# building a TBH



## pumpkinpiper (Mar 3, 2004)

I'm in my 6th year of being a beek, and thought I'd like to try a tbh. In reading about different designs, it looks like some folks say you need to have angled side ways and others say sidewalls can be angled or straight verticle. Any opinions on this would be appreciated. Pro/cons also. thanks. PP


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## Scut Farkas (Jun 7, 2007)

pumpkinpiper said:


> I'm in my 6th year of being a beek, and thought I'd like to try a tbh. In reading about different designs, it looks like some folks say you need to have angled side ways and others say sidewalls can be angled or straight verticle. Any opinions on this would be appreciated. Pro/cons also. thanks. PP


I've been in a situation where I can't start beekeeping yet, but will soon. In the meantime I've done nothing but read. I went from wanting Langs, to Kenyan TBH's and now to the Abbe Warre design. Check out Biobees.com. There are a lot of good reasons to use that design. Specifically, there is very little opening of the hive, the design retains hive scent and is well designed to keep humidity levels just right.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

"Question: Does a KTBH have less attachments than a TTBH?

"Answer: In my experience no. I only know of one TBH beekeeper who actually seems to think so. Most have had the same experience as I have, which is that they do little attachment either way."

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

*advantages of sloped sided TBH*



pumpkinpiper said:


> I'm in my 6th year of being a beek, and thought I'd like to try a tbh. In reading about different designs, it looks like some folks say you need to have angled side ways and others say sidewalls can be angled or straight verticle. Any opinions on this would be appreciated. Pro/cons also. thanks. PP


IMO sloped sides have the following advantages:

1. For the dimensions in which I have built different TBHs, the bees definitely attached less in the sloped sided boxes. (I think I must be Michael's exception!)
2. The comb is more stable because the centre of gravity is higher. Another way of saying this is that, for any given weight of comb, there is a greater area attached to the top bar. This makes it less likely to break off when you handle it.
3. The enclosed shape more closely approximates the natural shape of free comb.
4. The thermodynamics of a sloped sided box means that a larger volume of warm air is retained at the top, compared with overall volume and there is less 'dead' or un-heatable air in the box.
5. Using central, side entrances (as I do) the overhang provides natural shelter to bees and keeps rain and snow out of the entrance.
6. The smaller base reduces by approximately two thirds the cost of flooring screen/mesh, if that is what you use for floors. Actually, whatever you use, there is less of it.


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## RBar (Jun 22, 2005)

*Agree with Buckbee above...*

Good information.
The one TBH I had success with (up to a point...) was sloped sides, and probably eventually failed because of me, not them...trued to divide too soon. (TBHs DO involve a different thinking philosophy than traditional boxes.)
New folks to TBHs: Read this forum extensively before any trying it. 
(For example, somewhere I left instructions on how to remove unwanted hornets that moved in on one of my bait TBHs...maybe in the "what NOT to do" category.)
The attachment problem is not a problem though. Simply take an old (or new) hacksaw blade with you and leave under the rook of the TBH. Take out a combless back bar and work forward, until you start to reach attached comb. Then just reach in with the blade laid against the sides to detach the two or three strings of wax that they used to fasten the next comb to the sides..just takes an extra second or two.
Interestingly, mine really never reattached many after I did this initially...not sure why. Maybe they use this when the combs are freshest and figure when built they don't need them...not sure.

RBAR


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## dmacmtb (Jan 9, 2008)

*A thought*

Total noob here to TBH's, beekeeping, & woodworking... but seems it would be simple enough to build the tanzian/long hive box with a couple of raised slats lengthwise on the bottom against which you could rest angled boards on both sides to create removable sloped sides. 

[\_/]

Blocker slats would go where the slashes meet the narrow center bottom and the slashes simply are rested back against the side frame.

???

-dmac


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

*top bar hive plans*

Or see http://www.biobees.com/images/build_top_bar_hive/ - or many other plans on the web.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Interestingly, mine really never reattached many after I did this initially...not sure why

Exactly.


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## MIKI (Aug 15, 2003)

I like both and will use both but my TTBH's attach every inch of the sides and my KTBH's have spotty attachments. Don't know why either but I just trust the bees know what they are doing.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

pumpkinpiper said:


> I'm in my 6th year of being a beek, and thought I'd like to try a tbh. In reading about different designs, it looks like some folks say you need to have angled side ways and others say sidewalls can be angled or straight verticle. Any opinions on this would be appreciated. Pro/cons also. thanks. PP


My TBH's have angled sides. They have about a 19 inch drop from the bar to the bottom of the comb. I have never had an issue with comb stuck to the sides. I'll have to remeasure the angle as off-hand I forget. I have never had a comb drop.

I have thought about using a trench type TBH just for comb starter/production and will probably build a couple this coming month.

I think much of the comb attaching issues of a tbh deals with smaller versions of a tbh. You can see in some of the website pictures that people have, that some TBH's are on the smaller scale. And although they may be better for moving, I suspect they tend to lead to attached sides. I have tried to remove comb from another person TBH once and with the cutting, it made it very unpleasant and difficult to work the hive. Of all the things that will or could make a tbh not worth doing, is always dealing with attached comb issues.

I'll be running over to the farm today, and will get a few pictures and measurements.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Of course I forgot my camera today at the farm. But I grabbed a top bar to measure. If you draw this on a sheet of paper,...

I have a 20 inch bar sitting on cleat screwed to the side of the hive. 19 inches of the bars are exposed to the bees for comb building. The drop to the bottom of their hive is 19inches. There is a four inch bottom. So the angled sides measure close to 20-1/2 inches long. It works out to a 12/5 pitch if you know what that means. With this dimension, I do not get side attachment. The comb is about 17 inches long, and I have never had a comb drop. I really think this is about the max in size as anything bigger will make comb drop an issue in warm weather. I'm not sure if it was BWrangler or another, but someone else runs one this size also.

My TBH design also has a 4 inch dead space above the bars where I store extra bars, it acts as a inner cover for heat issues, and makes it much bigger than it needs to be. I also have fed from this area when I started them out. Since I don't intend on moving them, this really is my model for more in the future.

I wish now I had added a picture to my website....  Its on the list.


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