# For those having trouble finding the queen....



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x236/BjornBee/?action=view&current=Beepictures007.jpg


Can you guarantee the pedigree of that queen? I mean I want a 100% purebred Russianitaliancarnicaus hybrid!!!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I'll say.... er, guarantee anything you want it to be.....


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> I'll say.... er, guarantee anything you want it to be.....


As long as you can prove it.


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## Curtis (Jun 25, 2005)

Take some of that nectar out...she wants to lay.
She's perdy.
Curtis


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Dan, (anyone)
Want to take a guess on what she is?


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Looks like a NWC....although I get some of my mutts coming out looking like that, an call'em a tiger stripe.


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## newbee 101 (May 26, 2004)

Ill starting the bidding at $15...


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## bleta12 (Feb 28, 2007)

Her mother was darker than her and the cross italian carnolian is at least in 3 generations. She is closer to italian than carnolian, her father was for sure very italian.

Gilman


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

editing.....just checking some photos out.....


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

................


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> Dan, (anyone)
> Want to take a guess on what she is?


I was gonna say Russian....

I'm not sure though... I mostly only have Carni's. Most of mine are darker than that. I have had some though that were a Carni/mutt that looked similar. I had a Russian hybrid once. It looked almost identical to that one.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Dan, interesting comments.

Almost all of my queens this year were from a carni/smr I/I breeders, and a selected queen from a batch of NWC queens from strachans from last year. It seems that even for a pure breeder, the offspring is somewhat different. I pulled this queen from a carni breeding nuc. I'll have to check on the line. All my breeders are clipped and marked. So I know they are what they should be.

I mention this becuase I know two breeders who use pure stock from Charlie Harper. As peggjam commented, they call them "tiger" russians or some variation of being "tiger striped". And they look very similar to whats in the photo. 

Two years ago, I ordered a russian breeder and a carni breeder. They arrived at the same time. They could of been identical sisters. I could not tell them apart. I called and was assured they were what they were. 

I have bought carni's that were jet black, tiger striped, and somewhat lighter except for the tip which was darker. I have bought russians in the same range but perhaps not in the "jet black" catagory.

Its interesting to here others comments, and perhaps what the industry see's. I think Bleta's comments have some merit as to the purity of the mentioned queen(photo). I will not devulge where her mother came from, but I certainly have some questions, thats for sure.

I'm going to work on a photo data bank of pictures. I think it would be interesting for side by side comparisions with pictures.

I do have one queen that I have produced that has tiger strips, but is a very light "whitish" color. Not the gray or yellow base that you normally see with russians, cani or italians. They have a very plump, translucent look to them. Prolific layers and good producers. Not sure if its a combination of a particular mix of the bees I carry, or a gene variation that pops up every so often. I'll see if I can get a picture.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Certainly there is no "Given" on color or striping or any other characteristics. There are generalities obviously...

The breeder I got from Glenn does seem to have a little striping although the queen is darker. I only grafted from her yesterday and haven't seen the offspring yet.

The more I think about it the Carnie queens that I've had that have some Italian in them do have a similar look. I believe the Russian hybrid I had that looked identical was Russian/ Italian.

Frankly, the "look" is less important to me than production as I'm sure it is with most people.

I should try to take some pics of some of my queens too and compare.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> Dan, (anyone)
> Want to take a guess on what she is?


Looks a bit lighter than the Russians I had several years ago.

Looking at workers and the queen I will say more Russian than not due to the fact that the russian queens I had were often found sitting on frames of honey or nectar at this time of year.

Joe


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