# Swarm commander: Does It Really Work?



## Bedowling

While I've never it.... I can say that I've always had luck with lemongrass oil in a piece of cotton or on paper towel seems to well. Especially if the swarm trap box has a few frames of old comb.


----------



## beesohappy

I'm curious also.


----------



## Ctothea

I just bought some. I am going to try it out this swarm season and I will let you know.


----------



## shannonswyatt

I got some as a Christmas gift. Smells a lot like straight lemon grass oil to me, so I'm sure it will work.


----------



## TPalmer

Not saying this is scientifically conclusive but I caught my first swarm in a 5 frame DCoates nuc yesterday using their spray in it. I also have a identical on next to it with just lemon grass. I'm only saying of the two the scouts chose the one with Swarm Commander sprayed in it.


----------



## beesohappy

Interesting, thank you for posting. 

As it turns out I just made up a bunch of lemongrass q-tip baggies. I may have to change my plans.


----------



## TPalmer

Ok, after the swarm moved in on Thursday in one of my nucs (which I had sprayed with Swarm Commander) in my backyard,I put another nuc box down about 15 feet from the first swarm. I also sprayed this one with Swarm Commander, doing all this on Friday. Today I looked out my back window and thought what has got my bees all worked up until I realized most of them were circling my juiced nuc. Now I still can't say it's all due to Swarm Commander but I am starting to lean that way. Luck? could be, but my other nucs in my little bee yard are using Lemon Grass only and no scout bees are looking in them. 



Here is a short video I took with them trying to get int the box
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aeaetmf8xknaw3a/20150222_152428.mp4?dl=0


----------



## shannonswyatt

I've got a bottle of it, hope I get at least one swarm with it.


----------



## KQ6AR

I'm bought some to try this year also.


----------



## kingd

Thanks for the updates,

I want to try it but it is more than I want to pay at the moment,of course I still have time here.


----------



## nobull56

I also will try it this year.

Even if it is 'Lemongrass' + it will make applying it simpler & 1oz of LG cost me $12 at the Whole Foods store.


----------



## JanO

I saw someone on FB swear by it. I'm still a little skeptical, but after reading this thread I'm starting to think about giving it a try.


----------



## shannonswyatt

Isn't it kind of new? I never heard of it until just before Christmas.


----------



## rsderrick

Hopefully you all have had a chance to try Swarm Commander. If not and you want to order a bottle I'll put it on special for you. It's typically runs $29.95 per 2oz bottle. I'll give everyone that is part of this thread a $5.00 discount. You'll only pay $24.95 and free shipping. I ran this special last months so I'm guessing some of you got the deal. The deal is off right now but use the coupon code "beesource" and get the discount. I'm only doing this for people who are participating in this thread.

IT IS NOT LEMONGRASS! It is synthesised Nasanov. I worked in the fragrance and flavor industry for years and knew we could do a better job than what was out there and we did. It is THE BEST swarm lure on the market! Early results are incredible. 

Lemongrass does work but it's not Nasanov! 

Swarm Commander WILL give you the edge. 

All the best this season! 

Don't forget the coupon code beesource.


----------



## nobull56

Thanks rsd, I got it on the 'special' last month & your shipping was fast. 

Glad to hear that it is more than LGO, but has I posted above your cost is in line with the same (or smaller) amount of LGO. I will post my experiences as the year progresses. 

Have you any advice on storage & length of time before renewing the bottle?


----------



## rsderrick

nobull56 said:


> Have you any advice on storage & length of time before renewing the bottle?


Yes. Store it in a temperature controlled environment just as you would perfume. This is basically what this product is. Nasanov Perfume. As far as refreshing your hive goes...Just check once every week and make sure you don't have bees. At the same time do a "sniff check" and make sure you still smell the lure. If you do, you are good. DO NOT OVER BAIT THE HIVE! More isn't better in this instance. Standard langs get two sprays in the inner cover and one on the entrance. Nucs get one and one. Wood pulp traps the same, 1 and 1.

If you haven't caught a swarm in a week or two DON'T Think spray more will be better because it won't. This is a very strong product.


----------



## Dunkel

I think I may try it this year. Snowed in and dreaming of spring Can I get in on the discount code?

Tried it, it worked. I let you know how it works for me.


----------



## SowthEfrikan

rsderrick said:


> Yes. Store it in a temperature controlled environment just as you would perfume. This is basically what this product is. Nasanov Perfume. As far as refreshing your hive goes...Just check once every week and make sure you don't have bees. At the same time do a "sniff check" and make sure you still smell the lure. If you do, you are good. DO NOT OVER BAIT THE HIVE! More isn't better in this instance. Standard langs get two sprays in the inner cover and one on the entrance. Nucs get one and one. Wood pulp traps the same, 1 and 1.
> 
> If you haven't caught a swarm in a week or two DON'T Think spray more will be better because it won't. This is a very strong product.


I saw this and wondered what it was. I've used Lemongrass and another lure with success. Will have to try this out. Thanks!


----------



## SowthEfrikan

Thank you so much, order 555. Obviously a lucky number!


----------



## JanO

Well, I just bit the bullet and ordered some.  I look forward to see how well it works.


----------



## odfrank

Our season is just getting underway. I have been setting out bait hives with LGO in some and Swarm Commander in others. Two Swarm Commander hives have attracted a false swarm the first day. The bait hive hosts call and report an immediate catch, but it turns out to be only a lot of scouts that dissipate. I will report as the season progresses.


----------



## lomatia

Not sure if it available in Oz. I use straight lemon grass oil.


----------



## rsderrick

shannonswyatt said:


> I got some as a Christmas gift. Smells a lot like straight lemon grass oil to me, so I'm sure it will work.


Shannon...Swarm Commander IS NOT lemongrass oil. Nasanov is made up of 7 compounds. One of those compounds resembles lemongrass, that's why lemongrass works. The goal I had in mind was to make the best swarm lure on the market by duplicating nasanov as closely as possible. I believe we made that happen and the feedback I'm getting and the testing we did show me we are right on. 

Thanks for the purchase!


----------



## beesohappy

JanO said:


> Well, I just bit the bullet and ordered some.  I look forward to see how well it works.



Same here. I got mine in three days time. I'll post how it's working as the season progresses. 

Thanks Scott


----------



## beesohappy

rsderrick said:


> Shannon...Swarm Commander IS NOT lemongrass oil. Nasanov is made up of 7 compounds. One of those compounds resembles lemongrass, that's why lemongrass works. The goal I had in mind was to make the best swarm lure on the market by duplicating nasanov as closely as possible. I believe we made that happen and the feedback I'm getting and the testing we did show me we are right on.
> 
> Thanks for the purchase!





Soooooooo.... it's synthetic lemongrass oil?

:lpf: sorry I just had to do it.

Thanks again Scott I have my fingers crossed.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Our season is just getting underway. I have been setting out bait hives with LGO in some and Swarm Commander in others. Two Swarm Commander hives have attracted a false swarm the first day. The bait hive hosts call and report an immediate catch, but it turns out to be only a lot of scouts that dissipate. I will report as the season progresses.


Can't wait.


----------



## Michael Bush

Swarm commander MAY work better (I don't know), but IF it does, it must be in proportions not in content.

To clarify:
>Nasanov is made up of 7 compounds. 
Yes:
1 geraniol (isomer of nerol)
2 nerolic acid (isomer of geranic acid)
3 (E)-citral (aka geranial) 
4 (Z)-citral (aka neral)
5 geranic acid (isomer of nerolic acid)
6 Nerol (isomer of geraniol)
7 farnesol

>One of those compounds resembles lemongrass, that's why lemongrass works.
It's not a question of resemblance. Six of the compounds in lemongrass oil and Nasonov are identical:
1 geraniol (isomer of nerol)
2 nerolic acid (isomer of geranic acid)
3 (E)-citral (aka geranial)
4 (Z)-citral (aka neral)
5 geranic acid (isomer of nerolic acid)
6 farnesol
http://www.iloveindia.com/indian-herbs/lemongrass.html
It's only missing Nerol but has the isomer geraniol which "resembles" Nerol (mirror image).

And the research says only four of them matter:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3032.1981.tb00270.x/abstract
"A 1:1:1 mixture of geraniol + nerolic acid + (E)- and (Z)-citrals was as effective as a mixture of all the seven components in equal proportions"

And those four are in Lemongrass oil.

The research, however, was doing all seven in equal proportions and the four in equal proportions. I suppose the relevant question is what proportions match Nasonov? Or what proportions are most effective? And if you got the right proportions would some of the others be relevant then? Since the computational analysis is essentially infinite (depending on how small of differences in proportion you wish o test) I would probably want to start with the actual proportions of Nasonov.


----------



## Fergus

The website shows three different methods for application. Opinions on which is the most effective? Making a wax bar looked interesting.
Thoughts?


----------



## mtndewluvr

OK - I'm in. We've got a guy who's won our bait hive challenge here in Utah for the last couple of years and it would be nice to be able to give him a little competition. I'm looking forward to doing some side-by-side tests with some queen lure (2014 laying queens that were dispatched), LGO and now the swarm commander. Should be fun!


----------



## Charlie B

I know how you feel mtn. Someone needs to topple Ollie from his swarm trap throne.

I'm going to use two 8 frame deeps stuffed with old brood comb about 20 yards apart in this sweet fishing hole I have and see which one is more effective, LGO or Swarm Commander.

It's important to use a trap that's never had LGO in it so I'm making up a new 8 frame trap 
that's never been used as a swarm trap for the Swarm Commander experiment. All my other traps have had LGO in them in the past.


----------



## JanO

mtndewluvr said:


> OK - I'm in. We've got a guy who's won our bait hive challenge here in Utah for the last couple of years and it would be nice to be able to give him a little competition. I'm looking forward to doing some side-by-side tests with some queen lure (2014 laying queens that were dispatched), LGO and now the swarm commander. Should be fun!


mtndewluvr I'm looking forward to doing some test as well. I live in a very sporadic swarm area and felt fortunate to get 3 swarms last year with LGO. I plan to set two traps in the general areas where I caught swarms last year, one with LGO, the other with Swarm Commander, and see which one tends to be more successful. Granted this may not be very scientific, but should be fun.


----------



## mtndewluvr

Charlie B said:


> It's important to use a trap that's never had LGO in it so I'm making up a new 8 frame trap
> that's never been used as a swarm trap for the Swarm Commander experiment. All my other traps have had LGO in them in the past.


Great point, Charlie! I've made up some 5-frame nucs over the winter and will use those stacked two high. All my other traps have the LGO melted into old wax just inside the entrances.


----------



## toekneepea

I didn't have luck with LGO in 2-bait hives I had put out last year... I'm going to put out a few more traps this year and may try this stuff.

Synthetic Nasanov? Very interesting.

Scott, Is Freezer Storage a possibility? My wife has banished anything bee related from the refrigerator - but I have an old chest freezer I use for beekeeping.

Tony


----------



## KQ6AR

Caught one today.


----------



## Michael Bush

Location of the trap will have more to do with success than the perfection of the bait. It will take quite a few traps over a large area to come up with meaningful data on which is better... you have to somehow eliminate "luck" from the results. Probably the BEST test would be to put out PAIRS of identical traps side by side with the only difference being the lure and see how often they prefer one or the other. And still luck may be a factor... but at least the luck of the location won't be. If someone does this, I'm sure we would all be interested in the results.


----------



## TalonRedding

Michael Bush said:


> Location of the trap will have more to do with success than the perfection of the bait.


That right there is the name of the game. :thumbsup:


----------



## odfrank

>Probably the BEST test would be to put out PAIRS of identical traps side by side

I have had the problem of Zombie swarms when placing traps side by side. I think the LGO confuses some of the bees and I will get the prime swarm in one trap and about 20 bees in a close trap. This is a picture from my Fishbox Swarm trap phase, the main swarm entered the left box and a contingent of bees entered the right box and stayed there until I shook them out and removed their box. My fishbox phase ended when I picked up a swarm, and they had eaten a large hole through the bottom of the box, and gave me a resounding stinging as I loaded them in my truck. The second photo is one test of several I have setup to compare Swarm Commander to LGO.


----------



## Charlie B

That happened to me last year too. Two traps side by side and about a third went into one trap and the queen and the other 2/3 rds. went into the other. I thought I was the luckiest keep ever until I discovered the problem.

I think as long as the traps are facing the same way, have the same elevation and are the same size with the same amount of brood frames, they don't have to be side by side. Maybe 10 feet apart?

Whatever we do won't be perfect or scientific. This sounds like a job for Thomas Seeley!


----------



## Northwest PA Beekeeper

Now guys, if we are really going to be scientific about this, I believe you need to have 3 traps - all 3 traps the same size, same height, with the same amount of drawn frames / empty frames in each one. All boxes should be in a close general area - you can't put one box under a tree in the shade and the other two in the sun. 

One box should have no scent in it(other than the drawn comb - if you use it), the other box lemongrass oil, and the other box with Swarm Commander. When putting other boxes in other areas, mix up the set up because the bees may pick a hive based on if it's on e of the end hives or the middle hive.

It might even be interesting to also mix it up by using one hive with drawn comb, and the other two hives with only foundation - one with lemongrass oil and one with Swarm Commander.

I haven't ordered any yet, but I still might. I have at least another month before swarm season is here in Northwest PA.


----------



## Charlie B

KQ6AR said:


> Caught one today.


Dan, just got my Swarm Commander in the mail. Thanks Scott! Scott also sent me a bottle of Honey-B-Gone. I know where Ollie's main beeyard is in San Mateo. What do you say we pay a midnight visit to his apiary and make use of this Honey-Bee-Gone on his swarm traps? :thumbsup:

That's the only way we'll ever beat him!


----------



## Charlie B

What are you waiting for PA, get in the game!


----------



## minz

Well I have been cleaning house on swarms here at work and thought it was pretty easy so started spreading out more. I was running back to back at the trap here at work and 0 for 5 in my other locations. I am thinking location is the key but my throw my nickels in for a try. Why is it when something is working I still want to ‘tweak’ it till its broke?


----------



## marant

OK, OK, I am convinced it is worth a shot. Ordered some yesterday. The swarm box is waiting.


----------



## Becky Jackson

Sounds like I better get some! In the past my bait hive that was the most successful is sitting right near my solar wax melter. When in use, the wax melter can be smelled from 10 feet away and brings curious bees all day. An interesting experiment might be to spray Swarm Commander in one bait box and nothing in the other and see which one wins!


----------



## Charlie B

I think anything you do with this would be fun and interesting. Like I said, you would have to have and expert like Thomas Seeley of Honey-Bee Democracy to do it right. Anyway you look at it, you may lure some pretty good size "Feral" swarms. Oh no, did I just say "Feral"?

Make sure you look for marked queens ya'll!


----------



## mhpsau

I have had three traps out for two weeks, with LGO, The only swarm I have caught was up in a tree about 50 yards from one of the traps. I guess I will succumb to the hype and try some of this product. Swarms are the only resource I use to get bees. Anything that will make it easier is still cheaper than buying pkgs.:thumbsup:


----------



## rsderrick

Charlie...I've actually caught swarms that had marked queens. All I can say is thanks!


----------



## rsderrick

KQ6AR said:


> Caught one today.


Dan do you catch it with Swarm Commander?


----------



## rsderrick

toekneepea said:


> Scott, Is Freezer Storage a possibility?


Tony...you can do that if you want. It won't hurt it. Just make sure to put in inside one or two ziplock bags. It's pretty strong stuff.


----------



## rsderrick

Charlie B said:


> I know how you feel mtn. Someone needs to topple Ollie from his swarm trap throne.
> 
> I'm going to use two 8 frame deeps stuffed with old brood comb about 20 yards apart in this sweet fishing hole I have and see which one is more effective, LGO or Swarm Commander.
> 
> It's important to use a trap that's never had LGO in it so I'm making up a new 8 frame trap
> that's never been used as a swarm trap for the Swarm Commander experiment. All my other traps have had LGO in them in the past.


Charlie...it's important that you check the hive once a week. Make sure to reapply if needed. Environmental condition can affect the longevity of the swarm commander. Keeping the bait as fresh as possible is a must.


----------



## rsderrick

shannonswyatt said:


> hope I get at least one swarm with it.


Shannon....depending on how many hives you have an how many times you reapply it could last you much longer than that. Just keep it in a temperature controlled environment.


----------



## boykinboytbh

Thanks for the code, ordered some last night!


----------



## KQ6AR

Yes it does. I have 10 traps out all with swarm commander. Normally I only catch one or two per year with lemon grass oil. All the traps have been very active, to the point its hard to tell if they moved in or not. 



rsderrick said:


> Dan do you catch it with Swarm Commander?


Charley, we might have to plan a late night trip to San Mateo. ODfranks is the swarm trap king in the SF Bay area.


----------



## odfrank

>What do you say we pay a midnight visit to his apiary and make use of this Honey-Bee-Gone on his swarm traps? :thumbsup:That's the only way we'll ever beat him! Charlie
>Charley, we might have to plan a late night trip to San Mateo. ODfranks is the swarm trap king in the SF Bay area. Dan

You are wasting your time....I have spread my traps around Concord and the Richmond district in San Francisco. Be warned...my yard is fully alarmed, videoed and the caretaker is armed.


----------



## Charlie B

You forget Ollie that I'm a retired Cop. There's a fine line between cop and criminal. Dan and I can easily breach your yard and bribe your caretaker with great tasting Golden Gate Park and Concord honey. (Much better than that San Mateo ragweed honey you sell).

I'm confident we can talk your caretaker into spraying Honey-B-Gone in all your traps once he taste our honey.:thumbsup:


----------



## newbury

mhpsau said:


> I have had three traps out for two weeks, with LGO, The only swarm I have caught was up in a tree about 50 yards from one of the traps. I guess I will succumb to the hype and try some of this product. Swarms are the only resource I use to get bees. Anything that will make it easier is still cheaper than buying pkgs.:thumbsup:


Since you are in extreme south Mississippi, and I'm in extreme North Mississippi (between Iuka and Fulton ) when can I expect swarms up here?

Regardless it sounds like I should try some also.


----------



## newbury

Oh - ordered Swarm Commander, but he's out of the $30 size.


----------



## rsderrick

newbury said:


> Oh - ordered Swarm Commander, but he's out of the $30 size.


The 2oz bottles have been restocked newbury. Sorry about that. It's been going fast.


----------



## mhpsau

newbury said:


> Since you are in extreme south Mississippi, and I'm in extreme North Mississippi (between Iuka and Fulton ) when can I expect swarms up here?
> 
> Regardless it sounds like I should try some also.


I would say that you will be seeing them at least by this next week, after all this rain moves out. Down here on the Coast we usually start seeing a few after about three days of, close to 70 degrees. It will be in the mid 70 to low 80's all next week, starting tomorrow (Sat). I have already caught one, about a week ago, and missed another a couple of days before that because I didnt have a box with me, and they were gone when I got back.


----------



## JanO

I got mine in the mail the other day. Not going to bait any traps for a few days since we have some rain coming in tomorrow, but can't wait till things dry up and start to get warm.


----------



## rwlaw

Just ordered a bottle. I had a bad year, so I have plenty of equipment to work with, I'll do some side by side testing. Old school vs the new kid on the block.


----------



## skidmld

Tried to place an order and couldn't. Has anyone else had trouble placing an order?


----------



## CubeCove

I also tried to place an order, and it wouldn't let me fill in the customer information. I might try and call them.


----------



## rsderrick

skidmld said:


> Tried to place an order and couldn't. Has anyone else had trouble placing an order?


skidmid...if you continue to have problems email me your info at scot[email protected] and I'll send you a paypal invoice. Not sure what the problems is. I haven't had anyone else report problems. Sorry you're having issues.


----------



## pahammer

skidmld,

I had the same issue with the Swarm Commander site. try the Honey-B-Gone site


----------



## minz

same here, I sent him a PM with the details of the problem, I wonder if I need a pay pal account since I have not used it in 10 years.


----------



## odfrank

Two videos of today's Swarm Commander experiment. Swarm in tree did not go to boxes with Swarm Commander or LGO. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n87cBflq8OA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ9bt7DrrTI


----------



## beesohappy

opcorn:The suspense is killing me!


----------



## Charlie B

I don't think swarms typically go back to the same beeyard that they had just swarm from do they? :scratch:

Even though it's a different box/trap you're trying to lure them too, if it's in the same location of the hive they just swarmed from, I don't believe they will go back near it.


----------



## knute

odfrank said:


> Two videos of today's Swarm Commander experiment. Swarm in tree did not go to boxes with Swarm Commander or LGO.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n87cBflq8OA
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ9bt7DrrTI


That's some good looking scout activity at your nuc hive- definitely some interest.


----------



## CubeCove

Odfrank,

Have you considered placing a swarm trap up in the tree where the swarm first gathered? Just a thought.


----------



## shannonswyatt

I'm not sure Charlie. I've heard that they want to fly away, but you often see multiple hives in abandoned buildings. It is possible they came from someplace else, but I'm inclined to think they come from the other hives in the building. I think it all comes down to the location they think is best.


----------



## odfrank

CubeCove said:


> Odfrank,Have you considered placing a swarm trap up in the tree where the swarm first gathered? Just a thought.


No, I want to live to a ripe old age, not killed falling off a ladder trying to catch $100 of bees. I have a second story deck a few feet away where I catch swarms every year, and that spot on the bench where the five frame nuc is catches swarms every years. I have set 35 so far this year and all are where I can get to them with my feet on the ground. 
I still have to get one up near Charlie's and Knute's houses.

I am in agreement that swarms want to leave their hive's proximity and fly a ways away.


----------



## Charlie B

The neighbor at my San Mateo yard just called and said she thinks a swarm has just moved into my trap there. I think I finally got one of yours Ollie.:thumbsup: Did you have a marked queen?

This particular trap was sprayed with Swarm Commander. I didn't have an LGO trap there for comparison at this particular yard. Sorry guys.


----------



## Michael Bush

>No, I want to live to a ripe old age, not killed falling off a ladder trying to catch $100 of bees.

Amen.


----------



## BeeGora

I bought some of the Swarm Commander several weeks ago and didn't have any problems ordering. Just put out some traps this weekend so we'll see if anything happens. Along this line, is it considered unethical to set a swarm trap relatively close to someone who has beehives? One of my friends has offered to let me set up one in his backyard but the neighbor who lives through the woods behind him has several hives. I don't really see a problem because if those bees swarm they're going to leave anyway and possibly end up in somebody's attic or walls. So not only am I gaining a swarm but I'm saving them from being exterminated.


----------



## skidmld

rsderrick said:


> skidmid...if you continue to have problems email me your info at [email protected] and I'll send you a paypal invoice. Not sure what the problems is. I haven't had anyone else report problems. Sorry you're having issues.


Email sent, waiting for reply. Thanks for your help

Larry


----------



## skidmld

pahammer said:


> skidmld,
> 
> I had the same issue with the Swarm Commander site. try the Honey-B-Gone site


I'll try that if I can't get an order placed through the Swarm Commander site.
Thanks for the suggestion
Larry


----------



## shannonswyatt

BeeGora said:


> ...is it considered unethical to set a swarm trap relatively close to someone who has beehives?


Last year I setup a trap, and a week or two later when driving by to check it my noticed a hive in the nearest house, not more than 300 feet away. I didn't get a swarm in that box, but I didn't move it either. If someone wants to set up hives near me the only option I have is to either to manage my hives to avoid swarms or put up better swarm traps they they did.


----------



## odfrank

Here are three new videos, notice that I start each video with "OK". Two videos are about a bait I have set up with a dead queen and queen juice next to baits with SC and LGO. Another video is about a pile of steamed frames that has a lot of scouts with no lure. This is good stuff. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9nyfktMoUU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elFwbWfBk9M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0TSFBVeOc


----------



## gww

Oddfrank
Youtube says all your new vidios are private and you have to sign in to watch. I didn't find this problim on the last two you posted. I guess I won't be watching them.
gww


----------



## odfrank

I corrected that. Thank you for helping the Old Rooster keeping things straight. I had not clicked Publish after making corrections.


----------



## odfrank

This is the first swarm caught with Swarm Commander lure. It was next to a similar trap with LGO. Combs with one season Ritecell combs, a hive that died this winter. Not the biggest, but free bees are freebies.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Here are three new videos, notice that I start each video with "OK". Two videos are about a bait I have set up with a dead queen and queen juice next to baits with SC and LGO. Another video is about a pile of steamed frames that has a lot of scouts with no lure. This is the good stuff


This should be interesting. I've never used the queen/alcohol thing. Swarm season has broken loose already down there hasn't it?


----------



## gww

odd
Oh, the sweet smell of success. I watched you vids, thanks for taking the time to do them.
gww


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Here are three new videos, notice that I start each video with "OK". Two videos are about a bait I have set up with a dead queen and queen juice next to baits with SC and LGO. Another video is about a pile of steamed frames that has a lot of scouts with no lure. This is good stuff.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9nyfktMoUU
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elFwbWfBk9M
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0TSFBVeOc


What did I tell you Dan, he hasn't even caught one yet and we're getting videos already!


----------



## odfrank

This is the hive on the left that caught my first Swarm Commander swarm. Not mine, I don't allow white hives. I set it up for one of my devotees.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> This is the first swarm caught with Swarm Commander lure. It was next to a similar trap with LGO. Combs with one season Ritecell combs, a hive that died this winter. Not the biggest, but free bees are freebies.


Is there a laying queen in that one?


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> Is there a laying queen in that one?


The host reports incoming pollen.


----------



## odfrank

Here is another dramatic video almost right out of the National Geographic series. Another LGO SCL comparison with unusual behavior. I realized later the wandering pollen bees were lost because their hive had been at the end of the row and now the SCL bait hive was at the end of the row. Video is still correcting wobble as I post.

https://youtu.be/gqgjT3UUVdA


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> The host reports incoming pollen.


Yeah but you had incoming pollen in your last video you posted but that didn't mean anything!


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Here is another dramatic video almost right out of the National Geographic series. Another LGO SCL comparison with unusual behavior. I realized later the wandering pollen bees were lost because their hive had been at the end of the row and now the SCL bait hive was at the end of the row. Video is still correcting wobble as I post.
> 
> https://youtu.be/gqgjT3UUVdA


These videos are great and everything Ollie, but could you wait until you actually catch something before we get see another one?


----------



## rsderrick

Charlie B said:


> Is there a laying queen in that one?


Congrats Charlie! Keep the good info coming!


----------



## rsderrick

Charlie B said:


> I don't think swarms typically go back to the same beeyard that they had just swarm from do they? :scratch:
> 
> Even though it's a different box/trap you're trying to lure them too, if it's in the same location of the hive they just swarmed from, I don't believe they will go back near it.


Charlie I agree with you. There may be a percentage that will stay in a yard but my experience, most don't. Mine will be 90 feet up in a poplar tree then disappear over the horizon. It wouldn't matter how much Swarm Commander or LGO I put in the hive or how many I had baited. There are OUTTA THERE!


----------



## rsderrick

KQ6AR said:


> Caught one today.


Dan did you catch it with Swarm Commander?


----------



## TPalmer

I caught two today in my bee yard also known as my back yard. I have three nucs two 5 frame and one 6 frame set up about 3 feet off the ground near my other hives. Last Sunday I sprayed into the front entrance of the three nucs with some of the spray going into the hive. Monday I noticed some activity and today my two 5 frame nucs have about two frames of bees each. Didn't look to long so I don't know if the queens are in the house. This will make 4 swarms caught with me spraying Swarm Commander instead of using LGO. Now my 6 frame nuc has activity so who knows maybe tomorrow I'll have another one.


----------



## Charlie B

TPalmer,

Very nice, send pics if you can!

Congrats! :thumbsup:


----------



## KQ6AR

Yes I have about 14 boxes out with Swarm Commander in them. Some of my bait hives are out in the cherry bloom, where 100's of commercial hives are right now.



rsderrick said:


> Dan did you catch it with Swarm Commander?


Yes Charley, you called it on the video's!


----------



## Charlie B

Dan,

Ollie is used to being the head Rooster when it comes to swarms. Expect plenty more movies and and also a lot more bragging.

Ollie the head swarm rooster


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> These videos are great and everything Ollie, but could you wait until you actually catch something before we get see another one?


A bit jealous of my cinematography talent, ehhh?


----------



## odfrank

Here Charlie, this one is for you. It was filmed by Bee Whisperer Bob in San Jose, who traps numerous baits for me every year. The bees chose the Swarm Commander lure box over the LGO box. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aHGzsVn7GY


----------



## beesohappy

odfrank said:


> Here is another dramatic video almost right out of the National Geographic series. Another LGO SCL comparison with unusual behavior. I realized later the wandering pollen bees were lost because their hive had been at the end of the row and now the SCL bait hive was at the end of the row. Video is still correcting wobble as I post.
> 
> https://youtu.be/gqgjT3UUVdA




I'm noticing the same kind of activity in one of my swarm traps also. They hang around during the day like they own the place but come evening time their gone. This is a lot different then any other kind of swarm activity I've seen.


----------



## Michael Bush

Keep us posted. I'd love to know if SCL works significantly better than LGO.


----------



## Charlie B

This is an LGO swarm from yesterday on the church rooftop where our club meets. This was one of our members, not mine. No SCL for comparison at this trap location.


----------



## shannonswyatt

I think he needs a bigger box!


----------



## odfrank

Two more LGO/SCL bait hive comparisons set up today. Two Warre hives in suburbia, and nuc box and hive out in country at a sculpture farm. Hives are set in unused sculpture circle.


----------



## odfrank

Here is another video for Charlie starting with "OK". It is about a swarm today passing up various baited traps and going into a pile of half cleaned frames. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpEH61fSbWI

This is the swarm as I transferred them from the half clean frames onto foundation, three pounds or so:


----------



## shannonswyatt

Frank, the video is private.


----------



## TPalmer

beesohappy said:


> I'm noticing the same kind of activity in one of my swarm traps also. They hang around during the day like they own the place but come evening time their gone. This is a lot different then any other kind of swarm activity I've seen.


I also have this happening. Some even act as guard bees.


----------



## odfrank

shannonswyatt said:


> Frank, the video is private.


Corrected. I download them and then run a wobble correction program, which locks them.


----------



## TPalmer

The box that had bees just hanging out for a couple days now has a swarm setting up shop now. I got home from work around 4:00 o'clock and walked out to the bee yard to check that box. Yep about 8 bees hanging out in front nothing new. Went inside and about and hour latter I thought to take another look. Maybe a small swarm. Pop the lid and surprise a fairly large swarm full of bees on at least 4 frames. I sprayed 4 boxes with SC and caught 4 swarms. Is it working well something is working I'm out of boxes and space to put them


----------



## odfrank

Are you sure that is a swarm? Looks thin. A good catch looks like this:





TPalmer said:


> The box that had bees just hanging out for a couple days now has a swarm setting up shop now. I got home from work around 4:00 o'clock and walked out to the bee yard to check that box. Yep about 8 bees hanging out in front nothing new. Went inside and about and hour latter I thought to take another look. Maybe a small swarm. Pop the lid and surprise a fairly large swarm full of bees on at least 4 frames. I sprayed 4 boxes with SC and caught 4 swarms. Is it working well something is working I'm out of boxes and space to put them


----------



## Robinhood & 1Maineguide

I know the Honey-B-Gone works very well. Bought it last fall and it really works. Will try the swarm lure this spring. Good products. And very good customer relations. Called and he answered all my questions.


----------



## minz

It does look like the website is fixed. I was able to place an order. With all of the trees 30 days early I had better get on the ball and get some traps in the trees!


----------



## TPalmer

odfrank said:


> Are you sure that is a swarm? Looks thin.




Thin in may be compared to your obese catch but a catch is a catch







I would be proud to show that one off.


----------



## beesohappy

Well they finally moved in!

I went by yesterday and noticed bees in between the nuc and the wall so I cracked the lid and sure enough a huge swarm finally moved in. There's so many bees I think I need to move them into a 10 frame box. 

Disclaimer: I can't honestly say that the swarm commander is what caught them. It seems to me that I may have used some lemongrass oil in it prior to swarm commander. I'll set up a test of nucs at my buddies place and we'll see what comes of it.


----------



## Charlie B

Ollie's just bragging as usual T, congrats!:thumbsup:


----------



## Brad Bee

I ordered a 2 oz bottle today. If I catch ONE swarm in a trap it will work better than LGO did for me last year.


----------



## rsderrick

odfrank said:


> Are you sure that is a swarm? Looks thin. A good catch looks like this:


Glad you are doing so well ODFrank. Swarm Commander is a premium swarm lure that folks will be using for years to come. The reason I created this product of to give folks like you the edge when catching swarms. Thanks for taking time to upload the photos!


----------



## rsderrick

TPalmer said:


> The box that had bees just hanging out for a couple days now has a swarm setting up shop now. I got home from work around 4:00 o'clock and walked out to the bee yard to check that box. Yep about 8 bees hanging out in front nothing new. Went inside and about and hour latter I thought to take another look. Maybe a small swarm. Pop the lid and surprise a fairly large swarm full of bees on at least 4 frames. I sprayed 4 boxes with SC and caught 4 swarms. Is it working well something is working I'm out of boxes and space to put them


4 For 4 with Swarm Commander. You can't beat that. If you had to buy them as packages you'd have paid about $400. You got them for $29.95. GOOD JOB!!!


----------



## WBVC

I have no idea if it will work. I have lived in the same place for years. Except for a swarm I saw leave my own hive I have never seen or caught a swarm. If I get a swarm in a swarm box this year I will then be convinced it works


----------



## odfrank

rsderrick said:


> Glad you are doing so well ODFrank. Swarm Commander is a premium swarm lure that folks will be using for years to come. The reason I created this product of to give folks like you the edge when catching swarms. Thanks for taking time to upload the photos!


That picture is from years ago, caught with LGO.


----------



## rsderrick

odfrank said:


> That picture is from years ago, caught with LGO.


Sorry about that OD. The thread is getting a bit confusing.


----------



## rsderrick

I've had some recent quirks with the Swarm Commander website. Most everyone that has had problems ordering seems to have problems putting in the state they are in. I'm thinking it might have something to do with the age of the browser that is being used. If you are having problems ordering and and want to order direct, call 803-754-7577 and I'll take you order the old fashion way. If I don't get to the phone please leave a number and I'll get back to you ASAP. Sorry for any inconvenience. Thanks to everyone for all the support.


----------



## Charlie B

Caught today with Swarm Commander and old brood comb inside. The neighbor, not a beekeeper didn't want to get too close. Sorry for the photo. I couldn't get to it today.


----------



## sc-bee

Scott web page would not take credit card and nave no pay pal or at least no idea of old settings. FB message sent.

Steve


----------



## TPalmer

Charlie B said:


> Caught today with Swarm Commander and old brood comb inside. The neighbor, not a beekeeper didn't want to get too close. Sorry for the photo. I couldn't get to it today.


Good catch and easy to get to


----------



## rsderrick

sc-bee said:


> Scott web page would not take credit card and nave no pay pal or at least no idea of old settings. FB message sent.
> 
> Steve


Steve...you don't have to have a paypal account to use Paypal. You only need a credit card. Anyway...I texted you earlier today buddy.


----------



## rsderrick

TPalmer said:


> Good catch and easy to get to


FANTASTIC!!!! Love to see free bees! Congrats!!


----------



## odfrank

I set up a six or seven hive swarm lure comparison using new Ritecell foundation and two drawn combs in each box. One had five drawn PF-100s. Three were Swarm Commander lure, three were LGO and the one with PF's was both lures with a queen and queen juice. Within a few hours a swarm came in, divided up between two boxes, stung me multiple times and at the end was a measly two frame swarm. Here are multiple videos for your viewing pleasure. 

http://youtu.be/rXUZzLVpnyA
http://youtu.be/xEwTLLwtQYk
http://youtu.be/vk8Qu-m7VnQ
http://youtu.be/iT_3jRkUOGI
http://youtu.be/cpRayXv7rRI


----------



## nobull56

Nice set of videos. How do you get so many swarms come to you in what looks like all concrete? Is there beekeepers that don't care all around you? Or do you just let your hives swarm when they want?

Sorry for the 'Dumb' questions, but I'm in Lake County just North of you & the only time I've seen the numbers you are showing was when a neighbor let 100 hives park with no water nor feed.


----------



## Dan83

Great videos from odfrank on this thread. I noticed he is using rite cell foundation and dark comb in his traps. Has this been working out well? I set mine up with one or two dark combs and the rest foundation less frames for a sense of empty space. If foundation works well I would convert to that. I would rather not have to worry about them drawing straight if I can't get there right away. I will follow this thread, who knows maybe I'll end up buying a bottle of this stuff.


----------



## odfrank

I used the Ritecell because I got it in a trade and don't normally us it in my hives. I did catch one on Ritecell last year.


----------



## Charlie B

That's one of the funniest video series I think I've ever seen. I just love the following lines:

"That's it?" and "Very disappointing" and "Oh, they're stinging me in the lip and the ear" and
"I don't know if it's worth making this video for you folks"

More videos please, right Dan?


----------



## SallyD

I caught swarm yesterday using Swarm Commander. I have had two traps set out for a few weeks now. This past weekend the bees were constantly checking them out. The trap that a swarm moved into is on a small second story balcony ( the other is on some landscape timbers about 3 feet off ground). I can't have the bees there permanently because it is a very small balcony and the only access to this balcony is through the house. How long should I leave them there before I move them? 2 -3 weeks? I am going to have to move the hive through the house to get it out in the yard....kinda scary! But I am so excited I caught this swarm- I really think having it on the second story level helped along with the SC.


----------



## beesohappy

You can move it right away, it should be fine. If you move it to a yard with other bees then give it a frame of open brood from another hive and they'll stay put.

As far as physically moving it, can you lower it down to the ground with rope? It won't be heavy since it won't have honey in it.


----------



## Charlie B

Just seal it up at night, ratchet strap together if they're regular boxes, then move through the house. If you have a screen bottom board, seal the entrance with duct tape. If you have a solid board, roll up some window screen and stuff it in the entrance.


----------



## KQ6AR

I must confess, I do enjoy them.


----------



## odfrank

Here are pics of the swarm shown in video on post #102. I moved them today from the bait box into a a hive. Solid brood, bees and honey wall to wall in about two weeks, quiet yellow bees and queen. I would value this catch at $200+ compared to package bees, first catch paid for my bottle of Swarm Commander lure. Keep in mind however that this site has caught in previous years with lemon grass lure, 4, 10 and even 13 bait swarms a year.


----------



## Charlie B

Nice catch Ollie!


----------



## GarfieldBeek

Have caught two swarms in the past week using fiber traps and Swarm Commander. I don't know if they would have been caught with LGO or not but I will use Swarm Commander again. Also, I had an empty Deep set up for a trap for two weeks with Swarm Commander per instructions. No luck. Put up a fiber trap right beside it with SC. 24 hours later about 5 pounds of bees moved in.


----------



## snapper1d

I ordered a bottle of Swarm Commander yesterday evening.I went to the store and had my bottle of lemongrass oil sitting in the seat and it came out behind me and hit the concrete and the whole parking area there smells like lemongrass oil now.


----------



## shannonswyatt

I dropped a bottle of LGO in the kitchen the other day. Thank god it didn't break, my wife would have killed me!


----------



## odfrank

At about four of the competition sites I have set up, Swarm Commander Lure versus Lemon Grass Oil, the first swarm has chosen the SCL hive. This is two identical setups in an apiary on the stands, the SCL on the right caught the first swarm in. There were scouts today on the LGO trap.


----------



## odfrank

Lemon grass oil works also, this site catches a swarm almost every year with lemongrass oil, this year in nine days after placement.


----------



## Charlie B

Here are my two swarm together side by side, one LGO and the other SCL. Both doing well with big fat queens and a good laying pattern.


----------



## SouthTexasJohn

Wow.


----------



## snapper1d

On an out yard I have a trailer where I store empty boxes.When leaving a couple days ago I stopped and gave one of them a shot of Swarm Commander and drove off.Well I went in to check the out yard and low and behold that box had a swarm in it! Well the Swarm Commander just paid for itself! Now I need to get swarms in the other boxes I put out yesterday.A friend of mine told me to set up a couple by his grocery store.Man there were bees coming in and checking the boxes before I could even get them out of the truck.I will probably get swarms there as there is an old guy in his upper 80's that had around 15 hives at his house a little over a quarter mile away and he cant take care of them now so there will be plenty of swarms there.Then there is his buddy on the other side of town about the same distance away who is about the same age and shape with hives.


----------



## Charlie B

Good plan Snapper!:thumbsup:


----------



## odfrank

The results of the comparison in post # 91, the LGO hive caught the swarm, the SCL hive has scouts.


----------



## rsderrick

Glad to hear that snapper1d! The successes have been great to hear about this year. Hope you catch many more!


----------



## rsderrick

Fantastic Charlie! Hope our SFBA will hear about your successes.


----------



## rsderrick

Thanks for the update ODFrank


----------



## rsderrick

Beautiful. Swarm Commander is better than lemongrass oil. Keep the free bees coming!


----------



## rsderrick

Fantastic!!!!


----------



## rsderrick

Marant....have you had any success this season? Please let us know.


----------



## rsderrick

I just want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. The phone calls and emails I've received have been overwhelming. I really appreciate all the work that you folks have done in trying Swarm Commander Premium Swarm Lure. I have truly enjoyed seeing this product go from concept to reality and it been even more fulfilling seeing all the success that the product has brought so many. 

I'll be announcing a new Swarm Commander delivery system in a week or two that will be slow release. We are hoping to launch it this year but it's still in testing and prototyping. I'll keep everyone informed.

Thanks again to everyone for all you've done and all the constructive feedback. Keep the feedback coming.


----------



## shannonswyatt

Maybe you should put it on Indiegogo, get all the folks that have purchased flow hives to get some.


----------



## GarfieldBeek

Caught two more swarms in traps this weekend. Both went to fiber pot traps with Swarm Commander. So far no luck using nucs or hives with SC. Even when side by side bees are going to the fiber pots with no interest in the wooden boxes.


----------



## rsderrick

GarfieldBeek said:


> Caught two more swarms in traps this weekend. Both went to fiber pot traps with Swarm Commander. So far no luck using nucs or hives with SC. Even when side by side bees are going to the fiber pots with no interest in the wooden boxes.


Very interesting GarfieldBeek. I haven't heard that one yet. Are your hives new or used? Something is keeping them from choosing them IMHO.


----------



## snapper1d

I was going to get a case of those fiber pots but I had too many unusable deep supers to make traps out of.Old used boxes are hard to beat.


----------



## rsderrick

snapper1d said:


> I was going to get a case of those fiber pots but I had too many unusable deep supers to make traps out of.Old used boxes are hard to beat.


I agree snapper. I have had equipment that bees just wouldn't stay in. Nothing that I could put a finger on but they just kept leaving. I decided it must be the wood or something they rejected. I eventually put it in the burn pile.


----------



## GarfieldBeek

I've tried both new and used. I have old comb in both the hives and I suspend a piece in the fiber pots. So far they've chosen the pots every time.


----------



## DirtyLittleSecret

Ok, so I ordered a set of 5 vials of swarm commander and followed the instructions over the weekend (Sunday afternoon). Came home Monday evening in squalling rain to the Mrs frantically telling me there's a swarm! Hot ****! Too bad they swarmed into the base of a road sign (soil/grass) right next to the hive I installed SC the very day before. Finally today I was able to confirm collection of the queen (could hear her piping in the new hive), installed old comb and a full feeder. I might as well have had gone down and bought a package of bees!


----------



## firebee

I am making swarm traps for the first time this year. I was planning on using lemon grass. After reading this I am all in on Swarm Commander.


----------



## minz

Well this year I went for the Swarm Commander here at work, hoping it would give me the edge in our ongoing swam catch completion. My nemesis informed me on Monday that he had filled all of his dead outs from winter and was pulling down his traps. I am 0/8 this year. I suppose I would eventually loose but shut out! I actually did not want to report until this last batch of hot weather to see if I could at least make a showing before posting but I have to hang my head in shame. 
My own fault for changing up a good recipe, I should have at least not gone in 100%


----------



## Charlie B

Minz,

Don't feel bad. Some seasons are like that no matter what you use. Other seasons they fill up without using anything but old brood comb. It's a crap shoot really. It's like fishing and wondering if you're using the right bait. If the fish aren't there, they're not there!


----------



## snapper1d

minz said:


> Well this year I went for the Swarm Commander here at work, hoping it would give me the edge in our ongoing swam catch completion. My nemesis informed me on Monday that he had filled all of his dead outs from winter and was pulling down his traps. I am 0/8 this year. I suppose I would eventually loose but shut out! I actually did not want to report until this last batch of hot weather to see if I could at least make a showing before posting but I have to hang my head in shame.
> My own fault for changing up a good recipe, I should have at least not gone in 100%


Well Minz I am starting to feel the same way now.I used the Swarm Commander and got a good swarm right off the bat.I have five swarm boxes set up here at my house.Every one of them set up with a frame or two of good brood comb.I have sprayed them with swarm Commander also.I had a swarm come up yesterday and they just waved bye and left.Today another swarm came up and they waved bye also!!!!!


----------



## DirtyLittleSecret

Just came home to ANOTHER swarm! That's the THIRD time this week (since I seeded just one dose of SC). Was surprised to receive another order by accident and gave them a call just to let them know...response: Merry Christmas! Im sold both on the product and service. Highly recommended and am going to share two vials with my local Beek mentor just to share the word.


----------



## odfrank

The LGO won in this comparison to SCL. The hive on the left baited with LGO caught a bigger healthier swarm that needed a super when I found it today. The hive second from the right baited with SCL caught a swarm with a poor queen laying mostly drone cells. The host felt they flew in towards the end of March.


----------



## KQ6AR

My un-scientific results so far this year. I have 11 traps out all with SC, Last year LGO. 
Results so far are equal to last year, caught one swarm in the same location as last year.

Our main swarm season has passed, but there will be more swarms all summer.


----------



## Charlie B

Another un-scientific study conclusion. I have to give a slight edge to SCL. It seemed to attract scouts much earlier and in greater numbers. Even amount of swarm captures though.


----------



## rsderrick

firebee said:


> I am making swarm traps for the first time this year. I was planning on using lemon grass. After reading this I am all in on Swarm Commander.


Good Luck Firebee. Many have found that Swarm Commander gives them the edge over other swarm lures on the market. I hope you catch many swarms this year. Thanks so much for the business!


----------



## WBVC

I had 2 paper tub type swarm boxes up for the past 2 seasons without a bee so much as crossing threshold. I put them up again this year and gave each a sritz of SC. Withon a few days lots of bees are going in and out. I have no idea if they will accept them but at least they are looking. Checked my own hives and found no QC...so time will tell.
I amaway for a week and will check when I get back.


----------



## rsderrick

Charlie B said:


> Another un-scientific study conclusion. I have to give a slight edge to SCL. It seemed to attract scouts much earlier and in greater numbers. Even amount of swarm captures though.


Charlie B...I appreciate the confidence. I believe there are many factors that influence where honey bee swarms decide to reside. All the feedback I've been getting both on forums and telephone calls have shown me that Swarm Commander gives you folks the edge. Are there those who aren't having success? I'm sure there are but the majority are having great success and are relating it to their use of Swarm Commander. As beekeepers all we can do it take the knowledge we have about bees and do our very best to use the tools we have at our disposal to catch swarms. There is no "magic formula" for capturing every honey bee swarm that comes your way but I believe you can give yourself every advantage possible. 

We created Swarm Commander to give you that advantage. I know I won't convince everyone that Swarm Commander works and i won't try. The feedback on this forum and others will be the proof that will convince others to try it or not. I believe we have created a product that will give you the edge over anything on the market. Will you have success with other products? Yes you will but I believe apples to apples we will prove better than anything out there. 

Again thanks for the confidence.


----------



## rsderrick

Charlie B said:


> Here are my two swarm together side by side, one LGO and the other SCL. Both doing well with big fat queens and a good laying pattern.


Good Stuff!


----------



## rsderrick

odfrank said:


> Here are pics of the swarm shown in video on post #102. I moved them today from the bait box into a a hive. Solid brood, bees and honey wall to wall in about two weeks, quiet yellow bees and queen. I would value this catch at $200+ compared to package bees, first catch paid for my bottle of Swarm Commander lure. Keep in mind however that this site has caught in previous years with lemon grass lure, 4, 10 and even 13 bait swarms a year.


Thats a nice swarm of Bee ODFrank Thanks for posting!


----------



## odfrank

My unscientific result of the day: Three Warres, the LGO swarm came first and was large as per the host who saw it arrive, the two SL swarms came second and third and looked good also but were not witnessed. It might have not been the lures that attracted the swarms, but the logs the host put on top of the boxes!!! I have to put more at this site, it caught two with LGO last year and three so far this year.


----------



## shannonswyatt

****! I better get the chain saw out! I don't have logs on any of my boxes!


----------



## KQ6AR

I agree there is a greater interest in the SC hives, than the LG hives. 
Just haven't seen the final results back it up.



Charlie B said:


> Another un-scientific study conclusion. I have to give a slight edge to SCL. It seemed to attract scouts much earlier and in greater numbers. Even amount of swarm captures though.


----------



## BackYardPhenomena

Been using Swarm commander in my traps for about three weeks-- no luck as of yet.


----------



## GarfieldBeek

Maybe it's just beginner's luck for me but I just hived my 10th capture in the past month.

Swarm Commander
Fiber Pots

Maybe an important factor- all traps near existing colonies, my own or placed near known feral hives in trees and old chimneys.

There was an article in Bee Culture a few months ago about some bee researchers who ran 50 traps in the Okeefenokee Swamp trying to catch swarms that had been feral for a long period. They caught 1 out of 50 traps.

I'm guessing like fishing, you gotta fish where there are lots of fish (or swarms) to catch.


----------



## SallyD

GarfieldBeek said:


> Maybe it's just beginner's luck for me but I just hived my 10th capture in the past month.
> 
> Swarm Commander
> Fiber Pots
> 
> Maybe an important factor- all traps near existing colonies, my own or placed near known feral hives in trees and old chimneys.
> 
> There was an article in Bee Culture a few months ago about some bee researchers who ran 50 traps in the Okeefenokee Swamp trying to catch swarms that had been feral for a long period. They caught 1 out of 50 traps.
> 
> I'm guessing like fishing, you gotta fish where there are lots of fish (or swarms) to catch.


Garfield- do you have your traps in trees? How high off ground?


----------



## rsderrick

GarfieldBeek said:


> Maybe it's just beginner's luck for me but I just hived my 10th capture in the past month.
> 
> Swarm Commander
> Fiber Pots
> 
> Maybe an important factor- all traps near existing colonies, my own or placed near known feral hives in trees and old chimneys.
> 
> There was an article in Bee Culture a few months ago about some bee researchers who ran 50 traps in the Okeefenokee Swamp trying to catch swarms that had been feral for a long period. They caught 1 out of 50 traps.
> 
> I'm guessing like fishing, you gotta fish where there are lots of fish (or swarms) to catch.


I've been hearing many success stories about Swarm Commander and Fiber Traps. It's would be interesting to know why they are choosing these pots over hives. Some folk have actually had fiber pots next to hives and the pots were chosen over the hive. Very interesting.


----------



## GarfieldBeek

SallyD said:


> Garfield- do you have your traps in trees? How high off ground?


While I have read that they should be 10 or 12 feet most of mine have been 6 to 8 feet (just convenience) One was mounted on my wife's portable building garden shed just under eave probably 8 feet. It just caught it's second swarm.

I caught one yesterday that was not in a fiber pot. I didn't give them a chance because I hadn't mounted one in that location. I had stacked up about 5 empty top bar hives that I no longer use. It looked like a good place for a swarm to go so I sprayed Swarm Commander in the top box. Went back two days later and found about 4 pounds of bees hanging under the top lid. Bumped them into a Lang. Took about 5 minutes.


----------



## minz

KQ6AR said:


> I agree there is a greater interest in the SC hives, than the LG hives.
> Just haven't seen the final results back it up.


I got a call that one of my traps was full this weekend. Ran over the following day and nothing. I went and looked at one yesterday, I could not get within 10’ of it for all of the bees. Just went to pull it before it hit 50 degrees. Nothing. Odd, there does seem to be more interst.
I think I am going to just go to LGO on a q-tip. 2 drops and send it in the front entrance. I do not see it hurting anything. Earlier this week it was 80 I figure 10 days from then I should have one more shot at swarms. 
Like fishing, go back to what worked for me before.


----------



## snapper1d

I have been watching my traps with swarm commander and I am seeing the ones with the lemongrass oil having a lot more scouts.I first thought it was going to be the best thing since peanut butter and jelly sandwiches because I got a swarm right off the bat with Swarm Commander but now I dont know.I am not going to give up on it but so far it doesnt seem to be any better than LGO.


----------



## SallyD

I just got my second swarm with Swarm Commander. I put it in the exact same spot that I caught my last swarm. I moved the last swarm from the location and three days later I get another one. I'm sold on the stuff!


----------



## snapper1d

If you find a good place you will continue to catch swarms in that place.I have always have a bunch of traps out and some places just wont catch no matter what I do.Then in a couple places I always catch them.I think placement is really the biggest part in catching swarms.


----------



## gww

You all are getting more action then me. I have twelve traps and three empty hives and have not seen a bee near them since the flow started. Some were checking it before all the flowers but not now.
Good luck
gww


----------



## sc-bee

Ok Pros.... I have some LGO and some SC to try. What is the best configuration to make up the boxes. Ten frame deeps with ten frames of old comb. Or if I don't have enough old comb, some old comb and empty frames or add some foundation somewhere. i hear some say they are looking for the cavity size so one frame of old comb and empty frames with wedge turned down. Not looking to do a cut out  The same questions for five frame nucs. I have heard so much conflicting info. Just want your advice as to interior content. Oh yea lure on a q-tip in a bag or out?


----------



## snapper1d

I use old 10 frame deeps that are no longer used.A couple frames of old brood comb and the rest of the frames with foundation.A swarm can build comb really fast.Also open areas in a box here draws red wasp like crazy.About 3-4 drops of lemongrass oil on a wood frame and it soaks into the wood and it holds the scent pretty well.When using swarm commander i give a shot across the tops of the frames and one in the entrance like the directions call for.On the dark brood frames use some that dont have a lot of pollen so the beetles dont invade and a spraying of Bt will keep the wax worms from eating it.


----------



## Ppanofsky

rsderrick said:


> I'll give everyone that is part of this thread a $5.00 discount.


Thanks for the code rsderrick!
Quick question, I have cotton balls with a few drops of LG oil in my bait hives now. When my swarm commander spray arrives do I need to remove the LG oil or can I just shoot a couple squirts of commander in the entrance hole? Any application tips are welcomed. 

Thanks again.


----------



## tanksbees

Twice this year, the bees have ignored my swarm traps with LGO all around the yard and moved into smelly unmaintained wax moth infested equipment I had laying around the yard.

I don't know if swarm commander works or not, but my experience so far is that a disgusting nasty hive attracts more bees than LGO.


----------



## beesohappy

That's really interesting! How long have they been there? What have they been able to do with the moths and larvae? How does the hives look now?


----------



## shannonswyatt

tanksbees said:


> ...
> 
> I don't know if swarm commander works or not, but my experience so far is that a disgusting nasty hive attracts more bees than LGO.


Can you put that in a pump sprayer!  I'll take two!


----------



## Ted n Ms

odfrank said:


> Here are pics of the swarm shown in video on post #102. I moved them today from the bait box into a a hive. Solid brood, bees and honey wall to wall in about two weeks, quiet yellow bees and queen. I would value this catch at $200+ compared to package bees, first catch paid for my bottle of Swarm Commander lure. Keep in mind however that this site has caught in previous years with lemon grass lure, 4, 10 and even 13 bait swarms a year.


Nice queen in bottom of pic.

Caught about four frame swarm today using swarm commander .


----------



## SowthEfrikan

So I had some lemongrass-based bee lure and have had that out in my capture hives for a month or so. Nothing. 

Of course, the weather has been really wet and lousy for several weeks, also. Yesterday, a sunny day at long last, I finally was able to dab the hives with Swarm Commando. That same evening, one hive had occupants. This morning, the other hive was occupied, too. Two swarms in as many days. This is purely ancedotal, but as far as I am concerned, Swarm Commando works. 

It certainly does not scare bees off.

Thank you for the product that you originally sent (at a massive, generous discount) - I'll happily be buying a lot more in future.


----------



## Ted n Ms

Trying to post video from face book. I don't know how.


----------



## Ted n Ms

i give up


----------



## shannonswyatt

You could just post a link to it.


----------



## minz

first swarm in the SC traps. Maybe a softball size. 
I have 3 from calls for 4 total.


----------



## rsderrick

sc-bee said:


> Ok Pros.... I have some LGO and some SC to try. What is the best configuration to make up the boxes. Ten frame deeps with ten frames of old comb. Or if I don't have enough old comb, some old comb and empty frames or add some foundation somewhere. i hear some say they are looking for the cavity size so one frame of old comb and empty frames with wedge turned down. Not looking to do a cut out  The same questions for five frame nucs. I have heard so much conflicting info. Just want your advice as to interior content. Oh yea lure on a q-tip in a bag or out?


Steve...just spray SC twice on your inner cover and once once at the entrance. Whatever you use make sure you put it up off the ground. Maybe 8 to 10 foot up. Paper traps have been doing well this year.


----------



## OkieRob

I ordered some and see that sales tax is charged for out of state sales. I did use the coupon so I guess I'm still ahead of the game.


----------



## KQ6AR

I have a dozen traps out with SC. Yesterday a swarm moved into an empty box I had sitting out to give to someone, no lure, just some drawn frames.
1 for SC, 1 for empty box.


----------



## snapper1d

I have three traps set right here at the house with Swarm Commander in them.This morning I heard something coming from the south and they passed tight over through the yard and kept going!!!


----------



## GarfieldBeek

Still no side by side comparison of SC to LGO or no lure. Everything is going too good with the SC to risk changing.
Total of 17 fiber traps out now 15 swarms captured in the past month all with Swarm Commander.


----------



## Bluesman

Just ordered some SC Wednsday. I have been putting LGO in my traps. These bees around must have lockjaw. Maybe the SC will make 'em bite.


----------



## KQ6AR

ODFrank is running some side by side comparisons. I don't think its proven to have an edge over the other methods.
I haven't noticed any advantage over last year when I used all LG oil. Might take us afew years to finish this experiment


----------



## Ted n Ms

xxx


----------



## odfrank

A big swarm on the swarm lure comparison table. Three videos, three types of lure in two boxes. Yes Charlie, this is my 30th catch this year, eat your heart out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7R2Oi0YB6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_FIk8JoX8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS-xtdbAHPc


----------



## shannonswyatt

Frank, the last video is marked private.


----------



## Charlie B

I'm still at 13 Ollie, you braggart. Things are starting to look up here in SF trap wise. Time for a little Honey-B-Gone in San Mateo!


----------



## rsderrick

KQ6AR said:


> ODFrank is running some side by side comparisons. I don't think its proven to have an edge over the other methods.
> I haven't noticed any advantage over last year when I used all LG oil. Might take us afew years to finish this experiment


How many swarm have you caught this year Dan?


----------



## wareagle1776

I had a cut out yesterday with nine partial frames of brood and a decent amount of bees.......Next morning they decided they liked my hive box baited with swarm commander and moved in leaving just some nurse bees behind........Little strange?


----------



## rsderrick

wareagle1776 said:


> I had a cut out yesterday with nine partial frames of brood and a decent amount of bees.......Next morning they decided they liked my hive box baited with swarm commander and moved in leaving just some nurse bees behind........Little strange?


It could be that there is something about the box you put them in that they don't like? Was all the brood in good shape?


----------



## wareagle1776

Brood appeared to be in good viable brood, box was from a deadout and nothing unusual about it....I'm not certain that I had the queen and that might have been the reason. But one thing is certain they chose the box w/swarm commander over the other boxes that were out.


----------



## Ted n Ms

I have caught three nice swarms using Swarm Commander. I won"t use anything else.


----------



## minz

I am thinking about putting my bottle up for sale at $15, slightly used any takers?


----------



## snapper1d

I have 12 swarm traps out on 40 acres we have.I went and looked at them and just got back.All have old brood comb and foundation.Some had Swarm Commander,some Lemongrass oil and some nothing but the old brood comb.6 of them have bees all over them.Just scout bee though.I cant tell the difference now between the SC,LGO and old brood comb as far as the bees being drawn in.Some that had as many as a hundred scout bees had only brood comb.Some with SC and LGO had 0 bees checking them out.I am starting to think placement now as I had moved one about 50' and never ever saw a bee around it but now it has the most scout bees looking it over inside and out.When I start seeing lots of scout bees there will be a swarm in just a few days!


----------



## KQ6AR

Two in traps one had SC, & a couple shaken out of trees. Slow swarm year again. Our prime season is almost over.



rsderrick said:


> How many swarm have you caught this year Dan?


----------



## shannonswyatt

I have a few boxes in my yard that I put a couple sprays of Swarm Command in. No luck on them yet, but I noticed that I had no activity at all at a dead out with about a dozen bars of comb in it. Within an hour there was a ton of activity. Now there are what appears to be guard bees that just sit at the entrance of the hive. I guess they are camping until their hive is ready to swarm.


----------



## rsderrick

OkieRob said:


> I ordered some and see that sales tax is charged for out of state sales. I did use the coupon so I guess I'm still ahead of the game.


Rob...you shouldn't have been charged for sales tax out of state. Tax is only charged for South Carolina. The packing list state's sales tax being charged by state last. Right now that only applies to SC.


----------



## shannonswyatt

The hive that I sprayed the Swarm Commander in received a swarm from another hive in my yard. It was kind of funny watching them swarm all of 30 feet right into the box.


----------



## KQ6AR

Caught my second one with Swarm Commander.
Thats two with SC, & one with old comb no lure.


----------



## Capphd

It's interesting how the same people keep posting to this thread to bump it up to the top. Just sayin'


----------



## odfrank

Capphd said:


> It's interesting how the same people keep posting to this thread to bump it up to the top. Just sayin'


Only RSDerrick has a stake in SCL. As far as I know, the rest of us are just interested in improving our bait swarm catching percentages and are trying his product and commenting on it.


----------



## waynesgarden

Capphd said:


> It's interesting how the same people keep posting to this thread to bump it up to the top. Just sayin'


Haven't been at the forums too much lately. I'm glad this thread got bumped up and I saw some success stories. Got my order in. 

Wayne


----------



## shannonswyatt

I'm only posting my observations. I have a lifetime supply of LGO, not of SC. So in the end if LGO is just as effective I'm still good.


----------



## Capphd

When I use LGO and go to hang a box this time of year, the bees are streaming through the entrance before I get it hung. I like LGO.


----------



## WBVC

If a nuc swarm trap has bees going in and out throughout the day yet no grouped bees inside does this indicate that a swarm will likely show up?


----------



## Charlie B

WBVC, 

Those could be scouts so I would keep your fingers crossed.


----------



## TomG

Caught my first swarm with SC today. Not sure how big of swarm since the trap is at my girlfriends house an hour away. She caught them as they were moving in and took a couple videos of them.


----------



## kingd

Baited 3 traps with S.C. and am do for refreshing them but It looks like I am getting scouts going in and out of 2 of them.

Should I wait on spritzing them?

Also,the third one I used lemon grass and no activity.


----------



## KQ6AR

OD I think Capphd makes a good point. Scott should send both of us a quart of the stuff.
For the record I purchased my 2oz spray bottle of SC



Capphd said:


> It's interesting how the same people keep posting to this thread to bump it up to the top. Just sayin'


----------



## rsderrick

TomG said:


> Caught my first swarm with SC today. Not sure how big of swarm since the trap is at my girlfriends house an hour away. She caught them as they were moving in and took a couple videos of them.


Tom please post it on Youtube. I'd loved to put it on the front page of my website!


----------



## rsderrick

KQ6AR said:


> Caught my second one with Swarm Commander.
> Thats two with SC, & one with old comb no lure.


Way to go Dan. How much do you think you'd have paid for those bees if they were packages? Do you think your purchase of Swarm Commander paid for itself?


----------



## rsderrick

kingd said:


> Baited 3 traps with S.C. and am do for refreshing them but It looks like I am getting scouts going in and out of 2 of them.
> 
> Should I wait on spritzing them?
> 
> Also,the third one I used lemon grass and no activity.


King...I'd wait on refreshing. If scouts are moving leave it alone. Sorry for the late reply and thanks for using Swarm Commander Premium Swarm Lure.


----------



## rsderrick

Capphd...it might be because these are the guys interested in catching swarms and trying hard to distinguish the difference between Swarm Commander and LGO. They are bringing in and recording great data. Keep it up guys and thanks for all the effort.


----------



## beesohappy

2:1 Both had at least one frame of old comb.

2 lemongrass
1 swarm commander

When you go fishing there's a term a lot of fisherman say " The bigger the bait, the bigger the fish". Well I took that as I needed to add more lure so I poured lemongrass oil on the landing board of a 5 frame nuc, also on the top of the lid and on the inside of the lid. Those that I did that to caught huge swarms. One has already filled out two deeps and is working on the third and the other we'll need to see still. It just moved in about a week ago.


----------



## rsderrick

beesohappy said:


> 2:1 Both had at least one frame of old comb.
> 
> 2 lemongrass
> 1 swarm commander
> 
> When you go fishing there's a term a lot of fisherman say " The bigger the bait, the bigger the fish". Well I took that as I needed to add more lure so I poured lemongrass oil on the landing board of a 5 frame nuc, also on the top of the lid and on the inside of the lid. Those that I did that to caught huge swarms. One has already filled out two deeps and is working on the third and the other we'll need to see still. It just moved in about a week ago.


Good Job...Question...how far apart were the traps? Did you load more than the suggested amount of SC into any of the boxes? Thanks for posting


----------



## beesohappy

The two lemongrass were about 14 miles apart from each other and the swarm commander was in the middle. 

A couple days ago I put a bait box with swarm commander that I sprayed down real heavy in the same spot I caught the first lemongrass swarm just to see. I sprayed both the landing board and the inside of the lid twice and for good measure sprayed the inside with about four pumps. 

I have another bait box to try out here at the house. I'll pour the swarm commander on it just like I did the lemongrass oil. It was between 1-2 ounces of oil.


----------



## beesohappy

I just set the trap. A 5 frame nuc with swarm commander poured all over it and in it. I've been out side making frames with the awesome foundation I got from Acorn and there's been a lot of bee activity this morning. Just for kicks yesterday I took an empty box that the foundation came in and closed it up and cut a small hole in the side with the bottom bent out like a landing board. There side by side on top of a outside fridge about 5' off the ground facing south. I have two drawn comb in the4 nuc as well.

I'll keep you posted.

On a side not about the swarm I caught here at the house I noticed about a frames worth of bees hanging out over night a couple days before the big swarm moved in. I wish I would have looked in it to see if they had a queen. I looked on the ground after the fact and didn't see any fighting or dead bees.


----------



## rsderrick

beesohappy said:


> The two lemongrass were about 14 miles apart from each other and the swarm commander was in the middle.
> 
> A couple days ago I put a bait box with swarm commander that I sprayed down real heavy in the same spot I caught the first lemongrass swarm just to see. I sprayed both the landing board and the inside of the lid twice and for good measure sprayed the inside with about four pumps.
> 
> I have another bait box to try out here at the house. I'll pour the swarm commander on it just like I did the lemongrass oil. It was between 1-2 ounces of oil.


Beesohappy,

You might prove me wrong but all the experience I've had and feedback I've received, too much Swarm Commander will have the opposite effect. You should only put two pumps on the telescoping lid and one on the entrance. Too much spray will typically have the reverse effect. Keep us posted with what you decide to do. It will be interesting to see the results.


----------



## waynesgarden

beesohappy said:


> I have another bait box to try out here at the house. I'll pour the swarm commander on it just like I did the lemongrass oil. It was between 1-2 ounces of oil.


So you're dumping between 15 & 30 bucks worth of bait into a single trap when it's been made clear that too much is counterproductive? Well, it's your money.

I think I'll be trying the couple of pumps as recommended when my order arrives. 

Wayne


----------



## KQ6AR

The bees wouldn't have cost me anything because I haven't had to buy bees in years. 
My swarm trapping success is up from last year, & the year before. Unfortunately I have no way of knowing if the SC was the reason.
Will I buy it again, Yes Can I have the quart now? 



rsderrick said:


> Way to go Dan. How much do you think you'd have paid for those bees if they were packages? Do you think your purchase of Swarm Commander paid for itself?


----------



## sc-bee

Got my first one today. Dad and I have out about a dozen traps. Most are five framers. I did set up two ten frame deeps as a comparison of LGO and SC. I made the deeps as close to identical as possible. I put two drawn frames and two empty frames in each. This is my first attempt at putting out traps and read from one end to the other. Use foundation-- don't use foundation, use drawn comb but only one, just use empty frames etc, etc, Check the traps last tues and had to go out of town and then work a week of long days. Refreshed them both before I left. So it had been 11 days since I checked the traps. Well wish I had put more empties in it.

The trap number 8 has SC in it. The one in the foreground was LGO. My one and only score so far is with SC.


----------



## Michael Bush

> It was between 1-2 ounces of oil.

Anything over 4 drops is COUNTER productive. It will drive the bees away...


----------



## odfrank

Michael Bush said:


> > It was between 1-2 ounces of oil.Anything over 4 drops is COUNTER productive. It will drive the bees away...


I filled my small bottle of LGO on a bait hive floor, spilling a 3" circle, maybe a tablespoons worth. No swarm has moved into it yet but at least three have chosen nearby boxes properly baited or not baited at all.


----------



## rsderrick

sc-bee said:


> Got my first one today. Dad and I have out about a dozen traps. Most are five framers. I did set up two ten frame deeps as a comparison of LGO and SC. I made the deeps as close to identical as possible. I put two drawn frames and two empty frames in each. This is my first attempt at putting out traps and read from one end to the other. Use foundation-- don't use foundation, use drawn comb but only one, just use empty frames etc, etc, Check the traps last tues and had to go out of town and then work a week of long days. Refreshed them both before I left. So it had been 11 days since I checked the traps. Well wish I had put more empties in it.
> 
> The trap number 8 has SC in it. The one in the foreground was LGO. My one and only score so far is with SC.


Great Photos's Steve. Thanks for the effort. I had something very similar happen to me this year. I had two hives in a farmer's field that had old comb and wax moth ridden comb in them. The hives were actually deteriorated to the point that they are considered unusable. I emptied the deep of the horrible wax moth damaged frames and placed it on top of a telescoping lid. I then placed a medium with almost the same condition frames on top it and put another telescoping lid on the medium to keep the telescoping lid off the ground. Well This was about a month ago. I went back out to that yard this week to throw them on a burn pile and low and behold a swarm had take up residence in it. The edges of the boxs where damaged form rot and it gave the bees a perfect access point to the medium Somehow or another they fixed that old wax moth ridden comb and are doing good. They also drew comb off the bottom of the medium directly down into the empty deep. When I lifted the medium to check it, there was about the same length combs you have in your in that deep. I'm glad went because if I didn't it would have been a worse mess. I was able to get the comb removed and get a bottom board and deep with frames under the medium. Phew!


----------



## mcon672

Caught my first swarm with a trap today. Swarm commander and some bits of old comb in a deep that was rubbed with propolis. Have 11 others out some with lgo and some sc.


----------



## odfrank

On some days if I leave my truck window open bees congregate on the bottle of SCL in a pocket of my bee bag.


----------



## mcon672

We trapped 10 swarms with 12 traps this year with sc. This was our first year trapping. I would say it works. 10 of the traps were deeps or equivalent the other 2 were the fiber pot traps that did not catch. Some old comb in each trap. All but one were accessible from the ground (average 5 feet off ground).


----------



## shannonswyatt

odfrank said:


> On some days if I leave my truck window open bees congregate on the bottle of SCL in a pocket of my bee bag.


 I had the same think happen to me on my bag yesterday at a cut out. Looks almost like the same bag!


----------



## jadebees

I did lots of research on what esters and fatty acids are in Nasonov. The reason lemongrass oil works is that it contains the same essence as Nasonov. The synthetics online are made from blended essential oils, mainly. Lemongrass can be enhanced with blending in other oils, and will contain the same esters. They will be a synthetic nasonov. These substances can also be purchased in bulk, to make a synthetic lure. The bees like all of them. The best stuff is tested for its ratio of chemicals, even if made of essential oils. ( Or properly blended to begin with ).


----------



## rsderrick

jadebees said:


> I did lots of research on what esters and fatty acids are in Nasonov. The reason lemongrass oil works is that it contains the same essence as Nasonov. The synthetics online are made from blended essential oils, mainly. Lemongrass can be enhanced with blending in other oils, and will contain the same esters. They will be a synthetic nasonov. These substances can also be purchased in bulk, to make a synthetic lure. The bees like all of them. The best stuff is tested for its ratio of chemicals, even if made of essential oils. ( Or properly blended to begin with ).


Jade,

There are 7 compounds in Nasanov. Lemongrass doesn't have all of them nor are the ratios correct. We've taken nasanov into the lab and synthesized them at what we believe are the correct levels. The purchase of the minor raw materials in their natural and even synthetic forms are near impossible. We've found suppliers that are working with us to keep the raw materials in stock at an affordable price. We've received feedback, the majority of which is absolutely fantastic this year. We couldn't be more pleased. Our distributors are also receiving great feedback on the product. 

Thanks.


----------



## rsderrick

odfrank said:


> On some days if I leave my truck window open bees congregate on the bottle of SCL in a pocket of my bee bag.


I love seeing photos like this. I've had quite a few folks tell me similar stories about bees being on their back pockets. I've even had folks tell me they had to change cloths because the bees were hanging all over them when they got the product on their shirt or pants. This couldn't please me more.


----------



## waynesgarden

Well, I'll be the one failure reporting in. Did not catch a single swarm this year, either with lemongrass oil early in the season or Swarm Commander later. I can't blame the attractant though if swarms simply were not in the cards.

Looking forward to trying again next season.

Wayne


----------



## Maddy

Hi!
It is now November, 2015. So far, this thread is pretty much a love - fest for Swarm Commander, and I am as attracted as a Spring swarm...This is our 3rd year with bees, we started with 2 colonies, and I foolishly daubed LMO on the legs of one of our two TBH's. The majority of one of the packages then joined that colony, which swarmed this Spring. The other, weaker colony survived, and then starved in late Spring. 

We had 3 swarms pass through the backyard, for the first time in the decades I have lived in this house. But we were only fortunate enough to capture one that was on a low branch we could cut off and put into the then empty TBH from the colony that had absconded. At present, it is now our only colony, and while somewhat anti-social, with a totally compromised TBH full of crazy-comb that cannot be cut out without the resulting hive trauma, we are converting to Langstroths next year. Having had horrible luck with package bees, I am hoping to have another lucky year with Swarms in 2016.

A few questions for Scott and those of you who have tried Swarm Commander.
1. (Scott) Does the time of year to order make any difference? 
2. (Scott) Is there any preferable time of year to ensure the freshest stock?
3. (Anyone) Does S.C. have a "best by" date, and is it on the bottle/vial?
4. (Anyone) How many applications are in the vials? - We only have a few hives, and I am only interested in capturing 3-4 swarms. I don't really need a full bottle. 1 vial per hive? 2 hives? 

Thank you all, this site, and all of you, have helped me understand so much that was "Greek" to me, and have me SO excited for next season!
The hardest thing is when you lose a colony. Being able to catch some swarms would help it not be quite so bad...

Regards, 
Maddy


----------



## Charlie B

Some Beekeepers here in SF are realizing that swarm captures are the way to go to replenish dead outs. Packages are not surviving as well as swarms for whatever reason. Swarm Commander certainly helps in attracting swarms and for the cost, it's well worth it.


----------



## Maddy

I was reading an article about bee escapes, and someone mentioned how after the bees left his super through the escapes, they went down "to the Nasanov signals down at the hive entrance..."

This caught my eye, because of this discussion. It could have been poetic license by the author, for all I know, but does Nasanov factor into bee activity more than just during swarming?
If so, are there times other than swarming, when you might use a bit of LGO, or SC at the entrance of a hive to encourage bee behavior, such as away from a super during harvest?

Or should you only use it as a swarm attractant?
After my "welcoming committee" efforts with LGO on the hive legs, and the resultive success in luring half of one colony away from their sisters, the hubby has hidden the LGO bottle from me...at least until Spring and swarm season...But I am curious as to other uses for it with bees. Anybody use attractants for anything besides swarming?
~M


----------



## Michael Bush

>... but does Nasanov factor into bee activity more than just during swarming?

Absolutely. If you ever have a queen fly off I would use it to your advantage. If you want to move a hive in the middle of the afternoon, you can also use it to your advantage. Just open the hive up, pull a frame out and shake them off back into the hive. A lot of bees will come to the top and start putting their butts in the air and fanning. Returning foragers will stay. Leave the lid off for 30 minutes or so and then close it up and move it. Most of the foragers will now be home.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenflying.htm

A few drops of Lemongrass oil in a new hive will help anchor a swarm or a package there. Not as well as open brood will, or even as well as an old brood comb, but it will help. This is not to get a swarm to move in, but just to keep them from moving OUT.


----------



## jadebees

There are 7 esters"fatty acids" in Nasanov. It is a mixture, from a gland. But it is used in ways that have nothing to do with the "new free home" signal. 2 esters are involved in that. A trace is left on worked flowers. A different ester for a different context? Water areas are marked, again ,what ester for that context? Anything scout bees investigate, gets traced. Drone flight areas get marked , along with other pheremones, purely for mating purposes. When a swarm leaves, Nasanov is used, by the queen and retinue, for the purpose of Leaving a hive,along with queenie's other scents. The opposite effect of homing scent, but the same as placed Into a lure by scout bees. Bee communication is poorly understood, and some of the research is facinating to a geek-beek like me. There are a lot of very interesting published papers online. I learned to make very excellent swarm lure reading other folk's research & graduate thesis's.


----------



## Qkrwogud

Is this product mainly for sort of rural areas where there is a lot of bee activity?
I'm in a suburban zone in New Zealand with virtually no bee activity(till I got a hive recently). Would this be of any use to me?


----------



## Maddy

jadebees said:


> ...I learned to make very excellent swarm lure reading other folk's research & graduate thesis's.


Oh, please, would you share more info on your Swarm Lure?

Along with bee vacs, swarm capture is something I am semi-obsessed with this Winter. Thank you!
~M


----------



## rsderrick

Qkrwogud said:


> Is this product mainly for sort of rural areas where there is a lot of bee activity?
> I'm in a suburban zone in New Zealand with virtually no bee activity(till I got a hive recently). Would this be of any use to me?


Okrwogud,

I would say yes. You can capture your own bees if they swarm. Just make sure to place swarm traps on the outer edges of your apiary. You can actually purchase Swarm Commander from Happy Hives in Whangarei, NZ. Here is the info for the site.

Happy Hives
Whangarei, New Zealand,
[email protected]
Telephone: 09-4346654

All the best!


----------



## rsderrick

Charlie B said:


> Some Beekeepers here in SF are realizing that swarm captures are the way to go to replenish dead outs. Packages are not surviving as well as swarms for whatever reason. Swarm Commander certainly helps in attracting swarms and for the cost, it's well worth it.


That is one of the main reason's I was motivated to create Swarm Commander. Being a removal guy for the past 12 years, I realize how well bee do when folks don't mess with em. Swarms are valuable especially when package are so high in cost and mortality recently.


----------



## tanksbees

Charlie B said:


> Some Beekeepers here in SF are realizing that swarm captures are the way to go to replenish dead outs. Packages are not surviving as well as swarms for whatever reason. Swarm Commander certainly helps in attracting swarms and for the cost, it's well worth it.


+1 down here in San Mateo, 5 out of 5 packages I installed last year for my friends and family died. All the swarms are doing great.


----------



## tanksbees

Just bought a bottle of Swarm Commander - my first purchase with bitcoin!


----------



## wfarler

rsderrick said:


> That is one of the main reason's I was motivated to create Swarm Commander. Being a removal guy for the past 12 years, I realize how well bee do when folks don't mess with em. Swarms are valuable especially when package are so high in cost and mortality recently.


I read a scientific research paper on Nasonov. They tested synthetic Nasonov (using 6 of the chemicals) against a number of other scents. They did the tests about as well as I think anyone could, switching the traps out from one test scent to another but at the same location, testing against some pretty good ideas like the foraging scent, some kind of nectar scent, wax moth feces scent, a scent associated with animal scat that would be found in a tree hollow, Lemon grass oil and so on.

The results were striking. The success ratio of Nasonov versus non-Nasonov was 4:1 with Nasonov attracting an average of 21 swarms versus 5 for the non-Nasonov. The lemongrass performed about like the other non-Nasonov scented traps.

Another thing I am curious about is Nasonov versus QMP. They are not the same thing but a lot of beekeepers go about collecting queens in alcohol and use it as a swarm lure. When I read the scientific literature I find the most active chemical has the effect of keeping the swarm cluster intact and they say nothing about attracting the swarm to a location. I am not sure what this means. Does QMP cause the swarm to think the queen is in the trap? that is what it would suggest. Nasonov is left by all bees not just the queen. It is supposed to signal 'this place is well visited by bees' so they collectively think this is attractive. Since we know swarms hive based on a sort of 'popular vote' where the cluster follows the greatest number of bee scouts the Nasonov effect makes a lot of sense while the QMP doesn't. Just wondering.


----------



## marant

Now that the swarm season is starting, how often should I reapply SC?


----------



## odfrank

marant said:


> Now that the swarm season is starting, how often should I reapply SC?


Once worked for me.


----------



## KQ6AR

I think they recommend a couple squirts every couple weeks. Just ordered two new bottles off Amazon its cheaper than ordering off of the official website because he charges his state sales tax to out of state customers.


----------



## dynemd

Set this box out yesterday with some Swarm Commander, just caught this swarm this afternoon. About half in the box and half outside moving in. Two frames of brood comb inside with 7 frames foundationless empty frames.


----------



## tanksbees

deleted


----------



## Barry

Please keep business dealings out of these forums. Do it via PM or in the vendor forums.


----------



## rsderrick

dynemd said:


> Set this box out yesterday with some Swarm Commander, just caught this swarm this afternoon. About half in the box and half outside moving in. Two frames of brood comb inside with 7 frames foundationless empty frames.


Fantastic Photos! Thanks for sharing your success with Swarm Commander!


----------



## Scpossum

That is neat. It is the first time I have seen swarm traps hanging from a rope. I see another behind it in the background.


----------



## tommysnare

Any chance of a package deal for buying deals commander and beegone ?


----------



## junaid mir

Does it work for apis cerina indica and european bees as well....
please reply


----------



## RedBarn

Had a10 frame deep on top of shed with LGO. Very little activity of scouts. 

Ordered SC and it arrived in mail friday, same day as I got two nucs.

Installed nucs Friday late afternoon.

Saturday, got a second 10 frame deep set up for a trap. Used SC. While it was open on tailgait of truck, had bees already checking it out... put it on she'd roof right next to trap with LGO Saturday afternoon. 

Today is Sunday and bees going in and checking out SC trap easily 10 - 1 compared to LGO right next to it. At times 40 +/- bees at SC trap... 

I am hoping SC is the key, and I get me a swarm.

Question for anyone that might know, my two nucs seemed pretty week. Looked mostly all like nurse bees on brood. Could these just be my nuc bees checking out their new area?


----------



## rsderrick

Hope you did well with Swarm Commander. I'd love some feedback.


----------



## rsderrick

junaid mir said:


> Does it work for apis cerina indica and european bees as well....
> please reply


I'm not sure but I'd love to find out. I feel confident it will but I'm just not sure.


----------



## rsderrick

tommysnare said:


> Any chance of a package deal for buying deals commander and beegone ?


Sorry for the horribly late reply. I'll take that for action.


----------



## JWPalmer

Hi Scott. Just ordered a 2 oz bottle. I used LGO last year but only hit two out of six on my traps. Looking to improve the odds this year.


----------



## shannonswyatt

I've had good luck with the spray. I got one of the things that looks like a car air freshener. I didn't get a hit on it. It was a gift so no biggie. I would stick with the spray. 

I'm thinking next year is going to be bad around here, most folks have high losses this year, so not sure how many swarms will be early next year.


----------



## JWPalmer

I am hoping there is some natural mite resistance to the feral colonies and that they made it through winter. I have a good spot near the James River in an industrial area that last year had lots of bee swarms. I caught my first one there May 1st and the second swarm about a month later. No hits on any of my residential traps. That is why I am willing to pony up for the Swarm Commander, even though I have 4 oz of LGO in the bee stuff drawer. I also now have drawn brood comb for the traps so that should help too.


----------



## Charlie B

It works. I lured a swarm from one of Odfrank’s hives a couple of years ago with it. I’ve been using it ever since! This hive is still alive and strong so if you want good bees, I’ll give you the address of Oliver’s beeyard.


----------



## msl

Middle of the suburbs, miles of urban sprawl.. this year I traped my front yard apple tree and a cotton wood 1/2 mile away, caught 6 swarms. (4 at the cotton wood and 2 at the house + swarm call 500 yards from my "gold mine" cotton wood)
when I went to the cotton wood I parked and by the time I went grab the trap out of the back of the truck there were scouts around it.. 
It was strong enuf I had bees with full pollen loads checking out the trap at my front yard


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> It works. I lured a swarm from one of Odfrank’s hives a couple of years ago with it. I’ve been using it ever since!


You should NOT DRINK Swarm Commander Lure like Charlie does or it will affect your mind like it did his. Consuming all that SCL plus his Tides Pod habit is really making him loony. Or it is onset of Dementia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/20/us/tide-pod-challenge.html


----------



## clong

I went into winter with four hives, and only two survived, both swarms caught with homemade wax disks containing Swarm Commander.

Interestingly, one of the swarms was captured July 3rd. It is currently the strongest.

Many thanks for the great product!


----------



## Charlie B

These two bait swarms lured in SF using Swarm Commander are going on 3 years old and still producing a plethora of honey. Notice the two bottom brood boxes are deeps.


----------



## Mike Brown

This spring will be my first attempt to trap some "free bees". I've bought the small spray bottle of Swarm Commander. My problem is that I am miles and miles from the nearest other beekeeper to the best of my knowledge, so I suppose my odds are pretty long. But one never knows!

Big Mike


----------



## JWPalmer

Mike, that you are not near any established apiaries is a good thing. Bees are almost everywhere. You stand a much better chance of catching true feral bees instead of a cast off swarm of someone's non climatized package bees. Set a bunch of traps and keep your fingers crossed. Make sure you have wooden ware enough for a 30% success rate. No promises, but that is a fair catch rate in a good year with good locations. Best of luck to you.


----------



## JWPalmer

I received my bottle of Swarm Commander this weekend and sprayed a trap to see how long I could detect the scent. Swarm season doesn't start here for at least another month or more and I am anxious to do a comparison. Two traps set up the same, one LGO, the SC. Not very scientific as there will only be the one pair of traps. Most of the others will get the SC and I still plan on baiting one trap with nothing but Lemon Pledge (just for s&g).


----------



## FlowerPlanter

I place a piece of paper towel in a snack zip lock baggie, spray once and zip closed. Swarm commander and LGO last all season. No need to refresh.

When one trap is being worker they all are. The scouts have no problem finding all my traps in a given area.


----------



## duckcarver

I am interested in recommendations for optimal use of Swarm Commander in swarm traps. Threads generally suggest that a little bit goes a long way and refreshing it is not necessary more than once per year.

I used SC for the first time last spring and had more success with it than LGO, but my results were inconclusive. As expected, traps made from old brood boxes caught with and without SC. I also caught swarms in recently painted traps made from new plywood with: (i) a q-tip dipped in SC and sealed (except for 1") in a ziploc bag, (ii) SC sprayed on the inside of the lid (1 pump), and (iii) SC sprayed (1 pump) outside near the entrance. The traps that I refreshed with a spray mid-season did not have any takers, but that could be location, over-application or both. 

Best practices or recommended applications?


----------



## Reef Resiner

Personally I prefer swarm commander and I'm guessing this is only one of several factors to why I'm having success.

I'm still yet to catch anything with LGO, although a lot of people have great success with both.

This will be going on to year 3 or 4 with SC.

Best of luck!


----------



## theriverhawk

I've used it in 10-12 swarm traps for 2 years now with over 20 swarms caught...3/4 of them being NOT my swarmed hives but instead wild swarms. Have also put straight lemon grass in some traps. 3:1 success ratio on the traps with Swarm Commander versus straight lemongrass oil. Did try some of the gel last summer. Worked but I will stick with the spray from now on. $60 investment($30 per summer), has turned into $2000+ worth of swarms based on $100 for a 3 lbs package of bees. But most swarms were larger than 3 lbs. I was tentative at purchase but sold on it after 2 years of use.


----------



## JWPalmer

I set out my first bait hive/swarm trap last weekend. Gave it a smear on the frames and entrance with LGO and 1 spray of SC. Warmer weather has me thinking early swarming. Got sent to the Swamp on Tuesday and won't be able to check on the trap until Friday eveving. Hope to see a scout or two when I get back. Will be setting traps in earnest starting next weekend. Hope this stuff delivers.


----------



## duckcarver

Riverhawk - congratulations on great success. 

I'd love to hear your preferences for application of Swarm Commander. How do you apply it to your traps (direct spray, in ziploc, inside/entrance/outside, etc.), how frequently, number of sprays/volume, etc.


----------



## theriverhawk

I use mostly 2 large inverted tree pots with a medium frame with old wax in it as traps. See much more success with these than with the wood boxes that I have made or converted to traps. I follow the directions on the bottle. A squirt or two directly into the entrance and a squirt or two on the outside near the opening. I refresh every 7-10 days. I have used a cotton ball for the inside. Two squirts on the cotton ball and just drop it in the hole.


----------



## odfrank

>Gave it a smear on the frames and entrance with LGO and 1 spray of SC. 
When I did that last year I had three that hung on the entrance and would not enter. I am not using both LGO & SCL together again. It is very inconvenient to have to go down and shake them in. Less is more in the case of lures.


----------



## OntarioBeeRescue

marant said:


> I have read the ads for Swarm Commander and wonder, does it really work?
> 
> Has anyone used it?


Totally , been using it for years - stuff is magic


----------



## Trin

I have read posts on this for a few years........So there are a lot of options....
I used plastic 20-25 gallon totes as swarm traps. I only had them out one year and caught one swarm that year, with a swarm finding one of those traps in my barn last early May. There are some video's out there on how to make these style traps. I also have some old deeps that I have placed for swarm traps. I usually have 4 old brood combs in them. The plastic traps got Swarm commander application. I also use slow release capsules with lemongrass oil in some. 

As I have mostly gotten to the sunset phase as far as ladders...I am thinking about building some lightweight boxes. The plan is to get some 8 ft. 2x4's and attach a board at 90 degrees to the end making a shelf with a brace. This way I can use 2 ratchet straps to fix it to a tree trunk. and a shot strap to hold the trap on the stand. If I am strategic with placement I can simply back the pickup truck to the swarm trap and plug the entrance after dark and remove the caught swarm. The trap will be bigger than a NUC. I hate to miss a large swarm that passes on a mini house. I will melt some wax and propolis and paint the inside of new traps. They will have the same 4 old frames. These can be frames that are destined for the melt pot. They don't have to be pretty. I also usually have one frame with some honey in it. Alternately you can drizzle some honey one a few frames. Yes the hornets might find it first but also some robber or scout bee might find it. Roll the dice. Check your traps as often as you can during prime swarm season. You might just spot a hanging swarm cluster.

Placement is important somewhat. Placing traps where you see field bees commonly is probably a good idea. ( I do notice areas bees are scarce) Along woods edges or in fence rows. In some areas you can't help but place them within a mile of another BK. If they don't even try to control swarming instinct, then in my opinion they are simply offering their bees back to mother nature and you might benefit. You could inform them if you caught a swarm nearby, but proving they came from their hives is a question. I try to be friendly all the same. Be a bee ambassador. A newbie would usually be grateful for helpful hints. 

I know the location of feral bee trees. So these areas will get traps.


----------



## 123989

Dang! This thread won’t die. I mean Jan 2014 to 3 days ago.😃


----------



## Buzzing Bee

There are two main types of swarms: overcrowding swarms and reproductive swarms.
A congestion swarm happens when honey bees feel stuffed in their space, they are bound to crowd. A couple of primary driver of a congestion swarm are:
Issue: Nectar being put away in the brood home.
Arrangement: add supers to give the honey bees more space.
Issue: Honey or dust in the brood home, keeping the sovereign from laying
Arrangement: eliminate outlines with nectar, add void casings. The honey bees will chip away at drawing brush and this will give the sovereign space to lay eggs
Issue: Too much traffic blocking the brood home
Anticipation: utilize a top access to give foragers a path in without going through the brood home.
Reproductive swarm
Numerous beekeepers believe that essentially adding a super will hold their honey bees back from amassing in the spring, however this isn't generally the situation. While the honey bees do see the value in the additional room for nectar stockpiling and to soothe blockage, yet with regards to the second kind of amassing, which is a conceptive multitude, an additional super may not have an effect.
In the spring, when the blossoms and trees start to sprout and honey bees start to get more dust, they likewise normally start to raise more brood to develop their settlement for the season. Every one of these new honey bees require food, so they start to eat their leftover nectar stores from the colder time of year.
As the honey bees eat, the nectar stores exhaust, which set aside increasingly more space for new brood. In any case, when the honey bees arrive at their own decided cutoff for brood, they'll start to prevent the sovereign from proceeding to lay eggs by creating and putting away nectar in the brood home indeed.
When the brood home is generally brimming with nectar, they begin to assemble swarm cells. When those cells start to be covered, it's now that the sovereign chooses to leave the hive with countless honey bees with her. Now, regardless of whether you get your multitude, the hive has halted brood creation and is down an enormous number of honey bees. You will be unable to have this hive make nectar. The leftover honey bees may crowd all alone, following one of the virgin sovereigns.
In the event that you notice your honey bees planning to crowd not long before the fundamental nectar stream, we suggest parting your hives.
A few beekeepers decide to do a split with the old sovereign, and keeping everything except one casing of the open brood. Leave the old hive with the covered brood, one edge of eggs/open brood, no sovereign and void supers. This forestalls new multitudes on the grounds that the old hive will not crowd without a sovereign and the new hive will not on the grounds that they have no foragers.
Clearly, the least demanding activity is watch your hives cautiously and forestall a multitude before it begins, instead of overseeing many more than one it's past the point of no return.
Opening the Brood Nest
Probably the simplest ways is to keep the brood home open and hold it back from inlaying, keeping those attendant honey bees occupied. In the event that you get it before they start sovereign cells, you can place some unfilled edges in the brood home, sandwiched between 2 edges of brood. The number of void edges you add relies upon how developed your group of honey bees is, since those vacant edges should be loaded up with honey bees and brush. When your sovereign tracks down this new brush, she'll start laying eggs. This new open brood home gives the medical caretaker honey bees something to do, which is assemble brush at that point go to brood, while extending the brood home.


----------



## AHudd

I guess dust must be pollen. I have never heard it called that!


----------

