# Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens



## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

camero7 said:


> Adam,
> 
> Any idea who got most of his Breeders. Wondering who will be a source for Pol-Line queens



Hi Cam, hope you're well.


Tom sent some of his Pol-Line breeding stock out to queen rearers. The USDA also got some back.

We'll be getting some of Tom's Pol-Line stock this Spring to work with.

We (vpqueenbees) also get Pol-Line germplasm (semen) from the USDA and use it in our breeding program: our Italian VSH (allegro) has Pol-Line in it.

We also produce pure Pol-Line breeder queens and we're planning to work with several other queen producers who have Pol-Line stock to continue to keep the line going.

If in doubt about the source of Pol-Line, check with the producer and see where they obtained their Pol-Line breeding material. T
The Pol-Line world is pretty small!

Have a good one,

Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Good morning Adam, 
I have heard of Pol-Line bees, could you please enlighten me with the origin and the characteristics they were bred for
Thanks 
John


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

johno said:


> Good morning Adam,
> I have heard of Pol-Line bees, could you please enlighten me with the origin and the characteristics they were bred for
> Thanks
> John


Check out post #10 on Adam's excellent forum.

http://vshbreeders.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=125


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

OK, lets see if I have this right. The USDA selected a number of the best hives from a comercial operation that had some VSH stock, of italian origin I guess. they continued to breed from them selecting for honey production and varoa tolerance,and they appeared to be better than the VSH hives they were compared to.
John


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

My understanding, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that the USDA took VSH virgin queens that were outcrossed through open mating in a commercial setting. These outcrossed VSH queens were compared to Russian, and two types of control colonies (Italians). All these were placed into a commercial setting and evaluated. This occurred in 2008 and 2009. In 2011 more VSH outcrosses were added and tested in a commercial setting, with the highest performers being added to the gene pool of the first VSH outcrosses from 2008 and 2009. These groups of outcrosses are what is now considered as Pol-Line bees. At least that's my current understanding.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Since we're on the subject of Glenn queens, can anyone answer this question? In 2011 I bought five Glenn inseminated queens. One pol-line, one pure dark VSH, one Cordovan and two carnies. Two were superceded almost immediatly. (One carnie and the cordovan) The hives were moved in fall of 2011 and only one original queen overwintered.
This hive (I thought) was marked Glenn Carniolan, but my writing on the hive had faded somewhat by spring.
I grafted from this original inseminated queen all summer, but always wondered if she was the VSH or the Pol-line. I thought the carnie queen was darker that this. 
Here is the photo of the original Glenn queen taken this fall:










And one of her daughters. They were all identical in color to Momma:










I'm overwintering about 20 daughters that were the most prolific of the bunch. 
Any guesses as to which variety my original breeder queen is?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Lauri,

Does she still have the numbered disk? If you saved your invoice you should be able to reference her number on the invoice to the disk. If you don't have the invoice and only have her number then perhaps the Glenn's are still responding to emails? However, since you said VSH dark, then my guess is that your girl is likely the Pol-line. Not surprising - every one that I've gotten has been pretty hardy.


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

AstroBee said:


> My understanding, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that the USDA took VSH virgin queens that were outcrossed through open mating in a commercial setting. These outcrossed VSH queens were compared to Russian, and two types of control colonies (Italians). All these were placed into a commercial setting and evaluated. This occurred in 2008 and 2009. In 2011 more VSH outcrosses were added and tested in a commercial setting, with the highest performers being added to the gene pool of the first VSH outcrosses from 2008 and 2009. These groups of outcrosses are what is now considered as Pol-Line bees. At least that's my current understanding.


That's pretty much correct--the idea was to take USDA VSH stock and select it for commercial traits --> take the mite tolerance that VSH offers and incorporate that into commercially suitable lines. 

The testing and development is ongoing. People have been very happy with the results.

Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

Hi,
I'm sorry to be realistic, but determining what a queen's pedigree is from how she looks, isn't very realistic.

She has the coloration of Pol-Line, VSH, some of our Allegro crosses, etc. etc.

I'd judge her on her overall performance and if she's good, use her to make more daughters!

Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I aree with Adam on this. When choosing breeders I like to claim I am not racist. In recent years, though, it seems like I have had to institute a policy similar to what colleges use in their admissions to get at least some color diversity. The darker bees always seem to get overwhelmed by the good ole Italian. BTW love those "stripers" as I like to call them......at least until you try to find them. Notice the workers are both dark and yellow, I always assume I am getting the best of both worlds when I see this kind of diversity.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks for the replies,guys. 
Ya, I knew she was a Glenn at least and just kept the best daughters to overwinter. I didn't want to bother the Glenns at a busy time of year, and I did look on my invoice but did not see a correlation to her #1 disk number on the list. 
If she was the VSH however, I'd use her as more of a drone mother.
I'll just go with the flow and see where it take me.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Fwiw I did get some Glenn VSH queens and they were fairly dark. None of the 12 I bought lasted more than a year nor did they head very remarkable hives but, of course, that's to be expected with II queens. The overall end result I believe was positive.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes Jim, that describes my Glenn queen too. Never amounted to much of a colony with the breeder queen. Too Hygienic I expect. 
None of the queens I grafted compared to the daughters of my breeder queen of unknown lineage-I collected from a swarm in 2011. Daughters from that queen were Amazingly exceptional in many ways, including laying a full week earlier than my other lines after being bred. They were larger sized when hatched and had faster build up.
I got four different colored daughters out of that queen and have about 50 of them overwintering in nucs.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Her daughters would make pure vsh drones so no need to waist her in a drone colony. 



Lauri said:


> Thanks for the replies,guys.
> Ya, I knew she was a Glenn at least and just kept the best daughters to overwinter. I didn't want to bother the Glenns at a busy time of year, and I did look on my invoice but did not see a correlation to her #1 disk number on the list.
> If she was the VSH however, I'd use her as more of a drone mother.
> I'll just go with the flow and see where it take me.


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## Levi's Bees (Feb 7, 2014)

how is 1 to get 1 of these of spring of the pol-line queen daughters. do any 1 have some for sale?????


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

If you are looking for a breeder queen, Adam at VP Queens would be one to talk to.

Velbert here on Beesource has an excellent Pol-line breeder. He shipped me two daughters recently. They arrived on time and in great shape. 

I bought 12 from VP Queens this year. 8 Pol-Line and 4 VSH. I purchased virgins so they would be immediatly crossed with my stock here which are mostly Carniolan hybrids. Had 100% acceptance & return mated rate. Thay are laying very well.

If they overwinter well, I'll choose the best to graft from in 2015. I sell on a limited basis.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Got some from Velbert. Great queens and quite gentle. Reasonably priced. I recommend them over the VSH queens -


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

It's kind of like having a race horse with Man-o-War in it's ancestry. The advantage was that the line came from a few hives of crosses that were not only surviving rough, migratory beekeeping practices, but thriving as well.

The Glenns continued to improve the stock through I.I. Since the practice was stopped, most are open-mated, so some are better, some are worse. I expect that an adept hand like Adam is breeding some excellent stock, and it appears that Lauri's Pol-Line descendants should do very well. Glad to hear Velbert has some, too.

Put me on the list. PM me with prices. I have a few queens that have gone a bit defensive. They'll make it this winter, and I'd like to re-queen them next year with pure Pol-Line or descendants. Thank you.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

I just got 4vsh and 2 pol from velbert....


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## mbwalton (Apr 22, 2013)

The following photos are brood patterns of some Pol - Line Queens that I got from Velbert and created Nucs with them on 8/1. Hope to be able to get them through the winter & graft from them next Spring.

Sorry I did not pull the frame with the queen on it! But with a brood pattern like this & other frames full of eggs I wasn't really searching for her.

Thanks for the wonderful queens Velbert!

Marvin


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

I have run a couple hundred Pol Line queens in my operation over the past year, and have had nothing but swarming with the vast majority of them. They start out great, build up like crazy, really broody, but it seems like as soon as they start to look really nice, POOF they are in the trees. Even with plenty of room and excluders pulled during the swarm season. I want some vsh genetics in my hives, but swarmy bees cost too much to keep around. Has anyone else experienced these issues with Pol Lines?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

acbz said:


> I have run a couple hundred Pol Line queens in my operation over the past year, and have had nothing but swarming with the vast majority of them. They start out great, build up like crazy, really broody, but it seems like as soon as they start to look really nice, POOF they are in the trees. Even with plenty of room and excluders pulled during the swarm season. I want some vsh genetics in my hives, but swarmy bees cost too much to keep around. Has anyone else experienced these issues with Pol Lines?


I'm only running around 40 with Pol-Line or supersedures of a Pol-Line right now. Only had one swarm this year. I don't use excluders and run 2 deep brood boxes with them. Very happy with them.


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