# Not the bees



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

It amused me too. I thought how neatly a .22 would fit right above the nose.

Did that with a blow dart once, shivered about three seconds and fell off the rafters.


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

The picture was amusing - however any fun was ruined with the following celebration of shooting cats. Must be a boy thing.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Ann. You have nothing to add to "Where Have all the birds Gone"?? {naturebee} 

"The picture was amusing-however any fun was ruined with the following celebration of sh
ooting cats. Must be a boy thing"....I am a "boy" AND I RESENT that statement! [OB.]

First of all I want to say that I am NOT a hunter; never had a license or a gun. I respect those who DO [hunt] for their ENVOLVEMENT in the presevation of natural habitat for ALL kinds of wildlife. Much of the "natural" environment that we have today can be attributed to the licenses/taxes/contributions/stamps, of "hunters". 
There was quite an UPROAR about shooting wild cats in my state a few years ago; 2005 I think, where are own governor said we would be the "laughing stock" of the nation if it was allowed. I!!! was in an "uproar" when my state voted? to allow the hunting of Mourning doves 2 years ago.
You may not be aware of this but there is a SERIOUS decline of grassland/meadow and other ground nesting birds that may be more vulnerable then shrub/ tree" nesters.
I miss the sight and song of the Bobwhite quail in my area. They are ground nesting birds and I don't think the hen would have much of a chance against a cat. The young leave the nest after a few days but are still vulnerable to predation weeks after that.
Other ground nesting birds are also in decline; Bobolink, Meadowlark, Dickcissal, etc, etc., etc. You can find ALL you want to know and than some on the internet about this "issue". "I thought how neatly a .22 would fit right above the nose"...Bullseye Bill. YES!!! I bet I could drive just 30 miles out and 30 miles back on any country road in my area and any part of the state during the evening and see a cat along side the road 96% of the time. Nothing can be "accomplished" if we don't come to some kind of "agreement " about this. You don't want this to be like an "Israeli/Palistinian problem??. Do you???


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

No, I don't, because my cats stay in and this thread isn't about that. I'm commenting on the frequent occurence throughout all the forums I read, (that are, surprisingly, mainly dominated by men), where great sport is made about killing cats. Your rant belongs in the other thread, on which I agree with the sentiments that cats shouldn't be allowed to roam freely. That doesn't mean I think you should be shooting them for the shear joy of shooting cats. Where is your outrage about killing innocent animals? Oh, that's right, I said it was a boy thing. It still is.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Well........................."girls" do NASTY things also and are NOT without SIN!!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Also....I think the "cat lobby" HAS way TOO MUCH!! power TODAY and the birds will always be at a disadvantage. P.S. The Humane societies around the country are SPENDING a lot of money that could be better spent than on litters and litters of unwanted CATS.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Ann I’m going to have to line up on your side this time, I’m not a cat lover but don’t find any humor in putting a .22 round between the eyes of a cat just because the target presents itself. I wonder what kind of reaction would have happened if it had been a picture of a friendly Labrador Retriever.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"No I don't, because my cats stay in and this thread isn't about that" [ANN]..........SO,.. do you know how many "families/children/homes out in the country DO NOT ALLOW their cats to roam out in the country?? This is also a PROBLEM because of more homes/families/kids/pet lovers[cats] living out in the country in the last 30 years. This coincides with the decline of grassland birds and NOT so much about lack of HABITAT!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Brent Bean: Who said anything about "HUMOR"?? What needs to be DONE should be done. I mean.................. I watched public TV. about the Emperor penguins that live in the Antarctic and some of those penguins [parents] actually "cause" the death of some young birds because over attentiveness. We just need to GET OVER IT and DO what needs to be done. I would much rather see more grassland birds while driving around than some "domesticated cat" out roaming.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Maybe there will be a few voluntiers/societies/groups or whatever who would like to "obscure" the problem for a few years with "neutering/release or "whatever" but the BIRDS still SUFFER!!.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Oldbee: I think you are just trying to cover up the real comment that has got Ann up in arms. And by the way the leading cause of decline of wild birds is not domestic cats that are over running the countryside killing every bird in sight. It’s mans destroying their habitat by developing the land for subdivisions and such. I think it’s a ridiculous justification to just shoot cats to control the problem. That kind of thinking has been humanities sad legacy, people once felt that way about birds of prey and just in my lifetime. So get off your bandwagon about how cat are destroying our wild birds. In reality humans are a much bigger threat.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Since you brought it up. Brent, I do seem to recall seeing fewer and fewer song birds, game birds, rabbits, squirrels, ETC. in the country since the birds of prey have been protected strongly and increased by great multiples. When the farmer and hunter were allowed to keep the birds of prey in check, the small wildlife were much more plentiful. 

Of course, feral cats and habitat loss fail to increase their numbers, I do admit. Now we have three reasons for their reduction in numbers. All need to be addressed.

Ann, there is a great difference in shooting cats for sport, and killing feral cats for wildlife enhancement. I am in total disagreement with the first and total agreement with the second.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

The REAL threat is man's destroying their habitat by developing the land for subdivisions and such'". So.......BrentBean?...................as the POPULATION increases what do you propose to do about IT?.............Maybe limit the number of "pets" a home should be allowed to have?? I wonder if this this "dialogue" took place when the "Starlings" and House[English] sparrows were "Introduced" into NA. also. They didn't "know" much about '"introduced species" back then but now hopefully we do, but apparently some continue to EMOTIONAL without thinking about the future. And the same goes when our Natural Rescouces Dept. trys and trys to tell people that MUTE swans are NOT native and need to be eliminated from lakes and ponds. Do the people respond with some kind of intelligence??? NO!! they cry like little babies for their ILLIEGAL SWANS who destroy the environment for native species.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

For what's worth, I haven't shot anything with a firearm that I don't intend to eat.

Paper and clay targets, mice, *****, opossums, skunks, prairie rats, and coyotes excepted. And no, I don't shoot cats, I do however sell a lot of CB's.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Ann said:


> I agree with the sentiments that cats shouldn't be allowed to roam freely. That doesn't mean I think you should be shooting them for the shear joy of shooting cats. Where is your outrage about killing innocent animals?


So when it's something you have an issue with you refer to "us men" as "boys." Hmm.

Just so it's clear, I said I use a BB gun, which in no way injures the cat. However, I do lose respect for cat owners who let their cats roam freely outside beyond their own property. I've seen my neighbor's cat kill baby birds learning to fly "for the sport of it." Birds? . . . cats? . . . I'll take the birds any day.

- Barry


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## xC0000005 (Nov 17, 2004)

I keep a pair of Daschunds who have absolutely no problem "de-catting" the area. They like to chase the squirrels (the old one will let the squirrels go once he catches them). Never bother my cat. They have educated a few of the others on property lines. There's nothing like a flying ball of teeth and fur to convince the cats that there are better places to hunt.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"For what it's worth, I haven't shot anything with a firearm that I don't intend to eat". Bullseye Bill.............Oh sure.. ..now you tell us. Boy! you sure stirred up a hornets nest!!By the way, what are CB's


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Ann - I have cats that roam about freely. However, I have them to keep vermin within tolerable limits on the farm. I feed the cats daily, so they don't have to subsist on rodents alone, and they tend to keep close to the back porch in the summer, and on rainy and winter days are in the barn and stable. I haven't seen them go after any birds, but I have seen them with frogs in their mouths, returning from the pond.

Oh, we care for the cats - they are not feral in any terms of the word - they are dependent on us for sustenance and shelter. Oh, we have also had them spayed.

MM


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

Mapman, I'm not the one with a problem with cats. We had barn cats, too, when I was growing up, I understand about mice and such, they used to run around in the walls in my bedroom. Until the cats got them! 

My cats stay in because I live on a very busy street, and I'm afraid they'll be killed on it (as my last cat was). I fed birds with that cat outdoors, I raised up the birdfeeder and they quite happily ate and laughed at the cat below who couldn't catch them. And yes, Barry, when it comes to the 'killing cats humor' I find it very childish, in the boy department, it's immature humor. Thing is I don't take any offense in being called a girl. That's what I am. Female. Woman. Girl. Whatever. And yes, girls can be immature, they just generally don't go around laughing about killing small animals.

None of it is an insult, unless you're looking for insult.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Ann, don't let those ninnies get to you -- they are just pulling your chain -- they don't mean what they say.

I don't live on a busy street; we probably get a couple dozen vehicles down the road a day, half of them horse and buggies. So it was a big surprise when one of our cats was run down a couple months ago, right in front of our house. The nicest cat, too. And, it was my youngest daughter who found her -- right when she was arriving back from a competitive marching band trip to Canada... Tore her up to see that... At least she was celebrating the victory of her band...

MM


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>By the way, what are CB's

CCI makes CB's, lovingly referred to as Cat Bullets. 

See here --> http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/rimfire.aspx

Down towards the bottom under Low Noise/Training/Speciality, they are the preferred bullets for sniping varmints in the backyard.

Also check out the game -->  http://www.cci-ammunition.com/game/default.htm


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Ann said:


> Thing is I don't take any offense in being called a girl. That's what I am. Female. Woman. Girl.


I guess we have different benchmarks for showing respect. I would never address a peer of mine, or anyone over 18, "girl."

"—Usage note: Just as many mature men, even young men, resent being referred to as _boys,_ many adult women today are offended if referred to as girls"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/girl


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

Barry said:


> I guess we have different benchmarks for showing respect. I would never address a peer of mine, or anyone over 18, "girl."
> 
> "—Usage note: Just as many mature men, even young men, resent being referred to as _boys,_ many adult women today are offended if referred to as girls"
> 
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/girl


If you are determined to take offense, Barry, then I apologize only for the fact that you are offended. I am not, however, offended by being called a girl. I suppose using your logic I should be highly offended - there are more important things in life to get my panties in a twist over. Or in your case, knickers in a knot.


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

coyote said:


> I ran across this and it amused me
> 
> Cute poster!
> 
> ...


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Back to the original post, what the heck does it MEAN? Why's the cat all freaked out about bees?


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Ann said:


> And yes, girls can be immature, they just generally don't go around laughing about killing small animals.
> 
> 
> > Heh, I worked with a woman who used to loudly proclaim her love of cats. "I keep a few in my trunk all winter, just in case I get stuck and need something to throw under the tires for traction."
> ...


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*solution*

"When the farmer and hunter were allowed to keep the birds of prey in check, the small wildlife were much more plentiful" -iddee


will the birds of prey eat all the extra cats??


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

Hmmm....my wife bought a bb gun for the express purpose of "knocking off" a few neighborhood cats because all of the neighborhood cats enjoy "knocking a few off" in our sandbox and elsewhere and leave behind lovely "clay balls" for our kids to play with.

"The girl" was so disappointed when I told her that a bb gun would only leave a little dent in a cat instead of a hole.

Then I told her that a better solution for cats involved a hole and a lawnmower 



Rick (an avowed cat-hater...they make my throat close up, they make my wife itchy and my kids swell....oh and they poop in my yard, but I couldn't really kill one as much as I like to joke about it even though all the neighbors so irresponsibly let them roam wherever they want to)


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## Jesus_the_only_way (Mar 17, 2006)

ScadsOBees said:


> "The girl" was so disappointed when I told her that a bb gun would only leave a little dent in a cat instead of a hole.


That's my kinda "girl".


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

Cats are in, so some birds are out. That's too bad but it doesn't matter what you think, you aren't going to change that fact. 

I agree with Ann. 

There's too many Ted Nugents around. We need more Buddists.


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

I wouldnt have a problem with feral cats if their only foods were rats, starlings, the common gray squirrel and slugs. Unfortunately, they seem to prefer endangered species.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

I'am Baaack!!!!!!!! Holy Smokes!! I thought this thread ended on page 2; [last night] apparently not!! Interesting comments!! Well....when it comes to "panties in a twist" and "knickers in a knot". Ann: over a silly 


photo that nobody knows what it means anyway [what does it MEAN], dcross:? Well...........what can I say, Time to cease and desist? You know what they say...A picture [photo on Beesource] is worth a thousand words. [and then some, lol.]

"Cats are in, so some birds are out. That's too bad because it doesn't matter what you think..DeeBee: EXCUSE ME!!! EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....... I THINK! Therefore I AM!!

Death to WILD cats!.........Long live the birds!!!!!


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

I have no problem with your cats, or mine. The cats I have a problem with are the one's of the people in town.

From what I hear from the man it usually happens like this. The house cat starts clawing the furniture because it is kept inside and bored. The wife starts complaining about it so the man says something to the effect " I know a farmer who needs a cat in his barn". The wife then gives the OK since the cat just knocked her grandmothers cut glass compote off of the fake fireplace mantel.

So the man takes the cat down the country road until he is just past a nice looking farm house and out the door it goes. Now what he doesn't know is that the nice looking farmers house is mine and he is the 4th man to drop a cat this week. Cats are everywhere. Two neighbor women (both from the city) could not stand to see cats starving so they took some in. Between them they had 33 cats. I was afraid to eat the Christmas brownies at one of the houses because a cat was laying on the counter beside of the open box.

Then these many cats started cattin' around. We have wild cats that have running out our ears. I got a trap and was taking a cat to the humane society every day. After a week they stopped taking them. The cats kept on cattin' around so now there are hundreds running thru the woods. After the rabbits were gone the hawks and the coyote's started eating cat. You can't leave the windows open to listen to the morning birds because of the cat's squalling as they are cattin' around.

I still catch the cats in traps. Then I call the neighbors and see if it is theirs. If not I let it go. You would be surprised how your deer season improves if you can hit a running target.




The above story is all true with the possible exception of parts of the second paragraph.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>The above story is all true with the possible exception of parts of the second paragraph.
__________________

Yeah, I'd be careful of those brownies too.  Especially if they had little green specks in them....


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

shoot the bird dogs too while you're at it. (I am Really just kidding) I am a guy AND a cat person and we've always had our cats neutered before they contributed to the population


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## xC0000005 (Nov 17, 2004)

I worked with a cat shelter once. They did spay and release for a while, then moved to a more agressive form of spay and release. You could _request_ barn cats that "did not play well with others." As the director put it, the "one eyed, ugly scarred, vicious cat that would seek out other cats not in its territory and attack them just for the sake of fighting." For tomcats they wanted huge, nasty buggers who would drive everything off. For females they chose ones who would attack the males even when in heat. I saw two of them get released. They did it with a pole because the handler said if anyone was near when the door went open, well, that was a scratchin' right there. The guy who got them said that he loved those cats. They killed half the other cats in the first few months that they moved in and the other...left. 

I detest cats but my wife likes them. Those things were barely cats. I'm not even certain what to call a cat like that. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't call them, because there's a microscopic possibility it might come. When I helped them assign names I used names of demons an occult book. Before that they were the only cats at the shelter to get numbers instead of names.

I guess some people just like them.


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

berkshire bee said:


> I am a guy AND a cat person and we've always had our cats neutered before they contributed to the population


It might not sound like it, but I like cats too. My cats, the ones I choose to invite to my home. We have 3, all spayed or neutered. 

Lots of people feel that when they are dropping an animal off they, are doing it a favor by preserving it's life. 

What kind of life is this. One day you have food and water at your disposal and a life of comfort. The next you are in a strange surroundings, any food you eat you have to find yourself, kill it, and then fight off other animals trying to take it away. In daytime the hawks hunt you, at night the owls and coyotes hunt you. Then after a time you dye from a brain cyst because of worms you got from eating a field mouse or catch rabies during a cat fight.

I applaude you and any other person who has their dogs and cats fixed and take them to the humane society when they are through with them.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

*Cats [wild cats] versus birds.*

kc in wv: VERY well stated!! I know this thread more or less "died" a few days ago but I feel strongly about this and a newspaper [Green bay,WI] article prompted me to add another comment. SORRY? maybe 
not. The article: "Stowaway cat survives 100-degree truck ride".
Quotes from cat owners: "She's definitely a pretty darn independent cat," Roskam said. "She likes to be OUTDOORS all the time but comes home every morning." 
From the "newspaper": The kitty's life WILL REMAIN LARGELY UNCHANGED ONCE SHE GETS HOME. The owners: " She loves to be out doors, and needs to be outdoors, Roskam said.

So,.....there you have it............cat "lovers".
I don't have a problem with "pets" being outdoors; in fact it bothers me when animals of 
of any kind are confined and obviously bored [with there life].

"habitat and the bandwagon": Brent Bean. I am NOT on my personal bandwagon but only supporting what a PHD. research scientist [Stanely Temple] at the UW. Wisconsin has tried to PRESENT to the public as a reason for the decline of native bird species. Only to be met with ridicule and derision [actual threats of violence] from the ALMIGHTY CAT LOBBY!! Yes....Brent Bean, the loss of HABITAT is a huge problem, "but"... as are population increases [as it inevitably will]............what is your solution? The Bobwhite Quail, [Colinus virginianus] was a common bird throughout southern WI. during the 40's and early 50's; as far as I will go back. The slow decline of this bird; a beautiful, wonderful bird with a bright clear whistle in the morning, coincided with the loss of "habitat", changes in agricultural methods, AND!!!....HOMES; being built out in the country with families with pets and CATS, CATS, DOGS and more cats. The "wild" Turkey has thrived in our area in the last 30 years. I don't think a "cat" would be any match for a wild turkey; a big old "gobbler" or a hen. But a poor Bobwhite????


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

Oldbee said:


> Yes....Brent Bean, the loss of HABITAT is a huge problem,


Ummm, not to me it isn't. I ain't losing any sleep over it. 

Species come and go and if humans are the cause of a species going, directly or indirectly, then it's nature's way of weeding out those which cannot adapt. Mankind is not an abberation of nature. If mankind becomes so overpopulated and squeezes out too many other llife forms then nature will take it's course and eliminate most of mankind and then new species will rise up and take our place. That's the way the world works and has for millions of years. Does anyone think we are the final link in the evolutionary chain? That would be ridiculous.


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

Dee Bee, you _so_ get it!


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## Parke County Queen (May 22, 2006)

kc in wv said:


> It might not sound like it, but I like cats too. My cats, the ones I choose to invite to my home. We have 3, all spayed or neutered.
> 
> Lots of people feel that when they are dropping an animal off they, are doing it a favor by preserving it's life.
> 
> ...


I live in the country and find that our yard is a dumping ground for unwanted animals. I am definitely not a cat lover, but can't stand to see something starve. So usually, I take them to the humane shelter. 

I think there is a special place in hell for the people that dump animals.


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## spacemoose (Sep 25, 2005)

and when properly cooked.......... really do taste like chicken !!!!! L O L !!!!!!


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