# How many empty bars should be in hive?



## mcr (May 5, 2018)

I have a TBH with 32 bars. My package of bees have built comb/brood on 11 bars and are starting on the 12th bar. Right now I have 4 extra bars before the divider board. Should I just keep an eye on things and add extra bars or just take out the divider board.This is my first hive.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Once I have the brood nest established (and 11 bars qualifies for that), I remove the division board and let them have the entire hive. I still like to add the empty bars between drawn brood bars, so I get good straight comb.


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## mcr (May 5, 2018)

I was thinking of adding any new bars between the existing combs to get straight ones. Thanks I will open her up this weekend and expand their world a little bit.
I have had some bees hatch out already and the queen relaying on the combs. So far I have had no problems.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I pretty much give the whole hive to the bees, but most of my TBHs are started from nucs, so the whole hive isn't that big. I've heard the discussion about bees building faster in a small area, but the best argument I can see for restricting a TBH is to try to keep the comb straight. If they are pulling straight comb then that isn't a problem.


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## mcr (May 5, 2018)

The combs are pretty straight except one fat one that bulges out a bit. Next question is about Queen excluders. Should I use one? I have read pros & cons about using them in Lang hives but nothing in TBH.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

mcr said:


> Next question is about Queen excluders. Should I use one? I have read pros & cons about using them in Lang hives but nothing in TBH.


Beauty of a horizontal hive - you don't need excludes. 
Now, that is natural.
Make sure your entrance is asymmetric (i. e. shifted to one end of the hive) OR is set in the warm way.
The queen will stay in the half (+/-) closest to the entrance (closer to fresh air, you can say). 
She will avoid going too far away from the entrance.
All it is to it.

PS: this is granted the hive is long enough (entire 1-2 foot long nuc considered "close to the entrance"; just does not matter if the volume is small).


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## mcr (May 5, 2018)

My hive is 46 inches long with the entrance at one end on the side.
When I checked today my bars # 3,4 & five had some empty brood cells along with pollen missing but was being worked like mad. Bees were gentle and the only thing that bothered them was a little smoke.



















Otherwise I think I'm doing ok. My brother is coming over Monday and we'll take a peek at the girls then
By the way I decided agaisnt an excluder, just didn't seem the right thing to do. They,re not in nature.


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## mcr (May 5, 2018)

Bars 11 & 12 were partial & had only honey in them


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

mcr said:


> My hive is 46 inches long with the entrance at one end on the side.
> ..........
> By the way I decided agaisnt an excluder, just didn't seem the right thing to do. They,re not in nature.


Sounds like you will not need an excluder as it is.
No, they don't exist in nature.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Lots of beehive features don't exist in nature - removable top bars and starter strips come quickly to mind ...
Some folk space their honey combs wider than their brood combs - that doesn't happen in nature either.

So why pick on excluders as 'not being in nature' ?
LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> ...
> So why pick on excluders as 'not being in nature' ?
> LJ


It is a convenient target - all it is.
Because you know, it is not really needed in a long hive.
Another specialized item to avoid - a good thing in this complicated life.

OH! I do have a use for a queen excluder - it is great to sift perga through. 
This is how I use it since I already have it.
Haha!


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

GregV said:


> It is a convenient target - all it is.
> Because you know, it is not really needed in a long hive.
> Another specialized item to avoid - a good thing in this complicated life.


Then take a look at the Bienenkiste Hive - arguably one of the most 'bee-friendly' beehives currently in use. There you'll find a Queen Excluder - but not one of the conventional wire grid types - just a simple wooden board. And that's all you need to use in a classic Top Bar Hive: a 'Follower Board' with a couple of inches removed from the bottom.

I use these primarily when wishing to clear combs of brood - they work a treat, and don't inconvenience or damage the bees.

In vertical stacks my preference is for a simple plywood separator with large holes drilled in the corners - again, they work extremely well. But because they're not sold by beekeeping suppliers (no profit in something you can so easily make for yourself) - they're not used by the average beekeeper.

I only ever use wire excluders when queen-rearing, and wouldn't trust anything else to keep queens apart.
LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> And that's all you need to use in a classic Top Bar Hive: a 'Follower Board' with a couple of inches removed from the bottom.
> 
> I use these primarily when wishing to clear combs of brood - they work a treat, and don't inconvenience or damage the bees.
> 
> ...


Well, like I was saying - "follower board is your friend".
Indeed, it works very well as a separator of brood and honey.
Such boards are in effect in my hives right now for my own reasons (getting bees to clean out last year's honey frames).
All my follower board allow for complete access around and below them. 

But a follower board is NOT a queen excluder in that it does not provide a 99.999% guaranty to stop the queen.
So I am not going to call a follower board a "queen excluder".

If a keeper is a homesteader type (like myself) with very limited demands of the bees, no need for much of that extra staff.


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