# circle splits



## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

It's spring in New Zealand and here are some photos of a couple of hives turned into circle splits on site today.The swarm cells have been used to create the splits in these photos,the cells were about to emerge.

http://tinyurl.com/ybzfa9


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

Would this method work with bought queens, instead for squeezing all the bees into one box so they are force to raise queen cells.

The reason a am asking this, I would like to keep 80% off my bee stock buckfast x cecropia

Tony


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## lazybeestudio.com (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob:

How are things in NZ? Are you North or South Island? Just curious if the mites crossing over had an effect on your beekeeping?

I'd love to be in the southern hemisphere--I could start my bee season all over again--this year was a bummer in NE Ohio . . .

I'd like to get back to NZ someday . . . sorry, I'm off topic.

-J


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Tony
The circle splits will work just fine with bought queens,you need to leave the original base board in the centre for a time fore the bees to home into.It is a common practice in New Zealand to run single brood box hives for greater honey production.
Bob.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Lazybee
I am in the upper North Island,brood all year round.The 800 varroa infested hives in the South Island were all shipped back to the upper North Island several weeks ago ready for the feral erradication.I'm only 30 kilometers from the original varroa incursion in May 2000.Been selecting and breeding varroa resistant bees since the incursion.The Carniolan bee was introduced to New Zealand (semen) 2 years ago.Swarms are noticeably earlier in the season since their introduction.


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

>It is a common practice in New Zealand to run single brood box hives for greater honey production,

Do you go through the brood box every 7-day to cut out q/cells or do you keep a open brood box a long the lines that MB practises,

Or do you bait them up and whack on loads off supers to give them the space. 

If you are going for greater honey production how do you do it with out swarming with a single brood box?

I think your circle splits is a great way off making increases and getting equal number off bees to each split.

I did some splits my self this year and they werent that equal









Thanks

Tony


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

What are the chief advantages of the circle split over other methods.

[ October 23, 2006, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Aspera ]


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Tony
With the single brood box the the trick is not to allow a band of honey to build up above the centre brood frame.By keeping the centre brood frame clear of honey (nector management)the queen will lay right up to the top bar allowing unresticted movement upward to the first honey box(the bees winter stores)the 3 honey boxes above that are for extraction.There are variations in the first honey box set up depending on whether their is any crystalized honey frames to be reworked by the bees,new frames to be drawn or capped frames of honey.In all the above cases the frames would be alternated.Excluder is optional.Until the honey flow starts 3 sec queen cell checks are done every 10 days,just by tilting the bottom box.One of our queen breeders has reported in today's jounal that out of 700 hives he has had only 6 or seven hives that swarmed on single brood box hives.He has no varroa in his area as yet,but the single brood box apart from the greatly increased honey yeild has advantages with varroa control.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Aspera
The chief advantages with cirle splits are:

Splits remain on site.
Multi splits from one hive.
Even bee numbers per split (minimises drifting)


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Nice pictures. Never did a circle split. Looks interesting.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Bob:

I do not understand how an excluder could be optional. I would for sure have the queens lay in the second box. At that point I would consider the hive a 2 brood chamber colony.

I've done circle splits in the past, however have stopped since swithcing to pallets. U fortunately many of my yards are crowded and I do not have the room to spread out.

Jean-Marc


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

The excluder is just another management tool as are circle splits should a situation arise to make best use of either as was in the case in the photur out yards run normally 4 hives per pallet 2 metres apart.Last year I posted a photo of circle splits in that situation.Though I have never circle split all 4 hives on the one pallet at the same time,there would be no reason to not do it for a rapid on site circle split increase of say up to 25 nucs provided queens or cells were availiable with forward planing.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Bob:

I still do not get how an excluder could be optional if you want to run a single brood nest. I've run some single brood nests but never without an excluder.

About the feral eradication, isn't that what varroa does ? Is this some scheme to attempt to rid the island of varroa? There was some attempt here to rid the "Sunshine Coast" of varroa. It is on the west coast of B.C. It is directly north of Vancouver and there is a massive inlet making it accessible by boat or ferry or plane only. There are only a few beekeepers in the area with 1 sideline guy only (I believe) It didn't work so well.

If indeed the government is trying to rid the island of Varroa could you describe the plan. If you moved your bees North, I assume everybody else had to. Where would beekeepers get varroa free bees to restock the southern Island with?

Jean-Marc


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## busybguy (Apr 28, 2005)

jean-marc---what part of the valley are you at. I lived in Boston Bar for a while back in 1970, then moved on up to Dawson Creek, then back here to the East coast (New Brunswick)
I miss that area but this is home.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

In New Zealand it's a can do will do approach or find a way of doing it whether it be single queen single brood box or 2 queen single brood box hives running two queens all rear round to making nucs with virgin queens.

The feral erradication in the South Island of New Zealand is only in the upper most Northern tip.This has been delayed as the prefered product is not registerd for use with bees and a decission is being made on alternative products.Yes varroa does kill some ferals in the same season,but not all or fast enough to prevent the spread of varroa.All beekeepers both in the North and South Island have put a concerted effort in cash or kind into organising the South Island project to slow or in the process to possibly erradicate the varroa.Varroa is very serious for the South Island highland in relation to clover pollination by feral bees.The beekeepers have had a further public meeting earlier this week with all concerned as to the latest position with the erradication attempt in the Nelson area.The South Island is narrow and just under 600 miles in length.The bees to restock the erradicated area once the all clear is given will come from the lower South Island.Movement controls are in place.


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

>With the single brood box the trick is not to allow a band of honey to build >up above the centre brood frame.

Got that, uncap it and I would need to give them a super off drawn comb so they had somewhere to put the honey, 

>By keeping the centre brood frame clear of honey (nector management)the >queen will lay right up to the top bar allowing unresticted movement upward to >the first honey box,
But I would need to have a queen excluder between the brood and first super to stop the queen laying in the larger cells of the super frames, I dont winter with a super over the brood.

The only way I can see of doing this is to use 2 brood boxes as early in the year as I can and get it bursting with bees and do I cut down split just before the flow and put as many super as I can on.

Am I on the right line here?

Tony


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Sterling:

I live in Mission. I worked for a guy that used to run bees in the mountains for fireweed at Boston Bar. It's a neat area. I ran bees up to Fort St-John one season so I'm familiar with Dawson Creek. There's an economic boom in the area based on the oil patch.


Bob R:

I've never been to New-Zealand but what makes beekeepers believe that they can eradicate varroa? If beekeepers go about and attempt to kill the feral hives and miss one which happens to have varroa, then the effort is wasted. It seems to me that the movement restrictions would have a greater economic impact than varroa mites do.

How are your breeding efforts to varroa resistance coming along?

Jean-Marc


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Jean-Mark
>what makes beekeepers think they can erradicate varroa

This is a mammoth exercise of everyone working together with the support of all beekeepers both North and South.I was involved hands on in the original North Island incursion in 2000.As a office holder in the National Beekeepers Association it is best that reports on progress be made by those that are heading the operation.Here is a satellite view of New Zealand.The Nelson incursion is in the very upper left hand tip of the South Island.Zoom in to get a closer look of the area.

http://tinyurl.com/y8v9ye

You are so right if one feral gets missed.There is a large team and public support behind the location and reporting of any ferals.

Thanks for asking about my varroa resistant project,all is going well and into year 7.We now have the Carniolan bee that was introduced to New Zealand 2 years ago to contend with in the project(imported semen).Giving us three races of bees.There is another project underway in the UK headed by Ron Hoskins breeding varroa tolerant bees.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Bob:

What I find the most interesting is that beekeepers are taking action in a cause they believe in. To make a go of things I imagine nearly all beekeepers would have to participate at some level. And here I thought we were hopelessly individualistic.

Did somebody figure out how varroa ended up on the southern island? I mean if you are(NZ beekeepers) going to attempt to eradicate varroa from the southern island what will prevent history from repeating itself? If you were to be successful in eradicating varroa it would be disheartening to have varroa there again say in 2 years time. Best of luck.

Care to comment on the impact of varroa in New-Zealand.

Jean-Marc


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Bob,
Excellent lesson plan (pictures worth 1000 word) for circle splits. We've used this method for years and I can't imagine why I ever did them any other way.
I did note that you did your splits using queen cells which we often do as well. We gerneally find though that often a hive will swarm before the new queens emerge. Is there a specific time period you've found to be reliable that will pre-date the old queen leaving with the swarm?


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Is there a "Circle Splits for Dummies"?

Do you move the "mother hive" to the split
location some time prior??

How many frames of brood per Nuc do you
run??


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Tony
There was a chap from Kent that made a request to me seeking a postion in New Zealand for 6 months training with a commercial operation so he could set up his own bussiness.This was about 3 years ago,if I remember he stayed on longer and has since set up his own beekeeping operation.He would have had an excellent grounding in queen raising and splitting hives during his stay in New Zealand and he may not be to far from you.If you were going to try a single brood box hive you would need to organise your split or set up the hive from a nuc within the required time frame so as to be at maximum bee number strength by the time the main flow starts.You would intall your first honey box early in the build up over an excluder when you first see the bees starting to store nectar in the upper arch (above the brood)You say you do not winter with a honey box on.Do you winter with two brood boxes or just the one? You could do a side by side split from either.The bee numbers equilize very well by this method also.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Joel
What you are saying in regards to the queen swarming before the cells emerge is very true.In this case the two hives that were circle split had not swarmed due to the weather conditions.The hive in the photo that was split into 6 has the original queen identified in one of the splits.Usually I would move that split further out from the circle to prevent it from being over populated (bees finding the queen pheromone)The queen had thinned right down in readiness to swarm.The hive can swarm at any time from starting the cells right up to emergence or not swarm at all as in this case.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Sundance
You could move the hive to the location in advance if you so wished.Normally I just do them where they are for for what ever reason at the time.In the circle split in the photo that was split into 5, two full frames of brood and 2 frames of honey were used for each split.The top box of frames on the orginal single brood hive were all honey.The box of honey and bees can be seen in front of the 10 frames of brood and bees ready to split.My nuc boxes are 4 frame.They will have to be moved into full size boxes shortly after the queen has mated.(spring here in NZ)The number of brood frames used could be as little as one depending on the time of year giving concideration to the likely hood of robbing.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

jean-mark
Yes all beekeepers will be participating at some level in both Islands.They know they are working together for good reason.The most likely way varroa ended up in the South Island was by boat(Cook Straight Ferry crossing daily)We also held the National Beekeepers conference there a couple of years ago.Their is very tight surveilance at the wharfs.There is nothing to stop history repeating itself.More on the impact of Varroa in New Zealand to follow.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

We also set our winter yard up so spacing is set for spring circle splits. Sundance If you moved the hive I would want to let the bees have a chance to oreint to the new location for a full day. The spacing of the nucs around the parent hive is extremely important for equalization once the splits are done. We actually space the nucs and then watch incoming field bees and adjust the entrances slightly so we have a the bees re-orienting somewhat consistently to different nucs.

Thanks Bob. Sounds like we follow the same methodology in taking advantage of hives in swarm conditions with ripe queen cells. I didn't know if in your work you had found a "magic" won't swarm yet date.


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

>Do you winter with two brood boxes or just the one?

just the one brood box off 12 frames


Tony


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Bob:

Was it a swarm that took the ferry or a beehive from an unknowing hobbyist? If it was a swarm then I'm afraid that all these efforts will be wasted because the likelyhood of another swarm is probably pretty high.

What are the approved miticides in NZ? Any resistance to Apistan?

Jean-Marc


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

jean-mark

The varroa was transported via a feral hive in a mill log to the bottom of the North Island.How it crossed to the South Island is unknown.

The approved treatments for varroa in New Zealand are: Apistan,Bayvarol.Apivar,Api Life Var,Apiguard,Formic Acid,Oxalic Acid,Thymol and Food Grade Mineral Oil.If I have missed any I will edit.

There is no resistance to Apistan at this time after 6 years use.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

.
Mating nucs are very easy to make with those small hive when you carry hives to other place 5 km. 

Another thing is to use swarm cell to get new queens. That way you get very swarmy bee stock. Advances in beekeeping have based greatly to select stocks which do not swarm as nature says.

If you change larva in swarm cells you get selected queens.
.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Since swarming is one of the bees primary survival tactics, I think we have gone a long ways toward creating our current problems by breeding to supress swarming. This makes me think of the story of the domestic american turkey. We americans prefer the white meat of turkey breast over the darker meat. The turkey industry selectively bred for birds with larger breast muscle until they obtained today's market turkey. The breast muscle is so large that it gets in the way if the Tom trys to breed the Hen and the domestic turkey would become extinct in one generation without artificial insemination.

I prefer to deal with swarm management rather than try to eliminate it. Add swarm supression to our habit of crowding hundreds of hives into the same area and we get the same effect that has been produced by our modern huge cities. Oh well, can't stop progress, there are too many worshipers at the religion of progress.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

<I prefer to deal with swarm management rather than try to eliminate it>

Most of us don't care about swarming. I cut wing tip of queens to make their swarming difficult.


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