# Vorroa Mite Attractant



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Ian:

Yes and yes.

E-mail me, as the PM facility does not appear to work 
with the beta 3.x version of firefox.

Funny though, most people would rather not attract varroa.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Jim......... Can you share the info with all?? Sounds interesting.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Can you share the info with all?? 

Can I? You tell me.

I can't even PM you either, so you'll have to e-mail me.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Funny though, most people would rather not attract varroa

If you can attract them, why cant you catch them?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If you can attract them, why cant you catch them?

There is a pheromone that the brood produce just before they are capped that triggers both the Varroa to enter the cells and the nurse bees to cap the cells. Unfortunately attempts to use this pheromone to trap mites has not worked. The mites are also triggered by other things about a brood cell. Drones make more of it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Unfortunately attempts to use this pheromone to trap mites has not worked

Could you elaberate on their trials and down falls?

Thanks man,


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't know all of the details. We had a discussion with Dr. Marion Ellis last Saturday. He was working on some research in France on this subject. But the bottom line was that they isolated the pheromone that triggers the mite to move into the brood cell, but didn't have any luck using it in a trap. Apparently there are other clues that the mite is also using to know when and where to go to get into a cell.


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## CSbees (Aug 7, 2007)

Down falls- ironic


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## Matt Guyrd (Nov 28, 2007)

Jim Fischer said:


> > Can you share the info with all??
> 
> Can I? You tell me.
> 
> I can't even PM you either, so you'll have to e-mail me.


Jim...is it me, or do many of your posts have an air of secrecy and/or contention to them? Not trying to rile the bees here, but for someone relatively new to the forum, I have come across more than one of your posts that makes me wonder why you bother posting if you are not willing to share your information...after-all, this is a forum of knowledge and opinion sharing.

Certainly is your perogative to post as much or as little as you see fit. Just seems odd to me that another beek is interested in your knowledge and you choose to PM instead of sharing to all that would be interested.

No offense intended...just curious to your approach.

Matt


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You havnt read much of Jims posts, should do a search and the reading would keep you glued for days,

If your interested , e-mail him.

its probably because it might tie into business dealings. Would you do business over an internet fourm?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Apparently there are other clues that the mite is also using to know when and where to go to get into a cell.


There is talk that it isnt the brood phermone that attracts the mite at all, what it is I dont know. But I know it has been issolated, I think?

What kind of trap were they using Michael? Do you know of the other clues the mite responds to?

>>Dr. Marion Ellis last Saturday. He was working on some research in France on this subje

does he have any information that I could be linked to, perhaps an e-mail?

Thanks


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

Here's a short paper (not sure how old) that shows that varroa mites have a very strong affinity for brood food. Maybe it's not the food itself, but the pheromones it absorbs from the larvae. I would guess the drone larvae make more of it just based on size alone which make it more attractive to mites. Maybe small cell bees make less of it or produce it for a shorter period of time causing more mites to miss their window of opportunity.

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/slovenia/en/nazzi.pdf


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks Steve!


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Ian said:


> You havnt read much of Jims posts, should do a search and the reading would keep you glued for days,


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>There is talk that it isnt the brood phermone that attracts the mite at all, what it is I dont know. But I know it has been issolated, I think?

It's not the standard brood pheromone that causes the bees to feed the brood etc., it's a trigger pheromone that triggers them to cap it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Is it the brood that sends off the pheromone?

Do you have any information or idea of what kind of a trap they were using? What were their down falls, sucesses, treatment periods?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

http://www.honeycouncil.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4926


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Ian, you might contact Stephen Pernal at your Beaverlodge research facility. Some years back, I stopped in at the SFU bee class in Burnaby on my way back east. Steve gave a presentation on this topic. (I see his name listed in the link you gave.) In looking back at my the handout, oil of clove and oil of cinnamon were among a couple of attractants. Oil of citronella, oil of marjorim are listed as a couple of repellents listed. 

(And, of course, there are also those long, long chemical names made up of letters, dashes, numbers, more letters, more numbers, etc.)


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Hey Dick, shot him an e-mail, 

What was your overall impression from the presentation given by Stephen Pernal in regards to mite trapping?
Did you feel there was some potential, do you recall anything that presented itself as obsticles?

I also listened to a presentation on this topic, probably about the same experiments, but given by my guys here in Manitoba, and the general impression they left me was success in being able to attract mites, but failure becasue of the impractablity, cost and time required in making the experiment work.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

It was in late February 2001 when I was at the SFU class. He did point out that it was preliminary research, but I was still pretty excited when he did his presentation, thinking there would be a mite trap coming out shortly. Yet, seven years later we're still not there.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> Especially the peeing contests.



Now that really is unnecessarily provocative. If you really want pistols at dawn, it would be better to issue the challenge offlist!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Dear Mr. Steppler, 

....I believe the work you are referring to is a project that I was involved in while a postdoctoral fellow in ------- lab at Simon Fraser University. This work was not done by CHC, though it there may have been a modest contribution from the Canadian Bee Research Fund. 

The nature of the project was to isolate chemical attractants that were the basis of enticing varroa mites into cells, just prior to cells being capped. Though we did isolate a number of attractant mixtures, we had difficulty reliably isolating individual compounds that could reproducibly elicit mites to enter artificial cells. We did isolate compounds that serve as repellents to varooa. 

In terms of a trap, we spent less time on this end of the project than trying to isolate the actual attractants or repellents. Most variants I tried were based on a frame, with some sort of artificial cell matrix, with a sticky midrib. The attractants were placed on the midrib of the frame. 

So, I am afraid I can't recommend a particular attractant as I have not experimentally seen compounds that are reliable enough to use, either isolated by myself or others. As to traps, I would recommend using something that once mites either enter (or are groomed off) that they cannot reinfest bees. No doubt you have thought of this. If you are successful at finding an attractant, I would be very interest to know.....


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Mark Winston's report on his attempts at a "varroa trap":
http://www.honeycouncil.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4926

Did make clear one thing - it debunked the massively uninformed assumptions repeated in this thread that any of:


brood pheromones (or components thereof)
pheromones claimed to be associated with "capping"
pheromones from the brood food
have anything to do with the problem at hand.

Yes, several chemicals have seemed to "attract varroa",
but the reaction of the varroa is simply not reliable enough to
make these chemicals useful in a "trap".

A key point that Winston made is that it is the nurse bees that
attract the varroa, not the brood itself.

I'd explain further, but I'd likely just get an argument for my 
trouble.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Well Jim, I for one would like to hear your explination.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Is it the brood that sends off the pheromone?

According to Dr. Ellis, yes.

>Do you have any information or idea of what kind of a trap they were using? What were their down falls, sucesses, treatment periods?

Just the same general info I shared. That's all we got.

>Did make clear one thing - it debunked the massively uninformed assumptions repeated in this thread that any of:
> * pheromones claimed to be associated with "capping"

I personally don't know anything about it first hand and I certainly don't know who is correct and have no assumptions of my own. But it's interesting, as the research I was talking about is a decade more recent than Mark Winston's (ongoing as we speak) and is currently being done by very respected scientists in France. But of course that was merely hearsay from Dr. Marion Ellis less than two weeks ago. And they had isolated the trigger pheromones...

>I'd explain further, but I'd likely just get an argument for my
trouble.

If avoiding arguments is your intent, then I would suggest you avoid saying things like "massively uninformed assumptions" when referring to other's recent discussions with respected scientists...


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

In Mark Winston’s own words from his series of ‘Bee Culture’ articles collected together in his book ‘From Where I Sit’:

“We already know the mites are attracted to a number of identified compounds that honey bee larvae release just before capping.”

“......these compounds would be ideal attractants in a monitoring or control program.”


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## Moeuk (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey Michael Bush,

You mentioned that the Varroa mite will enter the cell just before capping.

As I understand things, is that the Varroa mite (female) will enter the cell of larvae of about five days old as long as there is brood food at the bottom of the cell. The cell is not capped untill day 9.

Sorry its a bit late in reply to your first notations but I have been away on a microscopy course.

If there is any recent information Michael, please let me know.

Thanks 
Moe.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If there is any recent information Michael, please let me know.

I shared as much as I know.


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## stairay (May 8, 2008)

*varroa bait?*

Is the pheremone methyl palmitate as mentioned in The natural Beekeeper?


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

I'd explain further, but I'd likely just get an argument for my
trouble.
-------------------------------------------


dangle the carrot Jim 
I would like to hear more too.

Regards Tony


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## mobees (Jul 26, 2004)

*Pheromones*

The problem with some Pheromone triggers in Honey bees is that they are mixtures
and triggers can be differences in ratios of one or many to a another. It can be very
complicated how tasks are triggered.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I am thinking, we would already have a product on the market place if a successful attractant had been found.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

*lure*



Ian said:


> I am thinking, we would already have a product on the market place if a successful attractant had been found.


and they would have a customer here!


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