# Oxalic Acid Vaporizer, which one do you use?



## Grins (May 24, 2016)

I use the Varrocleaner. Once I decided to use OAV as my primary means of mite control it seemed like the best compromise between cost and efficacy. I have only 2 hives, will jump to 4 this spring. It works well but it will singe wood the cup is in contact with and you can't dunk it to cool it off so there is a small wait between treatments. I found using it from the top works the best, less singing and melting of wax, which made me apprehensive about fire. I made shims for this purpose. I'm going into my second season so weight my comments accordingly.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Grins,

I also inoculate from the top and had the same burning problem. The solution to this problem is simple. Just secure a small block of wood on the inside of the shim just below the entry port for your vaporizer pan and cover it with sheet metal flashing. The metal will not burn and it helps to dissipate the intense heat. See pix.








Steve


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

Bear Creek Steve said:


> Grins,
> 
> I also inoculate from the top and had the same burning problem. The solution to this problem is simple. Just secure a small block of wood on the inside of the shim just below the entry port for your vaporizer pan and cover it with sheet metal flashing. The metal will not burn and it helps to dissipate the intense heat. See pix.
> View attachment 30814
> ...


Thanks Steve, I have done something similar that suspends the cup in mid air in the shim, it works well. I tried using mine from the bottom, it always seemed to melt some beeswax and mess the cup up, the top works much better. If I had 50 hives I'd invest in one with a blower that injects the vapor but I have lots of time and few hives and wonderful views.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

I use the Varrocleaner from Larry. I also have two cheaper units purchased from Ebay. The Varroacleaner is a quality unit and well worth the price. Burn time on this unit is 2 1/2 to 3 minutes and burn is complete with no residue. The two from Ebay (eastern Europe),are junk. Burn time on one is 15 minutes plus with residue left.Burn time on the other is over five minutes with residue left. I will be buying another unit from Larry later this spring. The two Ebay units can go to the landfill.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have the Heilsyer JB700. I wanted something faster than the single shot outfits. It can do three colonies per loading what I think is adequately. The unit will do sideliner quantities of hives but I do not know for how long. The construction is not robust. I know I got severe 'Vapor Envy' when I saw a video of the varrox units filling the whole area with a cloud of OA vapor. I am sure they do a more reliably good job but cost much more than my mid level tool.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

I have a Varrox unit that I bought from SNL here on BeeSource and highly recommend it. I've had it four years and bought a second one last season. I was afraid that if it failed for any reason I didn't want to be with out..A friend of mine bought one of tthe cheaper units on ebay and had to fix it within a month. The aligator clips were cheap and the solder joints failed plus the clips wernt large enough to go around a battery post, plus the cord wasn't very flexable and it was only about 5 feet long...The varrox units cord is 10 feet plus and the battery clips are big enough to fit the posts. All the electtrical connections are soldered and have heat shrink tube tto protect them. I use a lawn tractor battery thrown in a bucket with the vaporizor and a jar of OA crystals, it gets prety rough use and hasnt failed yet. The $40 bucks more is cheap if you don't have to fix it within the first month or wonder if its going to work when your going 40 miles to treat some hives for mites...JMHO 

==McBee7==


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I started with the Heilyser JB200 when I first got into OAV. It is a decent unit and works well, a good entry level vaporizer or good choice for someone with just a few hives.

Next unit, which I still use, is the Varrox. You will pay more for it, but it seems to be much more solid in it's construction and materials. 

Both work just fine. If you have a fair number of hives I would suggest spending a few extra dollars and getting the Varrox, just for the durability factor.

I can't comment an any of the other products, these are the only two I've used.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I use the ones I make. Having more than one makes things go faster. I also just started using the heat gun vape, and talk about getting it done!


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

I use the JB 700. 
This past round of treatments, I only had 33 hives to treat at 5 different locations. I preferred doing each hive separate this first go 'round. I added 3 grams to the tray, turned on the heat and when I saw vapor I would flip on the fan until I saw no more vapor (under a minute). Then I'd just re-load and do the next hive.


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## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

Varrox. By far the best wand out there.


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## nediver (May 26, 2013)

+1 for Varrox


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

nediver said:


> +1 for Varrox


Me too. Only thing I have used.


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## nediver (May 26, 2013)

Not to hijack thread, but does anyone treat from rear and if so how. 

I always do front and it has its challenges.


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

nediver said:


> Not to hijack thread, but does anyone treat from rear and if so how.
> 
> I always do front and it has its challenges.


I'd thought about making a 'back door' for the vaporizer, one the bees never used, in the bottom board. Once I decided to treat from the top the shim I use has the port on the rear and it's as easy as changing covers without the concern of melting wax. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who makes a rear port and treats from the bottom.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I made my own screened bottom boards for all of my hives with a 3/4" opening in the rear of the bottom board. Plenty of room to slide the vaporizer in on the tray "under" the screen and bees. Very easy to work right down the row of hives on the back side away from the bees in the front. The vapor works up through the screen into all the boxes very well.


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## Tim14167 (Oct 11, 2016)

I built my bottom boards with a back door with a hinge and lock for this reason.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

FYI: My picture in Post #3 above is of a 4" high shim with a slot for the Varrox pan and an aluminium covered "shelf" for the pan to rest on, all of which is on the top at the back side of the hive. I made three of these shims so I am continuously prepping the next two colonies down the line ahead of the one that is"cooking". The colony in the photograph is covered all four sides with 2" purple foam which I have to drop down to get access for the mid-winter "cook", but it is held in place with a bungie cord. Like Michael Bush says "Everything works if you make it".

Steve


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## Jim Hancock (Dec 30, 2016)

If you're using a screened bottom board why couldn't you put the vaporizer under the hive? Am i missing something?


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Jim,

If your question is directed toward me, in the winter my bees are normally high in the hive and the vaporization takes place right above their cluster and hopefully has a maximum V-mite kill effect. The uppermost bees are coated white from the vapor. i should note that I run open upper and lower entrances together with an open, but restricted SBB year round. I dislike v-mites.

Steve


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## Cottonwood (Apr 16, 2013)

I purchased the ProVap 110 Sideliner/Commercial Vaporizrest from Larry. Have only had the opportunity to use it on four hives because didn't receive until December and hives got buried in snow. I found the unit very easy to use and fairly fast to vaporize the OA. The unit is easy to "recharge" between hives which saves a lot of time when doing multiple hives. I used the recommended method of drilling a 1/4 inch hole in the back of the hive. Working from the rear of the hives is a plus. The unit worked well on the four hives I did. I will have a better opinion when I use it more.


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## Jim Hancock (Dec 30, 2016)

Bear Creek Steve said:


> Jim,
> 
> If your question is directed toward me, in the winter my bees are normally high in the hive and the vaporization takes place right above their cluster and hopefully has a maximum V-mite kill effect. The uppermost bees are coated white from the vapor. i should note that I run open upper and lower entrances together with an open, but restricted SBB year round. I dislike v-mites.
> 
> Steve


It was just a general question since I'm new at this. I'm reading where some are treating by sliding the vaporizer in the entrance and burning the boards or melting wax and some are using SBB on their hives or adding a door in the rear for the vaporizer. Does the vapor fall down through the hive If you treat from the top? I re-read some of the posts and I see where Mike does treat below the SBB. 
The more I read the more I'm amazed any bees survive all the mites and diseases that affect them.


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## Farmercal (May 19, 2015)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I made my own screened bottom boards for all of my hives with a 3/4" opening in the rear of the bottom board. Plenty of room to slide the vaporizer in on the tray "under" the screen and bees. Very easy to work right down the row of hives on the back side away from the bees in the front. The vapor works up through the screen into all the boxes very well.


 Mike, I use a varrox and treat the exact same way. I didn't want to chance melting any wax.


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## larrypeterson (Aug 22, 2015)

If I may,

Last year I started making all my bottom boards with a 4-1/4 inch rear opening and then plug it with a slide in with a handle outside. I now just close the entrances, pull out the rear plug and sneak the Vorrox in and out before they know I was there. I don't have to get in front of the hive either. 

Best wishes, LP


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

*Jim,*

i believe I have read from "Larry" the proprietor of OxyVap (dot) com that the vapor is heavy and thus will settle or "fall" down through the hive and pass over any bees below. From a physics standpoint, when initially vaporized at high temperature the vapor is hot and will collect in the upper part of the hive. However as it cools I believe it will be heaver than air and will "sink" or settle downward within the hive. It is also true that there will be some convective air flow perhaps forcing it upward if you have both lower and upper open entries. So I'm not sure, but perhaps Larry will come in on this discussion.

*Cottonwood:* 

Question for you or perhaps "Larry": Does the ProVap 110 model cool down sufficiently between inoculations for "re-charging" or do you need to chill it in a bucket of water like the VARROX ?

Thanks,
Steve


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Larry,

I'm also in the process of making all new bottomboards, (SBBs) Would you be willing to include a photo or two of your design for us all to see? Your idea sounds great, especially before I have the last 10 glued and screwed.

Thanks,
Steve


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## Cottonwood (Apr 16, 2013)

Bear Creek Steve said:


> *Jim,*
> 
> i believe I have read from "Larry" the proprietor of OxyVap (dot) com that the vapor is heavy and thus will settle or "fall" down through the hive and pass over any bees below. From a physics standpoint, when initially vaporized at high temperature the vapor is hot and will collect in the upper part of the hive. However as it cools I believe it will be heaver than air and will "sink" or settle downward within the hive. It is also true that there will be some convective air flow perhaps forcing it upward if you have both lower and upper open entries. So I'm not sure, but perhaps Larry will come in on this discussion.
> 
> ...


Bear Creek Steve
The unit is designed so it does not need to cool down between doses. You can use it almost immediately after completing a dose. Larry has a video on his web site that shows the unit in use. Because you don't have to "reheat" the unit every time, the process of treating multiple hives is much faster.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Bear Creek Steve said:


> i believe I have read from "Larry" the proprietor of OxaVap (dot) com that the vapor is heavy and thus will settle or "fall" down through the hive and pass over any bees below. From a physics standpoint, when initially vaporized at high temperature the vapor is hot and will collect in the upper part of the hive. However as it cools I believe it will be heaver than air and will "sink" or settle downward within the hive. It is also true that there will be some convective air flow perhaps forcing it upward if you have both lower and upper open entries. So I'm not sure, but perhaps Larry will come in on this discussion.


You are correct. In cooler weather, the vapor will tend to drop. However, there is enough vapor flowing into the hive that most (if not all) surfaces get covered. Then of course, the bees fan it around.
The ProVap110 is always hot and does not cool down between hives. As you are not placing the OA into the PV110 (by tapping the lid once the stem is in the hive) it does not vaporize outside the hive as would the Varrox or other wand type vaporizers. Look again at the video on the website.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Cittonwood & SNL,

Thanks for the response. I believe that other BeeSource beeks will benefit from the Q/A.

Steve


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Larrypeterson,

I may have created some confusion with two people named "Larry". Peterson, can you post a photo of your design of the " bottom boards with a 4-1/4 inch rear opening and then plug it with a slide in with a handle outside" as mentioned in Post # 24 above ? It sounds like an interesting idea and I may be at a point in the construction of new bottom boards where I can incorporate your concept. 

Thanks, Steve


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I've used both the Varrox and the ProVap. The Provap is relatively new to me, and I've done about a dozen treatments so far with excellent results. Both the Varrox and the Provap come with instructions. I would gently suggest to not over think things - just follow the instructions and you will get good results. OAV has been done in Europe for decades, no need to reinvent the wheel, unless, of course, you like doing that sort of thing, and I know everyone is free to tinker with their hives however they want. For myself, time is the bottle neck, and so I don't spend time on anything I don't have to. I think the highly paid Harvard MBAs call it "de-bottlenecking."

I slide the Varrox in through the front entrance and seal with a rag. My hives sit low on the bottom board, meaning the frame bottoms are closer than most hives to the Varrox pan. The bottom of the frames directly above the pan will get slightly blackened, but otherwise no harm is done. I've never had any melted wax. I've killed lots of mites. Super easy to do. I don't lose hives to mites anymore. People can make special bottom boards, shims, trapdoors, etc. but such are not needed for safety or efficacy.

The Provap is even easier to use. I drilled a 1/4" hole in the back of each hive, and slide the Provap nozzle through that and into the hive. Since I am at the back of the hive, I don't even need to wear my bee suit when OAVing. The hole is plugged with a 1/4" dowel when not in use 

For both application tools, there are lots of frames and burr comb and leaks and breezes and fanning bees and cooling vapor and condensing vapor, etc., etc., so, while the theory of air flow of a heated vapor in a closed chamber might be interesting, real world effects dominate to make it pretty much unpredictable exactly how the OA will move through the hive. Except to say that it does. Yes, you won't get 100% perfectly uniform coverage into every nook and cranny throughout the hive, but following the simple instructions will allow you to kill something like 97% of the phoretic mites with one application. 

JMHO




.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Thanks Shinbone. 
You put our feet back on the ground.

Steve


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## gtwarren1966 (Jul 7, 2015)

Tim14167 said:


> Which one does everyone use to apply the Oxalic Acid?
> What are the pros and cons of each ones?
> Thanks


Heilyser JB200

Pros-Fast
High Quality
Cons-none other than it is a bit pricey but you have to pay for quality


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I use the new ProVap110, but I'm biased.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Ya well I use my own cheap band heater vaporizer and have been doing numerous tests with vaporizers, and I have to tell you there is vapor and then there is vapor. Some of the vapor from vaporizers are quite heavy and do not spread as much I think that the particle size is larger than other vapors. I did tests with empty hive boxes 2 high with a glass top so as to see the spread of vapor. I have often wondered why some treatments do not appear to be effective and I have come to the conclusion that it all depends on the spread of the vapor inside of the hive, hence my many tests. when I did tests with the band heater type of vaporizer that is preheated before use and the desired dose applied to the hot device which has a small 3/16" outlet the vapor particle is very small and spreds throughout the hive and will be seen to be leaking from any cracks and gaps unlike what I see when vaporizing with wands. 
Johno


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## larrypeterson (Aug 22, 2015)

Bear Creek Steve,

I will answer your question as soon as I find my camera and take some pictures of the rear entrance plugs. It may take a bit of time 'cause I'm an old man and I don't rush anything. I am not ignoring you, I just want to do a decent job of explaining and demonstrating. Best wishes, LP


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Varrox from the top using a feeder shim. 
Wish I had two.


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

Another Varrox here.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

I bought Alison the Varrox unit for Christmas after seeing it so highly recommended.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Larrypeterson: I think that I can visualize your bottom board from your word description. I understand what old is, I'm pushing 8X10.

aunt betty: Don't you have a good neighbor with a table saw? Shims are easy to make.

Steve


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

I use the Varrox and have been very happy with it. Just bought the provap 110 sideliner a couple of weeks ago but haven't used it yet. I got it to speed things along.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

aunt betty said:


> Varrox ........ Wish I had two.


All it takes to get the 2nd is a visit to OxaVap.com and of course a credit card!


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Vance G said:


> I have the Heilsyer JB700. I wanted something faster than the single shot outfits. It can do three colonies per loading what I think is adequately. The unit will do sideliner quantities of hives but I do not know for how long. The construction is not robust. I know I got severe 'Vapor Envy' when I saw a video of the varrox units filling the whole area with a cloud of OA vapor. I am sure they do a more reliably good job but cost much more than my mid level tool.


I have been sorely disappointed with the JB700. Do not recommend it


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5v2XdgUwnCE


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Ian, did you drill holes in the back of the hive and do you seal it with this vaporizer?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

camero7 said:


> Ian, did you drill holes in the back of the hive and do you seal it with this vaporizer?


I have not decided what to do yet, 
Likely I'll just blow it into the front of the hive as I did with the VM


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## alfred westlake (May 16, 2008)

I have made my own Band heater Style vaporizer. I used to use a homade try style one. It worked ok but it was slow. The new band heater one that I have made works great!


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