> ... I think Tanzanian style hive may have too much weight on the comb which may cause comb collapse in hot weather, especially if you are dealing with deep size frames....That is the primary reason why you would have the sloped sides in a Kenyan style hive.


A lot of people are using foundationless deeps in Langstroths and the collapse rate doesn't seem to be any higher than in Kenyan tbh's. The sloped sids in the Kenyan tbh were designed to keep the bees from attaching them - hoping the slope would make them see the sides as "floor" and thus keep attachment to a minimum. It doesn't actually make that much difference in that regard.

Also, a Tanzanian hive built to hold deep lang frames won't have very tall combs (9 inches +/-) as compared to the height of typical Kenyan TBH designs, which are often 10 or 11 inches deep. And I've seen even deeper.

Don't let fear of a comb collapse stop you. Moving top bars to a Lang box is not as often needed as putting a Lang frame in a tbh. So making a Kenyan TBH 19 inches wide doesn't actually provide a ton of benefit, as you'd still have to hack apart a frame to put in a nuc.

Adam


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## chiefman (May 18, 2003)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> A lot of people are using foundationless deeps in Langstroths and the collapse rate doesn't seem to be any higher than in Kenyan tbh's. The sloped sids in the Kenyan tbh were designed to keep the bees from attaching them - hoping the slope would make them see the sides as "floor" and thus keep attachment to a minimum. It doesn't actually make that much difference in that regard.
> 
> Also, a Tanzanian hive built to hold deep lang frames won't have very tall combs (9 inches +/-) as compared to the height of typical Kenyan TBH designs, which are often 10 or 11 inches deep. And I've seen even deeper.
> 
> ...


Hi Adam

Do you get 40 degrees C or 100 F plus days in Nova Scotia ? That is a day when your combs could collapse like dominoes.

A frame obviously helps the comb with side attachments so it should be easier to manipulate. If you live in a potentially hot environment then you should really consider the size of the comb the bees will build. Otherwise I agree that the Tanzanian is the best one to start with for interchangeability of combs between hives


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## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

I have to say that going TTBH was what I decided upon . I am new to beekeeping , I just ordered my 1st nuke last week , so this will be my 1st attempt at bee keeping . I was planning on a KTBH , but in the end decided on TTBH . the ability to take lang equipment was the key factor . One of the things I ran into was the lack of availability of packaged bees . there are import restrictions here in NS , which means I can't order them out of the US . I can order queens from california and hawai but the rest of the US is a no go , I assume this is due to AHB or some disease issue but i have not been able to find out exactly which issue . either way it means that my access to packaged bees is severely limited . I found a guy in ontario which sells them but there were $50 to $70 + shipping more than an over wintered local queen in a nuke from either of my local suppliers . 
the TTBH solved my problem , and my local bee supplier agreed that it would be the best compromise if I was determined to go the TBH rout . 

I am not too worried about comb collapse , I am in the annapolis valley which can get hot by NS standards , we can get into the low 30s C through july and Aug but that is about as hot as it gets .


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