# County Bee Inspector - A Waste Of Taxpayer Dollars



## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I guess he doesnt like the inspector .
I wonder what some of the members here that used to have this job think?


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

He's a Gomer for sure but I disagree that inspection programs should be abolished. Many new hobbiest beeks (like myself) can benefit from having a knowledgable inspector to come in an have a look if requested. Not everyone is fanatacial about bee and read and learn everything they can, some people just want a hive in their yard to help pollinate a garden and don't know or don't care enough to learn about how to manage a hive.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't think this is funny as much as it is sad. Somebody needs more training on inspection, disease, disease rates and where they occur, and public speaking.

DLMKA, would you like this guy helping you out and advising you?


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## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

I hate to break it to yall but the guy who put out this video is Brian Farmer, a.K.A....the banned memember ohiocountryboy. Not only has he tried to get state bee officials fired, he sent a letter to all 88 ohio county auditors telling them to not have a bee inspector. Luckily, the state bee club rebounded and sent a letter to all the auditors telling them the merit of bee inspection programs. We only lost 2 countys inpection budegets.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Yes, and he has a knack for spreading lies, so take it with a grain of whatever.


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## theriverhawk (Jun 5, 2009)

God forbid my bees make comb that crosses from frame to frame. Can I pass along the cost of the citation to the bees directly? Maybe make them work an extra hour a day for 3 weeks to pay me back?


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Well, I didn't post this to cause trouble. I'm new at bee keeping and found it fascinating that people have to jump through all these hoops.

But, I'm just in it to raise bees in my small back yard in a top bar hive with no treatments, etc.

Can't we all just get along?


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## casinoken (May 6, 2012)

I guess all in all, in Mississippi we're lucky. We don't have to have our hives registered or inspected. The only way it is required here is if u raise bees and queens to sell outside of the state. Then u have to get the all clear. As to the comment about "some people just want a hive for their garden and don't want to read or learn everything about them", that is a sad but true statement about the human condition. People like that are neither helping themselves or the bees or the beekeeping community. Just my little rant. I read every major bee book and studied the subject of beekeeping for four years before I committed to getting hives, just don't see the point of doing something [email protected]@ed.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm learning all I can, even though I am not in it for huge production numbers, etc. I have learned tons over the past year from watching videos and reading quite a bit online. In fact, that's how I came across the above video. The video producer also had a video on laying workers that taught me what to look for with their egg patterns and a possible solution.

I don't know - I just can't imagine an inspector coming in my back yard to look at bugs. Next thing ya know we will have to have our kids inspected by some agent of the govt.

But that's just me. Someone please educate me if I have everything distorted.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm new at this, but it seems as though if everyone would just follow this advice set forth by Michael Bush, there would be no need for inspectors:

*Four simple steps to healthier bees*

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursimplesteps.htm


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The problem must stem from the top, ie, who employs these people, and who employs the people who employ these people.
Apparently he's from a beekeeping family so looks like "old boy" network decided he is an expert.

Nothing wrong with the concept of having an inspection program in fact done right it's a benefit to everybody. Just, it does need to be done right.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Well OK nobody is perfect. The comments in the video are primarily someone pushing the republican ticket. I am not in favor for state bee inspections but I don't see this guy as a bad inspector. 18 dollars and hour, whoop tee do. Do you want a state inspector telling you the sky is falling. The only real issue with bees is AFB and that is only because of commercial interest. New York, the empire state has not seen it as a major risk, hence no state inspectors. Each state has to decide what is at risk and the voters should decide.

I would have no problem having this guy look at my hive/hives. He probably knows a heck of a lot more than me.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

> People like that are neither helping themselves or the bees or the beekeeping community.


AMEN! Seem they want the benefit but no responsibility.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

as usual there probably is a lot more behind this video that we dont know about. no inspector could be this bad. acebird must be living under a rock. nys has bee inspectors and spend most of their time with hobby beekeepers but I should not argue with an expert.


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## willyC (May 6, 2010)

We have inspectors here in Wy but each one has to cover an area larger than a lot of eastern states. Because I care, I have a published/knowledgeable/respected bee keeper and professor inspect my hives, good news or bad I'm happy to gain the insight. This guy in the video is just sad, makes me feel so lucky to have access to my resources.
I doubt it would work for all but voluntary inspection is the way I roll.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Oldtimer said:


> The problem must stem from the top, ie, who employs these people...


He must bee the husban of the County Chairman's sister or something of that nature. And his job serves an important, and a vital purpose, it keeps him out of his politician brother-in-law's home, hair, and refrigator.


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## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

I have met the bee inspector in question and talked bees with him. I have also been at the one of the meetings he will talk at. This is a small beekeeping club in rural ohio with a lot of new beekeepers. The guy who made this video, brain farmer, ohiocountryboy(banned), also has a video on his channel trashing Barry for banning him. This meeting I went to when Farmer was there, was made very tence by him. He has torn the club apart. Trying to get people to be officers is hard becuase they don't feel like dealing with him. He raised a stink about every little thing on the minutes, proposed constitution, elections, etc. B.J Farmer also has that stinkin camera in everyones face. It made the meeting a uncomfortable, and not fun place to be. He raised a big stink that everyone else but him was sent an email about a cut out. The reason was he went and quoted the person 4500 dollars to do said cut out.
This is one of those cases were you really have to look where it is the information is coming from. I don't trust the guy. This inspector is an Ok-ish inspector. We have better and worse here in ohio. For the area he is in, he is probly one of the more knowledgable of in the area. Yes, Eric Simpson is son of Carlton and Bev Simpson, the owners of simpsons bee supply. If you ever get a chance to deal with them, I would recomend you do. Good people.


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## Jeff G (May 12, 2010)

And I am from that county in Ohio and from the bee club from that county that became so toxic, that last month the membership voted 24 to 1 to disband the bee club. So we did, and gave all our resourses of around $1200 to the Ohio Bee Lab in Wooster. Brian has been so disruptive that we had to cancil our winter beginner bee class. We had 30 people signed up and Brian refused to not video the class after the board asked him not to. The board canceld the class and sent everyone their money back. The reason was that they were afraid of what he might do with the video. Brian is a destructive individual that says he loves promoting beekeeping, but in my opinion he has done nothing but damage beekeeping in the state of Ohio.


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

If it wasn't for bee inspectors there would be alot more problems with diseases Etc. They are our 1st defense in determining were problems get started. They are the people who sounds off when we beekeepers are experienceing outbreaks of sickness and disease for all of us to listen to and to contain problems before they spread. We need them they do alot of good and help alot of people. Me personally all hail the inspectors they are to important to lose. There is a better way to say this. BRAINFART moment.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

PatBeek said:


> I'm new at bee keeping and found it fascinating that people have to jump through all these hoops.


Either the guy doesn't know the difference between crosscomb and burr comb or no one ever taught him. The problem he was trying to speak on is whether one can iunspect a hive because the combs are built across the hive tyhru the frames, aka crosscomb. I don't believe that burr comb ever got anyone ticketed. We never sighted anyone for it when I was an Inspector in Ohio and when I Inspected in NY for 20 years.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Jeff G said:


> became so toxic, that last month the membership voted 24 to 1 to disband the bee club. So we did.


This is a great shame. 

No doubt you folks still know each other. After a few months I think you should reform as a new group, perhaps under the auspices of some new beek who was not a player in the last one. And obviously, the problem guy, and his camera, will not be invited. He likely has a few hangers on, they should not be invited either. 

And finally, if they do show up, be prepared to use the police, keep the group how a bee club should be.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

How is cross comb unhealthy?


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

casinoken said:


> As to the comment about "some people just want a hive for their garden and don't want to read or learn everything about them", that is a sad but true statement about the human condition. People like that are neither helping themselves or the bees or the beekeeping community. Just my little rant. I read every major bee book and studied the subject of beekeeping for four years before I committed to getting hives, just don't see the point of doing something [email protected]@ed.


I disagree. There are so many things that I do and use, that I have only a small idea about how it works, but nothing beyond that. Some people have busier lives than others, and in this day and age of "going green" and helping out the environment, I see nothing wrong with placing a hive near a garden and letting the bees be bees, if that's how they can contribute.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Jeff G said:


> And I am from that county in Ohio and from the bee club from that county that became so toxic, that last month the membership voted 24 to 1 to disband the bee club.


Why? All you had to do is vote him out if you don't have a clause in your bylaws to through him out. It doesn't make senses that you would let one person destroy the club.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

the main reason for bee inspection programs is to prevent the spreading of afb. cross comb frames cannot be pulled out for inspection of the disease. most states have laws that the frames have to be removable for this reason. as I have said inspection programs are one of the few programs that benefit the beekeeper. these laws were enacted at the request of beekeepers. (not the governments)


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

In Oklahoma we have one inspector for the whole state from what I understand and registration of hives is voluntary and I am fine with that. If you ever run across AFB you won't need a state employee to tell you.



> these laws were enacted at the request of beekeepers. (not the governments)


Mainly to protect them from folks that want bees in their garden but are too "busy" to learn how to manage them.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

Not sure what you're getting at. How are people who don't actively manage their hives dangerous?


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Because if these hives get AFB the owner would never know while the drones are busy spreading it to other beekeepers colonies.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm doing all I can to learn to keep bees naturally without having to babysit the bees with formic acid and large-cell foundation which promotes disease/mites. That's why I listened to the FatBeeMan last night on the following podcasts:

*Podcast Episode 18 – Meet Don the FatBeeMan*

*Podcast Episode 19 – The FatBeeMan 2 of 3*

*Podcast Episode 20 – FatBeeMan Intro Series 3 of 3*


These and other podcasts on natural bee keeping can be found here:

*Organically Managed Beekeeping Podcast and Forums*

.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

PatBeek said:


> babysit the bees with formic acid and large-cell foundation which promotes disease/mites.


Who told you that one? Wonder if they had any properly done research to back the claim.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

NasalSponge said:


> Because if these hives get AFB the owner would never know while the drones are busy spreading it to other beekeepers colonies.


Is that usually how AFB is spread? And if that is the process that causes deadly cases of AFB, then why not take it a step further and seek out the feral hives and inspect them?


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

PatBeek said:


> I'm doing all I can to learn to keep bees naturally without having to babysit the bees with formic acid and large-cell foundation which promotes disease/mites.


Do you have links to research that proves this? I would love to see it.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Keth Comollo said:


> Do you have links to research that proves this? I would love to see it.



It's all anecdotal from people who have been successfully doing it for years.

But, all anyone has to do is go visit Dee Lusby and Michael Bush's bee yards to do their own research.

Admittedly, I'm a new-comer - but it sure does seem plain for me to see that the art of bee keeping correlates with my research into health - in general - with humans.

The more you medicate/vaccinate/tamper with humans, the more unhealthy they become. That's why we are now seeing super bugs like MRSA, etc. Also, I have done extensive research on these whooping cough vaccines. The media and health officials keep trying to blame those who don't vaccinate on various outbreaks, but mainstream researchers have proven that the actual vaccine has caused the bacteria to mutate.

But the bottom line, just because I'm new at bee keeping doesn't mean I don't have common sense with how we are tampering humans and animals into near-extinction with "science".

I think the following article concerning Sam Comfort's philosophy on bee keeping (he's seen all sides first hand) sums-up the direction I want to go with all of this.



> "One last point of Sam Comfort's talk that I found quite shocking was about his experience adding chemicals to hives while working for commercial beekeepers. Sam told of a story about opening hives filled with dead bees overrun with thousands of verroa mites crawling everywhere, even over the strip of a deadly chemical called formic acid that was meant to kill them. The pests and diseases that we kill with chemicals always seem to build up resistance to the chemicals, while leaving the creatures we try to protect in harms way. What if instead of focusing on killing the “enemy” we focused on helping the friend. I feel like the best way we can support the honeybees is to help them to help themselves by supporting their whole being and helping them build up their immune systems so they have the knowledge to stay wild and healthy with the tools and strength to fight their own battles."
> 
> http://www.backyardhive.com/Article...d_article/Organic_Beekeeping_Conference_2010/


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

a lot of the past replys are a great example of why its more important to read a good beekeeping rather than learn beekeeping from forums.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

All well and good but until I see a complete study that show definitively that small cell actually works I will continue on my current path. A couple of beekeepers out of thousands doesn't make a conclusion on small cell but if you choose to believe it then I wish you all the luck in the world!

The world may be flat. I prefer to look at the science.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Keth Comollo said:


> All well and good but until I see a complete study that show definitively that small cell actually works I will continue on my current path. A couple of beekeepers out of thousands doesn't make a conclusion on small cell but if you choose to believe it then I wish you all the luck in the world!
> 
> The world may be flat. I prefer to look at the science.


But what if the foxes are in charge of the hen-houses?

Who is conducting the "acceptable" studies?

Who is funding them?

Blue Diamond posted this in another thread. I'm not sure his take on it, but it proves my point that these "experts" most-often times have an agenda to prove the point of those who butter their bread:



> BlueDiamond
> 
> 
> Default Re: Bees and pesticides - the state of the science - final report
> ...



I'm not buying it from this "expert".

If someone doesn't smell any conflict-of-interest with someone like that, then hey, whatever.

.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

PatBeek said:


> The more you medicate/vaccinate/tamper with humans, the more unhealthy they become.


 Heard this claim increasingly often, I guess if it's repeated often enough some folks will think it's true.

Problem though, it's not true. People in the West are now the most medicated / vaccinated people to have ever existed. They are also the longest lived.

However if we insist on applying the formerly mentioned incorrect theory about humans, to bees, we also run into the issue of how much of what applies to humans, we can apply to bees.

With regards to Sam Comforts claim of seeing thousands of mites running over formic acid, sorry, don't believe it. Doubt Sam's a liar, this type of claim is likely more a function of the way internet chat sites work.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> Problem though, it's not true. People in the West are now the most medicated / vaccinated people to have ever existed. They are also the longest lived.


The life-expectancy in the west escalated because we had old-timers who were raised on farms with free-range eggs, unvaccinated/non-antibiotic cattle, almost zero pesticides/commercial fertilizers, development of the flush-toilet/modern sewer systems, and THEY had very few vaccinations and other interventions. They had natural immunity for the most part.

Right now the kids are being raised on Froot Loops, Cokes and drugs/vaccines. We are seeing cancer (and a mountain of other autoimmune/neurological issues) from children up to adults escalating like crazy. 

The life-expectancy in this nation is dropping like a rock. I bet most of you know someone with cancer - even children. Heck, they even had to unveil the Cancer Barbie because so many kids are getting cancer now:

*Bald Barbie: Mattel Under Pressure To Mass Produce Doll For Cancer Sufferers* 










My contention is, it wasn't the drugs/vaccines that raised the life-expectancy in this nation - it was an overall better standard-of-living. I can provide research and stats/graphs to back up my claims, but I figure I'm going too far off on this tangent. 

I'm not trying to make enemies here, because I surely respect all of your combined experience. But I do think it's important to talk all of these things out like respectful adults. I appreciate the conversation, and hope to remain friends with all of you in spite of our different philosophies, etc.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Cancers don't happen in the unmedicated third world? 

Sickness of all kinds is a huge problem for humans in most unmedicated parts of the world, and one of the reasons most of them are old by the time they are 40.

Even in the US or in my country, take a walk around an old cemetry, more than 100 years old. The number of graves of young people is amazing.

Using nice sounding pat phrases that people use in relation to how they see the world in regards to human health doesn't really work for bees.

However we have digressed from the origional claim, which was that formic acid and large cell promote disease / mites. Still interested in any properly done research to back that.

And just one other thing, don't worry about making enemies, well, not with me anyway. Under my ugly exterior I'm not a bad guy . I'll enter a debate, but lifes to short for enemies, next thread we're both on I'm sure we'll agree on something. Cheers.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> Cancers don't happen in the unmedicated third world?
> 
> Sickness of all kinds is a huge problem for humans in most unmedicated parts of the world, and one of the reasons most of them are old by the time they are 40.
> 
> Even in the US or in my country, take a walk around an old cemetry, more than 100 years old. The number of graves of young people is amazing.


All probably because of malnourishment and/or poor sanitation practices/lack of clean water, etc.

.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

beeware10 said:


> oldtimer
> ya better give up. there is no way to argue with a new beekeeper that knows everthing. keep up with your posts for the people that want to learn.


Well, the thing is, obviously, you guys could destroy me on knowledge of how to do splits, queen-rearing, newspaper-combining, checkerboarding, etc, but the whole deal with how immune systems work transcends bees and bee keeping. 

As far as I'm concerned, I can hold my own discussing health issues in general, but would get completely schooled by you ladies-and-gentlemen on all other aspects.

It's a blast discussing all of these things with you all. I hope there aren't any hard feelings. I can understand how inspectors losing their jobs or people who develop formic acid for large corporations might be offended by this discussion, but for the average bee keeper, you all should happily welcome these discussions no matter which side(s) of the coin you're on.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

beeware10 said:


> oldtimer
> ya better give up. there is no way to argue with a new beekeeper that knows everthing. keep up with your posts for the people that want to learn.


Oh yes I know these kinds of debates are unwinnable, by either side. The only exception being if authoritative research is produced, there is none for the other side of this argument, and any I could produce would have been written by part of the "evil empire", which no doubt I am part of myself.

But no disrespect at all for any of those new beeks starting a great adventure with bees. We are all a product of the education we recieved but the best education far as bees go is actually working with them. When because of our own experience, we begin to wonder about the accuracy of what we read in some of those books or web posts, we know our real education is beginning.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

PatBeek said:


> I'm doing all I can to learn to keep bees naturally without having to babysit the bees with formic acid and large-cell foundation which promotes disease/mites.


I don't know if you could possibly take this thread any farther off topic than you have but I will add this. Last year I did only two "treatments" for mites using powdered sugar in all of my hives. NO formic, no nothing else. Two of my yards, 15 miles apart, have 10 comparable hives each, except one is all large cell and one small cell. Survival of the hives over the winter was 9 in the large cell yard and 7 in the small cell. This year I hope to expand each of those two to 20 hives ea. for a larger trial.

I didn't "babysit" either yard with formic acid and don't know how using large cell is babysitting them. I don't think the difference in survival is all that great so that I can make a general statement in favor of one over the other, especially after only one year trying of small-cell. 

You put great stock in anecdotal evidence. Not a good substitute for experience, in my opinion. While I've learned that experience often does not make one an "expert," having little or no experience certainly does little to raise confidence. 

I've read much of what both Michael Bush and Dee Lusby has written and attended a conference with and spoke to Dee a bit about small cell, which is the reason why I'm working with it now. I like the concept, I like the possibility and I like the idea of having my bees make free comb on foundation-less frames, saving me many hundreds of dollars each year,. And even though I started with bees in 1977, I still can not speak with the authority that you seem to possess about the merits of one method over the other.

When I've tried my informal experiments long enough, perhaps I'll be as qualified as a newbie to make such sweeping pronouncements about methods of beekeeping, but until then, I'll just keep an open mind and keep trying different things

Wayne


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Someone wrote:
The only real issue with bees is AFB and that is only because of commercial interest.

Baloney. The "Bull of the Woods" always said that it was the individual beekeeper that lost a hive to AFB, did not know why, then stuck the old equipment in a barn, to be robbed out and spread to all of the other hives in the area. He claimed is was the source of most AFB, and could be prevented with the knowledge of an inspector. The commercial people are well aware of AFB, can not afford to let it spread in their operations, and therefore are rather vigilant. 

AFB is a walk in the part compared to CCD. That one is is much more lethal and fast. You really have to be on the ball to stay ahead of any infection, it can spread and kill very fast. Again, the knowledge of an inspector would be helpful to all. 

SQKCRk can comment, but I suspect that the inspectors are well aware of who knows what they are doing, and who does not.

Crazy Roland


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

PatBeek said:


> All probably because of malnourishment and/or poor sanitation practices/lack of clean water, etc.
> 
> .


And since you've completely hijacked the thread with your notions of cancer, here's a tidbit from cancer.org website:
"
Our oldest description of cancer (although the word cancer was not used) was discovered
in Egypt and dates back to about 3000 BC. It is called the Edwin Smith Papyrus, and is a
copy of part of an ancient Egyptian textbook on trauma surgery. It describes 8 cases of
tumors or ulcers of the breast that were treated by cauterization, with a tool called the fire
drill. The writing says about the disease, “There is no treatment.” "

Wayne


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

And back on topic, I'll add this:

Most beekeepers in here Maine would give very high marks to our State Bee Inspector. He inspects many thousands of hives imported to pollinate our blueberry crop and keeps an eye on the hobbyist hives. He speaks at the state beekeepers association meeting and does two programs a year at our Western Maine Beekeepers school. And I know he does programs with the other clubs in the state. He is one of the most knowledgeable people I have ever met on the subject of the honeybee, and certainly no slouch in educating all that are interested in the subject. 

Still, I'm sure that some idiot could video one of his programs and edit it to make him appear a fool. As has been noted previously, consider the source of that video. (Does anyone remember the video that was the subject of the thread before the OP hijacked his or her own thread?) When I learned who was behind the video, it all made sense. I got no "kick out of it" as the OP assumed we would.

Wayne


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Oldtimer said:


> Even in the US or in my country, take a walk around an old cemetry, more than 100 years old. The number of graves of young people is amazing.


Yup... just across the road here.... old cemetery... about 1840 the Yellow Fever raged amongst these people. Whole families are planted together. Most of the graves are undetectable because the tombstones are long gone. Those scourges took a lot of people.... doubt the average life expectancy was 40. I remember my wife's elderly father telling me that they never named a baby till he was at last 2, because of the belief that naming it was a sure way to get his name on a tombstone.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I am giving a Bee-ology talk in an hour. I sure hope no one is filming to put it on YouTube.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Roland said:


> SQKCRk can comment, but I suspect that the inspectors are well aware of who knows what they are doing, and who does not.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Statistics gathered each season and for a number of seasons, in NY, showed the majority of the cases of AFB occured in apiaries smaller in size owned by beekeepers w/ fewer colonies. In other words, proportionally, not in the Commercial Apiaries. Which doesn't mean none is or was ever found in Commercially run apiaries, just less often.


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## Bee Man (Sep 19, 2004)

Our bee inspector we have is good - we like to keep up with folks near us who simply set up hives and let bees "live" - we like to know who might be using antibiotics as our bees are flying around "naked". Many beeks are pretty cheap in regards to AFB - you get it you burn the hive and toss the equipment, or you can use the "shaker" method to save the bees, but hives must still be burned and buried. Many large beeks treat their hives empirically with antibiotics, etc. since they don't want to lose the bees. Spores can live for many many years with AFB and wipe out complete beeyards. We find many new beeks have no idea what diseases to look for at all and then wonder why their bees died. then they get new bees and stick them into the same hive - duh? I don't even wanted to get started on why most folks need a bee inspector today - many people simply don't really care - they just want a hive. No meetings, no reading, no nothing - they just want bees. That's fine and good except out entire business relies on bees keeping healthy and if their bees are just flying around with a variety of issues - that means our bees are vulnerable. So for all of you who simply think bees will be bees - this isn't 1965! Take the video and toss it out - guy who made this has a few years in the industry, few hives and thinks he an expert - hates gment. Crazy thing is guys like him is why we all now must be subjected to inspections Also how many of you grab a swarm and place it onto drawn comb - stop doing this! Let them build out their own foundation. Swarms go crazy and giving them drawn comb is only spreading diseases which will impact all of us! How many of you spin honey in the Spring and then wonder why your bees died and blame it on CCD? They starved to death - leave extra supers on your hives - winters are mellow and bees are eating more. We see so many beeks get into beekeeping for a year or two and simply don't want to do anything and then wonder why their bees die?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Thank you SQKCRK, as I suspected.

Crazy Roland


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

I'm sure this won't be too much of a surprise to some of you, especially after reading my comments in this particular thread, that this is my avatar on Facebook presently:


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## oblib (Oct 28, 2011)

:lpf: i love that picture.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

Well, sometimes the government DOESN'T love us or know what's best:

*Government tyranny: Illinois Department of Agriculture secretly destroys beekeeper's bees and 15 years of research proving Monsanto's Roundup kills bees*

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035920_beekeeper_Illinois_raid.html#ixzz1vQsc6EVI

.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

*Terrence Ingram Gets Hearing Three Weeks After Destruction of Evidence*


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Certainly his written documentation of his research wasn't confiscated and destroyed, was it? I'd find that hard to fathom.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

From the linked article QUOTE - "Of particular interest was Ingram's extensive research on Monsanto's Roundup herbicide, which began several years ago when hundreds of Ingram's hives had died. He later determined that Roundup sprayings near his property were to blame" END QUOTE.

I'd be fascinated to see the extensive research. Where is it published?


From the linked article QUOTE - "He also used this information and his many years of experience to develop and refine ways of growing strong, chemical-free bees in spite of Roundup sprayings, a move that apparently upset IDofA, which operates primarily to serve the interests of chemical companies rather than the interests of the people" END QUOTE.

An oxymoron, surely. If roundup was truly killing bees, and Ingram had truly bred a strain of bee that roundup would not kill, then surely this would be something Monsanto would want, same as they want corn that roundup would not kill. The reasoning used in this article is a nonsense.


I've been doing some "extensive research" of my own LOL. Well maybe not totally extensive. . The results are that roundup is safe to bees, even Ingrams, and that Mosanto was not a hidden hand behind the destutruction of his hives, nor have they even heard of the guy. AFB and poor beekeeping killed his hives.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

I 100% agree with oldtimer. Its amazing how so many people can read the facts but only pick out a few tidbits that fit their agenda.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

beeware10 said:


> I 100% agree with oldtimer. Its amazing how so many people can read the facts but only pick out a few tidbits that fit their agenda.



So why did the government steal his bees without a notice/warrant?

That's the elephant-in-the-room here, IMHO.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

same answer to the post by patbeek


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

PatBeek said:


> So why did the government steal his bees without a notice/warrant?
> 
> That's the elephant-in-the-room here, IMHO.


When did you stop beating your wife? That's the elephant I'm seeing. Show me where he wasn't notified of the impending Inspection, a number of times? What would you expect the State Agents to do finding diseased bees, brood, and equipment?

If you find an entry in a Ships Log stating "The Captain was sober today.", what does that mean? So, when you mention stealing w/out notice, when they gave notice of what was to come, how can you say they didn't?


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I would posit without knowing the laws of his state that as a beekeeper with hives that had previously been inspected, they didn't need one. I am loathe to call what the inspectors did "stealing." Sounds to me more like dealing with a problem after the beekeeper disregarded notices to do so.


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

Too many rules and too many people in everyone elses business. Dont tread on me...


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

PatBeek said:


> .
> 
> Well, sometimes the government DOESN'T love us or know what's best:


We discussed that story a couple weeks ago. Turns out, (and not reported in that video,) that the beekeeper in question received many warnings that his hives had foulbrood and he chose to do nothing.

This was government working to protect us from irresponsible people. A beekeeper with his experience certainly knows the laws and when he forces the bee inspector to act because of his lack of action, his whining is pitiful. He got what he deserved. In fact, I think the law should allow that he be fined for his actions.

Being brand new to beekeeping, I suppose we can forgive your ignorance about the dangers infected hives pose to those who work to maintain healthy hives. If a neighbor of mine had bees infected with AFB and chose to do nothing about it, I would volunteer to help the "tyrants" load the hives for the trip to the burn pile. 

Wayne


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Some of his closing statements in that video were scary also. Seems he is considering going "underground" and keeping secret hives that will not be registered. He also claims to have a large stash of old combs he can use, that contain in his words, "chilled brood". Neighboring beeks trying to keep healthy hives, may not have heard the last of this yet. 

Exactly the same stuff happens in my country also, the 1% cause a lot of financial loss for the 99%.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

waynesgarden said:


> If a neighbor of mine had bees infected with AFB and chose to do nothing about it, I would volunteer to help the "tyrants" load the hives for the trip to the burn pile.
> 
> Wayne


Someone brought this up earlier in the thread - so why aren't feral hives inspected? Obviously, that would be impossible, but apparently they aren't much of a problem anyhow. They are surviving somehow without the government's (or our) assistance.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

feral hives do get AFB same as any other hives, and die of it also. Back when all hives were feral, there was AFB. Feral hives are not in apiaries of many hives, they are spread around. So before humans started farming bees, there was a natural balance between bees, and AFB. When a wild hive dies of AFB, other organisms such as wax moths move in and clean up the combs etc, that is their natural purpose.

When a kept hive gets AFB, it's a much worse situation. There will often be a large number of hives kept close together. Also the beekeeper, if not experienced, might also spread infected material from one hive to another, as Ingram has done. Infected material might also be sold to other beekeepers.

So AFB is a much worse problem in domestic hives, than feral ones, due to the activities of the keeper. Left to follow it's own course in kept hives, it will run amok, gradually killing them out. this process can take years, but a beekeeper who once had say, 130 hives, could wake up one day and find they only have 3.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

as far as diseased feral bees go this is where nature brought in wax moths. feral bees can still be a problem as no one knows the source. Im sure if you had a afb problem from a nearby beekeeper your views would be quite different.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeManiac said:


> Too many rules and too many people in everyone elses business. Dont tread on me...


So, just asking, would you rather have no Apiary Inspection at all? Everyone responsible for themselves or not because of ignorance and neglect?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

PatBeek said:


> Someone brought this up earlier in the thread - so why aren't feral hives inspected? Obviously, that would be impossible, but apparently they aren't much of a problem anyhow. They are surviving somehow without the government's (or our) assistance.


Some do and some don't and those that don't get eaten up rather quickly by wax moths. One can't really compare managed hives w/ feral hives.


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## oblib (Oct 28, 2011)

Andrew Dewey said:


> I would posit without knowing the laws of his state that as a beekeeper with hives that had previously been inspected, they didn't need one. I am loathe to call what the inspectors did "stealing." Sounds to me more like dealing with a problem after the beekeeper disregarded notices to do so.


I'm living in IL and have a copy of the apiary laws right in front of me. No warrent needed to do an inspection and if they find disease like AFB they will declare the hive a nuisance and tell you in writing the required means of abatement as well as the required time frame to get it done. If you refuse to do it then they will abate it themselves and bill you for the cost which if not paid the AG Dept can recover the cost thru any court with jurisdiction.

Again NO warrent needed for any of this as you "gave permission" when you decided to have bee colonies. Just as you agree to the rules of the road when you get a drivers license.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Sorted.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

PatBeek said:


> ....but apparently they aren't much of a problem anyhow. They are surviving somehow without the government's (or our) assistance.


Do you know why they are not much of a problem? It's because Varroa has destroyed a large percentage of them. 

AFB exists in feral hives but to a lesser degree than managed hives, likely due to the smaller populations according to a study done in New Zealand that showed lower incidence of foulbrood in feral hives in areas of high foulbrood incidence in managed hives,

Wayne


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Colony density. That's why, if one could check 100 feral colonies, one won't find as high a percentage of AFB.

AFB transmition in managed hives is mostly done by beekeepers, not bees.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

AFB transmition in managed hives is mostly done by beekeepers, not bees. 

Looks like SQKCRK nailed it again. "We have met the enemy, and we are they" A quote from the Pogo comic strip of the 70's( I believe it was an investigation into the Fort Mudge dump). 

Crazy Roland


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"We have met the enemy. and he is us." is the way I remember it. Pogo was my favorite, back in the day. My Dad had a couple of the books. Being young I didn't see the underlying political stuff.

How to get AFB. Or, How AFB gets around.

1. Unwitting beekeeper buys it.
2. Unwitting beekeeper extracts honey from infected hives and, putting frames in a number of other boxes, exposes uninfected hives to infected equipment.
3. Robbing bees taking up honey from weak or dead infected colonies.

Cure? Knowledge. AFB Identification should be taught to all beginning beekeepers. IPM for AFB is practical and not ineficient for Smallscale and Sideline Beekeepers, who can number stamp hives and supers and frames and always keep them together and only used on those hives. Thus keeping the exposure down.

Beekeepers can get their State Apiary Inspector to address Local and State Clubs and Associations on what AFB is, looks like, how to sample for Lab confirmation, and how to dispose of infected equipment when AFB is found.

I am of the opinion that Apiary Inspections should be about educating beekeepers on the things beekeepers do and deal w/ which can and do effect other beekeepers. Actual inspection of beehives should be done too. But, seems like there is a Bible verse which fits here, coming from your atheist. "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he can feed himself." Or something like that.

Apiary Inspectors can't be everywhere in every hive, so beekeepers need to find their own infections and know how to deal w/ them properly, by burning and/ or deep burial.


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