# Creamed Honey



## bob393

Silly question, 
The Dadant 1 LB Starter for Creamed Honey M01330, Any idea how many pounds of liquid honey that would convert?


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## Specialkayme

bob393 said:


> Any idea how many pounds of liquid honey that would convert?


You use it as a seed, and add it to liquid honey (obviously). The percentage of "seed" to "liquid" varies from beekeeper to beekeeper, and recipe to recipe. Most recipes will say add 10-25% "seed." The more seed you add, the faster it turns to creamed honey. 

So, 1 lb of "seed" will make anywhere between 4 and 10 lbs of creamed honey, depending on how you want to use it.

But the end result ends up being your "seed" for the next batch. So . . . in reality the "seed" you buy could make you an infinite amount of creamed honey . .


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## bob393

So you wouldn't use say 6 lb of the dry starter seed to make a 5 gal pail of creamed honey, 60 lb, and bottle it?

You would scale it up making say 10 lb of starter honey from 1 lb of dry and then add that to say 100 lb of liquid honey and bottle that?

Bottom line is you would treat 1 lb of dry seed the same way you would use 1 lb of creamed honey for a starter, in the same proportions?


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## Specialkayme

bob393 said:


> So you wouldn't use say 6 lb of the dry starter seed to make a 5 gal pail of creamed honey, 60 lb, and bottle it?
> 
> You would scale it up making say 10 lb of starter honey from 1 lb of dry and then add that to say 100 lb of liquid honey and bottle that?


You could do either. I'm cheap, so I'd do the first way. But it adds more time to your finished product. 

You could also go to the grocery store and find some good creamed honey and use that as your starter. Just make sure the crystals are small enough. You may be able to get it cheaper from the grocery store than from dadant, shipping considered (unless you were placing an order anyway).



bob393 said:


> Bottom line is you would treat 1 lb of dry seed the same way you would use 1 lb of creamed honey for a starter, in the same proportions?


Correct.

Granted, I've never purchased Dadant's product. But it's actually labeled as Creamed Honey . . . . "Starter" so I'm 99% sure its just a pound of creamed honey


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## GaSteve

https://www.dadant.com/catalog/m01330-1lb-starter-for-creamed-honey

If it's this product, it's not creamed honey. I believe it's pure powdered dextrose (aka glucose). I would imagine it would reduce the moisture content of the final product. It might work for a wetter honey. Added to a dry honey, it may make the final product too stiff to be spreadable.


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## aunt betty

GaSteve said:


> https://www.dadant.com/catalog/m01330-1lb-starter-for-creamed-honey
> 
> If it's this product, it's not creamed honey. I believe it's pure powdered dextrose (aka glucose). I would imagine it would reduce the moisture content of the final product. It might work for a wetter honey. Added to a dry honey, it may make the final product too stiff to be spreadable.


Had some in the refrigerator that crystalized onn it's own. Been using it for seed. 
Have only done a few jars. What I did was take a tea spoon of seed and mixed it into a pint of honey. Fifty degree refrigerator for three weeks and it's done.


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## bob393

GaSteve said:


> https://www.dadant.com/catalog/m01330-1lb-starter-for-creamed-honey
> 
> If it's this product, it's not creamed honey. I believe it's pure powdered dextrose (aka glucose). I would imagine it would reduce the moisture content of the final product. It might work for a wetter honey. Added to a dry honey, it may make the final product too stiff to be spreadable.


I assumed it was ground crystallized honey, if it's no than it's not the product I'm looking for. Thanks for the catch!

I have many sources of quality honey starter locally so I guess that's the rout I'll be going. I'm looking to start off with a 5 gal batch around 60 lb so my understanding is that will take 6 lb of starter. I'm on the right tract correct?


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## clyderoad

bob393 said:


> I assumed it was ground crystallized honey, if it's no than it's not the product I'm looking for. Thanks for the catch!
> 
> I have many sources of quality honey starter locally so I guess that's the rout I'll be going. I'm looking to start off with a 5 gal batch around 60 lb so my understanding is that will take 6 lb of starter. I'm on the right tract correct?


You are on the right track.

One other thing is that the crystal size of the creamed honey you make and then set aside from each successive batch to use as starter for the next batch will tend to get larger and larger. At some point it's likely to get grainy. Very light honey lends itself better to creaminess and the starter pulled from it for the next batch will extend the time it becomes to grainy to make the 'classic' textured creamy honey.
To ensure consistency over time the large makers of creamed honey grind the starter to their preferred crystal size before using.


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## ABruce

clyderoad said:


> You are on the right track.
> 
> One other thing is that the crystal size of the creamed honey you make and then set aside from each successive batch to use as starter for the next batch will tend to get larger and larger. At some point it's likely to get grainy. Very light honey lends itself better to creaminess and the starter pulled from it for the next batch will extend the time it becomes to grainy to make the 'classic' textured creamy honey.
> To ensure consistency over time the large makers of creamed honey grind the starter to their preferred crystal size before using.


Hi, How does one "grind the creamed honey "I want to make my own creamed honey and am trying to find out as much as I can. thanks


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## clyderoad

ABruce said:


> Hi, How does one "grind the creamed honey "I want to make my own creamed honey and am trying to find out as much as I can. thanks


With a flour mill type grinder. I learned the finer points of making creamed honey from a fellow who's family made it from the time (before?) of Dyce. They've got it down pat.
I couldn't find an appropriate mill to grind my seed with, and also didn't want to heat my honey. The process seemed to complicated for me, although the final product was perfect in my eye and was what I was interested in making.
When I began making my own I used, and still do use, a much more simple method. I cream the lightest honey I harvest each year and use the lightest of the light to seed with the most perfect example of creamed honey I can find. Sometimes I buy the seed, other times it's given to me and there are times where I pull seed from my batches to use the next year. Pulling seed from my own batches of creamed honey is easy and cost effective but it tends to get grainy with each successive batch and if darker honeys are used from the outset the graininess will occur faster and the mouth feel of the final product is not acceptable to me. 
I don't heat my honey during the process and cream as much as I think I need before the honey begins to crystallize naturally. I do mature the honey in a chiller at 57*f until set up.
I don't pretend to produce a replica of what the 'big guys' make, but it's my version of creamed honey and it's soft, creamy with good mouth feel and flavor, and visually appealing. 
My customers love it and I'm happy with it.


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## ABruce

clyderoad said:


> With a flour mill type grinder. I learned the finer points of making creamed honey from a fellow who's family made it from the time (before?) of Dyce. They've got it down pat.
> I couldn't find an appropriate mill to grind my seed with, and also didn't want to heat my honey. The process seemed to complicated for me, although the final product was perfect in my eye and was what I was interested in making.
> When I began making my own I used, and still do use, a much more simple method. I cream the lightest honey I harvest each year and use the lightest of the light to seed with the most perfect example of creamed honey I can find. Sometimes I buy the seed, other times it's given to me and there are times where I pull seed from my batches to use the next year. Pulling seed from my own batches of creamed honey is easy and cost effective but it tends to get grainy with each successive batch and if darker honeys are used from the outset the graininess will occur faster and the mouth feel of the final product is not acceptable to me.
> I don't heat my honey during the process and cream as much as I think I need before the honey begins to crystallize naturally. I do mature the honey in a chiller at 57*f until set up.
> I don't pretend to produce a replica of what the 'big guys' make, but it's my version of creamed honey and it's soft, creamy with good mouth feel and flavor, and visually appealing.
> My customers love it and I'm happy with it.


thankyou for the detailed response , its very helpful


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## bob393

clyderoad said:


> You are on the right track.
> 
> One other thing is that the crystal size of the creamed honey you make and then set aside from each successive batch to use as starter for the next batch will tend to get larger and larger. At some point it's likely to get grainy. Very light honey lends itself better to creaminess and the starter pulled from it for the next batch will extend the time it becomes to grainy to make the 'classic' textured creamy honey.
> To ensure consistency over time the large makers of creamed honey grind the starter to their preferred crystal size before using.


Thank you, That's good to know. I'll be making 60 lb batches for now so we will see how fast they sell and how many restarts it takes for it to become a problem.


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## Don Warren

The Norfolk Honey Co. has a great video on youtube on "How to make creamed honey using the Dyce method". It covers the procedure for grinding the crystals to get the absolutely creamiest product possible. (I think I read somewhere that Dyce received a patent for his method for making creamed honey.) I plan on using his method later this winter.


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