# Favorite Ways to Make Increase: Why & How?



## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

There are obviously many ways to increase bee/colony numbers. This coming Spring I will hopefully be able to make increase with some hives I already have. I'm thinking walk-away splits right now because it is simple. However, I have a colony that I would like to make queens from, and I'm not so confident in that arena yet. Experience is the best teacher. Any suggestions or pointers on other techniques, and why you do them would be greatly appreciated and even considered. Thanks.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I don't have the experience to have a favorite or even to tell you which way is best under differing scenarios but.......

If I where you I would drive down to central Florida with a big wad of cash and buy some.

If I was me living where you live I would try couple different ways that appealed to me.
At slightly different times. I would make sure I used a calendar and help back plenty of resources for a safety net.

Walk away splits let don't leave them Open brood to make a queen from and feed them a frame of eggs/ brood from hive you want the queen made from. One frame a week if your not real confident.

Queen cells... Buy or try to graft/ pull from your stock

Buy mated queens ....split the order between two or three vendors ordering queens is like a box of chocolate even from reputable folks


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## bsharp (Feb 5, 2013)

I'm planning to do splits next spring, but since I only have 4 hives I plan to order a few different queens from different places to get some more variety in the gene pool in my area. I'm also planning to buy a nuc or two and use them to start other nucs to overwinter as described by this post in this thread.

I don't really have the spare drawn comb to feed an increase as described, but the discussion in that thread is super interesting, and I'm going to give it a shot. I plan to breed my own queens from my best hives to put into the nucs I make midsummer...we'll see how it goes!


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Talon, with just a few hives the best way for you is going to be (IMO) buy a cpl queens and make a 2-3 frame split. Walk away splits can be fine buy you have to be prepared that about 25% are going to be queenless or inferior. Buy a cpl queens and take 2-3 frames from a strong hive and let them go.


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## flhultra (Jun 14, 2013)

first year for me so nothing proven yet, bought a package , caught a swarm and one cutout I now have 7 hives.
not enough honey this year to rob, but I did make a few increases.
1st found a queen cell almost capped, removed old queen and a couple frames =2
the swarm catch turned out to be super hot. took the queen off that frame(freshest eggs) put her and a couple other frames in another box(walk away) old queen was superseded and both hives are a lot calmer than the original one=4
found mother / daughter in original catch a month later also a couple other frames in another box=5
just shook out of my strongest and hive and fresh eggs (walk away #2 )=6
cut out queen left with around half the bees. but they used egg from the cutout, I got lucky =7


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

I like GM's Idea for someone who does not know how to raise multiple queens yet.

Walk away splits are shaky. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

if you have access to queens you can make 3 frame splits and have a really high take as long as you don't rush the introduction process.


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

You are not too far from where I live in TN. I think I know where Pleasant Shade is.
Unless you just want to split in the spring you can let your hives make a honey crop, order queens for the first part of July then do your splits. They will build fine before winter. Even the three frame splits will build up good.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

for small apiaries and to get the best balance between increase, honey crop, and swarm prevention I think the 'cut down split' as described by mike bush makes good sense.


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## scorpionmain (Apr 17, 2012)

I have been thinking about increases as well.
I am going into my 3rd year of doing this, so I am still learning too; after watching M. Palmer's presentation on the sustainable apiary I am going to go that route.
Make nucs to support my production hives and as resources to make more.

My plan is:
Nucs this year & maybe try grafting the year after.


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## Hokie Bee Daddy (Apr 1, 2011)

I agree with GM Charlie. I've used this method the last three years and split hives successfully. The only thing I do different is I take the old queen with the split and introduce the new queen into the existing hive. This way I get a fresh young queen to raise a lot of bees for honey collection. I have lost a new queen each year doing this though so I'm perfecting the technique.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

gmcharlie said:


> Talon, with just a few hives the best way for you is going to be (IMO) buy a cpl queens and make a 2-3 frame split.


That's great or you can go cheaper and do the splits with cells (if you've someone close you can buy them from)...


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Talon, I recommend you watch the video at "http://www.honeyshow.co.uk/lectures.shtml" from Michael Palmer. I can tell you that it works, and will help you to grow your yard. Just buy some good queens since I think you don't raise queens yet like me. I'll give a shout out for Velbert Williams in that area. I like his queens.


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

Get on a swarm list, and catch some.


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

I also agree with GM Charlie. Last year and so far this year, I have made splits down in Florida from three frames of brood, pollen and honey and two empty frames. In the groves, I put queen cells. In south Florida I put mated queens. Success was better than 80%.


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## Laurence Hope (Aug 24, 2005)

I do 2-3 frame nucs with mated purchased queens (I hope to soon try some of my own.) The timing of growth to either full nucs, poss for sale, or full hives seems to fit my scheduling for need.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

If you have a few hives to work with and you want to learn about queen rearing without jumping all in you can use a simple queenless cell starter/finisher like this and then if you don't want to graft you can feed it frames of brood from your favorite queen every week. Then after they build queen cells on it (they always will) you can use that frame to establish a nuc. You can use the same 5 frame cell starter over and over as long as you maintain it every week. And when you are finished with it just give it a cell or one last frame of brood and let it raise a queen for itself.

You will learn how to maintain a starter/finisher and how to set up and care for mating nucs while making some increase - with good to excellent queens - as long as the season lasts. And you can start cells in it using any method - grafting, OTS, cell punch, or by Oldtimers excellent no graft method.

BTW, because their development is never interrupted by a trip through the mail you can often end up with better queens than you can buy using a simple system like this - as long as you don't push it too hard.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

I intend to try using swarm control splits to increase my hive count next year.

Its basically the same as a walk away split, only you are intentionally letting a hive get to the point where it tries to swarm. Once you see swarm cells, you make the split and cut the number of queen cups down to two or three. Means they should have a queen much faster than if you did a straight split when they weren't trying to make a split themselves. Its a little more dangerous because obviously if you don't time it right, they're going to swarm and you're just going to lose the bees entirely (if you don't have swarm traps set up to catch them).

Which is why I'm going to have a couple of swarm traps set up as well, just in case.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

My favorite way to increase is for someone else to buy me bees... *grins* 

Short of that, I prefer to make splits a little on the weaker side. It may not work in your area, but I buy and/or raise queens in advance. Find the hive which I think is not doing as well as the others, but has enough resources to split. I.e. I'd want to requeen this hive anyway.

Then I will take inventory of the resources and make equal'ish splits. I place the "weakest" of the splits at the original hive location. As it will pick up the returning foragers. Generally, I will either squash the queen or make sure that she's in her own nuc and not the original location. You generally don't have to worry about her, but I like to make sure that all my splits have eggs. In case something goes awry. I place feeders on all the splits..

Come back and check them in a week to make sure the queen is out/laying and to knock down any cells they might have made..

You may want to to squash her anyway, but sometimes I find that queens will pick up steam when they have been removed from the original hive/fed...


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

My favorite way to make increase (as opposed to most reliable) is collecting swarms.

There is something awe-inspiring in watching thousands of bees parade into the box.

Swarm trapping where there are few managed hives and mostly unmanaged/wild colonies that have been on their own for several years often yields bee colonies that thrive enough to reproduce without being treated.

Beyond that, frames with swarm cells are a signal to me to make splits -- there's enough forage around that the bees are booming, and if they're drawing swarm cells, they'll swarm without some intervention, anyway.

Next in order of favoritism for me is successfully raising some queen cells and doing splits.

For efficient multiplication of hive numbers, rather than pure enjoyment, just reverse the order of preference above


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think genetic diversity is very important. That's what I like about walk away splits. Each colony continues its genetic line instead of me bottlenecking it with a lot of sister queens I grafted.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

I should have mentioned why I prefer to supply the queen (grafted or purchased or even a swarm cell) in my experience that 3-4 weeks queen less is so hard on a nuc or new startup, they don't do well by fall. They do good at foraging for a few weeks, but then when the new Larva need fed they dwindle, as hive population has dropped. Much like a package, be with a even smaller population.

Giving them a queen to start with has increase the viability of these come fall by a huge factor in my experience. walk aways for me have not had good successes.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I agree on the queen from the start, but if I don't have one. I prefer to drop one or two queen cells in the hive. These are made up 10 days prior and ready to emerge on the day I make my splits.

You need to get your timing down and be prepared to work regardless of the weather, but I find that the cells in a "weak'ish" split work fine. With that said, if I have my mating nucs running. I'll grab a laying queen any day of the week over the risk of using a cell.


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

I've done walk-away splits, because they are very easy. You need to keep them relatively strong in order to get good queens.

I've made nucs with 1 swarm cell and couple of frames of brood, because once you see cells you pretty much have to or you'll lose the majority of the work force.

I've also used OldTimer's cut cell method and I love it.

I think it comes down to what you're comfortable with.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

My first year I did 50/50 and 33/33/33 walk away splits 2 out of 8 did not make a queens and 1 did not make a queen the second time. But the rest turned to be strong hives. These are very easy.

My second year I did about 10 cut down splits, I must have got lucky and all made queens the first time. It can take some time to find the queens. One hive she evaded me and I had to come back a different day and find her.

I think I am going with cut down splits again, I like 4 frames cut down splits they seemed to build the quickest. 

If you want to build your numbers swarm traps and swarm calls can get you lots of free bees quickly.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

merince said:


> I've also used OldTimer's cut cell method and I love it.


What is his cut cell method?


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

There's a link to OldtTimer's method in post 16. Very good c/w excellent photos, however, long thread.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

FlowerPlanter said:


> My first year I did 50/50 and 33/33/33 walk away splits 2 out of 8 did not make a queens and 1 did not make a queen the second time. But the rest turned to be strong hives. These are very easy.


Because of hive beetles I don't try a second time anymore - instead I combine them back in and build a new split from new resources, and put it back in the same spot. That way it gets stronger instead of weaker because of the retained foragers, and you don't have to worry about laying workers. 80% success is pretty good anyway.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I put in a fresh frame of wireless foundation in my good hive (jay Smith Better Queens http://bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm
When it gets drawn and eggs in it I put that frame into a queenless nuc with lots of bees. I crimp under the frame with my hive tool. I will generally get 4-8 queen cells on that frame. When they are capped I cut the queen cells out with a knife and place them into a queen castle (deep split with 3 dividers) with 2 frames of bees each (add a couple of frames from the original hive I am now to 8 frames of bees from the original hive. I now have 4 shots at getting a queen bred (rather than a single try in the walk away method). Any queen not bred gets frames combined with the one along side of it. I do it twice a year.


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

I had a nuc rigged with shallow to raise queens per Mike Bush's info. I've become adverse to spending more on bees than honey and prefer locally acclimated stock over those from far far away. After reviewing Mike's bee math, it dawned on me, I didn't need or want a dozen queens and the development time is the same for all queens. For the few hives I desired to add and now to replace winter losses, his walk away splits are the least work from scratch. After that, I visit the hives during the typical swarming season and raid frames with queen cells into single deeps. Then, there is always the perfect swarm that clusters just high enough off the ground to roll under a single deep hive on my son's radio flyer wagon.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

Wow,
Thanks a lot folks. I'm going to start posting more questions on here from now on. The wealth of ideas is amazing. I wish I had enough colonies to try them all off the bat. Maybe in the future perhaps. I can say that I'm leaning towards the idea of making three frame splits when queen cells are capped, and putting a queen cell in each split. It's cheaper than buying queens, it maintains local populations, and I'm leery of buying queens from people I don't know (networking is obviously needed). I may even try raising some myself with the Hopkins method. Thanks again for all the input.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you do your splits two weeks before the main flow, the odds of getting queens mated well are high and the queenless side of the split usually makes a honey crop as they aren't busy raising brood. Timing is everything...


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

TalonRedding said:


> Wow,
> Thanks a lot folks. I'm going to start posting more questions on here from now on. The wealth of ideas is amazing. I wish I had enough colonies to try them all off the bat. Maybe in the future perhaps. I can say that I'm leaning towards the idea of making three frame splits when queen cells are capped, and putting a queen cell in each split. It's cheaper than buying queens, it maintains local populations, and I'm leery of buying queens from people I don't know (networking is obviously needed). I may even try raising some myself with the Hopkins method. Thanks again for all the input.


Just incase you might be interested.There is a man in Baxter Tn. Ridge Top Apiaries who raises VSH & Proline queens and sells them at a reasonable price. But you have to order ahead of the time when you will need them. I got a few of his queens last summer and so far they seem to be doing good. BTW He was recommended by the state inspector. Recommended is probably not the right word but the inspector did say he had a good operation.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> If you do your splits two weeks before the main flow, the odds of getting queens mated well are high and the queenless side of the split usually makes a honey crop as they aren't busy raising brood. Timing is everything...


Thanks for that great reminder. Our main flow is usually around mid to late April here in this part of TN. What is your opinion on 2 and 3 frame splits?


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

sterling said:


> Just incase you might be interested.There is a man in Baxter Tn. Ridge Top Apiaries who raises VSH & Proline queens and sells them at a reasonable price. But you have to order ahead of the time when you will need them. I got a few of his queens last summer and so far they seem to be doing good. BTW He was recommended by the state inspector. Recommended is probably not the right word but the inspector did say he had a good operation.


I was not aware of this. I looked at Mikes website. I will look into it further. Thanks for the info!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i have done a few splits just before the main as mb describes. main flow here begins with the opening of the tulip poplar blooms, two weeks before is when the buds for these blooms are developing. i had good luck with removing the queen and three frames of bees. the parent hives were left strong and made good queens, and the splits grew quickly and some yielded a crop. the parent hive will store nectar in the broodnest until the new queen is laying, and will then move that honey up into the supers. my parent hives didn't yield more honey than others that weren't split, but roughly the same amount.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> What is your opinion on 2 and 3 frame splits? 

They aren't strong enough to raise a good queen. They aren't strong enough to build up quickly. The are just right for a mating nuc...


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I need to point out that my 2 frame split is for mating only! The queen cells are cut from a nuc pounded full of bees in a frame of freshly drawn foundation. The queen cells are just there to be mated, not to be built. It is like a walk away split but the foundation is newly drawn (jay smith) and since they are separated the emerging queens are not running around wasting all their energy killing 8 others.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

thank you, MB, for giving me a timeline...2 weeks before the main flow. Next question is, if I don't have any tulip poplar (as mentioned by squarepeg) to gauge the "main flow", what would be another tree or bush to use as a guide? The local bee club tells me to get the honey supers on by Feb 5 for our area, which is in advance of the main flow. So could I use that date as the time to make my splits in Hampton Roads, VA?

I'm also wanting to try the 2 queen hive as described in MB's book for my TBH hive that isn't yet full. http://www.bushfarms.com/beestwoqueenhive.htm Is the timing for this still 2 weeks before the main flow, or would it happen sooner, since the reasoning behind this is to combine the 2 hives by the time the main flow rolls around so one hive has tons of worker bees?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Is the timing for this still 2 weeks before the main flow, or would it happen sooner, since the reasoning behind this is to combine the 2 hives by the time the main flow rolls around so one hive has tons of worker bees? 

The goal if you want a large honey crop, is a large number of foragers. By depriving a colony of brood (and/or the queen who would be laying the brood) you cause emerging bees to be recruited for foraging. If you combine two colonies, of course, you double the forages (all things being equal). The idea of a two queen hive is that they can raise a lot more brood. This needs to happen at least three weeks before the main flow in order for any of that additional brood to emerge so it can become forages for the flow.


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