# Bottom Board question



## BeeHoosier (Feb 21, 2016)

Debating between a solid or a screened bottom board for a langstroth hive. As far as using a screened bottom board, I understand that they are beneficial when monitoring or treating mites and can be useful for ventilation at times, but my concern is during colder weather. Even with the small slide-in insert that can sometimes be used with a screened board, is that thick enough to make a difference for the hive? A solid bottom board would make the hive temp easier to regulate (I would assume) since it is not as exposed to the outside air so it seems like that would be the better bet, but would it create other problems or hassles with mites or anything else that I may be overlooking?

Overall, being in the Midwest would I be better off getting a solid bottom or a screened bottom?


----------



## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

A good wind break during the winter would be more important than the type of bottom board. Bottom boards are a very personal choice and there are many threads where they are discussed. I use solid bottom boards when I hive swarms, for about a month then switch to a screened bottom. I close the mite board in winter but people in Northern areas may leave them open in winter. The bees will keep a solid bottom clean where trash will fall through the screened board, to the ground if the mite board is not in. If you leave the mite board in, you need to clean it occasionally. The bees don't have any problems keeping a hive ventilated with a solid bottom, in fact it may be easier to ventilate.


----------



## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

I always leave the mite board in sprayed with cooking oil clean it every week counting the mites oil it again. You will know how the mites are increasing.


----------



## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Up here where the temps have reached -25F for prolonged periods and winds can reach 80mph or better at times, I use solid bottoms in the Winter and screened bottoms in the Summer. It's extra effort, but I feel that it is worthwhile. It's a personal choice, YMMV.


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm in northern NY and I use a screened board on top of my solid bottom board so I can always have the benefits of both. I really like being able to monitor the relative number of mites dropping each week (and I paw through the hive trash to learn what's up with the bees.)

Although I know some people up here do, I would not want my bees to winter only over a SBB, even with the insert tray inserted in the winter. I also don't like to have nosy, would-be robber bees pestering my girls looking for a way in through the bottom of the hive (even though there isn't one.) I like my bees to feel secure in their home. 

Yet, I really appreciate the usefulness of the screened board, too. I don't think it does anything really significant in terms of remediating, or even tamping down a mite population, but it sure allows me to run a test for them every single week of the year. Nothing cheers me up more than to see weekly evidence that my mite program has things under control. Plus there's the thrill in late-winter when I start seeing the first sparkles from fresh wax scales which tells me I have a laying queen, again, sometimes months before it would be warm enough to try an inspection to verify my colony is still QR.

So for those reasons it's worth the additional $20 per colony to have the extra board in place. Figure a well-painted board lasts for at least 6 years (mine are now three years old and in perfect condition), then my annualized cost is less than a penny per day for added the reassurance, confidence and pleasure I gain from having the pair, rather one or the other.

YMMV,

Enjambres


----------



## exmar (Apr 30, 2015)

FWIW, my mentor who has had as many as 300 hives, and now is down to about 30 (he's in his 70's) has a standard configuration which I copied. Two concrete blocks, a solid square piece of concrete on them, Screen bottom board on that. We're in SE Ohio so don't see the extreme cold some of you folks do. Not an expert on bottom boards, but what we use has the BB in the middle of two "rails," one side has a wooden strip across one end which is down for the summer and up (blocking wind from one side) during the winter.


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

I just finished mocking up the first of several modified IPM bottom boards. You can view the plans here on BS: http://beesource.com/build-it-yourself/ipm-screen-bottom-board/

I'll post some pics, with the modifications I decided to make. It's pretty simple to build one over a solid bottom, with a drawer under the screen, to provide adjustable ventilation; a cookie sheet for both mite monitoring & capture; as well as SHB ( I think- I don't have them). The drawer can also be removed to simplify OAV treatments.

Now that I see them, I'm with Enj - hard to imagine that I've gone this long without at least a few to ease mite monitoring, if not one on every hive (the now near-term plan). I guess that's what happens when you pick up $200 worth of 1"x 's for $5. My mock up probably cost me ~ 10 cents.


----------



## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

I'm in central Texas. We get consistent winds Either Northerly or Southern. 35MPH at times and mostly 10 to 15 is common. 1st yr bee keeper. I will never use a screen bottom board with that political signage piece that slides out again. It's too much wind for the bees. A sliding tray screened bottom board closes off the draft and allows the same benefit. Even with temps in the triple digits any breeze is too much on the bees when they're trying to regulate the temp for brood. My bee hive of coarse is 32" off the ground on a metal pipe stand. I just don't want to bend over doing work on the hives.


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

My view of SBB is that they were popular when we were desperate to find ways to defeat the varroa mite. SBBs allow mites to drop out of the hive, and that was thought to be a step forward. 

Some subsequent research has cast doubt on the efficacy of the SBB for mite reduction. Mite drop counts to monitor mite population have not proven valid enough to trust. I've read many accounts of new beekeepers watching mite drops and thinking their bees had low mite counts, but many hives have been lost in the end. Better to do the roll tests.

There is no doubt that, in the early spring, a solid BB allows earlier brood rearing. Only a sugar or ether roll will give you a good prediction of mite populations. Many, many beekeepers have gone back to solid bottom boards. FWIW, before I switched back to solid bottom boards, I would switch bottom boards from solid to screened as the year progressed and seasons changed. 

Not looking back & using solid bottom boards, I'm looking for valid mite checks in the form of sugar or ether rolls, then treating for mites, and using IPM methods (except for screened bottom boards). JMO

Best of luck to you!


----------



## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Lburou said:


> Not looking back & using solid bottom boards, I'm looking for valid mite checks in the form of sugar or ether rolls, then treating for mites, and using IPM methods (except for screened bottom boards). JMO


In my advancing age, I am preferring simplicity in this matter, I'm not doing rolls or washes. I am assuming that the mites are there, and that I will hit them with FA once or twice a year. The screened bottoms and check boards are just to keep an eye on things, and to observe/compare the body count after. I don't need to know a precise number/ratio/percentage.


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> ...I'm not doing rolls or washes. I am assuming that the mites are there, and that I will hit them with FA once or twice a year...I don't need to know a precise number/ratio/percentage.


Won't criticize you for that. 

That was our philosophy forty years ago when we prophylactically treated for AFB using terramycin.


----------



## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

GaryG74 said:


> A good wind break during the winter would be more important than the type of bottom board.


I've used screened bottom boards for years and usually leave them open year 'round. The only time I slide in the insert is when I'm doing a mite count.
You're a bit further north than I am. I'd recommend getting involved with a local club & asking nearby beeks what they usually do. The Northeastern club is near you: http://www.neiba.info/


----------



## twgun1 (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm in the uppermidwest, zone 4b. Long Cold windy winters on the prairie. I used screened bottom boards year round, tray in place for winter. My hives are on cement blocks but the grass grows up around the sides and stops the draft and hives are situated with a natural wind block. Dead bees pile up on the floor through winter and block a lot of the screen anyway. I do clean the bottom out first nice day (did it 2 weeks ago) 

I too love to examine the "trash" too. Can learn SO much about what's going on inside. I check mine once per week all winter.


----------



## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

Colobee said:


> I'll post some pics, with the modifications I decided to make. It's pretty simple to build one over a solid bottom, with a drawer under the screen, to provide adjustable ventilation; a cookie sheet for both mite monitoring & capture; as well as SHB ( I think- I don't have them). The drawer can also be removed to simplify OAV treatments.


What size cookie sheet did you find that works well. I am constantly measuring pans, trays, etc to find one that will work. I use SBB but without the "rim" to nail the screen to. It's a race track that Beatles go round and round on. I want them to fall through. I wish someone made a queen excluder type thing that was made with closer bars so you could use it as a SBB. Would be handy.


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

This is still a work in progress, it may be subject to minor changes but... 

I "reversed engineered" the drawer with a standard size "borrowed" cookie sheet: 















As I have a number of old-spare QE's, I used one for the "screen".








The drawer has also undergone a revision to include a screen ventilation option:


----------



## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

Looks good. Please keep me posted on what you think of using the QE as a bottom screen.


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Lburou said:


> Won't criticize you for that.
> 
> That was our philosophy forty years ago when we prophylactically treated for AFB using terramycin.


 BTDT. 

If you have a mite problem, they will drop, dead or alive. Sugar rolls appear to be the least effective way of monitoring, although everything is "relative". If you're building new bottom boards anyway, like I am, there's little reason not to build one that can monitor relative mite drop AND provide an easier way to OAV in the same step. Providing an additional screened ventilation option is a relatively simple "no/some brainer"...


----------



## NY14804 (Feb 8, 2016)

I'm currently in the process of building & tweaking a one piece, "combination hive stand" featuring a slide out screened bottom board and a slide out IPM trayboard for two hives. Basically it is a typical looking hive stand with the angled landing board at the front, a 3/4" thick framed screen bottom board insert and a 1/4" thick plywood IPM trayboard beneath the screened frame.

The trayboard will have a drawer front attached to it, so pulling the drawer front away from the back of the hive will remove it to allow inspection of a sticky mat laying on it or to clean and refill a shallow oil filled pest catch tray laying on top of it.

The screened bottom board can also slide out if desired (after the tray board is removed) to allow cleaning, inspection or replacement of it with a slide in 3/4" thick plywood (or 3/4" thick insulation board) solid bottom board.

The back and bottom of the hive will be closed up when all the pieces are installed. Removing the drawer front with the attached 1/4" plywood IPM tray will allow free air flow through screened bottom board.

I'll likely have to bend up shallow shallow metal pest trays for using the oil, because finding cookie sheets the needed size is pretty difficult. 

That's my plan, anyways. I'll see how it works out...


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> In my advancing age, I am preferring simplicity in this matter,


I'm with you on that. :thumbsup: Love to keep it simple




BadBeeKeeper said:


> I'm not doing rolls or washes. I am assuming that the mites are there, ... I don't need to know a precise number/ratio/percentage.


I used to do sugar rolls ad nauseam, and the results were always the same.... need to treat for mites. The only thing I check now is the sticky board after treatments. There are "always" mites on the boards, but I can quickly determine which colonies had a greater infestation. I just treat with OA on a seasonal schedule and spend my former "sugar roll' time doing other productive things. 

The ratios and percentages derived from rolls mean very little to me either. Some areas may not have as much mite pressure and can get away with not treating if their mite counts are low, but unfortunately it's not that way here. Stark County seems to be the mite Capitol of the state. It's either treat .. or dead bees.


----------



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

You can close a screened bottom board up. Then you have both. You dont have to keep the screen open if you dont want. Its easily closed.


----------



## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

I use screened BBs that do not have a mite tray, I buy them from Dadant. I mount 3/8 inch strips on my hive stand and set the BBs on the strips. I cut 3/8 in plywood pieces to slide between the strips to allow me to close off the screens when needed and check the various droppings. I paint them white to help identify mites. When I do my OAV treatments I replace the 3/8 inch piece with a 1/8 piece and that allows me to insert my vaporizer under the screened BB from the rear of the hive and I do not disturb the bees.


----------



## BeeHoosier (Feb 21, 2016)

For those that do use a solid bottom board, how easy or possible is it to use sticky boards?


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

BeeHoosier said:


> For those that do use a solid bottom board, how easy or possible is it to use sticky boards?


Quite simple.

Get a piece of templast(I call it plastic cardboard used for political signs) slightly smaller than interior hive size.

Cover with a light coating of canola oil, vegetable oil, or Vaseline.

Cover with a piece of 1/8 mesh so bees don't walk in the oil.

Hold the screen in place by making "bobby pins" out of wire. Insert them in the square tubing of templast.

Remove the entrance reducer and slide them in.


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Here's a picture

"Bobby pins" are approx 3 3/4 inches long. Household electrical wire works well as it is copper and bends quite easily.









I also made a hooked wire to insert and catch the wire mesh to pull the templast out.


----------



## BeeHoosier (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks for the detailed info and pic mgolden. Seems like a solid board will be my best bet at this point.


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Mike Gillmore said:


> ...I just treat with OA on a seasonal schedule and spend my former "sugar roll' time doing other productive things...


Have you ever experimented with Formic acid to vary your treatments Mike?


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Yes, I tried it a few years back. 
Formic is a very effective treatment, but I found it to be rough on the queens and the timing on ambient temperature ranges required for treatment do not really work for me. OA has been working fine for years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, is my philosophy. By the time the bees become resistant to Oxalic Acid (which I don't believe will ever happen), some brilliant young scientist will have developed a new and improved mite treatment and OA will fall by the wayside. I'll be gone and the next generation will take over with better ideas. Until then, I'll keep my bees alive.


----------



## pinkpantherbeekeeper (Feb 10, 2016)

The OP was asking about temperatures related to the bottom boards. I was wondering how well a slatted rack works at helping prevent drafts in conjunction to a screened bottom board? Has anyone seen stronger overwintered hives?


----------

