# Queenless in Delaware



## Smokin' Joe (Feb 9, 2015)

Hey folks. I have a question to pose to the group. Inspected one of my hives today and saw no eggs or brood and very little honey stores. Also didn't notice any drones. I'm pretty sure this hive is doomed but I wanted to toss it out there and see if anyone had any thoughts or suggestions as to saving it.

I have treated for mites with OAV and put 2:1 syrup on them a few weeks ago that they didn't touch. I'm pretty sure that I'm looking at a reproductive swarm that occurred after my honey harvest in early August. Local beeks tell me the hive is not worth requeening this late in the season, and same goes for adding a frame of eggs and brood. Even if they made a new queen she would most likely go unmated.

I have quite a few hive beetles but the bees are keeping them in check at the top of the hive. My configuration is 2 deep hive bodies, all comb pulled and maybe a total of 6 or 7 frames covered with bees. Lots of pollen coming in and the outer frames are wet with nectar. After an extensive search, I couldn't find a queen and the lack of eggs and brood speak to that.

I hate to just think they are going to die at this point and I thought someone might have a eureka moment for me to save them. Any and all thoughts welcome.

Thank you.


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

Another issue is You didn't mention any honey stores. If you don't have sufficient honey stores going into winter, requeening now is a waste of time and money. They will starve. But definitely get rid of those hive beetles while you still can. I've had success with Beetle Blasters with mineral oil filled 1/4 full. Don't spill it or you're looking at smothered dead bees. You'll end up with a slithery mess on your hands if you don't kill them.


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## Smokin' Joe (Feb 9, 2015)

Hi costigaj, thanks for chiming in. I have beetle blaster traps in place and their numbers are going down. I did mention little honey stores at this time. I'm shooting myself in the foot for taking 30 lbs off of them in early August...ugh!

Thank you for the insight. Other beekeepers in my area feel it is also a wast of time to requeen with no stores. They were loaded with honey at the end of July and booming with bees. I still suspect a reproductive swarm but I haven't seen a single queen cell.


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## Tejones121 (Apr 28, 2015)

If it were my hive, I would first condense them to a single deep since you only have 6 to 8 frames of bees. Then I would feed them syrup until they were up to weight and put them to bed for the winter, and see what happens. You could do a newspaper combine but then you run the risk of something going wrong and losing another queen. Too late in the year to risk that.


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

Tejones121 said:


> If it were my hive, I would first condense them to a single deep since you only have 6 to 8 frames of bees. Then I would feed them syrup until they were up to weight and put them to bed for the winter, and see what happens. You could do a newspaper combine but then you run the risk of something going wrong and losing another queen. Too late in the year to risk that.


I have a hive with no eggs, brood or queen as well. I pulled feed and will just store the frames when the remaining bees die and do a split from another colony in the Spring. I'm curious though, Tejones, without brood and a laying queen what would you expect to happen to a queenless colony during the winter? I must be missing something, what outcome would you be hoping for?

Lee


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Since winter bees live longer than summer worker bees, you might be surprised to find a queenless colony sticking around all winter. I've heard others say that they had a colony overwinter like that without turning into laying workers. It is still a doomed colony if a queen cannot be found or have it combined with another colony. But are you sure it's queenless, or is she just very good at hiding?

If you want to buy a queen, I just ordered some from Wildflower Meadows last night. It looks like Wed, Oct 12 is their last shipping date for the year, so you would need to hussle if you are going to get one. I don't know anything about the company, other than Hillary from Beekeeping like a Girl, says she has used their queens before. http://shop.wildflowermeadows.com/2016-VSH-Italian-Queen-Next-Day-Air-VSH16-UPS.htm


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

ruthiesbees said:


> Since winter bees live longer than summer worker bees, you might be surprised to find a queenless colony sticking around all winter. I've heard others say that they had a colony overwinter like that without turning into laying workers. It is still a doomed colony if a queen cannot be found or have it combined with another colony. But are you sure it's queenless, or is she just very good at hiding?
> 
> If you want to buy a queen, I just ordered some from Wildflower Meadows last night. It looks like Wed, Oct 12 is their last shipping date for the year, so you would need to hussle if you are going to get one. I don't know anything about the company, other than Hillary from Beekeeping like a Girl, says she has used their queens before. http://shop.wildflowermeadows.com/2016-VSH-Italian-Queen-Next-Day-Air-VSH16-UPS.htm


Thanks for offering hope for a queenless hive this time of year. It is queenless, no brood, no eggs, brood frames are backfilled. I suspected the hive was queenless before a wonderful vacation took me away, no time in my calendar to deal with it as the situation arose. I'd even be quite uncertain the remaining bees are winter bees, probably geriatric. I'm in Montana, it's really late in the season here, 3" of snow on the ground just this morning. I would have little hope for a re-queened colony with so little time for much of anything for them so rather than risking the money on a new queen I'll hope my strong hive makes it through the winter for an early split.

Lee


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## Tejones121 (Apr 28, 2015)

Grins said:


> I have a hive with no eggs, brood or queen as well. I pulled feed and will just store the frames when the remaining bees die and do a split from another colony in the Spring. I'm curious though, Tejones, without brood and a laying queen what would you expect to happen to a queenless colony during the winter? I must be missing something, what outcome would you be hoping for?
> Lee



Lee, 
Since the original poster did not say exactly how long he has been queenless, then there is still a chance that she is in there and not laying yet. I know I have had a couple of hives that I thought were hopelessly queenless only to find eggs on the next inspection. Also, I am in Chesapeake, Virginia, only a 150 miles south of Delaware and I still have drones. 

Also, even if they are hopeless and eventually die out, any frames syrup they store can be pulled and used in other hives this winter or in a new package next spring. Work them while you have them...

T.E.


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## Smokin' Joe (Feb 9, 2015)

UPDATE: I did an inspection yesterday and found a big fat queen. I'm not sure if she is mated but she is in there. I'm feeding 2:1 and hope they will take it. I'm sure she is new within the last 2 weeks but since the hive has kicked out drones I'm wondering if other hives have gotten rid of all their drones as well.

As you know Tejones queens wont mate with drones from their own hive.


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

Good news.


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

Grins said:


> Thanks for offering hope for a queenless hive this time of year. It is queenless, no brood, no eggs, brood frames are backfilled. I suspected the hive was queenless before a wonderful vacation took me away, no time in my calendar to deal with it as the situation arose. I'd even be quite uncertain the remaining bees are winter bees, probably geriatric. I'm in Montana, it's really late in the season here, 3" of snow on the ground just this morning. I would have little hope for a re-queened colony with so little time for much of anything for them so rather than risking the money on a new queen I'll hope my strong hive makes it through the winter for an early split.
> 
> Lee



that's how a colony goes into winter, little to no brood and eggs, backfilled with resources. I bet you have a queen and you just couldn't see/find her. prep them for winter, and see if they come out next season.


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

DavidZ said:


> that's how a colony goes into winter, little to no brood and eggs, backfilled with resources. I bet you have a queen and you just couldn't see/find her. prep them for winter, and see if they come out next season.


That's enough to get my hopes up, but isn't it too early to see no brood? I've little to lose in prepping the hive for winter though.
Thanks,
Lee


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## Tejones121 (Apr 28, 2015)

That's great news Smokin Joe! The lack of eggs and brood supports the "reproductive swarm" theory. She could have been in there hiding or out on a mating flight when you were looking for her. Either way, you are way better off than you thought you were a few days ago. When she's ready to lay, they will make a place for her. The 10 day forecast looks awesome and the goldenrod is flowing good here right now. I would close them up and leave them alone for a week or so and let them sort it out. You will probably see eggs and larva on your next inspection.

TE.


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## birddog (May 10, 2016)

Two other points, you should probably be feeding2 to 1 to get the hive weight up for winter and you should probably keep a close eye on them in spring as your queen may be questionable if in fact she is a new queen she may be poorly mated and turn drone layer in spring needing to be replaced, however do not be surprised if you still have your original queen as you found no signs of qc but just keep an eye on them in the spring as your are unsure


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