# Passing the Torch: Who Will Carry On Your Business?



## hvacrich0 (Aug 25, 2014)

I understand how you feel. I sold my HVAC/R business because my two sons had no interest in taking it over. Iv started with bees now after years of putting it off. I started with the local bee club and got lots of help and information till I started moving toward commercial. Everyone wants to help the hobbyist and to preserve the honey bee but try to move into commercial beekeeping and you are treated like you have the plague or something. Other commercial beekeepers don't want the competition and the local bee club won't even answer your questions or look at what you're trying to do. I offered free help at any time or any place to two different commercial beeks just to learn the business and was turned down very bluntly. I would have loved to work with someone who knows the ropes and was getting ready to retire. So the way I see it, either you're a hobbyist with bees or you're a threat to someone whos making their living with bees. That makes it hard for someone new to get started. Iv made a lot of mistakes that I shouldn't have and will make more but I will be successful with my bees.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

As a beginning point in this discussion, I offer this:
As beekeepers, we need to do a much better job of having someone (other than ourselves) that know the location of our hives.
In the time that I have been a beekeeper, I remember 3 beekeepers that died and NOBODY knew where all of the hives were hidden.
Even to this day, we occasionally get a call from someone that for example purchased a piece of land and wanted to know who owns the hives.
Well guess what? That beekeeper died 18 year ago!
I'm very sure that his family could have used the money from the sale of that equipment.
And what about contracts?
A very good friend of mine had a serious accident that had him in ICU for a couple of months.
When his buddies stepped in to keep his business running they had a very hard time piecing together where, who, when, of his contracts.
So this is a very good discussion to have but it begins with someone trustworthy, with ongoing details of our assets and business details.
The first task in this discussion is planning.
And some of it evolves an estate lawyer.


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## hvacrich0 (Aug 25, 2014)

I agree with you about sharing info on our bees. Iv been using Hive Tracks for my record keeping and it has GPS locations and very detailed info on each hive, location, queen, treatments and anything you chose to inter. Its like anything else its up to the individual to keep good records.


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## Heintz88 (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever sence I started working bees commercially I always wished my father was a commercial beek.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm a third generation beekeeper and am fortunate that my oldest son has been a partner and an integral part of the business for years and will be taking over before too many more years. No young beekeepers? Seems like the older I get the more young beekeepers there are. . Pretty sure there will always be a blend of beekeepers of all ages as long as there continues to be money made in this business.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

I like so many have recently went commercial, not to the point of migratory pollination, but instead supply of bees. I've young children at this point, and can only hope that i'll be able to get at least one of them involved in the business to take it over when i'm done. However, if none of them want to take that road in life, the only thing for me, and many others is to either find someone that wants to purchase it, or dissolve it little at a time. 

I believe that it's everyone's dream when they begin a business to at some point pass it on to our own next generation, sometimes it works that way, sometimes it doesn't. We as business owners can only lay the foundation work in place, and be prepared to do what it takes when the time comes. I really think that's the most important part of a business. JMO


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I wrote a song about it. It's on beesource somewhere. Not that it's a solution.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm a second generation honey producer and have 8 kids. I might have half that might be interest in the business. My youngest boy (age 8) works with me and his PAPA the most. Just wish this one could lift honey super already. Two of my other boys are good just running the honey house. My youngest daughter wants to take over her mom's store already, she like to run the cash register. ( don't we all). 

GOOD QUESTION:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I'm a first generation beekeeper, and it will likely end there. My daughters don't want to take over my apiary. I'm 65, and nearing the end of my career. I'd like to stay in it as long as I can, as I don't really know what else I'd do and there's nothing else I want to do. Presently, my biggest problem is finding qualified help. I can find laborers. I can't find knowledgable beekeepers, and believe me when I say, I've been looking. 

I started with 2 packages 41 years ago, and build to 900+. I've made the 50 ton crops. I've pollinated apples with 600 for many years. I've raised queens for beekeepers and universities. I sell nucleus colonies that people tell me are among the best available. But, right now I'm at a crossroads. I can't find the help I need and I can't do all the work by myself or with laborers. I need a good brood man. 

In the last years of my career, I want to focus on my breeding program. It's my passion. But, I can't do that and run all the production colonies, too. 
So my job this winter is to find that person...or a young couple who know enough to manage seven hundred production colonies and want to learn the business. Work for pay, work for shares, or work for both. I have 20 production yards in New York state that will be the first to go if I can't find the help I need. Not that I really want to sell them, but I won't run my bees poorly, and my bees are my only retirement funding. I'd rather slim down the operation, and run my breeding program in Vermont with 200-300 colonies. The Champlain valley where I keep bees is one of the last good production areas in the Northeast.

Adam, your question has struck a nerve with me, and passing the torch is a real issue. Thanks for asking.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael, do you speak Spanish or Russian? A couple of guys I know have Mexicans or Mexican Americans who work for them. And another guy who has Russians, unless they are Ukrainians. Have you considered looking to that source?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> I wrote a song about it. It's on beesource somewhere. Not that it's a solution.


Mark, you should post the words to the song here.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nah, someone else will have to find them and do that. It's kinda hokey anyways.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> It's kinda hokey anyways.


Well maybe, but beekeepers are kinda hokey anyways..............


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> Do you worry about stuff like this?


This is an issue that will also putting myself .
One aspect that makes sense also to think, at least in my country, is to program the output of beekeeping with time. Here it seems to me very difficult to sell 800-1000 hives quickly.

"As beekeepers, we need to do a much better job of having someone (other than ourselves) that know the location of our hives."
When riding a new apiary , I try my wife always know is location. This is something that can be forgotten in the midst of so much work , but it can pay dearly.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

snl said:


> Well maybe, but beekeepers are kinda hokey anyways..............


If you want to spend time looking for it. "Who will tend to my bees when I'm gone?" That's the first line and title and could be the Thread title too, I forget.


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

Access to credit in Apiculture is difficult at best. Bankers require collateral and bees and related equipment do not interest bankers. Unless an interest buyer has access to credit from other means, the chances of someone buying an existing honey farm with credit is limited.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I am 63 and wondering why I am building new equipment with glue and screws.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I am not a commercial beek and can't be one located where I am now, too late in life and the drought owns Texas I would LOVE to move northeast and work with Michael Palmer. None of my children have any interest in bees but I do have an apprentice right now that could handle the hives I have if I dropped dead...


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

odfrank said:


> I am 63 and wondering why I am building new equipment with glue and screws.


:lpf:

58 and wondering the same thing :scratch:
happy thanksgiving od.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yer gonna have loose screws soon enuf, dontcha think?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> If you want to spend time looking for it. "Who will tend to my bees when I'm gone?" That's the first line and title and could be the Thread title too, I forget.


here it is sqkcrk
Before My Days Are Over


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

aren't we just depressing on Thanksgiving day. But it is a real concern. I'm 55, and only 3.5 years into the hobby. Hobby it will likely stay, I feel like I am too old to do more with it. When I joined my local bee club I was not quite the youngest person in the room. The youngest was my mentor, the older keeps wouldn't talk to me. Now the club is about 8 times the size it was and the average age is probably close to 50, lots of 30 somethings. If this phenomenon is going on elsewhere, that's where I'd look to hire a beekeeper to continue things


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

clyderoad said:


> here it is sqkcrk
> Before My Days Are Over


Thanks clyde. 

I tried to find it myself and couldn't.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

No, not depressing. Just reality and 41 years of fantastic and where does on go from there? Ya gotta think about it.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Mike, I hope it can go in a book.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It might be in a book if he ever finishes it.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Well guys 71 years old soon and just getting started, yup using glue and screws. Never stopped long enough in one place to keep bees until 4 years ago. But something is going wrong because I cant seem to stop growing my apiaries. Gave away complete hives last year, sold more than 40 nucs made a fair crop of honey and still grew the amount of colonies this year, don't buy green bananas anymore and don't know what will happen to my hives when I kick the bucket, but guess I wont care cause I enjoyed the ride anyhow.
Johno


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I think it helps to be a stubborn German. It is what we do.

I am in business with my son, a 6th gen. commercial beekeeper. Looking back, things could have gone much differently in the past. My Grandfather got hit hard by the depression(he was also a packer), and fell back on the bees to pull himself out of trouble. If we had been smart, we would have saved alot of money by folding after CCD. Instead we chose to find our solution, and hope for good weather.

It is interesting that Christian(son) is aware that he is keeping the tradition alive for his children, of which there are none, and that there is not much sense working your butt off to leave your legacy to someone that does not exist. I have faith he will find me a wife and a grandson. After all, someone has to go to Hamilton and call them "neophytes".(All in good humor, Gabe)

Roland Diehnelt
linden Apiary, est. 1852


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## Verick369 (Jan 11, 2013)

I am 24 and one day my dream is to become a commercial beekeeper. This year I started with 4 hives from last year. I purchased an additional 20 packages this year, and split up to 60 hives. I sold some, and am now back down to 35. Varroa hit me hard in my inexperience. Old beekeepers own the market. Pollination is dominated by a select few beekeepers locally who import bees from other beekeepers when they don't have the hives they need. Another beekeeper roughly 100 miles away owns the honey niche in every farmers market around. 

I have knocked on every door I can find, and have two locations that allow me to keep my bees there. There is no pollination money, and I feel absolutely lucky to have found locations that will allow me to keep bees. I am in California. We are in the middle of an extreme drought. I fed each of my hives around $80+ in syrup each this year, plus all those other startup and other normal costs. I made 40 lbs of honey total. Over the past two years I think I have lost a total of $12k, and have kept costs as low as I can with cheap old equipment. There is a lot of equipment I go without, such as a flat bed, syrup pump, and honey extractor. Hopefully almonds in a few months will really help. 

Despite all this I feel I am lucky. I have gotten to work with several of the local commercial beekeepers, so I am more experience than most, and I have absolutely lucked out by getting locations. For a long time I was sitting on 50 hives and fearing what I would have to do with my next split, assuming I could even afford the queens. If other new beekeepers experience the same as me I can imagine why fellow young people don't want to get into this. The only people under the age of 50 I have met with any interest and success are generational beekeepers. I feel like it is my job to kind of suffer and quietly grow while the old guys die off so we new guys can scramble to get their locations, equipment, and other scraps.

I honestly wish I knew you mentors were looking before I had too much stuff to move. Especially Mr. Palmer. If he is the same guy with the youtube channel who raises queens it is a real honor to speak to you. Your videos inspired me to pick up some equipment and try my hand at queen rearing in attempt to keep my little business profitable. I am a major fan and really appreciate all you have taught me.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

This thread is totally true. Beekeeping is work and kids dont want to work. My son was not happy with me tonight when he requested more honey to sell to his friends and teachers at college. I was fine with it but, he needed to pay me for the bottled honey he was going to sell. He then said well I guess I will just take a few bottles for me so I can make another batch of mead. I said fine but, I want 1/2 of the bottles produced of mead as payment for my honey. He apparently doesn't need any honey anymore. 

When I get my operation to the size that will let me retire I will run that for 10 years or so and I will be in the boat of Now what. I don't have any kids that want to work this hard. Farming of any kind is a dieing occupation.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I just turn 58 with poor retirement plan at this time. Self employed all my life. At this time I plan on running bees as long as I can. I keep a note book with names of all of the bee yards owners info in it. The number of hives and info on the hives, Splits and so on. Our club in the last year have seen a couple member close down. One was almost a fire sell ( had passed on and financially well-off) the other by a lot of standards was high in price. I was out of town. When I am gone the girls will love the pall of things to find homes for. NOT but that is never fun.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> here it is sqkcrk
> Before My Days Are Over


That's a real tear jerker.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

johno said:


> Well guys 71 years old soon and just getting started, yup using glue and screws. Never stopped long enough in one place to keep bees until 4 years ago. But something is going wrong because I cant seem to stop growing my apiaries. Gave away complete hives last year, sold more than 40 nucs made a fair crop of honey and still grew the amount of colonies this year, don't buy green bananas anymore and don't know what will happen to my hives when I kick the bucket, but guess I wont care cause I enjoyed the ride anyhow.
> Johno


I'm a 68 year old REALTOR. I started keeping bees 2 years ago and am up to 4 hives. Hope to go into next winter with 11. I also plant fruit trees. I will live until I die. My wife can sell my stuff or just let it sit in the backyard. She might even talk one of our kids into taking a hive or two.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> No, not depressing. Just reality and 41 years of fantastic and where does on go from there? Ya gotta think about it.


Mike,
I would think you could continue the fantasy with consulting, queen rearing and speaking engagements......
..... and one more thing..........you could finish that book you're writing!  I can see some big $$$ there........more


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

johno said:


> Well guys 71 years old soon and just getting started, yup using glue and screws. Never stopped long enough in one place to keep bees until 4 years ago. But something is going wrong because I cant seem to stop growing my apiaries. Gave away complete hives last year, sold more than 40 nucs made a fair crop of honey and still grew the amount of colonies this year, don't buy green bananas anymore and don't know what will happen to my hives when I kick the bucket, but guess I wont care cause I enjoyed the ride anyhow.
> Johno


Cool!   enjoy the ride my friend


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

snl said:


> Mike,
> 
> ..... and one more thing..........you could finish that book you're writing!  I can see some big $$$ there........more


Yes, are you taking deposits for the book yet?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>As beekeepers, we need to do a much better job of having someone (other than ourselves) that know the location of our hives.

That worries me. I'm the only one working my bees and sometimes I go years without seeing the landowners and the bees are scattered pretty wide.

None of my kids took an interest. I kept hoping one of the grandkids would, but so far they haven't had an interest.


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## pppswing (Dec 19, 2013)

if you want to transmit your business to your child, then learn how to be a good teacher.

Good teacher will make child choose their domain whereas poor teacher make child hate their domain. 

Whether it's beeks, carpentry or finance it's all about pedagogy.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> >As beekeepers, we need to do a much better job of having someone (other than ourselves) that know the location of our hives.


I would suggest GPS coordinates recorded in a notebook along with landowner information and placed with your other valuables.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I would suggest GPS coordinates recorded in a notebook along with landowner information and placed with your other valuables

I guess I need to figure out how to get my GPS to give me coordinates... but I did, at one time, make a list of addresses. It's probably not up to date anymore...

>if you want to transmit your business to your child, then learn how to be a good teacher.

I think beekeeping is something they either love or they don't. You can't make someone love it.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>> guess I need to figure out how to get my GPS to give me coordinates...<<

Find your yards on Google Earth, then write down the coordinates.Easy.
I used to have to walk for miles locating bearing trees , section tags, and property lines ,all with a compass. Man, how things have changed!


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Are you able live off of 43 hives or are the bees a side line? Do you need another income besides bees to keep things going?



drlonzo said:


> I like so many have recently went commercial, not to the point of migratory pollination, but instead supply of bees. I've young children at this point, and can only hope that i'll be able to get at least one of them involved in the business to take it over when i'm done. However, if none of them want to take that road in life, the only thing for me, and many others is to either find someone that wants to purchase it, or dissolve it little at a time.
> 
> I believe that it's everyone's dream when they begin a business to at some point pass it on to our own next generation, sometimes it works that way, sometimes it doesn't. We as business owners can only lay the foundation work in place, and be prepared to do what it takes when the time comes. I really think that's the most important part of a business. JMO


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Find your yards on Google Earth, then write down the coordinates.Easy.

Good idea. I did find them all once just for fun, but didn't think about writing down coordinates...


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