# swarm cell question



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Once the swarm cell has been started, when does the old queen leave?


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## crabbydad (Apr 29, 2012)

usually around when it is capped


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

So after I see it, its already too late?


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

So then would that be the time to do a Tasanov (?) split or shake out method?


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

There's a difference between an open queen cell and a closed capped one. And there is a difference between a supercedure queen cell(s) and a whole set of swarm queen cells. (And of course there are commonly queen _cups_, which are kind of standby - and generally ignorable - potential queen cells.)

Why not make just a simple split if you think a swarm is imminent? (See Michael Bushes website for a whole list of split possibilities.)

But it's very important to know if you are looking at swarm preparations or a potential supercedure or even just an emergeny queen cell. Interrupting either of the latter two with a split is often a very bad idea.

Enj.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Once the swarm cell has been started, when does the old queen leave?

There are always somewhere between several and many swarm cells. They are staggered in age. Usually the old queen leaves on the first nice day after the oldest queen cell is capped.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Yes I understand that. I have africanized bees. Possible swarm up to 6 times a year. So when I see one I can determine if its not to late to split or start to check the trees around or my other hives. Ive always got more coming in from cutouts. So ive got to always check and double check. Hence the question when does the original queen leave the hive?


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Thank you. Mr.Bush ,So the old queen leaves before the new queen is hatched and before mating flight?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Thank you. Mr.Bush ,So the old queen leaves before the new queen is hatched and before mating flight?

Usually, yes. If it rains for two weeks, no. If there is a sunny day in the next 7 days, yes the old queen will be gone before the first new queen emerges. For the sequence of events:
http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#letter9

Or check Quinby:
"They are about half finished when they receive the eggs. As these eggs hatch into larva;, others are begun, and receive eggs at different periods for several days later...
"STATE WHEN SWARMS ISSUE. 
"But when there is nothing precarious about the honey, the sealing of these cells is the time to expect the first swarm, which, will generally issue the first fair day after one or more are finished. I never missed a prediction for a swarm 48 hours when I 
have judged from these signs, in a prosperous season. When there is a partial failure of honey the swarm 
sometimes will wait several days after finishing them...
"OLD QUEEN LEAVES WITH THE FIRST SWARM. 
"The old queen leaves with the first swarm. As soon as cells are ready in the new hive she will deposit her eggs in them, at first for workers. The number perfected will correspond with the supply of honey and size of the swarm...
"A YOUNG QUEEN TAKES THE PLACE OF HER MOTHER IN THE OLD STOCK. 
"In ordinary circumstances, when a swarm has left a stock the oldest of the young queens is ready to emerge from her cell in about eight or nine days. If no second swarm is sent out, she will take her mother's place, and begin to lay eggs in about ten days, 
or a little less. Two or three weeks is the only time throughout the whole season, but that eggs can be found in all prosperous hives. Whenever a copious yield of honey occurs, drones are reared; as it becomes scarce, they are destroyed."--Moses Quinby, Mysteries of Beekeeping Explained


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