# Tips for successfully splitting and multiplying



## Arlo (Sep 16, 2009)

I split my strong hive on 3/15 (early) and checked out the progress the other day. All I did was add a frame of stores and three frames of capped brood then a frame of mostly eggs. When I check on them the other day they had built queen cells and I had a least 6 capped cells. I'm going to let them do their own thing and see what I get, the issue is we have rain forecast for the next week or two so I am hoping the the emerged queen will be able to go on her mating flight. I plan on splitting this mother hive again along with another colony that is building up fairly well. No swarm cells yet but this time of year I keep a close look at my hives and hopefully catch them before they decide to go into a tree. I am hoping to get at least two Nucs out of each strong hive, the strong hives were swarms that I caught last year and did well.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

It all depends on your plan for the parent hive. The most surefire way to ensure a fast growing split is to introduce a bred queen to the split, and feed. However leaving the queen in the parent hive is not as effective in swarm prevention. It can be helped out with some checker boarding. A split that has had a bred queen introduced usually can be split again in about 6 weeks. Slightly more time than it tales for a split to raise and have a queen laying. Splitting a hive and taking the queen leaving the parent to re-queen itself works better for me as the split keeps building, and the parent hive has the resources to easily withstand re-queening. they tend to store more honey also. IMHO


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

I held back till the April first. Concerned about the cold nights here and there. Tonight we are going down to 40 again and is super humid. But ill pull the trigger Saturday and hope for the best.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Tenbears, i think i have done that and had the issue with cast swarms till the hive was too depleted to make it. Just saying. My intention is to have a harvest from the parent hive so i want to leave it strong and work with an open brood nest.


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## smokin_trout (May 27, 2014)

Before you use your best hive, watch the video in the link. If you don't watch the entire video start at the 34 minute mark. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nznzpiWEI8A


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

yikes... you guys have it good. we are expecting some snow this weekend. swarming? the bees are not flying yet.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

been very mild. we saw two dustings this winter, thats about it. I think it has been the case for most of the south


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Great video. So are 40 degree nights risky for splits? Will i need to add nurse bees to ensure enough bees in the box?


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

jcolon said:


> Tenbears, i think i have done that and had the issue with cast swarms till the hive was too depleted to make it. Just saying. My intention is to have a harvest from the parent hive so i want to leave it strong and work with an open brood nest.


I offered two scenarios. Which one die you do that resulted in Swarming and afterswarms?


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## smokin_trout (May 27, 2014)

jcolon said:


> Great video. So are 40 degree nights risky for splits? Will i need to add nurse bees to ensure enough bees in the box?


I would wait for it to get a little warmer.


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## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

I did my first splits March 8th. I took the queen, 2 frames of brood, and a frame of capped honey/pollen. Some were double deeps, some were deep over medium. All were well built up, at verge of swarming. Nucs did fine with the 3 nights of 18 degrees that came 2 days later. 

These hives had been building on fields of henbit for a couple weeks, though. My pasture/woods bees aren't near as strong, have needed fed. Have not split them despite the strong maple bloom earlier. Crazy the difference between hives 20 miles apart.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

>>>I offered two scenarios. Which one die you do that resulted in Swarming and afterswarms?

Removing the current queen and letting them make a new queen... Afterswarmed to the point of no return. Lack of experience, i didn't cull the queen cells back then.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

jcolon said:


> >>>I offered two scenarios. Which one die you do that resulted in Swarming and afterswarms?
> 
> Removing the current queen and letting them make a new queen... Afterswarmed to the point of no return. Lack of experience, i didn't cull the queen cells back then.


 If that resulted in swarming you either did not take enough bees with the queen, the hive had already begun swarm preparations before you did the split, or you left too many queen cells in the hive, The latter being the least likely in an emergency supersedure situation. My guess would be that the hive was already in swarm mode when you made the split, Once the hive has decided to swarm it is difficult to discourage them. usually a total break down of the hive is required. However taking the queen and 1/3 of the brood then destroying all but 2 or 3 of the cells and keeping it that way usually does the job. 
I use that very technique quite a bit because I want to prevent swarms and maximize my honey production. The extra colonies are a bonus. It can be very productive if the timing is right.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Is all about timing. I though doing that but concerned that with the flow almost here if i split to simulate a swarm taking the old queen they wont have a crop.


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## adg72484 (Nov 22, 2015)

I have two hives started last May that overwintered in 3 deeps. I am planning on cutting back to 2 deep brood chambers from now on so I will have plenty of drawn frames. I want to make splits of these hives but I don't want to affect honey production as I have yet to harvest any. Would it be best to wait until after our spring flow to split?


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

jcolon said:


> Is all about timing. I though doing that but concerned that with the flow almost here if i split to simulate a swarm taking the old queen they wont have a crop.


That could not be further from the truth. Once the split is made there will be a lot of maturing bees with nothing to do but harvest honey and pollen. They only need so much pollen and the bees will concentrate on socking away the nectar. I as a rule find that doing such a split on the brink of the flow result in a bumper honey crop. I believe you will find many who agree. In any event no one will argue that old queens are those most likely to swarm.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

Last year we purchased nuc that I fed overwinter and kept going. It appeared to be building queen cells in early March. I split it into two pieces but the variable weather here made me reluctant to keep the hive open long enough to do a proper inspection under all of the bees when I was in it within the last week. It swarmed out Wednesday prior to today's intended nuc split with locally originated queen cells. Blah. I hope it will be my only swarm loss, but I won't bet on it. I'm too new to see everything.

Disselkoen gives advice like Tenbears' above, that a cut-down split can improve honey production and give you a nuc or more. But if you don't time it right and the bees get around you, they can swarm out. My best colony last year swarmed out. Newbie that I was, I didn't realize it and pulled some of the Q.C.s I found to populate nucs. Then the main hive went queenless, highly probably due to me. Live and learn. I'm learning.

But in the post-analysis of this week's swarm, I see little brood (really, none) left behind and a bunch of backfilled nectar in former brood cells. Just like it says in the books! If I'd looked more carefully and had more time on my hands, perhaps I could have prevented the swarm with something fun and educational, like a Taranov split. Some other time, maybe. It's a good thing I have only a half-dozen queen cells to set up in nucs instead of a full dozen. I don't have the bees now to do a dozen. I think one of the Q.C.s is a blank, too, so that's one I may get a second chance on. Three done today, two (I think) left for early tomorrow. I stand a chance of getting done with installation before they emerge, but their schedule is not certain down to the few hour level.


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## Tavery (Jun 10, 2014)

I am buying three hives from a one year and out guy who got them from an old timer last spring. Inspected them 3 weeks ago and they were strong. Very dark large bees. Here in mid missouri we have an early flow going. I don't have new queens to make splits with. Thinking to take the old queens and make a 5 frame nuc from each hive to control swarming, leave in place of original hive to catch foragers. Take main hive to new location. Add some foundation to them and let them raise new queen. Any suggestions Tenbears?


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

jcolon said:


> I am fixing to make my first split of the season. My plan is to make a nuc out of my strongest overwintered hive, and cut out queen cells to use for making multiple splits. I have 5 hives right now. Two very strong, 2 mid strength and 1 weak which I'm feeding.
> I did this last season and did OK, but had some headaches such as hives just going down in population dramatically and even one with a laying workers.
> In your experiences, how can this be done successfully? What's a good number of new nucs to shoot for without jeopardizing the existing hives?
> 
> Thanks.


Jcolon it depends on your goals...are you wanting to make increase or do you want to requeen your existing hives.

Either way, do not make queens from any but your best hives. If you only make queens from your best, over time your queen quality will improve.

For some general advice on requeening etc. read through this link:
https://newbees101.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/week-four/

From your last season...hives dropping dramatically in population and hives developing laying workers are indications that something went awry, and can be prevented going forward. What, in your estimation, were the reasons driving these conditions?


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Tavery said:


> I am buying three hives from a one year and out guy who got them from an old timer last spring. Inspected them 3 weeks ago and they were strong. Very dark large bees. Here in mid missouri we have an early flow going. I don't have new queens to make splits with. Thinking to take the old queens and make a 5 frame nuc from each hive to control swarming, leave in place of original hive to catch foragers. Take main hive to new location. Add some foundation to them and let them raise new queen. Any suggestions Tenbears?


 You do not need to have new queens to make those splits. All you need is eggs! Bees use day old larva to make queens. They can use larva up to 4 days old but the younger the better the queen. If I have a hive that has traits that I am not happy with I will wait 6 days destroy all the cells and give them a frame from my prized hive. Or queen cells from same if I have already removed their queen. The key is in managing the queen cells, especially in the case of a hive that has begun swarm preparations. In which case you want the hive to think that it has swarmed, while at the same time leaving only enough queen cell to insure requeening without an excess. Monitoring the hive for 6 days after removing the queen ensures no additional queen cells are built. by the time the queens hatch there is no larva suitable for making queens. So Cells of the same age and of insufficient numbers to create an excess of queens prevents secondary swarms. 
It really is not as time consuming as it sounds and the experience can be invaluable to the foundation of a new beekeeper. Give it a try I think the results will please you.


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## Tavery (Jun 10, 2014)

Tenbears said:


> You do not need to have new queens to make those splits. All you need is eggs! Bees use day old larva to make queens. They can use larva up to 4 days old but the younger the better the queen. If I have a hive that has traits that I am not happy with I will wait 6 days destroy all the cells and give them a frame from my prized hive. Or queen cells from same if I have already removed their queen. The key is in managing the queen cells, especially in the case of a hive that has begun swarm preparations. In which case you want the hive to think that it has swarmed, while at the same time leaving only enough queen cell to insure requeening without an excess. Monitoring the hive for 6 days after removing the queen ensures no additional queen cells are built. by the time the queens hatch there is no larva suitable for making queens. So Cells of the same age and of insufficient numbers to create an excess of queens prevents secondary swarms.
> It really is not as time consuming as it sounds and the experience can be invaluable to the foundation of a new beekeeper. Give it a try I think the results will please you.


Thumbs up Tenbears. There was no sign of swarming and these hives had not been into for 3 years. It was not too bad but it was not pretty, cross comb and bur comb. We cleaned them up and replaced the cross comb frames with the plastic frames that came with the deal. (not liking these all plastic frames). the boxes were so old we put best we could find from the stash on hand.(used to be 5 hives now 3). No splits were attempted at this time. we did our best to get them so they could be moved in boxes that were not falling apart. 

so we will be going back with newly painted and assembled equipment, I am now thinking to do a taranov split on the two big hives since it was nearly impossible to find the queen in that mess, kind of wish I had separated the two deep boxes they are in with a queen excluder to narrow it down a bit, then just do a ' walk away' and be able to manage things more quickly, transferring egg frames and brood where it made sense for maxing honey production and getting a small start with the new queen. It just felt a little to soon to split them though with another week of rain coming our way, and foraging at a minimum because of it. 
regarding their swarm mode- There was a lot of brood and there where drones present with drone brood also in each (a frame for each I would say) I did remove and an entire drone brood frame from one of them. It was a mess and they don't need them in my estimation (I inspected the drone brood and found no mites!). 
Once again I saw no swarm prep outside of drones, the queens were still laying (but not much) and they have frames to draw. I checker boarded the most vigorous hive brood chamber to buy some time on it. they all had a little bit of honey and open nectar, plenty of pollen. there is plenty of bloom on if they can get some flying days to access it. I think the last week of rain has suppressed brooding up and swarm mode

So in short we really just did some major rearranging into better equipement in preparation to actually move them off the property of previous owner.
If I can find the queens on next trip (which I am normally good at), I plan to make the splits into the new boxes the neewbees took with them to assemble and paint, and leave those in place of the main hives. move the main hive during the day and foragers will have a home to go to (the split). Let the main hive make their new queens in their new locations (hoping there are plenty of mating opportunities for the virgins). 
And the New beekeepers will have a nuc in all new boxes (picked up later), and a honey producer with a brood break and hopefully a young new queen to start their new career with. Plus the experience of seeing these manipulations and their results (good or bad)


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