# Can Pollen Traps Reduce Phoretic Mite Load



## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Now THAT'S an interesting question. I would opine that you would stress the colony more keeping the pollen traps trapping (by reducing pollen stores) that you would from the reduced mite loads. Eventually every colony gets mites; once they're in and breeding, you'd be right where every other colony is except they'd be protein-deficient.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Pollen traps do not take 100% of the pollen.
The hive sends more bees out to forage for pollen.
Just my .02.
What I would like to know is how many mites can make it back to the hive when the drones are excluded from re-entering the hive.

Ernie


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

It is an interesting thought. I reckon someone could sift through their trapped pollen and do a count. Any volunteers?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

beemandan said:


> It is an interesting thought. I reckon someone could sift through their trapped pollen and do a count. Any volunteers?


Done that. I look at the pollen for Varroa mites. Find very few. I would guess that varroa hold on pretty tightly, and get inbetween the segments of the bee. Hard to scrape them off.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> Done that.


I should've known.


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

And there ya go - anyone who says experience is not the best teacher (which I did NOT say), is most likely inexperienced (which I am). My signature by-line came from a calander showing Running with the bulls in Pamplona Spain .

Actually thought about the pollen (lack of) issue, but those drones just skipped my mind. How do those that collect pollen overcome these issues?Pollen as a substitute feed, but drone freedom?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> What I would like to know is how many mites can make it back to the hive when the drones are excluded from re-entering the hive.
> 
> Ernie


Mites don't ride on workers?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It's a mystery to me who they ride on, or if they do.

Once, when doing an Apiary Inspection, I had forgotten to take an ether roll sample from the surface of a brood comb. Since I had already closed the hive and there were lots of bees bearded on the front, I took a sample of those bearded bees. No mites found. Which was surprising since the other sample showed mites present. I don't recall the count. So i went back into the colony and sampled from the brood nest and there they were.

So, what does that tell ya? I'm not sure. How exactly do varroa get around? How did they get around the state from the time they were first noticed in 1986(?) or '87?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> So, what does that tell ya? I'm not sure. How exactly do varroa get around? How did they get around the state from the time they were first noticed in 1986(?) or '87?


Tells me that most phoretic mites are on bees in the broodnest. Figures. That's where the brood is. Also tells me that it takes only 1 female varroa to infest the next yard down the road...easily accomplished by robbing or drone drift.


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

As an expert in only driving nails, operating power tools and figuring crown molding angles, it seems to me that (reproduction aside) the phoretic mite load waxes and wanes relative to the bees comming & going from the hive.

No offense given, but I just think they hop on whoever and wherever shall they go - if they're having a party at drone cell #33 and they happen to pass by, they stop off to imbibe. If the bee (regardless of sex, lack there-of, intent or pre-determined task) suddenly bolts the hive and heads to wiggle-waggle flower #27 , they hold on the best they can & maybe layover for the next flight to another bee yard.

Does 1 pest less a day make a difference? Guess that depends on how many times you have to swing the hammer.


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I use the sundance pollen trap, the bees dont squeeze between anything so the mites wouldn't be wiped off, on the other hand, the drones don't have to squeeze through anything either. The sundance is supposed to remove about 70% of pollen.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

hoodswoods said:


> No offense given, but I just think they hop on whoever and wherever shall they go


None taken, but I think it's less random than that. If you do an alcohol wash from different locations in the hive, the bees in the central broodnest will have much higher mite counts than the bees at the preiphery.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> .easily accomplished by robbing or drone drift.




:scratch:
Drone drift

Ernie


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Drone drift...when drones follow a virgin home to her yard and stay. They are accepted into any colony.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> Drone drift...when drones follow a virgin home to her yard and stay. They are accepted into any colony.


This is worth reading for some additional information about the _Varroa_ mite.
It is stated that drones drifting from one apiarie to another is a method of spreading the mite.
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/PDFs/Varroa_Mites_PMP1.pdf
Ernie


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I think that's why varroa spread so fast here. Very little movement of bees. Very few hobbyists at the time. Yet, mites travelled from one side of the county to the other by the summer after the first sighting.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

hoodswoods said:


> they hold on the best they can & maybe layover for the next flight to another bee yard.
> 
> Does 1 pest less a day make a difference?


Interesting theory, but no one has ever seen a mite on a flower. and it seems like quite a risk to take to get to another hive. What is the incentive to jump off on to a flower that may not get a visit from a bee from another hive?

Perhaps not, but one pest more sure can make a difference. The difference between pre1984 beekeeping and what we have to do now.


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

As a 1st year (last year) miserable failure as a beekeeper (altho I now have 20 deep frames of drawn comb and 50+ lbs of capped honey to start again this year), my concerns evolved into pest management, specifically SHB ( which I now understand how to control) and varroa (I'll tackle AFB, nosema & hive moths this year).

The original question posed by my thread was if pollen traps can/have been used to control phoretic mites (and I should have included 'on those bees entering and leaving the hive')? MP's experience seemed to indicate not. As far as shutting down all access of borne pollen into the hive, I have read that in many cases, even on traps kept on 'permanently', enough pollen made it thru to sustain the colony - but isn't feeding back pollen a viable solution, al beit in a very small operation?

The issue of drones and queen access totally skipped my mind, but you can expect such lapses based on my experience, but further investigation indicates that many of these devices accomodate this issue to one degree or another.

On the theorectical 'mite-free' hive then, mites enter that hive in basically 3 ways 1. by introducing a mite-infested package or nuc, 2. by drifting drones or 3. robbers or our own bees returning from a heist of their own.

By 
Quote:
_Originally Posted by hoodswoods 
they hold on the best they can & maybe layover for the next flight to another bee yard. _, I meant co-mingling with a happenstance encounter with an infected bee - not that they literally waited at the flower bus stop for their next intended victum.

At that point, it becomes a internal issue and requires any of the numerous methods to control - which is what I was trying to avoid (or at least control to some degree) by posing the original question.

Mark, you made a statement some years ago in the following thread:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194546

03-21-2006, 07:50 PM
sqkcrk
Yes, drobbins. It sure has been studied. There's nothing you can sing that can't be sung. there's nothing you can think that ain't been thunk.

At my age, and with nothing else to do until my new bees arrive, everyone will have to excuse my active imagination.:scratch:

Thanks to all for your expert advice

Michael Hood (no - wrong one, but ironic certainly in name only)


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