# Hives Died in less than a Day. Why?



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Without being sure of the causation I would be cautious of the honey. although the capped honey in and of itself may not have been exposed to whatever, the capping may have and extracting may contaminate it. until I was sure I would pass. 
I have used round up as a means of defoliating around my hives for many years with no problem. Now I do not spray during times of high traffic, but at nightfall so as to allow the roundup to dry. But I am not sure that makes a difference.

BTW Welcome to bee source Tim


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Are you sure what you sprayed was roundup and only roundup? Any strange odors present?Glyphosate (roundup) is pretty commonly used by beekeepers in just the manner you describe with no ill effects. I sat in on a presentation at the recent AHPA convention by a leading researcher who was lab testing most of the major Ag chemicals for bee toxicity and glyphosate was at the very bottom of the list. I wouldn't consume the honey until you have some handle on what killed these hives.


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

Roundup on its own is harmless for bees. Beekeepers spray right up to hives with no ill effects.
Could there have been residue from some other product in the sprayer?
Take a sample and send the bees to the lab for testing.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

A few close up shots of the dead bees and pupua may assist us in helping to provide a diagnosis. I personally am not familiar with a round up kill.

You did not mention how many bees were in the hive prior to the "kill." Update?

If this happens again and you have a chance to quickly bag and freeze them you can push them through the county ag system to have them tested. I doubt anyone there will rat you out if you have a hive or two in your back yard. 

Keep in mind it might not be Roundup.... Could be some 90 year old lady who just sprayed some off label stuff like DDT or "you name it" that she had sitting around her garage for the last 45 years.... In town there are lots of possible culprits. Unfortunately!!!!!!!!!!!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Preserve some samples and call your extension service. 
They wouldn't have had to climb into the yard to poison them. It could even have been accidental. But....I'd try to find out what got 'em.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

out of curiousity, does LA spray for mosquitoes? You mentioned you live on a street with only a wall between your lot and the street. 
It does sound like the hive MAY have been poisoned.


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## mrflegel (Mar 23, 2014)

sorry for your loss. Was'nt the round up.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

jonathan said:


> Roundup on its own is harmless for bees. Beekeepers spray right up to hives with no ill effects.
> *Could there have been residue from some other product in the sprayer?*
> Take a sample and send the bees to the lab for testing.


I would suspect this also due to the timing of the death of the colonies. I learned a long time ago that residue in a sprayer can cause big problems. Sometimes a simple rinse of the spray equipment is not enough to remove all of the previous chemicals. Dedicated equipment for some chemicals is very useful.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Spraying around the hive wouldn't kill it, regardless. To nuke the entire hive, a good portion of the bees have to be exposed.


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## Tim Keyes (May 9, 2013)

jonathan said:


> Roundup on its own is harmless for bees. Beekeepers spray right up to hives with no ill effects.
> Could there have been residue from some other product in the sprayer?
> Take a sample and send the bees to the lab for testing.


I thought about cross contamination in the sprayer. I don't use chemicals very often in my yard, generally only a boric acid bait for ants and Roundup once or twice a year to control the Bermuda grass in the garden. Roundup is about the only thing that goes in my sprayer. I wonder whether spraying the exterior of the hive with poison would kill everything in it?


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## Tim Keyes (May 9, 2013)

To answer the various questions; 
Both hives were quite active with lots of traffic in/out of the hive. Being near the beach in So Cal, the temps rarely get close to freezing. Having a year round bloom is the norm. The comb was packed with pollen. 

In my yard I try to be as chemical free as possible. A boric acid bait for the ants and roundup once or twice a year to control the invasive bermuda grass. 

The county vector control does not spray to any degree that I am aware of. 

If the hives were sprayed with poison how long would the effects last? Ants were going to town on the dead bees.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Tim Keyes said:


> I wonder whether spraying the exterior of the hive with poison would kill everything in it?


I really doubt that it would. If they died from poison it was either applied directly to the hive or picked up and brought back to the hive by foragers. In either case some sort of insecticide odor should persist among the dead bees.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Tim Keyes said:


> Last week I was on a community forum responding to a question of what to do about a swarm. ..... One of the people on the forum asked if I had bees. I didn't confirm nor deny that I had any. ..... I suspect that someone got over the wall and sprayed them.


I'm curious how the "someone" on the community forum might know where you live. Is there more behind your suspicion that someone was targeting your hives?


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Tim Keyes said:


> I thought about cross contamination in the sprayer. I don't use chemicals very often in my yard, generally only a *boric acid* bait for ants and Roundup once or twice a year to control the Bermuda grass in the garden. Roundup is about the only thing that goes in my sprayer. I wonder whether spraying the exterior of the hive with poison would kill everything in it?


Around here boric acid (powder form) is used to control roaches, ants and a few other pest insects. A pest control pro once told me that boric acid works by sticking to the feet of insects and taken into their colony or nest. Then it proceeds to dehydrate the insects and thereby kills them. I know this works on roaches, however, I have no idea if this applies to bees in any way.


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## Tim Keyes (May 9, 2013)

If someone knows your name it is pretty easy to find where you live. That these hives crapped out so rapidly after discussing bees publicly, coupled with human nature, tends to lead me to suspect ill will. The boric acid was used as bait stations. No bees went to it.Here is a photo of the dead hive.

Good News. I just opened the second hive and found a small ball of bees, so I might be able to save them.


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

Are there any stores in those combs? Hard to say looking up from the bottom but they look quite empty.
Also, all the visible capped cells are drone cells so maybe there was / is a failing queen.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Tim what happened certainly sounds like poisoning.

However I use roundup to keep around the hives weed free, when I spray most hives get some roundup on the landing board, the bottom part of the boxes, and over any bees that are flying at the time, it has no noticeable effect on the bees.

I only use a dedicated sprayer that has NEVER had anything in it other than roundup because it only takes the tiniest amount of some insecticide to do major damage to a hive if sprayed directly onto it.

Re your ball of bees, hope you succeed, it will be hard though there may be poison on the surrounding comb.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

jonathan said:


> Are there any stores in those combs? Hard to say looking up from the bottom but they look quite empty.
> Also, all the visible capped cells are drone cells so maybe there was / is a failing queen.


Agreed. If this hive was poisoned the dead bees (and brood) would have a wet, rotting, appearance with, probably, a few sickly looking late emerging bees crawling around and, again, a distinct accompanying pesticide smell. If there are no stores and the bees appear more dry and odorless then I would tend to think starvation.


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## Tim Keyes (May 9, 2013)

This photo is of the bottom of two boxes from one hive. The upper box is about 12" square, was about 1/3 honey and 1/3 pollen and yielded about 1.5 gal honey. That dead pile is probably < equal to what is on the ground. From the volume of dead bees I don't think there was anything wrong with the queen.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Thinking out of the box I would say this is a poisoning effect somehow.
In a short amount of time from a booming hive into an almost dead hive.
There maybe a poison spray out there somewhere close to the hive vicinity to cause this outcome.
Unfortunately, trying to figure out where is close to impossible since bees forage in all areas surrounding them.
How are you going to save the small cluster now? Are the comb also got poison on them along the nectar and pollen too?


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## Tim Keyes (May 9, 2013)

This is what I figure happened. The block wall is 6' on the street side plus it has a 3' wood extension on top. This extension has part of a plank missing almost centered between the two hives. Whoever did this, did it in the dark and had to reach up over the block. Being in a hurry they shot the can through the hole and hit the one hive but not the other. The hit hive died, the other may make it.
The only thing I did was to restrict the entrance. Hopefully this will prevent robbing. I am probably going to build a KTB and move the bees.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I would not reuse the nectar and pollen comb if poison is the suspect.
Also, move the hive out of the wall's way. And erect a 6' net extension from
the wall/fence end of it. This should give you some protection against any future
throwing objects. Some jeallow ppl out there.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it was intentional....unless there is more you haven't stated or I missed. It could be but, from your posts it doesn't seem so. The only effective way I can think of to get them directly would be for someone to get some spray insecticide, like a hornet and wasp killer and spray it directly into the hive entrances. If they did that....the smell would be strong and there'd be no doubt. On the other hand, a neighbor might spray Sevin on some flowering plants in their yard, blooms that your bees were working....and this is what you'd get.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

How are you neighbors? Any you don't get along with? Any of them know you have bees? Any dislike bees?

I would get a motion detector and a game camera.


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## newbury (Jul 19, 2014)

Tim KS said:


> <snip> I learned a long time ago that residue in a sprayer can cause big problems. Sometimes a simple rinse of the spray equipment is not enough to remove all of the previous chemicals. Dedicated equipment for some chemicals is very useful.


Dedicated well labelled sprayers are a must. My Grandfather nearly wiped out our apple orchard because of herbicide residue and he was to cheap to buy another sprayer.



FlowerPlanter said:


> <snip>
> I would get a motion detector and a game camera.


If you get a game camera make sure it has a quick reaction time. Many miss a moderately quick motion and take pictures of nothing.


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