# Assembling brood boxes with 1/4"X1-1/2 staples and no glue



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

I've frames that are put together the same way, 6 staples total with 4 from the top bar down and 2 from the bottom bar up. No glue used, frames hold together great so far at 3 years in. This is year 4 and they are at this point holding strong. I know others that use the same way with the same results.


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

In my opinion your wasting your time. BIG TIME! A job worth doing is worth doing right.

I have all kinds of hand me down equipment that I've acquired and the worst boxes I have are glues and stapled with the staples your using. Everything's all fine until the glue brakes. Now with that said these particular boxes were made using rabbit joints. 

Please don't take this wrong I only mean to help you and save you frustration. If you do use staples I'd keep a jar of nails and a hammer with you just in case.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Nailed (or stapled) boxes were all there was before the advent of waterproof aliphatic glues (tightbond), and they work pretty well.

However, I think the glue in a properly assembled box goes a very long way to keeping water out of the joints, which will make the boxes last much, much longer.

If the staples are not galvanized, though, they may rust pretty quick, and when they do, they will leave you with nothing holding the boxes together. Galvanzied nails are still the best.

Peter


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

we started out with just nails and evolved to staples and eventually also glue. I only use glued frames and staples now. a good frame is a valuable resource and I want it to last as long as possible. when a super of honey drops by mistake and hits the ground you can see the benefit of quality.
the most important nail or staple in a frame is the horizontal one thru the end bar.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

We use no glue for finger jointed boxes. We use 1/2" crown staples that are 2" long. Joints are very solid. The only time I have seen them loosen up a bit is when full honey supers have fallen off the trailer and we try not to make a practice of that . The oldest stapled supers we have are about 10 years old and they are holding up very well.

Glue may be fine it you are building a few boxes, but you are building a large number, I don't see the enough added benefit in gluing.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If you are using glue also consider using 2 fence/deck screws on each side of the joint.
These coated fence/deck screws will never rust and should last a long time into the 20th year.
Even after the fence has collapsed these screws are still in tact. I use them to hold my bee boxes and
the osb boxes too. 2 on each side.


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## rob brinkerhoff (Dec 25, 2012)

Allen Martens said:


> We use no glue for finger jointed boxes. We use 1/2" crown staples that are 2" long. Joints are very solid.


I'd feel a lot better not using glue if was using 1/2" X 2" crown staples the frame staples seem a bit small. Ten years ain't too shabby for something that cost $11 and 10mins of your own labor.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

psfred said:


> Nailed (or stapled) boxes were all there was before the advent of waterproof aliphatic glues (tightbond), and they work pretty well.
> 
> Peter


Lumber use to be a lot better quality and strength too, at least here. There's no way I would assemble a box without using glue.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

rob brinkerhoff said:


> I started building boxes with 1/4"X1-1/2 crown staples without glue and it is about twice as fast, the joints seem real strong. Anyone out there with boxes 10-years old that are assembled without glue and would be willing to comment on there longevity?


I have both nail-only and nail-and glue boxes. I can't definitively comment on longevity, yet, because my oldest boxes are only 4 years old. But, I can say that even right after assembly and curing, the nail-and-glue boxes are noticeably more rigid than the nail-only boxes. In use, when I lever that first propolis covered frame out of a box, the joints of the nail-only boxes clearly flex under the load, while the nail-and-glue joints do not.

I think there is little doubt as to which box assembly method will last longer.


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## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

I currently use 1 3/4 inch 7/16 staples for some and 2in galv screws for others if I have the time.

I built a pretty good jig for mediums and can crank them out pretty quickly, even with screwing them together.

I always use glue (TB iii), big picture wise, glue is pretty cheap and it works. It also seals the joint better than human propolis (paint). It is important to remember that getting paint on the sides for the fingers is almost as important as in the gullet of the joint. When glue is just put in the gullet you are gluing end grain to straight grain and although the glue seals it tends to not hold as well and the sides. You can do an experiment with some scrap wood, glue one piece with the end grain to the side grain of the other piece, let it dry and tear it apart and see how it works.

Several years ago I made two HB and used a different method on each corner:

A. All finger joints glued
1. Hive Nails
2. 1 1/2 1/4 crown staples galv
3. 1 3/4 7/16 staples 
4. 2 in galv screws

B.. no glue used
1. Hive Nails
2. 1 1/2 1/4 crown staples galv
3. 1 3/4 7/16 staples 
4. 2 in galv screws

On B, there is some cupping of the board by with the 1/4 staples and also some loosening of the nails (other side)
I have yet to see any issues with A, my theory is the glue works.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

rob brinkerhoff said:


> 10mins of your own labor.


We try to build 40 supers an hour, shooting about 40 staples into each box.


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## rob brinkerhoff (Dec 25, 2012)

Allen Martens said:


> We try to build 40 supers an hour, shooting about 40 staples into each box.


1.5 min/box is very fast. With the right tools and practice, I could see that. For now I'd be happy with 10min/box.

I think there is no question as to which method will last longer, that is, assembling with glue and the appropriate fastener. But my main question was: is it really necessary if you can get 10+years without using glue. It is all about the economy of scale.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We have deeps made in the '40's still in service. They where not glued. We still do not glue, but do use galvanized Maze nails.

Crazy Roland


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## bentonbee (Jan 31, 2007)

Roland said:


> We have deeps made in the '40's still in service. They where not glued. We still do not glue, but do use galvanized Maze nails.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Roland, I think that 1940's wood was from the old big trees and the wood was better than what we get today! Mine sure don't last that long!


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