# Aistan strips



## Beeboy (Dec 29, 2002)

This is my first winter with my hive and using chemical strips. What my problem is;
I put the strips in the two hives as directed(4) total strips, in October 2002, and it got cold soon after. I was told not to try to remove them cause I will break up the cluster,they've been in there for three months now. Will this kill my bees? Its been below freezing for some time now and I'm afraid to disturb them.What should I do?


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

It won't harm the bees; the drawback of this is that longterm exposure to low levels of miticide encourages the development of resistant strains of mite. Put it down to experience, and if you're still going to use the stuff - there are alternatives - put it in a bit earlier next year.

------------------
Regards,

Robert Brenchley

[email protected]
Birmingham UK


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Hello -

We should first back up and address why the strips were put in so late. I don't know where you live, but any place that has cold winters will have a time frame that they will have to work within or the predicament you are in now will happen. Timing is very important when using any kind of chemical or drug treatment.

About all you can do now is to wait till you get a warm enough day where the cluster breakes so you can remove the strips (55 degrees or above). I would at least get the two strips out of the top super now as they should be accessible by only removing the top cover.

The strips won't hurt the bees, but it will produce resistant mites, which will hurt the bees!

Regards,
Barry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have had this problem before. Sometimes it's bad planning, sometimes it's just unpredicatable weather.

Some of the latest studies are suggesting that it's a change in the way Apistan is manufactured, not mite resistance, that causes it to not work like it used to.

Either way you do what you have to. It won't harm the bees. At least not in the short run.


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## The Honey House (May 10, 2000)

Michael,
"Some of the latest studies are suggesting that it's a change in the way Apistan is manufactured, not mite resistance, that causes it to not work like it used to."

Please, can you cite some of these studies.
Very interested. I lost just about every colony that I owned these past few weeks
and was wondering if it was from having
a Apistan resistanced mite or a bad batch
of Apistan. 
Also wondering, if it is "bad Apistan"
is there any recourse for those of us that lost our hives?

I asked serval other beekeepers in my area
and they are not reporting such drastic losses, or they're lying! 
TIA
Dave


[This message has been edited by The Honey House (edited December 29, 2002).]


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## Karl (Jun 18, 2002)

Dave: Curious for more info regarding your losses. Can you give us some background on the strength, age, amount of honey harvest last year, etc. of the lost hives. Also what has your winter been like there. Here in S.E. Wisconsin we are enjoying a really mild winter so far. Thanks, Karl


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## Alfred (Dec 29, 2002)

Hi, we have that problem with Apistan since 1998 in Germany and I asked the manufacturer last year what happen with the strips.
The answer was that the mites are getting resistant and I should tread the bees with other things. The manufacturer is not willing to produce other medications for mite treatment in the future because of the developing costs and the high registrations fees in most parts of the world.
Since last year Im using Oxalic Acid and it works. The winter is a good time to treat the colonies and there is no resistant possible. 
For information go to the following website. http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln 

Greetings from Germany
Heinrich


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'll look some more for the references later. But the article I read (and this is from memory so I'm not certain of some of the details) was that some people with hives that they had just treated with newly manufactured Apistan without very good drop counts that they were calling "Apistan resistant" were then treated with some old Apistan (I'm thinking it was from the late 1980's but I could be mistaken on the date) and had the normal expected mite drop and cleared up those same "resitant" colonies. 

Their conclusion is that they believe the manufacturing process was somehow changed the current product is not as effective as it used to be.

Since some hives still respond to the newly manufactured Apistan and some do not, it would make sense to say that there is some resitance though.

I will look some more to try to find the article.


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## The Honey House (May 10, 2000)

Michael, Thanks! I'll check back later to see any updates. Good Luck.

Karl,
9 out of 15 dead in my backyard
5 dead out of 9 about ten miles down the road
and then another yard where all 4 out of 4
dead. 
strength, all looked good enough for the winter. This is my eleventh year so I can kind of guess their strength based upon previous years.

age, some where from nucs in May and some where the parent colony. I think there might have been a swarm in the mix as well.
And of course, it wasn't a swarm from any of my colonies!  

amount of honey harvest last year, well I took honey off of just about every hive.
I left the top brood box quite full as I have found that this is about right for my area in Southern New Hampshire.

Also what has your winter been like there, 
It's been cold! Really cold! November was
very cold with a few nights of -2F and daily highs of around 15 or so. Quite uncommon for
that time of the year.


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## Karl (Jun 18, 2002)

Dave: Thanks for the info. I feel for you buddy. Its tough to lose hives like that. I have 7 hives here that I pushed together in a line late in fall and insulated on north , east, and west sides along with the top. Open to the south. I'm crossing my fingers for early spring. Good luck . Karl


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Here are a couple of articles on the subject of changes or inconsistencies in Apistan.

FLUVALINATE CONTENT OF APISTAN STRIPS http://www.nal.usda.gov/ttic/tektran/data/000009/31/0000093113.html 

http://apis.ifas.ufl.edu/apis98/pdf/apr_ap98.pdf


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## Alfred (Dec 29, 2002)

It is really bad to hear what happen with your bees. Im reading my bee magazine from this month and there is an article about Perizin from Bayer (Cumafos). Warning to use it, many beekeepers in the northern part of Germany lost up to 80% of the colonies. Mites are resistant to Cumafos too.
They recommend 2 treatments with oxalic acid seven day apart as soon as possible. Vaporizing oxalic crystals is the only way to save the rest of the bee colonies during the cold season. Colonies can be treated, as soon the temperature is approx 2 º 3 º above the freezing point.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Coumaphos has been in use in Germany for a lot longer than the USA.Resistance is just beginning to show up in those areas of the US where it has been in use the longest.So maybe another year or two,then look out.Forget Apistan,resistance is widespread.No alternative treatment will come close to these so keeping bees is going to get harder.Probably the acids will be the best bet,combined with bees that will at least put up some fight.


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## dharbert (Jun 13, 2002)

I think you are forgetting one of the best ways to control mites. FGMO...It works and without any problems of resistance. Check it out and see for yourself.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Unfortunately,most of the hives I tried FGMO on broke down with varroa in late summer.I suppose it may have some value in areas where the bees arent constantly being re-infested,but it certainly did not work here!Too bad,as fogging is very quick to do.Used the cords too,but the labor involved makes that part of it too labor intensive on a large scale.I still think that it may have some value if essential oils could be mixed in,but that is an experiment for the future.I might just add,that a friend who used Check-mite on his thousands of hives didnt see a mite all summer.I didnt use it,and have lots of dead hives to prove it.My best advice is dont be too quick to accept 'internet alternatives' as fact.Do your own experiments as your circumstances may be vastly different than that of the people offering (sincerely) their solutions.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

Hi dharbert
I can refer you to [Alpenlandische Bienenzeitung, Suedtiroler Imkerbote] which includes an article on the "Rodriguez Method". 
Test results from several bee-keeping institutes in German and Austria prove it is maybe a treatment but not effective. 
This is confirmed by and article in "Vida Apicola", a Spanish language bee-keeping magazine where the Varroa treatment is delivered by oil fog an by impregnated cords.

Here a part from the summary of the Rodriguez test, he made the test and not an independent institute. 
The test was performed with 10 colonies hived in Langstroth type hives equipped with 4mm hardware cloth bottom screens. Test results demonstrate that food grade mineral oil is an efficient, economic and non-contaminating acaricide, especially when integrated with other control methods.

Dr. Pedro Pablo RODRIGUEZ made a test with only 10 colonies March-June 2001 and that means nothing. He needs test results at least from several hundreds or a few thousand colonies before he can give any comments in the direction to a recommended treatment.

Here a answer from Dr. Liebig, Landesanstalt für Bienenkunde, Universität Hohenheim/Germany.

There are many possibilities to treat the bees without using chemicals like Cumafos, Apistan, Amitraz, Folbex or Gabon etc. 
The fogging method with food grade oil in not as effective like the natural acids, for example Formic Acid, Oxalic Acid, Lactic Acid, etc.
The oil fogging method has to bring a similar or close test result on 1500 hives or more before we can say, it is a treatment!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Alfred wrote:
Vaporizing oxalic crystals is the only way to save the rest of the bee colonies during the cold season.

FYI, oxalic is not approved for use in the U.S. It may work good, but like all chemicals, it too has a limited life of effectiveness on mites. We are already hearing of oxalic resistant mites from parts of Europe.

Axtmann wrote:
""Rodriguez Method". 
Test results from several bee-keeping institutes in German and Austria prove it is maybe a treatment but not effective. This is confirmed by and article in "Vida Apicola", a Spanish language bee-keeping magazine where the Varroa treatment is delivered by oil fog an by impregnated cords."

Give us the details of this test you mention. I don't believe one test proves anything. "Effective" is a subjective word. How is effective defined by this report? Was this study done exactly the same way the Rodriguez Method was done?

Axtmann wrote:
"Dr. Pedro Pablo RODRIGUEZ made a test with only 10 colonies March-June 2001 and that means nothing. He needs test results at least from several hundreds"

Read his article in ABJ, January 2003. I see 2 other people tested his method. One with 400 hives and one with 135 hives, both from Spain.

Axtmann wrote:
"Here a answer from Dr. Liebig
<snip>
food grade oil in not as effective like the natural acids"

If this statement is true, it's fine by me. If using FGMO allows one to forego using acids and the like, what a great result!

Regards,
Barry


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

Hi Barry, my first question is how long do you keep bees? 
In your letter you mixed lots of thinks up but thats ok, I will give you only an idea what the fact is. The Internet is a great thing and all you have to do, go and search und you will find answers for all your questions.
I know, the treatment with oxalic acid is not allowed in the US, but how about your oil fogging is this government approved?
There is no Oxalic Acid resistance possible; it works by destroying the mite's suction ability, stopping it from feeding from the bee. Effectively, the mite starves to death. Oxalic Acid is an organic acids and not an synthetic acaricid, it is an inexpensive alternative to synthetic acaricides for the control of parasitic mites in honey bees (Amrine et al. 1996, Imdorf & Bogdanov 1999, Imdorf et al. 1999). They are also less of a health risk compared to synthetic acaricides which may contaminate honey bee products
Oxalic Acid has the permission in Finland, Switzerland and Austria. We are using Oxalic Acid since approx 1985 and the German government accepts it because there are no delays in the honey, beeswax and propolis. 
Oxalic Acid is used in Russia at least since 1982 and western beekeepers thinking the Russian bees are resistant against the Varroa. Go to the following website and you can see a Russian Vaporizer. http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln 

Look at the Internet, Oxalic Acid is in many plants and we eat them every day. 

I give you a few samples:
Vegetable/Oxalic acid (g/100 g) --- Amaranth/1.09  Asparagus/0.13 --- Beans, snap/0.36 --- Beet leaves/0.61--- Broccoli/0.19 --- Brussels sprouts/0.36 --- Cabbage/0.10 --- Carrot/0.50 --- Cassava/1.26 --- Cauliflower/0.15 --- Celery/0.19 --- Chicory/0.21 --- Chives/1.48 --- Collards/0.45 --- Coriander/0.01 --- Corn, sweet/0.01 --- Cucumbers/0.02 --- Eggplant/0.19 --- Endive/0.11 --- Garlic/0.36 --- Kale/0.02 --- Lettuce/0.33 --- Okra/0.05 --- Onion/0.05 --- Parsley/1.70 --- Parsnip/0.04 --- Pea/0.05 --- Pepper/0.04 --- Potato/0.05 --- Purslane/1.31 --- Radish/0.48 --- Rutabaga/0.03 --- Spinach/0.97 --- Squash/0.02 --- Sweet potato/0.24 --- Tomato/0.05 --- Turnip/0.21 --- Turnip greens/.05.

If you using FGMO is fine as long as your bees survive but be awake, loggermike worked with FGMO also and you can read what happen to his bees. He is not the only one, but most beekeepers are too proud to tell others when they made a mistake. I often heard, let them made their one experience.
Alfred has right, the only way to tread the bees during the cold season is from the outside without opening the hives. Vaporize the acid and blow it slow in the hive. Without any brood it will kill up to 95% or more mites and after 7 days treat them again and you get almost all mites. There is no more treatment necessary before July or August but be careful and test the drone cells during the summer youre not the only beekeeper in your area.

I keeping bees since 1975 and fight the mites since 1981 I like to help beekeepers if they have trouble with there bees.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Is oxalic acid available in the US? If so where or how do you get it?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

When I read all the great results of FGMO,my first thoughts were also "They will learn the hard way!" Especially when I see the flak that gets thrown at anyone who posts an opposing point of view on some forums.But beginners have a hard enough time as it is so I figured I would post my failure with it.Take it or leave it,I didnt have any axe to grind when I started and in fact was sure it would work.
I am not going to recommend any 'unapproved treatments' but the Europeans have been way ahead of us all along on mite research ,and as our friends from Germany pointed out ,the information is freely available on the net.
I have been at this for over 30 years and have seen it all,but varroa is the worst.
---Mike


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Boy we sure got off the original subject in a hurry!Barry is right ,pick a day when there is some flight then get in there and jerk em out before the bees know what happened.Personally I would just get them out no matter what the weather,but that is just my way ,sometimes you have to take some stings and kill some bees to get things done.
---Mike


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Please don't take this as on opinion on what is better for mite treatment. I don't know. But as far as approval. FGMO is an approved food additive. If it kills the mites, I don't believe it needs approval. Plus, according to the studies that have been done, they haven't found it in the honey anyway. It is inert. It doesn't do anything chemically in a human's system. It is not digested or used in any way.

I don't know the satus of Oxalic acid as a food additive. I do know that my book of poisonous plants lists anything that has an excess of Oxalic acid as poisonous. Oxalic acid is not inert. It may be that in small amounts it is harmless, but that still may require approval.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Oxalic and formic acids are both naturally present in honey in very tiny amounts.Using them as mite treatments when honey is being made no doubt would increase these levels,possibly to the point of being harmful.So anyone using these must be very careful.Coumaphos is approved and tiny residues are allowed in honey as well as other food products.Certainly not an ideal situation.I am sure that FGMO(a petroleum product) is not a natural product occuring in honey,but I agree it is harmless in any quantity that might show up in honey,and the tests have shown no residue anyway.It would be ideal,I just couldnt get the results claimed for it.Increasing the frequency of fogging in late summer theoretically would lower the re-infestation levels IF IN FACT fogging kills the mites,something I am not convinced is true.Experiments need to be done with highly infested hives and sticky boards.Maybe something like count natural mite drop for a week from untreated hives to determine a base level of infestation.When you get an overnight drop of 10 mites start fogging.After maybe 3 weekly treatments you should note an increase in mites dropping(check every morning)Then a final treatment with coumaphos or oxalic to determine if a lot of mites escaped the FGMO.For instance if during fogging the mite drop increased to 150 overnight,that would be a good indicator that FGMO was having an effect(although the sticky board might mess the results as it will trap mites that otherwise might climb back up).But if your final test treatment of oxalic dropped 2000 mites you would know that too many were escaping FGMO to be effective.On the other hand a low mite count would tend to show that it was effective.Im sure there are flaws in this experiment,Im just making it up as I type and I havent had enough coffee yet this morning.Any ideas?
---Mike


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Hello -

Axtmann wrote:
"how long do you keep bees?"

Long enough to know I don't know everything









Axtmann wrote:
"The Internet is a great thing and all you have to do, go and search und you will find answers for all your questions."

You may find plenty of answers on the Net, but you would be a fool to believe that they are all facts. We must take as much of the information as we can and examine it all, both pro and con, and try and retain that which will stand the test of time.

Axtmann wrote:
"how about your oil fogging is this government approved?"

Yes, to the degree that it is readily available in stores and suitable for human consumption. Non-chemical methods do not have to be "approved" by our government before we can use them.

Axtmann wrote:
"Oxalic Acid is in many plants and we eat them every day."

This does not make it safe. We are far exceeding the amounts found naturally in plants when putting it into our hives. This is no more natural than FGMO. Using nothing would be natural.

Axtmann wrote:
"loggermike worked with FGMO also and you can read what happen to his bees. He is not the only one, but most beekeepers are too proud to tell others when they made a mistake. I often heard, let them made their one experience."

I am all for letting the chips fall where they may. I have no agenda to profit from and encourage people to share their own experience with any treatment or procedure. I am well aware that Mike did not have positive results on his bees using FGMO. This alone does not disprove or prove anything. It is one persons experience. There are those that are telling of good results from using it. We must keep sharing and asking questions to help us better understand what might be causing the different results.

You give reference to a study done on FGMO that does not show positive results. Pedro has given results of work done by others showing positive results. The truth is there somewhere but it is not obvious.

I want to help beekeepers deal with the ailments that face the bees too. However, I seek safe, low impact methods first, and invest my resources to further that cause because I have been down the chemical road and it does not have a pleasant ending. There are alternatives, but they require work from the beekeeper.

I am merely pointing out that your assertions that FGMO does not work based on a study done, does not make it the final word. I give far more weight to personal experience than to some study, often done with far too few bees in an unnatural setting. The final word is still out on this one.

Regards,
Barry


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

loggermike wrote:
"Unfortunately,most of the hives I tried FGMO on broke down with varroa in late summer.I suppose it may have some value in areas where the bees arent constantly being re-infested,but it certainly did not work here!"

Mike, did you see Pedro's article in ABJ January issue? He wrote:

"The road to success during all these years has not been all roses and glory. Of special interest has been discovering why hives that showed few if any mites during the early months of the season would suddenly jump to very high mite drop counts and high incidence of phoretic mites in late July and August. I knew from experience that bees naturally rob their neighbors when weak and ill. It occurred to me that I needed to find an explanation for this sudden rise in mites and furthermore to develop a technique to test it.

I bought five small vials of automobile touch-up paint and started placing tiny specks of paint on the wings of my bees in healthy colonies. Late that day and the days after, I noticed what looked like a rainbow of colors in test (untreated) colonies. Eureka, here was the source of the sudden upsurge in mite populations in the treated hives. The pilfering bees were not only robbing the honey of the sick hives, but they were also bringing home a different load - mites. This assumption was tested as true in recent years by merely altering the sequence of treatments in test hives, especially this year as shown in the figures in Table 1."

Could this have been the cause of your bee loss? Did you alter the timing of the application at all?

Regards,
Barry


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I read the explanation given by Dr. R. for late summer collapse caused by re-infestation and I believe it makes perfect sense.I did not increase the fogging frequency,but in hindsight I should have.I only did the recommended timing.Maybe results would have been different with once a week fogging.I hate to totally abandon an approach that would seem to have so much in its favor,so I may try some more experimentation this coming season.What I really need to know is what percent of mites are actually knocked down and die from the fogging.That is the key to stopping the late summer re-infestations.(I am surrounded by thousands of hives at various times of the season,so you can see this is a tough situation)
---Mike


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Barry, you wrote:
"FYI, oxalic is not approved for use in the U.S. It may work good, but like all chemicals, it too has a limited life of effectiveness on mites. We are already hearing of oxalic resistant mites from parts of Europe."
I don't understand, how could an insect develop a resistance to a corrosive acid? As I understand it, the insects suction-mouth part is corroded away by the acid resulting in it starving to death.
Bill
It seems to me, resistance is futile.

[This message has been edited by BULLSEYE BILL (edited January 05, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by BULLSEYE BILL (edited January 05, 2003).]


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## margot (Jun 25, 2001)

Michael, thanks for the link to the photos of your very creative hive arrangements. I was surprised to see the small size of the starter strip. What size cells do bees produce when given only a starter strip? Does the size of the cells on the strip have any influence?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael, thanks for the link to the photos of your very creative hive arrangements.

You are welcome. Also thank Barry for posting them.

>I was surprised to see the small size of the starter strip. What size cells do bees produce when given only a starter strip? 

Unfortunately the answer is "it depends". It depends on the size of cells on the on the strip, and the time of year and the place in the hive. I'm using 4.9mm foundation. If the bees intend it for brood and they are large cell bees (5.4mm or so) they build about 5.1mm or so the first try at regressing. If they are intending it for honey they build it closer to 5.4 or 5.5. The starter helps set the pattern, but in the end they do what they want. I mostly use it to keep the comb straight and centered in the frame.

>Does the size of the cells on the strip have any influence?

Sometimes. (see above)

I am planning on doing more of making my own blank foundation for starter strips with no cells embossed and let the bees do what they want.


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## wishthecuttlefish (Jun 24, 2003)

Bullseye Bill wrote:
>I don't understand, how could an insect develop a resistance to a corrosive acid? As I understand it, the insects suction-mouth part is corroded away by the acid resulting in it starving to death.

Answer: The same way organisms have developed resistance to high water pressures, extreme temperatures, and toxic chemical levels near vents at the bottom of the ocean...


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

Well thats true, the same way a steelworker gets resistant to liquid steel after 40 years working in a foundry.
We using oxalic acid since 1978 and still waiting for a resistant but nothing happen. And now with the oxalic vaporizer we have the best results ever. 

Answer: The same way organisms have developed resistance to high water pressures, extreme temperatures, and toxic chemical levels near vents at the bottom of the ocean...

These organisms are not mites and the development takes in the evolution approx 150 to 200 million years.

Cuttlefish dont start with acid treatments if the evolution works faster you might lose your bees.


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## wishthecuttlefish (Jun 24, 2003)

Actually, no one knows how long evolution might take for a given change. It is a misunderstanding of natural selection theory that says that changes, even major ones, only occur over millions of years. In fact, genetic and evolutionary theory simply does not prohibit a mutation occurring that would provide an organism with protection from a substance like oxalic acid in a relatively short amount of time. Is it probable? Perhaps not. However, my argument is simply this: to make a blanket statement that it is impossible for mites to ever build a resistance to oxalic acid is false. And to say that "it hasn't happened yet" as proof that it can't happen at all represents the epitome of bad logic and science. Examples in nature show that many highly developed organisms live and breed happily in far more dangerous environments and substances. We don't know how long it took to develop such resistances. 
What I think people are trying to say when it comes to oxalic acid and other chemical mite controls is this: to put all your eggs in one basket is to risk losing them all. Reliance on chemical agents to try to eliminate such problems always carries with it a whole host of risks and more often than not causes as many problems as it solves.

Sincerely,
Wish


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## wishthecuttlefish (Jun 24, 2003)

Quick Follow Up - 
In response to the scenario of the steel worker, this simply does not apply for the following reasons: 
1. A specific individual in a species does not "develop" a resistance. They are either born with a potential defense mechanism or they are not. That is why a steel worker does not develop any resistance to liquid steel over the course of his/her lifetime. However, should a steel worker bear a child with a mutation that renders the child more tolerant of high temperatures, and should over time this trait be selected for, then potentially a resistance in the species could be developed. In addition, it can be argued that evolution is not restricted to simply physical changes, but applies also to behavioural, social, and cultural changes, all of which may give an advanced species the ability (as it clearly has for us!) to work in highly dangerous environments. 
2. Evolutionary changes occur much faster in organisms which reproduce quickly. Bacteria for example, which can double their numbers in a matter of minutes or hours have been shown to develop resistances to adverse environmental conditions extremely fast. Mites, I dare say, reproduce VERY quickly, especially in relation to our birth rates, gestation times, etc. 

Finally, I can imagine any number of ways a mite could develop a resistance to oxalic acid, both physical and behavioral. Excessive mucus production is the most obvious one, and probably would not require a major mutation. I'm sure with a little imagination many more could be thought up.

Sincerely,
Wish


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You briefly touched on this, but resistance is NOT evolution. It is simply that some of a species already has a certain adaptation or ability and others of that species do not. When we apply pesticides that kill all of the ones without the ability to survive that "poison" we instanly shift the population toward those that can survive that.

In the case of Oxalic acid, it remains to be seen if any of the mites can survive it or not. But if any of them have the ability to survive it, they will live while the others die and pass it on to their decendents. They don't have to evolve this protection they either have it or they don't.

What Apitstan and Check mite do to a mites system should not be survivable by a mite, but some of them do survive. And they pass that ability on.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

so is there resistance to oxalic acid? And can i use it in the USA? SW_TR


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

Swarm trapper I can give you at least 10 addresses from bee institutes in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. You can send your question to all of them but I can tell you right here the answers. 
Oxalic acid has been tested in Germany and is a Varroa treatment since 1979, in Russia since 1980 and in other parts of Europe since round 1982. There is no oxalic acid resistant after over 25 year and there is no resistant possible, same with all the other organic acids. Some plants like Rhubarb have a high percentage oxalic acid to protect them self against bugs and it works for millions of years. Why?? Because the bugs could not get resistant .so far.


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