# Candy Board?



## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Looks like to much water to me. I use 1 1/3 cup water to 5 pounds of sugar. I do add 16 oz of light corn syrup once it cools down to 180. This binds it nicely. This mixture will be a tiny bit soft to the touch, but firmer then jello. It firmer then cream cheese.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

Thanks,
I found the recipe online and it came from a Beekeepers Association.

Well, I'll see if they like it!


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I recorded a video yesterday about making the candy board and finished editing. I'm in location where it is hard to upload videos right now. I will show it tomorrow at the club meeting and upload it afterwards. It will be uploaded to:
http://www.youtube.com/paulgdavitt
My recipe is at:
http://www.klamathbeekeepers.org/Beekeeping_Articles/Colony_Management/winter_feeding.html
BTW I use a 13x9x2 baking pan lined with parchment paper to let it cool in. I later cut it in half and put it with the parchment paper into the hive. The video will show it nicely.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It will get even wetter when placed over the bees! The heat of a cluster will tend to loosen it too. It may run and cause a mess and drown bees as discribed. I would scoop it off and feed it on top of wax paper if it were me. Then, the bees can kind of control their dosage. I had a disaster once that started like this! The stuff ran down frames of brood and wasn't found and cleaned up for weeks! By me that is. Just urging caution.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

I left it outside overnight, and just went to check it.

I am just going to throw the whole board into the trash, start over.

The consistency is more like Honey, with a thin sheet of hardness on top.

It will probably end up running all over the place, similiar to what the member stated above


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Don't throw it out. You can always feed it with a top hive feeder, or put a super on top with a pie pan in it. Just spoon it on. They will take it and you don't loose the product.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

Are you sure? Right now we are in the 20's at night, and the 30's - 40's during the day.

I use the med super hive top feeders. The ones that hold two gallons, with plastic floats that they land on. I would be afraid that if they fly up into it while being so cold, they might be to weak and get stuck trying to get back out.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

You can also throw it into a freezer bag and freeze it until the temps are better. That way it will not ferment on you.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

ahhh, To messy for me to play with and bag up. You should see what I can do with a Gallon of Paint!

I'll just take the $25.00 loss in Sugar and board as a learning experience


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Sounds to me like you either didnt keep the 240° long enough or you poured into the boards above 200°.

I bring mine to 250° and cool to about 190° than quickly stir to it gets opaque and pour. It starts to solidify during the pour. The consistancy should be very hard almost brick like. The jello/honey cosistancy happened to me once. I left it upside down in the greenhhouse with newspaper underneath. In two days it all came out and I tossed.


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## A10fuelfxr (Nov 23, 2011)

I like mine to set up hard and the bees have not had any trouble eating it. I had a batch that was turned out to soft so I put back in the pot and reheated to 247. It set up fine then. I don't think I got it hot enough the first time.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

I don't think I took time enough to let the sugar disolve fully.

The mixture was still very cloudy when it came up to temperture.

When I prepare it next time, I will allow the temperature to go high into the Soft Crack stage as A10 did, close to 250.

Also, add sugar slowely, to make sure the Sugar is fully dissolved before adding more sugar.

Same as I do with my 2:1.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Don't waste it! Just cook it again or at worst, leave it outside in the big refrigerator til it warms up. The bees will find it on days when they can fly. Just turn it sugar side up and put a box with a bottom board on top to keep snow and rain out. Wasteing sugar RIDIKQWEUS!!


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Are you using a thermometer?

I don't know how the mixture could be cloudy at the temperature you mentioned ...

http://baking911.com/quick-guide/how-to-az/candy-sugar-syrup-temperature-chart


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

Yes, I have a Thermopen Digital Cooking Thermometer. It is supposed to be one of the Best. 

It was very cloudy, I really think the sugar wasn't dissolved, I had noticed several marble sized sugar balls when I had poured it onto the board.

I had pulled and poured right at the Soft Crack Stage.

Here is my Creation to chuckle at!

Top layer is just like a sheet of thin ice. Underneath, is all Honey Like.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Here is my video of creating bee candy. The recipe is from the Pennsylvania State University. The video has slides with the recipes etc. Very easy to make:
http://youtu.be/XXIucu1Ehz8


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

That happended to me and I reheated it, added more dry sugar poured it in a bowl and mixed in bee pro till thick and placed in baking pan in the fridge. Got me a nice brown brick now : }


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

maybe staple a 1/4 screen onto the board to support it so it stays in place. try to use it. im too cheap to throw something away.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I'd scrape it out and add more water and try again. Also check your thermometer, if it has a paper scale inside a tube, they can slip and read wrong. Boiling water should read very close to 212F unless you are very far from sea level.

Make sure all the sugar is dissolved before you boil it to 240 next time.

I'm not sure I'd try 1/4" hardware cloth if there is actually free liquid under the surface film for fear it would simply dribble into the hive.

Peter


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

Yesterday, I cleaned the board.
I hooked up the garden hose to the hot water pipe for the washing machine and ran the hose outside.
Along with a paint scrapper, the board cleaned up very well.
Today I am going to give it another go. This coming week we are supposed to hit fifty degrees..
Thank you for the Video.
My question now is about the Consistency of the finished product.
In the Video, it looks like heavy wet snow.
Will this be OK after being placed face down towards the frames without the fear of any falling down onto the frames?
I do have some screaning that I could staple over the mixture, though, it is fine mesh.
Thank you,


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

It will be a little bit soft, but not runny. The corn syrup holds it all together. Kind of like cream cheese. You do need the parchment paper underneath it, or the moisture in the hive will make it stick all over the frames. Not an issue, because the bees will clean it up. It it better with the paper from a maintenance point. You can make it harder by reducing the water down to own cup, or even adding protein powder to it.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

This thread might be interesting to someone:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?249354-Candy-Board-Bad-Recipe

I have made fondant using one ounce of corn syrup per pound of sugar. I would think that "candy" would sit unsupported on the frames. And "candy boards", providing a ceiling of sugar, would be hard.

If I was going to have "sugar" sitting on paper I would simply pour sugar on newspaper as in the " Johansson Method" , also known as the Mountain Camp Method.

Note: The amount of water used will not change the consistently of the final product. Temperature and corn syrup will.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Why oh why are you using corn syrup in this mix????
Sugar & water with heat!!!!
Remember KISS!
Keep It Simple Silly!!!


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

It is harder for the bees, if it is hard as a rock. They do need some moisture/water to dilute it in their gut. Regular sugar is also hard on them. The better sugar is inverted sugar. That is what you do by cooking it. You are changing the molecular structure of the sugar crystal, so it is easier on the bees. Sure it is work, but I can give my bees the candy and have regular sugar right next to it. They will go for the cooked product every time. Overall not all candy board recipe is rock hard. It depends on how you want to apply it. I never do is as an inframe feeder. I actually like to use it with my top hive feeder, because that way I don't have to open up the brood chamber when it is cold. You can build a Imri frame, if you like. There are plenty of option out there.


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## ctgolfer (May 4, 2011)

I think your problem may be like mine, hard water, sugar does not dissolve as good in hard water, you can heat and stir longer or buy a few gallons of bottled water. I have had lots of problems dissolving sugar until someone gave me the heads up on the hard water.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

The original poster is interested in Candy Boards. 

With 1 ounce of corn syrup per pound of sugar you can make "Baker's Fondant" that looks like this:


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

The corn syrup does keep it soft.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Katharina said:


> The corn syrup does keep it soft.


Katharina,

I'd be interested in seeing the Penn State "candy" recipe if you have a link. 

If your mixture is very granular I would think that it is simply sugar clumped together with some expensive corn syrup. If the object is to have something non-granular than it seems that fondant would be the answer, but not for the OP who wants to make candy boards.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Here is the link:
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/agrs93.pdf
Forgot to mention, it is on page 36.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Katharina said:


> Here is the link:
> http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/agrs93.pdf
> Forgot to mention, it is on page 36.


That book is on my shelf...

If you follow the instructions EXACTLY, two of the ingredients are never added.:scratch:

15 pounds sugar
3 pounds glucose or white corn syrup 
4 cups water 
1 ⁄2 teaspoon cream of tartar 

Dissolve the sugar in the water by stirring and boiling the mixture until the temperature of the syrup rises to 242°F (115°C). Use a candy thermometer to monitor the temperature while heating the syrup. Let the syrup cool to 180°F (81°C), then beat until thick. Pour the candy into molds lined with wax paper. Place a cake of sugar on two small, 1⁄2 inch square strips of wood in an empty super above the cluster of bees. Cover the candy and the space around it with cloth or newspaper to keep it warm. Remove any remaining candy and feed syrup when the weather gets warm in March or April.

While I've made many batches of fondant, I've never made "Candy". Those who seem to have the most experience with candy boards don't seem to be using any, or anywhere near the amount of corn syrup as suggested in the recipe you referred to. When the recipe doesn't direct one to use half of the ingredients I would look for another ...

Joe


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

That is so true. The instructions are kind of garbled. I basically cook the sugar in the water, cool down and add the corn syrup. I do not use the cream of tartar at all. I have also divided the recipe by 3. That brings it to 5 pounds sugar, 1 1/3 cups water, and one 16 oz bottle of corn syrup. I buy the cheap Walmart brand on all products.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

DUKPT said:


> Yesterday, I cleaned the board.
> I hooked up the garden hose to the hot water pipe for the washing machine and ran the hose outside.
> Along with a paint scrapper, the board cleaned up very well.,


So you fed the ants instead of saving it for your bee's?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Try adding 5 oz. of corn syrup added with the boiling syrup (5lb. Sugar). Bring it up to temp while washing sugar crystals off of the side of the pan. Pour that into your stainless mixer bowl and whip up some fondant... It will give your mixer a workout!!


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## BeverlyBees (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Dukpt,

I tried a no cook candy board this year based on a design from the Southeastern Indiana Beekeepers Association. It was really easy to make and is working great for me so far. The bees really enjoy it. You can see exactly how to make it here - http://www.beverlybees.com/i-want-candy-so-lets-make-a-candyboard-for-winter-feeding 

Let me know if you try it.
Anita


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

The "no cook candy board" seems like another version of the Johansson/Mountain Camp Method of feeding sugar. 

The use of the spacers shown in the video would limit the free movement of the bees. If sugar was placed directly onto newspaper over the frames the bees movement would also be limited, but they would be hindered by food.

The words "candy" and "fondant" are sometimes confused. "No cook candy board", which is sugar on paper supported by screen, could be called by another name.


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## BeverlyBees (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Bee Curious,
It is similar to the Mountain Camp Method except the sugar is one solid brick inside the candy board when you place it in the hive and removable when you remove the board from the hive. The paper is used to help the sugar dry to a block inside the board and the screen is for support. The bees can get at the sugar from underneath or on top of the sugar block. My bees seem to be doing fine moving around it. Everyone has their own method but this one works well for me.

Anita
http://www.beverlybees.com


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

Thank you everyone!

I made up another last night.

It came out much better.

I ran my temperature to 248.

Nice and hard now!


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

What was your final recipe?


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

I used this same recipe that I had originally used from the Maine Beekeepers Association.
This time, I went for a visual in the pot, I wanted to make sure that I noticed the mixture get that elastic stringy look.
Directly after I had noticed this, I was at 248 degrees and pulled the pot and poured.
I actually used six pounds of sugar, it was boiling pretty good and took the extra pound fine.

Following are several recipes for sugar candy:
1.	Boil 1 pint of water, add 5 lbs granulated sugar and heat to 240 degrees. Stir the solution frequently in order to prevent burning or caramelizing the sugar. The solution will eventually clear during the boiling process when the temperature approaches 240º. Remove the sugar solution from heat and cool to approximately 180-200º and pour into the prepared molds or candy boards.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm just wondering about the rate of consumption of these candy boards and the reserves in the hives and have a few questions: I see in the Indiana Youtube video from Beverly it showed a 20 pound candy board for a single hive, and then Katharina used a 5 pound recipe for two hives and said it would last 2-3 weeks. Does anyone know if the Indiana guy is using these boards as an alternative to packing out the hives in the autumn? A 20 pound board is a lot of sugar, but still cheaper than a package of bees. 
Katharina, do you always add a candy board, or only if you think the hive is light? I haven't built any shims specifically for candy yet, but having the option of feeding in emergency seems like a good idea.


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## BeverlyBees (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Adrian,

I started out with 16 pounds of sugar and put the candy board on my hive two months ago. There is still sugar left. This hive was light on honey stores going into the fall and I don't think they would have made it without feeding. If there is any sugar left in the spring it can be recycled to make syrup. Sugar is cheap compared to bees but there's no need to waste it. You could always cut the recipe in half. I have seen it done that way too.
Anita
http://www.beverlybees.com


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Mine have used about 3/4" of the 3" board I put on (something like 20 lbs when I put it on). It's still quite heavy, I checked today since I've not looked into the hive since November and I didn't want them to run out.

A 3" board is probably way too much if they have anything significant stored -- I figure candy is maybe 5% water as opposed to 18% water for honey, and that makes a 20 lb board worth about 60 lbs of honey. 

I don't plan to leave hives as light as this one, but I had to go out of town when I should have been feeding them last fall. Next year I have plans for 1.5" rims to pour candy in, as it's cheap insurance in late winter when I may or may not be able to get into the hives to feed -- I've got some time left before I retire! Naturally, all the nice days for beekeeping I'm cooling my heels at my desk 30 miles away.

Peter


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks, I've been musing. I think it is my nature to always worry about something. Last year I had 3 dead-outs and plenty of honey to add to hives, although in truth there was only one that needed it. I felt that everyone was pretty well set going in to winter, and when I checked a week or so ago all looked well. All are alive at the moment. I have 21 colonies (9 nucs and 12 hives) and I am thinking that I will make a few shim/boards up as insurance. However, I feel a certain reluctance to cook on the stove as it seems like a lot of work. I read Katharina's point about the bees eating the cooked in preference to the poured, but I am not sold on the method because of how labor intensive it it. I can see the advantage of putting it on in the fall as it would give the bees the chance to propolize the gaps. This is an interesting thread.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Another advantage of putting a candy board on in the fall is that you won't have to open the hive as early in the spring, and if you do it's only to take a look at the candy board.

Mine are not clustered on the top, but they sure came out to see what was going on when I started messing around with the candy board! It was only in the 50's and evening, so I didn't try to look any deeper.

Peter


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Peter, do you have a candy board on every hive?


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

No, just my one from a package last spring that was way light this fall. We did feed the left over candy (it didn't all fit in my board) to my brother's hives.

I think a candy board is cheap insurance against starvation if you cannot feed your hives up to weight for some reason, but I'm not sure it's gonna be an attractive solution if you have dozens or hundreds of hives. The local guys are using them more often, seems to cut down on late winter/early spring losses since we have very unpredictable weather here that time of year, with sudden bouts of sub-freezing weather after temps in the 50's. 

If you put them on early enough, the bees will take the syrup that forms on the candy and store it, I think, Mine certainly dripped quite a bit early on, but that didn't bother the bees any.

Peter


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## BoilerJim (Apr 15, 2011)

Hi Adrian Quiney WI.

I just happen to speak withn the Indiana guy that made the candy boards this past weekend at a beekeeping school in Indianapolis. He supplements his honey stores with the candy boards. Puts them on around Thanksgiving. He also said that out of something like 40 hives he has only lost one thus far this year where many of us in Indiana have lost a lot more. I have lost 3 out of 5 hives so far this "mild" winter.

Jim


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## BeverlyBees (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks for all the information Peter and Jim! I need to write it all down for next year. I really love that candy board design. It is simple to make without all the cooking. I encourage you to try it, Adrian. I used it on a hive from a package that could not get enough stores. No matter how much syrup I fed them, they ate it instead of storing it. If it wasn't for the candy board those bees never would have made it this far. Right now they are very happy and doing great because of it. Every time I check on them they are happily eating away, clustered all over that board. My board was 2 inches tall with 16lbs of pound of sugar which is a thick block of sugar. It's got to provide some insulating factor as well. Do you have any info on that Jim or Peter?
Anita


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## tsk (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm confused by the logic here. I'm assuming the important thing is the sugar delivered to the bees (not the water). If candy is 95% sugar, 20 lbs is 19 lbs of sugar delivered to the bees. If honey is 82% sugar, you'd have to give them a little over 23 lbs of honey to get them the same 19 lbs of sugar. So candy is pretty close to the same value to bees (slightly better as 20 lbs is more like 23 lbs of honey or a 15% better value per lb).



psfred said:


> A 3" board is probably way too much if they have anything significant stored -- I figure candy is maybe 5% water as opposed to 18% water for honey, and that makes a 20 lb board worth about 60 lbs of honey.


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## BoilerJim (Apr 15, 2011)

Good question, Anita. However, I don't have an answer for it though. My "guess" is that it would have good insulating factors at least at first but less as the candy is eaten by the bees.

Jim


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I put a quart of water and a good splash of vinegar in my turkey fryer and start adding sugar as the water gets hot. Then I start adding sugar until it gets hard to stir and steam quits coming out massively. I pour it into 10 oz paper soup bowls I buy at SAMS. Then I can just stack them on the top bars in a shallow feed rim as required and put the homosote board and 2" styrofoam back on. lay lid and rock back on and were home. Everyone is still alive.


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## BeverlyBees (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks, Jim. Yes, I figured as much. I was wondering if anyone had any additional information about how much it approximately increases the R value. I have insulation in the cover but the candy board (at least at first) seems to do an okay job as well. 
Anita


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> I'm just wondering about the rate of consumption of these candy boards and the reserves in the hives and have a few questions: I see in the Indiana Youtube video from Beverly it showed a 20 pound candy board for a single hive, and then Katharina used a 5 pound recipe for two hives and said it would last 2-3 weeks. Does anyone know if the Indiana guy is using these boards as an alternative to packing out the hives in the autumn? A 20 pound board is a lot of sugar, but still cheaper than a package of bees.
> Katharina, do you always add a candy board, or only if you think the hive is light? I haven't built any shims specifically for candy yet, but having the option of feeding in emergency seems like a good idea.


I have carnies. They overwinter in a very small cluster and need less feed then Italians. Also my candy board is not hard, it is like heavy cream cheese containing some moisture. The bees need some water after all. I base my feeding on bee behavior and hive weight. They fly a lot they need food. Crazy winter this year. I cannot give you an exact weight of my hives, because I do not use a scale. I start lifting the hives with my hand on one side weekly starting in fall. You get a feel for their weight and start judging from that. I also live in the mountains with 6 months of winter. End of January marks the starvation risk period. Many new club members have already lost their hives to starvation. That's why I've made this video, because it is preventable. Overall the candy is in addition to their food stores. Their honey has way more nutrients then sugar, so I want them to utilize both at the same time. I do use a top hive feeder at this point. That way I never have to open the chamber in winter.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

My Candy board is back in storage for now., 
A couple of good days in the high 40's and now we are back to this.

What I woke up to yesterday morning...


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Same here temps where in the 50's. Then two days of snow ending up with 16" total. This morning 3 Fahrenheit! Sunday is supposed to be 57.


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