# Weight scale exemptions



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

What is the trailer rated to carry?


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

if either the truck or the trailer have dual wheels stop always. if you have single wheels, both:shhhh: pick-up and trailer and do not look bad, go by, if they chase you down they might yell and scream but if you act pleasant and a touch confused, you will just get a warning. every state and every official has their own ideas of what the rules really are. as you get over something like 18,000 you should probably stop. with pick-up and trailer with single wheels I have stopped and have been chewed out and threatened for tieing up the road block. .. these guys lack a sense of humor.


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

if they hold you up in a weigh station and you have bees on, after a brief time find out who is in charge and get information on where to send the bill for the dead bees, do not ask if they will pay, ask for names of those in charge and where the bill has to go. you will quickly be moving.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

bigprairiefarms said:


> We recently upgraded our truck and trailer. our new rig has a GVR of 26,000, so we aren't required to have a CDL. Is there any way to get exempt from having to stop at weight stations? The last thing that I want to have happen is to get stuck in line at a weight station in 90 degree weather and loose hives to over heating. I know that under FMCSA 391.2b I am not required to have a log or med card when hauling live bees for seasonal transportation. I am pretty sure that there are also exemptions for weight stations, I am just having trouble finding them. Thanks


Unless you get told to sit for an Inspection the wait in line is not long enough to make hives over heat. What kind of "rig" do you have? If it is rated for 10,000 lbs or more you are supposed to go across the scales, but lots of guys drive right by them w/out any trouble. I'm not saying that's what you should do, but lots do.


----------



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

bigprairiefarms said:


> I know that under FMCSA 391.2b I am not required to have a log or med card when hauling live bees for seasonal transportation.


Where do you read anything about truck logs in FMCSA 391.2a ????
391 is related to driver qualifications, NOT hours of service. 
:scratch:


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The two times I was asked by a NY State DOT person to see my Log Book and Drug Card I referred them to the Beekeeper Exempt and they spent some time on their radio and computer and didn't ask me for it again.

I have heard of guys w/ 6 wheelers and trailers who were asked for Log Books and when not being able to produce one produced a fuel and/or meal receipt and the DOT guy accepted that as proof of stopping. Lots of Inspectors/Enforcers, lots of interpretation of Laws.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> The two times I was asked by a NY State DOT person to see my Log Book and Drug Card I referred them to the Beekeeper Exempt and they spent some time on their radio and computer and didn't ask me for it again.


I had a similar experience a few months ago. I was driving an empty 1 ton through Kansas sans logbook (my bad) and got pulled over by a Highway Patrolman for no reason other than to run a random safety check. I didn't have a current log book so I just told him I was certain I didn't need one because of the "Apiarian exemption" since I was involved in the migratory transportation of bees. It caught him off guard and he said he would need to make a call to check on the law. After about 10 minutes he returned to my truck and said he wasn't able to find anyone to give him a definitive answer so he told me I could go. 
At the risk of getting a bit off topic, I have a fundamental problem with this sort of thing. Should someone really get pulled over by a law enforcement officer who is doing nothing more than trolling for violations? The Supreme Court has been pretty clear that before law enforcement can detain you and ask for an ID there must be a reasonable belief that you have violated some law. This isnt the first time I have had this sort of thing happen.


----------



## RAK (May 2, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> The Supreme Court has been pretty clear that before law enforcement can detain you and ask for an ID there must be a reasonable belief that you have violated some law. This isnt the first time I have had this sort of thing happen.


It makes them mad when you tell em that.


----------



## RAK (May 2, 2010)

There's a reason why I prefer to travel at night.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Heres an old thread from a truckers site:http://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...81805-bee-haulers-exempt-keeping-logbook.html

" Part 391 does not figure into hours of service, and the only exemption is as he stated. Transporting bees does not meet the exemption for planting, nor harvesting, but rather, pollinating for which there is no exemption. The only way one would be exempt from part 395 (hours of service) is within the 100-air mile radius exclusively with no shipments going beyond that.

Part 391 is the rules for driver qualifications and clearly those rules would apply.

From a retired federal DOT official"

So, Has anything changed since then?


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

There is a clause about not stopping due to declaring an emergency. Couldnt the declared emergency be the bees will die, or stopping during daylight hours could cause someone to get stung who may die as a result due to allergy?


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

jim lyon said:


> I had a similar experience a few months ago. I was driving an empty 1 ton through Kansas sans logbook (my bad) and got pulled over by a Highway Patrolman for no reason other than to run a random safety check. I didn't have a current log book so I just told him I was certain I didn't need one because of the "Apiarian exemption" since I was involved in the migratory transportation of bees. It caught him off guard and he said he would need to make a call to check on the law. After about 10 minutes he returned to my truck and said he wasn't able to find anyone to give him a definitive answer so he told me I could go.
> At the risk of getting a bit off topic, I have a fundamental problem with this sort of thing. Should someone really get pulled over by a law enforcement officer who is doing nothing more than trolling for violations? The Supreme Court has been pretty clear that before law enforcement can detain you and ask for an ID there must be a reasonable belief that you have violated some law. This isnt the first time I have had this sort of thing happen.


i agree Jim but they are not detaining us on the side of the road. I had a DOT guy pull me over in Va last year just because he couldnt figure out what i was hauling until he was walking along side of my truck and trailer. Nothing more than trolling!


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

loggermike said:


> So, Has anything changed since then?


alot. although all of Keith Jarrets post are excellent, this info contained in the post should be printed out and kept in your trucks, especially if you have agricultural plates
post #11 map 21

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...tions)-lt-38-000lb-transports&highlight=map21

and the link that was provided to the map21 info

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcs...Tranportation_of_Agricultural_Commodities.pdf

A ‘‘covered farm vehicle’’ (CFV), as
defined in Sec. 32934, is a straight truck
or articulated vehicle (e.g., a large
pickup, a truck pulling a trailer,
sometimes a standard tractor semitrailer
combination) registered in a State that is
used by the owner or operator of a farm
or ranch (or an employee or family
member of a farm or ranch owner or
operator) to transport agricultural
commodities, livestock, machinery or
supplies, provided the truck has a
license plate or other designation issued
by the State of registration that allows
law enforcement personnel to identify it
as a farm vehicle. Although a CFV may
not be used in for-hire motor carrier
operations, a share-cropper’s use of a
vehicle to transport the landlord’s share
of the crops may not be treated as a forhire
operation. If the CFV has a gross
vehicle weight (GVW) or gross vehicle
weight rating (GVWR), whichever is
greater, of 26,001 pounds or less, it may
take advantage of the CFV exemption
described below while operating
anywhere in the United States.

7. Add new § 390.39 to subpart B to
read as follows:
§ 390.39 Exemptions for ‘‘covered farm
vehicles.’’
(a) Federal requirements. A covered
farm vehicle, as defined in § 390.5,
including the individual operating that
vehicle, is exempt from the following:
(1) Any requirement relating to
commercial driver’s licenses in 49 CFR
Part 383 or controlled substances and
alcohol use and testing in 49 CFR Part
382;
(2) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part
391, Subpart E, Physical Qualifications
and Examinations.
(3) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part
395, Hours of Service of Drivers.
(4) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part
396, Inspection, Repair, and
Maintenance.

but the one thing that I can't figure out is if this is all the time or only during planting season??


----------



## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Same thing happened to me in Kansas on I35 as Jim. Had the whole family in a 4 door one ton. They pulled us over. Told us to then follow him to the rest stop for a brake check. Of course it was a new truck and past but then he gave me a full DOT inspection. I was running a log book so no issues there but it did kill over an hour of my time. That was it for me. Now we just drive our cars for the migration. Trucks stay in Sd and Tx.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Far as I can tell,California hasn't adopted the MAP21 regs yet. These exemptions only apply to a CFV(covered farm vehicle) with plates or tags issued by the state. California does not issue these , near as I can tell.
I did find where Ca has until 2016 to adopt these or lose funding.


----------



## bhfury (Nov 25, 2008)

In California, if you have the time it's better to volunteer for level 1 an inspection. Pass it and you get your CVSA sticker. Then as you go through the rest of scales and if they call you bring in your current inspection form and documents. You will probably get through it quicker. A typical DOT officer in California won't mess with loaded cattle trucks, hog trucks, tallow trucks, chicken or turkey trucks or bees. At least I didn't.

Port of Entries might be a different story.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

The original post asked about stopping at scales. I don't see that any of the MAP21 regulations will change any of that. In CA every commercial truck is supposed to stop. There was a bill (CA assembly 298) to bring CA into compliance. Anyone know if it passed?

From CA Farm Bureau Federation:
Farm Bureau sponsored bill, AB 298 (Richard Pan, D-Sacramento) will require California to implement
the agricultural exemptions provided in the federal highway bill, MAP-21, that became effective on
October 1, 2012. MAP-21 requires states to adopt the provisions within a three-year timeframe or lose
federal funding. AB 298 contains the exact language found in the federal legislation pertaining to
agricultural exemptions. Specifically, the exemptions will apply to vehicles used to transport agricultural
commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies for the farm and ranch. As with implements of
husbandry, the vehicles must be driven by the farmer/rancher, employee or family member and cannot
be used for hire. Current law requires vehicles with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or greater to be
registered as a commercial motor vehicle and also requires a CA number. MAP-21 exempts the
“covered” agricultural vehicles from the CVL requirements including; Hours of Service reporting during
harvest, a medical certificate, drug and alcohol testing, and inspection, repair and maintenance. In
addition, the exemption allows covered vehicles to transport product, supplies, equipment and livestock
from the farm/ranch to a location within 150 air miles from origin rather than just the first point of
processing. The vehicles will be required to have a special license plate as an identifier for law
enforcement. The bill will be a 2-year bill to allow time to continue to work with the CHP and DMV on
the details for implementation.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you operate a vehicle w/a 10,000 lb gross vehicle weight you are required by law to go through Weigh Stations. There are no exemptions. Whether you do or not is your own choice.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

And whether they chase you down depends on if its a slow day or not for them!

I stop at the scales now, but in years past, I always drove my 1 ton right on by. Maybe it was all those big black clusters of bees hanging off the load that made the CHP not too concerned about me stopping, but they never came after me.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> If you operate a vehicle w/a 10,000 lb gross vehicle weight you are required by law to go through Weigh Stations. There are no exemptions. Whether you do or not is your own choice.


Sort of, some states may post the limit even a bit lower. Also recreational vehicles are usually exempt regardless of gvw. I've never understood why a pickup pulling a 5th wheel RV with a combined weight of over 20K is less of a threat to public safety than a commercial vehicle with the same specs........perhaps it has something to do with the power of the AARP lobby.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ever though of gutting an RV and filling it with hives or other bee equipment?


----------



## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

sqkcrk said:


> Ever though of gutting an RV and filling it with hives or other bee equipment?


Or... build a small camper on the back of your flatbed, then you would have a rv with lots of storage.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That would not allow you to drive past scale houses w/out scrutiny.


----------



## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I have traveled through many states with trailers hooked to pick-up trucks of many sizes. And I can tell you first hand that every officer has differences in what the laws are. I am not sure that any of them know exactly what is exempt not exempt, what is considered CDL versus not needing a CDL. There are many variables such as, state, commercial vehicle, weight, combination vehicle, plates etc.. I have spent many hours on the sides of roads and at scale houses and they all have a different opinion on what is legal for the exact same vehicle.


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

rookie2531 said:


> I have traveled through many states with trailers hooked to pick-up trucks of many sizes. And I can tell you first hand that every officer has differences in what the laws are. I am not sure that any of them know exactly what is exempt not exempt, what is considered CDL versus not needing a CDL. There are many variables such as, state, commercial vehicle, weight, combination vehicle, plates etc.. I have spent many hours on the sides of roads and at scale houses and they all have a different opinion on what is legal for the exact same vehicle.


exactly correct.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes they do so run the night weekend hours. Most are closed and most DOT officers are home in bed not thinking about that questionable looking bee guy driving down the road.


----------



## bigprairiefarms (Jan 2, 2015)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Where do you read anything about truck logs in FMCSA 391.2a ????
> 391 is related to driver qualifications, NOT hours of service.
> :scratch:


I did further reading and you are right, 391 doesn't say anything about logs, although a state trooper at a weight station did tell me that I was exempt from having to keep them, as well as having to have driver qualification files. He directed me to 391, I just assumed he knew what he was talking about...

Since then, I have done quite a bit more research and beekeepers are actually totally exempt from almost all DOT requirements, including safety inspections, log books, and driver qualification files. under MAP21 (Moving Ahead with Progress). One of the few requirements is that the vehicle be licensed as a farm truck. Once you are in, under MAP21 allows you to travel anywhere in the country with a farm plate, given you meet a few basic requirements, such as not hiring yourself out etc. I've been stopped 3 times since getting signed up with MAP21 through the MI State Police. Every time it has been out of state. When they ask for my paper work I tell them I'm exempt under MAP21 because the truck is a farm truck. So far no one who has stopped me has ever heard of MAP 21, so they usually tell me that I am way out of my 150 mile safe zone with the farm truck. At this point I polity show them the MAP21 form. After looking it over they either wave me on or go look it up online and then wave me on.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

bigprairiefarms said:


> I did further reading and you are right, 391 doesn't say anything about logs, although a state trooper at a weight station did tell me that I was exempt from having to keep them, as well as having to have driver qualification files. He directed me to 391, I just assumed he knew what he was talking about...
> 
> Since then, I have done quite a bit more research and beekeepers are actually totally exempt from almost all DOT requirements, including safety inspections, log books, and driver qualification files. under MAP21 (Moving Ahead with Progress). One of the few requirements is that the vehicle be licensed as a farm truck. Once you are in, under MAP21 allows you to travel anywhere in the country with a farm plate, given you meet a few basic requirements, such as not hiring yourself out etc. I've been stopped 3 times since getting signed up with MAP21 through the MI State Police. Every time it has been out of state. When they ask for my paper work I tell them I'm exempt under MAP21 because the truck is a farm truck. So far no one who has stopped me has ever heard of MAP 21, so they usually tell me that I am way out of my 150 mile safe zone with the farm truck. At this point I polity show them the MAP21 form. After looking it over they either wave me on or go look it up online and then wave me on.


Interesting, could you provide a link showing the exemptions are nationwide in scope? All I am finding are state specific exemptions.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I cannot find where California has adopted MAP21 yet. It seems to fly in the face of the trend in Ca to bring more smaller trucks into the MCP and BIT programs. The guys with the f350 pickup and gooseneck trailer hauling bees, hay , horses etc.


----------



## bigprairiefarms (Jan 2, 2015)

I couldn't find a link either, but the hard copy form that I have states as follows: 

"for the purpose of this statement, a covered farm vehicle is a motor vehicle that: 
-Travels in the State by which the vehicle is registered or in another State; and 
-Is operated by an owner or operator of a farm or ranch, or by a family member or employee of the owner or operator; and 
-Transports agricultural commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies to or from a farm or ranch; and 
-has a license plate or some other means issued b the State that identifies it as a farm vehicle; and 
-is not use in for-hire motor carrier operations, except if it is operated under a crop share farm lease agreement, is owned by a tenant with respect to that agreement, and is transporting the landlord's portion of the crops under that agreement. 
-in addition the vehicle either has: 
-A Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), whichever is greater, of 26,000 pounds or less; or 
- Has a GVW or GVWR, whichever is greater, of more than 26,000 pounds and travels within the State where it is registered or, if traveling out of the State where it is registered, stays within 150 air miles of the owner or operator's farm or ranch." 

I had to get this form (which I had to sign and send back in) from a DOT special agent through the Michigan State Police. It takes a little work to find anyone who seems to know very much about MAP21, even people directly related to MAP21 get hung up on the part about being able to leave the 150 mile radius with farm tags until they look it up in their books. My take is that it is not a widely used or promoted exemption. Like I said in my original post, everyone who has given me any trouble about being out of state leaves me alone as soon as they look it up.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

to add to what bigprairie said the following is also in map21

If the CFV has a gross
vehicle weight (GVW) or gross vehicle
weight rating (GVWR), whichever is
greater, of 26,001 pounds or less, it may
take advantage of the CFV exemption
described below while operating
anywhere in the United States. <---- once a state conforms you can go anywhere.


----------



## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

But who wants to constantly be getting pulled over? So do you even need a dot number? Also do you drive right past weigh and truck check stations?


----------



## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

Any vehicle with a gvwr of 10000+ pounds, and in commerce, requires a usdot number. if you are running a dot marked vehicle, its just easier to run a log than not, because its not worth it to have to retrn to court for a log book violation.
Commerce is the catch word here, which means anytime money is changing hands for profit, such as hauling livestock, or freight, etc.
All commercial vehicles have to cross scales here in NY, unless posted otherwise.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yep and NY DOT is a real PITA. Just know where they are at and take alternate routes!


----------



## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I found the Guide the Colorado State Patrol put out. I tried to link it but the link is not working.

Do a search for:

The Colorado State Patrol Commercial Vehicle Safety Units- Farmers and Ranchers Guide


----------

