# Anybody has Jackson Horizontal hive plans or dimensions?



## sqkcrk

Why don't you just expand a standard Langstroth type brood box out until it is wide enuf to hold what frames you wish. You'll have to keep the front to back dimension so the frames will hang correctly.

You'll still want the heigth the same, so burr comb isn't build on top of the frames. And if the bees build sideways like you plan, the bottom should be fine too.

Try it. What's to loose? then it will be the pascopol design.


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## pascopol

Yea, I was thinking about doing something like this. But I want it to be TBH not extended Lang, so I will either have to custom make top bars with frames, or use standard deep body frames with dividers to keep bees under the bars preserving TBH idea of working bees disturbing only one frame at the time.


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## sqkcrk

And the difference is...? What?


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## pascopol

What difference?


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## Paul McCarty

My two hives are wooden Jackson style hives. Basically they are just boxes sized to fit lang deep frames or top bars interchangeably. The biggest difference is they do not use a rabbeted frame rest and use a section of wooden dowel instead. At least mine do. very simple to make. Mine have 3/8" entrance holes on the end - about 6-8 of them, and I got fancy and added a partially screened bottom. My next ones I think I will leave off the screened bottom. Not sure how useful they really are.

Mine fit 40 frames.

I would really like to see how they ride out the New Mexico winter before I recommend them to anyone else. It's basically a Tanzanian hive with dowel supports for the frames / top bars. Top bars work well with it but my bees like to attach them to the floor. Foundationless frames are easier.


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## pascopol

Could you post a picture of "section of wooden dowel" please?

Also are the doweled frames easier to make?

I want to try TBH with foundation less frames before I go foundationless with my Langs.

I hope Jackson Hive will do OK in Fl winter.


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## Paul McCarty

Jackson hives are a South African design, so I suppose they should do well in a Florida winter. they use a dowel mostly to simplify construction. Basically a big box with 1" inch dowel rod to hang your frames on, at least that's what mine are. The dowels also have the benefit of giving pests less of a place to hide, at the expense of wide bee space near the walls. I have not found it to be a problem, though it's my first year with them. The biggest problem is anchoring the dowels so they do not sag with the heavy weight of the combs.










I went with this style because it was easy to build, and it seems less disruptive to the bees when you mess around with them. My friends Langs are much more disruptive.


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## sqkcrk

Yet portable. You certainly aren't going to move that thing when full. Not alone anyway.

Why wouldn't you just use a square rod stapled to the inside of the box to hang the frames? That would be alot easier to put stapels threw w/out damaging a rod beyond use.


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## tommyt

Here is what I thought Pascopo when you asked about Dowel









Also Paul McCarty
You say the dowel is too hold the frames and gives pest LESS of a place to hide 
I would think being rounded the shb's would be able to hide in the () role easier 
but this is JMHO I have no hive like you mention
I have actually considered what Pascopol is asking was called a trough hive? 
I believe BjornBee' of Pennsylvania has some as does Michel Bush

Tommyt


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## Paul McCarty

The real Jackson hives are simply using dowel rods stuck through the plastic out of simplicity I think . My hives are an abomination of sorts. I was attracted to this type of style because it gives no corners for pests to hide in that the bees can't get to, and less of a footprint for the bees to glue the frames down, (and lack of access to a good router with unused dowels on hand being another factor). Portability is not a big benefit, that's for sure, but then neither are most other top bar styles.


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## tommyt

Paul
My lights just went on!!
Your dowels are not up against the side walls are they??
This would, in my mind and as you stated give less or no place for the 
Pests to hide
I had envisioned the dowel stapled down the side as a frame rest.

Learning every day 

Tommy


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## sqkcrk

Then where are they? Suspended like Filing Cabinet File Frames? I can't picture what it could look like.


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## tommyt

Suspended like Filing Cabinet File Frames?

Thats what I NOW am thinking

Tommyt


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## Paul McCarty

I guess they are kinda' like filing cabinet frames, except for the little support in the middle to keep from sagging. So far the extra bee space on the edges has not been much of an issue. They do not touch the side-walls of the hive, then neither does the dowels in the original true Jackson hives either.


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## pascopol

Sorry guys I still do not get it, is the dowel a horizontal bar?

How is it supported?

So far most of the post are like beating around the bush.

Or am I so stupid not to get the obvious?


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## newbeee

I'm new to bees this year. I have a tbh like the plans on Michael Bush's site.

And I am liking the top bar hives, so this idea of a trough hive with frames has perked my interest quite a bit. 

So I think for my next hive I'm gonna go with this idea of using frames the size for a deep lang. But also make the top bar a full width so that the bees can't migrate upwards such as a lang.

I think I'll go with 1 3/8" bars with frames and make em the size of a lang frame. Then make a box that'll hold 30-40 or so frames. Won't be put into use till next season. But I have a friend wanting to begin building another hive this week possibly, so I may get started with it soon.

Anybody have anymore pictures of their hives like this?


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## Tomas

I’ve used a similar type hive both here in Honduras and in Wisconsin. Both used a combination of frames and top bars.

I made frames with wide top bars for these hives that I use in Honduras. The frames are kept in the front and back where the bees store their honey. The brood combs in the center are for the most part on just a normal top bar. The frames are the size of a standard deep. I use an extractor with them.










http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh01.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh02.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh03.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh04.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh05.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Harvestedhoneyinframes.jpg

The hives I started in Wisconsin with my brother began from nucs. The original five frames were installed and maintained in the center section of the box. Top bars were added on either side of these frames from which the bees kept building comb. New frames were added to the back part of the box which were eventually drawn out and filled with honey. We used an extractor with these. The box itself was basically the same size and design as the ones I have in Honduras. These frames were the normal frames used in Langstroth equipment—no wide top bar. The section with the frames was first covered with a piece of quarter inch plywood and then the complete cover was put on over that. When you remove the plywood there might be eight or ten frames exposed—sort of like taking the cover off a Lang box. 

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/nucinstalledintbh.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/newcombfromthetbh.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/framefromtheinstallednuc.jpg

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Tom


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## Bsweet

Knew an old beekeeper in Arizona that used a topbar hive that would take Lang. deep frames. It really looked like a lang deep but was 4 or 5 times as long, he used lang deep frames in the brood nest area ( the first 10 or 12 frames) and Top Bars in the honey area. To keep the bees from coming up through the gaps between the lang frames in one hive he used burlap laid on top of them and would peel it back when he needed to inspect the brood area, and in another he used what looked like paint stiring sticks laid over the gaps.


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## utahbees

That is TBH perfection as far as I am concerned. I will have to try that! Can you post your exact frame hive dimensions and how many bars/frames do you use? Great pics...
Thanks for sharing!



Tomas said:


> I’ve used a similar type hive both here in Honduras and in Wisconsin. Both used a combination of frames and top bars.
> 
> I made frames with wide top bars for these hives that I use in Honduras. The frames are kept in the front and back where the bees store their honey. The brood combs in the center are for the most part on just a normal top bar. The frames are the size of a standard deep. I use an extractor with them.
> 
> 
> ----------
> Tom


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## Tomas

Utahbees--I see that this was your first post so here’s an official welcome to Beesource.

There is no one exact measurement that you need to use for this box—all depends on your frames. You might want to use standard deep Langstroth frames so just get the measurements from one of the boxes. Just make sure you maintain the proper bee transit space around the sides and bottom of the frames so everything works like it should (so the bees don’t glue everything to the sides of the box). A strip of wood could be nailed to the top of a standard frame to make a wide top bar that closes everything up. My frames in my hives in Honduras were made by me. Their measurement is just a bit different from the ones in the States.

As far as the number of frames—I use somewhere around 35 to 40. I usually think about having 15 to 20 frames/bars for brood and another 15 to 20 frames/bars for honey. You will be better off making the box too big rather than too small. The number of frames and bars sometimes depends on the wood that I have available.

My hives were also made with a long removable bottom board. I’m not sure if I would do it that way again. I never had to remove it. You might be better off just nailing the bottom pieces directly to the box and drilling some holes for entrances. So again, make adjustments as necessary to the depth to maintain the correct bee space between the bottom of the frame and the floor.

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Tom


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## utahbees

Thank You!



Tomas said:


> Utahbees--I see that this was your first post so here’s an official welcome to Beesource.
> 
> There is no one exact measurement that you need to use for this box—all depends on your frames.
> ---------
> Tom


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