# Automated Bottling Line



## blueskybeesupply (Dec 11, 2007)

Swienty is probably a good bet.

I'd think you'd be looking at min. of $80,000 CAD for a perfectly integrated line. Obviously the faster and more versatile you need the line to be, the more you will spend.

If you are handy, you may be able to piece together a container feed line, filler, capping and labeling stations for less from different suppliers/used equipment.

Tooling for your specific closures and containers is where you will have to spend money and time in changeovers.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The ability to fill different size jars with a piston filler will be determinedby the size of pistons available. On some machines they are removable.

The first question you must answer is how many jars an hour are you looking to fill, and will that increase in the near future.

Often a separate filler, capper and labeller are linked together, with one feeding the next, all of different brands.

Crazy Roland


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Alright, thanks for the info... I'll do some calling around and see what I come up with


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

You should look up Coopers Honey in Peculiar Mo and call Ryan Cooper. I seen his automated bottling line. I was very impressive when I see it.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Are you looking at glass or plastic bottles? How many an hour?

Crazy Roland


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Glass mainly but the ability to do plastic wouldn't be a bad thing... 1000 would be good but the ability to do more in less time could be useful.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Generally, the more flexible a machine is, the slower it is. High speed machines typically take a longer time to switch over to a different size. Try to use all the same size cap, one less thing to change. A good filler for glass may not work well on plastic. Some fillers use a geneva wheel that starts and stops the bottle motion. Plastic does not like that. Choose your containers and filling/capping/labeling machines with the other in mind.

Crazy Roland


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How much honey do you sell?


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

hello markt, I am expanding my packing side of the business? I am looking into bottlers etc. I can not justify an auto system at this time. I am curious if you are using a manual filler ( along the lines of Dadant and Mannlake fillers) if so may I ask what type and what your experience has been with it? Also may I ask at what volume you figure that a automatic system is worth while. Thanks very much GB


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## beebreeder (Nov 24, 2009)

As a fellow beekeeper said to me," if each jar is a few ounces over, start to multiply that up and the amount of moneys worth of honey you are giving away against exactly the correct amount every jar) the machine would soon pay for itself" That said I have still not bought one, next season perhaps


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

One that will fill 1,000 jars an hour?


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## beebreeder (Nov 24, 2009)

Not many beekeepers in the uk need that sort of capacity, our biggest beefarmer runs around 2000 colonies


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

I am in complete agreement regarding the savings bye only putting in the desired amount. I am doing enough volume now that the savings will add up rapidly. I am mainly Wondering how much volume a person would have to do to make an automated line worth while ?






beebreeder said:


> As a fellow beekeeper said to me," if each jar is a few ounces over, start to multiply that up and the amount of moneys worth of honey you are giving away against exactly the correct amount every jar) the machine would soon pay for itself" That said I have still not bought one, next season perhaps


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I think a big variable has to be the initial cost of the equipment; It is so specialized that it is bound to be incredibly expensive if bought new; There are bargains to be had with older machines, but then the maintenance becomes more tricky. Some people have the talent to keep things going.
I have been racking my brains trying to remember the brand names of the packaging lines that we ran when I was a production supervisor in an adhesives and sealant manufacturing plant, but I am coming up empty. What I do remember is that much of the equipment was german, accurate to within a gram or so, and very reliable. As well as being used in adhesive and sealants it was used in candy manufacturing.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

G B said:


> I am in complete agreement regarding the savings bye only putting in the desired amount. I am doing enough volume now that the savings will add up rapidly. I am mainly Wondering how much volume a person would have to do to make an automated line worth while ?


Okay since I didn't get an answer from the OPer I will ask you. How much honey r u packing each year? I have packed and sold 30,000 lbs of honey annually using two Maxant 300 lb bottling tanks. I know operations that bottle a lot more than I do who don't have packing lines.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

hello mark! I would anticipate packing 50-75 drums in the next year. I have been using a 2 inch Syracuse valve and it's fast but I have a hard time getting enough in the jar with out going over to much. I am now using a regular ball valve , it's slower but I seem to be more precise with it.Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome..GB


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Im hoping to be packing a bit more than that soon and am looking at using a dadant filler.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Gee, now I feel so small.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Gee, now I feel so small.


If it makes you feel any better.....I'm much smaller.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Mark, how fast do you fill 30,000 pounds by yourself? What sizes do you pack? Do you set yourself production goals? When I worked in the factory there were skilled operatives who were on a production bonus system on the non-automated lines.
On the non-automated lines it was a thing of beauty to see an operative filling a can of adhesive. The can would be filling at a rate such that he or she would label an empty can, and screw a cap on the previously filled can as the current can was filling. When the valve was closed there would be a "tail" of adhesive stringing from the valve; This was cut off by the operative on the next can's lip so no mess went on the can and the drip went into the new can before the valve was opened . Poetry in motion.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That's a years sales. It takes me all year to fill, cap, and label 24,000lbs of honey as customers need it. 8oz jars, 12oz bears, 1lb jars, 1lb No Drip containers, 2lb jars, 5 lb jars, and 5 gallon totes.

And you?


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Mark, I can make you feel very big by comparison  I have bottled and sold 554 pounds so far this season with a 5 gallon bottling pail and a drippy valve. I fill 1 pound and 2 pound plastic bottles and 5 pound pour jugs, the latter are my best sellers. I have 800 pounds left from this years crop. All my filled bottle sales happen at my workplace. In previous years I have sold honey in 5 gallon buckets to a local packer for about 2$ a pound. I did this because I didn't want to deal with crystallization. I would rather sell at bottled prices for as long as my demand lasts. This year I ran fewer for production (11 instead of 19) because much as I like my honey packer I didn't want to work so much for him.
This weekend (with Jake's generous advice and fantastic customer service) I finished refurbishing one of two 42 gallon maxant honey bottlers I bought on craigslist. This will allow me to sell filled stock later in the year. When I get the second one done I could just pour all my stock into both of them! Actually, I will have one more bottling tank than I need. I don't see myself expanding much with regard to honey sales as I understand it to sell into stores I would need a food grade kitchen etc. 
There is a thread running in this section about what it takes to be a commercial beekeeper. There is so much to it. I feel I could do filling and production quite well; There is a mindless zen place where a person can get lost in the flow of bottling and enjoy it. However, I don't think I have the gift of sales that it takes to develop a market. I appreciate what you bring to Beesource - I was looking through an old thread this weekend on something or other and you were the only poster I recognized as still being active.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Get a simple noticeable label and it will sell itself. Just don't expect it to fly off the shelf right away. It takes time to establish clients.

Thanks for the compliment.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Last fall we bought a Swienty Filling Station 70.
It is similar to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbpQoSEq53E&feature=related

It is supposed to be capable of filling 477 one Lb jars per hour.
It is a really nice machine with a lot of cool features, but a couple of groaners as well.
For one, when you plug in the contoller it powers up but there is no power switch to turn it off!!!!!!?????
So, I purchaced a 22mm selector switch that matches the power switch on the table controller box, knocked out a hole and now have a power switch.
Then, when the pump controller is on and you turn the power on to the table, it immediatly starts rotating looking for a bottle. There is no, (was no) start / stop switch. Very clunky and inconvienient.
Luckily, upon opening the table control box, I find that the controller is a Siemans LOGO PLC. And I notice that there are 5 unused inputs and one unused outputs.
HURRRAAAYYYYY!!!!!!!!
Being one that speaks 5 automation languages, Ladder Logic, Medoc, Entivity think and do, GE State logic and Opto 22, I JUST COULD NOT WAIT to send off for the Siemans LOGO software and cable for my laptop!! total cost: $173.00
Well to my surprise once again the "LOGO SOFT COMFORT" program is really awesome in spite of it's very affordable price. (Enitiviy is around 4 grand!)
So I am really excited for the cold cold winter to get under way and dial our bottling line in to perfection.
Let it snow let it snow, let it snowwwwwwwwww......


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## Great Bees (Aug 19, 2013)

Bottle I like jars and want to say it is good to bee back in the forum, bees keeping me busy


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Here is the Swienty Model 70 Filling Station:
http://www.swienty.com/brugerdir/webshop/files/00000175.pdf

About $4500.00 with shipping from Germany.
Brushy Mtn is a U.S. rep for them.

Be aware that the "70" refers to the size of the table. the one in the video is a 120.
Does not cost that much more except the shipping almost doubles!!!!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have an old Simplex single piston filler that still works great. It can do between 6 and 700 units per hour and by switching between any of 3 pistons can be set up for fills from 4 ozs. up to 2 1/2 lbs.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Harry, I suppose that post would also fit under your "Eaaassssy money" thread. Machines are often limited by the space they are put in. When in production every inch of unnecessary movement by a worker results in unwarranted fatigue and lower efficiency. The young man in the video is working too hard. The labeller is too far from the feed; When he lids the jars he should lift them straight into a box that is on a conveyor directed at a pallet - this means one less handling. The batch label gun should be kept by the conveyor. In the vid he is taking the filled jars and moving them back towards the labeller in a separate motion. Then he is reaching over the clean jars to fill, seal, and lift the box. He will break jars or drop bits into them. The machine is working well, but the production set up could be made much easier IMHO.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

SQKCRK - the Matra is "Quality over Quantity", repeat ad noseum(sp?), untill the ego recovers.

Mr. Lyon - does that simplex have a dog clutch? I have heard that name before.

Hmmmm... I must be doing something wrong, I am dreaming of a quad piston Elgin, Resina Capper, and Labelaire labeller. Oh well, you know those crazy dreamers....

Crazy Roland


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Roland said:


> Mr. Lyon - does that simplex have a dog clutch? I have heard that name before.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Perhaps, I am not familiar with the term. It does have a variable speed clutch. Its a bit older version of this: 
http://www.simplexfiller.com/machinery/products/AS1.html


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Last fall we bought a Swienty Filling Station 70.
> It is similar to this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbpQoSEq53E&feature=related


Almost seems like a two person job from the video or you get no bathroom breaks.
Pretty slick and my setup will not be so sophisticated. I lack the turn table.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks Harry! I have been looking at a filler that Dadant sells with out the table for about 3,000. I wasn't aware of that type of compact filler table set up.
Thanks GB



HarryVanderpool said:


> Here is the Swienty Model 70 Filling Station:
> http://www.swienty.com/brugerdir/webshop/files/00000175.pdf
> 
> About $4500.00 with shipping from Germany.
> ...


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

We use a Sweinty apimatic 2000 filler. About 500#/hour. No drips. Work s well with cold/partially granulated honey. Ideal for creamed honey. Very dependable. we have filled over 1MM # with this machine over the years. Very good customer service from Denmark. Its like everything else, you get the what you pay for. 

Nick


G B said:


> Thanks Harry! I have been looking at a filler that Dadant sells with out the table for about 3,000. I wasn't aware of that type of compact filler table set up.
> Thanks GB


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Does the instruction manuals for Sweinty come in English or do we have to learn German to understand how to use the equipment? I looked on Brushy Mtn but didnt see anything on their website about Sweinty.


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

The manuals do come in English.You need to go to they webpage . Click the English tab(unless you want it in French or german ) I do not think there is a distributer in the US. Betterbee used to sell these years ago. They have a lot of nice honeyhouse gear that most of us cannot afford.
Nick


BMAC said:


> Does the instruction manuals for Sweinty come in English or do we have to learn German to understand how to use the equipment? I looked on Brushy Mtn but didnt see anything on their website about Sweinty.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

BMAC said:


> I looked on Brushy Mtn but didnt see anything on their website about Sweinty.


Thats right; you don't. Also, If you go to the Sweinty website you see nothing about Brushy Mtn.

BUT, if you contact Sweinty for purchace they tell you to call Brushy!
Weird; huh?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So much for good marketing. So the system looks like what Cooper uses in KC area from what I remember. Looks like its a nice system though. I remember Ryan telling me he spent ALOT of money on the system he has in place. If memory serves well up over 70K but it had several conveyors on the way to the carousel with an automatic labeler in the middle somewhere.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Mr. Lyon, yup, that's what i thought. I worked with your filler's grandfather many moons ago. Best unit for thick candied honey. Motor ran continuously, the foot petal tripped a dog clutch, just like on a punch press, as about as smooth. But it was rugged.

Crazy Roland


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

G B said:


> I am in complete agreement regarding the savings bye only putting in the desired amount. I am doing enough volume now that the savings will add up rapidly. I am mainly Wondering how much volume a person would have to do to make an automated line worth while ?


This is the kind of question I deal with for clients on a fairly regular basis, so I tend to be a bit persnickety about such things, and my wife hates it. On the bee side of things, we are small chump change, but I still did some checking, because it's what I do for a living, cant help but analyze our hobby stuff. I weighed a case of jars, to get a rough average of the weight of jars. Then I weighed the first 4 cases she filled. And I got really detailed, I weighed each jar individually. End result. The average was an 8% overfill, with no jars underfilled. Of the 48 I weighed, only one was exactly a pound of honey. Variation between bottles, was significant.

From there, the math is really simple. In our case, with only a couple hundred pounds of surplus honey, and we are not relying on that for income, it's not a big deal. But, 8% overfill says, after she bottles 200 pounds that way, she will be short 16 bottles from what was possible, and 15 if an automated system allows for a half percent of variation. She sells at a net of 7 dollars a bottle (8 dollar price, costs a buck for the bottle, lid, and label), so more accurate filling will increase her yield by 15 bottles, if the fill was targetted for a half percent overfill instead of 8%. 15x7 = 105, so revenue would increase by that amount. Easy math extrapolating that forward. From 200 pounds bottled, revenue increase of a hundred bucks, that's 50 cents a pound. We would have to bottle 7000 pounds of honey, to break even on the $3500 expense listed in some of the lower end fillers listed in this thread. Of course, the numbers wont be so dramatic on a larger scale, but, based on years of working with various automation system designs, I would give a rough estimate that replacing an experienced hand fill station, with an automated filler, one would expect a 2% improvement in yield, on slippage alone, without factoring in any changes in labour cost. The number would be significantly larger if you are replacing an inexperienced hand fill.

It's really not hard to do the math on this one, and, if you are even asking the question, I would suggest you take a couple hours, and just do it. Grab 500 or so bottles from your current production, and weigh them all, accurately, keeping a tally. When you have the results, calculate the mean and standard deviation of those numbers, as well as the number that are underfilled. If your numbers are anything like what I found on our small sample, you will probably be surprised at how much difference it makes.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks for the info , between myself and family members I figured I was losing between 350/400 per drum .I am sure I am going to get a machine and this thread is giving me some good options for machines to consider. Regards George B





grozzie2 said:


> This is the kind of question I deal with for clients on a fairly regular basis, so I tend to be a bit persnickety about such things, and my wife hates it. On the bee side of things, we are small chump change, but I still did some checking, because it's what I do for a living, cant help but analyze our hobby stuff. I weighed a case of jars, to get a rough average of the weight of jars. Then I weighed the first 4 cases she filled. And I got really detailed, I weighed each jar individually. End result. The average was an 8% overfill, with no jars underfilled. Of the 48 I weighed, only one was exactly a pound of honey. Variation between bottles, was significant.
> 
> From there, the math is really simple. In our case, with only a couple hundred pounds of surplus honey, and we are not relying on that for income, it's not a big deal. But, 8% overfill says, after she bottles 200 pounds that way, she will be short 16 bottles from what was possible, and 15 if an automated system allows for a half percent of variation. She sells at a net of 7 dollars a bottle (8 dollar price, costs a buck for the bottle, lid, and label), so more accurate filling will increase her yield by 15 bottles, if the fill was targetted for a half percent overfill instead of 8%. 15x7 = 105, so revenue would increase by that amount. Easy math extrapolating that forward. From 200 pounds bottled, revenue increase of a hundred bucks, that's 50 cents a pound. We would have to bottle 7000 pounds of honey, to break even on the $3500 expense listed in some of the lower end fillers listed in this thread. Of course, the numbers wont be so dramatic on a larger scale, but, based on years of working with various automation system designs, I would give a rough estimate that replacing an experienced hand fill station, with an automated filler, one would expect a 2% improvement in yield, on slippage alone, without factoring in any changes in labour cost. The number would be significantly larger if you are replacing an inexperienced hand fill.
> 
> It's really not hard to do the math on this one, and, if you are even asking the question, I would suggest you take a couple hours, and just do it. Grab 500 or so bottles from your current production, and weigh them all, accurately, keeping a tally. When you have the results, calculate the mean and standard deviation of those numbers, as well as the number that are underfilled. If your numbers are anything like what I found on our small sample, you will probably be surprised at how much difference it makes.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Sorry for disappearing been wrapping bees and getting stuff all put away like mad, currently I don't jar much at all... As in not much more than a barrel or two's worth but I'd been asked about providing large quantities of jarred honey and was just exploring related costs. I think the way I might go is the full Sweinty line. Propolis inc out of Canada is selling them and they start at just under 30 thousand Euros. (I suppose exchange rate would be a big deal)
Here's there link if anyone's interested http://www.propolis-etc.ca/Propolis-etc_2013.pdf Page 39 is the Automated line


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