# New extracting line



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

In short I had a couple thousand hives kicking around the back forty that were brought to the Elk Point area in Alberta. I have a place there. I purchased a bunch of boxes, frames. Just got 2 80 frame Equinox extractors there. Mann Lake sells them. Also purchased a wax spinner from Mann Lake and their uncapper. It is a Dakota Gunness knockoff but apparently quieter. Also got a pump. The extractors have augers to move the honey quickly. Thinking I need 3 650 upright plastic tanks on a stand that can be moved with a forklift to hold the honey for a day or 2 or 3. Not really sure how much can be extracted in a day. If we do 3 times 14 drums a day. No complaints here.

My issue is the sump. Not sure what to do. Do not really want to cut into the floor. I am thinking a shallow sump, will have to be just because of the low heights of the outflow from extractors, spinner. Thinking honey should get pumped from the sump to another of these 650 gallon tanks. I would put a 2 inch valve valve here instead of 4 inch like on the other 3. Fro the first 650 gallon tank I will get a second pump and pump into other 3 650 gallon tanks. 

My question is how to heat the first 650 gallon tank. The role of this tank is to catch 95 % or more of the wax that made it past the first sump. The other 3 tanks will likely not be heated. I am not stuck on using this particular style of tank (conical and self draining) as a sump. A water jacketed tank would be great but not sure where to source one. I have a dairy tank but it need too much time to refurbish for my needs. The whole project is a large scale scramble so I am trying to keep things simple.

Jean-Marc


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Not sure how to heat a plastic tank. I have a couple of 500 gallons ones like that and really like them but have never tried to heat honey in them.

If you can source a heat exchanger this quickly and run the honey through it first then it would just be a matter of keeping the honey and wax at that temp. Put the tank in a small heated room and it would be easy to maintain the honey at a warm temp.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

if you don't heat the sump which should be in floor ,double walled water heat, you need a heat echanger


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

I would cut the hole and use a good heated sump. last I knew dadant was cheaper than Kelly. you can always fill back in the concrete if plans change. I would use your bulk tank with a larger outlet. hard to beat dairy stainless steel.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Thanks for the input. I also find out that the extractors have an auger. Anybody know how high an auger could push the honey. Maybe I can by-pass an in floor sump. Then I would have the wax spinner honey to deal with. That outlet is at 11 inches. I am not sure what kind of volume of honey would come from it. Anybody know what kind of volume of honey would come from the wax spinner if I only sent the honey and cappings from the uncapper? Assuming we extract 4-500 boxes in a day or about 20 barrels that might be 20% of the total honey in the cappings? I am kinda guessing. I do not think that it would be more than 30% but I really do not have enough experience with this. 

Jean-Marc


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

I think you shouldn't have any problem auguring up to 8'. We auger up into a big spinner. I know others that auger right up into there holding tanks. 

I have a 70 gallon floor sump that everything runs into and it is water jacketed.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

If I can auger that high then most problems are resolved. If I can gravity feed into the auger from the wax spinner all will be well. The outlet of the spinner is 11 inches off the floor. Auger is 3.5 off the floor. Should be able to work without too much fuss. 

Jean-Marc


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

jean-marc said:


> Then I would have the wax spinner honey to deal with. That outlet is at 11 inches. I am not sure what kind of volume of honey would come from it. Anybody know what kind of volume of honey would come from the wax spinner if I only sent the honey and cappings from the uncapper?
> 
> Jean-Marc


I installed a very similar setup to this in Florida with an Equinox uncapper and extractor and a Maxant wax spinner (with a basket, not spin-float type). This works very well for the most part. I run the slurry from the uncapper as well as the drain from the loading table into the spinner. I'd say 30% is a pretty fair guess, you'll be surprised how much honey drips off the frames onto the loading table before they even go into the extractor. My sump is in-floor...I had a concrete guy help me do it and it only took about a half day to cut and pour. Not sure where you would direct the spinner output without having an in-floor sump. The Equinox uncapper is a lot quieter than a Gunness...very nice.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Thanks acbz. I am hoping to be able to redirect the spinner honey back to extractors, loading tables. They have augers. Hoping that works, so no concrete guy etc. It then gets all augered to an above floor heated sump... so I can catch any scary stuff, like nails and wires, the odd stone before it gets pumped to a large holding tank. Got some rain in the area last week. Things turned green from bone dry, brown grass stage. The prospect of a good crop increased dramatically. 

Jean-Marc


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## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Can you provide pics? I find this wonderfully informative.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Assuming we extract 4-500 boxes in a day or about 20 barrels that might be 20% of the total honey in the cappings? I am kinda guessing. I do not think that it would be more than 30% but I really do not have enough experience with this.
> 
> Jean-Marc


I think 20% may be a bit low. With a Cowen uncapper I've always estimated around 1/3 but that might well be different with a flail system. 
I don't think you would regret an infloor sump and the larger the better and, yes, it definitely needs heated. One major advantage is it gives you a nice honey storage buffer if you have any pump problems.
I am questioning, a bit, the workability of heating your honey properly without a heat exchanger, particularly in your climate. 
IRT to re pumping from your initial tanks into the others might it be workable to use an open topped metal tank with the top a foot or so higher than the inlet on your storage tanks. Then elbow a pipe from the bottom up into your bulk tanks so you would end up with, in effect, a large clarifying tank that would gravity flow into the other tanks? Wax settlings in enclosed plastic tanks would be a major issue to clean out.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The augers will push the honey very well, simply plumb the auger into the bottom of your sump and have it pumped when it fills. 
Place your tanks in your hot room, keep the hot room at 30 degrees.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

We keep our hot room at 90 degress with in floor heat.30 won't work..


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

If I may speak for Ian, I believe that was 30 C.

Crazy Roland


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

If I may speak for Ian, I believe that was 30 C.

Crazy Roland


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Yup.big difference. Thanks Roland.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Lol, I forget that I'm on an American forum sometimes!


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Last time I checked, you maple leafs where still Americans, no? 

I prefer meters to feet, but have yet to see a good reason to switch to "Centigrade".

Crazy Roland


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

We were told by the food inspection people that they did not want to see in floor sumps.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Which is why we have a 2 story building. No sump, no pump.

Crazy Roland


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm trying to understand the logic of discouraging infloor sumps. Ours extends about an inch above the floor to keep out wash water and debris.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

No sump eliminates that hole that never gets cleaned


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