# The Importance of Regular Inspection



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Good admonition, Nordak. Ultimately I see that my personal management involvement should seek to augment a colony's survival. As such, regardless of our individual philosophical and/or pragmatic mindsets toward apiculture, I see the ideas of stewardship and husbandry as important components of any beekeeping effort, regardless of our paradigm.

That said, I see the validity in the argument that bees are not ‘domesticated’ in the same way that cattle, sheep or chickens are such that allowing bees to function in the most natural manner that allows for beneficial use (at least from our perspective) makes intuitive sense.

In summary, my personal opinion is that appropriate beekeeper intervention in managed apiaries is both right and prudent, allowing for the caveat that this management likely would do well to mimic by augmentation (i.e. emergency feeding) or attenuation (i.e. false swarms) a colony’s natural development processes.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Litsinger said:


> Good admonition, Nordak. Ultimately I see that my personal management involvement should seek to augment a colony's survival. As such, regardless of our individual philosophical and/or pragmatic mindsets toward apiculture, I see the ideas of stewardship and husbandry as important components of any beekeeping effort, regardless of our paradigm.
> 
> That said, I see the validity in the argument that bees are not ‘domesticated’ in the same way that cattle, sheep or chickens are such that allowing bees to function in the most natural manner that allows for beneficial use (at least from our perspective) makes intuitive sense.
> 
> In summary, my personal opinion is that appropriate beekeeper intervention in managed apiaries is both right and prudent, allowing for the caveat that this management likely would do well to mimic by augmentation (i.e. emergency feeding) or attenuation (i.e. false swarms) a colony’s natural development processes.


Litsinger, 

I believe you articulated my message much better than I could have. I didn't mean for my post to come across as admonishment, but immediately after posting, I realized it could very much come across that way. Having been away from the forum, and for all practical purposes beekeeping for a bit, I think I'm trying to regain my sea legs as it were. Last year taught me a valuable lesson, one I needed to experience to truly understand it. I think my post was probably directed at me more than any one on here. Thanks again.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Nordak said:


> Last year taught me a valuable lesson, one I needed to experience to truly understand it. I think my post was probably directed at me more than any one on here. Thanks again.


You and me both! I find that many of my posts on here are to help keep me accountable for goals I have set or reminders to avoid mistakes I have already made. FWIW, I didn't use the word 'admonishment' in a negative sense at all- more of a hearty reminder... that I was glad to be reminded about.

Best of beekeeping success to you in this coming year.

Russ


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Inspections are fine if the beekeeper knows why they are inspecting, how to efficiently achieve that purpose, what they plan to do if they find whatever it was they were looking for, and when and how often they should look for what they are looking for. Inspections often cause the very harm that the beekeeper was trying to prevent, and the bees are better at solving the problems that the beekeeper was looking for than the beekeeper is. The best reason for a new beekeeper to inspect a hive is to learn about bees.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

The best reason for new beekeepers (whether their goals are TF, or not) to do regular inspections is that you can only learn beekeeping by actually _doing it._ Your bees don't need to see you every Saturday in your first year, or so, but you need to look at them often, just to start to get a clue. Weekly is a fine interval to shoot for, since there is new stuff to see and learn about at about that pace in the first several months.

Once you know what you're looking at and whether that's "normal" or not, then you can figure out your personal strategy and management choices. 

Until you're at that level, don't rationalize your own resistance (fear, laziness, too-busy lives, etc.) as "letting the bees be bees." You signed up for the care of these animals, so it's your responsibility to follow through on your intentions. (Or give your bees away into someone else's care.) Sure bees live in the wild - but they might not have chosen to live in the same circumstances offered by managed hive's location and equipment. 

If you stick it out, though, you may find yourself caught up in a wonderfully rewarding, long-term, avocation, one that gives you joy and mental stimulation for years. (Not to mention sweet honey, if that's goal.)

Nancy


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Nordak;1715151....../ said:


> When some in the community throw around catch phrases that include wording like lazy beekeeping and letting them be, I think that's a huge mistake..


For the fun of, Nordak, let me be a devil's advocate. 
Hehe..

Indeed, I can confirm that too many new beekeepers get brainwashed into the so-called "lazy/natural" beekeeping without knowing the very basics (not just beekeeping, but basic physics, geometry and so on).
Then we have issues.
Especially so if we have limited volume/fixed size hives to manage.

However, I still believe that low maintenance/infrequent inspection beekeeping is entirely possible at present date (see Layen's/Lazutin style).
People are doing exactly this using Lazutin-style hives and local populations of bees.

This will require:
1) a large horizontal hive that requires no box moves by a human and with the size equivalent of 20+ deep Dadant frames/120L+ in volume - this to prevent space constraints and allow for gradual colony growth at their own pace.
2) low maintenance bee that require no pest treatments and not prone to uncontrollable swarming.

About it.
Of course, the hives will be large and heavy (to the point of unpractical mobility).
As well as bees need to be selected NOT for being "gentle" and "easy to handle" (another typical catch phrase).
Bees need to be selected for survival - as the #1 criteria before any other criteria is considered (this will often mean a very defensive bee and the proper management needs to be around the bee).

Otherwise, search for "владимирский улей" for examples very rear inspection-based management (still need to do a spring inspection/cleanup/setup; other inspections are less critical).
Like here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAu5xmzDeL4

I have few videos just posted under "Lazutin hive" in the Horizontal hives.
There is a good case demonstrated of combined spring inspection/honey harvest - as a single inspection.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

nordak
You have not posted much for awhile. I missed you. I don't know what happened for you last year.

I have never counted brood combs in a hive though I could see equalizing hives early being an advantage for honey per hive production. I got in my hives about every five days last year while trying to make myself go 15 days or so once the flow was on. I very seldom go deep and more just look at an over view of how many bees there are and when I might run out of space. Early spring, I tip the second box and look for queen cups/cells and so that is more important to do more often.

My whole goal since starting out has been to look just good enough to learn what things look like so that I can look faster and fewer times cause a glance gives all I need. I don't think I am there yet cause I am still lost and not sure of myself and what I am seeing, even when looking. Had I lost more queens or had more problems, I might by now recognize at a glance what I might now miss cause I have not seen it yet.

Either way, my goal is still to get to where I can see a lot with very little disruption. My guess is that some out there can tell by just looking at the entrance traffic and have an ideal of how important it might be to dig deeper. 

I need to look for cups this week. I may just pick a few that I am most worried about and not look at all based on those few. I go a lot by feeling and am not managing to get the most possible. I am expecting some mistakes and losses during this and when it happens, I hope I learn but since I am expecting it, hope it does not hurt too bad. No since on worrying about spilled milk but nice to know if the jar leaks you can fix it.

I read several books of the greats written back at the first of the century. They all seemed to have a period of great loss. It was their skill and speed of being able to pick up the pieces that seemed to be one of the things recognized by other bee keepers that was part of their greatness. They recognized this in each other. langstroth makes this very point about an early bee keeper besides addressing his own problems as they came. 

If you make improvement as you go, no sense in worrying about the small stuff. The only people who mess up are the people actually doing stuff and they are the only ones that get anything done and it is usually more then those not even trying (even with preventable mistakes being counted).
Cheers
gww


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The point of "lazy beekeeping" is to spend your efforts on things that matter. If you want bees to prosper in your hives, it will take management. That's the difference between what has always happened in the wild, which is that most swarms die rather than thrive because they get no help. But you can work yourself half to death doing things that don't need to be done, or you can spend your efforts on things that matter.


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

Perhaps it would be helpful if the phrase "treatment free management" was used more often. It is ore specific to what I see most treatment free people doing on here. tfm- the new catch phrase.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Jadeguppy said:


> Perhaps it would be helpful if the phrase "treatment free management" was used more often.


I like it, Jadeguppy! I would vote for something like, 'treatment free husbandry'... but same idea. Conveys a sense of being proactive and as Michael Bush observed, _"spend[ing] your efforts on things that matter."_ Which in our case is hopefully improved survival and surplus bees, honey and wax for our efforts.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

> *things that matter *


What are these *things*?
See what I mean?
The list is not universally defined or agreed upon anyway.

I suppose one thing is kind of agreed upon - ownership of live bees is required to be called a "bee owner" (I am not even using a "beekeeper" or "bee-haver" or "bee-saver" or "bee-breeder" or "bee-hunter" words - even these are argued about).
The rest of the things is a subject to change, qualifications, personal goals, local regulations, agreements/disagreements, whatever else.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Speaking of the actual subject - "The Importance of Regular Inspection"....

I might just be a subject of hardly any inspections for the summer - a single parent for three months, June through September.
And so what is my strategy? Haha!

The strategy is to work the bees in a very strategic fashion:
- set the traps out and most likely forget about them until when I have time 
(as long as bees move in, I don't care - they can stay in the traps into the fall)
- must find time to do the strategic splits for expansion - this one is important
- set all live colonies into Layens equipment in automatic anti-swarming configs - just a best-effort thing
(strategically placed dummy frame should separate the actively used portion from the spill-over portion of the hive; one suspect hive will probably try to swarm anyway - to be watched if only possible)

If I have time to inspect bees and work the swarms, I will anyway.

But if my spouse finds out the kids were forgotten in favor of the bees while she was gone - I am in some trouble. 
And then the apples, and potatoes, and the veg patch; and the actual paying job.
Have to be smart and prioritize.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

enjambres said:


> Until you're at that level, don't rationalize your own resistance (fear, laziness, too-busy lives, etc.) as "letting the bees be bees." You signed up for the care of these animals, so it's your responsibility to follow through on your intentions. (Or give your bees away into someone else's care.) Sure bees live in the wild - but they might not have chosen to live in the same circumstances offered by managed hive's location and equipment.


To me, this is a ridiculous statement, and Nancy I mean no disrespect to you, but it is really no one's business what I do with my bees. And I certainly won't accept anyone telling me to "give your bees away" if I don't have time to manage them (or not) to someone else's standard.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

thehackleguy said:


> To me, this is a ridiculous statement, and Nancy I mean no disrespect to you, but it is really no one's business what I do with my bees. And I certainly won't accept anyone telling me to "give your bees away" if I don't have time to manage them (or not) to someone else's standard.


I have to agree some (outside of the wording maybe).
No one signed up for anything when getting themselves a box of these insects somehow.
The only thing one "signed up for" - conforming to the local/state/federal regulations about keeping those certain insects around people and pets/livestock (IF such regulations exist).
Otherwise, honey bees are not on a federal list of endangered species to be concerned about.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

GregV said:


> I have to agree some (outside of the wording maybe).
> No one signed up for anything when getting themselves a box of these insects somehow.
> The only thing one "signed up for" - conforming to the local/state/federal regulations about keeping those certain insects around people and pets/livestock (IF such regulations exist).
> Otherwise, honey bees are not an endangered species to be concerned about.


I may be a little sensitive to that type of statment. Last year I did nothing, I mean absolutely nothing with my bees. I was in my last semester of Grad school and in December of 2017 my wife was diagnosed with leukemia and for most of the year (2018) I was single parenting 4 children and praying for the best outcome with my wife's treatments. If someone would have told me to give away my bees I'm betting they would not have enjoyed the response they would have received......Good news is my wife's treatments worked! and she is currently cancer free and I'm back to beekeeping rather than bee-having


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What are these things?

That depends on your goals.

>See what I mean?

Of course.

>The list is not universally defined or agreed upon anyway.

Because different people have different goals.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Michael Bush said:


> >What are these things?
> 
> That depends on your goals.
> 
> ...


And so - I feel more and more - my current bee-monkeying goal #1 - self-medication.
Some people drink.
Some people do drugs.
I bee-monkey, whatever it means at the moment at hand.

And so - I can do whatever I feel like at the moment the around bees - to *self-medicate.*
This simple idea I am yet to see anywhere to be clearly pronounced.
But it exists and is true and is a part of a bigger picture (not just honey & wax).


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

thehackleguy said:


> I may be a little sensitive to that type of statment. Last year I did nothing, I mean absolutely nothing with my bees. I was in my last semester of Grad school and in December of 2017 my wife was diagnosed with leukemia and for most of the year (2018) I was single parenting 4 children and praying for the best outcome with my wife's treatments. If someone would have told me to give away my bees I'm betting they would not have enjoyed the response they would have received......Good news is my wife's treatments worked! and she is currently cancer free and I'm back to beekeeping rather than bee-having


I am with you.
Like I said - the idea of self-medication by bee-working is, somehow, totally ignored as if it does not exist.
But outside of some consumable bee products, the mental bee-therapy is probably more valuable too me, I feel.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

My apologies for the off-top rants. Need the meds and it shows.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Yes Greg, working the bees is very therapeutic. Helps me deal with the unpredictability of married life, 30 years this June. What one does with their bees and how they manage them is of no concern to others, but I do agree with Nancy in that if you choose to be a beekeeper, you owe the bees the best that you can give them consistant with your management objectives. To often you hear of an otherwise viable hive sucumbing to poor management.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Thanks for all the varied responses, and I wholeheartedly agree with most of what all of you are saying. I'm trying to get my beekeeping "mojo" back, and I think I need to get out in the yard more and live less in my headspace. I've missed beekeeping, and I've missed many in the community. 

gww, so glad to see you are still beekeeping, and it's good to see you too. I've always thoroughly enjoyed your company here on beesource.

MB, I didn't mean to specifically point you out. Having read much of your work, I understand what you mean. It's a balance I'm trying to get back to. You're a huge reason I started beekeeping in the first place. 

Greg, we've had many discussions and I always enjoy them. We're pretty like minded in many regards, and I think this post was a bit of a self-check on where I'm at this year. I'm hoping this will be your best year yet, and I know it won't discourage you one bit if it isn't. Keep on being you, man.

Enjambres, good to see you. You're probably the most knowledgeable voice here on Beesource in regard to bee management I've ever read. Your posts provide a wealth of knowledge, and I admire you taking the time to help so many folks who have had questions. 

In any case, I'm glad to be back and I'm looking forward to hearing more about everyone's experiences this year.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Inspections are stressful to bees. The purpose for the inspection needs to have a value to the beekeeper that exceeds the cost to the beekeeper of the stress to the bees and the inconvenience to the beekeeper. That value can be fun, education, or improved production if that floats your boat.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

I've killed bees with too much fussing, and killed them with not enough. Its all learning with a bit of acquired wisdom thrown in, and maybe that's what we should be after.


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## clong (Apr 6, 2015)

Riverderwent said:


> Inspections are stressful to bees. The purpose for the inspection needs to have a value to the beekeeper that exceeds the cost to the beekeeper of the stress to the bees and the inconvenience to the beekeeper. That value can be fun, education, or improved production if that floats your boat.


River,

I appreciate this reminder. This year I am training myself to use a "quiet box" during inspections. The couple of times I've used it, and remembered to keep open boxes covered, the bees have seemed much calmer. Using the smoker less, and getting in and out quickly helps to reduce stress as well.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

lharder said:


> I've killed bees with too much fussing, and killed them with not enough. Its all learning with a bit of acquired wisdom thrown in, and maybe that's what we should be after.


👍


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

thehackleguy said:


> Good news is my wife's treatments worked! and she is currently cancer free and I'm back to beekeeping rather than bee-having


Hackleguy: I am really glad to hear that your wife is cancer-free. Best of success in your beekeeping efforts this year!


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

JWPalmer said:


> Helps me deal with the unpredictability of married life, 30 years this June.


JW:

Congratulations to you and your wife on 30 years of marriage- this is quite an accomplishment.

Here's hoping the next 30 years are even better than the last 30- and best of success with your beekeeping this year.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

lharder said:


> I've killed bees with too much fussing, and killed them with not enough. Its all learning with a bit of acquired wisdom thrown in, and maybe that's what we should be after.


I killed a valuable queen last year.
I did not mean it, I was just inspecting (for a good reason too - splitting)...
With a bad result.


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