# Sticky  treatment free member listing



## squarepeg

the purpose of this thread is to create a directory of sorts for those looking for treatment free beekeeping operations near their location. the goal is to enable the sharing of information and resources that may be area specific such as management practices and sources for bees and queens.

i don't think it's necessary for us to get hung up on a strict definition for treatment free here. there are those (such as member 'astrobee') who have outstanding breeding programs and are working hard at selecting for mite resistance traits that may utilize a treatment if needed from time to time. those of you utilizing treatments as part of a plan to develop bee strains capable of doing well off treatments are welcome and encouraged to list yourself on this thread.

so if you are so inclined, whether just beginning with bees or have been at it for awhile, whether maintaining a large operation or a small one, please make a post and let us know who and where you are. information regarding treatment free bee suppliers who may not be forum members would be helpful as well. many thanks.


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## Riverderwent

Shreveport, LA.


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## JWChesnut

Maintain a TF apiary in the Chorro Valley, Morro Bay region since 2002 to test the various prescriptions promoted by the "gurus".
Initiated a VP queen F2 apiary in the San Luis Obispo region in 2015 to test highbred resistance queens.

The TF apiary is a sorry mess.


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## Terry C

I'm just outside of Mountain View Arkansas , trying to be TF , time will tell . There is a TF breeder here , I'll see if he wants to be listed .


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## Fusion_power

Pretty well known here that I am in Hamilton, Alabama which is in the northwest corner of the state.


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## Wolftrainer

9 Years treatment free small cell with mutt queens in central Iowa. I make my own extra deep boxes with 11 frames with wax foundation. I do not feed or wrap my bees.


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## Bailey11

Eastern Shore of VA

Treatment Free since I started with one hive in the Spring 2011. 12+ Colonies. All Mutts.

Overwinter in both 5 frame and 10 frame boxes. 

Moving toward foundationless.


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## heaflaw

Lincolnton NC (western piedmont)
No treatments for about 12 years
local survivors
10 to 15 hives


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## ToeOfDog

Shelby County, Al
Local mutts, Allogroomers


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## Juhani Lunden

Ruovesi, Northern Tavastland, Finland

bees are a mixture of all what have survived, mostly Primorski and Buckfast

selling queens


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## Michael Bush

Nehawka, NE. 40 miles east of Lincoln. 40 miles south of Omaha.


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## Harley Craig

E. Central IL, carni mutts from a local TF guy, swarms, and cutouts. Most folks I know near here don't treat


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## jwcarlson

Please list if you are selling queens.


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## GBF

Golden Bee Farm
Vyzhnytsia raion, Western Ukraine.
Developing our own strain of varroa resistant bees under name GBF. Keeping about 200 hives all TF, foundationless technology. We are carrying out our own selection program based on principles of combinational selection, using our mountain mating station placed in Carpathian mountains. In June,July and August available controlled mated queens.

[email protected]


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## snipercsa

Outside of Huntsville, AL.
2nd year, but first year overwinter success.... so far.
Used terra-pro once in my first year but nothing since. 
One store-bought unknown queen. One queen and her daughter queens from a home cutout.


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## bevy's honeybees

Terry C said:


> I'm just outside of Mountain View Arkansas , trying to be TF , time will tell . There is a TF breeder here , I'll see if he wants to be listed .


My family and I camped last October at Mountain View. I have a jar of Ozark Honey Bee Barf to prove it! I love your area and your town...the music and the beauty. There was a young 10 yr old gal down at the park on Saturday night that played fiddle like I've never seen anyone play quite like her! That camping trip will be on my top 5 forever. It was my second time there. I hope it won't be my last.

I am treatment free and will remain so. I lost only 3 hives last season. 2 in spring, one in fall after the flow.


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## heaflaw

http://anarchyapiaries.org/hivetools/ Sam Comfort


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## heaflaw

http://www.blackrockfarms.com/bees.html


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## nlk3233

Be sure to add yourself to Soloman's list as well.
http://parkerfarms.biz/map.html


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## ruthiesbees

Ruth Meredith, all topbar hives. Raising queens to sell locally from treatment free stock. Hope to have some virgins available for sale at the June 2016 Virginia Beekeepers State Meeting in Smithfield Virginia this year. I also raise 10-20 nucs each year for sale to new topbar hive beginner beekeepers.


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## kwclr

Little Rock, Arkansas
Just getting started and have found a source of local TF bees in Dardenelle, AR.


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## squarepeg

from another thread:



Huntingstoneboy said:


> http://www.johnstonshoneybeefarm.com/
> 
> Not sure if he is a member here.





sqkcrk said:


> Michael Johnston has been a member here. There is a dry sugar feeding technique that bears his screen name. I haven't seen him participating in many years.


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## SRatcliff

Stuart Ratcliff. Southern, Indiana. Started with local stock in 2011. I've been expanding, wintering nucs, and selling Nucs and Queens the last 2-3 years. Went into winter with around 90 colonies, mostly nucs.


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## cerezha

100% treatment-free for 5-6 (?) years in urban environment. My bees are using natural cell-size and top-bars (frameless, foundationless) in standard (sort of) Langstroth boxes. Original bees were feral (?). Right now we have 3 household with small apiaries (City permitted). All bees are treatment-free and doing well. I have some pictures in photo-gallery. 
Santa Monica, CA


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## Girl Next Door Honey

I logged in to post this same thing! I want to create a map of TF breeders/suppliers for my beekeeping students. If you are selling TF bees, please link your website and tell us where you are. I am TF since I started in 2010. I have 60 colonies in San Diego, CA. Most of them are mutts. www.girlnextdoorhoney.com 

TF breeders I am aware of:
http://wildflowermeadows.com in San Diego, CA
http://www.beekind.com/orderbees.html Bay Area, CA
http://www.carpentersapiaries.com/Pages/default.aspx Florida
http://oldsolbees.com/nucleus-colonies/214-2/ Oregon?
http://www.wildernessbees.com Washington


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## J O'Haro

Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri. keeping bees since the mid 70's
somewhere around 35 hives. Carni's. everything is a deep box


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## Mr. Buzzy Bee

Medford, Or


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## squarepeg

ulimann said:


> Started out with 2 packages and went for 9 years treatment free. One of the 2 hives stayed with me all that time. Kept introducing carnis and Russians. Always had 5 to 8 hives, had a bunch of losses but just kept on going until '05 when bears did me in. Started back up 4 years ago treatment free again with Russian mutts and keep introducing new Russian queens aiming for 25 hives this year.


ulimann appears to be located in northwestern washington state.


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## AstroBee

I'm posting this with some level of apprehension, as I sometimes disagree with the discussions in the TF forum. I try my best to stay out of the discussions as I feel objectivity (both mine and others) is sometimes lacking. With these huge caveats, I've been relatively TF for over a decade. However, if I find a colony that is carrying a large mite load it will be treated (MAQS) and requeened with resistant stock. I never routinely treat any of my colonies. Regarding mites, I treated 1 out of 60 in 2013, and 0 out of 60 in 2014 and 2015. My stock is almost exclusively VSH-based stock that I maintain and propagate using II. Some of my stock is feral colonies that have just survived, but the vast majority has some direct lineage to VSH stock. I sell a limited number of queens locally. I do not ship queens at all. My queens have not been seriously tested outside the Southeast region of VA. My primary breeding objectives are to develop bees that can survive varroa AND retain their productivity.


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## beepro

I am taking the 3rd route to be tf eventually.
Got queen from Pete up in NY who has not treat
10 year in beekeeping. His is mainly Russians genetics.
Raised my own carnis mutt x Italians (from a tf bee farm.)
My goal is to keep the Cordovan (mutt) by open mating some
carnis and Italians local drones that can coexist with the
mites. So far I have a small operation that they all survive
this mild winter. Selecting for the mite resistant local
queens to grow my operation. I only use my homemade oav gadget when needed.
The last oav treatment was on late October last year. The bottom board
has a heavy load of the dead mites so they are fighting or struggling to
survive for sure. No hive lost this winter for the first time in 4 years .... How can they
survive the heavy mite infestation the last winter? Allgorooming(sp?) is what I am looking for that seems to 
keep the mites at bay.
This is a good directory that should be a sticky note! I'm sure we can exchange
some queens to select for the desire genetics material. 

Also, list your grafting or queen available date so we can get some of your local tf queens.
Queen shipping is very simple. Just poke some holes on an envelop or a small box for the bees to
breathe and use a mini wood cage over a screen glue on the box with some nurse bees with the queen. The post office
will take care of the shipping. Ship them at the right temperature range of 60-80F should be fine when weather permits.


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## squarepeg

SwampCat said:


> Not really sure what the lineage of the queen might be. I have assembled a variety of swarms, splits, a few purchased nucs, and a few purchased queens. I actually have 24 hives altogether and this is the first hive I lost this winter. The others I have looked in are looking good. Always been treatment free.


swampcat is located in southwestern arkansas.


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## billabell

I am in the mountains about 25 miles SW of Lexington VA. I have been treatment free since I started in 2007. I have started using OAV twice a year in August and Dec/Jan. I have 6 hives and will expand this year to 10-12.


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## nlk3233

billabell said:


> I am in the mountains about 25 miles SW of Lexington VA. I have been treatment free since I started in 2007. I have started using OAV twice a year in August and Dec/Jan. I have 6 hives and will expand this year to 10-12.


How are you treatment free if you're using oxalic acid?


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## Duncan151

Crivitz, WI


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## billabell

nlk3233 said:


> How are you treatment free if you're using oxalic acid?


Maybe you should read squarepegs initial post when he started this thread and other members posts in this thread. Treatment free to me is not putting chemicals in the hives. Oxalic acid is an organic compound found throughout the natural environment. I suppose if you feed you would consider that to be a treatment would you not? Actually just opening the hive and manipulating the frames and bees under the strictest definition is a treatment. What do you do?


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## nlk3233

You are quite right, by my own fault I didn't realize Squarepeg laid out lax treatment free standards. I have a lot of respect for him and what he has documented so that's not meant disrespectfully towards him at all. 
I don't want to pollute this thread with dribble about what treatment free is. All I can say is buy your bees from a source not using treatments, whether they be soft or harsh. And get better bees. But to answer your question, I put nothing in my hives. Just frames and bees. Occasional honey frame if they need it.


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## SRatcliff

Oxalic Acid is a CHEMICAL used to kill mites. Sugar syrup does indeed contain chemicals, but is not used for killing mites. There's a difference in planning to become treatment free, and being treatment free. I assumed this threat was about being treatment free, but I suppose I was wrong. Should we have to ask self proclaimed "treatment free beekeepers" if they treat now? Lol


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## Fusion_power

You weren't wrong SR. Treatment free means exactly what it says, no treatments for mites of any sort. This includes brood breaks, hard chemicals, soft chemicals, drone brood removal, etc. 

The only acceptable "treatment" IMO is to requeen a colony if found with mite damage. I have one colony that needs to be requeened later this year and I have two other colonies with Beeweaver queens that will be requeened at the same time. I've got breeder queens picked out and will put them to use soon.


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## Michael Bush

>You weren't wrong SR. Treatment free means exactly what it says, no treatments for mites of any sort.

I would say it means no treatments for mites, or nosema, or AFB, or EFB, or waxmoths, or chalkbrood, or anything else...


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## Fusion_power

There is a saying in the cattle industry that "The meat packer is generally your best health care specialist". Beekeepers can take this to mean a new disease/pest tolerant queen is cheap modern health care. I'd take more drastic measures if I found AFB.


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## Swarmhunter

Have learned a lot these first 3 years. Lost 5 of my 8 hives. Not going to be swayed from my TF production though. I've been studying Kirk Webster, Michael Bush, Michael Palmer,and Larry Connor this winter. 
Will be using deadouts and frames of honey to make increases this Spring. Have been building Nucs all winter.
I'm looking forward to Spring.

10 hives, 3 years, TF for 3 years and going to stay that way. Have 10 Queens from 3 different TF apiaries ordered. Going to mix my genetics up and do a better job of winter preparations.

Have a great season!


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## squarepeg

Bee Tamer said:


> I am from Massachussets and started two years ago, also determined to be treatment free. I know I am still new, but I feel I have learned more about being treatment free by being treatment free. I lost 2 of 4 colonies my first winter/ year. I have 8 of 9 alive and looking populous this year, so far.


welcome to the forum bee tamer. i quoted your post here so that southern massachusetts would be represented.


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## John B

Stevens Point, WI
John
https://sites.google.com/site/tranquilbeekeeping/


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## xphoney

Cross Plains Honey is small cell and treatment free. Member Dane County Bee Keepers and Marathon County Bee Keepers.

Hubs: Cross Plains WI (near Madison) and Marathon County (west of Wausau)

Andrew, Savannah, and Alexandra Olson

We are capitalists and will sell whatever you are looking for  Queens, Nucs (deeps and mediums), drawn comb, honey, etc.


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## 1hundredprojects

I am a new backyard beekeeper with a very small apiary in Monterey County, CA. This is my second season and I am at 1 hive (started with two from packages). My hives have been TF and foundationless. I want to learn to produce local TF queens and share the genetics with other beekeepers in the area (long-term, ambitious goal).


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## bjverano

TF since 2009. Currently 1 Warre and 4 Langstroths. 
Bonnie in Millstadt, IL


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## 1102009

*Germany*

SiWolke
www.VivaBiene.de


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## squarepeg

heaflaw said:


> http://anarchyapiaries.org/hivetools/ Sam Comfort


thanks lawrence. anarchy advertises treatment free bees for sale in new york and vermont.


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## squarepeg

heaflaw said:


> http://www.blackrockfarms.com/bees.html


thanks again lawrence. black rock farms advertises treatment free bees for sale in north carolina.


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## beepro

And where can I get some yellow tf bees to keep?
Any available source?


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## squarepeg

gndh listed a couple of california sources in post #25.


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## snl

Michael Bush said:


> I would say it means no treatments for mites, or nosema, or AFB, or EFB, or waxmoths, or chalkbrood, or anything else...


Is burning a hive that has AFB considered a treatment?


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## beepro

snl said:


> Is burning a hive that has AFB considered a treatment?


How can you treat a hive that you already
burn down? This is silly!
Treating to me is like a possible cure later on.
Something that already been burnt down has
no survivor therefore there is nothing left
to be treated. So no, it is not consider a
treatment but rather write it off as a loss. Now if AFB has a cure and you
give them something to treat then it is consider a treatment. No cure so far I have read.


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## Michael Bush

>Is burning a hive that has AFB considered a treatment?

No. It is complying with the law.


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## MR2Bs

Central Ohio. 
Forth generation beekeeper
Treatment free since 2009, (that is when my stepmom gave me all of my fathers, grandfathers notes. Reverted back to the way they keep bees.)


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## BuckeyeBeek

Southwest Ohio

Never treated and killed a lot of package bees my first 3 years; wasted a bunch of $ with a lot of frustration. Began trapping swarms and making my own queens from survivor stock and that has proven be effective for getting bees to overwinter.


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## sakhoney

Running 300 hives in SE Texas. First year of TF - lost 90% of my bees. (8 years ago) Had 1 yard of 20 that saved my *****. Been running TF ever since. Been running bees the better part of 38 years. Not an expert but I do know what I'm doing. Getting setup to start selling queens, nucs & singles next season. Not on a massive scale. These will be quality verses quantity. Direct contact my name @ yahoo.com.


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## mike bispham

Currently holding 68 hives in southeastern UK, 6 years into a bond program using local ferals. See my thread 'Natural Selection Management' http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...al-Selection-Management&p=1249742#post1249742 for my methods. Gearing up this year to produce nucs for sale next spring.


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## squarepeg

in vermont:

http://www.mcfarlineapiaries.com

tim's beesource screen name is: tMcf


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## beepro

Any idea what kind of bees Tim is keeping?
Is it an Italians or carnis or others?


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## Jovian

Dont have bees yet but reading and gearing up to start in spring with 2 hives. Will be treatment and foundation free here in Huntsville AL.


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## 357

Started my first two colonies this year from packages, prior to learning locally overwintered nucs would have been a better option. Regardless, I am TF on small cell, all medium size boxes. I am building nuc boxes now. Some will end up as swarm traps others will be used to bolster my apiary. Hopefully I will be requeening this summer with VSH queens and the plan is to move the current queens into nucs and see how they overwinter. Foundationless is in my future. I'm learning as much as I can as fast as I can. I love Michael Palmer's sustainable apiary practice and I'd like to emulate that as much as possible. I'd really like to learn how to rear my own queens next year to help me achieve that goal.


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## squarepeg

in roxboro, north carolina:



J.Lee said:


> I'm treatment free 5 years running V.P. Queens. (Allegro) and I am working with captured swarms to develop my own stock. I also do splits to break the brood cycle. Usually the bees swarm and do that for me. I am currently regressing to 5.1 cell.


(i hope you don't mind j.lee, i quoted you here for future reference)


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## gunter62

Treatment free since my start in 2010. Raise my own stock. No major losses. Still learning.


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## GaryG74

Gathering genetics to hopefully get treatment free in the near future. Have couple of queens from feral swarms, some Sam Comfort queens and their daughters, and three of Fusion_Power's queens for a good start.


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## InBees

Buffalo, Minnesota

The original plan: 2 treatment free, small cell hives of 8 frame mediums in my backyard.

The current reality: 1 hive in my backyard, with 1 8 frame deep & the rest mediums, because the frames from my nuc were deeps. These are regressing to small cell. 

Hive 2 is five miles away, with 1 surviving hive of 10 frame boxes in deep, mediums and shallows, with three more 10 frame, unoccupied hive sets. I inherited these from my bee mentor when he died a month ago. His approach was heavy-handed use of treatments. One of those hives died, and the other is languishing. 

The hope: grow queens and bees to colonize 5-6 hives so that losses can be sustained and treatment free maintained. Eventually everything will be small cell mediums.


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## Nordak

TF for 3 years, west central Arkansas. No treatments whatsoever. I have obtained most of my stock from bait hives, local feral population. Mixed in are some BWeaver genetics and an Anarchy queen I have recently obtained through barter. I have yet to suffer a complete loss of a hive, have had to requeen once. Currently running 10 hives, TBH and Lang. Foundationless. My bees thrive. The main problem I am having is population control ☺. If anyone is interested in a queen, will barter straight across. Only serious inquiries from people who have the real deal, no treatments. All I ask for is possible feedback on performance, and I will give the same. I am trying to gauge how adaptable these bees are outside of my area. Thanks for taking the time to everyone who is posting, great stuff.


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## squarepeg

in southern missouri:

do a google search for 'HorizontalHive'.

to my knowledge dr. sharashkin is not a beesource member, but worthy of checking out if you happen to be looking for a resource in that part of the country.


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## Fusion_power

Would be nice if someone could put these locations on a google map with sticky pins.


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## Nordak

squarepeg said:


> in southern missouri:
> 
> do a google search for 'HorizontalHive'.
> 
> to my knowledge dr. sharashkin is not a beesource member, but worthy of checking out if you happen to be looking for a resource in that part of the country.


Thank you.


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## tmwilson

Southeast KS. Started 4 years ago and now have 17 hives. No treatment, although I do feed when starting a split. Still trying to figure it all out.


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## Fusion_power

Aubrey Henderson, 4 miles northwest of Double Springs Alabama. He will sell a few colonies and maybe a few queens.


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## heaflaw

Fusion_power said:


> Would be nice if someone could put these locations on a google map with sticky pins.


Shouldn't the map and list be just for those experienced keepers actively selling treatment free stock?


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## mike bispham

heaflaw said:


> Shouldn't the map and list be just for those experienced keepers actively selling treatment free stock?


Colour-coded pins?

Mike (UK)


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## Southernilgal

I'm in southern Illinois, we have almost 75 hives


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## Fusion_power

Tom Rinderer has pure Russian nucs in early spring in Baton Rouge Louisiana. These are from the USDA imported stock maintained at the bee lab.


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## M-Lane

Hello! I am new to beekeeping, first hive this year. I am located in Missouri and I have had a difficult time finding TF beekeepers near me. So far, I have been reading everything I can about TF beekeeping and hoping I am doing things right.


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## Redhawk

First year newbee. Started with one hive with an excellent queen. Just completing a cut-out without finding the queen. Both colonies are Italian. First hive came from a local old timer honey farmer. He's been a good mentor, but he does treat some. I will be looking for VSH queens soon. 

Ed Age
Joelton, TN just north of Nashville. 

To bee, or not to bee, there is no question


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## Redhawk

If you goggle VSH queen suppliers you get a map of the USA with pins. Zoom in click a pin & there's your supplier. A map for those on the post here would be great. 


To bee, or not to bee, there is no question.


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## Hive5ive

Hive5Apiary in Tappahannock, Va. We've been treatment free from the start. We're on 4.9 mm foundation for starter hives and some foundationless. Queens/bees from other treatment free apiaries and feral swarms. So far, so good! I will be treating our hives for both tornado and hurricane prevention in the future! Last spring we lost nearly everything in a tornado, tie your stuff down tight!  We're hoping to get the new store open for next spring!!!! We should have zone 7 small cell bees, some nucs and bee supplies, god willing!

Job 12:8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee


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## Tim KS

Only one other TF beek from KS so far......? I know there are more out there because I bought TF nucs two years ago from NE KS.

I've treated in the past, but not for the last year or a bit more. I'm planning to try TF for a few years to see if I can maintain my 15-20 colonies. Located in southcentral KS near Wichita.


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## D Semple

Tim KS said:


> Only one other TF beek from KS so far......?


There is actually a fair number around the Kansas City area I know of. I sell 6 to 10 full size TF colonies a year.

Don Semple - Overland Park, KS

5 years, TF, Foundationless & SC, 20 - 25 hives, Feral Stock (have caught or bred every colony I own)

Bush/Lusby philosophy works for me here 


Don


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## dennis crutchfield

dennis crutchfield central Missouri. I have been treatment free since 2001, started out with buckfast and ferrel bees with 78 hives. Lost all but 12.. now starting back with my own queens and hoping to go over 200 this coming year. This year I did bring in some new blood to try again. Time will tell. will try to sell some survival queens this year.


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## jeapiary

Hey Everyone,
We're from Clintonvile, WI.
Anyone from the area, please PM me I am trying to build a Wisconsin TF contact list!
Thanks!


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## TxGypsy

I was just kindly invited to add my name to the list. I have been a beekeeper 25 years and have been completely chemical free for 23 of those years(first 2 years I followed the book). I'm in the SW Missouri Ozarks. If you attend the Ozark Area Beekeepers Association meetings in Springfield you have probably heard me speak about chemical free beekeeping. 

As you can tell by my moniker I am a beekeeper out of Texas. So if anyone has questions from Texas I can probably address those as well.


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## ShrekVa

Treatment free since 2011, located in Memphis TN area and willing to help someone out as best I can if I can.


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## Riverderwent

Ed Levi, Mountain Home, AR.


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## 1102009

Sibylle from Germany.

www.VivaBiene.de

It`s possible to log in if you don`t speak german.
I will try my best to translate,, if you are ever interested in our tf beekeeping under european conditions.

I´s not enough to log in with your e-mail address. You have to write an introduction.

Push: 
"Vorstellung neuer Mitglieder"
"Neues Thema erstellen"
---Introduction---
"Thema speichern"


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## beepro

There is a group in the U.K. trying to reestablish and bring back the German A.M.M. black bees.
Do you have the interest to import some black bees into your operation too? If not now maybe in
the future sometimes? It is interesting to bring back the a.m.m again in Germany. Too bad we cannot
import any here.


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## 1102009

beepro said:


> There is a group in the U.K. trying to reestablish and bring back the German A.M.M. black bees.
> Do you have the interest to import some black bees into your operation too? If not now maybe in
> the future sometimes? It is interesting to bring back the a.m.m again in Germany. Too bad we cannot
> import any here.


We have this, too.
http://www.nordbiene.de
The problem is that I´m surrounded by carniolans and buckfast and I would like to work with those people trying to convince them to go tf. But they want to keep their races.

Myself I`ve got 6 hives AMM, one with pure bred queen from canary island and the hybrids.
One of my friends has some black bee hives too, these are braunelle.
In switzerland there is someone I know who breeds *****.
These are strains brought back from the original black european bees.

But we have such crowded living conditions it`s not always possible to have those because they are not gentle enough.

Personally I believe tf must be possible with all kinds of bees, even mutts, depending on the techniques one uses.


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## Redhawk

I agree, bee pro. Shame we can't import. Could be a real boost to TF for both. Hi, Siwolke. You know a good German English translation site on line? Would be great to go there & have more join in here.


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## 1102009

Redhawk said:


> I agree, bee pro. Shame we can't import. Could be a real boost to TF for both. Hi, Siwolke. You know a good German English translation site on line? Would be great to go there & have more join in here.


Why do you think it a boost?
They are treated! They are artificial inseminated! They are no ferals! They are not able to cope with our situations, much less then the carniolan "Landrasse" , which is adapted. 

In the US there still are strains of bees coming from the formerly imported black european bees. Use those!

I´d rather have my small cell mutts, tf, than working with black bees which are treated! Start regressing again! Ever fear they will supersede!


No, sorry, I don`t know any good translation site. I would translate for you what you want to know. But maybe we should open another thread not to be off-topic.


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## Redhawk

SiWolKe said:


> Why do you think it a boost?
> They are treated! They are artificial inseminated! They are no ferals! They are not able to cope with our situations, much less then the carniolan "Landrasse" , which is adapted.
> 
> In the US there still are strains of bees coming from the formerly imported black european bees. Use those!
> 
> I´d rather have my small cell mutts, tf, than working with black bees which are treated! Start regressing again! Ever fear they will supersede!
> 
> 
> No, sorry, I don`t know any good translation site. I would translate for you what you want to know. But maybe we should open another thread not to be off-topic.


Sorry, Si. I had looked at the link you post & found it in German. As usual, I was assuming that site was a treatment free forum. I don't want any treatment bees either. I was thinking in terms of import & export of non treatment bees.


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## 1102009

Don`t apologize, Redhawk. 
It was my mistake.
I assumed you translated this with a google translator and found it poor.
I´m sorry.


----------



## Redhawk

SiWolKe said:


> Don`t apologize, Redhawk.
> It was my mistake.
> I assumed you translated this with a google translator and found it poor.
> I´m sorry.


No apologies needed, Siwolke. I was & still am very interested in seeing, hearing how TF Beekeepers around the world are keeping their apiaries. The world is small compared to a hundred years ago, & getting smaller exponentially. Thanks in part to the Internet, I now have friends around the world that I can truly call friends. Should be no deferent with Beekeepers. :gh:


----------



## DaisyNJ

Wondering, what if any, is done to form a formal association of Treatment Free Queen Breeders, like the Russian Breeders association. Wouldnt a formal organization, with set goals, processes, assays, formal documentation etc benefit all ?


----------



## Ramona

Year two of managing my own bees, TF. 43 colonies. Almost all my genetics are originating from southern TF nucs I traded work for. 

I shared hives for 14 years and was strictly TF for at least the last 12 of those years. 

One of last years colonies was from southern treated (T) stock and I made 2 splits from it. Got an OAV vaporizer last year as an experiment and jokingly as a sort of talisman to scare off mites, lol. Treated the three T originating colonies two times last October with OAV and got some mite drop, not nearly what I see some folks posting photos of. All three made it through winter; one went laying worker in April and I shook it out. One of the remaining 2 has spotty brood and I started an OAV treatment last week. Will be going again tomorrow to see those bees.

Have not treated any of the colonies originating from TF stock.

One of the 43 is a swarm I caught June 1. Brood pattern was spotty in early September. I gave it 2 OAV treatments a week apart, am not seeing any mite drop (! Is that possible?). Have seen mites in 2 TF nucs, one mite running on a comb and one feeding on an open worker larvae. Have not treated either of them but am watching them to see what happens.

Everything else is TF, wall to wall brood in many, smaller but dense brood patches in others. All have stored honey; even through our Massachusetts drought, some colonies are up to four 10 frame deeps.

I've been raising my own queens last year and this year for splits both through grafting and crowding.

For a long time I thought localized genetics were really important. But my southern TF stock is doing so well, so far, that I'm reserving further judgement. I'm in touch on a regular basis with the stock originator; we text photos back and forth and compare notes. TF is very little of what is discussed. Mostly we talk about weather, available forage, brood rearing...all the regular beekeeping concerns. 

Hope I'm not breaking protocol by being open about the OAV. Its interesting to me to be comparing the T stock and the TF stock, short term and long term. 

All my photos are in my Galaxy Note 3 phone, no time right now to figure out how to move them to laptop or post them here from my phone.

Ramona


----------



## squarepeg

welcome back to the forum ramona, and thanks for sharing your experiences here. if i may ask, what part of the south did your tf nucs come from?


----------



## Ramona

Palm Beach County


----------



## squarepeg

excellent and many thanks. it's nice to have massachusetts and florida represented in the listing.


----------



## Ramona

squarepeg said:


> welcome back to the forum ramona, and thanks for sharing your experiences here. if i may ask, what part of the south did your tf nucs come from?


Sorry, Palm Beach County, Florida. Forgot to add that I started ladt year with 11 colonies and went into last winter with 21 colonies, came out with 21. Lost a vigorous nuc to starvation in March while I was in Florida. One of the T colonies went LW. Brought 15 nucs back from Florida in April. Raised the rest of the 43 from my own queens.


----------



## Ramona

I should probably add that I have my bees on a mix of full sheets of small cell foundation, partial sheets of small cell foundation, Mann Lake PF 100's and foundationless. There are a few pierco 5.2 frames in there as well that came with the Florida nucs. All my frames are marked for housel positioning and any combs that have cell size bigger than 4.9 or are naturally drawn with larger cells I try to keep at the outer edges of the boxes. 

I keep my colonies drone right, ie, I let them make as many drones as they want and I don't practice any kind of drone removal.


----------



## beepro

Ramona, is there a way to get your tf queens shipped here?
I have the interest to get some. Are they carnis or Italians specie?


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Ramona said:


> I should probably add that I have my bees on a mix of full sheets of small cell foundation, partial sheets of small cell foundation, Mann Lake PF 100's and foundationless. There are a few pierco 5.2 frames in there as well that came with the Florida nucs. All my frames are marked for housel positioning and any combs that have cell size bigger than 4.9 or are naturally drawn with larger cells I try to keep at the outer edges of the boxes.
> 
> I keep my colonies drone right, ie, I let them make as many drones as they want and I don't practice any kind of drone removal.


You have the TF honey trading company Kirk told me about? It would be interesting to hear your opinion about the possibilities of TF honey as a special product.


----------



## Ramona

beepro said:


> Ramona, is there a way to get your tf queens shipped here?
> I have the interest to get some. Are they carnis or Italians specie?


I have not yet shipped queens or sold mated queens. I've been using whatever I have to make more bees. Maybe this coming year?

No idea what their pedigree is. If you pm me a phone number or email address I can text you or email you some photos. Haven't figured out how to get photos from my phone onto beesource.


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## Utterback2008

I am starting beekeeping next spring of 2017. I am hoping to run treatment free and want to learn all I can as well as create some likeminded contacts.


----------



## grinningranny

I am also planning to start a beekeeping adventure next spring, but am having a tough time finding anyone to mentor me, much less anyone that is tf. In the six years I have lived in the mountains of southern Colorado I have seen maybe 5 bees total. Hope this adventure doesn't go belly up!


----------



## squarepeg

welcome aboard gg! 

do a search for 'beelining' and see if it's something that you might be able to do this fall. it might turn out that you have some wild/feral bees living around you. if you are able to locate some, and find they are still alive come spring, you might consider setting out a swarm trap or two and catching some free survivor bees.


----------



## lharder

Redhawk said:


> I agree, bee pro. Shame we can't import. Could be a real boost to TF for both. Hi, Siwolke. You know a good German English translation site on line? Would be great to go there & have more join in here.


Intercontinental movement of bees is a really bad idea except under the strictest of conditions. That's how we got varroa, tracheal mites and some of these viruses. There are more nasties out there to make our life more difficult.


----------



## Redhawk

lharder said:


> Intercontinental movement of bees is a really bad idea except under the strictest of conditions. That's how we got varroa, tracheal mites and some of these viruses. There are more nasties out there to make our life more difficult.


Lost track of this thread somehow. I stand corrected, L. Don't know what I was thinking or drinking that night. And with the new threat of the Aussie shb on the move on the west coast importing disease &pest free would be near impossible.


----------



## Redhawk

Double post


----------



## tomasmore

Santa Barbara, Ca. I have 24 hives on a 70 organic avocado ranch. The hives are treatment and have been since 2011. I lose about 10 hives a year but I am able to make splits to build the apiary back up in the spring to keep it sustainable.


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## btt221

I am a first year treatment free bee keeper in Modesto, CA. I started by making two Top Bar swarm traps for the spring swarm season of 2016. First trap caught a feral colony of black honey bees in Milpitas, CA I moved this colony into a 44 inch Top Bar hive in Modesto, CA. The second trap in Modesto, CA (three weeks later) caught a feral colony of yellow honey bees. I moved this colony into the same Top Bar hive with the black bees--the colonies separated by a follower board. All the honey produced by these two colonies remained in the hive for the bees to make it through the winter.

In conclusion, I hope the remaining yellow colony makes it to the 2017 spring almond tree bloom in the central valley California. Otherwise, trap, traps, and trapping--spring, summer, and fall.


----------



## btt221

I am a first year treatment free bee keeper in Modesto, CA. I started by making two Top Bar swarm traps for the spring swarm season of 2016. First trap caught a feral colony of black honey bees in Milpitas, CA I moved this colony into a 44 inch Top Bar hive in Modesto, CA. The second trap in Modesto, CA (three weeks later) caught a feral colony of yellow honey bees. I moved this colony into the same Top Bar hive with the black bees--the colonies separated by a follower board. All the honey produced by these two colonies remained in the hive for the bees to make it through the winter.

In conclusion, I hope the remaining yellow colony makes it to the 2017 spring almond tree bloom in the central valley California. Otherwise, trap, traps, and trapping--spring, summer, and fall.


----------



## R_V

I plan to start this spring here in central Al.
I see Aubrey Henderson is the only AL supplier listed. Are there others? Do y'all (SP or FP) sell nucs or packages?
I'd really like to get some of those "old tree" bees SP mentioned in another thread.


----------



## squarepeg

welcome aboard rv! i usually sell a limited number of nucs each season, and i believe fp does as well. i've got 2 others so far in line for this year's, send my a pm if you are interested and i can add you to the list.


----------



## R_V

Excellent!!


----------



## R_V

This may be the wrong thread for this question but... 
I've been looking for TF bees to start beekeeping and thinking about methods to acquire them. I'd assume that when I pickup a nuc locally it will include a % of mites. 

Are there TF suppliers that ship bees packages?

Do TF suppliers that ship bees packages across state line treat their bees before shipping so they don't spread mites? 

Is it even legal to ship untreated bees? 

Or do TF suppliers only ship queens?


----------



## squarepeg

i don't have answers to your questions r_v, but part of the problem is that there are relatively few tf beekeepers and even fewer tf suppliers.

hooking up with a bee club or two in your area might allow you to make contact with folks keeping bees off treatments and perhaps an opportunity for purchasing splits from them.

another option for acquiring resistant stock would be to place swarm traps in or around large expanses of wooded lands, perhaps the oak mountain area?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

R V, keep in mind that no comb may be brought into Alabama, regardless of whether it is 'treated' or not.



> All shipments or movements of honeybees into the State of Alabama shall be in combless packages only, and shipments or movements of honeybees into this state in violation of the requirements of this section shall be unlawful.
> 
> _More Alabama beekeeping regulations here:
> _http://agi.alabama.gov/arc/divisions/plant-protection/alabama-apiary-laws


If you want to get a nuc, it _must_ be from someone that produced that nuc in Alabama.

The regulations linked above do not appear to cover varroa, so it appears that bees that have varroa -even those _not treated_ for varroa- may be transported and sold into/within Alabama.

However, if something is defined as "contagious and infectious diseases of honeybees", then palatable options are very _few_.


----------



## R_V

Right, our local bee keepers association spoke on the "no comb" subject Thursday night.

My question is more about bee packages.

Basically, are there TF bee packages available from anywhere?


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## squarepeg

i think these folks are mostly treatment free, i've no personal experience with them:

https://www.wolfcreekbees.com/store#!/Bee-Packages/p/77692279/category=22096161


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## Nordak

R_V, I'd highly recommend listening to SP in regard to setting up swarm traps. The bees are there in Alabama. If you took the money you'd spend on packages and used it toward building bait hives, you'll be way ahead in the selection process. Feral bees are the way to go if you have them.


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## R_V

I do intend to put out swarm traps and hopefully get a nuc or two from Alabama TF sources.


----------



## Nordak

Good deal. It sounds like you've got a good game plan. If I were in your shoes, unless I could find reliable sources of TF packages, I'd bypass the packages and use th e money for more swarm traps or nucs. JMHO. Best of luck.


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## tmwilson

I'm with Nordak on the feral bees. The last few years I have bought a few packages to supplement what I can split and/or catch from my traps. The swarms I catch are true wild bees, not bees from someones hive. They do very well without any treating at all. My first swarms I caught 4 years ago and all but a couple are still going strong.


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## squarepeg

that's good to hear tm. i see that you aren't too many miles as the crow flies from the ozarks. are you catching those feral swarms in and around labette?


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## dennis crutchfield

R_V said:


> Right, our local bee keepers association spoke on the "no comb" subject Thursday night.
> 
> My question is more about bee packages.
> 
> Basically, are there TF bee packages available from anywhere?


I live in north central Missouri. I will be selling a few nukes this year. if interested. next year I will sell packages. I also will be selling queens too. east fork bee's and honey


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## tmwilson

Hey SP. Yes I am. I know of some trees around here that have had bees for several years. I try to get bees from them each year if I get time. I don't actually live in Labette, but it's closest to me on a good Kansas map. I got my very first bees from a tree in my yard in Pittsburg, KS. It was there with bees for several years before we moved in and they were still there when I left. Just from what I know it's pretty common for bees to survive in trees, logs, walls, or barns in my immediate area. By the way SP, I like reading your 15-16 TF thread. Thanks for doing it.

I'm not that far from the Ozarks, but it's far enough I don't venture over there much. It sure is a nice place to visit though.


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## squarepeg

here's a tally of how many we have listed so far by state:

alabama: 5
arkansas: 5
california: 6
florida: 1
illinois: 3
indiana: 1
iowa: 2
kansas: 2
louisiana: 1
massachussets: 2
michigan: 1
minnesota: 1
missouri: 4
nebraska: 1
north carolina: 2
ohio: 2
oregon: 1
tennessee: 3
texas: 1
vermont: 1
virginia: 5
washington: 1
wisconsin: 4

international:

canada: 1
finland: 1
germany: 1
uk: 1
ukraine: 1


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## squarepeg

very cool tm. nice to know you have surviving ferals there, thanks for the reply, and thanks for the kind words.


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## tpope

I hesitate to raise my hand and declare that I am a member of this group. My goal is to be one yet, I am unsure if I meet the metrics I have set that will permit this declaration. Put me on the team anyways...


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## beepro

This is for a total of 60 members who are tf.
Wonder who's in CA and other states as well?


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## Riverderwent

tpope said:


> I hesitate to raise my hand and declare that I am a member of this group. My goal is to be one yet, I am unsure if I meet the metrics I have set that will permit this declaration. Put me on the team anyways...


You are welcome. You get the desire chip.


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## Tjsegla

CT


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## herbhome

I'm nearing the end of my second winter. Started with 2 packages from Wolf Creek Apiary. One grew like gangbusters and swarmed out in October when drones had already been expelled so I combined the remaining bees. Last spring I made 2 splits from the surviving colony and they appear to be pulling through winter well. I have a vaporizer and OA, but mite counts haven't reached the threshold to treat yet. At this point I am not prepared to simply let my bees die without some help. One of my splits I queened with a purebred Russian queen, the other raised it's own queen that open mated with the feral drones in my hollow. That colony has shown a marked improvement in growth, honey storage and mite counts. I am hoping to get a repeat of that nick this spring while I still have that queen mother. 
I don't think I could honestly call myself treatment free yet as I don't now what year three of even four will bring, but I'm on the path.


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## AvatarDad

tpope said:


> I hesitate to raise my hand and declare that I am a member of this group. My goal is to be one yet, I am unsure if I meet the metrics I have set that will permit this declaration. Put me on the team anyways...


This is sort of me as well. I aspire, but still feel like I have so much to learn that declaring "I am this" seems a little presumptuous. The bees and my mentors are doing their best to teach me, however.

(Or, phrased differently: "I plan to be a TF beekeeper when I grow up")


----------



## squarepeg

drummerboy said:


> ...we've not treated our bees with anything other than providing feed, brood or nutrition and splitting 'as needed' to any of our colonies since 2007. Some years we/they do OK...some years not so good. The winter survivors are always split early in Spring and those that survive another winter are generally considered 'adapted' bees and treated like royalty around here


(drummerboy, i hope you don't mind me quoting you here for future reference. drummerboy is located in sawyer county, wisconsin).


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## ses

This is my second post here on the forum but I've been reading through several of the threads for quite some time.

I am in Northern Indiana and hoping to find a source to purchase treatment free nucs or splits that have over-wintered in the general area. I'm looking for something hopefully within 100 miles radius of the South Bend area which could include Michigan, IL, IN. 

Do you all know anyone in that area that may be selling?


----------



## dennis crutchfield

M-Lane said:


> Hello! I am new to beekeeping, first hive this year. I am located in Missouri and I have had a difficult time finding TF beekeepers near me. So far, I have been reading everything I can about TF beekeeping and hoping I am doing things right.


I live in north central mo near Moberly . I have hives not treated since 2000 and will be raising nukes and queens this year.


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## gww

Dennis
You live in a smaller town then me by 300 people. I am impressed.
gww


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## talox

Just moved back to Connecticut hope to establsh a couple of TF Top bar hives this spring


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## cochranm42

Can you give me your contact information? I would be interested in possibly about 20.


----------



## Bigsal24

Entering my fifth year just west of Tulsa, Oklahoma with no mite treatments. Six hives, local mutts, some Bweaver genetics, and I will be adding a Sam Comfort/anarchy queen to the mix this spring. Transition to foundationless is almost complete. Treatment free is a steep learning curve, but things have stabilized a bit and I'm still learning from the bees every day.


----------



## Swarmhunter

I put in 3 BeeWeaver Queens last July. They built up really strong last Fall. They looked good when checked end of Jan. They're in a separate Apiary and I'm thinking of keeping that Apiary Treatment Free. Anybody else had good luck with their bees? 
Jerry


----------



## Swarmhunter

Forgot to add local conditions, 40F Bees have been doing 1st cleansing flights. Supposed to be 45F to 50F next weekend. Will be doing strength checks and feed needs then. 22 of 23 were ok mid Jan. Building Nuc boxes and looking forward to Spring.
Jerry


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## dennis crutchfield

one hundred and 21 and that is too many


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## bentonkb

Prospect, VA 
I've been catching swarms from an overwintering bee tree near my house and I bought one pure Russian colony a few years ago. TF so far. I bought a OA dribble kit that I never opened. Three long langs in my yard and one standard Lang in an out yard. This years project is learning to raise queens, but I still enjoy catching swarms.


----------



## agm2003

I'm excited about this listing. I'd be even more excited if I could find TF beekeepers near me 

However, I know I'll learn lots from you. Thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge.


----------



## Swarmhunter

Swarmhunter said:


> Have learned a lot these first 3 years. Lost 5 of my 8 hives. Not going to be swayed from my TF production though. I've been studying Kirk Webster, Michael Bush, Michael Palmer,and Larry Connor this winter.
> Will be using deadouts and frames of honey to make increases this Spring. Have been building Nucs all winter.
> I'm looking forward to Spring.
> 
> 10 hives, 3 years, TF for 3 years and going to stay that way. Have 10 Queens from 3 different TF apiaries ordered. Going to mix my genetics up and do a better job of winter preparations.
> 
> Have a great season!


March 2017- Have started using organic compounds for treating mites. Treated last Fall. Have 18 of 23 still going. Going to treat when needed. Also going to use brood breaks this year. Have a good season!


----------



## squarepeg

thanks for the update swarmhunter. are you treating individual colonies when needed and allowing other colonies to remain untreated based on some monitoring method such as mite count?


----------



## AR1

Joining from northern IL. One hive untreated since last year. I have a dozen or so swarm traps out and about, so hope to expand.


----------



## 117866

Brand new in SW Missouri. Planning on being TF. Any advice or a relatively close supplier of TF bees in case I screw this up is more than welcome.


----------



## dennis crutchfield

Dagrin0707 said:


> Brand new in SW Missouri. Planning on being TF. Any advice or a relatively close supplier of TF bees in case I screw this up is more than welcome.


i will be selling some this year. I have not treated since 2000. just let me know. dennis eastfork honey and bee supplies


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney

Swarmhunter said:


> I put in 3 BeeWeaver Queens last July. They built up really strong last Fall. Anybody else had good luck with their bees? Jerry


I have, one of my oldest consecutively living hives (6 years) is headed by an offspring of one their original ladies Treatment free or Bust


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## dennis crutchfield

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> I have, one of my oldest consecutively living hives (6 years) is headed by an offspring of one their original ladies Treatment free or Bust


i have found bee weaver queens have less trouble surviving as treatment free bees.


----------



## navy bee

I am new to beekeeping but want to be treatment free.


----------



## friendlywithbears

Seattle, WA for now.

Likely to build something in the Olympic Peninsula soon as well.


----------



## CLSranch

In Centralia OK. NW of Vinita.
Starting with feral swarms that have overwintered and survived without treatment or my help so far and I intend to keep them TF.

And Dennis I think your town is bigger than mine and I want to move outta town.


----------



## dennis crutchfield

CLSranch said:


> In Centralia OK. NW of Vinita.
> Starting with feral swarms that have overwintered and survived without treatment or my help so far and I intend to keep them TF.
> 
> And Dennis I think your town is bigger than mine and I want to move outta town.


my town has around 100 people in it, and that's too many
when folks drive into town and see 100 hives on the edge of town, well they think I am crazy.


----------



## CLSranch

I'd rather have more hives than people. I'm working on 2 hives and there's 20 houses here. Not sure of the actual head count.


----------



## dennis crutchfield

CLSranch said:


> I'd rather have more hives than people. I'm working on 2 hives and there's 20 houses here. Not sure of the actual head count.


lol, when they turn into our town I have over 100 hives here , and at times working with them and they think I am crazy, I had one the other day all most hit the sign outside my place because they were stretching their necks to see if I would get stung I guess. I can work my hives without veils . but I have no jw's ring the door bell


----------



## tjay

Bakewell, Tennessee and Evensville, Tennessee.
10 hives and 4 nucs.
I have treated just one hive in 14 years.
That does not mean I do not sometimes loose a hive.


----------



## jvoitier

Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I have 4 hives at 2 locations in the city. 2 swarms, 1 previously treated hive ( I ceased all treatments after I got it), and 1 hive with a beeweaver queen.


----------



## tpope

Welcome to beesource and the treatment free portion jvoitier. It sounds like you have a good start.


----------



## drummerboy

I'm afraid that I'm still finding my way around the forum, and have just discovered this thread. oops

Started messing with bees in the 70's, was an off and on Bee Haver for nearly 30 years. 

Been a TF BeeKEEPer since 2007. Foundationless, TF, all Mediums. 

Been a Fan of MB (and many others) since finding his site several years ago. 

We currently have 9 QR colonies that 'should' go into Winter this year. Last year we lost one of 5. We make simple 'early Spring' splits with our strong survivors, and allow them to raise their own queens with good success....so far.

We are very interested in so-called 'Darwinian' beekeeping methods and tried some experiments this season, mainly keeping a few of them confined in smaller broodnests using an excluder, allowing them to swarm (we caught 2), and not worry too much about honey.


----------



## drummerboy

I'm afraid that I'm still finding my way around the forum, and have just discovered this thread. oops

Started messing with bees in the 70's, was an off and on Bee Haver for nearly 30 years. 

Been a TF BeeKEEPer since 2007. Foundationless, TF, all Mediums. 

Been a Fan of MB (and many others) since finding his site several years ago. 

We currently have 9 QR colonies that 'should' go into Winter this year. Last year we lost one of 5. We make simple 'early Spring' splits with our strong survivors, and allow them to raise their own queens with good success....so far.

We are very interested in so-called 'Darwinian' beekeeping methods and tried some experiments this season, mainly keeping a few of them confined in smaller broodnests using an excluder, allowing them to swarm (we caught 2), and not worry too much about honey.


----------



## GregB

After reading the forum for years, I figured I will join too just so to prop up the TF sub-forum representation.
I can not afford to own a farm, but I surely afford to keep bees for nearly-free and be TF while at it. 
Heck, why not. 

(Chasing swarms; building own hives; running horizontal Ukranian deep system)


----------



## GregB

...dubble...


----------



## squarepeg

welcome aboard greg! looking forward to hearing more about your tf experience in wisconsin.


----------



## Branman

Can I be on this list if two of my hives are TF and I plan on grafting off those queens? Want to establish a couple TF yards with their daughters.


----------



## squarepeg

Branman said:


> Can I be on this list if two of my hives are TF and I plan on grafting off those queens? Want to establish a couple TF yards with their daughters.



:thumbsup:


----------



## GregB

Yah.. 
Invested some time on Solomon Parker's TF forum but largely retired from it now. 
I got some postings and pics still hanging there... 
Here is this morning's picture, for those of you down South.


----------



## squarepeg

very cool greg! (pun intended)

thanks for sharing!


----------



## CLSranch

Welcome to all new comers. Sorry it's been awhile since I've been on this forum so their are more than one of you. I'm a Micheal Bush TF lazy beekeeper fan. So Greg glad your here. I only wanted to start raising bee's because of the feral bee's in a tree in my yard. They lived TF why can't others I raise from their swarms???? and if every where there are feral hives (lasting years) TF why can't more.???


----------



## 1102009

Treatment free or journey to treatment free group in central europe.

Interested treaters welcome. Attackers and trolls please keep away. Civilized posting required.

Exchanging of queens, queen cells or nucs with health certificate may be possible in future. Pressing of foundations of own wax in small cell 4.9 offered without costs except shipping costs.

www.VivaBiene.de


----------



## squarepeg

SiWolKe said:


> Exchanging of queens, queen cells or nucs with health certificate may be possible in future.


this sounds like a promising development sibylle, way to go!


----------



## clong

I'm treatment free with two surviving hives. Both from trapped swarms. I'm about 20 miles west of Richmond, VA.

One hive is headed by daughter queen of a swarm from a managed hive.
The other (I suspect) is a feral swarm acquired in West Virginia.
My wife says Mountaineers are always free - including the bees.

This is the end of my third year keeping bees.


----------



## 1102009

squarepeg said:


> this sounds like a promising development sibylle, way to go!


Yes  I forgot: artificial insemination of virgins with tf drones of a "local carniolan-buckfast mutt line", survivors, may be possible too.
I hope my new acquaintance will do this for us with this "line" or do insemination at our own places with our drones.
tf diversity of survivor genetics is a good thing with 2 years survivors.


----------



## Notapro

I have been keeping bees TF with the exception of one hive two years ago since 2014. I am in a rural arwa outside Pensacola, Fl. I started with a nuc and was told I had to treat for Mites. So, I treated and the bees died. In the spring of 2014 a swarm from who knows where moved into my empty hive. From splitting that swarm and setting swarm traps in my yard, I currently have 15 colonies. And, I have given away 9 nucs to friends. My area does not have a lot of agriculture and is about 1 mile from a large river swamp. I think this helps with being treatment free.


----------



## Litsinger

Just found this tread, and I am impressed with the experience and geographic representation in the TF arena.

As a previous poster mentioned, I am not sure I qualify as a TF beekeeper, but I am wrapping up my first year of treatment-free bee husbandry following a long absence post-varroa mite.

I started with two small-cell packages, caught two swarms and started two nucs. I know very little- but the one thing that this year taught me is that catching local swarms is the way to go.


----------



## GregB

Litsinger said:


> Just found this tread, and I am impressed with the experience and geographic representation in the TF arena.
> 
> As a previous poster mentioned, I am not sure I qualify as a TF beekeeper, but I am wrapping up my first year of treatment-free bee husbandry following a long absence post-varroa mite.
> 
> I started with two small-cell packages, caught two swarms and started two nucs. I know very little- but the one thing that this year taught me is that catching local swarms is the way to go.


Keep in mind the local swarm quality largely depends on the location.
In my locality the caught swarms are typically escaped commercial bees. 
Hard to expect from them to be long-term chem-free survivors.

As for me, I pretty quickly ditched that "feral swarm" trapping - no feral swarms here.
I only chaise those swarms so to exploit them for different, useful things.


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## Litsinger

GregV: Thank you for your helpful feedback. My limited perspective suggests that you are right concerning beekeeping being a lot like politics insofar that much of it is built upon local dynamics- what works in one environment may not translate to other areas. Again, thank you for the input and I sincerely hope that you and your family have a most joyous and blessed Christmas and prosperous New Year.


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## GregB

Litsinger said:


> GregV: Thank you for your helpful feedback. My limited perspective suggests that you are right concerning beekeeping being a lot like politics insofar that much of it is built upon local dynamics- what works in one environment may not translate to other areas. Again, thank you for the input and I sincerely hope that you and your family have a most joyous and blessed Christmas and prosperous New Year.


Good wishes to you as well, Litsinger!
Keep plugging at it.

One more suggestion and I will be done - do scout out fellow keepers with feral/mite resistant queens for sale (or exchange or even for free taking). 
Then get few and try them out.
For my heavily commercialized location, this seems to be a way forward - bringing good genetics from the outside sources and getting the ball rolling that way. I am optimistic.


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## Litsinger

Thank you, GregV. Good advice. I do appreciate your input. Part of my rationale for posting to this thread is to hopefully network with other TF beeks in my area to hopefully do just as you suggest. I do appreciate the help and encouragement.


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## Swarmhunter

Just an update on my beekeeping experience. Wanted to stay TF but the loss of hives changed my mind for a few years. I thought switching back to treating for mites was the only answer. What I found out was my time management and time allowed for beekeepng was the real problem. Years ago my method for mite control was going to be OTS and what I found out is if you're not dedicated to putting in the time - at the proper time gap - that failure was very probable. Too many irons in the fire to do a good job with OTS. Also tuning up your Queen catching skills a must. Something most new beekeepers are not very good at. I've learned a lot since then.
Gong to start over with a new outlook on beekeeping. I'll try to keep anybody who's interested informed.
Have 12 hives out this winter. Hoping for the best


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## squarepeg

great to hear back from you swarmhunter, and looking forward to hearing about your experience up there in iowa.


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## Litsinger

Swarmhunter said:


> I'll try to keep anybody who's interested informed.


Swarmhunter:

I'll look forward to hear how your efforts progress this upcoming season. Like you I am sitting at 12 hives thus far.


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## Swarmhunter

Spent a few seasons treating for mites. Thought I had to. I'm back to doing what I want to -- TF
Will be cataloging my OTS through the season. I'll try to keep everybody informed
Jerry


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## AR1

Well Greg, if my current bees survive another year or two TF, you are welcome to try some. Not far away at all.


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## Earthboy

I read the "Member Listing" and thought I need your permission if I can butt in? 

Am too busy, like most of you, to keep up with postings, which is a good thing when you are working bees. But I do try to catch up once in a while. My silence does not mean I have wandered off.

Again, I am humbled and honored that so many of you are trying hard and your best to keep bees, using a sustainable, long-term, survival strategy. Please remember, anything worthwhile in life does not come easily. Let's remember the war motto: "neva surrenda."

Respectfully,

Earthboy


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## NJBeeVet

I've kept bees for about five years in top bars, Last season i ditched the treatments and had my most successful overwintering yet(9/14) which I attribute mostly to luck, but I'm interested to see where this takes me. If I can do this for three years without catastrophic losses, I'll consider the experiment a success and try to get local beekeepers on board with trying it in their own hives. I'm driven by the idea that the only truly long-term solution to varroa is genetic, and thankfully im not obsessed with honey harvests or devestated by deadouts. Treating was such a pain in top bar hives anyway and I'm sure I wasn't doing it effectively. I'd rather save the hive visits on funner things in the future


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## GregB

NJBeeVet said:


> If I can do this for three years without catastrophic losses, I'll consider the experiment a success


My desired (but unrealized) goal was to consistently have 50% survival off chems.
Had I had the 50% level predictably, I'd stick with the "off chems" way and don't look back.
Sending 20 units into the winter and getting 10 units back every spring - this is quite a sustainable and manageable situation IMO.


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## NJBeeVet

GregV said:


> My desired (but unrealized) goal was to consistently have 50% survival off chems.
> Had I had the 50% level predictably, I'd stick with the "off chems" way and don't look back.
> Sending 20 units into the winter and getting 10 units back every spring - this is quite a sustainable and manageable situation IMO.


That's exactly what I would use as my criteria. 50 % losses would allow for easily replacing your numbers and some honey for personal use and friends. Any swarm catches would be a bonus. 75% or above losses consistently would be disheartening, you'd be spending every year just building back your apiary, and on top of that you'd have so much comb that you'd have to protect from wax moths. My only true non treatment years were my first and my last. Year 1 0/1, year 2 1/2, year 3 1/4. Year 4 3/12. year 5 9/14. I think the next step is handing out queen cells to local beekeepers. Anything to stem the tide if packages into the area would be ideal


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## Litsinger

NJBeeVet:

Glad to see your post here on the list. It sounds like your past experiences have prepared you for the challenges (and opportunities) that TF beekeeping brings.

I do hope you will post about your efforts from time-to-time, and I'll look forward to seeing you here on the TF boards.

Russ


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## JWChesnut

--


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## Deen

squarepeg said:


> the purpose of this thread is to create a directory of sorts for those looking for treatment free beekeeping operations near their location. the goal is to enable the sharing of information and resources that may be area specific such as management practices and sources for bees and queens.
> 
> i don't think it's necessary for us to get hung up on a strict definition for treatment free here. there are those (such as member 'astrobee') who have outstanding breeding programs and are working hard at selecting for mite resistance traits that may utilize a treatment if needed from time to time. those of you utilizing treatments as part of a plan to develop bee strains capable of doing well off treatments are welcome and encouraged to list yourself on this thread.
> 
> so if you are so inclined, whether just beginning with bees or have been at it for awhile, whether maintaining a large operation or a small one, please make a post and let us know who and where you are. information regarding treatment free bee suppliers who may not be forum members would be helpful as well. many thanks.


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## Deens Bees

Deen Richardson deensbees.com Petersburg, Indiana (South West Indiana)
Running 8 frame medium equipment. Currently running 12 hives of survivor stock and caught swarms from 3 bee trees I've been guarding since 2017. Overwintered a dozen nucs in single 8 frame medium boxes this year. Built 10 double 4 frame medium queen castles and trying my hand at raising queens for myself and to sell if I can make myself stop expanding lol.

I'm a side liner that started treatment free because I didn't know there was another way. My grandfather was a beekeeper 40+ years ago. My dad decided he would like to try it in 2016. I went with him to a beekeeper meeting in Henderson KY. Lots of locals had raffles so, being a good guest, I dropped a dollar in each box expecting nothing. Grand prize was announced at the end of the night and, you guessed it, I WON a double deep hive populated with bees! This was in February so I had a few months to prepare. I'm a hobby woodworker and tinkerer in all things so, after just the researching and preparing phase, I was hooked upon learning the variety of strategies in keeping bees.
Fist Apiculture society function I attended the next spring, I was berated when I couldn't describe my "mite treatment strategy" even though both my hives (yes a built a hive and bought bees from a local that first year) overwintered. I immediately bought some mite away strips and proceeded to follow the instructions. As soon as I got the lid off of the plastic container (not the sealed plastic just the container lid) and the smell hit me, I carried the unopened tub down to the burn pile and incinerated it. I'm not putting anything that smells that rancid in a box with beeswax I said to myself and never listened to the statement "treat your bees or they will die" again.


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## Litsinger

Deen: Glad to welcome you here on Beesource. We've chatted a few times on FB over the past few years. I am located just a bit south of you in Western Kentucky.

Glad to have you aboard. I'll look forward to your contributions on the forum.

Russ


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## James Lee

My name is James. I keep bees in SE Michigan. I have 26 colonies right now and have never treated. This will be the first winter I expect to get bees through. Had to change quite a few things this last year, what I was doing previously was t going to work for me.


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## Some Bloke

Near Oxford, UK. BritishTF beekeepers tend to gather in loose local peer networks and kept their heads down until a couple of years ago, when a threshold was reached and we realised how many of us there are. About half the TF beekeepers I know do not want to be on any kind of register.


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## GregB

thegospelisgood said:


> My name is James. I keep bees in SE Michigan. I have 26 colonies right now and have never treated. This will be the first winter I expect to get bees through. Had to change quite a few things this last year, what I was doing previously was t going to work for me.


Hey James,
How long have you been doing TF and what was the failure rate over this time?
Thanks.


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## James Lee

GregB said:


> Hey James,
> How long have you been doing TF and what was the failure rate over this time?
> Thanks.


3 years TF. I've never treated as a beekeeper. Started this way. Thanks to Solomon I found it to be something I could do. Didn't know he was so well loved though lol. I lost all my colonies the first year save a queen and her attendants that somehow made it through April in Michigan and I bred from queen cells they made and made 3 then 3 more.


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## GregB

thegospelisgood said:


> 3 years TF. I've never treated as a beekeeper. Started this way. Thanks to Solomon I found it to be something I could do. Didn't know he was so well loved though lol. I lost all my colonies the first year save a queen and her attendants that somehow made it through April in Michigan and I bred from queen cells they made and made 3 then 3 more.


......and what was the failure rate over this time? 

PS: feel free to talk about it in my thread (not here); not a big deal - no pressure; but I am a straight forward guy, just saying ...


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## Litsinger

thegospelisgood said:


> My name is James. I keep bees in SE Michigan.


Welcome to the forum, James- I will look forward to your contributions!


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## Litsinger

Some Bloke said:


> Near Oxford, UK.


Glad to have you involved in the forum here, and I do look forward to continuing to read about your experiences and observations.


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## Swarmhunter

Hello everyone- Thought I'd let everyone know what I've been doing the last year. Have over 30 hives all reconfigured last Spring into med.- deep - med. and all with brood breaks by pulling nucs or requeening splits. I had every intention of staying treatment free again with everything starting last Spring. In August during harvest season I started doing some mite checks and found over half of them had high mite checks. Some really high. I did three rounds of OA treatments and fed in Sept. - Oct. Everything looked good as far as strengths in Nov. 2 or more inches of foam on all hives. Some of my ten frames hives I wrapped with hive wraps too. Entrance in bottom box, with no top ventilation. Winter patties on top.
As of today in mid Jan. everything is alive. I'd love to stay TF but until my requeening and introducing of resistance stock takes a better hold I'll be treating if I need to. Will be grafting from best hives and selling Nucs this Spring
Hope the winter treats everybody gently.
Jerry


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## Will O'Brien

Hi everyone, I am in Northeast Ohio.


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## Litsinger

Will O'Brien said:


> Hi everyone, I am in Northeast Ohio.


Welcome back, Will. How's your TF keeping going?


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## Will O'Brien

Hi Litsinger, So far so good with my experience this year, although it has just started. I had on old hive in the backyard that was abandoned a few years ago. I feral hive moved in and they are going strong. I inspected them today and winter preparations are underway. There is a handful or so of capped brood and I did not see any larva. They are still bringing in nectar and pollen and, while still gentle, they are getting a bit more protective. So I would say that they are on schedule - no surprise. I am looking forward to the Spring and adding a few hives (hopefully from catching swarms) and resource nucs. It feels great to get back to the bees. I hope that you are well. How is your year going?


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## Litsinger

Will O'Brien said:


> It feels great to get back to the bees. I hope that you are well. How is your year going?


Will:

My apologies in delay- is this your first year back with bees? How long you been away from it?

I am 5 years into my return to beekeeping after a long hiatus- like you, I'm glad to be back in it.

We are all well by God's grace, and it's been a good year on balance. Have had a few queen issues this year which is a new wrinkle.

One thing about beekeeping it is always changing, and there are always new discoveries.

I'll look forward to reading about your efforts here on the forum.

Russ


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