# How the heck are people catching 15-20 swarms?!!



## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

I have 2 swarm traps I am preparing to deploy. I have Swarm Commander and a few good locations. But I am curious why some ppl are super effective at catching swarms. The numbers I see posted are high. 

*What are the 3 main things that contribute to your success in catching swarms?*


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

I’m in the same boat! Some just know all the good fishing spots I guess!


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Location? There just are not that many beehives near where I live. Most I have caught in traps is 2 in one year.


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## Hobo (Mar 4, 2014)

Last year I caught 13 swarms. So far this year I have caught six swarms. I think the reason I have been able to catch so many swarms is that I am a bad beekeeper that allows his hives to swarm. (I typically do not mark my queens. One queen this year had a white dot that indicates she was marked this year by another beekeeper.)
I have around 30 to 45 hives in my yard depending on the time of year. My numbers may be slightly off but last year I think I caught around seven swarms in boxes and the remaining six I captured on limbs and branches. The six swarms caught so far this year were all caught in boxes. I use the Swarm Trooper box with Swarm Commander as the lure. Works like a charm. (Note: One swarm last year moved into a nuc I had prepared for another purpose and one swarm this year moved into a single deep where the previous colony died and I was too lazy to take the hive down.)
My greatest success has been where I put the Swarm Trooper on a deer stand leaning against the shop building in my back yard. I think I caught three or four there last year and five so far this year. This year as soon as I move a swarm to a hive box and get the Swarm Trooper set back up another swarm moves in. I am using only the top portion of the deer stand. The seat where the swarm box sits is a little more than 4 1/2 feet off the ground. I use a piece of tie wire to secure the strap to the deer stand so the box does not blow over. When I place a Swarm Trooper on a hive stand, top of a 55-gallon drum, etc. I either sandwich it between two cinder blocks or use a ratchet strap to secure it.
The Swarm Troopers I am using are the earlier version that hold five frames. I bought a few of the new version that hold six frames and are shorter and wider (and maybe less top heavy) but I have not tried them yet. Inside the swarm box I put one or two frames with old dark comb that swarms find attractive and give the queen somewhere to start laying immediately. I fill out the box with frames and foundation. Sometimes I use a frame or two with starter strips (but I do not put two starter strip frames side-by-side because the bees may build comb across the frames.) Before installing the frames I give a light puff of Swarm Commander inside the entrance, a squirt on the underside of the cover at the rear and one end of a Q-tip (that got squirted when I sprayed the cover) sits on top of the center frame at the rear of the box.
The 55-gallon drum beside the swarm box is where I put the bees when I transfer them from the swarm box to a hive box. This places them close enough to the old entrance location that most the bees should be able to find their new home. Because the bees will be oriented to this location I cannot easily move the hive to the other side of my yard. So I usually either move them to the stand beside the drum or I move them to another yard I have in the next county over.


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## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

Hobo said:


> Last year I caught 13 swarms. So far this year I have caught six swarms. I think the reason I have been able to catch so many swarms is that I am a bad beekeeper that allows his hives to swarm. (I typically do not mark my queens. One queen this year had a white dot that indicates she was marked this year by another beekeeper.)
> I have around 30 to 45 hives in my yard depending on the time of year. My numbers may be slightly off but last year I think I caught around seven swarms in boxes and the remaining six I captured on limbs and branches. The six swarms caught so far this year were all caught in boxes. I use the Swarm Trooper box with Swarm Commander as the lure. Works like a charm. (Note: One swarm last year moved into a nuc I had prepared for another purpose and one swarm this year moved into a single deep where the previous colony died and I was too lazy to take the hive down.)
> My greatest success has been where I put the Swarm Trooper on a deer stand leaning against the shop building in my back yard. I think I caught three or four there last year and five so far this year. This year as soon as I move a swarm to a hive box and get the Swarm Trooper set back up another swarm moves in. I am using only the top portion of the deer stand. The seat where the swarm box sits is a little more than 4 1/2 feet off the ground. I use a piece of tie wire to secure the strap to the deer stand so the box does not blow over. When I place a Swarm Trooper on a hive stand, top of a 55-gallon drum, etc. I either sandwich it between two cinder blocks or use a ratchet strap to secure it.
> The Swarm Troopers I am using are the earlier version that hold five frames. I bought a few of the new version that hold six frames and are shorter and wider (and maybe less top heavy) but I have not tried them yet. Inside the swarm box I put one or two frames with old dark comb that swarms find attractive and give the queen somewhere to start laying immediately. I fill out the box with frames and foundation. Sometimes I use a frame or two with starter strips (but I do not put two starter strip frames side-by-side because the bees may build comb across the frames.) Before installing the frames I give a light puff of Swarm Commander inside the entrance, a squirt on the underside of the cover at the rear and one end of a Q-tip (that got squirted when I sprayed the cover) sits on top of the center frame at the rear of the box.
> ...


Super helpful! Thanks for the info. So most of the swarms you catch are from your own bees ?


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## Hobo (Mar 4, 2014)

marcos bees said:


> So most of the swarms you catch are from your own bees ?


Probably. But not by design. I make splits, etc. to head off swarming but I cannot stop all of them from swarming. 
Another guy a mile up the road has about 80 hives. I wonder if the marked queen was his.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

marcos bees said:


> I have 2 swarm traps I am preparing to deploy. I have Swarm Commander and a few good locations. But I am curious why some ppl are super effective at catching swarms. The numbers I see posted are high.
> 
> *What are the 3 main things that contribute to your success in catching swarms?*


location
location
location

GG


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Location is a big part of it. There are several paces I call "hot spots" that I get swarm calls or cut out calls every year that are very very close to each other.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

well you need first lots of bees swarming in that area, no bees in the area will produce no swarms...
and not many bee trees or sites the bees can find, "lack of bee homes" 0 days of supply for you realtor types
and a travel corridor helps, bees travel in certain "pathways" having the trap there is also a plus.

GG


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## Pazuzu (May 8, 2021)

I have no doubt in my mind that catching dozens of swarms in a season is a good indication of a careless beekeeper close by.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

sounds judgmental....
what if he has 100 hives is 12-20 % careless?
maybe he is letting them swarm to re queen.
maybe there are a bunch in trees and they are just being "normal" which is to reproduce each year.
could be a valley between to large habitat areas, where bees are looking to get to the "other side"

Or you could be spot on. 
if it weren't for the "carless keepers" free bees would be harder to come by.

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

The local dynamics - all it is to it.

You must have bees in the vicinity.
The more bees the better for the swarm chaser.
The more those bees swarm is better for the swarm chaser.

Keep in mind that the local dynamics change year by a year.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Pazuzu said:


> I have no doubt in my mind that catching dozens of swarms in a season is a good indication of a careless beekeeper close by.


I used to beat myself up about this, and it still annoys me that I can't seem to keep a lid on the swarming, at least through the nectar flow. However, my swarm season starts the third week in February and my nectar flow is not over until the end of June. I have split, I have Snelgroved, I have cut cells, I have checkerboarded, I have pyramided, I have served up burnt offerings to the bee gods. In climates that maintain year-round brood nests and less than 10 total days under 32F (daytime), swarming is going to just happen. It is not a matter of more space. It is a matter of sex drive. Their desire to procreate and the extremely long window our climate gives them to do it, creates a no-win situation for me when battling swarming. It is like telling 20 year old co-eds not to have sex at a clothing optional college. Might as well go down to the ocean and try to hold back the tide while you are at it. 

So, it is in these areas that you hear of dozens of swarms caught annually. 

The upside is that I have drones by the end of January and can graft by the end of February and I can make as many queens and nucs that I can build boxes and frames for.


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## Newbeek2021 (May 13, 2021)

Lmao at your analogies! +1


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

having 100+ hives in a single location?

lol, that's something beyond what I realized was possible.

What sort of place do you?


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

username00101 said:


> having 100+ hives in a single location?
> 
> lol, that's something beyond what I realized was possible.
> 
> What sort of place do you?


I do not , I have seen it.

GG


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## 123989 (Jul 30, 2018)

Pazuzu said:


> I have no doubt in my mind that catching dozens of swarms in a season is a good indication of a careless beekeeper close by.


You cannot call someone careless if they chose to let their bees swarm. If you chose to try and stop yours that is fine as well. 
Swarming is what bees do, it is a natural act and one that is hard to stop. I myself have caught 20 swarms this year. One or two may have come from my hives I don’t know. The majority are from swarm traps back in the mountains away from any people at all much less beekeepers.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Something interesting ive noticed is that bee yards must attract other folks bees. I have caught 7 swarms this year so far including 3 yesterday!!!!
These are all in a tree only about 15 yards from my home yard. Im sure that my own bees are likely swarming although i do my best to keep them in the boxes. Having said that im catching queens that are marked with colors i dont use on my bees meaning these swarms are coming from somewhere else. They just happen to like the tree right next to my home bee yard. The home yard at the moment has 21 double deep hives, 22 overwintering nucs, and 60 nucleus colonies in 5 frame boxes.


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## 123989 (Jul 30, 2018)

Bees do attract bees.


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## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

Anything special about that tree? How high is the trap the tree?




aran said:


> Something interesting ive noticed is that bee yards must attract other folks bees. I have caught 7 swarms this year so far including 3 yesterday!!!!
> These are all in a tree only about 15 yards from my home yard. Im sure that my own bees are likely swarming although i do my best to keep them in the boxes. Having said that im catching queens that are marked with colors i dont use on my bees meaning these swarms are coming from somewhere else. They just happen to like the tree right next to my home bee yard. The home yard at the moment has 21 double deep hives, 22 overwintering nucs, and 60 nucleus colonies in 5 frame boxes.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

aran said:


> Something interesting ive noticed is that bee yards must attract other folks bees. I have caught 7 swarms this year so far including 3 yesterday!!!!
> These are all in a tree only about 15 yards from my home yard. Im sure that my own bees are likely swarming although i do my best to keep them in the boxes. Having said that im catching queens that are marked with colors i dont use on my bees meaning these swarms are coming from somewhere else. They just happen to like the tree right next to my home bee yard. The home yard at the moment has 21 double deep hives, 22 overwintering nucs, and 60 nucleus colonies in 5 frame boxes.


yes it is true
i caught a swarm a few weeks ago in an empty hive 50 yards back from my yard.
the bees were off color for mine, I checked every hive mine did not swarm.

must be the bee smell, somewhat like old comb.

GG


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## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

So, putting a trap in an area where neighboring beekeepers have hives should yield a good result?


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

At least it will have a better possibility of a swarm than no bees in an area.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

marcos bees said:


> So, putting a trap in an area where neighboring beekeepers have hives should yield a good result?


The result probability will be greater than zero, but probability still remains just that - the probability.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

marcos bees said:


> Anything special about that tree? How high is the trap the tree?


Its a washington hawthorn tree. Perhaps 15 feet tall total. The bees are all accumulating on the trap or the trunk/ branch next to the trap about 6 feet off the ground. I have been using my bee vacuum to get them in addition to their going into the trap ( which i keep taking down, moving to another yard and replacing with a freshly baited trap). The swarms that have landed on the main trunk of the tree i cant shake into a box so i have just used the vacuum to get them all.


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## 123989 (Jul 30, 2018)

marcos bees said:


> Anything special about that tree? How high is the trap the tree?


The trap must be 10 to 12 feet off the ground……except when it doesn’t. There are no hard and fast rules for swarm traps. Even if there were rules no one had informed the bees of these rules. It’s almost like the bees don’t care what we then.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

absolutely true. I caught another swarm this weekend at the same tree in an empty 10 frame hive i had left on the ground there. Bees dont care about our hard and fast rules concerning height/size/bait etc etc etc when it comes to traps


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## Albert McBee (May 26, 2021)

marcos bees said:


> I have 2 swarm traps I am preparing to deploy. I have Swarm Commander and a few good locations. But I am curious why some ppl are super effective at catching swarms. The numbers I see posted are high.
> 
> *What are the 3 main things that contribute to your success in catching swarms?*


1) Location.. many beekeepers in any one area
2) Location.. many wild bees in any one area
)3 Location.. ease of access to beekeepers areas
[/ENDQUOTE]


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## Duck River Honey (Mar 12, 2021)

Swarm trapping is something I absolutely love. It is amazing to me that I can catch wild stock, much like 1800’s ranchers building a spread by branding Mavericks down in Texas. Super cool. 
I like it enough I did a multi-part video series. If anyone takes the time to watch, it will give you a good foundation.


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## amk (Dec 16, 2017)

Drawn comb especially old brood comb is better than any lure. I used swarm commander at first now I just stick drawn comb and they go in.


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## 123989 (Jul 30, 2018)

amk said:


> Drawn comb especially old brood comb is better than any lure. I used swarm commander at first now I just stick drawn comb and they go in.


I still use both.


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

As has been said, you have to have swarming bees in the area. Then you have to have an acceptable box. I second the idea that drawn comb is the best bait. I still use LGO too. I have about 20 swarms from traps this year and 10 from swarm calls. That’s with 22 traps.

I have noticed several swarm traps along my trap checking routes that belong to other keepers. I have watched them get scout activity, but none have been occupied. My traps nearby have. The other guy is using 5-frame nuc boxes. I use the double deep nuc style. I don’t know what he has inside. So take what you want from that information.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Cobbler said:


> I have noticed several swarm traps along my trap checking routes that belong to other keepers. I have watched them get scout activity, but none have been occupied. My traps nearby have. The other guy is using 5-frame nuc boxes. I use the double deep nuc style. I don’t know what he has inside. So take what you want from that information.


I think it is because you have the larger cavity, scouts know that it takes a large cavity to raise a large family, no doubt about it.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

just seen last night I have a swarm in my "trap" this is the 3rd one in the spot, this year.








pounded 4 steel sign type posts into the ground a foot or so, screwed a pallet on , leveled as best I could.
have a well used bottom and top, (propolized) one well used deep with 10 frames, 4 or so are foundation. One empty medium under to allow the big swarms to "think" there is space. it is about waist high. I tend to block 2/3 or so of the entrance, so they "think" it is easy to defend. Have a squirt of swarm commander on the front of the hive, i wipe a finger in it then across the inside of the lid, so very little inside 1 squirt on the outside.

too old to be climbing up in the air, this is very serviceable from the ground, seems to work, faces south BTW.

use what works, but the first time bringing a swarm down a ladder from 15 feet up a tree, was the last time for me.

have fun

GG


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Simple enough and catching swarms. Without a ladder...........even better!


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## cdevier (Jul 17, 2010)

I have had 4 nuc boxes hanging in the tree line, for 3 1/2 years- have caught no swarms. However, there is an oak tree about 100 feet north of my four hives and when they swarm, they usually land on a 1 inch limb about 7 feet above the ground.


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## garlorco (Jun 25, 2019)

psm1212 said:


> I used to beat myself up about this, and it still annoys me that I can't seem to keep a lid on the swarming, at least through the nectar flow. However, my swarm season starts the third week in February and my nectar flow is not over until the end of June. I have split, I have Snelgroved, I have cut cells, I have checkerboarded, I have pyramided, I have served up burnt offerings to the bee gods. In climates that maintain year-round brood nests and less than 10 total days under 32F (daytime), swarming is going to just happen. It is not a matter of more space. It is a matter of sex drive. Their desire to procreate and the extremely long window our climate gives them to do it, creates a no-win situation for me when battling swarming. It is like telling 20 year old co-eds not to have sex at a clothing optional college. Might as well go down to the ocean and try to hold back the tide while you are at it.
> 
> So, it is in these areas that you hear of dozens of swarms caught annually.
> 
> The upside is that I have drones by the end of January and can graft by the end of February and I can make as many queens and nucs that I can build boxes and frames for.


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## ZooBee (Dec 11, 2020)

" burnt offerings to the bee goddess " lmao
None of my swarm traps have caught anything and I know I have other apiarys around me. My bees didn't even use it! when the one hive I didn't split swarmed out !! or the nice scion I put up in a tree to give them a place to rest.
We've caught 4 swarms this year because we are on a warm retrieval list with our local beek assoc and tis the season! 
Of course we live in a suburb of buffalo ny so its pretty urban and on the cusp of farm country.
cdevier, you need to put a scion in that Oak!!
Blue green HOrizons on fakebook is a tremendous rescuer of bees, check out his page for how he does it. I have used several of his methods very successfully.


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## garlorco (Jun 25, 2019)

psm1212 said:


> I used to beat myself up about this, and it still annoys me that I can't seem to keep a lid on the swarming, at least through the nectar flow. However, my swarm season starts the third week in February and my nectar flow is not over until the end of June. I have split, I have Snelgroved, I have cut cells, I have checkerboarded, I have pyramided, I have served up burnt offerings to the bee gods. In climates that maintain year-round brood nests and less than 10 total days under 32F (daytime), swarming is going to just happen. It is not a matter of more space. It is a matter of sex drive. Their desire to procreate and the extremely long window our climate gives them to do it, creates a no-win situation for me when battling swarming. It is like telling 20 year old co-eds not to have sex at a clothing optional college. Might as well go down to the ocean and try to hold back the tide while you are at it.
> 
> So, it is in these areas that you hear of dozens of swarms caught annually.
> 
> The upside is that I have drones by the end of January and can graft by the end of February and I can make as many queens and nucs that I can build boxes and frames for.


Thank you for sharing that.
It has been a pretty prolific year here for swarming. Many old timers have said that it is the most they have ever experienced. And I do not excuse my beekeeping skills which definately need improving but you just can't stop nature sometimes. You can do it all right and the bees still will do what they think best. Like the weather, God is ultimately in control. Trust in God but hobble your horses.


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## garlorco (Jun 25, 2019)

marcos bees said:


> I have 2 swarm traps I am preparing to deploy. I have Swarm Commander and a few good locations. But I am curious why some ppl are super effective at catching swarms. The numbers I see posted are high.
> 
> *What are the 3 main things that contribute to your success in catching swarms?*


1. Location. If there are no bees around you then you will never catch swarms. So take a look around where you are setting those traps out. Are there other bee hives tended or natural within a mile?
2. Get the right kind of home they are looking for. Bees send out scouts to vote on habitability. I have had an off the hook year for swarms and lost more than I got and those were mine!!!!!! I had traps set out to help mitigate that and they went right by them where in other years they would have taken them. If you want, I can send you the plan I use which has largely been successful. It is helpful to bait with at least some lemongrass oil or some pheromone extract and not lay it on too heavy. Put the traps where the bees would naturally run into them while foraging. Do you see bees out anyway? Where are they coming from? Although there is in my experience no distance rule, most successful traps are laid within 250 yards of the original hive from research.
3. Nature and timing. This is fickle and varies from year to year. Sometimes the mother hive had a rough winter and does not have the resources to swarm. Sometimes it does. Sometimes the beekeeper is able to prevent swarming. All this forces us to be very observant of the whole system at play and not just what we are focused on accomplishing. it means understanding how weather affects the bees and the resources they use to survive.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

cdevier said:


> I have had 4 nuc boxes hanging in the tree line, for 3 1/2 years- have caught no swarms. However, there is an oak tree about 100 feet north of my four hives and when they swarm, they usually land on a 1 inch limb about 7 feet above the ground.


These kinds of stories make me believe into the "lay lines".
The oak very well could be at the intersection of the lines.
The tree line might be way off - why the bees ignore it.
Try dowsing and see?


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

If you are interested, I have been cataloging all of my swarm adventures this year on a separate beesource thread. You can find that here: My 2021 Swarm Adventures


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## Hobo (Mar 4, 2014)

I noticed some activity at the popular swarm box yesterday and today. About 6:30 PM I glanced over and there was another swarm moving in the box. That makes six swarms caught in that one box this year. Add the three or four I caught in it last year and that makes nine or ten caught in a single box that cost me $40. I would say this Swarm Trooper has more than paid for itself. 
This latest swarm moved in before I was able to relocate the previous two swarms caught there. They have been waiting on top of 55-gallon drums beside the swarm box. I guess next time I go to the other bee yard I will take three hives instead of two.


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## mrqb (Jul 17, 2011)

Trump helps them, Biden helps them, Kim Flottum taught them , beesource gave them secrets, and there all addicted to bee's. That addiction start's after you watch Chris Farley movies. just so you know. You have to live in the right area, or be terrible at math. Thanks for asking a question i've had for years. i live in a county that is 25 miles wide and 50 miles long. and i am the first person called if there's a report of a swarm. "Ya know bee's scare people". most calls in a year last 10 yrs. is 3. Live on 40 acres of pasture ,timber in heart of Illinois. most swarms captured with bait hives last 12 years that were not from my own hives. 1.....,now for the record, how do i know i'm first called, my wife works at sherriffs dept., not to hijack your thread, but maybe the people claiming these big catches can give us ol' farts, some advice, not just claims


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I would not think the dispatcher at the sheriffs office would be the first place to be called.
I get more calls from pest control companies than anybody. Make up some business cards and hand them out to every pest control guy you see. Then answer your phone, even when you don't know the number, duh! Hang your business cards in places like co-op, tractor supply, etc. Craigslist also works but I don't seem to get many hits off of it and have not posted there in several years. 

I've got more cut outs than I can handle now and am turning people down, and for good money too. Nothing less than $300 up to $1500. I will pick up swarms for free, that is nothing but a 100 dollar bill hanging on a branch to me.


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## mrqb (Jul 17, 2011)

G3farms said:


> I would not think the dispatcher at the sheriffs office would be the first place to be called.
> I get more calls from pest control companies than anybody. Make up some business cards and hand them out to every pest control guy you see. Then answer your phone, even when you don't know the number, duh! Hang your business cards in places like co-op, tractor supply, etc. Craigslist also works but I don't seem to get many hits off of it and have not posted there in several years.
> 
> I've got more cut outs than I can handle now and am turning people down, and for good money too. Nothing less than $300 up to $1500. I will pick up swarms for free, that is nothing but a 100 dollar bill hanging on a branch to me.


Just curious, who said anything about being a dispatcher? Glad your business is booming. Bee population in TN. must be way better than it is here. My bad, i thought this post was about catching swarms,not doing cutouts


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## ZooBee (Dec 11, 2020)

mrqb said:


> Just curious, who said anything about being a dispatcher? Glad your business is booming. Bee population in TN. must be way better than it is here. My bad, i thought this post was about catching swarms,not doing cutouts


Lmao off, yep, woman, can't possibly be the chief! Or the sheriff. Boys, take a good hard long look at yourselves for that gaff.
Does your wife share in the bees duties or is being the sheriff enough work?
Sue


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Just by monitoring the forum you can tell - you want to be catching 15-20 swarms, you want to moving to TN/KY.
It seems like the bees in the Appalachian forests a booming.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregV said:


> Just by monitoring the forum you can tell - you want to be catching 15-20 swarms, you want to moving to TN/KY.
> It seems like the bees in the Appalachian forests a booming.


Greg
the weather there is "more bee friendly" up in the north our bees need a little more stores but is doable.
Could be more "cavities" in the Appalachians as well, up here the pines were mostly cut to replace the homes from the Chicago fires. Hardwoods for home stove wood. OR there is a "race" in the Apps that has really got the handle on the area.

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> Greg
> the weather there is "more bee friendly" up in the north our bees need a little more stores but is doable.
> Could be more "cavities" in the Appalachians as well, up here the pines were mostly cut to replace the homes from the Chicago fires. Hardwoods for home stove wood. OR there is a "race" in the Apps that has really got the handle on the area.
> 
> GG


GG, when we drove across the Appalachia region when visiting few national parks few years ago - I got pretty good understanding of why the bees maybe "booming" there.
We drove to the *Clingmans Dome (highest point in TN)* - heck, there were bees all over in the forested ravines (hardly possible to walk there - the terrain is just not passable). I was surprised to be watching the bees next to the Visitor Center on the white clover.

Basically what they have:

very hard mountainous terrain for clear-cut forest removal (unlike here in WI/MI - great for clear cutting in winter, about perfect for logging business - flat and frozen);
they in TN/KY indeed have lots of various forests that are hard to access and easiest just left alone
significantly milder winter than up here (add the mountainous terrain that creates many cozy pockets and great wind protection)
absence of large corn/soy farming operations (which amount to vast green deserts, like in IL) - again, thanks to the terrain
long and hot and humid summers - also great for bees

Am sure there are exceptions, but we criss-crossed TN and KY pretty well in summer and got a pretty good idea.
Contrast that to IL (nothing but corn/soy to the horizon and windy) or southern WI (similar to IL; just a little better and cold) or northern WI (talking serious cold and no old growth forest to speak of) - you can see how the bees would be booming in the Appalachia.


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## Pappadecker (Sep 17, 2015)

I live in a suburban neighborhood with no hives kept anywhere near that I know of. We are surrounded by thick woods and seem to always have bees visiting my garden. Last year I caught 4 swarms in trap boxes set in my yard and so far this year three swarms captured in my swarm traps....two were very large the third was small and is in a 5 frame NUC box now. I bait them with old drawn comb and a little shot of swarm commander. I also put traps out near my small bee yards but seem to have best success in my backyard.


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

I get calls from my ad on craigslist and from pest control companies that I have called and offered to handle their bee swarm calls. Nobody wants to kill bees, not even pest control companies. I also get a few from the city. Their offices are all connected, so if someone calls the police or animal control, or any other department about bees, I get the call.

From my experience, I can make the following observations:

When people see a swarm of bees, their first instinct is not to call the police. That’s maybe about 10% of my calls. Many more people will call a pest controller or browse Craigslist.

Maybe the most common response when people see a swarm is not to call anyone. I get quite a few calls where the swarm has stayed for a day or more and now the people are starting to get concerned. There must be a ton of swarms that move on before anyone does anything about it - even if they did see it. 

If a beehive swarms in the Forrest and nobody is around to see it, did it actually swarm? I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of swarms are never even noticed. My evidence for this is the huge uptick in swarm calls I received after we went into Covid lockdown. I’ve had my Craigslist ads up every season for many years. I usually got one or two calls a year. This year and last year it was closer to 10. Many of them had the same story. They went out on the patio to have their mid-morning coffee/tea when they heard a thundering buzz... Normally, they would have been having their coffee at the office. Why do you think so many swarms happen at the elementary school? Could it be that 500 kids running around noticing everything attracts scouts and their swarming constituents? Most of the swarms I collect have been nestled into a location where if someone hadn’t been in the right place at the right time, it would not have been noticed.

And then there are the traps. I catch more swarms in traps than I get calls. I had 15 traps last year and 22 traps this year. That’s a relative handful of opportunities, spread out over about a five mile radius. I get calls from far and wide, often 30 miles or more, from various cities. I’m obviously getting the word out to a very large number of people. But I catch more swarms in traps than on calls. I got at least 10 last year and about 20 this year in traps. I’m guessIng that nobody ever saw a single one of these trapped swarms.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregV said:


> GG, when we drove across the Appalachia region when visiting few national parks few years ago - I got pretty good understanding of why the bees maybe "booming" there.
> We drove to the *Clingmans Dome (highest point in TN)* - heck, there were bees all over in the forested ravines (hardly possible to walk there - the terrain is just not passable). I was surprised to be watching the bees next to the Visitor Center on the white clover.
> 
> Basically what they have:
> ...


Agree, I hikes part of the Application trail , nice area.
All of the above is true.
maybe a good place for the bees to perk along on being resistant and spread out from there.

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> Agree, I hikes part of the Application trail , nice area.
> All of the above is true.
> maybe a good place for the bees to perk along on being resistant and spread out from there.
> 
> GG


I think so, GG.
Seems like a good place for natural resistance to develop on its own.
Places like Arkansas and others plug into the same general region.

Just look at Litsinger's TF project.
And then me and AR1 - just pathetic. 
LOL


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

mrqb said:


> Just curious, who said anything about being a dispatcher? Glad your business is booming. Bee population in TN. must be way better than it is here. My bad, i thought this post was about catching swarms,not doing cutouts


On the contrair, My Bad. Some of the cut outs I do are swarms that have JUST moved in, might not even have any comb. Again MY BAD, usually when you call the local cops you get a dispatcher of some sort, I ain't from the big city! Most cop stations would just laugh anyway! I get plenty of swarm calls from the rat chokers around here! 

You asked how we got so many swarms, I was just trying to help you out with what I do.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

fadder said:


> Swarming is what bees do, it is a natural act and one that is hard to stop


Yep. I spent a ton of time in my bees this year, but with cold snaps I didn't feel comfortable splitting with brood. I still managed to hold back their numbers by pulling out a few thousand nurse bees here and there, or equalizing frames. I've probably caught 10-12 and only one wasn't mine. It was not from being careless, it was trying to manage what bees do. 

To the OP: I have a friend that does bees for a living. He keeps about 25 traps out and often gets 2-3 from the same trap in a season. He said one thing is looking for a ton of blooms in a fence row, tree line etc., and seeing if the bees are working those plants. If so, he makes a mental (or possibly physical) note on the location. Over time, he has gotten good results. He also said that now that there are around 150 other traps out from neighbors that he gets less bees.


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## Beehizzle (May 26, 2021)

My neighbor had her bird bath and my bees were drinking the water, I smiled. she emptied it out,  no honey for you then.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

Duck River Honey said:


> I like it enough I did a multi-part video series. If anyone takes the time to watch, it will give you a good foundation.


Bro, I'm just up the mtn from you on the other side of Grundy. I saw one of your vids and all I could think about was plummeting to the ground from that height.  Of course, I'm about 60-80lbs heavier and 25 years older than the last time I worked in the sawmill/timber trade. Getting closer to your end makes you less daring. Be super careful out there.

I realize this is anecdotal, but I bought 4 swarm traps from a friend this spring. Two have an entrance 2-3' from the ground, One is laying on a plastic bread rack on the ground, one is beside a nuc on a pallet. The highest one (entrance ~3') is the only one that has only caught a single swarm this year, all the others have 2 each (I think). My bees are just too lazy to fly far. Their little hearts are not in it.

A kid at our church decided to start bees this year. He bought 2 waxed-dipped deeps and 2 mediums. I told him if he was patient I would start some bees for him, if he started on new equipment so I could bring it to my yard. I brought one box home to get started and he said the bees were checking out his other box (near Winchester TN). I told him to put a couple drops of lemongrass oil and put a feeder in the setup. A few days later his wife pulled up to what she described as "a locust swarm". They moved right in his box. So a new beek with no experience sets up a hive in his back yard and has free bees come to him in about 2 weeks.... Ironically, the producer of the waxed boxes used little wax on the plastic foundations and both my bees and his swarm set about cross-combing. But that is another story for another day. 

disclaimer: I know diddly about swarm-trapping. I bought traps mainly to keep from digging my bees from the bushes, which has worked well.


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## Baddest Bees (Dec 18, 2020)

marcos bees said:


> I have 2 swarm traps I am preparing to deploy. I have Swarm Commander and a few good locations. But I am curious why some ppl are super effective at catching swarms. The numbers I see posted are high.
> 
> *What are the 3 main things that contribute to your success in catching swarms?*
> [/QU
> ...


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## gwb (May 17, 2020)

First let me say I’m far from a expert on bee keeping and swarm trapping. I have just caught swarm number 10 this year. Maybe it is just here in southern Illinois but I have better luck hanging swarm traps in catalpa trees. I have noticed most of the feral colonies are in hollow catalpa trees.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

Something I read on here that was a reference to a very old paper mentioned what they like to gather on. I believe the gentleman said he would make a black ball out of something and have some wax melted in or on it. I believe JW or GG or someone elaborated. I had let my field grow up and large clusters of sumac seeds were hanging in the hundreds. While I can’t remember taking a swarm directly from a seed pod, I caught 6-7 within 3’ from the ground and inches from a pod on a sumac bush.

Last Monday one of mine got higher than usual and I “tanged” them into considering the last low pine before being too high to manage. I noticed several landing on pine cones until they finally settled. I think the premise is/was they think settling has already begun when they see a dark ball-shaped object. Someone here probably remembers the paper/article. I’ve been intending to make a ball of cappings or sludge and hang it near an entrance. So far haven’t needed it, but I still have a world of pine cones and seed pods visible.


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## mrqb (Jul 17, 2011)

gwb said:


> First let me say I’m far from a expert on bee keeping and swarm trapping. I have just caught swarm number 10 this year. Maybe it is just here in southern Illinois but I have better luck hanging swarm traps in catalpa trees. I have noticed most of the feral colonies are in hollow catalpa trees.


gwb what county are u in


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

mrqb said:


> Trump helps them, Biden helps them, Kim Flottum taught them , beesource gave them secrets, and there all addicted to bee's. That addiction start's after you watch Chris Farley movies. just so you know. You have to live in the right area, or be terrible at math. Thanks for asking a question i've had for years. i live in a county that is 25 miles wide and 50 miles long. and i am the first person called if there's a report of a swarm. "Ya know bee's scare people". most calls in a year last 10 yrs. is 3. Live on 40 acres of pasture ,timber in heart of Illinois. most swarms captured with bait hives last 12 years that were not from my own hives. 1.....,now for the record, how do i know i'm first called, my wife works at sherriffs dept., not to hijack your thread, but maybe the people claiming these big catches can give us ol' farts, some advice, not just claims


I am terrible at math...doesn't seem to help! N Illinois at least my home town Byron seems very poor this year. I have seen only a handful of bees at all this year, and none of them were the least interested in my traps. Seen far more bumbles and wasps than honeys.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

joebeewhisperer said:


> Something I read on here that was a reference to a very old paper mentioned what they like to gather on. I believe the gentleman said he would make a black ball out of something and have some wax melted in or on it. I believe JW or GG or someone elaborated. I had let my field grow up and large clusters of sumac seeds were hanging in the hundreds. While I can’t remember taking a swarm directly from a seed pod, I caught 6-7 within 3’ from the ground and inches from a pod on a sumac bush.
> 
> Last Monday one of mine got higher than usual and I “tanged” them into considering the last low pine before being too high to manage. I noticed several landing on pine cones until they finally settled. I think the premise is/was they think settling has already begun when they see a dark ball-shaped object. Someone here probably remembers the paper/article. I’ve been intending to make a ball of cappings or sludge and hang it near an entrance. So far haven’t needed it, but I still have a world of pine cones and seed pods visible.


Sound plausible to me.
I saw somewhere also, where the keeper had made up some small crosses, maybe 5' tall with arms 4' wide and hung a burlap sack on it. This was placed maybe 8'-10' in front of a hive and the swarms would land on the burlap sack which made for an easy pick up. Seems like this was over in the UK someplace.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

Gray Goose said:


> Hardwoods for home stove wood. OR there is a "race" in the Apps that has really got the handle on the area.


I think all this is correct. Area has a lot of inviting bee factors. 


GregV said:


> Basically what they have:
> 
> very hard mountainous terrain for clear-cut forest removal (unlike here in WI/MI - great for clear cutting in winter, about perfect for logging business - flat and frozen);
> they in TN/KY indeed have lots of various forests that are hard to access and easiest just left alone
> ...


Well put Greg. It is about ideal in that there's a short mild winter, and almost never a whole month without a couple of flying days, but still enough cold to bring down brooding and such. The surrounding valleys have farms that usually run maybe 300-500 acres so no large mono-culture areas. I noticed this year they planted canola in areas where they grow cotton and corn (not a billion acres of corn like the corn belt). I expect if the canola starts being a major crop it will be a boost to local bees down there. Even in heavily farmed areas, there are usually trees left in the streams and fence rows. I know a few places I might move if I were a bee. 


AR1 said:


> I am terrible at math...doesn't seem to help! N Illinois at least my home town Byron seems very poor this year. I have seen only a handful of bees at all this year, and none of them were the least interested in my traps. Seen far more bumbles and wasps than honeys.


Down here in the woods they have maple, poplar, sourwood, and a ton of blackberries (when they don't freeze in spring) and a ton of goldenrod (weather independent). So once they get cranked up there's maybe 3 mini-dearths for a couple of weeks each. Rarely do all these plants "hit" in the same year, but usually 1-2 will be pretty significant, if not for a honey crop at least to get them weighted for winter. I think the swarmy varieties in trees probably do better. I haven't caught diddly except my own bees and my brother's. But I haven't really had time to set traps. Honestly didn't even know trapping was a thing until last year. Hope you guys catch some bees!


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## gwb (May 17, 2020)

mrqb I’m in southern white county


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## 123989 (Jul 30, 2018)

As far as swarm traps go I caught several out in the middle of nowhere. There were no other keepers in a 6 or 7 mile radius. I usually try to put mine on a tree line or a power line right of way or even along a roadway.


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## sparkyApis (Apr 9, 2021)

G3farms said:


> I saw somewhere also, where the keeper had made up some small crosses, maybe 5' tall with arms 4' wide and hung a burlap sack on it. This was placed maybe 8'-10' in front of a hive and the swarms would land on the burlap sack which made for an easy pick up.


Something like this?
Russian scion


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