As a cabinetmaker with 25 years experience, I prefer staples when assembling frames.

 

Brad nails dont have much of a head so more prone to pull through. Staples dont have that problem and each has two shafts to reduce pull out. If you are stapling through the ears of the sidebars, it takes better aim if you are using staples rather than brads. If you get a combination nailer, you can use either. If you are putting large staples down thru the top bar into the end of the sidebars you might need two different sizes. Aw, get yourself the staple gun too;, never be under gunned!

 

Crown staplers are great brads pull through. Is was stapling sign post to a board. The staples were just a little too long. I had a time getting it loose from my workbench.

 

Titebond III to glue them up first., then 1" Staples with my pneumatic staple-gun.

 

OK. Since we've established that I should use staples. Would the 1/4" x 1 1/4" crown stapler be sufficient?

 

That's what I use. The smaller 1/4" crown works great for the frames. My gun will shoot finish nails OR staples. Staples do the trick!

What foundation (if any) are you using?

 

we use titebond with 1 1/4 staples. the most important one is the horizontal one thru the end bars. It is important to make quality frame.

 

This is all you need.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm

 

That's the one I have, and love it.

Tony P.

 

I use the 1/4 inch with success. But beware: when you shoot the staple through the end bar into the top bar, keep your finger out of the way. Several times the side staple has made contact with the top staple, and curved right up through the top bar. It only took once through the tip of my thumb for me to learn this lesson. Would like to save you the painful experience.

 

Wow! that is not a bad price either. Look for it on the Home Depot web site and it is pried at $109. I own both a frame and a finish nailer. the frame nailer cost over $400 and the finish just short of $400. I was was starting to think that, Man the cost of a stapler is going to require you make a lot of frames to gain any savings. I own a few Rigid tools and although not the best I have ever seen they are not cheaply made either.

 

I'm very new to the whole stapler scene, as the ones I've used in the past are spring loaded (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...N-5yc1v/R-100021099/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053). Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but the Ridgid link posted earlier is air powered and requires an air compressor, correct?

The spring loaded one, while it saves some time, still is slow. I'd prefer to upgrade, but don't know if I can swing a $200 stapler along with a $200-400 air compressor into my budget . . .

 

the Ridgid link posted earlier is air powered and requires an air compressor, correct?
The spring loaded one, while it saves some time, still is slow. I'd prefer to upgrade, but don't know if I can swing a $200 stapler along with a $200-400 air compressor into my budget . . .

Yes, you need a compressor with the Ridgid stapler. You can also go on Amazon and get a refurbished Ridgid for about $60.00 that works just as well. That's where I got mine. Look for a good refurbished compressor while your at it. They have some good deals.

 

I got my air stapler/nailer at Harbor Freight for about $49 (maybe less - I don't remember), and use it with a $99 compressor.

I'm lucky - in that I have a Harbor Freight location within 10 minutes of my home. Figure in about $30 of hose & fittings - and you're set. Keep your air tools clean, dry, and properly maintained - and they'll last you a LONG time.

 

A small pancake style compressor will work just fine. I bought a kit at Home Depot that had a compressor, framing nailer and 1/4" stapler for $199.00 but that's been several years ago.

 

I'm just a newbee getting ready for next year, but I like the 1/4"x1" crown staples for going down through the top bar into the side bars and for going through the side bars up into the top bar. I don't like the staples for attaching the bottom bar to the side bars due to too many blow outs...I've started using two nails hammered through the bottom bars up into the side bars and like the results much better. Basically staples topside and nails bottomside.

Ed

 

That is what I use with Tight-bond 3. I like the Rigid Stapler. I love to staple things. I love my stapler best one out there.

I get my staples from Harbor Freight. 13.99 bucks a box. They jam and break allot but, they are still less then the price from HD . So I am ahead of the game.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/r150fsarvu.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/5000-p...00-piece-1-1-8-eighth-inch-x-18-gauge-1-4-quarter-inch-crown-staples-37112.html

I don't like the staples for attaching the bottom bar to the side bars due to too many blow outs...

Get a better stapler and set the depth better.

 

Ed,

Try the 3/4 " or even the 1/2" length staple for the bottom bars. You won't have any blow outs if you adjust your depth shallow.
I hate to see you do all that extra work!

 

Good idea, Charlie. I don't like that extra work, either...it sure creates a bottle neck on my already slow frame assembly. I'm afraid there would be a lot of swapping going on, though, as I'm building one at a time. I need to build a jig and that would help things a lot...do all the tops, flip them over, swap out staples, and do the bottoms. Ok, now to find a spot to set up my tablesaw....

Ed

 

I feel that I need to comment because there are some misstatements in some of the posts. I use titebond III which is supposed to be waterproof. I use a staple gun & a brad nailer with a pancake compressor all from harbor freight. All for less than $120.00. The first brad nailer was bad and they exchanged it out. I detest having to buy things from China, but if I couldn't have bought them this cheap I would have continued to nail them by hand. I do not and will not use staples anywhere except down thru the top bar into the end bar. In my opinion the other areas are too small for staples and will split too easily or wind up stapling myself, or have them come thru and have to be pulled out. I have absolutley never had a problem with the frames coming apart since I started using tite bond. I have a small table that my compressor sits under. I have on top, a frame assembly jig (bought from Kelleys), my brad nailer, my staple gun, and my bottle of tite bond III. Most of you understand that it is the glue that is holding the frames together, and the brad/staple is merely the holding agent until the glue cures. I assemble 10 frames at a time without having to change brads and staples or pull out staples because of improper insertation. It is a very effective and speedy assembly process. I mean for $19.99 for the extra gun, why would you change ammunition in a gun, or handle your frames 2-3 times. I'm not that fond of assembling frames. I also use longer brads to assemble my boxes, also with titebond III, with absolutley no problems. If you don't want to buy Chinese the by all means get both guns in what ever brand you get, and good luck in finding any brand not made in China, or somewhere other than the USA. Good luck!!

 

Ed,

This is a great excuse to have two Rigids! It worked like a charm with my wife. My Porter Cable compressor has a split for two air hoses. I load one up for frames and the other for Inner/Outer covers, SBB's etc. C'mon, treat your self to all the tools you can get. I mean after all, it's for the bees! :thumbsup:

 

Valleyman,

I think everyone is aware that the glue does the bonding and not the staple. The staple is just a "clamp" until the glue dries. I've never met a beekeeper in person or on-line that didn't use Titebond III. If your getting blowouts you're not doing it correctly.

I do finish carpentry for a living and I don't buy cheap crappy tools. They may be fine for putting together thin frames every once in a while but when you have to trim out several houses, that's a different story. You get what you pay for. You already had to take one stapler back and it won't be long before you take your second one back.

 

The staple is just a "clamp" until the glue dries.

I think there needs to be some data given to show that it's not just glue holding the joints together.

www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn100.pdf

If you think it's glue doing all the work, I challenge you to make up a bunch of frames without any nails/staples (glue only) and tell us how well they hold up.

 

My stapler is my third hand. If I want to join two pieces at a ninety I put glue on it and tack it with a staple before drilling and counter boring for a screw. My next stapler will shoot the T50 staples for attaching the bottom bars. I'm not sure of the width but only one is required. It bridges the gap on slotted bottom bars.

 

Wish i had read this thread before i put my frames together... using a 16oz claw hammer was no fun :/

 

Charlie B,
I thought that I made it clear that the harbor freight freight stuff is not professional equipment. But if all you're going to do with it is put together some frames or bee boxes it will suffice. I don't think you can tell me too much about tools as I spent 42 years as a skilled tradesman (mechanical). Have farmed and worked on automobiles all my life. I am not disagreeing with you, quiet the opposite. You get what you pay for and pay for what you get, but as I said for limited use and for the money they will do the job. If I had much other use for them then they would have come from the USA. I would also remind you that almost all tools are coming from China, and most have been cheapened up except for the price. Such a shame that professionals have trouble finding excellent tools. I only buy USA name plate made vehicles, appliances, and any other big ticket items. Do you? It is getting harder and harder to find USA made products.
As far as the blowouts are concerned if you are driving a brad or especially a staple thru a bottom bar into an end frame are you going to tell me that you are good enough to never have one come thru? Give me a break the grain of the wood will steer one out occasionally.
Also if you will check ALL on here do not understand that it is the glue that holds, and not the nails, brads, or staples.

 

Charlie B,
As far as the blowouts are concerned if you are driving a brad or especially a staple thru a bottom bar into an end frame are you going to tell me that you are good enough to never have one come thru? Give me a break the grain of the wood will steer one out occasionally.

I've NEVER had a blowout using my Ridgid stapler fastening bottom bars to end frames. The reason is not because I have exceptional woodworking talent, it's because I use the appropriate length staple set at the appropriate depth. I use 3/4" length. Just enough to act as a clamp for the glue. The legs of the staple at that length greatly reduces the propensity to come out through the side of the end bars (if you hold your stapler straight and not at an angle), but long enough to make a good tight joint for the glue to set.

I apologize for the abrasiveness in my original post.

 

I would highly recommend the Harbor Freight guns. I have used mine hard and shot a good many staples through it and it still works fine.
mike

 

I can understand if your staples are short that you could do it without a mistake. Even though I understand completely that it is the glue that holds and not the staple or brad, I still have a tendency to use a length that can blow out. Mine will usually penetrate the end bar 1/2" or more. I have a tendency to over do a lot of things in life. Most of the time it serves me well as I detest doing things over. We all need to keep an open mind on this forum. I feel that I can learn something from most posters on here. Good luck!!

 

Good point, Barry. I think of glue/nails as a redundant system, each item covering the weaknesses of the other system. Either would work most of the time. In woodworking, I've seen glue joints fail and nails loosen. Together, they cover most of the problems of either. I used staples vertically and brads horizontally until I started needing a bunch of frames. Now, I use Pierco.

 

Glue has it's place for sure. I always like to point out that my 123 year old house is held together entirely with nails. The other factor is placement of nails. Installing nails/staples like this / or this | or this - will all play a role in the over all strength of the frame. If I had to only use one or the other, I'd opt for nails/staples. But the best is to use both, as you say.

 

I think something that is also being overlooked here is what finish of fastener is being used? In some of the past posts there have been links to certain brands of staples, and if you look they do not say they are galvanized. Most manufacturers produce 1/4" staples (and other sizes) that are either bright, galvanized or stainless steel. It seems like a waste of time to assemble frames (or other products) with out galvanized or stainless fasteners only to have them rust and fail. Usually if the fasteners do not say they are galvanized or stainless they are not.

 

It seems like a waste of time to assemble frames with out galvanized or stainless fasteners only to have them rust and fail.

Are frames exposed to enough moisture to really require galvanized? That's what I use for frames but am unsure weather it would make much difference. Maybe moisture and acids from the wood combined might rust them away?