# So, I gave one of those sugar bellows a try



## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

The jury's still out, as you can see.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIQKrcON6tk&fmt=22


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## spieker (Jun 26, 2009)

Enjoyed your video. When I first received my duster, I did things the way you did and the bees and I were not happy. So, I made some minor changes to the billows duster. I replaced their PVC pipe with one about 2 feet long. Then, I replace the end piece with a 90 degree elbow angle. Now, I get behind the hive and blow the sugar up from under the varroa mite screen. I just move all over the bottom of the screen. The bees remain calm. I am not 100% satisfied, but I do see enough mites fall that I believe it is working, at least on the bottom part of the hive.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Hi,
I just watched you're video & enjoyed it. I've been playing with one also, & think you are holding it wrong. I think the lid needs to be upward so the sugar falls too the screen in the bottom of the hopper. There is a little mixer on the bottom that keeps the screen clear when you pump. Just turn the nozzle 90 deg.

I'm might be wrong but I think it works better that way. Thanks, & Looking forward to the next film.


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## CentralPAguy (Feb 8, 2009)

Walking Bird,

Thank you for demonstrating one -- I saw ads that say you pump until a poof of 10X sugar comes out the top, but I didn't see it happen. I am thinking that whoever builds a better mousetrap for 10X sugar displacement will get alot of business.

What are your Emus names and did you have pay them any royalties for being in your video?

Just curious about your bee jacket as it seems really comfortable to wear. Who makes it -- I like the pockets.


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks everyone--- I'll give all the tips a try. 

As far as the beesuit- It's an Ultrabreeze, which I ordered from Magnet Man right here on the forum. It totally rocks. Connect with him or do a search on this forum for Ultrabreeze, and you'll see more. A little pricey, but well worth it; it's the most ventilated yet protective suit I've tried. I don't wear a shirt underneath, and I can feel the breeze cool me off--- it's hot out here in SoCal in the summer! 

Anyone interested in more videos, check out my blog at http://www.homegrownbees.blogspot.com

If you click on the July archives you'll see a bunch there, and I've got more coming.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Great video review! :applause: I recently purchased one of these too and was wondering if they worked as well in the real world as the sales write up says.


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

I think it'll get better with some of the above tips in mind. Once I get the hang of it I believe it'll be more effective than the giant shaker I used before.


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## CentralPAguy (Feb 8, 2009)

Keep us posted -- I want to buy one in the worst way, but from the video, it didn't seem as effective as I was hoping for.

I really wanted to see the dust come out the top as they claimed in their ads. I think your video only had one super on top of the deep. Most of my hives are running multiple supers above my deep.

Will you be testing against hives with multiple supers. You are really doing us satellite beeks a great service by demonstrating this tool and posting it for us. Thank you.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Excellent video! I've been looking at that unit skeptically. After seeing the video it looks like brushing the sugar through the screen on top of the open hive as I currently do is faster and easier.

I did run across this that's used in the lawncare industry for dust application. 
http://spyker.com/15.html It's using a hand crank fan for continuous airflow but the discharge would have to be modified to fit in a hives underside opening. Clogging may be an issue with this one as well. Has anyone tried this?


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

CentralPAguy said:


> Keep us posted -- I want to buy one in the worst way, but from the video, it didn't seem as effective as I was hoping for.
> 
> I really wanted to see the dust come out the top as they claimed in their ads. I think your video only had one super on top of the deep. Most of my hives are running multiple supers above my deep.
> 
> Will you be testing against hives with multiple supers. You are really doing us satellite beeks a great service by demonstrating this tool and posting it for us. Thank you.



You're right, it's a deep and a medium hive body stack, which is the size (generally) of my hives sans honey supers. I had just harvested honey, so no supers on at that time. I'll definitely shoot another video test of this thing using some of the tips; I'll post it both here and on my blog when I do.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I just got mine. First thoughts... It seems to work ok with the sugar container vertical so it gravity feeds. You get a much more dense cloud of dust if you tap it every couple puffs so I'm thinking a screen that has wider openings may be in order. I did get a cloud of dust coming out the upper entrance or hole in the inner cover when applying it at the bottom entrance with just 20 or so puffs. 

Dosage... I'm really not sure the 1 cup per hive for the screen method applies for the duster. You would have to pump a lot on one hive to use the whole cup. I don't know if the fraction of a cup you get with 20-30 pumps is enough to be effective. It was coming out the top, but could have been more dense a cloud. I may try modifying the screen so it uses more sugar per pump. I need to do a few colonies on sticky boards to see if it is effective, though it may be difficult to tell as the mites are very light this year.

-Tim


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

Yep, after watching my own video I can see I definitely need to hold the cannister vertically to aid gravity feed. And as you note, every time I tapped it a got a good cloud.

The cup-per-hive was the recommendation that came with the instructions, I think. Again, as you say, I'm not sure that much is needed.


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## adgjoan (Oct 19, 2008)

This is something I have been thinking about for a while. Do you think the sugar dusting harms the larva that are in open cells?


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## Marc (May 20, 2005)

adgjoan said:


> This is something I have been thinking about for a while. Do you think the sugar dusting harms the larva that are in open cells?


I have been sugar dusting my bees for three years now and I have not seen any adverse effects. I believe if the powder sugar would harm the open brood you'd see a lot of larvae being dragged out after sugar dusting. So far I haven't seen that. I do the traditional dusting from above with a kitchen colander, but that bellow tool looks cool. Thanks for sharing the video.


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## kwest (May 16, 2009)

do you need to have a screened BB for the powder sugar treatment? I assume you do so the mites fall to the ground?


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

kwest said:


> do you need to have a screened BB for the powder sugar treatment? I assume you do so the mites fall to the ground?


yes, that's the idea. I use SBB on all my hives, for mites, ventilation, and general hygiene. 

I use stands (because I have to control ants) so the mites don't "fall to the ground" but rather to the stand a few inches below, and they (presumably) can't make their way back up.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

When I was playing with my blower a few months ago, I figured it would take well over 200 pumps to move a cup of sugar.


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

KQ6AR said:


> When I was playing with my blower a few months ago, I figured it would take well over 200 pumps to move a cup of sugar.


Whoa, really? At a pump a second I'm standing there for over three minutes? You're right, that seems absurd.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

The question seems to be, if the amount of sugar used when pumping 20 or so times is enough. The directions that say 1 cup, might be wrong.

Someday one of us will find the answer.


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## CentralPAguy (Feb 8, 2009)

I keep hoping that you found the miracle machine. Remember that it has to pump 10X dust up thru a deep and 4 or 5 shallows and it has to be loaded quick for the mid-size beek who may work with 50 hives. I am not sure that I could pump 200 times 50 -- That is 10,000 pumps. Can these plastic imports hold up for that much. 

Seriously, we must have American inventors who can create a better mousetrap using better quality materials than what we are getting from our dealers. Does anyone know anyone who has the creative ingenious bug who can design such a sugar bellow pump. Can someone take a leaf blower that would extract dust from a bag to blow it from the top of the hive so that it dusts out the SBB. I am not mechanically inclined so it wouldn't be me.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I've pretty much come to the conclusion, that no one every tried these dusters with powdered sugar before selling them. There may be a prototype out there someplace that worked, but the ones they are selling have some significant design flaws in my opinion. You may get a good amount out on the first pump, but after that you barely get anything. You could shake the thing between every pump, but that gets old and defeats the purpose of a quick delivery method.

I really found 3 issues with the duster. They can be fixed, but you really shouldn't have to make modifications just to use it out of the box when it is being sold specifically for this purpose. By changing the following I got a good consistent cloud of dust on every puff.



The agitator (that thing with 3 arms in the sugar container that turns you you work the bellows), sits about 1/2" above the screen. This means it does little to keep the powdered sugar loose in the 1/2" above the screen and it gets packed enough that it won't go though the screen. This is a huge flaw. They would never sell a kitchen sifter designed with the agitator located away from the screen. It simply wouldn't work. This can be fixed by adding a bunch of washers underneath the container around the shaft and underneath the arm, thereby forcing the arms to scrape the top of the screen.
The screen in the sugar container had holes that are too small. This allows the sugar to clump up and clog holes easily, even with the adjustment in #1. I suspect the thickness of the screen affects it to. I replace this with #8 hardware cloth.
As assembled, the agitator (that thing with 3 arms in the sugar container that turns when you pump the bellows), only turns about 1/6th of a revolution. This leaves half the screen packed with sugar what won't be cleared. There are however two holes in the arm, if you place the metal piece in the hole closer to the shaft it will turn about 1/3rd of a revolution on each pump. With 3 arms this clears the entire screen.
The only other issue is that many bottom boards (including mine) only have a 3/8" opening so I may have to design a bit different nozzle for it.

After making these changes it works pretty well and I've got lots of white bees.

(I can post pictures of the changes if anyone wants)

-Tim


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## CentralPAguy (Feb 8, 2009)

tarheit, Would you post a picture of it --Thanks. 

Also when you tested your modified bellow, did you dust it thru a deep and 3 or 4 shallows above it. I am curious to find out how far the dust will fly. Thanks.

Walkingbird,

Are you working with a 10 frame deep and 9 frame shallows above it -- If so, I am not sure that it is dusting the bees in the shallows as the frames on the shallow would not line up with the frames in the deep. Did you take a peek at the bees in the shallow and were they all covered with dust. Thanks.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Hi Tim,
Those are some good ideas, I'm going to pull my duster off the junk pile.
Thanks


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

The new screen (#8 hardware cloth). 










I used a couple washers and a nut as spacers on the shaft to pull the agitator down so it actually scrapes the screen.










And finally, moved the metal bar to the hole closer to the shaft so it makes about a 1/3 turn on each pump instead of 1/6th.









-Tim


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I should also add. I did dust my 100+ hives to see how the modifications held up, and worked as good on the last hive as it did on the first. It's not super fast, but quicker than opening the top and screening powdered sugar. I got about 4 hives per fill up with maybe 30 pumps. I varied it a bit depending on the size of hive and if it had an upper or lower entrance, etc. 

In general it did seem to effectively dust them just doing it from the entrances. I was getting clouds of dust coming out the top (with 4 mediums) when just dusting from the bottom. Of course the real test is in the dropoff of the mite level (if any) after treatment. Unfortunately due to lack of time I really didn't do much more than a spot check beforehand.

-Tim


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

CentralPA- Those hives are deep/medium. I center the 9 frames in the mediums, so they're still aligned with those below. 

Lots of good tips here and great pix of the mechanical improvements, thanks. For what it's worth, after another test run this weekend on some other hives I found that simply holding the dang thing so the gravity feed worked was an effective quick-fix. (Obviously, everything works better when you use it the way it's intended. Sooner or later I'll get that concept )

Anyway, had plenty of dust poofing out the top of my deep/medium set-up. One new thing I learned: there's no need to push the nozzle deep into the hive. Just barely get the business end into the hive, and you get good coverage.

And the bees get REALLY ticked off when you push this thing along the bottom board, so it's more comfortable for all concerned if you just get past the opening.


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