# Best Robber Screen Design?



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Attach a piece of material over the half where the outer entrance is. The foreign bees will be attracted to the open screened area, away from the entrance. 

I think that's helpful....


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

It seems like I have seen one like that in a catalog somewhere - makes sense.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

David LaFerney said:


> It seems like I have seen one like that in a catalog somewhere - makes sense.


I copied Brushy Mountain's version, except I used Luan instead of aluminum.


----------



## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

I like iddee's version the best. Simple and has not failed to keep them out!


----------



## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

I just got some from BM, they look ok:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/8-FRM-MOVING-AND-ROBBING-SCREEN/productinfo/254MRS/


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

When I did mine, Brushy Mt. was selling that as a "screen door" They added the entrance and called it a robbing screen several years after I made mine. The simplest is actually to just block all but the last 3/8" of the entrance with screen wire stapled to the box and the bottom board. It works pretty well for the same reasons, which is that the robbers are going by smell and are in a frenzy where the locals remember how they got out...


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

If a virgin queen issues from a hive equipped with a robber screen will she be able to get back in?


----------



## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

Good question David, why don't you try it and let us know?


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm sure I will try it even if it's not on purpose. If the answer is an emphatic - sure no problem, the queen will get back fine - then I will probably whip something up for some mating nucs too . Since they are the most likely ones to be robbed.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The queen finds her way back the same way the locals do. Worst case she ends up hanging on the front and the ball of bees should give it away.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks that's what I was hoping to hear.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Well I made several different kinds of robber screens to try out - including some for 3 frame mini mating nucs - and they all work. Apparently the simple ones work just as well as the more elaborate ones. I have seen no problems with queens mating from hives equipped with them. 

A couple of observations though. All hives are pretty confused when you first install them, and the confusion lasts several days, even a week or so, but they do figure it out.

If robbing has not yet started when you apply the screen, then they do a great job of keeping it from ever starting. If robbing is already going when you deploy the screen it won't immediately put a complete stop to it - robbing may continue for a week or so, but it will diminish over time, and eventually stop.

These are just my experiences over the last several weeks - your mileage may vary.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Did some more work in my bee yard today, and I can say this for sure - 8 frame singles ( i have several) that have robber screens on them have more resources, more brood, and have built up better than the ones that don't - even though I have not really noticed any on-going robbing activity.


----------



## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

My virgins did not do well with the robbing screens. I've since gone to putting them on once they are mated and laying well. Could be toooo many virgins trying to figure it out and other mating nucs close by without them that they were easier to get into vs. the ones that belonged to them. It's a challenge once it gets closer to fall and the flow slows or quits entirely....


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

That hasn't been my experience so far, but I also haven't tried it in numbers sufficient to be sure. However if it is a concern with mating nucs you can use one with a feature like this http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/8-FRM-MOVING-AND-ROBBING-SCREEN/productinfo/254MRS/ and open the gate in front of the main entrance during the few days when your queen will be going out to mate.

For some reason I have had exceptional luck with queens getting mated this season.


----------



## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> The simplest version is just 4 pieces of wood and a screen - does not restrict the entrance...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So this one is full length opening at the top? And it is enough to keep out robbers? I need something with minimal wood sawing, all I have is a portable jig saw so I want something really simple. Straight cuts and stapling. 
Can I use fiberglass screen which I have plenty of at this time?


----------



## jeb532 (Feb 16, 2011)

Super cheap and effective robber screen

Cut a piece of 8 gage screen 3" wide and 2" longer than the width of the opening on your hive.

Fold it into a "w" shape along the 3" width with 90 degree corners i.e. you'll have four 3/4" legs.

Staple it in front of the hive entrance as shown in the photo so thath the bees have to make a 90 degree turn at either side of the opening to exit/enter the hive.

http://s561.photobucket.com/user/5322009/media/beekeeping/rs3_zps3f6bc1cf.jpg.html


----------



## imthedude (Jan 28, 2013)

are these pretty much standard for you guys this time of year? though i haven't noticed any robbing activity when present at my hives, i don't spend hours at my hives sitting and watching the entrances looking for signs of robbing, though i do suspect it's happening even though i don't see it.

thoughts?


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Bev- yes that one is open all along the top and doesn't restrict the entrance, and it does work. I don't know about rhe fiberglass screen, but i would try it if that is what i had.

Imthedude - here in the mid south not a lot of people use them, but it might be better if they did. I guess it depends - if you don't have many hives and they are all about the same size it probably doesn't matter.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Because those hives which i have equipped with robber screens are doing better than the ones without i suspect that robbing is going on even though it is not easily visible.


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

jeb532 said:


> ...Fold it into a "w" shape along the 3" width with 90 degree corners i.e. you'll have four 3/4" legs...Staple it in front of the hive entrance as shown in the photo...http://s561.photobucket.com/user/5322009/media/beekeeping/rs3_zps3f6bc1cf.jpg.html


 Fantastic! Thank you!


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

imthedude said:


> ... signs of robbing, though i do suspect it's happening even though i don't see it?


 I place a piece of cardboard on the ground in front of the hive. It is very good "indicator tray" of hive's businesses. You could see some dead larvae, occasional dead bees etc. If hive operates normally - usually all debris removed very quickly. If you see many dead bees on the "indicator tray" - it may be an indication of the problem. I missed the robbing of the hive, which had gravel on the ground and no "indicator tray." I have just a few hives, it is not a problem to have a piece of cardboard in front of the hive.


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

betterbee has adjustable screened entrances for a real low price like $2, with a couple of thumb tacks just leave them open 3/4 inch square,a small entrance with lots of ventilation. I first got them for moving hives but leave them on all summer, the small entrance limits robbing


----------



## BigDawg (Apr 21, 2013)

So forgive my ignorance, but a robbing screen is used instead of an entrance reducer to allow for better ventilation? What if you are using top entrances (i.e. shims under inner cover and top cover), how do you stop robbing there? If you use top entrances and your screened bottom board is open, could you just use an entrance reducer (solid wood) or would the hive still get too hot?

Thanks!


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

BigDawg said:


> ...robbing screen is used instead of an entrance reducer to allow for better ventilation?


 I think, robbing screen could be used this way. Entrance reduction is a way of controlling the robbing. If you have a robbing screen, you do not need to use the entrance reducer as an anti0robbing measure. If you concern regarding robbing - you probably should use only one entrance. From another hand, Michael Bush design of the robbing screen has reduced entrances. For the weak hive, I feel it is smart to have a smaller entrance so fewer bees could guard it. I think, the screen design needs to be chosen based on the needs of the hive. I would use screen with reduced entrance for weak, already robbing hive and David LaFerney construction with unrestricted entrance as a prophylactic on healthy hive. I have to admit that my "robbing" experience is limited to one case when I nearly lost the hive - the lesson is: if any suspicious regarding robbing, reduce the entrance to 2 bees first and than think... install screens ...ask on beesource ... whatever... 

Actually, my robbed hive survived - the hive was already weak and I gave them some brood and honey (mistake), which attracts the robbers. I was aware of robbers in first place and reduced the entrance but not enough. My bees fight with intruders nearly to the death BUT did not let them into the hive! When I finally noticed the problem and reduced entrance to 2-bees, it essentially stop fighting, but hive is very weak. Wish my really survivor bees quick recovery.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Here in the south robbing is a fact of life every summer. If you have big and small hives in the same location it can be especially bad. I have covered entrances with screen and punched a single pencil hole - one bee - and still had the nuc get robbed to death. The best thing is to have all strong hives of equal strength, and be very careful to not get it started. But that is easier said than done. The robbing screens work - even the one with a full sized entrance. On the other hand this isn't a bad year. Yet.


----------



## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I am making screens this weekend, thanks for all the help!


----------



## Belewsboy (Jun 6, 2012)

I've had a new nuc completely robbed out of its stores twice now. The girls have not requeened and I got tired of waiting. I read this thread last Wednesday and saw a glimmer of hope for my predicament. I went out and bought a Minnesota Hygenic Queen, brought her home and immediately built a robbing screen just like David LaFerney's description and picture. The only difference was I closed up the top with the exception of a 3/8 slot at one end for the entrance (like M. Bush's). It took the girls a good while to figure out how to get back in the hive, but they finally got it. Today when I got home, a different hive was orienting. There was a huge cloud of bees at the hive. The nuc with the screen had a lot of bees trying to rob it. I mean a lot and they were frantic to get inside. They were all gathered around the bottom of the hive at the main entrance trying to get in, but the screen would not let them. Inside the screen, guard bees were pacing back and forth on the outside wall of the nuc, but no robbers ever figured out how to get inside. I was amazed and impressed how well this simple idea took care of a problem I wasn't sure could be solved, short of relocating the nuc 3 miles away. My thanks David. I'll probably watch the action again tomorrow. It truly is amazing.


----------



## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

this is the inside of a robber screen that I built for nucs. the piece of wood at the bottom slides into the nuc entrance and holds it in place








This is one on a nuc


----------



## imthedude (Jan 28, 2013)

put some "W" shaped screens on 3 of my hives tonight. i sat and watched for a few minutes, and i'm pretty sure that they were all getting robbed a tiny bit tonight. i think that might explain why one of them, a swarm i caught on july 3rd, hasn't really built up solidly yet. also screened over a few gaps in the fit between deep and bottom board or deep and deep. hopefully this will help these guys defend their space a little better until i can get some real screens made.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I've had the robber screen on this nuc for several weeks now, so I'm pretty confident that those bees hanging around on the screen right in front of the entrance are robber/scouts.










Same thing goes for the ones nosing around the vent hole on the other end.

These have made a big difference in the way these small hives are able to build up and I think defend theirselves against hive beetles. If you are fighting off robbers you can't be corralling hive beetles or foraging for food. It seems to me that they just reduce one more source of stress on the hives. Since I have had good luck getting queens mated from nucs that are so equipped my next shop day will be spent making a bunch of itty bitty robber screens like this.


----------



## imthedude (Jan 28, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> These have made a big difference in the way these small hives are able to build up and I think defend theirselves against hive beetles. If you are fighting off robbers you can't be corralling hive beetles or foraging for food. It seems to me that they just reduce one more source of stress on the hives. Since I have had good luck getting queens mated from nucs that are so equipped my next shop day will be spent making a bunch of itty bitty robber screens like this.


do you find the top design to be more effective than a small piece of screen taped/stapled around the entrance? i fashioned my quick ones tonight after this model posted above, but if this style is just as effective as a proper wooden one, then i won't spend the time/resources making permanent wooden ones.


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I like simplicity of jeb532's design. Anyone else use that type of robber screen and can report on the results?


----------



## imthedude (Jan 28, 2013)

shinbone said:


> I like simplicity of jeb532's design. Anyone else use that type of robber screen and can report on the results?


i just "installed" 3 of those last night. i'll let you know in a few days how they are doing at keeping out the bad bees.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I have not tried that design so I can't really say - but it seems to conform to the general principle.

What I have tried is something like this - 










works fine.


----------



## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> Since I have had good luck getting queens mated from nucs that are so equipped my next shop day will be spent making a bunch of itty bitty robber screens like this.


Does that size mesh keep out SHB? Could you use a smaller mesh screen (like window screen) to keep the SHB out and still have adequate ventilation?


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Slow Modem said:


> Does that size mesh keep out SHB? Could you use a smaller mesh screen (like window screen) to keep the SHB out and still have adequate ventilation?


No it does not, they go right through it. It just happened to be what I had handy. You might notice that the wooden one just above actually uses window screen which does keep out hive beetles.

My equipment has evolved over time, and If I were building that nuc today I would use window screen over the vent, and also over the 2 3/4 bottom vent hole that you can't see. I don't know if those kinds of measures will keep out any hive beetles, but they might. I think it's worth trying.


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Echoing what Slow Modem said, I wonder if a robber screen could use a fine enough mesh to keep wax moth out as well as SHB, without impeding the hive's growth or honey production?


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Sure it can. Plenty of air flows through window screen wire. I have bottom boards and inner covers on some hives that use a double layer of window screen to trap SHB. The ventilation is fine, the jury is still out on the SHB trap, but the screen wire works fine as long as you aren't too rough with it.


----------



## Glen H (Aug 17, 2013)

I was in the process of making a frame for a screen and realized I did not have any #8 mesh or window screen. So I used a section of a Propolis screen. Will be able to make three robber screens from one screen.






Bees trying to figure out how to get back into hive.




Glen


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I did mine very similar to what was done by the OP (couple of years ago) I had the four hives here at house that I put them on and my bees must be not as coordinated because I had hundreds trying to find their way in on anything with a screen bottom board. I modified it the following year and cut almost the entire top off the screen and they worked better. This year I did not even bother to put them on and I know the Yellow jackets robbed out one of the hives here at the house. (not certain what I will find in my other locations).


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I have a mixture of screened and solid bottom boards, and by the end of this past season I had some kind of robber screens on almost all of them - a few very strong hives never did get one. A few related observations...

*Whenever* you put a robber screen on an established hive some confusion will ensue. A lot of foragers and hive activity will make it look pretty bad - all of those bees that can't figure out how to get in. And if it is also bearding season you might think that none of them are making it in because so many of them are on the outside of the hive. But they are, you just have to let them work it out. Screened bottom boards aggravate this somewhat, because they might hang out under the hive too.

If you start a new hive from scratch - a split or whatever - and install a robber screen right off the bat there will be no confusion whatsoever. They will orient and know from the beginning how to get in and out.

Queens fly out, mate and return to a hive with a robber screen just fine. If there is an increased failure rate it is below what I can detect.

I believe that during the summer and fall dearths a small amt of robbing happens even if you have robber screens on all hives - maybe bees that drift are able to rob from their previous address - but it isn't life threatening.

Hives with screened bottom boards are noticeably more robber proof than those with solids - I think because with the solid BB it is very clear to any would be robbers where the hive entrance is, but the smell coming out of the Screened BB baffles more of them. This is not really such a factor that it would make me change to SBBs, but maybe just something to consider.

Robber screens keep yellow jackets and other predators out as well as robbing honey bees.

Dead or *really* sick hives will get robbed out even if they have a robber screen in place. I don't know why or how - although I have some theories - but they do. The point being - don't count on robber screens to prevent the spread of mites and diseases from collapsing hives.

Robber screens work for me - they turned a very major problem into a minor nuisance - mostly just the fact that when you open hives to inspect or harvest honey robbing can get really fierce very quickly, but at least when you close everything back up it stops pretty quickly if your hives have robber screens. They have made it much more feasible to take care of nucs during late summer.


----------



## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks David. Those are some really good points to ponder.

I plan on trying my hand at woodworking this winter, and robber screens will definitely be on the list to try.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I plan to do some woodworking this winter too, and I have a simple idea that I plan to try.

If a robber screen is sized right it could be more or less permanently attached (w screws) flush with the lower edge of the hive body. Then when it is set on a bottom board a simple wooden entrance reducer like device could be used to block the gap so that the bees would have to go in and out through the robber screen. 

I say, *like* an entrance reducer because a standard wooden entrance reducer can't be installed to completely block the entrance - so my idea is for it to have a single reduced opening on one side only, and then when you flip it 90 degrees it would completely block the entrance. If the reduced entrance was only 1-2 bees big it would help train the bees to use the robber screen entrance, and would also be an effective mouse guard in the winter.

This way you could very easily close the entrance to activate the robber screen or open it to do for example an OA vapor treatment or whatever. Also you could completely close the bees in and they would still be able to get some air through the robber screen.


----------



## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I knew when they figured it out when one night it got cold (for here) and the next day cool and gloomy. All bees were inside the hive.


----------

