# HopGuard for Varroa



## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Mine didn't do that, and I would not worry to much about it. I wrote an article about Hopguard, after researching it a little bit and using it of course. 
http://www.klamathbeekeepers.org/Beekeeping_Articles/Bee_Maladies/progressive_hopguard_treatment_on_honey_bees.html


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Well if your bees all poured out of the hives I guess the nurse bees had to abandon the brood or die, so likely all that brood will die, along with the mites in the brood cells. Unfortunately the queen can't fly so is stuck behind in the hive exposed to the heavy chemicals. But the mites riding on all the bees who fled the hive will live on just fine, and if the bees come back they will bring their mites back with them. Am I wrong in thinking this method is basically going to reduce mites by killing off that cycle of bee brood? I mean, most of the mites are doing damage and breeding inside the capped brood cells. If the capped brood dies, the mites in the cells die.

It seems to me a less toxic way of doing the same thing would be to just remove the queen for 3 weeks to a small nuc, and let the mite population in the main hive crash for lack of open brood cells to lay in. You can let the main hive raise a new queen from eggs, and at the end of the 3 weeks you can either let them keep their new queen or cull her and reunite them with their old queen again. At least that way you are not killing or losing bees or poisoning your queen. Just a thought.


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## cklspencer (Jun 21, 2010)

"It seems to me a less toxic way of doing the same thing would be to just remove the queen for 3 weeks to a small nuc, and let the mite population in the main hive crash for lack of open brood cells to lay in. You can let the main hive raise a new queen from eggs, and at the end of the 3 weeks you can either let them keep their new queen or cull her and reunite them with their old queen again. At least that way you are not killing or losing bees or poisoning your queen. Just a thought. "

I have yet to see mite numbers crash because a queen has been removed for 3 weeks. The mites come out when the brood hatches and stay attached to the bees until they find new brood to occupy. Some will fall off the bees but the numbers don't just drop off in most cases. Infact it is almost like they go into super mode after something like this and end up growing their numbers much faster.
HopGuard is far less toxic than many other products on the market (its food grade). Its also very effective under the right conditions.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

I used Hopguard for the first time this fall.I am well pleased with the results.None of my bees left the hive or bearded outside and mite drop is the lowest I have seen.I will be using it again in the spring.My one negative is the size package one must order.For a person with just a few hives,50 strips is a lot of Hopguard.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

As said before I have never seen bees leaving the hive with Hopguard. I've heard about this happening with Mite-Away Quick Strips (MAQS). I wonder why yours did that? Did you do something else? Hopguard is just not a strong odor producing products, nor does it irritate their breathing. I'm sure that not all bees left, and it they did that it wasn't for long. So far I can only say that the hives I treated all remained calm and happy.

You are in Florida, could it be that yours were thinking about swarming? Just a guess.


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

gone2seed said:


> ...mite drop is the lowest I have seen.


I don't understand. A low mite drop is a bad thing and emplies that you did not get a good kill of mites. Were there lower mite levels in the hives before treatment compaired to prior years?


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Walliebee,when I said the lowest mite drop I have seen I meant AFTER the treatment and in
subsequent counts.I count regularly and assumed that most hobby beekeepers do.If you really did not understand then I am sorry and glad I could clarify that for you.If you need any further 
help just ask.


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

We used Hopguard twice on several thousand hives, never had any reaction from the bees other than it seemed they kinda liked the stuff. There are no "heavy chemicals" in Hopguard. sheesh how's the water up there omie?


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Thermwood said:


> We used Hopguard twice on several thousand hives, never had any reaction from the bees other than it seemed they kinda liked the stuff. There are no "heavy chemicals" in Hopguard. sheesh how's the water up there omie?


'How's the water'? What is that supposed to mean?


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

gone2seed said:


> Walliebee,when I said the lowest mite drop I have seen I meant AFTER the treatment and in
> subsequent counts.


Thanks for the clarification.


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## BiG T (Oct 25, 2010)

Thanks for the replys . Well the odor to me I couldnt stand maybe im sensitive but it stinks to me. Any who Ill check on all them today and let you all know whats the deal. Just so you guys know this was on 30 hives. Thats why I wasnt clear to why they all came out I could see maybe 1 hive or two but all.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

BigT, it sounds like something was really not right. Are you very sure you used the proper dose and followed all instructions carefully?


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## arcowandbeegirl (Oct 11, 2010)

I have used Hopguard several times, and have not seen any more bees coming out of the hives than usual. I am in Arkansas, but did treat once when temps were in the mid to high 90's. The other times I have used it, the weather has been 70-80 degrees. I havent been very pleased with the recent results, but it may just be an isolated incident. I have 5 hives, and am doing mite counts on sticky boards. While the smell was not real pleasant, I have certainly smelled worse.


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## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

Glad to see this thread. I wondered about it, I know the sales men hipe it up. I have looked around the web and nobody had any thing good to say about it. I was trying to deside between it and MAQS which are natural also, no one had anything bad to say about them. So I went with them and have been very happy. I only have two hives right now though.


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

i just finished a 3 week regimen of hopguard here in michigan. Not much active brood rearing at all - some capped brood when i first opened 'em. This is when the strips are supposed to be most effective. some of the sticky board counts dropped 90-95 % from pretreatment levels.

you do have to open the hives which is a problem but the weather cooperated. at least you dont have to really pull any frames though

overall i am very happy with this product.


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## rurbanski (Dec 27, 2011)

Big T

i did a hopguard treatment on two double deep hives (2 strips per box) on December 7. Temps were in the mid 50. Other than gaurd bees I had very few bees in the air (I did use smoke). 3 days latter I checked the screens and the amount of mites in the weaker nuc was a little scary, I really did not think I had a "problem". The product seems to work great I will be doing a spring treatment per the lable.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So overall do you all think Hopguard is worth the money it costs to treat your colonies as compared to other methods?


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

For me yes. The product is easy to use and well taken by my bees. Even a higher dose it has no negative effect. I use 8 frame equipment. The maker suggest 1 strip per 5 frames, which is can of hard to apply with 8 frame equipment. I use 1 strip per 4 frames, or two per deep box. I add new strips once every week for 3 weeks in a row. That way I do not miss the capped brood. It does not smell that bad either. You do not need a respirator to apply. A know down of mites during honey flow can be done, but you must take off the super. The good news the strips are dismantled by the bees within 5-7 days and you can put the super right back on after the strips are gone. The strips are most effective the first 3 days, and you do have the option of pulling the dry strips to get your super back on faster. The quick mite drop will make your bees happier. Just remember a one time treatment is not to efficient and the mites bounce back quickly. Applying it weekly is an off label use. The product is organic, and less toxic to us compared to some of the other options. The product concentration is twice the concentration to what is being used in dark beers. Just an interesting observation.


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

Since when can a queen not fly? I don't think they carry her when they swarm, or for her mating flights. Unless you get queens with clipped wings which wouldn't make sense if the queens couldn't fly anyways.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Katharina said:


> The product concentration is twice the concentration to what is being used in dark beers. Just an interesting observation.


If its based on Hops and its twice the concentration used in making dark beers then wouldnt I bee good to just use hop oils the beer industry uses to make it cheaper on me? I did a calculation and deteremined it would take over $1,000.00 to treat the meager amount of bees I have for 1 time. Well 1 time meaning full brood cycle treatment. That leaves the treatment to be around 2 - 3 bucks per hive. That is far cheaper than Apriguard but far more expensive than Amitraz. Now they claim it has the same effectiveness that Amitraz has for killing mites and yes the natural way of killing mites is better. Is it truly organic? Are they using Organic Hops?

I'm a little stuck on the double concentration of dark beers. For a 10 gallon batch of my favorite oatmeal stout I use 1.5 oz Galena which is at 13% Alpha Acids for a 1 hour boil time. Now I dont have to use gloves when handling the Hop Flowers but I see where HopGuard requires the use of gloves according to the youtube commercial. 

I do like the idea of being able to treat during the honey flow and may consider adding it to my mite treatment prior to shipping north for the honey run.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Omie said:


> Unfortunately the queen can't fly so is stuck behind in the hive exposed to the heavy chemicals.


 I think the hows the water statement was as in what have you been drinking ???? HopGuard is basically being sold as a non toxic way to knock back mites I would assume because of the advertising that you can use it with honey supers on....


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

BMAC said:


> If its based on Hops and its twice the concentration used in making dark beers then wouldnt I bee good to just use hop oils the beer industry uses to make it cheaper on me? I did a calculation and deteremined it would take over $1,000.00 to treat the meager amount of bees I have for 1 time. Well 1 time meaning full brood cycle treatment. That leaves the treatment to be around 2 - 3 bucks per hive. That is far cheaper than Apriguard but far more expensive than Amitraz. Now they claim it has the same effectiveness that Amitraz has for killing mites and yes the natural way of killing mites is better. Is it truly organic? Are they using Organic Hops?
> 
> I'm a little stuck on the double concentration of dark beers. For a 10 gallon batch of my favorite oatmeal stout I use 1.5 oz Galena which is at 13% Alpha Acids for a 1 hour boil time. Now I dont have to use gloves when handling the Hop Flowers but I see where HopGuard requires the use of gloves according to the youtube commercial.
> 
> I do like the idea of being able to treat during the honey flow and may consider adding it to my mite treatment prior to shipping north for the honey run.


You know I was looking at that too and wondered. Now I don't want to buy a gallon of that stuff for testing purpose along. At least that was what the one manufacturer required. I can't wait to see someone trying it and finding a cheap way for all of us. 
Katharina


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

A gallon may not be worth it for smaller beeks but might be right up the alley for larger beeks if that is indeed effective by mixing it with a transport liquid and soaking into towels or blotter paper. 

Maybe I will have to look into the hop oil purchase this spring. It would be an interesting experiment. I am sure I could kill a few colonies.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

One of our club members uses every last bit of hopguard. He just squeezes the remaining stuff onto the bars after the strips are gone. He said it works fine, because the bees will crawl over it distributing it. So this makes me think all you have to do is put it onto the bars and don't even worry about strips.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Never occurred to me to use up all the extra liquid laying in the tray - :doh: That's why I keep reading; always learn something new!


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

For sure strips are not needed. a couple things the strips do for us though is it keeps the potent stuff off from any open brood as I am sure it would kill it. The other thing is it allows us to rapidly identify any colonies that are already done or maybe forgotten to be done. However in the past we have effectively treated colonies without the use of any strips, just using the solution in a garden sprayer. Many folks that treat with OA using the dribble method dont use strips either. 

Personally I like them as a reminder that the colony has been treated.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

My bees didn't remove the strips either time I treated - at least very little of them. Next time I figured instead of trashing the strips I'll just toss em back in the liquid for a week or two. Couldn't hurt to reuse those too, I'm thinking.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Interesting. My bees have their strips removed and ditched 5-7 days after putting in. I have carnies and 8 frame boxes, if that matters or not.
A commercial beekeeper I know told me his hives dismantle them in 3-5 days. His are Italian mutts he raises himself and he uses 10 frame equipment. He started off with Italians years ago, and they are now mixed for sure. 
I have not noticed dead larva on direct contact with hopguard, nor have I noticed the removal of such. Normal business as usual I would say. The strips are nice to use, but I wonder if a tube would work just as good and you just put a strip over 2 bars on each brood box. The bees walk all over it and distribute it that way. 
One thing that kind of came to my attention was that the bees seem to want it. I mean I treat weekly over three weeks. They seem to run to it each time I add new strips. I don't think it is aggression towards the product, because they do stay calm. Ok, I'm not an insect so I cannot put myself into their shoes.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

THEY WEAR SHOES???!!!! :lpf:

Yeah, most everyone's bees seemed to remove their strips, from what I read. Couldn't say; neither hive removed much of them.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

From Honeybeesuite: 


> The new formulation is 16% beta acids painted on cardboard strips which will be used in the brood boxes. Two strips per brood box will be used up to three times per year. Since the product contains only “Generally Recognized as Safe” (GRAS) ingredients, the manufacturer believes the product can be used in the hives anytime—even during a honey flow.


16% beta acid is a heck of a lot more hop than is contained in even in an India Pale Ale (never mind a dark beer, which typically dont contain that much hops).

Anyway if this is true, it seems like it would be pretty easy (and a lot cheaper) to get some hop oil of known beta acid concentration and dilute it down to 16%.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Or you could just use formic acid which has a much better mite kill and is approved for mite treatment, people I heard talking about hop guard say thumbs down.....


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Or, buy a quart of Wood Bleach (Oxalic acid) at Ace Hardware for less than $10 dollars,build a vaporizer, and fume through the SBB. No need to disturb the brood nest.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Yeah that wood bleach is great fun til you get a good whiff of it! I have heart failure anyway and I think I will travel a different path after my encounter. For those more tolerant or careful, I think it is the way to go.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

so what beekeeping supply stores carry Hop Guard?


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## waholloway (Dec 29, 2011)

I believe Mann Lake carries it.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

besides manlake. I was wondering if there is a cheaper source. They want just over a buck over per colony treatment on singles.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

I think Brushy also carries, but from what I saw, at least last year, they were all pretty comparably priced.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

p.s. I ordered from Mann Lake with other items so shipping wouldn't cost (if $100 or over product total)


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yep. thanks. I will check brushybee


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