# Honey Press - how good are they?



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Unless you are planning on doing crush and strain. Witch make a lot of work for the bees. Meaning less honey. My gut tells me that most of that type of thing would be to small. Unless it was big enough to do wine.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Have a look at my thread on honey filtering using Mann Lake HH380 filter bag. It works for extracted honey and I also use it to get the honey out of my cappings which would be very similar to crush and strain. A day of dripping gets most and a bit of squeezing gets more.

https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...-Filtering!&highlight=easiest+honey+filtering

Six or eight deep frames should be just a nice batch for one of these filters. Easy to store.


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## Honeyeater (Jun 21, 2020)

I like the simplicity of that filter bag. What I want to avoid with a honey press is the day of dripping waiting for all the honey to drip out. It still is a very rudimentary apparatus (unlike my Flow Hives where many things can go wrong)

On further research the biggest one of those presses should be able to take 6-8 frames. It has large holes in the inside bucket and after pressing I think it should be all good in an hour. Very easy to clean too - just hose it off on the lawn, after you let the bees take most of the left over.

I am also aware of the fact that like crush and strain, there are no stickies to return, so the bees have to start from scratch. I'm not really counting kilos of honey, this is just a hobby but I'm still not 100% sure that will make much difference anyway.

My experience is limited, and I generally just use full sheets of foundation, but I did start off with foundationless/starter-strips. I cannot really say with certainty that bees take much longer when they have to build comb too. It did appear to me that once the colony is strong and there is a nectar flow, they will build comb like there is no tomorrow. They actually amaze me with the speed they build it when they need it. The main advantage I see with foundation is the straight comb they build.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

What's the advantage of pressing over crush-and-strain ? Less sticky paws I guess, but that is offset by the press's price-tag - and the need to find somewhere to store it when it's not being used.
LJ


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## Honeyeater (Jun 21, 2020)

I thought it would be a lot faster pressing than crushing and straining. 

I haven’t done either, that’s why I’m asking.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

I have done both (sort of).
Mincing and draining vs. mashing and draining (using a potato masher).

So, mincing and draining is faster and easier *overall *AND leaves drier residue also.

Reason - the while mashing produces faster results *initially* but - the mashing also plugs up the utensils and captures a lot of honey in the residue.
And so you end up doing and redoing and redoing this again to dry the residue better.

Mincing (i.e. fine chopping) of the combs and NO pressing them - drains the combs really well with minimal effort (in warm conditions).

Now, these are cheap, kitchen projects done regular utensils.
The press should apply lots of force to dry the residue on the very first pass - so that should work well.
I thought of buying a press and every time turned the idea down - not worth it for me (even if I factored in fruit/berry pressing).
Just too expensive for a limited use device.
A press is just a little bit better than the honey extractor since it has a multi-use property.
The honey extractor is a single-use and expensive device for a *small-scale beekeeper*; hobby beekeepers don't really need that money-waste no matter what they are told (unless they are awash in disposable cash).


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> What's the advantage of pressing over crush-and-strain ? Less sticky paws I guess, but that is offset by the press's price-tag - and the need to find somewhere to store it when it's not being used.
> LJ


If I did not care about cash, I'd get one.
But I do care for cash!

These expensive gizmos would turn my honey and fruit/berry products into "golden" by price.
At that rate why even bother?
I do these things to keep my own produce cheap while making it of the highest quality.
If my own produce turns into gold due to the expenses, I'd rather just buy the produce and waste my precious time elsewhere.

With only two hives allowed, Honeyeater, you seem to be looking for ways to just spend your cash for the convenience - how I see it.
Just get the high quality press and don't worry - it will work. 
Sounds like the cost is a non-issue for you.


This is my favorite site for the presses - since I grow apples
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/fruit-presses/fruit-presses


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Dunno how relevant this is but Greg posted a while back about a small-scale DIY extractor - I don't know what the outcome of the thread was, or how relevant it might be - but just thought I'd mention it.

The other possible lead also comes from Greg - he posted some time back about methods of extracting wax. 
There was one video link in particular which was nothing short of brilliant - a Russian/Ukranian guy boiled-up a load of old wax combs and then placed them into a fruit-press type of bag. This he 'sealed' by twisting it's opening, then placed it on his home-made press. It's this press which is the important bit of the story.

It was made of heavy wood and looked not unlike the stand which shoe-shine boys use. At one end a heavy plank was hinged to this 'stand'. Now comes the good bit. He places the bag of steaming wax combs on top of this 'stand', and brings the hinged plank down on top of it. Then - none of your hydraulic rams or screw methods of exerting pressure on the bag - he just simply stands on top of it ! The hot wax comes running out of the bag and exits the press via a channel. I can see no earthly reason why the same principle could not be used to press honey from combs which have been cut from their frames.
'best
LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> ....
> Dunno how relevant this is but Greg posted a while back about a small-scale DIY extractor....
> LJ


I made one for about $20 last year (the food-grade buckets I got for free).
Thinking of some "improvements" to it to reduce the honey/air mixing, but unsure I will even use it this year - not enough honey to even bother with the cleanup.
Will just C&S small batches in the kitchen, as I need them (I prefer keeping the honey directly in the combs just until I need 2-3 jars of honey for consumption - the best way to store).
















little_john said:


> ....
> The other possible lead also comes from Greg - he posted some time back about methods of extracting wax....
> LJ


Good reminder, LJ. 
I forgot all about it.
Here it is.
Few boards and some hardware - all it takes.
The thing is crazy efficient.
Of course, the hygiene for the honey production should be kitchen-grade (not the workshop-grade as for the slum-gum pressing).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76dZaRco3tc&t=272s


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## Honeyeater (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks guys, very good points, I enjoy reading your posts.

I've actually already saw Greg's DIY solutions a while back. Greg said that cost appears to not be an issue for me.

Well there is cost and there is value. Actually I am very cost conscious... but then, I own two Flow Hives which instantly contradicts my statement. If they worked as advertised for me I would have moved on and not worry about alternatives, but apparently their quality of manufacture and function varies and some work well, while others don't. Mine don't.

A good basic honey press costs around $150US and is multipurpose unlike an extractor. Yes I can get the same done with crush and strain for a few dollars and utensils from my kitchen. But then I'm at a stage in my life where time is limited, and there comes in the value of something that makes life a bit easier, and less messy. 

It is spring here and I am behind schedule planting my summer crop (time/work/family)..... Some of the veggies I grow are cheaper to buy from supermarkets but I see more value in the ones I grow without pesticides in my own compost. There is more to cost and value than just a number.


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## roddo27846 (Apr 10, 2017)

I think you are not placing enough value on drawn comb in weighing your decision. A small extractor will pay for itself in increased honey production even with only a few hives. It's also a lot easier on your bees not to always harvest their wax whenever you harvest honey. Less stress on the bees has lots of advantages beyond honey production to figure in as well. Buying an extractor was one of the smarter moves I have made with my bees.


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## Meghues (Jan 5, 2016)

So far I’m crush and strain, by scraping combs into a strainer on top of a 5 gallon bucket. It has to sit at least over night to drain, then I stir and drain again. Then I go get some more combs and repeat. 

The important thing here is ants and bees. I could never hang a bag to drain. I would have ant honey with inclusions of bees. My strainer/bucket combo can be sealed with the lid and then placed on a pan of water. 
This process suits my available time that time of year-intermittent and short. If I had to use an extractor I’d have to have more time all at once and be able to clean things up perfectly immediately. And then find a way to store it. 
An extractor would give me more honey, I’m sure, but not fit in to my lifestyle. 

A bucket and a strainer work for me. Your experience may differ.

Yours, Megan


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## BooBees (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi Honeyeater we are also selling our two Flow hives because of troubles we’re having with them. Mine’s got a gap at the back on top of frames letting bees out while harvesting and dad’s got two damaged Flow frames with bees getting trapped in the bottom channel. We’re aiming at four standard hives and a friend is lending us an extractor but we’ll buy our own small motorised one second hand. 

Have you considered a second hand extractor? The small ones are quite compact for storage.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Meghues said:


> So far I’m crush and strain, by scraping combs into a strainer on top of a 5 gallon bucket. *It has to sit at least over night to drain*, then I stir and drain again. Then I go get some more combs and repeat.


Hi Megan

I've only done crush and strain a couple of times, but when I did I took the word "crush" very literally - so I cut out the combs and crushed them with my bare hands. Now I realised beforehand that this had the potential of being a messy business, so I worked entirely within the bath, and kept a bowl of warm water in there within which I rinsed my hands from time to time. Whenever I needed to touch something outside of the bath area, I'd rinse in the bowl first, then wash my hands well under a running tap (faucet ?). A 'working' towel was always to hand.

The crushed-up comb was placed in a deep coarse strainer fixed over a food-grade plastic container - all within the bath - and allowed to drain for a short while. The wax residue was then separated (teased apart) and rinsed-out in another container containing warm water, strained and pressed by hand, and the hand-washing water added to it. This water was then used to make 2:1 sugar syrup.

A quick hose-down of the bath interior with a shower-head then removed all traces of the activity. All-in-all a fairly painless process, with no resulting mess. For those with a young inquisitive family, you might want to delay starting until after bedtime. 

LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Honeyeater said:


> .........But then I'm at a stage in my life where time is limited, and there comes in the value of something that makes life a bit easier, and less messy. .


I have been in this stage for decades and since just recently I finallyl afford to spend some time chasing the bees.
That being said - small batch C&S is the most time efficient way to harvest my honey.
Last year I spent most of one weekend conventionally extracting in the kitchen - and hated it.
Like I said, if I need some honey, I pull a frame from storage and C&S what I need - now this IS the most time efficient way as for me.
Little bit at a time; no special setups; no special cleanups - just another kitchen "cooking" project directly on the counter.
This presumes honey frames storage of course; in my case, I simply keep the honey where it belong - directly in the hives (cold winter certainly helps, our local benefit).


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Honeyeater said:


> .....Greg said that cost appears to not be an issue for me....
> 
> ...... but then, I own two Flow Hives which instantly contradicts my statement..


Exactly.
If you own Flow Hives, well, then.... 
Every time someone is looking for some costly time savings, I only smile.
There is always a catch - no magic exists.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

roddo27846 said:


> I think you are not placing enough value on drawn comb in weighing your decision. A small extractor will pay for itself in increased honey production even with only a few hives. It's also a lot easier on your bees not to always harvest their wax whenever you harvest honey. Less stress on the bees has lots of advantages beyond honey production to figure in as well. Buying an extractor was one of the smarter moves I have made with my bees.


Extractor in no way will increase honey production. Where is logic in this?
Extractor facilitates the efficient extraction of honey already produced by the bees, NOT honey production.
Bees produce the honey, not extractors.

In short - follow the commercial ways AS IF you are a commercial producer and be happy. 
It is fine approach and works for many.

I personally prefer going against the grain and get what I need my way (with near zero investment).
I see not much value in the pseudo-commercial approaches for what I need from beekeeping project.
The idea of value in drawn comb is one such commercial dogma, for example (it is predicated on mandatory separation of the brood from the honey).


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

FWIW - this is the kit I've used in the past to Crush & Strain - nothing more than a short length of 6-inch plastic drainage pipe (never used, I hasten to add) with an old spaghetti strainer epoxied in place near one end:



















The strainer sits atop a honey bucket, with the whole lot inside what you guys call a 'tote', which catches any serious drips and saves them from being flushed down the tubes. 

Crude maybe, but cost nowt (nothing) to make. It certainly ain't food-grade, but then I don't sell honey. If I did, then I'd make the same kind of thing from s/s.
LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

dup


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> FWIW - this is the kit I've used in the past to Crush & Strain - nothing more than a short length of 6-inch plastic drainage pipe ...........
> Crude maybe, but cost nowt (nothing) to make. It certainly ain't food-grade, but then I don't sell honey. If I did, then I'd make the same kind of thing from s/s.
> LJ


Recently I picked up something similar for $20 made from food-grade buckets (should I ever C&S on a bigger scale).
It is used, but I just gotten a bit too lazy to make one myself anymore - $20 is not worth the time spent.


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## roddo27846 (Apr 10, 2017)

GregV said:


> Extractor in no way will increase honey production. Where is logic in this?
> Extractor facilitates the efficient extraction of honey already produced by the bees, NOT honey production.
> Bees produce the honey, not extractors.
> 
> ...


They'll fill a super of drawn comb faster than one with no drawn comb in it, therefore, increasing production. Also, drawn comb has many uses which are not filled by empty frames. I run foundationless and drawn comb is precious to me. Seems such a waste to always crush it to get honey.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

roddo27846 said:


> ...... Seems such a waste to always crush it to get honey.


UNLESS, you crush what is to be melted due to age/flaws anyway.
Everyone melts old wax, don't they.
Might as well, C&S them first - then melt.
But to do this, you'd need to practice different methods - a matter of choice.

PS: different honey extraction approaches generate different amounts of "poop" in the honey - to be clear; 
to me, the more residue in the honey - the better;
others think otherwise;
others yet don't know/don't care of the "poop" issues;
worth mentioning;
This ref indicates just that:
https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...for-the-Detection-and-Monitoring-of-Honey-Bee


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## roddo27846 (Apr 10, 2017)

That's why I said always. I certainly crush and strain a lot. That's why I checked out this thread. I am contemplating buying a wax press myself. Crush and strain seems to waste a lot of honey to me. I would think that a press might let you get more of it out, but I have never seen one and they are expensive. But if they save a quart or so of honey every time you use them I thought they might pay off. Just hard to put out the money to test that theory, and was hoping someone with experience might comment here. Seems like nobody has one.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

FWIW I have done C&S and Extract, Point was valid,, Empty comb has value, Expands , swarms, splits ets.
Greg's point on ease and flavor is also spot on the C&S honey is the best tasting, IF you also have use for and or want the wax then C&S gets them both.

I would get a 5 gal pail with the gate to bottle and the bag suggested by LJ,, can clean and store the works in the pail and not use a ton of space or cost much.

Last C&S I did was 12 supers on 4 hives in 82, Had an extractor of sorts since then. Now have 24 hives with an 18 frame , its a dream.

Honey Eater do not let the 2 hive deal in the back yard be a "detriment" to you, I have 4 spots with 4 to 8 hives each and it seems to work well, not all spots have the same flow, and if you really like to eat honey, each spot has a unique flavor, so another spot, another flavor. 

If you plan to stay at 2 then a bag and a pail will suffice, if you plan to "have bees" just keep an eye out for used, or spread the work with some of your friends and in time one will show up.

BTW you are over thinking it a bit, now that you have graduated from the flow hive dream, welcome to BS and the rest of the bee activities.

GG


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Ideal is to get into a bee club or just a small group of people in your area that are in the same situation. Do you have a neighborhood forum to post to ? Buy a cheap 3 frame extractor for a couple hundred and share it. Well worth it. One of those folks can store it if you don't have the space.
If you are convinced that a press is the way to go, get a decent one that will do fruit. You may find that you expand your interests. If not, a decent one can be sold. J


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

roddo27846 said:


> That's why I said always. I certainly crush and strain a lot. That's why I checked out this thread. I am contemplating buying a wax press myself. *Crush and strain seems to waste a lot of honey to me. *I would think that a press might let you get more of it out, but I have never seen one and they are expensive*. But if they save a quart or so of honey every time you use them I thought they might pay off. *Just hard to put out the money to test that theory, and was hoping someone with experience might comment here. Seems like nobody has one.


Waste as in - "you don't get the honey" - but bees will get it back, and so this is not a waste at all.
Waste would be IF you dump the honey down the drain; now that is waste.

The press would get you extra few cups of honey for $$$$.
Those $$$$ are certainly waste because you spend say $300-400 to get press extra quart of honey out of the batch.
How much is that extra quart going to cost you? That is a very high marginal cost for an extra quart - basically it is "golden".
That is going to take a lot of extra quarts and a lot of years to pay back for the $300-400 spent (even $150 for a cheaper press).
LOL.

Bees are doing excellent job cleaning the residue. Costs nothing. They get back what is theirs.

So - the press expense would make some sense IF you had lots of bees and insisted on running lots of TB hives or Warre hives.
Still, there are ways to extract TBHs and Warre on a conventional equipment (for sure the Warre can be centrifuged).

Certainly, a desire to have expensive toys is a good justification and the toys have nice benefits to them, and it works too.
It is what it is .... and I don't argue!
Heck, I almost bought me a full farmette...... and didn't. 
Glad that I didn't.
Instead, I bought an expensive Bosch table saw and started building hives from scraps.
Wife did not mind the saw - that's because I did not buy the farmette; tools are many magnitudes cheaper all way around.


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## Honeyeater (Jun 21, 2020)

All the comments are making a lot of sense, thanks people. I am not a member of any bee club, (club meetings are not for me, being a bit of a recluse), so can't borrow equipment, and I'm only on this forum, and occasionally the Flow forum.

Two hives are more than enough for me, and that's what I can legally keep here anyway. The two hives are next to each other, and I swear they produce different tasting honey. I definitely agree with you there GrayGoose.

Regarding the value of drawn comb - I read about this a lot and I understand that from a commercial beekeeper point of view where every drop of honey counts. But for me, does it really matter if they give me a bit less honey while they re-build the comb? Are there any other disadvantages apart from having a minor hit on honey production that I am not seeing? I have two hives, and I never harvest more than a third, maximum half the frames at a time.


Out of my Flow hive, I get crystal clear honey and I do not have to strain it usually. I do understand that with C&S, pressing or spinning I have to strain it (will not be filter it though). That doesn't bother me at all and don't mind the "poop' as Greg said. However I don't know whether I can get clear enough honey after straining C&S/pressed honey.... just in case I sell some.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Honeyeater said:


> ..........However I don't know whether I can get clear enough honey after straining C&S/pressed honey.... just in case I sell some.


Absolutely, you will get clear honey.
It all depends on the source.
I really like mincing/draining the old brood combs with some bee bread in them - after the honey cured few months (our favorite, darker honey with strong, unique flavors).
But pressing from light drone-sized combs will get a very clear, lighter honey (similar to classic super extraction).
I deliberately do not mix honeys, but keep them separate (down to even a single jar batches in some instances).
It will look like this - my favorite benefit of running my own bees - the variety you can never buy anywhere (because it makes no commercial sense whatsoever)!


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## roddo27846 (Apr 10, 2017)

Honeyeater said:


> All the comments are making a lot of sense, thanks people. I am not a member of any bee club, (club meetings are not for me, being a bit of a recluse), so can't borrow equipment, and I'm only on this forum, and occasionally the Flow forum.
> 
> Two hives are more than enough for me, and that's what I can legally keep here anyway. The two hives are next to each other, and I swear they produce different tasting honey. I definitely agree with you there GrayGoose.
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with C&S honey -- one thing we all agree on, I think.

As far as the value of drawn comb, I'll only say that if you keep bees long enough, you will either see the value of drawn comb or you will not. People do things different ways. 

If you are like me and do see the value of drawn comb, you will see yourself destroying something valuable in the C&S process and you will not like doing that. Then you will see the value of an extractor. If you don't keep bees long enough to start seeing the value of drawn comb, then an extractor is definitely a waste of money. So, for now, save your money and use C&S. The honey is fine and you can keep it more varietal that way too. Extractors just mix it all together. It's still mighty fine either way.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

I do have a lyson press. Of note, a honey press has a deeper trough for the honey than a regular fruit press as the honey is more viscous and therefore deeper. I'm not sure if I like the press or c/s better. The press gets quicker results. We use a paint strainer bag inside the press. We also pour the pressed honey through a double (honey) strainer and it is beautifully clear. (our extracted honey also goes through the double strainer.) I would definitely say c/s works fine for 2 colonies. For example: 1 bucket with honey gate and double strainer for bottling; this may be unnecessary esp if not selling. 2nd bucket with lid to catch drips: cut a hole in the lid leaving a rim big enough to hold the 3rd bucket. Drill holes in the bottom of the 3rd bucket to allow honey to drain into second bucket. Hang nylon paint strainer in 3rd bucket. Mince honey into paint strainer and stick the stack In the corner. When it is drained enough, repeat.
If you do get a press do small amounts at first. When you press a full basket the hard cake can be difficult to remove. When the cake is thin it comes out easily. If you start with a small amount and work your way up you will find what the upper limit is before you cross it....
Happy spring, honeyeater. We are winding down for a long winter's nap here.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Here is another very cool implementation of a honey/wax press.


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