# Top bar sizes



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You think it's simpler, but it may not turn out that way. The Simplest if you really want them all the same size, is to make them all 1 1/4" and then make some 1/4" spacers. The reason is they will cheat smaller on the 1 3/8" when building brood comb and cheat bigger on the 1 3/8" when building honey comb. I find it's easier to not fight the bees. They seem content on the 1 1/4" in the brood area and the 1 1/2" for honey. I make half 1 1/4" and half 1 1/2".


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## SeaBee (Apr 28, 2008)

I built my original Warré topbars to 36 mm center-to-center pitch, 27.5mm width, 8.5mm gap.

To the nearest 1/16" that's 1 7/16" c-c, 1 1/16" W & 5/16" g. I had no problems with bridge comb or propolizing, so in my case deviating from strict 3/8" beespace was not a problem. The workers seem to dynamically adjust the cell draw depth depending on whether brood or stores are being built for.

That said, I'm inclined for my next build to shave the c-c pitch to 34mm = 1.34" to put the bar gaps closer to the orthodox 3/8"


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

I can understand wanting to keep all the bars the same size in order to keep everything a bit more simple/less complicated. This is what I wanted to do also. 

I keep all my bars 1 3/8 nches. I almost never have problems with the combs in the brood nest area (such as the bees slowly building them over to one side a bit more until they begin to cross over onto the next bar). Normally I have one bar with one comb that is in the center.

I will get some cross over with the honey combs, because they sometimes want to make them thicker. Normally this just happens on the last couple bars at the very end of the box. Being a bit careful, I can usually remove these combs fairly easily. I don’t consider it to be too much of a problem. And it’s honey so I’ll eventually cut off those combs anyways.

But at the same time, I can also see how a spacer could be useful.

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Tom


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## raosmun (Sep 10, 2009)

I have been doing a lot of reading on TBHs. and am in the process of building two (long Langs.) for deep frames now. Other than the style/bottom of the top bar, (flat with a waxed in grove or triangle), I will wire/monofiliment some for extracting and go frameless on the first 20 or so frames. 
However, I made all bars 1" wide (simply because that is what a standard frame is). To control the 3/8" bee space, I'll simply use a 3/8" spacer bar, if I want to intermix standard frames I can and put in a 3/16" spacer were they meet a 1" bar. Remove some spacers and put on a super, if desired.
Makes sense to me, the bees are another matter.
Comments accepted, with thanks.:scratch:


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## luigee (Nov 3, 2009)

for those that have different size bars...is there a specific "order" that you place them on top of the hive?

for example, if you have some bars that are 1-3/8 and some 1-1/4 do you place them like so..

1-3/8, 1-1/4, 1-3/8, 1-1/4, etc..

OR

1-3/8, 1-3/8, 1-1/4, 1-1/4, etc..

or how??:s


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

I think most people who use both sizes use the 1 1/4 bars in the brood area and 1 3/8 in the honey area. I just use 1 3/8 throughout and fix any crooked comb before it gets out of control.

Matt


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

luigee,

I believe it's 1 1/4" 1 1/4" 1 1/4" 1 1/4" (brood area)... 1 3/8" 1 3/8" 1 3/8" 1 3/8" 1 3/8" (honey area)

I'm not sure how they get spaced with an entrance in the middle...

Adam


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Two more questions:

First, in the design of the top bar, how do people keep the bar centered side to side. Some people us a bit of an edge, or use the starter strip, some not. What do you choose and why?

Second, for those with an entrance at one end, how do you inspect without a follower board at that end to create an opening? 

Adam


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> Two more questions:
> 
> First, in the design of the top bar, how do people keep the bar centered side to side. Some people us a bit of an edge, or use the starter strip, some not. What do you choose and why?
> 
> ...


I'm simply using two waxed popsicle sticks in a kerf on a 17" top bar. To keep them centered I just make sure I have the same amount protruding over each side.  I like these style for the simplicity since I'm generally making hundreds at a time. 

I use center entrances, but most people I know with end entrances do use follower boards. Without a follower board it is VERY difficult to get into a full hive without destroying at least one comb!

Matt


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Cacklewack,

How many top bars do you have in operation at the moment? 

Also, I know that you have to put in a follower board, but having a center entrance allows you to place a follower at BOTH ends. This gives you access to (theoretically) both the honey end, and the brood nest. If you have an end entrance, then it seems that you can only have one follower board in the honey end.

Does that mean that you've got to disrupt the whole hive to get at the brood nest when you've got only the one follower board in the hive with an end entrance? I mean, it seems that if you've got to start with pulling the follower out to get access to the bars, then you'd have to move them all, one by one, back until you reach the brood. To get to the bar closest to the entrance, you'd have to move ever single frame.

Is that right?



Adam


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Presently I have 8 horizontal top bar hives in the Portland, Oregon area. 

That is true about end entrances -- only one is necessary at the end where the honey combs are. 

In my own limited experience with end entrances you generally do need to start out moving through the combs toward the brood chamber. However, often you can pull out the first comb near the entrance (brood) as they don't usually put as many attachments on brood comb as they do honey comb since it isn't so heavy. 

You can move relatively quickly through a TBH without even fully-removing the combs once you get used to it. I'll often quickly cut the attachments and push them toward the sides/back in groups so that there is limited interference with the bees.

Matt


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Okay. So, in your opinion, is one following board enough?

Adam


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

I'm planning to make my next hives with side end entrances, but I will place them 12cm from the end then I can use a follower board at the brood end AND the honey end, maby only 1 bar width from entrance end, would make getting at brood area a bit simpler.


Sam.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I only plan on using one board. I use entrances on the ends, so I can't see much a need for a second follower board myself.

Big Bear


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