# Mating Nuc Plans



## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I just built a regular box and cut 2 dado's in it to slide in luan dividers
drilled holes in the sides for entrances

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/DSC01293.JPG 

notice the shim it's sitting on
my plan is to sit it on top of an existing hive and put several frames with eggs in it along with honey, brood, pollen etc
the shim is a double screen board
the idea is the bees are queenless because they're above this double screen board and will build queen cells on several frames of eggs
then I can go back and insert the divider boards as I see fit
the bees up top get the benefit of being above a healthy colony
I haven't tried this yet but the season is apon us

Dave

[ March 13, 2006, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]


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## Kris^ (Jan 10, 2006)

The one I built is similar to Dave's, but I used 3 luan dividers to split a regular deep into 4 chambers. I also put my entrances in a 3/4" shim around the whole bottom edge of the deep, which can be closed with wooden plugs. By selecting entrances, I can set it up as 2 frame mating nucs with entrances on each side, 5 frame nucs with entrances in front, or any combination in between.


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## thorbue (Dec 22, 2005)

Drobbins, are your hives wax/resin dipped or painted?

-Thor


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

I have had those 4 compartment 2 frame mating boxes 30 years but no I stopped it. The dead rate of new born queens are really big. When you establish the nuc, bees are nervous and easily they change from box to box. Queen change compartment too. Queens peep in their nucs and challenge each other to fight. So they begin to search each other. 

Last summer I made 20 solitary boxes and they succeeded spended. In 4 compartment system I had normal problems.

I made those medium mating boxes so that I sawed styrofoam box into 3 parts. Then I made missing walls from stryrofoam insulating board and inner cover too. Boxes are warm and easy to handle. Stryrofoam is easy to clue with polyuretane clue.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>dead rate of new born queens are really big.

Anyone else have this experience?

Finman, were you raising queens in these boxes, or putting in finished queen cells?


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

thorblue

they're painted with this

http://www.nam.sikkens.com/product.cfm?product_id=22&product_category=exterior

it's good stuff but kinda pricey
I had some left over from building a house

as for the mating nucs, I figured if I did it this way and wasn't happy I could still use the box as a super with upper entrances and swear I did it that way on purpose









Dave


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## thorbue (Dec 22, 2005)

George:
>>dead rate of new born queens are really big.
>Anyone else have this experience?

I stopped using supers divided in 4, as I only got mated queens in the 2 outhermost compartments. I must admit though, that I had no dados in the box - only almost snug fitting division boards.
They were used for queen cells.

drobbins: Thanks for the info!

[ March 14, 2006, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: thorbue ]


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>I had no dados in the box - only almost snug fitting division boards.

Did they leak bees?

I've been planning on making 4 2-frame nucs in shallows because I've got the supers and the comb, but I'm having second thoughts now. I wonder, if creative painting might help with drifting or is it just too much in one box? I know 2-frame nucs in a 5 frame nuc box are pretty popular.

I'm pretty sure Michael Bush has used these 4x boxes. Wonder what his experience has been.

[ March 14, 2006, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: George Fergusson ]


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I have a couple of mediums that I dadoed and made special bottom boards with entrances to the sides. They work ok. I just finished making a bunch of double medium 3 frame nucs, 3 frames on each side with a permanent divider. I just took 1x8 pine (7.5" wide). I didn't rip it down. I dadoed for frame rest, sides and divider board. By leaving the 1x8 full width, I just screwd a flat board on the bottom, no special bottom board. I drilled a 1" hole in each side for an entrance. I used another flat board on top, weighted down.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I made mine out of one by eights (not ripped) also and grooved them before I assembled them. I also used a cloth inner cover because of the bees spilling over into the next box. I may try running the dividers up 1/4" higher and making small wooden inner covers. But so far I've just used the canvas inner covers.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/TwoByFourMatingNucs.JPG


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

One difficulty is to get new born queen into mating nuc. 

I took into this method during two years:

When hive want to swarm, I change larvae from good hive to swarm queen cells. So I get about 15 queens. They were really XXL size.

When queens were nearly ready to emerge, I took from raising hive two frames with bees and put them into each nuc with queen cell. Then I took nucs to distance of 3 miles. It succeeded well. No setup difficulties. So I spent whole hive to nucs.


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## thorbue (Dec 22, 2005)

>>I had no dados in the box - only almost snug fitting division boards.

>Did they leak bees?

Don't know for sure! I didn't use them more than once or twice, so it could just be bad luck.
Another reason for to quit them, was that I found them unhandy when I had to work in the hive underneath - then there certainly was a lot of leaking...


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

""I just built a regular box and cut 2 dado's in it to slide in luan dividers
drilled holes in the sides for entrances""

"" I may try running the dividers up 1/4" higher and making small wooden inner covers.""

I have one built (I looked at the one in Kelly cat.). I cut the frame rest deeper and ran the 1/4" plywood to the top and rabbited covers that fit each compartment to keep Bees from spiling over, it is 4-2 frame compartments I haven`t used it yet but it looks nice setting in the shop


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

>thorbue then there certainly was a lot of leaking...<

Me too. A lot of vain losses. 

Last summer went without difficulties when nucs were separate.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

That's why I always do the groove for the divider. I've never had any luck with a simple division board that isn't dadoed into the ends. The bees always find a 1/6 inch gap somewhere and they can get through that small of an opening.


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

I use separate boxes myself. I tried a 3 compartment box once, and the bees spilled over, there was drifting, even with 3 distinct entrances, and I just plain lost faith in the whole situation. I use 3 frame deep nucs, but have toyed with the idea of some 2 framers this year. At the end of the season I can combine the two, and get one five frame nuc, keeping the better queen of course. I winter them, and have starter packages the following year. I had a 5 frame nuc winter by itself this year. Thats not bad for PA, but we had a mild winter.


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## Tors (Jan 6, 2006)

I have just about given up on 4 frame nucs because of ants, unless they were overflowing with bees they got destroyed by sugar ants. I have now started useing a top brood chamber on top of a double screen (mosquito net) and a top enterance. The advantage are :-
If you need to strengthen the nuc you just take bees or combs and bees from below and add them. 
When the new queen lays you just remove the old queen that you want to replce along with the screen.
If the ants try and take the nuc out you have more chance to see a long trail of ants running all the way up the hive to the top enterence. 

Alex King (K142)


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## thorbue (Dec 22, 2005)

M. Bush wrote
>That's why I always do the groove for the divider. I've never had any luck with a simple division board that isn't dadoed into the ends. The bees always find a 1/6 inch gap somewhere and they can get through that small of an opening.<

I think you are right about this - I think leaking was my major problem. If I were to try them again, there should be dados. Another thing is a seperate coverboard for each compartment. Then there isn't so much leaking when working in the 4-nukes.
I think I would place the on their own stand - not on top of another hive.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Another thing is a seperate coverboard for each compartment. 

Yes, I use a canvas inner cover stapled to the divider so you can open each part seperately, but a seperate wooden cover would be a nice idea.

Before I did the canvas inner cover they would spill over from one nuc to the other everytime I tried to work them.

Seperate boxes are the most foolproof, they just take so much more lumber...


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Here's mine. If you want to separate it at the top, just run a saw curf down the middle and insert a fin. I like having the back to back, so one wall is protected from cold.
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/nuc/

[ March 19, 2006, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Ross ]


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Ok, so you've got the mating nuc made (whether it's a divided super or a baby nuc or whatever). 

Now you have to get some comb drawn for it so the queen will have a place to lay eggs. How do you do it without cutting up some of your existing comb (or is cutting up existing comb the best way?)?

And if you're going to cycle a lot of queens thru the nuc (like the big boys/ girls do) how do you maintain the nuc over the long haul with queen cells going in and queens stolen out.

When I started, I hung out with a nationally known breeder. He had baby nucs with 2 compartments. There were few bees in the nuc with the queen ... enough to have some on all frames, but not so many that a newbee couldn't easily get comfortable with them, picking them up for the queen cage and locating the queen. Surely a nuc that will become its own hive will be maintained to produce lots of bees, but what about these baby nuc-breeding nucs?

Waya


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Now you have to get some comb drawn for it so the queen will have a place to lay eggs.

That's why I stuck with the two frame mediums. I can just steal frames from hives with bees, brood and honey and I'm set.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Me too. Mine are 3 frame medium.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I think if you go with the baby nucs, you put the baby frames with foundation in a special standard size super and put that on a hive to draw the comb out. Ideally I think youd make that a broodnest in following years so when you make up the baby nucs they alread have brood and such.

I think, ideally, the nucs get maintained by letting the queen lay in them when they are mated to have enough bees raised in the nucs.

sound right?


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

This winter I made a double three frame nuc. I have a luan divider in the middle and two seperate inner covers. I have a solid bottom board. There is two holes one on top for ventilation and one on the bottom for an entrance. the entrances are on opposite sides of the nuc. My questions are, do I have enough ventilation with the one inch hole (thats covered with mesh) or do I need to put vents in the inner covers ? and do I need a bigger entrance than a one inch hole ? what do you think of a three frome nuc ? There are only two compartments in the hive, with three frames each. Any suggestions ? I have been reading that the survival rate is at about 50% with the 4 compartment hives. I'm curious as to what you guys think about my nuc idea.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Here's one idea of how to draw out your baby nuc combs. After you click on the link, you will need to scroll down a few frames:
http://orsba.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1142738897


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>My questions are, do I have enough ventilation with the one inch hole (thats covered with mesh) 

Yes.

>or do I need to put vents in the inner covers ? 

No.

>and do I need a bigger entrance than a one inch hole ?

No. In fact you might want to reduce it to just big enough for one or two bees to get through if the population is really small.

>what do you think of a three frome nuc ?

It's a nice nuc for many purposes. I prefer the two for mating nuc to minimize the resources needed. But I often move them up to a three as they fill up the two frame box.

>There are only two compartments in the hive, with three frames each. Any suggestions ?

Sounds like a useful nuc box.

>I have been reading that the survival rate is at about 50% with the 4 compartment hives. I'm curious as to what you guys think about my nuc idea. 

The main thing is to make it bee proof between the boxes and have the seperate inner covers so they don't spill over into the other side.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

it is definately bee proof between the boxes. Thanks for the advice and encouragement MB


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/03-037.pdf page 54

Australian have noticed that if you take mated queen under 2 weeks from nuc, it possibility to survive in new hive is very small. 

TABLE QUEENS ALIVE % AFTER 2 WEEKS 

Age of queen survivors
after mating after 2 weeks

7 days 15%
14 d 48%
21 d 85%
28 d 85%
35 d 90%


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

better try
TABLE QUEENS ALIVE % AFTER 2 WEEKS 

Age of queen....... ...survivors
after mating.......... after 2 weeks

7 days..........15%
14 d.......... 48%
21 d.......... 85%
28 d.......... 85%
35 d.......... 90%


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## Kris^ (Jan 10, 2006)

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), I have about three deeps with drawn comb from hives that dwindled over the winter. Enough for three 4-chamber nucs, with a few left over to bait a swarm catcher box.


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

Baby nuc frames can be made to be put together and have a standard frame. I have done it, but I gave up on that as well. It is nice, because you will never have enough bees in a baby nuc to draw out the comb properly. But if you can "snap" it together, and hive will draw it out just fine.
I can make pics available if anybody wants to see them.


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## jnbgcpd (Apr 10, 2004)

Anyone willing to share your plans? Dimensions, how to, etc... I have access to scrap board from a construction zone and would like to build some mating nucs from it. Thinking about double 3 frame nucs with a divider or something similar. Also want the building to be as simple as possible. For example it would be nice not to have to buy dado blades etc... Thanks.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

jnbcpd,
How about a two medium frame nuc? One frame honey, one frame brood with adhearing bees on each. Make a box where the frames sit on the ends of the box instead of dadooing a notch. This *should* leave gaps for small entrances on each end. Make the sides come up to barely above the height of the frame tops. Use a piece of plywood for the top. 

You may want to add a ventilation hole with a screen if the gaps don't look to provide enough venitilation. Or you may need to rig a screen over some of the end gaps to reduce the entrances. Maybe make a hinge out of screen on one end??

Let me know if you come up with a quicky, easy, scrappy mating nuc.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

I use three and four-way mating 6&5/8 mating nucs myself. It is imperative that the compartments are bee tight and have an inner covers. Ideally the queens are left long enough before capture to support the nuc, but in the event of a miss you can always restock off a full size colony. I really like being able to use frames interchangeable with full size colonies.
JBJ


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I really like being able to use frames interchangeable with full size colonies.

My feelings exactly.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

I can come up with the dimensions of the mating nuc that I made. Its a double three frame with a removable divider in the center. It has a hole for ventilation and a hole for the bees to get in and out. Let me know if you want the measerments. PM me


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