# Fuller Disclosure



## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

If you want folks to know.... put it on your profile page.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

David LaFerney said:


> I would like to propose that frequent users of Beesource voluntarily add the following information to their signatures:
> 5 years - 25 hives - T (or TF if you are treatment free)
> This might be considered a bad idea by some for one reason or another - which is fine, feel free to completely ignore it.
> Most people freely disclose this information whenever it comes up - often declaring it either proudly or humbly - but I think it would be useful information for many of us - and would reveal a good bit of information for a very small amt of effort.
> *To add or edit your signature* - At the top right of your screen click on "Settings" in the left column under "My Settings" click "Edit Signature"


Interesting point. A list in the UK has that information as part of their ID- they call it the average number of hives- It too is optional, but I note that most folks have that information posted.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> I would like to propose that frequent users of Beesource voluntarily add the following information to their signatures:
> 
> 5 years - 25 hives - T (or TF if you are treatment free)


Good idea.I can see where this would help newcomers to beesource.Those of us who have been here for a while have already decided who we will read and who we will scroll past.In my case two that I never skip are Cleo Hogan and Acebird.That's about as diverse as you can get.If you wonder why I always read Brian's posts it's because he thinks outside the box(no pun intended there).Outside the box thinkers are where our new,good and bad,ideas come from.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The signature is pretty limited in size... not so easy to add more information, but I'll try it for a while... had to abbreviate... 40 years, 200 hives, 37 years of Treatment Free. If I had it to do over, it would be 40 years of Treatment Free...


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

David LaFerney said:


> I would like to propose that frequent users of Beesource voluntarily add the following information to their signatures:
> 
> 5 years - 25 hives - T (or TF if you are treatment free)


When when caught our first swarm in 1980 I had know idea what kind a journey the bees hanging on a neighbors tree would bring.

After many years of observation I have decided that the info you ask for could be useful but is not always the best way of decifering who is a holder of the "wisdom of beekeeping."

Any one who has any regular chance to have a chat with fellow commercial beekeepers would readily agree that this whole gig has turned into a a circus that look like a dog chasing his own tail. One has less and less time to sit and enjoy the small part of the creation they are working with and still keep the bees alive without killing themselves.

My tag would be 32.5 years..............Hive count: Who cares because its irrelevant? I am way past the ego part of this game cause it's all work and all fun.


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

No worries.. didnt have much in Sig anyhow. not a terrible idea.


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Honey-4-All said:


> After many years of observation I have decided that the info you ask for could be useful but is not always the best way of decifering who is a holder of the "wisdom of beekeeping."


 I have to agree!



Honey-4-All said:


> Any one who has any regular chance to have a chat with fellow commercial beekeepers would readily agree that this whole gig has turned into a a circus that look like a dog chasing his own tail. One has less and less time to sit and enjoy the small part of the creation they are working with and still keep the bees alive without killing themselves.
> 
> My tag would be 32.5 years..............Hive count: Who cares because its irrelevant? I am way past the ego part of this game cause it's all work and all fun.


 To this, I do not agree.. I do very much enjoy reading about how others manage their apiary. Often I have found GOOD information that has aided me. The secret is knowing enough to set aside bad advice and try the good advice. Arguing over methods has occasionally shown me the error of my own methods, and perhaps my own arguments have done the same for others. There is NO exact set of instructions.. most noobs, me included start out with basic information and build on their knowledge.. being smart enough to ignore those who rant that their method is best makes the rest a lot easier. Methods of keeping bees in Texas doesnt work In Maine...
I find that adapting methods others talk about to how I do things has given me MORE time to enjoy that small part of creation I am working with. Learning to be a GOOD lazy beekeeper and treatment free is my goal. I couldnt do it without help.
Hive count: Who cares because its irrelevant? 
If you have 5 hives, and I want 5 hives I will pay more attention to your methods than I would someone that has 500 hives. It has nothing to do with Ego.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

The treatment vs treatment-free bugs me. I may not meet the TF qualification on *this* site but I am a heck of a lot closer to it than I am to those who use every treatment that comes down the pike! I USED to call myself "organic" until USDA co-opted the word and twisted it into a pretzel. But I am just not comfortable labeling myself with that scarlet "T"! so I'll have to pass. 

Feel free to check my profile or my website for any other information you want to know about me.

JMO

Rusty


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> The treatment vs treatment-free bugs me. I may not meet the TF qualification on *this* site but I am a heck of a lot closer to it than I am to those who use every treatment that comes down the pike! I USED to call myself "organic" until USDA co-opted the word and twisted it into a pretzel. But I am just not comfortable labeling myself with that scarlet "T"! so I'll have to pass.
> 
> Feel free to check my profile or my website for any other information you want to know about me.
> 
> ...




Ahhhh.... here!!! T There.. that better? Its a GREEN T, now you can say your going green! LOL
Treating isnt a mark of shame.. its better to treat to save your bees than to let them die. re queening later is a lot easier than starting over from scratch.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

This idea has been brought up before and although David's intentions are no doubt good I resist this type of thing. It is too easy to judge others by the number of hives they have or the years they have been beekeeping. Do it if you must but I will not partake in it.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I also know several beekeepers (30+ years of experience with 30+ colonies) that claim that wax moths take their bees each season. I've also come to not rely on beesource post count numbers as a measure of credibility either. For the record, 12+ years experience, and currently 55 colonies, mostly VSH lineage and basically TF for the past 10 years, but don't associate me with most of the blather that goes on in the TF forum.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I understand. The kid with the most patches isn't always the best scout - but they do mean something.

BTW - there are some beekeepers who i have great respect for who don't have any hives at all. It's only one metric.

Also, i would not have suggested this if i thought treating was somehow shameful.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Thought it was a good idea so have changed my sig. Just, the 120 letters allowed was not enough to properly describe my situation, but anyhow, the idea is there.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

That's an idea. I'm trying it.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

WWW said:


> This idea has been brought up before and although David's intentions are no doubt good I resist this type of thing. It is too easy to judge others by the number of hives they have or the years they have been beekeeping. Do it if you must but I will not partake in it.


Pretty sure that this is happening anyway , all it takes is a little research or a P.M.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

gone2seed;1021100In my case two that I never skip are Cleo Hogan and Acebird.[/QUOTE said:


> I would add Rader Sidetrack to your list.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> Pretty sure that this is happening anyway ,


Yes indeed it is, but that doesn't make it any more desirable for me to be a part of it.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Well, why not? I'm a beginner, but it's better to be a beginner than some other statuses I can think of.

oops, my sig didn't show


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## imthegrumpyone (Jun 29, 2013)

- hobbyist - 0 years - 0 hives - o experience - TF maybe - hoping for a lot of luck - (can't wait till spring) Be nice and wish me luck, I'm ready to jump in head first. I'm 70 + years old, never to late to start something.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

ccar2000 said:


> If you want folks to know.... put it on your profile page.


I am almost always disappointed when I check someones' profile and only find out where they live and how old they are.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> The treatment vs treatment-free bugs me. I may not meet the TF qualification on *this* site but I am a heck of a lot closer to it than I am to those who use every treatment that comes down the pike! I USED to call myself "organic" until USDA co-opted the word and twisted it into a pretzel. But I am just not comfortable labeling myself with that scarlet "T"! so I'll have to pass.
> 
> Feel free to check my profile or my website for any other information you want to know about me.
> 
> ...


Retired from what? CIA?


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

I think it's a great idea . I look at most profiles of the beekeepers that give info on beesource . 
I'm in:thumbsup:


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

imthegrumpyone said:


> - hobbyist - 0 years - 0 hives - o experience - TF maybe - hoping for a lot of luck - (can't wait till spring) Be nice and wish me luck, I'm ready to jump in head first.


GOOD LUCK!!!

hehe, I already said it, but I will say it again. If you take everything seriously your going to be in trouble. I have gotten myself in trouble just trying the ideas I thought were good.. I am somewhat surprised at the resistance of something so simple, but do fully respect the choice NOT to do it... MOST beeks have more experience than I do. I have only had my hives a couple years, but have been aiding a beek for a long time. I started when i was twelve or thirteen, but about that time I noticed girls.. then I noticed cars about 15, and was in the SeaBees by 18... One thing led to another, and I returned to where I grew up, and the old fellow asked me if I was interested in helping him again... I assisted for about six years, the last four I was doing most of the work and inspections... listening to his advise, instructions, and stories I had already heard many times, and I loved it... When he passed, no one even called me to tell me.. i showed up at his house to go through the hives to find his daughter there, she asked me who I was, what i wanted... She told me what happened, and said.. the hives are gone. I had my husband burn them.....
So I had to start all over again from scratch, in anger and frustration at the PURE stupidity and ignorance some people are capable of...
Another beek I know close by is into ALL NATURAL.. he talks of finding an underground water source OVER which to place his hives, because the natural resonance calms the bees. Using THICK boxes to reproduce the harmonics of a hollow tree more closely. He raises mason bees, and bumble bees, because the natural competition makes his bees produce MORE for him... I listen to it all. I read on here, and take it ALL in... but it doesnt all come back out again in how I manage my bees. I tend to pay more attention to those who have ten to fifty hives, rather than two, or two hundred, because thats where I am and want to be. So i like it.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm in. 
Not sure how valuable it will be, but if it helps someone on their beekeeping journey, so be it. That's what it's all about.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i'm in, time for a new signature anyway.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I'll change just to see if there is a benefit.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

My count varies from summer to fall to spring. right now 60+ hives. Next year who knows. Experience: 70's with a commercial beekeeper. Presently about 6 years now with varroa.


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

Reminds me of my partner who can talk horses with the best of them because of listening (and believing) me over the years.... but when they say what type of horse do you ride? the answer is none! Bee knowledge is experience, of course, but a lot of it is also books, videos...all quite valid and sometimes the reader knows more then the doer because the doer just does it the same way year after year after year...


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## hideawayranch (Mar 5, 2013)

heck, I'm in


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm in a as well. Just updated my very old profile.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

But not your signature?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Everyone can do what they want, but I'd rather converse with a fellow on the merit of what they are saying rather than qualifying their statements with the number of hives they operate or years they have been in the business. 

I do however like when Beekeepers here on this forum sign their name behind the comment they just posted. People tend to say ridiculous things when hiding behind a tag name.
I actually scroll past tag names in most posts


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## cdevier (Jul 17, 2010)

I have really enjoyed reading these posts. Wish that we had the internet back in the 1970's with all the information.

Yes - I treat my bees. I have to control varroa mites somehow.. I have no idea how some of you are making it treatment free. But I will find the secret.

I think that we have a great place to raise bees - no farming in over a mile.
Charlie


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Ok I'll play. Oh, and by the way I won't look down my nose @ anybody that treats. I've got ADD and can't keep track of mite counts


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I got sidetracked, updated my profile, couldn't find the signature stuff..... it would be fun to have people guess first.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Juan Roberto Gibbs, age 13

Signature stuff? Click on Settings at the top of this Page. Scroll down the left side of the page and you should find Edit Signature. Click on that and follow the directions. I'm surprised you didn't know that being 13.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Aug 3; 3 singles, 4nucs, 1 mini and 3 just laying in q castle. =12
Aug 6, dead bees with dead adult wax moths inside, castle all dead, 1nuc dead, 1/3 to 1/2 drop in population others, 2 nucs not impacted, =8
Another week, mini absconded, 2 queens in singles, one in nuc gone, i nuc dying fast. Did catch a swarm coming out of the woods and landing at the neighbors. = 4 viable
Balanced and shuffled. 2 very small and late splits.

Currently, not real impressed with any survivors. 4 have September mated queens, well after the the major drone drop.

Hoping to be able to still put up a 4 come spring.
Boo Hoo. Suck it up.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

OK,I updated my signature and carefully followed directions.Why isn't it showing up?

Well,never mind.It takes another post.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

At least we are all getting practice updating profiles and signatures! Myself included.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Retired from what? CIA?


OOPS! I lost my trenchcoat! Seriously, tho, YOU're the one who is quick on the trigger--you got there before I even got it updated!!!



Rusty


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

I already spent to much time on here and not enough in the yards. If i have to update my numbers after every yard visit I guess its time to hire a beesource update secretary. Today we finished throwing patties on 50 hives in Marin. Maybe two new dinks. So.......... I figure its two less on the tag line than yesterdays count. The other half of the yard had 25 that could be chopped in half if I had queens. If that happens am I up 25 or are they only Kosher to list after the queens take? The numbers in this game are so all over the board constantly I don't think it really matters.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Some form of local climate info would be helpful, too, since local conditions are so influential on beekeeping methods.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

A good idea - I play ( is using DE TF?? - I'm never sure what TF really means)


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Good point, is "Treatment" only referring to treating Varroa mites?

If it is, then all Australian's are Treatment Free


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I think the idea is fine. But I don't find that on this group such information is used in a helpful manner. Details that are known are used to insult. I do not encourage anyone to post actual details about themselves here. not even their location. Make general or hypothetical comments. but do not post actual information.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Daniel, this is not fishermansource, it's beesource.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Daniel Y said:


> I think the idea is fine. But I don't find that on this group such information is used in a helpful manner. Details that are known are used to insult. I do not encourage anyone to post actual details about themselves here. not even their location. Make general or hypothetical comments. but do not post actual information.


A little paranoid maybe?:ws:


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

GLOCK said:


> A little paranoid maybe?


Not if they're actually out to get you.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

GLOCK said:


> A little paranoid maybe?:ws:


If one has ever done anything wrong and talked about it on beesource there is reason to be paranoid. It doesn't take the NSA.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Daniel Y said:


> I think the idea is fine. But I don't find that on this group such information is used in a helpful manner. Details that are known are used to insult. I do not encourage anyone to post actual details about themselves here. not even their location. Make general or hypothetical comments. but do not post actual information.


I disagree. For years now I have only used my real name on the internet, and have given accurate information about myself whenever it was asked for. No one has ever used any of that against me that I can recall. But it does compel me to behave myself somewhat.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You know when it comes to hive counts I suspect everyone here knows (or soon will) that is constantly in flux. No one is going to get audited because of their signature hive count. Same goes for treatment free - as far as I am concerned no one is going to be labeled as a Treatment Free In Name Only. Someone else might, but that is their problem. Call yourself whatever you think is fair.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> I disagree. For years now I have only used my real name on the internet, and have given accurate information about myself whenever it was asked for. No one has ever used any of that against me that I can recall.


Same here.If anyone ever did get access to my bank account they would die laughing.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

For an illustration of what can happen when you post _too much information_ (TMI), see this thread:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?264380-Beekeeping-is-a-very-cheap-hobby/page10

:gh:


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

I think this is a good idea. Including some brief information in a signature line will make it even easier for someone to decide if my responses might be useful. I do attempt to be clear about my lack of experience when it is pertinent to do so, as in cases when someone requests advice on an issue that I have dealt with. 

I learned early on that post counts do not necessarily correlate with hands-on experience, and that good experience in one location might translate into disaster in mine. If including a little extra information in a signature line might be useful to others in this community, then I am all for it.

To make this a bit easier to do, a character count greater than 120 would be helpful. I have no knowledge of the underpinnings of this site, but it may turn out to be a small task to increase the number of allowed characters in signature lines. Even a Twitter-like140 would be an improvement.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

GLOCK said:


> A little paranoid maybe?:ws:


Not if that is how information has actually been used. And from what I can tell it is the only way it has been used.


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Well, if were talking SS#, Drivers Lic etc.. I would advice not to ever give those things out.. and its why I am no longer a part of facebook.. they decided I needed to prove to them I was a real person, and requested exactly that info.. Multiple emails got no replies at all, so I am done with facebook.. sad because I liked being able to keep track of family and friends...
Giving information on zone, how many hives if you treat etc.. I really cant imagine being used against you, unless it is from another poster on here, and those are easy enough to ignore.. If having someone use such things against you bothers you, then get married.. it will quickly harden you to having your innermost secrets used against you, so harsh words here just bounce off..


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I think a signature line should stay a signature and maybe a phrase that you feel is right for you. If I have been lazy and haven't updated my profile ask that I do so and then it is still my choice. I updated mine today.


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## DRAKOS (Oct 17, 2011)

Well, here I am, nice thought.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

MattDavey said:


> Good point, is "Treatment" only referring to treating Varroa mites?
> 
> If it is, then all Australian's are Treatment Free


Not sure. I only use DE for the SHB. Use of Fibronil ( in Apithor) is very common and I don't object to it, just don't want to use it.
I read quotes like "mostly TF" I guess this is like being a little pregnant


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

shinbone said:


> Some form of local climate info would be helpful, too, since local conditions are so influential on beekeeping methods.


There is not enough room for all of the pertinent info you may want to know about. That's why we write to each other on the Forums. It's how we get to know each other better.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I wasn't suggesting *all* pertinent info - just a few tidbits of what is arguably the most important factor - local climate - to determine whether another beekeeper's methods may work for you.

It is all voluntary anyway, so folks can post or not post whatever they feel comfortable with. But there are many arguments that spring up this forum about what does or does not work for a beekeeper where the adversaries are from completely different climates, and thus each one is correct for his/her situation making the argument a big misunderstanding and a waste of time and emotion.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Or one person is just wrong lol


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

shinbone said:


> there are many arguments that spring up this forum about what does or does not work for a beekeeper where the adversaries are from completely different climates, and thus each one is correct for his/her situation making the argument a big misunderstanding and a waste of time and emotion.


Yup, see that all the time.

Sqkcrk is right though, there isn't enough room in the sig for everything. When I did mine I did what I thought was a brief summary, then found I had to reduce it by around 1/2.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Well . . . I guess there is what is important to the poster and what is important to the readers.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Readers should ask then. I can't guess what would be important for you to know about me other than what my tag line already says. The rest you can find out by reading what I Post.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Just posting to see if I did the signature thing right.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Sqkcrk is right though, there isn't enough room in the sig for everything. When I did mine I did what I thought was a brief summary, then found I had to reduce it by around 1/2.


I don't think the signature line was ever meant to be a bibliography. Maybe Barry can chime in and let us know if filling up every post with this info has any detrimental effects on how the forum runs.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Yes, it does, that's why I limit it to 120 characters. I don't like a lot of visual noise when reading through threads. A signature is for signatures, not for one's biography. I may further restrict signatures to a smaller font size.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oh,no!!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Hey Barry, what about all this excessive quoting ? Guys, quote only what your referencing to !


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Ian said:


> Hey Barry, what about all this excessive quoting ? Guys, quote only what your referencing to !


Thanks for saying that.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I've given up on that one, Ian. I have to pick my battles as I don't have enough time to do it all. Sig controls I can set and not deal with again. Trying to get members to do their own work of presenting the best post gets tiring, and frankly, even after talking to some, they continue to quote excessively. Tells me they don't appreciate quality.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Whoops, guess it's best to ask first. 



> I don't like a lot of visual noise when reading through threads. A signature is for signatures, not for one's biography.Barry


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Hey, if it fits within 120 characters, have at it!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Barry said:


> I've given up on that one, Ian. I have to pick my battles .


You know what it is? Hand held phones. It's a real pain to try editing a post on these little devices. Much easier to repost the entire quote


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ian, why don't you simply reply to the previous Post by addressing the person who Posted it? I guess your explanation may be why I see so many Posts quoting the whole Post right below the quoted Post.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Mark, a proper well structured post would do just that, name the fellow your talking to PLUS reference the points of discussion within your own post or statement.

But who wants to take the time to do that? Lol. Not me, I like casual conversation , but I hate clutter!


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Our country is bogged down in a morass of bureaucratic rules and regulations. Since this is a voluntary thing, count me out, but I'm not a very knowledgeable beek anyway and my bio could be reduced to just "beekeeper."


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

How many deletes does it require before you earn the official beesource "deleted by Barry" bumper sticker?


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