# Lang Boxes



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I can't answer all your questions. I cut my own logs and let the wood air dry. We mostly only have hard woods. I can't tell my trees apart very well. I know I have used red oak, white oak and hickory. I am in my second year and so far no dead hives. If the wood has some ill effects which I doubt, it does not kill them. The hives made with hard wood are heavier.
Good luck
gww


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## Armstrong and Family (Dec 24, 2016)

We use poplar for all of our boxes, and the bees are doing great. When you build the equipment, think about the end use, and don't mix species on the same piece of equipment. Different types of wood move differently, and that could pose an issue. 

If I were in your shoes, I would avoid the plywood on the bottom boards, and use the cedar. Bottom boards get wet and muddy. Cedar is more rot resistant than the plywood.
Robbie


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## limuhead (Feb 15, 2015)

Armstrong and Family said:


> We use poplar for all of our boxes, and the bees are doing great. When you build the equipment, think about the end use, and don't mix species on the same piece of equipment. Different types of wood move differently, and that could pose an issue.
> 
> If I were in your shoes, I would avoid the plywood on the bottom boards, and use the cedar. Bottom boards get wet and muddy. Cedar is more rot resistant than the plywood.
> Robbie


Thanks Robbie
As far as the plywood goes I have quite a bit, hate to see it go to waste. This is not your average ply; all hardwood-oak, maple, etc. Averages about $80 a sheet...


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## limuhead (Feb 15, 2015)

gww said:


> I can't answer all your questions. I cut my own logs and let the wood air dry. We mostly only have hard woods. I can't tell my trees apart very well. I know I have used red oak, white oak and hickory. I am in my second year and so far no dead hives. If the wood has some ill effects which I doubt, it does not kill them. The hives made with hard wood are heavier.
> Good luck
> gww


Thanks, I have actually switched to all mediums. Makes things a little easier.


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## thebrighthive (Dec 19, 2017)

Not sure if you're using western cedar or eastern (aromatic) cedar, but I know some folks who build hives out of eastern cedar and claim their mite loads are less in those hives. Oak and mahogany are super heavy- something to consider if you're going to be stacking boxes.


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## limuhead (Feb 15, 2015)

Thanks Chris, I know how heavy the oak and mahogany is- loaded up 4 trucks full of it and my back is killing me. Have lots of poplar too. I might end up making ukuleles out of the mahogany, coffee table or something out of the oak...


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## deansherwood (Aug 2, 2016)

I would steer clear of the plywood. Any cabinet grade plywood I have seen has adhesive meant for interior applications. Even painted it will delaminate within a few months. I believe any of the hardwoods will be ok as long as you don't mind the extra weight, it wouldn't bother me if it was free.


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## Don Warren (Mar 5, 2016)

I've used oak veneer cabinet grade 3/4in. plywood (that i got for free), that i'm using for migratory tops. Some is 5 ply and some is 9 ply. I first seal the edges with wood glue , then when dry I paint both sides and edges with primer and then with 2 top coats. I've got some that have been in use for 18 mos. and they still look as good as when i made them . I've had zero warp occur. I also use regular exterior grade 1/2 in. plywood under my oil trays under my screened bottom boards, using the same glue/paint procedure.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have used every peice of plywood I could find. My view is that I got most of it from other projects and it doesn't take that long to put a top or bottom together and so it doesn't matter to me how long they last cause I only have time in them and no money and I have more time then money. I have been very surprized on how long some stuff has lasted that I thought wouldn't. I have traps out all year long made with cheap chip board that is still doing good sitting out in the wether going on three years.

I have had a few things go bad really quick that surprized me, like reclaimed pine that I made traps with and put cleets on for handles. They were all ready rotting where water sit on the cleets. I would figure on 60 hives that stuff going bad could become a full time job but on the other hand, having bees in sixty hives gives a lot of income producing opertunity to upgrade after you get them established. It would have to help tremedously being able to build up with really low cost.
Just my thoughts.
gww


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you cut your cleats so the the top and bottom surface of the cleats are sloped away from the hive, then the rainwater won't sit on the cleat.

I first got that idea from one of ODFrank's photos with 'full length' cleats, but since the Photobucket debacle those photos are no longer visible. But here is a similar -although shorter- cleat:








Here is the thread that photo came from, although Photobucket may block the images: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?248318-Langstroth-Build


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Rader
Thank you for the link. I actually figured that out when it was on the inch conversion plan that I used to build my warre. I then put the same on some cedar chests that I built for my wife and kids. The ones that rotted were the very first things I built before actually getting bees. I am getting a little better at it.
I always thank you for your many tips given to help me.
Thanks
gww


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I would use the plywood for interior projects like bookcases and shelving. Poplar is the best choice of the hardwoods for the hives because it is the lightest. Get good at making them, then make some show hives from the cedar. Sell the mahogany and oak, unless you were serious about the ukuleles.


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## limuhead (Feb 15, 2015)

JWPalmer said:


> I would use the plywood for interior projects like bookcases and shelving. Poplar is the best choice of the hardwoods for the hives because it is the lightest. Get good at making them, then make some show hives from the cedar. Sell the mahogany and oak, unless you were serious about the ukuleles.


I was thinking oak for coffee tables. I guess I am doing ok at making boxes. I have 14 hives, made them all, but out of fir or pine. I have seen a few people here making 'high end' bee hives out of exotic hardwoods. Look more like furniture than hives. I was asking to see if anyone here had any toxicity issues as far as different types of wood. As far as the ukuleles I have in the past taught ukulele building classes and I have all the jigs.


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> If you cut your cleats so the the top and bottom surface of the cleats are sloped away from the hive, then the rainwater won't sit on the cleat.
> 
> I first got that idea from one of ODFrank's photos with 'full length' cleats, but since the Photobucket debacle those photos are no longer visible. But here is a similar -although shorter- cleat:
> View attachment 36814
> ...


I put handles on all of our hive boxes, my fingers just can't lift them with that tiny grip. Called ageing hands. 
I used the treated 2x2's from lowes, glued and screwed them on, then took some silicone and ran a bead along the box and handle. Some have been on for years, no indication of damage from water collecting. 
Put them just on the narrow ends, we did have them on the long sides but found them to be in the way with the spacing of our some of our hives. My husband and I lift the boxes together. Makes it so much easier esp the honey supers.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

limu
Here is a picture of something I was making for my daughter with some wood. This is before I put the drawer face plates on. This kind of stuff is too heavy in my opinion and my attention span does not allow for intricate work. I am back to good bee boxes with my oak cause I can be sloppy and they still work good.







Cheers
gww


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

From Beekeeping for Dummies:

WOODS TO BE WARY OF FOR BEEHIVES
"Some beekeepers talk about woods that may be toxic to bees and therefore shouldn’t be used to make hives. Black walnut might be one such wood. It’s hard to find any hard evidence of a natural wood that has been proven toxic to honeybees.

However, the sawdust created when working with some woods can be toxic or allergenic to the woodworker (examples are black walnut, mahogany, and cedar). But there’s no evidence that these or other woods are problematic to the bees. Chances are that any of the woods you can get your hands on are okay for making hives and equipment."


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## limuhead (Feb 15, 2015)

JWPalmer said:


> From Beekeeping for Dummies:
> 
> WOODS TO BE WARY OF FOR BEEHIVES
> "Some beekeepers talk about woods that may be toxic to bees and therefore shouldn’t be used to make hives. Black walnut might be one such wood. It’s hard to find any hard evidence of a natural wood that has been proven toxic to honeybees.
> ...


Thanks. This is exactly the info I was after...


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

I have used the hardwood veneered plywood for tops and bottoms since I got some free. Lesson learned in my case... It delaminates easily with a good coat of oil based primer and then a top coat of oil based paint. I tired it on migratory tops. The only way that I would use it today would be for telescoping tops where I would be covering the entire piece of plywood with aluminum.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Slopped handles.





1


Rader Sidetrack said:


> If you cut your cleats so the the top and bottom surface of the cleats are sloped away from the hive, then the rainwater won't sit on the cleat.
> 
> I first got that idea from one of ODFrank's photos with 'full length' cleats, but since the Photobucket debacle those photos are no longer visible. But here is a similar -although shorter- cleat:
> View attachment 36814
> ...


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## pjigar (Sep 13, 2016)

deansherwood said:


> I would steer clear of the plywood. Any cabinet grade plywood I have seen has adhesive meant for interior applications. Even painted it will delaminate within a few months. I believe any of the hardwoods will be ok as long as you don't mind the extra weight, it wouldn't bother me if it was free.


I have built several boxes from furniture grade plywood. The ply had finished veneer and I painted two coats of exterior latex paint on top of that. Boxes looks fine after two years. I did glue-paint all the cross-sections (top, bottom and corners) of the boxes where I can see wood grain out of concerns about delimitation. So far so good. My 2 cents.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

pjigar


> I have built several boxes from furniture grade plywood. The ply had finished veneer and I painted two coats of exterior latex paint on top of that. Boxes looks fine after two years. I did glue-paint all the cross-sections (top, bottom and corners) of the boxes where I can see wood grain out of concerns about delimitation. So far so good. My 2 cents.


I am even worse. I did not paint or glue anyting except for one coat of laytex on top of the two inch foam that is on my tops facing the sun. My stuff has mostly sit out side in the wether for three years though all of them do not have bees in them yet. I have used all kind of stuff and knock on wood, so far not much problim except maby a little warping on the bottom board that is sitting on its own that I use as a tool to sit hives on during inspections and the old pine that I mentioned earlier rotting.

My first boxes built have a few more issues due to quality of wood and build but not enough issues that I have tried to start painting everything. My traps are another story but that is more due to mouse damage then wood damage. Mice will make bigger holes if you leave your stuff out all year and only dump the mice each spring when you bait your traps.

I did notice in oddfranks picture that he has stickered his hive bodies that he took a picture of so that water does not sit where the seams are. I may have to think about that a bit. I just leave my stuff out like this,







untill I am ready to put bees in them.
Cheers
gww


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I would save the plywood and use it on other projects, for interior use. 

I use plywood for covers, and if the edges are sealed with wood glue before painting they usually hold up fairly well. The only time it didn't work out was when I used salvaged kitchen cabinet plywood. Even though the edges of the covers were sealed with glue and covered with a few coats of laytex paint, in the first year of use the ply ended up separating and curling when the humidity was high in the summer months. It curled so badly they were unusable and had to be scrapped.

You may have better plywood than I used, hard to tell. For me it was a complete waste of time and expense and I had to make them all over again with a different material. 

It's tempting to use questionable materials when you get them free. But if it doesn't work out, it's really not a bargain.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Boxes looks fine after two years.

I am into the JollyOllie Beekeeping College of Hard Knox forty-seven years now. Luckily I built most of my equipment with good materials but still make mistakes. I built about 50 migratory covers about ten years ago from what seemed to be great cedar pallet lumber. Tongue and grooved, primed and painted. The pithy lumber was so volitile the tongue and groove joints I had sawed opened and closed 3/8" with the weather. The primer and paint all jumped off. Rot started on some after two years. This picture is only this month's and this year's debris box collection as I renovate and replace old equipment. I suggest you plan for longer than two years. 



One of those covers as I attempted to save it with torch down roofing:



Here they are brand new 2006:


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