# Russell Apiaries



## green2btree

Check the older post "Russell apiaries" started on 2/22/12


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## Cordovan Italian Bee

Yes,that's when I placed my order,made a mistake on post I started About date.Are you with Russell ? I never received confirmation and they will not answer my E-mail,Why not ? Yes and you got my money.


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## Cordovan Italian Bee

donnjh said:


> Anyone have recent contact with Russell Apiaries? Placed an on-line order for queens with them on Jan 20. Payment went through but I have never received an order confirmation from them and all attempt to contact them have failed.


Did you contact Larry Chicoine ? He said he placed order last June I think he said and never got his queens and can't contact you either.


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## Specialkayme

green2btree's location is in Iowa. I doubt he is associated with Russell's.


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## Brackishwater

List of Certified Beekeepers in Mississippi 
http://www.mdac.state.ms.us/departme...acked_bees.pdf


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## donnjh

Do not understand what is going on with this company. As soon as I get time I will be contacting the Mississippi Attorney Generals Office to file a complaint against Russell Apiaries.


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## donnjh

Yea!
Had just posted above note when I received an email from Russell Apiaries! They are supposedly going to forward my receipt/order confirmation. Don't know why they are so hard to contact but maybe I can rest easier now.


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## thomas

As i remember he was on vacation with his family i also have sent him and pm about getting some virgins from him and he did contact me then i wrote him again and still waiting to hear from him i also called and all i got was a voice mail. If you run a company i would think someone should answer the phone but i guess not. I have one of his queens and really like her and wanted some virgins but i guess i will try some one else i have found some others but i do not know if they will be as good as russells queens. He really does need to contact people that want his queens thats good for bussiness but he does have good queens i give him credit on that .

Thomas Yancey


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## Barry

As with any business, consumers "vote" with their pocket book. Instead of complaining about this or that, I simply buy elsewhere. While on a trip this last week, I pulled into a station to fill up with diesel. Sign on pump said "pay inside first." I walk all the way in from the farthest pump and the casher says "how much?" I said "I want to fill it up." She said "you have to give me an amount to purchase." I said "I don't know what it will cost to fill it up." She said "that's the way it works." I said "See you later, I'll go buy my fuel across the street." I did, and I was able to use my credit card at the pump and the price was the same as the other one that gave me grief.

I don't care how good a product is, if I experience poor costumer service, I buy somewhere else.


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## jim lyon

Hmmmmmm customer satisfaction? Pretty radical concept Barry.


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## thomas

Barry has a point if you can not be there to help some one with your product then i would go else where if i can get the same product and can talk with the person who is selling if you do not talk with your customers then they will go else where. Which any time i order bees or queens i always talk to someone that can answer my questions and give me some feed back on what they have.

Thomas Yancey


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## Specialkayme

If you are dissatisfied with the company and would like to buy from somewhere else, by all means, do so!

Russell has more orders than he can fill. Many more are standing in line behind you to try and place an order. It's more like the Soup Natzi than it is like a limousine ride. Service might not be stellar, but the product more than makes up for it.


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## Barry

Again, you personally may view the product as the most important element in grading a company, over service. When there are many other companies that produce an equally quality product, then standing in line putting up with poor customer service isn't necessary. My point in all this is, instead of trying to get "your" supplier (whoever it is) to do better in serving "you", move on to one that will.


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## Specialkayme

Barry, have you purchased a queen from Russell?


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## Barry

It's an irrelevant question. Like me asking you have you purchased a queen from Weavers or Koehnen or Glenn or Rossman or Kona. This thread isn't about queen quality. I'm addressing the OP about service.

Oh, I forgot . . . Olivarez, VP Queen Bees, Purvis . . .


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## green2btree

No, I am not associated with Russell's, I just saw the earlier post where people said they were not able to contact Russell's.

JC


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## seal62

Specialkayme said:


> Barry, have you purchased a queen from Russell?


 Im not Barry but i have .. 35 so far . Waiting for delivery in early may on 10 moonbeams, that i payed for last may . You know what ive found out ? They are bees . My comments at the time almost got me banned . I'm on thin ice so i have to choose what i say very carefully , both Barry and Bob . Bob says he stands behind his bees , a couple of us are waiting on that . That aside it set me back a year . How much is a year worth to your operation ? I should be selling nucs this spring , a little cost recovery . Now my spring splits are going into my boxs . Call me old school .. I want to talk to someone . I sure understand the issues with weather , my grandson has a tornado helmet . Really . I like to pick up the phone ,,pay and have that product shipped out . If that product is not in stock ,,tell me . I see alot of comments that the wait is worth it . Not too sure about that , I only know what i see . The best bees i got didnt come from Bob . Keep in mind that i dont have years of beeking , I just know when to add another box . I like the queens with the most boxs . See this is a tough call ,,i got bobs late .. suprise . If you need a q fast ,,,just check the for sale ads on beesource . Ya make a new contact and get a pretty good queen . Brac even shipped me one when irine hit .It did take a couple days extra in shipping . My point is human nature ,,,you see the hype and gotta have that item ..something to fix my golf swing ( tin cup) ..something to get more ducks . I just got a duck decoy mounted on a radio controled boat . Thats soo gonna work . A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush , but one in the hand is dinner .


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## MrHappy

thomas said:


> I have one of his queens and really like her and wanted some virgins but i guess i will try some one else i have found some others but i do not know if they will be as good as russells queens.


Why don't you try to make a new queen yourself from the Russell Queen you have? It will be a virgin queen that will auto populate with the drones in your area. Would there be much of a difference?


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## seal62

Oh, I forgot . . . Olivarez, VP Queen Bees, Purvis . . .[/QUOTE] you left off gia, wootens , glens , fergusons , kinda long list . For those i missed sorry ,,,Ohh that kelley hygenic is a good bee .


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## Specialkayme

Barry said:


> When there are many other companies that produce an equally quality product





Barry said:


> It's an irrelevant question. . . . This thread isn't about queen quality.


You appear to be the one that is bringing up quality of the product. It's reasonable to ask what basis you have for evaluating the quality of the product. If you have not seen the product first hand, how can you evaluate it? How can you claim it is "equal" to others in the industry?

To talk about the customer service, when you have not experienced it first hand, or to talk about the quality of the product as it relates to others in the industry, when you have not experienced it first hand, is a little beyond the point of a consumer reports thread, is it not?


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## Specialkayme

Barry said:


> Like me asking you have you purchased a queen from Weavers or Koehnen or Glenn or Rossman or Kona.
> Oh, I forgot . . . Olivarez, VP Queen Bees, Purvis . . .


I don't understand your point. This thread isn't about the Weavers, Koehnen, Glenn, Rossman, Kona, Olivarez, VP Queen Bees, Purvis, or any other provider. The subject line is very clear. It's about Russell, his company, his product, and his customer service. If you haven't ordered from him, haven't tried his product, and haven't experienced his customer service, why are you evaluating the same?


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## Barry

Specialkayme said:


> You appear to be the one that is bringing up quality of the product. It's reasonable to ask what basis you have for evaluating the quality of the product. If you have not seen the product first hand, how can you evaluate it? How can you claim it is "equal" to others in the industry?


What basis do you have for "evaluating the quality of the product"?

I've purchased bees and queens from various suppliers, some that I listed.


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## Barry

Specialkayme said:


> If you haven't ordered from him, haven't tried his product, and haven't experienced his customer service, why are you evaluating the same?


Listen, this thread isn't about you or your experience, so quit trying to make it that way. I responded to the OP, who had a negative experience with customer service. Being one of the members here, I have every right to give my thoughts on the topic. If you don't like the customer service, go somewhere else to buy your bees. Talk with your money. You then made a judgment call saying his bees were so much better and worth putting up with poor customer service. So I asked you, have you experienced firsthand bees and queens from the other suppliers I listed? If not, you have no basis for your evaluation. Get it?


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## Barry

Specialkayme said:


> The subject line is very clear. It's about Russell, his company, his product, and his customer service.


No it's not about his product. You're trying to make it about his product though. The subject is "Russell Apiaries". The OP defines what it's about. Nothing stated about product quality.


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## seal62

Specialkayme said:


> I don't understand your point. This thread isn't about the Weavers, Koehnen, Glenn, Rossman, Kona, Olivarez, VP Queen Bees, Purvis, or any other provider. The subject line is very clear. It's about Russell, his company, his product, and his customer service. If you haven't ordered from him, haven't tried his product, and haven't experienced his customer service, why are you evaluating the same?


 Then ask me ...customer service ,,, none,,,product ,,yes they are bees ..


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## MrHappy

Barry isn't saying that Russell's bees and service aren't good. Others are. Barry is just pointing out that there are TONS of other choices and that until people try ALL of them, THEY can't say that one brand or another is the BEST quality. If you don't like the service at one place, go to another. If you don't like the quality at that place, go to another. There are tons to try. You might find out that someone out there will provide all the points that you are looking for. Like on Seinfeld, anyone can make the same product as the Soup Nazi, you just need to look around and try different places.

If you are willing to put up with the service because you think it's the one you like, then great. As said before, Russell's has more orders than they can keep up with so they aren't going anywhere any time soon. You just might not either if they can't get to you until the next year.


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## TwinkieBee

I work at Russell Apiaries part time. What is it that you guys are needing? A confirmation email for your order? Check your spam box, those emails are automated by paypal. We would be able to respond to people a whole lot faster, but unlike ALL of the other guys that were mentioned, Russell doesnt just help people that are paying him. We receive hundreds of emails every day this time of year from people in all parts of the world asking for advice. Like Russell says, This isnt walmart. If you just want a click and ship product and service, go get it elsewhere. We dont do that. The only reason that we have a website putting our queens out there for just anyone to buy is because Russell likes to help folks so much. Its not for the money, trust me. I saw the year end reports and there was a really big drop in profits after all of the extra expense of trying to cater to the "click and ship" public. We were all shocked when he just said, oh well buckle in and press on. His losses were like four times what my husband and myself bring in in a year. It would have been much more easy and profitable for him to just say NO and stick to providing the large commercials but he takes the hit for the little guys like us to have high quality queens from stocks that havent been crossed with russian bees. Dont see Russell on this site anymore do you? Can you blame him?


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## Vance G

Barry constantly makes snide remarks about Russells and other commercial beeks. It will be a definate loss in quality if Dr. Russell has decided he is not welcome here. As the lady said, he ain't walmart and it surprised me when he was still filling the onsies and twosies orders this year. I am just real happy to get the genetics and when I was trying to raise wheat for a living, I couldn't harvest it before it was ripe. They wouldn't take it at the elevator til the misture content was low enough for the grain to store. A supplier can't sell a queen til it is well mated and laying well. It is unfortunate that his office staff is buried. But I don't think he is in the business of defrauding anyone. The majority of his customers are happy or he wouldn't be grafting 150,000 cells a year. That is a WAG! But it has to be close to that.


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## TwinkieBee

HAHA! I just told him about this thread and he said, Some folks like changing tires so they buy may-pops and some folks like replacing hives so they buy whatever is cheapest from who ever has them. Then he said, I buy tires that I can depend on to keep my family safe and if I have to wait for them because they are on back order, so be it. That just means that the company is taking their time and doing things right and they are staying sold out because the product is excellent. He finished with saying, dont worry there are more people out there that are more concerned with getting safe tires than there are risking their wives and kids. Most of our customers depend on their bees in one way or another and some feed their families on that income just like we all do here. they will always choose to a productive hive over a quick response.

I asked him if I could quote him on that and he just shrugged his shoulders and walked off so there you have it. I think that he makes a good point about who should order from him and who should go get may-pops. 

For the record, he buys queens to test from all over every year and never hurries any of the suppliers. I my self tried to get breeder queens from Glen, queens from honeyrun apiaries, and queens from zia and vp to play with and never had any response to several emails and phone calls. Its just the nature of the business. At walmart the items are made by someone else then sold by walmart. Here we make the product and sell it, so we can only do so much at one time. He will be traveling again soon and even we will not be able to reach him. He creates great queens and that is where he needs to be, not on the phone talking about them but in the field producing them.


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## Barry

Interesting how the deflect of the OP starts in. Change the discussion to "quality" and away from customer service issues raised.


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## TwinkieBee

I answered the customer service issue first. Check your spam box. The issue that you keep going back to is not with us here, but with an email service filtering out automated emails. 

On top of that, both Russell and myself have directly addressed the customer service concerns. The entire post 28 is about that and the majority of post 30.


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## Barry

TwinkieBee said:


> We would be able to respond to people a whole lot faster, but unlike ALL of the other guys that were mentioned, Russell doesnt just help people that are paying him. We receive hundreds of emails every day this time of year from people in all parts of the world asking for advice.


That's his choice to do that. But to use this to excuse those that are experiencing poor customer service and put down ALL the other bee producers is quite arrogant to say the least.


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## Barry

Vance G said:


> Barry constantly makes snide remarks about Russells and other commercial beeks.


Please quote me.


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## Barry

TwinkieBee said:


> I think that he makes a good point about who should order from him and who should go get may-pops.


Are you making the claim that Russell sells the best bees in the country? All other suppliers are "may-pops"?



> He creates great queens and that is where he needs to be, not on the phone talking about them but in the field producing them.


Yes, that would make good business sense. I'm sure those that are complaining of customer service don't insist that Robert call them himself. That should be your job, or another employee's job.


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## Specialkayme

Barry said:


> Listen, this thread isn't about you or your experience, so quit trying to make it that way.


Seriously Barry? You are trying to flip this on me?

You mentioned speaking with your money. I agreed. More room for me in the market. I know what I'm getting, and I'm happy with it. If that means you don't want to order from them, I'm more the merrier for it. You then told me the quality was the same as others. But you have no basis for this, as you have never tried his product. How is that based on my experience?



Barry said:


> You then made a judgment call saying his bees were so much better


Please find me a quote in this thread where I said that. This is what I've said:



Specialkayme said:


> Service might not be stellar, but the product more than makes up for it.


I said his bees were good. I never said they were "so much better" nor did I compare it to anything. Read before you so quickly comment.



Barry said:


> So I asked you, have you experienced firsthand bees and queens from the other suppliers I listed? If not, you have no basis for your evaluation. Get it?


Sure. A reasonable request.

I have ordered from Kona, Rossman and Olivarez, from those you have listed. I have also purchased from Bjorn, 7 Stands (running a line from Glenn), and Jack Tapp (running a line of MH). I have not purchased any queens from any other suppliers you have mentioned. I would concede that I have just as much right to compare Russell queens with them as you do . . . but last time I checked I wasn't comparing the two . . .


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## Specialkayme

Barry said:


> The subject is "Russell Apiaries".


So why are you talking about Kona, Glenn . . .


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## TwinkieBee

Barry said:


> Please quote me.


Ok, the post directly above your quote me post. So now you are calling him arrogant because he helps bee keepers? No one made any excuses for poor customer service and I have Never heard him say anything bad about Any other producer. Most are his close friends. Your right about one thing, it Is His choice to decide what is most important to him and operate his business the way he wants to, not yours. Your presence in this conversation is evidence of your personal issue with him and better proves Vancegs point anyway. You have never had any experience with the company, but you sure rushed to make a bunch of negative posts about it and overexagerate the issue in the thread from a simple filtered email that was addressed as soon as I saw it to customer service issues that you keep throwing around.

Yes I beleive that Russell Queens are the best in the nation. I know I can count on them in my hives, but do not know about the others. And no I have never used the others, but I work with them every year in the test yards and see first hand what percentages of losses they have. Have you never read the stories on your own site? There are plenty of them. We work with most all of the people that you listed but yes a few of those are what I would call may-pops and that is MY opinion not Russell Apiaries and I only say that because I have personally worked with them.

Please do not start trying to tell me what my job is. I know my job very well and I respect the girls and guys that work here fulltime who work their rear ends off only to have someone that has never even bought from the company to start pointing fingers at who he thinks is a weak link. For your information, we took 4 phone calls Today that insisted that they speak with Russell to ask his opinion before they placed an order. There were 211 emails Today and thats a slow day. 49 of those emails requested a response from Russell directly. That leaves 77 phone calls answered by myself and another staff member and we got our quota of 140 emails each answered. Then I picked up my sons from school, got them home and started supper and a load of laundry so my husband will have clean close for work, and sit down to read the forums while the boys cleaned up for supper. And what does beesource have for me to read? The site owner insuating that I am not doing my job. Russell is reserved, I am a proud southern woman and will roar back when needed, so please point your crooked finger elsewhere.


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## Specialkayme

TwinkieBee said:


> Your presence in this conversation is evidence of your personal issue with him . . . You have never had any experience with the company, but you sure rushed to make a bunch of negative posts about it and overexagerate the issue


Clap!


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## Barry

TwinkieBee said:


> I am a proud southern woman


Yes, that's very clear.


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## TwinkieBee

Have issues with southern women too huh. Trust me, that doesnt bother me at all. Just remember that you have a lot of members that are women and a lot that are southern that are reading this too.


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## Fishman43

While I am not southern (born in CA, now a proud New Englander) and not a woman, this thread seems to have gone wildly off topic. I am a new beek and just recently ordered two (yup only 2) queens from Russell Ap. with my little bitty order of two queens I also sent an email (probably my third or fourth over the past few months) requesting some info. Each and every time I have emailed customer service at Russell I have received prompt and pleasant responses that have helped me on this new journey of learning bee keeping. I thank the good folks at Russell and look forward to trying their queens. If their customer service for a little guy in the far northeastern corner is any indication of their overall customer service then they will continue to build a successful business and thrive!


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## TimnEsther

I am happy with Russell on all counts. I don't expect to see any queens at the PO til after the shipping dates listed on their website. I also am not expecting to be coddled by customer service. I do come to bee source and search for posts by rrussell6870. Some of the best threads on this sight are contributed to by him. They will let you know when your queens are ready and shipping. Relax. Enjoy your bees. You will get a great product. I you need to talk, get a dog (or get married).


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## TwinkieBee

THANK YOU Fishman43 and TimnEsther!


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## Joseph Clemens

I only ordered two Russell Apiaries SunKist Cordovan queens, the post office killed those first two, Russell Apiaries immediately sent a double set of replacements, two again by USPS, and the second set by UPS Next Day Air. This time both sets arrived in excellent health. From my experience Russell Apiaries has both very excellent customer service and exceptional product. I greatly appreciate having connected up with them last year. The SKC queens I obtained from them and the daughters I've raised from them have been some of the most resilient bees I've dealt with, yet.


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## virginiawolf

I found Russell Apiaries last year after being on this site. I ordered queens from them last season. They came here perfectly and they were very helpful to me. I ordered from them because it became apparent to me that they were very pro beekeepers big and small and really cared about the future of honeybees. I joined the Russell website and learned about their incredible family history in Beekeeping. Last year the weather was tough for breeding because of rain and there were tornadoes that hit their area and they still got bees to me. I'm a relatively new beekeeper and feel privileged to have some of The Russell Apiaries Bees in my yard. I ordered some queens this year too a Moonbeam and a German Black Bee and I'm excited to get them. When the queens are ready and things line up I'm sure they will be shipped to me in good health. The Sunkist bees are beautiful. I had a dream in the fall that I was at a Russell Apiaries Barbecue in Mississippi. LOL It was a cool dream. Whenever I see Russell anything on here I read it


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## thomas

Well Mr. Happy i am going to raise queens from the one i got from Russell and i do not have a problem with his bees the ones i have seen blows my mind. As for what i am doing is very different and he knows what he is doing. Now twinkiebee thanks for the pm if you can help me with what i need then we can talk some more Russell is busy and the queen i got from him came late from when i ordered her but she made up for being late and is doing darn good now i admit i was a little worried about ordering but i was reassured that thing s are going to be good so i am all in thanks Twinkiebee.

Thomas Yancey


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## Gypsi

I'm a southern woman. And I see Russell queens in my future.
Gypsi


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## jim lyon

I am having a little trouble understanding the vitriol I am hearing. I have ordered a lot of queens from many suppliers through the years and almost universally I would contact the office and ask about availability. They can almost always tell you how far out they are on bookings and give you an approximate shipping date. What if anything they might require down would usually be determined by your history as a customer. Payment is always due on receipt or if they don't know you then it would be due before shipment. it would not be unusual to hear that your date is getting pushed back because of weather issues or bad catches. I have never purchased from Russells but based on what I have read on here he has many happy customers but I think it's also fair to say that there are at least a few unhappy ones. I don't really think Barry was out of line by suggesting that as a consumer you always have the option of taking your business elsewhere. Perhaps someone could explain how the order process works there. Is there a target ship date at the time the order is placed and any procedures in place to keep anxious customers up to date if it appears those dates are being pushed back? I completely understand the problems of running a business such as this, I also think it is fair to say that there are probably some weaknesses in the system that need addressed. If I might also state that a common theme with breeders is pride in their product, Russells aren't alone in that. I have yet to have someone tell me they believe their bees are the second best available.


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## TwinkieBee

We have three sets of customers. All of which get to pick their PREFERRED ship date and we try to stick to that as closely as we can. When a schedule gets filled, we close off those dates of availability. 

New or Basic customers place their orders online or through the mail. 

VIP customers are given hand chosen queens by Russell himself and select stock. 

Then we have our Long Term customers, some of which have been buying several thousand queens from us every year for the past 40+ years. These have a long established credit with us and so they dont pay until the queens ship or they pick them up. 

We cage queens Sunday through Thursday and ship Monday through Thursday. There are some logistics involved, but that is the simplified version.

When the order is placed paypal automatically sends two emails, one to the buyer and one to the office. This is the confirmation/receipt email. The email that we receive is printed and put in a separate file for each customer. The data from each order is uploaded into our systems and the caging schedule is broken up by strain and is then uploaded to the portals for each strains mating operation. They use this system as a foresight to begin producing each cycle of queens on a strick schedule. When the queens are caged they are raced to the regional postal hubs that are closest to the mating operation, then they are bundled by order and placed on the trucks after everything else is loaded so they will be the first to get unloaded.


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## JohnAllen

I am very satisfied with the customer service from Russell Apiaries. It sometimes has taken a few days but they responded to every email that I have sent them. The queens I ordered last year arrived later than expected but it was because of weather problems. It worked out okay for me because we had a cold wet spring here and hives weren't really ready to split when scheduled anyway. Russell's didn't just ship the queens when they became available but emailed first and asked if I was ready for them. I thought that was a nice touch. They shipped them out that same evening and I picked them up at 10:30 the next morning. Their email response was very fast when it counted (the day the queens were ready).

I imagine that there are other queen producers whose product is on a par with Dr. Russell's but I am happy to purchase from him mostly because I have seen how he has gone out of his way to help some of the other forum members. I am grateful that he is supporting those of us who order small quantities.


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## TwinkieBee

jim lyon said:


> I am having a little trouble understanding the vitriol I am hearing. I have ordered a lot of queens from many suppliers through the years and almost universally I would contact the office and ask about availability. They can almost always tell you how far out they are on bookings and give you an approximate shipping date. What if anything they might require down would usually be determined by your history as a customer. Payment is always due on receipt or if they don't know you then it would be due before shipment. it would not be unusual to hear that your date is getting pushed back because of weather issues or bad catches.


There is nothing different here.



jim lyon said:


> I don't really think Barry was out of line by suggesting that as a consumer you always have the option of taking your business elsewhere.


Thats what I have been saying. You buy a product based on whats important to you. By all means, buy what you want. But making 12 or 13 negative posts in one thread when you have no experience at all with a company is out of line.


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## wildbranch2007

TimnEsther said:


> I you need to talk, get a dog (or get married).


I like it, thats why I play with bees, they don't talk.


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## Specialkayme

jim lyon said:


> I don't really think Barry was out of line by suggesting that as a consumer you always have the option of taking your business elsewhere.


I don't think he was out of line for suggesting that either. I 100% agree. Actually, I fully promote that idea as much as possible.



jim lyon said:


> I have yet to have someone tell me they believe their bees are the second best available.


Can I be the first? Lol. I don't have enough years of breeding experience behind me to produce the best queens. I'm not even sure if I could say I have the _second_ best available, lol. But they do the trick!


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## Oldtimer

Re the customer service side, as a one time commercial breeder myself, I would hazard to say that it's a virtual impossibility to give 100% excellent customer service, every time.

I think a business selling non perishables probably could. But what happens in queen breeding is you are taking orders pretty much 12 months of the year, and recording peoples preferences as to when they want their order shipped. You have to match this up with what you think you can produce, but when the time comes weather and whatever else can go wrong, somebody is not going to get what they want, when they want it. Now at the same time, when it was main season and I was trying to meet commitments, I can remember starting work 5.30 in the morning, basically running all day, and sometimes working bees by the truck lights at night. Just to try to get it all done. There just was not time to contact all those people however much of a good thing that would have been.

So bottom line, was the great majority of people were fully satisfied. But the very nature of the business means there's going to be a few situations you wish you could have done better. I think this will be common to all queen breeders, except ones that don't have a waiting list.


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## guyross

Twinkie one of your responses could have been what saved my bees in October. Thanks for your help. I know there were two ladies there giving me good advice when the Doc was out of town.


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## jim lyon

OT:True enough. I am not here to impugn the Russell operation which I have no first hand knowledge of. The simple fact remains, though, that bad news travels much faster than good news does. Customer service is a big issue with any business that deals with the general public. Poor customer service or even the image of poor customer service can bring down businesses regardless of the quality of their final product. From my perspective (and this is speaking as a commercial) I don't care how good someones queens may be, if they are a month or more late they are of virtually no use to me. I am not suggesting that this happens much in this case only that timeliness is a very, very important part of the whole customer service scenario.


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## Gypsi

I run an aquatics service business. We deal with livestock in a very narrow temperature window when a pond can be serviced, fully drained, without killing the large koi. I handle all customer contact, and am on every job site. Since many other pond services folded, and our high temps came on too early, last year there were more ponds than days with the weather that would allow us to service them, until November, when I proceeded to get involved in a wreck with a semi - Sometimes I drop the ball. Here's hoping for a profitable spring with mostly happy customers for all of us. At least the ones I got to last year want us back...

Gypsi


----------



## adamf

TwinkieBee said:


> For the record, he buys queens to test from all over every year and never hurries any of the suppliers. I my self tried to get breeder queens from Glen, queens from honeyrun apiaries, and queens from zia and vp to play with and never had any response to several emails and phone calls. .


We have never received an email from you. We might have missed a phone message becasue we lost a bunch in August, 2011. We'd be more than happy to provide breeder queens for you!

When we can't produce because of weather conditions, we inform our customers ASAP and give them the option of waiting or a full refund. We have lost some I'm sure becasue we didn't deliver on "time". 99% of our customers are fantastic, however!

Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com


----------



## Specialkayme

jim lyon said:


> I don't care how good someones queens may be, if they are a month or more late they are of virtually no use to me.


I would agree with you on a limited basis. If I need a queen to do a split, if it's a month late I lost a swarm, and then the split queen is of no use to me. We are on the same page as far as that goes.

But Russell does not market his queens mainly for splits and re-queening duds. He will tell you that as well. He markets his queens based on their genetics. You don't order (hopefully) a queen from Russell's for splits or re-queening. You order them to increase your overall genetic makeup. Then, drones in your area are better off, next years supersedures and reared queens are better, and so on.

I think it goes back to that tire analogy. If you want a certain type of tire, and it's on back order, you can't predict when it will be available. So, you either ride out the tire you have, or buy a replacement and wait for the tire you really want to come back in stock. When it does, either throw the old tire away or sell it to someone else.


----------



## KevinR

Russell has always responded to my PM's on the forums, but I can't say the same for emails to the website asking about products, shipping quotes or queen dates. I ended up ordering 20 queens from other producers.

If they are that covered up, I think it's time to hire some temps to answer the phone/email. That or Russell can barter queens/bees with me for a new website that can handle some of the heavy lifting.


----------



## seal62

Another thread spinning out of control . I'm regretting i was a participant when i know better . Watch a bee vid and chill a bit . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyJjJqfHik&context=C3c1c6d6ADOEgsToPDskIkroddkADXqvTRtCmA3FEg


----------



## Arkansas Beekeeper

We ordered 10 nucs from Russell several months ago for early spring delivery. No confirmation. We have left several voice messages. No answer. We have emailed several times. Unanswered. I recognize that this is not Wal-Mart but what the heck. Nice web site. No problem processing payment. If you have mastered the technology to produce web sites and process payments. ANSWER THE PHONE OR SEND AN EMAIL.


----------



## beeG

TwinkieBee said:


> Have issues with southern women too huh. Trust me, that doesnt bother me at all. Just remember that you have a lot of members that are women and a lot that are southern that are reading this too.


I am in on that count twinkie ..Proud Southern Woman ( Non-union) here... I have your back


----------



## Greg Lowe

Had trouble posting a response. But I sent an email inquiry to the email address listed on the "Contact" page of their website earlier today about an order and received a very timely response. I am MOST satisfied with my experience 
Thank you VB at Russell Apiaries!


----------



## amethysta

Greg Lowe said:


> Had trouble posting a response. But I sent an email inquiry to the email address listed on the "Contact" page of their website earlier today about an order and received a very timely response.


Feh. I did the same thing about an order that I placed in November and have not heard anything back yet.


----------



## Gypsi

I ordered woodware in early January, and by late February hadn't seen it. Emailed, they refunded my paypal but let me know they would still ship my woodenware when it came in. I needed stuff built so I got a bunch from Dadant - a friend picked it up in Paris and saved me the shipping. I got a surprise visit from UPS today - from Russell Apiaries. Big box of woodenware. (order was about a hundred dollars.) No advance notice. Now I can see if this were queens it might be a problem, many days I am on the road until quite late, and a queen sitting in my mailbox would be cooked. But because I know this if I did order Russell queens I'd merge my order with a friend who is at home more, let them receive and call me. And one day, I will order Russell queens. 

The quality of the product and the quality and quantity of communication aren't the same thing.

Gypsi


----------



## Brackishwater

The state of Mississippi requires certification to sell Bee's and Queens. Might want to stick with the folks on the list. Here's the link to the list that was updated Nov. 2011. Our state inspector for the southern district is Charles Wilson 601-544-3866 or email: [email protected] 

http://www.mdac.state.ms.us/departments/bpi/pdf/bpi_honey_packed_bees.pdf


----------



## Gypsi

Since my first choice for bees would be Texas suppliers, I see no reason to read the Mississippi list. If I got a Russell queen she would be a very special purchase indeed, and nothing would convince me to buy any other breed.


----------



## RiodeLobo

I am also a very happy Russell Apiaries customer. In my limited experience they are the best queens I have owned. The service was great, as they delayed my order at my request to accommodate changes in my schedule due to the delay in the availability of nucs and when there was an issue with the order they not only made it right they included several extra queens to compensate. If I have any negatives in service it would be the delay in response time, but when I was contacted back the results were beyond satisfactory.
I have ordered more queens for this spring and will continue to use them in the future.

PS checked the hives at lunch. 45F and overcast with light wind. 5 for 5 working and 3 really getting after it. All Russell's.


----------



## NDnewbeek

Brackishwater said:


> The state of Mississippi requires certification to sell Bee's and Queens. Might want to stick with the folks on the list. Here's the link to the list that was updated Nov. 2011. Our state inspector for the southern district is Charles Wilson 601-544-3866 or email: [email protected]
> 
> http://www.mdac.state.ms.us/departments/bpi/pdf/bpi_honey_packed_bees.pdf


I wondered about that when I saw this list earlier in the year. Can you sell queens in MS without being on this list? And if not, how is Russell able to sell queens?

Or is this 'registration' optional?


----------



## TwinkieBee

He doesn't produce queens in Mississippi. His home is here so there is an office here and a research yard here. Mississippi is where his dad's operation was. Robert has always had bees all over. Robert's brother killed almost all of his dad's hives by stealing nucs out of them during beetle season. His dad asked Robert to step in and save what was left when he found out what the brother was doing. Then Robert's dad passed away and Robert still keeps up the last few hives that his dad had for sentimental purposes and uses them to study different issues so that other people can use the research to keep their bees alive. The bees that Robert's brother took are all dead now. 

For what its worth brackishwater, the research yard was inspected this season by the director of bpi and was approved. Russell will be on that list soon just to stop people from spreading confusion like that.


----------



## TwinkieBee

Bgee and gypsi, right on girls!

Amethysta, send me a pm with your name and question if you haven't heard anything back from the email yet. 

Everyone, there is a page on our site called "Shipping & Dates" that has the answers to most of the questions that we receive. There is also a category called "Updates" in our forums that can answer even more questions. Take a look at these places to see if your questions have already been answered before emailing or calling please. Thank you!


----------



## NDnewbeek

TwinkieBee said:


> He doesn't produce queens in Mississippi. His home is here so there is an office here and a research yard here. Mississippi is where his dad's operation was. Robert has always had bees all over. Robert's brother killed almost all of his dad's hives by stealing nucs out of them during beetle season. His dad asked Robert to step in and save what was left when he found out what the brother was doing. Then Robert's dad passed away and Robert still keeps up the last few hives that his dad had for sentimental purposes and uses them to study different issues so that other people can use the research to keep their bees alive. The bees that Robert's brother took are all dead now.


TwinkieBee -

Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense. Do you know where his yards are where he produces his queens?

Mike


----------



## BoTBees

I did not have success with Russell,


----------



## wildbranch2007

TwinkieBee said:


> Robert still keeps up the last few hives that his dad had for sentimental purposes and uses them to study different issues so that other people can use the research to keep their bees alive.
> 
> the research yard was inspected this season by the director of bpi and was approved. Russell will be on that list soon just to stop people from spreading confusion like that.


Since Russell doesn't post here any more, could you answer a question for me, in the research yard last year Russell was experimenting with treating AFB hives with toslin and monitoring them to see if it returns. Since it was inspected can I assume that the treating with toslin cured the afb or did he end up burning the hives? thanks


----------



## TwinkieBee

ND, there are mating and selection pool yards in 14 states. The acclimation program is expanding this season also. Robert Hughes was telling me that by the end of this season Russell should have selection pools in 46 of the 50 states being specifically selected for success within each state. 

Wildbranch, I will ask him. I know that the hives are all still alive and look very good. They have a big red stripe across the lid and I have seen guys taking samples from them a lot since last season. I don't know exactly what they have found yet but will ask and post about it.


----------



## MichaBees

Can anyone tell me how to get the rest of my wood ware I ordered in December?
Emails to the site do not work
Emails to Dr. Russell are not answered 
Postings on his site just disappear... 

Are the Mayan prophesies real? 
Have the predictions taken their first victims for 2012?
Is this a case of SCD? (Supplier Collapse Disorder)


----------



## kenr

Folks they've had another big hit with the weather lost the main office and from what I've read stopped all queen shipments until the 16th of this month was expecting six queens last week for splits and knew I wasn't going to get them so I went ahead and split my hives.


----------



## BGhoney

*Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I ordered 9 queens from Russel Apiaries the 8 weeks ago, delivery for the second week of april. I emailed them again beginning of this week, no response . Just tried calling and there voice mail is full and no longer recieveing messages. Thats kinda nice, do I wait for there queens to maybe show or get some coming from someplace else and hope theres dosn't. I would think I would of gotten an email about a shipping date by now..I've heard they have great queens, but I'm not impressed with the service.. 

The Queens are not late at this point, checking there web site there shipping dates are the same. I'm just wondering if they ever got my order in the first place. I'll wait a week and see if I hear anything.


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

And customers who check their website. 

From their 2012 updates.

"At this point it looks like we are going to have to postpone shipping queens until April 16th... at that time we will be shipping more than we usually do per day so we can catch back up as quickly as possible... the office is a total mess... a large nuc yard was hit as well, and while we were able to straighten up the majority of the nucs, they will definitely be set back from the damages... this whole week is calling for thunderstorms, so we won't be able to make a clear assessment of how bad and what it will take to get them back on track until next week... I am thankful for all the help that everyone is offering us, and a few guys from other operations have already arrived as well as our staff from other states, so we have a strong work force working on what they can each time the weather gives us a chance... we are still trying to answer emails but the ladies are working from laptops and cell phones at the moment, and the internet connection is very slow compared to the hard wired office, so hang in there while they work through that... thank you everyone for understanding..."


----------



## rweakley

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Get a clue BGhoney, do you want them answering every email and voicemail or cleaning up from the storm that put trees through their office and destroyed most of their computer equiptment, destroyed or weakened a lot of nucs, and played havoc with everything else. You are taking about a farming type endeavor and this is one heck of weather related excuse for your order to be late. I am also waiting on an order, but instead of thinking the worst (those guys are screwing me) I posted a message on his website forum asking if something had happened down there. Low and behold it had happened. So give them a break they are doing the best they can after having storms demolish them 2 years in a row. I can only hope if you are ever selling something to people they will have a little more patience with you.

Rod


----------



## cg3

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I, for one, am grateful that they take small orders like mine, at all. I was very satisfied with my last order.


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



cg3 said:


> I, for one, am grateful that they take small orders like mine, at all. I was very satisfied with my last order.


Amen. I would bet it would improve their bottom line to not deal with all of us small time hobbyist. And from the complaining that I hear here I am sure it would improve their quality of life not to deal with us. 

I am eagerly awaiting my Moonbeams that I ordered last summer, and are set to arrive mid May.


----------



## BGhoney

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I was just on there webpage to get there phone number, not a word about a storm, so sorry. I have no problem with delayed orders, I've never got a response from the order to begin with. I can send out 2 emails a minute. I did state that the orders not even late yet, just wondering if it was coming. Thanks for the info, no matter how barbed.


----------



## Joseph Clemens

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Late last Summer (2011) I received a few of the Russell Apiaries SunKist Cordovan queens. When I had the queens in their cages, at my nuc yard, ready to install in their nucs, passing bees were attracted to the queens so strongly (in a non-hostile way), that I was unable to see into the cages as I was placing them - the cages were just covered with a cluster of bees. I've had caged queens attract passing bees, but this was way beyond anything I'd seen before.

As soon as I had young larvae from those MQs (mother queens), I began growing daughter queens. They've grown into quite a sizeable group of colonies, and growing.

I'm certainly not a queen breeder, but I'm pretty good at raising queens from young larvae. Maybe someday I'll grow into doing some actual honey bee breeding, but I realize it takes lots of know-how, experience, and resources to actually breed honey bees.

I sure hope Russell Apiaries starts having better Springtime weather. I appreciate their queens, and look forward to growing more of their honey bee varieties.


----------



## Joseph Clemens

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Unintentional Duplicate Post


----------



## gone2seed

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Someone above said,"I can send two emails a minute."They are absolutely right.Get some doofus who can't do anything else and have them email customers who have paid orders on the books.
A short email only has to say,"we had a storm and orders are delayed until the next century.You can have a refund if you do not care to wait."That is called customer service.What BGhoney had is customer NO service.
This is really about money and anyone who has my money had better keep me informed if there are problems.
So,all of you who jumped on the OP might want to reconsider.If it was your money and time window involved you might think differently.


----------



## BeeTax

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



BGhoney said:


> I'm just wondering if they ever got my order in the first place.


I know when I ordered mine, that payment was required at the time the order was placed, so you should have received some sort of confirmation of paypal or credit card that they received your order. If not, you may be justly concerned that your order was not received.


----------



## theriverhawk

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I emailed them early last week. Got a response the next morning. 

I'm looking to just purchase a few Sunkist and them make a few queens off of them. 

They were very informative and helpful.

Sorry you had a different experience.


----------



## Joseph Clemens

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Sometimes it's only a matter of spam settings in your email client, or checking the spam folder to see if the response was sent there.


----------



## cg3

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



Joseph Clemens said:


> Sometimes it's only a matter of spam settings in your email client.


 Their response to me on 4/5, shortly after their mishap, did indeed land in my Spam box.


----------



## valleyman

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



gone2seed said:


> "That is called customer service.What BGhoney had is customer NO service.
> This is really about money and anyone who has my money had better keep me informed if there are problems.
> So,all of you who jumped on the OP might want to reconsider.If it was your money and time window involved you might think differently.


They have $227.50 of my money for queens. Not a large amount, but too much to lose. I'm not worried because I understand that they are working with laptops and cell phones on a limited basis, and that there is a large area that is without any utilities. I don't know what progress is being made, but from dealing with them in the past I'm sure they will try to take care of everyone as soon as they can. I to am in need of my queens to give to a nuc builder to build my nucs with. I have emailed them twice lately with no answer, and I usually get one. So is there anyone that would like to trade places with them? I don't think so. Patience please!


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## rwurster

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Sounds like sending out an email to all one's contacts saying we had a disaster is just too difficult to handle for them. Letting your customers sit around wondering what's gong on, now that's sound business practice. Bet their money made it into the bank no problems though LOL


----------



## TwinkieBee

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Yeah right. I wish it were that simple. There are something like 21,000 customers and there is no email contacts list. We asked Doc about that option already and he reminded us of the craziness of last year when we did something like that on just a small scale. People who had queen orders for June were freaking out and wanting daily status updates from that point on just because we sent a mass email alerting people of a delay due to a storm in March. 

The info was posted on our website as well as here. No one was left in the dark except for us and the 7,000 people in the area with no power. It sure is sad how people have become. You wanna know what Doc said while we were all standing in the drive in the pouring rain staring in awe at the destruction? He looked at Hughes and told him to get the guys in and go door to door checking on people and putting tarps on their roofs, while Sam, Cody, and Matt were clearing driveways. He bought every single boat battery and inverter that walmart had and had Steve and Blaine handing them out to houses with children and elderly so they could run lamps for light at least. AND his wife Nicole and Victoria boxed up all of the dry and canned foods in his home so that Hughes and Phil could hand it all out to families and they cooked everything that was in his fridges and freezers and took plates to the kids and old folks every day for lunch and dinner. My husband got into the spirit and drove his tractor around for a whole week clearing trees for folks.

I love working for people with that care and stand up for others. You may think that getting an email would have saved you the time of looking at the updates on the website, and that may be very important to you. But I am with Valleyman, its easy to talk about how others shoulda, woulda, coulda, when its not your britches that are on fire. 

We are working from laptops and cell phones until everything is wired back up and functioning. All of our guys came in from other states and a few other companies even sent their crews to get the office gutted and repaired. They all just left out today. We have a roof, well, all except for one exterior area. We have new floors, walls, and ceilings. Now we are just putting the desks and computers together and getting the tech guys to wire everything back up and get the systems set up on the new computers.

Doc is working on the nucs. The queens are fine and we should be shipping way more than we usually do per shipdate starting on 4-16.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



TwinkieBee said:


> The info was posted on our website as well as here. No one was left in the dark except for us and the 7,000 people in the area with no power. It sure is sad how people have become. You wanna know what Doc said while we were all standing in the drive in the pouring rain staring in awe at the destruction? He looked at Hughes and told him to get the guys in and go door to door checking on people and putting tarps on their roofs, while Sam, Cody, and Matt were clearing driveways. He bought every single boat battery and inverter that walmart had and had Steve and Blaine handing them out to houses with children and elderly so they could run lamps for light at least. AND his wife Nicole and Victoria boxed up all of the dry and canned foods in his home so that Hughes and Phil could hand it all out to families and they cooked everything that was in his fridges and freezers and took plates to the kids and old folks every day for lunch and dinner. My husband got into the spirit and drove his tractor around for a whole week clearing trees for folks.


Wow. Utterly amazing and inspiring.


----------



## valleyman

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I recieved an email from them overnite giving me my ship date and tenative arrival date. I hope that everyone does, but you need to read TwinkieBees post to understand the magnitude of what they are enduring. This is 2 years in a row for major storm damage. You don't ever get used to this type of situation.
Let me further say that I do not know any of the people involved personally, but I have had considerable contact with all of them via email. I have NEVER been misled or lied to in any way by any of them. I have not always gotten things exactly when I wanted them, but I'm not their only customer, and don't expect any special treatment. Just be patient and they will deliver a high quality product.


----------



## Daniel Y

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Sorry to hear your community was hit so hard. I've been there and done that. It also sounds like you actually did a very good job of reaching customers. I say that because I don't see a lot of complaining going on. one customer is not a lot and you can't reach them all. It seems most who replied here are aware of the situation.
This thread does serve as a great example of the damage one dissatisfied customer can cause though.
my thoughts and well wishes to your community. Good luck on your goal of the 16th.

If you are not already doing it I would make it clear on your web site that customers need to check the site for updates. I woudl do it that way so that I have made it clear that is my method of communicating with my customers. I don't think I would even offer e-mail contact on a personal order level. I've offered things on a volunteer non profit basis and know how even small order, processing and shipping blah blah blah gets.


----------



## rweakley

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



TwinkieBee said:


> You wanna know what Doc said while we were all standing in the drive in the pouring rain staring in awe at the destruction? He looked at Hughes and told him to get the guys in and go door to door checking on people and putting tarps on their roofs, while Sam, Cody, and Matt were clearing driveways. He bought every single boat battery and inverter that walmart had and had Steve and Blaine handing them out to houses with children and elderly so they could run lamps for light at least. AND his wife Nicole and Victoria boxed up all of the dry and canned foods in his home so that Hughes and Phil could hand it all out to families and they cooked everything that was in his fridges and freezers and took plates to the kids and old folks every day for lunch and dinner. My husband got into the spirit and drove his tractor around for a whole week clearing trees for folks.


It's always good when your gut feeling about someone who you have never met turns out to be 110% correct. God Bless All of you at Russell Apiaries.

Rod


----------



## toekneepea

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



cg3 said:


> I, for one, am grateful that they take small orders like mine, at all...


I don't have any outstanding orders from Russel's, but I knew that they got hit.

I had to cancel this year's order because of an anyphylactic reaction/treatment regimen and I may be moving out of state - hence no expansion. Doc Russel contacted me personally and I really appreciated his concern.

My refrigerator and dishwasher kicked the bucket this week and it's been miserable, so I can only begin to imagine what they're dealing with down there. To be able to continue on, and get orders out with a slight delay is pretty impressive in my book.

My two cents.

Tony P.


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## Trainee73

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I had not heard of them before. All this talk got me curious, so I went and took a look at their website. They've earned a new customer with me.


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## BGhoney

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Well Im glad the responses turned positive, I've heard they have wonderfull bees, and cant wait to try them, I didn't check my spame 8 weeks ago, maybe they responded. there site says paypal would send an auto response, I have no problem waiting a few weeks for the bees. I'll check my spam when I get home and see if anything was sent earlier this week. Good luck to them.


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## millerwb

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

When I ordered, I received a receipt from PayPal. That is good enough for me. Now I wait (and have been) until my queens arrive. I could use them now, but will still need them when they arrive sometime later this year.

Glad that they are getting things back together.


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## amethysta

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Speaking of Russel Apiaries, has anyone ever successfully arranged a piggy-back nuc delivery? I just found out about the delivery system a month ago and posted on their forum but haven't had any responses. I am thinking that the chance of someone out there willing to bring a nuc closer to me may be slim to none, even if gas money is offered. Any words of advice?


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## Barry

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Twinkie -

How is it that both you and Robert post in the middle of the night? Seems odd that an employee would be posting about their boss at 2:30 am.


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## TwinkieBee

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Seriously?! Are you insinuating something by that or just stirring the pot?

I'm up by 3 or 4 every morning except for when I work the late shift twice a week. I have boys to drag out of bed and get to school. A family to take care of. A house to keep up. A business to run. And then I have my part time job, that aint so part time right now. I read forums when I have a chance. Is there a certain time that you feel would be more proper for me to be here? I'm not "posting about my boss" I'm giving updates to people who have questions that I can answer. Russell says that someone here plays the devil's advocate so he will not post here. Could be why this is all in the bee breeding area instead of the consumer reports. He uses his phone to post on forums and does most of it while traveling to yards before daylight. 

amethysta, if it looks like you are not going to be able to find a piggy-back, I can get you a refund or send a queen to someone closer to you and get them to over stock a nuc for you. There should be a few headed to NY, NH, and ME. But they may not be speaking up because of a lack of space or you may be too far off of their route.


----------



## preciousbeesfarm

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Ya know Twinkie, when stuff like weather happens, there are some here that would volunteer to be there to help with the repairs, all for the chanch of learning or watching methods of breeding Queens. Most of what I see here is a fierce loyalty among those of us that use Russell Queens, and I for one would be honored to get an oppertunity to be of service.


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## Broke-T

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Twinkiebee, I seem to be confused. You are saying that storms in MS have destroyed mating nucs and prevented Robert from shipping queens on time.

However in a thread in the consumer report colum you said Robert had no production yards in MS.

"He doesn't produce queens in Mississippi. His home is here so there is an office here and a research yard here. Mississippi is where his dad's operation was. Robert has always had bees all over. Robert's brother killed almost all of his dad's hives by stealing nucs out of them during beetle season. His dad asked Robert to step in and save what was left when he found out what the brother was doing. Then Robert's dad passed away and Robert still keeps up the last few hives that his dad had for sentimental purposes and uses them to study different issues so that other people can use the research to keep their bees alive."

Which is it?

Johnny


----------



## TwinkieBee

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

The nucs were not mating nucs. They were five frame nucs. The yard didn't prevent anything from shipping, the lack of an office did. We process orders and generate labels for packages from that location, no matter where the queens are shipping from. Aside from that, all of our crews were brought in to clear debris and rebuild. Kinda hard to cage queens in one state when your working in another. Confussion gone?

Preciousbeesfarms, Thank you. We actually did have a few guys come in from other operations and they were a lot of help.


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## Broke-T

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Twinkiebee, I will be in Flowood next Tuesday. Would it be ok to drop by the office in Brandon for a visit?

Johnny


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## TwinkieBee

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

broke-t, I asked Russell and this is what he responded with. "Although we would normally welcome any beekeepers to visit, having an obvious ill-wisher take time away from our work and create tension in an already stressfull situation doesn't sound very appealing... He can hope for the worst from his own operation... Just stop responding to negativity on that thread Jackie... There are people that view others as competition and dealing with them only makes your job harder... We dont have to do business with those people and you dont have to let them stress you... Just ignore them on the forums and add them to your prayer list... We all have enough on our plates and the people that depend on us deserve our full attention..."


----------



## Stephen

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



TwinkieBee said:


> "Although we would normally welcome any beekeepers to visit, having an obvious ill-wisher take time away from our work and create tension in an already stressfull situation doesn't sound very appealing... He can hope for the worst from his own operation... Just stop responding to negativity on that thread Jackie... There are people that view others as competition and dealing with them only makes your job harder... We dont have to do business with those people and you dont have to let them stress you... Just ignore them on the forums and add them to your prayer list... We all have enough on our plates and the people that depend on us deserve our full attention..."


This will probably get deleted/edited/moderated but...
:applause: :thumbsup: :applause: :thumbsup: :applause: to that quote!

Good queens from good people. That should mean a lot more than it seems to on here.


----------



## Beezly

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Doc has been beyond helpful to many on this forum over the years, that has not been lost on some of us and i for one am very thankful for his advice and support. 
Seems that some are afraid of the competition that indeed makes America great and feel it necessary to take jabs at a man (or company) when they are faced with adversity. 
Gee, my world has been turned inside out two years in a row, by mother nature, things are in a shambles and need immediate attention to salvage what is my livelyhood, and i miss some emails, or shipments due to circumstances out of my control. 
I think this would be the BEST time for a VISIT!!! Really?
I don't know him, never bought a bee from him (but will), have never personally talked with him, have no clue what he looks like. But like i would with anyone who has gone thru things like this, have some Grace.


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I am sorry to hear about Russells misfortunes. I personally know nothing about the Russell operation nor have I had any business dealings with him, if memory serves me correctly Broke T has visited there. Out of curiosity has anyone else here seen or been able to make it over there to help them pick up the pieces?


----------



## Broke-T

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I don't consider Robert a competitor. I have more orders for queens than I can produce. I knew Roberts dad and visited with him several times. It just bothers me when I see things that don't add up. 

Johnny


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Twinkiebee

I would love to see how the Russell operations work, as I know seeing him in person and seeing how his operations work would go miles for my education, but I know he (and everyone from the company) is extremely busy, and does not have time to cater to a "site visit" as such.

But, if Doc ever offered a course, or a shadow session, or a class of some kind, I would be very interested in attending or participating. I know the odds are slim (and he doesn't have the time to do one), but I'd be willing to cash in vacation time to attend.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



TwinkieBee said:


> Seriously?! Are you insinuating something by that or just stirring the pot?


Seriously! I just notice that both you and Robert have on many occasions posted messages in the middle of the night. That doesn't seem odd to you? Especially since you've now decided to be the go between person for Robert and the forums. I raised 5 kids myself, so I know what it's all about.


----------



## PDG honey

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



jim lyon said:


> I am sorry to hear about Russells misfortunes. I personally know nothing about the Russell operation nor have I had any business dealings with him, if memory serves me correctly Broke T has visited there. Out of curiosity has anyone else here seen or been able to make it over there to help them pick up the pieces?


My helpers and I were there during the clean up. I worked with Robert for years while he helped me get big enough to go commercial in honey. I worked in every yard and met some awesome bee keepers. Never met any Johnny from Philadelphia. He says that Mr Russells sunkist would eat you out of house and home and I know that didn't come from visiting Mr Russell or using the sunkist.


----------



## max2

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

"It's always good when your gut feeling about someone who you have never met turns out to be 110% correct. God Bless All of you at Russell Apiaries."

I second that!!
We had the second year running with floods. The Pecan's I harvested this year I can eat myself. Not much I can do about disapointed customers. Just hope for better next year.
I wish RR and his family and crew all the best

max


----------



## TwinkieBee

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Barry, busy people being on the internet at night instead of when they are busy during the day? No, does't seem odd at all. You never get on here at night? 

Phil, uh huh, couldn't help it either could you? See I'm not the only one that it's getting to.

Broke T, I have never met you either. Maybe you just showed up at JN's home or something? 

Specialkayme, I bet Russell would let you shadow him for a few days so long as he is going to be in one place for a while. 

max2, we are going to Australia this fall! I can't wait!


----------



## Ted Kretschmann

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

As with any business, A man's word is his bond. That is a lesson for all of us to live by. Ted Kretschmann, Alabama Bee Company


----------



## Riverratbees

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Personally for all the HYPE the sunkist strain wasn't that special. I have a few sunkist queens from last year they were slow to start and the bees seem retarted as far as I am concerned. My other srains are and were more productive and yes their customer svc sucks nothing special there either.


----------



## Virginia Bee

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I preordered and prepaid for 6 nucs back at the end of August for this spring. I have been worried.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



TwinkieBee said:


> Specialkayme, I bet Russell would let you shadow him for a few days so long as he is going to be in one place for a while.


I would LOVE to talk to him more about it.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



Virginia Bee said:


> I have been worried.


Why?

Didn't you buy April/May nucs? Did he ever give you a date that you were supposed to pick them up on? It's only April 14th . . .


----------



## JSFlowerNectar

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

TwinkieBee,

I appreciate the time you spend in giving updates on beesource.com; could you provide an update for when the Russell nucs will be ready in Alabama? 

If I didn't post this correctly, can someone help me be directed to TwinkieBee- 

Thank you, 

Jon and Shelley Elkins


----------



## beehonest

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Never had any dealings with them, but as for me communication and customer service are what gets my business. But from reading this thread, I think Barry is on to something. Russel does not get on here any more but all of a sudden an employee desides to go out of his way to defend his boss.It just so happens the employee posts at the same time that the boss usualy posts. Sounds a little fishy, I think the employer and employee are the same person. I have had a couple of good bosses, but never one I thought that highly ofopcorn:.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



beehonest said:


> I think the employer and employee are the same person.


Seriously? You really think that?

If Russell really wanted to discuss the issues on this thread, why would he not do it under his own account? Posting as an "employee" leads no added credibility than it would if he posted directly. 

Why is it so suspicious that two people that work together post at similar times? Maybe they work on similar schedules. They do, after all, work at the same place.

And if twink really was Robert, why would he quote himself as saying "stop wasting your time posting on that site."



beehonest said:


> I have had a couple of good bosses, but never one I thought that highly ofopcorn:.


Maybe, but I think that would mean that much more for this boss.


----------



## johns bees

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I just don't get it I have ordered queens for Dr. Russell no problem and when my hive absconed I let the Dr. know and he sent me a replacement he paid for the shipping and all. Dr Russell is good people I bet you can't count how many people he has help on this site alone. Two years in a row bad weather during queen production time this year one of his nuc yards got hammered give the guy a brake I am sure when things get back in order the Dr will make things right the best he can


----------



## Barry

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



JSFlowerNectar said:


> could you provide an update for when the Russell nucs will be ready in Alabama?


This is not the place for vendor updates. That is to be done in private communication or in the for sale forum if it is a follow up to an ad. Thank you.


----------



## rweakley

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Boy Barry you sure killed this thread  J/K I emailed them today to make sure they still had record that they were going to send me a replacement queen for one that didn't take, they got right back to me and are going to ship her along with some others I just ordered today.Rod


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Robert was a generous contributor to Beesource and his presence is missed. I learned much just reading his contributions. It seemed clear to me that his motives were to educate and help his fellow beekeepers. I'm really disappointed to see such accusations in open forum.


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



AstroBee said:


> I'm really disappointed to see such accusations in open forum.


In addition I am curious as to why this thread has been kept in the Queen & Bee Breeding instead of the Consumer Reports forum?


----------



## cg3

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



RiodeLobo said:


> I am curious as to why this thread has been kept in the Queen & Bee Breeding


Totally agree


----------



## BGhoney

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Update. I got a email from Russel Apiaries today, 4/17, they started shipping 4/16 they are behind and not sure when my order will get out. Thats all I needed I dont have to order other queens, I can work around a few days or weeks of delay.


----------



## brushmouth

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



RiodeLobo said:


> In addition I am curious as to why this thread has been kept in the Queen & Bee Breeding instead of the Consumer Reports forum?


Because Dr.Russell has forgot more about bee breeding than most folks know. (FACT)
He is a stand-up guy, based on my dealings with him.
The family history is dedicated to the industry.
Why so quick to judge negatively ?

BM


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



brushmouth said:


> Because Dr.Russell has forgot more about bee breeding than most folks know. (FACT)


I have learned much from his posts and am sorry he does not feel comfortable to here to share anymore.


brushmouth said:


> He is a stand-up guy, based on my dealings with him.


Same experience here


brushmouth said:


> Why so quick to judge negatively ?


Never have, I have been honest and objective in my assessment. I have had good experiences with Russell Apiaries and would recommend their queens.. I would however caution, do not put them an a hard deadline (this is agriculture after all). I will take the queens when I can get them and plan on having wiggle room in the schedule on re-queening or starting nucs. And so far they have done a good job at being within 2 weeks of my preferred shipping dates (even with the horrendous weather last year) .


----------



## SmokeEater2

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I picked up my SunKist Cordovan at the PO this morning. Shipped on the the 16th and in fine shape when she got here, This is the first Cordovan color I've seen and they are a beautiful bee.


----------



## valleyman

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I received my *beautiful Queens *from Russell Apiaries this morning in the mail. Just as they had promised. 

I fail to understand where anyone does not understand that this is not a competition for sales. As I understand every one usually sells all the queens that they produce.

I fail to understand why anyone would be jealous of someone (Dr. Russell) who while obviously not perfect but tries to deliver on time a high quality product.

I fail to understand why all can't see that his only intent here on Beesource was/is to help beekeepers all around the world. I see that his love of bees probably comes before profit. 

Good luck to all and we all need to have a little more patience and understanding!!!


----------



## millerwb

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Picked up my 4 queens yesterday at the PO. They were ordered a few weeks ago with a "ship date request" of "see doc" and Robert had emailed me to do. They looked great. Hived them today. They should be out in a couple of days!!!!


----------



## Wee3Bees Apiary

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

There seems to be at least one poster in this thread that implies that the destruction described by Russell employee(s) to at least one of their buildings and a large 5 frame nuc yard is made up. Well, I saw a large pine tree laying through the middle of his building a few weeks ago ... it certainly seemed real to me. It certainly doesnt help speed things up in the busy spring season.

This is agriculture. Weather slows things down or (in this case) causes damage which can be fixed but it takes a little time. Would you rather they fix the damage or email every time someone asks a question of no consequence (in this twitter, facebook generation (most thoughts and comments really are a waste of most peoples time and doesn't really require a response).

If a business owner or employee takes to time to respond every time a customer writes an email, you would be able to read a book the length of this thread on 20% of your customers. I have some sunkist queens and they are best queens in my apiaries (one other strain I have is just as good, but they are certainly worth having).

Now, the busiest (meaning best) queen breeders arent going to call or email you back in the Springtime... Get it? I'm a commercial beekeeper and you couldnt pay me enough to mass produce quality queens due to the massive amount of time it takes 6 months out the year just to produce the product. There are only so many hours in the day. There is not time to respond to thousands of people every day. Be patient if you ordered. If you havent ordered and aren't the patient type, you probably shouldnt order at all. My $0.02...

Regarding their damage, if they have everything fixed and got back on track with orders, then I am impressed. Remember, I saw the damage AND I dont work for them (and, no, I'm not a Russell).

Keith


----------



## Arkansas Beekeeper

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

yeah but their service was subject before the storm. I have never had a phone message returned or an email. The last nuc update was 4/10, 18 days ago. If their method of communicating is their web site, how much effort does it take to update it once a week or so. If they don't want to sell to non-comercial beeks, stop. BTW they added a new product, May-June nucs for sale but no communication about Aptil-May nucs. I have a $1200 order pending. Update us please.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

The May-June nuc item was put on the site before the storms.


----------



## Skinner Apiaries

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

In their defense, if they have several hundred customers all screaming about itty bitty 2 queen/nuc orders, they're probably way too busy to answer all those in a timely fashion, and paying a girl to do it costs money. Probably just a tight ship. I pay, I get what I order. Or thats what my experience was with them in 2011


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*



Arkansas Beekeeper said:


> If they don't want to sell to non-comercial beeks, stop.


No please. This hobby beekeeper wants to keep ordering from them.


Skinner Apiaries said:


> I pay, I get what I order. Or thats what my experience was with them in 2011


Ditto, and am happy with the whole experience.


----------



## millerwb

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Update: 3 of 4 doing great. One split ended up all getting Nosema or something and dying. Emailed Russell. Will see if another is shipped. Either way, I am still happy with the queens. Will likely order more in the future.


----------



## TwT

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

well I called them and of course they are to busy to answer, I understand that, so I emailed them, the next day the email was answered, they called me the day after that, queens were ordered and will be mailed today, 5 thumbs up for these people, very nice to deal with and talk to, I will recommend these folks to anyone....... yes, My order started like this, emailed on Sunday, queens shipped Thursday......


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## brac

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

When he decides it's just not worth the BS to sell queens to hobby beekeepers, you guys are really gonna lose a great resource. I for 1 could not be happier in my dealings with Doctor Russell. He is a class act!


----------



## Marc

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Ordered two queens last December, for sometime in May. Got an email last week telling me they would be shipped on Monday. I picked them up this morning, both fine and alive. Couldn't be happier with service and professionalism of Russell Apiaries. And, I will definitely order again if his queens prove true in my climate to what everybody says about them. Very happy customer here.


----------



## cg3

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Ordered 2 Buckfast queens right before their storm mishap asking for late April delivery. They shipped yesterday. Yay!


----------



## Hawkster

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

just got my order, they upgraded me to SKC from italians.. Bees are very active cant wait to see how they do. I would buy again in an instant.


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## beenut46

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

I got my five skc on time ,no problems. I Have grafted more than 350 queeen s from a sk from last fall ,seems like going to be a good queen for south texas to use open mate from.The bees seems to be very gentle and produce a lot of brood


----------



## TwT

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Just got the phone call, queens are at the post office ready to be picked up :applause: , great service!!!!!!!


----------



## Arkansas Beekeeper

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Still no communication or info from Russell about April-May nucs. At best, they will arrive just in time for the dearth or they have lost order. Nothing like feeding bees all summer and winter.:applause:


----------



## Arkansas Beekeeper

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Just posted this on Russell Forum:This is for RR or anyone at the apiary. It is just about time to initiate working a refund through my credit card company to reverse the charges for the 10 nucs I ordered in January. I understand the storm and troubles but it is the second week of May and have heard nothing about order. A positive word concerning nucs orders would save me the trouble of reversing the charge with the cc company. I am anxiously looking forward getting bees or refund.


----------



## sergie

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

This was posted in the same thread you posted that in on May 2.

"we feel that the majority of the nucs there have swarmed and will need to have the brood/food/queens adjusted before we release them... We will have crews there doing that very soon, so the nucs will be ready before May is over for sure..."


----------



## Greg Lowe

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Whodathunkit? An update telling when something will happen followed by a question asking the just answered question. 

I understand being anxious but an April/May Nuc coming in May is on time.


----------



## Arkansas Beekeeper

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

The thread is about customer service. Basically, it is nonexistent. I find it troubling that no one from the company responds except through piggybacking emails through forum members. Who conducts business in this manner? The quote above is speaking about Alabama nucs. I purchased thru MS. Other MS orders have been filled. They have mentioned they have lost info thru a computer glitch. How do I know if my info was lost? I don't know who the post are from. Does serge or Greg work for RR? Who knows. I will never place another order through Russell.


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## Barry

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

***************** Notice ***************

To all posting on the subject of Russell, refrain from starting new threads. There are already plenty of threads going on this topic, we don't need anymore! Also, DO NOT cross-post the same message to all the different threads like I just did!!

***************** End Notice ***************


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## Specialkayme

*Re: Russel Apiaries need some customer service*

Thanks for the notice Barry. It is much appreciated.


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## theriverhawk

*Russell Apiaries...I'm done with them...*

So here's been my experience that has lead me to say, "I'm done with Russell Apiaries!!"

1. In April, I emailed them regarding queens. Was told exactly what I needed to do to have them by a certain date.
2. Ordered April 24th for a May 7 shipping.
3. 7th came and went.
4. Emailed on the 11th just to see if they did in fact get shipped. No response.
5. Emailed on the 21st because I knew I would be traveling June 3-10. Was fearful that they might actually ship that week. 
6. On the 22nd, I got a response that they would mark for to NOT be shipped that week in June and "how bout next week?"
7. Confirmed that next week would work as long as they were shipped on their customary Monday or Tuesday.
8. On the 29th, I received an email confirmation via PayPal that my package had been shipped Priority Mail 2-3 day. Note: I'm in Alabama. They are in Mississippi. Any Priority that I have received in the past coming from any connecting state has shipped in 2 days, sometimes even one. 
9. Each day, there has been no update online as to where my package is when using the tracking number.
10. Stopped by the USPS today to inquire. Was told, that yes, they package my have been confirmed online to have been shipped but, GET THIS, it actually HAS NOT been given to the USPS yet!!!!! 

I may be wrong, and there is a side of me that wants to be...but I really feel lied to. I can take delays. They happen. Since I sell a few nucs each spring, I can understand delays. But in this case, it would appear that I have been, knowingly, not told the truth.

I made a couple of splits the other day specifically for these queens. I leave for 8 days tomorrow. At this point, I am expecting to return to a couple of SHB slimed nucs that didn't have to be that way if they had just done what they said they would/were doing. 

If it's the case, and it does look to be, then I am DONE with Russell Apiaries...


----------



## FindlayBee

*Re: Russell Apiaries...I'm done with them...*

The USPS has a horrible online tracking system. I have gotten things in the mail several days before they even mark in online has having been accepted at a USPS location.


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## ken rice

*Re: Russell Apiaries...I'm done with them...*

Dr. Russell I understand, However I must say, I will miss being able to order the sunkist.


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## theriverhawk

*Re: Russell Apiaries...I'm done with them...*

At this point, I just want the queens I ordered. Don't really care about the future. I've made my own queens via the NICOT system for some time. I just wanted to see the Sunkist at work and keep their genetics in some future batches of queens. 
I really am sad to see someone with a reputable product unable to run a business well.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Russell Apiaries...I'm done with them...*



FindlayBee said:


> The USPS has a horrible online tracking system. I have gotten things in the mail several days before they even mark in online has having been accepted at a USPS location.


I got queens last year and USPS was still showing them unshipped. I shipped some queens this year and same situation. I called the recipient and he had the queens, USPS still was showing them here.


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## preciousbeesfarm

*Re: Russell Apiaries...I'm done with them...*

Same situation here, USPS showed the Queen order sitting in Miss, NOT recieved, and then on Sat. I get a call WHILE I am going to Class, saying "your Queens are here", the tracking still showed that they had not been recieved, I was, let's say, More that miffed!inch: Since I was giving the class, I had to carry the girls with me all day until I could prep some colonies recieve them:waiting:. The order was 5 weeks late:waiting:, and on top of the delay the USPS did not scan the package:scratch:.


----------



## giant pumpkin peep

*Re: Russell Apiaries...I'm done with them...*

when I get something from russells it always shows it sitting ina sort facility in jackson.


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## Heavenly bees

any body know when they will ship queens i ordered queens beginning of april :waiting:


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## Vance G

They ship lots and lots every day. Just not to you or me yet. It is the nature of the business I fear. Their product must be in high demand.


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## seal62

Anybody got the number to the bat cave where the light goes on ? Anyone have a update on refunds ? How about passing on one of the select numbers wheres someone picks up a phone ? Shoot me a pm ,,, Id sure be happy to report I got my 400$ back for the undelieverd moonbeams and replacements for the lame sunkist nucs . If ya]all havent caught on yet , spend away .


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## BeeBrothersApiary

Buyer Beware:

After 45 days you WILL NOT see a dime from Paypal. If you are buying one year in advance, kiss your money goodbye after 45 days.


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## NDnewbeek

I have a question - 

We know, from the Miss. Dept of Ag. page, that Russell apiaries is not licensed to sell bees or queens in Mississippi.

I have been told (by way of responding to the obvious question of: how can he sell queens from Mississippi if he isn't licensed - through this thread and others on this forum) that Mississippi is simply where the orders are taken, that the queens come from breeding and queen rearing yards from all over the country (this was also the response to the question: how can he have northern acclimated queens if his breeding operation is in Mississippi?).

So, how is it that when he ships - tracking information indicates that the queens are coming from Mississippi (as indicated by at least two posts on this page)? When you order a queen from Russell Apiaries, do they first route it from its origination point through Mississippi and then to the purchaser?

Mike


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## camero7

All queens I have received from Russell have come from MS. I've wondered about that myself. He actually is selling queens from MS, even if they are from other yards in other states IMO.


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## beehugheshoney

There is no "license to sell bees" in Mississippi. The state has a certificate program stating that your apiaries have been inspected and found clean. That is what they are "certifying". Russell was inspected by the director of the program and he was clean. Why they don't have him on the list, I don't know. The queens are shipped from mating yards to whichever postal hub they use for that region. Russell staff work directly in the postal hubs sorting and packaging queen shipments. I know this because my son is one of them.


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## Barry

Let me refresh you on this:

RULES OF THE MISSISSIPPI DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND COMMERCE
SUBPART 3 – BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY
CHAPTER 06 – Bee Disease Regulations

Certification of Package Bees and Queen Bees.
104 – All apiaries belonging to packaged bee and queen producers and nuc producers must be inspected annually for brood disease and parasitic mites. Certificates of inspection declaring apparent freedom from contagious bee diseases and parasites shall be attached securely to each lot of packages or queens being shipped. All lots of packaged bees, queens, or nucs being shipped into Mississippi must be accompanied by such a certificate from the state of origin.

Quarantines:
105.09 – It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly purchase, receive or transport bees from quarantined areas or quarantined beekeeping operations whether in-state or out-of-state.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...od-in-apiary-selling-bees&p=717761#post717761

And in Russell's own words: "the reason that we asked for an inspection in MS was to comply with MS state code, not because we produce our products there."


----------



## beehugheshoney

He had the director of the bureau inspect his hives in March. The quarantine was lifted and he was approved. I read the approval letter. The director even said that he didn't see any evidence of any diseases at all. He also noted that there were a lot more hives there than the quarantine order stated. He's approved, why he isn't on the list, I don't know. But he is approved.


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## baldwinbees

OK...so where were the bees shipped from while he was under quarentine in miss?also,where is this research foundation?there's a bunch of us who could benefit from a Q&A session.how come he doesn't open it 1 day a week,for a fee of course,maybe give a 1 day crash beekeeping class


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## Riverratbees

Everyone needs to go to his site start a tread and over whelm the thread with these complaints. Quit going on and on about his pathetic excuse for customer svc. I washed my hands of them last yr. so I don't have that rite but I got his attn last yr when 50 people jumped on the bandwagon.


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## Riverratbees

I opened a thread for you folks to hopefully get his attn and on his site I am a bad person for openong this thread under customer svc very bottom Forum. HUH!!!!


----------



## theriverhawk

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

You won't get it. 

I had a similar experience. I will tell you, though, if you email and don't rip into them in the email, they will respond and fix the problems you have encountered. 

Honey attracts more bees...go in gun slinging and you'll get no response.


----------



## gmcharlie

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Given the number of comments on this site alone, what did you expect???


----------



## beehugheshoney

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

This is from Russells policy page on their website. 

"Marking & Clipping - We will mark queens at no charge upon your request. However, this service is not guaranteed because we cage very many queens each day and when the weather is too hot or to wet, the marking paint can cause damage to the queens.* We do not charge for the service at all and feel that it is far more important to get you healthy queens.*We do NOT clip any production queens. Breeders can be marked with numbered disks and clipped upon request. With breeders these services are also free, but are guaranteed as part of the product."

I mark some queens in hives that I will make nucs from so I can spot them faster. How long did you wait from the time you put her in the nuc or hive to the time that you tried to mark her? If she flew away, she must have not been in the hive long or been real scared. None of mine ever try to fly after the two weeks that you are suppose to leave them to get accepted.


----------



## RAK

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Can't blame Russell and definitely its your fault for the losses. If you don't know how to mark queen, don't mark them...


----------



## MDenver

Sorry for the cross post. Just put this on the bee forum post. 

No need to get into the details (drama) of my order to Russell Apiaries because there is always room for debate but PayPal contacted him and he agreed to a refund. Got a notice from PayPal this evening telling me the refund was issued and then another about an hour later telling me it failed because it did not clear their account. Just a heads up, looks like they have bigger problems.


----------



## Virginia Bee

*Russell Apiaries Amended Posting*

I know a lot of us has had our moments with Russell Apiaries, and that is understandable. I know I have.

Basically, as I understand it, the firm was a commercial only outfit until this year. This year, they opened things up to the general public and basically got overwhelmed. 

It is one thing to handle 100 orders for 1000 queens, it is another thing to handle 50,000 orders for 2 queens (not the best example, but you get the point).

I had ordered nucs last fall, I went to Mississippi at the end of April to pick them up, I saw directly what all they were going through.

Basically, they got more than they bargined for.


Here is what I know...

First of all, they do have a very good product, and a wide selection. That is both rare and wonderful.

Second, I saw the breeding yards. They seem to be region specific. That is a good thing. In the end, quality genetics is always the best path.

Third, they recognize their situation and are trying to find ways to improve upon it. The core problem is customer service, or as many have experience, a complete lack thereof.


To improve their customer service, they are trying something bold, something new in many ways.

They are contacting a number of people with a track record to stock their products all across the country. They are looking to divide things into states for simplified access and increased customer support. It seems that the goal is to have this operational in 2012.

Basically, they are in the process of setting up a large number of dealers, in almost every state, to give you someone both reputable and close by to work with. That is both sound logic and reasonable. Being a dealer in bees is one thing. Being an afternoon's drive away is an absolute blessing.

I am in discussions with them to be part of the team here in Virginia. If it all works out, I will be willing to help out anyone in VA who has had issues and needs assistance. I will end up with a web site, email adress, and phone number, all of which shall be responded to promptly if you are in Virginia. I will be starting with queens and nucs, and at some point working into packages. In the near future, there will be many more like me.

I kindly as those who have had problems to be patient. I know that is very difficult since I was one of you for a long time. But in the end, we are all better of with maintaining quality genetics in the USA. As beekeepers, that is our core mission and goal. Anything less will result in breeds that fail quickly and result in poor production and pollination.

I am quite sure all will work out for the best in the end.

For now, if you are in Virginia, please feel free to PM me here and I will do what I can to help.


For final comments, please note...I have been where you are. I have been feeling lost, misplaced, and at times ignored. If Russell Apiaries did not care, they would just fade away back to commercial orders only and within a year, this would be old news. Instead, they have chosen a bold path. One that recognizes the current situation for the good and realizes the bad. One that attempts to place dealers much closer to you. People that you can easily drive to for supplies and ask questions of. In our industry, that is a rare and wonderful thing. Let's pull together and work this thing out. After I watched the genetics do their thing, I for one, became a believer.

We can, as a comminuty do better than sticking to just putting up with the limited choices available. I cannot think how many times I looked on the web for bees, only to find a nuc was a day's drive away and all they were was Italians, or on a rare occasion, NWC's. Or that a dealer carried only one or two types of queens. We can do better. We can have survivor diversity. We can have selection. That is what brought you to Russell in the first place.

In the end, things will be better. Customer support will be not only improved, but much closer to you. And for all of us looking for these products, it is a dream come true.

Thank you, and God bless.


----------



## Fishman43

*Re: Russell Apiaries Amended Posting*

Thanks for post this VB! It is nice to see that people with good comments are taking the time to write and not just leaving the last word to the few with negative comments. 

I have queens on order from Russell's for splits later this year, I have no doubt that I will recieve my order and am perfectly willing to wait for the bees to be ready to ship to make sure I get the genetics. It might mean being flexible on my end for when I make the splits but this is agriculture, if you aren't flexible it WILL brake you down.


----------



## Broke-T

*Re: Russell Apiaries Amended Posting*

Virginia, how is this going to work?

Will you be raising queens from breeders supplied by Russell, or will you just take orders and pass it along to somebody else?

Johnny


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Russell Apiaries Amended Posting*

The idea of a consumer report forum is for folks to relate their buying experiences both good and bad for the benefit of all. Such information is a good thing. When reading other consumer threads on here it strikes me that this is hardly a forum where negativity has dominated. I would encourage everyone who has had any experiences with the Russell's to contribute and do so without bias and leave it for the perspective buyer to judge. Just pass relate your experiences, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Russell Apiaries Amended Posting*

Bad news and reviews travel faster and farther.

If you don't like something, tell the supplier. If you do like something, tell your friends.


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Russell Apiaries Amended Posting*

Mark: I would agree to the extent that your first recourse is to make an honest attempt at fixing the problem by contacting and trying to work things out with your vendor, I think that is what separates some of the Russell experiences with other situations and it is what people writing such reviews should clearly point out. Not trying to bash anyone here at all just trying to be realistic.


----------



## Saltybee

*Re: Russell Apiaries Amended Posting*

Thank you for the information. I'm torn between asking for my status and slowing the line down for all, and wondering if I am lost in the shuffle.

No business can survive if there major repeat customers are not served. When I ordered I expected to be on the bottom of the list and knew my order was only a maybe. I would rather be a maybe than a not at all.
Still;

At the DMV they at least give you a number. A web format posting something like below would be helpful to customers and give them a few less calls.

For < under 5 Italians now serving May 30 ship dates.
For < 5 moonbeams now serving April 30 ship dates.

In the end I try to worry more about the bees I have than the ones I don't.


----------



## Jaele

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

WOW... Unacceptable customer service for sure. I just had a similar experience with R.Weaver (Texas):no:.. I was really bummed b/c I'd had a fantastic experience w/their family (B.Weaver - BeeWeaver):thumbsup:....

Thank you for sharing your experience. They need to respond immediately, irregardless of your level of irritation. If you aren't able to deal with unhappy customers, then you shouldn't be in business.


----------



## Jaele

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



RAK said:


> Can't blame Russell and definitely its your fault for the losses. If you don't know how to mark queen, don't mark them...


RAK - WHOA....This person PAID FOR MARKED Queens. This apiary chose not to service their customer. There is no excuse for not communicating with your customers. 
How about you pay me for something and then wish to communicate with me about your purchase and instead of communicating with you, I'll just ignore you, take your money and send you whatever I choose? Right....


----------



## beehonest

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

That seems to be par for the course with them. Lots of complaints on here recently.It seams to be a trend the sites with all the hipe are just that. Everyone says that either one of the Weavers sells hot bees and Russel has a million excuses and no customer service.


----------



## NW_Mark

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



Jaele said:


> RAK - WHOA....This person PAID FOR MARKED Queens. This apiary chose not to service their customer. There is no excuse for not communicating with your customers.
> How about you pay me for something and then wish to communicate with me about your purchase and instead of communicating with you, I'll just ignore you, take your money and send you whatever I choose? Right....


Before you get all in your face about the queens not being marked. Have you read their policies on marking queens? He paid for queens that Might be marked
So no he DID NOT pay for marked queens. Do a little reasearch first next time.


----------



## mudlake

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I complained last year and It was said I was bashing them. Also I should not be upset for taking several days of from work when the queens were suppost to be here. One made it through the winter. I asked for cold weather bees, the one that made it through the winter will not fly until it is over 65 and sunny. All I can say is thanks for nothing except getting upset for nothing.I have swarms that fly early and fly late. Stay with your local bees. Tony

Phone calls and e-mail are waste of time, no answer of any kind


----------



## JRG13

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

It's a shame you never got a call or a response but can't be mad at them for dead queens at this point.... Personally, I would've just accepted them being unmarked, taken a good macro shot of each one and introduced them. In the grand scheme of things having a queen marked or not is not that important. Bottom line though, the customer service you have received thus far ranks low on the satisfactory scale.


----------



## Terry T

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Jumping in here a little late I know but feel I have to weigh in on this topic. I have bought queens from Russell in the past. Last year as a matter of fact. The service was terrible to say the least. I had ordered queens to be shipped on 7-12-11. Paid for them on may 7th. They were not shipped that week at all. I sent an e-mail on sat.the 16th.and received an e-mail on Sunday the 17th stating Mr Russell had been sick and my bees would ship this same week. Didn't get any queens that week either. I finally received my queens on the 27th. Bottom line is when I order a product for shipment on a specific date I expect it to be shipped on that date or an explanation as to why it can't. That is just common courtesy if nothing else. I know I will be bashed on here by the loyal following of Mr Russell as most others have been that dared speak out, but when you get on a public forum and brag your product up as Mr Russell has done on here and then don't deliver said product you must surely expect some backlash! I could go into the quality of the bees but don't believe that to be the topic. And yes I have ordered queens from other suppliers as I like to test other genetics in my apiaries. I have ordered queens from Weavers in Texas,Avoyles in Louisiana,Gardners in Georgia."one of the largest suppliers to Kelly",honey run Apiaries in Ohio,Koehnen in California, Buzzes bees in California and several others over the years. Out of all of those I NEVER had one supplier fail to ship on the date I had requested. I NEVER had any communication issues with any of these other suppliers. And to the best of my memory none of them took my money until a few days before shipping date. One thing that I have seen on here that really disturbs me Is how most of Mr Russell's supporters are so quick to jump all over a negative comment against him but say nothing when He "from another thread" and his employe "Twinkie " from this thread call Mr Russells brother a thief without any evidence!! When You call another out on a public forum and say they are a thief without proof that to me speaks volumns about your own integrity. Bottom line people is do some research about the various strains and genetics of queens being sold today instead of just buying into a bunch of hype be it good or bad. I truely do wish Mr Russell the best and hope that he can straighten out the problems with his business. As for me the old saying goes burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me, there won't be a third time.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



Terry T said:


> when He "from another thread" . . . call Mr Russells brother a thief without any evidence!!


Robert Russell has never called his brother a thief. On this thread, another thread, or another forum.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

He didn't say Russell said it, he said "He "from another thread"". Someone did make the thief comment.


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I'll add my .02 experience because at this point I'm getting quite aggravated.

I ordered some German AMM's and Caucasians on 12/24/2011 as a Christmas present to myself for a May delivery date. They were paid for via Paypal and I received the confirmation stating that the transaction went through. As of today, still havent received the queens, nor have I had any response about them except the generic email that stated 'we are behind, sorry for the delay....' I wouldnt think that the demand for German AMM's would be so great that a company couldnt fill an order that was placed over 7 months ago-a total order of only 4 queens ($173) I also don't understand if there were so many problems with storm damaged yards, that they are still listing all of them as "Available,Pick your ship date, Click Paypal" I'm currently going through the Paypal Resoution process, but not expecting much.


----------



## MichaBees

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

This is just too traumatic for me, too much to handle for my lonely and sick heart in one season. I will have to go back to read about the failing word economies, depletion of natural resources, money thirsty preachers and collapsed democracies. I am waiting too and waited last spring and last year for the "Super Queens" -some issues resolved, some not, mostly waiting and waiting like the rest of you; nothing else to report, its not the end of the world -by the way, are you ready for 12/12? as per Mayan Prophesies?


----------



## Fishman43

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



Barry said:


> He didn't say Russell said it, he said "He "from another thread"". Someone did make the thief comment.


This pretty clearly implies Robert Russell made the comment (He and his employee)

"...Mr Russell's supporters are so quick to jump all over a negative comment against him but say nothing when He "from another thread" and his employe "Twinkie " from this thread call Mr Russells brother a thief..."


----------



## Terry T

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

had come from my brother stealing nucs from his hives by taking the center 5 frames from each chamber and replacing them with culled combs that had been sitting in burn piles for years... afb lives in every bee hive, but a huge stress such as this is what caused the infection

Please do a little research BEFORE you make statements that imply that I am a liar. Robert has indeed called his brother a thief!!! I for one do not believe that type of accusation against anyone belongs in a public forum. That is a very serious accusation to make without evidence.That is what I said. Robert Might be a very upstanding and honest individual that just got caught up in his emotions at the time and said something he probably later regretted saying . Any way this is way off topic as this thread was about Russell apiaries customer service . I gave my two cents worth about my experience with them and here I am today having to defend myself against one of his loyal followers. From reading this thread I can say they have a big problem with their customer service. My experience was far from being their only issue in dealing with their customers. Again I wish Robert Russell and his family the best and hope they are able to work out their CS issues.


----------



## Terry T

Wow I had no idea this was going to bring out all of these responses so quickly on an old thread! I believe you can find Roberts comment on page 3 of foulbrood in apiary selling bees. I would not make such a statement without knowing Robert had actually said this. I just ask for the same fairness from others when commenting about me. Thankyou


----------



## Vance G

I always referred to Dr Russell by that title, out of respect, not Robert, the familiar form once reserved for friends. Unfortunately as the queens I ordered last OCTOBER for May delivery are still not here and Russell Apiary still seems to be offering them for sale, my respect for the man is much diminished. If someone could explain to me the difference between what is happening and a Ponzi scheme, PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME! Possibly Michabee can enlighten the respectful and worshippers about how long it took him to get woodware delivered! I suppose poor weather delayed the boards mating before they could be cut.


----------



## preciousbeesfarm

I was a "beliver" in RA. I 1st ordered last year 3 Sunkist, out of 3 1 did fantastic, 2 were killed, I took responsibility for being an "unexperienced" Bee Keeper, (which I am not),. So I tried again this year, ordered in Feb for late April delivery. 10 Queens, 5 SK, 2 VSH, 3 Minn. Hyg. got them 2 June, after a couple of false starts,(Vic. E-mailed me claiming to have the order going out 2 weeks earlier). So, already 5 weeks behind schedule, I install the Queens, I just checked them yesterday, and found= 8 laying very poor shotgun brood, 1 superceded, and 1 laying very well ,after seeing the experiences of a lot of others, I am afraid that I may have spent over $300.00 for 1 good Queen. What is a delay of this kind worth? We need to be able to make plans with our local weather/ seasons in mind. I TRUSTED a vendor to stand behind their product even with questionable Custmer Service buying into the hype of being sooo busy in the yard to take care of us. Yet, I would time and again see others that did not take the time and forethought to plan a season, getting thier orders after a VERY short time! I sent e-mail this A.M. , but, I am worried . So far my experience is- 13 Queen bought in the last 2 seasons, with 2 being good, and 11 being duds. I feel that I gave the girls PLENTY of time to get on track as far as laying, as it is now these queens will not lay enough to ensure winter survival. As an example of what I was expecting; I installed a Virgin Queen that I raised from last year's SK Queen on 01 June, 09 June eggs were found, installed into 5 frame hive 12 June, filled 4 frames with eggs and brood by end of June , moved over to 10 frame box 03 July,,,, THAT is what I expect from a bug that is touted as the best in the country. Let's just say that my "faith" has been shaken to the core. If the Ra will respond to me I would be just as quick to post my positive feelings if a resolution is reached, not hopeful,,,,:ws:


----------



## Skinner Apiaries

eh if you guys are so worried, go down and 'knock' on the door. Bet you come out with a wad of cash or legal fees one! lol. I ordered some this year, I dont expect to see them. I concluded I put more in slot machines, so oh well.


----------



## VolunteerK9

Skinner Apiaries said:


> I concluded I put more in slot machines, so oh well.


I have to, but I knew what my odds were when I dropped the quarter and cranked the arm-didnt think ordering bees carried the same odds.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



Barry said:


> He didn't say Russell said it, he said "He "from another thread"".





Terry T said:


> when He "from another thread" and _*his employe "Twinkie " *_ from this thread call Mr Russells brother a thief


Unless this mysterious someone also employes "Twinkie", he was referring to Robert Russell.



Specialkayme said:


> Robert Russell has never called his brother a thief.


I read your above quote and interpreted it differently when I first read it. To me, saying that he "had come from my brother stealing nucs from his hives by taking the center 5 frames from each chamber and replacing them with culled combs that had been sitting in burn piles for years..." meant that he was taking the bees and were using them for something other than it's intended purpose, but not for his personal gain or benefit. Per the definition of "theft", that was not stealing. I realize that I probably misread it originally.

However, I fully agree that the above is nit picking the crud out of definitions  I stand corrected Terry. My apologies.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

There are many who believe "Twinkie" and RR are the same person.


----------



## valleyman

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

For the participants in the disagreement over whether he called his Brother a thief. I'm not going back and find the posts, but I distinctly remember him doing just that. Maybe not the exact quote. in one post he stated that his Brother is or was serving time for taking nucs that weren't his and sold them. That happened while his Father was still alive. According to him that's when his Father asked him to take over. Just my $.02 worth. By the way there are many ways to steal!!!


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



valleyman said:


> By the way there are many ways to steal!!!


Not according to the law.


----------



## Rather-b-beekeeping

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I have never dealt with Russel Apiaries. However, I have a buddy that purchased through Paypal fifteen queens. It has now been several months and no queens have arrived. When he calls he only gets his voicemail.

I don't understand why he is still taking orders when he obviously can't fill them. It seems that he is totally trashing his reputation by how he is conducting his business. I think customers would be far more understanding, if at least he would refund there payments and tell them that he is unable to fill there orders.


----------



## Saltybee

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

There is no doubt RA knows and practices genetics and has for a long time. No doubt anyone can get in over their heads farming and when changing their markets.

Many RA supporters know business the way RA knows bees. I have no doubt that business advice would be freely given if it would be accepted.

Continuing to take orders without fair notice of delivery may be a matter of poor luck or business planning in the short term, in the long term it becomes a matter of ethics. Maintaining high ethical standards is harder and harder as the pressure mounts, easy when things are easy.

Leaving your friends and supporters in an uncomfortable position for so long is at best grossly oblivious of them.

It is sad for RA, his supporters, Beesource and the community as a whole. 

Myself, if I ever receive queens or a refund I will consider it found money.


----------



## Diogenes

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



camero7 said:


> There are many who believe "Twinkie" and RR are the same person.


While this is off topic, if you are hunting "Sock-Puppets", i.e. users who are running alternate handles, the easiest way to do this (short of admin access) is to click on the username and view the user's post history. It should become blindingly clear to you after a very little bit of reading that "TwinkieBee" is *not* Robert Russell.

Reviewing anyone's post history is quite informative. Gives you a good feel for their intellect and temperament. And, with some users, you just have to wonder what planet they came from, after looking at their post history.

The Sock-Puppets do stand out. After reviewing post histories a little while, you will be able to spot them without much effort. Like anything, it takes practice.

OK, back to the topic. This was enough of a distraction.


----------



## Beezly

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Anybody else having trouble accessing RA website as of today?


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I could access it this morning, but not now. I think the ".webs" is down.


----------



## Saltybee

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Your right, down.


----------



## Apple Farmer

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Funny you should mention that. I came here after trying and failing to get on their forum.

They can leave the site down and concentrate on getting out the BACK ORDERS of queens or refunds......someone pinch me I'm dreaming!


----------



## seal62

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



Saltybee said:


> There is no doubt RA knows and practices genetics and has for a long time. No doubt anyone can get in over their heads farming and when changing their markets.
> 
> Many RA supporters know business the way RA knows bees. I have no doubt that business advice would be freely given if it would be accepted.
> 
> Continuing to take orders without fair notice of delivery may be a matter of poor luck or business planning in the short term, in the long term it becomes a matter of ethics. Maintaining high ethical standards is harder and harder as the pressure mounts, easy when things are easy.
> 
> Leaving your friends and supporters in an uncomfortable position for so long is at best grossly oblivious of them.
> 
> It is sad for RA, his supporters, Beesource and the community as a whole.
> 
> Myself, if I ever receive queens or a refund I will consider it found money.


Salty ...very well said . The simple biz advice is as it was last year , hire someone to pick up the phone . Taking orders with out delivery is criminal. This thread just wont die , i really wish it would . Sadly a couple times a week someone adds to it , no bees . My order was for early May , payed for last June for all that are late on this topic . My advice is this , if ya need a queen check to see if they have them ready to ship . My dealings with Zia, http://ziaqueenbees.com/ . Kelleys https://kelleybees.com/Products/#ca...332303631366536343230353137353635363536653733 . Ask for the hygienics . Furgesons http://www.fergusonapiaries.on.ca/index.php .. OK ,,,ordering a couple queens off this guy is worth the call . He will talk your ear off , he digs talking about bees . Then theres this guy http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?265118-Vsh-queens . He picks up the phone too . Im pretty happy with the queens i got off of him , and everybody i listed . Drama free . Every one backs up their bees , they pick up the phone ,,,or return e mail. Just as i was gonna add fuel about Bob selling Canadian Buckfest when hes in Ms i go to pull a link and his page is down . Just me or is Russells page down ? Yea im real shocked.


----------



## Diogenes

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



seal62 said:


> ....<snip>.... Just as i was gonna add fuel about Bob selling Canadian Buckfest when hes in Ms i go to pull a link and his page is down . Just me or is Russells page down ? Yea im real shocked.


I don't see an issue with Russell selling Canadian Buckfast. If you follow the link you posted, Ferguson *does* ship to the US. 

I'm pretty sure that of the multitude of State-Level satellite Russell Apiaries being set-up, their New York state operation has been in operation for a while, so acclimatization shouldn't be an issue. Think about it, send the best queens from their northern operations south for the winter, and hey-presto, early season, acclimatized stock from Mississippi.

Your point about business advice is spot on. What Russell Apiaries needs is someone who has some experience doing retail sales to handle the folks who go nuts 3 weeks after their order was placed and is 2 days past the requested ship date. Russell Apiaries doesn't seem able to handle people like that.


----------



## Diogenes

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

The Russell Apiaries website is back. 

Given that I got a Webs.com page first, then later the full web site, I'm betting the problem was with their hosting provider. Nothings seems to have changed since I last looked. 

*Update:* Ah, on the other hand, I spoke too soon. Webs.com is still having problems. I guess

You can collect your links now, be a shame to let that fuel go to waste.


----------



## Birdman

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Good to see I'm not the only one having problems. Thought I might have gotten baned. lol Not like I have any need to go back.


----------



## beeker

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

This was posted yesterday on their forum in response to someone that has been waiting for several months for a refund. It sounds like they may not even be checking their email right now due to "training". Another post from yesterday says they are running at about 60% of their normal production levels right now. WHY are they still accepting orders on their web site???



> I checked your name on the commercial schedule since I can't get into the big computer system because the girls (ladies. My bad) are at a training course. Your on the schedule but there is no date and the note says "wasn't ready when his splits were. Wants to receive in summer or fall for splits." Don't know if you saw my message on here about no one is seeing the emails right now or not. They have moved into a new building and are training new ladies so they are only getting into the emails every once in a while to use them for training. They probably haven't seen you ask for a refund or they didn't get it to Doc when he was in town so I put your name on my list to ask them about.


----------



## Saltybee

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Another RA post says that most orders are declined during the processing with commercial orders being accepted. Have not tried myself. RA is trying to organize for refunds or next year delivery at customer choice. There is more communication going on on the Ra site than there has been recently. 
Not perfect or even good yet but some positive signs after the vacuum of information.
Some progress on the State sites with some limited queen availability from what I read.


----------



## jones

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

After I ordered queens in late Dec, got a refund in March, and Victoria (employed there) told me they had gotten behind because of a storm and power outages. (?) Now that I need queens again and am finding out others continue to have issues, I guess I will look elsewhere. Sad because I like the ease of just ordering online and not having to take off work to drive an hour & whatnot.


----------



## Keth Comollo

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



jones said:


> Sad because I like the ease of just ordering online


Full Bloom Apiaries in CT has a good reputation for queens and you can order them online.


----------



## jones

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

thanks for the tip!


----------



## Skinner Apiaries

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

They just sent me an email, and a shipping label was created, so that's going to make them 2 for 2 if they get here ok. Let's see if as a professional, I have better luck installing them, no attendents, and on top of other cordovan bees.


----------



## Keth Comollo

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I installed a Moonbeam on June 27th under a push in introduction cage. Released her on July 1. Have 5 frames of solid capped brood wall to wall on the frames and she has layed in 4 more frames. I am impressed so far.


----------



## Saltybee

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Careful, your going to kick off another case of queen envy in me and I haven't completely cured the last episode.


----------



## Beezly

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Ordered my queens, got them today within the 45 day period they state on website. alive and healthy. I had Patience with the communications. I would order from them again without hesitation and will, just now it will have to be from the offshoots they are starting. Looking forward to seeing them in action. Even if it had been 90 or 180 days, i would still respond the same way. Faith always pays off.


----------



## rookie beekeeper john

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

im 63 days past the date i ordered them for. I'm still waiting.


----------



## julysun

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

In cases where folk have paid for a product and never received it, here we have a small claims court that handle those problems. I think going there, to a small claims court, would be more effective than repeatedly posting here. IMHO :lookout:


----------



## broodhead

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

When RA first showed up here I ordered a few queens and it was like pulling eye teeth to get my queens. They finally arrived and I did as I usually do and evaluated these queens as I do others. My results concluded that my RA queens were not performing as well as they were stated by RA. My wife and I also invested with Madoff, looks like we had the same results!! Remember, most science is theory based and we all know what a theory is.


----------



## Lauri

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I emailed Russells last week. Here is a copy of that email:

VIctoria, I have refrained from endlessly emailing you, but really, my order is well beyond receiving now. I ordered in early March and my delivery date came and went with no contact from your company. 

Someone who worked at your business contacted you for me and you sent me some virgins instead, Problem was, they were mostly not the variety I ordered. Here is your email:


In a message dated 5/22/2012 8:09:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Hey Lauri,
We are sending you 12 SunKist Northern Selection and 8 English Buckfast virgins. The SunKist Cordovans won't be available until later in the week, I will send some of those as well if you would like. Thanks! 
Tracking no: EI110291711US


Here is my return email to Victoria:

I got your email about the virgins being shipped. The Cordovan Sunkists 
were the ones I ordered, so yes later in the week when they are available I 
would appreciate it if you would send them. I've been making mini mating nuc 
box's like crazy all day and will be ready when they arrive. Thanks again.
Lauri Miller

Here is my only email to them-sent on 5-30-12..a friendly reminder they were still supposed to ship some queens:

Victoria, I would like to at least pay for shipping on the second box of virgins. Please let me know what I owe you. And no sense in shipping a half empty box-so please let me know how much it would be to fill it, if there are enough cordovans to spare.
Hope you're making progress and can have a day off soon

Lauri Miller



The Cordovans were the variety I ordered the most of and I have been waiting ever since May 22 for their arrival. 

It is now almost August and I have not heard anything. No information, no excuses, no explanations. 

Virgin queens will not work for me now, and I would appreciate some kind of refund. 

As usual, I have had absolutly no response. As I said in an earlier post, it is like this company dosen't even exist.


I would prefer they send any refund they feel is fair to a local food bank. With such a frustrating experience with Russells, I don't even want my money back, but darn it, I don't want them to just be able to keep it ether. I paid a bit over $200.00. That would help out a needy family.

I see several people posting about placing orders recently and getting queens shipped almost immediatly??? It makes no sense.

I should also add that in June, I sent Robherc all my email correspondence to and from Russells and Pay Pal info. He presented my case, along with others, to Dr. Russell in a single email. It took Dr. Russell two weeeks to read that email. That was a month ago and I have heard nothing from anyone.

I hate this thread, but it is hard to keep quiet.


----------



## joshk

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I am too on the not happy list. I know I will be ganged up by supporters but if I can help make someone elses decision to order easier I will do it. I ordered my queens last december for early may delivery, before all these problems were really started and the positive reviews out weighed the negative. I did receive the queens I ordered with one substitution, "upgrade" as they put it, at the end of May. No complaints really about shipping late, this is a ag based business and things happen, I thought I was fortunate to get my queens. However, once they were released it was obvious they were not as good of quality that everyone chimed in about. These queens were very small, they looked liked virgins or banked queens. I checked them over and two of the three flew off the frame. I knew I had been had at that point. Even the virgin queens I have ordered in the past never flew the frame like these did. Fast forward two months, one queen doing o.k. (definately not laying up a storm), two others are dead. One laid eggs for awhile then was superseded and that queen never made it back to the hive. I understand that he owes me nothing technically, but he is quick to point out that he pulls queens the day they are shipped (not banked). As far as I can tell he is false advertising, the queens I have ordered in the past never had problems like this. I have emailed them several times and no response. I am out $60, not much by most peoples standard, but it is a lot to me and my family who are trying to start a small side business since we are a single income family. Lesson learned, buy from a well established queen breeder or raise my own.


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

This was on their website this morning:

_robhughesMember
Posts: 45 Big changes are coming tonight. The website is getting a facelift tonight by the computer guy in Australia. The forum is part of the changes so don't be mad if your postings are gone when you wake up it's nothing personal he just told me that he may lose some of the stuff that's here while he's doing what he does. Doc says he will be tryin to make some postings on here too when he gets back but he says he will only be posting on educational stuff so send messages to me if you need something looked into. There is gonna be a page where you can go to get to all of the local operations and the items in the store will be changed too. Post here if you need help using the new website so we can be lost and confused together. Lmao. _ 

It seems as if RA doesnt have time to sort through emails or invoices looking for lost orders but they have time to communicate with an Australian site developer to revamp the website which might, just might remove some peoples postings. How convienent when the majority of the most current postings start off with "wheres my order". And even the Doc himself may make an appearance to bestow some more educational words of bee wisdom! 

It was stated yesterday on their forum that all refunds or cancellations were at the sole discretion of RR (which I admit, I never read before so it was stupid on my part to place an order in the first place) and second than when I ordered in December of 2011, I was placed on a list. Now I realize that dates are tentative, but I am more than curious to find out how orders placed in March/April were filled before mine.


----------



## brushmouth

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



VolunteerK9 said:


> This was on their website this morning:
> 
> _robhughesMember
> Posts: 45 Big changes are coming tonight. The website is getting a facelift tonight by the computer guy in Australia. The forum is part of the changes so don't be mad if your postings are gone when you wake up it's nothing personal he just told me that he may lose some of the stuff that's here while he's doing what he does. Doc says he will be tryin to make some postings on here too when he gets back but he says he will only be posting on educational stuff so send messages to me if you need something looked into. There is gonna be a page where you can go to get to all of the local operations and the items in the store will be changed too. Post here if you need help using the new website so we can be lost and confused together. Lmao. _
> 
> It seems as if RA doesnt have time to sort through emails or invoices looking for lost orders but they have time to communicate with an Australian site developer to revamp the website which might, just might remove some peoples postings. How convienent when the majority of the most current postings start off with "wheres my order". And even the Doc himself may make an appearance to bestow some more educational words of bee wisdom!
> 
> It was stated yesterday on their forum that all refunds or cancellations were at the sole discretion of RR (which I admit, I never read before so it was stupid on my part to place an order in the first place) and second than when I ordered in December of 2011, I was placed on a list. Now I realize that dates are tentative, but I am more than curious to find out how orders placed in March/April were filled before mine.


As a youth I had the privilege of meeting Dr. Farrar from the University of WI, he left me with a positive
outlook on beekeeping which has followed me thru life. 
When Dr. Russell came known to me I foolishly figured that these guys had something in common.
I believe they do, both men share a lot of knowledge in their chosen field, however that simple trust and mistaken belief has since been tainted by Dr. Russell.
A refund of $237.50 (Sept 2011 payment)which was promised me by Victoria in an email in May/June of 2012, has never been made. 
Almost daily calls only reach a full voice mail and emails remain unanswered.
Paypal and Visa tell me that it's been too long ago to take action 
(works well under "guidelines"as an excuse allowing continued abuse, while everyone profits) 

I apologize to the board for defending Dr. Russell earlier, but at the time looked like it was unfair.
My earlier experience in 2010 was favorable and I had no reason to doubt the trust I had placed in the 
good doctor. 

I and other innocent victims of your own misfortune, do not deserve to share the pain, shame on you.
Dr. Russell, your fathers legacy is at risk and your status as a mentor is in grave peril, you need to make it right. Please respond and send my refund.

Fellow beekeepers, be advised that you order from Dr. Russell at YOUR OWN RISK 
In fact you are on your own.....LITERALLY ! 
All IMO
BM


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I was chastened on the russell site for kicking them when they are down and the people left posting there are cult members. The amount I was defrauded of like yours was not enough to justify hiring a lawyer for. Other than warning others not to do business with these people. It is time to just let it go.


----------



## larry l

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

if you mailed payment or order complain to postal inspectors
if you used a charge card do a chargeback.


----------



## NW_Mark

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



Vance G said:


> I was chastened on the russell site for kicking them when they are down and the people left posting there are cult members.



So i can take it the Kool Aid here is better.


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



Vance G said:


> I was chastened on the russell site ...


So you are complaining because they curtailed your sexual activity? Isn't that what "chastened" means? As in when one remains chaste? ie celibit? Maybe you were chastized?


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



sqkcrk said:


> So you are complaining because they curtailed your sexual activity? Isn't that what "chastened" means? As in when one remains chaste? ie celibit? Maybe you were chastized?


No actually I think Vance was correct in his usage. Lets not try getting into the guys personal life he's already upset enough. You better recheck your New York revised edition


----------



## Kaz

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I am waiting on a refund from "ra". They clipped my wings for $1200.00. I purchased overwintered nucs for spring delivery, April to be exact. I am hoping to get the refund. I just wonder about the money. "ra" if they are solvent should be setting on sizable cash reserves. If they are not in a good cash position, what happened to the money?


----------



## TIMER

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

WOW! Every time this thread pops up someone new has been ripped off.
I thought awhile back some of the RA fan club said it was only a couple of people.
It seems to be many many more than they claim:scratch:
I have noticed the defenders pulling back a bit.
I doubt if many will ever receive what is owed to them:waiting:
All we ever wanted were the magic bees we were promised:lpf:


----------



## DPLONG

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I purchased some equipment from them back in March, still no sign of it. Five Nuc Boxes, $130.50. The first email I sent received a reply that they would be shipping my equipment shortly. I've sent multiple messages now and have not received any replies. I realize they had some hard times but at this point all I want is my money.


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Some folks have a vocabulary, some folks have proletarian shibboleths. I am not upset with anyone, just edjucated.


----------



## JohnAllen

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

In one more week it will be a year since I sent them money for 5 Moonbeam queens, requesting delivery in early May. When that didn't happen I was told that they were shipping the week of May 28. After that I was told that I was at the top of the list for shipping. I told them that late summer bees would not be good for me and asked for substitution of some other kind of bee. When there was no response I asked for a refund but now my emails are being ignored. Robert may have good intentions and may produce some interesting genetics but the customer service side of the operation is obviously poorly managed.

The excuse for delayed shipping of the Moonbeam queens is that queen cells were damaged by UPS during shipping from the breeding yard to the mating yard, not once but twice! Next time I will be wise enough to order from someone who is small enough to truck queen cells to the mating yard themselves.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



JohnAllen said:


> Next time I will be wise enough to order from someone who is small enough to truck queen cells to the mating yard themselves.


Ordering from someone that small does give you the benefit that no cells could be damaged through shipping. But it adds even more potential problems, including recessive lines and inbreeding, not to mention missed dates. If an operation running 1,000 hives has a mis-hap that causes them to lose 25% of their order potential, the same could hold true for someone that is running 100 hives. Not saying it happens in all, or even most, operations. But to say that the small guys don't have as many issues wouldn't be a true statement.


----------



## Kaz

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Barry, you are directly on point. Regardless of the business that you endeavor, the customer has to find value in your goods or services. The final decision will be made by the customer. Money talks and bull ---- walks. Evidently the " side liner" is important to "ra" or they would not have pursued the business. Obviously, they were accustom to doing business with the big guys and did not make the investment into their business to facilitate the orders that they received. I feel that their old customer base has been serviced "taking care of business " and all the small guys orders were filled if there was an excess of product. After all, they have a cult that defends them. The most striking ordeal is this ; they like your money, and will not give it back. I think that the fact that they make no refunds shows exactly their motive. Profit, I got your money and you can not get it back. Getting back on topic, if you have ordered and have not received product, don't buy from these people again. Tell all your friends your experiences, if they choose to do business with them, then you have done all that you could do. To end this conversation, if you got beat, don't waste any more money on these people, I will be beat only once.
Dan Kazmierski


----------



## frazzledfozzle

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

why was my post deleted as being off topic?

Whats off topic about noting that months have gone past since the original thread was started and everyone is still blathering on and on ?

Is it ever going to stop? when is enough enough?

Dont you think there's enough info on this thread now for people to make an informed decision or is this going to go on ad nauseum?


----------



## beemandan

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



frazzledfozzle said:


> Dont you think there's enough info on this thread now for people to make an informed decision or is this going to go on ad nauseum?


Evidently there are a lot of posters who don't think it is finished. And then it is equally evident that there are a number of readers who are still interested....look at you and me.....we're still reading the new stuff.


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Everybody looks at car crashes. Almost everybody.


----------



## brushmouth

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



frazzledfozzle said:


> why was my post deleted as being off topic?
> 
> Whats off topic about noting that months have gone past since the original thread was started and everyone is still blathering on and on ?
> 
> Is it ever going to stop? when is enough enough?
> 
> Dont you think there's enough info on this thread now for people to make an informed decision or is this going to go on ad nauseum?


When we are in receipt of moneys due, really not that hard to understand for most?
"Blathering" as you call it, is a result of being ripped off and feeling like it.

BM


----------



## Keth Comollo

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I find the UNSUBSCRIBE link in the emails very handy. But it is hard to not to look.


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

What I find interesting is across the board from queens, to nucs, to woodenware there's customers that still haven't received either the product, the refund, or the communication! From 1 queenie to dozens of nucs. I think it's disgraceful and would hope they take a hard look at themselves and before another season goes by, make it right or get out of this business.


----------



## bnm1000

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

I think this is exactly the intent of the Consumer Report Forum. The thread will die when customers who have paid money receive either their products or their refunds.

It also provides others with knowledge of reputable service/product suppliers. It amazes me that some people are attacked for coming on a public forum complaining about not receiving their product. It would be more understandable if some people complained about the service or performance of the queens not being up to par - some of these complaints are subjective and possibly the fault of the bee keeper. However, why would someone be attacked because they paid hundreds of dollars and never received a product and can't get an answer to their emails!

This thread saved me money. I suspect it saved some others money as well....


----------



## heus

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Its all about communication. The buyer deserves the right to have his/her calls or emails answered in a timely fashion. This is 2012, right?


----------



## Beetrucker74

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*



TIMER said:


> WOW! Every time this thread pops up someone new has been ripped off.
> I thought awhile back some of the RA fan club said it was only a couple of people.
> It seems to be many many more than they claim:scratch:
> I have noticed the defenders pulling back a bit.
> I doubt if many will ever receive what is owed to them:waiting:
> All we ever wanted were the magic bees we were promised:lpf:


No most of us have better things to do. I should throw more gas on the fire. It is amusing to see some of the stuff in the thread. I have my opinion and others have theirs. But some of the stuff is funny you have to admit.


----------



## theriverhawk

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

This thread will stop when new "victims" stop...

Sadly, because RA continues to take orders, it appears that for 2012, it will not end...


----------



## dragonfly

*Re: Queens from Russel apiaries*

Ladies and gentlemen, please keep the thread on-topic, and refrain from analyzing motives. Thanks.


----------



## preciousbeesfarm

preciousbeesfarm said:


> I was a "beliver" in RA. I 1st ordered last year 3 Sunkist, out of 3 1 did fantastic, 2 were killed, I took responsibility for being an "unexperienced" Bee Keeper, (which I am not),. So I tried again this year, ordered in Feb for late April delivery. 10 Queens, 5 SK, 2 VSH, 3 Minn. Hyg. got them 2 June, after a couple of false starts,(Vic. E-mailed me claiming to have the order going out 2 weeks earlier). So, already 5 weeks behind schedule, I install the Queens, I just checked them yesterday, and found= 8 laying very poor shotgun brood, 1 superceded, and 1 laying very well ,after seeing the experiences of a lot of others, I am afraid that I may have spent over $300.00 for 1 good Queen. What is a delay of this kind worth? We need to be able to make plans with our local weather/ seasons in mind. I TRUSTED a vendor to stand behind their product even with questionable Custmer Service buying into the hype of being sooo busy in the yard to take care of us. Yet, I would time and again see others that did not take the time and forethought to plan a season, getting thier orders after a VERY short time! I sent e-mail this A.M. , but, I am worried . So far my experience is- 13 Queen bought in the last 2 seasons, with 2 being good, and 11 being duds. I feel that I gave the girls PLENTY of time to get on track as far as laying, as it is now these queens will not lay enough to ensure winter survival. As an example of what I was expecting; I installed a Virgin Queen that I raised from last year's SK Queen on 01 June, 09 June eggs were found, installed into 5 frame hive 12 June, filled 4 frames with eggs and brood by end of June , moved over to 10 frame box 03 July,,,, THAT is what I expect from a bug that is touted as the best in the country. Let's just say that my "faith" has been shaken to the core. If the Ra will respond to me I would be just as quick to post my positive feelings if a resolution is reached, not hopeful,,,,:ws:


After contacting Rob on RA web site a few weeks ago,, I got a notification that today replacement Queens are going to arrive this afternoon via UPS. I am very pleased that they would do this, and will be able to put to rest the negitive feeling that I have been experiencing. All bussiness ventures have issues that can and will arise. The bussinesses that learn and correct the issues with their customers will succeed. RA has done that for me, it has taken some time , but such is the nature of raising Queens, I am very happy with RA, and I do hope them the best, and will keep the option open for more orders in the future.:applause:


----------



## Grant

I can't say I've found anything malevolent in RA's dealings with me, but it's been a couple of years. I'd like to chalk it up to growing pains and adjusting to a very positive product in high demand. Sometimes the drama and hyperbole needs to be taken down a notch. Nobody's perfect, but good communication can sure salve, and solve a lot of problems.

I am amazed the number of people who don't read the consumer reports section prior to ordering, even if they fail to search the archives and merely start a new thread with, "Anyone have any experience with XYZ?" With information at their finger tips and mouse clicks, why are there so many new "victims?"

Grant
Jackson, MO


----------



## Vance G

Still no sign of my 15 MAY queens! Those poor folks at Russells must be worried to death about it.


----------



## swarm_trapper

rest easy Vance no one over there will miss any sleep. lol


----------



## rookie beekeeper john

I've been holding my breath since may 20th. can't hold it any longer. lol


----------



## Apple Farmer

With the season getting so shot I gave up on the Moonbeams I had ordered and sent a message to Rob telling him I would take Danish in their place. Two days later I had an email from Victoria that 5 Danish were shipped and a SKC would be shipped later if I still wanted it.

Queens arrived the next day. Danged UPS driver would have left them on the porch in the hot sun if the wife hadn't spotted him walking away! Package lable states very clearly do not leave in the sun!


----------



## sqkcrk

You have to be proactive. Let your UPS Depot know you want them to hold them so you can pick them up at the Depot. You should not expect a driver, w/ all they have to keep track of, to read anything.


----------



## VolunteerK9

Apple Farmer said:


> With the season getting so shot I gave up on the Moonbeams I had ordered and sent a message to Rob telling him I would take Danish in their place. Two days later I had an email from Victoria that 5 Danish were shipped and a SKC would be shipped later if I still wanted it.
> 
> Queens arrived the next day. Danged UPS driver would have left them on the porch in the hot sun if the wife hadn't spotted him walking away! Package lable states very clearly do not leave in the sun!


Glad you at least got something..many of us are still waiting..for a refund at this point though.


----------



## Vance G

xx


----------



## Vance G

Does proactive mean not expecting UPS employees to do the job they are paid for? I will never forget the first time i heard that word. We were supposed to be Proactive in eliminating Buzz Words from our official correspondence! Of course that was a guvmint job during the Clinton Administration.


----------



## Brandy

Interesting Preciousbeesfarm, I got my queens June 1 and out of the 6, 3 Sunkist, 3 Moonbeams, only got 1 drone layer out of the group. Obviously it wasn't a very good batch or they were pulled and held over the Memorial day weekend, or the little guys, us, got the duds. Only RA knows about that. But pretty interesting that a couple of us indeed didn't get quite the quality that we were looking for. At least you got some replacements, I got the cold shoulder as others have.


----------



## Oldtimer

Ha Ha! Proactive in eliminating Buzz Words. Very funny Vance, a great oxymoron.


----------



## beemandan

I’m not too fond of the word proactive either. I worked for a fellow who, whenever things didn’t go exactly right would tell everyone that they needed to be more proactive. I remember that we had a load of equipment shipped, the shipping company lost it for a week and when it finally arrived much of the stuff was damaged. The old fool still insisted that we could have headed it off if we’d been more proactive. That was over a decade ago….and the word still pi…..annoys me.


----------



## Saltybee

Those with long term relationships with RA tend to be supporters, I did not worry about intent to make right, I did worry about ability to make it right.

When RA is able to make something right, I take it as a positive sign. I am glad to read those posts.
Enough has been said to warn anybody of the troubles. A good post should not be a call to go negative.


----------



## Nichols747

Dare I ask if anyone has an email or phone number for RA? I've had no contact since sending them my money, and want to try to arrange delivery for next year, instead of this one, and their website appears to be down...


----------



## Shazam

Brandy,

You're confirming what I thought. I also got bees that arrived on June 1. They were supposed to arrive (guaranteed by USPS in fact) on the 31st, but they sat an extra day in the Jackson MI USPS facility according to their tracker. That shipment was pretty much all rejected, except 1 non layer. There was another person or two who got bees early june (I presume also June 1) with that problem. I suspect that whole batch was damaged from sitting in heat. Enough to harm the queens without killing them, as prior and following RA queens didn't have that problem. Also you might try and contact them further. They made good on replacing my queens at their cost.


----------



## Saltybee

Nichols 747,
Rob Hughs there is keeping a list of orders moved to next year. When the site is up, it will be again, if you take his name on a posting it will bring up the RA e-mail link. Also through contact us above I believe.


----------



## sqkcrk

Vance G said:


> Does proactive mean not expecting UPS employees to do the job they are paid for? I will never forget the first time i heard that word. We were supposed to be Proactive in eliminating Buzz Words from our official correspondence! Of course that was a guvmint job during the Clinton Administration.


Ever heard the saying "Trust, but verify."?

I'm just telling you what I do when I am expecting queens in the Mail or via UPS. When I invest thousands of dollars into something as fragile and important I do what I can to ensure successful delivery.

But, if you want to depend on others doing their job, well, what can I say?

Okay, a number of you don't like the word "proactive". What word would you like to be used to describe doing what one can to ensure successful delivery of queens?


----------



## camero7

It's important to develop a relationship with your local PO if you get queens in the mail. I always go into the PO a couple of days before and tell them I'm expecting bees. I also wrote a letter to the postmaster about how helpful and good his employees were [well deserved]. I get a call about 6 am when the bees hit the PO and they take great care of them. I think proactive is the correct word for it.


----------



## beemandan

sqkcrk said:


> Okay, a number of you don't like the word "proactive".


It's just a word. Properly used, as you did, the word itself is fine. In my case, I associate it with a fool who misused it. If I live long enough, I may get over it.


----------



## Intheswamp

sqkcrk said:


> <snip>
> 
> Okay, a number of you don't like the word "proactive". What word would you like to be used to describe doing what one can to ensure successful delivery of queens?


How about..."Covering your butt"? Oh wait a minute, that's two, no wait a minute, three, yeah three words. Yeah that's my final answer!!! Uh, wait a minute, you said you only wanted one word....uh, I got it!!!....

"Kuvrhennurbuhtski". 

...and here's the story!!!!!

My great, great, great, great, great Scottish grandfather discovered it while on a journey in southern India riding an elephant back in 1743 (might have been 1742 but I wasn't there so I can't be sure). Anyhow, after journeying for several days his derriere became dreadfully pained from sitting on the rough back of his ornery elephant and made the comment that it felt like a swarm of bees had stung his backside. The mahout who was managing the elephants was actually a royal descendent of Oleg of Novgorod of what would become known one day as the Russian Empire. The mahout had come to India to avoid imprisonment by the then established Russian Empire for heading up a black market potato smuggling ring. He bragged about being the only redheaded mahout in all of India and was seen by his peers as being some kind of "elephant whisperer".

Anyhow, the locals were really gossipers and the mahout eventually found out about my great, great, great, great, great Scottish grandfather's plight. The mahout told him to take the cloth wrapped around his head and sit on it. My great, great, great, great, great Scottish grandfather asked him why and with a heavy Slavic accent the mahout told him "The elephant's back is too rough for your tenders...you need something "Kuvrhennurbuhtski". My great, great, great, great, great Scottish grandfather was so elated with this wonderful discovery that he wrote several papers on the subject and sent them by special courier back to the Edinburgh University Faculty of Medicine. 

Unfortunately, as the story unfolds, the courier opted to sail across the Arabian Sea to Africa and take the North African Route back to Scotland. It was during the courier's travel across the African continent that he and his party encountered a large band of cannibals and had breakfast with them...and lunch, and supper. My great, great, great, great, great Scottish grandfather eventually returned to Scotland expecting a hero's welcome but sadly arrived to find out that his life's greatest accomplishment, his papers on "Kuvrhennurbuhtski" had failed to arrive. He died a broken-hearted jake in an alley behind the University in Edenburgh sitting on an old, tattered (and soiled...YUCK!!) piece of what once was some white cloth. A sad, sad story but I felt that I had to share this.









Wiping tears from my eyes,
Ed


----------



## sqkcrk

Yer werkin' 2 hard Ed. I didn't read the story at all after I read "cover your butt". If it isn't being proactive, I don't know what it is. All I know is, if Ido everything I can to make things work and queens arrive dead, then I know I have a claim.

Russell sent me some queens last year and they arrived just fine. 

I think we get the point. Some folks haven't gotten satisfactory service. Too bad those who have are not as vocal. But that isn't how people work. The satisfied never speak as loudly or as often as the dissatisfied. I don't know the answers to those who have not gotten what they ordered. Find a more dependable source, I guess.


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## broodhead

Very Interesting, sounds like you came from a great bloodline!! Truly amazing story, thought for a minute that you were going to say that the ole grandfather brought the Moonbeams back from North Africa. Tell me, did he pick up a few Arabian or Syrian line of bees??


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## sqkcrk

If Russel Apiaries is no longer selling to individuals, what about their outlets across the Nation? Will they still be supplying Russell Apiaries queens?


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## Beetrucker74

The subproducers will be selling to the local hobbist market. That way there will be better customer service and still have the selection and most will be acclimated to those areas. All lines sold by the subproducers will come for RA breeders. Some will simply be open mated and a few will be mated in isolated areas with them flooded with drones. Robert has been proactive on getting the situation straightened out. A few of us are already shipping and trying to help catch up the backlog. But most are still ramping up for next year.


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## Intheswamp

I do hope this works out, Beetrucker. Russell's has apparently had a good reputation in years past and I hope that they can correct the problems that appeared once they ventured into the hobbiest area and retain that good reputation. From what I understand (as a newbee) the honey bee gene pool has gotten smaller as time has progressed. There are many areas where only hobbyists reside and these areas can use all the varied genes possible, excluding AHB of course.

Ed


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## julysun

Beetrucker74; Keep us posted on you actions, will want some spring queens.


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## Keth Comollo

The Moonbeam queen I got on June 24th is one of my top queens this year. If she lives through winter she will be one of my two breeder queens next year.


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## Beetrucker74

@ Julysun Will do, if all goes well I will start shipping sometime in May.


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## Saltybee

The PA site has some limited availability, I believe. That is the only one I have seen as a comment on the RA site. http://www.russellapiariespa.com/


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## Beetrucker74

That is my site. I do have a limited number of queens ready to ship in the next few weeks.


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## beemandan

Beetrucker74 said:


> Robert has been *proactive* on getting the situation straightened out.


There's that word again! I'm thinkin' that there are some posters here who believe that he hasn't even been *post*active.


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## Saltybee

The man does bees well, he obviously did commercial sales well. He shares knowledge freely and well. He did not do retail sales and communications well. No, I did not get my order.

The horse is dead, beating on it more will not make it run any faster.

RA had a choice, slam the door on the little guy or completely change his business plan again. At the risk of a royal roasting, I support RA's attempt to keep his strains available.

Beetrucker74, keep your head low.


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## Specialkayme

Very wise Saltybee.


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## GDubs

I have yet to receive my 4 SKC they were supposed to ship the first week in june. They stopped responding to emails.....


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## VolunteerK9

Well, at least we're not the only ones RA wont respond to. Just got this email from the Mississippi BBB today:

_This message is in regard to your complaint submitted on 7/13/2012 7:23:32 AM against Russell Apiaries. Your complaint was assigned ID 9....29.

The Bureau has decided to close this complaint and note that the business did not respond to the complaint.

This complaint will be reflected on the company's BBB Reliability Report with the following language: *"The company failed to respond either to the consumer or the Bureau to the complaint(s) filed."*Please feel free to contact us with any further questions.

Regards,



Linda Clopton 
Director of Dispute Resolution_


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## Intheswamp

Terror strikes the heart of businesses when the BBB bares it's gums at them...


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## VolunteerK9

intheswamp said:


> terror strikes the heart of businesses when the bbb bares it's gums at them...


lol


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## JohnAllen

They can choose to ignore the BBB the same way they do many of their customers but on a scale of A+ to F Russell Apiaries is now rated F by the BBB and there may be some potential customers who see this rating. After waiting for bees that I paid for more than a year ago I've given up. I asked more than once for substitutes of a different strain if the ones I wanted were unavailable, but was ignored. I finally have asked, more than once, for a refund. There has been no response. I'll be adding my complaint to the one VolunteerK9 submitted to the BBB and suggest that other unhappy customers do the same.

Russell reminds me of the guy who sold soup on the Jerry Seinfeld show. He has sent bees to people he likes, including free samples of the strain that I paid for, while ignoring lots of other paying customers.


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## Diogenes

A complaint to the BBB? Really?

When was the last time you consulted the BBB *before* making a purchase? Personally, I've never looked at the BBB for anything. Though, having worked retail once upon a day, I am well aware how completely useless the BBB is.

And, GDubs, you can go file that complaint. Please don't hold your breath over the cops doing anything about it though. Unless it's traffic enforcement revenue aka "Road-side tax collection", the local law enforcement boys are not interested. Period. Still, go ahead and try it and report back what progress you get.

So, far, it seems that the best results are gotten by contacting the Russell Apiaries "ombudsman", RobHughes. You'll have to send him a message at the Russell Apiaries site. Link> http://russellapiaries.webs.com/apps/forums/ <link. Send a message to RobHughes and he will look-up your order and see what happened. (or rather what didn't happen) Some orders flow through on silicone greases skids, others go sideways. And Rob is the guy fixing the sideways stuff.

The worst of the queens I got from Russell Apiaries took a week to resume laying. Then she scared me by laying in only the 2 inches of drone cells on the day she resumed and I checked. When I checked back 2 days later, she had 2 and a half deep frames filled with worker eggs. And she was laying as I watched. So far, so good.


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## VolunteerK9

Diogenes said:


> A complaint to the BBB? Really?


Yup really and I don't care if the person that received the complaint printed it off and made a little paper airplane to sail it into the garbage can either. I did what I felt like I needed to do. Ive contaced Hughes, RRussell and Victoria-all the people Ive been told to contact and have heard nothing in return. Still have the Paypal invoice of which Ive posted on their forum a few times as well. Still nothing.

I have also filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission Consumer Protection-once again Im not anticipating a miracle to happen but I do not take getting ripped off quietly nor peacefully, neither should the rest of you.


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## mudlake

What is the difference between RA and a lawyer? Tony


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## Kaz

Well, I think that there is strength in numbers. Plainly stated,all people who have been charged for something that they did not get should pursue the same outcome" refund with interest". I am personally going to Mississippi to file a claim in small claims court. I would urge everyone to do the same. I do not know Mississippi state law but if those who can't physically travel there , well maybe there would be a lawyer that would take it up on a percentage basic. I don't know. I am going there to get a refund or file a case in court. State law trumps interstate comerse if you travel to Mississippi or hire a lawyer there. I urge you; do not let these people beat you out of your money because you purchased over the Internet with a debit card. Russell apiaries has your money and is counting on the fact that you will do nothing to recover it. Be smart and formulate a plan to get a refund. I will know more after return from Mississippi.


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## MichaBees

I have contacted Rob Hughes and a sub-producer close to me for proper information on my paid for order - I have gotten nothing in return. 

Up to date, I have not received the products I paid for or information about my order -it is six months now. All I have gotten is harsh treatment from the company employees and followers.


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## Kaz

Well spread the word; let's all go to Mississippi on the same day and all file suits in small claims court. Or possible hire a lawyer and split the cost on a percentage basic. We must do something


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## MichaBees

I am 1100 miles away from Mississippi; going there is just cost prohibitive. Hiring a lawyer would be more trouble than worth. I will keep on posting everywhere I can, and make people aware of the bad experience with RA until I get the proper response. 

What a waste!
What a way to destroy a good reputation!


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## Kaz

I am going there. I am not a lawyer but can speak to some while there. I do not know how a lawyer would handle the expense but seems as if a lot of people need legal help.


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## jaybees

You can file a complaint with the Office of the Attorney General of Mississippi.
http://agjimhood.com/index.php/sections/consumer/complaints

Under the Mississippi Consumer Protection Act, the Attorney General is allowed 
to sue only to prevent unfair and deceptive business practices occurring statewide or 
affecting large numbers of people. We encourage consumers to send us information about 
suspected illegal business practices. Often, the more reports we receive, the clearer the 
practice is revealed. Numerous complaints may reveal a pattern of misconduct, allowing 
us to take action.


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## MichaBees

What a waste...


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## Diogenes

Kaz said:


> Well, I think that there is strength in numbers. Plainly stated*,all people who have been charged for something that they did not get should pursue the same outcome" refund with interest". I am personally going to Mississippi to file a claim in small claims court. *I would urge everyone to do the same. I do not know Mississippi state law but if those who can't physically travel there , well maybe there would be a lawyer that would take it up on a percentage basic. I don't know. I am going there to get a refund or file a case in court. State law trumps interstate comerse if you travel to Mississippi or hire a lawyer there. I urge you; do not let these people beat you out of your money because you purchased over the Internet with a debit card. Russell apiaries has your money and is counting on the fact that you will do nothing to recover it. Be smart and formulate a plan to get a refund. I will know more after return from Mississippi.


Kaz, that is a rather inflammatory posting in light of Rob Hughes' side of the story:



Rob Hughes at Russell Apiaries Forum said:


> Kaz your attitude is over the top.* You ordered nucs that you were suppose to pick up and refused to pick them up.* I told you that you could pick them up or wait on the powers that be to decide on your request to cancel the order. You can huff and puff all you want but it's real simple *you purchased a product and it was produced for you but you haven't picked it up. You weren't ripped off* and I am sick of seeing you slander us. You want to take it to court be my guest. You want to get in someone's face, I'm your huckleberry! Mississippi Castle Law is something that you might want to read up on before you start making threats. *I walked you through the process and told you that you could get your product or wait for word on a refund.* I treat threats as tantrums. That stuff won't get you any special treatment.


Do you expect the courts to trust your word without attempting to verify the facts? If you file a complaint in small claims, Russell Apiaries will be notified of your filing and of the assigned court date. If at the hearing, the judge rules in RA's favor strictly according to the RA terms and conditions you might screw yourself out of that refund.

It sounds like RA is planning to issue a refund to you. In my opinion, Russell Apiaries would be justified if they chose to hold your refund until *after* they sold the products you ordered produced for you. Especially, since you _chose_ to not pick those nucs up.


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## Barry

In light of where these threads devolve to, I am enacting new posting rules in CR. Members are free to share their experiences with vendors. Members may not comment on other member's posts. This is now a "no discussion" forum. Vendors may reply to any post that involves them.


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## bluegrass

Sounds like step in the right direction to me.
Thanks Barry.


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## SideYardBees

Great idea Barry. Many of us have feared posting due to all the bashing from others.
Thanks.


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## Jaele

Actually, I'm one of many who consult w/BBB to see if a company is registered and if there are currently or ever have been any complaints. That's how I conduct my business affairs. I work too hard for my $$ to simply hand it out and I have reasonable expectations for businesses. I appreciate the time others take to rate businesses either way (Pos or Neg) b/c it could save me a lot of headache.


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## MichaBees

Months of waiting and I got nothing for my money. 
No emails, no queens, no information; no hope for better customer service.


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## julysun

Thanks Barry.


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## Vance G

I am still waiting too and it will freeze one of these nights and the fall flow is over. What would I do with my uber queens now?


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## DavidP2211

I ordered two queens back in early spring. I have a very detailed e-mail chain with Victoria where I have asked for a refund and been ignored or it was blamed on "new hire" as to why they were not responding back to me. I literally have 11 e-mail requests into them asking for the queens or a refund andhave two responses back from them - so my claim is well covered. Should a mod need the documentation to verify my claim Russell has the customer service skills of a goat and that they appear to have made a decision to steal my money - I will be happy to forward my e-mail trains to them. Where I come from - keeping someone's money without supplying the good or service defines stealing.

Edited to say that I went through my e-mail chains with them and had one response on 6/23/12 saying "We are still a bit behind in shipping but hopefully we can get them out in the next week or so." These queens were to be delivered early June - I was fine with them going out in July as I understand we don't control how many, or when, queens are available. However, no queens and no response until late August.

My next response after numerous e-mails was from Victoria on 8/23/12 where she blames the lack of response on "While we were training the new staff the emails piled up too much for us to try to work with, so we are starting fresh." She also wrote "We have an operation in PA that can send your queens over to you. Let me know and I will transfer the info to that office." I told her I couldn't use the queens and wanted a refund as the queens were supposed to be delivered in early June. Have sent multiple e-mails (with the one today being pretty rude as I am about fed up) without any response since 8/23.

So - in total - I have 13 different e-mails requesting info with them. Dates are 6/1, 6/6, 6/26, 6/26 (a different one), 7/26, 7/30, 8/21, 8/21 (duplicate on the chance the earlier one got "lost") 8/23 with a response from Victoria and a response back to her asking for the refund, 8/24, 8/27, and two on 9/11 with the last one being my rude e-mail.


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## DavidP2211

Quick update: Paypal, American Express, and Visa have a general policy of only allowing disputes for about 60 days after the transaction occurs (e.g., Russell charges you as soon as you pay so that is the transaction - you now have 60 days to claim a refund for not receiving the queens/nucs). Obviously, that policy flat doesn't cover a dispute when some scumball elects to not ship your bees as we typically are scheduled to receive those months after we order them.

Regardless, I called American Express on Monday (which is how my Paypal payments are covered) and explained that I had ordered the queens in February and that this policy just flat doesn't work for a situation like this one. The rep asked how many times I had attempted to contact them requesting the bees/refund, etc. To my surprise, after a few minutes of explaining how the process of ordering bees works, the service rep came back with "you're right - we will make an exception for these queens". BINGO - the rep then credited my account for $118 which they will deduct from a future American Express payment to Russell. Granted, Russell can go back and try to dispute my dispute, but I have no idea how he could win. So bottom line - if you paid your Russell Paypal charge with a credit card - it is well worth bypassing Paypal to dispute the charge directly with the card company. Maybe I am being cynical, but Paypal flat out will not honor disputes greater than 60 days so that may be part of the reason Russell uses them.

Finally, kudos to American Express for having great customer service reps.


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## Saltybee

Well Done.


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## Brandy

Well done is right and thanks for sharing. Finally a potential way to solve the problems.


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## Daniel Y

I also believe it is illegal to charge a credit or debit card before a product is shipped. You might want to look into that as well. I have not seen the law myself, it is just commonly mentioned information on another group I belong to that does lots of buying selling and shipping.

I woudl file a claim with pay pal, Visa etc. anyway and let them be the ones that refuse rather than just assume they will.


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## Brandy

Discover is working on my behalf. Don't know why we didn't go back to our Credit Cards to start with vs. paypal. I was afraid having paid as far back as 6/11 that I would be toast. Not so.. good luck everyone.


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## DavidP2211

Hopefully, many of us that have had our cash stolen by Russell can recover our money via our card carrier. Eventually, if enough of us make claims, the companies will refuse to process payments for Russell. However, I don't know the number of claims required for them to stop. In addition, I can't imagine that Paypal will continue to do business with Russell if enough card companies make claims against them as they hold the payment from Paypal. 

So - all of you that have been screwed and used a card, call your carrier and make a claim regardless of how long ago you placed the order. You may have to ask for a supervisor and lay out why their 60-day policy can't work when ordering queens/nucs, but I know that most of the cards are pretty tolerant of the card holder in the case of obvious scumballism like what is going on with Russell. The worst that happens is the card carrier tells you no. Oh wait - the worst that could happen already has - you have lost your money with no reasonable chance of recovering it. 

Good luck.


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## Barry

Those who have yet to receive a refund from Long Creek Apiaries might try this as well.


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## seal62

I contacted the Miss AG and filed a complaint,,still no word .


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## SideYardBees

I too waited and waited with no reply to multiple emails and letters sent to RA about queens which I ordered last November...that is until I requested a refund. Then I received and email offer to have the queens supplied by a "Sub-Producer" of RA. I accepted that offer only because I didn't expect a refund and I didn't want to wait until next year and go through all of this again. I didn't get the Cordovan's I had ordered and paid for...had to accept an alternative. Certainly wouldn't do business with them again...if they were still in business!


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## DavidP2211

SideYard - that is interesting as that just happened to me as well. Two days ago I posted on the RA forum asking why I couldn't get a refund. Those posts were removed but I very quickly received a PM from a sub-producer asking if I wanted his queens now or Russell queens come spring. I was clear I wanted neither but a refund. I also made several suggestons that would help show that RA was serious about fixing the mess they created. These included: 1) not billing until they ship 2) Posting on both their, and other websites, about how they intend to make those of us that have had their money taken whole. Interestingly, no response was provided to those comments. Silence sometimes says a lot.

I will be very curious whether the "hey, you can get queens now" offer is an honest one or a ploy to try and muddy the credit card dispute. If the offer was honest and not a ploy to throw mud - I intend to post that as well as the sub-producer may be a good guy stuck with a very lousy business situation. Conversely, if it is mud, well the phrase scumball keeps coming to mind. 

Finally, I would like to thank Barry for letting us post on how we are working through getting our money back. I have found that at least one other forum has an "enabler" mentality in that you can only post good experiences. Even very carefully worded posts that lay out how money was taken without getting the bees/refund are immediately deleted (I expected my posts on the RA website to be deleted but this experience happened at another site as well). The ability to honestly express the situtation, and our frustration, on this thread is extremely appreciated.


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## jaybees

Federal Trade Commission.
http://ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre28.shtm


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## Intheswamp

I read through that information but I'm wondering where the "teeth" are that will "encourage" the credit card companies to reclaim the money paid to a vendor and return that money to the customer. Are there penalties, fines, threat of imprisonment, or ? that would compel a vendor to return the money?

Ed


----------



## Brandy

Could be the cc companies believe you should have a product if you paid for it. If the vendor doesn't communicate with the buyer that's when the cc companies step in. No email response, no phone response, no forum response. There seems to be a 15 day window that the vendor has to provide a resolution, product, response. That hasn't happened in a lot of these cases. Let's cross our fingers that we have some positive results.


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## VolunteerK9

Rankin County Sheriffs Office Ph# 601-966-3568. They will take a report over the phone-their recommendation was to also notify the Mississippi State Attorney Generals Office of which I am doing next.


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## DavidP2211

K9 - could you mention to the AGs office that there are multiple parties involved. AG's tend to not get worked up for what they consider smaller amounts but get more interested when you have "numerosity". Also - they will assign your call a case number (or something similar). You will want to post the pertinent information here and any other forums (with the exception of the one that will remain anonomys but acts as an enabler by allowing only positive reviews - anyone that posts over there will know who I am talking about). 

Those of us that have been denied refunds/bees will then need to contact the AG's office with your info/documentation of the claim. The AG's office will start off by collecting as much info/documentation as possible. The process is way slow as they are juggling our claims along with a lot of others. However, I have had several clients receive letter requests for info and that always gets their attention. Once the process gets rolling - it is a steam roller and folks like Russell tend to pony up pretty quick to get out of the process. Also, defending a criminal suit against an AG gets stupidly expensive for the defendants so that tends to force them to pay up as they are paying money to defend on the front-end and then have to refund our money or pay fines/penalties on the back-end. 

In any case, thanks for taking the time to deal with the AG.


----------



## alblancher

I'm only into RA for $ 120.00 for a late spring nuc. Mr. Hughes did contact me recently saying the nuc had been re-hived and suggested I wait till spring for delivery. I do appreciate his pm and will wait for the nuc. Probably better to be patient then get all excited and have to overwinter a nuc.

Hopefully I'll get early delivery of the spring nuc and I'll be a happy beekeeper. As mentioned earlier we all have the opportunity to vote with our feet and I guess we all decide on the true cost and benefit of doing business with a vendor. My opinion might be different if I depended on bees to earn a living but I do this because it is a nice hobby. Good luck to everyone waiting on their orders to be filled maybe after reading all these posts new customers will better understand the potential delays and adjust their schedules accordingly. Isn't that what it really comes down to?


----------



## brushmouth

VolunteerK9 said:


> Rankin County Sheriffs Office Ph# 601-966-3568. They will take a report over the phone-their recommendation was to also notify the Mississippi State Attorney Generals Office of which I am doing next.


That is NOT the Sheriffs phone number, it's Russell Apiaries useless number with the full voice mail that
no-one ever answers. $238.50 was my admission fee for an education to this fellow in Mississippi.

Good Luck all who have been relieved of their hard earned cash.

BM


----------



## VolunteerK9

brushmouth said:


> That is NOT the Sheriffs phone number, it's Russell Apiaries useless number with the full voice mail that
> no-one ever answers.
> BM


Sorry, I had a list of all the numbers I had called that day and typed the wrong one.

Rankin County S.O 601-825-1480.


----------



## brushmouth

VolunteerK9 said:


> Sorry, I had a list of all the numbers I had called that day and typed the wrong one.
> 
> Rankin County S.O 601-825-1480.


Thank You, I will call today and let them at least know who to watch down that way.
Apologize for my shouting, just angry about being taken advantage of.
The rule of law in this country is diminishing rapidly.
Appreciate your help,

BM


----------



## Jaseemtp

I am into RA for $617 paid 11 months ago. I will be calling the Miss AG tomorrow. I did send a few emails on their site and have not recieved a response yet. I tried my best to be patient but this is insane to take some ones money and not provide the product and stop all communication..

I am looking for their physical address so I can send them certified letter and will be looking for an attorney in Mississippi


----------



## jaybees

Russell apiaries
212 fanning landing circle
brandon, ms 39047


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## giant pumpkin peep

Bottom line for me on the year. I got my queens and every single one had to be combined.


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## Brandy

Don't forget or hesitate to go back to your cc company directly. They're trained in fraud, prevention and taking care of their cardholders, you vs. this other outfit.


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## Jaseemtp

Would the credit card company work with a charge that is 11 months old?


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## JRG13

I dunno, you would have to contact your CCC and see what their time frame is.


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## Jaseemtp

Did anyone have success with the Rankin County SO? I called them today and they told me to contact my S.O.


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## Barry

S.O.? Do you mean States Attorney?


----------



## BillyH

Here is the link for the Mississippi States Attorney General. Hope that this will be some help to you.
http://www.ago.state.ms.us/


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## Brandy

Yes to the 11 months old. My first order was 15 months with no queens, no response etc.... I started my disbute on 9/14 so we'll see what happens.... Good luck, but don't give up and let them keep your money. I'm sure they think you will just get disgusted and quit, but don't if possible. Let your cc company know your not happy. They'll fix it, hopefully.


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## seamuswildflower

i did work in construction and did my own collections. a thunderous knock on the door Sunday morning at 5 am always worked!


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## Jaseemtp

Barry
S.O = Sheriffs Office, at least for me


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## Grizbee

Barry, I don't think Long Creek Apiaries took payment in credit cards, most likely because he would have to answer to these credit card companys. Cashed checks are just pieces of scrap paper I guess


----------



## JohnAllen

I found this posted on the Russell web site:



> Holdover/Transfer orders and Cancellations
> 
> Due to the many struggles that we have faced during the 2012 season with the storm damages, the traggic loss of vital members of our crews, a large turn over of office staff, and the discovery of major health issues of our administration, there were significant breaks in our abilities to communicate with our customers. As a result, a small amount orders were not shipped. While the majority of the customers that were effected by this have rescheduled their deliveries to spring of 2013, you are welcome to request that we cancel your order instead if you would prefer. To have your 2012 order shipped in 2013 by the main company, shipped by your Local Russell Apiaries location, or request a cancellation, please send an email to [email protected]


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## Brandy

I saw that yesterday also. All I can say is it's about time!! Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get additional feedback if you do reply to the link. I just went through the cc company. Have a little trust lacking with RA 6 months after the fact!


----------



## Nichols747

I'm a little leery of "canceling" my one-queen order. I'm not sure that "refund" is part of "canceling"? 

I guess I'll cross my fingers for spring 2013!


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## Vance G

If you read, past tense; the disclosure on cancellations at Russells website, it clearly stated that refunds were at their discretion because they had invested money to plan and produce your order. Don't stop any other actions to collect your money because of this.


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## DPLONG

After months of sending emails I finally received a response from Russell Apiaries today. They only owe me 137 bucks but I still want it back. I feel bad for all the problems they have had and wish the company the best but I still want my money back and would like to see them pay everybody back. Here's what the email said:

Thank you for contacting us. Your request has been recorded and will be reviewed and processed as soon as possible.

Russell Apiaries


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## gone2seed

You do realize that "reviewed and processed"is double talk.Wouldn't it have been simpler to say ,"we are sending a refund by return mail"?


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## heus

Not that it matters but lots of grammatical and spelling errors on their home page.


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## VolunteerK9

DPLONG;
Thank you for contacting us. Your request has been recorded and will be reviewed and processed as soon as possible.
Russell Apiaries[/QUOTE said:


> That's the same reply I received today as well. Hopefully their stepping up to the plate to resolve these issues.


----------



## buzzsaw

I also sent an email requesting my order be transferred to 2013 but asked for confirmation and contact of who would be filling my order. I received both and have been in contact with the state supplier. I feel much better knowing I will be dealing with a producer who will be more accessible.


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## DavidP2211

Status Update

I had ordered my queens in February for delivery in June. Numerous e-mails were sent to Russell with only two responses. In addition, I posted a number of requests for refunds on their website – most of which were deleted. I continued to post on their site and they eventually allowed them to stay up. I also established a dispute with American Express asking for a refund back in late August/early September. 

I eventually had a set of e-mails from the PA producer, who seems to be a stand-up guy, asking if I wanted to wait till 2013 for my queens. I didn’t want to wait and continued to ask for a refund. Roy from RA then e-mailed to also ask if I wanted to wait till 2013 or get queens now (I am in PA and have no interest in setting up a split in September or October…). I let him know I just wanted the refund to which he then said one had been made. I expected it to hit my AE card within a few days. Ahhh - It didn’t though. 

Six weeks after Roy told me that a refund had been issued, I received a notice from American Express that RA had not contested my dispute (by not responding to it) and that I would be credited with the full amount of my order. So, five months after I was supposed to get my queens and two months after I made my initial dispute request to American Express, I finally got my money back. 

Apparently, RA has had an amazingly bad string of luck with several worst case issues hitting them over the span of a few months. Those issues are why their service has gotten so crappy. Regardless, they are in business and need to handle their operations like a business. 

The lessons I took away from their errors are that: they needed to let people know ASAP there were huge issues impacting their ability to provide queens/nucs; they needed to tell their customers when/how those issues were going to be resolved; they needed to STOP taking new orders till they got squared away with their issues and all the outstanding orders; and they needed to can Victoria who ranks as perhaps one of the poorest examples of a customer service rep I have ran across. 

Had RA been honest with the issues facing them by telling me up-front why my order hadn’t been shipped: I would said “Oh – not good. Send me the queens next year when you guys get squared away and prayers out.” Instead, I, along with a very large contingent of other beekeepers, will never order directly from them again. What a waste of a good company that spiraled down due to stupid decisions to ignore their customers verses being honest with what was going on.

Finally, I want to thank Barry for allowing an honest discussion of RAs customer service. A dog pile didn't ensue and the thread had the common goal of figuring out how to get our money back. While working through this issue, I also posted a very honest assessemnt on other forums of the challanges we were all having of getting our bees/refund. One of these forums was notable and will forever be on my "never to be visited again" list due to their site owner (aka Chief Bee/King bee or whatever the absurd term he used) for having the fortitude of a worm. That forum will remain unnamed but should be embarrassed by how they facilitated RA into duping new customers to order from RA by allowing numerous positive reviews yet deleting any honest assessments of RA’s service for this year.


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## Daniel Y

David, To be fare to RA your refund was most likely held up due to the dispute you filed with your credit card company. I know this has happened to me in the past. one the CC Co. hold a transaction. Everything is on hold including a refund.


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## MichaBees

I still have not received my refund. I agreed to a refund when they offered one, but nothing after several weeks. I also requested help from one of the satellite operations but got no respond. 
Not so nice to deal with RA


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## DavidP2211

Daniel Y said:


> David, To be fare to RA your refund was most likely held up due to the dispute you filed with your credit card company. I know this has happened to me in the past. one the CC Co. hold a transaction. Everything is on hold including a refund.


Daniel - that actually isn't true. I had one other dispute with a vendor about three months ago. I put the dispute request in with American Express and the next day the vendor realized they had not shipped the item and refunded the money. The dispute was closed two days after it was opened: not six weeks later due to "no response".


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## DavidP2211

This is my last post on Russell... Just took a look at their website and they are now only accepting orders from commercial operations. All small orders will go through their subproducers. Personally, I think this is a good thing. Their genetics will still be available and you now deal with local operations (where you likely know the guy you are buying from). I don't have issues ordering queens from the PA guy (Jason) when I figure out what I want for the spring.

I sincerely hope Russell manages through the issues they have had over the last year. Hope everyone that is still owed a refund manages to work out getting your bees/cash as well.


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## brushmouth

*Dr. Russell*, it has now been one full year since you charged my card.
IMO practice used should be made illegal, since its to late to file a complaint by the time one develops.
I want my money refunded to the same credit card my purchase was made on.
Please follow that up with a personal email, so I am aware that said task has been accomplished.
Thank You,

BM 
(you have my email, I replied several weeks ago and got no reply)
[email protected]


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## Brandy

brushmouth, just go to your own cc company and file the dispute. They will take care of you pronto. Look up the date of your transaction and bingo, taken care of. 

I also went to my cc company as has a few others. No problem, refund taken care of. RA will say the dispute held them up, but again not so. They just hope you go away and give up. 

Good luck, as Nike says, just do it!


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## VolunteerK9

Unfortunately, I paid using a credit union's Visa Debit card and according to them, I have no recourse due to being so much time between paying for the order and the proposed ship date. In the mean time, still waiting, although at this point, not holding my breath. Good luck in their commercial endeavors after all this publicity. I don't understand why a sub producer would even want to be associated with it.


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## bhfury

And they want to you pay to be a sub!!!


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## guyross

They will have to pay me to be a sub.


bhfury said:


> And they want to you pay to be a sub!!!


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## MichaBees

Many weeks after RA offered a refund and me accepting one; I still do not have what they promised, or what I paid for.


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## Brandy

Well, I just needed to update what my cc company was able to do. Unfortunately after 6 weeks of I thought being successful and getting my charges back, they were unable to credit me. The response was that since my charges are over 45 days they are unable to do anything with paypal. In addition RA and paypal said that the products, dead queens and drone layer, were not returned so I couldn't have both, dead queens and a refund. Duh, I didn't think to do that! 
So, good luck, hopefully we've warned enough beekeeps to stay away from this outfit!


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## MichaBees

Many months after RA offered a refund and me accepting one; I still do not have what they promised, or what I paid for.


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## Intheswamp

I just attempted to access the RA website. I received an "Access Requested"(?) notice when I entered my username/email and password. I figured I'd try an alternate username/password that I use sometimes and that brought up a new user registration window. So, they acknowledged me as being a registered user but for some reason don't want me to have access unless they allow it. :scratch: Interesting communication there.

On another RA communication note... I attempted to contact the RA-Alabama sub. The only contact point was via a form on their website. I left the message probably a couple of weeks ago and have yet to receive a response from them...I was asking where they were located. Other subs might be different and more responsive. One thing that I have noticed about the sub's is that they mostly all use the same template for their website structure, you can only contact them through a "form mail" application inside their websites, and little information about the owner of the "sub" or precise location (city/town) is given. Throughout all of the RA drama of the last couple of years I've stayed neutral being as I "don't have a dog in this fight" and all that I know about it is heresay. But, the lack of response from the RA-Alabama sub and the "Access Requested" notice on Russell's website definitely isn't conducive to good customer relations. It's hard to figure out why go to all the trouble of these satellite websites if you're going to ignore prospective customers...it just seems strange. Maybe other sub locations are more approachable and responsive...?????????
:kn:

Ed


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## Brandy

Intheswamp,
Just be forwarned that your comfortable losing any $$$ spent on nucs, Queens and time that you send and spend with any of these outfits. If you don't mind losing the money, losing the nuc's you set up for queens that are DOA, or losing the nuc's set up for replacements that never come, go for it. Then this outfit is the one for you. But if you work hard for the $$, want a person to verify your shipping dates and actually deliver a living viable product, help with any shipping problems, go somewhere else....

P.S. I did/do have a dog in the fight with the main RA and hopefully I can keep someone like myself from trying this outfit again. Good luck...I was kind of like you in trying to stay neutral and went ahead and ordered thinking it wouldn't happen to me. Bingo, just like the others, they take the $$ and after the time is up with paypal, you are out of luck ever getting any resolution. So, if you order, order and pick up while you still have time to set up a dispute with paypal for a resolution. My fault, I ordered in good faith a year in advance. Not good with this outfit!! Then they will later come back and if your queens fail or are DOA if you don't save and send back the DOA queens they say you kept the product and you can't have the product and a refund both. Truly a learning experience that others have also learned along the way with this outfit. Be ready to protect yourself...


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## KevinR

Brandy said:


> Just be forwarned that your comfortable losing any $$$ spent on nucs, Queens and time that you send and spend with any of these outfits. Be ready to protect yourself...



I love how the children are punished for the sins of their fathers.... 

As far as I can tell, none of these micro producers are even taking orders yet. With that said, the lady that I help with her bees with must be one of the "few" that got her bees. Had a queen that failed replaced and the ones she has are doing fine.

I'm all about being cautious with what you buy and who your buying from. But, I don't think you should be bashing the sub producers that are doing nothing more than passing on the genetics from RA. As far as I can tell, they are all independently owned and operated.

*shrugs*


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## camero7

KevinR said:


> As far as I can tell, none of these micro producers are even taking orders yet.


Several are taking orders. some sold bees last summer. I believe that Nebraska, Pennsylvania and New York are all taking orders. there may be more.


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## DPBsbees

Russell's PA ( Jason Varner ) honored my queen order from the original Russell's that they never sent me, and wouldn't reply to my requests for info. The queen he sent me is doing fine. I have ordered two nucs from him for next spring and have no reason to believe that there will be any issues. I have traded several emails with Mr. Varner and he has always been responsive. If you check out his website, you will read a touching story about his grandfather's beekeeping experiences. I believe that it is not fair to hold the new sub-producers responsible for the issues of the original Russell's organization and am looking forward to getting my nucs this spring. It does appear that many of the subs are still in the very beginning of getting established, but that does not appear to be the case of Russell's PA.


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## Intheswamp

I'm just relaying the little that I've experienced in regards to the RA situation. I'm sure there are some good folks at some (if not all) of these "sub" producers. I wish them the best success...for them and the bees. It does cause pause for thought in regards to taking on a business name that does have some bad publicity associated with it. Russell had/has some good genetics and with the dwindling gene pool that we have it would be a shame to lose those. Time will settle things out with RA and the RA-subs...either there will be a customer base for them or there won't be. I would imagine time will also smooth over the rough waves that have been associated with RA. Whatever the case, I hope the genetics aren't lost.

In retrospect, it would have been better for Russell to have started out selling to the small beeks through subs rather than directly...I don't think we would be seeing the anger (anti-RA) or elevated defensiveness (pro-RA) that we are seeing from those people even vaguely involved. 

The "anit" and the "pro" crowd are simply responding in turn to how they have been treated...either "you screwed me, I'm against you" or "you did ok by me, I'm for you". Beekeepers should not be this divided which makes me (getting a little out of neutral area) look at what has caused the division. 

The bottom line to me is that if someone owes someone something, be it money, bees, apology, forgiveness, whatever..., then that "something" should be paid to the person that it's owed to. If that person refuses to pay that debt then they themselves affix the label of crook or thief or simply lowlife scumbag to themselves...it's their choice. 

Ed


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## DPLONG

I'd have to think long and hard about becoming a sub producer for a company that straight up stole so many beekeepers hard earned cash. I've been fighting for a refund for almost a year now and I'm tired of it. I don't give a crap about the quality of any of the subs, they work for the same thief that stole so much money from so many people. I had ordered queens in the past from Russells but those two good experiences are overtaken by this extremely horrible one. In my opinion Dr. Russell should be in prison. I will be headed through Mississippi in early spring and might have to stop by for a visit and see if I can Russell up a refund one way or another.


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## Beregondo

I've also had excellent service and communication from Jason Varner of Russell Apiaries PA...and have been extremely impressed with not only how productive the Sunkist queens I got from him are, but how aggressively they groom against mites.
When I first saw guard bees aggressively grooming returning workers, I thought they were fighting, but soon realized what was going on.
I love this, as my apiary is treatment free.

I ordered Hybrid 410 queens from Kale Luce at Russell Apiaries NY, and also got great queens, service and communication.
These bees (Moonbeam x bees from Alaska/NW Territories) are also very heavy layers, but shutdown when the flows do, and they fly/forage in much cooler weather than other bees I've had.
I put a screen on a Hybrid 410 hive an hour before dawn this fall in preparation to move a hive, and when I returned an hour later, there was a cluster of returning foragers on the entrance screen trying to get in who had already been out foraging in the dark! 

I was very impressed!

I highly recommend both of these gentlemen and their products!

Craig Adams
Elmira, NY

PS I believe they are both running a 10% off Christmas sale


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## mulesii

I sent an email to Jason Varner of Russell Apiaries PA. last week with questions about his queens and he responded within a day. Usually when I email queen producers, as I only need one or two queens, they don't respond. I was very impressed that Jason took the time to answer my questions. I am very likely going to purchase a couple of queens from him this spring.


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## Barry

If members want to start making comments about the sub producers, please start another thread.


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## MichaBees

Many months after RA offered a refund and me accepting one; I still do not have what they promised, or what I paid for. 
Happy new year?


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## Vance G

My experience is exactly the same. No response from Russells.


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## MichaBees

Dishonest people they are; not a good place to shop for queens or anything else.


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## nada

what about russels MD? what is the satellite people are having most problems from?


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## Beregondo

Deleted


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## Saltybee

Local dealers having problems with customers? Not I.


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## TheBuzz

MD is new this year and Rob Greenwell is very quick to reply back to my emails. He's queens won't be ready until May he told me.


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## swarm_trapper

I have still heard no word from Russells on my 2000$ that they took over a year ago. I really wonder why these sub producers would affiliate themselves with such a crooked company? 
Nick


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## MichaBees

As far as I am concerned, I will keep a great distance from any Russell thing, animal, product or transaction. They are dishonest and do not know the meaning of truth or honor.


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## VolunteerK9

swarm_trapper said:


> I have still heard no word from Russells on my 2000$ that they took over a year ago. I really wonder why these sub producers would affiliate themselves with such a crooked company?
> Nick


Yeah, same thing I asked. Theres no way I would have their name associated with my apiary-considering this topic has reached 20 pages. Im still waiting on my 12/2011 refund as well..May be paying their customers back was a part of their 2013 resolutions.


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## Barry

You might want to check with the Rankin County Court. Appears he has had to face a judge on a couple business issues.


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## VolunteerK9

Barry said:


> You might want to check with the Rankin County Court. Appears he has had to face a judge on a couple business issues.


Thanks for the info. I will call them tomorrow.


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## SPRUCE BEE

VolunteerK9 said:


> Thanks for the info. I will call them tomorrow.


So what did you find out?


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## VolunteerK9

Sorry, I dropped the ball. Been an interesting several days at work. I will call though.


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## Intheswamp

I'm not sure if this has been posted or not. The email address is one that I haven't seen before...it was found on the RA welcome page in an update notice about "Holdover/Transfer orders and Cancellations"...

[email protected]

Hopefully this might help someone.
Ed


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## RiodeLobo

Intheswamp said:


> I'm not sure if this has been posted or not. The email address is one that I haven't seen before...it was found on the RA welcome page in an update notice about "Holdover/Transfer orders and Cancellations"...
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Hopefully this might help someone.
> Ed


I used it a while back, and got a response within a week. We will see if the queens ship out when they are supposed to this spring. 2011 season i was very pleased with the service, 2012 was a fiasco.


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## millerwb

I used in on Sunday. Still awaiting a response.


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## millerwb

millerwb said:


> I used in on Sunday. Still awaiting a response.


Email this evening. Said replacements will ship 3rd week of April.... Now I wait and see if they come.


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## JohnAllen

millerwb said:


> I used in on Sunday. Still awaiting a response.


I used it last October and requested a cancellation. Still no refund so I just wrote again and said that bees this year is my second choice if they insist on keeping my money.


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## MichaBees

I used it the moment the offered it, I requested my money back but, I still do not have it or any sign I ever will. 
I just wonder, if Russell collected last year, the money for all the work and refunds he will be honoring this year; what is he going to use for cash flow? Is he coming up with a new way to bring money into his pocket? 
I hope he does not change his name to Robert Bernard Madoff Russell in order to honor his mentor and role model for business.


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## Intheswamp

Maybe they figured out how to sell queens to those folks that ship us the blue-painted green drums of honey from China....might help the trade (im)balance some, too, and they could become national heroes. inch:


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## Brandy

Duh, my thought's are that he'll use anyone's orders and payment this year that hasn't read these reviews for his cash flow. No doubt there will be other weather related issues this spring and we'll all see the cycle cycle over again. He's found a great way to use pay-pal for payment. You can't dispute the charges after so many days and he keeps the money and doesn't answer the phone. Don't order unless you can pick them up, or why even bother with this outfit?? Am I still disgusted, yes!


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## the doc

Originally Posted by millerwb 
Email this evening. Said replacements will ship 3rd week of April.... Now I wait and see if they come.


hey that is great to hear I just emailed again the other day.


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## theriverhawk

I'll just "re-share" my experience from last year and say nothing else.

Ordered queens. Was told a ship date. Did not come that date after readying splits. After numerous emails and a couple of splits having laying workers( did all I could do to prevent), queens showed up over a month later. 1 queen dead on arrival. All other queens dead one week after release. Once I posted my experience, RA "supporters" belittle me saying I don't know how to release queens properly. For the record, this was the first time in many years that I've had a queen rejected. It's one thing to have A SINGLE queen rejected. It's another to have EVERY queen from a single producer rejected. Was promised at least a replacement queen for the DOA. Never saw her. While I wasn't out the sometimes thousands of $$ that others have been, every dime I make and paid was valuable. 
Just tell folks to avoid the RA outfit, website, or anything they do....


----------



## Joel

Maybe the posters here who lost money and have no other recourse could do a thread with poll to find out how many people here lost money, how much and then determine if there are enough to look at hiring a lawyer to recoup the losses for the group if the amount is enough and if there are assests. Then through PMing a central "elected" individual they could communicate further and share information. The Power of Beesource as it was. At the very least a letter from a lawyer - what does that cost - $50 - $100 - might get your issues to the top of the pile in a hurry. Did anyone mail a check? Doesn't that qualify for postal fraud? Intended fraud or not this obviously is affecting a large number of people. Just some thoughts.


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## alblancher

I know there are a lot of disappointed people, I'm one of them. I'm only waiting on a nuc so my exposure is a bit less then some of the others. I have been told that I will receive my nuc this spring. I think the best thing for me to do is give them the chance.


----------



## the doc

Brandy said:


> Duh, my thought's are that he'll use anyone's orders and payment this year that hasn't read these reviews for his cash flow. No doubt there will be other weather related issues this spring and we'll all see the cycle cycle over again.


i quess anything is possible but since he is not taking orders anymore then this is very unlikely. I am going to give them a chance to make things up this spring like al said


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## Intheswamp

the doc, I believe the Russell website *IS* still taking orders. I went there a few days ago and managed to get all the way through to a paypal screen where all I had to do would have been "click" to send them payment. :scratch: I would say that that is "taking orders". As I recall, though, they have removed production queens and are only listing breeder queens in the $100^ range...so a minimum invoice would be $100. inch: The best that I can tell the transaction would have completed. :s

There are two possibilities with Robert Russell. Either he is a crook or he isn't a crook...simple black and white. If he isn't a crook then one of the better courses of action would be to ease up on demands and allow him to work his way out of the hole that he has found himself in (whether from his doings or others' doings). Basically, as some of you have mentioned, give him a chance to work it out. On the other hand, if he is indeed a crook with no intention of reimbursing or making right the debts that he owes then hesitating on seeking legal remedies is hurting your chances of recouping your money. These are decisions and choices that each of you will make, one way or the other.

I wish Robert Russell no ill will, instead I wish him good fortune and an honest conscience so that he can and will settle his accounts with the people to which he is apparently indebted.

Ed


----------



## the doc

ah ok my bad thanks for the correction Ed.


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## Intheswamp

No problem, doc, just thought I'd pass on what I saw. I looked while I was posting my post and saw that they still have those breeder queens listed. There were a few things listed (nucs maybe) that linked off to some of the sub-producers, though.

Best wishes,
Ed


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## mudlake

My thoughts are I will try RA again right after Betterbee. Buy local. Tony


----------



## alblancher

Rob Hughes promptly replied to my pm placed on the Russel site. He said that the nucs promised for this Spring should be ready the first week of April. He indicated that with the weather we are having and for the single nuc owed me I may be able to pick it up early. So far so good, I appreciated the update and look forward to getting my bees.

Al


----------



## MichaBees

Maybe you could utilize your positive influence on those guys and ask them to make good the rest of the orders that are still not fulfilled - like mine.


alblancher said:


> Rob Hughes promptly replied to my pm placed on the Russel site. He said that the nucs promised for this Spring should be ready the first week of April. He indicated that with the weather we are having and for the single nuc owed me I may be able to pick it up early. So far so good, I appreciated the update and look forward to getting my bees.
> 
> Al


----------



## alblancher

I am not interested in defending anyone in this arguement but I see *myself* as having two options. The first option is to be civil and give them the opportunity to fill my order from last year. The second option is to be angry and quit trying to work with them. The first option works sometimes, the second option never seems to work, for me at least.

We are having a tremendous spring down here for bees and if our problems can be resolved the next couple of months is probably when it will happen.


----------



## whalers

I'm just getting up to speed on this topic. I have two Moonbeam queens on order with Russell Nebraska - so what the bottom line, am I going to get my queens or not?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

whalers said:


> I have two Moonbeam queens on order with Russell Nebraska - so what the bottom line, am I going to get my queens or not?


Well, clearly you should contact the Russell Nebraska sub-producer. If you don't already have that contact info, from this thread: 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278390-Robert-Russell-is-a-fraud&p=899724
in post #201, you should email russellapi[email protected] to get your situation resolved.


----------



## bluegrass

whalers said:


> I'm just getting up to speed on this topic. I have two Moonbeam queens on order with Russell Nebraska - so what the bottom line, am I going to get my queens or not?


You may get queens, but are they "moonbeams" or just some random queen with a name made up by a crook?


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## Saltybee

The Russel State sites are being very careful to not overextend themselves from what I have seen. You should be all set.


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## bnm1000

I am having a hard time with this thread after reading the other thread titled something like "Robert Russell is a crook". Aren't these two threads about the same person/company? Seems like on the other thread it was determined that Robert Russell and Robert Hughes was the same person....Plus some legal issues as well..


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## whalers

The sub-producer for Russell-Nebraska is Matthew. I have been swapping emails with him. Let me just say, he has likely been hurt by all this far greater than any of us and I have found him to be an upstanding individual - at least the best you can tell through email. Matthew is not the "crook" referred to in the Robert Russell thread and I hope the people reading this board will get behind Matthew, support him and help him get back on his feet.


----------



## bluegrass

bnm1000 said:


> I am having a hard time with this thread after reading the other thread titled something like "Robert Russell is a crook". Aren't these two threads about the same person/company? Seems like on the other thread it was determined that Robert Russell and Robert Hughes was the same person....Plus some legal issues as well..


Russell Apiaries is run/owned by Robert Lee Russell. (the alleged crook)

He has many sub-producers who operate under his name, but are not under his control. Basically Robert franchised out his father's reputation. The sub-producers probably got burned the most. So you can be dealing with Russell Apiaries NY and not actually be dealing with Russell Apiaries (Robert Lee Russell/Hughes) 

The biggest issue the sub-producers have now is that they don't know what they are selling. Robert Russell likely fabricated the strains he claimed he developed, just like he fabricated the Hughes guy.


----------



## guyross

I was going to be a back door operator for the family. No one has mentioned us. I have breeders I think lol.


----------



## NY_BLUES

I don't believe any of the sub producers are selling any of the lines of RA. Most have refunded all orders and have disassociated with him, including myself.


----------



## bluegrass

The BBB had him pegged:
http://www.bbb.org/mississippi/Business-Reviews/beekeepers/russell-apiaries-in-brandon-ms-235821158


----------



## RZRBCK BEE

Their website sure has changed and the forums shut down. I personally was satisfied with the few queens I received a couple of years ago and really didn't have any problems, but my belief is, when there is this much smoke, there is bound to be fire somewhere. Hope everything works out for everybody. Good luck


----------



## Intheswamp

Intheswamp said:


> <snip>
> 
> On another RA communication note... I attempted to contact the RA-Alabama sub. The only contact point was via a form on their website. I left the message probably a couple of weeks ago and have yet to receive a response from them...I was asking where they were located. <snip>
> Ed


I need to post that the above statement that I made is wrong. Greg/Sonny *did* respond in a timely manner. I was at fault for having used a spam-collection email address for the reply to go to. After all of the recent drama regarding Robert Russell and Russell Apiaries I sincerely do not wish to falsely state anything associated with this situation. My apologies to all concerned. Ed


----------



## Greg Lowe

sonnypemberton was just posting info from the AL site. He is not affiliated with Russell Apiaries Alabama, LLC.

Apology accepted.

Greg


----------



## SideYardBees

In reference to post #316 on this thread:


SideYardBees said:


> Great idea Barry. Many of us have feared posting due to all the bashing from others.
> Thanks.


Diogenes, I see that you cross posted this to the Russell Apiaries forum and picture sites last fall with the comment that I was a "BS Sock Puppet."
Where are you now? Who are you now?


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## camero7

Also wonder what happened to Ted K, that commercial beekeeper who was working with RR. He certainly disappeared. Was he another alias of RR?


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## SideYardBees

camero7 said:


> Also wonder what happened to Ted K, that commercial beekeeper who was working with RR. He certainly disappeared. Was he another alias of RR?


Was he the guy that was wanting true feral bees for developing survivor strain genetics. Seems like he was the one claiming to have taken swarms off of mountains and brought swarms out of the wilderness by kayak. Wasn't he asking RA members to call him with anything they had that showed remarkable survivor traits for his project?


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## camero7

No he was the guy from Alabama who claimed to have sent his crew down to help with the bees when the "tornado" struck. He also advertised nucs on this site if i remember correctly. He also had a thread about not letting bees on comb into AL and wanting to change the law. there are so many strange people involved in this it's very difficult to sort them out.


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## NDnewbeek

SideYardBees said:


> In reference to post #316 on this thread:
> 
> Diogenes, I see that you cross posted this to the Russell Apiaries forum and picture sites last fall with the comment that I was a "BS Sock Puppet."
> Where are you now? Who are you now?


Right - where is he. Last fall he had some pretty snarky and condescending comments for me too, based on some of the questions I was asking.

His profile indicates that he joined last July and hasn't been active since the fall: http://www.beesource.com/forums/member.php?86972-Diogenes

Search his name and you come to the thread he started - interesting re-read in light of what has happened.

Mike


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## jim lyon

Ted stopped posting long before this broke. I hope he is well. Ted is opinionated but quite legit in my mind. I know enough about him to be quite certain he wasn't involved in any way.


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## Barry

From the Russel forum:


Ted Kretschmann
Member
Posts: 9 
I will pass on the sub producer status. I particularly do not like dealing with hobbyist beekeepers-period. I prefer to produce and sell 100 nucs at a time to someone with check or money in hand than the drabble rabble headaches that I have had with hobbyist beekeepers in the past. It is a good idea that Dr., Russell has thought of but the sub producer must be ready to handle the aggrevation that hobbyist can cause. TK

June 13, 2012 at 10:38 PM


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## SideYardBees

Barry said:


> From the Russel forum:
> 
> 
> Ted Kretschmann
> Member
> Posts: 9
> I will pass on the sub producer status. I particularly do not like dealing with hobbyist beekeepers-period. I prefer to produce and sell 100 nucs at a time to someone with check or money in hand than the drabble rabble headaches that I have had with hobbyist beekeepers in the past. It is a good idea that Dr., Russell has thought of but the sub producer must be ready to handle the aggrevation that hobbyist can cause. TK
> 
> June 13, 2012 at 10:38 PM


Thanks Barry. I do remember Ted now. Given today's status with RA, Ted Kretschmann was a profit with the widom of Solomon.


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## Intheswamp

I'm not sure what's going on with Ted Kretschmann. He is basically the only remaining commercial operator in Alabama, though the Normans I understand are back in business in north Crenshaw County. Ted was not at this year's Association meeting in Montgomery, at least I missed him if he was there. Looks like he hasn't posted since July 2012. He started beekeeping when he was 9 years old and worked up from a single hive to several thousand. He was president of the Alabama Beekeepers Association back in the early 90's(?). He certainly appears legit in what he has done and who he is. I'm not sure about his relationship with Russell though it seemed they did have some inside business "doings" at one time or another by some conversation in the forum. As for getting into something crooked with Russell....I don't think Ted would risk his reputation on a crackhead sissy scheme like RRussell put together. I just hope there is nothing wrong with his health or whatever that has stopped him from posting and going to the meetings.

...and you're right, Jim...I don't know Ted that well, but I know that he will speak his opinion on things. 

Ed


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## camero7

Just got a check from RA


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## Nichols747

Did you folks who have received refunds contacted RA recently? I had an email exchange with "Victoria" a month of so ago, when she offered to transfer my order to the WA Affiliate, but I haven't heard back, and the affiliate has since taken down his RA site content.

It's only one queen, but a refund would buy another queen!

Andrew


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## Oldtimer

camero7 said:


> Just got a check from RA


Well thanks for being brave enough to share that, on such a thread as this.

My own suspicion, is that RA would like to put things right, but has got in over his head. Along the way, he has made some bad choices about pretending to be someone else etc, perhaps his way of dealing with an issue that he just couldn't deal with. (Course I don't know that for sure, but personally feel it is possible).

I say this because I have been a full time queen breeder, and it can be a hard game. As the RA meltdown was beginning, RR was still chatting and put up various reasons / excuses, and many of them rang quite true, to me, ie, they were pretty plausible, from my perspective.

Not to detract from whatever financial pain others are feeling. But my gut is that RA never intended it to turn out this way.

Not wanting to make any enemies by having said that either. But in a thread such as this, a group mentality can take over. I'm in no way saying that wrong has not been done.


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## Vance G

Don't know where I saw it but "The water in the bucket is what's in the well". Not as artfully put as I heard it but, you don't accidentally tell the pack of lies that were told. You fess up and be a man. Or woman. I wonder who he conned into floating the money to kite all these checks. I forgive him for my missing every out of town family activity I wanted to attend because I was waiting for illusionary moonbeam queens that just might show up. But I wouldn't consider doing business with him again.

JUST GOT IT~! Going to go see if it floats. It may be for a few more dollars than I remember. I have to check and correct if neccessary. Just hope his mothers home is not payrolling the deal.


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## VolunteerK9

camero7 said:


> Just got a check from RA


I received mine in the mail today too.


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## Specialkayme

My check was certified. It can't bounce.


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## Lburou

Specialkayme said:


> My check was certified. It can't bounce.


Are your sure? Certified checks can be counterfeited. I hope all goes well with these checks.


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## Specialkayme

Lburou said:


> Certified checks can be counterfeited.


If he's talented enough to counterfeit a certified check, including a watermark, a micro-pring signature line, and imprinted random color fibers, he should have gone into the "refund business" long ago.


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## David LaFerney

Why continue to demonize the man even as an attempt is being made to make amends? "Forgive us our treaspasses as we forgive..... " Where is that from?


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## Vance G

He had to go to jail before he found the motivation to make us whole. Forgiveness he has, we are not going to stone him.


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## alblancher

I also received a check yesterday and deposited it last night. If there are no more surprises I am sure everyone will take a deep breath and allow RA to begin the rebuilding process, if they wish to remain in the bee selling business. 

Has there been any resolution of the lost hives and bad queen issues? Taking money and not delivering a product is one thing, providing customer service and accepting responsibility for property left in your care is another. 

Are the checks the first steps in rebuilding RA or the first steps in avoiding further legal trouble? I guess what happens next will give us a clue.


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## Intheswamp

David LaFerney said:


> Why continue to demonize the man even as an attempt is being made to make amends? "Forgive us our treaspasses as we forgive..... " Where is that from?


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## StevenG

Intheswamp said:


> I'm not sure what's going on with Ted Kretschmann. He is basically the only remaining commercial operator in Alabama, though the Normans I understand are back in business in north Crenshaw County. Ted was not at this year's Association meeting in Montgomery, at least I missed him if he was there. Looks like he hasn't posted since July 2012. He started beekeeping when he was 9 years old and worked up from a single hive to several thousand. He was president of the Alabama Beekeepers Association back in the early 90's(?). He certainly appears legit in what he has done and who he is. I'm not sure about his relationship with Russell though it seemed they did have some inside business "doings" at one time or another by some conversation in the forum. As for getting into something crooked with Russell....I don't think Ted would risk his reputation on a crackhead sissy scheme like RRussell put together. I just hope there is nothing wrong with his health or whatever that has stopped him from posting and going to the meetings.
> 
> ...and you're right, Jim...I don't know Ted that well, but I know that he will speak his opinion on things.
> 
> Ed


I have a wager with Ted, so I emailed him to see how he was and received a reply: "You can relay this message to the good friends at beesource-that I am well and still kicking. You had best put a lobster with that steak....TED" There was more to it... he was bit by a brown recluse spider last July (2012) which required some surgery this past fall, so that slowed him down considerably. Also, he was victimized by the Russell situation as well. 
Regards,
Steven


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## Intheswamp

Bad news on the brown recluse, I'm glad to see he's still kicking, though. I can see Ted wanting lobster with his steak. 

Ed


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## Barry

Ted sent me this yesterday:

Barry, I am alive and well but busy with bees. The Alabama bee company is in NO way affiliated with Russell apiaries..I shook about 300 pounds of bees for the Russells back in 2011 in trade for queens because of supposed disasters that kept occuring over there in Missippippi. It took a year and half to get my queens and the ones I got in 2012 were duds. So right then and there in 2011, I smelled skunk. Thus I did not get involved with any other business dealings with the Russells. I shook the bees because as a commercial beekeeper I knew his father. All of us commercials know each other. But to this day I do not know if Robert Hughes, who came to my place of Business with his sidekick Phillip, was Robert Russell. Nor do I know if Robert Hughes is J. Russells illegitimate son by the other woman. I do know that Mr. Russell senior when he was alive ran a good business. He made a living off of 1200 hives of bees and produced around 150 drums of honey a year. Not the thousands of hives that was claimed on Beesource. I do know that the Russells were involved with development of the VSH bees. All the commercials at that time were-Normans, Rossman, Myself, Harrell and sons just to name a few. It was a matter of survival in those days. The damage that has been done to the industy by Russell with his fradulence will take a long time to repair. The sale of bees, nucs and queens is done on a trust basis. That sacred trust has been broken.... Barry, you may post this if you want to. And my reponse to Swamp boy as to why I do not go to Alabama meetings anymore-call me I am in the phonebook..TED Kretschmann- A member of Sioux Honey ass. Sweetening a golden tommorrow


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## swarm_trapper

I also received me check for the full amount yesterday. 
Nick


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## johng

I'm glad this appears to be working out for everyone. It could of been worse there are a lot of Long Creek customers still waiting on checks. I wonder what the plans are for RR. At this point you don't know what to believe about the company but, I did enjoy reading his post.


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## AstroBee

Please let me know what you guys did to get issued a refund check. I'm not owed money, but an older beekeeper I know is and he has very little computer experience.


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## camero7

I didn't do anything other than request my queen order, which had been unfilled, but filled this spring. The email offering a refund came unsolicited. He might try this email [email protected].


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## Nichols747

Ill second Astrobee's request - I've sent emails to the "[email protected]" Address with no response.


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## Nichols747

Thanks Cam, email sent, fingers crossed!


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## DPLONG

I'm still waiting.


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## Nichols747

Shortly after emailing them, they replied to indicate my request is "under review".


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## Nichols747

Just got an email confirming the debt owed me and requesting a mailing address. Optimistic!


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## JohnAllen

I got the same email, keeping my fingers crossed!


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## DPLONG

Did anybody else see this on their website?

"Our legal representatives are working to stop the false allegations that have been spread around. These pages will be activated again as soon as that has been completed. Thank you for your patience and support."

I'm sure they are all false. I haven't heard of them doing anything wrong.
I'm still waiting for my $130.50 but I must be making that up. I have a receipt if anybody wants to see it. :waiting:


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## alblancher

Did you send your refund request to the link they had on the site? I believe they had that or similar wording previously but since I got the money they owed me I haven't been keeping up with them.


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## DPLONG

I've been sending requests since they put that link up on their site. I even sent another email yesterday saying I would either take what I originally ordered or a refund. It makes no difference to me. I'm glad to see that Russell is making it right with some of you but I've yet to even receive an email back. I hate to see trouble with anybody in the bee business but I work hard for my money.


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## Vance G

I am still in shock that I got my money if not the season back. He may have run out of money or decided the heat is off by now. Search back thru these complaint threads. I believe there are addresses or places to contact authorities. The man found the motivation to pay after a visit to to jail. Maybe the law needs to help you.


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## Brandy

Yeah, I sent an email also as a reminder, kind of like checking in, and big surprise?? No answer. Must have gotten a few taken care of and the pressure is off. I did file the complaint with the Gov't link for fraud, will send another email in another week or so. Would just be tooo good to be true that everyone get's their orders made right.


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## blainenay

The expected has happened. Today, I received court notice that Russell Apiaries is in bankruptcy court. Regardless of what his supporters on this forum seem to believe, one cannot run a business the way Russell Apiaries has been run and treat customers the way Russell Apiaries has and expect to stay ahead of bills and orders.

Beekeepers, in general, are among the finest people on Earth. This episode has shown that there are exceptions. I have long-since given up on getting my refund or queens, but Russell Apiaries and his supporters at least owe the rest of us a deep and sincere apology. I'll not hold my breath.


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## Intheswamp

Interesting. I'm no lawyer, but... In the case of refunds made within 90(?) days prior to the bankruptcy filing those refunds may be seen as "preferential payments" and the recipients could be ordered to return that money to the "trustee" for subsequent disbursement to his creditors...secured creditors getting theirs first and everyone else getting what is left over...nothing. If I got a refund I certainly would not mention it...and hope that Russell doesn't.

Ed


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## the doc

had you requested a refund?


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## Intheswamp

If the message above was directed towards me the answer would is "no".


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## DPLONG

I hate Robert Russell Apiaries. I have sent at least 60 emails with no response. I have no patience for a dirty thief and have given up all hope of ever getting my money back.


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## buzzsaw

I got the same bankruptcy notice from them in today's mail. I do not believe there was ever an intent to make things right. I kept fairly quiet during this whole circus - just hoping and believing in the good of farmers. But thinking back I was taken to the cleaners by an old horse trade before I started shaving. Should have learned my lesson then :scratch: Once a horse thief always a horse thief.


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## seal62

Got a bankrupt notice today..can't say im shocked.


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## DPLONG

I got the bankrupt notice on Saturday. The bad thing is, as with a lot of companies that declare bankruptcy, he'll be back stealing beekeepers money in no time at all. I like how they state on the website that many of the operators pulled out of the state operator program due to false allegations on another website which caused the demise of the company. Do those "false" allegations have anything to do with stealing money?

I took the time to rewrite their notice on the russell site for them to better reflect what happened.

_Sadly, after stealing beekeepers hard earned money and after restructuring the company in order to trick some hard working beekeepers into the state operator program, and investing so much of their hard earned money into that program, on top of major health issues, we were forced to close and enter bankruptcy upon the exiting of many of the operators due to some very true and real allegations made on another website. All creditors have been listed in the bankruptcy and you should receive a copy of this in the mail and forget about ever getting your money back. We pretended to take a large risk with your money in the hopes that we could benefit the industry in great ways by creating a future of specifically localized acclimated genetics, and with the fall of that program and failing health, we have lost too much to be able to survive the damages, even though we spent every penny of your money. (insert evil laugh)

There are still several excellent producers with our stocks, and we will continue to refer incoming requests to them but hope nobody will bother us. With the closing of the company, all production, retail, and wholesale activities were halted, which means stop bugging us, you are not getting your money! This website will instead be used as an educational tool for Robert Russell to personally reach the many supporters that seek his advice. These writings will of course include, a full report on how to steal money and get away with it, along with a multitude of beekeeping and gardening topics, such as management techniques, selection methods, equipment construction, pest and disease control, and evolutionary theory, as well as an interesting and very personal look at the connections between our diets and the fight against cancer._


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## kwest

Robert Russell is a slime bag if you ask me. takes my money and doesn't send bees or refund and then declares bankrupcy. he should be behind bars


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## the doc

I to received a bankruptcy notice. The filing states that "there does not appear to be any property available to the trustee to pay creditors." Well that was a surprise... lol. He didn't say that on the website. I am sorry to all members as I had presented my experience (which was not as bad as others, such as free replacements) as apparently it was atypical. He has taken from so many, even apparently ripped off Ted Kretshmann (there is another post from Ted on this). As PT Barnum said, "there is a sucker born every minute"

me = sucker

Interesting that he still writes about himself in the third person. Perhaps "Rob Hughes" wrote his website message... lol


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## DPLONG

I just saw through my email that somebody replied with the name "the doc" and I got excited for a minute. Thought maybe Robert Russell himself came here to offer us an apology. Sorry for assuming doc, I'm confident you are nothing like him.


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## millerwb

Received my bankruptcy notice today as well. I guess I won't be getting a refund or replacement queens now. :ws:


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## the doc

LOL DPLONG! Sorry to get your hopes up. I dont think we'll ever hear anything from him again. I agree with millerwb:ws:


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## MTINAZ

What really makes me made is the "false allegations". There was nothing false in what I posted. He was pretending to be Rob Hughes when meeting people in person an "Doc" Robert Russell on line. I looked the man in the face and shook his hand while he was lying. I cant believe he is still trying to act like the victim.


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## green2btree

Got notice also. Glad I was into it for only 2 queens. Mind you, they were to be for my 14 year old son to start two hives of his own for his birthday last year... Russell is just scum.

JC


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## Intheswamp

DPLONG said:


> <snip>
> 
> I took the time to rewrite their notice on the russell site for them to better reflect what happened.
> <snip>


What is ironic is that in today's crazy world of litigation there is a far-fetched possibility "Doc" could hire a greasy lawyer, sue folks for slandering him and *causing* his business irreparable harm that lead to it's failure and suddenly victims find themselves as the defendants. I'd say the chances are just about nil that he would pursue that and that the chance of "Doc" winning if he did such a thing would be even less...but, stranger things have happened...especially in our justice/legal system filled with shade-tree lawyers.

Ed


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## thenance007

Has anyone else noticed that the debtors are Robert Lee Russell and Jacqueline Nicole Russell, not Russell Apiaries. My PayPal payment was sent to "Russell Apiaries". Russell Apiaries is not named in the "Names used by the debtor(s) in the last 8 years, including married, maiden, trade, and address". Don't know if this matters, but I wonder if Russell Apiaries has assets and is being excluded from the bankruptcy for that reason? I only purchased 2 queens, so not a big deal for me, but maybe for some of you who had bigger losses?


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## Rusty Hills Farm

Might be worth responding to the notice to point out that you did business with Russell Apiaries, not Robert Lee Russell, just to see the reaction. No one should be allowed to duck their debts if they do have the assets to pay their creditors. If Russell Apiaries has assets, then Russell Apiaries owes a lot of beekeepers, too! The courts should not allow RR to shield his assets from his creditors by hiding them as belonging to the company while stating that the debts belong to him personally. But how will the court know this is what's happening unless people tell them?

JMO

Rusty


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## Specialkayme

thenance007 said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the debtors are Robert Lee Russell and Jacqueline Nicole Russell, not Russell Apiaries.


Russell Apiaries is a d/b/a. He listed it as a business he runs in the Statement of Financial Affairs, filed in conjunction with his Petition and Schedules. Since Russell Apiaries was not a registered name, it isn't a separate legal entity. It's debts are the debts of Robert Russell, not someone else. The assets of Russell Apiaries are the assets of Robert Russell, not someone else.


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## Rusty Hills Farm

Good to know. Thanks.

I really hate it when people get stiffed! It's one thing to honestly fail to run a business successfully but a whole 'nuther can of worms entirely when someone seems to deliberately set out to cheat people. 

Sadly, a lot of people lost a lot of money because they made the mistake of trusting this guy.

JMO

Rusty


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## David LaFerney

I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but I'm pretty sure that the usual goal that people have when creating business entities such as corporations is to use the business as a liability shield to protect personal assets not normally the other way around. Unless it's a really twisted scam I've never heard of.


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## Oldtimer

Correct. As RR didn't do this, the business is not shielding him & he will personally lose everything.

Which tells me that the original intention was not to defraud, if it was, he would have limited liability to the business.


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## Specialkayme

Oldtimer said:


> As RR didn't do this, the business is not shielding him & he will personally lose everything.


Not exactly correct. He still has his statutory exemptions. Based on his schedules, he won't lose anything.


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## David LaFerney

By not anything you mean his primary home, vehicle, retirement account, clothes on his back... Right? I thought that in bankruptcy you do stand to lose everything except the basics - or is it only what you are in debt for specifically? You actually are a law student aren't you?


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## Rusty Hills Farm

Oldtimer said:


> Which tells me that the original intention was not to defraud, if it was, he would have limited liability to the business.


No, what that tells me is that he was as inept at running a crooked business as he was at raising bees. It takes as much talent to be a successful crook as it does to be a successful businessman.

He hurt so many people with this mess of his!

JMO

Rusty


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## Oldtimer

OK well he may keep the clothes on his back etc, but what I really meant was if the intention of setting up a business is to stiff someone and do it legally, the normal procedure is to insulate yourself from the business, then milk the company for everything in it via wages, fees, or whatever, then when the company is bled dry & fails bankrupt it, but keep what you have taken from it.

RR is being bankrupted personally, so obviously didn't do this, he has not protected himself. If the intention had been to defraud, limiting personal liability would have been a basic step. 

My opinion, he got in over his head, couldn't handle it, business falling apart, so then went on to do some crazy things to try to cover up / keep things going. 

Having followed this that's how it looks to me. But it's only my opinion, may be wrong.


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## beemandan

Oldtimer said:


> if the intention of setting up a business is to stiff someone and do it legally, the normal procedure is to insulate yourself from the business,


OT...I'm inclined to agree with those who suggest that he was simply an incompetent thief. Had he had enough sense to insulate himself from the business....he might also have had enough sense to make the business work.
How hard would it be? He had it handed to him on a silver platter....an already functioning business with a good reputation. An honest person....with an ounce of brains would have been able to keep that afloat...


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## Oldtimer

OK well you guys may well be correct. I've never met RR, so really don't know. The opinion I expressed is just how it looks to me, but EOD, I don't know.


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## beemandan

I'll tell you what tainted RR early on, in my book. He allowed....and at some level encouraged the perception that he had a PhD. Waaaayyy back...I asked him in a post if he was actually a PhD...and rather than 'fess up', he ignored the question. He was deceptive right from the start.


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## SippyBees

Oldtimer is mostly correct.... "ounce of brains" or lack therof... is also a contributing factor.... given on a silver platter.... not really.. only his father's reputation, as there wasn't SO MUCH equipment or bees to just walk in to an established business at that time.
If nothing else.... he has probably become the most famous/ talked about beekeeper in this whole country... 
At least everyone knows the truth now


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## Intheswamp

Specialkayme said:


> Not exactly correct. He still has his statutory exemptions. Based on his schedules, he won't lose anything.


We had a farmer/trucker father/son to bankrupt on us back in the 80's when money was worth something (at least more than it is today). The man professed to be a good friend of my father's and my father called himself helping him by extending credit to him and his son. The father and son lived BIG while we lived within our means. They filed bankruptcy and hit us for enough that it hurt us. They lost little if any real property (city property, farmland, equipment, etc.,)...we received nothing out of what proceeds did come out of the settlement because we took hind teat to the secured creditors (read BANKS). It somewhat surprised me that several years later the father and his wife did not come to my mother and father's 50th anniversary party (even though my father held no grudge and they had invitations...they all went back to early marriage days). Later my father bumped in to him and inquired about their absence at the celebration. The response he got was that the man's wife had wanted to go shopping so that's what they did. When my father told me this the only thing he added was "It must be sad not to have any friends"...my father was a much better man than I. I would imagine, that even though most of Russell's stiffed customers will never see any of their money again that Russell has been and will see the repercussions of his actions now and for years to come....it can be a lonely world out there.

Ed


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## Specialkayme

David LaFerney said:


> By not anything you mean his primary home, vehicle, retirement account, clothes on his back... Right? I thought that in bankruptcy you do stand to lose everything except the basics - or is it only what you are in debt for specifically?


The intention of bankruptcy is to get a fresh start. You can't get a fresh start if lose everything and are left walking the streets with a barrel over your body like in a cartoon. So you need to keep the "clothes on your back." That term is left up to the states to decide how much is enough to leave a person. It varies widely from one state to another. Most states allow you to keep some equity in your home, car, household furnishings, retirement accounts, bank accounts, ect. Some states have unlimited homestead exemptions. Other states provide very little exemption amounts (homestead or otherwise). I don't know much about MS exemption laws. But unless someone challenges his exemptions, he won't surrender anything to the Trustee.



David LaFerney said:


> You actually are a law student aren't you?


I was a few years ago.


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## Oldtimer

SippyBees said:


> If nothing else.... he has probably become the most famous/ talked about beekeeper in this whole country...


Not so sure LOL!

My pick for best known / talked about beekeeper would be Acebird, followed by Mr. Famous, (weird coincidence about the name), the famous Brushy Mountain dissatisfied customer who had his 15 minutes of notoriety check this:- 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?276285-Customer-Dissatisfaction


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## jim lyon

Oldtimer said:


> Not so sure LOL!
> 
> My pick for best known / talked about beekeeper would be Acebird, followed by Mr. Famous, (weird coincidence about the name), the famous Brushy Mountain dissatisfied customer who had his 15 minutes of notoriety check this:-
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?276285-Customer-Dissatisfaction


Ha ha I had forgotten that one. A Beesource classic if ever there was one. :applause:


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