# Formic Pro versus Apivar



## Demslander (Apr 27, 2015)

So here's my current situation.
I am currently running 35 hives in MN. I pulled supers off last weekend and checked mite levels yesterday. In my yards I have the following mite levels: 1, 2, 12, 6, and 2.
When I pulled the supers I put an empty super on to allow for room and any goldenrod that may come in. My original plan was to go into winter with 2 deeps and a super because I mistakenly thought you could do oxalic with supers on and I figured that goldenrod can be a bust so if I got any great, let the bees have it, if not no big deal. Now it looks like the super will have to come off anyway. Which IA a separate issue. 

I bought Formic Pro thinking that my Temps would go down, which they will be early next week, but they are still in the higher limits of the treatment. I also have been reading about queen loss etc. So then I started looking into apivar, which has better temperature ranges but you can't treat with supers on. My other main concern is my top deep is pretty full of honey already. So if I remove the super the bees will beard badly and may be a late season swarm. 

I keep going back and forth on what to do. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks!


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## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

Demslander said:


> I mistakenly thought you could do oxalic with supers on


You didn’t mistake anything, you can treat OAV with your honey supers on, and that’s exactly what I would do. If you want to dribble do it after golden rod flow, but vaporization, you can do with no effects to honey.


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## Marcin (Jun 15, 2011)

GFWestTexas said:


> You didn’t mistake anything, you can treat OAV with your honey supers on, and that’s exactly what I would do.


Has the label been updated? Can you point me towards info on that.


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## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

Marcin said:


> Has the label been updated? Can you point me towards info on that.


Here you go they have the EPA write up on this thread. Hope it helps








The EPA will allow OA to be used with honey supers present.
 

Effective Feb 23rd 2021 the EPA will be removing the restrictions for using OA with honey supers present. As someone who's gotten some serious flack in my previous threads, illustrating the extremely small quantities of OA that would enter honey, I think this is an interesting development...




www.beesource.com


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

GFWestTexas said:


> Here you go they have the EPA write up on this thread. Hope it helps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They will allow it but the new labels to that effect are not on most of the product that is on the shelves. Now if you have past history of off label usage of bee treatments, you might want to keep your nose squeeky clean in following the letter of the law rather than the intent of the law.


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## Demslander (Apr 27, 2015)

crofter said:


> They will allow it but the new labels to that effect are not on most of the product that is on the shelves. Now if you have past history of off label usage of bee treatments, you might want to keep your nose squeeky clean in following the letter of the law rather than the intent of the law.


Any idea where I can buy it with the correct label so I can leave the super on? Also, which one would you do in the meantime, formic or apivar?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Demslander said:


> I bought Formic Pro thinking that my Temps would go down, which they will be early next week, but they are still in the higher limits of the treatment. I also have been reading about queen loss etc. So then I started looking into apivar, which has better temperature ranges but you can't treat with supers on. My other main concern is my top deep is pretty full of honey already. So if I remove the super the bees will beard badly and may be a late season swarm.


I usually pull my honey early to mid-July. This year I am WOEFULLY behind and will be pulling it Friday. When I pull honey I'm done with supers for the year (I run triple deeps) whatever they put away in the fall is theirs. I rearrange deep frames in order to keep everything at the right weights (nucs or other struggling colonies). There hasn't been much of a window down here in Iowa where I'd have been OK putting MAQS/Formic Pro on this summer either. Miserably hot!

I think Mann Lake sells labeled OA, but I could be wrong.


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## SeaCucumber (Jun 5, 2014)

This study (Dr Frank Rinkevich) suggests that Amitraz (Apivar) is more effective in the spring.
Perhaps formic now. Randy Oliver uses Apiguard once they don't need more brood.
Please do my fall treatment polls.

regular
for getting TF


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## Akademee (Apr 5, 2020)

Apivar is my go-to, just make sure it is fresh and factory sealed. Once you open the package, the reactions start for all of the strips, you can't store or freeze them once opened. Oxalic acid is great too. I have not used the Formic Pro since I had a lot of issues with queen loss with MAQS. You only need to really pay attention to temps for Formic for the first 3-4 days of treatment, that is when the majority of the acid is released at the highest dosage. If it it gets too hot, it can cause the dosage to be much higher than recommended, but after the 4th or 5th day, there isn't enough formic to cause problems due to temp.


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