# Frame bee space between supers



## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

You've got it right. It's the reason for the interbar comb. 3/8 is a MAX. The extra space induces cord wood drone brood in the interbar space in the spring - a waste of colony energy when boxes are separated.

Unfortunatly, box dimensions from some suppliers do not support the 1/4 to 3/8 desired spacing. I don't use the stand up slide rail that is supplied by Kelly with their deep boxes - use 9 frame metal spacers. I can shim the frame rest ledge with stripping and take 1/4 off the bottom, or take 1/8 off both top and bottom. I shoot for 5/16 interbar space and get very little interbar comb when I get it right.

Boxes acquired from the northwest many years ago have a 5/8 deep rabbet for the frame rest. That's about right for my purposes. Any adjustment can be trimmed from the bottom of the box. Any time spent making it right before the box is put in service pays dividends for the life of the box. (For you and the bees)

Walt W


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Also some frame top bars are thicker/thinner than others which makes the spacing off.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I believe the answer to your discrepency lies in the dimensions of comb honey section frames used before extractors where common. I measured some and they had the correct bee space when used in a 9 5/8 super. If one uses one deep for a brood chamber, the error is on the bottom board end, and causes no problems. I have yet to resolve the all wood innercover bee space issue, but since it is usually on the fringe of the cluster, it seems to cause less problems. 

Roland


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

I buy from Brushy Mtn & cut the frame rest down so that when the deep, medium or shallow super is set on a flat surface with frames in it, the bottom of the frames will set on the flat surface. There will be a 3/8 space between the tops of the top bars and the top of the super. At least that's my goal. I make all my own inner covers with a flat bottom surface. I don't think that's the way they are supposed to be, but it works for me and it makes sense to me.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

ya, but ,

you know,

I have boxes I made, boxes someone else made, boxes professionals made, boxes that someones grandfather made. The space between the box frames vary from no space at all to too much space.

Dont worry about it, scraping bur comb in the honey house never bothered me too much, it usually means the boxes are full of honey 

It is a it of a pain in the brood boxes though,


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## BoBn (Jul 7, 2008)

wcubed said:


> Any time spent making it right before the box is put in service pays dividends for the life of the box. (For you and the bees)
> 
> Walt W


Checking the bee space should be including in beginner beekeeping books.

Maybe someone can could do a magazine article evaluating and comparing the various manufacturers. 


I helped a couple of new beekeepers get started this year. They both started with all brand-new equipment. Lots of brace comb between top & bottoms of frames. The boxes were over sized. It is a shame, because they both spent top dollar for "beginner hives".


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"Unfortunatly, box dimensions from some suppliers do not support the 1/4 to 3/8 desired spacing." --wcubed.

"Maybe someone can could do a magazine article evaluating and comparing the various manufacturers." --BoBn.

I agree, when I got back into keeping bees five years ago I purchased woodenware from different suppliers [mistake I think] just to try them. I think I've had an undo [unnecessary??] amount of burr comb between boxes. Of course the bees will build "bridge comb" if the space is too large; they aren't dumb. They also probablty build it more when there's a big nectar flow. I noticed that the boxes from Walter Kelley is the shortest for brood boxes at 9 1/2 inches; from the L. Carron book. For those that use Kelley boxes, do you get less bridge comb?


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## Beegreen (Aug 30, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I built everything myself and I have learned a lot from doing so. I have access to a lot of lumber and woodworking tools and my plan is to start selling supers (with box joints), tops and bottoms, Nuc's, etc.. I figure $10 for a deep, $7 for a medium and $6 for a shallow, regardless of quantity or grade, should be a fair price and they will have the right bee space. Enjoy the day everyone.


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

There's as much variation in frame sizes as there is in box sizes. My best advice is to pick one supplier of frames. Then, trim your boxes down to support the proper bee space. Don't ask how I learned this.


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## BeekeepingIsGood (Aug 12, 2012)

Any chance this extra space between boxes is to accommodate wood shrinkage?


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't know why deep frames are 1/8" short -- as far as I know, all the supplier's I've looked at have frames that leave 1/2" between frames vertically if you use two deeps. Other boxes are fine, just the deeps. 

I suppose it's a hang-over from using only one deep (the original Langstroth design) and shallower boxes, or maybe someone thought that having a space for drones between the boxes was a good idea (it's not so far as I'm concerned). 

I make my own frames, and make deep frames 9 1/4" instead of 9 1/8" -- I prefer correct bee space.  

Using two Kelley deeps and standard frames will result in a ton of drones between frames, the space is 1/2" just like everyone else's.

Peter


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Bonjour
Je suis débutant dans l'apiculture mais je pense construire des ruches ou l'espace abeilles sera de 8 mm partout :entre cadres,entre cadres et mur de la ruche,en haut des cadres,sauf en bas à l'entrée de la ruche ,il faut un espace plus grand(je pense pour trouver la hauteur d'entrée des abeilles,je trouverai peut-être).
Que pensez-vous de mon idée ?


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## BeekeepingIsGood (Aug 12, 2012)

6mm est suffisent pour une abeille. Peut-etrê 9mm est mieux ou on veux avoir deux abeilles.

La defi c'est la grandeur du bois peut changer est la épaisseur d'une rayon est variable.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Other beekeepers say that 6 mm between walls and frames risk crushing the Queen.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

BeekeepingIsGood said:


> Any chance this extra space between boxes is to accommodate wood shrinkage?



That is my opinion. In the '70s I thought I was so smart sawing deep boxes down to 9 1/2". But the ones that have lasted 
a few decades are now too short with the frames hanging out the bottom. A lot depended on the batch of lumber also. Some boxes shrank a lot more than others.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

s'il vous plaît,proposez-moi un schémas d'une ruche Langstroth ( en millimètre si possible) que vous préférez avec des cadres de 19".Merci.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

To really learn what your bees think about beespace between the boxes, try cutting one super so that the bottom is tapered from 1/2" down to zero beespace across 10 frames. They will show how they like it. Then go make the rest of your boxes the size of the acceptable frame spaces.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

psfred said:


> I don't know why deep frames are 1/8" short -- as far as I know, all the supplier's I've looked at have frames that leave 1/2" between frames vertically if you use two deeps. Other boxes are fine, just the deeps...
> 
> Peter


It's for debris, dead bees, and propolis on the bottom board. Some of us give additional cluster space. 

You get a lot more honey in ideal conditions when there is enough room to go store honey. Many of the foraging bees don't wait for a house bee to hand off the load, they go pack it themselves for a short rest, then back out again to the flowers.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Je demande à tous les amis sur cette page de me décrire l'espace sur (au dessus) et sous (au dessous) des cadres dans une seule boite pour avoir une idée claire et Merci.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I use top bee space because it prevents problems with migratory covers. My frames are Dadant 11 1/4 deep in boxes 11 5/8 inches deep. I wrote up a bit of information about frame design that might shed some light on this discussion.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?325985


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Que pensez-vous que je choisisse ce sit“In the Beekeeper’s Work Shop”
Building a Bee Hive: The Hive Bodies
©by Stephen E.“In the Beekeeper’s Work Shop”
Building a Bee Hive: The Hive Bodies
©by Stephen E. Tilmann Tilmanne pour fabriquer ses boites:


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Here in Algeria is the ball of numbers: 3/8 up to 3/4 inches.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Bonjour
Je me suis documenté ,9 5/8 est une bonne mesure je crois car le bois rétrécit de plus de 1/64,donc c'est bon .J'aime les ruches du Michigan.


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