# Aficanized bees are fake



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

And you base your statement on? The title of this thread is "Africanized bees are fake" and then you talk about behavior ascribed to the fake bees. Most studies that I am aware of decry the phrase "killer bees" in favor of language that talks about defensive behavior, mostly surrounding the nest. That may be what you were trying to say, but it is not what you said.

I'm as certain as I can be that bees of African origin are present in some southern portions of the United States, having migrated from Brazil.

I don't want to put words in your mouth: what is it that you intended to say?


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

African bees are not from AFRICA. This is a Apis Mellifera honeybee. Tropical bees like Apis Dorsata and Cerana are a different race and are tropical honeybees. The African urban bee legand is still Apis Mellifera. It is not a hybrid. They do have different behavior because they adapted to the tropics. Because they are tropical they do not gather propolis. Propolis gathering is a strategy developed because of the long winter periods without nectar plants so they could not make wax to repair the hive. The Killer bee IS FAKE! I know this because educated scientists told ME in 1972 that by 1976 they would change the United States forever! It is past 1976 and even past the MAYAN calendar doomsday. The bees are still the same EVEN in BRAZIL.


----------



## Runswithbees (Feb 1, 2012)

I am so happy to know somebody else knows about the Africanized killer bee lies! It seems pretty common sense to me that Apis Melliferra x Apis Melliferra = Apis Melliferra. How can people actually believe all the over sensationalized molarchy?


----------



## Jerky_san (May 18, 2015)

Well I believe the reason they earned that name is because of how much more aggressive they are compared to the standard honey bee we've come to know and love. The bees that we have spreading are supposedly from an original 26 hives brought back from Africa by a scientist in Brazil attempting to breed the ultimate honey bee that would produce massive amounts of honey but also be very diseases proof. One of his bee keeper helpers accidentally let them out and they've gradually made their way up from Brazil to the US. They can't kill with one sting or anything but they generally chase their target for much further distances and are generally a lot more easy to aggravate. I've read though that they can't spread much further north in the US due to their inability to weather the cold. They tend to use up all their honey because they don't slow down reproduction during the winter months and will eventually starve themselves(or rob another hive).


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

They didn't EARN that name. Don't you know about the propaganda the Brazilian government put out? Read this: http://www.badbeekeeping.com/kerr.htm.


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Runswithbees said:


> I am so happy to know somebody else knows about the Africanized killer bee lies! It seems pretty common sense to me that Apis Melliferra x Apis Melliferra = Apis Melliferra. How can people actually believe all the over sensationalized molarchy?


Most news is over sensationalized to keep everyone tuning in next time.


----------



## Runswithbees (Feb 1, 2012)

Over sensationalizing is the name of game! No one would watch monster movies it they didn't.


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)




----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Runswithbees said:


> I am so happy to know somebody else knows about the Africanized killer bee lies! It seems pretty common sense to me that Apis Melliferra x Apis Melliferra = Apis Melliferra. How can people actually believe all the over sensationalized molarchy?



yes but Apis mellifera scutelata x Apis mellifera ligustica produce some very crazy aggressive bees. Then again, anytime you cross and race of bee, you can get a hybrid vigor that sometimes shows as defensiveness


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Come to Arizona Ill show you some in my yard. Or if you prefer Ill see if I can ship you some. If bees attack you and follow you in a back of a truck at 50 miles an hour for one mile and still attack you when the driver stops. What would you call that ?


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Dan P said:


> Come to Arizona Ill show you some in my yard. Or if you prefer Ill see if I can ship you some. If bees attack you and follow you in a back of a truck at 50 miles an hour for one mile and still attack you when the driver stops. What would you call that ?


Fake bees?


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> yes but Apis mellifera scutelata x Apis mellifera ligustica produce some very crazy aggressive bees. Then again, anytime you cross and race of bee, you can get a hybrid vigor that sometimes shows as defensiveness


:shhhh: Let's see where this one goes. LOL


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Your hive must be queenless and your speedometer and odometer is BROKEN!


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Moccasin said:


> They didn't EARN that name. Don't you know about the propaganda the Brazilian government put out? Read this: http://www.badbeekeeping.com/kerr.htm.


interesting that they claim german black bees were more aggressive than the Africanized honey bee


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

This is getting better by the minute.


----------



## Runswithbees (Feb 1, 2012)

Dan P said:


> Come to Arizona Ill show you some in my yard. Or if you prefer Ill see if I can ship you some. If bees attack you and follow you in a back of a truck at 50 miles an hour for one mile and still attack you when the driver stops. What would you call that ?


50 mph? Give me a break? What have you been putting in your smoker?


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

That was going to be a cutout. It turned into a extermination job instead. Have you seen a swarm consume hive after hive? complete engulf kill eat and goto the next and then next and stay at the last in a row? Its a very sad sight to watch.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Moccasin said:


> Your hive must be queenless and your speedometer and odometer is BROKEN!



huh?


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> interesting that they claim german black bees were more aggressive than the Africanized honey bee


It's because the Africanized honey bee is FAKE remember. :lpf:


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

queenless hives are not aggresive


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Dan P said:


> That was going to be a cutout. It turned into a extermination job instead. Have you seen a swarm consume hive after hive? complete engulf kill eat and goto the next and then next and stay at the last in a row? Its a very sad sight to watch.


No one in Africa or Brazil has EVER seen a bee fly faster than 20 miles per hour nor eat other honeybees, Apis Mellifera does not have the ability to cannibalize and scutallata or adonsii are still apis mellifera. No difference.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

They follow along ways. No **** it happened. When they were done no bees in any hive or food.I didnt mean they ate the other bees. they are not wasps


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Dan P said:


> queenless hives are not aggresive


 Oh really? What have you been putting in your smoker?


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

This is the first thread I'm checking in the morning!


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

lets see this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucA4Ve4eKM


vs 


this 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phlmCmojzEY


lol


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

So Moccasin, are you saying there are no differences in any of the subspecies of honey bees?


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Thats like saying every bird is a bird , no difference


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> lets see this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucA4Ve4eKM
> 
> ...


Those first one must be queenless. :scratch:


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Ya the first video. So there is no difference? just the speed of the video, correct?


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Brad Bee said:


> Those first one must be queenless. :scratch:


that was my first thought


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Do you also believe in Bigfoot? I have seen plenty of those videos.


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

This is sort of like a car wreck. I know better than to look, but do anyway.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

show me one of bigfoot attacking people. are you seriously denying that the bees that came up from brazil that were originally developed in Africa that are commonly know as Africanized bees are not aggressive?


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Brad Bee said:


> This is sort of like a car wreck. I know better than to look, but do anyway.



You know I should take my dad's advice more often ( now I'm not pointing fingers ) but He used to always tell me to never argue with an idiot, because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. LOL


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

LOL

I'm going to iron my tinfoil hat, then go to bed.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

I guess you could ask Gloria at the bee research center or Marla. Im sure they might give you some knowledge


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Brad Bee said:


> LOL
> 
> I'm going to iron my tinfoil hat, then go to bed.



just don't dry it in the microwave


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

You need to take a trip to Brazil. The bees are the same there. They keep more bees than we do and their kids help them. The whole thing is a lie. Didn't you look up the link I gave you? Are you trying to bad mouth our USA honeybees? Why do you wish to damage our beekeeping operations with fake monster stories? This is not constructive. Honeybees need our help not false witness.


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> show me one of bigfoot attacking people. are you seriously denying that the bees that came up from brazil that were originally developed in Africa that are commonly know as Africanized bees are not aggressive?


Here's your proof!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc7U_Z83xbw


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

As I stated at the convention in Anaheim California. Be warned. They survive the cold very well and sooner than later they will be every where. Already reported in Colorado. And I am allowed to ship them for pollination. And they have the dominate genes.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Moccasin said:


> You need to take a trip to Brazil. The bees are the same there. They keep more bees than we do and their kids help them. The whole thing is a lie. Didn't you look up the link I gave you? Are you trying to bad mouth our USA honeybees? Why do you wish to damage our beekeeping operations with fake monster stories? This is not constructive. Honeybees need our help not false witness.



and your point is? straight Russian bees are normally quite gentle, but if you cross them with Italians, they can become quite aggressive too. It's the Africanized bee that is hyper aggressive, not the straight African bee raised in brazil


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Watch a video of harvesting honey in Africa. The american domesticated bee is in trouble. But there are plenty of bees here and other parts of this country. Is there a shortage ?


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Harley Craig said:


> and your point is? straight Russian bees are normally quite gentle, but if you cross them with Italians, they can become quite aggressive too. It's the Africanized bee that is hyper aggressive, not the straight African bee raised in brazil


I have all kinds of Russian Queens and Carniolans and Italians . They have crossed over the years and they are still just the same. I have lived in South Texas and Arizona and bees are not any different there. The link I put on here obviously has not been read. It told how the whole lie got started.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Moccasin said:


> I have all kinds of Russian Queens and Carniolans and Italians . They have crossed over the years and they are still just the same. I have lived in South Texas and Arizona and bees are not any different there. The link I put on here obviously has not been read. It told how the whole lie got started.


the lie was that he was making a Frankenstein bee designed to be crazy, that was not the case, still doesn't mean they aren't crazy. Our inspector checked my neighbor who ended up buying an Africanized queen from Texas and his hive got crazy mean, she stated that she studied in Brazil for several yrs and said they are quite aggressive over there.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Does your fire trucks have soapy water to spray on bees and the fire fighters wear veils?


----------



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

During the last ice age, bees were wiped out in almost all of Europe. They survived in Africa and a very limited strip around the Mediterranean. Even before that, honeybees originated in Asia and spread west into Africa before migrating into Europe. All of our honeybees are African! Go back further and all of our honeybees are Asian!

If you would speak with authority about Africanized bees, go to Texas or Arizona and work with them. Then you can come back and tell us all about how they are just misunderstood little darlin's. Better yet, go to Africa and work with the pure species. I have pictures of a beekeeper with what looks like a swarm on the back of his bee suit. He was removing honey from pure Scutellata and they clustered on the back of his suit. They were not there to promote his health and well-being.

Micrapis has 2 recognized species with Apis Florea and Apis Andreniformis and are the oldest extant honeybee species. They are native to southeast Asia with significantly overlapping territory though genetically separate from each other.

Megapis is represented by Dorsata, but has three recognized subspecies with Dorsata proper, Laboriosa, and Binghami. They are native to Asia, the Himalayas, and Indonesia respectively.

Apis has 4 recognized species with Koschevnikovi, Nigrocincta, Cerana, and Mellifera.

Apis Koschevnikovi has relatively limited distribution in Borneo.

Apis Nigrocincta is limited to the Philippines.

Apis Cerana can arguably be divided into about 50 identifiable subspecies. This is the least defined of the honeybee groups. Mellifera split from Cerana probably about 2 million years ago.

Apis Mellifera is currently divided into 28 recognized subspecies with some argument that a few more should be acknowledged:
Northern Europe: A. m. mellifera

Southern Europe: A. m. artemisia, A. m. carnica, A. m. cecropia, A. m. iberiensis, A. m. ligustica, A. m. macedonica, A. m. madaros, A.m. ruttneri, A. m. siciliana, A. m. sossimai

Middle East: A. m. adami, A. m. anatoliaca, A. m. caucasia, A. m. cypria, A. m. meda, A. m. remipes, A. m. syriaca

African: A. m. adansonii, A. m. capensis, A. m. intermissa, A. m. jemenitica, A. m. lamarckii, A. m. litorea, A. m. monticola, A. m. sahariensis, A. m. scutellata, A. m. unicolor


It is easy to argue that Africanized bees don't exist. Killer bees are definitely not. Still, if you cross A. m. Scutellata with A. m. Carnica or A. m. Ligustica, you wind up with a very very aggressive bee. What exactly do you propose we should call these bees that correctly describes their aggressive behavior?


----------



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

sorry, duplicate.


----------



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> lets see this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucA4Ve4eKM
> 
> ...


Heh. That first hive looks like my feral hive. When I pop the top cover it's like someone is slingshotting bees at my veil. 

My second hive, purchased as a package from Bill Bee's in Tujunga, is completely different. They definitely buzz around me, checking me out, but they don't attack me.

That second video is unbelievable.


----------



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Moccasin said:


> I have all kinds of Russian Queens and Carniolans and Italians . They have crossed over the years and they are still just the same. I have lived in South Texas and Arizona and bees are not any different there. The link I put on here obviously has not been read. It told how the whole lie got started.


I read the article, and the author clearly doesn't know much about bees:



> When their colonies are attacked or approached, they tend to swarm and sting with abandon.


Anyone who keeps bees or talks to beekeepers wouldn't use "swarm" in that sentence.


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Really? You should come work my bees then, not one bee checks me out for the most part, in reference to the second video being unbelievable


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Now that is information


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Heh. That first hive looks like my feral hive. When I pop the top cover it's like someone is slingshotting bees at my veil.
> 
> My second hive, purchased as a package from Bill Bee's in Tujunga, is completely different. They definitely buzz around me, checking me out, but they don't attack me.
> 
> That second video is unbelievable.


I watch all of JP's videos, he hardly ever suits up, pretty cool and knowledgeable dude !


----------



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

JRG13 said:


> Really? You should come work my bees then, not one bee checks me out for the most part


I just requeened that feral hive last week with a VSH x Italian cross from Broke-T, so I'm hoping it cools down a bit. I'll check Tuesday to see if she's laying.

I don't want to check tomorrow or Monday, because I find that I can't even walk around in the yard for the rest of the day after opening that hive. If I'm within 50 feet I'll get buzzed and bumped, and I have about a 50% chance of getting stung. I have friends coming over Monday, which means I don't want to touch the hive until Tuesday.

It's that kind of hassle that made me requeen it.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Ive watched youtube videos of guys in short sleeves and no gloves or veils. I think, man that sure would be nice


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Moccasin said:


> I have all kinds of Russian Queens and Carniolans and Italians . They have crossed over the years and they are still just the same. I have lived in South Texas and Arizona and bees are not any different there. The link I put on here obviously has not been read. It told how the whole lie got started.


Your Profile says nothing about you or your apiary, other than that you are 50. How many hives have you had for how long? What's your back ground?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Moccasin said:


> They didn't EARN that name. Don't you know about the propaganda the Brazilian government put out? Read this: http://www.badbeekeeping.com/kerr.htm.


I was under the impression that Dr. Kerr was an American, not a Brazilian. An American working in Brazil. Formerly employed by the USDA. I believe he would have been a contemperary of Dr. Walter Rothenbeuller's.

"*Consequently, Kerr's work at improving the honey bee by importing Africanized stock was at first ridiculed and criticised within his country" 

The stock was not Africanized until the bees brought from Africa mated with other bees already in Brazil.*


----------



## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> lets see this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucA4Ve4eKM
> 
> ...


 That second video was absolutely awesome !


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Someone is just a little dilusional mark.


----------



## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

opcorn:


----------



## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

I do not know why I am entering this thread, but here goes. One of the oldest arguments in biology is nature vs nurture. In other words what behavior is learned and what is genetically controlled. Speciation can be done on physical traits or behavioral traits. While there is undoubtedly over lap in behaviors of the honey bee subspecies there are differences too. Some taxonomists are lumpers and some are splitters. Scutelatta has some very different traits from melifera and those traits are dominant or enhanced in the hybrids. Some of the hybrids are manageable and some are not. We have selected for gentleness in melifera, and given enough time we might be able to do the same with scutellata. The presence of feral colonies could make the selection impossible though. The media has painted scutellata as a monster, and this is probably greatly exaggerated, but to say that there are no differences between the subspecies is wrong to. Our first two hive were from southern Texas one was nice to deal with the other was insanely mean and persistent in attack.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Does seem like normal bee behavior? Every year multiply incidents like this happen.

Cottonwood Firefighters responded to a residence in the 1400 block of East Ash Street on Thursday morning
(May 7th) for a swarm of bees that had attacked several people with two being transported to the hospital after
they ran to a nearby business to escape the bees.
A bee hive had been disturbed by a person
using a weed eater on their property and were
very active and aggressive to a distance of
approximately two blocks surrounding the
property.
Cottonwood Firefighters utilized Class A foam
(similar to dish soap) to try to control the bees
but were unable to reach the hive. People in
the area were warned to use caution when
outdoors. The removal of the bees has been
referred to local bee removal personnel.


----------



## MAJ_MALFUNCTION (May 30, 2013)

I agree with the OP's statement - there is no such thing as Aficanized bees. Heck, I've never even heard of Aficanized bees!


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

We had a bunch of bees down in south Texas a number of years ago. Ended up requeening the whole lot of them and getting them the heck out of there. I couldn't even begin to count all the fake stings I got trying to work them.


----------



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I fully agree that AmxAm=AM but having said that beyond the race of bee there is the topic of gene expression. If one group of bees has developed with an strong gene expression for aggression then that group of bees would be known as "killer bees" and breeding to select that gene expression would not be advantageous for farmed bees....although for feral stock it may be a strong survival trait.
I don't think folks are saying killer bees...bees with selective gene expression for defensiveness...are a different type of bee simply that they have bred to select for an extreme behaviour.





Runswithbees said:


> I am so happy to know somebody else knows about the Africanized killer bee lies! It seems pretty common sense to me that Apis Melliferra x Apis Melliferra = Apis Melliferra. How can people actually believe all the over sensationalized molarchy?


----------



## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

I believe there may have been some alcohol involved with the beginning of this thread. Not a peep yet today.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Agreed


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Don't feed the trolls.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

MAJ_MALFUNCTION said:


> I agree with the OP's statement - there is no such thing as Aficanized bees. Heck, I've never even heard of Aficanized bees!


I see what you did there brilliant!


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Were we on Facebook the OPer would have been banned for Trolling. Or, at least the Thread would have been Deleted.


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Brad Bee said:


> This is sort of like a car wreck. I know better than to look, but do anyway.


Good one. It's been a hoot though.


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Dave Burrup said:


> I do not know why I am entering this thread, but here goes. One of the oldest arguments in biology is nature vs nurture. In other words what behavior is learned and what is genetically controlled. Speciation can be done on physical traits or behavioral traits. While there is undoubtedly over lap in behaviors of the honey bee subspecies there are differences too. Some taxonomists are lumpers and some are splitters. Scutelatta has some very different traits from melifera and those traits are dominant or enhanced in the hybrids. Some of the hybrids are manageable and some are not. We have selected for gentleness in melifera, and given enough time we might be able to do the same with scutellata. The presence of feral colonies could make the selection impossible though. The media has painted scutellata as a monster, and this is probably greatly exaggerated, but to say that there are no differences between the subspecies is wrong to. Our first two hive were from southern Texas one was nice to deal with the other was insanely mean and persistent in attack.


I must say Apis Mellifera Scutellata is Apis Mellifera. Are you talking about Apis Mellifera Mellifera? That would be the black bee and it is not available anymore. The wild Apis Mellifera African honeybees are just as gentle as the Apis Mellifera bees anywhere else. There are lots of films of African people taking honey from wild bees in jungle trees with only rudimentary smoke tools and absolutely no protective gear. Regardless color can be selected for but gentleness is already inherent in Apis Mellifera. I also kept bees in Texas and visited with Mr. Weaver of Navasota that mass produced the Buckfast queens before he and Brother Adam died. There is NOTHING wrong with Texas queens or California queens or Florida queens. NOTHING has changed in honeybees except HIVE BEETLES and VARROA DESTRUCTOR. I have kept bees all my life.


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3IAZq-mGwY Here's your killer bee honey being harvested the same way its been harvested for thousands of years.


----------



## Runswithbees (Feb 1, 2012)

Moccasin said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3IAZq-mGwY Here's your killer bee honey being harvested the same way its been harvested for thousands of years.


Why are U.S. "Beekeepers" so hell bent on the evil propaganda against bees and nature?


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Runswithbees said:


> Why are U.S. "Beekeepers" so hell bent on the evil propaganda against bees and nature?


Because we are TV fanatics! As I remember this all started out with stupid fake pulp horror films like "The swarm" and "Killer Bees"in 1972 a decade after the 1957 Brazilian dictatorship made up the Assassin bee story about professor Warwick Kerr training bees to kill military officials at night. TV gets lots of ratings with this crap.


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Moccasin said:


> I must say Apis Mellifera Scutellata is Apis Mellifera. Are you talking about Apis Mellifera Mellifera?


By your logic there is no Apis mellifera mellifera, there is only Apis mellifera.

There are either subspecies, or there aren't. You can't have it both ways.

Definition of subspecies: (emphasis added)

: a subdivision of a species: as
*a : a category in biological classification that ranks immediately below a species and designates a population of a particular geographic region genetically distinguishable from other such populations of the same species and capable of interbreeding successfully with them where its range overlaps theirs*
b : a named subdivision (as a race or variety) of a taxonomic species
c : subgroup 1 <a political subspecies>


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Runswithbees said:


> Why are U.S. "Beekeepers" so hell bent on the evil propaganda against bees and nature?


Is there lead in the drinking water supply in Pope county AR?


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

One of the fun things about Beesource, it's big enough that it's got all sorts.


----------



## NatalieC (May 26, 2015)

africanized bees are not killer bees the cant kill u there mean thats why we call them killer bees but there not fake at all there real type of bee that make honey


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

The reason they have been called killer bees is cause hundreds attack not one or 15 at once.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

That video didnt say they were in Africa. It said they were short people.


----------



## mac (May 1, 2005)

They are called killer bees cause folks have been killed by them


----------



## DmacShack (May 22, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> interesting that they claim german black bees were more aggressive than the Africanized honey bee


Agreed, we have some feral jet black bees along the Chattahoochee that are the most meanest things I have ever had the displeasure of working. Way worse then any Italian bee.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Moccasin said:


> Because we are TV fanatics! As I remember this all started out with stupid fake pulp horror films like "The swarm" and "Killer Bees"in 1972 a decade after the 1957 Brazilian dictatorship made up the Assassin bee story about professor Warwick Kerr training bees to kill military officials at night. TV gets lots of ratings with this crap.


Well I have proof that not only are there Africanized bees, there Killer Bees as well:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-killer-bees/n8622


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

...could it be that "Moccasin" and "Runswithbees" are one in the same?


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Why would someone make more than one account on this type of forum or on any forum ?? Called out for more attack bees yesterday. So what should these bees be called instead of Africanized? Do people feel or think its racist?? Is that the problem


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

AstroBee said:


> ...could it be that "Moccasin" and "Runswithbees" are one in the same?


LOL, reading the first page makes a lot more sense now, I think you sleuthed it out!


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Oh I also see it. maybe they were sitting in the same room. they are both from the same place. Strange, people would do such a thing for entertainment.


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I remember some years ago one of those anti neonics people had several aliases and was running threads single handedly. He was banned or moderated off, but later would pop back up with a new username, (and presumably IP) which would last till the language (which was very distinctive in it's rancour and style) made it obvious who he or she was.


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Oldtimer said:


> I remember some years ago one of those anti neonics people had several aliases and was running threads single handedly.


.... And let's not forget rrussell6870 & beehugheshoney (aka Robert Russell)


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

OK I don't believe in Killer bees. Gee I never had any forum just start calling people idiots and getting all freaked out and paranoid. I am not Runs with bees or a neonic anti but I am organic. Sorry I tried to make this forum have a little scientific debate.


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

You call your comments 'scientific', is that a joke? If it is, you are the greatest troll on BS.


----------



## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Moccasin said:


> I tried to make this forum have a little scientific debate.


I've been reading this thread from the beginning and have avoided jumping in, but how can you call bolstering one website versus the myriad of peer reviewed papers a scientific discussion?


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

So another incident occured. Called to a location fire department already there. Multiple stings of people walking down street and construction workers near area by. After some inquiry found out a person had hive there two days ago. Talked to him his hive was getting robbed so he took it home. This was a business sorry didnt mention that. So any way the robbers were attacking anybody and every body. Is this normal bee behavior? Or could assume that the robbers were an African or just really hostile feral hive located somewhere??


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Moccasin said:


> OK I don't believe in Killer bees. Gee I never had any forum just start calling people idiots and getting all freaked out and paranoid. I am not Runs with bees or a neonic anti but I am organic. Sorry I tried to make this forum have a little scientific debate.


Africanized bees are fake. ahhahaha :lpf:


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Dan P said:


> So another incident occured. Called to a location fire department already there. Multiple stings of people walking down street and construction workers near area by. After some inquiry found out a person had hive there two days ago. Talked to him his hive was getting robbed so he took it home. This was a business sorry didnt mention that. So any way the robbers were attacking anybody and every body. Is this normal bee behavior? Or could assume that the robbers were an African or just really hostile feral hive located somewhere??


From experience, I would say the stinging bees were some foragers left behind after the hive was moved.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

NatalieC said:


> africanized bees are not killer bees the cant kill u there mean thats why we call them killer bees but there not fake at all there real type of bee that make honey


?

Wayne


----------



## Runswithbees (Feb 1, 2012)

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-v...ome-beekeepers-believe-killer-bees-are-fraud/

This is old, but Dee Lusby thought like us, too, Moccasin. She was ridiculed, as well.


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Read the article and it appears there are 2 different lines of thought going here. One is that Africanised bees are just hype, and the other one proposed by Lusby is that Africanised bees are real but nothing new because she has documents proving importation to the US years ago.

Problem being, there are many kinds of African bees and she makes no mention of what particular type of African was imported years ago, some of them are not very aggressive and not the ones causing problems now. Even Brother Adam incorporated some African genetics into his bees.

Something of a contradiction has also become apparent. Dee has always denied that her bees are Africanised. Yet in that article she claims that African genetics have been in the US for many years, are in her area, but are beneficial and she will make no attempt to keep them out of her bees. So, which is true, they are there, or they are not there? Maybe depends what day it is.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Yes I agree it does matter what day it is. I ve determined that they are bi-polar some days more aggressive than others. Until the hive gets too big. And then mob mentality happens. But there are studies and a FABIS test possible to determine if africanized. Just got back from a I wanna save them except they sting everybody around my house, situation. I stopped counting at 12 stings thru the suit. So of course they didnt come home with me.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Here is some info for you.
http://www.apimondia.com/congresses/2001/Papers/275.pdf


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Runswithbees said:


> http://www.beesource.com/point-of-v...ome-beekeepers-believe-killer-bees-are-fraud/
> 
> This is old, but Dee Lusby thought like us, too, Moccasin. She was ridiculed, as well.


I would like you to go down to Mexico and Central America and talk to the beekeepers who gave up keeping bees as the Africanized bees progressed through their countries.

What is Dewey Caron's take on this? He is a Bee Academic that I trust and have faith in. He has spent decades working with Africanized bees in Central and South America.

http://www.amazon.com/Africanized-honey-Americas-Dewey-Caron/dp/0936028149


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oldtimer said:


> Read the article and it appears there are 2 different lines of thought going here. One is that Africanised bees are just hype, and the other one proposed by Lusby is that Africanised bees are real but nothing new because she has documents proving importation to the US years ago.
> 
> Problem being, there are many kinds of African bees and she makes no mention of what particular type of African was imported years ago, some of them are not very aggressive and not the ones causing problems now. Even Brother Adam incorporated some African genetics into his bees.
> 
> Something of a contradiction has also become apparent. Dee has always denied that her bees are Africanised. Yet in that article she claims that African genetics have been in the US for many years, are in her area, but are beneficial and she will make no attempt to keep them out of her bees. So, which is true, they are there, or they are not there? Maybe depends what day it is.


I believe that African bees were brought to the US by USDA Scientists back in the 1960s. Baton Rogue Experimental Station perhaps. Maybe that's what she means.


----------



## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

Looks like I'm late to the party.

It appears to me that the use of the word "fake" is part of the problem here. Was the original intent to say that using the term _afiricanized _is inaccurate?

I don't think that there's any doubt, founded in fact, that there are honeybees with similar defensive traits and other behaviors that share a common origin.


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Dan P said:


> Come to Arizona Ill show you some in my yard. Or if you prefer Ill see if I can ship you some. If bees attack you and follow you in a back of a truck at 50 miles an hour for one mile and still attack you when the driver stops. What would you call that ?


Honeybees cannot fly faster than 20 miles per hour! They also cannot follow a mile! And they cannot ever sustain a speed of 50 miles per hour for a mile. This is the kind of information that you ALWAYS get with killer bee propaganda. What about all those news reports about 100,000 stings from black clouds of killer bees, a beehive does not have but 65,000 bees including drones. If you use your own mind you will realize it is just fear mongering. I have kept bees in South Texas in the 80's and 90's. I endured the killer bee quarantines and regulations in the 90's. We were not allowed to move our bees north of certain counties and they stayed in cotton and soybean fields to get sprayed. The quarantines were dropped eventually and things were back to normal except for the new Varroa mites and African imported small hive beetles that came in 99. Since 1972 I was warned about the killer bees changing beekeeping and all the things done to prevent the migration with Operation Bee Net. Many of the scientist beekeepers I was fortunate enough to talk with told me "not to worry the Aficanized killer bee is all hype" and that is why Operation Bee Net was scrapped.


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> I believe that African bees were brought to the US by USDA Scientists back in the 1960s. Baton Rogue Experimental Station perhaps. Maybe that's what she means.


People have imported Italian queens into African countries and African countries have exported queens to many other countries outside of Africa. I also know people who have exported USA queens to Jamaica. Apis Mellifera is very popular much more so than Apis Cerana. I have also heard the USDA and Texas A&M played with some African countries imported queens but I don't know but what I heard about that one but I would tend to believe that could be true.


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Moccasin said:


> People have imported Italian queens into African countries and African countries have exported queens to many other countries outside of Africa. I also know people who have exported USA queens to Jamaica. Apis Mellifera is very popular much more so than Apis Cerana. I have also heard the USDA and Texas A&M played with some African countries imported queens but I don't know but what I heard about that one but I would tend to believe that could be true.


All these stories are great but when does the scientific discussion begin?

According to the U Florida IFAS Extension, Africanized bees entered South Texas in the early 1990's.
They say these bees can chase a disturbance a mile or more.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg113


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Runswithbees said:


> http://www.beesource.com/point-of-v...ome-beekeepers-believe-killer-bees-are-fraud/
> 
> This is old, but Dee Lusby thought like us, too, Moccasin. She was ridiculed, as well.


Thank you so much for that article. I believe Dee Lusby knows a whole lot more about bees and their behavior than any non beekeeper that just got a job for the money at some building making money crying wolf. I cannot believe I never saw that article before. THANK YOU. Everyone except you has been knocking me around over this and you have shown me that we are not alone here. From what I understand reading the Bush Bees site Michael Bush said also that he has had no real differences in the subspecies he has tried either. He says something about that in Races of bees I think. I would sure like to know Dee Lusby! She is a real bee charmer like you.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Moccasin said:


> People have imported Italian queens into African countries and African countries have exported queens to many other countries outside of Africa. I also know people who have exported USA queens to Jamaica. Apis Mellifera is very popular much more so than Apis Cerana. I have also heard the USDA and Texas A&M played with some African countries imported queens but I don't know but what I heard about that one but I would tend to believe that could be true.


And I knew a guy who raised and artificially inseminated some queens which he was going to take back to the CAR with him in his suit jacket pocket after he left an International Beekeeper's Conference in OH in 1985.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Moccasin said:


> Honeybees cannot fly faster than 20 miles per hour! They also cannot follow a mile! And they cannot ever sustain a speed of 50 miles per hour for a mile. ......


Do you know what hyperbole is?


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Nabber86 said:


> Do you know what hyperbole is?


I believe so it means hype, just like killer bees all just hype!


----------



## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> lets see this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucA4Ve4eKM
> 
> ...


Two things which make a huge difference:
-No smoke in the first video
-Hive is being opened into full sunlight.


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

tanksbees said:


> Two things which make a huge difference:
> -No smoke in the first video
> -Hive is being opened into full sunlight.


You are really observant! I wanted to say that sooo bad but didn't! Thanks. Yes not even a puff of smoke. I have seen much more fight in bees than that and yes that Was improper use of smoke. I suppose the person has a vested interest in terrorizing people about bees since I believe he makes a living removing honeybees from peoples houses.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

AstroBee said:


> ...could it be that "Moccasin" and "Runswithbees" are one in the same?



More like - "Moccasin" and "Acebird" are one in the same. :lpf::lpf:


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> And I knew a guy who raised and artificially inseminated some queens which he was going to take back to the CAR with him in his suit jacket pocket after he left an International Beekeeper's Conference in OH in 1985.


What do you mean? I do not understand. I know it is directed at me so I am figuring you must think by my saying I know someone who imported queens to Jamaica you don't understand the significance is why you did that. The significance of USA queens being sent to a beekeeper in the island of Jamaica is that Jamaica boasts they have no Africanized bees there. Since USA queens were shipped there it means that our Queens don't have anything that Jamaica recognizes as Africanized. What are you doing?


----------



## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

:scratch:


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Moccasin said:


> What do you mean? I do not understand. I know it is directed at me so I am figuring you must think by my saying I know someone who imported queens to Jamaica you don't understand the significance is why you did that. The significance of USA queens being sent to a beekeeper in the island of Jamaica is that Jamaica boasts they have no Africanized bees there. Since USA queens were shipped there it means that our Queens don't have anything that Jamaica recognizes as Africanized. What are you doing?


I did wonder what your statement meant and what it had to do with whether Africanized bees are fake or not. And I still do wonder. The only thing I would assume from hearing that someone in Jamaica had queens shipped to them is that they wanted them.


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

JUST Moccasin>>
what is the purpose of the discussion you started here?
do you have something to say or just in need of "talking" to people?
time to spit it out or start losing the audience.


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

clyderoad said:


> JUST Moccasin>>
> what is the purpose of the discussion you started here?


It was to get to the real point which is that varroa and SHB are fake! And the bees and their parasites are just constructs in the matrix!


----------



## josethayil (Jul 17, 2008)

Moccasin said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3IAZq-mGwY Here's your killer bee honey being harvested the same way its been harvested for thousands of years.


The bees shown in this video is not african bees. they are APis Cerana from the Asian Islands


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Well if there was such a thing as africanized bees I bet there mite count would be very low


----------



## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys

I think there were a few words left off of the original post.

>There are no killer bees. 

Should read: "There are no killer bees here". And maybe ",yet" should be also added for parts of AR. 

There are only two kinds of beekeepers when it comes to Africanized bees. And their experiences converge on the two words IF THEY:

- exist for those who haven/t worked them.
- want to continue beekeeping after having worked them.

-dm


----------



## mobe_45 (Mar 14, 2015)

clyderoad said:


> All these stories are great but when does the scientific discussion begin?
> 
> According to the U Florida IFAS Extension, Africanized bees entered South Texas in the early 1990's.
> They say these bees can chase a disturbance a mile or more.
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg113


Finally one person with proven facts. It was quite an interesting set of yakking. Maybe the term Africanized needs changed. But based on those who have personally experienced the said bees, I am inclined to accept that this particular strain is either more aggressive, more easily angered, or both. I feel for those who have them in their area.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

thanks Its a great challenge. in all manners.


----------



## phopkinsiii (May 4, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> lets see this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucA4Ve4eKM
> 
> ...


Great videos and I LOVE the way you light your smoker!


----------



## KiwiLad (May 18, 2015)

I'm wondering how Africanised bees would take to the new Flow Hive technology...


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

Hello all

I have been reading all comments on this thread and thought I may add my experience with the debated "Africanized Bee".
I live in Trinidad, "Part of the Caribbean" just east of Venezuela, I am a beekeeper for 4 years now and I hate to disappoint some of you but the only honey bee we have here is the Africanized honey bee. They are a smaller species than their European counterparts, and one would not dear approach a colony without a veil or bare handed. They are smaller not because of small cell wax foundation, as feral colonies are the same. We have conducted research here against European strains and the Africanized always over powered them. The aggressiveness of these bees has lead to very little mite populations if any, and SHB is practically non existent. Wax moths are only an issue with very weak colonies, which are usually destroyed by neighbouring colonies as they are quickly robbed out and killed. The drive to multiply causes these bees to swarm without warning and against any methods to reduce the likelihood of a swarm. As far as the flow hive technology is concerned, well we will not even be entertaining this method.

I welcome any individual on this thread opposing the idea to come join me in my bee yard for a day with these "fake" Africanized bees, and I know it is a late reply but I am new to the forum but welcome any discussion further.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

ChrisZ66 said:


> I welcome any individual on this thread opposing the idea to come join me in my bee yard for a day with these "fake" Africanized bees, and I know it is a late reply but I am new to the forum but welcome any discussion further.


Welcome to the forum and thank you for your valuable insight.


----------



## DmacShack (May 22, 2013)

ChrisZ66, In regard to the swarming issue, are your honey yields similar to European strains? What is the average yield there?


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

the honey yields are higher as the bees go out to forage earlier and stay out later, it is their genetics that they inherited from their true African counter parts to exploit resources when it is present as in Africa there is very little rainfall to produce the flowers for nectar.

To put it into beekeeping terms I have had single brood frame colonies draw out fill and cap a shallow super in 11 days. During a good honey flow I am forced to harvest every two weeks as the hives become honey bound very quickly.


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

Exact quantities of honey in terms of yield I will have to get for you.


----------



## phopkinsiii (May 4, 2014)

ChrisZ66 said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have been reading all comments on this thread and thought I may add my experience with the debated "Africanized Bee".
> I live in Trinidad, "Part of the Caribbean" just east of Venezuela, I am a beekeeper for 4 years now and I hate to disappoint some of you but the only honey bee we have here is the Africanized honey bee. They are a smaller species than their European counterparts, and one would not dear approach a colony without a veil or bare handed. They are smaller not because of small cell wax foundation, as feral colonies are the same. We have conducted research here against European strains and the Africanized always over powered them. The aggressiveness of these bees has lead to very little mite populations if any, and SHB is practically non existent. Wax moths are only an issue with very weak colonies, which are usually destroyed by neighbouring colonies as they are quickly robbed out and killed. The drive to multiply causes these bees to swarm without warning and against any methods to reduce the likelihood of a swarm. As far as the flow hive technology is concerned, well we will not even be entertaining this method.
> ...


Thanks for the input.
Do you have any tips or tricks for dealing with defensive bees? I've had a couple of hives get 'mean' by my standards. It takes a good deal of fun out of the work, but you may be used to it.


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

"Tips and Tricks" I like that one.

Usually we would not allow the colonies to grow over one deep brood box in size, but use multiple supers instead. Reason for this is the stronger the colony the more aggressive they seem to be towards the beekeepers and smaller colonies. This also allows us to quickly separate the colony into different parts, which seems to have a calming effect as it may cause confusion or a reduced pheromone to defend, I am not a scientist but that is just my observation. An abundance of smoke is used before opening the hives, we smoke them and allow up to 2 minutes which gives the bees time to intake honey and get "lazy" if you wish to use that word.

Vibrations and shadows are another contributing factor, they do not like vibrations at all and will make short work of a lawnmower or weed trimmer. Passing hands over the colony while it is open is a no go zone without smoke first.

We have ratings here which we use to categorize defensiveness much like tornado ratings F1 through F5, trust me I have dealt with a few F5s, that queen did not live long at all.

We manage to keep it fun, just have to learn to deal with them, much like a matador and a raging bull.


----------



## phopkinsiii (May 4, 2014)

ChrisZ66 said:


> "Tips and Tricks" I like that one.
> 
> Usually we would not allow the colonies to grow over one deep brood box in size, but use multiple supers instead. Reason for this is the stronger the colony the more aggressive they seem to be towards the beekeepers and smaller colonies. This also allows us to quickly separate the colony into different parts, which seems to have a calming effect as it may cause confusion or a reduced pheromone to defend, I am not a scientist but that is just my observation. An abundance of smoke is used before opening the hives, we smoke them and allow up to 2 minutes which gives the bees time to intake honey and get "lazy" if you wish to use that word.
> 
> ...


Good advice. I'm splitting a hive with two deeps tomorrow and will take your suggestions, especially to separate out the boxes and keep them covered before I move the frames to the nucs. My bees are pretty gentle, but even they get a little "stingy" after I've pulled and inspected all twenty frames.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Chris Z66. What is your desired hive size before placing honey supers on ? Ill be Private messaging you later for more details on your techniques and other observations of works best for you. I always have africanized or highly aggresive/defensive bees. Thanks Dan


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

Dan P. Our hive size is normally 8 fully drawn deep frames then we add supers on that.
We do not always run 10 frames but 9 for quicker access and room for the rapid expansion of the colony through newly emerging bees. They get overcrowded very quickly during a flow. I have some colonies with one deep and 5 supers on it.

We "sacrifice a super of two as the queen lays in them but 3 supers is plenty of honey in 12 days


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

ChrisZ66. thats good information thanks. It makes sense cause of overcrowding. I also was wondering what you do to try and prevent swarming issues.


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

swarming is always an issue here. Constant splitting moving the queen to a new box helps.

But they create so many swarms cells we destroy some else there are many Casts which weaken the colony beyond saving at times.

If we have need for queens elsewhere we would use some of these cells


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Yes right know I have excluders over the bottom board. But sometimes the virgins still squeeze thru. I try to keep them contained. Cause we both know requeening is pointless.


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

I would not say pointless but tricky. It is tricky because laying workers take over very quickly, this is something I am still working on.

I have requeened my colonies with success but from my own stock.

And yes excluders are pointless due to their smaller size.


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Isnt even your own stock partially africanized?


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

yes they are


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

@ChrisZ66 Do you find that since your bees swarm so much, that you need to kill off whole hives to maintain your hive count?


----------



## ChrisZ66 (Jun 15, 2015)

No I have not gotten to that stage as yet, as I am still growing so the more splits I get the better for me.

Starter Nucs are in high demand here as well so any excess would not be hard to sell off


----------



## phopkinsiii (May 4, 2014)

I think somebody already posted the reference from UF that nicely details the spread of AHB into North America. I'll link it here again because it's one of the more readable monographs I've seen: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg113
That paper references several entomological studies if you want to get really deep into the subject.

What I learned:
For the OP, there's considerable DNA evidence for the migration of AHB into North America. (He seems to have dropped off the thread, so maybe it was just the 2-carbon fragments talking.)
Attempts to back-cross AHB and European subspecies have been unsuccessful. The AHB traits seem to be persistent through matrilineal inheritance.
Nobody seems to really know yet what has slowed the spread of AHB northwards; whether it's cold intolerance, the need for a longer growing season, or just a pause and some wishful thinking on our parts.
As per ChrisZ66's posts, these bees can be successfully managed with some specific strategies. They have been in South America since their introduction in 1957.


----------



## greengage (Jul 6, 2015)

We have bees here in Ireland owned by Leprechauns, they are very elusive creatures but they have bees one was once known as 136 G9 after the hive she came from and she was recorded at flying downhill at speeds in excess of 125mph with a following wind


----------



## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

I’ve been working with Africanized bees for the last 24 years in Honduras. It kind of bugs me when someone says that Africanized bees are fake. My first beekeeping experiences were here in Honduras with these bees—as a Peace Corps volunteer. I stayed here have continued working with bees in one form or other ever since.

The bees in Honduras are nothing like the ones back home where I grew up in Wisconsin. I had the opportunity to work three seasons with commercial beekeepers in Wisconsin (JohnK and Sheri of BeeSource, just about 2000 hives at that time). I also have experience working with the bees in Jamaica during July of the last three years. The bees in Honduras are a whole different story. 

Bees in Wisconsin could get ornery, especially working them as a commercial operation. The idea was always to get in and out of the yard as quickly as possible—too many hives to check and never enough time. That means banging the boxes around and blowing bees out of the hives and what not when working/harvesting the bees. There would be bees all over the place, all over the air, but they wouldn’t follow you that far from the yard when you were done. They settled down fairly fast. And transporting semi-truck loads of bees to California with the entrances open—never work with Africanized bees. 

In Jamaica I would occasionally enter hives wearing shorts and flip flops—that would never happen in Honduras. Boots, long pants, suit and veil all the time.

And you can ask anyone here in Honduras about before and after Africanization and you’ll get a similar answer. They all mention the “abeja italiano” or Italian bee. It wasn’t uncommon for people to have a hive or two in their backyards before the Africanized bee.

When the Africanized bees finally came in the early 80s (“las abejas bravas” or ornery bees) beekeeping in Honduras went downhill fast. Beehives were sometimes burned because people didn’t want to deal with defensive bees. Everyone started hearing or having stories about chickens, dogs, horses or even people being stung to death. It still happens today. 

Check out my blog, “Musings on Beekeeping.” I posted something today on it about Africanized bees. I’ve had a draft of this post started for some time now, but this thread finally made me finish it—at least the first part. More musings are in the works for down the road a bit.

“Musings About Beekeeping with Africanized Bees”
http://musingsonbeekeeping.blogspot.com/2015/07/musings-about-beekeeping-with.html

----------
Tom


----------



## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

They are a sub-species, Apis Melliferra, var.,Scutella. Ya know, like bluejays, 3 kinds here, but all bluejays. There are wild black bees here, worse than the Aficanised, BUT.... The behavior of the hybrids here is very real. Here in Az., we have plenty. All they keep, in South Africa, is A.M. scutella, their local native, as they wreck hives of A.M.,mellifera, ligustrum, carnolian, ad nauseum. What is called a "race" of bees, are subspecies. Get yer facts straight, dont be a troll.


----------



## JonCotton (Jun 21, 2016)

Hi,

Your thread title is very misleading. If you could emphasis on what you mean, you'll get an educated answer from people that have experienced them. I don't know anything about them only what I've read as we don't have them in our country.


----------



## JonCotton (Jun 21, 2016)

My concern is how people are educated on these aggressive territorial bees. I think there is too much scaremongery involved and this isn't the way to educate the next generation. As a whole, bees aren't interested in humans unless they start poking sticks. It would be nice to be able to teach children the benefits of bees and not tying it with one brush to make them believe they are 'bad'. Maybe I should start a different thread on this??


----------



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

ye you should start a different thread with what you really want to say. Cause this is thread was started by someone else. Who doesnt agree with his original statement any more or just gave up the point??


----------



## Clairesmom (Jun 6, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> We had a bunch of bees down in south Texas a number of years ago. Ended up requeening the whole lot of them and getting them the heck out of there. I couldn't even begin to count all the fake stings I got trying to work them.


So, do the fake stings hurt as much as the real ones?


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Phantom pain.


----------



## deucetwins (Jun 29, 2016)

..


----------



## deucetwins (Jun 29, 2016)

Brad Bee said:


> Is there lead in the drinking water supply in Pope county AR?


No, but it is home to a nuclear reactor.


----------

