# price of honey vs. sugar



## JBG (Jul 11, 2009)

With the price of world sugar going crazy I'm wondering how strong the correlation is between honey and sugar prices? I think that it would be fairly strong above a certain price for sugar but I don't know how strong the substitute goods realtionship is. Generally honey would be regarded as a luxury sweetner but with the current state of China and dumping I'm not so sure about that.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I would think that the price of sugar would directly effect the price of funny honey out of all those places that do not have many bees. Anybody ever wonder where all the beeswax is that SHOULD be made with the honey? Hmmmm.

Roland


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## JBG (Jul 11, 2009)

My first stabs at this show almost no correlation. Honey is minuscule
compared to sugar or high fructose corn syrup so its more a unique 
specialty product that happens to have sugar and sweetness.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

JBG - if "other" countries are making funny honey out of sugar, the price will be connected. Have you tasted any honey directly out of a barrel from "that country that wallmart shops at"? No self respecting bee would bring that stuff home.


Roland


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## Riverdog (Mar 15, 2009)

Not to be too off subject but there ought to be a simple test like that of moonshine that would reveal fake partial or greased honey. On the sugar pricing it's just like most things, supply vs. demand and weather like Hurricanes and Typhoons oh and don't forget urban sprawl or real estate prices. Other than that, the sooner they prove that HFCS is more addictive than nicotine we'll just weather the ecinomic storm.
Regards


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## Batman (Jun 7, 2009)

HFCS addictive? Dunno about that, I use to be a Mountain Dew junky (I could kill a 12 pack in a day depending on what was going on), then one day, I just stopped drinking all sodas, not even diet sodas. I have maybe 1 soda a week now and even when I do, it's not even a Dew...hey, my weight sure went down! For some reason sodas all taste too sweet to me when I do have one. Sure hope that never becomes the case for honey.


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

Riverdog said:


> Not to be too off subject but there ought to be a simple test like that of moonshine that would reveal fake partial or greased honey.


There is and it is used. The sugar molecules from plants like corn and sugar cane are different in structure than from nectar producing flowers. I don't think it can show beet sugar but not sure. Adulterated honey was a big problem before the test was developed. Now if you adulterate and the packer tests you can be liable for not only what you sold but what you damaged when they blended.

This assumes the packer is diligent. FDA supposedly tests on a random basis but I don't know how often or if that is true. But if a packer is found to be selling adulterated honey they can be forced to recall a large amount (which is what motivates them to test their producers honey).


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## JBG (Jul 11, 2009)

So if we see the price of honey at that big store rise inexplicably we should not be too surprized. Really interesting about that test being able to distinguish among the diff. sugar types. If only they had an easy one for AHBs.


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## CentralPAguy (Feb 8, 2009)

When I read words like "Adulterated Honey" -- Exactly what does that mean -- Does it mean that sugar syrup was mixed into the Honey or does it mean that the girls were fed sugar to create the honey.

I am thinking that molecularly, honey is still honey if the girls digested nectar or sugar. I have read on this forum that honey made from sugar is flavorless though.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

On the adulteration question, either case is adulteration.

Honey is made from nectar by definition. Honey is not made by bees processing granulated sugar, or liquid sucrose or HFCS etc... 

Jean-Marc


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## John Smith (Jan 31, 2006)

The best rise in price will come from multiplying the attitude and value systems of our present honey consumers more so than from industrial switching or customers seeking price advantages. The 'other' sweeteners industry is far too big and they have most of the market. What they do and how much they pay for raw material will only affect honey indirectly if at all. Honey has its own market in real terms. That market is a dedicated minority of people who value honey far more than your average consumer.

If we were generous and applied the 80 - Twenty rule, that would mean twenty percent of the population consume 80 % of the honey. It’s probably closer to 10 to 90 in honey’s case. Very little of what honey is used by food manufacturers is real honey.

I sell honey in my health food shop and know that my customers are not representative of the masses, but my dedicated honey consumers eat something more like 50 pounds per year. Collectively people eat about 1% of their sugars as honey (in Western Cultures) which is closer to two pounds of honey per year. When I get on the street selling honey I am appalled at how many people declare they eat no honey at all.......... some on a doctor’s lead.

It is generally conceded that everyone likes honey, and probably the majority will say that they do love honey, but I think they love seeing the word on the ingredients label more so than buying and consuming real honey. They are easily misled.

The current rise in demand for honey is largely owing to the communication now available to the masses via the www. Case histories long ignored and suppressed are now available for any interested person to access. The establishments now in vogue will not readily espouse the cause of honey. First Lady Obama and her garden fresh honey aside, collectively our governments and managers will treat honey with ignore unless and until the general public create a very strong wave of interest, which is hardly probable considering the average person’s programming to believe what is officially promulgated. 

How do you figure the Manuka honey got up? Did some international Health Organisation promote it?

Of late, I have been selling honey at farmer’s markets etc., and even at a beekeeper’s field day here in NSW Australia. In hindsight, I was amazed to find that the beekeepers were the best market. .............Another good reason to promote more hobby beekeeping, as those newbies will develop a thirst for more and more honey, not only in themselves, but in their extended families and even amongst their neighbors.

Also I am happy to report that my best sales of the book, “The Honey Revolution” were to the beekeepers more so than to my health food shop customers and to the general public.
So my hope (at present) for a stronger demand for honey lies with seeing the dedicated honey users replicate themselves by personal representation, or as we call it, ‘word of mouth.’ The people (that I hear from) who have read that book are pretty switched on to honey. That enthusiasm can only continue to be passed along as time goes on.

We only need to increase our market share from 1% to 2% (of the sweeteners market) and we will have doubled the demand for honey. That will be a huge order to fill. The price (one assumes) would double in the short term, but we have to allow for possible smear campaigns against honey, nationalisation of honey (as an essential medicine) or even huge buy outs by multinationals (who could buy every beehive in the world with their pocket change). Or, in other words, we have to allow for the unseen and the unseeable. Things never work out on the ground like they did on paper.

The devaluing of cyber money is the most likely source of price rises, but inflation being what it is, keeping up to rising costs increasingly gets difficult to do with a mature product like honey. Judging just how much of the price increases in sugar and all commodities is inflation and how much reflects alterations in relative market conditions is well nigh impossible too.

So what I seek is more and more committed honey users. These types are jealous of their honey’s history, and often seek out a local source. They are not easily trapped into paying exorbitant prices, but as honest individual customers, they will not shrink from paying what is necessary. Companies can always accept losses, to the point where they fail. Some are created with the intent of being crashed, but the majority of individuals are serious about their own survival, and when honey is indicated as necessary they are far more likely to pay the premium price than large corporate concerns.

Please accept my apologies for the many blunders I am making with the maths. Statistics are wonderful and can be manipulated to prove nearly anything at all. However, honey is such a universal product only God would know what percentage of the total consumption of natural honey ever makes it to the statistician’s notebook. Hence, I am knowingly telling you what I think and believe more so than what I wish to prove to you.

To sum up, let me suggest we quit focusing on the macro side of supermarket honey distribution, at least for a few moments. They are masters of deceit and intrigue anyway, despite the reality of some very good foods on their shelves. There are no huge profits for them with natural honey and they are not overly concerned about a handful of ******* beekeepers. Supermarkets and large concerns will not try very hard to promote honey. They know they already have trouble supplying the market they have. We the beekeepers are the most likely ones to benefit from the coming changes (the revolution?) in honey, and unless we make it happen, it may well take fifty years to happen, instead of 50 weeks!

Have you read the book yet? Have you sold one to your customer? Are you going to do either? Or are you going to watch and wait and see what happens?

Twenty years ago it would not have been credible to predict any honey fetching the prices the Manuka commands today. It is not advisable for me to predict that all honey could rise to that level in the next twenty years, BUT IT COULD HAPPEN. It did happen with that worthless junk the Kiwis avoided producing! My oh my, how perceptions do change.

Are you ready for it? It may not happen us you help make it happen.

Cheers,

JohnS


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## JBG (Jul 11, 2009)

I've never tried Manuka honey. I'm not sure how it got promoted. My bets are in Brazil because it is the biggest place on the planet where you can produce truly organic honey. No treatment for the hives in region that are either wilderness or protected. The Germans are the most savvy buyers and really put a higher value on it. The Japanese are close but have different interests but still know alot. The country needs to get some notions of brand promotion and consumer education about honey as well as a zillion other things.


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## John Smith (Jan 31, 2006)

and speaking of stastics, here's a link to a news article from yesterday,

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20090823/NEWS05/908230308/1001


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