# Almond Research Conference



## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

$$$$$$$

No just kidding, we need

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

or is it,

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!

Well, all that aside, did I mention that this BUSINESS needs MONEY to operate and in order to provide a good product that helps the almond growers make $$$$$$$ they need a good product. That is, year in and year out, not just one season.

Do not be afraid to pay more for good bees.


Good luck with the presentation,

Larry


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

maybe try and help them understand the risk and hard work that goes into having good bees. it is not for the average joe. we are a dying bread. if they want to keep producing almonds they need to keep us alive and well. so basically we need $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

The almond growers should plant a cover crop between the rows so that the bees have *some* forage to continue building up for their pollination!
( It's better conversation to discuss our cost of operation than just demanding more $$$. You will have to justify your demands.)
And please remember that you are representing an industry.
Ernie


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

This last fall, I had a tank on my truck feeding hives just released in squash.
The grower pulled up and asked me what I was doing.
After explaining, I pointed at the tank and said, "To fill the tank with sucrose, thats $1250.00. Add 3 bottles of fumigillian, and now we're up to $1630.00. Two gallons of HBH and now this tank of feed that will fill 350 hives costs $1850.00.
Then I recapped the year.
I fed twice in rainy CA almonds. Once in rainy OR cherries, and twice in rainy OR meadowfoam. It rained in Oregon until mid June.
That resulted in HUGE feed costs.
Then there is pollen sub, mite treatments, queens, fuel etc.....

The main misperception about beekeeping is that we just, "place" boxes and send invoices.
Let them know that we have overhead and operational expenses just like they do.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

And if you don't want to spend all that money on feed, you spend a lot of dollars on fuel ,trucking and labor to find flows to fill them up. Thats so they don't look terrible at almond bloom time. And you may not hit the flows (rain or drought) so you end up buying the feed anyways.
And non -treatment is a non-starter, so there is always that.
So I have to agree with the above-it takes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
When I look back at my past years record of expenses and what I did to try to keep good hives for almonds it amazes me, and makes me wonder if I should just stay home. Except I know that you guys are going so I gotta go too, for all the fun.......


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## busy bee apiary (Aug 7, 2010)

Well matt you are in a great situation so to speak. I like your approach on getting information from other beekeepers like yourself on the matter. First of I like ernies approach on not just boring them and talking more money, but giving them insight as to what the expenses (inflation), and risks are for a beekeeper to be successful. They are businessmen as well and should have no problem doing the math. You also need to let them no that no two beekeepers situation is the same" expenses/revenue" . In my situation I depend on honey and pollination to make a living the first of the two is not as dependable. One of the reasons is mother nature and the other is a declining source of honey producing plants over the years. Because of a transition in farming to none nectar producing farm crops. Which is starting to decrease the revenue and at the same time increase expenses to keep health strong bees. Also talk on frame count a higher frame count generally speaking takes more expenses and is harder on the queens/hive. Instead of them instinctively slowing in the winter we are trying to "trick" keep them going year round, which is adding stress to the hive. Well this is my insight on the situation not saying its the same for other keepeers. Lastly matt remember that u are speaking on behalf of the beekeeping industry. Well I wish u good luck.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Hey Matt...some info to help you out.

Sending hives to amonds requires a different approach then just working honey. There are four things (at least) that are required for Almonds. Good equipment, good queen, heavy feed and heathy bees.

Almond guys should understand that bees sent to almonds requires so much work on the beekeepers part and I don't mean just in shipping. 

1 - Shipping bees requires that your equipment be in fairly good shape. During winter most commerical beeks I know are assembling new equipment, painting, scraping, building and getting things ready for the spring. Come spring, any hives, pallets, frames and anything else that is broken, rotted, falling apart or anything that has outlived it's usefulness is replaced. I can't afford to send a pallet of hives to Calf. and take a chance that the rotted pallet will fall apart as the hives are being loaded. Bees that are just used for honey can stay in outyards and not be moved so I don't have to be so on top of keeping the equipment in top shape.

2 - Lots of bees means a good queen. For almonds I replace my queens every two years. Some guys I know replace every year. That is a fixed cost, not to mention the time it takes to find the old queens, intro the new, etc. A good fresh queen means a good brood pattern and lots of bees for pollination. If I was leaving the bees in the outyards for just honey production I would allow them to supercede the queen as they discover she is failing. I can't take this risk on almonds. 

3 - Feed. Bees going to almonds have to be heavy. For two reasons. One is it is warmer in Calf. so the bees are more active and thus consume more feed. Second is it is warmer so they build up sooner and have more bees so they need more feed for the brood and bigger population. As such, I have to leave on more honey and this means less of a honey crop for me...and that's if there is a good honey corp, otherwise like others have pointed out we have to feed them to get them heavy enough for Calf. So to send bees to Almonds I am getting less of a honey crop and/or feeding which has a direct and not to in expensive cost. 

4 - Healthy Bees. Most Almonds guys are smart enough now to want a good amount of bees and they grade on the frames. If you want lots of bees your bees going into winter before almonds had better be healthy. This means for most that treatments are needed. Myself I treat in feed with Thymol and this works very well for me. Healthy bees and no mites. However, I know of many beeks who run different types of treatments and there is a cost associated with that. Healthy Bees are not the result of just letting them hang out. With everything from nosema to mites to CCD it is a full time job that requires knowledge, time and lots of work on the part of the beekeeper, a years worth of work unseen as they the hives sit under the almond blossums. 

5 - Lastly and probably most evident is the moving of the bees. If I were to leave my bees in out yards I could get by with just a flatbed truck. But moving the hives to holding yards, loading them on trucks, bringing them back, etc. takes a considerable amount of time and resources. Special equipment, fuel, man power, etc. It is no easy task to move hives thousands of miles and usually the hardest part is just moving them from the outyards to your holding yard and this is before they begin the trip to Calf. And lets not forget finding good truckers who won't cook your bees along the route.

In short, the bees that the almond growers see in Feb. are the result of a years worth of attention, investment, and work. It is more than just a box of bees. If it were that easy, everyone would be beekeepers.

Hope that helps.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Also, after you get done telling them how hard we are trying to deliver a quality product and why we need the big bucks, you might thank them for saving a lot of bee businesses that were dying as a result of the flood of cheap imported
'honey'.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

IMHO many almond growers need to be educated on what the word "average" means. IME, most contracts require an average of 7 - 8 frames of bees. As an example, a beekeeper provides a 4 way pallet of bees, 3 hives of which have 12 frames of bees each, and the 4th one has 5 frames of bees, easily meeting the 8 frame "average" (10.25 frame average). Again, IME, the almond grower refuses to pay for the 4th hive, as it is "no good". Perhaps some growers confuse the term "average" with "minimum"? I know some growers have switched to paying on a per frame of bees basis, but that seems to me may involve even more "counting"/controversy.

Just my $.02. Any thoughts?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

And what is worse-in the Sac valley(don't know about further south) only a percentage of hives are graded, supposedly at random.Then they base the whole group on that. Which means if they happen to look at too many of those 5 framers there will be a problem. I think if they are going to grade, then ALL hives should be looked at. But they will tell you there are so many to grade and so little time....


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## Matt Beekman (Dec 15, 2007)

I wanted to thank everyone for their input. It really helped. For what is worth, I think Eric Mussen, John Miller, Chris Heinz and myself did a pretty decent job explaining what exactly goes in to providing quality hives for almond pollination. Hopefully, the growers present will be more understanding when you quote them your pollination rates this year. Time will tell.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Matt, THANK YOU, for taking the time, from all of us that pollinate almonds.


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