# "standard" bar length



## chemistbert (Mar 4, 2004)

I like 19". They fit in my langs if I need them to. Did you get my PM?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I like 19". They fit in my langs if I need them to.

That's what most of mine are also.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

chemistbert, I am not sure. It sounds dumb, but between real names, forum author names, email address names, and secondary sign-in names, I sometimes get crossed on the messages. I also recently recieved mail that was someone responding to someone else and it was apparent that the massage was not intended for me. 

What is your first name and I could probably pin it down? (Don?)


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## chemistbert (Mar 4, 2004)

Sorry, I forget about using an alias here. Matt McCarrell. I sent you a PM about some queens. You are the one selling queens correct? I would like some details and such.

And it's not dumb at all.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Thank you Matt. Info is on the way.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

19" long and 3/8" thick. any comb guides are added on here. 3/8" has been strong enough to hold up the honey comb but i don't want to cut into the integraty of 3/8".


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

I made mine 22" with 20" inside the hive length availabile for comb. I did that before I knew what I was doing. Someone posted 20" as the max length because of honey weight, lack of frame, etc. I have not had any problems with mine but I do believe I'm pushing the limit.
Good luck,
Aram


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## JD (Aug 18, 2006)

I made mine the lenght so that one sheet of plywood would make 5 hives with no waste. Plywood is for the cover or lid. I am in wet county and my top bar MUST have a full cover


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## Jon McFadden (Mar 26, 2005)

This sounds more like a poll. 
I used 19", too, and for the same reason others have given; same length as the langstroth. 
Jon


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

*Shorter bars (396 mm = 15 1/2")*

I just completed my first two tbhs (http://picasaweb.google.com/MrJensLarsen/TBHTopBarHiveComboOne) after reading up on what all you guys have said. Thanks for sharing, you saved me years of trail and error.

My conclusion is that I'll go for shorter bars than the langstroth 19". In Sweden and Norway there is a commonly used frame length of 396 mm. The norwegian frame is slightly deeper but around 280 mm (tbh is 330 mm). So, compability with my other gear is nice, but I also recon that the shorter bars suits me better for these reasons:

1. Manageble combs, 19"x10" combs must be hard to handle, more attachments due to heavy comb?
2. Comb drawn in ONE place, many pictures of 19" bars show the bees draw comb on two places and then draw them curbed.
3. Less gap between bars means less mess (propolis), shorter bars stay straight
4. Better communication in broodnest, shorter path to next comb, good for winter, good for queen
5. Higher comb gives smallers cells (states Dennis Murrell).

So, in short, I think 396 mm (approx 15 1/2") is great for the bees and great for me.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>In Sweden and Norway there is a commonly used frame length of 396 mm. 

Certainly, if I was there, that's what I'd use.


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## kawayanan (Aug 11, 2006)

JensLarsen said:


> I just completed my first two tbhs (http://picasaweb.google.com/MrJensLarsen/TBHTopBarHiveComboOne) after reading up on what all you guys have said. Thanks for sharing, you saved me years of trail and error.


Thanks for the pictures, they look nice.  So, it looks like you made it to take either Lang frames or top bars? What are you planning to start with?

Kawayanan


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

*Practical length?*

Most seem to favor the langstroth 19" for reasons of combability. I have the luck of being able to do the same but with a shorter bar. In a previous post I stated some other pros with a shorter bar.

What would the chosen length if you would start from scratch?

I'd go for something like 14" and 12" deep.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Our frames on UK National hives are 17", so that's what I use for TBs. It is a convenient length to hold and seems to work fine. My first TBH had 15" bars and vertical sides and they attached all the way down solidly both sides, so I guess they were a little short...


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

JensLarsen said:


> ,,,
> 5. Higher comb gives smallers cells (states Dennis Murrell).
> 
> ,,,


I just want to comment on your statement #5. Dennis did a study in which he measured cell size and found that the bigger the comb the more small cell there was.

I sent him lots of pictures of my 17 inch combs. I photographed every comb.

He found that my percentage of small cell was much less than those with longer top bars.

So if if I understand what you are saying the reverse is actually true, you will get more small cell if you make the top bar longer. 

That said, I agree with MB that you should go with the Lang lenghths in your country.


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

*Ideal length, form factor?*

I find Buckbees comment interesting; that 15" got attatched all the way but 17" didn't. Has anyone else had that experience?

When it comes to small cells and comb size I got the impression from reading Murrells study that it was the height of the comb that mattered. I guess the overall comb size also plays a role.

If I may suggest there is a word called form factor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_factor)
that might come handy. For computer stuff it is often the height-width ratio, my 14" length and 12" deep would be form factor 1,17. The current one is 15" 1/2 bar length (->15" comb width) and 12" high -> form factor: 1,25.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

...so 15" wide by 11" deep would be 1.36?


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