# Swarm relocation fail



## Kimmybee (Apr 18, 2016)

Next question...I could smell the bee pheromone really strong. Should I wash the bee suit?


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

Washing the suit wouldn't hurt. Any chance it's an AHB swarm?


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hard to answer with out a history of your bees. Is this a one time thing or are they tenacious most of the time after you work Them. Just a combination of the two hives mixing. Time will tell. Couple experiences may help you decide. Lots of swarms are very gentle and easy to hive in their new homes. Some not so much. I had opportunities to snatch a swarm out of a tree last year and one this year using a bucket on a reach pole. Bees all over me and trying their best to sting. Fortunately for me, I always were my breeze suit.  Point being, some swarms are just very defensive. Once they were hives and settle down to being bees, they were fine to work with. Defensive, but not tenacious. 
Years ago, I had some Russian bees. They re queened and the resulting progeny were beasts! Not thinking, I had this hive in a small garden on the ground by the basement door. There was a deck above that went to the upstairs entrance. Our dogs used that to exit to the back yard. I had gone into the hive to do a look see. Bees were very defensive and when I was done, couldnt get a group of about 10 or so to leave me and go back to the hive. Waited, walked around the yard. No go. I finally went into my garden shed and closed the door leaving just a crack of light. Finally they left me. Went into the house thinking all was good. Looked out the deck door and bees seemed to be patrolling out side the door!. Opened the door and sure enough, they wanted in. After a while, thinking things had calmed down, I let my pooches out. They came back and were obviously upset. Found a couple stingers on them. Later, they wouldn't go out that door. 
I took the hive over to my bee buddies house. He explained to me that I was just afraid of the bees and they could sense it. He assured me that after he worked with them some, they would be fine and I'd regret letting him have them. Now,,,,,my buddy was used to very docile bees and was confident that no gloves, no veil, and just a little smoke was the recipe for training this hive. I warned him it doesn't work like that Couple days later,,,,,,,,,,,I get a phone call from him,,,,he was huffing and puffing and hard to understand but the just of it was (explicative) K-9 bees,,,,,,running across the field being chased,,,,shirt off swating,,,,,,,, He didnt say it but I'll bet there was some screaming involved.
My humble suggestion is to wait and see. If they are like that when you work them again after they calm down, assuming they do,,,,,requeening would be an option. If they do not calm down,, seems you will have your answer as well. I've had some bees that were a challenge to go into but they were great honey producers and seemed like the only good hive beetle was a dead hive beetle. I'd find dead creatures at the entrance to the hive all the time. Bumble bees, wasps and the like. So, it can be a trade off or balance of good vs evil and whether it is worth it to you. Tolerance levels to working defensive bees are individual decisions.
My buddies solution was a can of lighter fluid and a match. I talked him out of it. Mostly because of the expense of the equipment. We tolerated those bees until they perished that winter. Wasnt unhappy about it.
Not sure if I answered your question but maybe some direction, ideas, and a little entertained. I'm a bit wordy at times
Rick
BTW,,,,yes wash your bee suit, gloves ect.. That pheromone sticks around


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## Kimmybee (Apr 18, 2016)

Thank you Rick! It took until morning before I could go out there without defenders chasing me. I'm going to give them a day or two to calm down before I attempt to go up to the hive again. I sure have not had much luck with the smoker. I make sure it's not hot and I wait but it just seems to agitate them.

Because I couldn't get the trap down from the tree yesterday, a lot of them have gone back. Sigh.:waiting:


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

If you have a trap that is close to where you are moving the bees that is not good. The foragers are going to return to that site looking for their hive and now it's gone. That may cause aggressive bees for sure. I would suggest moving your bait hive after dark to a new location at least 2 miles away.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Ok,,,,I may not have understand what you have. I read the swarm was not in the bait hive but outside. Big difference  If the swarm has moved into the bait hive, thats their new home and just relocating them across the way to a new hive by just moving the bees will not work as mtn bees says. The best way is as mtnbee says, move the bait hive a couple miles or more for a time. Four days minimum. Bees have about a three day memory. 
Here's what I do just as an option. After dark when all are in, I screen the entrance. My bait hives are double five frame deeps on top of each other. All parts are securely attached to each other. I move them to their new location. Its usually no more than 100 yrds. I place a branch of pine or something that impedes them as they leave the from the entrance. It kinda knocks them and they re orient to the new location. Now, the majority are going to go back to the original hive/bait box location. It will look like a disaster. They will cluster. Dont put a box or anything there. There will thousands, but most ,if not all will eventually go back to the new location before dark. The next day there will the same routine but less bees. Again on the third day there will be some. By the fourth day few if any. It works for me but I have a lot of room so thousands of bees flying around confused/testy about their home being gone is not an issue for me. Just a caveate  
Dont know what your bait hive set ups are but at least the bees will be re located. After 4/5 days, when the bees accepted their new location, then you can transfer them to the new hive. 
Rick


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm pretty certain Riverside is in AHB territory, so be cautious.


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## Kimmybee (Apr 18, 2016)

How would I know if they are AHB?


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

DNA testing- Does your county have Apiary Inspectors?

They could likely assist.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Kimmybee said:


> How would I know if they are AHB?


Hindsight


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