# How does powdered sugar dusting work ???



## amymcg (Jan 13, 2005)

1) Yes
2) not quite, the mites have little suction cup feet, the dust causes them to not be able to stick so they fall off
3) Yes
4) Yes


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The research I've seen says they are not entirely certain, but there are theories.

>1) Causing the bees to groom each other ?

Most likely.

>2) suffocates the mites ?

Probably not. It might dry them out some.

>3) Bees clean the hive better and end up removing the mites in the process ?

Probably.

>4) All of them ??

Maybe.

Mostly as amy says, the mites can't hold on because the suction cups on their feet won't work.

Another theory is that the mites let go of the bees to attempt to groom themselves and this contributes to them getting groomed off also.


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

It will not kill the mites, if they can get out of it they survive quite nicely, so cleanup of the powdered sugar is important to rid the hives of the mites knocked off. Gather as much of it as you can and burn it.


----------



## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

>It will not kill the mites, if they can get out of it they survive quite nicely

I read somewhere that this technique was originally developed as a method to gather large numbers of live healthy mites for research. In fact if you re-sift the sugar w/mites your sifter will have a nice little ball of very lively mites. It's amazing how fast their little legs can move.

Personally, I get some sick satisfaction from pouring the sugar coated mites onto fire ant hills.


----------



## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

I am tempted to say, "Who cares, as long as it works?", but of course we should care and try to find out, as the mechanism may be important to help us develop other methods.

I now have one colony that has had no treatment other than natural cell + occasional dusting with powdered sugar for two seasons, in an area where mites are rsistant to pyrethroids. Looks promising.


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

If one goes back to the original work by
Fakhimzadeh (in ABJ 2000 or so), one learns
that for the powdered sugar to be effective,
one need particles in the range of 5 microns
to clog up the varroa tarsal pads, little
suction cups like things on their feet.

While some bees may show "grooming" behavior
in reaction to the sugar, this is not
required, as even bees that don't still have
serious numbers of mites drop off them.

Photomicrographs were included in both the
paper and the ABJ article showing the
clogging of their tarsal pads with the sugar,
so "how it works" has been well-understood
since the original paper.

The 2002 work by Macedo and Ellis was, ummm,
"derivative" work. They promoted the use of
sugar as a mere diagnostic tool, rather than
an approach to treatment. ("Using inert dusts 
to detect and access Varroa infestations in honey bee colonies", J. Apic. Res. 40(1-2): 3-7)

Dunno why so few people took Fakhimzadeh
seriously, I sure did.


----------



## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

I heard that the dust makes the mite sneeze and then they fall off?


----------



## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

[Fakhimzadeh] (noun: sound heard when mites sneeze.)

God bless you Jim!!


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Powdered sugar is nothing to sneeze at!


----------



## summersetretrievers (Mar 4, 2006)

Can you use powdered sugar from the grocery store? I heard there were anti caking agents in the sugar so you shouldn't use it. Is that just for feeding and for doing dusting it's okay?
Cindy


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Can you use powdered sugar from the grocery store?

Sure! 

> I heard there were anti caking agents in the 
> sugar so you shouldn't use it. 

Nope, that was and still is bogus info.
Plain old Domino's 10x works great.
The small amount of starch won't hurt anything.

The scare stories about the sugar killing open
brood were bogus, as people were remembering 
(or running across old comments) about that
problem from the days when antibiotics were 
mixed with powdered sugar (Terramycin®, which 
is oxy-tetracycline), and "dusted" on the hive.

Tetracycline can and will kill open brood.
Sugar won't kill anything.
Doesn't even kill the mites, it just makes them
loose their grip, and fall, which is why you
need a Vaseline-coated sticky board to trap
the little beasties, or they will crawl back
up into the hive after they clean off their 
tarsal pads.


----------



## blkcloud (May 25, 2005)

Use a sbb and they wont crawl back into the hive.


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Use a sbb and they wont crawl back into the hive.

Well, an sbb over a solid bottom will result in
mites crawling back up, something that was not
realized at first (when the sbb was developed 
at Beltsville). Turns out mites will walk
further, and climb higher than anyone thought.

An sbb over open ground, if the hive is on
some sort of base (cinderblocks, whatever)
will make the fall a one-way trip for the mites.


----------



## bbbbeeman (Jan 13, 2007)

Jim; I use the closed sbb with a oil tray < veg oil> under the screen, have used this for 7 years with no chemical in my hives, i run about 50 hives and only lose 3 or 4 a year. the mites fall of year round about every 6 weeks i well fog fgmo to dislodge them from the bees


----------



## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

hey jim-

"An sbb over open ground, if the hive is on
some sort of base (cinderblocks, whatever)
will make the fall a one-way trip for the mites."

How does this work?

thanks








-K-


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> How does this work?

Well, an SBB *without* a solid bottom under it
implies that the mites fall to the ground, and this
has shown to be far enough that the mites cannot
detect the pheromones that prompt them to crawl
back up into the hive. With a solid bottom below
the screened bottom, the mites can and will crawl
back up.

So, some folks staple a zig-zagging elastic cord
on the underside of their SBBs, and slide in a
mite-counting card or board between the screen
and the elastic cord, leaving the bottom open
at other times. I'm not sure that an open bottom
would be prudent in a Maine winter, but another
solution would be to coat the mite-drop board
with a thin layer of Vaseline, so that mites that
drop are trapped by the goo. (Use a plastic
plastering trowel to turn a blob of Vaseline into
a uniform thin layer.)


----------



## leamon (Mar 30, 2006)

Is there any reason not to dust as soon as the weather is warm enough? Can you combine inspection and dusting? How often do you dust?
thanks,
leamon


----------



## tim71 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi all,what is the best way to dust with powder sugar,


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

A hand powered flour sifter works well. Just open the hive and give it a bunch of sifts. For anybody worried about powdered sugar you can make it from regular sugar in a food processor.


----------



## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*certainly not at the price of sugar*

So Dr., what is your stand then, this is viable as a reducer of mites as suggested in the first study, or as a diagnostic tool alone? I am not clear as to where you stand.

Chrissy


----------



## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Regular Domino or whatever powdered sugar at store works.

Don't waste your time food processing, well unless you just really enjoy it. Jim's right, there is at least one study that looked directly at dusts and if they killed larvae. I posted it on here if you do a search you may find it.

Pretty much any dust they tried killed larvae except for Domino powdered sugar(which contains small amounts of cornstarch). Flour is one other dust tried that killed brood.


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Anybody try the Sucrocide spray? Non-toxic, kills mites and baised on the name I am betting that it is derived from sugar? What is the active ingredient?


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

LOL, GASTEVE, I like how your mind thinks....fireants...we don't have those here, but I would love to watch that, even just once!


----------

