# F-650, what size bed?



## Craig Weber (Nov 10, 2011)

I recently purchased a F-650 that I would like to liciense under 260000 lbs, the truck does not have a flat bed on it yet. I would like someones input on what length of bed works best on this model truck for optimal bee moving potential, while still operating safely. I use Double deep hives on 4 way pallets that are 33" wide. I am concidering either a 20' bed (7 rows, 3 high= 168 hives) or 17' (6 rows, 3 high=144 hives). The truck does have air brakes, any help would be appreciated, Thanks


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

What do you think the curb weight will be on that F650 once you add the flat bed. I am thinking that 168 hives will probably take you over that 26K poundage.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Intercontinental Truck Bodies.
They make the finest, strongest, and lightest beds for beekeeping.
Their aluminum beds weigh as much as HALF of what some steel beds weigh.
All of that saved weight equals more hives you can carry. And when you chose to take the 26k route, every pound counts.
Unfortunatly, they do not have pictures of flat beds on their site but I'll bet they will email you some.
Many of their beds are in use in Oregon and we are very happy with them.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

no one cannot answer this question without knowing the wheel base. how far is it from the back of the cab to the end of the frame. If the wheels are in the middle of the bed it will handle terrible. weight has to loaded so some is added to the front axle with more added to the rear axle. without this balance you will have trouble loading to get max weight to be legal. what is the empty wt. reguardless the rear wheels have to be back of the middle of the rack so some wt is added to the front axle when loaded.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

The F-650 has a titled GVWR of 26000. So it doesn't matter how much weight you acutally put on it as long as its </= 26000. Plus if your pulling a loader around the GVWR of the trailer will have to be added. My truck is has a 33,000 GVWR with an 18' bed and a 204" wheel base. My curb weight is around 12000 lbs. With 144 hives I'm at around 28500 lbs. With my swinger and trailer (about 6000 lbs) all togather my total gross is about 34500. Well above the CDL limit. My truck is a Freightliner FL-80.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

In ny if you pull a trailer they give an added 10,000 lbs to your gross reguardless of the type of trailer. this works in all the states you go thru with the new laws. so by hooking on to a trailer you can gross 36,000 without a cdl. as told by ny dot inspector.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

From what I here from a trucker friend who loves to haul bees, most weigh stations out here in the middle just wave you on thru as they don't want you stopping and getting them bee polluted. Who gets checked?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

First of all. You bought a truck and then want to decide how long a bed to build? Cart before horse?

What is the wheel base?
What is the GVWR?

I have an F-450 long wheelbase w/ 16,500 GVWR. My bed is 14ft and a cpl inches. Whatever 33inches times 5 is. And I pull a trailer w/ Bobcat Skidsteer Loader on it.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Beeware, That's only if the trailer isn't tagged for a weight. The acutally states that its the titled GVWR. I've had to argue with many a highly trained and undereducated DOT officer about it. The CDL law applies to the combination. If your truck is under the CDL and your trailer is 10001 GVWR then you need a class A otherwise you only need a class B with airbrakes.

Vance, I get checked often enough that I don't try to "see what I can get away with" anymore. At least once a month when we're in Michigan.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

dbest said:


> Beeware, That's only if the trailer isn't tagged for a weight. The acutally states that its the titled GVWR. I've had to argue with many a highly trained and undereducated DOT officer about it. The CDL law applies to the combination. If your truck is under the CDL and your trailer is 10001 GVWR then you need a class A otherwise you only need a class B with airbrakes.
> 
> Vance, I get checked often enough that I don't try to "see what I can get away with" anymore. At least once a month when we're in Michigan.


:no: A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is more than 26,000 pounds

You need a class A CDL

BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Craig Weber said:


> I recently purchased a F-650 that I would like to liciense under 260000 lbs the truck does not have a flat bed on it yet. I would like someones input on what length of bed works best on this model truck for optimal bee moving potential, while still operating safely. I use Double deep hives on 4 way pallets that are 33" wide. I am concidering either a 20' bed (7 rows, 3 high= 168 hives) or 17' (6 rows, 3 high=144 hives). The truck does have air brakes, any help would be appreciated, Thanks




WOW 260,000 lbs.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Um Jim...That's what I said...If the truck is under CDL and and your trailer is over 10001 then you need a class A If its not...which would be less than 26000...So I'm confused on what your wagging your finger at.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

dbest said:


> Um Jim...That's what I said...If the truck is under CDL
> If the truck is under CDL and and your trailer is over 10001 then you need a class A If its not...which would be less than 26000...So I'm confused on what your wagging your finger at.





Truck is 16,000 and your trailer is over 10001 GVWR of more than 26,000 you need a class A CDL the truck and the trailer are under CDL laws. 



BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

Class A is required to drive combination vehicles, such as tractor-trailers, with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the vehicle being towed has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,001 pounds or more. 


Class B is required to drive single vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds; the operator may tow a vehicle weighing 10,000 pounds GVWR or less.


Class C is for cars, vans, pickups, mopeds, and other vehicles with a GVWR of 26,000 pounds or less; allows towing of a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less. 


Endorsement J Allows Class C license to tow a vehicle over 10,000 pounds GVWR. 
Additional written and skills tests are required.


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## redbee (Dec 29, 2005)

need CDL ,class B should be all you need without air brakes


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

You do not need CDL if the 'truck' is rated for 26000 OR LESS, and you may pull a trailer with gvwr of 10000 OR LESS, and may pull a trailer with gvwr of 10001 OR MORE with J ENDORSEMENT
You do need a CDL if the "truck" is rated for 26001 OR MORE
Trailer rating is separate, we are not talking combination vehicles such as tractor-trailers


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Thermwood said:


> You do not need CDL if the 'truck' is rated for 26000 OR LESS, and you may pull a trailer with gvwr of 10000 OR LESS, and may pull a trailer with gvwr of 10001 OR MORE with J ENDORSEMENT
> You do need a CDL if the "truck" is rated for 26001 OR MORE
> Trailer rating is separate, we are not talking combination vehicles such as tractor-trailers


Or truck-trailer As a combination vehicles and no J ENDORSEMENT in MA.you do not need a ENDORSEMENT for RV


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

thermwood-- yes that is what I was told by a nys dot inspector. there are a lot of rumors out there. just be careful not to go over. then they got ya. your out of class and overweight.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

LOL here we go again. Just for fun lets throw in the the farm exemption!!
Nick


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

swarm_trapper said:


> LOL here we go again. Just for fun lets throw in the the farm exemption!!
> Nick


Ever feel like pounding your head into a wall? Happens to me all the time!


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

dbest said:


> Ever feel like pounding your head into a wall? Happens to me all the time!


So I am just getting big enough that I need the truck and this is very good info. Sorry that people feel like they are going over and over it again and again.

But, I am trying to keep under the CDL. But, lets say I had to do the CDL what do we recon it costs to get and maintain each year. Can you get it without having to goto truck drivers school? Sorry for being naive.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

swarm_trapper said:


> Just for fun lets throw in the the farm exemption!!


I thought you were going to say, "Just for fun lets throw Keith under the bus", but then I see he hasn't posted in this thread! :shhhh:


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Stop at your local DMV or whatever you have and ask for the CDL test study guide, read it, and make sure you can pass all the sample questions. Then go back in and take the written part. Next you have to schedule a road test with vehicle that compares to what your going to be driving (they can tell you where). They can also answer alot of your questions. getting your CDL is only the start of all the fun. The truck will need a host things depending on where you plan on going and how heavy it is. Once you get past the scary parts its not a bad way to go.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you have a CDL, don't you have to have an annual drug test? And submit an annual physical exam report?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

mark on your way north stop at a truck stop and pick up a federal reg rules book (green) there is a sect that applies to beekeepers. we do not have to have physicals or drug tests or a test for a employee. It is in there in black and white. we are still in pa at their state bee meeting. If I was home I could give the section number to look up. about time for you to get home. see ya next weekend.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Still almost a week left in the Sunny South. Having fun w/ Chuck and Co.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Intercontenental Truck Body.
DON"T BUY A HEAVY, HEAVY STEEL BED!!
Less fixed weight on your truck means MORE payload.
Here is a great example on an F-550:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/SowersTruck.jpg

I have the same bed on my F-450. Perfect!


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

HarryVanderpool said:


> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/SowersTruck.jpg
> 
> I have the same bed on my F-450. Perfect!


 Sure....post a pic of Sowers truck but not one of your hot rod....


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> If you have a CDL, don't you have to have an annual drug test? And submit an annual physical exam report?


That's only if your a trucking company. That falls under the ICCMC rules. The physical is every 3 years and cost about $50. It takes 15 minutes at any walk in clinic. You just carry it in your wallet and give it when asked by an officer. Its far easier than standing by the road attempting to educate a person who's brain has already reached its capacity.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

beeware10 said:


> mark on your way north stop at a truck stop and pick up a federal reg rules book (green) there is a sect that applies to beekeepers. we do not have to have physicals or drug tests or a test for a employee. It is in there in black and white. we are still in pa at their state bee meeting. If I was home I could give the section number to look up. about time for you to get home. see ya next weekend.


Its section 391.1 under general exemptions. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=391.2&keyword=apiarian


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Intercontenental Truck Body.
> DON"T BUY A HEAVY, HEAVY STEEL BED!!
> Less fixed weight on your truck means MORE payload.


Here is one I had custom made, even has aluminum tool boxes on drivers side. The builder estimated it is about 1300 lbs. lighter than a steel one of the same size.
http://s470.photobucket.com/albums/rr66/jimlyon/Bee stuff/?action=view&current=IMG_0008.jpg


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

WOW! Nice job and cool picture!
Not to get off topic but I was noticing your trailer.
Very well engineered and light weight.
The guys that build trailers around here have one solution to every problem; throw more steel at it.
They all weigh probably 3 times what yours does.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Looks like one of Deans. 
http://www.hummerbee.com/trailers.html


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

dbest said:


> Looks like one of Deans.
> http://www.hummerbee.com/trailers.html


Yeah we really like it. It was. The first load of nucs that we hauled with the truck and couldn't resist snapping a pic with my phone. Shhhhhh don't let Keith know that I went with another Hummer instead of one of those lousy overbuilt Swingers.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

swarm_trapper said:


> LOL here we go again. Just for fun lets throw in the the farm exemption!!
> Nick





No farm exemption on a CDL I know of for being out of class and overweight.


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## LT (Aug 17, 2006)

Great pics and set up Jim. What size bed? Thx


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So Craig,
Did you decide what size and type of bed you are going to put on your truck? If you are going to use it alot, I would suggest you add tool boxes. 

I have two on one side and one one the drivers' side, w/ a small one for smokers also on the drivers side. I like having them set back close to the frame of the truck. It's a little inconvenient if you can't bend and reach real well, but you are less apt to catch a stump or tree and being able to drive ones loader right tight up against the truck, and not hit the tool box, is nice.

My Smoker Box is 12"X18" I believe. I can stand 3 smokers in it. I plug them between yds.


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## WG Bee Farm (Jan 29, 2005)

I am Curious; how much weight do you allow for 4-hives dbl brood box and their pallet. I have not heard any one mention this data, yet; unless I missed it.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I figure 115 lbs per hive going to CA and 125 coming home.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Anyone seen a scale you can put a 4 way pallet on to test weight? One that we could afford.?


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Anyone seen a scale you can put a 4 way pallet on to test weight? One that we could afford.?


Get a curb weight on your truck then load a few pallets on and drive down to the truck stop... grain elevator... wherever and get a gross weight... subtract and divide.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Anyone seen a scale you can put a 4 way pallet on to test weight? One that we could afford.?


Are you concerned about overloading your truck? I carry 20 4way dbls on my F-450, pulling a trailer w/ a Bobcat. Seems to do the job.

You can always load it and weigh it. Then take some off if overloaded. Find a rock quarry or cement plant or feed scale for trucks.


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## LSBees (Sep 24, 2009)

Thermwood, Doesn't Nevada require a Air Brake endorsement and that endorsement is only available for Class A & Class B? licenses? I have run into problems over here in Carson with a non CDL truck with air brakes?????????? Do they allow it in Fallon?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

WG Bee Farm said:


> I am Curious; how much weight do you allow for 4-hives dbl brood box and their pallet. I have not heard any one mention this data, yet; unless I missed it.


Usually in the 400 to 450 lb. range. Don't need no stinking scale though, just load them until the mud flaps drag and then take a few off. 
LT: That is a 14' bed. the 190" wheelbase is a perfect fit for it.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> don't let Keith know that I went with another Hummer instead of one of those lousy overbuilt Swingers.


Swinger, saw a demo at the Calif state meeting. Lets see...the last guys that I saw test drive the 1K machine there said "Dean is not going to like me when he finds out that I canceled my hummer bee machine. 

Me thinks Mark Brown sold lots swingers at that show, those silly keepers. 

P. S. $30,000 1k swinger at the show..... no brainer!


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