# When to Re-Queen a Package



## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Typically it's a new queen that is given with your package. That new queen if she's queen right; meaning that she's laying eggs in a pattern that is acceptable, healthy you don't need to replace her. Typically queens last 2 to 5 yrs. Re-queening can be every 6 months by commercial bee keepers from what I have heard and minimally every year. Non commercial bee keepers typically re queen after wintering. I have read that those in the South some re-queen with bees from the North due to the gentleness and no DNA of the African bees. This is after the colony gets to a proper size.


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## Shai (Oct 9, 2015)

Thanks, frustrateddrone. My concern is that all the packages we get here are out of the deep south, and I'm wondering if I would have a better chance of success with a locally bred queen.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

Why don't you just buy local to start with????


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

We enjoy a very high rate of queen acceptance.
One aspect of our procedure is to always place the queen cage between frames of mixed brood with attending nurse bees.
The only exceptions of course are packages.
So to give my answer to your question, not addressing anything about the local queen bit, I would allow the package queen to lay out brood and when the bees are emerging, replace the queen if you choose.
Remove and pinch the queen after about one month.
Remove the cork covering the candy plug.
DO NOT poke a hole in the candy plug.
Place the cage between frames of mixed, emerging brood.
Fill the feeder, close up the hive and STAY OUT for at least 10 days.
The placement between mixed brood with emerging nurse bees greatly increases acceptance.
Good luck!


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## MartinW (Feb 28, 2015)

"when is the best time to do that requeening?"

I replaced the queens on two California packages six-weeks after I received them with one VSH sensitive queen and one super-mutt/Russian hybrid. Both colonies are going into the winter fine. You can sell the queens from your original packages through your local bee club. Good luck.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

There are things that will have more affect on a colony and cause it to fail to overwinter than a southern raised queen. If you practice good beekeeping it won't matter where your queen is from. Use this winter to study up on bees, get your package in the spring and don't worry about requeening unless there are indications that the queen is failing. Varroa is the number one cause of colony death, control varroa and you will have colonies that overwinter well.


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## Shai (Oct 9, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your input


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## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

IMHO when you get an early spring package, the queens are poorly mated. I got 4 packages this year and picked them up in April. By the end of October, 3 of the 4 packages petered out. I re-queened the remaining package around the summer solstice (June 21) and it is going strong. I would suggest re-queening with local stock around June 21 since that is peak queen mating season. To those who think "mites" to the 3 failed packages, I monitor and treat. There were definitely queen issues on 2 of the packages since they had a couple frames with emergency queen cups. The last package suffered from a robbing spree that I wasn't quick enough to stop.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

ericweller said:


> IMHO when you get an early spring package, the queens are poorly mated. I got 4 packages this year and picked them up in April. By the end of October, 3 of the 4 packages petered out. I re-queened the remaining package around the summer solstice (June 21) and it is going strong. I would suggest re-queening with local stock around June 21 since that is peak queen mating season. To those who think "mites" to the 3 failed packages, I monitor and treat. There were definitely queen issues on 2 of the packages since they had a couple frames with emergency queen cups. The last package suffered from a robbing spree that I wasn't quick enough to stop.


Honestly I must agree with Eric here. Packages made up in early spring suffer from poorly mated queens. I've had many first year hives from packages and the only ones that ever made it were the ones that have been requeened at some point through the season. I as well treat so mites were not an issue. The issue was too early mating caused by trying to get my bees too early. 

So here's my two cents for the OP. Get your packages, then hive them with the package queen. Wait at least 21 days so you have new nurse bees emerging and then requeenen those hives. The new nurse bees will take up to the new queen as soon as they emerge making the transition easier on her. If you want to ensure you have a queen no matter what, put old queen and a frame of bees young larva in a nuc box and wait till new queen is up and going before getting rid of her.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

If you're convinced you're not going to get a well mated queen from an early pack I sure wouldn't introduce her to my hive tool on the assumption she will fail. Why not wait until the queen moves up into the second story, place her back down under a divider board for a couple days until you get cells up top, then replace the divider with a double screen, give them a top entrance and run it as a (probable) two queen unit. At the end of the summer pull the screens and que sera sera.


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## Shai (Oct 9, 2015)

Thanks all, lots of good ideas. I really appreciate your shared experience and suggestions. Makes a lot of sense.


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

no NEED to requeen... if she's doing well then let her do her thing....But the sooner you can introduce some local genes into your hives the better...The problem is when all your neighbors have queens all from packages/Georgia and you don't end up with anything different.


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## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

phyber said:


> no NEED to requeen... if she's doing well then let her do her thing....But the sooner you can introduce some local genes into your hives the better...The problem is when all your neighbors have queens all from packages/Georgia and you don't end up with anything different.


I used this approach last year where I "let the queen do her thing" and found that the all of the queens petered out in the fall (October) when it is almost impossible for new queen to be mated and return back to the hive. 
This year I was testing re-queening around the summer solstice and it appears to be a better plan with packages.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I have had the best luck catching swarms. The queens are egg laying machines AND local. Once I get a queen I like... nucs and making queens are next.
From experience, packaged bees are not for me.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Shai said:


> Thanks, frustrateddrone. My concern is that all the packages we get here are out of the deep south, and I'm wondering if I would have a better chance of success with a locally bred queen.


Make your decision after you give the imported queen a chance. If you feel that you need to requeen. Do it after the summer solstice. This is when the old queens are slowing down. A new queen will want to build brood for you to feed through the winter and have an exploding colony in spring 2017


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## Honey Hive Farms (Nov 1, 2012)

I am not understanding why you would want to re queen a package? Packages from a good package producer has great genetics, lets their queens lay for 15 days plus.
There should not be a problem with a queen in a package...

As for swarms, not for us, we like great genetics and know what we have and how old our queens are, etc. (seen lots of swarms with problems, mites, etc) Good starts are good endings, bad starts are bad endings...

Nucs are fine, but again we feel that who knows where the foundation has been and after three years probably several mites within the foundation.

Just some thoughts, best of luck.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I am not understanding why you would want to re queen a package?

Try a search on:
SARE grant requeening


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> >I am not understanding why you would want to re queen a package?
> 
> Try a search on:
> SARE grant requeening


It's an interesting study. I'm not seeing any specific data on factors were present in each group such as when the matings occurred and the stock used. Referring to northern queens and southern queens as though they were as different as night and day just seems too simplistic to me. A fairer comparison might be to compare matings done at the same time from a hive development standpoint in regards to hive drone development.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Learned something (again) that I had forgotten about and maybe it belongs here.

The problem with packages is that about 2 weeks in they will try to succeed the queen. It has nothing to do with local vs. distant or deep south bees and queens. It's just how it works. Will try and explain.

About two weeks into installing a package many of the bees that came in the package are dead or getting old. There is a shortage of nurse bees because none have emerged. The queen is laying fine but there is poor balance in the colony at that time. Experienced established beekeepers know this and will add a frame of larva with some nurses at the two week mark after installing a package to help get the hive into a proper balance. 

Hope this helps.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

aunt betty said:


> Learned something (again) that I had forgotten about and maybe it belongs here.
> 
> The problem with packages is that about 2 weeks in they will try to succeed the queen. It has nothing to do with local vs. distant or deep south bees and queens. It's just how it works. Will try and explain.
> 
> ...


Good point though it's unclear to what degree that might have influenced the study.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Michael Palmer talks a bit about the mechanics behind it here: 





It all makes perfect sense. I'd consider timing it somewhere around when they typical supercede which is (I think) farther along than two weeks. Probably more like 3-5 weeks when the population is just starting to get decent waves of replacements. I supposed you could even wait for supercedure to begin and then cut out cells and give them your queen.


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## bean tree homestead (Nov 18, 2013)

aunt betty said:


> Learned something (again) that I had forgotten about and maybe it belongs here.
> 
> The problem with packages is that about 2 weeks in they will try to succeed the queen. It has nothing to do with local vs. distant or deep south bees and queens. It's just how it works. Will try and explain.
> 
> ...


This is what I do and it seems to work.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

jim lyon said:


> It's an interesting study. I'm not seeing any specific data on factors were present in each group such as when the matings occurred and the stock used. Referring to northern queens and southern queens as though they were as different as night and day just seems too simplistic to me. A fairer comparison might be to compare matings done at the same time from a hive development standpoint in regards to hive drone development.


There were 2 separate studies with lots of great information. The results speak for themselves. Commercially produced Southern Queens and Packaged bees performed significantly worse than re queened packages or nucleus colonies with Queens raised by a small producer in the North.

http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewProj&pn=FNE10-694
and
http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewProj&pn=FNE12-756

The source of the Northern Queens becomes pretty clear when you read all the materials. The quick and dirty overview in in a power point presentation.
http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/assocfiles/997408SARE Final 2010-2012 Presentation.pdf


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

jim lyon said:


> Good point though it's unclear to what degree that might have influenced the study.


Swarmed or superceded queens may have been disqualified from the study- I am not positive, but I believe the methods section of the reports should lay that out.


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