# grafting 101



## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Made my first attempt at this Saturday. I have some questions.

Is temperature and humidity of grafting room that important? 

I didn't realize till reading afterwards to make sure I did OK, that 70 Degrees is recommended with humidity. I can use a heater and humidifier next time, if this is important.

If I roll the larvae on the side of the cell while pulling it out, am I likely to have damaged it?

Is priming the cups a good idea? If so, whats the best way? Can you just pull the jelly out of 3 or so cells without the larvae to use?

Do you sterilize a chinese grafting tool with alcohol, or just use it a few times?

I prewaxed the plastic cups, any benifit?

I'm sure more to come. I was going to try the hopkins method but most of my foundation is plastic. I was impressed at how quickly grafting went and would like to get this skill down as it seems very efficent. I'm going to make another attempt this weekend if my first frame is a dud.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Temp is inportant if its really hot. 70 is ok. Time it takes to do the grafting makes it important. Do it fast enough that drying of the cells does not occurr.

Yes, damage can happen if you roll the larvae.

Priming is a good idea. You can put RJ, but a small dab of water will do. Its kind of the good, better, best method. Many things are used to prime the cell. I personally use some water and a little honey if no RJ is handy.

I do not steralize my grafting tool. I prefer the cheap bamboo type tools. 

If I use plastic cups, I do not pre-wax. I like the wooden cell cups with the wax cups. I sometimes use the hair cage style queen protectors and they slip over the wooden cell bases from Kelly.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Do you have any idea what the outcome is? If the weather permits, you can sneak a peak after two or three days. You can see how many have taken. Just be careful.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

yes a bit of regulated temp and humidity helps as does (IMHO) a place in which you feel comfortable doing the graft. 

the wax cell/wood holder need to be polished a couple of days ahead of the graft. it was my understanding that the plastic cell cups come to you all ready polished,


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

You can get the wax cups near polished quality by using a cotton swab and twisting it between your fingers very rapidly. It cleans out any dust and dirt film. Then I prime with honey/water or RJ, and have good take percentages.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

You can actually check back in 24 hours or less (weather permitting). In 24 hours they will have built about 1/8" of wax around the cell cups. Damaged larvae are usually removed pretty quickly. I've checked back in just a few hours before and can get a pretty good idea of how well I did that time.

-Tim


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

If the wax cells need polishing, then I wonder if I should have polished the plastic cups that I waxed?? Ah, working against myself.

The temps have dropped here so I can't check, we had a spot of flurries yesterday then rain all day. This morning was around 40 with a rumor of spotty fluries tonight. Our weather is manic. Should be warm enough Saturday to check.

I have another frame set up ready to go again, I'll try the honey/water priming as I wasn't pulling out much jelly. I rolled quite a few larvae, so I'm not expecting much. At first it seemed required, but the last few cups went well. I should have grafted an entire frame for practice then grafted a second frame to actually use.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

When you use the water/honey, only use what would be about 1/4 of a normal drop of water. I have a bamboo stick, (why I don't know other than it was handy), and dip the stick in the solution. I just kind of dab the stick in the cell. Just enough thats it gets wet. Too much and the larvae can drown.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

michael ask:
If the wax cells need polishing, then I wonder if I should have polished the plastic cups that I waxed?? Ah, working against myself.

tecumseh replies:
I would suspect so...


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Split personality candidate??


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## Ribster (Nov 3, 2004)

Bjorn: what ratio of honey to water do you use to prime with?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I use a shot glass. Honey is no more than enough to coat the bottom. Then I fill about half way up with water. Then stir. Must be something like 10 to 1 or even higher.

I found the water/honey works well, but I think the main thing it does is keep the larvae from drying out. Once the cells are in the hive, not sure if the mixture or what you use really makes a difference at that point.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Thanks, the ratio was my next question.

Will the waxed cups that did not take from my last grafting attempt be polished?  

Yes Michael, they will be polished.

Good, thanks!


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

michael sezs:
I should have grafted an entire frame for practice then grafted a second frame to actually use.

tecumseh adds:
I find that when I begin rearing a few queens in the early sping here I am ALWAYS a bit awkward in doing my first bar of grafts. After one or two bars it become much more natural.

the michael w sezs:
Will the waxed cups that did not take from my last grafting attempt be polished? 

tecumseh answers:
if the bees in the box are of sufficient numbers to cover all the frames then the wax cell cups that did not take the first graft are either most likely to be polished or knawed down to such an extent as to appear to be worthless.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Maybe you should start off by grafting from drones or older worker larva. They are easier to see.

What kind of grafting tool are you all using?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You can always double graft the first batch.







Graft them, wait a day for them to feed them and then graft them again.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm using the chinese grafting tool with plastic cups that I waxed. Seemed like a good idea at the time. 
I made a copper wire tool that looks like it may work. I'm going to try a small paint brush too. 

I've found that I can see the eggs and larvae even in the white wax with white foundation, but when I was going through a hive before grafting, I couldn't tell because I wasn't looking closely enough. I think I will be able to find the right larvae in the hive I want to use next time. By the time I finished the one frame, I found the chinese tool could pull out larvae without having to see it. I started using it the wrong way, but I think the way to use it is to push it down along the side of the cell and let it bend at the bottom to scoop under the larvae. I read that here too. I did that a few times but not consistently.

When you double graft, do you remove the larvae from the first graft? Or do you mean graft again into the cells that didn't take?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>When you double graft, do you remove the larvae from the first graft? Or do you mean graft again into the cells that didn't take?

You graft, let them start the cells, remove the larvae and graft again. The theory is to get lots of royal jelly. I think it's too much work with no real advantage, but it would give you the chance to get into practice.


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

I graft in the afternoon in the shade. 70 degrees will not dry them out like a 90 degree day. I usually graft with a flattened out paperclip, polished with an emory board. I usually dip it in alcohol, and clean it off with clean water. I like to put mu cups in the hive for a day for polishing and scent purposes. After that, I usually graft the smallest larvae I can see with magnifying glasses. I don't prime, but it probably would help getting the larva off the tool. Feeding the hive before hand sure helps that though. I prefer "clean" grafts, meaning the larva didn't roll around, and no foriegn matter ended up with the graft. If the starter box is setup properly, and loaded with bees, they take with decent results. I check on them the next day, because I want to know where I stand as far as takes. After, I'll check in 3 days, and then you have a really good idea as to where you stand.

Double grafting to me, is getting alot of royal jelly. Do not use royal jelly from an older larva though, because it is not the same. They make it a crude mixture for workers. I do not double graft, but I still feel the key to grafting is tons of practice! Once you do it a few hundred times, it gets a little easier! But don't let anything discourage you from trying. It is one of the coolest things about beekeeping.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

there are some good reading about grafting in this month's Bee Culture Mag.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Thanks everyone!,

This weekeend is going to be cooler than I expected. How about grafting at 50 degrees? It was probably 55 last time I grafted. 

Also what about cold temps during cell building? I was thinking as long as its warm enough to raise brood, the temperature should be OK. I'm not worried about mateing flights and drones as it was warm before and soon will be warm again.

And, would it be a good idea to put like 50 grafts in one cell builder, knowing that they probably all won't take? I'm using a frame with about 25.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

What was your take the first time round?


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Good question, frost, work schedule, and cold winds have prevented me from pulling the frame out to look. 

How cold is too cold to look? When I'm there, its been cold enough that "I" wouldn't open any regular hive and expose brood frames.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

If its above 50 and no wind, I could see lifting the frame just long enough to count the cells. 5 seconds or less would not hurt.

Something to keep in mind...Sometimes the bees, even in a strong hive, will cluster and leave the end cells exposed if it is cold enough.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Well, it was finally warm enough yesterday afternoon to check. One out of 25 took. I guess thats better than zero, must have done something right. I also had some queen cells on frames and made up one mating nuc out of that. I grafted again and it went alot better. I went ahead and put in 50 this time since I had a low percentage. There isn't any open brood now either for them to feed. I added two full frames of pollen and shook some more bees in an empty box on the top seperated w/newspaper.

I'd say I was grafting at 55 degrees again, but this time I had a heater and humidifier going in the shed. Maybe it was mid 60s in there. I should be able to check this time in a few days. 

Seems like I read not to uncurl the c shaped larvae when grafting, is this right? I didn't think about it till I lifted a few from one end and the other end stuck long enough for the larvae to straighten.

Also, if I need to, how about a third grafting session late in the week? Is there anything I can do to maintain moral in a queenless cell builder?

Newbie tip: When covering your cell bars with wet cloth for humidity, make sure to ring the rags out as much as possible and let them hang a while to dry, or the cell cups will end up with water in them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You need to lift the larvae with the jelly, and lay the jelly down. Don't actually touch the larvae. They are easily damaged. Also, they have to lay in the same position. If you flip them over they will drown.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Oh,

How do you tell if your lifting the jelly and not touching the larvae? 

Also, I'm thinking that when you make one attempt with the grafting tool, if it dosen't lift out perfectly the first time, you should skip that cell and try the next one?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How do you tell if your lifting the jelly and not touching the larvae? 

You can tell by how the larvae and the liquid move. At least you can if you can see that well.









>Also, I'm thinking that when you make one attempt with the grafting tool, if it dosen't lift out perfectly the first time, you should skip that cell and try the next one?

If you think you bumped it or flipped it over, yes. You may as well just move to the next one.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Most queen grafting instructions I read state to use dark brood comb. Is this so you can more easily see the larvae for grafting? Or does it effect a queen's willingness to lay in it quickly?

Waya


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

well waya it was explained to me years back that the darker comb aided in seeing the larvae, although I (with the assistance of a magnifying lens and light) see young larvae on both equally well.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I've been forced to use young comb with white plastic foundation. 

I would cut some cells out to start queen cells, if it wasn't for the plastic.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Most queen grafting instructions I read state to use dark brood comb. Is this so you can more easily see the larvae for grafting? Or does it effect a queen's willingness to lay in it quickly?

It's easier to see AND you don't poke a hole through the bottom of the cell so easily.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

The results are in from my second grafting attempt.
10 out of 50 took to capping. 20%s better than 4% I suppose. 

However I had mostly short stubby finished queen cells. What is it that causes this? 

The cell starter had plenty of bees, pollen, and feed.
Most of my mateing nucs had finished queen cells in them already since my best hive swarmed leaving loads of queen cells and some real nasty bees.

I decided I had done enough damage to my apiary this spring and combined the cell starter with a week hive. I have 3 colonies starting swarm preparation and will split it up after the cells are finished to fill out my mateing nucs. Kind of depressed about my grafting results, but I will try again this summer for more practice.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>20%s better than 4% I suppose. 

It keeps getting better.

>However I had mostly short stubby finished queen cells. What is it that causes this? 

Some are larger than others and I don't know why. Some think the small ones aren't as good of queens. I haven't noticed any real difference.

>The cell starter had plenty of bees, pollen, and feed.

Plenty of bees is overflowing.









>Most of my mateing nucs had finished queen cells in them already since my best hive swarmed leaving loads of queen cells and some real nasty bees.

Meaning you did or didn't put your cells in them?

>I decided I had done enough damage to my apiary this spring and combined the cell starter with a week hive. I have 3 colonies starting swarm preparation and will split it up after the cells are finished to fill out my mateing nucs.

Those are my favorite queens anyway.









> Kind of depressed about my grafting results, but I will try again this summer for more practice.

It may not be the grafting. It may just be too early.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

>Meaning you did or didn't put your cells in them?

I put my grafted cells in, in addition to the swarm cells. I figured if one cell is good, 3 is better?

>It may not be the grafting. It may just be too early.

Possibly, I'm not really experienced enough to know, although the hives had no problem building their own cells. I'll stick with it, try and build some skills this summer, when I don't have to worry so much about my meddling slowing down the bees.

As a side note, my checkerboarding experiements went great until I ran out of drawn comb. Everything went into swarm mode as soon as they finished it all out. I opened the hives to checkerboard empty frames throughout all the medium boxes, and realized I was too late. I would have needed to do it about 2 weeks ago to make the room when they needed it, but I really think it was too cold for them to draw comb. Perhapse just the extra space would of helped, I don't know. Maybe I can find out next year.


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