# Screened bottom in Texas?



## CampCreekTX (Nov 29, 2008)

A question for the Texans ~ are screened bottoms a good thing or a bad thing for us down here? Are they even worth fiddling with? I'm in Central Texas, about an hour west of Austin.

I read a response or two here (or was it on his website?) from Michael Bush about screened bottoms actually making it harder for the bees to keep the hive cool in summer. For anyone in Texas, has this been your experience? After reading a lot from Mr. Bush, I'm tending to believe he knows what he's talking about, but I don't know if he's ever lived in Texas so I just wanted to make sure his advice really did hold true down here.

Any advantages of screened bottoms besides mites being able to fall through to the ground? Or does a screened bottom not really help with that all that much?


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## Baloo (Feb 28, 2006)

I keep bees in the city of Austin and in Elgin. My TBHs have only one entrance about 5-6in long and 1/4 tall. They do just fine and are some of my stronger hives. Make sure that they have water nearby (of course). I copied Les Crowders' design for a TBH, which sadly is not available on the web anymore. He uses these types of hives in New Mexico. I think that too open of a hive will make it hard for the bees to regulate their temperature. I have all local survivor stock and they don't really seem to have too much trouble with mites. They have them, but they always seem to stay at low levels.


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## CampCreekTX (Nov 29, 2008)

Well, good! I'm glad to hear that. I like the KISS method MBush goes by, so not needing a screened bottom will keep my building experience closer to that and not make me have to re-invent the wheel. The only things I've decided on building different from his plans are having a low-gabled roof to keep the heat off the tops of the bars and a window so I can watch and learn. Being a newbie to bees I think that would be quite helpful in my learning process.

While I have you here, do you know of a local source for bees? I've found a local beekeeper, but I don't know if he can sell/give me a split from one of his hives (the drought has been bad this year, so I'm thinking taking a split from his hives next spring may be a bit hard on them?). I found a listing on Craiglist where someone has bees in a hollow log on their property and wants them removed, but my lack of experience is keeping me from going to get them. 

If I can't find any from truly local sources, is there a seller in Texas where I can buy a package? I'd like to start with bees who are acclimated to our area.

Thanks for the advice, Baloo. About the water as well ~ I have a spring-fed creek that will be about a hundred feet from the bee yard, so I figured I didn't need to build a special waterer for them.


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## Baloo (Feb 28, 2006)

I would not try to tackle removals without a bee-vac. If you get your name out in the area that you will pick up swarms for free you will probably have more than you can handle. You might just try setting up some swarm traps or baiting the TBH with lemongrass oil. You never know, the bees might come to you!
Cheers!


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## CampCreekTX (Nov 29, 2008)

You know, that's probably the best solution. A swarm would most likely come from a hive (feral or not) that has been doing good enough in our climate to have reproduced. And that would be exactly what I want ~ bees that do good in our climate (like you said, local survivor stock).

I'll bet my beekeeping friend will let me help him work his hives a bit until I get used to them. After some of that, I bet I'd feel ready to dump a bunch of bees in a bucket and carry them home. 

Thanks for the advice again, Baloo! :thumbsup: I like this plan.


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## Baloo (Feb 28, 2006)

You might ask this friend if he would let you put a swarm trap out at one of his yards too. It's not like you're taking bees from him, they would have left anyway.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

camp creek writes:
If I can't find any from truly local sources, is there a seller in Texas where I can buy a package? I'd like to start with bees who are acclimated to our area.

tecumseh:
a number I would suspect.  I would not place much faith in bees requiring some acclimation to the local area... finding a 'race' of bees that works for you is another issue. beyond the normal sources (such as the weavers) I am in College Station and Jeffrey Todd is in Austin (I am told he make up hives for folks from time to time). I have never made up top bar hives myself (nor do I know of anyone that does) but a package (not you best or least costly option) would not be that difficult.

are you perhaps located at Camp Creek (north and east of Bryan Texas)?

ps... most folks that use screened bottom boards do so first and foremost to sugar powder dust for mites. if you allow for enough circulation.... heat is really not that large a concern. depending on your location... humidity can be a larger issue than heat (imho).


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## CampCreekTX (Nov 29, 2008)

Another good idea, Baloo! I'll bet he'd let me do that. Thanks for that. 



> I would not place much faith in bees requiring some acclimation to the local area


 That's what I was thinking, Tecumseh. In the month or so I've been reading this forum, I've come across discussions about this (people ordering from a few states over and bees not doing so well, then replaced with more local bees and doing fine). That and my experience with cattle, chickens, tomatoes, etc., has made me a believer in having the right animal/plant for your area to produce well. Good to know you, an experienced beekeeper, agree that's the right track to take with bees as well.



> finding a 'race' of bees that works for you is another issue.


I've read a bit about the different breeds, but don't have my heart set on any. Just whatever is gentle and does well here (any suggestions for the future besides wild/ferals?). At this point I'm more interested in learning than in honey production, so any race/breed of bee that survives well here will do for me for now. I thought I'd worry about which breeds are big honey producers, have prolifically laying queens, etc., later. 



> are you perhaps located at Camp Creek (north and east of Bryan Texas)?


Nope, I'm about an hour west of Austin just off Highway 71 in Spicewood (Our biggest claims to fame are Krause's Springs and that Willie Nelson lives here). I have two spring fed creeks on my property and one is named Camp Creek from the Tonkawa Indians that used to live here (or so the story goes). 

But I wouldn't be against driving a ways to get bees. If I don't have luck with Baloo's suggestions, I'll contact Jeffrey Todd or you. I'd planned on eventually building a couple TBH nuc boxes anyway and would love to learn how to do a cut out so to speak to fit Lang frame comb into a TBH if that would be appropriate. Or I'd just buy a package if either of you have any available then. Keeping costs down is always a concern of course, but if that's the only way I can get bees next year, then that's what I'll do and will be happy with the investment. What would be the best time of year for me to get one from you if needed? How far in advance would I need to contact you about it?

The beeyard will be about a hundred feet from Camp Creek btw. Lots of humidity. So that factor would make it even better that I _not_ have a screened bottom? To help the bees control the humidity? Or am I thinking backwards on that one?

Thank you to you, too, Tecumseh, for the advice. It truly is greatly appreciated.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

campcreek writes:
What would be the best time of year for me to get one from you if needed? How far in advance would I need to contact you about it?

The beeyard will be about a hundred feet from Camp Creek btw. Lots of humidity. So that factor would make it even better that I not have a screened bottom? To help the bees control the humidity? Or am I thinking backwards on that one?

tecumseh> optimally you want to do this at about the first of april. at this time plentiful brood bees and queens are available. plus the season ahead of you means any new start has an excellent chance of making a good start. no matter what you do here (for bees that you set down and leave) feeding a bit at certain times will be the biggest reason why a new start thrives or fails. 

I really don't formally take order (nor deposits) and really have no interest in producing 'splits' in large numbers... I do make up splits up in small numbers for individuals. To toss out a time period... if the request is at the proper time of year I can usually put something together in about 30 days (most if of time is 'spent' in getting the bees and/or a new queen settled into the box).

humidity should not be such a large problem for you... that little stream you mentioned is likely the very best resource for the bees. a screened bottom bar 'might' help in regards to varroa.... an essential if you get to the point of powdered sugar dusting.

good luck with the bees....

ps... I would suggest that any swarms you collect (via traps or otherwise) should have a sample sent to the Texas Bee Lab here in college station to determine origin. I do this routinely myself before I collect any swarms or remove any bees from structures.


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## Baloo (Feb 28, 2006)

tecumseh said:


> ps... I would suggest that any swarms you collect (via traps or otherwise) should have a sample sent to the Texas Bee Lab here in college station to determine origin. I do this routinely myself before I collect any swarms or remove any bees from structures.


Is this a hassle to do? Does it take a long time? Cost a lot? I know I can probably look up the prices online (I'm not THAT lazy), but what is your two cents on this? I have been wondering about this for quite some time. Thanks!


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Baloo said:


> Is this a hassle to do? Does it take a long time? Cost a lot? I know I can probably look up the prices online (I'm not THAT lazy), but what is your two cents on this? I have been wondering about this for quite some time. Thanks!



You must have been the other person that called the Aggies today Baloo.  She said someone else called today about I.D. questions and getting ready for spring. There is still no charge to have it done. Just follow the instructions on the sheet she said. I printed it out to have for swarm removals next year.

http://honeybee.tamu.edu/bee_id/thb_id_lab.html


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## CampCreekTX (Nov 29, 2008)

That was me, Derek! She was a nice lady, very helpful, explaining how they test and what the results would say _and wouldn't_ say (for instance, the tests can't say they're aggressive or not, just what percentage AHB, if any, is present ~ the tests may show only a tiny percentage AHB, but that tiny percentage just may be the one gene for agression, and the reverse could be true as well), so care would be needed with any feral/wild bees regardless. I can certainly understand that. I bred a filly once whose parents were both pocket pets, but (I think) she took after her great-great-grandsire, Native Dancer, and had quite the attitude. 6 1/4% was all the genetic impact he had on her, yet she drew the short straw and got the nasties. So I'll be watchful of them, and plan to have info ahead of time on sources for gentle queens to requeen with if that happens (and my local beekeeping buddy's already on speed dial  ).

FYI, Baloo, it's free and doesn't sound like much of a hassle. Here's the link for the form and info on how to send a sample (about 20 bees in a glass or plastic jar, in alcohol, packed securely). She said it takes her about four hours for the test, so if she doesn't have a backlog, you should get the results back in a week or so from sending them. Pretty nice for free!

Tecumseh, good advice on the testing. I will certainly do that. And like I said above, even if the tests come back with only a trace AHB (or even none), I'll still be ready for aggressive bees, just in case. I've been reading up on requeening to fix that, so will be ready if that happens. Hopefully it won't...



> humidity should not be such a large problem for you... that little stream you mentioned is likely the very best resource for the bees.


 That's what I was thinking ~ cool, clean water constantly available. Good to know that humidity probably won't be a problem.



> a screened bottom bar 'might' help in regards to varroa.... an essential if you get to the point of powdered sugar dusting.


 Is it essential? I saw a video somewhere of a "sugar roll" to count mites and the other bees cleaned the powdered ones once they were dumped back in the hive ~ I'd thought they ate (or stored?) the sugar as they cleaned. And I'd read about Michael Bush's dry sugar feeding dumped right in the bottom of the hive and thought if I did have to dust them sometime, they could just eat the sugar. Am I mistaken in thinking that's okay? Would their eating the sugar from the bottom of the hive allow the mites to just crawl back up on them? I'd planned to use "powdered" sugar I made myself in a food processor from granulated to avoid feeding them the corn starch. 



> I really don't formally take order (nor deposits) and really have no interest in producing 'splits' in large numbers... I do make up splits up in small numbers for individuals


 I do understand. And I hope I won't have to trouble you for them. It's looking like I won't ~ got phone numbers today for two more local beekeepers who may sell nucs or packages. But it's nice to know you have them available in a pinch. I'm thinking of just having two hives at first. I'd be happy with one, but from what I've read it's best to have two in case one needs extra brood or something.

Thanks again for the advice.


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## CampCreekTX (Nov 29, 2008)

*Forgot to throw this out there...*

If anyone reading this, Texan or not, sees any flaw in my plans or errors in anything I say, please don't be bashful about setting me straight or atleast letting me know your experience differs with what I'm thinking. I used to help my dad keep bees, but haven't been around them since I was nine. And I've been doing a lot of reading this past couple years as I waited for the right time to get them, but that's all I've done ~ read about it. I'm sure I can benefit from those of you with actual experience. That's why I'm here.


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## Baloo (Feb 28, 2006)

I will definitely take TAMU up on their offer. They really have a great entomology program. 

Oh, CampCreek bee aggressiveness is a relative thing*. It can vary from day to day, hour to hour. A nice hive can turn nasty if the wrong things happen (like a hive falling over). Always best to be prepared for Armageddon. I do many inspections in shorts with only a t-shirt and veil thrown over my head, but do have the ability to quickly become bullet proof. I know this is a redundant point, but it is nice to be completely protected when the need arises. And one more thing; buy a Camel-bak. Fill it with ice water. It will keep you sane in your suit in the Texas heat. Sorry if I have made stupid points; these are some lessons I have learned the hard way, being lucky. 



*I have been around only a few hives I would consider truly psychotic.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

camp creek writes:
Is it essential? I saw a video somewhere of a "sugar roll" 

tecumseh:
two things that work on the same idea. you dust the bees with powdered sugar and this dislodges varroa. of coures the sugar doesn't kill the varroa and thereby when you use the screened bottom board the varroa fall to the ground and have some difficulty in getting back on the bees. in the 'roll' you add a sample of bees and powdered sugar in a jar and roll this about to dislodge the varroa and then count the varroa in that sample to get some idea of the number (or extent) of varroa infestation in the hive.

camp creek writes:
I do understand. And I hope I won't have to trouble you for them. 

tecumseh:
well no trouble really.... it is simply at least part of what I do here. if you have some problem close by with whatever you are seeking in regards to bees don't feel disinclined to contact me. I do quite enjoy making up nucs in small numbers but am really not so motivated to crank out splits in semi load lots (been there and done that when I was a young man... and that ain't no proper country for old men).


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## CampCreekTX (Nov 29, 2008)

*BRRRRR!!* Y'all get any of this sleet and snow?! Most of it's already melted here, but there's still a bit of it in the cracks and crevices where it accumulated.



> Always best to be prepared for Armageddon.


That's my attitude right there ~ hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. Good to know you've only encountered the worst a few times. 



> And one more thing; buy a Camel-bak.


 Good idea. _Great_ idea when I think of those July days when it's already 90 at 8am. I hadn't even thought about how I'd get a drink when I'm suited up.

Not stupid points at all, Baloo. Seriously, this kind of thing is what I don't know yet, but need to to avoid the big "No-No" of getting frustrated in the middle of a cloud of bees. Got any more tips like that? I'm all ears.



> when you use the screened bottom board the varroa fall to the ground and have some difficulty in getting back on the bees


 This is starting to sound to me like one of those things that I may not ever need, but if I did need it it'd sure suck to not have it. So maybe I'll put one in along with a sliding/hinged cover for it. Best of both worlds. 



> don't feel disinclined to contact me


I _definitely_ appreciate that. I've encountered this helpfulness more than once already with beekeepers. I'm finding out y'all are a kind lot. I think I'm going to like this beekeeping thing.


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