# Can we talk about the Russians?



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have had russian swarms I collected and was so impressed with their stinging and swarmng ability, I keep them out of flying range of my regular locations. I don't want any more of them. The fact suppliers of russian queens are hard to come by speaks volumes. As far as mite resistence, I have italian mutts that are better. This is my own purely anecdotal experience. Just take a small bite and cull the drones on your out crosses.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Hello Enj. 
I think you and I share some of the same winter climes, and I also wonder about the Russians. I have introduced some Russian (Caucasians) genetics into my apiary which started out as Buck fast/Italian bees....And have been chased away 1/4 mile by the non-Russians and am not sure what effect the Russians have had on my apairy....I think my bees are somewhat ornery without the Caucasian influence....I will add that I have had hives that I thought were dead,,,full of dead bees that seemed to come back from the grave for no reason....Maybe this was the, small cluster Balkan influence ...... Today as I made a cursory inspection and added sugar bricks and pollen sub I noticed some life in some hives that I had written off to winter kill and my thought is "MAYBEE" I need to change my spring point of view.....I think maybe how I handle dead outs and my winter management will have to change with the frugal influence of the Russian bees....It was 30F today and there was activity outside on a landing board that I couldn't see any activity from the top of the box......Russian bee temperament and management are different than the standard "almond Italians" that are pumped by the American bee circus....I look at this as an education in observations and management, I hope I can keep up and capitalize on the strengths and character of the Russian bees ...JMHO

==McBee7==


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

I bought a single deep colony directly from one of the Russian Bee Breeders Association members. They were a little bit irritable, but not dangerously so. They were also hardy, survived TF, and had a long lived queen. My only complaint is that they just weren't very vigorous. The colony never seemed to take off. I probably should have gotten a couple of young Russian queens the first year and split the single deep.

The truth is that the feral mutt swarms I catch are gentler, just as hardy, and more vigorous. I'm just going to go with the flow and host swarms from the local feral population for a while.


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## bee keeper chef (Nov 1, 2015)

I never gave it a thought about 1 hive that tends to give me grief but after reading your question my mean hive is russian bees they are in there third year and requeened there selves last year I will see if they are still grouchy this summer they produce good honey . I keep them in a yard I do not get to that often If they continue to be mean I want to requeen them with one of my American mutts not sure how that will go


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## nediver (May 26, 2013)

bentonkb said:


> They were also hardy, survived TF, and had a long lived queen. .


Could have been they never thrived because TF free.


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

I have had good experience with the Russians I have bought from Russian Bee Breeder members. As a matter of fact, the 2 hives that survived this year are both Russians! I don't think they are too aggressive, and they get a bad rap. I totally disagree with the old saying, better dead than red!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

A decade ago I was helping to collect data for a study. One of the collaborators was a member of the Russian Queen Breeders. We would go through his hives and also those of a number of other commercial beekeepers collecting data. His bees were never particularly aggressive. He made a good honey crop every year...his main business. 
I've had pure Russians and 'hybrid' Russians in my own yards. I never noticed a significant difference between them and my non pedigreed bees. Except that the pure Russians did overwinter with a significantly smaller cluster. It always made me nervous but they bounced back each spring.
I am not saying that folks who've had hot or unproductive Russians aren't being true. I'm only saying that their experiences aren't universally true.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

i tried some a couple of times.[russian hybreds].. no fall build-up in my location at all, so the clusters were too small, they all died out in late winter to early spring, like about now more or less. i am not going to repeat this plan.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

I brought in some Russian/Carni hybrids two years ago, now I have three times more than I started with. Going in to the Winter before last, one of the increase hives had a dinky little queen and a fairly small population, I combined another dinky one (after killing off their queen) with them, threw a super of honey on top and wrote them off. I fully expected them to be dead in the Spring...but they weren't. That dinky little queen brooded up fantastically and they hit summer with a massive population- and it was the ONLY hive to produce a surplus last year. The queen was the daughter of one of the original hybrids, open-mated here so I don't know for sure what got into her.

I have not yet noticed any difference in temperament, in fact, I have been stung more times by the Italians I had than all of the others combined (though that was really my fault for being clumsy). I got buzzed a few times a week or two back when I went out to check on them after a massive snow dump, but I suspect that had more to do with the fact that I was wearing a big, black, hooded down parka at the time than them being ornery.

I have not yet noticed any issues with keeping them in the same yard with Carnis and Italians. I'll see what happens this Spring, whenever it happens to get here (I did see a robin on Monday, so maybe it will be sooner rather than later).


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

nediver said:


> Could have been they never thrived because TF free.


You could be right, but they came from a TF breeder and all my other hives are TF, stocked with swarms from a feral colony in my neighbor's yard. They thrive without treatments. I've got no good reason to buy purebred bees when the local mutts are totally satisfactory.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

I started out with russian bees. I thought they were just great the first year or two. After that I hated them. Life is too short to deal with mean bees. Plus mites still killed them.

It took a couple of years but I extinguished two beginner beekeeping myths at about the same time.....russian bees and treatment free beekeeping.

Get some queens from Michael Palmer and breed from the best.

Tom


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Duplicate.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I don't know how hybridized our mentor's Russians were, but I'm sure they were not pure bred. They were definitely hot. We bought a nuc that turned out to have a daughter of his Russian queen running things, and I've never had so many stings as the day we picked them up. The Czarina and her Cossacks changed our habits around the hives ... no more casual watching without a veil. They're gone now, and we can again stand around the hives watching them without protection.

Our mentor tells us his Russians mellowed after a few generations.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

Phoebee said:


> Our mentor tells us his Russians mellowed after a few generations.


 surprise: they became local mixed and mixed local commercial bees, in other words ordinary bees.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Exactly. But at least we have that to look forward to. My understanding is it never works with Africanized bees.


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## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

Vance G said:


> I have had russian swarms I collected and was so impressed with their stinging and swarmng ability, I keep them out of flying range of my regular locations. I don't want any more of them. The fact suppliers of russian queens are hard to come by speaks volumes. As far as mite resistence, I have italian mutts that are better. This is my own purely anecdotal experience. Just take a small bite and cull the drones on your out crosses.


This is totally incorrect. The fact that there are few Russian suppliers is that there is a very strict breeding policy for "pure" Russian bees and most people can't or won't abide by the policies. We have had both pure and hybrid Russians and they don't sting any more than Italians or any other bees. In fact, we have had Italian bees that were much more aggressive than Russians.

It's funny to read all the difference opinions on here. Sometimes you just have mean bees and you need to requeen. It isn't the breed people. Not all Russian bees are going to be mite resistant. No bee is mite proof. If there was such a thing we would all have them and there wouldn't be any mites left.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

bentonkb said:


> You could be right, but they came from a TF breeder and all my other hives are TF, stocked with swarms from a feral colony in my neighbor's yard. They thrive without treatments. I've got no good reason to buy purebred bees when the local mutts are totally satisfactory.


Some of us may have different ideas about what is 'satisfactory'. Some folks are satisfied merely with the fact that their bees survive, while others (such as myself) rate satisfaction as including honey production. Bees that don't make a surplus for me (when conditions permit) are not satisfactory.

Do your bees produce a good surplus, in addition to 'thriving' without treatments?


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