# Pale bees, disorientation, slow death



## troutdog (Apr 21, 2011)

Howdy friends

Curious thing today I had laid small pieces of plywood in front of hives to stop weeds ( not poisonous green boards) and found a dozen or so very pale and sickly bees in various stages of dying. Those hat could move we're walking in slow circles and rolling over onto backs and just moving legs, flying out of the question.
No k wing, hive temperament usual peaceful.
Looked at several other hives and found 3 more with similar scenarios. Not all hives in apiary but thus far four. Die off is modest say a few dozen for each h I've but ".......... I hope this is not beginning of something
They are new hives from walk away splits about month old now. Inside brood is normal, no signs of classic diseases all really looked quite good, fed with sugar water and amino and honeybee healthy, and pollen patties.
Farmer has no crops only horse and cows and doesn't spray round up, too early in year for crop spraying as corn isn't high enough and orchids are abandoned. I have never seen this in any disease book or even heard of the color leaving the bees so that they are a pale yellow all over. These are Carnolian must. Parent hive is doing fine and shows none of these symptoms.

Toxin? Plant toxin? Disease 
Asking a lot for such a brief description I know.
Thanks in advance
Tom


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I think you meant, Carniolan, not Carnolian.

Perhaps they are covered with a dust of some kind, perhaps with some toxic qualities, maybe even spray paint. A closer look under a magnifying lens could help determine that. Or drop them onto a piece of black cloth or paper for enhanced contrast, in order to determine more characteristics of whatever is on them.

I have known bees to be curious and investigate all kinds of powdered substances, even collecting different powders as if they were pollen.


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## troutdog (Apr 21, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I think you meant, Carniolan, not Carnolian.
> 
> Perhaps they are covered with a dust of some kind, perhaps with some toxic qualities, maybe even spray paint. A closer look under a magnifying lens could help determine that. Or drop them onto a piece of black cloth or paper for enhanced contrast, in order to determine more characteristics of whatever is on them.



Not dusty at all just looks like the color was drained out of em, and different than say an old bee going off to die. Been raining here in the Hudson valley not much dust after these monsoons and very little pollen for that matter which is why I suspect a plant toxin but not sure and really a just asking to see if there is something far worse occurring here.
So far the answers locally
Bad polluted water
Plant toxin
Neonictioids
Chemtrails
Possibly bad pollen patty ( doubt that as they were just bought a week ago and kept in fridge)


No signs yet of any brood malady, k wing, mite count extremely low, I have some training under my belt for disease inspection and treatments
Ever notice how bees get Breyer when they die and sit round the hive. Well this like the opposite they are faded to a light brown.
I'll take some pics tomorrow when I'm at that yard.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I know that much of a bees color is in their hair, which wears off as they age, to expose more of their underlying exoskeleton and its color. If these bees were cordovan, their becoming pale after possibly losing much of their hair, would be an explanation, since many of my colonies are populated by a large percentage of cordovan workers. The older cordovan workers, after losing much of their hair, do have an appearance, somewhat as you describe your problem bees. Of course, these older bees are often on their last leg.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't have a clue, except the remote possibility that the plywood may be treated.


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## Jcbeeguy (Apr 19, 2013)

I have the same new bees look very light in color some have messed up wings


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

> and doesn't spray round up


Round up is a herbicide, not a pesticide. The active ingredient is glyphosate. It will not kill bees unless it is sprayed directly on them (and this only by asphyxiation from surfactant).

Pale bees that cannot fly sound a lot like new nurse bees. I don't think they would be throwing nurse bees out of the hive though. Did you look closely? Could they have been just hatched drones?

It sounds like some kind of pesticide poisoning. 



> Chemtrails


Could you please explain this?


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## troutdog (Apr 21, 2011)

Chemtrails are referred to the exhaust from the jets these days 
Speculation is that they are more than jet fuel and contain things like barium sulfate a and aluminum compounds that are poisonous
I am no expert on the subject but there is a lot on the web about it
I tend to doubt this theory and just think they found a puddle of polluted water with oil or something in it


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## Harvester (Jan 19, 2013)

Hi, folks
I was searching for a ~~link to a health condition when I ran into this thread. I'll try to attach a photo to this reply. 
Just one bee helped out of the hive by others. No color apparent.... Get an error on my JPG file when replying, sorry...


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Sounds like DWV to me, get pale bees w/o the wing deformities time to time.


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## Harvester (Jan 19, 2013)

Sorry!!


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## Michael1964 (Aug 4, 2011)

WOW... I had never head of DWV. So, DWV is where maybe the worker bees think or know something is wrong with the about to hatch bees and pull them out and carry them out of the hive?

I can't seem to find much on that... other than what I wrote here and read that the ver mites are the cause?


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

You just described my hive. Varroa and DWV.  This is my first year, and it's been rough. I think this little hobby of mine is over.


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## Michael1964 (Aug 4, 2011)

Ah, just hang in there., chr157y. On a good note, at least your bees know to throw the larva/bees out it seem. I might would try some stuff to kill as many of the varroa as possible.. Could be worse, like mine, dumb and getting weaker..etc..etc.. but don't give up, if you enjoy the bees. For me it has been a really costly experience for me. I got one sorry start with poor quality NUCs and had problems with all of them.. but I swear I it has made me a better bee keeper. The folks here on this forum told me it would and it was hard for me to see at the time being super discouraged. Just this year, I have a couple of folks that have been keeping bees longer than me and should have more experience than myself have issues that were simple for me. I base my life on helping anyone that needs help and are trying...so it made me feel really good to have already gotten the experience to help others...but I still learn every day... of course in every aspect... I can say for sure Michael Bush's web has made me pretty well rounded with the bees. anyway long story and I am sorry for the book... Just hang in there..what does not kill you makes you stronger.
God bless you.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

You will find some good reading here. Look along the far right column for more reading about varroa management. HTH


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

troutdog said:


> Chemtrails are referred to the exhaust from the jets these days
> Speculation is that they are more than jet fuel and contain things like barium sulfate a and aluminum compounds that are poisonous
> I am no expert on the subject but there is a lot on the web about it
> I tend to doubt this theory and just think they found a puddle of polluted water with oil or something in it


Contrails (short for Condensation Trails) are triggered by the changes in air pressure in wingtip vortices but can also be triggered by the water vapor in aircraft engine exhaust (these ones could contain some other combustion waste materials). You can see them spill off the wing tips of jets when they take off and land if conditions are right. - Sorry for the topic deviation ...


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

Does anyone have varroa treatment recommendations for warm weather? It easily gets into the 90s here.


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## hedges (May 18, 2013)

Passive solutions would be to buy a drone frame from a supplier (one of the green ones) and use it, removing and freezing it once it's full of capped brood. That alone can lower mite counts significantly. If you're using a screened bottom board, that will reduce the mite population by about 1% a day, and shaking powdered sugar once every two weeks (more frequently if they're a real problem) on the top bars and into the hive will lower mite levels.

Hopguard can be used without temperature restrictions and it's non-poisonous to the bees/honey, but it's messy. The biggest concern with most chemical varroa treatments is that you can damage the queen. So be careful, and if you use a different chemical treatment, you would be wise to go back in a few days after you stop treatment to make sure you're queenright.

Remember that treating for varroa will lower the varroa levels. Not the virus levels. So while ultimately lower varroa levels will lead to a healthier hive with lower viral load, you won't see an immediate reduction in viral influence in the hive.


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## Michael1964 (Aug 4, 2011)

Someone on another thread said "Hopguard can be used without temperature restrictions ".. I don't know myself but you might could read the info on Hopguard.


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

Thank so much! I have no clue how helpful this has been. I'll update and let you know how it turns out.


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