# Langstroth Cutting Lists



## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

I have been asking on the Internet to try and find a cutting list for the Langstroth hive. I live in Thailand. The local industry uses the Taiwanese Bee Box which is a very commercial approach to extracting honey and wax.... so there are no local examples of the Langstroth hive to work from ... it is not here.

I would like to try with a Langstroth Hive and see what happens. It seems very popular in the States, Europe and Australia. There has to be a reason why they are not used here .... so I need to find out ... I suspect it may be due to the relatively large amount of work that goes into making the parts and the fact that each level stacks on top of each other without locking together which would make it a real pain where a farmer moves his hives round every three weeks to follow the flowering fruit trees.

There are many places on the Internet where a single pdf page may be found and downloaded which shows the hive. Personally I find this a bit confusing and not in my wildest dreams can I imagine explaining this to a Thai woodworker who does not know what a Langstroth hive is and knows nothing of English, whether it be spoken or written.

Does anyone know where I can find a detailed cutting list since this may be an easier approach? The idea is that if all the parts are listed then it is only cutting them and then putting them together. What could possibly go wrong?

This page has been suggested to me which is of course helpful but it still does not accomplish what I am looking for which is a detailed cutting list.
http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/10-frame-langstroth-barry-birkey/


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Maybe look up google sketchUp, download the program, go into the 3D warehouse look for a hive set up, that way you can convert the measurements (I assume your on the metric system). Also maybe consider dumping the finger joint system and go with a rabbet joint on the boxes, much less confusing and many feel just as good. 
In your climate you won't need an inner cover nor probably a telescoping outer cover just build a migatory one.
Yeah that PDF file would be confusing, a smidgen is not a good measurement eh? Good Luck


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

Thank you for your comments. Sadly I cannot use google sketchup .... it will run on only Windows and Mac. We run Ubuntu (wishing to avoid the prolific Windows piracy and spyware) and google is not yet there.......

Are knock down hives not supplied with a detailed packing list .... just wondering how far off a cutting list that would be .... ?

The woodworkers here are either very good and work to fine precision (typically with craft work) or are not used to precision and work to what looks right. I need to remove any element of interpretation since a Langstroth hive is supposed to be reasonably precise...


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Here's a PDF, right here on this web site;
This is for a medium depth super.

Modified brood chamber/deep
http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/learning/documents/number 5 langstroth and md hive.pdf

http://gobeekeeping.com/lesson three.htm





http://www.beesource.com/files/10frlang.pdf
Regards,
Ernie


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

Three very good links Ernie, thank you for your help here  I especially liked the first two .....


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## bdrowe (Feb 25, 2008)

I recomend you order a single brood kit as an example.

The most likely reason is beekeepers are slow to adopt new things when they have been doing things a certain way for years. During Brother Adam's world tours, he continued to present / lecture on the benifits to the modern hive.


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

A single brood kit is good for the States but not what they have here. There are no brood kits at all .... 

You suggest that bee keepers may be slow to adopt new ideas .... not so sure, yet. The reason is that bee keeping is very commercial here, or so it appears and I would guess the non use of Langstroth is a function of cost since a Langstroth hive is a lot of woodwork. It may also be a function of heat. The winters are not too cold here (say 54F) but the summer is going to be hot even in the shade (up to 110F) and if sun falls on a hive it is going to be hotter.

I need to build a Langstroth hive and find out ... my existing frames will fit.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

It appears that some of the hives shown in this link are Langstroth and they are located in Thailand.

What exactly does a "Taiwanese Bee Box" look like? 

Which species of honeybee are being kept? _Apis indica_, _Apis mellifera_, etc. I understand that many _Apis_ species are available in Thailand.


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

Good link but a little confusing with the photograph labelling.

Which of the photographs are Langstroth please?

This is the Taiwanese Bee Box
http://www.worldbees.com/cgi-bin/ap...=view&link=Thailand&image=22_Pua.jpg&img=&tt=

The reason that the photographs are confusing is that it appears that many were taken mainly in East Thailand, on or close to the border with Laos. However, the photographs of the warehouse and the foundation machine are from south Chiang Mai. I know that because I have been there. The vegetation shown in many of the photographs is different to what we have here which makes me wonder of the location.

The mention of Chanthabury Extension Station sounds very interesting. I think it may be located in East Thailand, perhaps close to the border with Cambodia (I am not sure) but it is a long long way from here.

This photograph is good. 
http://www.worldbees.com/cgi-bin/ap...04_Chanthabury_Extension_Station.jpg&img=&tt=
It looks like this may be a variation on the Dwarf Honey Bee (apis florea) hive but I have not seen the hives with the extension on top before. This may of course be a research station and they are testing variations.

The bees kept here are mainly the Italian Honey Bee (apis mellifera) but I understand that the Asiatic Honey Bee (apis cerana) is also common but I have not seen this at all. I am not aware of there being more than that..... but I do not know everything.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

This is what the inside of a Langstroth hive looks like: http://www.worldbees.com/cgi-bin/apimages/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Thailand&image=47_Phitsanulok.jpg&img=25&tt= Though many movable frame hives look very similar inside. This may be your Taiwanese Bee Box, perhaps a slight modification of what we would consider a normal Langstroth hive. The dimensions look correct, but it is difficult to be certain they are.

There are many subtle variations on the "typical" Langstroth hive, even here in the U.S.A. Many beekeepers make their own personal modifications to suit their management styles and beliefs.


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

I must say that your comments are interesting.

The photograph is of the Taiwanese Bee Box. I know that by looking at the top (on the rhs of the picture) and by looking at the top edge of the brood box where there is a raised lip which holds the top in place.

It had been my understanding that the Langstroth hive had a flush top and onto that a super or a top was placed (and only stayed put by the weight or a large stone or a strap).

The photo also shows six frames in place and a feeding frame. This is 100% typical for a colony before the honey season. An extra two frames are added when honey is taken and at that time the queen is caged. Supers are not used for some reason I do not yet understand.... 

My hives are just like that except I feed by putting a feeding tray on top of the frames rather than hanging a feeder in place.

The frame size is exactly the same as the Langstroth hive.


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

I must also comment that Langstroth hives also appear (based on the catalogs I have seen) to be a real piece of craftsmanship with straight timber, quality joints and measurements that were made with a tape measure.

The local hives here are a function of nails, whatever wood you can find and a good eye for more or less dimensions.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

It sounds, to me, like the Taiwanese Bee Box is very similar to a Langstroth, and also similar to a British Standard. I believe the British hive is square, having the same dimensions on all four sides of the supers. 

For the majority of my hives I use supers that are 6-5/8" deep, and the width to fit 8-frames. During my honey season a hive may grow to as many as ten of these supers, with the brood confined to the bottom two by a queen excluder.

I make my own Langstroth supers, which I cut so the tops of the frames are level with the top edge of the supers. Bee space between my supers is below the frames in each additional super. 

Here is a link to a site that may also help answer your questions: http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/other.html


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

This is quite an education. Thank you for the link. I had no idea that there were so many variations of the Langstroth hive. I had imagined that it was a standard and now I can see that the frame may be to a point but the hive itself is open to interpretation.

I would like to try a hive with supers ... I am really not sure what will happen and the easiest way to find out is to make one and try....


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

From what you describe earlier in this thread, concerning management by local beekeepers using the Taiwanese Bee Box, caging the queen during the honey flow and just adding a few more frames to the "Bee Box" to capture the honey flow. Variations on those themes have been tried, and I believe that some even use them, especially with Top Bar Hives.

But my most recent preference is to use two, 6-5/8" deep supers for my brood nest, I close them at the bottom by setting them on a screened board without openings that bees can use (just for good ventilation). I then place a queen excluder on top to confine the queen to these bottom two supers (now the brood nest), I place a 1/4" high rim, open in the front for an upper entrance, and add additional supers above this spacer/entrance for the bees to store honey into. I've done this for two seasons, this coming season will be my third. I closed my bottom entrances, which were traditional for Langstroth hives, because predators (toads), in my local area were eating so many of my bees that some hives were nearly wiped-out.


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## expatcm (Nov 15, 2009)

wow .... I really do have a lot to learn....

Concerning the toads though .. is there not an easy fix? Simply put the hives on a hive stand to take the hive say 70 cm off the ground. The toads could not then reach the bees..... Perhaps the weight of the hives makes this too much of a challenge.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Because we stack our supers for the honeyflow (sometimes as many as ten high), it is better if hives start as low to the ground as possible, my full-size hives are about 20cm above the ground sitting on two concrete building blocks that have been leveled. My Nucs, since they only get stacked two supers high (at most) are sitting on platforms made of pairs of wooden rails, the rails are supported 60cm above the ground creating a level platform for the Nucs to rest on. Most of the Nucs do not have bottom entrances, but their entrances are created by using a flat cover and sliding it back about 1/4 inch (.635cm). A few of my older Nucs still have bottom entrances - most nights during toad season I make one or two patrols to round up the toads and get them away from the hives (I use a red light and apparently I can see them but they can't see me). Even with these precautions, nearly every night I find multiple toads in my apiaries. I even find toads sitting on top of hives and Nucs, eating bees from these upper entrances, toads sitting on the landing boards of those few Nucs that still have lower entrances. Apparently, with the right motivation, those big, fat toads can do amazing things.


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