# Why doesn't everybody make their own equipment?



## ukewarrior (Jul 4, 2013)

Are they glued? Your workmanship looks very nice.

It's like most things in life. It's a question of time. I have a full wood shop, but buy alot of my woodenware so I have time for other things.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

Well, I plan to finish mine during summer. I have about 250 hive bodies to go!
and I used glue, nails, staples, and screws


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## Birdman (May 8, 2009)

I think you had a post where you said you paid $6.00 for a 1x12x12 that would cost me 17.00 on sale-22.00 regular price, which will make 2 hive bodies, 8.50-11.00 bucks. I can buy a skid of 50 at about 13.00 ea.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

I guess I got a good deal. I understand people not making deeps when the lumber prices are so high.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Because our local supplier knocks them together so fast and inexpensively that it is hard to say no. We picked up a new hive yesterday. When we got there he didn't have any 8-frame boxes assembled, but put one of his kids on the job. By the time we'd picked out the rest of the parts, the boxes were ready to go.

Meanwhile, the local bee inspector showed up and filled up his car with parts. Frame pieces by the armload. If you've got the tools and the jigs, obviously they go together fast.

I've got the woodworking equipment, but plenty of construction jobs to work on.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

I agree, people in the US probably have more suppliers than we do in Canada. The only good-priced beekeeping store in Canada is the Beemaid Store in Alberta but the shipping kills. Locals here charge about 19$ for an un-assembled deep box. That's what got my saws running!


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

Except for frames, which I buy unassembled and put together...I build all my own equipment...Boxes, Bottom Boards, Ventilated inner covers, Migratory lids, Telescoping tops, and Nucs. I've also done a few single items...a Bee Vac, a Solar wax melter, and just finished an observation hive. 

While I certainly don't mind saving a little coin, the most honest answer as to "why I do it", is simply because I enjoy it. While the savings compared to buying are significant, if I did not enjoy doing it and had to put a price on the time i devote to it...it wouldn't even be close to worth it.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

I am 18 and I don't have a job so I have some time afterschool and during the breaks to do some woodworking. Next year, I am going to university so it will be difficult to continue this, but I still hope to make some during my semester breaks. I appreciate making my own equipment as well and the savings are just a bonus.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Be sure to check when you get to school. I would not be at all surprised to find they have some sort of beekeeping. 

My Alma Mater, Va Tech does. I was up at Penn State last fall ... they're heavily into it. I keep running into excellent thesis papers and research papers on beekeeping from Universities all over the US, and no doubt Canada as well. And they'd probably appreciate someone who can build custom research hives.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

Will definitely check for some extra beekeeping courses to take during my spares.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

We have a workshop. We build some of our hive equipment and enjoy doing so. If other things are going on we simply order in what we need. Unlike others may suggest we do have local suppliers and are minutes from the USA border so can take advantage of Mann Lakes free shipping (I wish more companies had free shipping).

Unless one doesn't work and/or woodworking is your spare time passion you should decide what your time is worth...at least as much as your regular pay on an hourly basis...and factor that into the cost of building your own equipment. At that rate it may not seem as inexpensive. Also for the effort of making equipment I feel it is worthwhile looking at the quality of the materials going into the project. It isn't a sound saving if the end product will have shorter lifespan due to inferior products ...or worse yet...that your bees will have a shorter lifespan due to toxic products.
Just a few points for thought.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

Right now, one CAD is equal to .91 USD, so it isn't worth it as much. And also it isn't necessary that 'home-made' equipment is inferior to store bought. In fact, you get to select your own wood and one can personalize their hive. The equipment I have made so far, is much better the the stuff I bought. Sure you can shine up a hive with frame spacers and frame rests. Through in some $100 paint and it will last longer, but I prefer recycling my equipment. With the money one saves, you can replace you hive parts at least three times, if not more. JMHO


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Default Re: Why doesn't everybody make their own equipment? 

Simple answer: TIME.

Second answer: Some people don't have the skill or the equipment to do it properly.


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## kingd (Oct 31, 2013)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Default Re: Why doesn't everybody make their own equipment?
> 
> Simple answer: TIME.
> 
> Second answer: Some people don't have the skill or the equipment to do it properly.


 Thats my answer,except I have more time than money and I have the equipment.
Now if I had more money,I would be buying all my stuff because I'm lazy.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Nice job!:thumbsup: Nothing like making your own stuff!


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## larrybeach (May 25, 2013)

Looks nice, I wish lumber prices was not so high here. A 1x12x12 cost 17.99 here before tax! I bought a pt 2x6x12 for my deck last week at 8.27. About a year and a half ago I bought 1 for 4.99.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

larrybeach said:


> Looks nice, I wish lumber prices was not so high here. A 1x12x12 cost 17.99 here before tax! I bought a pt 2x6x12 for my deck last week at 8.27. About a year and a half ago I bought 1 for 4.99.


Larry,
Just curious, where are you getting these prices. Since I've started building my equipment, I've done a little shoping around. The local mom and pop lumber yards seem to be literally more that twice as cheap as Lowe's and Home Depot, Some boards will be 1/3 the price. The big guys are convenient, but you pay a price for it.
THe other thing that some will do, but I haven't bothered with yet, is get a quote from someone else...then have Home Depot beat it by 10%. It's my understanding that's their policy, and they will do it.


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## Cub (Feb 14, 2013)

I have built 26 mediums for around $1 each, because of a nice batch of free lumber. After seeing the prices of 1x8s, it's hard to justify buying low quality lumber for $8.50 each when Valley Bee Supply has them for the same price in a better grade.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Pannu, 
I don't know if you know about it, but there's a supplier (Beeline) in Rochester, WA near Olympia....MUCH closer than Winnipeg.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't much cheaper FOB Langley, even with whatever duty is imposed at the border.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I built deep boxes today and it only cost me about $3.50 assembled 

I can't buy the wood for twice that amount...


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I've gotten sticker shock on 1" thickness boards from Home Depot and Lowes, too. And steel rods and bars are priced beyond all reason as well. Most of their 1" stock is supposed to be a "select" grade sold for shelves and trim applications, to people who probably don't use much and don't buy enough to know better.

Bees don't care about the occasional knot. They would be happy with a hollow tree.

We have local lumber mills which produce good boards cheaply ... unfortunately they're oak, which would be a beast to work and does not weather well. The tulip poplar is softer and pretty, but the bees like it better if you leave it standing.


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## Hautions11 (Jun 20, 2013)

The problem with the box stores is the 10% deals. I have a freind that works at one, and they watch each other's lumber prices every day. Tools and other items are different brands between the stores, so they do not have to honor 10% off. I had a Lowes person argue that their USED RR ties were different then Menards, no 10% off. The manager overoad in my favor. I think they both stay High $ and the little guys have cheaper lumber. Like others have said, I make my stuff because I like too. I did my first box joints last week. Do you REALLY need them? Not really, but they were fun to make and they look nice. I used cedar that I found locally on CL.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Because me is lazy, and have other things to do , not to mention it takes tools. I do try to build everything except hive bodies though.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

I understand everybody's time constraints. I love to make my own equipmment because it is fun and rewarding. With 5 minutes to make one box, I can get a 100 done in one Saturday. 
Also, the lumber yard began arguing with me because they had given the 'wrong' price for the boards on the email. I won at the end and took two large pallets.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

For some, making woodenware is not enjoyable and seen as work. For others, it's enjoyable and better than working bees when it's hot out!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> better than working bees when it's hot out!

Or, making woodenware in the _winter _- in a WOOD heated shop - is a nicer alternative than one of the _outdoor _projects on the list.


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## ordy28 (Sep 10, 2013)

Your boxes look good. But to answer the subject line question and to re-iterate what Barry the Moderator said, some just don't enjoy wood working. That is me. I just don't enjoy doing it and I have a fellow down the road a piece that sells me deeps for $12. Mediums for $10. All finger joints. That's worth it for me to buy from him and not have to labor over the saw. I did build my own TBH since it looked simple and I built it for about $60, so I did save and it was okay on the fun scale. But yea, I just don't enjoy the woodworking. I believe there are folks with that gift to look at something and can picture it in dimensions and measurements and just jump right in. But not me. I have to study and think and re-plan and by that time it is no fun. I am going to put together my own NUCs this weekend using the drawings from here on BS, so wish me the best. I'm going to need it.....


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

pannu96 said:


> With the money one saves, you can replace you hive parts at least three times, if not more. JMHO


You're right, I scavenge all my material for my wooden ware. Now because I haven't had to buy anymore staples, glue etc. than what I bought last fall I've built 60 some boxes, nucs and queen castles, painted and assembled. Just an estimate but I think I have her down to about $1.50 per box. I even scavenge my paint.
As for home made equipment being inferior I subscribe to M. Quinby's philosophy:_ "I will say that the bees will not pay a cent towards extra expenses, they will not do a whit more labor in a painted house, then if it was thatched with straw." 
_


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

pannu96 said:


> I understand everybody's time constraints. I love to make my own equipmment because it is fun and rewarding. *With 5 minutes to make one box*, I can get a 100 done in one Saturday.
> Also, the lumber yard began arguing with me because they had given the 'wrong' price for the boards on the email. I won at the end and took two large pallets.


*** emphasis added*

pannu,
5 minutes to make a box???

Have you actually put a clock on that? That seems pretty ambitious!

Let's see...
You have to cut four boards to length (front, back, and two sides)
You have to make 6 router or Dado cuts (both sides of your rabbet joint, front and back, and your two frame rest)
You have to cut 4 hand holds
You then have to apply glue to 4 rabbet joints, assemble, check for square, and you say you nail, staple and screw.
Not to mention....they still have to be painted!

I'm not saying it can't be done in five minutes...I'm just wondering how long someone could maintain that pace and keep all 10 fingers?


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

for the same reason people dont make their own cheeseburger......convenience.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Moots said:


> I'm not saying it can't be done in five minutes...I'm just wondering how long someone could maintain that pace and keep all 10 fingers?


Ah! the enthusiasm of youth, reminds me of a life lesson I heard:
A young bull and an old bull were on a hill over looking a herd of cows. The young bull says," Let's run down there and service a couple of them cows." and the old bull says" No son let's walk down there and service them all."


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

A big question in this choice is, what is your intended use?

If you do a lot of woodworking and have the tools, particularly if you run a lot of hives, the setup time is the same to do 1000 pieces as it is to do one. And if you need to keep busy all winter, that problem can be taken care of.

On the other end, if you are making hives for your garden, maybe you want really fine-looking hives. Just a few, but furniture-grade beauties. You could click on a Legacy ad, but if you enjoy making furniture, and you spoil your pet bees, making really nice hives could be a joy in itself.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

It runs faster if you do many at a time. I might make a video tonight on how I make them. 1 minute to trim the boards down to size, a minute to cut the pieces, a minute to cut in the grooves, and two minutes to assemble and set the blades.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

They were selling a 1x 12 x 12' Mahogany board for 50$. Too much for me!!


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

pannu96 said:


> It runs faster if you do many at a time. I might make a video tonight on how I make them. 1 minute to trim the boards down to size, a minute to cut the pieces, a minute to cut in the grooves, and two minutes to assemble and set the blades.


However long it takes you, you've made some nice boxes and it sounds like you're having fun. In the end that is probably the most important thing. Oscar Wilde said it best: “Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.”


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

Making 10-20 of something isn't too bad, but 100's of 1000's of something will flat out make you loco. 

Besides with the same skill level and tools it takes to make bee equipment, you could be spending your time making furniture. :scratch:


Don


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## CajunBee (May 15, 2013)

I build everything but frames as well. The combination is right....free cypress, a few tools, wet and cold weather, and a little time.


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## CraigB (Mar 6, 2014)

I agree... about five minutes per box with lap joints... when doing a fair quantity.
I rip all my pieces to size, cut to length, route the rabbets, route the handholds, glue, predrill and screw (2 screws per joint on mediums - 3 per deep).
I am a builder, so when my tools aren't being used for work, I bang out a bunch of hive parts.
Here in NH, about the cheapest I can get a select 1x12 is $1 a foot. Deeps give me leftovers for either inner cover or top cover bands. Mediums give me left overs for either feeder boxes (4 1/2" high) or bottom board, slatted racks, etc. Very little waste. Short cuts become nuc ends.
Most of my top covers, inner covers and bottom boards use plywood scraps left over from jobs.
Even though I work with wood all day every day... I still enjoy making my own bee equipment. Its the painting of the bee equipment I'm not as fond. But, I use "oops" paints for $5 a gallon and it keeps it cheap.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

I have thought of another reason why, I could not part with my fingers, but I suppose they could be treated.


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## Birdman (May 8, 2009)

I have about 10 minutes in a nuc , that is with changing over table saw. I got a new router table which should cut change over time out, so 5 minutes is possible


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

pannu96 said:


> It runs faster if you do many at a time. I might make a video tonight on how I make them. 1 minute to trim the boards down to size, a minute to cut the pieces, a minute to cut in the grooves, and two minutes to assemble and set the blades.


Handholds???


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Phoebee said:


> My Alma Mater, Va Tech does. I was up at Penn State last fall ... they're heavily into it. I keep running into excellent thesis papers and research papers on beekeeping from Universities all over the US, and no doubt Canada as well. And they'd probably appreciate someone who can build custom research hives.


So depending on when you were in school, you either had John Amos or Rick Fell for the bee biology and beekeeping classes. I took classes at the local YMCA from John Amos in '73 and '74, and I am sitting in on Rick Fell's class this semester. Always something to learn.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

rkereid said:


> So depending on when you were in school, you either had John Amos or Rick Fell for the bee biology and beekeeping classes. I took classes at the local YMCA from John Amos in '73 and '74, and I am sitting in on Rick Fell's class this semester. Always something to learn.


Wow, both names sound familiar, but I didn't take bee biology. I remember R. B. Holliman for parasitology, Dr. Young (Yongue?) for symbiosis. But I read a thesis from a young woman there within the last month or so ... it is clear they're on the bee case. Plus I think they were setting up a Master Beekeeper program to go with their Master Gardener program. I think they let that lapse, but another outfit is setting up the Master Beekeeper program in Virginia.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

Moots said:


> Handholds???


It's up to you, I occasionally just use 1 x2's but primarily cut handholds out with my radial arm saw. Depends on my mood! It will take approximately 1- 2 minutes, depending on the blade quality for all four pieces. If you set up a jig and do many together, the process is much faster. When I build hives, say 75, I set the jig for the small piece and then again for the longer piece. I do agree that it takes much longer when you complete one box and then restart for the next one.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

pannu96 said:


> It's up to you, I occasionally just use 1 x2's but primarily cut handholds out with my radial arm saw. Depends on my mood! It will take approximately 1- 2 minutes, depending on the blade quality for all four pieces. If you set up a jig and do many together, the process is much faster. When I build hives, say 75, I set the jig for the small piece and then again for the longer piece. I do agree that it takes much longer when you complete one box and then restart for the next one.


pannu,
I also have a jig and do my handholds on my radial arm saw...that wasn't the point of my "handholds???" reply. My point was, you roughly outlined all your procedures for building a box to show how you build a box in 5 minutes....My point was, handholds weren't mentioned. Which, not to beat a dead horse, but brings us back to me questioning the accuracy of a "5 minute per box" average. 

I certainly understand the concept of economies of scale and realize building 100 boxes won't take 100 times longer than building one box. However, I also understand the fact that you are not a robot, and during the course of building "X" number of boxes, you will have breaks, moments of downtime, and other distractions, all of which take time.... 

So....Not a big deal one way or the other, but my point was, at the end of the day, while it may feel like a five minute average per box, in actuality, it's probably not really a five minute average.

I'll give you an analogy...I use to do a lot of cycling, When I'd go for a bike ride for a couple of hours... It would seem like every time i'd look down at my cycling computer, I'd be doing 20, 21, or 22 miles per hour. So "in my mind", after the ride, I'd think, "Wow! we probably averaged about 21 miles per hour". The reality is that when I'd download the data from my cycling computer, we had truly averaged somewhere around 18 or 18.5 MPH's. I think it's human nature to kind of gloss over, or not realize the significance that a slow down here and there has on an "average". 

Just for the fun of it, put an actual clock on it! Next time you build boxes, pick a number, I don't care if it's 1 box, 1,000 boxes, or anywhere in between. Start a stop watch when you enter your workshop, when you finish the last box, and walk out your workshop, stop the stopwatch... Divide total minutes worked by number of boxes completed. If it's TRULY a 5 minutes per box average or below, I'd be shocked!


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

These boxes with the dado took me about 8 minutes each, I made a total of 50. 




and whenever I switch back to the rabbet joints, I will note the time more accurately


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## Cedar Ridge Bees (May 29, 2011)

I bought 10ea 1x8x10's for $99. locally and spent three hours in the shop and made 16 mediums, dovetailed and hammered together. I glue the handholds on the outside (easier for me to handle). Deeps are slightly longer as there are more dovetails. I also bought a shear from harbor freight and a box and pan break from ebay and do all the sheet metal also. the only thing i buy are frames assembled from Mann Lake. My wife however would like me to work on a cabinet for her instead!

Kent


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

painted


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

our club does a bulk order and supers are $6.50 and deeps run around $8. I'll put my time into tops and bottoms.


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## Connor (Jul 1, 2010)

I don't really find making the supers all that cost/time effective but I try and make all of my bottoms, tops, and inner covers now. If you wait for free shipping times and sales then order in quantity the savings on supers are pretty slim.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Lack of time, lack of a workshop, lack of tools, lack of experience... All of which are worth $$$.


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

I commend you, Pannu. Do whatever makes you happy. In the end, money doesn't matter, because either you have it to spend, or you don't... either way, you can't take it with you when you depart. However, the hours you spend happy on this earth, there is no way to measure or quantify those.

I bought two 8-frame deeps and supers. I built several 8-frame supers from pine, less than $4 per box. Today, I bought 10 cypress boxes unassembled from a guy who no longer keeps bees (10-frame supers, I have to cut them down to 8-frame) for $9 each. Twice the price of pine, but cypress rocks, very flat wood, no painting needed. If I ever get a great deal on wood (yes, my local mom-n-pop rocks vs. the box stores), I will buy a bunch. 

Pine cups pretty badly. If so, spray the concave side with water, lay it on concrete in the sun, and you can nearly watch it flatten it out. Or just forget it for a few hours, come back when it's flat, and put a few together. I clamp each box up for an hour, and with only two square clamps, it's slow work. But with single-rabbet sides or box joints, clamps are not as critical. Have been using a brad air nailer with double-rabbet joints, but now thinking about the skinny, square-drive screws on a single-rabbet joint. Box joints are much stronger, but you are unlikely to repair a box if one part goes bad (I use Titebond 3 plus brads/screws), whereas a single-rabbet joint is simple to repair/replace.

Yeah, working with wood takes a special person, just as it does with keeping bees. Not every one wants to keep bees. Even fewer want to keep bees and build their own wood stuff. Fewer still work a full-time job, keep bees, and make their own stuff. Me? I am that loony guy who has a full-time job, raises chickens, keeps bees, builds his own boxes, bottoms, tops, frames, assembles all of that, and STILL has time to drink a couple gins before bed. The cypress stuff I bought today? Spares, for that time when I don't feel like cutting and putting together my own boxes. I'll take a shortcut and drink 3 gins!


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## KILLERBEE (Apr 23, 2014)

Great looking boxes! I build my own with new wood and 1 x 12's that I get from local manufacturing businesses that ship and receive their products in crates. They will usually give them away, because otherwise they cut them up to throw in a dumpster. The ones I get are all new and used once for new clean material.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I finally loaded up an air nailer I bought last year for interior trim, and knocked together a small shelter for a fence charger. Works OK. I have most of the rest of what I'd need. Now to look for a supply of affordable wood.


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

My Bostitch trim nailer works great! I use 5/8" brads for frames, and 1-5/8" brads for boxes. I am amazed at the holding power of those little things when trying to pull apart stuff. Add some Titebond III, and you have a SOLID connection.


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## Sonoramic413 (Aug 10, 2013)

Colino said:


> Ah! the enthusiasm of youth, reminds me of a life lesson I heard:
> A young bull and an old bull were on a hill over looking a herd of cows. The young bull says," Let's run down there and service a couple of them cows." and the old bull says" No son let's walk down there and service them all."


LMAO- my dad has told me that saying for as long as i can recall..Although "service" isn't the word he uses- he's a colorful fellow.

My philosophy is influenced by being a machinist. If I need only one item and it is not expensive i simply buy it. All the setup and cleanup time is in the first piece so it is less expensive to simply buy one when you factor in your time. If i need, lets say 10 pieces, then i make it as the time drops dramatically on subsequent pieces.
This of course doesn't matter if you are doing it because you enjoy woodworking anyway- i make mesquite furniture as a hobby and rarely make copies.


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## dr4ngas (Mar 19, 2014)

yes, the president of the Norfolk Beekeeping Association I think is running the master beekeeping program for Virginia.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Pannu..I noticed you use 1 screw top and bottom...is that enough to prevent warping and to hold the box solidly.
You why everyone doesn't make their own equipment. My daughter started making all our equipment..including frames. After a very short while it looses it's appeal. Before long it is incredibly boring. It is fun to make a few to be able to say "I did it" but for some there are other things they would rather be doing or..if they work...it makes more sense to work to more $ and spend a fraction of it on bee equipment. If you like your work it is even better.
For those who would rather be making boxes...good on ya


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

KILLERBEE said:


> Great looking boxes! I build my own with new wood and 1 x 12's that I get from local manufacturing businesses that ship and receive their products in crates. They will usually give them away, because otherwise they cut them up to throw in a dumpster. The ones I get are all new and used once for new clean material.


Sheesh, throwing away useful lumber ought to be a crime.

One plant at Rockwell Collins out in Iowa had one employee who could not stand waste. He volunteered to run a recycling program, and the company gave him a loading dock area. They have incentives to go green so it worked for them. It became the model for the whole corporation. He even found a taker for the foam-in-place packing: somebody makes archery targets from it. 

His secret: beyond the obvious electronics recycling, paper, plastic, just post the materials on Craig's List. There's someone in need of almost every waste material.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

WBVC said:


> Pannu..I noticed you use 1 screw top and bottom...is that
> to prevent warping and to hold the box solidly.
> You why everyone doesn't make their own equipment. My daughter started making all our equipment..including frames. After a very short while it looses it's appeal. Before long it is incredibly boring. It is fun to make a few to be able to say "I did it" but for some there are other things they would rather be doing or..if they work...it makes more sense to work to more $ and spend a fraction of it on bee equipment. If you like your work it is even better.
> For those who would rather be making boxes...good on ya


Ya, I use a lot of glue and put 3 screws on the ends.The screws are my clamps and the glue holds it together. I don't really have a real job ( I am 17) so I guess it would be more economical for an older individual with a job to work and buy them.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Heck, I know a couple of people who make hives for a living. So you DO have a job!


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## Beeonefarms (Nov 22, 2013)

Amen


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't mind building boxes when what I want isn't available or if it will save me a LOT, but I can buy boxes already cut cheaper than I can buy the lumber so why take the time, the effort and the risk. Yes, no matter how experienced you are, there is risk. I've seen a guy who had been running a table saw building cabinets for fifty years run his thumb through the saw. It only takes a split second when you are tired and not paying enough attention or you get distracted... He didn't lose the thumb because he followed good practices and the blade was only sticking up 1/8"...


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## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

been a wood worker most of my life and it's the over confidence that'll get you every time.


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

I haven't seen anywhere to buy boxes cheaper than I can make them. In my neck of the woods, I can get a stick of 8" X 16' cypress for about $23. That's about $9.09 per 8-frame medium box. Not a HUGE savings, to be sure. But a lil bit.

Of course, if I REALLY wanted to save some dough, I'd make my own honey B healthy. Hmmmmm, off to buy some lemongrass oil and spearmint oil...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>it's the over confidence that'll get you every time. 

or fatigue... or distraction...


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I spend the winter out in the garage making stuff anyway, why not make bee equipment? Sure, making frames involves a lot of repetition, but it fills the evenings when I can't work outside with something productive.

That said, if I ran a large number of hives instead of the projected dozen or so, yeah, setting up a hundred hives a year would put me off the job for sure -- vastly cheaper to buy assembled frames for that number of hives, eh?

But for a hobby, it's great fun to make them. I like my frames better than factory ones because they are thicker and stronger and are very cheap (I start with 2 x 10s and 2x6 scrap at the lumber yard) and boxes can be very cheap if you wait for and store up the "scrap" at the box stores. Have to be fairly picky about what you buy, but unless it's warped of full of knots it's about $3 a box total.

However, if you don't already have the equipment, it's not economical to make your own stuff. I've got a couple grand in the tools, you'd have to make thousands of boxes to break even, and I don't plan to do that! 

Peter


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## slimspickin (Dec 25, 2013)

Hello all I am first year keeper of the bees and all I did last winter was make wooden ware. It gives you a lot of time to think/talk to your self and contemplate what you have gotten into.
[URL="[/URL] "
[URL="[/URL]


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## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> >it's the over confidence that'll get you every time.
> 
> or fatigue... or distraction...


 or a combination. i had a friend steve that worked for me who was a master cabinet maker one day me and another employee mike were having a discussion about using the blade guard on the table saw cause mike was afraid of the blade when steve popped his head thru the door waving two hands and said "yo mike i've been doing this for 15 years i don't use the guard and i still have all 10". next day he had 9 1/2. when your afraid you pay a lot more attention to what your doing


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

slimspickin said:


> [/URL][/URL]


Tell me a little more about those tops please. Like them? No warping? Are those top pieces screwed on or nailed on? Why not from underneath (seems like more meat to bite into that way)? I have no clue what I'm talking about so don't think I'm questioning your methods, just looking to learn.

My tops are sucking right now!


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

slimspickin said:


> Hello all I am first year keeper of the bees and all I did last winter was make wooden ware. It gives you a lot of time to think/talk to your self and contemplate what you have gotten into.



Holy cow, is that all for YOU, or are you selling stuff? That's a LOT of wood work!


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

Someone help me. I have read where a 1x12x12 will make two boxes. When I add the dimensions up for two boxes I get 144.5 before the saw kerf is added in. What gives? Maybe I have a brain freeze.


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## slimspickin (Dec 25, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Tell me a little more about those tops please. Like them? No warping? Are those top pieces screwed on or nailed on? Why not from underneath (seems like more meat to bite into that way)? I have no clue what I'm talking about so don't think I'm questioning your methods, just looking to learn.
> 
> My tops are sucking right now!


Sorry for the late reply I have been super busy. I like my tops a lot they are very solid have not warped yet but it has been a super dry year. The main board is 1x pine and I cut a finger joint down the side then the side boards are dado to fit the two boards and screwed to lid and top cleats are screwed also I will try to get a better picture


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> When I add the dimensions up I get 144.5 before the saw kerf is added in. 

If you chose to make rabbet joints, with 10 frame boxes each long side could be 19.875", the short sides 16.25" - 0.75" (the rabbet), so the material for 2 boxes would be .....

(19.875+(16.25-0.75))*4 = 141.5" plus the saw kerfs


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## slimspickin (Dec 25, 2013)

Yes it is all for me I figured it is better to have more stuff than you need J.I.C (just in case). And I built alot of it from 4 ft drops from a local saw mill so this equipment was on the cheap


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

with butt joints a 12 footer will make 2 boxes. sides are 14.75 and 19.875. I usually have a 4" or so wide piece of scrap.


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> > When I add the dimensions up I get 144.5 before the saw kerf is added in.
> 
> If you chose to make rabbet joints, with 10 frame boxes each long side could be 19.875", the short sides 16.25" - 0.75" (the rabbet), so the material for 2 boxes would be .....
> 
> (19.875+(16.25-0.75))*4 = 141.5" plus the saw kerfs


Told you I couldn't add....


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## John R C (Mar 15, 2011)

Plus the average 12' board is usually an inch or two longer than exactly 12'


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

While we are on the subject.... if I used actual 1" rough cut pine, I would just add 1/2" to the side measurement to end up with the same interior measurements, correct?

Found some for .40 cents a bf. I know I would be a half an inch wider and longer, but what would be the downsiide if they were all used together? At .40 cents a bf the benefit of DIY starts to get appealing.


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## KILLERBEE (Apr 23, 2014)

.40/ bf is a good deal. Should work fine and last longer.


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## bolter (Jun 27, 2013)

I use rough cut 1 x 12" pine - double rabbat joints. I find it best to make a super from the same piece of wood as there can be slight variations in thickness between boards (1&15/16th to 2&1/16th) so you have to adjust the rabbats between boards. I also quickly sand the exterior side with rough sandpaper - don't bother with the interior. Bees seem to like them & they are lasting well.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I have been using rough cut, various widths. I push it through the planer to 7/8” (rather than the ¾”) since it is a small hobby type it takes a while to take the extra 1/8” to just put it around the berries. Keep in mind you are working against inside dimensions, not outside dimensions. You only work outside numbers for covers and bottoms. 
I like Slim’s better than mine on his tops and bottoms. I second the request for a close up so I can copy them. My edge joined hemlock are starting to come apart at the joint (tightbond II with biscuits).


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## slimspickin (Dec 25, 2013)

[/URL]
Side View
[URL="[/URL]
underside
[/URL
here the lids are in use I like the side cleats because I can prop them up for some ventilation
[URL="[/URL]


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

When making tops from solid wood you must allow the wood to move across it's width (cross grain). You can only attach cross pieces at the center -- if you attach the ends, the solid wood will shrink and expand enough to split the solid piece every time. A coupe screws near the center will be fine, but if you also put some in the ends it will crack for sure. 

Ditto for cutting boards - if the have ends, you cannot glue the whole width, just the center or the board will crack open, usually at a glue line where the stress is highest. Biscuits or dowels will do nothing to prevent this, the wood will just crack around them.

I would be worried about those covers leaking badly here because we tend to get downpours in hot weather when the wood would be most likely to be gaping open. I use telescoping cover and inner covers and cover the outer ones with aluminum flashing. No leaks.

Peter


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## slimspickin (Dec 25, 2013)

Well I guess I will go back to the drawing board I only made 150 of these lids and on the rain issue I can't even remember the last rain we have gotten here. I like the telescoping tops but my pocket book and fingers don't like making them


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

I like them. It is not cost effective for me to buy telescoping tops since I want to expand next spring. I am going to use the design and add some 1/8" rubber sheeting to the top to water proof. Not fancy, but I believe it will be functional. That or either invest in a sheet metal break. I kind of like free , though.


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## KILLERBEE (Apr 23, 2014)

I have added 2" wide, 3/4" strips to both sides of the migratory tops you show and they last pretty good in the heavy storms here in NE OK. Kinda makes them into telescoping tops and it protects the edges of the wood.


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## KILLERBEE (Apr 23, 2014)

Scpossum; I have made sheet metal covers from 20" galvanized flashing. I don't have a brake either, but just hang the edge off of my shop table and tap it down 90% with a rubber mallet. Works great!


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

Didn't try it that way. Thanks for the tip. Is there different thicknesses? I had some that seemed really thick. Bought it at Lowes in a roll and used it for NUCS. Tried to staple and bend it on the nuc lid and it did not turn out well. Didn't try hammering it with a rubber mallet.


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## KILLERBEE (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm sure there is, mine is approx. -.050? Just guessing, but it was fairly simple to bend and looks factory. I just cut the width of one flange in from the edge and fold it under as it wraps the corner. Hard to put it into words, hope it makes sense. I attach mine with 3/4" tack nails.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I edged joined all my boards together and painted. I then attached anything that goes into the cross grain with screws, slots and put it together with wet paint (Harry V). I live in an area where it rains 9 months a year and this week it hit about 98 degrees. One of the boards cupped up and left the side of the hive open. I figure I will just rip that board and glue it back together (I must have got into a hurry and missed that board).
I used tin on the plywood nuc covers. I just ‘over bend’ it on the table saw and beat the edge gently with a hammer. Force it over the plywood and sheet metal screw it into place. I remove the tin and expose the camo when I put them back out for swarm traps.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Here is a pic of the warped top. I don’t know if you can see the paint between the cleat and top. 
http://s1141.photobucket.com/user/6minz/media/warptop_zpsac04a34d.jpg.html
I also found one of the divided bottoms had checked but the lower cleats did not allow it to warp but it just checked apart. 
http://s1141.photobucket.com/user/6minz/media/warpbottom_zpsea32fb45.jpg.html
the hive was getting robbed out from the one I just split it with so I put on a good old standby plywood top with a teddy bear painted on it. With the wax and proplis in this heat it sealed tighter than a zip lock.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

Because my time is worth more money that I can save making wooden ware.

I can buy the stuff for only a couple of dollars more than I could make it. When I buy it for those couple of dollars I get assembled and painted wooden ware. Not every can bulk order materials and I have no intention of becoming a wholesaler so I can save on my own boxes. 

We cannot all be good at all things. I can troubleshoot computer systems and make more per hour than I could save making boxes. Civilizations are built on the concept of division of labor. 

If everyone made bee boxes, everyone would pay more for bee boxes.


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