# Choosing between Warre , langstroth or dadant beehives



## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

I am in search for a beehive that is adapted to the bees and my needs . I am speaking about a hive that will be used just for honey and other by products excepting biologic material . 

My needs currently are : 
- good wintering 
- facilitating ood honey crops ( i use a good strain of buckfast bees ) 
- good spring development - i have the major flows in early spring and early summer ( winter rape , black locust , tillia and if God is with us we have some sunflower ) and the dearth .
- facitating wintering for the big hives 
- ease of manipulation - light weight and small volume 

What are the drawback for each of the hives : warre , langstroth and dadant . 

If are on this forum beekepers from europe ( france , germany , belgium and others in that part - i now that this hives are used very often there ) , I ask them to give me a feedback about this type of hives .


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

Cristian said:


> - facitating wintering for the big hives
> - ease of manipulation - light weight and small volume
> 
> What are the drawback for each of the hives : warre , langstroth and dadant .


I couldnt say i know of any diffrences between a dadant hive and a standard langstroth other than the "dadant deep" which (was my understanding) was the name adopted by many after Dadant is/was the only manufacture to continue to support (what i thought) was the original size of the langstroth brood chamber box.

In case you havnt done your own research yet.... (which I highly suggest you do)

Warre hives feature a 300x300x210mm hive body. A traditional warre hive has no frames, and the bees are allowed to build comb in them freely as they choose. As a box is filled a new empty box is inserted in the bottom of the hive (all additional "supers" being moved up ontop of the new one)

It is my understanding that the size chosen 300x300mm (~12" sq) was chosen as a good avg size cavity that would be found in the center of a rotten tree. The insertion of the empty box at the bottom was to mimic the natural action of the hive expanding "down" the (fabricated) tree hollow.

Items i have issue with (personally defined as drawbacks)

- do not allow frame management
- do not allow a simple way to remove honey from the hive in a manner that does not result in destroying a large part of the hive.
*frames of honey can be extracted, warre boxes of honey can only be removed as a whole and the comb destroyed (crush-and-strain)
*what if your warre box has both brood and honey in it? (ignore that box - what if all the honey boxes have brood in them?)
- require you to have to move all the existing heavy boxes up in order to insert a new box on the bottom. This is labor intensive or requires special lifting apparatus.

drawbacks of a Lang hive.

require larger investment in wooden ware.
can be heavy due to larger size (although this can be countered by moving to smaller frames (use of mediums) or fewer frames (moving to 8 frame hives instead of 10)


As to your requirement of lightweight and small volume. 

IMHO these are neither items that traditional beekeeping hold as goals. 
-honey is heavy 
-small bee volumes limit hive population thus limiting honey production and or cause frequent swarming. (if honey production and or swarm production are neither of your concern, bees can be keep in surprisingly small volumes "successfully")


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

No , no , no . I am a commercial beek so in case of warre I wil use frames like Gatineau or Denis . Those hives will be managed intensely .
Jumbo Dadant ( frame size for me is - 415x300 mm )
Warre ( 272x188 mm ) 
Lang ( frame size for me is - 415x230 mm ) - just one body for a hive so I am not talking about double deep hive


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Schmism, you are mis-informed as to what is possible with a Warre hive. I keep them for many of the reasons Cristian is interested. Personally, for me, it is physically difficult to deal with 10 frame boxes. The management is different, but easily mastered in a short time. Anything done in Langstroth hives can be done with Warre hives. They are much lighter, simpler, and cost much less. No, you do not need to destroy a box to harvest honey. Seldom does a full box weigh more than 40 lbs. "Lifting equipment"? Not generally used, just like Lang hives. But, Warre hives offer no miracles or shortcuts. You still need to learn Beekeeping.


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

How many do you manage and how ? .


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I am in plant growth zone 3/4. I would use whatever system that is readily available for the best price that will give you the volume of about two 9 5/8" langstroth ten frame hive bodies. You can handle them a removable frame at a time if weight is that big an issue. Removable frames became the standard for a reason. Inspectability and scaleability make life easier. As was said, your best advice comes in your valley.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Cristain, I usually peak, in late summer at 20 Warre hives, more or less, depending on conditions. This shrinks, due to combining, selecting best bees, and so forth. I'm working with caught swarms, wild. But I also have some Lang hives. And have had Topbar, KTBH's in the past.
In different types of hives, your bees will have the same needs. The hive is for the beekeepers convenience, the bees will do what they do in any type. Pick what you like best, and realize, all will have pro's & con's. All will need feeding if the flowers are low. Treatments, will be the same for all hives. All will get mites, wintering will require the same preparations. To use an extractor with a Warre comb, make screened "Folding frames". A Warre comb fits inside. Then you get the benefit of reusing comb. That boosts honey production. 1 comb is easily removed, with a simple hooked hive tool. There are too many things to post here!. You should go to the Warre hive forum, and seek the thread, "Reflections on Warre hive keeping", by Bernhard Huevel. ( pardon any mis-spellings,ect.) Really very excellent info on Warre hive keeping, and hive options. And awesome pictures too. All the best, and happy beekeeping.

edit: That thread is titled "Impressions on beekeeping with a Warre or Gatineau hive ". 😄


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Cristian,

I am not commercial, I started with Warre' because it was easy for me to build but I am a geneticist/ breeder at heart so I converted to ALMOST all 8 frame langs last year because of the ease of manipulation and splitting, ect. This year I will be transfering my remaining Warre' to a new design so I can split and manipulate them as well as sell nucs to Warre' owners. My "Warre'" style boxes are 13.75 x 13.75 x 9.5. I'm using Guerilla Beekeepers Spehar frames so I can manipulate, split, extract, or anything else I want to just like a Lang hive. But I like the Warre' square / vertical design better than the wider Lang, plus I think for hobbiest it has a more asthetic appeal.

BUT I have to build everything myself except the frame end bars


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Cristian, I can perhaps answer this for you in the only way that matters. Any hive will work. Warre, Langstroth, Dadant, all of them can be used for your purposes. But there is a major difference in cost for given volume and there are differences in management. Here are the prices for a given hive configuration given that you will be using Buckfast bees and that Dadant depth equipment is commonly available in your area. This is in U.S. dollars and represents costs for the equipment here, not in Eurozone. There is one huge caveat re the Dadant hives, your extractor will have to be able to handle the frames. Most extractors today can't.

$119.21 - Warre hive with 4 boxes, bottom, and roof
$96.10 - 2 Deep 10 frame Langstroth
$75.62 - 1 Dadant Square Deep

Brother Adam used a square Dadant depth hive for the reason that it is very practical, meaning cost effective and management effective. One box holds the brood and has enough room for winter honey. If appropriately modified, it can easily be used as a 2-queen hive.

Warre hives have some advantages, but they are not cost effective.

Langstroth hives are a decent compromise, but are also not as cost effective as the Dadant square deep.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Fusion_power said:


> Warre hives have some advantages, but they are not cost effective.


In the US maybe. Seems they strip the Warré hive users over there. There is much(!) less wood in a Warre hive, so it can be made super-cheap.

A complete Warré hive costs 62 € (69 US$) in Europe. See:
http://www.icko-apiculture.com/en/rucheco-warre.html

A Dadant starts at 105 € (117 US$, but with no frames, no foundation, no excluder, ...) Realistically 150 € each. (167 USD).

The Warré is even cheaper when buying in bulk compared to bulk buying of Dadants. I know, because I have both types. I usually get three Warré hives for the cost of one Dadant.

There was Gatineau who kept 500 Warré hives commercially. He retired though, speaks only French and doesn't answer e-mails. There is another one, Giles Denis, also some hundreds of Warré hives. He is a breeder though, selling packages and queens. There are at least two commercial beekeepers in Germany using the Warré hive.

However, I have now more Dadant hives now. That's mainly for the reason that you can palletize Dadants better because they are less vertical. Palletizing means faster loading and unloading. Plus the one brood chamber makes you working the bees much quicker. With raising hive numbers all what counts is saving minutes here and there.

How many hives do you intend to keep? I reckon that up to 200-250 hives, the Warré are more cost effective. Even higher numbers if you want to raise queens and packages (the dimensions of the Warré hive are almost super-perfect for making queens and packages.)

In case you do not intend to move your hives around but do stationary beekeeping, you don't need to palletize your bees, so Warré hives are still an option, because they are cost effective. And they don't need special machinery like fork lifts, skid steers or so.

Once you touch the 300 hives mark and you intend to do migratory beekeeping, you better do with Dadant or Langstroth I'd say. Personally I would use (and I actually do) the "Dadant US modified" hive (that's what is called here, although noone in the US knows it...it is the deep Dadant frame, but not Dadant Blatt.) 12 frames per box. 

For both the Dadant and the Warré there are special ways to work the hives for commercial beekeepers. To get the most out of it and have the least work. And least swarms. I will try and make an overview, if you like.

Bernhard


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

My goal is to have for honey and by products at least 500 hives . I am moving my hives no more than 150 km at this moment , 3-4 times per year . One apiary has usually at least one flow but in general 2 flows so I am moving hives from a yard to another were is a flow . 
I use a good strain of BK somin generall I domnot have issues with swarming , not more than 
5 % now .
Now I am using 10 frames Lang like M. Palmer ( 435x230 mm ) and 12 frames Dadant 
( 435x230 mm ) for production of package and frame swarm's and also queen production . 
For my Lang and Dadant I use steel strings for fixing hives body for not moving when i transport them ( one hive after another then i put them on a pallet ) .

Questing for each type of hive. :

- how many boxes are you using for a hive as an average 
- are they unstable when they are palletized ( 4 way pallet , two hives are side by side then 10 cm space back to back ) 
- how many kg of honey those a super have 
- overwintering capability - i have some harsh winter's from time to time ( - 25 C for a week or two ) but i insullate the hives with wraps for 4 hives with thick insulation .
- i have flow - dearth - flow - darth - flow and then completely dearth until winter comes - how are the hives resisting to this - how many frames usually are with honey , polen and brood in an average hive 
- what is the width of a frame - I use frames with hoffman that have 36 mm width for both Lang and Dadant and 5.4 mm foundation ( this is what I have here for the moment ) 

If you have time to make an overview for each type of hive and to describe how you are working the hives by they'r type will be very nice .

Cristian


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Fusion_power said:


> $119.21 - Warre hive with 4 boxes, bottom, and roof


I don't really see where Cristian's goals would be any better served by anything other than a commercial hive, readily available, made to fit on pallets, ect.

That being said, I wouldn't sell a Warre' hive for $119.00, usually they have a lot of "finish" work to them and most people that buy them here (at least where I am) buy them for a garden hive because they look nice. * HOWEVER,* if you build your own they are super simple to build, fast to put together if you are not making them for looks and cost about $40.00 in materials.


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

I have my own woodshop so building the hives isn't a problem .


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Cristian said:


> My goal is to have for honey and by products at least 500 hives . I am moving my hives no more than 150 km at this moment , 3-4 times per year.


Therefore I suggest to palletize your hives, because time will be a factor. Loading and unloading. 



Cristian said:


> 12 frames Dadant ( 435x230 mm )


What kind of Dadant is that? It is neither the Dadant modified (482 x 285 mm) nor the Dadant Blatt (470 x 300 mm) we use here in Germany.




Cristian said:


> - how many boxes are you using for a hive as an average


Warré: two for wintering. After first spring, I go down for one brood box per hive, excluder and up to five supers on top of that. Usually three-four. Depending on the queen and the flow.




Cristian said:


> - are they unstable when they are palletized ( 4 way pallet , two hives are side by side then 10 cm space back to back )


You could strap down the Warré hives, BUT those pallets wouldn't be stackable. So you can't stack one pallet of Warré hives onto another pallet with Warré hives. So only single story transportation - which is a too strong limitation.



Cristian said:


> - how many kg of honey those a super have


Warré: 13-15 kg of honey per super when full.
Dadant: 15-18 kg of honey per super when full.

I once measured 22 kg of honey in one Warré super, but that was an exception and that was fixed comb, too, which allows more comb per super without all the frames in the way. 



Cristian said:


> - overwintering capability


Both fine. Dadant needs a follower board and a closed bottom board, or half-closed, in early spring or the initial bee population gets lost in space. 



Cristian said:


> - i have flow - dearth - flow - darth - flow and then completely dearth until winter comes - how are the hives resisting to this - how many frames usually are with honey , polen and brood in an average hive


Slightly advantage for the Warré hive, if you leave them on two brood chambers all year round. But usually you take the topmost super when harvesting, which is not full (if you kept on supering hard), and set it on top of the brood chamber. Which is an reserve for the draught time after the flow. I do this with Dadant and Warré. Only honey brings honey. 

Do not let the bees starve, move them to another flow. There always is a flow somewhere. I also move them up the hills, because in higher elevations the flora is behind the flow in the lower elevations and this way you can prolong the flow of a certain crop.



Cristian said:


> - what is the width of a frame - I use frames with hoffman that have 36 mm width for both Lang and Dadant and 5.4 mm foundation ( this is what I have here for the moment )


I don't like Hoffmann frames, they are too slow to work with. Better get metal pins like those here: 








Picture from: https://www.imkertechnik-wagner.de/...ubehoer/pilzkopf-7-mm-ca-1000-stueck-pck.html

...and use them with a metal rail on the sides of each brood box. Castellated spacers in the honey supers.

In Warré hives I work with metal castellated spacers in all boxes, brood and honey. 

The good thing about the rails and pins is, you insert your hive tool in the center, move all frames to the side at once. Pull one center comb and you have a quick and dirty overview what's going on. Super quick. Some use a drone frame on the outside, as a second indicator for hive activities.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Besides: The guy from https://www.imkertechnik-wagner.de produces in Romania. He is from Romania. So you have a good source for your hives right in your country. Greetings from Bernhard if you contact him, he probably knows me.  He has a good quality and low prices.


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

My bad : Dadant 435x300 mm ( without frames end ) 
The whole frame is 470x300 mm .
Yeah he makes some of the best hives I know . I was at his factory 1 month ago for a beekeepers meeting and saw 50+ types oh beehives . We European beeks are nuts ! 

So you keep warre hives on just one brood box after wintering ? .
A pallet with 4 warriors will be something like 85x70 cm . A hive with 2 brood boxes and 3 supers will have a height of 145 cm .

They don't starve just that between some of my majors flows isn't another smaller one but instead the nature gives them enough to make a living .

I use some deep chamber bottoms that have wire mesh ( a pice of metal sheet to let the air in or not ) the a 10 cm space , a pice of wooden sticks and the bottom bars from the frames .


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Cristain, I also have tools to make all my equipment .If I use best quality exterior exposure grade plywood, only using pine for topbars, handles, and roof parts, I can often get the price down to about $50 U.S. , making Warre hives. Bees do not mind plywood. I think you have a 20 mm available, that would be about best. I do source some parts from recycled pine. That costs even less.This includes the floor, roof, quilt, and some extra modifications I like to use such as, an inner cover and flat roof. Flip the roof on the earth, and no hive stand needed for a box rest. In this area, inside feeders work best. With an extra box, an inner cover, made just like a Lang cover, allows a quart/ liter jar feeder. Putting a strip under the quilt edges to make a beespace, just like Lang inner covers, makes the cloth over topbars unneccesary. ( if not feeding ). Screen the quilt. A small 10 mm strip, inside 2 roof edges, ventilates the quilt perfectly, with flat roofs. Warre hives benefit from some of the effective details in other hives. I find Warre hives by far the simplest to build and maintain the woodwork. Good luck!


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

You might look through this thread on building pallets and pick up a few pointers. Look carefully at the pallet plans and see what could be adapted to your conditions. Bernhard also has some good pictures of the pallets he uses that you might ask him to share.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?277726


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

About pallets things are clear . A warre ( pallet + high bottom + 8 supers + migratory lid + dipping in parafin with rosin + accesories ) would cost me around 25-30 € .
A dadant ( pallet + high bottom + principal body + 4 supers + migratory lid + dipping + accesories ) would cost around 50 € or more . 
If i would chose to use warre probably castellated spacers would be used . But if i will chise to use dadant hive for honey production i will use hoffman because i have now hives that have it now ( i sell swarms on frames to beeks that use hoffman ) so to have two types of frames for the same type of hive would be odd and difficult . 
I use rails because it makes easy to slide frames to look inside the hive . How big are those 
pins ?


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

7 mm


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

Just 2 pins for one frame or 4 for a frame ? . How are you extracting the honey from warre frames because extractors can be a real problem . 
You said that after first spring they remain on just a box . Why not two boxes for the entire season ? .


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Four pins. All pins on one side. Two in the topbar. Two at the lowest end of the side bars. Doesn't get propolized, such pins, and they make sliding all frames en bloc much easier. 

I have a customized Warré extractor. But I would recommend a HAMAG extractor. Or such alike. See: http://hamag-maschinenbau.de/index.php?id=20&L=43 (in German)

You can extract any type of frame in this machine and it uses the Venturi/Benoulli effect to suck the honey out of the combs. Like a vacuum cleaner. Pretty cool. If you have different kind of frames in your apiaries, it is what you want. 

It is super quick, two-three minutes for a load. 

I have the same machine, but to melt and "vaccuum" my wax.

I have one box with a special management, that reduces swarming and enhances honey gathering in the bees. I will detail that later.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

I ran the manufacturer's website through google translation: this is the rough output.


The honey harvester is patented.

Honeycomb carrier with honeycomb in the boiler with full honeycombHoneycomb carrier with honeycomb grid systemHoneycomb carrier without Honeycomb SystemHoneycomb carrier with honeycomb in the boiler with FlachzargenHoneycomb carrier in the boiler with Flachzargensystem


This device operates in the honey extraction not to centrifugal basis as all conventional Honeyextractors, but according to the Venturi principle. This means that the honey is extracted through the regulated air flow in the boiler from the cells.

The running time is reduced to about 1-3 min for 12 frames.

The kettle with honeycomb basket is for all honeycomb dimensions suitable (with one exception). There is no change of direction and not turn the honeycomb necessary.In terms of cleanliness, easy handling, time savings and optimum result in the honey and wax extraction equipment operates completely differently than the machines available today on the world market.

[...]

The honeycombs are inserted into two batches of six pieces horizontally one above the other on the spacer pins or on the grids, which are fixed on the closed bottom plate (This is easier and faster than with other devices).Then a plastic cover is placed and the machine cover is closed. Only now we have a closed system.Also, it is not possible that stick somewhere in a honeycomb pocket as in conventional spinning, the honeycomb.The arrangement of the honeycomb and the air guide plates in the rotating honeycomb roundabout a faster air circulation is achieved, which must flow through between the combs and the high air speed generated at the cells over that of (formed after the Bernoulli's equation vacuum) the honey from the cells on both sides simultaneously sucks evenly.*

Thus, no change of direction or turning the honeycomb is required. The rotary motion of the honey is thrown against the boiler wall and drained through the 1 1/2 "ball valves.The honeycomb abide by suction, and because the cells lie only on the 6 bars, or fully exposed, unharmed, and the honey is removed clean.Particularly Virgin honeycomb are easy to process with this device, since no honeycomb failure is caused by the low centrifugal forces.characteristicsThe basic unit consists of a rectangular stainless steel tubular frame 30x30x1,5.It stands on feet 3 nylon and may be attached to the floor. For smaller unbalances a ground mounting is not required. The boiler is inclined by 3 cm forward, so that the honey can be discharged completely from the kettle.

WithBoiler cover from a 9 mm Betoplanplatte. (The cover can be opened for easy loading and unloading all.)This Betoplanplatte remains at 100 degrees steam flat on the boiler.Switch to monitor whether the lid is closed.300 W AC motor (more is not needed to produce the required rotational movement). Protection: IP 55thThis has a stainless steel shaft diameter 25mm with cone 9 ° for the honeycomb carrier which can be removed always easy.Inverter with a 2m long control line to the engine and a 2m long connection cable with safety plug (230), protection IP 20. Another protection (as IP 65) is available on request possible anytime surcharge. The same applies to the construction like wax spin.Knob for speed control from 0 to 400 U / min.Start button for starting the engine and a button to stop.All higher honeycomb should preferably 0.4 - be wired across 0.5 mm stainless steel wire. A cutting of the wire is no longer necessary with this patented wax recovery.mechanicsThe machine has a honey boilers from 2.0 mm stainless steel (bottom 3 mm) diameter 730 mm with honeycomb support for almost any frame size on which can be easily fixed with 2 screws M 10 on the device. (Capacity 12 honeycomb)The drain valve can remain open during the work. A storage space for honey from about 35 pounds but is always present without it enters the storage of the machine.The honeycomb support consists of a 15mm thick plastic base plate (food grade) with 8 retaining bolts (12mm in diameter) made of stainless steel 12 holding grids made of stainless steel and an 8mm thick cover. (Plastic food grade) and 2 stainless steel vanes. He is to be fixed quickly with a central screw on the tapered shaft.After work, the support grid and the baffles are to be accepted without screws and cleaned in the dishwasher.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Control and timeThe control unit is not secured to the machine.It should be fixed to the wall within reach and can be connected to any standard wall outlet (230 V) can be plugged.In normal honey of suction at 12 honeycomb in about 2 to 3 minutes is completed. The speed is set at 400 rev / min.The startup time can be changed any time, so they can be adjusted to your individual honeycomb.Honeycomb failure is possible only if the accelerated too fast nor too heavy honeycomb.This results in a period of about 10 - 15 seconds per honeycomb.The controller may need to be adjusted once the Wabenmaß used (weight, honeycomb size, stability, wiring, type of honey) on first use. By changing the frequency of the parameters can for every need the right attitude to be found (The controller is set by us in the normal value).In melicitose or tough Waldhonig the run-up time can be extended as required, and the speed is reduced, so is everything that is not firmly crystallized sucked. The honeycomb should always be cooled (bee flight) because as the alveolar structure is much more stable. So you can suck any honey after one or several days of storage. For non-incubated honeycombs of honey goes out much better than of old honeycomb.function explanationWhy honey is extracted from the cells?The decapped honeycombs are stacked with the upper substrate to the outside in the air deflectors on the honeycomb carrier. The retaining bolt of baffles or support grids have the task of ensuring a small distance between the honeycomb (as bees distance). Thereafter, a plastic cover is placed with a hole in the middle and the machine cover is closed.Now the maximum speed 400 U / min is set on the controller in normal honey. (The empty honeycombs are not damaged at this speed.) In melicitose or other tough honeys the acceleration time is increased and the speed reduziert.Wenn now the start button is pressed, the motor starts slowly, and by the rotation of the honeycomb stack the air is as for a fan pushed to the boiler wall to the outside. Thus, the air in this closed system through the hole in the upper plastic cover must now re-enter. Thus a continuous air circulation in the boiler, the flowing past at high speed between the honeycomb to the cells.At about 270 to 300 U / min (depending on viscosity / viscosity of honey) reaches the air stream which flows past the honey cells, such a high speed that the resulting negative pressure sufficient to suck out the honey from the cells completely. Then the honey is thrown through the air flow and also by the existing centrifugal force against the vessel wall.The fact that the honey sucked, you can easily see at a deflated honeycomb. The lid wax remains standing vertically on both sides in all the honeycomb upwards. When the honeycomb would be thrown by centrifugal force, would all cover wax residues are forcibly outwardly in centrifugal direction.This method relies on the Bernoulli equation, which states that the flow volume (air) per unit time always stays the same. When the cross section is reduced, so the speed of the air stream must be higher. This creates in the narrowed portion (between the honeycomb) a negative pressure.The principle of Bernoulli's equation can be observed in many everyday things, and it is used in many technical fields. e.g .:When Scent: air is blown at high speed through a tube, which is in a liquid. The liquid is sucked up and carried away by the air flow. (Each honeycomb cell is a tube.)When curtain: By the downwardly flowing water, the air is entrained, it creates a negative pressure relative to the outside air, and the shower curtain is pulled inward.Two sheets of paper: If you hold two sheets of paper at a distance parallel to each other, and through bubbles in between, you will see that the two sheets go through to the resulting vacuum together and not apart.In a car carburetor: if the air intake pipe is narrowed at one point, then flows at this point, the air at an increased speed, and the vacuum draws the fuel from the mixing tube and tears it with the combustion chamber.In airplane: The wing of an airplane has on top a stronger curvature than on the bottom. Thereby, the air on the upper side a longer distance and thus a higher speed. From Bernoulli's equation follows that a smaller pressure is adjusted due to the higher speed on the upper side (suction side) than on the lower side (pressure side). By this negative pressure on the upper wing surface is the plane pulled up.This process is patented, has no similarity in function with others on the market machinery and must not be copied.advantagesFilling / working height only 97 cm.Outlet nozzle height 41 or 51cm.Faster loading and unloading the machine with honeycomb.Extremely easy and quick cleaning of the machine after work.Significant reduction of the spin time.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

If you want to process honey from 500 hives you need an extraction line. And there is no one for Warré hives. It is a pain to extract some tons of honey in those small extractors. 

You could set up several of the above machines, but still you need a decapping machine, and a wax melter that melts all the wax cappings and so on.


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> Four pins. All pins on one side. Two in the topbar. Two at the lowest end of the side bars. Doesn't get propolized, such pins, and they make sliding all frames en bloc much easier.
> 
> I have a customized Warré extractor. But I would recommend a HAMAG extractor. Or such alike. See: http://hamag-maschinenbau.de/index.php?id=20&L=43 (in German)
> 
> ...


Yep , now I get it . But what happens when I would want to rotate a frame and the two sides from two frames that don't have those pins are side by side ? . I guess no frame rotating at 180' would be the solution . 

Yikes ! pricy stuff . If it was a little bigger than 12 frames ( i guess tha 24 warre frames will fit ) would make the money in no time . 12 frames x 15 cycle/3minutes each = 180 frames/hour x 8 h or more per day = 1440 frames x 1,5 kg each = 2,16 T of honey . Not bad , but not enough when you have 5 or more to extract .

Hmm...one box management for a warre . A complete mistery for me ! .


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## Cristian (Jul 28, 2014)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> If you want to process honey from 500 hives you need an extraction line. And there is no one for Warré hives. It is a pain to extract some tons of honey in those small extractors.
> 
> You could set up several of the above machines, but still you need a decapping machine, and a wax melter that melts all the wax cappings and so on.


With an extraction line is much faster that with a deccaping machine then a few extractors like above because everything is one after another in a line . 

The extractor and the deccaping machine are the big issue here . The rest of them do work without a particulary type of frame . They just use the honey , wax or whatever . 

Hmm...think , think , think Cristian .


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