# Green Drone Frames



## bid (Jun 1, 2013)

I plan on experimenting with the green drone frames in an effort to interrupt the Varroa mite development cycle. Have you found it best to use them in the outer frame positions or somewhere else? In the lower deep hive body or the top one?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

JMO, but I don't know why anybody would want to encourage the production of full frames of drones, yes I know the bees will raise them somewhere anyway, but that quantity? I may be wrong, but I don't think I have heard of a study that shows they help with varroa either, I think its flawed logic that they do some good. I would rather my queen spend her time laying worker eggs, and have the hive's resources go towards them instead. John


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

jmgi said:


> JMO, but I don't know why anybody would want to encourage the production of full frames of drones, yes I know the bees will raise them somewhere anyway, but that quantity? I may be wrong, but I don't think I have heard of a study that shows they help with varroa either, I think its flawed logic that they do some good. I would rather my queen spend her time laying worker eggs, and have the hive's resources go towards them instead. John


I read a study somewhere that said given a choice, Varroa will lay in a drone cell 97% of the time. So a frame full of drone, has more varroa, and you can freeze the capped drone brood and kill the Varroa without killing any workers. My problem is they fill it with honey, Probably because I keep it on the outside.


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## Jon B (Apr 24, 2013)

Does anyone sell a green drone frame that would fit in a medium brood box?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I keep one in the lower box in the #10 position. If I put it in the upper box they tend to use it for honey storage.


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## cklspencer (Jun 21, 2010)

I use a frame with a starter strip and just cut out the drone comb every 4 weeks. I put the frame in 2 and 9 position if I have brood in the 3 and 7. If there is no brood in the 3 or 7 than I put it there.
I use the frame with a starter strip so I don't have to run frames to and from the freezer, i just cut out the comb and go. Bees want drones so they are more likely to build out drone comb on that frames since it gives them a nice place to put it. 

Randy Oliver has written about it a few times. Here is a link so some info and there in more on his site as well if you go looking for it. http://scientificbeekeeping.com/fighting-varroa-the-silver-bullet-or-brass-knuckles-2/


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## buzzsaw (Jul 2, 2011)

Bid,

I have the green drone frames and hate them. I find it hard to manage by pulling the frames and transferring to freezer and replacing - especially in the out yards. Also find the plastic frames provide a shb shelter. I will be throwing out my green drone frames next year and replacing this part of my ipm management with the placement of a medium frame in a deep box instead of using the green drone frames. I am told the bees will use the extra space below the medium frame to build the drone comb. When pulling just cut the drone comb off as if it was burr comb and discard.

Jon B - You could use this same system by placing a shallow in a medium box.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

What happens when you have drone frames in all your hives, and you fall off a ladder and hit your head badly and get amnesia for a period of time, and you don't remove the frames in time and the drones all hatch out, now what have you got?  John


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

> I read a study somewhere that said given a choice, Varroa will lay in a drone cell 97% of the time.


That may be true. It's that pesky 3% that throws a wrench in the works. 

Killing mites in drone comb leaves mites in worker comb. Those surviving worker comb mites reproduce and make mites that prefer worker comb. Pretty soon, your drone comb method is useless as most of your mites are now in worker comb.

Michael Bush laid out this theory in a thread at some point. I was thinking seriously about trying this system until I read that.


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## bid (Jun 1, 2013)

So, if I can reliably retrieve the green frames after the drone are capped at day 10 and before they emerge on day 24 then the green frames serve a purpose. If I fail to get them out within this 2-week period then a bunch of drone and varroa mites get released into the hive. That's a fairly big risk. This leads me to believe I only want to use the green frames in a "treatment" mode and not a "preventative" mode.

Jon B: I may end up running my green frames through my table saw at 6-5/8" and give these "mediums" to you. LOL!


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Don't forget either, I use green drone comb not necessarily as an IPM tactic but also to help saturate an area with drones.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Drones are very underrated. Their pheromones are important as well and I let my colonies produce more than most beekeepers. we still hit 100 lbs a hive with the drones and know we are send out better genetics to the wild colonies.

I once in the spring cut out a frame of drone comb. This sets the mites back off from the get go. 

I don't agree with M. Bush on that subject. Mites need the longer period and larger cell of the drone cell to be able to increase their numbers rapidly and more successfully. Its in their nature just as the queen lays drone eggs in big cells its going to happen. 

With good genetic bees and IPM's like drone removal keeping bees has become more fun and profitable for me. 

I put the frame in the bottom box close to the center.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I hated using the green frames & threw them in the garbage. For me it was easier to put a foundationless frame in the hive. Every 3-4 weeks cut out the brood & put the frame right back in the hive.


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## bolter (Jun 27, 2013)

We like the green boards - have 2 per hive labelled with hive #. Take one out, put 1 in, store the full one in freezer. Use a calendar so that we don't forget to rotate before they hatch out & generally rotate a bit early (when it is a nice day). Mite count has been extremely low - use alcohol wash method - count of 2 & 3 in our 2 hives last Aug.


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## bid (Jun 1, 2013)

Bolter, do you put the green boards in any certain position? Do you like them in the lower or the upper hive body?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

We know that mites prefer drone cells, but why they prefer them is not entirely known in my opinion. Yes, drones take longer to mature giving mites a couple more days for them to mature, but do you think the mites know that when they climb into a drone cell as opposed to a worker cell? Maybe its pheromones that the drone larvae give off that attracts the mite, but a mite goes into a worker cell right next door at the same time, so what gives? No question drones serve a purpose in the hive beyond mating queens, but I don't know what it is. John


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

FAEEs are the precapping signals you're referring to. It seems that drone brood simply makes them for longer.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

WLC said:


> FAEEs are the precapping signals you're referring to. It seems that drone brood simply makes them for longer.


What are you talking about?


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Kairomones. Fatty acid ethyl esters or fatty acid methyl esters.

They're signals for Varroa females to enter a cell and start laying eggs.

There are also related signals to get Varroa to stop laying eggs.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

WLC said:


> There are also related signals to get Varroa to stop laying eggs.


If we could get varroa to stop laying for an extended period, that would be a great day. Not trying to derail the thread, just had to throw that out there.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

WLC, ok I got you, wasn't sure if you were referring to my last post or not. John


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

rwurster, as of now the only break we get is when we provide a brood break, or the queen shuts down for the year, in which case the mites then jump on the adults. John


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## bolter (Jun 27, 2013)

bid said:


> Bolter, do you put the green boards in any certain position? Do you like them in the lower or the upper hive body?


We keep them in the lower super, generally pos'n 3 or 8 (10 frame super).


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## parksguyy (Aug 29, 2012)

bolter said:


> We like the green boards - have 2 per hive labelled with hive #. Take one out, put 1 in, store the full one in freezer. Use a calendar so that we don't forget to rotate before they hatch out & generally rotate a bit early (when it is a nice day). Mite count has been extremely low - use alcohol wash method - count of 2 & 3 in our 2 hives last Aug.


Hey there,
I use two in each of our hives as well, we run with two deeps. It seems to work well for us, its alittle more work manipulating the frames, but we want to remain treatment (chemical) free. We have them placed in position #3 or #7. I think we could get away with only using one per hive to be honest, because they do tend to use them for honey at times. I think its best if one can simply swap the frames out, we don't have the extra ones to do that, so end up going back into the hive two days later to replace that frame. Just this week, we couldn't get back soon enough and lots of new comb built in that empty space. Might be time to purchase those spares.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I use 1 on each hive in the 3 to 7 position in the top deep. Every 21 days I remove, replace, and freeze. I do 5 hives at a time and drop the nuc size box in the freezer. The next day or week, depending on the cluster's cycle (5 hives per cluster)I remove the fresh capped frame, scratch open the frozen (now thawed) frame, replace for them to clean out and refill and close the hive up. I do this from April 1st to mid May then leave them alone. I start it back up after the July 4th harvest until they stop laying drones in Sept.

It's fast and it at the very least slows the mite numbers. When I do this after the early July harvest I also put in Hopguard when I remove the drone frames to get any mites that are out of the cells. Is it perfect? Nope, but my overwintering success did improved dramatically.


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